WEBVTT 00:00:00.140 --> 00:00:09.840 Even just the idea of church, and at least here, church in North America, the Western world, where it's so often just associated with something that we do on Sunday. 00:00:10.680 --> 00:00:17.000 And there's nothing wrong with that. I think the heart genuinely is, for the most part, in the right place. 00:00:17.280 --> 00:00:28.280 But again, coming out of COVID and seeing this renewed appetite for connection and something that, again, for a lot of people, we weren't able to have in the middle of that. 00:00:28.280 --> 00:00:30.100 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:30.900 --> 00:00:34.880 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:35.320 --> 00:00:39.380 But more than TED for Tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:40.220 --> 00:00:42.080 Is disciple-making possible digitally? 00:00:43.160 --> 00:00:45.080 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:45.860 --> 00:00:48.620 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:51.640 Oh, and where does the metaverse fit into all this? 00:00:52.180 --> 00:00:56.640 Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church plant, 00:00:57.380 --> 00:01:04.300 The Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically. 00:01:05.080 --> 00:01:05.760 Our heart? 00:01:06.260 --> 00:01:11.960 That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on disciple-making that will revolutionize your church. 00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.280 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:15.820 --> 00:01:16.260 Hey, everybody. 00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:18.380 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:01:19.100 --> 00:01:22.900 Hey, it's Jeff here, founder of the Church Digital, co-founder of the Digital Church Network. 00:01:23.640 --> 00:01:24.680 And, oh, I don't know. 00:01:24.740 --> 00:01:25.760 I've got a whole bunch of jobs. 00:01:25.860 --> 00:01:27.840 I don't even keep track of all of them at this point. 00:01:27.900 --> 00:01:30.560 Well, I do because I actually have to, like, work to get a paycheck. 00:01:30.680 --> 00:01:31.180 But it's okay. 00:01:31.300 --> 00:01:34.580 It's a lot of fun when you're helping deal with digital type things. 00:01:34.620 --> 00:01:35.320 And I'm excited. 00:01:35.740 --> 00:01:37.140 I'm excited about this conversation. 00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:37.800 I've been looking. 00:01:38.000 --> 00:01:41.620 I've been waiting for a long time to dig into this topic. 00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:46.020 And it's taken us a while to get things scheduled and to come into it. 00:01:46.140 --> 00:01:52.480 But I am really looking forward to digging into this church and learning more about their approach. 00:01:52.600 --> 00:01:59.980 Because I consider this church one of the most aggressive, if not the most aggressive churches in America. 00:02:00.160 --> 00:02:05.140 And I've talked, at least from a technological standpoint, and I've talked about this with some of their other staff. 00:02:05.240 --> 00:02:08.900 And we've had some other people on the podcast here. 00:02:08.900 --> 00:02:11.000 And to be honest, like, it's funny. 00:02:11.540 --> 00:02:13.440 It's always like this meek approach. 00:02:13.600 --> 00:02:15.720 Like, we don't consider ourselves that aggressive. 00:02:15.820 --> 00:02:16.820 And I'm like, oh, my gosh. 00:02:16.840 --> 00:02:18.860 Do you have any idea compared to some others? 00:02:19.100 --> 00:02:23.320 And, you know, I could dance around and tease what this conversation is going to be for a while. 00:02:23.380 --> 00:02:24.700 But let's forget that. 00:02:24.740 --> 00:02:25.940 Let's just get into it. 00:02:26.240 --> 00:02:35.720 I'm excited to bring into the conversation Jonathan's song from Church Home in, I guess, officially Seattle as well as Los Angeles, right? 00:02:35.720 --> 00:02:39.680 You're a multi-city church. 00:02:40.000 --> 00:02:41.200 Is that how you consider it? 00:02:41.240 --> 00:02:43.620 And then, of course, there's all this stuff you do digitally and online. 00:02:44.340 --> 00:02:48.260 When you tell people where you're from, Jonathan, like, how do you describe that? 00:02:48.540 --> 00:02:53.220 I would say you kind of hit the nail on the head of, you know, historically been, you know, Seattle and Los Angeles. 00:02:53.360 --> 00:02:59.060 I think that's what we've been kind of known for for the most part for the last, especially with L.A. for the last few years. 00:02:59.180 --> 00:03:02.680 But Seattle, you know, we've been a church for 30 years. 00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:05.340 So that's as long as I've been born on this planet. 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:07.280 And I haven't been a part of that whole time. 00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.560 But, yeah, definitely Seattle, Los Angeles. 00:03:09.820 --> 00:03:12.440 And I'm sure we'll kind of jump into the conversation a little bit later. 00:03:12.660 --> 00:03:24.060 But, yeah, even just a little bit of a shift as far as, you know, our model or ministry and even kind of shifting away from multi-site in a sense and becoming more, you know, decentralized. 00:03:24.740 --> 00:03:27.920 So global church, I guess, is a way to put it. 00:03:28.060 --> 00:03:30.740 But it's, yeah, there's a lot of nuances and stuff to it. 00:03:30.820 --> 00:03:33.720 But just for the sake of this, we'll say Seattle and L.A. for sure. 00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:34.200 Wow. 00:03:34.260 --> 00:03:36.140 He just said the word decentralized church. 00:03:36.240 --> 00:03:41.920 And I may have just trolled a little bit on the podcast because I'm really anxious to get into that conversation. 00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:45.160 And I don't even know that I had planned to get into that part of it. 00:03:45.200 --> 00:03:46.800 So, hey, we're going to see how this one goes. 00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:47.760 This is going to be fun. 00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:50.660 But listen, and I've talked about this. 00:03:50.700 --> 00:03:53.680 We've had Mark Venti, who's on the executive team of the church. 00:03:53.700 --> 00:03:55.280 He's been on the podcast several times. 00:03:55.480 --> 00:03:57.700 And he's been a friend over the years. 00:03:57.700 --> 00:04:08.500 And I've just, I've been very excited talking with him about some of the aggressive stances that your church has taken digitally. 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:10.160 Now, we're going to get into pastor chat. 00:04:10.300 --> 00:04:13.720 I want to start to maybe, which is a whole other thing. 00:04:13.780 --> 00:04:17.440 We'll get into a text-based chat, pastoring and shepherding people. 00:04:18.060 --> 00:04:24.780 I do want to explore, like, the decentralized type of thing as much as you're comfortable with that. 00:04:24.780 --> 00:04:31.200 But at the heart of this thing, like, four years ago was really the first time that Church Home got on my radar. 00:04:31.320 --> 00:04:34.980 This is pre-COVID, maybe 2018, maybe 2019. 00:04:35.260 --> 00:04:39.340 Actually, I wrote a blog talking about Judah Smith, your lead pastor. 00:04:39.400 --> 00:04:42.180 I think he was quoted in, like, I'd have to go back and look. 00:04:42.240 --> 00:04:44.580 But I think it was, like, Fox News or CNN. 00:04:44.820 --> 00:04:51.280 It was, like, this guy who thinks that he says that he wants to pastor people via a mobile app. 00:04:51.340 --> 00:04:53.920 And, like, the press went nuts. 00:04:53.920 --> 00:04:57.200 This guy thinks he can pastor people via a mobile app. 00:04:57.320 --> 00:05:03.700 The church world went nuts saying this idiot over here thinks he can pastor people via a mobile app. 00:05:03.940 --> 00:05:08.080 Meanwhile, four years later, like, I got to ask, how's it going? 00:05:08.320 --> 00:05:11.100 Are you pastoring people via a mobile app? 00:05:11.140 --> 00:05:18.040 I got to imagine in this COVID season, you know, that idiot all of a sudden became, like, a prophet talking about, oh, my gosh. 00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:23.280 Look at what are we seeing, what are we doing, the availability to connect with people digitally. 00:05:24.020 --> 00:05:25.840 How's it going now coming out of COVID? 00:05:25.960 --> 00:05:26.820 What's this looking like? 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:31.960 Yeah, I think, yeah, at the time when, you know, at the time even when, you know, I think that was said. 00:05:32.040 --> 00:05:37.340 And even just the idea of, like, a church app and what we're hoping to accomplish, I wasn't even on staff at the time. 00:05:37.560 --> 00:05:41.200 You know, I was, you know, volunteering and attending and those sorts of things. 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.840 And, yeah, very radical idea. 00:05:43.940 --> 00:05:44.780 I think you kind of nailed it. 00:05:44.860 --> 00:05:47.900 Almost, you know, aggressive as far as, like, technology. 00:05:48.320 --> 00:05:59.520 You know, I think the whole idea of the app in general was, it's just a way that people can connect to, you know, of course, like, our content messages, you know, that had been happening already. 00:05:59.860 --> 00:06:04.160 And so, but, you know, just continuing to see just a continued need. 00:06:04.200 --> 00:06:08.300 And this is for every church as well, but just a continued need for connection and community. 00:06:08.300 --> 00:06:18.300 And so, even the idea of, like, having a mobile app, and not like that, not that that was something so revolutionary at the time, like, you know, churches had apps and things like that. 00:06:18.420 --> 00:06:27.120 But, you know, just taking a look at our trends in the world today and just even the practical of, you know, whether or not someone might agree with it or not. 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:30.700 It's just the reality, like, how much we are so dependent on technology. 00:06:31.120 --> 00:06:37.200 And, you know, if you're like me and you look at your screen time and you're not proud of it, to be honest, you know, it's like the mini win. 00:06:37.380 --> 00:06:45.260 You know, when you get the notification that, you know, your screen time was down 10% from last week, I'm like, yes, I'm, like, crushing it right now. 00:06:46.020 --> 00:06:58.700 But the whole idea, I think, was just using technology as a means and leveraging technology where, again, we do so many of our everyday, you know, for fun, for even work, those sorts of things, which is so convenient. 00:06:58.700 --> 00:07:06.320 And it's, you know, the idea of someone that just needs, like, a little, like, spark in the day, you know, maybe a cup of coffee is not doing it. 00:07:06.340 --> 00:07:09.140 But it's like, I need to hear just, like, a quick, like, just encouragement. 00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.280 I need to hear something from scripture or things like that. 00:07:12.360 --> 00:07:18.620 And we just thought, wow, it would be cool in a sense of why not having what essentially is like having church in your pocket. 00:07:19.220 --> 00:07:23.780 And, again, you know, for an app, it's not just created to be a platform for, like, content. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.180 Obviously, that's a big part of it. 00:07:25.240 --> 00:07:30.320 But, again, the hope of it is how can we leverage it to build genuine church community from that? 00:07:30.440 --> 00:07:37.480 And so, you know, based on, like, how the app, you know, the idea of the app and people connecting to groups near them location-wise. 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:45.960 And this will kind of even send to probably a bigger conversation about just, you know, what we feel like God has called us as a church to do in the future. 00:07:46.520 --> 00:07:57.320 We're just kind of thinking, how can we be a little bit more innovative and be creative and have a pioneering attitude of, you know, people are using their phone for, like, literally everything else in their lives. 00:07:57.320 --> 00:08:07.340 And so, why not use that as a means for people that it serves to, again, the whole idea is to point people, help people connect with God and to help connect with community. 00:08:07.800 --> 00:08:16.260 So, yeah, definitely at the time it's been over these last few years, which that's also just insane to think it's been that amount of time. 00:08:16.420 --> 00:08:22.100 And even just the timing of it with, you know, church home, we've, you know, previously been the city church. 00:08:22.100 --> 00:08:32.240 So, we've been, you know, we renamed the whole idea of the app and, you know, we'll jump into, like, past your time, these sorts of things where, you know, we're ready to, like, soft launch and, like, really be aggressive and promoting. 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:37.660 And then, lo and behold, who would have ever thought that a global pandemic would happen in our lifetime? 00:08:37.660 --> 00:08:40.360 And it literally happened as the pandemic was starting. 00:08:40.360 --> 00:08:44.260 And so, it's, by no means am I saying it's a blessing in disguise. 00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:45.660 Obviously, not at all. 00:08:45.800 --> 00:08:49.940 But just the timing was so crazy where then, now everything was forced to go digital. 00:08:50.420 --> 00:08:52.320 You know, whether churches were prepared for it or not. 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:58.460 And we just, it's just, like, the timing of it above anything was just, like, so, so crazy. 00:08:58.640 --> 00:09:05.560 And, again, to see where it is today and continuing to build off of that, we think it's been really successful. 00:09:05.760 --> 00:09:07.580 And we just want to continue to build from that. 00:09:07.860 --> 00:09:08.920 This is beautiful. 00:09:08.920 --> 00:09:13.280 Now, you've just described your mobile app, but you're starting to. 00:09:13.900 --> 00:09:19.180 And you're using some words that, you know, everybody, every church describes their mobile app. 00:09:19.240 --> 00:09:22.100 And so, I want to drill in a little bit here. 00:09:22.100 --> 00:09:29.340 Like, when we're talking pastoring people via a mobile app, yes, Judah's sermon may play a part in it. 00:09:29.800 --> 00:09:39.420 But pastoring people, shepherding people via a mobile app is something that describes and it sounds far more relational. 00:09:39.660 --> 00:09:42.520 So, I mean, you're utilizing the words building genuine church community. 00:09:42.520 --> 00:09:52.400 And I dare say the average church mobile app in America does not really get to that place of community. 00:09:52.400 --> 00:10:00.880 We're looking at doing things far beyond distributing the weekend service content or anything like that specifically. 00:10:01.200 --> 00:10:06.720 So, I mean, could you maybe talk a little bit here specifically, Pastor Chat. 00:10:07.180 --> 00:10:08.500 What does this mean? 00:10:08.580 --> 00:10:13.980 Maybe what are some examples of how people are utilizing this to build or to engage in community? 00:10:14.060 --> 00:10:23.900 Yeah, I think even the whole idea with things like Pastor Chat, even at the time when, you know, we've launched the app, I had been hired onto the team to help be part of the Pastor Chat team. 00:10:24.220 --> 00:10:27.360 And again, that's literally like right when the pandemic started. 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:29.700 So, that was just, again, the timing was crazy. 00:10:29.920 --> 00:10:40.060 But, you know, it's one of those things too, I think, even from, for us as pastors and leaders doing ministry, there's just so much, obviously, it's always about people, right? 00:10:40.100 --> 00:10:45.880 Being with people, there's a lot of, you know, things that people need, you know, prayer about or just want to, you know, talk with someone. 00:10:45.940 --> 00:10:54.060 Just have someone that maybe not necessarily is going to talk at them, but just an avenue where people can have someone that can listen. 00:10:54.060 --> 00:11:10.640 And sometimes, you know, as much as I love, you know, the coffee meetings and, hey, let's, you know, do those sorts of things, even just from the sake of efficiency and, you know, people's time, it's, you know, as much as I'd love to have a, you know, me personally, I'd love to have, you know, half an hour coffee meetings all the time, you know, every day. 00:11:10.820 --> 00:11:13.540 I only have so many hours in the day that I can do things. 00:11:13.540 --> 00:11:19.660 And even for people, it's like, it's just maybe not conducive to, you know, I just, I need to talk with someone, but like trying to set up this meeting. 00:11:19.660 --> 00:11:35.820 So even the idea of pastor chat, which it, what it is, it's a live chat platform that we've created where currently it's on our website and even on our mobile app, where it's literally like anyone can message in about almost anything that they want. 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:43.460 And it's, you know, it's certainly not meant to be like counseling or, you know, we're not licensed like therapists or anything, but sometimes people like, hey, I'm just like going through something like quick. 00:11:43.840 --> 00:11:57.080 I just would love like a quick prayer said over me or even when it comes to the community aspect of, you know, however, someone came to learn about church home and hear about us, what we're doing and the wanting to get involved. 00:11:57.080 --> 00:11:59.380 Like, hey, I live in so-and-so city. 00:12:00.580 --> 00:12:09.160 Is there like a group that's near me where I can be around people that love God and can, you know, help build me up and encourage me, those sorts of things. 00:12:09.160 --> 00:12:12.100 And so that's really like the whole idea of pastor chat. 00:12:12.180 --> 00:12:13.060 It's pastor chat. 00:12:13.160 --> 00:12:28.040 It's really to be an on-ramp for any spectrum that someone is on the faith spectrum, whether someone that has been part of church home or been part of community for years and years, or someone that's like, I don't know who God is. 00:12:28.340 --> 00:12:29.300 Tell me more about God. 00:12:29.380 --> 00:12:30.160 Who is this Jesus? 00:12:30.340 --> 00:12:31.100 Can you tell me more? 00:12:31.140 --> 00:12:31.720 I'm interested. 00:12:32.540 --> 00:12:35.600 And so that's kind of the genesis of pastor chat. 00:12:35.600 --> 00:12:46.360 It's a way for us as a, as a church and a ministry to be able to serve people in a different way that maybe is more just effective for them and just more conducive. 00:12:47.580 --> 00:12:51.000 And it's also just to help even maximize how many people that we can serve. 00:12:51.100 --> 00:12:56.500 And not the important thing is the number of people, but it's kind of just meeting people where they're at. 00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:12.740 And, you know, for a lot of these conversations that are very pastoral in nature, it might be the person that, again, with speaking with like the coffee meeting example, they might not even be comfortable, you know, meeting someone in person and talking about these very real, you know, things that might be going on in life. 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:16.160 But it's way easier to be, you can be anonymous, essentially. 00:13:16.460 --> 00:13:22.880 And, hey, I just need prayer about something that's happening in my life or just want to talk about things or I need scripture or something like that. 00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:31.040 And so, again, we just saw this as, again, an opportunity to not only serve our, you know, our church, our community that, you know, have been around forever. 00:13:31.160 --> 00:13:43.980 But, again, as we want to be, you know, the best at telling the story of Jesus to the world and reaching new people, it's a platform that if someone's not necessarily, again, located where we have buildings and those sorts of things, hey, they can still connect with church home. 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:46.740 You're just as much as part of church home than anyone else. 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:53.020 And so, yeah, that's really, again, what we've really, really loved about the platform. 00:13:53.240 --> 00:13:55.620 And, again, it's a way that people can connect. 00:13:55.980 --> 00:13:56.080 Yeah. 00:13:56.160 --> 00:14:02.460 So you're rattling a bunch of cages right now, pastoring via a texting platform. 00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:07.400 You're not able to see the people that you're conversing with. 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.300 You're not breathing the same air molecules. 00:14:09.300 --> 00:14:18.120 Like, there's a lot of disruptive – I mean, I don't feel disruptive having this conversation, but it's a disruptive idea. 00:14:18.580 --> 00:14:19.460 I totally get it. 00:14:19.500 --> 00:14:20.180 I'm just curious. 00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:26.220 Are the people that are engaging – like, we talked about Seattle. 00:14:26.360 --> 00:14:27.380 We talked about Los Angeles. 00:14:27.520 --> 00:14:37.180 If you're watching on YouTube, like, there's literally behind him, there's the two maps of Seattle and Los Angeles are in his – like, are hanging on his wall. 00:14:37.180 --> 00:14:39.200 So those two regions are important. 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:40.040 You said decentralized. 00:14:40.820 --> 00:14:46.000 Obviously, mobile – if you're in a mobile app digital, it scales and it grows very quickly. 00:14:46.980 --> 00:14:51.740 Are you seeing – are you engaging with people primarily surrounding the physical area? 00:14:52.180 --> 00:14:59.080 Are you seeing it grow beyond – I know we haven't really talked about decentralized yet, but what's the reach of this thing? 00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:01.280 And who's really engaging with it? 00:15:01.280 --> 00:15:02.640 I mean, let's even back up. 00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:07.320 Your lead pastor, Judah, is a little bit of an influencer online. 00:15:08.500 --> 00:15:13.220 You've got – Biebs was involved in the church, Justin Bieber, for a stretch. 00:15:13.280 --> 00:15:14.080 He may still be. 00:15:14.380 --> 00:15:16.860 So the church has got some spread. 00:15:17.540 --> 00:15:20.180 Like, is that influencing who's using this? 00:15:20.780 --> 00:15:24.140 Who's really coming in to be pastored via the app? 00:15:24.140 --> 00:15:28.720 The first – I think the most important thing that you had said the word is reach. 00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:33.820 And this is even, again, prior to, you know, our app or anything like that. 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:47.260 But even just seeing, you know, with our content, such as podcasts or YouTube or things like that, you know, we've seen that, you know, a lot of people, for whatever reason, we're listening to, you know, our sermons or things that we're doing, paying attention. 00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:53.500 That, again, don't live in Seattle or Los Angeles where we have, you know, church buildings and those sorts of stuff. 00:15:53.500 --> 00:15:57.640 And so – and that's kind of the amazing thing about Pastor Chat. 00:15:57.740 --> 00:16:03.200 For me, you know, being able to have the privilege to lead the team now that helps operate it. 00:16:03.620 --> 00:16:12.180 The reach is something that is so mind-boggling to me of, again, however someone came to hear about Church Home or messages or anything like that. 00:16:12.520 --> 00:16:19.780 I mean, we'll get chats from people that honestly are from countries that I didn't know were countries, which is awesome. 00:16:19.880 --> 00:16:23.820 I think, you know, it's, again, the whole point of, you know, spreading the gospel to the ends of the earth. 00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:28.960 And that's such – what a time that we live where, again, we can upload, like, a message on YouTube. 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:33.940 And it's amazing to see just who's engaging with us. 00:16:34.300 --> 00:16:37.180 And, again, as a church – and we're no different than any church. 00:16:37.300 --> 00:16:39.000 You know, I think we all have the mission. 00:16:39.160 --> 00:16:41.520 Like, what we do is we want to reach people for Jesus. 00:16:42.420 --> 00:16:50.760 And so, however that comes to be, what a privilege it is to be able to, for a lot of the times, introduce someone to Jesus for the very first time. 00:16:50.820 --> 00:16:53.120 And it's through a live chat platform. 00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:58.980 And so, even to your kind of initial question, this is not a totally accurate number. 00:16:59.060 --> 00:17:00.040 This is really gut feel. 00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:02.840 I probably should have been a little more prepared for this. 00:17:03.040 --> 00:17:12.980 But the amount of conversations that I'm getting, I would say probably about, like, 98% of them are from people that do not live in the greater Seattle or Los Angeles area. 00:17:12.980 --> 00:17:17.880 I mean, it's happening from, I would say, almost probably every state in the country. 00:17:18.140 --> 00:17:22.320 Again, country – yeah, every state in the United States, countries all around the world. 00:17:22.420 --> 00:17:25.720 Again, countries that I didn't know existed, if I'm honest. 00:17:25.960 --> 00:17:33.860 And it's just, again, such a privilege of, you know, however that reach happens, however someone interacts with church and we're heard about us. 00:17:35.300 --> 00:17:37.740 I think it's just, like, yeah, absolutely. 00:17:38.100 --> 00:17:39.800 Like, that's what we're called to do. 00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:42.520 Like, we're called to reach people for Jesus. 00:17:42.880 --> 00:17:51.400 And so, again, it's just, like, a lot of times, it's even in the middle of, like, work, you know, what we call work and all these sorts of things. 00:17:51.460 --> 00:18:02.820 It's just so, like, incredibly just mind-blowing to, like, take a step back and just, wow, like, this is the reach that, you know, our platform has. 00:18:03.560 --> 00:18:05.200 So, yeah, it's pretty incredible. 00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:08.180 Okay, I'm not going to quote 98%. 00:18:08.180 --> 00:18:09.200 Please don't quote that. 00:18:09.300 --> 00:18:10.280 That's gut feel. 00:18:10.500 --> 00:18:17.740 But I would love – like, I would love that number because even if it's a 90s range, like, that's incredible. 00:18:17.740 --> 00:18:27.980 Nine out of ten people that are asking for prayer, that are asking for connection, that are asking for help, are outside of the physical reach of the church. 00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:33.340 You know, we talk – I talk a lot digitally that digital gives us the opportunity to reach a different type of person. 00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:34.900 That our buildings are reaching. 00:18:35.480 --> 00:18:40.720 And right now, what you just said without realizing it is actually, like, the proof of that. 00:18:40.820 --> 00:18:47.660 And so, that's where I – if you could give me a tighter number or a range than 90, like, I will start screaming that from the rooftops. 00:18:47.660 --> 00:18:50.980 That's an incredible, incredible movement. 00:18:51.160 --> 00:18:53.320 Let me ask because, I mean – all right. 00:18:53.620 --> 00:19:12.540 So, someone out there, some purist, some Luddite, some technological hater is going to hear this and say, yeah, but Jeff, what you can do digitally, what you can do via text, it's still not as good as being in online – in physical community. 00:19:12.540 --> 00:19:18.800 Like, these people are missing out by doing this, and yes, there may be some truth to that. 00:19:18.900 --> 00:19:20.600 Like, I'm willing to have that conversation. 00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:22.120 But I would love your take. 00:19:22.200 --> 00:19:31.020 Do you feel like you lose anything from the relationship by texting via a keyboard or using your thumbs on a phone? 00:19:31.020 --> 00:19:39.060 Like, what is the perceived loss from you, the person and the persons, leading the persons who are doing this? 00:19:39.420 --> 00:19:40.920 No, yeah, really, really great question. 00:19:41.220 --> 00:19:42.540 It's one that's very valid. 00:19:43.380 --> 00:19:51.340 I think at the end of the day, there are pros and cons to both, whether, you know, for speaking from a, you know, pastoring people or just loving people, supporting people. 00:19:51.480 --> 00:19:53.820 You know, what's more effective? 00:19:54.160 --> 00:19:56.500 Is it, you know, the in-person element or is it the digital? 00:19:57.140 --> 00:20:02.220 I think probably the bigger question is – or not even the question, it's why not both? 00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:03.660 Why does it have to be either or? 00:20:03.900 --> 00:20:05.700 Why could it not be both and? 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:08.900 Because, again, I think there are pros and cons to both. 00:20:09.560 --> 00:20:15.400 You know, from the in-person standpoint, I think I'd kind of said, again, like, I love having the 30-minute meetings or such. 00:20:15.520 --> 00:20:17.340 Like, let's get a quick coffee and let's catch up. 00:20:17.860 --> 00:20:20.520 30 minutes, that adds up quick, one after another, you know? 00:20:20.620 --> 00:20:25.940 And so, again, it's like there's only so many people that I'm able to – just to be with in that sense. 00:20:26.760 --> 00:20:35.540 And even when it comes to the digital or online methods, yeah, you probably do maybe lose a little bit as far as – you know, like you and I are chatting right now. 00:20:35.540 --> 00:20:40.960 We don't maybe necessarily see the facial expression or the body language or the tone of voice. 00:20:41.200 --> 00:20:47.480 You know, it's very easy to read something in a text and assume this is how the person's, like, thinking as they're typing. 00:20:47.600 --> 00:20:51.380 So maybe you lose a little bit of that when it comes to the digital. 00:20:51.660 --> 00:20:59.260 But on the flip side as well, because it is online and you don't have to be sitting across from me to talk about things. 00:20:59.320 --> 00:21:00.320 Maybe you don't know who I am. 00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:04.780 It's like, oh, that's intimidating to begin with, to have a coffee meeting with someone that I don't even know. 00:21:05.540 --> 00:21:09.140 Or, again, it could be very personal, very, like, deep, personal things. 00:21:09.280 --> 00:21:10.980 It's just, like, not easy to talk about. 00:21:11.620 --> 00:21:17.980 In a sense, again, they may never, ever decide to want to, like, meet in person or talk about it. 00:21:18.060 --> 00:21:22.980 But, hey, through digital means, through – where, again, you could be anonymous if you would like to be. 00:21:24.040 --> 00:21:35.400 You know, how many more of those conversations can we have now because we've opened that opportunity versus, again, people that are maybe a little bit more shy in nature or, again, very – just don't want to be, like, super vulnerable like that. 00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:39.060 And so, you know, again, it comes to – yeah, again, you're going to have pros and cons. 00:21:39.100 --> 00:21:40.860 You might lose things both ways. 00:21:40.960 --> 00:21:45.620 And so, again, for us, it's a matter of why not be able to provide both. 00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:51.440 And if we're going to say we want to reach people where they're at, also understanding that every person is going to be different. 00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:58.360 And so just providing as many opportunities as possible for someone to connect whatever is most conducive for them. 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:04.780 What lessons, what mistakes, what challenges, what are the iterations? 00:22:05.260 --> 00:22:06.660 Like, maybe – let me ask this. 00:22:06.760 --> 00:22:07.440 Let's drill in. 00:22:07.860 --> 00:22:11.260 What were some mistakes that were made early on that were corrected? 00:22:11.420 --> 00:22:15.160 Maybe somebody out there is wanting to think about doing something like this. 00:22:15.320 --> 00:22:22.820 Like, what's the big failure that everybody's going to hit that you can help them prevent and move beyond? 00:22:22.820 --> 00:22:37.580 I think even prior to launching the idea of Pastor Chat and the actual platform, you know, as a team, we wanted to be, like, prepared for, you know, people are going to message us about, you know, they're going through some very real-life, hard things in life. 00:22:37.580 --> 00:22:42.980 And it's like, how do I, one, respond and encourage someone? 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:47.000 But two, how can I, like, communicate that the most effectively? 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:50.360 Again, via text because it's so hard. 00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:54.100 Things can get, you know, lost in translation in a sense. 00:22:54.560 --> 00:23:01.220 And that's another thing, too, is even in that preparation, you kind of think, oh, yeah, I'm going to be able to nail this conversation. 00:23:01.420 --> 00:23:05.780 I know someone's probably going to, you know, this, you know, thing comes up and, like, I'm well prepared. 00:23:05.900 --> 00:23:08.800 And then you're thrown in the thick of it and it's happening live. 00:23:08.840 --> 00:23:10.140 It's not like a test or anything. 00:23:10.480 --> 00:23:13.680 And it's like, oh, I don't, I don't actually know anymore. 00:23:13.680 --> 00:23:15.260 Like, I'm, like, totally frozen. 00:23:15.540 --> 00:23:22.920 And I think a lot of it, too, for a lot of the conversation that we have are about, like, theology or even just about God. 00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:25.700 And not that we're ever claiming to be, like, experts in theology. 00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:32.580 But a lot of it, it's just one of, I think, the biggest mistakes is just making assumptions about people. 00:23:32.660 --> 00:23:34.380 It's like, oh, they're messaging on our platform. 00:23:34.480 --> 00:23:35.840 They know all about Jesus already. 00:23:35.840 --> 00:23:44.480 They already know about, you know, the death, burial, resurrection, all these things that, you know, for those of us that have been following Jesus for a matter of time. 00:23:44.960 --> 00:23:49.420 Almost these things that we, I don't want to say take for granted, but it's like, oh, of course, like, everyone knows that. 00:23:49.760 --> 00:23:54.960 But then we have the mistake of, you know, someone's messaging about, hey, tell me more about Jesus. 00:23:55.140 --> 00:23:55.720 I'm interested. 00:23:56.180 --> 00:24:02.000 And then it's, well, now, okay, well, now this is my opportunity to communicate the gospel. 00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:03.540 Am I being actually the most efficient? 00:24:03.640 --> 00:24:04.820 Do I actually even believe this? 00:24:05.440 --> 00:24:06.720 Or even, like, certain things? 00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:07.880 Do I even believe this anymore? 00:24:08.260 --> 00:24:11.200 Or does, like, is this able to be communicated clearly? 00:24:11.200 --> 00:24:27.200 And so I think that's been maybe not the mistake, but I think just something that maybe we weren't anticipating is just, again, people from the whole range of the spectrum, from someone that has no idea even how to read the Bible, where to start, who God is, none of these things, right? 00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:30.920 All the way to the person that's been following Jesus for 50 years. 00:24:31.340 --> 00:24:35.560 And that's, I think, like, the biggest lesson is just, you just never know. 00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:37.400 Just don't make assumptions about people. 00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:42.700 And, again, it kind of leans back to your initial point about the reach. 00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:46.480 That was, like, we were kind of anticipating, but we actually had no idea. 00:24:46.900 --> 00:24:50.440 And so it just, there's so much, again, so much preparation that you can do. 00:24:50.660 --> 00:24:56.760 But at the end of the day, you just never know, and you can't assume anything about anyone. 00:24:56.900 --> 00:24:58.940 Again, people that are seeking to learn about God. 00:24:59.300 --> 00:25:04.420 Again, what a privilege it is that we can introduce someone to the gospel through, you know, this platform. 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:13.300 And so that's always, and even to this day, you know, years later, it's something that we're continuously, like, how do we be the best at telling the gospel? 00:25:13.580 --> 00:25:17.120 How do we make it even more clear that it's like, oh, of course, like, it makes sense. 00:25:17.120 --> 00:25:21.860 But for the person that doesn't have the benefit of, oh, I've been to church before, or those sorts of things. 00:25:22.560 --> 00:25:27.880 You know, you're talking a lot about theology, and it's a wide range of need. 00:25:28.360 --> 00:25:31.700 I'm curious, are you dealing with pastors? 00:25:32.060 --> 00:25:39.780 Like, as you're managing, as you're building your teams, are these pastors on the church side that are engaging with these people? 00:25:40.040 --> 00:25:41.140 Is it lay people? 00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:42.660 Is it bivocational? 00:25:42.660 --> 00:25:49.200 Like, what is the average person on the church home side that's engaging with these people in need? 00:25:49.420 --> 00:25:51.360 Even for the way that our team is built. 00:25:51.600 --> 00:25:55.100 So, you know, for me, being able to manage and lead the actual pastor chat team. 00:25:55.200 --> 00:26:04.360 So I have people on my team with that, you know, report to me where their sole job is, not their sole job, but their main responsibility is pastor chat. 00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:12.920 But even a big part of that, too, it's, you know, again, there's only so many bodies that we have that can operate pastor chat. 00:26:13.020 --> 00:26:27.680 So even for a lot of our actual pastors on staff and people part of the ministry team, you know, it's almost in part of their job description of, hey, it's also, you'd love, we'd love for you to be actually volunteering on pastor chat as well. 00:26:27.680 --> 00:26:37.780 Because, again, it's part of, hey, if you're a pastor and your sole job is, you know, to connect with people, well, pastor chat is a platform that we have that a lot of people are connecting with. 00:26:37.920 --> 00:26:42.760 And so, yeah, it makes sense for, you know, a lot of our pastors to, hey, also be on pastor chat, you know, when you can. 00:26:43.100 --> 00:26:46.440 So, yeah, but to answer your question, we have actual, like, dedicated staff. 00:26:46.840 --> 00:26:50.680 But, again, pastor chat is all operated from church home staff and pastors. 00:26:51.320 --> 00:26:52.920 So how do you handle, like, 1 a.m.? 00:26:52.920 --> 00:26:58.140 So 1 a.m. Pacific time is 2, 3, 4 a.m. Eastern. 00:26:58.900 --> 00:27:02.860 Like, are you getting global reach overseas where there's a demand for that? 00:27:02.860 --> 00:27:09.220 Like, is it maybe, like, time slipped where somebody can reply back when they're awake six hours later? 00:27:09.380 --> 00:27:14.400 Like, how urgent is pastor chat in some of those after-hour situations? 00:27:14.640 --> 00:27:18.620 Yeah, I would say, to answer your question, how do I handle at 1 a.m.? 00:27:18.620 --> 00:27:20.940 I'm probably fast asleep at that point. 00:27:21.800 --> 00:27:24.600 But even that's, again, about the reach. 00:27:24.720 --> 00:27:34.780 And I think, again, where God is leading our church and, again, the reach of we really weren't anticipating maybe how many people interact. 00:27:34.780 --> 00:27:37.280 And so even currently, we're not, like, 24-7. 00:27:37.540 --> 00:27:42.720 But in the future, how awesome would that be of, you know, our platform? 00:27:42.900 --> 00:27:44.200 Could it be 24-7? 00:27:44.360 --> 00:27:48.600 And so, yeah, currently, you know, we're not 24-7. 00:27:48.760 --> 00:27:50.600 But that's something that we'd love to be able to do in the future. 00:27:50.800 --> 00:28:02.240 But, again, it's one of those things that even when we're not online and someone's not able to chat with the pastor right then and there, you know, there are ways, you know, again, they'll message in and then we'll be able to get back to them once we're back online. 00:28:02.340 --> 00:28:07.300 And so even for most of our staff, a good majority still kind of live on the West Coast. 00:28:07.300 --> 00:28:18.060 And even as we're looking at the West Coast and even as we're looking at expansion and really building from that of, you know, how do we schedule it and have it so we can stay open longer? 00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:23.740 So, for, you know, our international community that they can be able to communicate. 00:28:23.940 --> 00:28:30.400 And even for those on the East Coast, making it a little bit easier for, you know, them to be able to interact. 00:28:30.780 --> 00:28:46.560 Are you, as you're exploring the decentralized model, and I've been talking with Mark Aventi about this, and actually, I think you guys are doing 25 targeted cities somewhere around there. 00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:54.140 I'm actually, I'm down in Miami, Florida, and I know that Miami was one that ended up and actually helped them get connected to a missions partner. 00:28:54.140 --> 00:29:00.420 But could you, could you, are you comfortable speaking to that, maybe describing a little bit of what the decentralized model looks like? 00:29:00.440 --> 00:29:07.820 And I'd love to know how Pastor Chat is maybe coming along and helping or engaging in some of that. 00:29:07.880 --> 00:29:09.500 So can you, can you elaborate a little bit on that? 00:29:09.800 --> 00:29:10.660 Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:20.460 You know, it's been part of, again, I think our journey for the last few years, even I think starting, and I think this has been prior to the, you know, renamed Church Home. 00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:28.840 But, you know, there's all the stats and all the research that even shows, again, COVID played a huge part of that, I think, as well. 00:29:29.100 --> 00:29:39.460 But even just the idea of church, and at least here, church in, you know, North America, in the Western world, where it's so often just associated with, like, something that we do on Sunday. 00:29:40.280 --> 00:29:41.960 And, you know, there's nothing wrong with that. 00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:46.620 You know, I think the heart genuinely is, for the most part, in the right place. 00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:57.940 But, again, coming out of COVID and seeing this, the renewed appetite for connection and something that, again, for a lot of people, we weren't able to have, you know, in the middle of that. 00:29:58.200 --> 00:30:01.860 And, again, really putting the focus back on what the church actually is. 00:30:01.960 --> 00:30:08.280 And it's not about this building that we occupy for a couple hours on a weekend, and it's, like, empty the rest of the week. 00:30:08.360 --> 00:30:11.540 But, no, like, honestly, church is about people. 00:30:11.620 --> 00:30:16.800 I know that's something that's so fundamental and, like, oh, yeah, of course, like, yeah, of course, we all know that that's, like, the basis. 00:30:16.800 --> 00:30:26.080 But that's even the whole idea of, like, church home of, hey, what would it look like if church was not something that you just go to? 00:30:26.380 --> 00:30:28.520 But, again, we are the church. 00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.640 Why couldn't church be a gathering? 00:30:31.880 --> 00:30:33.100 It is a gathering of people. 00:30:33.540 --> 00:30:37.420 But what if that looked like if the gathering was actually in my home? 00:30:37.860 --> 00:30:46.620 Or what if it was, you know, in a place where maybe it's not as intimidating for someone that's brand new of, like, I would never go to a church building on a Sunday. 00:30:46.620 --> 00:30:58.440 But, yeah, I would love to come to a coffee shop or I'd love to, you know, come to, you know, another public space where it's a little bit more intimate and I can connect with God in that manner. 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:14.780 And so, yeah, even if with the rename of church home, to church home, things like pastor chat, and, again, where we just feel like God was leading our church of, let's try to get out of the building as much as a little bit more than we have been. 00:31:14.780 --> 00:31:17.160 And not that we've totally gotten rid of buildings. 00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:19.520 We still have large services and that sort of thing. 00:31:19.600 --> 00:31:21.180 But it's also, like, it's not the end all, be all. 00:31:21.480 --> 00:31:28.780 And even to my point, I think with pastor chat earlier, there's a lot of people out there that are hungry for the gospel, want to know about Jesus. 00:31:29.020 --> 00:31:33.280 But I don't know about the whole, like, church on Sunday thing, like, or it just doesn't work with their schedule. 00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:46.100 And so, yeah, even this whole thing of, like, decentralization of no longer do we want just, like, church to be based on who's going to speak live on Sunday or, you know, what event is happening. 00:31:46.260 --> 00:31:48.840 And those are very important things, too, not to minimize them. 00:31:49.000 --> 00:31:50.700 But, again, it can't be, like, the end all, be all. 00:31:51.260 --> 00:32:03.460 And so, even with the focus of decentralization, hey, like, church home, we don't want this to be based on a personality or one pastor or, you know, these sorts of, you know, events or anything like that. 00:32:03.580 --> 00:32:06.220 Like, of course, the number one priority is Jesus. 00:32:06.600 --> 00:32:09.420 And so, that's kind of the idea with, like, decentralizations. 00:32:09.540 --> 00:32:16.320 Like, when you think of church home, the idea is, like, we don't want it to focus, like, oh, it's this, like, this is who pastors it. 00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:19.480 Or, you know, they do these really cool events or these cool conferences. 00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:20.880 No, it's, like, the community aspect. 00:32:21.100 --> 00:32:21.980 It's the people. 00:32:22.980 --> 00:32:32.540 And so, yeah, you know, even the kind of initial goals, like, hey, what would it look like if we really focused in, you know, our energy and time and building community where we might not have the, 00:32:32.540 --> 00:32:36.740 the ability that you have, like, a big building or something like that? 00:32:37.440 --> 00:32:40.820 And what would it look like building, like, organic community that way? 00:32:40.860 --> 00:32:51.000 Because, you know, and again, all the stats and everything shows is, even with church growth for a lot of churches in America, it's kind of just transfer growth, which is not a bad thing necessarily. 00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:55.200 But we're also on mission to reach new people for God. 00:32:55.600 --> 00:33:01.840 And so, even just being innovative, and again, it's, like, not all that innovative if you read the book of Acts. 00:33:01.960 --> 00:33:05.100 But it's, yeah, just, again, something that, let's try something. 00:33:05.160 --> 00:33:11.880 Let's swing for the fences and let's try building community where maybe we don't have the benefit of, oh, the fallback is just Sunday. 00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:19.680 And that's where we've seen just incredible, just opportunities and continuing to build upon that. 00:33:20.080 --> 00:33:23.320 Hey, I got to tell you, Jonathan, you're spot on right there. 00:33:23.320 --> 00:33:27.320 And Church Home is a perfect example of this. 00:33:27.320 --> 00:33:33.600 Because what you're seeing is that the buildings are going to reach a certain type of person. 00:33:33.740 --> 00:33:43.140 The buildings that Church Home has in Seattle, the buildings they have in Washington, not Washington, I'm sorry, in Los Angeles, will continue to reach people. 00:33:43.280 --> 00:33:46.940 It will be effective in ministry up to a point. 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:53.820 Now, unfortunately, over the grand scheme of America in the past 25 years, we've lost 25% of involvement in church. 00:33:53.820 --> 00:33:58.420 And so what we're missing is really what Church Home is discovering. 00:33:58.580 --> 00:34:02.580 We can continue to reach people by doing something different. 00:34:02.860 --> 00:34:15.880 The type of person that's going to engage in a decentralized model or a microchurch model or a watch party model is different than what we're going to see the type of person reaching in the physical building. 00:34:16.100 --> 00:34:21.480 The type of person that's reached in virtual reality is different than the type of person that's reached by the building. 00:34:21.560 --> 00:34:23.100 And digital church, same thing. 00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:26.180 And so, like, it's really getting back to this. 00:34:26.340 --> 00:34:28.800 And, Jonathan, you've used the word imagination a couple times. 00:34:29.140 --> 00:34:37.200 And innovation, you know, I say, and through Digital Church Network, the Church Digital, so many of my friends are using the word missional imagination. 00:34:37.640 --> 00:34:48.960 Where, man, church, if we could figure out how to actually listen to the people that have crazy ideas within our churches right now, the person who's thinking outside of the box. 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:52.040 And, I don't know, give them an opportunity to do something. 00:34:52.360 --> 00:35:01.260 We just, just within the past couple months, you might appreciate this, Jonathan, we did a podcast with Seacoast, which is a mega church on the other coast. 00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:02.680 They're up in the Carolinas. 00:35:03.160 --> 00:35:05.380 And they ran this, like, secret experiment. 00:35:05.560 --> 00:35:06.860 They didn't tell anybody about it. 00:35:06.860 --> 00:35:10.760 I think we were, like, the first time it was talked about publicly on the podcast. 00:35:11.620 --> 00:35:18.580 But they created a, the intern, the 20-year-old unpaid intern came up with an idea. 00:35:18.660 --> 00:35:26.280 And essentially, the idea was, hey, why don't we open a Discord channel unbranded for Seacoast and do discipleship within the channel? 00:35:26.880 --> 00:35:36.500 And, oh, by the way, let's talk to some Christian influencers that aren't connected to the church and see if they'd be willing to use their influence to point people to the channel. 00:35:36.860 --> 00:35:42.820 They've got, like, 3,000 to 4,000 people that are now going through some sort of a discipleship process in Discord. 00:35:43.240 --> 00:35:44.920 It's a freaking genius idea. 00:35:45.020 --> 00:35:49.480 And it came from a 20-year-old unpaid intern who, by the way, Seacoast, if you're listening, pay the intern. 00:35:49.580 --> 00:35:50.540 Just throwing that out there. 00:35:50.760 --> 00:36:15.940 But what happens is if we think outside the box, church, if we start to empower some of these ideas, even something like a microchurch network or a watch party, a microsite, in some of these locations like Jonathan and Church Home are trying to do, man, we can reach a different type of person than we typically can with just our buildings. 00:36:16.420 --> 00:36:18.900 Now, this is the question I want to ask Jonathan. 00:36:19.020 --> 00:36:20.600 Sorry, that was like a monologue. 00:36:21.220 --> 00:36:22.060 And let me get back. 00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:23.520 You got me hyped up, man. 00:36:23.660 --> 00:36:24.880 I love this topic. 00:36:25.780 --> 00:36:27.080 What's the role of digital? 00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:28.600 What's the role of Pastor Chat? 00:36:28.720 --> 00:36:34.140 What's the role of app gluing all these connections together? 00:36:34.700 --> 00:36:36.720 Like, you're creating a decentralized movement. 00:36:37.400 --> 00:36:42.620 I'm willing to bet there's some level of centralization or unifying across. 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:44.240 Is digital involved in that? 00:36:44.240 --> 00:36:47.340 Yeah, 100%. 00:36:47.340 --> 00:36:56.020 And I think, again, it's something that we continue to try to make it a better version of it and integrate it even more. 00:36:56.140 --> 00:36:58.120 Because, again, whether... 00:36:58.120 --> 00:37:04.340 And, you know, for even a lot of our staff, maybe, or even me personally, initially, I'm like, is it going to be that effective? 00:37:04.520 --> 00:37:08.080 Or is this going to be kind of a flash in the pan sort of thing? 00:37:08.080 --> 00:37:11.680 Like, it's a good idea, maybe, in theory. 00:37:11.820 --> 00:37:12.960 But, like, is it going to last? 00:37:13.220 --> 00:37:21.180 And even just stepping outside of the church space of, yeah, if you look around, of course, like, it's not only lasting, but it's only getting more... 00:37:22.460 --> 00:37:23.520 It's getting bigger and bigger. 00:37:23.620 --> 00:37:30.340 Even like you were saying, the idea, you know, with things like virtual reality, who knows where that's going to look like in a year, three years, five years. 00:37:32.180 --> 00:37:33.960 You know, even, again, with... 00:37:33.960 --> 00:37:37.280 Even the example, I think, as well, like, the, you know, church and buildings. 00:37:37.380 --> 00:37:38.400 Again, we continue to do that. 00:37:38.480 --> 00:37:40.340 We're not like, oh, it's like, it's evil now. 00:37:40.360 --> 00:37:41.260 We're never going to do this again. 00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:41.860 Like, you know. 00:37:42.240 --> 00:37:46.100 But it's even that, again, that idea of meeting people where they're at. 00:37:46.180 --> 00:38:03.080 And for a lot of people, even from the digital side of things, listening to our messages or wanting to, you know, talk with someone digitally, there could also be things that we don't even necessarily think of initially where it could be because of physical reasons, health reasons, those sorts of things where it's just not conducive for someone that wants to be a part. 00:38:03.080 --> 00:38:08.760 But if we just focus on just one thing, is that limiting someone else where that's not possible? 00:38:08.940 --> 00:38:17.020 And I think even, again, and I promise this will kind of relate back to your initial question, even the thing with, like, you know, a service on a Sunday in a building. 00:38:17.140 --> 00:38:17.940 Again, it's great. 00:38:18.020 --> 00:38:18.980 We're going to continue to do it. 00:38:19.020 --> 00:38:19.860 And it's awesome. 00:38:20.040 --> 00:38:25.740 But, you know, for a lot of people, again, that's maybe brand new to not even just God, but just new to, like, they're looking, they moved into the area. 00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:27.060 They're looking for friends. 00:38:27.060 --> 00:38:28.120 They're looking for community. 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:32.540 Not that, obviously, we're not, it's, we're intentionally doing it, but, you know, just natural. 00:38:32.680 --> 00:38:38.040 Every church will see this or, like, someone walks in and just for whatever reason, they happen to get missed by being greeted. 00:38:38.540 --> 00:38:45.020 And they go sit in service, don't meet anybody, then they leave, and now they're lonelier than they were when they walked in. 00:38:45.120 --> 00:38:51.680 And it's like, you know, that's a thing that we obviously have seen in all the stats with, like, just church attendance and those sorts of things. 00:38:51.680 --> 00:39:01.520 And so, again, with the digital side of, you know, someone that wants to connect with church home can be, again, physically in person, in a big building, in a church at home group, whatever that case is. 00:39:01.560 --> 00:39:03.360 We just want to have all the bases covered. 00:39:03.560 --> 00:39:07.860 So, again, no matter how someone's connecting with us, we want it to all kind of work in sync. 00:39:08.500 --> 00:39:18.920 Even, for example, myself, you know, I'm part of a, I lead, help kind of lead, like, a digital group that's filled with people that are, again, they don't live in Seattle where I live. 00:39:19.040 --> 00:39:22.180 The other person, like, that also leads, they live in Los Angeles. 00:39:22.180 --> 00:39:28.400 You know, it's like a Bible, it could be like, we'll do a Bible study sometimes, or we'll go through, you know, leadership podcasts or things like that. 00:39:28.460 --> 00:39:32.080 And it's the people that are in that group, they're like some of my closest friends. 00:39:32.260 --> 00:39:37.000 And I may have not physically met them in person, but that relationship, that connection is still there. 00:39:37.300 --> 00:39:51.380 And so, I think even when it comes to, again, like with technology and our app and, you know, websites and all these sorts of things, at the end of the day, those are things that can continue to be improved and make it, you know, a better experience for the user. 00:39:51.380 --> 00:39:53.940 But at the end of the day, it's also just a means to an end. 00:39:54.260 --> 00:40:07.460 And we're not going to, it's not the end all be all, but we can leverage that technology and, again, get back to the initial, like, goal of pointing people to God and helping them connect to community if that's what they're looking for. 00:40:07.460 --> 00:40:22.540 And so, you know, it's an ongoing thing, like, a lot of our work is, again, improving systems, making technology even better, because, again, stepping outside of the church space, this has been happening in every other realm or area or business or things like that. 00:40:22.560 --> 00:40:24.480 And it's like, why not? 00:40:24.900 --> 00:40:29.480 You know, not that there's anything wrong with tradition, and we still obviously love tradition and that sorts of stuff. 00:40:29.480 --> 00:40:35.620 But, you know, the church, the capital C church is not historically known as, like, the innovative, you know, space and that sort of thing. 00:40:35.780 --> 00:40:37.180 But why couldn't it be? 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:40.780 Why couldn't we use the example I love of Discord? 00:40:41.040 --> 00:40:48.940 Like, how big, especially that has gotten over the last couple years, and in a very similar sense of kind of the decentralization, like, it's all, like, online. 00:40:48.940 --> 00:40:58.220 But you think of all the communities, genuine communities that people love being a part of, and they feel, you know, loved or supported with something because of, like, a Discord. 00:40:59.040 --> 00:41:00.700 Like, how amazing is that? 00:41:00.740 --> 00:41:05.460 It's almost like things, like, with Discord and stuff like that, they're doing church community better than churches are. 00:41:05.620 --> 00:41:06.500 And we're guilty of that. 00:41:06.540 --> 00:41:08.020 And it's like, yeah, we can learn from that. 00:41:08.080 --> 00:41:17.520 And why not innovate and build something new that will help not only reach the current generation, but even looking ahead of the next generation, the generation that's coming. 00:41:17.920 --> 00:41:23.920 And again, keeping that focus of Jesus and community, but just, it might be the tools could look a little different. 00:41:24.280 --> 00:41:26.000 Yeah, that's great. 00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:26.720 Beautiful vision. 00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:29.780 I love this idea with the Discord. 00:41:30.520 --> 00:41:33.480 And, you know what, I did a talk. 00:41:34.180 --> 00:41:35.600 It's not self-promotion, I'm sorry. 00:41:35.680 --> 00:41:51.680 But I did a talk on this, and I just put it on YouTube, of talking about asynchronous communities and how decentralized churches can utilize, or churches can utilize an asynchronous community like Discord to become decentralized. 00:41:52.220 --> 00:41:54.280 And so we'll put a link in the show notes. 00:41:54.280 --> 00:42:04.480 And while I'm talking about show notes, we'll link to, actually, the Church Home app as well, so y'all can get a feel for that and how it operates. 00:42:04.600 --> 00:42:30.300 Let me ask, like, if somebody fills out a church, if somebody starts a conversation within Pastor Chat, like, is there a, is it part of the process to try to get them connected into a church home service, a decentralized location if they're within the city reach of where a church home is going to, the main locations, another church? 00:42:30.300 --> 00:42:34.220 Like, what do you, what's the, what's the funnel look like? 00:42:34.280 --> 00:42:40.780 What's the process, engagement process look like with somebody who walks into, to, to church or to Pastor Chat? 00:42:41.020 --> 00:42:42.980 Yeah, really, really great question as well. 00:42:43.440 --> 00:42:46.740 You know, of course, it's something that's like on a case-by-case basis. 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:59.780 But for the most part, you know, when someone messages in a Pastor Chat, the primary thing that we've noticed, it's someone that's looking for prayer about whatever could be going on, you know, quote-unquote, 00:42:59.780 --> 00:43:02.240 big or little happening in their life. 00:43:02.340 --> 00:43:09.240 And so, you know, again, our heart as Pastor Chat is we want to just be able to serve people and, again, point people to God. 00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:15.080 And, you know, there's going to be instances where, you know, in an ideal world, it's like, yeah, like, are you part of, like, church home community? 00:43:15.180 --> 00:43:26.620 Like, there's, there's a group, you know, in, in your area, or if not, you know, big part of what we've been, you know, being able to converse about, like, decentralization of, you know, people that are looking for community. 00:43:26.620 --> 00:43:29.380 And it's, you know, even for us of, you know, we can empower someone. 00:43:29.500 --> 00:43:36.860 Like, hey, would you, would you consider even hosting church home community where you live and, you know, impacting people where you live? 00:43:37.340 --> 00:43:43.540 Because that's, that's going to be a big part of, you know, with our model and, you know, what we're hoping to do and what God's called us to do. 00:43:43.640 --> 00:43:49.900 And so, you know, again, it's going to be case by case, you know, if someone's coming up with something, like, very serious and not to make light by any means. 00:43:49.900 --> 00:43:58.280 But, you know, people like, hey, a passing just happened, like, in my family would just love, like, scripture, like, prayer, you know, that, of course, we're going to do that. 00:43:58.320 --> 00:44:00.240 And then it's like, well, are you part of a church home group? 00:44:00.280 --> 00:44:01.460 Like, yeah, maybe not necessarily. 00:44:01.520 --> 00:44:04.700 That's a little tone deaf and like, ah, maybe not, you know, not the best way. 00:44:04.720 --> 00:44:10.500 But, you know, we have, like, different workflows that we are continuing to build and even make even better just depending on what someone is asking. 00:44:10.660 --> 00:44:23.240 And so, again, at the end of the day, it's, we even show, like, when you come across pastor, hey, this is a space where you can ask questions, ask for prayer if you need support, however we can help to the best of our ability. 00:44:23.560 --> 00:44:24.700 That's what we're there for. 00:44:25.120 --> 00:44:37.520 But, you know, and it's pretty, also, pretty amazing, too, that people will come across pastor chat and they actually don't know it's, like, tied to a church or, like, a lot of times people are, like, church home, like, like, you know, at the end of the day, we're at church. 00:44:37.520 --> 00:44:38.720 And some people actually don't know that. 00:44:38.800 --> 00:44:46.740 And that's actually pretty awesome because then that gives us an opportunity of someone that's, you know, not part of a church already or just, again, they're looking for a community. 00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:52.900 Hey, if we have something that's current right now that they can be a part of, awesome. 00:44:53.060 --> 00:44:57.100 If not, hey, could you consider, would you consider, you know, hosting community? 00:44:57.420 --> 00:45:00.120 It really, for us, really diving deep into that. 00:45:00.580 --> 00:45:06.160 And, again, part of this whole model of building community outside of just where we've always been. 00:45:06.160 --> 00:45:09.440 Yeah, I am so in love with this conversation. 00:45:10.440 --> 00:45:14.100 I'm going to be, I'm going to just be very transparent right here, Jonathan. 00:45:14.360 --> 00:45:19.900 You, Church Home is probably one of my top five favorite churches in America. 00:45:20.400 --> 00:45:23.200 Like, and I would probably say number one. 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:27.020 But if I did, somebody else is going to get really upset at me. 00:45:27.060 --> 00:45:30.540 And my old pastor is going to call me out publicly, Reality Church down here in Miami. 00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:35.220 And so I don't want to do that, but definitely love what you guys are doing. 00:45:35.220 --> 00:45:38.940 Love the approach, the heart behind it. 00:45:39.260 --> 00:45:42.420 And just the, I mean, just even the spirit of innovation. 00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:45.000 Hey, let's try something, see how it works. 00:45:45.040 --> 00:45:49.100 We're not experts in this, but we're going to carve out the road. 00:45:49.100 --> 00:46:00.020 And definitely have just even loved this conversation of how pastor chat can lead towards decentralization and lead towards empowering people. 00:46:00.260 --> 00:46:09.660 I'm not quoting it publicly, 98%, not publicly, 98% outside of the physical reach of the physical buildings. 00:46:09.660 --> 00:46:14.820 Like, that's just an incredible opportunity that Church Home is realizing. 00:46:14.980 --> 00:46:20.340 And man, thank you for the time here, obviously, but for the work that you're putting in to make this happen. 00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:21.500 This has been incredible. 00:46:21.700 --> 00:46:24.880 As we're landing the plane here, Jonathan, any closing thoughts? 00:46:25.380 --> 00:46:26.760 Well, yes, I guess. 00:46:27.240 --> 00:46:31.800 But number one, Jeff, I really appreciate even just those kind words that you said. 00:46:32.040 --> 00:46:40.620 And, you know, at the end of the day, it's, you know, myself, I'll be number one to say, and even our team, we're just as average as anyone else. 00:46:41.080 --> 00:46:45.840 You know, on surface, it could be, oh, that's a cool thing and all these things. 00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:50.220 And, you know, again, it's ultimately, we feel like that's what God's calling us to do. 00:46:50.300 --> 00:46:58.280 But it's all around this fundamental idea of we're called to preach Jesus and love people as he does. 00:46:58.440 --> 00:47:01.240 And does that maybe look different as time goes on? 00:47:01.300 --> 00:47:01.700 It could be. 00:47:02.540 --> 00:47:11.200 But, you know, again, at the end of the day, we're not any, we're just average, ordinary people that love an extraordinary God and his extraordinary love for humanity and his creation. 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:15.680 And so, yeah, that's just our heart, I think. 00:47:16.140 --> 00:47:21.820 And something we, at least for me personally, I never like, oh, like, look how great this has been, how cool we are. 00:47:21.880 --> 00:47:26.580 It's like, no, like, we can always continue to build things and make things better. 00:47:26.580 --> 00:47:29.920 And again, with the idea of how can this serve people better? 00:47:30.400 --> 00:47:42.720 And, you know, for a world that is so desperate for Jesus and for a world that's, you know, searching for truth and looking for, obviously, what we know that Jesus, who he is and what he provides. 00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.780 You know, that's just, that's, that's, that's what motivates us every day. 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:51.760 That's why, you know, for us as a team, it's never been about, you know, clocking in and clocking out. 00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.620 But, you know, this is our heart as a team and something that we just want to continue to cultivate. 00:47:55.760 --> 00:48:02.980 I know for, you know, anyone that's listening or watching, you know, for us, it's at the end of the day, you know, I kind of use the example. 00:48:03.060 --> 00:48:05.000 We just want to swing for the fences because why not? 00:48:05.560 --> 00:48:12.580 Because, you know, people's lives are on the line, not to make it like super dramatic, but it's, yeah, there's, there's a world that's hungry for Jesus. 00:48:12.720 --> 00:48:17.000 And maybe they just don't know that what they're looking for is Jesus and the gospel. 00:48:17.000 --> 00:48:21.540 And for us, a lot of what motivates us, like, seems good to us and the Holy Spirit. 00:48:22.020 --> 00:48:28.480 So, again, ultimately, this church is not built on one person or, you know, a team or anything. 00:48:28.560 --> 00:48:30.540 Like, the lead pastor of this church is Jesus. 00:48:30.740 --> 00:48:36.080 As cliche as that might be, but, you know, we're just, we want to be obedient where we feel like God's called us. 00:48:36.180 --> 00:48:40.100 And we know that our calling might look a little different than another church. 00:48:40.100 --> 00:48:46.340 And that's totally okay, because we're not all called to do the same things, but we're all called to do the same thing and to reach people. 00:48:46.900 --> 00:48:49.320 I love the heart of a humble disruptor. 00:48:49.760 --> 00:48:52.020 And so the humility you show is awesome. 00:48:52.680 --> 00:49:00.900 Swinging for the fences is great, but there's a part of this also, like, and I'll call it out for you, is that you took a risk. 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:02.680 And by you, I mean the organization. 00:49:02.860 --> 00:49:05.800 I mean so many others that have paved this way. 00:49:05.800 --> 00:49:11.200 And, you know, Mark shows that humble disruptor as well in the conversations that we've had. 00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:12.860 We'll link to that podcast. 00:49:13.180 --> 00:49:15.780 I think I've at least done two. 00:49:16.160 --> 00:49:18.120 Maybe just one on the podcast and it was something else. 00:49:18.260 --> 00:49:20.240 But anyway, we'll link to it in the show notes. 00:49:20.300 --> 00:49:20.940 You can dig into it. 00:49:21.220 --> 00:49:25.060 But the heart is that there's a risk that's involved. 00:49:26.100 --> 00:49:33.660 And minimize the risk, build a sandbox, figure out ways to fire the BB before the bullet, before you drop the bomb. 00:49:33.960 --> 00:49:37.780 Like, you know, do it in pencil, before pen, before permanent marker. 00:49:38.300 --> 00:49:40.700 I can use whatever analogy makes sense to your people. 00:49:40.840 --> 00:49:45.880 But try to figure out how to experiment with some of this stuff in ways that make sense. 00:49:46.020 --> 00:49:49.120 And then once you get a proof of concept, keep building on it. 00:49:49.160 --> 00:49:53.040 You don't get a proof of concept, keep experimenting and iterate, trying something different. 00:49:53.160 --> 00:49:56.620 And I just, I love that you guys are so aggressive in this space. 00:49:56.620 --> 00:49:58.540 And I can keep gushing stuff all day long. 00:49:59.180 --> 00:50:02.380 Unfortunately, I don't have time because I got to jump into another call. 00:50:02.720 --> 00:50:08.700 One of my other top favorite churches in America, Tyler Sansom from First Capital Christian in Corden, Indiana. 00:50:09.240 --> 00:50:10.380 I got lead pastor over there. 00:50:10.440 --> 00:50:11.660 I got to jump on a call with him. 00:50:11.740 --> 00:50:12.920 And yes, I did just drop a name. 00:50:13.160 --> 00:50:15.780 But he is one of the top five as well. 00:50:15.900 --> 00:50:20.760 You guys, actually, it would be interesting to connect Church Home and First Capital together. 00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:22.400 It's a much smaller church. 00:50:22.520 --> 00:50:31.820 It's a much smaller church, but as aggressive, decentralized, micro locations, pastoring digitally, discipling digitally, like incredible vision. 00:50:32.200 --> 00:50:34.260 Oh my gosh, I'm going to figure out how to make this happen. 00:50:34.500 --> 00:50:36.140 I'm going to bring the two together somehow. 00:50:36.440 --> 00:50:37.320 Like we're going to make it happen. 00:50:37.420 --> 00:50:38.080 Let's make it happen. 00:50:38.440 --> 00:50:38.980 I'm in. 00:50:39.400 --> 00:50:39.940 But not today. 00:50:40.040 --> 00:50:40.800 I got to go. 00:50:40.940 --> 00:50:43.000 Not today because I do have to go. 00:50:43.200 --> 00:50:45.900 But Jonathan, thank you for the time, sir, coming on here. 00:50:45.980 --> 00:50:46.640 I appreciate it. 00:50:46.660 --> 00:50:49.060 Check out the links in the show notes for more resources. 00:50:49.060 --> 00:50:54.440 But for Jonathan, this is Jeff for the Church Digital, Digital Church Network and a whole bunch of other stuff. 00:50:54.520 --> 00:50:56.220 Thanks for jumping on the show here. 00:50:56.580 --> 00:50:57.540 We'll see you next time on the podcast. 00:50:57.780 --> 00:50:58.220 Y'all have a good day.