WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.740 the church digital podcast is, it's going to be a little different than what you're used to. We're 00:00:04.740 --> 00:00:08.800 not bringing in one guy to have a conversation with. We're not bringing in two. We're actually 00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:13.940 bringing in three different people to have a conversation. And on top of that, they're IT 00:00:13.940 --> 00:00:19.060 guys. Like, I don't know if you spend much time hanging out with IT guys, but I'll just tell you 00:00:19.060 --> 00:00:24.260 up front, they're a little weird. You get jokes like this. Why is beef stew a horrible password? 00:00:24.260 --> 00:00:31.420 Why is beef stew a horrible password? Because it's not strong enough. Yeah. Weird. How does a 00:00:31.420 --> 00:00:37.220 computer get drunk? Don't think about that one. It takes screenshots, a computer screenshots. You 00:00:37.220 --> 00:00:46.100 start to see how bad it is. Why do we not call an iPhone charger Apple juice? Okay. Now, I actually 00:00:46.100 --> 00:00:53.280 think that's legitimate, but these are IT guy humor jokes. And if you hang around IT guys long enough, 00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:58.340 you start to discover, at least I do in my life, they're a little weird. Okay. They're really, 00:00:58.460 --> 00:01:04.260 really weird. So we got three IT guys coming into this conversation today at the church digital. 00:01:04.640 --> 00:01:10.720 Jason Powell, who has a very awesome title that he will share with you from Granger church. Another 00:01:10.720 --> 00:01:18.080 IT guy coming in, Matt Pugh from McLean Bible church, a huge church over on the East coast. And then 00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:25.340 also Jason Lee, who's with Northwoods up in center. And these guys have been doing ministry for a long 00:01:25.340 --> 00:01:31.560 time. These guys have been doing church IT and church technology for a long time. Bringing these 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:36.540 guys together, I got to tell you, I wanted to have a conversation about camaraderie and community. 00:01:37.320 --> 00:01:42.680 But honestly, the thing that I learned the most about was relationships and the value and the necessity 00:01:42.680 --> 00:01:50.600 of relationships. So while you might not be the IT guy, and you may, like me, think that IT guys are a 00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:57.300 little weird because they are. There's a lot that you can learn from three IT guys talking about 00:01:57.300 --> 00:02:04.160 camaraderie and community in context of ministry. Hey everybody, here you go. Hey, Jason Powell, 00:02:04.160 --> 00:02:09.200 because we got a couple of Jasons in the conversation here. Man, just take a minute. Tell me a little bit 00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:15.720 about yourself and kind of how you got wrapped up in this church thing. Sure. My name is Jason Powell. 00:02:15.820 --> 00:02:22.600 I'm the tech ops director at Granger community church. This is my 16th year at this position. 00:02:24.240 --> 00:02:30.340 Prior to that, I was the IT director for a large school system in Northern Indiana. And prior to that, 00:02:30.340 --> 00:02:38.240 I was a high school accelerated and advanced placement teacher. So quite an interesting journey to get into 00:02:38.240 --> 00:02:46.420 the church world. The short story is my best friend in college became the youth pastor at Granger 00:02:46.420 --> 00:02:53.280 community church. And out of the blue one day called me up and said, Hey, we've got an opening for an IT 00:02:53.280 --> 00:03:02.380 guy and I think you should be it. And, uh, and the next thing I know we're praying and God is doing amazing God 00:03:02.380 --> 00:03:11.520 things. And we're moving from Wisconsin to Indiana and you know, 16 years later, like it's still kind of 00:03:11.520 --> 00:03:19.420 amazing to go. Yeah, this, this is where we're at. And you know, yeah, just really, really fun. 00:03:19.420 --> 00:03:24.500 And, and then we got Matt, uh, jump, jumping on as well. Now, Matt, you've not been 16 years, 00:03:24.500 --> 00:03:31.540 right? Is Jason the veteran here? Oh, he's definitely, he's definitely got us, uh, probably outnumbered by 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:39.800 several, several years. Um, but you know, I've been, I've been doing, doing IT in the church world for 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:46.220 probably coming on 10 years now, uh, in just different capacities, uh, from just managing, 00:03:46.220 --> 00:03:53.080 uh, CHMS for our church here to working at fellowship one for four and a half years to coming 00:03:53.080 --> 00:03:58.340 back as the IT director here at McLean Bible church, um, just outside Washington, DC. 00:03:58.700 --> 00:04:03.940 What's the greatest story you can share quickly outside of working at, at McLean? Uh, so F1 00:04:03.940 --> 00:04:12.240 fellowship one, give me something there. Uh, greatest story. Oh, good grief. Um, there, there's, 00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:19.060 there's lots of, uh, of stories of that. I wouldn't say are necessarily IT related or, or job 00:04:19.060 --> 00:04:26.640 related of, um, being on site with different churches. Uh, uh, a friend of a coworker of mine 00:04:26.640 --> 00:04:33.060 and I were at doing a, uh, an implementation at a church, uh, in Atlanta. And we happened 00:04:33.060 --> 00:04:39.300 to drive down to where they were filming the walking dead. And we were, uh, walking around 00:04:39.300 --> 00:04:44.700 the town and you could see the wall was like, was, uh, the wall was up. And so they were 00:04:44.700 --> 00:04:48.240 filming that day and you can see the lights on the other side of the wall and everything. 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:53.540 But since we're completely out of town people, no one knows who we are. So we walk into this 00:04:53.540 --> 00:04:58.060 restaurant and you could tell everybody in the room was kind of staring at us, wondering 00:04:58.060 --> 00:05:04.320 if we were actors, uh, uh, zombies. We're just out of, uh, out of makeup or something. And 00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:09.600 because we're both bald headed guys tall, like it was, uh, it was pretty funny because we got 00:05:09.600 --> 00:05:14.660 a lot of strange looks while we were in there just trying to get some dinner. So that's probably 00:05:14.660 --> 00:05:19.860 one of the funniest, uh, funniest experiences, uh, that I've had just, you know, traveled around 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:24.280 doing church consulting. That's, that's awesome. I was, I was hoping to hear you say you were 00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:29.280 going to be like an episode four of season six or something like that, but, but no such 00:05:29.280 --> 00:05:34.480 luck. There were other random zombie looking people, but not, not you, you, you didn't make 00:05:34.480 --> 00:05:39.420 that cut. No, definitely. Yeah. Love to talk to your casting agent for that. And then thirdly, 00:05:39.420 --> 00:05:46.800 um, we've got Jason, uh, Lee on and so Jason, you know, no zombie stories, I'm sure for you, 00:05:46.800 --> 00:05:51.940 but, uh, give us a little bit of your background. Yeah. So, um, I'm, uh, the online campus pastor 00:05:51.940 --> 00:05:59.040 and IT director at Northwoods church in Peoria, Illinois. Uh, been here just over 13 years, but, 00:05:59.160 --> 00:06:05.120 uh, doing church IT since 02. So I might've squeaked in there just a little bit longer than, uh, 00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:12.140 pal or Matt, but, uh, um, my story is a little unique in that, uh, early on in our time as church 00:06:12.140 --> 00:06:18.040 IT network, I was one of the few guys who wore the hat as a pastoral role in addition to be a 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:26.320 technologist. And so, uh, um, you know, from the very beginning of my time in ministry, I knew that 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:30.940 I had been called to do ministry, but I knew I did not want to do, um, let's say student ministry 00:06:30.940 --> 00:06:35.860 or, uh, things like that where all the, you know, all of my colleagues went, uh, to do, uh, 00:06:35.860 --> 00:06:41.180 use ministry internships out of, out of college. And then I, you know, that was not my thing. 00:06:41.180 --> 00:06:46.680 And so, um, just knew that God had kind of gifted me a little more in the sense of a mind to use 00:06:46.680 --> 00:06:51.940 technology and to help the church and have a vision and a passion for, you know, the church using tech 00:06:51.940 --> 00:06:57.120 to achieve the vision and the goals of what our leadership wanted to achieve. And, uh, really that's 00:06:57.120 --> 00:07:02.640 just, um, uh, been a common, common camaraderie among the three of us. And, uh, especially those 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:07.740 that are, are in the church IT network. It's just a kind of a, a common place where people have found 00:07:07.740 --> 00:07:14.580 likeness, uh, like-mindedness, um, uh, just kind of, um, you know, a place where it feels like home 00:07:14.580 --> 00:07:21.120 where you're understood. Um, but, you know, I, I, I love to see the church, uh, harnessing technology 00:07:21.120 --> 00:07:26.340 to solve problems. Uh, and that's kind of been, you know, what has kept me going over the years, 00:07:26.340 --> 00:07:31.940 uh, of working in the church and just the, um, just the journey that we're on, um, you know, 00:07:31.940 --> 00:07:37.860 and really have been part of, um, this community, the church IT network since about 06, uh, and just 00:07:37.860 --> 00:07:43.380 seeing it grow from just, uh, you know, a small handful of people to now hundreds of people who are, 00:07:43.380 --> 00:07:49.080 um, in our, in our sphere of influence that are contributing and adding their thoughts and 00:07:49.080 --> 00:07:53.660 perspective to the community. It's just, uh, it's been a cool journey. Part of what I wanted to talk 00:07:53.660 --> 00:07:59.260 about it and Jason kind of eloquently set it up right there. It's just this idea of, of camaraderie, 00:07:59.260 --> 00:08:04.980 um, in that, um, I'll, I'll be honest, like I'm sitting in the room here and virtual room here and, 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:13.780 and Matt, you were 10 years, right? Um, Jason, uh, Powell was 16. Jason Lee, you were, I don't 00:08:13.780 --> 00:08:17.640 remember if you said, but you're somewhere around 10 where, where you are at your church, right? 00:08:17.640 --> 00:08:23.880 I've been here 13. Yeah. 13. Yeah. So, so 10, 10's the youngest. I haven't had a ministry job longer 00:08:23.880 --> 00:08:29.800 than four years in my life. Like, and I just, I openly confess that. Okay. Um, and, and at this 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:36.740 point I've actually stepped outside of, of a full-time ministry job, staff, church staff job. Uh, I am 00:08:36.740 --> 00:08:42.020 actually consulting very deeply with several churches, um, and helping at a high level, but 00:08:42.020 --> 00:08:47.960 for me, and this is, maybe this is a Jeff Reed issue. Uh, I've always, when I've been in, 00:08:48.080 --> 00:08:54.080 in church staffs, I've always been the weird guy, not like the, the techie guy that just wants to talk 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:59.960 about Marvel cinematic universe all day. Although Spider-Man leaving the MCU is catastrophic. And 00:08:59.960 --> 00:09:04.000 I've already talked about that in other podcasts. I don't need to go there now, but it's, it's been 00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:10.160 the, I think different than everybody else in the entire church. Um, I've oftentimes I've had 00:09:10.160 --> 00:09:14.900 conversations with, with, um, there was a spiritual development pastor at a church that I worked at 00:09:14.900 --> 00:09:19.640 and, and, and the pastor, he asked me, so it's like, do you consider yourself a pastor? 00:09:20.220 --> 00:09:25.180 And I said, I don't know, how do you define a pastor? And he said, well, I define the pastor 00:09:25.180 --> 00:09:30.960 as the biblical, you know, and started reading it to me. And I was like, yeah, I consider myself a 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.860 pastor if, if that's the thing. And then, then he's like, well, why do you do so much with the tech? 00:09:35.900 --> 00:09:42.000 And I was like, because I can be pastoral and techie at the same time, can't I? But that's, 00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:48.120 that's this, this weird balance where a lot of times in church, you, you've got the, this, 00:09:48.240 --> 00:09:54.120 the pastors and the, and the, and the, the techie people that, that aren't considered pastors in 00:09:54.120 --> 00:09:59.860 that, in that part. I've spent years alone. I've spent years frustrated. I feel like this is 00:09:59.860 --> 00:10:04.000 confession hour. I'm going to start bawling. I got Kleenexes over here. Um, but I've just, 00:10:04.080 --> 00:10:08.580 there have been years that I felt alone. Yeah. Thank you. Jason's got some for me. Um, 00:10:09.000 --> 00:10:11.960 where I've spent years alone. I've said this four times now, 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:17.340 because there weren't people like me, uh, the church that I was at, didn't have a lot of budget 00:10:17.340 --> 00:10:24.540 for conferences. I just, I didn't know how to connect with people who were thinking like me. 00:10:24.540 --> 00:10:28.360 And there were questions that I needed answered that I didn't have the answers to. 00:10:28.740 --> 00:10:32.740 And just to be completely honest, I didn't know who to talk to, to get those answers. 00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:37.080 And then it was, was funny. Like, this is just pure testimony for me. A couple of years ago, 00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:43.020 I went to a church conference, um, a church tech conference and my brain exploded because I was 00:10:43.020 --> 00:10:47.900 surrounded by people who thought the same things I was thinking, who struggled with the same questions 00:10:47.900 --> 00:10:52.760 that I was struggling with and, and who were wanting to have conversations with it. And all of a sudden 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:58.100 I found myself surrounded with this idea of, Hey, there's camaraderie. There, there are people 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:06.180 like this out there. I'm not alone and not being alone really validated who I, who I was, at least 00:11:06.180 --> 00:11:11.720 to me, it gave me confidence to say, Hey, I don't have the answer to this question, but neither do 25 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:17.400 other churches. And at least 24 of them are trying to come up with answers. So, so we should, you know, 00:11:17.400 --> 00:11:23.100 as, as well. And that's why I love, and all you guys with, with the CITN, I, and what I really 00:11:23.100 --> 00:11:28.720 want to park on is what, what does camaraderie look like? And what are some stories either from 00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:35.440 yourself or others? Because as, as a, as churches out there and as listeners are out there, yeah, 00:11:35.440 --> 00:11:40.760 there are podcasts, there are ways to, that we can resource in different ways, but even through 00:11:40.760 --> 00:11:45.620 conferences and through the network that you're doing, you're, you're helping churches come up with 00:11:45.620 --> 00:11:51.040 answers to questions and you're encouraging these people that, that need encouragement. So, you know, 00:11:51.040 --> 00:11:55.820 from a practical standpoint, CITN, what, what are you guys actually doing to help solve these problems? 00:11:57.220 --> 00:12:03.040 Well, I think one of the things that our community has brought to each other is this is like you've 00:12:03.040 --> 00:12:09.400 talked about this, that longevity and survivability. There's only for so long that you can go into a 00:12:09.400 --> 00:12:14.840 ministry and go off of your experience and go off of what you've done in the past. And that starts to 00:12:14.840 --> 00:12:21.600 run out a few years into it. And I think the big piece of what we do as a community is people are 00:12:21.600 --> 00:12:28.540 coming in our Slack channel or in our forum and saying, Hey, this came back from this meeting. I've 00:12:28.540 --> 00:12:34.000 been tasked with this. I'm supposed to solve this problem and I need to do it in the next 24 hours. 00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:40.320 And then suddenly there's a community of people who are offering solutions and probably, you know, all sorts 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:45.820 of solutions to the problems that some of them are duct tape and bailing wire type solutions. But it's the 00:12:45.820 --> 00:12:53.340 collaboration of, like you said, we're like-minded and like thinking people who many live, eat and breathe 00:12:53.340 --> 00:13:00.880 technology, but also have a passion for the church moving forward. And so trying to solve those problems 00:13:00.880 --> 00:13:04.800 using technology. And I think that that's one of the things for me, I don't think I could have 00:13:04.800 --> 00:13:10.680 been in the role that I've been in for the last, you know, 10, 13 years without the community around 00:13:10.680 --> 00:13:16.300 me to just say, Oh my gosh, I have no idea how to go about solving that problem. Or I can't believe 00:13:16.300 --> 00:13:21.540 somebody just asked me to come back with this solution in that short of a time period. And yet the 00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:27.340 community rallies around one another and says, Hey, I've solved that problem before this way. Or have you 00:13:27.340 --> 00:13:31.740 thought of, you know, doing it differently, or it is that kind of camaraderie and partnership. And, 00:13:32.040 --> 00:13:36.920 you know, honestly, the leadership team of Church IT Network has become some of my closest compadres 00:13:36.920 --> 00:13:42.380 in ministry. And, you know, we bounce things off of each other in a smaller segment of our community 00:13:42.380 --> 00:13:47.220 of just, how would you solve this problem? Or, you know, man, can you believe this person said this? 00:13:47.220 --> 00:13:52.000 Or, you know, whatever it might be. And there's honest conversations of, yes, I can believe they said 00:13:52.000 --> 00:13:55.280 that because they were right and you're wrong. Or no, I can't believe they said that because that's 00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:59.860 totally crazy, right? There's that honest give and take. And I think, you know, it's no different than 00:13:59.860 --> 00:14:06.940 the church being the church to one another. I mean, in any aspect of what we do, it's all about we want 00:14:06.940 --> 00:14:11.120 people in community, right? And so this is community for technologists in the church. 00:14:12.320 --> 00:14:19.180 And Jeff, I think you hit it on the head. Kind of the thing that's been in my mind and my heart 00:14:19.180 --> 00:14:26.100 that since kind of getting into Church IT, well, initially, like, I didn't know anybody else in 00:14:26.100 --> 00:14:36.960 Church IT. So I felt like I was all alone. I was the, you know, only hire here. And, you know, 00:14:37.080 --> 00:14:44.620 it felt like, you know, a prompting from God kept saying, you know, what, what might God do 00:14:44.620 --> 00:14:52.180 if a bunch of like-minded individuals got together and talked, you know, just about what's going on, 00:14:52.300 --> 00:14:58.980 you know, what questions do you have? What, what failures have you experienced so that I don't run 00:14:58.980 --> 00:15:07.940 into them again? And that's really what started the Church IT Network was that that's the idea. 00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:16.260 If we could get a bunch of like-minded individuals in the same room, man, what would God do with that? 00:15:17.020 --> 00:15:26.160 You know, a lot of it is just sharing successes and failures, you know, hey, we're getting ready to do 00:15:26.160 --> 00:15:33.940 a project on voice integration, you know, well, good grief, don't do it this way, because we tried this, 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:38.380 and we, you know, spent so much time and energy and resources, and it was a complete fail, 00:15:38.380 --> 00:15:46.260 or even just connecting into partners of the Church IT Network that provide, you know, not only 00:15:46.260 --> 00:15:55.740 hardware and software services, but just their expertise. So it's really cool that the Church IT Network is 00:15:57.820 --> 00:16:05.580 we have staff and volunteers, and we've got some amazing partners that have come alongside us and 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:13.120 understand like the mission, vision, and values of the Church IT Network, and they help foster that and 00:16:13.120 --> 00:16:18.700 promote it. So, well, you know, let's, you know, thank you for that, but let's, let's make it a little 00:16:18.700 --> 00:16:28.460 practical here. So like, what, I'm a, I'm an IT guy, I'm a new Church Online guy, I'm a social media person, 00:16:28.460 --> 00:16:35.200 I deal with technology all day long, maybe I'm, I'm starting to come into some production AV stuff, 00:16:35.360 --> 00:16:41.500 and it's, or it's a mixed role. How can Church IT Network, how can you guys help me? 00:16:42.220 --> 00:16:50.500 Um, oh, I think, I think it's, it comes down to just the, the, the extent of the resources that of, 00:16:50.560 --> 00:16:55.660 of the individuals that are involved, uh, and the, the sharing of those little golden nuggets of 00:16:55.660 --> 00:17:01.400 information. Uh, a lot of times, I don't know how many times I've been in a room where someone in the 00:17:01.400 --> 00:17:07.420 room is just casually talking about something and says like that one little thing that they just assumed 00:17:07.420 --> 00:17:13.000 everybody else knew. And everybody else in the room goes, wait, wait, what did you just say? Like, 00:17:13.160 --> 00:17:21.900 rewind that. Let's, what? And, and it's like this, like, it just reveals so much to the people that 00:17:21.900 --> 00:17:28.480 are in, that are just in communication and just in, in, in the room together to, that really furthers 00:17:28.480 --> 00:17:32.940 their church. Cause now they've learned this one little thing that was insanely valuable that they 00:17:32.940 --> 00:17:39.720 didn't even know they, that they needed to know. And it's, it's, it's, it's those, those conversations 00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:47.300 and those interactions that really, um, that really drive this community. Uh, it's the things 00:17:47.300 --> 00:17:52.700 that you have no idea that are going to happen are the things that create the biggest impact. 00:17:53.160 --> 00:17:58.400 churches, small churches, who, who really gets involved with you guys? Everyone. I mean, it's, 00:17:58.440 --> 00:18:06.960 it's a, it's a, it's wide array of, uh, different size churches from the, the one, the one guy IT shop 00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:15.140 to the churches that have IT departments of five, six, seven, eight, 10 people. Um, yeah, I mean, 00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:19.760 everyone, we, I mean, we even got some nonprofits that, uh, that send people every once in a while. 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:26.020 Um, and then we've, I mean, we got, you know, the partners as well. There's a lot of partner 00:18:26.020 --> 00:18:33.760 involvement, not just from a standpoint of, Hey, let me be, um, kind of a sponsor of your national 00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:38.780 or regional events, but let me just be a part of this community because they learn just as much 00:18:38.780 --> 00:18:45.560 information as they are able to share into the network. So, um, it's, it's beneficial to kind of 00:18:45.560 --> 00:18:50.740 everyone that's involved. I think that's one of the things for our community is that it's an 00:18:50.740 --> 00:18:56.460 expectation that everybody's a contributor and everybody's a learner. Somebody has something to 00:18:56.460 --> 00:19:01.000 give that somebody can learn from. And they, there's always people that you can learn from. 00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:04.940 And we always tell people, if you come to our conference or our one day regional events, 00:19:04.940 --> 00:19:09.300 or you're part of the community and you're not getting your questions answered, well, shame on you. 00:19:09.300 --> 00:19:15.720 Um, but the same size side of it is, is when you, when you participate, you're teaching and offering 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:21.600 something at the same way. We laugh that oftentimes, you know, some of the larger, uh, mega churches 00:19:21.600 --> 00:19:26.880 will have a solution or have a problem. And if some of the churches that are much smaller, that will 00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:33.320 have these amazing solutions that are so incredibly cost-effective because that's out of necessity, 00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:37.880 they've had to figure out how to solve some of these problems. And so we laugh at some of these, 00:19:37.880 --> 00:19:42.960 what appear to be bailing wire and duct tape type solutions, but they're genius and they cost 00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:47.940 nothing. And then everyone in the community steals the idea because it, you know, it's virtually free 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:53.460 versus, you know, uh, someone might be looking at a multi-thousand dollar type solution. And then, 00:19:53.460 --> 00:19:56.980 you know, somebody hops up and said, well, have you ever thought of this? Have you seen such and such a 00:19:56.980 --> 00:20:02.740 website? Have you, and it's like, Oh, I didn't even know that free thing existed. Um, and so that's where I think 00:20:02.740 --> 00:20:06.560 it doesn't matter the size of your church or the years of experience that you've had in the church 00:20:06.560 --> 00:20:12.720 space. You've got something to offer as somebody who, um, is a technologist to our community. And 00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:16.540 that's what's so exciting is some of the solutions that come up. It's like, I would have never thought 00:20:16.540 --> 00:20:21.340 of that on my own. And may I, you know, and the expectation is I'm, I'm to steal it, make it better 00:20:21.340 --> 00:20:25.400 and then bring it back. Uh, you know, and that is just something we communicate all the time is, 00:20:25.680 --> 00:20:29.500 and that's what I love about what, you know, how Jason has started this as a collaboration of 00:20:29.500 --> 00:20:34.560 community of collaboration in that, you know, your, your responsibility is to take this idea, 00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:40.020 take it home, make it 10 times better, and then bring it back and let someone else then learn from 00:20:40.020 --> 00:20:46.660 it and glean from it. And that's just the expectation of thou shalt steal ideas, only ideas. Uh, but you 00:20:46.660 --> 00:20:53.100 know, within our community. Yeah, absolutely. And so quick fun story at the very first event, 00:20:53.100 --> 00:21:03.920 we had churches ranging from attendance of 200 up to over 20,000. Um, and it was amazing 00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:10.980 that, uh, Terry Chapman, who was the IT director at fellowship Bible, you know, Ed Young's church, 00:21:10.980 --> 00:21:18.200 like one of the smaller churches, um, he mentioned something about script logic and printing and they 00:21:18.200 --> 00:21:25.260 just couldn't figure it out. And one of the smaller churches had a solution for him and it blew his 00:21:25.260 --> 00:21:34.200 mind because I distinctly remember him saying, uh, you know, he, you know, basically I came here not 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:40.380 expecting much and I'm going to go home with a solution that I don't know that we would have ever 00:21:40.380 --> 00:21:47.660 figured out. And so it was just affirmation that man, everybody's a learner and everybody can 00:21:47.660 --> 00:21:54.340 present. And, you know, so peer learning community inspiration have been like the, the three pillars that 00:21:54.340 --> 00:21:59.900 we've landed on and, uh, built on over the years. And it's, it's just part of who we are. So it doesn't 00:21:59.900 --> 00:22:05.040 matter if, you know, your new spring, new spring brings a bunch of guys to the conference and gals, 00:22:05.040 --> 00:22:12.580 or if you're a one man IT shop, or maybe you're just a volunteer in your church and, uh, you've got 00:22:12.580 --> 00:22:17.800 a way to, you know, get to Kansas city this fall, man, we, we would love to have you. And I guarantee 00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:25.360 no matter where you're at on the learning spectrum, uh, there is something for you, not only, um, 00:22:26.360 --> 00:22:32.340 locationally, but also spiritually. And we're going to feed you a whole bunch of food and you're going 00:22:32.340 --> 00:22:37.020 to, you're going to, your belly is going to be full. So we'll fill your heart, soul, and mind. 00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:44.660 So yeah, great setup on, on, on the conference, heart, soul, and mind. That's, those are three 00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:50.960 high standards, man. Um, belly would be, you know, maybe the asterisk for four, but well done. 00:22:50.960 --> 00:22:59.120 So what areas does, cause IIT and church tech, like those are very broad, uh, scoping areas. 00:22:59.500 --> 00:23:01.060 What do you guys look into a track? 00:23:01.460 --> 00:23:04.320 If you grew up playing the game, Oregon trail, then you should come. 00:23:08.760 --> 00:23:12.360 All right. So that's an inside joke. Even I don't get, so I'm, I'm a little worried. 00:23:12.900 --> 00:23:15.060 You have to come to the conference to understand. 00:23:17.560 --> 00:23:26.260 Well, we got everything. We've got leadership, uh, workshops. We've got online ministry workshops. 00:23:26.260 --> 00:23:34.060 We've got, you know, uh, some SQL workshops. So if you're kind of a, uh, more of a developer 00:23:34.060 --> 00:23:40.880 type person, um, obviously we've got, you know, lots of different I.T. type tracks for say like 00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:50.580 office 365 or Hey, what's new in the world of wifi. Um, we put panels together with, um, not only 00:23:50.580 --> 00:23:57.400 partner experts, but church experts. So, you know, we'll have a panel with somebody that's on staff 00:23:57.400 --> 00:24:03.360 at a church and maybe a partner and they can present together on a particular solution or whatever. 00:24:03.360 --> 00:24:11.960 Um, last year, uh, new spring did a great couple of workshops on how they're, you know, utilizing 00:24:11.960 --> 00:24:19.360 Meraki, um, from, you know, the highest level of networking down to, you know, their, their 00:24:19.360 --> 00:24:26.340 switches and, you know, they've gone all Google. And so it's just a place for, you know, there's 00:24:26.340 --> 00:24:32.000 about something for everyone. Um, we've even got the church management solution providers 00:24:32.000 --> 00:24:37.520 there. And so, you know, maybe you're, you know, you wear multiple hats, you know, I have 00:24:37.520 --> 00:24:42.820 to keep track of the database. I've got to make sure that wifi works. I've got to figure out 00:24:42.820 --> 00:24:48.820 what the heck is Dante and how does that interact with, you know, the, the world of it and everything's 00:24:48.820 --> 00:24:54.240 got an IP address for the, you know, the audio video team. And maybe I'm also trying to figure 00:24:54.240 --> 00:25:02.780 out how do I lead up to my boss and, and I'm in charge of the online church and I got to 00:25:02.780 --> 00:25:10.160 figure out how to stream and help people, uh, you know, find Jesus through an online medium. 00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:16.960 Yeah, that's a lot. The tech help, the camaraderie, the, Hey, I need help finding the solution. 00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:21.800 That's, that's one thing. And all that's, that's awesome. The thing that you just told me that 00:25:21.800 --> 00:25:27.660 I'm like, every person who works in tech and church in America needs is that phrase of leading 00:25:27.660 --> 00:25:33.780 up is, uh, you know, how to, so I have this vision. This will help the church. This will 00:25:33.780 --> 00:25:40.160 help reach people. I have to sell it to like leadership who has no idea any of the language 00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:46.060 or the acronyms or the, the talk that I'm saying. Um, you know, the lead pastor still has 00:25:46.060 --> 00:25:52.160 an AOL email address like that, that, that, that type of thing. So, Hey, you know what? Cause, 00:25:52.260 --> 00:25:55.680 cause I'm, I'm serious. Like the listening audience, you know, this listening audience is 00:25:55.680 --> 00:26:01.800 there. Um, drop, drop me a nugget. Give me, give me one thing. Help, help me here. My lead pastor 00:26:01.800 --> 00:26:06.760 still has an AOL email address and I need to convince to him that I need some sort of, of, 00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:10.620 of a tech upgrade thing. What's how do I get started on that road? 00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:17.460 You buy a ticket to church it network conference for 85 bucks and you have a full belly and then 00:26:17.460 --> 00:26:21.420 everybody there will brainstorm ideas on how to solve that problem. 00:26:21.860 --> 00:26:25.180 Come on, not one freebie. You're good. You're going to hold out for the conference. 00:26:26.860 --> 00:26:31.200 That's, that's fine. They're, they're all shaking their head. No, it's all relationship, man. It's, 00:26:31.300 --> 00:26:36.860 you know, that's the thing about what we do is it's so easy to think that technology solves every 00:26:36.860 --> 00:26:42.300 problem. And it's all about the relationships with your colleagues, with your senior leadership. 00:26:42.500 --> 00:26:48.160 It's investing in them relationally in order to have the conversation of bro. Let me just tell 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:54.700 you, honestly, having an AOL address, it's not giving you any credibility. It's not helping you out. 00:26:55.340 --> 00:27:00.560 Uh, what can we do to give you something that has some, some respectability, you know, and an AOL 00:27:00.560 --> 00:27:06.720 email address. Um, maybe in 1980, that was cool, but maybe not now. And I said, but you'll, we only 00:27:06.720 --> 00:27:11.260 can have that conversation when you've invested in that relationship. And so it's all about building 00:27:11.260 --> 00:27:16.720 those relationships so that you can have those conversations. Just this last week had a conversation 00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:21.400 with our senior leadership and just talking about where we're going with online ministry and around 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:27.200 the table. There were very differing perspectives that we didn't agree to disagree, but we all heard 00:27:27.200 --> 00:27:32.140 each other out and appreciated what each person brought to the table. And that only happens 00:27:32.140 --> 00:27:36.260 because of the relationship and the investment that you have in those people that are around 00:27:36.260 --> 00:27:41.860 that table that are outside of the four walls of their offices. It's not because I came and fixed 00:27:41.860 --> 00:27:45.300 your computer. You're not going to believe me when I say this is a trend or this is something 00:27:45.300 --> 00:27:49.520 that's going on or something that, and maybe we're missing. Um, you can only have those type 00:27:49.520 --> 00:27:53.360 of conversations because of the investment relationally. Uh, and I think that, you know, 00:27:53.460 --> 00:27:57.220 I'm better at that because I've seen my colleagues in the community do that. 00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:01.760 And I'm, uh, you know, so it's really the give and take of how we as a community have learned. 00:28:01.940 --> 00:28:05.640 It's not a matter of sitting down and saying, just because I have the title of IT director, 00:28:05.640 --> 00:28:09.740 and I've been doing this for 13 years that you have to listen to me. That's not it at all. 00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:16.360 It's how have I invested in our leadership and built, uh, um, a legacy is probably the wrong 00:28:16.360 --> 00:28:22.740 word, but how have I invested in over time and built credibility among what we do? I think that's 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:27.520 where we have to rely on that is that you can't even start to have those conversations about don't 00:28:27.520 --> 00:28:32.160 do it that way until you've invested and have the credibility and the relationship that supports it 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:36.140 in order to be able to speak into it and say, okay, let's have an honest, transparent conversation. 00:28:36.140 --> 00:28:49.260 Well, and another thing that's been super huge for me is I bring my boss. My boss is the, uh, CFO, 00:28:49.260 --> 00:28:56.680 if you will, the finance director. And so it's been really helpful for him to come to the conferences 00:28:56.680 --> 00:29:05.520 for the past three years, I believe one because it, you know, relationally we get to spend time, uh, you know, 00:29:05.520 --> 00:29:12.480 just, you know, kind of doing life after the conference, you know, hanging out, um, just, just that 00:29:12.480 --> 00:29:20.760 personal time to hang out with each other. Um, and as he's at the conference, you know, he's going to various 00:29:20.760 --> 00:29:26.380 workshops and every year he comes back with kind of some eyes wide open. He's like, wow, 00:29:26.380 --> 00:29:34.800 you know, I was just in a workshop on, you know, uh, virtual online ministry and, uh, you know, 00:29:34.840 --> 00:29:39.900 my mind was blown. I don't even, you know, understand how to wrap my brain around it. And it gives us 00:29:39.900 --> 00:29:47.080 kind of some, uh, both of us handles to be able to talk about stuff and, or, you know, he sat in on a 00:29:47.080 --> 00:29:55.600 budgeting workshop for it and he's like, you know, it just helps open his mind to what we, uh, you know, 00:29:56.080 --> 00:30:02.820 direct reports are doing behind the scenes. And it's just really helpful. You know, you got the, 00:30:02.820 --> 00:30:07.060 the awesome relationship building aspects of it. Cause we do have a lot of fun at the conference 00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:13.980 as well, but you know, you also get them able to maybe learn some stuff about your environment that 00:30:13.980 --> 00:30:20.540 they never thought about before. So, I mean, really relationships swings two ways. Cause, cause at 00:30:20.540 --> 00:30:25.180 this point you're, you're connecting with other churches, but there's an, also another opportunity 00:30:25.180 --> 00:30:31.560 to bring in leadership to have them experience maybe some of the same things you are, but then 00:30:31.560 --> 00:30:39.120 use that as common language to build towards something. So, uh, your CFO experienced something 00:30:39.120 --> 00:30:45.200 in, in church online and online ministry. And so you want to have a common language to talk about, 00:30:45.280 --> 00:30:49.300 okay, the conference said this, what would it take to do that? Here's maybe this works better, 00:30:49.300 --> 00:30:54.840 but at least now you're in the, in the same, like the same ballpark. You're, you're, you're having 00:30:54.840 --> 00:30:59.680 the same conversation. You're on the same road. You know, I've, I've just testimony and I've, 00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:04.440 I've told this story before on the podcast. I've, I've been in, in, in sessions with, uh, with 00:31:04.440 --> 00:31:09.620 church staff where basically I'm at the end of the dock and ready to jump into the water and there's 00:31:09.620 --> 00:31:15.080 not a soul within 500 yards of me. Um, you know, and, and while I'm, you know, turning around and 00:31:15.080 --> 00:31:21.780 asking leadership for advanced high level decisions, uh, because I've been doing the church online for a 00:31:21.780 --> 00:31:27.340 long time, the leadership was at much more of a elementary basic level because I'd been running 00:31:27.340 --> 00:31:34.000 completely on my own and hadn't brought leadership with me through, through the process. So the more 00:31:34.000 --> 00:31:39.600 that leadership can experience that, obviously the better it'll, it'll be for you guys. So a lot of 00:31:39.600 --> 00:31:45.660 our listeners are our church online. And so, cause we, we obviously, we do focus a lot on church online 00:31:45.660 --> 00:31:51.340 and online ministry and that, that sort of thing. Uh, transparently, I I've been working with the, 00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:57.580 uh, with, uh, with you guys and, and, uh, developing some of the online tracks and some things like 00:31:57.580 --> 00:32:01.940 that. And I know Jason, you're, you're involved in that, but what are some things, uh, that we can 00:32:01.940 --> 00:32:07.240 expect in the church online realm specifically? Like what, what does that look like at the conference? 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:13.100 Well, I think, you know, the, the, the cool thing of how our conference have, has evolved is that, 00:32:13.100 --> 00:32:19.640 you know, it used to be conversations about buying storage and network switches. And that was the 00:32:19.640 --> 00:32:23.680 extent of it. You know, I mean, everybody talked about over and over again, you know, what SAN you're 00:32:23.680 --> 00:32:28.080 going to buy, what your, what network infrastructure you're going to have. And it's interesting how the 00:32:28.080 --> 00:32:33.000 conversations have changed from that to a much different conversation. And that's where we felt 00:32:33.000 --> 00:32:38.960 like the online ministry really dovetailed into what we're doing from a core IT perspective, you know, 00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:45.500 because, um, not only does core IT, you know, but also, uh, encompassing the online ministry aspect 00:32:45.500 --> 00:32:52.000 of it. It's also, uh, the church management data side of it. And how do we, um, keep tabs on people 00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:58.040 and care for them and reach out to them without good systems and processes. So online ministry dovetails 00:32:58.040 --> 00:33:05.600 in with that as well. And, and even now just the convergence of IT core IT and, uh, AVL, everything, 00:33:05.780 --> 00:33:12.360 it seems in our, um, production venues now wants to plug in to at least one, if not two networks at 00:33:12.360 --> 00:33:18.240 the same time. And so how do we build those relationships across those teams? So when we have 00:33:18.240 --> 00:33:22.400 those conversations, we are talking with common language. And I think that's the big piece. I mean, 00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:27.040 we even have our, our communications team is bringing, uh, two people this year and there's 00:33:27.040 --> 00:33:32.200 really no, um, vertical or track within our conference for that, but because of their heavy 00:33:32.200 --> 00:33:39.040 involvement in what we do, uh, online, it's giving them perspective in language as well to how do we, 00:33:39.040 --> 00:33:43.960 um, as an online team interact with our communications team, how does our online team interact with our 00:33:43.960 --> 00:33:49.840 AVL team? How does our online team interact with our core IT or our database team? And it really is 00:33:49.840 --> 00:33:55.060 that, you know, there are a few places I think you can go to have those types of conversations where 00:33:55.060 --> 00:34:01.240 there's the overlap of technology, but also then the camaraderie and the synergy that of, of moving 00:34:01.240 --> 00:34:06.440 that forward. You know, I'm, I'm super excited about some of the workshops that we're planning that are 00:34:06.440 --> 00:34:11.880 just kind of stretching the envelope and helping people to think about, you know, 2010, 2013 online 00:34:11.880 --> 00:34:17.820 ministry was basically stream your services, but is that what digital ministry or online ministry is 00:34:17.820 --> 00:34:25.040 in 2019, uh, probably very different. And so how are churches evolving through that? How might someone, 00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:30.640 um, you know, take their church through that transition? Um, how do you help your leadership 00:34:30.640 --> 00:34:35.480 process? What's different? Um, the trends that we're seeing, you know, so I think there's a lot 00:34:35.480 --> 00:34:39.300 of it that, uh, you know, the questions that we're all asking and it's just to be able to get into the 00:34:39.300 --> 00:34:43.700 room and, and, and here you're not alone, uh, and then go back with a plan of, here's some things 00:34:43.700 --> 00:34:48.060 that I think I'm going to steal from somebody else or questions. I'm going to go home and ask and 00:34:48.060 --> 00:34:52.940 hopefully get some answers on. That's awesome. I'll tell you one of the breakouts, uh, that I'm 00:34:52.940 --> 00:34:57.400 writing and this is new, new content to me. I've, I've never done it, but it's, it's a breakout that's 00:34:57.400 --> 00:35:03.560 designed out of conversations with, with all of you, the listeners and people online of church 00:35:03.560 --> 00:35:09.820 online is perceived to, uh, wrestle, to challenge, to take away from the physical church. We're seeing 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:15.140 physical attendance at the physical campuses drop virtual attendance, digital attendance online 00:35:15.140 --> 00:35:21.580 is, is skyrocketing. So therefore, you know, let's shut down the online church. So people will go back 00:35:21.580 --> 00:35:28.700 to physical. Um, and there's, it's 2019 may or may not actually work that way, but let's dive into, 00:35:28.900 --> 00:35:35.620 okay, how can we set up church online and develop a strategy for it so that it complements what's 00:35:35.620 --> 00:35:41.300 happening at the physical church instead of threatening it. A lot of times the, the perceived 00:35:41.300 --> 00:35:47.520 weaknesses of church online isn't the, isn't a weakness. It's actually a strength. We just may 00:35:47.520 --> 00:35:52.280 need to look at it from a different perspective. And so the, the, the goal, uh, for a lot of it's, 00:35:52.280 --> 00:35:58.180 it's called fidgetal. It's a merging of physical and digital into, into that's a single environment. 00:35:58.180 --> 00:36:03.500 And so how church online can do that so that church online can be a strength for the physical 00:36:03.500 --> 00:36:08.540 campuses so that digital can be a strength for the physical campuses instead of something that's 00:36:08.540 --> 00:36:13.400 taboo and an obstacle that that's ignored. Uh, I can tell you that's, that's one thing that I'm 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:16.500 going to be digging into one of the breakouts that I'm teaching and I'm looking forward to 00:36:16.500 --> 00:36:21.760 meeting and, and, and collaborating and sharing and, and, and all that with, with everybody at the 00:36:21.760 --> 00:36:25.240 conference. So when is the, I mean, we've been talking about it. I don't know that we slapped 00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:30.460 dates on it. So when's the conference, how do I sign up? What's the cost? Give, give, give me the, 00:36:30.460 --> 00:36:38.380 the bullets on that. Well, the conference will be October, uh, 20th through the 23rd. 20th is a 00:36:38.380 --> 00:36:41.920 kind of a meet and greet. 21st is when the conference technically starts in the morning. 00:36:42.560 --> 00:36:51.340 Uh, it's going to be about, uh, 85 bucks to register. And that provides for you all of your meals while 00:36:51.340 --> 00:37:00.380 the conference is going on swag, fun, entertainment, uh, inside jokes. Um, just, just a really, really 00:37:00.380 --> 00:37:05.700 good time to connect with, um, with your peers and people that are struggling with the same things 00:37:05.700 --> 00:37:11.700 you're struggling with. Uh, it's going to be in Kansas city at church. I always get it wrong church 00:37:11.700 --> 00:37:19.600 of the resurrection. Uh, and, um, yeah, uh, I don't know if you need any more information. It's 00:37:19.600 --> 00:37:25.420 pretty simple. Go to church it network.com and you can find out more information to get registered. 00:37:26.920 --> 00:37:31.300 Awesome. So check out the website. We'll link it in the show notes as well as generic information, 00:37:31.300 --> 00:37:36.100 general information about the conference and, uh, and, and we'll go from there. Well, Hey, 00:37:36.100 --> 00:37:40.980 this has been great. Thanks for the time. Um, more information on, on church it network, 00:37:40.980 --> 00:37:46.720 check out the show notes and, uh, we'll hopefully see all out there. It's, it's going to be a great 00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:53.740 experience on the online ministry church online side, but also just general, um, it, uh, network 00:37:53.740 --> 00:37:58.720 database programming. There's leadership development, uh, working with it. Like there was just so much 00:37:58.720 --> 00:38:03.000 in that thread, Jason Powell. I don't know how y'all keep it straight, but well done. Well done 00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:08.380 doing it. So, um, gentlemen, any, any last thoughts while we're landing the plane? You'll also, if you 00:38:08.380 --> 00:38:16.420 come see the world's largest stained glass window, is that a legit thing? It is a legit thing. It is 00:38:16.420 --> 00:38:23.440 legit. The largest stained glass window in the world. It's that's a, that's an ironic thing to say for a 00:38:23.440 --> 00:38:27.980 church technology conference. Come see the world's largest stained glass. I mean that that's really 00:38:27.980 --> 00:38:32.540 interesting. Really cool. I knew it was big. I just didn't know it was, was like, like legit 00:38:32.540 --> 00:38:37.460 that book. So well done now. Like I'm not going to put that in the show notes. Cause you don't want 00:38:37.460 --> 00:38:40.820 to see there's a web, there's whole website dedicated to this, but I'm not going to, you're 00:38:40.820 --> 00:38:43.800 going to have to come to the conference to see it. We're not, we're not going to, we're not going 00:38:43.800 --> 00:38:49.260 to let that cat out of the bag. So, Hey, listen, it's been a great, great podcast. Uh, Matt, 00:38:49.260 --> 00:38:55.320 thank you for joining us. Jason, Jason squared, Jason Powell, Jason Lee. Thanks for joining us 00:38:55.320 --> 00:38:59.440 today. My name is Jeff with the church digital. It's been an awesome podcast and, uh, we'll look 00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:01.880 forward to seeing you next time. Thanks for joining. Bye.