WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.760 But the question that I would ask every pastor is, what are we losing by not going there? 00:00:06.500 --> 00:00:13.620 What is the kingdom losing by not taking up, by not looking at this opportunity to meet people where they are? 00:00:13.660 --> 00:00:15.020 Because they're by the millions. 00:00:15.420 --> 00:00:16.900 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:17.620 --> 00:00:21.680 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:22.100 --> 00:00:26.180 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:28.900 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:29.700 --> 00:00:31.860 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:32.640 --> 00:00:35.400 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:36.180 --> 00:00:38.420 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this? 00:00:38.920 --> 00:00:43.440 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, 00:00:44.180 --> 00:00:51.100 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically. 00:00:51.780 --> 00:00:52.560 Our heart? 00:00:53.060 --> 00:00:58.760 That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple making that will revolutionize your church. 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:02.080 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:02.560 --> 00:01:02.860 All right. 00:01:02.860 --> 00:01:03.280 Hey, everybody. 00:01:03.520 --> 00:01:04.660 Happy Labor Day. 00:01:04.720 --> 00:01:06.880 Hey, it's Jeff with the Church Digital Podcast. 00:01:07.040 --> 00:01:07.960 Looking forward to this conversation. 00:01:08.080 --> 00:01:11.860 Digital Church Network, Leadership Network, so much other fun stuff. 00:01:12.020 --> 00:01:16.020 And we've got a really interesting conversation centered around today. 00:01:16.820 --> 00:01:17.840 You know, it's funny. 00:01:17.980 --> 00:01:21.320 I'm the guy that always got like a lot of side hustles. 00:01:21.320 --> 00:01:22.440 And hey, that's a great idea. 00:01:22.500 --> 00:01:23.680 Let's really move towards that. 00:01:23.920 --> 00:01:30.900 And the guest today in this conversation, man, I just kind of walked into this incredible opportunity, incredible vision. 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:36.340 It's like, yeah, I really just want to be a part of this thing and actually see how it rolls out. 00:01:36.460 --> 00:01:40.100 And so for the conversation, we're bringing in Joey Santos. 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:40.640 Hey, Joey. 00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:41.180 How are you doing? 00:01:41.460 --> 00:01:41.880 Hey, Jeff. 00:01:41.920 --> 00:01:42.420 How are you doing, man? 00:01:42.420 --> 00:01:43.140 Good to see you again. 00:01:43.440 --> 00:01:45.040 Good to see you as well. 00:01:45.140 --> 00:01:49.020 And so Joey is, man, I feel like I've known this guy for decades. 00:01:49.020 --> 00:01:52.580 But it's really, it's just been like right before COVID. 00:01:52.760 --> 00:01:53.680 Like it's just been a couple of years. 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:54.060 Yeah, I know. 00:01:54.660 --> 00:01:57.960 It was one of those like very, it was very accidental, actually. 00:01:58.160 --> 00:02:00.660 Like we, all of a sudden we're in the same room. 00:02:00.960 --> 00:02:01.340 It was like. 00:02:03.800 --> 00:02:07.480 Kind of got thrust together in a unique situation. 00:02:07.700 --> 00:02:08.180 So it's good. 00:02:08.620 --> 00:02:11.000 You know, it's like, this is totally off topic. 00:02:11.000 --> 00:02:16.300 But you know, it's like in the action movies where the guy and the girl who have nothing 00:02:16.300 --> 00:02:20.060 to do with each other go through the trauma, traumatic experience of whatever the action 00:02:20.060 --> 00:02:20.380 is. 00:02:20.760 --> 00:02:22.660 And all of a sudden they're like dating afterwards. 00:02:23.620 --> 00:02:25.120 Joey, you're my action hero. 00:02:25.640 --> 00:02:29.860 Like we just got kind of put together in this unique situation. 00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.360 And oh man, this is all sorts of weird. 00:02:33.660 --> 00:02:33.980 Exactly. 00:02:34.740 --> 00:02:35.860 Don't take this too far. 00:02:35.980 --> 00:02:36.700 That's not where I'm going. 00:02:36.880 --> 00:02:37.680 But oh my gosh. 00:02:37.960 --> 00:02:38.680 So good. 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:44.820 So Joey's, Joey's my, Joey's my, my global innovations. 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:47.060 No, global innovations pastor, right? 00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:47.860 Is that, is that the right title? 00:02:48.160 --> 00:02:50.520 No, that, that's integration, man. 00:02:50.660 --> 00:02:53.440 You gotta, you gotta mix me up with JMO. 00:02:53.600 --> 00:02:54.380 That's what happens. 00:02:54.980 --> 00:02:58.340 Listen, if you're going to get confused with anybody, it's a good thing to get confused 00:02:58.340 --> 00:02:59.080 with Jason Morris. 00:02:59.340 --> 00:02:59.760 You got it. 00:02:59.880 --> 00:03:00.380 You got it. 00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:01.400 That's a good place to go. 00:03:01.500 --> 00:03:06.660 But as global integration pastor with Christ Church, you know, Joey's, Joey's been blessed 00:03:06.660 --> 00:03:13.620 with a great church that has vision and understanding of how digital operates and really is, has 00:03:13.620 --> 00:03:18.420 really been quietly kind of setting the standard and really running, doing some creative things 00:03:18.420 --> 00:03:19.340 in digital space. 00:03:19.460 --> 00:03:21.380 So you can check out, what's, what's the website? 00:03:21.860 --> 00:03:23.300 Ourchristchurch.com. 00:03:23.960 --> 00:03:25.040 Ourchristchurch.com. 00:03:25.380 --> 00:03:26.400 And so check that out. 00:03:26.460 --> 00:03:29.840 But that, that's not even really the thing that we want to talk about in this conversation. 00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:31.860 That was just a commercial for Joey up at the front. 00:03:32.300 --> 00:03:37.000 Now, Joey, one of the things that I love about Joey, actually, Joey's been on the podcast 00:03:37.000 --> 00:03:38.800 maybe pre-COVID. 00:03:38.920 --> 00:03:40.660 It's been quite some time. 00:03:40.760 --> 00:03:45.660 We had him on a long ago talking about, you know, unique expressions of church. 00:03:45.780 --> 00:03:48.000 We've talked a lot about some unique expressions lately. 00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:55.560 But, but Joey historically was, was running church in a bar and so was really utilizing the online 00:03:55.560 --> 00:04:03.640 broadcast to run a, a micro location that was located at a physical bar up there in Ohio. 00:04:03.640 --> 00:04:07.660 And so maybe Joey, just even to start to kick off the conversation, why don't you tell us 00:04:07.660 --> 00:04:09.280 a little bit about that bar? 00:04:09.380 --> 00:04:14.340 Is that still going maybe over the past couple of years, how things shifted and maybe what 00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:15.620 lessons have you learned through it? 00:04:15.800 --> 00:04:20.080 I know, I think it was, it was so interesting when we first talked about this, like almost 00:04:20.080 --> 00:04:21.200 three years ago, right? 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:27.120 We're talking about the online and, and, and how the online church was impacting every church 00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:29.260 dynamics and routines. 00:04:30.500 --> 00:04:36.480 And we were talking about the house campuses and people meeting houses in, in this bar owner 00:04:36.480 --> 00:04:40.900 started conversations like, man, what it looked like to have a church in my bar. 00:04:41.080 --> 00:04:42.320 And I was like, you know what? 00:04:42.340 --> 00:04:43.100 That sounds interesting. 00:04:43.180 --> 00:04:43.780 Let's do it. 00:04:44.140 --> 00:04:48.420 So we jumped right into it and we'll try to figure it out. 00:04:48.520 --> 00:04:50.180 We, we, I'll tell you this. 00:04:50.240 --> 00:04:56.040 I think the lesson that we learned right off the bat, because we, we had a very good first 00:04:56.040 --> 00:05:04.320 year, uh, and then COVID came around and, and forces to take a break. 00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:06.840 And that was one of the best things that happens to us. 00:05:07.140 --> 00:05:13.000 The first time we launched the church, the bar, we did it in a way of pretty much replicating 00:05:13.000 --> 00:05:15.860 the experience that you have in a streaming service, right? 00:05:15.920 --> 00:05:20.740 So we're literally like broadcasting live from the auditorium. 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:26.080 So we, we had all the gear we set up in a way that we took over the entire bar sound system 00:05:26.080 --> 00:05:27.060 and TV. 00:05:27.060 --> 00:05:33.420 So we could, we could broadcast in every TV and, and, and broadcast the sound to the entire 00:05:33.420 --> 00:05:33.940 bar. 00:05:34.940 --> 00:05:37.040 But we're just streaming the services. 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:42.420 And, and, uh, we, we, what we learned was there was a big rotation of first timers. 00:05:42.900 --> 00:05:44.180 People come for the first time. 00:05:44.260 --> 00:05:45.140 They will never come back. 00:05:45.280 --> 00:05:47.320 They'll come for the first time and never come back. 00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:51.900 And the thing that we learned from it is that they were like, well, to do this here, I can 00:05:51.900 --> 00:05:52.640 do this at home. 00:05:53.760 --> 00:05:58.280 Um, and I can just sit in my house and watch it because when you watch the service, you're 00:05:58.280 --> 00:06:01.920 not talking when you're watching the service, you just pay attention to what's going on 00:06:01.920 --> 00:06:02.420 on the screen. 00:06:03.140 --> 00:06:07.260 Um, and the, you know, people don't go to the bar to just watch something. 00:06:07.260 --> 00:06:12.900 Even if you go to watch live music, which this bar offers live music, you're pretty much 00:06:12.900 --> 00:06:15.400 talking the entire time you have a live music. 00:06:15.880 --> 00:06:22.060 Well, that's what we learn going to the next, you know, post COVID back in the bar. 00:06:22.140 --> 00:06:23.700 We're like, let's just change this whole thing. 00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:28.860 And we completely flip how we do services in terms of meeting the audience needs. 00:06:29.340 --> 00:06:30.940 And that's what we did. 00:06:30.940 --> 00:06:36.960 So we, uh, we changed it from one, like three songs, like we do on the stage to one song 00:06:36.960 --> 00:06:42.720 pre-recorded on locations, uh, something that can control the environment, control the sound. 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:49.000 Uh, we pre-recorded the sermon and the message is recorded, uh, is the same message that message 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.880 that we preach in a main campus. 00:06:51.360 --> 00:06:58.340 But the difference is we stop every five, seven minutes, make a point, ask a question and put 00:06:58.340 --> 00:06:59.520 five minutes on the clock. 00:07:00.300 --> 00:07:02.000 To have the discussion live. 00:07:02.220 --> 00:07:06.000 So now you have this opportunity that you're not just listening, but you're participating 00:07:06.000 --> 00:07:08.000 in the conversation about the message. 00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:12.460 Um, and, and that's when we start experiencing like results, right? 00:07:12.540 --> 00:07:14.920 That's, that's when people are like, I want to come here and stay. 00:07:15.580 --> 00:07:17.840 Uh, and that's not where experiencing that. 00:07:17.920 --> 00:07:19.060 That we're experiencing that. 00:07:19.600 --> 00:07:24.780 Um, I, I like this, it's community-based, it's about the conversations, doesn't matter who's 00:07:24.780 --> 00:07:25.100 preaching. 00:07:25.300 --> 00:07:26.240 I just want to talk. 00:07:26.760 --> 00:07:31.540 Uh, and I, and I, and then you have the results and, and right by the bar, there's a river, 00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:33.060 Miami, little Miami river. 00:07:33.500 --> 00:07:35.140 That's where we have a baptism is now. 00:07:35.360 --> 00:07:40.300 Now we're getting people getting baptized because the experience they're having, the conversations 00:07:40.300 --> 00:07:42.620 that they're having, how they're growing spiritually. 00:07:42.620 --> 00:07:50.860 So I think in the, in the, you know, in a short answer, uh, that's what's going on with the 00:07:50.860 --> 00:07:51.100 church. 00:07:51.220 --> 00:07:54.720 The bar has been an incredible experience, uh, for sure. 00:07:54.720 --> 00:07:56.940 And, and extended out to a Wednesday night meeting. 00:07:56.940 --> 00:08:03.900 So we're not only meet on, on, um, Sunday mornings, but we're having a Wednesday nights 00:08:03.900 --> 00:08:07.980 in the basement, uh, come very formal. 00:08:08.280 --> 00:08:11.720 We're going to dig deeper into what we learn on Sunday, but still the same thing. 00:08:11.780 --> 00:08:13.200 Let's sit around and have conversations. 00:08:13.640 --> 00:08:14.940 There's no video recording. 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:15.460 There's nothing. 00:08:15.540 --> 00:08:16.540 It's just community. 00:08:16.980 --> 00:08:17.380 Let's sit down. 00:08:17.460 --> 00:08:18.960 Let's talk what's going on in your life. 00:08:19.300 --> 00:08:20.400 And we'll go from there. 00:08:20.480 --> 00:08:22.280 So that's, what's going on in the church to buy right now. 00:08:22.640 --> 00:08:23.480 That's, that's, that's beautiful. 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:29.020 Now with, uh, with the, the church in a bar, like, are you seeing, uh, people from Christ 00:08:29.020 --> 00:08:29.360 church? 00:08:29.360 --> 00:08:32.000 Are they just coming to the different microsite location? 00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:35.240 Are you seeing people from other churches come in? 00:08:35.300 --> 00:08:39.520 Like what type of person are you really starting to connect with when you're, when you're 00:08:39.520 --> 00:08:40.900 doing church in a bar now? 00:08:40.940 --> 00:08:46.880 Yeah, that is an interesting, the first round before COVID, the majority of people was from 00:08:46.880 --> 00:08:48.480 our church because we promoted that way. 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:53.380 Like we, we, we, we approach it as a church planting, say, Hey, we need a group of people 00:08:53.380 --> 00:08:56.080 to go there and start volunteering and be part of it. 00:08:56.420 --> 00:08:59.500 And is gradually that numbers are going down. 00:08:59.540 --> 00:09:01.700 Like people are like, I don't want to do this thing anymore. 00:09:01.820 --> 00:09:07.520 I don't feel like I'm getting because they're, they're expecting to have the, the big church 00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:08.180 experience. 00:09:09.360 --> 00:09:14.700 Uh, and what changed post COVID is that the number one thing that changed it post COVID is 00:09:14.700 --> 00:09:17.840 like, I'm, I became the pastor in that location. 00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:19.700 So I'm there every Sunday. 00:09:20.640 --> 00:09:21.000 Right. 00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:24.800 So they didn't have that before they didn't, they just had volunteers running it. 00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:27.600 Now I'm the pastor and I'm setting it up. 00:09:27.640 --> 00:09:33.460 I'm doing this whole dynamic that when you do in church planting, but in, around the bar 00:09:33.460 --> 00:09:41.700 we, you know, we had beers, metal signs around, well, we made metal signs, but church, the 00:09:41.700 --> 00:09:43.280 bars, Sunday, 10, 20 AM. 00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:48.320 That's the majority of the people that are attending the church right now. 00:09:48.700 --> 00:09:56.060 That's people that come Saturday nights, Friday nights, come to party, to drink, see the sign 00:09:56.060 --> 00:09:56.980 and like, do you know what? 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:58.480 I can check this out. 00:09:59.140 --> 00:10:03.920 And it's kind of interesting because right now they're the core people at the bar, the 00:10:03.920 --> 00:10:04.620 church, the bar. 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:07.160 They're my volunteer, my core volunteers. 00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:09.880 They are, they're the most faithful ones. 00:10:09.960 --> 00:10:13.700 They are so, I would say that right now the vast majority of people are people that came 00:10:13.700 --> 00:10:14.820 straight out of the bar. 00:10:15.780 --> 00:10:19.340 And, and it's, it's coming to Sunday morning service. 00:10:19.540 --> 00:10:20.220 That's beautiful. 00:10:20.340 --> 00:10:23.540 What we're seeing, I mean, once again, this is just another one of these examples, right? 00:10:23.560 --> 00:10:26.300 Where if you do something different, you reach a different person. 00:10:26.980 --> 00:10:32.520 And, uh, and you know, Joey, you're seeing that as you're doing church in a, in a bar, 00:10:32.520 --> 00:10:40.180 not, not a branded micro location of, or like a multi-site location, just copy and paste 00:10:40.180 --> 00:10:43.840 what a typical church service is, but you're re-imagining it. 00:10:43.920 --> 00:10:48.240 You're making it contextually fit more within, within the bar locale. 00:10:48.300 --> 00:10:52.880 And as a result of that, you're reaching people that, that, that the, that the buildings aren't 00:10:52.880 --> 00:10:53.420 going to reach. 00:10:53.520 --> 00:10:58.280 Well, listen, we, we can talk about church in a bar all day long, but we, I want to add 00:10:58.280 --> 00:10:59.360 another wrinkle to this. 00:10:59.740 --> 00:11:01.140 You know, Joey and I were having a conversation. 00:11:01.280 --> 00:11:04.540 I don't know, maybe somewhere June, July. 00:11:04.540 --> 00:11:08.980 And, uh, you know, I challenged Joey, like I challenged a lot of pastors. 00:11:09.540 --> 00:11:12.880 Hey man, start thinking about what you could do in virtual reality. 00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:16.140 Start thinking about what the metaverse could look like. 00:11:16.220 --> 00:11:19.820 And, uh, and so I was jumping on, on this call with Joey. 00:11:20.500 --> 00:11:23.800 Joey simply said one of these words that was life-giving to me. 00:11:23.880 --> 00:11:27.340 Hey Jeff, what do you think about starting a bar in the metaverse? 00:11:27.900 --> 00:11:30.160 Now this was intriguing to me. 00:11:30.260 --> 00:11:33.020 Well, Joey, why don't you talk a little bit about this? 00:11:33.100 --> 00:11:35.320 Like, I mean, you told me, Hey, why don't we start a bar? 00:11:35.740 --> 00:11:37.700 What, what's going through your head? 00:11:37.800 --> 00:11:43.420 How did you get to this place of even starting a bar in virtual reality? 00:11:43.660 --> 00:11:48.580 I think, you know, you got that, that, that train going because you've been talking about 00:11:48.580 --> 00:11:53.920 metaverse for a while now and you've been, you've been exposing the potential. 00:11:53.920 --> 00:12:00.140 So, you know, like most people that got interested in this, I went and got my VR set and I was 00:12:00.140 --> 00:12:02.280 like, let me check out what Jeff's talking about. 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:07.460 And I started looking at some of the churches going online, going on a, on a virtual reality. 00:12:07.460 --> 00:12:14.200 And I, the thing that impressed me the most by visiting other churches on a VR space in 00:12:14.200 --> 00:12:20.880 other locations, uh, other activities is actually to see what we see at the bar. 00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:22.960 That's people, they're completely lost. 00:12:23.820 --> 00:12:29.400 They're looking for answers and they're trying to meet people to have those conversations. 00:12:30.460 --> 00:12:35.320 And I, it hit me because that's the experience that I have in person at the bar every week. 00:12:35.700 --> 00:12:41.300 And not only on the weekends, like I, I'm, I'm not ashamed to say I, I hang out at the 00:12:41.300 --> 00:12:43.560 bar a lot because that became our location. 00:12:44.060 --> 00:12:47.280 So I'm, I'm at the bar outside Sunday, Wednesday nights. 00:12:47.280 --> 00:12:48.120 I'm the bar a lot. 00:12:48.180 --> 00:12:49.900 I was there Saturday nights meeting people. 00:12:49.900 --> 00:12:56.160 And I, you know, because I'm there, the owners introduced me to all his friends as 00:12:56.160 --> 00:12:57.720 here's the pastor of the bar. 00:12:57.860 --> 00:13:00.200 That's how they know the staff introduced me to people. 00:13:00.320 --> 00:13:01.440 Here's a pastor of the bar. 00:13:01.620 --> 00:13:03.940 So I'm known there as the pastor of the bar. 00:13:04.600 --> 00:13:07.960 And I, because of that, people actually say, Hey, talk to you. 00:13:08.020 --> 00:13:09.200 They ask questions. 00:13:09.640 --> 00:13:13.600 People in the middle of a busy bar asked me before, can you pray for me right now? 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:14.420 I'm going through this. 00:13:14.500 --> 00:13:16.180 And I got to pray for people in the middle of a bar. 00:13:17.140 --> 00:13:22.320 So looking at that experience and see what I saw in the VR, I was like, do you know what? 00:13:22.500 --> 00:13:26.340 We already know the environment in a, in, in person experience. 00:13:26.760 --> 00:13:32.680 Let's just build the same thing on a VR because it's going to be familiar for me and for other 00:13:32.680 --> 00:13:35.380 volunteers that are already involved to go in and like, let's sit in the bar. 00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:39.420 People are going to come to the bar to talk, to fellowship, to have conversations. 00:13:39.940 --> 00:13:41.560 We can have those conversations. 00:13:41.920 --> 00:13:44.180 They're not strange for us. 00:13:44.220 --> 00:13:48.000 So we're like, let's, let's try something new. 00:13:48.000 --> 00:13:49.840 That's not the regular church format. 00:13:50.280 --> 00:13:53.420 And let's go simply in a way is familiar to us. 00:13:53.540 --> 00:13:58.640 But I see the potential because people go to have those conversations and I want to have 00:13:58.640 --> 00:14:00.700 those conversations with them right there. 00:14:01.340 --> 00:14:07.780 So the, I mean, the idea here then would be to have these types of conversations, to build 00:14:07.780 --> 00:14:14.260 a bar and environment to foster those types of conversations in virtual reality, you know, 00:14:14.260 --> 00:14:18.700 and more specifically, if you, if you're aware of virtual reality, like the, the world that 00:14:18.700 --> 00:14:25.080 we're considering going into is, uh, VR chat, uh, which if you know, the podcast, I commonly 00:14:25.080 --> 00:14:26.620 call that the red light district. 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:28.600 DJ calls it the wild, wild west. 00:14:28.760 --> 00:14:33.680 Like this is the world where it's estimated that 40 to 50% of its inhabitants are having 00:14:33.680 --> 00:14:35.320 virtual sex in private rooms. 00:14:35.500 --> 00:14:39.800 Hey, so let's open up a bar, uh, so that we, we, we can talk with people. 00:14:40.260 --> 00:14:41.920 Um, you know, it's, it's interesting. 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:46.780 Like I actually, I have talked with, with Christ centered recovery, uh, organizational 00:14:46.780 --> 00:14:47.320 leaders. 00:14:47.800 --> 00:14:52.900 Um, I pitched this idea cause I'm like, Hey, I want you to, I want to know what your, what 00:14:52.900 --> 00:14:53.940 your feedback is. 00:14:53.940 --> 00:14:56.100 Like what your, what your thought is on thinking. 00:14:56.260 --> 00:14:57.520 I'm about to get like yelled at. 00:14:57.980 --> 00:15:00.480 And, uh, surprisingly I wasn't. 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:06.220 So I'm, I'm curious, you know, as, as you've, as you've thought of this, Joey, like, um, 00:15:06.660 --> 00:15:11.480 how, how much positive feedback, how much negative feedback, what have been some of the conversations, 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:16.880 uh, that, that you've received when you, when you've started thinking and talking about the 00:15:16.880 --> 00:15:19.800 idea of doing this bar in, uh, in virtual reality? 00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:24.420 I think it's kind of like in, like everything else, whatever is new, right now I'm having 00:15:24.420 --> 00:15:28.900 a hard time getting across to people, just the virtual reality alone. 00:15:28.960 --> 00:15:29.360 Right. 00:15:29.520 --> 00:15:33.280 Because again, for a lot of people, they cannot even grasp those things are real. 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:38.320 And I tell people the fact that a virtual doesn't change the fact that's real. 00:15:38.860 --> 00:15:41.020 It's real for the people that are in there. 00:15:41.300 --> 00:15:43.580 They're trying to look for answers in conversations. 00:15:44.500 --> 00:15:48.940 Um, so just like for us, when we launched the church at the bar. 00:15:49.620 --> 00:15:54.980 Our church family, it was like, it makes sense because they already know all the crazy stuff 00:15:54.980 --> 00:15:55.900 we're already doing online. 00:15:55.900 --> 00:15:56.220 Right. 00:15:56.300 --> 00:15:58.620 So it's very interesting for our church family. 00:15:58.740 --> 00:15:59.960 They're like, yeah, that sounds great. 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:05.780 Which was great to have the feedback, but church around us, they, they were very vocal 00:16:05.780 --> 00:16:10.180 about how crazy we were by putting a church at the bar. 00:16:10.640 --> 00:16:13.120 Uh, and I think that's the reactions that we get. 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:14.620 We got this very mixed reactions. 00:16:14.880 --> 00:16:18.660 The first reaction is really about this virtual reality thing. 00:16:18.720 --> 00:16:22.180 We should not get in there because it's, you should not get in there because it's not real. 00:16:23.180 --> 00:16:27.940 Um, and I, I'll tell people, I said, I'll tell you this, get your set. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:31.980 I'll hold your hand and we're going to walk together and you're going to see how real actually 00:16:31.980 --> 00:16:32.480 is. 00:16:33.260 --> 00:16:38.840 Um, but I think what people get confused, like if you're going to set up a bar in a virtual 00:16:38.840 --> 00:16:41.380 reality, people are not going to be able to drink. 00:16:41.540 --> 00:16:44.640 People are not, like I said, it's about the conversations. 00:16:45.040 --> 00:16:46.420 It's about the connections. 00:16:46.980 --> 00:16:52.400 Um, um, um, um, I think it's just like you and I had a conversation years ago about some 00:16:52.400 --> 00:16:59.380 concepts for online church and how that's so new to, to some churches and the church concept. 00:16:59.380 --> 00:17:04.980 I think we're back in the same territory right now of a VR being like, Oh man, here we go 00:17:04.980 --> 00:17:08.760 again, something new in, in people don't understand. 00:17:08.860 --> 00:17:09.840 People don't see it. 00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:17.400 Um, um, I was in Chicago just two weeks ago and I was with a friend of mine, a pastor friend 00:17:17.400 --> 00:17:22.380 of mine, and he literally set up a meeting with his staff and said, Joey, come in here 00:17:22.380 --> 00:17:23.000 and talk about this. 00:17:23.000 --> 00:17:28.700 He said, I've seen you post on, um, uh, social media, all this thing about virtual reality, 00:17:28.880 --> 00:17:29.900 metaverse and all that. 00:17:30.080 --> 00:17:31.140 Tell us all about it. 00:17:31.580 --> 00:17:35.400 And I thought it was very interesting because we just had this like two hour conversation with 00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:39.240 his staff and they're blown away by, so this thing is real. 00:17:39.360 --> 00:17:39.640 Yeah. 00:17:39.780 --> 00:17:44.240 And this pastor actually has a headset, but he has no clue about those places that you 00:17:44.240 --> 00:17:46.020 can go and meet people, have conversations. 00:17:46.020 --> 00:17:48.580 And I said, Hey, let's set up a time one Sunday, go with me. 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:50.860 We're going to walk together through those places. 00:17:50.860 --> 00:17:57.820 And so, yes, Jeff, I think, I think the reception is going to be different, different place to 00:17:57.820 --> 00:17:58.100 place. 00:17:58.200 --> 00:18:02.240 Our church family completely embraces the technology. 00:18:02.900 --> 00:18:08.280 Um, they, you know, the leadership add components to the budget so we can, can support 00:18:08.840 --> 00:18:12.500 are starting this, this approach to virtual reality. 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:19.280 But I think outside the church, it's still pretty hard for people to embrace the VR alone, 00:18:19.560 --> 00:18:24.500 much less having a church there that represents it, that have a bar that represents the church. 00:18:24.720 --> 00:18:31.180 Now, one of the things that I think makes this, this idea unique is at least in the conversations 00:18:31.180 --> 00:18:35.880 that I've had with you, unless something shifted, I mean, you're not broadcasting church services 00:18:35.880 --> 00:18:37.840 into a VR bar. 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:40.320 Is that, is that true? 00:18:40.320 --> 00:18:47.320 Like what, what, so like you're, how, how does leadership view that? 00:18:47.440 --> 00:18:52.120 Like what's, cause so much of the physical church experience and the church online experience 00:18:52.120 --> 00:18:59.080 is centered around, um, the sharing of, or the watching, the viewing, the consuming of, 00:18:59.140 --> 00:18:59.860 of a church service. 00:18:59.860 --> 00:19:03.940 But you're not, you're not doing that, or at least that's not the, the aim and the goal 00:19:03.940 --> 00:19:04.340 of this. 00:19:04.480 --> 00:19:05.480 So talk to me a little bit. 00:19:05.820 --> 00:19:06.240 No, it's not. 00:19:06.300 --> 00:19:11.500 And I think what helped is that when you go to the church, the bar in the physical location, 00:19:11.900 --> 00:19:14.580 it's a way to decentralize form. 00:19:15.580 --> 00:19:22.320 I mean, on a physical church, the bar, we're not replicating anything that we do in a, 00:19:22.320 --> 00:19:24.940 in a, in a, in a big church setting. 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:28.700 So it's completely separate, it's completely different already. 00:19:29.420 --> 00:19:34.700 So, you know, it's not weird for, for church leadership to look at like, we got to do this 00:19:34.700 --> 00:19:35.100 differently. 00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:43.520 I, I just left a meeting, um, and you know, our, our, our church is still battling with, 00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:48.580 with the impact of, of COVID in terms of in-person attendance. 00:19:49.780 --> 00:19:54.000 And I had a conversation with my staff and I just talked with the leadership today. 00:19:54.220 --> 00:20:01.700 And I said, we got to figure out a way to show our staff to how not to let the, the structure 00:20:01.700 --> 00:20:02.880 dictate the programming. 00:20:03.840 --> 00:20:05.060 We're in a big building. 00:20:05.300 --> 00:20:07.060 We have a gigantic building. 00:20:07.060 --> 00:20:11.640 That's not being filled every weekend, but we still behave like the building is full. 00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:16.580 And by doing that, sometimes we don't meet the needs, the people's needs when they come 00:20:16.580 --> 00:20:17.180 in the building. 00:20:17.760 --> 00:20:20.740 So I think it's the same thing going to a different place. 00:20:20.740 --> 00:20:25.660 If I go to the bar and I try to replicate the church service, because even, even like 00:20:25.660 --> 00:20:31.240 to the point, Jeff, that when pastors, you know, pastor that's preaching and formulate 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:34.260 the questions, I tell them, don't ask questions. 00:20:34.260 --> 00:20:39.760 Like the person's going to church for 10 years, because my audience, it's not going to respond 00:20:39.760 --> 00:20:40.700 that way at the bar. 00:20:41.040 --> 00:20:45.080 Like, don't tell them about, so when you pray to God, how do you pray about blog? 00:20:45.180 --> 00:20:46.080 No, they don't pray. 00:20:47.020 --> 00:20:52.360 So the question needs to be formatted knowing that the audience wants to learn from the Bible, 00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:58.480 but how more, like more than ever, how that actually applies to my personal life and ask 00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:03.000 me questions that make me connect the dots between the Bible teaching and my real life. 00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.060 And we make sure the questions are like that. 00:21:05.740 --> 00:21:12.400 So, I mean, we're already practicing what it looked like for us to go out of our comfort 00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.940 zone in our own buildings and build something outside that's completely different to a completely 00:21:16.940 --> 00:21:18.980 different audience in a physical space. 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:25.200 And now we're taking that to the virtual space because we got some practice there now doing 00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:25.980 this at the bar. 00:21:26.880 --> 00:21:28.840 And now we're going to have to change that again. 00:21:28.940 --> 00:21:30.080 We're going to have to tweak that again. 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:33.440 We're going to have to teach people how to have conversations they're not used to. 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:36.300 And they're going to replicate a church service. 00:21:36.700 --> 00:21:41.480 It's going to be a church service, but not a format that we're used to, meaning the model 00:21:41.480 --> 00:21:42.740 is going to have to change. 00:21:43.360 --> 00:21:46.200 Because if you're going to reach people where they are, we got to change the model. 00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:49.500 We cannot just stick with one and believe it's going to do it all. 00:21:50.020 --> 00:21:50.800 That was beautiful. 00:21:51.020 --> 00:21:51.580 I love that. 00:21:51.580 --> 00:21:56.820 I mean, you started off talking about decentralization and, hey, what we're doing 00:21:56.820 --> 00:22:00.940 here at the bar is different than what we're doing at the building, which is recognizing 00:22:00.940 --> 00:22:02.080 contextualization. 00:22:02.360 --> 00:22:09.140 If you're going to really reach a physical person at a bar, that is going to look different 00:22:09.140 --> 00:22:15.280 than the physical person that's going to attend a church building to get their spiritual questions 00:22:15.280 --> 00:22:16.320 addressed. 00:22:16.860 --> 00:22:23.500 And even building on top of that contextualization, if we're really going to engage with people 00:22:23.500 --> 00:22:29.280 in virtual reality, yes, there are churches that are being successful broadcasting their 00:22:29.280 --> 00:22:30.580 services online. 00:22:30.840 --> 00:22:32.920 And many of those pastors are my friends. 00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:38.840 And far be it from me to do disparity on that or even the people who are preaching church services 00:22:38.840 --> 00:22:39.760 in virtual reality. 00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:45.860 But what I love about this idea, Joey, is it's shared experience and it's relational. 00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:53.760 You're inviting people into a shared space for the purpose of building a relationship, building 00:22:53.760 --> 00:22:54.500 trust. 00:22:55.100 --> 00:23:03.020 And so, so much of that in a safe space in where you're not, you know, you're not prophesizing, 00:23:03.140 --> 00:23:08.660 you're not preaching, you're literally not getting behind a pulpit and going off. 00:23:08.660 --> 00:23:13.520 Like that's a, that's going to, I predict, and it's, it's, we're building it. 00:23:13.600 --> 00:23:14.400 It's an experiment, right? 00:23:14.580 --> 00:23:21.320 But the heart of this is I see that being a mentally successful way to build relations. 00:23:21.540 --> 00:23:23.240 Yes, that's, and that's the focus. 00:23:23.340 --> 00:23:25.680 I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's our call, right? 00:23:26.040 --> 00:23:30.220 It's a call to love people where they are, to have a relationship with people. 00:23:30.940 --> 00:23:36.700 And I'm probably going to quote a lot of, a mix between JMO and Dave Adamson here and 00:23:36.700 --> 00:23:42.540 a lot of stuff that we have conversations with guys that, again, we, we have been very attached 00:23:42.540 --> 00:23:46.620 for too long to a specific model, what we call church. 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:53.540 So, and it's kind of interesting because we don't even call our, our small groups to meet 00:23:53.540 --> 00:23:54.360 at homes church. 00:23:54.380 --> 00:23:56.640 We don't, we, we make sure that's very distinct, right? 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:00.860 We say, Hey, on Sunday, I go to church during the week on Tuesday nights. 00:24:00.860 --> 00:24:04.960 I go to my small group, which the reality, what's happening in that small group is the 00:24:04.960 --> 00:24:05.340 church. 00:24:06.100 --> 00:24:13.840 And, and I think being able to restore the idea that whatever I am, I am the church and 00:24:13.840 --> 00:24:15.020 we actually have that. 00:24:15.220 --> 00:24:19.960 So when we first started our house campuses, every time somebody started a house campus, 00:24:20.020 --> 00:24:23.380 they've got a t-shirt from us that says, I am the church really big in the front. 00:24:24.740 --> 00:24:29.740 And because we want to be able to understand that like, no matter where you are at, you are 00:24:29.740 --> 00:24:34.600 the church, you were, you're, you are called to, to do those things that the church is supposed 00:24:34.600 --> 00:24:39.920 to do, to love people and to, to meet people where they are and to, to lead them into a 00:24:39.920 --> 00:24:41.080 life of discipleship. 00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:43.480 And the things that do all that is relationships. 00:24:43.640 --> 00:24:47.660 The relationships is what's going to drive all those things to happen. 00:24:48.780 --> 00:24:55.060 And we, we want to make sure that happens in the contextualization of a virtual reality, because 00:24:55.060 --> 00:24:58.580 we see how that works in real life for all of us. 00:24:58.840 --> 00:24:59.240 Right. 00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:05.260 So I'm, we go to the golf course, they pair you up with somebody you, you, you never met 00:25:05.260 --> 00:25:11.540 and you start having a conversation and they dropped the F bomb a couple of times, the conversation. 00:25:11.900 --> 00:25:14.900 Well, by hole number three, they were like, so what do you do for a living? 00:25:14.980 --> 00:25:16.020 And I'm like, I'm a pastor. 00:25:17.240 --> 00:25:19.040 And they'll be like, oh man, I'm so sorry. 00:25:19.100 --> 00:25:19.720 And I'm like, you know what? 00:25:19.740 --> 00:25:20.220 Don't apologize. 00:25:21.560 --> 00:25:22.620 Just be who you are. 00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:24.120 Go ahead and be who you are. 00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:24.800 That's totally fine. 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:32.200 And just by saying things like that, man, I'm telling you, it's, it's one of those, it's 00:25:32.200 --> 00:25:34.800 one of those things that less, let people just relax. 00:25:34.800 --> 00:25:43.240 I don't know, Jeff, your audience for this podcast totally, but I was just going to take 00:25:43.240 --> 00:25:48.840 a, I was just going to be very authentic with people here is when people see me at the 00:25:48.840 --> 00:25:53.180 bar, um, I may have a glass of bourbon in front of me. 00:25:54.040 --> 00:26:00.040 And that when people like, here's the pastor's bar and they see that on my table, it, it takes 00:26:00.040 --> 00:26:05.540 the walls down because they absolutely associate that into like, oh, you're normal. 00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:10.860 And I'm not, I'm not here advocating for all the pastors to start going to bars or drinking 00:26:10.860 --> 00:26:11.960 so they can connect with people. 00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:17.220 I'm saying that contextualization matters to me because I'm doing a ministry inside that 00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:17.700 environment. 00:26:18.360 --> 00:26:23.920 So because I'm present in that environment every week for them to, I'm not just pastor's 00:26:23.920 --> 00:26:28.120 pastor that just show up Sunday morning to say, Hey, let me tell you about your spiritual 00:26:28.120 --> 00:26:28.700 life. 00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:34.060 I'm the pastor that actually do life with them during the week so they can see a real connection. 00:26:35.420 --> 00:26:42.660 So I think when, like for us, like how we translate all that into the virtual reality, how we be, 00:26:42.760 --> 00:26:51.600 how we, how we stay authentic by going to virtual reality and doing church, doing church in terms 00:26:51.600 --> 00:26:59.380 of how we be, how we be relational to people that leads them to Christ without losing our, 00:26:59.380 --> 00:27:04.640 our, our character in Christ, without losing our, our values in Christ. 00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:09.020 We don't have to lose any of those things and we still can be authentic and meet people 00:27:09.020 --> 00:27:09.480 where they are. 00:27:09.480 --> 00:27:15.300 And I think that's the challenge for every church, like how we stay authentic to who we are in 00:27:15.300 --> 00:27:20.120 Christ, but still relational to people outside the church building. 00:27:20.520 --> 00:27:20.620 Yeah. 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:21.100 So good. 00:27:21.260 --> 00:27:23.620 I mean, Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. 00:27:23.740 --> 00:27:24.220 I know, right? 00:27:24.420 --> 00:27:27.460 Church in a bar, the conversations, the bourbon on the table. 00:27:27.820 --> 00:27:32.100 Like, I don't, I mean, I don't, I don't know the legalism that's centered around that, 00:27:32.160 --> 00:27:39.560 but I got to believe that, that, that doesn't change who Jesus is, but the, the contextualization 00:27:39.560 --> 00:27:45.580 that maybe we have to do something different to reach a different type of person takes to 00:27:45.580 --> 00:27:52.420 get them to see Jesus, to get them to trust us enough to, to get to the place of that conversation 00:27:52.420 --> 00:27:52.940 of Jesus. 00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:56.960 That's, that's truly what, what I'm excited about. 00:27:57.080 --> 00:27:58.140 You know, it's, it's interesting. 00:27:59.600 --> 00:28:02.140 You know, I'm actually trying to remember, I don't know that we've had Dave, 00:28:02.140 --> 00:28:03.340 Yeah, no, no, no, we did. 00:28:03.600 --> 00:28:08.560 I did a training, um, with Dave Ferguson centered around his, his blessed practices. 00:28:08.560 --> 00:28:15.240 And, and we're actually in the process of, of, um, of writing a book, uh, with, um, uh, 00:28:15.240 --> 00:28:20.800 with Dr. John Harris from, from, um, hearts like his, that's a Facebook church on, on the 00:28:20.800 --> 00:28:23.840 idea of digital and metaverse evangelism. 00:28:23.840 --> 00:28:30.040 And it's, and it's centered around Dave Ferguson's book of, on, on blessed practices where it's, 00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:31.980 um, you know, blessed, it's the acronym. 00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:33.200 Um, begin with prayer. 00:28:33.620 --> 00:28:35.760 I'm motioning to this on YouTube. 00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:39.920 If you're watching me in real time, if you're listening, sorry, you're not getting the, but 00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:41.240 it's begin with prayer. 00:28:41.580 --> 00:28:42.820 Uh, it's listening. 00:28:43.320 --> 00:28:48.040 And you know, and it's, it's funny, like E, uh, for Dave, when he was doing this physically, 00:28:48.040 --> 00:28:48.800 it was eat. 00:28:49.420 --> 00:28:54.320 And so it was begin with prayer, listen, eat, eat with someone, share a meal. 00:28:54.640 --> 00:28:56.300 Um, and then it was serve. 00:28:56.400 --> 00:29:01.400 That person was the first S and then it would share Jesus's story as, as their, your story 00:29:01.400 --> 00:29:02.580 as, as the second S. 00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:07.940 And, uh, and so the challenge came down, Hey, can you adapt less into digital and metaverse? 00:29:07.940 --> 00:29:13.000 And, and I was, I was really excited, but that whole eat thing, I was like, I don't, I don't 00:29:13.000 --> 00:29:16.420 know that I really want to want to limit this to eating. 00:29:17.080 --> 00:29:18.560 Um, and so it was funny. 00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:22.940 We got a bunch of like digital metaverse passes around and started, you know, thinking and 00:29:22.940 --> 00:29:30.520 dreaming and talking and the idea of shared experiences quickly rose to the top where, Hey, you know 00:29:30.520 --> 00:29:34.420 what, we're, we're going to, in VR, we're going to jump into pop one together and we're going 00:29:34.420 --> 00:29:37.620 to play a game or we're going to, we're going to walk around a world together. 00:29:37.620 --> 00:29:42.680 We're going to sit around a campfire and just start to talk with people or even something 00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:48.460 as crazy as we're going to create a bar and just start to like talk, engage. 00:29:48.640 --> 00:29:53.820 Dialogue with people in these, in these virtual spaces, all of a sudden we're starting to 00:29:53.820 --> 00:30:00.720 see where that's the first, but crucial step in really trying to engage with a different 00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:07.240 type of person in, in these metaverse where yes, you, you can throw the seeds, you can scatter 00:30:07.240 --> 00:30:07.540 it. 00:30:07.880 --> 00:30:10.220 Um, and you know, some of it's going to hit thorny soil. 00:30:10.220 --> 00:30:15.140 You can walk up to people and, and, and it's going to, uh, it's going to get on the, the 00:30:15.140 --> 00:30:16.140 rocky path. 00:30:16.420 --> 00:30:21.120 Uh, but man, if you could, if you could like work the soil in advance, if you, if you could 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:25.120 create an environment where, where you're, you're building that trust, that relationship, 00:30:25.120 --> 00:30:29.200 you're, you're pre tilling the soil, you're getting it stirred up a little bit. 00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:33.420 So when that seed is, is cast, it falls into the moisture there. 00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:38.980 Uh, I mean, I'm really like digging this analogy, but the truth is though, that man, you can do 00:30:38.980 --> 00:30:45.100 a lot, we can reach and connect with a different type of person through doing something unique 00:30:45.100 --> 00:30:45.840 like this. 00:30:45.840 --> 00:30:46.560 It is. 00:30:46.700 --> 00:30:50.420 And I think it goes back, you just, you just hit a great point of the, the trust. 00:30:51.360 --> 00:30:57.400 We, we try to really, you know, get people to understand the gospel. 00:30:57.620 --> 00:31:03.640 We want to be able to accept the gospel, but there's a trust issue because they don't trust 00:31:03.640 --> 00:31:04.620 us, right? 00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:06.620 They don't trust the church as it is. 00:31:06.620 --> 00:31:07.400 It just don't. 00:31:07.820 --> 00:31:11.200 So now we have to go in and build the relationship first. 00:31:11.700 --> 00:31:16.740 And after we build the relationship, we, we, we got the door open to him have those conversations. 00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:22.820 That's what has been so clear to me, uh, by, by having this opportunity to be at the bar 00:31:22.820 --> 00:31:31.140 and meeting people every Sunday, this, just this, you know, this past Sunday, um, we had 00:31:31.140 --> 00:31:33.720 this lady come in and, and here's what she said. 00:31:34.260 --> 00:31:36.300 I'm coming to church for the very first time. 00:31:36.380 --> 00:31:41.120 That's her first time ever walking in the church and her first experience is in a bar. 00:31:41.900 --> 00:31:47.600 That's so, and then to me, it's like, okay, I just want to talk to you, right? 00:31:47.600 --> 00:31:50.240 Like what caused you to come and walk in here? 00:31:50.380 --> 00:31:56.020 And then, and then we'll have this great conversation, uh, in the, in the, in the, again, I'm trying 00:31:56.020 --> 00:32:01.960 to just listen, I'm asking questions and she, she's talking and she's talking and she's expressing 00:32:01.960 --> 00:32:03.460 and I just asking questions. 00:32:03.540 --> 00:32:07.620 I just want to tell me your story, tell me how you got in here. 00:32:07.620 --> 00:32:13.220 And, and it's interesting that throughout of that, it starts to build just in the one 00:32:13.220 --> 00:32:17.340 meeting, it starts to build, it's not totally built, it starts to build that trust because 00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:19.660 I'm really interested in her life. 00:32:20.220 --> 00:32:23.540 Uh, and then she started, you know, she asked a few questions around, I'm talking about my 00:32:23.540 --> 00:32:23.940 family. 00:32:23.940 --> 00:32:25.560 I'm talking about the things I do in life. 00:32:25.560 --> 00:32:33.420 And they, so we are having a conversation that has very little to do, you know, in a moment 00:32:33.420 --> 00:32:40.880 with the theory of the Bible or the scripture at the moment. 00:32:40.960 --> 00:32:46.680 We're not talking about those things, but we're, we're, we're doing exactly what Jesus did. 00:32:46.680 --> 00:32:55.160 That was just go in and contextualize people's lives into what he's teaching and he's talking. 00:32:55.640 --> 00:33:00.960 Uh, and, and, and I think, man, we got so much there to offer as a church. 00:33:00.960 --> 00:33:07.080 If you can just learn to have those conversations, uh, and allow people to just trust you. 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:10.540 Like allow the time you got to give time. 00:33:10.540 --> 00:33:14.660 I like, uh, you know, Jason Morris is so strong at that. 00:33:14.720 --> 00:33:15.960 He's talking about a lot about time. 00:33:15.960 --> 00:33:20.400 Like that's their, that's our currency in these environments. 00:33:20.400 --> 00:33:21.400 It's just time. 00:33:21.400 --> 00:33:28.320 It's not, you know, we don't, we don't need to build a five, six, seven, $20 million building 00:33:28.320 --> 00:33:30.100 to reach people here. 00:33:30.100 --> 00:33:35.900 We're talking about a $300 red headset and the ability to just go in and start having 00:33:35.900 --> 00:33:41.960 these conversations, I mean, whatever way you want to build this thing, uh, the investment 00:33:41.960 --> 00:33:48.640 that you do financially is not as much as you're going to make in time in your time, dedicating 00:33:48.640 --> 00:33:51.280 into connecting and meeting and talking to people. 00:33:51.780 --> 00:33:53.180 Yeah, that's, that's crucial. 00:33:53.380 --> 00:33:56.880 The, the, the time aspects and, you know, it's, it's funny. 00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:00.980 I just, I talk with people all the time that are interested in this metaverse stuff and 00:34:00.980 --> 00:34:04.980 that it's like, put the headset on, go up to somebody and start a conversation. 00:34:05.320 --> 00:34:05.720 Yeah. 00:34:05.720 --> 00:34:05.960 Okay. 00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:10.980 You can play a pop one with, with some people you can, uh, you know, jump in, in beat saber 00:34:10.980 --> 00:34:12.440 with, with somebody you don't know. 00:34:12.440 --> 00:34:14.640 Like, yeah, yeah, definitely you explore those spaces. 00:34:14.640 --> 00:34:15.360 It's, it's fun. 00:34:15.420 --> 00:34:15.840 It's new. 00:34:16.000 --> 00:34:23.160 But until you sit down at that campfire, until you walk into a rec room, dorm room with somebody, 00:34:23.160 --> 00:34:30.100 um, you know, until you walk into the bar and, and, and, and have a conversation, like you're 00:34:30.100 --> 00:34:38.320 not, you're not going to really understand culturally what it is and, and, and the, what community 00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:40.380 looks like in, in these spaces. 00:34:40.560 --> 00:34:43.820 And, uh, you know, for many pastors that are out there, it's funny. 00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:49.100 I was just writing, uh, on this maybe earlier this morning, but, uh, for many pastors out 00:34:49.100 --> 00:34:52.700 there, like they need to embrace the idea. 00:34:52.840 --> 00:34:54.840 They need to look at that community. 00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:59.260 They need to walk around, um, and, and find their person of peace. 00:34:59.300 --> 00:35:04.760 They need to prayer walk the metaverse as, as crazy as it sounds, but start to, to really 00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:06.860 look at the potential of what's here. 00:35:07.140 --> 00:35:12.060 Well, I just, and I look at, you know, we're, we were in Kansas city just, you know, months 00:35:12.060 --> 00:35:14.540 ago, having this first conversation. 00:35:15.000 --> 00:35:19.740 And I, I, first of all, pastors out there is going to say, I don't have time for this. 00:35:20.860 --> 00:35:22.800 I, and I understand that, right? 00:35:23.040 --> 00:35:29.480 I'm in a, in a, in a physical church building here, I'm in charge of our online ministry. 00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:31.080 I'm in charge of communications. 00:35:31.480 --> 00:35:33.360 I'm in charge of family ministries. 00:35:33.540 --> 00:35:35.480 I'm in charge of it. 00:35:36.700 --> 00:35:40.060 Uh, I'm in charge of a weekend experience like production and the worship. 00:35:41.280 --> 00:35:45.600 I got a great staff, but I manage all the staff doing all that. 00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:52.220 I got a beautiful family, got wives, two boys, uh, 16 and 13 years old. 00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:53.060 Very busy. 00:35:53.160 --> 00:35:54.160 They keep me very busy. 00:35:54.760 --> 00:35:59.280 They do all this, the right, you know, you say, how do you find time to it? 00:35:59.480 --> 00:36:00.740 You find time to it. 00:36:01.020 --> 00:36:06.320 Like, trust me, you'll find time to it because it's worth it because it's worth it. 00:36:06.320 --> 00:36:11.200 When you walk in there and you see people in need in America today, the last time I look 00:36:11.200 --> 00:36:13.760 at it, there are millions of Americans. 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:15.500 I'm not even talking about the whole globe. 00:36:15.820 --> 00:36:20.460 I'm talking millions of Americans daily on those devices. 00:36:21.520 --> 00:36:24.500 So we can argue all day long. 00:36:24.700 --> 00:36:25.100 Yeah. 00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:26.700 I don't need to get involved in this. 00:36:26.800 --> 00:36:28.020 I don't need to get in there. 00:36:28.360 --> 00:36:29.500 This is just a fever. 00:36:29.720 --> 00:36:30.840 It's going to go away. 00:36:31.520 --> 00:36:35.220 You can, we can make all the arguments should not go in there, or we can actually like, 00:36:35.300 --> 00:36:35.620 you know what? 00:36:35.620 --> 00:36:38.460 Let me go check this out because there's an opportunity here. 00:36:39.140 --> 00:36:42.460 And I think, you know, the church, I wish the churches would look at this way. 00:36:42.640 --> 00:36:44.260 I wish pastors would start looking at. 00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:45.540 There's an opportunity. 00:36:45.940 --> 00:36:52.160 The thing that really hit me, Jeff, I'm already like a first early adopter from the moment that 00:36:52.160 --> 00:36:52.680 we talked. 00:36:53.440 --> 00:37:00.500 But going back to Kansas City meeting, when we talking to these churches, it was the first 00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:01.980 week of vacation, school vacation. 00:37:01.980 --> 00:37:04.120 So I told my oldest, say, Hey, just get in the car. 00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:06.500 Let's, let's, let's do a road trip together. 00:37:06.500 --> 00:37:08.060 Let's go, go with me in this meeting. 00:37:09.240 --> 00:37:10.420 And he's sitting there. 00:37:10.440 --> 00:37:11.160 He's just listening. 00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:14.880 He's on his own iPhone doing his thing. 00:37:14.900 --> 00:37:15.640 And he's listening. 00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:17.860 And it's amazing. 00:37:17.960 --> 00:37:21.240 The conversations we had later, he listened to everything. 00:37:21.760 --> 00:37:23.820 He picked his multitasking. 00:37:24.240 --> 00:37:26.500 He's doing, but he, he captured everything. 00:37:27.040 --> 00:37:28.180 That's the generation. 00:37:28.340 --> 00:37:33.180 He actually, this week is like, um, are you going to Houston? 00:37:33.360 --> 00:37:35.600 Can I, I mean, he knew he knows I'm going to Houston. 00:37:35.740 --> 00:37:37.440 I'm going, so he's like, can I go with you? 00:37:38.020 --> 00:37:43.000 And cause I like the conversation again, that's another, to me, it was a sign like that's 00:37:43.000 --> 00:37:48.820 the generation that's coming that we can prepare them to be disciple makers through this technology, 00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:54.420 because that's going to be part of their lives is there's no way to skate that it's 00:37:54.420 --> 00:37:55.140 going to happen. 00:37:55.600 --> 00:37:57.020 So it's already happening. 00:37:57.080 --> 00:37:58.340 It's already part of their life. 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:04.420 So when I look at all those things, I'm thinking, yeah, we can let that go. 00:38:04.480 --> 00:38:09.120 We can, we don't have to embrace this opportunity, but the question that I would ask every pastor 00:38:09.120 --> 00:38:12.520 is what are we losing by not going there? 00:38:13.380 --> 00:38:19.600 What is the kingdom losing by not taking them up, by not looking at this opportunity to meet 00:38:19.600 --> 00:38:23.200 people where they are, because they're by the millions their daily. 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:25.120 So that's, to me, that's the challenge. 00:38:25.220 --> 00:38:26.060 That's what hit me. 00:38:26.700 --> 00:38:31.660 It's like, I don't think it's worth letting go the opportunity to be in the environment 00:38:31.660 --> 00:38:34.620 that I can meet millions of people and have the conversations. 00:38:34.620 --> 00:38:40.400 At the end of the day, it's the millions of people just tell us the potential. 00:38:41.020 --> 00:38:43.020 This is still a one-on-one ministry. 00:38:44.720 --> 00:38:50.420 Just like with my next door neighbor in my house, virtual online, it comes down to one-on-one 00:38:50.420 --> 00:38:50.760 ministry. 00:38:50.900 --> 00:38:52.100 We're going to meet people one at a time. 00:38:52.160 --> 00:38:53.760 We're going to minister to them one at a time. 00:38:53.820 --> 00:38:55.640 We're going to impact their lives one at a time. 00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:57.920 But they're by the millions. 00:38:58.040 --> 00:39:01.000 So we need an army of pastors to come and say, let's do this thing. 00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:07.180 And that's really the heart of, of like multiplying this idea, training, you know, on blessed practices 00:39:07.180 --> 00:39:11.920 or other systems and really starting to like equip because, because you're right. 00:39:12.000 --> 00:39:14.400 It's, it's not one to millions. 00:39:14.400 --> 00:39:16.180 It's one to few. 00:39:16.360 --> 00:39:22.040 And if we, if we, the church who really understand the potential of the metaverse are lots of small 00:39:22.040 --> 00:39:24.740 conversations and not, not mega conversations. 00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:27.000 It's not a microphone, it's a whisper. 00:39:27.980 --> 00:39:33.040 I, you know, and that's really a lot of, I think the, the tension of, of today's church 00:39:33.040 --> 00:39:38.880 is because they're not, they're looking at the metaverse, either discrediting it or seeing 00:39:38.880 --> 00:39:45.580 it as another way to, to megaphone something in front of a whole lot of people and, and missing 00:39:45.580 --> 00:39:49.400 the opportunities to build that trust on an individual level. 00:39:49.580 --> 00:39:50.740 That's, that's so good. 00:39:51.080 --> 00:39:57.020 Well, Hey, Hey, listen, we're, we are championing this, this idea of, of, of, of the metaverse. 00:39:57.120 --> 00:39:58.040 We want to open a bar. 00:39:58.260 --> 00:40:01.540 We want to be, be a church in a, in a virtual reality bar. 00:40:01.660 --> 00:40:03.980 And so here, here's, here's what we're doing. 00:40:04.120 --> 00:40:07.860 I actually, I built a slide deck and then I bought a domain name and then I put the two 00:40:07.860 --> 00:40:08.240 together. 00:40:08.380 --> 00:40:13.780 And so you can go right now, uh, to church in a VR bar.com. 00:40:14.180 --> 00:40:15.440 Uh, and so that exists. 00:40:15.640 --> 00:40:18.900 There's more information, uh, there on, on what we're trying to do. 00:40:19.080 --> 00:40:25.260 The reality is, is that we're, we're trying to partner with churches, uh, to build the, 00:40:25.260 --> 00:40:29.260 uh, minuscule amount of funds necessary to, to put this thing together. 00:40:29.420 --> 00:40:34.560 And we're hoping to partner with churches, uh, that are, uh, that are comfortable, that 00:40:34.560 --> 00:40:39.500 are familiar, that want to be conversational in this space. 00:40:39.760 --> 00:40:44.060 Um, once again, we're not, we're not launching a, a sports virtual reality bar. 00:40:44.060 --> 00:40:48.520 That's going to have 47 different TVs scattered around for you to broadcast the church services. 00:40:48.520 --> 00:40:50.480 That's not what we're trying to do. 00:40:50.640 --> 00:40:57.100 Nor do we want to see like sermons happen, uh, one man or woman preaching on stage. 00:40:57.520 --> 00:40:59.400 Uh, we want the DJ to play some music. 00:40:59.820 --> 00:41:04.640 Uh, we want the bartender to be relational, uh, and we're looking for people to be part 00:41:04.640 --> 00:41:08.460 of the shared experiences, building relationships with others in the space. 00:41:08.640 --> 00:41:13.000 And so that's our hope, uh, for the church and to be our bar. 00:41:13.080 --> 00:41:19.380 And we're looking to partner with churches and with individuals that, that want to be part 00:41:19.380 --> 00:41:19.720 of this. 00:41:19.720 --> 00:41:27.040 So check out churchinthevrbar.com for more information on, on this and other, uh, initiatives 00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:32.240 and what's, you know, before I shift gears on things, man, Joey, just any, any thoughts 00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:33.700 on that church in the VR bar? 00:41:34.060 --> 00:41:35.340 Man, that's, I think that's fantastic. 00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:39.820 And I think I, again, I want to encourage people, we are not trying to do this. 00:41:39.860 --> 00:41:41.120 This doesn't have to be my thing. 00:41:41.660 --> 00:41:47.720 First of all, what I like about this opportunity is that we can actually work together with many 00:41:47.720 --> 00:41:51.600 different churches in, in participating in this. 00:41:51.680 --> 00:41:53.940 Cause again, it, this thing is 24 seven, right? 00:41:54.000 --> 00:41:58.300 I mean, we, so we got people from everywhere to participate, to join in. 00:41:58.300 --> 00:42:00.780 And I, I love the idea of us doing this together. 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:07.780 So I, I really appreciate all the effort and time you're putting into this, Jeff, and open 00:42:07.780 --> 00:42:10.620 up doors for people to go and understand and explore. 00:42:10.620 --> 00:42:13.040 And I'm, I even make myself available to people. 00:42:13.040 --> 00:42:14.540 Like I want to talk more about this. 00:42:14.540 --> 00:42:16.100 I want to understand the whole bar dynamic. 00:42:16.320 --> 00:42:19.720 I absolutely, uh, we can set up a time we can talk. 00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:23.100 Um, but let's, let's do something crazy here. 00:42:23.100 --> 00:42:25.700 Like are we, let's do something crazy. 00:42:26.240 --> 00:42:29.720 Let's just build a barn of your environment in the metaverse. 00:42:29.780 --> 00:42:30.940 And let's just go for it. 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:32.380 Let's go meet people and see what happened. 00:42:33.220 --> 00:42:37.000 Um, I'm telling you in the, in the, in the in person experience has been amazing. 00:42:37.300 --> 00:42:37.700 Fantastic. 00:42:38.220 --> 00:42:39.440 It's totally worth it. 00:42:39.560 --> 00:42:43.280 And I don't think it's going to be that much different when we jump into the metaverse, 00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:44.420 uh, environment. 00:42:44.660 --> 00:42:45.060 Yeah. 00:42:45.220 --> 00:42:49.140 And just even transparently, let me, let me, let me put, put some numbers on this. 00:42:49.240 --> 00:42:53.760 We've, I've, I've sat with, uh, with my world building team here, uh, through the church 00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:54.180 digital. 00:42:54.180 --> 00:42:57.200 And, uh, I mean, quote, quotes on this thing are like $12,000. 00:42:57.880 --> 00:43:06.080 And, uh, and so we're, we're trying to raise, uh, a portion of that, um, through other churches, 00:43:06.220 --> 00:43:10.440 you know, Joey's and, uh, Christ community churches is willing to contribute some. 00:43:10.780 --> 00:43:14.160 And, uh, but we're just trying to raise other with that as well. 00:43:14.200 --> 00:43:17.740 If you want to reach out to me directly, we can talk specific numbers. 00:43:17.920 --> 00:43:19.980 So there is a financial component to this. 00:43:20.020 --> 00:43:24.760 There's also the reality that a VR bar should be open seven days a week, if not 24 hours a 00:43:24.760 --> 00:43:25.160 day. 00:43:25.260 --> 00:43:27.140 And what does that look like? 00:43:27.180 --> 00:43:30.480 Well, that's going to be bigger than one individual church. 00:43:30.720 --> 00:43:36.040 And so my, my hope is here, uh, through digital church network that, that we can try to find 00:43:36.040 --> 00:43:36.880 some friends on mission. 00:43:37.360 --> 00:43:43.740 Uh, so maybe, uh, some other churches and individuals and organizations that a have financial vision for 00:43:43.740 --> 00:43:49.900 this, but be also maybe want to be part of a unique experiment to try to reach a different 00:43:49.900 --> 00:43:54.260 type of person, uh, through conversational approaches in virtual reality. 00:43:54.260 --> 00:44:00.380 And so that's, that's the hope here, uh, with church in a VR bar is to meet these unique 00:44:00.380 --> 00:44:06.220 people, uh, but to also find like-minded individuals that want to give a shot experiment and see what 00:44:06.220 --> 00:44:11.260 it's like, uh, to maybe engage differently to reach this different type of person. 00:44:11.260 --> 00:44:18.120 So for, for more information, you can check out church in a VR bar.com. 00:44:18.420 --> 00:44:21.540 And that'll get you to more information here real quick. 00:44:21.740 --> 00:44:23.300 Now it was, it was interesting. 00:44:23.540 --> 00:44:27.700 Um, as I've talked about this with some churches, a lot of churches are excited. 00:44:28.100 --> 00:44:29.460 Uh, some churches are excited. 00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:30.180 I should say it that way. 00:44:30.180 --> 00:44:34.660 Some churches, you know, to be honest, they're, they're a little uncomfortable with, uh, with 00:44:34.660 --> 00:44:37.580 the bar aspect that that's, you know, maybe a little too edgy. 00:44:37.860 --> 00:44:39.220 Virtual reality is edgy. 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:40.040 Bar is edgy. 00:44:40.120 --> 00:44:42.380 Put the two ideas together in VR chat. 00:44:42.380 --> 00:44:46.940 Like there's a whole bunch of, there's a whole bunch of edgy, you know, and that uncomfortability 00:44:46.940 --> 00:44:49.140 that that's, that's not a bad thing. 00:44:49.420 --> 00:44:51.700 Uh, for, for some of you, maybe it is too aggressive. 00:44:51.700 --> 00:44:56.600 I actually, I had, um, I had one of metaverse pastor, uh, pulled me aside and was like, Hey 00:44:56.600 --> 00:45:02.560 Jeff, um, instead of a bar, why don't you do a coffee house and like a, like a virtual 00:45:02.560 --> 00:45:05.580 reality coffee house in, in VR chat. 00:45:05.780 --> 00:45:08.840 And my response was, that's actually an excellent idea. 00:45:09.060 --> 00:45:17.500 Like I could almost see creating a, um, several different shared experience environments in 00:45:17.500 --> 00:45:21.120 virtual reality designed with this conversational approach. 00:45:21.120 --> 00:45:25.060 Like, I don't think a, a VR coffee house is, is that far away. 00:45:25.060 --> 00:45:30.280 And to be honest, uh, you know, a beer with a foam top is probably not that far away from 00:45:30.280 --> 00:45:30.760 a latte. 00:45:31.160 --> 00:45:34.700 You just got to maybe adjust some of the coloration in the glass. 00:45:34.700 --> 00:45:39.100 Like I got, I got to think the world builders probably maybe a step ahead to get to that, 00:45:39.160 --> 00:45:40.280 that coffee house as well. 00:45:40.280 --> 00:45:47.060 But I do, I'm excited about this opportunity, but I also see vision where maybe other opportunities 00:45:47.500 --> 00:45:54.760 will open up and we can start to create more of, of these shared experiences as we're going. 00:45:54.980 --> 00:45:56.400 So awesome. 00:45:56.400 --> 00:46:00.300 I just like the idea of churches working together. 00:46:00.460 --> 00:46:05.760 We talked about this before, you know, we sometimes experience some type of a, some sense 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:11.900 of a competition between churches in a physical space, but we don't experience that in an online 00:46:11.900 --> 00:46:14.040 environment or even a VR environment. 00:46:14.040 --> 00:46:15.660 You see more churches coming together. 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:16.760 So I like the idea. 00:46:17.480 --> 00:46:19.520 That's why I like the idea of churches coming together. 00:46:19.640 --> 00:46:23.760 That was, we can just, you know, share this experience and then we can, you know, it would 00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:26.600 be amazing for churches to come together and build a bar. 00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:29.840 And then six months from now, the same church comes together. 00:46:29.900 --> 00:46:31.340 So now let's open something else. 00:46:31.720 --> 00:46:36.540 And let's just expand this thing and let's just build this ministry like for the kingdom 00:46:36.540 --> 00:46:39.440 and see how far we can go with this. 00:46:39.540 --> 00:46:41.120 Let's just embrace and see how far it goes. 00:46:41.200 --> 00:46:42.380 Well, I like the idea though. 00:46:42.900 --> 00:46:44.760 We've, we've talked about this as well. 00:46:44.960 --> 00:46:46.980 You know, it's, it's easy to look at this. 00:46:48.080 --> 00:46:51.920 Listen, you want to have a conversation about the ecclesiology of what we're doing and whether 00:46:51.920 --> 00:46:55.460 or not it's a church or not a church, what it's going to look like over time. 00:46:55.780 --> 00:46:59.500 You know what you're, that's a conversation worth having. 00:46:59.680 --> 00:47:03.600 But the result of that conversation does not dictate whether or not we should be doing 00:47:03.600 --> 00:47:04.440 what we're doing. 00:47:04.760 --> 00:47:09.060 Like to lean into the ecclesiology, should we actually be calling this a church? 00:47:09.400 --> 00:47:13.200 Should we be calling it a mission field, a missional opportunity? 00:47:13.620 --> 00:47:17.660 Like we, we can debate that, that conversation all day long. 00:47:17.660 --> 00:47:23.300 And to be honest, I'm not dying on the field of whether or not it's, it's a church or not. 00:47:23.400 --> 00:47:28.480 But what, what I would say is that while the ecclesiological conversations need to be 00:47:28.480 --> 00:47:34.320 happening, uh, the missiological conversations, whether or not this is a mission field that 00:47:34.320 --> 00:47:37.680 is worthy of our time, there's no conversation, Senator O'Meara. 00:47:37.680 --> 00:47:39.220 The answer is yes. 00:47:39.720 --> 00:47:45.760 Um, leaning into the, the missiological implications, the, the missiology of, of what we're doing 00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:50.440 of to try to reach these different people that the building are not reaching by utilizing 00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:51.980 virtual reality in a new way. 00:47:52.080 --> 00:47:54.400 Like there, there, that's not questionable. 00:47:54.620 --> 00:47:56.260 The answer is go now. 00:47:56.460 --> 00:48:01.840 And so we would, I would love conversations with organizations that are wanting to go that 00:48:01.840 --> 00:48:06.600 route through VR church in a bar, VR coffee shopping, uh, whatever. 00:48:06.860 --> 00:48:10.980 I don't, I don't even know what everything rolls out, but at the heart of this, like, let's, 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:17.020 let's figure out how to do something different with this metaverse technology to reach a different 00:48:17.020 --> 00:48:17.640 type of person. 00:48:17.640 --> 00:48:21.460 And the goal is not to just be different. 00:48:21.920 --> 00:48:26.460 It's to the end of the day, can it reach me, really reach people for God through it. 00:48:26.620 --> 00:48:28.160 That's, that's, that's the goal. 00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:35.000 So the end of the day is, this is really not about the, how, how fun, how cool, how different 00:48:35.000 --> 00:48:41.380 this is, but it's like, you know, as much as I love technology, some of the steps I see 00:48:41.380 --> 00:48:48.180 online and in the VR is like crazy that the action is happening, but I never, it never crossed 00:48:48.180 --> 00:48:54.020 my mind in my wildest dreams that I would spend my Sunday mornings in a bar and I would be 00:48:54.020 --> 00:49:00.400 meeting people and talking about Jesus and, and baptizing people out of a meeting that 00:49:00.400 --> 00:49:03.260 we call church that happens inside of bars in the morning. 00:49:03.920 --> 00:49:10.200 So that's, you know, I think we just got to be a little bit open to the something new. 00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:15.320 And I think we got to be this much open to the overall goal and mission. 00:49:16.360 --> 00:49:21.140 And if we can just keep the mission as a big picture, I think we're going to get there 00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:25.320 together, I think, you know, just a little bit of like, okay, I'm going to, I can, I can, 00:49:25.320 --> 00:49:30.380 I can give a little bit of an openness to the difference, but here's the big mission 00:49:30.380 --> 00:49:32.120 and we don't deviate from it. 00:49:32.680 --> 00:49:39.380 And that's the thing about this, this, this, this, um, this venture that we're in, if we 00:49:39.380 --> 00:49:46.920 can call it this way with the church, the bar and the VR is that is it's, we're never 00:49:46.920 --> 00:49:48.380 going to deviate from the mission. 00:49:49.260 --> 00:49:52.620 We're never going to, we're going to, that's always going to be there. 00:49:53.100 --> 00:49:55.000 That's, we're never going to go off of that. 00:49:55.360 --> 00:49:55.760 Well said. 00:49:55.860 --> 00:49:58.520 Don't deviate from, from that mission. 00:49:58.700 --> 00:49:59.040 Awesome. 00:49:59.600 --> 00:50:03.460 Well, hey, Joey, as, as we're landing the plane here, um, any, any closing thoughts? 00:50:03.640 --> 00:50:05.620 Man, I, I just want to appreciate your time. 00:50:05.680 --> 00:50:08.780 And I, I think we're, I think we're living some amazing times. 00:50:09.540 --> 00:50:15.220 Um, and, and, you know, a few years ago I thought, oh, we're going to land on this online 00:50:15.220 --> 00:50:15.860 church thing. 00:50:15.920 --> 00:50:16.780 It's going to be awesome. 00:50:17.160 --> 00:50:24.900 And that's one thing, Jeff, I, a final thought, pastors listening to these church leaders, this 00:50:24.900 --> 00:50:26.840 is not your next online church. 00:50:27.520 --> 00:50:30.420 This is another layer of ministry in your church. 00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:36.760 And I hope that does not create another sense of desperation for you, but I'm saying you got 00:50:36.760 --> 00:50:40.260 young people in your church that already has the, the, the VR. 00:50:40.460 --> 00:50:44.680 You got people in your church, not just the young, all ages, they already got the device 00:50:44.680 --> 00:50:48.460 waiting for an opportunity to know what to do with it besides playing games. 00:50:49.340 --> 00:50:53.280 But you're going to, you're going to continue to minister to people through online church. 00:50:53.740 --> 00:50:55.060 The online church is not going to go away. 00:50:55.100 --> 00:50:56.960 Like the physical church is not going to go away. 00:50:57.380 --> 00:51:01.300 We just got another layer of opportunities to reach people. 00:51:01.620 --> 00:51:07.180 But it is very missional and, and it's worth doing. 00:51:07.480 --> 00:51:12.980 So I, I really encourage pastors to just like, give it a chance to just learn more about it. 00:51:13.020 --> 00:51:14.120 Just go learn more about it. 00:51:14.160 --> 00:51:14.960 Just learn more. 00:51:15.040 --> 00:51:17.020 Just explore the possibilities. 00:51:17.220 --> 00:51:17.980 Talk to people. 00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:19.740 Talk to Jeff. 00:51:20.000 --> 00:51:21.280 Ask questions. 00:51:21.860 --> 00:51:28.900 Bring more people into the conversation and see how this can actually fit into the mission 00:51:28.900 --> 00:51:30.380 of your local church. 00:51:30.840 --> 00:51:35.620 You know, we talk about online church, be an extension of the local church, be an extension 00:51:35.620 --> 00:51:36.600 of the physical church. 00:51:36.660 --> 00:51:38.960 And here's another layer to that extension. 00:51:39.580 --> 00:51:40.680 That's the VR. 00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:42.740 And I, I think I'm excited about it. 00:51:42.880 --> 00:51:44.080 How God's going to use this. 00:51:44.500 --> 00:51:44.680 Yes. 00:51:44.820 --> 00:51:46.240 Very, very much so. 00:51:46.520 --> 00:51:52.360 Pastor, church person, young person, lean in, ask questions. 00:51:52.700 --> 00:51:56.640 Yeah, you know, it was, it was funny just last week we had a podcast, maybe it was two weeks 00:51:56.640 --> 00:51:56.860 ago. 00:51:56.960 --> 00:52:03.520 We did a podcast with, with Seacoast, which is a mega, huge mega church, multi-site church. 00:52:03.660 --> 00:52:05.200 And you know what Seacoast did? 00:52:05.720 --> 00:52:09.600 They listened to the crazy 20 year old and they actually experimented off what the 20 year 00:52:09.600 --> 00:52:10.300 old thought was. 00:52:10.420 --> 00:52:10.940 You know what? 00:52:11.300 --> 00:52:14.100 They're reaching thousands of people as a result of it. 00:52:14.140 --> 00:52:14.520 Go back. 00:52:14.640 --> 00:52:17.120 We'll put a link in the show notes to that episode. 00:52:17.120 --> 00:52:22.160 But the reality is, is that you've got people with some crazy ideas and rather than discrediting 00:52:22.160 --> 00:52:27.100 them and ignoring them because it doesn't fit within the physical paradigm, maybe, maybe 00:52:27.100 --> 00:52:28.400 we should experiment on it. 00:52:28.820 --> 00:52:32.520 Maybe you should invest in them to the point where you trust them spiritually and then give 00:52:32.520 --> 00:52:35.340 them the little resources that are necessary to do it. 00:52:35.760 --> 00:52:43.120 Seacoast has invested $0 and 0 cents into a 20 year old, into the idea, the missional imagination 00:52:43.120 --> 00:52:44.480 of a 20 year old. 00:52:44.560 --> 00:52:46.220 And as a result of it, they're reaching thousands. 00:52:46.380 --> 00:52:51.240 What we're talking about here is, is not, you're not going to break the bank on this. 00:52:51.440 --> 00:52:57.480 I guarantee every one of your physical campuses is a hundred X more expensive than the stuff 00:52:57.480 --> 00:53:02.340 that we're, we're talking about doing in this space, but maybe just maybe the opportunity 00:53:02.340 --> 00:53:05.420 to reach a different person utilizing this stuff. 00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:08.560 Um, maybe there's a way to do this. 00:53:08.840 --> 00:53:15.720 Um, I don't know if you're more interested in the experiment, uh, check out church in a VR 00:53:15.720 --> 00:53:19.940 bar.com and would love to connect with you. 00:53:20.060 --> 00:53:23.820 Hey, Joey, man, it's, it's been great to hang out with you. 00:53:23.820 --> 00:53:29.820 Uh, looking forward to looking forward to Houston coming up in, uh, in, in a, in a little bit 00:53:29.820 --> 00:53:33.160 and, uh, for, for wherever the Lord leads. 00:53:33.300 --> 00:53:35.360 So thanks for jumping on here, man. 00:53:35.700 --> 00:53:36.420 Excited about it. 00:53:36.820 --> 00:53:37.580 Thank you, Jeff. 00:53:37.640 --> 00:53:38.520 Appreciate your time. 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.080 Awesome. 00:53:39.160 --> 00:53:43.280 For Joey, this is Jeff with the church, digital, digital church network, leadership network, 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:46.240 new thing network, and whatever else we can attach the word network to. 00:53:46.460 --> 00:53:49.600 Thanks for jumping on the podcast and, uh, we'll see you next time on the show. 00:53:50.240 --> 00:53:50.780 Y'all have a good day.