WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.940 Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I, Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with you, churches that are out there. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:23.360 One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering through Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:31.780 We want to help you, we want to help your church learn to thrive, grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:38.320 We've seen about 200 churches go through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it. 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.620 Culture is changing within these churches. 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:42.720 They're understanding what it is to thrive. 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:52.500 They're understanding how to grow people, how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season. 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:58.460 And they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. 00:00:58.620 --> 00:01:01.880 There's no secret sauce to doing a digital strategy. 00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:04.940 There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.960 There's no secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:10.760 It takes work. 00:01:10.820 --> 00:01:11.660 I'm not going to lie. 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:16.680 But through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities, we connect you with churches. 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:17.940 We give you some content. 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:31.740 We coach you along the way to help you make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply your church along the way. 00:01:31.960 --> 00:01:34.080 This is a great opportunity for your church. 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:35.500 We would love to have you be a part of it. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:40.920 For more information, check out stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.260 Stadiachurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:47.820 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:48.500 All right. 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:49.320 Hey, that's it. 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:51.240 We're going to get you back to that episode right now. 00:01:51.780 --> 00:01:52.240 All right, church. 00:01:52.300 --> 00:01:54.700 This is going to be an interesting conversation today. 00:01:54.700 --> 00:01:56.060 We're going to get into DeLoreans. 00:01:56.140 --> 00:01:57.480 We're going to be very future-minded. 00:01:57.800 --> 00:02:00.360 We're going to be looking at what's to come. 00:02:00.780 --> 00:02:02.820 Hey, Jeff here with the Church at Digital Podcast. 00:02:03.120 --> 00:02:06.320 Once again, it's powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:02:06.780 --> 00:02:08.300 Love working with this organization. 00:02:08.440 --> 00:02:19.800 Just celebrated my one-year anniversary just recently, and it has been awesome helping churches and church plants go fidgetal, plant digital-only expressions of church. 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:31.180 We're going to be talking more about that in the coming weeks, but love what's happening and the innovation that we're seeing out of Stadia here today, and I love what's coming down the road. 00:02:31.260 --> 00:02:36.220 Hey, so speaking of coming down the road, let's pivot here, and let's talk about this episode. 00:02:36.840 --> 00:02:38.100 Here's where we are, church. 00:02:38.480 --> 00:02:49.240 Just if we really look at the reality of the situation, we are creating strategies in real time for our churches to digital ministry effectively. 00:02:49.460 --> 00:02:58.760 And we're utilizing it on borrowed platforms like YouTube, on borrowed platforms like Facebook, like most of social media. 00:02:58.860 --> 00:03:09.640 Now, I'm saying borrowed, and what I essentially mean by that is, church, we don't own the property that we're doing the ministry on, at least in the digital perspective. 00:03:09.740 --> 00:03:10.880 We don't own YouTube. 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:12.980 We don't control YouTube. 00:03:13.280 --> 00:03:14.320 We don't control Facebook. 00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:17.540 It's interesting, with Facebook, everything's with an algorithm. 00:03:17.540 --> 00:03:25.040 So we even post something up there, and the people who are following us may or may not see it based upon how the algorithm behaves. 00:03:25.840 --> 00:03:34.660 And it's interesting, in this COVID season, even paralleling it a little bit here, the physical multi-site churches, physical multi-site churches. 00:03:34.840 --> 00:03:41.120 I was at a church that actually launched a multi-site church two, three, four months before COVID hit. 00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:52.940 And then when COVID swept through, the landlord that we were renting the property from for that multi-site to exist, he ripped up the lease and said, it's no longer valid. 00:03:53.180 --> 00:03:54.920 You're not welcome here. 00:03:55.440 --> 00:03:58.360 It was the right decision, mind you. 00:03:58.940 --> 00:04:03.140 But what was interesting was, we didn't have, the church didn't have a choice in that situation. 00:04:03.600 --> 00:04:09.620 We no longer have the option, the opportunity to do ministry in that space. 00:04:10.500 --> 00:04:16.580 And my fear is, church, and hear me, I don't want to be like the controversial guy. 00:04:16.740 --> 00:04:20.860 I'm not trying to like be all prophetic or anything like that, gloom and doom. 00:04:21.380 --> 00:04:31.520 But I think there's a time coming when we, the church, we're not going to be able to do the ministry on the Facebooks, on YouTube maybe even. 00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:43.900 And I think there's an importance here, really, if we are looking future-minded at where, at least where I think culture is going and how it intersects with, you know, the church. 00:04:44.440 --> 00:04:50.980 I think it's important that we own our platforms, or at least that we have understanding towards owning those platforms. 00:04:51.380 --> 00:04:59.260 And so where we're broadcasting to, where we're connecting with, it's great that we're able to utilize the Facebooks and the YouTubes. 00:04:59.260 --> 00:05:04.400 And I don't want to give away the conversation, but I think it's important that we have some other hurdles. 00:05:04.680 --> 00:05:07.100 We have some other options in place. 00:05:07.220 --> 00:05:16.100 Otherwise, that mad dash of March 2020, when everybody's trying to figure out how to broadcast online, I really think that's coming again. 00:05:16.640 --> 00:05:26.700 When we're trying to figure out how to broadcast online, when the Facebooks and the YouTubes and some of those other organizations, you know, won't let us broadcast on their platforms. 00:05:26.700 --> 00:05:32.060 Now, I get it. I probably sound like a religious nutjob, a zealot, you know, some of those things. 00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:35.280 And honestly, if you know me, hopefully, you know I'm not. 00:05:35.380 --> 00:05:37.080 My track record, I think, would speak to that. 00:05:37.400 --> 00:05:44.540 But I think it's still something that we should be looking at and aware of and planning for how to overcome these. 00:05:44.620 --> 00:05:46.280 And so this is what the conversation is. 00:05:46.780 --> 00:05:53.460 We're bringing in Colin Jones, who's president and CEO of Resi, used to be living as one. 00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.200 And so Colin has been a great friend and supporter of the Church Digital over the years. 00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:09.200 And when I'm thinking about, hey, how do we own our platform, Colin's the first guy that came to mind, just because that's the heart of how he's building and designing his company, Resi. 00:06:09.360 --> 00:06:15.620 We're also bringing in Ray DeArmis, digital pastor over at Christ Fellowship Miami, and co-host once again. 00:06:16.020 --> 00:06:19.080 Jeff with the Church Digital, myself, and Stadia Church Planning. 00:06:19.580 --> 00:06:23.000 In a conversation that I'm simply calling, owning your platform. 00:06:23.520 --> 00:06:24.160 Okay, everybody. 00:06:24.580 --> 00:06:25.000 Here you go. 00:06:25.580 --> 00:06:30.960 You know, even just kind of to open up, you've transitioned from living as one to Resi. 00:06:31.440 --> 00:06:32.740 Maybe why? 00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:34.620 How has that transition gone? 00:06:35.580 --> 00:06:42.660 You know, what has it been like kind of transitioning the company, the marketing, all that shifting over towards the different approach? 00:06:43.100 --> 00:06:43.880 Yeah, it's been great. 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:49.180 You know, we had a lot of credibility issues when we're just like a faith-branded company. 00:06:49.580 --> 00:06:59.420 That now are removed, which is great because we have the world's best video engineers, but that wasn't seen in the front because most times, faith companies, they really don't spend enough on engineering, right? 00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:00.300 Because they don't have the resources. 00:07:00.980 --> 00:07:12.580 And Resi has always been someone, you know, we're the only mainstreaming writer that hasn't gone down during Corona because we have all of these insane, you know, developers and standards that we set with that because of our mission, right? 00:07:12.600 --> 00:07:14.000 So our mission is very much the same. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:15.120 It's the John 17. 00:07:15.940 --> 00:07:18.620 We're, you know, we're doing communications worldwide, right? 00:07:18.620 --> 00:07:20.380 With millions and millions and millions of viewers. 00:07:20.660 --> 00:07:25.740 We're now the largest streamer to Facebook and by Watchmen, it's a church online platform and all of those things. 00:07:26.240 --> 00:07:27.920 And so now it's about stewarding the audience. 00:07:28.120 --> 00:07:30.300 And so like our main mission was to unite the global church. 00:07:30.580 --> 00:07:31.500 It still is today. 00:07:31.600 --> 00:07:35.560 We just believe the best way to do that is by having a lot of corporate customers as well. 00:07:36.480 --> 00:07:40.060 However, the kind of the heart of the company hasn't changed at all. 00:07:40.220 --> 00:07:41.980 And so, yeah, it's only been a good thing. 00:07:42.080 --> 00:07:47.920 I think, you know, the people kind of expected it and were like, this probably should have happened 10 years ago or two years ago. 00:07:48.680 --> 00:07:52.380 And which Jeff has been telling me that we should probably do that, you know, for a long time too. 00:07:52.720 --> 00:07:55.220 Living as one definitely felt like that dating service, right? 00:07:55.340 --> 00:07:58.400 You know, it's like this completely, oh, you do video streams. 00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:59.320 Oh, that's nice. 00:07:59.420 --> 00:08:03.600 And I actually, and I want to give testimony here and Colin hasn't paid me to say this. 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:10.940 We, on a side, I help some churches here in South Florida area figure out how to do broadcasting, the technical aspects. 00:08:10.940 --> 00:08:14.480 And I've got guys that kind of serve along with me, just serving the church. 00:08:14.820 --> 00:08:20.760 And so there's one particular church that maybe eight, nine months ago in the middle of COVID season asked for a video upgrade. 00:08:21.000 --> 00:08:25.040 And so we went in there, helped them with the technical aspects and designed the system for them. 00:08:25.040 --> 00:08:30.240 But one of the things that we did, we wanted to upgrade them from the system they were using to living as one. 00:08:30.360 --> 00:08:32.120 Like, I don't think it was resi at the point. 00:08:32.180 --> 00:08:33.660 It was the living as one system, same thing. 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:37.320 And they were like, no, we want to cut budget. 00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:38.720 We're okay with what we have. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.000 And true testimony here. 00:08:41.160 --> 00:08:50.860 I specifically said to the lead pastor, you will come back around in six months and you will say, hey, yeah, we do want to go ahead and get the resi in here. 00:08:51.380 --> 00:08:52.780 And so it was funny. 00:08:52.780 --> 00:08:58.860 It was almost five, six months later, that church did call back around and said, hey, we do want to upgrade. 00:08:58.980 --> 00:09:00.040 We have had failures. 00:09:00.180 --> 00:09:04.180 And so the product stability of what's coming out of resi is phenomenal. 00:09:04.180 --> 00:09:10.600 So super excited of what they're doing and the friendship that we've had with Colin over the years. 00:09:10.600 --> 00:09:23.120 Because it's right, like, man, the stability of it has been phenomenal in this season where lots of other systems are failing and crashing under the weight of just all the traffic of the church season. 00:09:23.320 --> 00:09:25.640 Like, the investment of resi has been solid. 00:09:25.860 --> 00:09:26.900 All right, so commercial over. 00:09:27.360 --> 00:09:29.740 Let's segue into this. 00:09:29.740 --> 00:09:39.520 So, like, a lot of my concern here with the conversation, I'm trying to even figure out how to start this. 00:09:39.640 --> 00:09:51.860 But when I look at the potential of what we're, at least what we're currently doing with Church Online, I get this feeling that we're utilizing a lot of borrowed platforms. 00:09:51.960 --> 00:09:54.820 Platforms that we don't necessarily have control over. 00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:56.520 And this may be a good thing. 00:09:56.560 --> 00:09:58.040 In some contexts, it may be a bad thing. 00:09:58.080 --> 00:09:59.020 And this is really one to explore. 00:09:59.200 --> 00:10:01.680 Like, we're broadcasting on Facebook. 00:10:02.380 --> 00:10:05.500 But, you know, and Ray struggles with this all the time. 00:10:06.060 --> 00:10:17.040 The lead communicator wants to show some sort of a movie clip or a clip of a music video that Facebook's going to, you know, say, the DRM's going to say, no, you don't have the ability to do that. 00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:18.360 And it's cut. 00:10:18.520 --> 00:10:19.460 He's blacklisted. 00:10:19.560 --> 00:10:22.300 And if he does it too many times, he's, like, not allowed to go on. 00:10:22.580 --> 00:10:28.180 The funny thing is, like, Ray and Ray's leadership, they want to pay for the rights to do it. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.900 It's not like they don't want to pay for it. 00:10:30.940 --> 00:10:32.640 There's just, there's no option too. 00:10:33.060 --> 00:10:34.580 And you can say same things about YouTube. 00:10:34.740 --> 00:10:38.400 I think YouTube's more insert commercials friendly as opposed to the other. 00:10:38.520 --> 00:10:41.860 But both of them kind of control what's happening. 00:10:42.420 --> 00:10:48.800 Even in context of who has accessibility to watch it, the algorithms may or may not be fighting against you. 00:10:48.800 --> 00:10:54.960 And really, we, the church, we've lost control over a lot of these things. 00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:59.380 And so, man, I'm even struggling a little bit as I see churches who have pivoted. 00:10:59.480 --> 00:11:03.720 Like, we went from 10% to, like, 70% of churches are broadcasting online now. 00:11:04.360 --> 00:11:08.660 But we're doing so on platforms that we don't control. 00:11:08.900 --> 00:11:11.360 I mean, what are some other kind of negativity? 00:11:11.540 --> 00:11:16.100 What are some struggles, challenges with broadcasting our services on these borrowed platforms? 00:11:16.460 --> 00:11:19.000 But yeah, and the question really is twofold. 00:11:19.160 --> 00:11:21.940 You know, you've got your own audience to steward, right? 00:11:22.380 --> 00:11:26.640 And you've got, you know, obviously, you're a church already and you have people that are attending, right? 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:28.140 For the majority of people listening. 00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:30.480 And you're sending them to these platforms, right? 00:11:30.520 --> 00:11:31.300 And so then there's that. 00:11:31.620 --> 00:11:33.640 And then there's also the standpoint of the growth story. 00:11:33.760 --> 00:11:35.900 There's all these people that you want to reach that are on the internet, right? 00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:37.440 A lot of them are on social media. 00:11:37.760 --> 00:11:39.000 A lot of them are Googling. 00:11:39.120 --> 00:11:41.820 A lot of them, you know, there's all of these kind of different destinations, right? 00:11:42.360 --> 00:11:48.720 And so when we, I think more so the question becomes, what is our strategy for long-term retention and growth, right? 00:11:48.740 --> 00:11:56.480 And then how do we let, you know, how these platforms see the world and how we see the world and how do we interact with that and make strategic decisions out of that? 00:11:56.580 --> 00:11:58.400 So I think there's a lot to that question. 00:11:58.500 --> 00:12:04.100 Like the first one is, you know, I think we've had a ton of questions from it since, you know, Parler got taken down, right? 00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:08.060 And it wasn't about the politics of it or anything like that. 00:12:08.180 --> 00:12:12.240 It was, I think, kind of eye-opening and like, whoa, we could be taken down, right? 00:12:12.660 --> 00:12:18.660 Like where we built our entire audience from, in the snap of a finger, we could have zero, right? 00:12:19.320 --> 00:12:20.460 Because it's not, we don't own it. 00:12:20.520 --> 00:12:21.140 It's not our platform. 00:12:21.660 --> 00:12:23.340 And it's not even the social media. 00:12:23.500 --> 00:12:24.520 It's, you know, AWS. 00:12:24.960 --> 00:12:29.300 So like the, which is like why Parler is still not up today, right? 00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:31.040 And so they don't even have an app store. 00:12:31.100 --> 00:12:36.720 It was the app stores, it was the CDN, you know, it was the, which CDN is Content Delivery 00:12:36.720 --> 00:12:38.680 Network, it's who actually posts their content. 00:12:38.800 --> 00:12:42.560 So there's, there's wires and servers behind all of this stuff that we're doing today. 00:12:42.740 --> 00:12:47.360 And there's only a few of those providers in the world that house most of the data going 00:12:47.360 --> 00:12:47.840 through the internet. 00:12:48.280 --> 00:12:52.840 AWS being probably the biggest one, or definitely the biggest one, they took them down as well. 00:12:52.840 --> 00:12:57.620 So it wasn't only, you know, Google and, you know, all of those, you know, Android 00:12:57.620 --> 00:13:02.380 and then, you know, Apple, but it was also the CDN providers behind that. 00:13:02.520 --> 00:13:04.820 And I think some Russian companies, which is awkward. 00:13:04.940 --> 00:13:08.980 But so if we think about, you know, Facebook, YouTube, those are, you know, Instagram, where 00:13:08.980 --> 00:13:11.100 do people stream their messages and where's content from? 00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:16.320 What we always have encouraged churches to do is build your own experience online, right? 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.860 With things like church online platform and, you know, Resi powering that because Resi is 00:13:20.860 --> 00:13:21.500 a faith company. 00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:25.140 We're actually going multi-clied now because of this problem, right? 00:13:25.340 --> 00:13:28.600 Of like, well, we won't, if a CDN takes us down, it won't affect us. 00:13:28.940 --> 00:13:29.340 Who cares? 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:35.540 And so, however, like streams still to the social medias, obviously there's a ton of benefit 00:13:35.540 --> 00:13:35.840 from that. 00:13:35.920 --> 00:13:37.980 Just try to transfer your audience to something that you own. 00:13:38.220 --> 00:13:42.000 And you have the two competing ideas that me and Ray and Jeff talked about earlier, which 00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.820 is probably a good thing that the next one is like, you know, do you want to own your 00:13:45.820 --> 00:13:47.460 own audience or do you want to reach people? 00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:51.320 And I think there's a way to do both really well, but that's kind of the fight here of, 00:13:51.380 --> 00:13:53.380 you know, normally you have the triangle of you can only pick two. 00:13:53.520 --> 00:13:57.880 This is like, you know, you have two, you can probably do a hybrid of them, but that's 00:13:57.880 --> 00:13:59.600 the rub is like, Hey, I want to be on YouTube. 00:13:59.960 --> 00:14:01.340 I want to be where all the people are. 00:14:01.420 --> 00:14:02.200 I want to be on Facebook. 00:14:02.300 --> 00:14:04.500 I want to be on Instagram where all the people are, right? 00:14:04.500 --> 00:14:05.220 I need to grow. 00:14:05.780 --> 00:14:07.420 But where do you sustain your audience? 00:14:07.520 --> 00:14:08.640 And I think that can be different. 00:14:08.900 --> 00:14:09.860 That's very helpful, Colin. 00:14:09.860 --> 00:14:11.840 Now, a quick question for both of you. 00:14:12.220 --> 00:14:16.620 Is this something new or has this always been the case? 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:17.700 You know what I'm saying? 00:14:17.760 --> 00:14:19.780 With utilizing somebody else's platform. 00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:24.320 Because I, you know, for, for my aunts and uncles and for family members that are new 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.740 to tech that, you know, they're all in an uproar and they're like, Hey, you know, we 00:14:27.740 --> 00:14:28.580 feel like this is wrong. 00:14:28.680 --> 00:14:32.580 And I'm like, welcome to me. 00:14:33.100 --> 00:14:34.760 It doesn't feel so new. 00:14:34.760 --> 00:14:40.040 So give me some of your perspectives on this in terms of how platforms use the user term 00:14:40.040 --> 00:14:42.240 agreements, you know, against their own users in some ways. 00:14:42.740 --> 00:14:42.840 Sure. 00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:43.080 Yeah. 00:14:43.100 --> 00:14:46.240 And you really have to think about, you know, you have the user agreements and you have what 00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:47.900 their, you know, PR, right? 00:14:47.920 --> 00:14:51.540 So if you're a social media company, if you're a CDN, the way that you think about the world 00:14:51.540 --> 00:14:54.220 is whatever makes me the most money for my shareholders long-term, right? 00:14:54.520 --> 00:14:58.120 And so no matter what mission statement that they have, that's what it is, right? 00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:03.260 And so if you think about it from a Facebook, YouTube, Vimeo, any streaming company provider 00:15:03.260 --> 00:15:06.920 out there, you've got to ask the question, first of all, what is their motivation high 00:15:06.920 --> 00:15:07.480 level, right? 00:15:07.660 --> 00:15:10.280 And it's to make the most money over the long period of time, right? 00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:11.680 For all of those organizations, right? 00:15:11.940 --> 00:15:16.300 And then you've got to ask, will it ever be at odds with what I'm doing, right? 00:15:16.340 --> 00:15:20.180 And so with Facebook and YouTube, if Parler asked that question, right? 00:15:20.180 --> 00:15:24.860 Or any of those other kind of Google, et cetera, basically what Facebook and YouTube decided 00:15:24.860 --> 00:15:29.200 was that we will make less, we will make more money over time because of the PR problems 00:15:29.200 --> 00:15:30.240 by taking them down, right? 00:15:30.240 --> 00:15:33.820 And there's also some safety and all that, that I don't, you know, no arguing about, right? 00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:34.620 That they argued for. 00:15:34.940 --> 00:15:37.640 But essentially, that's what these platforms are asking the question of every day. 00:15:37.820 --> 00:15:42.940 Is do I make more money by, you know, how they make money is driven by public perception, 00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:43.240 right? 00:15:43.260 --> 00:15:44.040 And public usage. 00:15:44.520 --> 00:15:50.420 And so do I have more customers that I would gain or keep from taking these people down than 00:15:50.420 --> 00:15:52.540 I would lose from taking them down, right? 00:15:52.560 --> 00:15:53.820 And that's the question that they're asking. 00:15:54.600 --> 00:15:58.760 And so I think like, and then you have the user agreements that back that up, right? 00:15:58.760 --> 00:16:02.180 Basically, the way that the user agreements are written, people can take you down for anything. 00:16:02.520 --> 00:16:04.360 Anything they deem hateful, it's very subjective. 00:16:04.980 --> 00:16:09.220 It's the same way with, you know, Facebook's user agreement, Vimeo's, you know, any different 00:16:09.220 --> 00:16:09.640 company. 00:16:10.140 --> 00:16:15.240 It's very scary to read that stuff because there's no assurance, no assurances, right? 00:16:15.360 --> 00:16:15.600 Zero. 00:16:16.240 --> 00:16:19.440 It's basically, you know, that problem that we talked to, if they think that for some reason 00:16:19.440 --> 00:16:21.220 they can make more money by taking it down, they will. 00:16:22.340 --> 00:16:25.440 And, and the user agreements are their support to that. 00:16:26.340 --> 00:16:28.960 And yeah, are very scary to read. 00:16:29.020 --> 00:16:32.500 We've had a lot of people, you know, comment on the user agreements and the different things 00:16:32.500 --> 00:16:34.460 that, you know, we, nobody ever reads them anymore. 00:16:34.840 --> 00:16:36.640 And what you're agreeing to is quite big. 00:16:36.660 --> 00:16:39.480 And you had an experience, you know, that you just talked about is in person. 00:16:40.560 --> 00:16:43.440 But, you know, we're, the user agreement saved your, your world, right? 00:16:43.520 --> 00:16:45.160 And so they're, they're actually pretty important things. 00:16:45.380 --> 00:16:45.460 Yeah. 00:16:45.780 --> 00:16:47.280 That's absolutely, that's absolutely the case. 00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:51.000 So for those of you who don't know, I was, Colin and I were having a conversation before 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:52.380 we started recording the podcast. 00:16:52.380 --> 00:16:55.320 And we were, we were kind of talking about how this kind of thing happened. 00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:00.120 I, before I became the online pastor at Christ Fellowship, I launched a physical campus and 00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:04.520 we rented a government owned building and, you know, we were going through the manager. 00:17:04.660 --> 00:17:09.480 We didn't think anything of it until the local municipal government got wind of the fact 00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:13.880 that a church was meeting in one of their facilities and, and they didn't like that. 00:17:13.980 --> 00:17:18.060 And so it's not that they were trying to toss us, but they turned down other religious 00:17:18.060 --> 00:17:20.420 organizations for some of their other facilities. 00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:22.440 And so they wanted to revisit our deal. 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:26.640 And if it weren't for the manager of that particular facility, we might have been gone. 00:17:26.780 --> 00:17:30.540 Our campus, which is still meeting there, by the way, might have been gone. 00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:34.460 And we have a very unique deal that says, and it's in the, it's in the fine print of the 00:17:34.460 --> 00:17:40.360 con of the contract that only Christ Fellowship can rent from this particular facility as a 00:17:40.360 --> 00:17:41.260 result of all this. 00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:46.180 Because we were grandfathered in by God's grace and God's grace alone, because it would have 00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:48.160 been very easy and they would have been within their right. 00:17:48.620 --> 00:17:50.180 We don't own the facility. 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:54.680 It's their facility, but because it's a very public facility, much in the same way as YouTube 00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:56.660 and Facebook are very public platforms. 00:17:56.800 --> 00:18:02.740 It enabled us to reach a bunch of people that we normally wouldn't reach having, being inside 00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:04.100 a church building that's separate. 00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:08.540 You know, we're talking about a theater that's there on a very public avenue, a very public 00:18:08.540 --> 00:18:10.560 street in the midst of Miami. 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:14.880 And so it enabled us evangelistically to reach people that we would have never reached before, 00:18:14.880 --> 00:18:20.400 but at the same time, because it's not owned, because it wasn't property of Christ Fellowship, 00:18:20.400 --> 00:18:24.460 we would have been subject to whatever the owner deems of us. 00:18:24.800 --> 00:18:24.940 Right. 00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:25.520 Exactly. 00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:28.480 And the government was saying, hey, wait, it's not worth the risk. 00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:33.240 The gain of this however many thousand dollars a month is not worth the risk of the public 00:18:33.240 --> 00:18:33.660 perception. 00:18:33.880 --> 00:18:36.520 So then they came back to you and said, hey, you got to get out of here. 00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.700 And then the contract saved you. 00:18:37.760 --> 00:18:37.900 Right. 00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:38.840 Absolutely. 00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:41.620 And I think, you know, you have people on different sides of the issue. 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:46.180 I think that, you know, the thing that got it, you know, you have Christians that, you 00:18:46.180 --> 00:18:50.220 know, would say that, you know, there was no hate speech going on and therefore they shouldn't 00:18:50.220 --> 00:18:51.080 have been taken down. 00:18:51.420 --> 00:18:51.720 Right. 00:18:51.760 --> 00:18:54.900 And then you have Christians that say there was hate speech going on. 00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:56.000 That's why they took them down. 00:18:56.280 --> 00:18:57.600 I shouldn't be worried about censorship. 00:18:57.600 --> 00:19:02.580 And then you have, you know, non-believers say these crazy Christians, you know, they were 00:19:02.580 --> 00:19:05.380 doing some crazy stuff and then they, you know, why would they be worried about 00:19:05.380 --> 00:19:05.560 that? 00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:06.620 And it really turns them off. 00:19:06.700 --> 00:19:06.840 Right. 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:10.980 And so I think it's a divisive issue in our world of this censorship deal. 00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:19.960 And, you know, I think in general, you know, you have the churches that you like, don't 00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:23.080 care about censorship at all, care about reaching people, which I think is a really good thing. 00:19:23.120 --> 00:19:24.760 And they probably should care a little bit more about censorship. 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:27.880 And then you have just because, you know, we want to keep their audience over time. 00:19:28.040 --> 00:19:28.180 Right. 00:19:28.320 --> 00:19:32.440 Make sure that they never have potential to do that because of maybe what Christianity on 00:19:32.440 --> 00:19:33.300 the other side does. 00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:33.620 Right. 00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:36.300 Because it's still the same Christianity as the world perceives it. 00:19:36.900 --> 00:19:42.020 And then we have people on the other side of the boat that, you know, are, you know, 00:19:42.020 --> 00:19:47.580 scared that, you know, what they could potentially say or do or whatever could be construed as 00:19:47.580 --> 00:19:51.620 hateful or, you know, whatever it's written in their master user agreement that they would 00:19:51.620 --> 00:19:53.100 actually be taken down at some point. 00:19:53.160 --> 00:19:53.360 Right. 00:19:53.740 --> 00:19:55.300 And I think you have those two kind of buckets. 00:19:56.300 --> 00:19:59.900 And so, yeah, Jeff, we'd love to get your perspective as you're thinking on online. 00:20:00.080 --> 00:20:04.020 Obviously, you have, you know, tons of different churches that you relate with, and you're helping 00:20:04.020 --> 00:20:06.620 them do content online and so many different platforms. 00:20:06.820 --> 00:20:06.960 Right. 00:20:07.480 --> 00:20:11.500 And so kind of what point of the organization do you think like, hey, I'm planning to diversify 00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:15.040 my platforms or like, you know, obviously for a big church, that's obvious. 00:20:15.300 --> 00:20:15.500 Right. 00:20:15.540 --> 00:20:19.360 But for a smaller one that's starting, you know, what would you say in like diversification 00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:21.480 of platforms or how to manage their audience? 00:20:21.780 --> 00:20:26.620 Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't think it's time to abandon ship on the, on the rented platforms 00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:34.200 and hear me like the, the Facebook has a huge win utilizing it, but it's understanding the 00:20:34.200 --> 00:20:38.080 purpose of that platform and maybe utilizing it in a different way. 00:20:38.580 --> 00:20:44.560 Broadcasting a 70 minute service on Facebook is probably not going to get you the, the end 00:20:44.560 --> 00:20:49.120 game result of, of getting your, getting in front of ones, getting in front of people who 00:20:49.120 --> 00:20:54.680 are, are called to Christ having that shareable product, um, which is, I think the strength 00:20:54.680 --> 00:20:56.400 of, of what Facebook could be. 00:20:56.400 --> 00:21:03.120 And so, um, utilizing it for its strengths, uh, I think what would be a plus now you're, 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:08.780 you're 99, uh, the people who are loyal to your church right now, they are watching the 00:21:08.780 --> 00:21:10.140 services on Facebook. 00:21:10.740 --> 00:21:18.420 Um, but now like in, in Ray's situation where he's trying to show a clip of, of a video, 00:21:18.420 --> 00:21:23.740 or maybe we're concerned about censorship or, or getting removed from those platforms down 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:28.100 the road and not being able to communicate with our 99, which was similar to what was happening 00:21:28.100 --> 00:21:32.360 March, 2020, where churches were afraid they weren't going to be able to effectively communicate 00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:40.560 with the 99, you know, it's, let's have a separate platform that we control more aggressively that, 00:21:40.620 --> 00:21:41.220 that does that. 00:21:41.340 --> 00:21:45.660 And, and so that's where I look at like what, what Rezzy is offering, linking in with the 00:21:45.660 --> 00:21:46.620 church online platform. 00:21:46.620 --> 00:21:50.620 And we're seeing some other solutions other than church online come up. 00:21:50.740 --> 00:21:55.540 Alter Live is an incredible resource that, that we've been, Stadia, we've been working more 00:21:55.540 --> 00:21:59.920 closely with and doing some experiments with, you know, I know Colin and the Rezzy guys have 00:21:59.920 --> 00:22:01.740 been working, uh, with them as well. 00:22:01.800 --> 00:22:08.180 And so there are opportunities here, I think to, to own your digital house, so to speak, 00:22:08.340 --> 00:22:10.380 where you control what's happening there. 00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:15.740 Um, you know, and, and the good thing about like, uh, church online platform, the good thing 00:22:15.740 --> 00:22:21.520 about Alter Live is, is that those platforms are more designed to get people connected into 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:25.920 discipleship, get people connected into, into ministry, get people connected into whatever 00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:27.260 the next step is for the church. 00:22:27.260 --> 00:22:34.300 And so it's utilizing Facebook for its strength of, of evangelism, of getting out in front of 00:22:34.300 --> 00:22:37.920 people, but not letting Facebook be the only thing. 00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:43.200 Like for me, when, when a church says, the only thing I do is broadcast on Facebook, I'm 00:22:43.200 --> 00:22:49.140 fearful for them because for me, they're putting all the eggs into that one basket. 00:22:49.580 --> 00:22:56.720 Assuming that Facebook as the big tech organization is going to play fair and maybe they will for 00:22:56.720 --> 00:23:00.800 a season, but there's a day where they're not, there's a day where something's going to 00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:04.740 change, whether it's nefarious or they're just doing what they think is best for their 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:05.320 organization. 00:23:05.940 --> 00:23:10.000 And because we don't have any control over that platform, we, the church is going to be 00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:10.420 stuck. 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:13.060 And I would much rather, you know, okay. 00:23:13.140 --> 00:23:13.300 Yeah. 00:23:13.340 --> 00:23:18.880 So I'm using Facebook for, uh, evangelism purposes for getting content in front of others. 00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:23.000 I would rather just have to adjust that small part of my strategy. 00:23:24.000 --> 00:23:24.440 Okay. 00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.540 I need to figure out a better way to do evangelism. 00:23:26.600 --> 00:23:28.580 By the way, there are better ways to do evangelism digitally. 00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:33.280 I just need to figure out that little piece better instead of, oh my gosh, I'm back at 00:23:33.280 --> 00:23:34.080 square one. 00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:39.640 It's back like February, 2020, where I have no digital infrastructure because Facebook took 00:23:39.640 --> 00:23:41.180 it all away from me. 00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:46.120 So that, I mean, that's the heart is sort of this like diversification in this season 00:23:46.120 --> 00:23:51.820 and trying to figure out how to get, um, the different platforms to work towards the 00:23:51.820 --> 00:23:52.400 strategy. 00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:53.860 What do you guys think about that? 00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:54.400 Yeah. 00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:57.780 And I'm happy to share what some of our customers are doing that I think is really effective. 00:23:57.980 --> 00:23:59.480 And Ray talked about this earlier. 00:23:59.500 --> 00:24:01.480 Is this, is this a new problem, right? 00:24:01.600 --> 00:24:05.100 Is this, is this because censorship and the stuff, or is this problem always been there 00:24:05.100 --> 00:24:06.240 for other reasons, right? 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.120 And like, you know, you should diversify your platforms or everything else. 00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:11.380 It's just like, you know, investment strategy. 00:24:11.460 --> 00:24:13.660 You want to diversify all over Proverbs, right? 00:24:13.980 --> 00:24:14.300 Diversify. 00:24:14.400 --> 00:24:15.620 Don't keep eggs in one basket. 00:24:16.020 --> 00:24:20.380 We get a lot of pushback from the really small churches that are just streaming OBS to Facebook 00:24:20.380 --> 00:24:24.540 or doing so, even though they have hardly any viewers compared to their church size, um, 00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:28.380 from like the 70 bucks a month that it costs, you know, to have your own stream on church 00:24:28.380 --> 00:24:32.200 online platform or altar live or your website or any of those other platforms, you know, 00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:35.500 brush fire, um, all great platforms and altar lives a great one too. 00:24:35.760 --> 00:24:39.540 And, um, when you think about that, you know, like how much do you spend in the in-person 00:24:39.540 --> 00:24:42.280 environment to have people come to your own building, right? 00:24:42.580 --> 00:24:47.180 Like you're not sending them to a Chick-fil-A on a Sunday morning when, you know, um, if, 00:24:47.340 --> 00:24:50.420 or I should say McDonald's, I shouldn't use that because they're closed on Sundays where 00:24:50.420 --> 00:24:54.740 they can kick you out anytime, um, or for just because that, you know, something happened, 00:24:54.780 --> 00:24:54.920 right? 00:24:54.920 --> 00:24:58.260 Like you're sending them to a place that you want to control the experience of, right? 00:24:58.280 --> 00:25:01.660 And so I think we talked about, you know, the censorship stuff and the worries of Facebook 00:25:01.660 --> 00:25:02.620 and YouTube taking it down. 00:25:03.080 --> 00:25:07.120 However, we haven't talked about what's most beneficial strategically, right? 00:25:07.120 --> 00:25:11.920 And so like what we've always communicated to people to do is say Facebook and YouTube are really 00:25:11.920 --> 00:25:17.080 great, but their, their, um, whole monetization platform is built on keeping people on their 00:25:17.080 --> 00:25:19.180 platform after your service. 00:25:19.420 --> 00:25:24.220 And they know, you guys have all watched, you know, the social dilemma that they have 00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:28.780 to change your attention very frequently to keep you on the platform, right? 00:25:29.140 --> 00:25:32.940 And so you're sending people to Facebook, you're sending people to YouTube, they're getting 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:35.160 a ton of negative distractions, right? 00:25:35.180 --> 00:25:38.120 They're getting a ton of people commenting on their Facebook group, people commenting on 00:25:38.120 --> 00:25:43.380 this, people liking X, people watching these videos, um, scrolling, same thing with YouTube, 00:25:43.500 --> 00:25:44.740 all of these other videos, right? 00:25:44.760 --> 00:25:46.420 There's links everywhere for other stuff. 00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:51.060 There's a search bar that doesn't have your church's content in it at all, right? 00:25:51.120 --> 00:25:54.520 It's got everything else because they know in order to make more money, they've got to keep 00:25:54.520 --> 00:25:55.720 you on their platform long-term. 00:25:56.060 --> 00:25:57.620 And they know that they have to change on Facebook. 00:25:57.960 --> 00:26:01.780 They have to change your attention every 15 to two minutes, right? 00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:02.920 15 seconds to two minutes. 00:26:02.980 --> 00:26:04.160 They've got to change it, change it, change it. 00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:07.360 So you keep giving, building the minutes, you know, and YouTube's the same way, it's longer. 00:26:07.780 --> 00:26:11.200 But if you look at average watch times across the platform, and this has been true 10 years 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:12.020 ago, right? 00:26:12.420 --> 00:26:16.020 Facebook, you know, I've never seen higher than like three minutes for a church, right? 00:26:16.040 --> 00:26:17.600 It's like people are watching for a minute on average. 00:26:17.900 --> 00:26:20.240 So someone will say like, hey, I've got 15,000 people viewing. 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:22.460 Yeah, but they each watched, you know, a minute. 00:26:22.860 --> 00:26:23.860 So how do you measure? 00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:27.240 That's great for marketing, but those people aren't attending your service, right? 00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:29.500 And then YouTube's the same story, right? 00:26:29.500 --> 00:26:31.340 It has a little bit average higher watch time. 00:26:31.900 --> 00:26:35.480 It's got typically between 10 and 20 minutes, which is pretty, which is a long time. 00:26:35.940 --> 00:26:40.300 But on your page, like if you do altar live or church online platform, your website, it's 00:26:40.300 --> 00:26:41.400 45 plus, right? 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:42.980 They're watching like 80% of the service. 00:26:43.320 --> 00:26:47.660 So if you can convert those people from those different audiences, Instagram, Facebook, 00:26:47.860 --> 00:26:49.780 YouTube to that, that's the one. 00:26:49.840 --> 00:26:53.260 So we have a lot of churches that stream the first however long of the message to Facebook 00:26:53.260 --> 00:26:55.720 and they cut off, say watch my site or YouTube. 00:26:55.800 --> 00:26:57.540 So they get the benefit, right? 00:26:57.540 --> 00:27:01.200 Or they have their pastor record something on Instagram live saying, hey, we're streaming live 00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.820 right now here, you know, please share this with other people. 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:05.040 So they get the sharing benefit. 00:27:05.180 --> 00:27:08.340 Same thing with Facebook and YouTube, but watch on my site, right? 00:27:08.420 --> 00:27:11.640 Like come to our thing where we have, you know, and you can join community groups. 00:27:11.740 --> 00:27:12.600 You can talk with people. 00:27:13.160 --> 00:27:16.740 You can, you know, that way they have positive distractions like giving, join a community 00:27:16.740 --> 00:27:17.080 group. 00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:21.540 Things that will actually impact their life for the better rather than, you know, their 00:27:21.540 --> 00:27:25.380 aunt's commenting on their photo or, you know, the YouTube video that they're interested 00:27:25.380 --> 00:27:25.620 in. 00:27:25.720 --> 00:27:25.920 Right? 00:27:25.920 --> 00:27:31.440 I think there's an opportunity here to even revisit what that outward facing video, you're 00:27:31.440 --> 00:27:31.600 right. 00:27:31.680 --> 00:27:35.640 Like have the pastor doing that Facebook thing where I'm not worried about DRM. 00:27:35.700 --> 00:27:39.840 I'm not worried about, and I can play to the strengths of the platform like, like you're 00:27:39.840 --> 00:27:44.460 alluding to where, hey, people are only going to watch 30 seconds of this video. 00:27:44.680 --> 00:27:47.400 Let's make the 30 seconds of the video work. 00:27:47.560 --> 00:27:52.840 I'm working with the strengths of the platform and using that front door to onboard them into 00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:54.620 the service wherever it's at. 00:27:55.140 --> 00:28:03.340 And if that's the approach, now I can have numerous, like dozens of frontward facing onboarding 00:28:03.340 --> 00:28:04.160 opportunities. 00:28:05.040 --> 00:28:06.420 Hey, let's, I mean, this is crazy. 00:28:06.520 --> 00:28:09.800 I've been spending some time the past couple of weeks working with Clubhouse. 00:28:10.020 --> 00:28:15.120 Let's figure out how to turn Clubhouse into a front door to onboard people into a church 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:15.380 service. 00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:16.620 I have no idea how to do that. 00:28:16.620 --> 00:28:22.480 I'm just talking out loud, but there's an opportunity as new things open up, don't look 00:28:22.480 --> 00:28:25.820 at, start thinking above the funnel, maybe approach here. 00:28:25.900 --> 00:28:29.240 Don't look at the church service as the top of the funnel digitally. 00:28:29.420 --> 00:28:35.200 Let's try to figure out how to work above there, connect with people, and then drive them into 00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:42.540 the church service that's on your digital platform, on your property, as opposed to borrowed from 00:28:42.540 --> 00:28:43.960 somebody else where you don't control it. 00:28:44.160 --> 00:28:45.540 Yeah, there's lots of things here, right? 00:28:45.540 --> 00:28:48.380 So first, as a side note, like Jeff talked about DRM. 00:28:48.440 --> 00:28:52.840 What we started doing is we started cutting movie clips altogether and inserting a slide 00:28:52.840 --> 00:28:57.300 of the clip and just like explaining it for our audience so that we don't get taken off 00:28:57.300 --> 00:28:57.880 of a platform. 00:28:58.120 --> 00:29:01.280 So for those of you churches that are still suffering through, man, we want to do at the 00:29:01.280 --> 00:29:05.420 movies or our pastor is just adamant about, you know, putting a clip in or whatever else, 00:29:05.820 --> 00:29:09.600 talk to him about the possibility of just inserting a slide so that your live audience can still 00:29:09.600 --> 00:29:12.860 enjoy the clip, but that your online audience, it's not as bad. 00:29:12.940 --> 00:29:13.560 It's not as good. 00:29:13.880 --> 00:29:14.640 I'm going to start off there. 00:29:14.820 --> 00:29:16.000 It's not on your website too. 00:29:16.320 --> 00:29:20.320 So you can have different streams, you know, where you're streaming it to the website, but 00:29:20.320 --> 00:29:22.580 so you can say, hey, watch on the website if you want to see the clip. 00:29:22.860 --> 00:29:23.680 That's exactly right. 00:29:23.840 --> 00:29:27.180 But the other thing, and I think Colin alluded to this really well, is you have to play to 00:29:27.180 --> 00:29:28.180 the platform's strengths. 00:29:28.520 --> 00:29:32.140 You really have to understand what the platform is good at. 00:29:32.520 --> 00:29:36.540 And then from there, allow that to drive people from content. 00:29:36.660 --> 00:29:37.960 We've talked about this a lot on this show. 00:29:38.380 --> 00:29:39.900 Go from content to community. 00:29:40.400 --> 00:29:44.000 Like it can't just be about engaging with the content. 00:29:44.560 --> 00:29:49.620 So, you know, if it is Facebook, you know, and YouTube is your video server, then leverage 00:29:49.620 --> 00:29:51.020 YouTube video chapters. 00:29:51.300 --> 00:29:51.780 They're there. 00:29:51.860 --> 00:29:53.440 You can take like a small clip of the message. 00:29:53.600 --> 00:29:55.540 Elevation does this really well with their swipe up feature. 00:29:55.960 --> 00:29:59.060 You can do this with Facebook and just have a link right there in the video and say, 00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:00.380 hey, click here for the full message. 00:30:00.480 --> 00:30:05.260 And it'll take them right to the same spot to pick up where they left off on in the midst 00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:05.720 of the message. 00:30:05.720 --> 00:30:07.320 And they can continue from there to the end. 00:30:07.660 --> 00:30:09.160 They don't need your introductory story. 00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:10.040 They don't need your illustration. 00:30:10.240 --> 00:30:13.880 They were already, you know, wrapped into whatever point you were making with that one clip. 00:30:14.180 --> 00:30:17.660 And that's a good way to use one platform to link to another platform to just kind of 00:30:17.660 --> 00:30:18.200 absorb them in. 00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:21.940 Or even better, if you're doing what Colin and Jeff were talking about, drive them to 00:30:21.940 --> 00:30:22.460 your archive. 00:30:22.620 --> 00:30:23.540 Get them to binge. 00:30:23.820 --> 00:30:25.920 Get, you know, we binge watch so much content now. 00:30:26.100 --> 00:30:29.920 Just give them the full series right there and say, yeah, this is part of chapter two of 00:30:29.920 --> 00:30:30.360 this series. 00:30:30.740 --> 00:30:31.280 Keep going. 00:30:31.540 --> 00:30:32.480 Keep watching this stuff. 00:30:32.560 --> 00:30:33.240 You're already here. 00:30:33.620 --> 00:30:37.900 Leverage that to your capability as much as possible to try and draw them in. 00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:43.740 Because every platform has its own individual strength, but they're not really meant to be 00:30:43.740 --> 00:30:44.500 a do-all. 00:30:44.620 --> 00:30:45.100 Are they, Colin? 00:30:45.260 --> 00:30:46.700 Or am I overthinking this? 00:30:46.860 --> 00:30:47.220 Oh, yeah. 00:30:47.280 --> 00:30:48.520 And I think there's also... 00:30:48.520 --> 00:30:49.640 Yeah, exactly what you said. 00:30:49.680 --> 00:30:50.380 I 100% agree with. 00:30:50.440 --> 00:30:52.700 There's also the demographics of the different platforms, right? 00:30:53.020 --> 00:30:56.340 And so there's not only exactly what you said, which is every platform has a purpose. 00:30:56.840 --> 00:31:00.340 Like if you think about, you know, everyone's going to watch your sermon on a minute. 00:31:00.720 --> 00:31:03.160 You know, that's a scary thought for most pastors, right? 00:31:03.160 --> 00:31:06.480 Because at any minute that they could come in, they're like, wow, they could really misconstrue 00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.820 something that I said and then never come back, right? 00:31:08.820 --> 00:31:13.520 And be turned off from Christ Fellowship or Life.Church or whatever it is, right? 00:31:13.540 --> 00:31:14.440 That's a scary thought. 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:19.660 And so like to put your whole service, you know, on platforms where people only watch 00:31:19.660 --> 00:31:24.100 for a minute or 15 minutes or whatever, that's a big risk too, right? 00:31:24.560 --> 00:31:27.000 It's not necessarily an acquisition strategy, right? 00:31:27.260 --> 00:31:32.160 Like if you want to acquire more, you know, people, which is evangelism, but in marketing 00:31:32.160 --> 00:31:36.020 terms, if you want to acquire more views, right, which is people that don't know Christ, 00:31:36.020 --> 00:31:38.420 people that are struggling or whatever, right? 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:39.420 Is that the best strategy? 00:31:40.160 --> 00:31:43.760 Demographically, it's true too, you know, Facebook, hardly any young people are going 00:31:43.760 --> 00:31:45.460 to watch your live stream on Facebook, right? 00:31:46.180 --> 00:31:49.680 Hardly any males are going to watch your stream on Facebook, right? 00:31:49.940 --> 00:31:52.080 On YouTube, hardly any females are going to watch your stream. 00:31:52.140 --> 00:31:52.960 It's mostly male, right? 00:31:53.320 --> 00:31:56.500 And so, you know, churches normally have this, hey, I'm going to try to trend towards this 00:31:56.500 --> 00:31:57.440 audience, right? 00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:01.640 And so that's why YouTube has been so popular amongst the biggest churches is not only do they 00:32:01.640 --> 00:32:05.440 have a lot of viewership and people that come to watch content like that. 00:32:05.940 --> 00:32:10.400 But the same thing is true is like, hey, you know, that's only reaching a certain demographic 00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:14.340 with exactly what, you know, Ray and Jeff both alluded to is the platforms have a purpose, 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:14.660 right? 00:32:14.680 --> 00:32:19.640 So YouTube is much better at the five to 10 minute clip on an exact topic, right? 00:32:20.040 --> 00:32:23.000 So what if you did that and then said, learn more about it on my website? 00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:24.900 We're live right now, right? 00:32:25.320 --> 00:32:26.800 We're streaming live, right? 00:32:27.120 --> 00:32:31.020 And so like, if you can have your pastor kind of record these, you know, wherever the biggest 00:32:31.020 --> 00:32:35.240 audience is, and for those things to trend and go big, and there are some exceptions. 00:32:35.620 --> 00:32:39.720 So I should say that like, you know, like people have been really successful doing campus specific 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:45.100 or kind of group specific Facebook groups, or, you know, like the biggest churches like 00:32:45.100 --> 00:32:50.880 Bethel and Red Rocks and Elevation and Hillsong do great on YouTube because then they can trend, 00:32:51.080 --> 00:32:51.300 right? 00:32:51.360 --> 00:32:55.420 So an argument for them, say, I'm going to send my congregation to there so that they 00:32:55.420 --> 00:32:57.920 can trend so that I'll get hundreds of thousands of views, right? 00:32:57.940 --> 00:32:59.920 Where I really only get 50,000 or whatever. 00:33:00.260 --> 00:33:02.340 But you really have to be a certain size to do that. 00:33:02.420 --> 00:33:05.700 And the question still comes with that is like, what's your long term strategy? 00:33:05.840 --> 00:33:07.980 Sure, those people, hundreds of thousands of people are watching on YouTube. 00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:10.040 How does that impact your funnel, right? 00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:11.380 So what are you funneling them towards? 00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:14.240 You probably don't want to just funnel them to more YouTube videos because they're not going 00:33:14.240 --> 00:33:15.920 to be watching your content at all, right? 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:17.520 It's so many negative distractions. 00:33:17.920 --> 00:33:21.820 So, yeah, I totally agree with both of what you guys said and demographics of the part 00:33:21.820 --> 00:33:22.020 two. 00:33:22.300 --> 00:33:22.380 Yeah. 00:33:22.580 --> 00:33:25.080 By the way, let me just totally do another commercial here. 00:33:25.360 --> 00:33:29.120 Like, this is all the stuff that we impact in Stadia's digital learning communities. 00:33:29.920 --> 00:33:32.240 Developing that funnel, understanding the platforms. 00:33:32.440 --> 00:33:36.500 And so if you're listening to this, forgive the commercial, and we'll return to regular programming 00:33:36.500 --> 00:33:36.800 soon. 00:33:37.100 --> 00:33:40.360 But if you're listening to this and you're like, I have no idea what they're talking about, 00:33:40.380 --> 00:33:43.640 or I think I know what they're talking about, I need help taking these steps. 00:33:44.600 --> 00:33:48.440 StadiaChurchPlanning.org slash Fidgetal, P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:33:49.340 --> 00:33:53.320 We've got incredible content aimed towards helping you develop the strategy. 00:33:53.500 --> 00:33:57.780 We've got a community of people that help you develop that strategy and get you connected 00:33:57.780 --> 00:34:03.460 with similar churches so you can learn together with other churches like you that are wrestling 00:34:03.460 --> 00:34:04.740 and asking those same questions. 00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:07.920 So, StadiaChurchPlanning.org slash Fidgetal. 00:34:08.620 --> 00:34:09.380 Commercial over. 00:34:09.580 --> 00:34:11.020 Let's get back to where we were. 00:34:11.020 --> 00:34:12.400 I would love to add to that commercial. 00:34:12.580 --> 00:34:16.200 We've had churches that have gone through that, that have taken their audience from crazy 00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:16.880 different numbers. 00:34:17.960 --> 00:34:21.640 And a lot of them start using Resi as well and part of that process because they are using 00:34:21.640 --> 00:34:25.240 something crappy right now that's not helping them on the digital perspective. 00:34:25.540 --> 00:34:27.320 But I mean, that program is so helpful. 00:34:27.780 --> 00:34:32.100 And Jeff has been doing online church for so long that if you're struggling with this or 00:34:32.100 --> 00:34:36.860 want to get more viewers online, want to impact more people, I'd absolutely recommend it. 00:34:36.860 --> 00:34:38.640 We've seen awesome results from our customers. 00:34:39.260 --> 00:34:39.700 Awesome. 00:34:39.980 --> 00:34:40.640 Love that. 00:34:41.040 --> 00:34:45.380 Having that strategy is so important though, especially moving forward. 00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:49.700 And this is not even, and listen, I can have the conversation fighting for a digital only 00:34:49.700 --> 00:34:51.940 expression of church that does not have a physical footprint. 00:34:52.160 --> 00:34:55.640 And if you've listened to the podcast, you've heard me have that conversation. 00:34:55.840 --> 00:34:57.720 I'm not having that conversation today. 00:34:58.020 --> 00:35:03.760 If you are in the physical building, it is so important for you to even have that digital 00:35:03.760 --> 00:35:08.540 strategy moving forward and wrestle with some of this stuff, have understanding of what 00:35:08.540 --> 00:35:09.580 the platforms are. 00:35:09.580 --> 00:35:17.300 And if you are, if you are the digital guy in a church that's surrounded by physical minded 00:35:17.300 --> 00:35:25.520 people, fight, cheer on, celebrate, don't give this up because it's so important moving 00:35:25.520 --> 00:35:26.140 forward. 00:35:26.360 --> 00:35:28.480 Let them see, let them understand. 00:35:28.880 --> 00:35:31.220 I know I personally, I'm telling my own story here. 00:35:31.620 --> 00:35:35.680 There have been seasons where I've been discouraged, where I've been frustrated, where I've been 00:35:35.680 --> 00:35:38.900 angry, where maybe I internalized it a little too much. 00:35:39.420 --> 00:35:46.940 But you need to continue on because what you are trying to do is so vital for the future of 00:35:46.940 --> 00:35:47.920 the church. 00:35:48.500 --> 00:35:52.320 Continue on in that struggle with helping them understand. 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:54.120 Maybe fight's not the right word. 00:35:54.180 --> 00:35:58.040 I may take back the word fight, but don't give up that struggle. 00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:59.380 Ray, you like that word fight. 00:35:59.520 --> 00:36:01.900 What do you, I mean, listen, we've talked about this. 00:36:01.980 --> 00:36:07.540 CF is not a digital first church by any stretch, you know, and with my time there, with Ray 00:36:07.540 --> 00:36:10.840 times there, I don't want to call out CF on that, but what do you think in here? 00:36:11.180 --> 00:36:13.600 Well, I mean, we're trying to get more in that direction, right? 00:36:13.680 --> 00:36:17.720 And so, you know, the thought of hybrid church, I think has a lot of people inspired or physical 00:36:17.720 --> 00:36:21.880 church, as we call it on this show, is kind of where a lot of folks want to go. 00:36:21.940 --> 00:36:29.760 But it's so hard to break the paradigm of what happens in the room is what matters most. 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:34.740 And it's funny because I've heard stories, and you've heard stories, Jeff, of, you know, 00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:40.640 of how Charles Stanley's church understood what happens in those cameras impacts more 00:36:40.640 --> 00:36:42.020 people than what happens in the room. 00:36:42.100 --> 00:36:45.720 And this is before the age of the internet, because they were doing TV ministry and they 00:36:45.720 --> 00:36:49.600 were understanding, oh, wait a minute, we have the greatest possibility for reaching people 00:36:49.600 --> 00:36:52.260 for Jesus just by looking into that camera. 00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:56.760 And so it's funny how that doesn't even have to be a new thing. 00:36:56.980 --> 00:37:01.700 It's just, it's so hard because we invest so much in our physical structures and our physical 00:37:01.700 --> 00:37:06.060 buildings, and they cost a lot more, right? 00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:11.660 And Colin, talk about that, like the cost of what happens in the room versus what happens 00:37:11.660 --> 00:37:14.020 digitally and how churches struggle through that. 00:37:14.100 --> 00:37:15.640 Why is that such a tough tension to break? 00:37:16.020 --> 00:37:20.140 Yeah, we're actually, so we did a digital campaign at our church where we raised money just 00:37:20.140 --> 00:37:20.520 for digital. 00:37:20.840 --> 00:37:25.120 And it was so funny because, and we had to put like a physical component in it. 00:37:25.720 --> 00:37:31.160 And, you know, like we would, we had this really awesome volunteer at our church who probably 00:37:31.160 --> 00:37:32.160 works 20 hours a week. 00:37:32.520 --> 00:37:36.460 And he was, he's all these Fortune 500, he owns all the digital at all these Fortune 500 00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:40.180 companies, worked with the biggest companies in the world, helping them reach people online, 00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:40.440 right? 00:37:40.480 --> 00:37:42.840 And who, how do we help the digital age, right? 00:37:42.840 --> 00:37:43.820 How do we take advantage of it? 00:37:43.820 --> 00:37:47.400 And he asked our pastors, he was like, hey, if I told you, you know, hey, we're going 00:37:47.400 --> 00:37:50.540 to, I need $2 million to do this building, to do this campus. 00:37:51.080 --> 00:37:54.840 And in, you know, three years, we're going to have 800 people in it, right? 00:37:55.780 --> 00:37:57.160 Then, you know, would you do that? 00:37:57.260 --> 00:37:58.600 And I'm like, absolutely, that'd be amazing. 00:37:58.980 --> 00:38:02.480 And he was like, you know, if I, if I, okay, then told you, hey, I'm going to spend a million 00:38:02.480 --> 00:38:05.700 dollars, then we're going to have 800 more people viewing online every week. 00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:06.780 Would you do that? 00:38:06.920 --> 00:38:12.320 And they were like, you know, and it's, it's, you know, the money difference that you think 00:38:12.320 --> 00:38:16.800 about putting online, just because of the paradigms that we have around it, are, you know, dollar 00:38:16.800 --> 00:38:24.620 for dollar, like online is exponentially, right, has a much higher return than a physical campus, 00:38:24.700 --> 00:38:24.880 right? 00:38:25.120 --> 00:38:28.540 But because we have the paradigms, and it's kind of funny, because I remember sitting in 00:38:28.540 --> 00:38:32.040 so many, I don't know how many sessions we've done together, Jeff, with different things, 00:38:32.040 --> 00:38:36.740 but like each one before Corona, you know, obviously, these are all before Corona, I haven't 00:38:36.740 --> 00:38:38.300 done any in-person sessions since Corona. 00:38:38.820 --> 00:38:43.640 And, and we would have people on every topic, like really fight against us with the online 00:38:43.640 --> 00:38:46.560 thing, especially fighting against Jeff, because I was just the tech guy. 00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:48.060 And Jeff was the guy. 00:38:48.500 --> 00:38:49.680 Yeah, I'm the pastor. 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.260 Everybody wants to fight Jeff. 00:38:51.420 --> 00:38:51.920 Step off. 00:38:52.040 --> 00:38:52.660 Come on, man. 00:38:52.980 --> 00:38:56.720 Yeah, about, you know, theology online, why you shouldn't do it and what. 00:38:56.980 --> 00:38:58.520 And then now no one does that, right? 00:38:58.780 --> 00:39:01.840 I haven't had a conversation fighting someone theologically online forever. 00:39:01.960 --> 00:39:06.220 I hope and pray that, you know, these churches that have gone online have seen the benefit 00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:10.000 reaching people online and will not just stop doing it, right? 00:39:10.040 --> 00:39:11.320 I don't think we'll have a lot of that. 00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:13.900 I think that's only pretty archaic organizations. 00:39:14.200 --> 00:39:16.960 You know, I think for most people it was, hey, we knew that this was probably a thing that 00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:19.400 we needed to do and we need to go in there. 00:39:19.480 --> 00:39:21.020 And Jeff is looking at me skeptically. 00:39:21.420 --> 00:39:23.260 But I really, really hope we don't have many of those. 00:39:23.700 --> 00:39:27.180 Yeah, I honestly, I think the next battlefield, I mean, you're right. 00:39:27.180 --> 00:39:32.900 The churches who were fighting pre-COVID, I mean, I've told the story before where a pastor, 00:39:33.020 --> 00:39:40.340 a friend of mine here in South Florida told me November, December 2019, Jeff, you are sinning 00:39:40.340 --> 00:39:43.160 by helping people broadcast services online. 00:39:43.400 --> 00:39:46.080 You are taking people out of the Bride of Christ, the church. 00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:48.280 That was the conversation 2019, December. 00:39:49.180 --> 00:39:52.740 March 2020, hey, Jeff, we're really in trouble over here. 00:39:52.820 --> 00:39:54.360 Can you help us figure out how to stream? 00:39:54.680 --> 00:39:56.080 Like that, it's a four-month sway. 00:39:56.980 --> 00:39:58.400 COVID doesn't change theology. 00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:06.520 Now, the conversation that I hear and that I'm literally like nationally recognized speakers 00:40:06.520 --> 00:40:10.840 have had me on their podcasts and have derailed me over this one point. 00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:16.380 Hey, yeah, digital is appropriate for now, for a season, but we need to get back. 00:40:17.220 --> 00:40:20.560 And so I think there's a subculture at some point. 00:40:20.600 --> 00:40:24.700 I don't know what percentage because I am seeing so many churches are learning lessons in this 00:40:24.700 --> 00:40:24.980 season. 00:40:24.980 --> 00:40:28.440 And so I'm not saying it's going to, the pendulum is going to swing back to the way that 00:40:28.440 --> 00:40:33.500 it was February, 2020, but there's a percentage that are saying, hey, and I don't even know 00:40:33.500 --> 00:40:36.660 that I want to die on this hill today, but like there's a percentage that's saying, hey, 00:40:37.160 --> 00:40:40.420 we want to go back to February, 2020. 00:40:40.740 --> 00:40:45.860 We want to go back to the way that it was and not acknowledge that digital piece. 00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:47.260 We have Zoom fatigue. 00:40:47.620 --> 00:40:50.680 We don't understand what digital discipleship actually means. 00:40:51.220 --> 00:40:56.160 Digital is only for consuming a product and that's not what the church is. 00:40:56.160 --> 00:41:00.460 And rather than building a disciple making vehicle in digital space, we just want to go back 00:41:00.460 --> 00:41:01.380 and do it all in physical. 00:41:01.380 --> 00:41:04.000 Ray's laughing at me just at the thought here. 00:41:04.080 --> 00:41:10.780 I'm laughing only because, and we've quoted Ed Stetzer on this before in our podcast where 00:41:10.780 --> 00:41:13.580 we build our churches like theaters on Sunday morning. 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:17.980 And so the reality is, is that whether we're showing up live for content consumption or whether 00:41:17.980 --> 00:41:23.000 it's happening in our homes, if it's content consumption, it's just content consumption versus 00:41:23.000 --> 00:41:25.140 being the body of Christ, right? 00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:31.740 Which go to Acts 2, go to, you know, all of Paul's letters involve so much more than just 00:41:31.740 --> 00:41:36.820 merely sitting around and listening to a guy talk for 30 to 45 minutes or two hours, depending 00:41:36.820 --> 00:41:37.860 on your denomination, right? 00:41:38.280 --> 00:41:44.940 So that's where we've got to, we kind of have to, you know, readjust our doxology and 00:41:44.940 --> 00:41:49.720 our theology in terms of what does it actually mean to be part of the body of Christ and 00:41:49.720 --> 00:41:51.540 the practice of it, you know? 00:41:51.620 --> 00:41:55.580 And, and what does it mean to be a practicing believer in terms of community with that? 00:41:55.620 --> 00:42:00.500 Because technology, you know, in my, at least, you know, what it's done for us during this 00:42:00.500 --> 00:42:01.080 COVID season. 00:42:01.080 --> 00:42:04.800 And when I say us, I don't just mean Christ fellowship, I mean, even in terms of my own 00:42:04.800 --> 00:42:07.560 family, because I'm sure like many of you guys, you haven't been able to get together 00:42:07.560 --> 00:42:12.140 physically with a lot of your family, but that doesn't change the fact that I, that I love 00:42:12.140 --> 00:42:12.280 them. 00:42:12.400 --> 00:42:15.800 I care about them and I still long to gather physically with them. 00:42:16.020 --> 00:42:21.220 But if this is the best option I have, and, you know, even though, uh, you know, in many 00:42:21.220 --> 00:42:25.940 cases I can regather with my parents and with my sister and my brother-in-law, um, physically 00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:31.060 and we do, this is how we interact throughout the week often because this is our way 00:42:31.060 --> 00:42:32.060 of keeping up with each other. 00:42:32.160 --> 00:42:36.080 It's not just a family dinner once, once a week or once a month kind of thing. 00:42:36.360 --> 00:42:39.360 We keep up with each other through technological means. 00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:41.260 And then when we can gather physically, we do so. 00:42:41.760 --> 00:42:41.940 Yeah. 00:42:42.100 --> 00:42:44.980 And it's really, you know, you would think that we would learn to not go the way of the 00:42:44.980 --> 00:42:47.320 Dota bird after all of the blockbuster stories, right? 00:42:47.540 --> 00:42:50.340 Of, Hey, let's focus on stores, which is what we're doing right now. 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:52.620 Focusing, you know, or what that subculture is doing. 00:42:52.680 --> 00:42:53.220 And I do agree. 00:42:53.260 --> 00:42:57.560 I think it's a much smaller percentage than like we think, you know, cause a lot of people are 00:42:57.560 --> 00:42:58.460 really invested in this. 00:42:58.880 --> 00:43:03.640 You can't just screen, you know, I think the churches that haven't invested in it or just 00:43:03.640 --> 00:43:07.240 screaming from a phone or doing a video and posting on the website are probably the ones 00:43:07.240 --> 00:43:09.860 that, you know, are not seeing much fruit from it. 00:43:09.940 --> 00:43:12.320 And then it's easy for them because they were very reluctant anyways. 00:43:12.860 --> 00:43:14.240 And then now they're not seeing fruit from it. 00:43:14.280 --> 00:43:16.520 So it's going to be easy for them to go back, right? 00:43:16.700 --> 00:43:17.480 To the physical. 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:18.900 But I really do. 00:43:19.100 --> 00:43:22.920 I mean, if you can ever be as sure as anything, I'm really sure that it'll go the way of the 00:43:22.920 --> 00:43:24.140 blockbuster, right? 00:43:24.240 --> 00:43:28.160 You will, you know, hang on to that store strategy and there'll be one left in Alaska, right? 00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:33.020 And the problem is, is your church will get older and older and older, right? 00:43:33.080 --> 00:43:34.260 And then it'll be hard. 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:36.740 Everybody that you want to reach is on the online space, right? 00:43:36.880 --> 00:43:40.520 When we can't ignore the online space, it's the digital, it's a new frontier, right? 00:43:40.600 --> 00:43:44.800 And it will always be, and it'll transform every day, right? 00:43:44.840 --> 00:43:47.480 Things are changing and it's scary because of that, right? 00:43:47.500 --> 00:43:51.240 And we get that, but it's our job as believers, you know, to reach people that haven't come. 00:43:51.860 --> 00:43:55.580 And, and really you're asking your congregation, you know, a really hard thing to do too. 00:43:55.660 --> 00:43:58.660 If you're telling them that they need to come every week, you know, people used to come to 00:43:58.660 --> 00:44:00.740 church 3.4 times a month, it was 3.8. 00:44:00.780 --> 00:44:02.060 Now they come 1.4 or whatever. 00:44:02.400 --> 00:44:04.640 And it's like, you know, it's, it's not bad people, right? 00:44:04.640 --> 00:44:09.480 It's the soccer mom that has to choose whether her kid's going to play soccer or not, right? 00:44:09.720 --> 00:44:13.900 Or go to church on Sunday when like she volunteers during the week, goes to community group. 00:44:13.900 --> 00:44:18.620 Like why is the theater on a Sunday important when she's experiencing community and doing all 00:44:18.620 --> 00:44:18.760 that? 00:44:18.760 --> 00:44:22.340 She'll watch online during her kid's soccer practice, right? 00:44:22.440 --> 00:44:23.600 So like, why is that wrong? 00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:28.500 And the, and coming together as believers, like in the, that was never, you know, I don't 00:44:28.500 --> 00:44:31.020 think Jesus ever said that we can't come over the internet, right? 00:44:31.380 --> 00:44:34.760 And it's like the, and I get that people, you know, it's being together and what you define 00:44:34.760 --> 00:44:40.200 that as, but I really hope that people continue and whatever expression, it doesn't have to 00:44:40.200 --> 00:44:43.580 be an online, you know, whatever it is, that we don't ignore digital, right? 00:44:43.580 --> 00:44:48.660 And we don't go in the way of the blockbuster or the door or whatever, and that we actually 00:44:48.660 --> 00:44:51.380 think about how Jesus would express, you know, church in this culture. 00:44:52.140 --> 00:44:52.460 Yeah. 00:44:52.460 --> 00:44:55.260 The other thing that I know that a lot of churches are afraid of is the comparing and 00:44:55.260 --> 00:44:59.540 contrasting between, oh, but they can watch any church online on a given Sunday morning. 00:44:59.680 --> 00:45:03.340 And when I think of that, I think of the whole Popeye's versus Chick-fil-A thing that happened 00:45:03.340 --> 00:45:04.000 a couple of years ago. 00:45:04.080 --> 00:45:05.480 Oh, Popeye's is coming out with the sandwich. 00:45:05.620 --> 00:45:07.120 Oh, it might be better than Chick-fil-A's. 00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:08.600 That lasted about two weeks. 00:45:08.640 --> 00:45:10.780 And then all my friends were running back to Chick-fil-A because they were like, dude, 00:45:10.800 --> 00:45:11.700 they ran out of the sandwiches. 00:45:12.320 --> 00:45:13.280 The lines were too long. 00:45:13.680 --> 00:45:14.760 The service was terrible. 00:45:14.920 --> 00:45:15.700 I can't believe this. 00:45:15.740 --> 00:45:18.100 I went running back to Chick-fil-A as fast as possible. 00:45:18.100 --> 00:45:22.280 It didn't matter how the Popeye's sandwich tasted because I wanted the full experience 00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:23.340 that I got somewhere else. 00:45:23.420 --> 00:45:28.540 And so the question becomes now, church, is it just about your sermon content or is there 00:45:28.540 --> 00:45:33.500 something greater that keeps your people locked in, that keeps them coming back, that makes 00:45:33.500 --> 00:45:34.880 them feel like they're part of a family? 00:45:35.460 --> 00:45:37.280 And so it can't just be about that good content. 00:45:37.440 --> 00:45:37.800 Yeah, agreed. 00:45:37.900 --> 00:45:42.100 And I think that's even more of an argument to own your own platform doing agree, right? 00:45:42.100 --> 00:45:46.880 Not only for the censorship of the street, but if you're able to influence people's experience 00:45:46.880 --> 00:45:51.880 on your site or something like that, or even if it's your communication directors on Facebook 00:45:51.880 --> 00:45:53.220 or whatever, right? 00:45:53.300 --> 00:45:56.700 If you're able to shepherd, wrap community... 00:45:56.700 --> 00:45:59.140 Church Online Platform always says community around content, right? 00:45:59.280 --> 00:46:00.320 How do we wrap that? 00:46:00.700 --> 00:46:03.600 And Jeff always talks about discipleship, right? 00:46:03.600 --> 00:46:04.780 How do we disciple people online? 00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:07.140 How do we add community and discipleship from online? 00:46:07.660 --> 00:46:10.080 And that's a very digital strategy. 00:46:10.280 --> 00:46:10.580 It's a very... 00:46:10.580 --> 00:46:13.840 You're just taking what you do online and you're putting it in person. 00:46:14.620 --> 00:46:17.540 And there's nothing really that scary about that, right? 00:46:17.540 --> 00:46:20.460 We're not going all the way that Jeff's saying, we should have online only triggers. 00:46:20.720 --> 00:46:22.160 I agree, but we're not... 00:46:22.160 --> 00:46:25.720 That scares those people that are online only, which you know, because you don't want to 00:46:25.720 --> 00:46:27.080 die on that hill today. 00:46:27.080 --> 00:46:33.040 But what really we're saying is digital people that have fought... 00:46:33.040 --> 00:46:36.700 And if you're at your organization, at the ones that's like, yeah, I get this, right? 00:46:36.740 --> 00:46:39.340 Which is probably the people listening to this podcast because the other people have stopped 00:46:39.340 --> 00:46:45.260 listening a long time ago, is do things to influence the digital impact of your church. 00:46:45.340 --> 00:46:48.780 So some of what our customers do that are pretty cool is they put up... 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:53.180 There's a stage display or whatever, whatever you normally do for lyrics, put another $100 00:46:53.180 --> 00:46:56.440 TV up there, $200 TV or whatever you want, right? 00:46:56.480 --> 00:46:58.840 And have it be the analytics for the online screen that's watching live. 00:46:59.300 --> 00:47:01.020 And put that in the green room too. 00:47:01.100 --> 00:47:01.640 It's very easy. 00:47:01.720 --> 00:47:02.800 You can get that from the Resi platform. 00:47:02.920 --> 00:47:03.640 You can get that from YouTube. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:04.960 You can get that from Facebook, right? 00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:07.400 And we update ours every 60 seconds. 00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:11.840 So when the pastor is up there, when there's not that many people in the room today, right? 00:47:12.080 --> 00:47:15.920 They can say, hey, you know, I'm impacting people all over the world who are watching right now, right? 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.240 And they're in the room, you know, spiritually, just like they are here, right? 00:47:20.260 --> 00:47:21.220 They're listening to the service. 00:47:21.380 --> 00:47:22.380 They're praying through it. 00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:23.700 They're being impacted, right? 00:47:24.120 --> 00:47:25.060 They're praying on their own. 00:47:25.140 --> 00:47:27.340 They're texting their friends during services to watch it, right? 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:30.740 And we did that in our green room and on our stage display. 00:47:30.840 --> 00:47:34.100 And that really helped leadership and worship kind of see it, right? 00:47:34.300 --> 00:47:38.780 And see like, hey, wow, there's like, you know, each one of these like little dots is a person. 00:47:39.020 --> 00:47:41.420 Like there's a lot more of those than that are in the room. 00:47:41.940 --> 00:47:45.620 And like each one of those dots is like hearing, right? 00:47:45.620 --> 00:47:51.780 And like our pastor will pray over them before he walks out and do things like that, which is just the cool thing to do. 00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:57.060 So anything you can do to kind of put digital in front of leadership and say this is the impact, right? 00:47:57.100 --> 00:48:04.040 Like stories are always helpful, but data and not just giving them data after the service, but like letting them pray over it, right? 00:48:04.080 --> 00:48:07.640 Like it's live and, you know, experiencing it like they would pray over the room, right? 00:48:08.740 --> 00:48:13.880 And yeah, I think there's probably other things that we could add there that help right now when the digital person is winning. 00:48:13.920 --> 00:48:14.860 He's the pastor. 00:48:15.420 --> 00:48:16.460 I mean, he's the strategic team. 00:48:16.600 --> 00:48:18.100 He's the, you know, he's doing everything right now. 00:48:18.200 --> 00:48:22.540 And then in a couple months or a few months, however long, the balance of power will change. 00:48:22.600 --> 00:48:25.080 So how do we convince people of digital today, right? 00:48:25.220 --> 00:48:25.340 Yeah. 00:48:25.640 --> 00:48:34.000 I never thought of me about putting that, the analytics, like public, you know, on an agreement or something like that's a great idea. 00:48:34.300 --> 00:48:35.800 Hey, I want to challenge Rezzy. 00:48:36.040 --> 00:48:38.660 If anybody can figure this out, you can figure this out. 00:48:38.660 --> 00:48:46.960 I want the Microsoft engineered NBA Orlando LED TV wall. 00:48:47.600 --> 00:48:54.180 Like when they had, you could be the fan in the stands watching the game happen like in real time. 00:48:54.840 --> 00:48:55.740 The fan cast. 00:48:55.840 --> 00:48:56.680 Is that what they called it? 00:48:56.960 --> 00:48:57.980 Yeah, that's what they called it. 00:48:58.500 --> 00:48:59.800 I want that in church, bro. 00:49:00.200 --> 00:49:01.640 Colin, you got to figure it out. 00:49:01.740 --> 00:49:06.420 Like I'm told they had $300 million worth of engineers working on that project. 00:49:06.580 --> 00:49:11.520 I'm well in the bed to take you guys, what, maybe a week or two to engineer that level. 00:49:11.680 --> 00:49:11.800 Yeah. 00:49:11.980 --> 00:49:14.280 I mean, we'll definitely do it in the future. 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:17.820 There's, you know, VR will gain a lot more traction, right? 00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:21.360 And, you know, and that those type of platforms and we'll do it. 00:49:21.420 --> 00:49:25.140 We tend to not do leading edge things, but like until the technology is scalable. 00:49:25.480 --> 00:49:28.940 And today the technology is not very scalable, but it will be in the future. 00:49:29.400 --> 00:49:31.980 And that'll definitely be one of the ways that we consume church, right? 00:49:32.040 --> 00:49:34.080 Is, you know, hey, I can talk to the person next to me. 00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:36.280 And there's already examples of VR churches today. 00:49:36.800 --> 00:49:38.760 And that'll trend just on browsers, right? 00:49:38.760 --> 00:49:40.440 Not, you know, it's a VR deal. 00:49:40.800 --> 00:49:42.800 So like we'll do that. 00:49:43.020 --> 00:49:43.820 I'm going to connect. 00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:46.640 I'm going to connect you and Stephanie over at Alter Live. 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:52.400 And so you guys are going to, we're going to start talking Rezzy and Alter Live coming up with the solution. 00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.520 Because I want to virtually see the people watching at home. 00:49:56.000 --> 00:49:57.660 I want to stand from the stage. 00:49:58.160 --> 00:50:03.860 I just, I think, I just think that's so beautiful to be able to show that, to be able to have that represented, I think would be awesome. 00:50:03.980 --> 00:50:04.340 Go ahead, Ray. 00:50:04.580 --> 00:50:09.120 Well, to give credit to a church across town, the VU did that a lot during the pandemic. 00:50:09.120 --> 00:50:12.780 And they leveraged Zoom rooms and they put them on TVs out there. 00:50:12.880 --> 00:50:16.620 Like they had like a spacious, spaced audience live. 00:50:16.700 --> 00:50:21.380 But then they also had TVs around the room with the Zoom screens full blown up. 00:50:21.380 --> 00:50:22.480 And they had the people in there. 00:50:22.520 --> 00:50:26.120 And then the people who were watching on Zoom were watching, you know, the lead pastor, Rich. 00:50:26.440 --> 00:50:29.480 And they were seeing each other live, like in the moment as well. 00:50:29.900 --> 00:50:33.180 And that was just an exceptional way to kind of get people in the moment. 00:50:33.400 --> 00:50:39.520 And so, you know, they would, they had, you know, the ability, they had a link that would go live, you know, so that you could enter into the Zoom room. 00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:44.240 They obviously had moderators at the time, making sure everything was kosher and making sure everything was okay. 00:50:44.660 --> 00:50:49.220 But that was actually, and I got to give them a lot of credit because the tech didn't exist. 00:50:49.380 --> 00:50:51.200 Like Jeff, you were saying, you were talking about FanCast. 00:50:51.740 --> 00:50:57.220 So they like leveraged what little bits of tech and they merged them together and they made that kind of thing happen. 00:50:57.220 --> 00:51:01.260 Just really cool to see VU Church do that kind of thing to keep that live feel. 00:51:01.340 --> 00:51:04.260 But at the same time, this whole, within this whole digital space. 00:51:04.320 --> 00:51:05.280 And so props to them, man. 00:51:05.360 --> 00:51:05.700 Good stuff. 00:51:05.920 --> 00:51:08.560 And they did it without $300 million worth of engineers. 00:51:08.860 --> 00:51:10.840 They didn't pay the big bucks for that. 00:51:11.220 --> 00:51:13.340 Colin, take you a weekend, man. 00:51:13.420 --> 00:51:14.120 Come up with something. 00:51:14.840 --> 00:51:16.920 Well, what they did there, and they're a Resi customer. 00:51:17.060 --> 00:51:19.220 So they streamed out their normal stream just like any other church. 00:51:19.640 --> 00:51:24.240 And then they did, you know, the Zoom rooms of people that can see and talk in a physical space and they're watching. 00:51:24.580 --> 00:51:29.820 Even though it's slightly off of what they're watching, it doesn't matter because people are still interacting with it, right? 00:51:29.980 --> 00:51:30.660 So it's pretty cool. 00:51:31.920 --> 00:51:38.800 And they're saying, yeah, I think anytime you can do anything like that, you know, leadership wise, it just helps bridge the gap of understanding. 00:51:39.140 --> 00:51:39.260 Right? 00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:43.840 Like we have, you know, most of our pastors today didn't grow up on their phones, right? 00:51:43.920 --> 00:51:44.320 They didn't. 00:51:45.260 --> 00:51:46.440 And it's a challenge. 00:51:47.180 --> 00:51:47.920 And yeah. 00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:49.840 Hey, so we're going to wrap. 00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:50.660 We're going to land a plane. 00:51:50.720 --> 00:51:52.420 This has been a great conversation. 00:51:52.560 --> 00:51:53.020 Love this. 00:51:53.080 --> 00:51:56.200 Hey, out there, own your platform. 00:51:56.500 --> 00:51:57.440 Own your audience. 00:51:57.580 --> 00:51:58.140 I love that. 00:51:58.140 --> 00:52:02.800 And develop strategies for the different platforms that you're on. 00:52:03.120 --> 00:52:07.580 The Facebook strategy is maybe different than the YouTube, which is different than the Twitter. 00:52:08.080 --> 00:52:11.880 Figure out what you're going to do with Clubhouse and the TikToks. 00:52:11.900 --> 00:52:12.280 Oh my gosh. 00:52:12.320 --> 00:52:15.940 If we could figure out, this is for me, this is the thing that I'm wrestling with today. 00:52:17.020 --> 00:52:17.460 Twitch. 00:52:17.860 --> 00:52:21.580 How can we connect Twitch, this idea of streaming? 00:52:22.340 --> 00:52:23.380 Not a church service. 00:52:23.420 --> 00:52:28.800 I don't want to stream a church service in Twitch, but use it as an onboarding device to get people connected in. 00:52:28.800 --> 00:52:30.540 I think there's an opportunity there. 00:52:30.660 --> 00:52:33.840 I'm exploring and we're going to have some podcast conversations about that soon. 00:52:34.320 --> 00:52:45.420 But love this idea of owning the audience and really not dependent upon some of the CDNs and that for the distribution of this. 00:52:45.740 --> 00:52:48.200 So, hey, let's just land a plane here. 00:52:48.580 --> 00:52:50.120 Ray, what are you thinking as we're wrapping up? 00:52:50.200 --> 00:53:00.960 Yeah, as we talk about, you know, and kind of circle back to where we're at earlier in the conversation, as we talk about using other folks' platforms, I know that a lot of churches, especially right now, are probably scared. 00:53:01.300 --> 00:53:08.440 They're like, man, I think I need to run away from some of these platforms because I'm afraid of how it's going to be impacted or whatever else. 00:53:08.440 --> 00:53:12.460 But let me just remind you, you know, go back to the New Testament. 00:53:12.740 --> 00:53:16.480 Paul stood up on public steps, preached, and yeah, he got tossed. 00:53:16.540 --> 00:53:17.140 He got canceled. 00:53:17.300 --> 00:53:19.220 He got, you know, a whole bunch of stuff, but it didn't stop him. 00:53:19.520 --> 00:53:21.980 He would just keep getting right back up there and preaching as well. 00:53:22.080 --> 00:53:30.200 And so don't be afraid to engage with these platforms however long as we can, you know, and if that's ever taken away from us, that's okay. 00:53:30.200 --> 00:53:32.300 But don't let that be your only place. 00:53:32.300 --> 00:53:33.860 Kind of like what Colin and Jeff were alluding to. 00:53:34.200 --> 00:53:36.200 Make sure you got a great sermon archive on your website. 00:53:36.380 --> 00:53:39.300 Make sure that you've got a strong website presence. 00:53:40.120 --> 00:53:41.880 Doesn't, you know, you don't have to use one of the big boys. 00:53:41.980 --> 00:53:50.160 You can use something easy like Squarespace or Wix, but no matter what, make sure and point people back towards that community and point them back to where they can find out more about your church. 00:53:50.300 --> 00:53:51.240 That's the bigger deal. 00:53:51.620 --> 00:53:53.900 Don't host it with YouTube because that's the same thing. 00:53:54.320 --> 00:53:54.460 Yeah. 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:55.080 Exactly. 00:53:55.440 --> 00:53:55.580 Yeah. 00:53:55.580 --> 00:53:57.620 A lot of people have a sermon archive on their website, but it's YouTube. 00:53:57.620 --> 00:53:58.520 So people watch one video. 00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:01.480 No, that's good, Colin, before you go on with that. 00:54:02.200 --> 00:54:05.360 And I think this is kind of an important thing, you know, with the internet. 00:54:05.660 --> 00:54:10.360 Nothing is ever truly free in the sense of cost, right? 00:54:10.740 --> 00:54:15.160 And so we need to just kind of understand that too as a church that, wait, oh, Facebook's free. 00:54:16.340 --> 00:54:17.060 YouTube's free. 00:54:17.880 --> 00:54:18.280 Yeah. 00:54:18.580 --> 00:54:25.740 So us, but it could eventually cost us something in the sense that they can decide whether or not they want to host our content for free. 00:54:26.080 --> 00:54:27.220 And that's how some of that works. 00:54:27.720 --> 00:54:30.840 And the reason why it's free is because they're making millions off of the viewers that you're sending them. 00:54:30.840 --> 00:54:37.240 And so isn't it a better picture for you to have more giving dollars from the people that you're sending them, right? 00:54:37.260 --> 00:54:42.080 Like if you do it on your thing, you'll have more giving, more retention, more people over time, right? 00:54:42.120 --> 00:54:44.320 So if you own your platform, right, you're giving it to them. 00:54:44.440 --> 00:54:47.600 They're there, they're listening to ads, paying for stuff or whatever, right? 00:54:47.680 --> 00:54:49.080 I'm staying on those platforms viewing. 00:54:49.660 --> 00:54:50.600 So yeah, I totally agree. 00:54:50.700 --> 00:54:52.740 And those viewers are worth something to you too. 00:54:53.380 --> 00:54:58.200 Not only for the kingdom, but also for the giving and the things that make your church sustainable, right? 00:54:58.240 --> 00:55:02.120 The more viewer hours that you get, the more giving that you have, right? 00:55:02.140 --> 00:55:05.880 The more people in community groups that you have, et cetera. 00:55:06.000 --> 00:55:09.200 And so I think we hear free exactly like you're right. 00:55:09.260 --> 00:55:11.600 And we're saying, okay, let's, I'm all in on free, right? 00:55:11.640 --> 00:55:12.200 Who's not? 00:55:12.640 --> 00:55:13.260 It's great. 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:18.140 But then we don't think about the costs and Facebook and YouTube are very smart at defining 00:55:18.140 --> 00:55:21.340 free and how to make money off of free and churches should be as well, right? 00:55:22.080 --> 00:55:24.320 And so yeah, in closing, I think we've already said it. 00:55:24.380 --> 00:55:28.100 Really thankful for Jeff and Ray's leadership in this space and all the things that you guys 00:55:28.100 --> 00:55:29.560 are doing to provide churches content. 00:55:29.820 --> 00:55:34.540 It's extremely helpful and we'll, it'll be a really interesting time as we go back to, 00:55:34.640 --> 00:55:38.800 you know, the, the hybrid types of services and hopefully everybody keeps. 00:55:39.380 --> 00:55:39.780 Awesome. 00:55:39.920 --> 00:55:40.220 Love it. 00:55:40.300 --> 00:55:43.040 Hey, it's always great hanging out with, with, with Colin. 00:55:43.440 --> 00:55:49.340 Um, and, and looking forward to more conversations like this in the future church, uh, just be 00:55:49.340 --> 00:55:53.360 aware that what we're unintentionally doing may have consequences down the road. 00:55:53.420 --> 00:55:54.080 I love this. 00:55:54.120 --> 00:55:55.420 Like not, nothing is free. 00:55:55.560 --> 00:56:00.320 These giant tech companies didn't get to be giant tech companies by giving away free services. 00:56:00.620 --> 00:56:06.600 Uh, and so as a result, there are things that will cost and, and I'm not even talking dollars 00:56:06.600 --> 00:56:08.180 and cents necessarily here. 00:56:08.440 --> 00:56:13.120 Uh, and so there are challenges in some of this that, that will likely be an issue in the 00:56:13.120 --> 00:56:13.400 future. 00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:20.220 So, um, know that, develop that strategy, be aware of some of this going in because the 00:56:20.220 --> 00:56:26.880 massive stress ball that was March, 2020, uh, can very easily happen again. 00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:34.060 Uh, should seasons shift, should people shift, should situations shift, which they're likely 00:56:34.060 --> 00:56:35.360 to do in culture today. 00:56:35.360 --> 00:56:42.140 So be aware, be thinking about this and start to develop a plan that's maybe not so dependent 00:56:42.140 --> 00:56:45.960 upon these free platforms. 00:56:46.280 --> 00:56:48.460 Your, your lifeblood should not be on a free thing. 00:56:48.920 --> 00:56:49.780 Work and develop. 00:56:50.140 --> 00:56:55.180 There are options to kind of get you more, more stable, more secure for the road ahead, not 00:56:55.180 --> 00:56:57.540 to mention better strategies for it. 00:56:57.620 --> 00:56:59.680 So, uh, happy to help through that. 00:56:59.760 --> 00:57:00.760 Hit me up on social media. 00:57:00.820 --> 00:57:07.560 If you guys have direct questions, you can text me at 484-324-8724 or comment on anything 00:57:07.560 --> 00:57:09.720 on social media and glad to help. 00:57:09.920 --> 00:57:12.200 So, hey, Ray, thanks for jumping on this call. 00:57:12.200 --> 00:57:15.500 And once again, thanks for coming in as well and, and, and taking the time. 00:57:15.720 --> 00:57:19.940 So for Ray, for Colin, this is Jeff with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planning. 00:57:20.380 --> 00:57:21.320 Thanks for joining us today. 00:57:21.340 --> 00:57:22.680 And we'll see you next time here at the pod. 00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:23.400 Y'all have a good day.