WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.440 Hey everybody, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast and we are kicking off today. We're 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:09.920 having a conversation on production. Last week, Steve Kaminsky with Portable Church Industries 00:00:09.920 --> 00:00:15.880 joined us as we were talking a lot, call it basic broadcast 101. We talked a lot about 00:00:15.880 --> 00:00:22.420 smaller churches or maybe new churches that are diving in to starting broadcasting online and what 00:00:22.420 --> 00:00:27.800 it looks like to kind of put that church service online as a new church or new organization getting 00:00:27.800 --> 00:00:32.200 dirty into it. And so we've been blessed this week to have Steve Kaminsky, longtime friend, 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:36.780 coming back on the show. Hey Steve, man, why don't you just share a little bit about yourself? 00:00:37.900 --> 00:00:42.720 Well, you probably heard a little bit last week. I've spent a good portion of my life involved in 00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:49.980 doing church production. Large church, small church, spent a short time on the road as a touring roadie, 00:00:50.300 --> 00:00:56.100 which was a blast, but no way to have a family. And now I have actually been blessed to take 00:00:56.100 --> 00:01:01.780 both my experiences as a church tech guy and as a touring roadie and utilize it to help churches that 00:01:01.780 --> 00:01:06.240 are doing portable environments. So I'm a design consultant with Portable Church, which means I 00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:13.260 get to help folks that aren't blessed with a facility to spread the gospel inside schools, theaters. 00:01:13.660 --> 00:01:18.120 Heck, we even have a church that meets in a train station on Sunday mornings. So we get to do a lot of fun 00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:19.120 stuff in cool places. 00:01:20.120 --> 00:01:25.980 So I'm guessing a church that meets in a train station is a lot different than, what was it, 00:01:26.120 --> 00:01:27.080 Toad to Wet Sprocket? 00:01:28.440 --> 00:01:28.880 Yes. 00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:34.660 Was that it? Yeah, I'm trying to go back. Toad to Wet Sprocket, good times. Good stuff. I was actually 00:01:34.660 --> 00:01:37.560 listening to him on the radio the other day, and every time I hear them, I'm thinking, hey, 00:01:37.980 --> 00:01:43.780 Steve used to travel with those guys. So it was Toad, right? I'm not confusing the bands. Good. 00:01:44.120 --> 00:01:49.200 So in addition to Steve joining us today, and super glad to have him back, we've got some guys from 00:01:49.200 --> 00:01:54.480 Living As One coming on the show today. And I don't know, maybe you're in multi-site world or doing 00:01:54.480 --> 00:01:59.440 church online, but I'll tell you, this product is really taking the church world by storm and 00:01:59.440 --> 00:02:06.980 redefining what video teaching and internet broadcast looks like. And so we've got Colin Jones and Paul 00:02:06.980 --> 00:02:12.740 Martel, who are a lot of the brain power behind Living As One right now joining us, and they're both 00:02:12.740 --> 00:02:17.840 coming on the show. So hey, Colin, man, let's start with you. Just tell us a little bit about yourself 00:02:17.840 --> 00:02:22.120 and maybe give us an overview of what Living As One is. 00:02:22.600 --> 00:02:26.540 Yeah, thanks so much, Jeff. We love the podcast and love your work, and also love Steve and 00:02:26.540 --> 00:02:30.460 Portable Church and their big partner. And we actually used them when we were church tech guys 00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:36.620 as well. So when we used to be church tech guys about six years ago, we created Living As One 00:02:36.620 --> 00:02:40.660 of our own need for our church. And so before it was ever a company, and that's why the name's Living 00:02:40.660 --> 00:02:45.840 As One, it sounds like a marriage conference. And we get that a lot, but it was because it wasn't 00:02:45.840 --> 00:02:50.520 intended to be a company. And so we had three campuses at the time at Chase Oaks in Dallas, 00:02:50.520 --> 00:02:55.400 and we were trying to figure out how to do multi-site and web. And our internet would go out randomly, 00:02:55.400 --> 00:03:01.660 and the stream would stop. And so we patented and invented a new protocol, some volunteers. And so 00:03:01.660 --> 00:03:07.240 it's the first protocol and solution that can work over public internet really well. So it eliminates 00:03:07.240 --> 00:03:13.140 things like buffering wheels and pixelation and jitters. And so previously, churches had to pay, 00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:16.820 you know, hundreds of thousand dollars for a solution. Now they just pay a couple thousand 00:03:16.820 --> 00:03:22.660 to get really, really high quality, the same quality we'd see at the CPS or a new station or whatever 00:03:22.660 --> 00:03:28.460 that is. So that's why Living As One's technology has grown so fast. And then we're all still church 00:03:28.460 --> 00:03:33.480 guys and didn't change our name, which we should have. And so that's kind of an overview. We have 00:03:33.480 --> 00:03:39.880 solutions for both multi-site and web. And it just specializes in internet delivery. So with, 00:03:39.880 --> 00:03:45.200 and over, you know, different dedicated solutions. So if you have, you know, any type of internet 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:48.320 connection is going to have problems. And so with a web stream, you're probably used to 00:03:48.320 --> 00:03:53.600 buffering wheels and different aspects like that. And so ours is a really simple solution that solves 00:03:53.600 --> 00:03:59.960 that. And that's why it's grown. That's awesome. And Paul, man, you were there like with the company 00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:06.120 from, from the get go, right? Like when, when you had these idea, this idea of doing something at the 00:04:06.120 --> 00:04:11.580 small, did you, did you think this would, would blow up and explode and, and become what it's become? 00:04:11.680 --> 00:04:14.480 Like, what's it been like to see this idea come to fruition? 00:04:15.180 --> 00:04:19.540 That's been pretty cool. I mean, I remember like early on in the years, just sketching out 00:04:19.540 --> 00:04:24.180 what it would be like if churches could be able to, you know, distribute their message or share 00:04:24.180 --> 00:04:30.560 messages with other churches or just with themselves across huge spans of geography, you know, different 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:35.400 states and different countries. And so I remember this like napkin sketch I have, it's like basically 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:39.100 just like these little circles representing the churches and connecting the lines to them. And 00:04:39.100 --> 00:04:45.100 um, and so it's, it's been pretty amazing seeing it come from that napkin to, uh, serving, you know, 00:04:45.140 --> 00:04:50.980 400 multi-site churches across the world really, uh, and seeing that product really come into play and 00:04:50.980 --> 00:04:55.420 making it super easy and accessible for them to do that. It's pretty amazing. Yeah. It's, it's been 00:04:55.420 --> 00:04:55.880 quite a ride. 00:04:56.660 --> 00:05:01.480 That's, that's awesome. Well, I'll tell you as a guy who's launched a dozen multi-site campuses in 00:05:01.480 --> 00:05:08.120 my lifetime and have clients who have done, you know, far surpassed that. Um, living as one as a 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:13.580 product to me is, is revolutionized and has saved so much money. I've literally been the guy who has 00:05:13.580 --> 00:05:18.440 not been able to sleep on a Saturday night in fear of a video teaching solution. That's not going to 00:05:18.440 --> 00:05:23.920 work Sunday morning. And to see the stability of, of some of that stuff happen, you know, just living 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:29.600 as one, I, I cannot imagine doing a multi-site solution or even broadcasting in a church online 00:05:29.600 --> 00:05:34.000 environment with a lot of the stability of, of what you guys are offering. And, and even the stuff 00:05:34.000 --> 00:05:39.820 that's coming down the road, uh, it's super exciting just to see kind of how your company is helping, 00:05:39.820 --> 00:05:46.820 um, bring church up into the modern sphere to be able to broadcast and reach and utilize a lot of 00:05:46.820 --> 00:05:52.480 what internet has in capacity with, with online. And we kind of glossed over portable church, but you 00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:58.080 know, I've, I've got clients who are utilizing portable church, uh, with that. And so I love, you know, 00:05:58.080 --> 00:06:02.800 the, the, the vision of, of companies like portable church who are doing things and what Steve's doing 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:10.940 by helping organizations, um, develop systems that allow you to do church anywhere. Like, you know, 00:06:10.940 --> 00:06:16.080 we were joking earlier about doing church in a, in a train station. And honestly, I've never heard of a 00:06:16.080 --> 00:06:21.200 train station church before, but the idea of, Hey, you know, let's utilize a school. Let's utilize a, 00:06:21.200 --> 00:06:27.900 uh, uh, uh, uh, you know, uh, community center. Let's utilize a train house to producing some of 00:06:27.900 --> 00:06:35.060 these churches in, um, uh, you know, uh, unconventional areas to do church, uh, virally 00:06:35.060 --> 00:06:40.240 where the people are like, that's, that's a great thing. And, and we've talked in the past about pop-up 00:06:40.240 --> 00:06:45.940 churches, I think somewhere around episode four, but even doing some of this stuff to, to do church 00:06:45.940 --> 00:06:51.020 in new areas. Some of the stuff that Colin and these guys and Paul, what they're doing living as 00:06:51.020 --> 00:06:55.820 one and Steve through portable church, it's really attacking the same problem, but through two different 00:06:55.820 --> 00:07:02.480 areas. How can we get church through church online, through internet technologies to people in 00:07:02.480 --> 00:07:07.340 unconventional ways? So go both you guys, man, thanks. Thanks for doing that. But here's what I 00:07:07.340 --> 00:07:13.820 wanted to do today. Like, so last week we talked about doing church and broadcasting church online. 00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:18.200 And it was really more of like the one-on-one. We actually, we, we call it a church broadcast one-on-one 00:07:18.200 --> 00:07:24.240 where it's, Hey, I'm just getting started into this. Maybe I'm a 150 person church, a 200 person church, 00:07:24.300 --> 00:07:29.300 maybe I'm a church plant that's coming up. Maybe I'm a 500 person church. And we've just finally caught 00:07:29.300 --> 00:07:34.120 the vision and the purpose behind broadcasting this on Facebook. And there's tons of resources, 00:07:34.120 --> 00:07:38.780 you know, that, that we talked about, hit up the church.digital, or there's probably going to be a link in the 00:07:38.780 --> 00:07:43.420 show notes that'll help you get there to listen to that and really find out what some of those smaller 00:07:43.420 --> 00:07:49.540 resources are. But here's the reality of where we are. As of right now, there's five to 10,000 churches a 00:07:49.540 --> 00:07:57.000 week that are broadcasting some sort of, some sort of content online, whether it's, you know, Facebook or 00:07:57.000 --> 00:08:02.420 through church online platform or YouTube or Periscope, Twitter, whatever it is, they're broadcasting 00:08:02.420 --> 00:08:09.420 something. And so with this podcast, I wanted to maybe step back and, and challenge some of us that 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:16.060 are already broadcasting on ways to do it better. As a general rule is, especially when you're starting 00:08:16.060 --> 00:08:21.740 out church online, the people who watch church online seem to be forgiving, but there's still a 00:08:21.740 --> 00:08:27.640 challenge for us to do it better. And so what better way I felt to maybe have some of these conversations 00:08:27.640 --> 00:08:33.380 about how can we do the church online broadcast better to bring in some experts who literally do 00:08:33.380 --> 00:08:39.960 church online and see church online on a regular basis, talking to living as one and how that they're 00:08:39.960 --> 00:08:45.900 utilizing their encoders for this, but also to bring in a portable church, Stephen Kaminsky, to really 00:08:45.900 --> 00:08:53.100 explore from the integration aspect, you know, some of the quality issues that maybe a church runs into, 00:08:53.100 --> 00:08:58.980 or how maybe a church that's doing just a one camera can step up to do a two camera, three camera, 00:08:59.180 --> 00:09:05.520 what's, what's involved with that? And what questions do we need to be asking? And so just my, my limited 00:09:05.520 --> 00:09:10.360 aspect of 20 plus years doing production in a church environment, you know, there's several different 00:09:10.360 --> 00:09:16.160 areas I want to hit on. There's like, okay, video, obviously getting video and being more artistic with the 00:09:16.160 --> 00:09:23.140 video. You know, audio, getting the audio to be better is part of it. And so a lot of this is the 00:09:23.140 --> 00:09:27.120 stuff guys that I just, I want to dig into. And there's probably some other things that I'm not 00:09:27.120 --> 00:09:32.060 even thinking about, which is why I bring in the experts. So, but let's, let's start with this from, 00:09:32.220 --> 00:09:39.900 from a video perspective, if I'm going, what's the win from going from maybe like a one camera shoot, 00:09:39.900 --> 00:09:46.220 doing a wide shot of the stage, what's the win from going to that to like a two camera shoot, 00:09:46.280 --> 00:09:52.640 a three camera shoot, it becomes more, more dynamic. Like what, why should a church spend the money or 00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:58.020 what is the advantage for the church to explore maybe some of that space? Steve, you want to speak 00:09:58.020 --> 00:10:04.740 into that? Yeah, I think the easiest way to define that is engagement. If you're going from a single 00:10:04.740 --> 00:10:08.940 wide shot, which let's be honest, there's nothing wrong with that. That gives you a perspective of 00:10:08.940 --> 00:10:13.860 sitting in the congregation somewhere and being able to see what's happening as if you were attending. 00:10:14.400 --> 00:10:19.640 But what you don't get is the emotion and connecting with the folks on stage. Those people are our 00:10:19.640 --> 00:10:26.500 worship leaders. They're the folks that are pointing us upward in engaging in worship. So by being able to 00:10:26.500 --> 00:10:31.520 have multiple shots in different ways, you can convey the emotion that you feel in the room 00:10:31.520 --> 00:10:40.880 over video to folks who are sitting watching maybe a week later, maybe a day later, who are maybe in 00:10:40.880 --> 00:10:47.360 different parts of the world. It's a way to draw people in. And that's probably the easiest way to 00:10:47.360 --> 00:10:52.560 define the reason for doing that, my opinion. 00:10:55.900 --> 00:11:02.720 Paul, Colin, like, are there churches that you have seen who have navigated this, who have gone from 00:11:02.720 --> 00:11:09.300 doing like a one to a multiple? I'm just curious, like, does the average church just do the one who 00:11:09.300 --> 00:11:14.560 are your clients, the multiple? Kind of what's your experience there when you're looking at how people, 00:11:15.020 --> 00:11:17.240 how churches are broadcasting their services online? 00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.600 Yeah, I think we definitely have a mix of churches that are doing both. I can't personally think of 00:11:24.600 --> 00:11:31.320 one particular one that's done that transition. But I definitely, when I'm looking at those feeds, 00:11:31.700 --> 00:11:36.880 you know, we do a lot of proactive monitoring to make sure that the quality of experience of the 00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:42.920 viewing experience is going to be good for our viewers. And so we monitor some of them to help 00:11:42.920 --> 00:11:48.480 make sure that that's going really well. And whenever I'm viewing between a bunch of different 00:11:48.480 --> 00:11:53.960 churches, I do see a big difference in the quality of the content of the production value 00:11:53.960 --> 00:11:59.960 when you go from a single camera shot to a multi-camera switch shot. And it's exactly what 00:11:59.960 --> 00:12:05.360 Stephen said. He's, you know, it's basically the being able to convey that engagement and that 00:12:05.360 --> 00:12:10.860 storytelling element of being able to craft an experience that you're trying to convey a message 00:12:10.860 --> 00:12:15.980 is really a lot more impactful versus having a static camera on somebody who's speaking is a lot 00:12:15.980 --> 00:12:22.620 less engaging. There's a lot less stickiness, if you call it, of somebody wanting to stay around and 00:12:22.620 --> 00:12:26.880 watch. Because if the viewer can kind of get bored, you know, their eyes start seeking around, 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:31.700 jumping around. If there's nothing to look at, you know, so much of our information that we receive 00:12:31.700 --> 00:12:37.160 is visual. And if it's a static shot of a talking person, somebody might tend to stick around a little 00:12:37.160 --> 00:12:42.320 bit less. And so those being able to have a better storytelling process to being able to switch 00:12:42.320 --> 00:12:46.740 cameras and make the whole viewing experience more dynamic is really going to have a lot more 00:12:46.740 --> 00:12:47.440 retention of viewer experience. 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:53.520 Yeah. We measure watch times. So that's how, because a lot of churches, like I know that 00:12:53.520 --> 00:12:57.180 you just had Jay Crondon. He told me they don't count for a viewer unless it's longer than 30 minutes. 00:12:57.600 --> 00:13:02.160 And so I think measuring viewer length is really important when thinking about different cameras 00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:07.400 and what that affects. And also, you know, it's the quality of the viewing experience, quality of 00:13:07.400 --> 00:13:10.680 technology, audio quality is really big there. I'm sure that we'll touch on all of those. 00:13:11.860 --> 00:13:15.240 But measuring, I think that's a great thing to measure. And I think we have seen, 00:13:15.240 --> 00:13:19.540 because we have these statistics on a big deal. It's not like we did a study on, you know, 00:13:19.620 --> 00:13:24.680 one camera shoot moved to the others, but as people improve their production, online campus 00:13:24.680 --> 00:13:30.060 pastors do notice a big difference in viewership stickiness, as I should say. Yeah. 00:13:31.380 --> 00:13:36.380 One of my clients is, and actually, I just had coffee with this guy up in North Miami. 00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:43.520 And I wasn't even thinking about it in context, but since we're talking about this, he is, it's this 00:13:43.520 --> 00:13:50.300 weird thing where he's doing both a wide shot, but he has access to multiple cameras. He's renting out 00:13:50.300 --> 00:13:59.200 a college theater slash classroom. And so it's got stadium seating. It's got three camera robots, 00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:05.620 you know, around. And so he really isn't using the joystick cameras as much as he is the lockdown 00:14:05.620 --> 00:14:12.700 camera that we set up for him. And he's broadcasting using a Epiphon Web X2 or something, a webcaster X2. 00:14:13.140 --> 00:14:19.200 And so like the majority of his videos are that. And so today I was actually talking to him about his 00:14:19.200 --> 00:14:24.160 Facebook videos. And we were scrolling through his videos and was looking at some of his wide shots. 00:14:24.360 --> 00:14:32.540 His average wide shot was around 200 to 220 views. It's a small church, church plant, getting started. 00:14:32.780 --> 00:14:39.380 And so 200 to 220 views on Facebook. But then he went into a section of where he was using 00:14:39.380 --> 00:14:46.260 the robot cams to get on the tight shot. His average view on those was between 900 and 950. 00:14:46.260 --> 00:14:53.800 And so this one guy, random, not scientific, we were able to calculate three to four times more 00:14:53.800 --> 00:14:59.180 viewership. And it's not that his content got better. It's not that it's a different sermon series or a 00:14:59.180 --> 00:15:07.020 different time. It's the same philosophy. He's just much closer, much tighter, which made that content much 00:15:07.020 --> 00:15:13.440 more engaging. And so, you know, for a lot of us, you know, maybe church online is so new that we've 00:15:13.440 --> 00:15:17.800 really never considered, okay, well, we're broadcasting the services, but what's the next 00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:22.660 step after broadcasting the services? What I would suggest is the next step is, well, let's figure out 00:15:22.660 --> 00:15:28.980 how to get that video more engaging so that it hooks people longer. Let's do things. And we've talked 00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:34.080 about it with chat hosts and others. Let's do things within the space also to make it more engaging. 00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:40.220 But, you know, keeping in mind on the broadcast side. So, you know, Steve, from just a pure 00:15:40.220 --> 00:15:49.780 technological basis, because you're in this all the time, what if I'm a 1500 person church, 00:15:50.020 --> 00:15:55.300 I'm doing a one person camera, and hey, you know what, maybe it's time to step up a little bit. 00:15:55.300 --> 00:16:02.900 Maybe I'm a 700 person venue doing two or three services. Like, what's a good model? What's 00:16:02.900 --> 00:16:08.160 something really to look at, for us to look at, how to take that next step in the broadcast to get 00:16:08.160 --> 00:16:10.320 more cameras and more engagement? 00:16:10.740 --> 00:16:17.160 The easiest place to start, I think, is Hitachi. They make a fabulous product. It integrates with 00:16:17.160 --> 00:16:20.960 Ross Switchers, which seem to be a fan of everybody. Everybody loves that carbonite black. 00:16:21.700 --> 00:16:27.860 And they fit a very, very nice price point. That is going to be a beautiful setup for 00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:35.580 your standard ENG, shoulder cam, news gathering camera setup. It's going to look good. They have 00:16:35.580 --> 00:16:41.320 extremely nice low light response, which is important in churches, because a lot of churches are 00:16:41.880 --> 00:16:47.500 trending darker in their lighting velocity, a little bit less light on the faces of folks, 00:16:47.760 --> 00:16:51.680 less light in the room. So you're not going to have the issue of trying to pick up faces 00:16:51.680 --> 00:16:57.840 some of the Hitachi models are very LED wall friendly, which is another trend to be careful 00:16:57.840 --> 00:17:03.680 of if you want to be mindful of the fact that LED walls and cameras don't always play nicely with each 00:17:03.680 --> 00:17:09.920 other. The trend that I think is heading upwards though right now, especially when we talk about 00:17:09.920 --> 00:17:14.880 artistic storytelling, which Colin Paul, I'm glad you guys brought that up because that's a huge piece 00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:21.920 of doing video online. So we have a lot of churches that are kind of moving towards canon cinema camps, 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:29.040 which brings its own inherent challenge. We have a lot of cinema work that's being done on DSLR bodies, 00:17:29.040 --> 00:17:34.720 everything, most content, shouldn't say all content, but most content we're seeing online these days 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:40.880 is shot with that cinematic feel, that shallow depth of field, that 24p frame rate, 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:45.520 you know, the whole thing. So we have a lot of churches now that are moving that direction. 00:17:45.520 --> 00:17:53.120 They want that artistic feel as opposed to your, nothing wrong with it, but the traditional style of camera 00:17:53.120 --> 00:18:01.760 shots. So I would say, depending on who you are, those Hitachi cameras are fabulous. But if you really are more 00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:08.080 trending artistically, the Canon cameras are another great place to start. And they both fit a similar 00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:16.000 price point in general. Awesome. So like what, who are some people who are doing the average person, 00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:21.760 you just said cinematic quality, 24p. I love my listeners. They got no clue what you just said. 00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:28.400 I totally understand what you're saying. What, what's a good example. And so either of you guys, 00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:35.520 uh, I don't know, but like who's doing 24p. Well, if, if I want to link to somebody in the show notes, 00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:41.280 who can I say, go look at what a cinematic church service looks like stylistically by watching this 00:18:41.280 --> 00:18:45.920 church. Is there somebody that's standing out right now? Yeah. Flatirons and Red Rocks. We live by both 00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:49.760 of them. So we, we go to both, we have people on our staff that go to both of them and Flatirons. 00:18:49.760 --> 00:18:54.080 Rob is kind of the guy who pioneered that using Canon cameras. Then he actually switched to 00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.960 Panasonic, but Red Rocks uses Canon and they look really, really good. And it's awesome. So yeah, 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:04.000 either watching Red Rocks or Flatirons feeds, and they're both living as one customers and they're, 00:19:04.000 --> 00:19:08.240 they're great. Flatirons is probably the one that sticks out most, mainly because Rob's pioneered it. 00:19:08.800 --> 00:19:14.000 So I got to hang out with him in an NAB and dude is just a genius when it comes to that. Some of the 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:20.160 stuff that he's done to make it work is fantastic. And it's probably pushed some of these manufacturers 00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:26.560 to make their, you know, their cinematic cameras, like the C300s, the C500s, more friendly to a 00:19:26.560 --> 00:19:34.880 broadcast environment. So even, even some of the options they're offering, for example, Iris control, 00:19:34.880 --> 00:19:39.200 remote Iris control used to be the biggest problem because you don't want a camera operator fidgeting 00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:44.160 the focus zoom in Iris. Well, Canon has made it possible for their remote controls now to control 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:49.920 Iris. So now you can have an engineer in a control room helping set light levels. So even just that 00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:55.840 simple piece has changed things immensely. So it's, it's trending that direction as things get a 00:19:55.840 --> 00:20:01.520 little bit more friendly. Awesome. There you go. We'll link to some of these in the show notes and 00:20:01.520 --> 00:20:07.920 include some other examples for you as, as well. But I, and I love, it's, it's like, I've loved the 00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:15.360 cinematic look. What's interesting is, as I've been working with clients, they've got so much invested 00:20:15.360 --> 00:20:23.040 in the broadcast that they haven't been able to like take that jump. But for a church that maybe hasn't 00:20:23.040 --> 00:20:27.840 made that initial investment into broadcast style cameras, which is the opposite of cinematic. 00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:34.480 Um, you know, maybe it's, it's a good opportunity to get a more artistic feel, uh, with it. And so the depth of 00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:39.280 field and some of the stuff that we're talking about here looks great. So be sure to check those examples out. 00:20:39.280 --> 00:20:44.960 One other thing that I wanted to touch on, at least before we're still in the audio and the video 00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:52.720 side, before we get to audio, I talk about a lighting for video sometimes and like the, um, or our color 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:58.240 temperatures and like the, the, the texts that I talked to, like it's, it's, they, they just, they can't, 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:04.000 they can't comprehend, you know, a lot of, of, of what's in involved or, you know, I talk about having the 00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.160 same color temperature and you can't do like the white, white and the yellow, white at the same 00:21:08.160 --> 00:21:12.560 time. Cause the cameras, you know, freak out. It depends on how it's programmed. And all of a sudden 00:21:12.560 --> 00:21:18.160 people look like Smurfs cause they're too blue and they just, it's, it's, it's like foreign. Um, and, 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:22.160 and if you don't know what I'm talking about, I'll link to very bad examples of, of what this looks 00:21:22.160 --> 00:21:28.240 like, cause there's some really bad church examples out there, but what are, what are some rules of 00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:33.920 thumb, uh, that you guys have, have experienced or look at, Hey, here's some things to consider when 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:39.760 you're doing lighting for, for broadcast, you know, and, and the good news is this, this even helps 00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:45.760 if you're not doing multiple cameras, even one camera can, can benefit from this, but like lighting 00:21:45.760 --> 00:21:51.280 for, for broadcast using the backlights, how to do front light appropriately, how not to have shadows, 00:21:51.280 --> 00:21:57.440 like what are some things that, that you guys kind of consider, see what churches that are doing it 00:21:57.440 --> 00:22:02.400 well? Uh, maybe some things that, that you've helped with Steve on your side. What does that look like? 00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:06.880 Um, living as one guys, you want to start off with something? Sure. I mean, I can start off with the 00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:13.280 basics. I mean, the, uh, I mean, it's, it's important to have adequate surrounding lighting on your, 00:22:13.280 --> 00:22:19.200 your speaker. So a good stage wash, um, is just absolutely critical because if you look at a video and, 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:24.240 um, they're not lit properly and you know, if you're, you're going to have to gain up the camera or make 00:22:24.240 --> 00:22:28.320 that camera more sensitive to the light and you're going to introduce grain and other artifacts in 00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:33.680 that image that, uh, just are not going to produce a good looking image. So having an adequate light, 00:22:33.680 --> 00:22:40.400 um, on that speaker, um, is, is absolutely critically important to, to affecting the overall look of that. 00:22:40.400 --> 00:22:48.160 Um, backlighting can add a ton of, uh, great, um, depth to the look of your video. So what we did, 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:53.120 um, at my, uh, home church back at Chase Oaks, I used to do some lighting design for them. So we would 00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:59.600 have a nice solid, um, uh, stage wash across. So if he walks to the left side of the stage, 00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:03.600 there's plenty of light there. If he walks to the right side of the stage, there's plenty of light 00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:08.880 there. And then we actually had some movers that were moving lights, moving heads, um, that were 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:14.320 mounted to the ceiling and we would point them down. They were probably about 15 feet behind the speaker 00:23:14.320 --> 00:23:19.040 for our particular setup and they angled down. So they gave him kind of a, the back of his head 00:23:19.040 --> 00:23:24.800 had some nice light and it lit up his shoulders as well. And that gave him a lot of depth instead 00:23:24.800 --> 00:23:30.960 of him looking very flat, if he only had front lighting. So a combination of nicely balanced front 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:36.160 light where it's nice and even as he walks across the stage and backlighting to give it that depth, 00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.920 they're probably two things that I would definitely recommend for at least the speaking part of when 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:46.400 you're trying to broadcast a message or a sermon. Sure. Backlight, I know plays, plays a big part 00:23:46.400 --> 00:23:53.040 in like I've, I've, I've seen situations where black backdrop pastors wearing a black jacket, um, and 00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:58.640 his black hair. And it just, he's, it's like, it's just looking at a face in a, in an undershirt 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:04.640 almost, uh, basically is, is because there's no real separation. The white t-shirt he's wearing 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:09.680 or the white shirt, uh, underneath his jacket is, is what's really driving the brightness. 00:24:09.680 --> 00:24:16.000 And everything else because it's, it's black is, is lost. So, so that, that backlight is, is key. 00:24:16.000 --> 00:24:22.480 Um, in, in, in context and in Steve, you know, like, cause I know you've got traditional fixtures, 00:24:22.480 --> 00:24:28.080 which are typically in, in like, uh, a yellow white, you've got the led and intelligent fixtures, 00:24:28.080 --> 00:24:34.080 which are typically more led blue, white, you know, what, what is that tension like when you're 00:24:34.080 --> 00:24:40.400 creating a broadcast environment for video teaching or for others? Like how, how do you use 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:42.720 what, how do you regulate when to use what, where? 00:24:42.720 --> 00:24:47.520 Well, so I think, I think the interesting thing to note with that is that 00:24:48.720 --> 00:24:53.200 you want, you want all your light to be uniform. So at no point should you be mixing 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:59.680 a daylight with a warm white, um, color temperatures in the same shot, because then your cameras don't 00:24:59.680 --> 00:25:04.400 know what to do. And you're, you're going to have Smurfette on one hand, and then you're going to have a 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:09.600 really bad spray tan on the other hand. It's just, it's not going to blend well. So you need to pick 00:25:09.600 --> 00:25:14.960 one. Um, I don't know that it really matters from a broadcast standpoint, which one you pick because 00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:21.280 your camera can be shaded and colored to adapt to that for broadcast. I think the more important 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:27.360 question there, you have to start with the live room itself. If you've got daylight white on everything 00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:32.320 on stage, but your house lights are warm white, you're going to have a bigger issue in the room and 00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:37.200 then fighting that. So I think, I think the decision starts with your live room and then make that 00:25:37.200 --> 00:25:43.840 uniform across the board. I think it's the easiest answer to that. Um, and then even light, um, on the 00:25:43.840 --> 00:25:50.080 stage and especially for the message and for any hosting that's done is make sure it's even, there's 00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:55.360 nothing more distracting. Again, we talk about removing distractions all the time, then some, a pastor 00:25:55.360 --> 00:25:59.920 walking across stage and getting darker and brighter as he takes each step, especially if the camera's 00:25:59.920 --> 00:26:06.640 panning along here with him. So even same color temperature light across the whole spectrum is 00:26:06.640 --> 00:26:14.640 key. Um, I perfectly, I'm personally, I'm a little bit more of a fan of the warm white because most 00:26:14.640 --> 00:26:20.640 environments, your house lighting is going to be a warm white color temperature. Um, I will say most cameras 00:26:20.640 --> 00:26:27.120 and technology play better in daylight, uh, just a blue color spectrum is more friendly. Um, but after 00:26:27.120 --> 00:26:31.840 having seen both, I'm a warm, warm white fan. Well, I was gonna say, we spent a lot of time having the 00:26:31.840 --> 00:26:37.600 conversation around the lighting to the speaker, but let's not forget that when we're talking about 00:26:37.600 --> 00:26:43.360 worship, we're talking about clothes, close up shots. An easy trap to fall into is let's bathe them in light 00:26:43.360 --> 00:26:48.880 too. But don't forget that shadow plays well into emotion. So just because we're talking about that, we want 00:26:48.880 --> 00:26:54.560 your speaker evenly lit across the whole spectrum doesn't mean it needs to look like the sun shining on the 00:26:54.560 --> 00:27:00.720 whole stage during worship. Let shadows play to emotion. Um, and then there's, there's different points of view on 00:27:00.720 --> 00:27:07.200 that, but don't be afraid of shadows when music's playing. It actually helps creating that story. Again, we're 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:13.920 talking about storytelling earlier. It allows story to be told in those moments. Yeah. As a vid, I agree. 00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:20.720 As a video director, I actually think that the, it's two sides of the coin and that the rules that apply 00:27:20.720 --> 00:27:27.360 for video teaching during a pastor are the direct opposite of how the video teaching rules or how the 00:27:27.360 --> 00:27:33.520 video rules apply during worship. You know, if, if I'm looking at the frame in teaching, I always want 00:27:33.520 --> 00:27:38.000 the pastor in the middle, you know, keep the camera in front of him as he's moving across. You're keeping 00:27:38.000 --> 00:27:43.040 them in the middle of your viewfinder in the crosshairs. During worship, I would much rather have 00:27:43.040 --> 00:27:48.240 the, you know, the person that that's in focus, your, your, your primary person on the left third 00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:52.560 or the right third and using the rule of thirds. I'll, I'll put a definition of that in the show notes, 00:27:52.560 --> 00:27:58.320 but to create more negative space around the person to work with transitions and in pans and things like 00:27:58.320 --> 00:28:03.360 that, where you want that teacher to be as bright as possible. You really want the worship to be 00:28:03.360 --> 00:28:08.240 more dark, where you want it to be focused on the teaching. A lot of times in worship, 00:28:08.240 --> 00:28:13.920 you want to focus on the environment for some of that to convey some of the emotions. And so really, 00:28:13.920 --> 00:28:20.800 it's, it's two different sides of the coin and they're both necessary, A, to have cameras that are 00:28:20.800 --> 00:28:26.000 able to get some of the darkness, but can focus on, can handle, you know, the, the bright as well, 00:28:26.000 --> 00:28:30.480 that you want the encoder to be able to have stability going to both sides with that. And 00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:35.760 having volunteers that understand, okay, during worship, you know, I need to have, you know, this, 00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:40.320 your camera operators need to have this philosophy, but teaching's a completely separate thing. 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.680 What are some examples of, of like overall, and you mentioned a couple on the 24, 00:28:46.160 --> 00:28:51.120 uh, 24 frames, but either of you, all three of you, who's doing this well, who should we be 00:28:51.120 --> 00:28:56.240 looking at? And we're like, Hey, there's a really good artistic worship angle. Uh, and there's a 00:28:56.240 --> 00:29:01.840 really good, uh, teaching perspective. Uh, what churches out there for somebody who's trying to 00:29:01.840 --> 00:29:04.400 figure out how to get started? Who should they be looking at? 00:29:05.680 --> 00:29:09.760 I love the point of you. I would say, uh, man, Red Rocks is for the worship. 00:29:09.760 --> 00:29:15.200 Um, they are just killing it. Um, I was talking with, uh, one of their technical directors the 00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:21.440 other day. Um, and I was really blown away that of, of how, of how he described it to me. He does 00:29:21.440 --> 00:29:27.600 both the lighting design and he is in charge of all the camera setup. And, um, he doesn't even have a 00:29:27.600 --> 00:29:33.280 shader, um, on their camera during worship. He sets all the lights and all the cameras at a single 00:29:33.280 --> 00:29:37.840 setting on the aperture, basically how much light is coming in on the camera. And it never changes 00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:43.520 during worship. Um, and if you look at that video that the producers, they're using, I think Canon 00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:49.920 C200s, those, those cine cameras with, uh, the nice shallow depth of field lenses. And, uh, I mean, 00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:55.040 wow, it is, it is an amazing look when you look at their video. So if you can check out worship for 00:29:55.040 --> 00:30:00.800 Red Rocks, you'll be amazed. Um, and then I would say if I had to pick one for a message, 00:30:00.800 --> 00:30:06.240 I would probably say Life.Church, um, the Craig Groeschel, um, book that he has on that slick 00:30:06.240 --> 00:30:10.960 stage and they do lighting so well. Uh, that's, that's probably the one I would say for the messages 00:30:10.960 --> 00:30:16.800 for me. This is an intense IMAG one too, speaking directly. Yeah. He does a great job of speaking 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:22.320 to the audience on the count of cameras too. Yeah. One, one of the things that I love and I, 00:30:22.320 --> 00:30:24.960 and I've heard this, I don't know if it's still true, but I know it was at one, 00:30:24.960 --> 00:30:31.200 point like the cameras at Life.Church are like in row three or row five, right there. They were 00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:37.520 pushed very much up because there's, and, and when I'm coaching, you know, preachers and communicators 00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:42.320 on video teaching, it's always, you got to remember past, there's more people on the other side of that 00:30:42.320 --> 00:30:48.400 lens than in the physical room. And that's so hard for like the average pastor to really connect with 00:30:48.400 --> 00:30:54.720 because that pastor, that communicator has been trained for 20, 30 years preached to the room and, 00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:59.200 and, and you're, you're training these, these, these teachers to learn. It's not just 00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:03.520 the people in the room. There's more on the other side. And as you're looking at multiple campuses, 00:31:03.520 --> 00:31:08.880 as you're looking at church online, as you're looking at, at audio podcasts at, at, at YouTube 00:31:09.440 --> 00:31:14.160 and sermon archives and all the different distribution points. Uh, and the majority of 00:31:14.160 --> 00:31:19.280 churches, it's a fact. There are more people on the other side of that lens than, than actually 00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:26.160 physically in the room. So, so that's, that's great stuff. I've, I've liked elevation and how they do the 00:31:26.160 --> 00:31:36.560 teaching. Uh, but what's interesting is that it breaks every rural rule, R U L E rule known to 00:31:36.560 --> 00:31:41.440 churches. Like you, you're not supposed to show the audience, you know, they do the over the shoulder 00:31:41.440 --> 00:31:47.040 shot, um, to show the audience over. Um, I mean, I'm just blanking on the pastor's name. Who's the 00:31:47.040 --> 00:31:51.600 pastor there? Steven Furtick, uh, Furtick. They're over the shoulder on Furtick to show the audience. 00:31:51.600 --> 00:31:55.680 You always want to show the pastor's face, but they're doing over the shoulder. You can't see his face. 00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:02.080 It's like all, all these preconceived norms that started with, you know, Groeschel that started with, uh, 00:32:02.080 --> 00:32:06.400 uh, North point way back in the day with North point video teaching roles, which is 00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:12.960 where I learned 12, 13 years ago on how to do video. Like he just like trashes all of it. 00:32:12.960 --> 00:32:18.320 Yeah. He runs everywhere in the whole stadium. Oh yeah. And, and it's like, but it's, it's, 00:32:18.320 --> 00:32:23.440 it's, and maybe this is me because like I said, I'm an old fogey, but it's breaking all those roles 00:32:23.440 --> 00:32:28.800 to me that makes it so, uh, exciting and engaging. Cause I'm like, he can't do that. 00:32:28.800 --> 00:32:33.520 Oh, look, he just did. He can't do that. He can't show the audience that way. And then all of a sudden 00:32:33.520 --> 00:32:38.640 he is. And I'm like, Hey, this isn't really, isn't that bad. And so not to like separate from 00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:45.440 the way everybody else is doing it, but that almost makes it exciting because it's unique in that. 00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:50.000 And I honestly, I get that same feel when I look at the cinema, the cinema cameras and worship, 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:55.600 because I'm like, it's so it's unique in that there's not tens of thousands of churches doing 00:32:55.600 --> 00:33:00.480 it on a major level. It's a very small percentage getting into that space that really makes it 00:33:00.480 --> 00:33:06.320 powerful stuff. All right. So let's, let's talk about audio because audio is, is one of these areas 00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:13.920 where people have patience when it comes to video. Uh, there's a miscue, there's a miscut. Um, something 00:33:13.920 --> 00:33:18.640 doesn't look quite good. They're going to give it patience because they, they can hear it and they 00:33:18.640 --> 00:33:24.880 can understand it. But if it doesn't sound good, if you've got a bad worship mix, if you've got 00:33:24.880 --> 00:33:32.400 a teacher who's cutting in and out, uh, the mics dropping out, like they're not sticking around. 00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:42.240 Um, and so an online mix is, is so important. So I'm a church that I've been doing an ox out of the 00:33:42.240 --> 00:33:47.520 board or a matrix out of my soundboard straight to the camera. The house mix has been broadcasted out 00:33:48.080 --> 00:33:52.160 and there's nothing. We talked about this earlier. We talked about it last week. There's nothing wrong 00:33:52.160 --> 00:33:59.360 with that. However, there's an opportunity to expand and to get better. So Steve, just kind of like, 00:33:59.360 --> 00:34:07.440 let's define it. If we wanted to go from a one mix to like a two mix where now I've got a separate board, 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:13.360 got a separate engineer, like what's a two minute explanation of how to do that? 00:34:16.960 --> 00:34:21.120 A split honestly is, is the easy answer. So you need to have some kind of split 00:34:21.120 --> 00:34:27.840 that allows you to have a second console to access all the audio inputs that are available to your 00:34:27.840 --> 00:34:34.160 console for your house. Um, that can take one or two ways. That's an analog split going completely 00:34:34.160 --> 00:34:40.480 old school where you've got something that's giving doubling all your inputs or so you have one for 00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:47.760 each console or today's day in the world. You have a lot of digital snakes that allow one console to have 00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:54.400 access, um, to the inputs and then another console to access those inputs as well. Uh, so it just kind of 00:34:54.400 --> 00:35:01.520 depends on which console you have and which console you want to utilize for your broadcast mix. Um, 00:35:01.520 --> 00:35:06.560 but being able to split audio out is the key. If you're a podcast console. 00:35:07.280 --> 00:35:13.280 Yeah. I know, I know I've, I've had this conversation before and I always get a different opinion back. 00:35:14.160 --> 00:35:19.440 Is it important that both consoles for online and house are the same? Like, do they need to be 00:35:19.440 --> 00:35:22.960 identical or can it be separate? What are some of the pros and cons of that? 00:35:23.840 --> 00:35:30.640 Uh, so the pros of them being identical is if you're running volunteers or you're hiring in audio engineers, 00:35:31.040 --> 00:35:37.600 um, they can then either run the house mix or run the broadcast mix. So you have one set of training 00:35:37.600 --> 00:35:47.920 principles in existence. And if it's a console, like a Yamaha, like a, uh, Digico where they can do, uh, 00:35:47.920 --> 00:35:55.760 gain sharing off the, um, stage box, then it's extremely crucial and money saving at the same time. 00:35:55.760 --> 00:36:02.560 Um, so it's, it's extremely important. Now, if that's not your goal, um, then it's not as important. 00:36:02.560 --> 00:36:07.760 If you're paying folks and you're paying guys always do broadcast and you're paying guys always 00:36:07.760 --> 00:36:12.480 doing front of house, it's very different. Um, if you've got a volunteer, that's a recording engineer, 00:36:12.480 --> 00:36:20.000 it might be easier to stick him on pro tools and he might be able to do it quicker, um, off that. 00:36:20.000 --> 00:36:26.000 And then you actually have to buy another console surface. You're just buying a digital input box. So 00:36:27.200 --> 00:36:31.360 my opinion, it's extremely important, but it's not a one size fits all either. 00:36:31.360 --> 00:36:37.200 So what kind of space do we need if, if we're trying to set up like a studio to mix from, 00:36:37.200 --> 00:36:44.560 are we mixing from like in-ear or not in-ear headphones over ear? Are we mixing from 00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:49.040 near field monitors? Like, like, what do you recommend kind of conceptually if we're really 00:36:49.040 --> 00:36:55.440 creating a separate mix desk for this, what types of tools does a volunteer or a paid person need to 00:36:55.440 --> 00:37:02.480 actually mix in this area? What do you think, Steve? So I would say a standard size office. So 00:37:02.480 --> 00:37:07.040 you're talking maybe 200 square feet. Um, that gives you enough space to add some acoustic. 00:37:07.040 --> 00:37:10.080 200 square feet. What kind of office are you working in? 00:37:12.080 --> 00:37:18.480 Holy cow. That's awesome. Good for you, man. I'm kidding. All right. Keep going. 200 square 00:37:18.480 --> 00:37:24.880 feet. Go for it. Keep talking to me. And then the near field monitors is honestly the easiest way to 00:37:24.880 --> 00:37:29.680 do it. Um, you can get really tricky and have a couple of different types of monitors. So that way 00:37:29.680 --> 00:37:36.320 you can kind of average your mix out. You can simulate, you know, computer monitors or you can simulate 00:37:36.320 --> 00:37:42.560 car stereo. Um, but you just want to find yourself a decent pair of near field monitors to mix to, 00:37:42.560 --> 00:37:47.200 um, get them tuned for the room acoustic treatment for the room and then rock and roll. 00:37:48.720 --> 00:37:54.000 So tell me this and let's just open this up to everybody. What is the difference? Because some 00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:57.120 of these people, you know, what, listening to this broadcast are probably saying, 00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:05.200 but it's the same service they're mixing. Like, how's it, how's it different? So how does a mix for 00:38:05.200 --> 00:38:08.800 the house differ to the mix that we're hearing online? 00:38:10.240 --> 00:38:16.880 Wow. So that, that is a, that is a bit of a loaded question. Um, because in this day and age with digital 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:24.560 consoles, um, you have a lot of churches that don't have a separate broadcast booth because let me 00:38:24.560 --> 00:38:31.760 caveat that they've dialed in the sound of their rooms so tightly and had the PA tuned so nicely 00:38:31.760 --> 00:38:38.480 that the mix that they're sending the PA is good enough for broadcast. So watermark, um, they are 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:44.000 sending the house mix to broadcast these days. They have a full broadcast suite. Um, but they are 00:38:44.000 --> 00:38:49.440 utilizing what's coming off the front of house console because it is fabulous. Uh, Andrew Stone, 00:38:49.440 --> 00:38:56.080 um, church on the move. Uh, they run a, uh, program called mix you. Um, they actually are big proponents 00:38:56.080 --> 00:39:01.200 of get your, get your house mix set up really well, get your PA tuned really well. And then you don't 00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:08.560 need a separate broadcast suite. Um, so it's, it's kind of a loaded question on how it's different because 00:39:08.560 --> 00:39:14.000 if you're doing it right, it shouldn't be, uh, in theory, you should be able to mix one place and 00:39:14.000 --> 00:39:20.560 it's the same as the other. Um, all right. So you, you just, you just, uh, you just threw something 00:39:20.560 --> 00:39:26.000 back at me. Let me throw it back at you. This is great. I love it. So give me three things to improve 00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:31.040 to do it right. So we're not doing it right. I have to have a separate mix. What are three things 00:39:31.040 --> 00:39:35.760 I need to improve on? What are the top three things to work on so that my front of house mix 00:39:35.760 --> 00:39:43.680 can work for broadcast? Tune your PA, get your PA tuned extremely well. So that way what you're 00:39:43.680 --> 00:39:49.200 sending out of your console, if you were to record that on a CD mix, and if you were going to listen 00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:53.120 through with the PA, you would not be able to tell the difference between what you're listening to in 00:39:53.120 --> 00:39:57.360 your car and what you're listening to in the room. Now we can all agree that's never going to happen 00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:02.160 because I've got bigger subs in my worship center than I have in my car. Uh, most of us don't have 00:40:02.160 --> 00:40:10.240 subs in our car anymore. Um, this isn't the nineties. Um, now tuning, tuning is a big piece of it. And then 00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:17.840 it is having someone consistently mixing in that room that has a good feel for what's happening. And 00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:24.320 that requires a lot of effort and a lot of craft and a lot of work. Um, and, and that's what's going 00:40:24.320 --> 00:40:32.080 to be required to achieve that. Uh, so tuning, um, a lot of effort by the engineer into listening 00:40:32.080 --> 00:40:37.760 to his mix, uh, and playing it back. And then I would say the third thing is, is output processing. 00:40:37.760 --> 00:40:43.600 Uh, today's age, almost everybody has some form of plugin, whether it's waves, whether it's the 00:40:43.600 --> 00:40:47.600 Allen Keith consoles that have their indoor processing. And a lot of what you're doing 00:40:47.600 --> 00:40:54.560 there is just setting broadcast safe levels. 90% of issues in audio online usually come from clipping. 00:40:55.520 --> 00:40:58.880 You know, someone blowing out the audio and it just fuzzing out on you. 00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:03.760 Yeah. Two other things that I, I was thinking about loudness. There's something called loudness 00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:10.560 that is actually a standard, um, in TV that, um, basically the history of it was, uh, commercials 00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:15.200 would come on and they'd be way louder than the TV program. And it's because they wanted to get 00:41:15.200 --> 00:41:19.440 their attention. They, they didn't want you to tune out. And so they would come on and they crank 00:41:19.440 --> 00:41:23.920 up the volume as much as they could that they were allowed to, to get it to the broadcast network. 00:41:23.920 --> 00:41:27.920 And then whenever it transitioned, it was just like, whoa, why is that commercial so loud? 00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:34.160 So the FCC put out a new law about loudness and it's a, it's basically a metering of volume 00:41:34.160 --> 00:41:40.000 or the average volume over time. And, um, so monitoring that for your online audience, 00:41:40.000 --> 00:41:45.120 making sure that your worship is about the same as your speaker. When it comes to overall loudness 00:41:45.120 --> 00:41:50.400 is really important, especially when you're talking about playing on smaller TVs with smaller speakers, 00:41:50.400 --> 00:41:53.680 huge changes in volume are going to be really inconvenient for them because they're going to 00:41:53.680 --> 00:41:58.000 constantly have to, um, adjust their volumes. That's probably one of the other things to really 00:41:58.000 --> 00:42:02.160 think about is monitor the overall loudness of your feed going through online stream. 00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:08.720 And so let me, I'll, I'll, I'll tag off that all by saying, here's the pro tip. Um, if, 00:42:08.720 --> 00:42:14.160 if you're in a situation where you have to use one console, um, and you don't have the space, 00:42:14.720 --> 00:42:23.760 resource, whatever to do a whole separate broadcast mix by a waves LV one mixer, bus out your worship 00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:32.240 mix, your pastor mix, and your audience mics mix, and then use that LV one simply as a matrix mixer 00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:37.600 to do that loudness metering, to do that shaping, to set your levels and you will be a happy camper. 00:42:37.600 --> 00:42:44.080 That is probably the easiest and most cost effective way to do it. Um, it can live in a rack in the 00:42:44.080 --> 00:42:48.560 control room. You can have someone over there that can just monitor and check those levels. It's 00:42:48.560 --> 00:42:54.640 probably the easiest way to accomplish that. Um, and then keep your audio engineer in the house, 00:42:54.640 --> 00:43:02.080 focused on the mix in the house. Hey, so this has been a great conversation. Um, I, I love the 00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:07.840 the production aspect. I love the video aspect of what, of what church online does and the ability 00:43:07.840 --> 00:43:14.560 for us to step up to maybe improve some things. Um, this is, this has been a great conversation 00:43:14.560 --> 00:43:18.880 in the show notes. We'll have, you know, lots of, lots of these resources. We've talked a lot about 00:43:18.880 --> 00:43:25.120 a lot of different churches that are doing some of this stuff, which is good. I've often wondered this. 00:43:25.120 --> 00:43:30.720 So somebody mentioned, and I forget if it was Steve or, or Colin, but we talked about mixed you, 00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:36.720 which is a resource for the audio side of the equation. And by the way, that's a phenomenal 00:43:36.720 --> 00:43:41.680 resource. Definitely check them out. If you haven't great for churches, great for volunteers, 00:43:41.680 --> 00:43:48.400 you know, dive all into that on the video. Is there a mixed you equivalent on the video side? 00:43:48.880 --> 00:43:51.600 Has somebody doing something? Are they exploring that space? 00:43:52.880 --> 00:43:56.640 Not that I know of. I second the recommendation for mixed you. Do you know one? 00:43:57.200 --> 00:43:58.160 No, there needs to be. 00:43:58.160 --> 00:43:59.600 Yeah. There you go. Some opportunity. 00:44:00.880 --> 00:44:04.800 Yeah. You know, like part of me in the back of my mind, I'll say this on podcast. I don't care. 00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:08.800 Part of me is like, why don't we just do that? But I don't have time. 00:44:10.160 --> 00:44:13.840 Anybody out there who's wanting to do like a mixed you thing for video, 00:44:14.400 --> 00:44:20.640 I have several churches right now who will sign up for that in a heartbeat to, to be 00:44:20.640 --> 00:44:25.520 some of your first customers to, to make that happen. Because as the church continues to grow 00:44:25.520 --> 00:44:31.200 and expand more multi-site, more church online, more churches are going to be wrestling with this. 00:44:31.200 --> 00:44:36.400 They're going to look for that. So, hey, podcast listener out there who's struggling to find what, 00:44:36.400 --> 00:44:40.240 what you need and where God's leading you and calling you and you're good in video. Hey, 00:44:40.240 --> 00:44:46.240 I just gave you a business. I will, I will charge you 5% commission. So you can feel free to write 00:44:46.240 --> 00:44:50.640 that check to the church digital, mail it to me. And I thank you in advance for that. Hey, 00:44:50.640 --> 00:44:56.400 so this has been a great show, man. Thanks, thanks for this. Steve, we'll just, you know, 00:44:56.400 --> 00:45:00.640 wrap up any, any closing thoughts, 20, 30 seconds as we're landing this plane. 00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.600 Yeah. We've talked about a lot of stuff that can seem intimidating. So if you were the church that 00:45:05.600 --> 00:45:12.160 is wanting to get into this, it's, it's, it's not that intimidating, be thoughtful about it, 00:45:12.800 --> 00:45:18.480 be intentional about it and take your time getting into it. The reach that your church will have by 00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:22.560 doing this is going to be amazing. The impact that you're going to have long-term is going to be 00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:29.600 amazing. You're opening the front door for so many people. Um, so do it, take a step at a time, um, 00:45:29.600 --> 00:45:34.400 and then partner with folks that have done it. Um, don't operate in a vacuum. Don't do it yourself. 00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:37.920 Uh, lean on resources and people who are available to help you. 00:45:37.920 --> 00:45:42.720 That's awesome. Was that a cat or was that your kid? 00:45:45.200 --> 00:45:47.520 That was your 18 month old. I was about to say, I was like, 00:45:47.520 --> 00:45:52.960 Steve doesn't have a cat. So I'm not sure what's going on over there. That's awesome. I miss your 00:45:52.960 --> 00:45:59.760 kids, man. Steve and I have gone way, way back. So that's good. Colin, Paul, hey, as, as we're landing 00:45:59.760 --> 00:46:06.320 the plane, any, any thoughts? Yeah. So we've thought a lot about, um, the audio and the video part, 00:46:06.320 --> 00:46:11.920 but not on the experience side in terms of what is the quality of the video, like in the actual, 00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:16.560 you know, buffering, et cetera. And I think is like your church online grows up as you get to the next 00:46:16.560 --> 00:46:22.240 level. Um, oftentimes church tech directors, we were, we were in that position. Um, you know, 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:26.560 they get emails from people having problems, um, but they're so busy that it's so hard to deal with. 00:46:26.560 --> 00:46:30.640 Um, and so one, I second Steve's encouragement that if you're putting content out there, 00:46:30.640 --> 00:46:33.680 it's better than nothing. People are coming to Christ through it. My family came to Christ through 00:46:33.680 --> 00:46:37.760 your church online, big believer in it. So it's better than nothing. But on average, 00:46:37.760 --> 00:46:43.520 like 29% of people leave when they see their first buffering wheel. Um, and so I would really think 00:46:43.520 --> 00:46:48.400 about, Hey, what's, what's, what's the best technology, adaptive bitrate streaming, et cetera, 00:46:48.400 --> 00:46:54.560 stack that you can use because that like, um, and that's that 29% of people that leave is a significant 00:46:54.560 --> 00:46:59.360 buffering wheel of like five to 10 seconds, whatever. Um, and that's in all industries, um, 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:03.280 including sports, which is most of the online live viewership. So it's probably, it's probably 00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:08.000 greater than that if in the church world. And then 54% of people leave in the second buffering wheel. 00:47:08.000 --> 00:47:12.560 So you'll see that, um, when you look at your analytics of people dropping and, um, 00:47:12.560 --> 00:47:18.400 they can tolerate local quality, like with a lower, um, bitrate. Um, and if you don't know what I mean 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:22.880 by that, it's like, you know, you have 1080p and then all the way down to 140 with most providers. 00:47:22.880 --> 00:47:27.040 So having, having those options is very, very important for your viewers. Um, and we'll 00:47:27.040 --> 00:47:30.720 generate a lot more repeat views so that your analytics doesn't tank over time and it actually 00:47:30.720 --> 00:47:35.040 grows and it's not a frustrating experience for them. So that could be a whole podcast in itself 00:47:35.040 --> 00:47:39.920 on quality of experience and how to make that, um, the best experience it can so that you have repeat 00:47:39.920 --> 00:47:43.600 viewers and people that aren't annoyed with your stream. Cause if they can't watch it audio and 00:47:43.600 --> 00:47:48.320 video quality doesn't matter, you know, it's, it's the, and it's still audio and video quality, 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:53.120 but how many cameras you have doesn't matter if they're getting a buffering wheel. Um, so I would, 00:47:53.120 --> 00:47:57.760 um, and that technical term for it is QOE, which is quality of experience. And that's a great thing 00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:03.920 to research. Well, I think for me, uh, I would just say, uh, just to, to tag on a little bit 00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:07.840 additional to what Steven said, you know, or encourage them is, is you focus on, you know, 00:48:07.840 --> 00:48:12.480 incremental growth, you know, pace yourself, uh, don't try to do everything at once. Cause that 00:48:12.480 --> 00:48:16.560 could just become overwhelming and not enjoyable. And you could make, you know, way more mistakes 00:48:16.560 --> 00:48:21.680 than you would need to. Um, so, you know, most, most healthy growing paces, you have periods 00:48:21.680 --> 00:48:26.160 of growth and then you have periods of stability, making sure and ironing out all the, all the bugs 00:48:26.160 --> 00:48:32.160 and the tweaks you, um, have encountered. So I would, I would, uh, just encourage you to definitely pursue, 00:48:32.160 --> 00:48:38.320 um, improving what you want to do, but don't try to do it all at once. Just make sure that incremental 00:48:38.320 --> 00:48:42.720 and plan for the longterm, you know, partner with people who are, um, who are not going to go away, 00:48:42.720 --> 00:48:48.880 you know, quickly. And, um, and if you, when you're trying to climb a mountain, you do it one step at 00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:54.000 a time. So just be, you have that mindset. Don't try to jump up in one giant leap. So. 00:48:54.720 --> 00:49:01.040 Yeah. We had on, uh, in episode five, we had on, uh, David Erzy, who's man, I'm blanking at the 00:49:01.040 --> 00:49:06.240 church. He's at, he was formerly with Seacoast came in. Um, I'm, I'm going to fail at the church 00:49:06.240 --> 00:49:10.160 right now cause I don't have it in front of me, but when he came in, he, he was evaluating the 00:49:10.160 --> 00:49:14.720 online environment and they were doing all sorts of stuff and they were all over the place and there 00:49:14.720 --> 00:49:19.840 wasn't an infrastructure in place at all. And one of the things that he talked about in the podcast is, 00:49:19.840 --> 00:49:26.480 is he stopped everything and said, I'm just broadcasting one service, even like Facebook, 00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:30.720 multiple chops, you know, social, different social media networks. He's like, let's, 00:49:30.720 --> 00:49:35.920 let's start with what's reset. Let's start with one and let's build from there. And he talks about how 00:49:36.480 --> 00:49:43.120 resetting really allowed him to, to build a healthy infrastructure instead of feeling like he was 00:49:43.120 --> 00:49:49.200 drowning all the time with information and stats and not really funneling them into a discipleship 00:49:49.200 --> 00:49:54.720 pathway or, or, or what you have on, have for you on, on that line. So that's, that's very good feedback 00:49:54.720 --> 00:50:01.840 by, by the way. And we didn't, we didn't really park on this much at all, but in context of, uh, 00:50:01.840 --> 00:50:07.920 living as one, uh, of how they're providing a solution from a broadcast perspective, portable 00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:13.680 church, uh, and, and how they're like these guys, both of these, all three of these, but both of these 00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:20.960 companies, both of these individuals are phenomenal in how they're resourcing church, the big C church 00:50:20.960 --> 00:50:26.880 and helping them do ministry, uh, in today's modern era. So if you're looking for plug, 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:32.720 if you're looking for insight direction, if you need help understanding this stuff, um, 00:50:32.720 --> 00:50:38.080 I cannot think of a better company to connect you with on the encoder and the decoder side 00:50:38.080 --> 00:50:44.480 than living as one. And when I work with churches, uh, especially ones that are doing multi-site and, 00:50:44.480 --> 00:50:50.000 and even as they're growing and expanding more, uh, more product, I cannot think of a better company 00:50:50.000 --> 00:50:55.920 to partner you with than, than living as one. And, and those of you that are, oh, I've got a client 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:02.400 who's launching a multi-site in 2019 in the fall. And I picked up the phone and called the only person 00:51:02.400 --> 00:51:08.720 I knew how to speak to in context of this. And it was, it was, uh, Steve over at portable church. 00:51:08.720 --> 00:51:12.720 So yeah, I don't do a lot of endorsements. I don't do a lot of, of commercials. And I don't 00:51:12.720 --> 00:51:17.200 even think if I can legally do this, it's my own podcast. They can't arrest me. Right. So at the end 00:51:17.200 --> 00:51:23.040 of this, the people you want to talk to, if you're in these areas are definitely these guys. Hey, uh, 00:51:23.040 --> 00:51:25.760 living as one skies, where can they find you on social media? 00:51:26.640 --> 00:51:31.680 Yeah. We're on Instagram and Facebook. We're not on Twitter. Um, but yeah, website's great too, 00:51:31.680 --> 00:51:38.080 or just email us living as one dot. Living is one streaming on Instagram. 00:51:41.600 --> 00:51:45.520 And, and we are not confusing that with a marriage seminar, although that's the best 00:51:45.520 --> 00:51:51.760 line I've heard. No, we're not a marriage seminar. We're actually a streaming service. 00:51:53.840 --> 00:51:58.960 Hey, Steve, how can people connect with you online? Uh, you know, the easiest way to connect 00:51:58.960 --> 00:52:04.320 with portable churches, uh, check out portable church on Instagram and on Facebook. We have a 00:52:04.320 --> 00:52:08.880 lot of content out there as well as some pretty cool new products that we're rolling out. Uh, 00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:14.640 easiest place to connect there. And then I'm on Facebook at Steven, facebook.com/stevekaminski. 00:52:14.640 --> 00:52:19.280 Uh, feel free to hit me up and, uh, reach out to us, uh, through our website. 00:52:20.480 --> 00:52:28.000 Awesome. Hey, uh, so for Colin, for Paul, for Steve, my name is Jeff Reed with the church digital. 00:52:28.000 --> 00:52:33.120 If you've not subscribed to this podcast, subscribe now, write a review, say something nice, 00:52:33.120 --> 00:52:38.480 share it with a friend, check out the show notes, hit me up on social media at dear fed, 00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:46.480 which is weird, but it's Jeffrey backwards. D E R F F E J. Like I said, it's weird. Just get used to it. 00:52:46.480 --> 00:52:52.560 Hey, so for all of us here at the podcast, thanks for joining us and we'll see you next time or hear 00:52:52.560 --> 00:52:57.840 you or you hear us. I think that's better. You'll hear us next time on the church digital podcast. 00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.560 Thanks everybody.