WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:22.980
 And so, you know, it's just one of those things where I would say no question by 2030, you're going to see, and I'm not saying I know like I have a crystal ball, I just feel abundantly confident that by 2030, based on data, based on the things that I know are being developed, that you're going to see individuals engaging with this technology regularly.

00:00:23.280 --> 00:00:37.620
 You'll see institutions having fully adjusted their infrastructure to handle it. And long before 2030, countries will have adjusted international monetary movement to engage with this system.

00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:44.220
 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church.

00:00:44.220 --> 00:00:51.440
 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. Is disciple making possible digitally?

00:00:52.200 --> 00:00:57.960
 How should we approach the digital mission field? Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space?

00:00:58.720 --> 00:01:00.980
 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this?

00:01:01.820 --> 00:01:13.640
 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically.

00:01:14.180 --> 00:01:21.300
 Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple making that will revolutionize your church.

00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:24.620
 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed.

00:01:24.920 --> 00:01:29.120
 All right. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the next episode of the Church Digital Podcast.

00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:31.220
 It's a pleasure to be here with you today.

00:01:31.320 --> 00:01:38.920
 My name is Jeff Reed, founder of the Digital Church, excuse me, co-founder of the Digital Church Network, founder of the Church Digital.

00:01:39.080 --> 00:01:42.020
 I've been doing this podcast close to 250 episodes.

00:01:42.540 --> 00:01:45.120
 I think this is like 240, 239.

00:01:45.500 --> 00:01:51.200
 Like, it's crazy how long we've been doing this together and just all these conversations we've been having.

00:01:51.320 --> 00:01:54.500
 This is theoretically episode 239.

00:01:54.740 --> 00:01:58.060
 And so, love this process, this path.

00:01:58.500 --> 00:02:02.940
 But you know what's interesting is I'm so busy talking about myself all the time, I never actually get to ask, how are you doing?

00:02:03.540 --> 00:02:05.160
 Like, tell me, what's going on?

00:02:06.560 --> 00:02:10.280
 Yeah, okay, that's weird because, like, I can talk to you because this is a one-way communication.

00:02:10.660 --> 00:02:18.100
 But we can't dialogue because, you know, unless you call me, like, we actually can't talk or social media.

00:02:18.440 --> 00:02:19.180
 So, hey, let's do this.

00:02:19.220 --> 00:02:20.480
 I'm going to give you my cell phone number.

00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:24.000
 It's 484-324-8724.

00:02:24.820 --> 00:02:28.240
 And on social, that's 484-324-8724.

00:02:28.460 --> 00:02:31.380
 If you're a telephone alphabet, it's number four, the church.

00:02:32.140 --> 00:02:36.540
 And my social media, the church digital everywhere.

00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:40.100
 And I'm also, my personal social media is DeerFedge.

00:02:40.180 --> 00:02:43.960
 It's Jeff Reed backwards, D-E-E-R-F-F-E-J.

00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:46.320
 So, yeah, hey, listen, I want to hear from you.

00:02:46.540 --> 00:02:46.900
 Reach out.

00:02:47.180 --> 00:02:48.160
 Let me know what's going on.

00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.260
 I mean, listen, you want to talk digital ministry?

00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:51.040
 You want to talk metaverse?

00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:52.040
 You want to just talk life?

00:02:52.220 --> 00:02:53.060
 I don't care, man.

00:02:53.120 --> 00:02:55.420
 I would love, excuse me, man or woman?

00:02:55.540 --> 00:02:56.120
 I don't care, woman.

00:02:56.940 --> 00:02:59.000
 Okay, that was a little weird, but let's just make it awkward.

00:02:59.540 --> 00:03:02.740
 I would love to hear from you on that.

00:03:02.860 --> 00:03:06.220
 So, hey, we've got another episode centered around blockchain and crypto.

00:03:06.380 --> 00:03:11.740
 Last time, just a couple weeks ago, we did an intro on blockchain and cryptocurrencies.

00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:14.760
 Really just a very high-level overview.

00:03:14.940 --> 00:03:17.720
 Church leaders, we don't understand this technology.

00:03:18.060 --> 00:03:19.440
 We know nothing about it.

00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:21.700
 Don't be embarrassed, but let's take a minute.

00:03:22.180 --> 00:03:23.040
 Let's lean in.

00:03:23.040 --> 00:03:30.300
 Let's hear maybe what can be and how this church, this technology can help revolutionize the church.

00:03:30.640 --> 00:03:31.200
 And this is where we are.

00:03:31.280 --> 00:03:33.780
 We're digging into this technology right now, blockchain and crypto.

00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:48.600
 We're going to do a deeper dive in this episode centered around some of the decentralization tendencies that will happen as a result of this technology and how it's utilizing DAOs and smart contracts.

00:03:48.840 --> 00:03:52.520
 Now, some really interesting things are going to come out of this.

00:03:52.520 --> 00:03:55.680
 Listen, if I was starting a microchurch network, I would launch it as a DAO.

00:03:56.060 --> 00:04:03.460
 If I was a physical church, I would maybe even consider experimenting by launching a DAO here or there.

00:04:03.620 --> 00:04:12.980
 And just to be honest, I, Jeff Reed, am working right now towards launching one of our pet projects through Digital Church Network as a DAO.

00:04:13.380 --> 00:04:18.900
 You may remember a couple months ago, Joey Santos was on the podcast talking about church in a VR bar.

00:04:19.380 --> 00:04:31.580
 Yeah, we're moving forward towards making that a DAO and allowing people to invest in it and be part of the ministry of what's happening, not just financially, but actually execution.

00:04:32.060 --> 00:04:37.500
 Like when you invest through the smart track, you're given the opportunity to do something.

00:04:38.020 --> 00:04:43.220
 And so this is what we are, we're looking for through a church in the VR bar.

00:04:43.340 --> 00:04:57.320
 But more than that, this is really the opportunity of a DAO to empower individuals, to move the power away from corporations and move it to individuals.

00:04:57.780 --> 00:05:00.760
 And this is really what we want to start to get into.

00:05:00.880 --> 00:05:02.820
 You're going to hear through this round table.

00:05:02.820 --> 00:05:10.080
 A couple weeks ago, we had John Dangler from Well Built Bikes and Brave Cities, Jason Dukes from the Decent Co.

00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:16.880
 Both these guys came on, did a round table months ago, but we did it through the podcast, a very basic conversation.

00:05:17.420 --> 00:05:19.620
 And this conversation, we ramp up a little bit.

00:05:20.140 --> 00:05:31.780
 We start talking more specifically DAOs, NFTs, smart contracts, decentralization, what a decentralized church can and should look like, what it could look like, and not in the future, today.

00:05:32.240 --> 00:05:40.800
 And so it's starting to get a little more picture of what the future church will look like as a result of these meta-birth of technologies.

00:05:40.980 --> 00:05:49.300
 Now, the fact is, and we talk about it in this episode, whether or not blockchain and crypto is going to be effective is irrelevant.

00:05:49.540 --> 00:05:57.240
 Sociologists have told us, mathematically, the percentage of what's happening in that space now, like we're past the tipping point.

00:05:57.420 --> 00:06:05.560
 In many ways, some of these cryptocurrencies have moved more money than MasterCard and Visa in the past year.

00:06:05.980 --> 00:06:12.060
 So it's not, we're not validating whether or not this technology is going to happen.

00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.100
 It is already happening.

00:06:14.600 --> 00:06:22.320
 What's the interesting question is, is how will the church react and respond to what's happening everywhere else?

00:06:22.880 --> 00:06:24.780
 And so this is up for conversation.

00:06:24.780 --> 00:06:29.840
 And this is what I would love for you to jump in on as we're going through this.

00:06:29.880 --> 00:06:31.840
 And hey, you want to, you want to call me up?

00:06:31.940 --> 00:06:33.180
 You want to hit me up on social media?

00:06:33.260 --> 00:06:36.480
 You want to ask questions on blockchain, crypto, any of the metaverse stuff?

00:06:36.560 --> 00:06:37.480
 Would love to.

00:06:37.620 --> 00:06:40.000
 Once again, 484-324-8724.

00:06:40.440 --> 00:06:45.620
 Or hit me up on DearFedge or TheChurchDigital on any other social.

00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:49.360
 Would love to, would love to get in it with you and work through some of this.

00:06:49.600 --> 00:06:50.540
 But for now, let's do it.

00:06:50.580 --> 00:06:51.800
 Let's move on to the episode.

00:06:51.940 --> 00:06:53.860
 We got John Dangler from Brave Cities.

00:06:54.020 --> 00:06:56.660
 We've got Jason Dukes from The Decent Co.

00:06:56.700 --> 00:07:00.280
 And myself, Jeff, with The Church Digital and Digital Church Network.

00:07:00.500 --> 00:07:06.340
 In a conversation that I'm calling DAOs, Smart Contracts, and The Decentralized Church.

00:07:06.740 --> 00:07:07.660
 Okay, everybody, here you go.

00:07:08.360 --> 00:07:08.800
 Awesome.

00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:09.520
 Hey, everybody.

00:07:10.060 --> 00:07:12.740
 We've got a roundtable here coming up.

00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:19.060
 And we're talking with John Dangler and Jason Dukes, the J&J crowd.

00:07:19.660 --> 00:07:21.740
 Jeff Reed here, so I don't know if that's J-Cube.

00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:23.100
 And that just got awkward.

00:07:23.780 --> 00:07:24.320
 J-Cubed.

00:07:24.560 --> 00:07:25.680
 J-Cubed, so good.

00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:27.920
 Maybe took that one a little too far.

00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:30.300
 I regret that in this moment right here.

00:07:30.920 --> 00:07:34.120
 But, hey, listen, we're going to do some of these.

00:07:34.380 --> 00:07:35.260
 It's interesting.

00:07:35.420 --> 00:07:41.280
 These roundtables talking about blockchain and crypto and some of the decentralization.

00:07:41.740 --> 00:07:46.780
 We've gotten more positive feedback on these on demand.

00:07:47.860 --> 00:07:51.580
 And so, like the first one, we recorded back in June.

00:07:51.720 --> 00:07:54.120
 We'll put the link in the YouTube.

00:07:54.120 --> 00:07:56.200
 And so you can go back and watch that if you want.

00:07:56.880 --> 00:07:59.280
 It's one of the largest viewed videos we've done.

00:07:59.380 --> 00:08:02.860
 We've gotten more positive feedback, more comments off it.

00:08:03.280 --> 00:08:04.240
 But it's interesting.

00:08:04.300 --> 00:08:05.100
 Even that one, too.

00:08:05.200 --> 00:08:08.860
 Like in the moment when we were trying to record it live, nobody showed up.

00:08:09.420 --> 00:08:23.160
 And so I kind of wonder if people are interested about this, but they don't want to be put in the spot because they really have no understanding and no grounding about what some of this blockchain, crypto, this technology is.

00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:25.100
 And it's one of the things that I love.

00:08:25.100 --> 00:08:28.640
 And I'll position even myself in that spot.

00:08:28.640 --> 00:08:32.180
 I have a call it an elementary understanding.

00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:43.640
 But as we're trying to figure out how we can utilize this new metaverse technology, how we can utilize this for the church, I've got a lot more questions than answers.

00:08:44.020 --> 00:09:04.060
 And so, once again, I find myself kind of positioning myself as the learner, wanting to kind of observe maybe what it actually is, what could be, as we start to work with pioneering churches and pioneering individuals that are wanting to not only, you know, I'll quote John Dingler here a little bit.

00:09:04.060 --> 00:09:11.140
 Not just think outside of the box, but burn that box to the ground, smash it down to ash and do something completely.

00:09:11.520 --> 00:09:13.620
 You're not actually quoting me.

00:09:13.980 --> 00:09:14.940
 You're quoting someone else.

00:09:14.940 --> 00:09:15.200
 That was not you?

00:09:15.820 --> 00:09:16.380
 I never said that.

00:09:16.380 --> 00:09:18.120
 I'm like, I wouldn't have said that.

00:09:19.560 --> 00:09:23.600
 But I think someone said that trying to describe me, which is fascinating.

00:09:24.580 --> 00:09:25.480
 That was, you're right.

00:09:25.620 --> 00:09:27.520
 That was Lucas Pulley.

00:09:28.040 --> 00:09:28.580
 Oh, really?

00:09:28.980 --> 00:09:29.480
 Drop names here.

00:09:29.620 --> 00:09:30.300
 I think that was Lucas.

00:09:30.300 --> 00:09:30.860
 Maybe it was Lucas.

00:09:31.040 --> 00:09:32.900
 I've heard it multiple times, actually.

00:09:33.000 --> 00:09:34.480
 And it may not even have been about you.

00:09:34.540 --> 00:09:35.560
 I'm just making crap up.

00:09:36.660 --> 00:09:37.860
 I don't know, man.

00:09:37.860 --> 00:09:39.400
 Listen, this is great.

00:09:39.460 --> 00:09:41.860
 But I'm definitely excited about this.

00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:45.720
 So, if you want to go back, we did a blockchain and crypto roundtable.

00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:50.400
 We really talked about the big picture of what blockchain and crypto is.

00:09:50.480 --> 00:09:55.840
 For this conversation, we want to dig down into NFTs, into DAOs.

00:09:56.680 --> 00:10:00.880
 And so, like, there's this completely different subsection we're going to get dirty in.

00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:05.280
 But, you know, if you don't go back and watch the old one for the larger conversation.

00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:06.040
 But let's do this.

00:10:06.540 --> 00:10:10.900
 Jason Dukes is the expert communicator when it comes towards blockchain and crypto.

00:10:11.140 --> 00:10:15.120
 So, hey, I'm going to ask the man, can you summarize?

00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:20.000
 Kind of like simple, couple minutes, big picture, blockchain and crypto.

00:10:20.200 --> 00:10:24.280
 What are we talking about when we talk about this blockchain and cryptocurrencies?

00:10:24.700 --> 00:10:26.560
 What is this stuff actually all about?

00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:32.280
 Well, I think, I mean, the simple version is that the blockchain is a, it's a technology.

00:10:34.020 --> 00:10:38.800
 And more technically, it's a tech stack, which I can explain in a second.

00:10:39.440 --> 00:10:41.980
 But it's a financial technology in particular.

00:10:42.240 --> 00:10:44.680
 And Bitcoin is what led it off.

00:10:44.680 --> 00:10:58.640
 And Bitcoin was created, at least on the surface, was created for peer-to-peer exchange of currency so that the bank system could be bypassed.

00:10:58.760 --> 00:11:14.720
 When people criticized it to say it needed to bypass the bank system for fraudulent reasons, I think it was more because people wanted to see more decentralization outside of the main banking system.

00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:32.840
 And so the blockchain became like this checkbook, basically, that lives in a web type of space, in a cloud type of space, and links together transactions so that all transactions kind of play off each other.

00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:35.740
 And there's various blockchains now.

00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:38.260
 There's not just Bitcoin anymore.

00:11:38.960 --> 00:11:41.800
 There's the Ethereum blockchain and many more.

00:11:41.800 --> 00:11:51.540
 But cryptocurrency is the currency that's used in the midst of what happens with that blockchain.

00:11:52.100 --> 00:12:06.980
 So, for example, if you can imagine a blockchain like Bitcoin is Asia and Ethereum is North America and South America for, you know, to be American-centric like we typically are as Americans.

00:12:07.260 --> 00:12:14.740
 But, you know, if you can imagine it like a continent, then it's the currency of that continent, so to speak.

00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:29.860
 It's just that from a blockchain and even on into a metaverse mindset, which they don't necessarily go together, but they definitely are being created to live together and participate together.

00:12:30.320 --> 00:12:37.000
 And so you can imagine it's like basically a geography that doesn't have borders.

00:12:37.000 --> 00:12:51.900
 It's a community of people that connect or engage with that technology of the blockchain and then use crypto to be able to exchange value on that continent, metaphorically speaking.

00:12:52.120 --> 00:12:55.620
 So, hopefully, that's a simple way to understand it.

00:12:55.700 --> 00:13:02.180
 I say it that way only because people typically think it's just funny money or monopoly money.

00:13:02.340 --> 00:13:03.680
 There's nothing real to it.

00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:13.960
 And there have been, even since our last roundtable, three particular things that have happened that certainly could make people feel that way.

00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:27.720
 I just would say that if you're reading the news and you're seeing those things, you're not really getting the true picture of what this technology and what the usage and utilization of it was really created for.

00:13:27.840 --> 00:13:28.780
 That's interesting.

00:13:28.920 --> 00:13:30.420
 You know, we saw some of that.

00:13:30.700 --> 00:13:40.020
 And obviously, I think in the past month, I feel like we've seen Bitcoin take a hit, a significant hit, I believe.

00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:48.180
 And so when we're looking at this technology, you know, what you're alluding to is it's not a short run.

00:13:48.260 --> 00:13:49.340
 It's not a reactionary.

00:13:49.380 --> 00:13:53.840
 It's actually, you know, a long tale, a long play.

00:13:55.100 --> 00:14:03.480
 You know, John, and you've been a, you know, a vocal proponent of some of this stuff, even in the last one and other conversations we've had.

00:14:04.660 --> 00:14:19.580
 When you look at the church or maybe even some of the decentralized things that you're doing with Tampa Underground and outside of Tampa, what, when you look at this technology, how do you see churches or how do you see people utilizing it?

00:14:20.020 --> 00:14:20.420
 Interesting.

00:14:20.840 --> 00:14:24.840
 There, I do see opportunities for the church.

00:14:25.000 --> 00:14:30.360
 I don't see a ton of what I think is a very obvious overlap with the church.

00:14:30.460 --> 00:14:38.080
 So what I think might be a, for just thinking about who your audience would be, what I think might be a more appropriate way to frame this is to invert this.

00:14:38.220 --> 00:14:44.260
 So I actually would say that I think what we're seeing, so like, let's just take a DAO.

00:14:44.540 --> 00:14:53.520
 Okay, so we can get into what a DAO is, but I'll just give you like a DAO is something built on the blockchain made possible by this NFT smart contract.

00:14:53.520 --> 00:15:10.240
 But it's an innovative, disruptive structure that allows cooperation toward a community's goals, shared goals, without layers, needless layers of hierarchy or third parties or trust or centralization, right?

00:15:10.420 --> 00:15:25.020
 And so what I think is interesting is that if you look at the history of the people of God, from the inception of the church in Acts, what we see is a distributed body.

00:15:25.400 --> 00:15:30.760
 Like Jesus followers, some have called the church or the way or Paul called the body.

00:15:30.760 --> 00:15:57.780
 And I would say, what it has been is a distributed structure with these shared goals and aligned, let's say, protocol that is the ethos of the kingdom of God that is not predicated or that doesn't acknowledge some centralized leadership that builds itself in all places with a diversity that makes it resilient because there is no head to take out.

00:15:58.320 --> 00:16:23.780
 And it has created a movement, a kingdom movement that has become a decentralized movement, which in many ways is a decentralized, autonomous organization, an innovative and disruptive structure that allows for cooperation toward the community's goals, their prayer, may your kingdom come, may your will be done here on earth as it is in heaven.

00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:32.660
 And what's crazy to me is what we're seeing with DAOs, the emergence of these entities, these decentralized, autonomous organizations.

00:16:32.820 --> 00:16:34.900
 Now, these are forming for all kinds of reasons, right?

00:16:35.220 --> 00:16:40.360
 There's a DAO that's being built to start a new city.

00:16:40.540 --> 00:16:43.800
 There's a DAO being – there's a bunch of them that want to buy sports teams.

00:16:43.880 --> 00:16:45.840
 There's one that wants to buy the original Blockbuster.

00:16:46.180 --> 00:16:48.700
 There's a bunch of people that are doing it as investment DAOs.

00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:04.380
 There's people that are coming together to buy, like, cabins and Airbnb type things so that members have places – decentralized places to stay all over the world for itinerant kind of working Web3 workers or whatever.

00:17:04.640 --> 00:17:05.780
 There's a million reasons.

00:17:06.140 --> 00:17:15.400
 So you just take an online community that has shared values and goals and says we're going to do something and we're going to use these tools to organize, to pool resources.

00:17:15.720 --> 00:17:18.580
 You know, some will describe a DAO as a Discord server with a bank account.

00:17:18.700 --> 00:17:29.180
 It's like it's an online community that can move funds but that doesn't rely on trust or power centers or these things just like the early church.

00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:57.100
 And I would say what we're seeing is this is the same technology of the early church but now because of the emergence of the blockchain, we actually have this ledger of record that has a base layer of truth that makes for – that actually – that removes a lot of the challenges for, like, let's say, the priests and the leaders and the principalities and powers.

00:17:57.100 --> 00:18:15.500
 And now actually makes, like, something like a belief in the priesthood of all believers using, like, the church's language possible where every individual can now download a node of the protocol, run it on their personal machine, verify every transaction and piece that's going on, know exactly what's happening.

00:18:15.720 --> 00:18:19.640
 And by the way, if you take any one node out, the overall system is fine.

00:18:19.740 --> 00:18:20.860
 It's basically negligible.

00:18:21.320 --> 00:18:22.800
 It's almost irrelevant, right?

00:18:23.020 --> 00:18:27.580
 And so I look at that and I go, this is what we've always been praying for.

00:18:28.380 --> 00:18:41.000
 And when we pray, your kingdom come, your will be done, God is, I believe, giving us a gift in the form of this technology going, everything we've been talking about is now made possible and scalable.

00:18:41.640 --> 00:18:48.200
 And the church is largely sleeping on this technology, which baffles me because it's the exact idea.

00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:57.960
 And I think the reason is because the church has gone wrong toward centralization, toward the ethos of Babylon since, really since the Roman Empire.

00:18:58.360 --> 00:19:07.120
 And, and, and, and we've been on the wrong path and no longer can recognize the, like, the makeup of this kingdom model.

00:19:07.800 --> 00:19:15.160
 But the, the, let's say the longing for the church that is like in us, you know, people talk about like the God-shaped hole in your heart.

00:19:15.240 --> 00:19:29.880
 I don't know if I like use that kind of language, but I'm saying there is a longing in us to be part of a purposeful community, to lock arms with people towards shared goals, to build something shoulder to shoulder and look around the world and people are working shoulder to shoulder to buy Blockbuster.

00:19:29.880 --> 00:19:48.060
 They're working shoulder to shoulder to fund NFT projects, shoulder to shoulder, and they're building and forging real, intentional, scaled communities across all kinds of demographics and geographies made possible by this interesting thing called the Ethereum blockchain.

00:19:48.760 --> 00:19:51.600
 And, and, and I am in awe of it.

00:19:51.600 --> 00:20:02.940
 And I go, similar to when I go to a 12-step meeting and I'm like, there's more like of the kingdom of God going on in this meeting in the basement of the church than the meeting that goes on in the upstairs of the church, like on Sunday.

00:20:02.940 --> 00:20:07.840
 Like, this is more representative of everything I've ever heard Jesus say or stand for.

00:20:07.920 --> 00:20:09.620
 The spirit of God is more present here.

00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:21.320
 Similarly, I feel that way when I look at the technology and the communities forming, godless as they may be in explicit, explicit word or aim.

00:20:21.600 --> 00:20:32.460
 Maybe the functioning of them is more close to the early church than anything that I see the people of God doing and calling church today.

00:20:33.000 --> 00:20:37.780
 And I hope that that may, so I don't see a lot of it and that's what's baffling me.

00:20:37.900 --> 00:20:44.680
 I'm going, guys, do you, we're missing this entirely and we're going, we're going to regret every second we are wasting.

00:20:45.100 --> 00:20:50.880
 We're about 10 minutes into this broadcast and he's already dropped like five controversial nuggets.

00:20:51.040 --> 00:20:53.700
 John Dengler in typical form there.

00:20:54.060 --> 00:20:55.480
 Ladies and gentlemen, John Dengler.

00:20:55.960 --> 00:21:02.520
 So Jason, let me ask, John, one of the favorite things that you said there was, you know, purposeful.

00:21:03.060 --> 00:21:07.380
 You know, and I've often said, pastor, don't be upset people are not in your building.

00:21:07.540 --> 00:21:11.860
 Be upset that people have no spiritual purpose when they're not in your building.

00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:13.020
 Or when they are.

00:21:13.120 --> 00:21:16.440
 It feels like, or, you can go there if you want.

00:21:16.560 --> 00:21:19.060
 I'm going to, I'm going to assume, I'm going to hope for the best.

00:21:19.760 --> 00:21:20.200
 You got fun.

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:27.720
 So part of this is, you know, do they, do they have purpose or, you know, I'm actually curious

00:21:27.720 --> 00:21:30.140
 because Jason, you, you have these conversations with churches.

00:21:30.540 --> 00:21:35.100
 Like when you have that type of conversation, when you walk up to a, you know, a mega church,

00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:39.800
 a giga church and say, man, you need to blow this thing up and really start to think more

00:21:39.800 --> 00:21:43.400
 decentralized and more focused outside of the building.

00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.840
 I'm guessing those conversations don't always go well.

00:21:46.900 --> 00:21:51.500
 What are, what are the, some of the tensions that you see churches have when you're talking

00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:52.220
 to them about this?

00:21:52.560 --> 00:21:53.460
 Well, it's a great question.

00:21:53.640 --> 00:22:02.160
 I mean, between 2004 and 2009, and I'm just using those years for my experiences previously,

00:22:02.740 --> 00:22:13.080
 um, I would say I, I wasn't as diplomatic, uh, um, and, and I probably frustrated a good

00:22:13.080 --> 00:22:21.080
 number of people, I think, um, and then again, between 15 and 20, I had similar experience here

00:22:21.080 --> 00:22:28.500
 in the Nashville area, but, um, I, I say that just to give context to say, I think for a long

00:22:28.500 --> 00:22:35.760
 time to, to affirm, in my opinion, uh, in my agreement, what John said for so long, since

00:22:35.760 --> 00:22:39.000
 the time before, I mean, you'd go back to Eden, right?

00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:46.420
 Like even G, even God, the father telling them that he was giving them the chance to be a part

00:22:46.420 --> 00:22:53.800
 of leadership, to be a part of oversight, to be a part of what he was really doing.

00:22:53.800 --> 00:22:56.600
 I mean, that's a decentralized mindset.

00:22:56.940 --> 00:23:05.900
 It's a, it's an open source, decentralized way and, and disciple making disciples, especially

00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:10.680
 the way that Jesus did in his rhythms are completely decentralized.

00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:17.600
 And so as I'm having those conversations, the first thing I've been doing is, and I did

00:23:17.600 --> 00:23:23.320
 it oddly enough in the last five days, I did it with a pastor in a consulting meeting.

00:23:23.320 --> 00:23:25.160
 And I did it with an NFT client.

00:23:25.240 --> 00:23:32.060
 That's a creator of music, a music guy in the music industry and same conversation with

00:23:32.060 --> 00:23:35.200
 both of them, because they both happen to be Jesus followers.

00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:41.300
 And, um, but the, the, the way that we were able to pull it together so they can understand

00:23:41.300 --> 00:23:47.600
 that money is not the root of all evil, but that the love of money is, and, and that disciples

00:23:47.600 --> 00:23:49.640
 making disciples is this mission.

00:23:49.780 --> 00:23:55.360
 Jesus has called us on for the sake of his kingdom, um, not for the sake of, you know,

00:23:55.360 --> 00:23:56.800
 the institutional church.

00:23:56.800 --> 00:24:02.820
 And, and so from the standpoint of, of all of that, decentralization has been at the heart

00:24:02.820 --> 00:24:03.120
 of it.

00:24:03.120 --> 00:24:09.460
 And, and, and so what I try to do is help churches, especially not churches and nonprofits step back

00:24:09.460 --> 00:24:13.640
 and, and remember, we, we want to be called people of the book.

00:24:14.100 --> 00:24:23.460
 And yet we're not really submitting our practices and even our monetary philosophies, um, nor our

00:24:23.460 --> 00:24:29.720
 governance philosophies and structures to, to the ways of the kingdom of Jesus.

00:24:29.940 --> 00:24:32.480
 And, you know, I mean, there's the simple stuff, right?

00:24:32.500 --> 00:24:36.800
 Like the Gentiles lorded over you, but not so among us, right?

00:24:36.840 --> 00:24:39.340
 I mean, there's this simple things that you can point to.

00:24:40.040 --> 00:24:45.580
 Um, and then even the John 17 prayer where he's praised for the maturing of our oneness

00:24:45.580 --> 00:24:47.900
 so that people would believe in the one who was sent.

00:24:48.120 --> 00:24:53.440
 And he praised that three times in that prayer, the, the, that short passage.

00:24:53.720 --> 00:24:56.460
 And so it's obviously important to him.

00:24:56.540 --> 00:25:02.860
 And so that's what I try to do from just a diplomatic standpoint is pull them back to kind of see

00:25:02.860 --> 00:25:08.940
 a big picture of how decentralization is, is at the heart of who Jesus is.

00:25:08.940 --> 00:25:15.320
 And, and like John said, that this technology is giving us the opportunity.

00:25:15.640 --> 00:25:21.620
 Could you, I don't know about John, but, but, and I think he and I both hang out with plenty

00:25:21.620 --> 00:25:24.140
 of people who have yet to believe.

00:25:24.860 --> 00:25:30.180
 Um, but you know, the different circles we run in, I'll tell you, man, I hear from people

00:25:30.180 --> 00:25:35.280
 typically in the church that they think crypto and all of this is the mark of the peace, which

00:25:35.280 --> 00:25:36.400
 I think is nonsense.

00:25:36.700 --> 00:25:42.840
 And, and, and again, because money is a world, it's, it's a, it's, it's, it's, it's not, it

00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:44.920
 doesn't have an ethic in and of itself.

00:25:45.080 --> 00:25:46.340
 The ethic is within us.

00:25:46.440 --> 00:25:51.540
 And I think, you know, and so this, this incredible technology, John, that John

00:25:51.540 --> 00:25:53.780
 called a gift, I do believe this.

00:25:53.780 --> 00:25:57.620
 I think it's something that churches can take advantage of.

00:25:57.860 --> 00:26:05.180
 And not only from the ministry practice standpoint, but even philosophically and structurally, and

00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:11.340
 then from just an overarching, even metrics and, and, and strategy, like every aspect of what

00:26:11.340 --> 00:26:20.120
 they do, as they think about who we are together as God's church, um, it can be linked into this

00:26:20.120 --> 00:26:21.860
 mindset of decentralization.

00:26:21.860 --> 00:26:28.840
 And it's why crypto and DAOs and NFTs and, and all of those types of things are so important.

00:26:28.840 --> 00:26:31.080
 And, I mean, it's why they're significant.

00:26:31.080 --> 00:26:33.520
 I hope that answers your question.

00:26:33.520 --> 00:26:40.600
 No, well, to me, the, the, the biggest challenge, at least when, when I think, listen, I was actually

00:26:40.600 --> 00:26:44.080
 joking with, with a friend of mine, like the deeper I get into this blockchain and crypto

00:26:44.080 --> 00:26:49.880
 stuff, the more that I feel like walking up to a giga church, a 10,000, a 20,000 person church

00:26:49.880 --> 00:26:53.880
 and telling them literally blow it all up and start doing house chores.

00:26:54.040 --> 00:26:59.360
 Because to me, it feels like that's where this technology and this cultural shift is coming

00:26:59.360 --> 00:27:01.540
 as a, as a result of it.

00:27:01.740 --> 00:27:06.140
 Well, that's where the rub, that that's where the rub's going to be like, like, let's just

00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:09.900
 get honest for a minute, which we already have been, which is beautiful.

00:27:10.380 --> 00:27:16.140
 But if we get just blunt, it's the financial structure that's going to make people most

00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:16.740
 uncomfortable.

00:27:17.320 --> 00:27:23.080
 And, and, and the bottom line is like, like, I don't know, I know that John and what he

00:27:23.080 --> 00:27:27.740
 does, he, they give themselves away so beautifully where I used to be a lead pastor in Orlando.

00:27:28.320 --> 00:27:33.000
 When I left there, I'd been there 10 years, we were at the point of, I think we gave away

00:27:33.000 --> 00:27:39.880
 37% of everything we took in, um, locally and globally to, to vetted partners that we

00:27:39.880 --> 00:27:40.740
 believed in.

00:27:41.300 --> 00:27:45.440
 And then we still didn't feel like we were at what John the Baptist asked for in Luke

00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:46.400
 311, right?

00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:49.560
 Like we didn't feel like we had two winter coats and give one away.

00:27:49.560 --> 00:27:56.280
 And so we were trying to get there and, and not legalistically, but just out of a compulsion

00:27:56.280 --> 00:27:58.900
 to want to, to honor the heart of Jesus.

00:27:58.900 --> 00:28:04.540
 And I think, um, we were though at 37%, which we patted ourselves on the back for, because

00:28:04.540 --> 00:28:05.440
 most people weren't.

00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:14.660
 But, but I say that to say like, like this technology allows you to put the finances back into the

00:28:14.660 --> 00:28:15.520
 hands of the people.

00:28:17.220 --> 00:28:21.700
 And, and, and that's where, that's where people are going to be most uncomfortable.

00:28:22.220 --> 00:28:29.920
 The reason I think pastors I talked to are a little bit disturbed by what the, the dynamic

00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:37.880
 of this monstrous mechanism that they've managed for so long by what it might threaten if they

00:28:37.880 --> 00:28:40.660
 truly turned in that direction.

00:28:40.660 --> 00:28:49.040
 And, and so, but what's crazy is the blockchain technology and web theory and crypto and NFTs

00:28:49.040 --> 00:28:55.360
 and things like that actually give leaders, equippers, people who are equippers and apostolic

00:28:55.360 --> 00:28:56.640
 leaders with the church.

00:28:56.640 --> 00:29:03.280
 It actually gives them a chance to make a salary or to make money just to provide for their needs

00:29:03.280 --> 00:29:09.180
 in ways that aren't only and solely dependent upon the institutional churches, financial

00:29:09.180 --> 00:29:15.160
 structures, which then would allow them maybe to breathe a little easier and feel a freedom

00:29:15.160 --> 00:29:21.360
 to give the money and the finances and the resources back to the people who like the spirit of God

00:29:21.360 --> 00:29:23.260
 left the temple, right?

00:29:23.280 --> 00:29:28.520
 Like that's the veil tore, not so that we could get in, but so that we would know he's out,

00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:30.140
 like out among us.

00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.200
 It's, it's what Jesus said in John four, right?

00:29:33.240 --> 00:29:37.980
 Like, like he told the lady, the woman at the well, it's not Gerizim or Jerusalem anymore.

00:29:37.980 --> 00:29:43.520
 The day is coming and is now here where you will be worshipers in spirit and in truth.

00:29:43.520 --> 00:29:48.240
 Like this isn't, this isn't about us getting into the Holy of Holies.

00:29:48.240 --> 00:29:51.960
 It's that the spirit and God was trying to communicate to us.

00:29:52.060 --> 00:29:53.900
 I'm out among you.

00:29:54.020 --> 00:29:54.840
 I'm with you.

00:29:54.940 --> 00:29:59.380
 That's what he told Hosea, the prophet and Jeremiah, the prophet and Malachi, the prophet

00:29:59.380 --> 00:30:00.460
 and on and on and on.

00:30:00.460 --> 00:30:06.980
 And so that's, that's the heart that we're communicating here is the idea that, that the

00:30:06.980 --> 00:30:15.700
 people of God have God's spirit and are being asked to, to steward the resources of the kingdom

00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:23.200
 of Jesus in a way that this technology affords because it provides a trustless mechanism to

00:30:23.200 --> 00:30:29.960
 allow people to engage with finances in a way that the banking system and our current financial

00:30:29.960 --> 00:30:33.340
 structures don't give a freedom to do.

00:30:33.580 --> 00:30:34.140
 Okay.

00:30:34.260 --> 00:30:40.260
 So I'm seeing, I'm seeing DAOs like, like what I'm, what I'm seeing is not even like a church

00:30:40.260 --> 00:30:46.540
 opening up a DAO as much as the church allowing opening multiple DAOs or equipping others to

00:30:46.540 --> 00:30:50.840
 open DAOs or individuals just taking upon them the authority to open the DAOs.

00:30:50.940 --> 00:30:57.260
 But I'm seeing multiple DAOs for, for multiple purposes aimed at, you know, you're, you're talking

00:30:57.260 --> 00:30:59.600
 about buying sports teams or buying back blockbuster.

00:31:00.120 --> 00:31:03.800
 It's a horrible, but doing something, you know, with that.

00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:09.360
 And so following passions, uh, utilizing that passion for kingdom purposes and recruiting people

00:31:09.360 --> 00:31:10.580
 to be part of the mission.

00:31:10.580 --> 00:31:11.320
 That makes sense.

00:31:11.660 --> 00:31:11.960
 DAOs.

00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:14.520
 I see that, um, NFTs.

00:31:14.940 --> 00:31:16.100
 I don't understand.

00:31:16.220 --> 00:31:20.940
 Like, you know, I'm, I'm only halfway speaking hyperbole here because, you know, I'm seeing

00:31:20.940 --> 00:31:22.000
 NFT as artwork.

00:31:22.100 --> 00:31:23.540
 I'm seeing NFT as songs.

00:31:23.720 --> 00:31:26.420
 Like what, what are the roles of NFTs in this?

00:31:26.460 --> 00:31:29.140
 And what, what does this actually mean?

00:31:29.200 --> 00:31:30.360
 How, how does all this come together?

00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:34.840
 So we were talking about cryptocurrencies when you were in the kind of our last episode in

00:31:34.840 --> 00:31:35.940
 the beginning of this one, right?

00:31:36.220 --> 00:31:41.980
 So there is what's called a, uh, those, those cryptocurrencies on the Ethereum blockchain.

00:31:42.080 --> 00:31:44.540
 Our protocol, this is going to be a technical, but it won't matter.

00:31:44.620 --> 00:31:45.660
 Just, you can wash over you.

00:31:45.780 --> 00:31:47.660
 It's called ER, an ERC 20.

00:31:47.960 --> 00:31:48.200
 Right.

00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:49.840
 So that's a protocol.

00:31:49.840 --> 00:31:51.800
 And what, all it means is fungible token.

00:31:51.880 --> 00:31:56.340
 Like, and, and, and what that word isn't super familiar to a lot of people, but it means

00:31:56.340 --> 00:31:57.380
 like tradable.

00:31:57.380 --> 00:31:57.700
 Right.

00:31:57.700 --> 00:32:01.660
 So like if I have a dollar bill and you have a dollar bill and we trade those dollar bills,

00:32:01.660 --> 00:32:04.060
 it's kind of like, we both still have a dollar.

00:32:04.240 --> 00:32:04.700
 It's all good.

00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:05.240
 That's good.

00:32:05.280 --> 00:32:09.300
 It like, you know, if, if we have the same thing and we trade it, you know, whatever it's,

00:32:09.340 --> 00:32:10.980
 it's a fungible token.

00:32:10.980 --> 00:32:14.820
 Like if I have one Bitcoin and you have one Bitcoin, that'd be awesome, but we can both

00:32:14.820 --> 00:32:16.160
 trade those Bitcoin.

00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:16.500
 Right.

00:32:17.100 --> 00:32:20.860
 Whereas what's called it in, it came out initially was the ERC 721.

00:32:21.040 --> 00:32:26.420
 There's a couple of different protocols for this, but what it means is a unique non-fungible

00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:27.080
 token.

00:32:27.460 --> 00:32:29.500
 So here's a way to illustrate this.

00:32:29.780 --> 00:32:31.980
 Um, Jeff, you're married, right?

00:32:32.680 --> 00:32:33.280
 Are you married?

00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:33.600
 Okay.

00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:40.060
 So if you and I decided to switch and go home to each other's wives, that would not

00:32:40.060 --> 00:32:42.240
 play well because we are not fungible.

00:32:42.800 --> 00:32:43.240
 Right.

00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:50.360
 So, so this is now there is a digital mechanism to have an identity or a, or a, or a single,

00:32:50.540 --> 00:32:51.840
 like a single use thing.

00:32:51.940 --> 00:32:55.040
 So now what's cool about the, the end.

00:32:55.040 --> 00:32:59.860
 So one is there can be like, let's say it is a, you can have a one-of-one type digital

00:32:59.860 --> 00:33:06.100
 property, which was like, Oh, it's a, is a revolutionary technology, but more than that, it's, it's what's

00:33:06.100 --> 00:33:07.440
 called a smart contract.

00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:12.280
 So a good way to illustrate a smart contract, I think is a vending machine.

00:33:12.460 --> 00:33:17.400
 So if you go to the airport and you're hungry and you go to the vending machine, you put

00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:19.820
 in a couple bucks and you put F seven.

00:33:20.100 --> 00:33:26.460
 So the inputs were a couple bucks and these buttons F seven and F seven is, I don't know

00:33:26.460 --> 00:33:27.420
 what's your favorite snack.

00:33:27.500 --> 00:33:28.960
 We get some funyuns, whatever.

00:33:28.960 --> 00:33:35.660
 And so that the output is automated and automatic because of the inputs.

00:33:35.880 --> 00:33:36.240
 Okay.

00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.280
 So now take that, that is basically a smart contract.

00:33:40.460 --> 00:33:45.300
 So an NFT is, has the capability of being a vending machine.

00:33:45.520 --> 00:33:48.060
 So I can now set up a smart contract.

00:33:48.160 --> 00:33:53.840
 This is if you come and interact with this contract and I don't know, whatever inputs I require

00:33:53.840 --> 00:34:00.440
 you have, like, Oh, you have this NFT token, this other NFT token, or this ERC 20 kind of

00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:04.800
 in your wallet, or you're going to pay this amount of money you're going to, so you can set

00:34:04.800 --> 00:34:11.480
 these things up, you can, you can create programmed entities that can exist.

00:34:11.480 --> 00:34:15.060
 Right now that is now open to human imagination.

00:34:15.060 --> 00:34:25.020
 So the entire thing that you're like, Oh, I understand DAOs fundamentally, what makes a DAO possible is a smart contract, which is an NFT.

00:34:25.620 --> 00:34:32.080
 Now an NFT, the, the use case that people are seeing is art because I grew up an artist.

00:34:32.080 --> 00:34:41.340
 I was drawn all over the place, but you know what artists were called starving artists, because, because you can't, you can't one IP is a whole thing unto itself.

00:34:41.340 --> 00:34:44.380
 Then I would occasionally be contracted to paint some mural.

00:34:44.500 --> 00:34:46.820
 You know, what's also hard is getting paid.

00:34:46.820 --> 00:34:47.920
 Once you do the work.

00:34:48.020 --> 00:34:55.260
 Uh, that's also hard because people don't think they need to pay the artist or they need to pay them what they agreed to because the contracts weren't automated.

00:34:55.260 --> 00:34:55.600
 Right.

00:34:55.760 --> 00:34:56.860
 So there's that kind of stuff.

00:34:56.860 --> 00:35:02.740
 So IP is a game changer with NFTs, uh, get the paid mechanism.

00:35:02.740 --> 00:35:05.840
 And then actually royalties can be programmed in.

00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:14.440
 So if I make, you know, let's say this skull is some great artwork and I, I sculpt this skull and it's, it's, you know, really valuable.

00:35:14.440 --> 00:35:38.940
 And I sell it to somebody, but then now when someone sells a work of art in the future, like the original artist doesn't see any returns on that art, but if, if it was an, if it was a ERC 721 or ERC 1155, if it was a NFT, a smart contract, I could have programmed into that in perpetuity, five, 10% royalties back to.

00:35:38.940 --> 00:35:44.340
 So my great, great, great grandchildren will be like, yo, granddaddy was smart.

00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:46.200
 He did a bunch of art.

00:35:46.340 --> 00:35:54.160
 Like Rembrandt's great grandchildren would be getting royalties on sales from auctions that happened at Christie's last month.

00:35:54.380 --> 00:35:54.580
 Right.

00:35:54.680 --> 00:35:56.360
 Like that would still be happening.

00:35:57.000 --> 00:35:59.000
 That is revolutionary technology.

00:35:59.000 --> 00:36:03.720
 And actually to me is the thing at the heart of all of my excitement about this.

00:36:03.780 --> 00:36:06.100
 So I'm like, yeah, cryptocurrencies were interesting.

00:36:06.500 --> 00:36:07.780
 There's a way to hold value.

00:36:07.960 --> 00:36:08.620
 Blockchain's awesome.

00:36:08.620 --> 00:36:18.320
 I actually think all that's true, but when they figured out a way to program a one-of-one contract, now we're seeing houses are selling as NFTs.

00:36:18.440 --> 00:36:25.760
 In fact, one in Gulfport right near us just sold as a first in the United States NFT sale that the house went with it.

00:36:25.800 --> 00:36:27.200
 The ownership of the house went with it.

00:36:27.500 --> 00:36:33.360
 This is going to, and this, I believe when you hear me say, this is what's going to replace your churches, your institutions.

00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:34.960
 I think possibly your government.

00:36:34.960 --> 00:36:36.740
 I think definitely your colleges.

00:36:36.740 --> 00:36:44.240
 I think all of these things, all of these centralized powers are about to get their lunches eaten by this technology.

00:36:44.980 --> 00:36:45.840
 There's no question.

00:36:45.840 --> 00:36:49.600
 And I would, I just want to throw in out there too.

00:36:49.720 --> 00:36:52.260
 Like I, not only do I agree, I 100% agree.

00:36:52.360 --> 00:37:03.060
 I think when I talk to clients, the, or, or churches, I don't want to call churches clients, but when I talk to for-profit clients or to churches and nonprofits,

00:37:03.060 --> 00:37:13.320
 I, the number one thing I try to make sure that I educate them on is how significant NFTs will be.

00:37:13.720 --> 00:37:17.560
 They are significant currently because of what they've affected.

00:37:18.620 --> 00:37:27.080
 And, and, and I would, I'd love to know the date on the house sale, by the way, because I know of one that was sold in Orlando, Tampa, and Miami last month.

00:37:27.080 --> 00:37:36.440
 And so, um, like, you know, which by property real, a group called property that I think did the first ones, but we'll have to look up the dates to see.

00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:39.180
 But regardless, what you said is so true.

00:37:39.220 --> 00:37:41.020
 It's absolutely disruptive.

00:37:41.220 --> 00:37:44.080
 I mean, here's the thing it's going to disrupt.

00:37:44.480 --> 00:37:53.160
 I was, I was sharing this with an education client on last Friday, and I can share a screen if you want me to, Jeff, to put the slide up.

00:37:53.160 --> 00:38:12.860
 But, but it's going to disrupt identification concepts, all wallet concepts, all authentication concepts, all supply chain concepts, all logistics concepts, all social media concepts, all marketing concepts, all augmented and spatial reality concepts.

00:38:13.120 --> 00:38:29.760
 All real estate, all real estate, virtual and real, all music concepts, film concepts, gaming concepts, science research concepts, health and nutrition concepts, government civics concepts, and even legal concepts.

00:38:30.300 --> 00:38:33.820
 Everything will be disrupted because of NFT technology.

00:38:33.980 --> 00:38:36.940
 The bottom line is we're in a second renaissance.

00:38:37.320 --> 00:38:37.480
 Yep.

00:38:37.480 --> 00:38:38.760
 It has just begun.

00:38:39.420 --> 00:38:47.400
 And if you know anything about any revolution historically, art and story are what laid the groundwork for the ethos shift.

00:38:47.700 --> 00:38:49.320
 And that's what's happening.

00:38:49.580 --> 00:38:56.860
 Art and story are what NFTs are using to lay down the groundwork for this decentralized revolution.

00:38:57.700 --> 00:39:04.660
 And I'm telling you, even in the bear market currently for crypto, I'm telling you, it will come back.

00:39:04.880 --> 00:39:12.880
 And NFTs, over the next 12 months, people will wake up to the reality, oh my goodness, it's not art.

00:39:13.620 --> 00:39:14.560
 It's not art.

00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:27.900
 It's something that automatically provides identity, authentication, verification, certification, intellectual property, auto payment, royalties, all these things that John just mentioned.

00:39:28.620 --> 00:39:32.100
 And it's all made possible because of this technology.

00:39:32.100 --> 00:39:48.820
 And so what's happening right now, every developer right now is working their tails off to create mobile decentralized apps so that within the next two years, everyone's wallet will move solely and completely onto their phone, which is already happening.

00:39:49.220 --> 00:39:51.020
 It's not like that's a weird thing.

00:39:51.580 --> 00:39:54.820
 Your wallet is already on your phone, whether you realize it or not.

00:39:55.000 --> 00:39:55.560
 Right.

00:39:55.700 --> 00:40:04.740
 And, and all that's going to shift and you won't be able to even connect with most websites without connecting your digital wallet.

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:08.580
 I just want to say, I just want to say one thing, because that was brilliant.

00:40:08.580 --> 00:40:09.700
 And, and amen.

00:40:10.200 --> 00:40:14.380
 The one thing about this bear market, like, oh, we're, and it'll come back.

00:40:14.420 --> 00:40:18.640
 Here's the thing, like, and, and this maybe is because I didn't have huge bags and I'm not worried.

00:40:18.740 --> 00:40:20.920
 I never cared about the money aspect of this.

00:40:20.920 --> 00:40:25.920
 I care about the utility governance, like with a future orientation, everything you're rattling off.

00:40:26.000 --> 00:40:27.060
 I'm like, the money's irrelevant.

00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:32.700
 The dollar cost value of these coins is like irrelevant to me right now.

00:40:32.960 --> 00:40:33.740
 Here's the thing.

00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:36.120
 Like, oh, it, it, it crashed.

00:40:36.240 --> 00:40:37.800
 We're, it's a bloodbath out there financially.

00:40:37.980 --> 00:40:38.520
 I get it.

00:40:38.620 --> 00:40:39.640
 All markets are down.

00:40:39.900 --> 00:40:41.440
 Here's the thing that's crazy to me.

00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:45.580
 Every single thing he just said still works.

00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:47.100
 The trust still works.

00:40:47.180 --> 00:40:48.060
 The safety still works.

00:40:48.140 --> 00:40:49.260
 The speed still works.

00:40:49.300 --> 00:40:50.440
 The accuracy still works.

00:40:50.440 --> 00:40:51.300
 It works.

00:40:51.440 --> 00:40:53.740
 And the value didn't change at all.

00:40:53.900 --> 00:40:58.280
 And it just got more accessible and available to build.

00:40:58.440 --> 00:41:00.140
 And I couldn't be more excited.

00:41:00.260 --> 00:41:03.840
 I can actually afford to build things right now, to try things right now.

00:41:04.680 --> 00:41:08.960
 The, the, the, the, the, and ETH doesn't cost what it did three, four, five, seven months ago.

00:41:09.040 --> 00:41:12.220
 It's dropped substantially now, if I was an investor, that hurts.

00:41:12.500 --> 00:41:17.140
 But for me, I'm like, guys, the value, nothing, there's nothing to come back.

00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:18.780
 Nothing's even dented.

00:41:19.160 --> 00:41:20.820
 It's completely operational.

00:41:21.420 --> 00:41:22.440
 You're exactly right.

00:41:22.520 --> 00:41:27.220
 And the, and the two things that people don't realize who, who only think about this from a

00:41:27.220 --> 00:41:33.840
 USD perspective, from a U S dollar perspective, if, if that's your mindset, which is normal,

00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:35.720
 by the way, that's not being critical of that.

00:41:35.720 --> 00:41:41.680
 Everyone watching this video lives, I don't care where you're from on the planet Earth.

00:41:41.760 --> 00:41:42.060
 That's right.

00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:45.740
 You, you live in a U S dollar mindset.

00:41:46.020 --> 00:41:48.540
 It doesn't mean that's going to stay that way forever.

00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:50.720
 It's just reality right now.

00:41:51.240 --> 00:41:55.880
 But people who operate and are building on these, in these cryptocurrencies and are building

00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:00.480
 technologies and leveraging these technologies and even investing in the technology,

00:42:01.180 --> 00:42:07.660
 they are not thinking, oh my goodness, ETH is down, Bitcoin, they're thinking in terms of

00:42:07.660 --> 00:42:10.840
 a Bitcoin, still a Bitcoin, and ETH is still an ETH.

00:42:11.100 --> 00:42:13.420
 And I'm operating in those currencies now.

00:42:13.700 --> 00:42:18.820
 Because even though the liquidity and the, and the capital has diminished because the price

00:42:18.820 --> 00:42:24.220
 of tokens has diminished, the amount of money being invested in the space is more now than

00:42:24.220 --> 00:42:25.240
 it was a year ago.

00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:30.080
 And it's not changing because people realize this is where we're headed and where we're

00:42:30.080 --> 00:42:30.440
 going.

00:42:31.280 --> 00:42:33.160
 And, and, and that's what John's saying.

00:42:33.260 --> 00:42:34.220
 He's exactly right.

00:42:34.620 --> 00:42:38.840
 People are, and like, I mean, I was going to give this when we start talking about DAOs,

00:42:38.920 --> 00:42:44.800
 but I'll give it now as just a prime example of that, that you can now build DAOs, for example,

00:42:44.800 --> 00:42:47.060
 on Polygon, not just on ETH.

00:42:47.140 --> 00:42:52.040
 And there's other chains you can build it on too, but you can do a DAO now in Polygon

00:42:52.040 --> 00:42:53.420
 and they're currencymatic.

00:42:54.220 --> 00:43:01.120
 And since Syndicate, which is the number one DAO establisher on earth, syndicate.io,

00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:06.880
 and friend of mine is one of the founders there, Ian Lee, but since Ian and Will were the

00:43:06.880 --> 00:43:12.980
 founders, since in the last six to eight months, about three weeks ago, they had gotten to

00:43:12.980 --> 00:43:20.260
 4,000 DAOs established through Syndicate, which represented over 10% of the DAOs that exist

00:43:20.260 --> 00:43:21.240
 on earth right now.

00:43:22.020 --> 00:43:22.360
 All right.

00:43:22.660 --> 00:43:23.900
 That's pretty significant.

00:43:24.660 --> 00:43:30.440
 In the last three weeks, since they announced that you could build it on Polygon, which is

00:43:30.440 --> 00:43:36.420
 a cheaper transaction rate, it's faster, it's scalable, more people can buy into it because

00:43:36.420 --> 00:43:41.480
 it's cheaper to buy into it and feel like you're doing volume work with it.

00:43:42.200 --> 00:43:48.060
 They've gone from 4,000 DAOs to this morning, they announced they've crossed the 10,000 mark.

00:43:48.480 --> 00:43:50.640
 That's 6,000 in three weeks.

00:43:51.440 --> 00:43:51.560
 Yeah.

00:43:52.040 --> 00:43:53.240
 Like that's pretty incredible.

00:43:53.820 --> 00:43:54.500
 Let me ask.

00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:57.800
 I mean, I'm understanding the numbers.

00:43:58.120 --> 00:44:02.600
 I'm hearing John say this is going to topple governments.

00:44:03.480 --> 00:44:12.280
 I'm hearing this is going to, at nice terms, disrupt the economy, if not a much, much stronger.

00:44:12.980 --> 00:44:16.140
 Like I'm going to put a, I'm going to ask for a guesstimate here.

00:44:16.660 --> 00:44:18.420
 You know, am I looking at this in 24?

00:44:18.720 --> 00:44:20.060
 Am I looking at this at 26?

00:44:20.860 --> 00:44:24.780
 What year or is this already in the midst of it?

00:44:24.840 --> 00:44:28.680
 Is this a gradual, is this a slap across the face?

00:44:29.720 --> 00:44:34.640
 How are we seeing and when are we seeing and how will we be feeling some of these trans,

00:44:34.700 --> 00:44:38.000
 trans, I don't know what the word is there.

00:44:38.760 --> 00:44:39.580
 The transition.

00:44:39.580 --> 00:44:39.800
 Transition.

00:44:40.480 --> 00:44:41.180
 Thank you.

00:44:41.620 --> 00:44:45.940
 That's a very hard thing to say, right?

00:44:46.340 --> 00:44:47.840
 Because God only knows.

00:44:48.240 --> 00:44:51.360
 But faster than we think, I would say.

00:44:51.860 --> 00:44:52.740
 But I will say this.

00:44:52.820 --> 00:44:55.540
 There are three, I just, what came to mind when you were saying that,

00:44:55.640 --> 00:45:00.480
 the Ethereum Foundation put out this annual report for 2022.

00:45:00.840 --> 00:45:05.400
 And under the like heading of philosophy, there were these three like headings that stood out to me.

00:45:05.680 --> 00:45:07.380
 And one of them was long-term thinking.

00:45:07.700 --> 00:45:13.660
 And they're like, the Ethereum Foundation community's impact should be measured in decades and centuries,

00:45:14.020 --> 00:45:15.900
 not quarters and fiscal years.

00:45:16.240 --> 00:45:18.460
 It's a protocol for human coordination.

00:45:18.980 --> 00:45:25.700
 And if it continues to be a useful protocol, the lifespan will stretch far into the future.

00:45:26.080 --> 00:45:30.080
 So like a gardener, we're planting seeds that we may not live to see grow.

00:45:30.420 --> 00:45:33.320
 Language used by revolutionaries actually throughout history.

00:45:33.320 --> 00:45:35.640
 The next one was subtraction.

00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:40.020
 Basically saying we want to resist the natural tendency of organizations,

00:45:40.220 --> 00:45:41.880
 which I would say like the spirit of Babylon,

00:45:42.460 --> 00:45:46.360
 that is mostly what we know, to grow and accumulate power.

00:45:46.640 --> 00:45:49.160
 Instead of capturing opportunities for ourselves,

00:45:49.160 --> 00:45:51.480
 we distribute opportunities to the community.

00:45:51.940 --> 00:45:54.180
 Instead of pulling everything in-house to the center,

00:45:54.460 --> 00:45:57.040
 we push the resources out into the ecosystem.

00:45:57.720 --> 00:45:59.820
 And then stewardship of values.

00:45:59.980 --> 00:46:01.060
 And the line was just beautiful.

00:46:01.180 --> 00:46:02.700
 It says, Ethereum has a soul.

00:46:02.700 --> 00:46:06.040
 The values of our community have helped make Ethereum what it is.

00:46:06.380 --> 00:46:11.260
 It includes values like open source, decentralization, open access, privacy, and many more.

00:46:11.340 --> 00:46:12.620
 The list isn't exhaustive.

00:46:12.800 --> 00:46:16.380
 But we don't get to decide what the community values are.

00:46:16.660 --> 00:46:20.100
 We are here to nurture what they think is most important.

00:46:20.740 --> 00:46:25.680
 And so I go, look, that is here, and it is coming.

00:46:25.840 --> 00:46:27.860
 Oh, isn't that interesting, familiar language?

00:46:28.560 --> 00:46:31.120
 Like we talk about the kingdom of God.

00:46:31.640 --> 00:46:37.340
 And interestingly enough, in many ways, though not necessarily using the name of Jesus,

00:46:38.260 --> 00:46:44.220
 sounds closer to a lot of what I believe the early church's ethos was

00:46:44.220 --> 00:46:48.980
 than a lot of the opposite of what we see using explicitly the name of Jesus,

00:46:49.440 --> 00:46:54.960
 pulling resources in, lording over, bring, you know, the inversion of these values.

00:46:54.960 --> 00:46:58.860
 So the timeline question is super hard.

00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:04.540
 I would say very, like it is coming quickly, and God only knows.

00:47:04.740 --> 00:47:10.880
 But it's like the only way to say it is like if I say, well, when, when is this kingdom going to come that you speak of?

00:47:10.920 --> 00:47:12.600
 Like you keep talking about the kingdom of God.

00:47:12.700 --> 00:47:12.940
 When?

00:47:13.600 --> 00:47:14.680
 And it's like, well, it's here.

00:47:15.540 --> 00:47:16.360
 It's here.

00:47:16.700 --> 00:47:17.720
 And it's coming.

00:47:18.660 --> 00:47:24.960
 And I don't think there's the, it's not just analogy, I don't think, although the analogy is perfect.

00:47:25.820 --> 00:47:28.160
 It's like, so that's my best answer to that.

00:47:28.340 --> 00:47:29.020
 I don't know.

00:47:29.560 --> 00:47:30.640
 But right now.

00:47:31.320 --> 00:47:31.940
 It's good.

00:47:32.120 --> 00:47:32.700
 It's good, yeah.

00:47:32.700 --> 00:47:40.940
 And I just can throw out a few things from a data-informed perspective that I am seeing.

00:47:42.640 --> 00:47:53.400
 And the first one is simple related to the church, and that is the difference in what is happening with this decentralized revolution

00:47:53.400 --> 00:48:03.900
 and what is typical for the, at least the American church, I'll say, is that the, and I even heard this the last church I was on staff,

00:48:04.520 --> 00:48:13.760
 in our onboarding, they made every person who came on staff go through Modelnetics, which is a business concept to business organization concept.

00:48:13.760 --> 00:48:17.300
 And it's not, it's, I didn't, I didn't think it was awful.

00:48:17.480 --> 00:48:23.300
 I learned some things, but why didn't we onboard every equipper with the ethos of disciple making, right?

00:48:23.320 --> 00:48:25.320
 Like that would be a much more sensible thing.

00:48:25.500 --> 00:48:29.660
 And I said that multiple times in staff meetings, so I'm not saying anything I never said.

00:48:30.460 --> 00:48:35.540
 But what was interesting with Modelnetics is you can read Modelnetics stuff.

00:48:35.620 --> 00:48:36.520
 It's out and about.

00:48:36.620 --> 00:48:39.800
 In fact, I think it was born in Houston, where we'll be later in August, right?

00:48:40.480 --> 00:48:44.720
 But you can read Modelnetics, and the bottom line of Modelnetics is survival.

00:48:45.640 --> 00:48:49.680
 The bottom line of all centralized structures is survival.

00:48:50.460 --> 00:48:55.560
 And the bottom line of decentralized structures is thriving, right?

00:48:56.300 --> 00:48:57.760
 Surviving or thriving?

00:48:58.040 --> 00:48:59.420
 Which one do you want to be about?

00:48:59.500 --> 00:49:07.640
 Because surviving motivates you to do something very different than if you're motivated to see as many people as possible thrive.

00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:20.700
 And so I say that to give context that I think it will be a difficult transition because people will still hold tightly to survival.

00:49:21.960 --> 00:49:26.480
 But data informed just three things to point out real quick.

00:49:26.480 --> 00:49:35.120
 When this November, the beginning of a shift for international monetary movement will occur.

00:49:35.760 --> 00:49:41.240
 And it will play out between November 2022 and November 2024.

00:49:41.740 --> 00:49:44.460
 And if you don't believe me, you can Google search it.

00:49:44.540 --> 00:49:51.240
 There's over 25 countries that you can find PDFs that document what they're doing for this.

00:49:51.480 --> 00:49:53.580
 And it's happening.

00:49:53.720 --> 00:49:54.640
 It's going to happen.

00:49:54.760 --> 00:49:59.680
 So that's significant because that's a massive macro infrastructure move, right?

00:49:59.780 --> 00:50:02.040
 So that's actually happening, right?

00:50:02.600 --> 00:50:13.440
 The second thing, every major finance group and payment optimization group right now are moving toward putting digital wallets on every single mobile phone on earth.

00:50:14.800 --> 00:50:16.080
 Functional digital wallets.

00:50:16.080 --> 00:50:22.960
 It's not cumbersome, I don't know how to even get crypto and what do I do with it wallets.

00:50:23.360 --> 00:50:27.020
 But functional, I can buy groceries with my crypto wallets.

00:50:27.380 --> 00:50:30.540
 And that's happening now.

00:50:30.780 --> 00:50:34.140
 And billions of dollars are being poured into it.

00:50:34.840 --> 00:50:48.480
 And then the third thing I would say is that the rate of change in the blockchain movement is so much faster than the rate of change in the internet movement.

00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:53.280
 This is actually going to be a renewal of what the internet was meant to be.

00:50:53.440 --> 00:50:57.440
 That's a whole other conversation we can have, if you want, on another roundtable.

00:50:58.320 --> 00:51:03.960
 But the internet movement, if you remember, I mean, the internet officially started in the 70s.

00:51:04.020 --> 00:51:05.360
 Most people don't realize that.

00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:09.720
 But it really became more public in the 90s.

00:51:10.220 --> 00:51:13.120
 And then by 98, we were all scared of YTK.

00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:19.360
 But by 98, it started really taking, kind of hit a tipping point.

00:51:19.360 --> 00:51:25.980
 And in 2007, with the iPhone, is when it really went berserk, right?

00:51:26.040 --> 00:51:28.600
 Because all of a sudden, everyone could access it.

00:51:29.300 --> 00:51:30.900
 And so think about that.

00:51:30.960 --> 00:51:34.200
 You're talking about decades, right?

00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:38.840
 From inception to when it really went berserk and was completely mainstream.

00:51:39.540 --> 00:51:48.380
 But then take even the segment of 98 to 2007, in that nine-year period, I think you divide that by three.

00:51:48.760 --> 00:51:53.000
 Because I think we're moving three to four times faster in this blockchain movement.

00:51:53.180 --> 00:51:56.840
 I mean, the pace is so difficult to keep up with.

00:51:56.920 --> 00:51:58.600
 And I'm in the middle of it every day.

00:51:59.160 --> 00:52:06.040
 And so I can't imagine for people who are not in the middle of it how just overwhelming it can be.

00:52:06.620 --> 00:52:13.800
 But it's happening at three times the rate, in my opinion, just looking at the way, how quickly things change.

00:52:14.020 --> 00:52:23.440
 Even my example of the Dow a while ago, I mean, you see how quickly that's being adopted over a three-week period versus what had been done the previous six months.

00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:33.760
 And so it's just one of those things where I would say, no question, by 2030, you're going to see – and I'm not saying I know like I have a crystal ball.

00:52:33.860 --> 00:52:46.980
 I just feel abundantly confident that by 2030, based on data, based on the things that I know are being developed, that you're going to see individuals engaging with this technology regularly.

00:52:46.980 --> 00:52:52.680
 You'll see institutions having fully adjusted their infrastructure to handle it.

00:52:53.280 --> 00:53:01.620
 And long before 2030, countries will have adjusted international monetary movement to engage with this system.

00:53:02.080 --> 00:53:03.640
 I think that's wildly conservative.

00:53:05.940 --> 00:53:07.480
 Well, of course you do.

00:53:07.800 --> 00:53:09.880
 You're allergic to conservatism.

00:53:10.900 --> 00:53:11.740
 I'm not.

00:53:11.760 --> 00:53:12.260
 Do you have any thoughts?

00:53:12.260 --> 00:53:12.520
 I'm not.

00:53:12.720 --> 00:53:13.600
 No, no, that's it.

00:53:13.680 --> 00:53:13.820
 Go.

00:53:13.900 --> 00:53:15.420
 I want you to jump in and ask some questions.

00:53:15.420 --> 00:53:18.460
 But I just – I think that's a conservative timeline.

00:53:18.840 --> 00:53:22.720
 So he's saying by 2030 – so I'm like, okay, we got eight years.

00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:24.440
 No, yeah, for sure.

00:53:24.700 --> 00:53:26.840
 Like that it will be every day.

00:53:27.020 --> 00:53:28.580
 You'll every day interact.

00:53:28.580 --> 00:53:44.260
 And by the way, just the adoption rate, like if you like – you can like Google like overlay, let's say, blockchain adoption to internet adoption, like from like the – the growth rate actually mirrors each other pretty well.

00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:57.980
 And then if you look at like Bitcoin, like wallet addresses versus Ethereum wallet addresses with like non-zero balances, it's like a skyrocket of Ethereum like surpassing Bitcoin as well.

00:53:57.980 --> 00:54:05.640
 But like you merge those into like the blockchain path and go blockchain adoption versus like the internet itself.

00:54:05.960 --> 00:54:12.540
 And by the way, that we today, sitting here right now, are in 1997 or 8.

00:54:13.360 --> 00:54:26.920
 Like so if you want to know like what the timeline looks like, but I'm like go follow that trajectory and go, well, what did from – at what's 8 – what did it look like in 2006 versus 98?

00:54:27.400 --> 00:54:29.920
 And that's the timeline you're factoring in eight years out?

00:54:29.940 --> 00:54:36.700
 I'm like, oh, yeah, that's – I think it's conservative because I actually think it – I think the curve is going to be greater, honestly.

00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:38.680
 But even if it matches the same trend.

00:54:39.120 --> 00:54:40.980
 And I'll say – I mean I don't mind saying.

00:54:41.120 --> 00:54:47.880
 I said a client asked the same question yesterday and I just said – they said, I want to know because I was like, yeah, we don't know.

00:54:47.980 --> 00:54:49.080
 And I was – they said, I want to know.

00:54:49.160 --> 00:55:02.120
 And I said, well, I think 26 or 27, you won't be able to interact in any financial or major infrastructure or even in the supply chain structure the same way that we do right now.

00:55:02.560 --> 00:55:04.960
 And I think that's still a conservative.

00:55:05.700 --> 00:55:06.760
 Here's the thing though.

00:55:07.340 --> 00:55:13.400
 I think what's interesting is right now people – like listen, if you're listening and you're like, yeah, I tried.

00:55:13.700 --> 00:55:16.780
 It was very complicated to set up the wallet and I don't understand.

00:55:17.080 --> 00:55:18.820
 Like this is DOS version.

00:55:19.020 --> 00:55:22.080
 So a lot of what's being worked on is user interface, right?

00:55:22.300 --> 00:55:24.860
 Because the onboarding thing is really tricky.

00:55:24.860 --> 00:55:36.340
 It's like back in the day if you wanted to watch a movie on your computer, you had to know so many things on how to find these servers and download these things and set up these players.

00:55:36.580 --> 00:55:41.600
 And like it was only my geeky uncle that could like come over on Christmas and play a movie from the internet.

00:55:41.600 --> 00:55:45.940
 It was like magical that that could be done without going to the blockbuster.

00:55:46.200 --> 00:55:51.760
 But blockbusters aren't here anymore except that one that that DAO is going to buy and repurpose into something dope.

00:55:51.760 --> 00:55:54.700
 But like that – they don't even exist anymore.

00:55:54.900 --> 00:56:03.780
 And it's like that's what's happening is like as that user interface and usability and these mobile wallets are developed, like what is the challenge today?

00:56:03.900 --> 00:56:05.260
 It's like it's complicated.

00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.520
 It's expensive.

00:56:07.320 --> 00:56:14.200
 It's like you got to have like – I mean all of us start going down this rabbit hole going, oh my god, there's so much I got to know.

00:56:14.500 --> 00:56:17.140
 Like you talked about at the beginning is I'm still in the learning phase.

00:56:17.420 --> 00:56:18.760
 So we all are.

00:56:18.760 --> 00:56:19.240
 All of us.

00:56:19.420 --> 00:56:20.280
 All of us are.

00:56:20.660 --> 00:56:23.880
 It's like the – it's the unknown out here, which I love.

00:56:24.020 --> 00:56:25.140
 I'm just like, man, this is great.

00:56:25.340 --> 00:56:26.320
 It's none of us know.

00:56:26.400 --> 00:56:27.540
 We're figuring it out out here.

00:56:28.160 --> 00:56:30.320
 But it is completely unknown.

00:56:31.100 --> 00:56:31.800
 Very exciting.

00:56:31.980 --> 00:56:38.040
 But like it will not take long for those user interfaces because that's a top priority for every project.

00:56:38.540 --> 00:56:38.880
 Everyone.

00:56:39.240 --> 00:56:39.440
 That's right.

00:56:39.780 --> 00:56:43.140
 Well, and really that segues right to where I wanted to go.

00:56:43.140 --> 00:56:53.960
 You know, to say – to transfer a little bit, augmented reality is very hard to encompass right now because Apple has not released these glasses.

00:56:54.360 --> 00:56:54.580
 Sure.

00:56:54.580 --> 00:57:06.480
 When Apple comes out with – when a large player, whether it's Apple, whether it's Meta, Facebook, whether it's Google, when somebody comes out with something better than Google Glass, we'll be able to wrap our brains around what augmented is.

00:57:06.480 --> 00:57:15.280
 But until then, it's sketchy at best to try to figure out what it is, even more how to take advantage of it.

00:57:15.280 --> 00:57:41.680
 For the, you know, the 600-person church in Arkansas, no offense to the Arkansasian people, but, you know, a blue-collar church somewhere out there, small to medium size, is the challenge today for them to understand this, to own this, to prepare this, to wait for a major player to come out with a turnkey solution that they can use?

00:57:41.680 --> 00:57:47.820
 It's like, what are people, what are churches, what are pastors, what are church leaders, what are they supposed to do with this?

00:57:47.860 --> 00:57:48.940
 Like, they're shock and awe.

00:57:49.800 --> 00:57:51.480
 What's a practical next step?

00:57:51.540 --> 00:57:52.820
 Is there a practical next step?

00:57:53.640 --> 00:57:54.860
 I'll jump in real quick.

00:57:55.000 --> 00:57:58.340
 I think there are several very practical next steps.

00:57:58.460 --> 00:58:01.180
 But first of all, I think the onus is on us.

00:58:01.180 --> 00:58:30.820
 And what I mean by onus is on the leaders of the church, the people, and I'm speaking now of the Big C Church, the people who have equipping and apostolic callings to tell the stories, to come up with the imagined narratives, to help people, the leaders of our respective expressions of the church, to understand what this could mean.

00:58:30.820 --> 00:58:40.200
 And John does a beautiful job of it, of really suggesting things that people can put their hands on and around, their minds and hearts around.

00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:48.160
 But, you know, like, I mean, a good example, I was thinking the other day of, and I'll give one local, one global real quick.

00:58:48.600 --> 00:58:57.600
 You know, from a global standpoint, a buddy of mine, he was a paid missionary to Kathmandu.

00:58:58.540 --> 00:59:10.880
 But what I love, because he had been a Boeing engineer, is he went and was hired by the university there, Kathmandu University, I think it is, it might be University of Kathmandu, whatever.

00:59:11.580 --> 00:59:13.600
 So UK or KU, right, one or the other.

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:22.240
 And he was hired there to start, this was back in the day, to start their computer science program.

00:59:22.860 --> 00:59:23.460
 And he did.

00:59:24.080 --> 00:59:30.020
 And so I just imagine, if he had to do something like that today, how incredible.

00:59:30.740 --> 00:59:35.960
 And John, I'd love to hear your thoughts on this, when it comes around, if you have any on it.

00:59:37.600 --> 00:59:52.620
 How incredible would it be for him to leverage NFT technology and blockchain and DAO utility to be able to do something from a Web3 and a tech dev standpoint, if he was starting that today?

00:59:53.300 --> 01:00:01.200
 And how easily churches from every continent could get in on it and be a part of it.

01:00:01.200 --> 01:00:09.720
 How individual businessmen and women who believe in it could get in on it and be a part of it because of the technology that's now available.

01:00:10.260 --> 01:00:13.300
 And whereas it was so, you talk about cumbersome.

01:00:13.760 --> 01:00:15.060
 I mean, that was cumbersome.

01:00:15.120 --> 01:00:21.360
 If someone wanted to really be a part of supporting it or even be engaged with it, and it's different now.

01:00:21.360 --> 01:00:30.400
 And so that's a global example of just how people can begin to think, how churches like that church, a church in Arkansas could think.

01:00:31.200 --> 01:00:38.340
 But even locally, a church in Arkansas may say, we don't want a single person in our town to go hungry.

01:00:38.820 --> 01:00:44.900
 Or they may say, you know, they may really get passionate about, you know, like the things Jesus actually said, right?

01:00:45.260 --> 01:00:52.200
 So Matthew 25, and they just go down the list in Matthew 25, and they say, what about the prisoners in our town?

01:00:52.260 --> 01:00:57.720
 And what about the hungry and the ones in hospitals and, you know, those who don't have clothes or shelter?

01:00:58.260 --> 01:01:05.020
 You know, and you go on through the six that are mentioned there of the least of these, or even James 1 with the widow and the orphan.

01:01:05.020 --> 01:01:16.840
 And you say, okay, let's say that church in Arkansas says, we don't want a single orphan to not have a family in our city.

01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:44.460
 And so we're going to leverage the ability for every follower of Jesus, not just our one expression of his church, but every follower of Jesus in this town to be a part of a DAO, whose purpose is to make sure that the resources are available to fund the supporters who would need to come around the families that adopt the kids, right?

01:01:44.460 --> 01:01:54.340
 Because that's almost more important from an adoption standpoint than even just making sure the adoption family can buy clothes, right?

01:01:54.800 --> 01:02:06.260
 But to have this incredible support group and to make sure the resources are there to support, to fund, to provide unique opportunities, to pay for the counseling that is needed by that family and those children,

01:02:06.800 --> 01:02:16.620
 to provide whatever they need from a school standpoint, a college standpoint, or whatever is going to come from our education system through this disruption.

01:02:17.420 --> 01:02:19.760
 Like, like that kind of thing is possible.

01:02:20.340 --> 01:02:29.200
 And I'm not just saying that to give the easy, here's the nice missions example, because it's always this missions people, the people that are labeled mission or evangelism.

01:02:29.480 --> 01:02:32.460
 They're the, we're the ones that left the church in the seventies, right?

01:02:32.500 --> 01:02:38.140
 Because the ape wasn't allowed in the room anymore, the apostle prophet evangelist, but that's another conversation.

01:02:38.560 --> 01:02:49.460
 So the shepherd teacher, you know, became so central and, but it's, so I'm not just even giving those examples because it's the typical evangelism or missionary example.

01:02:49.460 --> 01:02:56.440
 I'm just saying those are two incredibly practical, low hanging fruit opportunities that would help churches.

01:02:56.440 --> 01:03:04.240
 Because the thing I say to every client and every group I work with is just do one thing, like just do one thing.

01:03:04.340 --> 01:03:17.180
 You're not going to even know how to talk about Web3 and NFTs and crypto, unless you have a MetaMask wallet or a Temple Tezos wallet or a Stoic wallet on the internet computer or so on and so forth.

01:03:17.520 --> 01:03:21.680
 You're not even going to know how to talk about it unless you jump in and do one thing.

01:03:22.220 --> 01:03:26.440
 So do one thing, and then you're going to start to go, oh, that wasn't that hard.

01:03:27.040 --> 01:03:33.680
 So I want to piggyback on that one thing because I'll take the, the other approach.

01:03:33.940 --> 01:03:42.080
 So I've heard so many people, even church folks that like kind of get this stuff and they're like, oh my gosh, we could do this.

01:03:42.140 --> 01:03:42.760
 We could do this.

01:03:42.820 --> 01:03:43.460
 We could do this.

01:03:43.640 --> 01:03:45.740
 And I think that's absolutely right.

01:03:46.720 --> 01:03:53.540
 But, but then in the actual execution, and this is my own experience is like, so like I work with a very poor community.

01:03:54.080 --> 01:03:56.160
 There is cost prohibitive, right?

01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:58.300
 Now people, most people have smartphones.

01:03:58.300 --> 01:03:59.360
 They can get access.

01:03:59.460 --> 01:04:02.540
 They can set up a MetaMask wallet, but they can't buy ETH.

01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:03.300
 They can't go.

01:04:03.580 --> 01:04:08.320
 They might not have a bank account to set up and transfer ETH over to this thing and, you know, whatever.

01:04:08.860 --> 01:04:14.220
 So I'm going to give a very concrete, practical, like, here's what I think.

01:04:14.540 --> 01:04:18.120
 So, so let's just take the church in Arkansas with 600 people in general.

01:04:18.440 --> 01:04:24.080
 That pastor probably wants to take people that participate in some way in the church.

01:04:24.520 --> 01:04:29.460
 They attend a service once in a while, or they went to the community picnic.

01:04:29.460 --> 01:04:33.600
 They participated in something and they want to move them to an engaged person.

01:04:33.920 --> 01:04:36.620
 And then they want to bring them into like membership, into the fold.

01:04:36.760 --> 01:04:37.520
 They're engaged now.

01:04:37.780 --> 01:04:41.280
 And then they want to move them from, and so maybe they go, hey, why don't you help set up chairs?

01:04:41.580 --> 01:04:46.420
 Or why don't you help do parking or whatever lame thing they do around the church building?

01:04:46.580 --> 01:04:48.240
 But like, let's get them engaged.

01:04:48.480 --> 01:04:51.660
 But the idea is we want to then move them from engaged to ownership.

01:04:52.040 --> 01:04:58.400
 And not just ownership, not like ownership of the church, but ownership of the mission, the work, the kingdom, right?

01:04:58.540 --> 01:04:58.740
 Okay.

01:04:58.960 --> 01:05:00.760
 So that's a very simple kind of roadmap.

01:05:00.900 --> 01:05:01.900
 So here's the suggestion.

01:05:02.560 --> 01:05:03.420
 The one thing.

01:05:03.920 --> 01:05:05.460
 There is a protocol.

01:05:05.860 --> 01:05:09.400
 It's actually built on Gnosis chain, kind of a side chain of Ethereum.

01:05:09.500 --> 01:05:10.000
 It doesn't matter.

01:05:10.680 --> 01:05:13.280
 It's called POAP, P-O-A-P.

01:05:13.520 --> 01:05:15.740
 So it's a proof of attendance protocol.

01:05:15.940 --> 01:05:18.140
 So like last month, I went to a conference.

01:05:18.840 --> 01:05:25.900
 And at that conference, they said, hey, if you're here in attendance, like right now, I know we don't have people on here, but we're live, right?

01:05:25.900 --> 01:05:35.540
 And so if people were on, we can say, hey, if you're live right now, for this amount of time that we're on, there's a POAP available at this domain.

01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:36.860
 And you set up your wallet.

01:05:36.960 --> 01:05:37.820
 You can go claim it.

01:05:37.960 --> 01:05:38.720
 It's free.

01:05:38.960 --> 01:05:40.520
 It's absolutely free to claim.

01:05:40.840 --> 01:05:41.900
 But it is an NFT.

01:05:42.540 --> 01:05:45.200
 It's a free NFT that I can claim on this chain.

01:05:45.720 --> 01:05:45.980
 Okay.

01:05:46.580 --> 01:05:48.700
 Now, that's free.

01:05:48.820 --> 01:05:49.260
 That's awesome.

01:05:49.340 --> 01:05:49.920
 That's something.

01:05:50.100 --> 01:05:53.200
 And so I did this with a little blog I wrote on how to set up wallets.

01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:56.180
 I said, if you set up a wallet, send me your wallet address in your email.

01:05:56.380 --> 01:05:58.440
 I'm going to send you a link to download a free POAP.

01:05:58.900 --> 01:05:59.600
 And there you go.

01:05:59.660 --> 01:06:01.660
 It said like the wallet setup thing.

01:06:02.580 --> 01:06:06.920
 Your ball blurred out because you got that weird filter on.

01:06:07.920 --> 01:06:08.380
 There you go.

01:06:08.500 --> 01:06:10.320
 Those are the POAPs.

01:06:10.320 --> 01:06:12.880
 And that's the mobile app wallet of those things.

01:06:13.180 --> 01:06:14.220
 So they're free.

01:06:14.340 --> 01:06:16.200
 And it's like collecting badges.

01:06:16.200 --> 01:06:18.720
 Like if you had like a passport, you want stamps or stickers.

01:06:19.100 --> 01:06:19.800
 Souvenirs, right?

01:06:19.840 --> 01:06:21.020
 And I've got a ton of them.

01:06:21.260 --> 01:06:23.300
 Like I was on this live podcast and this thing.

01:06:23.300 --> 01:06:26.380
 But then those are actual NFTs that can be granted utility.

01:06:26.720 --> 01:06:29.000
 Like, for example, this is like a little side thing.

01:06:29.100 --> 01:06:34.580
 This guy, G Money, that did these live podcasts that I claimed POAPs while they were live, while he did these live podcasts,

01:06:34.960 --> 01:06:38.540
 later did a deal with Adidas and dropped this huge thing called Into the Metaverse,

01:06:38.860 --> 01:06:41.800
 which was this big deal with Bored Ape and Adidas.

01:06:41.900 --> 01:06:43.060
 And they dropped this NFT project.

01:06:43.340 --> 01:06:47.940
 And I was whitelisted for that project because I had a free POAP from being on one of his first podcasts.

01:06:48.060 --> 01:06:51.600
 Like not on it, just like attending and listening to it live, right?

01:06:51.600 --> 01:06:52.240
 So, okay.

01:06:52.600 --> 01:06:55.980
 Now, there's another platform called Snapshot.

01:06:56.640 --> 01:07:01.300
 Snapshot is what most DAOs use for governance because it uses like a roll-up of voting.

01:07:01.700 --> 01:07:04.300
 So it is on-chain, kind of not on-chain.

01:07:04.460 --> 01:07:07.640
 So it settles on-chain for a vote, right?

01:07:08.160 --> 01:07:15.360
 So this is because one of the – so now maybe the church says we're going to use this POAP as a way to say you participated in something

01:07:15.360 --> 01:07:18.260
 or to say this is like a membership token.

01:07:18.660 --> 01:07:22.060
 Like when you do X, Y, and Z, we want to give this to you as membership.

01:07:22.060 --> 01:07:27.240
 And maybe we're going to run a little setup night where we get everyone together for pizza and drinks and we're hanging out.

01:07:27.320 --> 01:07:29.360
 We're going to show everyone how to set up a MetaMask wallet.

01:07:29.760 --> 01:07:31.500
 And it's a membership class.

01:07:31.700 --> 01:07:33.360
 And at this class, you get this POAP.

01:07:33.500 --> 01:07:39.140
 Now, everyone that has that POAP gets like, I don't know, access to X, Y, and Z, whatever.

01:07:40.080 --> 01:07:41.700
 But then you go on Snapshot.

01:07:41.820 --> 01:07:47.380
 So here's what I think is interesting because churches typically should give some money to some stuff, right?

01:07:47.440 --> 01:07:49.600
 Like you said, oh, we want not a single orphan.

01:07:49.740 --> 01:07:56.180
 But typically from a very centralized leadership, top-down way, strong leaders, cast vision,

01:07:56.240 --> 01:07:59.640
 and try to talk their people into some like missionary pet project.

01:07:59.780 --> 01:08:03.080
 We're going to build this well in this place where my buddy has an orphanage or whatever.

01:08:03.580 --> 01:08:05.100
 Okay, how about the opposite?

01:08:05.500 --> 01:08:12.040
 How about you just take your church budget, you take whatever sum of money you can, and you put it in a wallet.

01:08:12.680 --> 01:08:19.080
 And then you say to your people, now, all I'm going to preach is the mission of the kingdom of God.

01:08:19.480 --> 01:08:23.420
 So the mission, Jesus came to represent the mission of God.

01:08:23.500 --> 01:08:25.580
 And this church doesn't have a mission.

01:08:25.720 --> 01:08:27.040
 We belong to a mission.

01:08:27.180 --> 01:08:28.200
 We belong to his mission.

01:08:28.400 --> 01:08:29.860
 And I'm going to proclaim that mission.

01:08:30.020 --> 01:08:36.940
 And then I'm going to say, hey, all of you that have these tokens, there is now a platform we have.

01:08:37.000 --> 01:08:37.820
 We're going to set this up.

01:08:37.900 --> 01:08:38.880
 It's called Snapshot.

01:08:38.960 --> 01:08:42.140
 And you can make proposals on what we should do with this money.

01:08:42.700 --> 01:08:44.500
 How should we love our city?

01:08:45.060 --> 01:08:48.260
 How should we embody the kingdom in our city?

01:08:49.420 --> 01:08:51.240
 Tapping the genius of the collective.

01:08:52.400 --> 01:08:58.940
 And then you can now, you can free vote on Snapshot using a po-op.

01:08:58.940 --> 01:09:02.640
 There's a little bit of like, someone's got to be a little techie to set that up.

01:09:03.060 --> 01:09:08.840
 Now you have membership, utility, governance for $0.

01:09:10.660 --> 01:09:17.240
 And now the church can fund this entire thing and go, here is money that we've gathered through tithes and offerings.

01:09:17.340 --> 01:09:24.680
 We're going to put this in here and go, this is earmarked for you to spend together to answer our prayer.

01:09:24.800 --> 01:09:28.780
 May your kingdom come, may your will be done in this city as it is in heaven.

01:09:28.860 --> 01:09:32.980
 And I, Mr. Pastor Man, am not in charge of this.

01:09:32.980 --> 01:09:47.000
 My only job is to just proclaim the overarching ethos and mission of God's people and you respond in faith and you take ownership of this.

01:09:47.040 --> 01:09:53.440
 So now I took you from a participant to engage in governance to owning, owning.

01:09:53.860 --> 01:10:01.720
 And so, again, this isn't one person holding a steering wheel, but everyone reaching ecstatically toward the dreams of the community.

01:10:02.280 --> 01:10:16.880
 And that is a very different reality that looks a lot like ecstatic worship and mission versus a boring church service with a centralized pastor with a top-down vision doing this thing.

01:10:16.880 --> 01:10:25.420
 And I think, like, and I'm going, okay, that, by the way, I'm like, this is a very dual, like, you could put a link to everything I said in there.

01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:30.740
 And that is one, two, three steps, and it costs $0 for anyone to do.

01:10:30.900 --> 01:10:33.580
 And I'm so excited because I just figured this out.

01:10:33.760 --> 01:10:37.820
 I've been beating my head against the wall trying to figure out how I could do this with poor people.

01:10:38.060 --> 01:10:39.840
 And I'm like, I could do this with poor people.

01:10:40.080 --> 01:10:43.460
 The problem is I don't have a bunch of money to deposit into a wallet.

01:10:43.540 --> 01:10:55.080
 So if anyone wants to hook it up, we could do some type of projects around here because I'm trying – because now we can legitimately give money to the poor and have them on-chain govern it accountably.

01:10:56.300 --> 01:10:57.400
 It can actually be done.

01:10:57.400 --> 01:11:03.840
 Like, you can actually just not go, we're going to do this for the poor, with the poor, among the poor.

01:11:04.060 --> 01:11:14.480
 You can just empower them and let them decide what they want for their future and determine their own hoped-for outcomes and govern their own lives.

01:11:14.640 --> 01:11:24.620
 And you support and push out resources to the ecosystem, a lot like I quoted in the Ethereum Foundation paper, which I think is actually something the church should be doing.

01:11:24.620 --> 01:11:37.400
 So that's my advice for the 600-person congregation in Arkansas, how they might have a little bit of a roadmap because I wanted to start from the practical building to that thing.

01:11:37.700 --> 01:11:45.200
 Now all those beautiful ideas about the orphans and the homeless and the widows and the – it's like, all right, now we make some decisions.

01:11:46.200 --> 01:11:47.060
 No, you're exactly right.

01:11:47.100 --> 01:11:56.920
 That's what I meant earlier too when I said that's what threatens the centralized institutional church and why – but why this is so significant.

01:11:57.100 --> 01:12:01.200
 Remember when I said that you should give the money back to the people, right?

01:12:01.260 --> 01:12:03.580
 Like, you hit it on the head, John, and it's –

01:12:03.580 --> 01:12:04.860
 You're horrified by that idea.

01:12:05.360 --> 01:12:06.140
 Totally horrified.

01:12:06.140 --> 01:12:07.160
 And I think –

01:12:07.160 --> 01:12:08.200
 They should be.

01:12:08.200 --> 01:12:08.460
 But how –

01:12:08.460 --> 01:12:09.520
 That's why we kill the prophets.

01:12:10.220 --> 01:12:10.920
 That's right.

01:12:11.200 --> 01:12:13.020
 But how powerful would it be?

01:12:13.420 --> 01:12:16.380
 Like, take the orphan idea for – or even hunger.

01:12:16.800 --> 01:12:18.020
 Take hunger, for example.

01:12:18.200 --> 01:12:26.580
 If it wasn't the pastor saying, we're going to do X and it's going to be centralized, but saying, how about a few of you who are passionate about hunger?

01:12:27.040 --> 01:12:28.680
 You get together and start a doubt.

01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:37.540
 As you give, as you give to the institutional church, if you all think that's something we should – then we'll deposit money to that.

01:12:37.800 --> 01:12:39.120
 And you guys run with it.

01:12:39.180 --> 01:12:40.920
 You'll also give your own money into it.

01:12:40.960 --> 01:12:44.540
 And that's how you can get yours funded, is you know good and well.

01:12:44.660 --> 01:12:49.100
 There are plenty of businessmen and women who are Jesus followers in your community.

01:12:49.100 --> 01:13:06.180
 If they knew that they can give directly into that now for you to provide for your people, for the people that you're engaging with and needing and loving and equipping, for them to be able to engage in the kingdom in that way and decide on where resources could go, they'd get to it.

01:13:07.220 --> 01:13:09.240
 And that's the thing – I agree with you.

01:13:09.320 --> 01:13:10.840
 I mean, I think you hit it right on the head.

01:13:10.840 --> 01:13:15.260
 I think you hit it right on the practical example of, again, just do one thing.

01:13:15.260 --> 01:13:30.900
 Like, you don't need the pastor's permission to do what we just described, but it would be incredible if he would get up on a Sunday morning and say, hey, we want you guys to decide this and to publicly affirm that.

01:13:31.460 --> 01:13:42.440
 One of my favorite ways that people refer to the blockchain is permissionless because that's just the world I want to live in.

01:13:42.520 --> 01:13:43.860
 I'm just like, I don't care.

01:13:43.940 --> 01:13:44.900
 I don't need your permission.

01:13:45.540 --> 01:13:45.840
 Sure.

01:13:46.460 --> 01:13:47.520
 And I just love that.

01:13:47.840 --> 01:13:48.420
 But that's it.

01:13:48.640 --> 01:13:49.340
 That's exactly right.

01:13:49.400 --> 01:13:49.960
 But you're right.

01:13:50.080 --> 01:13:52.660
 How much greater if we go, yeah, let's all affirm that.

01:13:52.760 --> 01:13:59.680
 Wherever your situation is, it's like we say we want to put the kingdom first.

01:13:59.800 --> 01:14:03.260
 And anything that comes before that is, what, idolatry?

01:14:04.060 --> 01:14:14.840
 So whether that is our own survival or our position or our job or our structures, like, we got to be willing to hold those things with an open hand or to lay down our lives.

01:14:15.980 --> 01:14:18.080
 I love everything that I've just heard.

01:14:19.280 --> 01:14:22.140
 I'm going to go with so much to say in so little time.

01:14:22.360 --> 01:14:23.620
 I'm going to go on public record.

01:14:24.180 --> 01:14:25.160
 I'm going to launch a DAO.

01:14:25.300 --> 01:14:26.180
 Chesley and I have been talking.

01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:27.640
 We're going to launch a DAO in 23.

01:14:28.560 --> 01:14:34.480
 Even sitting here, like, he and I have had ideas, conversations, been spitballing some stuff back and forth.

01:14:34.620 --> 01:14:37.740
 And I like the one idea we've talked about, even just in this conversation.

01:14:38.080 --> 01:14:41.260
 I've got four or five other completely different ideas in my head.

01:14:42.400 --> 01:14:44.480
 And I'm learning some things along the way.

01:14:44.580 --> 01:14:53.860
 And so we're going to continue to have more of these conversations, you know, mic drop, controversial takes, whatever it is.

01:14:53.860 --> 01:15:08.420
 But really, the heart of this is a very, you know, I want to call it a simple approach, an elementary beginning conversation to some really difficult concepts that are coming very soon to the church.

01:15:08.720 --> 01:15:17.960
 And just to affirm what these guys have said, the biggest challenge of the church is to not try to control what's about to come at them.

01:15:18.860 --> 01:15:25.940
 Because you can try to control this movement and try to controlling it is going to limit it.

01:15:26.860 --> 01:15:28.960
 Releasing, empowering.

01:15:29.520 --> 01:15:29.920
 It's funny.

01:15:30.020 --> 01:15:32.560
 I use that permissionless line all the time.

01:15:33.040 --> 01:15:37.080
 You know, culturally, we are moving into a permissionless society.

01:15:37.580 --> 01:15:38.780
 They don't want our permission.

01:15:38.780 --> 01:15:41.820
 And we're also moving into a trustless society.

01:15:41.960 --> 01:15:43.200
 They don't trust us anyway.

01:15:43.200 --> 01:15:49.940
 And so as a result of being trustless and permissionless, we can fight for what people no longer want to give us.

01:15:50.080 --> 01:16:02.260
 Or we can try to figure out how to help, how to empower, how to platform, how to release these movements and try to maybe reevaluate what we see as success.

01:16:03.240 --> 01:16:05.520
 And this has nothing to do with the gospel.

01:16:05.660 --> 01:16:13.500
 This has nothing to do with people's view of Jesus as much as it is understanding it's not happening Sunday morning from a pulpit.

01:16:13.840 --> 01:16:20.160
 It's going to have to look different when we're moving into these permissionless, into these trustless societies.

01:16:20.160 --> 01:16:28.120
 And what we're describing here with a lot of this Tao and decentralization, well, there's just going to be more to come as a result of that.

01:16:28.120 --> 01:16:33.200
 So, hey, look, I want to do John, Jason, the two J's.

01:16:34.420 --> 01:16:35.900
 Isn't that a restaurant, two J's?

01:16:35.920 --> 01:16:37.120
 Do you guys have two J's where you are?

01:16:37.160 --> 01:16:38.640
 Isn't that like a breakfast place now?

01:16:38.900 --> 01:16:39.420
 Maybe that's just it.

01:16:39.420 --> 01:16:39.780
 I think we do.

01:16:39.960 --> 01:16:40.260
 Yeah, we do.

01:16:41.040 --> 01:16:43.960
 It's like a breakfast place in West Palm Beach.

01:16:44.000 --> 01:16:46.760
 And now I'm really embarrassed because that's like a throwback in itself.

01:16:47.080 --> 01:16:48.780
 Hey, listen, I want to do this again.

01:16:49.240 --> 01:16:55.800
 And so we'll schedule a time in August to come together, work through some topics, and continue to dive through here.

01:16:55.940 --> 01:16:59.740
 Like I know, like people are processing this.

01:16:59.820 --> 01:17:00.460
 They're asking this.

01:17:00.520 --> 01:17:01.840
 They don't understand this.

01:17:02.740 --> 01:17:16.740
 And so even putting together Roundtable 1, Roundtable 2 here with the blockchain crypto, the decentralized, the NFTs, the DAOs, like all this is solid information to help us.

01:17:16.800 --> 01:17:19.400
 So once again, thank you guys for this.

01:17:19.900 --> 01:17:27.200
 Within the YouTube links, we'll put links to them, the contacts in their bios, and more information on them.

01:17:27.280 --> 01:17:35.060
 So if you're interested in who they are and what they're doing and how to connect with them directly, feel free to check out YouTube descriptions and we'll go there.

01:17:35.280 --> 01:17:38.060
 But John, Jason, man, this has been solid.

01:17:38.180 --> 01:17:38.860
 Thank you for that.

01:17:38.920 --> 01:17:40.040
 But we're going to land a plane.

01:17:40.260 --> 01:17:43.160
 So for the two Js, this is Jay 3.

01:17:43.740 --> 01:17:44.520
 We're calling it a show.

01:17:44.640 --> 01:17:45.920
 Thanks, everybody, for this Roundtable.

01:17:46.020 --> 01:17:47.880
 We'll see you, I think, next week.

01:17:48.260 --> 01:17:58.920
 By the way, just to tease what's happening next week, we're going to be talking with Mark Lutz from Lux Digital Church about how to recruit volunteers for Digital Church.

01:17:58.920 --> 01:18:03.540
 And actually hosting that's going to be Dr. John Harris from Hearts Like His.

01:18:03.760 --> 01:18:07.640
 So two digital pastors talking about recruiting volunteers.

01:18:07.760 --> 01:18:12.520
 By the way, both those guys are very strong disciple-making in their digital church.

01:18:12.660 --> 01:18:17.520
 So definitely an interesting conversation seeing that pivot in the new model of church.

01:18:17.880 --> 01:18:20.900
 So thank you all for being here, and we'll see you next time here at the Roundtable.

01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:21.480
 So y'all have a good one.