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 all right you got the church digital podcast here once again powered by stadia church planning by

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 the way this is our two-year anniversary for the podcast here we've been doing the church digital

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 podcast for two years that's 104 weeks i don't want to do the math maybe 730 days plus or minus

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 a leap year day somewhere in the middle we've done 150 some episodes here the church digital

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 podcast of beta throw in some cray like it's been a lot of fun in this season and i want to thank

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 stadia church planting for continuing to help me get the word out talking fidgetal church talking

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 digital only church it has been awesome every step of the way with my stadia family good times

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 good times okay for this episode we're actually want to stay focused on the stadia planting side

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 of this because today here in this podcast we're going to be talking about planting a digital only

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 expression of church now pre-covid i got to tell you a digital only expression of church a church

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 with no physical footprint a church with no building a church that exists entirely in cloud services and

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 social media and digital space um yeah it's a very very controversial idea um you know like people

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 hey jeff you're sinning by helping churches plant digitally you're taking the people out of the bride

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 of christ the physical building you should repent of your ways these are some of the conversations i've had in my

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 lifetime talking about a digital only expression of church and now thank you covid there seems to be a little

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 more acceptance of this not that covid maybe loosened up what the bible says i don't i don't think covid changed the bible

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 but i think that we're seeing a better understanding of what digital ministry can look like and what a digital church

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 can look like and understanding that maybe the strengths and weaknesses of digital play well in context of

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 doing a church in that space biblically functioned ecclesiologically solid church but it's not what we think

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 let's even get into it a little bit here in this conversation we're bringing in three digital only church

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 planters into the conversation you see stadia my family over at stadia we have been doing cohorts

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 towards planting digital only expressions of church we've got two or three cohorts running right now

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 honestly i'll be starting two more cohorts probably within the next couple months and so we're constantly

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 helping planters achieve their vision of planting physical churches or even even digital expressions of

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 church and so we're bringing in three planters who have gone through cohort with us they've gone through

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 the training the project management the evaluations and at this point one of them's launched and the other

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 two are gearing up to launch in the fall and for us this is an opportunity to present to you the listening

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 audience out there hey here are some guys that are doing digital only planting they are literally planting

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 a church that will not have a physical building what are the challenges what are the obstacles what are the

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 celebrations what are the god stories that are coming out of this and and this is the thing that we hope

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 you hear that god can do things in digital space through a digital church that god has already

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 done things through digital churches in digital spaces and we want to encourage you maybe this is your

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 opportunity to come on board maybe you or somebody you know may be interested in planting a digital only expression of church and i jeff reed

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 literal job title director of digital church planting for stadia church planting i would love to talk with you

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 so here's who we're bringing into the conversation right off the bat mark lutz now mark is a digital only church

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 planner of course he is planting lux digital church uh it is a vid it's a church for video gamers excuse me it's a church

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 of video gamers and mark will dig into that here in a little bit in the broadcast talking about his twitch

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 and his discord relationship that he's doing with his church we're also bringing in chris monroe

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 chris is with relate church which is a church that focuses primarily on facebook in his targeted region

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 it's more of the kentucky uh tennessee kind of areas up in the kind of the midwest i'll let chris

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 explain to you his one his why and why he's doing relate church and we're also bringing in chesley

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 lundy and chesley is is launching king city church in the fall and and he has this ridiculous vision for

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 what a digital church can be and i'm not even going to start to explain it as much as to recognize hey

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 you need to listen to this podcast you've got three guys with three different strategies that they're

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 wanting to implement in a digital church reaching completely different people none of them are trying

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 to steal from the physical building as much as it is create a different church for a different type of

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 people disciple them in different ways contextually to the end of creating disciple makers now there's

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 powerful stories in here majestic purple buffalo you need to stick around and wait for that story so

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 if you don't know you'll know when you hear majestic purple buffalo you'll understand stick around and

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 wait and hear the story of majestic purple buffalo either way this is going to be a phenomenal

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 conversation that i hope is going to challenge some of you out there to maybe change the way that

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 you're looking at church or maybe encourage you to be part of a movement of digital only church plants that

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 stadia is trying to start up here to reach the world that our buildings are not reaching so for the

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 conversation mark lutz uh chris munro chesley lundy and myself jeff with the church digital in stadia church planting

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 in a conversation that i'm really simply calling the planters of digital only churches okay everybody

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 here you go uh so my ministry story starts uh well i've been in ministry for probably it's about

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 12 years you know 10 years of that has been serving the same church um it'll be 11 years here

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 probably by the time this episode is out actually and uh and have been serving kind of like a physical church

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 and um so part of our ministry story has to do with being inside of the physical church and watching

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 uh serving in youth ministry serving in discipleship ministry and um watching a lot of kids who came out

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 of the ministry of our church um and we were really faithful and did our best to be faithful to those

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 kids and we reached into the community we had a strong missional emphasis you know we read all the books

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 we went all went to all the conferences and our church is an amazing church it's still the church

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 that my family attends on the weekends um but i watched as kids just left um and they didn't go

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 anywhere in particular um they just didn't come back they weren't away at school they didn't go to the

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 military um they were in their parents basements and most of them were playing video games mostly

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 because i was a gamer i knew that i was still gaming with them on and off um they had come to church a

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 couple of times and it just really wasn't for them um and the world swept them up in in a wide variety

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 of beliefs and that wasn't because they went to a college classroom like i had typically thought

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 it's mostly because they were educated by social media more than they were educated by the church

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 and so i remember saying about five years ago to my wife if the church does not change radically

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 um we're not going to reach the next generation and so lux is inherently sort of born out of that

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 um i've been a gamer my entire life in some capacity and lux is built to reach gamers it's

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 to reach gamers where they are instead of saying god wants to reach you exactly where you are so

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 please come to our church and sit in our seats and sit through our sermons saying let's take the

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 church to where they are and so when god began to move and call us into something new it started out

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 of a podcast it was just a it was a podcast that i had started um without really a lot of intention

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 i had planned i planned for it to last maybe a month or two it was covering a digital card game that i

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 already enjoyed so it was video game centric and i just started beginning to use it for ministry and

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 to pray for people and and that's really where lux began um and god began to open doors and

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 answered prayers and we began to say okay if god's at work here and we're seeing the holy spirit answer

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 our prayers even though we're not physically touching anybody we don't know these people very well

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 um and that's when relationships really started to develop and it was like okay what is a relationship

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 what constitutes a relationship i've always thought that to have a relationship i had to be physically

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 with people but here i am with three guys on a call all of which i would consider to be friends

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 and i've never met any of them i've never hugged any of them i've never shook any of their hands

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 yet i would say because the time i've spent with them they are closer to me right now than the majority

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 of people who i haven't been able to see for a year because of covet 19 and so it was in the end of 2019

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 beginning of 2020 that god really moved and said mark i crafted you not only as a pastor but also as a

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 gamer and my heart broke for the gaming community because i saw what type of a dark place they were in and i had

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 known that but i had never even considered god wanting to interact with that and so i was like

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 well i have a heart for church planting i have a heart for gamers but we can't plant a church and

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 ask them all to come unless we don't have a building i need a church that's not contained within walls i

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 need a church that's not held back by brick and mortar or steel and timber we needed a church that

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 could reach people literally wherever it was that they were and that's what you know brought about

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 luxe and so we began dreaming about that and god began answering a lot of those prayers i came with

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 a ton of reservation about it i'm a physical church person not a digital church person at heart

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 i wanted to plant a physical church i didn't really have any desire to do things digitally i was off

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 social media for four years i had no presence online with the exception of discord and um i saw the power

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 of community tolls and it was just like okay like this is this is we're gonna be so in in march of uh in

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 march of 2021 we started luxe digital church online uh we live stream on twitch uh because we wanted to

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 put a church where gamers are um i i make an important um point that we're not a church for

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 gamers um not that i mean but we're a church where gamers are okay and i i think there's a port there's an

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 important difference between those two things because a church for gamers means that everything

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 has to be gaming centric and in our church everything isn't gaming centric it's gospel

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 centric and so we just happen to have planted our church where gamers exist already and so our heart

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 is then to be able to reach them um because i can connect with gamers in a way that people who don't

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 game just can't and there's nothing against them it's the same if you were really into sailboating

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 you could connect with sailboaters in a way that i can't because i don't know anything about sailboating

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 um and so but i do know a lot about gaming and in the gaming community and so that's really where

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 where luxe is that's where we got started and god's been incredibly faithful to us sort of through all of

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 that um it's been it's been a while but a really cool ride that you don't consider yourself a disruptor

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 um i don't i mean i don't know uh i don't i don't gladly take that title i'm not like eager for it

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 um okay i mean i know that jeff is he he loves the title uh it's like one of his favorite things

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 that he has he puts it on a shelf at home and he dusts it every day um but like i i don't i don't

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 naturally consider myself a disruptor i think this is a natural extension of where the church is going

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 in this is the direction that the holy spirit is sending the church um i think he's made that very

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 clear so i i hope i hope that instead of being an intentional disruptor um we're i oftentimes kind

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 of view it as is the the worship wars that we went through in the 90s in the church um where we wanted

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 to bring in contemporary worship and other people didn't want contemporary worship and right the

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 church at the end of the street that i live on like right they're they're still in it right they

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 have a blended service a contemporary service and a regular service and all of them probably have 15

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 people who show up to them right because they can't get along and have one worship service right and uh

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 and i i think that this is the sort of like the the worship war of our generation and i'm hoping

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 it's not a war is the thing like i'm not going i don't want to go into it as intentionally a disruptor

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 because i have no desire whatsoever to start a war with the physical church i want to partner

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 with the physical church if that makes sense well said well said um and yeah i i do have disruptor

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 on my shelf i only dust it twice a month though not every okay not every day my bad take take lessons

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 here can you remember that please chesley uh in and i just i know chesley considers himself a

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 disruptor and maybe he's one of those guys that finds a little too much joy in that space although

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 publicly he's probably going to correct me now but chesley why don't you tell me a little bit of of your

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 ministry story uh talk about king city too how you got started with that yeah that's only because i'm an

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 eight on the enneagram i gotta challenge everything yeah so i'm naturally a disruptor whether i like it

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 or not so it just happens um i was leading a small church in omaha nebraska about five and a half years

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 and i was in a room with uh there's probably about 25 of us pastors in the denomination i was a part of at the

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 time and they're trying to figure out how to reach the next generation and i was the youngest pastor in

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 in the room by 25 to 30 years and so ultimately they looked at me and what do you think and i'm like

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 well the question i keep asking myself at this moment is what if the church didn't have a building

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 they laughed at me they said that was crazy and they disregarded what i said and went back to the

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 how the how are they gonna reach you know the next generation and i realized i i had always not felt

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 at home and uh felt like i had a a good place for my skills and abilities in the church um obviously

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 church planting seems to be the most uh the most congruent to my gift set um i'm very entrepreneurial uh i love

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 business i love starting things but it's still it still didn't quite jive with the way i was thinking

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 way outside the box and uh i went ended up becoming a youth and young adult pastor at a church in phoenix

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 arizona i was here for about two years and realized my kids are on digital and i am not so um how do i

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 help small churches build a youth group a student group that has good resources that could also help

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 mentor their students and we came up with the idea we have to have a digital community we have to have

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 a safe space that a student would be able to have a conversation with a mentor and you can't you don't

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 have many of those safe spaces online even on social um it was a success and then covet hit and my hats

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 changed because i'm on church staff i became the digital guy because you know he's doing that digital

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 thing with students and um i love marketing and business and so they're like hey yeah this is a

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 natural extension but i started realizing this question that i had in my heart some five years ago

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 like this is real now there's proof of concept and everybody has to do it and so i started looking

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 online for the specific um a specific phrase digital church planting and i went to page 14 of google and

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 this guy named jeff reed was there and uh he's not on the 14th page of google anymore um and i got an

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 an appointment with jeff and the first thing i think i said to you was i'm not crazy who knew

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 and uh we had conversations i had no idea that i would be here you know what seven eight months later

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 looking to plant a digital church but i am and so uh obviously as i went down this road it was i i

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 believe it's a god thing um god has been very gracious um i'm in a uh organization that is super

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 supportive and uh and loves me and my family and so a lot like mark we still go to the church that we

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 were on staff at i'm not paid but like i speak once a month there so there's still relational ties i do

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 believe that there's some real superpower if it did the digital church and the physical church partner

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 together because at the end of the day church is not a building it's a people and so i'm excited about

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 that we're really cool glad you found me on google most people give up around page i am too but you

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 you you went that extra mile to 14 and you're right i'm not on page 14 no not anymore not not

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 anymore hey chris uh man let's let's talk about about what you're doing so talk to me about this

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 digital church that you're doing on on facebook how how'd you get started with your ministry

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 story and and how'd you end up doing what you're doing now on facebook well uh let's see man i grew

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 up in church uh and uh was very active in ministry as a teenager um was doing little service you know

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 being being active in ministry at age 11 12 13 just has been part of who i am i knew that god had

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 designed me for ministry uh when we was right before christy and i got married we just jumped into youth

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 ministry we have been over the last 18 years been in youth pastors associate pastors worship pastors

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 we've been lead pastors a couple times and uh in 2018 we were serving as associate pastors and worship

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 pastors um and uh god began to stir something up in me and i knew it was to plant a church and i fought

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 him for it for about almost two years um well not a year and a half let's go a year and a half i fought

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 god with this um the end of 2019 we stepped down from our positions and actually started attending a

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 different church just to kind of get some space to clarity um and beginning of 2020 uh we had finally

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 agreed together with god that he was wanting us to plant a church and then the world went crazy and uh

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 this is just uh i mean everybody was in that predicament uh what was going on at the same time is we had

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 actually been loaned out to another church to help them while they were in the middle of worship leaders

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 and so our first sunday at that church was the first sunday that we could not meet together physically

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 here in kentucky and so i went from being the fill-in worship leader to being the guy who was responsible

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 for getting the church online just overnight and uh begin to uh we begin to ask ourselves the questions

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 first of all did we misunderstand god because we were thinking planting a physical church

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 um it's probably not a good idea to try to plant a physical church in the middle of a pandemic

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 uh you know these kind of questions and at the same time i'm also looking to see how i can improve

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 what i was doing with central city church and uh through this i came across a couple of um interviews

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 um with myron pierce is it um i came across the interview somebody i forget it wasn't jeff it was

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 somebody else was interviewing him and he was talking about digital church uh and then jeff i came across

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 the interview with you uh was interviewing somebody out california way who went ahead and decided to plant

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 a church early and did it all digitally on easter um and so just kind of started my head rolling and then

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 um i attended this church online summit and it was there that uh somebody said i was going to look

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 this up but somebody somebody said one of the speakers said that um and it was a pivotal moment

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 for us he said this he drew a circle he's like this is uh you know the church and its physical presence

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 and everything that we do in-house he's like in this little circle down here he said this is the

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 church's online presence and he said that the shift that he he saw coming that was accelerated

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 by covid was that that was going to flip-flop and the church was going to have a bigger online presence

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 and a smaller in-house in-person presence and that just got my mind thinking

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 about what we could do and um i don't say stuff because i say a lot of things

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 sometimes i will drive down the road and i'm mad at the local ice cream shop down here because they

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 opened one before i could um and i don't you know because i'm just that kind of guy i want to i want

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 to open this and that and i just constantly have these thoughts and christy's like yeah just go for

00:21:25.700 --> 00:21:31.780
 it um but we was talking and she came and she said hey why don't we plant this church digitally

00:21:32.500 --> 00:21:38.420
 and so i'm a guy who's full of crazy ideas but when she says something like that i trust her judgment a

00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:43.620
 lot more than i trust mine a lot of times and so i realized that it was god that was speaking to both

00:21:43.620 --> 00:21:50.660
 of us and so i filled out a church ready readiness planter survey from stadia the next day i was sitting

00:21:50.660 --> 00:21:56.980
 on a zoom call with jeff reed and one month later we was going through cpac and it was a whirlwind of

00:21:56.980 --> 00:22:03.780
 a time and we've been getting to do ministry on facebook uh the relate church and uh i've seen a lot of

00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:09.540
 things happen we do a morning monday through friday morning bible study 8 30 central time

00:22:10.660 --> 00:22:14.500
 every sunday night at five o'clock we do a time of worship and we've actually had a few

00:22:14.500 --> 00:22:19.380
 services thrown in the in the mix and we're looking to launch full-time this uh september

00:22:20.180 --> 00:22:25.380
 well listen like you had you know i would normally say you had lots of different options out there

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:29.780
 towards planting a digital church i don't know that there were lots of options i don't i don't know that

00:22:29.780 --> 00:22:35.940
 there's a lot of people like doing digital church planting or supporting digital church planting the

00:22:35.940 --> 00:22:42.020
 way that stadia is maybe more and more coming up now in 2021 as a result of of covid but there's not

00:22:42.020 --> 00:22:48.340
 a lot i do see a lot of planters though that are wanting to do their own thing uh they kind of wanting

00:22:48.340 --> 00:22:54.580
 to work on their own and develop their own systems as opposed to working with an organization like stadia so

00:22:54.580 --> 00:23:01.380
 i'm curious why stadia why why did you come along to be part of the cohort why not do your own thing

00:23:01.380 --> 00:23:07.460
 why not work with somebody else surely it's not because of something that google said on page 14 so

00:23:07.460 --> 00:23:12.660
 like what what was it that that kind of brought you in that led you to this place of working together

00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:20.100
 with an org like stadia yeah for me um twofold i had already had a conversation with you and then i am a

00:23:20.100 --> 00:23:28.020
 part of the uh a legacy denomination and um they already had a partnership with stadia so obviously

00:23:28.020 --> 00:23:35.860
 though being in the church planting game um previously stadia is a big name and um if they

00:23:35.860 --> 00:23:42.740
 can put their stamp of approval on you it's like a bank's uh bank system of a credit score

00:23:44.180 --> 00:23:50.660
 and so um if they say yes or you have a high score like when you're looking at investment dollars and

00:23:50.660 --> 00:24:00.020
 you're looking at uh a support raising or even just um can you do this stadia saying yes we believe you

00:24:00.020 --> 00:24:08.580
 can matters and it's not just a well i think i can and i'm going to try obviously i believe there's

00:24:08.580 --> 00:24:15.860
 those of us out there that can and i can tell you i failed two church plan assessments um before uh

00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:20.900
 god brought me into this piece you know i don't think i knew that well i haven't really talked about

00:24:20.900 --> 00:24:26.100
 wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait wait oh we won't call we won't let you call them out publicly

00:24:26.100 --> 00:24:31.780
 but we're glad you're here definitely want to endorse you moving forward okay yeah yeah there you go

00:24:31.780 --> 00:24:37.860
 so no i i did i'd failed two church plan assessments um one of them was because i was reformed in a

00:24:37.860 --> 00:24:42.340
 non-reformed denomination and the other one was because i was a young kid that had no clue what

00:24:42.340 --> 00:24:48.020
 he was talking about he just knew he needed to like like start something and so they're like you're not

00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:54.500
 old enough yet and so um i had been through this this was my third time going through this system

00:24:54.500 --> 00:25:00.900
 so i was a well aware of what i was getting myself into uh and so my wife's like we're doing this again

00:25:00.900 --> 00:25:09.220
 really so but um this time you know super prepared uh knew somewhat of what was going to happen i tried

00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:16.180
 to explain you know to my friends like it's like shark tank you you go in you are grueled for like

00:25:16.180 --> 00:25:23.220
 two days and uh they want to see how you handle pressure um and it just it meant something because

00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:29.700
 when they saw it in you and then they can see that you're you're you have uh the ability to do this

00:25:29.700 --> 00:25:35.220
 we want to help train and coach you to make it even better i i think having that support system

00:25:35.220 --> 00:25:40.980
 behind you and not doing it alone is so important and that's why i went with stadia

00:25:40.980 --> 00:25:47.860
 that's awesome chris uh how about you what was was your developing relate church why work with

00:25:47.860 --> 00:25:53.780
 stadia why work with an organization like us as opposed to doing it on your own well in 2007

00:25:54.340 --> 00:26:00.020
 uh it was the first time that i ever felt the call to plant a church and uh i'm a part of an

00:26:00.020 --> 00:26:04.900
 organization denomination that has state overseers or administrative bishops i think that's what they

00:26:04.900 --> 00:26:10.820
 call them and i called the guy up and i said hey i want to plant a church and he he gave me the green

00:26:10.820 --> 00:26:18.260
 light go ahead um and uh went six months into it and then he called me back and he's like either you're

00:26:18.260 --> 00:26:23.380
 going to have to move so far away that you're going to have to start over um or you're going to shut

00:26:23.380 --> 00:26:29.780
 down and uh in that in that short period of time you know it was it was a learning experience i i

00:26:29.780 --> 00:26:38.260
 realized very very first off i knew nothing about church planting uh and and i knew that if i ever

00:26:38.260 --> 00:26:43.300
 wanted to plant a church again that i was going to have to have somebody that was going to come

00:26:43.300 --> 00:26:48.180
 come along with us and walk walk with us through that process because it's not an easy it's not an

00:26:48.180 --> 00:26:55.940
 easy task um and there's a lot of stuff i don't know and uh and so when when just stumbling on to

00:26:55.940 --> 00:27:01.380
 um looking at all the different organizations that was out there um like you said you know there

00:27:01.380 --> 00:27:07.860
 wasn't a whole lot that was offering for the digital and uh and so when we hit we had talked

00:27:08.500 --> 00:27:14.500
 in our first interview um it just everything just kind of fell into place and uh and we went that

00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:22.420
 route hey so so let me let me ask like um you're doing a different thing you're doing

00:27:22.420 --> 00:27:27.460
 a digital church there are similarities between digital and physical physical there are things

00:27:27.460 --> 00:27:32.820
 that that poured over from physical to digital there are some things that you've had to relearn and

00:27:32.820 --> 00:27:38.580
 experiment and do differently so i would love to maybe explore obviously the audience as a general

00:27:38.580 --> 00:27:45.540
 role understands how physical ministry works as you're doing your digital churches as you know chris

00:27:45.540 --> 00:27:50.660
 even you with the previewing and and chesley all the stuff that you're doing kind of laying down this

00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:57.300
 foundation uh for ministry to come what are the differences in doing a digital church compared

00:27:57.300 --> 00:28:02.580
 to physical only ministry what are the things that you're you're wrestling with whoever wants to go

00:28:02.580 --> 00:28:08.980
 first yeah i'll start i mean like they're the differences are it's so strange because there's so

00:28:08.980 --> 00:28:15.620
 much of the core of ministry between the digital the physical that is the same um you know for me

00:28:15.620 --> 00:28:22.420
 physical ministry was always relationships and um and then you know there's ebbs and flows with that

00:28:22.420 --> 00:28:25.700
 there's good and bad and you're closer to some people than you are others but in the end of the

00:28:25.700 --> 00:28:32.020
 day right it's relationships it's like how do you develop relationships how do you invest in people

00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:38.740
 how do you um how do you help equip people um how do you how do you really you know make friends and

00:28:38.740 --> 00:28:43.940
 and you know for me like my ministry teams and things they were always my closest friends like i went to

00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:49.860
 battle with these people like this was for me this was spiritual warfare and and i needed comrades

00:28:49.860 --> 00:28:55.220
 alongside of me so whenever i dove into ministry at a church almost all of my relationships outside of

00:28:55.220 --> 00:29:00.260
 my teams suffered because those were the people that were at my house eating meals those were the

00:29:00.260 --> 00:29:05.380
 people that i was up late with those were the people that you know if we went if with youth group went

00:29:05.380 --> 00:29:08.580
 really bad and we had to go get a beer afterwards those are the people that i was out grabbing a

00:29:08.580 --> 00:29:14.100
 beer with afterwards you know like that was those were my that was my tribe and my people and so um

00:29:14.100 --> 00:29:19.540
 um really digital ministry is no different than that for me anyway um digital ministry is about

00:29:19.540 --> 00:29:24.340
 relationships you know it's about spending time with people it's about investing in people it's about

00:29:24.340 --> 00:29:30.340
 equipping people it's about serving people well and relationally you can do all of those things um

00:29:30.340 --> 00:29:36.180
 there there's some aspects that are super challenging that i wish we could do better you know um but like

00:29:36.180 --> 00:29:41.940
 this weekend you know one of the members of our teams he and his fiance got married and i was on the zoom call

00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:47.380
 watching the wedding um you know from six and a half or seven hours south of me i got i got to attend

00:29:47.860 --> 00:29:54.100
 his wedding this weekend and into him i was there i mean it was shot he was done on an ipad it was

00:29:54.100 --> 00:29:58.980
 kind of blurry and everything but i got to be there i got to watch he and his now wife get married and

00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:04.100
 like and that's incredible and i got to participate in in that in that way and there are a lot of people

00:30:04.100 --> 00:30:08.340
 who you know i would consider friends that i've developed relationships with but our church is you know

00:30:08.340 --> 00:30:13.140
 a month old as well and so you know a lot of my relationships are a month old some of them are

00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:17.380
 longer some of those relationships i've been able to develop over the last year or two because they

00:30:17.380 --> 00:30:21.700
 they came from another digital community that i was already a part of and i had established some

00:30:21.700 --> 00:30:27.540
 relationships there what is different it's like it's not hard to tell what's different like there's

00:30:27.540 --> 00:30:32.420
 it has to be scalable and it has to be global from like the very moment like the other day we had

00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:37.300
 someone join our community he was in one of our streams he came into it he's a believer he's a

00:30:37.300 --> 00:30:44.180
 63 year old retired police officer from uh from australia and so i just got to hang out with him

00:30:44.180 --> 00:30:48.580
 for like 30 minutes uh because he stopped in our welcome center i saw him in there and so i popped

00:30:48.580 --> 00:30:53.860
 in and said hello you know your building's always open digitally and there's great parts about that and

00:30:53.860 --> 00:30:58.260
 there's there's challenges about that most of your church exists on people's phones so it's not

00:30:58.260 --> 00:31:02.580
 hard to gather together daily and there's beauty in that but one of my favorite things to do for

00:31:02.580 --> 00:31:08.420
 ministry was eat and we don't really get the opportunity to do that at lux um i can't prepare

00:31:08.420 --> 00:31:12.660
 i mean i used to love it prepare a big meal for 30 people that would be my job for the day and i would

00:31:12.660 --> 00:31:17.380
 serve the meal to 30 people that i had cooked myself and i'm not a good cook but it meant something

00:31:17.380 --> 00:31:23.540
 to them that i had prepared food for them and with lux um i can't do that and so there's so many

00:31:23.540 --> 00:31:27.380
 differences and it doesn't take anyone who's been in ministry any you know for any length of time

00:31:28.740 --> 00:31:32.100
 a while to like determine like oh yeah i wouldn't be able to do this and we could do that i wouldn't

00:31:32.100 --> 00:31:37.540
 be able to do that we could do that it's the hurdle for most people to get over of i prefer to do

00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:43.140
 ministry this way i prefer to do ministry physically versus digitally and i don't like what social media

00:31:43.140 --> 00:31:47.300
 brings to the table and i don't like what the digital world has to offer and i don't like any of

00:31:47.300 --> 00:31:50.820
 those things either but that's where people are and so that's where the church needs to be

00:31:50.820 --> 00:31:58.660
 yeah i think um digital is a tool uh it's it's a means to the end it's not the end itself so i don't

00:31:58.660 --> 00:32:07.940
 think anyone here uh would be on digital if uh there was a better means so um i think it's it's a

00:32:07.940 --> 00:32:12.020
 component and if there's a better way to reach people that's what we want to do we'll we'll we'll

00:32:12.020 --> 00:32:18.180
 do anything short of sin to reach people for jesus thank you craig rochelle um at but for for

00:32:18.180 --> 00:32:25.620
 for what we're trying to do um there's there's a book called the innovation stack by jim mckelvey uh

00:32:25.620 --> 00:32:33.380
 who is the co-founder of square with jack dorsey and he talks about these uh these little innovative

00:32:33.380 --> 00:32:40.020
 ideas and stacking them on on top of each other so he talks about southwest he talks about their fight

00:32:40.020 --> 00:32:46.340
 with amazon and how uh they beat amazon as a small company but it was a lot of these little pieces

00:32:46.340 --> 00:32:50.580
 that they had said hey we have to do this differently we have to do this differently and we have to do this

00:32:50.580 --> 00:32:57.620
 differently um all innovation is an undercutting of the legacy model that comes before them and so for

00:32:57.620 --> 00:33:05.060
 us it was like okay you have this digital uh influencer marketing piece you have the social media piece

00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:13.220
 um you have crowd sourcing like a crowdfunding and uh you can you could crowdsource anything you want

00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:20.980
 nowadays too so there's there's these three pieces that digital has given us that if you put them and you

00:33:20.980 --> 00:33:27.780
 put them in the context of church they could change the way we operate for the good of the church i believe

00:33:27.780 --> 00:33:34.260
 and so we wanted to do uh we wanted to take those three component pieces and say what how would that work

00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:40.820
 in a church setting and then ultimately at the end of the day our job as a church is to equip the saints

00:33:40.820 --> 00:33:47.460
 for the work of the ministry until we all come to the unity of faith right and so for us it's like well

00:33:48.260 --> 00:33:56.100
 to make disciples i don't want to say discipleship that's wrong but to make disciples is the goal of our

00:33:56.100 --> 00:34:04.180
 church and so uh the operating system underneath that has to be development and it can't be for

00:34:04.180 --> 00:34:11.220
 volunteerism it has to be for mission in their context because we don't have a building we have

00:34:11.940 --> 00:34:19.780
 we have very little infrastructure that needs uh a lot of care so we have a few things that we'll need

00:34:19.780 --> 00:34:25.940
 volunteers for but we could do an hq team of like 10 people and have you know serve thousands

00:34:26.100 --> 00:34:31.620
 because of the scalability of this model and so uh for us it was like hey here are these three or four

00:34:31.620 --> 00:34:38.100
 pieces that are unique to digital that we can take stack them on each other and you can create a whole

00:34:38.100 --> 00:34:43.860
 new way of doing church that i think is effective and i have you know i could i could talk a lot more

00:34:43.860 --> 00:34:48.180
 about it but that's essentially what it is for the most part you guys seem to have

00:34:48.180 --> 00:34:56.100
 like stable background and support from that so um maybe share some stories there because you don't

00:34:56.100 --> 00:35:01.060
 you're not having these horror stories is that as a result of covet is it just kind of forward-thinking

00:35:01.060 --> 00:35:06.820
 people that that you're now working with at the denomination or at the sending church like how have you

00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:14.260
 managed to have healthy support coming in here with this like very radical concept idea yeah i mean

00:35:14.260 --> 00:35:23.060
 covet 19 helps um because it suddenly makes everyone say oh maybe we should do online stuff or like you

00:35:23.060 --> 00:35:27.300
 know previous people were like hey i hate online stuff and then they had to go to church online they're

00:35:27.300 --> 00:35:31.860
 like actually kind of like it kind of kind of actually like it more than going to church kind of nicer

00:35:31.860 --> 00:35:36.180
 um and and they're like you know people you know boomers and leader who are kind of like yeah like

00:35:36.180 --> 00:35:42.580
 i'm kind of cool um so that that didn't hurt us we've really only made one ask uh one direct ask uh

00:35:42.580 --> 00:35:48.180
 for the most part you know it's very interesting because one of the one of our supporters came to us and

00:35:48.180 --> 00:35:55.300
 kind of said like hey really resources flow along the lines of relationship and so we've just gone to

00:35:55.300 --> 00:36:01.060
 people that we've had relationship with and for me ministering in the same community for 10 years is

00:36:01.060 --> 00:36:06.500
 really helpful um i come from a non-denominational church in a rural area of western pennsylvania

00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:13.300
 that has little to no network um but the network that we do have has been supportive of us and that

00:36:13.300 --> 00:36:20.100
 has been incredible um it also didn't hurt i mean in our very unique situation right we had

00:36:20.100 --> 00:36:25.140
 um i just had the opportunity to build a relationship with somebody who ended up being very wealthy

00:36:25.140 --> 00:36:31.300
 um and that's like that's my unique scenario like it just came into being that like before this

00:36:31.300 --> 00:36:36.420
 individual was very wealthy we developed a really great relationship then this person became very

00:36:36.420 --> 00:36:41.620
 wealthy and then and this person wants to do wants to help us and wants to see churches flourish and

00:36:42.180 --> 00:36:46.500
 and they like the idea and so that made all of the resourcing sort of like that was easy for

00:36:46.500 --> 00:36:51.300
 us now our home church is very supportive of us obviously we still worship there they're financially

00:36:51.300 --> 00:36:56.020
 behind us they're behind us and what they say is prayer presence and payment and so they're three

00:36:56.020 --> 00:37:00.580
 p's we are a network church of new life christian ministries and we've signed a network agreement

00:37:00.580 --> 00:37:05.300
 with them um but you know i would be remiss to not mention victory family church open door church

00:37:05.300 --> 00:37:10.180
 in north carolina um and our friends at southeast asia prayer center because they're also all been

00:37:10.180 --> 00:37:14.340
 incredibly supportive and we've told them the same thing across the board it's not really about your

00:37:14.340 --> 00:37:20.020
 finances every physical church leader who gets on board and says that what we're doing and applauds

00:37:20.020 --> 00:37:24.980
 us and says hey we're praying for you we love what you're doing is a source of encouragement to us

00:37:24.980 --> 00:37:29.300
 because as somebody who had a lot of hot a lot of times to second guess what we were doing

00:37:29.300 --> 00:37:35.060
 it was the physical church planters that came along us who had planted church you know 15 years before

00:37:35.060 --> 00:37:38.980
 and said what you're doing is the right thing and that made all the difference was was their

00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:42.980
 encouragement it was enormous god takes care of money he paves his streets in gold i'm not worried about money

00:37:42.980 --> 00:37:48.740
 um but their encouragement and getting behind us uh spiritually was huge i mean it was so big

00:37:48.740 --> 00:37:53.860
 i got i gotta remember that god paves his road with money he's got to figure it out like you

00:37:53.860 --> 00:37:59.140
 just won't worry about the other stuff that's that's really good so chris like you're you're

00:37:59.140 --> 00:38:05.300
 interesting in this in this equation um these other guys like they're they're making money off the

00:38:05.300 --> 00:38:10.660
 church the end game is their their full-time employee kind of heading that way and that may be for you

00:38:10.660 --> 00:38:15.380
 one day we've we've had the conversation but you're a uh entrepreneur you own your own business or at

00:38:15.380 --> 00:38:21.220
 least at this point now you've partnered merged with another uh business kind of doing concrete

00:38:21.220 --> 00:38:28.740
 pouring in um in kentucky so you like if you ever need a foundation poured like chris is the guy uh you

00:38:28.740 --> 00:38:32.420
 can we'll put link in the show notes you can obviously connect up afterwards uh i don't chris i

00:38:32.420 --> 00:38:38.660
 don't know if i can help you get any business in kentucky but you're trying to do like a so i we use

00:38:38.660 --> 00:38:43.380
 the term co-vocational where you're you're doing ministry digitally but your full-time job is

00:38:43.380 --> 00:38:49.380
 something else and and one of one of the observations i've i've learned talking with digital planters is

00:38:49.380 --> 00:38:56.260
 there's a lot of people like you who are doing a business and oh by the way they want to do a church on

00:38:56.260 --> 00:39:02.180
 the side just you know just recently i had a conversation with the it director for a um or a

00:39:02.180 --> 00:39:08.180
 systems manager for a fortune 500 company and basically he's like jeff no church is going to be able to

00:39:08.180 --> 00:39:13.620
 afford my salary i want to keep my job i just want to do kind of the the ministry thing on the side so

00:39:13.620 --> 00:39:18.900
 i'm wondering chris like what's that tension for you being co-vocational where it's not full-time

00:39:19.540 --> 00:39:25.620
 um but you're you're still are doing ministry you are still being very effective in onboarding and

00:39:25.620 --> 00:39:30.740
 starting this church it was what support looked like what's long-term look like being

00:39:31.380 --> 00:39:38.660
 co-vocational working versus not like kind of what's your heart here um towards towards the church yeah so

00:39:39.380 --> 00:39:47.300
 early in 2018 um got opened the door for us to start a business i've been pouring concrete my

00:39:47.300 --> 00:39:53.140
 whole life we had talked about going into business for ourselves a lot but it was in 2018 it just

00:39:53.700 --> 00:39:59.700
 literally fell in my lap like i could not have planned this the way it happened i was unprepared

00:39:59.700 --> 00:40:06.260
 i'm struggling to find insurance and all the the tax stuff before i can start my first job because

00:40:06.260 --> 00:40:11.780
 they want me to start and i'm scrambling just trying to get everything caught up god god worked that out

00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:21.540
 and so uh and during the time of me praying in 2018 one was one of the things that that i was praying

00:40:21.540 --> 00:40:27.780
 was that this is what you have for me like if you want this this business to work then you have to do

00:40:27.780 --> 00:40:32.740
 it um there were some other things that we were praying for god if this is where if you want us in

00:40:32.740 --> 00:40:38.180
 beaver dam kentucky because i'd really like to come down there where you are jeff uh maybe not miami

00:40:38.180 --> 00:40:43.380
 exactly but you know down that direction uh god if this is where then you're gonna have to let this

00:40:43.380 --> 00:40:48.020
 stuff fall into place and i'm secretly praying that it doesn't like i don't want the business to go

00:40:48.020 --> 00:40:51.540
 you know take off i don't want some of the other things to fall in place because i want god to

00:40:52.260 --> 00:40:55.460
 i know a state overseer in florida let me go down there and pastor a church

00:40:56.580 --> 00:41:01.780
 um but god this is where he had me and so i realized that this is i'm here for a purpose i'm here for a

00:41:01.780 --> 00:41:10.980
 reason all this stuff happened and at the end of 2020 we really began to look at planting a church

00:41:10.980 --> 00:41:18.660
 going full-time in the church or uh closing the business or continuing the business and doing doing

00:41:18.660 --> 00:41:24.740
 both and uh god worked it out that we was able to partner with uh another business and we actually

00:41:24.740 --> 00:41:34.180
 merged our companies and he has been so gracious uh to really keep me out of the field and more in

00:41:34.180 --> 00:41:40.020
 the office and that allows me to be able to split my time between between work and always not every

00:41:40.020 --> 00:41:44.900
 week's like that but you know i can split my time between doing stuff for the church doing stuff for the

00:41:44.900 --> 00:41:53.380
 business um and then our our sending church um has been wonderful um he he has just gotten behind us

00:41:53.380 --> 00:42:00.580
 and like everybody else we still attend in fact we still lead worship for them um and uh they have

00:42:00.580 --> 00:42:05.380
 it's we don't even look at it kind of like them sending it just is that they're a partner they're

00:42:05.380 --> 00:42:10.820
 a partner church for us we help them they help us and uh we have been in this in ministry and the

00:42:10.820 --> 00:42:17.780
 pastor i know uh from the very first time i met him he did not know me he just uh really opened his arms

00:42:17.780 --> 00:42:25.380
 and welcomed me in there and he has been uh truly uh behind us and for us from day one and uh and so

00:42:25.380 --> 00:42:30.740
 on the denominational scale i talked to our denominational leader in the state and he said

00:42:30.740 --> 00:42:36.100
 that they were going to have a meeting about digital church to see if that's a real thing or not and i still

00:42:36.100 --> 00:42:42.660
 haven't heard the result of that meeting so so what what is a challenge what what's something

00:42:42.660 --> 00:42:48.980
 that you weren't expecting what what was the hurdle the surprise the gotcha um in this entire process

00:42:48.980 --> 00:42:54.020
 whether attached to stadia or not i'd love to know what's the thing that took you by surprise uh through

00:42:54.020 --> 00:43:00.420
 this experience you know for us we launched a couple of weeks ago and so you know we've we've

00:43:00.420 --> 00:43:05.620
 processed and and i i say that loosely because i look at honestly what chesley and chris are doing

00:43:05.620 --> 00:43:10.100
 and i'm like they launched they're just not telling anybody yet right like like chris has been doing

00:43:10.100 --> 00:43:14.580
 live he's been doing online church for a year so he keeps saying i'm gonna launch in september but

00:43:14.580 --> 00:43:18.980
 really he launched a year before i did um and chesley's already building the infrastructure and the

00:43:18.980 --> 00:43:22.740
 ministry and the teams and if if that if it's about equipping the saints for the work and ministry

00:43:22.740 --> 00:43:27.220
 chesley's already doing it so um so i would argue that they've they've launched even if they

00:43:27.220 --> 00:43:31.700
 don't want to officially say that they have but we have officially said that we have and i think the

00:43:31.700 --> 00:43:38.740
 one challenge that i didn't expect was that the church remains full of people just because you

00:43:38.740 --> 00:43:44.260
 started a new thing doesn't mean that you sort of summoned perfect saints out of nowhere who are as

00:43:44.260 --> 00:43:49.620
 driven as you are and share the same exact vision for the church the same moment that you have shared

00:43:49.620 --> 00:43:55.540
 it right like they're they're still like they're still attending you know people are still gonna attend

00:43:55.540 --> 00:43:58.820
 once a month even though you're doing it digitally even though you're doing this new thing and you

00:43:58.820 --> 00:44:02.820
 feel like this is revolutionary it's going to change the shape of the church and the future is going to

00:44:02.820 --> 00:44:07.300
 be different because of a product of what we're doing and we're fighting back evil in in sort of the

00:44:07.300 --> 00:44:12.180
 online world and we're bringing hope to people who don't know jesus and like i'm about all of those

00:44:12.180 --> 00:44:19.220
 things and i would have expected it physically for people to be like yeah i'm 40 in um and i have 100 in

00:44:19.220 --> 00:44:24.740
 people like i and you do you have 100 in people i thought i'd have 100 100 of 100 of people and

00:44:24.740 --> 00:44:28.660
 that's just not the case so the same things that you deal with in the physical church like you're

00:44:28.660 --> 00:44:35.300
 going to deal with here if you're if you're trying to escape lukewarm believers like there is a plethora

00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:39.700
 of them that are online they they all have a facebook account just the same as they can show up to your

00:44:39.700 --> 00:44:45.460
 church and so you know i i think that was a little shocking to me like i was a little taken aback and i was

00:44:45.460 --> 00:44:49.780
 like oh okay like this just takes longer right like we have to cast vision we have to invest in

00:44:49.780 --> 00:44:54.420
 people's lives we have to build a base we have to do all the things we would have done um and that's

00:44:54.420 --> 00:45:00.260
 okay like that's a that's an okay thing um it was just at first it was somewhat surprising to me you

00:45:00.260 --> 00:45:03.780
 know the same is going to be true people who come to faith for the first time you're going to be most

00:45:03.780 --> 00:45:08.260
 like zealous and passionate people who are also potentially the most reckless people for your

00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:13.460
 church to put in leadership that's going to be true physically it's going to be true so actually some of

00:45:13.460 --> 00:45:18.500
 the stuff that was the same between the physical and the digital church was surprising to me that's

00:45:18.500 --> 00:45:23.780
 some of the stuff that's caught me off guard other than that um there hasn't been a tremendous amount

00:45:23.780 --> 00:45:28.900
 of of things that have been like i didn't see that coming like you kind of look and you know what

00:45:28.900 --> 00:45:31.780
 questions you're going to get asked you know kind of some of the problems that you're going to

00:45:31.780 --> 00:45:36.820
 have i'll say this don't do what we did do not open up a public forum for spiritual questions that

00:45:36.820 --> 00:45:42.340
 allows anyone to answer because theological discussions are a dumpster fire in person they're two times a dumpster fire

00:45:42.340 --> 00:45:46.580
 online that was a mistake i will not make again that one that one also caught me i was like

00:45:47.140 --> 00:45:51.140
 people are genuine and incredible and and they're just going to come in here and they're going to

00:45:51.140 --> 00:45:55.860
 give really great responses and they're not going to be rude then then and my community was great but

00:45:55.860 --> 00:46:01.380
 the writing was on the wall it's like oh man like okay we gotta we gotta shut this down early on that

00:46:01.380 --> 00:46:07.060
 was the other point of surprise hey i want i want to have a conversation and actually let's do it now mark

00:46:07.060 --> 00:46:14.740
 um tell me the story of of the guy you've sent me the the feedback from the day of um i'm trying to

00:46:14.740 --> 00:46:19.060
 remember his name but honestly i'm i'm okay not saying it because i don't want to make it public but

00:46:19.060 --> 00:46:24.420
 talk to me a little bit about about the individual with uh the com the comment that you shared with me

00:46:24.420 --> 00:46:28.900
 sure i'll be quick with that but um basically we had a gentleman who joined one of my online

00:46:28.900 --> 00:46:32.660
 communities that revolves around the podcast that we do that we're using kind of missionally

00:46:32.660 --> 00:46:36.900
 um he goes by this green name majestic purple buffalo i won't give his real name i'll call him

00:46:36.900 --> 00:46:41.620
 majestic um he had kind of lurked in the community which in the online world the gaming world is kind

00:46:41.620 --> 00:46:47.620
 of like i'm here i'm reading stuff i'm present but i'm not posting so you can't see me um we invited

00:46:47.620 --> 00:46:51.860
 people to join our church he was going through a really hard time in life he was going through a

00:46:51.860 --> 00:46:56.500
 divorce he was going through a change in occupations covet screwed everything up he was at a really

00:46:56.500 --> 00:47:01.940
 desperate point and he decided to click on the link to come join our church community and through that in

00:47:01.940 --> 00:47:06.020
 week two he came to faith and this is a guy who'd never been to church in 10 he ended up in a church

00:47:06.020 --> 00:47:12.500
 in 10 years um grew up in the catholic church and uh had kind of walked away from it uh had very had

00:47:12.500 --> 00:47:17.940
 big problems with the church in general and yet he felt when he came to our online service he said this

00:47:17.940 --> 00:47:24.980
 is the first time i've been back in a church in in 10 years now that doesn't justify digital church in

00:47:24.980 --> 00:47:29.860
 and of itself it just shows that when people who have not been to church in 10 years show up to a digital

00:47:29.860 --> 00:47:34.660
 service they view themselves as attending church they don't view themselves as watching your stream

00:47:34.660 --> 00:47:39.380
 they view themselves as i have now been to church which is an important thing to take note of if

00:47:39.380 --> 00:47:44.980
 you're a physical church person because the non-believing world views themselves as having attended church

00:47:44.980 --> 00:47:49.700
 if they come to your online service then then after coming to faith you know we had a meetup

00:47:49.700 --> 00:47:53.620
 we talked about that he told me and that messaged me a couple days later said he prayed for the first time

00:47:53.620 --> 00:47:59.300
 literally just messaged me today and he said he had something exciting that was going on tonight

00:47:59.300 --> 00:48:04.180
 and he said i just didn't have anybody to tell i wanted to tell somebody so that there's a couple

00:48:04.180 --> 00:48:10.420
 things that happened there one he viewed our church as a church two he's returned to faith in jesus and he

00:48:10.420 --> 00:48:16.500
 wants to follow jesus which is incredible three we've developed a relationship in the past four weeks

00:48:16.500 --> 00:48:20.500
 that's deep enough that he would share something with me that he doesn't feel comfortable sharing

00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:26.980
 with any physical relationship all of those things paint a beautiful picture of why and that's not the

00:48:26.980 --> 00:48:32.340
 only story that lux has in the first three weeks of beautiful things happening it just paints a picture

00:48:32.340 --> 00:48:37.300
 of like hey this is why the digital stuff works well and it's if nothing else it also paints the picture

00:48:37.300 --> 00:48:41.620
 of hey we're not trying to compete with what's happening in the physical building we're trying to reach a

00:48:41.620 --> 00:48:48.740
 different person uh majestic purple buffalo let's call him magi for short uh evidently has not been in

00:48:48.740 --> 00:48:54.180
 a church building for 10 years because of something in his life uh and so without doing a different

00:48:54.180 --> 00:48:59.300
 stated as multimodal different types of churches for different types of people discipleship even looks

00:48:59.300 --> 00:49:06.260
 different contextually and so doing that reaching majestic purple buffalo i feel weird saying it but

00:49:06.260 --> 00:49:11.940
 reaching this guy in digital space um guess what probably wasn't happening in a physical space

00:49:11.940 --> 00:49:17.700
 anytime soon so by doing a different thing right literally this is an example of how we're reaching

00:49:17.700 --> 00:49:22.420
 a different type of person sorry that was a tangent it was a necessary tangent and something i definitely

00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:28.660
 wanted to squeeze in chesley chris uh the the the question at the core here is man what was

00:49:28.660 --> 00:49:34.100
 what's the hurdle what's the thing that surprised you uh with mark one of the examples was what's

00:49:34.100 --> 00:49:39.140
 similar and what's different with physical and digital like for for you guys what's been the surprise for

00:49:39.140 --> 00:49:45.140
 you uh in this process chris why don't you go next well this is kind of this has not been a bad surprise

00:49:45.140 --> 00:49:50.500
 we'll go a good surprise in this and that and she probably would hate me for saying this but i'm

00:49:50.500 --> 00:49:56.420
 i'm gonna say christy christy has really surprised me and stepped up um now we've always been partners in

00:49:56.420 --> 00:50:03.620
 ministry and we've always have worked together ever since even before we were married uh but uh she

00:50:04.100 --> 00:50:14.020
 steps up uh has stepped up and really has found found her place in this and uh her voice and uh

00:50:14.020 --> 00:50:19.300
 leads these studies if i'm out at work and so and kind of go back to the the whole you know support how

00:50:19.300 --> 00:50:24.660
 how can i run a business and do do things well i have have great support at home too um not that i've

00:50:24.660 --> 00:50:30.020
 never doubted her but some of the things that she has has done and has has agreed to do it's just

00:50:30.020 --> 00:50:38.900
 kind of been been a good surprise a great surprise one that i'm thankful for that um hurdles you know just

00:50:38.900 --> 00:50:46.340
 for me personally is just trying to find a balance between the work and the church and home

00:50:46.340 --> 00:50:51.860
 um in fact i had had a my i had a guy tell me the other day he's like he's i don't understand how

00:50:51.860 --> 00:50:57.780
 you do it he's you know you go to go to covenant we leave worship there on sunday mornings we do our

00:50:57.780 --> 00:51:04.660
 worship relate on sunday nights we go back to covenant on sunday nights uh we do all the he said you lead a

00:51:04.660 --> 00:51:10.660
 business you um do your morning devotions and you still spend time with your family he's like i don't

00:51:10.660 --> 00:51:15.860
 know how you do it all i'm like i don't know how i do it all either um but just the the balance just

00:51:15.860 --> 00:51:21.380
 trying to find that balance and uh and realizing that sometimes it's okay to step away from

00:51:21.380 --> 00:51:28.660
 everything and uh and just just relax in fact you know not to be too long but you know just the other

00:51:28.660 --> 00:51:36.100
 day like i just had that i left the stage singing you know we were singing a song uh the more i seek

00:51:36.100 --> 00:51:42.340
 you and it says i just want to sit at your feet um and i just i left the stage and i just went down and

00:51:42.340 --> 00:51:47.300
 knelt at the altar and prayed because i was tired and i was worn out and i just needed to sit and do

00:51:47.300 --> 00:51:52.340
 what the song said and so uh but i know that was probably a little longer interesting than you was

00:51:52.340 --> 00:51:59.380
 expecting but yeah just challenge for me it's been try to find the balance it's interesting what what

00:51:59.380 --> 00:52:06.820
 does a spouse look like at a digital only like a like a a pastor spouse or you know uh it's it's it's

00:52:06.820 --> 00:52:11.620
 unwritten you know i mean there's only a handful of them out there that that are active and so the

00:52:11.620 --> 00:52:16.740
 responsibilities the roles uh the ministry opportunities to me i think this is one of the

00:52:17.380 --> 00:52:23.460
 um unwritten opportunities right now looking at a digital church the role of the of the spouse to

00:52:23.460 --> 00:52:30.100
 kind of compliment in there or to lead out so chesley well kind of for you uh what's what's been one of

00:52:30.100 --> 00:52:36.420
 these uh hurdles or surprises for you i think the biggest surprise for me is that people didn't just

00:52:36.420 --> 00:52:44.420
 go and say yeah that's a good idea i don't know why i didn't have that idea my like i don't know why

00:52:44.420 --> 00:52:50.660
 i thought hey you know this is where kids are at gen z and millennials and young professionals and

00:52:51.380 --> 00:52:59.700
 then i'm like obviously we need to do this and it wasn't so obvious so for me i uh i was taken aback

00:52:59.700 --> 00:53:08.660
 when i uh really he's become a really support like huge supporter of what we're doing but the first

00:53:08.660 --> 00:53:16.020
 conversation i had with this person he's a pastor of a church uh in our organization and he's like well

00:53:16.020 --> 00:53:24.820
 should we do this he's like can you be the church in a digital space and i'm i'm like confused i i'm

00:53:24.820 --> 00:53:32.740
 like i don't i don't understand the question um and one of my good friends was like he's 37 he's a

00:53:32.740 --> 00:53:39.220
 a pastor in a church of ohio like he's like i don't i don't know man and then his uh one of his

00:53:39.220 --> 00:53:45.140
 leaders had to move two hours away she couldn't be a part of his church and i'm like but she can be

00:53:45.140 --> 00:53:50.340
 a part of mine so and now you know my friend's on the board but he still doesn't quite understand

00:53:50.340 --> 00:53:57.540
 digital and um one of the conversations i had was is digital relationships real relationships and

00:53:58.420 --> 00:54:04.580
 you know i'm like okay hey do you do you actually do like facetime or zoom or any of this with your

00:54:04.580 --> 00:54:11.700
 with your grandkids and they're like yeah i'm like far be it from me to go tell your grandkids that what

00:54:11.700 --> 00:54:21.460
 you're doing is not real relationship i'm like we need a better we need a better construct and a better

00:54:21.460 --> 00:54:28.100
 paradigm uh of what it means to be the church in a digital space i just i was taken aback by it and i

00:54:28.100 --> 00:54:34.660
 could either get bitter by it or we could actually start helping churches get better and so um i think

00:54:35.220 --> 00:54:40.660
 i think that was the biggest surprise and i think people are starting to see it but there's still a

00:54:40.660 --> 00:54:45.780
 lot of questions out there i just didn't i wasn't aware i just not thought hey this is the best option

00:54:46.340 --> 00:54:51.380
 you know you you would think well let's let's look at it this way and i and i think you guys phrased

00:54:51.380 --> 00:54:57.780
 it earlier it's gotten a lot easier and there is more support as as a result of the global

00:54:57.780 --> 00:55:03.940
 pandemic uh but i still think there are some questions out there and honestly what you guys

00:55:03.940 --> 00:55:11.940
 are doing by paving that road i mark i've told the story of majestic purple buffalo man if i said at

00:55:11.940 --> 00:55:18.980
 least 100 people that i'm not exaggerating it's probably even more than that uh because it it's the

00:55:18.980 --> 00:55:27.460
 example of why we are doing digital church planting it's the reason why it's you're not stealing from you're

00:55:27.460 --> 00:55:32.340
 you're not taking lazy people and putting them in you're reaching a different type of person that

00:55:32.340 --> 00:55:39.780
 the building that that strategy is is not able to reach uh and and so like to celebrate that to draw

00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:45.940
 attention to that and realize that that person thinks it's church they're not looking at it anything

00:55:45.940 --> 00:55:54.420
 a lost person at any different level then hey this is a church experience and my pastor actually gives

00:55:54.420 --> 00:56:00.980
 a darn about me and so some of that and seeing those relationships develop digitally and twitch and

00:56:00.980 --> 00:56:07.780
 facebook and in the social media networks and and the things that that we're doing um yeah let's we need

00:56:07.780 --> 00:56:14.660
 to do this more we need to help others pick up this this mantle and and run with it so hey let's let's do

00:56:14.660 --> 00:56:20.900
 this as as we're landing the plane um i'd love just maybe thoughts i want an encouraging word from each

00:56:20.900 --> 00:56:26.820
 of you there's somebody out there who's thinking about planting uh a digital church maybe it's a

00:56:26.820 --> 00:56:32.180
 co-vocational thing they want to balance that work life maybe they're doing literally what chesley's

00:56:32.180 --> 00:56:39.620
 doing where it's a launch large uh massive kind of strategy up front mark being more of a digital

00:56:39.620 --> 00:56:45.300
 missionary ask kind of doing things on on twitch and periscope like each of you have your different

00:56:45.300 --> 00:56:51.380
 nuances in your strategy and there's different people out there um just a closing word as we're

00:56:51.380 --> 00:56:56.420
 wrapping up and landing the plane here encouraging thought to somebody that's out there wanting to do

00:56:56.420 --> 00:57:03.140
 what you're doing who wants to go first jeff do you still use periscope did i say periscope you said

00:57:03.140 --> 00:57:08.020
 periscope what was it that you were on the other day that was like you were telling like it's like

00:57:08.020 --> 00:57:13.460
 the rotary phone of digital like back wait wait wait i'm honest to god i said periscope i will call

00:57:13.460 --> 00:57:18.580
 myself out publicly if i said that yeah you said what was i trying to say you're doing ministry on twitch

00:57:18.580 --> 00:57:24.260
 and periscope yeah i meant discord i apologize oh that's fine and discord just making sure you

00:57:24.260 --> 00:57:31.780
 weren't using it still on so many platforms for so many years yeah i can't seem to get anybody to

00:57:31.780 --> 00:57:38.180
 read i can't reach anybody on periscope you're the only one there that's it this is yeah touche

00:57:38.980 --> 00:57:43.780
 much love and then for the five actually what's funny is i still do broadcast on periscope when i do

00:57:43.780 --> 00:57:49.700
 everything else the five people out there who are watching on periscope ignore what these guys are

00:57:49.700 --> 00:57:56.820
 saying awesome we're gonna leave all this in the broadcast just just to make it fun we won't cut

00:57:56.820 --> 00:58:02.580
 that part out hey so i don't know who wants to go first uh somebody say something encouraging yeah

00:58:02.580 --> 00:58:10.100
 romans 10 14 who will hear if you don't preach like at the end of the day don't worry about all

00:58:10.100 --> 00:58:16.900
 the haters you know haters gonna hate and that's a great taylor swift song but you need to go preach

00:58:16.900 --> 00:58:21.860
 because god has wired you to do it so go do it well i'll just say a word of encouragement to chesley

00:58:21.860 --> 00:58:28.180
 and that is the taylor swift is also close to my heart um and then my word of encouragement for others

00:58:28.180 --> 00:58:34.180
 is that the digital church opens doors for a lot of people who never previous who who were given the

00:58:34.180 --> 00:58:40.500
 burden by the holy spirit to plan but have it just felt like they don't have the particular gifting

00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:49.700
 personality or skill set to do it the digital church in so many ways can remove or emphasize

00:58:49.700 --> 00:58:56.340
 the superstar personality right it but it i think that the the the challenge with it is that people

00:58:56.340 --> 00:59:00.820
 think it's it's only that right because they just think of people who've gone viral they see online

00:59:00.820 --> 00:59:05.700
 they think viral videos they think charlie bit my finger and what they don't realize is that the

00:59:05.700 --> 00:59:12.180
 digital church is relational at its core and you can actually do that in really powerful ways without

00:59:12.180 --> 00:59:18.740
 being the best communicator right without being the most charismatic leader um you can minister to

00:59:18.740 --> 00:59:24.980
 people digitally and start digital small groups bible studies and communities um even if you felt like

00:59:24.980 --> 00:59:29.700
 you didn't really have the skill set that it was going to take to plant a traditional church because

00:59:29.700 --> 00:59:35.460
 the traditional church is you have to draw draw a crowd in in the digital church you can kind of go to

00:59:35.460 --> 00:59:40.260
 the crowd and uh and mingle with the crowd and and and start conversations amongst the crowd and

00:59:40.260 --> 00:59:45.460
 there's so much of that that's really cool you know for me like my prayer my primary and only gifting in

00:59:45.460 --> 00:59:50.260
 ministry is communication that's the only thing i got i'm lucky that it's the swiss army knife of

00:59:50.260 --> 00:59:54.820
 ministry because i can do a little bit of everything with it but i'm not really good at anything else

00:59:54.820 --> 00:59:59.700
 so my church relies heavily on my gifting and communication um but that it doesn't need to be

00:59:59.700 --> 01:00:06.100
 the rule right like lux doesn't have to be the rule there is way more to explore in the digital space

01:00:06.100 --> 01:00:11.940
 the fact that king city and relate and lux are all three digital expressions of the church but they look

01:00:11.940 --> 01:00:18.500
 so different they look so different and they rely on completely different skill sets i never would

01:00:18.500 --> 01:00:23.060
 have dreamed of starting relate or starting king city and i have zero desire to start relate or king

01:00:23.060 --> 01:00:28.340
 city and i'm so thankful that chris and chesley do have that desire because god has called out unique

01:00:28.340 --> 01:00:35.060
 giftings in them in the digital space allows you to do that the world is so much bigger and you can find

01:00:35.060 --> 01:00:40.500
 that niche so much easier and that that is a really really big blessing i think of the digital church

01:00:40.500 --> 01:00:45.140
 if i had an encouragement to people like if you have felt called to ministry or felt called to plant

01:00:45.140 --> 01:00:50.020
 but didn't feel like you had the particular gifting set of craig rochelle you don't need it to be able

01:00:50.020 --> 01:00:55.700
 to get into digital ministry god will craft that around you and that's an amazing thing yeah so so true right

01:00:55.700 --> 01:01:01.220
 there uh so many different models so many different strategies even beyond these three like there there's

01:01:01.220 --> 01:01:06.020
 there there are different strategies beyond what these these guys are doing and so it's one of the

01:01:06.020 --> 01:01:11.780
 reasons why it's so fun kind of taking the posture of of learner uh from these man what are you doing

01:01:11.780 --> 01:01:16.980
 what makes it i met a guy the other day and i didn't know he existed he's been around three years

01:01:16.980 --> 01:01:25.540
 he essentially does micro church micro locations using zoom uh and he does like yeah it's like six

01:01:25.540 --> 01:01:31.940
 seven church services a week daily um like a church service day and he's basically creating micro

01:01:31.940 --> 01:01:38.100
 locations using zoom technology like this is phenomenal never would have thought of it um and it has

01:01:38.100 --> 01:01:43.620
 once again that too yeah and that has nothing to do with periscope either i just want to publicly say that

01:01:43.620 --> 01:01:48.100
 okay chris what what what how about how about for you what's what's an encouraging word from you

01:01:48.740 --> 01:01:55.780
 take the step um you don't have to know every step um when when god told abraham to go he didn't

01:01:55.780 --> 01:02:00.660
 tell him the whole step he said just go where i will show you uh when he was leading the children

01:02:00.660 --> 01:02:06.900
 of israel out of egypt they just followed the pillar of the cloud when it went they went when it stopped

01:02:06.900 --> 01:02:11.700
 they stopped just go as you begin to take the first step god will show you the next step and and

01:02:11.700 --> 01:02:17.140
 that's just from my personal life i know that you know as soon as we said we was going to start a

01:02:17.140 --> 01:02:24.900
 church and then a few months later it was no we're going to start a digital church and just watching

01:02:24.900 --> 01:02:32.020
 how god has transformed even from where we started doing ministry unofficially launched ministry um to

01:02:32.020 --> 01:02:38.980
 where we are now um and just taking the steps that god leads us um it's just a step by step so um

01:02:38.980 --> 01:02:44.420
 i'm one who will who who hesitates to start until i have everything laid out the one thing i've got

01:02:44.420 --> 01:02:50.020
 to learn is just trust in god and and just take the step he will show you the way just take the step

01:02:50.020 --> 01:02:56.100
 love it uh hey so we're going to land the plane this has been a great conversation um anytime i get

01:02:56.100 --> 01:03:01.460
 around talk digital only church planting especially guys that that have gone through this cohort really

01:03:01.460 --> 01:03:07.300
 excited about excited to see the stuff mark's doing honestly chris has probably already launched his

01:03:07.300 --> 01:03:12.420
 church three times still got to fine tune some things we're working on that but look excited to

01:03:12.420 --> 01:03:18.100
 see what what both he and and chesley are going to be coming out with um in the fall and beyond so

01:03:18.100 --> 01:03:22.420
 we're going to include contact information for them in the show notes feel free to dig in into that

01:03:22.980 --> 01:03:28.820
 uh but remember like when we're doing this digital church planting we're reaching a different type of

01:03:28.820 --> 01:03:35.140
 person uh and so for those of you out there who have this crazy idea that you're like oh this will

01:03:35.140 --> 01:03:40.580
 never work or you've been on a church staff where your lead pastor your executive pastor your

01:03:40.580 --> 01:03:46.340
 denominational contact somebody's looking at you and saying hey that's crazy no that's stupid no it

01:03:46.340 --> 01:03:54.020
 doesn't work that way um i'm here to tell you it may that may be right or let's talk about it and and

01:03:54.020 --> 01:03:59.380
 let's see what we can do i literally have conversations with crazy people every day and and it's

01:03:59.380 --> 01:04:06.580
 fascinating to me what was crazy maybe pre-covid is no longer crazy today so let's have some

01:04:06.580 --> 01:04:13.220
 conversations and and stadia we would love to talk about innovation to help mothers get aware of that

01:04:13.220 --> 01:04:19.380
 innovation and maybe find ways to help you plant a digital church so uh let's we'll wrap here for

01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:24.820
 chesley for mark for chris this is jeff with the church digital and stadia church planning thanks for

01:04:24.820 --> 01:04:28.660
 joining us here at the show we'll see you next time here at the pod you have a good day