WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.840 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological 00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:10.920 innovations within the church. But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:11.760 --> 00:00:16.640 Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:17.380 --> 00:00:22.440 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse 00:00:22.440 --> 00:00:27.920 fit into all this? Whether you're a big or small church, an established church, or a startup church 00:00:27.920 --> 00:00:33.840 plant. The Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:34.460 --> 00:00:40.460 digitally and physically. Our heart, that churches like yours will discover a newfound focus on 00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:46.800 disciple making that will revolutionize your church. And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:53.380 Hey, everybody. We are launching season five of the Church Digital Podcast here. My name is Jeff Reed. 00:00:53.440 --> 00:00:57.080 It's a pleasure to be here with you. Founder of the Church Digital, co-founder of Digital Church 00:00:57.080 --> 00:01:03.700 Network. And oh man, I love every one of my 19 jobs or whatever it is at this point. But we get to do a 00:01:03.700 --> 00:01:08.600 lot of fun stuff centered around digital ministry, digital church, metaverse. Like we could really 00:01:08.600 --> 00:01:14.940 get into some really interesting concepts here as we're launching out season five, as we're talking 00:01:14.940 --> 00:01:21.800 about next level, how to take your digital church, your digital ministry, your metaverse church to the 00:01:21.800 --> 00:01:28.180 next level. The Medford Church, that's actually a category here in 2023. I love it. So hey, listen, 00:01:28.420 --> 00:01:35.840 I was actually challenged by an idea a couple months ago. And it was so good. Not only did I say yes to 00:01:35.840 --> 00:01:40.120 helping this church, but it was like, oh my gosh, this is going to be an incredible opportunity for so 00:01:40.120 --> 00:01:44.680 many. And honestly, I was a little embarrassed. I had thought about myself, but that's why I surround 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:50.560 myself with smart people and listen all the time. And so I'm really excited to introduce here with 00:01:50.560 --> 00:01:59.900 season five next level. My guest here, Ryan Sidholm, lead pastor, church planter here with River City 00:01:59.900 --> 00:02:03.780 Church. And so Ryan, thanks for jumping on the podcast here. Yeah, thanks for having me. 00:02:04.060 --> 00:02:11.980 So Ryan's up in Vancouver, Washington, a church planter there with River City. So maybe before we get 00:02:11.980 --> 00:02:15.980 started here, we start to explain what's going on. Ryan, give us a 30 second update. Tell us about 00:02:15.980 --> 00:02:22.300 River City. Yeah, you know, we're excited about what the Lord is doing. We launched Easter Sunday, 00:02:22.420 --> 00:02:29.640 2019, which was 10 months before the pandemic. So I highly recommend that, by the way. If you want to 00:02:29.640 --> 00:02:35.760 start something new, do it right before a global pandemic. It'll really stretch you. But early on, 00:02:35.760 --> 00:02:43.280 early on, we started, you know, we had to think in unique ways because of this, you know, we all got 00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:51.520 thrust into COVID. And so by the grace of God, we're still here. Awesome. You know, so many planters in 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:58.000 that season, you were joking almost tongue in cheek a little bit about the opportunities and the 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:05.440 challenges of launching in the COVID season. But it's been so much joy in my life, seeing planters 00:03:05.440 --> 00:03:11.400 like you and so many others, even my own church, Reality Church down here in Miami, Florida, that was 00:03:11.400 --> 00:03:18.180 launching in that season. How, you know, innovation looks different and how, yes, the playbooks were 00:03:18.180 --> 00:03:24.300 destroyed and let's do something different. And many, many churches launched really strong in that space. 00:03:24.300 --> 00:03:29.360 And so it's interesting. Four years, you just celebrated your four-year birthday anniversary 00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:34.880 talking off air, and it's exciting to see churches like yours thrive. And to be honest, it's even 00:03:34.880 --> 00:03:40.400 exciting for me to have this conversation come out of a church that's just four years old. You see, 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:46.360 you see, Ryan came up to me. Was this, I don't remember the context. Where were we? Was it a Zoom call? 00:03:46.500 --> 00:03:50.340 Like, how did this, how'd this conversation start, right? Was just a random Zoom call? 00:03:50.760 --> 00:03:56.960 I shot you a message on Facebook. I said, hey, I got a big idea I need to talk to you about. So we got on a 00:03:56.960 --> 00:03:57.400 Zoom call. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:07.300 And Ryan pitched to me the idea of a metaverse mission trip, like a church taking people into virtual reality 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:13.600 for a mission trip. And I'm like, well, this is an interesting concept. So let's see what this guy has to say. 00:04:13.680 --> 00:04:20.000 So we jump on the Zoom call. And I mean, here's the premise, right? You're going to do, you're going on a 00:04:20.000 --> 00:04:25.180 mission trip. Your church is going on a mission trip to, I don't know, Bolivia. And so you're buying, 00:04:25.500 --> 00:04:30.100 you're making all these volunteers buy a plane ticket to Bolivia. You got to pay for the visa, 00:04:30.280 --> 00:04:36.020 get your passport in order because you're leaving America, assumed, to go to Bolivia. You are, 00:04:36.220 --> 00:04:40.660 you're having to pay for a hotel. You're having to pay for some sort of room and board in Bolivia. 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:45.720 You're having to pay for food in Bolivia. You may be taking family members. Other people may be 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:52.760 going with you. I mean, at minimum, you're probably spending $1,500 to $2,000 to go to Bolivia. Now to 00:04:52.760 --> 00:04:57.720 do physical, tangible ministry, you're walking the streets, you're talking with people, you're praying 00:04:57.720 --> 00:05:02.380 with people, you're working with churches and organizations in the space, serving them. 00:05:02.880 --> 00:05:09.720 Like a physical mission trip is hugely impactful. I've, my, listen, I met my wife on a physical 00:05:09.720 --> 00:05:15.280 mission trip down in Key West. And so like the opportunities, I'm not saying go on a mission 00:05:15.280 --> 00:05:20.120 trip to meet your spouse. That was, that was not the appropriate response, but mission trips are 00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:26.700 very powerful. And so when Ryan's posing the idea of what if, what if instead of a plane ticket, 00:05:26.700 --> 00:05:32.600 we buy a headset as volunteers, the volunteers buy the headsets. And, and then we start to not, 00:05:32.600 --> 00:05:37.480 spend our time in, in a different country, learning those cultures, but we go into the virtual reality 00:05:37.480 --> 00:05:44.000 and start to better understand the cultures that are in VR. And oh my gosh, like this is, 00:05:44.180 --> 00:05:49.200 this is an incredible idea, right? So Ryan, tell me, tell us here a little bit, where did this idea 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:55.940 come from? Yeah. So, um, I was literally just praying about how to, how to better reach people 00:05:55.940 --> 00:06:01.600 for the gospel. And, and I don't know how much credit I can take for this idea because it came to 00:06:01.600 --> 00:06:07.840 me in a dream, like a literal dream while I was sleeping. Uh, and I woke up and I was like, man, 00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:13.160 that's a crazy idea. Uh, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought there might be something 00:06:13.160 --> 00:06:19.440 there. Uh, and so, uh, I was, I was given permission by another ministry leader recently. He said, 00:06:19.520 --> 00:06:25.020 you know, if God impresses something on your heart, put, you know, like talk about it, like 00:06:25.020 --> 00:06:30.180 see if it's, there's something actually there. And so, uh, I prayed, I literally just prayed. I was 00:06:30.180 --> 00:06:36.700 like, God, who should I talk to about this crazy idea? Uh, and even though I didn't know Jeff 00:06:36.700 --> 00:06:43.300 personally, uh, it was Jeff's name that, that kind of came to mind and we, we had been connected. I had 00:06:43.300 --> 00:06:47.960 seen him speak at conferences and, you know, so it wasn't just like, I was like, who is Jeff Reed? 00:06:48.080 --> 00:06:55.880 You know, but, uh, but God, apparently God wants me to talk to some guy named Jeff, but no. So I 00:06:55.880 --> 00:07:01.840 reached out to him and, uh, that's the rest is, uh, I mean, it's, it's going to be history soon. Uh, 00:07:01.840 --> 00:07:08.560 we're, we're, we're rolling with it. So. Very cool. Yeah. So, uh, evidently I'll agree to any crazy 00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:15.700 idea. That's not true, but I do agree to a lot of crazy ideas right now post post COVID. And, uh, 00:07:15.700 --> 00:07:22.540 listen, the idea centered around the metaverse mission trip and empowering people to be on mission 00:07:22.540 --> 00:07:27.960 and virtual reality. Well, honestly, I've written two books in my lifetime, two books within the past 00:07:27.960 --> 00:07:35.020 year, one on doing virtual reality ministry and one on being a, a, uh, uh, missionary in that space. 00:07:35.280 --> 00:07:40.780 And so when, when Ryan's sharing with me the conversation and I'm in my mind, I'm reflecting 00:07:40.780 --> 00:07:45.760 back on, you know, blessed practices and virtual reality and, and, and, and engaging in these 00:07:45.760 --> 00:07:50.920 communities and recognizing the contextualizations of what's possible, man, I'm, I'm grinning in ear 00:07:50.920 --> 00:07:58.080 to ear, looking at the potential for Ryan's church here, river, um, man, I just blanked on a river 00:07:58.080 --> 00:08:04.880 city to get into, into that space. And what an incredible opportunity to, to expand horizons and 00:08:04.880 --> 00:08:10.340 start to discover something different. And so we're doing, and what was fascinating with this, 00:08:10.380 --> 00:08:16.400 like, I even want to tell the story before we get into it. Um, so I'm in, um, I'm, I'm with 00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:22.000 leadership network at this couple of weeks ago. I was at leadership network at this, uh, at this 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:26.260 leadership retreat. We're planning out the future and some things that are happening with, with LN 00:08:26.260 --> 00:08:32.240 and, and I'm in the middle of like backwater Georgia. Like there's this, there's water inlet, 00:08:32.480 --> 00:08:38.580 there's like alligators and dolphins swimming in the same space. Like I've never, never seen that 00:08:38.580 --> 00:08:43.740 before. Alligators and dolphins, like in the same water. And it's just as beautiful. And, and listen, 00:08:43.740 --> 00:08:48.120 I'm in the, I'm in this space in backwater Georgia at this, at this leadership retreat. 00:08:48.880 --> 00:08:55.380 And there is no cell signal like at all, not, not even like one bar of 4g it's, it's zero. 00:08:55.620 --> 00:09:02.060 And there's very little internet access. And so like, um, I'm completely withdrawn from society. 00:09:02.060 --> 00:09:06.120 It feels like, which was necessary. And it felt good by the way, I slept really well for a couple 00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:11.200 of nights, but coming off of that, um, you know, in the middle of walking around, I guess where I got 00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:18.780 that one flicker of, of cell signal, I get this text message from, from Ryan saying, Hey, relevant 00:09:18.780 --> 00:09:24.880 magazine just published an article about the, the, the, the mission trip. And it was funny. It's 00:09:24.880 --> 00:09:29.380 like, uh, you know, Ryan's like, I had no idea they were looking. And I was like, I didn't know they 00:09:29.380 --> 00:09:33.920 were looking either. And so somehow they found out about, did you, Ryan, did you ever get any insight 00:09:33.920 --> 00:09:38.400 to how we ended up getting on, are you, your church ended up getting on relevant magazine? 00:09:39.500 --> 00:09:46.100 No, literally my wife, my wife was just scrolling on her cell phone and she saw this thing and she 00:09:46.100 --> 00:09:50.580 thought it was another church doing a virtual reality mission trip, you know? And so she's like, 00:09:50.620 --> 00:09:54.640 what's this? And she clicks on it and she just walks around the corner. She goes, Ryan relevant 00:09:54.640 --> 00:10:01.700 magazine just did a story on us. So yeah, I don't know where that came from. Maybe somebody's got 00:10:01.700 --> 00:10:06.780 like the, the Google bots out there, artificial intelligence poked relevant magazine on the 00:10:06.780 --> 00:10:12.740 shoulder. Who knows? But, uh, it was, it was awesome just seeing, uh, seeing river city church 00:10:12.740 --> 00:10:18.520 getting some attention centered around, uh, the virtual reality, uh, mission trip. And so we'll put 00:10:18.520 --> 00:10:23.140 links to this in the show notes and, and things like this. You can check out the, the, uh, the, 00:10:23.180 --> 00:10:29.320 the article. Um, but here with this season was season five. I mean, we're talking about this idea of, 00:10:29.320 --> 00:10:36.200 of digital ministry or of metaverse ministry to the next level. And so we, you've got opportunities. 00:10:36.200 --> 00:10:40.700 I want to encourage you right now, listener out there, there there's two or three things that, 00:10:40.700 --> 00:10:44.760 that I want to encourage you to do. Number one, I would encourage you to consider being part 00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:50.280 of, of, of a, of a metaverse mission trip. We, with, uh, the church digital digital church network, 00:10:50.280 --> 00:10:59.620 um, it is our goal here in two, uh, 2023. Uh, we want to see 250 people go on mission in virtual 00:10:59.620 --> 00:11:07.320 reality this year. And, and so going through, um, Ryan, uh, with, with his church, river city church, 00:11:07.320 --> 00:11:13.440 uh, doing what they're doing. And that's an awesome opportunity for individuals to maybe jump 00:11:13.440 --> 00:11:19.340 on a mission trip. And Ryan, you were telling me off, off air, uh, France and, uh, where else, 00:11:19.380 --> 00:11:21.180 like where, where have you been getting some exposure? 00:11:22.920 --> 00:11:26.140 Kyrgyzstan. We have an individual in Kyrgyzstan coming with us. 00:11:26.460 --> 00:11:32.960 Yeah, that that's crazy. And he was, it was actually interviewed by a Canadian, Canadian press 00:11:32.960 --> 00:11:38.040 just recently. Right. So we may be getting some, Oh, Canada people, uh, in, in the mix as well, 00:11:38.040 --> 00:11:43.340 but definitely excited about seeing individuals jump on. And I mean, I want to thank Ryan for, 00:11:43.400 --> 00:11:51.880 for opening this up. Uh, but there's an opportunity here for, for churches beyond, um, this beyond 00:11:51.880 --> 00:11:58.500 Ryan's to, to get on board. And so through leadership network, uh, and through actually GACX, which is, 00:11:58.600 --> 00:12:03.920 I don't talk much about that, but that's campus crusades, global digital division. Uh, we, 00:12:04.060 --> 00:12:09.140 the church digital digital church network, we're actually leading two more learning communities 00:12:09.140 --> 00:12:14.420 centered around the metaverse mission trip. And so with leadership network, as most of you listening 00:12:14.420 --> 00:12:19.300 are probably us-based churches, this is a great opportunity to come alongside and start to get 00:12:19.300 --> 00:12:25.780 some exposure on what metaverse community is, go on a mission trip, start to discover what the 00:12:25.780 --> 00:12:32.180 missional opportunities in that space are. And, and maybe just maybe even launch a church as a result 00:12:32.180 --> 00:12:39.860 of it. In addition to taking 250 people on mission this year, we want to see, uh, 10 churches, uh, 00:12:39.860 --> 00:12:44.480 get planted, get launched in virtual reality as a result of it. And we're going to talk with 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:49.460 Stuart McPherson next week about what church planting looks like and how the mission trip fits into that. 00:12:49.460 --> 00:12:54.200 And, and it's a great, great conversation that we've got coming up with Stunami, uh, coming up in 00:12:54.200 --> 00:12:58.000 the next, in the next couple of weeks, but Hey, Ryan, let's, let's dig in. By the way, 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:05.680 if you're interested in the metaverse mission trip, uh, leadnet.org slash M L C leadnet.org 00:13:05.680 --> 00:13:13.200 slash M L C leadership network.org slash, or not leadnet.org slash M for metaverse L for learning, 00:13:13.300 --> 00:13:17.220 C for community Lincoln show notes. Ryan, if there, if somebody is interested in your, 00:13:17.220 --> 00:13:20.200 your trip, what's, what's a good link or information for that? 00:13:20.880 --> 00:13:28.560 Yeah. River city, Vancouver.com. Uh, so, uh, you'd probably see a header that just says missions 00:13:28.560 --> 00:13:32.680 or missions to the metaverse. Just click there and you'll have all the information you need, but 00:13:32.680 --> 00:13:35.360 river city, Vancouver.com. 00:13:36.020 --> 00:13:43.080 Very cool. Well, let's, let's drill into some, some details here a little bit. What exactly in your 00:13:43.080 --> 00:13:46.600 mind, and this is all hypothetical and we're onboarding this, we're doing this for the first 00:13:46.600 --> 00:13:52.600 time, Brian, but, uh, you tell me here, what is a, what is a mission trip to the metaverse? What, 00:13:52.660 --> 00:13:59.140 what does this look like? Yeah. Well, you know, we're, we want to frame it in the sense of like a, 00:13:59.380 --> 00:14:06.400 you know, a normal, if you will, mission trip. Uh, you never want to go to a, a mission field and 00:14:06.400 --> 00:14:13.080 just be tourists, right? That's, that's a no, no. And so we don't want to be the people, uh, that go 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:17.980 to, let's use your example of Bolivia again and just say, oh, Hey, let's just go to see all the 00:14:17.980 --> 00:14:23.300 sites and let's get, you know, our Bolivia stickers and souvenirs and let's go home. Uh, 00:14:23.300 --> 00:14:30.280 the idea is we're there to either share Jesus or to do some work on the ground. And so the same idea 00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:39.000 is we want to go into the metaverse for the purpose of sharing Jesus, not just to hang out and play games, 00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:45.940 but to share Jesus with individuals that we encounter in this metaverse space. So that's the 00:14:45.940 --> 00:14:52.060 idea behind it. Uh, and you know, in thinking through this, uh, and this is something, you know, 00:14:52.140 --> 00:14:56.280 Jeff and I even just off air, like we're working out some of these details too, because it's like, 00:14:56.340 --> 00:15:02.680 we're doing this for the very first time, but in a typical mission trip, you, you land on the ground 00:15:02.680 --> 00:15:08.960 and you're there 24 seven, uh, until your plane takes off again. And obviously that's not something 00:15:08.960 --> 00:15:14.920 that we really want to encourage people to do, uh, in the, in the metaverse. I don't know if it's 00:15:14.920 --> 00:15:20.980 healthy for someone to spend 24 seven there for, for, for a week. Uh, but so instead we're making this 00:15:20.980 --> 00:15:27.700 mission trip a month long and we're just saying, Hey, you know, can you fit in five to 10 hours 00:15:27.700 --> 00:15:35.440 per week after work after school, you know, just in the morning being intentional about sharing Jesus 00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.380 with people that you're able to connect with in this metaverse space. So that's kind of the, 00:15:40.380 --> 00:15:46.640 the nutshell, what it looks like. Yeah. So it's going to be the month of, of August is this window 00:15:46.640 --> 00:15:51.480 they're, they're opening up and, and really challenging the people on the metaverse mission 00:15:51.480 --> 00:15:56.420 trip to spend five to 10 hours a week in, in virtual reality. Uh, let me just go ahead and 00:15:56.420 --> 00:16:01.460 say it publicly spending 24 seven in, in virtual reality. It's probably not a good idea. You may 00:16:01.460 --> 00:16:08.060 have like some, some anxiety issues and separation from actual physical reality. And that's probably 00:16:08.060 --> 00:16:12.700 not a good idea according to some therapist somewhere or all the therapists somewhere. But, um, 00:16:13.020 --> 00:16:20.760 I do, I love the opportunity to, to engage in these communities. One of the things that we really, 00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:29.240 we 2023 church, what we don't understand is this technology literally exists for communication. 00:16:29.380 --> 00:16:37.660 It's designed to create the technology to connect people on opposite sides of the world and allow 00:16:37.660 --> 00:16:46.700 them to communicate together. I mean, VR chat is called VR chat for a reason because people want 00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:53.720 to go into virtual reality and chat. Yeah, sure. VR chat gets a little gross at times and, and, but 00:16:53.720 --> 00:17:00.260 hey, VR chat needs Jesus. And so there, there's an opportunity even to contextualize it and start to 00:17:00.260 --> 00:17:07.600 get people to go into the space and, and explore VR chat, explore rec room, explore Facebook horizons, 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:14.240 explore meta horizons, explore, uh, spatial, the new, uh, option that's out there. That's been growing 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:20.760 like crazy. Explore these spaces, explore gaming. And what does it look like to build relationships 00:17:20.760 --> 00:17:28.840 through gaming? Uh, and, and how can we connect with people, uh, through among us through, oh my gosh, 00:17:28.840 --> 00:17:34.860 I, I just, I just blanked on the, the Fortnite, uh, pop one, you know, start to connect with people in 00:17:34.860 --> 00:17:40.420 these, even in these games and build relationships. Yeah. Now can that relationship feed to discord? 00:17:40.620 --> 00:17:45.360 Can that feed to a text? Can that feed to something off the headset? Sure. That's, that's kind of the 00:17:45.360 --> 00:17:52.920 goal. It's, it's build relationships and then speak to blessing people. Begin with prayer, listen to them, 00:17:53.380 --> 00:18:00.280 explore, uh, explore shared experiences, uh, serve them and then share your Jesus story. Like this is 00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:05.160 the, the heart of sharing Jesus online. This is the heart of being a digital and, and metaverse 00:18:05.160 --> 00:18:11.740 missionary. And there's an opportunity to start to challenge churches like yours and to find volunteers 00:18:11.740 --> 00:18:19.120 to go on mission in the metaverse, not spending 1500 plus on a plane ticket internationally, 00:18:19.120 --> 00:18:23.800 but reach, you know, Stuart, Stu Nami talks about this a lot. He's, he's able to be a digital, 00:18:23.800 --> 00:18:30.120 a metaverse missionary internationally and never leave his couch. He's able to jump in that VR and 00:18:30.120 --> 00:18:36.820 start to connect with people globally and start to represent Jesus, uh, for a whole new generation 00:18:36.820 --> 00:18:43.740 of, of people that don't, don't know them. Um, and this is, this is so cool. So here, Ryan, I want to ask 00:18:43.740 --> 00:18:52.700 this. You have been around four years. Like that is, um, you're diving in the deep into the pool here, 00:18:52.700 --> 00:19:00.060 my friend. Uh, not a lot of four year churches. I want to have this conversation. Why are, why are we 00:19:00.060 --> 00:19:04.840 having like, you know, they're worried about service times. They're worried about the buildings. 00:19:04.840 --> 00:19:09.020 They're worried about, you know, I, I don't know, set up or tear down or the things that, 00:19:09.020 --> 00:19:14.840 you know, young churches like yours are getting into, but, but you're, you're really doing some 00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:20.260 abstract thought here. Not even in number one, abstract metaverse ministry is okay. Number two, 00:19:20.260 --> 00:19:24.060 let's involve ministry in that space. And three, let's promote it like crazy. Like there's, 00:19:24.700 --> 00:19:30.040 you're very complex here with, with what you're doing. Where did this come from? Like, 00:19:30.040 --> 00:19:34.120 how did you end up doing this? Was there, what's the secret? 00:19:34.840 --> 00:19:40.420 Well, I, you know, uh, the, the, the only secret I can think of is literally, it's just, 00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:45.640 you know, I feel called to, to make disciples of all nations and all generations. Right. And if 00:19:45.640 --> 00:19:50.620 we're going to reach this next generation, we've got to be thinking outside of the box. We can't be 00:19:50.620 --> 00:19:57.140 doing church as usual, if you will. And so, you know, the, you, you said it earlier, the playbook 00:19:57.140 --> 00:20:02.520 was thrown out. Uh, and so, you know, if I heard somebody say this, I don't remember, it might've 00:20:02.520 --> 00:20:08.640 been you, I have no idea, but, uh, somebody said, if, if the only thing that our churches do as a 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:14.540 result of COVID is go online, if that's it, then we failed, we've missed the mark. Like the, the, 00:20:14.540 --> 00:20:19.560 the whole pandemic changed everything. And so we've got to be innovative in the way that we reach 00:20:19.560 --> 00:20:24.980 people for Jesus. And so, so that's, you know, number one is just, you know, just trying to be 00:20:24.980 --> 00:20:30.760 innovative in the way that we do this. But, uh, another thing that I'm thinking about that I don't 00:20:30.760 --> 00:20:37.620 know if people realize this or not is, is a big goal of this trip a month. That's, that's habit 00:20:37.620 --> 00:20:44.180 forming. That's enough time to really make some habits. And so these people who live in, in, in, 00:20:44.180 --> 00:20:49.360 you know, in the real world, uh, who go to a brick and mortar church called river city church, 00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:55.400 my idea is I want at the end of the month for them to take their VR headsets off and say, 00:20:55.540 --> 00:21:01.840 wait a second, that thing that I just spent a month doing in virtual reality, I could do that in real 00:21:01.840 --> 00:21:09.660 life too. Like I can, I can engage people in my everyday world with the gospel and, and similar with, 00:21:09.660 --> 00:21:14.180 you know, you using similar tactics, the bless framework. 00:21:14.620 --> 00:21:20.300 Yeah. I, I, I love the idea of that early on with Ryan, it was, it was funny. I brought up the, 00:21:20.760 --> 00:21:24.980 I brought up the point. I was like, Hey, you know what? You're, you're trying to get everybody to buy 00:21:24.980 --> 00:21:30.360 these headsets and they're costing, you know, the cheapest ones right now are $400. And, you know, 00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:33.900 Apple will be like, hold my beer in a minute when they come out with theirs in a couple of months 00:21:33.900 --> 00:21:40.740 for two or 3000. Um, but the, and so like the price of this is high and, and, you know, and I, I really, 00:21:40.820 --> 00:21:46.600 I pitched to Ryan, man, you can like rent a headset for a month for a couple hundred dollars. Like it's, 00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:50.980 I think it's like 30 bucks a week, uh, from some of the vendors that I've been working with. So there's 00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:57.600 opportunities to really make this much more cheaper and much more accessible. And Ryan really pushed 00:21:57.600 --> 00:22:02.080 against the idea, which I totally respected. He's, he's like, I want to create the culture of people 00:22:02.080 --> 00:22:05.620 utilizing virtual reality. I don't want to give them an out at the end of the month because they 00:22:05.620 --> 00:22:12.400 got to ship back the headset. Uh, and so having that buy-in, having them own the gear, uh, to engage 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:17.700 in virtual reality, to engage in these, these communities and, and these, uh, these, and build 00:22:17.700 --> 00:22:23.380 these relationships. I mean, this is so good. Yeah. And you know, we're not there to get souvenirs, 00:22:23.380 --> 00:22:29.040 but a VR headset, it's a pretty sick souvenir from a mission trip. I mean, I, I literally, 00:22:29.040 --> 00:22:33.020 I keep mine here at my desk. I've, I've got it just right over there in, in, in a charger, 00:22:33.020 --> 00:22:40.680 ready to jump in at, at a moment's notice. And, uh, I, I am really excited at the idea of, 00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:45.560 of pioneering these ideas with, of the mission trips, uh, to the churches. You know, it's, 00:22:45.560 --> 00:22:52.460 it's funny. Like I'm just, as a guy that literally is, is, is championing, it's pioneering, 00:22:52.460 --> 00:22:58.160 trying to get churches to get behind the idea of a metaverse church. Um, I'm also recognizing 00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:04.020 that that's probably one of the more controversial statements I've ever said, getting church churches 00:23:04.020 --> 00:23:08.580 to open up in the metaverse. And that, you know, I'll talk with the digital pastor. I'll talk with 00:23:08.580 --> 00:23:13.220 the metaverse pastor. I'll talk with the volunteer and there's excitement around virtual reality. 00:23:13.660 --> 00:23:18.740 Uh, but somewhere up the stream, uh, the excitement stops. Maybe it's an executive pastor, 00:23:18.740 --> 00:23:23.400 maybe it's a lead pastor, maybe it's an elder board for whatever reason, you know, there's, 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:28.100 there's a lot of, um, there's a lot of pushback. It's interesting. Uh, I'm going to side note on 00:23:28.100 --> 00:23:33.820 this, uh, push pay actually came out, uh, with some stats centered around the state of their state of 00:23:33.820 --> 00:23:38.600 the church tech address. There's some, they did some research and they released it, uh, February 23, 00:23:38.600 --> 00:23:48.420 but they actually found that 25% of churches today in America are interested in, in launching a church 00:23:48.420 --> 00:23:54.480 in virtual reality. Uh, so even though you've got these tension, there's somebody that's interested. 00:23:55.080 --> 00:24:00.460 Um, you know, I believe there's somebody upstream in the orgs that, that are not comfortable with 00:24:00.460 --> 00:24:05.380 that. And I think that's really is the negativity that causes, you know, a lot of stalemating and 00:24:05.380 --> 00:24:10.500 it helps, it causes a lot of churches to get stuck. I believe this mission trip is the opportunity to 00:24:10.500 --> 00:24:16.440 move beyond that. Um, because it gives you an opportunity to cast vision to volunteers, for volunteers to buy 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:21.640 into it. You're able to get credible stories about what's happening in the space. Uh, you're able to 00:24:21.640 --> 00:24:26.400 explore what the metaverse is without feeling pressure of, oh my gosh, I've got to do a church. 00:24:26.460 --> 00:24:29.840 I got to do a church. No, you're, you're going on a mission trip. You're meeting person of pieces, 00:24:30.400 --> 00:24:35.080 pieces. You're meeting your person of peace. You're, you're exploring the culture that that's there. 00:24:35.080 --> 00:24:41.180 And, and, and as a result of it, it gives you permission, uh, to explore without coming in and 00:24:41.180 --> 00:24:46.820 saying, we're doing this. And, and it gives you an opportunity to tell better stories to your 00:24:46.820 --> 00:24:52.580 leadership, uh, to ground it with volunteers that are saying, we want to do this. That's going to give 00:24:52.580 --> 00:24:58.760 you a much better case for doing a church, uh, in virtual reality, as opposed to coming in blindly 00:24:58.760 --> 00:25:04.640 with it. So I love the idea of, you know, crock potting this, doing the mission trip, going slowly 00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:10.780 through the process and trying, instead of trying to force something through. Hey, Ryan, as a, as a 00:25:10.780 --> 00:25:16.420 four-year-old church, I'm curious, like, are you, are you interested in doing a church in virtual 00:25:16.420 --> 00:25:22.400 reality? Like what, what, what's, what is the takeaway from this trip? What are you hoping to walk 00:25:22.400 --> 00:25:28.240 away with? How is your church going to be better as a result of this? Yeah, absolutely. We're, we're 00:25:28.240 --> 00:25:34.440 100% interested in, in starting a virtual reality, either church or campus. I lean more towards 00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:41.540 church. Um, but, uh, you know, I mentioned the idea of, of walking away with our people more equipped 00:25:41.540 --> 00:25:48.060 to share Jesus. But, you know, early on when, when we were 10 months old, uh, yeah, 10 months old is 00:25:48.060 --> 00:25:55.880 when the pandemic hit. Uh, one of the very first things we did was we did a virtual internship, 00:25:55.880 --> 00:26:00.880 uh, because we were wanting to do a summer internship with our church plant kind of, you know, 00:26:00.920 --> 00:26:06.480 missionaries come spend the, you know, the summer with us and help us, you know, plant roots into the 00:26:06.480 --> 00:26:11.280 community. But with COVID happening, we had to shift pretty quickly. And I had the idea, why don't we 00:26:11.280 --> 00:26:17.180 just do a virtual internship? And I'd never heard of that idea before, but it was awesome. And we were 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:22.020 able to connect with people in different ways than we'd ever connected with people before, 00:26:22.020 --> 00:26:29.400 even though some of our interns, like one of our interns was in Texas and we're up here in Washington 00:26:29.400 --> 00:26:35.560 state. Uh, and so we were able to do that, but then also we were able to really connect on a real 00:26:35.560 --> 00:26:41.960 level with people who still to this day have not set foot into our brick and mortar building. 00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:46.960 And so, uh, and so, yeah, you know, I forgot the question, 00:26:47.020 --> 00:26:54.820 but, but, but there's, there's something about something maybe completely unrelated. 00:26:54.960 --> 00:27:01.980 Yeah. That's awesome. I'm gonna, I'm gonna build off of what he said. There's, um, there's a much 00:27:01.980 --> 00:27:08.160 larger percentage of atheists and agnostics, um, in this space. There, there's a much larger 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:16.340 percentage of, of, of mental health issues and addictive behaviors. Um, when we talk about virtual 00:27:16.340 --> 00:27:22.880 reality, uh, you are seeing a different type of person than who's coming to your church building. 00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:28.060 And that's, that's not to discredit your building. That's not to discredit virtual reality ministry. 00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:33.160 It's, it's bringing attention to the fact of if we are going to complete the great commission, 00:27:33.160 --> 00:27:38.220 we need to not only need our church buildings operating the way that they are, we need to 00:27:38.220 --> 00:27:44.320 start exploring and getting into spaces like virtual reality and starting to address this, 00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:50.240 this darkness and these, these spaces in these communities. Um, you know, we talk a lot in, 00:27:50.280 --> 00:27:55.480 in, uh, the, the book of VR in the Metaverse Church. I mean, I, I tell stories of, of, of women 00:27:55.480 --> 00:28:02.040 who have been raped in virtual reality. They tell the stories of how their avatar was raped in these 00:28:02.040 --> 00:28:08.400 worlds. Um, we tell stories of, of strip clubs that million dollar strip clubs that are operating 00:28:08.400 --> 00:28:14.580 in that space. Um, you know, selling rights to do things in, in dark back rooms that 00:28:14.580 --> 00:28:21.080 probably shouldn't be done. Um, and, and this is not the reason that we run from virtual reality 00:28:21.080 --> 00:28:28.060 church. This church is the reason that we run towards virtual reality, um, and, and, and get in 00:28:28.060 --> 00:28:34.820 these spaces. And it's so exciting to me to see guys like Ryan and women that are already doing 00:28:34.820 --> 00:28:40.580 ministry in that space as well, really championing and stepping forward and saying, we want to go in 00:28:40.580 --> 00:28:46.600 that space and we want to help others catch a vision, uh, for what can be. And so this is who we're 00:28:46.600 --> 00:28:52.340 looking for, for these, uh, metaverse learning communities that we're doing specifically through 00:28:52.340 --> 00:28:59.160 leadership network where we're looking for 25 churches to step up and say, Hey, we're going to 00:28:59.160 --> 00:29:05.240 explore the space. We, we want a guide to go on this journey with us and, and really help us start 00:29:05.240 --> 00:29:12.340 to explore what metaverse ministry, what a metaverse mission field and what a metaverse church can look 00:29:12.340 --> 00:29:17.820 like. And, and so thankfully we've got Stunami. Like I said, he'll be on the next podcast next week. 00:29:17.820 --> 00:29:24.440 Stuart McPherson is coming on with the metaverse mission field, uh, the learning community and is, 00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:31.940 and is diving in with us on helping churches, uh, explore, uh, helping churches do these mission 00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:38.640 trips, train your people specifically on what metaverse missions looks like, and then explore 00:29:38.640 --> 00:29:43.300 the idea of what a church can be. By the way, Stuart's, we'll get into it, but Stuart's actually 00:29:43.300 --> 00:29:48.760 creating a virtual reality church network where he's trying to gather together churches of all 00:29:48.760 --> 00:29:54.660 denominations and wants to see a massive movement of God in virtual reality space. And he's doing 00:29:54.660 --> 00:29:58.820 that through digital church networks. So some incredible things coming up, but it all centered 00:29:58.820 --> 00:30:05.400 around this mission field concept of, of, of what we're kicking off here. Hey Ryan, I'm curious. I, 00:30:05.460 --> 00:30:09.740 and I actually, I don't know the answer to this. Do you have an internal goal of how, of how many 00:30:09.740 --> 00:30:14.360 people you're hoping to get on, on your specific, uh, mission trip with river city? 00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:21.680 Yeah, I really don't. Uh, I, I re I really don't have a goal. I just, it was more of just a crazy 00:30:21.680 --> 00:30:27.960 idea. Uh, we have some other mission trips that are, you know, IRL mission trips coming up. And so, 00:30:27.960 --> 00:30:33.420 uh, we're wanting to, to, to, to beef those up as well. So, uh, but we're, we're not large by any 00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:38.460 means. And, and I want to just use this as an encouragement to say, you know, when I hear big, 00:30:38.580 --> 00:30:43.140 crazy ideas like this, I'm like, man, they must be a big church with a lot of money. Like we're not a 00:30:43.140 --> 00:30:47.920 big church at all. We're a four year old church plant that has spent the majority of our ministry 00:30:47.920 --> 00:30:55.000 in pandemic times, uh, you know? And so we're not a large ministry by any means. Um, and so I think it 00:30:55.000 --> 00:31:04.420 would be a huge win if we had a dozen people from our church doing this. And did that, that's awesome. 00:31:04.600 --> 00:31:09.000 And by the way, what that would give the church is, is a dozen, hopefully at the end of the mission 00:31:09.000 --> 00:31:13.420 trip, a dozen people that are bought into the ministry that understand what metaverse ministry 00:31:13.420 --> 00:31:18.720 is. And now you've got a dozen people potentially to build a, as a core team, to build a church around 00:31:18.720 --> 00:31:24.600 in virtual reality. By the way, you don't want to lose that same evangelistic aim when you launch 00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:29.840 the church. You need those people to continue to, to go out into the virtual reality worlds and, 00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:36.200 and bring into the church. Like there, there's a, there's a one, two relationship so often. And 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:41.100 Ryan can attest to this as a church planner. So often in church planting, even in physical space, 00:31:41.100 --> 00:31:49.400 we, we lose that, that evangelical aim, uh, and instead transition into service planning and things 00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:54.200 like that. Once the actual physical church launches and we don't, we don't want to lose 00:31:54.200 --> 00:31:59.020 that, that evangelism. We don't want to lose that missional aim of, of the church. We want to keep 00:31:59.020 --> 00:32:05.640 that, uh, bright and fresh, even once the physical services or the virtual reality services launch in 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:11.040 this context. And so, Hey, this has been a great conversation, Ryan. I do want to note that with 00:32:11.040 --> 00:32:15.920 the learning communities through, through leadership network, we're not only doing a metaverse learning 00:32:15.920 --> 00:32:22.980 community, we're doing a digital learning community as well. And so like, if you are a church that's saying, 00:32:24.200 --> 00:32:30.500 this is crazy, I would never do anything in virtual reality. It's 2023. I understand what 00:32:30.500 --> 00:32:35.720 you're saying. Wait till Apple comes out with their headsets, watch the world explode in virtual 00:32:35.720 --> 00:32:39.740 reality. And nobody's going to be able to spell AI anymore. Everybody's going to go back to VR. 00:32:40.400 --> 00:32:44.480 Maybe Apple's probably going to be too expensive, but augmented reality, mixed reality is really going 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:50.480 to be the thing anyway. So, but we're doing a digital learning community, uh, that's going to be 00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:54.400 going on a digital mission trip where we're going to be utilizing some of these same blessed 00:32:54.400 --> 00:33:00.460 practices. Uh, we're going to be training churches on how to create digital missionaries to lean into, 00:33:00.460 --> 00:33:04.920 uh, digital communities, not metaverse, not virtual reality communities, digital communities, 00:33:05.380 --> 00:33:11.400 communities like social media or Facebook groups or, or even video games starting to be more 00:33:11.400 --> 00:33:16.520 engaging in communities that exist in that space. Even things like, oh, I don't know, 00:33:16.520 --> 00:33:21.940 Nike plus, you know, engaging on their app and things like that. Any place where there's a community, 00:33:21.940 --> 00:33:27.400 I would suggest there's an opportunity definitely for relationships. And anytime there's a relationship, 00:33:27.400 --> 00:33:31.960 there's an opportunity for Christ. Um, and where Christ comes into play, there's a, there's a, 00:33:32.260 --> 00:33:37.440 there's a chance for a church. And so this is really the approach that we want to share with churches, 00:33:37.440 --> 00:33:43.680 uh, more of not creating a community that exists in digital space, especially in digital, 00:33:43.900 --> 00:33:49.340 but more of how do we engage better in communities that are already existing for Christ? 00:33:49.860 --> 00:33:54.480 What does it mean to really have a digital missionary empower the people in your church, 00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:59.080 uh, to be those digital missionaries? Somebody wrote a book on that. Um, I, I gotta, I gotta think about it. 00:33:59.180 --> 00:34:02.560 Um, sharing Jesus online.com. You can download it. Dr. John's a genius. 00:34:03.160 --> 00:34:08.800 And I just, you know, show up every once in a while, but definitely excited about what's coming up here 00:34:08.800 --> 00:34:15.800 in digital and metaverse spaces. So, so Ryan, your, your, your, your specific church was that, uh, 00:34:15.800 --> 00:34:21.020 the website, more information to get connected into your specific mission trip is, is where again? 00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:25.460 Rivercityvancouver.com. 00:34:25.880 --> 00:34:29.340 So we'll have rivercityvancouver.com. We'll have that in the show notes. 00:34:29.560 --> 00:34:34.000 And so if you're an individual interested in getting connected into a learning community, 00:34:34.000 --> 00:34:41.700 that one is a great place to go. Um, if you are an organization interested in, in hosting a metaverse 00:34:41.700 --> 00:34:47.160 mission trip, like what Ryan's doing, hit us up at the leadership network learning community. 00:34:47.160 --> 00:34:56.020 It's at leadnet.org, L E A D N E T.org slash M L C for the metaverse one, the virtual reality one. 00:34:56.480 --> 00:35:03.140 And if you're interested in the digital one, it's leadnet.org slash D L C for digital learning 00:35:03.140 --> 00:35:08.060 community. Hopefully you see how we did that. We're pretty trying to be smart there. So either one 00:35:08.060 --> 00:35:12.600 of those are open leadership networks, learning communities are going to be in the fall, September, 00:35:12.740 --> 00:35:18.140 November, December. So definitely time to sign up now and, and save your spot for how we're going to 00:35:18.140 --> 00:35:23.920 do this, uh, in the fall. So, Hey, um, man, this has been, this has been great, Ryan, uh, short and 00:35:23.920 --> 00:35:29.820 sweet and, uh, definitely excited. Thank you by the way to, uh, whoever decided at relevant magazine to 00:35:29.820 --> 00:35:35.760 write an article about this. Cause that kind of, that made my day, but at man, as, as we're, as we're 00:35:35.760 --> 00:35:40.340 landing the plane, any questions, go ahead. Yeah. Well, I want to share one more thing just that I 00:35:40.340 --> 00:35:46.560 think's kind of important. We talked about the idea of this mission trip transcending time zones. So 00:35:46.560 --> 00:35:51.520 how we have someone in France and Kyrgyzstan jumping in with us. But one of the things that I've seen in 00:35:51.520 --> 00:35:57.060 promoting this is it's really, it transcends physical abilities as well. And this is one of the 00:35:57.060 --> 00:36:01.940 things that kind of blew my mind when I was speaking to somebody who said, you know, my, my wife's been 00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:08.320 in a chair for, uh, for several years. So she's unable to go on a typical mission trip, but he was like, 00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:14.540 but she could go on this one. And, and that really got my brain, you know, just my, my wheels turning 00:36:14.540 --> 00:36:21.580 about, I know so many people who are unable to go on a, uh, you know, a quote unquote real, uh, mission 00:36:21.580 --> 00:36:28.020 trip because of, you know, immunocompromised or social anxiety or, or fill in the blank, you know, 00:36:28.100 --> 00:36:33.520 physical limitations. And so this is something that transcends that as well. So I'm really excited 00:36:33.520 --> 00:36:37.400 about seeing who, who is going to engage with us on this trip. 00:36:38.400 --> 00:36:45.360 Yeah. The, the implications and the opportunities to, to have people that aren't able to connect on 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:51.200 that physical mission trip to, to engage in the metaverse, you know, not only do I think that you 00:36:51.200 --> 00:36:56.100 can empower a different, you can reach a different person in that space, but I, I agree. I think you 00:36:56.100 --> 00:37:02.940 have to empower, uh, a different type of leader, a different type of volunteer to, to engage. And, 00:37:02.980 --> 00:37:09.960 and I know, I know plenty of people that aren't socially comfortable communicating in physical space 00:37:09.960 --> 00:37:16.540 that would do very well in, in a, in a metaverse environment or even a digital environment. And, 00:37:16.540 --> 00:37:25.260 and rather than trying to force people into, um, one context to be able to, to open up and create 00:37:25.260 --> 00:37:30.940 other contexts and other environments for people to, to speak into and share the gospel, man, this is a, 00:37:30.980 --> 00:37:36.580 this is a great opportunity, I think for churches like yours out there to really start to discover, 00:37:36.580 --> 00:37:44.360 um, how metaverse ministry, how virtual reality ministry, how leaning into digital communities, 00:37:44.360 --> 00:37:50.620 uh, are going to reach a different person and empower a different leader and still have that same 00:37:50.620 --> 00:37:56.800 opportunity to disciple at the level that your churches are, are expecting. So, hey, Ryan, man, 00:37:56.880 --> 00:38:01.820 thank you. Well, first off, thank you for dreaming weird dreams. Um, and, and listening when God said, 00:38:01.820 --> 00:38:06.500 go talk to that Jeff guy. Cause that, that's, it's, it's, it's encouraging to know he knows me up 00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:11.180 there and, and, and, and is still thinking good things about me. So hopefully, hopefully we see more 00:38:11.180 --> 00:38:14.120 ideas like this happen. And by the way, if your church has got crazy ideas, man, 00:38:14.160 --> 00:38:19.560 listen, like I said, I rarely ever say no these days and it's a lot of fun. You know, at this point, 00:38:19.560 --> 00:38:24.220 I actually, I rarely ever say no, it's, it's not, no, it's, Hey, have you met this guy? Because 00:38:24.220 --> 00:38:28.500 there's usually, if I can't do it, there's somebody else that, that can, and it's, it is so much fun 00:38:28.500 --> 00:38:33.740 pioneering and exploring new space for, for the kingdom. And so, but Hey, with this, we're going 00:38:33.740 --> 00:38:40.300 to land a plane, check out, uh, river city, Vancouver.com for, for Ryan's, uh, check out, 00:38:40.300 --> 00:38:45.240 uh, leading that.org, uh, MLC and DLC for what's coming up, the metaverse and digital learning 00:38:45.240 --> 00:38:52.100 communities and excited about pioneering this new idea of a digital and metaverse missions. So, 00:38:52.140 --> 00:38:57.760 Hey, uh, check out, I know Jeff got your, Jeff got your hopes up about mission trips. Don't expect 00:38:57.760 --> 00:39:04.740 to meet your partner on this virtual mission trip. If we could arrange some virtual reality marriages, 00:39:04.740 --> 00:39:12.440 there's, there's an interesting documentary. It was on, it was on HBO max. It was centered around, 00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:17.780 um, a married, a couple that got married in VR chat. Was that the Taco Bell one? 00:39:18.680 --> 00:39:23.740 No, there was a Taco Bell couple that got married in the Taco Bell metaverse recently. That was 00:39:23.740 --> 00:39:32.000 no kidding. That, that would be, it's 2023, man. It's getting weird. So, Hey, um, lean into this 00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:36.020 stuff and, uh, and, uh, try not to meet, well, yeah, let's see. You want to find your wife in 00:39:36.020 --> 00:39:41.840 virtual reality. But we're going to land the plane for, uh, for Ryan. This is Jeff at the church 00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:46.120 digital and digital church network. Thanks for jumping on the podcast here. Season five, 00:39:46.260 --> 00:39:49.500 continuing next week with tsunami. See y'all then talk to you later.