WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.940 Hey, we're going to get you to that podcast in one second, but before we get there, I, Jeff Reed, the Church Digital, Stadia Church Planning, I wanted to have a conversation with you, churches that are out there. 00:00:10.240 --> 00:00:23.360 One of the greatest things I arguably think that I've done in my life, other than married and kids, okay, that aside, one of the greatest ministry things I've ever done is this idea of the fidgetal learning communities that we are offering through Stadia Church Planning. 00:00:23.360 --> 00:00:31.780 We want to help you, we want to help your church learn to thrive, grow, and multiply fidgetally, physically, as well as digitally. 00:00:32.100 --> 00:00:38.320 We've seen about 200 churches go through this already, and it's been a phenomenal result of it. 00:00:38.380 --> 00:00:40.620 Culture is changing within these churches. 00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:42.640 They're understanding what it is to thrive. 00:00:43.140 --> 00:00:52.500 They're understanding how to grow people, how to grow their church, even in the midst of this COVID, not COVID, wherever we are in the season. 00:00:52.500 --> 00:00:58.460 And they're even starting to understand what it means to multiply in fidgetal space. 00:00:58.620 --> 00:01:01.880 There's no secret sauce to doing a digital strategy. 00:01:02.020 --> 00:01:04.940 There's no secret sauce to doing a fidgetal strategy. 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:09.960 There's no secret sauce to making your church thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:10.760 It takes work. 00:01:10.820 --> 00:01:11.660 I'm not going to lie. 00:01:12.140 --> 00:01:16.680 But through the framework, through the questions, through the learning communities, we connect you with churches. 00:01:16.680 --> 00:01:17.940 We give you some content. 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:31.740 We coach you along the way to help you make the decisions that you need to make so that your church's strategy can thrive, grow, and multiply your church along the way. 00:01:31.940 --> 00:01:34.080 This is a great opportunity for your church. 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:35.500 We would love to have you be a part of it. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:40.920 For more information, check out stadiacchurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:41.560 --> 00:01:44.300 stadiacchurchplanning.org slash fidgetal. 00:01:44.340 --> 00:01:47.840 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:01:48.140 --> 00:01:48.500 All right. 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:49.320 Hey, that's it. 00:01:49.420 --> 00:01:51.240 We're going to get you back to that episode right now. 00:01:51.740 --> 00:02:03.700 If there's one thing that we can agree on here in 2021 is there's more digital pastors running around doing ministry today in February 2021 than there was a year ago in February 2020. 00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:07.620 Hey, this is Jeff with The Church Digital, powered by Stated Church Planning. 00:02:07.800 --> 00:02:08.980 It's great to be here. 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:11.900 Love y'all jumping into this conversation here. 00:02:12.020 --> 00:02:13.880 Look, it's a reality. 00:02:14.160 --> 00:02:23.280 In this season, moving towards more of a digital ministry, churches are understanding, hey, we need someone to lead us in this area, in this digital area. 00:02:23.420 --> 00:02:27.620 We need someone to champion this idea of digital ministry among the rest of our staffs. 00:02:27.660 --> 00:02:33.700 We need someone to pastor, to care for, to shepherd people in digital space. 00:02:34.140 --> 00:02:43.880 And why not hire, why not position, why not transition someone into this, call it a digital pastor, digital champion role? 00:02:44.220 --> 00:02:47.860 And so we're seeing that happen in massive ways. 00:02:47.940 --> 00:02:49.360 Now, what does this mean? 00:02:49.540 --> 00:02:50.980 How are they doing? 00:02:51.100 --> 00:02:51.840 What were they before? 00:02:52.220 --> 00:02:53.720 How is that transition going? 00:02:53.820 --> 00:02:54.540 What are the challenges? 00:02:54.680 --> 00:02:55.620 What are the issues? 00:02:56.120 --> 00:03:03.000 As we're moving more and more maybe past COVID or seeing maybe the light at the end of the tunnel, I don't want to jinx this thing. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:13.200 The reality is, is even where we are in today's culture, here in February 2021, maybe 30% to 50% of pre-COVID attendance has made it back into the building. 00:03:13.860 --> 00:03:21.800 For most churches, it seems the majority of the audience, pre-COVID audience, is still watching and engaging digitally. 00:03:22.540 --> 00:03:32.100 And so even as we're trying to transition all our energy and all our attentions back to the building in an effort to get people back into the physical space that today's church seems to be comfortable with, 00:03:32.460 --> 00:03:34.880 unfortunately, the reality is we still need to care for it. 00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:42.660 We still need to pay attention because the majority of our audience, the majority of the people that need to be connected to our church are in digital space. 00:03:42.660 --> 00:03:49.880 And having that digital pastor, digital champion is as important today, February 2021, and into the future. 00:03:49.980 --> 00:03:53.360 It's more important maybe even than it was in the past. 00:03:53.420 --> 00:03:54.660 So here's what I wanted to do. 00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:56.340 I really want to dig into this idea. 00:03:56.400 --> 00:04:05.780 We're bringing in three digital pastors, three people who, 12 months ago, they were not doing anything in this digital pastor role. 00:04:06.780 --> 00:04:08.060 They were campus pastors. 00:04:08.200 --> 00:04:09.020 They were guest services. 00:04:09.200 --> 00:04:11.200 They were next generation people. 00:04:11.300 --> 00:04:13.400 They were different roles. 00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:19.700 But in this COVID season, they've had to transition into a digital pastor. 00:04:19.900 --> 00:04:20.660 What are the challenges? 00:04:20.800 --> 00:04:21.340 What are the issues? 00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:23.280 What are the struggles that you're facing with? 00:04:23.320 --> 00:04:24.240 How's leadership working? 00:04:24.320 --> 00:04:25.860 How's volunteer recruiting? 00:04:25.980 --> 00:04:26.780 How's casting vision? 00:04:27.360 --> 00:04:40.820 Hey, if you're new in online ministry or you're thinking about getting into online ministry, this is an incredible conversation because you're hearing it from three successful digital pastors learning as they're going, trying to figure it out. 00:04:40.820 --> 00:04:43.060 And you're learning insights from them. 00:04:43.140 --> 00:04:44.880 So here's who we're bringing into the conversation. 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:51.100 Rob Schmidgel, who's the digital pastor at National Community Church in Washington, D.C. 00:04:51.940 --> 00:04:56.860 Tyler Volkers, who's the digital pastor over at Ridge Community Church up in Wisconsin. 00:04:57.400 --> 00:04:58.900 And Christian Vanderhovel. 00:04:59.040 --> 00:05:01.360 Christian, I'm pretty sure that's how I say your last name. 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:03.180 I can't even read my own handwriting. 00:05:04.220 --> 00:05:09.580 And that's the bad thing about friends on social media is sometimes you don't know how to pronounce their last names. 00:05:09.580 --> 00:05:15.180 Sorry, Christian, who's with Cornerstone Church up in San Francisco in the California area. 00:05:15.620 --> 00:05:16.560 But here's where we are. 00:05:16.640 --> 00:05:19.160 We're literally asking these guys, what are your struggles? 00:05:19.360 --> 00:05:20.700 What have you overcome? 00:05:21.480 --> 00:05:23.640 Who's been your best friend in this situation? 00:05:23.760 --> 00:05:25.180 Who within ministry is running with you? 00:05:25.220 --> 00:05:26.100 What departments get it? 00:05:26.140 --> 00:05:26.960 What departments don't? 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:29.200 How do you work through that? 00:05:29.260 --> 00:05:35.680 A lot of the tensions that's involved in this physical digital COVID season that we're in. 00:05:36.220 --> 00:05:38.040 So we got Rob, we got Tyler, we got Christian. 00:05:38.040 --> 00:05:46.620 You got myself, Jeff, with the Church Digital and Stadia Church Planning in a conversation that I'm calling Becoming That Digital Pastor. 00:05:47.060 --> 00:05:48.460 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:05:49.280 --> 00:05:52.520 Yeah, I'm Tyler Volkers at the Ridge Community Church in the Milwaukee area. 00:05:52.860 --> 00:06:04.280 And I was serving as our family ministry director, our next-gen pastor, as well as dabbling as an executive pastor at our youngest location before I became our digital pastor in the middle of 2020. 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:18.460 Well, my name is Christian Vanden Heuvel, and I serve as the church online pastor right now at my church in the California, San Francisco, East Bay area. 00:06:19.020 --> 00:06:28.800 Before that, I was a guest services director, however, I've been at my church for 20 years on staff, full-time, and I've played just about every other role. 00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:40.500 From children's ministry director, from children's ministry director to multi-site director to campus pastor to all sorts, everything and everything in between. 00:06:41.240 --> 00:06:49.480 So, but pivoted to church online only a couple days before Christmas of last year. 00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:51.580 So, I'm really new at this, you guys. 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:52.420 I don't know what I'm doing. 00:06:52.520 --> 00:06:53.080 I'm taking notes. 00:06:53.140 --> 00:06:53.580 That's what I'm doing. 00:06:54.100 --> 00:06:55.200 I'm Rob Schmidgall. 00:06:55.300 --> 00:06:59.260 I'm at National Community Church in Washington, D.C. area. 00:06:59.840 --> 00:07:04.120 And I was a campus pastor at one of our campuses. 00:07:05.980 --> 00:07:18.640 When we shifted, I just volunteered to help out with the online transition and then ended up being invited into the online pastor role. 00:07:19.620 --> 00:07:30.520 And so, I've been dual role really until the end of the year and just January, really full-time transition to online pastor. 00:07:30.820 --> 00:07:31.860 That's awesome. 00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:43.800 There's so many stories like each of yours that I've heard in this COVID season where maybe pre-COVID, January, February 2020, operating in one level. 00:07:43.940 --> 00:07:47.320 Christian, I think, was guest services as an example. 00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:54.260 And, hey, you're doing this guest services thing, and then all of a sudden COVID happens and churches are trying to pivot. 00:07:54.260 --> 00:08:11.660 They're trying to adjust to a digital framework and starting to put guys moving pastors, moving staff people, moving volunteers even from a physical role into a digital where maybe some of those areas weren't really defined for the church. 00:08:11.880 --> 00:08:30.180 Honestly, I've heard this story hundreds of times in the season, and honestly, really want to do a podcast to feature some guys that are on this walk, that are really struggling with some of these things, that are overcoming challenges, that are seeing successes, and start to tell some of their stories. 00:08:30.180 --> 00:08:40.280 It's because there's so many people out there that are operating, let's call it maybe outside of their comfort zone or maybe outside of what they themselves are used to in context of ministry. 00:08:40.280 --> 00:08:43.400 And so I wanted to bring Tyler, Christian, and Rob together. 00:08:43.820 --> 00:08:49.580 Interestingly, I think it's three different time zones across the country, different sizes, different types of churches. 00:08:49.580 --> 00:09:01.920 But all of them are developing a digital strategy, and all of them have equipped people, these three, to be a pastor in this digital space. 00:09:02.100 --> 00:09:03.560 So it's going to be a dialogue. 00:09:03.680 --> 00:09:06.180 It's going to be open-ended and kind of looking forward to the question. 00:09:06.180 --> 00:09:12.680 And I want to learn some things, maybe even organizationally, how the churches are shifting, what are the challenges of today. 00:09:13.140 --> 00:09:19.980 For many of you out there, this is an opportunity to relate, to connect with people that are going through some of the same challenges you are. 00:09:20.260 --> 00:09:22.580 So, hey, there's the pivot, right? 00:09:22.640 --> 00:09:25.560 We don't need to shy away from that. 00:09:25.640 --> 00:09:27.260 We don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. 00:09:27.260 --> 00:09:33.140 There was an issue that happened March 2020, and churches went radical. 00:09:33.420 --> 00:09:36.960 Churches adjusted, and you guys are in new positions as a result. 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:43.220 So I'm just curious, maybe from an overarching view, to start the conversation, what was that pivot like? 00:09:43.500 --> 00:09:46.860 What was it like going from your different roles? 00:09:47.320 --> 00:09:48.020 It happened. 00:09:48.200 --> 00:09:54.600 Now the church is adjusting digital, and you guys are now moving into a completely different context. 00:09:54.760 --> 00:09:56.060 So what were you feeling? 00:09:56.160 --> 00:09:58.300 What was that pivot, that transition like for you all? 00:09:58.860 --> 00:10:03.880 I'll start off just because I feel like it was so providential from our perspective. 00:10:04.580 --> 00:10:10.540 We launched Church Online by using the Church Online platform that Life.Church provides YouTube. 00:10:10.720 --> 00:10:14.180 We've been broadcasting sort of for the last, what, 10 years? 00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:18.040 But now going, how do we engage the people that are on the other side of the camera? 00:10:18.520 --> 00:10:28.120 We started that in September of 2019, and I was given 10%, 20%, 10% really, of my role as guest services director. 00:10:28.520 --> 00:10:35.760 Say, hey, can you also oversee the team there and help people feel comfortable, whoever's on the other side, and maybe find out more about them. 00:10:35.760 --> 00:10:44.680 So I started that engagement in September of 2019, started an online-only community group in January of 2020. 00:10:45.280 --> 00:10:54.240 And so when March rolled around, all of a sudden, we went from five, six campuses, we went to one campus, only the digital campus. 00:10:54.660 --> 00:10:57.380 And that was, it felt very providential. 00:10:57.460 --> 00:10:58.240 We felt ready. 00:10:58.340 --> 00:10:59.200 We felt prepared. 00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:09.180 We were able to hang on and be able to keep doing the things that we've been doing without missing any weeks, without missing any opportunities. 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.800 So it was insane. 00:11:13.120 --> 00:11:25.400 And I, you know, probably like all of you, there were weeks when there was just no day off because it was just constant, constant work and going all the way through Easter. 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:32.420 But it was a crazy pivot, and now pivoting to, hold up, are we going to keep doing this, like, forever? 00:11:32.580 --> 00:11:34.920 Are we always going to do that? 00:11:35.420 --> 00:11:38.280 That's our next challenge. 00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:45.880 Hey, Jeff, for me, we describe February 2020 as a church as really the sweet spot for ministry. 00:11:46.060 --> 00:11:48.880 I mean, things were, God was moving in the ridge. 00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:52.480 We saw, I mean, a lot of people coming, a lot of people engaging. 00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:55.500 We were very happy with the steps that others were taking. 00:11:56.880 --> 00:12:01.480 I was, I called myself in the sweet spot, the most optimal role for me. 00:12:01.580 --> 00:12:03.440 I was serving as our next-gen pastor. 00:12:03.620 --> 00:12:05.820 I've been doing that for several years. 00:12:06.200 --> 00:12:13.900 I've been on staff for the ridge for about 11 years at this point, started in student ministry and just continued to watch the ridge, just continue to grow and evolve over the years. 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:22.620 And then I was helping out one of our youngest campus as the executive pastor, thinking, hey, you know, God's got me on this growth trajectory. 00:12:23.000 --> 00:12:25.660 You know, what is God doing, you know, in me and in the ridge? 00:12:25.740 --> 00:12:27.280 Felt really, really good about it. 00:12:27.640 --> 00:12:32.420 We were doing digital ministries led by a phenomenal volunteer team. 00:12:32.480 --> 00:12:36.700 And so we had something off the ground where we were starting to engage with people digitally. 00:12:36.700 --> 00:12:47.820 We even signed on to be a futurist group with Stadia to know and say we know one of our next hills to take is digital ministry in terms of leadership, resources, strategy. 00:12:48.400 --> 00:12:57.260 But I remember March 15th was the day, and we were actually getting ready to teach later that Thursday night for the 14th or whatever that day was. 00:12:57.660 --> 00:13:03.800 And they said, Tyler, we can't have any large group, like, get services at all right now. 00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:05.460 And I scheduled to teach that weekend. 00:13:05.900 --> 00:13:08.840 And so they threw me in the empty auditorium and said, here's a camera, go. 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:10.580 And we broadcast it. 00:13:10.620 --> 00:13:15.860 I'm like, I have no idea what's going on and did not realize that that was going to be the case for several months. 00:13:15.860 --> 00:13:18.860 And then during a little bit of the pandemic, I sit on our lead team. 00:13:19.920 --> 00:13:23.620 My lead pastor just texted me, Jeff, actually some podcast episodes of yours. 00:13:24.080 --> 00:13:27.560 And he just said, hey, I want you to just listen to these and let me know what you think about them. 00:13:28.080 --> 00:13:29.900 And I said, okay, I'll do that. 00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:32.900 So I was listening to a few of them and thought, wow, this is really interesting. 00:13:33.040 --> 00:13:35.620 This is really kind of cool. 00:13:35.740 --> 00:13:45.720 And then Jeff, with his relationship with you, got me in touch with you and just began to talk about, well, what does it mean to move into the role of a digital pastor? 00:13:45.860 --> 00:13:51.820 So we were committed to saying, let's increase our leadership, let's increase our resources, let's increase our strategy. 00:13:52.460 --> 00:13:55.920 I just never thought I was going to be the guy to be asked to do it. 00:13:56.000 --> 00:14:04.960 But I fell in love with what I saw could be the opportunity to be a part of that and said, okay, let's begin to figure this out. 00:14:05.020 --> 00:14:07.160 I've been trying to figure it out. 00:14:07.540 --> 00:14:14.420 But thankfully, I've had great resources to help us kind of navigate these new waters. 00:14:15.260 --> 00:14:21.080 Yeah, for us, pre-COVID, we were throwing all our sermons up on YouTube. 00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:29.740 That was pretty much our online presence. 00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:32.800 Obviously, we had our website. 00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:40.720 But then we had been dreaming and talking about, you know, starting an online campus or community. 00:14:41.620 --> 00:14:46.880 But we had probably a two-year trajectory that we were on. 00:14:47.100 --> 00:14:49.120 And this obviously sped that up. 00:14:49.220 --> 00:14:52.220 So I think our first couple of weeks, we threw it up on Facebook. 00:14:53.300 --> 00:15:04.340 And I think by Easter, we were, we had jumped, you know, we got chopped and started going that route. 00:15:06.100 --> 00:15:12.280 And so I think from the beginning for us, we knew, hey, this is just pushing us into our future. 00:15:12.500 --> 00:15:15.620 It's just kind of pushing us there faster than we thought. 00:15:16.840 --> 00:15:23.340 And for us, I think right out of the gate, we were like, this is where we've, we were supposed to be. 00:15:23.420 --> 00:15:24.580 We should have been here. 00:15:25.340 --> 00:15:28.420 Now we're here and we're not leaving. 00:15:29.760 --> 00:15:35.820 And so it's been exciting, but we're just, we're just grabbing stuff. 00:15:36.020 --> 00:15:37.360 We're throwing stuff at the wall. 00:15:37.780 --> 00:15:39.460 We're just hanging on. 00:15:39.540 --> 00:15:45.700 I mean, this train is running and yeah, we're just barely hanging on. 00:15:45.760 --> 00:15:46.720 But it's been amazing. 00:15:46.920 --> 00:15:47.820 It's been amazing. 00:15:48.000 --> 00:15:52.440 And I'm pretty excited about what opportunities are out there. 00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.640 It's limitless for sure. 00:15:54.240 --> 00:15:54.840 That's great. 00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:57.080 Rob, I've, I've told you this story. 00:15:57.860 --> 00:16:02.620 My, my mother who's, who's been on the podcast leads two or three online small groups. 00:16:03.000 --> 00:16:10.180 She loves national community church, loves every time Mark releases a book, Mark Batterson, she's reading it. 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:14.260 She's given the copy to me already highlighted and marked up. 00:16:14.260 --> 00:16:15.800 I guess it's kind of pun there. 00:16:15.860 --> 00:16:17.320 Mark marked up, sorry, moving on. 00:16:17.920 --> 00:16:21.360 And, and, and it's honest to God, this is, this is, this is a true story. 00:16:21.780 --> 00:16:28.940 Mom's in my house, some like Wednesday night or Thursday night, um, and, uh, in the COVID season. 00:16:29.480 --> 00:16:34.300 And, uh, she, she looks at me and she says, Hey, does national community church, they do anything online? 00:16:34.300 --> 00:16:36.000 I like, I never hear about them. 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.840 And I'm like, I don't, I don't think so. 00:16:38.880 --> 00:16:42.520 I like, I, I honestly, that's, I've, they've never kind of popped up on my radar. 00:16:42.820 --> 00:16:46.240 Maybe I should look into it and something like that was Thursday night. 00:16:46.440 --> 00:16:54.300 And as God is my witness Friday, um, you messaged me on Facebook or whatever it was just out of the blue, starting to ask them questions. 00:16:54.580 --> 00:16:57.640 And I'm like, Hey mom, they're, they're, they're figuring it out. 00:16:57.720 --> 00:16:58.700 The good news they're coming. 00:16:58.800 --> 00:16:59.900 They're going to get there soon. 00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:08.140 But it's been exciting, honestly, you know, for me kind of sitting in the seat that I'm in, seeing so many churches pivot and, and adjust in the season. 00:17:08.140 --> 00:17:15.540 A Christian, you know, I mean, you, you said something in, in your, when you were talking about how, yeah, you're, you're working through how to get on. 00:17:15.840 --> 00:17:23.580 Maybe some of the question for you now is some of the, the, the, what's coming up in the horizon is, um, are we going to do this forever? 00:17:24.000 --> 00:17:30.800 And I'm just curious, like, have you guys, has your church has leadership, have they answered that question yet? 00:17:31.000 --> 00:17:37.600 Are you convinced and set that this is, I mean, I don't think there's a wrong answer to this, but are you doing it in the future? 00:17:37.600 --> 00:17:38.880 Is that in the long-term plans? 00:17:39.100 --> 00:17:40.560 Is it, no, we're not interested. 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:41.780 It's just a stop gap. 00:17:41.860 --> 00:17:44.540 Is it, we're kind of experimenting and still figuring it out. 00:17:44.600 --> 00:17:48.240 Where are each of you kind of in that long-term digital process? 00:17:49.040 --> 00:17:52.300 Of course, though, we are definitely at the throw the spaghetti against the wall. 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:53.620 I'll see what sticks kind of thing. 00:17:54.040 --> 00:17:55.900 Rob, what you said is exactly right. 00:17:55.940 --> 00:18:06.840 We're just trying to figure it out because, um, you know, we're, we are also running online church a little bit like a physical location with attendance numbers. 00:18:06.840 --> 00:18:07.800 Is that what we're measuring? 00:18:07.960 --> 00:18:10.260 Are we measuring eyeballs? 00:18:10.520 --> 00:18:12.140 Are we measuring seats and butts? 00:18:12.260 --> 00:18:13.480 Are we, what are we doing? 00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:15.880 Are we, how do you measure engagement? 00:18:16.120 --> 00:18:17.460 How do you measure a next step? 00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:19.500 How do you measure growth? 00:18:19.580 --> 00:18:20.800 How do you measure connection? 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:28.100 And I think there's, we're going to have to be doing that in a different way than we do in physical location. 00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:29.980 So pretty excited about that. 00:18:30.020 --> 00:18:37.660 But like you said at the beginning, uh, Jeff, uh, like there's, there's all these new ways to engage with people. 00:18:37.660 --> 00:18:42.360 We've, we started, uh, we opened up a discord server for people to chat throughout the week. 00:18:42.960 --> 00:18:51.720 Um, I'm, I'm opening up rooms on clubhouse every once in a while, virtual cafes, uh, everything and anything. 00:18:51.720 --> 00:19:06.500 Not necessarily to get our message out as much as, as it is to get people to come and find and connect with us on whatever device and whatever space and whatever time zone or whatever, um, time of day that they can. 00:19:06.580 --> 00:19:08.420 I think that's where discipleship happens. 00:19:08.420 --> 00:19:12.420 So, uh, I'm here for, for, yeah, I'm here for answers as well. 00:19:12.720 --> 00:19:20.740 We would say as long as, uh, we're able to connect with people and connect, uh, with our ones, um, we're, we're going to be in this. 00:19:20.740 --> 00:19:33.180 And, uh, we, we keep looking back at the research that, uh, I think Barna put out before COVID and said 60% of unchurched people were unwilling to, uh, go to a physical in-person, in-person church service. 00:19:33.480 --> 00:19:34.760 Um, and that was before COVID. 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:37.960 So, I mean, you can just assume that that number is just, just way, way up. 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:50.100 But also according to Barna research, I mean, they're willing to check out, uh, church online, um, you know, if a friend sends them a link or invites them to, uh, not just a service, but maybe there's other, you know, we've, we've been talking a lot about platform content. 00:19:50.100 --> 00:19:55.780 Can we put out that's shareable that, that are 99, um, and share with their one. 00:19:56.460 --> 00:20:00.720 And so our, our conviction is, uh, digital is just like the building. 00:20:00.720 --> 00:20:08.020 And if it works to gather people and to help them find and follow Jesus, we're in, um, and for whatever reason, um, it doesn't, okay. 00:20:08.020 --> 00:20:09.340 Then we'll, we'll look to the next thing. 00:20:09.340 --> 00:20:15.680 But right now our gut tells us this is what's going to connect with people and, uh, and it's going to help them find and follow Jesus. 00:20:15.680 --> 00:20:28.380 Now, our big question is, well, how do you leverage both the physical and the digital and create a seamless integration, uh, to allow others to experience both and still, um, take steps in their faith journey, which is what we've been working on. 00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:29.440 Yeah. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:34.040 Um, yeah, I mean, I said, we're here to stay for sure. 00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:41.000 Um, it is, it is just, it's, it's not the wild, wild west. 00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:52.040 I wouldn't call it that, um, it's just, it's like this massive open field and you're trying to figure out like, where, where are we supposed to go? 00:20:52.060 --> 00:20:52.340 Right. 00:20:52.360 --> 00:20:57.920 There's so many opportunities and it's been so overwhelming in that regard. 00:20:58.460 --> 00:21:03.400 Um, so we've really had to just decide like, what can we just do? 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:04.600 What can we do now? 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:11.840 Um, don't let the, the vastness of this opportunity keep us from doing something today. 00:21:12.520 --> 00:21:21.240 Um, and so that's really been the challenge for us is, is just to keep trying something, trying different things. 00:21:21.460 --> 00:21:26.600 Um, and, and learning from each other has been a huge thing. 00:21:26.600 --> 00:21:34.680 I mean, getting in with you guys, Jeff, and with Stadia and with some of those huddles and then, um, just talking to other pastors. 00:21:35.880 --> 00:21:46.700 Um, man, I just encourage any, any online pastors or volunteers that are out there, reach out to other guys that are doing this or, or women that are leading in this field. 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:51.240 Um, and, um, man, people are making themselves available. 00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:54.680 We're all sharing ideas and, and that's the beauty of this. 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:57.780 I feel like in a lot of ways, we know this, right? 00:21:57.820 --> 00:21:58.880 The world has shrunk. 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:13.120 Well, it has from a relational standpoint, um, for ministers too, and volunteers, like we, the way that we have opportunity to connect and learn from each other, inspire each other, encourage each other, share little ideas. 00:22:13.120 --> 00:22:15.020 Um, it's, um, it's awesome. 00:22:15.020 --> 00:22:25.780 So yeah, it's overwhelming, but it's also, um, the little victories that we're pulling off, you know, here and there are just, they're, they're huge wins. 00:22:26.140 --> 00:22:29.600 Yeah, I didn't intentionally, and I'm completely transparent. 00:22:29.860 --> 00:22:36.280 I didn't intentionally group this, but as I'm now looking at the screen, Tyler is involved in Stadia's futurist group. 00:22:36.280 --> 00:22:41.840 And so we've been working with, uh, with, uh, the Ridge, uh, as well as some others in, in deep ways. 00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:48.680 Uh, Rob with national community, you, you were part of the digital learning communities, you know, a shorter stint. 00:22:48.740 --> 00:22:55.300 And it's probably, I think it's a 10 week and Stadia is onboarding even churches in 2021 and taking them through digital learning communities. 00:22:55.760 --> 00:23:01.480 Christian's part of the Stadia Facebook group where we're connecting people together and doing this. 00:23:01.640 --> 00:23:17.100 Back when I was doing online ministry in 20, and I've talked about this on the podcast, 2015, you know, 2016, 17, um, I felt alone, honest to God, uh, because there wasn't these shared community spaces. 00:23:17.100 --> 00:23:20.040 There wasn't an opportunity to, to dialogue. 00:23:20.200 --> 00:23:33.800 Um, and when you talk to the guys like who were pioneering the Steven back in, in 2010s, the Crandas, the, uh, Neil Smith, uh, you know, those guys, uh, they'll tell you Greg Atkinson, um, they'll tell you that man, it was alone. 00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:34.620 There was a tight group. 00:23:34.720 --> 00:23:41.840 I think there were five, uh, guys across the country that were really championing digital at that time and seeing how everything has shifted. 00:23:41.840 --> 00:23:49.000 And now there's so much opportunity for training, for education, for, for resources, for, for guidance. 00:23:49.000 --> 00:23:53.020 And, and I'm not even Stadia, but outside of that, uh, is, is beautiful. 00:23:53.180 --> 00:23:56.620 See commercial, if you do want to connect with Stadia, let us know, happy to do that. 00:23:56.620 --> 00:24:16.640 Uh, now that aside, uh, it's, it's really fun to help guys like you wrestle through some of this stuff to overcome it, uh, to, to see kind of, uh, even from a long-term strategy point to even some of the stuff day to day routines that some of the, some of those kind of struggles, what, which kind of gets me to what, what are you working on right now? 00:24:16.640 --> 00:24:19.600 Like what's the, what's the, what's, what's the project? 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:20.760 What's, what's the issue? 00:24:20.760 --> 00:24:26.780 I mean, we mentioned, I think Tyler, you mentioned like the physical and digital, uh, figuring out that relationship. 00:24:27.320 --> 00:24:31.580 Um, is it the day-to-day stuff that, that you're really spending your time working on? 00:24:31.660 --> 00:24:33.520 Is it more of the long-term stuff? 00:24:33.520 --> 00:24:37.780 Like what are you physically, what's, what's taking up your time today? 00:24:38.400 --> 00:24:47.540 Jeff, uh, what we've been working on is, uh, trying to really implement that, that quote unquote, digital strategy that we we've been talking about. 00:24:47.540 --> 00:25:01.260 And, and, uh, how, how does the, how do we take our digital or our discipleship process, would you rather, and connect with our ones to help move them to ultimately a place where they're, they're multiplying and helping other people find and follow Jesus. 00:25:01.500 --> 00:25:14.740 And so with, with us, um, we, we've been doing some really hard work and big vision work over the last several months, uh, where we went and we redefined our institutional one, which we spent a lot of time with intentional churches and Doug parks and those guys. 00:25:14.900 --> 00:25:17.400 So, uh, that's where a lot of that language comes from. 00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:30.760 Uh, but what, what was so freeing for us was when we landed on, no, we, we really want to connect with the 33 year old unchurched male and, uh, his family, whatever relationship that he may have and kids. 00:25:30.880 --> 00:25:36.660 And that allowed us to really then say, okay, let's design our strategy to speak to that person. 00:25:36.740 --> 00:25:37.960 Would they connect with our service? 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:44.840 So we spent a lot of time looking at our weekly service and saying, really what we've been doing in the auditorium is really designed for the auditorium. 00:25:44.900 --> 00:25:45.740 And that's great. 00:25:45.740 --> 00:25:48.400 And that's an awesome experience for what's going on in there. 00:25:48.720 --> 00:25:58.200 Uh, but to just stream that, or even just stream parts of it, that's not necessarily the best digital experience for that man in his living room, um, or watching on a screen. 00:25:58.200 --> 00:26:13.600 And so, uh, we, we then pivoted to customizing, uh, we did some experiments, um, and now we're, we're doing a longer experiment where we're, you know, we're going to take our weekly service and just create a uniquely designed in-person and a uniquely, uniquely designed. 00:26:14.660 --> 00:26:16.540 Uh, digital, uh, digital, uh, service. 00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:18.160 Uh, so what does that mean? 00:26:18.200 --> 00:26:33.300 A couple of examples are teaching pastor for that week is giving the same message online as well as in person, but, uh, online he's speaking or she's speaking in a room similar to this right to the camera, speaking everything to, you know, just thinking through how they're consuming that. 00:26:33.300 --> 00:26:48.140 Whereas then in person, it's going to be different, but the same calls to action are going to be, uh, the exact same, uh, music we're playing with and trying to figure out how to best engage with that because our analytics tell us starting off with 20 minutes on a weekly service of music that they don't know. 00:26:48.140 --> 00:26:53.860 They don't know they're going to drop off on that and, uh, um, it's hard and that's a hard truth, but it's just what we see. 00:26:54.500 --> 00:26:57.860 Um, and so that that's some of the steps we've taken. 00:26:57.960 --> 00:27:05.400 And, but with that, that's just a piece of the bigger picture of what we've really been working on is our digital pathway and our in-person pathway to say, okay. 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:18.280 Can every call to action that we would have, if you're going to take a significant step in your faith journey, how can we make that, uh, um, in a way that can happen both in person as well as online. 00:27:18.480 --> 00:27:33.000 And so, for example, if they make a decision to follow Jesus and they let us know about it, they get the same follow-up steps again, move them into our discipleship pathway, which, uh, for us is, um, they, they get the first steps kind of sent back to them to their phone. 00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:36.100 And then we invite them into either a rooted experience. 00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:43.560 It's in person or, or online, which then funnels them into our discipleship model, which can happen in person or online as well. 00:27:44.060 --> 00:27:52.540 And, and have it be seamless where they can bounce back and forth, whether it's attend in person for services and go into a group online, um, and serve however. 00:27:52.980 --> 00:27:54.420 That's a hard thing to tackle. 00:27:54.580 --> 00:27:59.640 Uh, how about some of, some of the other, uh, others, uh, Christian, Rob, what, what are you experiencing here? 00:27:59.640 --> 00:28:01.140 What are you working on right now? 00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:02.640 Uh, which one? 00:28:03.000 --> 00:28:04.600 One of the things am I working on? 00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:08.840 I think probably the biggest thing is that vision piece. 00:28:09.100 --> 00:28:23.700 Um, you know, cause some churches are wrestling with, okay, so do we believe that, uh, you can land in our digital community and that that's, that's a, that's a final landing spot, right? 00:28:23.700 --> 00:28:29.800 Versus are we just, uh, reaching people and then plugging them into local churches. 00:28:29.800 --> 00:28:31.360 And so wrestling with that. 00:28:31.360 --> 00:28:33.400 And then, well, what do you do in the meantime? 00:28:33.400 --> 00:28:35.660 Somebody may not immediately do that. 00:28:35.660 --> 00:28:48.100 And so really trying to say, you know, you know, you think about like our vision as churches, it's all built around gathering. 00:28:49.100 --> 00:28:51.660 Everything drives towards gathering. 00:28:52.380 --> 00:28:54.480 We're not gathering, right? 00:28:54.860 --> 00:28:56.080 We're not together. 00:28:56.080 --> 00:29:15.980 And so while that has been a challenge, it has been incredibly, um, good for us because it's stripped away something that was good, but was also, um, how do you, how do I say this? 00:29:15.980 --> 00:29:32.620 I think it was also weakening some of the other areas, I think of, of what our vision was for people, because our vision, uh, a lot of times brought, you know, was about, you're going to fulfill your vision in our gathering. 00:29:32.620 --> 00:29:45.720 And there's an importance to that, but there's also a side of, of a vision for a person that is very individual and that is specific to them and is specific to how are you living right? 00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:50.400 In your COVID circle or your own personal life. 00:29:50.460 --> 00:30:05.940 I think one of our, one of our, um, sayings that we kind of came discovered in this season was, was this saying that, uh, the only ceiling on your intimacy with God and impact on the world is your daily spiritual disciplines. 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:14.160 And so we started leaning in on that and saying, how are we equipping people in their daily spiritual disciplines? 00:30:14.360 --> 00:30:19.420 And then really a lot of our digital effort was, was around that. 00:30:19.840 --> 00:30:29.640 Then it began to move to, okay, beyond that, like if we're reaching people that maybe don't, uh, know the Lord, what, and they get into their spiritual disciplines. 00:30:29.640 --> 00:30:31.260 Now what's next, right? 00:30:31.300 --> 00:30:37.880 And so leaning into more of a missional mindset for that person, how are they living on mission? 00:30:38.260 --> 00:30:50.640 And then that, the beauty of that is I think this is going to better inform us as we start to gather again, um, for what we're doing to, uh, invest in people. 00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:51.880 Cause we're still not gathering. 00:30:52.500 --> 00:31:01.080 I don't know how you guys are, but we're, since we went offline last March, we are still have not gathered. 00:31:01.660 --> 00:31:08.120 And, um, DC has, has rules and restrictions that has prevented us from being able to gather again. 00:31:08.120 --> 00:31:13.700 And so, um, it's been a challenge, but it's, it's really helped us to focus in. 00:31:13.700 --> 00:31:20.480 So I, that's kind of a broad nebulous answer to this, but I mean, I think it's just what we're working on 00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:28.360 is what is our vision for every single person long-term, not just to get from A to B, but to get from A to Z. 00:31:29.060 --> 00:31:34.440 And how are we, uh, setting people up to be able to do that when you're setting them up in the digital space, 00:31:34.440 --> 00:31:36.860 that's so much more intentional. 00:31:37.360 --> 00:31:42.860 It has to be, if you're not, you know, here, go here, here, here, then here, then here. 00:31:43.120 --> 00:31:45.700 We were, we're a very organic church. 00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:48.300 And so that's how we did church. 00:31:48.380 --> 00:31:49.540 That's how we do life. 00:31:49.540 --> 00:31:50.540 We're organic. 00:31:51.420 --> 00:31:56.420 Um, but there's just not a ton of organicness in the digital space. 00:31:56.420 --> 00:31:59.520 So it's been good for us in that regard. 00:31:59.560 --> 00:32:02.360 And that's kind of where we're, we're really leaning in right now. 00:32:02.980 --> 00:32:06.760 I give you props even on, on focusing on the strategy piece up front. 00:32:07.100 --> 00:32:12.000 If you get the strategy, uh, excuse me, if you get the vision piece up front, you get the vision 00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:14.220 settled, everything else falls into play. 00:32:14.260 --> 00:32:16.860 You have clarity putting together the rest of the puzzle. 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:18.900 It's where you don't have that vision. 00:32:19.020 --> 00:32:21.640 You don't have that finish line set. 00:32:21.760 --> 00:32:23.620 You find yourself moving in one direction. 00:32:23.620 --> 00:32:28.440 Then all of a sudden you talk about how, you know, the, the finish line shifts, uh, you know, 00:32:28.440 --> 00:32:30.520 somebody moved the cheese, so to speak. 00:32:30.520 --> 00:32:32.100 And now you're working over here. 00:32:32.100 --> 00:32:36.200 Now you're working over here, kind of moving through, but you don't have that clarity of 00:32:36.200 --> 00:32:39.140 vision to make sure that everything's aligning from the get go. 00:32:39.300 --> 00:32:43.100 So what, what an important piece really to nail that vision right from the beginning. 00:32:43.220 --> 00:32:44.140 How about you, Christian? 00:32:44.240 --> 00:32:44.980 What are you working on? 00:32:45.540 --> 00:32:50.980 Uh, same as Rob really looking at the strategy and the vision for our church. 00:32:51.520 --> 00:32:58.100 Um, I, I'm hoping that we as a church and I'm, I'm saying that for Cornerstone, but I'm also 00:32:58.100 --> 00:33:03.880 saying that for big C church that we take this pandemic and this big pause button as an opportunity 00:33:03.880 --> 00:33:09.880 and not a, uh, not something negative, but as an, as just an opportunity to say, what are 00:33:09.880 --> 00:33:17.600 we working on, um, we, our strategy to be really honest in this East Bay of California was not 00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:17.940 working. 00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:26.900 We were hitting, you know, 10,000 people in seats, whatever, but that was so far, we were 00:33:26.900 --> 00:33:29.800 able to measure about 3% of the people around us. 00:33:29.800 --> 00:33:31.780 And I'm thinking Rob, it's probably similar to you. 00:33:32.260 --> 00:33:39.840 3% of people that live in our East Bay area attend church of any kind of any kind. 00:33:40.540 --> 00:33:47.780 And so 97% of people were able to ignore us or found, find us completely irrelevant. 00:33:47.780 --> 00:33:52.960 So we're trying to figure out what do we, what are we doing going forward? 00:33:53.160 --> 00:33:55.520 We have not been in the building since March. 00:33:56.200 --> 00:34:01.860 Um, some outdoor services, tiny little ones in all five of our physical locations. 00:34:02.400 --> 00:34:05.440 And, uh, we're going, what, what are we doing with those buildings? 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:07.340 What are we going to use them for? 00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:08.860 How is it going to fit? 00:34:08.920 --> 00:34:10.340 I like what you said, Tyler. 00:34:10.440 --> 00:34:15.200 I think we're looking at something similar to say, are we producing, for lack of a better 00:34:15.200 --> 00:34:22.800 word, content just for online going forward, as well as live iterations of the expressions 00:34:22.800 --> 00:34:23.320 of church? 00:34:23.760 --> 00:34:33.760 Are we, uh, going to go less of a consumeristic individualistic type of, uh, goosebump, uh, 00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:41.600 expression or a, um, you know, a lot of smoke machine type stuff and going to more of a synagogue 00:34:41.600 --> 00:34:45.600 type thing where it, there's some teaching, but there's a lot of discussion. 00:34:45.600 --> 00:34:51.780 Uh, the room is full of tables instead of, uh, chairs and bleachers. 00:34:52.040 --> 00:34:58.840 And so that's, that's the level of rethinking we're doing and strategizing we're doing. 00:34:58.940 --> 00:35:00.240 And it's, uh, it's upending. 00:35:00.440 --> 00:35:06.020 It's upending a lot, uh, because our whole economic model is, was built around people coming. 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:10.600 We still passed bags at quarterstone at every location. 00:35:10.840 --> 00:35:15.880 Um, so how are we going to, what are people expecting? 00:35:16.040 --> 00:35:21.780 And, but we're focusing also a lot on the 97% who just don't know and don't care. 00:35:22.520 --> 00:35:29.100 97% is that like the, the, the lost percentage in, in the San Francisco area where you are? 00:35:29.340 --> 00:35:29.480 Yeah. 00:35:29.620 --> 00:35:35.580 3% of the population goes to church and we're calling church, uh, Catholic church. 00:35:35.820 --> 00:35:39.180 Uh, we'll take the, uh, synagogues. 00:35:39.220 --> 00:35:41.540 We'll take the, any kind of religion. 00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:44.500 Uh, it's, it's about three to 4%. 00:35:44.500 --> 00:35:48.020 And so that's, we're not, we're not, it's a big mission field. 00:35:48.580 --> 00:35:49.020 Absolutely. 00:35:49.160 --> 00:35:49.580 It's amazing. 00:35:49.780 --> 00:35:53.980 Yeah, it's, that, that's a great part of the great thing, but it's also overwhelming and 00:35:53.980 --> 00:35:58.640 also kind of sobering realizing that we weren't really doing that great. 00:35:59.180 --> 00:36:05.300 What has, I'm curious, what, what has like staff support, you know, there, there are churches 00:36:05.300 --> 00:36:11.760 where that have reorg where there's now a large percentage of staff that are helping in the 00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:17.040 digital space, uh, because there was, there was nowhere there and there's no physical services. 00:36:17.040 --> 00:36:19.740 So we've got all these people sitting around, not doing something. 00:36:19.740 --> 00:36:20.600 Let's do it digital. 00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:25.060 There are churches where that's not happened and it's been more volunteer support. 00:36:25.260 --> 00:36:30.380 There are churches where volunteer support's not available because of COVID and there's 00:36:30.380 --> 00:36:35.680 fear of, of like serving in physical space or lackadaisicalness, even serving online. 00:36:35.680 --> 00:36:40.340 And it's the lone guy taking the hill by himself, you know, it's kind of set an ego aside here, 00:36:40.340 --> 00:36:44.340 but tell me like what, what, what does support look like for you? 00:36:44.380 --> 00:36:49.160 You're evolving into these digital pastors who's running alongside you or you at the end of the 00:36:49.160 --> 00:36:51.040 dock by yourself, getting ready to jump in the water. 00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:56.900 I'll jump into that because we, we have started regathering our in-person since the summer and, 00:36:56.900 --> 00:37:04.840 uh, we, we've, our staff has been awesome, uh, full, uh, very flexible, uh, individual. 00:37:04.980 --> 00:37:08.580 I mean, I mean, we, we've reword several times and I don't think we're, we're completely done 00:37:08.580 --> 00:37:14.480 obviously going to, Hey, you're digital only to now you're in-person, um, and as well as 00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:15.060 having digital. 00:37:15.060 --> 00:37:19.700 And I think what we found just like, uh, many, many churches and other research, I think we've 00:37:19.700 --> 00:37:20.060 all heard. 00:37:20.140 --> 00:37:25.600 I mean, the bridge was not immune, uh, to the percentages of those coming back in person 00:37:25.600 --> 00:37:32.320 where, uh, we realized, Oh, we are very overstaffed for those who are attending in-person and very 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:36.460 understaffed for those who are just committed to, um, a digital setting. 00:37:36.580 --> 00:37:40.260 And so what we just said, uh, is, uh, two things. 00:37:40.260 --> 00:37:46.820 One, let's begin to, uh, reallocate, uh, some staff again to what, what does it mean to serve 00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:47.400 on digital? 00:37:47.700 --> 00:37:52.800 And so, uh, um, I, I mean, I have a couple of other staff individuals that are committing 00:37:52.800 --> 00:37:57.300 just being specifically, uh, working to create content and build relationships and develop 00:37:57.300 --> 00:37:57.660 others. 00:37:58.000 --> 00:38:00.740 Uh, but the second, and I think this is more significant. 00:38:00.740 --> 00:38:06.020 I think this is where many churches are going to go is it's on us to continue to lead all 00:38:06.020 --> 00:38:11.180 of our staff people, uh, to think about both and to serve both. 00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:16.160 I love, uh, what, um, uh, Crossroads in Ohio has said is that they're not campus pastors, 00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:17.520 they're, they're community pastors. 00:38:17.520 --> 00:38:20.020 And so you're going to focus on both. 00:38:20.100 --> 00:38:24.480 And so what we're beginning to kind of think about and begin to dream up and start rolling 00:38:24.480 --> 00:38:29.780 out as another, um, another reorg, so to speak, but I think this one's going to stick 00:38:29.780 --> 00:38:35.020 more for the next three to five years, uh, where you're going to see a few specialists 00:38:35.020 --> 00:38:39.940 thinking about in-person only, and then maybe a few specialists thinking about digital only. 00:38:40.220 --> 00:38:45.620 Uh, but the majority of staff is going to have to shift just like all of us and all of our 00:38:45.620 --> 00:38:50.200 lead pastors and anyone's teaching like, well, how do you serve, uh, both? 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:52.300 And I think it was a Groeschel that said it great. 00:38:52.300 --> 00:38:55.940 Hey, we're going to go all in on physical and we're going to go all in on digital. 00:38:56.260 --> 00:39:00.940 And everyone's going to think about both a little bit more moving out. 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.580 I think that's what we're going to land on over the next few months. 00:39:05.140 --> 00:39:12.560 I mean, I'm, I'm technically the only, I mean, you know, we have our IT guy and stuff like 00:39:12.560 --> 00:39:20.220 that, but, um, as far as ministry in the digital space, I'm the only one that's a hundred percent 00:39:20.220 --> 00:39:26.180 focused on that. And then everybody else is, I mean, since we're still fully digital, everybody 00:39:26.180 --> 00:39:33.900 has to write like small groups, you gotta reinvent that in the digital space. Um, some of our 00:39:33.900 --> 00:39:41.440 campus pastors are leading other, you know, efforts of community gathering in the digital space. And 00:39:41.440 --> 00:39:51.200 so I think those things are all gonna, gonna stick. Um, but yeah, it it's, everybody's got their hand 00:39:51.200 --> 00:39:59.000 in, in the pot in a good way. Um, and then, so part of my role then is, is that also that digital 00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:07.020 champion, right. Of just how am I encouraging, how am I helping them to dream and then supporting 00:40:07.020 --> 00:40:14.340 them as much as them supporting me. Um, but yeah, we're, I mean, you know, it's a digital first world 00:40:14.340 --> 00:40:21.500 and, and that's not going to change. So I think we all have to think that way. Um, and our team's 00:40:21.500 --> 00:40:26.940 been doing a good job at that. We haven't gathered again, so I don't know if things are going to 00:40:26.940 --> 00:40:34.420 change when we do, but according to Tyler, we'll still be okay. Cause only maybe what I'm curious 00:40:34.420 --> 00:40:41.600 how many, what's your attendance percentage Tyler? Yeah, that's a great question. When, uh, we were 00:40:41.600 --> 00:40:47.240 able to start regathering back in July. And at that point it was probably about 30% started coming back 00:40:47.240 --> 00:40:54.880 now, uh, now end of January, we're seeing an uptick of, um, closer to about 00:40:54.880 --> 00:41:00.980 it's the percentages are about the same. We're, we're seeing more starting to come back, but the 00:41:00.980 --> 00:41:04.260 good news is, and this is where I think we're doing everything right. Our online isn't dipping, 00:41:04.260 --> 00:41:10.640 which to me shows by grace of God, we're connecting with new people. And so, uh, so how we measure 00:41:10.640 --> 00:41:15.080 online and, and all of that, like that, that's still growing, but our in-person is growing. 00:41:15.560 --> 00:41:22.860 I'd say we're probably closer to 40, maybe 45% of where we were at, uh, before, um, a year ago. 00:41:22.860 --> 00:41:29.740 And so when you go all in, we're actually up a year ago, but in-person is, um, still around that, 00:41:29.800 --> 00:41:36.580 that 45% is what we're seeing. Yeah. It's, it seems like 30% seems to be the average of, 00:41:36.580 --> 00:41:41.380 of where we're at today. I talked with the pastor the other day who was in Phoenix. I want to say 00:41:41.380 --> 00:41:47.780 Arizona area who was more 20 to 25%. So there's some below that, that there are some, uh, above in 00:41:47.780 --> 00:41:53.000 that. And, and it's awesome. But when I, when, uh, when I talk to churches and like, I asked two 00:41:53.000 --> 00:41:56.540 questions, I'm like, Hey, what's, what's the percentage of people that, that are, that are, 00:41:56.660 --> 00:42:02.440 that are watching online versus in the room. And it's usually like a 70, 30, 80, 20 ratio. And then 00:42:02.440 --> 00:42:07.140 the follow-up question is like, how much, what's the percentage of ratio that's going towards your 00:42:07.140 --> 00:42:13.260 end service, your end building services versus like your online ministry. And, and without a doubt, 00:42:13.260 --> 00:42:20.320 it's, it's always, yeah, 90, 95, a hundred percent of, of 98% of our effort goes towards 00:42:20.320 --> 00:42:25.520 the building and like the, the, the service, the online ministry, not even just the services, 00:42:25.520 --> 00:42:30.800 the discipleship piece of it is often kind of been lost in the shuffle. And that's what's 00:42:30.800 --> 00:42:34.440 encouraging to me hearing, you know, some of you guys, you're wrestling with the long-term 00:42:34.440 --> 00:42:38.700 vision. It's not just the stop gap. You're, you're wrestling with, with how to do these things, 00:42:38.700 --> 00:42:44.640 uh, digitally. That's an encouragement to me because that's, you're developing a full functioning 00:42:44.640 --> 00:42:50.500 digital church that's complimenting, that's working alongside what's happening in physical 00:42:50.500 --> 00:42:55.660 space, whether it's kind of omni-channel where it's, you know, carbon copy, you can dance back 00:42:55.660 --> 00:43:00.120 and forth between the two, like Tyler was alluding to, or something that's self-sufficient, 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:05.120 self-sustaining, that it's reaching just a different type of person than, than the physical 00:43:05.120 --> 00:43:09.860 building can. Like, these are all things that churches like yours are, are wrestling through, 00:43:09.860 --> 00:43:15.800 uh, with this. So, well, let me ask, you know, just even as we're talking here about, um, you 00:43:15.800 --> 00:43:19.080 know, some of, some of the struggles that we're overcoming and that churches are overcoming, 00:43:19.080 --> 00:43:24.060 what's, uh, either give me one or two, both. I don't care. Uh, what's your biggest, what's 00:43:24.060 --> 00:43:29.340 the thing that you bringing you the most joy? What's bringing you the most joy in doing ministry 00:43:29.340 --> 00:43:34.980 online? Uh, maybe what's the biggest challenge that, that you're facing? Like, what are the ups and 00:43:34.980 --> 00:43:39.760 downs of, of where you guys are on a regular basis? I think, uh, some of, some of the biggest 00:43:39.760 --> 00:43:47.700 joys are seeing, uh, people who previously were not connected or not being discipled, uh, 00:43:47.700 --> 00:43:54.220 being very connected. I, I hear the line, something along the line of, I feel more connected to my 00:43:54.220 --> 00:44:01.220 church now than I have in the past all the time. Uh, it's probably because of the small 00:44:01.220 --> 00:44:07.660 group that they're in or whatever, but this thing, this screen here allows for so much transparency. 00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:14.800 It allows for people to open up in a way because maybe because they can close this laptop or turn 00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:20.860 off their screen or whatever, um, that it allows people to, to, to be really open and really 00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:27.900 transparent. I love seeing people with, um, significant disabilities, whether physical 00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:35.260 or otherwise getting involved in church where they could not, would not feel comfortable, 00:44:35.260 --> 00:44:44.820 um, or able to go to a physical building. Now say I, I can, and I am, and I, um, you know, 00:44:44.820 --> 00:44:51.500 there's, there's one gentleman, uh, who has some sort of disability. And when he started 00:44:51.500 --> 00:44:58.260 attending a small group, he was in the corner. You, the lights were off. You could see barely one eye 00:44:58.260 --> 00:45:06.380 when he had his camera on to now seeing his face and he is engaged. And, and it's the first time in 00:45:06.380 --> 00:45:12.880 the long time that he's had contact with other people. So that type of stuff fires me up. And, uh, 00:45:12.880 --> 00:45:23.080 I love seeing, um, other pastors in our church take, uh, full, um, uh, make use of the 167 hours 00:45:23.080 --> 00:45:28.440 outside of holding a microphone. I love that. And there is a lot of work to be done there because 00:45:28.440 --> 00:45:34.440 there's a lot of people who just want, they feel like that's ministry. I'm holding a microphone 00:45:34.440 --> 00:45:41.880 and eyes on our, are, are on me. And, uh, so those are some of my wins, man. I, uh, one of the things 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:52.120 I'm most excited about is our, we started, uh, a seven 14 AM prayer meeting, um, on zoom. And, um, 00:45:52.120 --> 00:45:58.520 we ended up having 101 prayer meetings last year. We gather every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 00:45:59.640 --> 00:46:06.580 101 prayer meetings. We took the number of people that attended, multiplied it by the time spent. 00:46:07.740 --> 00:46:17.280 And we prayed for what would have, what would equal out to a hundred and 800, 854 days. 00:46:17.880 --> 00:46:19.020 Oh my gosh. 00:46:19.020 --> 00:46:28.360 Prayer over two years of ongoing prayer that happened because of this. We've done prayer 00:46:28.360 --> 00:46:33.100 meetings in the past. We do 40 days of prayer, you know, every year to kick off the year, 00:46:33.220 --> 00:46:40.260 30 days, or we do Lent prayer. We'd never come close to the amount of people that can show up at 00:46:40.260 --> 00:46:46.300 7 14 for prayer. And you know what, if they got to, we usually go till 7 45, eight o'clock. If you got 00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:53.220 to cut out at, at seven 40, that's fine. You know? Um, but those kinds of things, you know, 00:46:53.220 --> 00:47:01.680 we've started, we started, uh, uh, a daily five minute podcast. We call it NCC daily. And we've 00:47:01.680 --> 00:47:07.320 created text groups around these things where, Hey, everybody listened to it on your own, drop a text 00:47:07.320 --> 00:47:14.440 when you do in your little group, um, little things like that, you know, being two weeks ago, 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:22.200 being on the, on the, you know, on zoom with someone in Berlin, Germany talking about, um, 00:47:22.640 --> 00:47:29.240 you know, about their life and just kind of coaching them through that. And then the week 00:47:29.240 --> 00:47:36.740 before that, talking to someone down in Argentina, um, crazy on the flip side of, and I'll say this, 00:47:36.960 --> 00:47:44.920 this is kind of what you were alluding to Christian, the rich are getting richer spiritually. The people 00:47:44.920 --> 00:47:54.220 who are putting in the effort in this season are growing exponentially. It's amazing. But what has 00:47:54.220 --> 00:48:02.840 been so hard for me is connecting with people who I know love the Lord with all their heart, 00:48:03.160 --> 00:48:10.300 but they'll say, I haven't watched church in three months. I just can't get into it. And I mean, 00:48:10.540 --> 00:48:18.040 I get it. Right. Um, and thank God we're connecting. Cause they're like, I need, you know, 00:48:18.080 --> 00:48:23.400 I need some, I need, I need some encouragement. I need to be held accountable. I need you to, 00:48:23.480 --> 00:48:28.620 you know, but man, that, and there are so many people who I'll reach out and just connect. And they're 00:48:28.620 --> 00:48:35.040 like, Oh yeah, I haven't watched in a month. You know, I haven't watched in six, six months. I mean, 00:48:35.760 --> 00:48:43.040 Oh, that's hard. That's the stuff that just, it, it kills you, man. But, and it's not that they 00:48:43.040 --> 00:48:48.620 haven't walked away from faith. They're not, you know, they're just, it just, they don't connect that 00:48:48.620 --> 00:48:57.200 way. And so trying to lean into how are we, how are we building that, you know, keeping that connected 00:48:57.200 --> 00:49:01.620 community together, even if you're not going to watch online, that's fine. But how are we engaging 00:49:01.620 --> 00:49:07.700 and how are we connecting? And anyways, that's just being kind of real vulnerable. I mean, it's really 00:49:07.700 --> 00:49:15.820 hard. Yeah, I can, I can relate. I can understand. Thank you for the, some of the, the transparency 00:49:15.820 --> 00:49:22.980 there. It's funny. We, we, we talk about how in digital churches, you reach a different type of 00:49:22.980 --> 00:49:27.760 person through digital methods. And, and you're, you're seeing that in the season. You're right. 00:49:27.820 --> 00:49:33.400 You're able to connect the people that are hungry, that can work this model. Like there's no limit to 00:49:33.400 --> 00:49:40.100 what they can do by, by engaging through it. But the sad reality is without the physical model 00:49:40.100 --> 00:49:45.840 working, there's a percentage that's not, that's not going to be able to connect as well. And I don't 00:49:45.840 --> 00:49:51.260 know if necessarily, you know, some people are like, it, it draws a generational line. You know, 00:49:51.260 --> 00:49:54.540 an older generation is not going to, I don't, I don't believe that. I don't think it's, it's 00:49:54.540 --> 00:49:58.900 generational. You know, I would actually, second time my mom was mentioned on the podcast. You're 00:49:58.900 --> 00:50:03.220 welcome, mom. I mean, she's 73. Like I said, she's leading, she's leading two small 00:50:03.220 --> 00:50:06.880 groups right now. And she's like trying to figure out how to ramp up and do a third. 00:50:07.720 --> 00:50:12.220 And, and it's not, and it's not old lady. She's doing it. She's like doing it with, with 00:50:12.220 --> 00:50:18.600 younger women doing like mentoring type relationships and, and just really, really rich into it. So, 00:50:18.680 --> 00:50:22.680 but there's, there are people, there are ways to engage into it. You just got to figure out, 00:50:22.720 --> 00:50:25.360 I guess, how to get there, how to connect with it. 00:50:25.360 --> 00:50:33.040 Well, our prayer meeting is, is definitely a higher age demographic. We're, I'm seeing a lot more 00:50:33.040 --> 00:50:39.880 people like my, you know, my mom, the same it's, she loves it. Right. Cause it's hard to get out, 00:50:40.020 --> 00:50:48.080 to walk from the car all the way into the church and then, you know, getting back out. So she loves, 00:50:48.420 --> 00:50:54.660 loves this. Um, but yeah, you know, you know, it's also been, um, significantly, which demographic 00:50:54.660 --> 00:51:02.180 has significantly grown is our singles. They feel way more, um, engaged. They don't feel quite as, 00:51:02.180 --> 00:51:07.500 uh, marginalized, you know, in a, in a physical church setting where it's about families and kids 00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:08.880 and all that. So. 00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:15.140 Well, cool. Um, I, Rob, I want to unpack not today, but that prayer thing, I, I'm, we're going to have 00:51:15.140 --> 00:51:19.860 another conversation. We'll, we'll, we'll dig into that. Like, I'm really intrigued. Like my first 00:51:19.860 --> 00:51:24.980 question is, do people show up in their pajamas? Like I want the honest, we'll ask that off air. 00:51:25.120 --> 00:51:26.680 We'll tease that for, for a later time. 00:51:26.760 --> 00:51:28.920 It's called video off. 00:51:30.120 --> 00:51:31.940 Okay. I got you now. 00:51:33.140 --> 00:51:35.620 I'm sipping that coffee. I'm eating my bagel. 00:51:35.620 --> 00:51:45.040 Probably 20% at max have their video on video off button. What's been the biggest surprise? Um, 00:51:45.240 --> 00:51:51.800 you know, it's some of you, Tyler was, was leaning this way. I think pre COVID, uh, Christian, 00:51:51.800 --> 00:51:58.140 you've been all over the map, uh, doing in your ministry career, Rob, you were a campus pastor, 00:51:58.140 --> 00:52:04.140 as I recall, kind of pivoted as, as a result of this. So some of you, you know, definitely lots 00:52:04.140 --> 00:52:10.140 of rich ministry career, not, not much on the digital side. What, what surprised you in this? 00:52:10.220 --> 00:52:12.600 You're like, Oh, I didn't see that coming. I didn't expect that. 00:52:13.000 --> 00:52:18.420 Uh, I'll, I'll jump in and kind of tail end off the previous question with the joy of the anytime, 00:52:18.740 --> 00:52:22.640 anywhere, any place, which has led to that surprise. Cause you guys are talking about the different 00:52:22.640 --> 00:52:27.580 generations, different stages of life, experiencing that, you know, from a personal standpoint, like, 00:52:27.580 --> 00:52:34.360 um, Jeff, I'll mention my mom as well. My family lives outside, uh, out of state and there's, 00:52:34.460 --> 00:52:39.080 they're in a spot that there's not many churches like the Ridge there. And my wife and I were like, 00:52:39.140 --> 00:52:43.400 Hey, at some point we go plant there, you know, because, but this has allowed us to connect with 00:52:43.400 --> 00:52:49.240 them. And we're seeing family members take steps. My, my wife's had family members that 00:52:49.240 --> 00:52:55.680 kids are never had an experience like we're able to provide. And now they're doing that in their homes 00:52:55.680 --> 00:53:03.540 to, uh, to see that. So I think for the surprises just in a really pleasant way of this really is 00:53:03.540 --> 00:53:07.460 anytime, anywhere, any place, people are taking steps to follow you. So I get a message on Tuesday 00:53:07.460 --> 00:53:11.680 morning from, Hey, I saw you guys talk about depression. I want to talk about that. And they're 00:53:11.680 --> 00:53:17.520 jumping in and, uh, it's been really cool, but Jeff, the other, the other big surprise I, and I just want 00:53:17.520 --> 00:53:24.700 to share, uh, just a kind of a note of gratitude for me. I was very pleasantly surprised when you said, 00:53:24.700 --> 00:53:29.440 uh, at first to me, he's like, Hey, this is a tight knit community. And just the opportunity that you 00:53:29.440 --> 00:53:35.000 and the names that you mentioned, Ray, Ben, um, all of those guys, guys that you've had on this 00:53:35.000 --> 00:53:40.980 podcast before and how open-handed you have been and saying, Hey, we're not, we're going to do 00:53:40.980 --> 00:53:44.960 whatever we can to lead our churches, but not just our churches. We're going to help all these other 00:53:44.960 --> 00:53:50.080 churches across the nation and the world figure this out and help them get going. And I think many 00:53:50.080 --> 00:53:56.240 people are following Jesus as a result of that. And so that was just really cool where anytime text 00:53:56.240 --> 00:53:59.640 message or whatnot, I mean, you guys are saying, Hey, we'll help you. We'll, we'll get this figured 00:53:59.640 --> 00:54:04.760 out. And no question was too small. No question was too big. And, uh, in other areas of ministry, 00:54:04.760 --> 00:54:10.400 it's not as open-handed like that. And so that was a very, very cool, um, 00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:16.780 thing to hear. And so thank you, Jeff. And thank you to, um, the original guys who, who allowed this, 00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.300 I think to probably be an easier transition for us than maybe what it would have been otherwise. 00:54:20.700 --> 00:54:26.400 I'll tell you a lot of that's grounded, uh, over years and decades of ministry life being told 00:54:26.400 --> 00:54:30.980 you're crazy. And so when, when somebody comes along who thinks the exact same way you are, 00:54:30.980 --> 00:54:35.100 and is asking the questions that you were asking, I don't know, five, six, seven years ago. Yeah. 00:54:35.100 --> 00:54:39.400 You want to help that guy because you're not, you're not crazy. Like I, I've not told the story 00:54:39.400 --> 00:54:43.940 before, but I remember walking into a, uh, a digital conference that was out in California, 00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:50.420 down in a Disneyland, downtown Disney. And, uh, walked into this, it was a tech church technology 00:54:50.420 --> 00:54:54.820 conference. And literally I was shocked. There were a thousand people who were asking the same 00:54:54.820 --> 00:54:58.720 questions that I was. This is back in my staff life. And this is when I really realized, wow, 00:54:58.720 --> 00:55:03.720 there's like people out there like me who are needing help, who are asking these questions 00:55:03.720 --> 00:55:09.500 and just don't have the, the, the database of names that the history, the connections to get 00:55:09.500 --> 00:55:14.940 some of these answers. So yeah, definitely love, uh, what's happening there. So how about the other 00:55:14.940 --> 00:55:20.960 two, uh, Christian, Rob, what do you guys think in, in context of maybe some surprises in this ministry 00:55:20.960 --> 00:55:28.520 shift? I love the, uh, friendships that have formed between volunteers, uh, 00:55:28.520 --> 00:55:33.900 from all over the West coast, from different countries that are now serving with us. And it's, 00:55:33.980 --> 00:55:42.980 it's the, I mean, you know, you know, that solid friendships can form online. Uh, but to see 00:55:42.980 --> 00:55:48.940 that happen and see the people come, uh, alongside each other during difficult times and hop on the 00:55:48.940 --> 00:55:55.400 phone or on a zoom, um, after just a chat turns a certain way was really, uh, really fun. And the 00:55:55.400 --> 00:56:03.120 other surprise was how many people start their journey with Jesus based on, uh, you know, 00:56:03.180 --> 00:56:09.280 watching something on their computer or mobile device and getting a chance to baptize them and 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:15.180 start. It's been, it was one of those aspirational things that you start when you talk about church 00:56:15.180 --> 00:56:19.640 online, like, Oh, we can, you know, we can, and people will, you know, accept Christ. And to see 00:56:19.640 --> 00:56:28.100 that actually happen because they were sent a link teenagers, um, all, all ages, it has been really 00:56:28.100 --> 00:56:34.160 surprising and very, very cool. Yeah. I think on the positive surprises, I'm, I'm echoing what these 00:56:34.160 --> 00:56:43.640 guys are saying about just the openness of, of the community to, to be available. Um, on the, the, 00:56:43.640 --> 00:56:53.520 uh, maybe more difficult surprise that I didn't see coming was, was how difficult it, it is to minister 00:56:53.520 --> 00:57:04.200 to, to kids. At least it has been for us. Um, I mean, we're doing all the videos and, um, you know, 00:57:04.200 --> 00:57:12.120 but like kids being able to engage with the teacher we're trying on, on zoom, we're doing small groups 00:57:12.120 --> 00:57:19.260 with kids and, but it's just, it's been harder than I anticipated. You know, I figured, Hey, we just 00:57:19.260 --> 00:57:26.260 make a cool video and kids and parents will love it. Um, but I think parents are really feeling the loss 00:57:26.260 --> 00:57:34.700 of, of, of that, those other voices into their kids lives. Um, and so that's been a real surprise 00:57:34.700 --> 00:57:42.560 kind of to me that, that it's, it's so difficult to figure out. So we're still again, throwing spaghetti 00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:48.800 against the wall, trying to, to get it, but, uh, that's been a tough surprise. 00:57:49.260 --> 00:57:55.520 Rob, yeah, we, we've had that similar surprise as well. And I wonder just kind of thinking as a former 00:57:55.520 --> 00:58:01.480 next gen guy, um, all that staff is trying to pivot real hard to get, you know, the videos up and the 00:58:01.480 --> 00:58:07.240 videos up. And, uh, I was talking with our kids team the other day and I'm like, you know, just use an 00:58:07.240 --> 00:58:12.980 orange, for example. And I think you guys are an orange church as well. Uh, Hey, their goal is never to 00:58:12.980 --> 00:58:17.640 put a video out in front of a kid. Um, the goal, the strategy really is, well, how do you get a small 00:58:17.640 --> 00:58:23.940 group leader and a parent partnering together, uh, to influence a kid? And so maybe it's not the 00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:27.000 goal. Maybe it's not the goal to get the video out. Maybe the goal is, well, how do we leverage 00:58:27.000 --> 00:58:31.500 these digital tools to partner with a parent and to partner with a small group and just introduce 00:58:31.500 --> 00:58:36.720 each other? Maybe it's not YouTube. I, I don't know. I mean, we're starting to just try to hit the 00:58:36.720 --> 00:58:42.120 groundwork going too, because that was the area I noticed that was obviously the easiest when you 00:58:42.120 --> 00:58:47.300 start regathering in person to push digital to the side again. Cause now you're like, now we got to, 00:58:47.640 --> 00:58:53.520 do small groups and CDC protocols and all of this stuff. And, and it was the easiest to kind of 00:58:53.520 --> 00:58:57.220 start walking away. And I'm like, hold on, hold on guys. Let's, you know, let's start kind of 00:58:57.220 --> 00:59:02.720 gathering around and let's start rethinking this because, um, cause you're right. And it can feel 00:59:02.720 --> 00:59:11.560 lonely, um, but not offering that. Yeah. For me, kids was the, um, my surprise of, of COVID. Um, 00:59:11.560 --> 00:59:16.760 I'm, I'm church ass. I remember I was doing a webinar and, and one of like, um, kids is not 00:59:16.760 --> 00:59:23.300 even on my radar. Um, and, and I, I've done kids ministry online back in like 2017. So like, 00:59:23.300 --> 00:59:28.400 it wasn't, but it wasn't, it's, it just wasn't urgent, you know, in the grand scheme of my life, 00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:33.360 uh, in pre kind of as COVID was starting up. And I remember that question came across 00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:39.400 in a, in a webinar I was leading and I saw it and it kind of like blew it off. And then like 00:59:39.400 --> 00:59:43.760 three more people asked the same question, kind of upvoted it in the thing. And it's like, 00:59:44.160 --> 00:59:48.740 oh, I guess I'm going to have to address this one and gave some, some fluff answer. They didn't like 00:59:48.740 --> 00:59:53.260 it in just four months. What do we do with the kids? What do we do with the kids? What do we do 00:59:53.260 --> 00:59:57.780 with the kids? It's, it's just been that, that repeating pattern. Uh, I love churches that are 00:59:57.780 --> 01:00:03.680 experimenting with it. I think the, I don't know that there's a really good lesson here. I don't think 01:00:03.680 --> 01:00:09.340 there's a solid answer. There's no secret sauce, but it's don't it's, you have to think 01:00:09.340 --> 01:00:14.660 different than what you're doing in the current space. Like, you know, I'll throw like the, uh, 01:00:14.660 --> 01:00:19.120 and, and this, this may be crazy and, and I'm, I'm kind of crazy, but like the, uh, Robloxian 01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:23.840 Christians, uh, Daniel Aaron's been on the podcast. It's actually the most listened podcast by the 01:00:23.840 --> 01:00:28.860 church digital, uh, Daniel Aaron talking about the Robloxian Christian church that he started when he 01:00:28.860 --> 01:00:34.760 was 11 years old and just recently handed it off to somebody else because it was weird for a 20 year 01:00:34.760 --> 01:00:41.120 old to be in Roblox. And now like some 16 year old girl is running this, this church that has impacted 01:00:41.120 --> 01:00:46.560 a last, last count I heard was like somewhere around 60,000 people over the span of, of nine 01:00:46.560 --> 01:00:52.440 years. Ridiculous. But it's not, Hey, let's, let's do like this physical church service, do it, do it 01:00:52.440 --> 01:00:58.680 digitally. It's a completely separate thing. And so like the people that I've seen be successful 01:00:58.680 --> 01:01:05.680 are like that, uh, there are churches that are now doing like established churches. Bayside in 01:01:05.680 --> 01:01:10.360 California is, is one of them trying to get connected with, but they've got a Robloxian 01:01:10.360 --> 01:01:15.840 campus and their kids ministry is run by kids and students. And that's happening, um, in, in that 01:01:15.840 --> 01:01:21.320 environment or, you know, the guys who, who's the, the YouTube crew that does all the, like the 01:01:21.320 --> 01:01:27.200 basketball, like 50 miles away. You know, it's, it's the goofy stuff on, on YouTube. Uh, Tyler 01:01:27.200 --> 01:01:34.060 Sansom does this stuff where he's, um, they utilize YouTube to connect with the kids or 01:01:34.060 --> 01:01:39.380 with adults or different things, not preaching the gospel in the content, but using it to 01:01:39.380 --> 01:01:44.240 develop relationship through the social media network of YouTube and then connecting them 01:01:44.240 --> 01:01:47.700 to the church through that relationship where you said, Jeff, where you said like, it's 01:01:47.700 --> 01:01:53.500 about relationships. I think that we've got, it's all about relationship. When Tyler just 01:01:53.500 --> 01:01:58.620 said, thank you so much for sharing everything that you had. When, when, when first we were 01:01:58.620 --> 01:02:03.840 locked in, we were, uh, some people around me were nervous that everybody was just going 01:02:03.840 --> 01:02:12.080 to watch Mark Patterson or Andy Stanley or Jeff or whoever, you know, um, Groschel. And, and 01:02:12.080 --> 01:02:18.480 that's not the case. That's people are still wanting to connect with us because we have a relationship. 01:02:18.480 --> 01:02:21.440 And so we have to be in all these space. We have to be in world blocks. We have to be on 01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:25.760 Facebook. We have to be in YouTube. It's driving us crazy to think that we're have to be on 01:02:25.760 --> 01:02:34.360 TikTok as a church. My gosh, do we have to, and all of it to have that relationship. And how do we 01:02:34.360 --> 01:02:41.280 multiply that? How do we not kill ourselves? And by, by spreading ourselves too thin. But I think 01:02:41.280 --> 01:02:46.540 it's been so surprising too, to me, um, like Tyler, what you said that everybody's so open 01:02:46.540 --> 01:02:53.140 to go, come see what we do, do what we do, use what we have. And, and it doesn't mean that we're 01:02:53.140 --> 01:02:58.580 all going to the, to that one spot, to that one preacher, to that one experience. We actually see 01:02:58.580 --> 01:03:05.760 even more iterations, um, get created. And I think the interesting challenge for churches like yours, 01:03:05.760 --> 01:03:09.700 I would say this, I think the next step for you, and it's interesting, I'm going to build 01:03:09.700 --> 01:03:16.160 Christian on that example right there. I got to get my church on TikTok. I don't know anything 01:03:16.160 --> 01:03:21.860 about TikTok. What's this clubhouse thing? My gosh, they come out with new parlor was a thing and 01:03:21.860 --> 01:03:26.200 then it went away. Okay. It's good. Now it's bad. I got, since you're coming out with so much new 01:03:26.200 --> 01:03:32.020 stuff, how am I supposed to keep up at some level? And I haven't seen a lot of churches do this, 01:03:32.020 --> 01:03:39.040 but I think this is the challenge. At some point you've got to let go of being the ones to go and 01:03:39.040 --> 01:03:45.400 do your voice on those platforms. What I mean by that is find three strong Christians that understand 01:03:45.400 --> 01:03:52.700 what it is to make a disciple in your church and invite them to go tackle TikTok. Invite someone 01:03:52.700 --> 01:03:58.240 else to develop your strategy for, for clubhouse. Okay. Maybe stay away from parlor. I don't even 01:03:58.240 --> 01:04:03.840 know if it's up yet, but back up yet. I don't know political hate mail, please, but find ways to 01:04:03.840 --> 01:04:10.520 empower others to go be that voice. You're there. There's so many opportunities digitally. And this 01:04:10.520 --> 01:04:16.080 is the thing. I don't think the church is really grasped yet. We are a lid in the digital space 01:04:16.080 --> 01:04:23.700 because it's so easy to do instead of us, our institutional voice building off of Tyler and his 01:04:23.700 --> 01:04:29.180 content with intentional churches. Instead of our institutional voice being the one that everybody 01:04:29.180 --> 01:04:33.760 hears, which by the way, they don't care about our institutional voices. Individuals have the power. 01:04:34.220 --> 01:04:41.320 Let's get individuals out there. Let's, I'm more interested in four. Oh yeah. I'm more interested 01:04:41.320 --> 01:04:46.600 in four digital disciples getting into TikTok than North National Community Church getting into TikTok. 01:04:46.700 --> 01:04:54.280 Mark Batterson. Okay. Maybe Mark Batterson doing a 60 second TikTok dance. I would be interested in 01:04:54.280 --> 01:04:59.640 that. Make that happen. We're not happening. Okay. But get some digital missionaries out there. Get 01:04:59.640 --> 01:05:04.500 somebody who understands that culture to do it and empower these individuals to do something. There'll 01:05:04.500 --> 01:05:09.340 be more, and then funnel it into your digital church, whatever that looks like. That, that to me would 01:05:09.340 --> 01:05:13.700 be the goal. What do you guys think about that? Yeah. We're, that's our thought right now where we're 01:05:13.700 --> 01:05:19.480 also looking at equipping kind of like the micro movement as well. Like, Hey, you know, how do we 01:05:19.480 --> 01:05:24.720 equip people to, you know, gather their neighborhoods and do this? Well, we can take that same training. 01:05:24.820 --> 01:05:31.500 This is our thought process is do that same thing for individuals to wherever they're at online and 01:05:31.500 --> 01:05:36.540 then invest in their ones online as them as an individual. We have a lady who attends our church 01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:43.760 who has done very, very well with some social network marketing company. If I said the company, 01:05:43.860 --> 01:05:49.560 you would be very familiar with it, I think. And, and she just told me, she's like, if people want 01:05:49.560 --> 01:05:54.720 that brand, they can just go on that website and buy the brand. I have to get them to trust me as an 01:05:54.720 --> 01:06:00.680 individual before that, that brand. And she's just done an incredible job with that. And so I think the 01:06:00.680 --> 01:06:06.260 next challenge of what we're working on, Jeff, you're, you're dead on is how do we equip our 99, 01:06:06.760 --> 01:06:12.320 those who, who call the Ridge their home, but call themselves followers of Jesus to connect with 01:06:12.320 --> 01:06:20.920 their ones relationally and invest in them. Not just in, at the gym or at the schools or in their 01:06:20.920 --> 01:06:27.800 neighborhoods, which they need to do, but in, in their own online community that they are. So if they're 01:06:27.800 --> 01:06:32.220 going into their local community, Facebook groups and building relationships, their school or 01:06:32.220 --> 01:06:37.920 with, you know, running or whatever, you know, like to develop relationships there, we give them the 01:06:37.920 --> 01:06:43.580 tools to then begin to interact and, and help them follow Jesus and do their own things there. Yeah, 01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:50.640 I agree. 50, 50 year old lead pastors should not be dancing on TikTok. I don't think that would be a 01:06:50.640 --> 01:06:56.420 great idea at all. But if we take those opportunities to say, no, here's how you as students or 01:06:56.420 --> 01:07:03.680 20 somethings to do this, um, in a way that builds genuine relationships, I think, I think can help 01:07:03.680 --> 01:07:08.440 just continue to grow God's kingdom. I don't know how much of a, of a, of a conversation is this for 01:07:08.440 --> 01:07:16.960 you and your church or with leaders, but I think we have to stop moving away from making all these 01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:24.480 online iterations of church, just the way to funnel them to come into one of our rooms and have some 01:07:24.480 --> 01:07:31.540 sort of worship experience. It's great. That's a great goal. But I think if we change it to say, 01:07:31.600 --> 01:07:39.060 no, we are just using all these tools to help you create meaningful discipleship relationships 01:07:39.060 --> 01:07:47.200 in person or not, we're going to help disciple you. And that ultimately is going to lead to in-person 01:07:47.200 --> 01:07:54.460 change for you and your community. But I'm not sure if that's going to be in big auditoriums all the 01:07:54.460 --> 01:08:02.100 time, or as an ultimate goal. I would think the pendulum is shifting. Um, I think that you're, 01:08:02.200 --> 01:08:08.100 you're going to see more comfortability in that digital space right now. There's still, 01:08:08.100 --> 01:08:14.600 we want to drive people to, to the building. Um, the building itself is under turmoil. Um, 01:08:14.680 --> 01:08:20.700 honestly, you're, you're ones, you're people who are called to Christ Christian, the 97s that are in, 01:08:20.700 --> 01:08:25.940 uh, San Francisco. I think they're going to treat the church like they would a movie theater. 01:08:26.280 --> 01:08:31.180 If, if they are comfortable enough to go into a movie theater, a strange building, 01:08:31.400 --> 01:08:38.020 sit in a chair for two hours and watch, okay, not an Avengers movie, just watch some random movie. 01:08:38.300 --> 01:08:43.060 If they can do that, I think there's still a chance for the church. If we can't even get them to shell 01:08:43.060 --> 01:08:49.380 out 15 bucks to go sit and watch a popcorn flick. Uh, I, I don't think we're going to see evangelism 01:08:49.380 --> 01:08:53.860 happen. Now there may be other things that can happen in the building, but I don't think that the 01:08:53.860 --> 01:08:59.120 evangelistic part of, of our church strategy is going to exist in that building on, on the one hour on 01:08:59.120 --> 01:09:03.900 Sunday. Hey, just as we're, as we're wrapping up here, this has been an awesome conversation. Let's 01:09:03.900 --> 01:09:10.100 is, is online ministry like for, for you personally, church, you know, they're figuring out some of the 01:09:10.100 --> 01:09:15.440 long-term vision, what this looks like. I'm just curious for you, like, is, is this your, your whole 01:09:15.440 --> 01:09:21.060 hog? You're in this, is this, you know, you're not sure long-term if this is online or, or if it's 01:09:21.060 --> 01:09:28.220 physical kind of what's your temperature at this point, you know, February, 2021, what does it look 01:09:28.220 --> 01:09:32.180 like for you long-term? Is this, is this the long-term or you're still working that through? 01:09:32.460 --> 01:09:36.420 Let me, let me see what my GameStop stock is at right now. 01:09:36.420 --> 01:09:38.840 Well played. Well played. 01:09:39.840 --> 01:09:47.460 Yeah, man, I'm in it, dude. This, this is phenomenal. I love just the opportunity that's 01:09:47.460 --> 01:09:55.220 out here. Um, I love, you know, the people that are in this space and it, it, there's no, 01:09:55.580 --> 01:10:02.660 there is no age limit. There are limits with someone's age on what they'll do, but there's 01:10:02.660 --> 01:10:12.660 no limit to any age being involved at some level in this space. And so it's just, it really is 01:10:12.660 --> 01:10:19.800 exciting. And I'm, I'm, I just, man, I just have to keep myself focused because I can, there's so 01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:24.200 many potential, right? Like we were talking about so many things we could do. So I'm trying to be like 01:10:24.200 --> 01:10:31.480 focus. Um, yes, yes. A hundred percent. This is, this is the future. This is now. 01:10:31.480 --> 01:10:38.060 I want to echo everything Rob just said. And, and I want to say that field that you talked about at 01:10:38.060 --> 01:10:45.680 the beginning, Rob, like it's just a vast open field, uh, that's just ripe for harvesting. I'm 01:10:45.680 --> 01:10:52.200 so in that. And if I could do this for the rest of my ministry career, I think it'd be a huge win, 01:10:52.200 --> 01:10:57.120 uh, because there's so much to be discovered. There's so much to be developed so much to be found 01:10:57.120 --> 01:11:00.540 out that, um, sign me up, sign me up. 01:11:00.880 --> 01:11:05.560 Love it. You know, Jeff, I'm laughing because a year ago, I had no idea what like an online campus 01:11:05.560 --> 01:11:09.760 pastor or digital pastor was. And, and here we are, you know, kind of going through the transition. 01:11:09.760 --> 01:11:16.120 I think, uh, for, for me, the joke around me, as long as I've been on staff at the Ridge for, 01:11:16.200 --> 01:11:20.440 you know, last 11 years, I've just been wired in a way to, uh, just kind of come into something 01:11:20.440 --> 01:11:25.460 that's been started, build it up, build systems, implement a strategy, and then find the next 01:11:25.460 --> 01:11:30.220 person, hand it off and go and do that. I don't know if that's the case for online. I think online, 01:11:30.460 --> 01:11:34.940 uh, there's a lot of ground to cover. There's a lot of work yet to be done. And it's probably going 01:11:34.940 --> 01:11:40.920 to, um, do this. I can say the Ridge is definitely in on this long, long term. And I'm planning on, 01:11:40.920 --> 01:11:45.000 uh, like I mentioned earlier, all of us have to continue to think about this more and more. 01:11:45.000 --> 01:11:50.680 So I think so. Um, I just, uh, as my job description changes about every two to three years, 01:11:50.740 --> 01:11:55.720 who knows, uh, what that, what that could mean, but, um, we're committed as a church where we always 01:11:55.720 --> 01:12:01.960 say, Hey, um, as long as it's helping people, we're going to do it. And we, we think digital 01:12:01.960 --> 01:12:05.840 is doing that right now. Hey, you're every two to three years. I mean, there were parts of my 01:12:05.840 --> 01:12:09.720 ministry career where it was every two to three months. I had a different role. I think Christian 01:12:09.720 --> 01:12:14.200 can probably agree with that. It sounds like with his history, but, uh, that's, that's awesome. 01:12:14.200 --> 01:12:19.260 I, and I've loved, I loved seeing each of your churches, uh, work through this and, and, uh, 01:12:19.260 --> 01:12:24.360 each of you individually kind of, kind of grow and develop in ministry. And so looking forward to 01:12:24.360 --> 01:12:31.600 more conversations, uh, in, in the days, weeks and months ahead, because what's COVID's a marathon. 01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:36.880 I feel like we said that 10 months ago, COVID's a marathon. And, and we're, I think we're on mile 01:12:36.880 --> 01:12:43.400 10 of what is still a long road ahead of us here. So looking forward to, um, honestly, 01:12:43.400 --> 01:12:50.900 be in that water guy, uh, next to the barrel at, at mile marker, 11.4 saying, Oh, you just got another 01:12:50.900 --> 01:12:55.080 15 miles. You're fine. Keep going. You're good. You're good. You got it. Keep going. It's pretty 01:12:55.080 --> 01:12:59.500 much where I am at this point. Keep going. You're good. Hey, this has been a great time as we're 01:12:59.500 --> 01:13:04.460 landing the plane. Uh, any, any closing thoughts? Um, Christian, anything from you wrapping up? 01:13:04.460 --> 01:13:10.760 No, I just, I hope we can continue this, uh, close knit community, even if it, when it grows, 01:13:10.760 --> 01:13:15.360 that we keep ourselves available to help one another out. There's so many questions that 01:13:15.360 --> 01:13:22.140 you, you, Jeff and Jay, like just problems you've already solved. And it's super helpful for those 01:13:22.140 --> 01:13:27.220 of us who were just getting started. So I hope we can keep that going and, um, and that we can, 01:13:27.220 --> 01:13:33.900 yeah, keep our, keep our, um, our phones, uh, right next to our, our, us ourselves to, uh, to answer the 01:13:33.900 --> 01:13:39.200 call. Awesome. That's exact. Keep, keep the thumbs on the, on the, on the keyboard. Just, just keep, 01:13:39.640 --> 01:13:43.980 could you imagine doing this without the Apple iPhone? I just, I want to, sometimes I rip Apple 01:13:43.980 --> 01:13:50.620 on the show a little too much maybe, but like without internet, without the iPhone, I could not 01:13:50.620 --> 01:13:56.220 imagine the church dealing with the pandemic in this, in this season. Like I think God brings 01:13:56.220 --> 01:14:00.660 opportunities in and amongst everything. And I think I would say helping for our, for our churches 01:14:00.660 --> 01:14:06.400 with Slack, if we made the move to Slack about two years ago, I don't know if we would have survived 01:14:06.400 --> 01:14:11.740 without Slack. So if you're not using Slack as an organization, when everybody's in different, 01:14:11.740 --> 01:14:17.600 uh, physical locations, it is, it's a lifesaver. Yeah. I, I would, I would echo that Slack's a big 01:14:17.600 --> 01:14:22.960 win. Rob, Tyler, any, any closing thoughts here as we're wrapping up? I just, uh, keep going. 01:14:23.360 --> 01:14:27.740 Everyone's doing great. I mean, we're trying new things and just stay agile and lead with vision. 01:14:27.740 --> 01:14:32.180 I think, uh, as we continue to try new things and see new things, you're going to face opposition. 01:14:32.180 --> 01:14:37.980 You're going to face pushback. Um, but remembering the why and the why is what we try, you know, 01:14:37.980 --> 01:14:43.160 it's just continually with vision and, uh, you'll keep doing great. Awesome. Well, well said Rob. 01:14:43.280 --> 01:14:48.140 I think I would leave everybody with, if they have any questions, reach out to Tyler or Christian and 01:14:48.140 --> 01:14:55.880 they'll help you out. Um, no, thanks Jeff, just for creating this space, man. And for, 01:14:55.880 --> 01:15:02.040 for being the crazy weirdo who thought about doing this five years ago or 10 years ago, 01:15:02.040 --> 01:15:08.740 whenever you were doing it. And, um, yeah, just so thankful for, for just the, 01:15:08.740 --> 01:15:14.940 the circle of people that you've pulled together to, to make available for people. So, um, 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:20.680 Hey man, keep trying everybody. We're going to, we're, we're making a difference. We're going to 01:15:20.680 --> 01:15:25.860 make a difference and just want to encourage everyone to keep plugging away, man, and, and, 01:15:25.860 --> 01:15:28.780 and stick with it. So thanks, Jeff. 01:15:29.020 --> 01:15:33.780 That's awesome. Hey, so we're going to wrap on this once again. Thank you to, to Tyler, Christian 01:15:33.780 --> 01:15:38.340 and Rob for jumping on, on, on the podcast here. Great time dealing, talking with this panel, 01:15:38.340 --> 01:15:42.960 um, towards, you know, what's next and, and seeing them, them grow and develop their, 01:15:42.960 --> 01:15:48.520 their churches and them themselves as, as digital and online pastors. So we're going to wrap 01:15:48.520 --> 01:15:54.660 and, uh, we will be talking about this, uh, I'm sure again, and continuing here on the podcast, 01:15:54.660 --> 01:15:59.440 but for Tyler, Christian, for Rob, this is Jeff with the church, digital stadia church planting. 01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:03.200 Thanks again for joining us here on, on the pod. And we'll see you next time here at the show. 01:16:03.420 --> 01:16:04.020 Y'all have a good day.