WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.800 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:04.520 --> 00:00:09.380 Through this podcast, learn about how God is using technology and innovation in digital 00:00:09.380 --> 00:00:11.580 and digital environments around the world. 00:00:12.100 --> 00:00:12.520 Our goal? 00:00:12.920 --> 00:00:16.000 To help churches like yours learn to be the church digitally. 00:00:16.660 --> 00:00:17.260 Our heart? 00:00:17.740 --> 00:00:23.080 That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple-making that will revolutionize 00:00:23.080 --> 00:00:23.600 your church. 00:00:24.120 --> 00:00:26.660 And now, your host, here's Jeff Reed. 00:00:27.340 --> 00:00:29.520 All right, hey, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:29.520 --> 00:00:31.400 We're going to have a fun episode here. 00:00:32.360 --> 00:00:35.280 Hey, congratulations, y'all survived Christmas. 00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:38.060 I know it was close, it was tight, it was nervous. 00:00:38.180 --> 00:00:39.720 Some of you were really freaking out. 00:00:40.040 --> 00:00:45.080 But hey, ministry in the Christmas season is hard and it's stressful. 00:00:45.500 --> 00:00:47.840 Unfortunately, it's one of these seasons. 00:00:47.920 --> 00:00:53.800 We talked about seasons and margins and boundaries and stuff like that in the podcast last week. 00:00:54.100 --> 00:00:57.780 Last week's podcast was a little heavy, you know, coming into the Christmas season, a lot 00:00:57.780 --> 00:00:58.500 of stress with that. 00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:02.040 But hey, we just, we wanted to have a little more fun in the season. 00:01:02.040 --> 00:01:06.540 So we are doing the 2021 Podcast Awards. 00:01:06.660 --> 00:01:10.360 And by we, I mean the Church Digital Podcast Network. 00:01:10.460 --> 00:01:13.320 Now, what's interesting is most of you out there are like, what are you talking about 00:01:13.320 --> 00:01:13.960 a podcast network? 00:01:14.300 --> 00:01:20.240 So yeah, hey, by the way, 2022, just in a matter of weeks, we are starting up a podcast network 00:01:20.240 --> 00:01:23.520 and we're going to be rolling out, you know, you are getting an inside scoop here because 00:01:23.520 --> 00:01:28.260 we are rolling out a bunch of changes with the Church Digital and are really starting to 00:01:28.260 --> 00:01:34.980 look at aggressively platforming more speakers, more content, more resources to help churches 00:01:34.980 --> 00:01:39.080 like yours understand how to manage digital. 00:01:39.300 --> 00:01:44.100 And the great thing is it's more than just me because I have my nuances. 00:01:44.300 --> 00:01:46.540 I have the things that I'm looking for and I work for some churches. 00:01:46.800 --> 00:01:48.400 But here's an inside scoop. 00:01:48.460 --> 00:01:49.260 I don't work for everybody. 00:01:49.640 --> 00:01:53.600 Like some of the stuff that I talk about, the aggressiveness of the approach, it's not 00:01:53.600 --> 00:01:54.400 for every church. 00:01:54.660 --> 00:01:59.640 And so rather than, you know, just serving the small group, the niche group that's wanting 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:04.600 to be more experimental and aggressive, we're really moving into the season of wanting to 00:02:04.600 --> 00:02:10.120 embrace more, of helping a whole lot of different churches where regardless of where they are, 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:11.640 what they're looking for. 00:02:11.960 --> 00:02:14.500 And so we're going to get to the podcast at awards. 00:02:14.600 --> 00:02:15.480 We're going to get there in a little bit. 00:02:15.540 --> 00:02:17.020 The best of 21. 00:02:17.400 --> 00:02:19.980 I'm kind of excited where we're going, but I want to take a moment here. 00:02:20.040 --> 00:02:21.920 Let's introduce, this is just some of the team. 00:02:22.000 --> 00:02:25.740 Some of the team wasn't able to make it today, but some of the team here with where we're 00:02:25.740 --> 00:02:26.000 going. 00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:29.680 And so first off, we've got Tom Pounder, TCD sidekick. 00:02:29.680 --> 00:02:35.400 This guy's been doing digital ministry for maybe, actually, Tom, you have been doing it 00:02:35.400 --> 00:02:39.180 longer than me, like on the, like for a church. 00:02:39.300 --> 00:02:40.460 So congratulations, Grandpa. 00:02:40.900 --> 00:02:41.720 You're the guy. 00:02:41.800 --> 00:02:45.380 Do you want to, you want to maybe talk a little bit, share a little bit about, about who you 00:02:45.380 --> 00:02:45.600 are? 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:46.660 Yeah. 00:02:46.800 --> 00:02:48.100 I'm Tom Pounder. 00:02:48.220 --> 00:02:53.120 I'm in Northern Virginia, which is just outside of Washington, DC, about 25 minutes. 00:02:53.440 --> 00:02:56.980 But with traffic, it's actually probably like an hour or more. 00:02:56.980 --> 00:02:58.280 So, but yeah. 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:00.900 Isn't everything like an hour around there? 00:03:01.060 --> 00:03:01.280 Yeah. 00:03:01.380 --> 00:03:02.760 It's a little crazy. 00:03:03.000 --> 00:03:08.600 Now that we just heard a stat though, that traffic is down 65% from 2019. 00:03:08.980 --> 00:03:13.840 So even though it's, you know, it's improving, it's still kind of insane at times. 00:03:14.240 --> 00:03:16.100 It took a global pandemic to get there. 00:03:16.160 --> 00:03:17.060 Thank you, COVID. 00:03:17.320 --> 00:03:21.660 Like that just, is, is there anything, COVID is the gift that just keeps on giving that. 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:22.340 Thank you for that. 00:03:22.420 --> 00:03:23.060 That was beautiful. 00:03:23.520 --> 00:03:26.400 You know, what's great about that is it still takes an hour. 00:03:26.780 --> 00:03:27.280 That's right. 00:03:27.340 --> 00:03:30.160 All the construction that's going on, that happens all the time. 00:03:30.820 --> 00:03:33.640 I've been doing ministry since 1997. 00:03:34.200 --> 00:03:35.860 Student ministry is my background. 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:41.900 And I started doing online ministry around 2014, 2015. 00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:51.080 And when we wanted to start doing online ministry, we were given some cameras and given the HD 500 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:55.120 from Exponential and they let us use it. 00:03:55.180 --> 00:03:56.180 And so we started doing it. 00:03:56.340 --> 00:04:00.820 And so they, they nominated me because I was the student minister and they said, oh, you're 00:04:00.820 --> 00:04:01.640 on social media. 00:04:01.780 --> 00:04:05.200 You could easily pick this up, which I had no idea how to do. 00:04:05.540 --> 00:04:07.120 So yeah. 00:04:07.140 --> 00:04:08.240 So I've been doing that. 00:04:08.320 --> 00:04:09.040 It's been fun. 00:04:09.220 --> 00:04:10.300 It's been awesome. 00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:16.020 I like to blog, I like to podcast, and you can find all my stuff at thechurch.digital. 00:04:17.020 --> 00:04:20.920 I love doing that stuff and just kind of writing about digital stuff. 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.700 So, and how it applies into our practical ministry experiences. 00:04:26.400 --> 00:04:26.880 I love that. 00:04:26.960 --> 00:04:29.160 And so Tom's podcast is TCD Sidekick. 00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:33.880 It publishes on Wednesdays, still going right now and rolling through. 00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:35.000 Love that. 00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:36.340 Hey, let's, let's get to the next one. 00:04:36.380 --> 00:04:40.320 I'm excited about all these guys, but Andy Mage is coming on. 00:04:40.380 --> 00:04:44.800 And Andy, I've, I've known for, we were trying to figure it out pre-COVID, maybe, maybe two 00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.020 and a half, three years connected with him through an online Bible study. 00:04:49.140 --> 00:04:52.400 I was leading with some other digital pastors back pre-COVID. 00:04:53.040 --> 00:04:57.400 Andy, tell us a little bit about, about you, your ministry and, and, and what you're looking 00:04:57.400 --> 00:05:00.340 to do here with the podcast moving forward in 22. 00:05:00.820 --> 00:05:01.260 Yeah. 00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:02.420 I'm Andy Mage. 00:05:02.420 --> 00:05:06.420 I am a digital pastor for Bay Hope Church down in Tampa, Florida. 00:05:07.060 --> 00:05:12.620 But more than that, I'm looking to expand the kingdom digitally because there's such a large 00:05:12.620 --> 00:05:14.000 ministry field out there right now. 00:05:14.000 --> 00:05:17.460 And there's a lot of, a lot of people that need to feel the love of Jesus in the online 00:05:17.460 --> 00:05:18.360 sphere. 00:05:18.800 --> 00:05:20.040 And so that's what we're here to do. 00:05:20.360 --> 00:05:26.060 And, uh, yeah, like, like Jeff said, we, we connected through a Bible study that I think 00:05:26.060 --> 00:05:30.320 back to those years and think, oh man, what, if we would have known what we know now, we 00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:33.200 would have been way further ahead right now. 00:05:33.700 --> 00:05:35.400 Uh, we would have been doing a whole lot more. 00:05:35.500 --> 00:05:37.120 We were, we were so young then, Jeff. 00:05:37.260 --> 00:05:40.840 Uh, my beard was, you commented at a meeting yesterday that my beard was starting to get 00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:41.100 gray. 00:05:41.140 --> 00:05:45.680 And I, while I, I took umbrage at that, I went home and looked in the mirror and went, yeah, 00:05:45.680 --> 00:05:46.360 you're getting older. 00:05:46.880 --> 00:05:48.920 Uh, yeah, yeah, it, it really is. 00:05:48.980 --> 00:05:49.400 That's true. 00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:53.760 Um, but yeah, I'm, I'm excited to be part of the, part of the network here to be with 00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:57.680 these guys and to everyone else that we're going to be, uh, kind of kicking it with. 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:03.140 Um, I'm looking at starting something new, uh, with the church digital podcast or the church 00:06:03.140 --> 00:06:05.040 digital, uh, podcast network, excuse me. 00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:12.200 And it, it, it kind of has to deal a little bit on the more production side, but not so 00:06:12.200 --> 00:06:14.680 much as cameras and cables and all that other stuff. 00:06:14.680 --> 00:06:19.320 Instead, the idea that when we communicate, we're communicating through this kind of glass 00:06:19.320 --> 00:06:20.680 eyeball that I'm pointing at. 00:06:20.740 --> 00:06:25.600 And if you're listening to this on audio, I just pointed at the camera, uh, that there 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:29.660 are usually thousands of people on the other side of that camera, but realistically you're 00:06:29.660 --> 00:06:31.420 only trying to reach one person. 00:06:31.420 --> 00:06:37.100 And so I, I want to start a podcast called breaking the fifth wall and it's really sort 00:06:37.100 --> 00:06:42.760 of a, a teaching time for pastors and leaders and group leaders and, um, people that are 00:06:42.760 --> 00:06:48.580 going to be on camera in the digital kingdom sphere that we're, we're looking to really 00:06:48.580 --> 00:06:49.260 minister to. 00:06:49.260 --> 00:06:51.540 And, and that's designed around communication. 00:06:51.540 --> 00:06:57.020 It's designed around how to actually talk to people when there's not an actual person 00:06:57.020 --> 00:06:57.440 there. 00:06:57.440 --> 00:07:00.500 When I have to look at a screen to talk to other people, it is a skill. 00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:05.120 And it's one of those skills that I think a lot of pastors that I've seen have not mastered. 00:07:05.120 --> 00:07:06.080 And so I want to help them. 00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:11.700 I want to help the, the greater community out there really start to utilize their communication 00:07:11.700 --> 00:07:12.140 skills. 00:07:12.140 --> 00:07:16.660 Because let's face it, a lot of these pastors are used to speaking to big groups of people 00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:20.820 and they're used to presenting themselves and standing in such a way and blocking in such 00:07:20.820 --> 00:07:21.120 a way. 00:07:21.420 --> 00:07:26.900 And that doesn't work when all I have is a, you know, a three by four screen or a 16 by 00:07:26.900 --> 00:07:30.320 nine screen that I'm at home or in a studio somewhere. 00:07:30.320 --> 00:07:34.540 And so breaking the fifth wall is designed to really help people through that journey and 00:07:34.540 --> 00:07:39.060 help them really start to communicate and use their gifts the way God intended them to 00:07:39.060 --> 00:07:39.500 be used. 00:07:40.460 --> 00:07:45.020 Love that content's going to be so important moving forward and, and understanding how to 00:07:45.020 --> 00:07:46.080 communicate to that. 00:07:46.180 --> 00:07:46.300 Yeah. 00:07:46.340 --> 00:07:48.480 Like when you said four, three, I'm not going to lie. 00:07:48.580 --> 00:07:52.820 I cringed a little bit inside with, with the, with that resolution, but I hear you. 00:07:52.920 --> 00:07:57.340 I feel you, you know, not everybody's doing the super wide that I'm looking at right now. 00:07:57.340 --> 00:07:58.420 And so I'm like, it's cool. 00:07:58.480 --> 00:07:58.800 We're good. 00:07:59.100 --> 00:08:02.700 Hey, so Chesley Lundy's next up and, and, and excited about this. 00:08:02.760 --> 00:08:06.740 We've been, uh, I spent some time just recently with Chesley out in Kansas city, hanging out 00:08:06.740 --> 00:08:10.420 with Rob Wagner and, and some of the things we're working on, on the digital church network 00:08:10.420 --> 00:08:13.340 more on that later, you know, it's kind of like the tea stuff and roll it out slowly, 00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:17.500 but Hey, Chesley, maybe talk to hear a little bit about what you're wanting to focus on. 00:08:17.560 --> 00:08:21.140 Maybe your ministry story, of course, but what, what you're focusing on in 22, uh, through 00:08:21.140 --> 00:08:21.580 the network. 00:08:21.900 --> 00:08:22.260 Yeah. 00:08:22.320 --> 00:08:27.180 Some of you that have listened to the church digital podcast know that I'm a church planter, 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:29.160 a digital church planter with King city. 00:08:29.780 --> 00:08:35.580 And, uh, we are starting a podcast in 2022 called church disrupted. 00:08:36.020 --> 00:08:42.520 Clayton Christensen, uh, with the Harvard business Institute talks about disruption of prevailing 00:08:42.520 --> 00:08:43.680 models of industry. 00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:49.700 And I believe we are probably in the third biggest disruption the church has ever faced. 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:55.340 And so what that means is what got us here won't help us succeed in the future. 00:08:55.340 --> 00:09:00.420 And so we need new, uh, and new strategies, new vision. 00:09:00.420 --> 00:09:07.020 And so I want to take industry leaders from other industries that I've already been in digital, 00:09:07.020 --> 00:09:12.540 uh, the digital playing field for a little while with community building with, uh, infrastructure 00:09:12.540 --> 00:09:19.020 and talk to them and get new insights that we can be, begin to translate into the church 00:09:19.020 --> 00:09:19.340 world. 00:09:19.480 --> 00:09:24.540 So that way we can be successful in the, in the new era of church, which I believe is going 00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:25.640 to be our finest hour. 00:09:25.880 --> 00:09:30.560 By the way, I love surrounding myself with smart people and then listening to them. 00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:34.300 And even just listening to Chesley describe the church disrupted podcast. 00:09:34.300 --> 00:09:35.280 That's coming soon. 00:09:35.440 --> 00:09:39.800 Yeah, I feel smarter and I'm looking forward to, Hey, hearing that voice and seeing that 00:09:39.800 --> 00:09:40.180 out there. 00:09:40.460 --> 00:09:43.320 Another smart guy, uh, is going to be Garrett Silji. 00:09:43.520 --> 00:09:49.580 And, uh, I listened to him quite a bit when it comes to the live production and some of the 00:09:49.580 --> 00:09:49.780 work. 00:09:49.860 --> 00:09:54.560 Garrett's been, been a friend for years and has been working, uh, even in this COVID season 00:09:54.560 --> 00:09:56.320 has been doing a lot of work with the church digital. 00:09:56.320 --> 00:10:01.360 First off, he's, he's the editor of, of all of the podcasts and assembles these together 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:02.280 weekly. 00:10:02.280 --> 00:10:05.080 And so he does a great job with that side note. 00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:09.340 If you're ever looking for somebody, Garrett and his team does an incredible job at assembling 00:10:09.340 --> 00:10:10.040 podcasts. 00:10:10.040 --> 00:10:13.320 And so if you're looking for that, I can connect you would be happy to do that. 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:17.360 But he also is, is running a TCD, the church digital production. 00:10:17.360 --> 00:10:20.140 We've been running a production company on the side. 00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:23.980 It started as a side hustle and it's now it's a very, it's still a side hustle, but it's a 00:10:23.980 --> 00:10:25.220 very significant side hustle. 00:10:25.220 --> 00:10:30.540 And so Garrett and I are actually now partners, uh, in this business and, and, and running that 00:10:30.540 --> 00:10:30.760 out. 00:10:30.780 --> 00:10:34.720 And so congratulations, Garrett, um, you know, love having you as a, a 00:10:34.720 --> 00:10:35.120 partner. 00:10:35.120 --> 00:10:36.940 Like, I mean, that, that, that's a big deal. 00:10:37.100 --> 00:10:41.320 So, Hey, but Garrett, talk to me a little bit, uh, man, your ministry story and what 00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:42.460 you're looking to do in 22. 00:10:42.960 --> 00:10:43.280 Yeah. 00:10:43.380 --> 00:10:44.360 Uh, my name is Garrett. 00:10:44.420 --> 00:10:49.100 As Jeff said, I, um, I usually like to stay behind the scenes. 00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.860 So that's why this is the first time you've seen me on the screens. 00:10:52.060 --> 00:10:57.180 Um, I'm, I like being in the, the, the behind the camera of the church digital podcast, but, 00:10:57.180 --> 00:11:03.680 uh, uh, Jeff's encouragement led me to step out from behind the, the back of the camera 00:11:03.680 --> 00:11:07.680 to step in and be able to come and talk a little bit about what I do. 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:09.600 And then also where we're going to go in 2022. 00:11:09.600 --> 00:11:12.580 So I'm on staff at a church down in Miami, Florida. 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:18.260 I oversee the production for our local and global campuses, including streaming at a multi-site 00:11:18.260 --> 00:11:18.680 church. 00:11:19.480 --> 00:11:24.500 And, uh, as we look towards 2022, not only the production company that Jeff mentioned 00:11:24.500 --> 00:11:29.340 that, that I, that I work alongside him with, but also, uh, something that he's been encouraging 00:11:29.340 --> 00:11:34.900 me on is he said, Hey, you know, you've learned a lot in COVID you've, you've learned a lot 00:11:34.900 --> 00:11:39.680 with the side hustle as we look towards helping churches find their voice online. 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:42.740 Um, why don't you talk about it? 00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:47.480 And so that's something that we're going to look to do in 2022 is start looking to talk 00:11:47.480 --> 00:11:51.320 about and help other churches through the TCD production podcast. 00:11:51.660 --> 00:11:57.280 And so whether it's a starter level, whether it's coaching through of, Hey, Christmas is 00:11:57.280 --> 00:12:03.420 a tough season for production included, all the events, all the services, everything going 00:12:03.420 --> 00:12:05.840 on, and you have your family at home. 00:12:05.960 --> 00:12:11.280 And so talking through what all of that looks like, as we look in church 2022, it's not only 00:12:11.280 --> 00:12:16.520 the gear, which we will be talking about gear, but also then the heart behind it and what 00:12:16.520 --> 00:12:20.240 you experience as you go through those busy seasons and, and letting people know that they're 00:12:20.240 --> 00:12:20.680 not alone. 00:12:21.100 --> 00:12:21.320 Love it. 00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:21.520 Yeah. 00:12:21.520 --> 00:12:26.480 There's mental health is definitely a, a hot topic right now with the great resignation that's 00:12:26.480 --> 00:12:29.200 rolling into through 21 heading into 22. 00:12:29.200 --> 00:12:35.100 We talked about that last week on the podcast and there's going to be more, um, content creators 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:37.740 and blogs and podcasts and streams. 00:12:37.820 --> 00:12:42.000 Like with the church digital, we're really wanting to kind of open this up and, and really 00:12:42.000 --> 00:12:47.540 become, um, a force within the church just to even acknowledge what some of these things 00:12:47.540 --> 00:12:54.740 are and how digital can help and how digital is a different beast that, that needs to operate 00:12:54.740 --> 00:12:55.940 in a, in a different way. 00:12:55.940 --> 00:13:01.440 And so look for more and including these voices, uh, coming very soon at 22, you'll hear about 00:13:01.440 --> 00:13:05.040 that more in the weeks to come, but Hey, we're going to shift gears and let's, let's start 00:13:05.040 --> 00:13:05.900 to have some fun here. 00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:07.060 Uh, so here's what I did. 00:13:07.100 --> 00:13:09.940 I asked these guys, Hey, what are the, what are the podcasts? 00:13:09.940 --> 00:13:13.200 What are the things that you've listened to in 21? 00:13:13.460 --> 00:13:20.760 What are the most impactful either episodes or shows, Christian church, not church business, 00:13:20.760 --> 00:13:22.220 uh, fun stuff. 00:13:22.220 --> 00:13:25.460 Like what is the thing that has impacted you in 21? 00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:30.160 I've got a list of some, I don't know how many we'll get to here in the time, but would 00:13:30.160 --> 00:13:34.720 love to kind of dialogue through here and present some awards because, Hey, we got to present 00:13:34.720 --> 00:13:35.220 some awards. 00:13:35.220 --> 00:13:38.920 I don't know that, you know, they'll actually get an award, but at least they get like verbal 00:13:38.920 --> 00:13:40.480 recognition and a pat on the back. 00:13:40.980 --> 00:13:46.660 So number one here to kick this off and, um, most likely Andy, this is going to be you. 00:13:46.720 --> 00:13:48.860 This is your, you're, you're kicking off the show right here. 00:13:49.240 --> 00:13:57.240 Most likely to listen to at 2X speed, the Dan Lebitard show, uh, with Stu Gatz. 00:13:58.060 --> 00:13:59.900 Andy, talk to me. 00:14:00.000 --> 00:14:01.340 What, why, why is this? 00:14:01.400 --> 00:14:02.560 What, why, why 2X speed? 00:14:02.640 --> 00:14:03.420 Why do you like this guy? 00:14:03.700 --> 00:14:03.980 Okay. 00:14:04.040 --> 00:14:05.880 So let, let me explain real quick. 00:14:05.880 --> 00:14:08.500 I do a number of other podcasts throughout. 00:14:08.760 --> 00:14:09.960 I do a podcast for our church. 00:14:10.100 --> 00:14:13.520 I do a podcast for another company that I work with called the altar live show. 00:14:14.480 --> 00:14:18.180 And typically my delivery is a little bit faster. 00:14:18.180 --> 00:14:21.500 And so I have to continually tell myself, slow down, slow down, slow down. 00:14:22.100 --> 00:14:25.300 Well, this year in 2021, it was a banner year for me. 00:14:25.380 --> 00:14:29.400 I upped my podcast listening speed to 1.5 X for everything. 00:14:29.500 --> 00:14:34.820 And so in the slow down, slow down, slow down, I'm always trying to speed up, speed up, speed 00:14:34.820 --> 00:14:38.800 up because I'm trying to get through as much information as possible because I think I'm 00:14:38.800 --> 00:14:41.020 a smarter gentleman than I actually am. 00:14:41.060 --> 00:14:43.760 And so I figure, oh, I got to be erudite and listen to my podcast. 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:49.840 Well, the Dan Levitard show is first of all, it's a sports podcast, not a Christian podcast, 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:50.760 fully sports. 00:14:50.840 --> 00:14:51.640 They're based out of Miami. 00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:55.580 So you guys down in Miami can fist pump along with them if you need to. 00:14:56.260 --> 00:15:00.160 Dan Levitard has been around for a thousand years doing podcasts along with this guy, Stu 00:15:00.160 --> 00:15:02.880 Gotts, who's just the most despicable human being in the world. 00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:06.080 But they create some of the best content in the world. 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:11.180 But the problem is, is that they create so much content. 00:15:11.660 --> 00:15:16.040 And so, and they talk so slow sometimes. 00:15:16.040 --> 00:15:19.520 And so it fights all of the slow down, slow down, slow down for me. 00:15:19.580 --> 00:15:23.080 And so when I'm out working out or running or whatever, I want to get through all their 00:15:23.080 --> 00:15:26.360 content because I want to hear everything they have to say, but I don't have the time. 00:15:26.600 --> 00:15:27.420 So what do you do? 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:32.100 You flip on overcast, you turn to the 2X, everything feels a little bit speed up. 00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:36.360 Your brain turns into mush for about the first three weeks while you're doing this. 00:15:37.020 --> 00:15:40.860 And then all of a sudden it starts to make sense and you start to adapt and everything 00:15:40.860 --> 00:15:42.080 starts to sound normal. 00:15:42.600 --> 00:15:45.960 And so now that I'm listening to us talk here, I'm realizing like, man, we're talking 00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:47.240 real, real slow. 00:15:47.380 --> 00:15:48.840 Maybe we need to speed up a little bit. 00:15:49.300 --> 00:15:54.180 The Dan Levitard show has led me to listen to everything in my life at 2X speed. 00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:57.660 And I could not be more thankful to him. 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:01.520 Any other fans, by the way, before I segue, any other fans of Levitard? 00:16:01.520 --> 00:16:02.360 Just in the room? 00:16:02.740 --> 00:16:05.040 Yeah, it's a guilty pleasure. 00:16:05.260 --> 00:16:07.300 I love Stu Gatz so much. 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:08.360 He is despicable. 00:16:08.680 --> 00:16:10.640 He is the worst human being in the world. 00:16:10.840 --> 00:16:11.780 He really is. 00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:13.920 And he plays that character so well. 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:15.100 Yes, he does. 00:16:15.400 --> 00:16:21.080 And so I was doing insurance a few years ago and ended up in Miami during spring break. 00:16:21.160 --> 00:16:23.480 So I literally slept in my car for a week and a half. 00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:27.840 And that's how I made it through was Dan Levitard's Stu Gatz on ESPN. 00:16:28.160 --> 00:16:28.540 So yeah. 00:16:29.060 --> 00:16:33.620 You know, I actually, I can't, I cannot listen to the Levitard show anymore. 00:16:33.840 --> 00:16:34.680 I had to take it. 00:16:34.740 --> 00:16:36.600 I had to remove it from my Overcast account. 00:16:37.060 --> 00:16:38.780 And this is an honest to God truth. 00:16:38.860 --> 00:16:40.360 Don't laugh at me, but you'll laugh at me. 00:16:40.360 --> 00:16:42.720 I have a medical condition. 00:16:42.940 --> 00:16:44.680 It's actually a severe medical condition. 00:16:45.100 --> 00:16:47.520 It's called laughter-induced syncope. 00:16:48.100 --> 00:16:53.360 When I laugh so hard, I actually stop breathing and I pass out. 00:16:53.940 --> 00:16:56.600 Like I have, I've been sitting in this chair. 00:16:56.820 --> 00:16:57.920 I have passed out. 00:16:58.000 --> 00:16:58.580 I have fallen. 00:16:58.720 --> 00:16:59.460 I've hit my head. 00:16:59.560 --> 00:17:02.760 I have had a concussion in the middle of an online Bible study. 00:17:02.860 --> 00:17:05.420 True story going, maybe this is maybe three years ago, pre-COVID. 00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:11.460 And so like when I listened to the Levitard show, the chances of me laughing so hard I pass 00:17:11.460 --> 00:17:16.040 out, increases at such a high level, I almost passed out while driving on the turnpike. 00:17:16.440 --> 00:17:18.500 And it's like, I don't think I can do this anymore. 00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:21.700 I can't, I cannot listen to this guy because it's so funny. 00:17:21.780 --> 00:17:23.360 I just, I can't, I like, I'll die. 00:17:23.800 --> 00:17:24.580 It's literally die. 00:17:25.060 --> 00:17:26.340 Can you sue them for that? 00:17:26.360 --> 00:17:29.700 If you crash your car because you're laughing at their pocket, can you sue them? 00:17:29.780 --> 00:17:30.680 Is that how that works? 00:17:31.160 --> 00:17:33.420 Are you telling me I could have a chunk of Levitard Empire? 00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:38.600 Like I'm not telling anything because we're recording this and it's that red light is on. 00:17:38.600 --> 00:17:40.060 You need to consult your lawyer. 00:17:40.780 --> 00:17:43.380 Yeah, however, there might be something there for you. 00:17:44.140 --> 00:17:45.120 That'll be coming up soon. 00:17:45.220 --> 00:17:46.540 All right, so we're going to shift gears now. 00:17:46.780 --> 00:17:48.620 Number two, that was beautiful. 00:17:49.020 --> 00:17:51.120 Hey, the next one, Tom, this is you. 00:17:51.300 --> 00:17:55.180 Most likely to be added to Jeff's Overcast account. 00:17:55.320 --> 00:17:58.560 Did not know this was even a thing until Tom said, hey, did you know? 00:17:58.980 --> 00:18:01.040 And this is going to be Church Juice. 00:18:01.180 --> 00:18:02.980 So Tom, share a little bit here. 00:18:03.340 --> 00:18:05.800 What do you think and what do you love about Church Juice? 00:18:06.120 --> 00:18:10.680 Well, Church Juice is a kind of a church communications podcast. 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:15.060 They focus on social media stuff and communication stuff. 00:18:15.240 --> 00:18:18.560 And, you know, there's a lot of different podcasts out there, church podcasts. 00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:22.040 And one of my biggest pet peeves is consistency. 00:18:22.040 --> 00:18:26.220 Like you start things and you go gangbusters and you're like, great. 00:18:26.280 --> 00:18:29.460 And then you don't do anything for like months at a time. 00:18:30.440 --> 00:18:34.780 And so with Church Juice, they've been fairly consistent throughout the year, which has been great. 00:18:35.280 --> 00:18:43.880 And they just offer short, like 30-minute episodes where they're encouraging you with practical tips on social media or email marketing. 00:18:44.520 --> 00:18:50.080 And it's like one of the co-hosts is my friend, and Jeff, you know her as well, Jeanette Yates. 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.600 She's fantastic. 00:18:51.740 --> 00:18:54.860 She's from Jacksonville, and she works with Texan Church. 00:18:55.080 --> 00:19:03.640 But they do a great job doing that podcast, encouraging church communicators, again, with practical tips. 00:19:03.700 --> 00:19:04.900 So I really enjoy it. 00:19:05.260 --> 00:19:10.660 Just had a meeting with Jeanette actually like two days ago, and that was the first time I'd heard of the podcast. 00:19:10.800 --> 00:19:13.320 Went and just subscribed right then and there while we were talking. 00:19:13.440 --> 00:19:14.280 It's been awesome so far. 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:16.920 Yeah, Jeanette's a friend. 00:19:17.660 --> 00:19:21.800 By the way, I just told her on Twitter the other day, like, you've got an open invitation. 00:19:22.000 --> 00:19:24.840 Anything you ever want to publish on the Church Digital would love it. 00:19:24.900 --> 00:19:29.400 Love her voice and excited for me to check out the podcast. 00:19:29.540 --> 00:19:30.940 Literally did not know she was doing it. 00:19:30.940 --> 00:19:37.840 The last thing, podcast, that I thought she was doing was the two girls and whatever that thing was that she'd stopped a couple years ago. 00:19:38.060 --> 00:19:38.860 Two church girls. 00:19:39.740 --> 00:19:40.140 Was it? 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:41.860 Two church girls or something like that, right? 00:19:41.980 --> 00:19:42.120 Yeah. 00:19:42.360 --> 00:19:43.880 Yeah, okay, good. 00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:44.360 Cool. 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:46.700 Hey, number three, moving on here. 00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:49.880 This is so good. 00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:52.960 The church that all of us want to go work at. 00:19:53.040 --> 00:19:54.280 Hey, Garrett, this was you. 00:19:54.600 --> 00:19:56.340 Why don't you talk a little bit about this one? 00:19:56.740 --> 00:19:59.320 As I edit the podcast, I see the titles coming up. 00:19:59.440 --> 00:20:02.860 And so I saw this one and I was like, nah, it can't be that easy. 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:07.820 And Jeff finally said, hey, so this podcast is going to be about this. 00:20:08.080 --> 00:20:10.620 And I was like, all right, tell me more. 00:20:11.900 --> 00:20:16.420 And the podcast, the label of it was about cast member church. 00:20:16.420 --> 00:20:21.920 And I was like, are you telling me there is a church devoted solely for cast members? 00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:24.400 My wife and I are Disney fanatics. 00:20:25.100 --> 00:20:26.440 I proposed in Disney. 00:20:26.600 --> 00:20:28.320 We went on our honeymoon in Disney. 00:20:29.040 --> 00:20:32.320 And we even already took our one-year-old to Disney. 00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:34.560 Like we're diehard Disney fans. 00:20:35.520 --> 00:20:38.200 And so when I heard about this, I was like, this is awesome. 00:20:38.700 --> 00:20:54.020 The fact that there's a church, not a physical building, but there is a church that is designed at reaching cast members who are a unique group of individuals who are fatigued, who work long, crazy hours. 00:20:54.320 --> 00:20:58.780 And probably no one relates to them unless you have been one of them or are one of them. 00:20:59.360 --> 00:21:13.280 And so it was just really encouraging as I was sitting there editing the podcast to hear about the team behind the scenes of cast member church and how they just love on a group of people that probably are forgotten a lot of times. 00:21:13.820 --> 00:21:16.500 They're probably too tired to ever think about going to church. 00:21:16.820 --> 00:21:29.740 And so instead, they decided to say, hey, we're going to create a platform where you can invite and engage people right where you're at and maybe get someone to come and join you that would never walk in the doors of a church. 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:32.080 And so it's completely digital. 00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.040 They engage people at home. 00:21:34.320 --> 00:21:37.520 And the cool part is it's cast members all around the world. 00:21:37.920 --> 00:21:45.280 So in case you don't know, there are Disney parks all around the world, and they have people from all of those Disney parks in their group. 00:21:46.120 --> 00:21:48.500 And that was just mind-blowing. 00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:52.100 It was exciting to hear about what they're doing to engage this neat group. 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:53.080 It's a small group. 00:21:53.280 --> 00:21:58.340 It's not – they know this is not going to be the church that's going to have millions of people in it. 00:21:58.500 --> 00:22:04.200 But they set off on a mission and said, look, digitally, we can engage a small group of people. 00:22:04.300 --> 00:22:05.220 It's not open to everyone. 00:22:05.460 --> 00:22:12.920 It's open to people who have that unique background, have that unique ability to relate with each other and be able to say, I know you're tired too. 00:22:14.140 --> 00:22:14.800 Let's talk. 00:22:15.120 --> 00:22:35.160 And just that one-on-one discipleship of being able to relate to people, being able to pour into people one-on-one and not just speak from a platform and listen in an audience, that method of discipleship is going to be a lot more successful in a group of people that are probably too exhausted or probably fall asleep in a one-hour church service in the building. 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:39.900 And so it was just really exciting to hear about it, and I loved every minute of that podcast. 00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.800 By the way, if they're looking for a digital pastor, I'll throw my name in the hat. 00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:45.240 There's a bunch of people. 00:22:45.240 --> 00:22:51.280 If they launch a physical representation of it and they need a production guy, I was like, hey. 00:22:51.860 --> 00:22:54.980 We used to joke about opening a multi-site campus at Disney World. 00:22:55.280 --> 00:23:02.080 And when I literally stumbled across Stephen here, Stephen Barr, and was like, man, you're actually doing this. 00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:03.020 This isn't a joke. 00:23:03.240 --> 00:23:06.040 This is your thing. 00:23:06.440 --> 00:23:07.720 It's an incredible podcast. 00:23:07.860 --> 00:23:12.380 We'll link to it in the show notes as I'm literally wearing a Mickey Mouse shirt on the screen. 00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:16.960 You know, hats off to the creativity with him and that. 00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:18.260 But, hey, let's move on. 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:19.660 Number four. 00:23:20.840 --> 00:23:22.680 We're going to spend a minute on this one. 00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:28.040 Podcast that made me question my early faith years. 00:23:28.040 --> 00:23:31.300 Hey, Andy, we're going to have a long conversation here, but why don't you get us started? 00:23:31.760 --> 00:23:36.880 Everybody in Christendom, I felt like, listened to the rise and fall of Mars Hill from Christianity Today. 00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:45.460 And I know for me, I got saved right around the time that Mark Driscoll was really blowing up, really in the early 2000s. 00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:48.940 And I don't know about you guys, but I was impacted by Mars Hill. 00:23:49.080 --> 00:23:53.060 Not only by Driscoll and his preaching, but by the music. 00:23:53.060 --> 00:23:56.080 I got into ministry as a worship pastor. 00:23:56.140 --> 00:23:57.660 I was a worship pastor for 12 years. 00:23:57.820 --> 00:24:00.200 Mars Hill Worship was doing so many crazy things. 00:24:00.560 --> 00:24:03.860 The band I got saved to was this band called Thrice. 00:24:04.040 --> 00:24:05.740 And the lead singer was Dustin Kensrew. 00:24:05.860 --> 00:24:08.020 And Dustin Kensrew, yeah, he was a worship leader. 00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:10.600 And so there was this weird confluence of things. 00:24:10.700 --> 00:24:15.380 And so I'm listening to this podcast and going, how did we let this happen? 00:24:15.620 --> 00:24:20.180 How, as Christians in the West, did we let some of this happen? 00:24:20.180 --> 00:24:28.900 And I sat back and I started to think about the times that I had been out listening to Mark Driscoll on a podcast and going, that formed my early... 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:33.820 And I don't know about the rest of you guys, and I want to hear input, but that formed a lot of my early faith years. 00:24:34.660 --> 00:24:46.960 And it made me really, I have journal pages full this year after listening to those podcasts and going, man, do I need to rethink X, Y, and Z about what I had been formed on? 00:24:46.960 --> 00:24:53.320 I was a college student, 2007, and I was doing a project for the Emerging Church Movement. 00:24:53.860 --> 00:24:58.820 And so Rob Bell, Doug Padgett, Brian McLaren, and then this dude named Mark Driscoll. 00:24:59.760 --> 00:25:04.340 And it was the first time I heard verse-by-verse Bible teaching in my life. 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.560 I grew up Word of Faith Pentecostal. 00:25:06.640 --> 00:25:07.680 Don't hold that against me. 00:25:07.900 --> 00:25:09.660 So I was floored. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:10.700 I was floored. 00:25:10.700 --> 00:25:18.940 And then a couple of years later in the military, I got stationed out in Tacoma, Washington, about 40 minutes away from the Ballard campus. 00:25:19.520 --> 00:25:25.060 So I ended up traveling there every weekend, got hooked up in a small group. 00:25:25.480 --> 00:25:27.320 I went to church there for a year. 00:25:28.780 --> 00:25:39.140 Actually, I was flying into Kansas City, Missouri this weekend and finished the last episode called Aftermath, and it wrecked me, man. 00:25:39.660 --> 00:25:45.400 I now live in Glendale, Arizona, about 15 miles away from Mark's new church. 00:25:46.360 --> 00:25:52.660 And weird thing, the sale of his church building is going to fund my church plant. 00:25:53.020 --> 00:25:56.360 So interesting tidbit how it's come full circle. 00:25:56.900 --> 00:26:01.460 But I got my call to church planting sitting in Mars Hill Ballard. 00:26:01.940 --> 00:26:11.840 Like, I am where I'm at a lot of because a lot of the good reasons that I'm in ministry is because of Mars Hill. 00:26:12.020 --> 00:26:16.420 And yet, dude, I asked the same question. 00:26:16.500 --> 00:26:19.440 I'm looking inside me going, am I egotistical? 00:26:19.620 --> 00:26:20.640 Am I narcissistic? 00:26:20.940 --> 00:26:24.060 What do I need to do to get that out of me? 00:26:24.060 --> 00:26:25.620 Because I don't want to be that type of leader. 00:26:26.380 --> 00:26:39.060 And I'm afraid as you grow platforms like this, the danger of digital church is I think you're going to start seeing a lot of them be influencers. 00:26:39.940 --> 00:26:41.840 And they're going to gain notoriety. 00:26:42.620 --> 00:26:44.140 And I'm worried about that. 00:26:44.260 --> 00:26:47.160 I know that's one of the inherent dangers of what we do. 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:52.900 And so I'm asking God, how do you just dig out that egotistical narcissism in my heart? 00:26:52.900 --> 00:26:57.600 So that way, when I come across the people, they don't think I'm an a-hole. 00:26:58.260 --> 00:27:01.960 And I don't end up ruining the faith of so many people. 00:27:02.220 --> 00:27:05.840 Some of them, my friends that went to church there were on staff there. 00:27:06.360 --> 00:27:08.920 Well, and I almost wonder, you said something about the influencers. 00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:12.340 I would say that that's already been happening for years. 00:27:12.340 --> 00:27:14.700 And we've just been masking it with other things. 00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:21.260 And so I'm hoping, and I know that Christianity Today, I don't think they were trying to do like a rip-roaring expose. 00:27:22.060 --> 00:27:28.160 But instead, we're trying to smooth out some of the future of the kingdom by looking in the past. 00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:41.820 And so I almost feel like the influencer culture that has been taking over everything, shoe brands onto churches, is something that they're looking at and going, we don't want rock star pastors. 00:27:42.020 --> 00:27:42.820 We don't want that. 00:27:42.980 --> 00:28:05.500 We instead want kind of what we're trying to do here with the Church Digital of let's plant actual kingdom-minded, humble folk all across the world that actually want to reach people for Jesus and not want to platform themselves and make sure that their books get sold and by whatever means necessary and that their Twitter accounts get mentioned and yada, yada, yada. 00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:06.940 This hits home for me. 00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:13.260 I didn't listen to the podcast, and so I wasn't really informed about Mars Hill growing up or anything like that. 00:28:13.340 --> 00:28:24.260 But I will just say what you guys are talking about, the church influencer kind of market and the fact that we all have to have a side hustle that we're known for and we publicize that. 00:28:24.260 --> 00:28:41.020 I know church leaders now who are getting paid by church to do this job but are yet doing something completely different as a side hustle and making money, and I think that's a dangerous line that we're walking right now, and we have to be careful. 00:28:41.840 --> 00:28:50.900 Our online presence, we have a lot of opportunity to make a huge impact for the kingdom, not for the kingdom of Tom, but the kingdom of God. 00:28:51.160 --> 00:28:52.920 So I love this discussion. 00:28:53.120 --> 00:28:55.580 I should probably listen to that podcast. 00:28:56.060 --> 00:28:57.100 It's going to take you a little bit. 00:28:57.260 --> 00:29:04.840 The first five or six episodes are only about an hour long, and then it's a grind, and it's a two-plus hour. 00:29:04.920 --> 00:29:12.020 I mean, you turn it to 1.5x and just let it rip, but it turns into a grind because there's a lot of stuff. 00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:25.320 It's almost like it starts very, very 10,000 feet and pulls back to 30,000 feet as it gives you all the little details, and I'm getting chills thinking about it, but there are some things that were said that I came home. 00:29:25.320 --> 00:29:45.840 I would go out running, and I'd listen to it in the morning, and I'd come back, and I'd come over to my wife, and I'd give her a hug, and I would just tell her, like, hey, if I have ever made you feel like you are less than a human being, like you are less than a partner in this marriage, et cetera, et cetera, please let me know right now for the good of my own faith, for the good of my own testimony right now. 00:29:45.840 --> 00:29:47.540 And, you know, by and large, she would say no. 00:29:47.660 --> 00:30:01.560 Of course, she'd joke and say, yes, you're making me feel whatever, but by and large, it was not, but still, there's that thing inside of us that, as leaders, we want to go, oh, man, am I being a servant leader, or am I being a Mark Driscoll-adjacent leader? 00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:02.380 Yeah. 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:08.060 To be honest, I'm one of those guys, just like Tom was talking about, I haven't listened to it. 00:30:09.820 --> 00:30:11.700 Honestly, for me, it was a trigger. 00:30:11.700 --> 00:30:16.620 Like, I got maybe halfway through the first episode, and I'm like, I don't need this in my life. 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:20.560 You know, I'm not Mark Driscoll, but I've lived that story. 00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.820 I didn't work at Mars Hill, but that's been my past experience. 00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:28.680 And so, for me, it just opened up the can of worms, and I was like, hey, you know what? 00:30:28.960 --> 00:30:32.640 The rest of Christian subculture can enjoy this podcast. 00:30:32.900 --> 00:30:38.620 Hopefully, it's helpful, but I don't need that experience in my life. 00:30:38.820 --> 00:30:43.740 Now, I have heard, somebody told me this, and I don't, Rob Wagner and I, we were actually talking about it. 00:30:44.180 --> 00:30:47.100 Oh, did you see that name drop, Rob Wagner, Casey Underground? 00:30:47.300 --> 00:30:47.780 That was nice. 00:30:47.980 --> 00:30:50.260 Do we need a bell every time it happens? 00:30:50.620 --> 00:30:50.860 Ding! 00:30:52.000 --> 00:30:52.360 Okay. 00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.940 He's like, Jeff, it didn't have the answers. 00:30:58.740 --> 00:31:01.480 Like, they never turned the corner and proposed solutions. 00:31:01.600 --> 00:31:03.260 They just reported the problem. 00:31:03.340 --> 00:31:03.880 I'm curious. 00:31:04.100 --> 00:31:04.980 Would love y'all's take. 00:31:05.340 --> 00:31:06.520 Is that a good thing or a bad thing? 00:31:06.640 --> 00:31:13.980 We were having a conversation on, I do a podcast called The Weekday with my brother that we put out with our church. 00:31:14.260 --> 00:31:17.320 And we were having a conversation about it on that podcast. 00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:22.900 And we came to that same conclusion of, it never gave answers, but that's okay. 00:31:22.900 --> 00:31:28.040 Because I think in the big scheme of things, history books don't give answers either. 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:33.680 But knowing history allows us to see what not to do in certain circumstances. 00:31:33.960 --> 00:31:46.220 And so I think if we are able to form our own opinions and our own ways forward, that's better than having a company or a magazine or a brand dictate, this is how you need to do church going forward. 00:31:46.760 --> 00:31:48.300 Yeah, I would agree with that, Andy. 00:31:48.940 --> 00:31:50.800 I would agree with that very much. 00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:58.340 I think the concern with trying to give answers with something like this is you'll inevitably give the wrong one. 00:31:59.360 --> 00:32:07.340 And the world is built, Tom, you just mentioned the fact that we've got this, you know, we're getting paid to do church. 00:32:07.480 --> 00:32:11.080 But, you know, most of us have to have a side gig to pay the bills. 00:32:11.460 --> 00:32:19.580 And there's a real possibility that we gain more notoriety in our side gig than we do doing the stuff that we do. 00:32:19.700 --> 00:32:22.780 Do we stop doing the kingdom building over here? 00:32:22.860 --> 00:32:23.260 No. 00:32:23.820 --> 00:32:28.880 We just, I think, I think in the influencer model, I don't think it's going away. 00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:35.660 I think that's how, throughout human history, that has been how people interact with each other. 00:32:35.900 --> 00:32:38.020 They put some people on pedestals. 00:32:38.360 --> 00:32:41.820 It's not, it's not immoral. 00:32:42.040 --> 00:32:43.180 I think it's amoral. 00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:51.880 I think what becomes immoral is the person's heart and their inclination towards thinking they're all that in a bag of chips, you know. 00:32:51.980 --> 00:33:07.320 And so I would love to see people intentionally hitch themselves to something less than on purpose so that they can raise the platform of that thing while their platform is being risen. 00:33:07.960 --> 00:33:11.260 I mean, shoot, Rob is one of those guys. 00:33:11.420 --> 00:33:13.340 Like, Rob used to be a megachurch pastor. 00:33:13.680 --> 00:33:21.760 And what he's doing with microchurch, it's intentionally this way because we don't want to move into that space. 00:33:21.760 --> 00:33:30.400 So even as his star is rising in evangelicalism, like, it's all pointing towards Jesus and what he can do through the lives of others. 00:33:30.600 --> 00:33:35.580 And if you are going to have a platform, I would say that's what we should be doing. 00:33:36.100 --> 00:33:43.140 Yeah, I think oftentimes we've, we, the church in 2021, at least here in the West, maybe 2022 is different. 00:33:43.140 --> 00:33:45.500 But I think we've, we've lost sight of, of Christ. 00:33:45.620 --> 00:33:51.400 We've, we're designing systems that are fully operational on their own and they're not even leaving. 00:33:51.400 --> 00:33:53.320 They're not leaving room for the Holy Spirit there. 00:33:53.460 --> 00:33:58.920 We're designing a system so that the Holy Spirit is no longer responsible, was no longer necessary. 00:33:58.920 --> 00:34:01.180 And that, that can be a scary thing. 00:34:01.460 --> 00:34:04.840 Um, I mean, if you really stop and think about it, yeah, it's powerful. 00:34:04.980 --> 00:34:05.720 Yes, it's incredible. 00:34:05.880 --> 00:34:06.680 Yes, it's impressive. 00:34:07.260 --> 00:34:09.620 Uh, but I don't know that it's biblical. 00:34:09.680 --> 00:34:14.920 And so that's some of the challenge and thank you Christianity today was Christianity today, right? 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.080 Yeah. 00:34:15.100 --> 00:34:19.680 Christianity today for, for putting the energy into doing something like that. 00:34:19.680 --> 00:34:25.500 I know that was a, that was a beast and it was controversial and either you loved it or you hated it. 00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:27.040 And they had a lot of good press with it. 00:34:27.080 --> 00:34:31.380 They had a lot of bad press, uh, with it, but, but hopefully once again, 00:34:31.460 --> 00:34:36.440 you know, the history books will, will speak of what happened and hopefully that is on record, 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:39.400 uh, not against Mars Hill, but against all of us. 00:34:39.460 --> 00:34:44.740 The, the plank in all of our eye is nothing compared to the spec, um, that's in, in one. 00:34:44.740 --> 00:34:46.980 And so, you know, thanks for doing that. 00:34:47.320 --> 00:34:51.760 Uh, maybe one day I'll listen to it when I'm in the middle of therapy and what we can use that 00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:54.360 as the springboard to a much deeper conversation. 00:34:54.760 --> 00:34:56.540 Hey, so, so let's get back into it. 00:34:56.580 --> 00:35:00.340 That was maybe, that was maybe the success of 2021. 00:35:01.000 --> 00:35:05.040 Um, uh, at least in, um, you know, podcast Christian realms. 00:35:05.140 --> 00:35:12.880 Let's talk about one of the failures, the biggest swing and a miss of all 2021 podcasting clubhouse. 00:35:12.980 --> 00:35:13.560 That's right. 00:35:13.800 --> 00:35:16.580 Clubhouse, uh, Tom, actually, no, Chesley, Chesley. 00:35:16.660 --> 00:35:18.220 Why don't, why don't you talk a little bit about this one? 00:35:18.600 --> 00:35:18.820 Yeah. 00:35:19.060 --> 00:35:27.240 So pod, uh, I love podcasting and I thought clubhouse was going to blow up and I was on there every other day. 00:35:27.240 --> 00:35:29.080 And I'm like, dude, you got to check this out. 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:33.520 Uh, I love the idea of you had to know somebody to get there. 00:35:33.580 --> 00:35:37.680 I think it's probably because of my nostalgia with Facebook and how that happened. 00:35:37.680 --> 00:35:44.580 Uh, my little sister, uh, was the one that introduced me to it cause she did some, uh, attorney work for them. 00:35:44.580 --> 00:35:45.760 And I'm like, this is amazing. 00:35:45.760 --> 00:35:47.540 So I got to go on pretty early. 00:35:48.200 --> 00:35:51.740 Um, and then it just didn't take off. 00:35:51.740 --> 00:36:00.480 And probably because guys like me got too busy to be on there and then trying to search through relevant conversations, uh, for yourself. 00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:02.960 And it's just like, I don't got the time, you know? 00:36:03.180 --> 00:36:06.620 And some of these people's opinion, they probably shouldn't have one. 00:36:07.580 --> 00:36:26.400 So it, me included, me included, you know, and, uh, I think clubhouse had a good idea, but I don't think it was helpful in the overall term of how do we use this as a church leader, um, other than building my own platform. 00:36:26.400 --> 00:36:30.960 And then you had Twitter and Facebook and all these other guys coming, Hey, we can beat you. 00:36:30.960 --> 00:36:33.380 And their platforms overtook clubhouse pretty quickly. 00:36:33.380 --> 00:36:36.200 And I think, well, we're like, yes, this is the future. 00:36:36.200 --> 00:36:39.120 And it wasn't, we, we didn't get that right. 00:36:39.400 --> 00:36:43.780 Well, it was, it was the future, but they just, they didn't capitalize on it. 00:36:43.780 --> 00:36:51.340 Like they couldn't figure out how to get the audience and just Twitter just jumped them and, and, and Facebook, you know, just rolled out their, their audio. 00:36:51.440 --> 00:36:52.820 I like an audio conversation. 00:36:52.820 --> 00:37:00.020 And I think it's a powerful tool, uh, but it just, they, they couldn't, they couldn't corner the market and they let some other people in. 00:37:00.020 --> 00:37:01.380 And it, let's just be honest. 00:37:01.520 --> 00:37:05.080 It took them forever to get Android on. 00:37:05.080 --> 00:37:07.760 Like I'm why I don't, I don't know programming. 00:37:07.880 --> 00:37:19.780 I don't know what's going on, but when you only have a sector of the industry and you're having to like exclude a major portion of mobile users, like, of course that just was the door wide open. 00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:27.880 I have no idea what took so long, but I think it would be a completely different conversation if Android actually was able to, to come in. 00:37:28.180 --> 00:37:31.240 Tom, you've had, uh, you've had some success, right? 00:37:31.320 --> 00:37:34.020 With, with, uh, Twitter was Twitter spaces. 00:37:34.180 --> 00:37:35.360 What does that look like for you now? 00:37:35.780 --> 00:37:38.740 Well, I'm, I'm reevaluating some things on Twitter spaces. 00:37:38.740 --> 00:37:43.160 Uh, but I, I will second the clubhouse clubhouse is a great idea. 00:37:43.400 --> 00:37:53.780 I think just a simple fact that social networks already established networks like Twitter and now Facebook, um, are really building into it. 00:37:53.820 --> 00:38:00.740 I think, you know, everyone, everyone I see on Twitter now jokes, Hey, remember when we did clubhouse and everyone just kind of laughs. 00:38:00.740 --> 00:38:12.640 It's kind of funny to see that, but, um, I like with Twitter spaces, I think there's some real cool opportunities there again with, um, you could do a digital Bible study, a simple Bible study that you could do on there. 00:38:12.740 --> 00:38:17.700 You could do a discussion group about stuff that's happening online and with online ministry. 00:38:18.200 --> 00:38:22.960 Um, and the way Twitter is updating it pretty regularly. 00:38:23.260 --> 00:38:28.780 And so, um, they've really kind of, they've figured out ways to schedule stuff. 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:33.080 They figured out ways that people can pay for some things as well on it. 00:38:33.160 --> 00:38:35.860 So I think Twitter spaces provides a cool opportunity. 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:40.940 I think 2022 will be a really big year for Twitter spaces as more and more people start doing it. 00:38:40.940 --> 00:38:43.820 I start seeing it now on Twitter at the very top. 00:38:43.900 --> 00:38:47.440 I start seeing it more and more often on my, on my Twitter feed. 00:38:47.520 --> 00:38:49.660 Has anybody tried the Facebook one yet? 00:38:50.280 --> 00:38:51.640 It's in beta on my account. 00:38:51.720 --> 00:38:52.100 I'm just curious. 00:38:52.200 --> 00:38:53.640 I haven't had a chance to kick the tires on it. 00:38:54.100 --> 00:38:54.720 Yeah, it's in beta. 00:38:54.980 --> 00:38:56.860 It was really laggy when I opened it up. 00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:59.960 Well, I mean, no, Meta's got a bunch of money. 00:39:00.040 --> 00:39:03.020 I'm sure they'll, they'll throw something at it, you know, to get that cleaned up. 00:39:03.160 --> 00:39:06.260 I was thinking it fits with the Twitter's framework. 00:39:06.620 --> 00:39:12.960 So like Twitter's framework makes complete sense for, for what they're doing with Twitter spaces. 00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:20.900 So I think it'll, I think it'll take off there because it's just aligned with who they are as a, as a brand and an organization. 00:39:20.900 --> 00:39:22.040 So that's pretty cool. 00:39:22.140 --> 00:39:23.500 Unlike Periscope. 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:24.360 Pour one out, man. 00:39:24.440 --> 00:39:25.760 Pour one out for Periscope. 00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:28.340 Rest in power. 00:39:28.760 --> 00:39:29.400 All right. 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:30.660 Moving on. 00:39:31.240 --> 00:39:35.720 Most likely to inspire Tom Pounder to kill someone. 00:39:36.520 --> 00:39:38.260 This is, this is a fun one. 00:39:38.300 --> 00:39:39.400 This one hits close to home. 00:39:39.800 --> 00:39:41.340 Tom, you want to share a little bit about this one? 00:39:41.700 --> 00:39:43.060 Well, it's not to kill someone. 00:39:43.200 --> 00:39:45.500 It's to solve a crime or solve a mystery. 00:39:45.720 --> 00:39:47.660 You know, I mean, I don't want to kill him. 00:39:48.120 --> 00:39:48.480 Okay. 00:39:49.060 --> 00:39:54.280 Listen, I'm really like going all the way back to serials, season one of Serial. 00:39:54.560 --> 00:40:02.380 I really got hooked on the true crime podcast and these unsolved cases or, or questions, questionable cases. 00:40:02.780 --> 00:40:04.800 So I'm really into that kind of stuff. 00:40:05.040 --> 00:40:13.680 And one I discovered, it started in 2019, but it wrapped up, actually, no, it started in 2020, wrapped up last year. 00:40:13.900 --> 00:40:15.320 Well, this year, 2021. 00:40:15.920 --> 00:40:19.420 And it's called Your Own Backyard. 00:40:19.800 --> 00:40:23.360 And it, it was a guy, just an average Joe. 00:40:23.600 --> 00:40:28.780 He wasn't even a podcaster or anything like that, but he just started looking into the disappearance of Kristen Smart. 00:40:28.780 --> 00:40:36.100 And Kristen Smart disappeared one night after a party in 1996, right around, that was my junior year in college. 00:40:36.100 --> 00:40:38.660 And so she was kind of right around my age. 00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:42.020 And I remember the attention it got nationwide. 00:40:42.800 --> 00:40:44.080 She just disappeared. 00:40:44.480 --> 00:40:47.420 And this guy just started digging into it a little bit more. 00:40:47.500 --> 00:40:51.260 It was a kind of a cold case, even though they said it was never a cold case. 00:40:51.280 --> 00:40:52.120 It really was. 00:40:52.300 --> 00:40:53.960 They weren't really making any progress. 00:40:54.620 --> 00:40:56.420 This guy solved it. 00:40:56.420 --> 00:41:08.840 I mean, this guy solved the disappearance and he got, he got the police and everybody, they arrested two people who were, they were always known to have been the people. 00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:18.620 Everyone always suspected them to be the people, but the, the police had a bunch of different missteps and, and errors and some prosecution stuff and everything like that. 00:41:18.620 --> 00:41:21.960 But I mean, they were able to arrest the guys and the guys are on trial. 00:41:22.100 --> 00:41:25.240 They'll be on trial this year, um, for her murder. 00:41:25.500 --> 00:41:27.080 And, uh, it was fascinating. 00:41:27.220 --> 00:41:29.640 It was a completely fascinating. 00:41:29.820 --> 00:41:35.680 And so I just, I like when I, I binged all the, the episodes I missed and then I started listening to it regularly. 00:41:35.940 --> 00:41:37.060 It was, it was awesome. 00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:39.000 I have a confession to make though. 00:41:39.260 --> 00:41:40.020 You were the guy. 00:41:40.320 --> 00:41:42.360 No, I'm a serial killer though. 00:41:42.360 --> 00:41:45.920 So I try to down a bowl of Reese's puffs once a week. 00:41:46.020 --> 00:41:47.060 So yeah. 00:41:47.520 --> 00:41:48.760 Waiting for the punchline. 00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:50.760 I, I feel a lot smarter now. 00:41:50.840 --> 00:41:51.020 Yeah. 00:41:51.140 --> 00:41:52.000 Well, well done. 00:41:52.220 --> 00:41:53.500 Tom, did you watch only murders? 00:41:53.940 --> 00:41:54.300 No. 00:41:54.540 --> 00:41:54.800 Okay. 00:41:54.920 --> 00:41:55.860 Only murders in the building. 00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:56.720 I think it was on. 00:41:56.940 --> 00:41:57.600 Oh, oh yeah. 00:41:57.640 --> 00:41:57.800 Yeah. 00:41:57.860 --> 00:41:58.480 Oh no, no, no. 00:41:58.540 --> 00:41:58.920 I did. 00:41:59.020 --> 00:41:59.700 I did watch that. 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:03.160 I know it's not, I know it's not podcast, but Steve Martin, Martin Short. 00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:03.620 Come on. 00:42:03.820 --> 00:42:05.380 The two best comics ever. 00:42:05.940 --> 00:42:07.600 Oh, they were, they were really funny. 00:42:07.900 --> 00:42:08.740 They were really funny. 00:42:08.840 --> 00:42:10.140 That was a great thing. 00:42:10.140 --> 00:42:14.420 Do y'all, does anybody else like get into the true crime kind of podcast stuff? 00:42:14.540 --> 00:42:19.460 I was big into serial season one, season two, maybe. 00:42:19.960 --> 00:42:22.360 And, and I just, I like, I've tried to listen to some of this other stuff. 00:42:22.440 --> 00:42:24.060 I can't, I can't get into it. 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:26.160 You know, my wife likes that stuff. 00:42:26.180 --> 00:42:29.360 And then she has nightmares and she thinks somebody is going to come into the house and 00:42:29.360 --> 00:42:30.520 break, break in. 00:42:30.580 --> 00:42:32.880 I'm like, quit listening and watching. 00:42:34.220 --> 00:42:35.560 Like, come on. 00:42:35.620 --> 00:42:35.800 Yeah. 00:42:35.800 --> 00:42:39.800 So I don't know if anybody else struggles with that in our house, like we do in our house, 00:42:39.900 --> 00:42:41.440 but Hey, yeah, that's my wife too. 00:42:41.540 --> 00:42:44.100 She could, she feels like she could be a private eye. 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:47.600 And I don't, I don't know that that's how that works. 00:42:51.540 --> 00:42:53.660 But she'll listen to those and watch the whole thing. 00:42:53.720 --> 00:42:55.740 And yeah, I think you got to go to school for that, darling. 00:42:56.140 --> 00:42:56.420 All right. 00:42:56.420 --> 00:42:58.280 Well, Tom, don't kill anybody. 00:42:58.360 --> 00:42:58.640 Okay. 00:42:59.020 --> 00:42:59.420 2022. 00:43:00.020 --> 00:43:03.760 Like no, no serial killer, Tom, um, running around DC. 00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:05.600 It'll take you an hour to get anywhere. 00:43:05.980 --> 00:43:07.320 It takes an hour to get away. 00:43:07.800 --> 00:43:08.700 Don't, don't, don't do it. 00:43:08.700 --> 00:43:10.100 Okay. 00:43:10.100 --> 00:43:13.660 I want to, I want to solve this series, not, not kill people. 00:43:14.320 --> 00:43:17.860 The FBI is going to get ahold of this podcast and Tom's going on a watch list. 00:43:17.980 --> 00:43:19.520 I guarantee it in 22. 00:43:19.700 --> 00:43:20.620 Like it's, it's a thing. 00:43:21.180 --> 00:43:22.100 All right. 00:43:22.240 --> 00:43:24.460 Um, Hey, moving on. 00:43:24.520 --> 00:43:25.380 Uh, here we go. 00:43:25.520 --> 00:43:31.840 The smartest guy to ever appear on a TCD podcast that isn't named Ed Stetzer. 00:43:32.520 --> 00:43:34.860 Uh, Garrett, this is you, right? 00:43:35.020 --> 00:43:35.940 What, what, what are you thinking? 00:43:36.260 --> 00:43:40.300 One of the podcasts that I really liked was, uh, one about video gamers. 00:43:40.300 --> 00:43:41.540 So I'm a video gamer myself. 00:43:42.020 --> 00:43:46.000 Um, I, I, I've got a community of guys that we, we play video games. 00:43:46.060 --> 00:43:46.520 We sync up. 00:43:46.600 --> 00:43:51.460 We, we probably have a group of 20 of us that, uh, are all in a text thread and we'll just 00:43:51.460 --> 00:43:53.340 check out like, Hey, anyone on tonight? 00:43:53.660 --> 00:43:57.320 And so like, I'm, I'm all in on the video game side and, and so is my wife. 00:43:57.340 --> 00:43:59.240 Actually, my wife grew up playing legends of Zelda. 00:43:59.240 --> 00:44:03.580 So like OG, like video games, like, like nerd, nerd video games. 00:44:03.580 --> 00:44:08.020 And I make fun of her that she, she may be more nerdy than I am, but, uh, so we're a video 00:44:08.020 --> 00:44:08.580 game family. 00:44:08.580 --> 00:44:13.380 And so when I heard this podcast talking about how there is someone that decided to create 00:44:13.380 --> 00:44:20.260 a church just for video gamers, like literally goes out into video game lobbies to church 00:44:20.260 --> 00:44:25.780 people, to bring the gospel, to talk people through, to counsel, to do all these things 00:44:25.780 --> 00:44:31.640 in lobbies, where if you've played video games, you know, church isn't usually what's talked 00:44:31.640 --> 00:44:32.540 about in those lobbies. 00:44:32.760 --> 00:44:35.080 Those lobbies are usually a lot more toxic. 00:44:36.160 --> 00:44:40.620 And so like to, to hear about someone that wanted to step into that toxic realm and say, 00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:45.620 you know what, I'm going to redeem this toxic realm and I'm going to use it to be able 00:44:45.620 --> 00:44:46.320 to bring some good. 00:44:46.840 --> 00:44:48.460 And that was really encouraging a lot. 00:44:48.540 --> 00:44:54.840 A lot of times video gamers use video games as an outlet because it's not a space. 00:44:55.000 --> 00:44:57.020 They don't feel like they have another comfortable space. 00:44:57.520 --> 00:45:02.860 And so a lot of times video gamers are also introverts, meaning they're not naturally going 00:45:02.860 --> 00:45:06.780 to bring up anything that they're either struggling with something they're going through. 00:45:07.500 --> 00:45:14.120 And so hearing this just, it was, it was really encouraging because it was someone that was 00:45:14.120 --> 00:45:18.840 reaching out to a, once again, a niche group of people, a, an intentional group of people. 00:45:19.020 --> 00:45:23.560 This isn't going to reach everyone, but a group of people that probably often are forgotten 00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:30.680 about or often are, aren't intentionally sought after because they're not going to seek someone. 00:45:30.840 --> 00:45:34.000 They're not going to seek someone to say, Hey, I want to come to your church or, Hey, I'm 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:35.740 struggling with this when you talk to me about it. 00:45:36.740 --> 00:45:38.320 But they'll talk in the video game lobby. 00:45:39.000 --> 00:45:45.660 And so hearing about, uh, Jade's actions and what he does and, and, and part of, of what 00:45:45.660 --> 00:45:48.980 like he does daily was really encouraging. 00:45:48.980 --> 00:45:54.260 And it was exciting for me as a video gamer, as a follower of Christ, like it was, it was 00:45:54.260 --> 00:45:56.720 pretty cool to hear how those two merged. 00:45:57.180 --> 00:45:58.880 And so that was really, really exciting for me. 00:45:59.420 --> 00:45:59.540 Yeah. 00:45:59.700 --> 00:46:04.000 The metaverse and some of the ministry that's happening in that space, video games, virtual 00:46:04.000 --> 00:46:04.460 reality. 00:46:04.620 --> 00:46:10.460 I mean, that's, it's crazy to see the number of people right now that are being those, those 00:46:10.460 --> 00:46:15.480 missionaries, uh, like, like Jade is, you know, I can think of, uh, pastor Susie's done, 00:46:15.480 --> 00:46:19.720 done a lot in that space, uh, pastor Jay Poe, you know, and when you're in the metaverse, 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:24.100 you got cool nicknames, uh, you know, like I, I haven't, I haven't gotten to that, that 00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:29.040 level yet, but, uh, I mean, guys that, that are literally, we just did a podcast conversation 00:46:29.040 --> 00:46:29.880 with a guy named Stuart. 00:46:29.880 --> 00:46:31.080 He's like 22. 00:46:31.480 --> 00:46:38.400 And he's like, yeah, I go into, uh, VR chat, uh, which is like the cesspool of the metaverse. 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.200 It's, it's like AOL, uh, chat rooms in the nineties. 00:46:42.200 --> 00:46:48.440 It's estimated that 40 to 50% of people are having, you know, virtual sex in VR chat, 00:46:48.440 --> 00:46:51.280 um, at any given time in private rooms. 00:46:51.680 --> 00:46:57.400 And he's going in there to, to do ministry, uh, literally walking into the, the, the metaverse 00:46:57.400 --> 00:47:03.180 red room district and guys like, uh, Jade, who's, who's been championing this idea for years, 00:47:03.180 --> 00:47:04.580 really setting that up. 00:47:04.580 --> 00:47:08.640 And if you've ever, if you've ever met him, if you ever had a conversation, a dude's 20 00:47:08.640 --> 00:47:11.920 something, I mean, I, I can never actually get him to tell me how old he is. 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:14.360 I think I would guesstimate probably around 26. 00:47:14.840 --> 00:47:14.920 Yeah. 00:47:14.920 --> 00:47:16.720 He just turned 26, 26. 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:17.000 Okay. 00:47:17.200 --> 00:47:17.520 Yeah. 00:47:17.560 --> 00:47:23.100 And it's, uh, like the, the, uh, the stuff that comes out of his mouth, like in, in the 00:47:23.100 --> 00:47:27.380 way that he sees the world and his worldview and his perspective, it's, it's like, man, 00:47:27.420 --> 00:47:31.120 dude, you're really, you see the world different than everybody else. 00:47:31.120 --> 00:47:32.640 And that doesn't make him wrong. 00:47:32.860 --> 00:47:37.200 That just makes him further ahead because the stuff that he's talking about in the world 00:47:37.200 --> 00:47:41.480 that he's seeing is the world that we're going to, uh, we, the rest of us, we just haven't 00:47:41.480 --> 00:47:42.600 figured it out yet. 00:47:42.960 --> 00:47:46.800 Uh, and so love having him involved in that. 00:47:46.860 --> 00:47:49.640 And yes, Garrett Silji did not understand the assignment. 00:47:49.880 --> 00:47:51.660 He pulled a December podcast. 00:47:52.140 --> 00:47:54.560 So we'll, we'll, we'll, we'll leave it in. 00:47:54.560 --> 00:47:58.760 Uh, but, but at the heart of this, you know, I, I, well, frankly, you know, we got to say 00:47:58.760 --> 00:48:00.660 Jate's name on the podcast. 00:48:00.900 --> 00:48:01.860 I'm embarrassed. 00:48:02.180 --> 00:48:05.200 I am embarrassed that we did not have Jade on the podcast in 21. 00:48:05.620 --> 00:48:10.620 Like that, when, when that came to, to surface, uh, Garrett, I was, I was shocked. 00:48:10.780 --> 00:48:14.920 I, you know, I've had him speak at a number of cohorts, worked with him in other areas. 00:48:14.920 --> 00:48:16.280 And maybe that's the excuse. 00:48:16.280 --> 00:48:19.760 I was just, you know, working with him in physical space and I never thought about doing 00:48:19.760 --> 00:48:20.520 it on the podcast. 00:48:20.940 --> 00:48:25.960 Uh, but Jate, if you're listening out there, thanks for like being the rock star, the humble 00:48:25.960 --> 00:48:28.620 rock star that you are right now and keep. 00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:30.820 Keep championing the things that you're doing. 00:48:31.260 --> 00:48:34.960 Well, Hey, and that's going to get us to the last one. 00:48:34.960 --> 00:48:42.040 And, and with the church digital podcast within 21, we've had a phenomenal guest list of people 00:48:42.040 --> 00:48:48.000 coming along the, uh, the Dave Ferguson's, the Peyton Jones, Jared and Ann Roth, uh, uh, 00:48:48.000 --> 00:48:52.060 Matt Engel, Jason Morris, Jeff hook, Rob Wagner, Ray DeArmas. 00:48:52.200 --> 00:48:56.040 I kind of feel like we need to pour one out for Ray that he's not, wasn't able to join us 00:48:56.040 --> 00:49:00.480 and so proud of what he's doing, uh, through the, um, medical technician. 00:49:00.480 --> 00:49:04.520 And then I just actually, I spent, I spent like almost half an hour with him yesterday 00:49:04.520 --> 00:49:06.780 on the phone, just kind of catching up with where he's in life. 00:49:06.940 --> 00:49:11.540 Uh, the Greg Atkinson's, the pastor Susie's, Justin Murph, Matt Anderson, Mindy Quack, 00:49:11.600 --> 00:49:12.980 Caliguire, Jay Cranda. 00:49:13.060 --> 00:49:18.000 Like there's been a ridiculous amount of smart people, uh, a lot of wisdom that's come through 00:49:18.000 --> 00:49:24.820 this podcast in 21, but, but for me, really like the, the, the award for the podcast that 00:49:24.820 --> 00:49:30.920 still keeps me up at night, uh, that I still can't get this out of my head, uh, is Sam 00:49:30.920 --> 00:49:31.360 George. 00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:32.800 And it's episode one 20. 00:49:32.900 --> 00:49:34.920 We'll include all these links in the show notes. 00:49:34.920 --> 00:49:39.320 I know Chesley, uh, you know, he and I have talked about this Sam George conversation several 00:49:39.320 --> 00:49:47.600 times, um, dude is a, is a missiologist, um, a, and he's from India and it has his, once 00:49:47.600 --> 00:49:52.560 again, his worldview and, and the, the research and the understanding that he still understands 00:49:52.560 --> 00:49:55.260 at a global level is ridiculous. 00:49:55.260 --> 00:49:56.260 And it was funny. 00:49:56.320 --> 00:49:59.460 I, I had a introductory conversation with him. 00:49:59.460 --> 00:50:02.080 It was meant to be just like, Hey, how are you doing? 00:50:02.180 --> 00:50:05.860 Would love to, you know, talk with you some more about some things at a global level. 00:50:06.040 --> 00:50:07.780 And I just went on my zoom. 00:50:08.120 --> 00:50:11.280 I like my, my, my, all my, all my zoom calls are automatically recorded. 00:50:11.780 --> 00:50:16.760 Um, other than I know real reason, just kind of always just had it default to record. 00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:21.520 And, um, I had basically an hour long conversation with this guy. 00:50:21.640 --> 00:50:23.460 It was supposed to be 15 minutes. 00:50:23.640 --> 00:50:29.260 And instead of like the introductory stuff, he just dove in and it was like, we were drinking 00:50:29.260 --> 00:50:36.820 from the fire hydrant, uh, trying to understand, um, the potential of what digital can be in 00:50:36.820 --> 00:50:37.660 the global realm. 00:50:38.080 --> 00:50:39.580 And it was, was funny. 00:50:39.700 --> 00:50:42.020 I, and the thing, this is the part that keeps me up at night. 00:50:42.340 --> 00:50:45.100 Like I, I was, he's like, well, what do you do, Jeff? 00:50:45.100 --> 00:50:47.300 And I started talking about my, my digital. 00:50:47.300 --> 00:50:50.260 I started talking about digital only church planting. 00:50:50.260 --> 00:50:53.940 Some of the things that we were doing, this is like early 21, maybe March or April. 00:50:54.540 --> 00:51:00.680 And, um, and, and, and he says at some point later on, he's like, Hey Jeff, all that, all 00:51:00.680 --> 00:51:03.980 that stuff that you're doing with digital, uh, it's too small. 00:51:04.440 --> 00:51:09.420 You, you, you are a drop in the ocean of what digital can be. 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:10.840 You need to think much bigger. 00:51:11.500 --> 00:51:15.020 And I, I, honest to God, I was like, wait, wait, what? 00:51:15.780 --> 00:51:17.320 Like, no, no. 00:51:17.420 --> 00:51:20.620 Do you not know everything that I'm, I'm like doing, but it's like, it's like, you're just, 00:51:20.620 --> 00:51:24.080 you're, you're just scratching the surface of, of what can be. 00:51:24.380 --> 00:51:29.520 And so honestly, for, for y'all out there that are listening, remember and, and realize 00:51:29.520 --> 00:51:36.200 with me that the stuff that we are doing now is just scratching the surface of what digital 00:51:36.200 --> 00:51:36.780 can be. 00:51:36.780 --> 00:51:42.880 And, and seeing things like Zuckerberg's meta announcement, seeing things like, um, the 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:48.940 churches that are being successful in this digital and meta space, um, the movement of 00:51:48.940 --> 00:51:54.300 what's happening globally, where people in Iran are literally being discipled. 00:51:54.380 --> 00:51:58.580 And are bringing others to Christ via WhatsApp there. 00:51:58.580 --> 00:52:06.040 We're doing evangelism training via WhatsApp because in Iran, digital's all they have, and 00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:08.760 they're seeing borderline revival happening as a result. 00:52:08.900 --> 00:52:14.420 We were, we, we haven't figured this out here in, in, in the West and in America. 00:52:14.420 --> 00:52:20.900 And we, there's opportunities for us to learn so much in, in, in the months and years ahead. 00:52:21.180 --> 00:52:24.680 Uh, and so, man, I just, I want that to be the challenge of, of 2022. 00:52:25.320 --> 00:52:30.480 Like there's an opportunity for us to turn the corner, to learn something in this season. 00:52:30.480 --> 00:52:35.020 Um, and we, that we haven't done before. 00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:38.860 It takes a little bit of humility, takes a little bit of releasing control. 00:52:39.060 --> 00:52:42.180 And those are two things that are very hard for the church. 00:52:42.320 --> 00:52:45.740 Uh, if you can fall back on that Mars Hill conversation we had earlier, as evidence of 00:52:45.740 --> 00:52:45.940 that. 00:52:46.220 --> 00:52:52.880 Uh, but at the heart, um, we have to, in order to allow the spirit to have the ability to 00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:55.140 control this thing and to write the ship. 00:52:55.260 --> 00:52:59.480 So, yeah, and I know Chesley, you know, I, did you have any, any thoughts or comments on, 00:52:59.600 --> 00:53:02.080 on, on that Sam George, you remember much from that? 00:53:02.600 --> 00:53:03.340 Yeah, I do. 00:53:03.520 --> 00:53:08.160 Uh, and you know, you, you like threw me out a couple of books that I like read in the next 00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:09.420 two days because of it. 00:53:09.420 --> 00:53:16.040 But, um, just thinking about his conversations, uh, about the third culture and how there's 00:53:16.040 --> 00:53:19.900 a third culture way of getting ready to emerge has already started. 00:53:19.900 --> 00:53:22.460 Uh, I think it's going to crest in the next 10 years. 00:53:22.800 --> 00:53:29.820 Basically what that means is there are a lot of kids that have multicultural expressions that 00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:30.860 they were born into. 00:53:31.240 --> 00:53:37.060 And out of that, they relate to the world a very different way, uh, than, than those of 00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:42.840 us that are first culture, which is just, I'm, I'm Anglo, I'm American, I'm a male like that. 00:53:42.920 --> 00:53:43.600 That's what I know. 00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:50.600 Um, I think if you look at the way the digital world has operated in the last 10 years, especially 00:53:50.600 --> 00:53:56.600 with my kids, there's going to be this new, or, and it is already emerging, this new culture 00:53:56.600 --> 00:54:04.300 emerging where you're going to see, um, cultural streams intersect in a way that they've never 00:54:04.300 --> 00:54:05.400 intersected before. 00:54:06.000 --> 00:54:12.920 Um, I, I can, I see like, uh, we're seeing an emergence of Asian cultures becoming more 00:54:12.920 --> 00:54:13.700 predominant. 00:54:13.780 --> 00:54:15.220 I think that's going to continue. 00:54:15.220 --> 00:54:23.660 Um, obviously the last two years for America has brought out some, uh, some, some need for 00:54:23.660 --> 00:54:24.840 racial reconciliation. 00:54:25.200 --> 00:54:27.900 And we're going to continue to see that. 00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:33.060 So that conversation in and of itself that Sam began to talk about was very helpful, but 00:54:33.060 --> 00:54:40.100 the other piece of it is the Ecclesia and diaspora, uh, and how this is the first time in human 00:54:40.100 --> 00:54:44.160 history where we can be gathered and scattered simultaneously. 00:54:44.840 --> 00:54:47.720 Like the implications of that is huge. 00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:55.620 I, I think when I look back at how Paul operated, I think Paul wouldn't have sat here and debated 00:54:55.620 --> 00:54:56.320 theology. 00:54:56.540 --> 00:55:02.020 He would have jumped in with everything he's got to go reach people that need Jesus that 00:55:02.020 --> 00:55:07.340 would never step foot in an institution because he understood what it was to be the Ecclesia 00:55:07.340 --> 00:55:10.700 in, in a space and enemy, enemy territory. 00:55:10.960 --> 00:55:16.940 And he understood the mission that called us to go and make disciples of all nations. 00:55:16.940 --> 00:55:18.840 And so I'm really excited about that. 00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:20.740 I think Sam hit it right on the head there. 00:55:21.160 --> 00:55:21.280 Yeah. 00:55:21.340 --> 00:55:25.780 It's, it's that it's the, the here in America, like we really understand the Ecclesia. 00:55:26.060 --> 00:55:28.080 We really are passionate about the gathering. 00:55:28.380 --> 00:55:33.160 Don't, don't, uh, abandon the gathering Hebrews 10, 25, 10, somewhere around there. 00:55:33.160 --> 00:55:35.700 You know, I just, I have that verse quoted at me. 00:55:35.780 --> 00:55:39.580 It almost feels like weekly as a reason to not do digital. 00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:46.560 But what's fascinating is the diaspora, the, the breaking of that gathering, the, the spreading 00:55:46.560 --> 00:55:47.400 of it. 00:55:47.520 --> 00:55:49.720 This is actually where God moves. 00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:56.560 And this is the, this is the challenge of, of digital, um, is to, to break into spread. 00:55:56.700 --> 00:55:59.720 Now diaspora in itself alone is not good. 00:55:59.720 --> 00:56:05.980 The diaspora needs to break the Ecclesia in order to create new Ecclesias. 00:56:05.980 --> 00:56:11.760 We need the separation of the current gathering to create more gatherings. 00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:17.940 And through that break, we're allowing God to move through us as we're walking, literally 00:56:17.940 --> 00:56:23.280 as we're going and in creating those new Ecclesia, those new environments around. 00:56:24.080 --> 00:56:28.840 And so this is where I think digital really has an opportunity to fit in, to allow the 00:56:28.840 --> 00:56:35.620 diasporatic movements digitally, to allow a recreation of, of new Ecclesias, digitally, 00:56:35.820 --> 00:56:36.780 physically, and digitally. 00:56:37.040 --> 00:56:41.100 And this may be a radical mindset, which is honestly, it's a lot of the stuff that we 00:56:41.100 --> 00:56:45.480 want to work with on the digital church network, which is a whole other conversation for another 00:56:45.480 --> 00:56:45.760 day. 00:56:45.760 --> 00:56:51.960 But I will say this 2022, uh, is, is going to be an exciting year, uh, towards the digital 00:56:51.960 --> 00:56:52.740 church. 00:56:53.120 --> 00:56:57.440 Um, where we are leaning in through the church digital, we are exploring new things through 00:56:57.440 --> 00:56:58.500 the digital church network. 00:56:58.500 --> 00:57:02.340 And there's other stuff that, you know, I'm not even able to talk about right now. 00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:06.700 It's just so impactful of, of what's happening on, on the road ahead. 00:57:06.700 --> 00:57:10.520 So, Hey, listen, you're going to, you're going to see these guys through the church digital 00:57:10.520 --> 00:57:11.560 through content. 00:57:11.560 --> 00:57:15.280 You're going to, you're going to hear them on podcasts and YouTube and, and all sorts 00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:15.960 of awesome stuff. 00:57:15.960 --> 00:57:21.540 But we are excited, uh, to serve churches like yours and, and help your church understand 00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:26.340 digital, understand fidgetal, understand multiplication, understand content, understand 00:57:26.340 --> 00:57:32.100 influencer, understand production, understand the basics of this stuff from, from top to 00:57:32.100 --> 00:57:32.360 bottom. 00:57:32.360 --> 00:57:34.880 And I didn't even get to the mental health and some of the other things that, that we're 00:57:34.880 --> 00:57:37.460 hitting with some people that, that aren't in this room. 00:57:37.620 --> 00:57:43.060 So it's going to be an exciting season, but we're going to wrap some of this audio, some 00:57:43.060 --> 00:57:47.980 of these contents, some of these, these channels have been heavily influential in our 21s. 00:57:47.980 --> 00:57:50.220 And those of you who are out there, thank you for that. 00:57:50.340 --> 00:57:56.440 By the way, we will include all the links in the show notes for all of these podcast episodes 00:57:56.440 --> 00:57:57.980 or to subscribe to the podcast. 00:57:57.980 --> 00:58:02.900 So if you heard something you'd like, go ahead and check that out, but we are going to wrap 00:58:02.900 --> 00:58:03.400 it up. 00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:07.820 Uh, 21 has been a, a phenomenal year. 00:58:07.820 --> 00:58:11.400 Even in the midst of a global pandemic, we survived, we figured it out. 00:58:11.460 --> 00:58:12.020 We did it. 00:58:12.020 --> 00:58:13.200 And we made it to this point. 00:58:13.700 --> 00:58:15.520 22 may be messy again. 00:58:16.000 --> 00:58:21.380 Um, who knows what Omicron and I don't want to be pessimistic, but there's a lot of scary 00:58:21.380 --> 00:58:23.240 things out there in the world today. 00:58:23.420 --> 00:58:25.060 The consistent thing is Christ. 00:58:25.340 --> 00:58:30.340 Um, and, and, and as much as sometimes even getting back to the conversation about Mars 00:58:30.340 --> 00:58:35.880 Hill, even as we get distracted and we try to design systems that operate without the need 00:58:35.880 --> 00:58:43.760 of God and without dependence on the Holy spirit, maybe just, maybe it's time for us to find ways 00:58:43.760 --> 00:58:50.100 ways to be more flexible, to be more open, to be more transparent, uh, to be more teachable, 00:58:50.100 --> 00:58:52.720 to be more shapeable, to allow us. 00:58:52.760 --> 00:58:57.340 And that I hope is the challenge for you here in 22. 00:58:57.340 --> 00:59:02.300 We are going, we're going to, we're going to open up, like we've said, we're going to do 00:59:02.300 --> 00:59:08.060 a whole bunch of content aimed at nuances at helping churches like yours understand some 00:59:08.060 --> 00:59:12.120 of the challenges of digital, whether it's from a, a content perspective, a discipleship 00:59:12.120 --> 00:59:18.140 perspective, a, a church planting perspective from a leadership perspective, from a, even a 00:59:18.140 --> 00:59:25.280 mental health perspective from, from gear to actually shaping one's soul in digital space 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:29.180 and, and, and discipling and prayer, properly pastoring people. 00:59:29.660 --> 00:59:33.900 This is the heart of the church digital in 22 and beyond. 00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:40.620 So for the crowd that is literally joining me in this call from, from Tom, from Andy, from 00:59:40.620 --> 00:59:46.040 Chesley, from Garrett, I want to tell you, this is Jeff with the church digital. 00:59:46.600 --> 00:59:47.920 Have a happy new year. 00:59:48.020 --> 00:59:50.920 And we're going to see you on the flip side in 22. 00:59:51.360 --> 00:59:52.040 Y'all have a good one.