WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.300 All right. Hey, everybody. Welcome to Church Digital Podcast. We're doing a live recording 00:00:10.300 --> 00:00:16.200 here. Episode 331. I'm excited about the conversation coming up. Actually, I'm getting 00:00:16.200 --> 00:00:23.840 some action on this conversation in our WhatsApp channel, talking about the role of ministry 00:00:23.840 --> 00:00:31.960 and really the lack of women that are currently speaking in and leading in digital ministry 00:00:31.960 --> 00:00:38.260 circles. And so we've got a lineup of some ladies coming in. As a matter of fact, Amanda 00:00:38.260 --> 00:00:42.520 Souza said hello in chat earlier just a second ago. I want to give a shout out to some of 00:00:42.520 --> 00:00:48.400 the other people hanging out with us in chat. So Edith, Steve, appreciate you coming in. 00:00:48.800 --> 00:00:53.000 Amanda as well. And any of the others that are out there, we'll be keeping an eye on chat. 00:00:53.000 --> 00:00:58.000 So feel free to ask questions as we're going through this. Engage in chat. We'll be sure 00:00:58.000 --> 00:01:04.440 to see you and dialogue with you through this conversation. I want to say up front, talking 00:01:04.440 --> 00:01:11.320 about women in ministry, I don't have answers. I'm probably more of the problem than the solution 00:01:11.320 --> 00:01:17.960 towards this. And we do want to draw attention not only to the issue and the problem of what's 00:01:17.960 --> 00:01:22.600 here. And I don't know that we can solve the problem today, but maybe start to take some 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:32.140 practical steps towards how can we really engage and involve more women in digital ministry moving 00:01:32.140 --> 00:01:37.160 forward. And so looking forward to this conversation. Before we get there, up here, right there, 00:01:37.500 --> 00:01:41.360 point finger that way. It's so hard for me to do this backwards. I don't know if you have 00:01:41.360 --> 00:01:46.160 that problem. But we have our missionary, our digital missionary conference coming up here 00:01:46.160 --> 00:01:55.700 for April 2nd. Missionary.digital is the website. It is a free conference, maybe at seven hours 00:01:55.700 --> 00:02:01.680 in time, six or seven hours at this point. We've got keynotes. There's been so much popularity 00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:08.160 centered around our breakouts. We had to add a whole other breakout session for this to allow 00:02:08.160 --> 00:02:13.380 people opportunities to engage in the breakouts. But here's the cool thing. We just passed 500 registered 00:02:13.380 --> 00:02:19.000 people. We're hoping for 1,000. For the conference, we've just registered 500 people. And the really 00:02:19.000 --> 00:02:25.640 cool thing, 56 nations. I literally counted them in the database today. One by one. Went through the 00:02:25.640 --> 00:02:32.800 entire spreadsheet. 56 different nations represented in those 500 people that are at the conference. 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:40.800 And so we're literally seeing a gospel, a digital global movement happening right here, starting 00:02:40.800 --> 00:02:46.700 right here through the church digital. And so if you're interested in signing up on that conference, 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:52.500 missionary.digital, it's coming up April 2nd, right around the corner. So register on demand. If 00:02:52.500 --> 00:02:57.880 you're not able to catch it live, register anyway, because you've got to register to see it on demand. 00:02:57.880 --> 00:03:04.440 And so register, please get connected and stay tuned to what's happening at the church digital. 00:03:05.160 --> 00:03:11.320 And so I tell you what, I'm going to, I'm going to move off the commercial aspects of this and 00:03:11.320 --> 00:03:18.680 bring on the, the, the women, the ladies for this, this conversation here. We're already getting 00:03:18.680 --> 00:03:23.560 some, some shout outs here. Pastor Susie may be a little biased in this conversation. We'll draw 00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:29.640 attention to this here a little bit. Yo, so pumped for this conversation. Ian Kirk, who's not as biased 00:03:29.640 --> 00:03:35.400 into this, but good topic, both digitally and physically. Ian's a long-term friend. So is Pastor 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:42.960 Susie, which actually, let me introduce first off into the conversation, Amanda Souza, who knows 00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:46.960 Pastor Susie relatively well. Amanda, you want to explain a little bit? 00:03:48.180 --> 00:03:54.580 Yeah. Well, hello, I am Amanda. Pastor Susie is my husband, so that's why I know him decently 00:03:54.580 --> 00:04:01.520 well. Hopefully more than decently, actually. We've been married for over 10 years now, but 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:08.840 yeah, we, we started a church called XP Church. Well, wasn't that, it wasn't called that when 00:04:08.840 --> 00:04:14.160 we started it, but it is, we just changed the name of the church this past year. But yeah, 00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:22.020 so we, we, we together a church for gamers online, um, called XP Church and I am the executive lead 00:04:22.020 --> 00:04:29.680 pastor. So I very much work alongside my husband. Um, and I basically do all the executing of the 00:04:29.680 --> 00:04:39.300 things in a very, very short way, but that is a little bit of me. Yeah. So, so basically, uh, Susie's 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:44.160 the pretty face and you get all the work done. That that's pretty much how, when I look at XP 00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:48.560 Church, that's, that's what I think about. You're, you're running the thing in the background, 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:55.820 uh, making Susie look good. So, so appreciate that. And, uh, xpchurch.com, uh, more, more 00:04:55.820 --> 00:05:01.200 information over there. Uh, glad, glad to have you here, uh, Amanda, uh, Nicole Howard, uh, 00:05:01.200 --> 00:05:07.040 next up on my screen. Uh, Nicole's been doing a lot of work with the church digital for years 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:11.360 now. Now it feels like Nicole, maybe you want to tell them a little bit about you and your ministry. 00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:18.480 Yes. So, Hey, Nicole Howard here, Gen Z, Gen Alpha Catalyst. Um, I do a lot of stuff as Jeff 00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:26.520 said, so, but the primary stuff is youth and kids. Um, so I do have, uh, Pathfinders with the 00:05:26.520 --> 00:05:31.220 support of this network. We were able to launch that, which is global. Anybody can use it anywhere. 00:05:31.220 --> 00:05:36.980 So kids fully have access to Jesus in a digital realm, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Um, 00:05:36.980 --> 00:05:40.580 so I'm just, I'm really enjoying being here as a digital missionary. 00:05:41.580 --> 00:05:47.020 Awesome. Love, love that. It's been a lot of fun working, uh, with Nicole and, and exploring really 00:05:47.020 --> 00:05:53.180 digital discipleship in, uh, at, at a global scale centered around Gen A and Gen Z. And, uh, 00:05:53.420 --> 00:05:57.680 you know, I, I, I, it's interesting. We've actually been having like a lot of kids and 00:05:57.680 --> 00:06:01.200 students, students, more of the right word, you know, high school kids starting to come into, 00:06:01.200 --> 00:06:07.280 to TCD. And, and, and, and I love, I mean, I love my kids. My kids are that age. Um, not, 00:06:07.340 --> 00:06:13.380 not so much other people's kids. And so even learning from Nicole, like how to handle, um, 00:06:13.460 --> 00:06:18.760 and, uh, and do some of that. I clearly remember the moment in my life when God said, Jeff, you are 00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:24.320 not a youth pastor. And that was like a very audible moment for me. And so even beyond that, 00:06:24.640 --> 00:06:28.920 how are we embracing and working with these kids digitally? It's, it's, it's a fun part to be a 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:35.840 part of. And also here globally, it's, it's been a lot of fun to see, uh, and both Sarge's, uh, 00:06:36.140 --> 00:06:44.000 ministry really expand, you know, and I feel like I first met you when you were, uh, still at, uh, at 00:06:44.000 --> 00:06:49.520 the, the, the church you were at for a while and, and, and growing a digital ministry that also, 00:06:49.520 --> 00:06:55.680 that actually kind of left the physical church and stood on its own. And, and, and now you're, 00:06:55.680 --> 00:07:02.600 you're discipling people globally with the, with a strong presence in Africa. So, and maybe tell 00:07:02.600 --> 00:07:08.680 them a little bit about your ministry. Yeah, I'm Anne Bosarge and I have the opportunity, 00:07:08.940 --> 00:07:15.140 the privilege to lead an organization called Digital Discipleship. And we work around the globe 00:07:15.140 --> 00:07:22.600 to reignite a passion for discipleship. So we do that in a couple of different ways. We do an online 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:30.620 women's and men's ministry that is called Becoming More. We also do daily discipleship in the online 00:07:30.620 --> 00:07:38.680 chapel. And we actually have a digital forward child sponsorship organization where we put our 00:07:38.680 --> 00:07:46.700 discipleship into action through child sponsorship in Uganda. So we, um, operate on Facebook primarily 00:07:46.700 --> 00:07:54.520 and WhatsApp as well. Awesome. It's been so exciting to see that, that organization grow. And, and even as 00:07:54.520 --> 00:08:00.720 we've started to the church digital extend globally and deal with contextualizations and, and, and things 00:08:00.720 --> 00:08:06.300 like that, it's been, uh, we've brought Anne alongside to coach some of our leadership and, and, and learn, 00:08:06.300 --> 00:08:13.260 uh, from some of the work that, that she's doing at a global scale. And so as we're getting into this, 00:08:13.260 --> 00:08:20.160 I would love to draw. And it's interesting just now, pastor D, uh, coming in, who's also, um, uh, a long 00:08:20.160 --> 00:08:26.100 time friend of the church digital just comes into the house. And so it was funny. I actually, I told 00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:29.980 pastor D I was like, probably should have had you come on this thing as well, because she is so, 00:08:29.980 --> 00:08:37.520 uh, vocal and, and, and so strong as, as a, as a female pastor in a house of his glory as a, 00:08:37.520 --> 00:08:44.360 as a digital church, but doing this decade almost if, if not more. And so you've got a lot of, uh, long-term 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:50.260 women who are represented on this screen, but, but really I would suggest maybe even this just open up the 00:08:50.260 --> 00:08:57.640 conversation. Um, there, there's, uh, um, some difficulty, some, some hesitancy. I was telling Amanda 00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:05.400 actually before this, this, the, the convo, like before we started streaming, you know, I, I book conferences, 00:09:05.400 --> 00:09:13.920 design the digital missionary conference. I, I book conferences all the time and I am constantly, 00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:21.660 okay. Like who's out there in, in, in female space, who's doing something. And, and, and like, 00:09:21.720 --> 00:09:26.040 like men, I don't have to assist. I don't want to make this about me, but men, I don't have to look 00:09:26.040 --> 00:09:33.700 hard. Women, I often find like, I have to really dig in and dig through the weeds to try to find, 00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:37.820 do you know somebody, do you know somebody what's going on to, to really start, start to get down 00:09:37.820 --> 00:09:44.840 where, um, it's, it's obviously a lot more of a, it feels like it's more male dominated 00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:51.340 ministry area. And I would even call out, I love my YouTube subscribers. Thank you for this. No guilt 00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:59.880 implied. Um, YouTube tells me analytics wise that 97% of my subscribers to the church digital are male, 00:09:59.980 --> 00:10:09.980 97%. Like I have to work hard. It feels like to get 97% of men to engage and no women, but we're very 00:10:09.980 --> 00:10:16.380 open to, to this. And so like, I just would love to maybe start the conversation, uh, with you all. 00:10:17.060 --> 00:10:24.140 Uh, do you feel this tension of being like an, in a male dominated environment? Let me just open up, 00:10:24.140 --> 00:10:31.120 let anybody share as they feel like, like, um, what do you feel or see when you look at, uh, being a, 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:41.440 a woman in digital ministry today? Amanda, you want to kick us off? I'll let, I'll make you the guilty 00:10:41.440 --> 00:10:46.060 one, uh, up front here and, uh, and let's get the others to engage in. 00:10:47.620 --> 00:10:50.020 Um, yeah, sure. So, uh, 00:10:51.760 --> 00:10:52.140 I, 00:10:52.660 --> 00:10:56.440 I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll say, I don't see 00:10:56.440 --> 00:10:58.660 a lot of the issues. 00:11:03.440 --> 00:11:11.080 physical ministry, online, digital ministry, like they're just, you don't see many women 00:11:11.080 --> 00:11:18.200 represented. And I, I would say it's just a problem that we have in general. Um, and I ask 00:11:18.200 --> 00:11:22.660 myself that I have, I have such a packed answer. So I'm so hesitant to start. Cause I don't like, 00:11:22.660 --> 00:11:29.280 once I get going, like I, I have a hard time. I have a lot to say on this. Um, so I don't want 00:11:29.280 --> 00:11:34.280 to like start off, but I would say I would, yeah, just to simply start off. Like, I really just think 00:11:34.280 --> 00:11:39.860 that it is just an issue in your physical churches and your, in your typical, like, you know, brick 00:11:39.860 --> 00:11:47.620 and mortar ministries, you know, and it translates online. Um, you know, yeah. So it's, I'm having a 00:11:47.620 --> 00:11:52.200 hard time answering that without going off on my tangent. I want to, you know, I don't want to just 00:11:52.200 --> 00:11:56.400 go off and take over, but. So you're going to save the bullets for, for a little bit. That's cool. 00:11:56.400 --> 00:12:01.520 Well, I respect that. Thank you. Um, uh, Nicole, what, what are you, I cut you off earlier. I 00:12:01.520 --> 00:12:05.580 apologize. What were you going to say? No, I was good. I was definitely thinking, I was like, 00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:09.420 okay, not all of us at the same time. When has that ever happened that three women in the room 00:12:09.420 --> 00:12:15.140 didn't have something to say at the same time? I'm just like, let's get it. Um, so yeah, you know, 00:12:15.380 --> 00:12:21.340 aside from, I love how Amanda kicked that off because it's almost become, it has become a 00:12:21.340 --> 00:12:27.120 societal expectation. We hear ministry, they're expecting the male version of it. Um, and then 00:12:27.120 --> 00:12:35.580 for the lack of leadership representation, we don't have anyone out there doing it to say, 00:12:35.720 --> 00:12:40.860 okay, it's possible for me to go do it. So where, who's, who's guiding me if I'm guiding everybody 00:12:40.860 --> 00:12:45.480 else, who's going to feed into me if I'm feeding everybody else. So you, you have this place where 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:49.760 you're like, I'm hesitant to go out there and do that. And so you can't find us because 00:12:49.760 --> 00:12:55.740 there's no one out there for us to come under to be represented. Yeah. Uh, and you would agree 00:12:55.740 --> 00:13:03.360 with that? Absolutely. I would agree with that. And I think, you know, I never knew that being 00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:10.580 a pastor, that leading a ministry like this was something that I was able to do. You know, 00:13:10.580 --> 00:13:17.540 I grew up in a, in an environment where that was a man's job. And so it didn't even occur to me. Like 00:13:17.540 --> 00:13:23.140 when I was a young child, I didn't say I want to grow up and be a pastor. Um, but yet here I am 00:13:23.140 --> 00:13:29.900 doing something that I didn't even know was available to me in those, in those formative times. It wasn't 00:13:29.900 --> 00:13:36.500 until, you know, much later in life that I realized, oh, God has a calling on my life. And it's more 00:13:36.500 --> 00:13:42.820 than what I have served in ministry. Um, it looks different than what I thought it could possibly 00:13:42.820 --> 00:13:50.240 be. And so I think, you know, from my situation, I didn't even know that that was something that was 00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:57.500 available to me as a woman. And so, you know, just like you said that it's, um, we don't have those 00:13:57.500 --> 00:14:03.420 kinds of examples to look to many of us. And especially in the digital space, because that is 00:14:03.420 --> 00:14:12.760 so new, we have even fewer examples. So. Yeah. Um, and, uh, excuse me, not, not, not an pastor D, 00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:20.180 uh, shares here, uh, feels like all of ministry is male dominated. Uh, the last industry to accept 00:14:20.180 --> 00:14:25.440 women in general. It's interesting. I never actually considered that I male dominated. Yes. 00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:31.640 The, the last in industry to, to really, to really accept that, uh, does that resonate across the 00:14:31.640 --> 00:14:38.400 crowd? As you look at that, the last industry to, to accept women, um, how, how let's, let's be 00:14:38.400 --> 00:14:42.440 personal here for a second. How does that make you feel? Like how, how do you respond to maybe that 00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:49.560 idea? Oh, can I take it ladies? Go ahead. So we're going to take it biblically. And if y'all, 00:14:49.560 --> 00:14:56.440 if I'm wrong, y'all tell me, but the Lord said that the first shall be last and the last shall be the 00:14:56.440 --> 00:15:01.680 first. So it's coming. And I hope that our male counterparts are ready. 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:18.060 Uh, Oh, I'm suddenly very afraid. Wow. Um, so what do we is, is the problem as was, was described that 00:15:18.060 --> 00:15:26.400 there was no, you know, little Ann, uh, as a child had no vision for, for wanting to do something like 00:15:26.400 --> 00:15:31.220 this because it wasn't on the table. You know, I, I tell the story. I wanted to be a digital pastor 00:15:31.220 --> 00:15:39.640 when I was 12 years old as, as a, as an eighth grader, um, 1988, 89. And so like, I've, I've had 00:15:39.640 --> 00:15:48.260 that vision for 25, 35 years of my life. Um, but is, is, is, is the problem really that it just wasn't on 00:15:48.260 --> 00:15:53.720 the table? The girls didn't know that that was an option. Like, is, is that the, is that the source 00:15:53.720 --> 00:15:55.780 of this? Are there other things that we need to look at? 00:15:58.300 --> 00:16:06.020 I think I would say for me that that is definitely where it started, but then what I needed was the 00:16:06.020 --> 00:16:16.460 opportunity to have some mentors in my life that kind of rewired my thinking around that area. Um, 00:16:16.460 --> 00:16:24.580 and mentors that were men because, you know, most pastors, most people in ministry are men. And so 00:16:24.580 --> 00:16:32.640 just in general, what I needed in order to shift my thinking were men that gave me that opportunity 00:16:32.640 --> 00:16:39.380 opportunity to step into my pastoral calling that I didn't even, they recognized it in my life before 00:16:39.380 --> 00:16:47.440 I did. Um, and we need more of those men to be fostering up women and calling out the calling that 00:16:47.440 --> 00:16:53.960 is on their lives and then making space for them to live that out. Um, because without that space, 00:16:54.040 --> 00:16:59.300 without that renewing of our minds, if we've been told that we can't, that this is not available to us, 00:16:59.300 --> 00:17:04.540 then we don't even know any better. We don't even, we can't even see that that is a possibility. 00:17:07.180 --> 00:17:16.980 Yeah. Yeah. And that pathway to, uh, the pathway to leadership is not designed with a female in 00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:21.340 mind. The types of supports that I would need would be different from the types of supports 00:17:21.340 --> 00:17:27.680 that my counterpart would need. Um, so just even in looking at that, like how are, how are you set up 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:36.320 to, uh, assess leadership within this community of believers that are given the mantle of pastoral 00:17:36.320 --> 00:17:41.960 ship? And then let's just add that it's digitally, like we're not adding, we're, we're stating and 00:17:41.960 --> 00:17:49.060 maintaining that it is digitally. So there, there is not a process for that. So I may have the world's 00:17:49.060 --> 00:17:55.960 greatest mentor, renowned book writer, but he doesn't know how to lead me digitally, nor as a woman. 00:17:57.560 --> 00:18:07.880 Hmm. There it's, and, um, pastor D says here, the persecution is real now. I actually, and I'm not, 00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:13.020 and I'm not calling pastor D out, but I've, I've seen this word persecution a couple of times 00:18:13.020 --> 00:18:17.640 and, and, and, and, and I'm just going to be honest right here. The male part of me, I love you, 00:18:17.680 --> 00:18:26.220 pastor D the male part of me is like, Whoa, persecution. Like to me, that's a, that's a freaking strong word, 00:18:26.220 --> 00:18:34.020 um, in that. Um, and so humbly I'm asking this question. Do you all feel persecuted? Do you feel 00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:38.600 like there there's okay? Um, Amanda, I didn't even finish the question. You're shaking your head. Yes. 00:18:39.140 --> 00:18:43.760 Amanda, talk to me a little bit. What are you, what are you feeling here at come when it comes to 00:18:43.760 --> 00:18:50.420 persecution? Yeah. Um, I did switch my mic because I was told by my husband that it was the wrong one. 00:18:50.420 --> 00:18:55.840 So do I sound okay now? You sound much better. And thank you, Pastor Susie for stepping in. 00:18:56.440 --> 00:19:02.840 I had no idea. I had the wrong one. Um, okay, good. Anyways. Um, yes, I would agree with that 00:19:02.840 --> 00:19:11.040 statement wholeheartedly. Um, I, uh, I have a similar story to Ann, but honestly it's kind of flipped. 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:17.720 So it's similar, but yet very different. I grew up in the assemblies of God, which does support women in, 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:24.620 in pastoral roles and whatnot. Um, granted every church is different. Um, and so I grew up, you know, 00:19:24.620 --> 00:19:30.840 I saw examples of amazing, godly women in leadership and, you know, still struggling with 00:19:30.840 --> 00:19:37.020 some persecution, even in a denomination that supports them. Um, but I was like, I can do this. 00:19:37.020 --> 00:19:41.460 And I, for me, I just wanted to be a worship pastor. I went to school for worship ministry, 00:19:41.460 --> 00:19:47.700 you know, and obviously sometimes God changes, you know, things unexpectedly. Never thought I would 00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:56.680 be leading a church for gamers online. Um, but it wasn't until I became a pastor online that I was 00:19:56.680 --> 00:20:04.660 like, oh, oh, I'm a controversy. Like people, people aren't for women pastors. People don't like 00:20:04.660 --> 00:20:08.540 that I'm a pastor. Like, I didn't know that this was a thing. Like I didn't understand. 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:14.120 And then I really began to struggle with it because, you know, it was just how I was raised. 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:20.440 And I'll be honest, like, I just like, I didn't know anything different. And so I began to like 00:20:20.440 --> 00:20:28.220 second guess myself, second guess my calling. And it wasn't until I studied myself and I went and I 00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:32.600 went, you know, I was like, you know, I hear all of these voices. I hear all of these voices online, 00:20:32.600 --> 00:20:38.460 you know, whether they're nice voices, unkind voices, um, just telling me what I can and cannot 00:20:38.460 --> 00:20:44.020 do in ministry. I'm going to go and I'm going to figure this out for myself. And so I sought out, 00:20:44.020 --> 00:20:49.140 you know, some, some women that I know who are in ministry and fight for women in ministry, 00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:55.980 you know, reading books, studying scripture. And then I, I found confidence in scripture that, 00:20:56.140 --> 00:21:03.360 yeah, like I, I can, I can be a woman in ministry, top ministry, like leadership positions, 00:21:03.360 --> 00:21:09.680 like a pastor or, you know, anything of the like. Um, but I faced so much persecution. 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:15.780 I even faced persecution, like I would say like a week or so ago, um, because we do live streams 00:21:15.780 --> 00:21:21.460 for our church and I was just like hosting service and there was somebody in chat spamming like second 00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:28.400 Timothy two, you know, like all the verses of women and stuff. And, and I was like, I'm not even, 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:34.240 I'm just talking to people. Like I'm just here talking to people and I have people, you know, 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:38.940 spamming chat that literally happened like two weeks ago. I've had somebody join our discord server 00:21:38.940 --> 00:21:44.020 in the church, you know, send me a DM again with the second Timothy two, and then like leave our 00:21:44.020 --> 00:21:51.920 server, um, like immediately after. Um, and I'm like, who are you? Like, why? Like, what are you 00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:58.900 trying to accomplish with that? And I had never faced all of this to the, to the extent that I have, 00:21:58.940 --> 00:22:05.060 as I have being online. And because you're just, you're, you're open and available to the entire 00:22:05.060 --> 00:22:10.380 internet, right. Where there's so many opinions, there's so many people with good, bad intentions, 00:22:10.380 --> 00:22:18.520 you know, who can keyboard warrior and say whatever they want to you and feel like they have no, um, 00:22:19.080 --> 00:22:25.340 I guess like, uh, repercussions to it or whatever. Um, granted it also happened to me in in-person 00:22:25.340 --> 00:22:32.100 ministry before I even was remotely close to doing online ministry. Um, but I could go on again, 00:22:32.100 --> 00:22:36.360 I could go on about it, but I would say, yeah, like there's definitely a lot of that floating 00:22:36.360 --> 00:22:42.060 around and especially online. It is so easy for somebody to just like, you know, and hit send 00:22:42.060 --> 00:22:48.320 and, you know, yeah, it's really frustrating. And Nicole, would you, would you agree with that, 00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:54.020 that, uh, the keyboard warriors, so to speak, um, it's maybe escalated a little bit higher 00:22:54.020 --> 00:23:02.360 in, in digital than in physical and go ahead. I would say for sure it has in my experience. Um, 00:23:02.520 --> 00:23:09.880 the interesting thing for me is that I definitely started out in person before moving to digital 00:23:09.880 --> 00:23:17.340 ministry and pastoring and things like that. And, you know, from the time I began moving into my calling 00:23:17.340 --> 00:23:22.880 and stepping into my calling, I noticed that there were certain people that would speak 00:23:22.880 --> 00:23:29.520 differently to me than they would to my male counterparts. Um, and, and when we move on to 00:23:29.520 --> 00:23:35.720 digital, yes, there are those people that will just type out a comment, just not even knowing me, 00:23:35.780 --> 00:23:40.340 not even listening to anything that I'm saying, but just type out that comment. But the beautiful 00:23:40.340 --> 00:23:46.700 thing is that I can delete that comment and I can block that person, but in person, I cannot do that. 00:23:47.160 --> 00:23:55.200 And so for me, the digital space is a little bit easier because, um, because there, you can create 00:23:55.200 --> 00:24:01.220 more boundaries around it, but when you're in person, you, you just sometimes don't have anywhere 00:24:01.220 --> 00:24:09.400 else to go. Right. And so, yes, I have definitely felt that. Um, but I have felt like it's easier. 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:14.780 It's more frequent, I would say in the digital space, but it's easier to create some boundaries 00:24:14.780 --> 00:24:20.320 around the people that really want to engage that conversation. But most of them don't, um, 00:24:20.320 --> 00:24:26.280 to your point, most of them do not. They just want to prove something and then leave. So there's no 00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:31.680 kind of correspondence or discussion that goes on with that. But for sure, I have found that to be true. 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:33.140 Nicole, are you feeling that too? 00:24:33.920 --> 00:24:38.500 Yeah, I, I feel that, you know, I'm listening. And when you said persecution, you know, 00:24:38.500 --> 00:24:44.000 I think about all the missionaries that I saw come through in person in church, and they would 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:53.160 talk about persecution and it's, it's purpose is to stamp out a movement. And so if God, we know God, 00:24:53.240 --> 00:25:00.500 not even if, but we know that God is using us and to embark upon this very different missionary field, 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:07.540 then the persecution has to come some way. Because if I feel safe and feel brave in this space to ask my 00:25:07.540 --> 00:25:14.560 questions about Jesus, then there has to uprise a keyboard warrior to try to stamp out what's 00:25:14.560 --> 00:25:22.220 happening. How else would you do war on the internet? And so warfare, just the same, which falls same in 00:25:22.220 --> 00:25:27.600 persecution. If I'm being persecuted, it's time for warfare. It's preparation, letting me know that, 00:25:27.820 --> 00:25:33.460 whatever message God has that's coming through me, it's going where it's supposed to go. And it's 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:36.340 doing what it's supposed to do because here comes persecution. 00:25:37.120 --> 00:25:44.080 Wow. Well, I mean, you're, you're painting a graphic picture, uh, you're Pastor D, uh, the more 00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:49.200 visible on, you're more visible online and the hater spammers and like also have easier access to you. 00:25:49.380 --> 00:25:53.560 You know, the keyboard warrior that dropped the bomb and run, you know, I, I hear that and I'm like, 00:25:53.620 --> 00:25:58.400 coward. Like if you're going to drop a bomb, at least stick around for the fight, um, stand up to 00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:04.360 that. But I'm a man. So forgive me for that. Um, but let, let me ask in, in, in all seriousness, 00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:12.640 digitally. And it's like all of you organizationally, and you probably have the best ecosystem 00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:19.340 around you, but you know, Nicole, I know the church digitals played a big part in your ecosystem. 00:26:19.980 --> 00:26:27.660 Um, Amanda, like you've got a team around you with, with XP church, but like in those moments, 00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:31.780 when you're in the middle of this persecution, we're in the middle of this attack, where do you 00:26:31.780 --> 00:26:38.100 go? How do you withstand this? Who, who, who do you talk to? How do you overcome that situation? 00:26:38.260 --> 00:26:43.920 Pastor D, I would even love to know your take on that. So any of you ladies, how, how do you 00:26:43.920 --> 00:26:46.780 withstand some of this persecution, some of these attacks? 00:26:49.160 --> 00:26:58.520 I think for me, I have an amazing team, um, around me. And what I often find is that when I'm online, 00:26:58.520 --> 00:27:06.260 um, before I even have the chance to respond to it, they are responding for me. And, and I just find 00:27:06.260 --> 00:27:13.660 so much comfort in that. But then I also have sought out other women in ministry that I can go to, 00:27:13.660 --> 00:27:18.980 to say, Hey, is it just me? Am I overreacting to this situation? You know, I don't want to be 00:27:18.980 --> 00:27:26.060 considered that emotional woman that is taking things too seriously. Um, I, you know, I want to make sure 00:27:26.060 --> 00:27:31.360 that I am level-headed, that I'm thinking clearly. And so to be able to have some other women in 00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:37.740 ministry to go to for support has been absolutely a game changer. And then to have other people around 00:27:37.740 --> 00:27:44.380 me that are speaking the truth to the lies, even on my behalf, even before I can get to the comments, 00:27:44.940 --> 00:27:51.020 absolutely is, um, helps to protect my soul and helps to protect my mind from the things that I'm 00:27:51.020 --> 00:27:56.620 reading. Yeah. Any other thoughts on that? 00:27:56.620 --> 00:28:05.900 My aspects work a little differently. So, um, I, I picked this up from an in-person gathering. 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:11.260 When someone was getting ready to speak at this IRL gathering, the individual would go to the prayer 00:28:11.260 --> 00:28:15.580 chapel and a group of people would be in there praying for that person. And then they would go 00:28:15.580 --> 00:28:20.540 speak. And when they went to speak, there's always someone in that same prayer chapel praying over 00:28:20.540 --> 00:28:27.100 them as they speak. And then when they come back, there's someone to pray them down. Um, so whenever 00:28:27.100 --> 00:28:33.900 I have to do any type of ministry, there is a team of people praying over those dates before they even 00:28:33.900 --> 00:28:38.620 get here. Then there's a team that prays over me. There's a team that's praying when it's happening. 00:28:38.620 --> 00:28:44.540 And then there's a team praying me down. And even in the midst of that, the first and foremost is that 00:28:45.260 --> 00:28:51.260 this is a mantle. We can't forget that. And with every mantle comes a host of heavenly angels. 00:28:51.260 --> 00:28:56.220 They've got it covered. Y'all can do what you like. You're not going to get to me unless you come 00:28:56.220 --> 00:29:02.620 through the father. And I don't think you're going to make it. You know? So I'm just like, okay. And then 00:29:02.620 --> 00:29:07.660 I do have a spiritual mother. I do. I do. And I'm just like, Hey, just like Ann said, I'm like, 00:29:09.020 --> 00:29:14.940 did I miss it? Or did they come for me? Like, you know, in kids' terms, you know, 00:29:14.940 --> 00:29:22.700 I'm in youth ministry. I'm like, bet. So we level up, we fast, we pray some more and we come again. 00:29:22.700 --> 00:29:28.620 I'm like, okay, let's try this again. Anything to add to that, Amanda? 00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:38.620 Yeah. Um, for me, it's been huge to have my husband being so vocally and like, just obviously, 00:29:39.340 --> 00:29:48.620 supportive of me being a pastor. Um, our team is, um, all for it as well. Um, our church, you know, 00:29:48.620 --> 00:29:55.740 majority of the people in our church are, and there was actually, um, a few weeks ago, I preached, um, 00:29:55.740 --> 00:30:02.460 on the topic of a woman's role in marriage. Um, funny enough, um, considering this conversation 00:30:02.460 --> 00:30:08.940 today, it was, you know, uh, it was good, but our team was literally prepared. Um, just in case while 00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:14.300 Amanda is preaching on this topic, and I don't preach often, it's very, very rare, but you know, 00:30:14.300 --> 00:30:18.940 while Amanda is preaching, if there's anybody who comes in the chat, you know, spamming the usual, 00:30:18.940 --> 00:30:26.060 like, you know, second Timothy, we are going to be ready to support her, have her back, um, and, 00:30:26.060 --> 00:30:32.140 you know, correct that in the chat. And they, they were ready. They were ready. Um, surprisingly, 00:30:32.140 --> 00:30:37.980 no one actually said anything, um, which I'm very thankful for, but yeah, knowing I have a team that 00:30:37.980 --> 00:30:46.620 has my back. Um, I have an incredible mentor who is a pastor. Um, she has been huge, um, just a huge 00:30:46.620 --> 00:30:52.620 encouragement, um, in my life. Um, I have friends who are also a ministry. Like I have a friend who's 00:30:52.620 --> 00:30:58.860 literally a missionary, um, on her way to the mission field as we speak. Um, and so just surrounding 00:30:58.860 --> 00:31:06.620 myself with women and having a team that has my back, my husband, it's just, all of that has been 00:31:06.620 --> 00:31:12.140 huge for me. Yeah. I'm curious. And we're going to get to ukulele's comments here in a second, 00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:21.020 but before I do that, does your support team need to understand digital? Like, you know, Nicole, 00:31:21.020 --> 00:31:25.740 you're talking about your spiritual mother, uh, speaking this thing, and you're, you've got a, 00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:34.460 a group of ladies that you work with, do they understand digital or is it just, they approve 00:31:34.460 --> 00:31:39.420 of digital in that you're doing ministry? Like, are they digital savvy? I'm just wondering kind 00:31:39.420 --> 00:31:43.500 of the strength of that because you're really, I mean, to be honest, you're kind of bucking the 00:31:43.500 --> 00:31:48.540 system in two different areas. One, you're women and one in the second, you're doing it in a non-physical 00:31:48.540 --> 00:31:54.540 environment. And so how much does that come into play as you're looking for a support system? 00:31:55.740 --> 00:32:01.820 Nicole, you want to go first? Sure. You see where I'm like, don't do it. Okay. So, um, 00:32:02.700 --> 00:32:08.940 yeah. So no, I would say no, because in the team, there's mixed people. There are people who 00:32:08.940 --> 00:32:14.780 fully know what this means, what it looks like and are like proactively thinking what's going to come 00:32:14.780 --> 00:32:19.020 against me. There are people that have no understanding of what I'm doing. They just know 00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:23.980 that God has blessed me to do it. And this is how they can support me. And then you have those people 00:32:23.980 --> 00:32:29.180 that know just enough to be dangerous. So the team is very, very mixed. And I feel like 00:32:30.780 --> 00:32:34.140 we don't always know what the pastor is going to get up and preach on, 00:32:34.140 --> 00:32:37.900 but we know it's going to be a message from God. That's where my team rests. 00:32:37.900 --> 00:32:43.980 And does that resonate with you? For sure. And I think, you know, 00:32:43.980 --> 00:32:49.660 one of the things that I wanted to do as I was stepping into this digital space was to invite 00:32:49.660 --> 00:32:55.580 other women to come along with me. And, you know, I let them know early on, I'm like, I don't really 00:32:55.580 --> 00:33:02.540 know exactly what this is going to look like, but let's do it together. And so there were three women 00:33:02.540 --> 00:33:10.620 that started this organization from, um, from the ground up. And so definitely they understood 00:33:10.620 --> 00:33:18.300 everything about all of the nuances of being digital and they have been involved, you know, very, 00:33:18.300 --> 00:33:25.180 very intricately with that. Um, but also just for me, other women in ministry that just look out for my 00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:32.380 heart. Um, you know, there's no digital component to that. Um, it's just looking out for me and my heart 00:33:32.380 --> 00:33:40.700 and how I'm doing spiritually. And so I think both is important. I don't, you have to have a digital 00:33:40.700 --> 00:33:46.460 understanding in order to understand what it's like to be a woman that works in a very male dominated 00:33:46.460 --> 00:33:55.180 space. And so, and so I think it's both for me. Yeah. Ukulele says here, and I'm curious, uh, y'all's 00:33:55.180 --> 00:34:02.220 take on this, uh, another layer things we offer for women at church are about marriage, parenting, and 00:34:02.220 --> 00:34:09.980 prayer, not as often about leadership, deep Bible study, uh, et cetera. Um, would, would you all 00:34:09.980 --> 00:34:15.020 agree to this or care to share an opinion on that? Uh, Amanda, you're shaking your head. Yes. Pretty 00:34:15.020 --> 00:34:21.500 strongly. Why don't you kick it off? Yeah, no, I would definitely agree. Um, I think just churches in 00:34:21.500 --> 00:34:30.540 general, um, yeah, there just needs to be more intentionality to teach and train women in ministry. 00:34:30.540 --> 00:34:35.740 But I think it also starts with like, does that church support it? Because I think we all know, 00:34:35.740 --> 00:34:39.980 like, there are just a lot of people, a lot of churches out there that just genuinely don't believe 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:45.900 that it's right. So I think that that is of course the first hurdle. Um, but then when you do find a 00:34:45.900 --> 00:34:52.940 church that does support it, how intentional are they to empower, encourage, teach, train those 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:58.940 women, you know, not just to lead the children's ministry, you know, but like, or a woman's ministry, 00:34:58.940 --> 00:35:04.300 which of course, all of that is so good. And like, I mean, I, I lead our women's ministry in our church. 00:35:04.860 --> 00:35:11.980 Um, but you know, taking that step further, you know, of, you know, yes, you can be a pastor, 00:35:11.980 --> 00:35:18.300 not just to children and other women, like you can lead, you can be a spiritual figure in the church 00:35:18.300 --> 00:35:26.220 and in your ministry in more ways that, you know, you may think or, or believe or have been told. 00:35:26.220 --> 00:35:33.340 And yeah, I would definitely agree that there hasn't been enough of that available to women in churches. 00:35:33.340 --> 00:35:37.820 Um, and just in general, I know we did, I did a Bible study cause I was like, you know what, 00:35:38.780 --> 00:35:45.500 I, I want to take women along in this journey. And so we actually did a Bible study on the topic, 00:35:45.500 --> 00:35:50.780 um, in our church, you know, we do small groups in our church and we did one semester was on, 00:35:51.660 --> 00:35:57.900 um, a book that, you know, is on the topic and we just, we just dove deep into the topic together 00:35:57.900 --> 00:36:02.780 and we talked about it. And I think it really helped and encouraged a lot of women in the church 00:36:02.780 --> 00:36:07.100 going through that, that book in that, that Bible study in that way. And I think, yeah, 00:36:07.100 --> 00:36:13.580 we just need more of that. And what I heard often was, wow, like I've been so confused on this topic. 00:36:13.580 --> 00:36:20.140 I felt led to ministry and led to leadership, but I was just always so confused. I always just never 00:36:20.140 --> 00:36:24.540 understood, could I actually do it? And, you know, it really helped and encouraged them. And, 00:36:24.540 --> 00:36:29.420 you know, even some of them after that are now in like, you know, leading small groups and beginning 00:36:29.420 --> 00:36:34.300 to step into leadership positions. And so it just doesn't even have to be big, like, you know, 00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:40.380 start at least with something small, like a place for them to learn and to grow and to feel empowered. 00:36:40.380 --> 00:36:45.660 And it can grow from there and multiply from there. But yeah, I would, I would definitely agree that 00:36:45.660 --> 00:36:49.660 there needs to be more of that. Does that resonate, Anne? 00:36:51.260 --> 00:36:57.820 Absolutely. And I also think that, you know, it's important, like I was sharing with my own story, 00:36:57.820 --> 00:37:04.460 that you have some men that are willing to lift you up, that are willing to let you go. But then as a 00:37:04.460 --> 00:37:10.300 woman who is moving in those spaces, I need to be bringing other women along with me as well, 00:37:10.860 --> 00:37:17.740 and helping to draw that those gifts out of them and give them a place where they can discover their 00:37:17.740 --> 00:37:24.620 calling as well. And sometimes I think that as women, we can get very insecure about the places 00:37:24.620 --> 00:37:30.220 that we hold and the positions that we hold. And we think I've got to hold on to it. Because if I do 00:37:30.220 --> 00:37:37.340 anything, it may be taken from me. And instead, I think we need to have more of a posture of open 00:37:37.340 --> 00:37:44.460 hands and really trust that God is inviting us to bring other people along on the journey. That is 00:37:44.460 --> 00:37:51.180 that process of discipleship. And so as women, we need to be intentionally sewing into other women 00:37:51.180 --> 00:37:55.340 and bringing them along as well, when we do enter those spaces. 00:37:55.980 --> 00:37:59.580 Yeah. Nicole, I've heard you talk about some of that before. 00:37:59.580 --> 00:38:02.460 Yes, I got the rock on. I'm like, yes, yes. 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:03.660 Go ahead. Share with me. 00:38:04.300 --> 00:38:11.420 Even, you know, at this stage of maturation, yes. You know, I have a woman in front of me 00:38:11.420 --> 00:38:16.460 who I'm helping push forward. I have one behind me that I'm paving the way and two to walk alongside 00:38:16.460 --> 00:38:24.060 me, my Aaron and my her. And I teach that to kids too, because that's important. Like there is something 00:38:24.060 --> 00:38:32.780 to be said about how all the apostles had this impartation moment. And if we're not doing that, 00:38:32.780 --> 00:38:40.140 then we know it doesn't die. But there's a reason why you're accumulating this wisdom and this 00:38:40.140 --> 00:38:46.940 understanding. This is a reason why you have this mantle and it is built for relationship. 00:38:46.940 --> 00:38:52.380 You know, like it is God's gift to us that we would give it. The overflow is meant to be given. 00:38:52.380 --> 00:38:57.740 You can't give if you're empty. So definitely be full, but you should be doing that. Like that, 00:38:57.740 --> 00:39:03.020 that never stops. And I challenge them to do it at all ages and all stages of maturation. Like you 00:39:03.020 --> 00:39:08.540 should have that, you know, because that's how you achieve spiritual growth. That's how we have 00:39:08.540 --> 00:39:14.380 these people. We can say, was that just me or did I, I missed that? You know, was there a different 00:39:14.380 --> 00:39:18.860 revelation that time when I said that than before, you know, there's people that can say that and check 00:39:18.860 --> 00:39:23.500 that. And then there's that, that growth that happens for them. And then you get that exponential 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:28.300 growth, you know, in discipleship, which I love like what Ann was talking about, because you 00:39:29.580 --> 00:39:37.980 were never meant to do this alone. It may have been a conversation between you and God, 00:39:37.980 --> 00:39:41.900 but once it's downloaded, it becomes a conference. 00:39:44.140 --> 00:39:49.500 Interesting. I'm going, I'm going to do something. And, and to be honest, I didn't, 00:39:50.940 --> 00:39:55.980 when thinking through this interview, this thought didn't really even occur to me until literally in 00:39:55.980 --> 00:40:02.700 this conversation. And so this may be perceived as, as rude. This may be perceived as, that's not a good 00:40:02.700 --> 00:40:09.740 thing. Don't you love when people like precede the comments, um, by, by saying stuff like this, 00:40:09.740 --> 00:40:14.780 like here with the stream, especially with the live, because if this tanks, we will totally edit 00:40:14.780 --> 00:40:20.300 this out and this will not make on demand. And so if you're watching this live, you get the unfiltered 00:40:20.300 --> 00:40:26.540 version, know that in advance, but through the church digital and, and I'm, I'm, I'm very vocal 00:40:26.540 --> 00:40:31.020 on my own story. And this is where it's danger because I'm paralleling my story to you all. And 00:40:31.020 --> 00:40:37.900 I don't mean that in any way, that is not what I'm trying to do for 25 years. I banged my head against 00:40:37.900 --> 00:40:45.020 the wall because, um, I was trying to help physical churches understand the power of digital and, and 00:40:45.020 --> 00:40:51.100 like even freaking through COVID they couldn't figure it out. And, and, and so we pivoted, 00:40:51.100 --> 00:40:57.500 we walked away from the church mindset and instead started adopting this idea of the digital missionary, 00:40:57.500 --> 00:41:01.980 which is now the digital missionary conference and everything else. And, and, and moving away from 00:41:01.980 --> 00:41:07.180 the church and, you know, moving from, uh, it's interesting. I told a donor last night, I was like, 00:41:07.180 --> 00:41:11.500 yeah, we, it was like, we were doing B2B business to business, working straight with churches. 00:41:12.140 --> 00:41:17.580 But by going to digital missionary, we pivoted and we went to a B2C, a business to consumer 00:41:18.140 --> 00:41:22.140 model where now we're working straight with individuals instead of trying to go through 00:41:22.140 --> 00:41:29.580 churches. And it's been, it's been like a clean, clear sailing, I, blue skies, you know, blue ocean, 00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:36.140 whatever the analogy is that says it's been a sprint and it's been a joy. Like it's been that way. 00:41:36.140 --> 00:41:42.300 And so I'm thinking about this, bear with me. And, and I started thinking back of historically, 00:41:43.020 --> 00:41:51.260 actually, you know, my mother was very active growing up in, uh, uh, uh, WMU women's missionary, 00:41:51.740 --> 00:41:58.780 something, whatever, I don't know, but like for her, she spent a lot of time talking about missionaries. 00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:04.220 Uh, and so I went on Google and I Googled Christian women missionaries to pull up some of these names. 00:42:04.220 --> 00:42:11.260 Um, you know, Elizabeth Elliot, of course, in the 1900s, and she died in the 2000s, uh, books about 00:42:11.260 --> 00:42:17.420 her. Lottie Moon as a Southern Baptist. Like, I mean, this woman in the 1800s and early 1900s was 00:42:17.420 --> 00:42:27.500 defining missionary work. Is there opportunities missionally with more towards this? Is that moving 00:42:27.500 --> 00:42:36.860 away from a male dominated, um, church environment? Is, is it a good thing to, to lean away and work 00:42:36.860 --> 00:42:43.900 straight with the individuals? Is that a, is that a bad thing? I'm, I'm just looking at maybe missional 00:42:43.900 --> 00:42:51.100 is, is easier, but that may not make it better. And so what's your take on that? I'm open to whoever 00:42:51.100 --> 00:42:57.340 would go first on this, but would being more of a, of a missionary instead of a church. 00:42:58.140 --> 00:43:05.180 Is that, is that the right play for, for women in 2025? 00:43:05.180 --> 00:43:13.420 I think that it is traditionally more accepted because women are helpers. They're servers, 00:43:13.420 --> 00:43:23.340 they're servants. They are coming alongside and helping. Um, and, and really we often fail to see 00:43:23.340 --> 00:43:31.020 the intersection between a missionary and a pastor. Um, I don't see that those two things are that 00:43:31.020 --> 00:43:37.340 different. Um, because a pastor should also be someone that serves, that loves, that shows 00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:44.220 compassion, that works with groups of people, like all of that. But for some reason, there is a stigma 00:43:45.020 --> 00:43:51.340 where the word pastor is used in conjunction with women. So yes, I think that there are not very 00:43:51.340 --> 00:43:55.900 many people that would say women should not be missionaries. Absolutely. They should be missionaries, 00:43:55.900 --> 00:44:06.300 but they can't be a pastor. And so I think that, um, if we, if we stop getting hung up on terminology 00:44:06.940 --> 00:44:13.580 and become more concerned with where God is moving women individually in their lives, 00:44:14.220 --> 00:44:19.260 I think it's important for us to follow the calling wherever it leads. You could call me a missionary. 00:44:19.260 --> 00:44:26.140 You could call me a pastor. You could call me a nonprofit leader. I don't care what you call me. 00:44:26.140 --> 00:44:33.820 I just know that I am called to take the gospel to people and to reignite a passion for discipleship. 00:44:33.820 --> 00:44:39.900 And I think we so, we get so interested in labeling people and categorizing people 00:44:40.460 --> 00:44:48.300 to appease the different boxes that we put people in, um, that we end up limiting. Like in my case, 00:44:48.300 --> 00:44:54.860 we end up limiting what people, what we say people can do. I was raised in a missionary household. So we 00:44:54.860 --> 00:44:59.980 lived in Nigeria when I was young, I knew that I could become a missionary. If I wanted to become a 00:44:59.980 --> 00:45:06.940 missionary, I couldn't be a pastor, but I could be a missionary. And those two things are very much in 00:45:06.940 --> 00:45:12.860 my mind, very similar. Um, pastors should be missionaries. Missionaries should be pastoral. 00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:20.780 Um, but, but we just put those specific labels and then categorize people where it makes us comfortable. 00:45:20.780 --> 00:45:26.940 Yeah. Um, Amanda, as you're, as you're hearing that, what are you thinking on maybe some of these labels? 00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:33.820 Yeah. I mean, I think, I think labels, I think Anne really just nailed it, honestly. I think labels 00:45:33.820 --> 00:45:39.500 really are the issue, you know, it's, it's so strange. Like women can be called directors, 00:45:39.500 --> 00:45:45.420 but not pastors, but they're doing the same exact thing. What changes is the title. Um, and so, 00:45:46.300 --> 00:45:53.340 yeah, I, I resonate with all of what Anne said and I, and I just want to echo that. I, I, 00:45:53.340 --> 00:45:59.740 I really think the, the title is really the issue. I don't think it should be one or the other. Um, 00:45:59.740 --> 00:46:04.140 you know, at the end of the day, I think people are going to have an issue with titles, just period, 00:46:04.140 --> 00:46:09.020 whether it would, no matter what they believe, what the, what their thoughts are, whatever. Um, 00:46:09.020 --> 00:46:14.620 I think you just have to stay true to what God is calling you to do and be confident in that and 00:46:14.620 --> 00:46:21.100 just move forward with whatever that is, whether it is a pastor or a missionary, you know? Um, and so, 00:46:21.100 --> 00:46:28.380 yeah. You know, I could see where the U S um, the U S church, the North American church, um, 00:46:29.180 --> 00:46:36.620 may have, uh, you know, has pivoted more towards a male dominated version of leadership as with the, 00:46:36.620 --> 00:46:44.060 the title of pastor. And, um, um, I'm, I'm, I'm loosely saying the word corrupted. I don't mean, 00:46:44.620 --> 00:46:50.860 but I think the, I don't mean that graphically, but, but I think the, the, the idea shifted away 00:46:50.860 --> 00:46:57.740 from more of the pastor being more of a, of a high capacity leader, as opposed to a shepherd. Um, 00:46:57.740 --> 00:47:03.180 even, even, even a teacher, like they actually, I remember, um, you know, I tell this story 00:47:03.180 --> 00:47:08.220 occasionally I was on, I was on a church staff, uh, and we were like, you know, maybe 30 pastors. 00:47:08.860 --> 00:47:13.980 And, um, it was a large church in every pastor that was on staff with this church. If they had 00:47:13.980 --> 00:47:20.620 taken the a pest, uh, they would have been like an 80 to 90% apostolic. And so it was like a very 00:47:20.620 --> 00:47:27.500 driven, very type a, uh, very extreme staff environment. And, and it was funny. Like I was 00:47:27.500 --> 00:47:31.820 actually probably the most shepherd teacher, uh, on staff among everybody else, because it was, 00:47:31.820 --> 00:47:36.060 it was all strong apostolics, which was almost a joke. Cause if you know me, like there ain't no 00:47:36.060 --> 00:47:42.380 shepherd in, in, in me and that. And so, um, I, and working in that strong environment, you really, 00:47:42.380 --> 00:47:48.460 it's, you, you're starting to miss like the other, other parts of a pest and, and working in that, 00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:53.340 in that male dominated, you're really missing some of, some of the complimentary parts of how a women 00:47:53.340 --> 00:47:59.420 can, can, can help to, to complete the process. So ukulele says here, let me draw attention to this. 00:47:59.900 --> 00:48:05.900 Um, we have, uh, we have to be going and doing what God's calls us to do. We can adjust the label, 00:48:05.900 --> 00:48:12.540 but be careful not to adjust the mission, uh, to be more palatable, uh, to humans, you know? And so 00:48:12.540 --> 00:48:17.340 it's not, I think that's a good call. You're not, we don't want to lose sight of the mission of what 00:48:17.340 --> 00:48:23.900 we're called to. Um, and let me ask you as, as we're as, cause you're, you're reaching globally, 00:48:23.900 --> 00:48:27.980 you know, I'm, I'm guessing Amanda's reaching globally as well, but oftentimes people 00:48:28.700 --> 00:48:32.540 hide behind the usernames and it's, it's harder to really figure out who's who, 00:48:32.540 --> 00:48:37.820 but, and like, you know, who you're reaching, you, you're building relationships with predominantly 00:48:37.820 --> 00:48:45.500 a lot of people in Africa and other nations. Do other nations globally, do they struggle with 00:48:45.500 --> 00:48:52.780 women pastor, with women leader as strongly as you see in North America? Is it, is it globally 00:48:52.780 --> 00:48:57.180 as much of an issue as maybe you're, you're feeling here, uh, domestically? 00:48:58.460 --> 00:49:06.220 The answer is no, they do not. And that is one of the things that brings me great joy and satisfaction 00:49:07.580 --> 00:49:14.700 with the ministry, um, with which I get to work. I, I hardly hear any of those comments. I hardly get 00:49:14.700 --> 00:49:22.940 any of those comments from people that are engaging globally. Um, many of my people are from Africa, 00:49:22.940 --> 00:49:32.620 from Pakistan, um, different places, and they just, it's not an issue. Um, it's, you are, you are called 00:49:32.620 --> 00:49:38.380 and you are equipped and you are prepared and gifted to teach the word of God. And I am going to learn. 00:49:38.380 --> 00:49:47.420 And there's an attitude that I think is often missing here in the US, um, that they realize that they can 00:49:47.420 --> 00:49:55.260 learn anytime, anywhere from anyone. And there is a, there's a humility there. And one of the things that 00:49:55.260 --> 00:50:01.340 I have loved is to be able to see, remember I said that some of them will comment in the comments before I 00:50:01.340 --> 00:50:07.660 even get there. Um, and, and it's usually my international people that are commenting and that 00:50:07.660 --> 00:50:15.740 are, that are correcting the mistruth and the, and just the hurtful statements that are made, um, on my 00:50:15.740 --> 00:50:27.420 behalf. And so I would say definitely in my experience, um, it is a United States Western centered, um, uh, 00:50:27.420 --> 00:50:33.820 mindset that, that I do not see in much of the global parts that I engage with. 00:50:35.580 --> 00:50:40.300 Amanda, have you had an experience globally, uh, that, that would, would you just, would you agree 00:50:40.300 --> 00:50:44.620 with what Ann said there? Like, what is your experience been globally on Twitch and Discord? 00:50:44.620 --> 00:50:50.620 Yeah. Majority of the people we do reach are in the United States, but we do reach people 00:50:50.620 --> 00:50:58.700 all over the world, Australia, uh, United Kingdom, you know, Europe and whatnot. Um, and to my knowledge, 00:50:58.700 --> 00:51:03.980 you know, all the people who are outside of the U S they don't seem to mind. If anything, actually, 00:51:03.980 --> 00:51:09.180 I know one of the Australian, uh, women that I know in our church, you know, she's always 00:51:09.820 --> 00:51:16.060 like hungry for more women representation in, in ministry leadership. And, you know, 00:51:16.060 --> 00:51:21.580 she always tells me you should preach more, you know, cause she's just, she's hungry to see more 00:51:21.580 --> 00:51:30.380 women in that kind of role and position leading in such a way spiritually. Um, so yeah, I would have to 00:51:30.380 --> 00:51:38.300 agree, um, with that for sure. No, I love that. That was, I didn't know that for a fact, but that, 00:51:38.300 --> 00:51:45.660 that doesn't surprise me that that global is, is, is more supportive of that. Um, and it's, I forget, 00:51:46.060 --> 00:51:54.300 um, and I, I, I remember sending this to you. I, I think, I think it was, um, Rick Warren, 00:51:54.300 --> 00:52:01.260 Rick Warren was doing some research, uh, and he did a YouTube video on Lazan. Um, and he was talking 00:52:01.260 --> 00:52:12.620 about, um, global movements and he'd done research or his research team did research on, um, why 00:52:12.620 --> 00:52:21.420 global movements fail. And what he had found is that the majority of global movements that had failed 00:52:21.420 --> 00:52:29.100 over the past X number of years, a couple centuries, uh, were dominated by male centric, 00:52:29.100 --> 00:52:35.660 white male centric leadership was, I think the stat that he came up with and that it was, was working in 00:52:36.300 --> 00:52:44.140 international, uh, contextualization and working in women into leadership. Uh, both of those things 00:52:44.140 --> 00:52:52.300 contributed to, uh, a more of a, a global impact or, or extending impact beyond, um, to create, get to 00:52:52.300 --> 00:52:57.740 a movement level. And, and so like, I was funny, I remember forwarding that actually it was, I forwarded 00:52:57.740 --> 00:53:04.860 that, uh, uh, uh, Angela Craig first and then sent it, uh, uh, and Angela was, was, uh, one of the pioneers 00:53:04.860 --> 00:53:10.700 in the space to doing digital church for a decade or so before she shifted over to education. Uh, 00:53:10.700 --> 00:53:18.300 what was her church? Her church was, um, oh man, shoot. Uh, I am pursue church life. That was, 00:53:18.300 --> 00:53:25.740 it was her church on Facebook for years. Um, so, I mean, let me ask, uh, well, and that's why the reason I 00:53:25.740 --> 00:53:30.700 said, oh, that's one of the reasons why I'm not patting myself on the back, but the church digital, 00:53:30.700 --> 00:53:36.940 uh, Barbara Carnero, to be honest, Barbara Carnero tells me I'm wrong on a regular basis and she's 00:53:36.940 --> 00:53:43.580 never wrong when she corrects me. And so like, I do not mind that. And, uh, Stacy's on, on our senior 00:53:43.580 --> 00:53:53.500 leadership as well with, um, uh, uh, as our, as our chaplain and we are, uh, I am always looking for 00:53:53.500 --> 00:53:59.500 people who don't look like me and think like me on leadership. Well, let me ask this question. How, 00:54:01.420 --> 00:54:06.860 I mean, I, I'm going to ask two questions back to back first. How do we solve this at the big level? 00:54:07.820 --> 00:54:12.540 Do we solve this at the big level? And then maybe a follow-up question would be, 00:54:12.540 --> 00:54:17.900 how do we solve this? Like individual, what's, what's one or two steps we can do today 00:54:18.460 --> 00:54:23.100 to start to move in that direction. And so, um, and you want to kick us off? 00:54:24.780 --> 00:54:33.020 Yeah, I would just say individually, I think all of us need to develop a sense of humility and curiosity, 00:54:33.580 --> 00:54:40.140 that those are two things that I find often, unfortunately are lacking within the church 00:54:40.140 --> 00:54:47.900 structure. Um, and especially, you know, when you get onto a digital space, um, people feel very 00:54:47.900 --> 00:54:55.420 empowered, um, to just say what they know and to be very certain about it and put their, put their 00:54:55.420 --> 00:55:01.820 comment on there and then leave or whatever. Um, and what I would encourage people to do 00:55:01.820 --> 00:55:06.140 is to develop a sense of humility to say, I can learn something from anybody. 00:55:06.860 --> 00:55:12.540 So let me hear what this person has to say. Um, even if it makes me uncomfortable, 00:55:13.180 --> 00:55:18.860 even if it's from a different perspective, you know, so many times we want to get in an echo chamber 00:55:18.860 --> 00:55:24.700 with people that think the same way that we think and approach life the same way that we approach it 00:55:24.700 --> 00:55:30.460 so that we can hear things that confirm our own biases and our own thoughts. Um, but when you hear 00:55:30.460 --> 00:55:36.220 a woman speaking, when you hear somebody of color speaking, when you hear somebody that's in a 00:55:36.220 --> 00:55:41.820 different station of life with different experiences speaking, you're going to be able to hear things 00:55:41.820 --> 00:55:48.380 that may make you uncomfortable for a while and challenge your thinking, but with some humility 00:55:48.380 --> 00:55:56.220 and with some curiosity, um, I think that we are going to allow more and different voices to speak 00:55:56.220 --> 00:56:03.260 to us in a way that we will really receive it. So I think that that is, you know, humility and curiosity 00:56:03.260 --> 00:56:10.460 on an individual level. Um, but I also think that what would that look like on a systems level with an 00:56:10.460 --> 00:56:16.540 on an organizational level, that those are things that we prioritize within our churches, within our 00:56:16.540 --> 00:56:22.780 ministries, within our constructs, within our algorithms, um, even that we would hear things 00:56:22.780 --> 00:56:30.460 that we don't always agree with. Um, but we have this sense of curiosity to say, God, what might you be 00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:37.580 teaching me through these people that may not be exactly like me? Yeah, it takes humility to, to 00:56:38.300 --> 00:56:45.580 not know the answer. It takes humility to be open-handed like that. Um, and so I, I can see where a lot of 00:56:46.620 --> 00:56:51.980 pastors, uh, a lot of men might have problems with that. I mean, that, that's been something, 00:56:51.980 --> 00:56:57.340 to be honest, that's been, I've learned that the hard way. Let's just say it that way. That would be my 00:56:57.340 --> 00:57:03.180 story. So I, I agree with you there on that. And, um, uh, Amanda, as, as we're hearing this, like, 00:57:03.180 --> 00:57:09.180 what's, um, uh, the big picture long-term, how, how do we, how do we put a dent in this? 00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:16.300 Yeah, definitely echo the humility. I think that's like the number one reason, you know, 00:57:16.300 --> 00:57:22.700 that people who are, you know, just against women, you know, they, they lack the ability to have a 00:57:22.700 --> 00:57:28.860 conversation to hear the other side. Um, and so I think it starts with humility, but then I think 00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:37.260 like being intentional to create opportunities for women, um, to be celebrated, empowered, um, 00:57:37.260 --> 00:57:46.060 encouraged, uh, trained up, um, you know, not just like, you know, adding on a woman to like, you know, 00:57:46.060 --> 00:57:53.020 uh, uh, a list of conference speakers just to have like your, your woman, you know, resented, like, 00:57:53.020 --> 00:57:58.620 you know, like the token female. Yes. Yes. The token female, you know, don't do that. Um, 00:57:58.620 --> 00:58:03.900 because while, you know, sure to a degree, we appreciate the thought, um, it's not necessarily 00:58:03.900 --> 00:58:11.500 helpful when you do that. Um, you know, but like, you know, seek out women who are truly doing an 00:58:11.500 --> 00:58:17.500 incredible job in these spaces, celebrate them, invite them to more opportunities so that they can 00:58:17.500 --> 00:58:25.100 be seen by other people, men and women included. And I think by, by inviting more women into the space, 00:58:25.100 --> 00:58:33.820 you know, um, like these, these, um, podcasts are great, you know, but what I would love to see is 00:58:33.820 --> 00:58:39.340 women on pad podcasts that aren't about women in ministry, you know, like what, what are you doing 00:58:39.340 --> 00:58:45.180 as a woman in this space? Like, why, like, why, like, like, what do you like, what are you up to? 00:58:45.180 --> 00:58:51.100 Like, you know, what is God doing in and through your ministry, you know, um, to see more of that 00:58:51.100 --> 00:58:55.500 so that it's not just like, yes, woman can do it, but like, what actually are you doing? 00:58:55.500 --> 00:58:59.500 You know, why can women do it? Let's see, let's see the proof in the pudding. Like, let's see 00:59:00.060 --> 00:59:06.060 what God is doing in and through what he has called you to. Um, and so I would love to see that, 00:59:06.060 --> 00:59:10.940 you know, of course, women supporting women, but I also think it is so incredibly important for men 00:59:10.940 --> 00:59:15.660 to be supporting women in these roles as well, because we can, women have each other's backs, 00:59:16.220 --> 00:59:21.980 you know, but I feel like we'll constantly be fighting against the grain. If men are also being 00:59:21.980 --> 00:59:27.500 intentional to invite us into those same leadership spaces, especially if it's so male dominated, 00:59:28.140 --> 00:59:32.940 um, they have to make room for us because I don't know about you, like, I'm not interested in finding 00:59:32.940 --> 00:59:40.300 my way in. Um, I'm not that type of person. I'm not trying to like insert myself, um, when I'm not 00:59:40.300 --> 00:59:47.660 wanted. Um, you know, so I think men creating that space for women to, you know, be celebrated, 00:59:47.660 --> 00:59:53.100 encouraged, trained up, you know, to have that opportunity is, is so important. So. 00:59:53.100 --> 00:59:58.860 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'll, I'll give testimony to this. Um, you know, the church digital, 00:59:58.860 --> 01:00:03.980 some of the shorts that we produce, uh, the, the short, and Stacy's one of our regular producers, 01:00:03.980 --> 01:00:10.140 the shorts that she produces, uh, typically rank in our top. Uh, like when, when she does it, 01:00:10.140 --> 01:00:15.420 that they, they perform, uh, very well, which is interesting because, you know, my subscribers are 01:00:16.060 --> 01:00:21.980 97% male. Uh, but they're, they're resonating with, with, uh, some of the ideologies of what 01:00:21.980 --> 01:00:27.260 she's talking about. I'd say the same thing. And we've done some, some clips, uh, with you historically, 01:00:27.260 --> 01:00:32.700 uh, through podcasts and other things that we've done. And, and, and, and does that does well with 01:00:32.700 --> 01:00:38.700 that. Um, I would, you know, I've, I've often said, you know, um, I, I don't know that I'm the, 01:00:38.700 --> 01:00:43.420 the future of the church digital, a white bald man with a beard. I don't think is really going to be, 01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:50.460 uh, the leader of an organization, a global movement organization. I, I just, I think it's somebody 01:00:50.460 --> 01:00:55.660 else is going to, going to pick the reins up and run with this. Uh, but as, as much as we can, 01:00:56.300 --> 01:01:02.540 can empower, uh, as, as much as we can enable women, as much as we can enable different cultures, 01:01:03.100 --> 01:01:09.340 um, and, and empower them to do ministry, encourage them to like, that's, I, I, I, I try at a personal 01:01:09.340 --> 01:01:14.460 level. I try to get my platform up on a regular basis. And, and, uh, you know, Nicole has, has 01:01:14.460 --> 01:01:19.580 benefited from that and historically, I hope would say she's benefited from that. Actually, that was, 01:01:19.580 --> 01:01:24.700 it was interesting. I was talking about Angela Craig earlier. Um, you know, Angela, I hope it's okay 01:01:24.700 --> 01:01:30.300 that I tell the story, but, um, I, I sent her, I sent her that, that story I was talking about Rick 01:01:30.300 --> 01:01:37.900 Warren. And, um, I, I said to her, you know, thank you for, for pioneering in this space and doing this 01:01:37.900 --> 01:01:44.700 work to help create a movement. And, um, and she replied, and she replied back, uh, and I apologize, 01:01:44.700 --> 01:01:49.420 or, um, Angela, I apologize if I shouldn't have said this, but she said something to the extent 01:01:49.420 --> 01:01:56.540 of thank you for giving me the year platform and the opportunity to be heard by, um, an audience that, 01:01:56.540 --> 01:02:04.460 that doesn't listen. Um, and that's, that's been a sad reality for me is like, there are, 01:02:05.100 --> 01:02:12.220 there are pastor friends in, in my ecosystem that are like, why, why are you highlighting women 01:02:12.220 --> 01:02:18.460 pastors? That's not biblical. Like I've gotten, I've gotten hate email off, off some of this stuff. 01:02:18.460 --> 01:02:22.940 It's interesting. This I've had a lot of engagement in this conversation and Chad actually has been 01:02:22.940 --> 01:02:28.700 really positive, but I was half expecting some negative to come around because that does happen 01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:34.780 on occasion, you know, even, even in our ecosystems. And so, um, you know, I want to thank you all 01:02:35.420 --> 01:02:41.020 for, for being, being the pioneers for leading into this space. Um, you know, we, we say here at the 01:02:41.020 --> 01:02:48.060 church digital pioneers, get shot settlers, get rich. And so you guys are, are, are paving the way for some 01:02:48.060 --> 01:02:54.940 other missionaries and some other planters and other women to benefit from this, uh, in the future. 01:02:54.940 --> 01:03:03.580 But, but let me ask this question today in 2025, it's March, right? It is March, right? March 15th, 01:03:03.580 --> 01:03:07.740 17th, somewhere around there. Okay. We're good. Uh, I know what month we're in. It's, it's a step in 01:03:07.740 --> 01:03:15.500 the right direction by 2026 in the next nine months, eight months. Um, we want to move the bucket 01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:21.260 forward. We want to take a step in the right direction. What, what, what do, what do we need to 01:03:21.260 --> 01:03:29.820 do? How, how do we, um, elevate this? So it's not a problem. What can we do in the next year, uh, to, 01:03:29.820 --> 01:03:35.500 to help bring about a solution or a step in the solution in the right space? What do y'all think? 01:03:38.060 --> 01:03:47.020 I would love to see each ministry leader, male or female, um, find someone and appreciate 01:03:47.020 --> 01:03:54.780 the greatness and the God-given talent within them and then replace themselves. You know, I hope that 01:03:54.780 --> 01:04:02.700 I will in the next year and a half, um, continue finding other women, um, continue finding people 01:04:02.700 --> 01:04:08.460 who are called into different areas of ministry. And Jeff, just like you were saying, um, giving up 01:04:08.460 --> 01:04:15.580 the platform and allowing them to be able to use their gifts and talents, um, in a way that they may 01:04:15.580 --> 01:04:21.500 not have even thought possible or nobody ever gave them that opportunity. And so whether it's, 01:04:22.140 --> 01:04:28.300 um, whether it's a digital platform, whether it's a pulpit, whether it's a Sunday school class, 01:04:28.300 --> 01:04:35.420 whether it's a, you know, a small group, whatever that is, um, find a woman, uh, appreciate the 01:04:35.420 --> 01:04:40.780 greatness and the gifts within her, and then give up a little bit of your power so that she can step 01:04:40.780 --> 01:04:47.980 into the greatness that God created her for. Wow. Well said. Apprenticing, you know, 01:04:49.580 --> 01:04:56.780 multiplying yourselves into others, men and women. Um, beautiful. Uh, Amanda, you wanna go next? 01:04:58.060 --> 01:05:04.140 Simple steps. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I mean, echo, echo that. Um, you know, I think I should never let 01:05:04.140 --> 01:05:11.500 Ann go first because like, she's so eloquent. It's like, okay, what she said. Yeah. But for real, 01:05:11.500 --> 01:05:18.140 what she said. Um, but yeah, just to back that up, like even just in, in the circles that I'm in, 01:05:18.140 --> 01:05:25.020 you know, um, I see people coming together and, you know, they're creating like leadership teams and, 01:05:25.020 --> 01:05:30.620 you know, there's conferences and there's podcasts and, you know, um, all I keep thinking is there's 01:05:30.620 --> 01:05:38.460 so many capable women that I just don't see being invited or even considered for any of this, you know, 01:05:38.460 --> 01:05:45.420 um, and that just, uh, it just makes me sad, um, you know, to see that. And I don't think it's 01:05:45.420 --> 01:05:51.500 necessarily intentional. I just think that, you know, it's just, it's just become so natural. Um, 01:05:52.220 --> 01:05:57.900 and just, uh, what happens? I don't even, it's, it's just so, yeah. Like, I don't even know how to 01:05:57.900 --> 01:06:05.260 explain why, you know, but yeah, just seeing that makes me really sad. And just, I, I would love to 01:06:05.260 --> 01:06:11.820 see more women being invited into these teams, into these roles, like into these spaces again, like, 01:06:11.820 --> 01:06:17.820 you know, echoing what Ann said, you know, just like celebrating them in the God's gifts that, 01:06:17.820 --> 01:06:22.700 you know, he has given them and their greatness and sharing some of that power, that, you know, 01:06:23.260 --> 01:06:29.980 ability, that leadership, that opportunity with just, you know, men and women, I think is just important. 01:06:30.620 --> 01:06:36.540 Um, if we want to see any of this change. Yeah. That's good. Uh, Nicole. 01:06:37.820 --> 01:06:42.540 I, you know, I was listening and I was like, okay, what do you say? Cause yeah, I feel like echo, 01:06:42.540 --> 01:06:48.220 echo definitely. And like, that was every item I had rolled in my head for this moment. Um, 01:06:48.780 --> 01:06:56.380 but what I would like to see is I've often been told that I had to become the mentor that I was seeking, 01:06:56.380 --> 01:07:03.980 because there wasn't one available. Um, so what I would like to see is more opportunities for 01:07:03.980 --> 01:07:10.140 ministers in general. Uh, I can have a him and a her, her, her, her, her, her, him, him. It, to me, 01:07:10.140 --> 01:07:15.420 it's, it's, it's who God sends to me and I can't control that. And if I'm trying to control that, 01:07:15.420 --> 01:07:22.380 then it's not who God is sending because I'm never in control. And so to, to have the ability 01:07:23.180 --> 01:07:31.820 to feed into a pool of people, whether it's like she said, apprenticeships, internships, 01:07:31.820 --> 01:07:38.620 come alongside ministry, just spotlighting you in my ministry. Not that you have to be doing what 01:07:38.620 --> 01:07:43.020 I'm doing, but the fact that you're doing it to highlight that in my ministry, 01:07:44.540 --> 01:07:50.860 it's going to take many parts. And we know that because the body is made up of many members 01:07:51.500 --> 01:07:56.700 and we were to come together. So that meant that at some point I'm going to be with somebody who may 01:07:56.700 --> 01:08:03.500 be IRL, who may be fidgetal, and there's something that they're doing. That's going to help me propel 01:08:03.500 --> 01:08:08.140 them and me. And that's why we're supposed to connect. There's a click that happens. 01:08:08.140 --> 01:08:17.420 So I would love to see opportunities to create a global knowledge bank of people that we could say, 01:08:17.420 --> 01:08:23.180 Hey, we're getting ready to do this. Put your applications in for digital, just like they do 01:08:23.180 --> 01:08:27.900 for in-person, you know, here's everything that we can teach on. What do you want to teach? 01:08:27.900 --> 01:08:37.020 Yeah, I love that. And I mean, I'd love to say if you're a woman, if you're in this digital 01:08:37.580 --> 01:08:42.940 ministry space, and you're looking for that ecosystem, you're looking for that friendly 01:08:42.940 --> 01:08:50.380 environment, you got it here. Come hang out with us over at the Church Digital and, you know, 01:08:50.380 --> 01:09:02.860 let's get something going. I'm half tempted to tell Nicole to abandon Gen A and Gen Z and help me start 01:09:02.860 --> 01:09:11.100 the Church Digital Women's Ministry. I have no idea what I'm talking about. But, you know, I mean, 01:09:11.100 --> 01:09:18.220 there's two sides of the coin where, yeah, Gen A, Gen Z needs to figure this out. But the Church Digital, 01:09:18.860 --> 01:09:22.060 you know, and I wasn't planning to call. I wasn't planning on saying that. That's 01:09:22.060 --> 01:09:33.260 literally in this moment is there needs to be a stronger voice. And listen, it doesn't need to be me. 01:09:34.460 --> 01:09:41.500 I mean, this is truly a space where we need to start to platform others in the space to represent 01:09:41.500 --> 01:09:52.220 well. And, you know, it needs to be a woman to encourage and to empower women in this space. 01:09:52.220 --> 01:09:56.940 And so if you're looking for that encouragement, come hang out with us. Nicole, we're going to have 01:09:56.940 --> 01:09:59.420 to offline this conversation. Absolutely. 01:09:59.420 --> 01:10:03.580 It's usually our conversations are fun. We'll have to see what comes along the way. 01:10:03.580 --> 01:10:08.380 Our conversations are always great. And let me just add that my number one thing, my life verse, 01:10:08.380 --> 01:10:12.460 and it has never changed. The Lord has not given me another verse since he gave me this one, 01:10:12.460 --> 01:10:18.380 is for such a time as this. My person in the Bible is Esther. I believe that we're all created for 01:10:18.380 --> 01:10:23.900 something and there's a specific time that that's supposed to be accessed. So if this is that time 01:10:23.900 --> 01:10:29.900 and you feel like God is nudging you that you're, you know, like he's clearing the buffet table so that 01:10:29.900 --> 01:10:37.180 you can come with your dessert to the table, then this is what you need to do. Like, find your people 01:10:37.180 --> 01:10:43.900 or find people and just get in because they'll help you find your people. You know, the church. 01:10:43.900 --> 01:10:50.380 Find your people, find your family. I love that. I love that. Very, very good. Hey, as we're wrapping 01:10:50.380 --> 01:10:56.140 up here, uh, went a little long, but I thank you. Thank you, uh, for the extra time. Uh, but just 01:10:56.140 --> 01:11:03.900 any, any closing thoughts, uh, Amanda, you want to go first? Oh gosh. Um, I'm not prepared. 01:11:04.860 --> 01:11:12.300 Um, no, I, you know, just wanted any, any women listening. Um, God has, uh, created you with 01:11:12.300 --> 01:11:19.660 purpose. Um, he has a plan for your life. You have gifts and whatever those gifts are, he has, 01:11:20.220 --> 01:11:24.860 you know, already prepared, you know, my, one of my favorite verses is Ephesians 2 10, you know, 01:11:24.860 --> 01:11:29.820 for we are Christ, you know, for we are God's masterpiece created in him to do good works, 01:11:29.820 --> 01:11:37.260 which he prepared in advance for us to do. Like you, God has prepared you to do great, incredible 01:11:37.260 --> 01:11:45.180 works. Um, and whatever that may be, figure it out if you haven't already and, you know, find a way 01:11:45.180 --> 01:11:49.900 to step into that. You know, if you need to seek out, you know, mentors and other women to come 01:11:49.900 --> 01:11:55.180 alongside you, well, at just a period, you should have that in, in general, but you know, however you 01:11:55.180 --> 01:12:01.180 need to, to step into that, step into that, be confident that, you know, women can be in ministry. 01:12:01.180 --> 01:12:06.700 Women can be in leadership positions. Um, you know, I know there are a lot of voices out there, 01:12:06.700 --> 01:12:12.380 but the biggest voice that you need to listen to is God's and what he is calling you to do. 01:12:12.380 --> 01:12:18.060 That is what you need to listen to, um, and be obedient to not what other voices will try and 01:12:18.060 --> 01:12:23.900 tell you. So be encouraged with that. Well, I tell you what, if that's you talking unprepared, 01:12:23.900 --> 01:12:29.100 I'd hate to see your sermons when you actually have some time to prep. Uh, that, that was pretty 01:12:29.100 --> 01:12:34.460 good right there. Uh, Amanda, thank you for that. Um, yeah, Nicole, you want to go next? 01:12:34.460 --> 01:12:41.900 Yes. Yes. So I feel like Amanda spoke to your future. So I'm gonna speak to your present. 01:12:41.900 --> 01:12:48.620 If you're feeling the press, if you know that this calling is everywhere you go, you get on 01:12:48.620 --> 01:12:53.420 platforms and people are like, Hey, can you help me understand? I have questions about faith. I need to 01:12:53.420 --> 01:12:59.900 talk to you about this. God is calling me to do this. Then that is where you operate. We are all 01:12:59.900 --> 01:13:05.100 given a mission field and we're all given a person, a person of peace that we're to interact with. 01:13:05.820 --> 01:13:10.380 Step out on faith and start interacting because God says, all we have to do is open our mouth and he 01:13:10.380 --> 01:13:15.900 will speak. All you have to do is obey. And he will command you make a plan. He'll order the steps. 01:13:15.900 --> 01:13:22.060 Just take the first step. And I know that God is there with you. And we're all here. This video will be 01:13:22.060 --> 01:13:28.780 accessible and you can come back and get this knowledge. So just do it. Just do it. Like, 01:13:28.780 --> 01:13:30.620 hope Nike doesn't come from me, but just do it. 01:13:30.620 --> 01:13:31.500 Awesome. 01:13:31.500 --> 01:13:39.420 Awesome. And Nike, if you are interested, her email address is Nicole NIC. No, I'm kidding. 01:13:40.540 --> 01:13:47.260 Yeah. The church digital is not responsible for any of the opinions shared. No, I'm kidding. 01:13:47.260 --> 01:13:51.260 All right. And as we're wrapping up here, closing thoughts. 01:13:52.300 --> 01:13:56.860 So Amanda spoke to the future and Nicole spoke to the present. I'll speak to the past. 01:13:58.540 --> 01:14:05.900 Women, I want you to know that you are enough, that the voices that told you in your past that you are 01:14:05.900 --> 01:14:14.540 not enough. They didn't see who you are and you are enough. You are enough to do this work that God 01:14:14.540 --> 01:14:22.620 has called you to. You have enough to do everything that he is calling you toward. And, and you know, 01:14:22.620 --> 01:14:29.740 enough you, it's not that you missed out on an opportunity to learn and now you don't have an 01:14:29.740 --> 01:14:37.580 opportunity. Women, you are enough and you have enough and you know enough. And I just pray that 01:14:37.580 --> 01:14:44.460 you will rediscover the potential that is within you and, and you walk in that fully. 01:14:45.180 --> 01:14:51.100 Yes. Awesome. Wow. That was, that was powerful right there. Uh, you know, normally when I ask that 01:14:51.100 --> 01:14:56.300 question, people are like, no, I'm good, but y'all, y'all, y'all brought the hammer right, right there 01:14:56.300 --> 01:15:02.780 at the end. Um, and so I, I want you to know, uh, you know, ladies, I, I know your, your ministry well, 01:15:03.420 --> 01:15:08.940 uh, and, and I have the utmost respect for each of you and, and, and what you're doing. Uh, we've 01:15:08.940 --> 01:15:14.940 had pastor G and, uh, ukulele hanging out, excuse me, pastor D and ukulele hanging out with us in 01:15:14.940 --> 01:15:21.340 chat as well. And, uh, and, and you, you both as well. I know the ministry, I see the fruit of who 01:15:21.340 --> 01:15:27.500 you are digitally. And, uh, I want to thank all of you, uh, for the work that, that you are doing in, 01:15:27.500 --> 01:15:32.380 in, in your respective ministries. And so, um, as we're moving forward to church digital, 01:15:32.380 --> 01:15:41.340 I am, uh, I'm excited, uh, to, uh, to do more and to platform more ladies and to be able to, 01:15:41.340 --> 01:15:49.660 to allow, um, more of them to share. I would say, uh, that with us, you always have a place to be seen, 01:15:49.660 --> 01:15:56.780 uh, and, and to be recognized for that. And so if you're struggling, connect with us and let you get 01:15:56.780 --> 01:16:03.500 connected to, to some, some people that can help you, um, work through that, come alongside you. I'm 01:16:03.500 --> 01:16:08.460 told that's the right thing to say now, come alongside you and to work through that. I'm, 01:16:08.460 --> 01:16:13.260 I'm trying to work on my language a little bit, uh, on that. So I appreciate that. It's a kinder, 01:16:13.260 --> 01:16:19.740 gentler Jeff, uh, these days in 25. So, Hey, but we're, we're going to land the plane, uh, for, 01:16:19.740 --> 01:16:25.900 for, for Amanda, for, for Nicole. Um, this is, uh, this is Jeff. Oh, Anna forgot. Anna forgot all 01:16:25.900 --> 01:16:31.180 about Anna for Anna. This is Jeff, uh, with the church digital. Thanks for jumping on this podcast, 01:16:31.180 --> 01:16:35.420 uh, sign up for the conference and, uh, we'll see you next time on the show. Y'all have a good one.