WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.320 Hey there, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. My name is Jeff, and I'm glad you've decided to 00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:11.060 join us for episode 20. This is episode 20, and we are excited about it. We've got a great episode 00:00:11.060 --> 00:00:16.500 for you. We're going out to Austin Ridge Bible Church in Austin, Texas. Now, disclaimer, 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:23.120 I used to work for Austin Ridge. I was their communications director, and I loved my time at 00:00:23.120 --> 00:00:29.240 that church. And even from afar now, seeing what that church is doing and how they're growing people 00:00:29.240 --> 00:00:33.860 is awesome, and so I love seeing it from a distance. But we wanted to have a detailed 00:00:33.860 --> 00:00:38.520 conversation with their discipleship pastor and actually one of their worship leaders. His name's 00:00:38.520 --> 00:00:43.480 Jeff Moore. Now, if the first thing that jumped into your head is songs like Good Old Ranger and 00:00:43.480 --> 00:00:50.060 Tano, Laurel and Hardy, Batman and Robin, and Snoopy and Charlie, I got to disappoint you. It's not that 00:00:50.060 --> 00:00:56.640 Jeff Moore. I know I'm disappointed as well. I've always wanted that friendship and that relationship 00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:01.080 because, you know, we all need friends like you. But at the end of the day, it's a different Jeff 00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:04.500 Moore. If you got no idea what I'm talking about, about Jeff Moore and Laurel and Hardy, 00:01:05.120 --> 00:01:12.500 Google it. Jeff Moore, 1990s CCM Christian Contemporary Music, and prepare to be enlightened and or 00:01:12.500 --> 00:01:20.480 disappointed. But we want to talk about discipleship in context of church online and even the church. 00:01:20.480 --> 00:01:26.380 Now, Austin Ridge Bible Church doesn't have a strong church online. They do broadcasted services on 00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:32.260 Facebook each week. But when it comes to creating biblical community, when it comes to discipleship, 00:01:32.320 --> 00:01:38.380 when it comes to fostering those online relationships, honestly, they really just haven't gone in that 00:01:38.380 --> 00:01:42.480 direction. Not saying that's good. Not saying that's bad. It's just the direction the church has chosen. 00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:48.600 And so as a result of that, I don't necessarily want to have this conversation with Jeff talking about how 00:01:48.600 --> 00:01:55.700 to do church online discipleship, but even just as a general rule, how to do discipleship 00:01:55.700 --> 00:02:01.660 in your church. And so that may be two different things, but one needs to be grounded in the other. 00:02:01.800 --> 00:02:08.180 And so what I do know about Austin Ridge is they are a very, like many of you, they are a very busy 00:02:08.180 --> 00:02:13.640 event-driven church. They do lots of things with women's ministry, with men's ministry, 00:02:14.060 --> 00:02:19.740 for parenting, for life groups. There's always something going. As a communications director, 00:02:19.740 --> 00:02:25.900 I can tell you, there is always something going on in the life of Austin Ridge. But they've managed to 00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:29.980 make D groups. They've managed to make discipleship groups. They've managed to make discipleship 00:02:29.980 --> 00:02:37.520 stand out in context of those things. And even now, we're pushing towards a larger church-wide 00:02:37.520 --> 00:02:43.240 campaign, driving people towards a deeper discipleship understanding. So how does that 00:02:43.240 --> 00:02:48.040 tension work in the midst of everything else? What's the strategy that funnels people towards 00:02:48.040 --> 00:02:53.460 discipleship? We may not have all the answers, but what I do know and love about Austin Ridge is 00:02:53.460 --> 00:02:59.160 they're willing to experiment and try it out. And so we've had conversations about discipleship 00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:04.740 recently. Episode 19, we talked to Jared Kirkwood from Mariner's Church and also over the rooted 00:03:04.740 --> 00:03:11.360 material, which is a nine to 10-week study on creating a disciple. Austin Ridge took a different 00:03:11.360 --> 00:03:18.240 approach where they actually wrote personally within the church a 350-page book that's tied to the mission 00:03:18.240 --> 00:03:23.020 and vision of their church. By the way, if you want a copy of that, we've got a couple chapters of it 00:03:23.020 --> 00:03:28.280 available online. Check out the show notes where you can download and see some of what that material 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:33.700 looks like. So Austin Ridge spent some intentionality. Why? What did that look like? 00:03:33.860 --> 00:03:39.240 Jeff Moore, what lessons did you learn from this process? It's questions like this and more that I 00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:45.080 really want to unpack. Here, as I bring to the table, Rady Armis, co-host, and of course, online pastor 00:03:45.080 --> 00:03:50.440 at Christ Fellowship Miami. Bring Jeff Moore, discipleship pastor from Austin Ridge Bible Church, 00:03:50.500 --> 00:03:56.880 myself, Jeff Reed, the church digital, in a conversation focusing on the strategies of 00:03:56.880 --> 00:04:03.020 discipleship groups. Hey, everybody, here you go. I'm the odd duck. Well, it's funny. The first week 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:09.060 that JD and I, in fact, the first meeting, I think JD and I had one-on-one. I didn't remember what we 00:04:09.060 --> 00:04:13.200 were talking about, but he says something to the effect of, you're the first worship leader I've ever 00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:18.040 actually understood what you're talking about. Yeah, I can see that. This is true. 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.860 Is that a logical perspective or just in general? Like, what are we saying here? 00:04:25.100 --> 00:04:33.380 No, it was, you know, it was, how do I say this? The lack of diva-ness. I mean, in grand scheme of 00:04:33.380 --> 00:04:38.280 things, like, he was very grounded. You mean Jeff did go for the gravitas voice where he starts 00:04:38.280 --> 00:04:46.820 speaking really airy and weird pauses? I don't know how to do that. Well, I mean, they told me for 00:04:46.820 --> 00:04:52.180 weeks, hey, we're interviewing Jeff Moore to come in and lead worship. So you thought we're in the 00:04:52.180 --> 00:04:56.980 distance or what were you doing? Dude, I was totally excited for it to be some home run or a friend like 00:04:56.980 --> 00:05:03.100 you. And then this bearded bald guy shows up and I'm like, it's amazing what Photoshop can do and 00:05:03.100 --> 00:05:11.740 oh, wait, no, that's not you. Dang it. I even had like albums ready to get autographed, but no, no such 00:05:11.740 --> 00:05:18.540 luck. It was like a logically grounded guy coming into lead worship. It was just, it was such a 00:05:18.540 --> 00:05:22.760 disappointment. No, I'm kidding. Good God, CCM has failed us again. 00:05:24.640 --> 00:05:32.780 So does that still happen? I mean, seriously, like, like, do people, uh, and I'm trying to remember 00:05:32.780 --> 00:05:37.360 what it was, but it was literally like somebody having lunch with me and they were kind of in 00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:42.240 their own mind convinced that I was that guy. And I just like time and get the best of me. 00:05:44.380 --> 00:05:48.860 Right. Now, Jeff, in all honesty, and I don't mean this in any bad way or form. It's just such a 00:05:48.860 --> 00:05:54.220 niche genre. Did you know who Jeff Moore and the distance were before folks started calling you 00:05:54.220 --> 00:05:59.160 that or like what happened? No, I'm, I'll be 47 in September. So I definitely knew who Jeff was. So 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:04.440 I traveled, toured, did that whole thing for about six years. I actually went under my middle name, 00:06:04.500 --> 00:06:10.180 Jeff Wade, because that was like 95 to 2000. And that's when Jeff Moore and the distance were in 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:14.100 their heyday then. Right. That's when he was co-wrapping with Stephen Curtis and all that stuff. So we 00:06:14.100 --> 00:06:18.120 actually did a couple of camps together where I was a worship leader and he was the concert artist 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:23.340 they brought in. His real name is Jeff Fenwick. Huh? Yeah. Jeff Moore is not his real name. 00:06:24.160 --> 00:06:28.200 And I actually asked him, I was like, dude, of all the names you could choose from, Jeff Moore was the 00:06:28.200 --> 00:06:32.920 sexiest thing for CCM radio you could come up with, you know? Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. 00:06:34.040 --> 00:06:41.260 Exactly. Identity theft. Exactly. Nobody ever thinks about like the people who were born with those 00:06:41.260 --> 00:06:44.400 names, right? They're like, oh yeah, yeah, Jeff Moore would be great. Jeff Moore, that's awesome. 00:06:45.580 --> 00:06:53.660 Yeah. Nice guy, but, you know. How does Austin Ridge define discipleship? Discipleship is, 00:06:53.780 --> 00:06:58.700 and I kind of borrow this from a guy named Daniel M. You read his book, No Silver Bullets? Fantastic book. 00:06:59.260 --> 00:07:05.620 You haven't read it yet. He defines it as, you know, it's that, it's that lifelong trajectory direction 00:07:05.620 --> 00:07:10.700 towards Jesus is what a disciple is. Somebody that's on that journey. So when we're making disciples, 00:07:10.700 --> 00:07:15.540 we're helping people make that next step in that journey. So it's not something that you arrive at. 00:07:16.040 --> 00:07:21.260 That's why we like to refer to it as disciple making instead of discipleship, because discipleship 00:07:21.260 --> 00:07:26.620 seems to just, because it's a term that we're so familiar with, it's a, it's, it's something that 00:07:26.620 --> 00:07:31.380 you've done or something that you do, something you complete versus disciple making is just that 00:07:31.380 --> 00:07:35.960 ongoing progress where you're bringing others with you as you are moving towards Christ. 00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:43.360 That's awesome. So for you, and I like this idea of the, of the long term. And so it's, it's an 00:07:43.360 --> 00:07:49.060 interesting, the switch between like a discipleship and disciple making are contextually the word 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:54.500 discipleships lost a lot of its value in that you probably get 10 people in a room together and ask 00:07:54.500 --> 00:07:59.560 them what discipleship is. You'll get 15 answers back, just the varying levels of that. But it's, 00:07:59.560 --> 00:08:06.500 it's very clear in context of disciple making. Now, a lot of people, and we had episode 19, 00:08:06.600 --> 00:08:13.800 the last episode, we had Jared, Jared Kirkwood on, and he's with Rooted Material, which is out of 00:08:13.800 --> 00:08:18.300 Mariner's Church. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's a really great content. Yeah, I was 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:24.920 really enjoying digging into that. But, you know, and he, and he defines discipleship and there's many 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:31.060 different ways. And I agree with that, but it was disciples are people who make disciples. And so there's 00:08:31.060 --> 00:08:37.980 like a repetitive process for that. A disciple, someone is capable of making other disciples. With, with 00:08:37.980 --> 00:08:41.880 Austin Ridge, what does that, what does that look like? I think the reality is that everybody's making 00:08:41.880 --> 00:08:45.480 disciples whether they realize it or not. So it's, if you're going to, if you're going to be doing it 00:08:45.480 --> 00:08:50.800 anyway, you might as well do it well. So we've created that curriculum to help people, you know 00:08:50.800 --> 00:08:57.260 what I mean? To help people start. Because what we find is, I think most people, whether they, 00:08:58.160 --> 00:09:04.340 I don't think most people want to be disobedient on purpose. So I think if scripture tells us that 00:09:04.340 --> 00:09:07.960 we're to go and make disciples, you know, teaching them all I command you, baptizing them, you know, 00:09:08.200 --> 00:09:13.400 so on and so forth. I think most people, once they realize that, they want to do it. Now, 00:09:13.400 --> 00:09:18.380 whether or not they have the courage to step out personality wise, whether it's insecurity, 00:09:18.380 --> 00:09:24.780 whatever it is, they want to be obedient. So if we can help them be obedient, uh, by giving them 00:09:24.780 --> 00:09:29.780 kind of a toolkit that they can work with, uh, that at least will help some people get started in that 00:09:29.780 --> 00:09:34.920 process. So we created that curriculum or a handbook is kind of what we call it, instead of curriculum, 00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:39.760 because it's got a connotation to it, obviously. But, um, you know, what we encourage them to do, 00:09:39.760 --> 00:09:46.820 hey, you know, you take, you know, three to five other people through this handbook over the next 00:09:46.820 --> 00:09:51.420 nine to 12 months. And when you're done, they will have been equipped to do what you just did with 00:09:51.420 --> 00:09:56.900 them. So there is no pressure for you to be great at it. You were, you were one among equals, right? 00:09:56.960 --> 00:10:01.320 You know, you're all trying to pursue, move towards Jesus. You're not supposed to be an expert teacher, 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:05.460 uh, an expert, anything. You're supposed to be a disciple. You're supposed to be someone who loves 00:10:05.460 --> 00:10:11.120 Jesus, wants to see other people love Jesus and understand Jesus, and then live for Jesus. So if 00:10:11.120 --> 00:10:16.660 you can do that, if you're willing to, to risk doing that, here's a toolkit. Now, the next time you take 00:10:16.660 --> 00:10:21.460 somebody through this, you know, shape it a little bit, you know, what I mean. So if they haven't done 00:10:21.460 --> 00:10:25.700 it before, like here's some guardrails in the, you know, each subsequent time kind of make it your own 00:10:25.700 --> 00:10:32.120 work. Over time, this is just one tool among many that you have. So that's one way to do it. Uh, I think, 00:10:32.260 --> 00:10:37.520 you know, through the teaching on Sunday morning, I think is a way we do it. Um, I think one of the 00:10:37.520 --> 00:10:43.460 things we're doing now, uh, we started this whole equipped, you know, category of things around here. 00:10:43.560 --> 00:10:48.280 They're, uh, you've seen the round table, uh, videos online. So we have this equipped department 00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:53.820 now where we're offering two-week classes on knowing Jesus, on how to study the Bible, and how to share 00:10:53.820 --> 00:11:01.660 your faith, uh, rolling out some other class environments on science, on apologetics, on some other aspects 00:11:01.660 --> 00:11:06.620 of studying God's Word, things like that. So we're trying to provide some things that are, uh, very 00:11:06.620 --> 00:11:12.280 unstructured, uh, with some, with some tools to use in the unstructured environment, but more 00:11:12.280 --> 00:11:17.300 decentralized. That'd be like a D group. Uh, these classes, obviously more centralized, master teacher 00:11:17.300 --> 00:11:23.040 oriented. Um, so we're trying to stay away from saying, you know, one is better than the other, 00:11:23.040 --> 00:11:29.860 but here are various options to take advantage of as you grow as a disciple and make other disciples. 00:11:29.860 --> 00:11:33.640 So that was a really long answer to like a one sentence question, but it's kind of somewhere in 00:11:33.640 --> 00:11:38.520 all that is kind of what we're doing right now. Sure. Well, and the one thing I know just even from, 00:11:38.620 --> 00:11:45.520 from working at Austin Ridge is, is you guys, um, you have a lot of, of, let's call them discipleship 00:11:45.520 --> 00:11:50.360 options that not, they not, you have a lot of grow options. Let me use your language, uh, available 00:11:50.360 --> 00:11:54.140 with that. So you've got, you know, you've got the men's ministry, you've got women's ministry, 00:11:54.140 --> 00:12:01.320 you've got small groups, discipleship was, was kind of a, of an out shoot of that. Um, what, 00:12:01.420 --> 00:12:07.320 what is the, what is the relationship as, cause what I see now from the outside is discipleship 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:13.660 has seemed to have gotten more, I'm using the word structured, not as has gotten more value 00:12:13.660 --> 00:12:20.380 in importance maybe over, over the past several years. Um, so like, well, how is that tension 00:12:20.380 --> 00:12:27.220 of, okay, do I need to be in a men's ministry and discipleship or discipleship? What, what's, 00:12:27.320 --> 00:12:33.880 how does, how does somebody who is in your church, how do they navigate that to find the right place? 00:12:34.380 --> 00:12:38.600 One of the things that we're learning right now is honestly how to do that. So the D groups 00:12:38.600 --> 00:12:43.980 ministry, which is what I'm overseeing with this handbook and everything, we're really just going 00:12:43.980 --> 00:12:49.600 public with that for the first time, you know, i.e. lead pastor Brad talking about it, uh, things like 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:54.780 that. We've had, you know, 50 plus groups going with that without people really even knowing about 00:12:54.780 --> 00:13:01.300 it. Really? Yeah. So it's kind of like, let's prepare for whatever might happen once it really 00:13:01.300 --> 00:13:05.640 goes public. So with that, now we've got kind of four buckets. We've got D groups, we've got life 00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:11.660 groups, we've got men's and women's discipleship, disciple making, equipping, all those things kind 00:13:11.660 --> 00:13:16.820 of run through all those environments. What makes each distinctive is obviously men's and women's are 00:13:16.820 --> 00:13:22.720 very gender specific, but they're going to be more kind of step one for a lot of people. Uh, you know, 00:13:22.800 --> 00:13:28.040 it's going to be something that's kind of given to you. You're kind of going to feed your own soul 00:13:28.040 --> 00:13:33.900 to build some relationships, uh, kind of in that order. Life groups will be more build relationships, 00:13:33.900 --> 00:13:40.120 feed your own soul. Right. And then in, in the D groups, we're, we're giving you the tools to 00:13:40.120 --> 00:13:47.660 train up others so that they can train up others. So they kind of all have, uh, the same things, 00:13:47.660 --> 00:13:52.680 but just in different orders of priority. Right. I know it's difficult to gauge, but our folks who 00:13:52.680 --> 00:13:57.860 are, who are looking at D groups, are they looking at that as, Hey, I'm being trained to be sent out, 00:13:57.860 --> 00:14:01.880 or are they looking at it for the sense of, Hey, let me get, let me kind of engorge as a Christian 00:14:01.880 --> 00:14:06.600 and let me gain more knowledge and that kind of thing. It's messaged over and over and over again, 00:14:06.600 --> 00:14:12.700 that you're being equipped to equip. Now what they hear and how they process that over nine to 12 00:14:12.700 --> 00:14:17.420 months, obviously a lot of people are just going to do what they want to with it. And they're going to 00:14:17.420 --> 00:14:22.320 one more Bible study is what it's going to turn into for them. And, uh, that next step may not be 00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:27.160 equipping other people. So we kind of have to just trust the spirits at work in that over a really long 00:14:27.160 --> 00:14:33.200 process and not that 12 month process that we would like to, to great, you know, uh, in, in our 00:14:33.200 --> 00:14:39.360 database. Um, but, uh, you know, one thing we have seen is a lot of people, and we, we do this on purpose, 00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:44.440 even with the people that have been in it so far as this is something that you can do alongside what 00:14:44.440 --> 00:14:49.700 you're already doing. Like this shouldn't pull you out of serving, being in a community you're 00:14:49.700 --> 00:14:54.140 already in, like for you to, to be disciple, to make disciples, it's going to make you better at 00:14:54.140 --> 00:14:58.720 what you're already doing. So don't stop doing that. Uh, you have to maybe take it on the chin a 00:14:58.720 --> 00:15:04.580 little bit and do a little more the next nine to 12 months. Uh, but this will make you better, 00:15:04.720 --> 00:15:08.300 more effective, more grounded, more able to do the things that you're already doing. 00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.820 Do you guys, do you guys promote that to the church at large? Or is this for like folks 00:15:12.820 --> 00:15:16.180 that you're like, you're eyeballing and you're like, this is the right kind of person that 00:15:16.180 --> 00:15:17.120 we're looking at for this. 00:15:17.120 --> 00:15:22.300 Up until now, it's been more of the eyeballing, uh, and really like me working through our 00:15:22.300 --> 00:15:27.680 moons and women's, uh, leaders to, to find the right people. Uh, one, not only to leave, 00:15:27.780 --> 00:15:32.420 two, to actually be in the groups, like who are the best candidates for this kind of thing. Uh, 00:15:32.420 --> 00:15:37.840 starting though, well, I guess this next month, it'll be promoted alongside all our other 00:15:37.840 --> 00:15:44.340 environments. So we'll see if that waters it down and makes it better or worse. Uh, if it makes it 00:15:44.340 --> 00:15:50.360 harder, I just don't know right now, uh, cause even with 50 ish groups across three campuses, 00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:55.640 you know, you can see that out of that, probably half of those are really like at the point of the 00:15:55.640 --> 00:15:59.340 spear that we want them to be. The rest of them are constantly trying to bring them back, you know? 00:15:59.340 --> 00:16:03.880 So if you, you know, triple that to 150, I would, you're probably still seeing about a third that are 00:16:03.880 --> 00:16:09.080 on point and focusing. You're having to constantly bring those others back. But, um, you know, the 00:16:09.080 --> 00:16:13.080 worst thing that's going to happen is somebody is going to be equipped with some basic theological 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.680 understanding, you know, basic, you know, tools of how to study the Bible on their own and some 00:16:17.680 --> 00:16:22.440 basic, hopefully outlooks of how to better live for Christ and understand who they are. If that's the 00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:29.360 worst, it happens. No, it's not a terrible thing. Inacceptable loss. For real. Is it tough to resist 00:16:29.360 --> 00:16:33.220 the temptation to take a new believer through this? Cause obviously they're like the most excited 00:16:33.220 --> 00:16:38.580 about their faith. They're the most like on fire. Perfect candidate for this. I think a believer, 00:16:39.080 --> 00:16:44.140 uh, I think that's one step too few. Sure. And of course, a lot of people, they're just naturally 00:16:44.140 --> 00:16:48.180 bent towards evangelism. Like, Oh, I'd love to take my enslaved neighbor through this. I'm like, 00:16:48.220 --> 00:16:52.240 if they're willing to sign up for this commitment, man, Godspeed, but there's no way they're going to 00:16:52.240 --> 00:16:56.800 finish this thing because it's just going to be so much, uh, unfamiliar territory for them. But I 00:16:56.800 --> 00:17:01.060 think a new believer that, uh, is unformed spiritually, you know, they're still in that 00:17:01.060 --> 00:17:06.500 spiritual formation process. I think that's perfect. Uh, because what you find is, uh, the people that 00:17:06.500 --> 00:17:12.700 honestly have the hardest time staying on track with something like the whole D group experience is 00:17:12.700 --> 00:17:17.280 somebody who's been through, you know, 15 different women's studies or men's studies or life group 00:17:17.280 --> 00:17:21.000 studies and their natural gravitational pulls back to what they've already done. So you've got to 00:17:21.000 --> 00:17:25.500 constantly retrain them of, you know, this is different. This is good. Use what you've learned, 00:17:25.500 --> 00:17:31.400 but don't try to make this that. Right. See, that's the challenge that I've seen, uh, is so for 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.960 instance, my dad is a teacher at Bible study fellowship. I'm sure they got some of that where 00:17:34.960 --> 00:17:41.420 you're at. And so, you know, uh, almost, I would almost rather send a new believer from our church 00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:46.340 to undergo something like that, where it's like, no, you're going to be in the word and, and you're going to be 00:17:46.340 --> 00:17:49.780 accountable for like what you're learning there. And there's going to be, yeah, there's going to be 00:17:49.780 --> 00:17:54.000 some homework, but there's going to be a lot of challenge. And as opposed to, Hey, let's fix you 00:17:54.000 --> 00:17:58.780 into a group where it's going to be, and, and this isn't to mean to demean anything. Cause I run my 00:17:58.780 --> 00:18:02.500 small group based off of video, video based curriculum or anything like that, where it's going to be more 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:07.840 consumption as opposed to more challenge. And, and it's going to help the believer over the longer 00:18:07.840 --> 00:18:11.540 haul of their life, you know, like we're equipping them to go do the things that Jesus called them to do, 00:18:11.540 --> 00:18:16.980 not just to absorb content. Right. Yeah. The biggest, I say one of the biggest tweaks we've 00:18:16.980 --> 00:18:23.300 made to this handbook is taking a lot of questions at the end of the chapter out of it. And the goal 00:18:23.300 --> 00:18:26.980 of the group time when they meet each week is that each person in the group is supposed to bring 00:18:26.980 --> 00:18:34.020 observations and questions they have to the table. So week one, the, the job of each person in the group 00:18:34.020 --> 00:18:39.940 is to bring themselves to the, to it, you know, uh, versus that, okay, question one is X. Well, 00:18:39.940 --> 00:18:45.300 that's what every group does. We have plenty of environments that go through question. One is X, 00:18:45.460 --> 00:18:49.240 but you know, Hey, Steve, what are you thinking about? Like, what did this draw out? And what 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:54.060 didn't you understand? Um, you know, just those kinds of things to where it's more, it's more 00:18:54.060 --> 00:18:57.920 heartfelt. And now the call for the leader then is to really be light on their feet. You know, 00:18:57.920 --> 00:19:02.020 they got to be able to kind of go to their left a lot, so to speak in that, but, you know, 00:19:02.020 --> 00:19:07.340 to really let the group drive the conversation so that they learn how to articulate, uh, not only 00:19:07.340 --> 00:19:11.080 what they're learning, what they don't understand. Cause that's as big a part of being a disciple 00:19:11.080 --> 00:19:15.760 is anything is being able to just honestly say, I don't know, I don't understand this. Can you help 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:19.520 me? You know? And so if we can equip people to just be more comfortable doing that, that's a huge 00:19:19.520 --> 00:19:26.840 win. As, as a communications director, when I was at Austin Ridge, I, I struggled, um, with this 00:19:26.840 --> 00:19:32.700 D group mentality because it was, and, and, and I've, I'm going to confess right here. I've, 00:19:32.700 --> 00:19:38.860 I've had a brain shift and I understand it probably better than I did when I was there. Um, but what I 00:19:38.860 --> 00:19:44.340 struggled with is actually the same things that I see a lot of other churches struggle with is, 00:19:44.560 --> 00:19:52.020 okay, so this is another thing. Do we want somebody to be in a D group and a men's or slash slash small 00:19:52.020 --> 00:19:58.380 group? Like, is this another thing that we want of them a week? Or if I had to choose between a 00:19:58.380 --> 00:20:05.120 men's women's small group or a D group, like what, what's the, why would I choose or what is the option 00:20:05.120 --> 00:20:10.540 that I should choose there? When you talk with people who have that, that tension, who feel that, 00:20:10.680 --> 00:20:16.180 like what's your response to something like that? Biggest thing I try to do is really spell out what 00:20:16.180 --> 00:20:21.540 each environment offers kind of the same while ago. And then just give them the freedom to use what 00:20:21.540 --> 00:20:25.440 they want to do. I mean, at the end of the day, it's up to them to own their faith. Uh, we actually 00:20:25.440 --> 00:20:29.920 got an event coming up, uh, in August, own your faith. It's, it's an equipment event. We'll have 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:35.440 hundreds of people there in the, at the end of the night, their assignment before the night's over is 00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:40.800 to spell out the next three months, six months, 12 months. What are your steps, um, that you're 00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:46.040 going to take in your faith and whether that's, uh, and we've, we've, we've kind of created a tool 00:20:46.040 --> 00:20:50.700 for them to assess where, where they are, like where their, where their weakest point is right now, 00:20:50.700 --> 00:20:55.740 based on our core values. Um, and you know, is that something that you really want to see changed 00:20:55.740 --> 00:20:59.640 in the next 12 months? Okay. For the next three months, here are your options. Six months, 00:20:59.720 --> 00:21:04.300 here are your options. 12 months. Now pick one race. There's plenty of freedom there. You know, 00:21:04.300 --> 00:21:09.000 this is a long, this is a long road mindset that we're trying to take here. You know, 00:21:09.040 --> 00:21:12.520 you're not going to fix yourself in the next 12 months, but what's something you can grow in? 00:21:12.600 --> 00:21:16.600 You know, uh, you're still human, but you're still made in the image of God and you're filled 00:21:16.600 --> 00:21:20.700 with Christ spirit and in Christ, you are being sanctified and all these things. So what is that 00:21:20.700 --> 00:21:24.960 sanctification process? How can we come alongside you as a church in the next three months, 00:21:25.020 --> 00:21:29.580 six months, 12 months? Uh, but you got to do it. We can't do it for you. So that's good. 00:21:30.420 --> 00:21:33.920 Trying to take a step back to answer your, I think answer your question is, you know, 00:21:33.920 --> 00:21:40.300 if a men's group does it for you best, uh, man, get after it now, get after it, you know, 00:21:40.300 --> 00:21:46.540 but if it's a D group or a life group, or if it's a, um, you know, maybe you're in all these 00:21:46.540 --> 00:21:50.180 things already and you're not serving anywhere. You don't know how to share your faith. You know 00:21:50.180 --> 00:21:54.320 what? Take this two week class on how to share your faith and a conversation setting. Do that. 00:21:54.360 --> 00:21:58.540 That's huge. Uh, serving it in a men's group, but you're still scared to share your faith. 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:01.440 We've got to call time out here and let's, let's talk about that. You know what I mean? 00:22:01.440 --> 00:22:06.240 So it's not a, it isn't a priority necessarily. It's like, it's all these things, you know, 00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:12.720 it's the, um, yeah. And that's what makes it fun. I think the more we can, uh, help people 00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:16.740 understand what we offer them, why we offer it to them, and that there's freedom for them 00:22:16.740 --> 00:22:22.500 to choose among those things and then just get after it. Uh, we, you know, we hope that more 00:22:22.500 --> 00:22:27.300 and more people will take us up on that. So, okay. So let me add, let me ask this because 00:22:27.300 --> 00:22:35.940 you've, what you, what you've got is a 350 page book for nine to 12 months. Like that's, 00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:41.240 that's a, that's a huge commitment. Um, a lot of the other curriculums that, that I've looked at, 00:22:41.240 --> 00:22:47.280 you know, um, we last week or recently we talked with, um, rooted and rooted. It's like a 10 week 00:22:47.280 --> 00:22:53.120 thing. Uh, I've got experience with Timothy initiative. Um, uh, David Nelms, it's roughly 00:22:53.120 --> 00:22:57.140 attended. I think it's a 16 week, but we would chop it in half and do it and do it in eight weeks. 00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:04.340 That's a huge commitment time-wise of nine to 12 months. Um, I'm guessing there was intentionality 00:23:04.340 --> 00:23:09.920 on making it that long. Why did you choose to be a little more aggressive on the time to stretch it 00:23:09.920 --> 00:23:14.820 out that big? Sure. Well, I mean, you could almost break it up into four studies, you know, because 00:23:14.820 --> 00:23:19.760 we, we built it around our model of a disciple, which is a lifelong learner and follower of Jesus 00:23:19.760 --> 00:23:24.920 who knows who God is at section one, knows what Christ is in section two, knows who they are in 00:23:24.920 --> 00:23:28.500 Christ section three, and then knows how to live for Christ section four. So if you look at it that 00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:35.280 way, it kind of is for 10 week, you know, serious kind of thing. Um, but you know, we tried to build 00:23:35.280 --> 00:23:40.880 it to where we kind of took the approach of, and I say we, this is a large group of people going back 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:45.460 about four years when all this started. So I didn't do this single handling by any stretch. I have, 00:23:45.620 --> 00:23:52.920 I have some fingerprints on it. Uh, but me, TJ Morelli, a few other guys on staff, uh, started working 00:23:52.920 --> 00:23:58.760 on this concept about four years ago and basically just decided, okay, what are some theological 00:23:58.760 --> 00:24:04.900 tenants that we want a disciple who comes out of Austin Ridge, uh, to, to know, you know, we want 00:24:04.900 --> 00:24:10.420 to be able to, as best as we can understand, you know, what the Trinity is, what God's character 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:14.620 attributes are, how God's revealed himself, you know, those types of things, but then connect that 00:24:14.620 --> 00:24:19.540 back to real life. You know, why do these things matter? Where do they matter? When do they matter? 00:24:19.540 --> 00:24:24.060 And how do I articulate that stuff? Uh, moving on from that, you know, what Christ has done 00:24:24.060 --> 00:24:28.900 really understanding sin, really understanding faith, really understanding these things that 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:32.780 we kind of take for granted, but really being able to articulate that stuff and find it in 00:24:32.780 --> 00:24:36.600 scripture and be able to walk through passages on their own for that, you know, who we are in 00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:41.400 Christ, the fact that we are forgiven, the fact that we are just, you know, we are justified, 00:24:41.560 --> 00:24:45.300 sanctified, we will be glorified, those types of things. Where does that show up in 00:24:45.300 --> 00:24:49.760 scripture? How do I study that for myself? And then based on all that, you know, if you 00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:54.240 go through all this stuff and you don't have a desire to live differently for Jesus, then 00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:58.960 you should start over. So assuming that once you get through those three sections, you just 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:04.260 have something that you feel like you've got to do now. Okay, let's end with how we live 00:25:04.260 --> 00:25:08.280 for Christ. And then looking that, you know, that actually starts with abiding, uh, that 00:25:08.280 --> 00:25:12.480 looks at the example he gave us, uh, that moves on into the great commission and unpacking 00:25:12.480 --> 00:25:17.040 that in many different ways. Um, that sort of thing. So we decided instead of kind 00:25:17.040 --> 00:25:20.840 of, and even doing that, I mean, not until much, you're still skimming the surface of 00:25:20.840 --> 00:25:24.500 a lot of that stuff. You're not doing a dive on the Trinity in a week. You know what I 00:25:24.500 --> 00:25:29.340 mean? You might be going further than they've typically gone, but I had a seminary prof 00:25:29.340 --> 00:25:32.780 tell me, it's like, well, since we can't spend six months on this, the next 20 minutes 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:36.300 will be fine. You know, so again, I had to take that approach. Like you can't cover any 00:25:36.300 --> 00:25:40.300 of this stuff exhaustively, but you can hopefully do it enough to at least give us some 00:25:40.300 --> 00:25:46.420 language, give some terms, give some connected tissue from, uh, teaching to being able to 00:25:46.420 --> 00:25:50.140 find it in the word for yourself to being able to teach somebody else how to find it in the 00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:56.000 word and then teach somebody else, that sort of thing. Um, you know, and all along the way, 00:25:56.040 --> 00:26:01.480 also developing spiritual disciplines. So daily time in prayer, specifically for, uh, lost people 00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:05.360 you, you regularly encounter with them for opportunities to have spiritual conversations, 00:26:05.360 --> 00:26:10.540 praying for a specific missionary or country, and then praying for workers for the harvest. 00:26:10.540 --> 00:26:15.480 So we call it what we call the missional big three here. Um, you know, so when you talk, 00:26:15.600 --> 00:26:19.420 when, so that's when you start looking at trying to develop habits and spiritual disciplines, 00:26:19.420 --> 00:26:24.600 that takes longer than 10 weeks. Then the job of the leader is, you know, you start every 00:26:24.600 --> 00:26:28.580 group meeting with, okay, guys, you've been in the word daily for yourselves. What are you 00:26:28.580 --> 00:26:31.880 learning? What did, what did you see? Have you been praying the missional big three? Okay. 00:26:31.880 --> 00:26:36.020 Before we go any further, let's do that together. Who are we praying for? You know, who have you 00:26:36.020 --> 00:26:40.880 had spiritual conversations with, et cetera, et cetera. So that's, that's why we decided to make 00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:46.880 the, all that as much as we could structure it happen for somebody over nine to 12 months. 00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:51.600 You got some groups that want to spend four weeks on the Trinity. I discourage them from doing that, 00:26:51.700 --> 00:26:55.640 but grown adults are going to do what grown adults are going to do. If they want to do that, 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:58.640 that's fine. But you're going to be in this thing for like two years. That's a long time. 00:26:58.940 --> 00:27:05.480 Yeah. And so another thing we did too, I mean, JD, I'm talking a long time, sorry, but you know, 00:27:05.500 --> 00:27:12.440 Brad's led these groups for 20 years and his typically go 12 to 15 months. And so that doesn't, 00:27:12.560 --> 00:27:16.360 they kind of gave us freedom to not try to do a 10 or 12 week study. It's like the Brad does a 00:27:16.360 --> 00:27:21.180 discipleship group for 12 to 15 months. Let's write something that they can do in nine to 12 months. 00:27:21.300 --> 00:27:28.460 Kind of batteries included. So did you ever consider like not writing your own or, or was the vision 00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:35.240 towards, man, we want to so tightly integrate this into our strategy. We just, we need to do it 00:27:35.240 --> 00:27:40.420 ourselves. That's why we did that. Yeah. We want it to sound like us, feel like us. If somebody goes 00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:45.320 through partnership and here's this thing, you know, about what a disciple is at Austin Ridge and they go 00:27:45.320 --> 00:27:50.420 through our disciple making materials that it all lines up. So, cause we looked at like Greg Ogden's 00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:55.760 stuff, uh, actually basics, whatever that was called. Uh, we looked at some stuff that watermark 00:27:55.760 --> 00:28:00.000 had, we looked at stuff that village had, I mean, this is all great stuff, but we'd have to tweak it 00:28:00.000 --> 00:28:05.700 so much to feel like us. Uh, let's just start from scratch. And it really was a neat, uh, experience 00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:09.620 because at the end of the day, man, you probably saw the credits page at the end of that, Jeff, but 00:28:09.620 --> 00:28:15.760 there's, you know, 20 different writers that staff and volunteers. There's eight different editors, 00:28:15.940 --> 00:28:20.960 staff and volunteers. Uh, you know, so it really is a collective effort that, uh, you know, right now 00:28:20.960 --> 00:28:24.040 it's great, you know, three to five years from now, we'll probably go, well, that was a dumb idea. 00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:27.420 And we'll be on to something else because it's a church and we, we learn and grow and that sort of 00:28:27.420 --> 00:28:32.080 thing. So we're not telling people this is the Bible of anything, but you know, it's anything but 00:28:32.080 --> 00:28:36.360 that, you know, this is just a tool to come alongside God's word, to come alongside the 00:28:36.360 --> 00:28:41.040 spirit at work in you and to come alongside the community that you, you need to be in. Uh, but 00:28:41.040 --> 00:28:45.280 as you're in community in God's word, as the spirit works in you, this is a tool to use in this season. 00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:49.900 Well, you know, and I love the thing that I've always loved about Austin Ridge is, is their ability 00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:56.220 to, to do these astronomical, these, these huge projects without even like blinking an eye just, 00:28:56.360 --> 00:29:00.240 okay, this is what we need to see infrastructure. Like I'm even just thinking back. I don't even 00:29:00.240 --> 00:29:04.880 know if you guys do it anymore, but time with God, there was this like daily devotional that was 00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:12.760 essentially volunteer produced. Uh, I think there was like one person who was an editor who was like 00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:18.700 part-time staff who put it together, but essentially it was volunteer and staff written for years like 00:29:18.700 --> 00:29:21.900 that, that, that went on. Do you guys still do that? I'm just curious. 00:29:22.040 --> 00:29:24.860 I actually just pulled the plug on that, uh, back in the spring. 00:29:25.420 --> 00:29:30.520 Yeah. And just, I mean, what, but what, what I loved about it was, yeah, Hey, let's, let's do this. 00:29:30.520 --> 00:29:35.060 And, and maybe it wasn't the best place to pour the resources into, but I love the church's 00:29:35.060 --> 00:29:40.440 vision towards, Hey, this is a great idea. That is a resource. Let's create it. You know, I look at, 00:29:40.500 --> 00:29:48.160 I look at the book that you guys have created. It's 350 pages. Like that's no small feat, even with 20 00:29:48.160 --> 00:29:54.960 writers and putting that together, keeping everybody singular focused on this and, um, and, and generating 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:59.080 that and getting it done. And this is what I think I saw somewhere. This is like version three. 00:29:59.320 --> 00:30:06.440 Yeah. We didn't start off with a 350 page book in mind. Uh, what it started off as is a more of a 00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:12.120 typical, that's a bad word, but you know what I mean? More of a traditional kind of small group thing 00:30:12.120 --> 00:30:17.400 where here's the topic, here's some passages. What do you see? What does it mean? What do I do? 00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:22.420 Kind of stuff. And there was like five or six days of that for each topic. So the idea was somebody 00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:28.240 will do this in 15, 20 minutes per day in addition to their normal time. Problem is, uh, you're assuming 00:30:28.240 --> 00:30:34.520 a lot of the leader, uh, you're actually going to get the right, get to the right place with nothing 00:30:34.520 --> 00:30:40.320 but a little explanatory note and some verses, you know, that that's a lot, that's a lot to ask. So, 00:30:40.320 --> 00:30:44.580 uh, we fleshed it out a little bit more and we fleshed it out one more time. And that's how we 00:30:44.580 --> 00:30:48.780 got to where we are now. So really, if you look through most of the weeks now, there's about 00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:53.520 four to six headings. So we still kind of kept those same basic headings from that original version. 00:30:53.660 --> 00:30:57.740 We just added a little more meat in there so that it kind of walks somebody through. 00:30:58.280 --> 00:31:01.360 Um, it doesn't give them all the answers, but it kind of walks them towards the answer. 00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:06.460 I'm not a numbers guy and we talk not, we talk a lot about how I don't like numbers, but this is 00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:09.980 just the numbers you've told me. You've got 50 groups, three to five people. 00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:15.840 So bad math, 150 to 250 people going through this. When you look at discipleship and you're 00:31:15.840 --> 00:31:22.320 rolling out new campaign where fall 2019, you're going to be pushing discipleship instead of a, 00:31:22.840 --> 00:31:26.320 Hey, let's pull some people aside. Maybe this is more like beta underground, 00:31:26.320 --> 00:31:32.220 but you're making discipleship more of a public presence out in front of the people, getting 00:31:32.220 --> 00:31:37.740 them on board. Um, when you look at discipleship, is it, Hey, we're just going to see where this 00:31:37.740 --> 00:31:42.980 thing goes. Do you internally have goals or things that you want to drive to and say, okay, 00:31:42.980 --> 00:31:47.940 the goal is to get this many people in discipleship. As you've talked about discipleship growth in your 00:31:47.940 --> 00:31:50.520 church, like how do you guys treat that? 00:31:51.020 --> 00:31:55.660 Yeah. I mean the, kind of the soft goal is that I think it's reasonable to look for a hundred and 00:31:55.660 --> 00:32:02.940 hundred and fifty groups this next year. Uh, and out of that, you know, a third to a half of those will 00:32:02.940 --> 00:32:10.060 probably, uh, finish really well. A lot of those, uh, kind of leaving the tracks a little bit. We'll 00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:14.940 have to get them back on, but it's kind of those things of, you know, I won't, we won't really know 00:32:14.940 --> 00:32:19.400 if this is successful till we get down the road three to five years because if we don't see groups 00:32:19.400 --> 00:32:23.960 multiplying, uh, if we don't see groups ending in nine to 12 months, and then, you know, at least 00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:29.500 one of the four to six people, two of the four to six people going on to lead others, uh, whether it's 00:32:29.500 --> 00:32:34.640 in a D group or some sort of format, then, uh, then in my opinion, we haven't been successful, 00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:41.840 uh, at least with the stated goal of disciples making disciples. Um, but it's really, you know, 00:32:41.840 --> 00:32:46.980 kind of asking two to three, four years if it's working or not, um, because it's just going to 00:32:46.980 --> 00:32:53.420 take time, you know? And, um, yeah, I mean, that's the, that's the unfortunate answer. You know, 00:32:53.420 --> 00:32:57.500 at the same time, it's only Holy Spirit can change a heart. Only Holy Spirit can really guide us in 00:32:57.500 --> 00:33:03.100 the truth, you know, the Holy Spirit, uh, the Holy Spirit does what he's going to do, which I believe he 00:33:03.100 --> 00:33:07.940 will. Then the next step is will people be obedient to what the Spirit's doing in their heart? We can't 00:33:07.940 --> 00:33:14.680 control that. So that's good. I've, I've talked with, with churches and actually, um, you know what 00:33:14.680 --> 00:33:20.440 long hollow Ray, I'm blanking on the guys named lead pastor. Uh, yeah. So I've listened to Robbie, 00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:25.100 Robbie Gallaty's podcast on this and actually I credit him because he's the first guy that really 00:33:25.100 --> 00:33:30.600 put this on my radar. Um, you know, there, there's a, there's a tension between a, like a one-on-one 00:33:31.560 --> 00:33:37.860 and then a one to multiple, um, one to three, one to five. I think you guys are three to five. You 00:33:37.860 --> 00:33:42.960 said Robbie actually leans towards in his podcast and we'll link it in the show notes. He leans 00:33:42.960 --> 00:33:48.820 towards a one to three model. Um, I just was wondering what life lessons have, have you learned 00:33:48.820 --> 00:33:54.040 as you've been developing this? Why have you landed on that three to five range? Have you experienced 00:33:54.040 --> 00:33:59.280 anything one way or the other? Uh, man, I think a lot of this personality during, I mean, personally, 00:33:59.280 --> 00:34:03.360 I'm more comfortable in a one-on-one I'd rather just get, you know, roll up our sleeves with, 00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:09.660 with one other guy and just get after it. Uh, I think there's a place for that. I think there's a 00:34:09.660 --> 00:34:16.200 place, uh, for the kind of the four to six person group. That's more, I think you get the accountability 00:34:16.200 --> 00:34:22.080 piece is different in each. I think that just that formation piece is different in each. Um, 00:34:22.080 --> 00:34:28.280 I don't know that we, uh, like right now I can think of three groups that are one-on-one, 00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:34.100 uh, that, you know, a particular individual wanted to lead, uh, just one other guy because he had, 00:34:34.180 --> 00:34:38.140 uh, just made a great relationship. He's already discipled this guy and he just wanted to use this 00:34:38.140 --> 00:34:43.500 tool. I'm like, great. There's no rules, no rules against that kind of thing. Uh, you know, 00:34:43.500 --> 00:34:50.680 it's almost the, the duplication ratio. You know, if you have four to six people go through it, if 00:34:50.680 --> 00:34:56.080 one or two of those, you know, go on to do it again, you're just getting more people through the 00:34:56.080 --> 00:35:02.720 system. Uh, practically speaking. Um, I think that's honestly why it's just a basic numbers thing. 00:35:02.720 --> 00:35:07.880 If we can get 300 people to go through it and we get, you know, 75 to a hundred of them to take a 00:35:07.880 --> 00:35:12.940 next step versus if we get 50 people to go through it, we get 10 of them to take a next step. 00:35:12.940 --> 00:35:16.980 So you've mentioned a couple of times, cause I, and I know discipleship and what I've seen from 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:23.500 the outside. And by the way, what I've seen, I love, um, you mentioned equip, uh, a couple of times 00:35:23.500 --> 00:35:31.000 and, uh, and what equip, why don't you define what equip is in context of, of Austin Ridge? Let's, 00:35:31.060 --> 00:35:35.060 let's park on that for a little bit. Yeah. So Joey Ryder, who's our life groups and equipment, 00:35:35.060 --> 00:35:40.080 equipping pastor, uh, he kind of threw this idea out. It was probably a couple of years ago now. 00:35:40.080 --> 00:35:48.060 And what it started off as was, uh, kind of event-based, uh, targeted to the things that we 00:35:48.060 --> 00:35:53.480 just don't cover in a Sunday morning. Typically, you know, the felt need oriented things, uh, you know, 00:35:53.480 --> 00:35:57.040 we're not going to do six weeks on marriage money and finances like a lot of churches. Those are 00:35:57.040 --> 00:36:00.800 good. It's just not us. Uh, but we need, we need an environment to do that. 00:36:01.060 --> 00:36:05.360 Uh, you know, we realized that certain ministries, like our care ministry was doing these great 00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:09.860 marriage classes or marriage events or parenting events, things like that. And they'd have, 00:36:09.860 --> 00:36:15.060 you know, 60 people show up. That's great. Unless you're a church of 4,000 people and 60 people 00:36:15.060 --> 00:36:22.060 drop in the bucket of what would have come had they known about it. And so, uh, Joey kind of created 00:36:22.060 --> 00:36:29.260 this engine, uh, to come alongside environments or events like that is like the first marriage event. 00:36:29.260 --> 00:36:34.300 They did, they had like 300 people show up versus 60. Uh, so it was like, oh, wow, this works. So we did 00:36:34.300 --> 00:36:39.180 marriage, we did parenting, uh, we did an apologetics thing. We brought in Robbie's group. Uh, one of these 00:36:39.180 --> 00:36:44.060 guys from Houston came in, uh, did a couple of things in each one of these, you know, we're having hundreds 00:36:44.060 --> 00:36:50.620 of people show up versus, you know, dozens. Uh, and so since that was working, um, now we're offering 00:36:50.620 --> 00:36:56.380 some classes and again, do the same thing. It's, uh, it offers environments for things that, uh, 00:36:56.380 --> 00:37:00.860 we don't either cover in messages or we still have another environment to do it. So I mentioned earlier, 00:37:00.860 --> 00:37:05.500 we have the kind of the knowing Jesus. So just basic intro to Christianity, one-on-one kind of stuff. 00:37:05.500 --> 00:37:11.020 Uh, I'm leading a class on how to study the Bible. And again, very intro oriented. Uh, we're going to 00:37:11.020 --> 00:37:15.100 have another one on how to share your faith. Uh, those are going to be Sunday mornings and cap 00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:19.420 them at two weeks. So that's where those are. So now we have like the one or two, you know, 00:37:19.420 --> 00:37:23.740 big event, you know, Sunday night type things. We have the two weeks, Sunday morning classes. 00:37:23.740 --> 00:37:30.060 We're going to offer, uh, starting to follow this Tuesday night, uh, longer format, uh, like 46 week 00:37:30.060 --> 00:37:35.180 classes where, you know, somebody comes off like a Sunday morning parenting class, but they really need 00:37:35.180 --> 00:37:40.700 more. We're going to offer a six week. That's more in depth. Uh, it's more kind of triage 00:37:40.700 --> 00:37:44.860 oriented for the families that really need that, you know, marriage, finance, faith and science, 00:37:44.860 --> 00:37:50.060 those kinds of things. So starting this fall, we'll have kind of three, that three pronged approach 00:37:50.060 --> 00:37:55.820 of events that are going to be a little more infrequent now because we have some class environments 00:37:55.820 --> 00:38:01.260 to do some of that. Right. Events, the two week class and the 46 week class. And, uh, again, 00:38:01.260 --> 00:38:05.500 they're not targeted to everybody. They're targeted at a subset by their very nature. But 00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:10.380 what we're finding is that subset is for a lot of those things, a lot larger than honestly, we wish it 00:38:10.380 --> 00:38:14.620 was, we wish that many people's marriages didn't need that kind of help, but they just do. 00:38:16.140 --> 00:38:20.940 And, uh, and that sort of thing. So offering that, we hope that, um, those become really 00:38:20.940 --> 00:38:26.380 feeder systems because people get either a excited, they get, you know, some tools or they get some 00:38:26.380 --> 00:38:30.540 help and some healing and they want to step into, okay, well, where can I get back? Well, 00:38:30.540 --> 00:38:34.860 you know what D groups or life group leadership or men's or women's, you know, those kinds of things. 00:38:34.860 --> 00:38:39.580 So we hope that all these things kind of, kind of feed each other and ask me two or three years if 00:38:39.580 --> 00:38:44.540 they are, I'll tell you. That's cool. I like that just because, you know, Jeff, every time I reflect 00:38:44.540 --> 00:38:48.380 back on the way that many of us were brought up, I feel like there's an aspect that the church is 00:38:48.380 --> 00:38:51.820 missing in the absence of Sunday school. And I feel like what you're doing there brings a lot of that 00:38:51.820 --> 00:38:56.620 back because, you know, folks sometimes just need some time to sit in a classroom setting to kind of 00:38:56.620 --> 00:39:00.380 digest some of the things that we're talking about. A small group isn't always the best environment for 00:39:00.380 --> 00:39:04.620 that. Sometimes they just need that teacher kind of aspect to receive kind of information that you're 00:39:04.620 --> 00:39:09.100 talking about. You know, some, many churches just think of that in terms of like, we just, uh, 00:39:09.100 --> 00:39:13.740 got done talking in a past episode with somebody from Dave Ramsey, with Ken Schaefer from Dave Ramsey 00:39:13.740 --> 00:39:19.340 organization, you know, and that's one aspect of that, but in marriage and raising kids and so many 00:39:19.340 --> 00:39:23.820 different areas, I think folks need that kind of environment to just absorb the information. 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:27.340 Even that's going to run out at some point. Some people are going to need even more than that, 00:39:27.340 --> 00:39:33.180 but you think about if a four to six week intensive can't sufficiently meet the needs. Yeah, a small 00:39:33.180 --> 00:39:38.540 group leader, lay leader with an hour and a half each week and with, you know, a meal included, 00:39:38.540 --> 00:39:42.540 doesn't have time to dive into that, nor do they have the skill set. So it allows them to play to 00:39:42.540 --> 00:39:46.860 their strengths, which is relational. You know, it allows a digger to play to its strengths, which is, 00:39:46.860 --> 00:39:51.260 you know, biblical, theological, and relational. Men's, women's groups, those sorts of things. So as 00:39:51.260 --> 00:39:55.660 opposed to one or two environments having to be everything to everybody, hopefully we can just 00:39:55.660 --> 00:40:00.300 create more opportunities. Again, the challenge is not to let each of these things try to do 00:40:00.300 --> 00:40:05.740 everything because that's the natural pull of everything. We'll say, man, you know what, if this 00:40:05.740 --> 00:40:09.580 marriage group just became a small group, it'd be all fixed. No, we already have those over here. 00:40:09.580 --> 00:40:14.300 They need to jump out of this, you know, felt need-based thing into this more general community where 00:40:14.300 --> 00:40:20.380 they're, you know, just going to be with people and not with a situation, you know, that sort of thing. 00:40:20.380 --> 00:40:25.660 Um, so we're, we're going to bump our heads into some stuff, but it's neat that we're in a season 00:40:25.660 --> 00:40:29.500 right now where we've got the freedom to kind of experiment with some of those things and see what 00:40:29.500 --> 00:40:33.340 works and then keep those things and push off the stuff that doesn't work and then make those things 00:40:33.340 --> 00:40:40.540 that are working better. Yeah. Yeah. I love how there's, there's strategy that's intentionally 00:40:40.540 --> 00:40:46.540 in place for this working on your strengths, uh, a small group, a biblical community cannot be 00:40:46.540 --> 00:40:52.700 the catch-all for this because you don't have the opportunity to dive in into a smaller, more 00:40:52.700 --> 00:40:59.820 deeper relationship. The group leader may or may not be capable of that. Um, even getting into the nuances of, 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:05.500 of, of a divorce recovery of, of a, of a single parenting of, uh, you know, the issues that'll come 00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:11.340 up with there and having the separate classes to hone in on that, looking at what Austin Ridges 00:41:11.340 --> 00:41:18.540 developed in the intentionality towards this growth department, this area that now they're saying, 00:41:18.540 --> 00:41:24.620 here's this option of groups. Here's this option. If you're looking for something deeper, here's this issue. 00:41:24.620 --> 00:41:30.620 If you just need help, uh, equipping or working through felt needs, like it's, it's really starting 00:41:30.620 --> 00:41:36.140 to see, okay, there's a, there's a path here that people can work through while on that path. 00:41:36.140 --> 00:41:41.100 You're not hindering the growth of that as well. Um, the last thing, and it's one of the things that, 00:41:41.100 --> 00:41:46.220 that I love that we heard from, um, from Jared Kirkwood is, is you don't want, 00:41:47.260 --> 00:41:52.540 you don't want your small group to become a, a therapy where a therapy session where you're 00:41:52.540 --> 00:41:56.380 continually stuck in a circle. We've all had these groups where they just continually 00:41:56.380 --> 00:42:00.060 move all around and they're, they're stuck because of a certain person that's going through a certain 00:42:00.060 --> 00:42:05.180 issue. And, and those issues are important to get solved, but as a result of it, you don't always 00:42:05.180 --> 00:42:10.860 have the opportunity to take the entire group forward because of the issues that are stuck with, 00:42:10.860 --> 00:42:15.260 with the individual person. So setting up a model like this, that can dive into the felt need 00:42:15.260 --> 00:42:21.020 is so good. And so like, that's such a, um, an awesome option. Now I want to totally ask you 00:42:21.020 --> 00:42:26.780 about the church online implications of that and how you're utilizing this. Uh, but I know you guys 00:42:26.780 --> 00:42:31.980 aren't there yet with Austin Ridge. I love you anyway. Um, but what I do love that you're doing 00:42:31.980 --> 00:42:39.180 online with this is the idea of this podcast, um, that, that you've set up where you're, you're high. 00:42:39.180 --> 00:42:43.740 You know what, instead of me like talking about it, Jeff, just tell us a little bit about how you're 00:42:43.740 --> 00:42:49.820 using, uh, uh, the round tables, the podcast, like what that looks like for your church. 00:42:49.820 --> 00:42:55.180 So the round table, uh, well, okay. So the quip, uh, they had a podcast already and it would, 00:42:55.180 --> 00:42:59.020 it was creating follow-up resources for the events. So they already had the podcast channel 00:42:59.020 --> 00:43:04.780 established. The round table thing was a second idea, um, that, uh, Nathan Jennings, actually one 00:43:04.780 --> 00:43:09.020 of the guys, our communications department, video guy kind of jack of all trades came up with. He's 00:43:09.020 --> 00:43:13.100 like, we need something where we can talk about the stuff that we don't talk about anywhere else. 00:43:13.100 --> 00:43:18.460 Like where there's behind the scenes stuff or addressing a particular issue or, you know, 00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:21.820 theology one-on-one kind of stuff. He's like, would you guys be interested in doing that? And of course, 00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:27.020 Joey Ryder and I were both like, yeah, absolutely. So that got us working together on that. And what 00:43:27.020 --> 00:43:33.740 we've done is, um, create, I think we did 20 episodes kind of season one, uh, which is way too 00:43:33.740 --> 00:43:37.900 many episodes, obviously, but it's kind of got on a roll. So we just kept going with it. But what we 00:43:37.900 --> 00:43:42.140 did, we did some theology. We did some, you know, kind of the, kind of behind the scenes of how 00:43:42.140 --> 00:43:46.460 ministries function, why they do what they do, kind of what they're going for. Talk to, you know, 00:43:46.460 --> 00:43:50.540 some different leaders from different campuses, try to involve some lay leaders, uh, and just 00:43:50.540 --> 00:43:55.420 kind of experiment with, experimented with some different things. Um, and we're getting, you know, 00:43:55.420 --> 00:44:01.580 mixed, um, kind of mixed reviews on like, you know, format, so to speak. So for instance, we've learned 00:44:01.580 --> 00:44:09.580 that, uh, we get far fewer views on online, uh, videos, media, social media, than we get podcast 00:44:09.580 --> 00:44:14.460 listens. Uh, like we get, you know, 60 views, we'll get 300 listens. Okay. We're going to put our 00:44:14.460 --> 00:44:19.500 energies more into making sure we talk about, or we talk about these things in such a way that just 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:22.940 the audio makes sense without having to watch the video, you know, little things like that that we're 00:44:22.940 --> 00:44:28.540 going to do for this next season. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's been neat because it's given a great 00:44:28.540 --> 00:44:35.020 outlet for a lot of ministry leaders to talk about, um, you know, whether it's a particular issue 00:44:35.020 --> 00:44:40.540 it's important to them or a particular thing in their ministry that, uh, you know, unless you're 00:44:40.540 --> 00:44:44.220 on staff, you're never going to know some of this stuff. And so it's been kind of good to do some of 00:44:44.220 --> 00:44:50.300 that stuff. One by-product of that is it created a, uh, kind of a collaborative, uh, energy between 00:44:50.300 --> 00:44:54.780 not only me and Joey, but then other staff as well. So like the first one we did was me and our 00:44:54.780 --> 00:45:00.860 missions guide down elsewhere talking about, you know, missions and disciple making and, you know, 00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:04.620 are they two sides of the same coin or the different coins, things like that, that, 00:45:04.620 --> 00:45:09.980 you know, to have that conversation, you got to have a conversation, right? And that's what most 00:45:09.980 --> 00:45:16.220 church staffs don't have the luxury or the opportunity to sit down and do for a long enough 00:45:16.220 --> 00:45:19.820 time to really start peeling back some layers. And so that's given us an opportunity to do some of 00:45:19.820 --> 00:45:24.780 that, which is really leading to some neat conversations kind of in the hallway of around 00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:29.100 some other things. So it's been neat. That's cool. Well, and by the way, we're going to link to that, 00:45:29.100 --> 00:45:34.220 that podcast with, with you and Don, uh, I love Don. I love, I like you. I don't necessarily 00:45:34.220 --> 00:45:39.580 love you, but no, I love you. Um, but, and the, the wrestling with that was cool. But the thing 00:45:39.580 --> 00:45:44.540 that I really like about this and audience is what I want to kind of focus on here is, is that the 00:45:44.540 --> 00:45:51.980 podcast gives your ministry leaders a voice in a realm that isn't necessarily utilized, let's say, 00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:59.820 well, now all sorts of people will listen to a sermon podcast, but transparently there's dozens of 00:45:59.820 --> 00:46:05.820 dozens of different places to listen to the same sermon podcast, everything from multiple services, 00:46:05.820 --> 00:46:10.300 any given weekend at multiple campuses. There's probably a church online broadcast. There's 00:46:10.300 --> 00:46:15.020 probably a Facebook broadcast. There's probably something that's eventually uploaded on, on YouTube. 00:46:15.420 --> 00:46:20.780 And so like a lot of energy in the average church in America, go into a technologically savvy 00:46:20.780 --> 00:46:26.540 average church in America goes towards launching that podcast for the sermon. Uh, but what we're seeing 00:46:26.540 --> 00:46:32.620 here is, is you're utilizing the podcast as an opportunity to highlight ministry opportunities 00:46:32.620 --> 00:46:38.860 and other things that are happening to the church to pull people in and creating it as a, as a shareable 00:46:38.860 --> 00:46:45.740 content, linking to it on Facebook. And all of a sudden now the people who are listening have ways to 00:46:45.740 --> 00:46:51.740 have shareable content that'll pull people into the ministry of your church, not just through Sunday 00:46:51.740 --> 00:46:56.540 services with that. And so you're trying to get somebody involved in a, in a group. There's a 00:46:56.540 --> 00:47:02.700 podcast on, um, parenting, which I know is one that I, that I've heard recently. And so you've got 00:47:02.700 --> 00:47:07.180 somebody who's struggling with that and maybe it's a single mom that you want to share. You share that 00:47:07.180 --> 00:47:13.180 resource in an audio format. That's a front door that gives the person sharing an opportunity to pull 00:47:13.180 --> 00:47:18.620 them into the church that gives the church an opportunity to receive somebody, um, into the 00:47:18.620 --> 00:47:25.180 ministry. And so like, I love the idea of, of talking about the ministries and utilizing podcasts, 00:47:25.180 --> 00:47:30.220 you know, put the podcast on a blog post. All of a sudden, now you've got an easily web-based 00:47:30.220 --> 00:47:36.140 shareable format. That's got podcast audio on it that can pull people from the outside into specific 00:47:36.140 --> 00:47:40.860 areas of your church's ministry. So like when I saw that, Jeff, I got to tell you, and I got to, 00:47:40.860 --> 00:47:45.340 I got to, uh, I think I did. I texted him immediately. I was like, this is incredible. Well done, 00:47:45.340 --> 00:47:51.740 but, uh, definitely want to see more from that. Well, man, this has been a great podcast. Like, 00:47:51.740 --> 00:47:58.380 I just, I'm excited about seeing what God's doing at Austin Ridge and even this shift of discipleship 00:47:58.380 --> 00:48:04.940 that even within the past, um, you know, so many years, um, I'm not saying it happened because I left, 00:48:04.940 --> 00:48:10.620 but conveniently, I think I left. And then there was this shift that happened. Uh, but as a result, 00:48:10.620 --> 00:48:16.380 we're seeing, um, more of this and more intentionality with that. So, man, this has 00:48:16.380 --> 00:48:20.300 been great. Ray, as we're landing the plane, any, any questions or thoughts here? 00:48:20.860 --> 00:48:25.340 Yeah, Jeff, I just love that you guys are treating discipleship more like art than science. 00:48:25.340 --> 00:48:29.180 You know, it seems like you guys are really just taking a look at this and saying, no, 00:48:29.180 --> 00:48:33.260 people have different pathways to get to discipleship and we're going to help them find their best path, 00:48:33.260 --> 00:48:37.980 but we're not going to tell them which path to take. We're going to help guide them along the way. 00:48:37.980 --> 00:48:44.380 In the grand scheme of creating a single path or creating multiple paths that will get people to the 00:48:44.380 --> 00:48:50.460 same destination. I, I, I think the one thing that Austin Ridge does well is they figured out how to 00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:56.700 create multiple paths that funnel people, uh, eventually to the same destination. And so that's been 00:48:57.260 --> 00:49:03.100 really exciting to see that, that develop in recent years. Jeff, man, any, any closing thoughts as we're, 00:49:03.100 --> 00:49:07.660 we're wrapping up? No, man, I'm excited about what you guys are doing. I'm curious to see where the 00:49:07.660 --> 00:49:13.340 church online platform, uh, platforming, all those things, uh, kind of where it goes, you know, 00:49:13.340 --> 00:49:19.740 I'd love to have another conversation online or offline. Um, you know, just about all that stuff, 00:49:19.740 --> 00:49:24.940 because I'm, I'm sure that, you know, as we, you know, as we get into year two, year three, 00:49:25.820 --> 00:49:32.620 month three, who knows, uh, with just this whole D group idea, uh, our disciple making efforts, 00:49:32.620 --> 00:49:39.900 uh, there's going to be a, an itch for how else. Yeah. And fill in the blank. And, um, 00:49:40.460 --> 00:49:45.740 yeah. So I'll, I'll just be curious to see where that goes. So I'm excited to be a part of, uh, 00:49:45.740 --> 00:49:50.220 this with you guys. So it's fun to still be in ministry together, even though you're in Florida, 00:49:50.220 --> 00:49:55.660 I'm still in Austin, man. I love it. And, uh, I've got a, I got to figure out a time when I'm 00:49:55.660 --> 00:50:00.540 flying back out to Austin to, uh, to stop by. I, there was, there was a business thing. I thought 00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:04.140 I was going to be out there all the time and, and, and, you know, it just didn't work out, but, uh, 00:50:04.140 --> 00:50:09.260 no, we're definitely, um, excited about what's happening at the Ridge. It's interesting. 00:50:09.260 --> 00:50:12.780 And then I'm going to, I'm going to put this bug in your ear for, for online. And then I'm going to 00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:20.220 say this, a lot of churches will look at church online as, Oh, this is somebody who's abandoning 00:50:20.220 --> 00:50:27.260 community. Uh, and so, uh, I'm an isolationist. Uh, I don't want to be around people in church online 00:50:27.260 --> 00:50:34.940 is my opportunity to escape the world around me and just isolate myself and do church and on a couch 00:50:34.940 --> 00:50:41.580 in my underwear. Um, and while that may be an option, and once again, you can't force people 00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:47.580 down any one given direction. Um, I challenge churches to look at it, not as the abandonment 00:50:47.580 --> 00:50:52.620 of community, but potentially discipling someone to the place that they birth a new community. 00:50:52.620 --> 00:50:58.140 Uh, and so it's kind of looking through it. Maybe it's looking through rose colored stained glass 00:50:58.140 --> 00:51:02.300 glasses. I don't know if that's the rose colored stained glass glasses. That's the right thing. 00:51:02.300 --> 00:51:07.500 Yeah. It's a song somewhere about that. Uh, or maybe, maybe it's just the reality of, 00:51:07.500 --> 00:51:13.100 Hey, this is what could be. This is the, the, the pipe dream down the road, but that's more of the 00:51:13.100 --> 00:51:18.780 challenge I think before us. And, and we've blogged about it and talk about it, but the challenge before 00:51:18.780 --> 00:51:25.820 the church to do discipleship, uh, online, because I mean, you and I, Jeff, we're in two different time 00:51:25.820 --> 00:51:32.940 zones. Uh, Ray and I live in the same city, but I'll be honest. I see Ray once a month in the physical 00:51:32.940 --> 00:51:39.420 space. And so, you know, even in that context, uh, it's learning how to utilize this, not as a 00:51:39.420 --> 00:51:45.580 replacement of community, but as an opportunity to empower and to create new communities where our 00:51:45.580 --> 00:51:52.620 people are. That's the dream anyway. So we, I would love to offline a conversation about that. And, uh, 00:51:52.620 --> 00:51:59.740 I'm sure we could probably make another podcast out of that too. So, Hey man, I wrote down disciple 00:51:59.740 --> 00:52:08.060 making without pants is all I wrote down. Nice. Somebody buy that.com right now. Disciple 00:52:08.060 --> 00:52:16.300 making without pants sitting in your underwear doing discipleship. I'm like, Hey, that'll sell. 00:52:16.300 --> 00:52:25.100 I might buy that in redirect. Oh no, he will. He will. I think, I think I will do that. Let's go 00:52:25.100 --> 00:52:29.500 ahead and do it in the show notes. It's how confident I am. This has me too written all over 00:52:29.500 --> 00:52:40.780 it, bro. Disciple. That's awesome. Man. That's why I miss Jeff more. All right. So, Hey, for, uh, 00:52:40.780 --> 00:52:45.740 for Ray, for, uh, for Jeff, Hey, this has been Jeffrey with the church digital. It's been a great 00:52:45.740 --> 00:52:50.860 podcast looking forward to what, Hey, we've got elevation coming up next. I'll go and plug that 00:52:50.860 --> 00:52:58.940 next podcast. We've got, uh, elevation. We've got Danny, Danielle Hicks, who's the pastor of watch 00:52:58.940 --> 00:53:03.820 parties. That was, that was her title, right? It was watch parties. The only pastor in America who's got 00:53:03.820 --> 00:53:09.020 parties in her job title. Um, I got to tell you, I'm a little envious of that, but we're going to be 00:53:09.020 --> 00:53:15.580 talking about how, uh, elevation uses church online to create, to cluster these people together, to 00:53:15.580 --> 00:53:20.540 create discipleship, physical discipleship groups scattered across the country. So it's a great, 00:53:20.540 --> 00:53:28.460 uh, conversation, especially tied to a church anywhere. So Jeff, thank you. Uh, Ray. Thank you. 00:53:28.460 --> 00:53:32.620 Audience. Thank you very much. We'll catch you next time here at the church digital podcast. 00:53:32.620 --> 00:53:33.420 Y'all have a good day.