WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.640
 But I think if you had a fund like that, where you didn't have to worry about geographical

00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:10.640
 deals and people could access it, I think some of that, the DAO model is, again, this

00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:16.560
 is why I think we are structurally having to pivot and think different than how we're

00:00:16.560 --> 00:00:18.360
 wired.

00:00:18.580 --> 00:00:20.240
 And I think it's a lot easier to build.

00:00:20.740 --> 00:00:24.400
 I think it was a lot easier for Apple to be Apple than for IBM to be Apple.

00:00:24.660 --> 00:00:26.320
 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast.

00:00:26.620 --> 00:00:31.080
 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church.

00:00:31.500 --> 00:00:35.580
 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions.

00:00:36.420 --> 00:00:38.280
 Is disciple-making possible digitally?

00:00:39.020 --> 00:00:41.300
 How should we approach the digital mission field?

00:00:42.060 --> 00:00:44.840
 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space?

00:00:45.580 --> 00:00:47.860
 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this?

00:00:48.560 --> 00:00:53.940
 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, the Church

00:00:53.940 --> 00:00:59.500
 Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally

00:00:59.500 --> 00:01:00.500
 and physically.

00:01:01.360 --> 00:01:01.980
 Our heart?

00:01:02.460 --> 00:01:07.420
 That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple-making that will revolutionize

00:01:07.420 --> 00:01:08.180
 your church.

00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:11.500
 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed.

00:01:11.980 --> 00:01:14.060
 All right, hey, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast.

00:01:14.320 --> 00:01:17.320
 I think this is episode 221.

00:01:17.520 --> 00:01:20.040
 We've done so many at this point, I can't even keep them straight.

00:01:20.820 --> 00:01:22.740
 But looking forward to this guest coming in.

00:01:22.820 --> 00:01:26.780
 This guest made one of the top three guests number of times on the podcast.

00:01:26.900 --> 00:01:27.840
 One of the OGs.

00:01:27.860 --> 00:01:29.760
 So excited about this conversation.

00:01:30.040 --> 00:01:31.080
 And hey, y'all, listen.

00:01:31.540 --> 00:01:34.120
 If you've listened to this podcast, I don't do this a lot.

00:01:34.560 --> 00:01:36.840
 But I am going to on this one.

00:01:36.880 --> 00:01:40.680
 If you listen to this podcast and you're a regular listener, you're one of these people

00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:42.140
 that are out there, I need your help.

00:01:42.340 --> 00:01:45.980
 Digital Church Network, we are a non-profit organization.

00:01:46.700 --> 00:01:52.040
 And I have someone that's willing to give $15,000 to Digital Church Network of matching

00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:52.800
 funds.

00:01:53.320 --> 00:02:01.480
 And so over the course of June 2022, I need to raise $15,000 in order to realize this other

00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:03.200
 potential $15,000.

00:02:03.380 --> 00:02:07.280
 By the way, this is going to give $30,000 to Digital Church Network, which is like the operating

00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:08.580
 cost for months.

00:02:09.280 --> 00:02:12.640
 And so I would love to tell you all the stuff that's happening with Digital Church Network.

00:02:12.960 --> 00:02:17.620
 You can catch that up at digitalchurch.network.deck, D-E-C-K.

00:02:18.060 --> 00:02:19.360
 You can download a slide deck there.

00:02:19.580 --> 00:02:21.080
 You can book time with me.

00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:25.280
 I will give you my cell phone, 484-324-8724.

00:02:25.540 --> 00:02:27.900
 You can call me, but no one ever calls me.

00:02:27.980 --> 00:02:31.140
 So text me, 484-324-8724.

00:02:31.680 --> 00:02:33.500
 But here's what I would love.

00:02:34.060 --> 00:02:39.020
 I literally, I need like 150 people to give $100 so that I can realize.

00:02:39.280 --> 00:02:42.000
 This donation of $15,000.

00:02:42.580 --> 00:02:44.200
 And so here's what I need.

00:02:44.460 --> 00:02:47.540
 Go to digitalchurch.network.com slash give.

00:02:48.120 --> 00:02:49.820
 Digitalchurch.network.com slash give.

00:02:50.120 --> 00:02:51.100
 I never do these.

00:02:51.220 --> 00:02:51.880
 You know me.

00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:53.860
 I never do money calls.

00:02:53.980 --> 00:02:55.140
 I'm really asking for it here.

00:02:55.300 --> 00:02:56.580
 I really need this.

00:02:56.700 --> 00:02:58.780
 The organization needs this.

00:02:58.900 --> 00:03:00.400
 And help us help you.

00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:03.300
 And so, hey, that's it for the commercial.

00:03:03.500 --> 00:03:04.900
 Let's actually get to the podcast.

00:03:05.520 --> 00:03:06.560
 You know what, Jay Cranda?

00:03:06.640 --> 00:03:11.100
 It's always awkward because I do these like moments like talking like this.

00:03:11.140 --> 00:03:12.920
 And now I want to transition back to the show.

00:03:13.720 --> 00:03:19.760
 And well, it's just it's like I feel bad for the guest because the guest is like, you know, you just heard this spiel.

00:03:19.820 --> 00:03:24.620
 And now I'm trying to be all serious having this, you know, completely separate conversation about what it just was.

00:03:24.620 --> 00:03:26.480
 And I have no idea how to transition.

00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:29.340
 So maybe you can help me transition.

00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:30.240
 Could you help me transition?

00:03:30.700 --> 00:03:34.240
 No, I would just I would just be like, please help Jeff out.

00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:36.100
 He, you know, really needs the money.

00:03:36.480 --> 00:03:38.160
 And please do it.

00:03:38.380 --> 00:03:40.300
 That would be my that would be my pitch.

00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:43.260
 I have like images of like up late at night.

00:03:43.860 --> 00:03:48.420
 Like like the, you know, the dog that's hungry, you know, kind of going on.

00:03:48.620 --> 00:03:50.720
 I was about to say, could I give you a puppy?

00:03:50.840 --> 00:03:52.700
 Like, would that help this moment be any better?

00:03:52.700 --> 00:04:04.160
 But I will say to all the listeners, that was a very quick pitch because a lot of people, man, their pitches in podcasts and YouTube, they're getting so long that you're like, oh, come on, come on.

00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:05.140
 So that was great.

00:04:05.180 --> 00:04:05.640
 I liked it.

00:04:05.660 --> 00:04:06.200
 I liked the read.

00:04:06.280 --> 00:04:06.660
 It was good.

00:04:06.840 --> 00:04:07.240
 Very good.

00:04:07.480 --> 00:04:08.860
 We'll put all the links in show notes.

00:04:08.940 --> 00:04:09.740
 I forgot to say that.

00:04:10.540 --> 00:04:11.940
 Everything will be there in show notes.

00:04:12.020 --> 00:04:18.760
 But seriously, give to this and so that we can continue to help in digital and metaverse church ministry.

00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:19.780
 So cool.

00:04:20.140 --> 00:04:20.300
 All right.

00:04:20.300 --> 00:04:21.820
 Hey, so let's shift gears for real.

00:04:21.820 --> 00:04:29.880
 And let's get into this conversation with, man, one of the OGs, one of the original gangsta when it comes to online ministry.

00:04:30.300 --> 00:04:33.060
 Guy's been doing online ministry for a decade.

00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:34.400
 I just found out.

00:04:35.060 --> 00:04:35.820
 Jay Cranda.

00:04:36.300 --> 00:04:37.260
 So how are you doing, Jay?

00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:38.380
 I'm doing good, man.

00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:40.660
 We are rocking and rolling.

00:04:40.900 --> 00:04:46.320
 I know I just looked at my LinkedIn and I have been full time as the online pastor this month, 10 years.

00:04:46.460 --> 00:04:53.120
 And so I did it a few times, a few years prior, part time, kind of grew into a full time role.

00:04:53.200 --> 00:04:57.260
 But I could not believe time moves very fast.

00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.460
 I know that's what everybody says as you get older.

00:04:59.460 --> 00:05:01.260
 But that is crazy to think about.

00:05:01.740 --> 00:05:05.800
 So if you don't know Jay, Jay's the online pastor, digital pastor.

00:05:05.940 --> 00:05:07.100
 What's the actual title?

00:05:07.100 --> 00:05:09.640
 My title is online community pastor.

00:05:10.160 --> 00:05:13.000
 Online community pastor at Saddleback Church.

00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:15.680
 Just a small church there in Southern California.

00:05:16.040 --> 00:05:16.840
 May have heard of it.

00:05:17.360 --> 00:05:27.840
 Rick Warren, the old boss, the former boss, retiring, you know, legacy there with purpose-driven church, purpose-driven life, purpose-driven whatever.

00:05:28.580 --> 00:05:33.960
 And now transitioning over, you just got a new boss or was just announced, Andy Wood, right?

00:05:34.240 --> 00:05:34.980
 Andy Wood, yeah.

00:05:35.100 --> 00:05:41.140
 We are so excited to have, you know, it's a weird, anybody who's been through a transition like this.

00:05:41.160 --> 00:05:44.900
 I was talking to a couple other friends who've gone through kind of founding pastor transitions.

00:05:45.100 --> 00:05:46.920
 It's a really weird transition.

00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:51.520
 I've been under Pastor Rick's, you know, leadership influence, you know, for 10 plus years.

00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:55.020
 And so there's like this mourning, but there's also this excitement, you know.

00:05:55.020 --> 00:06:00.020
 I was sharing right before we hit record that, you know, he's only like five or so years older than me.

00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:07.820
 And just seeing what he's done, how he influences things, I am beyond pumped right now.

00:06:08.020 --> 00:06:12.900
 So honestly, it's like we got to wait till September, but I'm like, come on, like, let's just do this now.

00:06:13.080 --> 00:06:13.540
 You know what I mean?

00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.580
 I want to cancel vacation plans this summer and just let's go.

00:06:16.940 --> 00:06:24.780
 You're going to be the guy, the stalker guy that's just hanging outside his office, waiting for the meeting, waiting for the guy.

00:06:24.780 --> 00:06:27.280
 Have you ever, I've seen this happen.

00:06:27.640 --> 00:06:33.000
 And so I don't recommend this, but the guy who corners the lead pastor in the bathroom to have a conversation.

00:06:33.640 --> 00:06:35.680
 Don't, don't, Jake Tranda, don't be that guy.

00:06:35.980 --> 00:06:37.180
 I will not be that guy.

00:06:37.500 --> 00:06:38.180
 Don't be that guy.

00:06:38.260 --> 00:06:38.440
 Okay.

00:06:38.520 --> 00:06:38.920
 All right, good.

00:06:39.000 --> 00:06:43.060
 I'm glad you're not going to be the guy that corners the lead pastor in the bathroom.

00:06:43.160 --> 00:06:44.480
 That would be a bad thing.

00:06:45.020 --> 00:06:45.420
 Awesome.

00:06:45.480 --> 00:06:46.480
 So definitely excited.

00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:58.440
 Loved, you know, what I know of, of, of Rick Warren in his transition and how much Saddleback has done for the community, for the, for the kingdom, global kingdom.

00:06:58.440 --> 00:07:04.100
 I mean, something like a mission trip or a missionary sent to every country in the world.

00:07:04.100 --> 00:07:15.460
 Like there's just this ridiculous legacy, uh, under, under Rick's reign, uh, range, not the right word under Rick's leadership, but, uh, it definitely excited about, uh, the road ahead.

00:07:15.460 --> 00:07:16.600
 So have fun.

00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:18.400
 We'll have to bring it back and have that conversation.

00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:19.900
 And we're going to wrap the podcast.

00:07:20.160 --> 00:07:20.920
 This is no, I'm kidding.

00:07:21.140 --> 00:07:23.080
 There's a whole other subject we wanted to get into.

00:07:23.240 --> 00:07:25.040
 So here's the deal with, with Jay.

00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:34.080
 Jay may be the first person I ever heard say the words decentralized church in together.

00:07:35.000 --> 00:07:39.820
 And so, and that's been a language that, that I've used and at DCN we use all the time.

00:07:39.820 --> 00:07:43.320
 And we've started to really kind of pick up some steam on that.

00:07:43.440 --> 00:07:51.340
 Now decentralized church in many ways is like the word discipleship where it means 47 different things to 47 people.

00:07:51.740 --> 00:07:54.460
 And so it's, you know, let's, let's kind of bring it in.

00:07:54.540 --> 00:07:58.260
 Let's get some clarity and let's talk about at least from Jay Cranda's perspective.

00:07:58.780 --> 00:08:05.280
 What, what is he thinking about when he's saying the word decentralized church?

00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:08.680
 And so tell me Jay Cranda to open up this conversation here.

00:08:08.800 --> 00:08:15.100
 What, what does the centralized church mean to you guys or to you and you slash Saddleback, whatever the context is?

00:08:15.100 --> 00:08:19.340
 Yeah, I would answer this kind of off of a larger kind of movement.

00:08:19.340 --> 00:08:23.240
 Like you kind of see how God works in different time periods.

00:08:23.380 --> 00:08:31.140
 I don't know if it's so, so much that it's our thought or if it's like, we're even going to like really lean in heavy into it.

00:08:31.440 --> 00:08:34.760
 I think we're, we're teaching, experimenting church.

00:08:35.180 --> 00:08:45.680
 And so we're always trying different things, but I do feel at a, at a high level that the internet and technology is allowing us to do church in a very unique way.

00:08:45.780 --> 00:08:54.800
 I don't think it's changing the basic elements of what church is, but I think it is changing how churches are structured and how things can kind of grow.

00:08:54.800 --> 00:09:15.860
 And so if you think of it, like, you know, the last 40 years or so you've had this, and really you would say the last 10 years, maybe it hasn't been as effective, but from like the eighties all the way through the early two thousands, you had like the mega church movement of, you know, instead of these small regional churches, you had very large churches of 2000 plus people.

00:09:16.060 --> 00:09:31.400
 That could be large gatherings, have large facilities and offer a large variety of services like support groups, counseling, kind of think of it as like a full service hotel, you know, the difference between a motel to like a, maybe a JW Marriott, you know what I mean?

00:09:31.580 --> 00:09:34.160
 That you could do more when you centralize all your resources.

00:09:34.500 --> 00:09:46.480
 You know, this is the irony if you always look at, you know, other faiths, like, you know, the Mormon faith, you look at their faith and like they have some pretty robust digital efforts that they've ran campaigns.

00:09:46.480 --> 00:09:48.720
 And it's because they have a centralized budget.

00:09:49.140 --> 00:09:54.340
 They can do some, the modern evangelical church is very segmented, you know what I mean?

00:09:54.780 --> 00:09:59.800
 But if you centralize everything, you have bigger budgets, you can do bigger things and offer more to that specific community.

00:10:00.340 --> 00:10:10.060
 And so that, that has been a huge way specifically, you know, in first world countries generally, and mainly in the U S it's thrived that God has worked.

00:10:10.760 --> 00:10:27.020
 And I think with decentralized church, what I've seen, and I've started to see people experiment and you've already seen this happen in the middle East and China and so forth is maybe you have, you know, clusters of gatherings that aren't centrally hub, meaning they aren't connected to a mothership.

00:10:27.660 --> 00:10:38.920
 You know, um, you kind of think of it kind of like, uh, you know, I, you kind of think of it as like kind of how crypto is where you have crypto is the idea is that you, you can't really bring down Bitcoin.

00:10:38.920 --> 00:10:44.200
 You know, you can't buy all the Bitcoin and own it all it's on thousands upon thousands of devices.

00:10:44.940 --> 00:10:46.960
 Um, and it's not centralized.

00:10:47.260 --> 00:10:51.400
 And so you can kick all the miners out of China, but Bitcoin is going to survive.

00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:55.940
 Um, you have to bring down the internet and essentially do that, which I guess hypothetically is possible.

00:10:55.940 --> 00:11:05.000
 But, uh, you know, that that's the idea is that like our churches, we have 17 plus locations, but we're still regionally located in Southern California.

00:11:05.000 --> 00:11:08.840
 Like the hub of us, I think, I think decentralized, you're going to have.

00:11:09.740 --> 00:11:14.960
 You're going to have pastors coming out of seminary and doing things and they're already doing it where they're going to not sign leases.

00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:22.620
 And they're going to start preaching live on Facebook or YouTube or flogging or whatever and build audiences and then have regional in-person gatherings all around.

00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:27.820
 And they're not going to really think of it as like one's better than the other, but it's fully spread out.

00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:32.740
 And I think it is hard for a big church to think small, um, cause it's a huge shift.

00:11:33.180 --> 00:11:40.180
 Um, it's, it's, it's why big corporations struggle with that shift to the next, cause you have to kind of cannibalize your existing market.

00:11:40.180 --> 00:11:52.120
 And I think in a way that's really tough, but I, I really, I think in a time like this decentralized where you can just meet anywhere and enable anything, you just provide vision.

00:11:52.120 --> 00:11:54.520
 And I, I think decentralized church is a large movement.

00:11:54.660 --> 00:11:58.960
 I don't think it's going to be the only way God works moving forward.

00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:01.120
 The same ways to make a church wasn't the only way.

00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:08.220
 I just think it will be potentially one of the main ways God works through microsites and all this over the next, um, 20 years.

00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:09.520
 And then there'll be another movement.

00:12:09.700 --> 00:12:10.180
 You know what I mean?

00:12:10.340 --> 00:12:11.020
 I, I, you know.

00:12:11.380 --> 00:12:13.180
 Yeah, there's all, I mean, there's nothing new under the sun.

00:12:13.200 --> 00:12:14.020
 It's always cycling.

00:12:14.020 --> 00:12:20.340
 There's, there's always a change in, in the systems and the methods of today may not be the systems and the methods of tomorrow.

00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:23.540
 Um, I, I do agree with that.

00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:25.280
 What, let me, let me ask you.

00:12:25.360 --> 00:12:31.340
 So, I mean, you're describing an influencer, um, without saying the word influencer and maybe influencer is a taboo word.

00:12:31.340 --> 00:12:37.140
 I mean, I struggle even saying influencer, uh, when talking about a pastor, but that's, that's what it is.

00:12:37.140 --> 00:12:41.420
 It's a, it's a person that is, is, has influence online.

00:12:41.860 --> 00:12:46.540
 That's growing to create micro locations scattered around the country.

00:12:46.780 --> 00:12:48.540
 Now, Saddleback's done a little bit of this.

00:12:48.760 --> 00:12:52.420
 You know, I know you had like, uh, places here in Florida.

00:12:52.420 --> 00:12:54.260
 I remember maybe Tampa area.

00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.160
 And so you had some of these, these micro locations scattered around.

00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:05.460
 I mean, maybe some of the ecclesiology is different in these types of things, but would you, did you consider those church?

00:13:05.600 --> 00:13:10.880
 Like, was that a church, what you were doing in Tampa or some of these physical micro locations that you had?

00:13:10.880 --> 00:13:18.760
 Yeah, so we, so I think it's important that the way we think about this, like, um, theologically is we have one church.

00:13:18.900 --> 00:13:21.760
 And so we have Saddleback church and we have many locations.

00:13:21.760 --> 00:13:27.780
 And depending on what that location is, it, it's, it's labeled something else.

00:13:27.780 --> 00:13:42.280
 So like a campus would be one of our primary ways we talk about are like larger locations where they have multiple services, a campus pastor, they have, you know, and then we have something called a venue, which is typically regionally connected to a campus.

00:13:42.280 --> 00:13:47.560
 So they're within a geo location of a campus and they're supported by that campus.

00:13:47.560 --> 00:13:59.700
 And then you have, which we call now extensions, which are, you know, under a hundred and they're primarily meeting in homes and some are meeting in larger venues, but, and they meet primarily monthly.

00:14:00.200 --> 00:14:04.400
 And they're just primarily just a worship service and there's no staff present.

00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:10.520
 And so, and, and so we do have 14 of those right now that are happening.

00:14:11.040 --> 00:14:21.800
 Uh, we've talked on, I believe past podcasts about this, that this is something we've tried on and off again for probably, you know, honestly the last eight years, um, on some level.

00:14:22.020 --> 00:14:27.420
 Um, and there's all sorts of reasons why there's been learnings, but, and failures around that.

00:14:27.540 --> 00:14:36.440
 Um, but we've really leaned in heavy coming out of COVID to go, we think that this is a way we could have a lot of growth, but I think there's still a lot.

00:14:36.440 --> 00:14:45.440
 I think I mentioned it casually, but I think it's really hard for a big church to think like this because when people think of our church, they think big.

00:14:45.780 --> 00:14:55.020
 And so when you, when you show up to, when you show up to our Lake Forest campus, our like largest location, you know, you, that's what you think of Saddleback Church.

00:14:55.020 --> 00:15:04.960
 But when you show up to a Saddleback Church, you know, in, you know, the, you know, the suburbs of Orlando and you're just kind of walk into a home and you're like, what is, this is not Saddleback.

00:15:05.100 --> 00:15:05.520
 You know what I mean?

00:15:05.700 --> 00:15:10.120
 And so I think some of that stuff is still stuff like we're trying to figure out.

00:15:10.240 --> 00:15:18.380
 It's also really hard to, you know, what's the training that's necessary to coach a leader, to kind of a volunteer, to, to kind of go, Hey, you can do a small group, but you know what?

00:15:18.400 --> 00:15:20.180
 You can actually host a service.

00:15:20.360 --> 00:15:22.400
 And I still think there's some cultural things there.

00:15:22.400 --> 00:15:27.860
 I just had a conversation a couple of nights ago with a woman who's leading one of these extensions in the Philippines.

00:15:28.660 --> 00:15:42.020
 And, um, she, she's had up to 60 people attend one of her gatherings and she was dealing with people in her community that didn't think she should be the leader.

00:15:42.020 --> 00:15:42.800
 Cause she was a woman.

00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:51.760
 And I had to like, you know, so there's all these, you know, outside of feeling equipped and there's like social things, you know, especially in the Philippines, there's going to be more of a cultural.

00:15:52.140 --> 00:15:58.780
 There's a expectation that it's a man and, you know, and so you have all these like issues that pop up, you know?

00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:01.040
 And I think for us, we just believe in the model.

00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:07.160
 So we're pushing to get to 50 and kind of, I think every group we're kind of seeing it as like a new learning.

00:16:07.400 --> 00:16:10.480
 Okay, here's one, one error, even like costs.

00:16:10.540 --> 00:16:12.760
 Like how do we like giving is a great example.

00:16:12.860 --> 00:16:16.300
 We were really wrestling through, like, how do we handle the financial needs of these?

00:16:16.300 --> 00:16:20.560
 Because if we're going to handle all the expenses, it's too much administration.

00:16:21.020 --> 00:16:22.240
 How do we decentralize this?

00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:26.860
 So like, they just, you know, how can they just collect tithe and then they, they handle it.

00:16:26.940 --> 00:16:33.020
 And then if there's leftover, they send a saddleback, but like that gets real gray real quick and gets real messy real quick.

00:16:33.160 --> 00:16:36.200
 And so I just, we just really believe in it.

00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:41.100
 And we're just kind of leaned in super heavy the last four months.

00:16:41.500 --> 00:16:48.360
 And, um, we're going through our next phase right now of a re, uh, like a, we've kind of come out of a beta and now we're going to have more of a public launch.

00:16:48.420 --> 00:16:51.320
 And, um, and it's just every day.

00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:56.940
 I feel like every other day I'm learning something from each of these leaders, stuff we need, stuff we can't do.

00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:01.780
 And so, yeah, you know, you've, you've said a couple of times, it's hard for a big church to think small.

00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:05.860
 And I find that ironic because the small church dreams of being big.

00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.860
 Uh, and then when it gets there, they need to, to think small and it's kind of like cyclical logic.

00:17:10.860 --> 00:17:18.560
 We can, we can get into it at some point, but it seems to me that, that a lot of the, the struggle with struggle with the larger churches that are thinking this way.

00:17:18.580 --> 00:17:32.120
 And I'll even say this from, from my own experience, you hinted a little bit with, with the money part is this, is that it feels like bigger churches don't know how to release control or they get stuck into situations where they feel like they need to control.

00:17:32.200 --> 00:17:41.640
 And some things that, that they really don't need to, they need to be more open to contextualization than they don't want to, but they don't want to release that, that control aspect into it.

00:17:41.940 --> 00:17:45.900
 Um, I'm just only because you're already kind of dancing this dance a little bit.

00:17:46.020 --> 00:17:47.640
 How much are you feeling that?

00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:52.200
 Like, are you, do you, do you see that too much control, too little control?

00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:56.360
 Like what, what is that, what's that tension look like in Saddleback as you're doing these extensions?

00:17:56.720 --> 00:18:00.440
 Yeah, I definitely think that's probably, you probably hit it right there.

00:18:00.440 --> 00:18:08.440
 That there's definitely a, like, we might call it like a Saddleback standard of what it means to be part of a, of a worship service.

00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:17.580
 You know, um, I remember when we experimented with this five years ago, we did one in Northern California and it was very simple.

00:18:17.580 --> 00:18:24.920
 I just knew I had a bunch of people there and we, I went up there, rented a hotel space, found somebody to lead worship.

00:18:24.920 --> 00:18:32.920
 And we, and I literally played the service from my laptop and I just, but we had like 80 people or something show up and it was a total experiment.

00:18:33.460 --> 00:18:38.580
 I just knew we had a lot of people up there and I just wanted to see like, Hey, I'm, I used to be a youth pastor.

00:18:38.660 --> 00:18:39.740
 I know that I was church.

00:18:39.740 --> 00:18:40.980
 Like, this isn't that complicated.

00:18:40.980 --> 00:18:44.080
 Just find some speakers and projector and hook up my computer.

00:18:44.080 --> 00:18:46.700
 And I literally like use the computer that I brought with me on the airplane.

00:18:46.800 --> 00:18:47.200
 You know what I mean?

00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:57.960
 And, um, and I remember I got a call that next week cause I didn't really talk to a lot of people about it, which wasn't like a probably great idea on my end.

00:18:58.580 --> 00:19:04.620
 Um, but I got a call that somebody, pretty much somebody had found out that I was promoting it as a worship service.

00:19:04.980 --> 00:19:11.640
 I come to a worship service in, in the Bay area and somebody at Saddleback was, you can't call it a worship service.

00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:16.200
 Cause it has to meet these standards and pretty much we, we didn't have banners.

00:19:16.380 --> 00:19:21.280
 We didn't have all the, the experience wasn't, you know, Saddleback, whatever that is.

00:19:21.280 --> 00:19:24.560
 And I was like, Oh, so I just went, I'll call it something else.

00:19:25.020 --> 00:19:26.520
 Like I'll just call it a gathering.

00:19:26.620 --> 00:19:27.000
 You know what I mean?

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:30.860
 Like if, if I have to, there's all this red tape to do all this stuff.

00:19:30.860 --> 00:19:33.260
 And so I'm like, I, and I don't think we're there yet.

00:19:33.300 --> 00:19:34.480
 I don't know what we have.

00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:41.320
 I'm just trying to, I'm like, I've, I've always feel this way about a lot of this stuff online.

00:19:41.580 --> 00:19:47.800
 I feel like there's so much theory and I'm just like, I'm not an academic.

00:19:47.800 --> 00:19:50.680
 Like, I don't like, we can speculate all we want.

00:19:50.780 --> 00:19:57.660
 I just want to get 15 and just see like, what are the 15 tell us and let the 15 shape the next 30.

00:19:57.660 --> 00:20:04.220
 And, and I think, um, so yeah, I think that's definitely a big thing that we're, we're leaning

00:20:04.220 --> 00:20:09.160
 into how do we release these in a way that there isn't a lot of control.

00:20:09.160 --> 00:20:11.260
 And honestly, for me, that's super easy.

00:20:11.520 --> 00:20:13.560
 I'm super open source.

00:20:13.560 --> 00:20:16.900
 You know, anybody on my team would tell you like, I'm not a micromanager.

00:20:16.900 --> 00:20:18.960
 Like it's not, those aren't my strengths.

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.480
 And so I, I, I'm like, just go do it.

00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:25.320
 Like if you want to do it, go do it and tell me how it goes and tell me what, like, what

00:20:25.320 --> 00:20:25.900
 are the blockers?

00:20:25.900 --> 00:20:30.800
 And so the problem is, is that I know when you're doing, like, for example, when you're

00:20:30.800 --> 00:20:35.520
 collecting money, there's some tape, there's some, there's some issues there.

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:41.200
 I can't, I, I know I can't like the, one of the big stoppers is I can't have people do

00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:43.680
 childcare because of liability and safety concerns.

00:20:44.000 --> 00:20:45.440
 And so those are real issues.

00:20:45.440 --> 00:20:50.280
 So how do I expect a group of people when they got 50 people and they want to do childcare?

00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:51.660
 Cause that's what you do in church.

00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:54.760
 Like it's so essential to have a child service.

00:20:54.760 --> 00:20:58.360
 And I, I'm like, I, we can't figure it out right now because we don't know how to, I don't

00:20:58.360 --> 00:21:01.000
 know how to get fingerprinted and stuff internationally.

00:21:01.000 --> 00:21:07.020
 Like, I just don't like, even I, I found out this past week that we use life scan for a

00:21:07.020 --> 00:21:09.660
 lot of our process and apparently that's state to state.

00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:14.260
 And so we have processes for California, but in order for somebody to do it out of state,

00:21:14.260 --> 00:21:17.580
 they got to go get paperwork from their state government.

00:21:17.580 --> 00:21:19.120
 And then they got to send it into light.

00:21:19.140 --> 00:21:22.740
 Like there's this whole, so we got it all figured out here, but, and so there's all this

00:21:22.740 --> 00:21:24.400
 stuff that I'm like, Oh crap.

00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.800
 Like this is, there's all this stuff.

00:21:26.800 --> 00:21:32.480
 So I definitely think we're leaning towards more autonomy and just how do we even, and

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:34.080
 this is all again, theory.

00:21:34.080 --> 00:21:39.740
 Like, I think what we would probably ultimately just, if one of these got big enough, we would

00:21:39.740 --> 00:21:44.560
 just, they would either become part of Saddleback, like a campus, or most likely we would just

00:21:44.560 --> 00:21:48.740
 help them incorporate and just, let's just incorporate you in and let's just go down that

00:21:48.740 --> 00:21:53.120
 route because that would allow, there's some technical things like getting insurance for

00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:57.280
 your property for, you know, for liability reasons, uh, handling money.

00:21:57.420 --> 00:22:02.860
 You need some of those government state things in order to be a functioning organization within

00:22:02.860 --> 00:22:03.680
 your County.

00:22:04.120 --> 00:22:10.360
 And instead of us being able to having to provide it, we would just, Hey, let's just go, you

00:22:10.360 --> 00:22:14.080
 know, contact the SBC and let's just get you through a process during court.

00:22:14.160 --> 00:22:14.400
 You know what I mean?

00:22:14.420 --> 00:22:18.480
 That's a lot easier, but I think it's still, we're not, we're still trying to get, I don't

00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.420
 think we, I think we don't have enough.

00:22:20.420 --> 00:22:25.080
 Like I'm trying to get, I want to get to 50 and then I really, that's what I'm trying

00:22:25.080 --> 00:22:25.940
 to like, okay, great.

00:22:25.940 --> 00:22:28.660
 Cause I think we don't have enough of a user group yet personally.

00:22:29.160 --> 00:22:32.940
 You know, and there's worse things than your church than Saddleback helping to plant other

00:22:32.940 --> 00:22:33.380
 churches.

00:22:33.380 --> 00:22:36.400
 Even if it was, we don't want to wear the Saddleback brand.

00:22:36.600 --> 00:22:38.380
 We want to kind of do our own thing.

00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:40.380
 It's like, Oh, Hey Saddleback, you just planted a church.

00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:41.280
 That's pretty awesome.

00:22:41.820 --> 00:22:44.460
 Kind of seeing, seeing how that, that would play out.

00:22:44.700 --> 00:22:50.780
 Yeah, which, which is definitely a, a, you know, I could totally see us getting, especially

00:22:50.780 --> 00:22:54.980
 knowing a little bit about Andy and how his vision and planting churches, like there's

00:22:54.980 --> 00:22:55.560
 definitely that.

00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.120
 But I think that's the, that's the key is like, what's the win of this?

00:22:59.120 --> 00:23:04.040
 And I, and I think, um, for me, I think it's to reach more people and, and lean into people,

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:08.480
 you know, people, people are moving far away and people are moving in places where there's

00:23:08.480 --> 00:23:09.820
 not churches.

00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:14.540
 And if we can provide some kind of tool or system for them to do a pop-up type of experience,

00:23:14.540 --> 00:23:17.600
 I think it's compelling, but it will be different.

00:23:17.660 --> 00:23:21.120
 It's not, you know, the, the illustration that I've talked about in the past, I think

00:23:21.120 --> 00:23:27.480
 on this pod is, um, the idea of like the franchise, not the franchise, but the corporate Starbucks

00:23:27.480 --> 00:23:27.940
 stores.

00:23:28.220 --> 00:23:32.540
 And then you have like the, like the Starbucks stores and hotels, and there's a two different

00:23:32.540 --> 00:23:37.200
 experiences, you know, one, I could get all the drinks and then the other, you know,

00:23:37.220 --> 00:23:38.240
 I have a limited selection.

00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:41.180
 And I think we're trying to think about these experiences because there is something about

00:23:41.180 --> 00:23:46.980
 being part of Saddleback church that there, there is some DNA, some culture, but when

00:23:46.980 --> 00:23:50.460
 you walk into someone's home, it's totally going to be a different, uh, field.

00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:55.920
 Now you can still get that flavor, but we're trying to, you know, um, we're trying to walk

00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:56.460
 through that.

00:23:56.460 --> 00:24:00.460
 So, uh, but I can't stress enough to everyone who's listening to this or watching this, that

00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:03.900
 it's us, this is me and us thinking out loud.

00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.240
 Like we are very much in the process.

00:24:06.240 --> 00:24:10.500
 This is like practically a, this is like a dissertation and we're still writing it.

00:24:10.620 --> 00:24:10.920
 You know what I mean?

00:24:11.400 --> 00:24:12.720
 Um, and it's, that's, that's so good.

00:24:12.760 --> 00:24:13.320
 And so true.

00:24:13.320 --> 00:24:18.580
 Like there, and that's honestly COVID, you and I had this conversation pre COVID.

00:24:19.460 --> 00:24:23.440
 Um, and it was, it was borderline heretical.

00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:25.700
 Uh, like people thought we were nuts.

00:24:25.760 --> 00:24:26.860
 People thought we were crazy.

00:24:26.860 --> 00:24:31.540
 You know, I, I was the first, uh, multi micro sites, like similar to what you're doing with

00:24:31.540 --> 00:24:32.220
 the extensions.

00:24:32.380 --> 00:24:37.520
 I mean, I was doing that in like 2016 and even within my own church, I was fighting

00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:43.720
 for it because like they, they, even my own church didn't understand, uh, the logistics

00:24:43.720 --> 00:24:44.420
 behind it.

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:45.820
 Now, thank you COVID.

00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:49.600
 We're seeing, you know, the, the model of church diversifying.

00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:50.960
 We're seeing a lot of different approaches.

00:24:50.960 --> 00:24:55.200
 We're realizing different ways to reach people look differently.

00:24:55.200 --> 00:24:59.240
 And, and even you're going to reach a different person in a, in a saddleback home extension

00:24:59.240 --> 00:25:01.320
 than you would through a saddleback campus.

00:25:01.320 --> 00:25:06.800
 And not just because it's located in different states, uh, but more because it's a different

00:25:06.800 --> 00:25:10.800
 type of person engaging and looking for discipleship in different ways.

00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:15.640
 I'm just curious how much, I don't actually know the answer to this in your discipleship

00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:16.720
 outside the weekend service.

00:25:16.720 --> 00:25:20.660
 Look for this context, I'm assuming discipleship happens outside of the weekend service.

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:27.480
 How much of that is unified, um, and put with extensions and online, or how much of it do

00:25:27.480 --> 00:25:31.460
 you give autonomy for the extensions to, to shape their discipleship?

00:25:31.760 --> 00:25:37.680
 Yeah, I would say it's pretty unified in the sense that they're using our class process,

00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:38.800
 um, and material.

00:25:39.120 --> 00:25:42.920
 So you're doing, I mean, I'm assuming 101, 201, you're, you're still holding the purpose

00:25:42.920 --> 00:25:43.940
 driven something or other.

00:25:44.180 --> 00:25:44.920
 And that's, yeah.

00:25:44.940 --> 00:25:50.400
 So they, they have the option to either direct people to attend our zoom classes, or they

00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:55.020
 have a package that they can host in their home or in their area.

00:25:55.260 --> 00:26:00.480
 So, so they, they have either, or, um, now all the follow-up and everything still goes

00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:01.480
 through our online process.

00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:07.320
 So if you take class, like in a home and, you know, um, you know, in St. Penisburg or

00:26:07.320 --> 00:26:11.160
 whatever, like you, it would, you would submit it all digitally and it would lean into our

00:26:11.160 --> 00:26:14.800
 online kind of process of how we verify everything.

00:26:15.280 --> 00:26:20.560
 Um, and then, yeah, and then they would use the group paradigm of having multiple groups

00:26:20.560 --> 00:26:21.480
 around their extensions.

00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:27.360
 And so, uh, I don't think there's, I think the, the inner workings of it, they are, they

00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:28.900
 would be a purpose driven extension.

00:26:28.900 --> 00:26:32.000
 So I think it wouldn't be, um, that wouldn't be different.

00:26:32.300 --> 00:26:36.900
 Um, they just might select different things as focuses based off of their age and stage

00:26:36.900 --> 00:26:37.740
 of their location.

00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:43.860
 And so, you know, for example, if you have a bunch of new people, you might select, um,

00:26:44.260 --> 00:26:46.200
 a small group study around purpose driven life.

00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:49.720
 Or if you're like a little bit more veteran, you might do something on the life of Isaiah

00:26:49.720 --> 00:26:50.140
 or something.

00:26:50.140 --> 00:26:51.740
 You might, you might pick different things.

00:26:51.740 --> 00:26:56.460
 So you might all go through the Daniel plan health study because that's what you guys want,

00:26:56.460 --> 00:26:58.820
 or you want to go through this parenting study.

00:26:58.820 --> 00:27:03.580
 So I think that is a variety, but the main elements are, um, aligned with us.

00:27:03.980 --> 00:27:08.060
 So the autonomy for you would be maybe some of the secondary studies that the Daniel, some

00:27:08.060 --> 00:27:12.760
 of that, that's where you give, give, you push the responsibility and the freedom down

00:27:12.760 --> 00:27:14.320
 to the location to choose.

00:27:14.680 --> 00:27:14.800
 Yeah.

00:27:14.900 --> 00:27:19.400
 So right now I think in all these extensions are very tied to us.

00:27:19.460 --> 00:27:23.180
 And I think as they grow, they will become more autonomous.

00:27:23.180 --> 00:27:29.300
 And then the idea is that they would be a, a purpose driven location that would be able

00:27:29.300 --> 00:27:30.960
 to really do what they want.

00:27:31.240 --> 00:27:33.180
 Uh, but they would be indirectly.

00:27:33.180 --> 00:27:38.760
 But at this stage, they are, they are very tied and they, they are doing all the things.

00:27:38.760 --> 00:27:44.260
 But hypothetically, if, if one got to 150 and they just incorporated, they would go through

00:27:44.260 --> 00:27:46.180
 a different, you know, it would be different.

00:27:46.180 --> 00:27:51.420
 They wouldn't be reporting to us like, uh, like they are now.

00:27:51.420 --> 00:27:55.900
 But, you know, uh, you know, I heard, I heard, uh, is it bill bright?

00:27:55.940 --> 00:27:56.280
 I'm forgetting.

00:27:56.380 --> 00:27:58.900
 He's the multi-site guy at North point.

00:27:58.980 --> 00:28:02.060
 I remember he said once a multi-site strategy, which was really brilliant.

00:28:02.060 --> 00:28:06.200
 And he said, you know, I treat our multi-site locations.

00:28:06.200 --> 00:28:07.440
 Like I treat my kids.

00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.580
 The older they get, the more autonomy they get.

00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:14.100
 And so if you're, and that also speaks to maturity.

00:28:14.100 --> 00:28:18.220
 So if you, if you're 10 years old and you're acting like a five-year-old, you're not going

00:28:18.220 --> 00:28:19.240
 to get the same autonomy.

00:28:20.280 --> 00:28:24.100
 But if you're a 20 year old and you got a ton of maturity and you're paying your bills and

00:28:24.100 --> 00:28:24.520
 you're working.

00:28:24.520 --> 00:28:27.020
 And so I think we're going to treat it that way.

00:28:27.120 --> 00:28:28.760
 Each one's going to be treated very uniquely.

00:28:29.160 --> 00:28:31.360
 Bill bright's like the founder of campus crusade.

00:28:31.440 --> 00:28:33.940
 So I'm actually gam, uh, Googling right now.

00:28:34.000 --> 00:28:35.080
 Like who's the person?

00:28:35.640 --> 00:28:38.800
 Um, anyway, bill bright or families of bill bright.

00:28:38.880 --> 00:28:39.580
 It's not bill bright.

00:28:39.580 --> 00:28:41.620
 Then I, gosh, I'm sorry.

00:28:41.820 --> 00:28:43.120
 This guy was so good.

00:28:43.340 --> 00:28:46.100
 He's like the number two at North point on multi-site.

00:28:46.220 --> 00:28:48.780
 And I'm like, I'm slaughtering this.

00:28:48.780 --> 00:28:53.080
 Cause I'm, I'm going to blame my, my, my red eye right now.

00:28:53.300 --> 00:28:54.700
 So I'm going to blame my red eye.

00:28:54.820 --> 00:28:58.200
 If you're, if you're watching on YouTube, uh, it's, it's, it's gorgeous.

00:28:58.320 --> 00:28:58.920
 It's awesome.

00:28:59.000 --> 00:28:59.580
 It's shining.

00:28:59.840 --> 00:29:01.820
 I'm searching my email right now.

00:29:01.860 --> 00:29:04.900
 We will find, uh, it's a great quote.

00:29:05.080 --> 00:29:09.120
 Uh, we, we treat our campuses, uh, like our children, the order, the older they get,

00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:10.180
 the more autonomy they get.

00:29:10.560 --> 00:29:13.160
 Uh, and then at some point, you know, 18 years down the road,

00:29:13.180 --> 00:29:14.100
 they get kicked out of the house.

00:29:14.280 --> 00:29:15.320
 Uh, no, they won't.

00:29:15.380 --> 00:29:19.920
 They brought North wide North point may what's interesting with North point is,

00:29:19.920 --> 00:29:24.520
 is that they have this, um, they've got the network, you know, and it's,

00:29:24.520 --> 00:29:27.780
 it's like the campuses, there's a lot more of that autonomy.

00:29:27.780 --> 00:29:31.440
 And then with the network, it's more like, Hey, here are some resources.

00:29:31.440 --> 00:29:33.000
 Do what you do what you want.

00:29:33.040 --> 00:29:36.340
 There's a lot more, more freedom and empowering with that.

00:29:36.340 --> 00:29:39.860
 I, you see that actually resonates more with me.

00:29:39.880 --> 00:29:42.900
 Uh, and, and, and maybe I'm burned and jaded just from,

00:29:43.020 --> 00:29:44.940
 years of, of multi-site.

00:29:45.680 --> 00:29:50.640
 Um, but I actually, you know, the idea of a, of a multi-church where it's an organization

00:29:50.640 --> 00:29:57.820
 that allows more contextualization, um, in, in those shapes and to reach different types

00:29:57.820 --> 00:30:00.680
 of people within different communities in different ways.

00:30:00.860 --> 00:30:05.480
 Like I'm, I'm much more, even from a discipleship perspective, I don't know.

00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:09.480
 I'm leaning more that way, just with some of the ideas and some of the things that I'm,

00:30:09.480 --> 00:30:14.560
 that I'm working through and seeing Lane, Lane Jones, Lane Jones, you, we were from Bill

00:30:14.560 --> 00:30:15.720
 Bright to Lane Jones.

00:30:15.720 --> 00:30:17.420
 I, I have no idea.

00:30:17.420 --> 00:30:18.380
 I'm sorry, Lane.

00:30:18.560 --> 00:30:20.580
 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just stupid.

00:30:20.900 --> 00:30:24.740
 So that's my, that's, that's a great, Bill Bright.

00:30:24.860 --> 00:30:26.040
 I have no idea.

00:30:26.540 --> 00:30:28.740
 Like I knew that was a Christian leader.

00:30:29.020 --> 00:30:31.280
 I was like, Bill Bright, Bill Bright sounds like his name.

00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:34.020
 Like anyways, that's so stupid, but he's amazing.

00:30:34.120 --> 00:30:39.620
 I mean, everybody, if you, Bill Bright has spoken at a bunch of stuff, but I, I got a chance

00:30:39.620 --> 00:30:44.940
 to spend like 30 minutes with him and he, like, I was just like, I didn't know anything about

00:30:44.940 --> 00:30:45.460
 multi-site.

00:30:45.460 --> 00:30:50.080
 I feel like, and I was like, oh my, it was like a, just a hose of information.

00:30:50.760 --> 00:30:54.100
 So is, is, are the extensions under online now?

00:30:54.260 --> 00:30:57.240
 I know that's been like an on and off kind of thing within Saddleback.

00:30:57.580 --> 00:30:58.740
 Yeah, they, they are.

00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:05.700
 Um, they report, so I currently right now report to our multi-site pastor and I'm on

00:31:05.700 --> 00:31:13.680
 his leadership team and kind of play a role of kind of helping the campuses with digital

00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:16.420
 in some aspects, but also overseeing the online community.

00:31:16.420 --> 00:31:19.020
 And then under that online community is our extensions.

00:31:19.020 --> 00:31:26.940
 And we very much treat our extensions, like the campus expression that I oversee.

00:31:26.940 --> 00:31:31.580
 We don't really treat our online community as a campus, so to say, even though, you know,

00:31:31.920 --> 00:31:37.040
 we did for a long time, you know, there is, but, uh, the idea is that our services that

00:31:37.040 --> 00:31:39.640
 I'm like a campus pastor over are our extensions.

00:31:39.640 --> 00:31:45.240
 And even at our extensions, we, we have a program that they print and on the cover of that program

00:31:45.240 --> 00:31:46.100
 is a photo of me.

00:31:46.100 --> 00:31:47.560
 And I'm, I have my information there.

00:31:47.560 --> 00:31:50.560
 So if they want to talk to their campus pastor, they can reach out to me.

00:31:50.560 --> 00:31:55.260
 So we, we, we very much, because we're not, we don't have staff physically presence present.

00:31:55.420 --> 00:32:00.240
 We make my presence there digitally so that at least they can, they can reach out.

00:32:00.340 --> 00:32:02.720
 So that's kind of how we're structured and how it works right now.

00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:06.900
 So like, are these, are these multi-site extensions?

00:32:07.060 --> 00:32:08.280
 Like what's the actual language?

00:32:09.280 --> 00:32:11.660
 Just extension campuses, extension locations?

00:32:11.820 --> 00:32:12.520
 There are extensions.

00:32:12.940 --> 00:32:15.140
 There would be saddleback church extensions.

00:32:15.560 --> 00:32:16.400
 And so, yeah.

00:32:16.600 --> 00:32:17.880
 How many do you have at this point?

00:32:18.080 --> 00:32:18.400
 14.

00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:22.360
 So when you say you're trying to get to 15 to get to 30, you're literally trying to get

00:32:22.360 --> 00:32:23.040
 to 15.

00:32:23.240 --> 00:32:23.620
 Oh yeah.

00:32:23.720 --> 00:32:25.340
 Learn lessons from that 15.

00:32:25.340 --> 00:32:30.340
 And then you want to reproduce that or figure out how to make the adjustments to get the next

00:32:30.340 --> 00:32:30.940
 30 launched.

00:32:31.100 --> 00:32:31.280
 Yep.

00:32:31.640 --> 00:32:31.880
 Yep.

00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:36.800
 We're literally just trying to, we're, we're literally in that, we're just in that phase.

00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:39.020
 And so of, we're trying to normalize it.

00:32:39.120 --> 00:32:44.620
 We're trying to, um, like we have a, we have a video story coming out in the next month

00:32:44.620 --> 00:32:48.940
 where we recorded a video of one of our extensions that meets in the Sacramento area.

00:32:49.620 --> 00:32:54.060
 And, um, we try to, we're trying to provide a model because really the first phase of this

00:32:54.060 --> 00:32:58.440
 was, I don't, I feel like people knew what it was, but they needed to see an example.

00:32:58.440 --> 00:33:02.540
 And so this, so this first launch, we got some, we captured a story.

00:33:02.600 --> 00:33:03.820
 We're going to tell that story.

00:33:04.120 --> 00:33:08.120
 We have a box kit that we finally built and we're going to be promoting that.

00:33:08.260 --> 00:33:11.520
 And so I think we learned because I didn't want to build a box at first because I didn't

00:33:11.520 --> 00:33:13.100
 know what would go into the box.

00:33:13.100 --> 00:33:16.560
 And so now I've talked to 14 extensions and now I know what they want.

00:33:16.920 --> 00:33:17.580
 And so.

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:18.240
 What do they want?

00:33:18.580 --> 00:33:19.600
 I want to know what they want.

00:33:19.840 --> 00:33:25.400
 Oh, uh, they, so essentially we're going to be sending in this box, 50 invite cards that

00:33:25.400 --> 00:33:29.800
 are printed on postcard type of card stock type of material they can hand out to their

00:33:29.800 --> 00:33:30.220
 community.

00:33:30.420 --> 00:33:33.060
 I actually do have to update some of them because they say Rick on it.

00:33:33.260 --> 00:33:39.500
 So I have to reprint, uh, uh, the daunting task of reprinting everything at our church.

00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:44.260
 We print out 25, like printed versions of our program that we literally designed this PDF

00:33:44.260 --> 00:33:45.200
 where you can fold it.

00:33:45.280 --> 00:33:48.120
 And then every week you print the notes out and you put the program in.

00:33:48.260 --> 00:33:49.320
 We're not printing that.

00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:50.880
 We're not sending restocking this.

00:33:50.980 --> 00:33:54.920
 This is just something we, I want to give them 25 versions to see what it could be like.

00:33:55.460 --> 00:34:00.380
 Um, we're sending them lanyards that we'll say, welcome to Saddleback and they can put

00:34:00.380 --> 00:34:01.880
 erasable name on.

00:34:01.980 --> 00:34:06.520
 It's like erasable marker lanyards that, so the idea is that I didn't want to send shirts.

00:34:06.600 --> 00:34:10.800
 Shirts are so, um, annoying to get sizes and stocking.

00:34:10.880 --> 00:34:13.900
 These lanyards are the way to kind of put this on and you feel like staff.

00:34:13.900 --> 00:34:18.700
 We're going to send, uh, 50, 50 or a hundred, uh, Saddleback pins.

00:34:19.380 --> 00:34:27.600
 Um, and then we have a, we have right now, this is something actually I got to think about

00:34:27.600 --> 00:34:28.340
 right now.

00:34:28.340 --> 00:34:32.140
 I was trying to figure out what's the best thing that they can give to first time attenders.

00:34:32.140 --> 00:34:37.480
 I ended up finding these purpose-driven life workbook, uh, booklets that were like a dollar

00:34:37.480 --> 00:34:38.000
 or a piece.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:40.200
 We actually have a Saddleback Bible that we have.

00:34:41.060 --> 00:34:45.720
 Um, and it's like a design Bible has a letter from Rick on the cover.

00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:48.800
 The problem is those Bibles are like 10 bucks a piece and they're heavy.

00:34:48.920 --> 00:34:51.220
 So I didn't really, I couldn't really mail these things.

00:34:51.220 --> 00:34:53.280
 And so these booklets were really nice.

00:34:53.280 --> 00:34:57.120
 And the funny thing is I didn't really have an understanding of the timing of this.

00:34:57.160 --> 00:35:01.960
 So I bought like a thousand of these booklets and now I'm like, I'm just shipping

00:35:01.960 --> 00:35:05.540
 these booklets, like I'm not keeping these booklets, but we got to figure out a first

00:35:05.540 --> 00:35:06.840
 time guest thing.

00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:09.040
 Um, so that that's the basic.

00:35:09.040 --> 00:35:13.260
 And it's really just to kind of, I think one of the things is the first phase of this.

00:35:13.260 --> 00:35:20.200
 I was very, I went away from having to mail a bunch of stuff because it just was too time

00:35:20.200 --> 00:35:21.460
 consuming and costly.

00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:23.900
 I wanted to just, just get them going.

00:35:24.020 --> 00:35:28.740
 But I did learn that when you get something that arrives on your doorstep, it does make

00:35:28.740 --> 00:35:30.120
 you feel valued and important.

00:35:30.340 --> 00:35:31.740
 We're also designing a box.

00:35:31.740 --> 00:35:33.760
 Like a, it will be a blue saddleback.

00:35:33.860 --> 00:35:35.260
 It will be a custom printed box.

00:35:35.580 --> 00:35:38.060
 I also want that because I want to hold it up on camera.

00:35:39.160 --> 00:35:40.180
 That was the big thing.

00:35:40.180 --> 00:35:44.860
 I didn't have anything to like, I want to build a, like, we want to mail you this box.

00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:48.960
 And so the idea is that you sign up for our, our extension training and then we'll mail

00:35:48.960 --> 00:35:49.600
 you the box.

00:35:50.160 --> 00:35:51.200
 And, um, yeah.

00:35:51.200 --> 00:35:56.240
 And so I'm very excited about this because, you know, the first 14 really just attended

00:35:56.240 --> 00:35:57.320
 a training and that's it.

00:35:57.380 --> 00:35:59.920
 They really didn't know what we're talking about, but we're going to show a video story

00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:01.660
 here this summer and then show the box.

00:36:02.380 --> 00:36:04.920
 And I'm very pumped.

00:36:05.040 --> 00:36:09.000
 I got to decide some new things in this box because with this change, uh, so I got to figure

00:36:09.000 --> 00:36:10.660
 out like, what do you give a new person?

00:36:10.760 --> 00:36:11.380
 But it's hard.

00:36:11.380 --> 00:36:16.240
 Like I was talking to our, our friends at Sandals Church, Jeff there who did some multi-site

00:36:16.240 --> 00:36:16.580
 stuff.

00:36:16.700 --> 00:36:22.940
 And I remember he did this thing where he sent, um, Uber eat delivery food for their first

00:36:22.940 --> 00:36:25.340
 gathering, which was a cool idea.

00:36:25.340 --> 00:36:29.620
 I also, I'm like, I don't, that sounds crazy to me financially, you know, when you got like

00:36:29.620 --> 00:36:30.500
 five maybe.

00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.460
 Um, and so people do different things, you know, like we have bought in some gear for a couple

00:36:35.460 --> 00:36:35.820
 of art.

00:36:35.920 --> 00:36:37.580
 We have one in the Bay area that's meeting right now.

00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:40.040
 I've bought in like a speaker for them because they needed a speaker.

00:36:40.320 --> 00:36:46.140
 So, uh, we, we do optionally mail them a Roku stick, um, if they need one, but I'm trying

00:36:46.140 --> 00:36:49.460
 to get away from, I think most people know how to stream the service.

00:36:49.660 --> 00:36:52.820
 It's just, when you go into a facility, it gets a little bit more complicated.

00:36:53.440 --> 00:36:54.800
 Um, cause you might need gear.

00:36:54.920 --> 00:36:56.440
 We do have a banner that we send.

00:36:56.560 --> 00:36:59.000
 If you meet in a venue, we'll mail you this banner.

00:36:59.000 --> 00:37:03.540
 That's like $150 banner that you could put out front, but you know, there's all sorts

00:37:03.540 --> 00:37:04.080
 of variables.

00:37:04.080 --> 00:37:09.320
 So most of them are in homes, but we have five of them that meet in venues and, you know,

00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:13.360
 they're all kind of in the range of like 60 to 25 in venues.

00:37:13.480 --> 00:37:17.700
 So it's still not super big, but you still want it to feel important.

00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:23.540
 So now that you're 15, 14, and you're trying to get to that, that next level, how are you

00:37:23.540 --> 00:37:26.680
 guys dealing with the, well, that's not Saddleback.

00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.480
 That's not meeting Saddleback standards.

00:37:29.180 --> 00:37:35.460
 Um, do you, do you feel like the, this, this switch of leadership, is that going to maybe

00:37:35.460 --> 00:37:37.980
 strengthen the bonds or is that going to break the bonds?

00:37:38.020 --> 00:37:39.020
 Is it too soon to tell?

00:37:39.080 --> 00:37:43.980
 Like the, the standards that Saddleback has is going to be huge and you're going to be

00:37:43.980 --> 00:37:45.360
 feeling that tension quite a bit.

00:37:45.440 --> 00:37:46.700
 What, what, what are you, what's your gut?

00:37:46.700 --> 00:37:52.620
 Yeah, I, I definitely think there have been a lot of changes over the last five years on

00:37:52.620 --> 00:37:55.440
 this that have loosened some of this stuff for us.

00:37:55.440 --> 00:38:01.920
 I think there's a lot more openness, um, from our church just to experiment.

00:38:01.920 --> 00:38:08.860
 And so, um, there were things said years ago that aren't being said now, and I've been

00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:12.160
 given way more freedom to experiment.

00:38:12.160 --> 00:38:15.220
 And so, um, I think definitely there'll be more freedom.

00:38:15.220 --> 00:38:21.180
 And I think, you know, I, I think one of the big things is just that needs to be beefed up

00:38:21.180 --> 00:38:28.900
 is the coaching and more training and, um, and you know, I, that's the area where we need

00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:30.180
 to systematize all that.

00:38:30.180 --> 00:38:33.540
 Cause you can go read purpose driven church, but what does that mean when you're like a

00:38:33.540 --> 00:38:38.500
 lay leader, we got to contextualize the training a little bit more, but no, I think the standards

00:38:38.500 --> 00:38:41.640
 are going to be heightened in some areas, but very loosened.

00:38:41.720 --> 00:38:47.120
 But I think we're in a season of a lot more freedom, you know, especially coming out of

00:38:47.120 --> 00:38:48.040
 COVID for sure.

00:38:48.040 --> 00:38:52.280
 And just knowing, um, Hey, let's try different things.

00:38:52.280 --> 00:38:57.880
 And so I, I, I feel, I feel like we have a blank check right now, you know, it won't last

00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:00.320
 forever, but that's why I got to get to a number.

00:39:00.700 --> 00:39:05.420
 I feel like I got to get to a number and then I want to use, you know, we're trying to use

00:39:05.420 --> 00:39:10.340
 this, this group to say, okay, this is what we need to hire because that's actually the

00:39:10.340 --> 00:39:14.320
 bigger thing is right now, you know, it's functioning under our team and we're managing

00:39:14.320 --> 00:39:16.820
 it ourselves along with other things we're doing.

00:39:16.820 --> 00:39:22.400
 So I think that's the harder thing that we're trying to prioritize this along with our normal

00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:26.260
 weekend responsibilities, our groups, our events, our whole online community stuff.

00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:30.320
 So is, do you think training is, is that the biggest challenge right now?

00:39:30.540 --> 00:39:35.960
 Um, trying to develop the shepherd, develop the, uh, the pastoral heart?

00:39:36.020 --> 00:39:38.640
 Like what's, what's the biggest obstacle you're facing with these?

00:39:38.640 --> 00:39:43.460
 I think technically money is the big, biggest obstacle because we need, we need to figure

00:39:43.460 --> 00:39:45.980
 out how to provide something that self interesting.

00:39:46.180 --> 00:39:52.540
 Well, example, like I was just talking to one of my leaders about this and, um, they had collected

00:39:52.540 --> 00:39:56.520
 some money and then they melded in to one of our locations.

00:39:56.520 --> 00:40:04.000
 And, you know, I was talking to this leader and they were like, essentially like the art,

00:40:04.200 --> 00:40:09.020
 we didn't want to take the money because if we took it, um, we, we didn't have a way to

00:40:09.020 --> 00:40:10.020
 get it back to them.

00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:12.300
 Like we couldn't just write a check and give it back to them.

00:40:12.340 --> 00:40:16.520
 We didn't have a real easy way to like report this back to the IRS in a very seamless way.

00:40:16.540 --> 00:40:22.020
 And because we don't have staff present, it's really hard to validate how it's being collecting

00:40:22.020 --> 00:40:24.560
 and who is it being collecting and making sure it was all collected.

00:40:24.780 --> 00:40:31.660
 And so by having all volunteers, it's, if we can't really be a pass through agency.

00:40:31.660 --> 00:40:39.600
 And so I think like this leader was like, well, I, so they're sending me back the money

00:40:39.600 --> 00:40:43.920
 and she, like, they're just going to have a thousand dollars and now it's on them.

00:40:43.920 --> 00:40:46.580
 And so I'm having to tell them, okay, you can't collect any more money.

00:40:46.660 --> 00:40:48.060
 No money has to go through your bank.

00:40:48.480 --> 00:40:54.540
 And, and what I'm trying to coach them on, you know, kind of, you know, building it in

00:40:54.540 --> 00:40:59.020
 the sky is like, okay, just have leaders take responsibility of different needs.

00:41:00.120 --> 00:41:03.720
 And I wouldn't, cause if you store money in your bank, I don't know.

00:41:03.800 --> 00:41:05.100
 And they were actually out of the country.

00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:06.760
 I go, I don't know how your taxes work.

00:41:07.260 --> 00:41:10.580
 And so I don't want you to get deemed for this.

00:41:10.580 --> 00:41:13.340
 Like, cause if this money comes in, it's going to be seen as income.

00:41:14.060 --> 00:41:18.680
 And so just, we gotta be very, so I think there's a lot of structural things, especially

00:41:18.680 --> 00:41:21.700
 because we have like a one budget system at our church.

00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:28.580
 And I think some of that stuff is very like, and then obviously if you send money in, you

00:41:28.580 --> 00:41:32.680
 get the write-off, but if they don't have, so I think there's some of that stuff that

00:41:32.680 --> 00:41:37.360
 I actually like, as much as I know it's like, there's ways to solve it.

00:41:37.460 --> 00:41:38.440
 It's, it's very messy.

00:41:38.700 --> 00:41:39.840
 It's just very messy.

00:41:40.240 --> 00:41:45.200
 And so I, I, this, this may be a completely separate conversation, but I wonder if like

00:41:45.200 --> 00:41:50.680
 DAOs and some of the things that are coming up with, with blockchain and crypto, if that's

00:41:50.680 --> 00:41:52.440
 not, that's not solving that.

00:41:52.540 --> 00:41:56.500
 I totally don't want to like get lost in that conversation right now, but that's really

00:41:56.500 --> 00:41:56.960
 intriguing.

00:41:57.300 --> 00:41:57.400
 Yeah.

00:41:57.420 --> 00:42:01.420
 Because like, I remember one of our early, like the first extension that I was ever part

00:42:01.420 --> 00:42:03.900
 of, this was probably seven years ago.

00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:04.800
 It was funny.

00:42:04.820 --> 00:42:10.460
 Like we went out, we heard that this group was meeting and renting this, uh, this facility

00:42:10.460 --> 00:42:12.640
 and I had been in contact with them.

00:42:13.100 --> 00:42:17.300
 And so I went out there and, and I was like, we, we went to it.

00:42:17.300 --> 00:42:22.880
 They had like 35 people showing up to this VFW and somebody would sing and they would play.

00:42:22.960 --> 00:42:24.720
 It wasn't, they were just doing it.

00:42:24.720 --> 00:42:28.600
 And I remember I went out there with my boss at the time and we went to lunch afterwards.

00:42:28.600 --> 00:42:30.380
 She's like, so like, how is this working?

00:42:30.380 --> 00:42:34.880
 And they're like, well, what happens is it's like 200 bucks or a hundred, a hundred bucks

00:42:34.880 --> 00:42:37.040
 or something a month, a week to rent it.

00:42:37.300 --> 00:42:39.920
 And a different small group owns it every month.

00:42:40.300 --> 00:42:46.900
 I mean, every week and they rotate and they were just choosing not to, if they were tithing

00:42:46.900 --> 00:42:51.940
 500 bucks a month, that family would just tithe 400 bucks and you use that a hundred there.

00:42:52.460 --> 00:42:54.620
 And so people are naturally doing that.

00:42:54.620 --> 00:42:59.480
 And so, but it's really weird, you know, to tell a member of our church to say, you know,

00:42:59.540 --> 00:43:02.360
 your first fruits don't go to Saddleback, go to your needs.

00:43:02.480 --> 00:43:02.900
 You know what I mean?

00:43:03.220 --> 00:43:07.240
 And so some of that stuff is just really gray, but I think if you had a fund like that

00:43:07.240 --> 00:43:12.460
 where you didn't have to worry about geographical deals and people could access it, I think

00:43:12.460 --> 00:43:19.840
 some of that, the Dow model is, again, this is why I think we are structurally having to

00:43:19.840 --> 00:43:23.460
 pivot and think different than how we're, we're wired.

00:43:23.700 --> 00:43:25.360
 And I think it's a lot easier to build.

00:43:25.600 --> 00:43:29.520
 I think it was a lot easier for Apple to be Apple than for IBM to be Apple.

00:43:29.840 --> 00:43:30.300
 You know what I mean?

00:43:30.520 --> 00:43:37.240
 I just, you know, the same way, you know, like a Ralph's to become Amazon or whatever.

00:43:37.240 --> 00:43:41.000
 I just, I think there's some structural things and I think you lean into your strengths.

00:43:41.540 --> 00:43:47.860
 And so I, I think, I think we could figure it out and we are, but I think, you know, a

00:43:47.860 --> 00:43:51.040
 guy coming out of, or a guy or a girl coming out of seminary and just plants a church.

00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:54.980
 Like, I think that they will just be able to solve this that, you know, just set it up

00:43:54.980 --> 00:43:55.340
 this way.

00:43:55.340 --> 00:44:00.280
 I think of like, like the story of Binance, like Binance, you know, they got shut down

00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:01.100
 in China or whatever.

00:44:01.720 --> 00:44:07.220
 And, you know, they're the, one of the leading, uh, uh, crypto exchanges and, and one of the

00:44:07.220 --> 00:44:07.760
 early ones.

00:44:07.900 --> 00:44:13.160
 And he got, they're pretty much trying to shut him down and they were interviewing the CEO

00:44:13.160 --> 00:44:13.620
 of Binance.

00:44:13.620 --> 00:44:16.120
 And he was like, yeah, we've always been decentralized.

00:44:16.440 --> 00:44:18.920
 Even our offices, we don't have a central headquarters.

00:44:19.580 --> 00:44:25.280
 And so when they got shut down, it, it wasn't hard because everybody, everybody worked remote.

00:44:26.340 --> 00:44:30.260
 And so you couldn't like, even though it hurt him on this area, it didn't hurt.

00:44:30.580 --> 00:44:33.220
 Like the people, it wasn't like shutting down an office.

00:44:33.220 --> 00:44:37.880
 Like when, when Saddleback Church during COVID, our offices, our offices shut down.

00:44:37.880 --> 00:44:40.940
 It was a little bit of like, a lot of people were like, oh, what do I do?

00:44:41.120 --> 00:44:41.500
 You know what I mean?

00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:45.020
 Didn't hurt me because I had already worked from home, but I think you're going to have people

00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:47.060
 I've, we've always been this way.

00:44:47.140 --> 00:44:50.800
 So that's why I think that you're going to, big churches will figure it out and are figuring

00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:53.600
 out, but I think you're going to have a lot of innovation at a different level.

00:44:54.120 --> 00:44:57.660
 And, and what I think you need to get there are churches that are willing, as kids back

00:44:57.660 --> 00:44:59.140
 to the control, you just got to let go.

00:44:59.800 --> 00:45:03.400
 Like you're not going to be able to adapt if you're holding to the model.

00:45:03.460 --> 00:45:05.500
 That's, that's not adjusting.

00:45:05.500 --> 00:45:10.200
 If, if you're holding to the model tighter than you are the mission, you're really good.

00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:10.440
 Yes.

00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:11.420
 That's a good way of saying it.

00:45:11.660 --> 00:45:13.420
 Um, where, where you could be.

00:45:13.420 --> 00:45:17.680
 And so like, that's, that's really is, is, is my heart just even as, as we're resonating

00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.140
 on this.

00:45:18.260 --> 00:45:20.980
 Hey, um, one more question and, and we, we got it.

00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:21.700
 We got to land the plane.

00:45:22.040 --> 00:45:30.300
 How does, how does Saddleback, your pastor has been around a very long time, uh, literally

00:45:30.300 --> 00:45:31.380
 just now retiring.

00:45:31.540 --> 00:45:37.800
 You're a giga church, um, like trying to get a ship to move.

00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.540
 I would imagine is very difficult yet.

00:45:40.540 --> 00:45:46.540
 You guys and gals, your team has been able to adjust very well, or at least the outside

00:45:46.540 --> 00:45:48.580
 perception is that it's very well.

00:45:48.580 --> 00:45:52.780
 I'm not looking for some, something scandalous here, but like, how do you do it?

00:45:52.780 --> 00:45:58.440
 What is it culturally within your, your, your leadership, your team that allows for these

00:45:58.440 --> 00:46:03.420
 adjustments that allows you to be on, what are you version five or six at this point in

00:46:03.420 --> 00:46:04.100
 the micro?

00:46:04.240 --> 00:46:07.280
 Like you're constantly adjusting and tweaking things.

00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:09.040
 It's what I love about you and Saddleback.

00:46:09.220 --> 00:46:11.460
 How do you get that trust?

00:46:11.760 --> 00:46:14.700
 Uh, well, I, I, I mean, I, obviously it's, it's top down.

00:46:14.780 --> 00:46:15.440
 I mean, for sure.

00:46:15.540 --> 00:46:20.940
 I think Rick and the team is there are fast fluid and flexible is one of our mantras that

00:46:20.940 --> 00:46:21.900
 we talk about.

00:46:21.900 --> 00:46:28.520
 And, you know, he talks a lot about, and he teaches us, you know, uh, if you're going to

00:46:28.520 --> 00:46:31.120
 fail, fail fast and fail cheaply too.

00:46:31.300 --> 00:46:35.460
 And so let's, let's try out a lot of different things.

00:46:35.460 --> 00:46:41.800
 And I think, you know, why we're doing it and even what we're doing, it is, it's not

00:46:41.800 --> 00:46:42.480
 really changing.

00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:43.400
 It's just the how.

00:46:43.740 --> 00:46:47.020
 And so I think there, um, yeah.

00:46:47.120 --> 00:46:52.340
 And I, I, I just believe that that's how we are, you know, cause we, we've done all,

00:46:52.460 --> 00:46:57.560
 we've done, we, you know, they started the church in a phase where church was very different.

00:46:57.560 --> 00:46:59.980
 And then there were many changes throughout that.

00:46:59.980 --> 00:47:07.220
 Like one of the biggest changes for our church history was leaning in to, uh, canceling midweek

00:47:07.220 --> 00:47:09.020
 and, and moving to small group strategy.

00:47:09.020 --> 00:47:10.240
 That was a huge growth factor.

00:47:10.240 --> 00:47:14.600
 And that was something they did like 15 years or 20 years into our church's history.

00:47:15.100 --> 00:47:17.460
 And that was a huge, like huge change.

00:47:17.660 --> 00:47:21.280
 Another one, multi-site, a huge change, you know?

00:47:21.280 --> 00:47:26.980
 And, um, and so I think we, our church has benefited from big changes and understanding we need,

00:47:27.380 --> 00:47:32.040
 you know, I think of it, it's kind of like practically now it's like TikTok where tech,

00:47:32.160 --> 00:47:36.360
 one of TikTok's greatest strengths is like, they're doing hundreds of thousands of micro

00:47:36.360 --> 00:47:37.580
 tests every second.

00:47:38.680 --> 00:47:42.960
 And, you know, you don't see stuff on TikTok based off of who you follow.

00:47:43.060 --> 00:47:46.840
 You see stuff based off what's the most popular thing at that moment.

00:47:47.220 --> 00:47:53.980
 And, and this is why it could, it's a, it's a hypercharged algorithm versus Instagram and Facebook.

00:47:54.400 --> 00:47:57.100
 And so, but you need those tests.

00:47:57.500 --> 00:48:01.560
 And so, and I think our church allows us to do a lot of testing.

00:48:01.560 --> 00:48:06.500
 And I would tell anybody who's starting off, you know, figure out your job description,

00:48:07.320 --> 00:48:12.060
 prove you can deliver on your job description and then experiment on the side.

00:48:12.180 --> 00:48:18.500
 And I think, uh, I've, I've benefited from a lot of great bosses and coaches that were just

00:48:18.500 --> 00:48:19.860
 like, Hey, do this stuff.

00:48:19.940 --> 00:48:24.540
 And then when I, when I figured out how to do that stuff, then it was a lot of experimenting.

00:48:24.980 --> 00:48:27.180
 Also, we're very, we're just a very honest church.

00:48:27.180 --> 00:48:29.200
 Like this is, this is where we're at.

00:48:29.320 --> 00:48:29.720
 You know what I mean?

00:48:29.720 --> 00:48:36.220
 We got 14 and I don't think I've, I feel like for our church microsites is not necessarily

00:48:36.220 --> 00:48:37.100
 the answer.

00:48:37.240 --> 00:48:40.120
 I think it's a answer among a lot of other strategies.

00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:43.560
 Um, I still believe in the mic, the multi-site strategy.

00:48:43.880 --> 00:48:47.260
 And so I, I, I just think that there's some other opportunity here.

00:48:47.640 --> 00:48:51.160
 Um, and so, but yeah, I, I think it comes from top down for sure.

00:48:51.160 --> 00:48:53.280
 And just how the, our church is wired.

00:48:53.400 --> 00:48:54.340
 We're a teaching church.

00:48:54.740 --> 00:48:59.900
 And so I think because of that, I think that kind of, you know, kind of bleeds off onto

00:48:59.900 --> 00:49:00.700
 everybody for sure.

00:49:01.020 --> 00:49:01.300
 Very cool.

00:49:01.380 --> 00:49:03.260
 Well, Hey, this has been a, this has been a great conversation.

00:49:03.380 --> 00:49:05.060
 I love, love hanging out with Jay Cran.

00:49:05.140 --> 00:49:09.300
 That's been, been a minute, uh, since we've gotten together for a podcast, but, but definitely

00:49:09.300 --> 00:49:10.740
 a good one.

00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.280
 And Hey, just as, as we're landing the plane here, Jay, um, any closing thoughts?

00:49:15.280 --> 00:49:21.020
 Oh man, I would love to hear from anybody, um, who's listening this, that if you're doing

00:49:21.020 --> 00:49:26.640
 any type of microsite type of thing, and we haven't talked, um, please message me on Instagram

00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:27.180
 or whatever.

00:49:27.680 --> 00:49:32.240
 Um, we're in a learning mode and I've, I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of different

00:49:32.240 --> 00:49:36.780
 people, but if you're doing something, especially if you have more than 15 microsites, please

00:49:36.780 --> 00:49:37.260
 message me.

00:49:37.300 --> 00:49:39.900
 I would love to set up a conversation and just pick your brain.

00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:41.800
 So who has more than 15?

00:49:41.940 --> 00:49:42.660
 I have no idea.

00:49:42.660 --> 00:49:47.940
 I mean, Tyler, Tyler, you, um, 15 is a big number.

00:49:48.060 --> 00:49:53.540
 I don't know that at least at this point, I mean, during COVID, I, there were a lot that

00:49:53.540 --> 00:49:55.080
 were 15 or more.

00:49:55.440 --> 00:49:58.140
 I'm not like DJ Chong who can kind of memorize all this stuff.

00:49:58.200 --> 00:50:00.460
 Like he has like the list of all the people who do all that.

00:50:00.540 --> 00:50:01.000
 I don't know.

00:50:01.120 --> 00:50:05.120
 I have, I'm so terrible at like, yeah, all that.

00:50:05.300 --> 00:50:10.760
 So I, I think 15 is, is a, is, uh, let me say this while you're messaging him message

00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:16.560
 me because I, I mean, I cannot think of that many people that are doing 15, uh, micro right

00:50:16.560 --> 00:50:16.940
 now.

00:50:17.740 --> 00:50:23.860
 Um, anyway, that's a, that's a great, now, I mean, micro church, completely separate conversation,

00:50:23.860 --> 00:50:25.880
 but an established church doing a micro site.

00:50:26.000 --> 00:50:26.320
 Yeah.

00:50:26.340 --> 00:50:27.460
 That's a great, Hey, you know what?

00:50:27.480 --> 00:50:31.460
 One more question just while, and this is going to be completely off topic, Los Angeles

00:50:31.460 --> 00:50:33.040
 Lakers playoffs, 2023.

00:50:33.320 --> 00:50:33.740
 Yes or no?

00:50:33.980 --> 00:50:34.340
 Yes.

00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.240
 I'm going to hold you to it.

00:50:35.360 --> 00:50:35.680
 Yes.

00:50:35.740 --> 00:50:37.020
 We, we got a new coach.

00:50:37.180 --> 00:50:38.080
 You're going to blame the coach.

00:50:38.080 --> 00:50:41.920
 I'm going to blame all sorts of things, but I'm going to, I'm going to blame.

00:50:42.380 --> 00:50:43.440
 We were terrible.

00:50:43.800 --> 00:50:45.140
 LeBron James was amazing.

00:50:45.340 --> 00:50:49.160
 Our supporting cast, blah, you know, Anthony Davis was injured.

00:50:49.460 --> 00:50:50.900
 We were all over the place.

00:50:51.180 --> 00:50:55.000
 We got a new, we're going to, we got a new coach going to bring in a new culture, a new

00:50:55.000 --> 00:50:55.340
 DNA.

00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:57.040
 Um, and I'm excited.

00:50:57.160 --> 00:51:01.540
 So we're not going to spoil another year of LeBron James, but, um, but I'm an optimist,

00:51:01.620 --> 00:51:03.380
 you know, until I'm a negative.

00:51:03.560 --> 00:51:05.760
 So, so, but I'm hopeful.

00:51:05.760 --> 00:51:11.640
 So for today, Jay Cranda, Laker, apologist slash optimist, uh, well, well done.

00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:15.300
 And who needs to see an ophthalmologist evidently with his eye?

00:51:15.680 --> 00:51:16.440
 Is that, is that the word?

00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:17.760
 Is that the eye doctor ophthalmologist?

00:51:17.940 --> 00:51:18.140
 Yes.

00:51:18.160 --> 00:51:19.180
 I think you nailed it, man.

00:51:19.280 --> 00:51:19.980
 I think you nailed it.

00:51:20.340 --> 00:51:20.700
 Yes.

00:51:21.780 --> 00:51:23.740
 It'll never get better than that right there.

00:51:23.860 --> 00:51:28.020
 So I'm officially retiring the church digital podcast because that was like, boom, boom,

00:51:28.060 --> 00:51:28.220
 boom.

00:51:28.260 --> 00:51:28.720
 That's beautiful.

00:51:29.020 --> 00:51:32.400
 And I've got nothing left to say except for the podcast that I've already recorded for next

00:51:32.400 --> 00:51:33.380
 week, which is awesome.

00:51:33.380 --> 00:51:35.740
 So, Hey, but, but we're going to land the plane.

00:51:35.880 --> 00:51:37.360
 Jay, thanks for hanging out with us today.

00:51:37.740 --> 00:51:41.900
 Uh, for Jay, this is, uh, Jeff, uh, with the church, digital digital church network and

00:51:41.900 --> 00:51:42.800
 a whole bunch of other fun stuff.

00:51:43.140 --> 00:51:45.460
 Thanks for jumping on the pod here and we'll see you next time on the show.

00:51:45.860 --> 00:51:46.460
 You all have a good day.