WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.360 Hey, welcome to The Beta Show. Once again, my name is Jeff Reed with Stadia Church Planning, 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:12.000 Director of Digital Church Planting, and I am excited about The Beta Show here. We're going to 00:00:12.000 --> 00:00:15.880 bring in and talk about the topics here in a little bit. But remember, here at The Beta Show, 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:22.800 we answer online questions by people like you. So if you've got online questions, go ahead and text 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:31.680 them in to 484-324-8724, and we will cover them in a future episode of The Beta Show. We are doing a 00:00:31.680 --> 00:00:39.220 deep dive here in The Beta Show in the coming weeks, diving into digital Easter, how to have an effective 00:00:39.220 --> 00:00:45.260 Easter coming up. And so check for a lot of those episodes and more information coming here through 00:00:45.260 --> 00:00:50.900 The Beta Show. Also, hey, Stadia, we're doing digital learning communities, helping churches like yours 00:00:50.900 --> 00:00:57.300 learn to thrive, grow, and multiply digitally. We had a number of learning communities just open up here 00:00:57.300 --> 00:01:02.200 in January. We've got more opportunities in February. So for more information on that, seriously, 00:01:02.700 --> 00:01:07.520 like developing a digital strategy that complements what's happening in the physical space so that your 00:01:07.520 --> 00:01:12.960 church achieves the goals, the missions that it's calling itself, that God's calling you to do. 00:01:13.060 --> 00:01:18.520 Like, we want to help you do that digitally, physically and digitally. So check out 00:01:18.520 --> 00:01:25.160 stadiachurchplanting.org slash digital for more information there. So once again, here for The 00:01:25.160 --> 00:01:30.780 Beta Show, we're bringing in co-host Ray Diarmus, who's busy texting away on the phone. Thank you for 00:01:30.780 --> 00:01:37.760 that. I'm retweeting this entire deal. I am sharing it right now. I know. 00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:42.560 My heart goes out to that. Way to look down at the exact wrong time. That was beautiful. 00:01:42.560 --> 00:01:48.060 Hey, and I'm excited about today's guest that we're bringing in. We're bringing in Patrick Holden, 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:54.320 lead pastor from Nuvo Church. Now, I am super excited about this church plant. It's part of the 00:01:54.320 --> 00:02:00.840 stadia family. And this guy is on fire up in the Ohio area, has been doing phenomenal ministry in this 00:02:00.840 --> 00:02:08.060 COVID season digitally, and now is moving digital. They just had their first pop-up service this past 00:02:08.060 --> 00:02:12.880 weekend. And so maybe, Patrick, you're just maybe 10 seconds, 20 seconds. Tell us a little bit about 00:02:12.880 --> 00:02:13.380 yourself, man. 00:02:14.100 --> 00:02:19.720 Yeah. So my wife and I, along with 11 other people, including my two college roommates, we all moved to 00:02:19.720 --> 00:02:25.220 Columbus this past June, planted a church, mostly by reaching out to people on Facebook and asking 00:02:25.220 --> 00:02:28.960 them to be our friend. So that's how we did it. We built a launch team by doing that. And like you 00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:35.920 said, we just started meeting in real life, in person, at a hotel ballroom this past week. It was 00:02:35.920 --> 00:02:40.040 really great. So everything worked too. Most, most everything production-wise. So it was fun. 00:02:41.460 --> 00:02:45.440 Patrick's no stranger to the church digital or to stadia, but through the church digital, 00:02:45.440 --> 00:02:49.980 we've done a number of podcasts with him talking about like that, that engagement strategy, 00:02:50.060 --> 00:02:54.520 utilizing Facebook messenger, number of, of other, I know we've had John for other topics. I can't 00:02:54.520 --> 00:03:00.400 remember what the other one was. Oh, worship, how to have a more dynamic worship service. So we 00:03:00.400 --> 00:03:06.680 definitely want to, you know, check out his stuff and what's happening over there. So, hey, Ray's having 00:03:06.680 --> 00:03:11.640 some tech issues. We'll figure Ray out later. He'll come back around. But for today, the topic that we 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:18.520 wanted to hit with the beta show here is tips for better speaking online. And so even as a, one of the 00:03:18.520 --> 00:03:25.060 things that I love about Patrick is this fresh approach that he takes towards things. And so it's not 00:03:25.060 --> 00:03:30.800 necessarily repeating what was, uh, and maybe some of the physical practices, but really looking at it 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:35.860 from the digital first and carrying it over. And so there's a lot of this that we're really wanting 00:03:35.860 --> 00:03:40.460 to get into here with the beta show today. So Patrick, and as we're bringing it back in, but Patrick, 00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:43.240 maybe just get us started here. What, uh, what are you thinking? 00:03:43.660 --> 00:03:47.920 Well, thanks so much for having me back. It's so much fun. I love what you guys are doing. We've, 00:03:48.140 --> 00:03:51.700 our team has been learning from it a ton over the last year, I guess, year and a half now, 00:03:51.780 --> 00:03:55.920 what kind of greatest we met. Um, and so, yeah, I'll tell you the way that some of this constant 00:03:55.920 --> 00:04:00.860 came about, Jeff is, uh, I was driving around one day and I don't, I mean, I don't only speak for 00:04:00.860 --> 00:04:05.020 every speaker that was speaking live before, but you know, in the middle of a pandemic and the way 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:10.960 that so many churches had to shift, uh, and shift so quickly in the ways that we did, um, it was 00:04:10.960 --> 00:04:16.040 difficult. I don't know that I had recognized how difficult maybe it was for me, even just going 00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:21.220 like, Hey, I'm going to be speaking in front of a camera or a lens or an iPhone. Or, uh, at one point 00:04:21.220 --> 00:04:25.340 we were living in Michigan. You'll appreciate this. We, we had the backdrop for our first service. 00:04:25.340 --> 00:04:29.260 And then we had this camera that somebody had given us, but the lens didn't zoom. So we could 00:04:29.260 --> 00:04:33.280 set it outside of the window. So that's how we filmed our first message outside of the window, 00:04:33.360 --> 00:04:38.880 kind of coming in church planet life. It's pretty great. Um, so I just, I just, I just started like 00:04:38.880 --> 00:04:42.000 going, Oh, it's kind of, it's kind of difficult to grieve some of that. And then also trying to 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:45.280 process through, you know, what are some of the things that I want to make sure that I take 00:04:45.280 --> 00:04:50.640 away, even as we start doing some live speaking now, and we're going to still be digital at the 00:04:50.640 --> 00:04:54.400 same time. Now there's two different streams that are flowing in the way that I'm going to communicate 00:04:54.400 --> 00:04:59.500 now. And as much as I wish that they were exactly the same, they were very different. And so, uh, 00:04:59.500 --> 00:05:03.240 what I was going to do is kind of talk a little bit about some of that and, uh, and kind of get 00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:07.100 after that. So I'll tell you that for me, at least the way that I've been processing this, 00:05:07.160 --> 00:05:11.440 probably the biggest learning for me, uh, when it comes to kind of digital content development 00:05:11.440 --> 00:05:15.840 and speaking online is really beginning the strategic process of writing a little bit 00:05:15.840 --> 00:05:20.300 differently first. And so what I did is I put in my notes, I said this, one of the things that I had 00:05:20.300 --> 00:05:25.400 to shift away from was just the amount of content that I was communicating at one time and getting 00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:31.340 really comfortable, uh, getting to the main idea as quick and as concise as I possibly could. Now, 00:05:31.380 --> 00:05:35.940 even a year and a half ago, you guys know this a year and a half ago, people were probably looking 00:05:35.940 --> 00:05:40.440 at more content that they're probably even looking at now. There was this influx of content on Twitter 00:05:40.440 --> 00:05:45.140 and YouTube and Facebook and every church started putting out stuff. Um, and then everybody, 00:05:45.260 --> 00:05:48.700 you probably remember this, remember this phase where every pastor also started doing interviews 00:05:48.700 --> 00:05:51.840 on Instagram. Do you remember this? And then that lasted for about two and a half months and they 00:05:51.840 --> 00:05:57.440 kind of fizzled out, you know? And, um, and so there's just this influx of content. And now what 00:05:57.440 --> 00:06:01.360 I, you guys are probably seeing this too. Now what we're seeing is like really concise, 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:08.140 specific main ideas, uh, in, in, in kind of like a thread-based format. Um, and I think I've been 00:06:08.140 --> 00:06:12.840 trying to be a student of that approach a lot. There's a guy, uh, who's a writer named James Clear. 00:06:12.840 --> 00:06:17.620 You may know this. A lot of people may know this. What he does is he'll tweet and a lot of people do this, 00:06:17.620 --> 00:06:22.440 but I saw it through him. He'll tweet, but he'll tweet in a thread-like format where it'll be kind of 00:06:22.440 --> 00:06:27.480 one main idea that hook you. And then all the way through, there'll be like 20 more. Um, and I, I think 00:06:27.480 --> 00:06:33.080 for me, what I've been trying to work on is shifting as much as I can towards, uh, points or main ideas. 00:06:33.080 --> 00:06:39.800 There are 280 characters long that I can thread throughout a message and kind of approach it in that way. Uh, and I think if, 00:06:39.800 --> 00:06:45.080 if the main idea is really good, then all of a sudden now you have, uh, you kind of expound on it throughout 00:06:45.080 --> 00:06:50.280 the thread. Now, what we used to do, and you guys probably did this too, is, uh, you were Andy Stanley's 00:06:50.280 --> 00:06:54.440 communicating for a change. It's a phenomenal book. Like every pastor should read it. If you haven't read 00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:59.400 it, it's great. Um, but the approach there was, I'm going to, I'm going to intro things and then I'm 00:06:59.400 --> 00:07:03.240 going to give you a lot of tension. Then I'm going to solve it with scripture, give you some application. 00:07:03.240 --> 00:07:08.440 And I think that really works great for a lot, but now in the age of so much content, 00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:14.440 we don't get people's attention long enough to create the intro and attention like, like we used 00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:18.840 to. Um, and so I think for me, what I've been kind of trying to work on is how do I get to the main 00:07:18.840 --> 00:07:24.920 idea as quick and as concise as possible? And then if I have more content, how do I make that content 00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:30.440 three or four or five or six or seven, uh, other kind of pieces of things that I can put out? I think 00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:35.240 that's a new thing that started over the last year, um, with communicators and content creators 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.440 is you have these ideas now that you can have so much more to like with, uh, because you can create 00:07:40.440 --> 00:07:43.560 so many more things with it. And so that's one of the things I've been kind of processing through is 00:07:43.560 --> 00:07:48.920 how do you, how do you get to the main idea as quick and as concise as you possibly can? So yeah, 00:07:49.720 --> 00:07:54.120 that's great. And it's very difficult to do Patrick. I mean, and you know, I've definitely seen that 00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:57.880 in your teaching as I followed some of the stuff that Nuvo has done. And so I think that's amazing. 00:07:58.200 --> 00:08:04.440 Um, now how in the world do you bring about funny into a lot of what you're doing? Like, 00:08:04.440 --> 00:08:07.880 especially engaging with the screen. And I've talked about this with a lot of communicators. 00:08:07.880 --> 00:08:12.840 They love the feedback off of the live audience, even with comedians. This is a hard time because 00:08:12.840 --> 00:08:18.040 they enjoy, like I saw Kevin Hart do his special from his house because he was so desperate to have 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:25.880 some kind of audience in front of him to feed off of that he opened up his own home. So talk to you. 00:08:26.440 --> 00:08:31.160 Well, I laughed too. Uh, so you said, Kevin Hart, I saw Nate Margazzi at a drive-in theater. 00:08:31.160 --> 00:08:35.160 I don't know if you know Nate Margazzi. He's my favorite too. And so there's like hundreds of cars 00:08:35.160 --> 00:08:39.400 and we, you sit outside and it was cold and we watched it. And I just thought he would make these 00:08:39.400 --> 00:08:44.520 jokes that were really funny, but there's no crowd to start the laughter. And so nobody was really 00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:49.640 like, it is a different kind of a kind of flex in the way you do it. Um, so what, what I'm telling 00:08:49.640 --> 00:08:54.440 people now, everyone's talking to what I'm trying to tell people now is the, the more that you can 00:08:54.440 --> 00:08:59.640 predetermine the funny moments of your messages or your talks or your content, the better off you're 00:08:59.640 --> 00:09:05.000 going to be. And the reason that I would say it that way is because, um, I think it allows you to 00:09:05.000 --> 00:09:08.760 know that I've got a few things that I'm pretty confident are going to be finding the message. 00:09:08.760 --> 00:09:12.680 And then as I'm giving it, as I'm reading off of a prompter, as I'm, you know, 00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:16.840 kind of given whatever message or talk that I'm going to give, that allows me to actually be more 00:09:16.840 --> 00:09:20.600 present because I know that I've got a few points somewhere else in the message. You know, like it 00:09:20.600 --> 00:09:24.680 feels a lot better to do that. Now, what you were saying, what a lot of speakers I think struggle 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:30.760 with, including me is I would rather be funny in the moment and play off of the audience. And it's 00:09:30.760 --> 00:09:35.240 different when there's just a camera, but on the flip side of that, the comedians that you and I 00:09:35.240 --> 00:09:42.600 both love so much, they've pre-planned these jokes and they work them out and they, they say them in 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:48.040 a timed fashion, kind of moving forward. Comedians get that you can pre-plan funny, right? It's harder 00:09:48.040 --> 00:09:51.800 for a lot of us who are pastors who are speaking lives to do that. But I think there is a discipline 00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:55.320 there. Uh, that's really important. The other thing that I would say too, is it's also important 00:09:55.320 --> 00:10:00.200 to know that not all funny is the same kind of funny, right? Now, if you watch like an office episode, 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.240 I guess we weren't going to make it through this without me referencing the office, by the way, 00:10:03.240 --> 00:10:10.600 like when you think about the office in particular, there's, there's multiple types of funny within 00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:13.800 it. So I would say like the thing that most people talk about is like the laugh out loud, 00:10:13.800 --> 00:10:17.880 you know, belly laugh kind of funny. And you need a few of those for sure. Um, but the thing that I'm 00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:22.040 trying to do more often is how do I make somebody actually like chuckle, right? How do I, how do I get 00:10:22.040 --> 00:10:27.400 like 10 or 12 chuckle laughs, uh, throughout the talk? And you can do that through, you know, memes. 00:10:27.400 --> 00:10:30.920 You can do that through like the Bernie Sanders thing that just happened. I mean, come on, 00:10:30.920 --> 00:10:35.080 there are so many chuckle laughs that are just floating around and I mean that they might have 00:10:35.080 --> 00:10:40.520 already seen, but seeing it again is also going to give them kind of a chuckle. Um, I think that's 00:10:40.520 --> 00:10:45.080 one of the things that if I can bake in as much of that and feel confident as that, and then now have 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:51.240 a laugh out loud funny as well. Um, the other part too is, and this is kind of hard to communicate 00:10:51.240 --> 00:10:56.920 over, you know, like a digital talk, but we all know the guy who sits in the last row and he's sitting 00:10:56.920 --> 00:11:03.080 like arms crossed in the back, kind of like this waiting for you to be funny enough for him to care. 00:11:03.080 --> 00:11:06.200 Right. It's a little bit of like the honey badger approach. You know, there's a little bit of that 00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.520 sort of thing going on. I make that reference. We just did. And so there's a little bit of that. 00:11:10.520 --> 00:11:14.440 It's live. It's too late now. It's already, it's already out there. Honey badger. You're welcome. 00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:18.840 You can't believe it. There you go. Yeah. I'm just kind of laughing. Like as a communicator, 00:11:18.840 --> 00:11:22.840 that's who I'm preaching to. That's who I want to talk to. That's who I want to kind of bring. 00:11:22.840 --> 00:11:27.800 Um, and that guy is still watching, hopefully, even though he might be sitting next to his wife 00:11:27.800 --> 00:11:33.240 on the couch watching, and he's still probably doing this. There is humor that I think is not 00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:39.000 even geared towards getting a laugh, but it's specific towards making that person lean in. Right. 00:11:39.000 --> 00:11:44.840 And so I, I try to put in specific types of humor about the talk that that the end goal is just for 00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:49.240 the person to uncross their arms and, and kind of do that. So I did that the other night. I did like 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:55.400 a new girl joke that I knew 20% of the room would like 80% of the room either wouldn't like or wouldn't 00:11:55.400 --> 00:12:01.640 get, but I was really going after the person who was also probably not watching TV and the night 00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:04.680 before, you know what I'm saying? Like, I'm trying to kind of go after that a little bit. 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:11.160 What was the new girl joke? I am a Schmidt fan. Schmidt is my guy. So I need to know what 00:12:11.160 --> 00:12:16.840 the new girl joke was. So I, okay. So I love, I love the new girl too. I love Schmidt. Winnie the 00:12:16.840 --> 00:12:20.840 bitch though is still my favorite. What I did is there's that scene where he says, I love you, 00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:23.160 where Nick says, I love you the first time. You remember this? Yeah. 00:12:23.160 --> 00:12:29.160 And that's the limbo. And so he says it and he just stares. And then she just pulls up the finger 00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:34.120 guns and they just drive away. And so I was talking about like, when Peter speaks up and says, 00:12:34.120 --> 00:12:37.480 like, I'm going to go out on the water towards Jesus. And I'm like, as soon as you say that, 00:12:38.040 --> 00:12:41.160 like, you just regret it immediately. Like, why would I say that? I don't know. 00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:46.600 And so I played that. And then we ended with a frame of Nick's face right after he said it. 00:12:46.600 --> 00:12:51.480 It was great. You know, like people got it enough. So, yeah, that's good. That's really good. And 00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:54.840 like you said, it's niche. It pulls in a certain audience, which I think is tough. 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:59.480 Yeah. What, what's the balance when you're doing this? So like you love new girl, 00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:04.040 uh, are you assuming the audience does? And so you're pulling like your type of humor and reflecting 00:13:04.040 --> 00:13:09.000 it on how much of you are trying to identify like the one, the person in your audience you're 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:11.320 reaching. What's, what's that balance when you're coming up with this humor? 00:13:11.320 --> 00:13:15.720 So I'll tell you, and I might, I think I might have said a version of this on the last time we talked 00:13:15.720 --> 00:13:22.520 series. I, I, I am a 30 something white dude in Columbus, Ohio. I don't have any context for 00:13:22.520 --> 00:13:26.680 African-American women in their fifties. I don't know how to make those. But I have a team of people 00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:33.240 that I run stuff by including humor. So I'm mining for that throughout the week and asking people. 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.080 And I'll ask people that even in conversations seem to be funny in those different demographics. 00:13:37.640 --> 00:13:41.720 So this sounds really embarrassing. There are times I have to study what the, what the, what the 00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.400 reference is enough to be able to make the joke, even if I've never seen the thing, you know? 00:13:46.120 --> 00:13:49.720 And so, so I'm trying to balance it. So I would say like the chuckle thing that I would say, 00:13:49.720 --> 00:13:53.160 I'm not trying to get massive laughs throughout whatever I'm doing, but I would, I would say, 00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:57.400 I'm trying to make enough to where there's enough people in those categories that would know it. 00:13:57.400 --> 00:14:00.760 And I don't think there's a better way than just asking people, or are they watching what 00:14:00.760 --> 00:14:06.520 they think is funny? The fact that Ray likes Schmidt, right? I can, I'd be like, okay, there, there, 00:14:06.520 --> 00:14:11.240 me and Ray are very similar. Like we both know if I make a Schmidt reference versus a Winnie the 00:14:11.240 --> 00:14:16.360 Bish reference, it's going to hit people differently. And I think you're probably into that. So yeah, 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.680 that's how I do it. But I'm, I'm more parks and rec. I literally watched an episode this morning. 00:14:20.680 --> 00:14:25.720 I had it on the, in the TV. So like that, that's just more, more of my speed, I guess, 00:14:25.720 --> 00:14:27.560 but well done here. My wife loves New Girl. 00:14:27.560 --> 00:14:32.680 She loves New Girl. Awesome. Hey, Patrick, what else you got, man? This is great. 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:37.960 So I would say the other thing too, that's very unique about digital communication right now 00:14:37.960 --> 00:14:42.440 is a lot of us have frameworks that we worked in when it comes to live speaking. I referenced Andy's 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:47.160 book, Communicating for Change, it's a phenomenal framework. And I think a lot of that still applies. 00:14:47.160 --> 00:14:52.200 I mean, there's a lot of others, but right now, I think there is a framework that would 00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:56.360 say, we're going to, I think there's an approach with YouTubers in particular, they give away a 00:14:56.360 --> 00:15:01.480 little bit more information in the beginning to hook you. And then they kind of pull like the thread 00:15:01.480 --> 00:15:06.360 out a lot longer. And then they solve it in the last five seconds. And so I saw this quote, 00:15:06.360 --> 00:15:12.200 I wish I could remember exactly who said it, but it says, describe the video's value in the first five 00:15:12.200 --> 00:15:16.520 seconds. What are you going to get out of this video in five seconds? And that could be a quick 00:15:16.520 --> 00:15:20.200 statement. It could be a quick thing. Describe the video's value in the first five seconds, 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:25.640 and then ask a question that you don't fully and finally resolve until the last five seconds. 00:15:25.640 --> 00:15:31.080 Now, this is most YouTube videos that are kind of going out there and that are massive in a talk, 00:15:31.080 --> 00:15:34.680 right? This is kind of saying, Hey, if you're going to listen to me, if you're going to pull up the 00:15:34.680 --> 00:15:38.920 screen and you're going to stay with me throughout this, I need to give you in the first five seconds, 00:15:38.920 --> 00:15:43.000 something that's going to catch your attention. And then I'm going to keep you with me as long 00:15:43.000 --> 00:15:48.280 as I can until the last five seconds. So in terms of that framework, I would say it's adjusting the 00:15:48.280 --> 00:15:52.600 way that we think about tension and release and tension and resolve to approach it in a little bit 00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:56.840 different way. So I said that I said, describe the video's value in the first five seconds, 00:15:56.840 --> 00:16:02.840 create and then resolve smaller tensions throughout the talk, right? So, you know, when I was kind of 00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:07.400 coming up through learning how to speak, you know, I would spend 10 minutes on just creating tension with 00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:13.000 people and then resolve that tension and then give advocates. But I think in a digital world, 00:16:13.000 --> 00:16:18.760 in a way that we format now, I think you're giving tension and release constantly. So it's a lot more 00:16:18.760 --> 00:16:23.560 work and figuring out how do I, how do I get your attention, resolve it, but not fully resolve it to 00:16:23.560 --> 00:16:28.280 keep you going with me. And I think that kind of framework, that kind of approach to it is actually 00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:33.560 what's going to keep people kind of with you and staying with you throughout the duration of your content. 00:16:33.560 --> 00:16:38.120 So that's the way that I'm trying to approach it now. But, and that's a lot more difficult in some ways. 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:43.880 Real quick within that, can you talk about content duration? Because that to me is one of the biggest 00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:48.520 things for online, especially a lot of people, like I know that YouTube and Facebook are favorite 00:16:48.520 --> 00:16:53.720 algorithms that want to keep you trapped in longer, but sometimes for a person that can be really 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.080 disengaging. Whereas a sermon could really just be split up into two and keep me engaged. Like if I'm 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:03.480 really that engaged, I'll watch part two right afterwards. Can you talk about how you format some of your content? 00:17:03.480 --> 00:17:09.640 That's great. Absolutely. So I think for me, I agree there, there's content that's longer that you want to 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:14.120 see shorter. That's great. Part of it is coming to grips with how interesting are you in front of a camera? 00:17:14.120 --> 00:17:19.400 Like at the end of the day, there's, you just have to be ruthlessly honest about saying I can hold people's 00:17:19.400 --> 00:17:25.000 attention and your wife will probably tell you, right? That you need somebody that will actually tell you the answer to that question. 00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:30.200 So I would say at least for us, we've experimented with a couple of different links. So we've done like 00:17:30.200 --> 00:17:34.200 five minute segments to see how well those are. And you can actually track those. You guys know that you 00:17:34.200 --> 00:17:39.240 can track, see how long people retain. We'll do the longer service. Typically, I'll do about a 20, 00:17:39.240 --> 00:17:44.920 25 minute talk there, but that's a lot more graphic heavy than what we would do in five minutes. 00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:48.920 And so we're kind of approaching those. Those are the two that I think we've probably experimented with the 00:17:48.920 --> 00:17:54.440 most. But part of that, I think you just have to figure out how interesting are you. The other part too, 00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:59.080 that you can help with is going, and when I watch a talk online, which is terrible to say out loud, 00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:05.240 I rarely watch the whole talk. I will scan for the highlighted points. It's like you read a blog. 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:10.200 I'm watching a talk like I read a blog. I'm looking for the headlines. I'll scroll through an Andy 00:18:10.200 --> 00:18:15.720 talk and just find the quotes on the big TV, you know, whatever that, you know, I want to say that. 00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:21.320 And then I'll stop and listen if that point is interesting. So again, I think it gets back to 00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:25.960 how well are you creating this concise statements and pull people in. That helps you. But knowing that 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:32.520 very few people are sitting down for 20, 25, 30, 40 minutes to watch you say words in front of a lens. 00:18:32.520 --> 00:18:36.440 So I think. What do you think? Do you guys find that too? 00:18:37.160 --> 00:18:43.480 For me, and this isn't even an ADD thing. A lot of people want to blame this on ADD or something along 00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:47.960 those lines. But to me, shorter, punchy content, like you said, that gets directly to the point really 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:53.400 hits me a lot better than needing a lot of flower to speak to even get there. It's one of the things 00:18:53.400 --> 00:18:56.760 that I've appreciated from communicators, like you mentioned, Andy, that he's giving you the tension 00:18:56.760 --> 00:19:00.280 right up front. He's giving you the topic and he's even giving, he's even giving you like a piece of 00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:04.200 the answer, but then he's giving you like a solid breakdown and leading you down a path to the 00:19:04.200 --> 00:19:09.400 ultimate revelation of the full answer. That, that to me is a lot better in terms of keeping me engaged. 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:15.560 But even then, if I can get, if I can get there in five to 10 minutes, I'll prefer that over 25 to 30 00:19:15.560 --> 00:19:19.880 minutes, even in a biblical lesson. It's one of the things I love the most about the Bible project, 00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:24.680 if you think about it, the Bible project, they're, they're crafting these airtight videos. I mean, 00:19:24.680 --> 00:19:29.000 they're airtight, giving you a lot of theology, but keeping you engaged the entire time. It's one 00:19:29.000 --> 00:19:33.160 of the things that I come to appreciate. Going with that type of format, you know, 00:19:33.160 --> 00:19:37.160 it's where it's a little shorter, some of this punchier stuff. It definitely gives more opportunity 00:19:37.160 --> 00:19:42.120 to ask engaging questions, you know, almost back to like this master teacher format that was popular 00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:46.600 a couple of decades ago. Hey, let me, let me communicate for, for three to five minutes with it. 00:19:46.600 --> 00:19:52.120 Now break up and, and, and talk about it and starting to utilize that maybe within chat rooms, 00:19:52.120 --> 00:19:57.320 maybe within, um, you know, other platforms that allow some of that breakup technology to 00:19:57.320 --> 00:20:02.360 break up into separate groups, starting to move away from isolation, starting to get people to now 00:20:02.360 --> 00:20:07.560 dialogue, not just sit and stare at a screen or sit and stare at a person, exude their spiritual 00:20:07.560 --> 00:20:12.600 gifts, but own it by, by talking through it. So definitely love some of the, the conversation 00:20:12.600 --> 00:20:15.640 that that's happening here. So, um, what's next? What, what do you have? 00:20:16.680 --> 00:20:20.040 The other thing I would say about this, when it comes to specifically developing content, 00:20:20.040 --> 00:20:23.880 and then I think this is, uh, this is something to really remember, especially the punchier that you 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:28.600 get and the more concise you get is how do you make it human, right? You've got to make the message 00:20:28.600 --> 00:20:34.520 that you're giving as human as possible. It's very easy in the digital world to create something that 00:20:34.520 --> 00:20:39.800 looks really great. It's easy to create things that are punchy and shareable, but it's very difficult to 00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:45.400 actually engage the heart as you're doing that. Um, and so I, I put, I actually put this up, 00:20:45.400 --> 00:20:50.280 this question up anytime I'm writing content nowadays, and I'm asking the question, how do I make 00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:55.480 a human connection over the digital medium that I'm trying to engage with? How do I make it as human 00:20:55.480 --> 00:21:00.120 as possible? Um, because we have to work to not just be blended in with the screen, right? It can be 00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:03.960 very easy because you know that most people, a lot of people are multitasking as they watch you. What's 00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:08.840 going to draw them into you as a human being and kind of pull them into that content is you being 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:14.760 vulnerable and you being open and honest and you, uh, being authentic and not just a personality on 00:21:14.760 --> 00:21:19.400 screen. Right. Um, and so I, I put in my notes, I said that we have to work really hard to make the 00:21:19.400 --> 00:21:24.360 two-dimensional feel like a three-dimensional human experience. And I'm kind of working across the 00:21:24.360 --> 00:21:29.640 table, uh, from you as much as I can. Right. Uh, and so for me, I, I do that. There's a couple of kind of, 00:21:29.640 --> 00:21:33.960 now these are a little bit cheesy, so not saying you should do this. This is what I do to help me 00:21:33.960 --> 00:21:37.400 kind of keep in mind that there are other people on the side of the screen. Uh, there have been times 00:21:37.400 --> 00:21:42.760 where I will take a picture of a person that I hope watches and put it right next to the lens. So I can 00:21:42.760 --> 00:21:47.720 remember that I'm talking to another human on the other side of that lens. Um, oftentimes in my notes, 00:21:47.720 --> 00:21:52.120 I've been doing this for a long time, but especially in this season, or if I'm reading from a prompter, 00:21:52.120 --> 00:21:55.640 uh, at some point in the prompter in parentheses or in a different color, something like that, 00:21:55.640 --> 00:22:00.200 I'll, I'll put a name or a set of names or people that I'm, I'm hoping to specifically 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:05.640 communicate this particular point too. Um, and so I'll, I'll actually do that quite a bit. Um, 00:22:05.640 --> 00:22:09.960 and then for me and my prep and my prayer time is doing that as well. I pray specific names over 00:22:09.960 --> 00:22:13.720 this content. Now, again, that might be overboard. You might be better at that than me. I mean, 00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:17.800 I'm an Enneagram age. I have all the weird mess that comes with that, but I think for me, 00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:22.920 well, how do I make sure, uh, that I'm, I'm not just a good communicator online, 00:22:22.920 --> 00:22:27.960 but I'm genuinely making a human connection within schedule. So yeah. 00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:32.280 Can we actually do a broadcast or have a conversation about church and not talk about 00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:38.200 the Enneagram? Like, is it impossible? I was just, even earlier today, I was like, 00:22:38.200 --> 00:22:43.640 this is like the, the, the, it's almost a borderline cult. How, how much the, the Enneagram idea 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:47.320 has come into play. My dog is jumping into the broadcast in real time. 00:22:47.320 --> 00:22:53.560 Yeah. Audience, little Ray. Yes. She's, she's really sweet. This probably means that she needs 00:22:53.560 --> 00:22:57.880 to go out and go to the bathroom. Oh, look how she's tackling me. Hey, as we're moving on, 00:22:57.880 --> 00:23:00.840 I'm going to jump off screen for a little bit and try to figure out what's up with my dog. 00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:05.240 Um, Ray and Patrick, you guys run with it and tell us what's next. 00:23:05.240 --> 00:23:13.240 Sweet. We can finally talk more about new girl. Uh, no, all right, Patrick, um, talk us through the 00:23:13.240 --> 00:23:18.360 filming process because our, our, how involved are you? Uh, because not every communicator wants 00:23:18.360 --> 00:23:23.000 to be overly involved on the technical side. And then some want to tinker a little too much. 00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:27.720 So how involved are you? And every creative director is like, please don't let them tinker too much. 00:23:27.720 --> 00:23:33.160 Right? Like there's a little bit of that. Yeah. So you're an Enneagram eight, which means that 00:23:33.160 --> 00:23:39.720 you like to tinker. You, you want to control. So tell me about that. Always, always. So I think 00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:45.000 what I'm trying to, what I'm, what I would like to help every communicator and pastor think about 00:23:45.000 --> 00:23:50.280 right now is how can you kind of function as both a director and an artist at the same time, 00:23:50.280 --> 00:23:54.600 or, or you could say a director and a pastor at the same time. Like, how do you, how do you balance 00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:58.760 those two things? What I think oftentimes will happen, especially in this world is there's this, 00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:03.320 there's this strive to get back to in-person what I'm comfortable with. And, and so the digital thing 00:24:03.320 --> 00:24:08.520 is kind of a passing moment that we're trying to get through and we don't necessarily put the effort 00:24:08.520 --> 00:24:13.480 into thinking about how do we create, you know, craft or create something, um, that's kind of a full 00:24:13.480 --> 00:24:18.280 package on the communication side. And so, you know, I'm, I'm always curious, like for pastors, 00:24:18.280 --> 00:24:21.960 what are your creative meetings actually look like around your talk now? Like you might have 00:24:21.960 --> 00:24:25.720 creative meetings around everything else around your talk, but what is the actual creative process 00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:31.160 like within your talk? So I would say this, I think every person that's on the screen needs to think 00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:35.560 like a director and speak like an artist. Now that doesn't mean you have to have every part of it down. 00:24:35.560 --> 00:24:39.080 It doesn't mean that you necessarily need to be the director, but the more that you can pre-plan 00:24:39.080 --> 00:24:44.040 and the better you communicate, the better your message is actually going to be. Right. And so for me, 00:24:44.040 --> 00:24:48.280 I think about this, like if I'm going to reference a picture in a message, I want to know that that 00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:52.360 picture is going to show up and I want to be able to point to it. Right. And that's an easy thing. 00:24:52.360 --> 00:24:56.760 That's like a one percenter, but that actually helps drive engagement, but it takes pre-planning 00:24:56.760 --> 00:25:02.520 on the front end. Right. I'll jot down the mood or emotion that I'm going to want to be creating or 00:25:02.520 --> 00:25:07.800 live within. There are different parts of my talk and give that away to people. I want people to find that. 00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:12.120 And so for me, sometimes I'll even go back and say, Hey, like, did we get it right? I want to see 00:25:12.120 --> 00:25:16.440 that part or listen to that to see if the music actually matches in the way that we want. So I 00:25:16.440 --> 00:25:21.560 would just say this, remember that you are the gatekeeper of quality content and the arc of the 00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:27.880 emotion that doesn't go away just because you're in front of a lens. That's good. Real quick. How do you 00:25:27.880 --> 00:25:33.160 drive to clarity for that? Because sometimes when you say speak like an artist, that doesn't translate 00:25:33.160 --> 00:25:38.280 well, like, Hey, make it more awesome or make it more beautiful. That doesn't always translate so well. Whereas, 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:43.960 sometimes I prefer you to speak to me like a scientist, like, no, like time codes and clarity, 00:25:43.960 --> 00:25:47.480 like as best as possible. How do you and your team resolve some of that tension? 00:25:48.120 --> 00:25:52.520 So that's good. So when I, when I'm saying speak like an artist, what I'm saying is that there is 00:25:52.520 --> 00:25:58.440 a blank page and you're painting on it and you're putting your message there. Um, and you're also 00:25:58.440 --> 00:26:03.240 thinking enough about technical to communicate feelings. So I would say, and if I, if I'm hoping to 00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:07.800 be viewed, you know, and those like, how am I viewed artists or scientists? Sure. I think you're having to, 00:26:07.800 --> 00:26:13.320 like figure those things out, but specifically with communicating to your team, I, what I would say 00:26:13.320 --> 00:26:19.400 is you're, you're used to doing the artist thing, crafting something. Now also think about it from 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:23.640 the seat of the person that's actually producing it. I think you've got to do that part really well, 00:26:23.640 --> 00:26:27.480 but yeah, for sure. I think you don't always want to be an artist unless you're Erwin McManus 00:26:27.480 --> 00:26:30.920 and you can get away with it. You know what I'm saying? Like, and we're not, there's one Erwin. 00:26:30.920 --> 00:26:37.320 So I think you've got to figure it out. Yeah. You're saying, you're saying words like process 00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:41.720 and pre-planning, like you're, you're putting a lot of effort up front into that, but you know, 00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:48.360 let's, let's get real here. Like life's crazy. Ministry's crazy. Uh, it's 167 hours until the next 00:26:48.360 --> 00:26:53.560 time you've got to speak. And so, you know, how, how do you kind of work through that and kind of 00:26:53.560 --> 00:26:58.280 anticipate in, in, in a real life scenario? Like what, what are those tensions and how do you work through it? 00:26:58.280 --> 00:27:04.360 Yeah. Well, I would also say we, I have ridiculous team that helps me do that and they can ask me 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:09.560 anything and push back and tell me, no, that's another big thing. You know, like that they're 00:27:09.560 --> 00:27:14.200 very involved in that stuff. I would say for me though, I'm trying, I'm working on multiple talks 00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:18.520 at a time. And I think that's been super helpful. If you're going to do this kind of thing at a high 00:27:18.520 --> 00:27:22.920 level with the way that we're talking about doing it, um, you're not just working on one thing at a 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:26.520 time. And so, and it's not even that I'm like eight weeks planned. It's not even that, 00:27:26.520 --> 00:27:32.840 like I don't have eight talks in the hopper right now, but I would say I have ideas and thoughts and 00:27:32.840 --> 00:27:36.760 my notes app is kind of full of that. And then we, once it gets there, then it's in a system, 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:41.080 right? So right now we have a document that, that actually is gone all the way through Easter. And I 00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:45.640 have bigger themes that I'm going to be communicating through, but the difference for me and from what I've 00:27:45.640 --> 00:27:51.960 used to do is I also have a ton of notes around the field and look and approach that I want in those kind of 00:27:51.960 --> 00:27:58.440 spaces that it's kind of, it's a different column, I guess, than just the content. I think as pastors, 00:27:58.440 --> 00:28:02.360 especially trying to do this digital media thing, we got to have both of those. So yeah, 00:28:03.160 --> 00:28:07.960 it's good. Yeah. Um, the other thing I was going to put around this too, when it comes to like 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:13.160 communicating in front of the camera is I think we have to create rhythms to be ready. Um, this is one 00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:17.080 of the things, at least that I've talked to pastors that has kind of been the, the, one of the quickest 00:28:17.080 --> 00:28:22.200 things to be lost, right? There used to be a rhythm to Sunday mornings where you get up, whatever you 00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:25.800 do with your run through or somebody does a thing, you might go to the green room, you might go somewhere 00:28:25.800 --> 00:28:30.920 else or with people, but you have a rhythm of getting ready to do this and everything has shifted. It's 00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:36.280 been hard to refine that rhythm, uh, for a lot of people, uh, and live spaces I put in my notes and 00:28:36.280 --> 00:28:41.720 say, you probably are somewhere at some point working on the last minute prep, but now you're walking into 00:28:41.720 --> 00:28:46.840 a room with maybe three guys or four guys who are filming you and you don't really get that kind 00:28:46.840 --> 00:28:51.800 of last minute sort of moment or you at least skip on it and maybe like your mind is in the right 00:28:51.800 --> 00:28:55.480 space. Um, so what I would say to communicators all the time is when, when you're getting into this, 00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:59.800 you need to figure out what that rhythm is and actually craft it and don't be afraid to hold to 00:28:59.800 --> 00:29:04.440 it. Right. One of the biggest gifts that you can give any team to be filming you is that you are at 00:29:04.440 --> 00:29:09.080 a right head space actually communicate whatever it is that you're trying to deliver. So you need to make 00:29:09.080 --> 00:29:13.160 that playlist, right? You need to have that playlist that you listened to before with Bruno Mars playing. 00:29:13.160 --> 00:29:17.960 I'm just kidding. Hillsong United playing before you go up and speak in front of a lens, right? Like 00:29:17.960 --> 00:29:23.320 you need to have those things, uh, kind of, kind of ready and your, your head space and everything, or 00:29:23.320 --> 00:29:27.800 if you're the guy setting up the camera and you're part of that, which I am like, I think that then I 00:29:27.800 --> 00:29:32.680 need a little bit of time to pause and make sure that I get myself in the right space before I walk back 00:29:32.680 --> 00:29:36.520 in the room. There's nothing wrong with that. I think that's one of the greatest gifts that you can give your 00:29:36.520 --> 00:29:42.840 team because it allows you to be fully present at the moment. Love, love that. Hey, we had a 00:29:42.840 --> 00:29:47.960 question come in from, from the outside here, a mysterious Facebook user. Are there resources you 00:29:47.960 --> 00:29:53.400 recommend to build storyboards to help with that communication, maybe to help frame in the tone, 00:29:53.400 --> 00:29:58.200 message, uh, visuals of, of that. So what do you recommend? Are there tools that you use? 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:02.920 Yeah, there are. That's great. That's a great question. So, uh, we utilize Canva a lot, 00:30:02.920 --> 00:30:06.840 which is actually like, you can do some of it for free or you can pay like a very minimal amount. 00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:12.120 Um, it's, it's hilarious how much you can do there. And we have Adobe suite, but we do a lot 00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:17.320 with Canva. Um, so I would say in visual process, we're doing that. We're mocking things up there. 00:30:17.320 --> 00:30:21.960 Um, when it comes to tone, I, you know, I use, I'm going to, again, I'm a geek, but I'll use, 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:28.360 I'll use the Apple pages a lot. And then we will create columns where I'll, we'll respond to each 00:30:28.360 --> 00:30:32.440 part of it to put tone and notes and all that kind of stuff. Um, and then we use a lot with Google 00:30:32.440 --> 00:30:36.840 docs. So everybody on our team has access to my message on Google docs as we're doing it. Um, 00:30:36.840 --> 00:30:41.240 and then those chat threads and Google docs, I'm going to give you a lot of that. So, um, 00:30:41.240 --> 00:30:43.640 I think that's how we're doing it. The other thing too, I tell people all the time, if you're, 00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:47.160 if you're new to creative stuff or trying to figure out how to make it look good on a budget 00:30:47.160 --> 00:30:53.160 Envato all day, you get Envato elements for like 30 bucks a month and most of the templates are still 00:30:53.160 --> 00:30:57.320 there and they're just downloading it and just tweaking it or things like Sunday social. Those 00:30:57.320 --> 00:31:03.720 are all great kind of avenues for that. So yeah, which is a great lead. And honestly, 00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:08.040 the last thing I was going to say is really kind of making it visually appealing. Um, and so I would 00:31:08.040 --> 00:31:14.760 say, um, I would say this is one of the things that it can, can be easily overlooked. Um, especially 00:31:14.760 --> 00:31:19.160 depending on what your comfortability is with creativity or, you know, design or that sort 00:31:19.160 --> 00:31:23.720 of thing. Um, but here's the thing that I wish I could just convince every lead pastor of no matter 00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:28.120 how old you are, your age or that sort of thing is that the people that you're communicating to that 00:31:28.120 --> 00:31:35.560 are younger are not accustomed to learning in front of a person, the lectern talking them for 30 minutes, 00:31:35.560 --> 00:31:41.000 right? Now they might do that in school still, but when they actually want to learn something, 00:31:41.000 --> 00:31:45.800 they're going to YouTube and the person teaching them on YouTube has thought about how to visually 00:31:45.800 --> 00:31:50.520 engage them. Right. So I make this reference all the time. I'm going to give you two to think about. 00:31:50.520 --> 00:31:54.600 And then, uh, and then you kind of process that. The first one is Salmanaj. I believe I talked 00:31:54.600 --> 00:31:59.640 about this last time with Patriot acts. Now again, we have 4 million. I mean, some people that we don't 00:31:59.640 --> 00:32:06.040 have $4 million budgets to put towards that. I get it. Um, but while watching how he does humor, 00:32:06.040 --> 00:32:11.560 watching how he does visuals, watching how that works, that's where your 20 somethings are learning 00:32:11.560 --> 00:32:17.960 about politics right now. So where they are, that that's kind of the level of engagement that they're 00:32:17.960 --> 00:32:22.920 getting. Um, so another example of this on a completely different size is a guy named Bruxy, 00:32:22.920 --> 00:32:26.440 who's a pastor, I believe in Canada. He's in Canada. I've come across some of his stuff. 00:32:26.440 --> 00:32:30.920 Now he'll set up, this is what I want to tell him. He'll set up a camera. He'll, it'll be the three 00:32:30.920 --> 00:32:35.480 minute, like theological question. They'll answer three minutes. But I laugh like, oh, 00:32:35.480 --> 00:32:39.720 you don't need production. I'm like, yeah, but he's, he's got a phenomenal camera that the coloring 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.600 is right. The audio is really good. And then he has this title package that happens in the middle 00:32:44.600 --> 00:32:49.000 and you've got the lower thirds that look good. But at the end of the day, it's a guy with a massive 00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.080 beard in his early fifties. I assume Bruxy, if you're watching it, you're not, I'm sorry. 00:32:54.760 --> 00:32:59.320 That is sitting there giving really great theological content, but it is produced. It's still thought 00:32:59.320 --> 00:33:05.400 it through. And so you can go over here. So I tell people right now, the two big purchases that we 00:33:05.400 --> 00:33:10.920 made that were really hard for me to make. Um, we, we got the, we got a nice camera, right? The black 00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:15.960 magic 6k with the lens, which isn't crazy expensive. And then the biggest purchase that we got, which is 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.280 difficult for us, even as a church plant in this world, we got a lot donated, which helped us. 00:33:20.280 --> 00:33:25.320 We also bought like an led wall and here's why. And it's kind of seems weird is I'm making the assumption 00:33:25.320 --> 00:33:27.640 whether I can meet live in person or not. 00:33:27.640 --> 00:33:32.200 We're going to do some version of a studio set up moving forward. I think that's where Ted, 00:33:32.760 --> 00:33:37.080 there's a studio sets moving forward. And that led was actually a lot more affordable than I 00:33:37.080 --> 00:33:42.680 just realized. And we did that early to say, no matter if we're digital or for live, 00:33:42.680 --> 00:33:46.680 we can create really quality, visually engaging content and be out in the front 00:33:47.320 --> 00:33:49.560 of communicating to people who are learning that way. 00:33:50.440 --> 00:33:54.520 Anyway. So I think you have to make it visually appealing. And if you don't know how to do that, 00:33:54.520 --> 00:33:58.200 lean into the people who do, you knew, and they were around you. So yeah, that's good. 00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:05.080 Um, now it's great to be visually appealing. I love all that, but engaging with the camera and kind 00:34:05.080 --> 00:34:10.360 of striking towards the heart. How do you do that in turn? And how are you leaning in that way? 00:34:10.360 --> 00:34:13.800 Because a lot of pastors, I've seen, Hey, a lot of great churches that have the wall, 00:34:13.800 --> 00:34:18.120 that have the cameras, but then they don't, they don't know how to kind of like what you alluded to 00:34:18.120 --> 00:34:21.080 earlier. They don't know how to make it human. They don't know how to drive in that way in terms of, 00:34:21.080 --> 00:34:26.840 Hey, let me grab your eyes here and let me be, let me grab your heart. Um, how do you do that? 00:34:26.840 --> 00:34:31.080 How do you think towards that? Yeah. You know, again, I think, 00:34:31.720 --> 00:34:37.320 I think everything that you use visually, every camera thing, every production, it's all a tool 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:44.360 to help you feel like you're one-on-one with a person. Uh, I think C3 at NYC is doing this right 00:34:44.360 --> 00:34:48.760 now. They have the big wall, but he's like drawing on an iPad. So it looks like it's handwritten, 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.960 right. It's that kind of thing. Um, I think it's, it's a lot in studying body language. If you're a 00:34:53.960 --> 00:34:58.440 pastor, you've never studied body language before it's, it's really important to do that, especially 00:34:58.440 --> 00:35:02.360 now, especially when you're being filmed here. You know what I mean? Like there's this, you know, 00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:07.160 this is important, uh, knowing how you're coming off approaching things is really important. Uh, 00:35:07.160 --> 00:35:11.560 and then I know this is really, this is going to be like overly simplistic, but as you're communicating, 00:35:11.560 --> 00:35:15.560 especially your most important points, if I give anybody a few seconds, I'd say you're just, 00:35:15.560 --> 00:35:20.280 you gotta invite people in to it somehow. However you're doing that, you just, you're working to 00:35:20.280 --> 00:35:24.920 kind of pull people in with you, invite them in and really work towards your body language and paying 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:30.040 attention to your vocal tone as you move throughout. All of that's going to play into whether the person's 00:35:30.040 --> 00:35:35.560 leaning in. Uh, now having said all that, I wanted to kind of say one last thing on the heart side of it, 00:35:35.560 --> 00:35:41.720 um, is a lot of us are really excited about moving back towards, uh, you know, in-person environments 00:35:41.720 --> 00:35:46.760 and it's great. And I think what I wanted to say is most of us, including us, we're going to rush 00:35:46.760 --> 00:35:50.920 back. We're excited about bigger rooms and we're going to do those things for sure. But the digital 00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:54.360 thing that we've experienced over the last year, year and a half, that's not going away. That's here. 00:35:54.360 --> 00:35:58.760 Most of us, I hope kind of lean into doing both of those things. We talk about digital, both of those 00:35:58.760 --> 00:36:03.720 things really, really well, but knowing those two things are very different and we have to lean into it. 00:36:03.720 --> 00:36:07.320 And so what I kind of wanted to do, if I could sit down every pastor in the country, which I'll never 00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:11.160 be able to do, but all of them watch your podcast, Jeff. So maybe we'll get a chance to do it. I'm 00:36:11.160 --> 00:36:18.520 going to say it awesome. I would say this is, is as you move back, don't assume no matter what age 00:36:18.520 --> 00:36:22.280 you are, that somebody else is going to pick up that ball, right? You have a unique community of 00:36:22.280 --> 00:36:27.800 people, uh, who, especially the people that are younger, who need you to lean into these spaces 00:36:27.800 --> 00:36:31.880 and do this really, really well. And so don't just rush back to life. Acknowledge 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:36.040 the fact that there's going to be a lot of people who are now going to be your digital only people, 00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:39.400 or they're going to come once every eight weeks and watch you online, which they would probably 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.720 do it anyway. And you need to lean into those environments to do that really well. Um, because 00:36:43.720 --> 00:36:49.480 if you don't write someone else might, but they might not do it in your unique voice and your unique 00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:54.200 way that your people need to hear. So I would just encourage it. Please lean into the digital side, 00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:58.680 even if it means you're learning a new skill for the next year, two years, five years for most of us, 00:36:58.680 --> 00:37:01.880 20 or 30 years. I try to figure that out well. So that's what I was going to say. 00:37:03.560 --> 00:37:08.360 Wow, man, some excellent takeaways here. This was solid, solid stuff. Like, uh, and I'm not even 00:37:08.360 --> 00:37:13.880 talking about proxy.com. I'm really like intrigued with this guy. Uh, never heard of him. I'll, 00:37:13.880 --> 00:37:20.440 I'll be exploring it later. And, and the beard and the hair, it's epic. Very, very jealous. So if no 00:37:20.440 --> 00:37:25.640 other reason than just the homepage landing page, uh, check out the website and dig into it. If he's 00:37:25.640 --> 00:37:31.720 theologically inaccurate, don't blame me, 100% Patrick Holden. That was a blank, uh, endorsement 00:37:32.520 --> 00:37:36.360 towards that. But so, you know, I got a sticky here. It's just things that I wrote down, uh, 00:37:36.360 --> 00:37:41.560 describing the video in the first five seconds. And then, um, the next five seconds talking about a 00:37:41.560 --> 00:37:45.880 question that's not resolved to the end, you know, just kind of baiting the hook on that is, is solid. 00:37:45.880 --> 00:37:52.200 Body language is, is so important. And I, and I love your heart as, as you're talking about just even, 00:37:52.200 --> 00:37:56.520 hey, you've, you've got this audience pastor, nobody's picking it up. Continue to own that, 00:37:56.520 --> 00:38:01.560 that piece of it, even mid post COVID as we're coming out of this. So this, this was so good. 00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:04.440 Ray, just as, as we're landing the plane here, man, any, any closing thoughts? 00:38:05.080 --> 00:38:08.760 I love hearing Patrick's heart on that. And, and Patrick, thank you for giving us such a practical 00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:13.800 breakdown here because you know what you and your team have created, even in terms of launching a 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:17.320 church. And we've made this reference before in the podcast and other stuff we've done, 00:38:17.320 --> 00:38:21.640 but if you're not checking out what Nuvo Church is doing, you really need to go see it because 00:38:21.640 --> 00:38:24.600 that's the only way that you're really going to fully experience some of the things that Patrick 00:38:24.600 --> 00:38:28.440 is talking about right now, because it's one thing to talk about theory. This is a lot of 00:38:28.440 --> 00:38:33.080 stuff that they've put into practice. He's given you the playbook here. And so I urge you to go see 00:38:33.080 --> 00:38:38.600 the outcome of it because number one, it was always super impressive, impressive to me as a church 00:38:38.600 --> 00:38:42.600 plant, because we've seen a lot of churches with resources that have already been around for years, 00:38:42.600 --> 00:38:46.520 you know, make that pivot. But when he's launched this thing or, and he and his team have launched 00:38:46.520 --> 00:38:50.360 this thing fully online, but number two, I think you'll be able to compare and contrast what he's 00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:53.560 saying here and what is actually happening at Nuvo. And I think you're going to be able to take away 00:38:53.560 --> 00:38:56.760 a lot of solid stuff. And so thank you, Patrick, for joining us and sharing this. 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:03.960 Yeah, this was golden. Yeah. Check out Nuvo Church. Definitely towards that. And just even to 00:39:03.960 --> 00:39:09.960 endorse a little bit there. Not a lot of resources yet. The LED wall's crazy. Maybe you can, 00:39:09.960 --> 00:39:15.480 can work out some other ways around that, but from a, Hey, just it's a digital approach, 00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:21.000 kind of that mindset, even going in reaching that type of person. It's always love having these, 00:39:21.000 --> 00:39:25.640 these conversations with Patrick. And of course you can check out Patrick. I'm sure it is the social 00:39:25.640 --> 00:39:29.320 media, but Patrick, as we're landing the plane here in any closing thoughts on your side. 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:35.240 I don't think so. I would say, I think, you know, I say, yeah, I would say to every pastor, 00:39:35.240 --> 00:39:39.720 where you're like, am I doing it? Am I doing it well? Am I doing it right? I would just say to you, 00:39:39.720 --> 00:39:44.920 you're likely doing it a lot better than you feel right now. And you're likely making a bigger 00:39:44.920 --> 00:39:48.120 impact than you feel right now. So don't be discouraged. Just continue to lean into it. 00:39:49.560 --> 00:39:54.040 Awesome. Just even speaking from the heart there, once again, that, that was so good. Hey, 00:39:54.040 --> 00:39:59.240 love this time. Lots of conversations happening in social media about it. So, 00:39:59.240 --> 00:40:03.480 Hey, uh, and we're, we're going to wrap because I got a jet to go do something else. So, um, 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:09.560 great for, uh, for Ray, uh, for Patrick, this is Jeff at the church, digital and stated church 00:40:09.560 --> 00:40:13.720 planning. Uh, thanks for jumping here on the beta show. Once again, we'll see you next time. 00:40:13.720 --> 00:40:16.280 Y'all have a good day.