WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.940 Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I, Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with you, churches that are out there. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:23.360 One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering through Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:31.780 We want to help you, we want to help your church learn to thrive, grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:38.320 We've seen about 200 churches go through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it. 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.620 Culture is changing within these churches. 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:42.640 They're understanding what it is to thrive. 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:52.500 They're understanding how to grow people, how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season. 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:58.460 And they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. 00:00:58.620 --> 00:01:01.880 There's no secret sauce to doing a digital strategy. 00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:04.940 There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.960 There's no secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:10.760 It takes work. 00:01:10.820 --> 00:01:11.660 I'm not going to lie. 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:16.680 But through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities, we connect you with churches. 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:17.940 We give you some content. 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:31.740 We coach you along the way to help you make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply your church along the way. 00:01:31.940 --> 00:01:34.080 This is a great opportunity for your church. 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:35.500 We would love to have you be a part of it. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:40.920 For more information, check out stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:41.580 --> 00:01:44.280 stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:47.820 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:48.500 All right. 00:01:48.580 --> 00:01:49.320 Hey, that's it. 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:51.240 We're going to get you back to that episode right now. 00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:52.200 All right. 00:01:52.240 --> 00:01:53.920 Well, it's without a question. 00:01:54.080 --> 00:01:56.640 Church has evolved over the past year, right? 00:01:56.680 --> 00:01:59.160 Like, that's – we don't need to discuss that. 00:01:59.260 --> 00:02:06.820 From where we were pre-COVID, February 2020, to where we are today, we, the church, have a whole other set of problems. 00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:12.380 We've got a whole other set of challenges and a whole other opportunity to overcome that. 00:02:12.380 --> 00:02:25.880 And that's really what we talk about here in this episode here with the Church Digital Podcast, how the church has evolved, how the church has grown, and what are the opportunities that we should be looking forward to on the road ahead. 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:30.460 So for the conversation, we're bringing in a regular here with the Church Digital Podcast. 00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:32.260 We're bringing in Jay Crandon. 00:02:32.400 --> 00:02:40.160 Jay is the online pastor with Saddleback Church, just a good friend and support in this season. 00:02:40.160 --> 00:02:41.920 Check him out at jaycrandon.com. 00:02:42.000 --> 00:02:42.800 Link in the show notes. 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:47.960 But Jay's coming in, and we're talking a lot about this idea of how the church has evolved. 00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:49.780 What does it look like in kids? 00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:50.820 What does it look like in students? 00:02:51.080 --> 00:02:55.660 How do we do adult ministry different today, maybe, than what we did before? 00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:58.200 How do you lead in an environment like this? 00:02:58.260 --> 00:03:10.460 How do you handle things like big data and just so many conversations that are open, so many ideas we're just beginning to scratch the surface on as we're looking at how the church is evolving. 00:03:10.460 --> 00:03:14.480 Don't play the ecclesiology card. 00:03:14.900 --> 00:03:15.440 It's solid. 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.020 How it's evolving, fidgetally, working physical and digital together. 00:03:21.020 --> 00:03:36.680 So we're bringing in Jay Crandon, like I said, Saddleback, Ray DeArmas, digital pastor, Christ Fellowship Miami, and myself, Jeff, with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planting, in a conversation that I'm calling the constant evolution of an online church. 00:03:37.100 --> 00:03:37.620 Okay, everybody. 00:03:37.900 --> 00:03:38.340 Here you go. 00:03:38.900 --> 00:03:43.300 Well, hey, you know, every time we get together, we never actually talk about the thing we're going to talk about. 00:03:43.300 --> 00:03:51.260 So, Lakers, Heat, didn't go real well for the Miami fans here in Orlando. 00:03:51.980 --> 00:03:52.860 It was brutal. 00:03:53.060 --> 00:03:54.100 So, in the bubble. 00:03:54.980 --> 00:03:57.500 So, what are we thinking in this upcoming season? 00:03:57.680 --> 00:03:58.720 Who's bragging? 00:03:58.980 --> 00:04:00.060 Who's holding back? 00:04:00.160 --> 00:04:00.800 Where are we? 00:04:01.200 --> 00:04:05.140 Ironically, Ray is literally wearing a Miami Heat shirt right now. 00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:10.840 In the most tumultuous of times as a Heat fan, too, because we're, like, on a terrible losing streak. 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:19.740 But I actually, and I'm making the bold prediction right now, I actually think that Jay Crandon's Lakers go back to back. 00:04:20.180 --> 00:04:23.580 I don't think that the Nets pull it off. 00:04:24.000 --> 00:04:25.600 I don't think that they make it happen. 00:04:25.700 --> 00:04:31.400 I'm waiting for Kyrie to make that whole team implode with some kind of crazy theory about the world being flat or something. 00:04:31.880 --> 00:04:34.300 But I'm waiting for that to implode. 00:04:34.680 --> 00:04:35.660 Crandon, what say to you? 00:04:36.940 --> 00:04:37.240 Yeah. 00:04:37.440 --> 00:04:42.220 I mean, we're, we're, when you're, I honestly care less about this year. 00:04:42.280 --> 00:04:42.660 I don't know. 00:04:42.780 --> 00:04:43.420 We already won. 00:04:43.500 --> 00:04:44.620 So, I'm kind of like, whatever. 00:04:44.780 --> 00:04:49.720 But, yeah, I haven't watched a ton of basketball at the start of the season. 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:56.620 I've watched, I've watched only probably six or seven games, really, I feel like. 00:04:56.760 --> 00:04:59.960 And I've, I've, just because it started so quickly, you know. 00:05:01.040 --> 00:05:03.460 And so, I watched the game last night. 00:05:04.020 --> 00:05:07.640 It was, it was not the greatest game for the Lakers, but they did come back. 00:05:07.700 --> 00:05:09.420 But I, they're so good right now. 00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:10.440 They're just playing good. 00:05:10.700 --> 00:05:11.640 They seem to be cruising. 00:05:11.780 --> 00:05:15.460 Even the games they lose, it's like, they're, they're in it. 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.260 So, when a team is playing like that, you kind of assume they're going to win it. 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:20.840 But who knows? 00:05:20.880 --> 00:05:22.480 It all comes down to the trade deadline. 00:05:22.880 --> 00:05:24.020 Who gets moved around? 00:05:24.120 --> 00:05:25.040 Who are the buyouts? 00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:28.280 And injury, you know, it's going to be a weird year. 00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:33.820 Put people playing a lot of games, slow rest, and we're going to go in. 00:05:33.920 --> 00:05:36.580 It's going to be a weird, it's going to be, it's going to be interesting. 00:05:36.740 --> 00:05:37.740 So, the Lakers are the favorites. 00:05:37.840 --> 00:05:38.380 There's no doubt. 00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:39.140 Like, that's true. 00:05:39.480 --> 00:05:40.080 It's just the reality. 00:05:40.580 --> 00:05:42.540 Yeah, I think that's the LeBron effect. 00:05:42.540 --> 00:05:46.660 Like, you know, during the regular season, it doesn't matter really what happens because 00:05:46.660 --> 00:05:48.400 you know you're going to be there at the end. 00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:50.140 You know you're going to be in it. 00:05:50.580 --> 00:05:52.800 Like, that's how I felt the four years that he was here. 00:05:52.980 --> 00:05:57.680 It was, we had a lot of the drama that first year, that up, down, it was the heat, the whole 00:05:57.680 --> 00:05:58.860 thing with them going town to town. 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:02.080 But really, at the end, you knew that they were going to be there in contention as one 00:06:02.080 --> 00:06:04.660 of the final four, and then most likely one of the top two. 00:06:05.200 --> 00:06:06.320 Yeah, it's going to be good. 00:06:06.420 --> 00:06:10.900 I feel like, Jeff just brought that up to try to get us to not like each other. 00:06:11.200 --> 00:06:12.380 I feel like that's what I did. 00:06:12.380 --> 00:06:15.620 Well, you know, I'm going to put the proverbial gun through your head right here, because, 00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:20.560 Jay, I'm not feeling the excitement from you on the NBA with the Lakers. 00:06:20.700 --> 00:06:22.100 Like, you've got the crown. 00:06:22.400 --> 00:06:24.220 You're the champions, and you're not excited. 00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:27.140 So, I want to ask you this, and I'm not a sports guy. 00:06:28.460 --> 00:06:29.760 Lakers or the field? 00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:31.280 I want you to claim right now. 00:06:31.320 --> 00:06:32.480 I want you to throw down. 00:06:32.700 --> 00:06:35.380 Are the Lakers going to walk away with this, or is it going to be the field? 00:06:35.380 --> 00:06:41.220 Because you're not showing me the emotion that champion Laker fan needs to be showing. 00:06:41.660 --> 00:06:42.640 What do you got? 00:06:42.980 --> 00:06:45.620 You ask that question like you've gambled in the past. 00:06:48.620 --> 00:06:50.160 Jeff is sponsored. 00:06:50.620 --> 00:06:53.580 The Church Digital Podcast is officially sponsored by DraftKings. 00:06:53.620 --> 00:06:55.020 We want to thank DraftKings very much. 00:06:55.400 --> 00:06:55.640 Whoa. 00:06:56.800 --> 00:06:58.740 That just accelerated quickly. 00:07:01.060 --> 00:07:05.720 No, I would bet the Lakers right now. 00:07:06.020 --> 00:07:07.180 I would bet the Lakers. 00:07:07.960 --> 00:07:08.940 So, LeBron. 00:07:09.120 --> 00:07:12.640 Just LeBron's been there, and you've got all these teams that are very good. 00:07:13.300 --> 00:07:17.060 But if you look around, the Clippers are the only other ones that you kind of go, 00:07:17.120 --> 00:07:18.480 who can pull it out is Kawhi. 00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:20.280 Kawhi can deliver. 00:07:20.540 --> 00:07:25.240 But everybody else, you've got a lot of, like, Sixers haven't been there. 00:07:25.920 --> 00:07:29.880 Milwaukee struggles to get to the conference finals in there. 00:07:29.880 --> 00:07:34.480 You've got Nets, who KD is KD, but you've got everybody else who's, like, kind of a mess. 00:07:34.880 --> 00:07:38.040 And you just kind of go, Utah is Utah. 00:07:38.220 --> 00:07:43.000 Like, they're great, but they're always over-projected that Utah is going to be better. 00:07:43.140 --> 00:07:45.500 So, you just kind of look nuggets of struggle. 00:07:45.620 --> 00:07:49.240 Like, it's just like, yeah, you would go, the Lakers are the easy, they've got to be the favorites 00:07:49.240 --> 00:07:50.500 just because of LeBron. 00:07:51.080 --> 00:07:51.480 So, yeah. 00:07:51.860 --> 00:07:52.260 That's true. 00:07:52.620 --> 00:07:57.360 But also, yeah, I was going to say, you have the benefit of having the trophy. 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:58.560 You know, like you mentioned that earlier. 00:07:58.560 --> 00:07:58.940 Oh, yeah. 00:07:59.000 --> 00:08:03.600 Because on the off chance, and it would have been a huge upset had you guys lost to Miami, 00:08:03.740 --> 00:08:06.960 it would have been pure suffering this season, just waiting to get back to the top. 00:08:07.020 --> 00:08:09.860 Because that's how it felt to us when we lost to the Mavs that first year. 00:08:10.240 --> 00:08:13.200 It was suffering, just waiting to get back. 00:08:13.900 --> 00:08:19.800 They, you know, Popovich just said that it's, you know, it's hard to get, go back to back 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:24.860 because there's like, the motivation is not really there. 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.560 It's, you know, because you've kind of already done it. 00:08:27.640 --> 00:08:31.900 Now, when you, you know, I think LeBron is motivated to do it because he wants to kind 00:08:31.900 --> 00:08:33.560 of edge MJ. 00:08:33.880 --> 00:08:35.340 So, I think he's motivated. 00:08:35.520 --> 00:08:40.600 But I think, I don't, I don't, I think most, that's why it's, it's, it's hard. 00:08:40.980 --> 00:08:46.500 So, but yes, I like our, our start, our, our up there. 00:08:46.680 --> 00:08:49.160 So, if, I'll call it all off. 00:08:49.240 --> 00:08:52.560 If Russ ends up on the Miami Heat, you know, who knows? 00:08:54.060 --> 00:09:00.320 If Russ ends up there, we'll be, Russ, Russ, I think I saw scored 35 points on 35 shots 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:00.940 the other night. 00:09:01.120 --> 00:09:02.520 It was just horrendous. 00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:02.880 Wow. 00:09:03.100 --> 00:09:04.780 Well, Bradley, Matt is mad at Russ. 00:09:05.340 --> 00:09:05.500 Yeah. 00:09:05.620 --> 00:09:08.100 Bradley Bill would be the guy for the, for the heat. 00:09:08.180 --> 00:09:08.400 He would. 00:09:09.000 --> 00:09:09.240 Yeah. 00:09:09.440 --> 00:09:09.760 He would. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:11.180 It's just typical Heat fans. 00:09:11.280 --> 00:09:12.180 We don't want to give up anything. 00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:14.880 Like, we'll Photoshop a guy in our jerseys like all day. 00:09:14.920 --> 00:09:17.620 And we'll be like, yeah, let's trade the guy at the end of the bench for him. 00:09:17.620 --> 00:09:20.720 You're talking, the Laker fans are the Photoshop Kings. 00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:21.280 So. 00:09:21.860 --> 00:09:22.420 That's true. 00:09:23.780 --> 00:09:24.780 Let's not be aware. 00:09:24.860 --> 00:09:26.600 It's two franchises that are cursed with that. 00:09:27.100 --> 00:09:27.440 So. 00:09:28.260 --> 00:09:28.420 Okay. 00:09:28.420 --> 00:09:29.840 And we're going to pivot. 00:09:29.840 --> 00:09:33.800 That was nice for these six people who are still listening to the podcast, who are actually 00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:35.240 interested in online ministry. 00:09:35.480 --> 00:09:35.920 Awesome. 00:09:36.080 --> 00:09:40.960 Hey, let's, let's pivot and let's dive into, uh, into a conversation here, uh, about digital, 00:09:41.060 --> 00:09:43.180 about digital ministry, online ministry. 00:09:43.180 --> 00:09:46.140 So, uh, obviously COVID has been crazy. 00:09:46.140 --> 00:09:47.180 It's, it's been nuts. 00:09:47.580 --> 00:09:53.940 Um, and we've seen a massive cultural shift, uh, within churches within the past year. 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:58.120 I don't even think we've had, we're not, what are we, 10 months now heading into, uh, 00:09:58.120 --> 00:09:59.360 to March, 2021. 00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:04.140 And, and it's important, I think, to realize that COVID was an accelerator. 00:10:04.480 --> 00:10:05.960 Uh, we were already on this path. 00:10:06.020 --> 00:10:07.080 We were already on this journey. 00:10:07.580 --> 00:10:09.220 COVID just got us there quicker. 00:10:09.420 --> 00:10:16.200 It's a virtual fast forward button on the VCR machine, getting us to the destination at 00:10:16.200 --> 00:10:17.800 a much quicker rate. 00:10:17.800 --> 00:10:21.020 And with that, we've seen pivots within the church. 00:10:21.020 --> 00:10:24.320 Some churches are trying to go back to the way that it was February, 2020. 00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:27.380 Like that was the greatest time in the history of the church. 00:10:27.380 --> 00:10:35.120 Some, some people are trying to figure out how to address a new digital strategy, uh, a 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:39.000 fidgetal strategy, figuring out how to, to get physical and digital to work together. 00:10:39.460 --> 00:10:44.060 Um, what I wanted to do with this podcast really, you know, Jay, you've been doing the online 00:10:44.060 --> 00:10:46.860 ministry, digital ministry for a decade plus. 00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:50.700 Um, you know, at some point it's embarrassing to ask how many years, but you've been, you've 00:10:50.700 --> 00:10:51.660 been in the game a long time. 00:10:52.080 --> 00:10:54.600 Ray's been in the game a long time as well. 00:10:54.600 --> 00:11:01.520 And I would just wanted to even talk about how we've changed, uh, ministry, what the position 00:11:01.520 --> 00:11:08.700 looked like, maybe pre COVID, what the evolution, what the changes, how we've adjusted ministry, 00:11:08.700 --> 00:11:15.520 even an operating at a staff level, at a volunteer level, how ministry has looked different as 00:11:15.520 --> 00:11:21.640 we've gone from pre COVID towards this acceleration process and culture and where we are now. 00:11:21.840 --> 00:11:25.960 So even Jay, just to kick us off, by the way, welcome back once again, man, it's always great 00:11:25.960 --> 00:11:30.840 to have you on, but, but just tell us a little bit, like what, what pivots, what changes, what 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.640 evolutions have you seen kind of in digital ministry within this COVID season? 00:11:36.140 --> 00:11:36.680 Yeah, for sure. 00:11:36.680 --> 00:11:40.900 It's been a, you know, I don't know what the phrase is official. 00:11:40.900 --> 00:11:46.260 People are saying it's the adolescence or the adult phase of, of the internet. 00:11:46.260 --> 00:11:50.120 But we just, I mean, even right now, as we're recording this, you know, there's all this 00:11:50.120 --> 00:11:54.980 stuff going on, on the stock market with how Reddit and all these people are influencing 00:11:54.980 --> 00:11:55.400 things. 00:11:55.400 --> 00:12:00.320 I got right now up, uh, I got, I had a couple of months ago or a month ago, bought some dog 00:12:00.320 --> 00:12:02.960 coin crypto and I'm watching it double. 00:12:03.580 --> 00:12:08.860 And it's just like, cause of just internet and Twitter and people and engagement. 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:12.800 And it's just, you have this, like, you know, here's the deal when you get a bunch of people 00:12:12.800 --> 00:12:16.140 and you connect them, all sorts of things can happen both good and bad. 00:12:16.140 --> 00:12:21.620 And I think the church, um, for sure, it's, it's been a slow step into the direction of 00:12:21.620 --> 00:12:25.380 figuring out how do you use all these tools to do the things we need to do. 00:12:25.820 --> 00:12:29.960 Um, you know, early on, you know, my role, when I first stepped into online ministry, 00:12:29.960 --> 00:12:34.840 I was kind of just, you know, I would say somebody who just made sure the weekend happened 00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:36.720 and I pointed out issues. 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:39.520 It's like, did the stream work, have a chat person there. 00:12:39.600 --> 00:12:46.300 It was very like, you know, AOL chat, you know, MSN hotmail messenger ish, you know, it's 00:12:46.300 --> 00:12:49.900 just very, just, just make sure nothing breaks, you know? 00:12:49.900 --> 00:12:53.620 And then over the course of a couple of years, we started to see viewership grow. 00:12:53.840 --> 00:12:56.000 We started to see more people responding. 00:12:56.640 --> 00:13:02.360 I remember the first response cards I handled were like, I got exported to a PDF that I had 00:13:02.360 --> 00:13:06.140 to like type into a system to like follow up with. 00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:09.480 Um, now that's like 2009 ish, you know? 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:14.220 So like some of the systems were pretty new, at least how they all integrated together. 00:13:14.380 --> 00:13:19.880 But you think about now, like we moved from, you know, just having somebody paying attention 00:13:19.880 --> 00:13:25.320 to it to, Hey, these online groups are a huge potential. 00:13:25.500 --> 00:13:29.820 That was our first, I think, big learning was having me part-time over it. 00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:34.000 And then I had other responsibilities at my church when I first started. 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:37.320 And then our online groups grew a ton. 00:13:37.380 --> 00:13:40.160 And I think we launched those around 2012 ish. 00:13:40.800 --> 00:13:44.200 And we, you know, we weren't using zoom. 00:13:44.400 --> 00:13:45.480 I zoom didn't exist. 00:13:45.560 --> 00:13:48.380 I think it was called something else or it had just been created. 00:13:48.960 --> 00:13:53.280 And, uh, we used something called talk box at the time and integrated on our website. 00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:57.760 And I think online groups were our first, like big jump of like, Oh wow. 00:13:57.760 --> 00:13:59.160 Like community can happen. 00:13:59.160 --> 00:14:00.080 Like people can connect. 00:14:00.140 --> 00:14:04.580 Now it was like old school webcam, you know, I don't know, whatever it was. 00:14:04.580 --> 00:14:07.140 I think we actually use Adobe flash, uh, Adobe. 00:14:07.840 --> 00:14:10.320 Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, Adobe connect. 00:14:10.560 --> 00:14:10.840 Okay. 00:14:10.920 --> 00:14:11.600 Connect connects. 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:11.920 Okay. 00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:12.360 Flash. 00:14:12.400 --> 00:14:13.640 You're not allowed to say that anymore. 00:14:13.960 --> 00:14:15.760 That's like a, it's like a curse word. 00:14:15.840 --> 00:14:16.640 No, we're done. 00:14:16.640 --> 00:14:21.800 And like it, what, what that means anymore, because like some it's like, doesn't work. 00:14:21.800 --> 00:14:24.420 And then anyways, um, so it's dead. 00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:26.480 It's officially RIP. 00:14:26.480 --> 00:14:27.240 It's done. 00:14:27.500 --> 00:14:27.840 Okay. 00:14:28.380 --> 00:14:33.840 Um, I, I'm going to miss my flash games, addicted games.com flash based games. 00:14:34.380 --> 00:14:39.260 Um, so I, I just, it, that was our first stage for our church. 00:14:39.260 --> 00:14:42.960 And so I actually got hired initially full-time to be, to take care of our weekend and then 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:46.160 over our online groups and then move forward a couple more years. 00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:48.620 And then it was like, Hey, we actually want to make a campus out of this. 00:14:49.000 --> 00:14:51.920 And so it's like, we have the groups, we have the weekend, let's like get ministry. 00:14:52.120 --> 00:14:55.580 Let's like start maybe allowing people to start groups in their homes far away. 00:14:56.120 --> 00:15:01.420 Um, and then during COVID, you know, when we stepped into COVID, our church particular, 00:15:01.420 --> 00:15:07.240 you know, we definitely had a huge leap ahead, but I think we kind of really realized 00:15:07.240 --> 00:15:10.740 that, you know, coming out of COVID, this is going to look very differently. 00:15:11.260 --> 00:15:15.940 And so we had conversations early on, we had some strategy around, you know, what is 00:15:15.940 --> 00:15:19.040 like the butterfly moment for the online campus? 00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:23.340 Um, because, you know, with everybody being online, we don't want to segment out. 00:15:23.420 --> 00:15:27.500 You know, I, I've been kind of saying this thing where like the problem with having a 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:31.260 digital point person or online pastor or a digital pastor, whatever you want to call 00:15:31.260 --> 00:15:33.880 them, is that like, what are they supposed to own? 00:15:33.880 --> 00:15:36.620 Because every team is supposed to have a digital presence. 00:15:37.180 --> 00:15:41.820 So what are you, are you owning a, just the digital community or even a consultant internally? 00:15:41.980 --> 00:15:46.020 You know, that's the, you know, like if, if you're helping with, if you're the digital 00:15:46.020 --> 00:15:49.060 pastor and helping with online groups, or shouldn't those small groups person at your 00:15:49.060 --> 00:15:50.400 church be over the digital groups? 00:15:50.520 --> 00:15:51.880 How, how is that connection? 00:15:51.880 --> 00:15:55.140 And so obviously this gets easier, harder depending on your size. 00:15:55.140 --> 00:16:01.460 But I think even more recently we've been having that kind of moment of like, maybe the online 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:07.320 ministry is no longer like a campus and maybe like my role is a little bit more, um, broader 00:16:07.320 --> 00:16:10.340 where I'm helping the church on, on all sorts of things and speaking into things. 00:16:10.340 --> 00:16:14.940 But I think I just, I put this on Twitter and I don't know if you guys saw it, but I think 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:19.520 Ray, you saw, but I put this on Twitter a couple of days ago where I've talked to some of the 00:16:19.520 --> 00:16:25.580 largest churches over the last couple months and every single one of them have asked, what 00:16:25.580 --> 00:16:26.640 are you guys doing next? 00:16:27.120 --> 00:16:29.760 Because they, they are restructuring their online ministry. 00:16:29.760 --> 00:16:35.120 And these are churches that have thriving online ministries and they've realized that 00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.300 they can't just do the same thing. 00:16:37.300 --> 00:16:38.140 They got to change. 00:16:38.220 --> 00:16:40.940 And what's interesting is there's a bunch of churches that are looking towards us to go, 00:16:41.020 --> 00:16:42.340 we just want to do what you're doing. 00:16:42.840 --> 00:16:45.700 And what we're at is we're like, we don't want to keep doing this. 00:16:45.780 --> 00:16:47.200 We want to do something completely different. 00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:49.540 So that's kind of been our journey. 00:16:49.800 --> 00:16:54.100 I, that's like a shotgun of everything, but, um, but yeah, that's what I'm curious, Ray, 00:16:54.140 --> 00:16:56.080 what, what you guys are doing at your church. 00:16:56.500 --> 00:16:58.500 You know, for us, Jay, it's been very much the same thing. 00:16:58.560 --> 00:17:01.880 I mentioned this to Jeff earlier, where it's like, you know, Jeff started a lot of the stuff 00:17:01.880 --> 00:17:02.580 at Christ Fellowship. 00:17:02.580 --> 00:17:05.620 And then I grabbed the baton and I kept going with the groups and some of the different stuff. 00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:09.380 And we were continuing to build community, build community, build community, COVID hits. 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:15.580 And my role shifts more into, we've got campus pastors and then we've got dotted lines and online 00:17:15.580 --> 00:17:17.120 kind of functions a bit as both. 00:17:17.360 --> 00:17:23.740 And then my role shifted way more towards the dotted line side, where I found myself resourcing 00:17:23.740 --> 00:17:28.720 other ministries and working with them to first get their content up, but then to get them from 00:17:28.720 --> 00:17:30.480 content to community as well. 00:17:30.720 --> 00:17:35.120 And then since then, you know, by God's grace, uh, one of the things that we did last year, 00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:39.080 because, you know, on, especially down here, Miami, you know, we're bilingual. 00:17:39.080 --> 00:17:39.940 We got a whole lot of stuff. 00:17:40.140 --> 00:17:42.320 We, we weren't doing Spanish online. 00:17:42.320 --> 00:17:46.320 Then we decided, all right, now that we're, we're locked down, we got to go fully Spanish 00:17:46.320 --> 00:17:46.720 online. 00:17:47.020 --> 00:17:50.880 And so we, we brought back Spanish online for us and that had to go full. 00:17:51.160 --> 00:17:53.760 Then we had kids online, then we had students online. 00:17:53.760 --> 00:17:58.280 And so I finally got, you know, I was able to open up another job position to get somebody 00:17:58.280 --> 00:18:01.060 to help me out with some of the stuff that we're doing on the regular. 00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:04.820 And so Brandon came on, he's, he's my online coordinator. 00:18:04.820 --> 00:18:09.240 Now he helps me out with like the majority of the stuff now with the community, because 00:18:09.240 --> 00:18:14.180 I've got to focus on a lot more of a bigger picture in terms of, all right, what's kids 00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:14.420 doing? 00:18:14.520 --> 00:18:15.320 What's students doing? 00:18:15.440 --> 00:18:18.040 Oh, kind of like what you're saying, Jay, Hey, ministry has got to change. 00:18:18.100 --> 00:18:21.420 Oh man, students really aren't engaging with this, you know, the way that adults are 00:18:21.420 --> 00:18:21.960 with their stuff. 00:18:22.040 --> 00:18:25.220 So how can we help them brainstorm and work towards solutions for that? 00:18:26.940 --> 00:18:31.300 And then in the midst of that too, there's also this, this whole digital revolution that 00:18:31.300 --> 00:18:35.440 we were in the middle of even reopening where we wanted to go to more of a touchless experience. 00:18:36.280 --> 00:18:40.860 And I was already overseeing a lot of the digital aspects of our stuff in terms of our app and 00:18:40.860 --> 00:18:41.520 some of that stuff. 00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:45.460 And so we had to come up with creation and, and, you know, possibilities for that. 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:47.780 And then how to get that to integrate with our database system. 00:18:47.780 --> 00:18:54.300 So more and more of that has become half IT, half, you know, web-based stuff, and then 00:18:54.300 --> 00:18:56.020 a lot of community underneath. 00:18:56.360 --> 00:19:01.480 And so it's, it's been a little bit crazy fun as far as like how this rollercoaster ride 00:19:01.480 --> 00:19:06.920 has gone, but it's definitely not the same job description in terms of engaging it from 00:19:06.920 --> 00:19:07.380 the onset. 00:19:07.560 --> 00:19:08.320 Definitely not that. 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:12.980 Does, does kids and students, and like, is that, is that an active, I know Ray, you guys 00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:15.960 are, are, are still actively running with that. 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:19.080 Um, is that still active in general? 00:19:19.200 --> 00:19:20.520 Are we hearing a lot of that? 00:19:20.540 --> 00:19:25.240 It seems like we, we couldn't really figure out the answer and it felt like a lot of churches 00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:29.680 started to kind of fall away from that kind of what, what's your vibe looking into the future 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:32.720 as we look at like children's ministry and student ministry. 00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:33.620 Yeah. 00:19:33.660 --> 00:19:39.120 You know, you know, at a church, our sides, you know, it's really, you know, I, I'm not, 00:19:39.180 --> 00:19:44.680 I'm not super engaged with, um, I'm not part of that strategy directly. 00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:49.680 I'm more like a, an advocate or just somebody who speaks into, you know, where I can add value. 00:19:49.680 --> 00:19:52.460 I know like, are they're rethinking some of their strategy. 00:19:52.460 --> 00:19:57.340 They're trying to engage more like they've leaned heavy into YouTube and then they're 00:19:57.340 --> 00:19:59.160 trying to get a more live interactive event. 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:04.640 I actually think that they're going to maybe host some events on chop, um, in the next year. 00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:05.620 So like, that's easy. 00:20:05.620 --> 00:20:08.800 Like I've used chop, so I know how to like, you know, speaking to that. 00:20:08.800 --> 00:20:15.380 So, you know, I, I think for us, the one thing that each team has realized, and I think 00:20:15.380 --> 00:20:21.100 every church has realized is that, you know, you need to have some, this is what I'll say. 00:20:21.160 --> 00:20:24.980 I'm trying to encourage a lot of people to think through creating digital spaces where 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:27.140 their community can connect with each other. 00:20:27.440 --> 00:20:31.920 So instead of like a lot of churches, we're relying off of Sunday as the time you run into 00:20:31.920 --> 00:20:35.580 your people and you connect and they connect with each other, but you need to have like 00:20:35.580 --> 00:20:38.140 a Facebook group, a message or thread, you need to have something. 00:20:38.220 --> 00:20:40.620 I don't care where it is, but you need to allow that. 00:20:40.620 --> 00:20:45.840 And like, for example, like I know our, our Saddleback kids, you know, ministry, you know, 00:20:46.040 --> 00:20:50.100 they had a hard time converting parents to start watching their content because they never 00:20:50.100 --> 00:20:55.040 had the mechanism to rely, to, to tell them to go watch something because kids just showed 00:20:55.040 --> 00:20:55.760 up every weekend. 00:20:56.080 --> 00:21:00.240 And so that was like a communication strategy, but I know moving out of this, they, they want 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:02.840 that muscle to be big, but, um, to be strong. 00:21:02.840 --> 00:21:08.180 And so for us, it's, I think that's the nugget of how does it all work together? 00:21:08.180 --> 00:21:13.800 You know, under, you know, on our website, you know, we redesigned or, you know, we added 00:21:13.800 --> 00:21:17.580 the first couple of weeks of COVID, you know, links to our Saddleback kids and our student 00:21:17.580 --> 00:21:21.880 ministry links right on our online page where it used to be just our adult service where 00:21:21.880 --> 00:21:22.780 there were easy links. 00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:27.200 We're moving into more customizable stuff around campuses where you can get your own stuff. 00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:33.640 But, um, you know, I, I, I think coming out of COVID, you know, in person is going to be 00:21:33.640 --> 00:21:34.460 just as valuable. 00:21:34.460 --> 00:21:38.360 The question is, is I just think there's going to be more eyes on the digital and they're going 00:21:38.360 --> 00:21:43.560 to understand that that's such an important backup, you know, because yes, maybe you reach 00:21:43.560 --> 00:21:45.980 this many kids on a Sunday when you open back up. 00:21:45.980 --> 00:21:49.220 But the question is, is you still can reach more if you do digital, right? 00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:55.700 Um, you know, I always come back to something that I think is important this year is just no 00:21:55.700 --> 00:22:00.840 longer asking for scraps for online, like where you're just trying to justify it financially. 00:22:00.840 --> 00:22:02.440 I think we need to take bigger swings. 00:22:02.440 --> 00:22:05.760 We need to, you know, I, that's how I worked early on. 00:22:05.780 --> 00:22:08.700 It was just like, Hey, I, if we did this, I know it will make sense. 00:22:08.840 --> 00:22:13.800 And I think like, um, I like to think of the example of, you know, the church that I came 00:22:13.800 --> 00:22:18.580 to faith that was this was a church about 500, you know, not super small, not super big, 00:22:18.580 --> 00:22:23.780 but I remember like our youth ministry had a budget of like 2,500 for the year or something 00:22:23.780 --> 00:22:24.980 like that was our budget. 00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:31.020 And it was like a pain to try to get a budget increase, but we would spend like $10,000 once 00:22:31.020 --> 00:22:33.480 our AC broke on our worship building. 00:22:33.520 --> 00:22:38.600 And it's like, we're so quick to open up wallets for our building because we, cause it's easy 00:22:38.600 --> 00:22:39.120 to understand. 00:22:39.120 --> 00:22:43.600 It's like looking at, you know, I was, I was like, one of my good friends was arguing 00:22:43.600 --> 00:22:44.860 me about cryptocurrency. 00:22:44.860 --> 00:22:47.600 And he was like saying something about, it doesn't even make sense. 00:22:47.600 --> 00:22:49.160 And it's a zeros and ones. 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:52.300 And I was like, well, your money in your bank is just zeros and ones. 00:22:52.300 --> 00:22:53.260 It's the same thing. 00:22:53.380 --> 00:22:54.240 It's not money. 00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:56.080 It's not really sitting in the bank somewhere. 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:00.660 Um, but it's just hard for you to, it's hard for him to conceptualize why this is important 00:23:00.660 --> 00:23:01.500 the same way. 00:23:01.500 --> 00:23:06.100 I think it's hard for senior pastors and committees and leadership and deacon boards 00:23:06.100 --> 00:23:08.700 and all this to think about why is your website important? 00:23:08.800 --> 00:23:09.920 Why is your streaming in quality? 00:23:10.140 --> 00:23:10.840 You know why? 00:23:10.940 --> 00:23:14.640 I was just looking at another friend's church and, you know, they were streaming and the 00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.740 service was a little blurry. 00:23:15.740 --> 00:23:19.180 And I was just like, you know, I think your camera's too far away and you probably need 00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:21.360 to up it, but it's going to cost some money. 00:23:21.360 --> 00:23:21.680 Yeah. 00:23:21.900 --> 00:23:22.660 Get all that equipment. 00:23:22.660 --> 00:23:24.900 And I think it's just, we need to take bigger swings. 00:23:24.900 --> 00:23:31.040 And I think that's just, that's overall stuff I'm feeling, but I'm curious how more ministries 00:23:31.040 --> 00:23:37.080 adapt to the kids and stuff, because I think it is an area that is under, I will say most 00:23:37.080 --> 00:23:39.420 people's strategies that I see are super disconnected. 00:23:39.560 --> 00:23:44.500 Generally, I, um, Jim, just even last night, I was having a conversation with the lead pastor, 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.840 probably 800 to a thousand person church. 00:23:48.440 --> 00:23:53.340 And, um, and he asked me, he's like, how much, how much money should I be spending on 00:23:53.340 --> 00:23:53.700 digital? 00:23:54.180 --> 00:24:00.080 And my response was, what's your percentage of people pre COVID that are back into your 00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:00.460 building? 00:24:01.020 --> 00:24:02.940 And, and, and he said 20%. 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:07.760 And I said, so you've got 80% of people that are not in your building that are still engaging 00:24:07.760 --> 00:24:08.400 with you digitally. 00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:09.160 He said, yes. 00:24:09.400 --> 00:24:12.160 I said, how much money are you spending on digital right now? 00:24:12.360 --> 00:24:15.020 And he's like, maybe, maybe 2%. 00:24:15.020 --> 00:24:17.680 You might want to shift that a little bit. 00:24:17.680 --> 00:24:22.800 Like, I don't know that I want to say 80% of, of your budget needs to go towards digital 00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:28.600 since 80% of your people are digital, but at least something more than two, like don't 00:24:28.600 --> 00:24:29.540 tip online. 00:24:29.540 --> 00:24:34.240 If that's where the majority of your people are, um, engage with them. 00:24:34.320 --> 00:24:34.500 Yes. 00:24:34.580 --> 00:24:35.660 Pull them back to the building. 00:24:35.660 --> 00:24:39.960 If that's part of, of what your strategy is, but you're going to lose those people. 00:24:39.960 --> 00:24:43.420 If you continue to ignore them in digital space. 00:24:43.420 --> 00:24:46.000 So Ray, what, what are you chewing here thinking about this? 00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:46.740 No, it's funny. 00:24:46.740 --> 00:24:48.640 Cause you know, Jay mentioned crypto earlier. 00:24:48.640 --> 00:24:51.920 And I think a lot of pastors approach, uh, church online. 00:24:51.920 --> 00:24:55.340 Like they approach like some, some new people approach cryptocurrency, right? 00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:57.040 Jay, they're like, all right, cool. 00:24:57.060 --> 00:24:59.320 I'm going to invest $2 and I'm going to get back a million dollars. 00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:01.260 Like this is going to be like a lottery ticket, you know? 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:07.560 And they don't realize that there's, that this is investment in the sense of, yeah, you 00:25:07.560 --> 00:25:11.480 know, you, you get a little bit more bang for your buck, but at the same time, that doesn't 00:25:11.480 --> 00:25:12.540 mean that you go cheap. 00:25:12.880 --> 00:25:18.180 And especially in the area of kids and students, you know, as churches start to reopen, as 00:25:18.180 --> 00:25:22.300 they start to reconfigure their scorecards, Hey, how are we going to determine whether 00:25:22.300 --> 00:25:25.980 or not we've got wins here as we reopen and try to get some of these people back into the 00:25:25.980 --> 00:25:30.620 building, especially for Gen Z, you know, you're, you're talking about reaching this 00:25:30.620 --> 00:25:35.720 next generation, Jeff, your kids, Jay, your kids, my kids, they're all watching YouTube 00:25:35.720 --> 00:25:36.220 channels. 00:25:36.220 --> 00:25:38.180 They're all watching these influencers. 00:25:38.180 --> 00:25:41.000 They're, they're, they're pouring in hours and hours. 00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:41.680 Yeah. 00:25:42.120 --> 00:25:43.640 For you, it's roadblocks for my kids. 00:25:43.740 --> 00:25:44.560 It's ninja kids. 00:25:44.560 --> 00:25:47.980 Like they're obsessed with like, you know, these little American ninja warrior children, 00:25:47.980 --> 00:25:49.540 you know, that, that flip all over the screen. 00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:52.080 That's, but that's what they're into. 00:25:52.340 --> 00:25:56.380 But, you know, for, for kids and students, we kind of have to be at the forefront of some 00:25:56.380 --> 00:25:56.880 of that too. 00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.340 And we have to figure out how to do that. 00:25:58.600 --> 00:26:03.740 Our kids ministry, they did something fantastic that they're still doing where they got smart. 00:26:03.740 --> 00:26:07.360 They started to think like a YouTuber and they started getting into these box challenges 00:26:07.360 --> 00:26:10.720 where basically they would give kids challenges throughout the series. 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.380 They would encourage them to watch like, Hey, you know, make sure that get your parents 00:26:14.380 --> 00:26:17.200 permission, you know, fill out the card. 00:26:17.200 --> 00:26:19.400 Like, Hey, I, we're going to give you guys some things to do. 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:21.700 Like, Hey, I watched three out of the five services. 00:26:21.700 --> 00:26:24.140 I memorized the verse for the series. 00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:26.540 I did this email that to us. 00:26:26.540 --> 00:26:30.420 And then we will send you a box full of CF kids goodies. 00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:33.020 And then, you know, they, they come through on it. 00:26:33.020 --> 00:26:38.260 And that, that right there has been a great way for us to get some data and write like, Hey, 00:26:38.260 --> 00:26:38.860 are you watching? 00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:39.960 We want to connect with you. 00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:44.700 And then from there, we've also offered parents like free resources on the form as well. 00:26:44.700 --> 00:26:49.140 Like, Hey, we'll email you all of our orange, you know, resources that we have for parents. 00:26:49.280 --> 00:26:53.980 And that's been a great way to just kind of tie all that in together and a powerful way to help 00:26:53.980 --> 00:26:55.060 kids create community. 00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:58.660 And then the parents, like we encourage them to tag, like when their kids get the box tag 00:26:58.660 --> 00:27:01.020 it on social media, you know, and we share that. 00:27:01.100 --> 00:27:04.240 And so it's created this really cool ongoing community that's worked out really well for 00:27:04.240 --> 00:27:04.420 us. 00:27:04.460 --> 00:27:04.880 It's been good. 00:27:05.420 --> 00:27:05.520 Yeah. 00:27:05.580 --> 00:27:07.920 Maybe even that, that's a great idea, right? 00:27:07.960 --> 00:27:12.800 Like I'd never, the fidgetal approach of that mailing something physical, getting kids 00:27:12.800 --> 00:27:18.500 to engage with something in physical space, rewarding that, you know, I know at, um, I'm 00:27:18.500 --> 00:27:21.980 just even thinking back to my days at Christ fellowship, they had the, well, I don't know what 00:27:21.980 --> 00:27:26.460 it's called, but the bling store where you could go get like all the cheesy stickers with 00:27:26.460 --> 00:27:30.340 the Christ fellowship branding or the CF kids Frisbee and all that. 00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:36.760 But trying to engage that physical side by rewarding digital engagement, that's, that's 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:38.440 really a great idea. 00:27:38.500 --> 00:27:40.140 And that's easy to do, right? 00:27:40.520 --> 00:27:44.440 I don't know that I wanted to park out on this, but the ability for a small church to 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:50.240 create a small bling box, uh, to, to mail out or to, to reward some of that engagement 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.760 that that's a great idea. 00:27:52.180 --> 00:27:52.300 Yeah. 00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:54.980 And, and, and just to give you an idea for those new churches that are listening out 00:27:54.980 --> 00:27:57.100 there, you're like, oh man, but what if it costs X, Y, and Z? 00:27:57.100 --> 00:28:01.420 We, so one of the things that we did was we resourced our local, our local campus kids 00:28:01.420 --> 00:28:05.520 directors to deliver the boxes for their kids, you know, in a safe, spacious and sanitized 00:28:05.520 --> 00:28:05.660 way. 00:28:05.660 --> 00:28:07.680 They would show up and my girls loved it. 00:28:07.680 --> 00:28:12.800 Like their campus kids director showed up masked up, you know, with like little bells and whistles 00:28:12.800 --> 00:28:13.620 and that kind of thing. 00:28:13.620 --> 00:28:15.920 Like shaking it up, like, Hey, Zoe and Lexi, you guys did it. 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:16.540 That's awesome. 00:28:16.960 --> 00:28:22.140 And they left the box there, you know, but for my kids, anything that they get in snail 00:28:22.140 --> 00:28:23.400 mail is gold. 00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:27.380 Anything that they get in the mail, it makes them feel so special. 00:28:27.820 --> 00:28:31.180 And so that, that for them just creates an awesome experience for them. 00:28:31.340 --> 00:28:37.000 There's something around, um, you know, one of the things I'm trying to do is because the 00:28:37.000 --> 00:28:44.280 learning curve here is so quick, it's, you know, you know, I, I last a couple, the last 00:28:44.280 --> 00:28:47.340 couple of weeks I've been told by like, you know, a bunch of different people that I need 00:28:47.340 --> 00:28:48.220 to be on clubhouse. 00:28:48.640 --> 00:28:54.320 And it's like, even to me as a digital pastor, I'm like, whatever, you know what I mean? 00:28:54.460 --> 00:28:59.700 Like, and, and so like I get on it and I'm using it, but the question is, it's like everybody 00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:02.280 else is just like sinking, you know, they're trying to keep ahead. 00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:06.120 And I think there's all these ideas from kids ministries to how to make your service more 00:29:06.120 --> 00:29:10.160 engaging, how to think about groups, to communication strategies, all this stuff. 00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:15.500 And I think one of the things I we're trying to do, and, and, and I think some churches 00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:20.100 I've seen do this is try to create more of a cohort of learning and honoring those that 00:29:20.100 --> 00:29:26.200 are taking, you know, cool, doing cool things because no one, no one here is the expert on 00:29:26.200 --> 00:29:26.800 this stuff. 00:29:26.860 --> 00:29:29.760 I think there are people that can be voices of reason. 00:29:30.100 --> 00:29:35.260 You know, I might not know how every platform works, but I at least can think through what's 00:29:35.260 --> 00:29:38.560 the, you know, I can notice good expressions of things. 00:29:38.560 --> 00:29:43.000 And I think we're trying to create like a, like honoring, especially because the church 00:29:43.000 --> 00:29:46.400 our size, like, Hey, check out what this team did and like, let's learn from it. 00:29:46.400 --> 00:29:47.520 Or here's the tip. 00:29:47.560 --> 00:29:52.760 So almost like educating, you know, and I would say for most churches do that for your staff 00:29:52.760 --> 00:29:56.040 and for your volunteers, you know, even when you're small, like, how do you get your core? 00:29:56.140 --> 00:30:01.020 When I was a youth pastor before I was at my church, you know, I had 20 volunteers that 00:30:01.020 --> 00:30:05.400 I met with monthly that helped pull off our youth ministry and we would meet and we would 00:30:05.400 --> 00:30:07.080 talk about things and they weren't paid. 00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:10.060 And I would do the same thing there, like teaching digital. 00:30:10.260 --> 00:30:14.940 So like that, you know, at that point it would be like, Hey, your small group leaders or your 00:30:14.940 --> 00:30:16.500 people in your group, what tools are you using? 00:30:16.600 --> 00:30:17.680 You know, how do you use it? 00:30:17.760 --> 00:30:22.000 You know, tell us about Slack or tell us about house party or whatever. 00:30:22.860 --> 00:30:29.240 Um, and so I think we're trying to, and so by, by elevating people at our church that are 00:30:29.240 --> 00:30:34.020 doing cool things digitally, it's, it's, it's kind of saying like, Hey, this is a cool stuff. 00:30:34.020 --> 00:30:38.660 And then it's also encouraging and equalizing it to everybody else. 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:41.660 And so that, I mean, that's what happened to the world with zoom, right? 00:30:41.860 --> 00:30:43.340 Nobody really understood zoom. 00:30:43.480 --> 00:30:45.000 Now everybody understands it. 00:30:45.020 --> 00:30:48.320 They understand so much about zoom that they're fatigued on zoom. 00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.900 So I think, but that came with like being pushed into the deep end. 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:56.320 And so I think, I think one of the things that, you know, especially if you're listening to 00:30:56.320 --> 00:31:01.320 this as an online pastor, you know, figure out how you can be a coach to your broader church, 00:31:01.320 --> 00:31:05.340 or even if you're the digital person at your church, maybe you're not even that officially, 00:31:05.340 --> 00:31:10.500 you know, like send a monthly email about, Hey, I noticed what the kids ministry did with 00:31:10.500 --> 00:31:15.140 this, or, Hey, by the way, I was reading this article about this thing, you know, you know, 00:31:15.140 --> 00:31:20.280 so I think having that collective, you know, almost like a Reddit thread type of sub community 00:31:20.280 --> 00:31:22.160 where you're just kind of learning together. 00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:28.580 And then what you do is you position yourself as a, as somebody who is, um, who, who is one 00:31:28.580 --> 00:31:32.300 of the experts, you know, I did not sign up to be an expert in online church. 00:31:32.300 --> 00:31:34.560 I just started to like, talk about it, share it. 00:31:34.560 --> 00:31:38.560 And I think, especially if this is somebody, and I'm going to get super focused here, like 00:31:38.560 --> 00:31:41.860 if this is somebody that you're like, you want to be that person for your church, well, just 00:31:41.860 --> 00:31:46.900 start doing it, start doing it, start sending, you know how many times I've gotten goodwill 00:31:46.900 --> 00:31:49.800 with my leaders by just sending random emails of my thoughts. 00:31:50.900 --> 00:31:55.200 Like, it's just like, Hey, I was thinking, and like, I'll get this reply back, which I'm 00:31:55.200 --> 00:31:56.420 like, they're not even going to reply. 00:31:56.540 --> 00:31:58.260 And they'd be like, this was so good. 00:31:58.260 --> 00:32:00.140 And it's just like a small thing like that. 00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:04.680 And so it's always, it's always easier to go, well, it'd be nice if I had that title, 00:32:04.680 --> 00:32:08.720 but I'm telling you like your leadership and your church and your people, they don't know 00:32:08.720 --> 00:32:09.640 how to think about this. 00:32:09.640 --> 00:32:13.820 And that's why you're going to have to build it, which is like the scary part of it. 00:32:13.820 --> 00:32:14.780 And also the fun part. 00:32:15.220 --> 00:32:19.760 I like the idea, Jay, of decentralizing to, you know, the pathway for information to flow 00:32:19.760 --> 00:32:19.960 in. 00:32:20.020 --> 00:32:23.800 Like you talked about, you know, sharing articles or sharing things and encouraging that kind 00:32:23.800 --> 00:32:28.220 of thing within the organization, because so often, and we've talked about this on this 00:32:28.220 --> 00:32:33.220 podcast where it's like, I don't have all the good ideas, but I can, I can also be a student 00:32:33.220 --> 00:32:37.460 of other people in the organization in terms of what they're doing and sharing that amongst 00:32:37.460 --> 00:32:37.800 each other. 00:32:37.800 --> 00:32:42.640 That's important because my kids director might have a great idea for, for adults online 00:32:42.640 --> 00:32:47.620 that I'm not even thinking about, but if, if I shut myself off to her, then, then I've 00:32:47.620 --> 00:32:51.720 siloed everything that we could do in digital and we, we might not grow or we miss out on 00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:53.720 an opportunity to grow together as an organization. 00:32:54.080 --> 00:32:54.520 Yeah. 00:32:54.560 --> 00:32:58.380 If you keep pulling that thread and following this decentralized line that we were talking 00:32:58.380 --> 00:33:03.100 about, we're getting back to this place of empowering individuals and listening to 00:33:03.100 --> 00:33:04.300 individuals in that. 00:33:04.300 --> 00:33:09.580 And, and that really even going back to the whole Reddit GameStop thing that we're living 00:33:09.580 --> 00:33:15.620 through in real time, for me, this is just another example of where individuals have more power 00:33:15.620 --> 00:33:19.340 in now 2021 than our organizations do. 00:33:19.540 --> 00:33:26.200 If the individuals figure out how to capitalize, how to take advantage of the system, how to 00:33:26.200 --> 00:33:32.420 speak up for themselves and, and, and manage it, organizations need to be afraid of an individual 00:33:32.420 --> 00:33:35.140 or of individuals that are on a mission. 00:33:35.500 --> 00:33:40.720 If we, the church could figure out how to do that, if, if to leverage our individuals to 00:33:40.720 --> 00:33:42.960 that way, it's phenomenal potential. 00:33:43.300 --> 00:33:48.500 And as we're talking about like equipping and how are you guys seeing, you know, in your 00:33:48.500 --> 00:33:53.340 ministry, maybe we weren't even talking about equipping, maybe Jay was, cause Jay was future 00:33:53.340 --> 00:33:54.720 thinking pre COVID. 00:33:54.860 --> 00:33:58.940 But now in this season, Kerry Newhoff saying, Hey, if you want to be effective in the future, 00:33:58.940 --> 00:34:00.980 you need to be equipping people today. 00:34:01.180 --> 00:34:02.640 How are you seeing that pivot? 00:34:02.760 --> 00:34:05.940 Are you seeing that pivot happening in real time within your churches? 00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:13.700 Yeah, I'm, I guess, you know, I, I, I see stuff happening and I think what's hard is we are 00:34:13.700 --> 00:34:22.320 at a really weird moment where it, this is why it's always easier for a, you know, for it's 00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:27.260 harder for a blockbuster to become Netflix and that, and then a Netflix to go back to blockbuster. 00:34:27.260 --> 00:34:27.800 You know what I mean? 00:34:27.800 --> 00:34:31.200 Like, because it's just when you're, you're trying to move a huge ship here. 00:34:31.200 --> 00:34:36.040 And so I think, I still think there's this thinking around churches where, you know, it's, 00:34:36.040 --> 00:34:40.940 it's about ministering to people in the room and it's about, you know, because here's the 00:34:40.940 --> 00:34:41.080 deal. 00:34:41.100 --> 00:34:44.700 There's a lot of churches that are in lease agreements, have debts and stuff, and they 00:34:44.700 --> 00:34:47.420 have to make that thing work, you know, which is okay. 00:34:47.420 --> 00:34:51.080 I think this is why other, I've had a lot of conversations with churches internationally 00:34:51.080 --> 00:34:53.500 that don't have the luxury of, of being able to own property. 00:34:54.140 --> 00:34:56.380 And it's a whole nother dynamic, you know? 00:34:56.580 --> 00:35:02.080 It's the same reason why a lot of our stuff about not meeting here in the U S it's, we 00:35:02.080 --> 00:35:05.700 can cry about our religious rights because we, we have a lot of them here. 00:35:05.860 --> 00:35:13.040 And so, uh, and so I, I, I'm curious, I, I'm not a hundred percent sure how churches will 00:35:13.040 --> 00:35:16.400 pivot, but I, I, I am excited. 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:21.500 I will say one of the things that I, I really love is there are a lot of churches embracing 00:35:21.500 --> 00:35:24.620 like YouTube over just a Facebook stream more. 00:35:24.980 --> 00:35:30.600 And I think that's the opportunity of getting away from time specific things that is really 00:35:30.600 --> 00:35:31.140 encouraging. 00:35:31.140 --> 00:35:34.460 Because if we're just talking about, you know, the first couple of weeks is just how do we 00:35:34.460 --> 00:35:35.460 get weekend happening? 00:35:35.460 --> 00:35:42.500 It's very streaming dependent, which is a great strategy, but you know, the internet, you know, 00:35:42.500 --> 00:35:47.020 the whole thing is that you can do things 24 seven, you don't have to just, you know, get 00:35:47.020 --> 00:35:51.260 people around a, you know, a specific time, which I think is corporately gathering on time, 00:35:51.320 --> 00:35:54.340 real time is really important, um, especially for the church. 00:35:54.340 --> 00:35:58.400 But I think if you build out a YouTube strategy where people can discover you and find you in 00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.340 a lot of creative inbound type of real internet ways and not just replicating what's happening 00:36:04.340 --> 00:36:05.080 and building online. 00:36:05.080 --> 00:36:06.520 I think that's what I'm cool. 00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:11.060 Also seeing churches, uh, especially now those are going back in person, thinking through 00:36:11.060 --> 00:36:15.060 how do you have the tension between meeting in person and then having something online? 00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:16.720 Maybe the online product is a little different. 00:36:16.720 --> 00:36:20.540 And maybe, you know, the phrase that I've been using is like strategically streaming where 00:36:20.540 --> 00:36:21.620 you're not streaming everything. 00:36:21.620 --> 00:36:25.520 You're not just streaming what happens in a room, but maybe you do, maybe you have Sunday 00:36:25.520 --> 00:36:29.620 and then you have a special edit and you put some love into it and you just make it a 00:36:29.620 --> 00:36:30.180 little different. 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:33.660 Um, and then that, that goes back to inviting them back in person. 00:36:33.660 --> 00:36:35.780 So those are some of my high level thoughts. 00:36:36.580 --> 00:36:37.660 Strategically streaming. 00:36:38.000 --> 00:36:40.040 I love that term. 00:36:40.260 --> 00:36:42.980 I've been trying to figure out how to like describe that idea. 00:36:43.140 --> 00:36:45.340 I'm, I'll give you credit for the first couple of times. 00:36:45.340 --> 00:36:47.940 I'd say it's strategically streaming. 00:36:48.060 --> 00:36:49.080 What, what, what said there. 00:36:49.080 --> 00:36:51.220 Yeah, I agree with everything what Jay was saying. 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.300 I think kind of moving forward when it comes to resourcing, my biggest concern at this point 00:36:55.300 --> 00:36:59.440 for, for at least for the Western church, uh, for, for us here in the United States 00:36:59.440 --> 00:37:01.620 is that Jeff, you and I have talked about this privately. 00:37:01.620 --> 00:37:05.280 Um, we're over resourced and we're under discipled, right? 00:37:05.300 --> 00:37:10.920 Like we've got resources galore in terms of online content, in terms of communication, in 00:37:10.920 --> 00:37:13.100 terms of a lot of stuff that exists out there. 00:37:13.100 --> 00:37:18.240 Like, and I'm even surprised at all the different age groups now post COVID, right. 00:37:18.240 --> 00:37:23.760 That are, are engaging with online channels to learn and, and, and to do different things. 00:37:23.900 --> 00:37:29.480 My, my, I think moving forward, another big concern for me is content curation a long time 00:37:29.480 --> 00:37:34.360 with some of this stuff as, and I'm not trying to make this completely political, but you know, 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:39.080 the QAnon stuff really did open up at least for us in the church, as far as a lot of misinformation 00:37:39.080 --> 00:37:43.460 that can infiltrate the church and really steer it in a direction that we don't want to go. 00:37:44.180 --> 00:37:47.580 And it, you know, a lot of pastors, I know Stetzer has even talked about this, how a lot 00:37:47.580 --> 00:37:51.120 of pastors are afraid to address that with their own churches, because so many of them have 00:37:51.120 --> 00:37:55.500 been discipled wrongly and poorly and driven towards a bad direction that they're afraid 00:37:55.500 --> 00:37:57.120 to lose their congregation over it. 00:37:57.600 --> 00:38:01.260 Uh, and that's something that just kind of weeded its way through, you know, thanks to 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:06.260 the algorithm and kind of found its way into the church and really took a lot of well-meaning 00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:08.720 believers down a path that they never intended to go. 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.800 Um, you know, or as I love to joke around with folks, the things that my parents warned 00:38:13.800 --> 00:38:17.120 me about as I was growing up, Hey, those video games are going to rot your brain. 00:38:17.220 --> 00:38:19.680 Now I've got to warn them about, Hey, that internet's going to rot your brain. 00:38:20.060 --> 00:38:26.680 So, you know, I've got to be constantly, you know, concerned about that in terms of, you 00:38:26.680 --> 00:38:31.460 know, how that is shaping and shifting our disciples and our followers and where it's shifting 00:38:31.460 --> 00:38:34.780 their attention, because if we're going to keep them on mission, then that also means 00:38:34.780 --> 00:38:38.160 that we have to keep them, you know, thinking and moving in the right direction. 00:38:38.800 --> 00:38:41.740 And we got to go from, you know, right. 00:38:41.740 --> 00:38:45.960 The head to the heart, to the hands, to actual, actual action with that. 00:38:46.100 --> 00:38:50.700 And so they're over-resourced, but the resources that they're receiving, the content creation 00:38:50.700 --> 00:38:52.300 within that is a bit of a concern. 00:38:52.300 --> 00:38:56.940 And then how it's actually leading them to action is another concern, because we've talked 00:38:56.940 --> 00:38:58.060 about this with Jay before. 00:38:59.060 --> 00:39:03.480 You know, they could just, and we saw it even with COVID, some of them found a different 00:39:03.480 --> 00:39:08.240 digital church during that time, because there wasn't that kind of community. 00:39:08.700 --> 00:39:13.300 They found a pastor that they liked hearing from more or somebody that was more their flavor. 00:39:14.020 --> 00:39:16.140 And so they disconnected from community as a result. 00:39:16.660 --> 00:39:20.680 And I think that's something that we just have to be more tapped into in terms of keeping 00:39:20.680 --> 00:39:25.780 real relationship with our people, because if, what was it I heard today? 00:39:25.880 --> 00:39:29.460 That the technology has to be, it has to make us more human. 00:39:29.800 --> 00:39:31.300 We have to find greater ways to connect. 00:39:31.620 --> 00:39:35.220 And so that right there, I think that's, that's a big concern for me moving forward. 00:39:35.460 --> 00:39:40.180 Really, Ray, what you're talking about is like the, really, it's the heart of online to offline. 00:39:40.320 --> 00:39:44.900 I want to, you know, I'm not promoting Jay and the stuff that he's been doing through Saddleback, 00:39:44.900 --> 00:39:52.960 but it's this idea of if, if we're not seeing action in our hands, then we're creating content 00:39:52.960 --> 00:39:55.280 that's only consuming. 00:39:55.420 --> 00:40:02.580 We're creating consumers instead of driving that into offline realms where we're being real 00:40:02.580 --> 00:40:03.600 with, with real people. 00:40:03.640 --> 00:40:08.920 And that's why I love this idea of online to offline, the gospel that we hear in our online 00:40:08.920 --> 00:40:11.800 world, it has to influence what we're doing offline. 00:40:11.800 --> 00:40:19.180 And, and while that was a, a theoretical principle that philosophically we could talk about pre-COVID 00:40:19.180 --> 00:40:23.500 now that we're coming into, you know, mid post-COVID, that's a reality. 00:40:23.840 --> 00:40:28.860 I think more people are seeing that today and are understanding that standard today than definitely 00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:33.220 was around before this thing got started back in, in March, 2020. 00:40:33.640 --> 00:40:34.600 Let's pivot here. 00:40:34.860 --> 00:40:39.700 Um, and let's dig into something, you know, I, I made a kind of a joke earlier about pastors 00:40:39.700 --> 00:40:45.560 wanting to go back to February, 2020, uh, seriously though, in, in, in all respect, um, they do a 00:40:45.560 --> 00:40:45.960 phenomenon. 00:40:46.060 --> 00:40:51.080 There's so much pressure centered around a lead pastor in this environment in 2021. 00:40:51.720 --> 00:40:59.680 Like I cannot imagine what it would be like to lead an organization of any size between shutting 00:40:59.680 --> 00:41:03.060 the doors, the religious freedoms, the COVID safe. 00:41:03.060 --> 00:41:07.440 And, and like, they don't prep any of them, not even talking about like the, the race issues 00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:11.460 and everything that's, that's surrounding that there's no seminary class for this. 00:41:11.460 --> 00:41:13.820 I'm guessing Jay Ray, you guys were seminary graduates. 00:41:13.980 --> 00:41:17.700 They, they didn't, they didn't teach you about how to handle pandemics and no. 00:41:17.800 --> 00:41:18.080 Okay, good. 00:41:18.540 --> 00:41:21.420 Jay, I was the only one from a major city in my seminary. 00:41:24.360 --> 00:41:29.780 I had, I had some, I had normal folk in my, in my, in my classes, but no, yeah, you're right. 00:41:29.780 --> 00:41:33.280 Like it's not, you know, I loved my time at seminary. 00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:38.820 It was, it was amazing, but you know, I, I actually asked my profs multiple times about 00:41:38.820 --> 00:41:44.940 online ministry and they looked at me at complete confusion, um, because again, it's, you know, 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:45.820 they weren't using it. 00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:50.480 And I think this is why it's really important that before you make judgments on platforms 00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:54.480 in places, you need to, you need to, you need to just dabble in it. 00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:57.120 I'm not saying you got to like full-time commit to it. 00:41:57.180 --> 00:41:59.560 You know, there's a lot of platforms that I don't use daily. 00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:03.160 Um, I barely use Instagram and Facebook daily. 00:42:03.640 --> 00:42:09.180 Um, I, I I'm on them and I check and I interact, but I don't really, you know, you go to my 00:42:09.180 --> 00:42:09.800 Instagram account. 00:42:09.860 --> 00:42:14.680 I barely, I'm not on that that much, but I think it's about just having a presence and 00:42:14.680 --> 00:42:15.460 understanding it. 00:42:15.460 --> 00:42:20.260 And then by understanding it, or at least being in it, it allows you to start form bright 00:42:20.260 --> 00:42:21.580 opinions on how to leverage it. 00:42:21.580 --> 00:42:23.240 And so I, again, I think you're right. 00:42:23.300 --> 00:42:25.700 Like the internet is, it's just a tool. 00:42:26.140 --> 00:42:27.540 Um, technology is just a tool. 00:42:27.660 --> 00:42:30.420 It's an, it's, you know, it's like fire. 00:42:30.520 --> 00:42:32.680 It can burn your hand or it can, you know, cook your dinner. 00:42:32.680 --> 00:42:38.340 And I think, uh, I think that's something that we, as I think the, and this is what I've 00:42:38.340 --> 00:42:43.160 loved about pastors over the last, um, you know, 10 plus months, you know, just jumping 00:42:43.160 --> 00:42:47.440 into the trenches is that they've started this, they've opened their eyes on what's potential. 00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:50.060 There was such a closed off mind, I think for a long time. 00:42:50.060 --> 00:42:52.560 And now they're like, you know what, this is possible, you know? 00:42:52.560 --> 00:42:56.800 And just like anything, it's going to take work and strategy, but I do think the more 00:42:56.800 --> 00:43:01.340 you have, you know, different minds thinking and processing and trying things, I think 00:43:01.340 --> 00:43:02.980 we're going to have really cool things happen. 00:43:03.660 --> 00:43:07.280 And, um, that's why I've always been a big believer that I think it's going to be the 00:43:07.280 --> 00:43:11.800 churches, you know, under 500 that are really going to leverage the internet in a whole new 00:43:11.800 --> 00:43:12.340 creative way. 00:43:12.340 --> 00:43:13.600 Because here's the deal. 00:43:13.720 --> 00:43:18.920 If you're a big church, you got a big building and you got big things to pay off and do things, 00:43:19.000 --> 00:43:24.640 you know, there's a lot there and you have some sandbox to think, you know, to think through, 00:43:24.800 --> 00:43:28.720 you know, that there's a reason why it's, it's hard to make that shift, but a small church, 00:43:28.720 --> 00:43:30.260 you can start from the ground up. 00:43:30.520 --> 00:43:35.460 You know, I, I, I, another phrase that I started to use is like, you know, the potential of like 00:43:35.460 --> 00:43:40.920 location, less churches, you know, like really location, less churches. 00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:47.040 And I know this is stuff, Jeff, you're, you're doing with Stadia and, but like, that's a shift. 00:43:47.040 --> 00:43:51.460 And I've had, I've had many conversations with, with people over the last 10 years about this 00:43:51.460 --> 00:43:55.780 concept and I've had people try it and fail, but I think the amount of people coming into 00:43:55.780 --> 00:43:58.140 a seminary really thinking about that, I think is really cool. 00:43:58.520 --> 00:44:03.520 They, I still think I get really worried about some of the barriers of entry with like huge 00:44:03.520 --> 00:44:06.780 technologies, like the CRMs and stuff and how segmented they are. 00:44:06.780 --> 00:44:10.800 And even I, I get overwhelmed at all that stuff. 00:44:10.800 --> 00:44:17.160 And I, and I think, I, I still think there needs to be more innovation in that realm to 00:44:17.160 --> 00:44:20.780 kind of make, you know, personalization really done right. 00:44:20.780 --> 00:44:25.080 And automation and all this stuff like scale, because I think there's a lot of tools, but 00:44:25.080 --> 00:44:27.640 you got to kind of Frankenstein it all together. 00:44:27.640 --> 00:44:34.820 And I think, uh, I hope that more of these large, especially church CRMs that churches 00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:39.720 are tied to, you know, have a come to Jesus moment and really think through like how to 00:44:39.720 --> 00:44:40.480 build stuff. 00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:42.140 Um, I don't know how much is possible. 00:44:42.140 --> 00:44:43.380 I know there's cool stuff happening. 00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:48.100 I'm, I don't live in that world, but I just feel like every other week I hear about some 00:44:48.100 --> 00:44:53.080 new random CRM that I've never heard of that they're like, you know, knees deep in. 00:44:53.140 --> 00:44:54.960 And I'm like, what in the world is this thing? 00:44:55.020 --> 00:45:01.140 Why are the screenshots look like it's like a, you know, a windows 98 or something like, 00:45:01.380 --> 00:45:03.480 you know, the software, but that's, that's true. 00:45:03.560 --> 00:45:05.820 So I think data is such a huge thing. 00:45:05.860 --> 00:45:11.060 And I, I always bring this up, but I just, it, you know, you get him, you just, you get 00:45:11.060 --> 00:45:15.340 stuck if you can't really manipulate it and do things and personalize, you know, and, and 00:45:15.340 --> 00:45:15.960 all that stuff. 00:45:16.140 --> 00:45:20.220 I honestly did not think we would talk about CRMs and CHMSs today. 00:45:20.220 --> 00:45:22.380 That was not on my radar. 00:45:22.380 --> 00:45:24.100 So, so, so that that's intriguing. 00:45:24.100 --> 00:45:27.660 Are you, are you advocating for, and I'm, I don't mean to put you on the spot. 00:45:27.760 --> 00:45:31.080 I'm not looking for Mike drops explosion type, type things. 00:45:31.080 --> 00:45:35.560 Like, is it, is it less it that you think is, is necessary? 00:45:35.560 --> 00:45:41.200 Is it like a deeper feature base to get it more, more developed? 00:45:41.200 --> 00:45:44.180 Like what, what, what are you kind of wrestling with here? 00:45:44.420 --> 00:45:47.480 I just think all churches need to have a real assessment. 00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:51.640 You need to have, you need to talk to every team in person, how they feel about your current 00:45:51.640 --> 00:45:52.060 CRM. 00:45:52.200 --> 00:45:53.420 Does it do what it needs to do? 00:45:53.900 --> 00:45:59.480 Like, just do a, just do an audit, an internal audit, and then make the change if it's not 00:45:59.480 --> 00:46:03.320 or hire the person to build the thing that needs to happen. 00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:08.160 Because I think there's a lot of people have built things for like check-in tools and stuff 00:46:08.160 --> 00:46:14.220 on Sunday, but I think like, like logged in experiences on your website or in your app 00:46:14.220 --> 00:46:16.640 for your CRM, not to be all integrated together. 00:46:16.640 --> 00:46:19.780 It's such a big, like, it's such a big disconnect. 00:46:20.500 --> 00:46:22.620 And there are things that do this all a carton. 00:46:22.700 --> 00:46:26.200 We all use services that they have a lot. 00:46:26.300 --> 00:46:28.000 This isn't a drastic technology. 00:46:28.000 --> 00:46:31.980 Like you can, you can go pay for like member full or something and you can do this. 00:46:31.980 --> 00:46:38.000 You can, this is a, this is, this is an easy thing to pull off, but here's the deal is that 00:46:38.000 --> 00:46:42.660 the CRM companies, you know, have to own the app company and have to own like the website 00:46:42.660 --> 00:46:43.100 company. 00:46:43.100 --> 00:46:46.420 And then sometimes all those things don't really like they don't, they don't work well. 00:46:46.480 --> 00:46:48.060 So I just think it's a little bit of a mess. 00:46:48.240 --> 00:46:53.440 There are things people are doing in this space, but you know, and, and, and there's, there's 00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:54.120 cons to it. 00:46:54.200 --> 00:47:00.320 So I just think personalization obviously is the no brainer word that has been for years, 00:47:00.320 --> 00:47:03.620 but I think for churches to do that, right. 00:47:04.340 --> 00:47:08.420 The techs, the technology deck has to all make sense. 00:47:08.420 --> 00:47:13.580 And I think some of the tools that exist for churches, at least the church tools aren't 00:47:13.580 --> 00:47:14.360 the greatest. 00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:15.600 They're very siloed. 00:47:15.820 --> 00:47:20.640 That's a, I'm probably just, I'm going to get an email from some CEO or something from 00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:26.140 this, but I just, I just think that it doesn't really serve the church of a hundred very well, 00:47:26.140 --> 00:47:29.040 you know, because you have to have an app company over here. 00:47:29.080 --> 00:47:31.840 You have to do this over here and they don't talk to each other. 00:47:32.300 --> 00:47:34.380 And it's like, why do I want an app? 00:47:34.420 --> 00:47:37.280 If it's not part, the whole reason for an app is to be super personal. 00:47:37.400 --> 00:47:39.660 And it's, and so, but yeah. 00:47:39.660 --> 00:47:44.480 For us and the good news for us, Jay, at least the Christ fellowship, our CRM is a company 00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:48.560 called one church and our app and everything is through that. 00:47:48.780 --> 00:47:52.540 And so it's created more of that experience for it so much so that when we talked about 00:47:52.540 --> 00:47:57.660 like creating that touchless experience, one of the things that we're able to unveil, you 00:47:57.660 --> 00:48:02.440 know, when we were reopening was kids check in via the app that they could scan, you know, 00:48:02.460 --> 00:48:05.520 they could check off their kids because it's logged into their account and they're giving 00:48:05.520 --> 00:48:06.960 is through the same thing and everything. 00:48:07.220 --> 00:48:09.780 And so for us, it's all underneath one temple. 00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:11.900 Now, was that easy to pull off? 00:48:12.040 --> 00:48:12.320 No. 00:48:12.540 --> 00:48:15.400 And I still have to go up to every ministry and remind them, nope, you're not going to do 00:48:15.400 --> 00:48:16.040 a Google form. 00:48:16.420 --> 00:48:18.620 It's going to go through our CRM. 00:48:18.700 --> 00:48:23.200 We're not going to create separate databases so much so that I'm even trying to like get 00:48:23.200 --> 00:48:24.800 us away in our, in our comms department. 00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:28.220 I'm trying to get us away from MailChimp because I'm trying to say, guys, that's a separate 00:48:28.220 --> 00:48:28.580 database. 00:48:28.580 --> 00:48:32.460 Like you're, you're over here collecting separate data that we can't come back and reevaluate 00:48:32.460 --> 00:48:35.560 and know who our people are and know how they're engaging with us. 00:48:35.560 --> 00:48:39.420 And so the toughest thing there is that we're not, you know, if we ever make that move, 00:48:39.560 --> 00:48:41.840 we're not going to get the same robust tools that MailChimp provides. 00:48:41.840 --> 00:48:43.600 Like, Hey, open rates or some of that other stuff. 00:48:43.660 --> 00:48:47.360 I know that our guys are like people at one church are working on some of that stuff in 00:48:47.360 --> 00:48:48.720 the background, but it's not there yet. 00:48:49.060 --> 00:48:53.440 And having the patience to get there is tough for an organization, especially if you at one 00:48:53.440 --> 00:48:54.960 point enjoyed some of those features. 00:48:55.460 --> 00:48:55.560 Yeah. 00:48:55.660 --> 00:48:56.000 That's it. 00:48:56.000 --> 00:48:58.520 It's funny that we had this, my team, same thing. 00:48:58.600 --> 00:49:02.680 We, we, we pay MailChimp a couple hundred dollars every month. 00:49:02.680 --> 00:49:04.580 I think it's like over 300 bucks every month. 00:49:04.920 --> 00:49:07.920 And it's a segmented experience and I had the exact same conversation. 00:49:07.920 --> 00:49:11.380 We need to move to this other system and it's just pain. 00:49:11.460 --> 00:49:15.460 And I had a conversation cause we, we use a, our church uses a big provider. 00:49:15.600 --> 00:49:19.180 I'm forgetting their name right now, but they have to, I go, they have to be able to do 00:49:19.180 --> 00:49:22.660 like automation stuff where I can add people to a list and trigger emails and stuff. 00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:25.920 And, but we had to like, it's just not enabled for us. 00:49:25.940 --> 00:49:30.040 So we have to like go through this, this process, but I'm like, and especially with like, you 00:49:30.040 --> 00:49:33.340 know, data and stuff, we're moving towards all the data needs to be stored one place. 00:49:33.340 --> 00:49:37.620 So if a member wants to be not contacted, we can't have all these multiple databases, 00:49:37.620 --> 00:49:42.160 which is something that is happening very quickly already happened in Europe, but here 00:49:42.160 --> 00:49:42.980 it's happening. 00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.500 And I, yeah, so we're, same thing. 00:49:45.560 --> 00:49:47.400 We're moving away from MailChimp, even though it does hurt me. 00:49:47.400 --> 00:49:48.600 Cause I really do like MailChimp. 00:49:48.940 --> 00:49:49.040 Yeah. 00:49:49.080 --> 00:49:52.900 I mean, it's got a lot of robust tools, but like you're saying it, when we have segmented 00:49:52.900 --> 00:49:56.740 data, that means that, you know, we can offend people real easily if they're trying 00:49:56.740 --> 00:50:01.320 to get out of our mail list or we can lose people within the gap, which is what happened 00:50:01.320 --> 00:50:04.100 more often than not was, oh man, there are people who fell through the cracks because 00:50:04.100 --> 00:50:06.500 their stuff was in one spot, not necessarily in the overall. 00:50:06.980 --> 00:50:07.120 Yeah. 00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:10.980 We could have this conversation all day long. 00:50:11.100 --> 00:50:17.220 We, maybe we need to dig into CRMs and CHMS church management solutions, software solutions 00:50:17.220 --> 00:50:19.160 at a later time. 00:50:19.240 --> 00:50:21.340 Honestly, that was like a, whoa, did that just happen? 00:50:21.700 --> 00:50:22.320 I love that. 00:50:22.380 --> 00:50:26.360 But, but it's true as we're looking to the future and even vendors that are, that are in 00:50:26.360 --> 00:50:28.380 that space, just like we're challenging churches. 00:50:28.820 --> 00:50:30.540 Hey, you've got to spend more budget here. 00:50:31.100 --> 00:50:36.540 Vendors realize there are a lot of churches that have a much higher expectation now today 00:50:36.540 --> 00:50:43.640 than they did technically digitally than they did in February, uh, 2019, um, uh, or 2020, 00:50:43.820 --> 00:50:44.160 excuse me. 00:50:44.220 --> 00:50:49.180 And so the more that we can pivot and go in that direction, um, as, as a vendor providing 00:50:49.180 --> 00:50:52.460 solutions like that churches be ready to experiment through stadia. 00:50:52.460 --> 00:50:57.640 We're actually running a number of experiments right now, utilizing software solutions that 00:50:57.640 --> 00:51:02.960 didn't exist pre COVID, uh, and, and starting to kick the tires on things like this. 00:51:03.040 --> 00:51:04.400 And altered live is one of those. 00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:08.800 And we'll be talking more about that later, but love, uh, what we're seeing now with some 00:51:08.800 --> 00:51:14.640 vendors and others follow soon, continue to help provide solutions for, for churches that 00:51:14.640 --> 00:51:18.720 are, that are looking at doing ministry in this next normal of what's ahead. 00:51:18.840 --> 00:51:24.020 So Jay, man, I have loved this time once again, and always love hanging out with you, even 00:51:24.020 --> 00:51:27.320 though you are a Lakers fan, but Hey, go, go LeBron, I guess, to some level. 00:51:27.820 --> 00:51:31.920 Uh, Hey, uh, Jay, as we're wrapping up, landing the plane here, any, any closing thoughts? 00:51:32.260 --> 00:51:38.200 Yeah, I really, the one thing that I would say that a bare minimum as, as a church, no matter 00:51:38.200 --> 00:51:44.560 your size, you really need to have somebody at the table, you know, that is thinking about 00:51:44.560 --> 00:51:48.860 your digital presence, um, and thinking just at least being an advocate for that community. 00:51:48.860 --> 00:51:51.880 That's something that I would tell it doesn't have to be staff. 00:51:51.940 --> 00:51:54.920 It could be a volunteer, but somebody that, as you're thinking through, you know, what does 00:51:54.920 --> 00:51:55.880 this mean for us digitally? 00:51:56.040 --> 00:51:59.580 So I, especially as we go back to meeting in person over the next, you know, a couple 00:51:59.580 --> 00:52:03.600 months, it's going to be really easy to gravitate back to like prioritizing the people 00:52:03.600 --> 00:52:09.140 of the room, which is okay, but you really need, um, to have somebody on the team. 00:52:09.140 --> 00:52:12.540 That's kind of just like reminding you kind of being the, you know, they're the pebble 00:52:12.540 --> 00:52:13.220 in your shoe. 00:52:13.280 --> 00:52:15.300 It's just kind of like saying, Hey, don't forget about us. 00:52:15.380 --> 00:52:18.980 We've got to think through what does this mean, um, for, for those of you in our online 00:52:18.980 --> 00:52:19.480 and so forth. 00:52:20.100 --> 00:52:20.360 Love that. 00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:24.260 I would echo that you got to have somebody who's thinking digital first, even if your 00:52:24.260 --> 00:52:27.720 church is not somebody where, where that's the priority piece to that. 00:52:27.800 --> 00:52:30.440 Hey, Ray, as we're wrapping up here, any closing thoughts? 00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:35.320 Yeah, I completely agree with Jay in that somebody has to be at the table being the 00:52:35.320 --> 00:52:38.980 advocate for this, um, and lead pastor, it's a top down deal. 00:52:38.980 --> 00:52:43.140 And so make sure that you are continually pushing and thinking through digital as you're 00:52:43.140 --> 00:52:46.740 crafting your message, as you're thinking through next steps, think about those digital 00:52:46.740 --> 00:52:47.560 next steps too. 00:52:47.680 --> 00:52:48.820 Are you going to have a text code? 00:52:48.820 --> 00:52:50.760 Are you going to move people to an online form? 00:52:50.880 --> 00:52:51.920 How are you going to do that? 00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:54.680 Because more and more, and especially as we reopen, right? 00:52:54.680 --> 00:52:56.320 So Jeff talked about that one church. 00:52:56.440 --> 00:53:01.960 If 80% of your folks are out there watching it digitally, think of them first, no offense to 00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:05.940 the people in the room, but think of those 80, that 80% first, because it could be your 00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:09.560 mom, could be your aunt, your uncle, but think of that person that's behind the camera and 00:53:09.560 --> 00:53:14.380 how you are crafting everything and even guiding them and discipling them through every area of 00:53:14.380 --> 00:53:14.820 your ministry. 00:53:15.340 --> 00:53:15.420 Yeah. 00:53:15.540 --> 00:53:20.720 I would echo that even as you're thinking about what those next steps are digitally, try to 00:53:20.720 --> 00:53:25.340 figure out what discipleship means for you in digital space. 00:53:25.380 --> 00:53:26.220 Is that small groups? 00:53:26.640 --> 00:53:29.520 Is there something where it's more equipping, uh, training? 00:53:29.720 --> 00:53:34.740 Alpha has been doing some phenomenal things in evangelism, others as, as well in this season, 00:53:34.880 --> 00:53:39.760 have an intentional approach towards what those next steps are digitally, just the same level 00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:40.700 that you would physically. 00:53:40.940 --> 00:53:42.100 And it's, it's amazing. 00:53:42.100 --> 00:53:46.140 Even though people are not in your building, you could be growing them spiritually to the 00:53:46.140 --> 00:53:51.980 place where they can be mobilized and released where, where you can help equip them to do ministry 00:53:51.980 --> 00:53:58.580 instead of sitting on a chair in a big building, consuming a product, release them out to do 00:53:58.580 --> 00:53:59.840 ministry. 00:53:59.840 --> 00:54:02.520 So phenomenal concepts for 2021, excited for what's ahead. 00:54:02.920 --> 00:54:11.260 Hey, so we're going to land a plane right here for Jay, for Ray, for the NBA 2021 season. 00:54:11.420 --> 00:54:12.180 We're looking ahead. 00:54:12.740 --> 00:54:13.240 Go Lakers. 00:54:13.380 --> 00:54:13.840 That's weird. 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:14.380 Miami Heat. 00:54:14.460 --> 00:54:16.080 Maybe we're going to wrap up here. 00:54:16.160 --> 00:54:18.720 This is Jeff with the church digital and stated church planning. 00:54:18.860 --> 00:54:19.680 Thanks for joining us. 00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:21.360 We'll see you next time here at the pod. 00:54:21.440 --> 00:54:21.960 Y'all have a good day.