WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.540 You got Beta Show episode 25. Jeff here with The Church Digital. Once again, powered by Stadia 00:00:05.540 --> 00:00:09.800 Church Planning. I'm really excited about some of the stuff coming out of Stadia right now. We are 00:00:09.800 --> 00:00:16.620 working hard on helping plant digital-only churches. We've got about 20 planners going 00:00:16.620 --> 00:00:21.640 through Cohort right now, and some of them are the launch large model. I've got a guy that's 00:00:21.640 --> 00:00:26.920 wanting to plant a social media network. I've got another person that's co-vocational. He doesn't 00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:32.040 want to give up the day job. He wants to continue to do what he's doing and at the same time 00:00:32.040 --> 00:00:37.140 do digital ministry in a unique way. I've got another person that's coming in and getting 00:00:37.140 --> 00:00:42.960 started, and they're just wanting to experiment. They're not even sure on this whole digital 00:00:42.960 --> 00:00:47.400 discipleship thing if it's really effective. As a matter of fact, in the next cohort that 00:00:47.400 --> 00:00:53.140 we're starting here in a month or so, I've got four ladies that are coming on to learn 00:00:53.140 --> 00:00:58.540 how to be digital planters, to learn how to be digital pastors. And so this is the heart 00:00:58.540 --> 00:01:04.740 of Stadia. We're helping people plant digital-only expressions of church. Excited about it. Some 00:01:04.740 --> 00:01:12.420 crazy stuff. Check out stadiachurchplanting.org slash digital. Actually, check out thechurch.digital 00:01:12.420 --> 00:01:20.740 slash planting. More resources there. Tons of information. Thechurch.digital slash planting. Hey, 00:01:20.740 --> 00:01:26.340 let's get into beta show here with episode 25. We're going to talk crazy, but it's a beta 00:01:26.340 --> 00:01:30.020 show, so we've got to spin it in and we've got to make it practical. We're talking about 00:01:30.020 --> 00:01:34.540 cryptocurrency. We're talking about Doge. We're talking about Bitcoin. Ethereum. I don't even 00:01:34.540 --> 00:01:39.640 know what Ethereum is. NFTs. All of this crazy stuff that it's like, is this gambling? Is this 00:01:39.640 --> 00:01:47.560 for real? Is this legit? Is this a good thing? A, for the economy. What is this stuff and how does it 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:54.460 operate? But B, what role should this stuff play in the church? How should our church be thinking about 00:01:54.460 --> 00:02:00.580 things like Doge? You may not even know what Doge is. I'll be honest. I own $150 of Doge and I'm not 00:02:00.580 --> 00:02:05.360 even really sure I know what Doge is. And this is why I wanted to do this conversation because I don't 00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:10.700 know. And I wanted to find somebody who could help me not only understand for myself and my family, 00:02:10.780 --> 00:02:15.580 but for the church. And so I went to church futurist, Christian futurist, Nils Smith. 00:02:15.980 --> 00:02:22.400 And so Nils, no stranger to the podcast, been on quite a bit. No stranger to Ray and myself as well. 00:02:22.460 --> 00:02:27.960 He was very influential in both of our lives over the years. Loved the stuff that he's doing through 00:02:27.960 --> 00:02:34.380 Dunham and Company, helping consult with churches and organizations. Obviously, social media podcast, 00:02:34.500 --> 00:02:39.260 very popular. They've got a conference coming up, social media conference. So love the stuff that 00:02:39.260 --> 00:02:44.780 he's doing. But one of these conversations that I've had with Nils over the years is, what exactly is 00:02:44.780 --> 00:02:49.080 this cryptocurrency stuff? And it always was like the side conversation that we never actually spent 00:02:49.080 --> 00:02:54.060 time on. So it's like, hey, Nils, it's 2021. Church has got to figure this out. Let's spend some time 00:02:54.060 --> 00:02:59.900 and talk on it. And so he's going to go into it explaining what Bitcoin, what Ethereum, what Doge 00:02:59.900 --> 00:03:06.400 actually is, what these NFTs are, how the church needs to respond in the midst of some of these 00:03:06.400 --> 00:03:14.020 things, and how we can take advantage of it for ministry purposes. It's not tech for tech, it's tech 00:03:14.020 --> 00:03:18.200 for ministry. And so what does that even look like? And so we're bringing in for the conversation 00:03:18.200 --> 00:03:23.860 Nils Smith from Dunham & Co. and all sorts of incredible things that he's doing. And of course, 00:03:23.860 --> 00:03:29.180 Ray DeArmis, as well as co-hosts, in a conversation that I'm simply calling Crypto and the Church. 00:03:29.700 --> 00:03:33.840 Okay, everybody, here you go. What is New York City like these days, coming out of COVID, 00:03:34.460 --> 00:03:38.680 mid, post-COVID? Give us that New York City update. It's been such a hard year for you guys. 00:03:39.200 --> 00:03:42.180 Where are you right now? What does life look like in New York City? 00:03:42.700 --> 00:03:46.940 So my family just moved in New York City. We moved to a new neighborhood called Roosevelt Island. 00:03:47.120 --> 00:03:52.640 We're actually neighbors with Tim Keller, who I work with here in the city. And I say neighbors, 00:03:52.640 --> 00:03:58.680 we're in the building next to him. He's in a much nicer building than we are. But we, you know, 00:03:58.740 --> 00:04:03.340 New York City is, this is the best time of the year in New York City. The weather is great. 00:04:03.900 --> 00:04:09.320 People are out and about. The great thing is, is none of the rest of you people are here. So it's 00:04:09.320 --> 00:04:14.860 just us New Yorkers here. So we've got no tourists yet, really. I mean, you're starting to see them 00:04:14.860 --> 00:04:20.320 trickle in. I went to a Yankees game a couple nights ago, 20% occupancy, just spread out, 00:04:20.400 --> 00:04:26.960 got comfortable. But Yankees fans still, it felt like about 150% occupancy the way you've got caged 00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:35.060 Yankees fans that are getting out and about. And so New York City is alive. July 1st is when the 00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:40.500 mayor says that we will officially open up fully. That's awesome. It's New York City without the 00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:45.960 tourism. Like I just, I can't even like. Yes. It's, you know, the sad thing though, 00:04:45.960 --> 00:04:51.300 is about 50% of small businesses have closed in the city of like, you know, bodegas and restaurants 00:04:51.300 --> 00:04:57.120 and, and especially the kind of mom and pop shops. So you, that's, you know, I think that's the core 00:04:57.120 --> 00:05:02.060 of what, what, what, one of the things that makes New York, New York. It's a Broadway isn't yet open. 00:05:02.500 --> 00:05:06.660 Um, and, and you've seen, and it's just been sad to see a lot of these businesses that have been here 00:05:06.660 --> 00:05:12.500 for a hundred years, uh, that, that didn't make it through COVID and, and won't ever come back. Uh, 00:05:12.500 --> 00:05:17.400 but, but it's new things will come and new things will be birthed. And we, and we saw, you know, 00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:22.440 I talked to a pastor the other day. He estimates that about 30% of churches have closed down in New 00:05:22.440 --> 00:05:28.280 York city. Pastors have left. Um, and it's, you know, New York is a hard place to do anything. I was 00:05:28.280 --> 00:05:34.760 talking to a pastor friend, uh, who I went to the Yankees game with. Um, and, uh, he's a church 00:05:34.760 --> 00:05:40.880 planner and he basically, his church is gone. You know, he's replanting his church now. And he, uh, 00:05:40.880 --> 00:05:47.860 he 60% of his congregation is gone, is, is no longer in New York city. And, um, and so it's just a, 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:53.200 you know, we're, we're as, as affected as the rest of the country and world was New York city, 00:05:53.200 --> 00:05:59.260 probably, you know, um, most significantly in the U S but I think, you know, change creates 00:05:59.260 --> 00:06:03.340 opportunity too. And so whether, whether there's new business opportunity, there's new ministry 00:06:03.340 --> 00:06:11.000 opportunity. And, uh, we, we love, um, we love being, being here in the city and we love, uh, 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:16.920 I've had the privilege of stepping in and serving, serving my church Hillsong, uh, in this season and, 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:21.620 and, and excited for, we've got a new pastor coming in and, uh, moving here from Australia. 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:25.520 And he's got four daughters. And so we've got two daughters. So we've been kind of getting our 00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:31.920 families together and, uh, and just, you know, seeing life as, as somebody new from a new country, 00:06:31.920 --> 00:06:37.080 moving to New York city and helping them has been a fun experience as well. And, and things that you, 00:06:37.400 --> 00:06:43.400 as an American, uh, don't think, you know, like you, we don't, we don't realize that everybody 00:06:43.400 --> 00:06:47.780 doesn't think like us, uh, and how we do things and things that are, don't make sense to other 00:06:47.780 --> 00:06:53.760 people. Uh, so it's been fun. Um, but, and I'm just, I, I feel like I'm pinching myself in this 00:06:53.760 --> 00:06:58.920 season because it's, God's been good to our family. There's an interesting conversation that I want to 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:05.040 have here, uh, because there's this idea of, of cryptocurrency. We're talking Bitcoin. We're 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:13.740 talking, do I pronounce it dog, doggy, dog gay, like, okay. So look, I own $150 of Doge and I don't 00:07:13.740 --> 00:07:18.700 even know how to pronounce it. That is the level of introduction that we're coming in here talking 00:07:18.700 --> 00:07:24.380 about cryptocurrency, um, and the church. And so for that conversation, I wanted to bring in 00:07:24.380 --> 00:07:31.060 Neil Smith, uh, Neil Smith, who is talking about Dodge and Doge. And I just said sniff. That's a 00:07:31.060 --> 00:07:35.740 little weird. I just wanted to call it out publicly. We'll leave it in though. Uh, Neil Smith, um, 00:07:35.900 --> 00:07:41.780 Doge, uh, who's a futurist, uh, and we've had him on the podcast several times and he's always, 00:07:41.780 --> 00:07:45.240 it was always a pleasure. And he has tried several times to explain to me this whole 00:07:45.240 --> 00:07:50.700 cryptocurrency type stuff. And, um, I, it was always been like a side conversation. Like, 00:07:50.760 --> 00:07:53.300 yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Let's get back on topic. Well, it's like, well, it's actually 00:07:53.300 --> 00:07:57.860 legitimately have the conversation and figure it out. And I know there are other, I know there 00:07:57.860 --> 00:08:02.860 are churches that are wrestling with what to do with this cryptocurrency type things. Like 00:08:02.860 --> 00:08:07.920 there are some that, Hey, let's just take it as a, as let's set up a structure so that 00:08:07.920 --> 00:08:12.200 people can give. So if they do want to give, we can receive the, the, the tithe or the offering. 00:08:12.200 --> 00:08:14.940 And I know that there are some churches that are far more aggressive. So we even want to 00:08:14.940 --> 00:08:19.800 talk about maybe some of the strategies behind that. Uh, so that's the heart of the conversation 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.780 you're digging in with, uh, you know, Ray, of course, and, and Nils, but the, the heart 00:08:23.780 --> 00:08:27.140 of this, and let me just open this up because I, I, and there's even some of this stuff that, 00:08:27.260 --> 00:08:32.300 that I, I do not understand. Like, okay. So specifically just to start off, 00:08:32.340 --> 00:08:38.720 be basic. What is, what, what is cryptocurrency? What is this stuff that we're actually buying? 00:08:38.880 --> 00:08:41.300 Is there anything that we're actually buying? What is it? 00:08:41.900 --> 00:08:47.900 So I think, and I'll, I'll, I'll try to break it down. It's, it's still, uh, it's still so 00:08:47.900 --> 00:08:53.480 difficult to, to, to explain, but at the core, it's digital money. It's digital currency. 00:08:53.680 --> 00:08:58.160 And I think then what people go to is, isn't our money already digital? And theoretically we 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:04.260 are transacting it digitally, uh, but it does still exist physically it's printed. Uh, and then 00:09:04.260 --> 00:09:11.580 we, we transact, you know, a digital representation of that printed money. And, uh, and, and so what 00:09:11.580 --> 00:09:15.860 makes it digital is how it's then stored. It's stored on the blockchain, which is the technology 00:09:15.860 --> 00:09:22.520 that you'll hear. Um, and, and so it is basically money that's minted, uh, on this blockchain and 00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:29.680 then it's transacted. And all of those transactions stay within that, that platform that, that, that 00:09:29.680 --> 00:09:34.980 ledger. Um, and I think what's different in the other language you often hear around cryptocurrency 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:42.520 is it's decentralized. And so banking currently and money is transacted on a centralized server, 00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:47.760 um, and a centralized system of a bank where a decentralized system means it's a bunch of 00:09:47.760 --> 00:09:52.840 different machines that are processing the transactions. And so if one goes down, it's 00:09:52.840 --> 00:09:58.340 still stored on the other thousand machines and it, it doesn't, it isn't dependent on one 00:09:58.340 --> 00:10:03.180 server. And so there's a lot of technology parts that in many ways, nobody really needs 00:10:03.180 --> 00:10:08.100 to understand. Uh, what you need to understand is it's secure, it's stable, it's, you know, 00:10:08.180 --> 00:10:14.840 uh, exponential in many ways of it. We almost couldn't be here because technology wasn't ready 00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:20.160 for this historically. I think we all knew everything has been digitized. Blockchain technology 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:27.200 though has now created the technology infrastructure that makes sense for money to now be fully digitized. 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.920 And, uh, so that's, that's essentially what's happening, but, but you're now see Bitcoin, 00:10:32.080 --> 00:10:38.480 Dogecoin, a bunch of digital currencies, digital money, uh, have been created just like there's 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:43.800 us dollars and there's euros and there's pesos and there's, you know, you can, the list can go on of 00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:49.900 all the, the physical, you know, or the, you know, uh, I'd say country, uh, based currencies that are 00:10:49.900 --> 00:10:54.840 created. These are now internet based currencies, uh, that, that are being created in the land of the 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:59.140 internet, uh, which is what in many ways we all live in. And I say the technology is not important. 00:10:59.260 --> 00:11:04.340 The reality is, is who really knows how the internet works? You know, like we know that we have a computer 00:11:04.340 --> 00:11:09.420 that connects to the internet, which connects us to each other. And some of us get into the weeds of 00:11:09.420 --> 00:11:14.940 understanding servers and, and, you know, how the data is stored and then, you know, how we pull that. 00:11:15.040 --> 00:11:21.240 But most people just know, I go to google.com, I search in that search bar and this pulls up and it 00:11:21.240 --> 00:11:26.780 works and we trust it and it gets faster. It gets better. It's improved through the years. And that's 00:11:26.780 --> 00:11:31.020 what's happening with blockchain technology. It's a new technology system, uh, that's being used, 00:11:31.020 --> 00:11:36.680 but at the core it's a digital money. Uh, so you could almost basically say us dollars and you could 00:11:36.680 --> 00:11:44.220 say Bitcoin and their function is the same. It's just a different, uh, paper or digital stored on a 00:11:44.220 --> 00:11:50.200 central server, you know, transaction or on a decentralized blockchain. So I hope that's a bunch 00:11:50.200 --> 00:11:55.960 of words, uh, being brought together. Uh, but yeah, that's, that's cryptocurrency. 00:11:56.300 --> 00:12:02.060 Yeah, I think so. I think I'm getting it, but like, so decentralized is interesting to me. I 00:12:02.060 --> 00:12:06.700 understand the benefit of it not being in the centralized system, safer, decentralized and 00:12:06.700 --> 00:12:11.940 centralized, I would think. Insured, I'm guessing FDIC is somewhat involved in this. That might be 00:12:11.940 --> 00:12:18.520 another conversation, but my real question would be, um, so I, I literally, I bought, I'm not kidding. 00:12:18.620 --> 00:12:24.420 The other night I bought 150 doge coin at like, or $150 worth of doge coin. I think I bought it at 00:12:24.420 --> 00:12:28.820 65 cents. And of course it dropped to 60 cents immediately. So I've already lost money. Hey, 00:12:29.260 --> 00:12:35.360 congratulations on the gamble of life. You're a loser. Right. Um, but like, so if I invest in Intel, 00:12:36.000 --> 00:12:42.240 if I invest in Apple, like I'm watching Apple's product release, I'm, I'm reading, you know, 00:12:42.240 --> 00:12:48.220 news reports of what Apple is and I'm seeing how that's influencing other buyers, which is watching 00:12:48.220 --> 00:12:56.960 the stock go up and down. I've literally invested $150 into doge. I, I, I, who owns doge? Where did 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:03.320 doge come from? Like what, what actually is this thing? So, so I think what you're with the mistake 00:13:03.320 --> 00:13:10.180 you're making here is you're comparing a currency to a stock. And the reality is you'd actually be 00:13:10.180 --> 00:13:17.060 better comparing those to a U S dollar. So if you were to go get a hundred U S dollars and then you 00:13:17.060 --> 00:13:24.140 just put those aside and then how much are those U S dollars worth in a year? Well, the, the, they're 00:13:24.140 --> 00:13:28.920 still worth a hundred dollars, but the question really is, is if I were to exchange it for pesos 00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:36.120 or if I were to exchange it for euros, what would my exchange rate be? And so doge is basically an, 00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:43.280 it's a currency. And so what's the exchange rate for us dollars is really what is changing is the 00:13:43.280 --> 00:13:49.800 currency is just the currency. And so the question of the value is what the exchange rate is in the 00:13:49.800 --> 00:13:56.260 exchange rate is, is changing because of demand and how many people want doge at any given time. 00:13:56.260 --> 00:14:02.940 And that's typically driven by news. And so Mark Cuban has said, we're going to accept doge for 00:14:02.940 --> 00:14:08.120 tickets for Dallas Mavericks games. Well, that then creates like, Oh, this actually has a function 00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:14.160 so I can use it. And now it's worth more. Or Tesla has said, we accept Bitcoin for Tesla purchases. 00:14:14.160 --> 00:14:21.100 Well, you can now use that for more. And in many ways, people would rather have a, and so here's 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:25.940 the reality of the U S dollar, U S dollar. If you buy a hundred, you go and get a hundred physical 00:14:25.940 --> 00:14:30.780 U S dollars today, you're almost guaranteed that a year from now, it's going to be worth a little 00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:37.820 bit less. That exchange rate is going to drop, but Bitcoin continues to increase because, you know, 00:14:37.820 --> 00:14:43.580 there's lots of different logical reasons, but I think we know fiat currency is probably 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:48.420 going away. Digital currency is where things are going. It's a matter of which one is going to catch 00:14:48.420 --> 00:14:53.620 on. It's a matter of how quickly it catches on. Uh, but it is not a stock with something represented 00:14:53.620 --> 00:14:58.860 at the bottom of it. It is just a currency as a representation of value for exchange. Does that 00:14:58.860 --> 00:15:04.460 make sense? Yeah. As a general rule though, we've not seen like, I mean, you mentioned the Mavs, 00:15:04.460 --> 00:15:11.520 you mentioned, um, uh, Tesla, like it's few and far between. I can't walk into seven 11 and buy a Coke 00:15:11.520 --> 00:15:18.440 with, um, Bitcoin or something like that. So it's, it's not quite accepted yet, but we're, we're seeing 00:15:18.440 --> 00:15:23.620 more of a trend towards that direction to get it more accepted. Yeah, absolutely. And if you use the 00:15:23.620 --> 00:15:29.440 cash app, you can actually use it and it will show you which, um, which stores will accept, uh, 00:15:29.440 --> 00:15:34.240 Bitcoin now, uh, through the cash app. And it's, it's fantastic that, I mean, I think McDonald's 00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:38.900 actually accepts Bitcoin now and, uh, there are different things. And so the cash app is actually 00:15:38.900 --> 00:15:44.740 doing the exchange for you. And so they're actually paying them in USD. Uh, but they've 00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:50.300 created that kind of automation within their, within their system, uh, for those, those companies. 00:15:50.300 --> 00:15:56.240 And so, uh, you are seeing, uh, that, that integration, the challenge really, Jeff, is that 00:15:56.240 --> 00:16:01.840 it's, it's still very volatile is the word that you'll often hear, meaning the value is constantly 00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.260 changing. The exchange rate is changing so fast that where the U S dollar, you buy a hundred 00:16:06.260 --> 00:16:11.700 dollars, it's going to maybe be worth what would be equivalent to $99 today. It's not going to 00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:18.620 rapidly drop to like worth $80 and then $120 and then $72. And then, and that's what's happening 00:16:18.620 --> 00:16:23.540 with Bitcoin. And a lot of cryptocurrencies right now is they're, they're bouncing all over the 00:16:23.540 --> 00:16:30.100 place. And you don't, people don't net generally want a currency, uh, that's, that's not stable. 00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:36.180 I think what, what really makes a country stable is stability of their currency, um, and the value of 00:16:36.180 --> 00:16:41.760 that money that's being backed by that government. And so we, we haven't yet found that in 00:16:41.760 --> 00:16:47.380 cryptocurrency, but the more it's used and the more it's integrated, the more stable it will 00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:52.860 naturally become. And because Bitcoin has become the most popular and the most publicly, you know, 00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:59.080 used and being integrated, uh, that's where you've seen the value of Bitcoin grow most significantly 00:16:59.080 --> 00:17:05.240 and probably stability, uh, become most, uh, consistent, uh, with, with Bitcoin. You know, 00:17:05.240 --> 00:17:10.300 the, the crazy factor, Jeff, that, that continues to be exist with Bitcoin is we don't even know who 00:17:10.300 --> 00:17:15.420 created Bitcoin, which is just mind blowing. When you, when you think about like, we know who created 00:17:15.420 --> 00:17:22.840 the U S dollar, we know where it's printed. Uh, Bitcoin was created by, uh, a fictional character, 00:17:22.840 --> 00:17:28.720 um, and, uh, and probably multiple people, uh, that, that created it together on the internet 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:36.060 anonymously and now have essentially disappeared on the internet. And, uh, so to, to basically have our 00:17:36.060 --> 00:17:43.400 entire economic system, uh, built on something that we don't even know who created, uh, is, is, 00:17:43.400 --> 00:17:51.520 is probably the most bizarre fact of cryptocurrency, but, uh, but it's, it, the adoption rate continues to grow 00:17:51.520 --> 00:17:57.160 so rapidly. And one of the things that I've really enjoyed seeing is the excuses as to why this isn't the 00:17:57.160 --> 00:18:02.560 future is B are becoming less and less. Mark Cuban was kind of opposed to it. He's now fully in, uh, you're even 00:18:02.560 --> 00:18:08.600 seeing, um, Oh, Bill Gates has recently said, like, I fully buy into the cryptocurrency. It's just the, 00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:15.020 the, uh, environmental issues of mining machines and what that means for cryptocurrency. And so 00:18:15.020 --> 00:18:22.000 it's essentially just the, the, um, Warren Buffett is kind of the one holdout, uh, of, of, of opposition 00:18:22.000 --> 00:18:29.220 to, uh, to cryptocurrency, but yeah, it, it really is a phenomenon that that's growing, uh, so fast. 00:18:29.220 --> 00:18:35.680 And, and it, it, it's more a matter of when, uh, than if, and, uh, and how, uh, and what currency 00:18:35.680 --> 00:18:39.740 really becomes those key cryptocurrencies. I'm believing, and there's a lot of rumors that the 00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:45.620 U S is going to admit what they call the fed coin, uh, in the next couple of years. And, uh, time will 00:18:45.620 --> 00:18:51.820 tell China has kind of minted their, uh, cryptocurrency now. And so we're, we'll see what, uh, what the 00:18:51.820 --> 00:18:56.880 future holds, uh, for, for cryptocurrency. So Nils, let's get to the brass tacks of it all. Should 00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:03.400 pastors be afraid of cryptocurrency? Yeah. So it's a good question. You heard him. He said, yes, 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:08.780 he said, yes, the question. And he said, yeah, he said the thing, he said the thing run 00:19:08.780 --> 00:19:14.020 away. No, I'm kidding. We're good. So one, I, you know, and I heard somebody, uh, ask like, 00:19:14.020 --> 00:19:18.100 is this one world currency? Is this sign of the times? I think you can go down these paths 00:19:18.100 --> 00:19:22.480 of sign of the times. We could debate theology and, uh, different points of, I just don't 00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:27.300 know. The pastor should be that scared of the times. Um, and, and what that really means, 00:19:27.300 --> 00:19:32.140 but, but I do think that practically there, there are some alignment, you know, if you were 00:19:32.140 --> 00:19:36.280 to read into that, uh, the reality is we're talking about money here, you know, we're talking 00:19:36.280 --> 00:19:41.460 about, are we talking about paper money or digital money? And if people want to, you know, from 00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:45.620 a church perspective, if they want to give in digital money versus physical money, churches 00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:50.060 fought for years of like, no, you've got to pass the plates. We don't want to take credit 00:19:50.060 --> 00:19:53.520 cards because there's transaction fees, or we don't want to take credit, you know, whatever 00:19:53.520 --> 00:19:58.100 it might be because Dave Ramsey said, we don't take credit cards. Well, the reality is 00:19:58.100 --> 00:20:02.880 if people want to give in this way and that's how they transact money. I mean, think about 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:07.020 how ridiculous it would be for a church today to say, we're still, we're going to not do 00:20:07.020 --> 00:20:14.220 credit cards, um, because we're opposed to digital transactions, um, for whatever reason 00:20:14.220 --> 00:20:18.920 or transaction fees or whatever that might be. What the reality is, I think where, where 00:20:18.920 --> 00:20:23.820 churches need to, and just to be definitive of where I think it fits into churches today, 00:20:23.820 --> 00:20:31.600 it's, it's money and it's money that people have and that often people want to give because 00:20:31.600 --> 00:20:35.340 they're, they're at the end of the day right now, if somebody, just like they give stocks 00:20:35.340 --> 00:20:40.800 to the church, they have, if they liquidate it first and then they have capital gains on 00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:45.040 that, they have to then pay the taxes on those capital gains and then give less to the nonprofit. 00:20:45.280 --> 00:20:49.560 But if they give it directly to the nonprofit, the nonprofit gets more value out of it. 00:20:50.240 --> 00:20:56.020 And so people want to donate their crypto to nonprofits, uh, because they've made, some 00:20:56.020 --> 00:21:01.320 of them have made a lot of value, um, growth on, on that digital currency. 00:21:01.940 --> 00:21:08.360 And so I think every church in America should be, or in the world, I guess, uh, should be ready 00:21:08.360 --> 00:21:11.180 to accept cryptocurrency as a donation form. 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:15.620 One of the things that's interesting guys that, that, uh, so I work with in given is one 00:21:15.620 --> 00:21:17.300 of those platforms that accepts it. 00:21:17.320 --> 00:21:23.580 And I'm a big fan of, uh, so my little plug there, uh, but it, it is, uh, it's a free platform 00:21:23.580 --> 00:21:25.520 by the way, uh, for anybody to use. 00:21:25.520 --> 00:21:28.460 And they just take a 4% exchange, you know, transaction fee. 00:21:29.100 --> 00:21:37.080 Uh, but it is a, uh, uh, the average donation in Bitcoin right now is $7,000, $7,000, a church, 00:21:37.080 --> 00:21:42.040 uh, that signed up a couple of weeks ago, uh, that I was talking to, uh, they, within their 00:21:42.040 --> 00:21:44.600 first week, they signed up, they just kind of put it in an email. 00:21:44.600 --> 00:21:47.460 Uh, by the way, we, we now accept cryptocurrency. 00:21:47.460 --> 00:21:52.340 If anybody is interested in donating a cryptocurrency had a hundred thousand dollar gift immediately. 00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:57.200 Uh, that person probably would not have donated had they not have even let them know and 00:21:57.200 --> 00:21:59.360 made that available, uh, to their church. 00:21:59.480 --> 00:22:03.520 And so I think where you start is you, you just get ready to accept it. 00:22:03.520 --> 00:22:06.280 Just like you should be ready to accept credit cards. 00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:11.900 I think we still at Hillsong, we encourage people to donate through direct deposit, not 00:22:11.900 --> 00:22:15.440 credit cards, because we don't want to pay a transaction fee, but if they prefer to, we're 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:20.120 going to be ready to receive that because that's the availability we want to make available 00:22:20.120 --> 00:22:22.680 to how people are doing transactions. 00:22:22.980 --> 00:22:26.040 And I think crypto is something that people are beginning to do more and more of. 00:22:26.500 --> 00:22:28.920 So at the least, I think we're ready to receive it. 00:22:29.060 --> 00:22:34.380 The thing that I don't think churches need to do is they don't need to be holding cryptocurrency. 00:22:35.100 --> 00:22:39.500 Uh, cryptocurrency is, is very, uh, it's a, it's a gamble in many ways. 00:22:39.660 --> 00:22:44.760 And, and I think people donate to your church, not so that you can gamble with their money. 00:22:44.840 --> 00:22:47.300 They donate to your church that you can use it for ministry. 00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:54.360 And so I think because Jeff, to your point earlier, people don't, uh, you can't use Bitcoin to buy 00:22:54.360 --> 00:22:54.960 a lot of things. 00:22:55.100 --> 00:22:59.840 So when somebody gives you Bitcoin, turn that into USD, turn that into Canadian dollar, turn 00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:04.720 that into whatever your, your local currency is and use that for ministry. 00:23:05.140 --> 00:23:08.120 Um, and so you don't want to sit on crypto at this point. 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:14.820 What I do see happening down the road is that, uh, is that I think crypto exchange globally, 00:23:14.820 --> 00:23:20.920 as you think about sending missions dollars overseas, crypto is going to eliminate, uh, Western 00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:28.480 union and some of these global exchanges, because now we can digitally send funds overseas instantaneously 00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:31.420 without, or with minimal transaction fees. 00:23:32.020 --> 00:23:36.680 And so as we digitize currency, it's, it's really this global economy that's being developed. 00:23:36.820 --> 00:23:42.020 The digital currency just funds, just like the internet connected us to the global information 00:23:42.020 --> 00:23:42.400 highway. 00:23:43.040 --> 00:23:47.780 Um, blockchain is going to connect us to this kind of global financial highway. 00:23:47.780 --> 00:23:52.260 And so it's, um, anyways, that's, there's lots of paths, but I think very simply churches 00:23:52.260 --> 00:23:56.760 just need to be ready to receive it, convert it and use it for ministry purposes. 00:23:56.760 --> 00:23:58.680 And it's that simple at this point. 00:23:59.140 --> 00:23:59.500 So good. 00:23:59.620 --> 00:24:00.800 And I loved it. 00:24:01.040 --> 00:24:03.380 You just unpacked so much for us there, Nils. 00:24:03.460 --> 00:24:05.120 I kind of want to take it piece by piece. 00:24:05.200 --> 00:24:07.820 First of all, in given I'm a big fan. 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:12.420 Why should churches not be afraid of in given considering their 4% charge? 00:24:12.640 --> 00:24:13.240 You know what I'm saying? 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:17.100 As opposed to, oh man, what if we wanted to open up our own Bitcoin wallet or something 00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.860 along those lines? 00:24:18.340 --> 00:24:21.840 Because some churches, once they see that charging fee, you're absolutely right. 00:24:21.900 --> 00:24:22.980 But I completely agree with you. 00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:26.740 It's, you have to take it in like an asset and transition it to you. 00:24:26.740 --> 00:24:27.740 As soon as possible. 00:24:27.900 --> 00:24:29.340 And in given does that for churches. 00:24:29.660 --> 00:24:33.960 So, uh, not to plug it too much, but talk through that as far as why churches need to 00:24:33.960 --> 00:24:34.780 look at it through this way. 00:24:35.060 --> 00:24:35.420 Yeah. 00:24:35.480 --> 00:24:39.440 So, you know, actually the way the, the given platform works to, to get into the weeds of 00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:41.800 it is, is they actually, it's a free platform. 00:24:41.800 --> 00:24:46.440 And so they help you set up a digital wallet to receive the cryptocurrency where they take 00:24:46.440 --> 00:24:51.340 their, their fee is in the exchange from the cryptocurrency to USD. 00:24:51.580 --> 00:24:54.420 So you could actually keep it in that digital wallet and not be charged. 00:24:54.580 --> 00:24:59.180 And you could use it, uh, and send it and, and, you know, keep it in Bitcoin or keep it 00:24:59.180 --> 00:25:02.440 in Ethereum or whatever cryptocurrency that somebody donated in. 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:08.100 Um, and so it's in the exchange rate that, um, that, that transact, that the transaction 00:25:08.100 --> 00:25:08.860 fees are taken. 00:25:09.200 --> 00:25:10.440 Uh, and that's a reality. 00:25:10.540 --> 00:25:14.560 Anytime you do any kind of, you know, digital exchange, you're going to have an exchange rate. 00:25:15.100 --> 00:25:19.320 Um, I think time will tell of what, how you functionally do it. 00:25:19.320 --> 00:25:25.280 I think in givens model will probably change over time as, um, cryptocurrency, you know, 00:25:25.300 --> 00:25:26.840 uh, develops and changes. 00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:31.260 And, and the truth is, is people don't need to exchange it into USD and they can keep it 00:25:31.260 --> 00:25:35.060 in that digital currency form for use more significantly. 00:25:35.340 --> 00:25:40.180 And so the, the value of in given, uh, at this point, from my perspective is the ease 00:25:40.180 --> 00:25:45.340 of use is I don't think a pastor needs to go down the road that I, I mean, I spent hours 00:25:45.340 --> 00:25:48.920 and hours a week learning more and more about blockchain technology. 00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:54.760 And, you know, all of these things so that a pastor doesn't have to spend all their time 00:25:54.760 --> 00:25:54.980 learning. 00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:57.120 A pastor doesn't need to know the ins and outs of bitcoins. 00:25:57.300 --> 00:26:00.720 I think they need to understand foundationally how it works, just like they don't need to 00:26:00.720 --> 00:26:04.480 understand how the internet fully works, but they need to know how they can best use it. 00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:08.500 And so I think that, that in given makes it easy for a church. 00:26:08.580 --> 00:26:13.660 It literally takes about 15 minutes from what I've heard to create, sign up your form, you 00:26:13.660 --> 00:26:17.820 know, fill out your information, put in your tax ID number, and then they, they basically 00:26:17.820 --> 00:26:23.360 set up your form to take cryptocurrency and then they give you a little donation back in 00:26:23.360 --> 00:26:27.680 portal, just like you would have for push pay or PayPal or any other kind of transaction 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:28.060 platform. 00:26:28.060 --> 00:26:29.940 So it's, it's really simple. 00:26:30.120 --> 00:26:35.060 And I think that's, that's what churches, churches want to like overcomplicate things 00:26:35.060 --> 00:26:36.880 and they want to complicate things sometimes. 00:26:36.880 --> 00:26:38.460 And they want to fully understand some things. 00:26:38.580 --> 00:26:45.540 And I think there's wisdom and understanding, but I think there's also wasted time in, in 00:26:45.540 --> 00:26:47.480 getting into the weeds of everything. 00:26:47.740 --> 00:26:53.420 And so I think this is one of those situations where it's not necessary to know all the ins 00:26:53.420 --> 00:26:55.560 and outs of cryptocurrency and blockchain. 00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:01.660 But man, if somebody wants to donate a hundred thousand dollars to your church, please don't 00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:06.280 let the complete, the, the confusion limit somebody's generosity. 00:27:06.280 --> 00:27:10.040 Because the reality is what they're going to end up doing otherwise is they have to liquidate 00:27:10.040 --> 00:27:10.160 it. 00:27:10.160 --> 00:27:15.040 They got to pay 50% taxes and then they're going to give you half the amount in, in USD 00:27:15.040 --> 00:27:18.540 or whatever the fiat currency that they have exchanged it to. 00:27:19.320 --> 00:27:24.120 And then your ministry, you know, is getting half the gift to use for ministry impact. 00:27:24.820 --> 00:27:29.720 So this is not taxed that the, the, the donate, like unpack that. 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:30.040 Yeah. 00:27:30.080 --> 00:27:33.640 So it's, it's like stocks, you know, so, so there's a reason why people don't want to get 00:27:33.640 --> 00:27:40.340 donate stocks to a church, uh, rather than, uh, donating, um, you know, whatever, you 00:27:40.340 --> 00:27:44.600 know, rather than selling the stock and get in the cash value. 00:27:44.600 --> 00:27:49.820 So they can still get basically the, in some ways the, the tax write-off, uh, but they, 00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:50.760 uh, yeah. 00:27:50.780 --> 00:27:55.160 So if you, if you liquidate, you know, if you sell stocks, you've got to pay capital gains 00:27:55.160 --> 00:27:55.980 taxes on that. 00:27:56.180 --> 00:28:00.380 Well, Bitcoin, a lot of people that bought it earlier sitting a lot of Bitcoin, the second 00:28:00.380 --> 00:28:05.360 they liquidate that and turn that into USD, they're paying capital gains taxes on all of 00:28:05.360 --> 00:28:11.780 that profit from the exchange rate, uh, you know, profit on their, on their Bitcoin from 00:28:11.780 --> 00:28:12.520 when they bought it. 00:28:12.520 --> 00:28:18.020 But if they donate it to the church, the church being a tax exempt organization is not paying 00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:19.580 taxes when they liquidate it. 00:28:19.740 --> 00:28:27.480 And so the church then, or the, you know, whatever ministry it is, is getting the full, uh, value 00:28:27.480 --> 00:28:32.620 of that currency rather than having to pay those, the capital gains taxes. 00:28:32.740 --> 00:28:33.780 Does that make sense? 00:28:34.320 --> 00:28:34.500 Totally. 00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:39.960 Now, it gets, you get into a lot of weeds of taxes that I don't fully understand, but, 00:28:40.080 --> 00:28:42.220 but that's the basics of, of how. 00:28:42.280 --> 00:28:42.380 Yeah. 00:28:42.520 --> 00:28:49.460 Please, uh, listening audience consult your CPA or your C, uh, F O or whoever handles your 00:28:49.460 --> 00:28:49.900 finances. 00:28:50.140 --> 00:28:53.820 Uh, we are recreational, uh, financial people here. 00:28:54.200 --> 00:29:02.160 Uh, so the volatile nature, I mean, so I, I'm not, I bought Dodge doggy, doge, doge, doge. 00:29:02.160 --> 00:29:08.600 I bought doge, uh, on, on a, on a Monday or a Tuesday, 48 hours later, I've lost 10%. 00:29:08.600 --> 00:29:11.860 Uh, and so I, I bought it the wrong time and it's going the wrong way. 00:29:12.340 --> 00:29:13.740 Uh, you know, a little bit of gambling. 00:29:13.860 --> 00:29:15.800 We may get into that here in a little bit. 00:29:16.100 --> 00:29:18.740 Does this volatile nature, is this going to slow down? 00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:24.420 Like, cause, cause you're right for, so why is it so volatile now and what needs to happen 00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:25.240 for it to slow down? 00:29:25.500 --> 00:29:28.260 You know, I, I think that, um, yeah. 00:29:28.260 --> 00:29:34.060 And if you think about like early days of the internet of you, you kind of have this like 00:29:34.060 --> 00:29:38.580 dot-com boom where everything took off and then, and then it kind of, 00:29:38.600 --> 00:29:40.820 just crashed. 00:29:40.820 --> 00:29:44.800 And then people thought this is the end of the internet and, and then, you know, it 00:29:44.800 --> 00:29:46.720 just, and then it kind of then picked back up. 00:29:47.320 --> 00:29:50.000 And so you have what's happening right now. 00:29:50.620 --> 00:29:54.640 And you kind of had this happen a couple of years ago when Bitcoin really caught a huge 00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:58.900 wave and it exploded and then it seemingly crashed. 00:29:59.180 --> 00:30:01.160 And so people like, Oh, Bitcoin's dead. 00:30:01.320 --> 00:30:06.520 Well, then it's kind of slowly kept growing and growing and growing and maturing and maturing. 00:30:06.800 --> 00:30:11.020 And so we've now seen this second, well, it's really kind of a third wave, but it's the 00:30:11.020 --> 00:30:13.840 second big public wave of what's happening with cryptocurrency. 00:30:14.820 --> 00:30:21.520 And so many more, I think what's really happening is so many more, uh, traditional trusted entities 00:30:21.520 --> 00:30:22.720 are getting into cryptocurrency. 00:30:23.020 --> 00:30:27.320 So as you see now Chase, you know, JP Morgan Chase getting into crypto a little bit, you 00:30:27.320 --> 00:30:32.720 see, you know, Tesla holding, you know, a billion dollars in, in, uh, Bitcoin. 00:30:32.960 --> 00:30:39.160 Uh, you, you, you see, you know, entities that are trusted now leaning into and basically giving 00:30:39.160 --> 00:30:46.260 credibility to cryptocurrency, uh, which is now created an, the next wave, you know, the prediction 00:30:46.260 --> 00:30:50.680 is that September 28th is what a lot of, you know, people are estimating of when we're 00:30:50.680 --> 00:30:52.600 going to see the next crash based on trends. 00:30:52.840 --> 00:30:53.520 Who knows? 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:59.360 Uh, I think what's when, when it comes to just economics and, and volatility, it's hard to 00:30:59.360 --> 00:30:59.820 understand. 00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:04.540 Uh, but, but at the end of the day, it's time, you know, I think, I think time is what 00:31:04.540 --> 00:31:09.500 will create, uh, clarity as to what will happen, you know, a couple of years ago, anybody could 00:31:09.500 --> 00:31:14.480 just create their own money and the SEC had no idea how to regulate it. 00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.860 The, you know, I think the SEC is still trying to figure out how to regulate all of this, you 00:31:18.860 --> 00:31:24.680 know, all of it is still, uh, and I think part of the problem is the technology has moved 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:26.040 faster than the government. 00:31:26.040 --> 00:31:32.600 And we're seeing this in the internet with security, you know, and data privacy that, 00:31:32.660 --> 00:31:36.460 that, that social media moved faster than the government regulations did. 00:31:36.580 --> 00:31:41.360 And these, these social network, social media companies were unregulated essentially for 00:31:41.360 --> 00:31:42.020 so many years. 00:31:42.020 --> 00:31:46.460 Well, now the power, you know, they're, they're almost more powerful than the government. 00:31:46.460 --> 00:31:50.700 And so how can the government now they'll just go somewhere else, uh, to, to hold their 00:31:50.700 --> 00:31:50.980 data. 00:31:51.620 --> 00:31:55.200 And I think we're seeing this and that's a whole different conversation we could, we could 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:59.980 have around data security, but, but you're seeing similar around the financial industry 00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:05.360 and sector is this technology that was kind of blown off as a joke has now caught, moved 00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:09.820 so quickly, uh, that, that I think that regulation is, is unclear. 00:32:09.820 --> 00:32:15.360 And I, and I think until I think govern governance is needed, governance is needed on the internet 00:32:15.360 --> 00:32:18.620 governance is needed in, in financial, you know, entities. 00:32:18.620 --> 00:32:21.860 And, and that's, and that's, what's not real defined at this point. 00:32:22.400 --> 00:32:26.660 And so that's, what's becoming that that's what I think is beginning to develop. 00:32:26.660 --> 00:32:33.980 And I think once we have defined here, kind of the, the, the rules of blockchain and cryptocurrency 00:32:33.980 --> 00:32:40.100 and how this actually, uh, will work, um, rather than it being self-regulated, I think that 00:32:40.100 --> 00:32:45.580 clarity will add the, the stability that, that you're, you know, I think most people are really 00:32:45.580 --> 00:32:48.820 looking for, uh, but it's, it's still wild, wild west. 00:32:48.820 --> 00:32:52.440 And it's still a lot of people like, man, I wish I would have gotten in then we're still 00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:56.080 very early days, you know, and this is just like when people were like, Oh, I wish I would 00:32:56.080 --> 00:32:58.680 have gotten into social media when, when my space first started. 00:32:58.680 --> 00:33:03.300 But now since I've already got my top eight decided, I'm already too late into, I can't 00:33:03.300 --> 00:33:04.560 ever get anybody's top eight. 00:33:05.220 --> 00:33:07.540 Um, and so I might as well not even worry about social media. 00:33:07.540 --> 00:33:09.340 Well, Facebook hadn't even been created yet. 00:33:09.540 --> 00:33:11.460 You know, like those are early days of social media. 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:13.500 This is early days of cryptocurrency. 00:33:14.460 --> 00:33:18.460 Um, and it's, you know, I think it feels like the wild, wild west cause it is. 00:33:18.940 --> 00:33:23.200 Um, and, uh, but, but I think it's, you know, this is where it's going and we'll just have 00:33:23.200 --> 00:33:23.960 to see what happens. 00:33:24.080 --> 00:33:24.200 Yeah. 00:33:24.260 --> 00:33:28.120 And being that it's the early days, that's where a lot of this is fascinating because that 00:33:28.120 --> 00:33:32.660 means that we might not have even arrived at what's going to be the name brand cryptocurrency. 00:33:33.040 --> 00:33:33.160 Correct? 00:33:33.660 --> 00:33:33.840 Yeah. 00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:39.580 I mean, you, you see the, the, one of the technologists that I really love to follow, um, uh, blanking 00:33:39.580 --> 00:33:44.000 on his name, but he's, he's one of the, you know, early Facebook employees and, uh, but 00:33:44.000 --> 00:33:48.140 he's, you know, he's the owner of the Golden State Warriors, but he talks about how he's 00:33:48.140 --> 00:33:49.320 a better on the winner. 00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:51.820 So he bet on Amazon, he bet on Uber. 00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:56.240 He, you know, he's kind of like, there's always a winner, uh, in, in the space, he bet 00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:59.080 on Facebook and the social, social, you know, media world. 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:03.920 And, and he, he's a better that Bitcoin is going to run away with this. 00:34:04.160 --> 00:34:07.380 Well, the reality is, is, is that's his guess. 00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:11.760 You know, I think there's a, there's a, there's a lot of people that think Ethereum, uh, which 00:34:11.760 --> 00:34:14.740 has a lot more utility and function is going to run away with it. 00:34:14.920 --> 00:34:18.260 A lot of people say Bitcoin is like gold and Ethereum is like silver. 00:34:19.260 --> 00:34:20.460 It's people's opinions. 00:34:20.580 --> 00:34:21.940 It's, it's people's guesses. 00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:27.020 You know, I think when you think about money, the U S dollar is only a few hundred years old. 00:34:27.400 --> 00:34:31.800 Money is thousands of years old, you know, of when, since we've been using currencies, 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:37.080 money changes and, and, and the, and the way, the way economies work change. 00:34:37.260 --> 00:34:46.140 And so it's, um, it's so undefined and unclear, but I will say that Bitcoin, um, continues to 00:34:46.140 --> 00:34:52.260 have the most development built around it and, uh, name recognition that it is hard to imagine 00:34:52.260 --> 00:34:58.480 into the day today that Bitcoin will be overturned as the most predominant cryptocurrency. 00:34:59.120 --> 00:35:03.800 But you know what things, you know, it would, it was, it would have been hard to predict that 00:35:03.800 --> 00:35:08.940 my space wasn't going to own social media for the eternity of social social, you know, 00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:10.040 the realm of social media. 00:35:10.040 --> 00:35:14.760 And even today, I think we're in a place where Facebook is losing trust and where it looked 00:35:14.760 --> 00:35:17.000 like Facebook might could never be overthrown. 00:35:17.800 --> 00:35:20.720 TikTok comes along and has a billion users overnight, it seems. 00:35:21.320 --> 00:35:27.780 And so we really like these spaces in the day that we live in, things change and can change 00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:33.340 so fast that, that it's, it's, I think it's impossible for anybody to really predict where 00:35:33.340 --> 00:35:33.760 it's going. 00:35:33.920 --> 00:35:37.080 And I think it's impossible to say, you should just do this. 00:35:37.500 --> 00:35:39.620 Uh, this is the right way to approach cryptocurrency. 00:35:39.980 --> 00:35:41.540 It's all opinions at this point. 00:35:42.020 --> 00:35:46.340 Uh, but, but I think, I mean, I think where, where I continue to lean is, uh, and where I 00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:52.460 see it developing is blockchain technology is not an opinion of whether this is an emerging 00:35:52.460 --> 00:35:56.000 technology that's going to be foundational for the future of finances. 00:35:56.140 --> 00:35:59.840 Now, I think blockchain, as people are learning, can be used for a lot of other functions as 00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:00.120 well. 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:05.260 And so, yeah, I mean, I think, I think though, we, we have to wait and see what happens. 00:36:05.540 --> 00:36:11.740 Um, Jeff, to come back to your, your question around Dodge, Doge, do you know, whatever coin, 00:36:11.920 --> 00:36:13.560 I'm not a believer in Dogecoin. 00:36:13.800 --> 00:36:17.980 Uh, I, I, uh, selling Dogecoin now. 00:36:18.080 --> 00:36:18.420 Okay. 00:36:18.520 --> 00:36:21.000 Let me, let me press that sell button a little early. 00:36:21.620 --> 00:36:24.580 I think, I think, I think you could sit on it for a little bit. 00:36:24.580 --> 00:36:30.280 I think, I think because of the brand popularity of it, um, it's going to, it's going to be 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:33.940 a collector's item in many ways is what my prediction for Dogecoin will be. 00:36:34.060 --> 00:36:35.980 I think it's going to go up over a dollar soon. 00:36:36.040 --> 00:36:37.000 That's my personal prediction. 00:36:37.280 --> 00:36:41.780 Uh, I'm sitting on some Doge, uh, but I am not counting on it being the future of money. 00:36:42.100 --> 00:36:43.440 Uh, that, that's for sure. 00:36:43.960 --> 00:36:46.940 Uh, but, but I don't, you know, we, we really don't know. 00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:51.280 Uh, and, and nobody would have predicted that Doge would have had the run that it, that 00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:55.940 it, it has had, and I think, uh, there's, there's a lot of other, you know, things that 00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:57.720 are, you know, coming along. 00:36:57.720 --> 00:37:04.200 And, uh, I, I think what, what's really intriguing to me to see is, is will governments create their 00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:08.800 own cryptocurrencies or will they create structures around existing cryptocurrencies? 00:37:09.500 --> 00:37:13.400 Facebook tried to, tried to create their own cryptocurrency and Libra, which is now branded 00:37:13.400 --> 00:37:17.520 something else, which it really hadn't even taken off or, you know, I don't, I don't even 00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:20.660 know where that, where that sits today, but it was Facebook was going to have their 00:37:20.660 --> 00:37:21.020 own money. 00:37:21.180 --> 00:37:25.920 You know, if you remember that conversation a couple of years ago, um, and, and so there's, 00:37:26.020 --> 00:37:30.040 there's a lot of, and I, I thought that's, that this makes sense to me, you know, like 00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:34.240 this is, these are bringing together a lot of financial institutions, Facebook lost trust 00:37:34.240 --> 00:37:37.240 in, in data privacy and, in kind of their intentions. 00:37:38.100 --> 00:37:44.240 Um, and so, yeah, we, there's a lot we don't know, uh, uh, towards the future, but man, it's, 00:37:44.240 --> 00:37:49.520 I, I think we're in a fun day, uh, that, that we can, um, yeah, see things 00:37:49.520 --> 00:37:55.340 developing, uh, but, but the end result, we really have no idea where this is all going. 00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:55.920 Yeah. 00:37:55.960 --> 00:38:01.040 I would love to take advantage of the time that, that we've got here, but NFTs is like 00:38:01.040 --> 00:38:02.540 a whole other thing. 00:38:02.540 --> 00:38:06.620 And we were, we were, we were kind of talking about it off air where like in talking about 00:38:06.620 --> 00:38:12.100 like collector's items and things like that, the NBA is selling video clips of, of like 00:38:12.100 --> 00:38:18.200 basketball shots and you can invest money into owning exclusively owning a clip. 00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:21.140 Like some of this stuff and we, I don't, I don't get it. 00:38:21.160 --> 00:38:21.680 I don't understand. 00:38:21.680 --> 00:38:26.620 So talk to us a little bit about NFTs and, and I got to imagine there's a way that the 00:38:26.620 --> 00:38:28.800 church can connect even with, with stuff like this. 00:38:28.800 --> 00:38:30.560 So talk, what's an NFT? 00:38:31.060 --> 00:38:31.180 Yeah. 00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:34.260 So, so NFTs stands for non-fungible tokens. 00:38:34.380 --> 00:38:39.440 Uh, I, I'm gonna let you just YouTube non-fungible tokens to, to understand definition of non-fungible 00:38:39.440 --> 00:38:39.880 tokens. 00:38:39.880 --> 00:38:46.000 But, but at the core it's, it's a, um, it's basically a tracking number. 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.760 You know, if you, if you were to think about like everything you get has a, has a unique 00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:54.580 tracking number and the blockchain is the technology that, that keeps a transaction. 00:38:54.580 --> 00:39:01.300 And what you, what you hear, uh, associated to non-fungible tokens is, is it's, it's a smart 00:39:01.300 --> 00:39:01.840 contract. 00:39:01.980 --> 00:39:09.300 And so it uses the blockchain to, to basically keep track or ledger of every time that an item, 00:39:09.300 --> 00:39:13.240 a digital item is transacted of who owns it. 00:39:13.320 --> 00:39:16.640 So it could be that I own it and it, my name is on that ledger. 00:39:16.640 --> 00:39:20.180 And then I traded to you, Jeff, and then that's in the ledger. 00:39:20.180 --> 00:39:23.200 And then Jeff, you traded to Ray, and then he owns it in the ledger. 00:39:23.200 --> 00:39:25.600 And then he trades it back to me or sells it back to me. 00:39:25.600 --> 00:39:26.580 And that's in the ledger. 00:39:26.580 --> 00:39:30.520 And so that proof of ownership is in state on the blockchain. 00:39:30.900 --> 00:39:32.440 Well, the same thing's happening with cryptocurrency. 00:39:33.060 --> 00:39:35.000 Every Bitcoin kind of has a ledger. 00:39:35.160 --> 00:39:37.460 It's exchanged from this person to this person. 00:39:37.560 --> 00:39:41.200 And everyone is tracked on the blockchain and it's staked. 00:39:41.500 --> 00:39:42.760 And so you're trading it. 00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:44.520 Uh, what's actually happening in cryptocurrency. 00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:51.300 It's actually broken down to fractions of Bitcoins are, are then traded and stored on the blockchain 00:39:51.300 --> 00:39:53.020 from a ledger standpoint. 00:39:53.300 --> 00:39:59.900 And so that NBA is doing basically basketball cards, where if you think about when I grew 00:39:59.900 --> 00:40:05.040 up, you know, I would get a, a Michael Jordan basketball card and they would say one of 20,000. 00:40:05.460 --> 00:40:08.180 You would, we had no idea where there's 20,000 cards went. 00:40:08.320 --> 00:40:09.700 We just knew there were 20,000 made. 00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:13.140 We had no idea if somebody else, you know, just like they print fake money. 00:40:13.240 --> 00:40:15.980 Sometimes there's somebody printed fake basketball cards. 00:40:16.100 --> 00:40:21.080 Well, with the blockchain, we can actually know who, who exactly owned it, when they owned 00:40:21.080 --> 00:40:22.900 it, when they sold it, how much they sold it for. 00:40:23.160 --> 00:40:27.040 And so this, these smart contracts allow for that trackability. 00:40:27.680 --> 00:40:30.540 And, um, and, and then there's value associated to that. 00:40:30.580 --> 00:40:33.060 The other, you know, one of the things that's been popular is art. 00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:39.400 And so Beeple is this popular artist who, who's basically selling JPEGs and one of them sold 00:40:39.400 --> 00:40:43.180 for $69 million and people think, why it's a JPEG. 00:40:43.260 --> 00:40:45.420 I can just look at it on my computer screen. 00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:46.660 Why is it worth $69 million? 00:40:47.020 --> 00:40:51.460 Well, because he proof of ownership and now he could sell it for, you know, now they're 00:40:51.460 --> 00:40:54.220 estimating that's worth over a hundred million dollars today. 00:40:54.220 --> 00:40:59.520 Uh, that, that proof of ownership, because it's one of one and only in, in, in that proof 00:40:59.520 --> 00:41:04.380 of ownership is, is really valuable in, in the, in the world of collectors. 00:41:04.380 --> 00:41:10.540 And so I own some, some baseball signatures that I have a certificate of authenticity and 00:41:10.540 --> 00:41:15.320 that certificate makes that signature worth a lot more because it's proof that it wasn't 00:41:15.320 --> 00:41:15.740 faked. 00:41:15.740 --> 00:41:23.420 Um, well, the blockchain is actually much more provable, uh, from, from just a long-term, 00:41:23.420 --> 00:41:27.260 you know, authenticity, uh, you know, establishing that authenticity. 00:41:27.620 --> 00:41:30.160 I think collectibles are where we're seeing this begin. 00:41:30.160 --> 00:41:36.020 Just like we saw cryptocurrency and finances on the blockchain, uh, being an initial, you 00:41:36.020 --> 00:41:41.640 know, function of NFTs, non-fungible tokens, where the, the token is that representation of 00:41:41.640 --> 00:41:42.740 what's being exchanged. 00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:49.120 And, uh, but, but we're seeing things like tickets, you know, anytime you go to a baseball 00:41:49.120 --> 00:41:52.500 game, you know, I just went to Yankees game in the future, that will be a non-fungible 00:41:52.500 --> 00:41:56.840 token where I buy that token for that ticket on that game for that day in that seat. 00:41:57.100 --> 00:42:01.480 And then I always have that token to represent when I went to that game, or I could sell that 00:42:01.480 --> 00:42:04.040 token to somebody else who could use that to get into that game. 00:42:04.580 --> 00:42:06.640 And that's my ticket, my token. 00:42:06.740 --> 00:42:11.440 Instead of, instead of using, you know, ticket master who then sells it on StubHub and all 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:13.600 these other platforms, you, you do it on the blockchain. 00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:17.760 Um, and so it's, it's, that's where you get into decentralization and that kind of thing. 00:42:17.820 --> 00:42:24.760 So it's, it's a, it's basically like a serial number that's tracked on this ledger of all 00:42:24.760 --> 00:42:29.300 time transactions of what happens and it, and it creates stability of tracking at the end 00:42:29.300 --> 00:42:32.040 of the day, uh, in a decentralized way. 00:42:32.040 --> 00:42:37.500 And so it, some of those like decentralization, you, you, you, that's where it gets a little 00:42:37.500 --> 00:42:41.860 complicated, uh, but, but really just understanding a ledger, you know, I think is the key thing 00:42:41.860 --> 00:42:45.460 of just, we're just monitoring transactions in a very stable and secure way. 00:42:45.460 --> 00:42:49.660 You know, I can think of maybe some opportunities, you know, with church plannings, we, we deal 00:42:49.660 --> 00:42:53.040 a lot with like fundraising, helping people fundraise. 00:42:53.160 --> 00:42:58.880 I could see where maybe this NFT or something like that, because it represents an experience 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:05.540 or it represents, um, something unique where that could be used in a way to like help fundraise 00:43:05.540 --> 00:43:08.280 and help an organization startup or something like that. 00:43:08.580 --> 00:43:09.780 Are there other applications? 00:43:09.780 --> 00:43:15.020 And I may be talking out of cheek here, but, uh, other ways to, to utilize this 00:43:15.020 --> 00:43:17.080 NFTs in the church, have you guys heard of anything? 00:43:17.460 --> 00:43:21.940 You know, I, I've yet to hear of anything, but, but one of the things that I, I, I've 00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:25.720 been dreaming up, uh, here in this NFT world is, is one of the things that's interesting about 00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:30.320 how a lot of people are doing NFTs is they're putting it in and Gary Vaynerchuk is, you know, 00:43:30.320 --> 00:43:36.720 somebody that I follow closely is releasing an NFT where every time it's exchanged, he gets 00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:38.620 10% of every exchange. 00:43:39.200 --> 00:43:44.640 So typically if like the Yankees sold me a ticket, they only get the ticket price the one 00:43:44.640 --> 00:43:46.940 time that I buy it from them. 00:43:46.940 --> 00:43:51.300 And then StubHub gets the money where the reality is if StubHub then sells it to, or 00:43:51.300 --> 00:43:55.600 if I sell it to you, then they're going to get 10% of whatever fee I sold it to you for. 00:43:55.600 --> 00:44:00.700 So they also got the original a hundred dollars, then 10% of the $110 I sold it to you for. 00:44:01.360 --> 00:44:05.660 And so every time it's exchanged, it's, they get a piece of the pie. 00:44:05.660 --> 00:44:12.100 And so you think about something that an artist might create a piece of art, digital art, and they 00:44:12.100 --> 00:44:17.960 want, you know, 10% of all transactions to go to their church every time it's sold. 00:44:17.960 --> 00:44:23.360 And so it's almost like a, an asset that keeps giving to its church forever, you know, for the 00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.000 lifetime of that digital asset for whoever it has value to, uh, in any future exchanges. 00:44:29.160 --> 00:44:33.820 And so I think there's some interesting, um, opportunities there. 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:38.500 I think at this point it's, it's kind of in the weird phase of what, what is this? 00:44:38.560 --> 00:44:39.160 Where's it going? 00:44:39.780 --> 00:44:41.240 Um, what, what happens? 00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:47.460 I, you know, I, I, I definitely, um, have thought about, you know, experiences are integrated 00:44:47.460 --> 00:44:50.540 in, but I think even in the church world, you get into this, are you giving a better seat 00:44:50.540 --> 00:44:51.160 to this person? 00:44:51.160 --> 00:44:55.880 Because it gave more money and it, it definitely gets a, uh, some of it gets a little weird 00:44:55.880 --> 00:44:57.440 in the, in the church space. 00:44:57.440 --> 00:45:02.240 And I think sometimes we, we, I want to try too hard to integrate technology into churches 00:45:02.240 --> 00:45:07.080 and NFTs are one of those things that I do think that, that we need to be paying attention 00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:13.280 to because culturally it's becoming a significant part of, um, of our world. 00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:18.380 But, but I don't know that it, um, it has a, a significant place. 00:45:18.460 --> 00:45:18.700 You know what? 00:45:18.740 --> 00:45:19.560 I actually do have an idea. 00:45:19.840 --> 00:45:21.180 Uh, so here, here's where I have the idea. 00:45:21.200 --> 00:45:22.980 Well, I mean, like, go ahead. 00:45:23.040 --> 00:45:25.720 Cause I, I want to even push back on what you said, but go, you go first. 00:45:25.780 --> 00:45:30.160 Well, one NFT that's out there that that's really interesting to me is, is a place called, 00:45:30.160 --> 00:45:32.980 um, uh, uh, Decentraland. 00:45:33.080 --> 00:45:37.600 Uh, so Decentraland is like second, second, uh, what is it? 00:45:37.640 --> 00:45:38.060 What was it called? 00:45:38.160 --> 00:45:39.860 Second, uh, second life. 00:45:39.920 --> 00:45:40.080 Yeah. 00:45:40.140 --> 00:45:46.940 So it's like this virtual land and you can literally buy land plots of land in Decentraland. 00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:50.100 And, and then they're going for like a hundred thousand dollars. 00:45:50.420 --> 00:45:54.160 Uh, it's a, it's this crazy thing, but you can literally go in virtual reality and it's, 00:45:54.340 --> 00:45:55.720 uh, it's this virtual land. 00:45:55.780 --> 00:45:58.040 And people are creating little dirt digital museums. 00:45:58.040 --> 00:46:02.900 That's where the people's art is going to be displayed in Decentraland in a virtual 00:46:02.900 --> 00:46:06.700 museum, um, that that's the only place you can go to see it. 00:46:06.740 --> 00:46:09.500 And you can literally charge tickets to go into this space. 00:46:09.620 --> 00:46:13.040 I think we get into this weird of a living only in digital life. 00:46:13.360 --> 00:46:19.280 Uh, but I think a church could buy, uh, or you could buy and donate to your church, 00:46:19.340 --> 00:46:25.240 a plot of land in Decentraland and make it a gospel experience, like a museum of the 00:46:25.240 --> 00:46:30.960 Bible type of experience in Decentraland where people could go and have virtual experiences 00:46:30.960 --> 00:46:34.640 or virtual church experiences in, uh, Decentraland. 00:46:34.880 --> 00:46:39.500 And so I, I think, you know, I, I think there are some weird things out there, but I think 00:46:39.500 --> 00:46:46.440 there's also, as we, uh, I can't wait to see like what DJ Soto did with VR church. 00:46:46.440 --> 00:46:50.700 And there's some creative people out there that are going to think of some creative ideas, 00:46:50.700 --> 00:46:52.700 uh, to, to use NFT. 00:46:52.980 --> 00:46:57.100 And there's going to be some people that come up with some ridiculous ideas, but we've got 00:46:57.100 --> 00:46:59.940 to try some ridiculous things sometimes to get to some really good ideas. 00:47:00.500 --> 00:47:05.560 And I get excited about, um, those people that are willing to go first, even if they feel 00:47:05.560 --> 00:47:07.000 ridiculous and people make fun of them. 00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:12.340 Uh, I remember when we started online church, you know, it was just like, we were heathens 00:47:12.340 --> 00:47:17.780 and we were, uh, you know, we didn't believe in Jesus anymore because we believed in the 00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.480 church on the internet. 00:47:18.480 --> 00:47:22.940 And, you know, and I think there's, there's going to be people that see it as ridiculous. 00:47:23.280 --> 00:47:28.560 Um, but out of that is going to come genius and it comes some unique and exciting new ministry 00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:29.380 opportunities though. 00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:30.200 I can't wait to see it. 00:47:30.200 --> 00:47:34.660 I, I can't conceptualize it yet though, Jeff, I, I want, I want to get there. 00:47:35.120 --> 00:47:35.880 You know, it was funny. 00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:40.080 DJ Soto, uh, has, has called Doge, uh, his, uh, retirement fund. 00:47:40.220 --> 00:47:42.420 I've had that conversation with him a couple of times. 00:47:42.580 --> 00:47:45.300 I would not, I would not put a retirement fund there. 00:47:45.600 --> 00:47:45.800 Yeah. 00:47:45.820 --> 00:47:46.120 Yeah. 00:47:46.660 --> 00:47:47.740 Maybe it's a startup. 00:47:47.940 --> 00:47:48.420 I don't know. 00:47:48.740 --> 00:47:53.840 Uh, but he's, he's done very well, uh, initially through Doge, uh, Jade, Jade, honestly, 00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:59.520 I'm not sure Jade Earhart, which platforms here, which, um, what's the term, which, uh, 00:48:00.020 --> 00:48:01.880 which coin or coin. 00:48:02.040 --> 00:48:02.340 Thank you. 00:48:02.380 --> 00:48:02.520 Yeah. 00:48:02.640 --> 00:48:03.900 Which coin he's using. 00:48:04.440 --> 00:48:10.780 Um, but he's, I mean, he's, he's funding his, his livelihood off of this. 00:48:10.860 --> 00:48:15.220 We tried to get both these guys on the podcast and just had a number of scheduling conflicts. 00:48:15.360 --> 00:48:16.280 Jade, go ahead. 00:48:16.540 --> 00:48:17.420 Quick crypto story. 00:48:17.660 --> 00:48:23.180 Um, my daughters, um, my, my daughter, so we got a light coin is, is a cryptocurrency. 00:48:23.520 --> 00:48:24.840 We've got a light coin mining machine. 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:29.740 I call it my digital printer and you, you basically, you turn it on and it, it, you know, 00:48:29.840 --> 00:48:34.480 helps create the transactions and runs the blockchain and, uh, and it will give you light 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:35.300 coin in exchange. 00:48:35.300 --> 00:48:41.340 And so we've gotten about, you know, two point, uh, you know, about two light coin out of running 00:48:41.340 --> 00:48:43.520 it, uh, which is equivalent to about $600. 00:48:43.520 --> 00:48:45.860 It costs about $150 for the machine. 00:48:46.520 --> 00:48:51.160 Um, and, uh, and so my daughters, we spent a Saturday setting it all up and connecting 00:48:51.160 --> 00:48:53.120 it and, and getting on the, on the blockchain. 00:48:53.800 --> 00:48:59.260 And we, um, I told him, you know, if you help me set it up, I'll divide the profits with 00:48:59.260 --> 00:48:59.460 you. 00:48:59.620 --> 00:49:03.700 And so I, I set them up a coin base account so I could just send them light coin every 00:49:03.700 --> 00:49:04.680 time we get payouts. 00:49:05.160 --> 00:49:09.460 And now, and, and so my, my, my youngest likes to spend her money. 00:49:09.740 --> 00:49:11.880 Uh, my oldest has been saving it. 00:49:12.060 --> 00:49:18.540 My, my, my daughter, my 11 year old now has over $200 in, in what she's got more than that 00:49:18.540 --> 00:49:23.980 now, uh, but she has doubled, not only has she taken the money she got from light coin, she 00:49:23.980 --> 00:49:26.140 has then doubled it in doing trades paying. 00:49:26.240 --> 00:49:30.600 She's now paying attention to what cryptocurrencies are doing well and making trades. 00:49:30.740 --> 00:49:33.540 And, uh, so she's now in the hundreds of dollars. 00:49:33.540 --> 00:49:36.360 I never, when I was 11, I don't think I even had cash yet. 00:49:36.440 --> 00:49:40.340 You know, I think I had my chain, my piggy bank still, and she's trading cryptocurrency. 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:43.840 She also, she got $20 for her, for her birthday. 00:49:44.100 --> 00:49:47.860 Uh, not too long ago, she came straight to me with that $20 bill from her grandparents 00:49:47.860 --> 00:49:49.680 and said, Hey, can you just send this to me in Bitcoin? 00:49:50.420 --> 00:49:54.940 Um, and, uh, I'm, I'm pretty like exchange, uh, exchange person. 00:49:55.460 --> 00:49:56.500 She's now seeing though. 00:49:56.560 --> 00:50:00.020 She's like, I can let my money make more money, you know, being over here. 00:50:00.260 --> 00:50:05.120 But I'm telling you, if my eight year old and my 11 year old can figure out cryptocurrency, 00:50:05.640 --> 00:50:11.460 uh, using Coinbase and setting up a, a mining machine, uh, and they did it watching YouTube. 00:50:11.580 --> 00:50:14.940 I, I, I literally made them, you know, figure it out if I was going to share the profits 00:50:14.940 --> 00:50:17.760 with them and, uh, then you can figure this out. 00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:19.840 And it, and it, it's not that complicated. 00:50:19.980 --> 00:50:24.120 So, uh, don't let an eight year old, uh, beat you in this, in this crypto game. 00:50:24.600 --> 00:50:27.000 Don't let an eight year old beat you in this crypto game. 00:50:27.060 --> 00:50:31.140 We're going to end on that note here, the church digital podcast. 00:50:31.260 --> 00:50:33.860 I can't think of a better note to end on. 00:50:33.940 --> 00:50:37.780 Hey, we're going to put some links in the show notes, uh, to some of these YouTube videos. 00:50:37.780 --> 00:50:40.980 And evidently I, and my family are going to have a weekend project. 00:50:40.980 --> 00:50:45.140 We're going to figure out, I don't even know what a mining machine is, but if I can do $150 00:50:45.140 --> 00:50:47.740 to 600 in a short amount of time. 00:50:47.740 --> 00:50:52.820 Um, and I, and I love the idea of, of giving it to the kids and let them, you know, watch 00:50:52.820 --> 00:50:57.520 all the money, uh, that they invested in the doge disappear, which evidently I have done. 00:50:57.600 --> 00:50:58.420 So awesome. 00:50:58.920 --> 00:51:06.620 Hey, uh, I've got, I've got a friend that's, um, that's in this and, and it's like, Hey, what, 00:51:06.840 --> 00:51:11.580 what's the biggest lesson, uh, that, that you're learning throughout through all this, uh, you 00:51:11.580 --> 00:51:13.240 know, the training and the cryptocurrency. 00:51:13.600 --> 00:51:17.360 And in his first, the one word he replied back with was regret. 00:51:18.040 --> 00:51:21.960 Uh, and so that's, that's not really encouraging. 00:51:22.220 --> 00:51:23.560 It's, you just gotta be on it. 00:51:23.600 --> 00:51:24.680 It's either going up or down. 00:51:24.680 --> 00:51:26.660 So, uh, but it's, it's awesome. 00:51:26.660 --> 00:51:30.600 So, uh, I don't know how to wrap that up with the church, but Garrett Silji, thank 00:51:30.600 --> 00:51:32.160 you for, for the wise words out there. 00:51:32.160 --> 00:51:36.480 The editor, uh, Garrett Silji is the guy's, yeah, crypto is, is full of regret. 00:51:36.680 --> 00:51:37.420 So, all right. 00:51:37.420 --> 00:51:39.480 Hey, uh, but this has been a great time. 00:51:39.560 --> 00:51:40.680 Great, great conversation. 00:51:41.280 --> 00:51:43.080 Definitely something to be looking forward to. 00:51:43.400 --> 00:51:48.160 Um, you know, and it's, once again, it's very easy as we said, to get started into this. 00:51:48.220 --> 00:51:53.140 So we'll put links in the show notes to all of these things, um, as well as some of the 00:51:53.140 --> 00:51:56.620 resources and, and Nils social, uh, will be on there. 00:51:56.620 --> 00:52:00.120 Well, to be able to engage with and, and, you know, tell them all the money that you 00:52:00.120 --> 00:52:02.780 almost made and then, oh crap, I invested in the wrong coin. 00:52:03.180 --> 00:52:05.060 Uh, and, um, and we'll go from there. 00:52:05.460 --> 00:52:06.700 So thank you for this. 00:52:06.760 --> 00:52:07.920 Hey, Nils, we're landing the plane. 00:52:08.040 --> 00:52:08.920 Any closing thoughts? 00:52:09.380 --> 00:52:10.380 No, thanks for having me. 00:52:10.420 --> 00:52:14.320 Thanks for leading this conversation and leading the church forward in this digital age. 00:52:14.600 --> 00:52:18.340 So for, for Nils, for Ray, this is Jeff at the church, digital and stated church planning. 00:52:18.460 --> 00:52:20.160 Thanks for, uh, jumping on the pod. 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:21.540 See you next time here at the show. 00:52:21.720 --> 00:52:22.200 Y'all have a good day.