WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.620 I happened to be on staff with a church in Brunswick, Georgia, where I live. And I worked 00:00:06.620 --> 00:00:12.520 on that staff in a variety of capacities, but I was the multi-campus director for a while. 00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:18.900 And in that role, I kept telling the leadership, I think we need to start an online campus. I think 00:00:18.900 --> 00:00:25.780 we need to start an online campus. And nobody was biting. And then the pandemic. And then all of a 00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:30.540 sudden, things were like, oh, well, maybe this is something that we need to do. 00:00:30.900 --> 00:00:35.580 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological 00:00:35.580 --> 00:00:41.660 innovations within the church. But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:42.500 --> 00:00:47.380 Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:48.160 --> 00:00:53.520 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:58.920 all this? Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, 00:00:59.680 --> 00:01:04.600 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:01:05.220 --> 00:01:11.200 digitally and physically. Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on 00:01:11.200 --> 00:01:17.580 disciple making that will revolutionize your church. And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:17.800 --> 00:01:23.380 All right. Hey, welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. This is episode 228. We're somewhere 00:01:23.380 --> 00:01:27.440 in the summer. It's been a fascinating summer. You know, one of the things that I've loved that we've 00:01:27.440 --> 00:01:35.320 done here with the podcast within the past couple weeks is we started diving into what the digital 00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:42.060 church, what church online looks like globally and some of the contextualizations of what's happening 00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:47.520 there. Like, we had the Ezekiel Fattori just last week, or a couple weeks ago, I guess at this point, 00:01:47.520 --> 00:01:53.120 we were talking about the Hispanic church and how a small, relatively 100-person church in Miami is 00:01:53.120 --> 00:01:59.400 having international reach, literally discipling people in physical space on another continent down 00:01:59.400 --> 00:02:06.020 in Latin and South America. We talked about an African-American church and what doing a ministry 00:02:06.020 --> 00:02:10.380 within African-American culture, what that looks like. And Elle Michelle was solid in that 00:02:10.380 --> 00:02:16.040 conversation, maybe about a month ago at this point. And so I'm really excited about the conversation 00:02:16.040 --> 00:02:21.720 that we're having today. We're bringing in Anne Bosarge into the conversation. Anne, how are you doing? 00:02:21.980 --> 00:02:23.740 I'm doing well, doing well. 00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:31.340 So Anne's got, you know, she's got a little like time-lapse going on. She just got back from a trip 00:02:31.340 --> 00:02:38.240 from Africa. And so we're looking forward to that conversation and how that ties in. But Anne, 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:45.340 Anne, you had an interesting start into digital ministry and digital church. Why don't you just 00:02:45.340 --> 00:02:52.180 share a little bit about how you got started into the chapel online? 00:02:52.180 --> 00:03:01.020 Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to. So I have been listening to God for quite some time and hearing 00:03:01.020 --> 00:03:08.520 him talk to me and tell me about this idea of digital church and what that would look like. 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:16.080 And I happened to be on staff with a church in Brunswick, Georgia, where I live. And I worked on 00:03:16.080 --> 00:03:23.460 that staff in a variety of capacities, but I was the multi-campus director for a while. And in that role, 00:03:23.620 --> 00:03:28.840 I kept telling the leadership, I think we need to start an online campus. I think we need to start 00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:35.400 an online campus. And nobody was biting. And then the pandemic. And then all of a sudden, 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:42.640 things were like, oh, well, maybe this is something that we need to do. And the way that all of this 00:03:42.640 --> 00:03:49.400 started was actually with a women's ministry that I was leading at the time. The women's ministry was an 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:55.900 in-person ministry called Becoming More. And we had about 30 women from our church that had started 00:03:55.900 --> 00:04:04.300 coming in February of 2020. And we were about six weeks into a nine-week small group and the world 00:04:04.300 --> 00:04:10.020 shut down. And the women were like, we only have a couple of more weeks. We need to put this on 00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:18.940 Facebook. We need to continue to meet together. And so we went on Facebook and we started our Becoming 00:04:18.940 --> 00:04:29.700 More Facebook group, which just grew and spread during the pandemic and grew to hundreds of women very 00:04:29.700 --> 00:04:37.860 quickly. And we started doing daily discipleship for these women. And it grew and grew into actually 00:04:37.860 --> 00:04:44.820 curriculum that we started to produce and facilitate small groups that were in-person and online and all of 00:04:44.820 --> 00:04:53.860 this. And so about after, after about a year of becoming more just growing and finding its own 00:04:53.860 --> 00:05:02.640 success and, um, and just place in the digital world as in terms of discipleship, the leadership at our 00:05:02.640 --> 00:05:09.820 church finally said, okay, and let's do a digital campus. Um, and I had been trying to convince them 00:05:09.820 --> 00:05:16.780 for years and finally, reluctantly, they said, okay, let's give it a shot. And as we got started, 00:05:16.780 --> 00:05:24.200 we began planning. I'm a big planner. And so I like to have all the charts and all the details planned 00:05:24.200 --> 00:05:31.300 out. I like to work ahead. And so we began kind of planning out a funnel, a funnel, an engagement funnel 00:05:31.300 --> 00:05:36.180 to say, here's how people would start and connect with us. And then we'd move them down into deeper 00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:44.700 level discipleship. And our target audience was at the beginning, uh, kind of the nuns and duns people 00:05:44.700 --> 00:05:51.280 that were saying that they were far from Christ or that they were kind of done with church. Those are 00:05:51.280 --> 00:05:56.420 kind of the things that we were the people that we were looking to engage with what we were doing. 00:05:56.420 --> 00:06:02.660 And we thought we were going to engage them using some different strategies that we had for TikTok 00:06:02.660 --> 00:06:12.520 and YouTube. And so we began and we began, uh, you know, implementing the plan. And I would say 00:06:12.520 --> 00:06:19.900 probably two months into beginning to implement this plan, we began to see that the Holy Spirit had a 00:06:19.900 --> 00:06:30.780 different plan. And so we began to adjust to God's plan instead of asking Him to adjust to ours. And we began 00:06:30.780 --> 00:06:39.940 seeing international people engage with what we were doing. And where we discovered that they were jumping in 00:06:39.940 --> 00:06:55.620 on TikTok, TikTok and YouTube, but they were jumping right into the deep end and joining our Facebook group 00:06:55.620 --> 00:07:03.860 and really getting involved with asking for prayer and praying for each other and really beginning some good 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:12.180 conversations. Um, and it wasn't, it was not long before we were counting people from about 50 different 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:22.580 countries and thousands of people that, yeah, that were just engaging in a variety of ways. And so we 00:07:22.580 --> 00:07:28.900 quickly learned that our target audience was not going to be people in the U.S. that were done with 00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:36.580 church or who had no religious affiliation. But we started to see a bit of a pattern in the people that 00:07:36.580 --> 00:07:44.900 were engaging with us. Um, they were people that seemed to be hungry for more, um, that seemed to be 00:07:44.900 --> 00:07:54.100 dissatisfied with the concept of like a once a week church kind of thing, um, that they wanted to, to go 00:07:54.100 --> 00:08:04.660 deeper and they wanted to share their faith. And some of them were in very hard, difficult situations and, 00:08:04.660 --> 00:08:14.180 and felt kind of unseen in their current context. Um, and some of them were done. They had, you know, 00:08:14.180 --> 00:08:20.820 tried church and a lot of, a lot of the people that we were engaging with were actually still in 00:08:20.820 --> 00:08:26.340 lockdown when we in the United States were not, they were still locked down and couldn't go back to 00:08:26.340 --> 00:08:32.820 church and things like that. So we did engage with people in that manner. Um, but they, they just seem 00:08:32.820 --> 00:08:40.180 to all have this deeper longing to be seen, to be known and to know that they were loved. Those were 00:08:40.180 --> 00:08:48.100 really the three things that, um, that God made very clear to me that he wanted these people to know, 00:08:48.100 --> 00:08:54.500 um, and tell them they are seen, that they are known and that they are loved. And so that just 00:08:54.500 --> 00:09:03.380 continued to be the thing that I, um, that I began conversations with when people were telling me about 00:09:03.380 --> 00:09:08.980 their difficult situations and all that they were going through during this time. Um, you are seen, 00:09:08.980 --> 00:09:14.820 you are known, you are loved. And even to this day, those are the three things that I continue to tell 00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:21.620 people because those were early on the three things that God said, I want to use this ministry to help 00:09:21.620 --> 00:09:29.700 people know they are seen and known and loved. So now we have in Becoming More, we have, I think, about, 00:09:31.300 --> 00:09:38.100 1.4 thousand women from around the globe and becoming more in our Facebook group. And we have, 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:43.940 I think today I looked and we're at 2.8 thousand in the Chapel Online's Facebook group. 00:09:43.940 --> 00:09:54.660 Um, yeah. And about six months into it, I have a friendship with a girl from Zimbabwe, a lady from 00:09:54.660 --> 00:10:02.260 Zimbabwe that was one of our first international people that joined the Chapel Online. And we began just 00:10:02.260 --> 00:10:09.300 a daily conversation back and forth. And she and I have been in conversation just about every single day for the 00:10:09.300 --> 00:10:16.820 last year and a half. And early on in our relationship, she said, "Anne, we need to go to WhatsApp." And I was 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:20.180 like, "Martha, I don't know how to use WhatsApp." And she said, "Well, I do." 00:10:21.620 --> 00:10:29.220 And so we now even have a WhatsApp ministry where we have another hundred people in a prayer group that 00:10:29.220 --> 00:10:36.100 are constantly praying for one another and encouraging one another. Really, because of all the time 00:10:36.100 --> 00:10:41.860 differences, 24 hours a day, there's somebody in there and chatting and praying for each other and 00:10:41.860 --> 00:10:52.900 encouraging each other. So yeah, it's been an amazing thing to watch what God is doing and to watch as He is 00:10:52.900 --> 00:11:00.100 bringing people, His people, His children, from all different corners of the globe and bringing us together. 00:11:00.740 --> 00:11:03.220 It's kind of like a little taste of heaven, I think. 00:11:03.220 --> 00:11:13.140 Tell me this, Anne. So you're in 50 countries, thousands of people. Is this spread across all 00:11:13.140 --> 00:11:18.740 the continents? Are they more tight towards a type of demographic? I know you were just in Africa, 00:11:18.740 --> 00:11:25.860 so I'm hinting you were probably a large following in Africa. What are you finding? 00:11:25.860 --> 00:11:36.180 Yeah. For some reason, we definitely have a larger population in Sub-Saharan Africa. So we actually 00:11:36.180 --> 00:11:43.300 have more people who are part of the chapel online in Harare, Zimbabwe than we do in my hometown of 00:11:43.300 --> 00:11:45.380 Brunswick, Georgia. That's awesome. 00:11:45.380 --> 00:11:54.420 So yeah, it's awesome. It's awesome. And we really have just quite a reach in Sub-Saharan Africa, 00:11:54.420 --> 00:12:04.900 Zimbabwe, South Africa, Uganda, Nigeria, Kenya, Ghana. We've got Liberia. We've got just a lot of those 00:12:04.900 --> 00:12:14.260 African countries. And we do have people from all over the rest of the globe, but really, 00:12:14.260 --> 00:12:17.780 we have a big concentration in Sub-Saharan Africa. 00:12:17.780 --> 00:12:25.140 And so there are African people that are approaching you that are joining the Facebook group that are 00:12:25.140 --> 00:12:30.180 looking for discipleship. They're looking for training. They're looking for something more 00:12:30.180 --> 00:12:36.660 than what their typical, I guess, church experience in Africa is leading. Is this the picture you're 00:12:36.660 --> 00:12:36.980 painting? 00:12:36.980 --> 00:12:46.020 Yeah, that's the picture. And sometimes I think that people are coming to the chapel online in particular, 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:56.980 just looking for someone to listen to them, looking for someone to support them. I have counseled with 00:12:56.980 --> 00:13:06.020 just untold numbers of people that have been in very difficult situations, very difficult situations. Some of 00:13:06.020 --> 00:13:15.380 them are just in extreme poverty. I have a friend who is in one of the largest slums in Africa, 00:13:15.380 --> 00:13:22.820 and we chat probably a couple of times a week about just the things that he is going through. And we have 00:13:22.820 --> 00:13:31.780 people that are running orphanages that are just in difficult, difficult situations. And we will pray 00:13:31.780 --> 00:13:39.860 together for God's provision. And we will support each other when things are difficult. 00:13:39.860 --> 00:13:48.660 I've had women who have actually, I had one woman just a couple of months ago, who was actually coming 00:13:48.660 --> 00:13:54.740 out of being sex trafficked in the Middle East, and she was moving back home and finally was able to 00:13:54.740 --> 00:14:01.060 move back home, but just felt like she was going to be rejected. And so just kind of talking with her 00:14:01.060 --> 00:14:09.460 through that transition. There are just so many stories that I could tell you about people that have 00:14:09.460 --> 00:14:18.420 come to us just looking for someone to understand and looking for someone to be Christ to them in that 00:14:18.420 --> 00:14:19.300 moment. 00:14:19.300 --> 00:14:24.740 Now, I don't want to be like the moment of awkward, and you may see this, like if you're watching this 00:14:24.740 --> 00:14:32.100 on YouTube, but you are a white woman from Georgia, like Brunswick, that's like outside, 00:14:32.100 --> 00:14:39.060 that's near Atlanta, right? So your accent, like you're a Southern gal, 00:14:39.060 --> 00:14:46.420 who is, who's doing digital ministry in, and effectively, it sounds like reaching, discipling, 00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:51.940 engaging, counseling people in like South Africa, Sub-Saharan South Africa. 00:14:51.940 --> 00:14:56.420 Um, contextualization, uh, challenges. 00:14:56.420 --> 00:14:57.700 Yes, very much. 00:14:57.700 --> 00:15:00.420 Um, cultural challenges. Talk to me a little bit here. 00:15:00.420 --> 00:15:08.660 Yeah. Yeah. So I, um, my history puts me in a good place to do this ministry. Um, when we were 00:15:08.660 --> 00:15:17.060 growing up, we lived in Nigeria for three years. So my dad, yes, yes, for sure. So we have a, 00:15:17.060 --> 00:15:23.940 I have in my heart, a deep love for Africa. And I see that God is bringing this kind of full circle 00:15:23.940 --> 00:15:30.420 in my life. So we lived three years in Nigeria. My brother went back on the mission field and was 00:15:30.420 --> 00:15:37.140 actually working in Uganda at Uganda Christian University. My mom and dad went back out and 00:15:37.140 --> 00:15:45.700 worked two years there. So our family has deep ties and deep roots in Africa. Um, and so I was able to 00:15:45.700 --> 00:15:53.860 draw on that context of just being able to bridge that culture gap a little bit. But at the same time, 00:15:53.860 --> 00:16:01.700 there is, there's a lot that is different between our, my context every day and their context every 00:16:01.700 --> 00:16:08.980 day as well. And so I think that is where, for me, that's where Martha comes in. Um, my friend from 00:16:08.980 --> 00:16:17.700 Zimbabwe, um, she and I connected early on and I very early on said, Martha, you are going to be my 00:16:17.700 --> 00:16:25.060 culture coach. And I said, look, I have had experience in Africa, but there are going to be 00:16:25.060 --> 00:16:29.620 times that people are going to ask me things that I am just not going to be able to answer. And I'm 00:16:29.620 --> 00:16:36.980 going to need someone to go to, to really help me understand culturally what's happening. And, and 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:45.940 there was a time early on when I had a woman who, um, was having some marital difficulties and there 00:16:45.940 --> 00:16:51.780 was a lot of infidelity with her husband and all of this. And I went to Martha and I said, 00:16:51.780 --> 00:16:58.100 okay, here's what's going on. And I need you to help me understand the cultural context of what's 00:16:58.100 --> 00:17:04.260 happening. And Martha was able to say, and here's what's going on. Here's what is really happening 00:17:04.260 --> 00:17:13.620 under the surface. And keep in mind that Martha is a 24 year old, um, single mom who is from Zimbabwe 00:17:13.620 --> 00:17:20.740 and has up until just a couple of weeks ago had never left the country. Um, and so God just put 00:17:20.740 --> 00:17:28.980 us together in each other's lives. And so she has really been my culture coach and I have been able 00:17:28.980 --> 00:17:36.180 to say, Hey, I'm going to get things wrong and I feel comfortable and okay saying some of these things 00:17:36.180 --> 00:17:40.580 things to Martha because I know she loves me and she's going to forgive me if I make a cultural gaffe 00:17:40.580 --> 00:17:48.340 with her. So let me get with her on really how I can advise people and just really learn about the 00:17:48.340 --> 00:17:56.420 culture. That's, that's incredible. And even your, your posture of humility of coming to a, a, a culture 00:17:56.420 --> 00:18:02.900 coach coming to Martha and saying, I need your help. Uh, you know, help me understand, help me learn, 00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:09.780 help me, um, better be able to serve the, these people, uh, by understanding the, you know, what's 00:18:09.780 --> 00:18:15.820 happening, uh, between the lines. Like that's, that's beautiful that you were just able to position 00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:21.300 yourself, you know, even in that moment as a learner. Are you, have you with this, with this ministry, 00:18:21.300 --> 00:18:27.060 you know, you got 2,400, 2,800, 1,400, you know, you're, you're past a thousand in these areas. 00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:33.500 Are you multiplying this, these ideology into volunteers? You know, what, what does that look 00:18:33.500 --> 00:18:39.000 like? What's, what's the plan to see this thing, uh, expand? Because I would imagine this is getting 00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:46.780 close to beyond what one person could manage. Absolutely. So, um, about six months into the 00:18:46.780 --> 00:18:54.520 chapel online, the church that I was with that helped me launch this decided that they really 00:18:54.520 --> 00:19:02.120 weren't in a place to support an online ministry like this. And so what used to be my full-time job, 00:19:02.120 --> 00:19:11.560 um, then became a job on the side because I took a new job, um, at, um, I actually am the director 00:19:11.560 --> 00:19:17.420 of leadership strategies and local church resources for the South Georgia Conference of the United 00:19:17.420 --> 00:19:26.080 Methodist Church. Very long title for what I do. Um, but then on the side, we began to create a 00:19:26.080 --> 00:19:31.980 nonprofit for the chapel online and becoming more, which now is under a nonprofit called digital 00:19:31.980 --> 00:19:39.940 discipleship. And so now I have actually less time to devote to some of the things that I was doing 00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:48.200 before. So, um, but even with that, the ministries have continued to grow. And so I've continued to 00:19:48.200 --> 00:19:55.580 try to find ways to help other people engage in the ministry of the chapel online and becoming more. 00:19:55.780 --> 00:20:02.440 I have a great leadership team for becoming more. That is a group of women that we have been together. 00:20:02.440 --> 00:20:09.860 Um, some of most, most of us since the very beginning of becoming more, and they are, they are the ones 00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:15.940 that make things go around. I write our curriculum, um, but they write a lot of the daily posts and 00:20:15.940 --> 00:20:23.880 things like that, that we have. So they continue to kind of help all of that move, uh, forward for the 00:20:23.880 --> 00:20:44.520 chapel online. Um, one of my favorites that does this is Derek and he is actually in Uganda. He is a 00:20:44.520 --> 00:20:52.380 theological student at a university there. And he, every so often, probably about once a week for the 00:20:52.380 --> 00:20:59.180 last several months has been writing some devotional thoughts down and he will submit it for posting. 00:20:59.900 --> 00:21:06.960 And he just has the neatest insights and the neatest way of putting things and expressing himself. 00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:15.640 And so, you know, I am releasing other people to begin to develop some of the content that gets 00:21:15.640 --> 00:21:23.360 posted on, on the chapel online as well. And Martha is actually the one who is responsible for our WhatsApp 00:21:23.360 --> 00:21:32.540 group. And so she has become our WhatsApp administrator and my culture coach as well. So, um, so it's just 00:21:32.540 --> 00:21:40.920 as I get to know some of the people that God has placed in our path, I'm be being able to move them from, um, 00:21:40.980 --> 00:21:47.080 consumer to contributor to creator. Those are kind of the three steps in that process that I'm hoping 00:21:47.080 --> 00:21:48.700 to see people move in. 00:21:48.700 --> 00:21:53.960 Well, and as you're now doing, uh, the, the chapel bivocational where you've got the nine to five, 00:21:54.020 --> 00:21:58.880 the job and something's on the side, you know, bivocational, it's not an excuse to slow down. 00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:04.760 It's, it's the reason why you need to multiply into others so that you can share the responsibility. 00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:09.380 It means that you don't have 40 hours a week to pour into what, what you're doing. 00:22:09.380 --> 00:22:15.440 And let's be honest too. What full-time pastor actually spends 40 hours. It's, it's, it's much more than that, 00:22:15.440 --> 00:22:20.140 but you, you don't, you don't have that time and that resource. And so it's all about handing that off to 00:22:20.140 --> 00:22:25.160 others and bringing others alongside. And, and, and so I love what you're describing about taking somebody 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:30.400 from that consumer to, uh, to where, where they're, they're, they're generating and they're being a creator 00:22:30.400 --> 00:22:36.300 of that. It's, it's very good. I'm, I'm curious though, like, and, and I, I didn't ask this, um, you know, 00:22:36.300 --> 00:22:40.600 I knew some of your story, but as more of this is, is unraveling, I didn't realize you had spent 00:22:40.600 --> 00:22:49.340 years, uh, a couple, three years in, in Africa previous. Do, is it, is it coincidence that you 00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:55.140 ended up connecting very well with African culture through the established church that you were 00:22:55.140 --> 00:23:02.620 working at and, or were you intentionally or subconsciously doing something that was attractive 00:23:02.620 --> 00:23:09.540 to that culture? I mean, why, why wasn't it Hispanic culture or why wasn't it a Filipino? I, I, I get a 00:23:09.540 --> 00:23:13.480 lot of Filipino within the church digital just because the English speaking crowd that's there. 00:23:13.640 --> 00:23:18.740 What was it in, in your, what you were doing that ended up actually being attractive to the, 00:23:18.820 --> 00:23:19.700 to the African culture? 00:23:19.980 --> 00:23:30.540 I think, um, I, this sounds ridiculously simple. Um, but I think it's because when they engaged with me, 00:23:30.620 --> 00:23:38.700 I engaged with them. I think a lot of times you have international people that try to engage with 00:23:38.700 --> 00:23:43.040 you on social media and you just assume they're going to ask you for money or they're going to be 00:23:43.040 --> 00:23:48.400 that Nigerian prince that says he wants to give you, you know, $200 million in your bank account or 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:54.020 something like that. And, and instead of making those preconceived assumptions about people, 00:23:54.020 --> 00:24:02.060 I think just begin a conversation, um, um, and say, hi, how are you doing? Tell me where you're from and, and, 00:24:02.060 --> 00:24:08.540 you know, and what your life is like and begin to ask questions. And so I think for me, it was just 00:24:08.540 --> 00:24:17.860 really asking questions and continuing that conversation and getting back to people and giving people, 00:24:18.020 --> 00:24:25.540 um, um, approaching people with the dignity of the assumption that they are children of God, 00:24:25.540 --> 00:24:32.900 just like we are just like I am, and that they are looking for discipleship and friendship. Um, 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:40.600 and so I just began to engage with them. And I think that is why they came back, um, is just because 00:24:40.600 --> 00:24:46.780 of a simple conversation to say, hi, my name is Anne and I lead the chapel online. I saw that you just 00:24:46.780 --> 00:24:52.860 joined. Tell me a little bit about yourself. And so I think it was just simply asking questions and 00:24:52.860 --> 00:24:53.740 engaging people. 00:24:54.140 --> 00:25:00.740 Yeah. Just, I'm almost replying. It's even, even in my own church staff story, like I I've got a story 00:25:00.740 --> 00:25:09.820 similar to that, where I had a, um, I got this email on Sunday after a church services and I opened 00:25:09.820 --> 00:25:15.080 it Monday morning and literally you get these emails where it's like the prince from Nigeria who needs 00:25:15.080 --> 00:25:22.020 $2.4 million. They get 24 billion. And if you give them X, he'll give you Y and you know, 00:25:22.020 --> 00:25:28.020 that, that deal. And so I got this email and right off the bat, um, um, it looks, it looks like it's 00:25:28.020 --> 00:25:33.040 this, you know, Prince in Nigeria story. And so I, I, I can remember it was, it was a long day Monday. 00:25:33.620 --> 00:25:40.200 And, uh, I, I can remember the, uh, mousing, moving the cursor to the junk button in the Gmail 00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:46.860 interface and, uh, and just hovering because it's been a long day and I need to laugh. I want to see how 00:25:46.860 --> 00:25:52.000 much this guy wants from me. And so I'm reading this email. I'm assuming spam email just to 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:56.480 get to chuckle to see how many zeros are behind the dollar sign that he thinks I'm going to give 00:25:56.480 --> 00:26:02.880 them via email. And the deeper I get into Phillip's email, the more that I realized this guy's not 00:26:02.880 --> 00:26:10.320 asking for money. He's asking for discipleship. And this is, I had completely misinterpreted what 00:26:10.320 --> 00:26:16.120 this guy's looking for in this email. And, uh, you know, I sent it over at the time. I had, 00:26:16.220 --> 00:26:20.740 I had a guy, uh, his name's Michael. Uh, and so I sent it over, I forwarded it to Michael, 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:27.040 who was my, my small groups and my discipleship online guy. And I said, Hey, Michael, um, go to 00:26:27.040 --> 00:26:32.580 town, you know, reach out, follow up with them. Um, if this is, if there's something there, awesome. 00:26:32.700 --> 00:26:39.560 If there's something not there, let it go. Like don't, don't waste time on it. Um, and, and so 00:26:39.560 --> 00:26:45.220 ended up that, that Michael was, um, that there was something there that Michael would literally 00:26:45.220 --> 00:26:52.620 teach this guy lessons on Wednesday and that, that this guy would go around and teach it to his house 00:26:52.620 --> 00:26:59.840 church on Sunday. And we were literally training this guy, um, to, to how to do it, train Philip 00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:05.220 on how to do this. And so we started getting stories back of like 50, 75, a hundred people 00:27:05.220 --> 00:27:12.380 showing up. And, and, uh, we started hearing stories of baptisms, like 25 kids on a Sunday. 00:27:12.380 --> 00:27:17.400 And I started, it was funny. I started talking to my, to my leadership about this and my leadership's 00:27:17.400 --> 00:27:21.580 like, we don't, we don't believe you. We want photos. And so I'm like, Hey, Philip, send photos. 00:27:21.580 --> 00:27:25.120 Like, let's, let's actually see the same. We started, we started seeing what was happening 00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:30.820 and it was, and it was, it was fascinating. Like the lessons that we taught Philip didn't 00:27:30.820 --> 00:27:36.740 even stop within his church. He started on his own volition, traveling around to neighboring 00:27:36.740 --> 00:27:44.180 cities, uh, towns, communities, other countries teaching this stuff. And it was like, we activated 00:27:44.180 --> 00:27:51.280 this guy to be a, a church network, church planting leader within South Africa by actually just 00:27:51.280 --> 00:27:56.040 like having some conversations and giving them some light coaching. And that, that's, that 00:27:56.040 --> 00:27:59.740 was like, it was funny. I'll get off me. I'm sorry. But like five years, that was five 00:27:59.740 --> 00:28:06.560 years ago. And it was funny, Michael, just within the past three months flew to Africa for the 00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:11.520 first time to meet with Philip, took over some resources. They were actually wanting to do 00:28:11.520 --> 00:28:16.180 it pre COVID. Uh, but COVID hit right. And travel shut down right when they wanted to do 00:28:16.180 --> 00:28:20.640 it like two or three years ago, but they finally, they finally did it and got, got face to face 00:28:20.640 --> 00:28:27.220 and, and just some incredible stories, uh, in celebration of, of what's God's done because 00:28:27.220 --> 00:28:34.140 of, you know, some people openly having some conversations with some people engaging, respecting, 00:28:34.260 --> 00:28:39.560 I see you. I, um, I'm, I'm here for you. You know, I, I love that language to be seen, 00:28:39.600 --> 00:28:45.520 to be known, to be loved. That was, that was so good. Now you got to do this in like real 00:28:45.520 --> 00:28:50.280 time. You just got back from Africa. What was it? You were in Uganda, right? Like, so talk 00:28:50.280 --> 00:28:57.040 to me a little bit like that. How did you end up in, in Uganda? Yeah. So, um, on the leadership at 00:28:57.040 --> 00:29:03.680 the chapel online, I have a pastor who is actually in Nashville, Tennessee. His name, name is David 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:10.940 Sabulame. And he is from Uganda originally, but they live here in the U S and he and his wife 00:29:10.940 --> 00:29:21.260 actually started a school and just over 11 years, this school has just blown up. And it is in Uganda 00:29:21.260 --> 00:29:29.380 in the Kulungu district in Wasundeku. And he actually asked me a couple of months back, he said, 00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:35.020 Ann, when are you going to Africa? And I was like, David, whenever somebody will help me out with the 00:29:35.020 --> 00:29:41.520 cost. And, and so he said, well, how about this summer? And of course that's just, you know, 00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:49.340 two months to get ready for this trip. But he invited me to go over there and to speak and lead 00:29:49.340 --> 00:29:58.140 a women's conference over there, uh, for the women in rural Uganda in this area where the, um, the school 00:29:58.140 --> 00:30:05.780 has an impact with these different educational centers. And so I took a friend over there who's 00:30:05.780 --> 00:30:14.480 also on my becoming more leadership team. And we booked a flight for Martha from Zimbabwe and Martha 00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:22.200 medicine, Uganda with, um, along with another team from Nashville that was going to do some children's 00:30:22.200 --> 00:30:30.900 ministry stuff and things around the school. And we took the first couple of days to, um, go out into 00:30:30.900 --> 00:30:38.180 the surrounding areas where we were and meet our chapel online people. And so some of the people that 00:30:38.180 --> 00:30:45.820 are my dearest friends that I have been in contact with for, um, you know, some of them over a year, 00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:53.040 we were able to go and see them and see their ministries. Um, as you were talking about that 00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:59.400 last story that you mentioned in South Africa, one of the things that came to my mind was that 00:30:59.400 --> 00:31:06.740 about a year ago, I began having conversations with these three guys that were in Jinja, Uganda, 00:31:06.740 --> 00:31:12.780 and they each had different ministry areas. They each had different things going on in their lives, 00:31:12.780 --> 00:31:19.360 but then more and more, as I talked to them, I said, Hey, you guys really need to meet each other. 00:31:19.360 --> 00:31:26.840 Like you're in the same area and you're doing ministry and you're looking for support. And all 00:31:26.840 --> 00:31:33.300 three of you are right there in the same town. And so about six months ago, they met up and met each 00:31:33.300 --> 00:31:39.940 other, sent me a picture of themselves together and they have started doing ministry. And so I was able 00:31:39.940 --> 00:31:46.820 to come, they actually do women's ministry with some of the women that are at their church. And, um, 00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:55.220 and so I was able to go and meet with three groups of women from an organization that one of our, 00:31:55.220 --> 00:32:01.940 our chapel online guys, Joshua Boulay has an organization called Lift Up Girls. And I was able to speak 00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:10.620 to three groups of women, many of them young girls, young mothers. One of them was as young as 14 that had just 00:32:10.620 --> 00:32:18.220 given birth and they're trying to earn a living. They're trying to give them just some leadership, basic life 00:32:18.220 --> 00:32:27.060 skills. Um, and so I was able to go and do ministry with my guys in person, um, which just felt so amazingly 00:32:27.060 --> 00:32:34.100 wonderful. They call me mom. So these are all my boys. And, um, and it was just so awesome to be able 00:32:34.100 --> 00:32:43.780 to, to be with them. I was able to also go to Mityana and see Frank. Frank is a young man. He was 18 00:32:43.780 --> 00:32:50.420 when I first got connected with him through the chapel online. And he actually told me in our first 00:32:50.420 --> 00:32:57.260 conversations, um, and will you pray for me? I have an orphanage here. And I was like, how old are you? 00:32:57.260 --> 00:33:03.060 And he was like 18 and I'm like 18 and you have an orphanage. And he ended up saying, well, actually 00:33:03.060 --> 00:33:13.320 the orphans are me and my brothers and sisters. And so he at 18 had lost his mother, his, all of the 00:33:13.320 --> 00:33:19.020 fathers of the kids were out of the picture. And it was just him and five younger brothers and sisters. 00:33:19.900 --> 00:33:27.500 And we began having conversations. Um, and we actually worked, uh, a team of us have actually 00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:33.980 worked to get all of Frank's brothers and sisters sponsored for school. And they're now in school 00:33:33.980 --> 00:33:41.180 and Frank is in school earning a, um, a certification as a, as an electrician. So we were able to go 00:33:41.180 --> 00:33:48.860 and be with him, walk to the kids' schools, meet their teachers, all of these wonderful things and 00:33:48.860 --> 00:33:57.400 spend some time with them as well. So it was just so good to pick up the relationship that has already 00:33:57.400 --> 00:34:04.820 been established with all of these friends of mine and, um, and just do ministry with them, 00:34:04.940 --> 00:34:11.080 do life with them, um, walk down the street and go to the school and go to the marketplace with them 00:34:11.080 --> 00:34:15.240 and just spend time. So it was an amazing experience. 00:34:15.620 --> 00:34:19.600 That's, that's beautiful with, with Frank and how you're able to step in. Um, and, and let me, 00:34:19.660 --> 00:34:25.740 let me ask cause it's your, your, um, let me, let me pull a thread, see what happens. So like you 00:34:25.740 --> 00:34:32.760 were able to come in physically and help Frank. And so part of this is, is I'm curious as a digital 00:34:32.760 --> 00:34:38.000 church, what, what is the role with physical with, with what you're, what you're doing? Um, and maybe 00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.900 a follow-up question to that. Do you even consider what yourself, what you're doing? Do you consider 00:34:42.900 --> 00:34:49.020 that church? Does Frank consider that church? Uh, is, is the desire to get Frank connected to a physical 00:34:49.020 --> 00:34:54.240 church? Is it to stay connected with you? Kind of, you know, some of the ecclesiology, I know, 00:34:54.240 --> 00:35:00.600 I know, you know, that area, um, you know, maybe talk to me a little bit about how the chapel online 00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:01.260 is operating. 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:09.640 Yeah. So in Frank's case, Frank does have a church that he attends. Um, but that church does not offer 00:35:09.640 --> 00:35:15.440 the daily discipleship that we offer. They simply don't have the resources in order to do some of the 00:35:15.440 --> 00:35:23.520 things that we're doing. And so I think one of the things that, um, that has been a topic of 00:35:23.520 --> 00:35:31.800 conversation since the chapel online started was, and is this a church or is it not a church? And so 00:35:31.800 --> 00:35:40.040 many people have asked that. And every time I get asked that, I just kind of smile and say, 00:35:40.160 --> 00:35:49.300 I feel like the church is anytime the people of God gather together. That is the church. So are we the 00:35:49.300 --> 00:35:57.280 church? Yes, we are the church. Are we a church? Um, I think that's a whole different kind of thing. 00:35:57.280 --> 00:36:08.740 Are we a church? No. Are we the church? Yes. Um, and I don't think that, um, I am just not as 00:36:08.740 --> 00:36:18.200 concerned about labeling whether we are a church. I just want to be the church. And so for a lot of 00:36:18.200 --> 00:36:26.260 our people that are not engaged in a church, in a physical church where they attend, I will try to 00:36:26.260 --> 00:36:32.360 counsel them to move toward that. Um, but for some of them, they're not there yet. And I'm okay with 00:36:32.360 --> 00:36:38.060 them not being there yet. I would much rather them engage with the chapel online digitally than not 00:36:38.060 --> 00:36:47.160 engage with any kind of discipleship at all. And so, you know, I think that all of us should be, um, 00:36:47.160 --> 00:36:52.580 should be engaged in as many avenues as possible to build our faith. I know that there was a 00:36:52.580 --> 00:36:58.980 conversation I had with somebody who said, but Anne, if they're being discipled on the chapel online 00:36:58.980 --> 00:37:06.100 and in church, they're being double discipled. And I'm like, friend, let me be, you know, triple 00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:11.720 discipled and quadruple discipled if that's what it takes. I would much rather be double discipled than 00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:20.300 only singular discipled. Um, so I'm not, um, I'm not trying to be the only expression of church that 00:37:20.300 --> 00:37:26.620 people engage with. I hope that we will all be engaged with multiples, multiple expressions of 00:37:26.620 --> 00:37:33.520 church, because I think church, the church is so much more than just one building and one group of 00:37:33.520 --> 00:37:42.620 people gathered. Um, and I think that if we, if we see ourselves just as connected and attached with 00:37:42.620 --> 00:37:51.060 one particular congregation solely, um, we are being singularly discipled, um, then we miss out on the 00:37:51.060 --> 00:38:01.060 richness of other people's perspectives and traditions. And we, we miss out. Um, so I think let's, uh, triple 00:38:01.060 --> 00:38:06.820 disciple people. If that's what it takes in order to share the gospel, um, I'm all for it. 00:38:07.080 --> 00:38:13.700 I, I don't think I've ever realized I've had this conversation hundreds of times, if not thousands of 00:38:13.700 --> 00:38:20.720 times with church planters, lovers, haters, everywhere in between skeptics, naysayers. I don't 00:38:20.720 --> 00:38:28.840 think I've ever heard anyone describe to me the a church versus the church mentality like that. And 00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:37.760 that's, that's very, um, that's very easy to, to put together, to, to process, to, to reconcile. Um, 00:38:38.020 --> 00:38:41.680 you know, and, and I've been, I've been wrestling with that through digital church network. Like we're, 00:38:41.680 --> 00:38:46.220 we're, we're, it was somebody, it was funny. One of the, one of our network leaders actually pulled 00:38:46.220 --> 00:38:51.160 me aside and he said, you know, I know what you're doing. And I was, I was like, well, what are we 00:38:51.160 --> 00:38:57.520 doing? And he's, he's like, you're, you're creating, you're creating a digital church for, for pastors. 00:38:57.880 --> 00:39:01.200 Like, like you are setting the model for what digital church should be with, with, with the 00:39:01.200 --> 00:39:06.200 network, but you're not calling it a church. And I laughed and I was like, I, I mean, I, I guess 00:39:06.200 --> 00:39:09.660 that's what we're doing, but you know, I don't, I, I don't know that I ever really 00:39:09.660 --> 00:39:13.240 considered my, what we were doing a church. Uh, I don't, I don't even know that I consider 00:39:13.240 --> 00:39:17.980 myself a pastor, but that's, that's a whole other conversation. But this, the heart of, 00:39:18.500 --> 00:39:26.220 um, we're not a church, but we're being the church is really interesting. Um, I don't know 00:39:26.220 --> 00:39:33.480 that I'm a hundred percent sold, but it's definitely for, for people that are, are skeptics and for 00:39:33.480 --> 00:39:39.120 people that struggle with the ecclesiological side. I think that solves a lot of the problems 00:39:39.120 --> 00:39:45.740 where it's, Hey, we're, we're working with, uh, by being the church, we're working with people that 00:39:45.740 --> 00:39:51.100 are, uh, and, and helping them get connected to a church as well. And the whole idea about single 00:39:51.100 --> 00:39:57.140 discipleship is ridiculous. I I've, I've heard that argument. Well, we're discipling them. So you don't 00:39:57.140 --> 00:40:02.760 need to, how about we do it together? How, how about there's multiple contextualizations? How about 00:40:02.760 --> 00:40:08.060 we, we work together? You know, I, you know, I, I just, I, I totally, I remember reading in the Bible 00:40:08.060 --> 00:40:13.740 where Paul talks about isolation and how we should be separated and not working together. I'm being 00:40:13.740 --> 00:40:20.220 entirely sarcastic at this moment. So definitely love what you're, what you're doing. Um, talk to me a 00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:29.060 little bit like, what's, what, what does the future hold? Are you deeper into, uh, African, um, you 00:40:29.060 --> 00:40:34.700 know, connecting with, with more of the, let me ask this question. How much of the chapel is like 00:40:34.700 --> 00:40:40.320 American? You, you, you, you alluded to there, you get more attraction, not in your hometown, 00:40:40.320 --> 00:40:45.700 you get more attraction in some city and in Africa. Like, is there any percentage of people that are 00:40:45.700 --> 00:40:52.920 American? Um, like, is there any, like, what, what is the average American person connecting with? Are 00:40:52.920 --> 00:40:58.800 they connecting the same way? Is there differences in how an American and an African is processing 00:40:58.800 --> 00:41:05.120 through your stuff? What, what does that look like? So there are, um, some differences. We do have a lot 00:41:05.120 --> 00:41:11.840 of people from the U S that are very active in the chapel online. Um, and I love one of my favorite 00:41:11.840 --> 00:41:19.600 things to do is to, on Wednesdays, we have live prayer on Facebook. And so Wednesday morning, 00:41:19.600 --> 00:41:26.480 I will get up, which Wednesday morning for me is, you know, afternoon, midday to afternoon in Africa. 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:32.900 So that there's a time lapse there, but Wednesday morning, I'll get up and I'll do a post and say, 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:38.120 Hey, going live for prayer later today. How can I be praying for you? Um, I did it just today. We're 00:41:38.120 --> 00:41:43.080 recording on a Wednesday. So I did it just this morning and we have the prayer requests that 00:41:43.080 --> 00:41:49.020 continue to flood in throughout the day. And I love that the prayer requests that we're praying over 00:41:49.020 --> 00:41:56.380 are from people of every, from every continent. And the thing that I love the most is to see 00:41:56.380 --> 00:42:03.240 our people praying for each other and commenting on each other's prayer requests. And, you know, 00:42:03.240 --> 00:42:10.680 today I had somebody that was a pastor from another, um, from another church in another state that was 00:42:10.680 --> 00:42:18.840 commenting on someone's post asking for prayer. And I know the story behind that other person and just 00:42:18.840 --> 00:42:26.600 what a beautiful picture to see the people of God coming together in that way. Um, and I think what I 00:42:26.600 --> 00:42:35.560 have seen is that my friends from Africa are teaching me and all the rest of the people in the chapel online 00:42:35.560 --> 00:42:44.920 from the U S a lot about the power of prayer because they are so very consistent in prayer. They are so 00:42:44.920 --> 00:42:55.320 very, um, passionate and, and very intentional about praying for each other and very open about asking 00:42:55.320 --> 00:43:02.600 for prayer, asking for prayer in all kinds of different areas and crises in their lives. And so they are 00:43:02.600 --> 00:43:12.360 inviting an openness in the chapel online that has been really good for those of us from the U S to learn 00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:20.440 from and to grow in. So I think that they are definitely leading me in that area and encouraging 00:43:20.440 --> 00:43:26.600 me in that area. Um, since the chapel online started, I have told so many people, I've never prayed this 00:43:26.600 --> 00:43:32.120 much in my whole entire life. Like I never knew that we could, that I could spend as much time 00:43:32.120 --> 00:43:38.440 in prayer as I do right now. And that's because I have been learning and growing in that area from 00:43:38.440 --> 00:43:46.200 my friends, um, in Africa. So they definitely are, are prayer warriors. And I appreciate that. 00:43:46.200 --> 00:43:52.600 That's beautiful. I've often wondered, um, like what, and what, uh, oversee what a global influence 00:43:52.600 --> 00:43:59.080 would be on, on a U S church or U S individual. And, and, and how could that be? We had a, uh, 00:43:59.080 --> 00:44:05.560 a podcast conversation with Sam George and that he was a, he was, he's a missiologist. He works for, um, 00:44:06.120 --> 00:44:12.360 sin network and, and a couple other global organizations. But, um, it was funny. Like he, I was funny. I just, 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:18.280 I remember I was describing to him, like some of the things that I was excited about with, with digital 00:44:18.280 --> 00:44:25.560 churches, maybe back 2020, uh, early in the COVID season. And, um, I was talking about the global 00:44:25.560 --> 00:44:34.840 reach of, of what we could do. And, uh, and Sam, who's, um, Indian, I believe, uh, like India, 00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.880 Indian, uh, you know, it says to me, it was, was so funny. He, he slapped me upside the head. I don't 00:44:39.880 --> 00:44:45.880 even think he realized it. He said, Jeff, your vision for digital is so small. And, and I'm just like, 00:44:45.880 --> 00:44:50.840 well, well, what it like, you, you, you don't even know who you're talking to right now. 00:44:50.840 --> 00:44:55.080 And, and, and he's like, he's like, you're thinking this way. You know, ultimately it's 00:44:55.080 --> 00:45:01.880 like, what happens this way? And it really started to challenge me about how, if we could bring these 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:08.120 global influence, if we could blow, bring the global church to the U S how maybe that helps 00:45:08.120 --> 00:45:13.480 solve some of our, some of our, our problems. And so part of that is, is networking to bringing 00:45:13.480 --> 00:45:20.920 those influences back towards the U S. So actually creating those, those digital roadways or physical 00:45:20.920 --> 00:45:27.400 relationships to, to allow that, uh, influence to come. And then it's also within the U S it's 00:45:27.400 --> 00:45:31.320 posturing ourself. And you've done a great job of this hand, posturing yourself with humility, 00:45:31.320 --> 00:45:36.760 uh, where you are a learner, where, where you can be teachable, where maybe, maybe just, maybe we 00:45:36.760 --> 00:45:42.200 don't have this whole thing here in the U S figure it out. Maybe the U S churches is, is not the, the, 00:45:42.200 --> 00:45:46.360 well, I started to say spectacle. Actually, I think it probably is a spectacle, but you know, the, 00:45:46.360 --> 00:45:51.800 the dream example of, of what it should be. And maybe there's, um, you know, maybe there's nothing 00:45:51.800 --> 00:45:57.160 perfect this side of heaven and we should all be learning from, from one another. And so this is, 00:45:57.160 --> 00:46:03.320 this is beautiful. So where are you going like with this? Are you interested? Is it just expanding 00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:09.160 Africa? Are you like, let's go to Ukraine? Let's go to Russia. Let's go to, you know, 00:46:09.160 --> 00:46:15.160 other Eastern Europe. What is there? Is it just as the Lord leads, are you intentionally driving to do 00:46:15.160 --> 00:46:18.040 something? What's, what's your approach with growth and expansion? 00:46:18.040 --> 00:46:26.200 So I just am, um, am the first follower is kind of how I'm positioning myself. I'm letting the Holy 00:46:26.200 --> 00:46:33.960 Spirit lead and I'm just following. So I, I would love to be able to do some more trips and things 00:46:33.960 --> 00:46:40.680 like that to reach out to some different people in different, um, different parts of Africa where 00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:46.600 we seem to have a concentration. I would love to spend some time with my friends in Zimbabwe, 00:46:46.600 --> 00:46:52.440 since we have so many people from Zimbabwe in the chapel online, um, love to go to South Africa 00:46:52.440 --> 00:46:57.080 and to spend some time there. I have multiple people in Pakistan that are wanting me to come 00:46:57.080 --> 00:47:04.360 there as well. So I don't know. I mean, really the limit I think for us is we need people who are 00:47:04.360 --> 00:47:11.000 English speakers. Um, and that is what kind of, we all seem to have in common. But other than that, 00:47:12.040 --> 00:47:19.400 I think that we will just continue to go and to respond to wherever the Holy Spirit is leading. 00:47:19.400 --> 00:47:25.720 I would love to eventually be able to launch some community groups and things like that 00:47:25.720 --> 00:47:33.000 overseas. Um, that is something that we have done with becoming more. So we have with our women's 00:47:33.000 --> 00:47:40.680 group, we have in-person and online groups that meet and we've launched multiple, uh, groups around 00:47:40.680 --> 00:47:48.520 the country here in the U S that are becoming more groups. And so that way you have kind of the hybrid 00:47:48.520 --> 00:47:54.760 version of in-person and digital that gives you that community. And I would love to eventually 00:47:54.760 --> 00:48:01.960 do that in some different places with the chapel online, but with doing this part-time, um, in my 00:48:01.960 --> 00:48:07.960 spare time that, um, you know, just slows us down a little bit with our plans. But ultimately, 00:48:07.960 --> 00:48:13.720 I would love to be able to see just like I connected those people in Jinja, Uganda. I'd love to begin to 00:48:13.720 --> 00:48:20.840 connect the dots with some different people who then begin to have relationships and meet together in 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:27.080 person and grow and do ministry together and do life together. So, so the first one, I guess, 00:48:27.080 --> 00:48:32.600 is in Jinja, Uganda with, with my three guys there and we just, we'll see. 00:48:32.600 --> 00:48:36.760 I love it. The first follower. Hey, we're, we're, we're following the Holy Spirit, uh, 00:48:36.760 --> 00:48:42.760 wherever he leads and, and taking cues for him. And, and, and so, and thank you for what you're doing. 00:48:42.760 --> 00:48:48.360 Thank you for being, being obedient. You know, it's been a, a fun road going from, uh, you know, 00:48:48.360 --> 00:48:53.080 the established church to bi-vocational, finding the job, continuing the ministry. I mean, 00:48:53.080 --> 00:48:59.080 there, there's a, there's a lot around that, um, taking the, the, the ministry to Africa and being 00:48:59.640 --> 00:49:06.120 faithful, not to Africa, but with Africa and being faithful to that. Uh, and so definitely excited to 00:49:06.120 --> 00:49:12.520 see how, uh, the women's ministry as well as, uh, the, the church continue to grow. But as, 00:49:12.520 --> 00:49:14.760 as we're landing the plane here, any, any closing thoughts? 00:49:14.760 --> 00:49:22.040 I think I would just encourage people that are engaging in digital ministries to start a conversation 00:49:22.040 --> 00:49:28.680 with someone from another country. Um, just go into it with open hands to say, 00:49:28.680 --> 00:49:34.680 what might I be able to learn from this person? And I think that once you open the door, 00:49:35.160 --> 00:49:41.640 your heart will grow and will expand and your mind will grow and expand. And you will be able to 00:49:41.640 --> 00:49:49.240 encounter God in new ways, just because you are open to how God is working in another person, 00:49:49.240 --> 00:49:56.680 in another country, in another culture. Um, and I think that that will give each and every person 00:49:56.680 --> 00:50:01.720 a little taste of heaven, because I have a feeling we're not going to be sitting in a U.S. section, 00:50:01.720 --> 00:50:07.800 and an Africa section, and, uh, uh, an Asian section. We're not going to, we're not going to be sitting 00:50:07.800 --> 00:50:15.720 in those sections. Um, and we're going to be all together in this united, diverse community of 00:50:15.720 --> 00:50:22.360 believers. And so, how about we start learning that now? And let's, let's do a little warm-up for 00:50:22.360 --> 00:50:26.120 heaven. I think that digital gives us the opportunity to do that. 00:50:26.120 --> 00:50:31.400 Amen. Actually, honestly, that's why I live in Miami. Uh, it's because of the, the diversity 00:50:32.040 --> 00:50:37.640 of this city. It's, it's, it's captivating. Uh, it's expensive. I don't know how I can afford 00:50:37.640 --> 00:50:43.720 it anymore, but it's captivating even being, being among this. And so, and I, I, I love, 00:50:43.720 --> 00:50:49.240 I love what you're talking about. And, uh, I, I will continue to be praying for, uh, the chapel 00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:53.880 online and, and, and what's happening, uh, there, there globally. And so, Hey, we're going to land 00:50:53.880 --> 00:50:58.280 the plane. Uh, it's been a great show. We're going to, we've got some more, some more global 00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:03.560 opportunities, some more global conversations coming soon. So stay tuned, work, work on a couple other 00:51:03.560 --> 00:51:09.800 angles, uh, Germany, uh, Europe as, as well as some others. And so, uh, we'll be leaning into that soon. 00:51:09.800 --> 00:51:15.160 But for, for Ann, uh, this is Jeff, uh, with the church digital and digital church network. Thanks 00:51:15.160 --> 00:51:19.800 for, for jumping on, uh, the pod here. We'll see you next time on the show. Y'all have a good day.