WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.440 When I fell, you know, the first couple of weeks I was getting texts and phone calls from people saying, oh, I hope you get better soon. 00:00:08.600 --> 00:00:12.200 I hope, you know, this this this heals quickly, whatever. 00:00:12.680 --> 00:00:21.500 But as those weeks dragged on into months, like people just disappeared and I felt completely isolated and forgotten. 00:00:22.500 --> 00:00:29.980 My local church did nothing like it's it's like nobody realized that I had just dropped off the face of the earth. 00:00:30.580 --> 00:00:35.760 And that was really when I started leaning harder into my online relationships. 00:00:35.760 --> 00:00:45.500 Like Facebook became a lifeline for me and using social media was the only way I could stay connected to the outside world for a very long time. 00:00:45.860 --> 00:00:47.340 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:48.140 --> 00:00:52.120 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.620 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:57.480 --> 00:00:59.320 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:01:00.000 --> 00:01:02.360 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:01:03.160 --> 00:01:05.880 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:01:06.600 --> 00:01:08.920 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this? 00:01:09.800 --> 00:01:13.880 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church or a startup church plant, 00:01:14.640 --> 00:01:21.540 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church digitally and physically. 00:01:22.080 --> 00:01:29.220 Our heart, that churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple making that will revolutionize your church. 00:01:29.720 --> 00:01:32.540 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:33.140 --> 00:01:33.340 All right. 00:01:33.360 --> 00:01:33.680 Hey, everybody. 00:01:33.820 --> 00:01:35.580 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:01:35.880 --> 00:01:38.040 This is episode 220. 00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:40.120 We are in the 220s. 00:01:40.340 --> 00:01:42.980 I'm feeling really old at this point. 00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.060 But not because we've done 220 of these podcasts. 00:01:46.440 --> 00:01:51.820 I just realized that 44 is the age where like your body breaks down because that's literally happening to me right now. 00:01:51.880 --> 00:01:55.500 But that's an entirely separate side conversation than what we want to get into. 00:01:55.560 --> 00:02:00.000 Well, actually, it may get there at some point, but not really what I wanted to focus on with this conversation today. 00:02:00.220 --> 00:02:02.360 So, hey, we've got a great guest coming up here. 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:04.420 But once again, it's just even kicking off here. 00:02:04.800 --> 00:02:14.040 I wanted to invite all of you, if you've not joined FAM, if you've not joined Digital Church Network's online community called FAMILY, FAM. 00:02:14.260 --> 00:02:22.580 I want to invite you to be a part of it because really when it comes to, I don't know, people who think different, people who have crazy ideas, 00:02:22.580 --> 00:02:27.360 people who are excited missionally about doing things in digital and metaverse spaces. 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:35.080 I don't know about you, but I get lots of weird looks from like the outside realm, people who don't think the way that I think. 00:02:35.220 --> 00:02:36.760 They look at me like I'm a freak. 00:02:37.320 --> 00:02:39.660 And I start talking about some of the stuff that I'm doing. 00:02:39.900 --> 00:02:44.380 And I can't tell you how many hundreds of times that I've heard the phrases, Jeff, it doesn't work that way. 00:02:44.400 --> 00:02:46.960 When in fact, it really, it really does. 00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:52.760 And so we created this FAM, this online community, almost as a sort of island of misfit toys. 00:02:52.880 --> 00:02:55.120 I don't know if that's really the way we want to describe that publicly. 00:02:55.540 --> 00:03:04.780 But it's this idea of, hey, let's gather people like-minded to challenge each other, iron sharpen iron, celebrate the wins, pray through the losses, 00:03:04.780 --> 00:03:22.460 And find ways to live on missional imagination, to do things differently for the kingdom in digital and metaverse space, to walk with God in these spaces, going with him as he is doing things for the kingdom. 00:03:22.760 --> 00:03:25.340 And so that's the heart of what we're trying to do. 00:03:25.420 --> 00:03:33.000 We've created community, we've created opportunities for care, and opportunities for coaching, all on Digital Church Network's FAM. 00:03:33.160 --> 00:03:34.280 So here's what I want you to do. 00:03:35.220 --> 00:03:37.040 Digitalchurch.network.com 00:03:37.040 --> 00:03:40.020 We'll put the link in the show notes. 00:03:40.580 --> 00:03:41.700 Digitalchurch.network.com 00:03:41.700 --> 00:03:45.140 And it's free. 00:03:45.380 --> 00:03:45.940 Set up an account. 00:03:46.060 --> 00:03:46.560 Meet some people. 00:03:46.860 --> 00:03:47.720 Have some conversations. 00:03:48.280 --> 00:03:49.020 Pray for each other. 00:03:49.200 --> 00:03:54.600 And I don't know, maybe get some help as you're on your digital and metaverse journey. 00:03:54.760 --> 00:03:55.200 Good times. 00:03:55.400 --> 00:03:56.320 Good times there. 00:03:57.040 --> 00:04:01.780 And so, hey, let's get into the conversation here with the guests for this podcast. 00:04:02.060 --> 00:04:10.160 You know, Brianna, what I've not managed to do with the podcast is transition well from the commercial into the actual guest. 00:04:10.280 --> 00:04:15.660 Every week, it's awkward, and I just really made that transition really bad. 00:04:15.840 --> 00:04:17.140 So you'll have to forgive me. 00:04:17.200 --> 00:04:18.600 Guests at home, I don't care what you think. 00:04:18.780 --> 00:04:22.800 But for Brianna, I feel bad for transitioning into this. 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:30.840 So I'm just going to tell you, right up off the top here, Brianna is arguably one of my favorite digital church planters. 00:04:31.060 --> 00:04:33.240 Like, I just, I've loved what you've done. 00:04:33.400 --> 00:04:36.300 I've loved the heart of what you're doing. 00:04:36.300 --> 00:04:46.280 You were probably, you know, when I worked with you previously, you had an eye for digital discipleship in an age where not a lot of people did. 00:04:46.600 --> 00:04:52.080 And that resonated with me, I don't know, maybe two or three years ago when we first met. 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:58.760 And so I am, I can't believe it's taken us this long to actually have you on the podcast, have a conversation. 00:04:58.980 --> 00:05:00.660 So I'm looking forward to it. 00:05:00.720 --> 00:05:06.280 By the way, I'm talking to, yeah, Brianna, I'll actually let you talk at some point in this podcast. 00:05:07.080 --> 00:05:09.260 Just at the beginning, it's just going to be the Jeffrey Cho. 00:05:09.380 --> 00:05:15.180 But Brianna is the lead pastor of Painted Prayers. 00:05:15.800 --> 00:05:23.460 And I tell you, Brianna, just even to kick this off a little bit, why don't you tell the church a little bit about, or tell the podcast here a little bit about your church, Painted Prayers. 00:05:23.820 --> 00:05:24.700 Yeah, thanks. 00:05:25.200 --> 00:05:27.900 That was a little bit intimidating of an introduction there. 00:05:28.560 --> 00:05:30.760 But I will try to live up to the hype. 00:05:31.780 --> 00:05:45.960 So yeah, I planted a digital church by accident, actually, and then sort of had to backpedal a little bit and make sure that I was going about it correctly and having a strong foundation behind it. 00:05:45.960 --> 00:05:57.960 But essentially, our church uses creativity as an inroad to creating relationship with the Holy Spirit and with God and getting to know Christ. 00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:07.820 And it's just been a really exciting journey to see the way that God, like the direction that God has taken us and kind of what's up ahead. 00:06:08.220 --> 00:06:17.820 How long have you been, because I know you were doing it, you paused, you reset, like kind of, how long have you been running the church kind of in this current implementation? 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:29.880 So where we are right now, I would say, is where we've been for the past year, which is sort of a low-level, sort of quiet movement. 00:06:31.140 --> 00:06:35.280 Prior to that, I started this as a nonprofit ministry back in 2016. 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:42.360 So I've been doing sort of this art as spiritual practice ministry for quite a long time. 00:06:43.480 --> 00:06:56.960 And then it's sort of evolved and transformed and expanded to where we are now, which is, you know, with a full-blown community and discipleship pathway and all these different resources coming together. 00:06:57.580 --> 00:07:02.040 So what's the role of art in your digital church? 00:07:02.200 --> 00:07:03.800 Like, is everyone an artist? 00:07:03.980 --> 00:07:07.100 Are you using art as part of worship? 00:07:07.100 --> 00:07:13.920 Like, maybe explain a little bit the theming and maybe the target of who you're trying to reach through Painted Prayers. 00:07:14.180 --> 00:07:15.300 Yeah, that's a really good question. 00:07:15.700 --> 00:07:19.160 So it started as just art. 00:07:19.360 --> 00:07:21.920 That was sort of the initial impetus. 00:07:22.180 --> 00:07:26.480 But it has expanded to anything that could be considered creative. 00:07:26.660 --> 00:07:33.740 So we've got people who are gardeners or love to cook and bake and see that as their creative outlet. 00:07:34.640 --> 00:07:37.520 People who really get creative with spreadsheets. 00:07:37.820 --> 00:07:38.720 I mean, that's exciting. 00:07:39.620 --> 00:07:45.260 So there's a lot of different expressions of creativity that we sort of cultivate within our church. 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:51.820 You don't have to be an actual artist or consider yourself artistic or creative in any manner. 00:07:51.820 --> 00:07:59.440 Because the idea is that what we're going after is the picture that we're first introduced to God as creator. 00:08:00.240 --> 00:08:14.320 And we're tapping into the idea that we can connect most authentically when we co-create with God or we allow, you know, we invite God into what we're creating and allow that to lead. 00:08:15.060 --> 00:08:18.460 And so that's sort of the starting point for everything. 00:08:18.840 --> 00:08:27.060 Whether it comes out, again, like as gardening or painting or anything in between, that's for the individual to figure out. 00:08:27.300 --> 00:08:27.400 Yeah. 00:08:27.480 --> 00:08:30.620 I can't believe you used the spreadsheet analogy for creative. 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:34.180 When I was creative director at a church, let's go back a decade. 00:08:34.800 --> 00:08:47.140 Actually, I told an accountant that at a church I was working at as creative director, I told one of the accountants, one of the bean counters, that it was my goal to get them to realize that they could be creative with their spreadsheets. 00:08:47.700 --> 00:08:51.980 And the woman laughed in my face, like for multiple years. 00:08:52.100 --> 00:08:53.820 Yeah, no, they are all the time. 00:08:54.140 --> 00:08:55.180 Yeah, no, I know they are. 00:08:55.380 --> 00:08:56.480 They don't know they are. 00:08:56.860 --> 00:08:59.480 I mean, literally, like it was the running joke for years. 00:08:59.580 --> 00:09:00.260 You think I'm creative? 00:09:00.360 --> 00:09:01.580 Yes, I do think you're creative. 00:09:01.860 --> 00:09:06.980 How you use the tabs and the labels and the colors and the equations, the formulas. 00:09:07.180 --> 00:09:09.600 It's all maybe, at least I think it is. 00:09:09.780 --> 00:09:10.140 Absolutely. 00:09:10.660 --> 00:09:11.060 Absolutely. 00:09:11.220 --> 00:09:12.280 You're just solving problems. 00:09:13.220 --> 00:09:14.460 That's all creativity is. 00:09:14.900 --> 00:09:18.040 You just brought back so many memories for me with that one comment. 00:09:18.240 --> 00:09:18.940 That was beautiful. 00:09:20.020 --> 00:09:21.160 Well, hey, tell me this. 00:09:21.160 --> 00:09:25.040 So you're doing this ministry centered around creativity. 00:09:25.440 --> 00:09:27.080 You're passionate about art. 00:09:27.740 --> 00:09:29.540 What makes this thing a church? 00:09:30.480 --> 00:09:36.680 So this is where it gets kind of funny because I literally was just taking one step after the other. 00:09:36.800 --> 00:09:50.480 So when I first started, I had done my own healing journey and God used art and journaling and sort of these other creative avenues to do some like profound spiritual healing in me. 00:09:50.480 --> 00:10:03.360 And then once I kind of discovered the power of that and how intimately I could connect with God on that level, I felt like God was saying, okay, now you have to teach other people how to do this too. 00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:15.320 So I started the ministry with doing the ministry with doing the ministry with doing workshops and teaching people like, I mean, sort of like the sip and paint workshops, except we weren't doing like paint by number. 00:10:15.560 --> 00:10:18.200 We were doing, let's let the Holy Spirit guide this. 00:10:18.780 --> 00:10:25.660 And it was just so amazing to see, you know, I didn't know if this was going to work for anybody other than me. 00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:33.540 And I would have all these breakthroughs and breakdowns and just incredible movements of God happening around these tables. 00:10:34.500 --> 00:10:41.080 And my health took a downturn and I wasn't able to go out and do these workshops anymore. 00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:47.160 And that's when God was like, okay, now the next step is we're going to start training other people to teach this. 00:10:47.160 --> 00:10:57.800 And so I created this training program to train instructors and it sort of took them through the first half of it, takes them through the process for themselves. 00:10:57.800 --> 00:11:10.000 So they could be sort of in step with the Holy Spirit more, could be able to understand what discipleship means, learn these creative spiritual practices for themselves. 00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:16.880 And then the second half of the training was, okay, this is how you disciple other people into this same spiritual practice. 00:11:17.640 --> 00:11:19.920 And that went amazing. 00:11:20.200 --> 00:11:23.420 It took off in ways that I definitely did not expect. 00:11:23.420 --> 00:11:31.140 I had people from all across the country and someone in South Africa who was taking this training and becoming an instructor. 00:11:32.300 --> 00:11:40.260 And then after that, there was somebody who said, well, okay, so I've got a friend who really wants to learn more, but doesn't really want to teach other people yet. 00:11:40.340 --> 00:11:41.380 Like she's not really there. 00:11:41.700 --> 00:11:43.280 Is there something for her? 00:11:43.580 --> 00:11:49.940 And so I said, well, yeah, I could split this training into the two pieces and do like a leadership training. 00:11:50.080 --> 00:11:53.340 But first you have to go through this, this discipleship path. 00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:59.080 And so then just little by little, you know, we started adding in community groups. 00:11:59.080 --> 00:12:09.700 We started adding in other resources and little by little, it just started to take on this life of its own as an actual church, which I didn't realize was happening until COVID hit. 00:12:10.200 --> 00:12:22.340 And I was working at the time as the online pastor for my local church and having so many conversations with people who, I mean, everybody panicked when COVID hit and they all had to go online. 00:12:22.520 --> 00:12:30.480 And I know all of us who were already in digital ministry were finding ourselves in that position of having conversations and coaching others and whatever. 00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:39.180 And so I started to pull in, not just the things that I was doing with online church, but also in my ministry, which was all based online. 00:12:39.880 --> 00:12:46.120 And that was when I realized, wait a minute, there's more going on here than just a random little ministry. 00:12:46.120 --> 00:12:48.120 Like this is, this is a full-blown church. 00:12:48.560 --> 00:12:49.680 Well, I tell you what, let me ask you this. 00:12:50.340 --> 00:12:53.440 How do you, you know, you've been doing this a couple of years. 00:12:53.640 --> 00:12:58.220 How do you meet off and on, maybe, and so you're focused, how do you measure success? 00:12:58.500 --> 00:13:00.480 Like, is it, is it, is it numbers? 00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:01.300 Is it views? 00:13:01.420 --> 00:13:03.220 Is it, is it new people? 00:13:03.500 --> 00:13:05.360 Like what's, what are some of the metrics? 00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.400 Are you even looking at metrics to help you figure out success? 00:13:08.400 --> 00:13:14.600 We are looking at metrics because they're there and they're useful, but that's not our primary measure of success. 00:13:14.600 --> 00:13:25.060 So we do want to know, you know, how many people are in the community, how many people are engaging with the, the pathway, how many people, you know, that kind of stuff is, is important information to have. 00:13:25.580 --> 00:13:31.100 But primarily we lean on stories to, to measure success. 00:13:31.100 --> 00:13:34.520 And so how many people are sharing their personal testimony? 00:13:34.520 --> 00:13:43.860 How many people are sharing stories of transformation within their individual groups or on their social media or in these different arenas? 00:13:44.420 --> 00:13:53.320 And so we kind of have a system set up using, you know, tracking hashtags, tracking within our community platform. 00:13:53.780 --> 00:14:01.040 We've got, you know, the ability to share stories within there so we can kind of keep count and keep track of what's, what's happening in the lives of our people. 00:14:01.700 --> 00:14:10.720 But really we, we made the conscious decision that metrics were going to kind of fall secondary because they don't tell the full story. 00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:18.700 So you're, you're going for more, what is that more qualitative, uh, getting more qualitative, qualitative over quantitative. 00:14:18.980 --> 00:14:19.120 Yep. 00:14:19.340 --> 00:14:33.640 Now, do you like, there's, is there a sermon in this thing or are you all just, um, you know, I don't mean just to be insulted, but it's, it's, you're, you're completely distributed where people are leading in small groups. 00:14:33.880 --> 00:14:36.060 Um, is there any centralized to this? 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:46.260 There is, there is, and this is what we're about to launch is into this sort of next phase of a weekly rhythm that is a little more structured than what we've been doing up to this point. 00:14:46.780 --> 00:14:55.000 So, um, we're going to follow the common lectionary as our sort of, uh, scripture guidance for week to week rhythms. 00:14:55.220 --> 00:15:02.180 And so we're following the church calendar, which I think is really meaningful in the bigger picture of what we're trying to accomplish as a church. 00:15:02.420 --> 00:15:08.540 And so at the beginning of the week on Monday, um, we post the scripture readings for the week. 00:15:08.540 --> 00:15:14.080 And then, um, over the course of the week within our community, we've got discussion questions. 00:15:14.080 --> 00:15:17.460 We've got engagement around the scripture itself. 00:15:17.460 --> 00:15:22.100 We have resources for parents to, to follow through with their kids. 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:33.420 Um, so maybe around the dinner table, they discuss this, they ask questions, they try and help their kids apply it to their weekly lives and, and do the same, you know, modeling it for them. 00:15:34.200 --> 00:15:39.700 And then, uh, at the end of the week, uh, we have, uh, a Sabbath dinner. 00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:52.360 So everybody participates in their own sort of Sabbath dinner, whether they choose Friday or Saturday or Sunday to do that and, um, invite either friends or family or neighbors to join them for this. 00:15:52.360 --> 00:16:01.620 And, and that's another time of being able to, to sort of indulge in the scripture and, uh, share what they've, what they've learned through it throughout the week. 00:16:01.820 --> 00:16:16.820 And then we have our, instead of having a regular sermon, uh, worship, sort of, um, the traditional church service, we do, um, a worship, uh, service that is creative based. 00:16:16.820 --> 00:16:29.180 So either, you know, something with music, something with art, something, something that's very sort of experiential and tactile that draws them deeper into the, the truths that they've been learning through the week. 00:16:29.180 --> 00:16:31.640 So that's sort of just a weekly rhythm. 00:16:32.180 --> 00:16:34.120 So is that, is that experience digital? 00:16:34.280 --> 00:16:35.220 Is that experience? 00:16:35.500 --> 00:16:39.780 It is, it's, it's digital, but can be taken further. 00:16:39.980 --> 00:16:48.960 So you can, if, if you're, if you're joining us by yourself, if you're just, you know, a lone person, um, you can just tune in and do it with the group digitally. 00:16:49.700 --> 00:16:59.440 If you want to, then you can take it and invite neighbors or friends or a group of people over and do the same experience together in a group. 00:16:59.440 --> 00:17:07.920 So it's really the, the, the, the goal here is to make this as accessible as possible at whatever level you're participating. 00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:15.700 So giving people options to, to do it solo, or eventually the hope is that you'll invite other people into it with you. 00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:16.360 All right. 00:17:16.420 --> 00:17:18.200 Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm going to bite here. 00:17:18.460 --> 00:17:20.020 Uh, give me an example. 00:17:20.240 --> 00:17:23.280 Like, I mean, it's, it's, listen, here, here's the deal. 00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:28.100 Like in the average church in America, the average creative is three songs in a sermon. 00:17:28.620 --> 00:17:37.200 Uh, and so you're talking about creating, uh, you know, uh, a created shared digital experience, um, online. 00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.820 Um, so yeah, I'm curious, like what, what's your favorite one? 00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:42.960 Give me, give me a couple examples here. 00:17:43.120 --> 00:17:46.500 Maybe it's inspiration for some churches that are, that are in a rut digitally. 00:17:46.700 --> 00:17:46.860 Yeah. 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:51.980 So I'll tell you one of the most surprising ones that I've tried that has worked really well. 00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:58.060 Um, I, it, it's a bit of a risk because you, anytime, anytime you do anything virtually, 00:17:58.060 --> 00:18:05.220 I think we've all learned at this point that there's a fine line between, uh, novel and 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:10.000 wonky and, you know, like where it can go off the rails real fast. 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:17.300 Um, but this, this, this one, um, I decided we were going to do, uh, uh, Lexio Divina together. 00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:23.620 And I thought like, how do you do that virtually without losing people or without them, you know, 00:18:23.680 --> 00:18:26.120 getting distracted or, you know, whatever. 00:18:26.900 --> 00:18:30.560 Um, but it actually was incredibly impactful. 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:37.380 And I think the fact that I was asking them to do something different than what they had 00:18:37.380 --> 00:18:43.560 experienced previously on, you know, zoom calls and things like that, um, because I gave them 00:18:43.560 --> 00:18:49.980 permission to turn off their cameras and to, you know, really immerse themselves in the exercise 00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:50.980 that we were doing. 00:18:50.980 --> 00:18:58.200 Um, it, it, it just really, I think freed them to be more present than they're used to 00:18:58.200 --> 00:18:58.980 being digitally. 00:18:59.460 --> 00:19:02.760 And so it ended up being a really powerful exercise. 00:19:03.300 --> 00:19:03.780 Interesting. 00:19:04.040 --> 00:19:04.900 Very, very cool. 00:19:05.500 --> 00:19:09.400 Um, well, you mentioned earlier, I mean, let's, let's pivot a little bit here. 00:19:09.460 --> 00:19:13.680 You mentioned that, uh, you had some, some health issues and, and these, this, you know, 00:19:13.680 --> 00:19:17.320 maybe influenced why you move towards the digital. 00:19:17.320 --> 00:19:22.380 Uh, and so would you feel comfortable maybe sharing a little bit, um, you know, what some 00:19:22.380 --> 00:19:24.860 of these health issues are that, that you're struggling with? 00:19:25.120 --> 00:19:25.820 Yeah, absolutely. 00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:32.320 I have had health issues on and off for the majority of my adult life. 00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:38.200 Um, and it, it never really got terribly bad until right before I turned 30. 00:19:38.760 --> 00:19:42.020 Uh, I ended up kind of going through a health crisis. 00:19:42.020 --> 00:19:47.400 This is, this is when God really stepped in and introduced the idea of painted prayers to 00:19:47.400 --> 00:19:49.980 me was that, that first really bad health crisis. 00:19:49.980 --> 00:19:53.780 And I was, I was completely upended by it. 00:19:53.780 --> 00:19:56.940 Um, doctors had no idea what was going on. 00:19:57.140 --> 00:20:02.520 They couldn't, I was running test after test and seeing, I think 17 different specialists. 00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:09.460 And it was just, it was just overwhelming and completely sidelined me at the time. 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.220 And then, um, it sort of went into remission. 00:20:12.540 --> 00:20:18.160 And so we thought, okay, well, maybe it's gone, you know, maybe, maybe I'm fine. 00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:26.300 And then, uh, in 2016, right before I formed the actual nonprofit for painted prayers, um, 00:20:26.540 --> 00:20:29.620 I started getting these really terrible headaches. 00:20:29.620 --> 00:20:32.660 I ended up, um, falling down the stairs. 00:20:32.660 --> 00:20:37.340 I had a neurological episode of some sort, fell down the stairs, injured myself really badly 00:20:37.340 --> 00:20:40.060 and couldn't heal. 00:20:40.060 --> 00:20:41.620 And they couldn't figure out why. 00:20:41.620 --> 00:20:49.940 And so again, we went through this whole cycle of, um, doctors and tests and, and I went to 00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:56.500 the Mayo Clinic and I saw the Cleveland Clinic and I, I mean, all these specialists and I ended 00:20:56.500 --> 00:21:02.100 up being diagnosed, um, first with lupus and they thought, okay, this is it. 00:21:02.140 --> 00:21:02.620 We found it. 00:21:02.640 --> 00:21:03.320 We figured it out. 00:21:03.320 --> 00:21:08.200 We got the lupus under control over the course of a year or two. 00:21:08.540 --> 00:21:11.840 And my blood work was on point. 00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:12.700 It was excellent. 00:21:13.100 --> 00:21:14.880 The, the doctor's like, you're fine. 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:20.880 And I'm like, no, I'm not because I was still in excruciating pain every day. 00:21:20.880 --> 00:21:27.780 I still had all of these crazy symptoms that were going on and, and, um, they aligned with 00:21:27.780 --> 00:21:31.960 lupus, but clearly it wasn't just lupus or something else at play. 00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:39.020 And actually it wasn't until my teenage daughter started having some of the same symptoms that 00:21:39.020 --> 00:21:44.020 our primary care doctor finally connected the dots and realized that we had a genetic disorder, 00:21:44.020 --> 00:21:46.660 which is called Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. 00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:54.000 Um, it's EDS for short, um, and it's basically all of the connective tissue in my body is defective. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:22:03.020 And so it affects everything from, I mean, joints and skin and digestive tract and eyes and brain. 00:22:03.020 --> 00:22:05.740 And I mean, there's nothing untouched by connective tissue. 00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:09.400 So, um, so that has left me disabled. 00:22:09.760 --> 00:22:16.640 And when I first got sick, um, when I first fell, I should say, um, up until that point, 00:22:16.660 --> 00:22:19.300 I was really active in my local community. 00:22:19.300 --> 00:22:21.900 Like I was, I was in all the networking groups. 00:22:21.900 --> 00:22:23.820 I had my own business that I was running. 00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.540 I was just all over the place and connected everywhere. 00:22:27.920 --> 00:22:34.040 And, um, when I fell, you know, the first couple of weeks I was getting texts and phone 00:22:34.040 --> 00:22:37.420 calls from people saying, Oh, I hope you get better soon. 00:22:37.420 --> 00:22:41.140 I hope, you know, this, this, this heals quickly, whatever. 00:22:41.420 --> 00:22:48.820 But as those weeks dragged on into months, like people just disappeared and I felt completely 00:22:48.820 --> 00:22:50.420 isolated and forgotten. 00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:54.280 Um, my local church did nothing. 00:22:54.280 --> 00:22:59.000 Like it's, it's like nobody realized that I had just dropped off the face of the earth. 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:04.680 And that was really when I started leaning harder into my online relationships. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:11.620 Like Facebook became a lifeline for me and, um, using social media was the only way I could 00:23:11.620 --> 00:23:14.460 stay connected to the outside world for a very long time. 00:23:14.980 --> 00:23:15.260 Wow. 00:23:15.780 --> 00:23:17.240 First off, thank you for sharing that. 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:21.240 I know, um, you know, there's some sensitive things, you know, in that story. 00:23:21.240 --> 00:23:27.660 And, and my wife has, uh, not the, not the EDS, but we, she has a background with, with 00:23:27.660 --> 00:23:30.380 fibro and with, um, lupus. 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:38.120 Um, and so like, just a question for you as you leaned into that, that community was, was 00:23:38.120 --> 00:23:39.020 just timetable. 00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:41.680 Was this like before church when you were doing the church? 00:23:41.680 --> 00:23:45.080 Was this complimenting kind of as you were doing the church? 00:23:45.080 --> 00:23:50.620 How did the, the health issues and what you're doing with painted prayers, how does that fit 00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:51.460 into the timeline? 00:23:52.000 --> 00:23:58.400 It's, it's actually kind of cool to see the way that God, I've just so purposefully used 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:03.760 my illness and, and my disability to, to move me where he wanted me. 00:24:04.100 --> 00:24:11.080 Um, so when I first, um, when I first fell and was injured and realized I wasn't getting 00:24:11.080 --> 00:24:15.060 better right away, that's when God was like, okay, now that you're a captive audience, we're 00:24:15.060 --> 00:24:18.000 going to, we're going to do this ministry thing. 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:20.300 So that's when I started it. 00:24:20.680 --> 00:24:27.540 Um, and then as I started to heal and got some mobility back and everything, um, that's 00:24:27.540 --> 00:24:29.000 when I started going out and doing the workshops. 00:24:29.240 --> 00:24:34.820 And then, um, the symptoms just kept getting worse and worse and worse. 00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:38.700 And, and eventually I couldn't, you know, within a few months, I couldn't do the workshops at 00:24:38.700 --> 00:24:39.880 all anymore. 00:24:39.980 --> 00:24:43.940 And so then that's when God was like, okay, now we're going to, we're going to teach other 00:24:43.940 --> 00:24:44.800 people to do this. 00:24:45.040 --> 00:24:48.400 So now that you can't like, this is where we're taking it next. 00:24:49.300 --> 00:24:55.300 Um, and then when I couldn't attend my local church anymore, I didn't have one friend who's 00:24:55.300 --> 00:24:56.900 a pastor on staff there. 00:24:57.460 --> 00:25:03.680 And he reached out to me and said, Hey, we're thinking about starting a digital campus and 00:25:03.680 --> 00:25:10.200 you are the, like the person I know that would be the best at, at leading all of this and 00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:11.140 taking all this or whatever. 00:25:11.540 --> 00:25:14.860 And so I, I came on under him at first. 00:25:14.860 --> 00:25:19.820 And then within a couple of months, he transitioned off staff to go plant his own church. 00:25:20.100 --> 00:25:22.960 And so then I was digital pastor. 00:25:22.960 --> 00:25:28.260 And, and again, like the only reason I got to be in that role was because like everybody 00:25:28.260 --> 00:25:30.120 knew, oh, this is Brianna's world now. 00:25:30.640 --> 00:25:33.520 So, so that became, that became really clear. 00:25:33.600 --> 00:25:39.160 So, yeah, I mean, just every step of the way, like God has used what I am experiencing in 00:25:39.160 --> 00:25:41.480 order to propel things forward. 00:25:41.700 --> 00:25:47.740 Do you feel, and it's, you know, I'm here, first off, I find it amazing that you got sick 00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:49.280 and God leads you to multiply. 00:25:49.300 --> 00:25:49.920 I know. 00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:55.720 Like that, really that that's just an interesting, uh, you know, and, and, and I'm sorry that 00:25:55.720 --> 00:26:01.040 it took like, I don't know, uh, these, these diseases to get you to the point of multiplication, 00:26:01.040 --> 00:26:05.020 but that, what a beautiful story of, I can no longer do this. 00:26:05.140 --> 00:26:11.180 And so God is not leading me to shut up shop and, and no longer do anything. 00:26:11.180 --> 00:26:15.840 God's now leading me to the place of training and multiplying into others and helping them 00:26:15.840 --> 00:26:22.940 do, um, what a, just a beautiful posture of, of, of, of forgive me the terms, just humility 00:26:22.940 --> 00:26:23.940 and weakness. 00:26:23.940 --> 00:26:25.480 I cannot do this. 00:26:25.640 --> 00:26:28.420 I need someone else to God, bring me the people. 00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:30.140 Oh, look, here they are. 00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:30.680 Okay. 00:26:30.680 --> 00:26:31.700 Let's do this together. 00:26:31.700 --> 00:26:38.200 Like that's just, if, if there's anything that a digital church can learn, it's that right 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:45.180 there is, is that this idea of, Hey, let's not work hard and do this on our own accord, 00:26:45.180 --> 00:26:50.000 but let's operate in weakness where God can use us to multiply. 00:26:50.460 --> 00:26:53.560 And now we are living through others. 00:26:53.900 --> 00:26:59.800 Uh, it's just such a, a beautiful, do you, do you feel like you're in this may be a silly 00:26:59.800 --> 00:27:04.880 question after that, but do you feel like your, your digital ministry is, is hindered in any 00:27:04.880 --> 00:27:07.120 way by, by the, by the health? 00:27:07.220 --> 00:27:10.000 Like is in, and I'm, I mean, let's, let's talk physical. 00:27:10.000 --> 00:27:15.460 Let's even talk emotional, mental, like there's a lot of different, uh, things flying around 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:16.000 here, right? 00:27:16.000 --> 00:27:19.340 What, what does this look like for you on the complete spectrum? 00:27:19.540 --> 00:27:19.660 Yeah. 00:27:19.940 --> 00:27:26.180 So it's interesting because every time I feel like every time I come up against something 00:27:26.180 --> 00:27:28.320 and I think, Oh, surely this is it. 00:27:28.480 --> 00:27:30.620 Like, this is the final nail in this coffin. 00:27:30.920 --> 00:27:31.940 This is where it ends. 00:27:32.080 --> 00:27:34.280 This is where, you know, I can't go any further. 00:27:34.520 --> 00:27:39.620 It seems like that's when God like opens things up wider than I could have expected. 00:27:40.420 --> 00:27:45.680 Um, and so like, for example, um, you know, you're talking about, uh, like mental health 00:27:45.680 --> 00:27:47.220 and emotional health and things like that. 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:55.500 Well, I found out a year ago at 38, a year ago, I found out that I'm autistic and I had 00:27:55.500 --> 00:27:56.760 no idea. 00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.840 And so, um, yeah. 00:27:58.840 --> 00:28:05.460 And so then I thought, Oh man, well, that means I clearly am not qualified to plant a church 00:28:05.460 --> 00:28:08.120 and be a pastor and lead people and all the things. 00:28:08.920 --> 00:28:16.500 But having gotten that, that understanding of myself and recognizing that it's not so much 00:28:16.500 --> 00:28:18.320 a limitation as it is a difference. 00:28:18.320 --> 00:28:26.180 Um, but it actually allows me into spaces and to feel compassion and empathy for people in 00:28:26.180 --> 00:28:29.880 ways that, um, most people don't have access to. 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:35.060 And so instead of, again, like instead of that being sort of like the door slamming shut 00:28:35.060 --> 00:28:39.940 in my face, like I expected, it actually opens up a whole new category of people that 00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:47.220 I am uniquely positioned to reach because do you know how many people are autistic and have 00:28:47.220 --> 00:28:52.420 social anxiety and can't go to physical church and won't step into a foreign building like 00:28:52.420 --> 00:28:52.680 that? 00:28:52.780 --> 00:28:58.240 Like all of a sudden I've just realized on a whole new level how I can connect with them. 00:28:58.760 --> 00:28:58.920 Yeah. 00:28:59.020 --> 00:29:03.760 I mean, my next question was literally going to be, do you feel yourself, uh, like because 00:29:03.760 --> 00:29:10.800 of your current position, are you, are you attracting people to your church that have some of these, 00:29:10.800 --> 00:29:13.580 uh, the physical ailments and things like that? 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.900 The autism like that, I mean, I said spectrum earlier, not in reference. 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:21.800 I know that, that just brings in a whole other paradigm. 00:29:21.800 --> 00:29:24.880 I wasn't, to be honest, I was not aware of that while walking into this. 00:29:25.340 --> 00:29:28.420 Um, I mean, this is, this is incredible. 00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.560 And so you're, you've gotten multiple health issues. 00:29:31.900 --> 00:29:33.200 You've got autism. 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:38.920 Um, you, are you, I mean, are you like, uh, I'm, I don't want to say the word shut in, 00:29:39.000 --> 00:29:40.900 but are you like locked in the house? 00:29:40.960 --> 00:29:41.820 Are you able to get out? 00:29:41.880 --> 00:29:48.160 Like what, what is an everyday for you look like, um, in your current situation? 00:29:48.260 --> 00:29:49.420 Oh, that's a really good question. 00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:54.520 I, so on a daily basis, I am pretty shut in. 00:29:54.520 --> 00:29:57.440 I, I'm not able because of my health limitations. 00:29:57.940 --> 00:30:04.000 Um, I'm a wheelchair user and, um, I struggle in getting places by myself. 00:30:04.000 --> 00:30:10.560 Like I, it's hard because I can use my wheelchair and if I absolutely have to like go to a doctor's 00:30:10.560 --> 00:30:16.480 appointment, I can, I can manage, but then I'm down for like four days afterwards because 00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.340 of the toll it takes on me to do that. 00:30:18.540 --> 00:30:23.140 Um, and half the time I'll like dislocate a shoulder in the process or something ridiculous 00:30:23.140 --> 00:30:23.980 if I don't have help. 00:30:24.700 --> 00:30:32.200 So, um, so yeah, I, I'm pretty either tethered to my husband or like, so like if we, if we 00:30:32.200 --> 00:30:37.200 have stuff that we want to do, like I, I either need him or one of my teenagers to, to help me 00:30:37.200 --> 00:30:37.740 out with that. 00:30:37.740 --> 00:30:42.740 Um, otherwise, yeah, I'm, I'm stuck in the house 24 seven outside of that. 00:30:43.280 --> 00:30:49.440 Um, and it's, it's, it's not as challenging as it used to be. 00:30:49.440 --> 00:30:55.260 I think when I first got really sick because I was used to being so independent, um, I think 00:30:55.260 --> 00:30:57.380 that it hit me really hard for a long time. 00:30:57.380 --> 00:31:05.880 And then, um, now I have this, I have this new appreciation for dependence on others that 00:31:05.880 --> 00:31:09.940 I think helps me to be more dependent on God. 00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:18.460 Um, because I, because I, I see like how much more successful I am and my family is when 00:31:18.460 --> 00:31:22.760 we, when we're able to like depend on each other, like when I depend on my husband fully 00:31:22.760 --> 00:31:24.860 instead of trying to be stubborn and do it myself. 00:31:25.520 --> 00:31:29.600 Um, and so that, that translates a lot, I think into my relationship with God too. 00:31:29.980 --> 00:31:31.300 This is, this is so weird. 00:31:31.560 --> 00:31:36.740 Uh, you just, you're, you're, you have found yourself in a position of weakness. 00:31:37.340 --> 00:31:41.700 Um, and, and by being in a position of weakness, God has actually opened up doors of strength. 00:31:42.580 --> 00:31:47.700 Um, and, and, and yes, there, there's a dependence and I'm sorry, there's dependence maybe in ways 00:31:47.700 --> 00:31:52.780 that you didn't have before, but even that, that dependence is, isn't a sign of weakness. 00:31:52.780 --> 00:31:55.340 It's, it's a sign of opportunities and strengths. 00:31:55.340 --> 00:31:55.840 Go ahead. 00:31:56.200 --> 00:32:00.640 Yeah, no, I was just going to say, you know, the, the, um, when Paul says, you know, God's 00:32:00.640 --> 00:32:02.500 power is made perfect in my weakness. 00:32:02.620 --> 00:32:08.600 Like I have, I never understood that to the extent that I understand it now that, that 00:32:08.600 --> 00:32:17.040 God, like when I let myself be weak and I let myself be not enough and I accept that about 00:32:17.040 --> 00:32:24.820 myself, then God gets to step in and do these crazy, wild, wonderful things that I can't 00:32:24.820 --> 00:32:29.760 even, I couldn't even imagine, you know, a couple of years ago that I would be a church 00:32:29.760 --> 00:32:34.540 planter or, you know, any of the other things that I'm doing, but, but yeah. 00:32:34.600 --> 00:32:40.220 And so it's hard because I mean, there are definitely times when I get a little bit resentful 00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:42.600 and wish that I could do it on my own. 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:49.540 Like I really, really, really wish that I just could power through things the way I used 00:32:49.540 --> 00:32:56.380 to, or that like when stuff gets hard or tricky, I could just like buckle down and muscle through 00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:58.440 it and, and I know that I can't. 00:32:58.620 --> 00:33:03.400 And so like, that means that this process has gone a lot slower than I would like it to. 00:33:04.300 --> 00:33:11.160 Um, it means that I can't do all the things that my brain imagines or dreams up or whatever. 00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:16.780 Like I have all these great ideas and God's like, yeah, but you need to rest this week. 00:33:16.780 --> 00:33:18.440 So we're not going to do any of those things. 00:33:18.800 --> 00:33:25.580 And so, um, yeah, it's just this constant, it's this constant need to, um, stay humble 00:33:25.580 --> 00:33:30.460 and stay dependent and, and just constantly go through that. 00:33:31.120 --> 00:33:31.960 What a beautiful story. 00:33:32.080 --> 00:33:37.500 Would you mind, could you, could you share maybe a, a story or two of, of, of how you're 00:33:37.500 --> 00:33:42.080 doing ministry, who you're doing ministry with, maybe even some of the stories of the people 00:33:42.080 --> 00:33:43.700 you're reaching through, through pain and prayers? 00:33:43.820 --> 00:33:44.960 I'd love to hear some stories. 00:33:45.380 --> 00:33:54.780 Yeah, I'm, I'm always just sort of in awe of the way that God has like moved people in 00:33:54.780 --> 00:34:00.580 my path and, and sort of, I mean, especially now you would think that like as a shut in, 00:34:00.580 --> 00:34:05.340 like who on earth am I going to come across or who am I going to, you know, be able to 00:34:05.340 --> 00:34:08.120 influence or, or impact. 00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:12.140 Um, but actually it's been, it's been the opposite. 00:34:12.420 --> 00:34:19.280 It, um, it's really cool to see even, even just like, as I post on social media, like I'll, 00:34:19.280 --> 00:34:23.180 I'll post something on Facebook or I'll, I'll post a comment on somebody else's post. 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:28.980 Um, and I've had people who, um, like, for instance, one of the things that I really like 00:34:28.980 --> 00:34:34.120 to do, um, it partly just because it helps me stay sane is that like when somebody posts 00:34:34.120 --> 00:34:39.500 on social media and says, Hey, I could use prayers for X, Y, Z, like instead of just commenting, 00:34:39.740 --> 00:34:45.580 saying, Oh, pray, praying or whatever, like I'll actually private message them and pray 00:34:45.580 --> 00:34:46.800 for them in the message. 00:34:47.400 --> 00:34:53.540 And even just that small act, I mean, it, it, it takes like five minutes and, you know, 00:34:53.580 --> 00:34:59.100 sometimes it's, I hate to say it, but sometimes it's not always wholehearted and it's still 00:34:59.100 --> 00:35:01.620 just something that I'm like, Oh yeah, I can do this real quick. 00:35:01.620 --> 00:35:08.280 Um, but the impact that that makes on people, um, it just, it's just really surprising to 00:35:08.280 --> 00:35:12.800 me because that doesn't feel like I'm doing much, but I've had people who will come back 00:35:12.800 --> 00:35:18.000 to me three weeks, a month later and say, Hey, you, this sounds weird, but you know, that 00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:23.040 day that you prayed for me, like, I just feel like that changed something in me. 00:35:23.080 --> 00:35:26.120 And I wondered if we could talk a little bit more about it. 00:35:26.900 --> 00:35:31.300 And so it's opened up the door for me to have like a really powerful conversations. 00:35:31.900 --> 00:35:37.820 Um, I've been able to work with a couple of like two people now, um, in the last year who 00:35:37.820 --> 00:35:42.600 have been struggling to get out of an abusive relationship and I've helped to guide them 00:35:42.600 --> 00:35:46.580 through that process to help connect them with the local help they needed to do that. 00:35:47.080 --> 00:35:55.140 Um, so yeah, it just, it opens up a lot of opportunities that, um, that I, I didn't anticipate. 00:35:55.520 --> 00:35:56.840 Where's your church going? 00:35:57.240 --> 00:35:58.620 Like what, what's the goal? 00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:00.540 What's, what's the, what's the five year? 00:36:00.820 --> 00:36:03.760 Do you have a picture of, of, of where you're heading? 00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:06.840 Is, is the goal to continue to multiply, to create more? 00:36:07.020 --> 00:36:10.340 Is, is it operate more in context of where you are? 00:36:10.420 --> 00:36:12.600 Is, is it release it to somebody else? 00:36:12.620 --> 00:36:18.760 Is there any desire to go physical, even outside of, of maybe some of your medical, um, ailments? 00:36:18.980 --> 00:36:22.880 Like what's, what, what do you feel like the future is holding here for Painted Prayers? 00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:29.380 So first of all, I have learned that, uh, my plans are one thing and God's plans are something 00:36:29.380 --> 00:36:30.020 else entirely. 00:36:30.380 --> 00:36:35.480 So I hold this all very loosely, like open-handed, um, you know, do, do with this as you will, 00:36:35.560 --> 00:36:35.720 Lord. 00:36:36.540 --> 00:36:44.700 Um, with that being said, though, I definitely have a vision for, um, just the way that this 00:36:44.700 --> 00:36:52.200 could spread and reach and connect with people, um, that traditional churches can't get close 00:36:52.200 --> 00:36:52.400 to. 00:36:52.900 --> 00:36:55.380 So our mission is to connect the disconnected. 00:36:55.620 --> 00:37:00.020 And when I talk about the disconnected, you know, I'm talking about physically, emotionally, 00:37:00.420 --> 00:37:00.940 spiritually. 00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:07.940 Um, there is a million reasons why people are disconnected from the church these days. 00:37:08.380 --> 00:37:16.000 Um, there are an obscene number of people who don't feel safe in the church. 00:37:16.940 --> 00:37:19.900 And I just like stuff like that. 00:37:19.920 --> 00:37:21.960 It just completely crushes my heart. 00:37:22.100 --> 00:37:29.680 And so my goal is to create this sort of backdoor into faith, right? 00:37:29.740 --> 00:37:37.960 It's a, it's a non-intimidating barrier-free way to connect with the truth of who God is 00:37:37.960 --> 00:37:41.200 and, uh, what Jesus taught. 00:37:41.700 --> 00:37:45.920 And in order to do that, I think we definitely have to keep multiplying. 00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:52.500 Um, but it doesn't necessarily, it doesn't necessarily look like any of the traditional 00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:53.520 models, right? 00:37:53.520 --> 00:38:01.080 Um, I think about the, um, the starfish and the spider that, uh, I don't know if you've 00:38:01.080 --> 00:38:07.460 read that book, but it's, it's, it's really, um, not about spinning spider webs. 00:38:07.460 --> 00:38:17.120 It's about creating these decentralized sort of, um, embodiments of church that can express 00:38:17.120 --> 00:38:19.140 themselves in a myriad different ways. 00:38:19.140 --> 00:38:25.520 So if somebody wants to start a gardening club in their local community and call that 00:38:25.520 --> 00:38:27.800 part of painted prayers church, I'm here for it. 00:38:27.800 --> 00:38:28.240 Right? 00:38:28.320 --> 00:38:30.800 Like, like I'm, I'm in sign me up. 00:38:30.800 --> 00:38:31.640 Like, let's do it. 00:38:31.640 --> 00:38:40.100 If somebody, um, has, you know, like, uh, decides that they want to bring all of their 00:38:40.100 --> 00:38:47.640 actual literal neighbors together and do block parties once a week and have food and celebrate 00:38:47.640 --> 00:38:49.740 and whatever, and call that part of painting prayers church. 00:38:50.020 --> 00:38:51.700 I'm in like, let's do it. 00:38:51.920 --> 00:38:54.700 So, um, I think it's going to look a lot of different ways. 00:38:54.700 --> 00:38:59.200 I think it's going to surprise all of us, myself included. 00:39:00.000 --> 00:39:04.480 Um, but I'm excited to see where it spreads because I know it's going to. 00:39:05.060 --> 00:39:05.160 Yeah. 00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:08.360 Your, uh, your decentralization spirits shining through. 00:39:08.760 --> 00:39:12.540 Um, by the way, have you read, you know, starfish in the spirit, uh, or excuse me, starfish 00:39:12.540 --> 00:39:13.020 in the spider. 00:39:13.140 --> 00:39:14.580 No, no, that read that a while back. 00:39:14.700 --> 00:39:17.320 Have you seen, um, starfish in the spirit? 00:39:17.800 --> 00:39:18.700 Oh yes. 00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:19.280 Yes. 00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:19.540 Sorry. 00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:20.320 That's the one I meant. 00:39:20.600 --> 00:39:20.860 Yeah. 00:39:21.400 --> 00:39:23.080 I read them both, but yeah. 00:39:23.440 --> 00:39:23.640 Yeah. 00:39:23.640 --> 00:39:24.380 Starfish in the spirit. 00:39:24.380 --> 00:39:24.580 Yeah. 00:39:24.580 --> 00:39:29.900 You were talking, yeah, you were talking, decentralizing the church and, and Rob, Rob Wagner is a good 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:30.940 friend who's been on the show. 00:39:31.440 --> 00:39:33.540 Uh, I've talked with Alan Hirsch a couple of times. 00:39:33.540 --> 00:39:40.280 And so, uh, anyway, it's, um, that, that decent, honestly, and we were having this conversation, 00:39:40.280 --> 00:39:47.400 uh, the other night, um, talking about blockchain and cryptocurrencies and just this cultural shift 00:39:47.400 --> 00:39:53.880 that, that we, that a lot of us see coming as, as a result of, um, you know, just this 00:39:54.060 --> 00:39:57.760 decentralization or cultural shift as a result of some of these technologies, even highlighting 00:39:57.760 --> 00:40:00.340 some of the things that, that you're talking about. 00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:07.140 I mean, whether this thing hits the magnitude that some think or, or, or not, what, what I've 00:40:07.140 --> 00:40:14.080 seen is that churches like yours reach a different type of person than the buildings are reaching. 00:40:14.080 --> 00:40:22.900 Like in medical, uh, medical issues or, or, or, or even not the, a decentralized approach, a, a nuanced 00:40:22.900 --> 00:40:25.700 audience towards art and creativity. 00:40:25.880 --> 00:40:31.020 Like there, there's a number of things that you're creating a safe environment for. 00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:35.220 And you used the word safe earlier, but you're creating a safe environment for people to come 00:40:35.220 --> 00:40:41.300 in and talk that aren't going to feel safe talking in the environments that they're, that the physical 00:40:41.300 --> 00:40:42.640 churches is, is, is offering. 00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:48.260 And that's not a, that's not a knock on the physicals, but it's a recognition that, um, we, 00:40:48.380 --> 00:40:52.740 the church in 2022 and beyond, we need to listen to more contextualizations. 00:40:52.740 --> 00:40:57.220 We need the Holy spirit to point us in different directions and not just start carbon, carbon 00:40:57.220 --> 00:40:57.980 copying everything. 00:40:57.980 --> 00:41:00.360 Like maybe we have been in past years. 00:41:00.360 --> 00:41:04.460 And, and, and honestly, I think that's why I love what you're doing so much through painted 00:41:04.460 --> 00:41:09.840 prayers because you have a focus on disciple making and, and, and multiplication. 00:41:10.380 --> 00:41:14.200 You have a really interesting discipleship process. 00:41:14.200 --> 00:41:21.800 You have, uh, a, a nuance with your, um, the create to creative aim that, that you're 00:41:21.800 --> 00:41:26.900 doing and, and you're operating out of a point of weakness where you have all these mental 00:41:26.900 --> 00:41:31.480 health issues or assuming not mental health, physical health issues, and that hasn't slowed 00:41:31.480 --> 00:41:32.120 you down. 00:41:32.840 --> 00:41:38.220 That's empowering you because you're operating in your weakness and allowing God to move in 00:41:38.220 --> 00:41:40.100 places that you aren't. 00:41:40.100 --> 00:41:45.060 And, and he is leading you in this rather than you dragging him behind you. 00:41:45.220 --> 00:41:48.900 Uh, it's, it's just this beautiful, beautiful picture. 00:41:49.640 --> 00:41:52.320 Um, so thank you for doing that. 00:41:52.320 --> 00:41:57.740 Uh, how, let me ask this, like somebody's, I mean, there's, there's several ways that I 00:41:57.740 --> 00:42:00.100 could ask this application question. 00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:02.540 Um, but, but let me, let me say this. 00:42:03.220 --> 00:42:06.880 Somebody out there has some medical issues. 00:42:07.380 --> 00:42:11.700 Um, you know, they, they can relate whether it's the EDS, whether it's the fibro, whether 00:42:11.700 --> 00:42:16.380 it's the lupus, whether it's a, you know, there's so many things I could say right now. 00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:18.800 I, I, and I don't, I don't know that we need to put a label on it. 00:42:19.580 --> 00:42:25.680 Um, but you, you're operating out of weakness and, and you're building something that's impressive. 00:42:26.560 --> 00:42:28.900 What, how does somebody get started? 00:42:29.320 --> 00:42:29.560 Okay. 00:42:29.560 --> 00:42:32.220 So I've got, I've got some, some medical issues. 00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:34.360 I know how to spell the word digital. 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:38.400 Like what, how do I start a church? 00:42:38.740 --> 00:42:43.360 Um, and, and really even operate out of a place of weakness in that. 00:42:43.460 --> 00:42:45.540 What, what advice would you give somebody like that? 00:42:45.640 --> 00:42:50.300 Um, so first of all, I am always available to chat about this kind of thing. 00:42:50.300 --> 00:42:56.200 So if somebody legit wants to have this conversation, like I'm always here for that. 00:42:56.200 --> 00:43:02.080 Um, but I think, I think the biggest thing is to, to start with where you are and what's 00:43:02.080 --> 00:43:02.640 in front of you. 00:43:02.740 --> 00:43:10.040 I think that every step of the way for me, it's been about looking around and saying, okay, 00:43:10.040 --> 00:43:11.280 so what can I do? 00:43:11.720 --> 00:43:17.700 Um, I think a lot of times those of us with chronic illness and disability issues, uh, we 00:43:17.700 --> 00:43:24.880 constantly come up against the limitations and sometimes all we can think is I can't do this. 00:43:24.980 --> 00:43:26.040 I can't do that. 00:43:26.700 --> 00:43:32.880 Um, and so instead flip that around a little bit and, and start asking yourself what, what 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:34.120 can I do? 00:43:34.140 --> 00:43:36.080 What, what is available to me? 00:43:36.180 --> 00:43:39.220 And so maybe that's something super basic. 00:43:39.420 --> 00:43:45.040 Maybe you just start by actually private messaging people prayers when they ask for it on social 00:43:45.040 --> 00:43:45.340 media. 00:43:45.500 --> 00:43:46.680 Maybe that's where you start. 00:43:46.680 --> 00:43:54.440 Um, maybe it's starting a Bible study or some sort of small group and, um, just learning 00:43:54.440 --> 00:44:00.400 to build connections and to, um, speak into people's lives from where you're at. 00:44:01.120 --> 00:44:08.500 I think, um, one of the, one of the things that really struck me, um, when I was a couple 00:44:08.500 --> 00:44:15.500 of years into this disability stuff, uh, my oldest daughter was 17 at the time. 00:44:16.020 --> 00:44:23.680 And she said, um, she was talking to me one day and I, she said something about the way 00:44:23.680 --> 00:44:27.780 it used to be, um, and the things that we used to do together. 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:33.080 And I kind of broke down and I told her, I said, I'm sorry that I can't do those things 00:44:33.080 --> 00:44:33.480 anymore. 00:44:33.840 --> 00:44:38.560 I'm so sorry that this is where we've ended up and that, you know, literally all I can 00:44:38.560 --> 00:44:40.380 do now is sit here and talk to you. 00:44:40.520 --> 00:44:44.880 And she stopped and she looked at me and she said, mom, she said, our conversations are 00:44:44.880 --> 00:44:48.800 the most meaningful part of my adolescence. 00:44:49.200 --> 00:44:54.540 She said, the fact that we've had so many good conversations over the last two years, she 00:44:54.540 --> 00:44:55.960 said, I wouldn't trade that for anything. 00:44:55.960 --> 00:44:58.660 She's like, I don't care about going to the park anymore. 00:44:58.660 --> 00:45:03.620 She's like, I don't care about, you know, going out for ice cream and, and doing whatever. 00:45:03.900 --> 00:45:06.080 She's like, I, I got you. 00:45:06.240 --> 00:45:08.280 She goes, and that's, that's really all I needed. 00:45:08.340 --> 00:45:13.500 So I think, I think a lot of times we can get so caught up in the things that we can't 00:45:13.500 --> 00:45:20.840 do and the things that we've lost that we completely lose sight of the magic that God 00:45:20.840 --> 00:45:22.300 is working right in our midst. 00:45:23.000 --> 00:45:26.120 So, Hey, uh, this has been a great conversation. 00:45:26.120 --> 00:45:30.520 And if you're out there and if you're listening, maybe this resonates with you, or maybe there's 00:45:30.520 --> 00:45:36.380 an opportunity, uh, to, to do something different, to, to reach a different type of person. 00:45:36.380 --> 00:45:41.180 And one of the things that I love about Brianna's story is, is that she has, I mean, if you're 00:45:41.180 --> 00:45:43.060 watching on YouTube, she literally has a painting. 00:45:43.320 --> 00:45:50.780 Behind her, she is a creative person and, and the, the creativity that she has, um, the 00:45:50.780 --> 00:45:56.640 creativity that, that God gave her, she figured out how to utilize that to create a church in 00:45:56.640 --> 00:46:00.160 digital space, uh, which is an incredible story in itself. 00:46:00.160 --> 00:46:05.740 Add in the, uh, the medical issues and the things that have, that have risen up and the 00:46:05.740 --> 00:46:11.220 fact that now she's not only attracting creative people to the church, but also becoming a magnet 00:46:11.220 --> 00:46:14.140 to some, some, some medical issue type people. 00:46:14.380 --> 00:46:20.840 Like all of a sudden now she's able to influence a completely different set of people, a completely 00:46:20.840 --> 00:46:26.080 different audience, um, than, than who she had through the physical building. 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:27.520 Physical buildings are necessary. 00:46:27.640 --> 00:46:30.460 Physical buildings will keep doing what the physical building will do. 00:46:30.680 --> 00:46:35.100 Uh, but we need to get more, uh, voices. 00:46:35.260 --> 00:46:36.860 We need to get more churches out there. 00:46:36.940 --> 00:46:43.040 And I think Brianna is, is a great example of, um, of a church that's reaching a different 00:46:43.040 --> 00:46:46.420 type of person than what the building is, is reaching. 00:46:46.420 --> 00:46:48.400 So Brianna, man, thank you for doing this. 00:46:48.460 --> 00:46:55.400 Thank you for, uh, and excited about your relaunch or your, uh, update, whatever, whatever we're 00:46:55.400 --> 00:47:01.080 calling it, that the next phase of, of painted prayers and, and, and what that's, uh, going 00:47:01.080 --> 00:47:02.100 to bring as a result. 00:47:02.200 --> 00:47:05.240 Always, always experimenting, always trying something different. 00:47:05.240 --> 00:47:08.400 But, uh, Hey, as we're landing the plane here in any closing thoughts? 00:47:08.740 --> 00:47:10.640 No, I just want to thank you for having this conversation. 00:47:10.860 --> 00:47:17.340 And I think that, um, even if there's people out there who are, um, doing any sort of digital 00:47:17.340 --> 00:47:24.660 ministry, uh, the, the disconnected, the people that are, are sort of on the margins when it 00:47:24.660 --> 00:47:31.080 comes to health and, and wellness and spiritual woundings and that sort of thing, um, we're 00:47:31.080 --> 00:47:32.640 easily overlooked and forgotten. 00:47:32.640 --> 00:47:38.960 And so I think even just having these conversations to, to keep us, um, to just remind people that 00:47:38.960 --> 00:47:42.420 we're here and that we need to be served and loved too. 00:47:42.680 --> 00:47:44.080 I think that's really, really great. 00:47:44.200 --> 00:47:44.920 So I appreciate that. 00:47:45.000 --> 00:47:45.300 Thank you. 00:47:45.660 --> 00:47:46.400 Well, thank you for doing it. 00:47:46.420 --> 00:47:49.080 Thank you for doing what you're doing and for jumping on the show here. 00:47:49.200 --> 00:47:51.660 Excited to see, uh, where God's leading you. 00:47:51.740 --> 00:47:56.460 And we'll definitely praying about what's next, uh, for painted prayers, but Hey, we're 00:47:56.460 --> 00:47:57.260 going to, we're going to wrap. 00:47:57.460 --> 00:48:02.080 So for Brianna, uh, this is Jeff, uh, with the church digital and digital church network. 00:48:02.080 --> 00:48:04.460 Thanks for jumping on the podcast here. 00:48:04.500 --> 00:48:05.480 We'll see you next time on the show. 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:06.180 Y'all have a good day.