WEBVTT

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 So it's no secret of one of my previous employments, one of my jobs here working as a church staff was digital pastor at Christ Fellowship Miami.

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 And I operated within the years, I call it roughly 2015 to 2018, enjoyed my time there.

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 I actually grew up in Christ Fellowship Miami, off and on been on staff there.

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 Honestly, going all the way back to like Hurricane Andrew in 1992, when I was a student intern, when I was in high school.

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 So I have a great relationship with the church.

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 And in my own life, I parted ways in 2018 as I felt God was leading me towards starting the church digital, which led me towards Stadia.

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 And now looking at where God has me, I love the church Christ Fellowship Miami and love the ministry that's happening there.

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 But I can see how God was moving through me by having me leave and move on.

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 While I was there, though, as I was getting ready to walk out the door, I handed the keys to digital over to my friend, Ray DeArmis, who at the time was involved, actually, who was overseeing one of Christ Fellowship Miami's physical campuses.

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 And so Ray, of course, has been digital pastor at Christ Fellowship Miami for three some years, 2018 up to pretty much like right now, where Ray just recently resigned at Christ Fellowship Miami and is no longer going to be on a church staff at all.

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 And instead, what we talked about in a previous podcast here with Ray, he's going almost into like a personal mission as he's going back to school to get a degree as a medical technician of sorts, a medical assistant.

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 And it's going to be, for him, he's looking at his next mission field as a hospital.

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 He wants to go and be a missionary of sorts, working among the people in the community that centers in and around the hospital, both the patients and the nurses and the doctors and the people with that.

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 And so this is a fascinating concept, but none of it has anything to do with digital ministry, at least in Ray's context.

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 And so we talked and celebrated Ray, and if you want to go back to that podcast, you can listen to it, feel free to.

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 But with this one, we really wanted to focus on what's next, because just like I, in 2018, worked and handed over the keys to Ray DeArmas, which was a decent transition, probably could have been better.

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 But in all things, Ray was set up to succeed and went on to do that.

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 And what's fascinating is now, coming in, Ray is setting up the next person to succeed as well.

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 And so I wanted to bring on Brandon Arndt, who is now the new digital pastor at Christ Fellowship Miami, to have that conversation.

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 Hey, what are the things you're most excited about?

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 What are you, what's your biggest fear right now?

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 What's the biggest challenge?

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 What's the hurdles?

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 What's the obstacles?

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 How do you feel you were prepared for this job?

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 Was this something, with a student ministry background, was there, were there things in student ministry that you prepared you for this?

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 Or are you, who are your sources?

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 Who are you falling back on to get information?

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 Who's challenging you right now in this digital pastor job?

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 Oh, so much we dove into here.

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 Look, here's what we know.

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 Lots of people are doing digital ministry today.

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 Lots of churches are learning and growing, even in this post-COVID era, even as we're flying back to the building as quick as we can.

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 There are still churches that are doing and are seeing thriving ministry happening digitally.

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 And we're starting to empower staff to come on board and be the leaders of this in digital space.

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 And so, for this podcast conversation, I wanted to bring on a new guy.

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 A new guy that's coming in, that's trying to figure out how to do digital ministry.

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 Maybe seeing some examples of how this has been happening previously, as he's had Ray to fall back on.

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 And even texting me on occasion, asking me questions with some nuanced issues.

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 So, he's got a source.

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 But how is he handling this?

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 How is he getting in there and trying to figure out how to lead a digital movement out of a multi-site mega church, globally reaching here in South Florida?

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 So, some interesting challenges that I think are going to parallel to where you guys are as a church, big and or small.

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 And so, here we are.

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 We're bringing in Brandon Arndt, current digital pastor with Christ Fellowship Miami.

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 You're bringing in Ray DeArmis, co-host once again with the church digital, former digital pastor of Christ Fellowship Miami.

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 You're bringing in myself, Jeff, the church digital, of course, powered by Stadia Church Planning.

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 Of course, once again, and former digital pastor of Christ Fellowship Miami.

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 And all of us is centered around a conversation that I'm simply calling here, the road of a new digital pastor.

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 Okay, everybody, here you go.

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 Hey, maybe just kick us off here a little bit, Brandon.

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 Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you ended up being the digital pastor at Christ Fellowship Miami.

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 Oh, wow.

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 That's a, well, I don't know if we've got enough time for all that.

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 But I grew up, originally grew up in North Alabama.

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 Grew up there, moved to Miami in 2013 to help plant a church in North Miami.

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 And then ended up at CF as a student guy from that, from the church plant partnership with Christ Fellowship.

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 Ended up there working under Ray as a student guy at Christ Fellowship.

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 And then from there, moved up doing some weekend experience stuff for students while doing the student director stuff.

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 And then COVID hit, and since I was the weekend experience person, it now became my job to be the online student, oversee online students.

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 So that's how I started.

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 That's the first little dabble into online stuff.

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 And then a little bit into COVID, Ray hit me up of, hey, I need some help because this is a large monster.

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 And I've been doing this all by myself for a while.

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 And we're finally able to add somebody.

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 And, hey, how do you feel about doing it?

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 And so it's a fun time for me.

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 So I was like, sure.

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 I love learning new things and doing things.

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 So, okay, let's go.

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 So that's how I ended up there.

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 That's the short version.

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 I know I told you it was going to be long, but that was pretty short.

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 That was impressive.

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 So let's just get to the heart of this.

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 Ray, I did the job no problem by myself.

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 Why are you being a lazy butt and not able to do – why do you need help, bro?

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 I mean, we both know I'm not.

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 I was doing like two or three jobs with that role when I was there.

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 You can't even –

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 We both know I'm not half as gifted as you, Jeff.

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 So, I mean, we could start there.

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 But the big thing was – so, I mean, last year with COVID, CF had decided as a church had nowhere to expand to all ministries are going to go online, English and Spanish.

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 Like we decided in one fell swoop that we were going to go bilingual.

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 And mind you, prior to that, and Jeff will remember this, we were – Jeff and I were part of the era of like pulling teeth to try and just get Spanish online.

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 Like, you know, we had English going and kicking strong.

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 That was fine.

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 But just even the thought process in a bilingual city like Miami to get Spanish online was like pulling teeth.

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 And so, COVID hit, everything hits the fan, right?

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 And the next thing you know, our leadership is coming to us and asking for English, Spanish, kids, students, online.

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 And so, in one fell swoop, one of my goals for 2020 was to do a Spanish website.

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 That was a goal for 2020.

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 I got that done in a month.

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 That went from being an annual goal to like a month goal.

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 And it wasn't by myself.

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 I had Romina and Amy Carolero, who's worked with Jeff, and Karina Alonzo, who oversees our Spanish online, actually like speak into it and translate.

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 And then I integrated it in a bunch of stuff.

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 But outside of that, we were having to record.

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 And then we made the same mistake that a lot of churches made where we put a lot of staff really in volunteer positions because we were just looking for things for people to do.

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 But from there, we saw kind of as we were getting ready to reopen, and Christ Fellowship is still forward thinking in this way that digital was going to matter and digital was going to matter for the long haul.

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 Now, don't get me wrong.

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 Digital's audience pre-COVID was already outpacing physical attendance.

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 That was something that was already starting to happen.

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 But then COVID hit, and there is no physical attendance.

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 It's all digital.

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 And so the thought process of just having one person oversee, essentially, what wasn't just the largest campus at that point, but what was the entire church?

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 Because everybody had to go online.

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 It was too much.

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 And so from there, they gave me the pick of the litter, and I knew that Brandon was going to be the bang of choice.

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 And so it was just obvious from the get-go.

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 Brandon mentioned that he and I went way back, and we worked together for years.

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 And Brandon is gifted in many ways that I am not.

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 That's going to work out perfect for digital.

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 And so I was happy to bring him on in that role just because I knew what was there.

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 Brandon, honestly, he's one of those guys, and he's being really humble about himself.

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 It's one of the great things I love about him.

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 But Brandon's the kind of guy that I could put anywhere in the organization, and it's going to get better.

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 I firmly believe that about him, and I've seen it.

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 I saw him do it in students, and then I saw him do it with students online, start something from scratch, and just boom, watch it flourish.

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 And then, sure enough, I knew he was going to continue to go down that thread for adults.

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 So yeah, that's how we ended up there.

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 Love it.

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 Love the connection, the mentoring here, growing into that.

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 And it's been fun, Brandon.

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 It has been fun, even from the outside.

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 I don't know that we worked together really closely, but even from afar, when I was at CF, watching you kind of go through the thing.

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 They're at the North Miami campus, as a student guy, kind of, sort of, with production, but not really, and watching kind of the steps grow.

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 You've always been, and it's interesting, with digital pastors, more often than not, they're, I guess the word would be multifaceted.

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 They've got skills and abilities beyond, you know, what the digital thing is, because digital is such a umbrella that encompasses so much of ministry when it's done right.

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 You don't, you know, you've got somebody who's technical, that's also gifted in communicating, that's also a relational person.

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 Or maybe they're not a relational person, but over time, they understand that and develop those relationships.

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 And so, man, love seeing you in this new role.

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 Now, one of the things that Ray said, and this is an area that I think, honestly, that I think Christ Fellowship's different than a lot of other churches, is, you know, normally when I say things like digital pastor,

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 what I'm talking about is, like, pastoring and shepherding and building relationships and disciple making and figuring out how the service broadcasts and chat hosts and all those things are important.

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 And to my knowledge, Christ Fellowship does, you know, a lot of those things.

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 In context, though, like, Ray, you built a Spanish website.

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 Like, what, beyond building a website, that's the role of digital pastor?

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 Like, what's the, what does the role encompass with you guys?

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 Because I think it's more than what the typical church would look at.

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 Yeah, so, at Christ Fellowship, it really is more of a digital strategist slash pastor kind of a role.

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 So, for instance, you know, when Jeff was with our organization, Jeff, you know, oversaw a lot of stuff.

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 Jeff, you oversaw production, you oversaw arts and comm at one point, you oversaw online.

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 And so, the thought process as I was coming into the role was that Jeff was going to be focused on digital strategy for our church, which was going to encompass the web, the app, and some other things.

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 And I was going to oversee the online community.

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 Well, when Jeff left our organization, we did the thing that not just churches do, but we did the thing that a lot of organizations do, which is we combined two roles into one, which sometimes works and sometimes doesn't.

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 Because ultimately, you're going to be better at one aspect than you are going to be at the other.

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 And something's going to give.

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 Something's going to hurt.

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 Now, that's a side conversation that we talked about with Jay Cranda.

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 You know, you've heard, you can go back in the church digital archives and kind of look at, you know, different types of online pastors and see.

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 I think, Jeff, we did an episode with Jay, right, where we talked about, like, the difference between what I did and what Jay did in the sense of all the things that I oversaw.

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 And Jay was just purely focused on community, which is great if you have a church that can do that.

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 For CF, we're kind of a, we're a megachurch on a shoestring budget, to say the least.

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 And so there were a lot of things that we had to kind of bring underneath this umbrella.

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 That, Brandon, why don't you just let people know what, you know, a week in the life of Brandon Arndt, CF, church online pastor, digital pastor is like?

00:13:25.660 --> 00:13:26.060
 Oh, wow.

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 Yeah.

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 So a week for me is, um, is he's only had like three of them.

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 He's not sure yet.

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 I've had like a month unless we're, unless, unless you checked out on me a lot before we, before you exited the, before you exited the organization and I ran it without knowing I was running it.

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 Put my legs up as soon as I announced I was out.

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 For me, I mean, and that's, I don't know if we'll get into it, but that's been an adjustment that I've had to deal with is moving up to where, what Ray was doing.

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 Uh, because Ray kind of with him being his role, he kind of shadowed out some of the things that would come.

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 Um, so, uh, but a lot of my weeks is, uh, following up with people.

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 Um, we have our connection cards that we push for our, uh, online, um, our online congregation, just like our onsite people.

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 Um, so it's a lot of followup with them.

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 Um, it's, uh, prayer requests that we get, uh, throughout the week and different hours, different times.

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 Uh, we get prayer requests.

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 So it's, it's me following up with those people as well, letting them know that we're here for them as a church and, and, uh, that we're praying for them.

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 Uh, but then outside of that, it's, uh, it's a lot of, I didn't know, like my, I didn't get a web design degree.

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 Uh, but we, I'm making webpages.

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 Um, I mean, we've got, we've got summer at CF coming up.

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 So that's been a big thing for us is, is making, uh, webpages for that and making sure all that stuff looks good.

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 And, uh, so it's making webpages for things.

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 It's updating apps, the app, uh, and, uh, it's putting in sermon notes.

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 It's for the weekend.

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 It's on our apps and uploading videos and doing all these extra things.

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 It's marketing, looking at how do we market our church through a digital thing.

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 Um, you know, it's extra stuff that I've learned from talking to other people around the U.S.

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 that, that I, that, that we have to do that they may not.

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 So that's a, that's a little bit of, of, in the nutshell of, of what, of what I do.

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 Yeah.

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 I'm curious because I really want to dig into the relationship because you've got, you've got a creative department.

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 They've got a social media director.

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 There's tons of people within that group that, that understand marketing at some level.

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 Um, like, and so you're, you're building the webpage.

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 That's, that's a communications tool, but it's also a ministry tool.

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 So what, how, what, what is that relationship?

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 Who, who leads that dance?

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 How, how does that work if you have responsibility, but you're outside of the purview of the department

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 that ideally should be handling communications?

00:16:03.740 --> 00:16:03.940
 Yeah.

00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:08.960
 With communications, I mean, that's, I'm kind of, uh, spearheaded in my view.

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 Uh, Ray, it may have been different with you, but, but, uh, Ben Stapley helps me

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 navigate between communication of the church and, and what we need on the website.

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 So we're all a part, we're still under that.

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 I'm under his umbrella.

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 So web communications, uh, creative is all under his umbrella.

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 So he does a, he does a really good job of, of making sure we know what we're doing.

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 And then also me and the department heads have good relationships as well of where we have,

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 where we're using, um, different stuff like base camp, different things like that.

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 So when we have assignments or big events, things that are coming up, we have those in

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 there to where we can keep track of what's happening.

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 This is the rare role that, that I don't think you see in a whole lot of multi-site churches

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 and that it's both dotted line and campus pastor wrapped up into one because Brandon's

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 got to both oversee a community of people that are meeting online and, you know, that are

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 functioning spiritually and gathering in groups and doing a lot of different stuff.

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 So there's that aspect.

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 But on the other aspect, he's equipping Christ fellowship at large through digital means,

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 whether it's through the app, whether it's through the site, whether it's through

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 digital tools and et cetera.

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 And so it's, it's the rare bit of both that you don't see a whole lot of in many other roles.

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 What, what do you enjoy doing the most?

00:17:27.580 --> 00:17:27.840
 Okay.

00:17:27.840 --> 00:17:32.140
 Like let's, let's pretend your bosses, uh, Ben Stapley is probably going to listen to this

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 because he likes to keep track of track of his people.

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 I do know Jen Tomerlin, uh, Jim, uh, listens on a regular basis.

00:17:38.800 --> 00:17:45.000
 So at some point, two of, of your supervisors are probably listening to this, uh, your boss and

00:17:45.000 --> 00:17:45.900
 your boss's boss.

00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:47.020
 So it'd be great.

00:17:47.560 --> 00:17:49.260
 Um, what, what do you like doing?

00:17:49.360 --> 00:17:51.940
 Like, uh, Brandon, what are you, what are you passionate about?

00:17:52.040 --> 00:17:54.420
 What's, what's the thing that you're like, this is awesome.

00:17:54.540 --> 00:17:58.720
 What's the thing that you're like, uh, this again, kind of what, what are you vibing on?

00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:03.360
 Uh, well, no, the most, like the fun thing to me is when I get to interact with people,

00:18:03.360 --> 00:18:09.640
 um, is, I mean, whenever I get those prayer requests, like I'm, I don't, I don't think they

00:18:09.640 --> 00:18:13.700
 get tired of it, but I always like, that's usually a celebration that I have of like,

00:18:13.700 --> 00:18:18.640
 people are actually, because it, it, it always catches me in awe, whether it was onsite or

00:18:18.640 --> 00:18:26.300
 online of people love God enough and trust our church enough to come alongside, to share

00:18:26.300 --> 00:18:31.040
 their, to share their, what they're going through with us, especially on the onsite.

00:18:31.120 --> 00:18:35.520
 Like a lot of them haven't met me personally through a, through a zoom or anything like

00:18:35.520 --> 00:18:39.860
 that, or, um, or even onsite if they live in Miami, but are part of our online.

00:18:39.860 --> 00:18:45.520
 They haven't met me, but they're sending things in with a trust that our church is going

00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:47.440
 to do what they say they're going to do and pray for them.

00:18:47.720 --> 00:18:51.340
 And so that's an encouragement for me, uh, just to be able to pray for people, getting

00:18:51.340 --> 00:18:55.180
 to walk with people through what they're going through, um, helping them take next steps,

00:18:55.180 --> 00:18:59.100
 like the connection reports that we have of, of what they're interested in.

00:18:59.360 --> 00:19:02.120
 Uh, like that's a, that's a fun thing for me.

00:19:02.120 --> 00:19:07.080
 Uh, I mean, I don't know if it's because I was onsite for so long and, and, you know,

00:19:07.160 --> 00:19:12.160
 it, it gives me a little glimpse of, okay, this is interaction, a relationship that's tangible

00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:17.000
 that I can see and, and hold onto, um, least thing.

00:19:17.500 --> 00:19:20.060
 I don't like marketing at all.

00:19:20.320 --> 00:19:21.860
 Like I don't have a marketing degree.

00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:27.900
 I don't want a marketing degree, um, SEOs and all that stuff just hurts, hurt my head.

00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:35.720
 Like I still can't pinpoint what keyword catapults a video Ray somehow put in a secret one in

00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:39.080
 a couple of videos that just catapulted and I can't figure it out.

00:19:39.140 --> 00:19:40.100
 It's like on a back.

00:19:40.100 --> 00:19:43.060
 Steve Furtick folks, Steve Furtick and all your meta data.

00:19:43.440 --> 00:19:48.780
 It's like a backend of a backend that he found in YouTube somewhere, uh, that's, that's just

00:19:48.780 --> 00:19:51.080
 driving these things and I can't find it.

00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:57.880
 Um, but no, like that's the, that's the part that gets, because to me, it's, it's that,

00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:06.240
 that intangible, I know viewership is, is important because it's getting it out there, but it's

00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:12.700
 also can be manufactured and it also can be like, it can just be there.

00:20:13.400 --> 00:20:16.300
 Like just not, it can be not important at all.

00:20:16.400 --> 00:20:21.880
 Like it, it, it could be just made up people that have accidentally clicked your stuff, but

00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:26.640
 didn't even really get into what you were wanting to say or your contact and they're not

00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:27.980
 integrating into what you're doing.

00:20:27.980 --> 00:20:31.900
 So that's the frustrating side of online for me is the marketing SEO.

00:20:32.460 --> 00:20:39.060
 And then this whole, if we don't, but if you, if you get caught up in the, I've got to see

00:20:39.060 --> 00:20:41.840
 that number continue to skyrocket.

00:20:43.200 --> 00:20:47.200
 And that means we're, that means we're doing great things is because we've got, you know,

00:20:47.240 --> 00:20:53.060
 this video has got 20,000 views, you know, it's that, that's the one that holds me.

00:20:53.060 --> 00:20:58.640
 And mind you, Brandon's seen like CF has seen like great engagement numbers on a regular

00:20:58.640 --> 00:21:01.580
 week to week basis, you know, that you typically don't see a whole lot of churches.

00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:05.320
 Brandon, you want to give some insight as far as like how many people are connecting on a

00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.840
 regular basis?

00:21:06.260 --> 00:21:06.420
 Yeah.

00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:11.100
 I mean, usually for our connection reports, I've got 20 different connections off of that.

00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:14.260
 And then new people taking next steps.

00:21:15.060 --> 00:21:19.820
 We use, I think we're averaging five or six first time guests that, that fill out a card

00:21:19.820 --> 00:21:23.900
 for us right now for the year of people that are doing that.

00:21:25.060 --> 00:21:30.320
 And then also taking next steps and generosity with first time, first time givers and things

00:21:30.320 --> 00:21:36.180
 like that have really been the past little bit has, has picked up a lot of 10 to 12 and

00:21:36.180 --> 00:21:37.760
 then relapse givers as well.

00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:40.180
 People want to get baptized.

00:21:40.360 --> 00:21:45.300
 Like all these things are the measurables that, that make me happy to be a part of on, to be

00:21:45.300 --> 00:21:46.180
 a part of online.

00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:50.000
 It's really what we celebrate or, or I've tried to celebrate.

00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:55.700
 And what Ray has instilled in me to celebrate is these things are people's lives being changed.

00:21:55.700 --> 00:21:57.320
 So you celebrate those things.

00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:04.720
 A view is a view, but you celebrate that view once it, as it takes its next step in its,

00:22:04.900 --> 00:22:07.420
 and in whoever it is, relationship with Jesus.

00:22:08.060 --> 00:22:08.860
 That's, that's awesome.

00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:10.400
 It's not, it's not just about the reach.

00:22:10.460 --> 00:22:16.060
 It's not just about that view, but discipling that view along the journey and celebrating

00:22:16.060 --> 00:22:17.460
 each and every step around the way.

00:22:17.460 --> 00:22:20.580
 That was eloquently said, Brandon, that was impressive.

00:22:20.780 --> 00:22:24.660
 You see, how can you, how can you not think Brandon was going to be the guy?

00:22:24.760 --> 00:22:25.460
 That's what I'm saying.

00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:27.800
 Like, it's just so obvious that he's the guy.

00:22:27.960 --> 00:22:28.400
 That's it.

00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:31.660
 He's had a good trainer along the way.

00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:33.580
 Let's just say it, say it, say it that way.

00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:34.480
 I had a few of them.

00:22:34.520 --> 00:22:34.720
 Yeah.

00:22:35.060 --> 00:22:35.400
 Awesome.

00:22:35.820 --> 00:22:40.080
 Hey, so, so Ray, I mean, just in, in even to drill in, let's, let me ask you this.

00:22:40.180 --> 00:22:40.380
 Why?

00:22:40.900 --> 00:22:41.220
 Okay.

00:22:41.320 --> 00:22:42.300
 And I mean, we were joking.

00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:42.860
 Maybe not.

00:22:43.000 --> 00:22:45.740
 Brandon literally does have a good grasp on this.

00:22:46.320 --> 00:22:47.960
 But what, what were some intangibles?

00:22:48.100 --> 00:22:49.380
 What were you looking for?

00:22:49.480 --> 00:22:51.760
 So, I mean, you're literally, you're, you're leaving.

00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:54.000
 We talked about it in, in, in the previous episode.

00:22:54.480 --> 00:23:01.260
 And you're trying to, to replace yourself and trying to set up the church to succeed moving

00:23:01.260 --> 00:23:01.640
 forward.

00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:03.060
 Everything ended on great terms.

00:23:03.200 --> 00:23:05.680
 No, no ill will, no harm being done.

00:23:05.800 --> 00:23:07.740
 How did you transition?

00:23:07.980 --> 00:23:09.180
 What were the skill sets?

00:23:09.180 --> 00:23:12.900
 What were some of the characteristics you were looking for that led you to Brandon?

00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:19.120
 First thing I would say is, and I, and I kind of alluded to this earlier, Brandon was proven

00:23:19.120 --> 00:23:21.100
 within our organization already.

00:23:21.100 --> 00:23:24.840
 Like there wasn't a doubt in my mind that he's a good leader because I've seen him lead

00:23:24.840 --> 00:23:25.300
 before.

00:23:26.580 --> 00:23:30.060
 Brandon, for me, and, and this isn't an insult to Brandon.

00:23:30.060 --> 00:23:34.280
 It was just, to me, he was one of those guys that didn't get the shot that he deserved.

00:23:34.860 --> 00:23:39.100
 In the sense that he had proven himself over and over and over again in my book.

00:23:39.180 --> 00:23:42.160
 Like I had seen him just win and succeed and do things well.

00:23:43.340 --> 00:23:45.920
 And so Brandon, if I'm speaking out of turn, you know, you go ahead and stop.

00:23:46.100 --> 00:23:48.800
 But that, that just from my perspective was the way that it was.

00:23:49.060 --> 00:23:55.880
 And so I'd seen him win over and over again and, and do things well and not need to be in

00:23:55.880 --> 00:24:00.000
 the lead seat in order to win, which is so big for online.

00:24:00.140 --> 00:24:01.180
 And let me tell you why.

00:24:01.340 --> 00:24:04.580
 Many times physical campus pastors want to be able to communicate.

00:24:04.860 --> 00:24:07.900
 At their physical campus, but that doesn't get to happen for online.

00:24:07.900 --> 00:24:11.640
 The lead communicator or the person communicating on stage is typically the person who has to

00:24:11.640 --> 00:24:13.560
 carry 30 to 40 minutes of the broadcast.

00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:18.220
 And so it takes a lot of humility, but it also takes a lot of leadership skill to say that

00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:22.120
 I don't have to be that person in order to grow community here.

00:24:22.460 --> 00:24:24.400
 And Brandon had that right from the get go.

00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:28.700
 Brandon didn't have to be the person who was speaking on a Friday night at student ministry.

00:24:28.780 --> 00:24:32.520
 He would empower other people to do that so long as he could build relationships

00:24:32.520 --> 00:24:33.160
 with others.

00:24:33.380 --> 00:24:38.560
 And so as soon as I saw that, that intangible and intangible quality about him, I said,

00:24:38.620 --> 00:24:41.540
 man, this guy's going to be a great leader, no matter where we put him in the organization.

00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:47.560
 The only other thing that I needed to know after that is if he wanted it, because you have

00:24:47.560 --> 00:24:49.960
 to want to do ministry online.

00:24:50.080 --> 00:24:54.900
 Like I can't be clear, like this isn't a good role to just drop somebody in.

00:24:55.540 --> 00:24:58.320
 And for those of you church pastors out there, you're just looking for a body.

00:24:58.580 --> 00:25:01.360
 This is not a good role to just put a body in.

00:25:01.480 --> 00:25:04.480
 Like this has to be somebody who's a go-getter and somebody who's driven.

00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:08.380
 And so somebody who actually believes in the vision and mission of your church and carrying

00:25:08.380 --> 00:25:11.580
 that out in a digital landscape.

00:25:12.280 --> 00:25:13.700
 And Brandon very much was that guy.

00:25:13.780 --> 00:25:14.520
 He's a go-getter.

00:25:14.740 --> 00:25:15.920
 He's on top of things.

00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:16.740
 He's organized.

00:25:16.980 --> 00:25:18.280
 He's administratively gifted.

00:25:18.420 --> 00:25:22.740
 But on top of that, I always knew that he was going to get the job done.

00:25:22.840 --> 00:25:23.980
 He wasn't going to make excuses.

00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:26.120
 He was going to go after and get at it.

00:25:26.360 --> 00:25:29.660
 And if he couldn't figure it out, he was going to ask or he was going to learn.

00:25:30.700 --> 00:25:35.540
 And all those things are what you need wrapped up in a digital pastor role because there is

00:25:35.540 --> 00:25:40.680
 no figuring this out because it changes so fast and it changes often.

00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:43.880
 Today, we're talking streams and digital groups.

00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:45.380
 Tomorrow, we could be talking VR.

00:25:45.640 --> 00:25:46.260
 We don't know.

00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:50.980
 And so especially in this landscape, you need somebody who's teachable, somebody who's

00:25:50.980 --> 00:25:53.120
 willing to learn, but also somebody who's very driven.

00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:54.880
 And Brandon was all those things.

00:25:55.540 --> 00:25:57.660
 Brandon, care to refute anything he just said?

00:25:57.780 --> 00:25:58.820
 I mean, I don't know.

00:25:58.920 --> 00:26:01.200
 I'm going to have to carry both of you guys around with me.

00:26:01.320 --> 00:26:05.060
 Like, I'm going to get the sound bites of this and so set it on my desk.

00:26:05.100 --> 00:26:10.500
 So when I'm having a bad day, I can just, I can pull up Jeff and Ray and have a, just

00:26:10.500 --> 00:26:13.460
 have that sunshine and rainbows in me, around me.

00:26:13.960 --> 00:26:16.300
 Pastors, I'm going to repeat the statement.

00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.200
 Do not just put anybody to do this role.

00:26:19.640 --> 00:26:22.780
 Like, do not just allow somebody to fill in the gap here.

00:26:22.780 --> 00:26:27.640
 Pick somebody that's a proven leader that you're going to empower to lead this because

00:26:27.640 --> 00:26:28.900
 it matters.

00:26:29.100 --> 00:26:35.020
 And because so much of your church, over 100% of your physical attendance is going to interact

00:26:35.020 --> 00:26:36.180
 with this aspect of your church.

00:26:36.180 --> 00:26:38.980
 Because even your physical attendance, they're going to interact with your digital component

00:26:38.980 --> 00:26:41.000
 and they're going to be sharing the messages.

00:26:41.180 --> 00:26:45.460
 So why not have somebody who is really good interact with this piece?

00:26:45.560 --> 00:26:47.020
 Because you need somebody that's there.

00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:47.920
 Well said.

00:26:48.500 --> 00:26:53.980
 And there, it's funny, there's within Stadia, we're doing so much analysis, character analysis,

00:26:54.220 --> 00:27:01.020
 character development, surveys, digging into what makes for a strong digital pastor, a digital

00:27:01.020 --> 00:27:01.760
 church planter.

00:27:02.960 --> 00:27:05.280
 Entrepreneurial is a high value.

00:27:06.060 --> 00:27:08.180
 Networking disciple maker, high value.

00:27:08.860 --> 00:27:10.380
 Relational, high value.

00:27:11.400 --> 00:27:18.580
 Being able to see gray and not black and white is a high value because so much of doing this

00:27:18.580 --> 00:27:22.800
 digital, it's breaking and it's bending the rules of what's happening digital.

00:27:23.040 --> 00:27:28.200
 So if you've got a rule follower, that's actually one of the worst things you can do in digital

00:27:28.200 --> 00:27:32.680
 space because what you're going to get is physical ministry done digitally, which is going to

00:27:32.680 --> 00:27:38.480
 crash and burn as opposed to really taking advantage of digital, which is bending and melding

00:27:38.480 --> 00:27:42.020
 fidgetal, the physical and the digital pieces together.

00:27:42.220 --> 00:27:45.320
 So yeah, love, love so much of this conversation.

00:27:45.840 --> 00:27:51.700
 Brandon, hey, if you're looking, so student ministry kind of background here a little bit,

00:27:52.380 --> 00:27:56.420
 what, what are some things that, hey, you know what, student ministry prepared me for this

00:27:56.420 --> 00:27:56.680
 job?

00:27:56.820 --> 00:28:01.760
 What, what are some, some characteristics, some traits that it's, it's like, yeah, thank you

00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:05.000
 very much student ministry because I've, I've got that tool in the, in the tool chest.

00:28:05.380 --> 00:28:05.580
 Yeah.

00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:11.800
 Uh, I think probably the biggest thing is where I served that in student ministry within CF

00:28:11.800 --> 00:28:19.400
 and then even before that, um, it was, I've got the freedom to, uh, to try things like we

00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:22.480
 were left alone to, to try things like we could do stuff.

00:28:22.680 --> 00:28:26.880
 Um, so I could throw stuff up against the wall and see what stuck.

00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:29.120
 And then if it stuck, you know, we, we go with that.

00:28:29.180 --> 00:28:31.440
 If it doesn't, Oh, whoops, we don't do that anymore.

00:28:31.500 --> 00:28:34.820
 If we just go on about, we go do something else, we throw something else up there.

00:28:35.360 --> 00:28:41.400
 Um, so I think that's one big thing of like, just not being afraid to, to try new things,

00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:46.520
 um, to try stuff, um, to see what's, what works, what doesn't work.

00:28:46.520 --> 00:28:50.840
 Um, I think that's probably the, one of the biggest tool things.

00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:57.980
 And then also my, my days before CF as a student, uh, uh, student director, like in, in Alabama,

00:28:57.980 --> 00:29:05.100
 one of the things was that I didn't have the robust, uh, stuff that some of the larger

00:29:05.100 --> 00:29:05.940
 churches had.

00:29:06.500 --> 00:29:13.960
 Um, and so it was for a while I had to build up volunteers and then I was having to learn.

00:29:14.080 --> 00:29:15.720
 I didn't have my own production guy.

00:29:15.920 --> 00:29:22.080
 Like that was, that was the, that was me learning how to, how to do pro presenter when it was

00:29:22.080 --> 00:29:27.000
 like, when it was, everybody was still trying to use easy worship and pro presenter came out

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.880
 and it's like, let's switch really quickly, uh, cause this is great.

00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:35.900
 Uh, and so, uh, learning how to do that on my own, learning how to, how to, how to get

00:29:35.900 --> 00:29:36.220
 sent.

00:29:36.300 --> 00:29:37.740
 Like I'm not an, I'm not an audio guy.

00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:44.440
 Um, but learning how to make that to where, uh, to where it's, it doesn't hurt your ears

00:29:44.440 --> 00:29:47.940
 and then recruiting people in to actually know how to do this stuff.

00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:54.160
 Um, I think that's some of that stuff too, is just being able to, or just learning how you,

00:29:54.340 --> 00:29:56.880
 how to grow stuff that's not you, but you're alert.

00:29:57.020 --> 00:30:02.340
 You have to, you learn it first and then you help cultivate somebody else up, bring somebody

00:30:02.340 --> 00:30:05.440
 else along with you to, uh, to help you with that.

00:30:05.440 --> 00:30:07.740
 And so I think that was a big thing with student ministry.

00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:14.300
 Those two things, um, being able to have freedom to, to mess up and be able to throw things up

00:30:14.300 --> 00:30:15.460
 against the wall and see what works.

00:30:15.460 --> 00:30:19.800
 And, and then also being able to build up and having to learn how to do things.

00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:20.200
 Yeah.

00:30:20.280 --> 00:30:23.280
 Having the freedom to mess up changes a lot of things.

00:30:23.280 --> 00:30:26.760
 It gets you aggressive instead of fearful.

00:30:27.080 --> 00:30:32.880
 Um, and, and, and it's interesting church, church leaders often struggle with that.

00:30:32.940 --> 00:30:34.560
 There's a level of expectation.

00:30:34.560 --> 00:30:37.020
 There's a level of excellence.

00:30:37.020 --> 00:30:45.440
 You know, excellence is a great word, but excellence often becomes a shield of let's not change

00:30:45.440 --> 00:30:47.380
 because what we have works.

00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:51.340
 It gets to this place of holding onto what's good.

00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:56.720
 When there may be something great, you just got to have the freedom to experiment, to let

00:30:56.720 --> 00:30:58.000
 go of what's excellent.

00:30:58.560 --> 00:30:59.480
 Try, yeah.

00:30:59.600 --> 00:30:59.920
 Okay.

00:31:00.220 --> 00:31:04.920
 Maybe it's not broke, but we still want to do something different because there may be

00:31:04.920 --> 00:31:06.800
 something better in, in return.

00:31:06.980 --> 00:31:11.520
 And so love that for, for CF and, and hope that you, you continue to have it.

00:31:11.520 --> 00:31:15.920
 Well, that was a thing too with, with me serving in students and taking over online.

00:31:15.920 --> 00:31:17.020
 Like we didn't have anything.

00:31:17.020 --> 00:31:22.200
 I mean, I could look to what Ray was doing, but what, what Ray and, and, and they were,

00:31:22.340 --> 00:31:26.980
 what they were doing for the adult, like that sometimes doesn't translate over to what

00:31:26.980 --> 00:31:28.320
 a student would want.

00:31:28.480 --> 00:31:33.120
 So we were able to, and I had great people on my team that had great ideas.

00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:39.320
 There was, there's a production guy at, at, at, at Christ Fellowship, uh, 18 year old

00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:44.720
 guy, uh, Christian Dalberry that if it wasn't for him, like a lot of our stuff we did, like

00:31:44.720 --> 00:31:50.020
 I wouldn't have ever came up, like I wasn't coming up with it, but I helped, I let him express

00:31:50.020 --> 00:31:55.460
 his ideas and we were able to run with it of cinematic shooting in our prerecorded worship

00:31:55.460 --> 00:31:57.420
 to make a more engaging shot.

00:31:57.420 --> 00:32:03.320
 Um, while we're shooting the message, instead of just having one stagnant camera and maybe

00:32:03.320 --> 00:32:04.880
 another one that's a side camera.

00:32:05.020 --> 00:32:05.300
 Okay.

00:32:05.300 --> 00:32:10.480
 Well, let's put somebody else up on the stage too, with a separate camera that, that speaker

00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:15.140
 can turn to and, and speak it, can talk to whenever it's a really critical part of their

00:32:15.140 --> 00:32:19.280
 message where they really want to get up close into and grab engagement.

00:32:19.280 --> 00:32:21.160
 It was a, using a drone.

00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:24.020
 We, we don't have a jib camera at Christ Fellowship.

00:32:24.320 --> 00:32:25.260
 So what did we do?

00:32:25.480 --> 00:32:30.500
 We brought in a drone and we float, we flew the drone around to get different shots for

00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:35.500
 worship and stuff, just to give you a different, a different view and different, different look,

00:32:35.500 --> 00:32:38.060
 um, and changing stuff up like that.

00:32:38.200 --> 00:32:38.920
 Hosting moments.

00:32:39.020 --> 00:32:40.240
 We didn't do them from the stage.

00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:41.700
 We would go to the balconies.

00:32:41.760 --> 00:32:45.840
 We would go to the, like, I even asked him, I was like, Hey, can we get up in the catwalk?

00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:49.380
 They were like, well, I don't think that'll be a great, that'll be a great shot, but we

00:32:49.380 --> 00:32:50.520
 can maybe try one day.

00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:53.280
 And so, you know, got to try all these different things.

00:32:53.280 --> 00:32:54.880
 I was able to do that in student ministry.

00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:58.920
 And then I think it, I mean, Ray can tell me if I'm wrong, but I think it helped push

00:32:58.920 --> 00:33:03.400
 the church along a little bit because we could be the guinea pig experiments and then he could

00:33:03.400 --> 00:33:07.240
 grab onto whatever worked and could tweak it to how he needed it tweaked.

00:33:07.740 --> 00:33:11.120
 So, and this is something that a lot of people miss that happens in physical church too.

00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:15.380
 Whatever your student ministry looks like is typically what your Sunday morning is going

00:33:15.380 --> 00:33:16.820
 to look like in 10 to 12 years.

00:33:17.480 --> 00:33:21.660
 That's just the way that churches have evolved, like ever since student ministry became a

00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:22.600
 thing in the eighties, right?

00:33:23.120 --> 00:33:27.340
 So student ministry, like typically, like whatever it is that you're seeing, the style of music,

00:33:27.660 --> 00:33:31.300
 the, you know, the type of artists that you use, or even, you know, just kind of what's

00:33:31.300 --> 00:33:31.980
 going on up there.

00:33:32.100 --> 00:33:34.820
 Eventually those folks grow up, they go into their twenties and thirties and what do they

00:33:34.820 --> 00:33:34.920
 do?

00:33:34.980 --> 00:33:37.820
 They plan a church and they change the way that church looks like.

00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:41.960
 And then so in the same way with digital, we're, we were able to do a lot of cool stuff

00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:44.580
 thanks to Brandon's leadership and thanks to the folks that are there like

00:33:44.760 --> 00:33:49.100
 Christian and others that they experimented with everything.

00:33:49.260 --> 00:33:50.860
 I mean, they, they threw everything on the board.

00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:52.560
 They said, all right, well, what if we did worship different?

00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:52.880
 All right.

00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:53.880
 So what if we did this different?

00:33:53.960 --> 00:33:54.840
 What if we did hosting different?

00:33:54.940 --> 00:33:56.080
 What if we did the message different?

00:33:56.620 --> 00:34:00.860
 Because they started to see, they, they, they started to take a look at, we've got to go

00:34:00.860 --> 00:34:04.940
 with what works because the students weren't engaging with something that was just student

00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:07.360
 ministry done like church online for adults.

00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:09.100
 So that wasn't working for them.

00:34:09.320 --> 00:34:13.020
 So they opened up the entire can and said, let's change it all.

00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:14.100
 And they did.

00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:14.800
 They did.

00:34:15.100 --> 00:34:18.020
 I mean, Brandon, you know, you should, you guys should share what you guys did for Thanksgiving

00:34:18.020 --> 00:34:18.640
 last year.

00:34:18.760 --> 00:34:19.700
 So I thought that was pretty unique.

00:34:20.080 --> 00:34:20.480
 Oh yeah.

00:34:20.640 --> 00:34:21.780
 For, for Thanksgiving.

00:34:22.160 --> 00:34:26.820
 Um, we also kind of did it for Christmas, but Thanksgiving, we changed it up and, uh, we,

00:34:26.860 --> 00:34:28.780
 we actually went into a volunteer's house.

00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:30.740
 So we did the whole service there.

00:34:30.840 --> 00:34:32.440
 So we did the living room.

00:34:32.540 --> 00:34:36.700
 We turned it into a studio there and recorded worship there.

00:34:36.780 --> 00:34:41.980
 Um, a broken down version of it, but, um, but we, we recorded worship there.

00:34:42.080 --> 00:34:47.560
 We, we lined up, we had four or five of us, um, of the student directors that were there

00:34:47.560 --> 00:34:53.980
 to just, and we all had like a thing that we would share and then led that into, uh, what

00:34:53.980 --> 00:34:57.460
 we're thankful for and just kind of helping lead students of, Hey, when you're, we, your

00:34:57.460 --> 00:35:01.680
 family, this Thanksgiving, like here's something you can do around the table to help.

00:35:01.800 --> 00:35:02.680
 It's been a tough year.

00:35:02.680 --> 00:35:03.320
 It was COVID.

00:35:03.460 --> 00:35:04.100
 It was COVID.

00:35:04.300 --> 00:35:05.120
 Everything was happening.

00:35:05.340 --> 00:35:06.700
 Like it was a tough year.

00:35:06.820 --> 00:35:07.760
 People had lost people.

00:35:07.860 --> 00:35:08.740
 People had lost jobs.

00:35:08.820 --> 00:35:10.080
 Like their parents had lost jobs.

00:35:10.180 --> 00:35:11.220
 Different things were happening.

00:35:11.700 --> 00:35:16.160
 Um, but it was just a way for us to be able to say, Hey, here's what we all need to be

00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:16.500
 thankful.

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.440
 So here's a good intimate way that we can come together, do that.

00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:23.060
 And then also at your, at your home, you can do this.

00:35:23.060 --> 00:35:28.360
 Like you can sing, you can get together around your dinner table instead of watching the football

00:35:28.360 --> 00:35:32.520
 game or whatever, while you're eating, Hey, go around the table before you start or while

00:35:32.520 --> 00:35:35.580
 you're eating of, Hey, what's one thing that I'm thankful for that God's done this year.

00:35:35.640 --> 00:35:40.160
 And so we kind of incorporated some things like that, even within our messages that whenever

00:35:40.160 --> 00:35:45.300
 the, the, uh, the, uh, the student directors would teach, we started using things, uh, where

00:35:45.300 --> 00:35:46.220
 we would use animations.

00:35:46.960 --> 00:35:52.800
 Uh, we would, we turned one of our student directors into a cartoon and a part in a couple

00:35:52.800 --> 00:35:56.940
 of the things and, uh, where we would use, uh, like a, not a green screen.

00:35:56.940 --> 00:36:01.700
 We were in a studio, but we would project onto the wall and they would be able to use

00:36:01.700 --> 00:36:05.900
 instead of a TV that most, you see most people on a Sunday use, you would use a TV to talk

00:36:05.900 --> 00:36:07.360
 to talk about your points.

00:36:07.360 --> 00:36:11.440
 This was all up on the wall and we would do like little stick figures to represent what

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.460
 wasn't, they were talking about.

00:36:12.560 --> 00:36:17.220
 So you just, we just used a bunch of different things to try to try to engage and try to keep

00:36:17.220 --> 00:36:19.980
 things fresh to where, you know, they didn't get bored.

00:36:20.500 --> 00:36:25.020
 And a lot of that comes with having that you, you have the freedom to, uh, to explore, to

00:36:25.020 --> 00:36:25.660
 experiment.

00:36:26.160 --> 00:36:29.660
 Uh, and what's, what's funny is, you know, just for the audience listening, Christ Fellowship

00:36:29.660 --> 00:36:33.260
 is a very high pressure, high stress environment.

00:36:33.980 --> 00:36:37.220
 Um, and, and even with that, there's still an opportunity.

00:36:37.780 --> 00:36:42.360
 There's, you know, there's always, you're 167 hours away from that Sunday morning, away

00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.780
 from that, that Friday evening broadcast.

00:36:44.780 --> 00:36:48.360
 And, and, but there still is an opportunity to kind of explore there.

00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:52.420
 And what's, what's fascinating, you know, Brandon, you're talking about, you know, an 18 year

00:36:52.420 --> 00:36:55.600
 old, uh, Christian Dalberry, uh, dude.

00:36:55.680 --> 00:37:00.640
 Okay, so I'm 43 years old and, and I told that 18 year old Christian Dalberry, I don't even

00:37:00.640 --> 00:37:02.360
 go to Christ Fellowship Miami anymore.

00:37:03.020 --> 00:37:08.300
 Hey, Christian, anytime you need help on a Friday night for me to work underneath you,

00:37:08.580 --> 00:37:09.600
 I'm happy to, bro.

00:37:10.020 --> 00:37:10.800
 Call me up.

00:37:10.960 --> 00:37:12.440
 Let me, let me run that switcher.

00:37:12.740 --> 00:37:20.020
 Um, and, and I just, I love the fact that the church has given freedom and empowered some

00:37:20.020 --> 00:37:23.000
 of these young kids with these crazy ideas.

00:37:23.180 --> 00:37:25.740
 You know, uh, Garrett Silji is another example of this.

00:37:25.860 --> 00:37:28.480
 Garrett Silji is now production director for the church.

00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:29.300
 He's 20 something.

00:37:29.460 --> 00:37:31.320
 Garrett's actually editing the video right now.

00:37:31.640 --> 00:37:32.140
 Hi Garrett.

00:37:32.520 --> 00:37:37.200
 Garrett is, uh, is one of these 20 something kids that came up through the church and is

00:37:37.200 --> 00:37:42.900
 now leading in big ways because the church gave freedom for him to explore and to do some

00:37:42.900 --> 00:37:43.540
 things different.

00:37:43.640 --> 00:37:47.700
 You know, he was working with Robert Crisler back in the day, another kid who came up through

00:37:47.700 --> 00:37:50.340
 the church and had, had freedom towards that.

00:37:50.340 --> 00:37:55.520
 And so there's, there's all this opportunity to do radical things.

00:37:55.520 --> 00:37:57.120
 And I'm not even just talking digitally.

00:37:57.360 --> 00:38:01.520
 There's different mindsets that are existing within your church.

00:38:01.760 --> 00:38:07.680
 If we look at the, the people of the church and we give them freedom to explore these things

00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:13.240
 as opposed to holding them tight to a system of what we think is excellent.

00:38:13.240 --> 00:38:17.940
 There may be better or learnings to even come out of that.

00:38:18.040 --> 00:38:18.880
 Give it a try.

00:38:19.520 --> 00:38:19.920
 Iterate.

00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.020
 Try again.

00:38:21.320 --> 00:38:24.300
 Learn something from that and make improvements from it.

00:38:24.380 --> 00:38:27.300
 And so that's honestly, I didn't think that was the thing we were going to cover in this

00:38:27.300 --> 00:38:31.420
 podcast, but I love that we took an opportunity to call it out because I think it's really

00:38:31.420 --> 00:38:36.880
 it's one of the strengths of the church, how it's able to develop these people when they're,

00:38:36.880 --> 00:38:42.240
 when they're young, utilize them and give them the authority to take a stab at things

00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:43.280
 and run with it.

00:38:43.840 --> 00:38:44.280
 Absolutely.

00:38:44.540 --> 00:38:46.700
 Give them, give, you know, empower them to do it.

00:38:46.760 --> 00:38:50.900
 But then the next big thing is also give them the freedom to make a mistake here or there.

00:38:51.260 --> 00:38:55.440
 Because, you know, in order to reach those bounds of creativity that you're talking about,

00:38:55.660 --> 00:39:00.440
 you kind of got to pull back a little bit in terms of thinking through, oh man, but what

00:39:00.440 --> 00:39:03.280
 if it doesn't come out as good as I want it to be?

00:39:03.900 --> 00:39:07.020
 That's the only way that you really get to get to try new things.

00:39:07.140 --> 00:39:10.960
 And you get really good to explore some of those boundaries because listen, the Thanksgiving

00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:14.580
 episode that we're talking about, or even some of the other things that we did, did they

00:39:14.580 --> 00:39:17.860
 come out exactly the way that Brandon and the team had envisioned?

00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:22.280
 No, but you got to be a bit of a romantic and go for it anyways.

00:39:23.120 --> 00:39:27.620
 And so the fact that they were willing to take the risk and go for it, and, you know,

00:39:27.760 --> 00:39:33.040
 as somebody who's mentored me before says, hey, so, you know, they're going to shoot for

00:39:33.040 --> 00:39:35.560
 the stars, but if they hit the moon, that's totally fine.

00:39:36.980 --> 00:39:38.060
 What's the worst that could happen?

00:39:38.920 --> 00:39:41.860
 And so we've seen it proven over and over again.

00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:43.580
 So who said the moon thing?

00:39:43.620 --> 00:39:44.720
 Because I say that all the time.

00:39:44.860 --> 00:39:49.760
 Oh, I think I've heard you say it before, but I've heard Professor Massimini, who I've

00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:54.160
 got, who's like an 80-year-old Cuban guy that I've got, like, breathing down my neck with

00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:56.780
 all sorts of anatomy and physiology now.

00:39:57.180 --> 00:40:02.040
 He says, Garmus, if you want an A, you need to go for a 200.

00:40:02.640 --> 00:40:04.020
 That is the only way that you get an A.

00:40:04.140 --> 00:40:05.940
 And so it's working out so far.

00:40:06.180 --> 00:40:08.160
 But yeah, that's Massimini for you.

00:40:08.200 --> 00:40:08.820
 So there you go.

00:40:09.780 --> 00:40:12.240
 Isn't that a clothing line in the 90s, Massa?

00:40:12.800 --> 00:40:16.540
 It wouldn't surprise me if Massimini has his own clothing line, but he still chooses to

00:40:16.540 --> 00:40:17.620
 dress like it's 1999.

00:40:18.020 --> 00:40:19.200
 That wouldn't shock me at all.

00:40:21.340 --> 00:40:24.880
 All right, Brandon, what's the one thing, what's the first thing you changed after Ray

00:40:24.880 --> 00:40:25.180
 left?

00:40:25.400 --> 00:40:27.020
 Ray packs up his box.

00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:29.120
 It's loaded in his trunk.

00:40:29.280 --> 00:40:32.160
 What's the first thing you said, nah, we're getting rid of that?

00:40:32.620 --> 00:40:32.980
 Everything.

00:40:33.380 --> 00:40:33.980
 No, I'm just kidding.

00:40:35.860 --> 00:40:38.360
 No, actually, we've held on to a lot of things.

00:40:38.360 --> 00:40:42.980
 Like, I haven't been able to, I was trying to get my, you know, keep my head above water,

00:40:43.140 --> 00:40:46.560
 you know, because we talked about earlier, like, all that I have to oversee.

00:40:46.760 --> 00:40:49.440
 So it takes a little bit to change some things.

00:40:49.780 --> 00:40:55.920
 Maybe the first thing that we did change, though, and it wasn't anything that Ray didn't do or

00:40:55.920 --> 00:41:03.260
 didn't want to do, but we've upped our Spanish hosting to where we co-host now, before it was

00:41:03.260 --> 00:41:04.320
 a single person.

00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:11.320
 And so for the past month, we've had co-hosts throughout for both English and Spanish to

00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:12.360
 help beef that up.

00:41:12.420 --> 00:41:14.500
 So we've recruited some people there.

00:41:15.280 --> 00:41:22.440
 In the works, if you are subscribed to Christ Fellowship's YouTube page, we are going to give

00:41:22.440 --> 00:41:25.920
 you some relief of seeing 2017 Ray.

00:41:26.720 --> 00:41:30.260
 We're working on getting a new YouTube channel.

00:41:31.340 --> 00:41:34.940
 I guess you'd call it trailer or promo, whichever one you want to call it.

00:41:35.400 --> 00:41:37.260
 So we're updating a few of those things.

00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:39.780
 It's just some small things that needed to be updated.

00:41:39.940 --> 00:41:45.100
 Like, right now, I'm just trying to keep the train on the train tracks, and then we'll work

00:41:45.100 --> 00:41:49.780
 on adding some detour tracks here in the next few months.

00:41:50.140 --> 00:41:50.460
 Awesome.

00:41:50.620 --> 00:41:53.000
 Don't be afraid to kick Ray to the curb whenever possible.

00:41:53.020 --> 00:41:54.960
 And blame me as often as possible, too.

00:41:55.160 --> 00:41:56.900
 It's like, that is one thing Ray told me.

00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:58.840
 He said, if anything happens, just blame Ray.

00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.300
 And I was like, okay, as long as you know it.

00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:05.300
 So there were multiple things I found out.

00:42:05.360 --> 00:42:08.520
 Actually, we were just talking about this the other day with somebody from Christ Fellowship.

00:42:08.720 --> 00:42:10.460
 They were like, I can't believe you did that.

00:42:10.560 --> 00:42:11.340
 I'm like, did what?

00:42:11.680 --> 00:42:14.860
 They told me, and I was like, oh, did I get blamed for that?

00:42:15.440 --> 00:42:17.020
 Was that me?

00:42:17.480 --> 00:42:17.960
 Okay, cool.

00:42:17.980 --> 00:42:18.420
 It can be me.

00:42:18.500 --> 00:42:19.180
 That's fine.

00:42:19.300 --> 00:42:21.300
 But that wasn't how it went down.

00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:22.540
 But that's cool.

00:42:22.660 --> 00:42:23.840
 We can live with it.

00:42:23.840 --> 00:42:26.260
 Yeah, maybe Ray took that advice whenever you left.

00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:28.260
 He was like, oh, well, just blame Jeff.

00:42:28.680 --> 00:42:30.480
 When in doubt, when in doubt, blame Jeff.

00:42:30.620 --> 00:42:31.140
 That's how it works.

00:42:31.220 --> 00:42:36.080
 Now it's blame Ray, and it'll be blame Brandon once I, whenever that day comes.

00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:37.580
 That's exactly right.

00:42:37.700 --> 00:42:43.060
 No, I mean, that's, and I think that's kind of the fun of passing something on between you and I, too.

00:42:43.100 --> 00:42:47.780
 Because I did the same thing with Tucker when I gave, you know, the physical campus, you know, to him over at Coral Gables.

00:42:48.580 --> 00:42:51.240
 It's one of those things where I encouraged him.

00:42:51.280 --> 00:42:54.580
 I said, hey, listen, if nothing else, you can allow me to be the bad guy.

00:42:54.580 --> 00:43:00.140
 So if a new rule comes in, just be like, well, this is Ray's rule, you know, I'm just enacting it.

00:43:00.500 --> 00:43:13.680
 Because being the new guy sometimes in that situation, and especially when, with a role like online pastor or campus pastor, where you're caught in the middle between top level leadership, and people have high expectations underneath you, too, in terms of congregation.

00:43:14.100 --> 00:43:15.280
 That can be a bit of a challenge.

00:43:15.620 --> 00:43:20.180
 And so if I can be a punching bag on the way out, unwittingly, absolutely.

00:43:21.180 --> 00:43:33.380
 I'll tell you that the thing that, I mean, honestly, even just going back, looking historically as my run as a digital pastor, I don't think I really appreciated the amount of influence that was there.

00:43:33.880 --> 00:43:38.220
 I can remember I was out of the position for maybe a year or so.

00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:39.380
 This is pre-COVID.

00:43:39.500 --> 00:43:40.600
 I'm sitting at a Starbucks.

00:43:41.640 --> 00:43:46.840
 It's actually the one here, 136th Street and US 1, if you're here, or 147th Street and US 1.

00:43:47.680 --> 00:43:51.220
 And so I'm sitting inside the Starbucks, and it's packed out.

00:43:52.180 --> 00:43:54.140
 And so I'm on my laptop working.

00:43:54.340 --> 00:43:56.820
 I don't know what I'm doing, but I'm doing something, not really paying attention.

00:43:56.980 --> 00:43:59.720
 There's one table open to me in the entire Starbucks.

00:44:00.300 --> 00:44:02.340
 And in walk, I've told Ray this story, I think.

00:44:02.420 --> 00:44:06.560
 In walks, Omar Greedley and Carlos Cardenas.

00:44:06.900 --> 00:44:11.180
 Okay, so this at the time, it was the broadcast campus pastor.

00:44:11.180 --> 00:44:14.260
 And the executive pastor, both were on the teaching team.

00:44:14.600 --> 00:44:21.880
 These are now the lead pastor of Christ Fellowship Miami and the essentially director of campuses executive, something like that.

00:44:22.380 --> 00:44:26.020
 And so these are two very important people within the church.

00:44:26.120 --> 00:44:30.700
 These are two people that are high-profile positions within the church.

00:44:30.900 --> 00:44:37.760
 And I'm a digital pastor who hasn't worked at the church for a year, just quietly sitting at my desk.

00:44:37.820 --> 00:44:38.620
 They're having a conversation.

00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:39.240
 We said hi.

00:44:39.300 --> 00:44:40.220
 We were social for a minute.

00:44:40.600 --> 00:44:41.520
 I went back to work.

00:44:41.600 --> 00:44:43.940
 And then they went and had whatever conversation they were having.

00:44:44.700 --> 00:44:45.760
 In walks this dude.

00:44:46.040 --> 00:44:47.280
 I don't know who this guy is.

00:44:47.420 --> 00:44:48.540
 I've never seen him before.

00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:53.260
 And he walks past me and he turns around, looks at me for an awkward minute.

00:44:53.680 --> 00:44:55.140
 And I look up from the laptop.

00:44:55.800 --> 00:44:59.740
 I don't know, Ray, you may have gotten this maybe more than me, but I love this.

00:45:00.400 --> 00:45:01.860
 Hey, you're the guy from the TV.

00:45:03.620 --> 00:45:07.000
 And it's like, you mean the computer, the laptop?

00:45:07.520 --> 00:45:07.940
 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:45:07.940 --> 00:45:08.240
 Oh, yeah.

00:45:08.260 --> 00:45:08.840
 Hey, I'm Jeff.

00:45:08.920 --> 00:45:10.160
 I'm the digital pastor.

00:45:10.340 --> 00:45:11.540
 I was the digital pastor of Christ.

00:45:11.580 --> 00:45:19.020
 And this guy comes in and he starts, sees me, recognizes me, has this conversation, starts

00:45:19.020 --> 00:45:24.320
 baring his soul, all this stuff going on, talking about the church, fortunately, in a very positive

00:45:24.320 --> 00:45:25.320
 example.

00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:27.580
 Now, I want you to understand the situation.

00:45:28.460 --> 00:45:30.780
 He recognizes me as the digital pastor.

00:45:31.160 --> 00:45:37.980
 He does not recognize two of the three people on the teaching team, literally one table, over

00:45:37.980 --> 00:45:38.520
 from me.

00:45:38.740 --> 00:45:43.600
 And the tables were so close, they could have jumped into the conversation and dialogued

00:45:43.600 --> 00:45:43.960
 into it.

00:45:44.020 --> 00:45:46.260
 So, like, he has clear purview.

00:45:46.540 --> 00:45:51.500
 And he just recognizes me as being that guy that shows up on the screen every once in a

00:45:51.500 --> 00:45:54.240
 while when I watch a service online.

00:45:55.100 --> 00:46:01.100
 And so, the ability, from a digital perspective, to speak into and to champion these ideas for

00:46:01.100 --> 00:46:02.180
 Christ, it's a beautiful thing.

00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:03.660
 Ray, did you ever have an experience like that?

00:46:03.800 --> 00:46:04.220
 A ton.

00:46:04.340 --> 00:46:09.200
 And especially during COVID, even masked up, I would go to places and people would stop

00:46:09.200 --> 00:46:12.960
 me like, hey, you know, you're Pastor Ray, you're the church online guy, you know, for

00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:13.640
 Christ Fellowship.

00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:19.640
 And that was something that I never kind of anticipated as part of the role, which was

00:46:19.640 --> 00:46:20.180
 kind of weird.

00:46:20.420 --> 00:46:21.040
 You know what I'm saying?

00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:23.780
 It was an odd kind of celebrity.

00:46:23.980 --> 00:46:26.740
 It never got me any free food, which is always the worst kind of celebrity.

00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:35.380
 But it was something that was very humbling in that kind of regard because so much of this

00:46:35.380 --> 00:46:40.380
 feels like it's behind the scenes because you're not standing in front of an audience of people.

00:46:41.240 --> 00:46:47.160
 And yet, with digital, the largest audience is not in the room on Sunday morning.

00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:53.540
 And that, I think, you know, even prior to COVID, as that continued to happen over and

00:46:53.540 --> 00:46:57.200
 over and over and over again, you know, if I was in the Coral Gables area, I would get

00:46:57.200 --> 00:46:59.380
 stopped by like, I don't know, one or two people a month.

00:46:59.660 --> 00:47:03.780
 As a church online guy, I would get stopped by like two or three people a week, you know,

00:47:03.820 --> 00:47:05.320
 in terms of like how that would happen.

00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:13.220
 And so it just gives you an idea of a lot of people are watching whether or not you consider

00:47:13.220 --> 00:47:14.380
 them to be part of Christ Fellowship.

00:47:14.460 --> 00:47:17.580
 They consider themselves to be part of Christ Fellowship because they're engaged online.

00:47:18.380 --> 00:47:22.880
 And because of that, as the church online pastor, you become their campus pastor.

00:47:23.600 --> 00:47:26.160
 Yeah, we've even seen it within our ministries.

00:47:26.540 --> 00:47:31.840
 So like within like our CF kids, like they do an incredible job with their online.

00:47:32.180 --> 00:47:35.460
 It's a lot, but they do an incredible job with it.

00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:41.120
 And just the kids at a local campus, if they go, the people that are on that online, if

00:47:41.120 --> 00:47:46.680
 they go visit a local campus or they're part of a local campus, the kids come in and they're

00:47:46.680 --> 00:47:47.540
 like, oh, wow.

00:47:47.820 --> 00:47:54.560
 They're like, oh, it's so and so from the TV, from like you said, from YouTube, you're,

00:47:54.560 --> 00:47:59.220
 you know, and they get, you know, they get excited and it's like they meet, they've met

00:47:59.220 --> 00:48:00.700
 somebody in and stuff.

00:48:00.760 --> 00:48:02.740
 But we, you get that here and there.

00:48:02.960 --> 00:48:05.420
 I haven't got it as much yet because, you know.

00:48:05.880 --> 00:48:07.060
 Remix in, remix in.

00:48:07.200 --> 00:48:08.200
 It'll happen for you.

00:48:08.300 --> 00:48:09.040
 It'll happen for you.

00:48:09.200 --> 00:48:10.400
 It'll be okay if it doesn't.

00:48:10.480 --> 00:48:14.860
 If you get free coffee, you will have surpassed Jeff and I in every area of life.

00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:16.040
 All it takes is one free coffee.

00:48:16.160 --> 00:48:16.540
 That's it.

00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:17.720
 Well, there it is.

00:48:17.840 --> 00:48:20.940
 So, so podcast community, just let's make it happen.

00:48:21.020 --> 00:48:24.680
 If you're in Miami, just let me know if you see me walking around.

00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:26.460
 Let's one up Jeff and Ray.

00:48:26.560 --> 00:48:27.680
 Let's put that out there.

00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:28.380
 Do it.

00:48:28.540 --> 00:48:30.140
 Give my man a shot real quick.

00:48:30.240 --> 00:48:30.560
 Do it.

00:48:31.200 --> 00:48:31.540
 Awesome.

00:48:31.780 --> 00:48:34.780
 And maybe set the standard a little higher than free coffee.

00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:36.360
 But hey, it doesn't hurt to start there.

00:48:36.360 --> 00:48:37.120
 It's a start.

00:48:37.280 --> 00:48:38.180
 It's a start, you know.

00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:38.920
 That's true.

00:48:39.080 --> 00:48:40.000
 I'll give it to you.

00:48:40.580 --> 00:48:42.440
 What's your biggest challenge right now, Brandon?

00:48:42.800 --> 00:48:44.680
 You know, you're three weeks in, you're figuring this out.

00:48:44.820 --> 00:48:47.360
 What's the hill you're trying to climb?

00:48:47.700 --> 00:48:48.980
 The hill I'm trying to climb.

00:48:49.980 --> 00:49:03.980
 I think right now would be building back up our chat hosts and then also figuring out our small group philosophy of how we're going to do that.

00:49:03.980 --> 00:49:07.700
 But with online, as a hybrid church, how we're going to do that.

00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:11.480
 With chat hosts, I think Ray may have spoke about it before.

00:49:11.740 --> 00:49:23.840
 One of the, we think that one of the biggest mistakes we made was during COVID was having our staff as chat hosts because we lost people that were volunteering to be chat hosts.

00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:27.020
 Because it's like, oh, well, my campus pastor's on here saying stuff.

00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:28.860
 What am I going to say that they can't say?

00:49:28.940 --> 00:49:32.100
 Like that they're going to, you know, where you put the pedestal on somebody.

00:49:32.680 --> 00:49:35.340
 And so it's like you just, you start losing.

00:49:35.500 --> 00:49:37.660
 So now it's everybody's back physical.

00:49:38.120 --> 00:49:41.060
 And now it's like, oh, well, okay.

00:49:41.140 --> 00:49:42.980
 Now we see what's left.

00:49:43.240 --> 00:49:47.260
 And it's like it wasn't as gleaming and great as what we thought.

00:49:47.620 --> 00:49:49.220
 And so it's just building that up.

00:49:49.220 --> 00:49:59.820
 And then also with our Spanish community as well, like helping, like figuring out the bandwidth between the people that run that, help run our Spanish and global.

00:50:00.420 --> 00:50:08.180
 And within our online, us finding the bandwidth because they're leading a lot of different hats, wearing a lot of different hats and doing a lot of different things too.

00:50:08.680 --> 00:50:13.700
 And then with online with me, and I'm not bilingual, like English is my language.

00:50:13.740 --> 00:50:17.500
 I took Spanish for two years in high school, but forgot a lot of it.

00:50:18.060 --> 00:50:29.720
 So it's, so it's finding the bandwidth between both of our stuff to help build that chat hosting, that chat hosting community as well to help build that, to build that.

00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:32.360
 And then our small group philosophy, what do we want to do?

00:50:32.840 --> 00:50:41.280
 Is it, if anybody fills out something online, that it comes to the online team and we find small groups from there?

00:50:41.340 --> 00:50:51.340
 Or is it more of a, if they, if we get them and they live in the Miami area, we find the closest campus that they live to.

00:50:51.340 --> 00:51:07.660
 And since we're a hybrid church and even our physical campuses have on, have Zoom, have still have Zoom small groups, do we get them plugged in there or help push them towards a physical, if they want to, a physical small group?

00:51:08.020 --> 00:51:13.060
 Or, and then if not, then, okay, well, you can join in on, on our online Zoom.

00:51:13.180 --> 00:51:25.740
 So I think those are the two big challenges right now that are probably going to be my big focuses for the, focus for the, for the next six months, the end of the year to just try to put some, put some benchmarks out there to try to grow that.

00:51:25.740 --> 00:51:27.880
 Because, and it's all engagement focus.

00:51:28.300 --> 00:51:31.400
 Like, like I said, like the view stuff, like it's going to come and go.

00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:32.480
 It's a roller coaster.

00:51:32.660 --> 00:51:37.240
 That's probably, that's another thing, a hard thing that I've had to deal with is, is jumping in.

00:51:37.340 --> 00:51:45.320
 I tried to tell myself not to, Ray told me not to, but it's, you get caught on that view, that, that viewership.

00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:47.100
 And it's a, it's like a roller coaster.

00:51:47.560 --> 00:51:52.360
 One week, for some reason, a keyword hits and it skyrockets like to the moon.

00:51:52.360 --> 00:51:55.840
 And the next week, something doesn't hit and it just drops.

00:51:56.300 --> 00:52:08.220
 And so it's, you know, Facebook decides it wants to do its thing and, or Instagram wants to do its thing or chop for, for some reason, the server overloads or something, you know, you have your stuff.

00:52:08.220 --> 00:52:11.600
 And so that's, that's been a struggle, just a personal struggle.

00:52:11.600 --> 00:52:21.420
 Well, it's not a, of not getting locked in on, on numbers and letting that dictate how I feel about what we're doing as a church and what I'm doing as a, as a, a director.

00:52:21.520 --> 00:52:31.480
 Well, I mean, I can give you horror stories of, of people, myself included, who gained their identity based off of that butts in seats, digital or physical number.

00:52:31.780 --> 00:52:39.940
 And, and how that messes with the psyche and, and loses, you know, God's given you X number of people to disciple, disciple them.

00:52:40.740 --> 00:52:47.760
 Um, you know, celebrate those steps of, of taking that person in isolation and moving them closer towards the disciple.

00:52:47.960 --> 00:52:52.340
 Don't, don't freak out because that number is bigger or smaller than what God's brought you.

00:52:52.720 --> 00:52:58.980
 Run the process, keep working through, uh, what you have and, and, and God will give more in his time.

00:52:58.980 --> 00:53:02.600
 So love that and love the fact that you're three weeks in and have that wisdom.

00:53:03.100 --> 00:53:10.800
 Um, I, I may have been several years in before I had that wisdom and I probably had more hair and, and darker goatee.

00:53:11.260 --> 00:53:16.380
 Um, well, it's probably because I saw a big downswing after Ray left, we had a pretty big downswing.

00:53:16.480 --> 00:53:18.820
 So I had to come to grips really quickly with that.

00:53:19.060 --> 00:53:20.420
 This is the God's honest truth, right?

00:53:20.440 --> 00:53:25.600
 Like coming out of, uh, COVID now that we're like almost completely fully reopened at CF.

00:53:26.160 --> 00:53:33.540
 And, and I kept telling Brandon, you know, as, as the church continues to open up more and more to continue to watch that number.

00:53:33.800 --> 00:53:55.720
 But then to look at more of the connection card number, that was going to be the big one to look at how many connections were coming in and to champion that because either way, even when we were like hitting our highest of highs last year, the thing that I kept bringing to leadership was, Hey, I know that you're celebrating this, but the reality is, is that what you really should be celebrating is this.

00:53:55.820 --> 00:53:57.860
 You should be celebrating the number of connections.

00:53:57.860 --> 00:54:01.000
 Like the number of views is cool, but look at the number of connections.

00:54:01.000 --> 00:54:04.300
 It's almost like, and this is a terrible biblical illusion, but work with me here, folks.

00:54:04.360 --> 00:54:04.560
 Right?

00:54:05.000 --> 00:54:10.880
 So the disciples come back to Jesus and they're all like excited because they casted out demons and they've healed the sick and they've done this stuff.

00:54:10.940 --> 00:54:12.420
 And Jesus says, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's great.

00:54:12.460 --> 00:54:16.840
 But greater than that, man, why don't you thank God the fact that your name is written in the book of life, you know?

00:54:17.120 --> 00:54:19.860
 So like he's trying to give them perspective, you know?

00:54:19.860 --> 00:54:26.440
 And in the same way, I think we all need a dose of perspective that if people are taking next steps, that always matters more.

00:54:26.560 --> 00:54:36.080
 That supersedes even who's, who's putting a button to share it or who's, you know, putting a view on the screen is who's taking a next step in terms of moving forward in the relationship with Jesus.

00:54:36.420 --> 00:54:36.900
 That's a big one.

00:54:37.200 --> 00:54:37.720
 That's beautiful.

00:54:37.960 --> 00:54:42.940
 You know, John, John six, one of the feeding of the thousands, Jesus had a mass followers.

00:54:43.300 --> 00:54:44.100
 He fed them.

00:54:44.400 --> 00:54:45.340
 He was doing signs of wonders.

00:54:45.500 --> 00:54:46.720
 He literally fed them dinner.

00:54:47.460 --> 00:54:51.040
 The next morning, they, people go to him because they're hungry for breakfast.

00:54:51.320 --> 00:54:52.640
 He doesn't give them breakfast.

00:54:52.780 --> 00:54:54.180
 He actually chases them away.

00:54:54.460 --> 00:54:56.800
 He starts saying, eat my flesh, drink my blood.

00:54:56.940 --> 00:55:04.740
 I believe it says in Jesus, in John 6, 66, it says something to the extent of, and they were offended and some left.

00:55:04.900 --> 00:55:09.320
 Like even some disciples at that point walked, walked away from Christ.

00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:13.360
 And so, I mean, even crap, even Jesus himself wasn't about the reach.

00:55:13.700 --> 00:55:21.080
 He used the reach number to engage people towards creating disciples, even if it meant chasing away some of those people that were the hanger-ons.

00:55:21.440 --> 00:55:21.560
 Yeah.

00:55:21.620 --> 00:55:24.240
 I lovingly call that the zombie message, the zombie sermon.

00:55:25.080 --> 00:55:28.200
 Eat my flesh, drink my blood, thin the crowd real quick.

00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.420
 Yeah.

00:55:28.760 --> 00:55:30.080
 The zombie message.

00:55:30.920 --> 00:55:32.720
 We need to do a podcast on that.

00:55:32.900 --> 00:55:34.280
 Like there may be something there.

00:55:34.420 --> 00:55:36.660
 Let's maybe, maybe that's too crazy for, for this.

00:55:37.280 --> 00:55:38.280
 That's, that's awesome.

00:55:38.400 --> 00:55:50.160
 Hey, Brandon, just as, as we're wrapping up here, any, any, what advice would you give to somebody who, you know, okay, look, you're, you're a month into the role.

00:55:50.540 --> 00:55:52.620
 We're heading back to the building.

00:55:53.320 --> 00:55:59.720
 And so there's a lot of energy, churches across America to head back to that, to, to the building.

00:56:00.000 --> 00:56:04.740
 Some churches are forgetting some of those lessons that we've learned in this COVID season.

00:56:05.300 --> 00:56:08.760
 Our, the, the golden age of church was February, 2020.

00:56:09.200 --> 00:56:14.480
 And that's exactly what we're going back to, to, to live through that, that aura again.

00:56:14.700 --> 00:56:16.040
 So you're a digital church.

00:56:16.160 --> 00:56:18.260
 You're, you're, I mean, you're a digital church pastor.

00:56:18.340 --> 00:56:21.660
 You're literally walking that line right now.

00:56:22.380 --> 00:56:26.780
 What advice would you give to somebody out there who's new in the role and maybe experiencing this like you are?

00:56:27.120 --> 00:56:27.320
 Yeah.

00:56:27.840 --> 00:56:28.240
 Wow.

00:56:29.240 --> 00:56:30.460
 That one's a tough one.

00:56:30.520 --> 00:56:30.780
 I don't know.

00:56:31.320 --> 00:56:32.460
 Advice that I would give.

00:56:34.540 --> 00:56:44.140
 I mean, hopefully you can be honest with the people above you, like to, to share your struggles with, like if, if in a, in a respectful way, you know.

00:56:44.140 --> 00:56:52.500
 So if we're trying to go back to things that, that we're working in, in pre-COVID and, but we know that this isn't like, it's going to zap the mission.

00:56:52.500 --> 00:56:57.140
 Like if it's going to kill the mission of what we're doing online, like hopefully you're, you have enough.

00:56:57.920 --> 00:57:07.240
 Hopefully your leadership is open enough to where you can go and, and, and talk about those things and not just hold on to them and just get bitter about it and be like, well, these people don't know what they're talking about.

00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:11.800
 They keep trying to go back when you never let them know, like, Hey, let's not go that route.

00:57:12.600 --> 00:57:19.860
 Um, I mean, other than that, I mean, guess from the three weeks, I mean, I guess it has to be like, don't chase those numbers.

00:57:20.760 --> 00:57:22.280
 Like don't chase them.

00:57:22.340 --> 00:57:26.680
 Like they're going to come, like put out content, put your content out there.

00:57:27.060 --> 00:57:49.100
 Um, get it, get it out there in front of people, uh, but try to disciple people, uh, whether you're a large church, small church, um, whatever it, whatever it is, like whoever's what try to disciple them, try to, try to bring them along, try to bring them along with you, um, and, and help them grow closer to Jesus, um, is the ultimate goal.

00:57:49.100 --> 00:57:50.540
 Don't go chasing those numbers.

00:57:50.540 --> 00:57:52.740
 Cause like I said, they're going to come, they're going to go.

00:57:53.120 --> 00:57:54.460
 It's just different things.

00:57:54.840 --> 00:58:04.080
 Um, and then, uh, don't be afraid to, to fail, which is a tough thing for, for me sometimes.

00:58:04.080 --> 00:58:15.920
 Cause I am a, I do have like a kind of a perfectionist thought process in my mind of where I get a, and I also, and this is probably, this is not good in the role that I'm in, but I'm, I'm working through it.

00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:27.220
 Um, I feel way more comfortable about something that I've done before and I've seen done before to implement it, where if it's something I have to create new, I get a lot more uncomfortable.

00:58:27.220 --> 00:58:30.840
 And so it's okay to be uncomfortable and it's okay to try to do those things.

00:58:30.920 --> 00:58:35.180
 You don't always have to go back to, I know this is tried and true.

00:58:35.380 --> 00:58:39.680
 It may be tried and true, but then when you try it again, it ain't tried and true no more.

00:58:39.820 --> 00:58:44.360
 And so don't be afraid to, to try new things, uh, to do that as well.

00:58:44.360 --> 00:58:49.980
 And, um, and yeah, don't be afraid to ask people like get, like talk to people.

00:58:49.980 --> 00:58:56.020
 Like luckily I have you two guys that are, that are phone calls away, uh, texts away.

00:58:56.020 --> 00:58:59.920
 If I have questions, um, I've also networked with other people.

00:59:00.120 --> 00:59:12.580
 Um, so jump in those Facebook groups that you see, um, jump in, you know, if you see a social media, a church that that's, that's doing things that you like and you see them doing, reach out to them.

00:59:12.580 --> 00:59:18.640
 Try to, try to reach out to who their online, uh, director is or something and just have a conversation.

00:59:18.640 --> 00:59:26.240
 Most people that I've talked to, no matter how big, no matter how small, like they can make, they'll make time to speak to you and help you out.

00:59:26.980 --> 00:59:33.160
 Um, so don't be afraid to ask questions and think you, you've got to, you've got to go across it by yourself.

00:59:33.160 --> 00:59:35.260
 Like there's other people to help you get through it.

00:59:35.600 --> 00:59:46.500
 The one thing that I love about the digital community, digital ministry, online pastors, digital pastors, digital interest planners, like it is, it's a, it's a very tight and supportive community.

00:59:46.500 --> 00:59:53.500
 Like, and I was, I was telling somebody at this at lunch today, we were all crazy pre COVID COVID just validated everything that we've said.

00:59:53.840 --> 00:59:57.620
 And so pre COVID, we were thinking this way when the rest of the world thought we were nuts.

00:59:57.880 --> 01:00:08.220
 And so the support that we have for one another, uh, and the ability to help others who have questions, like there's just high level because we all remember the days when it was like, you're an idiot.

01:00:08.220 --> 01:00:09.700
 Why do you think this way?

01:00:10.200 --> 01:00:12.460
 Uh, and, and now thank you very much COVID.

01:00:12.980 --> 01:00:13.340
 Okay.

01:00:13.340 --> 01:00:17.860
 Maybe you are an idiot, but at least we can see the purpose behind why you were thinking the way that you did.

01:00:17.940 --> 01:00:19.300
 There's some perks with you being crazy.

01:00:19.300 --> 01:00:23.180
 20, 20 years worth of perks has, has a decent payoff.

01:00:23.340 --> 01:00:24.000
 Let's just say that.

01:00:24.780 --> 01:00:25.220
 Awesome.

01:00:25.820 --> 01:00:27.880
 Oh, Hey, this has been a, this has been a great time, Brandon.

01:00:28.000 --> 01:00:34.300
 Excited about you in the new role and where you're heading out off to Ray, you know, as we're landing the plane here in any, uh, any closing thoughts.

01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:50.000
 Yeah. Um, just, you guys can see in what a tremendous person that, that God provided in Brandon, um, transition well, whenever you leave a role, transition well, um, leave something behind for somebody to pick up and keep running with.

01:00:50.320 --> 01:00:57.020
 Uh, I used to think that ministry was a sprint and then the older I got, I thought it was a marathon and now I realized it's a relay race.

01:00:57.780 --> 01:01:05.780
 So my, my job is not, uh, necessarily to do well for me, my job is to do well with something and then to give it to somebody who can do better.

01:01:06.200 --> 01:01:08.620
 And I believe that, that God provided that person.

01:01:08.740 --> 01:01:10.140
 I believe he's going to go far with this.

01:01:10.140 --> 01:01:14.080
 And then one day he's going to do the same and hand it off to somebody else because we're all temporary.

01:01:14.720 --> 01:01:20.180
 But, you know, if you're building digital around yourself, then really you're not serving the kingdom.

01:01:20.180 --> 01:01:27.300
 You're serving you and nothing can be a life less, less spent than building something around yourself.

01:01:27.300 --> 01:01:28.960
 As opposed to thinking kingdom minded.

01:01:29.140 --> 01:01:34.540
 And so, you know, Brandon, uh, man, thank you for grabbing the baton and running with it because you're going to run far.

01:01:34.820 --> 01:01:35.500
 There we go.

01:01:35.540 --> 01:01:36.480
 We're going to add that in.

01:01:36.540 --> 01:01:41.760
 I'm telling you guys, I'm, I'm, Garrett, just send that, just send the whole audio file over here.

01:01:41.880 --> 01:01:46.880
 I'll, I'll, I'll chop it up myself and, uh, we'll just have, uh, Jeff and Ray.

01:01:46.880 --> 01:01:50.260
 I'm going to put it in my back pocket and play it on my phone as I walk down the street.

01:01:50.340 --> 01:01:50.940
 It's going to be great.

01:01:51.080 --> 01:01:52.040
 I'm going to be the happiest guy.

01:01:52.360 --> 01:01:57.060
 Well, and to be fair, and this is the other thing, you know, like I, I grabbed the baton from Jeff and Jeff set up

01:01:57.060 --> 01:02:01.840
 something that was great and stable ahead of my time and was way ahead of the time of others, you know?

01:02:02.260 --> 01:02:07.400
 And so, you know, a lot of people by God's grace came to Christ fellowship for help.

01:02:07.400 --> 01:02:19.540
 And we were able to provide a lot of answers because of the stability that we had over a sustained amount of time, you know, God willing, we'll never, I hope in our lifetime, we don't go through a pandemic ever again.

01:02:19.540 --> 01:02:28.820
 But I don't know that there's not going to be another thing that's going to cause physical church to have to stop meeting for a Sunday, for two Sundays, for three Sundays, for a year.

01:02:28.960 --> 01:02:29.500
 I don't know.

01:02:30.100 --> 01:02:38.600
 And so in light of that, just make sure that you have people that you can trust at the top who have things prepared in such a way that just in case they had to hand it off, it's good to go.

01:02:38.740 --> 01:02:41.700
 Well, and part of it is, well, let's, let's be honest.

01:02:41.800 --> 01:02:51.880
 We've, we've all seen people drop the, in church staff environments, drop the baton, you know, at that last 50 feet where they lived a great life.

01:02:51.880 --> 01:02:58.480
 And then they, things got personal, things got, you know, out of context or, or, or just unfortunate.

01:02:58.480 --> 01:03:02.320
 And it was that rough, that rough transition, that rough handoff.

01:03:02.620 --> 01:03:06.860
 You know, and I've said the quote here before, not Bible in this situation, Ronald Reagan.

01:03:07.640 --> 01:03:11.660
 There's no limit to the amount of good one can do as long as he doesn't care who gets credit.

01:03:12.180 --> 01:03:18.740
 And, you know, and so in this situation, handing it off to the next guy and, and, and letting it run good.

01:03:18.920 --> 01:03:26.080
 You know, it's funny, even I was joking earlier on the show, taking the hit for the thing that was said about the thing that had absolutely nothing to do it with.

01:03:26.740 --> 01:03:30.920
 So that the other person could keep the credibility to do the thing that he eventually needed to do.

01:03:31.760 --> 01:03:32.120
 Cool.

01:03:32.320 --> 01:03:33.500
 All, all, all about it.

01:03:33.560 --> 01:03:39.680
 I don't, I don't have anything to gain or lose in that situation, but hopefully the kingdom has something to gain in that situation.

01:03:39.980 --> 01:03:46.720
 And hopefully the person who said the thing, throwing me under the bus knows, hey, you play that card once, really can't play that card twice.

01:03:46.860 --> 01:03:47.660
 That's you, Keith.

01:03:47.900 --> 01:03:48.300
 That's you.

01:03:48.920 --> 01:03:49.560
 Awesome.

01:03:51.900 --> 01:03:52.240
 Love it.

01:03:52.580 --> 01:03:54.140
 Hey, so we're going to, we're going to land the plane.

01:03:54.260 --> 01:03:55.120
 This has been awesome.

01:03:55.260 --> 01:03:55.540
 Great.

01:03:55.760 --> 01:04:07.060
 And, and so Brandon, looking forward to seeing things continue to, to grow and expand at Christ Fellowship as you guys are taking online, taking digital, global through the campuses and different things there.

01:04:07.380 --> 01:04:09.480
 Love the approach and looking forward to it.

01:04:09.560 --> 01:04:12.160
 Ray, of course, always great to hang out with you.

01:04:12.300 --> 01:04:15.520
 But for Brandon, for Ray, this is Jeff at the church, digital and stated church planning.

01:04:15.640 --> 01:04:17.780
 Thanks for joining us here at this show.

01:04:17.780 --> 01:04:19.580
 We'll have, we'll see you next time at the pod.

01:04:19.720 --> 01:04:20.240
 Y'all have a good day.