WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.800 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:04.440 --> 00:00:08.540 Through this podcast, learn about how God is using technology and innovation 00:00:08.540 --> 00:00:11.580 in digital and digital environments around the world. 00:00:12.100 --> 00:00:16.000 Our goal? To help churches like yours learn to be the church digitally. 00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:21.600 Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple-making 00:00:21.600 --> 00:00:23.620 that will revolutionize your church. 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.660 And now, your host, here's Jeff Reed. 00:00:27.040 --> 00:00:30.160 Hey, we've got a great conversation set up with you. 00:00:30.300 --> 00:00:34.760 By the way, remember, here with Season 5, we're highlighting the crazies, the innovators, 00:00:34.880 --> 00:00:38.200 the people who are thinking outside of the box. 00:00:38.500 --> 00:00:43.720 And it's a pleasure for me, in this conversation, to connect you, to introduce you, 00:00:43.860 --> 00:00:48.820 to welcome back a good friend of mine, a great friend of mine, 00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:53.200 who, honestly, I just met for the first time a couple weeks ago. 00:00:53.200 --> 00:01:01.240 Tom Pounder is a digital pastor, student pastor, a pastor extraordinaire at a New Life Church 00:01:01.240 --> 00:01:03.040 in the Washington, D.C. area. 00:01:03.480 --> 00:01:07.320 And one of Exponential's regional conferences, the one in Washington, D.C., obviously, 00:01:07.680 --> 00:01:09.260 was held at New Life Church. 00:01:09.500 --> 00:01:17.180 And even though I have known Tom Pounder and consider him among my friends for the past years, 00:01:17.180 --> 00:01:21.040 I think the first time I probably met him was 2017, maybe 2018. 00:01:21.340 --> 00:01:22.640 I've known the guy for a while. 00:01:23.420 --> 00:01:28.080 We have developed a great relationship together, and it's all been digital. 00:01:28.800 --> 00:01:31.460 And so we even joke about it and talk about it here in the show. 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:38.220 But it's important to notice that there was a friendship that was developed in digital space 00:01:38.220 --> 00:01:46.120 that went for at least three years before we were actually able to connect together at the physical level. 00:01:46.120 --> 00:01:53.480 And it is awesome for me to bring in Tom Pounder into a conversation where we're highlighting people 00:01:53.480 --> 00:01:58.360 who are thinking outside the box, people who are innovators in this digital church space, 00:01:58.360 --> 00:02:06.560 if only to start to talk about what Tom is thinking in context of a digital missionary. 00:02:06.740 --> 00:02:08.740 Now, what does a digital missionary mean? 00:02:08.820 --> 00:02:09.900 What does that look like? 00:02:10.220 --> 00:02:12.780 How do we equip people and train people? 00:02:13.080 --> 00:02:15.300 Is the digital really a mission field? 00:02:15.380 --> 00:02:19.920 And what are some inerrant challenges maybe that come up looking at digital as such? 00:02:19.960 --> 00:02:22.980 Yeah, this is really what we start to scratch the surface on. 00:02:22.980 --> 00:02:28.280 And there is so much more conversation that needs to be had as we will continue in later episodes 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.680 to explore this idea of a digital missionary. 00:02:31.880 --> 00:02:34.100 So here's what I'm doing for the conversation. 00:02:34.280 --> 00:02:36.300 I'm bringing in Tom Pounder. 00:02:36.520 --> 00:02:39.220 Like I said, digital pastor, New Life Christian Church. 00:02:39.320 --> 00:02:43.620 And by the way, phenomenal resources through YM Sidekick, through Digital Bootcamp. 00:02:44.000 --> 00:02:47.460 My gosh, if you're not tracking with Tom Pounder, you really need to. 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:49.500 We're also bringing into the conversation myself. 00:02:49.500 --> 00:02:52.840 Hey, Jeff with the Church Digital and with Stadia Church Planning. 00:02:52.980 --> 00:02:57.440 And a conversation that I'm simply calling here, Releasing Digital Missionaries. 00:02:57.760 --> 00:02:59.060 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:03.200 Man, I'm looking forward to talking about a digital missionary. 00:03:03.380 --> 00:03:07.420 And I've seen, Tom, you know, you and I have had a conversation on this years ago, 00:03:07.660 --> 00:03:10.060 talking about maybe what a digital missionary can be. 00:03:10.180 --> 00:03:17.760 And I've seen you in recent months really start to hone back in on that language of a digital missionary. 00:03:17.840 --> 00:03:22.300 And so I wanted to bring you back on the podcast here and just, you know, have a conversation. 00:03:22.460 --> 00:03:25.080 What is, what is, what's a digital missionary? 00:03:25.240 --> 00:03:25.720 What does it look? 00:03:25.800 --> 00:03:29.040 How can we, the church, how can we start to explore in this space? 00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:32.080 So, man, thanks for coming back and jumping on the show. 00:03:32.380 --> 00:03:34.780 Hey, again, as always, thanks for having me. 00:03:35.540 --> 00:03:36.540 I'm very appreciative. 00:03:36.640 --> 00:03:37.720 And you've been very kind. 00:03:37.720 --> 00:03:41.300 And so, and I value our friendship as well. 00:03:41.440 --> 00:03:43.160 So this, I'm really excited about this. 00:03:43.380 --> 00:03:44.600 I'm going to get all teary-eyed. 00:03:44.740 --> 00:03:45.580 That's, that was beautiful. 00:03:46.300 --> 00:03:47.620 So let's, let's talk. 00:03:47.720 --> 00:03:53.120 You know, we, I've used the phrase here a couple times, digital missionary, as I literally 00:03:53.120 --> 00:03:57.460 just get an email from Tom Pounder in, while I'm doing this, it just beeped. 00:03:57.660 --> 00:04:00.020 Your newsletter on Friday just hit my inbox. 00:04:00.300 --> 00:04:00.900 Well done. 00:04:01.480 --> 00:04:02.180 Talk to me. 00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:03.760 What, what is a digital missionary? 00:04:04.000 --> 00:04:07.040 What, when you use this phrase, like what, what does that mean? 00:04:07.100 --> 00:04:08.280 What, what are you envisioning? 00:04:08.340 --> 00:04:08.480 Yeah. 00:04:08.560 --> 00:04:12.780 So, I mean, again, I think, I mean, it's, it's very simple, but I think we don't ever 00:04:12.780 --> 00:04:15.300 look at digital as an, as a missionary opportunity. 00:04:15.300 --> 00:04:20.580 I mean, you think back to it, Matthew 28, 19 and 20, Jesus says, go and make disciples of 00:04:20.580 --> 00:04:21.140 all nations. 00:04:21.500 --> 00:04:27.620 And for the longest time, we were literally physically going to make disciples of all nations, 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:29.980 going to different countries and all over the world. 00:04:29.980 --> 00:04:35.300 We have to spend months of preparation, months of language understanding and all that kind 00:04:35.300 --> 00:04:35.640 of stuff. 00:04:35.640 --> 00:04:42.180 But now with the development of the smartphone, we have that opportunity where at any moment 00:04:42.180 --> 00:04:46.760 in time, I can be talking to someone right next to me, or I can be talking to someone 00:04:46.760 --> 00:04:49.000 clear across the world with me. 00:04:49.260 --> 00:04:54.720 And again, I think when we think about digital, when we think about social media, we often 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:55.880 think about the fun stuff. 00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:59.780 And of course there's controversies that happen on social media and everything like that as 00:04:59.780 --> 00:04:59.980 well. 00:05:00.520 --> 00:05:05.620 But I've really, over the past few years, and in particular since COVID, just viewed 00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:07.540 it as a missionary opportunity. 00:05:07.540 --> 00:05:08.980 People are on their phone. 00:05:08.980 --> 00:05:14.240 You know, I used to work with Young Life and Jim Rayburn, the founder of Young Life, had 00:05:14.240 --> 00:05:16.160 this phrase, go where they are. 00:05:16.320 --> 00:05:19.100 You know, you want to meet teenagers, well, go where they are. 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:25.320 And so what I, my philosophy is, I want to meet people and I want to meet people online 00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:26.160 and tell them about Jesus. 00:05:26.320 --> 00:05:29.680 So I go on my phone and I get on Twitter. 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:36.000 I love Twitter and I'm on Twitter all the time, but you can go on Facebook, you can go 00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:41.300 on Instagram, you can go on TikTok and become a digital missionary and share about Jesus in 00:05:41.300 --> 00:05:42.740 a lot of creative ways. 00:05:43.240 --> 00:05:43.740 That's beautiful. 00:05:43.740 --> 00:05:50.100 Are you, you know, and you, you've, you've had a mix in your career of, of digital pastor, 00:05:50.100 --> 00:05:54.780 of student pastor and, and, and going back and, and forth in that. 00:05:54.900 --> 00:05:56.820 Have you, do you have examples? 00:05:56.980 --> 00:06:02.600 Have you, have you seen where people, stories maybe where people are buying into this, this 00:06:02.600 --> 00:06:03.880 digital missionary idea? 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:09.540 Uh, stories of people responding to what I'm doing or people who are being trained up to 00:06:09.540 --> 00:06:09.940 do it. 00:06:10.480 --> 00:06:11.640 Maybe both either or. 00:06:11.920 --> 00:06:16.740 Well, I know again, you know him very well and I just know him a little bit, but Tyler 00:06:16.740 --> 00:06:23.140 Sanson is really honed in on this digital missionary stuff, uh, and really using it as opportunities 00:06:23.140 --> 00:06:27.080 to use his music ability, his singing ability to share about Jesus. 00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:33.640 But he's training people, um, all the time and reaching people all over the world for me. 00:06:33.840 --> 00:06:40.060 Yeah, I, I've had different interactions where, so when I go on, on social media in particular, 00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:45.680 when I go, um, on Twitter, I'm looking to do two things. 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:47.900 I'm one, I'm looking to encourage fellow ministers. 00:06:48.280 --> 00:06:52.160 Um, and I, so I want to encourage them and I create content to encourage them, but then 00:06:52.160 --> 00:06:53.680 I want to encourage other people. 00:06:54.000 --> 00:06:56.960 Um, and I do that by sharing my life. 00:06:56.960 --> 00:07:03.480 Um, you know, I firmly believe again, the church can be a great on social media, but my ability 00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:08.640 to reach people is far greater than my church's ability to reach people on social media. 00:07:08.820 --> 00:07:12.940 People respond to people more than they respond to brands or churches. 00:07:13.320 --> 00:07:15.840 They want to see it really happen in real life. 00:07:15.840 --> 00:07:18.820 And in my story is, is different. 00:07:18.820 --> 00:07:24.280 You know, I, I, you know, I grew up in Northern Virginia, great family and, uh, pursued ministry 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:26.400 in my life, but I, I'm also divorced. 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:29.800 Uh, and there's a lot of hurt that goes along with that. 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:31.720 And I'm trying to raise my four kids. 00:07:32.300 --> 00:07:37.000 Uh, you know, I'm co-parenting, but there's a lot of aloneness that comes with that. 00:07:37.440 --> 00:07:41.720 And, um, what I've discovered is the more I can share my life with people and encourage 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:44.940 people, uh, in that way, people respond. 00:07:44.940 --> 00:07:49.100 And I get messages, uh, different, at different times on different platforms. 00:07:49.100 --> 00:07:51.120 Sometimes I'll get a message on Tik TOK. 00:07:51.280 --> 00:07:53.340 Other times I'll get a message on Twitter. 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:58.260 Other times I'll get a message on Facebook about how, what I've been able to share has 00:07:58.260 --> 00:08:02.280 encouraged them and challenged them in their relationship with, with the Lord. 00:08:02.280 --> 00:08:07.160 So, yeah, I mean, it's not like I'm reaching millions of people, but I feel like God's using 00:08:07.160 --> 00:08:08.960 this for just that one. 00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:13.860 And every time I create content, I'm looking for who can I connect with, uh, on that. 00:08:14.260 --> 00:08:18.600 You know, I've it's, that's beautiful, Tom, just, just yesterday I was, I had a meeting 00:08:18.600 --> 00:08:22.560 with, uh, the social media director of the church that, um, that I'm serving at. 00:08:22.660 --> 00:08:23.840 We're down here in Miami. 00:08:23.840 --> 00:08:26.380 We just launched, um, a re reality church. 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:27.640 It's literally called reality church. 00:08:27.700 --> 00:08:31.980 Carlos will let's the pastor, but I was meeting with their, their volunteer social media director. 00:08:32.500 --> 00:08:36.100 And, um, and, and, and I told her, I was like, this, this may hurt. 00:08:36.100 --> 00:08:42.940 This may be hard to hear, but the organizational, the institutional voice has never meant less 00:08:42.940 --> 00:08:44.920 than it does right now. 00:08:44.920 --> 00:08:46.720 And, and it's actually decreasing. 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:48.600 It's not increasing. 00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:55.800 And so as, as much as we're pouring this energy and the effort into creating these perfect posts 00:08:55.800 --> 00:09:01.760 to go within the church, social media channels, the, the real influence, the real reach of the 00:09:01.760 --> 00:09:08.920 church is not through the organizational channels, but what, what if we started equipping the people 00:09:08.920 --> 00:09:17.140 of our church to share within their social media channels, like to reach their individual ones, 00:09:17.140 --> 00:09:23.700 as opposed to the church organizational one, like the, the, the ones of the individuals far 00:09:23.700 --> 00:09:27.080 outnumber the ones that the organization can reach. 00:09:27.080 --> 00:09:32.480 It just, we need to, to not pivot, like stop the organizational voice. 00:09:32.600 --> 00:09:37.480 But what I challenged her was let's start to pour some resources, maybe that we're not 00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:43.400 using for the organizational and start to resource people to start talking about the church. 00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:49.040 It's, it's better for us when we get people talking about the church than when we, the church 00:09:49.040 --> 00:09:50.640 talk about ourselves. 00:09:50.640 --> 00:09:55.760 And it was funny, like just, it was, it was eyes wide open in that conversation. 00:09:55.760 --> 00:09:58.800 And she's like, I've never, never really thought of it that way before. 00:09:58.800 --> 00:10:01.220 And it's just, there's so much opportunity. 00:10:01.440 --> 00:10:08.040 Once we start realizing that people will listen to others where there is a relational equity, 00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:13.220 honestly, more than they'll listen to our organization in, in, in many ways. 00:10:13.220 --> 00:10:14.660 Have you, have you felt that? 00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:16.420 Do you see that, uh, from new life? 00:10:16.700 --> 00:10:18.340 What, 100%, 100%. 00:10:18.340 --> 00:10:24.860 Again, the, the, I love how you just said, I think so many of us, uh, social media managers 00:10:24.860 --> 00:10:30.160 or online pastors think, uh, we got to be like Wendy's, you know, how Wendy's social media 00:10:30.160 --> 00:10:32.000 brand, they, everyone loves them. 00:10:32.060 --> 00:10:32.900 They love to follow them. 00:10:32.940 --> 00:10:36.860 And there's creativeness there and that we can be like Wendy's and everyone's going to follow 00:10:36.860 --> 00:10:41.880 us, but that's, that's far and few between even the best churches. 00:10:41.880 --> 00:10:46.640 I firmly believe that even the best churches doing it will never be able to be like a Wendy's. 00:10:46.640 --> 00:10:52.700 But what if we trained up people, as you just said, to be digital missionaries, to look 00:10:52.700 --> 00:10:58.000 at social media as a ministry opportunity rather than just something they do for fun. 00:10:58.160 --> 00:10:58.380 Yes. 00:10:58.400 --> 00:10:59.780 You've got to have fun on social media. 00:10:59.860 --> 00:11:02.520 You've got to do fun things, but that's TikTok, man. 00:11:02.620 --> 00:11:06.600 TikTok is all about fun and you can use that to reach other, other people. 00:11:06.660 --> 00:11:11.720 If we train them to think about it, like one of the things, because I do do a small little 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.760 digital missionary class with some people, um, from time to time at our church. 00:11:15.760 --> 00:11:21.880 And the first thing I say to them is whenever you go on social media, spend some time just 00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:26.560 praying to God and asking him to open your eyes to see the ministry opportunities that 00:11:26.560 --> 00:11:27.500 you can have. 00:11:27.680 --> 00:11:32.720 And again, maybe it's just simply sharing your live stream on that Sunday morning, or maybe 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:35.840 it's commenting on someone who's hurting that day. 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:40.340 If God's giving you the eyes and God's giving you the vision, gosh, you're going to be able 00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:41.260 to reach so many people. 00:11:41.320 --> 00:11:45.700 As you just said, the church's reach, especially on Facebook, that algorithm is so terrible. 00:11:45.700 --> 00:11:48.580 And the church's reach on Facebook is so terrible these days. 00:11:48.900 --> 00:11:54.860 But my reach is greater because Facebook values relationships and you can use your relational 00:11:54.860 --> 00:11:58.880 equity, like you said, to reach people for Jesus in a really powerful way. 00:11:59.520 --> 00:12:00.080 It's funny. 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:05.520 You said the word tick tock for me, the number one question I get right now. 00:12:05.860 --> 00:12:06.440 Uh, okay. 00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:11.060 Maybe the top three questions, 2020, the number one question I got, I don't know about you, 00:12:11.100 --> 00:12:13.800 Tom, but the number one question was, what do we do with the kids? 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.100 How do we do kids ministry and student ministry easily? 00:12:17.100 --> 00:12:21.800 The top three questions that I'm getting in 2021, how does my church take advantage of 00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:22.180 tick tock? 00:12:22.280 --> 00:12:23.300 What are we doing on tick tock? 00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:28.220 Um, and, and you know, what's funny is I don't, I don't, I personally, I don't have a 00:12:28.220 --> 00:12:29.180 solid answer for that. 00:12:29.180 --> 00:12:33.540 I mean, other than get your pastor dancing on tick tock and, and nobody seems to want 00:12:33.540 --> 00:12:34.700 to take advantage of that. 00:12:35.020 --> 00:12:37.340 Um, but you know, it's within our churches. 00:12:37.340 --> 00:12:41.700 We have people that understand tick tock far better than me. 00:12:41.780 --> 00:12:44.860 44 year old bald guy with a goatee understands tick tock. 00:12:45.040 --> 00:12:51.860 And, and, and rather than the church owning the strategy of tick tock, maybe we should instead 00:12:51.860 --> 00:12:58.380 release the concept, release that responsibility to someone that we've discipled who understands 00:12:58.380 --> 00:12:59.580 the community of tick tock. 00:12:59.920 --> 00:13:04.040 Uh, if you, if you're wanting to, to, you know, here in Miami, obviously there's a lot 00:13:04.040 --> 00:13:05.820 of multicultural around. 00:13:05.820 --> 00:13:12.060 And so as a church, it's not our responsibility in the physical space to understand how to 00:13:12.060 --> 00:13:15.580 reach every nationality of person that lives in Miami. 00:13:15.580 --> 00:13:21.000 But if we're wanting to reach into Hispanic or wanting to reach a Haitian or, or, uh, Central 00:13:21.000 --> 00:13:26.120 American or Cuban, it's, Hey, let's talk with people who really understand that nationality, 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:33.820 who understand how these people think, and now maybe even ask them to be part of our church 00:13:33.820 --> 00:13:37.200 in reaching those people, that neighborhood. 00:13:37.500 --> 00:13:44.300 And even in a digital space, there are people that understand tick tock far better than bald 00:13:44.300 --> 00:13:46.360 goatee Jeff Reed is going to. 00:13:47.040 --> 00:13:53.160 And so how can we disciple them to a place where we trust them spiritually and then release 00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:58.980 them to go reach people, to be that digital missionary and tick tock or to champion the 00:13:58.980 --> 00:14:03.540 idea of us heading into tick tock, uh, to reach people for Christ. 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:04.060 Yeah. 00:14:04.180 --> 00:14:09.460 See, I think the misconception about social media and the church is that everything you 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:11.400 do has to be spiritual. 00:14:12.160 --> 00:14:15.780 And the reality is, no, everything you post doesn't have to be spiritual. 00:14:16.040 --> 00:14:18.020 You have to embrace your church's culture. 00:14:18.220 --> 00:14:23.140 You have to embrace your church's identity and include that a part of. 00:14:23.160 --> 00:14:27.420 TikTok or whatever strategy you're going to be doing there. 00:14:27.580 --> 00:14:32.260 I mean, you, you know, this, I mean, there, there are people who are making lots of money 00:14:32.260 --> 00:14:36.980 off of TikTok right now because they're posting stupid things, but they're building a follower 00:14:36.980 --> 00:14:37.840 and follow. 00:14:38.140 --> 00:14:38.880 And here's the deal. 00:14:38.880 --> 00:14:45.140 If you use your TikTok and post some funny videos that may not lead them closer to Jesus, 00:14:45.140 --> 00:14:50.400 but I'll tell you what it will do when that person's hurting and that person's, uh, 00:14:50.400 --> 00:14:54.420 looking for a church, they may remember your account and say, you know what, that church 00:14:54.420 --> 00:14:55.220 seems pretty fun. 00:14:55.280 --> 00:15:00.620 That I related to that person who shared that simple little story, or I related to that person 00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:02.780 who did that stupid little dance. 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.300 I'm going to check out their church and they might check out your church online and that 00:15:07.300 --> 00:15:09.320 lead them down the, the, the part. 00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:11.700 Again, just TikTok is fun. 00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:13.140 Embrace the funness of it. 00:15:13.200 --> 00:15:16.140 But I also know that TikTok can be inspirational. 00:15:16.460 --> 00:15:21.660 And so we post, um, some encouraging stuff, like some, some clips that we talked to that 00:15:21.660 --> 00:15:23.260 really challenges people's thinking. 00:15:23.460 --> 00:15:27.840 And again, we try to keep them short because I think TikTok is best as a short form. 00:15:28.000 --> 00:15:32.080 I know they've expanded the three minutes and whatnot, and there's actually even talk of 00:15:32.080 --> 00:15:33.320 them expanding even more. 00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:35.600 And I'm like, TikTok is best when it's a minute. 00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:41.820 And if you can keep it to that minute and really make them laugh, make them smile or feel better 00:15:41.820 --> 00:15:45.640 about themselves, then I think that you're, you're doing an effective thing. 00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:47.240 What you're doing is you're highlighting. 00:15:47.380 --> 00:15:51.180 That's actually one of the biggest differences between physical ministry and digital ministry, 00:15:51.360 --> 00:15:58.760 physical ministry, you know, it's, it's all about the, um, it's, it's, you want it quicker. 00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:00.700 It's let's, let's get there. 00:16:00.760 --> 00:16:04.820 Let's do the, let's present the salvation in every message, the plan of salvation. 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:10.580 Um, it's, it's more centered around the, the spiritual aspects within the weekend service, 00:16:10.580 --> 00:16:12.060 you know, and things like that. 00:16:12.060 --> 00:16:17.220 Uh, digital is far more of boil the frog slowly, uh, crockpot than microwave. 00:16:17.640 --> 00:16:24.320 Uh, and, and, and really it's more about what you're suggesting is building that relationship, 00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:29.640 maybe even more than getting to where the end game or, or, or the goal is. 00:16:29.640 --> 00:16:31.160 It's, it's developing it slowly. 00:16:31.640 --> 00:16:35.560 Uh, and, and there are people within church that's, Hey, you, you can't be re you can't 00:16:35.560 --> 00:16:38.260 have that level of relationship digitally. 00:16:38.260 --> 00:16:43.640 What's, what's fascinating to me is the people who are having the, that level of relationship 00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:44.200 digitally. 00:16:44.400 --> 00:16:49.420 And rather than saying they can't do something, encouraging them in it, you know, like I would 00:16:49.420 --> 00:16:54.320 even Tom, even being off topic here a little bit, I would even count our friendship in that 00:16:54.320 --> 00:17:00.700 and, and the ability that we've had to connect relationally connect digitally over social media 00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:06.500 tweets and DMS and emails and zoom calls and, and everything over the years. 00:17:06.620 --> 00:17:11.280 I mean, yeah, it was awesome when we met together physically and, and if we were able to have 00:17:11.280 --> 00:17:15.380 conversations physically that, you know, I, I didn't necessarily want to take time to have 00:17:15.380 --> 00:17:21.200 digitally, but the development of both of those is, is phenomenal. 00:17:21.200 --> 00:17:27.760 And so understanding digitally how we can build these relationships with, with people and start 00:17:27.760 --> 00:17:30.120 to train and equip volunteers to do so. 00:17:30.300 --> 00:17:32.240 Man, this is a beautiful idea. 00:17:32.460 --> 00:17:38.640 Uh, and utilizing these channels to, to reach an Oikos or the circle of influence, uh, for the 00:17:38.640 --> 00:17:44.860 cause of Christ, man, I can't think of a better reason to actually utilize social media other 00:17:44.860 --> 00:17:46.180 than to use it for the kingdom. 00:17:47.060 --> 00:17:53.360 Again, it's just like in, in, in person settings, you know, people want to feel accepted. 00:17:53.520 --> 00:17:54.740 They want to feel cared for. 00:17:55.060 --> 00:17:59.280 And if they feel accepted and cared for by you, they're going to stick around and stay 00:17:59.280 --> 00:17:59.580 longer. 00:17:59.680 --> 00:18:05.380 So when you're thinking about a digital missionary, it is a, it's a longer term play, but again, 00:18:05.540 --> 00:18:07.120 we're, we're in this for salvation. 00:18:07.220 --> 00:18:12.900 And any comment that I get, I respond to any person that is going through a hard time. 00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:18.140 Like again, because I'm on Tik TOK and because my algorithm is interesting, I come across a 00:18:18.140 --> 00:18:19.280 lot of divorce people. 00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:25.800 I comment on every single one of those divorce, uh, Tik TOKs and try to begin the relationship 00:18:25.800 --> 00:18:28.200 or try to begin a friendship and encouraging them. 00:18:28.700 --> 00:18:30.560 And that's part of what a digital missionary does. 00:18:30.640 --> 00:18:35.700 A digital missionary looks for opportunities to comment and share the positiveness of Jesus. 00:18:36.180 --> 00:18:40.660 Because again, we, we know this, there's so many misconceptions about who believers really 00:18:40.660 --> 00:18:42.700 are and people just make up things. 00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:48.880 It's my job as a digital missionary to share the love of Jesus of who Jesus really is to people. 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:54.300 And I do it in what I post as content, but, but how I interact with people as well. 00:18:54.880 --> 00:19:01.040 Let me, let me ask just a clarifying question here on, you know, and I didn't see us focusing 00:19:01.040 --> 00:19:02.380 on Tik TOK, but Hey, why not? 00:19:02.780 --> 00:19:07.400 Um, when you're interfacing on Tik TOK, are you interfacing on a new life channel? 00:19:07.540 --> 00:19:09.540 Are you interfacing on a Tom Pounder channel? 00:19:09.780 --> 00:19:11.940 I'm interfacing as a Tom Pounder. 00:19:11.940 --> 00:19:19.940 So you're doing ministry in this as a digital pastor, you're utilizing your personal channels 00:19:19.940 --> 00:19:22.660 as opposed to an organizational church channel. 00:19:23.160 --> 00:19:24.960 Um, why drill into that for me? 00:19:25.200 --> 00:19:30.720 Yeah, we do have an, we do have an on a church channel and I post and interact with people 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:32.360 as they, they share. 00:19:32.720 --> 00:19:38.520 But when I'm interacting with people, I'm highly looking to interact with people from 00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:43.560 a personal person, because again, people respond better to people than they will respond to 00:19:43.560 --> 00:19:43.860 a church. 00:19:43.860 --> 00:19:49.280 If, if I comment now I can do a little of this and, uh, you know, um, but I've chosen to 00:19:49.280 --> 00:19:53.760 just interact as a person because I feel like I have a greater chance of, of meeting them 00:19:53.760 --> 00:19:55.920 where they are as Tom Pounder. 00:19:55.920 --> 00:20:00.140 And they can look at my bio and they can, you know, discover all that stuff about who I 00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:00.300 am. 00:20:00.300 --> 00:20:04.360 They can look at my videos and know that I'm posting highly encouraging stuff. 00:20:04.540 --> 00:20:10.180 But the reality is, um, I feel like I have a greater chance of impact if it's just Tom 00:20:10.180 --> 00:20:10.740 Pounder. 00:20:10.740 --> 00:20:12.020 What, at what level? 00:20:12.320 --> 00:20:16.120 I mean, let's even, let's, I mean, obviously Tom, you trust yourself. 00:20:16.120 --> 00:20:16.520 Yeah. 00:20:16.540 --> 00:20:20.740 And so you're doing that outside on your, on your personal channels. 00:20:21.080 --> 00:20:26.360 Uh, you know, I've, I've had conversations with, with other digital pastors that, that are 00:20:26.360 --> 00:20:29.800 actually, I don't agree with this personally, but they're a little skeptical 00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:36.940 towards allowing individuals to utilize their own channels as opposed to utilizing the organizational. 00:20:36.940 --> 00:20:38.240 They don't, they don't trust people. 00:20:38.440 --> 00:20:43.020 They're afraid of, um, you know, inappropriate circumstances or, or things happening. 00:20:43.500 --> 00:20:50.880 Um, how do you, like, how would you get past that through, from a new life perspective from 00:20:50.880 --> 00:20:51.620 your church? 00:20:51.800 --> 00:20:53.380 How do you trust the people? 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.280 How do you train the people, equip them? 00:20:55.600 --> 00:20:56.560 What is that relationship? 00:20:56.560 --> 00:21:00.580 Cause we want to get this beyond just digital pastor utilizing his own channels and starting 00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:01.780 to empower others. 00:21:01.780 --> 00:21:08.280 Maybe what are some of the, the, the steps, um, the check points that, that you put in 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:11.120 just to make sure or could make sure that things are legit. 00:21:11.120 --> 00:21:11.600 Yeah. 00:21:11.700 --> 00:21:17.200 So when, when I, when we talk about releasing digital missionaries and the first thing that 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:23.800 really they do is they, they go through an opportunity to go through a four week training 00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:24.420 with me. 00:21:24.520 --> 00:21:28.620 And I kind of go through the basics of what is a digital missionary and what are we looking 00:21:28.620 --> 00:21:29.000 for? 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:33.220 And then I walk them through like, well, how can you be a digital missionary? 00:21:33.460 --> 00:21:39.120 Because I think a lot of people, um, think that a digital missionary has to be a 20, 30 00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:41.500 something year old person or 40 something old person. 00:21:41.620 --> 00:21:47.100 The very first class that I did of digital missionaries, they were all over 40, you know, but they were 00:21:47.100 --> 00:21:52.720 looking to figure out how they can use their platform, uh, to encourage people with Jesus. 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:57.420 And again, part of the cool thing about being, going through this class that I had with them 00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:00.880 is I taught them all the basics of Facebook, Twitter, YouTube. 00:22:01.500 --> 00:22:05.500 Um, at that time I didn't talk about Tik TOK, but the next one I'm going to do, we're going 00:22:05.500 --> 00:22:07.080 to talk about Tik TOK, you know? 00:22:07.200 --> 00:22:10.920 Um, and so we, I go through a process with them. 00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:16.000 Um, and then, you know, kind of weed, weed out some of the people that may not be quite 00:22:16.000 --> 00:22:16.940 ready to do this. 00:22:17.020 --> 00:22:22.260 But the other thing I do is, um, I do a lot of online Bible studies, uh, and the people 00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:28.060 that really comment and are really engaged and active on those online Bible studies, I 00:22:28.060 --> 00:22:34.040 actually ask them personally to consider, uh, taking the steps of path forward and being 00:22:34.040 --> 00:22:38.160 a digital missionary, because I'm seeing their spiritual development, their growth a little 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:38.480 bit. 00:22:38.600 --> 00:22:43.080 And so I'll ask them to run with me and then I'll, I'll stick them actually in a group. 00:22:43.160 --> 00:22:48.260 And this is a, through WhatsApp, I'll stick them in a WhatsApp group and just try to test 00:22:48.260 --> 00:22:51.860 it out a little bit without ever officially being a digital missionary. 00:22:52.060 --> 00:22:56.200 I, I tested out with them and then we go through the training as they make it through 00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:56.400 there. 00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:58.540 So it's a little bit of a few step process. 00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:01.740 It's not refined by any way, stretching the imagination. 00:23:01.740 --> 00:23:05.420 I know there's probably other churches that are doing it better than I am, but that's the 00:23:05.420 --> 00:23:06.420 process I'd go through. 00:23:06.620 --> 00:23:10.880 And I've, you know, I've seen you do, doing this recently, those online Bible studies through, 00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:12.980 uh, Twitter spaces. 00:23:13.320 --> 00:23:14.220 How's, how's that going? 00:23:14.560 --> 00:23:15.080 Uh, okay. 00:23:15.080 --> 00:23:16.320 So the first one was great. 00:23:16.360 --> 00:23:17.380 It was very good. 00:23:17.420 --> 00:23:19.200 The second one, it was not good. 00:23:19.200 --> 00:23:25.300 And so we had, you know, and so, but that's one of the things that I've really enjoyed about 00:23:25.300 --> 00:23:27.760 this is I'm really experimenting to see what works. 00:23:27.760 --> 00:23:32.260 And, uh, it, again, I know this is being recorded and people are going to hear about 00:23:32.260 --> 00:23:35.440 it, but, uh, I post because it did not go well yesterday. 00:23:35.760 --> 00:23:40.420 I actually posted a thing on my digital bootcamp Facebook group to say, when's the best time 00:23:40.420 --> 00:23:41.580 to do an online Bible study? 00:23:41.580 --> 00:23:44.940 Because I'm trying to get an idea of when is the best time. 00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:50.240 See, I took from now you're going to get into the weeds a little bit, but I selected 6 PM 00:23:50.240 --> 00:23:55.540 on a Thursday because I, I saw some people doing Twitter spaces at 5 and 6 PM. 00:23:55.540 --> 00:23:57.600 And I'm like, okay, that's probably an ideal time. 00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.420 They're getting a good audience, but I'm going to run with it. 00:24:00.540 --> 00:24:04.020 But what I discovered after yesterday, I said, you know what? 00:24:04.080 --> 00:24:08.600 Six o'clock is not a good time because the people I'm trying to reach are making dinners 00:24:08.600 --> 00:24:11.000 for their families right now, or they're doing family time. 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:12.060 I need to go. 00:24:12.200 --> 00:24:13.160 I need to go later. 00:24:13.520 --> 00:24:19.300 I need to do these later and to try to attract an audience that way, because that's my target 00:24:19.300 --> 00:24:19.720 audience. 00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:24.400 They're going to be on later when their kids are asleep and they've got a little bit of 00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:24.880 free time. 00:24:25.340 --> 00:24:25.460 Yeah. 00:24:25.560 --> 00:24:28.680 All the studies that I've done, I tend to be like eight or nine at night. 00:24:29.100 --> 00:24:31.860 Um, and so I, I just lean more that way. 00:24:32.040 --> 00:24:33.160 Thanks for telling me, man. 00:24:33.320 --> 00:24:34.260 I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:24:34.260 --> 00:24:34.420 Sorry. 00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:35.260 My, my, my fault. 00:24:35.340 --> 00:24:40.840 I didn't know the quicker you fail, the quicker you are to that time when you do actually succeed. 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:41.760 So there you go. 00:24:41.760 --> 00:24:43.960 I was just helping you help, helping you succeed quicker. 00:24:44.180 --> 00:24:45.460 But, but here's the deal. 00:24:45.580 --> 00:24:46.700 Here's the deal, Jeff. 00:24:46.800 --> 00:24:49.360 I mean, as a digital missionary, you're going to fail a lot. 00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:53.320 Um, as new technology comes out and as things develop, you're going to try things, you're 00:24:53.320 --> 00:24:55.220 going to fail, but that's the beauty of it. 00:24:55.340 --> 00:25:00.000 I mean, I failed yesterday and I'm like, okay, this just didn't work. 00:25:00.280 --> 00:25:03.640 I'm going to, I'm going to make the adjustments and for next week, we'll, we'll do something 00:25:03.640 --> 00:25:04.000 different. 00:25:04.400 --> 00:25:04.560 Yeah. 00:25:04.620 --> 00:25:06.000 And that's, that's beautiful. 00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:10.420 And within your churches, that may be hard to get to that place. 00:25:10.420 --> 00:25:13.200 So I, and I'll just speak from my own ministry life. 00:25:13.200 --> 00:25:19.140 A lot of times for me, failure was, you know, abandon ship and let's never go there again. 00:25:19.720 --> 00:25:27.860 Um, very rarely did I get the failure to iterate failure to learn lessons and re-implement. 00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:32.540 Uh, and it's actually, that's something that we've done in several podcasts with Jay Cranda 00:25:32.540 --> 00:25:39.420 talking about because Jay's culture out at Saddleback has been completely different where, you 00:25:39.420 --> 00:25:44.960 know, I, I think they're currently on their fifth implementation of a micro church strategy. 00:25:45.660 --> 00:25:48.160 Um, and, and it's not even that all of them have failed. 00:25:48.320 --> 00:25:49.880 The first couple were very successful. 00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:51.760 They just weren't scalable. 00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:56.200 And so they just, when they get to a point, they realize, Hey, this isn't working. 00:25:56.360 --> 00:25:57.280 Let's try it again. 00:25:57.460 --> 00:25:59.220 Hey, this worked, but it has this weakness. 00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:00.020 Let's try it again. 00:26:00.320 --> 00:26:00.540 Okay. 00:26:00.540 --> 00:26:01.700 This was a complete failure. 00:26:01.840 --> 00:26:02.620 Let's try it again. 00:26:02.620 --> 00:26:08.740 And, and it's understanding, listen, in the year 2021, anybody who says they have a playbook, 00:26:08.740 --> 00:26:12.400 uh, for church ministry, I don't know what they're talking about. 00:26:12.520 --> 00:26:15.060 Uh, COVID trashed everything. 00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:18.020 Nobody knows what they're, what they're doing. 00:26:18.120 --> 00:26:24.280 I've, I've done, I've done meetups with, with digital pastors, um, with dozen plus digital 00:26:24.280 --> 00:26:28.380 pastors and half of them are openly saying, Hey, I don't, I don't actually know what I'm 00:26:28.380 --> 00:26:28.780 doing here. 00:26:28.780 --> 00:26:33.340 Like it's, it's, it's, it's completely random and everybody's got their strengths and weaknesses. 00:26:33.340 --> 00:26:37.940 And what's fascinating is what one church is really good at and other churches horrible 00:26:37.940 --> 00:26:42.440 at, which is one of the reasons why we do this podcast to be able to highlight successes, 00:26:42.440 --> 00:26:48.300 to be able to highlight, um, new learnings in this area to help churches understand how 00:26:48.300 --> 00:26:49.400 to take some next steps. 00:26:49.400 --> 00:26:53.840 And this idea of digital missionary, uh, and empowering and releasing people. 00:26:54.040 --> 00:26:55.660 This is just golden. 00:26:56.960 --> 00:26:59.980 Tell us, I want to drill in a little more into the weeds here, Tom. 00:27:00.300 --> 00:27:05.280 Um, you, you were so, and I didn't, I didn't realize this and, and we talked about Tyler, 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:09.960 Tyler, we're going to have on, uh, at some point here in a couple months, he's ramping 00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:16.020 up his trainings right now towards digital missionary and excited to kind of see what he's doing 00:27:16.020 --> 00:27:16.520 and thinking. 00:27:16.700 --> 00:27:20.260 I didn't realize you were actually doing like a four week course on that. 00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:22.820 It sounds like, you know, a couple of times here. 00:27:23.520 --> 00:27:27.940 Talk to me, like, do you know, I'm, this is in the weeds and I apologize for putting you 00:27:27.940 --> 00:27:28.360 on the spot. 00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:30.600 What's like the syllabus of the four weeks? 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.960 What are you covering over those four weeks? 00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.760 What is that development process for training somebody to be a digital missionary? 00:27:36.900 --> 00:27:38.240 What does it actually do? 00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:44.580 Well, so like the first week is something where we just talk about the value of missionary 00:27:44.580 --> 00:27:48.500 work, why we should go, what's the point of us going and being there. 00:27:49.000 --> 00:27:50.860 And then I kind of tease a little bit. 00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:55.940 I try to keep these to like an hour long time because I know time is very valuable, but we, 00:27:55.940 --> 00:28:00.640 we, we dig into scripture a little bit about Jesus calling us to, to go and reach other 00:28:00.640 --> 00:28:07.580 people and how technology has changed and evolved over the years, um, and how now we have this 00:28:07.580 --> 00:28:11.660 opportunity and I kind of glance over some social media stuff. 00:28:11.800 --> 00:28:16.640 And then week two, I dig into social media and what is social media? 00:28:17.260 --> 00:28:21.780 Um, what's, what's the pros and cons of all the major platforms. 00:28:22.020 --> 00:28:26.180 Uh, of course I spend the most time on Twitter because it's the best pro right there. 00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:31.140 I mean, just kidding, um, but I spend time on all the, the major ones. 00:28:31.200 --> 00:28:33.720 I talk about Facebook, Instagram, Twitter. 00:28:33.860 --> 00:28:34.880 I talk about YouTube. 00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:39.040 And again, like I said, I'll incorporate Tik TOK in the next one that I do. 00:28:39.500 --> 00:28:46.780 Um, and then week three, um, we get into, um, ministry opportunities. 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:53.020 And I talk about how are, what are the different ways that you can be a digital missionary. 00:28:53.740 --> 00:28:59.280 And we work towards the different things that you can tell about stories and posting images, 00:28:59.460 --> 00:29:00.300 posting live streams. 00:29:00.480 --> 00:29:04.760 Again, as you know, Jeff, there's like some real basic stuff that you can do that everyone 00:29:04.760 --> 00:29:06.500 can do really easy starting today. 00:29:06.620 --> 00:29:13.700 And then you dig down a little bit deeper in what ultimately we get to do is, um, uh, I 00:29:13.700 --> 00:29:16.680 want them to be able to share their story, their testimony. 00:29:17.340 --> 00:29:22.160 Um, and so I, the assignment on week three is what's your story. 00:29:22.360 --> 00:29:27.700 Uh, and when you come back to class, I want you to the following week, tell us your three 00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:29.720 to five minute story so that you can share it. 00:29:30.060 --> 00:29:35.600 Uh, and then week four is when we, um, we actually share our stories. 00:29:36.040 --> 00:29:40.320 Uh, the, the homework assignment then is to go and share it in some form online. 00:29:40.520 --> 00:29:45.240 But then we also talk about tech gear that you can use, you know, how, you know, using 00:29:45.240 --> 00:29:48.760 your smartphone is maybe the only tool you will need. 00:29:48.840 --> 00:29:53.300 And then we talk about some other tools and gadgets you can use, uh, that will help you 00:29:53.300 --> 00:29:57.560 make videos better, uh, or do, uh, or share your content better. 00:29:57.660 --> 00:30:00.620 So that's kind of the general thing without looking at it right now. 00:30:00.840 --> 00:30:03.280 That's kind of the general, how I, how I work it. 00:30:03.660 --> 00:30:03.880 I know. 00:30:03.940 --> 00:30:04.860 I, I love it. 00:30:04.860 --> 00:30:05.900 And that's, that's a great. 00:30:06.040 --> 00:30:13.340 Um, even just base model to kind of work towards, um, you know, as I mean, I think I was 40 00:30:13.340 --> 00:30:20.320 when, and with a 15 year ministry staff, like a ministry career, professional Christian church 00:30:20.320 --> 00:30:26.580 staff, I think I was 40 before somebody literally taught me how to share my faith. 00:30:26.580 --> 00:30:29.680 Um, like the evangelism training, um, like the evangelism training that piece. 00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:34.600 And, and, and I, at the time it was, um, you know, the three circles, four fields, three 00:30:34.600 --> 00:30:37.640 thirds, like there's whole system centered around that. 00:30:37.780 --> 00:30:42.140 And somebody sat down and actually started, I was, I'm not kidding 40. 00:30:42.140 --> 00:30:46.140 And it was like, Oh my gosh, I, and, and, and, and am I sharing my faith? 00:30:46.200 --> 00:30:47.460 Am I doing this confession hour here? 00:30:47.500 --> 00:30:49.200 No, I wasn't before that point. 00:30:49.200 --> 00:30:56.480 I was great at producing services, but even as a church staff, I was not great at, at having 00:30:56.480 --> 00:30:58.540 those personal level conversations. 00:30:59.080 --> 00:31:05.160 Um, and, and I would suspect a lot of our church members, a lot of the consumers, a lot of the 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:10.400 people in our, in our seats, um, or watching us online, uh, I would suspect that they're 00:31:10.400 --> 00:31:11.440 probably the same way. 00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.460 I mean, sure. 00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:16.940 Maybe they're, they're comfortable having a conversation if somebody comes and talks to 00:31:16.940 --> 00:31:23.740 them about Jesus, but something proactive, uh, something reaching out, even praying for 00:31:23.740 --> 00:31:28.660 these people in advance and walking in with intentionality, uh, and allowing the Holy spirit 00:31:28.660 --> 00:31:29.340 to use them. 00:31:29.520 --> 00:31:34.600 I, I, I would suspect at least my circle of influence and my friends, they struggle with 00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:34.900 that. 00:31:34.900 --> 00:31:39.180 And so even Tom, what you're suggesting is a, is a beautiful thing. 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:40.180 Well, let me ask this. 00:31:40.180 --> 00:31:43.920 Like if some, if a church out there is like, Hey, I want to do that. 00:31:43.920 --> 00:31:51.460 I want to, I'm interested in this, uh, digital missionary piece, um, evangelism training, helping 00:31:51.460 --> 00:31:57.840 people understand how to utilize their social media networks, their Oikos, um, for, for the 00:31:57.840 --> 00:31:58.440 cause of Christ. 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.020 Like how would a church even get started in this? 00:32:01.100 --> 00:32:03.420 How do you, how do you get from square one to where you are? 00:32:03.700 --> 00:32:05.240 That's a good question, Jeff. 00:32:05.360 --> 00:32:07.440 And I wish I could have the answer for you. 00:32:07.520 --> 00:32:08.000 No, I'm just kidding. 00:32:08.440 --> 00:32:11.340 Uh, I, I, I would contact someone like you, Jeff. 00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.780 I mean, I, or someone, you know, someone that you know, that's doing it again, the great 00:32:15.780 --> 00:32:22.780 thing that's come out of, um, COVID in is that there's more people thinking online now 00:32:22.780 --> 00:32:27.500 and there's more people thinking online opportunities and people like you, Jeff, who've been in online 00:32:27.500 --> 00:32:31.540 ministry well before COVID hit, um, have been thinking that way. 00:32:31.540 --> 00:32:38.600 And I think, you know, if, if you really see the value in online and I can't see how you've 00:32:38.600 --> 00:32:44.100 been through COVID and not seen the value of online, then you have to just continue to scratch 00:32:44.100 --> 00:32:49.900 where it is itching and realize that while people may be zoomed out, they're still watching 00:32:49.900 --> 00:32:50.560 your services. 00:32:50.560 --> 00:32:55.260 They're still engaging with people online and there's still plenty of opportunities. 00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.620 Uh, and so I, I think it's like reaching out to the people who are really doing it. 00:33:00.620 --> 00:33:06.900 And, you know, again, Jeff, your, your list of people who know is far greater than the mine, 00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:10.460 but I think just reaching out to some of these people who've been doing it for a long time 00:33:10.460 --> 00:33:11.580 and just picking their brains. 00:33:11.580 --> 00:33:15.920 And that's, that's one of the things, again, when I started doing online ministry, the very 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:20.520 first person I reached out to was Jay Cranda and he didn't know me from anybody. 00:33:20.720 --> 00:33:25.820 And he was the nicest person to me and shared just the most amazing stuff with me and gave 00:33:25.820 --> 00:33:28.540 me time and answered all my questions. 00:33:28.660 --> 00:33:33.840 And then as I got to know you, you know, well before COVID, you were super nice to me as well. 00:33:33.840 --> 00:33:39.840 And just sharing stuff, all these online guys are some of the coolest people that I've ever 00:33:39.840 --> 00:33:40.720 met in ministry. 00:33:40.840 --> 00:33:41.480 And I'm not kidding. 00:33:41.700 --> 00:33:43.600 I mean, they're, they're not arrogant. 00:33:44.100 --> 00:33:47.920 They are humble people who are simply trying to do the Lord's work. 00:33:48.040 --> 00:33:52.320 And so, um, I don't know if you have a list, Jeff, of all the great people doing it, but 00:33:52.320 --> 00:33:58.060 I would say start talking to them and to getting ideas because there's lots of, lots of opportunities 00:33:58.060 --> 00:33:58.420 out there. 00:33:58.880 --> 00:33:59.000 Yeah. 00:33:59.000 --> 00:34:04.680 I think one of the reasons why the community is so tight is because pre COVID, you know, 00:34:04.680 --> 00:34:07.220 for a decade, Jay Cranda was told he was crazy. 00:34:07.440 --> 00:34:08.600 You were told you were crazy. 00:34:09.260 --> 00:34:12.800 I mean, I've, I've, I've been doing this for 20 years and I've been told I've been, you 00:34:12.800 --> 00:34:14.860 know, nuts and I've been chewed up and down. 00:34:14.860 --> 00:34:21.440 Um, yeah, we can, this podcast, I've told that story many times, uh, but it's, it's understanding 00:34:21.440 --> 00:34:28.160 as a result of that, you know, even in this COVID season, uh, the, the, the continuity, 00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:33.620 the, the, the, the friend, the friendliness, the support, uh, within the digital, I, I talk 00:34:33.620 --> 00:34:39.380 with on, uh, with, uh, like student pastors, children's pastors, music pastors. 00:34:39.680 --> 00:34:43.720 I don't, I don't see a creative directors, communication people. 00:34:43.880 --> 00:34:51.400 Like I don't see the, the community aspect nearly as tight in those areas as I do among, 00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:57.100 uh, digital pastors and online people and churches that, that are doing online ministry. 00:34:57.100 --> 00:34:58.700 So yeah, definitely resource. 00:34:58.760 --> 00:35:00.240 And we'll throw some links in the show notes. 00:35:00.280 --> 00:35:01.020 You can check that out. 00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:06.060 I mean, I would also, I would even start to kick the tires, explore some of these like 00:35:06.060 --> 00:35:10.280 disciple making systems that are, that are already out there, uh, that are already existing. 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:11.340 Don't reinvent the wheel. 00:35:11.620 --> 00:35:17.060 Uh, Timothy initiative disciples made, uh, four fields, some of the stuff out of, out of no 00:35:17.060 --> 00:35:23.380 place left, um, discipleship tools, uh, is, is another one, uh, zoom a training. 00:35:24.040 --> 00:35:30.560 Um, like there's, there's a lot of stuff that already exists and it's not that hard. 00:35:30.900 --> 00:35:35.220 Hey, ask your church this, can I get 10 people and do an experiment? 00:35:35.580 --> 00:35:40.900 I want to go through this 10 week discipleship system and see if we can't, at the end of this, 00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:44.440 get people excited about talking about Jesus on social media. 00:35:44.840 --> 00:35:48.720 And, and if you get success with the 10 people, that's awesome. 00:35:48.840 --> 00:35:52.480 If you don't get success, maybe try another material. 00:35:52.480 --> 00:35:57.560 I mean, another system, another process, make adjustments, try to figure out where the breakdown 00:35:57.560 --> 00:36:00.440 was, ask where the breakdown was and try again. 00:36:00.440 --> 00:36:05.540 I mean, it doesn't stuff like this doesn't cost anything and it doesn't hurt anything to try 00:36:05.540 --> 00:36:06.140 to experiment. 00:36:06.140 --> 00:36:11.720 Uh, and the payoff can be, um, incredible can be like church changing. 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:12.880 Well, I would agree. 00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:14.680 There's so many resources out there. 00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:21.300 And I think in a large part too, um, when I told my church that I was going to do a digital 00:36:21.300 --> 00:36:24.080 missionary group, they were like a static. 00:36:24.280 --> 00:36:28.540 They never even thought of that before, but if you have someone thinking that way, um, 00:36:28.820 --> 00:36:31.700 then they're going to, they're going to let you run with it. 00:36:31.720 --> 00:36:34.720 And, um, like you said, there's so many different tools out there. 00:36:34.720 --> 00:36:38.900 You're not recreating the rule, the, the, you're not recreating the wheel. 00:36:39.220 --> 00:36:43.000 You're simply just tailoring it to the digital and online world. 00:36:43.880 --> 00:36:44.240 Love it. 00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:44.660 Love it. 00:36:44.720 --> 00:36:45.060 Love it. 00:36:45.420 --> 00:36:48.020 Hey, this has been Matt, Tom, this has been a great time. 00:36:48.180 --> 00:36:49.740 Uh, it's always great hanging out with you. 00:36:49.940 --> 00:36:52.460 Uh, as, as we're landing the plane, man, any closing thoughts here? 00:36:52.680 --> 00:36:57.220 No, I, I think there's lots of, there's lots of opportunities out there and the more digital 00:36:57.220 --> 00:37:03.320 missionaries we can get out there is sharing hope and love of Jesus, not creating arguments 00:37:03.320 --> 00:37:06.720 or division, but just sharing the truth of Jesus out there. 00:37:06.780 --> 00:37:09.740 The better our social media interactions are going to be. 00:37:10.220 --> 00:37:13.440 And Lord knows we need to reclaim social media for the kingdom. 00:37:13.580 --> 00:37:15.460 Maybe a little bit here or there as, as well. 00:37:15.460 --> 00:37:18.540 So, Hey, uh, Tom, thanks for jumping on the podcast. 00:37:18.720 --> 00:37:23.580 If, if we'll include, um, links in the show notes for all of Tom stuff, but Tom, great 00:37:23.580 --> 00:37:24.780 for, thanks for jumping on. 00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.540 Glad to have you here. 00:37:25.820 --> 00:37:29.740 And, uh, for everybody else listening, thanks for joining in with, uh, the church digital 00:37:29.740 --> 00:37:30.120 podcast. 00:37:30.240 --> 00:37:31.060 Thanks for jumping on the show. 00:37:31.120 --> 00:37:32.740 We'll see you next time here at the pod. 00:37:33.000 --> 00:37:33.460 Y'all have a good day.