WEBVTT

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 All right, we got episode 108 of the Church Digital Podcast

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 powered by Stadia Church Planting.

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 I'm excited to share this episode with you.

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 We're bringing in probably one of my favorite

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 digital-only church planters.

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 Actually, check that.

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 We're bringing in one of my favorite

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 avatar church planters.

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 Now, that's a new term for it.

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 We're bringing in DJ Soto.

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 Let me back up and explain this idea of avatar church.

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 So we've got three different models of church.

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 You guys have heard me talk publicly about two.

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 We've got this idea of the established physical church,

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 the church that's at every street corner,

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 the church that's in your community.

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 It's got a physical street address.

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 The 99.99% of people attended these churches pre-COVID.

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 And so like this is the physical church.

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 Now, I would probably suggest at this point in 2020

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 that every church should be phygital.

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 There's a physical footprint

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 and there's a digital footprint of that church.

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 That's why Stadia, we use the term phygital,

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 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L.

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 And so all these churches are phygital.

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 But I think there's a second model of church.

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 And the second model of church that I would suggest

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 is these digital-only church plans.

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 Now, we've brought some of these people on the podcast.

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 You've heard from, you know,

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 Angela Craig, Pursued Church Live,

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 who's running an Assemblies of God church on Facebook.

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 We've, even just recently,

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 we heard from Jay Earhart,

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 who's running Love Clan,

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 this video game church through Discord,

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 as well as through Twitch.

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 And so like these are digital-only expressions of church.

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 There's no large gathering in a building.

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 There's no physical footprint.

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 They're aimed at digital community

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 because when they look at digital community,

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 they see a community that's worthy of a church.

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 And so they want to insert church into video games,

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 into Twitch, into Facebook.

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 And so that's the second model.

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 The third model here is what my friend with DJ Soto

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 is doing by creating an avatar church

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 because he's doing this in virtual reality.

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 Now, as I've been studying the three models,

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 the physical slash phygital,

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 the digital-only avatar,

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 to be honest,

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 this virtual reality thing

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 is completely different than the two.

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 It's completely different than the digital-only plan.

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 It's completely different

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 than what's happening in the physical,

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 phygital model.

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 Like what it takes to run,

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 what it takes to operate,

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 what it takes to lead.

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 How do we manage this?

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 And so it's this completely

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 different approach to church.

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 Now, listen,

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 coming out of this COVID season,

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 whatever the next normal is,

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 we need to be multimodal.

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 There's going to be all sorts of different churches

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 that are going to be created.

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 There's all sorts of different ideas

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 that are out there.

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 And honestly, there needs to be.

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 In this season,

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 there's so many different ideas.

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 We're all just trying to find our rhythm

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 and trying to subscribe to one specific plan.

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 Well, I think COVID accelerated us

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 away from that idea.

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 And now coming out of this multimodal,

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 I think you're going to see,

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 out of this COVID season,

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 you're going to see digital churches

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 do their thing.

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 You're going to see digital-only church plants

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 start to rise in popularity.

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 And I think you're going to see Avatar Church.

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 I think you're going to see that blow up

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 in the next couple of years.

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 And DJ Soto is a pioneer in this area.

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 And so in this podcast,

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 we dive in.

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 What's going on in VR Church?

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 Where are you growing?

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 Where are you expanding?

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 What does multiplication look like?

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 How are you doing what you're doing?

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 What does Christmas look like at VR Church?

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 Some really interesting conversations

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 centered around virtual reality.

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 And then I pull a thread a little bit.

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 And I'm excited about this one.

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 What is the bleeding edge guy?

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 Consider bleeding edge.

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 So DJ's already on the edge

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 doing this stuff in virtual reality,

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 creating these Avatar Churches.

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 What's the crazy idea that DJ's thinking?

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 And by the way, it's awesome.

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 It gets into this idea of,

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 yeah, you know what?

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 I'll go ahead and tease it.

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 I'll tell you.

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 MMO, video games.

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 How can we use Final Fantasy XIV

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 to connect people to Christ?

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 It's a radical concept.

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 Listen, half of you don't even know

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 what Final Fantasy XIV is.

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 The other half are Googling MMO right now.

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 And when you're realizing what I'm talking about,

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 you're probably freaking out

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 because you can't do church in a video game.

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 Are you kidding me?

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 Actually, I don't think I am.

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 I think there's some legs to this.

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 And we're going to talk about it here in the podcast.

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 So hey, for the conversation,

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 I'm bringing in DJ Soto,

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 lead pastor, virtual reality church,

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 VR church,

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 in a conversation that I'm simply calling

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 virtual reality, Final Fantasy, and the church.

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 Okay, everybody, here you go.

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 Having you and even getting to know you

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 outside of, you know,

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 through some of the contacts with Stadia,

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 but tell us here a little bit,

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 some of the audience that's listening

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 and tell us about what VR church is.

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 Maybe they don't know.

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 Maybe they haven't heard

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 some of those older episodes.

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 And so, yeah, like you're doing church

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 in virtual reality

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 and somebody's head out there just exploded.

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 So tell us a little bit,

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 like what VR church is

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 and maybe some of the improvements,

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 some of the expansion that you've done

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 maybe since the last time we talked.

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 Yeah, VR church was starting in 2017.

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 I guess technically 2016

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 is when we first started holding church services.

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 But when it transitioned into a community,

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 that was in 2017.

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 And I was a pastor at a physical church

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 for many years.

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 I felt God called me to do something new.

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 And what I thought new meant

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 was physical church plants.

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 But about that time in 2016,

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 the Oculus Rift came out.

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 This is the first consumer level virtual reality.

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 And VR has been around for a while for,

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 I don't know,

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 there's different eras of VR,

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 but not necessarily to the degree

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 where you could walk into Best Buy

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 and go to Amazon and purchase it.

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 That's a new,

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 we've never seen that before.

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 And so in 2016,

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 when VR was made to the consumer

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 at a very compelling level,

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 like an Xbox or a PlayStation or iPhone,

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 it's very functional

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 and very user-friendly,

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 use at home.

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 We jumped into it

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 because we're a family of technologists.

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 And we got into it

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 and just discovered the metaverse.

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 You know, people from all over the world

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 and their avatars,

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 you know,

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 in this immersive setting,

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 walking up to them,

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 shaking hands,

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 saying hello,

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 experiencing these events.

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 And that's when VR Church started to form

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 because I saw this unique opportunity

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 that I thought was extremely compelling

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 to experience the life of a church

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 in virtual reality.

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 So it's in a short,

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 we launched Virtual Reality Church.

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 It exists entirely in the metaverse.

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 We don't have a physical location.

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 And so at the time,

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 that was pretty,

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 you know,

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 ridiculed or disregarded,

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 maybe is a better word,

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 maybe not necessarily ridiculed.

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 But it's interesting to see now

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 how the attitude has changed quite a bit

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 as far as Virtual Reality Church is concerned.

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 And so,

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 yeah,

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 it's been a unique and awesome journey.

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 We fundamentally,

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 my wife and I are at the core,

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 our church planners.

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 So we've been planning multiple churches

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 within virtual reality.

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 So you can think of them like virtual,

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 or you can think of them like cities.

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 If you see like New York,

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 Paris,

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 Tokyo,

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 in the same way,

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 but different in VR,

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 there's these metaverses.

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 Altspace,

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 VRChat,

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 Rec Room,

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 Facebook has their own city

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 that's coming out.

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 And so we've planted

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 in all these different cities.

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 And so fundamentally,

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 VR Church at its core

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 is a church planning movement

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 in virtual reality.

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 And so we've been doing that.

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 If we want to borrow

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 physical church terms,

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 we have five campuses

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 or maybe we call them church plans.

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 We have five church plans.

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 And across the metaverse,

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 different time zones,

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 some for the European,

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 some for UK,

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 all English speaking at this point,

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 but we're working on

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 an international service as well.

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 It's been in the back of our mind.

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 One we've experimented with

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 and it's just fantastic.

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 It went really well.

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 It's just a matter of

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 getting it integrated

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 into our systems

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 and our capacity.

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 And so, yeah,

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 that's where we're at.

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 We went through a big reorganization

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 this past fall,

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 big one,

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 where at the core of that

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 was when we started VR Church,

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 we tried to replicate

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 the physical elements of the church,

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 the physical structure,

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 the physical construct.

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 There's not necessarily

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 anything wrong with that,

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 but we're in a different universe.

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 And so what we felt like

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 God was leading us to do

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 was not replicate,

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 but reimagine.

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 So we've just been,

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 we went through

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 a big reimagination process

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 this past fall.

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 And there's a lot of,

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 you know,

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 people may wonder

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 what's that about.

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 And I think it's just the way

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 that we approach church.

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 The,

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 I don't know,

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 the attitudes,

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 or maybe not attitudes,

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 but the way we express it

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 has definitely been different

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 in the metaverse

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 and the way we deliver sermons.

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 They're not on stage.

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 We experience them.

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 We build these worlds.

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 So that reimagination

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 is leading us

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 to many beautiful things.

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 And we're still seeking

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 what that means.

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 I don't think we've answered

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 the question we were asking,

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 what does it mean to reimagine?

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 I think we've begun

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 to answer it

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 and we're starting

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 to see the fruit of that.

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 So yeah,

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 this fall was pretty hectic,

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 but looking forward to

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 how we've set things up now

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 for the future,

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 I think is this really,

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 just really going to be

00:09:26.840 --> 00:09:27.860
 just positive

00:09:27.860 --> 00:09:29.020
 and exponential.

00:09:29.580 --> 00:09:29.700
 Well,

00:09:29.780 --> 00:09:30.440
 I tell you what,

00:09:30.460 --> 00:09:31.700
 COVID certainly helped

00:09:31.700 --> 00:09:32.620
 with accelerating

00:09:32.620 --> 00:09:33.900
 and getting more people

00:09:33.900 --> 00:09:35.300
 engaged in virtual reality

00:09:35.300 --> 00:09:36.540
 and more people engaged

00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:38.220
 with a digital church

00:09:38.220 --> 00:09:39.320
 and things like that.

00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:40.680
 And I want to pull a thread here

00:09:40.680 --> 00:09:41.560
 a little bit

00:09:41.560 --> 00:09:42.620
 because we were,

00:09:42.740 --> 00:09:43.000
 you know,

00:09:43.300 --> 00:09:45.240
 obviously you hinted towards it.

00:09:45.580 --> 00:09:47.060
 It's a reimagining

00:09:47.060 --> 00:09:47.860
 that are recreating

00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.920
 in virtual reality.

00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:50.600
 And I steal that language

00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:51.280
 a lot from you.

00:09:51.340 --> 00:09:51.940
 I give you credit

00:09:51.940 --> 00:09:52.560
 half the time,

00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:53.240
 I want to tell you,

00:09:53.540 --> 00:09:54.940
 when I'm talking towards

00:09:54.940 --> 00:09:57.100
 like planting digital churches.

00:09:57.200 --> 00:09:58.060
 Example like,

00:09:58.100 --> 00:09:58.620
 you know,

00:09:58.700 --> 00:09:59.300
 Jade Earhart,

00:09:59.420 --> 00:10:00.660
 who's a mutual friend,

00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:01.700
 actually was on the podcast

00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:02.480
 just last week.

00:10:02.540 --> 00:10:03.160
 It was some of the stuff

00:10:03.160 --> 00:10:04.140
 he's doing with Love Clan.

00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:07.340
 So like even what Jade's doing

00:10:07.340 --> 00:10:09.600
 with creating a digital expression

00:10:09.600 --> 00:10:10.140
 of church,

00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:11.920
 there's certainly a level

00:10:11.920 --> 00:10:13.080
 of reimagination

00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:14.560
 getting into some of the stuff

00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:16.160
 that he's doing with Twitch

00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:18.300
 and using that as a front door

00:10:18.300 --> 00:10:19.720
 to feed into disciple making.

00:10:19.880 --> 00:10:21.060
 And so there's a level

00:10:21.060 --> 00:10:22.000
 of reimagining

00:10:22.000 --> 00:10:23.280
 towards digital churches.

00:10:23.820 --> 00:10:25.000
 But I haven't really

00:10:25.000 --> 00:10:26.040
 talked about this much.

00:10:26.140 --> 00:10:27.860
 There's like this third category

00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:29.220
 that I would say

00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:29.940
 where you really get

00:10:29.940 --> 00:10:30.600
 into avatar

00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:32.040
 because the jump

00:10:32.040 --> 00:10:32.880
 between physical

00:10:32.880 --> 00:10:34.740
 to a digital only expression

00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:35.160
 of church,

00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:36.220
 I think is one jump.

00:10:36.740 --> 00:10:38.960
 But even how avatars operate

00:10:38.960 --> 00:10:40.260
 as I've been more,

00:10:40.460 --> 00:10:40.860
 you know,

00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:41.880
 getting connected

00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:42.920
 into that culture

00:10:42.920 --> 00:10:43.980
 and hearing stories

00:10:43.980 --> 00:10:44.780
 and seeing what's happening,

00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:46.820
 avatar is a completely

00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:47.540
 separate thing

00:10:47.540 --> 00:10:48.100
 than the physical

00:10:48.100 --> 00:10:49.840
 or even the digital only.

00:10:50.020 --> 00:10:51.040
 Would you agree with that?

00:10:51.300 --> 00:10:52.760
 Yeah, yeah, it's different.

00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:54.600
 And so here's,

00:10:54.680 --> 00:10:55.640
 and this is where it's tough

00:10:55.640 --> 00:10:56.400
 to have this conversation.

00:10:56.520 --> 00:10:57.220
 I was talking about this

00:10:57.220 --> 00:10:57.700
 with somebody

00:10:57.700 --> 00:10:58.500
 is that oftentimes

00:10:58.500 --> 00:11:00.520
 like virtual reality

00:11:00.520 --> 00:11:01.720
 or let's say digital churches

00:11:01.720 --> 00:11:03.460
 get pitted against physical.

00:11:03.660 --> 00:11:04.240
 So we're always trying

00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:05.200
 to compare the two.

00:11:05.780 --> 00:11:06.720
 And I'm trying to,

00:11:06.720 --> 00:11:07.960
 and I'm trying to get away

00:11:07.960 --> 00:11:08.380
 from that.

00:11:08.460 --> 00:11:09.100
 I'm trying to get away

00:11:09.100 --> 00:11:09.820
 that they all,

00:11:10.300 --> 00:11:10.700
 that maybe,

00:11:10.940 --> 00:11:11.260
 you know,

00:11:11.280 --> 00:11:12.020
 especially in COVID,

00:11:12.140 --> 00:11:13.040
 we've have come

00:11:13.040 --> 00:11:14.480
 and evolved to the understanding

00:11:14.480 --> 00:11:15.740
 that they both can exist

00:11:15.740 --> 00:11:17.360
 and they don't need to say

00:11:17.360 --> 00:11:18.060
 which one's better,

00:11:18.160 --> 00:11:18.980
 which one does this better.

00:11:19.040 --> 00:11:20.960
 We can just do well in physical.

00:11:21.100 --> 00:11:21.920
 We can do well

00:11:21.920 --> 00:11:23.920
 in digital and virtual reality.

00:11:24.940 --> 00:11:26.560
 So that's,

00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:27.820
 that's just a long way of saying

00:11:27.820 --> 00:11:28.360
 when I say,

00:11:28.480 --> 00:11:29.940
 when I talk about avatars

00:11:29.940 --> 00:11:31.060
 and interactions,

00:11:31.060 --> 00:11:35.300
 it is a superior experience.

00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:36.120
 Again,

00:11:36.200 --> 00:11:36.900
 and the reason I say

00:11:36.900 --> 00:11:38.840
 when I bring that qualification

00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:40.240
 is because I don't want it

00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:41.140
 to sound like it's better

00:11:41.140 --> 00:11:41.660
 than physical.

00:11:41.760 --> 00:11:43.580
 It just stands as its own

00:11:43.580 --> 00:11:45.500
 as a superior experience.

00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:46.460
 And that's because

00:11:46.460 --> 00:11:47.180
 you're meeting people

00:11:47.180 --> 00:11:48.120
 face to face again.

00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:49.420
 You think of like

00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:52.160
 just walking up to someone,

00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:52.940
 seeing them,

00:11:53.020 --> 00:11:53.200
 you know,

00:11:53.260 --> 00:11:53.880
 shaking hands,

00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:54.500
 saying hello.

00:11:55.480 --> 00:11:56.980
 And it's just that

00:11:56.980 --> 00:11:59.240
 immersive face to face elements

00:11:59.240 --> 00:12:00.600
 that I believe

00:12:00.600 --> 00:12:01.040
 Church Online

00:12:01.040 --> 00:12:02.060
 is going to evolve into.

00:12:02.240 --> 00:12:02.720
 Because Church Online

00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:03.360
 right now is

00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:05.740
 in a 2D environment.

00:12:06.220 --> 00:12:06.340
 You know,

00:12:06.380 --> 00:12:07.860
 we're consuming

00:12:07.860 --> 00:12:09.360
 a broadcast

00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:10.820
 and perhaps there's a chat

00:12:10.820 --> 00:12:11.400
 with interaction,

00:12:11.660 --> 00:12:12.480
 which is fantastic.

00:12:12.600 --> 00:12:13.300
 I love that

00:12:13.300 --> 00:12:14.540
 form of Church Online.

00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:15.740
 But then Church Online

00:12:15.740 --> 00:12:16.320
 in the future

00:12:16.320 --> 00:12:16.940
 is going to evolve

00:12:16.940 --> 00:12:18.560
 into 3D interactive

00:12:18.560 --> 00:12:19.860
 virtual reality environments

00:12:19.860 --> 00:12:20.800
 and perhaps even

00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:22.080
 augmented reality environments.

00:12:22.240 --> 00:12:22.700
 And maybe there's

00:12:22.700 --> 00:12:23.300
 a mix of two

00:12:23.300 --> 00:12:23.980
 and, you know,

00:12:24.000 --> 00:12:24.700
 we can throw on terms

00:12:24.700 --> 00:12:25.960
 like mixed reality

00:12:25.960 --> 00:12:27.160
 would probably be

00:12:27.160 --> 00:12:27.740
 a better term.

00:12:28.240 --> 00:12:28.700
 And so,

00:12:28.940 --> 00:12:30.340
 I think that people,

00:12:30.600 --> 00:12:31.280
 when they haven't

00:12:31.280 --> 00:12:31.940
 experienced VR

00:12:31.940 --> 00:12:33.280
 and they don't

00:12:33.280 --> 00:12:34.540
 know much about

00:12:34.540 --> 00:12:35.140
 the avatars,

00:12:35.260 --> 00:12:36.160
 they think it's weird

00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:36.620
 because it is.

00:12:36.680 --> 00:12:37.140
 When you see like

00:12:37.140 --> 00:12:37.880
 a 2D image

00:12:37.880 --> 00:12:38.760
 of your church,

00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:39.180
 it doesn't seem

00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:39.660
 that compelling.

00:12:39.720 --> 00:12:40.440
 But when you're there,

00:12:40.500 --> 00:12:41.520
 it's completely different.

00:12:41.880 --> 00:12:42.480
 When you're walking

00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:43.080
 up to people,

00:12:43.200 --> 00:12:44.940
 you see Jim

00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:45.740
 on the other side

00:12:45.740 --> 00:12:46.160
 of the room,

00:12:46.260 --> 00:12:46.960
 you see Sue over there,

00:12:47.000 --> 00:12:47.760
 you want to go talk to her.

00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:48.640
 It brings back

00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:50.000
 that serendipitous

00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:50.900
 interactions

00:12:50.900 --> 00:12:52.040
 that perhaps

00:12:52.040 --> 00:12:53.800
 a 2D broadcast

00:12:53.800 --> 00:12:54.860
 is limited to.

00:12:55.520 --> 00:12:55.900
 And so,

00:12:56.380 --> 00:12:58.300
 and so I think

00:12:58.300 --> 00:12:59.380
 I've talked about that before,

00:12:59.480 --> 00:13:00.540
 like those avatar interactions.

00:13:00.740 --> 00:13:01.240
 But one,

00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:01.840
 some of the things

00:13:01.840 --> 00:13:02.760
 I haven't talked about

00:13:02.760 --> 00:13:05.100
 is the sophistication

00:13:05.100 --> 00:13:05.980
 that these avatars

00:13:05.980 --> 00:13:06.680
 are being developed.

00:13:06.860 --> 00:13:07.920
 So right now,

00:13:08.140 --> 00:13:08.480
 or no,

00:13:08.540 --> 00:13:09.180
 things have evolved.

00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:09.840
 There's kind of like

00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:10.560
 a version two

00:13:10.560 --> 00:13:11.440
 of avatars happening

00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:12.200
 in the metaverse

00:13:12.200 --> 00:13:13.060
 across all of them.

00:13:13.420 --> 00:13:14.040
 But version one

00:13:14.040 --> 00:13:14.640
 kind of looked like

00:13:14.640 --> 00:13:15.940
 the Nintendo Wii's

00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:16.500
 characters,

00:13:16.680 --> 00:13:17.160
 not very,

00:13:17.540 --> 00:13:18.140
 just kind of like

00:13:18.140 --> 00:13:18.600
 polygon,

00:13:19.000 --> 00:13:19.160
 you know,

00:13:19.240 --> 00:13:19.960
 and I think

00:13:19.960 --> 00:13:20.780
 when you looked at it,

00:13:20.820 --> 00:13:21.060
 you go,

00:13:21.120 --> 00:13:21.240
 oh,

00:13:21.240 --> 00:13:21.980
 that's not very interesting.

00:13:22.140 --> 00:13:22.680
 Version two

00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:23.780
 is becoming more expressive

00:13:23.780 --> 00:13:24.480
 with eyes

00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:26.200
 and facial interactions.

00:13:26.900 --> 00:13:27.440
 And then,

00:13:27.600 --> 00:13:28.380
 what I've seen

00:13:28.380 --> 00:13:29.260
 some glimpses

00:13:29.260 --> 00:13:30.360
 of avatars

00:13:30.360 --> 00:13:31.620
 that look like

00:13:31.620 --> 00:13:33.180
 photorealistic,

00:13:33.180 --> 00:13:34.540
 like skin tones,

00:13:36.020 --> 00:13:36.420
 you know,

00:13:36.460 --> 00:13:37.080
 just elements

00:13:37.080 --> 00:13:38.020
 that are just

00:13:38.020 --> 00:13:38.580
 mind-blowing.

00:13:38.700 --> 00:13:39.180
 And that's where

00:13:39.180 --> 00:13:39.680
 we're going.

00:13:40.100 --> 00:13:40.580
 So sure,

00:13:40.640 --> 00:13:41.420
 in the early years

00:13:41.420 --> 00:13:42.220
 of VR,

00:13:42.680 --> 00:13:43.200
 the avatars

00:13:43.200 --> 00:13:43.680
 don't seem

00:13:43.680 --> 00:13:44.520
 that interesting,

00:13:44.760 --> 00:13:45.600
 but the evolution

00:13:45.600 --> 00:13:46.640
 and the glimpses

00:13:46.640 --> 00:13:47.220
 that we've seen,

00:13:47.300 --> 00:13:47.780
 you're going to have

00:13:47.780 --> 00:13:49.280
 a photorealistic

00:13:49.280 --> 00:13:50.020
 image of yourself.

00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:51.240
 Like this past Sunday,

00:13:51.340 --> 00:13:51.880
 and this has actually

00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:52.920
 happened this past Sunday,

00:13:53.380 --> 00:13:54.940
 President Barack Obama

00:13:54.940 --> 00:13:55.560
 was at church,

00:13:55.640 --> 00:13:56.600
 not him himself,

00:13:56.980 --> 00:13:57.980
 but an avatar

00:13:57.980 --> 00:13:59.240
 photorealistic

00:13:59.240 --> 00:14:00.500
 just looked like him

00:14:00.500 --> 00:14:01.200
 in real person.

00:14:01.460 --> 00:14:01.700
 I mean,

00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:02.480
 as close as you can get

00:14:02.480 --> 00:14:03.400
 at this point in the tech

00:14:03.400 --> 00:14:04.640
 was at church.

00:14:04.760 --> 00:14:05.820
 And so it's just

00:14:05.820 --> 00:14:06.580
 those elements

00:14:06.580 --> 00:14:07.460
 that make it

00:14:07.460 --> 00:14:08.420
 all that more immersive.

00:14:09.120 --> 00:14:10.220
 And then another level

00:14:10.220 --> 00:14:10.880
 to talk about

00:14:10.880 --> 00:14:12.820
 is people will say,

00:14:12.920 --> 00:14:12.980
 well,

00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:13.940
 what about the tactile

00:14:13.940 --> 00:14:15.000
 experience?

00:14:15.200 --> 00:14:15.260
 Like,

00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:15.560
 you know,

00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:16.600
 you can't hug people,

00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:17.440
 you can't,

00:14:17.440 --> 00:14:17.680
 you know,

00:14:17.700 --> 00:14:18.440
 shake hands.

00:14:18.840 --> 00:14:19.840
 But I just ordered

00:14:19.840 --> 00:14:20.740
 a haptic vest

00:14:20.740 --> 00:14:21.500
 and that's coming in,

00:14:21.520 --> 00:14:21.680
 you know,

00:14:21.720 --> 00:14:22.640
 hopefully before Christmas.

00:14:22.840 --> 00:14:24.080
 And so that haptic vest

00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:24.820
 I'm going to put on

00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:25.760
 is going to create,

00:14:26.200 --> 00:14:27.300
 like if somebody taps me

00:14:27.300 --> 00:14:27.760
 on the back,

00:14:27.820 --> 00:14:27.980
 you know,

00:14:27.980 --> 00:14:28.460
 I'll be able to,

00:14:28.800 --> 00:14:28.920
 oh,

00:14:28.960 --> 00:14:29.320
 someone's,

00:14:29.420 --> 00:14:29.560
 you know,

00:14:29.560 --> 00:14:30.300
 right next to me.

00:14:30.360 --> 00:14:32.280
 And so the technology

00:14:32.280 --> 00:14:33.680
 is evolving

00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:35.180
 quickly

00:14:35.180 --> 00:14:36.140
 and in a way

00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:37.220
 that's just something

00:14:37.220 --> 00:14:37.980
 that we can't even,

00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:38.900
 you know,

00:14:38.980 --> 00:14:39.500
 kind of,

00:14:39.840 --> 00:14:40.140
 you know,

00:14:40.200 --> 00:14:40.520
 measure.

00:14:40.780 --> 00:14:41.640
 And in the future,

00:14:41.740 --> 00:14:42.160
 2030,

00:14:42.300 --> 00:14:42.840
 can you imagine,

00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:43.100
 you know,

00:14:43.160 --> 00:14:44.380
 VR is going to be

00:14:44.380 --> 00:14:45.680
 a little pair of glasses.

00:14:45.800 --> 00:14:46.300
 You'll have a light

00:14:46.300 --> 00:14:47.200
 haptic suit on.

00:14:47.460 --> 00:14:48.460
 You'll shake people's hands

00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:48.880
 in VR

00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:49.980
 and you'll feel the feedback

00:14:49.980 --> 00:14:51.000
 in the haptic environment.

00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.280
 So,

00:14:52.640 --> 00:14:52.760
 yeah,

00:14:52.860 --> 00:14:53.740
 it's pretty wild.

00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:54.180
 Yeah,

00:14:54.180 --> 00:14:54.760
 there's a lot to say

00:14:54.760 --> 00:14:55.360
 about avatars.

00:14:55.900 --> 00:14:57.120
 You're just taking me

00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:57.500
 all the way

00:14:57.500 --> 00:14:58.340
 to Ready Player One

00:14:58.340 --> 00:14:58.760
 right there.

00:14:59.080 --> 00:15:00.060
 I remember a couple

00:15:00.060 --> 00:15:00.500
 of those scenes.

00:15:00.640 --> 00:15:00.940
 That's like,

00:15:01.060 --> 00:15:02.180
 that's one of my daughter's

00:15:02.180 --> 00:15:03.060
 favorite movies right there.

00:15:03.260 --> 00:15:03.420
 Okay.

00:15:03.760 --> 00:15:03.980
 Hey,

00:15:04.820 --> 00:15:05.120
 yeah,

00:15:05.200 --> 00:15:06.460
 I love this idea

00:15:06.460 --> 00:15:07.360
 of the,

00:15:07.420 --> 00:15:07.580
 you know,

00:15:07.600 --> 00:15:08.360
 the virtual reality.

00:15:08.420 --> 00:15:08.720
 As you said,

00:15:08.780 --> 00:15:10.180
 it's gotten much easier.

00:15:11.500 --> 00:15:12.780
 It comes down to the place.

00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:14.200
 I think the Oculus

00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:15.560
 instead of,

00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:16.940
 I think it's the Quest 2

00:15:16.940 --> 00:15:17.800
 is now the model

00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:18.640
 that's kind of out

00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:19.980
 this Christmas

00:15:19.980 --> 00:15:20.880
 that seems to be like

00:15:20.880 --> 00:15:21.520
 that was it like

00:15:21.520 --> 00:15:22.500
 the $199

00:15:22.500 --> 00:15:24.600
 the hot Christmas gift

00:15:24.600 --> 00:15:25.600
 to really get into

00:15:25.600 --> 00:15:26.280
 the entry-level

00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:26.980
 virtual reality?

00:15:27.380 --> 00:15:27.720
 Yes,

00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:28.080
 yes.

00:15:28.160 --> 00:15:29.020
 I think it's $299

00:15:29.020 --> 00:15:30.640
 and if people ask

00:15:30.640 --> 00:15:31.000
 what,

00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:33.500
 there's many different

00:15:33.500 --> 00:15:34.460
 headsets being developed.

00:15:34.620 --> 00:15:34.740
 I mean,

00:15:34.780 --> 00:15:36.460
 some like these 8K resolution,

00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:36.960
 you know,

00:15:37.020 --> 00:15:37.360
 wide,

00:15:37.860 --> 00:15:38.900
 you know,

00:15:38.940 --> 00:15:40.300
 field of view.

00:15:40.800 --> 00:15:42.560
 But fundamentally,

00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:44.240
 I think there's two leaders

00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:45.380
 and that's Oculus

00:15:45.380 --> 00:15:46.400
 and Valve.

00:15:47.380 --> 00:15:48.000
 And so,

00:15:48.260 --> 00:15:49.560
 generally speaking

00:15:49.560 --> 00:15:50.180
 for most people,

00:15:50.180 --> 00:15:50.800
 I would say,

00:15:51.160 --> 00:15:52.420
 Oculus Quest 2

00:15:52.420 --> 00:15:53.700
 that just came out

00:15:53.700 --> 00:15:54.600
 is the one to get.

00:15:54.660 --> 00:15:55.440
 It is fantastic.

00:15:56.140 --> 00:15:57.560
 It is untethered,

00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.300
 which means you don't need

00:15:58.300 --> 00:15:59.300
 a phone or a computer

00:15:59.300 --> 00:16:00.280
 to connect to.

00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:01.140
 You can just use it

00:16:01.140 --> 00:16:01.640
 wirelessly.

00:16:01.980 --> 00:16:03.220
 Or you can connect

00:16:03.220 --> 00:16:03.740
 it to your PC

00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:04.360
 if you wanted to

00:16:04.360 --> 00:16:05.300
 for more higher-end

00:16:05.300 --> 00:16:06.020
 VR experiences.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:06.340
 So,

00:16:06.700 --> 00:16:07.840
 it's a multi-purpose unit.

00:16:07.920 --> 00:16:08.680
 It is fantastic.

00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:09.540
 Rave reviews.

00:16:09.700 --> 00:16:10.640
 People that were,

00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:11.740
 like one of my elders

00:16:11.740 --> 00:16:13.260
 was real reluctant

00:16:13.260 --> 00:16:13.760
 about it

00:16:13.760 --> 00:16:14.320
 and then he got it

00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:14.600
 and he was like,

00:16:14.600 --> 00:16:15.380
 I was totally wrong.

00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:16.160
 This thing is amazing.

00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:16.520
 So,

00:16:16.840 --> 00:16:17.580
 Oculus Quest 2

00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:19.200
 for hardcore users,

00:16:19.300 --> 00:16:19.480
 man,

00:16:19.620 --> 00:16:20.140
 because there's people

00:16:20.140 --> 00:16:20.480
 out there

00:16:20.480 --> 00:16:20.760
 that are like,

00:16:20.820 --> 00:16:20.920
 man,

00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:22.460
 I'm a technologist.

00:16:22.580 --> 00:16:23.200
 I want the best.

00:16:23.260 --> 00:16:24.040
 I want the most powerful.

00:16:24.500 --> 00:16:25.440
 And that would be

00:16:25.440 --> 00:16:26.980
 the Valve Index.

00:16:27.580 --> 00:16:28.080
 And so,

00:16:28.120 --> 00:16:29.040
 that was a little more pricier,

00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:29.880
 I think at $1,000

00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:31.360
 for the Valve Index.

00:16:31.500 --> 00:16:31.900
 And you need

00:16:31.900 --> 00:16:32.680
 a really good computer

00:16:32.680 --> 00:16:33.240
 to run it.

00:16:33.520 --> 00:16:33.720
 So,

00:16:33.800 --> 00:16:34.080
 you have to do

00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.460
 a little system check

00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:35.760
 on that

00:16:35.760 --> 00:16:36.180
 to make sure

00:16:36.180 --> 00:16:36.980
 you can handle VR.

00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:38.820
 But yeah,

00:16:38.900 --> 00:16:39.660
 for the Valve Index,

00:16:39.880 --> 00:16:41.360
 that's another level.

00:16:41.460 --> 00:16:42.040
 And that's like

00:16:42.040 --> 00:16:42.740
 full control

00:16:42.740 --> 00:16:43.320
 of your fingers.

00:16:43.520 --> 00:16:43.580
 Like,

00:16:43.780 --> 00:16:44.380
 I'll see people

00:16:44.380 --> 00:16:46.220
 moving their fingers

00:16:46.220 --> 00:16:47.200
 in virtual reality.

00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:47.820
 I was like,

00:16:47.840 --> 00:16:47.940
 oh,

00:16:47.960 --> 00:16:48.780
 they have a Valve Index.

00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:49.340
 And so,

00:16:49.720 --> 00:16:50.680
 full body motion

00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:51.400
 as well

00:16:51.400 --> 00:16:52.580
 is compatible

00:16:52.580 --> 00:16:53.540
 with the Valve Index.

00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:53.840
 So,

00:16:54.180 --> 00:16:54.840
 for me,

00:16:54.880 --> 00:16:55.560
 I use the Oculus.

00:16:55.780 --> 00:16:55.900
 So,

00:16:55.980 --> 00:16:56.700
 generally speaking,

00:16:56.840 --> 00:16:57.540
 my avatar,

00:16:57.800 --> 00:16:59.120
 I have head rotation

00:16:59.120 --> 00:16:59.700
 up and down,

00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:00.900
 six degrees of freedom.

00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:01.720
 My hands have

00:17:01.720 --> 00:17:02.560
 six degrees of freedom.

00:17:02.720 --> 00:17:02.820
 So,

00:17:03.140 --> 00:17:03.560
 there is like

00:17:03.560 --> 00:17:04.100
 a torso,

00:17:04.520 --> 00:17:04.920
 head,

00:17:05.500 --> 00:17:07.380
 arm interactions.

00:17:07.380 --> 00:17:08.200
 But the Valve,

00:17:08.600 --> 00:17:09.480
 and if you get the,

00:17:09.540 --> 00:17:10.560
 I forget what they're called,

00:17:10.820 --> 00:17:13.940
 some like motion points

00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:14.740
 or something like that.

00:17:14.780 --> 00:17:15.440
 But you connect them

00:17:15.440 --> 00:17:15.920
 to different parts

00:17:15.920 --> 00:17:16.420
 of your body.

00:17:16.780 --> 00:17:17.680
 And when you see

00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:18.100
 those people,

00:17:18.260 --> 00:17:19.160
 you know immediately

00:17:19.160 --> 00:17:20.140
 their full body

00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:21.280
 because they're just

00:17:21.280 --> 00:17:21.940
 so fluid.

00:17:22.080 --> 00:17:22.220
 Like,

00:17:22.260 --> 00:17:23.260
 every part of their

00:17:23.260 --> 00:17:23.780
 leg moves,

00:17:23.840 --> 00:17:24.440
 their knee bends,

00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:25.680
 that's what their avatar

00:17:25.680 --> 00:17:26.420
 does as well.

00:17:26.620 --> 00:17:26.740
 So,

00:17:27.240 --> 00:17:27.460
 yeah,

00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:27.640
 I mean,

00:17:27.660 --> 00:17:28.940
 we're talking about

00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:29.540
 like some

00:17:29.540 --> 00:17:30.880
 groundbreaking technology

00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:31.580
 that's pretty wild.

00:17:32.280 --> 00:17:32.760
 And so,

00:17:32.880 --> 00:17:33.080
 like,

00:17:33.080 --> 00:17:35.120
 through VR Church,

00:17:35.180 --> 00:17:35.680
 you're planting

00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:36.520
 five

00:17:36.520 --> 00:17:37.440
 churches

00:17:37.440 --> 00:17:37.920
 essentially

00:17:37.920 --> 00:17:38.680
 at this point,

00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:39.860
 it's,

00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:40.540
 it's,

00:17:40.740 --> 00:17:41.480
 you know,

00:17:41.500 --> 00:17:42.320
 I know through

00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:44.040
 all VR,

00:17:44.580 --> 00:17:45.340
 you've got one

00:17:45.340 --> 00:17:46.140
 like in the Americas,

00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:47.420
 I believe Europe,

00:17:47.540 --> 00:17:48.660
 I think Asia Pacific,

00:17:48.860 --> 00:17:49.340
 just like

00:17:49.340 --> 00:17:50.620
 time slipping,

00:17:50.820 --> 00:17:51.320
 time zones

00:17:51.320 --> 00:17:51.820
 to make it

00:17:51.820 --> 00:17:52.380
 more appropriate

00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:53.260
 for those areas.

00:17:53.260 --> 00:17:53.880
 And you're in

00:17:53.880 --> 00:17:55.160
 Rec Room,

00:17:55.260 --> 00:17:55.800
 which I think

00:17:55.800 --> 00:17:56.300
 gets you into

00:17:56.300 --> 00:17:57.540
 PlayStation VR,

00:17:57.780 --> 00:17:58.820
 if I'm familiar right.

00:17:58.900 --> 00:17:59.080
 Like,

00:17:59.080 --> 00:17:59.980
 what are the different

00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:01.180
 platforms that you're on?

00:18:01.480 --> 00:18:01.700
 Yeah,

00:18:01.800 --> 00:18:02.020
 so,

00:18:02.120 --> 00:18:03.200
 AltSpace VR

00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:03.800
 that's owned by

00:18:03.800 --> 00:18:04.260
 Microsoft,

00:18:04.620 --> 00:18:05.860
 and they're accessed

00:18:05.860 --> 00:18:07.700
 by most headsets.

00:18:08.280 --> 00:18:09.160
 There's VR Chat,

00:18:09.580 --> 00:18:10.080
 which is,

00:18:10.260 --> 00:18:10.900
 which is like

00:18:10.900 --> 00:18:11.480
 Ready Player One.

00:18:11.600 --> 00:18:11.780
 I mean,

00:18:11.880 --> 00:18:12.480
 Ready Player One

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:13.240
 is here in VR Chat,

00:18:13.400 --> 00:18:14.000
 but it's still

00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:14.980
 like the Wild West.

00:18:15.460 --> 00:18:16.500
 I usually don't,

00:18:16.580 --> 00:18:16.780
 I usually,

00:18:16.860 --> 00:18:17.580
 when people want to come

00:18:17.580 --> 00:18:18.340
 for the first time,

00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:18.920
 I tell them to go to

00:18:18.920 --> 00:18:19.360
 AltSpace,

00:18:19.460 --> 00:18:19.960
 because VR Chat

00:18:19.960 --> 00:18:20.340
 is definitely

00:18:20.340 --> 00:18:21.340
 the Wild West of VR.

00:18:21.460 --> 00:18:22.380
 It's an amazing place,

00:18:22.420 --> 00:18:23.080
 but just wild.

00:18:23.880 --> 00:18:25.060
 And then there's Rec Room,

00:18:25.500 --> 00:18:26.140
 and Rec Room

00:18:26.140 --> 00:18:26.640
 is interesting.

00:18:26.860 --> 00:18:28.040
 I think that's the dark horse

00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:29.440
 of this internet

00:18:29.440 --> 00:18:30.820
 or this metaverse race.

00:18:30.960 --> 00:18:31.080
 So,

00:18:31.460 --> 00:18:32.180
 you think of like,

00:18:32.340 --> 00:18:32.660
 you know,

00:18:32.920 --> 00:18:33.780
 the browser wars,

00:18:33.940 --> 00:18:34.120
 you know,

00:18:34.180 --> 00:18:34.680
 back in the day,

00:18:34.780 --> 00:18:35.580
 and was it Netscape

00:18:35.580 --> 00:18:36.140
 and Google

00:18:36.140 --> 00:18:36.940
 or Chrome

00:18:36.940 --> 00:18:37.100
 and,

00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:37.280
 you know,

00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:37.660
 all these,

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.480
 Netscape,

00:18:38.600 --> 00:18:39.460
 you know,

00:18:39.500 --> 00:18:40.120
 back in the day.

00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:40.800
 Yeah,

00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:41.880
 and then social media,

00:18:42.060 --> 00:18:42.200
 like,

00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:42.920
 you know,

00:18:42.980 --> 00:18:43.300
 Facebook,

00:18:43.480 --> 00:18:43.760
 Snapchat,

00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:44.560
 and so there is

00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:45.680
 this metaverse race.

00:18:45.980 --> 00:18:46.260
 I don't know

00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:46.580
 if it's,

00:18:46.900 --> 00:18:47.520
 anyone's coined

00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:48.040
 that phrase,

00:18:48.100 --> 00:18:48.640
 but it's just

00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:49.300
 my observation

00:18:49.300 --> 00:18:50.060
 where you have

00:18:50.060 --> 00:18:50.680
 AltSpace

00:18:50.680 --> 00:18:51.320
 by Microsoft,

00:18:51.580 --> 00:18:53.360
 you have VR Chat,

00:18:53.760 --> 00:18:54.780
 you have Rec Room,

00:18:54.880 --> 00:18:55.440
 and then Facebook

00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:56.020
 has their own

00:18:56.020 --> 00:18:56.720
 called Horizons,

00:18:56.780 --> 00:18:57.320
 so people might not

00:18:57.320 --> 00:18:57.820
 even know about

00:18:57.820 --> 00:18:58.660
 Facebook Horizons,

00:18:58.680 --> 00:18:59.320
 that's in beta,

00:18:59.840 --> 00:19:00.460
 that hasn't been

00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:00.960
 released yet.

00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:01.160
 So,

00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:01.660
 you have these

00:19:01.660 --> 00:19:03.780
 different social media,

00:19:04.180 --> 00:19:04.960
 for lack of a better word,

00:19:05.060 --> 00:19:05.880
 social media,

00:19:06.080 --> 00:19:07.380
 virtual reality platforms,

00:19:07.760 --> 00:19:09.100
 and so those are the ones

00:19:09.100 --> 00:19:10.000
 that we are across.

00:19:10.360 --> 00:19:10.780
 Rec Room

00:19:10.780 --> 00:19:11.960
 is very interesting

00:19:11.960 --> 00:19:12.860
 because it's the most

00:19:12.860 --> 00:19:13.460
 accessible,

00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:14.080
 like,

00:19:14.140 --> 00:19:14.740
 it's on the Xbox,

00:19:15.020 --> 00:19:15.480
 PlayStation,

00:19:16.080 --> 00:19:16.620
 the Quest,

00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:17.320
 the VR,

00:19:17.780 --> 00:19:18.580
 and you can do,

00:19:18.700 --> 00:19:19.520
 it really is an

00:19:19.520 --> 00:19:20.240
 incredible platform.

00:19:20.380 --> 00:19:20.820
 We've been keeping

00:19:20.820 --> 00:19:21.360
 an eye on that

00:19:21.360 --> 00:19:21.780
 for sure.

00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:22.840
 So,

00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:25.160
 these are the terms

00:19:25.160 --> 00:19:26.360
 that sound

00:19:26.360 --> 00:19:27.780
 a little bit

00:19:27.780 --> 00:19:29.820
 enigma at first,

00:19:29.900 --> 00:19:30.760
 but in the future,

00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:31.660
 it's going to be

00:19:31.660 --> 00:19:32.220
 like Google

00:19:32.220 --> 00:19:32.800
 or Facebook.

00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:33.540
 It's just going to be

00:19:33.540 --> 00:19:34.600
 terms you know,

00:19:35.180 --> 00:19:36.160
 even though right now

00:19:36.160 --> 00:19:36.380
 you're like,

00:19:36.420 --> 00:19:37.040
 AltSpace what?

00:19:37.440 --> 00:19:38.620
 But later on in the future,

00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:39.200
 you know,

00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.120
 we'll be using those words

00:19:40.120 --> 00:19:40.640
 quite a bit.

00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:41.700
 That's exciting.

00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:42.000
 And so,

00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:43.520
 you're planting a church,

00:19:43.620 --> 00:19:43.780
 I mean,

00:19:43.800 --> 00:19:44.380
 just like you would,

00:19:44.460 --> 00:19:45.620
 like a church

00:19:45.620 --> 00:19:46.380
 in New York City,

00:19:46.580 --> 00:19:47.860
 you're planting a church

00:19:47.860 --> 00:19:48.860
 in Rec Room,

00:19:48.860 --> 00:19:49.500
 and there's

00:19:49.500 --> 00:19:51.220
 independent teaching,

00:19:51.540 --> 00:19:52.580
 video teaching,

00:19:52.760 --> 00:19:53.100
 like what,

00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:54.360
 and you mentioned earlier

00:19:54.360 --> 00:19:55.520
 like the world buildings

00:19:55.520 --> 00:19:56.560
 and stuff like that.

00:19:56.640 --> 00:19:56.760
 So,

00:19:56.900 --> 00:19:58.080
 like tell me a little bit

00:19:58.080 --> 00:19:59.420
 about what an experience

00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:00.160
 would look like

00:20:00.160 --> 00:20:00.780
 in virtual reality.

00:20:01.240 --> 00:20:01.420
 Yeah,

00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:03.360
 so we started out

00:20:03.360 --> 00:20:04.940
 like the very early on,

00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:05.700
 like 2016,

00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:07.000
 trying video teaching out

00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:07.340
 just because,

00:20:07.760 --> 00:20:07.980
 you know,

00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:08.940
 I was just transitioning

00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:09.520
 and didn't necessarily

00:20:09.520 --> 00:20:10.700
 have time to prepare sermons

00:20:10.700 --> 00:20:11.460
 and so we tried

00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:12.060
 video teaching.

00:20:12.580 --> 00:20:13.260
 But it really,

00:20:13.380 --> 00:20:13.500
 I mean,

00:20:13.540 --> 00:20:14.280
 you don't go into

00:20:14.280 --> 00:20:14.900
 the metaverse,

00:20:14.980 --> 00:20:15.400
 you don't go into

00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:15.940
 virtual reality

00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:16.700
 to watch a video.

00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.520
 You go in there

00:20:17.520 --> 00:20:18.360
 to experience things.

00:20:18.440 --> 00:20:19.020
 So we quickly

00:20:19.020 --> 00:20:20.760
 transition into live teaching

00:20:20.760 --> 00:20:21.820
 and then eventually

00:20:21.820 --> 00:20:22.480
 world building

00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:23.580
 where we're creating

00:20:23.580 --> 00:20:25.060
 these elements of scripture

00:20:25.060 --> 00:20:26.180
 for people to experience.

00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:27.260
 Like imagine walking

00:20:27.260 --> 00:20:28.040
 through the Red Sea

00:20:28.040 --> 00:20:29.820
 and then we'll recreate that

00:20:29.820 --> 00:20:30.520
 and walk through it

00:20:30.520 --> 00:20:31.060
 as a church.

00:20:31.540 --> 00:20:32.360
 In one sense,

00:20:32.380 --> 00:20:33.340
 it's almost like a tour

00:20:33.340 --> 00:20:34.480
 or a ride,

00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:35.720
 amusement park ride

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:36.540
 in one sense

00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:37.920
 where we don't just sit

00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.400
 in the building,

00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:39.300
 we're actually out there

00:20:39.300 --> 00:20:39.960
 moving about

00:20:39.960 --> 00:20:41.260
 and experiencing things.

00:20:41.380 --> 00:20:41.640
 And so,

00:20:42.080 --> 00:20:42.880
 there's elements

00:20:42.880 --> 00:20:43.560
 that are familiar.

00:20:43.900 --> 00:20:44.440
 Like if you come

00:20:44.440 --> 00:20:45.460
 to VR Church this Sunday,

00:20:45.860 --> 00:20:46.700
 you'll spawn in,

00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:47.060
 you'll see,

00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:48.540
 on the front door,

00:20:48.620 --> 00:20:49.520
 you'll see the building there,

00:20:49.620 --> 00:20:50.640
 you'll hear music,

00:20:51.060 --> 00:20:51.720
 you'll see people

00:20:51.720 --> 00:20:52.380
 milling about.

00:20:52.820 --> 00:20:53.620
 If you come in,

00:20:53.720 --> 00:20:53.880
 you know,

00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:54.860
 there's a countdown going

00:20:54.860 --> 00:20:55.800
 and then after that,

00:20:55.880 --> 00:20:56.440
 there's, you know,

00:20:56.500 --> 00:20:56.940
 announcements,

00:20:57.240 --> 00:20:57.840
 vision casting,

00:20:57.980 --> 00:20:58.520
 worship music,

00:20:58.520 --> 00:20:59.280
 and then we do a sermon.

00:20:59.400 --> 00:21:00.120
 So, there's definitely

00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:01.360
 familiar elements.

00:21:01.980 --> 00:21:02.880
 But where it becomes

00:21:02.880 --> 00:21:04.740
 unique is when that sermon

00:21:04.740 --> 00:21:05.580
 starts to kick in

00:21:05.580 --> 00:21:06.680
 and we leave the building

00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:07.940
 and we start to go

00:21:07.940 --> 00:21:09.240
 to these movie sets,

00:21:09.320 --> 00:21:09.880
 if you will,

00:21:10.300 --> 00:21:11.700
 to experience VR Church.

00:21:11.820 --> 00:21:12.120
 And so,

00:21:12.180 --> 00:21:14.940
 that's where VR shines

00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:16.100
 because VR represents

00:21:16.100 --> 00:21:16.840
 the new era

00:21:16.840 --> 00:21:18.060
 that we're coming into,

00:21:18.440 --> 00:21:19.100
 which means

00:21:19.100 --> 00:21:20.580
 the information age

00:21:20.580 --> 00:21:21.600
 is coming to a close,

00:21:21.720 --> 00:21:22.880
 but the experience age

00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:23.880
 is about to begin

00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:25.060
 and the experience age

00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:26.420
 is that of VR,

00:21:26.560 --> 00:21:26.860
 AR,

00:21:27.020 --> 00:21:27.640
 mixed reality,

00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:28.340
 and all those things.

00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:29.020
 And so,

00:21:29.100 --> 00:21:29.680
 VR Church

00:21:29.680 --> 00:21:32.060
 reflects

00:21:32.060 --> 00:21:34.320
 the experience age

00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:34.920
 where church

00:21:34.920 --> 00:21:35.780
 is experiential

00:21:35.780 --> 00:21:36.260
 and tactile.

00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:37.060
 That's what churches

00:21:37.060 --> 00:21:37.880
 are going to move into.

00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:39.220
 And so,

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:42.580
 maybe your stage design team

00:21:42.580 --> 00:21:44.440
 is going to evolve into

00:21:44.440 --> 00:21:45.100
 by 2030,

00:21:45.240 --> 00:21:45.600
 let's say,

00:21:45.900 --> 00:21:46.040
 you know,

00:21:46.060 --> 00:21:46.620
 who knows what year,

00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:48.240
 but just for sake of argument,

00:21:48.320 --> 00:21:49.860
 2030 into a world building team.

00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:50.720
 They're going to be designing

00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:52.700
 not just props on stage,

00:21:52.780 --> 00:21:53.320
 like worlds.

00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:54.320
 You're going to be building worlds

00:21:54.320 --> 00:21:54.980
 with your mind,

00:21:55.420 --> 00:21:57.220
 kind of like in inception

00:21:57.220 --> 00:21:58.420
 with Leonardo DiCaprio

00:21:58.420 --> 00:21:59.000
 and Ellen Page

00:21:59.000 --> 00:21:59.720
 where they're just building.

00:22:00.240 --> 00:22:00.500
 And so,

00:22:00.600 --> 00:22:01.400
 in the same way,

00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:02.580
 church is going to evolve

00:22:02.580 --> 00:22:03.100
 into that

00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:04.380
 and church is going to shift,

00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.740
 hopefully,

00:22:05.240 --> 00:22:05.500
 you know,

00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:06.140
 I know churches,

00:22:06.300 --> 00:22:07.060
 we struggle,

00:22:07.260 --> 00:22:07.460
 you know,

00:22:07.460 --> 00:22:08.580
 getting into new technologies,

00:22:08.580 --> 00:22:09.760
 but they're going to shift

00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:12.240
 into that experience age

00:22:12.240 --> 00:22:13.260
 and the services

00:22:13.260 --> 00:22:14.220
 are going to reflect that.

00:22:14.860 --> 00:22:14.940
 So,

00:22:15.040 --> 00:22:15.220
 like,

00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:16.060
 so for you,

00:22:16.260 --> 00:22:16.680
 is your,

00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:17.820
 the experience,

00:22:17.940 --> 00:22:18.760
 maybe even what you're doing

00:22:18.760 --> 00:22:20.640
 for like Christmas 2020 here,

00:22:21.020 --> 00:22:21.300
 like,

00:22:21.360 --> 00:22:22.220
 are you going

00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:23.600
 overkill

00:22:23.600 --> 00:22:25.440
 on like red balls

00:22:25.440 --> 00:22:26.440
 and green balls

00:22:26.440 --> 00:22:27.420
 and Christmas trees

00:22:27.420 --> 00:22:28.520
 and ornaments

00:22:28.520 --> 00:22:29.940
 or are you like

00:22:29.940 --> 00:22:30.780
 recreating

00:22:30.780 --> 00:22:32.160
 the Bethlehem

00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:33.080
 with the star?

00:22:33.260 --> 00:22:33.380
 Like,

00:22:33.740 --> 00:22:33.900
 what,

00:22:34.100 --> 00:22:35.220
 what's the level

00:22:35.220 --> 00:22:36.100
 of imagination

00:22:36.100 --> 00:22:37.080
 are you guys bringing

00:22:37.080 --> 00:22:37.880
 at least today

00:22:37.880 --> 00:22:38.460
 in 2020

00:22:38.460 --> 00:22:38.980
 when it comes

00:22:38.980 --> 00:22:39.780
 to these world buildings?

00:22:40.260 --> 00:22:40.400
 Yeah,

00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:40.620
 I mean,

00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:41.520
 certainly decorations,

00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:42.080
 but yeah,

00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:42.920
 fundamentally,

00:22:42.920 --> 00:22:43.680
 that's where we're going

00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:45.080
 is recreating Bethlehem.

00:22:45.260 --> 00:22:45.460
 So,

00:22:45.840 --> 00:22:46.540
 you know,

00:22:46.800 --> 00:22:47.580
 I was just working

00:22:47.580 --> 00:22:48.280
 on the design

00:22:48.280 --> 00:22:49.140
 a couple weeks ago.

00:22:49.300 --> 00:22:49.420
 So,

00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:50.460
 I just write down some notes.

00:22:50.520 --> 00:22:51.080
 I read the scripture.

00:22:51.580 --> 00:22:52.420
 I write down some notes.

00:22:52.500 --> 00:22:52.720
 Usually,

00:22:52.840 --> 00:22:53.460
 we try to build out

00:22:53.460 --> 00:22:54.340
 a month ahead.

00:22:55.040 --> 00:22:55.600
 And so,

00:22:55.660 --> 00:22:56.260
 I think they're building

00:22:56.260 --> 00:22:56.800
 even tonight

00:22:56.800 --> 00:22:57.480
 for Christmas.

00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:59.040
 And it'll take anywhere

00:22:59.040 --> 00:22:59.360
 from,

00:22:59.480 --> 00:22:59.620
 I mean,

00:22:59.700 --> 00:23:01.160
 four to eight hours.

00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:02.040
 Just depends.

00:23:02.160 --> 00:23:02.940
 Our world building

00:23:02.940 --> 00:23:04.280
 works really quickly

00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:05.600
 and a lot of great tools

00:23:05.600 --> 00:23:06.420
 in these metaverses.

00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.000
 So,

00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.860
 I'll jot down some notes.

00:23:07.960 --> 00:23:08.000
 So,

00:23:08.060 --> 00:23:08.320
 I said,

00:23:08.380 --> 00:23:08.540
 all right,

00:23:08.560 --> 00:23:09.660
 Luke 2 looks like,

00:23:09.700 --> 00:23:09.980
 you know,

00:23:10.060 --> 00:23:11.140
 there's a decree.

00:23:11.500 --> 00:23:11.700
 So,

00:23:11.800 --> 00:23:12.520
 let's have a building,

00:23:12.680 --> 00:23:13.940
 like a sign

00:23:13.940 --> 00:23:14.440
 that says,

00:23:14.500 --> 00:23:14.680
 you know,

00:23:15.260 --> 00:23:16.500
 and then I said,

00:23:16.560 --> 00:23:16.740
 okay,

00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.700
 Mary and Joseph

00:23:17.700 --> 00:23:18.880
 are on a journey.

00:23:19.140 --> 00:23:20.100
 Let's create that road.

00:23:20.220 --> 00:23:21.100
 Let's get a cart,

00:23:21.160 --> 00:23:21.600
 a donkey,

00:23:22.060 --> 00:23:22.320
 you know,

00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:22.900
 all that stuff.

00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:23.340
 Let's go,

00:23:23.460 --> 00:23:24.100
 let's get the end.

00:23:24.180 --> 00:23:24.500
 Let's do,

00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:25.760
 it says no entry.

00:23:25.900 --> 00:23:26.240
 And so,

00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:28.180
 we're creating that tour,

00:23:28.320 --> 00:23:28.940
 that experience,

00:23:28.980 --> 00:23:29.580
 or that ride

00:23:29.580 --> 00:23:30.420
 all the way through

00:23:30.420 --> 00:23:31.740
 to these epic moments

00:23:31.740 --> 00:23:32.840
 where we have the angels

00:23:32.840 --> 00:23:33.860
 in the shepherd's field,

00:23:34.100 --> 00:23:34.420
 you know,

00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:35.020
 singing,

00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:35.740
 you know,

00:23:35.780 --> 00:23:36.260
 glory to God

00:23:36.260 --> 00:23:36.800
 in the highest.

00:23:36.920 --> 00:23:37.260
 And then we have,

00:23:37.480 --> 00:23:38.500
 certainly we have the manger.

00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:39.760
 We're going to be able

00:23:39.760 --> 00:23:40.620
 to walk in the manger

00:23:40.620 --> 00:23:42.800
 and hang out with,

00:23:42.860 --> 00:23:43.120
 you know,

00:23:43.220 --> 00:23:43.800
 the animals

00:23:43.800 --> 00:23:44.500
 and the

00:23:44.500 --> 00:23:45.720
 and the nativity scene.

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:46.820
 And so,

00:23:46.900 --> 00:23:48.420
 all that is experienced.

00:23:48.860 --> 00:23:49.860
 We'll read the scriptures,

00:23:50.020 --> 00:23:50.900
 we'll experience it.

00:23:51.120 --> 00:23:52.960
 A lot of what we do

00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.260
 is try to cast,

00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:55.720
 imagine you're there

00:23:55.720 --> 00:23:56.800
 because here you are.

00:23:56.940 --> 00:23:57.620
 We're walking

00:23:57.620 --> 00:23:58.720
 into Bethlehem right now.

00:23:59.380 --> 00:23:59.960
 And so,

00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:00.880
 that's like alt space

00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:02.040
 or the rec room build team

00:24:02.040 --> 00:24:02.720
 has their own,

00:24:02.900 --> 00:24:03.660
 they're going to do

00:24:03.660 --> 00:24:04.300
 their own thing

00:24:04.300 --> 00:24:04.820
 and it's going to be

00:24:04.820 --> 00:24:05.460
 very similar.

00:24:06.040 --> 00:24:07.220
 They have a lot of unique tools

00:24:07.220 --> 00:24:07.620
 where they can do

00:24:07.620 --> 00:24:08.760
 some really epic things.

00:24:09.260 --> 00:24:09.720
 VR chat,

00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:10.300
 the one that's like

00:24:10.300 --> 00:24:11.180
 ready player one,

00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:12.400
 we'll be doing

00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:13.900
 some more character oriented

00:24:13.900 --> 00:24:15.240
 because each of these churches

00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:15.880
 are very different.

00:24:15.980 --> 00:24:16.900
 And the VR chat one,

00:24:17.260 --> 00:24:19.140
 we are going to find characters

00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:20.740
 like the Mary and Joseph

00:24:20.740 --> 00:24:21.360
 and the angels

00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:22.120
 with like wings.

00:24:22.740 --> 00:24:23.060
 So,

00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:24.920
 this is more than just like,

00:24:25.020 --> 00:24:25.180
 you know,

00:24:25.220 --> 00:24:26.060
 maybe you've gone to

00:24:26.060 --> 00:24:27.460
 Christmas Cantata

00:24:27.460 --> 00:24:28.460
 or whatever they call it

00:24:28.460 --> 00:24:28.680
 where,

00:24:29.080 --> 00:24:29.220
 you know,

00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:30.360
 there's an angel costume.

00:24:30.520 --> 00:24:30.600
 I mean,

00:24:30.640 --> 00:24:31.180
 this is like,

00:24:31.420 --> 00:24:31.660
 you know,

00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:32.940
 like a 10 foot angel

00:24:32.940 --> 00:24:33.700
 in a VR

00:24:33.700 --> 00:24:35.060
 with animated wings

00:24:35.060 --> 00:24:36.120
 and lighting effects.

00:24:36.300 --> 00:24:36.540
 And so,

00:24:37.080 --> 00:24:37.980
 yeah,

00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:40.080
 there's so much

00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:41.040
 you can do in VR.

00:24:41.280 --> 00:24:41.460
 The,

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:42.700
 you know,

00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:44.380
 the sky is the limit.

00:24:44.500 --> 00:24:44.680
 I mean,

00:24:44.760 --> 00:24:45.500
 you can just,

00:24:45.720 --> 00:24:46.400
 there's just so much

00:24:46.400 --> 00:24:47.260
 to think and do

00:24:47.260 --> 00:24:48.160
 and we just have

00:24:48.160 --> 00:24:49.220
 a really creative team

00:24:49.220 --> 00:24:51.000
 and they do an amazing job.

00:24:51.080 --> 00:24:51.200
 So,

00:24:51.280 --> 00:24:51.380
 yeah,

00:24:51.380 --> 00:24:51.900
 we're looking forward

00:24:51.900 --> 00:24:52.360
 to Christmas.

00:24:52.360 --> 00:24:53.000
 I think it'll be

00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:54.000
 a big event.

00:24:54.380 --> 00:24:55.660
 I think for physical churches,

00:24:55.860 --> 00:24:57.120
 their biggest Sunday

00:24:57.120 --> 00:24:58.400
 is Christmas,

00:24:58.660 --> 00:24:59.800
 but ours tends to be,

00:25:00.440 --> 00:25:01.100
 even though we'll do

00:25:01.100 --> 00:25:02.180
 a big Christmas for sure,

00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:02.960
 ours tends to be

00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:03.600
 the week after

00:25:03.600 --> 00:25:04.480
 and,

00:25:04.620 --> 00:25:05.420
 or the couple weeks after

00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.920
 because everyone

00:25:05.920 --> 00:25:07.180
 unboxes their VR

00:25:07.180 --> 00:25:08.160
 and gets it charged up,

00:25:08.540 --> 00:25:09.740
 discovers VR church

00:25:09.740 --> 00:25:10.100
 and then,

00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:11.340
 so we've noticed

00:25:11.340 --> 00:25:12.100
 the past couple years

00:25:12.100 --> 00:25:12.460
 that,

00:25:12.540 --> 00:25:12.680
 you know,

00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:13.440
 Christmas is good

00:25:13.440 --> 00:25:14.520
 and good attendance

00:25:14.520 --> 00:25:16.700
 and then the next couple weeks

00:25:16.700 --> 00:25:17.080
 are just like,

00:25:17.160 --> 00:25:17.400
 boom,

00:25:17.480 --> 00:25:18.720
 there's like a ton of people there.

00:25:19.340 --> 00:25:19.700
 So,

00:25:19.780 --> 00:25:21.160
 that'll be fun again to see,

00:25:21.500 --> 00:25:21.980
 especially with the

00:25:21.980 --> 00:25:23.040
 Miraculous Quest 2 out.

00:25:23.620 --> 00:25:23.700
 Yeah,

00:25:23.780 --> 00:25:24.420
 everybody's,

00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:25.500
 everybody's breaking out

00:25:25.500 --> 00:25:26.140
 their new toys.

00:25:26.280 --> 00:25:26.680
 That's awesome.

00:25:26.840 --> 00:25:26.900
 Yeah.

00:25:27.040 --> 00:25:27.420
 How do they,

00:25:27.500 --> 00:25:28.240
 how do they find you?

00:25:28.380 --> 00:25:28.840
 They just like,

00:25:28.940 --> 00:25:29.320
 is like,

00:25:29.360 --> 00:25:29.900
 how do they,

00:25:30.860 --> 00:25:32.100
 VRChurch.org,

00:25:32.180 --> 00:25:33.120
 like how do these people

00:25:33.120 --> 00:25:34.160
 with these new headsets,

00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:34.520
 oh,

00:25:34.580 --> 00:25:34.760
 hey,

00:25:34.840 --> 00:25:35.000
 look,

00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:35.860
 here's VR Church.

00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:37.580
 A couple of different ways.

00:25:37.580 --> 00:25:37.860
 I mean,

00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:39.560
 we've had a unique story

00:25:39.560 --> 00:25:40.420
 that's unusual

00:25:40.420 --> 00:25:41.000
 just because we've

00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:41.920
 received a lot of press.

00:25:42.140 --> 00:25:42.180
 So,

00:25:42.280 --> 00:25:43.180
 a lot of people

00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:44.000
 have heard about us,

00:25:44.060 --> 00:25:44.200
 you know,

00:25:44.260 --> 00:25:45.420
 maybe through Wired Magazine

00:25:45.420 --> 00:25:46.800
 or through BBC

00:25:46.800 --> 00:25:48.280
 or the Today Show

00:25:48.280 --> 00:25:48.960
 and so,

00:25:49.160 --> 00:25:49.980
 it's in the back

00:25:49.980 --> 00:25:50.320
 of their mind

00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:51.240
 that there is a VR Church

00:25:51.240 --> 00:25:52.160
 and once they get VR,

00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:52.800
 they've come.

00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:52.980
 So,

00:25:53.020 --> 00:25:54.160
 that's definitely an avenue.

00:25:54.840 --> 00:25:55.440
 We've had a couple

00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:56.600
 of collaborations

00:25:56.600 --> 00:25:58.160
 with some YouTubers

00:25:58.160 --> 00:25:59.180
 about VR Church

00:25:59.180 --> 00:26:00.400
 that have reached

00:26:00.400 --> 00:26:00.940
 like a million

00:26:00.940 --> 00:26:01.560
 and a half views

00:26:01.560 --> 00:26:02.860
 or over a million views

00:26:02.860 --> 00:26:03.160
 and so,

00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:03.720
 a lot of people

00:26:03.720 --> 00:26:05.140
 discover us that way

00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:07.080
 and once they get VR

00:26:07.080 --> 00:26:08.200
 but,

00:26:08.480 --> 00:26:09.940
 and then real quick asterisk,

00:26:10.280 --> 00:26:11.120
 all these platforms

00:26:11.120 --> 00:26:11.960
 have a 2D mode.

00:26:12.200 --> 00:26:12.400
 So,

00:26:12.540 --> 00:26:13.740
 I think people think,

00:26:13.800 --> 00:26:13.920
 you know,

00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:14.980
 they can't come to VR Church

00:26:14.980 --> 00:26:15.800
 unless they get VR

00:26:15.800 --> 00:26:16.560
 but no,

00:26:16.600 --> 00:26:17.260
 you can come in

00:26:17.260 --> 00:26:19.020
 as a download client

00:26:19.020 --> 00:26:19.980
 on Steam.

00:26:20.080 --> 00:26:20.620
 If you have Steam,

00:26:20.680 --> 00:26:21.240
 you just download

00:26:21.240 --> 00:26:21.740
 Altspace,

00:26:21.820 --> 00:26:22.260
 VR Chat,

00:26:22.320 --> 00:26:22.660
 Rec Room

00:26:22.660 --> 00:26:23.940
 and you can come to VR Church.

00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.740
 You'll be in 2D mode.

00:26:24.820 --> 00:26:25.620
 It's a different experience

00:26:25.620 --> 00:26:26.880
 but still very interactive,

00:26:27.000 --> 00:26:27.660
 still very interesting

00:26:27.660 --> 00:26:29.300
 and so,

00:26:29.700 --> 00:26:29.880
 yeah,

00:26:29.940 --> 00:26:30.720
 they'll discover us,

00:26:30.800 --> 00:26:31.060
 you know,

00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:31.920
 through YouTube,

00:26:32.400 --> 00:26:32.640
 through,

00:26:32.860 --> 00:26:34.200
 some news articles.

00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:36.640
 If they discover Altspace,

00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:37.420
 we're on the calendar

00:26:37.420 --> 00:26:37.920
 of events

00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:39.300
 so they'll go

00:26:39.300 --> 00:26:39.640
 and they'll see,

00:26:39.720 --> 00:26:39.760
 oh,

00:26:39.800 --> 00:26:40.600
 there's a VR Church

00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:41.160
 here on Sunday

00:26:41.160 --> 00:26:42.520
 and so,

00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:42.900
 you know,

00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:43.760
 they'll discover us that way

00:26:43.760 --> 00:26:44.400
 so there's multiple

00:26:44.400 --> 00:26:45.520
 different avenues

00:26:45.520 --> 00:26:46.500
 where people discover us

00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:47.320
 and it's funny to see,

00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:47.440
 I mean,

00:26:47.460 --> 00:26:48.640
 we've been around

00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:50.040
 technically since 2016

00:26:50.040 --> 00:26:51.060
 here in 2020

00:26:51.060 --> 00:26:52.280
 when people discover

00:26:52.280 --> 00:26:53.160
 like there's a VR Church

00:26:53.160 --> 00:26:54.040
 that like blows their mind.

00:26:54.540 --> 00:26:54.800
 You know,

00:26:54.860 --> 00:26:55.100
 what?

00:26:55.200 --> 00:26:55.880
 There's a VR Church?

00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:56.200
 I was like,

00:26:56.240 --> 00:26:56.400
 yeah,

00:26:56.500 --> 00:26:56.640
 yeah,

00:26:56.640 --> 00:26:57.200
 come visit,

00:26:57.420 --> 00:26:57.540
 you know,

00:26:57.560 --> 00:26:58.220
 you'll have a good time.

00:26:58.620 --> 00:26:59.260
 That's crazy

00:26:59.260 --> 00:27:00.540
 and there's even,

00:27:00.680 --> 00:27:01.680
 I know personally,

00:27:01.680 --> 00:27:02.620
 I'm working with a couple

00:27:02.620 --> 00:27:03.540
 churches that are

00:27:03.540 --> 00:27:04.420
 wanting to start

00:27:04.420 --> 00:27:06.620
 a VR campus.

00:27:06.840 --> 00:27:06.980
 I mean,

00:27:07.020 --> 00:27:07.960
 they're really wanting

00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:08.520
 to create

00:27:08.520 --> 00:27:10.020
 another expression of that.

00:27:10.100 --> 00:27:11.460
 We recently did a podcast

00:27:11.460 --> 00:27:12.660
 with Jason Poling.

00:27:13.100 --> 00:27:14.600
 I know another mutual friend

00:27:14.600 --> 00:27:15.320
 who's with,

00:27:16.260 --> 00:27:17.420
 was it Cornerstone Church,

00:27:17.480 --> 00:27:17.720
 I think,

00:27:17.760 --> 00:27:18.940
 up in the Pacific Northwest?

00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:19.280
 I think.

00:27:19.620 --> 00:27:19.700
 Yeah,

00:27:19.860 --> 00:27:20.440
 Pastor JPO,

00:27:20.500 --> 00:27:20.620
 yeah.

00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:22.120
 and so he's doing,

00:27:22.280 --> 00:27:24.060
 I'm not in with him

00:27:24.060 --> 00:27:24.780
 like you evidently,

00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:25.080
 I don't know,

00:27:25.140 --> 00:27:25.860
 the JPO thing.

00:27:26.020 --> 00:27:27.980
 That's what I'm going to tell him.

00:27:28.580 --> 00:27:29.300
 But yeah,

00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.200
 and so like they're doing

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:32.800
 virtual reality,

00:27:33.240 --> 00:27:34.740
 live services

00:27:34.740 --> 00:27:35.520
 in physical buildings,

00:27:35.520 --> 00:27:36.640
 but then also creating

00:27:36.640 --> 00:27:38.000
 a completely separate

00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:39.920
 virtual reality experience.

00:27:40.260 --> 00:27:41.420
 And so like even JPO

00:27:41.420 --> 00:27:42.700
 evidently has been telling me,

00:27:43.020 --> 00:27:43.160
 hey,

00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:43.400
 he's like,

00:27:43.440 --> 00:27:43.560
 yeah,

00:27:43.560 --> 00:27:44.500
 I'll preach the service

00:27:44.500 --> 00:27:45.200
 live in the building

00:27:45.200 --> 00:27:45.720
 Sunday morning

00:27:45.720 --> 00:27:46.940
 and then he'll preach

00:27:46.940 --> 00:27:48.180
 live in virtual reality

00:27:48.180 --> 00:27:48.840
 Sunday night

00:27:48.840 --> 00:27:50.820
 and just creating

00:27:50.820 --> 00:27:52.400
 that completely separate

00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:54.020
 experience for that.

00:27:54.100 --> 00:27:55.440
 Let me throw a curveball at you.

00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.580
 I just want one to see.

00:27:57.180 --> 00:27:58.160
 What are the challenges?

00:27:58.280 --> 00:27:58.600
 Because I know

00:27:58.600 --> 00:27:59.540
 you've got a background

00:27:59.540 --> 00:28:00.080
 of physical.

00:28:00.880 --> 00:28:02.340
 You were a lead pastor

00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:03.040
 as I recall, right?

00:28:03.080 --> 00:28:03.620
 And I know you've done

00:28:03.620 --> 00:28:04.940
 a lot of video work.

00:28:05.420 --> 00:28:06.240
 You were a campus pastor,

00:28:06.280 --> 00:28:06.580
 that's right.

00:28:06.860 --> 00:28:07.980
 So you're a campus pastor.

00:28:07.980 --> 00:28:09.060
 Obviously you understand

00:28:09.060 --> 00:28:11.720
 the mega church,

00:28:11.820 --> 00:28:12.540
 multi-site model,

00:28:12.640 --> 00:28:14.140
 the physical church environment.

00:28:14.580 --> 00:28:15.300
 What challenges

00:28:15.300 --> 00:28:16.580
 is somebody going to have

00:28:16.580 --> 00:28:17.920
 that if they're going

00:28:17.920 --> 00:28:19.480
 from like a physical ministry

00:28:19.480 --> 00:28:20.960
 to wanting to create

00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:22.000
 like what JPO did,

00:28:22.380 --> 00:28:23.200
 creating a separate

00:28:23.200 --> 00:28:24.240
 virtual reality,

00:28:24.800 --> 00:28:25.520
 call it a campus.

00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:27.380
 What challenges

00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:28.500
 or issues are going to face?

00:28:28.600 --> 00:28:29.040
 What do they need

00:28:29.040 --> 00:28:29.680
 to think about

00:28:29.680 --> 00:28:30.580
 heading into that?

00:28:31.140 --> 00:28:31.900
 What do they need

00:28:31.900 --> 00:28:32.300
 to think about?

00:28:32.380 --> 00:28:33.700
 Yeah, that's a great question.

00:28:34.620 --> 00:28:35.940
 I think that

00:28:35.940 --> 00:28:36.840
 they're going to

00:28:36.840 --> 00:28:38.320
 maybe,

00:28:38.700 --> 00:28:39.460
 it depends how open

00:28:39.460 --> 00:28:40.060
 and closed they are.

00:28:40.180 --> 00:28:41.120
 Like if they make it

00:28:41.120 --> 00:28:41.600
 really limited,

00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:42.680
 like only our church members,

00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:43.740
 which might not be

00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:44.720
 a bad idea to start

00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:45.800
 because we're used

00:28:45.800 --> 00:28:46.400
 to and accustomed

00:28:46.400 --> 00:28:47.500
 to dealing with trolls,

00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:48.480
 disruptions.

00:28:48.580 --> 00:28:48.940
 It's actually,

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:50.020
 we don't even think about it.

00:28:50.560 --> 00:28:51.620
 So there is an element

00:28:51.620 --> 00:28:52.880
 if you're just getting into it,

00:28:52.960 --> 00:28:54.260
 you're opening up

00:28:54.260 --> 00:28:55.380
 your service to,

00:28:55.380 --> 00:28:56.420
 you know,

00:28:56.700 --> 00:28:57.180
 everybody,

00:28:57.600 --> 00:28:58.180
 which, you know,

00:28:58.220 --> 00:28:58.960
 people in their chat,

00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:59.460
 you've seen trolls

00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.820
 come in into an internet chat,

00:29:01.060 --> 00:29:01.200
 you know,

00:29:01.260 --> 00:29:01.960
 church chat room

00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:02.740
 and do whatever they do.

00:29:03.060 --> 00:29:03.760
 And so you're going to see

00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:05.100
 that in VR as well.

00:29:05.180 --> 00:29:05.740
 And so I think

00:29:05.740 --> 00:29:06.400
 just getting prepared

00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:07.100
 for that mentally,

00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:08.400
 I don't know

00:29:08.400 --> 00:29:09.040
 that it's a hurdle

00:29:09.040 --> 00:29:09.620
 or a challenge.

00:29:09.700 --> 00:29:11.280
 It's just being prepared.

00:29:11.280 --> 00:29:11.800
 And there's a lot

00:29:11.800 --> 00:29:13.460
 of great moderation tools

00:29:13.460 --> 00:29:14.000
 to deal with that,

00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:14.440
 to mute,

00:29:14.640 --> 00:29:15.120
 to block.

00:29:15.840 --> 00:29:17.080
 And they've been increasing

00:29:17.080 --> 00:29:17.940
 those tools even more

00:29:17.940 --> 00:29:18.300
 and more.

00:29:18.740 --> 00:29:19.360
 So particularly

00:29:19.360 --> 00:29:20.740
 our alt-based service,

00:29:20.800 --> 00:29:21.000
 I mean,

00:29:21.020 --> 00:29:21.920
 it's very moderated,

00:29:22.060 --> 00:29:23.020
 we can control it

00:29:23.020 --> 00:29:23.720
 very, very well.

00:29:24.800 --> 00:29:25.760
 VR chat still has

00:29:25.760 --> 00:29:26.600
 some work to do.

00:29:27.060 --> 00:29:28.080
 Anybody from VR chat

00:29:28.080 --> 00:29:28.500
 is watching.

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:29.520
 I love your platform,

00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.400
 but it is,

00:29:30.480 --> 00:29:30.640
 man,

00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:31.900
 you got some broken tools there.

00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:32.960
 Rec room is great too

00:29:32.960 --> 00:29:33.240
 as well.

00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:35.680
 And everyone in VR chat

00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:35.960
 knows that.

00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:36.380
 It's kind of like

00:29:36.380 --> 00:29:37.080
 everyone knows

00:29:37.080 --> 00:29:38.340
 this is glitchy

00:29:38.340 --> 00:29:40.000
 and has some issues.

00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:41.300
 But I think

00:29:41.300 --> 00:29:42.320
 that's one of the main

00:29:42.320 --> 00:29:43.080
 things I think

00:29:43.080 --> 00:29:44.620
 and it just is

00:29:44.620 --> 00:29:45.460
 the next step

00:29:45.460 --> 00:29:46.020
 for church online

00:29:46.020 --> 00:29:46.640
 in my brain.

00:29:46.920 --> 00:29:47.760
 If you have a church online

00:29:47.760 --> 00:29:48.660
 experience right now,

00:29:49.380 --> 00:29:50.180
 a virtual reality

00:29:50.180 --> 00:29:51.780
 campus is a no-brainer.

00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:53.000
 And that's something

00:29:53.000 --> 00:29:53.680
 that could be started

00:29:53.680 --> 00:29:54.220
 immediately.

00:29:54.640 --> 00:29:54.940
 I mean,

00:29:55.040 --> 00:29:55.800
 I'm sure maybe you want

00:29:55.800 --> 00:29:56.620
 to build a team around it

00:29:56.620 --> 00:29:57.980
 or cast some vision,

00:29:58.200 --> 00:29:59.320
 but it doesn't need

00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:00.380
 to be five years from now.

00:30:00.440 --> 00:30:00.880
 You can get

00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:02.780
 a small VR team going,

00:30:03.420 --> 00:30:03.540
 you know,

00:30:03.580 --> 00:30:04.640
 headsets are only $2.99

00:30:04.640 --> 00:30:06.360
 and it just makes

00:30:06.360 --> 00:30:07.160
 complete sense

00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:08.520
 to take your experience

00:30:08.520 --> 00:30:10.500
 from a 2D chat interface

00:30:10.500 --> 00:30:12.200
 into a face-to-face

00:30:12.200 --> 00:30:13.080
 interaction.

00:30:13.240 --> 00:30:13.460
 And so,

00:30:13.580 --> 00:30:15.200
 I'm actually kind of surprised

00:30:15.200 --> 00:30:16.640
 that we haven't seen

00:30:16.640 --> 00:30:17.040
 more of that.

00:30:17.140 --> 00:30:17.960
 JPO is the leader

00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:19.160
 in the hybrid model

00:30:19.160 --> 00:30:20.100
 and he's been doing,

00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:21.700
 they do a phenomenal job,

00:30:21.840 --> 00:30:22.180
 but man,

00:30:22.300 --> 00:30:23.440
 I would love to see

00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:24.100
 some other churches

00:30:24.100 --> 00:30:25.380
 get involved

00:30:25.380 --> 00:30:26.880
 in virtual reality,

00:30:27.360 --> 00:30:27.900
 the campus,

00:30:28.280 --> 00:30:29.000
 small groups.

00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:29.780
 I mean,

00:30:29.820 --> 00:30:30.200
 you name it,

00:30:30.260 --> 00:30:30.580
 something.

00:30:31.020 --> 00:30:32.080
 I think it's inevitable.

00:30:32.080 --> 00:30:33.080
 I think the technology

00:30:33.080 --> 00:30:33.560
 is inevitable

00:30:33.560 --> 00:30:35.280
 and hopefully they do.

00:30:35.400 --> 00:30:35.620
 Hopefully,

00:30:35.740 --> 00:30:35.960
 I know,

00:30:36.600 --> 00:30:36.980
 and I'm not talking

00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:37.440
 about everybody,

00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:39.140
 but just generically speaking,

00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:39.940
 the church goes kicking

00:30:39.940 --> 00:30:40.460
 and screaming

00:30:40.460 --> 00:30:41.440
 into new technology

00:30:41.440 --> 00:30:42.620
 and the website,

00:30:42.800 --> 00:30:42.940
 you know,

00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:43.580
 internet's evil,

00:30:43.680 --> 00:30:44.520
 let's not do a website,

00:30:44.680 --> 00:30:45.400
 oh, social media's evil,

00:30:45.460 --> 00:30:45.840
 let's not do,

00:30:46.080 --> 00:30:46.500
 and you know,

00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:47.260
 we just keep going

00:30:47.260 --> 00:30:47.980
 down this line

00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:49.960
 and unfortunately,

00:30:49.960 --> 00:30:50.640
 that attitude

00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.640
 has really left us,

00:30:52.260 --> 00:30:52.540
 and again,

00:30:52.620 --> 00:30:53.400
 I'm speaking generally,

00:30:53.500 --> 00:30:54.360
 unprepared for COVID,

00:30:54.560 --> 00:30:54.780
 you know,

00:30:54.860 --> 00:30:55.620
 there's a scrambling

00:30:55.620 --> 00:30:56.840
 and this desperation

00:30:56.840 --> 00:30:57.340
 that's happening

00:30:57.340 --> 00:30:57.980
 that didn't need

00:30:57.980 --> 00:30:58.820
 to happen at all.

00:30:59.340 --> 00:30:59.620
 And so,

00:30:59.720 --> 00:31:00.500
 in the same way,

00:31:00.600 --> 00:31:01.360
 I think as we look

00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:01.960
 into the future

00:31:01.960 --> 00:31:03.400
 of next generation technologies,

00:31:03.760 --> 00:31:03.900
 okay,

00:31:03.980 --> 00:31:04.200
 sure,

00:31:04.540 --> 00:31:05.640
 it might be years out,

00:31:05.720 --> 00:31:06.840
 but start experimenting

00:31:06.840 --> 00:31:07.420
 with it,

00:31:07.820 --> 00:31:09.360
 start getting some headsets,

00:31:09.540 --> 00:31:11.000
 get a little crew going,

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:11.240
 I mean,

00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:12.460
 you don't have to announce

00:31:12.460 --> 00:31:13.440
 or launch anything,

00:31:13.880 --> 00:31:15.140
 you can just start experimenting

00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:16.200
 and I think that's key

00:31:16.200 --> 00:31:18.040
 so that when the time comes,

00:31:18.140 --> 00:31:19.500
 you're not starting

00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:20.240
 the conversation,

00:31:20.580 --> 00:31:21.400
 you've already had it,

00:31:21.460 --> 00:31:22.520
 you've already experienced it

00:31:22.520 --> 00:31:23.640
 and you're ready to start,

00:31:23.820 --> 00:31:24.140
 you know,

00:31:24.340 --> 00:31:25.000
 integrating it

00:31:25.000 --> 00:31:25.420
 and so,

00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:26.360
 I think it's really important.

00:31:26.860 --> 00:31:27.040
 Yeah,

00:31:27.180 --> 00:31:27.400
 I mean,

00:31:27.500 --> 00:31:28.260
 we'll put a link

00:31:28.260 --> 00:31:30.140
 to the JPO episode

00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:32.560
 in the show notes,

00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:33.740
 phenomenal conversation.

00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:35.860
 I joke with him,

00:31:36.380 --> 00:31:38.100
 he couldn't spell VR

00:31:38.100 --> 00:31:39.580
 and seven months later,

00:31:39.680 --> 00:31:40.800
 he had a VR campus.

00:31:41.140 --> 00:31:41.560
 Yeah, yeah.

00:31:41.580 --> 00:31:42.160
 And it's just,

00:31:42.280 --> 00:31:43.740
 it was seven months,

00:31:44.040 --> 00:31:44.180
 hey,

00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:44.940
 this is interesting,

00:31:45.040 --> 00:31:46.080
 let me dig into it

00:31:46.080 --> 00:31:47.400
 and some volunteers

00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:48.320
 were interested

00:31:48.320 --> 00:31:49.220
 and I think he said

00:31:49.220 --> 00:31:50.340
 he spent $5,000,

00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:51.560
 $8,000,

00:31:51.920 --> 00:31:52.920
 it was under 10

00:31:52.920 --> 00:31:54.440
 but to create this,

00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:54.780
 this,

00:31:54.860 --> 00:31:55.340
 you know,

00:31:55.400 --> 00:31:56.440
 opportunity to connect

00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:56.800
 with people,

00:31:56.940 --> 00:31:58.320
 phenomenal story

00:31:58.320 --> 00:31:59.040
 and it's like,

00:31:59.120 --> 00:32:00.760
 he's a 300 person

00:32:00.760 --> 00:32:01.480
 small church,

00:32:01.620 --> 00:32:02.380
 like it's not like

00:32:02.380 --> 00:32:04.260
 it's a multi giga,

00:32:04.380 --> 00:32:05.420
 this is just a man,

00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:06.060
 he was like,

00:32:06.140 --> 00:32:06.240
 hey,

00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.400
 this is a passion,

00:32:07.540 --> 00:32:08.080
 go for it.

00:32:08.180 --> 00:32:09.420
 He almost had an easier time

00:32:09.420 --> 00:32:10.800
 I think than some of the,

00:32:10.800 --> 00:32:11.880
 some of the larger churches.

00:32:12.020 --> 00:32:12.880
 Let me bring up a quick point

00:32:12.880 --> 00:32:13.380
 if you don't mind

00:32:13.380 --> 00:32:15.180
 and that's,

00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:16.040
 that speaks to

00:32:16.040 --> 00:32:17.040
 technological leadership.

00:32:17.820 --> 00:32:18.420
 That's what,

00:32:18.540 --> 00:32:19.200
 when we're looking

00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:20.180
 into these next gen

00:32:20.180 --> 00:32:20.980
 and man,

00:32:21.060 --> 00:32:21.300
 man,

00:32:21.360 --> 00:32:22.220
 maybe not even next gen,

00:32:22.300 --> 00:32:23.500
 maybe this current

00:32:23.500 --> 00:32:24.620
 social media live streaming,

00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.700
 maybe just start there.

00:32:25.800 --> 00:32:26.380
 We need to be looking

00:32:26.380 --> 00:32:27.580
 for the technological leaders

00:32:27.580 --> 00:32:28.140
 in our church

00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:29.780
 and that doesn't necessarily

00:32:29.780 --> 00:32:30.640
 mean IT.

00:32:31.140 --> 00:32:32.460
 Just because someone can do,

00:32:32.700 --> 00:32:32.880
 you know,

00:32:32.880 --> 00:32:33.500
 set up a server,

00:32:33.620 --> 00:32:34.680
 amazing and run a network,

00:32:35.040 --> 00:32:36.020
 does it mean they have

00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.900
 technological vision?

00:32:36.960 --> 00:32:37.320
 They might,

00:32:37.860 --> 00:32:38.960
 but I've interacted

00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:40.460
 with a lot of great IT guys

00:32:40.460 --> 00:32:41.380
 that don't have that vision

00:32:41.380 --> 00:32:42.760
 for next generation technologies.

00:32:42.900 --> 00:32:43.920
 They're great at implementation.

00:32:44.900 --> 00:32:45.360
 And so,

00:32:45.700 --> 00:32:46.460
 the reason I say that

00:32:46.460 --> 00:32:47.140
 is that I don't know

00:32:47.140 --> 00:32:47.700
 that you would,

00:32:48.200 --> 00:32:48.480
 you know,

00:32:48.500 --> 00:32:49.560
 take a quick glance

00:32:49.560 --> 00:32:50.020
 and see,

00:32:50.160 --> 00:32:50.580
 don't just say,

00:32:50.640 --> 00:32:50.760
 all right,

00:32:50.840 --> 00:32:51.500
 give it to the IT.

00:32:51.700 --> 00:32:52.060
 You know what I mean?

00:32:52.420 --> 00:32:53.620
 That may or may not be a thing,

00:32:53.680 --> 00:32:55.120
 but look for technological leadership.

00:32:55.280 --> 00:32:56.180
 I think that's their distinction.

00:32:56.600 --> 00:32:56.880
 And again,

00:32:56.940 --> 00:32:57.780
 it could be the same,

00:32:57.860 --> 00:32:57.960
 but,

00:32:58.460 --> 00:33:00.060
 and so look for that leadership

00:33:00.060 --> 00:33:01.080
 in it and empower them.

00:33:01.160 --> 00:33:01.840
 And so I've had,

00:33:01.900 --> 00:33:03.100
 we have people come to our church

00:33:03.100 --> 00:33:04.120
 that,

00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:04.380
 you know,

00:33:04.420 --> 00:33:05.320
 they've gone to their pastor

00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:05.560
 and,

00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:05.700
 you know,

00:33:05.760 --> 00:33:06.220
 the pastor says,

00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:06.480
 you know,

00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:07.460
 how can you help us out here

00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:07.960
 at our church?

00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:08.320
 And they're like,

00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:08.460
 well,

00:33:08.460 --> 00:33:09.360
 I can do 3D modeling

00:33:09.360 --> 00:33:10.440
 and I can do this,

00:33:10.500 --> 00:33:10.880
 I can do that.

00:33:10.940 --> 00:33:11.720
 And the pastor's like,

00:33:11.740 --> 00:33:11.900
 oh,

00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:12.820
 we don't got any of that,

00:33:12.860 --> 00:33:13.020
 right?

00:33:13.020 --> 00:33:14.820
 And so you have the people

00:33:14.820 --> 00:33:15.480
 in the church

00:33:15.480 --> 00:33:16.440
 with the vision

00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:17.280
 and the technology

00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:18.180
 and we just,

00:33:18.280 --> 00:33:18.960
 you just need the leadership

00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:19.500
 for it.

00:33:19.760 --> 00:33:21.520
 And so what surprises people

00:33:21.520 --> 00:33:23.780
 is that I'm not really

00:33:23.780 --> 00:33:24.800
 very technical

00:33:24.800 --> 00:33:25.660
 to the degree of,

00:33:25.720 --> 00:33:26.040
 I don't know,

00:33:26.160 --> 00:33:27.500
 Unity or Blender

00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:28.240
 or all these,

00:33:28.440 --> 00:33:28.840
 or Maya.

00:33:31.160 --> 00:33:32.800
 I have other people

00:33:32.800 --> 00:33:33.340
 do that for me,

00:33:33.400 --> 00:33:34.460
 but what I do shine in

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:36.120
 is in technological leadership,

00:33:36.620 --> 00:33:36.740
 you know,

00:33:36.780 --> 00:33:37.640
 passion for the tech,

00:33:38.160 --> 00:33:39.160
 the capacity

00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:40.280
 to lead people forward.

00:33:40.680 --> 00:33:41.360
 And so I think that's,

00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:42.080
 I think that's powerful.

00:33:42.280 --> 00:33:43.860
 So it's in the churches,

00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:44.540
 you know,

00:33:44.780 --> 00:33:45.360
 so when you think

00:33:45.360 --> 00:33:46.920
 of current technology

00:33:46.920 --> 00:33:48.300
 and next generation technology,

00:33:48.300 --> 00:33:49.080
 it's there, man.

00:33:49.320 --> 00:33:50.200
 You just got to find it

00:33:50.200 --> 00:33:51.340
 and encourage it,

00:33:51.420 --> 00:33:51.900
 empower it.

00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:53.440
 So if a church was one,

00:33:53.660 --> 00:33:55.120
 I was totally not even thinking

00:33:55.120 --> 00:33:55.580
 we were going to have

00:33:55.580 --> 00:33:56.120
 this conversation,

00:33:56.120 --> 00:33:56.720
 but it's fun.

00:33:56.780 --> 00:33:57.220
 Let's just keep

00:33:57.220 --> 00:33:58.100
 following the rabbit trail.

00:33:58.560 --> 00:33:59.500
 If a church is one

00:33:59.500 --> 00:34:00.900
 to start a,

00:34:00.900 --> 00:34:02.200
 a campus,

00:34:02.600 --> 00:34:02.840
 I mean,

00:34:02.880 --> 00:34:04.380
 obviously the world building,

00:34:04.460 --> 00:34:05.340
 the technology,

00:34:06.220 --> 00:34:06.620
 get the,

00:34:06.620 --> 00:34:07.480
 get the headset,

00:34:07.780 --> 00:34:08.660
 understand the,

00:34:08.700 --> 00:34:08.900
 you know,

00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:10.100
 the culture of the people.

00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:11.280
 There,

00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:11.640
 there's,

00:34:11.700 --> 00:34:12.560
 there's challenges.

00:34:12.720 --> 00:34:13.000
 There's things

00:34:13.000 --> 00:34:13.660
 we're going to have to overcome

00:34:13.660 --> 00:34:14.420
 because once again,

00:34:14.420 --> 00:34:16.000
 it's not recreating

00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:17.240
 what's done physically,

00:34:17.460 --> 00:34:17.800
 digitally.

00:34:17.800 --> 00:34:18.880
 It's re-imagining

00:34:18.880 --> 00:34:20.420
 the ecclesiology

00:34:20.420 --> 00:34:21.260
 and doing it,

00:34:21.340 --> 00:34:22.860
 doing it within virtual reality.

00:34:22.860 --> 00:34:25.280
 So what are some steps?

00:34:25.380 --> 00:34:26.340
 What are some challenges?

00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:27.760
 What are some of the differences

00:34:27.760 --> 00:34:29.300
 between the physical

00:34:29.300 --> 00:34:29.800
 and the more,

00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:30.400
 more practical?

00:34:30.540 --> 00:34:30.660
 Yeah,

00:34:30.740 --> 00:34:31.240
 technological,

00:34:31.480 --> 00:34:32.380
 definitely differences,

00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.060
 but,

00:34:33.140 --> 00:34:34.100
 but more practical.

00:34:34.100 --> 00:34:34.680
 How's that,

00:34:34.820 --> 00:34:36.400
 how's that pastor going to preach

00:34:36.400 --> 00:34:37.620
 in virtual reality?

00:34:37.740 --> 00:34:37.820
 What,

00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:39.600
 what are those small groups

00:34:39.600 --> 00:34:40.760
 look like?

00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.000
 How,

00:34:41.080 --> 00:34:42.500
 how do you create community

00:34:42.500 --> 00:34:43.540
 with,

00:34:43.680 --> 00:34:44.100
 you know,

00:34:44.160 --> 00:34:44.880
 virtual reality

00:34:44.880 --> 00:34:46.060
 where you can't hug people

00:34:46.060 --> 00:34:46.720
 and they can't afford

00:34:46.720 --> 00:34:47.460
 the haptic suit?

00:34:47.940 --> 00:34:48.300
 like,

00:34:48.440 --> 00:34:50.560
 let's make some practical insight here.

00:34:50.860 --> 00:34:51.020
 Yeah,

00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:51.820
 that's some,

00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:52.920
 that's some good questions.

00:34:54.300 --> 00:34:54.700
 My,

00:34:54.780 --> 00:34:55.000
 my,

00:34:55.080 --> 00:34:55.960
 my brain's running through

00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:56.620
 a couple of different,

00:34:56.780 --> 00:34:57.800
 different things.

00:34:59.240 --> 00:35:00.880
 And so one of the things I think,

00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:02.020
 and this is not necessarily

00:35:02.020 --> 00:35:02.480
 a bad thing,

00:35:02.540 --> 00:35:04.120
 but when you think

00:35:04.120 --> 00:35:05.040
 about virtual reality,

00:35:05.040 --> 00:35:06.280
 you're looking for individuals

00:35:06.280 --> 00:35:07.900
 that are going to dive

00:35:07.900 --> 00:35:08.380
 into the tech.

00:35:08.460 --> 00:35:10.540
 So I know some physical church pastors

00:35:10.540 --> 00:35:12.660
 that are amazing pastors,

00:35:13.220 --> 00:35:13.740
 kill it,

00:35:14.020 --> 00:35:14.880
 do an amazing job.

00:35:14.940 --> 00:35:15.620
 They would be horrible

00:35:15.620 --> 00:35:16.940
 digital virtual reality pastors.

00:35:16.940 --> 00:35:18.040
 They couldn't manage

00:35:18.040 --> 00:35:18.960
 like the tech or whatever.

00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:20.340
 And so what I think,

00:35:20.660 --> 00:35:21.440
 the reason I say that,

00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:22.180
 maybe I'm getting off,

00:35:22.380 --> 00:35:23.340
 off on your question here,

00:35:23.440 --> 00:35:24.660
 is just a kind of a thought

00:35:24.660 --> 00:35:25.400
 I wanted to go on,

00:35:25.800 --> 00:35:28.260
 is that there are people

00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.600
 that are,

00:35:28.780 --> 00:35:29.860
 that could be amazing

00:35:29.860 --> 00:35:31.740
 digital virtual reality pastors

00:35:31.740 --> 00:35:32.600
 that might not be

00:35:32.600 --> 00:35:33.320
 good physical pastors.

00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:35.300
 So it's just kind of

00:35:35.300 --> 00:35:35.920
 viewing things

00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:36.960
 through a different lens

00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:38.880
 to see who those people are.

00:35:38.960 --> 00:35:40.100
 So to not just look at them

00:35:40.100 --> 00:35:40.300
 and go,

00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:40.500
 oh,

00:35:40.540 --> 00:35:40.640
 they,

00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:41.460
 they wouldn't be able

00:35:41.460 --> 00:35:42.640
 to lead a church

00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:43.380
 of a thousand.

00:35:43.500 --> 00:35:43.580
 Well,

00:35:43.640 --> 00:35:43.780
 no,

00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:43.880
 no,

00:35:43.900 --> 00:35:44.000
 no,

00:35:44.040 --> 00:35:44.620
 but they could lead

00:35:44.620 --> 00:35:45.700
 a thousand digitally,

00:35:46.220 --> 00:35:46.940
 hands down,

00:35:47.060 --> 00:35:47.400
 easy.

00:35:48.020 --> 00:35:49.860
 And so I think

00:35:49.860 --> 00:35:50.800
 that's an important part,

00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:51.260
 you know,

00:35:51.260 --> 00:35:52.260
 just to mention as well.

00:35:52.740 --> 00:35:53.020
 But,

00:35:53.120 --> 00:35:54.440
 I think I got off track

00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:54.940
 on your question.

00:35:55.000 --> 00:35:55.800
 What was the core

00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:56.620
 of what you're asking again?

00:35:57.180 --> 00:35:58.020
 Just what are some,

00:35:58.080 --> 00:35:58.380
 by the way,

00:35:58.420 --> 00:35:59.360
 I love that.

00:35:59.640 --> 00:36:00.600
 Let me back up

00:36:00.600 --> 00:36:01.820
 to your offshoot.

00:36:02.280 --> 00:36:03.140
 I have thought,

00:36:03.220 --> 00:36:03.920
 it's one of the things

00:36:03.920 --> 00:36:04.680
 with Stadium

00:36:04.680 --> 00:36:05.520
 where we're evaluating

00:36:05.520 --> 00:36:08.120
 digital only church planting,

00:36:08.500 --> 00:36:09.200
 like planters

00:36:09.200 --> 00:36:10.320
 that want to plant digitally,

00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:11.480
 a lot of that assessment.

00:36:12.240 --> 00:36:14.100
 I think in the experiments

00:36:14.100 --> 00:36:15.020
 so far have showed

00:36:15.020 --> 00:36:16.780
 that the assessing

00:36:16.780 --> 00:36:19.060
 for a physical campus pastor

00:36:19.060 --> 00:36:20.320
 is completely different

00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:21.540
 than assessing

00:36:21.540 --> 00:36:23.100
 a digital campus pastor.

00:36:23.120 --> 00:36:24.180
 or a digital pastor,

00:36:24.480 --> 00:36:25.160
 physical pastor,

00:36:25.320 --> 00:36:25.880
 digital pastor,

00:36:26.020 --> 00:36:26.800
 lead pastor role.

00:36:27.200 --> 00:36:28.140
 Because the,

00:36:28.140 --> 00:36:29.780
 the comfortability,

00:36:30.080 --> 00:36:30.260
 the,

00:36:30.260 --> 00:36:32.480
 the communication styles,

00:36:32.600 --> 00:36:33.160
 you're not standing

00:36:33.160 --> 00:36:34.080
 in front of a stage

00:36:34.080 --> 00:36:35.300
 speaking in front of thousands.

00:36:35.520 --> 00:36:36.780
 You're building relationships

00:36:36.780 --> 00:36:37.900
 with individuals

00:36:37.900 --> 00:36:38.720
 and it's more,

00:36:38.840 --> 00:36:39.620
 more stronger

00:36:39.620 --> 00:36:41.080
 on the disciple making piece.

00:36:41.360 --> 00:36:42.040
 And I would imagine

00:36:42.040 --> 00:36:43.100
 that's even amplified

00:36:43.100 --> 00:36:44.180
 even more so

00:36:44.180 --> 00:36:45.020
 that you need

00:36:45.020 --> 00:36:45.900
 to be more relational

00:36:45.900 --> 00:36:46.880
 in virtual reality

00:36:46.880 --> 00:36:48.720
 because you're overcoming

00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:49.800
 that coldness

00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:50.980
 of the technology.

00:36:50.980 --> 00:36:52.340
 You really can't be distant

00:36:52.340 --> 00:36:53.200
 in virtual reality.

00:36:53.200 --> 00:36:54.780
 You have to lean in

00:36:54.780 --> 00:36:56.200
 into those relationships

00:36:56.200 --> 00:36:57.120
 and into those people.

00:36:57.540 --> 00:36:58.240
 Virtual reality

00:36:58.240 --> 00:36:59.220
 and digital church planting

00:36:59.220 --> 00:37:00.260
 as opposed to,

00:37:00.260 --> 00:37:00.740
 you know,

00:37:00.780 --> 00:37:02.380
 maybe if you're preaching

00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:03.200
 and you're lead pastor

00:37:03.200 --> 00:37:04.260
 of a thousand person church,

00:37:04.260 --> 00:37:05.440
 you can probably have

00:37:05.440 --> 00:37:07.500
 some more anonymity there.

00:37:08.000 --> 00:37:08.860
 It's interesting.

00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:09.540
 I want,

00:37:09.600 --> 00:37:10.440
 I want to ask you this.

00:37:10.520 --> 00:37:11.540
 I forget the other question.

00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:13.220
 There was a,

00:37:14.220 --> 00:37:14.480
 I was,

00:37:14.560 --> 00:37:15.440
 I had this conversation

00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:16.520
 with Jade last,

00:37:17.340 --> 00:37:18.640
 literally the podcast episode

00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:19.240
 from last week

00:37:19.240 --> 00:37:21.360
 and he made this,

00:37:21.480 --> 00:37:22.400
 he made this statement.

00:37:22.520 --> 00:37:22.880
 He says,

00:37:23.320 --> 00:37:24.180
 when I'm on Twitch

00:37:24.180 --> 00:37:25.200
 and I'm broadcasting,

00:37:25.700 --> 00:37:27.360
 I admit that sometimes

00:37:27.360 --> 00:37:27.640
 I,

00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:28.000
 the,

00:37:28.120 --> 00:37:29.720
 the number of the people

00:37:29.720 --> 00:37:31.180
 get so big,

00:37:31.720 --> 00:37:33.020
 I cannot communicate

00:37:33.020 --> 00:37:34.060
 with them effectively

00:37:34.060 --> 00:37:34.760
 and I feel bad

00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:35.440
 that I'm not,

00:37:35.540 --> 00:37:36.660
 I'm ignoring them

00:37:36.660 --> 00:37:37.360
 because I've got

00:37:37.360 --> 00:37:38.460
 so many people following me.

00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:39.340
 I can't give them

00:37:39.340 --> 00:37:40.640
 adequate attention.

00:37:41.020 --> 00:37:42.360
 And this is why

00:37:42.360 --> 00:37:43.500
 he wants to,

00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:44.660
 and he's in the process

00:37:44.660 --> 00:37:45.840
 of training others

00:37:45.840 --> 00:37:46.860
 to broadcast.

00:37:47.740 --> 00:37:48.620
 Jade's mind,

00:37:48.780 --> 00:37:49.440
 it's not,

00:37:49.780 --> 00:37:51.040
 I want a million people

00:37:51.040 --> 00:37:52.000
 watching my broadcast

00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:54.040
 and I may be overstating here,

00:37:54.080 --> 00:37:55.200
 but he wants a hundred thousand

00:37:55.200 --> 00:37:56.220
 people broadcasting

00:37:56.220 --> 00:37:57.560
 to 10.

00:37:57.860 --> 00:37:58.860
 And so it's,

00:37:58.860 --> 00:38:00.560
 it's more of a smallness

00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:01.560
 in intimacy

00:38:01.560 --> 00:38:04.700
 versus having the big giant

00:38:04.700 --> 00:38:06.500
 broadcast following.

00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:06.860
 Right.

00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:07.640
 I'm just curious

00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:08.480
 and I don't even know

00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:09.160
 where this is going to go,

00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:10.840
 but what does that look like

00:38:10.840 --> 00:38:11.140
 in,

00:38:11.180 --> 00:38:11.900
 in VR,

00:38:12.060 --> 00:38:12.860
 in virtual reality?

00:38:13.000 --> 00:38:13.280
 You've,

00:38:13.280 --> 00:38:14.940
 you've got five churches already.

00:38:15.200 --> 00:38:16.920
 Was there intentionality of,

00:38:17.020 --> 00:38:17.080
 man,

00:38:17.100 --> 00:38:17.940
 we really want to keep

00:38:17.940 --> 00:38:19.000
 the church this size

00:38:19.000 --> 00:38:19.700
 and we just want to

00:38:19.700 --> 00:38:21.940
 multiply out that size

00:38:21.940 --> 00:38:22.840
 or are you,

00:38:23.160 --> 00:38:24.360
 is it more scalable?

00:38:24.620 --> 00:38:24.740
 What,

00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:25.740
 what's your track record

00:38:25.740 --> 00:38:26.100
 on that?

00:38:26.260 --> 00:38:26.680
 What do you think?

00:38:26.740 --> 00:38:27.640
 Here's what I love.

00:38:27.700 --> 00:38:28.520
 And it's not necessarily

00:38:28.520 --> 00:38:29.480
 by our design.

00:38:29.580 --> 00:38:29.840
 It's think,

00:38:29.920 --> 00:38:30.780
 I think it's a platform

00:38:30.780 --> 00:38:31.580
 designing us,

00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.980
 meaning each platform

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:34.600
 is different

00:38:34.600 --> 00:38:35.760
 and it has different

00:38:35.760 --> 00:38:36.860
 constraints.

00:38:37.140 --> 00:38:38.720
 So our alt space church

00:38:38.720 --> 00:38:39.240
 tends to be

00:38:39.240 --> 00:38:40.100
 our mega church model.

00:38:40.180 --> 00:38:41.260
 It's just a large event,

00:38:41.620 --> 00:38:42.040
 you know,

00:38:42.040 --> 00:38:42.640
 screens,

00:38:42.640 --> 00:38:43.200
 you know,

00:38:43.320 --> 00:38:44.000
 it's just kind of

00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:45.580
 the lights and the smoke

00:38:45.580 --> 00:38:46.880
 almost element to it.

00:38:47.600 --> 00:38:48.580
 Rec room has limits

00:38:48.580 --> 00:38:49.780
 on their room number.

00:38:49.880 --> 00:38:50.300
 So in alt space,

00:38:50.360 --> 00:38:51.060
 we can technically have

00:38:51.060 --> 00:38:51.960
 unlimited people

00:38:51.960 --> 00:38:52.680
 in our service,

00:38:53.180 --> 00:38:53.320
 you know,

00:38:53.320 --> 00:38:53.500
 a hundred,

00:38:53.620 --> 00:38:53.880
 a thousand,

00:38:54.020 --> 00:38:54.220
 whatever.

00:38:55.180 --> 00:38:56.080
 Rec room has limits

00:38:56.080 --> 00:38:56.780
 to like 30.

00:38:57.280 --> 00:38:58.200
 VR chat has

00:38:58.200 --> 00:38:59.980
 network limits.

00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:00.680
 I think you can have it

00:39:00.680 --> 00:39:01.100
 up to 40,

00:39:01.160 --> 00:39:01.840
 but network limits

00:39:01.840 --> 00:39:02.360
 up to 20.

00:39:02.440 --> 00:39:03.060
 And then now you have

00:39:03.060 --> 00:39:04.040
 Facebook horizons

00:39:04.040 --> 00:39:05.480
 where eight are in a room.

00:39:05.620 --> 00:39:06.760
 So we have these

00:39:06.760 --> 00:39:07.740
 different limits

00:39:07.740 --> 00:39:08.840
 of how many people

00:39:08.840 --> 00:39:09.840
 can be in a room.

00:39:09.900 --> 00:39:10.520
 And so that's been

00:39:10.520 --> 00:39:11.600
 dictating us

00:39:11.600 --> 00:39:12.380
 in a beautiful way,

00:39:12.400 --> 00:39:13.020
 in a good way,

00:39:13.020 --> 00:39:14.200
 where we have

00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:15.020
 different models

00:39:15.020 --> 00:39:16.140
 of church in the metaverse,

00:39:16.520 --> 00:39:17.480
 mega church all the way

00:39:17.480 --> 00:39:18.540
 to the house church model.

00:39:18.720 --> 00:39:19.600
 And that's when we go

00:39:19.600 --> 00:39:21.520
 into Facebook horizons,

00:39:21.520 --> 00:39:22.180
 it's going to be like

00:39:22.180 --> 00:39:22.920
 a house church model,

00:39:23.020 --> 00:39:23.840
 small gatherings,

00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:25.420
 house to house type of thing.

00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:28.060
 And so I think that

00:39:28.060 --> 00:39:28.760
 for us,

00:39:28.820 --> 00:39:29.480
 it's both.

00:39:29.580 --> 00:39:30.580
 We're able to focus

00:39:30.580 --> 00:39:31.880
 on a handful

00:39:31.880 --> 00:39:33.060
 and we're also able

00:39:33.060 --> 00:39:34.240
 to have that

00:39:34.240 --> 00:39:35.560
 those large scale events.

00:39:35.700 --> 00:39:36.700
 So I think we're blessed

00:39:36.700 --> 00:39:37.620
 to kind of be

00:39:37.620 --> 00:39:38.380
 in both worlds.

00:39:38.540 --> 00:39:38.840
 You know what I mean?

00:39:39.020 --> 00:39:39.920
 We don't have to be

00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.880
 just the house church

00:39:40.880 --> 00:39:41.820
 and we don't have to be

00:39:41.820 --> 00:39:42.420
 just mega church.

00:39:42.500 --> 00:39:43.580
 We can actually be all of it.

00:39:44.180 --> 00:39:45.720
 And it's pretty awesome.

00:39:45.780 --> 00:39:45.900
 Yeah.

00:39:45.940 --> 00:39:46.500
 And I love it.

00:39:46.580 --> 00:39:47.080
 I love that.

00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:48.600
 I love that we're

00:39:48.600 --> 00:39:49.740
 experiencing church that way.

00:39:50.380 --> 00:39:51.200
 When did you,

00:39:51.260 --> 00:39:51.920
 I don't think you said,

00:39:52.020 --> 00:39:52.840
 when does horizons,

00:39:53.060 --> 00:39:53.960
 Facebook horizons come?

00:39:54.020 --> 00:39:55.000
 Is there a street date on that?

00:39:55.340 --> 00:39:56.040
 I don't know.

00:39:56.300 --> 00:39:57.360
 They have not given

00:39:57.360 --> 00:39:57.880
 a street date.

00:39:57.960 --> 00:39:58.800
 It's in beta right now,

00:39:58.920 --> 00:39:59.420
 closed beta.

00:39:59.580 --> 00:40:00.740
 So some of us have access

00:40:00.740 --> 00:40:02.020
 and we've been exploring

00:40:02.020 --> 00:40:02.500
 the worlds

00:40:02.500 --> 00:40:03.160
 and hanging out.

00:40:03.260 --> 00:40:04.000
 And so it's been cool.

00:40:04.340 --> 00:40:05.320
 But I don't know

00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:06.820
 when that's going to be.

00:40:06.940 --> 00:40:07.240
 And I don't,

00:40:07.360 --> 00:40:08.240
 you don't seem to see it

00:40:08.240 --> 00:40:09.060
 on Facebook much.

00:40:09.220 --> 00:40:10.120
 So I don't think

00:40:10.120 --> 00:40:11.520
 they're talking about it

00:40:11.520 --> 00:40:12.220
 just yet.

00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:14.000
 But in beta,

00:40:14.400 --> 00:40:14.900
 is it,

00:40:14.900 --> 00:40:16.040
 it's attached to,

00:40:16.100 --> 00:40:16.260
 I mean,

00:40:16.280 --> 00:40:16.560
 it's your,

00:40:16.560 --> 00:40:18.660
 it's your Facebook profile.

00:40:19.200 --> 00:40:20.360
 It's your account.

00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:21.480
 Like it's like your,

00:40:21.700 --> 00:40:22.980
 the mobile app

00:40:22.980 --> 00:40:24.460
 and horizons

00:40:24.460 --> 00:40:25.620
 are all linked together

00:40:25.620 --> 00:40:26.820
 and it's a social media,

00:40:26.860 --> 00:40:28.540
 like that is intriguing to me.

00:40:28.840 --> 00:40:29.860
 And I would,

00:40:30.440 --> 00:40:31.560
 this is kind of going off

00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:32.160
 and this isn't,

00:40:32.280 --> 00:40:32.880
 these aren't necessarily

00:40:32.880 --> 00:40:33.700
 prepared thoughts,

00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:35.320
 but just the thought is,

00:40:35.640 --> 00:40:36.900
 I think it's going to do

00:40:36.900 --> 00:40:38.100
 wonders for Facebook

00:40:38.100 --> 00:40:38.900
 in the positive way.

00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:39.640
 I think Facebook

00:40:39.640 --> 00:40:40.640
 has a lot of negativity

00:40:40.640 --> 00:40:41.640
 directed towards it,

00:40:42.060 --> 00:40:42.260
 you know,

00:40:42.300 --> 00:40:42.640
 and maybe,

00:40:42.780 --> 00:40:43.920
 maybe fair enough

00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:44.620
 for good reasons

00:40:44.620 --> 00:40:45.000
 or whatever.

00:40:45.000 --> 00:40:45.360
 But,

00:40:45.560 --> 00:40:46.040
 you know,

00:40:46.120 --> 00:40:46.420
 there's,

00:40:46.560 --> 00:40:46.820
 you know,

00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:48.140
 comments can tend

00:40:48.140 --> 00:40:48.920
 to be negative,

00:40:49.180 --> 00:40:49.360
 you know,

00:40:49.440 --> 00:40:49.940
 misinformation.

00:40:50.240 --> 00:40:50.340
 You know,

00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:51.020
 there's all these things

00:40:51.020 --> 00:40:52.200
 swirling around

00:40:52.200 --> 00:40:52.780
 the Facebook,

00:40:53.060 --> 00:40:53.320
 you know,

00:40:53.380 --> 00:40:53.660
 anger.

00:40:53.920 --> 00:40:55.580
 But what Horizons does

00:40:55.580 --> 00:40:56.300
 is it puts you back

00:40:56.300 --> 00:40:57.100
 face to face

00:40:57.100 --> 00:40:58.680
 to talking with individuals,

00:40:58.760 --> 00:40:59.300
 to hanging out

00:40:59.300 --> 00:41:00.120
 with a group of people.

00:41:00.320 --> 00:41:01.420
 And there's an immediate

00:41:01.420 --> 00:41:02.900
 sense of camaraderie

00:41:02.900 --> 00:41:03.560
 that I've noticed.

00:41:03.840 --> 00:41:04.240
 So sure,

00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:04.980
 there's a troll here,

00:41:05.040 --> 00:41:05.640
 there's a troll there,

00:41:05.640 --> 00:41:05.840
 but,

00:41:05.940 --> 00:41:06.520
 but it,

00:41:06.600 --> 00:41:07.100
 that's a,

00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:07.480
 that's a,

00:41:07.660 --> 00:41:08.260
 those eight people

00:41:08.260 --> 00:41:09.300
 interacting in,

00:41:09.380 --> 00:41:10.820
 in Facebook Horizons VR

00:41:10.820 --> 00:41:11.440
 is different

00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:12.800
 than say eight people

00:41:12.800 --> 00:41:13.200
 acting,

00:41:13.480 --> 00:41:14.960
 interacting on Facebook,

00:41:15.260 --> 00:41:15.520
 you know,

00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:15.700
 the,

00:41:15.700 --> 00:41:16.520
 the website version.

00:41:16.780 --> 00:41:17.960
 And so I think

00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:18.600
 when we think

00:41:18.600 --> 00:41:19.380
 of social media,

00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:19.940
 I feel like

00:41:19.940 --> 00:41:20.720
 when people talk about,

00:41:20.800 --> 00:41:21.300
 they talk about

00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:23.520
 the ruin of us.

00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:24.780
 But VR,

00:41:25.220 --> 00:41:25.960
 Facebook Horizons,

00:41:26.000 --> 00:41:26.620
 I think is where

00:41:26.620 --> 00:41:27.140
 we're going to see

00:41:27.140 --> 00:41:28.140
 the turn go upward

00:41:28.140 --> 00:41:29.100
 because now we're

00:41:29.100 --> 00:41:29.820
 face to face

00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:30.700
 having those interactions.

00:41:31.240 --> 00:41:31.740
 And so I've,

00:41:31.800 --> 00:41:32.260
 I didn't see this

00:41:32.260 --> 00:41:32.680
 in Facebook.

00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:34.060
 I saw this in an alt space

00:41:34.060 --> 00:41:35.100
 where I've seen people

00:41:35.100 --> 00:41:36.640
 with two diametrically

00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:37.520
 opposed positions.

00:41:37.700 --> 00:41:37.740
 They're,

00:41:37.740 --> 00:41:38.740
 they're having conversations

00:41:38.740 --> 00:41:40.280
 and yeah,

00:41:40.300 --> 00:41:40.720
 sure it was,

00:41:40.780 --> 00:41:41.180
 it was heated,

00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.820
 it was tense,

00:41:41.840 --> 00:41:42.820
 but there was this element

00:41:42.820 --> 00:41:43.640
 of understanding

00:41:43.640 --> 00:41:44.780
 because you're hearing

00:41:44.780 --> 00:41:45.300
 their voice,

00:41:45.380 --> 00:41:46.040
 you're seeing their face,

00:41:46.080 --> 00:41:46.540
 you're seeing their,

00:41:46.580 --> 00:41:47.180
 their remote,

00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:48.520
 their reaction

00:41:48.520 --> 00:41:50.760
 and you are

00:41:50.760 --> 00:41:51.820
 more empathetic.

00:41:52.100 --> 00:41:53.120
 Now take that same

00:41:53.120 --> 00:41:54.160
 conversation and put it

00:41:54.160 --> 00:41:54.400
 on the,

00:41:54.440 --> 00:41:55.040
 on the website

00:41:55.040 --> 00:41:55.800
 and that's going to

00:41:55.800 --> 00:41:56.640
 go downhill quickly.

00:41:56.640 --> 00:41:57.980
 So I think,

00:41:58.140 --> 00:41:59.820
 I don't want to say,

00:41:59.940 --> 00:42:00.740
 I don't want to say

00:42:00.740 --> 00:42:02.540
 VR is the savior,

00:42:02.540 --> 00:42:02.880
 right?

00:42:03.140 --> 00:42:04.020
 But I think it's going

00:42:04.020 --> 00:42:05.520
 to shift social media

00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:07.020
 into a positive experience.

00:42:07.600 --> 00:42:07.840
 Awesome.

00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:09.120
 I cannot wait.

00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:11.340
 I will definitely be,

00:42:11.500 --> 00:42:12.620
 I guess I wasn't blessed.

00:42:12.700 --> 00:42:13.260
 I'm not cool enough

00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:14.060
 to get into the beta.

00:42:14.200 --> 00:42:14.460
 Actually,

00:42:14.460 --> 00:42:15.100
 I'm not that much

00:42:15.100 --> 00:42:15.820
 of a VR guy.

00:42:16.480 --> 00:42:16.840
 Personally,

00:42:17.100 --> 00:42:18.020
 I've got the set

00:42:18.020 --> 00:42:19.280
 and I do explore it,

00:42:19.380 --> 00:42:21.560
 but I cannot wait

00:42:21.560 --> 00:42:23.220
 to dive into that,

00:42:23.340 --> 00:42:24.360
 to try to see

00:42:24.360 --> 00:42:25.960
 how Facebook ties

00:42:25.960 --> 00:42:27.080
 into social media,

00:42:27.300 --> 00:42:28.380
 networking,

00:42:28.620 --> 00:42:29.260
 and then puts

00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:29.860
 all this together.

00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:30.700
 I too,

00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:31.460
 I think that's going

00:42:31.460 --> 00:42:31.660
 to be,

00:42:31.760 --> 00:42:32.560
 it's a revolutionary

00:42:32.560 --> 00:42:33.280
 concept.

00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:34.300
 I can't,

00:42:34.300 --> 00:42:35.100
 can't wait for,

00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:35.920
 you know,

00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.780
 the mixed reality.

00:42:37.080 --> 00:42:37.680
 That's a whole

00:42:37.680 --> 00:42:38.440
 other conversation.

00:42:38.660 --> 00:42:39.320
 I don't want to follow

00:42:39.320 --> 00:42:40.160
 that rabbit trail today.

00:42:40.160 --> 00:42:40.960
 We will one day.

00:42:41.360 --> 00:42:42.460
 Today's not that day.

00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:42.960
 But,

00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:43.700
 and I do want to,

00:42:43.760 --> 00:42:44.340
 because I really,

00:42:44.500 --> 00:42:45.220
 I want to have

00:42:45.220 --> 00:42:45.920
 another conversation

00:42:45.920 --> 00:42:46.820
 where we've,

00:42:47.200 --> 00:42:47.840
 it's funny,

00:42:48.000 --> 00:42:49.480
 you're the bleeding edge guy.

00:42:49.740 --> 00:42:50.040
 Like,

00:42:50.100 --> 00:42:51.040
 you've been bleeding edge.

00:42:51.180 --> 00:42:52.260
 You launched this thing

00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:54.260
 in 2016,

00:42:54.960 --> 00:42:55.380
 17.

00:42:55.840 --> 00:42:56.640
 And so,

00:42:56.760 --> 00:42:57.020
 like,

00:42:57.140 --> 00:42:57.680
 you've been doing

00:42:57.680 --> 00:42:58.300
 virtual reality

00:42:58.300 --> 00:42:58.940
 for a while.

00:42:59.380 --> 00:42:59.420
 And,

00:42:59.720 --> 00:43:00.060
 but the,

00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:00.800
 you know,

00:43:01.120 --> 00:43:02.540
 99.9%

00:43:02.540 --> 00:43:04.020
 of church followers,

00:43:04.200 --> 00:43:04.420
 whatever,

00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:06.460
 they may know you,

00:43:06.460 --> 00:43:07.400
 they may not know you,

00:43:07.480 --> 00:43:08.240
 they may not understand

00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:09.040
 virtual reality.

00:43:09.300 --> 00:43:10.580
 The majority of people,

00:43:10.760 --> 00:43:12.160
 you're light years ahead

00:43:12.160 --> 00:43:13.540
 of everywhere else.

00:43:13.600 --> 00:43:13.740
 You're,

00:43:13.780 --> 00:43:15.100
 you're on that bleeding edge.

00:43:15.620 --> 00:43:16.960
 And what's interesting

00:43:16.960 --> 00:43:17.360
 is I,

00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:17.720
 I just,

00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:19.140
 I've been blessed

00:43:19.140 --> 00:43:20.500
 to be part of some conversations

00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:20.940
 with,

00:43:21.020 --> 00:43:22.020
 with you talking about

00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:23.420
 like the next,

00:43:23.540 --> 00:43:24.940
 what the bleeding edge guys do

00:43:24.940 --> 00:43:25.800
 when they even want to get

00:43:25.800 --> 00:43:26.860
 more bleeding edge.

00:43:26.860 --> 00:43:27.680
 And it's centered around

00:43:27.680 --> 00:43:29.700
 this idea of,

00:43:29.700 --> 00:43:30.640
 of MMO,

00:43:30.860 --> 00:43:32.780
 of creating churches

00:43:32.780 --> 00:43:33.720
 in,

00:43:34.060 --> 00:43:34.260
 in,

00:43:34.320 --> 00:43:35.140
 in video games,

00:43:35.140 --> 00:43:36.440
 in these guilds.

00:43:36.660 --> 00:43:36.980
 And so,

00:43:37.060 --> 00:43:37.220
 like,

00:43:37.260 --> 00:43:37.420
 it's,

00:43:37.420 --> 00:43:38.220
 it's exciting to me.

00:43:38.320 --> 00:43:38.580
 I've,

00:43:38.660 --> 00:43:40.000
 I've told the story.

00:43:40.280 --> 00:43:40.640
 I've,

00:43:40.640 --> 00:43:41.240
 I've been blessed

00:43:41.240 --> 00:43:42.400
 to speak on Digital Church

00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:44.240
 and I've teased this idea

00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:45.940
 out in front of people.

00:43:45.940 --> 00:43:47.600
 The idea of like doing church

00:43:47.600 --> 00:43:48.000
 in,

00:43:48.100 --> 00:43:49.160
 in,

00:43:49.300 --> 00:43:49.420
 well,

00:43:49.440 --> 00:43:49.700
 shoot,

00:43:49.760 --> 00:43:49.980
 why don't,

00:43:50.060 --> 00:43:50.240
 why don't,

00:43:50.300 --> 00:43:50.940
 why don't you talk

00:43:50.940 --> 00:43:51.720
 about it?

00:43:51.820 --> 00:43:51.920
 Like,

00:43:52.120 --> 00:43:52.920
 how does that go?

00:43:52.980 --> 00:43:53.900
 Do you get like glazed,

00:43:53.980 --> 00:43:54.520
 like look?

00:43:54.600 --> 00:43:54.720
 I mean,

00:43:54.720 --> 00:43:55.620
 that has to be like,

00:43:55.980 --> 00:43:56.080
 wait,

00:43:56.140 --> 00:43:56.780
 my wife was talking

00:43:56.780 --> 00:43:57.300
 about the other day.

00:43:57.320 --> 00:43:57.640
 She's like,

00:43:57.720 --> 00:43:58.580
 what are you doing

00:43:58.580 --> 00:43:59.380
 with MMO Church?

00:43:59.480 --> 00:44:00.060
 That's like,

00:44:00.140 --> 00:44:01.380
 you know what I mean?

00:44:01.440 --> 00:44:01.660
 Yeah.

00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:02.840
 Well,

00:44:02.920 --> 00:44:03.360
 and what's,

00:44:03.360 --> 00:44:04.000
 what's interesting

00:44:04.000 --> 00:44:04.240
 is,

00:44:04.300 --> 00:44:05.240
 is some of these games,

00:44:05.360 --> 00:44:06.140
 Final Fantasy XIV,

00:44:06.800 --> 00:44:07.780
 like it is one of these

00:44:07.780 --> 00:44:08.560
 types of games.

00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:08.820
 Now,

00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:09.940
 my understanding,

00:44:10.060 --> 00:44:10.520
 and once again,

00:44:10.600 --> 00:44:11.040
 this is,

00:44:11.500 --> 00:44:11.740
 I'm,

00:44:11.780 --> 00:44:13.420
 I'm not of this culture.

00:44:13.600 --> 00:44:15.400
 I'm supporting of this culture

00:44:15.400 --> 00:44:16.080
 and I'm screaming

00:44:16.080 --> 00:44:16.980
 from the rooftops.

00:44:17.140 --> 00:44:18.440
 We need to get churches

00:44:18.440 --> 00:44:19.680
 in these environments

00:44:19.680 --> 00:44:21.340
 because this is where people are.

00:44:21.660 --> 00:44:22.900
 So this is my understanding

00:44:22.900 --> 00:44:24.020
 of Final Fantasy XIV.

00:44:24.180 --> 00:44:25.140
 Correct me if I'm wrong

00:44:25.140 --> 00:44:25.700
 because I'm,

00:44:26.060 --> 00:44:27.040
 this is like Google

00:44:27.040 --> 00:44:28.380
 and Jeff working out here.

00:44:29.180 --> 00:44:30.300
 Final Fantasy XIV,

00:44:30.460 --> 00:44:31.980
 there's 22 million people

00:44:31.980 --> 00:44:33.200
 that are still actively

00:44:33.200 --> 00:44:34.300
 playing this game,

00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:35.380
 Final Fantasy XIV.

00:44:35.880 --> 00:44:36.180
 Now,

00:44:36.240 --> 00:44:37.100
 my understanding

00:44:37.100 --> 00:44:38.360
 is that

00:44:38.360 --> 00:44:40.120
 Final Fantasy XIV

00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:41.860
 is 10 years old?

00:44:42.640 --> 00:44:43.980
 It might be like seven.

00:44:44.060 --> 00:44:45.320
 I thought it was 2013

00:44:45.320 --> 00:44:46.100
 or maybe,

00:44:46.260 --> 00:44:46.660
 I don't know.

00:44:46.800 --> 00:44:47.260
 I'll have to look that up.

00:44:47.260 --> 00:44:47.440
 Anyway,

00:44:47.700 --> 00:44:48.400
 either way,

00:44:48.500 --> 00:44:49.640
 22 million people

00:44:49.640 --> 00:44:51.060
 are playing a seven-year-old

00:44:51.060 --> 00:44:51.840
 video game.

00:44:51.880 --> 00:44:52.340
 Yeah, yeah.

00:44:52.520 --> 00:44:53.260
 And it's,

00:44:53.300 --> 00:44:54.020
 and it's not because

00:44:54.020 --> 00:44:55.100
 they really want to beat up

00:44:55.100 --> 00:44:56.080
 on the big bad.

00:44:56.360 --> 00:44:57.860
 It's because that's where

00:44:57.860 --> 00:44:59.520
 community is.

00:44:59.700 --> 00:45:01.280
 That's where their guilds are.

00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:02.500
 That's where their friends are.

00:45:02.580 --> 00:45:03.460
 That's where they're doing

00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:03.720
 the,

00:45:03.720 --> 00:45:04.320
 the,

00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:05.320
 the farming,

00:45:05.440 --> 00:45:05.820
 the fishing,

00:45:05.900 --> 00:45:06.340
 the whatever.

00:45:06.500 --> 00:45:06.780
 That's,

00:45:06.840 --> 00:45:08.040
 that's where they found

00:45:08.040 --> 00:45:09.200
 community.

00:45:09.660 --> 00:45:10.580
 And so for me,

00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:11.660
 community is the key word

00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:11.820
 there,

00:45:11.900 --> 00:45:12.320
 community.

00:45:12.460 --> 00:45:12.680
 Yes.

00:45:12.680 --> 00:45:13.560
 It's definitely the key word.

00:45:13.960 --> 00:45:14.260
 And,

00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:14.760
 and it's,

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:15.140
 for me,

00:45:15.180 --> 00:45:15.840
 it's intriguing

00:45:15.840 --> 00:45:16.700
 because it's like,

00:45:16.820 --> 00:45:18.320
 that's where people

00:45:18.320 --> 00:45:19.460
 are finding community.

00:45:19.460 --> 00:45:20.700
 So how can we

00:45:20.700 --> 00:45:22.220
 encourage people?

00:45:22.340 --> 00:45:23.600
 How can we send people?

00:45:23.700 --> 00:45:25.200
 How can we disciple people

00:45:25.200 --> 00:45:27.840
 to go into Final Fantasy 14

00:45:27.840 --> 00:45:29.980
 to be the church?

00:45:30.060 --> 00:45:31.320
 Maybe not start the church.

00:45:31.460 --> 00:45:31.640
 Maybe,

00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:33.460
 maybe church looks different.

00:45:33.580 --> 00:45:34.380
 Maybe we're going back

00:45:34.380 --> 00:45:35.980
 to a biblical ecclesiology

00:45:35.980 --> 00:45:37.560
 more of what church is

00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:38.760
 as opposed to the U.S.

00:45:38.780 --> 00:45:40.320
 American model of 2020,

00:45:40.700 --> 00:45:41.340
 2019,

00:45:41.720 --> 00:45:42.180
 pre-COVID.

00:45:42.520 --> 00:45:43.320
 And we're doing

00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:44.120
 something different.

00:45:44.120 --> 00:45:45.460
 We're reimagining

00:45:45.460 --> 00:45:46.800
 what's happening

00:45:46.800 --> 00:45:49.200
 in Final Fantasy 14

00:45:49.200 --> 00:45:49.960
 and what a church

00:45:49.960 --> 00:45:50.720
 could look like

00:45:50.720 --> 00:45:51.580
 in that.

00:45:51.660 --> 00:45:51.760
 Now,

00:45:51.860 --> 00:45:52.140
 this is,

00:45:52.300 --> 00:45:52.680
 of course,

00:45:52.860 --> 00:45:54.020
 there's so many other games

00:45:54.020 --> 00:45:54.740
 that are MMO.

00:45:55.300 --> 00:45:56.240
 I'm not even sure

00:45:56.240 --> 00:45:57.320
 I know what MMO means.

00:45:57.420 --> 00:45:58.220
 I'll be honest.

00:45:58.280 --> 00:45:59.000
 But there's so many

00:45:59.000 --> 00:46:00.120
 within that,

00:46:00.120 --> 00:46:00.340
 that,

00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:01.320
 that genre

00:46:01.320 --> 00:46:02.480
 that it's like,

00:46:02.520 --> 00:46:03.320
 I could see

00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:04.780
 a whole generation

00:46:04.780 --> 00:46:05.500
 of Christians

00:46:05.500 --> 00:46:06.500
 coming about

00:46:06.500 --> 00:46:07.940
 out of

00:46:07.940 --> 00:46:09.820
 video games.

00:46:09.820 --> 00:46:10.320
 Like it's,

00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:11.340
 it's an unbelievable

00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:12.420
 untapped resource.

00:46:12.720 --> 00:46:13.160
 And,

00:46:13.180 --> 00:46:13.460
 and when,

00:46:13.560 --> 00:46:14.040
 and I'll answer

00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:14.740
 your question now.

00:46:14.860 --> 00:46:15.280
 When,

00:46:15.460 --> 00:46:16.960
 when I have this conversation,

00:46:17.680 --> 00:46:19.920
 50% of the people

00:46:19.920 --> 00:46:21.240
 love every word

00:46:21.240 --> 00:46:21.760
 that comes out

00:46:21.760 --> 00:46:22.320
 of my mouth

00:46:22.320 --> 00:46:23.520
 and 50%

00:46:23.520 --> 00:46:24.100
 of the people

00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.580
 are ready

00:46:24.580 --> 00:46:25.060
 to call me

00:46:25.060 --> 00:46:25.500
 a heretic

00:46:25.500 --> 00:46:26.240
 and,

00:46:26.240 --> 00:46:26.480
 and,

00:46:26.480 --> 00:46:26.780
 and,

00:46:26.860 --> 00:46:27.140
 you know,

00:46:27.180 --> 00:46:28.080
 light the stake.

00:46:28.640 --> 00:46:29.460
 And so like,

00:46:29.480 --> 00:46:31.300
 it's a very mixed bag.

00:46:31.640 --> 00:46:32.960
 I know when I get

00:46:32.960 --> 00:46:33.500
 to that part

00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:34.240
 of the conversation,

00:46:34.240 --> 00:46:34.960
 there's going to be

00:46:34.960 --> 00:46:36.760
 lots of thumbs up emojis

00:46:36.760 --> 00:46:38.340
 and lots of angry face emojis

00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:39.120
 because that's just,

00:46:39.380 --> 00:46:40.540
 that's just where,

00:46:40.620 --> 00:46:41.260
 where we are,

00:46:41.300 --> 00:46:41.760
 unfortunately,

00:46:41.760 --> 00:46:42.720
 because it's so

00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:43.880
 bleeding edge

00:46:43.880 --> 00:46:44.980
 and it's so unproven

00:46:44.980 --> 00:46:45.820
 and it challenges

00:46:45.820 --> 00:46:46.580
 so many things

00:46:46.580 --> 00:46:47.740
 within our church today

00:46:47.740 --> 00:46:48.580
 that,

00:46:48.660 --> 00:46:49.540
 that it's like for,

00:46:49.980 --> 00:46:50.660
 there's going to have

00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:52.160
 to be experimental groups

00:46:52.160 --> 00:46:52.760
 that are going to have

00:46:52.760 --> 00:46:53.920
 to celebrate stories

00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:54.420
 that are going to have

00:46:54.420 --> 00:46:55.540
 to show life change

00:46:55.540 --> 00:46:56.940
 to validate

00:46:56.940 --> 00:46:57.840
 that this is a,

00:46:57.960 --> 00:46:59.260
 this is an effective method

00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:00.580
 for others

00:47:00.580 --> 00:47:01.660
 to get excited about

00:47:01.660 --> 00:47:02.440
 and to jump into.

00:47:02.780 --> 00:47:02.900
 So,

00:47:03.000 --> 00:47:03.500
 I mean,

00:47:03.540 --> 00:47:03.760
 listen,

00:47:03.860 --> 00:47:04.000
 I,

00:47:04.000 --> 00:47:04.940
 I just spewed a lot.

00:47:05.060 --> 00:47:05.220
 Like,

00:47:05.300 --> 00:47:06.820
 does that line up with you?

00:47:06.860 --> 00:47:07.360
 Like when you,

00:47:07.440 --> 00:47:08.540
 when you guys think about

00:47:08.540 --> 00:47:10.160
 how to do church

00:47:10.160 --> 00:47:10.860
 and MMO

00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:11.140
 and,

00:47:11.200 --> 00:47:11.800
 and how to,

00:47:11.800 --> 00:47:12.320
 you know,

00:47:12.380 --> 00:47:12.900
 reach,

00:47:13.380 --> 00:47:13.800
 I mean,

00:47:13.800 --> 00:47:14.420
 somebody told me

00:47:14.420 --> 00:47:14.820
 the other day

00:47:14.820 --> 00:47:15.540
 that video gamers

00:47:15.540 --> 00:47:16.360
 is one of the largest

00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:17.400
 unreached people groups

00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:17.880
 in America.

00:47:18.040 --> 00:47:18.180
 I,

00:47:18.220 --> 00:47:19.200
 I never actually

00:47:19.200 --> 00:47:20.120
 thought of it that way,

00:47:20.220 --> 00:47:20.920
 but yeah,

00:47:20.980 --> 00:47:21.180
 I mean,

00:47:21.180 --> 00:47:21.420
 let's,

00:47:21.500 --> 00:47:22.540
 let's have that conversation.

00:47:22.740 --> 00:47:23.620
 What are you guys

00:47:23.620 --> 00:47:24.460
 thinking about this?

00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:25.460
 I was actually

00:47:25.460 --> 00:47:26.240
 just about to say

00:47:26.240 --> 00:47:26.600
 that's how I was,

00:47:26.700 --> 00:47:27.660
 I was going to start it.

00:47:28.080 --> 00:47:29.080
 As far as unreached

00:47:29.080 --> 00:47:29.620
 people groups,

00:47:29.760 --> 00:47:29.900
 we,

00:47:29.960 --> 00:47:30.820
 we think of unreached

00:47:30.820 --> 00:47:31.900
 people groups right now

00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:33.180
 in our ecclesiology

00:47:33.180 --> 00:47:34.820
 as geographic locations

00:47:34.820 --> 00:47:35.640
 and there's nothing wrong

00:47:35.640 --> 00:47:35.820
 with that,

00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:36.160
 by the way.

00:47:36.460 --> 00:47:37.520
 I'm just making an observation,

00:47:37.720 --> 00:47:37.880
 you know,

00:47:37.940 --> 00:47:38.260
 China,

00:47:38.760 --> 00:47:39.100
 Africa,

00:47:39.840 --> 00:47:40.080
 you know,

00:47:40.080 --> 00:47:40.760
 we need to send,

00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:41.400
 you know,

00:47:41.440 --> 00:47:42.200
 people to Estonia,

00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:42.580
 you know,

00:47:42.600 --> 00:47:43.080
 so that's,

00:47:43.160 --> 00:47:43.680
 that's a thing

00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:44.360
 and that's important.

00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:46.420
 But what we're seeing,

00:47:46.500 --> 00:47:47.060
 what's evolving

00:47:47.060 --> 00:47:47.740
 and this metaverse

00:47:47.740 --> 00:47:48.860
 has quietly been growing

00:47:48.860 --> 00:47:49.980
 over the past 20 years

00:47:49.980 --> 00:47:51.860
 is now that the greatest

00:47:51.860 --> 00:47:52.880
 unreached people groups

00:47:52.880 --> 00:47:53.600
 are now going to be

00:47:53.600 --> 00:47:54.400
 in digital,

00:47:54.840 --> 00:47:55.380
 virtual,

00:47:55.700 --> 00:47:56.660
 virtual reality,

00:47:57.100 --> 00:47:57.460
 cities,

00:47:57.860 --> 00:47:58.600
 metaverses.

00:47:59.000 --> 00:48:00.440
 These are more than just games.

00:48:01.080 --> 00:48:02.720
 These are communities

00:48:02.720 --> 00:48:04.240
 of people interacting

00:48:04.240 --> 00:48:05.600
 with each other

00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:06.680
 at high levels,

00:48:06.840 --> 00:48:07.800
 deep interactions.

00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:09.580
 And so what I think

00:48:09.580 --> 00:48:10.140
 you're going to see

00:48:10.140 --> 00:48:11.060
 or I hope the church

00:48:11.060 --> 00:48:11.820
 evolves into

00:48:11.820 --> 00:48:12.700
 is this understanding

00:48:12.700 --> 00:48:13.700
 that it's not just

00:48:13.700 --> 00:48:14.680
 geographically

00:48:14.680 --> 00:48:16.600
 or the largest

00:48:16.600 --> 00:48:17.480
 unreached people groups

00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:18.540
 but it's also digital.

00:48:18.900 --> 00:48:19.940
 It's also virtual reality.

00:48:20.080 --> 00:48:21.280
 It's also things like

00:48:21.280 --> 00:48:23.020
 Final Fantasy 14

00:48:23.020 --> 00:48:24.020
 or Rust

00:48:24.020 --> 00:48:25.960
 or Black Desert Online.

00:48:26.460 --> 00:48:27.540
 And so we're working

00:48:27.540 --> 00:48:28.120
 on initiative.

00:48:28.320 --> 00:48:28.800
 It's not something

00:48:28.800 --> 00:48:29.240
 that we're like

00:48:29.240 --> 00:48:29.900
 we're necessarily

00:48:29.900 --> 00:48:30.900
 officially announcing

00:48:30.900 --> 00:48:31.540
 but it's kind of

00:48:31.540 --> 00:48:32.300
 quietly working on

00:48:32.300 --> 00:48:32.920
 behind the scenes

00:48:32.920 --> 00:48:34.180
 called MMO Church.

00:48:34.500 --> 00:48:35.320
 And so VR Church

00:48:35.320 --> 00:48:36.180
 is planting

00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:37.660
 what's called MMO Church

00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.740
 and we're exploring

00:48:38.740 --> 00:48:40.260
 or not just exploring,

00:48:40.360 --> 00:48:40.920
 we're continuing

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:42.400
 our church planning vision

00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:43.320
 to plant

00:48:43.320 --> 00:48:45.380
 loving spiritual communities

00:48:45.380 --> 00:48:46.440
 across the metaverse

00:48:46.440 --> 00:48:47.480
 which includes things

00:48:47.480 --> 00:48:48.580
 like Final Fantasy

00:48:48.580 --> 00:48:51.320
 and World of Warcraft.

00:48:51.880 --> 00:48:52.500
 And so for people

00:48:52.500 --> 00:48:53.480
 that have never played

00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:53.960
 an MMO,

00:48:54.080 --> 00:48:54.660
 I mean that's a whole

00:48:54.660 --> 00:48:55.940
 other like podcast

00:48:55.940 --> 00:48:57.540
 just to talk MMOs

00:48:57.540 --> 00:48:58.400
 because there's such

00:48:58.400 --> 00:48:59.820
 a uniqueness to them.

00:49:00.060 --> 00:49:01.200
 It's not just like

00:49:01.200 --> 00:49:01.860
 Call of Duty,

00:49:01.980 --> 00:49:03.000
 you come in for a quick match,

00:49:03.080 --> 00:49:04.320
 you yell at a couple people

00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:06.680
 for about five,

00:49:06.740 --> 00:49:07.120
 ten minutes

00:49:07.120 --> 00:49:07.580
 or Fortnite,

00:49:08.140 --> 00:49:08.840
 you just come in

00:49:08.840 --> 00:49:10.340
 for a five or ten minute match.

00:49:10.420 --> 00:49:11.620
 I mean you journey

00:49:11.620 --> 00:49:13.080
 with these individuals

00:49:13.080 --> 00:49:14.700
 for hours,

00:49:15.020 --> 00:49:15.860
 for months,

00:49:16.100 --> 00:49:17.040
 you join a guild,

00:49:17.480 --> 00:49:19.620
 it's very compelling

00:49:19.620 --> 00:49:20.520
 and very interesting.

00:49:21.620 --> 00:49:21.780
 You know,

00:49:22.020 --> 00:49:23.060
 deep relationships

00:49:23.060 --> 00:49:23.860
 have been formed.

00:49:24.220 --> 00:49:25.420
 It is not unusual

00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:26.420
 to hear marriages

00:49:26.420 --> 00:49:27.920
 coming from MMOs,

00:49:28.220 --> 00:49:29.260
 people that have played together,

00:49:29.360 --> 00:49:29.860
 met in real life

00:49:29.860 --> 00:49:30.300
 and got married,

00:49:30.340 --> 00:49:31.140
 that is not unusual

00:49:31.140 --> 00:49:32.040
 and you wouldn't see that

00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:32.560
 in like a Fortnite

00:49:32.560 --> 00:49:33.880
 or maybe a Call of Duty

00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:35.240
 but you see these

00:49:35.240 --> 00:49:35.980
 deep connections

00:49:35.980 --> 00:49:36.600
 being made

00:49:36.600 --> 00:49:38.840
 in these different MMOs.

00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:41.320
 So we have some theories,

00:49:41.460 --> 00:49:42.200
 we have some vision

00:49:42.200 --> 00:49:43.160
 and that's why VR Church

00:49:43.160 --> 00:49:44.580
 is thinking MMO Church

00:49:44.580 --> 00:49:45.940
 and we don't have

00:49:45.940 --> 00:49:47.100
 a ton to say about it

00:49:47.100 --> 00:49:48.900
 but we are moving forward

00:49:48.900 --> 00:49:49.560
 with that vision

00:49:49.560 --> 00:49:50.920
 and as a matter of fact,

00:49:50.960 --> 00:49:51.360
 I've been talking

00:49:51.360 --> 00:49:51.900
 to the church,

00:49:52.160 --> 00:49:53.600
 VR Church today

00:49:53.600 --> 00:49:54.960
 and it's actually

00:49:54.960 --> 00:49:55.340
 I've been talking

00:49:55.340 --> 00:49:55.940
 about them for months

00:49:55.940 --> 00:49:56.860
 but it's been more official

00:49:56.860 --> 00:49:58.520
 in the past day or so

00:49:58.520 --> 00:49:59.580
 about how we're going

00:49:59.580 --> 00:50:00.040
 to move forward

00:50:00.040 --> 00:50:01.000
 with MMO Church

00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:01.800
 and inviting them

00:50:01.800 --> 00:50:02.600
 to come along

00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:03.080
 in this journey.

00:50:03.200 --> 00:50:03.740
 So that's kind of

00:50:03.740 --> 00:50:04.220
 where we're at

00:50:04.220 --> 00:50:05.300
 if you think of software

00:50:05.300 --> 00:50:06.900
 development as like alpha

00:50:06.900 --> 00:50:08.000
 where it's not ready

00:50:08.000 --> 00:50:08.920
 for the public at all

00:50:08.920 --> 00:50:09.380
 or in beta

00:50:09.380 --> 00:50:10.080
 it's getting there

00:50:10.080 --> 00:50:10.580
 then gold.

00:50:11.020 --> 00:50:12.120
 I would say MMO Church

00:50:12.120 --> 00:50:13.300
 is kind of an alpha

00:50:13.300 --> 00:50:13.700
 right now.

00:50:13.840 --> 00:50:15.740
 We're experimenting

00:50:15.740 --> 00:50:16.720
 and exploring

00:50:16.720 --> 00:50:18.420
 we're inviting people

00:50:18.420 --> 00:50:19.000
 to come along

00:50:19.000 --> 00:50:19.440
 in the journey

00:50:19.440 --> 00:50:20.000
 to explore

00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:20.420
 and experiment

00:50:20.420 --> 00:50:20.940
 with us

00:50:20.940 --> 00:50:22.060
 and then yeah

00:50:22.060 --> 00:50:22.700
 I think we'll just

00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:23.560
 we're going to be

00:50:23.560 --> 00:50:24.060
 on this journey

00:50:24.060 --> 00:50:24.900
 for months

00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:25.700
 and maybe even years

00:50:25.700 --> 00:50:26.620
 and see how it evolves

00:50:26.620 --> 00:50:27.500
 we're going to let

00:50:27.500 --> 00:50:28.700
 the platform shape us

00:50:28.700 --> 00:50:30.420
 and yeah

00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:30.960
 we're just going to be

00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:31.480
 looking forward

00:50:31.480 --> 00:50:32.040
 for opportunities

00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:32.900
 and the little

00:50:32.900 --> 00:50:33.660
 that we've done

00:50:33.660 --> 00:50:35.120
 and it's like

00:50:35.120 --> 00:50:36.080
 under 10 hours

00:50:36.080 --> 00:50:36.900
 has been interesting

00:50:36.900 --> 00:50:37.900
 so far

00:50:37.900 --> 00:50:39.720
 the couple of relationships

00:50:39.720 --> 00:50:40.740
 that we've already made

00:50:40.740 --> 00:50:41.940
 the vision

00:50:41.940 --> 00:50:42.700
 that we're going to have

00:50:42.700 --> 00:50:43.760
 it's really interesting

00:50:43.760 --> 00:50:44.620
 I didn't think

00:50:44.620 --> 00:50:47.020
 starting right off the bat

00:50:47.020 --> 00:50:48.160
 maybe even less than 10 hours

00:50:48.160 --> 00:50:48.820
 maybe like 5 hours

00:50:48.820 --> 00:50:50.380
 that we would see

00:50:50.380 --> 00:50:51.680
 some connections already

00:50:51.680 --> 00:50:52.640
 we've already seen that

00:50:52.640 --> 00:50:53.320
 that surprised me

00:50:53.320 --> 00:50:54.560
 within my first day

00:50:54.560 --> 00:50:55.520
 of kind of experimenting

00:50:55.520 --> 00:50:56.400
 with MMO Church

00:50:56.400 --> 00:50:56.780
 and so

00:50:56.780 --> 00:50:57.980
 yeah we're working

00:50:57.980 --> 00:50:58.640
 on a launch team

00:50:58.640 --> 00:50:59.100
 and we're doing

00:50:59.100 --> 00:50:59.960
 some other elements

00:50:59.960 --> 00:51:01.060
 and so yeah

00:51:01.060 --> 00:51:01.940
 it's going to be fun

00:51:01.940 --> 00:51:02.700
 we're really looking forward

00:51:02.700 --> 00:51:03.360
 to it

00:51:03.360 --> 00:51:05.140
 and I told the church

00:51:05.140 --> 00:51:05.360
 I was like

00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:06.220
 I don't have answers for you

00:51:06.220 --> 00:51:06.540
 you probably have

00:51:06.540 --> 00:51:07.160
 a ton of questions

00:51:07.160 --> 00:51:07.820
 I was like

00:51:07.820 --> 00:51:08.380
 I don't got answers

00:51:08.380 --> 00:51:08.740
 you know

00:51:08.740 --> 00:51:09.560
 we'll get those

00:51:09.560 --> 00:51:10.320
 over the months and years

00:51:10.320 --> 00:51:11.700
 but yeah

00:51:11.700 --> 00:51:12.560
 we think we're

00:51:12.560 --> 00:51:13.280
 it's going to be

00:51:13.280 --> 00:51:13.920
 something powerful

00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:14.360
 and beautiful

00:51:14.360 --> 00:51:14.980
 and we're really

00:51:14.980 --> 00:51:15.880
 looking forward to it

00:51:15.880 --> 00:51:16.360
 yeah

00:51:16.360 --> 00:51:17.940
 it'll be interesting

00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:18.820
 just even

00:51:18.820 --> 00:51:19.960
 on the outside

00:51:19.960 --> 00:51:20.500
 once again

00:51:20.500 --> 00:51:21.660
 being one of the

00:51:21.660 --> 00:51:22.480
 bleeding edge guys

00:51:22.480 --> 00:51:23.660
 is that

00:51:23.660 --> 00:51:24.700
 is that a full

00:51:24.700 --> 00:51:25.880
 ecclesiology

00:51:25.880 --> 00:51:27.600
 or a minimal ecclesiology

00:51:27.600 --> 00:51:28.220
 of a church

00:51:28.220 --> 00:51:29.080
 or is it a

00:51:29.080 --> 00:51:30.460
 a mission field

00:51:30.460 --> 00:51:31.740
 that we're going in

00:51:31.740 --> 00:51:32.680
 and sending missionaries

00:51:32.680 --> 00:51:33.460
 and trying to feed

00:51:33.460 --> 00:51:34.400
 into something else

00:51:34.400 --> 00:51:35.280
 and it's

00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:36.100
 and it really

00:51:36.100 --> 00:51:36.860
 I guess it maybe

00:51:36.860 --> 00:51:37.660
 would depend upon

00:51:37.660 --> 00:51:38.420
 even the video game

00:51:38.420 --> 00:51:39.020
 and the platform

00:51:39.020 --> 00:51:39.680
 or what's capable

00:51:39.680 --> 00:51:40.740
 and I think

00:51:40.740 --> 00:51:41.100
 there may be

00:51:41.100 --> 00:51:42.020
 contextualization

00:51:42.020 --> 00:51:42.860
 based on

00:51:42.860 --> 00:51:44.880
 the game environment

00:51:44.880 --> 00:51:45.320
 itself

00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:46.280
 and how that operates

00:51:46.280 --> 00:51:47.160
 and there's

00:51:47.160 --> 00:51:47.820
 real like

00:51:47.820 --> 00:51:48.660
 it's funny

00:51:48.660 --> 00:51:49.340
 like even before

00:51:49.340 --> 00:51:50.080
 the podcast

00:51:50.080 --> 00:51:50.900
 I told DJ

00:51:50.900 --> 00:51:51.180
 I was like

00:51:51.180 --> 00:51:51.820
 man I just want to be

00:51:51.820 --> 00:51:52.640
 the fly on the wall

00:51:52.640 --> 00:51:54.100
 right now

00:51:54.100 --> 00:51:54.660
 and just

00:51:54.660 --> 00:51:55.640
 just watch

00:51:55.640 --> 00:51:56.840
 how this

00:51:56.840 --> 00:51:57.760
 this develops

00:51:57.760 --> 00:51:58.300
 and

00:51:58.300 --> 00:51:59.080
 and even

00:51:59.080 --> 00:51:59.760
 how we're

00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:00.860
 empowering people

00:52:00.860 --> 00:52:01.400
 and how we're

00:52:01.400 --> 00:52:02.280
 equipping people

00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:03.320
 and sending them out

00:52:03.320 --> 00:52:04.060
 how we're

00:52:04.060 --> 00:52:05.060
 how we're training

00:52:05.060 --> 00:52:06.020
 people

00:52:06.020 --> 00:52:06.980
 what type of person

00:52:06.980 --> 00:52:08.200
 is effective

00:52:08.200 --> 00:52:09.480
 in these video games

00:52:09.480 --> 00:52:09.720
 to

00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:11.460
 in these MMO games

00:52:11.460 --> 00:52:11.700
 to

00:52:11.700 --> 00:52:13.360
 to connect with people

00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.980
 what those

00:52:13.980 --> 00:52:15.640
 relationships look like

00:52:15.640 --> 00:52:16.460
 and how

00:52:16.460 --> 00:52:18.340
 Final Fantasy 14

00:52:18.340 --> 00:52:19.640
 can bring glory

00:52:19.640 --> 00:52:20.200
 to God

00:52:20.200 --> 00:52:20.680
 like that

00:52:20.680 --> 00:52:21.340
 to me

00:52:21.340 --> 00:52:21.840
 it's

00:52:21.840 --> 00:52:22.160
 it's

00:52:22.160 --> 00:52:22.440
 it's

00:52:22.440 --> 00:52:22.800
 it's

00:52:22.800 --> 00:52:22.820
 it's

00:52:22.820 --> 00:52:23.640
 it's

00:52:23.640 --> 00:52:24.400
 one of the exciting

00:52:24.400 --> 00:52:24.940
 things for me

00:52:24.940 --> 00:52:25.640
 to come out

00:52:25.640 --> 00:52:26.680
 of this COVID season

00:52:26.680 --> 00:52:27.040
 I don't

00:52:27.040 --> 00:52:27.600
 I don't

00:52:27.600 --> 00:52:28.120
 once again

00:52:28.120 --> 00:52:28.580
 I don't know

00:52:28.580 --> 00:52:29.160
 that we would have

00:52:29.160 --> 00:52:29.640
 gotten there

00:52:29.640 --> 00:52:30.260
 I think we would have

00:52:30.260 --> 00:52:30.900
 got there eventually

00:52:30.900 --> 00:52:32.500
 but I don't think

00:52:32.500 --> 00:52:33.560
 like this conversation

00:52:33.560 --> 00:52:34.200
 would have had

00:52:34.200 --> 00:52:34.960
 near the relevance

00:52:34.960 --> 00:52:35.780
 if we were

00:52:35.780 --> 00:52:36.520
 that's correct

00:52:36.520 --> 00:52:37.120
 that's correct

00:52:37.120 --> 00:52:38.380
 if not for COVID

00:52:38.380 --> 00:52:39.740
 COVID just accelerated

00:52:39.740 --> 00:52:40.560
 that timeline

00:52:40.560 --> 00:52:42.160
 so fast

00:52:42.160 --> 00:52:43.240
 the old school

00:52:43.240 --> 00:52:44.340
 pressing fast forward

00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:45.500
 on the old school

00:52:45.500 --> 00:52:45.960
 VCR

00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:47.120
 like it just got us

00:52:47.120 --> 00:52:47.640
 there quickly

00:52:47.640 --> 00:52:48.420
 where now we can

00:52:48.420 --> 00:52:49.080
 you know

00:52:49.080 --> 00:52:50.100
 really have some fun

00:52:50.100 --> 00:52:51.040
 here talking about

00:52:51.040 --> 00:52:52.400
 how we can do

00:52:52.400 --> 00:52:53.300
 church in some

00:52:53.300 --> 00:52:54.200
 really unique spaces

00:52:54.200 --> 00:52:55.440
 so by the way

00:52:55.440 --> 00:52:56.500
 I just fact checked

00:52:56.500 --> 00:52:57.020
 myself

00:52:57.020 --> 00:52:58.000
 Google

00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:58.720
 Final Fantasy

00:52:58.720 --> 00:52:59.360
 start date

00:52:59.360 --> 00:53:00.440
 September 30th

00:53:00.440 --> 00:53:01.580
 2010

00:53:01.580 --> 00:53:02.780
 2010

00:53:02.780 --> 00:53:04.780
 2010 man

00:53:04.780 --> 00:53:05.440
 so that's

00:53:05.440 --> 00:53:05.960
 I think it went

00:53:05.960 --> 00:53:07.100
 through like a

00:53:07.100 --> 00:53:08.460
 I think it went

00:53:08.460 --> 00:53:09.220
 down for a bit

00:53:09.220 --> 00:53:09.540
 to read

00:53:09.540 --> 00:53:10.100
 because it came out

00:53:10.100 --> 00:53:10.400
 rough

00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:11.640
 and then I think

00:53:11.640 --> 00:53:12.380
 it came back

00:53:12.380 --> 00:53:13.360
 but yeah

00:53:13.360 --> 00:53:14.360
 that sounds right

00:53:14.360 --> 00:53:14.940
 2010

00:53:14.940 --> 00:53:16.640
 the release

00:53:16.640 --> 00:53:17.460
 yeah so yeah

00:53:17.460 --> 00:53:18.580
 May 2013

00:53:18.580 --> 00:53:19.520
 was the second

00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:20.140
 release date

00:53:20.140 --> 00:53:21.340
 I'm seeing that here

00:53:21.340 --> 00:53:22.660
 thank you Wikipedia

00:53:22.660 --> 00:53:24.060
 hopefully it's

00:53:24.060 --> 00:53:24.960
 accurate on there

00:53:24.960 --> 00:53:26.420
 man well

00:53:26.420 --> 00:53:26.900
 I just want to

00:53:26.900 --> 00:53:27.240
 say if you

00:53:27.240 --> 00:53:27.800
 haven't watched

00:53:27.800 --> 00:53:28.520
 this on

00:53:28.520 --> 00:53:29.580
 on YouTube

00:53:29.580 --> 00:53:30.480
 I'm literally

00:53:30.480 --> 00:53:32.320
 seeing a DJ

00:53:32.320 --> 00:53:33.220
 in front of a

00:53:33.220 --> 00:53:33.960
 virtual backdrop

00:53:33.960 --> 00:53:35.080
 with Stanley from

00:53:35.080 --> 00:53:35.720
 the office

00:53:35.720 --> 00:53:36.960
 working in the

00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:37.380
 background

00:53:37.380 --> 00:53:39.460
 exactly

00:53:39.460 --> 00:53:40.320
 it's like one

00:53:40.320 --> 00:53:40.600
 of the one

00:53:40.600 --> 00:53:41.080
 of the scenes

00:53:41.080 --> 00:53:41.440
 out of the

00:53:41.440 --> 00:53:41.700
 office

00:53:41.700 --> 00:53:42.200
 so it's been

00:53:42.200 --> 00:53:42.500
 nice

00:53:42.500 --> 00:53:43.080
 Stanley's been

00:53:43.080 --> 00:53:43.540
 like working

00:53:43.540 --> 00:53:44.360
 really hard

00:53:44.360 --> 00:53:45.700
 in video

00:53:45.700 --> 00:53:46.760
 looking up

00:53:46.760 --> 00:53:47.400
 every once in a

00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:47.900
 while doing

00:53:47.900 --> 00:53:48.420
 that's doing

00:53:48.420 --> 00:53:49.120
 the sales job

00:53:49.120 --> 00:53:49.520
 man

00:53:49.520 --> 00:53:51.220
 so so good

00:53:51.220 --> 00:53:51.700
 so good

00:53:51.700 --> 00:53:51.920
 man

00:53:51.920 --> 00:53:52.680
 hey well

00:53:52.680 --> 00:53:53.700
 thanks for

00:53:53.700 --> 00:53:54.240
 jumping on

00:53:54.240 --> 00:53:55.100
 the podcast

00:53:55.100 --> 00:53:55.300
 here

00:53:55.300 --> 00:53:56.340
 this has been

00:53:56.340 --> 00:53:56.880
 a great

00:53:56.880 --> 00:53:57.340
 conversation

00:53:57.340 --> 00:53:58.020
 covered a lot

00:53:58.020 --> 00:53:58.400
 a lot of

00:53:58.400 --> 00:53:58.760
 territory

00:53:58.760 --> 00:53:59.020
 man

00:53:59.020 --> 00:53:59.680
 I'm always

00:53:59.680 --> 00:54:00.220
 excited

00:54:00.220 --> 00:54:01.060
 whenever I get

00:54:01.060 --> 00:54:01.580
 to hang out

00:54:01.580 --> 00:54:02.260
 with you

00:54:02.260 --> 00:54:03.480
 and learn

00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:04.620
 more about

00:54:04.620 --> 00:54:05.540
 what you're

00:54:05.540 --> 00:54:06.120
 discovering

00:54:06.120 --> 00:54:06.780
 on that

00:54:06.780 --> 00:54:07.860
 that bleeding

00:54:07.860 --> 00:54:08.400
 edge

00:54:08.400 --> 00:54:09.240
 diving into

00:54:09.240 --> 00:54:09.860
 this idea

00:54:09.860 --> 00:54:10.820
 of virtual

00:54:10.820 --> 00:54:11.300
 reality

00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:11.940
 it's funny

00:54:11.940 --> 00:54:12.220
 it's not

00:54:12.220 --> 00:54:12.480
 bleeding

00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:12.980
 maybe it's not

00:54:12.980 --> 00:54:13.540
 bleeding edge

00:54:13.540 --> 00:54:14.080
 for the rest

00:54:14.080 --> 00:54:14.340
 of the world

00:54:14.340 --> 00:54:14.700
 but it's

00:54:14.700 --> 00:54:15.260
 it's bleeding

00:54:15.260 --> 00:54:15.580
 edge for

00:54:15.580 --> 00:54:16.060
 the church

00:54:16.060 --> 00:54:16.960
 and what

00:54:16.960 --> 00:54:17.420
 this looks

00:54:17.420 --> 00:54:17.720
 like

00:54:17.720 --> 00:54:18.080
 and so

00:54:18.080 --> 00:54:18.960
 thanks for

00:54:18.960 --> 00:54:19.720
 challenging

00:54:19.720 --> 00:54:20.240
 for

00:54:20.240 --> 00:54:21.460
 for being

00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:21.740
 out

00:54:21.740 --> 00:54:22.020
 there

00:54:22.020 --> 00:54:22.420
 for

00:54:22.420 --> 00:54:23.040
 while

00:54:23.040 --> 00:54:23.420
 half

00:54:23.420 --> 00:54:23.680
 the

00:54:23.680 --> 00:54:24.200
 you know

00:54:24.200 --> 00:54:24.680
 room

00:54:24.680 --> 00:54:25.020
 thinks

00:54:25.020 --> 00:54:25.200
 you're

00:54:25.200 --> 00:54:25.720
 crazy

00:54:25.720 --> 00:54:26.920
 still

00:54:26.920 --> 00:54:27.260
 doing

00:54:27.260 --> 00:54:27.460
 what

00:54:27.460 --> 00:54:27.620
 you're

00:54:27.620 --> 00:54:28.000
 doing

00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:28.320
 and

00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:29.600
 we've

00:54:29.600 --> 00:54:29.740
 had

00:54:29.740 --> 00:54:29.940
 we've

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:30.320
 had plenty

00:54:30.320 --> 00:54:30.600
 of those

00:54:30.600 --> 00:54:31.180
 conversations

00:54:31.180 --> 00:54:31.840
 as well

00:54:31.840 --> 00:54:32.460
 so hey

00:54:32.460 --> 00:54:33.100
 as we're

00:54:33.100 --> 00:54:33.620
 landing the

00:54:33.620 --> 00:54:34.060
 plane man

00:54:34.060 --> 00:54:34.580
 any closing

00:54:34.580 --> 00:54:34.880
 thoughts

00:54:34.880 --> 00:54:35.260
 on your

00:54:35.260 --> 00:54:35.500
 side

00:54:35.500 --> 00:54:36.180
 no no

00:54:36.180 --> 00:54:36.660
 I don't

00:54:36.660 --> 00:54:37.020
 I have

00:54:37.020 --> 00:54:37.620
 one of my

00:54:37.620 --> 00:54:37.880
 elders

00:54:37.880 --> 00:54:38.260
 telling me

00:54:38.260 --> 00:54:38.560
 to get

00:54:38.560 --> 00:54:38.740
 into

00:54:38.740 --> 00:54:38.980
 final

00:54:38.980 --> 00:54:39.240
 fantasy

00:54:39.240 --> 00:54:39.600
 right now

00:54:39.600 --> 00:54:39.820
 he's

00:54:39.820 --> 00:54:40.040
 waiting

00:54:40.040 --> 00:54:40.460
 for me

00:54:40.460 --> 00:54:40.980
 so I'm

00:54:40.980 --> 00:54:41.120
 gonna

00:54:41.120 --> 00:54:42.380
 go do

00:54:42.380 --> 00:54:42.560
 some

00:54:42.560 --> 00:54:42.800
 church

00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:43.020
 stuff

00:54:43.020 --> 00:54:43.520
 over there

00:54:43.520 --> 00:54:44.140
 in that

00:54:44.140 --> 00:54:44.400
 world

00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:44.680
 so

00:54:44.680 --> 00:54:45.540
 yeah

00:54:45.540 --> 00:54:46.260
 that's

00:54:46.260 --> 00:54:46.580
 about it

00:54:46.580 --> 00:54:47.280
 how many

00:54:47.280 --> 00:54:47.780
 other churches

00:54:47.780 --> 00:54:48.140
 out there

00:54:48.140 --> 00:54:48.640
 have an elder

00:54:48.640 --> 00:54:49.320
 saying hey

00:54:49.320 --> 00:54:49.680
 go play

00:54:49.680 --> 00:54:50.140
 final fantasy

00:54:50.140 --> 00:54:50.660
 yeah I'm

00:54:50.660 --> 00:54:50.860
 waiting

00:54:50.860 --> 00:54:51.240
 let's get

00:54:51.240 --> 00:54:51.480
 church

00:54:51.480 --> 00:54:51.760
 started

00:54:51.760 --> 00:54:52.260
 on the

00:54:52.260 --> 00:54:52.620
 clock

00:54:52.620 --> 00:54:52.920
 crack

00:54:52.920 --> 00:54:53.160
 crack

00:54:53.160 --> 00:54:53.500
 the whip

00:54:53.500 --> 00:54:53.760
 let's

00:54:53.760 --> 00:54:54.080
 let's go

00:54:54.080 --> 00:54:54.540
 play games

00:54:54.540 --> 00:54:54.820
 online

00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:55.080
 that's

00:54:55.080 --> 00:54:55.360
 awesome

00:54:55.360 --> 00:54:55.960
 hey

00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:56.920
 for DJ

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 this is

00:54:57.340 --> 00:54:57.520
 Jeff

00:54:57.520 --> 00:54:57.760
 at the

00:54:57.760 --> 00:54:57.980
 church

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 digital

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 and

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 stadium

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 church