WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.040 All right. Hey, welcome to the beta show here. It's episode 37. My name is Jeff with the Church 00:00:07.040 --> 00:00:12.860 Digital. Once again, all this, and I love this, all this is powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:18.900 Here at the beta show, we answer your digital ministry questions live on the air. So if you've 00:00:18.900 --> 00:00:22.080 got digital ministry questions, and oh, let me tell you, you've got digital ministry questions, 00:00:22.080 --> 00:00:30.820 go ahead and text those digital ministry questions to 484-324-8724. This is literally 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:35.740 my cell phone. By the way, I keep dropping my cell phone. It's cracked like crazy. Hoping 00:00:35.740 --> 00:00:38.580 that Apple's going to come out with the new iPhones here in a little bit so I can upgrade, 00:00:38.700 --> 00:00:46.360 but it still does take your text messages, 484-324-8724. So go ahead and hit us up at that. 00:00:46.360 --> 00:00:51.200 So here with the beta show, episode 37, it's going to be a long episode. We're going to pack 00:00:51.200 --> 00:00:55.460 it in tight. I'm going to be like that guy at Micromachines back in the 80s, talking really 00:00:55.460 --> 00:01:01.300 fast, creating a digital discipleship pathway. If you're watching live on the air, feel free 00:01:01.300 --> 00:01:05.820 to go ahead and comment in whatever the social media platform that you're on. Go ahead and 00:01:05.820 --> 00:01:10.260 give permissions to StreamYard to do whatever the magic is that they do so we can see it. 00:01:10.480 --> 00:01:14.760 But we definitely would want to engage with you at some point here in the show. If you're 00:01:14.760 --> 00:01:19.120 watching on demand through the podcast or through social media later, we would love for you 00:01:19.120 --> 00:01:24.620 to do this live with us. Every Thursday, noon Eastern, we hit up on some topic. You can check 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:30.080 it out at Facebook.com, The Church Digital, as well as YouTube.com, The Church Digital. Check out 00:01:30.080 --> 00:01:34.940 the broadcast there and go ahead and subscribe or like or whatever it is you do at the platforms 00:01:34.940 --> 00:01:39.860 to engage because we would love to follow up with you even throughout the week. Beta 38 is next week, 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:45.220 Nashville edition. I'm actually going to be hanging out in Nashville with some digital pastors and doing 00:01:45.220 --> 00:01:50.100 some stuff with Exponential. I have no idea what the topic is going to be. So you will see me 00:01:50.100 --> 00:01:55.020 in a hotel probably somewhere in Nashville doing this thing live. Give me a topic. Once again, 00:01:55.100 --> 00:02:03.840 484-324-8724. Stadia is doing an innovation meetup towards multimodal churches, churches that want to 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:12.480 do multiple models of church. It's going to be Tuesday, 817 online, Tuesday, 817 noon to 4 p.m. Eastern. 00:02:13.280 --> 00:02:18.960 Lots of speakers coming in, not only from the church, but also from the marketplace, sharing about why 00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:25.280 multimodal or why multiple strategies are helping organizations be more effective in their goals. 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:30.220 Check out stadiachurchplanning.org slash innovation to sign up and for more information. By the way, 00:02:30.220 --> 00:02:36.140 the breakouts are incredible for this. There's going to be lots of things happening. Stadiachurchplanning.org 00:02:36.140 --> 00:02:44.180 slash innovation for more there. All right. Hey, but let's dig in here. Beta 37, creating a digital 00:02:44.180 --> 00:02:49.020 discipleship pathway. Look, I'm going to be honest. I'm going to give you two answers here to this 00:02:49.020 --> 00:02:53.520 question. What is a digital discipleship pathway? How do you do a digital discipleship pathway? What 00:02:53.520 --> 00:02:58.460 does it need to look like digitally for our church? There's a safe answer, and then there's a radical 00:02:58.460 --> 00:03:02.320 answer. There's the answer that your church probably wants to hear, and then there's the answer that may 00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:06.180 get you fired. No, I'm kidding. Well, yeah, you may get fired, but you're definitely going to challenge 00:03:06.180 --> 00:03:11.640 some things with the second approach. But before we get into the crazy stuff, and it'll get crazy here in 00:03:11.640 --> 00:03:17.020 a little bit, let's talk about it. What is a discipleship pathway? Now, discipleship pathway, 00:03:17.140 --> 00:03:22.320 engagement pathway, like paths, plans, like there's so many different languages and terminologies here, 00:03:22.320 --> 00:03:27.820 and I don't want to get lost in that necessarily, but at least how I would define a pathway, 00:03:27.820 --> 00:03:32.680 a discipleship pathway is the process of taking someone far from God to a place where you're 00:03:32.680 --> 00:03:39.320 bringing them closer to Him. It's that pathway of meeting someone that's new or that's not even a 00:03:39.320 --> 00:03:43.260 Christian that's called to Christ and getting them to the place where they have a better understanding 00:03:43.260 --> 00:03:49.220 of who Jesus is and maybe is even multiplying and telling somebody else about what Jesus means to 00:03:49.220 --> 00:03:55.660 them. So that's that pathway, the process that a Christian develops to get to the place of 00:03:55.660 --> 00:04:00.320 multiplying. Now, your church may have a different definition, and I don't want to get lost in the 00:04:00.320 --> 00:04:04.780 weeds on that. Whatever your definition is, is great, as long as it's effective towards 00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:09.460 multiplication. And typically, the majority of the churches out there look something like 00:04:09.460 --> 00:04:14.780 Rick Warren's Purpose Driven Church, thank you very much, 1990s, where it's that connect to God, 00:04:14.880 --> 00:04:20.760 connect to others, connect to serving, connecting to on mission. Rick Warren had the baseball diamond, 00:04:20.760 --> 00:04:25.800 where it's like first base, second base, third base, home plate, connect to God. The weekend service was 00:04:25.800 --> 00:04:30.760 first base. Let's get everybody to that. And then now let's get them to serving or to others, 00:04:30.880 --> 00:04:37.260 to small groups. Let's get them serving on campus somehow to make the experience better. And then 00:04:37.260 --> 00:04:41.460 let's at home plate, the end game is to get them on mission. And many churches have different 00:04:41.460 --> 00:04:48.800 definitions here, whether that's, you know, serving in the community, witness evangelizing, being 00:04:48.800 --> 00:04:54.040 comfortable sharing their faith, going on global mission trips. The definitions can be different, 00:04:54.180 --> 00:05:00.780 varying per church. But the goal was to make a disciple through getting them all the way around Rick's 00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:06.060 baseball diamond analogy back in, like I said, the 90s. And that's awesome. But there's a problem. 00:05:06.060 --> 00:05:11.560 This doesn't work digitally. Why does this not work digitally? Well, let's, let's just address this 00:05:11.560 --> 00:05:15.680 up front. It's too hard to discover who these people are that are watching our church online 00:05:15.680 --> 00:05:20.040 services. You've, you've heard me tell the story. You probably have a similar story. I have a friend 00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:25.880 of mine here in South Florida, digital pastor who has told me that he had over half a million viewers, 00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:33.300 500,000 viewers for his Easter 2020 Easter service, half a million people. Now there may be 00:05:33.300 --> 00:05:36.820 multipliers involved and, and I don't know what the formula is. And at the end of the day, it doesn't 00:05:36.820 --> 00:05:42.260 matter. What you need to know is there's a whole bunch of people who logged on to watch a video 00:05:42.260 --> 00:05:48.740 stream of a church service in Easter 2020. But when I asked my digital pastor friend, hey, 00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:54.740 how many connection cards did you get to follow up on? His answer was 11. So he had half a million 00:05:54.740 --> 00:06:02.180 viewers, only 11 people actually filled out the card to engage in dialogue, to start in some form of a 00:06:02.180 --> 00:06:08.480 discipleship pathway or plan. You see, it's very hard to pull people out of church in isolation. And we 00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:12.880 need to understand that up front. We're going to address maybe some solutions to that, but it's hard 00:06:12.880 --> 00:06:19.460 to meet people in digital space compared to meeting people physically. By the way, another reason why a 00:06:19.460 --> 00:06:23.620 digital engagement pathway, some of the struggles that we're looking at is this idea of serving on 00:06:23.620 --> 00:06:31.080 campus. Digital doesn't require near the serving footprint that a physical campus does. Just think of the 00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:36.660 number of people that are necessary to execute that physical worship service from the worship band to 00:06:37.380 --> 00:06:43.000 to the speakers, to the guest services, even the people that are cleaning the facility and getting 00:06:43.000 --> 00:06:49.600 it ready. The physical footprint volunteer and the staffing is huge. Digital doesn't have that 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:55.140 burden. So what do you do with those people that are wanting to serve or what does serving even look 00:06:55.140 --> 00:07:00.940 like in digital space? This is a question and a concern. Number three here, getting people on 00:07:00.940 --> 00:07:06.860 mission. Well, you know, how do you live digitally in community? Questions come up. How can I serve 00:07:06.860 --> 00:07:12.260 locally if people are distributed across the country? Okay, I'm trying to get people to serve locally for my 00:07:12.260 --> 00:07:18.940 church here in Miami, but I've got this guy that lives in Orlando or Tampa or Austin or California or Timbuktu. 00:07:19.140 --> 00:07:25.780 Wherever they are, challenges start to come up where I'm trying to get people to serve locally within 00:07:25.780 --> 00:07:31.500 their communities, but I only know my physical community here in Miami. What do I do with people 00:07:31.500 --> 00:07:35.900 that are outside of the physical community of where my church is? I just happen to live with Miami. 00:07:36.260 --> 00:07:42.160 So you can see here that Rick Warren's purpose-driven church model, yes, it works physically. And whatever 00:07:42.160 --> 00:07:48.040 engagement pathway your church has, I'm just using Rick's as an example here, there are challenges 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:55.260 because a lot of the assumptions of the physical engagement pathway indicate that we're serving, 00:07:55.440 --> 00:08:01.060 we're connecting, we're doing ministry physically within the space. But digitally, there's some 00:08:01.060 --> 00:08:06.620 challenges because digital is different. All right, so that was all set up for the safe answer. 00:08:07.200 --> 00:08:13.500 Safe answer. We need to shore up this basic process and make it digitally friendly. Remember, 00:08:13.500 --> 00:08:20.780 this has to be about relationships. Digital church has to be about relationships for it to be effective. 00:08:20.780 --> 00:08:27.780 Improvement number one, start thinking above the funnel. Now, this analogy starts to get screwy because I've been 00:08:27.780 --> 00:08:33.520 talking about Rick Warren's purpose-driven baseball diamond and now I changed it to a funnel. So pretend there's a funnel 00:08:33.520 --> 00:08:41.520 here and the top level is that weekend service. In the physical church, the first place that we start to track people 00:08:41.520 --> 00:08:48.020 physically is that weekend service. And I would suggest to you that if we really want to be effective digitally, 00:08:48.520 --> 00:08:53.940 utilizing this same model, we need to start tracking people not at the weekend service, 00:08:54.660 --> 00:09:02.840 above the weekend service. We need to start doing things like landing pages, like social media, engaging with people, 00:09:03.040 --> 00:09:10.320 dialoguing with people, building relationships before they come to the building, utilizing YouTube to gather information on people. 00:09:10.520 --> 00:09:18.380 Through all of this, please note that CTAs, call to actions, are your friend. We need to start collecting information. 00:09:18.380 --> 00:09:24.720 We need to start engaging and dialoguing with people before they make it to the service digitally. 00:09:24.720 --> 00:09:28.840 I would also suggest this would also help in a physical space, but we need to start thinking 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:34.740 and doing ministry above the funnel, above that weekend service and meeting people there. 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:40.980 By the way, another suggestion here, jump in Facebook groups that are hyper-local to where your church community is 00:09:40.980 --> 00:09:45.520 or groups that are hyper-focused on what your church's target audience is. 00:09:45.940 --> 00:09:50.760 Build relationships through digital communities that represent the physical communities 00:09:50.760 --> 00:09:54.960 or the physical, the type of people that your church is aimed at. 00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:00.960 And once again, build this database of knowledge and build these relationships that then can funnel, 00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:04.960 that can connect people to that physical church service. 00:10:05.440 --> 00:10:07.580 Perfect your content. Now this gets weird. 00:10:07.860 --> 00:10:14.480 Perfect your content to the point of getting names, of converting as many as possible, 00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:18.360 to build relationships with people as much as possible. 00:10:18.460 --> 00:10:22.660 The content is only as good as it is connecting you with people. 00:10:22.660 --> 00:10:27.180 And so what content do you need to create to make it more engaging 00:10:27.180 --> 00:10:32.000 that allows you to start to build relationships with people? 00:10:32.460 --> 00:10:35.780 And so if we're really wanting to create that disciple digitally, 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:40.340 one of the first challenges that we're going to face is how do we meet these people? 00:10:40.900 --> 00:10:43.400 And all effort needs to go in right here. 00:10:43.480 --> 00:10:48.620 All this stuff I'm talking about is above the funnel before it even gets to the church service. 00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:54.840 So the goal is meeting and dialoguing with people before it even gets to the church service. 00:10:54.940 --> 00:10:58.820 Number four here, use all of this information, remember, like I said, 00:10:59.220 --> 00:11:03.860 to build relationships with people before the church service happens. 00:11:04.300 --> 00:11:06.640 Now remember, this is safe answer here. 00:11:06.960 --> 00:11:08.000 This is the safe answer. 00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:09.500 We're going to talk crazy here in a little bit. 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.800 Safe answer improvement number two, not just thinking above the funnel, 00:11:13.800 --> 00:11:17.700 but before the church service and after church service, build these relationships. 00:11:18.380 --> 00:11:19.580 Be a real person. 00:11:19.840 --> 00:11:25.600 Like it's so easy to talk behind the brand and to kind of use the brand language and the brand terms. 00:11:25.800 --> 00:11:27.640 And brand is cold and distant. 00:11:27.800 --> 00:11:30.600 But to be digital, we need to be more engaging. 00:11:31.100 --> 00:11:32.320 How can I pray for you? 00:11:32.660 --> 00:11:37.240 Man, if we don't start every conversation with that digitally, church, we're missing. 00:11:37.380 --> 00:11:41.680 If there's one thing that I think that we missed in this COVID season or coming out of this COVID season, 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:48.400 wherever you think we are, it was this idea of digital prayer that people want to be prayed for. 00:11:48.400 --> 00:11:55.780 Even people cold to Christ, if they think you care about them and that you believe in this Jesus and you believe in this power of prayer, 00:11:55.900 --> 00:11:58.700 then we need to be praying for these people. 00:11:59.060 --> 00:12:01.540 This is the challenge that we have before us. 00:12:01.640 --> 00:12:05.920 How are we praying for these people digitally? 00:12:06.680 --> 00:12:06.980 All right. 00:12:07.220 --> 00:12:09.140 And so I just lost the screen. 00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:11.220 Hopefully you heard all that. 00:12:11.260 --> 00:12:12.900 That was really scary on my side. 00:12:13.220 --> 00:12:16.020 The other thing is that we've got platform agnostic. 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:24.380 Realize that wherever you're reaching people, the challenge is for us is to connect with them in digital space. 00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:29.560 So if somebody's reaching out to you in Facebook, don't send them an email. 00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:31.860 Don't build a relationship via email. 00:12:32.020 --> 00:12:33.140 Don't try to text them. 00:12:33.660 --> 00:12:34.860 Follow back up with them. 00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:38.720 Engage with them in whatever platform they're in. 00:12:38.720 --> 00:12:42.000 So if they've reached out to you in Facebook, utilize Facebook Messenger. 00:12:42.540 --> 00:12:44.100 Don't try to call them. 00:12:44.420 --> 00:12:48.660 They're wanting to dialogue with you via texting and social media. 00:12:49.100 --> 00:12:50.320 Don't break out the phone. 00:12:50.420 --> 00:12:51.920 Don't try to get them in a Zoom room. 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.080 Build the relationship using the tools that you have with them. 00:12:56.480 --> 00:12:58.080 And this may seem even stupid again. 00:12:58.160 --> 00:13:00.540 But once again, play a game with them online. 00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:02.400 Use these devices. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:04.360 It's so easy to play. 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:06.100 I mean, I'm going to date myself here. 00:13:06.200 --> 00:13:11.620 Words with friends or Pokemon Go or whatever it is that's your thing. 00:13:11.620 --> 00:13:21.880 Or try to find a new thing for others to start to involve them, invite them into a place where you can build a relationship. 00:13:22.340 --> 00:13:25.240 Even via playing mobile app games. 00:13:25.640 --> 00:13:28.760 Because the ultimate goal here is to boil the frog slowly. 00:13:28.900 --> 00:13:30.060 I keep using this analogy. 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:33.180 And I apologize for kind of the crudeness of it. 00:13:33.360 --> 00:13:37.400 But take your time online building these relationships. 00:13:37.820 --> 00:13:39.920 Don't rush to turn on the webcam. 00:13:40.060 --> 00:13:41.400 So often I hear from a church. 00:13:41.780 --> 00:13:43.320 It's like, yeah, we're doing the church service. 00:13:43.320 --> 00:13:46.220 And we've got these people that have filled out the connection card. 00:13:46.220 --> 00:13:51.660 And then the next step that we want to do is we want to get them in a Zoom room with the pastor so the pastor can talk with them. 00:13:52.060 --> 00:14:01.200 And it's like, okay, you just went from complete isolation to now there's an opportunity for them to meet the pastor who could be this very intimidating. 00:14:01.400 --> 00:14:05.780 Or the idea of somebody cold to Christ meeting the pastor is very intimidating. 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:08.640 And they're going to have a face-to-face conversation. 00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:09.320 Whoa. 00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:10.920 Pump the brakes a little bit. 00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:13.600 Figure out how to boil that frog slowly. 00:14:13.740 --> 00:14:16.520 How to develop those relationships. 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:18.760 Now, there's value in meeting the pastor. 00:14:18.880 --> 00:14:20.980 There's value in learning more about the church. 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:29.240 But if you're going to do that quickly, if you're going to, you know, jump real quick out to that point, you're going to lose a bunch of people. 00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:36.220 And you're going to get people disconnected because, really, the relationship is what's going to keep them tapped into the church. 00:14:36.400 --> 00:14:44.020 The relationship they have with you, the relationship they have with people that they respect that are in the church, the relationship that they'll grow eventually with the church. 00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:47.880 But that is going to take time to develop and get there. 00:14:48.280 --> 00:14:52.480 Remember, like, with all of this, utilize the text-based platforms. 00:14:52.740 --> 00:14:54.440 Once again, don't rush into the webcam. 00:14:55.000 --> 00:15:00.120 There's plenty of tools out there that you can develop relationships with without having that webcam on. 00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:04.920 Things like Facebook groups before you get to the Zoom small group rooms. 00:15:05.140 --> 00:15:07.640 You're doing a YouVersion Bible reading plan. 00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:12.200 There's ways to engage with hundreds of people using a YouVersion Bible reading plan. 00:15:12.580 --> 00:15:17.440 And you're literally going over Scripture together, getting people's insights through that. 00:15:17.660 --> 00:15:25.160 So, if you've got people that aren't taking that leap to get into that Zoom small group, boil the frog slowly. 00:15:25.340 --> 00:15:28.560 Figure out how to do a WhatsApp prayer group. 00:15:29.260 --> 00:15:34.680 A group me session where you're now starting to gather people together and build that relationship. 00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:36.180 Facebook Messenger groups. 00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:46.120 I mean, there's so many different tools that are out there that involve something more than just jumping into a Zoom room and having that face-to-face conversation. 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:46.620 All right. 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:56.500 So, this is what you're starting to see with this idea of the safe answer where we're building on to this strategy of how we're doing things physically. 00:15:56.740 --> 00:16:03.260 And we're recognizing, hey, there's a weakness above small groups or above the services where we don't know who these people are. 00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:07.080 Let's build relationships before they even get to the service and we can carry it through. 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:10.720 Or maybe there's a weakness in the services to small groups. 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:17.580 We've got to build more relationships there and do some other things other than just try to throw them straight into a Zoom small group. 00:16:17.760 --> 00:16:21.380 So, you're starting to use digital to shore up the physical strategy. 00:16:21.760 --> 00:16:25.700 By the way, this would help in the digital church as well as in your physical church. 00:16:25.880 --> 00:16:33.120 These are some examples of what I've talked about where maybe even building relationships with people physically before we invite them into the service. 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:38.300 So, that way, there's a relationship that can pour upon what happens within that service. 00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.560 It's not a bad idea to do physically either. 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:43.640 But all these are the safe answer. 00:16:43.760 --> 00:16:49.180 All this is like, hey, this is within the reach of what my church is already doing. 00:16:49.440 --> 00:16:53.840 And so, it's a safe bet that if you do these things, it's going to help you immediately. 00:16:54.520 --> 00:16:58.420 Now, what I want to challenge is that there's a different approach. 00:16:59.300 --> 00:17:00.700 And this is what I wanted to talk about here. 00:17:00.760 --> 00:17:05.860 This is where it gets a little crazy here because we're going to start talking about this idea of radical. 00:17:06.540 --> 00:17:11.580 And I would suggest, and I don't say this lightly because I'm actually the guy in my life. 00:17:11.580 --> 00:17:18.220 I've produced tens of thousands of church worship services in my lifetime for multi-site churches, mega-giga churches across the country. 00:17:18.560 --> 00:17:20.400 And there's a challenge that I would say. 00:17:20.820 --> 00:17:26.380 I think the radical answer to this idea of digital discipleship is that we need to get out of the church service business. 00:17:26.640 --> 00:17:32.140 And we need to get back into this idea of disciple-making, whether physical or digital. 00:17:32.360 --> 00:17:37.660 Whatever the term is, we've got to get back into the church disciple-making business. 00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:45.060 Radical thought number one here, the church service, they're losing their effectiveness as the front door of the discipleship pathway. 00:17:45.060 --> 00:17:55.380 As we said earlier, relationships are key, yet we always seem to be pouring more and more energy and effort into what's happening in that physical service on that one hour on Sunday. 00:17:55.820 --> 00:18:05.400 Yet we're recognizing that the—and we're even seeing stats, and we're hearing—Barna, people called to Christ don't care about your digital service, nor do they care about your physical worship service. 00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:12.600 Eighty percent of people called to Christ, if they have spiritual questions, they're going to go to their friends, and they're going to ask their friends spiritual answers. 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:16.080 Hey, we think that you're a spiritual type of person, and you care about this. 00:18:16.140 --> 00:18:17.160 Tell me the answer to this. 00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.460 They're going to go to their friends, or number two, they're going to go to Google. 00:18:20.460 --> 00:18:23.040 They're going to go to YouTube to find spiritual answers. 00:18:23.500 --> 00:18:33.380 So people who have questions about Jesus aren't going to the services, yet our services are the primary place where our strategies focus on evangelism, and it just doesn't make sense. 00:18:34.140 --> 00:18:38.480 Our church services are losing effectiveness as the beginning of our discipleship pathway. 00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:41.500 Now, I've not said that the church services are bad. 00:18:42.220 --> 00:18:44.740 I'm not saying that our large gatherings are not necessary. 00:18:44.900 --> 00:18:45.460 They are. 00:18:45.540 --> 00:18:46.200 They're crucial. 00:18:46.560 --> 00:18:50.600 But we need to understand what role they play in that. 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:53.040 See, we need to recognize that society has changed. 00:18:53.040 --> 00:18:56.700 And I've often told the story here about Billy Graham. 00:18:57.080 --> 00:19:03.140 Billy Graham, 1995, preached one sermon, was literally heard by a billion people around the world. 00:19:03.200 --> 00:19:03.960 That's with a B. 00:19:04.080 --> 00:19:05.600 I don't have time to go into it. 00:19:05.900 --> 00:19:18.400 But at the end of the day, in 95, Billy Graham stood up on a podium, had his message broadcasted, you know, bounced off a bunch of satellites, translated in real time in different languages, spoke to 20% of the world's population at one time. 00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:19.480 Incredible. 00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:24.240 25 years later, that was 95, 2020, 2021. 00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:26.120 There's no way you're going to do that. 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:27.060 Time's done. 00:19:27.140 --> 00:19:27.940 Yeah, technology. 00:19:28.120 --> 00:19:30.920 I've got the power to speak to a billion people literally in my pocket. 00:19:31.320 --> 00:19:32.840 But culture is not going to listen. 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:36.200 As a matter of fact, the top marketing guy, at least here in the U.S., Seth Godin. 00:19:36.620 --> 00:19:37.880 And I've told this story before. 00:19:38.100 --> 00:19:39.960 Hey, you want to get your message heard around the world? 00:19:40.540 --> 00:19:43.360 A billion people don't care about anything that you have to say. 00:19:43.420 --> 00:19:45.800 There's no way you'll get a billion people to listen. 00:19:46.520 --> 00:19:48.300 A hundred million, ten million, one million. 00:19:48.520 --> 00:19:53.700 Listen, you need to tell the smallest number of people possible an idea. 00:19:54.340 --> 00:19:55.300 Get them to listen. 00:19:55.440 --> 00:19:57.540 Not only listen, get them to actually hear it. 00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:00.320 Not only hear it, get them to understand it. 00:20:00.440 --> 00:20:01.380 Get them to own it. 00:20:01.740 --> 00:20:04.100 Get them to tell someone else. 00:20:04.960 --> 00:20:17.120 And so while Billy Graham in 1995, and Billy had an incredible ministry, standing up on stage, preaching in front of tens of thousands of people, millions of people around the country, crusades, all sorts of stuff around the world. 00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:18.860 It doesn't work like that way anymore. 00:20:19.340 --> 00:20:21.760 It does not work that way anymore. 00:20:21.960 --> 00:20:24.320 And so we need to stop thanking broadcasts. 00:20:24.360 --> 00:20:26.460 We need to start thanking individuals. 00:20:27.140 --> 00:20:30.440 The strength of digital is not about reaching masses. 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.680 It's about reaching individuals, wherever they are. 00:20:35.240 --> 00:20:39.880 Which feeds in awesome to this quote from Alan Hirsch, radical thought number two. 00:20:40.400 --> 00:20:43.720 I'd rather have 12 disciples than 1,200 consumers. 00:20:44.380 --> 00:20:46.500 And actually, we see this in the life of Jesus. 00:20:46.720 --> 00:20:50.100 Like, this isn't an Alan Hirsch or a Jeff Reed thing, people talking crazy. 00:20:50.220 --> 00:20:51.660 Go read John 6. 00:20:51.960 --> 00:20:52.980 And dig into that. 00:20:53.040 --> 00:20:54.920 By the way, I don't have time even to dig into this. 00:20:55.000 --> 00:20:57.700 But thechurch.digital slash John 6. 00:20:57.780 --> 00:21:00.360 There's a blog that's written at that website for there. 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:02.580 Thechurch.digital slash John 6. 00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:05.120 At the end of the day, John 6, 66. 00:21:06.360 --> 00:21:07.380 Jesus chases away his disciples. 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:18.460 Literally, by dialoguing with them, he chases away because he was challenging them to the place of doing something different. 00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:28.860 And as a result of that, we're even discovering, man, it's better to have people that are tapped in and are being multiplying, that are sharing their faith, that are ready to go. 00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:30.500 I don't want that consumer. 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:32.220 I want a disciple. 00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:52.460 And Jesus, through John 6, goes through a process of weeding out a lot of the consumers and digging into the place of having the disciples, the core crew that was left that would eventually, the church of Acts would be built upon, the people that would literally be the foundation of the church that we have today. 00:21:52.840 --> 00:21:59.140 The greatest untapped resource that we have in your church that you have in your church right now is literally sitting in your pews. 00:21:59.220 --> 00:21:59.820 They're the consumers. 00:22:00.360 --> 00:22:08.080 The church has a phenomenal human resource available, yet we really don't know what to do with them, which gets me to this point of radical thought number three. 00:22:08.840 --> 00:22:11.900 And this is a work in progress. 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:13.960 So you tell me if you like this or if this is horrible. 00:22:14.420 --> 00:22:15.100 We need to read. 00:22:15.400 --> 00:22:19.460 We need to recruit, equip, develop, excuse me, deploy, and encourage. 00:22:19.540 --> 00:22:20.140 Let me say that again. 00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:23.640 Read, recruit, equip, deploy, and encourage. 00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:25.340 Number one, we've got to recruit people. 00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:31.020 We've got to recruit people that are already in our physical and digital churches, the ones that are already sitting in the pews. 00:22:31.500 --> 00:22:32.660 And we've got to activate them. 00:22:32.920 --> 00:22:34.000 We've got to get them equipped. 00:22:34.460 --> 00:22:37.040 We've got to send them out with the gospel. 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:45.020 We've got to train them utilizing systems like the Timothy Initiative, like Four Fields, Disciples Made, Zoo Made Training. 00:22:45.100 --> 00:22:46.640 There's so many of these resources out there. 00:22:46.680 --> 00:22:48.120 You don't have to reinvent the wheel. 00:22:48.480 --> 00:22:59.100 It's more of taking these resources out there and activating people, equipping them with the understanding that they are capable of being more than just a consumer. 00:22:59.300 --> 00:23:04.200 By the way, the strength of digital right now is training and equipping. 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:12.540 So the fact that we, the church, aren't taking advantage of digital in context of discipling and getting the message out is ridiculous. 00:23:13.200 --> 00:23:16.300 We need to not broadcast our messages to thousands. 00:23:16.700 --> 00:23:27.280 We need to start having individual conversations with the consumers of our church, with the people that want to be activated, with the people that are looking for spiritual purpose, and give them something. 00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:33.840 And then, once we give them, once we train them, once we equip them with this, we need to deploy them. 00:23:34.380 --> 00:23:43.360 We need to send them out to reach their oikos, to reach their circle of influence, to start physically and digitally reaching people. 00:23:43.460 --> 00:23:46.160 We need to create digital missionaries. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:49.140 We need to give purpose to people out there in digital space. 00:23:50.280 --> 00:23:57.380 And once we deploy them, once we send them out to reach the people that God has empowered them to reach, we need to encourage them. 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:05.120 We, the church, need to encourage them continually in their disciple-making process as they start recruiting others. 00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:08.380 Church, we need to focus on multiplication here. 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:15.100 As much and as powerful as our weekend services are, and we've created incredible experiences for the kingdom, 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:19.940 there is an innate power that our churches have that we've not taken advantage of. 00:24:20.340 --> 00:24:27.940 It's getting these people empowered with the gospel and sent back out to tell somebody else. 00:24:28.120 --> 00:24:36.660 And our job is not to hold them accountable as much as to encourage them to take those steps and walk with them in their journey. 00:24:37.180 --> 00:24:43.020 And so the effectiveness of a discipleship pathway, well, shoot, it's really measured in that. 00:24:43.260 --> 00:24:52.820 How effective we are not at making disciples, not reaching people for Jesus, but how effective we are in getting them to reach someone for Jesus. 00:24:53.020 --> 00:24:55.280 We've forgotten this multiplication piece. 00:24:55.380 --> 00:25:00.420 And in this next ministry season, mid, post-COVID, wherever you feel like we are and in the future to come, 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:08.340 it is going to be crucial for us to continue to equip others and help them reach others. 00:25:08.820 --> 00:25:15.900 By the way, how much money would this radical cost, like how much is this going to cost, this radical approach that I'm talking about? 00:25:16.500 --> 00:25:17.400 What am I talking about? 00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:19.860 Zoom accounts, like Facebook, Messenger? 00:25:20.020 --> 00:25:21.320 Like so much of this is cheap. 00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:22.540 So much of this is free. 00:25:23.020 --> 00:25:24.680 So much of this is scalable. 00:25:25.380 --> 00:25:29.700 Like if you really want to be effective as a church, it's not buy that new building. 00:25:29.920 --> 00:25:32.040 It's not buy that new property. 00:25:32.420 --> 00:25:39.540 It's figure out how to more effectively use the people that we have and then let the ministry scale digitally and fidgetally. 00:25:39.600 --> 00:25:43.960 We talk so much about this in the multimodal church, innovation, meetup, all this stuff within Stadia. 00:25:44.200 --> 00:25:47.820 You definitely want to hear this and be a part of it. 00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:57.140 So as we're looking at this, radical thought number three, what if we as a church, what if we focused, what if we started, let's make it easy. 00:25:57.360 --> 00:25:58.500 What if we started an experiment? 00:25:58.960 --> 00:26:00.060 What if we said, hey, you know what? 00:26:00.100 --> 00:26:01.880 I'm going to take 25 people. 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.180 I'm going to take my elder board. 00:26:03.260 --> 00:26:04.460 I'm going to take my key leaders. 00:26:04.840 --> 00:26:07.820 I'm going to take a couple ministry teams and we're going to do this approach. 00:26:08.200 --> 00:26:09.560 I'm going to recruit them. 00:26:09.660 --> 00:26:12.660 I'm going to equip them through some training that's already out there. 00:26:12.800 --> 00:26:15.480 Four fields, no place left, disciples made. 00:26:15.560 --> 00:26:17.160 There's so many options that are out there. 00:26:17.440 --> 00:26:20.820 I'm going to equip them with some of this training and then I'm going to release them. 00:26:20.880 --> 00:26:26.440 I'm going to deploy them to tell other people and I'm going to encourage them on the way. 00:26:26.520 --> 00:26:28.520 I'm going to pray with them as a church. 00:26:28.600 --> 00:26:32.160 We're going to encourage them as we send them out and we're going to see what happens. 00:26:33.740 --> 00:26:34.760 Test God in this. 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:41.540 Listen, there's an idea here that is radical shift away from what we're doing with our physical 00:26:41.540 --> 00:26:42.220 church services. 00:26:42.360 --> 00:26:47.960 And I believe in time as you allow the crock pot to cook, so to speak, you're going to see 00:26:47.960 --> 00:26:49.360 a radical approach that happens. 00:26:49.560 --> 00:26:54.020 Listen, at the end of the day, church online works best not when the church does ministry, 00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.400 but when the church empowers others to do ministry. 00:26:57.740 --> 00:27:01.720 And I think for many of you out there, there's an opportunity here to look at this digital 00:27:01.720 --> 00:27:09.360 engagement pathway, not as a quick fix to validate what's happening in a physical church service, 00:27:09.360 --> 00:27:15.100 but to revolutionize, to change the focus of how your church overall works. 00:27:15.520 --> 00:27:19.240 And yes, that may be a radical approach, but some of you out there are willing to take a 00:27:19.240 --> 00:27:21.420 shot at it and go down this road. 00:27:21.960 --> 00:27:26.460 If you've listened to everything that I've just said and you don't think I'm crazy, first 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:26.980 off, thank you. 00:27:27.320 --> 00:27:28.320 I appreciate that very much. 00:27:28.840 --> 00:27:32.460 Secondly, understand that Stadia, we want to help you in this. 00:27:32.520 --> 00:27:38.540 As radical as this conversation that I just had, we have people that want to walk alongside 00:27:38.540 --> 00:27:42.560 your church and help your church understand how to do this. 00:27:42.620 --> 00:27:47.880 We want to help churches learn to thrive, grow, and multiply in hybrid environments. 00:27:47.980 --> 00:27:48.560 Go ahead and do this. 00:27:48.560 --> 00:27:55.720 Swing over to stadiachurchplanning.org slash FIGITAL, P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:27:55.840 --> 00:27:57.760 Jump in a FIGITAL learning community. 00:27:57.960 --> 00:28:05.220 We literally have this conversation regularly with churches, and we help churches go through 00:28:05.220 --> 00:28:10.700 this process of understanding disciple-making and multiplication in your churches. 00:28:10.860 --> 00:28:16.000 Your next step is to jump in one of these FIGITAL learning communities and start, for 00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:21.020 you, maybe it's an experiment, but start the journey towards recognizing how disciple-making 00:28:21.020 --> 00:28:27.160 can revolutionize FIGITAL disciple-making, can revolutionize what's happening in your church. 00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:31.040 Hey, all right, I've got some feedback that's coming in. 00:28:31.480 --> 00:28:36.000 First off, I love this Let's Get Radical, Jeff, love hearing that. 00:28:36.580 --> 00:28:40.860 Do you have an example of a digital discipleship pathway? 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:44.340 I'm meeting with our discipleship pastor next week. 00:28:44.420 --> 00:28:45.020 That's awesome. 00:28:45.120 --> 00:28:45.680 Hey, you know what? 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:48.080 Yes, yes, I do. 00:28:48.180 --> 00:28:52.340 I will post in the thread here some examples of that. 00:28:53.180 --> 00:28:56.880 I would look at what Tyler Sansom's doing at First Capital Christian Court in Indiana, 00:28:57.300 --> 00:28:57.920 church anywhere. 00:28:58.060 --> 00:28:59.500 Some of the stuff he's doing is great. 00:29:00.000 --> 00:29:02.640 I would look, oh, you know, I'll tell you what, I'll do this. 00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:09.560 Go to FIGITAL.church slash, oh man, I can't pull this link up in the top of my head. 00:29:10.360 --> 00:29:14.420 Jason Morris, I think it's FIGITAL.church slash Jason Morris. 00:29:15.120 --> 00:29:18.740 He's got a presentation that he did for Stadia on that. 00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:20.900 And you can see Jason, God bless Jason. 00:29:21.400 --> 00:29:29.400 Jason has a very rich presentation that's online for that, talking about all the stuff that he's doing. 00:29:29.840 --> 00:29:34.260 Some of it may be overwhelming, but FIGITAL.church slash Jason Morris. 00:29:34.360 --> 00:29:36.520 I'll make sure that that link works later here. 00:29:36.860 --> 00:29:39.740 Tyler Sansom, S-A-N-S-O-M. 00:29:40.800 --> 00:29:48.020 Great tip, the Bible app plans are our most successful text-based conversations. 00:29:48.480 --> 00:29:50.120 I love hearing that. 00:29:50.180 --> 00:29:54.580 The Bible app is not recognized in its ability to be a community. 00:29:55.100 --> 00:29:56.000 Individuals have it. 00:29:56.640 --> 00:29:58.020 Millions of individuals have it. 00:29:58.080 --> 00:30:02.500 The Bible is one of the most downloaded apps there is in the app store. 00:30:02.500 --> 00:30:07.520 And it's a walking community that's available for churches to utilize. 00:30:07.720 --> 00:30:09.780 So I love this tip that's out there. 00:30:09.900 --> 00:30:15.920 And I love the idea that people want to be radical in this. 00:30:16.260 --> 00:30:17.520 So let's continue to be radical. 00:30:17.860 --> 00:30:18.500 Hey, you know what? 00:30:18.660 --> 00:30:21.340 I'm going to address some more of these questions offline. 00:30:21.660 --> 00:30:22.200 We'll do it later. 00:30:22.660 --> 00:30:24.700 If you have questions, go and hit me up. 00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:25.780 Deerfeg. 00:30:26.300 --> 00:30:28.540 I mean, I actually can't get this off the screen. 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:29.340 Here you go. 00:30:29.800 --> 00:30:30.160 Deerfeg. 00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:31.660 D-E-R-F-F-E-J. 00:30:31.660 --> 00:30:32.800 That's me on social media. 00:30:32.920 --> 00:30:33.480 Find me anywhere. 00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:37.080 Hit me up and would love to dialogue with you more on this. 00:30:37.160 --> 00:30:39.000 So I'm Jeff with The Church Digital. 00:30:39.000 --> 00:30:44.280 For me, Jeff, and my Stadia Church planting family, thanks for joining us here for The Beta 00:30:44.280 --> 00:30:44.460 Show. 00:30:44.520 --> 00:30:45.140 And we'll see you next time. 00:30:45.360 --> 00:30:45.840 Y'all have a good one.