WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.720 As we are doing this, it's got to be for discipleship and building a community, not for building 00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:11.900 your own brand and an audience so you can exploit yourself for notoriety. 00:00:12.180 --> 00:00:13.760 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:18.560 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:19.000 --> 00:00:23.040 But more than TED for Tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:23.820 --> 00:00:25.740 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:26.560 --> 00:00:28.760 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:29.100 --> 00:00:32.280 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:33.040 --> 00:00:35.320 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this? 00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:40.320 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, 00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:45.980 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:46.580 --> 00:00:47.980 digitally and physically. 00:00:48.740 --> 00:00:49.440 Our heart? 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:54.860 That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple making that will revolutionize 00:00:54.860 --> 00:00:55.620 your church. 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:58.960 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:59.100 --> 00:01:00.080 All right. 00:01:00.140 --> 00:01:02.480 Hey, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:01:02.720 --> 00:01:04.320 This is episode 210. 00:01:05.060 --> 00:01:07.900 My name is Jeff, and it is a pleasure to be here today. 00:01:07.980 --> 00:01:13.700 We are broadcasting live on social media right now with all of the Church Digital Podcasts 00:01:13.700 --> 00:01:14.820 for this season three. 00:01:15.280 --> 00:01:18.460 We are broadcasting live and trying to get that feel. 00:01:18.460 --> 00:01:24.240 So if you're watching on social media, feel free to tag us, throw some comments there within 00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.260 the chat, engage with us, and we'll be talking here in a little bit. 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:29.240 I've got a special guest. 00:01:29.320 --> 00:01:30.720 We'll get to there in a little bit. 00:01:31.080 --> 00:01:34.380 By the way, we have done something really cool. 00:01:34.440 --> 00:01:39.380 Like, we talk about the Church Digital so much, and we've got all this content, but when we 00:01:39.380 --> 00:01:43.680 do Digital Church, we talk about how content has to lead to community. 00:01:43.820 --> 00:01:44.760 Hopefully, you know this. 00:01:44.820 --> 00:01:46.680 Our services, they have to lead to community. 00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:48.880 The content has to lead to community. 00:01:49.060 --> 00:01:53.360 And what we've done is we've launched the Digital Church Network. 00:01:53.560 --> 00:01:57.300 We've launched the community through the DCN that's called FAM. 00:01:57.300 --> 00:01:58.500 So here's what I want you to do. 00:01:58.660 --> 00:02:00.400 Go open up your web browser right now. 00:02:00.460 --> 00:02:02.280 Even if you're watching on demand, you can pause it. 00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:02.720 It's cool. 00:02:03.140 --> 00:02:05.640 If you're listening on the podcast, don't die in the car. 00:02:06.340 --> 00:02:11.280 Make your way over to fam.digitalchurch.network. 00:02:11.440 --> 00:02:13.560 And let's get you connected over there. 00:02:13.980 --> 00:02:14.820 Join the community. 00:02:15.000 --> 00:02:20.940 It's free, and there is a ton of people with some really innovative, interesting ideas in 00:02:20.940 --> 00:02:21.080 there. 00:02:21.080 --> 00:02:26.220 So if you're one of these people that are doing digital ministry or metaverse, maybe you're 00:02:26.220 --> 00:02:27.980 a pastor, maybe you're a staff person. 00:02:28.380 --> 00:02:29.800 Maybe you're a high-level volunteer. 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:33.940 Maybe you're somebody who's got dreams and just trying to figure out even how to get started 00:02:33.940 --> 00:02:35.000 with some of that. 00:02:35.080 --> 00:02:40.840 There's plenty of people over in the FAM, in Digital Church Network, to get connected 00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:41.820 with there. 00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:42.360 So do it. 00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:46.980 And we're going to be talking a lot here about Digital Church Network, continuing on here 00:02:46.980 --> 00:02:48.480 within this episode. 00:02:48.480 --> 00:02:54.500 I want to introduce to you my guest who is currently looking away, and I want to wait and stall 00:02:54.500 --> 00:02:55.780 until he can come back to the screen. 00:02:55.880 --> 00:02:57.160 I want to introduce Chesley Lundy. 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:57.720 I'm here. 00:02:58.100 --> 00:03:00.440 Chesley, where were you going, bro? 00:03:00.520 --> 00:03:02.580 I'm like looking at the little thumbnail on the screen. 00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:08.040 I noticed that I look like an angel behind me, and so I was trying to close the shutters. 00:03:08.500 --> 00:03:10.640 So, but, you know, what can I do? 00:03:11.180 --> 00:03:12.060 That was awesome. 00:03:12.120 --> 00:03:15.620 Just the moment where I'm like, hey, let's bring Chesley Lundy into the conversation, 00:03:15.780 --> 00:03:16.880 and he's now off camera. 00:03:16.940 --> 00:03:18.480 You're usually more wordy. 00:03:18.740 --> 00:03:20.300 And so I thought I had time. 00:03:21.740 --> 00:03:23.220 Yeah, I'm trying. 00:03:23.220 --> 00:03:26.800 And Garrett Silgy, producer of the podcast here, has been like, Jeff, you need to shut 00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:26.980 up. 00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:28.240 You need to talk less. 00:03:28.380 --> 00:03:29.580 So I'm working on it. 00:03:29.620 --> 00:03:30.800 I'm working on talking less here. 00:03:31.080 --> 00:03:33.620 So which means here for this podcast, Chesley, you're going to have all the fun. 00:03:33.700 --> 00:03:34.720 We're just going to let you talk. 00:03:34.800 --> 00:03:35.020 Yeah. 00:03:35.220 --> 00:03:36.200 For the next hour. 00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:37.260 And so that's great. 00:03:37.480 --> 00:03:38.520 But really the heart. 00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.840 Actually, Chesley, just even set it up here. 00:03:40.940 --> 00:03:41.560 I'll shut up. 00:03:42.300 --> 00:03:43.500 Talk to us a little bit here. 00:03:43.580 --> 00:03:47.260 Tell us who you are, what you're about, and how you ended up here. 00:03:47.500 --> 00:03:49.880 Hey, most of you guys probably watching know me. 00:03:50.000 --> 00:03:50.860 I'm Chesley Lundy. 00:03:51.140 --> 00:03:56.200 I am helping Jeff lead the Digital Church Network. 00:03:56.200 --> 00:04:01.440 And so, again, that's fam.digitalchurch.network if you want to join us. 00:04:02.260 --> 00:04:09.220 And we are helping digital missionaries, digital pastors, digital church planters on finding 00:04:09.220 --> 00:04:10.040 community. 00:04:10.640 --> 00:04:13.240 And also, how do you do this digital thing? 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:14.920 The reality is none of us are pros. 00:04:15.100 --> 00:04:15.940 We're all veterans. 00:04:16.860 --> 00:04:21.240 And if you want to be called an expert, you just got to be two steps ahead in an age of 00:04:21.240 --> 00:04:21.660 disruption. 00:04:21.660 --> 00:04:25.060 And so that's what we get to do, which I'm excited about. 00:04:25.700 --> 00:04:31.680 And we're excited to help you do what God's called you to do. 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:37.380 And if you want to be a part of that community and hang out with people that are like-minded, 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:38.540 we'd love to have you there. 00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:41.040 Awesome. 00:04:41.160 --> 00:04:41.300 Yeah. 00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:42.960 So this is going to be a great conversation. 00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:46.280 We're talking a little bit on the Digital Church Network side. 00:04:46.420 --> 00:04:54.620 Now, by the way, Chesley Reed, Verde Soto, says hello. 00:04:55.300 --> 00:04:55.980 Hey, what's up, man? 00:04:55.980 --> 00:04:59.840 Evidently, Reed's looking, watching over at LinkedIn. 00:04:59.900 --> 00:05:00.080 Yeah. 00:05:00.140 --> 00:05:00.800 So there you go. 00:05:00.800 --> 00:05:05.240 So Reed is with, he's like a programmer with Subsplash. 00:05:05.280 --> 00:05:06.020 He's amazing. 00:05:06.300 --> 00:05:11.340 If you guys need some help doing just about anything with websites and stuff, he's the man. 00:05:12.700 --> 00:05:13.060 Awesome. 00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:13.520 There you go. 00:05:13.520 --> 00:05:18.000 Hey, Reed, we love our friends over at Subsplash. 00:05:18.120 --> 00:05:22.480 So Subsplash, feel free to make the check payable to digitalchurch.network. 00:05:22.740 --> 00:05:23.360 That'll be great. 00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:25.400 No, Patrick Lencioni does that on his podcast. 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.240 He's like, it's an unpaid sponsorship right here. 00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:30.440 We just did that. 00:05:30.780 --> 00:05:31.260 There you go. 00:05:31.340 --> 00:05:32.200 It doesn't get any... 00:05:32.200 --> 00:05:33.020 Let's just be honest. 00:05:33.200 --> 00:05:36.080 They're all a little unpaid at this point. 00:05:36.140 --> 00:05:37.420 But hey, we got to work on that. 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:40.040 So hey, listen, here's what we're talking about here today. 00:05:40.500 --> 00:05:46.360 We're talking about how to launch a digital church and or a digital ministry. 00:05:46.600 --> 00:05:50.500 Like so much of when we talk with people, they have great ideas. 00:05:50.660 --> 00:05:56.000 Maybe it's a planter wanting to start a new church, or maybe it's even somebody that's 00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:01.700 a digital church at a, or excuse me, it's a digital pastor at an existing church. 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:07.580 And they just, they have an idea to do something different, maybe with leadership support, maybe 00:06:07.580 --> 00:06:08.620 not with leadership support. 00:06:08.620 --> 00:06:12.440 And so what we've come up with, and Chesley's been, man, this is like his baby. 00:06:12.540 --> 00:06:17.920 This is the thing he's been working on so hard is to create really this launch pad, this 00:06:17.920 --> 00:06:25.060 start to help people formalize and get started in doing something new in digital space. 00:06:25.140 --> 00:06:29.780 And so I get the pleasure to like facilitate a conversation and hang out with you guys. 00:06:29.960 --> 00:06:34.980 And by the way, now Spencer Rogers says, hey guys, from LinkedIn as well. 00:06:34.980 --> 00:06:40.820 So LinkedIn is like the platform of choice here with the DCN, with this conversation on the 00:06:40.820 --> 00:06:41.680 Church Digital Podcast. 00:06:42.080 --> 00:06:47.040 So Chesley, like just a little bit, let me ask you this question, just even to set up the 00:06:47.040 --> 00:06:47.580 conversation. 00:06:47.880 --> 00:06:53.680 Why are you so passionate about this, about helping people get started, about helping people launch 00:06:53.680 --> 00:06:55.340 in to something like this? 00:06:55.340 --> 00:07:06.120 Yeah, I think when you look at the landscape of church, we are all now on a level playing 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:06.460 field. 00:07:07.420 --> 00:07:10.520 And the reality is church is somewhat behind the times. 00:07:11.900 --> 00:07:17.880 And if you, I think Erwin McManus said this, if you want to be a futurist in the church space, 00:07:17.880 --> 00:07:20.260 you just got to look at what's already being done. 00:07:21.040 --> 00:07:23.920 And so I think we have... 00:07:23.920 --> 00:07:24.620 It sounds like Erwin. 00:07:24.720 --> 00:07:25.320 Yeah, it does. 00:07:25.380 --> 00:07:26.060 It really does. 00:07:26.200 --> 00:07:32.540 And so I think you can look at what's happening in the business world and you can look at how 00:07:32.540 --> 00:07:40.800 online businesses have launched over the past 20, 25 years and really see a formulaic pattern. 00:07:41.300 --> 00:07:47.860 And I don't believe that the church world is much different than that because they are looking 00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:49.780 at how do you gain attention? 00:07:49.960 --> 00:07:51.360 How do you build relationships? 00:07:51.640 --> 00:07:59.600 How do you share permission marketing to begin to cultivate a community? 00:07:59.860 --> 00:08:05.600 And so if we take those principles, we can apply them to the church world and begin to 00:08:05.600 --> 00:08:11.320 plant digital churches or faith communities that have an online presence. 00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:13.940 And so I'm excited about that. 00:08:14.060 --> 00:08:18.740 I think the church has an ability to be global like never before. 00:08:19.040 --> 00:08:20.820 I think we're actually flipped. 00:08:20.820 --> 00:08:28.020 We used to be the global ecclesia or the global diaspora with local ecclesias. 00:08:28.200 --> 00:08:31.960 Now we're a global ecclesia with local diasporas. 00:08:32.400 --> 00:08:34.800 And so that's really exciting for me. 00:08:35.020 --> 00:08:40.600 And I want to be on the front edge of helping others find out what their passion is and the 00:08:40.600 --> 00:08:45.120 people that God's called them to reach and to serve and help them do that in a way that 00:08:45.120 --> 00:08:46.800 will expand the gospel. 00:08:48.720 --> 00:08:49.560 That's awesome. 00:08:49.700 --> 00:08:52.560 And there's so much of that that's happening within FAM. 00:08:52.600 --> 00:08:54.920 And it's been such a joy to even start to meet these people. 00:08:55.020 --> 00:08:55.760 But I can digress. 00:08:55.880 --> 00:08:59.360 We're going to talk about FAM throughout this entire thing, I'm sure. 00:08:59.440 --> 00:09:01.600 But let's get into this launch pad. 00:09:01.680 --> 00:09:05.640 If we're launching something new digitally, what do we need to be looking at? 00:09:05.640 --> 00:09:12.660 And so I've got here, Chesley, from his list, from his launch pad, number one, rely on the 00:09:12.660 --> 00:09:13.320 Spirit's leading. 00:09:13.480 --> 00:09:16.560 Number one, rely on the Spirit's leading. 00:09:16.780 --> 00:09:18.280 So Chesley, talk to us a little bit here. 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:20.300 What are you thinking here with this one? 00:09:20.580 --> 00:09:20.760 Yeah. 00:09:20.920 --> 00:09:25.680 So a good friend, Chris Caputo, says, you can go, but you might not be sent. 00:09:25.980 --> 00:09:31.300 And so we want to make sure that the Holy Spirit is sending us. 00:09:31.300 --> 00:09:36.600 And that takes time in prayer and listening to the Holy Spirit's leading. 00:09:36.980 --> 00:09:43.080 And obviously, with those of us that like to build things that are new, we oftentimes start 00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:47.840 going and say, hey, God, we need you to get in on the goal. 00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.740 And I have that same propensity to do that. 00:09:52.800 --> 00:09:59.600 And so I have realized over the years in church planting, replanting churches, when I do that, 00:09:59.700 --> 00:10:00.800 God doesn't bless it. 00:10:00.800 --> 00:10:11.040 And we need to begin in prayer and in fasting and in seeking God's face and be willing to sit and wait 00:10:11.040 --> 00:10:14.900 and be patient until the Holy Spirit tells us what to do. 00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:17.140 Jesus wasn't slow. 00:10:17.400 --> 00:10:19.740 If you look at his ministry, he was not slow. 00:10:20.040 --> 00:10:21.820 He was on the go most of the time. 00:10:22.100 --> 00:10:30.360 But he had instilled in as a discipline in his ministry, the busier he got, more often and the 00:10:30.360 --> 00:10:36.420 longer he got away with the Holy Spirit to commune with the Father to figure out his marching 00:10:36.420 --> 00:10:37.020 instructions. 00:10:37.180 --> 00:10:41.820 And as somebody that was in the military, if you don't have your orders, you're not going 00:10:41.820 --> 00:10:42.620 until you do. 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:49.040 And so if we are somebody that is supposed to reach people for Jesus and plant churches, 00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:50.760 those are orders from heaven. 00:10:50.860 --> 00:10:52.480 That's called apostolic ministry. 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.860 Apostolic means sent ones. 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:02.320 It was literally a government official on orders from the Caesar, if you will, in Roman times. 00:11:02.520 --> 00:11:07.240 And so we need to have that same posture when it comes to the Holy Spirit. 00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:09.000 Awesome. 00:11:09.400 --> 00:11:11.680 Let me ask you just a follow-up question on that. 00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.380 So we're following the Spirit. 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:20.680 We're trying to engage, but we're doing something different, something that the people that we 00:11:20.680 --> 00:11:25.600 normally look to for spiritual guidance, the church, the pastors, maybe they don't see 00:11:25.600 --> 00:11:26.780 and they don't understand. 00:11:26.780 --> 00:11:31.000 Like so many of these conversations I've talked to with people within the established church 00:11:31.000 --> 00:11:35.420 and even planters wanting to do something different, where it's like, is this okay? 00:11:35.540 --> 00:11:36.800 Is it okay to have these thoughts? 00:11:36.900 --> 00:11:42.200 My leadership, my family, my wife, my friends, nobody understands this. 00:11:42.700 --> 00:11:43.880 What does it mean? 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:49.420 Like how do we find the Spirit, rely on the Spirit when those around us that we normally 00:11:49.420 --> 00:11:52.620 fall back on don't necessarily even understand this? 00:11:52.620 --> 00:11:53.020 Yeah. 00:11:53.560 --> 00:11:57.980 Another friend, Rob, he says, prayer is the work. 00:11:58.280 --> 00:12:05.740 And I'm pretty darn sure he stole it from someone else because I think it was Oswald Chambers that 00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:07.880 wrote that. 00:12:08.200 --> 00:12:09.380 Prayer is the work. 00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:17.520 And the reality is when the external world doesn't understand something, our job is not to get 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:19.900 mad and to get angry and said, I'll show you. 00:12:20.300 --> 00:12:28.020 The job is to go back to the Holy Spirit, submit, be still, know that he's God. 00:12:28.380 --> 00:12:35.020 Don't do things in an act of vengeance and an act of, I'm going to prove it to you, but just have 00:12:35.020 --> 00:12:38.480 the silent confidence that this is what God has called me to do. 00:12:38.660 --> 00:12:40.580 When you have that, you'll have peace. 00:12:40.580 --> 00:12:46.580 If you don't have peace in when you're going and you're moving out of anxiety or moving out of 00:12:46.580 --> 00:12:52.480 this emotional space of, well, they don't understand, so I've got to show them, that's 00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:57.360 probably when you need to take a step back and listen and wait on the Holy Spirit. 00:12:57.540 --> 00:12:58.900 And when he tells you to go, go. 00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:01.040 If he doesn't tell you to go, don't go. 00:13:01.400 --> 00:13:02.120 Like just wait. 00:13:02.840 --> 00:13:05.200 And internet's going to be there tomorrow, right? 00:13:06.800 --> 00:13:10.300 So God wants people saved more than you do. 00:13:10.580 --> 00:13:16.580 And so if that is the case, he knows what you should be doing, and we should always be in 00:13:16.580 --> 00:13:17.540 step with the Spirit. 00:13:17.740 --> 00:13:18.660 That's what Paul said. 00:13:18.780 --> 00:13:20.420 Walk in step with the Spirit. 00:13:20.560 --> 00:13:21.580 Don't get out ahead of him. 00:13:21.880 --> 00:13:22.980 Don't be behind him. 00:13:23.540 --> 00:13:24.040 Do both. 00:13:24.160 --> 00:13:30.040 And if your people and your friends and your leaders, they don't get it, be humble, be 00:13:30.040 --> 00:13:32.200 gracious, keep praying. 00:13:34.760 --> 00:13:35.400 Love it. 00:13:36.160 --> 00:13:40.560 Getting grounded in prayer and having him guide in those steps, that's so crucial. 00:13:40.580 --> 00:13:42.300 Especially as the innovator. 00:13:42.400 --> 00:13:46.820 And that ties really well into just even the theme here with season three on the podcast. 00:13:47.020 --> 00:13:54.420 This idea of being the humble innovator, the humble disruptor, where we're not trying to 00:13:54.420 --> 00:14:00.940 upset the dance card for a purpose of destroying an old model to do something new. 00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:04.420 But it's we're helping others see a new opportunity. 00:14:04.420 --> 00:14:06.640 And we're leading out in that space with it. 00:14:06.760 --> 00:14:08.420 And so love the idea here. 00:14:08.760 --> 00:14:11.060 Number one, relying on the Spirit's lead. 00:14:11.180 --> 00:14:15.220 Number two, we've got clarify your missional identity. 00:14:16.020 --> 00:14:17.700 Clarify your missional identity. 00:14:17.860 --> 00:14:20.400 What are we digging into here, Chester, with number two? 00:14:20.400 --> 00:14:22.400 Yeah, clarifying your missional identity. 00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:24.540 This is who has God called you to? 00:14:25.340 --> 00:14:27.680 What is God calling you to say? 00:14:28.160 --> 00:14:30.680 And how is God calling you to be different? 00:14:31.380 --> 00:14:38.300 And so when you're looking at a community, the reality is the church is going to look similar 00:14:38.300 --> 00:14:39.380 no matter what. 00:14:40.020 --> 00:14:42.460 But God has called you to reach somebody different. 00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:45.180 Paul said, to the Jews, I was like a Jew. 00:14:45.280 --> 00:14:46.760 To the Greeks, I was like a Greek. 00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:55.440 I was willing, this is Paul writing, I was willing to be what I needed to be for the cultures 00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:59.460 that I was set in so that by all means, I might win some. 00:15:00.100 --> 00:15:03.820 And so the goal is to find out who has God called you to? 00:15:04.620 --> 00:15:09.000 Paul wanted to be called to the Jews, knew he was called to the Gentiles. 00:15:09.540 --> 00:15:11.680 Like he wanted to be called to the Jews. 00:15:11.780 --> 00:15:13.820 I want to say that he wrote that in Romans. 00:15:13.820 --> 00:15:17.940 I want to tell my brothers about Jesus and I want to show them. 00:15:18.360 --> 00:15:23.540 But the reality is God had called him to the Gentiles to be the apostle to the Gentiles. 00:15:24.000 --> 00:15:26.800 And so there is somebody that God has called you to. 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:28.820 You need to know who that is. 00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:34.280 And then you need to know how to express the gospel in a way that they will understand. 00:15:34.780 --> 00:15:43.420 If you look at the way Peter talked to the Jews in Acts 2, and then you look how Paul talked 00:15:43.420 --> 00:15:51.000 to the Athenians later on in Acts, you see two very different presentations of the gospel. 00:15:51.660 --> 00:15:53.760 Paul understood the Greek culture. 00:15:53.760 --> 00:15:57.040 He understood the religious landscape. 00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:01.160 And he understood their philosophical DNA. 00:16:01.760 --> 00:16:07.980 And so he used all of those to communicate in a way that was specific for the Athenians. 00:16:08.320 --> 00:16:13.320 The reality is I can't talk well to certain groups of people. 00:16:13.640 --> 00:16:15.440 I am not going to connect with them. 00:16:16.060 --> 00:16:19.880 But there are some groups of people that God has called me specifically to. 00:16:20.440 --> 00:16:21.760 And I know who they are. 00:16:22.020 --> 00:16:23.620 And you know who yours are. 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:24.820 That's a missional zeal. 00:16:24.820 --> 00:16:27.380 Who has God given you passion to reach? 00:16:27.860 --> 00:16:28.660 Missional uniqueness. 00:16:28.660 --> 00:16:34.340 When you're building a community and mission, how are you unique versus everybody else out 00:16:34.340 --> 00:16:34.540 there? 00:16:34.660 --> 00:16:38.400 And what are you going to communicate in a way that those people understand? 00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:40.220 That's missional message. 00:16:42.100 --> 00:16:43.120 That's beautiful. 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:49.100 Now, let me ask, because what you just said actually probably flies counterculture to a lot 00:16:49.100 --> 00:16:51.480 of what we find in the church today. 00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:55.960 The established church, you know, they're trying to reach everybody within a neighborhood. 00:16:56.460 --> 00:16:56.520 Yeah. 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:56.760 Yeah. 00:16:56.760 --> 00:17:03.240 Now, sometimes there's narrowing that the, you know, the demographic or the type of people 00:17:03.240 --> 00:17:04.000 that are in the neighborhood. 00:17:04.000 --> 00:17:09.080 But, you know, we're trying to be everything to everyone in the physical church environment 00:17:09.080 --> 00:17:15.020 is more practically, we're going to try to blend away all the contextualizations. 00:17:15.340 --> 00:17:16.940 The contextualizations don't exist. 00:17:17.300 --> 00:17:20.440 We're just getting a message out there hoping that it's going to stick. 00:17:20.940 --> 00:17:24.560 What you're actually talking about is a much more narrow scope. 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:27.200 You know, Seth Godin talks about creating a message. 00:17:27.200 --> 00:17:28.240 He's not Christian. 00:17:28.380 --> 00:17:28.680 He's Jewish. 00:17:28.760 --> 00:17:29.600 He's a marketing guy, though. 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:35.020 And he talks about creating a message in a way that it's specifically for someone and 00:17:35.020 --> 00:17:37.660 getting them to own that message. 00:17:38.020 --> 00:17:43.600 Now, in a digital space here with this, with the missional identity, like, it sounds like 00:17:43.600 --> 00:17:45.520 you're talking about really narrowing that down. 00:17:45.580 --> 00:17:46.180 Is that where you're going? 00:17:46.180 --> 00:17:47.680 Yeah, the riches are in the niches. 00:17:49.940 --> 00:17:56.160 So, yeah, I think that is absolutely, I'm unapologetically saying that. 00:17:56.220 --> 00:18:01.500 And the reality is the churches that do this in a physical space actually are more successful 00:18:01.500 --> 00:18:02.020 as well. 00:18:02.280 --> 00:18:05.680 When they hone in on who God has called them to reach, they're more successful. 00:18:06.220 --> 00:18:11.840 Now, if you want to unleash disciples where they live, work, learn, or play, now you can 00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:12.700 be for anybody. 00:18:12.860 --> 00:18:14.520 Because the reality is you're not for anybody. 00:18:14.660 --> 00:18:15.240 You're for leaders. 00:18:15.940 --> 00:18:16.780 You know what I'm saying? 00:18:17.220 --> 00:18:21.280 As an organization, when you're like, we want to reach everybody, but we can't. 00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:27.500 We're going to instill and invest in people that are leaders so that they can reach the 00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:28.560 people that God's called them. 00:18:28.660 --> 00:18:30.840 And in that way, I'm going to be for everyone. 00:18:31.260 --> 00:18:36.000 But the reality is, as an organization, I can only choose one type of person to go after. 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:37.680 Am I going to go after a leader? 00:18:37.880 --> 00:18:39.480 Am I going to go after young professionals? 00:18:39.700 --> 00:18:44.560 Am I going to go after skateboarders that hang out on a Saturday afternoon and a half 00:18:44.560 --> 00:18:44.780 pipe? 00:18:44.920 --> 00:18:45.640 I don't know. 00:18:45.700 --> 00:18:46.420 It's up to you. 00:18:46.780 --> 00:18:51.140 But as an organization leader, you have to know who God's called you to. 00:18:52.800 --> 00:18:53.160 Yeah. 00:18:53.360 --> 00:18:58.700 Now, if people are listening at home, scrub back the past two minutes, listen again, and 00:18:58.700 --> 00:19:03.920 start to recognize the decentralized mindset where it's not, well, I may be giving away 00:19:03.920 --> 00:19:04.240 too much. 00:19:04.320 --> 00:19:05.040 Let's keep going. 00:19:06.040 --> 00:19:06.500 Number three here. 00:19:06.500 --> 00:19:10.000 Number three here, design your community structure. 00:19:12.400 --> 00:19:13.660 What's a community structure? 00:19:13.860 --> 00:19:15.260 Talk to me a little bit here about this. 00:19:15.340 --> 00:19:15.980 Yeah, every community has levels. 00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:17.720 Every community has levels. 00:19:17.720 --> 00:19:21.440 And mostly, they're five levels. 00:19:21.800 --> 00:19:30.060 Some of you in the attractional legacy of church with Rick Warren, you might have heard the community, 00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:34.160 the crowd, the congregation, the committed, and the core. 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:36.120 That's five levels right there. 00:19:36.120 --> 00:19:40.000 The truth is, every community has at least five levels. 00:19:40.180 --> 00:19:42.860 There may be more depending on, and there may be informal. 00:19:43.540 --> 00:19:47.820 But communities have levels of insiders versus outsiders. 00:19:48.680 --> 00:19:55.460 And as a community leader, you don't need to leave those up to chance, because they will 00:19:55.460 --> 00:19:56.720 be built for you. 00:19:57.340 --> 00:20:00.380 Whether you do it or you don't do it, they will be built. 00:20:00.900 --> 00:20:06.880 And you should have, as a leader, some intention in making sure you design what those five levels 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:07.620 look like. 00:20:08.020 --> 00:20:12.500 And the reality is, as a church, Jesus has kind of given us a template. 00:20:12.840 --> 00:20:14.240 You know, we have the city we're reaching. 00:20:14.620 --> 00:20:16.060 We have people of peace. 00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:19.240 We have the people inside the church that are our family. 00:20:19.240 --> 00:20:24.540 Then you have the diaconate, the deacons, the ones that are serving the people in the 00:20:24.540 --> 00:20:24.940 body. 00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:29.200 And then we have the elders, those who are protecting the community. 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:34.020 The reality is, as well, we have people we send out. 00:20:34.520 --> 00:20:40.420 And oftentimes, in a centralized context, like a building where people go to, when we send 00:20:40.420 --> 00:20:42.260 out, we lose connection with them. 00:20:42.640 --> 00:20:44.220 But we don't have to do that anymore. 00:20:44.220 --> 00:20:48.780 We actually can put those in another ring in our community as well. 00:20:48.780 --> 00:20:51.500 Those who are on mission who can be us. 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:54.220 But that's a teaser for a little bit later. 00:20:54.860 --> 00:20:56.820 The next one would be bridges. 00:20:57.300 --> 00:21:04.780 Like, in these rings, the people that are inside those levels need to know how to go deeper 00:21:04.780 --> 00:21:07.720 into community without you being the bottleneck. 00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:12.880 And so you've got to create these bridges over these, what I call gates. 00:21:13.300 --> 00:21:20.800 The gates are boundaries in a community that keep outsiders from another level of community. 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:25.080 And so each level has a gate around it. 00:21:25.300 --> 00:21:29.260 And they need to know that they're part of the community, but they're not as far in as 00:21:29.260 --> 00:21:29.960 they could have been. 00:21:29.960 --> 00:21:32.540 And that's what we need to create. 00:21:32.540 --> 00:21:38.280 We need to design a community structure that shows that we have an intentional pathway 00:21:38.280 --> 00:21:43.740 into each deeper level of community that has qualifications. 00:21:44.420 --> 00:21:46.140 And this is what I call it, consider bridges. 00:21:46.580 --> 00:21:53.280 Qualifications to get in, standards to stay in, rites of passage that says, I crossed the 00:21:53.280 --> 00:21:55.020 bridge and I'm letting everybody know. 00:21:55.660 --> 00:21:58.380 Tokens so that we remember that day. 00:21:58.380 --> 00:22:02.200 And rituals that say, once you're in, this is how we do things here. 00:22:02.900 --> 00:22:07.220 And so those are what I would consider bridges into deeper levels of community. 00:22:08.680 --> 00:22:09.120 Okay. 00:22:09.340 --> 00:22:10.980 Now, let's back up. 00:22:11.180 --> 00:22:15.020 Like, when I typically talk community, you know, when we talk about it here on the show, 00:22:15.100 --> 00:22:21.740 it's more community like in social media, community like within metaverse and some of 00:22:21.740 --> 00:22:22.420 the worlds there. 00:22:23.060 --> 00:22:25.320 You're defining community a little bit different here. 00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:26.920 So maybe unpack that here a little bit. 00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:35.260 Yeah, metaverse, Facebook, these groups are groupings of people, but groups of people don't 00:22:35.260 --> 00:22:36.300 make a community. 00:22:36.580 --> 00:22:38.000 They might just make an audience. 00:22:39.020 --> 00:22:46.460 And so we want to create some levels that they can travel to belong more. 00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:53.880 When you begin to systemize a space that says, hey, you can belong and be a part of us and 00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:58.620 have an identity that says, you are us and we do things this way. 00:22:59.260 --> 00:23:00.840 Now you move from audience. 00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:03.420 You move from a crowd to community. 00:23:03.760 --> 00:23:05.520 And that's what we're trying to do there. 00:23:05.640 --> 00:23:16.660 So community is a tightly knit group of relationships that say, we are in this together, whatever this 00:23:16.660 --> 00:23:17.280 may be. 00:23:18.140 --> 00:23:18.540 Yeah. 00:23:19.180 --> 00:23:20.140 What's the benefit? 00:23:20.340 --> 00:23:20.520 Okay. 00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:26.420 So like a church would cluster people within a Facebook group and they would call that community. 00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:29.720 You know, and it's using your words. 00:23:29.860 --> 00:23:36.700 It's more of an audience as opposed to what's the benefit of getting a structured community 00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:38.060 like what you're describing? 00:23:38.640 --> 00:23:43.160 How does that pay off for a church, a planter or an established church long term? 00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:43.680 Yeah. 00:23:43.860 --> 00:23:45.800 People need to be needed and known. 00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:54.400 And in a world where we can pull up a Facebook group and build somebody that watches our stuff 00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:56.600 and call that a community, that's not a community. 00:23:57.020 --> 00:24:01.500 A community invests in the lives of others that are a part of it. 00:24:01.860 --> 00:24:03.640 They're going someplace together. 00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.400 This is why a mission is so critical in a community. 00:24:06.400 --> 00:24:10.200 You can't have community for the community's sake and it actually stay together. 00:24:10.520 --> 00:24:13.180 You have to have the tension of mission alongside of it. 00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:14.480 So there's got to be a purpose. 00:24:15.580 --> 00:24:22.380 But the reason why this is so important is because people don't grow without relationship 00:24:22.380 --> 00:24:23.140 to others. 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:27.040 It is not knowledge by itself that transforms people. 00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:32.280 It's knowledge, relationships, and experience together that transforms people. 00:24:33.080 --> 00:24:34.440 And Jesus knew this. 00:24:34.520 --> 00:24:36.580 This is why Jesus structured community. 00:24:37.360 --> 00:24:40.160 72, 12, 3, 1. 00:24:40.400 --> 00:24:41.960 He knew what he was doing. 00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:44.920 He had deeper and deeper and deeper levels of community. 00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:47.840 And we've got to, Jesus modeled this for us. 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:54.260 We've got to do the same so that we can help people belong more and grow in what God's called 00:24:54.260 --> 00:24:55.140 them to do. 00:24:55.140 --> 00:24:58.120 And you cannot do that outside of community. 00:24:58.440 --> 00:25:04.000 And we have fooled ourselves so often in thinking building a crowd is good enough. 00:25:04.160 --> 00:25:04.900 It is not. 00:25:07.040 --> 00:25:07.820 That's solid. 00:25:07.940 --> 00:25:15.760 You can look at John 6 as a perfect example of how Jesus chased away the crowd to get down, 00:25:15.960 --> 00:25:18.360 filtering out the crowd to get in the place of a community. 00:25:18.840 --> 00:25:20.940 That was actually the start of the 72. 00:25:21.280 --> 00:25:22.420 So well said. 00:25:22.600 --> 00:25:23.840 Well said with that one here. 00:25:23.920 --> 00:25:27.920 Moving on, number four, build a healthy team. 00:25:28.040 --> 00:25:28.820 Build a healthy team. 00:25:28.920 --> 00:25:35.080 Ironically, Angela Craig just wrote a blog today for the Church Digital on part two of how to 00:25:35.080 --> 00:25:35.960 build a healthy team. 00:25:36.100 --> 00:25:37.020 We'll link to it in the show notes. 00:25:37.160 --> 00:25:43.220 But for your context here, Chesley, what does building a healthy team look like for a digital 00:25:43.220 --> 00:25:46.420 church, a digital planter, somebody in an established church? 00:25:46.680 --> 00:25:52.440 Yeah, I think first off, it's understanding as you recruit people, you're not actually recruiting 00:25:52.440 --> 00:25:54.300 them to help you do your thing. 00:25:54.800 --> 00:26:00.500 You're recruiting them to help you figure out what they're called to do and launch them into 00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:00.800 that. 00:26:01.620 --> 00:26:04.320 In the process, there's things that got to get done. 00:26:04.580 --> 00:26:05.220 I know that. 00:26:05.380 --> 00:26:09.560 I understand that as a church planter, there are things that got to get done and you need 00:26:09.560 --> 00:26:10.420 a team to do that. 00:26:10.860 --> 00:26:20.640 But the reality is so often we, I'm trying to say, choose my words carefully here. 00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:27.020 We burn people out because we're so towards the mission and forget about community and 00:26:27.020 --> 00:26:28.440 those things need to be intentioned. 00:26:28.440 --> 00:26:30.980 And even on a team, they need to be intentioned. 00:26:30.980 --> 00:26:38.320 And so we need to be very aware of the fact that people have emotions even on a staff. 00:26:38.840 --> 00:26:40.520 And so there's ways to do that. 00:26:40.660 --> 00:26:46.240 Chris Caputo with said Discipleship Network talks about building relationships with the 00:26:46.240 --> 00:26:51.080 three to five space so that we can honor each other, learn, instill joy. 00:26:51.240 --> 00:26:52.460 So those things are important. 00:26:53.140 --> 00:26:54.520 Recruiting is important. 00:26:54.520 --> 00:27:01.420 And there are ways to do strategy well inside of a team that will cause people to feel like 00:27:01.420 --> 00:27:04.080 they were heard and validated and understood. 00:27:04.520 --> 00:27:06.260 Not necessarily that they'll agree. 00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.920 And so many leaders, when they build teams, they build from a top-down. 00:27:10.280 --> 00:27:15.800 Jesus said, the leaders of this world rule with authority and a top-down structure. 00:27:16.620 --> 00:27:19.260 They use power to oppress people. 00:27:19.260 --> 00:27:23.320 And he told his disciples, with you, it will not be so. 00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:26.220 He's not talking about a hierarchical model. 00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:32.780 He's talking about a mode of leadership, which is saying, I'm not going to lord over you. 00:27:32.900 --> 00:27:36.460 I'm not going to oppress you with my power and abuse my power. 00:27:36.860 --> 00:27:43.620 Well, the only way to do that is to understand how to use influence and relationships to infuse 00:27:43.620 --> 00:27:45.500 strategy into an organization. 00:27:45.620 --> 00:27:51.880 And to build a healthy team, you have to have a system that will allow you to do it. 00:27:52.320 --> 00:27:58.060 There is a system that will allow you to get where you need to go as a leadership team 00:27:58.060 --> 00:28:02.760 in a way that is emotionally healthy, where you're shepherding people along the way. 00:28:03.320 --> 00:28:04.620 And that is very important. 00:28:05.080 --> 00:28:06.660 That system is long. 00:28:06.760 --> 00:28:09.140 You should hang out with me to find out more about that. 00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:12.460 So I'm not going to go into all the details here. 00:28:12.460 --> 00:28:16.280 But there is a clearly laid system that helps you do that. 00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:21.520 And finally, the visionary integrator relationship. 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.780 I just had a conversation with Bill Hoyt and Bruce Bugbee. 00:28:25.060 --> 00:28:27.960 Both were instrumental in the converged denomination. 00:28:28.500 --> 00:28:32.820 And Bruce is who I call the godfather of spiritual gifts in the church. 00:28:33.160 --> 00:28:37.120 He worked at Willow Creek and some of the other larger churches in the nation. 00:28:37.120 --> 00:28:46.060 And we were talking about the fact that everybody always misses the thing that actually caused 00:28:46.060 --> 00:28:54.800 organizations like Mars Hill, organizations like Saddleback, organizations like Willow Creek. 00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:57.880 They forget why these things grow. 00:28:57.880 --> 00:29:01.800 They think it's the power of the visionary, and it is not. 00:29:02.280 --> 00:29:05.760 It is the combination of a visionary with an integrator. 00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:11.000 Walt Disney would have been in jail had it not been for his brother, Roy Disney. 00:29:12.760 --> 00:29:15.100 Bill Hybels had Don Cousins. 00:29:15.740 --> 00:29:19.980 And so often, we look at the visionary and say, hey, this is the guy that has it all. 00:29:20.580 --> 00:29:28.280 When you're building a healthy team, those of you that are visionaries need to have an integrator. 00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:33.580 You have to have somebody that is the yin to your yang that can manage as you lead. 00:29:33.980 --> 00:29:35.760 That's the special sauce here. 00:29:36.220 --> 00:29:38.860 And so often, organizations don't do that. 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.920 Church planters think it's the heroic. 00:29:41.300 --> 00:29:46.120 And our culture builds up the visionary leader as the end-all, be-all. 00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:47.920 And the reality is that's not the truth. 00:29:48.020 --> 00:29:52.120 So if you're going to build a healthy team, you need to find somebody that is opposite of you. 00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:54.400 As you are a leader, you need to find a manager. 00:29:54.600 --> 00:29:57.420 And there are rules to how you relate to each other. 00:29:58.040 --> 00:30:02.740 And so those are a couple of the things when you're building a healthy team. 00:30:02.740 --> 00:30:03.540 How do you build it? 00:30:04.160 --> 00:30:06.900 You've got to have emotionally healthy strategic practices. 00:30:07.280 --> 00:30:09.540 And you have to find an integrator to your visionary. 00:30:10.060 --> 00:30:12.260 And if you are an integrator, you have to find a visionary. 00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:14.140 Yes. 00:30:15.060 --> 00:30:15.800 That's beautiful. 00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:17.060 Let's unpack some of that. 00:30:17.260 --> 00:30:25.720 On the emotionally healthy practices, you talked about helping people find their thing as opposed to your thing. 00:30:26.320 --> 00:30:29.440 In digital context, just paint a picture. 00:30:29.580 --> 00:30:30.320 What does that look like? 00:30:30.320 --> 00:30:30.720 Yeah. 00:30:30.940 --> 00:30:37.500 So I'm always asking, if you could do anything that brings you joy, what would that be? 00:30:39.640 --> 00:30:42.320 I got friends that play on Call of Duty. 00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:47.720 They like to hang out with their friends, play Call of Duty, and pray for each other. 00:30:48.720 --> 00:30:52.640 You know, on a team, though, I'm looking at, hey, we've got all these tasks. 00:30:52.900 --> 00:30:54.980 Like, what are you best at? 00:30:55.320 --> 00:31:08.440 If I've got somebody over here that loves just hanging out with people and walking with them through a proven process to grow them, I'm going to let them come over there and start playing around with that. 00:31:08.440 --> 00:31:15.360 I'm going to say, hey, why don't you jump in there and see if you like that. 00:31:15.600 --> 00:31:20.820 If you are great at, I love just talking to people and welcoming people into the organization. 00:31:21.760 --> 00:31:23.120 Like, okay, you're going to be there. 00:31:23.380 --> 00:31:33.500 And then I have an empowerment framework through that that says, hey, as we grow and trust with each other, I want to give you more authority. 00:31:33.940 --> 00:31:39.120 So, I'm giving you more responsibility as I give you more authority. 00:31:39.240 --> 00:31:42.380 I'm not giving you all responsibility and no trust to do anything. 00:31:43.060 --> 00:31:52.580 So, in a digital setting, via Facebook group, via Metaverse community, you have roles. 00:31:52.840 --> 00:31:55.860 And I call, well, I don't call this traction. 00:31:56.280 --> 00:31:59.400 Gino Wickman, who wrote Traction, calls it the accountability chart. 00:31:59.580 --> 00:32:09.540 And when you're doing these things, it's finding the roles in your community that need to get done and then plugging people into a role, not necessarily a title. 00:32:09.960 --> 00:32:12.460 Say, hey, these are roles with these responsibilities. 00:32:13.560 --> 00:32:22.240 As I get to know you, as we do assessments, as we build trust, look at these roles and see if you have a passion for these things. 00:32:24.720 --> 00:32:25.200 Awesome. 00:32:25.780 --> 00:32:31.000 And so, building that emotionally healthy, you're starting to see where that's starting to come together. 00:32:31.100 --> 00:32:35.460 And by the way, this is all baked and things that we're working through with DCN. 00:32:35.580 --> 00:32:37.920 And so, once again, fam.dcm.network. 00:32:38.240 --> 00:32:43.240 If you've got questions, we can start to unpack stuff over there within that space. 00:32:43.400 --> 00:32:47.000 But here with the visionary integrator relationship, I hear what you're talking about. 00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:49.700 Like, paint for me a picture here. 00:32:50.440 --> 00:32:53.060 Integrator versus maybe the typical executive pastor. 00:32:53.060 --> 00:32:55.140 Like, is this, is it similar? 00:32:55.740 --> 00:32:57.220 Are there differences? 00:32:57.700 --> 00:32:58.020 Like, what? 00:32:58.280 --> 00:33:02.280 Because we're probably more used to a senior pastor and an executive pastor. 00:33:02.580 --> 00:33:04.460 You're using some different language. 00:33:04.660 --> 00:33:07.300 So, like, just maybe compare those and contrast. 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:07.760 Yeah. 00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:14.080 I don't enjoy the titles nearly as much as I understand the roles. 00:33:14.160 --> 00:33:16.940 So, a visionary role and the integrator role. 00:33:17.940 --> 00:33:25.620 And what we know as the lead pastor, executive pastor, like that combo, that's usually a visionary integrator. 00:33:26.560 --> 00:33:36.800 And so, what you'll find in the integrator role is it's, their job descriptions are usually very different across the board. 00:33:37.100 --> 00:33:41.380 And the reason why is it always is complementing the leader. 00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:45.860 The best way I can explain this is Captain Kirk and Spock. 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:49.660 They were the yin to each other's yang. 00:33:50.320 --> 00:33:55.580 Like, Spock is the quintessential integrator and Captain Kirk is the quintessential visionary. 00:33:56.140 --> 00:33:59.400 They're completely, utterly different than each other. 00:33:59.500 --> 00:34:07.720 But together, they provide a stability in leadership and a power in leadership that allows people to move forward. 00:34:07.980 --> 00:34:09.680 They're very different roles. 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:12.940 And they're very, they're like almost polar opposites. 00:34:13.720 --> 00:34:15.400 Kirk is an emotional leader. 00:34:15.520 --> 00:34:16.540 He goes with his gut. 00:34:16.640 --> 00:34:17.300 He's intuitive. 00:34:17.940 --> 00:34:19.800 Spock doesn't have emotions. 00:34:20.100 --> 00:34:22.760 He has to go looking for them most of the time. 00:34:23.420 --> 00:34:25.500 And he's a great manager. 00:34:25.900 --> 00:34:30.020 He can lead for short stints, but he's not actually a great leader. 00:34:30.340 --> 00:34:31.380 He's a great manager. 00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:36.520 Whereas Kirk can manage for short stints, but he's not a good manager. 00:34:36.660 --> 00:34:37.520 He's a great leader. 00:34:38.200 --> 00:34:41.280 And so, if you want things done and executed, you want Spock. 00:34:41.400 --> 00:34:44.760 If you want things moving forward, you want Kirk. 00:34:45.120 --> 00:34:46.940 And so, those are what we're looking for. 00:34:46.940 --> 00:34:51.060 In the ministry role, usually that's lead pastor and executive pastor. 00:34:51.260 --> 00:34:53.960 But I don't want to get caught up in those titles. 00:34:54.100 --> 00:34:57.020 I want to say there's a visionary role and there's an integrator role. 00:34:57.500 --> 00:35:02.080 And if you are a visionary, you need an integrator if you're actually going to see your vision succeed. 00:35:04.260 --> 00:35:09.500 Okay, we've managed to go 210 episodes before a Star Trek reference was dropped on this podcast. 00:35:09.540 --> 00:35:10.660 Look at me, man. 00:35:10.860 --> 00:35:11.300 That's awesome. 00:35:11.300 --> 00:35:14.420 Thanks for ruining the, I'm so not a Star Trek fan. 00:35:15.420 --> 00:35:17.440 Nerds out there are celebrating. 00:35:18.340 --> 00:35:23.100 Yeah, like this, that's, we're going to announce the retirement of the Church Digital Podcast. 00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:24.500 I'm going to have to launch something new. 00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:24.940 There we go. 00:35:25.000 --> 00:35:26.120 Just so we can regain it. 00:35:26.280 --> 00:35:26.600 I'm kidding. 00:35:26.700 --> 00:35:27.680 No, that's very good. 00:35:27.760 --> 00:35:30.660 That's a good, it's a good parallel with the integrators. 00:35:30.780 --> 00:35:34.980 By the way, Reid is out there, your friend from Subsplash, our friend from Subsplash. 00:35:35.440 --> 00:35:36.540 Amen to integrators. 00:35:36.640 --> 00:35:38.360 So, evidently, he's a fan. 00:35:38.520 --> 00:35:40.780 And Reid would definitely be an integrator. 00:35:40.980 --> 00:35:43.520 That man is legit. 00:35:43.800 --> 00:35:44.540 Way to go, bro. 00:35:45.800 --> 00:35:46.160 Awesome. 00:35:46.300 --> 00:35:46.760 Very cool. 00:35:47.120 --> 00:35:47.300 All right. 00:35:47.300 --> 00:35:51.040 Hey, number five, develop your engagement engine. 00:35:51.220 --> 00:35:53.920 Develop your engagement engine, excuse me. 00:35:54.480 --> 00:35:55.680 What are we looking at here? 00:35:55.680 --> 00:35:57.060 So, what is an engine? 00:35:57.640 --> 00:36:05.240 It is a compilation of systems that work together to convert energy into motion. 00:36:06.080 --> 00:36:07.160 That's what it is. 00:36:07.420 --> 00:36:09.340 There are systems in every church. 00:36:09.620 --> 00:36:11.600 There's a giving stewardship system. 00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:14.340 There's an event system. 00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:16.960 There is a volunteering system. 00:36:17.300 --> 00:36:19.220 There are digital systems. 00:36:19.860 --> 00:36:22.500 There are HR systems. 00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:33.940 There are multiple systems that have to go into working together to convert energy, the work that you're putting in, into motion. 00:36:33.940 --> 00:36:37.660 So, that things are actually moving in the right direction. 00:36:38.300 --> 00:36:47.100 And so, online, what that means is building marketing funnels for assimilation and also building a discipleship, a development process. 00:36:47.840 --> 00:36:49.840 You have to have a clear process. 00:36:50.500 --> 00:36:53.980 I love talking about Dave Ramsey and how he built his company. 00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:00.240 Dave Ramsey built the quintessential digital company before internet was a thing. 00:37:00.240 --> 00:37:03.820 And he did it with books and mail and CDs. 00:37:04.240 --> 00:37:07.000 And now he's moving into digital products. 00:37:07.140 --> 00:37:14.100 But the reality is he built a community around a development process. 00:37:14.580 --> 00:37:17.020 Everybody looks at his products and go, well, that's it. 00:37:17.100 --> 00:37:18.440 That's not what he was doing. 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:22.480 He gets on a podcast or a radio show every day. 00:37:23.120 --> 00:37:29.700 And he preaches the seven baby steps, that framework, that development process. 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:35.980 And he has marketing funnels to get people in on social media, anywhere you go. 00:37:36.300 --> 00:37:47.040 Like, you can be in a relationship at church and as a champion or as a practitioner or as an endorsed local provider to get people into the system. 00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:48.680 You can do this in the metaverse. 00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:49.880 You can do this on Facebook. 00:37:49.880 --> 00:37:52.720 You can do this in Call of Duty. 00:37:52.720 --> 00:37:55.060 You could do this in World of Warcraft or Fortnite. 00:37:55.240 --> 00:38:07.500 You can use your people, if they know the system and they understand the system, as a means to invite people into a process which will actually end up in community at the end. 00:38:07.640 --> 00:38:09.120 That will create a movement. 00:38:09.520 --> 00:38:17.440 We're always so worried about movement that we don't understand the process of building the right funnels. 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:21.740 And so that is why I like talking about Dave. 00:38:21.740 --> 00:38:35.900 But you got to know what are the seven core practices of following Jesus or what are the five ways to transform your life? 00:38:35.960 --> 00:38:37.040 I don't care what it says. 00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:38.640 I don't care what it says, but you've got to have a clear one. 00:38:39.180 --> 00:38:48.440 And if you bring people down the clear one, you attach them to a relationship, you help them experience knowledge, experience relationship, and you create transformation. 00:38:48.880 --> 00:39:06.660 On top of that, as you do that, as you're building them through that process, helping them move from an insignificant life to a significant life, whatever transformation language you like to use, attach it to an asynchronous community. 00:39:07.160 --> 00:39:14.200 This is important online because it's not just the digital gathering that creates a community. 00:39:14.520 --> 00:39:21.120 It is the ability to talk and connect with each other no matter where you're at, at any time, day or night. 00:39:21.600 --> 00:39:24.660 And the only way to do that is through an asynchronous community. 00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:26.300 It could be a Facebook group. 00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:27.200 It could be Discord. 00:39:27.580 --> 00:39:28.940 It could be any of these. 00:39:29.020 --> 00:39:30.620 It could be a private social network. 00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:35.580 But you need to have an asynchronous community for this to work on a digital platform. 00:39:35.580 --> 00:39:44.940 And then lastly, and the most overlooked and probably the most gold you'll ever need when you're doing this, is build your email list. 00:39:45.460 --> 00:39:51.100 Your email inbox is your equivalent to your house online. 00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:54.540 Nobody likes people peeking into their inbox. 00:39:54.720 --> 00:39:54.960 Why? 00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:55.840 Because it's private. 00:39:55.960 --> 00:39:56.940 It is my home. 00:39:57.700 --> 00:40:04.180 And so when you get somebody's email, you are invited into their house as a guest. 00:40:04.620 --> 00:40:28.700 And so it creates the beginning of a real digital relationship with them so that you can begin to provide value that starts transactionally, moves them into value where we build as a coach, and then builds value into the community where they want to grow in relationship with you, relationship with Jesus, and relationship with others to perpetuate a movement. 00:40:29.000 --> 00:40:30.840 And you have to build an email list. 00:40:30.840 --> 00:40:31.260 And you have to build an email list. 00:40:31.260 --> 00:40:33.520 I cannot stress that enough. 00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:35.780 That is the number one most important. 00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:44.460 If you don't get anything out of this whole show, it is get emails and begin to communicate with your people via email. 00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:48.320 More than any social media platform, more than the metaverse, anything. 00:40:48.780 --> 00:40:49.840 Emails are key. 00:40:51.360 --> 00:40:52.400 That's interesting. 00:40:52.500 --> 00:40:53.440 There's a couple questions there. 00:40:53.520 --> 00:40:55.700 But let's lean into the email first. 00:40:56.200 --> 00:41:02.500 So, you know, the typical church is sending something on MailChimp or Constant Contact or something. 00:41:02.840 --> 00:41:06.400 They're getting an open rate of 27%, 34%. 00:41:06.400 --> 00:41:09.240 The majority aren't looking at it. 00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.780 You know, it's funny. 00:41:10.840 --> 00:41:12.600 I actually had a church I worked at. 00:41:12.680 --> 00:41:14.580 It's been a minute since I was at this particular church. 00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:22.840 But I had a guy walk in my office and say, Jeff, I received 10 emails from this church over the span of a week. 00:41:22.840 --> 00:41:29.260 And the one email I actually cared about, I didn't see because of all the other mess that was happening in my inbox. 00:41:29.460 --> 00:41:34.060 And so many churches are actually devaluing the email. 00:41:34.560 --> 00:41:36.920 You're actually taking the reverse approach. 00:41:37.040 --> 00:41:38.000 You're leaning into it. 00:41:38.040 --> 00:41:38.200 Why? 00:41:38.940 --> 00:41:42.840 I'm leaning into it because churches don't know how to use email. 00:41:44.100 --> 00:41:52.440 Every business leader on the planet that does digital business, online business, knows that email is the most important thing. 00:41:52.540 --> 00:42:03.100 What churches do wrong, which they tend to do wrong in every environment, is they think online communities are basically online bulletin boards. 00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:09.700 They think email is another way to post a flyer in your inbox. 00:42:10.500 --> 00:42:19.960 It is, you know, when you send out those mass mailings that have like the postcard where you spend a ton of money. 00:42:20.180 --> 00:42:22.980 And then, you know what happens when I get one? 00:42:23.060 --> 00:42:24.100 I throw them away. 00:42:24.420 --> 00:42:25.940 That's basically what we're doing. 00:42:25.940 --> 00:42:32.920 All we care about is advertising our next event or giving information that nobody cares about. 00:42:33.320 --> 00:42:39.540 The reality is when you use an email, what you need to do is you need to provide value for the daily lives. 00:42:39.800 --> 00:42:48.400 You need to build content that will help them become more like Jesus, love Jesus, solve a problem. 00:42:49.000 --> 00:42:54.080 So blogging, podcasting, like those are the things that you need to use your email for. 00:42:54.500 --> 00:43:02.220 It is nurturing that relationship through, I'm going to give you content that, hey, think about this today as a devotion. 00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:03.780 And don't do it every day. 00:43:03.880 --> 00:43:05.440 Do it maybe twice a week. 00:43:06.180 --> 00:43:09.440 You can even do a five bullet Friday like Tim Ferriss does. 00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:13.640 He curates things that are happening that he's thinking about. 00:43:13.840 --> 00:43:16.340 You could even have event lists on there. 00:43:16.460 --> 00:43:19.200 But don't like kill them, overkill them with information. 00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:20.660 Give them value. 00:43:21.040 --> 00:43:29.780 Use that space to actually build a relationship with them by saying, hey, I was thinking about this scripture today. 00:43:29.860 --> 00:43:31.440 And let me tell you what it did for me. 00:43:31.520 --> 00:43:33.020 Hopefully, it'll do something for you. 00:43:33.220 --> 00:43:34.220 Use email that way. 00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:41.920 And I bet you, your open rates will go above 20% because people actually start caring about opening them to get value. 00:43:42.160 --> 00:43:43.660 Right now, you're not providing value. 00:43:43.760 --> 00:43:45.200 You're just asking for stuff. 00:43:46.620 --> 00:43:54.320 You know what it feels like to me is the more that we talk about, especially like this engagement stuff and the email and the asynchronous. 00:43:54.920 --> 00:44:00.000 This is not just for a digital church or a digital ministry of a physical church. 00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:05.860 The physical church engages from this as well and benefits from taking advantage of these tools as well, right? 00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:06.920 Yes, absolutely. 00:44:07.160 --> 00:44:11.740 I'm helping a megachurch right now rethink digital strategy. 00:44:12.060 --> 00:44:18.100 And the reality for them is they have tens of thousands of emails that they've never used. 00:44:18.780 --> 00:44:21.820 And so what they end up doing is they go, well, I don't need those emails anymore. 00:44:22.540 --> 00:44:24.240 Well, actually, that's not true. 00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:29.580 You could actually grow your church by engaging with them to go, hey, we're praying for you. 00:44:29.580 --> 00:44:30.660 We've got somebody online. 00:44:30.780 --> 00:44:36.000 If you want to call here, we will set up a Zoom even to pray for you. 00:44:36.360 --> 00:44:38.100 You've got to have call to actions too. 00:44:38.440 --> 00:44:47.280 But what I'm thinking is if you're going to do something like this, it needs to be 80% value add, 20% ask. 00:44:48.000 --> 00:44:51.820 We end up doing 95% ask and 5% value add. 00:44:52.480 --> 00:45:00.720 And so we've got to shift our paradigm in the email space so that we can actually make it work for us rather than against us. 00:45:01.220 --> 00:45:08.500 But it is the most overlooked, most wrongly utilized part of the digital strategy. 00:45:09.000 --> 00:45:12.860 And we need to begin to see emails as people's digital houses. 00:45:14.460 --> 00:45:15.260 That's beautiful. 00:45:15.660 --> 00:45:17.460 Actually, I wrote that down just now. 00:45:17.540 --> 00:45:19.440 80% value add, 20% ask. 00:45:19.500 --> 00:45:21.440 I think that's a great takeaway. 00:45:21.940 --> 00:45:27.560 Hey, listen, if you're watching on social, you've got questions, feel free to throw them in whatever the thing is. 00:45:27.660 --> 00:45:31.980 It'll pop up, whatever the chat on Facebook or on YouTube. 00:45:32.120 --> 00:45:35.200 We'd love to engage or ask some of those questions here in a little bit. 00:45:35.280 --> 00:45:45.260 But just to summarize here, so the six steps towards launching a digital church, a digital ministry, something new with digital. 00:45:45.640 --> 00:45:47.700 Number one, rely on the Spirit's leading. 00:45:47.880 --> 00:45:49.900 Number two, clarify your missional identity. 00:45:50.420 --> 00:45:52.480 Number three, design your community structure. 00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:54.920 Number four, build a healthy team. 00:45:54.920 --> 00:45:58.760 Number five, develop your engagement engine. 00:45:59.460 --> 00:46:02.680 And then number six, we've got launch your community. 00:46:03.100 --> 00:46:05.580 So, Chesley, what's your perspective here with this one? 00:46:05.700 --> 00:46:11.680 Yeah, I think if you look at every movie known to man, they have a launch strategy. 00:46:12.440 --> 00:46:16.600 And they're putting out trailers, they're putting out teasers. 00:46:16.900 --> 00:46:20.580 And what ends up happening is it becomes an event to go to. 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:27.420 It's something to be a part of and experience like Batman a couple weeks ago. 00:46:27.660 --> 00:46:32.900 Like I got to even sit in a Batman showing before they launched it everywhere else in the nation. 00:46:33.460 --> 00:46:34.880 And it was amazing. 00:46:35.080 --> 00:46:36.120 I had a lot of fun. 00:46:36.380 --> 00:46:38.600 And it was wonderful. 00:46:38.600 --> 00:46:47.080 But they had a sequence that was built specifically for mass appeal and attention. 00:46:47.420 --> 00:46:52.480 They had stories around it as they're building a community. 00:46:53.200 --> 00:46:58.760 And they had triggers in that as they're sending me emails as well. 00:46:58.860 --> 00:47:07.420 And so, as we think through what it looks like to launch a community, it's not just start day one and go, hey, we're here. 00:47:07.940 --> 00:47:08.960 And then crickets. 00:47:09.880 --> 00:47:16.680 No, there is an intentional way of doing this that digital businesses have been doing for 20 years. 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:26.980 There's a way to gain attention and have people build relationship enough with you that they're actually going to want to be a part of this because it feels like something important. 00:47:27.480 --> 00:47:32.220 It feels like something I want to be a part of because it might actually transform my life. 00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:46.720 If you understand how to sequence emails to do that, to get you going somewhere, if you understand how to utilize stories that help people validate their own emotional buy-in to this, that'll help. 00:47:46.720 --> 00:47:55.060 And triggers that will help you allow them to move into their story through this. 00:47:55.680 --> 00:48:04.820 And that's why I say you always got to be around discipleship as well because these triggers, these things are amoral, but they can be good or bad. 00:48:05.320 --> 00:48:10.780 It's not like they're powerful and they could either be used for evil or for good. 00:48:11.320 --> 00:48:15.120 They are potent, just like a gun is. 00:48:15.200 --> 00:48:17.000 It's useful in the right hands. 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:20.540 It's dangerous no matter whose hands it's in. 00:48:21.060 --> 00:48:33.200 And so as we are doing this, it's got to be for discipleship and building a community, not for building your own brand and an audience so you can exploit yourself for notoriety. 00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:38.740 And so build your list, launch your community through sequences, stories, and triggers. 00:48:39.700 --> 00:48:40.740 And triggers. 00:48:40.940 --> 00:48:41.880 Very good there. 00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:46.480 Yeah, it's very easy for digital to fall back on the brand. 00:48:47.100 --> 00:48:59.720 It's very easy for digital to take more of an influencer or, and I don't mean influencer as a pride or as a negative there necessarily, but it's more of a word of pride. 00:48:59.720 --> 00:49:04.660 And of, hey, we want to, we need to keep that, the humility of this. 00:49:04.900 --> 00:49:14.340 And that's why I think it's so great that right off the top, it's rely on the spirits leading and keep this whole thing baked in prayer and the humility of that. 00:49:14.700 --> 00:49:18.640 And so definitely, uh, Chesley, man, this, this is a, this is a great list. 00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:21.900 Um, how, how, how long did it take you to come up with this? 00:49:21.920 --> 00:49:26.940 Like what's, I'm just curious, what, how did this, what's the story of how all this stuff happened? 00:49:27.120 --> 00:49:27.360 Yeah. 00:49:27.980 --> 00:49:30.960 So I've been a replanter and a church planter. 00:49:30.960 --> 00:49:34.820 So I've been going through this for like 10 years and I'm never done training. 00:49:34.820 --> 00:49:48.240 Like, I, I mean, honestly, I'll show you a book right here, sequences, stories, and triggers came from my, uh, like my foray into learning launch is a book that I've used that I've learned a lot of this stuff from. 00:49:48.240 --> 00:49:52.800 Um, I, I've done marketing on, in the digital space for about seven years. 00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:55.560 I've helped other people, other businesses with messaging. 00:49:55.860 --> 00:50:01.100 And then when COVID happened, I realized, oh, this is how you launch large in a digital space. 00:50:01.400 --> 00:50:07.800 And then I realized launching large will only build an audience if you don't actually help people develop. 00:50:08.040 --> 00:50:13.340 And digital is about max communication to one, not mass communication to many. 00:50:13.440 --> 00:50:15.380 Although you can do that, you should do that. 00:50:15.540 --> 00:50:29.140 So branding in and of itself isn't bad, but it's always to develop the individual so that they will go and do what Jesus called them to do so that you'll build a movement of community leaders that are also doing that thing and on and on and on. 00:50:29.140 --> 00:50:34.060 Um, and so, um, I have been in the church space my entire life. 00:50:34.280 --> 00:50:36.140 I've always wanted to know how it works. 00:50:36.260 --> 00:50:42.360 And, uh, and then digital has been a desire of mine because I love new technology. 00:50:42.740 --> 00:50:45.780 I mean, you know, I got my glasses that you can't stand. 00:50:46.140 --> 00:50:49.360 I'm just an early adopter about all that stuff. 00:50:49.620 --> 00:50:57.620 And, uh, so yeah, I'm just a student and knowing church planting and realizing like nobody's actually figured out how to do this well. 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:02.220 And I took the principles I've learned in business over 15 years. 00:51:02.220 --> 00:51:06.380 I've took the principles I've learned in church planting for the last 10. 00:51:06.460 --> 00:51:15.060 And I took my experience that I've had doing digital ministry with, uh, students and I combined it all together and said, this is what I think will work. 00:51:15.200 --> 00:51:20.740 Now, obviously, if you're a digital church planter, there's some other things that you're going to need like, uh, fundraising and stuff. 00:51:20.740 --> 00:51:25.000 But that's part of your engine that you'll build in this as well. 00:51:25.000 --> 00:51:29.580 And so, yeah, that's a quick synopsis of the story. 00:51:30.680 --> 00:51:38.940 Dude, that was, well, even this whole thing, uh, less than an hour flying through six steps to do something, uh, to launch a digital. 00:51:39.160 --> 00:51:40.880 Like, this was all very quick. 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:43.040 And so, man, Chesley, thanks for jumping on here. 00:51:43.120 --> 00:51:47.600 By the way, I'm coming around to the whole Snapchat face, uh, Facebook glasses. 00:51:47.740 --> 00:51:53.660 So I met, we'll offline, but there's some really fascinating stories that I've been running into, uh, with those glasses. 00:51:53.760 --> 00:51:54.880 I may, I may have to get one. 00:51:54.940 --> 00:51:57.240 I'm not a Snapchat guy, so I don't think that's going to happen. 00:51:57.400 --> 00:51:57.740 That's fair. 00:51:58.040 --> 00:51:59.240 They make a Facebook version, right? 00:51:59.320 --> 00:51:59.580 They do. 00:51:59.740 --> 00:52:01.080 I have the Facebook version. 00:52:01.240 --> 00:52:01.380 Yeah. 00:52:01.460 --> 00:52:02.740 I don't, I don't do Snapchat. 00:52:03.900 --> 00:52:06.240 I, I, I may, I may do that. 00:52:06.620 --> 00:52:07.720 We'll have, we'll have to see. 00:52:07.740 --> 00:52:08.500 I can move that stuff in the house. 00:52:08.500 --> 00:52:09.660 My wife will be like, not in the house. 00:52:10.080 --> 00:52:11.400 So that's fair. 00:52:11.940 --> 00:52:12.520 That's fair. 00:52:13.600 --> 00:52:14.000 Dangerous. 00:52:15.380 --> 00:52:15.740 Awesome. 00:52:15.740 --> 00:52:18.060 And, but that's a whole other podcast for another day. 00:52:18.140 --> 00:52:19.700 But hey, we're, we're going to wrap up the plane. 00:52:20.060 --> 00:52:23.980 Uh, by the way, uh, you know, fam, just another connection point. 00:52:24.220 --> 00:52:29.360 We're wrestling with all of this stuff in, in offering trainings and, um, in opportunities 00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:31.280 to dialogue and engage on this. 00:52:31.280 --> 00:52:37.240 And so that's fam, fam.digitalchurch.network. 00:52:37.240 --> 00:52:38.540 And so head over that way. 00:52:38.640 --> 00:52:41.260 Chesley, as we're landing the plane here, any closing thoughts? 00:52:41.680 --> 00:52:41.920 Yeah. 00:52:42.280 --> 00:52:46.640 Um, you can do this once, or you can do this a thousand times. 00:52:46.640 --> 00:52:51.540 If you'll multiply your reach through actually discipling someone else and teaching them how 00:52:51.540 --> 00:52:53.420 to do it with you, that's called apprenticeship. 00:52:53.500 --> 00:52:55.640 Like that's when a movement starts. 00:52:55.640 --> 00:52:56.680 Don't do it by yourself. 00:52:56.760 --> 00:52:57.920 Hope other people do it. 00:52:58.140 --> 00:53:03.260 And so I, I'm excited about, uh, doing that with you guys on fam. 00:53:03.780 --> 00:53:08.920 And maybe just maybe, um, you'll see some of this stuff roll out pretty quickly. 00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:10.340 So. 00:53:10.760 --> 00:53:11.280 Yeah. 00:53:11.560 --> 00:53:12.620 Hint, hint, wink, wink. 00:53:12.800 --> 00:53:15.220 Uh, it's a good time to jump in fam. 00:53:15.360 --> 00:53:18.620 Ben Stapley just texted me while we're having this conversation. 00:53:18.740 --> 00:53:19.500 Why Ben Stapley? 00:53:19.820 --> 00:53:22.060 Ben Stapley is, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 00:53:22.100 --> 00:53:23.100 I'm going to call Ben publicly. 00:53:23.600 --> 00:53:26.700 Ben, you're supposed to be fasting from social media. 00:53:26.700 --> 00:53:30.520 Why are you watching social media right now and texting me a photo of that? 00:53:30.560 --> 00:53:33.320 I'll read the text here in a little bit, but Ben, I'm disappointed in you. 00:53:33.880 --> 00:53:35.880 Hey, listen, this has been, I'm kidding. 00:53:35.980 --> 00:53:36.500 I love Ben. 00:53:36.600 --> 00:53:36.960 Ben's great. 00:53:37.060 --> 00:53:39.300 Ben hug, Ben right now. 00:53:39.360 --> 00:53:40.140 We're hugging on the camera. 00:53:40.220 --> 00:53:40.880 Ben, this is great. 00:53:40.960 --> 00:53:42.320 Hey, listen, uh, it's always fun. 00:53:42.400 --> 00:53:43.360 I love doing this stuff live. 00:53:43.660 --> 00:53:48.560 Uh, but Hey, for Ben Stapley, who evidently will never talk to me again, uh, for Chesley 00:53:48.560 --> 00:53:54.240 Lundy jumping on, this is Jeff with the church, digital, digital church network, and so much 00:53:54.240 --> 00:53:55.440 other fun stuff. 00:53:55.620 --> 00:53:56.340 Jump in fam. 00:53:56.660 --> 00:53:57.860 Be a part of the conversation. 00:53:58.440 --> 00:54:00.660 We'll see you next time here on the podcast. 00:54:00.860 --> 00:54:01.440 Y'all have a good day. 00:54:01.580 --> 00:54:01.940 Peace.