WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.480 Hey, everybody, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:02.800 --> 00:00:05.560 My name is Jeff Reed, and I am glad that you are here. 00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:10.400 There's a lot of different options, a lot of different voices out there with church 00:00:10.400 --> 00:00:15.760 podcasts and technology podcasts, and I just counted it an honor that you took the time 00:00:15.760 --> 00:00:22.380 to download this, our first episode, diving into the Church Digital or the Church Online. 00:00:22.800 --> 00:00:28.680 So I'm joined today by guest host Ray D'Armas, who's the online pastor over at Christ Fellowship 00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:29.380 in Miami. 00:00:29.380 --> 00:00:34.340 Hey, Ray, man, let's just take a moment, introduce yourself, and just a little bit about what 00:00:34.340 --> 00:00:35.980 you do over there at Christ Fellowship. 00:00:36.240 --> 00:00:36.920 Hey, everyone. 00:00:37.400 --> 00:00:41.440 This is Ray D'Armas, and you're going to catch me a lot here on this podcast. 00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:43.380 We love Church Online. 00:00:43.560 --> 00:00:47.100 In fact, Jeff and I worked together here at Church Online here. 00:00:47.200 --> 00:00:50.740 Jeff was the pioneer a lot for our church and did a lot to help establish a lot of the systems 00:00:50.740 --> 00:00:52.360 that we still utilize to this day. 00:00:53.080 --> 00:00:58.300 And funny enough, Jeff, my story with Church Online actually dates back to when Lauren and 00:00:58.300 --> 00:01:00.680 I got married, married with two kids. 00:01:01.220 --> 00:01:03.620 And here's kind of where it all comes back to for me. 00:01:03.980 --> 00:01:09.720 So back in 2009, May of 2009, we're coming up on our 10-year anniversary now. 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:10.600 It's hard to believe that. 00:01:10.720 --> 00:01:17.620 But back in May of 2009, my wife had family in Brazil, and she had family in Kansas City 00:01:17.620 --> 00:01:19.900 that couldn't make it over to Miami where we were getting married. 00:01:20.460 --> 00:01:24.440 And so she was wrecked in tears because a lot of this happened like two days before we were 00:01:24.440 --> 00:01:24.840 getting married. 00:01:24.880 --> 00:01:26.540 And she was freaking out. 00:01:26.580 --> 00:01:28.240 And man, my grandmother is going to miss it. 00:01:28.300 --> 00:01:29.820 My aunts and uncles are going to miss it. 00:01:29.900 --> 00:01:31.680 And this is just kind of horrid for me. 00:01:32.160 --> 00:01:38.720 And so me wanting to have a big win for my upcoming bride said, I think I have a solution. 00:01:39.000 --> 00:01:43.340 At the time, I was a specialist at the Apple store, and I'd seen technology just kind of coming 00:01:43.340 --> 00:01:46.300 together, and I said, we can make something happen for this. 00:01:46.440 --> 00:01:48.120 And so I got out my trusty MacBook. 00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:50.760 The church where we were getting married in had Wi-Fi. 00:01:51.320 --> 00:01:54.680 And so I got my camcorder, and I connected it to my MacBook. 00:01:55.180 --> 00:02:00.720 And I kind of duct taped and wired my way to broadcasting our wedding onto the internet, 00:02:00.900 --> 00:02:05.320 posted it on our wedding page, and sent it to all of them so that they could see us get married. 00:02:05.900 --> 00:02:06.500 That's awesome. 00:02:06.500 --> 00:02:07.160 Live and in the moment. 00:02:07.720 --> 00:02:08.540 So what year was that? 00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:10.220 This was 2009. 00:02:10.720 --> 00:02:14.980 2009, 10 years ago, live streaming his own wedding. 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:18.060 Now, the real question is, was it FireWire 400 or USB? 00:02:18.580 --> 00:02:21.080 It was FireWire 400. 00:02:21.320 --> 00:02:23.500 I am proud to say it was FireWire 400. 00:02:24.040 --> 00:02:24.140 Wow. 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:27.020 Yeah, a track enthusiast here, you know. 00:02:28.480 --> 00:02:32.840 Yeah, and that's about as techie as I want to get with these broadcasts. 00:02:32.840 --> 00:02:38.080 There will be time with the podcast where we'll talk more on the technology side. 00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:44.100 But, you know, really the core of what we're doing here with Church Online is not just in the broadcast, 00:02:44.380 --> 00:02:46.640 but it's in the discipleship piece. 00:02:47.180 --> 00:02:47.400 Right. 00:02:47.960 --> 00:02:53.120 And so, Ray, utilizing that technology, and this is a poor man's example, 00:02:53.220 --> 00:02:57.240 but utilizing the technology to broadcast the wedding, it wasn't the technology piece. 00:02:57.240 --> 00:03:01.900 It was to allow family members from long distance away to be part of the community. 00:03:02.220 --> 00:03:02.620 Exactly. 00:03:02.760 --> 00:03:04.960 That aspect of what was happening in that. 00:03:05.220 --> 00:03:12.180 And so, and that's just a small picture, a little bit of how Church Online breaks down those barriers 00:03:12.180 --> 00:03:17.080 and hopefully not just engages or allows for one-way communication, 00:03:17.300 --> 00:03:23.400 but two-way communication where it's coming back and people are able to be part of the community 00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:25.540 of what's happening at the church. 00:03:26.020 --> 00:03:31.560 So, yeah, I've got a long, fun record myself with Church Online and digital technology. 00:03:32.180 --> 00:03:35.800 I had this idea, and this is crazy, and when I tell this story, people are like, you're nuts, 00:03:35.860 --> 00:03:37.840 but I had this idea like 20 years ago. 00:03:37.940 --> 00:03:40.540 What would it look like if Church worked online? 00:03:40.780 --> 00:03:46.240 But back when I graduated college in 99 and 2000, it was like real networks, 00:03:46.240 --> 00:03:51.260 which you don't even hear of anymore, and Microsoft front page, and a lot of this, 00:03:51.920 --> 00:03:54.420 the technology and the pieces really just weren't in play. 00:03:54.860 --> 00:04:00.760 And it's been fun to see over the years how the church has grown and how technology has expanded. 00:04:01.420 --> 00:04:04.620 And the church has adopted somewhat to it. 00:04:04.620 --> 00:04:11.980 There have always been forerunners and people who lead the way, like Life.Church, obviously, 00:04:12.340 --> 00:04:16.200 and Grunewald and what has been able to do, not only defining church online, 00:04:16.380 --> 00:04:18.180 but the YouVersion with the Bible. 00:04:18.740 --> 00:04:19.920 And that's really true. 00:04:19.960 --> 00:04:26.360 When you look at Christian innovators, what he's been able to produce and do things through Life.Church 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:26.980 has been phenomenal. 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:28.800 But there have been others along the way. 00:04:29.180 --> 00:04:36.680 And so we'll be talking in a podcast relatively soon with Jay Cranda, who's the online pastor over at Saddleback. 00:04:36.760 --> 00:04:40.120 And one of the things that I love about Saddleback, and Jay is being the online pastor, 00:04:40.560 --> 00:04:44.800 he'll tell you, he's like, yeah, I operate more like a small groups pastor than anything else. 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:50.000 It's not so much what we're doing with our services, but it's how we're connecting people in community. 00:04:50.200 --> 00:04:54.080 Jay actually is the first guy who told me that people connect online, 00:04:54.440 --> 00:04:56.680 they connect to community before they connect to Christ. 00:04:56.680 --> 00:04:58.860 And it's backwards in the physical environments. 00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:02.540 We usually see people connect to Christ before they'll join a small group. 00:05:02.600 --> 00:05:04.180 They'll get saved in a service. 00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:06.320 And then you try to get them into a small group. 00:05:07.040 --> 00:05:10.520 What Jay's experienced over at Saddleback is the exact opposite. 00:05:11.220 --> 00:05:13.480 And so there's really some interesting parallels. 00:05:13.880 --> 00:05:18.120 But the end game for a lot of it has been, at least in my lifespan, 00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:22.400 has been trying to create discipleship opportunities, create community, 00:05:22.980 --> 00:05:26.220 give an opportunity for people to grow deeper in their faith. 00:05:26.220 --> 00:05:30.200 And even to equip them to evangelize or to share. 00:05:30.200 --> 00:05:32.900 And all of a sudden now I'm using really big churchy words. 00:05:33.500 --> 00:05:38.260 But the heart of Church Online, and Ray, you and I have talked about this a lot, 00:05:38.340 --> 00:05:44.760 the heart of Church Online is not broadcasting a single message out for millions of people to hear. 00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:47.700 Billy Graham did that back in the 90s. 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:49.440 And talk about another Christian innovator. 00:05:49.600 --> 00:05:51.620 Billy did some phenomenal stuff. 00:05:51.620 --> 00:06:00.280 And literally one of his messages that was on the mission of the gospel was broadcast across the U.S., 00:06:00.280 --> 00:06:05.200 was bounced off of satellites, was translated into different languages across the globe. 00:06:05.420 --> 00:06:08.700 One message literally hit a billion people. 00:06:09.260 --> 00:06:17.240 Experts can show it, mark it off that one man's message was heard simultaneously by a billion different people across the globe. 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:17.840 That's amazing. 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:18.780 I mean, think about that. 00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:19.760 Think about that impact. 00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:21.740 And we have more power. 00:06:22.200 --> 00:06:27.140 I mean, at this point, because it's different, we're not just broadcasting a single message back. 00:06:27.240 --> 00:06:32.080 But now we have the opportunity to hear and listen to, I don't want to say billions, 00:06:32.400 --> 00:06:40.280 but tons of people and tons of information coming back in where we can dialogue different than what Billy ever could. 00:06:40.580 --> 00:06:40.740 Go ahead. 00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:48.820 Speak into that because a reoccurring theme, as we talk to some of these Church Online guys from around the United States, 00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:54.980 pastors and different stuff, stewardship keeps coming up in terms of God gifted us this technology. 00:06:55.240 --> 00:06:56.760 We get to grow up in the information era. 00:06:56.760 --> 00:07:00.460 We get to bring the gospel to this, and we're accountable. 00:07:00.860 --> 00:07:05.860 Can you give some insight as to your thoughts and views on what you think about that? 00:07:08.160 --> 00:07:14.500 Listening to people is paramount to us being able to share with them. 00:07:14.660 --> 00:07:20.860 Actually, I ran across an old stat just recently, and if you go on to thechurch.digit, we'll put it in the show notes. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:23.400 There's a blog that was blogged on this. 00:07:23.400 --> 00:07:30.220 But it's basically to the crux of two-thirds of people will not come to your church service. 00:07:30.720 --> 00:07:31.700 They just don't want to come. 00:07:32.500 --> 00:07:34.640 They don't believe. 00:07:34.860 --> 00:07:35.640 They're not interested. 00:07:36.100 --> 00:07:37.180 You invite them to church. 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:38.560 They're not going to. 00:07:38.560 --> 00:07:40.300 So the coffee is not going to change their mind? 00:07:40.760 --> 00:07:40.920 No. 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:48.580 The coffee, more haze, less haze, more light, less light, more dynamic sermon series, more marketing. 00:07:48.920 --> 00:07:50.700 They're just not coming. 00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:55.400 And what's interesting is, like I said, LifeWay 2016 ran this study. 00:07:55.780 --> 00:07:59.140 66% of people, I believe it was somewhere around that number, aren't coming. 00:07:59.980 --> 00:08:18.020 But if you can get people to live the life, if the people that you need to go to church, they need to accept Christ, if they see it in their friends, if they see that their faith is important to them, they'll go. 00:08:18.800 --> 00:08:20.400 They'll have that conversation. 00:08:21.200 --> 00:08:33.000 And so, you know, for the church, it really comes down to not trying to create the best product and the best service to get people there, but to create disciples who are creating disciples. 00:08:33.660 --> 00:08:48.100 And all of a sudden, it's getting our followers, our attenders, our members, use whatever language you want to use, but get them not just to talk the talk, but to walk the walk. 00:08:48.260 --> 00:09:03.060 And so if the people who need Christ see that it's important to their friends that faith is important, that Jesus is important, if they see that lived out in their life, they will have the conversation. 00:09:03.660 --> 00:09:06.980 But they have to see that lived out in a practical way. 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:13.500 And so by doing that, all of a sudden, like 80% of people will have a conversation about faith. 00:09:13.560 --> 00:09:15.760 They won't go to a church service, LifeWay Research. 00:09:15.760 --> 00:09:24.560 They won't go to a church service, but they will talk about it if they see in their friend's life that their faith is important to them. 00:09:24.640 --> 00:09:27.440 That's quite literally the phrasing on that. 00:09:28.080 --> 00:09:44.860 And so now, you know, as a church, we have a huge accountability to train our people on how to get the gospel right, on how to explain who Jesus is, to encourage them to be that front line of evangelism. 00:09:44.860 --> 00:09:49.880 Francis Chan, evangelism doesn't happen in our cathedrals or temples anymore. 00:09:50.060 --> 00:09:56.900 Evangelism in the future is going to happen in our homes and in our living rooms as it becomes more practical and real. 00:09:57.220 --> 00:10:01.640 And so, you know, the accountability for the soul has changed. 00:10:02.240 --> 00:10:08.100 In American church in the past, you know, it's been the, bring them in, let me share the gospel. 00:10:08.300 --> 00:10:12.700 You know, the pastor standing up and the pastor being the hero of the story. 00:10:12.880 --> 00:10:14.780 And for many years, that needed to happen. 00:10:16.440 --> 00:10:24.940 Training wasn't in place and education wasn't in place and resources weren't in place to empower people really with the gospel. 00:10:25.420 --> 00:10:30.100 But at the end of the day, 2019, we have access to all this stuff. 00:10:30.440 --> 00:10:35.740 And more important than any research or any app, we've got the Holy Spirit living in us. 00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:41.580 And so the role of the church, I would suggest to be relevant for the future, shifts a little bit here, right? 00:10:41.800 --> 00:10:54.920 Where we need to now move away from getting this massive message out there as much as, hey, let's figure out how to empower people with the message of Christ so that they can share their friends. 00:10:54.920 --> 00:10:56.460 The hero isn't the pastor anymore. 00:10:56.880 --> 00:10:58.380 The hero is the people. 00:10:59.260 --> 00:11:20.040 And so through church and swinging back the pendulum, through church online, we now have the opportunity to research, to disciple, to train, to equip people with the gospel so that they can empower others, so that they can share with others, so that they can reach others for Christ. 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:29.940 Can you speak into the fact that a lot of Christians are already using technology like this for forms of discipleship, for growth, for things like this? 00:11:30.460 --> 00:11:31.520 I'm thinking of my own father. 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:37.640 My own father is looking on YouTube, you know, for Tim Keller studies or, you know, R.C. Sproul, but then he's sharing that with other people. 00:11:37.740 --> 00:11:43.480 Like he's taking these resources and spreading them out, you know, not just for his own benefit, but for the benefit of others. 00:11:43.780 --> 00:11:45.900 Can you speak into some of the stuff that you've seen with that too, Jeff? 00:11:46.960 --> 00:11:50.980 Like what, how would that work for, how would that work for your dad, Ray? 00:11:51.080 --> 00:11:56.900 Like what, what's his motivation when he's kind of sharing some of that and pushing some of those resources out? 00:11:57.280 --> 00:12:00.620 You know, the pure motivation comes from, he sees something that's benefited him. 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:03.320 And then he's saying, how can this benefit others? 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.460 You know, at this point, my dad's, you know, he's towards like the legacy end. 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:10.900 And so a lot of things that he's looking at aren't just for his, for himself. 00:12:11.600 --> 00:12:18.100 So, you know, when he disciples guys, he's constantly on the lookout for resources for them and then following up with them. 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:22.940 So it's like you said, it's not just about the content, but it's about the community aspect of the content after the fact. 00:12:23.040 --> 00:12:25.420 It's, hey, watch, watch this, but then let's engage. 00:12:26.000 --> 00:12:27.100 Let's, let's converse. 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.000 Let's go deeper. 00:12:28.200 --> 00:12:29.240 What do you disagree with? 00:12:29.280 --> 00:12:30.100 What did you agree with? 00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:31.260 What, what worked off of that? 00:12:31.560 --> 00:12:34.340 And, and it adds to the conversation. 00:12:34.340 --> 00:12:37.740 And this is, you know, uh, an awesome gentleman in his sixties. 00:12:37.740 --> 00:12:40.220 We're not talking about like, you know, folks who are in a bleeding edge tech. 00:12:40.220 --> 00:12:44.140 We're talking about, uh, you know, older folks who are saying, Hey, I've got this in my pocket. 00:12:44.140 --> 00:12:47.620 I've never had a resource through which I can learn from on the fly. 00:12:47.860 --> 00:12:56.140 And now I can willingly and easily and for free distribute this with others and, and engage in conversations and spaces that aren't even limited by time. 00:12:56.560 --> 00:13:00.740 Because, you know, he can send a guy in a small group, a text message, Hey, did you watch the video? 00:13:00.920 --> 00:13:02.920 And that guy will get back to him like three hours later. 00:13:03.000 --> 00:13:03.640 Yeah, I caught it. 00:13:03.640 --> 00:13:04.140 It was awesome. 00:13:04.220 --> 00:13:04.740 No, not yet. 00:13:04.780 --> 00:13:06.580 I'm going to, yeah, this is what I thought. 00:13:06.640 --> 00:13:07.460 Oh, I thought it was garbage. 00:13:07.540 --> 00:13:08.360 Oh, here's what I liked. 00:13:08.760 --> 00:13:12.640 And so it's not even limited by, Hey, we have to be in the same space in the same time. 00:13:13.300 --> 00:13:15.780 It's like, no, they're growing together over, over a period. 00:13:15.840 --> 00:13:16.660 It's a longer journey. 00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:26.420 And that I think is, is what's key, uh, because it's discipleship, whether through church line or physical church, like there's, it's a relationship. 00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:31.460 It's a two-way conversation where, um, there, there's dialogue. 00:13:31.580 --> 00:13:38.080 You're, you're, you're coaching, you're, you're directing, you're helping, you're praying with a specific person or persons. 00:13:38.460 --> 00:13:50.280 And so it's, it's not a, um, a one-way conversation where I'm, I'm throwing, um, you know, the, the, the parable, just throwing seeds out there and it's bouncing wherever it's bouncing. 00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:55.380 And some of them may, they bounce on, on soft soil, but some of them may be on, on rocky path. 00:13:55.700 --> 00:14:03.680 And so the, the, the picture here with the two-way conversation is, is your dialoguing with someone and taking the steps through that. 00:14:03.680 --> 00:14:11.820 Your, your dad's example of, of sharing that video and, and going through, you know, WhatsApp or texting or Facebook messenger or whatever, dialoguing through that. 00:14:12.020 --> 00:14:18.540 You know, that's, that's a, that's a pure picture of what discipleship looks like in 2007, 2019, right? 00:14:19.040 --> 00:14:22.060 Because it's, um, time is difficult. 00:14:22.060 --> 00:14:26.600 And so sometimes even sitting down the schedule, Hey, let's have a 30 minute conversation. 00:14:26.600 --> 00:14:27.780 Let's have a coffee. 00:14:28.020 --> 00:14:29.480 Like it's, it's go, go, go. 00:14:29.520 --> 00:14:30.580 And stuff gets lost. 00:14:30.580 --> 00:14:43.140 But utilizing the, the, the, the, the, the easeability of technology to have those conversations, to share those resources, to dialogue, to, to, to pray for, uh, to, to encourage through, uh, hard seasons. 00:14:43.820 --> 00:14:47.640 That's what the technology does, you know, outside of the church world. 00:14:48.420 --> 00:15:01.000 Corporates understand that and has figured out, Hey, let's, let's change our branding and be available through Twitter or through, you know, different things to Facebook, uh, messenger, uh, to, to communicate with, with brands and, and through the church. 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:03.500 Like we need to wrestle with those same things too. 00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:14.840 You know, right now, when I look at church online, let me spend the corner here a little bit, but when I look at church online, um, I see a lot of churches that are pushing their services out on Facebook live. 00:15:14.840 --> 00:15:19.640 You know, I'm picking on that platform, church online platform, um, is, is awesome as well. 00:15:20.160 --> 00:15:25.200 Um, you know, there's, there's YouTube, there's, uh, pair, uh, Periscope, Twitter, whatever. 00:15:25.360 --> 00:15:28.400 They're all trying to get their, their videos out there. 00:15:28.400 --> 00:15:35.000 And what's interesting is probably guesstimate, probably five to 10,000 churches right now who are broadcasting their church services online. 00:15:35.880 --> 00:15:44.540 Earlier, the early last year, late last year, I did some research and this is unscientific, just starting to ask around who's doing this now. 00:15:44.540 --> 00:15:59.400 Now, as near as I could tell of those five to 10,000 churches, only 100 churches had some sort of online, small group, online discipleship group, digital group culture in place. 00:15:59.540 --> 00:16:14.360 So while five to 10,000 churches were broadcasting their services on a regular base, a very small percentage, I'm doing numbers in my head, maybe it's 2%, actually took the time to create a biblical community in an online context. 00:16:14.360 --> 00:16:17.820 Like, so people could grow together and grow deeper in their faith. 00:16:18.600 --> 00:16:29.280 Now there's, this opens up lots of different, uh, questions like, well, maybe my church isn't interested in doing, um, uh, like a digital person and trying to reach people who are far away from the location. 00:16:30.180 --> 00:16:40.160 Interestingly, North Point, and this was actually just mentioned on a Kerry Newhoff podcast, man, I think late December, 2018, it's like when he was doing his like church trends. 00:16:40.460 --> 00:16:53.420 And, and he had on, uh, Brad Lomanek from, um, uh, catalyst and, um, and he had done the, the campus pastor, Clay Scroggins from, uh, or I think he's a lead pastor, Clay Scroggins from, uh, from North Point. 00:16:53.760 --> 00:16:58.100 And, and Clay actually dropped the, the, the, the landmine right at the end of the podcast. 00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:00.240 It was one of those things that was like Steve Jobs. 00:17:00.340 --> 00:17:02.120 Oh, by the way, we're, we're doing this. 00:17:02.440 --> 00:17:07.360 And, uh, but it was, it was this line of, yeah, we, we tried, uh, they call it digital groups. 00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:11.020 We, we, we did digital groups targeted to our online campus. 00:17:11.020 --> 00:17:20.620 The people who only watch online, they launched 10 groups, um, 10 people per group in max capacity filled up in like less than 24 hours. 00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:30.320 So the next week they did something different when they marketed the church, the small groups for the physical church, didn't mention it in online context, just aim towards physical. 00:17:30.600 --> 00:17:33.300 They launched the, that small group out. 00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:36.820 They launched two small groups with 10 people. 00:17:37.460 --> 00:17:42.040 Those filled up in a couple hours and they had a 200 person waiting list. 00:17:42.580 --> 00:17:50.860 And so the, the moral of the story is that the physical campuses could benefit from doing things digitally. 00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:57.280 There were people who could connect better to a, to a digital small group, even though they're involved with the physical church. 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:08.280 And suddenly what we're starting to see through North point is, is these, the, the divider lines between a physical church and an online church are starting to blur. 00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:15.340 And it's not so much an online campus as much as it is the online representation of, of church. 00:18:15.760 --> 00:18:16.720 What do you think about that, Ray? 00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:23.320 You know, so often, um, we try to figure out how online fits into church. 00:18:23.320 --> 00:18:27.180 And so, you know, we struggle through, well, there's a campus, there's a ministry, so many different things. 00:18:27.680 --> 00:18:39.520 Even within the multi-site movement, part of what I'm looking at and what I'm seeing is that if, if you're really talking about your church as one church in multiple locations, including online, people are viewing it more like Home Depot. 00:18:39.880 --> 00:18:47.620 Uh, they don't, they don't see it as I'm going to, you know, in Miami, we've got multiple locations of Home Depot, you know, throughout Miami-Dade County. 00:18:47.620 --> 00:18:49.280 And so I always say, I'm going to Home Depot. 00:18:49.380 --> 00:18:55.100 I don't say I'm going to the Bird Road location or to the Pinecrest location, or, hey, I'm buying this on HomeDepot.com. 00:18:55.340 --> 00:18:57.220 I tell my wife, hey, I got it from Home Depot. 00:18:57.500 --> 00:18:58.480 Ray, where did you get that from? 00:18:58.520 --> 00:18:59.320 I got it from Home Depot. 00:18:59.440 --> 00:19:06.740 And so it doesn't matter which location I visit or, you know, whether I'm buying it through their website or whether I'm showing it up and picking it in person. 00:19:07.040 --> 00:19:10.860 The bottom line is that no matter what, I'm filing it under Home Depot. 00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:14.280 And in the same way, people are looking at Christ Fellowship the same way. 00:19:14.280 --> 00:19:22.940 They consider themselves dedicated to Christ Fellowship, even if they only attend a physical campus, like at a physical brick and mortar location once a month. 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:32.080 But at the same time, they engage in our services and in our online community throughout the month while they're gone or while they're traveling or even while they're just brunching in the city of Miami. 00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.620 They still consider themselves part of our church. 00:19:35.960 --> 00:19:38.440 They still consider themselves bought in. 00:19:38.740 --> 00:19:42.480 And I know that may make some church leaders and pastors shudder, oh, once a month, man. 00:19:42.480 --> 00:19:43.800 I don't know if I would consider them bought in. 00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:51.680 Well, I'm telling you right now, that may or may not be what we consider, but they consider Christ Fellowship being their home church at that point. 00:19:51.780 --> 00:19:53.480 They say, man, this is my church. 00:19:53.780 --> 00:19:55.220 And they even engage in giving. 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:56.180 They engage in serving. 00:19:56.280 --> 00:19:57.080 They engage in community. 00:19:57.740 --> 00:20:01.480 That one Sunday a month that they attend might be the week that they serve. 00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:03.260 And so they're like, yeah, you know what? 00:20:03.260 --> 00:20:04.080 I'm part of a ministry. 00:20:04.300 --> 00:20:06.000 And I'm here in person serving. 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:07.920 But the rest of the time, you know what? 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.660 I'm engaging in that online community. 00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:11.740 But they don't even file it under separate systems. 00:20:11.980 --> 00:20:14.840 They're looking at it as Christ Fellowship is my church. 00:20:15.040 --> 00:20:17.880 And they don't separate online in physical location. 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.240 They're looking at it from one perspective. 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:29.420 And so I think that's a challenge for all of us here in 2019 as we're getting adapted to this new way of being, especially in terms of church. 00:20:30.140 --> 00:20:31.900 Yeah, let me let me hit on this. 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:36.540 So there are three different types of people who will watch an online service. 00:20:37.400 --> 00:20:40.760 So this there there's this has been dialogued and worked through. 00:20:40.980 --> 00:20:43.080 I honestly I forget the first place that I heard it. 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:46.140 It may have been Clay Scroggins a year or so ago. 00:20:46.700 --> 00:20:51.880 But the first group of people, you know, let's let's call them the front door. 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:54.920 So these are people that are interested in your physical church service. 00:20:55.700 --> 00:21:00.280 But before they actually come, they want to watch a service online. 00:21:00.380 --> 00:21:01.980 Maybe they stumble on the website. 00:21:02.180 --> 00:21:03.920 Maybe somebody gives them an invite card. 00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:07.100 They see something on social media where somebody shares it. 00:21:07.380 --> 00:21:08.940 There's an interest that's peaked. 00:21:09.460 --> 00:21:11.260 They're brand new, brand new. 00:21:11.340 --> 00:21:12.220 Don't know anything about you. 00:21:12.300 --> 00:21:13.260 They want to figure out who you are. 00:21:13.460 --> 00:21:16.400 If they like your music style, if what clothes do they need to wear? 00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.820 Like they're going to check you out in an online environment. 00:21:20.120 --> 00:21:22.460 Now, the discipleship, that's all of us. 00:21:22.600 --> 00:21:29.840 Like if you were moving to a new city, no matter if you're a Christian for 10, 15 years, whatever else, at some point, we're all front door folks. 00:21:29.920 --> 00:21:31.180 Like I completely agree with you, Jeff. 00:21:31.580 --> 00:21:34.220 Yeah, like I'm trying to find a restaurant. 00:21:34.380 --> 00:21:36.340 I was just talking with Ray before he came on the podcast. 00:21:36.480 --> 00:21:42.400 I'm trying to find a Cuban restaurant in South Beach because I want to go have a lunch with a guy tomorrow. 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:45.140 And so I'm on I'm on Google. 00:21:45.560 --> 00:21:46.920 I'm on Apple Maps. 00:21:47.060 --> 00:21:49.500 I'm digging around and there's two different restaurants. 00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:53.420 And I'm looking at reviews to see what people thought of that. 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:57.320 This is me trying to find a restaurant to eat at tomorrow with with a guy from out of town. 00:21:57.880 --> 00:22:06.360 And so having that web presence, having your online service so that it's reaching that front door person is vital. 00:22:06.840 --> 00:22:08.620 But those aren't the only people who are watching. 00:22:08.620 --> 00:22:12.680 You know, the second group of people, let's call them side door people. 00:22:13.320 --> 00:22:18.540 They are the people who are regularly engaged in the mission and vision of your church. 00:22:18.580 --> 00:22:19.660 They're regular attenders. 00:22:19.880 --> 00:22:27.640 For whatever reason, they didn't show up for your church service on Sunday, but they're still aware and plugged into what's going on in context of your church. 00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:28.280 That's right. 00:22:28.400 --> 00:22:29.880 Maybe they got a sick kid at home. 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:32.120 I mean, I've got two kids, eight and 10. 00:22:32.820 --> 00:22:38.180 Once a month, my wife's not making a church service on a weekend because sick kids. 00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:42.620 I mean, one on one fever happens all the time. 00:22:42.740 --> 00:22:43.720 It's just life. 00:22:44.060 --> 00:22:52.680 And so as as an example, if maybe it's that, maybe if it's traveling for work, traveling on vacation, working, having to work on a weekend. 00:22:53.560 --> 00:22:55.720 You know, and once again, like, I'm not saying this is right. 00:22:55.780 --> 00:22:56.580 I'm not saying this is wrong. 00:22:56.620 --> 00:22:57.600 I'm just saying it's the reality. 00:22:58.200 --> 00:22:59.960 Maybe they just don't want to get their clothes on. 00:22:59.980 --> 00:23:02.960 I want to stay at home on the couch for whatever reason. 00:23:04.220 --> 00:23:09.480 Rather than looking at this in a negative light church, let's look at a positive light. 00:23:09.940 --> 00:23:13.000 There are people who are not engaging with your church physically. 00:23:13.340 --> 00:23:16.020 They could have just checked out and said, hey, you know what? 00:23:16.360 --> 00:23:17.680 I just I'm not interested. 00:23:17.820 --> 00:23:19.220 It's the same thing every week. 00:23:19.440 --> 00:23:21.040 I'll just catch up next week. 00:23:21.040 --> 00:23:23.400 That's not what these people are. 00:23:23.560 --> 00:23:37.080 Coming in online, whether they're watching service, maybe they're watching a sermon on demand during the week, whatever the content is, they're engaging with your church, even though they're not in the in the physical building. 00:23:37.680 --> 00:23:43.500 And so those are two, you know, really good options that are that are helping the physical church. 00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:50.340 And so even though they're they're engaging with content online, a lot of the ministry often happens in physical spaces. 00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:51.020 Yeah. 00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:53.500 Now, the third group of people is it's a little different. 00:23:53.700 --> 00:23:56.540 And so the third group, let's call them the digital door people. 00:23:56.900 --> 00:24:01.360 These are the people that the only door they're ever going to walk through is digitally. 00:24:01.800 --> 00:24:02.660 Yeah, that's right. 00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:07.240 You know, you know, maybe this is somebody who lives outside of your 20 mile circle of influence. 00:24:07.360 --> 00:24:10.580 Maybe they're on the other side of town or city or, you know, somewhere nearby. 00:24:10.880 --> 00:24:15.980 Maybe they're on the other side of the state country or maybe they're in another like on the other continent. 00:24:16.700 --> 00:24:16.800 Right. 00:24:16.920 --> 00:24:21.880 Whatever the reason is, they're not interested in coming into your physical space. 00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:30.040 They are looking to your church for spiritual guidance or spiritual direction. 00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:41.720 And so this is a completely separate mission field that's open to many churches, but they haven't yet figured out how to to realize it and how to how to grab it and how to move with it. 00:24:42.180 --> 00:24:51.140 So you've got these people are going to be talking a lot about this in the in the coming podcasts and episodes and on my blog at the church that digitally you can read a lot on this. 00:24:51.140 --> 00:25:00.800 But church, we've got people that are actively involved and actively engaging and are actively looking for spiritual guidance from you. 00:25:01.280 --> 00:25:07.680 It's just a matter of whether you want to listen to them and dialogue with them in that. 00:25:08.360 --> 00:25:16.240 And that's that right there is a fascinating concept because many churches might look at this and consider this kind of outside of their quote unquote jurisdiction. 00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:29.920 And the sad thing about that is, you know, we're all held accountable for what God brings us, whether that's inside our city limits or whether that's inside our digital limits, however they may they may occur. 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:42.880 And what we've come to find both Jeff and I and doing, you know, church online is that there are a lot of folks who for whatever reason cannot access, even though they live within your vicinity, your front door. 00:25:43.380 --> 00:25:47.020 They can't. And so digital spaces are their primary spaces. 00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:52.800 And so you need to engage them. You need to engage them as much as possible because they need you. 00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:56.000 They need you to disciple them. They need you to help take them to that next level. 00:25:56.420 --> 00:26:00.720 You are the person that God provided in their life to take that next step with them. 00:26:00.980 --> 00:26:04.060 And so the question then becomes, will you answer the calling and engage? 00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:08.040 Yeah. Here's a test that I want you to play. It's a game. 00:26:08.040 --> 00:26:14.020 And I do this a lot of time when I talk with churches about digitally in context of line online. 00:26:15.480 --> 00:26:23.200 If what happens at the online campus in your online service, what happens if somebody gets saved online? 00:26:23.760 --> 00:26:26.060 If the answer is, I don't know. 00:26:26.580 --> 00:26:29.080 You mean somebody can get saved online, Jeff? That's possible? 00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:32.540 Lives can change in context. You know, it's funny. 00:26:32.640 --> 00:26:37.540 It's like, if we don't think that lives can change online, then why are we broadcasting our services online? 00:26:37.780 --> 00:26:39.160 It doesn't make any sense to. 00:26:39.520 --> 00:26:42.620 So we're expecting God to do something with it. 00:26:43.200 --> 00:26:50.040 But now we need to say what happens in the physical environments if somebody gets saved. 00:26:50.200 --> 00:26:53.380 We need to represent that and do that online. 00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:59.120 So whatever your process is for your church, do it online. 00:26:59.740 --> 00:27:05.320 Create online so that it's a mirror image of what's happening at your physical church. 00:27:05.660 --> 00:27:10.180 It's not an afterthought. It's not a thing that kind of gets swept under the rug. 00:27:10.280 --> 00:27:14.140 It's not something that's forgotten. It's not icing on the cake. 00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:20.120 It's the virtual execution of what's happening at your church. 00:27:20.120 --> 00:27:23.340 And hold your online to your same standard. 00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:32.340 You know, if you're meeting with somebody, you're getting plugged into a Next Steps class, you're getting plugged into a discipleship group, do that online. 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:39.080 You know, utilize the technology in place to engage in a conversation and to disciple that person. 00:27:40.140 --> 00:27:58.160 And we're going to be talking a lot about that as we talk about we've got a podcast coming up that's going to be awesome where we're talking about a discipleship pathway and what it means to take, you know, an entire church, but at the same time an individual and help that person grow deeper in their faith. 00:27:58.160 --> 00:28:07.080 And to help somebody who is far away from God suddenly become close to him utilizing online technology and personal investing in that. 00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:11.120 So, listen, I am really excited about this podcast. 00:28:11.380 --> 00:28:15.000 And we're going to be rolling these things out, Raymond, for every other week. 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:19.620 And we've already recorded a bunch of them and have a great schedule lined up. 00:28:19.780 --> 00:28:31.540 And so I'm looking forward to rolling out this conversation more, not only between Ray, but also with you, the audience, engaging on social media and some different things. 00:28:31.900 --> 00:28:34.980 So, hey, Ray, where can people find you on social media? 00:28:34.980 --> 00:28:40.240 I'm almost on all platforms, at Ray DeArmas, R-E-Y-D-E-A-R-M-A-S. 00:28:40.360 --> 00:28:42.020 You can catch that in the show notes as well. 00:28:42.080 --> 00:28:43.180 We'll go ahead and link up to that. 00:28:43.540 --> 00:28:45.900 I'm on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, et cetera. 00:28:46.060 --> 00:28:48.240 And so please go ahead and engage us in conversation. 00:28:48.760 --> 00:28:49.440 Agree, disagree. 00:28:49.660 --> 00:28:51.280 Go ahead and let's talk. 00:28:51.720 --> 00:28:57.560 And then especially if you love basketball or Marvel stuff, go ahead and follow me, engage, and let's have some fun, man. 00:28:57.600 --> 00:28:58.000 Let's go. 00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:01.760 Yeah, he's not kidding about the basketball and the Marvel stuff. 00:29:02.100 --> 00:29:05.980 And he left out LinkedIn, which, you know, we're going to just let that go. 00:29:06.040 --> 00:29:06.420 It's okay. 00:29:07.480 --> 00:29:08.860 LinkedIn, somewhere out there. 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:10.300 Somewhere, somewhere. 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:11.100 I use it. 00:29:11.760 --> 00:29:14.820 I am, I'm deerfedge, which is weird. 00:29:14.960 --> 00:29:16.300 It's actually Jeff Reed backwards. 00:29:17.080 --> 00:29:23.320 So imagine like a deer with antlers, deer, F-F-E-J, Jeff Reed backwards. 00:29:23.320 --> 00:29:24.220 It's in the show notes. 00:29:24.540 --> 00:29:29.540 It's a lot, show notes is a lot of fun, a lot of good resources in there each and every week. 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.100 But approach us and let's dialogue through this. 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:43.940 Through the church online, we create a lot of content and we help churches wrestle with these things of online church, online ministry, online discipleship. 00:29:44.080 --> 00:29:52.180 Trying to figure out how to utilize this space better to not create a separate ecosystem separate from your existing church, 00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:57.260 but really to holistically create one ministry of your church that exists in online spaces. 00:29:57.260 --> 00:30:07.280 And so I'm going to be traveling around speaking at some things, but hit up the website, thechurch.digital, for more information on the ministry and the organization that's there, 00:30:07.280 --> 00:30:18.840 as well as a ton of blogs and resources that are there that we're creating that really just will help, hopefully inspire, hopefully educate, hopefully encourage, 00:30:19.220 --> 00:30:23.760 and then hopefully give you some ammunition that doesn't match with all the, well, it's all vows. 00:30:24.540 --> 00:30:35.060 So hopefully, you know, give you some inspiration or ammunition as you go out there and have these conversations with your leaders and your leadership teams and your lead pastors, 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:39.380 fleshing through what church online can and should be. 00:30:39.860 --> 00:30:43.560 So, well, hey, Ray, any closing thoughts while we land this plane? 00:30:43.860 --> 00:30:44.860 Yeah, absolutely. 00:30:45.040 --> 00:30:48.920 Just want to encourage those of you who are catching us for the first time, stay with us on the journey. 00:30:49.520 --> 00:30:53.020 And I want to also encourage you, we're all trying. 00:30:53.240 --> 00:30:54.260 We're all new at this. 00:30:54.540 --> 00:30:58.900 And so if you're sitting here, you know, asking yourself, well, I'm brand new and I don't know what I'm doing, 00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:00.640 we want to continue to encourage you. 00:31:01.040 --> 00:31:02.040 Keep trying new things. 00:31:02.460 --> 00:31:03.460 Keep testing the waters. 00:31:03.700 --> 00:31:05.340 Continue to create community online. 00:31:05.800 --> 00:31:10.560 We're going to wrestle with this relationship between content and community and talk about what it's all about. 00:31:11.020 --> 00:31:15.580 Keep trying to create community online with your people and engage them spiritually. 00:31:15.720 --> 00:31:16.960 You're going to have a great time doing it. 00:31:17.500 --> 00:31:17.700 Amen. 00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:23.040 Remember, people will connect in online spaces, and I've seen this and I've heard multiple people say it. 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:27.780 People will connect to community before they connect to Christ online. 00:31:28.220 --> 00:31:30.640 So utilize those opportunities to create opportunity. 00:31:31.180 --> 00:31:33.060 Ray, hey, man, thanks for joining in for the show. 00:31:33.060 --> 00:31:42.020 My name is Jeff Reed, and it's been a pleasure to be with you and looking forward to seeing you next, again, here, hopefully soon, on the Church Digital Podcast. 00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.980 Y'all have a good day. 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:48.740 I've needed to cough for the past 30 minutes. 00:31:48.940 --> 00:31:49.360 Oh, my God. 00:31:49.360 --> 00:31:49.620 You're a champion. 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:50.500 You're a champion.