WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.080 episode 104 of the church digital podcast powered by stadia church planning jeff here i always love 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:09.920 saying that powered by stadia church planning it's been less than a year here uh and i love 00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:14.080 working with stadia church planning i'm going to go into a selfish plug here right up here at the 00:00:14.080 --> 00:00:20.880 front stadia is doing a phenomenal amount of resources helping churches like yours established 00:00:20.880 --> 00:00:26.620 physical churches understand the physical aspects as well as the digital aspects of of doing 00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:32.680 ministry we've adapted this term digital p-h-y-g-i-t-a-l you've heard me say it here on the 00:00:32.680 --> 00:00:38.160 show time and time again but if your church is interested in learning how to thrive grow and even 00:00:38.160 --> 00:00:45.660 multiply in this mid post-covid season uh doing it physically as well as digitally hey we should 00:00:45.660 --> 00:00:54.680 really talk head over to stadia church planting.org slash digital p-h-y-g-i-t-a-l we'll go ahead and put 00:00:54.680 --> 00:00:58.980 the link in the show notes too but there's an incredible opportunity for churches like yours to 00:00:58.980 --> 00:01:04.340 take that next step not only physically not only digitally but also ultimately towards creating 00:01:04.340 --> 00:01:09.780 disciple makers out of your church and multiplying through your church check out stadia church 00:01:09.780 --> 00:01:16.140 planning.org slash digital all right hey so let's talk about 104 here i am excited about this episode 00:01:16.140 --> 00:01:21.440 greg nettle president of stadia throughout basically this entire covet season he has asked me the same 00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:27.600 question time and time again and and honestly like i've been stammering transparently awkwardly maybe i 00:01:27.600 --> 00:01:32.400 don't have a good answer to this question here's the question greg nettle asks me jeff how have you 00:01:32.400 --> 00:01:39.840 seen the the spirit of god uh tangibly move through online in uh this covet season i would tell a story 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:44.020 here i tell a story there but he kept he would ask the same question over and over again so it's like 00:01:44.020 --> 00:01:49.320 hey you know what i need to find better answers because he really wants to know the answer to this so i i would 00:01:49.320 --> 00:01:54.140 like start putting on facebook groups i'd start asking like digital pastors i know hey where are 00:01:54.140 --> 00:01:59.840 you seeing the the holy spirit tangibly move and uh you know the the digital pastors or or my friends 00:01:59.840 --> 00:02:04.520 or volunteers they would tell me stories and oftentimes i'm listening to their stories and i'm like 00:02:04.520 --> 00:02:11.120 all right is that really that like this holy spirit moving or is that like just a really good system 00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:18.100 that's operating or you know what what's that measuring line between okay that's the holy spirit 00:02:18.100 --> 00:02:23.020 moving versus man we're just working really hard or maybe the holy spirit's moving because we're just 00:02:23.020 --> 00:02:27.720 working hard and that sort of gets into this circular logic that sometimes i get stuck in this is the 00:02:27.720 --> 00:02:31.820 world that i've been in while greg's been asking me hey jeff how have you seen the presence of god 00:02:31.820 --> 00:02:40.020 move through online in this season so uh you know have by the way cory deck is is uh episode 99 we 00:02:40.020 --> 00:02:44.860 actually had a conversation with him because he answered that question in a way that i wasn't 00:02:44.860 --> 00:02:51.900 expecting he said that not 26 people had died in his church in this covid season that's a very powerful 00:02:51.900 --> 00:02:57.760 way to see god move through this covid season and so like he was an example of one of these stories 00:02:57.760 --> 00:03:03.360 that came out of me just uh aggressively asking this question another example that came out of 00:03:03.360 --> 00:03:11.020 me asking this question uh is in the form of alex robinson so alex is a video editor uh here with 00:03:11.020 --> 00:03:17.840 stadia church planning uh an incredible creative uh is very involved much into the the marketing in that 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:23.660 creative group here at stadia by the way has done a ton of work helping churches creating content that's 00:03:23.660 --> 00:03:28.660 helped churches understand how to thrive grow and multiply through our learning communities and 00:03:28.660 --> 00:03:34.560 digital cohorts so you know uh alex man thanks for just being an awesome guy but alex comes in and 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:38.760 sends an email to me based off of me asking this question he's like jeff you know i've been wrestling 00:03:38.760 --> 00:03:44.520 with that and he starts to go into this email thread talking about how well you know what he'll he'll 00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:49.560 explain it he'll set it up but he really started to like open up the can of worms centered around 00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:55.520 okay so we're not seeing it online but are we really seeing it physically or is it just you know 00:03:55.520 --> 00:04:01.040 and i'm a live production guy is it just really good live production with a subwoofer and and haze 00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:06.840 and i don't want to like unravel the wholeness that is is the holy spirit moving through our large 00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:12.960 gatherings as as much as really starting to to question and look at how does the holy spirit move 00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:18.460 in context of what we're doing through our digital churches through our online churches through our 00:04:18.460 --> 00:04:25.180 digital churches here in covid season in the future and and what he's done in the past and so 00:04:25.180 --> 00:04:30.420 schedule this meeting with with alex and about the same time hey why don't why don't we bring in alex's 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:36.900 wife jamie jamie's a digital pastor newly founded in this covid season it's like hey let's make it a 00:04:36.900 --> 00:04:42.300 family affair this is the first time we're bringing in a husband and wife on a podcast here at the church 00:04:42.300 --> 00:04:47.560 digital took 104 for it to make it happen so we're bringing into the conversation alex and jamie 00:04:47.560 --> 00:04:53.340 robinson as well as ray the armis uh digital pastor co-host of course here with the church digital and 00:04:53.340 --> 00:04:59.100 myself uh jeff with the church digital and stadia church planning in a conversation essentially just 00:04:59.100 --> 00:05:05.980 a question that that i really want answered does this holy spirit does the spirit of god move online 00:05:05.980 --> 00:05:12.480 okay everybody here you go uh alex jamie maybe just take a a minute tell us uh individually your 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:19.200 ministry story what what are you doing in ministry today um so i was um uh in campus ministry for a 00:05:19.200 --> 00:05:25.000 little while kind of right out of college and um jamie and i had met in college uh we got married very 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:31.540 early on uh while i was doing campus ministry and then so we went to seminary in tennessee and um 00:05:31.540 --> 00:05:37.400 while we were there we were involved in youth ministry at a church and worship ministry um have 00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:42.480 always been involved in some aspect of worship ministry creative arts ministry um and then while 00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:49.360 we're finishing up uh our our uh master's degree um a position became available at the church that 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:56.120 actually jamie grew up in um here where we live now in uh pennsylvania and so it's the first time that 00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:04.680 they've ever had a full-time creative arts pastor and so uh long story short uh i was able to um step 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:11.880 into that role and uh so at that point we had three boys they were um 17 months apart 17 months apart 00:06:11.880 --> 00:06:18.760 two years old and one year old twins and so life was kind of crazy this crazy whirlwind uh but we've been 00:06:18.760 --> 00:06:25.320 here now eight years um last year um i transitioned into a role with stadia church planning as the 00:06:25.320 --> 00:06:29.960 uh content marketing coordinator um stepping out of that creative arts pastor role and basically doing 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:37.840 video work for stadia um and jamie during that that same time had um kind of started part-time while the 00:06:37.840 --> 00:06:45.160 boys were very young and then just kind of continually i don't like you know she continued to kind of step into 00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:52.000 really how god had gifted her in these different areas and like that just kind of kept being affirmed 00:06:52.000 --> 00:06:58.200 i guess and so now she has a full-time position and you know it's so it's great we still get to work 00:06:58.200 --> 00:07:04.520 together we've always been kind of a ministry team yeah i'm kind of uh um my family's like an early 00:07:04.520 --> 00:07:09.720 tech a doctor so i've been kind of playing around on the computer since i was little and like i had an 00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:14.680 angel fire website that i learned how to code when i was 13 oh my gosh angel fire 00:07:14.680 --> 00:07:20.600 so you had to put your own photos up you know yeah and i talked to too many strangers on the internet 00:07:20.600 --> 00:07:26.640 and it's a miracle that i sit here today i will tell you if i'm honest love you here um but you know 00:07:26.640 --> 00:07:32.740 just kind of cool to see how god took those things um that i was interested in and opened to learning 00:07:32.740 --> 00:07:37.760 and now i get the opportunity to use that which is you know i started kind of back into that world 00:07:37.760 --> 00:07:43.440 um with doing a mom podcast with my friend krista and so we did that like while we're staying at home and 00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:48.360 then when we moved moved up to pennsylvania um i got involved with doing the social media we went to a 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:54.500 big blogging conference out in new york that was like super inspiring to me back in 2012 um and then 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:59.520 that kind of was the catalyst to the social media stuff i started doing our website and thinking more 00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:04.680 critically and so um i kind of shifted into a communications role at the church and then with 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:08.640 covid um and every time they'd ask like what do we need to be thinking about as a church i'm like 00:08:08.640 --> 00:08:15.620 thinking about online like so it's such a potential um for ministry and like what i love about online is 00:08:15.620 --> 00:08:22.100 like you go from like having limited access to the church family to the church body to now like you 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:26.860 have you can find them like 24 7 through the internet so i think that's really cool so i love 00:08:26.860 --> 00:08:31.840 um this new opportunity that i am like kind of just embarking on which is to be the online campus 00:08:31.840 --> 00:08:37.100 pastor for our church it's really cool yeah so you've been uh jamie you've been director for 00:08:37.100 --> 00:08:43.720 three four months at this point just recently got ordained is my understanding that's that's awesome 00:08:43.720 --> 00:08:49.860 i love the fact that your church is is so serious about digital that they're ordaining you and equipping 00:08:49.860 --> 00:08:55.800 you and positioning you in the role that that's an exciting movement yeah i feel really excited um just it's a 00:08:55.800 --> 00:09:01.160 really cool time at our church we're um in a lot of transition um we've we have a rich history 00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:07.140 of ministry and reaching out to the community and so it's really great now um as we move into coming 00:09:07.140 --> 00:09:12.300 out of covid um these new areas that were kind of untapped and we just kind of had waiting in the 00:09:12.300 --> 00:09:18.700 wings so it's really neat to be a part of our our church right now very cool well hey i'm i'm excited 00:09:18.700 --> 00:09:22.780 about this podcast because i actually have no idea how this conversation is going to go it's 00:09:22.780 --> 00:09:26.780 it's it's it's a topic that can go many different directions and let's let's just have some fun and 00:09:26.780 --> 00:09:31.380 see with it so you know we we've talked and actually we kind of stumbled into a podcast 00:09:31.380 --> 00:09:36.560 similar to this topic but completely different i'll get to here in a little bit because i've been 00:09:36.560 --> 00:09:41.640 i've been trying to pull threads to really have this conversation and and alex sent me an email 00:09:41.640 --> 00:09:46.080 and it was like oh my gosh we this is it we're going to explore this topic right here so 00:09:46.080 --> 00:09:50.020 greg nettle president of stadium we've had him here on the podcast he is 00:09:50.020 --> 00:09:57.080 he's famous for asking me a line a question every time he sees me and and it's just it's 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:03.340 with regularity the conversation is something close to hey jeff how have you seen the tangible presence 00:10:03.340 --> 00:10:09.060 of god move in this covid season and and it's been interesting because i don't always have like a 00:10:09.060 --> 00:10:13.880 a solid line towards that and you know i hear like you know churches are doing things and 00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:20.440 and but but but the heart of what what greg's like asking for is is like you know at least my 00:10:20.440 --> 00:10:26.300 impression of it's like these holy spirit chill type of moments where where you're seeing some 00:10:26.300 --> 00:10:33.940 you know some things happen in context of what we're we're doing online and and i'm not saying 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:40.340 it's been absent but i'm saying it's been hard to like really get solid answers towards that and even 00:10:40.340 --> 00:10:47.200 to the point of i would go on to facebook groups and and just like ask random like online ministers 00:10:47.200 --> 00:10:51.900 hey where are you seeing the tangible presence of the holy spirit moving and this is actually 00:10:51.900 --> 00:10:58.060 how we got connected uh with uh episode 99 with the um oh my gosh i'm just blanking on his name 00:10:58.060 --> 00:11:06.980 uh the guy who had like 26 people die in his church as a result of covid and uh cory and cory uh is it 00:11:06.980 --> 00:11:12.480 was his name and he was telling the story he's like yeah we saw the holy spirit move because 26 people 00:11:12.480 --> 00:11:17.940 died and i'm like okay that is totally not the answer that i was expecting that is an incredible podcast 00:11:17.940 --> 00:11:26.560 but that's not what i was expecting to come out of out of this question and so uh i i get this email 00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:32.600 uh from from alex here and alex is saying hey i i struggle and i'm literally reading here from the 00:11:32.600 --> 00:11:40.180 email i struggle with not having the same feeling of transcendence as i do in a large auditorium full 00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:44.340 of people when i'm watching a service online i struggle with not having the same feeling of 00:11:44.340 --> 00:11:50.180 transcendence uh as i do in a large auditorium full of people and so what's interesting in this 00:11:50.180 --> 00:11:55.980 conversation is you've got ray de armis has been a pastor for a long period of time alex you are 00:11:55.980 --> 00:12:02.900 literally among other things a video editor i have a history of live production and uh and jamie is 00:12:02.900 --> 00:12:09.440 coming into the role new uh fresh perspective on things where you know really i really want to 00:12:09.440 --> 00:12:17.800 explore this idea of what we do in the physical realm the chills that transcendence as as you call it 00:12:17.800 --> 00:12:24.320 alex is that is that god is is that holy spirit is that something else what's the what's the 00:12:24.320 --> 00:12:31.480 biblical record what does it look like biblically what what does that come from is it missing online 00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:37.580 is it missing in our services is that a good thing is that a bad thing i don't know and so i just would 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:47.820 love to maybe even explore this this idea of what transcendence is in a online versus physical 00:12:47.820 --> 00:12:54.620 standpoint so i just vomited a bunch of words right there that was awesome what are y'all thinking uh you 00:12:54.620 --> 00:13:00.460 know what's knee-jerk reactions coming off of this yeah i so my question kind of came out of 00:13:00.460 --> 00:13:09.260 um that online completely online experience during covid and then kind of also looking at what other 00:13:09.260 --> 00:13:16.000 churches are doing and realizing that there are those moments that we can experience where we have some 00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:23.560 emotional response um but it was getting you know kind of getting used to um being the church in a 00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:30.200 different way worshiping as a church in a different way um and uh and then kind of along with that 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:37.200 um eugene peterson uh has a book called the pastor and it's like kind of a memoir of his life as a pastor 00:13:37.200 --> 00:13:45.260 and he talks about people looking for transcendence or like he calls it god meaning um in three ways 00:13:45.260 --> 00:13:51.440 kind of outside of the church and it's like drug sex and rock and roll basically although he uses crowds 00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:56.200 instead of rock and roll so he says historically like even in ancient times people would try to find 00:13:56.200 --> 00:14:02.120 like god meaning in crowds and so i've always wrestled with that like connected with a somewhat 00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:08.160 larger church and being a creative arts pastor and now the worship producer at the church part-time 00:14:08.160 --> 00:14:18.600 um you know how how do we we don't want to emotionally manipulate people um but how do we um instead of 00:14:18.600 --> 00:14:25.900 looking for like kind of idolizing that that experience that we have as a crowd how how do we use 00:14:25.900 --> 00:14:31.540 that to point to what we're at our actual truer longing is for that experience of the presence 00:14:31.540 --> 00:14:38.020 of god and and that that feeling that we have together i think is kind of like a sign point 00:14:38.020 --> 00:14:45.900 a post pointing toward that crowd gathered around the heavenly throne you know that that um when we 00:14:45.900 --> 00:14:50.620 have those experiences in a large group and it may not even be in church it may be um at a sporting 00:14:50.620 --> 00:14:57.820 event or like which has been kind of taken away now right too um or a concert um but when we experience 00:14:57.820 --> 00:15:02.900 those kind of moments of transcendence rather than just like throwing them out kind of like peterson 00:15:02.900 --> 00:15:09.760 does i think they can also point us to that that longing that we have uh for what we're this relationship 00:15:09.760 --> 00:15:15.860 that we were created in this place that eventually will be with god um so that's kind of where all that 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:23.660 that came from um you know and kind of thinking through then okay um how how do we how do we have 00:15:23.660 --> 00:15:31.320 those kind of moments or okay so andy stanley talks about how we can't make people fall in love with 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:38.600 jesus but we can set up the date um so like how do we set up the date online is kind of i guess what 00:15:38.600 --> 00:15:45.580 um that question leads toward toward in my mind it's a great question right because scripture talks 00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:50.280 about how we're created holistically in the image of god right so this is kind of where the conversation 00:15:50.280 --> 00:15:56.860 turns a little bit theological right and so some pastors and leaders try to decry the emotional side 00:15:56.860 --> 00:16:02.740 of church because they want it to be more cerebral they want it to be more of a thought oriented kind of a 00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:09.180 thing whereas others really embrace the emotional side to a degree where there's over emphasis on this 00:16:09.180 --> 00:16:14.860 right um it's interesting because our lead pastor was recording some bonus content for us and he was 00:16:14.860 --> 00:16:18.560 bringing up the verse in first corinthians where he talked about where paul talks about how the jews 00:16:18.560 --> 00:16:26.080 seek a sign very emotional right and the greeks look for philosophy very cerebral but we preach 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:34.020 christ crucified which kind of embraces the whole of who we are right and finding that through a digital 00:16:34.020 --> 00:16:41.880 medium i think it can be challenging can't it yeah it's a jamie like how are you guys embracing some 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:47.080 of that like where you guys are at because i think that could be pretty tough yeah i think um we're 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:53.380 really just trying to make sure that all of our online interactions are leading relationally um because 00:16:53.380 --> 00:16:59.760 i think that's really kind of key and how do we help people to break down these barriers um it never 00:16:59.760 --> 00:17:04.820 surprises me you know i'll ask somebody you know how they feel about church online and they'll say oh i 00:17:04.820 --> 00:17:10.120 just don't want to be behind a screen um but some of that i think that's preventing them from having 00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:16.960 that experience and that transcendence transcendence is their comfort level with the medium so like they're 00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:22.440 not super comfortable with online interactions and so you know they'll kind of be more of a spectator 00:17:22.440 --> 00:17:27.780 like they see an online service as let me put it on my web browser and we're just going to sit back and 00:17:27.780 --> 00:17:33.920 watch it um so for us like we try to model some of that relational aspect because that gets people to 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:40.540 open up the relational aspect of you know hosting church online in a group it gets people to be open 00:17:40.540 --> 00:17:47.440 um to build that relationship and to be open to um allowing their relationship with god um to develop 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:52.380 because that's when you start to experience the community when you're willing to be there um i the 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:59.300 thing i keep thinking about whenever someone is like i can't have a real interaction online um i just 00:17:59.300 --> 00:18:08.280 looked up the trends of online dating and online we're now in one in ten people um that are like 00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:13.440 immediately it's like one in ten uh relationships that are married or long-term commitments are starting 00:18:13.440 --> 00:18:20.580 online and as people get younger it's trending upward so i think now it's like 17 is with the younger 00:18:20.580 --> 00:18:28.280 generations of like 18 to 29 age range it was from a october 2019 pew research um thing that i looked at 00:18:28.280 --> 00:18:34.360 but i'm like man if people can fall in love and meet their future spouse online why can't you fall in love 00:18:34.360 --> 00:18:41.860 with god and why can't you experience um the joy and the spirit of god in these moments um so i think 00:18:41.860 --> 00:18:48.600 about that and i kind of use that to say hey if you clear some of these barriers you know maybe it's 00:18:48.600 --> 00:18:55.480 the technology um you might be able to experience that a little bit better and i have a great example 00:18:55.480 --> 00:19:01.420 of um some of a transcendent moment that we got to see somebody had actually filmed it in their living 00:19:01.420 --> 00:19:08.180 room um our church is very interactive with the special needs community in our area and so they 00:19:08.180 --> 00:19:16.160 um a mom had filmed her adult son um just in worship like and he was standing in his living room 00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:23.600 praising lifting his hands and here i'm thinking here's a guy who is is experiencing the spirit of god 00:19:23.600 --> 00:19:29.360 because he doesn't have any of the barriers that a lot of us have he's not worried about oh well i'm 00:19:29.360 --> 00:19:34.480 thinking about the next thing i have to do or he's not worried about the communication or the the 00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:38.320 technology isn't a barrier for him because he's not worried you know he's just not thinking about it 00:19:38.320 --> 00:19:44.240 um but he's really open and ready to receive and hear the word of god and experience what god has 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:49.280 for him in that moment so it's really cool to see that video and see this guy just experiencing the 00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:53.920 presence of god and then also for his mom you know to be able to sit there with him and just see 00:19:53.920 --> 00:20:01.920 how um he's has this relationship with god and is knowing him yeah yeah i love that story and and i'm 00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:07.600 sure there are other stories out there like that it's it's the the unfortunate reality i think in in 00:20:07.600 --> 00:20:16.640 this covid season that um churches rush to launch their services um and that was like the only thing 00:20:16.640 --> 00:20:22.000 they did uh where it's hey let's get our services online okay now we're we're broadcasting our weekend 00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:29.040 services we're good for that one hour on sunday um and and by focusing on the services and maybe not 00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:34.800 the other things that make a church a church we we started creating this idea of a consumer 00:20:35.360 --> 00:20:41.840 where hey let me let me sit back let me sit on the couch let me grab my coffee and and and let me 00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:49.360 watch uh as a as a spectator you know from the the outside what what's happening you know we there's 00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:58.240 there have been conversations about um you know not engaging not getting involved not leaning in but 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:04.400 instead leaning out into it and so i i think a lot of churches have have struggled in this season which is 00:21:04.400 --> 00:21:11.520 partially why i think that we've maybe have have lost a little bit of this because the expectation 00:21:12.320 --> 00:21:17.680 isn't there it's oh let me let me watch this content almost at the same level that i i would 00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:23.840 watch a you know a netflix series or a mandalorian season two which is incredible by the way but set 00:21:23.840 --> 00:21:28.720 that aside i and that's that's almost the sad thing is i may have more i'm going to call myself out 00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:35.360 here i may have more expectation over mandalorian season two than i do walking into the one hour 00:21:35.920 --> 00:21:42.320 on sunday and and i don't know if that's if that's if that's a me thing i don't know if that's you know 00:21:42.320 --> 00:21:47.920 like uh between me and god where i just need need to lean into that but i think there's an opportunity for 00:21:47.920 --> 00:21:58.000 us to expect more from that does that does that relate to any of y'all uh yeah i think kind of along 00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:04.480 with the the relationship and dating lines that we're talking about in some ways it can feel for people 00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:10.160 who are used to if you're not used to worshiping online it can feel almost like being in a long 00:22:10.160 --> 00:22:16.080 distance relationship where you know like even when we were dating uh i was living in indiana for a 00:22:16.080 --> 00:22:22.000 while as an intern and jamie was interning at a place in kentucky and so we talk on the phone every 00:22:22.000 --> 00:22:28.880 night but it's so different you know than like at that point in time um and still is uh you know having 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:35.520 this like long distance relationship versus being face to face and so i think if we can remove as 00:22:35.520 --> 00:22:42.880 many of those barriers as possible for people um and also you know so i think it's kind of like to get 00:22:42.880 --> 00:22:47.200 to your question i think it's kind of a both and like i think that there's a lot of personal like 00:22:47.200 --> 00:22:52.080 individual responsibility that people have in coming to it with that kind of childlike faith 00:22:53.120 --> 00:23:00.160 and expectation um but i think there's also a responsibility uh for our churches uh to to 00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:08.400 really cast a different vision for what online is and and can be and and and i think that that's a 00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:13.920 that's a big deal because so much of what we've done in the past has been so focused on the building 00:23:13.920 --> 00:23:19.200 and getting people to the building and you know whole attractional models and so forth that are just 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:27.200 all about what can happen on campus and in a building um and and built language out to to really 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:34.000 you know get people invested in the building and and now we're at this place where we don't have that 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:38.800 and we've built all this vision casting around a building uh we really need to reshape people's 00:23:38.800 --> 00:23:46.400 vision for what the church is like just continued like clarity on you know the the revolutionary 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:56.720 uh concept that um that like uh god god wants to dwell in us and when paul talks about um you are the the 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:03.040 the temple of god you know in first corinthians he what at one point he's saying us in the the 00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:08.080 individual sense and the next time he says he's talking about you as the church but still as people 00:24:08.080 --> 00:24:14.400 like any metaphor that's used for a uh a building in scripture is about the people you know and so 00:24:15.040 --> 00:24:22.960 um i don't think we lose anything by going online or having to be the church online but uh i think part 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:27.840 of the grief that we can experience or that we've had people experience is just everything that they've 00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:33.520 known and that we've maybe as a church um you know kind of shaped their thinking around a building as 00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:40.240 opposed to no you are that building uh that god's you know building into the church i want to dig into 00:24:40.240 --> 00:24:45.440 that point a little bit there alex and and jeff jamie you guys chime in as well because you guys have 00:24:45.440 --> 00:24:51.040 been on the experiential creation side of it like i i come from more like the pastoral side where we're 00:24:51.040 --> 00:24:54.640 focused just on the teaching like yeah we want to talk with the worship leaders about some of the 00:24:54.640 --> 00:24:58.720 other stuff but we're focused just on the teaching and even the guest experience and some of that other 00:24:58.720 --> 00:25:03.680 stuff but talk about how like the building plays a factor in that you know in modern times we've got 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:08.800 blacked out theaters so all the focus is on this moment we've got kids environments so that the kids 00:25:08.800 --> 00:25:13.760 are away or even more traditional churches where it's stained glass windows and things that kind of 00:25:13.760 --> 00:25:20.320 point to awe and wonder whereas our homes are built for functionality and family and then especially 00:25:20.320 --> 00:25:24.560 in this season we got kids running around in the back and so it doesn't allow for the the environment 00:25:24.560 --> 00:25:30.960 doesn't really allow for focus and being in the moment to have that kind of transcendence or am i wrong 00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:36.720 well i think one of the things that we need to not be afraid of is kind of blowing up some of our 00:25:36.720 --> 00:25:43.120 traditional notions around about when we worship like we online we don't have to worship at nine 00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:47.520 o'clock and ten you know if you want to gather with people online yeah but if you really need that 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:52.800 spiritual time maybe that means that you watch at 7 p.m on a sunday night when somebody's there to help 00:25:52.800 --> 00:25:57.200 with the kids and you have time to kind of really connect with it um that's i think that's one of 00:25:57.200 --> 00:26:03.040 the interesting things that i'm trying to break through is kind of my preconceived notions of how 00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:09.120 church should be done and and then kind of taking that to you know the online platform of what does 00:26:09.120 --> 00:26:15.280 this mean now that we're digital and we have that 24 7 access and i mean i love that you um mentioned 00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:22.240 the temple and some of that like worship um you know moments because i'm thinking about i i feel like 00:26:23.120 --> 00:26:29.040 i felt like more of a consumer when i'm in a physical space than i do when i'm in a digital space 00:26:29.040 --> 00:26:36.640 and i think that the reason why i would say is that because if this is kind of a rough uh illustration but 00:26:36.640 --> 00:26:44.800 i would say like physical worship is very easy to be two-dimensional um unless i'm willing to um to 00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:50.080 participate and so like i still have that option of like not really participating and i can sit there 00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:57.600 and be observing and critiquing um what's going on um but when i do decide to engage online can be 00:26:57.600 --> 00:27:03.440 three-dimensional because you can be more of an active participant in what's happening real time so 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:09.200 like if i decide to participate in the chat or i decide to not just sing the worship songs but i'm 00:27:09.200 --> 00:27:14.640 actually like talking about oh this story meant so much to me when we were going through our adoption 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:20.800 like i love this song and be able to test share my testimony um that's an opportunity that i would 00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:28.160 never have in a regular physical worship service so i think that kind of is in some ways you get this veil 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:33.200 that's being lifted that's being torn that was there in the physical space because it's just like we 00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:38.480 shouldn't talk in church you know and the certain things that are good things that we do um in those 00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:44.240 physical spaces but now in this online space there's this third dimension that we can really explore 00:27:44.240 --> 00:27:49.600 and open up that will allow people opportunities to worship in ways that they've had to repress or hold 00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:57.440 back um in a physical space yeah jay granda talks a lot about that and we've had him on the podcast 00:27:57.440 --> 00:28:02.720 here talking about the idea of four pillars uh for for church online and basically it's four 00:28:02.960 --> 00:28:09.200 different methods or size groups that you can utilize with online but once we get past just 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:15.360 broadcasting our services online there's a much more richer tapestry that we can utilize to develop 00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:20.880 the strategy so things like hey you know what yeah you you can broadcast the services and call that like 00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:28.160 a an online a large gathering but there's also an opportunity to gather people in social space like 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:35.920 a 20 20 to 25 people uh you know daniel m calls it i think social space but like that size of a gathering 00:28:36.480 --> 00:28:42.400 even uh physically fidgetally digital only there's an opportunity and you can kind of get that feel 00:28:42.400 --> 00:28:48.480 sometimes in facebook groups where you're in um it's maybe it's a larger number of people but you can 00:28:48.480 --> 00:28:55.440 interact in that social space area in that way uh jay talks about like the opportunity to do even small 00:28:55.440 --> 00:29:01.840 groups maybe it's like 10 people six to 10 people uh maybe even as small as like one to three people 00:29:01.840 --> 00:29:08.160 engaging if it's more like a core discipleship group or something but now you're you're engaging and 00:29:08.160 --> 00:29:16.160 conversing with with people at that uh and jay also talks about like self-directed where maybe it's it's a 00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:22.400 platform that's giving you the ability to or you're listening you know ray's earlier analogy of 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:28.480 listening to a song on spotify hill song that just hits you in the right moment in the right way and 00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:33.840 you're feeling you know the presence of god moving i think i think as a church we were really driven 00:29:33.840 --> 00:29:39.680 towards creating that one method but we weren't necessarily realizing okay there's other methods 00:29:39.680 --> 00:29:45.280 there's other ways there's other vehicles um and as much as we really want to engage with the people 00:29:45.280 --> 00:29:50.160 within our services we're forgetting there's opportunities to engage outside of the services 00:29:50.160 --> 00:29:58.480 to really try to capitalize on the other 167 so um uh ray uh jamie as as you guys are doing digital 00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:03.520 ministry are you what does it look like to kind of capitalize on some of those other pillars or some of the 00:30:03.520 --> 00:30:11.760 other opportunities of the 167 to really engage with people so for us um really being more keyed into 00:30:11.760 --> 00:30:17.760 creating an experience that was really going to connect with people was something that especially 00:30:17.760 --> 00:30:22.800 as covid started that we really started keying in more because beforehand we were kind of slapping 00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:28.880 our you know live experience together and kind of throwing that up for online we were able to create 00:30:28.880 --> 00:30:34.400 unique worship experiences where there was more engagement with the camera um and even going 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.360 back a little old school and having a few sundays where we threw a choir that was socially distant 00:30:39.360 --> 00:30:44.400 like in the back and you know recording them and mixing it in right and that kind of thing 00:30:44.400 --> 00:30:49.840 lended a lot more to it because it gave a lot more of that hill song united type five where there's more 00:30:49.840 --> 00:30:56.080 people in the room yeah and you know and for all of us who are kind of musicians and churchill recognizes 00:30:56.080 --> 00:31:00.400 so like when the bridge hits and it's supposed to be that moment where it's like all hands up and 00:31:00.400 --> 00:31:04.160 you know that the build-ups headed that direction you really felt a lot more of that at home 00:31:04.720 --> 00:31:09.200 and so and especially with those songs that you know you're going to connect with like you know 00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:19.520 the blessing or here again you know those songs that you that are almost like every worship leader is looking at their list and they're like this is the one this is the one that people are for sure going to capitalize on and so even online 00:31:19.520 --> 00:31:26.000 we saw a lot more people posting and sharing the videos of that experience than even of the message 00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:33.120 you know because it connected with them in such a big way and big props you know to andy hernandez 00:31:33.120 --> 00:31:38.880 and and ben stapley you know on our team who were really keyed in on all right how can we make sure 00:31:38.880 --> 00:31:45.520 that this is a real worshipful experience for people at home and then making sure that our chat hosts 00:31:45.520 --> 00:31:51.600 we're making we're engaging with people in the same way just like what jamie was talking about in that 3d 00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:59.120 experience so that it wasn't just watch it was also participate here and be part of active conversation 00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:04.480 so it's not a simple answer in the sense of hey we just put up the broadcast and went with it 00:32:04.480 --> 00:32:08.880 it's also okay so on the back end how is it experiential for people as well how are they 00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:14.880 receiving it how are they sharing it how how was some of that going on is there a challenge of i mean 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:21.600 matthew 18 i don't want to go biblical here but it's the where two or three are gathered together 00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:26.320 it's a church podcast maybe i should go biblical i'll literally call it the church digital podcast 00:32:26.320 --> 00:32:33.120 maybe i should actually quote the bible digital you're okay okay uh where two or three are gathered 00:32:33.120 --> 00:32:41.920 in in my name um you know and so like i will be there so what how do we how do we justify how do we 00:32:41.920 --> 00:32:47.280 rectify how do we explain hey ray you're feeling the the presence of god while you're you're you're 00:32:47.280 --> 00:32:52.720 stuck in traffic on the turnpike uh listen and you're jamming out the hill song where that right 00:32:52.720 --> 00:32:57.440 song hits you in the right moment when you know the the the spirits got you at the right place but 00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:04.480 you're you're you're alone in your car um um some of the more worshipful expressions the the presence 00:33:04.480 --> 00:33:10.160 of god that i felt in my own life in this coveted season has been when i've been alone at my desk or 00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:18.720 i'm in a zoom with six people scattered across the country um and so how does how do we rectify this 00:33:18.720 --> 00:33:25.360 whole two or three gather in my name in in a in a digital context well you know you know what's 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:30.000 interesting about that is sometimes i worry as kind of i think what's already been declared on this 00:33:30.000 --> 00:33:35.600 podcast that we share that we chase the group experience a little too much you know um 00:33:35.600 --> 00:33:43.200 for better or worse if this is you out there my apologies i love you um you know sometimes i ask 00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.720 folks whenever they're clamoring man we're gonna go see hillsong live tonight like on the same sunday 00:33:46.720 --> 00:33:50.960 as church i'm like guys we're experiencing the same thing that you're looking for there they'll skip 00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:54.640 church and they'll run to that concert experience because they believe that they're going to get 00:33:54.640 --> 00:33:58.400 church in some kind of way there and i understand the transcendence of singing especially in miami with 00:33:58.400 --> 00:34:04.880 other believers across the city there's validity in that but don't forget the context in which we're 00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:11.280 at in the local church now that being said because we can't chase the individual side either where 00:34:11.280 --> 00:34:16.320 sometimes we try to make christianity a little too individualistic but we can't disregard the individual 00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:21.600 side as well and that you know we'll emphasize especially you know hey i come from traditional 00:34:21.600 --> 00:34:27.200 southern baptist background we emphasize on that quiet time a whole lot in terms of devotional and 00:34:27.200 --> 00:34:33.280 prayer some of that can be worship as well and so i got a little scripture here for you jeff right like 00:34:33.280 --> 00:34:37.760 because i knew that this question was coming in john chapter 3 right verse 8 where jesus says 00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:42.240 the wind blows and referring to the spirit wherever it pleases you hear it sound but you cannot tell 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:47.280 where it comes from or where it's going and so it is with everyone born in the spirit and so 00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:51.600 there are times where yeah in a small group or even in a small home gathering watching the service 00:34:52.320 --> 00:34:57.040 and the spirit can hit you at the right moment you're overwhelmed and this is what 00:34:57.040 --> 00:35:02.160 what happens or there are times in the quiet of our car where much like elijah in the old testament 00:35:02.160 --> 00:35:05.920 where hey there was the sound of thunder and rumbling off in the distance but the lord wasn't 00:35:05.920 --> 00:35:11.680 there but then a still small voice hits yeah and we're overcome by the presence of god 00:35:12.480 --> 00:35:18.880 and we feel him moving in our lives in a very significant way in that moment and so as christians 00:35:19.920 --> 00:35:25.120 and this has always been my fear because i because of my background that i just talked about i was kind 00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:31.200 of fear treading to the emotional side but i don't want to be so cerebral about it that i ignore it 00:35:31.200 --> 00:35:39.120 either because i don't want to ignore god speaking in my life in a real sense yeah just because i'm 00:35:39.120 --> 00:35:45.840 wondering and i'm fighting it with what's going on up here yeah and so that that's just for me you know 00:35:45.840 --> 00:35:52.400 and uh and you know i don't know uh jamie alex you guys got any thoughts on that that's just that's 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:57.600 just some of the stuff that i've encountered yeah i i like it kind of makes me think too like i love 00:35:57.600 --> 00:36:02.720 what you're saying and and the idea of the still small voice you know that it's not in the earthquake 00:36:02.720 --> 00:36:10.160 god's not in the fire he's not in the whirlwind but in that still small voice and um i was thinking 00:36:10.160 --> 00:36:17.120 about how you know when when paul's writing these letters to these early churches there may be a 00:36:17.120 --> 00:36:21.920 number of christians like spread across the whole city but by and large they're in house churches you 00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:27.840 know they're they're in small gatherings of people and you know like uh again kind of back to 00:36:27.840 --> 00:36:35.520 first corinthians man we're like all in the bible um uh he you know he's they're having this this 00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:41.200 crazy kind of back and forth on you know kind of what should happen in the their worship gatherings 00:36:41.200 --> 00:36:47.360 and he basically gets to the point where like he really he says in first corinthians 14 he'd much 00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:52.480 prefer them to kind of hear the truth of god so that so that if an unbeliever comes into the 00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:58.000 to their gathering then uh he says like the secrets of their heart will be laid bare 00:36:58.000 --> 00:37:05.040 and they'll fall on their knees exclaiming god is really among you and you know it it doesn't that's 00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:10.640 not uh you know he's not talking about walking into this thousand person gathering or whatever he's 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:18.240 talking about coming to somebody's house you know and and taking in the you know the truth of god 00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:25.840 and it and it it doing what it does like dividing you know to to join and morrow uh to paraphrase and 00:37:25.840 --> 00:37:33.680 and like you know searching out the secrets of our heart and and making us realize that god is at work 00:37:33.680 --> 00:37:40.080 um even today and i think that can happen in an online gathering just as easily as it can or not just 00:37:40.080 --> 00:37:45.200 even in a like again we're talking about like large gathering kind of thing but i think in all those 00:37:45.200 --> 00:37:52.320 different spaces there are ways in which that can happen as well um and and i think that that's so 00:37:52.320 --> 00:38:00.000 important to to not lose sight of yeah i think the um authenticity piece and in being willing to be open 00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:07.040 to experiencing god and to hear god in no matter what how we're choosing to engage whether we're 00:38:07.040 --> 00:38:12.560 physically on a campus whether we're behind a screen whether we're in a small group but just being 00:38:12.560 --> 00:38:18.560 willing that god could show up here um you know i i think about times that i've had like the spirit 00:38:18.560 --> 00:38:23.280 move and there was one time i was like not a runner i was doing one of those couch to 5k things and 00:38:23.280 --> 00:38:27.840 i'm running i'm listening to my worship music and i just like just the spirit of god was just with me 00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:33.360 and i just started crying so i like crying and running it was just you know but you know ever since that 00:38:33.360 --> 00:38:40.800 moment i think that happened because i was already engaging with god um and talking to him while i was 00:38:40.800 --> 00:38:45.680 trying to run or while i was trying to do whatever and so you know i think if we can get these barriers 00:38:45.680 --> 00:38:52.800 out of the way and as you know online campus pastors and even church pastors no matter what your role is 00:38:52.800 --> 00:38:58.560 if we can make an effort to help people to remove some of these barriers to say god can show up in a zoom 00:38:58.560 --> 00:39:05.200 group god can show up on an online um thing god can show up in a facebook group um if we can if we can 00:39:05.200 --> 00:39:10.400 help them to see that and clear those barriers away i think it's going to be really cool to see how god 00:39:10.400 --> 00:39:16.240 just uses the power of the internet um to explode and i think about like you know what dj soto does for 00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:21.600 me that's kind of one of my barriers is the virtual reality i love the idea of it but i know for my 00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:27.520 boys that's not going to be a barrier for them like they watched a fortnight dj marshmallow concert and 00:39:27.520 --> 00:39:32.000 they're like that was so cool it was awesome you know and they're just jumping up and down but that 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:37.920 was that was an experience for them and so i get excited when i think about what you know dj soto's 00:39:37.920 --> 00:39:43.120 doing and all these virtual reality things and even how even in twitch and all the gaming platforms 00:39:43.920 --> 00:39:50.000 and how the future is kind of more open to these online relationships online moments um where people can 00:39:50.000 --> 00:39:54.560 experience the presence of god i get really excited about that because i know that my kids 00:39:54.560 --> 00:39:58.960 are going to look for it there yeah no i was just going to agree with jamie i mean i found that 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:05.200 oftentimes i meet with god while i'm individual when i'm when i'm you know you said running like that's 00:40:05.200 --> 00:40:10.400 that for me is like an easy time to just kind of focus in on who god is and kind of shut off 00:40:11.040 --> 00:40:16.160 the rest of the world in a world that's so busy but also you know as you were pointing 00:40:16.160 --> 00:40:21.280 towards our kids and just kind of how they experience not just content but how content can 00:40:21.280 --> 00:40:26.720 really drive you in a specific to an emotion or in a direction and then in community right like 00:40:27.520 --> 00:40:35.520 that's powerful in terms of how a lot of that is going to form the future in terms of discipleship and 00:40:35.520 --> 00:40:41.840 particularly in worship right because kids aren't just going to want the experience there on sunday 00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:46.880 they're going to say what else you got because they're getting it everywhere else right yeah 00:40:46.880 --> 00:40:52.880 there's definitely a a challenge i think for the church to to step up holistically to embrace beyond 00:40:52.880 --> 00:41:01.680 the um the one hour on sunday to to i just even even virtual reality that to to make the commitment to 00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:06.000 get in there dj soto i mean i love the fact that we've said his name like six times in this podcast 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:12.960 um but but but the reality the reality is is the only because i've been in the meetings where i've 00:41:12.960 --> 00:41:18.720 had the conversations with church leaders talking about dj soto and and the reality is is the majority 00:41:18.720 --> 00:41:26.400 of people don't recognize that the spirit can move in places like virtual reality like that still is is a 00:41:26.400 --> 00:41:33.520 is a controversial concept you know the idea of two or three that are gathered is taken in physical 00:41:33.520 --> 00:41:39.600 context and they're not recognizing digital community as a community worthy to which really gets interesting 00:41:39.600 --> 00:41:48.640 because you know church leaders would say it's not but the people who are like doing virtual reality 00:41:48.640 --> 00:41:55.520 or even digital disciples making discipleship are saying okay while you're saying that you were not 00:41:55.520 --> 00:42:00.480 allowed that god's not moving in this space we're showing you specific stories and testimonies of how 00:42:00.480 --> 00:42:08.000 god is in fact moving in this area even though you're saying it can't happen um which is really interesting 00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:14.560 like how how do we quantify hey god's moving in virtual reality even though like major nationally 00:42:14.560 --> 00:42:21.520 recognized church leaders are like no that's that's that's not that's not good um anyway it's it's 00:42:21.520 --> 00:42:26.640 being a guy that's usually like pushing the the edge of the limits and and and kind of helping those 00:42:26.640 --> 00:42:32.320 people on the bleeding edge it's awesome to kind of celebrate and to see those wins and it's exhausting 00:42:32.320 --> 00:42:41.920 because you kind of get beat up along the way with that so how how do you how do we reconcile hey like 00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:49.760 god's doing stuff in virtual reality god's doing things through digital only church um interpretation of 00:42:49.760 --> 00:42:55.760 scripture may lean one way instead of you know maybe addressing it for for the other way what how do we 00:42:55.760 --> 00:43:03.520 reconcile that you know scripturally biblically personally yeah i think it's uh at least from my 00:43:03.520 --> 00:43:10.560 standpoint i think it's um incarnational theology and that by that i mean you know god chose to take on 00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:19.920 human flesh as a first century jewish man um and work through that culture that context um so that 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:27.520 people could know him and come into a relationship with him and he does that same thing constantly and 00:43:27.520 --> 00:43:34.560 throughout time like not just through jesus but uh continually um right into the present day like when 00:43:34.560 --> 00:43:42.720 when you think about um the way in which we're really kind of translating church into a different context 00:43:42.720 --> 00:43:50.240 and i think it's a really incarnational thing to do um and and so like just as an example um like ezra 00:43:50.240 --> 00:43:56.080 nehemiah there was like a time where the people again they hadn't heard the word of god like in 00:43:56.080 --> 00:44:02.400 forever and so they're like the priests are like reading the word of god and and somebody then is 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:07.840 translating at the same time into the language that they can understand and they actually have this 00:44:07.840 --> 00:44:12.400 emotional response they're crying you know they're they're weeping and they're like you know doing the 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:17.840 whole old testament like tear their clothes and you know repent and sackcloth and ashes kind of thing 00:44:18.400 --> 00:44:26.080 and um god you know continues to do that throughout time like kind of uh come to people where they're at 00:44:26.080 --> 00:44:32.480 in the language that they speak um in the cultural context that they're in um you know even the new 00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:39.920 testament is written not in some you know like high style classical greek it's written in the greek 00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:47.120 language of the everyday because it's talking to everyday people you know and if god can translate himself 00:44:47.120 --> 00:44:54.560 into you know uh that common greek certainly he's going to use zeros and ones and whatever else you 00:44:54.560 --> 00:45:02.000 know web uh you know html and you know whatever else to to speak to us today because that's where we're 00:45:02.000 --> 00:45:10.160 at um and so i think for us it's kind of finding how how do we get with that how do we how do we go to 00:45:10.160 --> 00:45:16.160 where god is working in the common everyday language in common everyday settings whether it's 00:45:16.160 --> 00:45:23.600 web vr whatever it is that we're experiencing today i think the uh great commission is really simple 00:45:23.600 --> 00:45:29.520 it's go and make disciples not go to some other country or go to some state go to some physical 00:45:29.520 --> 00:45:34.880 place it's just to go and so we just need to be looking for these places where people are gathering 00:45:35.520 --> 00:45:41.600 and that's where we go and so yeah the real estate's digital right now and that's the technology that 00:45:41.600 --> 00:45:46.880 we're dealing with and you know maybe 50 60 years from now lord willing there's a new mode of 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:50.560 communication that's out there maybe it's like holograms or something i don't know like i don't 00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:56.400 want to get too sci-fi on you but you know but the call is still to go and make disciples so we've got to 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:04.080 not be resistant and if we don't go who will love all of that is there and i don't i don't know the 00:46:04.080 --> 00:46:08.720 answer to this and like i said i'm the i'm the bleeding edge guy is there a line where it's too 00:46:08.720 --> 00:46:14.080 far i mean this is the type of thing that i wrestle with um some some of the crazy conversations that 00:46:14.080 --> 00:46:18.560 i'm having right now and we'll we'll reconcile it later dj soto is going to come on the podcast and 00:46:18.560 --> 00:46:22.560 in december and we're gonna we're gonna have some fun talking about this but you know um 00:46:23.920 --> 00:46:30.720 what's what's what's the game called mmo uh game uh final fantasy 14 final fantasy 14 is actually 00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:38.640 10 years old it was it was created in 2010 there are still 22 million people who are actively playing 00:46:38.640 --> 00:46:44.560 this game online uh not because they want to beat up the the big bad but because that's where their 00:46:44.560 --> 00:46:50.800 community and that's where their their friends are and that and i just i look at that and i'm like 00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:58.240 there's 22 million people who play a video game because that's where they find community um you know 00:46:58.240 --> 00:47:04.160 how can we create church in those communities now the church in those communities and i was i was 00:47:04.160 --> 00:47:10.480 actually talking with uh uh an mmo gamer yesterday who's interested in planting that and not in final 00:47:10.480 --> 00:47:17.120 fantasy but in another video game and and it's it looks different it's not i you know and i talk 00:47:17.120 --> 00:47:22.960 with her about what her church is um and and i'm listening to her i'm like you know you're probably 00:47:22.960 --> 00:47:27.360 i don't know that you're going to get like the the the chills i don't know that you're going to get 00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:35.680 that from a uh from a church that's in an mmo video game but when i look at the potential of what 00:47:35.680 --> 00:47:41.600 you could do in mmo i think that it may look different but i still think it aligns with what 00:47:41.600 --> 00:47:51.120 you could do um biblically what we're called to be in the ecclesiology uh that that we're called to be as 00:47:51.120 --> 00:47:57.120 the church so anyway it's really fascinating is there i'm just curious because i always like 00:47:57.120 --> 00:48:05.760 asking crazy questions is is there a line or is it trust god and see what he does like how do we 00:48:05.760 --> 00:48:12.240 proceed forward into things like this where where where is too far that's that's a fascinating thing 00:48:12.240 --> 00:48:17.920 right because we're living in an era of video teaching for instance like i i have i i come from 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:22.560 a video teaching church jeff you know your family attends a video teaching church and then alex and 00:48:22.560 --> 00:48:26.400 jamie i saw that you guys do multi-site i don't know if that's your primary form of teaching or not 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:34.480 but um but that right there is interesting in terms of hey jeff you communicate to her hey i 00:48:34.480 --> 00:48:37.200 don't know if this could happen i remember once upon a time we were saying that with video teaching 00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:43.200 hey i don't know how people will respond to this if the guy is not on the stage i don't know if 00:48:43.200 --> 00:48:49.920 the message will be conveyed in the same way and yet here we are you know almost 20 years later 00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:55.120 right and we've got lots of folks coming to christ and now we got lots of folks coming to christ online 00:48:55.120 --> 00:48:59.920 and making you know kind of like what jamie alluded to earlier in terms of relationship decisions like 00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:04.720 long-term binding eternal decisions you know in terms of their relationship with jesus 00:49:05.360 --> 00:49:11.920 so is it possible that they could experience the emotional there absolutely is there a line uh yeah 00:49:11.920 --> 00:49:17.200 but there's a i think there's a line also with in-person experiences too where we can where we 00:49:17.200 --> 00:49:22.400 should be careful and we should take caution in terms of how manipulative we can be in terms of a 00:49:22.400 --> 00:49:27.600 of a service to lead people down the wrong path in terms of their relationship with jesus 00:49:29.120 --> 00:49:33.760 and that's where you know there's a number of different churches that have arisen or even 00:49:33.760 --> 00:49:38.560 denominations that have arisen almost based on that right where they've taken people down the wrong 00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:44.800 path based on emotion both christian and otherwise right um shoot i don't know if any of you have 00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:50.400 seen the documentary on tony robbins but man borderline folks are there uh you know having emotional 00:49:50.400 --> 00:49:56.960 experiences but at the same time it's not a christian event and so we have to be careful in terms 00:49:56.960 --> 00:50:01.040 of how we're doing that as well alex game any thoughts on that um i was just thinking about 00:50:01.040 --> 00:50:06.480 you know especially i'm not much of a gamer other than like i think i stopped with like lego batman 00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:14.560 um but you know like i think and i'd love to see these i hope to see them soon um some of these 00:50:14.560 --> 00:50:21.440 online gaming i'd like to see how it works because my question would be how do you have a christ-focused 00:50:22.080 --> 00:50:28.480 gathering in those spaces um where you are worshiping together because at some point like 00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:33.840 when are you worshiping the game or the thing that the commonality that brings you together and when 00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:38.880 does that become we're gathered together for jesus like we're gathered together because god's on the 00:50:38.880 --> 00:50:45.360 throne um wherever that place is that would be my question um in any space is how do we make sure that 00:50:46.160 --> 00:50:53.280 those gatherings are christ-focused um whether they stem out of any other topic or commonality i think 00:50:53.280 --> 00:50:58.720 that's cool but it's got to be jesus focused at some point love love that it's got i mean obviously 00:50:58.720 --> 00:51:04.880 christ-centered towards it hey uh yes we're running short on time and so let's i want to go ahead and 00:51:04.880 --> 00:51:11.680 and wrap the plane uh land the plane wrap up a man mixing totally mixing analogies here not a good 00:51:11.680 --> 00:51:16.560 podcast day uh we're crashing the plane at this point i guess because we've had too many 00:51:16.560 --> 00:51:24.640 too many mixed drinks um alex jamie uh thank you for uh for jumping on on the podcast here for for 00:51:24.640 --> 00:51:29.200 alex for jamie for ray this is jeff at the church digital and stadia church planning thanks for 00:51:29.200 --> 00:51:32.880 joining us here on the pod and we'll see you next time here at the show y'all have a good day