WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.840 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological 00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:10.920 innovations within the church. But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:16.640 Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:17.380 --> 00:00:22.440 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:27.920 fit into all this? Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:33.840 plant. The Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:34.260 --> 00:00:40.460 digitally and physically. Our heart? That churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on 00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:46.820 disciple making that will revolutionize your church. And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:47.420 --> 00:00:52.460 All right. Hey, Twitch friends, Digital Church Network, The Church Digital. Jeff here, founder of 00:00:52.460 --> 00:00:57.100 The Church Digital, Digital Church Network, so much other fun stuff. And we're doing yet another 00:00:57.100 --> 00:01:02.680 podcast episode of The Church Digital Podcast here on Twitch. We've been in season four here, 00:01:03.020 --> 00:01:09.560 talking about Jesus, gamers, and church. What does church look like in gaming culture? How can we 00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:15.060 utilize the church? How can the church reach into gaming culture, engage in gaming culture, 00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:22.560 and really be effective to reach the 3.02 billion gamers across the planet? Now, I'm not in my studio. 00:01:22.980 --> 00:01:27.760 I'm kind of whispering because there's a conference happening like 30 feet that way. I'm kind of 00:01:27.760 --> 00:01:32.620 expecting the door to open and then to tell me, shh, keep it down. I'm actually in Dallas, Texas right 00:01:32.620 --> 00:01:38.540 now. I'm going to pick up my laptop. I want to show you. I'm at the practice facility for the Texas, 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:42.600 for the Dallas Cowboys. Evidently, it's a football team. Maybe some of you heard of the Dallas Cowboys. 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:48.800 Most of you watching this live, you're gamers. What do you know about football? Maybe you play Madden, 00:01:48.940 --> 00:01:53.840 so maybe you'll get something out of it. But literally, look at the practice facility. It's 00:01:53.840 --> 00:02:00.880 inside that building. They've got the LED screens running. There's actually a football field that's 00:02:00.880 --> 00:02:08.180 built into the front area. It's this really nice hotel. I'm actually in Dallas, Texas, obviously, 00:02:08.260 --> 00:02:14.320 with the Cowboys. But there's a conference happening right now that's aimed towards digital 00:02:14.320 --> 00:02:21.320 revival. And they're actually working with some of the top Christian. And these are influencers more 00:02:21.320 --> 00:02:25.860 like, you know, not to twitch the field, like we've been talking about with the Gamer Church, 00:02:25.940 --> 00:02:33.560 but a lot of TikTokers. As a matter of fact, there's estimated that within the 40 TikTokers and like 00:02:33.560 --> 00:02:39.460 that, the people that are here, 40 of them, they have an estimated reach of 800 million people 00:02:39.460 --> 00:02:45.920 internationally. And so huge opportunities for the gospel. And it's been fun. I'm actually right after 00:02:45.920 --> 00:02:50.480 this podcast, I'm going to be sitting down with them talking about, hey, what does church look like 00:02:50.480 --> 00:02:55.240 in this space? Like we're really good. You're really good at creating this content. But if it 00:02:55.240 --> 00:03:00.680 doesn't feed into community, it's meaningless. It's pointless. And if that community is not driving 00:03:00.680 --> 00:03:05.580 towards discipleship with purpose of multiplication and physical and digital space, oh my gosh, like 00:03:05.580 --> 00:03:11.940 you've got this huge reach, but you haven't realized how to really engage these people and 00:03:11.940 --> 00:03:19.260 disciple them in digital forms. And that is something that I believe the Gamer Church is. The people that 00:03:19.640 --> 00:03:24.400 we're talking about here with season four have realized so well. 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:28.960 So, hey, we're going to wrap up season four. This is it. This is where we're going. This is the 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:33.460 finale. Maybe. Stay tuned. We're going to talk about that in a little bit. Let's go ahead and bring 00:03:33.460 --> 00:03:41.920 me in, Mark. Okay. So, Mark, every episode that I brought you on, there's a running joke on the 00:03:41.920 --> 00:03:44.480 show. Am I going to pronounce your last name correctly? 00:03:44.740 --> 00:03:45.160 No, you're not. 00:03:45.220 --> 00:03:51.340 And so we did not rehearse this. We did not practice this. And so I'm going to do it. You tell me if I'm 00:03:51.340 --> 00:03:54.700 right, because I have, once again, no idea. Lutz. 00:03:55.140 --> 00:03:55.840 Nope, that's wrong. 00:03:57.740 --> 00:04:02.280 So, but so close. I feel like we've really come full circle here. Lutz. 00:04:03.020 --> 00:04:03.420 Lutz. 00:04:03.420 --> 00:04:03.820 Lutz. 00:04:04.040 --> 00:04:04.360 Lutz. 00:04:04.560 --> 00:04:04.920 Lutz. 00:04:05.300 --> 00:04:05.700 Lutz. 00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:07.420 You got it. Pretty close. 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:09.500 My tongue does it. 00:04:10.100 --> 00:04:14.900 Yeah. It's like some people have the ability to curl their tongue and some people biologically 00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:19.080 can't. And for you, you just biologically cannot pronounce my name. It's not your fault. You 00:04:19.080 --> 00:04:24.140 were born that way. It's a good excuse for everything else in the world right now. So. 00:04:25.260 --> 00:04:30.520 I'm not sure if there was like a, a passive aggressive insult that was tied to that comment, 00:04:30.520 --> 00:04:33.960 but I'm going to assume it was the best because you're my friend, even though I can't pronounce 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:34.440 your name correctly. 00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:39.560 I feel like we've come full circle here, Jeff. I mean, we started a season four with the two 00:04:39.560 --> 00:04:43.560 of us and we're ending season four with the two of us somewhere along there. I got COVID 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:50.340 and, uh, and couldn't talk for like four episodes or something, but, uh, we were back in, you're 00:04:50.340 --> 00:04:58.280 in an airport or something. Um, so all, all, all good. Hey, this has been, it has been so 00:04:58.280 --> 00:05:03.960 much fun for me diving into, you know, and once again, I said from day one, I don't, I don't 00:05:03.960 --> 00:05:08.460 get gamer culture. Like, you know, I am 44 years old. It's been a couple of decades since 00:05:08.460 --> 00:05:14.320 I really consider myself a gamer beyond me playing Pokemon go on my phone. And that's 00:05:14.320 --> 00:05:22.280 not hardcore. Um, and so being able to, to better understand the culture, start to dive 00:05:22.280 --> 00:05:27.940 into, you know, even some of the nuances of, of video games, of board game culture, of nerd 00:05:27.940 --> 00:05:32.120 culture and everything. I'm literally, I'll go ahead and do it. I'm wearing a love thy nerd 00:05:32.120 --> 00:05:38.900 shirt as I didn't plan that to let's go. Um, and so like, um, um, um, this is where we 00:05:38.900 --> 00:05:47.020 are. And so now starting to, um, figure out how to be the church, how to reach the, into 00:05:47.020 --> 00:05:52.620 these mission fields, uh, in, in, in, in, you know, Twitch and discord and into these digital 00:05:52.620 --> 00:05:58.500 tools, even in video games, some of the stuff that the DJ's doing through VR MMO, like this 00:05:58.500 --> 00:06:03.940 is for me, this has been a mind altering conversation. I have learned so much in the 00:06:03.940 --> 00:06:08.500 past two or three months. Um, cause this has just been blue ocean. It's stuff that I have 00:06:08.500 --> 00:06:13.380 never explored before at this detail. And so, man, I want to thank you right up, right up 00:06:13.380 --> 00:06:18.780 at the top. Thank you for joining me on this journey for maybe even challenging me to walk 00:06:18.780 --> 00:06:22.000 into the space because I, to be honest, I didn't know what I was getting myself into. And it's 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:24.680 been a lot of fun, uh, going on this road with you. 00:06:25.180 --> 00:06:30.400 Yeah, Jeff, no, it's been a joy and a pleasure to come along and, um, to be able to help open 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:37.220 up, uh, more people's eyes to what God is already doing. Um, I, I literally, we, I, so I do another 00:06:37.220 --> 00:06:42.920 show with Andy called the digital church blueprint. I think it's part of the network here. We just 00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:46.000 recorded an episode that's going to come out in the next couple of weeks on digital community. 00:06:46.260 --> 00:06:53.860 And I said, you know, the church thinks that this is a, uh, like a frontier, right? And, 00:06:53.920 --> 00:06:57.940 and they're all acting like we're getting in our Conestoga wagons and we're going to head out to 00:06:57.940 --> 00:07:03.820 a couple of shanty towns and, and for the gold rush. Um, and then what you find out is you got 00:07:03.820 --> 00:07:10.160 in a Conestoga wagon and you went out West. And what was there was, uh, uh, a cyberpunk city with 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:15.980 millions of people that was 30 years beyond what you knew existed. And, and it's not a ghost town 00:07:15.980 --> 00:07:22.780 with, you know, uh, rolling shrubs and, uh, you know, uh, a sheriff, uh, it's, it's a completely 00:07:22.780 --> 00:07:27.180 different world. And I feel like in some ways in this season, what we've been able to do is begin 00:07:27.180 --> 00:07:32.100 to tap into some of that, to realize that when you come to these, when you come into this environment, 00:07:32.100 --> 00:07:36.280 you aren't just coming into like, Hey, there's, there's nobody here and we're going to start 00:07:36.280 --> 00:07:43.260 something. You're walking into a culture and a language and a people group. And what's even more 00:07:43.260 --> 00:07:47.420 interesting is like any large city, you know, Pittsburgh's known for this, right. Of having, 00:07:47.520 --> 00:07:52.260 I live near Pittsburgh, having all of these little subcultures, right. You have the Polish people 00:07:52.260 --> 00:07:56.240 that lived in this area, the German people that lived in that area. And in the gaming world, 00:07:56.240 --> 00:08:01.380 you have that too. You have this massive city with the FPS players over here, the card gamers over 00:08:01.380 --> 00:08:08.600 there and the RPG players over there and the, and it is really diverse and incredibly interesting and 00:08:08.600 --> 00:08:14.580 so nuanced. That has been a really fun part of, of the journey for me is exploring, you know, Hey, 00:08:14.580 --> 00:08:19.620 God is doing really cool things in so many different ways. And then to close that up last week, 00:08:19.620 --> 00:08:23.680 looking at a pest and how that applies here really brought a lot of that stuff full circle. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:30.100 When we talked to St. Bear and I loved that. Yeah. Um, the APS conversation last week, I mean, 00:08:30.100 --> 00:08:35.500 honestly, that is still blowing my brain, you know, and I'm sitting here like talking to these 00:08:35.500 --> 00:08:41.900 Tik TOK influencers that are, that are reaching, like, I'm not exaggerating millions. And, uh, and, 00:08:41.900 --> 00:08:46.460 and, and one of these guys is like, yeah, it's, it's me by myself. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, 00:08:46.900 --> 00:08:50.920 can you not build a team? Like, let's, let's talk about what your team should look like. 00:08:50.920 --> 00:08:56.900 And helping them start to recognize the ministry potential. If they move beyond them themselves and 00:08:56.900 --> 00:09:01.580 start to structure. Yeah. You know what? I mean, you're really at a stop with, with how you're 00:09:01.580 --> 00:09:07.040 building your platform and you're very passionate about your message, but you, you, you need a shepherd 00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:13.920 to come alongside you that can start to pastorally build these communities that can work within your 00:09:13.920 --> 00:09:20.620 organization and you can push people from the top of the funnel, the content and drive them down into a 00:09:20.620 --> 00:09:26.960 community for discipleship purposes. And, and, and so what I love is that the gamer churches, at least 00:09:26.960 --> 00:09:35.300 the ones, you know, uh, uh, Lux, uh, uh, uh, God squad, um, they get that. Like they're, they're 00:09:35.300 --> 00:09:39.680 already understanding what the community is and that they've evolved. They've been around long enough 00:09:39.680 --> 00:09:46.220 to evolve from the Twitch to the discord and, and having that, that rich complimentary of a strong 00:09:46.220 --> 00:09:53.240 front door with, through the Twitch engagement, the programming, the services, the platform, but then 00:09:53.240 --> 00:09:58.140 driving that into the community aspect. And, and, you know, Mark, I must be honest, man, I quote you 00:09:58.140 --> 00:10:04.820 five times a week, at least where you talk about the only person who quotes me. So that's nice. 00:10:05.940 --> 00:10:10.840 Well, the funny thing is I put you your last name every time I quote you. So, you know, 00:10:10.860 --> 00:10:15.420 many people may actually find you on Google or not, but when you're like, you know what, uh, 00:10:15.420 --> 00:10:22.300 the church building is Twitch. What we do Monday through Saturday is, um, that's discord. 00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:26.960 And so we spend 85% of our time in discord. It's not about the weekend service, it's about 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:31.280 the relationship. And that's the thing that so many people that makes the idea of what we're doing 00:10:31.280 --> 00:10:36.000 with digital church, with, with, with gamer church, with, with influence or virtual reality, 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:42.660 with social media, it's moving beyond just the content and, and, and content that goes into, 00:10:42.760 --> 00:10:46.660 you know, automatic where we're, we're, we're taking the relational aspects of discipleship out. 00:10:46.660 --> 00:10:54.120 And instead we're featuring the community aspects for discipleship, which is how we as humans in 2023, 00:10:54.120 --> 00:10:59.280 that's how we operate. The success, the success of discipleship happens in relationship, happens in 00:10:59.280 --> 00:11:05.620 community. And so us engaging in gaming community and building discipleship relationships within the 00:11:05.620 --> 00:11:12.020 gaming community. Like if, if the, if the physical church of the American church would understand that 00:11:12.320 --> 00:11:17.920 and start to move discipleship out of the church buildings into communities and building relationships 00:11:17.920 --> 00:11:23.940 and challenging individuals to do that. Um, there's a lot of stuff to really be excited about, 00:11:23.940 --> 00:11:25.920 you know, here when we're talking gaming church. 00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:32.100 Yeah. And I think Jeff, one of the things that has been really intriguing and super fun to me 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:38.420 personally has been, um, I think that in many ways, the gaming ministry is kind of the testing grounds 00:11:38.420 --> 00:11:45.120 for what digital ministry very likely may look like in the coming years, because, um, in, in many ways, 00:11:45.120 --> 00:11:51.500 you know, the digital natives, right. True digital hybrids are people who are pretty much like 25 and 00:11:51.500 --> 00:11:55.160 younger, right. A lot of people who grew up in an era where high-speed internet 00:11:55.160 --> 00:12:00.160 internet on their phone was just a way of life. I've talked about this a lot in various shows and 00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:05.520 in different contexts, how people form their identities digitally at the same time that they 00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:10.100 form them physically, how important that is and how the next generation will likely use tech hybridly 00:12:10.100 --> 00:12:14.520 in a way that we don't see it being used right now. However, the one place where we do see that 00:12:14.520 --> 00:12:17.600 being used in a lot of ways since I, the gaming community, because you have this huge group of 00:12:17.600 --> 00:12:21.840 people that are digital natives and early adopters of tech out of necessity to be able to raid 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:25.200 together, to be able to play together, to be able to stay connected with one another. And so they've 00:12:25.200 --> 00:12:29.220 already learned how to build relationships and deepen those relationships and, and have their 00:12:29.220 --> 00:12:34.600 life changed both positively and negatively in digital space and using digital tools. And so in many ways, 00:12:34.600 --> 00:12:39.200 what the church can learn in gaming, like if a church was to say, Hey, we're going to get into the 00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.600 gaming ministry thing. We're going to launch a discord. We're going to figure out how to connect 00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:48.380 with gamers and digital space. What you're really doing is you're training yourself on with a group 00:12:48.380 --> 00:12:52.940 of people on how the next generation is likely going to want to connect with the church. Not always, 00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:58.220 not exclusively, but certainly hybridly. And I think that is one of the really interesting things 00:12:58.220 --> 00:13:03.280 is the next generation. I truly believe is going to have a hybrid approach to relationship development 00:13:03.280 --> 00:13:09.480 in which they will walk seamlessly between digital and physical. Um, and you can actually learn as a 00:13:09.480 --> 00:13:14.220 church, what that looks like by exploring and experiencing the gaming community because they 00:13:14.220 --> 00:13:20.360 are the digital natives right now. And they range in age, which what something else that we learned, 00:13:20.420 --> 00:13:26.140 they range in age from those Gen Z, um, the whole way up through, you know, boomers and everywhere in 00:13:26.140 --> 00:13:30.260 between. And the average age is actually millennials right now. It's, you have this huge grouping of 00:13:30.260 --> 00:13:35.640 millions of millennial church or tech adopters, um, who are digital natives who are in the space. 00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:40.220 And we're seeing really, really cool stuff come out as a product of that, of what we're able to learn 00:13:40.220 --> 00:13:44.140 as a church from it. And I think there's been some really valuable lessons that may not even 00:13:44.140 --> 00:13:51.680 really come fully into light until a handful of years from now, when our churches are no longer 00:13:51.680 --> 00:13:55.080 talking about reaching my generation, they won't care about reaching millennials. They're going to be 00:13:55.080 --> 00:13:57.500 asking how in the heck are we supposed to be reaching Gen Alpha? 00:14:01.500 --> 00:14:06.880 Yeah, that's, I mean, that's really the question, um, at, at hand. And it's interesting. My friends 00:14:06.880 --> 00:14:11.520 over at New Thing, they actually, you know, sat down and challenged me on, on the Gen Alpha 00:14:11.520 --> 00:14:17.720 question, just even within the past couple of weeks, you know, Jeff, how can we get out? And, and to be 00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:22.080 honest, I pulled the, you know, out of my back pocket, the line that I always throw whenever somebody 00:14:22.080 --> 00:14:27.220 asks me about Gen Alpha. Hey, you know what? The terms of service of a lot of these software, they prevent 00:14:27.220 --> 00:14:32.300 creating accounts. Like, like my son's 12. He's, he's not on discord. He's not old enough for that 00:14:32.300 --> 00:14:37.360 discord account. And, and, and, you know, and it's, it's interesting. I, I, and I really respect this 00:14:37.360 --> 00:14:42.840 about my new thing friends. Um, new thing tells me, Jeff, that answer is not good enough. Like you 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:46.820 got to come up with something better than that. Start to, to work with your teams. And so like, 00:14:46.820 --> 00:14:50.820 it's even, you know, starting to challenge and I've already had some conversations with some of them. 00:14:50.900 --> 00:14:54.280 Hey, we got to come up with something better than, sorry, we can't help you. You know, 00:14:54.280 --> 00:14:59.520 and there, there's lots of things that, that challenge against the Gen Alpha, like, or work 00:14:59.520 --> 00:15:05.660 against that a little bit. Is it, is it, is it weird? Is it creepy? How do we not be that? How do we, 00:15:05.840 --> 00:15:11.980 how do we equip Gen Alpha to reach Gen Alpha? How do we equip parents to reach Gen Alpha? And so like, 00:15:11.980 --> 00:15:17.320 there's, there's some, some different angles towards that. Um, how would, how do you, let me ask that 00:15:17.320 --> 00:15:23.760 question. Mark, do you have any Gen Alpha in, like, how, how is that working for you right now? 00:15:24.280 --> 00:15:29.280 Yeah. Alarmingly enough, we have, I mean, Gen Alpha is very young, right? My kids are Gen Alpha 00:15:29.280 --> 00:15:34.880 and alarmingly enough, we actually have a lot of Gen Alpha who are in our church because we have a lot 00:15:34.880 --> 00:15:40.120 of millennials, which means we have a lot of kids who are Gen Alpha right now. Um, who are part of 00:15:40.120 --> 00:15:44.020 our church. We just announced infinite child dedication. And if you want to get into a 00:15:44.020 --> 00:15:48.480 conversation about baptism, you can go have that with Jeff and not me. Um, but, uh, we're, 00:15:48.480 --> 00:15:51.920 we're doing infinite child dedication next month for the first time. Cause we do have so many young 00:15:51.920 --> 00:15:57.340 kids and my honest opinion about reaching Gen Alpha for a lot of years now, for whatever reason, 00:15:57.340 --> 00:16:01.960 the church flipped something. And it was a really weird thing to flip, right? I remember specifically 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:08.260 talking about how youth ministry should grow your church over time, right? Cause if you reach kids, 00:16:08.260 --> 00:16:12.940 you'll reach their parents. And my honest opinion of that is like, that's backwards. Like that should 00:16:12.940 --> 00:16:17.480 never be the way that should have, I understand why it became our goal, but it should never have become 00:16:17.480 --> 00:16:21.440 the goal, right? It should never have even been in the conversation. You want to reach Gen Alpha, 00:16:21.860 --> 00:16:27.340 learn how to reach millennials really well. Um, and if you, and, and if you want to reach Gen Alpha, 00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:33.180 when they can really be reached and it won't be creepy for you, then learn how to do digital ministry 00:16:33.180 --> 00:16:38.780 today and learn how to do that digital ministry effectively and tactfully, um, in a way that you 00:16:38.780 --> 00:16:43.480 can actually engage in digital space powerfully and impactfully with people. I think if you can learn 00:16:43.480 --> 00:16:49.960 how to do that now, you'll be far more equipped when, when Gen Alpha is, I'm not saying they're 00:16:49.960 --> 00:16:53.560 unreachable now, but the best tool to reach Gen Alpha right now is through their parents. Just like 00:16:53.560 --> 00:16:58.380 the best tool to reach any child is always going to be through their parents, right? Cause the parent 00:16:58.380 --> 00:17:01.880 has the most influence over their life and there, but there'll come a time when that's not the case, 00:17:01.880 --> 00:17:06.040 right? And we'll need to be able to reach Gen Alpha in new ways. So get used to digital ministry. 00:17:06.040 --> 00:17:09.800 Now get used to gaming ministry. Now it's not going anywhere, right? It's not going anywhere. 00:17:09.800 --> 00:17:16.120 Yeah. Yeah. So, Hey, you know what? And, and Mark, I love what you just said. I'm going to quote it 00:17:16.120 --> 00:17:20.520 again. I'm going to misrepresent your last name, but it's just, it's the, it's the circle of life in 00:17:20.520 --> 00:17:24.360 our relationship. But if you want to reach Gen Alpha, you got to reach it. It's really, it's reached 00:17:24.360 --> 00:17:30.920 the millennials and, and empower them to reach Gen Alpha. Like that, that's, that's, that's a really 00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:37.320 interesting approach and it's definitely effective if it's, if it's the only way or the best way, I don't know. 00:17:37.320 --> 00:17:43.240 But, but the idea of, of empowering parents to disciple their kids and understand how and why 00:17:43.240 --> 00:17:47.080 to do that, go for it. Let me give you two examples really quick that I think can tap 00:17:47.080 --> 00:17:50.680 into that a little bit. So I'll give you two examples from two sides of the aisle. I have 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:55.080 a really good friend, Joe, um, grew up in the church with me, left the church. I don't think 00:17:55.080 --> 00:17:59.480 he'd have any problem with me saying that has been on a weird faith journey. He has a son who's about 00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:05.240 the same age as, uh, my youngest daughter, Gen Alpha. Right. And he actually reached out to me 00:18:05.240 --> 00:18:11.080 and he said, Hey, as a pastor, what is the best way for me to protect my kid from the church? 00:18:11.080 --> 00:18:17.080 Like, I want to know how to protect my son from the church because I don't want a church to come 00:18:17.080 --> 00:18:23.400 into his life and mess him up. And I'm nervous about like letting him go to a church or letting him go to 00:18:23.400 --> 00:18:28.520 youth group. And so this is, and then the flip side of that is, let me tell you the story of Bougie, 00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:34.440 which I may have, or may have not told on this podcast before, but Bougie's in our church reignites 00:18:34.440 --> 00:18:40.200 his faith. Um, his real name is Gino. Um, his son's name is Roman begins reading the Bible to his son 00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:46.120 every single night. And, uh, so much so that his son is beginning to recognize scriptures because he's 00:18:46.120 --> 00:18:50.600 actually gone through pretty much every single page, every chapter, every verse of the Bible with his 00:18:50.600 --> 00:18:55.880 son. His son's heard it all now at like age, I don't know, four or five years old. And, and so 00:18:55.880 --> 00:19:02.440 we're seeing him change his son's life because his life has been changed. But the, the same is true of 00:19:02.440 --> 00:19:08.040 both. There's a unique thing about both, both Joe and Gino is that millennials are fiercely protective 00:19:08.040 --> 00:19:13.000 of their children, fiercely protective of the children and have learned that the world is not the place 00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:19.160 that you ride your bicycle at any time of the day. It is a ruthless, dangerous place where people take 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:24.840 your kids and hurt your children. And so because of that, they are very defensive of their children 00:19:24.840 --> 00:19:29.560 and very protective of their children, especially when it comes to faith and church. And so the only 00:19:29.560 --> 00:19:34.760 way to reach shit out right now, I would say in physical church or in a digital context is going 00:19:34.760 --> 00:19:42.920 to consistently be through reaching their parents. Wow. That's, that's a, that's a powerful word right 00:19:42.920 --> 00:19:48.600 there. Um, definitely, definitely challenged by that. And huge opportunities in, in digital to, 00:19:48.600 --> 00:19:55.320 to disciple the parents, to disciple the millennial, to, to, to reach, uh, Gen Z and Gen A with that, 00:19:55.320 --> 00:20:00.760 you know, the mobilization, the multiplication of this, the resourcing so that they can multiply it, 00:20:00.760 --> 00:20:06.440 that it can be multiplied again. Uh, definitely powerful there. Hey, well, you know, let's do this part. 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:11.080 You know, we're coming on, on season, wrapping up season four here. Uh, let's pay homage a little 00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:15.960 bit to, to where we come from, you know, and, and, and you caught a lot of the shows. I know you were, 00:20:15.960 --> 00:20:19.960 you were sick for a stretch there and, and some of the shows we're going to, we're going to reschedule 00:20:19.960 --> 00:20:24.840 and do later for, cause we just had some scheduling conflicts, but, um, I w I would love to maybe, 00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:30.600 maybe hear from you. Uh, and, and like, you're already so enriched in this culture and very little 00:20:30.600 --> 00:20:34.920 is, is a surprise to you at this point. Cause you're, you're one of the leading experts in this 00:20:34.920 --> 00:20:39.800 space, but what was, uh, what were some takeaways? What were some, some surprises? What were some, 00:20:39.800 --> 00:20:44.280 maybe your favorite moments in the couple, uh, coming off of, off of the season here? 00:20:44.280 --> 00:20:52.120 Ooh, Jeff is, I mean, he is just puffing me up leading expert. I, uh, uh, the, a lot of words 00:20:52.120 --> 00:20:58.520 that have never been used with me. Um, so, uh, uh, uh, okay. So some of the things that I feel like 00:20:58.520 --> 00:21:03.160 I've learned or, or taken away from it, I, that would have been a great question to be able, every 00:21:03.160 --> 00:21:06.840 time I get a question like that, I'm, it's like the only type of question that I struggle to talk 00:21:06.840 --> 00:21:11.960 with just literally off the top of my head. Um, but I honestly think that some of the conversation 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:18.760 with Asia and Amanda was really powerful for me, um, to hear from their perspective as women coming 00:21:18.760 --> 00:21:23.240 into the space, because despite the fact that I am doing this with my wife, which is very unique. 00:21:23.240 --> 00:21:27.640 Most guys, most people who are getting into gaming ministry are doing this with permission from 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:32.840 their spouse, but without necessarily support from their spouse. Right? So a lot of guys who are 00:21:32.840 --> 00:21:37.560 running solo in this space and their wife is like, yeah, you can do it. That's fine. But that's what we 00:21:37.560 --> 00:21:41.800 have. I am lucky enough to have a wife is partnering with me in it, despite the fact that she's not 00:21:41.800 --> 00:21:47.880 a gamer. And so it was interesting to hear from the female perspective, because my wife isn't a gamer, 00:21:47.880 --> 00:21:55.480 um, to hear how they, and just to hear the passion and the fire and the vision that came from Amanda 00:21:55.480 --> 00:22:00.200 and Asia both, um, was really cool. And for that show, I wasn't able to be on it, but I was in the 00:22:00.200 --> 00:22:04.600 green room listening the whole time. Um, I think some of the other stuff with Jono was some of the stuff 00:22:04.600 --> 00:22:10.680 that I knew about as well. Um, but to hear the advancement of e-sports and really hear it from 00:22:10.680 --> 00:22:16.680 from the horse's mouth of a person who's like literally in that space every day, working with 00:22:16.680 --> 00:22:24.760 people, learning how to shepherd in many ways. Um, and then also not just a shepherd, but also to, 00:22:24.760 --> 00:22:29.880 to train and equip people to be better gamers. Right. And how the world is shifting in that. 00:22:29.880 --> 00:22:34.680 I had a conversation with my buddy in my, in my kitchen today, um, who's on the school board at 00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:38.680 the school district that I'm in. And I just said, listen, man, you guys got to start talking about 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:43.640 spending a couple of grand and getting some decent computers and starting an e-sports program at the 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:49.400 school because more and more students are going to get scholarships to go to college based on their 00:22:49.400 --> 00:22:54.120 e-sports experience. And then Chino made set in the chat. Also Jade talking about mission dollars. 00:22:54.120 --> 00:22:58.440 I think that was a really eyeopening moment for all of us as well, as we just saw the need, 00:22:58.440 --> 00:23:03.720 like the very real need and not the need, but for Jade, at least how little that was. I mean, 00:23:03.720 --> 00:23:06.760 my needs are greater than Jade's. I'm not going to be, I'm not going to lie about that. 00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:12.120 It's because of family and situation and mortgage, but, um, to see the needs and to see how easily 00:23:12.120 --> 00:23:17.720 some of those can be met to really equip release and remove a lot of the stress and burden off of 00:23:17.720 --> 00:23:22.120 the heart and minds of digital missionaries, I thought was really powerful and cool. 00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:29.000 Yeah. Yeah. I mean so much, uh, Chino's blowing up chat, talking about Jade talking about hockey as 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:34.760 well. Um, you know, it's, it's funny, like the girl, uh, the, the, the, the girl streamers that we 00:23:34.760 --> 00:23:39.080 did a couple of weeks ago, I guess, uh, here at the conference, I started talking about gamer church. 00:23:39.080 --> 00:23:42.920 As a matter of fact, Mark, I literally, while I was talking about gamer church, I looked at my phone 00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:47.800 and I got the Twitch notification that your service was happening. And so I swiped and I'm like, 00:23:47.800 --> 00:23:53.880 like, this is literally what a Twitch service looks like. And, and it was, um, I want, I want to say, 00:23:53.880 --> 00:23:57.320 it was you and your wife sitting on, sitting on the couch together, or maybe it, maybe it wasn't, 00:23:57.320 --> 00:24:02.440 but it definitely was, was the part of the service where you were on talking. And, um, and so it was, 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:06.120 there was some, several women that were asking me questions, you know, and they're, they're women 00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:11.080 influencers and they feel some of the, some of the stress, uh, that, that, uh, that the Twitchers, 00:24:11.080 --> 00:24:15.480 the lady Twitchers were talking about is Twitchers a thing. I never really understood if I could say 00:24:15.480 --> 00:24:21.720 it that way. It is, it is absolutely not a thing. They are a streamer, not a Twitcher streamers, 00:24:21.720 --> 00:24:26.120 not a Twitcher streamer. Sorry. No, it's okay. We're still clarifying language here. It's, it's fine. 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:31.080 Yeah. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's all good. Yeah. Uh, but it was, it was funny just even starting 00:24:31.080 --> 00:24:36.680 to tell some of some of the stories that I've heard from, from the ladies and, and from, you know, 00:24:36.680 --> 00:24:40.920 you even talking about some of the experiences you and your wife have had, uh, within, uh, 00:24:40.920 --> 00:24:50.520 lucks and the challenges of, of women, uh, stepping into this male dominated, uh, society yet 48% of, 00:24:50.520 --> 00:24:57.720 of women of gamers are women. And so it's, it's really interesting how male ego and male chauvinism 00:24:57.720 --> 00:25:03.240 and whatever is so strong in that space yet percentage wise, it's not that much more than, 00:25:03.240 --> 00:25:09.640 than what, uh, than what the ladies are, are present in. And so Twitcher sounds like a truckies, 00:25:09.640 --> 00:25:14.200 stuffy. That's, that's awesome. Thank you for that, Chino. Um, you know, he references 00:25:14.200 --> 00:25:20.280 Aki and, uh, Aki for me, that's just close to home. Um, you know, cause you know, I watch, 00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:27.400 it's funny. I watch, um, I watch Aki stream now, um, probably two nights a week, maybe three nights a 00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:33.240 week, uh, stop in for it for a little bit. And, uh, and my kids are starting to get engaged in it. 00:25:33.240 --> 00:25:37.960 Um, my kids actually made me subscribe and I was kind of, I guess my subscription had, 00:25:37.960 --> 00:25:45.400 had not kept, but they made me subscribe to Jake's, um, feed. Uh, cause they wanted the cat 00:25:45.880 --> 00:25:49.800 that, that, you know, Jake has like running around the screen, the little, little, like the little cat 00:25:49.800 --> 00:25:54.760 icons. Um, and I hate cats. So they thought it was really funny that I'm now paying five bucks a 00:25:54.760 --> 00:25:58.840 month to have a cat in Jake's world. So now they want to go watch Jake cause they want to, they want to 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:03.480 check in the cat, see all the cats. This is a conversation with, with my, uh, my teenage kids. 00:26:03.480 --> 00:26:10.200 And, uh, but how Aki is doing the family streaming and, and incorporating the wife and incorporating 00:26:10.200 --> 00:26:15.320 the kids. How Aki, you know, and I see it, the family stuff where, you know, he's talking about 00:26:15.320 --> 00:26:20.360 like the, the after hours, I forget what he, what the specific language he calls in that, but after 00:26:20.360 --> 00:26:27.240 dark is, is what it is. And, and, uh, how he's creating that family environment, um, with, with 00:26:27.240 --> 00:26:33.800 people on the stream, like it is so good. And, and I see the, the people that are watching the stream 00:26:33.800 --> 00:26:40.760 engage in it so well. And, and like Aki and Jake are great examples of what digital missionaries 00:26:41.400 --> 00:26:49.800 need to be. They're finding a culture, a subculture, a contextualized culture that they wanted to get into. 00:26:50.360 --> 00:26:56.840 Jake is very much into Japanese culture. Aki is very much into reaching that, the, the, 00:26:56.840 --> 00:27:02.600 the, the, the, the kid that does not have a family because he wants to create a healthy family 00:27:02.600 --> 00:27:09.240 environment on Twitch that, that those that aren't. And so creating those environments to reach those 00:27:09.240 --> 00:27:15.720 types of people as a digital missionary, to, to bring them to relationally to Christ and then to get 00:27:15.720 --> 00:27:22.920 them connected into, to, you know, Lux for a church or to, uh, you know, God squad or something else along 00:27:22.920 --> 00:27:29.480 those lines, the discipleship community. Oh my gosh, such a good idea. Work with what you can 00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:35.320 and then what you don't want to do or what you can't do, partner with someone else to do that 00:27:35.320 --> 00:27:39.800 stretch. It's interesting here with the tick tockers. That's actually what I'm saying. It's like, Hey, 00:27:40.520 --> 00:27:45.160 do what you can in, in what you can't. Let's get you connected to digital churches. Let's get you 00:27:45.160 --> 00:27:51.080 connected into, into a discipleship community where you can feed into that. You know, we're Kingstide is, 00:27:51.080 --> 00:27:56.280 is a, is a, is a, is a new, uh, digital church that that's spinning off that came off of, uh, of, uh, 00:27:56.280 --> 00:28:03.240 Seacoast church. And, uh, it's another example of a discipleship community that's utilizing discord, 00:28:03.240 --> 00:28:10.040 that's taking an opportunity for influencers to feed into it and then utilizing that, that real, 00:28:10.040 --> 00:28:17.160 the community to boil the frog slowly, to nurture the relationship, to take it at a deeper level, 00:28:17.160 --> 00:28:21.640 relationally, to build the relational equity, the trust, to be able to have those. 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:27.240 Service has always been a big part. And so like, it's so interesting that the digital strategies 00:28:27.880 --> 00:28:34.280 for gamer church, for influencer church, the content leads to community. If can be, if there's no 00:28:34.280 --> 00:28:39.240 community, if it's just content, it's hollow. If the community doesn't have a purpose, then the 00:28:39.240 --> 00:28:44.840 community is pointless. And so if the purpose is discipleship, then we need to see it physically and 00:28:44.840 --> 00:28:50.040 digitally. We're discipling people digitally to the point that we are seeing the fruits of the spirit 00:28:50.040 --> 00:28:55.320 in physical and digital space. So the content has to go to community that has to be out of disciple 00:28:55.320 --> 00:29:01.960 making, which has to have results physically and digitally. And if that's the standard that we're 00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:07.000 holding our churches to, man, by the way, the biblical standard that we're holding churches to, 00:29:07.720 --> 00:29:15.080 God is going to do great things through his churches in digital space. And I am, I'm excited to see more 00:29:15.080 --> 00:29:21.960 churches like yours, Mark, spin up on here. I was encouraged, you know, I, and just even as I've 00:29:21.960 --> 00:29:28.280 hung out more with the, uh, the don't call it Megazord guys, the Nerd Culture Ministry Collective, 00:29:28.280 --> 00:29:33.560 uh, you know, went to the summit, met some of those people, saw the collaboration, saw the 00:29:33.560 --> 00:29:40.600 friendships that developed from that, see the desire now to multiply these ideas out and to start to 00:29:40.600 --> 00:29:45.480 connect with others and create new expressions of church that are holding to that biblical standard. 00:29:45.480 --> 00:29:53.240 Like to me, that's very exciting for the future. Cause it's people that are wanting to do something 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:58.840 different to reach a different type of person. And I believe that for the great commission to be 00:29:58.840 --> 00:30:06.120 accomplished or at least to give it a fair shake, we have to do something different. And, uh, and guys 00:30:06.120 --> 00:30:12.920 and gals like you through Nerd Culture Ministry Collective and, and, and all of this, it is so good to 00:30:12.920 --> 00:30:19.240 see you expanding, trying to multiply, train up that next generation to reach future generations. 00:30:20.120 --> 00:30:25.160 Um, well, let me tell you what, Mark, since, since I'm just rambling on here about Nerd Culture, 00:30:25.160 --> 00:30:29.720 uh, Ministry Collective, um, I am saying the acronym, right? Like that is, that's the, 00:30:29.720 --> 00:30:34.920 that's in the right order. Yeah. Nerd Culture Ministry Collective is, uh, is the, uh, 00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:40.760 network and Nerd Culture Ministry Summit is the event. Is the event. Talk to us a couple of minutes. 00:30:40.760 --> 00:30:46.280 I, you know, we've, I, I feel like we've talked about it. I don't know that we've actually like 00:30:46.280 --> 00:30:51.880 talked about it. I think we referenced it, maybe gave it a quick nod, but are you, are you comfortable 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:55.880 talking a little bit here about, about what it is, a Nerd Culture Ministry Collective? 00:30:56.760 --> 00:31:00.840 Yeah. I would actually love to talk a little bit about what both, what both are. Cause I think, 00:31:00.840 --> 00:31:06.360 I think both are important. So first off, Nerd Culture Ministry Collective is a network that 00:31:06.360 --> 00:31:12.360 we're forming underneath the DCN and inside of the style of new thing. We're gathering nerd culture, 00:31:12.360 --> 00:31:17.160 missionaries, digital church leaders, and org leaders together, um, for support, connection, 00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:22.840 coaching, uh, and accountability. And so what you would experience a typical network to be, uh, 00:31:22.840 --> 00:31:28.200 it's that it's to encourage and strengthen new people. Uh, the, the reality is the space is super, 00:31:28.200 --> 00:31:33.320 super isolating. And so it's very easy to kind of just get in your own lane and do your own thing and 00:31:33.320 --> 00:31:38.440 compete with people that you should be working together with. And so a big part of the goal 00:31:38.440 --> 00:31:42.920 of the Nerd Culture Ministry Collective is to help people establish and build relationships so that we 00:31:42.920 --> 00:31:48.840 can compliment instead of compete. Um, and, uh, and that's, that's going well. We launched some of our 00:31:48.840 --> 00:31:53.320 first networks, which we, of course we would have loved to launch those back in December, but, um, 00:31:53.320 --> 00:31:59.080 you know, it's April and the first one met literally last night. We had the girls, uh, group met. 00:31:59.080 --> 00:32:03.960 And so Amanda that was in Asia were on the show a couple of weeks ago. Um, they met up and, and they 00:32:03.960 --> 00:32:08.840 had a great showing for one of their first ones, which is awesome. And we have a couple of more 00:32:08.840 --> 00:32:14.440 that are in the works. We'll be launching, uh, over the course of April and into May likely. Um, 00:32:14.440 --> 00:32:19.320 and then on top of that, we've also had NCMS, which is the Nerd Culture Ministry Summit. This is 00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:24.680 the event side of that network, uh, or that is, uh, that movement really, it's a collection of networks, 00:32:24.680 --> 00:32:29.960 so movement. Um, and it's coming up in November. So November 8th to the 10th, uh, this year in 00:32:29.960 --> 00:32:37.400 Marble Falls, Texas, you can find it by going to ncmsummit.com. You can register today. It's 00:32:37.400 --> 00:32:42.200 inexpensive. And if you come as a senior pastor and lead pastor, whatever you get to bring somebody 00:32:42.200 --> 00:32:46.440 along with you, they get a free ticket to come in. There's a plus one feature so that you can bring 00:32:46.440 --> 00:32:49.960 the gamer from your church, the tech guy from your church, the youth pastor from your church, 00:32:49.960 --> 00:32:55.000 whomever to come and learn. And we're gathering together, um, ministry leaders that are in this 00:32:55.000 --> 00:33:02.760 space to help you understand, uh, really what it means to get into and, um, minister to, um, 00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:07.400 people in nerd culture. And, uh, which it really is, I mean, it's just like your neighbor at this 00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:12.600 point, right? It's not even like just all, all, all of our neighbors, certain extent are nerds in one 00:33:12.600 --> 00:33:16.840 way or another now, um, or all of us have nerdy neighbors. And so it's about how to reach them. 00:33:16.840 --> 00:33:21.080 So it's coming up in November. Like I said, it's in marble falls, Texas. Uh, you can go get 00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:27.000 registered. Uh, I think, I don't know, I guess we have to like finalize the speakers, but we do have 00:33:27.000 --> 00:33:32.680 one pretty big speaker, um, that has agreed to come. They just has to finalize stuff. So like the 00:33:32.680 --> 00:33:36.200 announcement of who's going to be the speaker, which is a combination of people who are in church world, 00:33:36.200 --> 00:33:41.720 who, you know, lead churches and, um, and the one individual right has written several books. 00:33:42.520 --> 00:33:47.880 Um, and is really has a podcast that's absolutely popped off recently. Um, he's going to be coming 00:33:47.880 --> 00:33:51.800 and speaking at it as our key, one of our keynotes and it's combination of that. And then people are 00:33:51.800 --> 00:33:58.440 actually in this space. And so, um, people like, uh, you know, Susie, um, from, uh, GSC and his own 00:33:58.440 --> 00:34:04.120 stream, Susie live and, um, some panels and breakout sessions from people that you've heard from on the 00:34:04.120 --> 00:34:08.440 show who are going to be there at it. We'd love to have you come out and join us for that. So you can 00:34:08.440 --> 00:34:14.280 get connected once again at ncmsummit.com. Um, and you should really buy your tickets now and 00:34:14.280 --> 00:34:19.160 come and hang out with us in marble falls. I think it'll be, uh, I think it'll really open your eyes 00:34:19.160 --> 00:34:22.200 to really what God is doing when you meet some of these people in person. 00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:29.480 Totally. Yeah. You know, and that, and so marble falls is maybe 10 minutes from where I am right now. 00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:36.520 And so deep in the heart of Texas, looking forward to spending some time and getting to meet you all. 00:34:36.520 --> 00:34:41.880 I was joking that they have not, at least my agent has not told me the way that I'm speaking. No, 00:34:41.880 --> 00:34:45.800 I'm kidding. I don't have an agent, but, uh, it's not, not me speaking. It's somebody else that 00:34:45.800 --> 00:34:51.240 has read a couple of books and, and, and has a very successful podcast. And so, um, Hey, listen, 00:34:51.240 --> 00:34:58.040 um, there has been, there's been so many lessons that have been learned through this, this podcast and, 00:34:58.040 --> 00:35:04.200 and, and we've been able through doing the season four here, you know, we took the experiment, uh, 00:35:04.200 --> 00:35:09.640 with trying to do this on discord and we actually, or excuse me on, on Twitch. And, and we actually 00:35:09.640 --> 00:35:15.240 built a decent channel just organically. We've got, I don't know, I had to look at the number, 00:35:15.240 --> 00:35:22.200 but I think it's something like 75 followers, um, 68 followers right now on, on digital church networks, 00:35:22.200 --> 00:35:27.880 uh, Twitch channel. And so really excited to see that happen. You know, we were doing, 00:35:28.040 --> 00:35:34.680 um, um, gamer church, but really the church digital podcast and the audience of, of that are really 00:35:34.680 --> 00:35:40.760 established churches. And so like we, we, we took the posture once again, of, of a curious learner, 00:35:40.760 --> 00:35:46.920 having these conversations and trying to expose ideas and expose people, uh, to, to some of these, 00:35:46.920 --> 00:35:52.760 these gamer, uh, podcasts. Now I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna let you behind the veil here a little bit. 00:35:52.760 --> 00:35:57.560 And, and, uh, there's, there's some good and there's some bad here. Um, the church digital 00:35:57.560 --> 00:36:03.880 podcast, the, um, the, the typical audience and the metrics that are looking at the audience, 00:36:03.880 --> 00:36:10.040 as we focused on gamer churches, we've actually seen the numbers drop. Like the, the average 00:36:10.040 --> 00:36:16.600 subscriber, the, the, the average plays that we get on, on the podcast here in season four has declined. 00:36:16.600 --> 00:36:23.800 Now, you know, I say that because we've actually seen the YouTube numbers skyrocket. We've actually 00:36:23.800 --> 00:36:29.000 seen the, the, the, the, the engagers and the people on Twitch increase. We've seen conversations 00:36:29.000 --> 00:36:34.520 come up in other places. We've had conversations with global mission organizations that are like, 00:36:34.520 --> 00:36:39.480 what are you doing with gamer church? We need to, we need to talk. Let's get together and start the 00:36:39.480 --> 00:36:45.880 dialogue. See how we can collaborate here. So the interest in gamer church is at a very high level. 00:36:45.880 --> 00:36:52.280 What I would suggest is that right now in 2023, just me reading the, the, the situation at hand, 00:36:52.840 --> 00:36:59.480 the physical church is not interested, uh, as a general rule. But what I've been so impressed with 00:37:00.120 --> 00:37:09.160 is the interest within the, the gamer community and the passion to see that multiply off. And so as a 00:37:09.160 --> 00:37:14.600 result of this, the, the, the desire not to, well, and, and so I'll let Mark speak to this in a little 00:37:14.600 --> 00:37:20.280 bit, but maybe it's not so much about helping the church, the physical church, the U S based church, 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:27.800 understand this as much as it is maybe trying to create a new movement of churches that are operating 00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.880 in this, this gamer space. But I tell you what, Mark, you want, you want to, you want to make the 00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:34.600 announcement? You want to say this? You want me to, you want to put the cat out of the bag? Like, 00:37:34.600 --> 00:37:39.480 how should we like, you say a word and then I say a word and then we bounce back and forth. Like, 00:37:39.480 --> 00:37:43.160 we didn't actually talk about this. How, how do you want to communicate this right now? 00:37:43.160 --> 00:37:50.040 Well, considering you're in an echoey, uh, airport lobby right now, I will say it and then you can 00:37:50.040 --> 00:37:55.320 comment on it. So we're really excited here at the church digital and also myself personally, 00:37:55.320 --> 00:38:00.920 um, to announce that we're going to be launching a new podcast inside of the church digital network 00:38:00.920 --> 00:38:05.800 network and, uh, the church digital, uh, podcast network. I, I, I don't know. There's so many 00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.480 networks at this point. It's hard to keep track all the time. Um, but if you would go visit the 00:38:09.480 --> 00:38:13.080 church digital, you can look and see this network of podcasts and there's going to be a new one 00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:17.760 that's going to spin off from this. Um, in addition to that, we're working on writing a book in the 00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:23.720 background right now, uh, that goes off of this material that we're talking about. Um, that's going 00:38:23.720 --> 00:38:29.720 to give some of the ideology, the theology and the ecclesiology for churches in digital space, 00:38:29.720 --> 00:38:35.720 specifically inside of the gaming community at the front half of that book. And so it's all about 00:38:35.720 --> 00:38:40.600 deconstructing our view of digital relationship and digital space, and then reconstructing a more 00:38:40.600 --> 00:38:45.720 accurate view of what digital space really is and how the next generation is using it and how current 00:38:45.720 --> 00:38:50.600 digital natives are using it. From there, we're going to dive really heavily into some of the stories of 00:38:50.600 --> 00:38:55.960 the very people that you actually heard here as we look at a pest and we're going to be breaking that 00:38:55.960 --> 00:39:02.280 down through looking at the five, five fold, the five fold ministry of the spirit of God inside the 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.280 church and how that's being lived out inside a digital space and wrap that up with helping you 00:39:06.280 --> 00:39:12.280 understand exactly how it is that you as a church leader can dive into that. But between here and 00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:17.400 the actual launch and production and all of that of the book that's coming, um, we're going to be 00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:24.280 continuing this conversation that we're doing through season four on an entirely new feed that's due to 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:28.600 come out either somewhere around the end of April or the beginning of May in which I'm going to be 00:39:28.600 --> 00:39:34.440 taking the lead on that show. Jeff's going to continue to do the church digital podcast and move on into 00:39:34.440 --> 00:39:38.840 season five and what's next for this show. And I'm going to be spinning off a new show that's going to be 00:39:38.840 --> 00:39:46.200 directly connecting to gamers, game culture, nerd culture, what God is doing in that space. So we don't 00:39:46.200 --> 00:39:51.960 know formally everything. I'm not ready to announce like who co-hosts are and exactly what the format is 00:39:51.960 --> 00:39:57.240 going to be. Um, we're ironing out all of those details, but we're really excited to start recording 00:39:57.240 --> 00:40:04.280 and launch that new show. So stay tuned to this feed in season five, because we'll let you know how 00:40:04.280 --> 00:40:09.160 you can get plugged in to the new show that's going to be dealing with gamers and how you can get plugged 00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:14.760 into the Twitch and all of that stuff, following what God's already at work doing inside of the 00:40:14.760 --> 00:40:19.560 gaming and online gaming communities. And so we hope that you'll come along the road along that journey 00:40:19.560 --> 00:40:25.080 with us. Um, and, uh, and you know, follow along with what we see God is doing. And we're really 00:40:25.080 --> 00:40:29.560 excited to bring you the inside scoop. Really. Let's give you an eye inside of it. If you don't 00:40:29.560 --> 00:40:33.800 know the culture and you don't know how to get into it, let's just give you a chance, you know, 00:40:33.800 --> 00:40:38.600 a little, a little peek behind the curtain and a look behind the door to see what God is already 00:40:38.600 --> 00:40:44.840 doing in this space and see how you can get involved. Yeah. Mark, like I said, Mark's one of the 00:40:44.840 --> 00:40:50.360 forefront leaders right now in the gaming church movement because of everything to do. Just said 00:40:50.360 --> 00:40:57.720 like so good. So on point, uh, remember in digital church context, gamer churches is, is the fastest 00:40:57.720 --> 00:41:06.120 growing model right now. And so we are seeing so much improvement, so much gain, uh, so much traction 00:41:06.120 --> 00:41:11.320 is probably the better word in that space. And so we're excited to release this show. You can check 00:41:11.320 --> 00:41:17.960 out the church.digital slash podcast. And so you'll have more, uh, we'll have more on that. 00:41:17.960 --> 00:41:22.280 We'll be sure to get the word out via email and through all the communities. Uh, once that, 00:41:22.280 --> 00:41:27.000 that spins up and goes public, I'm so excited about the book, uh, and, and, and, and working 00:41:27.000 --> 00:41:31.000 with Mark on that and seeing it, you said, you said three words real quick that I was like, 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:37.320 Oh, that's good. Um, what were they? It was, uh, ideology, ideology, theology, ideology, 00:41:37.320 --> 00:41:46.920 theology, and ecclesiology, all of theologies. So, so good. And so looking forward to, to seeing 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:52.680 that even currently develop or aiming for that to release sometime, hopefully late 23 and get that 00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:59.880 out there, uh, publicly very soon and definitely excited to see what's happening with the nerd culture 00:41:59.880 --> 00:42:08.040 ministry collective and our culture ministry summit. Um, love that I nerd and anything else that that's 00:42:08.040 --> 00:42:12.520 happening here in that space. It's a little weird. I just lifted my shirt up publicly and people around 00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:16.840 are like, what's that guy doing? So I just don't worry about, I'm not going to do that again. I don't 00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:23.720 think I can pull that off a third time. Okay. Um, anyway, this is so good, right? But we're going to land 00:42:23.720 --> 00:42:29.480 a plane. Like this has been a fun conversation. Uh, I'm not in an airport, but I might as well be. 00:42:29.720 --> 00:42:36.440 And this has been a great time. It's been a great season. Mark was, Mark was tipping off season five 00:42:36.440 --> 00:42:40.760 with the church digital podcast. We're going to roll that out in May. We're going to take a couple 00:42:40.760 --> 00:42:45.560 of weeks. I'll tell you next week is going to be a great podcast. Uh, we're bringing in Neil Cole. 00:42:45.560 --> 00:42:53.160 Neil is one of the forefathers of the modern, um, micro church movement, the organic church movement. 00:42:53.160 --> 00:42:57.240 He wrote a book a decade ago, ironically for leadership network, one of the organizations I 00:42:57.240 --> 00:43:03.560 work for now that I write books for now, but he wrote a book called church 3.0 that when I read it 00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:12.520 blew my mind. And as I read this book on micro church movement, Neil Cole was actually the guy 00:43:12.520 --> 00:43:18.920 that, that created in me this desire to do micro church strategies, to look at digital through a 00:43:18.920 --> 00:43:26.360 micro church lens, um, contextualization, scalability, reproduction. A lot of these things that we talk 00:43:26.360 --> 00:43:31.960 about in church context, digital church context, guess what came from this guy, Neil Cole, uh, 00:43:31.960 --> 00:43:37.640 who's one of these well-spoken leaders in, in, in the micro church movement. And he honestly, 00:43:37.640 --> 00:43:44.280 he talks a lot in context about how he was, he was the guy really before his time. Uh, he was pushing 00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:50.600 ideas as an innovator before micro church was even accepted in the United States. And so some of the 00:43:50.600 --> 00:43:55.960 challenges of being ahead of the curve that far ahead, you know, we talk about how, um, 00:43:56.920 --> 00:44:01.720 what, what, what, what is it we say? We say that, that, um, oh my gosh, what's, what's the line that 00:44:01.720 --> 00:44:09.160 where, uh, um, settlers get rich, pioneers get shot. You know, we talk in that in greater detail. 00:44:09.160 --> 00:44:13.240 That's the line. Mark was coming in to save the day. I was, I was going to jump back in. Yeah. 00:44:14.200 --> 00:44:18.360 I appreciate you having my back, my friend. That was good. I'll, I'll get your name for that. 00:44:18.360 --> 00:44:27.240 Yeah. I mean, yeah, it just sounds like you have a mouthful of slime right now. And you're 00:44:27.240 --> 00:44:33.960 trying to say an L is all that sounded like, but I am so excited about the conversation next week with 00:44:33.960 --> 00:44:39.320 Neil Cole, Jay, uh, Jason Morris, JMO coming in for the conversation as well, because Neil Cole was 00:44:39.320 --> 00:44:46.760 hugely influential in JMO's life and digital strategy with that. So it's going to be a podcast. You are not 00:44:46.760 --> 00:44:51.080 going to want to miss great stuff. Digging into it. We're going to land a plane here on season 00:44:51.080 --> 00:44:56.840 four right now. Thank you, Mark. Thank you, Andy. Thank you. All the guests. I could try to rattle 00:44:56.840 --> 00:45:01.400 them off. I would probably miss some, but there've been so many that have come and have had conversations 00:45:01.400 --> 00:45:06.040 around this. We had to reschedule a couple of shows. We're going to get them probably this summer. 00:45:06.040 --> 00:45:12.120 Really interesting ones centered around, um, mental health and gamer space and, and how do we handle some 00:45:12.120 --> 00:45:16.680 of these difficult situations? Um, we can, we'll get into that in a little bit. We'll tease it later. 00:45:16.680 --> 00:45:23.560 But so much and definitely excited about what Mark is doing as we're extending Jesus gamers in church 00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:30.680 into a new show and even developing this as, as a book to help future churches, future gamer churches 00:45:30.680 --> 00:45:35.880 get started and understand the, whatever the three words he said that was so good, but I just, I need 00:45:35.880 --> 00:45:39.960 to write them down and have them in front of me. And I can't because I'm where I am. Do it, Mark. 00:45:39.960 --> 00:45:47.000 Ideology, theology, and ecclesiology. Okay. They're very good. Like I said, that's why he's the expert. 00:45:47.000 --> 00:45:51.240 And that's why I'm, I'm just the pretty face of this thing, but Hey, we're going to land the plane. 00:45:51.240 --> 00:45:55.320 So for Mark, for Andy, for everybody else who was a part of this, I'm Jeff with the church, 00:45:55.320 --> 00:45:59.320 digital digital church network. Thanks for jumping on the podcast here. 00:45:59.320 --> 00:46:03.240 Neal Cole next week. See y'all then. Y'all have a good day. 00:46:03.240 --> 00:46:04.240 Thank you.