WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.580 The second thing they said, when they asked our friends, our neighbors, who would you most likely talk to about spiritual things? 00:00:06.020 --> 00:00:12.140 They said someone who listens without judgment. And secondly, they said someone who will allow me to draw my own conclusions. 00:00:12.660 --> 00:00:25.640 And this is just another one of those great reminders that our neighbors and our friends, whether it's literally next door, like Ray and Nikki, or it's digitally next door, they're not projects, they're people. 00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:32.220 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:32.700 --> 00:00:36.700 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:37.540 --> 00:00:42.440 Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:43.240 --> 00:00:49.020 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this? 00:00:49.520 --> 00:01:01.640 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically. 00:01:02.380 --> 00:01:09.300 Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple making that will revolutionize your church. 00:01:09.900 --> 00:01:12.620 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:12.740 --> 00:01:22.780 All right. Hey, we got episode 218 here. This is Jeff with the Church Digital Podcast, Digital Church Network, New Thing, Leadership Network, and so, so many other fun things. 00:01:22.840 --> 00:01:27.160 By the way, you see, I've gotten some jokes down at the bottom, all my little graphics. 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:32.680 You know, one time I was like, every company that ever worked for, I wanted to like put a tattoo on my back. 00:01:33.000 --> 00:01:38.040 And, you know, I've got a broad back, and so, like, I just had that idea. 00:01:38.420 --> 00:01:42.720 But people have jokingly said my icons across the bottom here look like NASCAR. 00:01:43.080 --> 00:01:45.080 You like the bumper stickers on the back of a NASCAR, and it's cool. 00:01:45.380 --> 00:01:49.780 These are, you know, forward-facing organizations that are thinking about digital differently. 00:01:50.240 --> 00:01:54.460 And, by the way, we'd love to work and add more to that commercial over. 00:01:54.560 --> 00:01:59.820 Okay, so we are excited here about 218 and what's coming up here with the podcast. 00:01:59.820 --> 00:02:02.560 Now, we're doing something a little different with this podcast. 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:07.480 You know, typically we do, like, an interview one-on-one type format or bring a couple people in. 00:02:07.580 --> 00:02:13.340 But through Digital Church Network, you may not realize this, we've been doing some roundtables on Monday nights. 00:02:13.500 --> 00:02:22.720 Roundtables are an opportunity for us to bring in a guest or a couple different guests and really do a deep dive, an introspective look on something. 00:02:22.720 --> 00:02:31.720 But instead of me coming up with the questions, it becomes far more conversational as we try to get to answers together. 00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:40.020 It's more of a collaborative type of conversation where we're literally listening to other people talk other than just me and the guests. 00:02:40.120 --> 00:02:44.240 And that's actually what we got to do with this podcast coming up. 00:02:44.280 --> 00:02:48.820 We had the opportunity to bring Dave Ferguson into the conversation. 00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:51.700 Dave Ferguson is lead pastor, Community Christian Church. 00:02:51.780 --> 00:02:53.840 He's the CEO of Exponential. 00:02:54.260 --> 00:03:01.300 He's the, I don't know what the word is, but the visionary leader for New Thing Network and Leadership Network. 00:03:01.400 --> 00:03:01.920 He's involved in that. 00:03:02.000 --> 00:03:06.120 Long story short, I think Dave Ferguson's my boss at least two times over. 00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:11.500 And to be honest, I would pretty much do anything he said anyway, because I just, and Dave Ferguson, we trust. 00:03:11.960 --> 00:03:20.080 And so we're bringing Dave Ferguson into this conversation here with the Roundtable through Digital Church Network and playing it back here on the podcast. 00:03:20.220 --> 00:03:24.680 Now, the fun thing is that I got to sit down with Dave and his brother, John. 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:31.720 We did a podcast with John here within the past couple of weeks and really started to talk about their blessed practices. 00:03:31.720 --> 00:03:39.280 This book came out in 2021 and the blessed practices, what it means to bless people. 00:03:39.740 --> 00:03:42.040 And it's this really innovative idea. 00:03:42.260 --> 00:03:47.440 It shouldn't be innovative, but it's innovative because it's not about inviting somebody to church. 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:51.560 It's not even about just blatantly going up to someone and sharing with them about Jesus. 00:03:51.560 --> 00:03:59.100 It's about building a relationship, about engaging with them and through the relationship, learning about them 00:03:59.100 --> 00:04:09.000 and learning how to share with them about Jesus, learning how Jesus helps them and helping them develop and walk through this. 00:04:09.040 --> 00:04:09.600 It's beautiful. 00:04:09.800 --> 00:04:15.560 It's beautiful what's happening is we're seeing blessed practices work here in the physical space. 00:04:16.180 --> 00:04:20.560 And at least where I came into the conversation, I started asking myself, can we do this digitally? 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:25.340 Could you do blessed practices digitally? 00:04:25.740 --> 00:04:32.980 Begin with prayer, listen, eat together, serve people and share Jesus with them. 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:36.080 That is what blessed practices looks like in the physical space. 00:04:36.640 --> 00:04:37.980 How do we do that digitally? 00:04:38.340 --> 00:04:41.280 And so we started that conversation with John Ferguson just a couple of weeks ago. 00:04:41.340 --> 00:04:44.240 You can go back to that podcast 216 to listen to that there. 00:04:44.320 --> 00:04:46.100 But now we got Dave Ferguson. 00:04:46.580 --> 00:04:48.460 Hey, Dave, what do you think about this digitally? 00:04:48.900 --> 00:04:51.240 And to be honest, I was surprised. 00:04:51.620 --> 00:04:57.060 I was, I'll say it, I was shocked at some of the ideas that were coming out of this. 00:04:57.140 --> 00:05:07.340 By the way, I don't know another nationally recognized church leader like Dave Ferguson, who is as supportive of digital and metaverse church as Dave Ferguson. 00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:08.320 Incredible. 00:05:08.720 --> 00:05:14.940 And some of the insights that he shared in his willingness to support this next generation of churches is beautiful. 00:05:15.300 --> 00:05:25.320 And so if you're trying to think outside the box, if you're at all curious about what a digital missionary could look like, I would strongly suggest listen to this roundtable and join the conversation. 00:05:25.320 --> 00:05:31.000 We got Dave Ferguson, myself, Jeff with the church, digital, and so many other things. 00:05:31.500 --> 00:05:41.780 And I don't know, maybe 12, 15 other people joining in in the conversation here with this episode 218, Digital Missionaries and the Power of Shared Experience. 00:05:42.160 --> 00:05:43.240 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:05:44.100 --> 00:05:45.860 I'm going to start kind of with my story. 00:05:45.860 --> 00:05:57.780 I mean, when I first became a Christ follower, I mean, I was like 19, 20 years of age and genuinely just so pumped, so excited about the love of God. 00:05:57.860 --> 00:06:00.560 I think I got grace, like for the very first time. 00:06:00.640 --> 00:06:03.760 If you remember what that was like when you really understood grace for the very first time. 00:06:04.680 --> 00:06:06.620 And I mean, I want to share that with everybody. 00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:10.940 And I think maybe wired the way I am, I tried. 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:16.460 But I have to say, I did it in the most obnoxious way possible. 00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:21.700 I remember, like, I would be, I would do street evangelism. 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:26.280 I would walk straight up to people, basically verbally assault them. 00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:28.720 I don't know if you remember the two diagnostic questions. 00:06:28.900 --> 00:06:33.500 I would say, have you come to the place in your spiritual life where you know for certain if you die tonight, you'd go to heaven? 00:06:34.280 --> 00:06:39.160 And if they dare to answer that question, then I would assault them with another question. 00:06:39.320 --> 00:06:44.620 And I'd say, and if you did die tonight, and God asks you, why should I let you in my heaven, what would you say? 00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:58.060 And basically what I was doing in kind of this approach was I was asking questions, answering questions, rather, that nobody was asking. 00:06:58.580 --> 00:07:00.800 And I was asking questions that they didn't want to answer. 00:07:01.380 --> 00:07:03.200 And basically it was a total disaster. 00:07:03.500 --> 00:07:04.640 Just didn't work. 00:07:04.640 --> 00:07:08.180 It was good motives, but just did not work. 00:07:09.060 --> 00:07:11.180 A few years later, I become a youth pastor. 00:07:11.620 --> 00:07:14.560 Then eventually at age 25, I become a church planner. 00:07:15.740 --> 00:07:16.760 And so I said, okay, you know what? 00:07:16.860 --> 00:07:17.400 Forget that. 00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.540 What I want to do is I want to just kind of live my life for Jesus. 00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:22.380 The other didn't work. 00:07:22.440 --> 00:07:23.900 I'm just going to live my life for Jesus. 00:07:24.280 --> 00:07:27.880 I'm going to try to live like him and not use words. 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:38.380 And the end result in my neighborhood was I think my neighbors thought I was a really good guy, but nobody came to know Jesus. 00:07:39.380 --> 00:07:42.300 And I just, for me, I felt like there had to be a better way. 00:07:42.360 --> 00:07:48.780 And I think now, even as a pastor then, I know not only did I want it for me, but I also wanted it for the people in my church. 00:07:49.840 --> 00:07:54.180 And for a very long time, I was, you know, familiar with Genesis chapter 12. 00:07:54.320 --> 00:08:00.340 I kind of call it the blessing strategy now where, you know, God speaking to Abraham, he said, listen, I'm going to bless you. 00:08:00.500 --> 00:08:01.640 I'm going to make your name great. 00:08:02.240 --> 00:08:03.300 You're going to be a blessing. 00:08:03.420 --> 00:08:05.140 And all the people on earth will be blessed through you. 00:08:06.100 --> 00:08:10.960 And God was basically saying, you know, I'm going to bless you and then you're going to bless the rest of the world. 00:08:12.580 --> 00:08:22.720 And I think for a long time, I thought of that more as kind of a pithy saying, you know, you're blessed to be a blessing or like a bumper sticker or something you see crocheted on a pillow somewhere. 00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.040 Rather than really how to love your neighbor, how to change the world. 00:08:28.760 --> 00:08:32.460 But there was something that I ran across that made me kind of rethink that. 00:08:33.020 --> 00:08:35.880 And I don't know if John shared this or not. 00:08:35.960 --> 00:08:39.320 You can jump in here two weeks ago if you guys heard it. 00:08:39.520 --> 00:08:43.680 But I ran across this study called Blessers vs. Converters. 00:08:43.780 --> 00:08:46.140 I don't think you've heard me tell this or maybe John told it or not. 00:08:46.780 --> 00:08:48.260 But Blessers vs. Converters. 00:08:49.020 --> 00:08:51.880 It's actually, it was kind of buried in a doctoral thesis. 00:08:53.200 --> 00:08:56.460 And the study was based on two teams of missionaries that both went to Thailand. 00:08:57.400 --> 00:09:01.520 And they went to Thailand with two distinctly different missional strategies. 00:09:02.160 --> 00:09:06.080 So, and what they had, there was what they, they literally called one group the Converters. 00:09:06.660 --> 00:09:11.280 And their sole intention was just to convert people, to evangelize people. 00:09:12.020 --> 00:09:14.900 And they would even say, we're trying to save souls back in the day. 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.980 And then they had the second group was the Blessers. 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:20.560 And their sole intention was just to bless people. 00:09:20.700 --> 00:09:25.200 And they would even say, we're just here to bless, just bless whoever God brings our way. 00:09:25.820 --> 00:09:29.520 They followed these two different teams of missionaries for two years. 00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:32.220 And they had two observations they discovered. 00:09:33.260 --> 00:09:41.640 First, they discovered that the Blessers, actually their presence in the community created a lot more what you'd call social capital. 00:09:42.320 --> 00:09:46.020 It was a better, made it a better place to live, a better society, a better community life. 00:09:47.080 --> 00:09:47.440 Nothing. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:52.880 There was no measurable difference in regards to the difference the Converters made as far as social capital. 00:09:53.260 --> 00:09:54.420 That was the first observation. 00:09:55.160 --> 00:10:07.620 The second observation they made, though, and this was very surprising, was the Blessers, over two years, actually had 50 times as many conversions as did the Converters. 00:10:07.800 --> 00:10:18.700 That the Blessers actually saw 100 people, almost 100, not quite, but almost 100 people come to faith, you know, find and follow Jesus, versus the Converters, over the course of two years, had two. 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:29.340 And kind of the bottom line on this study was that if you're trying to love your neighbor, if you're going to share the love of God with someone else, the best way, and the way they kind of coined it, was to be a blesser. 00:10:30.860 --> 00:10:34.300 Now that, and I'll tell you what, I'll go ahead and throw, I was going to share my screen. 00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:35.580 I'll go ahead and share my screen here. 00:10:36.820 --> 00:10:38.720 I got some stuff, we'll just do that. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:53.160 Then I ran across this Barna research group did a study, and it was kind of an eye-opener that just kind of followed suit with this. 00:10:53.880 --> 00:11:03.560 And they asked people, that would be like our friends and neighbors, they said, what would you value in a person with whom you'd talk about spiritual matters? 00:11:04.540 --> 00:11:05.780 That was the question they asked them. 00:11:05.840 --> 00:11:09.720 What would you value in a person with whom you would dare to talk about spiritual matters? 00:11:09.720 --> 00:11:14.080 And here were the top three qualities that came up in order. 00:11:14.420 --> 00:11:19.540 The number one thing, they said this, I would value someone who would listen to me without judgment. 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:23.120 Someone who'd listen to me without judgment. 00:11:23.820 --> 00:11:29.720 And I would follow it up with, I think listening is one of the purest acts of love. 00:11:31.900 --> 00:11:41.540 And the sad news in this study was that two-thirds of the people that were surveyed said they had nobody in their life that they felt like listened to them without judgment. 00:11:43.500 --> 00:11:48.660 And I started thinking about some of my early attempts, okay, to share God's love. 00:11:49.300 --> 00:11:55.200 And my focus was always on what I would say, and so consequently, I did most of the talking. 00:11:55.680 --> 00:12:06.700 And if I did ask a question, the only reason I asked a question was not to actually listen, but it was so I could kind of maneuver the conversation in a way so I could respond with this clever answer. 00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:17.780 And I think, I genuinely think, maybe today more than ever in my lifetime, people need other people who will just listen to them, listen to their story. 00:12:18.220 --> 00:12:19.760 And it's something we're all capable of doing. 00:12:20.500 --> 00:12:25.900 The second thing they said when they asked our friends, our neighbors, who would you most likely talk to about spiritual things? 00:12:26.340 --> 00:12:27.740 They said someone who'd listen without judgment. 00:12:27.860 --> 00:12:32.460 And secondly, they said someone who will allow me to draw my own conclusions. 00:12:32.680 --> 00:12:45.980 And this is just another one of those great reminders that our neighbors and our friends, whether it's literally next door, like Ray and Nikki, or it's digitally next door, they're not projects, they're people. 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:55.000 And they're looking for someone who will not force a conclusion on them, but will trust them to have their own spiritual journey. 00:12:55.640 --> 00:12:59.920 It's the same way that God trusted us to have our own spiritual journey. 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:10.200 And again, when I think about my early failed attempts, okay, my heart was in a good place, but my strategy was just brutal, because I knew the outcome I wanted. 00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:14.380 I wanted them to say yes, I wanted a chance to baptize them that night. 00:13:15.600 --> 00:13:18.720 So it was good intentions, but poor tactics. 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:27.160 The third quality they said they were looking for was they wanted someone who has confidence in sharing their own perspective. 00:13:28.120 --> 00:13:41.240 So after you, number one, listen to your friend, and secondly, after you give them the space to come to their own conclusion, it's then and only then that people around us are saying, okay, now I would like for you to confidently share your own perspective. 00:13:42.240 --> 00:13:55.240 And I just kind of call that paying the relational rent, that once you've invested in a relationship by listening to them and loving them, no matter what they ultimately decide, then you'll have a permanent place in their life. 00:13:55.880 --> 00:14:03.280 And hopefully you'll have the opportunity to share your story about the difference that Jesus has made in your life with them. 00:14:04.280 --> 00:14:16.280 Now, for me, with that blessers versus converters kind of doctoral thesis, and then some of this research from Barna, I began to look at the life of Jesus. 00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:26.520 And what I discovered in his life in ministry, this really was his approach, that he did listen without judgment. 00:14:26.920 --> 00:14:37.360 In fact, if you go back to the Gospels, and some people have documented this too, I mean, there's about 50 questions he asks for every answer that he gives in the Gospels. 00:14:40.180 --> 00:14:42.500 He also allowed others to draw their own conclusions. 00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:43.840 Like, think about the rich young ruler. 00:14:44.860 --> 00:14:46.360 He told him the truth. 00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:47.800 Here's what you need to do. 00:14:48.220 --> 00:14:49.120 And he led him. 00:14:49.180 --> 00:14:50.160 He walked away sad. 00:14:51.560 --> 00:14:54.380 And he also, he confidently shared the good news. 00:14:54.540 --> 00:14:56.240 Now, he said, I am the way. 00:14:57.380 --> 00:15:06.360 And the more I studied, I think, Jesus' life and ministry, the more I began to see that what emerged kind of for us were these kind of these five missional practices 00:15:07.180 --> 00:15:10.560 that he would use over and over again to love people, to bless people. 00:15:11.180 --> 00:15:15.760 And what we simply did then is we kind of took those and went, like, how do we put this in a package, 00:15:16.300 --> 00:15:19.020 put this in a way that actually is memorable, that sticks with people? 00:15:19.080 --> 00:15:21.780 And that's when we came up with this BLESS acronym. 00:15:22.520 --> 00:15:29.880 That it has made a big, big difference at Community Christian Church as far as mobilizing people for mission. 00:15:31.640 --> 00:15:35.960 It's become the National Evangelism Strategy for the Covenant Denomination. 00:15:37.180 --> 00:15:42.260 And there's a whole, there's about 400 churches in Austin now that are doing something called BLESS Austin, 00:15:42.400 --> 00:15:49.280 where in the next five years, they want to actually bless by name all 2.7 million people across Austin. 00:15:50.980 --> 00:15:52.880 And it's kind of, it's gotten some traction. 00:15:53.040 --> 00:15:54.800 Now, John already shared this, so I'll just hit him real quick. 00:15:54.860 --> 00:15:56.900 If you have questions about it, we can talk about it. 00:15:56.920 --> 00:15:58.140 But simply, they're this. 00:15:58.500 --> 00:15:59.980 The B stands for begin with prayer. 00:16:01.020 --> 00:16:06.900 And again, with Jesus as our example, I mean, when he started his earthly ministry in Luke chapter 6, 00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:08.640 it says he went out on the mountain and he prayed. 00:16:09.500 --> 00:16:12.060 And this is my journal. 00:16:13.420 --> 00:16:18.980 And one of the things I try to do on a regular basis, I just write the word BLESS on here. 00:16:19.100 --> 00:16:24.700 And then I write the names of like, you know, five to eight of my friends or neighbors. 00:16:24.980 --> 00:16:26.120 And you know what? 00:16:26.200 --> 00:16:28.360 These are people I'm, these are people that I'm praying for. 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:32.300 I'm saying, okay, you know, God, give me a chance to really share your love with them. 00:16:33.780 --> 00:16:35.640 The L stands for listen. 00:16:36.580 --> 00:16:47.740 And again, I personally think one of the real issues with more Christians as a whole is that we're much more known for our talking than we are our listening. 00:16:48.640 --> 00:16:53.700 And I love the example of Jesus, like in Luke chapter 18, with the blind man. 00:16:53.840 --> 00:16:58.000 He doesn't assume that the blind man wants to see. 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:01.320 The first thing he does, he says, what do you want me to do? 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.440 He asks him a question. 00:17:03.300 --> 00:17:09.800 He gives him dignity and waits and listens, listens for his response. 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:11.360 And then he, then he, then he heals them. 00:17:12.740 --> 00:17:14.140 The E stands for eat. 00:17:15.500 --> 00:17:25.660 One of the things I love about the BLESS practice is different than maybe some other missional strategy or even outreach or evangelistic kind of strategies is this is not something that you have to do in addition to your life. 00:17:25.980 --> 00:17:27.200 This is how you live your life. 00:17:27.540 --> 00:17:31.720 And so like even the eating part, you have 21 opportunities, you know, if you eat three times a day, 00:17:32.260 --> 00:17:41.660 throw in a, you know, coffee or dessert, you may have 30, you have 30 kind of opportunities to include other people in your life. 00:17:42.020 --> 00:17:44.280 And I can go on and on about that one. 00:17:44.280 --> 00:17:44.560 And I love it. 00:17:44.560 --> 00:17:50.300 The S, again, Jesus said, I came not to be served, but to serve. 00:17:51.020 --> 00:17:51.720 And here's the deal. 00:17:51.840 --> 00:17:59.200 Once you're praying for somebody and you're listening to them and you get to the place where you're sharing meals with them. 00:17:59.580 --> 00:18:02.180 I tell people, this is like a remedial course in friendship. 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:03.700 And that's what Jesus did. 00:18:03.740 --> 00:18:04.940 He was called a friend of sinners. 00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:12.080 And for any of you that are married, okay, or you've dated anybody, seriously, I mean, you do the same thing. 00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:16.220 You know, some of you may be praying, but you listen, you eat, and then you serve. 00:18:16.480 --> 00:18:18.360 You love them the way they want to be loved. 00:18:18.480 --> 00:18:19.780 That's how you develop relationships. 00:18:20.020 --> 00:18:20.660 You serve them. 00:18:21.160 --> 00:18:23.240 And then lastly is story. 00:18:23.440 --> 00:18:32.440 And the story part is, I think, just understanding that, yes, proclamation is important, but it doesn't necessarily have to be first. 00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:45.400 And then, in fact, after you've paid the relational rent, when you tell your story then, then it's much, the collateral of the story has a lot more gravity to it. 00:18:45.500 --> 00:18:50.540 Because now they trust you, they know you, and maybe they even kind of love you. 00:18:51.900 --> 00:18:56.020 So, this has been a big, big help to me personally. 00:18:56.280 --> 00:19:06.120 It's been a big help to the people in our church and a number of people really around the world who we've got a chance to share this with. 00:19:06.620 --> 00:19:08.800 So, I'll just put that out there. 00:19:08.940 --> 00:19:15.960 That's kind of a little bit of my story, how we kind of got there, and then kind of the implementation of it. 00:19:16.300 --> 00:19:16.820 Yeah, beautiful. 00:19:16.820 --> 00:19:18.620 So, you've got the bless. 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:20.240 So, begin with prayer. 00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:28.300 Before doing anything, bake it in prayer, so that it's grounded in God. 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:38.380 You're listening to people, you know, and especially in digital space, it's much better to listen and ask questions than it is to make statements. 00:19:38.380 --> 00:19:44.120 And so, listening gives permission for people to trust you. 00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:51.080 They trust you when you listen to them because they see that you're valuing them over yourself. 00:19:51.500 --> 00:19:52.620 You're eating together. 00:19:52.740 --> 00:19:53.760 That's interesting. 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:55.580 We can nuance that here in a little bit. 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.600 You can serve. 00:19:57.360 --> 00:19:58.440 You're serving. 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:03.660 You're positioning yourself in a place of serving. 00:20:04.680 --> 00:20:06.340 There's some humility with that. 00:20:06.540 --> 00:20:07.520 You're sharing your story. 00:20:07.640 --> 00:20:08.940 You're sharing Jesus' story. 00:20:09.480 --> 00:20:14.160 And it's interesting that, really, the story component is at the end of this thing. 00:20:14.300 --> 00:20:17.760 Like, it's not at the beginning, oh, let me tell you what's going on in my life. 00:20:18.120 --> 00:20:23.280 It's much more about positioning after the fact. 00:20:23.700 --> 00:20:26.080 Well, hey, look, guys, I want to open this up. 00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:29.080 Guys and guests, I want to open this up for conversation. 00:20:30.540 --> 00:20:32.640 What do we like about this? 00:20:32.760 --> 00:20:36.120 Maybe what are some challenges that we're seeing in digital space? 00:20:36.280 --> 00:20:39.200 I sincerely, I want to use this as an opportunity. 00:20:39.400 --> 00:20:40.720 You are the focus group here. 00:20:40.960 --> 00:20:44.640 And we have Dave freaking Ferguson on the call. 00:20:44.780 --> 00:20:48.960 So, you tell me what works digitally, what doesn't work digitally. 00:20:49.120 --> 00:20:50.000 Let's nuance it here. 00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:50.720 Who's going first? 00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:52.240 My question is this. 00:20:52.420 --> 00:20:53.180 So, it's great. 00:20:53.320 --> 00:20:55.820 It's deep, personal, relational ministry. 00:20:55.820 --> 00:21:00.640 I mean, it's the type of ministry that I deeply love and what we built youth group and stuff on. 00:21:00.760 --> 00:21:01.700 And I love it. 00:21:01.760 --> 00:21:02.560 And I love the strategy. 00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:03.720 It's, like, easy to understand. 00:21:04.340 --> 00:21:10.540 But how do you see this transferring to streaming culture in a world, like, for my world, right, 00:21:10.600 --> 00:21:16.620 there are hundreds of thousands, millions and millions of people who come for intentional one-way communication 00:21:16.620 --> 00:21:19.000 where they're literally looking for a talking head. 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:24.180 I mean, they come to spectate the guy on the street corner who is shouting at them to come to Jesus. 00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:30.840 And so, how does this translate to a world where the biggest influencers are the people 00:21:30.840 --> 00:21:35.680 who are not building relationships with their viewer base and their fan base, 00:21:35.760 --> 00:21:37.280 the people who are consuming their content? 00:21:37.860 --> 00:21:46.780 Could you flip the coin and say that the influencer is trying to motivate people to do the blessed practices? 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:52.980 So, the influencer is not activating the blessed practices necessarily. 00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:57.040 But that's what they're encouraging people to do. 00:21:57.580 --> 00:21:58.840 Does that, do you think that would work? 00:21:58.920 --> 00:21:59.820 I'm curious. 00:22:00.100 --> 00:22:01.520 Streaming culture being what it is. 00:22:01.860 --> 00:22:02.600 Would that work? 00:22:03.100 --> 00:22:04.120 Mark doesn't think so. 00:22:04.580 --> 00:22:05.240 He's just trying to do that. 00:22:05.540 --> 00:22:09.320 I didn't know if I was being asked that question or if Dave was being asked that question. 00:22:09.400 --> 00:22:11.860 I wasn't real sure if I was supposed to unmute. 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:14.120 So, I'd still... 00:22:14.120 --> 00:22:14.900 You tell me, Mark. 00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.320 Okay. 00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:17.940 I don't, I don't. 00:22:18.080 --> 00:22:18.980 I mean, yeah, sure. 00:22:19.120 --> 00:22:24.420 I mean, a lot of what we're doing is we're using streaming in digital space to bridge a gap and build relationship. 00:22:24.420 --> 00:22:31.680 But a lot of what we're doing is saying, hey, we're meeting you online, but we're constantly trying to navigate you towards more relational spaces. 00:22:33.000 --> 00:22:36.860 But that isn't necessarily the culture and the bent of our stuff. 00:22:37.140 --> 00:22:40.920 So, yeah, I was just curious to hear what Dave thought about, like, how... 00:22:40.920 --> 00:22:43.720 Yeah, let me take a stab at this, Mark. 00:22:43.760 --> 00:22:46.860 And maybe I'm, maybe this is an air ball, but what the heck. 00:22:48.500 --> 00:22:57.060 The, the, the biggest, I mean, is the, is, is, should the aspiration, I mean, there's going to be people who are, who are influencers, right? 00:22:57.620 --> 00:23:00.000 In the digital space, significant influencers. 00:23:02.080 --> 00:23:04.520 Millions and millions of people engaging with them. 00:23:05.200 --> 00:23:09.580 In the physical space, that's kind of the equivalent of an Andy Stanley or a Craig Rochelle. 00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:11.840 Right? 00:23:13.080 --> 00:23:15.720 And I guess, and here's maybe my question. 00:23:16.720 --> 00:23:23.860 Do we want to create models where we're, our aspirations are just to be Craig Rochelle or Andy Stanley? 00:23:24.700 --> 00:23:31.740 Or do we want to create models that we're trying to mobilize everyday people to be able to engage digitally? 00:23:32.740 --> 00:23:33.240 You know what I'm saying? 00:23:33.940 --> 00:23:40.980 So, I would say this is probably not a great strategy for Craig Rochelle because he's like one of the best communicators on the planet. 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:45.380 And he ought to keep doing his thing, what he's doing. 00:23:46.160 --> 00:23:48.460 It's probably not a great strategy for Andy Stanley. 00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:55.560 But my hunch is it's probably a great strategy for the 10,000 or 75,000 people in his church. 00:23:56.360 --> 00:24:05.840 So, I think to your question, I would probably compare those folks to high profile, brilliant communicators who just have it. 00:24:05.880 --> 00:24:06.880 There's a different gifting. 00:24:07.840 --> 00:24:14.180 But if we're trying to mobilize lots of people for mission, I'm going to suggest maybe this works. 00:24:14.260 --> 00:24:14.620 Now, I don't know. 00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:15.140 What do you think? 00:24:15.800 --> 00:24:18.060 Yeah, I mean, this is what we're trying to figure out. 00:24:18.360 --> 00:24:19.760 So, no, but I love that. 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:22.780 And, you know, the streaming culture is an interesting one. 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:30.800 And I streamed for three hours today to 20 some people and half of them spoke to me, which means there was 105 people through my stream. 00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:33.520 The vast majority of them never said a word to me. 00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:40.100 But I had the chance to influence them in some capacity because of the time that I spent with them. 00:24:40.260 --> 00:24:49.040 And the question then becomes for us, like, how do we move those people into more intentional relational spaces where we can do exactly what you're talking about, which is what I want to do. 00:24:49.360 --> 00:24:51.280 So, but I love it. 00:24:51.340 --> 00:24:55.920 Like, how do we train people to do exactly that massively, you know? 00:24:56.440 --> 00:25:00.480 Would this not be a better tool, not necessarily for Twitch, but for Discord? 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:10.600 I mean, like, train your hosts in Discord and Facebook groups to operate in a blessed mindset. 00:25:11.400 --> 00:25:17.340 You know, that first engagement to position, begin with prayer. 00:25:17.800 --> 00:25:18.700 Listen to that. 00:25:18.780 --> 00:25:20.580 And you're training your first responders. 00:25:20.780 --> 00:25:28.780 I don't know what your term that you use, Mark, but that first level engager that's reaching out to the new people, you're running them through the blessed practices. 00:25:29.100 --> 00:25:30.440 It would be interesting. 00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:34.180 You're right, Twitch, because so many people don't talk, might be a challenge. 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:38.780 Jeff, you said that because most of the folks on there are playing games and they're interacting in a different way. 00:25:38.860 --> 00:25:41.100 So, it's kind of like they're already just hanging out. 00:25:41.520 --> 00:25:46.100 And so, this is a way to actually equip them for how to engage in conversations that can lead to spiritual things? 00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:54.580 Well, the way that Mark and streamers would use Discord is that's where really the discipleship, that's really where the relationships are happening. 00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:55.360 Mark's right. 00:25:55.360 --> 00:26:05.620 Like, the majority of people are consuming a product on Twitch, but the goal of Twitch is to drive to Discord, at least for the average streamer. 00:26:05.860 --> 00:26:08.960 And so, or the average church that's doing streaming. 00:26:09.500 --> 00:26:13.900 And so, I mean, really, I would see that being more of a focus on the Discord piece. 00:26:14.240 --> 00:26:20.440 And I don't want to get stuck on the, there's so many other applications to get into beyond just the streaming component. 00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:29.100 But I do think it's interesting to wrestle with how it could fit into a Discord, how it could fit into some of these asynchronous communities. 00:26:29.300 --> 00:26:45.800 But even more than that, really, I think BLESS gets to this place of multiplying it outside of our asynchronous communities, where now we're leveraging the people that are connecting with us, and we're helping them do it in their physical space, in their digital space. 00:26:45.800 --> 00:26:49.380 And that's where we're starting to see a lot more intentional multiplication. 00:26:49.380 --> 00:26:57.480 The idea of the, I forget the story, I typed it in chat, but it was like, it's not the consumer, or it's not the converter. 00:26:57.900 --> 00:27:08.740 It's the blesser, because you're allowing that trust to get built by beginning with prayer, by listening, by eating type of thing. 00:27:09.080 --> 00:27:09.960 So, love it. 00:27:10.980 --> 00:27:13.860 Somebody else, what do y'all think? 00:27:14.040 --> 00:27:17.320 I really think, like, I'm thinking about the angle scale. 00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:28.860 I talked to one of our people on DCN today, understanding that Twitch is basically like the 21st century version of the radio. 00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:34.100 So, they're more than just a communication tool of a sermon. 00:27:34.300 --> 00:27:43.800 It's actually more like Dave Ramsey on the radio every day, because you got, it's very interactive, very fast-paced, long periods of time. 00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:54.000 Pulling them to Discord can be the place where, like, Discord can be the front door for actually getting to know people, and then pulling them into relationships. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:28:04.500 So, you're going to have to think through a funnel on that, and think through different spaces in the angle scale to say, okay, our community here in Discord for this part is going to be here. 00:28:04.860 --> 00:28:06.560 So, I think channels would be a part. 00:28:06.880 --> 00:28:10.680 I'm just, as I'm listening to the conversation, those are the things I'm thinking about. 00:28:10.940 --> 00:28:14.580 And I just want to be, I'm not trying to derail what we're talking about at all. 00:28:14.940 --> 00:28:25.540 The reason I'm asking is because we're gathering together, like, the top 15 or 20 biggest influencers in Twitch that are Christians and are living as digital missionaries in Cincinnati in a couple of months. 00:28:25.660 --> 00:28:36.340 And we're literally going to be walking in with them, and one of the sessions is about multiplication and how to actually disciple and deal with crisis inside of the community of people that God's enabling you to minister to. 00:28:36.540 --> 00:28:41.180 Because a lot of these people are really great entertainers, but they don't have any pastoral experience. 00:28:41.180 --> 00:28:54.360 So, I'm like, yeah, I want to take this, but how do I, I really want to use this, but I want to know the best ways to take this and train them on this system so they can really begin building relationships, living as missionaries and discipling. 00:28:55.020 --> 00:29:00.640 The already big raging fan base that they have that are watching them play video games and preach every day. 00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:04.220 So, that's why I'm asking, because I think it's incredibly useful. 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.200 I just see the top-down and the bottom-up approach. 00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:12.360 So, you're going to have, like you said, the Andy Stanleys, the Craig Groeschels, they're going to do their thing. 00:29:12.900 --> 00:29:21.740 But those guys need to be all in on the grassroots doing the individual day-to-day things rather than trying to be them. 00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:33.780 So, the top-down, bottom-up approach, as you're thinking through that place, those people of influence have the ability to really push the ball forward in the movement of practicing this. 00:29:34.080 --> 00:29:39.860 And, to be honest, you should do, for one, what you wish you could do for everyone, as I quote Kerry Newhoff. 00:29:40.320 --> 00:29:48.580 So, even as we get more influence, we should take some time to do that with our people as well, as much as we possibly can. 00:29:50.020 --> 00:29:58.900 I'll throw out, I mean, Jeff hinted at this a little bit, too, and maybe the challenge for those people in influence really are to create blessed cultures. 00:30:01.260 --> 00:30:09.340 And I think Chesley's exactly right, that if you want to create a culture, I think, I mean, to me, there's three components. 00:30:09.440 --> 00:30:10.060 We can go into this way. 00:30:10.120 --> 00:30:14.980 There's one, there's value, narrative, and behavior, and you're going to reproduce who you are. 00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:32.320 So, I encourage people, even people who are leading large networks and large movements, that you have to embody the smallest level of reproduction yourself, if you want to see that throughout your whole movement. 00:30:32.700 --> 00:30:38.040 So, for example, like, I get to lead our New Thing Network, our New Thing Movement. 00:30:38.840 --> 00:30:42.260 We've helped plant, you know, about 5,000 churches. 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:53.440 So, I know that I need to have, be in a small group, and I'm in a small group on Tuesday night, and I need to have an apprentice leader in that group and be doing the stuff myself. 00:30:53.560 --> 00:30:58.680 Now, I'll do that, and then I'll also work with network leaders, helping them reproduce. 00:30:58.980 --> 00:31:06.520 I won't do all the stuff in between, but I'll do it at the largest level, and I'll do it at the smallest level, which I think is exactly what Chesley's saying. 00:31:08.380 --> 00:31:25.360 And so, like, for me, like, one of the reasons I showed you, like, you know, here's on my journal, and here's the people that I pray for, because I think, you know, for me to actually do this, and I feel like, I mean, for me to actually kind of create that kind of culture, I actually have to embody it myself. 00:31:26.560 --> 00:31:32.520 I don't know if that contributes to what you were talking about, Chesley, or if that's what you're talking about, top-down or top and bottom. 00:31:32.900 --> 00:31:39.580 Yeah, it's that you said it clearer than I did, why you said that movement leaders are supposed to create blessed cultures. 00:31:40.280 --> 00:31:43.880 But then I think what you added that, yeah, you want to do for one what you do. 00:31:43.940 --> 00:31:45.420 What was it? What was the Cary Newhoff quote? 00:31:46.140 --> 00:31:48.680 Do for one what you wish you could do for everyone? 00:31:50.020 --> 00:31:50.780 Any other thoughts? 00:31:51.780 --> 00:31:53.240 How do we eat digitally? 00:31:53.700 --> 00:31:54.500 That's a good one. 00:31:54.960 --> 00:31:56.280 Dave's doing it right now. 00:31:59.740 --> 00:32:00.960 Extra toasty. 00:32:01.500 --> 00:32:02.660 Yeah, and our church, we do. 00:32:02.920 --> 00:32:08.200 We tell people to bring whatever, depending on when their church starts, their church group starts. 00:32:08.740 --> 00:32:19.060 So it is a given we, and we talk about it, like we'll even just, you know, we have different culture representatives, so people bring different things. 00:32:19.200 --> 00:32:28.140 And it could be just as basic as, oh, I put lemon in my water all the way to lemon, you know, pasta or something like that. 00:32:28.140 --> 00:32:40.180 So it varies, and there's, granted, there gets to be competitiveness, you know, in there sometimes, but that is how we do, we, yeah, that's how we eat together. 00:32:40.340 --> 00:32:52.340 Now, when it comes to an omissional space, there's a little more structure, but I mean, there's a lot of, what do you call it, invitation to whatever you want. 00:32:52.340 --> 00:33:09.580 Even if you don't bring anything to eat, you come anyway, like if you're not prepared anything, it's just, but that's, yeah, and it's bad, and we're, and it's loud, crunching, eating, drink, it's, we keep it all, we don't mute ourselves during that time together. 00:33:10.420 --> 00:33:22.100 Yeah, I know, and I have, like, weird hearing issues, so there's some things, the crunching is, can be very distracting sometimes. 00:33:22.340 --> 00:33:32.960 I mean, when I'm facilitating, so, but that's, that's weird for me, yeah, like when people are smacking, yeah. 00:33:33.360 --> 00:33:45.900 Hey, Dave, why, why eating, why, why, why was eating, I mean, other than the E fit into the blessed model, what is it about eating that made sense for you to add it? 00:33:46.060 --> 00:34:06.220 I mean, I think that, I mean, like, think about Jesus with Zacchaeus, I mean, that, that was a life-changing meal, so, I mean, he, he was our, he was, he was our model, I mean, our Matthew's party, I mean, that, that's where life, and, and I think all of us, I mean, I remember, I remember the first date, and it really was pizza with my wife. 00:34:06.780 --> 00:34:26.080 I mean, that's, that's when our relationship changed, and, you know, we, we went out with friends last night, we had great Mediterranean food at a place called Vasili's, and there's, you know, I mean, all, there's just something that qualitatively changes when you share food with other people. 00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:35.920 One of the things that we, one of the things that we, one of the things that we have done at Community, it's not quite as dramatic as with some of the stuff you're talking about, but one of the things that we've seen as an outreach that's been super helpful is Alpha. 00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:46.600 About 40% of the people that go through Alpha at Community come out on the other side, and they will, they will say that they named Jesus as their Lord for the very first time, which is amazing. 00:34:47.100 --> 00:35:03.240 But one of the key things that Alpha has been brilliant about over the years is they always have a meal, because it, it's not the Nicky Gumbel videos that are so riveting, but it's actually the community they create, and actually the safe place to ask any questions you want. 00:35:04.060 --> 00:35:17.080 And so then they go into the pandemic, and we continue to do it, we took the whole thing online, we continue to see the same kind of thing conversion, but a lot of the, a lot of them would, they would exactly, exactly like Stacy was saying. 00:35:17.100 --> 00:35:24.760 And people would, okay, so it was kind of like, you know, bring your own, and they would, they would share a meal, and it was just like this over Zoom. 00:35:25.100 --> 00:35:42.540 I think in our culture, eating is something we just do, but in, I think in the culture that Christ lived in, as well as what's going on in the Middle East right now, it's an event, and we don't make it an event. 00:35:42.540 --> 00:35:44.620 And in an event, you get to know people. 00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:52.440 I think about some of the interviews I've had over the years, some of the applications I've filled out, so forth. 00:35:52.840 --> 00:35:59.940 One of the things that people ask a reference is, have you eaten together? 00:36:00.360 --> 00:36:02.680 And that says, that tells a lot about the person. 00:36:03.320 --> 00:36:04.240 Have you eaten together? 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:05.260 Have you shared a meal? 00:36:06.440 --> 00:36:17.360 We do it digitally, we do it face-to-face, but it makes a difference in how we, how we are of each other. 00:36:17.740 --> 00:36:28.240 So, Chesley shared an idea about Uber Eats, you know, and even in my own life, I've had people, not Uber Eats, but, you know, deliver stuff to me. 00:36:28.240 --> 00:36:30.660 You have several other op, DoorDash. 00:36:31.340 --> 00:36:37.420 You know, I've gotten DoorDash delivered a couple times by people that weren't even in the same city as me when I had COVID. 00:36:37.560 --> 00:36:48.500 I had a friend of mine who I never met, sent me candy and drinks, you know, to my house via DoorDash, which I thought was an awesome, and also it's an awesome way to serve. 00:36:48.700 --> 00:36:58.580 What are some other, maybe, and Stacey was actually talking about chomping down, literally we're watching Dave eat some Cheez-Its. 00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:05.100 Is there any other creativity centered around the idea of eating together? 00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:15.120 I mean, are we breaking out our virtual reality stuff, or are we, I know we can probably go down the metaverse side, I'm sure augmented reality, lots of stuff soon. 00:37:15.120 --> 00:37:18.140 But anybody else got any creative ideas centered around eating? 00:37:18.700 --> 00:37:26.040 That's interesting, Chris, for is there something online that can replace eating to generate the same effect? 00:37:26.340 --> 00:37:27.420 It would be interesting. 00:37:27.940 --> 00:37:41.480 I mean, there was, I mean, I don't know if it replaces eating, but there was a company in Pittsburgh called Blue Monkey Tea, and they do all these really funky kind of tea tasting stuff. 00:37:41.480 --> 00:37:47.100 And they will, and so there was this other couple, we're kind of starting to become friends, it was actually again during the pandemic. 00:37:47.860 --> 00:37:54.620 So they would email, they would mail you the tasting, and you would pair them with chocolates. 00:37:55.920 --> 00:37:58.080 And we actually did it with some friends. 00:37:58.640 --> 00:38:06.140 I mean, the people, the company who hosted the whole thing, it was online, they were based out of Pittsburgh, but the other couple was on the other side of Chicago. 00:38:06.140 --> 00:38:13.060 And, you know, tea tasting and chocolate was, and I felt like at the end of it, I got to know them better. 00:38:13.260 --> 00:38:16.560 And we actually, yeah, became better friends as a result of that. 00:38:17.040 --> 00:38:25.140 I could see, Mark is commenting in here too, gaming, you know, is another one of those heavily relational type of things. 00:38:25.140 --> 00:38:30.000 And you could definitely see that, Mark, so very, very true there. 00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:39.160 Well, as we're looking at the other, begin with prayer, listening, eating, serving, story, sharing, Jesus. 00:38:40.040 --> 00:38:42.240 Like, are there any other obstacles? 00:38:43.040 --> 00:38:45.640 You know, I know eating was the big one that stood out for me. 00:38:46.180 --> 00:38:50.520 Do you guys see any other obstacles or challenges at things like operating it digitally? 00:38:50.940 --> 00:38:57.640 I'll piggyback off of, you know, I think us talking about eating, it doesn't seem like an obstacle at this point. 00:38:57.640 --> 00:39:07.780 Because I'm just thinking of the things that you could do from a community standpoint of getting to know people, pairing like some of the gaming while doing like some, 00:39:07.780 --> 00:39:13.720 if you can put some planning together, where you are sharing the same type of meal from like the same restaurant. 00:39:14.120 --> 00:39:21.760 Like if you do some coordination logistically, where people are eating the same thing at the same time while playing a game together digitally. 00:39:22.100 --> 00:39:27.180 I think that could be a huge win from a group perspective. 00:39:27.820 --> 00:39:29.100 And it's a lot of fun. 00:39:29.180 --> 00:39:30.460 I mean, we did that in COVID. 00:39:30.860 --> 00:39:32.700 We did happy hour, let's be honest. 00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:36.140 We were tasting alcohol at the same time. 00:39:38.460 --> 00:39:40.120 So, it was good stuff. 00:39:40.540 --> 00:39:43.720 So, yeah, but we had a lot of fun. 00:39:43.820 --> 00:39:47.000 So, I could see some really cool things come out of that. 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:55.540 You know, with our friends, we had like four couples that we didn't even know that were on there with us that we got to know because of that. 00:39:55.980 --> 00:39:58.260 Still haven't met them in person, you know. 00:39:58.260 --> 00:39:59.840 So, that, which is pretty cool. 00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:05.500 So, doing things like that, I think, would be beneficial. 00:40:06.420 --> 00:40:13.060 We, with the sharing piece, though, or the serving piece, we had somebody that had surgery. 00:40:14.140 --> 00:40:22.800 And all the guys on the community, Dan Tebow, I don't think he's on a phone call, but his community got together, put money together, 00:40:22.800 --> 00:40:31.600 and bought like a full, like full week's worth of meals and like other things, all digitally. 00:40:31.600 --> 00:40:33.660 Like, these guys are all across the country. 00:40:34.040 --> 00:40:35.120 So, it was pretty cool. 00:40:35.200 --> 00:40:39.760 Like, I think you have the ability to do that in this community as well. 00:40:39.860 --> 00:40:42.180 So, I don't really see any obstacles. 00:40:42.180 --> 00:40:44.480 I think you're just going to have to think more creatively. 00:40:44.980 --> 00:40:51.820 Digital Church Network does not condemn nor condone the idea of alcohol being used in context of church services. 00:40:51.820 --> 00:40:54.420 So, I just want to stamp that right there. 00:40:54.500 --> 00:40:58.620 So, Chesley Lumby, keep that out of the conversation, please, moving forward. 00:40:58.700 --> 00:40:59.160 That'll be nice. 00:40:59.320 --> 00:41:00.520 Sorry to cut you off, Stacey. 00:41:00.640 --> 00:41:00.960 Go ahead. 00:41:01.560 --> 00:41:01.840 No. 00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:02.460 You're welcome. 00:41:03.200 --> 00:41:05.100 That was totally worth it. 00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:06.280 Yeah. 00:41:06.380 --> 00:41:07.280 So, we did that. 00:41:07.500 --> 00:41:13.320 We pretty much, in our community groups, we pretty much know each other's Venmo, PayPal, Cash App stuff. 00:41:13.460 --> 00:41:17.260 So, when there is something that happens, we just send money. 00:41:17.260 --> 00:41:21.520 Like, if we, like, our own benevolence fund. 00:41:22.200 --> 00:41:25.040 But some people don't have that, right? 00:41:25.100 --> 00:41:31.960 And so, what some people, or some people prefer sending me money and I just send it directly to the person. 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:36.720 But that, you know, that's established trust and safety and things like that. 00:41:36.800 --> 00:41:42.560 And then the lead pastor, you know, I will keep them updated on what we're doing. 00:41:42.760 --> 00:41:47.460 And then sometimes the church will step in because the church has a benevolence fund. 00:41:47.580 --> 00:41:51.740 But it starts with the group and then send things. 00:41:51.800 --> 00:41:55.380 And sometimes it is Uber Eats and meals and things like that. 00:41:55.380 --> 00:42:00.840 So, it's been more for deaths in the families. 00:42:01.600 --> 00:42:01.720 Yeah. 00:42:01.840 --> 00:42:06.780 Dr. Harris shared something earlier in chat about shared experiences. 00:42:07.920 --> 00:42:10.380 You know, maybe the idea, gaming is a shared experience. 00:42:11.140 --> 00:42:12.660 Eating is a shared experience. 00:42:13.380 --> 00:42:25.900 What are some other shared experiences, maybe beyond, in digital metaverse space that may be considered something like eating in digital metaverse? 00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:28.580 Any other shared experiences pop up to anybody? 00:42:29.260 --> 00:42:31.520 Let me specify for a second, Ken. 00:42:32.580 --> 00:42:38.160 I'm on mute for the most part because I got three kids here, seven and under. 00:42:38.620 --> 00:42:41.480 And so, it's an unpredictable environment at the moment. 00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:46.700 My wife is leading her small group tonight in the other room. 00:42:46.700 --> 00:42:53.280 So, but I think in my Facebook group, we do communion once a month. 00:42:54.140 --> 00:42:57.760 And so, obviously, we're doing it together. 00:42:58.360 --> 00:43:03.340 I'll play a YouTube video, worship video, about the blood of Jesus of communion. 00:43:04.440 --> 00:43:15.840 And so, that helps in like, so that's part of a quote-unquote shared experience, which adds to the, what I'm talking about here. 00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:19.380 Because if we have food, we're all eating at the same time, right? 00:43:19.380 --> 00:43:20.720 Having coffee at the same time, whatever. 00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:34.220 It's at the same time, and maybe even for the same purpose, but it's not, but it doesn't have the same shared experience as if, as if you just put your nachos in my cheese dip. 00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:44.660 Like, that's a shared kind of, like, there's a, so there's a different level of transparency, openness, that, you know, food, sharing a meal opens up relationships. 00:43:45.540 --> 00:43:50.100 It opens up vulnerability, transparency, things like that. 00:43:50.660 --> 00:44:01.340 So, I think these elements that make sharing a meal powerful and transformational, it takes one relationship from one level to the next, like Dave was sitting there with his wife. 00:44:02.840 --> 00:44:10.020 I mean, and I don't think anybody who was married on here didn't at some point have dinner, right? 00:44:10.240 --> 00:44:12.440 So, there's something huge about sharing the meal. 00:44:12.740 --> 00:44:25.920 And I think online, you can, you can partake of meals at the same time, but I don't think it has the same powerful effect as, like, what Mark was saying, when people are gaming together, right? 00:44:25.980 --> 00:44:32.420 So, obviously, gaming is different from eating, but I, so when he said that, it just made me think about sharing an experience together. 00:44:32.560 --> 00:44:35.380 So, in addition to eating food, like, what is it? 00:44:35.540 --> 00:44:38.900 And I think there has some kind of affinity, right? 00:44:39.000 --> 00:44:40.860 Like Mark was saying, like, they're all gaming, right? 00:44:40.860 --> 00:44:54.280 There's, so I think affinity is a part of that, some kind of a, so as you think about, you know, brainstorming, what kind of shared experiences you can actually have online, I think there's some things like that that we got to look at. 00:44:54.700 --> 00:44:55.100 Yeah. 00:44:55.280 --> 00:45:09.460 What can we be doing at the same time, like, that opens us up, whether it's, one reason why I say that is because you, if you're on watching TV online, you can now do these watch parties, right? 00:45:09.460 --> 00:45:09.980 Think about that. 00:45:10.060 --> 00:45:13.640 Or they, they, you can pick a movie, and they'll let you do a watch party online. 00:45:14.100 --> 00:45:17.360 Same way with, with Facebook, with worship services and stuff. 00:45:17.740 --> 00:45:26.500 Like, the watch party thing was a thing, because people are trying to open up these shared experiences that you can, you're experiencing something for the first time, right, together. 00:45:27.040 --> 00:45:28.700 And then you can, you can talk about it. 00:45:28.740 --> 00:45:38.820 So, I think adding to the food element online, there's got to be another thing that can actually help that go a little, go a little deeper and have that same principle there. 00:45:38.820 --> 00:45:50.740 I am so impressed you held it together that entire time with daddy, daddy, daddy, like that, that was, that was very cool. 00:45:51.060 --> 00:45:56.760 Yeah, Dave, I'm kind of vibing that eating experience a little bit. 00:45:57.060 --> 00:46:04.300 I think eating is a huge component and it's something to work on, but the intentionality of the experience, I think. 00:46:04.780 --> 00:46:08.040 Did you want to, Dave, do you want to vibe a little bit what you're thinking about that? 00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.740 No, I was just picking up on what they were, I think it was what Chesley said, too. 00:46:11.840 --> 00:46:19.960 I mean, yeah, because, I mean, I mean, we just heard a number of different things, whether, you know, it was gaming or others, that it was kind of like a shared experience. 00:46:20.500 --> 00:46:29.420 And those, that is something you're on, okay, it's not the exact same as eating, it could be eating, but what is the experience we can have together that takes a lot? 00:46:29.500 --> 00:46:36.360 Because I do think the, one of the things I've observed, I think the blessed practices, I think the right word is kind of epigenetic. 00:46:36.460 --> 00:46:49.880 They kind of build on each other, you begin with prayer, you listen, you have an experience together, and now that experience together, you really get to know each other, then you're able to serve, because you understand what needs they have, and then you get a chance to share your story. 00:46:50.140 --> 00:46:53.920 So, I mean, I, I, I, I, I'm buying it. 00:46:54.340 --> 00:46:55.680 That's why John's the doctor. 00:46:56.100 --> 00:47:01.760 He's got that, that doctrine in transformational discipleship, so that he can, he can just whip that out. 00:47:02.460 --> 00:47:03.300 Y'all are crazy. 00:47:03.760 --> 00:47:11.860 No, I actually got, I was, I was, I was thinking about it and didn't have an answer until Mark said what he said about them gaming together, and I was like, that's it. 00:47:12.480 --> 00:47:13.420 That's, that's it. 00:47:13.540 --> 00:47:18.520 They're, they're, they're sharing that, and they are, and it just opens up. 00:47:18.580 --> 00:47:26.920 It opens up conversations that open up, so in different contexts, because I think David mentioned how the culture is different back then as far as what eating represents. 00:47:27.080 --> 00:47:31.300 So, even today, with a lot of Americans with different cultures, eating can have the same effect. 00:47:31.700 --> 00:47:34.500 I mean, just like, I mean, it just does, right? 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:35.420 Yeah. 00:47:35.420 --> 00:47:43.220 But there are, there are also some other things that can also have the same effect, and that's what I just want to throw out there, because he was just a really good example of that. 00:47:43.700 --> 00:47:56.360 Then the contextualization of what experience is, demographic, age, platform, nationality, continent, like, it's, it's, it's up for grab. 00:47:56.540 --> 00:48:09.240 You create the experience that makes sense for the, you've, you began with prayer, and you listen to them, and through the listening process, hopefully it's being revealed what that experience needs to be. 00:48:09.400 --> 00:48:12.000 Like, I didn't even know it was a problem. 00:48:12.140 --> 00:48:15.920 I was actually the guy two weeks ago that was like, ah, we can make it work. 00:48:15.980 --> 00:48:16.440 It's fine. 00:48:16.520 --> 00:48:17.260 Don't worry about it. 00:48:17.300 --> 00:48:19.540 But no, I think experience really plays well here. 00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:20.800 Any other questions? 00:48:20.860 --> 00:48:24.540 We've got just a couple more minutes, and we're going to, we're going to land a plane. 00:48:24.840 --> 00:48:25.400 Go ahead, Stacey. 00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:39.300 One thing that I, that is just kind of thinking in my head is that we had someone in our crew that had eating disorder, and so we were sensitive, though, to that, and we had to be creative of what that was going to be like. 00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:56.760 And, but we would only know that because we had built trust, and that person shared that with us, but we, but that was just kind of one thing, and even same goes with, you know, alcohol or whatever, fill in the blank, whatever it is, but that was something that just kind of popped up in my head and within our small groups. 00:48:56.760 --> 00:48:57.480 It's like that. 00:48:57.980 --> 00:49:07.300 It's being aware when we make those kind of decisions, and it's as a group, obviously, but yeah, there's some sensitivities to be aware. 00:49:07.720 --> 00:49:08.380 Very, very true. 00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:08.940 Well said. 00:49:09.360 --> 00:49:11.860 Jess, can I add one, can I have one thing, and then you can land the plane. 00:49:11.900 --> 00:49:12.320 Is that okay? 00:49:12.800 --> 00:49:13.180 Yeah, sure. 00:49:13.180 --> 00:49:26.180 You just said that you asked, like, what problems do we see, and from our context, one of the biggest obstacles that we've run into is many people in the digital space are there because they don't want to enter relational spaces. 00:49:26.760 --> 00:49:36.280 Either they're dealing with problems, I have tons of people on the autism spectrum, people with significant disabilities, they're terrified to enter relational spaces. 00:49:36.620 --> 00:49:44.040 That's the reason they're engaging with us is because they don't want to engage with people, whether that's anxiety or whatever. 00:49:44.440 --> 00:49:51.480 The biggest obstacle we've had is not like, let's work this, this system is incredible, you know, it's easy to communicate, and it's really helpful. 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:53.900 Our biggest obstacle is getting people to get, enter it. 00:49:54.220 --> 00:49:57.100 Like, how do I get people to get to the point where I can listen to them? 00:49:57.200 --> 00:50:04.980 Because I have a ton of people who are listening, but won't come into a digital space where I can hear them. 00:50:05.440 --> 00:50:15.680 And so that has been one of the things that we've been working really hard to overcome in our context is, like, how do we create really intentional digital spaces where all that we're there to do is hear your story? 00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:16.260 That's it. 00:50:16.700 --> 00:50:20.700 No, no, no strings attached, like, because come and tell us your story. 00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:21.360 That's all we want. 00:50:21.880 --> 00:50:23.640 And some of that stuff has been working. 00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:24.460 Some of it hasn't. 00:50:24.520 --> 00:50:25.720 But that's been really hard for us. 00:50:25.740 --> 00:50:31.560 We just have a lot of people who that's the reason they're there, you know, because they don't want to be in some of those relational spaces. 00:50:31.680 --> 00:50:34.340 And, Mark, like, what things have worked? 00:50:36.200 --> 00:50:37.100 Personal invites. 00:50:37.320 --> 00:50:38.840 It's mostly been personal invites. 00:50:39.020 --> 00:50:48.160 Like, it has to be me going to somebody and personally in a direct message saying, hey, after church this Wednesday night, I'd really love to get to know you. 00:50:48.460 --> 00:50:51.460 Would you stop by and hang out with me in the Meet Pastor Mark channel? 00:50:52.140 --> 00:50:56.540 And if I invite people personally, they have a high chance of coming. 00:50:56.680 --> 00:50:59.880 But if we just announce it, almost no one will ever show up. 00:51:00.240 --> 00:51:07.620 But if they feel valued because we made the personal connection and made the personal invite, then sometimes they will pop by. 00:51:07.720 --> 00:51:13.340 For some people, it just takes a long time to build, to become comfortable and feel safe to share a story, too. 00:51:13.740 --> 00:51:15.600 I mean, that's a little bit of a listen, isn't it? 00:51:15.960 --> 00:51:19.020 Hey, come over here so I can listen to you. 00:51:19.020 --> 00:51:22.940 You're inviting them, you know, coming quite literally into the conversation. 00:51:24.000 --> 00:51:28.160 And so it's interesting how that would even pair out what you're describing. 00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:30.160 It's good. 00:51:30.700 --> 00:51:31.420 Who is it? 00:51:31.520 --> 00:51:33.000 Nicole, you had a question? 00:51:33.800 --> 00:51:41.940 No, actually, I was just going to speak into what Mark was saying, because since I'm in this kind of unique frame, I'm doing this with kids and youth. 00:51:42.660 --> 00:51:49.460 We see a lot of that on autism spectrum, Down syndrome, just point blank, the ability not to talk. 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:55.720 So we've come up with these creative ways and just think about it, you know, not promoing anybody else. 00:51:55.720 --> 00:52:00.920 But there are actually stations that all the button does is let you talk. 00:52:01.140 --> 00:52:06.120 So then you just listen back to everything that they're saying and you can respond. 00:52:06.720 --> 00:52:11.280 Maybe the space that they're already in is that sacred space. 00:52:11.420 --> 00:52:13.600 That's the space where they come to you. 00:52:13.940 --> 00:52:20.500 So sometimes we've made this box around our limitless possibility of church without walls. 00:52:20.660 --> 00:52:25.180 Like, this is a place where I preach, but that's the place where they come to listen. 00:52:25.800 --> 00:52:27.480 They're doing it in reverse. 00:52:27.620 --> 00:52:28.580 They've already been blessed. 00:52:28.660 --> 00:52:31.640 Now they're listening and we're trying to get them to the space to be blessed. 00:52:32.080 --> 00:52:33.040 They're already there. 00:52:33.600 --> 00:52:40.400 We just have to manipulate the space, what we call it, so that they can say, oh, this is my space. 00:52:40.860 --> 00:52:41.680 Well, I'm already here. 00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:42.880 I'm comfortable here. 00:52:42.940 --> 00:52:43.800 I come here all the time. 00:52:44.140 --> 00:52:45.780 It's easy for me to communicate here. 00:52:45.960 --> 00:52:52.140 If I go to this button and I press this button, I can just talk or record something and it'll just go to you. 00:52:52.640 --> 00:52:54.200 And then maybe you'll send something back. 00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:55.960 But I'm comfortable there. 00:52:56.060 --> 00:53:03.340 If we start out where they're comfortable meeting them where they're at already because they're already coming to you, that's the space. 00:53:03.460 --> 00:53:04.980 You already have their attention. 00:53:06.040 --> 00:53:11.260 Hey, it's 9 o'clock at least central, top of the hour, wherever you are. 00:53:12.360 --> 00:53:14.080 And so we're going to land a plane. 00:53:14.080 --> 00:53:16.800 And this has been an incredible night. 00:53:17.000 --> 00:53:20.160 Dave, thank you for taking time after hours. 00:53:20.420 --> 00:53:26.220 A lot of our people are bivocational and having the nine to five jobs. 00:53:26.420 --> 00:53:30.940 And so that's why we do these roundtables late at night and so that we're all able to see this. 00:53:31.580 --> 00:53:33.940 And so thank you for taking the time to do this. 00:53:34.400 --> 00:53:36.480 Can I say something real quick, Jeff, before you wrap up too? 00:53:37.440 --> 00:53:39.660 I want to say thank you to you all. 00:53:40.760 --> 00:53:44.100 I mean, it was nice of Jeff to invite me on. 00:53:44.180 --> 00:53:45.300 I know a little about the blessed practice. 00:53:45.380 --> 00:53:47.040 I don't know a ton about what you guys are doing. 00:53:47.180 --> 00:53:53.200 I am trying to learn and trying to stay really on the edge of what you're doing. 00:53:53.420 --> 00:53:54.760 I am convinced, though. 00:53:54.880 --> 00:54:01.500 I'm convinced what you're doing really is, I think, an important part of the future of the church. 00:54:02.100 --> 00:54:09.840 And whatever encouragement I can be and ways that I can help, I would love to be an ally for you. 00:54:10.140 --> 00:54:17.080 So I'm super excited about what Jeff is doing and putting, you know, digital churches into networks so we can start more of these. 00:54:17.640 --> 00:54:20.000 And I would love to help champion it however I can. 00:54:20.180 --> 00:54:24.860 So anyway, I just wanted to let you know that I'm a fan of each of yours and thank you for what you're doing. 00:54:25.380 --> 00:54:28.860 Oh, and we've got plans for Dave Ferguson, trust me. 00:54:28.860 --> 00:54:29.560 All right, bring them on. 00:54:29.800 --> 00:54:30.740 We're going to be good. 00:54:31.240 --> 00:54:33.180 But hey, listen, this has been great. 00:54:33.320 --> 00:54:35.660 Thank you, y'all, for joining this evening. 00:54:35.780 --> 00:54:39.800 We'll put it on YouTube and get it out there, post it in DCN. 00:54:39.880 --> 00:54:46.140 So if you want to, some of you came in late, want to catch up or share with others, you know, go to the normal channels on that to do it. 00:54:46.180 --> 00:54:49.960 But thank you very much for being part of this roundtable. 00:54:50.080 --> 00:54:52.060 Dave, once again, thank you for being here. 00:54:52.120 --> 00:54:52.980 But we're going to land a plane. 00:54:53.480 --> 00:54:57.920 So for Dave, for Jeff, for everybody else, thanks for jumping into this conversation. 00:54:58.360 --> 00:55:05.780 And I'm sure we'll have more coming up soon here as we keep diving into digital missionaries, blessed practices, how all this comes together. 00:55:06.140 --> 00:55:07.540 So thanks, y'all. 00:55:07.780 --> 00:55:08.840 And buy Dave's book. 00:55:09.180 --> 00:55:10.060 I see the book. 00:55:10.900 --> 00:55:18.660 I feel like, hey, Nicole, can you post that link in FAM so people want to buy? 00:55:18.660 --> 00:55:19.280 Sure, I'll grab it. 00:55:19.960 --> 00:55:21.260 Yeah, grab it from Amazon. 00:55:21.740 --> 00:55:24.560 And post it in FAM, not in chat, because I'm hanging up. 00:55:25.040 --> 00:55:25.880 But thanks, everybody. 00:55:26.000 --> 00:55:26.620 Appreciate it. 00:55:26.820 --> 00:55:28.560 And I'm sure we'll see you around FAM.