WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.940 Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I, Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with you, churches that are out there. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:23.360 One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering through Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:31.780 We want to help you, we want to help your church learn to thrive, grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:38.320 We've seen about 200 churches go through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it. 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.620 Culture is changing within these churches. 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:42.640 They're understanding what it is to thrive. 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:52.500 They're understanding how to grow people, how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season. 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:58.460 And they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. 00:00:58.620 --> 00:01:01.880 There's no secret sauce to doing a digital strategy. 00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:04.940 There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.960 There's no secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:10.760 It takes work. 00:01:10.820 --> 00:01:11.660 I'm not going to lie. 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:16.680 But through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities, we connect you with churches. 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:17.940 We give you some content. 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:31.740 We coach you along the way to help you make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply your church along the way. 00:01:31.940 --> 00:01:34.080 This is a great opportunity for your church. 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:35.500 We would love to have you be a part of it. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:40.920 For more information, check out stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:41.620 --> 00:01:44.260 stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:47.840 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:48.500 All right. 00:01:48.580 --> 00:01:49.320 Hey, that's it. 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:51.240 We're going to get you back to that episode right now. 00:01:51.700 --> 00:01:52.180 All right. 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:57.380 We got beta episode 16 of the Church Digital Podcast powered by Stated Church Planting. 00:01:57.540 --> 00:01:58.160 Jeff here. 00:01:58.260 --> 00:01:59.780 By the way, this is Clubhouse edition. 00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:01.400 We're in the middle of an experiment. 00:02:01.560 --> 00:02:09.860 We've talked about this publicly, about how we're experimenting with the beta show, actually running the beta show on this new social media network called Clubhouse. 00:02:09.940 --> 00:02:11.180 By the way, I love it. 00:02:11.440 --> 00:02:14.760 By the way, if you don't have access to Clubhouse, reach out to me on social media. 00:02:15.700 --> 00:02:22.160 Superfetch, the Church Digital, if you know me, you know where to find me, and I would love to get you access to Clubhouse. 00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:22.780 It's iOS. 00:02:23.500 --> 00:02:25.740 It is not Android friendly yet. 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.140 Sorry. 00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:29.180 It's primarily in the United States and I think England. 00:02:29.340 --> 00:02:33.040 So even internationally, some people have had a hard time getting onto it. 00:02:33.180 --> 00:02:38.780 And yes, I hear you, Android users and people who don't want to get on Clubhouse. 00:02:38.920 --> 00:02:42.400 Yes, there is solid content that's happening on Clubhouse. 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:45.080 And yes, FOMO, fear of missing out, is a thing. 00:02:45.080 --> 00:02:51.520 So, hey, we're going to be doing content on Clubhouse, but then we're also going to make it available through the Church Digital. 00:02:51.760 --> 00:02:53.320 We're doing this in an audio podcast. 00:02:53.540 --> 00:03:04.240 It's what you're listening to right now and working through video and trying to get video streams and even live streaming out of Clubhouse on the other social networks, kind of working through some technical aspects. 00:03:04.460 --> 00:03:07.220 And I need to figure out, I need a preamp for audio. 00:03:07.440 --> 00:03:10.600 So maybe there's a production guy out there that wants to have a conversation. 00:03:10.720 --> 00:03:11.220 Reach out to me. 00:03:11.280 --> 00:03:12.160 Let's figure it out. 00:03:12.600 --> 00:03:12.780 All right. 00:03:12.880 --> 00:03:13.740 So here's where we are. 00:03:13.740 --> 00:03:23.240 In this conversation, the question, and this was posed by Liz Rios, one of a network church planter person down here in South Florida. 00:03:24.180 --> 00:03:28.820 One of my, I told in the broadcast, this is one of my favorite people on social media that I have yet to meet. 00:03:29.300 --> 00:03:35.300 Liz is asking great questions and sharing some great ideas when it comes towards digital church. 00:03:35.420 --> 00:03:38.140 And it was in one of these conversations that I had somewhere on Facebook. 00:03:38.580 --> 00:03:43.860 I forget where, but Liz basically made the comment about, hey, you know, there's lots of questions to ask on digital. 00:03:44.020 --> 00:03:45.920 And I said, hey, what's the best topic? 00:03:46.120 --> 00:03:54.940 What is the biggest question for you right now that would help the churches that you're working with, with passion to plant and in that passion to plant network? 00:03:55.020 --> 00:03:59.020 And Liz replied back, what's the difference between digital and physical? 00:03:59.020 --> 00:04:01.940 And that is an incredible question. 00:04:02.040 --> 00:04:07.820 And so that's what we're bringing into this conversation here with the Church Digital Podcast. 00:04:08.520 --> 00:04:12.980 What is the difference between physical and digital? 00:04:13.120 --> 00:04:16.820 Physical ministry, digital ministry, they operate differently. 00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:24.620 And we brought in a great panelist of conversations and had incredible conversations, questions asked from the audience and thoughts. 00:04:24.740 --> 00:04:25.420 It was great. 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:27.100 Hey, we're going to introduce these guys. 00:04:27.220 --> 00:04:28.420 Matt Welty from Crossroads. 00:04:28.920 --> 00:04:31.860 Tyler Volkers from Ridge Church up in Minnesota. 00:04:32.340 --> 00:04:34.200 Stephen Smith from First Baptist Houston. 00:04:34.320 --> 00:04:35.380 Liz Rios jumped in. 00:04:35.380 --> 00:04:40.880 And there were other people who jumped in to ask questions from Clubhouse, which is why I love Clubhouse so much. 00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:44.560 The accessibility of people to share thoughts and ask questions is awesome. 00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:52.600 So this is a great conversation with Matt, Tyler, Stephen, and Liz centered around what's the difference between digital and physical. 00:04:52.760 --> 00:04:59.740 This is going to be beta episode 16 here, Clubhouse edition, how digital is different than physical. 00:05:00.220 --> 00:05:01.620 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:05:01.980 --> 00:05:04.720 Hey, this is going to be a really interesting conversation. 00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:06.220 We're going to open it up. 00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:15.680 I want to introduce Liz Rios, Elizabeth Rios, my favorite Facebook friend here in Miami, who I've never actually physically met. 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.200 Elizabeth, we've not been in the same physical space, right? 00:05:20.260 --> 00:05:21.300 I don't want to be crazy here. 00:05:21.620 --> 00:05:22.160 We're awkward. 00:05:23.140 --> 00:05:25.460 But we've not physically met, right? 00:05:25.940 --> 00:05:26.820 Nope, we have not. 00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:27.860 Awesome. 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:28.780 I love that. 00:05:29.180 --> 00:05:30.440 The greatness of technology. 00:05:30.620 --> 00:05:31.340 I love it. 00:05:31.420 --> 00:05:32.160 You can engage, help people. 00:05:32.940 --> 00:05:34.920 And just even in the same city. 00:05:35.120 --> 00:05:37.860 And we've never physically connected. 00:05:38.060 --> 00:05:39.060 Thank you, COVID, for that. 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:39.660 Hey. 00:05:40.120 --> 00:05:47.460 So, like, I just wanted to ask up front, and part of this literally, Liz, is in answer to some of our conversations. 00:05:49.040 --> 00:06:04.880 If there are questions while we're dialoguing, if there's other people in the room that have questions and dialoguing, one of the options, the greatness parts of utilizing Clubhouse is that we get to hear each other talk. 00:06:05.440 --> 00:06:07.840 I look at it very much towards Q&A. 00:06:08.000 --> 00:06:11.660 I look at it a lot towards engaging and sharing some thoughts. 00:06:11.940 --> 00:06:15.500 And so, I really want to utilize the hand-raising function here. 00:06:15.760 --> 00:06:21.440 If you guys have thoughts, even in the audience level, let's bring you up and let's dialogue and let's talk through this. 00:06:21.500 --> 00:06:25.340 I want this to be a constant flow of conversation. 00:06:25.340 --> 00:06:35.560 And on the panelist side, let's let others kind of speak in and dialogue through it as well, since we're all kind of wrestling and learning from this. 00:06:36.180 --> 00:06:37.520 And so, appreciate that. 00:06:37.580 --> 00:06:38.560 Looking forward to that. 00:06:38.880 --> 00:06:42.500 Also, I need to say, because Clubhouse is Clubhouse, we are recording this. 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:49.420 I will turn this into a podcast at some point, I think probably within the next week or so, and put it out on the Church Digital Podcast. 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.780 There's a link in my bio if you want to subscribe to the podcast to have access to it. 00:06:54.780 --> 00:06:56.100 Or if you want to share this with others. 00:06:56.880 --> 00:07:06.040 But a lot of people have FOMO because we're doing this on, you know, here on Clubhouse where not everybody has access and all the Android users are all freaking out. 00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:09.080 So, we do make it available for them on that. 00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:13.140 But, you know, and let's even open it up towards practicality. 00:07:13.140 --> 00:07:19.360 If someone wants to share, you know, feel free to raise their hand seriously and let's get in there. 00:07:19.700 --> 00:07:23.740 But I'll just open it up for the panel and kind of see who wants to go first. 00:07:24.220 --> 00:07:37.620 In context of digital ministry, maybe what were some of the first lessons or the biggest lessons, the biggest aha moments that we've experienced in this COVID season when it comes to digital? 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:50.140 What's the big life lesson that it's like now I'm understanding why and how to communicate to these different shapes, to the circles and to the triangles? 00:07:50.380 --> 00:07:51.580 Anybody want to speak to that? 00:07:52.220 --> 00:07:52.800 I'd say this. 00:07:52.860 --> 00:07:56.580 I'd say we totally underestimated our congregation at the beginning. 00:07:57.380 --> 00:07:57.520 Wow. 00:07:57.800 --> 00:07:59.260 Jeff, you and I have talked about this before. 00:07:59.460 --> 00:08:04.580 We were very afraid, you know, the first day or two. 00:08:06.020 --> 00:08:13.380 I would say even the first week or two, we were like, how are we going to get people online to make this thing happen? 00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:19.940 And by the time that two weeks were up, you know, six billion people in the world. 00:08:20.080 --> 00:08:21.100 Well, that's an overstatement. 00:08:22.920 --> 00:08:27.060 The people in our church, most of them could understand Zoom. 00:08:27.920 --> 00:08:30.240 Most of them could get into a Bible study. 00:08:32.040 --> 00:08:36.980 The, you know, the world was trained in digital communication overnight. 00:08:37.680 --> 00:08:54.000 So what we thought in the beginning would be the hardest, sorry, the tallest hurdle to overcome was actually something that was quite easy because there was a necessity of communication that happened. 00:08:54.000 --> 00:09:04.860 And I think that's something the Lord gave us, all of us, to be able to have training overnight for people to be able to connect in that way. 00:09:04.940 --> 00:09:05.280 Unbelievable. 00:09:06.660 --> 00:09:09.720 I think that that's the thing that happened. 00:09:09.820 --> 00:09:10.500 It was necessity. 00:09:10.740 --> 00:09:10.940 I think. 00:09:15.280 --> 00:09:19.400 Fear of technology because they themselves didn't really know how to navigate that. 00:09:19.760 --> 00:09:21.760 And so they transferred that to their people. 00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:28.400 And, yes, that was the big aha that, oh, my gosh, people know how to press a button and get into a Zoom and things like that. 00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:37.260 But I think, too, though, honestly, from my perspective, there was a need for change even before the pandemic. 00:09:37.940 --> 00:09:45.400 And there were people that were, you know, already experimenting with digital and trying to see, you know, how that could work for church. 00:09:45.520 --> 00:09:53.340 I had actually interviewed Pastor Jay Kim, who he actually wrote a book and it came out like right in like two months into the pandemic. 00:09:53.340 --> 00:09:56.980 And I was just like, oh, my gosh, he wrote a book called Analog Church. 00:09:57.060 --> 00:09:58.220 I don't know if anyone's heard of it. 00:09:59.000 --> 00:10:04.600 And it was about why we need real people in places in this digital age. 00:10:04.760 --> 00:10:11.260 And the funny thing about it was that he was kind of advocating for, you know, that physical presence. 00:10:11.260 --> 00:10:19.400 But remember that you can still use the digital because he says that the digital informs, but the, you know, the physical presence transforms. 00:10:19.400 --> 00:10:25.760 And I actually, you know, got back to him and I was like, OK, how do you feel now with everybody doing this, you know? 00:10:26.780 --> 00:10:38.500 And it was like, you know, I never meant it to be that I was against digital, but that it wouldn't be something that we would look to as the permanent place for us to stay. 00:10:38.760 --> 00:10:43.240 But I really believe that there's a lot of people itching to go back to normal. 00:10:43.620 --> 00:10:47.080 You know, let's let's can't wait to open up, open up, you know, and that's OK. 00:10:47.220 --> 00:10:48.940 You know, we still need the physical presence. 00:10:49.080 --> 00:10:50.580 That's why I believe in the digital. 00:10:50.900 --> 00:10:54.060 Thank you, Jeff, for for, you know, coining that. 00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:01.000 But I think there is a big place for digital going forward for a lot of different reasons. 00:11:01.000 --> 00:11:14.220 And I think that's why I thought this conversation would be interesting because it's it's it's not saying no because you're scared, but saying yes, with a different mindset, using different platforms to reach different kinds of people. 00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:17.900 It's you know, I think it's about, you know, engagement. 00:11:17.900 --> 00:11:28.340 I think that's what another aha thing that people have learned during this time, that it's not just people jumping into the the you know, the stream, but it's actually how do you engage people? 00:11:28.340 --> 00:11:31.420 Well, I like someone just mentioned the digital pathway. 00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:32.520 That's awesome. 00:11:32.700 --> 00:11:39.520 You know, getting people involved in disciple, a digital discipleship method is still important. 00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:40.300 But guess what? 00:11:40.800 --> 00:11:42.620 Discipleship was important before the pandemic. 00:11:42.860 --> 00:11:44.820 It's just that people weren't paying attention to it. 00:11:45.100 --> 00:11:49.720 Now they're like, oh, my God, how are we going to get people engaged and how are we going to get people to understand the gospel? 00:11:50.640 --> 00:11:53.300 They're paying more attention to it because they have to. 00:11:55.060 --> 00:11:56.000 Well said. 00:11:56.180 --> 00:12:06.280 And definitely the relational aspects of church online, doing digital church pre-COVID, that was missed by the majority of churches out there. 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:12.440 There were a large percentage of churches in 2019 that were broadcasting church services online. 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:18.840 But the number of churches that were doing digital discipleship, small groups, creating biblical community. 00:12:19.120 --> 00:12:26.200 I mean, honestly, you're probably looking at under 200 churches in 2019 that had made a commitment towards it. 00:12:26.260 --> 00:12:27.800 And 2020 started to swing. 00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:33.720 But, of course, it was gasoline on the flame in March 2020 as everything sped along. 00:12:34.080 --> 00:12:35.800 But that really has been the miss. 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:52.240 And I've got horror stories similar to your analog church with Daniel Kim, I believe is the author there, talking about how pastors, they just didn't see that relational aspect until they were forced into that position as a result of COVID. 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:55.240 Hey, Russell, I know you came up and raised your hand. 00:12:55.360 --> 00:12:56.280 What were you thinking on this? 00:12:56.860 --> 00:13:03.340 I was just thinking, I started, I guess, you know, past several years, I've been looking at digital because I was a youth pastor. 00:13:03.900 --> 00:13:07.060 And we kind of were starting to get into those phases and things. 00:13:07.660 --> 00:13:10.980 And then, bam, like everybody else, it hit. 00:13:11.740 --> 00:13:13.640 And also, bam, I got changed. 00:13:13.760 --> 00:13:18.440 I got moved to a church in Houston, a Methodist pastor at a church in Houston. 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:22.960 And I was a senior pastor all of a sudden at a church that had never done digital. 00:13:22.960 --> 00:13:27.400 And they just kind of figured it out with everybody else and kind of put together something. 00:13:28.400 --> 00:13:33.780 But what has surprised me, and I don't know why it surprised me, but I figured the youth would grab onto it. 00:13:33.840 --> 00:13:37.260 I figured, you know, this would be a millennial thing and a Gen Z thing. 00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:44.120 But the number of, I figured I would have to come in and convince people that we need to keep doing digital. 00:13:44.560 --> 00:13:54.220 Like, you know, I was just thinking in my mind, you know, when we get back and vaccine comes and things settle down, everybody's just going to want to go back to physical in person. 00:13:54.360 --> 00:14:00.520 And it surprised me how many of my older congregation members have said, we need to keep doing this. 00:14:00.880 --> 00:14:02.180 We need to pour money into this. 00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:08.420 This is something because they've seen the value from, you know, they can participate with their grandkids are there. 00:14:08.420 --> 00:14:10.760 Or if they're gone somewhere else, they can participate. 00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:12.380 Or if they're sick, at home. 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:21.420 And so I thought it was going to be a huge challenge to convince the older generations that this was going to be something that was going to be positive. 00:14:21.700 --> 00:14:23.940 But I've been just surprised about that. 00:14:24.260 --> 00:14:26.760 And I wanted to see if that's the same with everybody else. 00:14:26.760 --> 00:14:43.120 And then also, I'm just here to listen to the ways that we continue to move beyond just streaming your services and, you know, trying to find more and more ways to keep engaged beyond just putting a camera in the back of the room or whatever. 00:14:43.340 --> 00:14:44.300 So thank you very much. 00:14:44.980 --> 00:14:45.440 Love it. 00:14:45.540 --> 00:14:46.820 Hey, thanks for jumping up, Russell. 00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:55.780 For me, like one of the takeaways is the fact that digital can be the tool that can help you reach a million people. 00:14:56.320 --> 00:15:02.420 Or it can be the tool that can help you do an individual one-on-one conversation. 00:15:03.080 --> 00:15:10.160 Like it does not, it scales, it flexes depending upon the context of what you want to do. 00:15:10.340 --> 00:15:12.460 You want to get your message heard around the world. 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.520 You can use digital in a way to do that. 00:15:15.520 --> 00:15:22.400 I'm not sure you'll be effective in doing it, but you could try to get it done, literally, so your message can be heard around the world. 00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:29.700 You want to build a relationship with someone individually into a rich individual disciple-making relationship one-on-one, one-on-three. 00:15:30.200 --> 00:15:33.380 Digital has that power to flex into it as well. 00:15:33.460 --> 00:15:47.520 And I think that's really the opportunity, even above and beyond what physical can do, is the context of how it can multiply, how it can scale, how it can shift into different contexts. 00:15:47.520 --> 00:16:10.400 And that's one of the things, Matt, honestly, that I've loved with what Crossroads has done, is how you've been able to utilize that technology piece to get that large reach, but then you're utilizing it through your guides and some of the other things that you're doing organizationally to really utilize the technology at an individual level, even some of the stuff with your mobile app. 00:16:10.440 --> 00:16:13.140 I don't know if you'd be willing to share or speak to some of that. 00:16:14.740 --> 00:16:15.260 Yeah, sure. 00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:16.500 Anything that's helpful. 00:16:16.500 --> 00:16:31.900 I mean, I think that's, to your point, that the differences between physical and digital, which is a tricky thing to talk about, because actually, whichever model you pick, for it to be culturally current and effective today, both models have to be figital. 00:16:32.440 --> 00:16:34.680 They just show up figitally different. 00:16:35.100 --> 00:16:45.480 If it, you know, the online church model or the traditional multi-site or traditional church model, for either of them to be culturally current, they have to blend both, but each has their own strengths. 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:53.400 So, you know, I think one of the strengths of the physical model is the captive attention we have with people. 00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:55.280 There's something amazing. 00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:56.960 I used to design weekend services. 00:16:57.460 --> 00:17:09.200 When someone gives you 65 minutes and you can take them on an entire journey and create an environment where they can experience God and learn from you, like, it's just a really incredible thing. 00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.080 The attention span online is so much shorter. 00:17:12.080 --> 00:17:21.820 So, you know, where there's strength in one area, on the digital side, I feel like one of the strengths is you can give people radical access to key leaders. 00:17:22.100 --> 00:17:31.300 You know, so you can use these micro moments of connection, but they can be the kind of moments that, wow, I can't believe the senior pastor answered my question on Instagram. 00:17:31.960 --> 00:17:37.660 Or, you know, I can't believe that I can DM a prayer request and get an answer right away. 00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:46.600 We, I mean, Jeff, to the app thing, you know, the, we try to do community at scale, which is like a really scary pioneering. 00:17:46.600 --> 00:18:02.760 We don't know if we're doing it right at all, but, you know, creating platforms where people can pray for each other, where people can, you know, read each other's reflections of today's daily scripture and be able to sort of co-disciple each other. 00:18:03.860 --> 00:18:18.380 You know, trying to figure out how can we take, you know, what, what digital does well is it can sometimes do a good job of removing the barriers of you have to be in a very specific time and a very specific place to get the goods. 00:18:18.660 --> 00:18:32.980 And instead, those platforms can make the goods available on demand and hopefully more and more, the people in the church, like the actual church, the people are able to create value for each other on those platforms. 00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:36.420 And it doesn't all have to fall to the church staff team to do that. 00:18:36.900 --> 00:18:40.500 So I think it's one of the differences and strengths of digital as well. 00:18:41.360 --> 00:18:45.100 Well, I mean, that even gets into equipping, how are we digital? 00:18:45.360 --> 00:18:57.960 How is that enabling other people to do ministry as opposed to the paid professionals that kind of sometimes can, can trump within the, within the physical space, just empowering and releasing. 00:18:58.140 --> 00:18:58.880 I love that. 00:18:58.880 --> 00:19:01.260 Hey, Tom, you raised your hand a while back. 00:19:01.820 --> 00:19:10.600 Tom Pounder from New Life in DC, as well as, man, this guy's all over the place to create digital resources, some awesome stuff. 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:11.760 Tom, what are you thinking? 00:19:12.820 --> 00:19:14.020 Hey, thanks, Jeff. 00:19:14.160 --> 00:19:15.860 First time caller, long time listener. 00:19:16.220 --> 00:19:17.140 I'm serious, man. 00:19:17.160 --> 00:19:19.120 This is like talk radio at its finest. 00:19:20.060 --> 00:19:21.600 2021's version of talk radio. 00:19:21.780 --> 00:19:22.080 Well done. 00:19:22.300 --> 00:19:22.500 All right. 00:19:22.560 --> 00:19:23.100 What are you thinking? 00:19:23.100 --> 00:19:30.840 Hey, I want to just go off of what Russell was talking about, too, because I think we cannot forget the older generation. 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:33.140 And I'll just use a personal example. 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:38.680 My father, he's in his early 70s, and he's not the most tech savvy person out there. 00:19:39.580 --> 00:19:47.740 But during, like, he would go to different Bible studies in person before COVID, always looking for community since my mom passed away a few years ago. 00:19:48.120 --> 00:19:52.360 And then when COVID hit, he quickly learned how to do Zoom. 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:53.960 He never had done Zoom before him. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.620 Then he would call me, constantly ask him for how to do it. 00:19:56.620 --> 00:20:04.640 But now he attends at least four or five different Bible studies from different churches around the area on Zoom. 00:20:04.840 --> 00:20:06.640 And he is constantly learning things. 00:20:06.780 --> 00:20:09.140 And it is a source of community for him. 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:15.600 And I think as we, again, everyone wants to get butts back in seats in the physical church building. 00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:24.420 But as we work towards that in some capacity, we cannot forget that this older generation can still pick up, you know, technology. 00:20:24.680 --> 00:20:30.160 And it has been a tremendous source of encouragement and hope and community for them. 00:20:30.840 --> 00:20:38.460 And I think a lot of them will stay on online well after we get back into the building, whatever that looks like for your church. 00:20:38.600 --> 00:20:41.940 Those were my thoughts, and I was very encouraged by that. 00:20:43.300 --> 00:20:49.100 Yeah, even just to build on that, and I've told the story of my mom a lot. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:51.260 And my mom is at Christ Fellowship Miami. 00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:55.120 I see Rita Armas is in the room and publicly said this. 00:20:55.160 --> 00:21:00.180 I think my mom is the best small groups leader in all of Christ Fellowship. 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:01.940 The hundreds of small groups, my mom's the best. 00:21:02.420 --> 00:21:04.760 And she leads two small groups online. 00:21:05.220 --> 00:21:07.000 My mom's 70-something years old. 00:21:07.260 --> 00:21:08.340 I'm not going to lie. 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.700 She texted me this morning because she forgot how to print on her computer again. 00:21:12.120 --> 00:21:15.220 So she's not, you know, the most technologically advanced. 00:21:15.380 --> 00:21:16.120 It's public knowledge. 00:21:16.220 --> 00:21:16.860 I am adopted. 00:21:17.500 --> 00:21:22.260 And so, but seriously, and she's not the best when it comes to some of the tech piece. 00:21:22.780 --> 00:21:26.840 That being said, when I went to my mom five years ago and said, 00:21:26.940 --> 00:21:29.680 Hey, mom, would you consider leading an online small group? 00:21:30.200 --> 00:21:30.680 This is it. 00:21:30.740 --> 00:21:35.740 I've got two or three young professional women who are looking for mentorship. 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:42.480 And would you consider taking some time with them through a small group and just mentor, disciple them? 00:21:42.620 --> 00:21:46.560 It was, my mom was a professional down here in Miami. 00:21:46.700 --> 00:21:51.240 She worked for a mortgage company, was a VP, high-ranking officer within the company. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.840 And she retired and she thought her ministry career was over. 00:21:54.940 --> 00:21:59.400 I mean, she's literally using words like, it's time for a younger person to step up and do this. 00:21:59.440 --> 00:22:00.300 I think I'm done. 00:22:01.020 --> 00:22:08.140 And through this digital discipleship, she started discipling girls in other states. 00:22:08.500 --> 00:22:09.720 Like my mom's in Miami. 00:22:09.720 --> 00:22:13.820 She's working with people in Washington, D.C., in Houston. 00:22:14.460 --> 00:22:17.280 And it literally has kept growing into other countries. 00:22:18.280 --> 00:22:26.940 Literally like different countries where she's now doing discipleship, where she's doing small groups and building some of those relationships. 00:22:27.280 --> 00:22:35.720 To the point that my mom's literally traveled the world meeting people who she's been doing small groups with. 00:22:36.120 --> 00:22:48.040 Collectively, they do trips together to different locations just to hang out together occasionally back when you could travel and hang out together for recreational purposes pre-COVID. 00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:57.160 And the type of people that my mom are getting together in a group, I mean, it ranges, yeah, there's some 70-year-old friends of my mom. 00:22:57.180 --> 00:23:00.060 But it ranges all the way down to 20-somethings. 00:23:00.540 --> 00:23:03.620 And the fact is, you can get that in physical and digital space. 00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:07.160 And it works because digital is an incredible equalizer. 00:23:07.740 --> 00:23:13.060 Sometimes I'm not sure you can really get those types of groups to effectively work in physical space. 00:23:13.060 --> 00:23:21.120 I really think that there's such a level of acceptance and forgiveness because that lens on that camera provides that separation. 00:23:21.420 --> 00:23:24.460 I think you can do things digitally that you can't do physically. 00:23:24.660 --> 00:23:33.020 And in fact, one of the small groups my mom leads is actually three of her friends that are in like the 60s and 70-year-olds. 00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:39.860 And then it's their daughters that are, you know, 30 to 40-year-olds, but they're separated by distance. 00:23:39.860 --> 00:23:49.820 And so, for example, my mom lives in Miami, one of her friends lives in Miami, and the daughter of the friend lives in, I don't know, Arizona, I think. 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.140 And the fact is, you'll never get those people in physical space together because of distance. 00:23:55.640 --> 00:24:04.380 But one of the few times a week that the mother and the daughter actually connect together relationally because of distance is when they're studying the Bible together. 00:24:04.800 --> 00:24:21.860 And so she's been able to figure out how to take advantage of the benefit of digital, the fact that you can reach people in different places, and utilizing that strength with an online small group to build some of that relationship, to restore some of that relationship. 00:24:21.860 --> 00:24:22.580 It's beautiful. 00:24:23.180 --> 00:24:25.740 And my mom came up with that all on her own, and she's 73. 00:24:25.980 --> 00:24:30.360 And so if you're looking for an online small groups pastor, I can definitely connect you with her. 00:24:30.780 --> 00:24:32.300 She's incredible and well worth it. 00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:37.520 She doesn't know how to print sometimes, but beyond that, she's an incredible resource. 00:24:38.080 --> 00:24:38.560 I'm kidding. 00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:39.460 Don't hire my mom. 00:24:39.940 --> 00:24:40.380 That's awesome. 00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:42.920 But seriously, there's phenomenal opportunities there. 00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:47.180 So somebody else up here at the speaker level, if there are questions, raise your hand, come up. 00:24:47.500 --> 00:24:48.940 We'd love to dialogue through here. 00:24:48.940 --> 00:24:54.480 But as we think about some of the similarities and some of the differences, how is digital, physical different? 00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:55.700 How is it similar? 00:24:56.600 --> 00:24:57.820 What are we thinking about? 00:24:58.940 --> 00:25:11.540 I'd just like to add another thing, too, about that, that one of the things that I know I've been thinking about, and I have a few of my friends in the room that I've been trying to convince them to join in on adventure, 00:25:11.540 --> 00:25:21.440 which is that not only are we doing digital discipleship differently and, you know, kind of doing different ways of Matthew 28, 00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:29.780 but also we get an opportunity to tap into some of the most amazing people that are doing ministry around the country. 00:25:29.780 --> 00:25:41.460 And they get to either, you know, come on as part of your team, or they are able to come and speak to your congregation without actually having to take a plane. 00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:50.100 So not only are we expanding who we reach, but we're also able to bring in more people to teach. 00:25:50.620 --> 00:25:53.560 This is a great way to really be the distributed church. 00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:54.460 There's no walls. 00:25:54.460 --> 00:26:00.940 You can get an opportunity to not only expand your reach, you know, through the digital discipleship, because it is possible, 00:26:00.940 --> 00:26:08.960 but also that you can bring in some people that you would love to have in ministry with you, but can't, 00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:15.660 because everybody's in different geographical areas, and that makes it possible to have this digital community. 00:26:16.260 --> 00:26:23.080 And some people have had the local parish, whenever COVID-19 disappears, whenever that is, 00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:33.680 they can continue to have that physical presence, as Matt mentioned, because really a good church will have both expressions. 00:26:33.680 --> 00:26:34.960 So I agree with that. 00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:46.900 But for the time being, it's a great opportunity to not only, you know, expand the reach, but also bring in people that you would love to work with you and teach your people. 00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:57.080 You know, our old models of church, I think sometimes unintentionally with no ill motives, they led us into this exclusivity mindset, 00:26:57.080 --> 00:27:00.640 where, like, the people in our church were our church people. 00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:07.560 And this new era that we're going in, I just wonder, as we let go of exclusivity, 00:27:08.100 --> 00:27:14.140 and as we embrace that people are going to do the weekend at this church and a weekend over here, 00:27:14.140 --> 00:27:19.200 and then they're going to do a small group study at this church, that we might discover more unity in the kingdom. 00:27:19.900 --> 00:27:25.800 And there's just something really exciting about that distributed church concept that you talked about. 00:27:27.080 --> 00:27:29.720 And I would hope that it does bring more unity. 00:27:30.240 --> 00:27:32.560 Definitely, you know, we all know that we need that. 00:27:33.040 --> 00:27:37.100 But I think that, you know, it's just what we mentioned earlier. 00:27:37.420 --> 00:27:45.500 We just need to not come into this whole idea of the physical church with the same old mental maps that we had, 00:27:45.600 --> 00:27:47.780 because there are always going to be obstacles. 00:27:47.780 --> 00:27:53.080 And if we're right now in the middle of this, because of the crisis, thinking, 00:27:53.320 --> 00:27:56.720 I can't wait to hurry up and go back to normal, we already missed it. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:57.940 Yeah, that's right. 00:27:58.780 --> 00:27:59.100 Amen. 00:27:59.700 --> 00:28:00.160 So good. 00:28:02.100 --> 00:28:03.780 Okay, you're my new favorite person, Liz. 00:28:03.920 --> 00:28:04.380 It's awesome. 00:28:05.160 --> 00:28:06.860 Seriously, like, put her on the list. 00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:07.900 This is incredible. 00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:08.800 It's great. 00:28:08.940 --> 00:28:09.440 How funny. 00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:15.980 I think one of the tension points, and I would love to hear from maybe the group, Jeff, 00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:21.760 one of the tension points that we've found are the people who, you know, the circle people who really want butts in seats, 00:28:21.900 --> 00:28:25.400 who really are pushing for physical presence. 00:28:26.800 --> 00:28:35.040 And then the people who are saying, you know, I am just not comfortable with that amount of people, one, 00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:40.320 and I'm getting my needs met in a discipleship pathway through digital. 00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:47.100 I'm just wondering maybe how people in the group maybe have tried to reconcile the two. 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:51.480 Well, I tell you what, let me throw that question. 00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:55.880 I see John Howell's up here, at least if this is the John Howell that I'm thinking you are. 00:28:55.880 --> 00:29:01.340 John is actually one of these guys that's interested in planting a digital-only expression of church 00:29:01.340 --> 00:29:04.580 and is developing some platforms to do just that. 00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:08.040 And so I would be interested in John's take on that. 00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:20.200 Well, yeah, so I'd like to, if I can, I'll just share a little bit my experience. 00:29:20.340 --> 00:29:21.580 I am planting this church. 00:29:21.940 --> 00:29:28.800 It's entirely digital, but I went home to see my parents a couple of weeks ago. 00:29:28.800 --> 00:29:34.320 You know, I've told them what I'm doing, and sure, they understand, and like any good parent, they're supportive. 00:29:34.700 --> 00:29:41.080 But I watched them on a Sunday morning, watched their church service online. 00:29:41.340 --> 00:29:47.560 Then I watched one down in Florida where they like to go visit when they get too cold. 00:29:48.180 --> 00:29:52.260 And then they watched another service online. 00:29:52.640 --> 00:29:59.140 And I just thought to myself, what I'm watching is the exact experience that I went through as a kid 00:29:59.140 --> 00:30:02.740 when I had to teach them how to program a VCR. 00:30:03.540 --> 00:30:07.040 And then later on when I taught them how to program their DVR. 00:30:08.280 --> 00:30:12.540 And what happened was they've learned to transition their time away from, 00:30:13.060 --> 00:30:18.080 hey, I could go to church at this point in time to now they're realizing, 00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:23.200 hey, we can watch church at any time we want to, which is really exciting for them. 00:30:24.060 --> 00:30:28.400 In regards to the question you just asked, I think that this is really interesting 00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:38.300 because I think people are recognizing the value of the relationships in the local physical environment. 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:45.460 But they're also recognizing the joy and the freedom to be able to be digital everywhere. 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:53.540 And I think that that tension is really exciting because I think it's going to change the way we equip the people in the church 00:30:53.540 --> 00:30:54.180 and that sort of thing. 00:30:54.260 --> 00:30:59.680 I'm not sure that answers the question because I was thinking about the DVR stuff. 00:31:01.800 --> 00:31:03.800 I think that's a great answer to that question. 00:31:03.800 --> 00:31:15.180 I think for those of us who are proponents of digital, we've got to be able to develop language, 00:31:16.000 --> 00:31:24.080 almost an apologetic, that says here are benefits of this type of communication. 00:31:24.500 --> 00:31:28.220 You know, one of the words that we've really come to over the last few months, 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:31.320 we've gone back and forth, 00:31:31.320 --> 00:31:33.980 but one of the words that we've come to over the last three months is immersion. 00:31:35.120 --> 00:31:39.820 I think argument for people in the summertime, especially when we're in Europe, 00:31:40.060 --> 00:31:44.260 when we reopened, is there's just nothing like physical experience. 00:31:44.360 --> 00:31:47.840 And I think Matt said this, maybe Tyler, of the 65 minutes, 00:31:48.500 --> 00:31:59.780 it's an immersive experience where we're in control and we're completely setting the mood, 00:31:59.940 --> 00:32:00.820 setting the tone. 00:32:01.300 --> 00:32:02.780 It's a creative environment. 00:32:03.740 --> 00:32:13.540 So I think people in summer where we need to get people back because it's an immersive experience that is preferable to us. 00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:21.980 And I think what we really had to come to is the fact that digital can also be immersive in a different way. 00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:27.760 It's given us some legs to stand on and say, okay, digital is not inferior. 00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:29.940 Digital is different. 00:32:30.080 --> 00:32:31.600 And that's the topic of our conversation. 00:32:32.360 --> 00:32:36.640 Digital is different in that it is a different type of immersive experience. 00:32:37.640 --> 00:32:43.600 I hate to use a Disney analogy, but Jeff, I'm on your show, so it works out. 00:32:45.140 --> 00:32:51.640 It's a difference between watching the parade on Main Street and watching it on TV on ABC. 00:32:52.680 --> 00:32:54.940 It's a different thing, definitely. 00:32:55.240 --> 00:32:56.940 And they're both valuable and they're both great. 00:32:57.640 --> 00:32:59.080 I'm not saying church is a parade. 00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:00.280 I'm not saying church is Disney. 00:33:00.380 --> 00:33:01.760 That's just a terrible analogy. 00:33:02.020 --> 00:33:07.800 But what I am saying is that there's an in-person value and there's a digital value. 00:33:08.380 --> 00:33:11.100 And we've got to develop language to communicate digital value. 00:33:12.900 --> 00:33:26.860 What I think the attention towards digital brought is actually, and with losing the one hour on Sunday in the physical building in COVID, I think it brought more attention, I was alluded to earlier, towards your holistic entire process. 00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:31.720 You know, my parents, I'll talk about my dad here for a second. 00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:34.220 He's 70-something as well. 00:33:34.220 --> 00:33:40.820 And the church that they attend, it gets the campus they attend, it's kind of busy. 00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:41.660 It's packed. 00:33:41.800 --> 00:33:42.900 There's lots of people there. 00:33:43.420 --> 00:33:46.280 And my dad, God bless him, he's at the age that he's at. 00:33:46.360 --> 00:33:47.520 He doesn't like crowds. 00:33:48.320 --> 00:33:56.200 And so for him, they, I mean, I want to say maybe 90% of the church services they attend, they're attending digital only. 00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:01.400 They literally live half a mile away from the church campus. 00:34:01.660 --> 00:34:07.460 But they still have decided that in physical space, they're going to do that digital only. 00:34:07.660 --> 00:34:11.420 Now, questions arise, hey, what about community? 00:34:11.580 --> 00:34:12.440 How are they serving? 00:34:12.620 --> 00:34:13.020 How are they? 00:34:13.260 --> 00:34:15.080 And the answer is, they do all that. 00:34:15.720 --> 00:34:18.080 They are regularly in small groups. 00:34:18.220 --> 00:34:20.960 My mom, as I said earlier, leads multiple small groups. 00:34:20.960 --> 00:34:28.240 My dad is very active in serving the community in context of homeless ministry and different things. 00:34:29.100 --> 00:34:42.380 And what's interesting is if you check off kind of the, and I'm making fun of the situation here, but check off all the boxes of what it actually means to be a disciple, at least if you're taking the assimilation standpoint of it. 00:34:42.460 --> 00:34:46.120 My parents are very active in doing all those things, even if they're not in physical space. 00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:55.100 And so the opportunity and the understanding of, hey, there's more to just being a Christian than the small group. 00:34:55.160 --> 00:34:57.560 There's more to being an active member. 00:34:57.700 --> 00:35:04.380 There's more to being a disciple of Christ than just being a part of that gathering periodically. 00:35:04.380 --> 00:35:07.300 At this point, you know, pre-COVID, it was like 1.6 times a month. 00:35:07.960 --> 00:35:10.680 I think there's a better understanding of that now. 00:35:11.120 --> 00:35:28.360 But also at the same time, I think there's even a better standard that's in place now as we're seeing kind of the large services maybe lose some of their value in context of attendance, where now it's, hey, let's start to equip people to have spiritual conversations. 00:35:28.700 --> 00:35:36.740 Let's raise the standard of what we're calling a disciple and what we're going to challenge our church members to be. 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:52.140 And so I'm just curious, like, have you, any of you in the room or even raise your hand, if not, have you seen that or have you had any experience of, man, the physical is not as much of value now post-COVID as pre-COVID. 00:35:52.440 --> 00:35:56.580 So we're going to have to lean more on our people to go out there and share. 00:35:56.700 --> 00:35:58.580 What does that look like in context of your churches? 00:35:59.580 --> 00:36:00.840 Hey, Jeff, I'll jump in on that. 00:36:00.980 --> 00:36:01.420 That's great. 00:36:01.500 --> 00:36:08.360 I think to answer the first question, like, yeah, this is the opportunity to bust Christian consumerism for sure. 00:36:08.360 --> 00:36:18.860 Because what it's looked like for us is just equipping R99 to invest in their one, whether it's physically or digitally. 00:36:19.500 --> 00:36:29.740 And right now what we're discovering is most of our ones aren't interested in coming into a large gathering in a physical building. 00:36:29.740 --> 00:36:34.540 The ones who want to are your Christians who want to come back and have that experience again. 00:36:34.700 --> 00:36:46.180 And so what's been really, really helpful as we've gone through this journey and we've taken all of our training to how to invest in your one, you know, online, some in person as well. 00:36:47.580 --> 00:36:53.820 Go through this process, have our entire digital, our discipleship strategy, rather. 00:36:54.740 --> 00:36:56.840 You can do it online or in person. 00:36:57.620 --> 00:37:02.080 Get in a group, serve on a team, you know, serve your community. 00:37:03.520 --> 00:37:10.780 And then invest in your one, that's what we would say as someone who's a fully engaged individual at the Ridge. 00:37:12.740 --> 00:37:18.920 And use whatever tools your one will receive so that you can invest in them. 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:25.120 And that process, I think, has really allowed more people to be on mission. 00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.740 And so we've actually just unveiled a new vision statement at the Ridge. 00:37:28.800 --> 00:37:31.640 And that is, hey, our vision is to bring the hope of Jesus into every home. 00:37:32.400 --> 00:37:34.660 And that's... 00:37:34.660 --> 00:37:35.980 That's so great, man. 00:37:36.000 --> 00:37:37.320 Yeah, it's fun. 00:37:37.680 --> 00:37:38.460 It's exciting. 00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:39.700 We're excited to roll it out. 00:37:39.700 --> 00:37:46.000 And so we know it's going to happen by multiplying disciples, multiplying leaders, and multiplying networks of churches. 00:37:46.200 --> 00:37:47.600 I mean, that's the only way that that could happen. 00:37:48.420 --> 00:37:55.340 And so, you know, using digital and physical tools to get that done. 00:37:55.440 --> 00:37:56.920 So it's really just... 00:37:56.920 --> 00:38:06.000 For us, the effort has been more on how do we equip our 99 to get them focused on their one and then give them the tools to go after it. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:09.420 And so let them be the heroes rather than the Ridge. 00:38:12.620 --> 00:38:13.220 Love that. 00:38:13.340 --> 00:38:14.900 Any other thoughts or comments on that? 00:38:15.020 --> 00:38:16.140 Thanks for sharing that, Tyler. 00:38:20.180 --> 00:38:23.300 Well, I tell you what, Grant, you raised your hand a while back, brought you up. 00:38:23.420 --> 00:38:27.960 I don't remember if we actually ever got to you for you to share what you were thinking. 00:38:28.240 --> 00:38:30.160 So, man, what are you thinking about? 00:38:30.520 --> 00:38:32.360 Physical, digital, how they're different. 00:38:33.660 --> 00:38:34.560 Yeah, absolutely. 00:38:34.800 --> 00:38:38.580 Yeah, actually, I got out of this group for a little bit. 00:38:38.900 --> 00:38:40.180 My wife texted me SOS. 00:38:40.880 --> 00:38:42.800 And I was like, oh, snap, what's happening? 00:38:43.220 --> 00:38:45.460 And it was just her wanting to say hi. 00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:48.040 So, you know, the work from home life, right? 00:38:50.160 --> 00:38:54.400 But yeah, I'm pretty curious just on like your guys' thoughts. 00:38:54.600 --> 00:38:56.440 I mean, I work for Subsplash. 00:38:56.540 --> 00:38:58.700 It's a Christian tech company, really helping churches. 00:38:59.220 --> 00:39:02.560 And I was curious on how are y'all defining engagement? 00:39:02.560 --> 00:39:08.560 I feel like it's going to slowly become a buzzword as we continue to do both digital and physical. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.760 But we'd love to hear y'all's thoughts as pastors and y'all's communities. 00:39:13.040 --> 00:39:14.820 Like, how are y'all defining engagement? 00:39:14.980 --> 00:39:17.880 What does successful engagement look like for you guys? 00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:21.360 Yeah, it's been a buzzword for about a year now. 00:39:21.940 --> 00:39:24.080 It's already achieved mega buzzword. 00:39:25.120 --> 00:39:29.100 And I love having, you know, I saw Shannon in here also from Subsplash. 00:39:29.180 --> 00:39:31.900 I love having some Subsplash people out there. 00:39:32.700 --> 00:39:34.260 Hey, yeah, so open it up. 00:39:34.340 --> 00:39:40.020 Or even from the room, how do you guys evaluate or how do you define engagement? 00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:43.060 Raise your hand if you want to speak into that or I'll open it up for the panel. 00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:48.880 Grant, I would say this real quickly. 00:39:49.020 --> 00:39:54.860 It's one of the most difficult things for us to unlock in last year because it's so subjective. 00:39:55.820 --> 00:39:57.760 What we're trying to do is get objective measures. 00:39:58.000 --> 00:40:06.840 And so in a practical sense, we're looking at not just how many people are attending digitally, it's for how long. 00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:11.560 You know, are they just driving by and they're off in a minute or do they stay after a minute? 00:40:11.620 --> 00:40:12.980 How long are they engaging with the content? 00:40:13.160 --> 00:40:13.720 So that's one. 00:40:15.140 --> 00:40:18.340 Two is, are obviously likes and subscribes. 00:40:18.500 --> 00:40:21.520 You know, that's, that's one that's obvious to everybody here. 00:40:21.620 --> 00:40:26.280 But then other, others are, have you, have you asked for prayer? 00:40:26.700 --> 00:40:29.260 You know, are you engaging in that way? 00:40:29.900 --> 00:40:34.000 Are you generous in your, in your giving? 00:40:34.160 --> 00:40:36.220 Have you gotten into a small group? 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:36.840 Those kinds of things. 00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:48.540 I mean, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's generally same church stuff, but, but the, I think the biggest one for us was the generosity and the length of time interacting in the thing. 00:40:51.700 --> 00:40:54.320 Well said, well said, anybody else? 00:40:54.320 --> 00:41:02.380 I think for us, when we look at our pathway of where they're at and levels of engagement, we measure there. 00:41:02.540 --> 00:41:05.340 For us, our needed database is a big step. 00:41:05.340 --> 00:41:10.740 If we're connecting with new people and they're trusting us with some level of information, that's a, that's a big deal. 00:41:11.240 --> 00:41:23.600 And then moving in all the way down to someone that we would say who is fully engaged, which is probably one of our smaller numbers, but we're tracking is someone who's doing the four facets of our discipleship model that I mentioned earlier. 00:41:23.600 --> 00:41:27.540 Are they, you know, regularly attending weekly services? 00:41:27.660 --> 00:41:31.600 We don't really have a super great way of tracking that, but are they also, are they in a group? 00:41:32.300 --> 00:41:33.820 Are they serving on a team? 00:41:34.120 --> 00:41:34.820 Are they giving? 00:41:35.580 --> 00:41:42.720 And then have they gone through our, our huddles to be equipped to invest in their one. 00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:49.020 And if someone knocks on all four of those, we would call them fully engaged at the Ridge. 00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:54.220 And I would say that there's really two types of engagement. 00:41:54.220 --> 00:42:00.720 And I think it was Steven who said this, that it's really still the same kind of things that you would look at as a church. 00:42:00.900 --> 00:42:03.320 You know, how many people are engaged in the mission? 00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:15.020 How many people are taking, you know, their next steps into that whole process of discipleship instead of just, you know, funneling people to events, you know, pointing people to Jesus. 00:42:15.160 --> 00:42:16.400 And how does that look like? 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:23.040 How are they embodying that in this time when, when we can't do things the way we used to do them? 00:42:23.220 --> 00:42:32.600 So, you know, cause there's the people inside the church that are coming through that we already know when they are showing up on our streams, but also the people that are outside the church. 00:42:32.600 --> 00:42:41.820 You know, how are you engaging the people that just heard about you because maybe you promoted your service and, and are new to your website or your email list. 00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:51.940 You know, how are you getting those people to, you know, how are you getting those people to, you know, celebrate community that they're engaged in some kind of small group that you've done digitally. 00:42:52.460 --> 00:43:01.780 You know, so they, they never were in anything and, and now they are, you know, how are you providing, you know, help with, with, with what they're going through in life, you know? 00:43:01.780 --> 00:43:07.640 So they never were a part of your church and now you, you helping them with something through this pandemic. 00:43:07.940 --> 00:43:16.980 So, so there's that type of engagement, but then what we've always looked at, which is, you know, how are you empowering people to live out their faith and, you know, things like that. 00:43:17.060 --> 00:43:27.300 So some things haven't changed, but I think at the end of the day, the thing that has changed the most is how much intentionality goes behind looking at engagement. 00:43:27.300 --> 00:43:29.260 I think before we were just too comfortable. 00:43:29.680 --> 00:43:33.340 People came to church on Sunday and we were happy with whatever showed up. 00:43:34.000 --> 00:43:43.240 And, and now people understand that just, you know, getting, you know, 500 people on a, on a service, on a, on a stream service doesn't mean that they were actually watching. 00:43:43.340 --> 00:43:46.180 They could have been, you know, playing with their kids and some other stuff. 00:43:46.280 --> 00:43:52.360 So there needs to be another level of engagement other than looking at the metrics of who's showing up to your stream. 00:43:52.780 --> 00:43:53.420 It's so good. 00:43:53.420 --> 00:43:56.620 Yeah, that's, that's really good there, Liz. 00:43:56.760 --> 00:43:58.500 And so let me, let me speak a little bit to that. 00:43:58.580 --> 00:44:02.240 If you've got questions, feel free to raise your hand talking about physical digital. 00:44:02.740 --> 00:44:05.560 We'll address another question after I'm done here. 00:44:05.660 --> 00:44:10.560 For, for me, engagement, I look at it as, as a two-way conversation. 00:44:10.720 --> 00:44:17.640 Steven, you and I had a conversation with some other pastors, I don't know, maybe a couple weeks ago talking about what a successful church is. 00:44:17.820 --> 00:44:26.720 And, and one of the takeaways for me on that conversation, how we define success, it was the idea of we want to get to one, a one-on-one relationship. 00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:28.460 Conversation as quick as possible. 00:44:28.460 --> 00:44:32.720 And for me, engagement is that engagement. 00:44:32.940 --> 00:44:36.780 I quite literally define it as a two-way conversation. 00:44:37.460 --> 00:44:40.420 And for me, I see this in biblical context. 00:44:41.100 --> 00:44:42.640 I mean, you can actually read John 6. 00:44:43.160 --> 00:44:50.540 You're probably pastors in this room who can preach this better than me, but it comes down towards, at the beginning of John 6, it's one of the feeding of the thousands. 00:44:51.020 --> 00:44:56.140 And Jesus had a large throng of people following him because he was meeting physical needs. 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:00.040 They were, they were consumers literally of a product. 00:45:00.480 --> 00:45:03.580 He was healing, but he was also serving them dinner. 00:45:03.760 --> 00:45:08.880 And so as a result of, of the meal and this, Jesus had followers. 00:45:08.880 --> 00:45:11.300 He had established reach. 00:45:11.500 --> 00:45:17.440 He connected with people by reaching them, but he didn't dialogue with them. 00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:19.500 He didn't talk about the spiritual things. 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:22.040 He didn't, he was meeting their physical needs. 00:45:22.040 --> 00:45:27.600 And as a result of it, he had followers who were wanting more. 00:45:28.060 --> 00:45:29.500 Everybody goes to bed the next night. 00:45:29.740 --> 00:45:32.420 In the morning, Jesus and the disciples go somewhere else. 00:45:32.920 --> 00:45:36.660 And what happens is that the crowd, they want more. 00:45:36.800 --> 00:45:39.200 They want more of their physical needs met. 00:45:39.300 --> 00:45:40.040 They want brunch. 00:45:40.360 --> 00:45:42.120 And so they go off to find Jesus. 00:45:42.440 --> 00:45:46.300 Jesus is done at this point, meeting physical needs. 00:45:46.780 --> 00:45:48.740 He starts talking spiritual things. 00:45:49.220 --> 00:45:52.640 He starts saying some crazy stuff like eat my flesh, drink my blood. 00:45:52.980 --> 00:45:59.680 And what's fascinating is, is through that engagement, through the dialogue, people left. 00:46:00.420 --> 00:46:05.240 Jesus at one point actually says, I think 660, something to the extent of, am I offending you? 00:46:05.640 --> 00:46:08.060 Because what he was saying was so drastic. 00:46:08.200 --> 00:46:09.640 People didn't understand it. 00:46:09.640 --> 00:46:13.560 To the point that the reach had been filtered away. 00:46:13.860 --> 00:46:19.340 And even to the point of some of the disciples left him at that point. 00:46:20.140 --> 00:46:24.740 And what Jesus was left with was a group that eventually would be the start of the church. 00:46:25.140 --> 00:46:28.720 It was the foundational piece that would go on and be the church of Acts. 00:46:29.300 --> 00:46:39.020 And so it was through the engagement, through that dialogue that Jesus created and eventually got to his disciples. 00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:43.300 So for me, I look at what we're doing online. 00:46:43.300 --> 00:46:49.720 And even just to reiterate some of the things that were said, it's not just about reach. 00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:57.660 It's not just about how many views I get on Facebook, which, by the way, is always going to inflate what you're getting. 00:46:58.060 --> 00:47:00.860 It's more about those conversations. 00:47:01.700 --> 00:47:03.240 The likes, the thumbs up emojis. 00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:04.460 The thumbs up emojis. 00:47:04.460 --> 00:47:05.380 All that's nice. 00:47:05.620 --> 00:47:10.720 But build a relationship with every one of those people who do give you a thumbs up emoji. 00:47:10.720 --> 00:47:11.980 Give you a heart emoji. 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:14.140 You have an excuse. 00:47:14.260 --> 00:47:14.880 You have it on Facebook. 00:47:15.000 --> 00:47:17.080 You've got their Facebook messenger ID. 00:47:17.760 --> 00:47:18.520 Message them directly. 00:47:18.780 --> 00:47:22.300 Ask what they need, how you can pray for them, and see what happens. 00:47:22.800 --> 00:47:29.140 You know, the worst thing that can happen is somebody can press the block key or the spam key or somebody can tell you to blow off. 00:47:29.360 --> 00:47:35.980 The best thing that can happen is you now are engaging in a conversation spiritually that maybe you didn't even have access to before. 00:47:36.620 --> 00:47:46.640 And so this is where this opportunity to dialogue on a one-on-one level and do ministry is so important to actually do a church digitally. 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:53.480 If you're not doing that, if you're not building relationships with people, you're not doing a digital church. 00:47:53.700 --> 00:47:56.640 You're doing a digital expression of a church service by broadcasting. 00:47:57.000 --> 00:48:01.100 You're the equivalent of a virtual VCR player on the Facebook TV. 00:48:02.220 --> 00:48:03.960 And, you know, maybe there's nothing wrong with that. 00:48:03.960 --> 00:48:05.920 You guys keep talking about VCRs. 00:48:05.940 --> 00:48:07.780 I'm not really sure what that is. 00:48:08.540 --> 00:48:08.900 Sorry. 00:48:09.240 --> 00:48:09.720 I'm just kidding. 00:48:09.900 --> 00:48:14.380 Is film, is that a better reference for you actually, Cutting? 00:48:14.840 --> 00:48:15.220 Nice. 00:48:15.540 --> 00:48:18.220 I mean, that's what I learned on in college. 00:48:18.340 --> 00:48:19.320 That's how old I am, man. 00:48:19.420 --> 00:48:23.860 It was like, you know, here's how you splice with a razor blade to cut film. 00:48:24.660 --> 00:48:25.140 That's awesome. 00:48:25.140 --> 00:48:26.540 Yeah, computers weren't so much. 00:48:26.600 --> 00:48:27.420 I'm old, bro. 00:48:27.760 --> 00:48:29.980 Sorry to derail the train. 00:48:30.420 --> 00:48:31.420 No, it's awesome. 00:48:32.020 --> 00:48:32.680 I'm done. 00:48:33.280 --> 00:48:34.520 What other questions? 00:48:34.620 --> 00:48:35.400 Let's open it up. 00:48:35.520 --> 00:48:36.940 You know, some new people are coming in the room. 00:48:37.700 --> 00:48:39.940 Physical, digital, questions, observations. 00:48:40.220 --> 00:48:42.300 Anybody from the room want to contribute or ask anything? 00:48:44.240 --> 00:48:44.520 Okay. 00:48:45.540 --> 00:48:53.200 For the panel up top here, while we're waiting for more, what's another issue of a pain point? 00:48:55.200 --> 00:48:57.180 Where is digital hurting us? 00:48:57.320 --> 00:49:01.240 Let's not be all digital, being all, you know, candy canes and flowers. 00:49:02.300 --> 00:49:05.500 Where does digital hurt in context of physical? 00:49:05.740 --> 00:49:08.380 Where is physical ministry better? 00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:13.940 I'll toss one out there, Jeff. 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:14.760 Yeah. 00:49:15.040 --> 00:49:15.500 Go for it. 00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:26.040 I think one of the things we've discovered in COVID is, you know, for all of the positives of digital ministry, how our people truly roast the occasion. 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:32.320 So many people are, and potentially more people than ever are a part of and engaged with the church. 00:49:32.320 --> 00:49:39.100 But fewer people than last year are actually attending the weekend with any kind of regularity. 00:49:39.700 --> 00:49:48.440 So I would say there was something about the habit and the social momentum of physical, of going to church. 00:49:48.660 --> 00:49:49.200 That's good. 00:49:49.260 --> 00:50:02.420 When at your time, at your weekend, the way that you planned it, the way you prepared your family to do it, the way you intended on doing it on Tuesday when you thought about what you were going to do that weekend, that we haven't solved for in the digital realm. 00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:13.740 And we're just seeing people's, like, they're having trouble doing what they want to do, be engaged with their church, in part because they can do it whenever they want to. 00:50:14.360 --> 00:50:19.060 But oftentimes they don't end up doing it for any number of great reasons. 00:50:19.120 --> 00:50:26.600 So I think it's habit is one of those things that the digital church hasn't figured out yet how to be as strong as the physical church on. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:31.460 Yeah, that's good. 00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:36.640 Not having – it's the bad side of – you can do the 168 hours. 00:50:37.100 --> 00:50:41.040 You can see what they really value, how much they value that service. 00:50:41.140 --> 00:50:46.160 When it's not, I got to do this at 9 o'clock on Sunday morning, it's I can just work this in whenever. 00:50:46.900 --> 00:50:54.600 Whenever always gets moved on to the next day, the next day, there starts to become things that are more important towards it. 00:50:54.960 --> 00:50:55.340 What else? 00:50:55.340 --> 00:51:01.500 What's another negative, maybe a challenge, an obstacle towards doing digital ministry? 00:51:03.260 --> 00:51:20.140 Well, I think another thing that comes to mind is kind of like goes along with what Matt was saying, just the habits and the commitment level when it comes to your volunteers serving three hours plus on a Sunday to, hey, let me tune in for 30 minutes. 00:51:20.820 --> 00:51:22.460 So I think that's going to be an adjustment. 00:51:22.460 --> 00:51:26.720 Like for me here in Austin, our church, we were able to meet back in person. 00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:29.400 And that's something that we're going through right now. 00:51:29.440 --> 00:51:36.240 It's just like, oh, people might have gotten a little accustomed to the hour, you know, Facebook live stream. 00:51:36.380 --> 00:51:42.280 Now it's like, okay, we need to have our setup team to be ready. 00:51:42.420 --> 00:51:43.580 We need to have parking ready. 00:51:43.580 --> 00:51:46.820 And like, you know, it really does go from an hour to three hours now. 00:51:48.600 --> 00:51:50.420 I agree with that. 00:51:50.440 --> 00:52:02.200 And I think another thing that I would add, and again, this existed even before everyone went digital, but it's that whole comparison, right, with other churches and other preachers. 00:52:02.200 --> 00:52:09.580 I mean, we had it before, but now that everybody has an opportunity to choose between, you know, what service they want to attend. 00:52:09.760 --> 00:52:31.680 I mean, I think it's just three times worse than it was before, because now the pastors and, you know, preachers in general are just looking at each other, but are telling each other, of course, and trying to rate themselves as who's the superstar preacher that will gather the most people on a Sunday morning digital service. 00:52:31.680 --> 00:52:34.460 So I think that's definitely one thing. 00:52:34.460 --> 00:52:44.600 And also, and many of you have mentioned this before as well, that whole, excuse me, relationship part, I think it does encourage isolation. 00:52:45.720 --> 00:52:54.680 And, you know, it's easy for people, especially if your default is an introverted person, to just say, you know what, I actually like this. 00:52:54.740 --> 00:52:56.100 I don't have to talk to anybody. 00:52:56.720 --> 00:53:16.360 So that's why it's so important to look at the platforms that you use as well, because there are some new ones that have been created that are able to kind of mimic what it would feel like if you were in an actual physical place, you know, like actually traveling to a table and picking a table and things like that. 00:53:16.380 --> 00:53:21.140 But again, if your default is introversion, then, you know, this is like heaven for you. 00:53:23.220 --> 00:53:23.940 So good. 00:53:24.060 --> 00:53:24.840 That's exactly right. 00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:25.860 It's so good. 00:53:26.700 --> 00:53:26.820 Yeah. 00:53:26.900 --> 00:53:28.420 Altered Live is one of those. 00:53:28.780 --> 00:53:36.620 And Liz, I don't know if that's specifically the one that you're referencing, but that's one that we've been doing a lot of work with at Stadia and are excited about. 00:53:36.780 --> 00:53:46.300 And actually, Tyler, who was just here, his church is doing an experiment with Altered Live, and we're helping some other churches kind of get facilitated, test the waters. 00:53:47.340 --> 00:53:57.020 And honestly, the hardest thing in all of church online, and I would call this a negative, is that you have people, it's easier for people to watch church in isolation. 00:53:58.140 --> 00:54:09.120 You can have, I had a church, I tell the story, had a church tell me Easter 2020, Monday, literally after Easter 2020, Jeff, you won't believe this, we had half a million people watching our church services online. 00:54:09.460 --> 00:54:09.960 It's phenomenal. 00:54:10.120 --> 00:54:10.700 Super excited. 00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:11.320 This is great. 00:54:11.820 --> 00:54:12.140 Celebrating. 00:54:12.220 --> 00:54:13.600 It was a massive win of God. 00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:20.260 And so my follow-up question after congratulations was, hey, so how many people, Jeff, fill out connection cards? 00:54:20.260 --> 00:54:22.620 Like, what does the ongoing ministry look like? 00:54:22.960 --> 00:54:24.540 And his answer was 11. 00:54:25.280 --> 00:54:27.860 So we had half a million viewers, whatever the multiplier, I don't know. 00:54:27.940 --> 00:54:33.780 It was a whole buttload of people, but they only had 11 names of people to do tangible, physical ministry with afterwards. 00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:35.500 So that's the risk. 00:54:35.580 --> 00:54:57.880 That's the damage of church online, which is why we're really pushing relational aspects and did a podcast even last week for a clubhouse about thinking above the funnel, trying to understand how to connect with people even before that church service front door, physically or digitally, so that you can meet them, build that relationship, and give that, 00:54:57.900 --> 00:54:59.400 value towards it, and value towards it. 00:54:59.400 --> 00:55:18.100 So that's so important to not let people be living a life of church in isolation, even if it means training people to have conversations with their friends about faith, and then utilizing their friends to reach into their networks to evangelize and to share towards that. 00:55:18.460 --> 00:55:24.900 So, hey, we've got Scott. 00:55:24.900 --> 00:55:27.460 Scott, if you want to come up more than willing to do that, there is that button. 00:55:27.980 --> 00:55:29.640 So Scott's got a question. 00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:30.460 We'll let him speak. 00:55:30.940 --> 00:55:32.680 Scott, as soon as you come up, what are you thinking? 00:55:33.800 --> 00:55:34.240 Yeah. 00:55:34.460 --> 00:55:37.380 Hey, I have loved the conversation. 00:55:37.980 --> 00:55:47.420 We are in the process in our church community of just kind of expanding our online ministry and just really dreaming about kind of what that looks like. 00:55:48.460 --> 00:56:02.260 But, you know, one of the opportunities that has been heavy on my heart that has really excited me is just the opportunity that exists, I guess, in bringing the physical and the digital church together. 00:56:02.260 --> 00:56:08.840 And the opportunity that exists in really empowering our people to be digital missionaries. 00:56:09.980 --> 00:56:14.720 And I think there's just such a tremendous opportunity that exists there. 00:56:15.580 --> 00:56:25.300 Looking at some of the statistics, you know, and the dwindling numbers of people that are actually walking through the doors of church every week. 00:56:26.080 --> 00:56:28.700 And yet the growing number of people that are online. 00:56:28.700 --> 00:56:46.800 And I think you look at people's social circles and just the opportunity that exists for people in their own circle to begin to live the Great Commission and to do what Jesus called us to do in going and making disciples of all nations. 00:56:46.800 --> 00:56:55.800 And people that we as leaders of the church may never have contact with, but that our people have contact with in their social media circles, et cetera. 00:56:56.140 --> 00:57:06.260 And the opportunity that we have to equip those people, again, to be digital missionaries and to share the love of Jesus in their circles. 00:57:08.040 --> 00:57:15.080 And so anyways, I'm just really excited about that opportunity and would love to hear you guys' thoughts on some of that as well. 00:57:15.080 --> 00:57:15.580 Yeah. 00:57:16.800 --> 00:57:20.680 Personally, I'm a huge fan of the digital missionary. 00:57:20.900 --> 00:57:22.720 Matt, I'm going to throw off to you in one second. 00:57:22.800 --> 00:57:23.840 I was actually going to call you. 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:37.360 Like, I just, I think that digital discipleship is ripe for this possibility of starting to connect with people, build that relationship, and get them to understand who Christ is. 00:57:37.360 --> 00:57:41.240 But then also, at the same time, challenge them to share with others. 00:57:41.240 --> 00:57:56.100 And there's a whole discipleship system that's more driven towards obedience, where it's obedience-based discipleship, where it's more towards, let me train you with a simple system of how to share your faith so that you can share it with others who can share it with others. 00:57:56.300 --> 00:57:58.220 And that's probably another conversation. 00:57:58.340 --> 00:58:05.060 But I know, Matt, like, you guys have done some work recently on this, especially in context of the guides, I think, right? 00:58:05.140 --> 00:58:08.480 Like, what would something like this look like over at Crossroads? 00:58:09.480 --> 00:58:09.760 Yeah. 00:58:11.500 --> 00:58:14.660 Well, one, I mean, I just, Scott, you're preaching. 00:58:14.980 --> 00:58:25.040 I mean, I just think there's something about that priesthood of all believers, where, like, the people who are in our church actually get to play. 00:58:25.440 --> 00:58:36.520 Like, what a crazy thing, what a sleeping giant we have in most of our churches where, you know, the average person at most is just coming to our events. 00:58:36.520 --> 00:58:46.340 And I think, man, what if we woke up all these people and we had equipped them, you know, to be the priesthood of all believers? 00:58:46.440 --> 00:58:49.740 And I used to use the analogy of Uber, of all things. 00:58:49.920 --> 00:58:59.700 Like, Uber, to me, is, like, this marketplace version of the priesthood of all believers, because here, somehow, they have equipped millions of people to become drivers for their company. 00:59:00.200 --> 00:59:04.760 And now, like, current, maybe bad news about Uber aside, like, largely who weren't employees. 00:59:05.220 --> 00:59:16.500 But so, like, it's this perfect digital enterprise where it's a mixture of their own assets, like their car, or in our case, in churches, people's houses, dining room tables, jobs, whatever the case may be. 00:59:16.780 --> 00:59:23.360 And they leverage those to go provide value for other people and share the gospel of Uber, which is a little goofy. 00:59:23.520 --> 00:59:25.700 But they do it with such few rules. 00:59:25.780 --> 00:59:27.300 Like, the app makes it possible. 00:59:27.880 --> 00:59:31.640 But then the basic idea is, you know, get this person from point A to point B. 00:59:31.640 --> 00:59:36.640 And I just think about how we could equip people to do discipleship at scale. 00:59:36.920 --> 00:59:46.700 Could we ever, as churches, get really specific about what the, just a couple of core actions there are that we want people to take and then equip them to do that? 00:59:46.780 --> 00:59:59.260 I think most people don't opt into this journey because we make it feel really overwhelming and we make it feel like you've got to have a master's degree in theology to make it work. 00:59:59.600 --> 01:00:01.540 And we all know that's not true. 01:00:01.620 --> 01:00:03.420 But I think that's sometimes how we talk about it. 01:00:03.420 --> 01:00:06.260 So we, Jeff, you asked about guides at Crossroads. 01:00:06.540 --> 01:00:20.600 Like, we launched this, I mean, it's not our concept, but we want everyone at Crossroads to have at least one person they know who they can ask a question of and find out how to take a next step. 01:00:21.040 --> 01:00:30.660 And in fact, that one person would actually have that person's interest in mind and oftentimes even be, you know, offering options of the next step. 01:00:30.660 --> 01:00:48.420 So we try, you know, at our last leader summit, so whether you're a volunteer leader, a group leader, any kind of leader at Crossroads, we invited people to, in their own context, wherever they already currently serve, begin operating like a guide. 01:00:48.960 --> 01:00:59.700 And so we tried to boil that down for people to this acronym of LOC, like we want you to be welcoming, available, listening, and knowing, you know. 01:00:59.700 --> 01:01:02.980 And it's really no more than just being a good friend. 01:01:02.980 --> 01:01:14.640 But just to, like, put some definition around it gave people an opportunity to really be on the lookout for other people and feel like we were honoring that activity. 01:01:15.140 --> 01:01:26.440 And if they were on the lookout for other people and they were helping people take a next step with God, I mean, that's way more meaningful and transformative than maybe the ways that they were volunteering before. 01:01:26.600 --> 01:01:28.840 So we're trying to adopt that into our culture. 01:01:29.080 --> 01:01:44.220 We just happened to name it guiding so that people had a thing they could grab hold of and created this WALK acronym just again so that we could try to make it sound like it's something you could do inside of your already existing lifestyle. 01:01:48.360 --> 01:01:55.740 But, by the way, what he described with Uber, there's an idea in church. 01:01:55.740 --> 01:01:57.080 It's called church's platform. 01:01:57.080 --> 01:02:03.500 And the idea is surrounded by the concept of companies like Airbnb and Uber. 01:02:03.700 --> 01:02:08.820 They didn't get to be successful by improving their product. 01:02:10.280 --> 01:02:15.560 Airbnb, by default, they made more pre-COVID than the top five hotel chains combined. 01:02:15.680 --> 01:02:16.620 They don't own property. 01:02:17.080 --> 01:02:19.780 They don't have a concierge team. 01:02:19.860 --> 01:02:21.520 They don't have a cleaning service crew. 01:02:22.560 --> 01:02:25.380 They equip others to do what they want to do. 01:02:25.480 --> 01:02:27.280 You want to lease out your guest room. 01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:30.780 You go through Airbnb and Airbnb makes a cut of it. 01:02:30.860 --> 01:02:34.400 But then they equip you with the ability to do that. 01:02:34.880 --> 01:02:36.540 And there's a really fascinating concept. 01:02:36.540 --> 01:02:42.540 I've spent a lot of time blogging and podcasting and talking about church as a church as platform. 01:02:44.160 --> 01:02:57.180 Where if we as a church, if we didn't gauge our success off the one hour on Sunday, but instead what if we encouraged people to get out of the building, get into the community, and be the church on Sundays? 01:02:57.420 --> 01:03:09.200 Maybe even doing their own expressions of church in a community format somewhere out and about whatever their circle of influence that they feel led to. 01:03:09.540 --> 01:03:09.820 You're right. 01:03:09.840 --> 01:03:12.200 It does get really into that priesthood of believers idea. 01:03:13.140 --> 01:03:18.620 And I love that concept because I think that we have a challenge to raise people up. 01:03:18.740 --> 01:03:20.420 Let's maybe – I feel bad saying this. 01:03:20.460 --> 01:03:21.680 Sometimes people take it the wrong way. 01:03:21.920 --> 01:03:32.920 Let's lower the standard of church, maybe not from an ecclesiological, from a biblical standpoint, but from what – how it operates and all the pricing that's involved in it. 01:03:32.940 --> 01:03:36.480 Let's lower that standard, but let's raise the level of disciple-making. 01:03:36.900 --> 01:03:39.060 And so there's a link in my bio. 01:03:39.660 --> 01:03:41.720 It's thechurch.digital.plash platform. 01:03:41.840 --> 01:03:46.500 If you want more information on that, we'd love for you to click that and kind of explore the resources that are there. 01:03:46.600 --> 01:03:48.460 Stephen, you were asking something. 01:03:48.560 --> 01:03:49.020 What are you thinking? 01:03:49.420 --> 01:03:50.580 Just – I wanted to comment. 01:03:50.760 --> 01:03:54.380 We've got baseball here in just a second, but I wanted to say something dramatic and then leave. 01:03:54.920 --> 01:03:55.580 I'm just kidding. 01:03:56.960 --> 01:04:03.140 The thing that Matt said a second ago I think is so great with the analogy to Uber. 01:04:03.220 --> 01:04:04.100 I think it's right on. 01:04:04.100 --> 01:04:07.720 I think when you came back and you're able to say, okay, this is – this is it. 01:04:07.760 --> 01:04:09.960 The word democratization comes to mind. 01:04:10.740 --> 01:04:13.200 I think we see some reflection points in history. 01:04:13.660 --> 01:04:21.980 So this is a dramatic part that we could be living in some type of neo-Reformation moment or something analogous to the Reformation. 01:04:22.380 --> 01:04:28.600 You know, you've got William Tyndale right after the printing press, right after Luther making portable Bibles. 01:04:28.860 --> 01:04:31.000 So he invented the handheld Bible. 01:04:31.940 --> 01:04:34.780 What a technological advance for the church. 01:04:35.820 --> 01:04:45.480 It literally put God's word in the hands of the people in plain English and in their tongue. 01:04:45.920 --> 01:04:55.700 I think what we're seeing with digital is maybe one step closer to an even more democratized personal type of church. 01:04:55.800 --> 01:04:57.320 I think it needs more study, of course. 01:04:57.800 --> 01:04:58.940 I think it needs more time. 01:04:59.640 --> 01:05:05.700 But some of the same notes in that song are being played, I think, through the last year. 01:05:07.120 --> 01:05:08.180 Well said. 01:05:09.500 --> 01:05:13.760 Hey, so we've got a couple more minutes or a couple more questions. 01:05:14.520 --> 01:05:16.060 So who's got a question? 01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:17.600 Anything else that we can address? 01:05:20.540 --> 01:05:22.380 Raise the hand and we'll bring you up. 01:05:23.460 --> 01:05:27.440 Sorry to see Steven go, but baseball is what baseball is. 01:05:29.120 --> 01:05:30.440 Elizabeth, was this helpful? 01:05:30.820 --> 01:05:32.260 What else do we need to hit? 01:05:32.340 --> 01:05:34.420 Is there any other questions or thoughts that you want to add? 01:05:36.880 --> 01:05:39.540 No, I think this was helpful and I'm glad to see. 01:05:39.700 --> 01:05:42.480 Again, you know, I had invited some friends. 01:05:43.220 --> 01:05:49.660 Louis is on, which, you know, he's a pastor and I wanted him to, and Pastor David as well, 01:05:50.100 --> 01:05:53.460 to just hear a little bit more about this whole digital thing. 01:05:53.460 --> 01:05:56.420 And I think it's just something that is not going away. 01:05:56.620 --> 01:05:59.860 And I'm just grateful for the opportunity to share a little bit more about it and learn 01:05:59.860 --> 01:06:00.440 from other people. 01:06:01.640 --> 01:06:02.040 Awesome. 01:06:02.280 --> 01:06:07.240 Well, I'm definitely, you know, through Stadia, through the Church Digital, through being 01:06:07.240 --> 01:06:12.600 a guy in South Florida, would love to, you know, resource anybody towards this. 01:06:12.760 --> 01:06:17.200 So questions on it, my personal infos in my bio, would love to connect up. 01:06:17.580 --> 01:06:20.900 Hey, Chris, I know just right as I was rapping, I saw you raise your hand. 01:06:21.380 --> 01:06:22.200 What are you thinking, sir? 01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:25.520 Hi, I just had a question for Matt. 01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:29.840 Could you repeat that WALK acronym again for me? 01:06:30.080 --> 01:06:31.220 I missed some of it. 01:06:32.880 --> 01:06:33.820 Yeah, Chris. 01:06:33.940 --> 01:06:40.940 So we, so it's, it's welcoming, available, listening, and knowing. 01:06:41.200 --> 01:06:46.920 And the quick unpack there is obviously, welcoming is just the friendly aspect of that. 01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:49.720 Like you want to be the person people want to be around. 01:06:50.500 --> 01:06:53.380 You encouraging, life-giving, all those things. 01:06:53.600 --> 01:07:00.000 Available is, as a Jesus follower, do you have any margin in your life? 01:07:00.200 --> 01:07:05.420 Have you built in any availability where you're actually available to other people? 01:07:05.600 --> 01:07:08.420 Which we know is so rare in our culture today. 01:07:08.800 --> 01:07:10.360 And listening is just that. 01:07:10.560 --> 01:07:12.280 It's just, are you legit? 01:07:13.100 --> 01:07:17.060 Listening, not just the way people say, but the things behind it. 01:07:17.060 --> 01:07:24.180 So that you can use the knowing, the knowledge you have about Crossroads and Jesus 01:07:24.180 --> 01:07:28.460 to offer a next step to that person. 01:07:29.100 --> 01:07:31.580 So welcoming, available, listening, knowing. 01:07:34.140 --> 01:07:35.620 Thank you, thank you so much. 01:07:36.380 --> 01:07:41.980 Yeah, hey, if Chris, or Chris, yeah, if you didn't get that, hit me up through Crossroads. 01:07:42.060 --> 01:07:42.900 I wrote it down here. 01:07:43.020 --> 01:07:44.680 Don't die if you're driving. 01:07:44.900 --> 01:07:46.440 Just, that's probably a bad thing. 01:07:47.280 --> 01:07:50.780 But looking forward to hearing and helping you if I can. 01:07:51.300 --> 01:07:52.920 Hey, this has been a great time. 01:07:54.020 --> 01:07:59.160 Rather than just drawing it out, man, I'd love to land on a strong note. 01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:03.840 See, what's interesting, sometimes with Clubhouse, I've seen these conversations go like two, 01:08:03.840 --> 01:08:05.200 three, four hours long. 01:08:05.200 --> 01:08:09.240 I actually started a room once that ended up going over four hours. 01:08:09.680 --> 01:08:14.460 And actually, I handed it over three or four times for other people to kind of dialogue 01:08:14.460 --> 01:08:14.980 through. 01:08:16.120 --> 01:08:18.260 But I'm not feeling it today with this one. 01:08:18.360 --> 01:08:20.220 I think we ended this one strong. 01:08:20.640 --> 01:08:28.800 Here with myself, at least anyway, I will always do a room at five o'clock Eastern on Thursday. 01:08:29.220 --> 01:08:37.020 So there'll be some sort of digital church, digital church topic that we will hit every Thursday. 01:08:38.020 --> 01:08:40.840 I'm actually trying to remember what I'm doing next week. 01:08:40.920 --> 01:08:42.500 Let me look real quick on that. 01:08:43.240 --> 01:08:46.480 Tuesday, I'm actually doing a conversation on the church and mental health. 01:08:47.000 --> 01:08:48.740 And so that'll be Tuesday. 01:08:49.220 --> 01:08:49.400 That's great. 01:08:50.240 --> 01:08:50.700 Oh, yeah. 01:08:50.820 --> 01:08:52.400 Like that's what's interesting. 01:08:52.480 --> 01:08:54.240 We're doing a podcast on Monday. 01:08:54.320 --> 01:08:57.540 And the conversation was so rich when it'll release. 01:08:57.680 --> 01:09:00.080 We recorded the podcast already, but we're so rich on Monday. 01:09:00.360 --> 01:09:02.580 It was like, hey, let's get everybody together. 01:09:02.580 --> 01:09:06.240 And we'll do a panel and kind of once again, Q&A and dialogue on that. 01:09:06.760 --> 01:09:09.460 So it's going to be Mindy Caliguire, who's with Soul Care. 01:09:10.160 --> 01:09:16.180 It's a completely online biblical counseling kind of therapy thing. 01:09:17.020 --> 01:09:20.520 And some other people are speaking to it. 01:09:20.560 --> 01:09:25.100 Andrea Feldman, who's a digital pastor at a church in Kentucky, who just is very passionate 01:09:25.100 --> 01:09:28.700 about the church and mental health and exploring that space. 01:09:28.780 --> 01:09:31.100 So that's happening on Tuesday and Thursday. 01:09:31.640 --> 01:09:33.700 We're talking about digital only expressions of church. 01:09:34.120 --> 01:09:40.340 We'll have some people on who are literally doing digital churches that have no physical 01:09:40.340 --> 01:09:40.920 footprints. 01:09:41.440 --> 01:09:50.240 DJ Soto and VR Church, Angela Craig, who does Pursuit Church Live on Facebook, Daniel Heron, 01:09:50.300 --> 01:09:53.300 who's done one in Roblox, and some others who kind of jump on. 01:09:53.340 --> 01:09:54.500 And we'll have that conversation. 01:09:54.880 --> 01:09:56.360 So more coming soon. 01:09:56.860 --> 01:09:58.760 Definitely excited about this. 01:09:58.780 --> 01:10:04.340 This conversation will be available on demand through the Church Digital Podcast at some 01:10:04.340 --> 01:10:08.000 point in the next week or so by the time we get that rolled out. 01:10:08.060 --> 01:10:10.780 But definitely looking forward to continuing to be a resource for you guys. 01:10:11.180 --> 01:10:14.620 If you have any questions that you want to see hit, would love to hear it. 01:10:14.700 --> 01:10:20.160 My cell phone number is in the bio as well, but it's 484-324-8724. 01:10:20.380 --> 01:10:22.180 So feel free to text. 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:24.900 I probably will not answer the phone. 01:10:25.380 --> 01:10:26.360 So text is nice. 01:10:27.020 --> 01:10:31.440 Or you can grab some time with me in there, my other information's in the bio. 01:10:32.140 --> 01:10:32.520 All right. 01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:37.980 Hey, for everybody that was part of this, for Stephen, who I had to leave, for Matt, for 01:10:37.980 --> 01:10:43.620 Elizabeth, for Scott, for Chris, and all the people who jumped up, thanks for jumping 01:10:43.620 --> 01:10:44.060 on this. 01:10:44.100 --> 01:10:44.580 Hey, you know what? 01:10:44.640 --> 01:10:45.340 Let me do this. 01:10:45.400 --> 01:10:52.460 And just Matt and Elizabeth, any closing thoughts here talking digital to physical as we're landing 01:10:52.460 --> 01:10:54.040 in the plane, anything you want to wrap up on? 01:10:56.060 --> 01:10:58.200 I would say, you know, don't be afraid. 01:10:58.400 --> 01:11:03.520 You know, every time that God allows something, something great comes about it. 01:11:03.620 --> 01:11:09.700 You know, we just have to continuously just change our mindsets, be open and see what God 01:11:09.700 --> 01:11:10.640 will do. 01:11:12.360 --> 01:11:12.760 Amen. 01:11:14.020 --> 01:11:15.400 Matt, anything on your side, man? 01:11:16.040 --> 01:11:17.440 Yeah, I just pile on to that. 01:11:17.640 --> 01:11:19.000 Liz, I think you're spot on. 01:11:19.740 --> 01:11:22.600 We have to remember, we follow a God who's building the church. 01:11:23.100 --> 01:11:24.640 We know that's not our job. 01:11:24.720 --> 01:11:25.360 That's his job. 01:11:25.420 --> 01:11:26.340 We get to do it with him. 01:11:26.420 --> 01:11:31.520 So let's follow where he leads and let's expect that the God who's constantly doing something 01:11:31.520 --> 01:11:33.880 new is doing something new today, too. 01:11:34.400 --> 01:11:38.140 It doesn't mean we just stop doing anything that we consider old. 01:11:38.620 --> 01:11:44.400 It means we just keep going to him and figuring out what is he making his church look like and 01:11:44.400 --> 01:11:47.300 how can we get as many people into the family of God as possible. 01:11:47.380 --> 01:11:49.380 It's exciting to do this together, too. 01:11:49.740 --> 01:11:54.460 And biblically, when we look at God, we see that God is on the move. 01:11:54.560 --> 01:11:59.860 All throughout scripture, God was never, he is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 01:12:00.100 --> 01:12:06.500 But as he moved and as he developed his people, like there was constant movement. 01:12:06.780 --> 01:12:11.400 And sometimes I feel like within the church, we've lost that. 01:12:11.680 --> 01:12:12.980 We've lost that view. 01:12:13.300 --> 01:12:19.680 And in fact, as a result of it, we've limited what God can be and what God can do through us. 01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:26.680 And so the idea, once again, from both of you of trying something new, of experiment, of challenging 01:12:26.680 --> 01:12:32.980 established norms, I think as long as it's biblical, I think God is honored through that. 01:12:33.060 --> 01:12:39.900 And we would love to see us challenge our churches and challenge these norms and get out there and 01:12:39.900 --> 01:12:41.220 try some different things. 01:12:41.300 --> 01:12:42.440 I'm not even making it about digital. 01:12:42.780 --> 01:12:47.560 I just think there's opportunities for us in the season as culture is accelerating our 01:12:47.560 --> 01:12:51.860 strategies to continue to connect with that culture needs to accelerate as well. 01:12:51.860 --> 01:12:57.400 And so thank you very much for Matt, for Elizabeth, for Tyler, for Stephen. 01:12:57.580 --> 01:13:00.200 This is Jeff with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planning. 01:13:00.620 --> 01:13:03.240 Hey, thanks for joining us, jumping into conversation here today. 01:13:03.540 --> 01:13:05.400 And we'll see you around next time. 01:13:05.660 --> 01:13:06.220 Y'all have a good day.