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 All right. Hey, you got episode 107 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planting.

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 Man, I love saying that, powered by Stadia Church Planting.

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 It's been an awesome, wrapping up our first year here with the Church Digital, with me, Jeff Reed, working at Stadia as their director of digital church planting.

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 And I love what I get to do where we're helping Stadia and myself, we are helping plant digital-only expressions of church.

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 We're working with a cohort, four planters right now, who are out there getting ready to plant, to launch, to start these digital communities, to reach physical people.

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 It's awesome. Love it. So much is coming out of this.

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 If you're interested in more about what digital planting looks like or how Stadia can help you plant your digital church, do me a favor.

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 Go to this website, thechurch.digital slash planting, thechurch.digital slash planting.

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 On there, there's tons of blogs, podcasts, interviews, videos, resources, streams, even an e-book you can read that teaches you about what a digital church plant,

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 a digital-only expression of church could be, and how you can plant it.

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 Phenomenal, phenomenal stuff, even though it gives you access to get connected with Stadia so that you can be part of the cohort and so that Stadia can help you launch this digital-only expression of church.

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 So somebody out there, you're wrestling with this.

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 Take an opportunity and let Stadia come along and help you plant that digital-only church.

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 By the way, we're going to be talking a lot in this podcast about digital-only church planting.

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 As a matter of fact, we're bringing in Jade Earhart.

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 Jade's probably one of my favorite guests that we've ever had here on the podcast.

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 Super chill guy, really knows his stuff, has a church staff background.

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 He's really in history as a video editor, but really has had this passion to utilize digital methods to connect with video gamers.

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 And it's a whole, I mean, I hesitate to call it, but I'll go and say it, an unreached people group of video gamers in America.

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 There's an opportunity to really tap in and to reach this generation, this group, this demographic of people that really have never set foot into the building,

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 nor will they ever set foot into the building.

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 And so Jade stepped up and launched a church, a digital-only expression of church, called Love Clan.

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 Now, you can actually go back through past episodes.

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 We have pretty much documented from day one the launch of his church.

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 I think the first podcast we ever did with him, he was debating whether or not to actually do this.

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 Like he had not actually committed towards launching this church.

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 And we've just, through three, four, five, six different podcast episodes probably, really documented his growth process of how he went from not sure if he was going to launch a church,

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 to launching a church, to creating disciples, to now shifting and evolving that ministry as he's learned more about what a digital-only church needs to be.

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 And maybe overcoming some of the challenges that he was facing.

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 And so phenomenal conversation, super chill.

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 At the beginning, the guy's like eating lunch, and we're literally sitting down just talking, just so relaxed in this.

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 And it's one of the reasons I love Jade and love the ministry that he's doing.

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 So, hey, for this conversation, we are bringing in, like I said, Jade Earhart, I guess lead pastor.

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 Let's just call him the guy that's running Love Clan.

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 And myself, Jeff with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planting.

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 In a conversation that I'm simply calling the different type of person that you reach running a digital church.

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 Okay, everybody.

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 Here y'all go.

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 Catch me up a little bit then here.

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 Like, what's going on in life?

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 What's ministry looking like?

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 What's the story here behind Love Clan?

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 Well, yeah, like Love Clan's doing well.

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 And a good portion of Love Clan was the Discord.

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 And I think right now I'm in a, like a trial period, or not even a trial period at this point.

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 But I would say that that was the goal, was when I moved, I was just going to try streaming and see what happened with that.

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 And I set everything up.

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 Like, I have a really nice setup now, but I kind of started to set this up.

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 I set up the TV and some basic stuff.

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 And then that, the day that I was going to go live on Mixer, which was my main live streaming platform, it, like, it died.

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 The day I set it up.

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 And I said it was actually awkward because if I had found out that Mixer had died a day earlier, I wouldn't have set things up for live stream.

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 I would have set up this whole room differently.

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 And if it had been a day afterwards, I would have already been streaming on Mixer.

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 And I might have just been like, what's the point then?

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 And just quit.

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 But because I had already set it all up and hadn't had the chance to, like, go through the process of setting a Mixer, I said, well, I'm going to use it.

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 Like, I'm not going to just have that time be wasted.

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 So I might as well go back to Twitch.

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 And so I, like, tried Twitch.

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 And it's been, I mean, it's been great since then.

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 And that, I didn't expect for it to be my, like, full-time thing at the time that I started doing it.

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 But just found other people that I could connect with who were in the same mindset.

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 And that's continued from then.

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 And so Love Clan as a Discord is somewhat in a, like, self-sustaining mode.

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 And if it was really declining without me, I think I would be more like, I need to do a whole lot there.

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 But as a community, it's still, like, what it is.

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 And it's really been a community for a long time.

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 So, like, there's a lot of people in there that are able to help keep that going.

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 But I've needed this time to really, like, explore a new avenue, which was streaming on Twitch.

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 And that's where I'm seeing a lot of growth.

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 So, you know, that's kind of where I'm at with it.

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 So, you, I mean, you had, Love Clan previously was, like, last time we talked, you were doing the disciple-making.

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 You were doing the four, you know, the four fields, the three-thirds.

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 You were doing that kind of E3 disciple-making process.

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 And you're doing that in digital space.

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 Are you telling me, you know, even before we get to the streaming,

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 are you telling me you got to the place where, like, that disciple-making process digitally is now replicating itself to the point that you've let it go and it's kind of operating on its own?

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 I'd say for a while it was.

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 I wish I could say that it was just, like, spiraling out of control and I don't even need to be there anymore and, you know, so on and so forth.

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 That'd be the dream.

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 I can't say that's true in good faith.

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 But it's more like this whole thing is very experimental as is.

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 And so our, more where it's at is I realized that it's actually not that hard to get gamers, Christian gamers, into a Christian Bible study.

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 Christian gamers into a Christian gaming Bible study is not even that, it's not even that difficult.

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 And, like, if you message a couple of Christians and say, like, hey, would you like to study the Bible together?

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 Then, like, they might join.

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 They might not keep going, though, and it may not really be life transformational.

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 And I say that with as much, like, grit as I can because it's, like, that sort of was the thought is, like, how can I get as many Christian gamers into a Discord as possible so that we could have these, like, Bible studies and that would be really meaningful because we'll have these Bible studies and we can do them online and across borders.

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 I still believe that.

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 I still think that's important.

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 And I think even more important was the discipleship factor of that, which was the idea that they would then start groups and that they would tell their friends and that they would grow and so on.

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 And we tried that for a while and we had, I think we had, like, four groups at one point in time.

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 But once I started streaming, I just saw ways that we could start to reach people.

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 From the beginning, I had in the step cuts, which is something we talked about earlier, but, like, a long time ago.

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 But the very first step in our step cuts, which are taking a next step for the thing is, like, each step leads up to another step.

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 And so if you can't tell what the next step somebody should take is, then they probably won't know what it is.

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 And that first step was always live streaming.

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 Like, an atheist would watch my live stream and would be interested in that community.

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 And so then they would get plugged into the Discord.

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 That's, like, always been there, even before we did live streaming as a thing.

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 It just was the natural process isn't that somebody would first join your Discord.

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 They would first watch Twitch.

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 That's just how, like, how it just normally happens.

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 And I would add a step in there before that now that somebody would, I would play a game with somebody.

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 And they liked the way I communicated or they liked the way I played or they liked the way that I interacted with them in some way that led them that they were like,

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 Oh, I'd be willing to watch that guy's stream.

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 And if your name is JateLive on the game, then they assume you're a streamer and they go watch your live stream.

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 And that person would then say, Oh, like, I really like the community here.

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 I like this atmosphere.

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 I like the vibes that are going on.

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 And then they might go to the Discord.

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 So it's kind of like there's still that progression.

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 And we just, I think we needed a solid community in Discord first before that would make sense to be that ramp on.

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 And so all that to say, where I'm at now with Twitch, I'm seeing the fruition of what we had discussed before, of how we're doing the small groups, how we're even had the wording, how we're piecing these things together.

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 A lot of that's turned into the same thing, but now let's live stream it and let's make sure that the focus is on people that have never read the Bible before.

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 And I can't say that that was the case with Discord.

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 We had some people that were there that had never read the Bible before.

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 But if you message somebody randomly on Discord and say, Do you want to have a Bible study with me?

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 The answer will probably be no, unless they're a Christian.

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 But for me, we don't even call, I don't call it Bible study anymore.

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 I call it Bible discussion.

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 And I'm very clear that like, this is a chance for you to study the Bible with somebody who, I shouldn't even say, again, I'm having a hard time saying it, not study, but discuss.

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 Discuss the Bible with somebody that you trust, that you know cares for you, and not at a church, because chances are that you're not going to go to a church.

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 You know, that's partially the reason that I ended up leaving the church that I was at, is I just realized I was going to have such a hard time, not that it's impossible, but I was going to have a really hard time reaching the people that I needed to reach just being at my church.

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 I needed to be where gamers were.

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 And so that meant like, I was going to quit my job and go stream full time.

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 And I didn't even think streaming full time.

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 I just thought I was going to be active, like in the gaming community full time.

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 And now it's streaming and I, we have, we have crazy stories.

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 We should probably talk about some of the stories.

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 Like some of them are just, are just, are just nuts.

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 But I'm getting to have like really awesome conversations on a daily basis with non-Christians.

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 And some of those conversations are about God.

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 And especially on Saturdays when we do our Bible discussions, they're all always about God.

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 But just letting people know that you love them in a community where people don't usually feel loved.

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 And if they do, it's because of their skill.

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 And just to let them know, regardless of your skill, I just, you know, you're a person and you, you deserve love.

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 I, you know, I'm going to love you.

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 And, and that goes, that goes a long ways for people.

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 And then to be able to turn that around and say, by the way, I don't, I don't expect anything from you.

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 I don't expect you to love me in return.

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 I get my love from God.

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 And because of that overwhelming love, of course, I'm going to love you in return.

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 And that like, it gives you an end for like, why, why they should love God.

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 Rather than it being like, we talked about this, I think last time too, is the why is so much more important than the what.

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 And with, with streaming, especially if you don't have your why set on the right thing.

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 You're what will just be determined by whatever metrics Twitch decides are important.

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 And they'll say average view count is what's important or because they like revenue.

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 They like their ad revenue.

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 And if you're, I've disabled that, you know, I want to just, you know, we're skipping into a lot of different things.

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 I get that.

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 So I'm sorry that I'm kind of, I'm kind of ping pong.

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 And, but it's just a lot of thoughts, like all at once of why, why are we streaming?

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 And the reality is because in, in discord, we had a lot of people who were, we did a poll and it was 95% Christian at one point in time.

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 And we, we focused to get away from that.

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 We didn't want to just be Christian because we, we weren't reaching people at that point.

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 And we might as well be the revolving door of churches at that.

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 We're just another revolving door church where people come into our church because they didn't like their local church and they said gaming's bad.

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 And so now they join our local, our, our discord church.

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 And it's like, it's not the point, you know, we want to reach people.

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 So it's, it sounds like, you know, I'm, I'm even just trying to reconcile this because, you know, I'm, you're at a different level when it comes to the digital and I love, love what you're doing.

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 Even Twitch to me is, I'm not as comfortable in that platform.

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 I've, I've loved watching you and some other friends that have now been in, been in this space.

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 I don't know that I even totally understand what I'm watching, although my kids are enthralled by it.

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 But when it sounds like is that you, you had a community in context of discord and now it was, it was a Christian strong community.

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 You weren't getting a lot of outsiders, a lot of people who were called to Christ really coming in.

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 It's easy to do a, a Christian Bible study for Christian gamers, but to include lost people, the evangelism, you were really missing the front door for the community to allow people who were called to Christ in.

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 And so now you're utilizing Twitch really as that front door to bring people into the community.

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 And it sounds like that, that's a, is that working?

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 Like are lost people coming in?

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 What does that relationship look like?

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 Cause you got, you got a community full of, um, you know, 99s, a lot of people that, that are, you know, Christian gamers.

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 And now you're bringing in atheists and lost people.

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 And I was watching the other day and one of them, one of the people was like, Satan loves me or something like that.

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 And it was like, okay, that's interesting.

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 Now everything was, was above board healthy, but how is that community now looking now that you've attached like the Twitch front door to it?

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 Right. Yeah. And that's, I've actually, um, because, you know, I think people, it's hard.

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 I, I should, I should say that maybe the way that I do things is not always the best way to do things, but I realized that I'm in the experimental zone.

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 And like, as somebody who's trying new things, um, I'm going to have to do it a little differently because I don't know what's going to be successful.

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 And so I, I, I, I a hundred percent am just trying things and I'm willing to like switch on a dime if something doesn't work.

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 So my, um, maybe learn from my experience and don't do it exactly how I do it.

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 Um, I think that's, I'm open to be that.

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 And so my, my thing with, um, the discord is that I didn't use it to promote the Twitch.

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 And when I, I decided that whenever we, uh, whenever I started streaming on Twitch, I didn't name the name for our channel, uh, Love Clan.

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 It's Jate Live.

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 It's a, it's a separate, in my mind, it's, it's almost a separate, it should be, it is a separate entity.

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 Now, that being said, I, I am, I'm doing it almost as if, how would I, the reason I did that originally is I have tried in the past in other organizations I was in doing it as the organization.

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 But the problem is, I think what you do outside of your channel is almost as important, if not more important than what you do during your channel.

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 So like your, for sure in Twitch, Twitch is not discoverable.

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 So your YouTube channel is going to be more important for people finding your channel.

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 Your TikTok, more important.

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 Your Twitter, more important.

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 Like what you do on those platforms, lead people to your Twitch.

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 So Twitch by itself, just, there's a lot of people that think if I just live stream for seven hours, then people find me and I'll grind it out.

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 And you're better off spending more time on these other platforms, finding people and having them come to your, same thing with gaming, like gaming and then bringing people into the games, like saying, hey guys, I'm streaming.

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 Like if you want to find me, I'm on this channel and then they'll find you that way.

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 A lot of this is kind of like above board Twitch stuff and maybe not as important for our, the discussion about like using Twitch as a platform.

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 But, but that, but that is true.

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 And so I, I didn't want to pull people from just the discord and just say, come on into my, to my Twitch and like, we'll make this thing happen.

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 Mostly because I didn't want it to just be a Christian hangout.

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 Yeah.

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 And so.

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 Is there intentionality there towards, like, that's almost a good idea when it comes towards multiplication.

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 Because now Susie wants to go do something on Twitch.

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 Joe wants to go drive stuff from TikTok.

00:19:00.420 --> 00:19:10.600
 So now you've got three, four, five, 10 different front doors that are all feeding into your engagement pathway, discipleship, whatever community where you're, you're doing disciple making.

00:19:10.740 --> 00:19:12.780
 That, that's, that's actually smart, Jade.

00:19:13.300 --> 00:19:13.480
 Yeah.

00:19:13.480 --> 00:19:14.080
 Oh, thanks.

00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:20.120
 No, no, no, you got it because what, what we did in the last one is I did that same thing, but I used it as a, as a multiplication.

00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:32.320
 And in my mind, it was more multiplication because we'll just do, we'll call it the, the, like, I won't name the name of the organization that I worked with when we did this, but like, say I named it Love Clan.

00:19:33.360 --> 00:19:37.640
 And I, I let other people stream on Love Clan.

00:19:38.680 --> 00:19:39.000
 Okay.

00:19:39.060 --> 00:19:44.220
 Well, now they're growing because they're streaming and our platform is growing and we're, you know, that's not a bad way to do that.

00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:46.760
 And I know the organizations that currently do that.

00:19:46.960 --> 00:19:49.220
 I actually think that can be effective.

00:19:50.260 --> 00:20:02.720
 But you do hit a certain point where like, not everybody can stream at the same time then, you know, like you will hit a, you will hit a certain point where you're like, well, there's only so many hours in a day.

00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:11.900
 And like this person can stream till this point, as opposed to like, let's say you want a thousand people streaming, you know, sorry, like one channel is not going to cut it.

00:20:12.300 --> 00:20:15.780
 And you have the, to deal with, and this is important.

00:20:16.100 --> 00:20:22.540
 You do have to deal with, um, how do you distribute funds that come in through that?

00:20:23.500 --> 00:20:33.300
 And I'll, I'll even go further to say, how do you distribute when somebody really puts in the time and the effort to grow something and somebody else doesn't?

00:20:34.020 --> 00:20:38.080
 And you have to like, say, well, this person put in more time and effort.

00:20:38.200 --> 00:20:38.960
 So blah, blah, blah.

00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:41.580
 Or is it just pure street stream hours?

00:20:41.600 --> 00:20:46.580
 Or what if this person puts in $200 to get a good camera, but that person doesn't?

00:20:46.920 --> 00:20:51.340
 And, and it just starts to be this, like that kind of a thing.

00:20:51.400 --> 00:20:56.960
 The other side of that is, let's say that that person, um, what if you want to go and you should do this?

00:20:57.040 --> 00:21:00.940
 What if you want to go watch somebody else's stream and see what they're doing and encourage them?

00:21:01.180 --> 00:21:14.220
 Now you're encouraging them, but you're encouraging them as like, as a, as a commute, as a, you'd have to make your own account to like be your persona so that you're not doing it as love clan, you know?

00:21:15.220 --> 00:21:22.520
 And it just gets kind of, it just gets more messy than I think it needs to, rather than just being like, hey, we will partner with you.

00:21:22.760 --> 00:21:26.620
 We're going to give you funds or whatever you need to like get your stream going.

00:21:27.040 --> 00:21:28.680
 But, you know, it's, it's interesting.

00:21:28.820 --> 00:21:31.560
 I just, I just got a stat yesterday in the email.

00:21:31.740 --> 00:21:33.160
 It's kind of parallel to this.

00:21:34.880 --> 00:21:41.340
 Spotify is claiming that they broadcast, that they're responsible, the anchor platform that's attached to Spotify.

00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:51.760
 80% of podcasts, 80% of the podcasts, Spotify is claiming, claiming ownership of, and what's, what's interesting is the podcast.

00:21:51.760 --> 00:21:54.280
 They're not, they're not these giant podcasts.

00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.520
 They're, they're tiny.

00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:56.200
 They're small.

00:21:56.280 --> 00:22:00.300
 It's like, it's like, like the, the, the 10 listeners, the 20 listeners.

00:22:00.560 --> 00:22:09.040
 And so they've, they've, they're Spotify's claiming this title, not because of, of creating like the, the major broadcasts.

00:22:09.040 --> 00:22:14.280
 It's the bunch of the smaller broadcasts, by the way, the church digital grew 450% in 2020.

00:22:14.280 --> 00:22:15.820
 Thank you for all the listeners out there.

00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:17.400
 That aside, moving on.

00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:24.280
 It's, it's this phenomenal idea of, of in digital, for me, when I look at digital churches, and I think we've had this conversation.

00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:31.800
 I don't envision like a, a virtual giga sized building where it's tens of thousands of people.

00:22:32.000 --> 00:22:40.540
 For me, the win of a digital church is getting small people to reach their small circles and multiplying out that way.

00:22:40.620 --> 00:22:48.040
 It's, it's more of a multiplication approach as opposed to like a huge gathering of people digitally.

00:22:48.240 --> 00:22:50.740
 How, how have you seen, because I know you believe that.

00:22:50.820 --> 00:22:51.900
 I know you, you feel that.

00:22:51.900 --> 00:22:58.040
 How have you seen that, like reconcile out through Love Clan, through the Twitch, and the things that you're doing here recently?

00:22:58.360 --> 00:22:58.540
 Yeah.

00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:01.780
 So that's, I want to lead by example.

00:23:02.320 --> 00:23:03.840
 I've always, I've always done that.

00:23:03.980 --> 00:23:07.180
 And so I'm like, I want to show that something is possible first.

00:23:07.560 --> 00:23:14.900
 And maybe I go a little too far in a direction first before, like, rather than doing like, come with me and we'll do kind of a thing.

00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:28.300
 But there are already that I can think of at least two, I think maybe three people from Love Clan who have started streaming, like after I started streaming, that I, that are in the same mindset.

00:23:28.620 --> 00:23:32.300
 One of those is already doing the same way we're doing Bible discussions.

00:23:32.740 --> 00:23:34.360
 So that's, that's already happening.

00:23:35.100 --> 00:23:45.980
 That's why I say it's like a lot of, that, that was somebody that also did the, was a part of our, our Love Clan Discord when we did that.

00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:47.500
 And, and also ran a group there.

00:23:47.640 --> 00:23:52.640
 And so now he's seeing how it, how it's working in Twitch and like, we're moving in that direction.

00:23:52.940 --> 00:23:57.300
 And I'll, I'll add the reason that we did it on Twitch is interesting.

00:23:57.620 --> 00:24:00.980
 Like the, the original reason that I even decided to do Twitch actually.

00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:06.060
 It, or to do live streaming, I guess is maybe a better way to put it.

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:12.840
 I, I had a friend, we went to Japan together with a group of nine, nine people.

00:24:12.980 --> 00:24:15.560
 We all went to Japan and I've never met him in person.

00:24:15.560 --> 00:24:21.260
 I met him on online and we hung out, played games together all the time online.

00:24:21.800 --> 00:24:24.560
 And then when I went to Japan, I was like, do you want to come?

00:24:24.580 --> 00:24:25.280
 And he came with us.

00:24:26.420 --> 00:24:33.120
 That, that relationship has been like, I've been working on that guy for a very long time.

00:24:33.180 --> 00:24:34.060
 He's always on my heart.

00:24:34.120 --> 00:24:36.160
 He's always on my mind, praying for him all the time.

00:24:36.820 --> 00:24:40.000
 And, and he's, he's an atheist.

00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:41.960
 I mean, he's, he's been an atheist for a long time.

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:44.920
 I think he grew up in the church, but then he like, he was like, no, no.

00:24:45.660 --> 00:24:49.380
 And I invited him.

00:24:49.580 --> 00:24:53.640
 He, he's actually a huge fan of Love Clan and a huge fan of what we're doing because he's like,

00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:56.880
 it's really cool that you're reaching gamers and that you're actually thinking this way.

00:24:56.940 --> 00:24:58.100
 And he likes the heart behind it.

00:24:58.320 --> 00:25:00.640
 He just, it's just not, he's not there.

00:25:00.820 --> 00:25:02.120
 You know, it's not his thing.

00:25:02.840 --> 00:25:09.520
 And, um, I invited him to our small group in Discord and he said, no.

00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:13.620
 And the only reason he said no is because he said, I can't dedicate that much time to something

00:25:13.620 --> 00:25:14.560
 that I don't believe in.

00:25:17.140 --> 00:25:19.940
 And like that changed, that honestly changed my whole thinking.

00:25:19.940 --> 00:25:22.440
 Cause I was like, it kind of makes sense.

00:25:22.540 --> 00:25:23.840
 That's why they're not coming to church either.

00:25:23.960 --> 00:25:26.920
 Like, why would you go to church if you, it'd be the same thing.

00:25:26.940 --> 00:25:30.380
 I'm thinking that they're going to come to church as being like, well, when was the last

00:25:30.380 --> 00:25:31.480
 time that you stepped in a mosque?

00:25:32.900 --> 00:25:35.800
 Like, and how would you feel if you went to a mosque?

00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:37.900
 Like, it would be awkward.

00:25:38.160 --> 00:25:42.620
 Like we, we it's, we've just normalized it because we grew up in it that it's just normal to go

00:25:42.620 --> 00:25:44.720
 to church, but like, it's not, it's not normal.

00:25:45.120 --> 00:25:47.000
 And especially if you've never grown up in it.

00:25:47.500 --> 00:25:51.460
 And so for him, he's like, I am awkward around people.

00:25:51.980 --> 00:25:54.360
 I won't know the subject and that would be difficult.

00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:57.620
 And I don't want to spend that much time on something I don't believe in.

00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:01.240
 So it's, which, which is just, I, we have that kind of relationship.

00:26:01.240 --> 00:26:05.020
 It's been, you know, seven, nine years that we've known each other and we decided we're

00:26:05.020 --> 00:26:07.480
 going to just be very upfront about everything.

00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:12.920
 And, and so like, thank goodness he said that because then I was like, that's a good point.

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:20.360
 So like, let me make something that is already established where I'm live streaming games.

00:26:21.300 --> 00:26:25.260
 I'll just keep playing video games and we'll, we'll discuss the Bible.

00:26:25.560 --> 00:26:29.660
 And if you want to, you can have that as another, it can be on your second monitor.

00:26:29.880 --> 00:26:30.980
 It can be in the corner.

00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:32.240
 You can minimize it.

00:26:32.320 --> 00:26:36.860
 You can just hear what's going on, but it will give you a chance to hear what I believe in,

00:26:37.360 --> 00:26:39.680
 um, in a place that you're already at anyway.

00:26:39.820 --> 00:26:41.100
 He's a moderator in my channel.

00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:42.280
 He watches all the time.

00:26:43.060 --> 00:26:46.060
 You can just watch me play video games and talk about the Bible.

00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:49.100
 And if you have questions, if something does come up that you're like, I actually,

00:26:49.320 --> 00:26:51.720
 I have heard that before, but I don't, I don't get what they're talking about.

00:26:51.820 --> 00:26:53.060
 Then you can type that in chat.

00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:56.280
 But if you want, you can just be completely in the background and that's okay.

00:26:57.140 --> 00:27:02.640
 And I, I think I've said this every time that we've been on here, the best thing about online,

00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:04.600
 and this has become more and more true.

00:27:04.740 --> 00:27:07.680
 I think I said this first on a podcast and I didn't even know what I was saying.

00:27:08.040 --> 00:27:12.380
 Like I just said it and then I'd like thought about it afterwards, but it's just become more true.

00:27:12.680 --> 00:27:19.580
 The best and worst thing about online is anonymity, anonymous, being anonymous, having people.

00:27:19.840 --> 00:27:20.820
 Anonymity is the word.

00:27:20.820 --> 00:27:21.560
 Anonymity is the word.

00:27:21.620 --> 00:27:21.740
 Yeah.

00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:22.520
 There you go.

00:27:22.520 --> 00:27:32.920
 Like, like being the ability to just disappear is the best and worst thing because people will just be there for a year.

00:27:33.120 --> 00:27:37.080
 You know them, they're active, whatever, and they just disappear and you have no idea what happened to them.

00:27:37.400 --> 00:27:43.480
 And the scariest thing is when that happens with people that constantly we're praying for about anxiety and depression.

00:27:43.860 --> 00:27:46.100
 And that person just disappears and you don't know where they went.

00:27:46.320 --> 00:27:46.940
 I hate that.

00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:48.320
 And like, that keeps me up at night.

00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:57.500
 But the best thing about it is that there are non-Christians who are just like, I don't know what's going on.

00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:02.100
 I just, I want some information and I'm not going to go to a church to get it.

00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:06.360
 And I'm not going to talk to my friends about it because I don't want anybody to know that I'm even thinking about it.

00:28:06.620 --> 00:28:11.820
 But just tell me up front what it is that you believe in, you know, and like, let's talk about that.

00:28:11.820 --> 00:28:15.360
 And we can do that in like an actual meaningful way.

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:16.180
 All right.

00:28:16.300 --> 00:28:17.340
 I want to back up.

00:28:17.340 --> 00:28:17.900
 Yeah, we got to skip.

00:28:18.020 --> 00:28:21.520
 A little bit because, but you're, man, I love talking with you.

00:28:21.580 --> 00:28:23.560
 So I think like you think.

00:28:23.760 --> 00:28:25.500
 And so like, I'm totally keeping up with you.

00:28:25.560 --> 00:28:28.060
 And some listener is probably like, what?

00:28:28.820 --> 00:28:29.020
 Yeah.

00:28:29.300 --> 00:28:30.280
 Sorry if I go.

00:28:30.840 --> 00:28:31.460
 It's beautiful.

00:28:31.880 --> 00:28:35.860
 We live in a, maybe this is up for debate.

00:28:36.300 --> 00:28:39.880
 You know, maybe different races treat this differently.

00:28:40.220 --> 00:28:42.800
 I don't mean to like drop a mic here.

00:28:43.160 --> 00:28:45.920
 We live in a post-Christian society, at least here in America.

00:28:46.240 --> 00:28:47.040
 And if we're not.

00:28:47.300 --> 00:28:48.860
 In Japanese culture, it is not.

00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:52.260
 I'll just say that it's 2% Christianity, maybe 1%.

00:28:52.260 --> 00:28:54.720
 And they are, they've never had Christianity.

00:28:54.980 --> 00:28:58.100
 It's not like they had it, but it was like, it just skipped right over.

00:28:58.220 --> 00:29:02.200
 And it's so interesting talking about Jesus with them there.

00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:03.320
 Anyway, so yes, in America.

00:29:03.840 --> 00:29:03.960
 Yeah.

00:29:04.700 --> 00:29:06.220
 You made me just take a tangent.

00:29:06.300 --> 00:29:07.580
 I'll come back to what I was going to say.

00:29:08.080 --> 00:29:09.060
 I might, my head exploded.

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:10.220
 You'll appreciate this comment.

00:29:11.140 --> 00:29:13.800
 I was doing a think tank with Send Institute.

00:29:14.160 --> 00:29:15.600
 That's Ed Stetzer, Daniel Yang.

00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:18.540
 I don't mean to drop names, but I'm in a think tank here.

00:29:19.500 --> 00:29:24.340
 Yeah, there, there, there was, it was for young, a missiologist and confession.

00:29:25.180 --> 00:29:29.160
 The definition of young was at the age 40 or below.

00:29:29.460 --> 00:29:30.740
 I'm actually 43.

00:29:30.740 --> 00:29:34.460
 So I'm not sure I really belonged in the room with a bunch of young missiologists.

00:29:34.460 --> 00:29:36.300
 I guess I'm now an old missiologist.

00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:43.080
 I'm bald with Greg in my beard, but there's a guy, Sam George, my head exploded and we're

00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:44.180
 going to have him on the podcast.

00:29:44.340 --> 00:29:47.140
 He was talking about this idea of the problem.

00:29:47.240 --> 00:29:48.100
 And he's Indian.

00:29:48.520 --> 00:29:50.920
 I think he's done the majority of his ministry in India.

00:29:51.180 --> 00:29:55.500
 I actually bought a couple of books while he was talking and we kind of debriefed afterwards

00:29:55.500 --> 00:29:56.160
 at some point.

00:29:56.640 --> 00:30:00.900
 But he said this word, he says, the problem with American Christianity is that it's incomplete.

00:30:01.840 --> 00:30:04.960
 And he went on to say, you really want to understand the book of Acts?

00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:08.280
 Go live six months in India, then read the book of Acts.

00:30:08.860 --> 00:30:11.940
 Go spend a year in China, then read the book of Acts.

00:30:12.260 --> 00:30:16.700
 He's like, the problem with the American church is that it's isolated itself from the rest of

00:30:16.700 --> 00:30:18.740
 the world in Christianity standpoints.

00:30:18.740 --> 00:30:25.160
 And instead of trying to influence the nations, maybe we need to listen to the nations and start

00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:25.900
 to grow from there.

00:30:26.100 --> 00:30:30.860
 And he went on and started talking about, and I'm going to use terms that you know probably

00:30:30.860 --> 00:30:36.720
 better than me, you know, the ecclesia being the gathered scattered church, as opposed to

00:30:36.720 --> 00:30:40.680
 diaspora, which is more of the scattering of the gathered church.

00:30:41.120 --> 00:30:45.520
 And that, and so he, and I'm immediately hearing like digital implications and it's phenomenal.

00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:45.900
 Right.

00:30:46.040 --> 00:30:51.000
 And a little bit, you know, later on in the think tank, somebody talks about me being digital

00:30:51.000 --> 00:30:51.960
 church planting guy.

00:30:52.100 --> 00:30:58.060
 And, and it's funny, Sam George messaged me, you know, through, through Zoom, you do digital

00:30:58.060 --> 00:30:58.420
 churches.

00:30:58.420 --> 00:30:59.540
 I want to talk to you.

00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:00.440
 I want to learn from you.

00:31:00.560 --> 00:31:02.040
 And I'm like, are you kidding me?

00:31:02.400 --> 00:31:03.320
 I want to learn from you.

00:31:03.360 --> 00:31:05.500
 You just blew my mind like an hour ago.

00:31:05.540 --> 00:31:06.300
 This is great.

00:31:06.740 --> 00:31:11.400
 So we're going to have that, that conversation just from, from a international global perspective,

00:31:11.400 --> 00:31:12.460
 so much power there.

00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:16.320
 But let me come back to really what I wanted to, to, to get to.

00:31:16.640 --> 00:31:20.560
 I, I, I'm, I'm intrigued a little bit and it's going to, all this is going to fit

00:31:20.560 --> 00:31:20.760
 together.

00:31:20.760 --> 00:31:21.300
 It's going to be awesome.

00:31:21.720 --> 00:31:26.360
 I'm intrigued a little bit by, by your point of, you, when you're talking about, you know,

00:31:26.420 --> 00:31:30.640
 isolation, anonymity, you're dealing with people, you know, sometimes they disappear.

00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:31.720
 You don't know what's going on.

00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:32.500
 Let's be honest.

00:31:32.500 --> 00:31:34.120
 That happens in the physical realm as well.

00:31:34.420 --> 00:31:39.640
 And so, but you, you've got people, you know, that, that struggle with depression, you

00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:41.700
 know, some of the, some of those things and that they just disappear.

00:31:42.160 --> 00:31:44.160
 I want to pull on a thread here.

00:31:44.540 --> 00:31:48.800
 So you're broadcasting, you're not breathing the same air molecules.

00:31:49.140 --> 00:31:56.140
 You're dealing with people in text chat, maybe voice chat, maybe, maybe face-to-face via,

00:31:56.140 --> 00:31:58.840
 you know, a webcam, something like that.

00:31:58.840 --> 00:32:00.940
 But I imagine that's probably not the majority.

00:32:01.700 --> 00:32:01.700
 Right.

00:32:01.780 --> 00:32:06.400
 You authentically know people well enough to know that they're struggling with depression.

00:32:07.040 --> 00:32:12.920
 Like you are that engaged with people in a digital space that, that you're, you know,

00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:16.860
 that your soul is struggling when they're going through hard times like, like this.

00:32:18.140 --> 00:32:23.840
 Listen, I, I've dealt with enough people that, that say that's a crock of bull, that, that

00:32:23.840 --> 00:32:28.240
 you can't have that, that you can't have that level of relationship digitally.

00:32:28.640 --> 00:32:30.280
 Now, look, you're, you're 20 something.

00:32:30.420 --> 00:32:32.960
 You, I don't think you've ever told me your age and I'm not going to hold a gun to your

00:32:32.960 --> 00:32:35.240
 head and make you do it, but you're, you're of that generation.

00:32:35.240 --> 00:32:39.540
 Is that like, is that level of, of engagement of relationship?

00:32:39.540 --> 00:32:41.800
 Is that common at that age?

00:32:41.900 --> 00:32:42.900
 Do you see it younger?

00:32:43.020 --> 00:32:43.940
 Do you see it older?

00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:47.520
 Like, talk to me a little bit here about the authentic level relationships that you're

00:32:47.520 --> 00:32:50.440
 getting out of Twitch, out of discord.

00:32:51.040 --> 00:32:51.160
 Right.

00:32:51.400 --> 00:32:51.720
 Yeah.

00:32:51.780 --> 00:32:56.240
 And it's, it's, so I'm, I'm millennial, but I've noticed this even more with Gen Z.

00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:57.640
 I think somebody said this to me.

00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:04.740
 They said like, Gen Z is the hardest to get, um, attention for like 13 minutes.

00:33:05.080 --> 00:33:07.600
 Like it's so difficult to get their attention.

00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:14.220
 But if you can, if you can get the attention of a Gen Z person, which is the generation

00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:19.500
 before or after mine, if you can get their attention for like 13 minutes, then you'll

00:33:19.500 --> 00:33:22.320
 have them for longer than any other generation before that.

00:33:22.620 --> 00:33:22.740
 Wow.

00:33:23.220 --> 00:33:29.080
 Because, because like they trust you long enough for that short period of time that if you've

00:33:29.080 --> 00:33:32.140
 lost them in that period, then you'll probably lose them in all of it.

00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:37.020
 But if you keep them for that, then they assume that like, well, I'll just like, we'll go

00:33:37.020 --> 00:33:44.040
 all in then, you know, and, uh, what's, what I've noticed is it's, you know, it's funny.

00:33:44.040 --> 00:33:48.000
 Cause you say like, wow, you've known people long enough that they would be willing to be

00:33:48.000 --> 00:33:49.420
 open about anxiety and depression.

00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:53.440
 And I'm like, that's usually the like first or second thing that people might say.

00:33:54.180 --> 00:33:56.260
 I mean, it's, it's pretty quick.

00:33:56.300 --> 00:33:59.200
 People are pretty, pretty okay with doing that.

00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:01.420
 And the reason I think is because it's anonymous.

00:34:02.940 --> 00:34:08.200
 Um, and, and I don't want to, I don't want to downplay that though, because there are people

00:34:08.200 --> 00:34:13.240
 that I've known for now, four years who one of our first conversation was I'm dealing with

00:34:13.240 --> 00:34:19.760
 anxiety, but because of how I responded to that person dealing with anxiety, that person

00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:23.120
 knew that they could trust our, our conversations.

00:34:23.120 --> 00:34:26.420
 They knew that we could trust whatever, and that they could be open about a lot of other

00:34:26.420 --> 00:34:26.800
 stuff.

00:34:27.620 --> 00:34:32.060
 You know, the anxiety maybe wasn't even that it's not like they're, they're not holding

00:34:32.060 --> 00:34:33.340
 that, that close to their heart.

00:34:33.420 --> 00:34:34.400
 They wear it on their sleeves.

00:34:34.520 --> 00:34:34.700
 Yeah.

00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:35.500
 I'm anxious.

00:34:35.700 --> 00:34:36.320
 Everybody's anxious.

00:34:36.600 --> 00:34:37.360
 I have anxiety.

00:34:37.600 --> 00:34:37.780
 Yeah.

00:34:37.860 --> 00:34:42.080
 I mean, like, just like everybody else online, we all have anxiety and it's like, Hey, I'm

00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:43.080
 having a hard time sleeping.

00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:46.740
 I actually needed to get to sleep, but I just thought I'd pop in the chat and I'm actually

00:34:46.740 --> 00:34:51.260
 dealing with depression and it, you know, I just, it just sucks.

00:34:51.340 --> 00:34:52.080
 Could you pray for me?

00:34:52.180 --> 00:34:53.920
 You know, that happens like regularly.

00:34:54.360 --> 00:35:00.060
 And if I pray for somebody like three times, that person will usually join a Bible discussion.

00:35:00.360 --> 00:35:02.360
 That, that, that just tends to be the case.

00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.800
 Like I will pray for somebody three times before they join our Bible discussions.

00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:11.040
 And, uh, they will say, I have this thing that I'm, I'm dealing with.

00:35:11.120 --> 00:35:15.300
 I have that as a thing in my channel, by the way, it's the, like, you can spend points

00:35:15.300 --> 00:35:18.720
 and it's this whole, this whole deal, but I just make it very obvious that like, I want

00:35:18.720 --> 00:35:19.400
 to pray for you.

00:35:19.660 --> 00:35:21.200
 And that's my most important thing.

00:35:21.660 --> 00:35:25.740
 Um, as like when I'm just streaming in a normal day on Saturdays, we have our, like,

00:35:26.180 --> 00:35:30.320
 we're, we're doing it about the Bible, but during the week, my goal is to pray for

00:35:30.320 --> 00:35:30.640
 people.

00:35:31.160 --> 00:35:36.800
 So, um, I, at one point in time, this is kind of important because at one point in time,

00:35:36.800 --> 00:35:42.460
 when I, when I talk about metrics, I, at the very beginning, somebody asked for me to pray

00:35:42.460 --> 00:35:42.860
 for them.

00:35:43.820 --> 00:35:45.820
 And I said, yes, let me, I will pray for you.

00:35:46.240 --> 00:35:49.540
 Um, let, let me, let me, let me pause real quick.

00:35:49.540 --> 00:35:53.660
 And I'm going to, I'm going to pause so that I can, I can get real serious and I can pray

00:35:53.660 --> 00:35:56.200
 about that because that's actually really important what you asked me to pray for.

00:35:56.420 --> 00:35:58.960
 And it was about anxiety and a whole bunch of stuff.

00:35:59.740 --> 00:36:06.220
 And I remember doing that and I had it up where I could see the number of viewers and I watched

00:36:06.220 --> 00:36:07.180
 the number of viewers drop.

00:36:07.780 --> 00:36:10.520
 I think it dropped to like five people, something like that.

00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:16.560
 And I remember thinking my first thought was, well, first it was like, that sucks.

00:36:16.620 --> 00:36:20.120
 These guys just left because they like, they didn't want to hear me pray for somebody.

00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:23.120
 But then I was like, maybe I should word it differently next time.

00:36:23.780 --> 00:36:30.280
 And when I had that thought, I had to take a, a sudden switch because it was, I realized

00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:37.660
 that I was not basing what I was doing, or I was about to not base what I was doing off

00:36:37.660 --> 00:36:40.700
 of a metric that wasn't even a part of my success.

00:36:40.840 --> 00:36:42.520
 Like what I considered success.

00:36:42.740 --> 00:36:46.800
 What I considered success, if I, if there was no viewers and I got to pray for somebody

00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:50.720
 about something that was very important and I made a connection with that person in a way

00:36:50.720 --> 00:36:53.840
 that they hadn't made a connection before, that was a success for me.

00:36:54.100 --> 00:36:55.760
 That was a successful stream.

00:36:56.360 --> 00:36:59.580
 And if I had a hundred viewers, but I didn't get to do that, would that really even be a

00:36:59.580 --> 00:37:00.280
 successful stream?

00:37:00.920 --> 00:37:07.100
 Like it's kind of my, my mindset just, that's why I say it's really, really important that

00:37:07.100 --> 00:37:12.840
 you have to say what's important because once I realized that I, I removed it.

00:37:12.940 --> 00:37:17.480
 I can't even see how many viewers are live whenever I'm streaming now, because I don't

00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:20.520
 want to change what I'm saying based off of the number of people that are watching.

00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:25.640
 And I don't want to know if a bunch of people leave because of something I say.

00:37:26.360 --> 00:37:30.960
 I would much rather just be like, yeah, like the, the chat is more important.

00:37:32.280 --> 00:37:36.080
 I, I go, I do look at those metrics after the fact.

00:37:36.540 --> 00:37:38.600
 I'll look and say like, wow, that's interesting.

00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:42.760
 Like we had this many people and maybe I need to play a different game or like, there are

00:37:42.760 --> 00:37:45.440
 some things that you can do to, to mitigate some of that.

00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:51.280
 But I, I specifically don't want to not pray for somebody because I, I'm afraid that it'll

00:37:51.280 --> 00:37:55.340
 affect my numbers or I don't want to not say something that needs to be said.

00:37:55.380 --> 00:37:59.280
 That's like, this is what the Bible says on what you just said, because I'm afraid it'll

00:37:59.280 --> 00:37:59.960
 affect numbers.

00:38:00.800 --> 00:38:09.280
 And, um, when, when those discussions happen, uh, that's usually where I would say the growth,

00:38:09.540 --> 00:38:13.060
 you like what you're talking about, where I'm really getting to know somebody.

00:38:14.060 --> 00:38:14.440
 Yeah.

00:38:14.440 --> 00:38:16.840
 Like that happens pretty regularly.

00:38:16.840 --> 00:38:18.680
 People are ready for me to pray for them.

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:24.540
 Um, I've given people outs, I would say with prayer where I'll even say, Hey, I pray for

00:38:24.540 --> 00:38:28.420
 everybody at the end of every stream, but I'm saying during streams, I'll say, Hey, you

00:38:28.420 --> 00:38:29.820
 know, I see what you're dealing with.

00:38:30.360 --> 00:38:33.760
 Um, you know, you, you say you've been telling us that you're dealing with anxiety and all

00:38:33.760 --> 00:38:40.120
 this, um, as a Christian, the way that I best know to love you is to pray for you.

00:38:40.620 --> 00:38:44.580
 Uh, I believe in a loving God who loves you more than even I can.

00:38:45.240 --> 00:38:50.300
 And that cares about you, that knows the things that you're not sharing, that knows the things

00:38:50.300 --> 00:38:51.680
 that I can never know.

00:38:51.680 --> 00:38:55.440
 And that maybe I shouldn't even know, um, but that, you know, and that God knows.

00:38:55.560 --> 00:38:56.980
 And so I want to pray for you.

00:38:57.320 --> 00:38:59.760
 Uh, and if you don't believe in the power of prayer, that's fine.

00:39:00.180 --> 00:39:04.740
 I, that if I would love to chat about that sometime or on Sunday, uh, Saturdays, we have

00:39:04.740 --> 00:39:08.220
 a Bible discussion for people that have never studied the Bible.

00:39:08.600 --> 00:39:14.220
 And, um, you might be interested in joining that, but, uh, even if not, if you just read

00:39:14.220 --> 00:39:16.860
 this as good vibes, that's totally fine with me.

00:39:17.140 --> 00:39:20.800
 Um, you know, the Bible tells me to love God and to love people and I love you.

00:39:20.800 --> 00:39:24.060
 And so I want to do whatever it is that, you know, is a loving thing for you.

00:39:24.580 --> 00:39:26.580
 Uh, but know that I do believe in the power of prayer.

00:39:26.660 --> 00:39:27.800
 So I'm going to pray for you.

00:39:28.240 --> 00:39:34.220
 And, um, and that, that just kind of like, it just quickly tells people that like, I'm

00:39:34.220 --> 00:39:36.380
 not trying to, I'm not trying to convert you.

00:39:36.500 --> 00:39:43.520
 I'm not trying to, uh, trick you into like saying some word that like, you know, that

00:39:43.520 --> 00:39:46.020
 Jesus like sneaks into your heart or something.

00:39:46.020 --> 00:39:49.980
 Like I, I'm just, I'm just telling you up front, here's what I believe.

00:39:50.440 --> 00:39:51.540
 Here's why I'm doing it.

00:39:51.580 --> 00:39:52.740
 It's because I love you.

00:39:53.140 --> 00:39:57.520
 And I'm going to show that by, I'm going to stop everything I'm doing during my stream

00:39:57.520 --> 00:39:59.560
 and I'm going to take the time to just pray for you.

00:40:00.100 --> 00:40:03.580
 And that speaks, I mean, it speaks volumes.

00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:12.140
 Um, and I, that's, that kind of, um, doing that for somebody will start a relationship

00:40:12.140 --> 00:40:13.680
 pretty fast.

00:40:14.580 --> 00:40:17.420
 Uh, and it, it's, it's just possible online.

00:40:17.420 --> 00:40:18.580
 Like, I don't know.

00:40:19.400 --> 00:40:21.640
 Maybe that, maybe that hopped around your question.

00:40:22.220 --> 00:40:27.480
 I, I would, I would say you just have more like, I'll, I'll, I'll brushstroke some of what

00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:28.960
 you just said with like, why is online.

00:40:28.960 --> 00:40:33.040
 I think it's stuff we talked about before, but there's just more time is the biggest part

00:40:33.040 --> 00:40:33.320
 of it.

00:40:33.680 --> 00:40:37.840
 You know, like actually count the minutes if you want to, you can count the number of minutes

00:40:37.840 --> 00:40:42.000
 of time, the last time that you chatted with your best friend and like how long you actually

00:40:42.000 --> 00:40:43.660
 hung out together, even if in person.

00:40:44.040 --> 00:40:50.520
 And, and we have an easy out cause it's COVID, but even, you know, after COVID, even when we're

00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:53.060
 just hanging out with people, you just don't get a whole lot of time with people.

00:40:53.140 --> 00:40:55.760
 And I get hours every day.

00:40:55.760 --> 00:40:59.360
 I streamed for like 10 hours a day and I see a lot of the same people.

00:40:59.780 --> 00:41:03.320
 So even if it's just with text chat, I just have more communication with them than you do.

00:41:03.740 --> 00:41:06.500
 You know, like it, it just, it just natural.

00:41:06.640 --> 00:41:07.120
 Of course I do.

00:41:07.180 --> 00:41:11.980
 Like I'm, I'm here doing this and it will, it does hit a certain point where there's so

00:41:11.980 --> 00:41:16.900
 many people in chat that it's difficult for me to, to focus on one person.

00:41:17.160 --> 00:41:18.400
 And I'm noticing that.

00:41:18.540 --> 00:41:23.080
 And that's why I'm trying to get other streamers so that we can have, they can go and they're

00:41:23.080 --> 00:41:23.760
 active too.

00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:29.780
 If I'm not being active or engaging enough, we do game nights outside of maybe when I'm

00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:30.120
 streaming.

00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:35.500
 I go watch other streamers so that I'm like, I'm having that relationship.

00:41:35.500 --> 00:41:36.620
 That's more face to face.

00:41:36.660 --> 00:41:40.260
 It's not face to face, but like I can chat with them here and they chat with me here.

00:41:40.300 --> 00:41:42.140
 And it's like, okay, I can put a face with it.

00:41:42.860 --> 00:41:49.640
 Um, yeah, I, I, I find a lot of that does happen in private messages, but also building

00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:52.660
 the community so that they focus on each other is big.

00:41:52.920 --> 00:41:57.580
 Like one person in chat, chatting with another person in chat and having that happen more

00:41:57.580 --> 00:41:59.180
 than I'm just the medium.

00:41:59.340 --> 00:42:00.540
 You guys need to chat with each other.

00:42:00.760 --> 00:42:04.880
 And there's ways you can build that, but it's, uh, you know, I've told the story a lot about

00:42:04.880 --> 00:42:09.160
 somebody asked Seth Godin, uh, one of the top marketing guys in the planet, probably right

00:42:09.160 --> 00:42:12.620
 now, definitely America, but somebody asked him, how do I get my message?

00:42:12.860 --> 00:42:13.880
 Heard around the world.

00:42:14.240 --> 00:42:20.460
 Um, the guy was trying to figure out what social media networks were valid to get a single message

00:42:20.460 --> 00:42:21.620
 broadcasted around the planet.

00:42:22.080 --> 00:42:24.140
 Um, Seth didn't answer that question instead.

00:42:24.240 --> 00:42:27.080
 He said, a billion people don't care about what you have to say.

00:42:27.500 --> 00:42:33.540
 Uh, if you really want to be effective, tell the smallest number of people possible and

00:42:33.540 --> 00:42:38.420
 then get them to multiply that message, get them to tell somebody else and then get them

00:42:38.420 --> 00:42:39.320
 to tell somebody else.

00:42:39.480 --> 00:42:42.680
 And so a million person, I don't know that the world, maybe the world will see them.

00:42:42.740 --> 00:42:43.500
 I'm sure, you know what?

00:42:43.520 --> 00:42:43.980
 I take it back.

00:42:44.180 --> 00:42:45.900
 The world will see a million person church.

00:42:46.320 --> 00:42:49.580
 Um, you know, the life churches or that, like that's, that's going to happen.

00:42:49.680 --> 00:42:51.500
 I don't know that that's replicatable.

00:42:51.940 --> 00:42:57.300
 Um, but a hundred thousand churches of 10, uh, that's, that's on the verge of, of an explosion.

00:42:57.840 --> 00:43:03.840
 And so, you know, I love this, you know, I, I even, I love the transparency, Jay, of, you

00:43:03.840 --> 00:43:07.960
 know, it's sometimes the chat room gets too big and it's hard for us to really give individual

00:43:07.960 --> 00:43:08.420
 attention.

00:43:08.600 --> 00:43:11.880
 And so that's why we're, we're multiplying out.

00:43:11.960 --> 00:43:17.360
 That's why we're trying to get other people to stream so that we can just continually be

00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:21.380
 keeping it at the level that, that we can, we can handle in there.

00:43:21.380 --> 00:43:24.800
 And so we can give people, you know, adequate attention to that.

00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:26.180
 I even love your heart.

00:43:26.260 --> 00:43:27.880
 One of my questions was going to be evangelism.

00:43:27.980 --> 00:43:31.400
 You just, you know, went straight into that where you were, you know, what I heard was

00:43:31.400 --> 00:43:35.240
 almost a, a boil the frog slowly approach.

00:43:35.400 --> 00:43:37.980
 You know, you really can't do this quickly.

00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:43.880
 Um, maybe, maybe it's not like, like the building, but the good news is online, you got time you're

00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:48.340
 streaming at all hours and you can build that relationship slowly.

00:43:48.340 --> 00:43:53.620
 And instead of doing an event-based evangelism where you've got X number of minutes to get

00:43:53.620 --> 00:43:58.220
 somebody to raise their hand, to accept Christ, you've got time because you're building that

00:43:58.220 --> 00:44:03.220
 relationship and through that relationship, funneling over stuff like that's beautiful.

00:44:03.580 --> 00:44:04.020
 Yeah.

00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:08.620
 And I don't even know what we consider slow is the other thing because, um, I'll tell this

00:44:08.620 --> 00:44:08.860
 story.

00:44:08.920 --> 00:44:10.080
 I think it's, I think it's fine.

00:44:10.140 --> 00:44:13.760
 I'm afraid to use like specific stories just because these are all things that are still

00:44:13.760 --> 00:44:14.120
 happening.

00:44:14.940 --> 00:44:20.360
 Um, so yeah, I mean, you know, take this with a don't, whatever.

00:44:20.580 --> 00:44:28.880
 Anyway, um, there, there are, um, well, she's, she's told me this is fine and we've talked

00:44:28.880 --> 00:44:29.280
 about this.

00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:33.220
 Um, there's a Satanist that comes to our Bible discussions.

00:44:34.580 --> 00:44:40.040
 Um, I just met her by, we were chatting on online.

00:44:40.040 --> 00:44:45.040
 Um, like you said, there's somebody that you mentioned her, like Satan, Satan, whatever.

00:44:45.240 --> 00:44:48.500
 She has lots of different accounts because they keep getting banned for having different

00:44:48.500 --> 00:44:48.920
 things.

00:44:49.300 --> 00:44:52.940
 And, um, but yeah, she, she's awesome.

00:44:53.460 --> 00:44:58.680
 Um, she has a, we, we had a big, like two hour discussion kind of, as I said, what, what

00:44:58.680 --> 00:44:59.600
 can I call your name?

00:44:59.600 --> 00:45:01.920
 And like, can I call you a different, different thing?

00:45:01.920 --> 00:45:04.800
 Cause like, that's just kind of hard, weird for me to be like, Hey, Satan, how's it going?

00:45:04.940 --> 00:45:10.240
 And, you know, so, uh, we, we, we had that whole conversation, but it turned into like,

00:45:10.280 --> 00:45:11.600
 yeah, why, why, why is that your name?

00:45:11.860 --> 00:45:12.820
 Oh, I'm a Satanist.

00:45:13.060 --> 00:45:13.420
 Oh, okay.

00:45:13.440 --> 00:45:14.700
 Well, I guess that makes sense then, doesn't it?

00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:20.980
 And, um, but through that, through the, like, just, I, I'm going into like, understand,

00:45:21.140 --> 00:45:22.900
 seek first to understand and then to be understood.

00:45:23.980 --> 00:45:25.960
 Um, I was like, yeah, tell me, tell me about that.

00:45:25.980 --> 00:45:27.100
 Like, what does that actually mean?

00:45:27.220 --> 00:45:30.660
 Um, cause I've heard that before, like, do you worship Satan?

00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:32.680
 Like, what is the, what does that mean?

00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:38.040
 And for her, she said, well, yeah, I know that some people do, but for me, um, I don't

00:45:38.040 --> 00:45:39.240
 actually believe Satan exists.

00:45:39.840 --> 00:45:42.280
 Um, Satan's actually just a, an image.

00:45:42.800 --> 00:45:44.340
 Uh, it's a, it's a symbol.

00:45:45.060 --> 00:45:48.520
 And it's a symbol for like anti-Judeo-Christianity.

00:45:48.820 --> 00:45:53.140
 It's the idea of like, uh, it's a symbol for, um, anarchy.

00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:55.820
 It's a symbol for being against society.

00:45:56.560 --> 00:45:58.520
 And, um, I was like, oh, that's interesting.

00:45:58.620 --> 00:46:01.740
 So then what, what do you actually believe then as your, as your thing?

00:46:01.980 --> 00:46:06.960
 Well, we believe in that, um, your will and my will, we can have different wills, but as

00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:10.520
 long as like, we're all living our own truth, then it's okay.

00:46:11.620 --> 00:46:13.360
 And compassion for everything.

00:46:13.960 --> 00:46:15.260
 It's like, what?

00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:16.940
 Like, yeah, yeah.

00:46:16.940 --> 00:46:18.060
 That's a, that's a part of our thing.

00:46:18.100 --> 00:46:22.460
 The guy that started it, you know, he said, uh, you know, you don't want to just go into

00:46:22.460 --> 00:46:24.800
 anarchy, but then not love each other.

00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:26.020
 And so we're going to have two rules.

00:46:26.020 --> 00:46:29.700
 One is that you do whatever you want, but also you have to have compassion for everybody.

00:46:29.840 --> 00:46:33.340
 So compassion for everybody comes above even your own will.

00:46:33.420 --> 00:46:37.160
 So if you want to hurt people, you can't do it unless, because you need to have compassion

00:46:37.160 --> 00:46:37.700
 for everybody.

00:46:38.200 --> 00:46:40.220
 And that just like blew my mind.

00:46:40.220 --> 00:46:44.060
 Cause I was just like, okay, that's not at all what I thought whenever I went down this

00:46:44.060 --> 00:46:45.400
 hole of like, you're a Satanist.

00:46:46.000 --> 00:46:50.120
 Um, you just told me you're, I was like, so are you a vegetarian then?

00:46:50.200 --> 00:46:51.520
 Because you don't want to hurt.

00:46:51.700 --> 00:46:51.960
 Yeah.

00:46:52.480 --> 00:46:53.060
 Oh, cool.

00:46:53.140 --> 00:46:54.120
 Well, I'm a vegetarian too.

00:46:54.260 --> 00:46:58.660
 So, you know, maybe for a different reason, but like, dang, like that's actually kind of

00:46:58.660 --> 00:46:59.020
 interesting.

00:46:59.020 --> 00:47:00.300
 So you have compassion for everybody.

00:47:00.660 --> 00:47:04.620
 And as we started to talk, I was able to relate and say, Hey, you know, honestly, I kind

00:47:04.620 --> 00:47:09.520
 of relate with that because my faith is, uh, really boils down to all the laws and down

00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:10.560
 to love God and love people.

00:47:11.120 --> 00:47:16.700
 So we actually have probably, we both have the same law as like one of our main things

00:47:16.700 --> 00:47:17.360
 is to love people.

00:47:17.520 --> 00:47:19.420
 That's like a huge part of our faith.

00:47:20.040 --> 00:47:24.180
 And the only thing is that I believe, I also have love God and you don't, you don't believe

00:47:24.180 --> 00:47:24.900
 that God exists.

00:47:25.000 --> 00:47:29.660
 And that makes sense that the path that you've taken is my, my will and your will.

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:30.540
 We all have our own will.

00:47:30.660 --> 00:47:34.140
 If God doesn't exist, um, that actually makes sense to me.

00:47:34.280 --> 00:47:36.000
 I just believe that God does exist.

00:47:36.000 --> 00:47:37.640
 And so I'm going to follow God's will.

00:47:37.820 --> 00:47:41.580
 And then we had that big, long discussion where we were actually able to come to an

00:47:41.580 --> 00:47:43.680
 agreement rather than saying, you're a Satanist.

00:47:43.960 --> 00:47:44.560
 I'm a Christian.

00:47:44.860 --> 00:47:48.680
 Therefore we have nothing in common into, I just believe God exists and you don't.

00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:51.780
 So like that's, we have a ground that we can talk about in the future going forward.

00:47:52.260 --> 00:47:53.340
 And she said, that's interesting.

00:47:53.740 --> 00:47:58.540
 Then what, what, then what, um, what, if God exists, what kind of God is he, you know?

00:47:58.580 --> 00:48:00.440
 And okay, let's talk about the Bible.

00:48:00.600 --> 00:48:05.800
 So now she's in our Bible discussion group and we're going through Luke and she didn't have

00:48:05.800 --> 00:48:06.740
 the game that we were playing.

00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:10.220
 So somebody in the channel bought her the game and then she was in the voice chat.

00:48:10.220 --> 00:48:15.760
 And so we were voice chatting while I'm reading through Luke six and talking about, you know,

00:48:16.180 --> 00:48:19.060
 the law and like, I was able to relate, relate some stuff.

00:48:19.160 --> 00:48:21.740
 We have, we've had some interesting discussions during that.

00:48:22.360 --> 00:48:28.440
 Um, we, when we got to the part with, uh, in I think seven where there's the, uh, demon

00:48:28.440 --> 00:48:33.720
 possessed man and, uh, he's like, you know, thrashing in the graveyards or whatever.

00:48:34.220 --> 00:48:37.200
 And I was kind of going into like, I know this kind of sounds crazy.

00:48:37.200 --> 00:48:39.540
 And she's like, no, like that actually makes a lot of sense.

00:48:39.620 --> 00:48:42.600
 I feel like I've had family members that have gone through something similar.

00:48:43.120 --> 00:48:45.080
 Like that part actually made sense.

00:48:45.140 --> 00:48:48.360
 It's more the like, I don't necessarily believe that Jesus actually cast them out.

00:48:48.580 --> 00:48:52.880
 You know, like it's just a totally different like conversation, but these are things I get

00:48:52.880 --> 00:48:58.180
 to actually have conversations about because we're focusing on non-Christians, not just

00:48:58.180 --> 00:48:59.060
 Christians.

00:48:59.640 --> 00:49:04.380
 And so my conversations are going to be based off of, let's not go.

00:49:04.500 --> 00:49:10.860
 I try not to, I, I, I don't want to even like read too far ahead into things.

00:49:10.860 --> 00:49:14.260
 I would rather it just be, here's what it is.

00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:15.420
 And do you have questions?

00:49:15.860 --> 00:49:18.840
 You know, I'm assuming, you know, and you, you never mentioned the name.

00:49:18.920 --> 00:49:19.880
 I don't want you to mention her name.

00:49:19.960 --> 00:49:22.940
 I don't even know if that I got the handle right or whatever.

00:49:24.920 --> 00:49:28.620
 I'm assuming this person's probably not going to walk into a physical church building anytime

00:49:28.620 --> 00:49:29.020
 soon.

00:49:29.240 --> 00:49:32.340
 No, no, she's told, she's told me it's funny.

00:49:32.360 --> 00:49:33.660
 Cause she's actually one of the biggest.

00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:39.220
 So she's one of the biggest people for saying that it's a church, like that saying that

00:49:39.220 --> 00:49:43.820
 our Twitch is a, is a church because everybody in chat will be like, well, I don't go to

00:49:43.820 --> 00:49:44.480
 church or whatever.

00:49:44.480 --> 00:49:46.140
 And she says, no, no, no.

00:49:46.200 --> 00:49:48.560
 Like she'll jump in and be like, I don't, no, no, I don't go to church.

00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:49.100
 You don't understand.

00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:50.520
 Like I'm not a church goer or anything.

00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:55.040
 I, I, but, but like this can be your church family because it's got a community and it's

00:49:55.040 --> 00:49:57.960
 got where you're, they're learning and they're loving and like, it's actually caring.

00:49:57.960 --> 00:50:01.380
 And so I wouldn't go to a church, but like this, this is actually a good place for

00:50:01.380 --> 00:50:03.320
 you to be if you don't want to go to church.

00:50:03.320 --> 00:50:04.260
 Like this is a good church.

00:50:04.660 --> 00:50:07.700
 So she, she calls it a church before I did.

00:50:07.780 --> 00:50:10.640
 Like I, I'm still like over here in Christian world.

00:50:10.680 --> 00:50:15.140
 Like, I don't know if this is a church, but she's, she's convinced as a Satanist that it's

00:50:15.140 --> 00:50:17.260
 a church and it's the only one that she's willing to go to.

00:50:17.540 --> 00:50:23.440
 So, so I'm not, I don't, I'm not going to like one way or the other, but just, you know,

00:50:23.660 --> 00:50:24.460
 she thinks it's a church.

00:50:25.060 --> 00:50:31.560
 Love, Love Clan, the, the digital church where, you know, Satanists are excited to attend

00:50:31.560 --> 00:50:37.760
 and, and, and, and, and engage in, in, in biblical conversations, biblical discussions.

00:50:37.760 --> 00:50:38.000
 Discussions.

00:50:38.380 --> 00:50:38.720
 Yeah, yeah.

00:50:39.120 --> 00:50:41.780
 Man, that, that, listen, I think that's beautiful.

00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:46.740
 I think you're, and, and whether, whether the Holy Spirit leads her to a place of understanding

00:50:46.740 --> 00:50:52.240
 or whether you're planting seeds for, for a future, I mean, God knows we don't, but, but

00:50:52.240 --> 00:50:58.220
 the fact that you're, you're engaging in digital community, that you're reaching a demographic,

00:50:58.380 --> 00:51:04.180
 a type of person, an age of, that's not engaging in the, in the physical buildings.

00:51:04.300 --> 00:51:06.060
 I love what's happening here.

00:51:06.720 --> 00:51:11.520
 You know, and I, and I know your heart from this where you're not, you know, you're a

00:51:11.520 --> 00:51:14.760
 former staff guy at a physical church.

00:51:14.760 --> 00:51:20.560
 You're, you're not doing this to demean or downcast the idea of a physical church, but

00:51:20.560 --> 00:51:25.040
 more towards you trying to reach a different person, which obviously from this story, my

00:51:25.040 --> 00:51:27.700
 gosh, that, that's, that person, shoot.

00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:32.100
 If that person walked into a physical building, how quick is the guest services people going

00:51:32.100 --> 00:51:33.280
 to walk them out of the building?

00:51:33.560 --> 00:51:33.760
 Sure.

00:51:33.840 --> 00:51:36.840
 So I just, I, I love, I love that story.

00:51:37.680 --> 00:51:39.720
 Pulled the thread a little bit on something here.

00:51:40.540 --> 00:51:42.820
 You know, and I know you've gone back and forth in, in this.

00:51:43.080 --> 00:51:45.080
 Are you, are you, do you consider yourself?

00:51:45.240 --> 00:51:49.600
 I don't, I don't want to paint the picture of finality here because fluid and nobody knows.

00:51:49.860 --> 00:51:51.260
 Are you a digital church?

00:51:52.580 --> 00:51:56.180
 Ecclesiologically, do you feel like you're, you're lining up to that next number of months

00:51:56.180 --> 00:51:56.780
 into this?

00:51:56.940 --> 00:51:58.440
 Is it more of a digital missionary?

00:51:58.900 --> 00:52:00.400
 Like what, what's your current vibe?

00:52:00.960 --> 00:52:03.000
 I, I would go with that.

00:52:03.420 --> 00:52:05.840
 This feels as close as I've ever felt to Axe.

00:52:05.860 --> 00:52:06.640
 Like you were saying.

00:52:06.900 --> 00:52:07.200
 Wow.

00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:11.460
 Like go to another, go to another country.

00:52:12.040 --> 00:52:15.260
 Like, you know, I feel like I'm in a, I'm in a totally different culture.

00:52:15.260 --> 00:52:16.660
 Like they speak a different language.

00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:21.680
 They, the way that they say, talk about games and the way that they relate with people.

00:52:21.680 --> 00:52:24.600
 And it's just a totally different place.

00:52:25.060 --> 00:52:30.860
 And it just feels more like Axe because I'm actually engaging on a daily basis.

00:52:30.860 --> 00:52:38.360
 That's the hardest part I think for church, for church, for local church is, um, and you

00:52:38.360 --> 00:52:42.620
 know, we've said it till our faces blew, but like the one hour on Sunday, not that like

00:52:42.620 --> 00:52:45.980
 all churches do that and it's, they can do small groups and whatever.

00:52:46.540 --> 00:52:53.420
 But I am just like, so in these people's lives at this point.

00:52:53.780 --> 00:52:56.180
 Like I'm, I mean, you've seen how often I stream.

00:52:56.260 --> 00:52:57.540
 I stream like all the time.

00:52:57.740 --> 00:53:01.800
 I'm going to, I'm literally going, you know, off this stream or off of this and I get to

00:53:01.800 --> 00:53:06.180
 go stream and I'll be streaming till, till I can't, till I pass out, you know?

00:53:06.260 --> 00:53:08.260
 And, um, it's a podcast.

00:53:08.420 --> 00:53:09.800
 I want to drill in a little bit here.

00:53:09.900 --> 00:53:11.360
 Let's, let's, let's put numbers on this.

00:53:11.420 --> 00:53:13.780
 It's three o'clock in the afternoon Eastern.

00:53:14.340 --> 00:53:14.460
 Yeah.

00:53:14.520 --> 00:53:14.940
 You're good.

00:53:15.040 --> 00:53:19.400
 You're, I've seen you normally broadcast like around four or five in the afternoon.

00:53:19.760 --> 00:53:20.220
 For my time.

00:53:20.340 --> 00:53:20.520
 Yeah.

00:53:20.880 --> 00:53:21.040
 Yeah.

00:53:21.060 --> 00:53:21.380
 Four.

00:53:21.620 --> 00:53:24.860
 And, and, and, and I feel like I've seen you, you know, cause I don't sleep at night

00:53:24.860 --> 00:53:26.440
 two, three in the mornings.

00:53:26.440 --> 00:53:28.860
 Not, not that unusual to go that late.

00:53:28.860 --> 00:53:31.500
 Oh no, I, I almost always go two, two, three.

00:53:31.600 --> 00:53:36.760
 I, I set it as like 10 is my end, but then I consider it after hours after that.

00:53:36.860 --> 00:53:38.420
 And that's where we can just do whatever.

00:53:38.660 --> 00:53:43.400
 And so the goal is like that way people have an out where they can go to sleep.

00:53:43.600 --> 00:53:47.360
 I think what I'll probably start doing is I mean, well, I don't know.

00:53:47.420 --> 00:53:47.780
 We'll decide.

00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:52.100
 Anyway, I need to decide when I'm going to pray for people because I don't, I have a hard

00:53:52.100 --> 00:53:56.680
 time because I'll, I'll very regularly go 4 PM to 8 AM.

00:53:58.140 --> 00:54:04.340
 Like I won't, I won't go to sleep till 8 AM so that I, I sleep long enough that then

00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:06.320
 I wake up and that's time to stream again.

00:54:06.600 --> 00:54:11.420
 So for, for the last six months, I would say I really, it hasn't been hard for me, especially

00:54:11.420 --> 00:54:12.420
 cause COVID has been happening.

00:54:12.580 --> 00:54:17.660
 We're supposed to be quarantined anyway, but I've pretty much just like lived my life online

00:54:17.660 --> 00:54:20.980
 of like, let's just live stream all the time and whatever I'm doing.

00:54:21.520 --> 00:54:27.640
 And, um, like it, it makes it, I know that's not possible for a lot of people cause they

00:54:27.640 --> 00:54:31.540
 have families like, and I've just been like, Hey, you guys are my family.

00:54:31.620 --> 00:54:32.640
 Like we're, we're going to hang out.

00:54:32.700 --> 00:54:33.320
 We're going to chat.

00:54:33.840 --> 00:54:37.900
 And, um, I have a local family that I will sometimes say like, Hey stream, I'm going to

00:54:37.900 --> 00:54:41.480
 be late because I'm going to go hang out with my local family or I'm going to go get coffee

00:54:41.480 --> 00:54:43.060
 with my sisters or whatever, you know?

00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:44.740
 But for the most part, yeah.

00:54:44.800 --> 00:54:54.300
 Like I see these guys so often that I, I mean, it's, I did, I accidentally did a 24 hour

00:54:54.300 --> 00:54:57.660
 live stream one time cause I didn't realize what the time was.

00:54:57.660 --> 00:55:00.140
 And then I looked at it and was like, I've been live for 20, 20 hours.

00:55:00.200 --> 00:55:01.460
 I might as well do 24 at this point.

00:55:01.460 --> 00:55:06.280
 Just to like say that I did it, you know, like I'm live way, way a lot.

00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:08.940
 But I mean, that, that's amazing.

00:55:09.100 --> 00:55:10.720
 Just even the practicalness of it.

00:55:10.760 --> 00:55:13.240
 I mean, let's call it, call it eight hours a day.

00:55:13.360 --> 00:55:19.260
 You're spending eight hours a day, not working towards producing an event or a weekend service.

00:55:19.360 --> 00:55:20.460
 You're eight hours a day.

00:55:20.540 --> 00:55:27.020
 You're engaging in conversations with people, broadcasting, building relationships with people,

00:55:27.520 --> 00:55:33.480
 being involved in their lives in a community where they're wanting to be open and engaging

00:55:33.480 --> 00:55:34.600
 in those conversations.

00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:39.740
 And they're open to this idea of connecting to a, to a digital church, even to the point

00:55:39.740 --> 00:55:44.080
 that a Satanist is arguing and validating the fact that that just sounds weird.

00:55:44.180 --> 00:55:45.620
 Satanists is validating the church.

00:55:45.920 --> 00:55:49.680
 But at the end of the day, they, they, they, they're looking for something like that.

00:55:49.680 --> 00:55:54.380
 The idea of being part of a, a digital church community, the people you're reaching, that's

00:55:54.380 --> 00:55:55.420
 not a foreign concept.

00:55:55.420 --> 00:55:56.520
 They, they want that.

00:55:56.600 --> 00:55:58.360
 They're, they're, they're hungry for that.

00:55:58.460 --> 00:56:00.760
 That, that's encouraging to me.

00:56:00.760 --> 00:56:08.620
 Like whether or not physical churches today, lead pastors, old missiologists will validate

00:56:08.620 --> 00:56:11.800
 whether or not that's an expression or church or not.

00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:12.880
 I, you know, it's funny.

00:56:12.960 --> 00:56:18.640
 I'm, I'm caring less and less about trying to prove the existence as much as celebrating the

00:56:18.640 --> 00:56:23.860
 stories of what you just told me of a Satanist who's reconciling and trying to figure out

00:56:23.860 --> 00:56:29.960
 what she believes in as wanting to get involved with a digital expression of church to seek

00:56:29.960 --> 00:56:31.320
 to find some of those answers.

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:34.120
 Like, like that's, you're the poster child, bro.

00:56:34.480 --> 00:56:35.460
 That, that's incredible.

00:56:36.020 --> 00:56:40.640
 Well, it just reminds me of like, when you say that, like, I'm trying less and less to,

00:56:40.700 --> 00:56:50.020
 to validate or to whatever, you know, I, I think the same way with like, you know, with

00:56:50.020 --> 00:56:53.960
 Jesus, they're like, yeah, it's like with the drunkards and like the tax collectors and

00:56:53.960 --> 00:56:54.320
 stuff.

00:56:54.320 --> 00:57:01.080
 And like, you know, I, I remember even like his, the people that are around him, apostles

00:57:01.080 --> 00:57:03.720
 being like, yo, that's not the right way to do that.

00:57:03.720 --> 00:57:05.580
 Like, if you do that, that's not going to be popular.

00:57:05.580 --> 00:57:08.240
 And like, don't, don't go, you know, pulling them aside.

00:57:08.320 --> 00:57:09.560
 Hey, you shouldn't say it that way.

00:57:09.560 --> 00:57:13.960
 Because if you say, you know, and it's like, get behind me, Satan, like, that's not, you

00:57:13.960 --> 00:57:16.020
 do not get what, you know, the goal is.

00:57:16.140 --> 00:57:20.180
 And, and so I feel the same way with this kind of now where like you're saying, I, whatever,

00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:24.120
 like if somebody wants to call it a, a, a mission, that's fine.

00:57:24.260 --> 00:57:29.280
 I would say, let's stop worrying about the like words and say, cause the words are what

00:57:29.280 --> 00:57:32.360
 was to worry about the why and like, why do churches exist?

00:57:33.640 --> 00:57:39.300
 Churches exist for the purpose of leading people, for discipleship, for growing, for hearing

00:57:39.300 --> 00:57:41.440
 from the word, for moving towards.

00:57:41.640 --> 00:57:47.640
 And if you think about like why churches exist, um, then look at those and go like, am I being

00:57:47.640 --> 00:57:48.780
 successful doing those things?

00:57:49.880 --> 00:57:52.140
 Because then I don't, you can call it whatever you want.

00:57:52.200 --> 00:57:53.100
 You could call it a Denny's.

00:57:53.240 --> 00:57:58.000
 I don't, I don't really care because if I'm doing it successfully, then you put whatever

00:57:58.000 --> 00:57:58.920
 name you want on it.

00:57:59.300 --> 00:58:05.480
 Like, um, and so that, that's like, there's the people, the people that I am trying to

00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:12.200
 reach, um, don't want to go to church anyway, was something that we talked about, I think

00:58:12.200 --> 00:58:14.160
 earlier is, so it's actually funny.

00:58:14.260 --> 00:58:15.160
 It might hurt me.

00:58:15.280 --> 00:58:19.100
 You might think that you're being like snide and like, it's not calling it a church and

00:58:19.100 --> 00:58:21.140
 it's not a church because your church needs to blah, blah, blah, or whatever.

00:58:21.180 --> 00:58:24.900
 I'm like, you don't realize that most of the people that I'm trying to reach, if I

00:58:24.900 --> 00:58:26.360
 called it a church, they wouldn't come.

00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:31.640
 Like you, the way that, the way that all the rules that you put on what church is actually

00:58:31.640 --> 00:58:33.540
 means they don't even want to be there.

00:58:33.820 --> 00:58:37.400
 It, it's more like, I'm just here to like reach people.

00:58:37.940 --> 00:58:40.420
 And if you want to call that a church, that's fine.

00:58:40.520 --> 00:58:42.740
 But if you don't want to call it a church, they probably didn't either.

00:58:42.840 --> 00:58:45.080
 And that's also okay because I'm still reaching them.

00:58:45.560 --> 00:58:54.780
 So it is, it is a, um, yeah, it can get, it can get hard because obviously, like you

00:58:54.780 --> 00:58:59.700
 mentioned, we've had a lot of people that have been kind of against in the past, um, some

00:58:59.700 --> 00:59:02.020
 of the things that we were doing, not even against it.

00:59:02.020 --> 00:59:04.520
 I think they were just against like calling it a church.

00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:06.360
 And I realized I didn't care.

00:59:06.500 --> 00:59:08.540
 Like I, like, I don't even need to call it a church.

00:59:08.720 --> 00:59:10.140
 It doesn't matter to me anymore.

00:59:10.300 --> 00:59:14.020
 So yeah, I, I don't, um, I'm fine calling it a church.

00:59:14.100 --> 00:59:20.140
 I think it is a church in that I think it's very, very close to what Acts is, um, describing

00:59:20.140 --> 00:59:25.880
 of a, of a group of people, koinonia, the idea of having people in close proximity who

00:59:25.880 --> 00:59:30.100
 are, um, engaging in all ways, giving as each other has need.

00:59:30.660 --> 00:59:35.260
 Um, that I'm getting, I'm on the receiving end of that for the first time where like

00:59:35.260 --> 00:59:37.300
 normally I would, I would give it to others as a need.

00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:38.000
 I'm now in need.

00:59:38.000 --> 00:59:39.200
 Like I live in a basement.

00:59:39.320 --> 00:59:40.320
 I don't have funds.

00:59:40.500 --> 00:59:41.480
 This is my only job.

00:59:42.020 --> 00:59:45.000
 And, um, there are people that are supporting me financially.

00:59:45.420 --> 00:59:47.540
 And, and that's like amazing.

00:59:47.540 --> 00:59:49.100
 It's the first time that that's happened.

00:59:49.200 --> 00:59:52.760
 We've mentioned before that I don't have a donation step for the first time I'm having

00:59:52.760 --> 00:59:55.900
 donations because I don't have a job and I'm doing this full time.

00:59:55.900 --> 00:59:58.780
 And I, I finally five years later, feel called to do that.

00:59:59.300 --> 01:00:04.960
 And, um, it's been cool to see people that are in the ministry, like people that are seeing

01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:09.020
 what's happening, seeing how I'm praying for Pings, seeing that people are coming to our

01:00:09.020 --> 01:00:14.360
 Bible study who, Bible discussion, eesh, Bible discussion, who would, um, who never would

01:00:14.360 --> 01:00:14.800
 have normally.

01:00:14.940 --> 01:00:16.620
 And they're like, I want to be a part of that.

01:00:16.880 --> 01:00:20.160
 And so they, um, are helping me financially.

01:00:20.580 --> 01:00:24.240
 Um, I, so far I'd say Twitch is paying for my, my meals.

01:00:25.260 --> 01:00:28.260
 It's like enough to kind of pay for like food and stuff like that.

01:00:28.260 --> 01:00:32.840
 And I still feel like I need to get another, um, like side hustle or something like that,

01:00:32.840 --> 01:00:37.300
 that can help if I want to ever move out of, uh, the basement that I'm living in, uh, as

01:00:37.300 --> 01:00:38.440
 cool as it is, you know?

01:00:38.880 --> 01:00:44.560
 So, um, that might be the case, but I'm, for now I'm, I just praise God that I'm able

01:00:44.560 --> 01:00:47.300
 to do what I'm doing and we'll do it for as long as we can.

01:00:47.540 --> 01:00:48.900
 So awesome.

01:00:49.060 --> 01:00:49.320
 Yes.

01:00:49.460 --> 01:00:54.740
 So, so much good here, by the way, in the show notes, we'll put links to, to Jade's website

01:00:54.740 --> 01:00:59.560
 information, things like this, you know, I'll, I'll, it's maybe a weird plug.

01:00:59.600 --> 01:01:05.400
 I don't know that I've ever done this on the podcast, but it's, it's into the year 2020.

01:01:05.680 --> 01:01:08.840
 If somebody out there is listening, it's like, Hey, I want to make an end of the year gift.

01:01:09.220 --> 01:01:11.120
 We'll, we'll, we'll put links to it in the show.

01:01:11.500 --> 01:01:12.880
 Give money to Jade, man.

01:01:13.280 --> 01:01:18.040
 Uh, he's, he's, he's living in his basement is, is, uh, you know, at, at the house and,

01:01:18.100 --> 01:01:22.540
 and he's got a really nice setup, but, uh, yeah, I mean, help, help, help a guy out.

01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:24.380
 Maybe there's an option to do something there.

01:01:24.500 --> 01:01:28.200
 So, uh, Hey, listen, this has been a great conversation.

01:01:28.560 --> 01:01:33.120
 Every time I talk with, like, it's, I love having the, you're probably one of my favorite

01:01:33.120 --> 01:01:36.320
 guests that we've had on just super relaxed.

01:01:36.480 --> 01:01:37.140
 Oh my gosh.

01:01:37.220 --> 01:01:40.120
 Oh, you know, I just, I'm feeling the love, man.

01:01:40.120 --> 01:01:43.820
 Just like deep down inside, or maybe that's the COVID cough I have.

01:01:43.880 --> 01:01:44.120
 I'm kidding.

01:01:44.340 --> 01:01:44.820
 I don't want COVID.

01:01:44.900 --> 01:01:45.600
 That was inappropriate.

01:01:45.740 --> 01:01:46.060
 I'm sorry.

01:01:46.460 --> 01:01:49.920
 Hey, um, let's, let's, let's do this to wrap up, man.

01:01:49.940 --> 01:01:52.560
 Like this is, this is just so golden in the show notes.

01:01:52.560 --> 01:01:56.960
 We'll go back and we'll include all the links to the previous conversations.

01:01:56.960 --> 01:02:03.220
 Like this is just such a, a rich ongoing conversation, seeing this digital expression of church.

01:02:03.220 --> 01:02:09.300
 I mean, I, I, I think literally get born on and through these conversations as you've, you

01:02:09.300 --> 01:02:13.740
 know, I think we were having conversations before you're even getting started and different

01:02:13.740 --> 01:02:14.740
 steps along the way.

01:02:14.920 --> 01:02:18.860
 So that's how I reached out to you originally is because I saw one of your blog posts.

01:02:19.060 --> 01:02:21.120
 I Googled, I think, online small groups.

01:02:21.380 --> 01:02:23.360
 Oh, my Google's activating when I said that.

01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:29.680
 Um, I Googled like online small groups and your thing popped up as like a, it wasn't a

01:02:29.680 --> 01:02:29.920
 podcast.

01:02:29.920 --> 01:02:35.320
 It was like a, just a post of that you had done with somebody and somebody was trying it

01:02:35.320 --> 01:02:37.320
 or something, this was before COVID for sure.

01:02:37.840 --> 01:02:42.580
 And I was like, Hey, I'm just curious, like, have, have they tried it again?

01:02:42.700 --> 01:02:43.300
 Is it working?

01:02:43.520 --> 01:02:44.020
 Is it whatever?

01:02:44.320 --> 01:02:46.500
 And then we, and then we started doing it and trying it.

01:02:46.560 --> 01:02:50.660
 And like, yeah, it's been, it's been a long, long time going since that.

01:02:50.760 --> 01:02:51.400
 So, yeah.

01:02:51.760 --> 01:02:53.240
 Love, love seeing it grow.

01:02:53.240 --> 01:02:57.820
 Love the fact that now you're multiplying and starting to challenge some others to, to

01:02:57.820 --> 01:02:59.620
 step up and, and grow into it.

01:02:59.680 --> 01:03:04.940
 And you've definitely have been a resource for others, even as I'm working with current

01:03:04.940 --> 01:03:09.080
 church planners that are getting started in this and having, telling some of your stories

01:03:09.080 --> 01:03:14.540
 and, and getting you connected, uh, with some of those, it's, it's, the future is, is

01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:14.960
 bright.

01:03:15.380 --> 01:03:19.840
 Uh, and so we're, we're literally paving the path right now, uh, for this stuff.

01:03:19.880 --> 01:03:20.540
 And so it's golden.

01:03:20.860 --> 01:03:24.300
 Hey man, just as we're, we're landing the plane here and any closing thoughts?

01:03:25.140 --> 01:03:26.660
 You have said it all.

01:03:27.060 --> 01:03:28.580
 You are, you are good.

01:03:28.860 --> 01:03:31.140
 There's always, there's always something else, but.

01:03:31.460 --> 01:03:33.660
 You leave everything on the table, bro.

01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:35.480
 You're like, you're like on the field.

01:03:35.620 --> 01:03:36.380
 You're done.

01:03:36.640 --> 01:03:40.020
 You've given it your all and you're ready to wrap.

01:03:40.300 --> 01:03:40.300
 So.

01:03:40.400 --> 01:03:41.840
 I'm open, I'm open to questions.

01:03:41.900 --> 01:03:43.000
 If anybody has questions.

01:03:44.660 --> 01:03:48.300
 Um, we'll, we'll put his contact info in as well.

01:03:48.360 --> 01:03:52.260
 And I will find, uh, I tell you what, send, send me, I'm sure I can find it.

01:03:52.300 --> 01:03:58.420
 But, uh, uh, if you've never watched the Twitch stream, um, watch him on Twitch.

01:03:58.420 --> 01:04:00.200
 Like we'll, we'll put the links in there.

01:04:00.940 --> 01:04:04.040
 Honestly, like I'm, once again, it's not my generation.

01:04:04.540 --> 01:04:06.940
 I don't know that I really understand what's going on.

01:04:06.940 --> 01:04:09.060
 Like I see, I think I see the game.

01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:10.420
 I see the chat.

01:04:10.680 --> 01:04:15.660
 I really don't understand why there's like 50 different Pokemon running around at the bottom

01:04:15.660 --> 01:04:16.340
 of the screen.

01:04:16.480 --> 01:04:18.220
 And one of them has my name on it.

01:04:18.260 --> 01:04:19.540
 I don't know what I'm supposed to do.

01:04:19.900 --> 01:04:22.460
 Uh, but it's, it's, it's intriguing to me.

01:04:22.600 --> 01:04:27.740
 And, and on top of that, just even the, the interface, but on top of that, it's intriguing.

01:04:28.220 --> 01:04:33.880
 Like, this is how that generation or those generations connect, engage.

01:04:34.100 --> 01:04:38.080
 That's how they have, like to use that as a front door.

01:04:38.560 --> 01:04:44.920
 As, as a 43 year old dad of two, I'm not like, there's no way I would, I would as a person

01:04:44.920 --> 01:04:45.660
 connect with this.

01:04:45.880 --> 01:04:49.980
 That being said, I can totally, whenever my kids see it running, daddy, what's that?

01:04:50.060 --> 01:04:52.060
 And they're enthralled with it.

01:04:52.160 --> 01:04:53.860
 Like they just, they're, they're watching it.

01:04:53.880 --> 01:04:55.080
 They want to watch it with me.

01:04:55.160 --> 01:04:57.060
 And, and one of, like one of them was funny.

01:04:57.120 --> 01:04:59.060
 My son was like, can I, can I chat with him?

01:04:59.060 --> 01:05:00.840
 And I didn't have it hooked up on the Apple TV.

01:05:00.860 --> 01:05:02.480
 And I was like, no, you can't right now.

01:05:03.020 --> 01:05:05.000
 He's like, he wants to get back into it.

01:05:05.000 --> 01:05:10.820
 So, um, you know, uh, my, my son may become your biggest, uh, biggest fan out there in,

01:05:10.820 --> 01:05:11.800
 uh, in, in Twitch.

01:05:11.800 --> 01:05:16.800
 So we'll include that information, but, you know, super, super excited about the road that

01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:17.280
 you're on.

01:05:17.640 --> 01:05:19.660
 Um, the lessons that you're learning.

01:05:20.060 --> 01:05:25.420
 And, and, uh, the, uh, you know, your opportunities, uh, that God has in store for you.

01:05:25.480 --> 01:05:28.180
 Love, love your heart, love your passion for following the spirit.

01:05:28.740 --> 01:05:31.840
 And, um, honestly, I've been praying for you.

01:05:31.840 --> 01:05:37.680
 We'll continue to pray for you specifically that God's got, uh, that God will keep driving

01:05:37.680 --> 01:05:43.580
 you and directing you as you're figuring out how to have these paths and connect with Satanists

01:05:43.580 --> 01:05:46.100
 and get them plugged into your, that's just so much.

01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:47.880
 Hey, so we're, we're going to wrap here.

01:05:47.980 --> 01:05:49.580
 Jay, man, thanks for jumping on this.

01:05:49.800 --> 01:05:50.180
 Love you, bro.

01:05:50.600 --> 01:05:54.480
 Uh, for Jade, this is Jeff with the church, digital and stadia church planning.

01:05:54.740 --> 01:05:56.420
 Thanks for joining us here for the pod.

01:05:56.560 --> 01:05:58.040
 And, uh, we'll see you next time on the show.

01:05:58.240 --> 01:05:58.740
 Y'all have a good day.