WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.200 The more narrow, the more narrow you can go, the easier it will be for people to say yes 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:07.400 to following you as a curator for something. 00:00:07.940 --> 00:00:09.800 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:10.740 --> 00:00:14.640 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:14.980 --> 00:00:18.400 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:20.680 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:21.140 --> 00:00:23.140 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:23.420 --> 00:00:26.020 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:26.020 --> 00:00:30.340 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:31.300 --> 00:00:36.400 Whether you're a big or small church, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours 00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:39.900 learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically. 00:00:40.300 --> 00:00:42.060 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:43.720 All right, everybody. 00:00:43.840 --> 00:00:48.000 Episode 281, 281 of the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:48.900 --> 00:00:49.540 Wait for it. 00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:51.440 Brought to you by Riverside. 00:00:51.440 --> 00:00:57.760 That's right, the Church Digital has a new partner, Riverside Software. 00:00:58.000 --> 00:00:59.040 We love these guys. 00:00:59.120 --> 00:01:00.580 We're going to talk more about this later. 00:01:01.080 --> 00:01:08.020 Doesn't actually start until February, but, you know, I just love talking about stuff before it's supposed to happen. 00:01:08.140 --> 00:01:11.000 Consider this the Church Digital leak. 00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:12.620 Check out Riverside. 00:01:12.700 --> 00:01:16.020 Go to thechurch.digital slash Riverside for more information on this. 00:01:16.120 --> 00:01:19.760 Believe me, we'll be talking about this soon enough. 00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:22.840 But, hey, episode 281 of the Church Digital Podcast. 00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:23.960 Jeff here, I think I said that. 00:01:24.340 --> 00:01:28.500 Founder of the Church Digital, and I am excited about this podcast. 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:35.000 I think I'm excited about podcasts 280 other times in my life, but here with episode 281. 00:01:35.560 --> 00:01:40.040 Man, I was really looking forward to this conversation, and I loved it. 00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:40.820 It's so much fun. 00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:49.920 Barbara Carnero, well, I got to tell you, in the grand scheme of things, Barbara has been more to this organization, to the Church Digital, over the past 18 months. 00:01:50.020 --> 00:01:59.460 Like, I cannot put into words how much support, how helpful, how detrimental is a good word, right? 00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:05.960 Instrumental is a bad word, instrumental is a good word, how instrumental Barbara has been to the Church Digital. 00:02:06.100 --> 00:02:07.840 They knew the Church Digital. 00:02:07.980 --> 00:02:14.400 This is probably, I don't know, I was trying to think about this, version 5 or version 6 of the Church Digital over its 5 or 6 year career. 00:02:14.900 --> 00:02:21.880 Constantly evolving and changing, and Barbara has been a key part in this new version for this new season. 00:02:22.420 --> 00:02:25.000 So who's Barbara, you keep asking me, because I keep saying her name. 00:02:25.080 --> 00:02:28.180 Barbara is CEO of Word Revolution. 00:02:28.340 --> 00:02:31.320 It's an agency that runs, it helps churches and other organizations. 00:02:31.320 --> 00:02:33.060 We're going to get into this. 00:02:33.460 --> 00:02:40.200 But as I was thinking about podcasts you need to bring in, Barbara came to mind, and I shot a quick message, a DM over to Barbara. 00:02:40.600 --> 00:02:41.900 Hey, let's get together and talk. 00:02:41.940 --> 00:02:42.760 What are we going to talk about? 00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:48.540 And this idea of communications, because she is so strong in communications, of course. 00:02:49.160 --> 00:02:51.180 She's also incredible on branding. 00:02:51.300 --> 00:02:54.360 She's helped the Church Digital with this new branding that's coming out. 00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:57.080 But really, her heart is strategy. 00:02:57.280 --> 00:02:59.300 And so what you're going to hear, and of course, I love strategy. 00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.200 She's a maverick, just like me. 00:03:01.260 --> 00:03:08.640 And what you're going to hear in this are two mavericks, are two visionaries, are two strategy people thinking, 00:03:09.240 --> 00:03:14.360 I want to make sure here, this isn't stuff that you should be doing. 00:03:14.520 --> 00:03:16.060 Like, this isn't radical thought. 00:03:16.340 --> 00:03:18.540 This is stuff that you should already be doing. 00:03:18.620 --> 00:03:19.840 This is not what's coming up. 00:03:19.920 --> 00:03:22.220 This is like stuff you should be doing today. 00:03:22.380 --> 00:03:26.620 But unfortunately, the majority of churches really don't understand this well. 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.140 So we're going to have a conversation here. 00:03:28.640 --> 00:03:35.940 You know, Barbara, from a strategy standpoint, we end up talking generational communications, the different generations that exist, 00:03:36.160 --> 00:03:44.120 and how you communicate to a millennial different than you do a Gen Z, then a Gen X, then a boomer, and everything in between. 00:03:44.320 --> 00:03:49.740 And so generational communication is very important for churches, especially in digital space. 00:03:49.980 --> 00:03:55.760 But even more than that, starting to get into personas and target audiences, and oh my gosh, I kept saying it in this podcast. 00:03:55.860 --> 00:03:56.760 We've got to bring you back, Barbara. 00:03:56.780 --> 00:03:57.740 We've got to bring you back, Barbara. 00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:05.340 Because just the more that we peel back the layers, the more that it's all, this is the beginning of many, many more conversations that we need to get into, 00:04:05.660 --> 00:04:12.640 especially as we look at our churches, not only operating from an ecclesiological standpoint, but from a communication standpoint. 00:04:12.640 --> 00:04:22.500 How are we utilizing these tools effectively for the kingdom while still respecting what the kingdom is calling us to be using these tools? 00:04:22.660 --> 00:04:31.360 And so it's going to be a fun conversation here with Barbara Carnero, CEO of Word Revolution, and myself, Jeff, founder of the Church Digital, 00:04:31.960 --> 00:04:38.020 in a conversation that I'm simply calling today, Generational Communication and Target Audience. 00:04:38.480 --> 00:04:39.760 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:04:41.880 --> 00:04:45.860 Well, hey, Barbara, to kick this off, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself? 00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:56.300 That's always a complex question because it's hard to figure out what is home for me, and we've traveled a lot as a family. 00:04:56.560 --> 00:05:00.380 So as of right now, I'm recording from Rock Hill, South Carolina. 00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:08.140 But as a family, we're migrating to Barcelona in the summer, so we'll be relocating soon. 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:10.140 So that's where home will be for a little while. 00:05:11.260 --> 00:05:17.480 I'm, you know, the things that I like to do where I spend most of my time is in communications. 00:05:17.480 --> 00:05:20.160 That is really my happy place for a lot of the stuff that I do. 00:05:20.800 --> 00:05:23.340 I have an agency that is called Word Revolution. 00:05:24.440 --> 00:05:27.620 Keeps me busy and entertained and excited at the same time. 00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:33.980 We have a team of 12 now, so we just came out from a team meeting, and I'm always full of energy after that. 00:05:33.980 --> 00:05:36.860 So you're getting me at this place of being super excited. 00:05:37.180 --> 00:05:38.540 So, yeah. 00:05:39.540 --> 00:05:40.240 Very cool. 00:05:40.340 --> 00:05:42.860 Well, I tell you, I'm jealous about the Barcelona piece. 00:05:43.060 --> 00:05:52.980 It's been, I've, like, been living, what's the word, vicariously, through your Facebook posts as you've been talking about your time over there and the move over there. 00:05:53.200 --> 00:06:00.180 Like, that's, I did a mission trip over to Barcelona when I, right when I came out of college, I maybe spent two or three weeks over there. 00:06:00.320 --> 00:06:08.540 And I just, I love the culture, the space, the place was Barcelona and a little bit into France as well. 00:06:08.580 --> 00:06:12.520 Because Barcelona, as I recall, is, like, right on the border, I think. 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:14.820 And, oh, my gosh, it was so cool. 00:06:14.820 --> 00:06:18.480 I almost died over there, but that's a completely different story. 00:06:18.960 --> 00:06:25.340 My class ring is somewhere in some river in Barcelona as part of the, I almost died and lost my class ring in the process. 00:06:26.000 --> 00:06:28.020 Fortunately, I survived the ordeal. 00:06:28.680 --> 00:06:31.040 But I'm not actually kidding there. 00:06:31.060 --> 00:06:32.080 But that's a story for another day. 00:06:32.200 --> 00:06:33.380 So let's move on. 00:06:34.060 --> 00:06:38.200 So, Barbara, your agency, I'm just curious, because I didn't realize, I knew you had an agency. 00:06:38.360 --> 00:06:39.700 I knew it was, like, 12. 00:06:39.900 --> 00:06:41.140 That's pretty extensive. 00:06:41.140 --> 00:06:44.060 What types of things with your agency do you help? 00:06:44.120 --> 00:06:45.540 Because I know you do a lot of work with churches. 00:06:45.740 --> 00:06:47.320 So tell me a little bit about that. 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:51.640 Yeah, so we definitely have this specific passion for churches. 00:06:51.860 --> 00:06:57.660 And so the processes that we have designed can really apply to any organization. 00:06:58.000 --> 00:07:02.180 But our pursuit of people to work with us, we generally pursue churches. 00:07:03.200 --> 00:07:10.460 Funny enough, we have, like, limo companies and pool builders and other, like, you know, other types of organizations that will ask us for help. 00:07:10.460 --> 00:07:14.620 And that was actually my background, because I started before I was a believer. 00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:17.260 So my agency is older than my faith is. 00:07:17.860 --> 00:07:21.900 So agency started almost 20 years ago. 00:07:21.900 --> 00:07:24.300 And I came to faith about 13 ago. 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:26.320 So 13 years ago. 00:07:26.400 --> 00:07:35.240 So it was interesting to see how, coming from the place of having the agency and working communications, I then had to understand what an Arthex was. 00:07:35.240 --> 00:07:40.860 So, you know, kind of getting into the world of what church is was a lot of novelty for me. 00:07:40.940 --> 00:07:43.240 So for me, the Christian side was the novelty. 00:07:43.960 --> 00:07:46.760 And I feel like sometimes for the people we serve is the opposite. 00:07:46.760 --> 00:07:52.940 They have the Christian side and they're trying to understand communications and how to make this thing work for the church. 00:07:53.060 --> 00:07:56.620 So, yeah, as an agency, we have people all over the world. 00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:04.980 Portugal, Venezuela, Brazil, and then us here in the U.S. 00:08:04.980 --> 00:08:06.600 And now we're relocating to Spain. 00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:10.120 So that team is responsible for a lot of things. 00:08:10.260 --> 00:08:14.800 But I tried to focus us greatly on strategy. 00:08:14.940 --> 00:08:15.880 That is my passion. 00:08:16.100 --> 00:08:19.660 So my goal is to be like, okay, let's not design anything yet. 00:08:19.740 --> 00:08:26.580 Let's figure out who this church is, why they exist, what drives them to even, you know, do what they do. 00:08:26.580 --> 00:08:28.400 And, you know, who are they serving? 00:08:28.500 --> 00:08:29.520 Who can they serve well? 00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:35.900 And these questions generally dictate then how we design, create copy, video, social media, and things like that. 00:08:35.980 --> 00:08:36.100 Yeah. 00:08:36.640 --> 00:08:36.820 So. 00:08:37.020 --> 00:08:37.300 Yes. 00:08:37.800 --> 00:08:45.760 And so Barbara's word revolution has been vital over the past year or so for the church digital. 00:08:46.600 --> 00:08:48.100 Some of you have seen the new logo. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:51.100 Like the website has not officially launched yet. 00:08:51.300 --> 00:08:54.520 Like I've been told, Bernie, the guy who's in charge now, is like, 00:08:54.520 --> 00:08:56.860 it's going to launch within, you know, the next couple of days. 00:08:56.980 --> 00:09:01.720 And so maybe swing over to the church digital and you can maybe actually see the refreshed website. 00:09:01.900 --> 00:09:07.900 But Barbara and her team as organizations were trying to figure out what the new voice was, 00:09:08.040 --> 00:09:12.500 what the brand was, what it needed to look like, who were we reaching, you know, 00:09:12.520 --> 00:09:14.740 helping us better figure out our personas. 00:09:14.740 --> 00:09:22.500 Like Barbara was so instrumental, really, in helping me get out what was in my head, get it on paper, 00:09:22.900 --> 00:09:28.400 start to get some of the rest of the team to own that, to understand that, to speak into that and evolve it. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:33.480 You know, and I'll just say kind of upfront, like I wasn't a big fan. 00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:34.860 And I said this in a previous podcast. 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:39.740 I was not a big fan of, hey, Jeff, your logo is old and dated and it needs to change. 00:09:39.820 --> 00:09:43.260 Like, like I'm actually very passionate about that logo. 00:09:44.100 --> 00:09:50.580 But but understanding, you know, and Barbara was one of the clear voices for this, that, hey, it's it's reaching a type of person. 00:09:50.820 --> 00:09:53.880 And you're saying you need to change to reach a different type of person. 00:09:53.880 --> 00:10:01.940 So you're going to have to you're going to have to sacrifice the logo in order to be more effective to for us to to move this to be to reach a younger audience. 00:10:02.160 --> 00:10:03.920 And and she was right. 00:10:04.320 --> 00:10:11.240 And so, you know, finding the people within your organization that are challenging you and leading to that. 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:17.700 Or maybe you're one of these voices that are speaking to leadership, challenging them and helping them try to understand that. 00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:22.560 Like having those people in your life is so important and it's so vital to that. 00:10:22.640 --> 00:10:27.720 And so upfront, before we actually get into the conversation, Barbara, thank you for for the work towards that. 00:10:28.600 --> 00:10:28.820 Yeah. 00:10:29.640 --> 00:10:30.040 Cool. 00:10:30.180 --> 00:10:37.360 And by the way, if anybody wants to email Bernie and harass Bernie for the website that was supposed to launch a long time ago and is yet to launch. 00:10:37.560 --> 00:10:42.460 You can go and do that at Romans, R-O-M-A-N-S at thechurchdigital.com. 00:10:42.620 --> 00:10:45.240 And so, hey, Bernie, I know you're listening to the podcast. 00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:45.740 You're welcome. 00:10:46.280 --> 00:10:48.940 But no, seriously, it's it's like literally it's a couple of days away. 00:10:48.940 --> 00:10:53.700 I was just adjusting some text right before the podcast myself and excited to see it coming. 00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.860 OK, so, hey, Barbara, let's and I just I could talk about Barcelona. 00:10:58.860 --> 00:11:03.720 I could talk about how you you you found Christ and you changed your business. 00:11:03.720 --> 00:11:05.460 Like I didn't know that aspect of you. 00:11:05.460 --> 00:11:10.380 And so, like, I almost want to come back to that maybe on a different podcast and start to explore that. 00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:18.040 I love that idea that you found Jesus and it was so impactful that it actually adjusted your career and your focus. 00:11:18.260 --> 00:11:21.120 Like that's a that's a very powerful statement. 00:11:22.120 --> 00:11:25.200 But let's let's get into this because I'm totally I'm not thinking that right now. 00:11:25.260 --> 00:11:27.020 And then I want to want to spend some time focusing on that. 00:11:28.160 --> 00:11:28.560 Really. 00:11:28.700 --> 00:11:35.560 And Barbara and I, we were together on Facebook Messenger because that's the platform that I use to communicate with Barbara on a regular basis. 00:11:35.560 --> 00:11:38.400 For whatever reason, that's the default application I go to. 00:11:39.200 --> 00:11:42.160 And within Facebook Messenger, we were talking about what to do in this podcast. 00:11:42.300 --> 00:11:54.300 And Barbara brought up this idea of of generations and about how if we really want to use our content, we want to want to reach different people. 00:11:54.500 --> 00:12:00.360 Then we have to realize that we have to communicate differently to the different generations that are out there. 00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:08.460 And as I was wrestling with that, you know, we as a church, I don't I don't know that we really understand that well in digital space. 00:12:08.460 --> 00:12:11.220 And so I was like, oh, let's have that conversation. 00:12:11.300 --> 00:12:12.000 Let's see where it goes. 00:12:12.080 --> 00:12:16.120 And so, Barbara, I probably butchered the concept right up here at the front. 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:23.940 Why don't you just share a little bit like the idea of generations and how we're communicating and connecting with people in digital space? 00:12:24.060 --> 00:12:25.280 Like to talk a little bit about that. 00:12:25.980 --> 00:12:28.560 And, you know, I'm very passionate about it. 00:12:28.760 --> 00:12:40.660 And I think it comes from in a way trying to understand my kids, trying to understand those in my life and trying to understand how the next generation after me is behaving or doing things differently. 00:12:40.660 --> 00:12:42.160 So it came out of curiosity. 00:12:42.400 --> 00:12:47.220 But at the same time, I couldn't ignore the fact that it was connecting to my job. 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:47.460 Right. 00:12:47.460 --> 00:12:56.280 So when you think of communications, you have to let's I mean, communications in itself requires a message, requires a sender and a recipient. 00:12:56.280 --> 00:12:59.420 And so I'm like, why are we ignoring the recipients? 00:12:59.420 --> 00:13:01.120 Like we need to figure out who they are. 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:09.660 And the generational studies that I've been doing for a solid 10 years, I think at this point, have shown me a few things. 00:13:09.660 --> 00:13:16.840 And so there are data to back up stereotypical groups that you can find in each generation. 00:13:17.400 --> 00:13:21.840 And I think that sometimes we're like, well, I don't fit that stereotype or I don't like stereotypes. 00:13:22.240 --> 00:13:35.080 But one thing is true is that the way your your sense of worth is formed, your worldview is formed, depends heavily on how the world was when you were a child. 00:13:35.280 --> 00:13:41.920 And so the world was different when I was a child compared to how my kids are now and how the world is right now. 00:13:41.920 --> 00:13:48.160 And their children, our worldview forms like it's completely formed to an extent. 00:13:48.160 --> 00:13:51.440 I'm believing that by the time our child is done. 00:13:51.580 --> 00:13:52.340 So think about it. 00:13:52.840 --> 00:13:57.340 My 12 year old, his way of perceiving the world is formed. 00:13:57.780 --> 00:13:58.700 He already has that. 00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:04.720 And that is going to educate his decision making process when he's 25, when he's 30, when he's 55. 00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:05.040 Right. 00:14:05.100 --> 00:14:10.200 So a lot of the things that we carry with us are simply a sense of what we bring back. 00:14:10.260 --> 00:14:11.160 Like it's nostalgia. 00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:12.400 You call it whatever you want. 00:14:12.480 --> 00:14:18.340 But we all go back to that place in childhood that has created for us what seems normal, what seems acceptable. 00:14:19.060 --> 00:14:20.980 And so you don't have to go too far. 00:14:21.100 --> 00:14:25.100 Like us Gen Xers find some things funny that millennials don't think it's funny. 00:14:25.740 --> 00:14:28.040 So you don't have to go too far. 00:14:28.920 --> 00:14:39.000 But anyway, when it comes to this idea of understanding generations, what I like to look at is even though we're still operating in the stereotypical box. 00:14:39.140 --> 00:14:44.060 OK, so what determines the sense of worth for a person? 00:14:44.520 --> 00:14:50.420 So I believe that the four generations that we have alive, well, we don't know much about Alpha just yet. 00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:56.920 And the generation before the baby boomers, they're dying or, you know, it's a generation that is ceasing to exist. 00:14:57.060 --> 00:15:03.340 So let's compare baby boomers, Gen Xers, millennials and Gen Z, just these four. 00:15:03.980 --> 00:15:13.320 And I would say that the way that they perceive their sense of worth, it gives us so much information of how we can engage with them. 00:15:13.320 --> 00:15:22.400 Now, I'm assuming that most of you, you probably don't want to be sitting with a 60 page report on generations. 00:15:22.980 --> 00:15:26.160 Like that's the kind of stuff you read and then you're like, OK, great. 00:15:26.280 --> 00:15:27.660 What do I do with this now? 00:15:27.720 --> 00:15:29.340 It's like it's just a lot of data. 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:31.180 Some of us may be OK with that. 00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:41.040 But most of us are probably not really interested in reading these, you know, very heavy text information about generations. 00:15:41.200 --> 00:15:43.260 OK, so I'm going to sum it up for you. 00:15:43.680 --> 00:15:49.020 This is what I found to be valuable is that when we think of the baby boomer generation, 00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.660 this is a generation that their sense of worth comes from the things they contribute towards. 00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:56.680 And so we call them the contributors. 00:15:57.320 --> 00:15:57.460 Yeah. 00:15:57.460 --> 00:16:03.980 And so if I can contribute towards something, I assign a sense of worth back to myself because of that. 00:16:04.420 --> 00:16:06.580 Remember, we're talking stereotypes here. 00:16:06.740 --> 00:16:11.780 So give that a little bit of a, you know, grain of salt for what I'm saying. 00:16:11.880 --> 00:16:13.260 And then you're going to go to Gen Xers. 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:15.760 Gen Xers are what we call the consumer generation. 00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:21.720 This doesn't have to be a negative, but in some cases it has played out as a negative. 00:16:21.940 --> 00:16:25.920 Look at how the church has created the consumer experience of a church, right? 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:36.760 So if you go and you observe and you receive and you're served and like that is because this is the first generation that is now able to consume more than the previous generation. 00:16:37.060 --> 00:16:39.400 They're the business owners, the entrepreneurs. 00:16:39.400 --> 00:16:45.960 And so they don't have the nine to five and kind of a prediction of what their salary will be for the rest of their lives, right? 00:16:46.240 --> 00:16:52.800 So this is a generation that now can actually consume more because they can make more and they can, you know what I'm saying? 00:16:52.940 --> 00:17:03.060 So this generation alone, their sense of worth comes from the things they can consume because that seems for them that I've achieved something. 00:17:03.160 --> 00:17:10.940 I was able to, you know, become somebody, um, the whole, like, look at what the Joneses are doing came from that generation, right? 00:17:11.760 --> 00:17:16.580 Then you have the millennials millennials assigned worth, uh, based on collaboration. 00:17:16.580 --> 00:17:17.920 So we call them collaborators. 00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:28.420 Uh, that is a generation that really enjoys this idea of people collaborating with people, uh, a global view of how things can be done. 00:17:28.420 --> 00:17:35.000 And so that's what for them becomes, um, um, again, an important aspect of how they see the world. 00:17:35.120 --> 00:17:38.920 And then you get their Gen Zs and they're what we call the curators. 00:17:39.080 --> 00:17:39.480 Okay. 00:17:39.500 --> 00:17:45.300 So for them to be the person at school that says, Hey, here's the game that I found. 00:17:45.420 --> 00:17:47.480 Here's the playlist that I'm listening to. 00:17:47.580 --> 00:17:50.060 They become the curators for others. 00:17:50.060 --> 00:17:56.140 And there's a lot more that I can talk about curation, but this is kind of like the summary of these four generations. 00:17:56.140 --> 00:18:02.320 If you don't remember anything else, contributors, consumers, collaborators, and curators. 00:18:03.100 --> 00:18:05.920 Uh, and that should be a good guideline for what you're trying to do. 00:18:06.180 --> 00:18:06.380 Very good. 00:18:06.420 --> 00:18:07.460 Look at that four C's. 00:18:07.560 --> 00:18:14.440 They all line up so well, uh, contributors, consumers, uh, collaborators, and, and curators. 00:18:15.340 --> 00:18:15.780 Yeah. 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:17.560 So, uh, it's, it's interesting. 00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.880 The boomers being the consumers. 00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:20.360 I hadn't, um, I hadn't. 00:18:20.360 --> 00:18:23.540 The boomers are the collaborators, the, the, the contributors. 00:18:24.100 --> 00:18:24.500 Contributors. 00:18:24.500 --> 00:18:27.040 And then, so who was the, uh, who's the consumers? 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:28.080 It's us, Jeff. 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:29.280 It's the Gen Xers. 00:18:29.540 --> 00:18:30.380 Oh, Gen Xers. 00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:30.960 No, I'm sorry. 00:18:31.140 --> 00:18:31.320 Yeah. 00:18:31.340 --> 00:18:32.300 We are the consumers. 00:18:32.740 --> 00:18:33.220 We're the ones. 00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:33.940 I don't know that I should. 00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:37.680 I don't know that I want to take credit for that. 00:18:37.820 --> 00:18:39.060 I was, I was about to put that together. 00:18:40.520 --> 00:18:41.660 That's, that's, that's interesting. 00:18:41.820 --> 00:18:41.960 Yeah. 00:18:42.020 --> 00:18:44.760 By the way, do you, do you have, cause I mean, there was, there's a, there's a lot there. 00:18:44.760 --> 00:18:49.160 Do you have like, um, a book, an ebook, something where this is, this is written, maybe not a 00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.320 60 page report or something, a blog that this is processed on? 00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:53.540 Uh, in a way. 00:18:53.620 --> 00:18:57.700 So I do have the 60 page one, uh, that I actually use as a reference often. 00:18:57.700 --> 00:19:01.180 And it's something that I compile and, you know, uh, over the years. 00:19:01.180 --> 00:19:05.560 Uh, but I think what, what would be the most helpful tool is to actually simplify. 00:19:05.560 --> 00:19:10.520 And so this is one way to simplify what I had, I had just told you is to figure like, what 00:19:10.520 --> 00:19:11.020 is the category? 00:19:11.100 --> 00:19:12.300 What makes me sense? 00:19:12.660 --> 00:19:14.540 Have this sense of worth in my life? 00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.620 Uh, but then there are communication, um, details that I can obviously add to each one 00:19:19.620 --> 00:19:20.000 of them. 00:19:20.080 --> 00:19:23.060 So how, what is the best way to communicate with them? 00:19:23.420 --> 00:19:25.020 Uh, how do they deal with money? 00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:26.840 How do they give and why they give? 00:19:27.040 --> 00:19:27.180 Yeah. 00:19:27.180 --> 00:19:31.860 So there are a lot of little details that would apply to each generation that is very different. 00:19:31.860 --> 00:19:35.540 Now you can go away from the generations and think more globally. 00:19:35.560 --> 00:19:37.820 It's like, well, we want to be multi-generational. 00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:38.680 We want to be this. 00:19:38.840 --> 00:19:41.380 And I think that applies to a certain extent. 00:19:41.820 --> 00:19:47.640 Um, but as soon as you start getting into like the visuals, the copy, uh, that's when 00:19:47.640 --> 00:19:53.120 you're going to see that, you know, the way I speak to a Gen X that is focused on results 00:19:53.120 --> 00:19:57.180 is different than a Gen Z that is focused on curation. 00:19:57.560 --> 00:20:03.040 And so, um, yeah, so that's, that's a different, I mean, here in the house, we have two Gen 00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:05.400 Zs and let me tell you, we're all very results. 00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:10.960 So, um, well, I mean, just, just for giggles, let's, uh, let's pull the thread here. 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:14.800 So, um, I mean, you said giving, I mean, why not let's use that? 00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:17.800 Everybody, everybody in 2024 is concerned about giving. 00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:22.380 Um, and so the idea of, okay, we're really giving, but we're really speaking to four different 00:20:22.380 --> 00:20:24.660 personas that are driven by four different motives. 00:20:24.780 --> 00:20:31.320 Uh, the, the boomers, Gen X, millennials in Gen Z, just as giving us an example, how would 00:20:31.320 --> 00:20:40.300 we massage that idea, uh, for the four different, um, personas that we're, we're wanting to connect 00:20:40.300 --> 00:20:40.560 with? 00:20:40.900 --> 00:20:46.380 And again, uh, the, the same disclaimer applies here that this is the, the stereotypical behavior, 00:20:46.380 --> 00:20:49.500 and no, not everybody will fit in it a hundred percent. 00:20:49.500 --> 00:20:53.340 But when you think of the baby boomers, uh, they want the brick with their name on it. 00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:58.820 So it's like I've donated and there's some sort of a recognition for that donation. 00:20:59.060 --> 00:21:03.440 It doesn't have to be visible in a sense that it has to be public, but it has, there's a 00:21:03.440 --> 00:21:08.920 certain level of recognition of that donation, either a meeting with the pastor, or there's 00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:09.620 a, you know what I mean? 00:21:09.640 --> 00:21:11.640 A letter that came in the mail. 00:21:11.640 --> 00:21:16.560 Like there's a level of recognition that happens that says, we recognize you as a contributor. 00:21:17.160 --> 00:21:21.020 Uh, you go to Gen Xers and I want to know that my a hundred dollars will get me five 00:21:21.020 --> 00:21:23.120 bricks on that house in Guatemala. 00:21:23.960 --> 00:21:24.360 Right. 00:21:24.520 --> 00:21:26.540 So it's, it's the result driven approach. 00:21:26.540 --> 00:21:30.800 Like we, we, we, we, we are the generation that likes to, to top it off. 00:21:30.800 --> 00:21:33.260 Like how many, how much do you need to close this thing? 00:21:34.040 --> 00:21:35.160 Are you 5,000 short? 00:21:35.560 --> 00:21:36.600 I'll get the 5,000. 00:21:36.600 --> 00:21:36.860 Right. 00:21:36.880 --> 00:21:39.260 So we are very results driven in that sense. 00:21:39.380 --> 00:21:44.100 And so if you make it too abstract, we're not going to respond to it. 00:21:44.100 --> 00:21:46.360 If you just say, Hey, we're trying to fundraise 50,000. 00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:47.700 That's just very, very abstract. 00:21:47.860 --> 00:21:50.640 There's no connection to a gives me B. 00:21:51.160 --> 00:21:53.840 And so I need to tie it to a specific result. 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:58.000 Say, Hey, listen, for every thousand dollars we get, we're going to be able to fund this 00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:58.660 one thing. 00:21:59.340 --> 00:22:03.400 Um, and so I know that I'm funding a goat, you know what I mean? 00:22:03.400 --> 00:22:07.780 Like for whatever reason, us Gen Xers really want to know what, which goat we're funding 00:22:07.780 --> 00:22:13.400 in Africa instead of, you know, uh, and it's, it, I mean, I'm obviously exaggerating on the 00:22:13.400 --> 00:22:18.580 comical side of, of the conversation here, but, um, in many ways we operate from that place 00:22:18.580 --> 00:22:23.920 of my X dollars will be the equivalent to this result. 00:22:24.340 --> 00:22:28.940 Um, with, with millennials, they're the ones that will, will get all, all of their friends 00:22:28.940 --> 00:22:30.320 like, Hey, let's do this together. 00:22:30.560 --> 00:22:35.780 You know, I've donated to this because this cause, there's a greater sense of purpose that 00:22:35.780 --> 00:22:37.540 comes associated with the donation. 00:22:37.540 --> 00:22:41.440 So for them is about what kind of impact this will have in the world. 00:22:41.720 --> 00:22:46.620 Uh, and because I can see that impact, I will actually talk about it with my friends and 00:22:46.620 --> 00:22:51.780 say, Hey, there's this organization that really could use our help to end blank. 00:22:52.300 --> 00:22:55.160 Um, and so it's a different, you know, approach. 00:22:55.240 --> 00:23:00.420 That's why if you go back a few years, um, the compassion international approach of having, 00:23:00.540 --> 00:23:09.620 Hey, here's the actual face of the kid you're sponsoring fits the, the, um, um, Gen X understanding 00:23:09.620 --> 00:23:10.260 of results. 00:23:10.260 --> 00:23:11.780 That's why it worked so well. 00:23:12.360 --> 00:23:16.160 Uh, when you come to the Gen Z generation, obviously you have to remember they're kind of 00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:16.980 young still. 00:23:17.520 --> 00:23:23.220 Um, but, uh, I, I, and this is more of an assumption than an actual proven, uh, type 00:23:23.220 --> 00:23:27.960 of data, but I believe these are the guys that will utilize technology to spread the words 00:23:27.960 --> 00:23:32.880 so wide that many little dollars will have account for much. 00:23:33.420 --> 00:23:33.900 Yeah. 00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:37.660 I think this is a generation that will basically expose a need. 00:23:37.760 --> 00:23:40.500 Again, they will be curating that need for somebody. 00:23:40.740 --> 00:23:45.580 Others will see the need and they will kind of like all gather into donating towards something. 00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:50.620 Um, they're very young still, so they're just hitting the marketplace in their 20, like early 00:23:50.620 --> 00:23:51.800 twenties at this stage. 00:23:52.260 --> 00:23:56.920 Um, and so, you know, we have to wait a little bit more until they mature in the marketplace 00:23:56.920 --> 00:24:00.320 to have a better idea, but I believe that's what would happen. 00:24:00.440 --> 00:24:05.560 Like I would rather create a Tik TOK that will get a bunch of people to donate and that's 00:24:05.560 --> 00:24:06.300 my contribution. 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.740 So. 00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.760 Yeah. 00:24:08.860 --> 00:24:11.700 No offense to the, the idea that Gen Z needs to mature. 00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:14.780 I tell you, you can send all hate mail, uh, on that. 00:24:14.880 --> 00:24:18.520 Go ahead and send that to Romans, R O M A N S at the church.digital. 00:24:18.600 --> 00:24:20.920 That'll be, that'll be great as, as well. 00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.860 Um, okay. 00:24:21.880 --> 00:24:23.740 So, Hey, let's, let's, let's, let's use compassion. 00:24:23.740 --> 00:24:28.140 Cause I want to maybe show some of the, of the, the, the strain that's here. 00:24:28.580 --> 00:24:33.880 Um, so compassion built an idea on how to connect with people. 00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:39.380 Uh, and at the time, uh, and at the time, your point really putting the kid's face on the 00:24:39.380 --> 00:24:44.880 paper, I'm giving 50 bucks a month to this kid to, so that he does what he's doing. 00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:49.780 I can't, you know, break little Diego's heart and no longer pay for this. 00:24:49.780 --> 00:24:52.760 So like, that's my motivation to pay whatever it is. 00:24:53.260 --> 00:24:56.860 Um, that idea works in for, for Gen X. 00:24:57.420 --> 00:25:01.740 Uh, but you're suggesting that doesn't really work at, at the other extreme down, down at, 00:25:01.740 --> 00:25:02.620 at Gen Z. 00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.340 Uh, no, I know where it may not work as well. 00:25:06.400 --> 00:25:07.340 It may not be as effective. 00:25:07.340 --> 00:25:12.460 And so like compassion, they've got whole innovation departments and, and I know some of the people 00:25:12.460 --> 00:25:12.940 over there. 00:25:12.940 --> 00:25:15.400 And so the compassion is doing great. 00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:21.740 This is not about them, but as an example, uh, ideologically, like how do we, do we change 00:25:21.740 --> 00:25:23.820 our processes to, to better reach? 00:25:23.820 --> 00:25:26.900 Like, do we, do we do more communications? 00:25:26.900 --> 00:25:28.840 Do we create a different thing? 00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:34.380 Like how do we, as, as the church, maybe, how do we adapt some of the stuff that we're 00:25:34.380 --> 00:25:38.540 doing to, to better connect with some of these, uh, different extreme groups? 00:25:38.980 --> 00:25:43.120 So, you know, when you come to Gen Z's, the biggest, uh, communication channel for them 00:25:43.120 --> 00:25:43.900 is short video. 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:47.280 So they're, they're, this is saying a couple of things to us. 00:25:47.520 --> 00:25:51.020 Uh, they're not going to sit for a presentation where you tell them about what's happening 00:25:51.020 --> 00:25:53.440 somewhere that needs your help. 00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:58.820 Uh, and so it has more to do with how can I, um, create these seeds. 00:25:58.840 --> 00:26:03.800 Of information that are, that they're exposed to consistently that will basically say to 00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:08.280 them, Hey, I'm willing to support this in certain ways. 00:26:08.280 --> 00:26:12.960 Um, I'm going to bring in a different concept here that I think is what society is go, where 00:26:12.960 --> 00:26:17.600 we are going as a society and in general, because they will help us, it will help educate what 00:26:17.600 --> 00:26:19.560 I think Gen Z's are doing. 00:26:19.560 --> 00:26:25.380 So, um, when you think of the information age that we experienced a few years ago, uh, all 00:26:25.380 --> 00:26:26.780 we had was information, right? 00:26:26.780 --> 00:26:35.140 So now, uh, the currency that we as a society were, um, kind of spending the currency is time. 00:26:35.140 --> 00:26:40.440 You basically say, I'm going to spend this much time reading, finding information, right? 00:26:40.440 --> 00:26:43.680 So you go to the internet and now you have access to all of this thing. 00:26:44.020 --> 00:26:47.160 So the currency at that point is your time. 00:26:47.240 --> 00:26:48.300 You're just spending your time. 00:26:48.300 --> 00:26:50.920 Then you move on to what we call the engagement age, right? 00:26:51.600 --> 00:26:56.360 Some people are talking about this already or still, uh, go down social media. 00:26:56.360 --> 00:26:57.660 This is the engagement age. 00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:03.120 And now the difference is you post, I post you like, I like you share, I share, uh, there's 00:27:03.120 --> 00:27:04.620 a lot of this back and forth. 00:27:04.620 --> 00:27:06.600 It's not just me consuming information. 00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:09.760 Now we're engaging, uh, and the currency now is attention. 00:27:10.200 --> 00:27:13.460 So you've heard marketers say this, like you got to catch their attention. 00:27:13.460 --> 00:27:14.800 You got to capture their attention. 00:27:15.080 --> 00:27:16.280 Attention is the currency. 00:27:16.600 --> 00:27:21.440 I think the phenomenon that it's already happening, whether we want it or not, is that we're already 00:27:21.440 --> 00:27:26.620 moving from attention from, um, engagement to the next stage, which is curation. 00:27:27.220 --> 00:27:28.800 Uh, why do we need curation? 00:27:28.800 --> 00:27:30.020 Because our brains are exhausted. 00:27:30.220 --> 00:27:30.660 Yeah. 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.260 So all of our brains are exhausted. 00:27:32.260 --> 00:27:34.460 We can't deal with everything that is coming our way. 00:27:34.460 --> 00:27:36.840 And Gen Z has no option. 00:27:36.980 --> 00:27:41.140 They do not know the world without this because that's how their world was formed. 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:48.100 So for them, the reality is I grew up and I was born and I existed where there's already 00:27:48.100 --> 00:27:49.420 a lot coming my way. 00:27:50.240 --> 00:27:51.780 This explains a few things. 00:27:52.200 --> 00:27:57.940 Our brains are tired and our brains are constantly being asked to assess what comes our way. 00:27:58.060 --> 00:28:01.320 So our brains are always doing this, like, what is it? 00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.400 Who is it for? 00:28:02.760 --> 00:28:03.360 What do I get? 00:28:03.360 --> 00:28:08.180 So every time I'm exposed to anything in the internet, any video, any social media posts, 00:28:08.260 --> 00:28:10.140 my brain is always like, what is it? 00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:10.820 Who's it for? 00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:11.420 What do I get? 00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.420 Now imagine scrolling through your feed and your brain's like, you know, going through 00:28:15.420 --> 00:28:17.460 this sequence of questions all the time. 00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:18.140 Yeah. 00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:20.140 I mean, at some point in time, you're just going to explode. 00:28:21.500 --> 00:28:22.420 That's what it is. 00:28:22.620 --> 00:28:23.460 So what do we do? 00:28:23.540 --> 00:28:26.380 We say, I need a place to rest and my brain needs to rest. 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:27.220 So I'm going to go. 00:28:27.340 --> 00:28:31.780 So basically what we're all doing, all of us is we're pursuing curators. 00:28:31.780 --> 00:28:36.920 We're pursuing somebody that curates the information for me because I can no longer consume everything. 00:28:38.060 --> 00:28:41.120 That's why you see so much of the diversion in politics. 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:45.280 So I'm following a curator that is going to take me this way. 00:28:45.280 --> 00:28:47.600 And you're going to follow a curator is going to take you that way. 00:28:47.680 --> 00:28:49.800 Our paths will never cross. 00:28:50.800 --> 00:29:03.400 As far as the information we consume, the people we see, the things we learn, the books we read, the Netflix shows we watch, like our paths will never cross because we're both following someone's path of curation. 00:29:03.400 --> 00:29:04.860 Now, I'm getting super nerdy now. 00:29:05.060 --> 00:29:06.520 So you tell me if I need to stop. 00:29:07.160 --> 00:29:13.660 No, I'm actually I want I want to build on this if I can, because you just connected the dots for me on something. 00:29:13.840 --> 00:29:14.480 Literally, I'm sitting here. 00:29:14.540 --> 00:29:22.580 I'm like, oh, my gosh, she just she just said what I believe that I didn't put it together with with with Gen Z and the curation aspect. 00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.120 But like I have always been a proponent of me doing ministry. 00:29:27.620 --> 00:29:39.220 It's much more effective for somebody else to be saying what I want to say than for me to say it like as as a pastor, I actually have the least amount of value today in 2024 than I've ever had in my life. 00:29:39.480 --> 00:29:43.020 Like and it's more about empowering others and helping others and do that. 00:29:43.320 --> 00:29:47.360 But that that I mean, that's for me, that's more about discipleship and multiplication. 00:29:47.840 --> 00:29:56.200 But curation in many ways is part of that, because now you get other people that have that attention, that have that focus, that are that are curating for that. 00:29:56.340 --> 00:29:56.980 That's beautiful. 00:29:57.340 --> 00:30:05.040 So let me tell you something really interesting, because when we move from information to engagement, we moved from time to attention. 00:30:05.520 --> 00:30:08.160 And now we're moving from attention to trust. 00:30:08.760 --> 00:30:10.680 And so the currency now is trust. 00:30:10.860 --> 00:30:13.300 I'm following the path of those I trust. 00:30:13.300 --> 00:30:26.080 And so my kid is following the people that he trusts online for gaming information, for whatever products they want to wear or use or buy or consume. 00:30:26.240 --> 00:30:31.260 And so he's following this particular path of curation that is being set in front of him. 00:30:31.700 --> 00:30:39.320 And he doesn't know anything else exists because he doesn't have the ability, the capacity or the time to really engage with everything else out there. 00:30:39.380 --> 00:30:44.160 And so he's basically saying, I can't ever research everything out there. 00:30:44.560 --> 00:30:48.900 How many times do you ask your people, what Netflix shows are you watching these days? 00:30:48.900 --> 00:30:52.320 Because how many hours have you spent just scrolling trying to figure out what to watch next? 00:30:52.320 --> 00:30:56.100 So we're asking people to curate stuff for us all the time. 00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:57.200 We just don't realize that. 00:30:57.420 --> 00:30:58.260 You open your phone. 00:30:58.500 --> 00:31:07.000 If you have an iPhone and you just pull down, you're going to see the four apps that your phone thinks you're supposed to use at this moment. 00:31:07.180 --> 00:31:11.880 And let me tell you what, if I pull it at 9 a.m. in the morning, it will show me my bank account. 00:31:12.800 --> 00:31:16.520 Because that's generally what I do first, you know, at the beginning of the day, get my work going. 00:31:16.600 --> 00:31:19.020 I check the bank account, pay any bills, do that kind of stuff. 00:31:19.140 --> 00:31:23.140 So as soon as I pull down at 9 a.m. and knows she's going to go to her bank account. 00:31:23.700 --> 00:31:29.480 But if it's 3 p.m., I can guarantee he's going to show me Starbucks because that's what my kids ask when I pick them up from school. 00:31:30.000 --> 00:31:32.940 And so my phone is curating my experience. 00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:34.800 This is not just personalization. 00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:39.200 I want to make the difference there because this is not just personalizing to your needs. 00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:41.680 It's basically curating the path for you. 00:31:41.800 --> 00:31:46.480 Like if I pull down, immediately my mouth starts worrying, thinking about Starbucks. 00:31:47.540 --> 00:31:53.360 Yeah, so there's a process of curation that basically feels like we're being guided somewhere. 00:31:53.900 --> 00:32:00.740 And you add to that another thing, which is when you go through a path of curation, what you're doing is you're entering a circle of trust. 00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:08.800 And so when I say I'm going to follow Jeff Reed, I'm going to follow a path that you're creating for me, but I'm going to enter your circle of trust. 00:32:08.800 --> 00:32:20.660 So if now I have, let's say, you know, Andy in your circle, I'm going to naturally trust Andy simply because he's in the same circle of curation that I am and that you are. 00:32:22.220 --> 00:32:32.040 Interesting fact, how cool it is that we're going back to something so deep as trust as being the currency that we spend with each other. 00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:39.000 How amazing it is that I think God is doing this shift, bringing us back to a place where we trust one another. 00:32:39.680 --> 00:32:45.800 And how impressive that the generation that we now have is the most spiritual one. 00:32:46.000 --> 00:32:48.860 We've all heard that people are kind of like talking about they're very spiritual. 00:32:49.360 --> 00:32:51.660 Do you know, I think there's a reason why. 00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:55.920 And here's why the Internet has everything available. 00:32:56.180 --> 00:32:57.180 It can access everything. 00:32:57.880 --> 00:33:03.180 You know, my kid came the other day saying, you know, mommy, this is how they do the magic trick with whatever. 00:33:03.340 --> 00:33:05.140 So I said, dude, you're about to ruin my childhood. 00:33:05.320 --> 00:33:13.120 Just don't show me like I do not want you to show me how they cut the woman in half, because that for me is like a magic moment. 00:33:13.460 --> 00:33:15.040 It's a it's an experience that I don't want. 00:33:15.180 --> 00:33:18.520 And I don't want to know how how it works because you're going to ruin it for me. 00:33:19.140 --> 00:33:24.360 The previous generations, we had awe and wonder. 00:33:25.740 --> 00:33:27.560 Simply because we didn't know everything. 00:33:27.820 --> 00:33:29.340 Now, everything is out there. 00:33:29.520 --> 00:33:30.500 Everything is available. 00:33:30.760 --> 00:33:32.600 So guess what's left? 00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:33.180 Nothing. 00:33:33.340 --> 00:33:37.740 So they have to pursue awe and wonder in the spiritual world. 00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:44.880 Because the natural world literally gives you everything that you possibly, you know, could possibly need at any time. 00:33:45.340 --> 00:33:46.560 Now, we don't we don't know. 00:33:47.060 --> 00:33:50.080 Disclaimer, we're I don't know, 20, 30 minutes into this thing. 00:33:50.340 --> 00:33:55.460 We don't normally get like this level of communications like here on the podcast. 00:33:55.460 --> 00:34:03.140 Like she just dropped a tidbit about how personalization and and curation are different things. 00:34:03.140 --> 00:34:07.020 And I almost want to just do a podcast episode just on that. 00:34:07.100 --> 00:34:10.000 Like I'm nerding out over here on the communications aspect, my well. 00:34:10.100 --> 00:34:16.800 And so we're probably going to bring you back on very soon to dig into that because the idea of personalization is in communication. 00:34:16.860 --> 00:34:22.680 Once again, this is this is this is where this is where we should be, not where we're going. 00:34:22.680 --> 00:34:29.440 And so in many ways, the church is catching up on a lot, a lot of this contextually in the idea. 00:34:29.580 --> 00:34:32.040 But but trust and trusting that circle. 00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:36.300 Andy Mage, by the way, operations director at the Church Digital is phenomenal. 00:34:36.440 --> 00:34:46.180 If you're not listening to his podcast, FTTT from text to testimony and some of the stuff that he's doing through through glue and some of those reasons. 00:34:46.180 --> 00:34:47.300 It's like it's like it's incredible stuff. 00:34:47.380 --> 00:34:49.340 So we'll put a link in the show notes for that. 00:34:50.140 --> 00:35:11.780 But as we as we're getting into this communication stuff, really, I think what we're doing is is laying this this foundation for for us as as organizations to start to understand that if we want to be effective in reaching particular people or particular groups of people that are messaging may need to adjust. 00:35:11.780 --> 00:35:16.820 Now, the Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever like nobody's nobody's questioning that. 00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:29.720 But to think that I have I'm going to have the ability to present a message in a certain way in the same format and have it be effective to reach that 80 year old person and that 18 year old person and that eight year old person. 00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:32.320 Like it just it doesn't doesn't work that way. 00:35:32.380 --> 00:35:35.060 And it hasn't to be honest, hasn't worked that way in decades. 00:35:35.480 --> 00:35:51.280 But as a church, we need to start to consider the idea of of targeted communications and targeted audience and start to to really start to to wrestle with that, which, you know, some churches are like, of course, and some churches are like, what are you what are you talking about? 00:35:51.460 --> 00:35:52.600 I'm sorry, I cut you off, Barbara. 00:35:52.660 --> 00:35:52.900 Go ahead. 00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:57.220 No, I was going to say, like you asked about, like, how do we communicate with different generations? 00:35:57.500 --> 00:36:00.460 And the reality is you're going to have to find different channels. 00:36:01.420 --> 00:36:13.320 And so now when you think of your traditional church where people come on a Sunday to a building, that obviously generates, in my opinion, a greater limitation when it comes to the communication side. 00:36:13.400 --> 00:36:14.900 Can a church be multigenerational? 00:36:15.060 --> 00:36:16.000 A hundred percent. 00:36:16.460 --> 00:36:17.860 Should it be multigenerational? 00:36:18.140 --> 00:36:19.300 Yes, it should. 00:36:19.720 --> 00:36:25.140 But when it comes to communications, what you're going to see is that channels have to be segmented. 00:36:25.240 --> 00:36:27.980 They have to be utilized in ways that are different for everybody. 00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:31.000 And so what we do is we stuff every channel with everything. 00:36:31.880 --> 00:36:34.960 We're just going to be like, OK, on my social media, I'm going to put everything. 00:36:35.200 --> 00:36:37.220 And then on my email newsletter, I'm going to put everything. 00:36:37.540 --> 00:36:44.740 And all you have to do is figure out, OK, can we start doing, and this is traditional segmenting, like marketers have been talking about this for a long time. 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:54.200 But can we pull the youth to a text message, maybe, you know, and not have to send them the newsletter because the reality is they will not open that email. 00:36:54.200 --> 00:36:56.100 Like my kids don't open email. 00:36:56.180 --> 00:36:56.720 They don't know. 00:36:56.860 --> 00:36:58.480 You know what they think email is for? 00:36:59.100 --> 00:37:00.580 Confirmation from a doctor's appointment. 00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.220 Confirmation that the software is. 00:37:02.380 --> 00:37:04.120 Like, that's what email is for for them. 00:37:04.180 --> 00:37:05.380 It's not for communications. 00:37:05.640 --> 00:37:09.100 It's more like a like a record of receipts kind of thing. 00:37:09.160 --> 00:37:15.500 It's just that they're, you know, they're they're a little like confirmed that this thing exists and it's going to be done that way. 00:37:15.560 --> 00:37:17.460 But that's that's the extent of it. 00:37:17.520 --> 00:37:24.060 So communication happens over direct message and churches are not prepared for that or the majority are not prepared for that. 00:37:24.120 --> 00:37:29.600 But let's address it from this angle by segmenting how you communicate, even visually. 00:37:29.860 --> 00:37:36.060 So you can have a website that looks and speaks to it looks a certain way and speaks to a certain group of people. 00:37:36.600 --> 00:37:40.720 And maybe you can still print that newsletter and send to a few people in your church. 00:37:40.800 --> 00:37:41.300 They'll be OK. 00:37:42.280 --> 00:37:43.420 You can still print those. 00:37:44.220 --> 00:37:44.740 Send them over. 00:37:44.880 --> 00:37:49.160 I feel like the the the older generation in your church will really appreciate that. 00:37:49.240 --> 00:37:53.560 So I'm not a big advocate of like just cut it off because it's old. 00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:57.520 No, just be smart and wise with your resources. 00:37:57.520 --> 00:37:59.420 You don't have to print 2000. 00:37:59.980 --> 00:38:05.000 I think it would mean a lot for some people to have a channel that matches the way they are engaging. 00:38:05.120 --> 00:38:07.660 Now, what happens when you have 20 channels? 00:38:07.900 --> 00:38:11.140 You have to have the resources to manage those 20 channels. 00:38:11.320 --> 00:38:12.880 And so most churches don't have it. 00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:15.940 I'm talking money, time, resources, people, right? 00:38:16.060 --> 00:38:16.400 Tools. 00:38:16.880 --> 00:38:18.600 These are all resources that you need. 00:38:18.680 --> 00:38:27.000 So if you're having like if you're spreading yourself and your volunteers too thin to handle 20, maybe we should cut it down to 10. 00:38:27.000 --> 00:38:31.000 And by doing so, I think you're going to have to be OK by saying, you know what? 00:38:31.060 --> 00:38:33.320 Right now, these are the people we can serve well. 00:38:34.240 --> 00:38:40.420 And maybe we can, I don't know, get together with another church that can serve the other group well. 00:38:41.640 --> 00:38:48.120 Well, I tell you, you may have just said the most controversial thing on the Church Digital Podcast this year, the idea that you would advocate 00:38:48.120 --> 00:38:52.240 for printing the Sunday Morning Bulletin and continue printing that. 00:38:52.600 --> 00:38:52.860 Yeah. 00:38:53.100 --> 00:38:59.440 I literally had a conversation this week with somebody spouting venom about their bulletin. 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:00.220 They're still doing so. 00:39:00.580 --> 00:39:03.060 Like I know there's a lot of hate about the paper. 00:39:03.420 --> 00:39:05.640 Listen, if you want, if you, whatever works. 00:39:05.760 --> 00:39:09.780 I feel like we cannot discard a tactic just because others say it's outdated. 00:39:10.440 --> 00:39:13.740 Um, there are churches like we had a, we had a church we worked with. 00:39:13.880 --> 00:39:16.180 They were literally in a retired community. 00:39:16.840 --> 00:39:17.240 Yeah. 00:39:17.740 --> 00:39:18.820 Looking from the outside. 00:39:18.820 --> 00:39:22.080 If you were to just look from the outside, you say, oh, this church is aging. 00:39:22.440 --> 00:39:24.360 They're not thinking about the new generation. 00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:29.100 And I was like, you have no context to understand what's happening there. 00:39:29.100 --> 00:39:42.600 They should keep this and this and this and this because they literally live and serve a community that is of retired people that will operate in a certain way and respond positively to a certain thing. 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:46.820 So we need to understand that channels cannot be more important than people. 00:39:47.040 --> 00:39:50.700 We have to start with people and then decide what channels make sense. 00:39:50.780 --> 00:39:54.040 You want to send, you want to send a bird with a message? 00:39:54.160 --> 00:39:55.000 You send the bird. 00:39:55.140 --> 00:39:56.680 Like I'm okay with that. 00:39:56.680 --> 00:40:00.520 As long as you have the resources and it matches the people that you speak, that you're speaking to. 00:40:00.600 --> 00:40:03.400 I mean, what are we doing other countries when we go on missions? 00:40:03.640 --> 00:40:04.300 What do we do? 00:40:05.120 --> 00:40:06.280 We learn their culture. 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:08.240 We understand their language. 00:40:08.540 --> 00:40:12.640 We understand their, I mean, I've, I've had, uh, times in the past where I was 00:40:12.640 --> 00:40:19.680 supposed to buy a specific piece of clothes in order to go to this missions trip because of the way that the culture there works. 00:40:19.680 --> 00:40:20.780 It's the same way. 00:40:21.200 --> 00:40:26.020 Learn about your people and serve them the way that makes sense for them to be served. 00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:28.280 This, this is so, this is so good. 00:40:28.520 --> 00:40:33.100 And, and, and to be honest, Barbara, like I'm, I'm just going to lay it out right here. 00:40:33.600 --> 00:40:38.900 Um, like what you're doing is you're challenging the concept of omni channel where you communicate everything everywhere. 00:40:39.480 --> 00:40:42.620 Now I'm not, I'm not actually sure this blog still exists on the church. 00:40:42.640 --> 00:40:50.220 I may have taken it down because pre COVID 2018, 2019, I was actually an advocate for omni channel. 00:40:50.480 --> 00:40:53.200 Uh, the idea of trying to help churches lean into digital. 00:40:53.380 --> 00:40:54.360 Oh, it's so easy. 00:40:54.380 --> 00:40:55.420 Just do everything everywhere. 00:40:55.420 --> 00:40:56.800 Like, don't, don't think about it. 00:40:56.960 --> 00:41:05.700 But honestly, like the, the nail in the omni channel coffin was COVID because it just accelerated everything so quickly. 00:41:05.860 --> 00:41:10.180 And all of a sudden now you saw more targeted audience versus some of these channels. 00:41:10.180 --> 00:41:11.580 You saw tick tock. 00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:17.280 You saw the, the, the, uh, the, uh, the, uh, the Gen Z's and even the millennials bail from Facebook. 00:41:17.480 --> 00:41:23.700 You started to see, you know, more of a, of a tick tock crowd, um, accelerate exodus away. 00:41:23.840 --> 00:41:27.800 Facebook kind of whatever lamenting over whatever's going on there. 00:41:28.480 --> 00:41:41.440 Um, and just as, as a result of that, now you're starting to see these, these characteristics, these communities be more defined by demographics and, uh, which, which really has become this, this curation aspect. 00:41:41.520 --> 00:41:48.560 As that generation maybe it's become more defined, there's others start to, to lean into the concept as the technology matures. 00:41:48.860 --> 00:41:58.880 And so, and let me, let me give you another example that will clarify some of this because you can have those different channels and you can utilize them in a way that is kind of like, you know, more massive. 00:41:58.980 --> 00:42:01.200 And remember some churches are larger than others. 00:42:01.200 --> 00:42:02.400 So they have more resources. 00:42:02.620 --> 00:42:05.760 So it's easy to operate more channels when you have more resources. 00:42:05.760 --> 00:42:11.160 Uh, but for the, you know, normal church out there, a hundred people, 150, 200. 00:42:11.520 --> 00:42:12.680 That's not the case. 00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:28.060 Uh, and so instead of the pastor staying up, posting to social media and doing all these things and printing and designing and copying and like, which is very common nowadays, like we just want to make sure we are inviting people for that first step that makes sense to them. 00:42:28.060 --> 00:42:32.800 Remember when you think of a curation, it's a path, it's a path. 00:42:33.060 --> 00:42:38.880 All you have to do is invite them for the, to the first thing that you want them to do to enter your circle of trust. 00:42:38.940 --> 00:42:39.380 That's it. 00:42:39.780 --> 00:42:42.640 And that circle of trust can be entered from different places. 00:42:42.840 --> 00:42:49.460 So if I'm a baby boomer, it could be because you have an event that applies to me and what I'm doing. 00:42:49.460 --> 00:42:52.540 Maybe it's like a, you know, fundraiser dinner. 00:42:53.060 --> 00:42:54.320 And now I know about your church. 00:42:54.440 --> 00:42:57.080 And from there I enter your curation path. 00:42:57.700 --> 00:42:57.840 Yeah. 00:42:57.900 --> 00:43:05.000 And then you have another one that is different for a different audience in a different, uh, but then, uh, once they enter the circle of trust, 00:43:05.000 --> 00:43:15.800 then you do whatever, whatever you're currently doing, like whatever events, whatever, um, activities, uh, and you start introducing them to the other people in your circle of trust. 00:43:15.960 --> 00:43:21.620 So people, marketers, at least used to talk about this as a funnel, like, Oh, a bunch of people at the top. 00:43:21.620 --> 00:43:22.580 And then it goes down the funnel. 00:43:22.720 --> 00:43:23.880 And I don't think it's a funnel. 00:43:23.920 --> 00:43:24.980 I think it's a path. 00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:26.200 I do believe that. 00:43:26.280 --> 00:43:29.040 And we're not inviting people to the end of the road. 00:43:29.640 --> 00:43:32.040 We're inviting people for that, to that first step. 00:43:32.140 --> 00:43:34.100 So I'll give you very practical examples. 00:43:34.240 --> 00:43:37.220 When we think of websites, it's one of the things we do the most. 00:43:37.800 --> 00:43:42.680 And so when I think of a website, uh, generally you have people, uh, designing websites for churches. 00:43:42.680 --> 00:43:44.160 Like, this is all the events we do. 00:43:44.240 --> 00:43:45.540 These are the sermons that we have. 00:43:45.640 --> 00:43:47.160 These are the times that we gather. 00:43:47.320 --> 00:43:52.680 These are the, you know, all we have kids and students and seniors and singles. 00:43:52.680 --> 00:43:55.760 And, you know, all of the offerings, it's like a menu. 00:43:55.900 --> 00:43:58.820 It's like a Mexican menu of all the things that you can do at that church. 00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:01.760 Uh, and believe it or not, that's still stuck in the information age. 00:44:02.300 --> 00:44:03.580 They're just giving information. 00:44:03.820 --> 00:44:04.220 That's it. 00:44:04.280 --> 00:44:05.920 They're not even in the engagement age yet. 00:44:06.140 --> 00:44:08.480 And so much less do the jump to curation. 00:44:08.660 --> 00:44:12.760 Uh, what we do is we say, okay, what would be the first thing that a person in this demographic, 00:44:12.760 --> 00:44:15.620 in this area for this church would be willing to do? 00:44:16.660 --> 00:44:20.780 And most of the time, the first step is not to come to church on Sunday. 00:44:21.300 --> 00:44:26.300 So often you will see a website that we design in the call to action on the homepage or the 00:44:26.300 --> 00:44:32.540 whole homepage is to meet with a pastor for coffee on a Wednesday, on a Tuesday, at a coffee 00:44:32.540 --> 00:44:32.700 shop. 00:44:32.700 --> 00:44:33.360 Building the trust, the relational equity. 00:44:33.620 --> 00:44:36.420 You're just bringing them through the first step that makes sense to them. 00:44:37.080 --> 00:44:38.460 Sometimes it's to ask a question. 00:44:38.640 --> 00:44:39.640 Hey, do you have a question? 00:44:39.740 --> 00:44:40.480 Ask a question. 00:44:40.800 --> 00:44:41.740 And that's the first step. 00:44:41.800 --> 00:44:43.120 That's the only thing you want them to do. 00:44:43.520 --> 00:44:45.960 So will I find the time and locations? 00:44:46.440 --> 00:44:46.760 Yes. 00:44:47.620 --> 00:44:49.420 Will I find if you have kids or not? 00:44:49.720 --> 00:44:50.080 Yes. 00:44:50.580 --> 00:44:54.360 But my focus is to simply invite you into my circle of trust. 00:44:55.180 --> 00:44:59.240 And there, that is an answer that is a lot easier to give than I'm showing up on Sunday 00:44:59.240 --> 00:45:01.540 with my wife and my kids. 00:45:01.720 --> 00:45:02.860 And I don't know where to park. 00:45:03.140 --> 00:45:04.280 And I don't know what to dress. 00:45:04.520 --> 00:45:06.800 And you don't have to worry about those things anymore. 00:45:07.260 --> 00:45:08.700 And this is on the physical church. 00:45:08.960 --> 00:45:10.400 Let's talk about the digital church. 00:45:10.940 --> 00:45:16.740 What is the first step you would want people to take before they show up for an actual meeting, 00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:18.440 gathering, events that you're organizing? 00:45:19.060 --> 00:45:20.380 Maybe it's just to join this court. 00:45:21.740 --> 00:45:22.880 That's an easier yes. 00:45:24.200 --> 00:45:26.560 And now they're in the circle of trust that you're building. 00:45:27.640 --> 00:45:28.040 Wow. 00:45:28.800 --> 00:45:33.780 For Gen X, you said millennial. 00:45:34.120 --> 00:45:37.100 Like, that's, that's, I'm sorry, you said, you said discord. 00:45:37.280 --> 00:45:38.460 That's borderline impressive. 00:45:39.560 --> 00:45:41.420 I mean, I want to draw attention to that. 00:45:41.540 --> 00:45:43.460 I butchered the line totally, but I still think it's impressive. 00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:45.160 Yeah. 00:45:45.700 --> 00:45:47.820 How does somebody become a curator? 00:45:48.320 --> 00:45:52.620 Like, I mean, I woke up one morning and said, hey, I want to start the church digital 00:45:52.620 --> 00:45:56.200 and I want to help, like, churches figure this stuff out. 00:45:56.200 --> 00:45:59.620 And so, like, that was me in 2018, 2017. 00:46:00.100 --> 00:46:00.920 Yeah, yeah. 00:46:01.060 --> 00:46:03.380 And so, like, I set out to do that. 00:46:03.720 --> 00:46:05.560 But does it, is it always that intentional? 00:46:05.760 --> 00:46:06.660 Is it unintentional? 00:46:06.700 --> 00:46:07.520 Like, what does that look like? 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:13.140 I think most of the time is very unintentional, but it's done intuitively. 00:46:14.180 --> 00:46:18.700 So, oh, this is where we definitely need to schedule another, another podcast because, 00:46:18.700 --> 00:46:26.440 okay, what you are curating for people is the satisfaction of a key human desire. 00:46:28.700 --> 00:46:29.140 Yeah? 00:46:29.460 --> 00:46:31.420 All churches are doing the same thing. 00:46:31.420 --> 00:46:33.740 All individuals, all organizations. 00:46:33.740 --> 00:46:38.900 Like, you go to Starbucks for one reason and it's not the coffee because there's coffee in 00:46:38.900 --> 00:46:39.780 many other places. 00:46:40.160 --> 00:46:45.800 And so, there's a key human desire that is being satisfied by the organizations that we 00:46:45.800 --> 00:46:46.940 engage with. 00:46:47.040 --> 00:46:55.060 And so, when I think of a church, I need to figure out, am I curating a path of hope for 00:46:55.060 --> 00:46:55.920 people in my area? 00:46:56.180 --> 00:46:59.260 Am I curating a path of belonging for people in my area? 00:46:59.360 --> 00:47:02.320 Am I creating a path of truth for people in my area? 00:47:02.880 --> 00:47:09.180 And I do believe that when, and you and I have gone through this process together already. 00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:14.100 I do believe that there are 12 archetypes that a church can fall into. 00:47:14.760 --> 00:47:21.080 And we, let's be honest, we all want our churches to instill hope and to bring truth and to create 00:47:21.080 --> 00:47:21.600 belonging. 00:47:21.960 --> 00:47:27.000 But there's going to be one of these that will rise to the surface. 00:47:28.280 --> 00:47:34.480 So, you can see that, for example, Tim Keller's church is a church that would be focused on 00:47:34.480 --> 00:47:35.000 the truth. 00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:36.600 That's the key human desire. 00:47:37.080 --> 00:47:39.220 And I can give you very clear examples of this. 00:47:39.520 --> 00:47:43.700 The people in New York, the intellectuals in New York that would go to his church, and 00:47:43.700 --> 00:47:47.300 this is, again, I'm talking generically, okay, it's stereotypical. 00:47:48.320 --> 00:47:53.500 They don't have to worry about belonging, protection, and money can buy those things, right? 00:47:54.000 --> 00:47:56.380 They have enough in their lives to buy those things. 00:47:56.580 --> 00:47:59.420 But they might be pursuing truth, and they don't know where to find it. 00:48:00.260 --> 00:48:06.620 And so, that demographic might actually resonate with a church like Tim Keller's, where it's 00:48:06.620 --> 00:48:07.740 focused on the truth. 00:48:07.900 --> 00:48:12.380 You go to Louis Giglio in Atlanta, and now we're talking about hope. 00:48:13.280 --> 00:48:13.340 Yeah. 00:48:13.900 --> 00:48:14.120 Yeah? 00:48:14.240 --> 00:48:17.500 And then you go to Andy Stanley, and you're talking about leadership. 00:48:18.940 --> 00:48:23.560 And these churches, independent of their theology, we're not talking about their theology as 00:48:23.560 --> 00:48:26.520 much as it is the expression of how they do church. 00:48:26.680 --> 00:48:28.160 It can happen online as well. 00:48:28.240 --> 00:48:31.680 So, I believe each church is responding to a key human desire. 00:48:32.060 --> 00:48:35.920 If you know what is the key human desire that you're responding to, that is your path of 00:48:35.920 --> 00:48:36.320 curation. 00:48:36.400 --> 00:48:38.400 That is the path of curation you're creating for people. 00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:48.060 So, in your case, you know, in my case, we're focusing on, believe it or not, it's actually, 00:48:48.920 --> 00:48:53.620 it has to do with like acceptance and belonging, because we're creating a space for those that 00:48:53.620 --> 00:48:54.300 are on the outside. 00:48:56.140 --> 00:48:56.360 Yeah? 00:48:56.740 --> 00:49:01.700 So, who are the people that would not identify or feel comfortable, when you think of a digital 00:49:01.700 --> 00:49:06.960 church in the metaverse, what they're doing is they're creating acceptance for the person 00:49:06.960 --> 00:49:10.300 that feels like in everything that exists out there, I don't belong. 00:49:11.380 --> 00:49:12.480 And that's what they're doing. 00:49:12.540 --> 00:49:13.480 It's a path of curation. 00:49:13.520 --> 00:49:18.900 A church in the metaverse, I can tell you, a church in the metaverse is specifically creating 00:49:18.900 --> 00:49:21.180 and satisfying the desire of acceptance. 00:49:22.420 --> 00:49:23.360 That's what they're doing. 00:49:24.260 --> 00:49:26.260 And they can exist there successfully. 00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:27.460 Yeah. 00:49:28.120 --> 00:49:30.380 Stuart McPherson would tell you the same thing. 00:49:30.520 --> 00:49:33.020 I've had a conversation with him a lot on the metaverse. 00:49:34.520 --> 00:49:35.780 Very, very interesting. 00:49:35.940 --> 00:49:37.420 Oh my gosh, there's so much here. 00:49:37.620 --> 00:49:38.980 Like, we're going to have to do another conversation. 00:49:39.080 --> 00:49:41.880 I want to get into personas and all this. 00:49:42.060 --> 00:49:44.340 Like, you're just, you're just pulling all these threads. 00:49:44.420 --> 00:49:47.460 And I'm like, we could literally be here for like two, three hours having this conversation. 00:49:47.460 --> 00:49:51.120 We're going to have to break this up, because we've, both of us have other things 00:49:51.120 --> 00:49:54.180 to do and, and make it easier for the audience to process through. 00:49:54.620 --> 00:49:59.340 Let me ask, because, you know, some of this is, we've talked about the idea of targeted 00:49:59.340 --> 00:50:02.000 audience in context of ages. 00:50:02.700 --> 00:50:02.900 Yes. 00:50:02.920 --> 00:50:08.720 You know, I'm guessing there's, there's probably some characteristics and personas breaks it 00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:11.920 beyond just age as being the, the, the characteristic of that. 00:50:12.860 --> 00:50:18.540 You know, and obviously different, different people, men and women have, have different interests 00:50:18.540 --> 00:50:24.000 and different communication challenges, even different, like you mentioned with your Tim 00:50:24.000 --> 00:50:28.800 Keller versus Andy Stanley and, and, and, and that crowd, you know, it's different. 00:50:28.940 --> 00:50:34.060 And that's some of the danger of, of omni channel or even, Hey, let me watch and see what 00:50:34.060 --> 00:50:34.900 somebody else is doing. 00:50:34.920 --> 00:50:36.320 And I'm going to do the exact same thing. 00:50:36.320 --> 00:50:39.480 You know, it's, it's like, um, it's, it's conference envy. 00:50:39.700 --> 00:50:41.000 So-and-so said they do it this way. 00:50:41.000 --> 00:50:42.140 So I'm going to do the same thing. 00:50:42.140 --> 00:50:47.040 And, and so there's, there's some challenges to that, but I, I'm actually not sure if you're 00:50:47.040 --> 00:50:48.020 how you're going to answer this. 00:50:48.680 --> 00:50:54.280 Um, cause, but sometimes, you know, you, you shoot the shotgun and, uh, and that one pellet 00:50:54.280 --> 00:50:56.060 does actually land biblically. 00:50:56.060 --> 00:51:00.040 It talks about scattering seed and, and yeah, some of it's rocky path and thorny bush, but 00:51:00.040 --> 00:51:02.340 some of it lands on, on, on soil. 00:51:02.780 --> 00:51:05.980 Um, do you put your sermon on, on LinkedIn? 00:51:06.720 --> 00:51:09.720 Like the majority of audience is probably not going to connect. 00:51:09.820 --> 00:51:11.240 I get this question all the time. 00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:12.860 Why don't we put the sermon on LinkedIn? 00:51:13.000 --> 00:51:14.180 Why does nobody do that? 00:51:14.640 --> 00:51:15.840 Because it's, it's free. 00:51:15.940 --> 00:51:16.600 It's easy. 00:51:17.240 --> 00:51:20.400 Somebody, it might, that one pellet might actually connect. 00:51:20.480 --> 00:51:23.660 I know this is a graphic example, but bear with me. 00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:28.980 Like, is it, is it worth doing or what's the damage if you do do it? 00:51:29.060 --> 00:51:31.040 Like kind of wrestle with some of that for me. 00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:35.080 So I think it comes down to being wise with your resources really. 00:51:35.240 --> 00:51:40.300 And so when I think of a curator, somebody that is very niched down, it's someone that 00:51:40.300 --> 00:51:45.380 is very specific, like, you know, you know exactly what path they're curating for you. 00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:46.040 There's no doubt. 00:51:46.120 --> 00:51:46.780 It's not generic. 00:51:46.900 --> 00:51:47.500 It's not vanilla. 00:51:47.660 --> 00:51:47.840 Right. 00:51:47.880 --> 00:51:52.540 And so when I follow somebody that is helping me with metaverse stuff, they're helping me 00:51:52.540 --> 00:51:53.520 with metaverse stuff. 00:51:53.680 --> 00:51:57.880 I don't expect them to help me with, you know, how to decorate my, my house. 00:51:57.880 --> 00:52:04.220 Like, so there's a, and we're going to have several curators for several things in what 00:52:04.220 --> 00:52:04.620 we're doing. 00:52:04.740 --> 00:52:09.620 And so the more narrow, the more narrow you can go, the easier it will be for people to 00:52:09.620 --> 00:52:12.540 say yes to following you as a curator for something. 00:52:13.080 --> 00:52:19.120 And so you have to be clear on what you're doing so that others can also join that movement 00:52:19.120 --> 00:52:20.340 that you're, that you're joining. 00:52:20.460 --> 00:52:24.920 So if you import ideas from other people, I mean, imagine if you're, if you're a church 00:52:24.920 --> 00:52:29.240 like Andy Stanley and you're importing things from Tim Keller's church, it's just not going 00:52:29.240 --> 00:52:29.660 to fit. 00:52:29.660 --> 00:52:34.900 And that's sometimes why you have some leadership issues is because you have some people focusing 00:52:34.900 --> 00:52:38.620 on one key human desire, and then you have other people focusing on another key human 00:52:38.620 --> 00:52:38.960 desire. 00:52:39.540 --> 00:52:43.620 If you are a teacher church and you have people coming to your church, you'll probably hear 00:52:43.620 --> 00:52:44.240 this often. 00:52:44.580 --> 00:52:49.160 They just didn't feed me enough over there because their pursuit was of truth. 00:52:50.680 --> 00:52:52.020 They didn't need the other things. 00:52:52.100 --> 00:52:53.560 Their pursuit was of truth. 00:52:54.060 --> 00:52:58.700 And so there will be churches designed specifically to fulfill that independent of how they operate. 00:52:58.700 --> 00:53:03.120 So this is what is interesting about these ideas is that it's a universal. 00:53:03.440 --> 00:53:05.280 You go to Asia, you're going to have teacher churches. 00:53:06.380 --> 00:53:08.600 You go to Africa, you're going to have leader churches. 00:53:09.020 --> 00:53:09.160 Yeah. 00:53:09.260 --> 00:53:11.480 It goes beyond how you express it. 00:53:11.640 --> 00:53:13.560 It goes beyond how you design it. 00:53:13.820 --> 00:53:15.680 But let's go back to the question you had. 00:53:15.680 --> 00:53:17.860 And I know that we can wrap up with that one. 00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:25.080 If I'm trying to figure out who my audience is, I do think that I need to focus on what 00:53:25.080 --> 00:53:26.680 is the key human desire we're satisfying. 00:53:26.860 --> 00:53:31.020 I would start there and then I would apply the layer of the generation on top of it. 00:53:31.300 --> 00:53:36.160 I would say, okay, right now, the way that we're going to express this will be visually 00:53:36.160 --> 00:53:40.940 for the millennial, in content for the millennial, in communications for the millennial. 00:53:41.700 --> 00:53:44.060 Others around, you need to see it as a target. 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:46.440 So the millennial is your bullseye. 00:53:47.320 --> 00:53:49.300 It's not just going to be exclusive to them. 00:53:49.600 --> 00:53:53.900 The next layer over, maybe the Gen Xers will feel like, hey, I'm not too far off. 00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:59.040 I can kind of identify with 80, 90% of what these guys are doing, you know. 00:53:59.160 --> 00:54:01.220 And then you're going to have another layer beyond that. 00:54:01.320 --> 00:54:05.900 So in a target, you're going to have maybe three, four layers of people that will still 00:54:05.900 --> 00:54:07.700 resonate with what's at the core. 00:54:07.780 --> 00:54:09.400 But you need to know where the target is. 00:54:09.400 --> 00:54:10.680 Like you have to have that core. 00:54:10.760 --> 00:54:12.440 You need to know what is the bullseye. 00:54:13.200 --> 00:54:18.900 And so I would start with the key human desire, capture what is the key human desire that our 00:54:18.900 --> 00:54:19.900 church is satisfying. 00:54:20.340 --> 00:54:25.620 And then I will add the layer of generations to determine how I communicate that. 00:54:25.620 --> 00:54:29.940 Because visually, in content, and even in channel, it will be different. 00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:30.780 Yeah. 00:54:31.100 --> 00:54:35.300 Now, some of you may be listening to some of this wisdom talking about target audience and 00:54:35.300 --> 00:54:36.480 realizing, hey, you know what? 00:54:36.540 --> 00:54:39.740 Like the church, we're called to reach our neighborhoods. 00:54:39.980 --> 00:54:41.260 We're called to reach that. 00:54:41.340 --> 00:54:43.820 And in physical environments, you may be. 00:54:44.860 --> 00:54:49.920 Digitally, though, this idea of scattering the seed, like it just doesn't work. 00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:54.940 Like that's actually a beautiful biblical parallel where you scatter the seed and it won't, digitally, 00:54:54.940 --> 00:54:59.660 it's not going to land nearly to the percentage wise that you think it can. 00:55:00.800 --> 00:55:04.200 You know, some of you may actually be thinking, because I've had conversations with people and 00:55:04.200 --> 00:55:05.420 they talk, well, Life.Church is doing it. 00:55:05.880 --> 00:55:10.060 Life.Church is taking that same message and they're launching all these campuses and doing 00:55:10.060 --> 00:55:10.760 all this stuff. 00:55:10.940 --> 00:55:11.740 And yeah, it's true. 00:55:11.820 --> 00:55:17.380 Life.Church is probably one of the largest, if not the largest, multi-site physical location 00:55:17.380 --> 00:55:18.560 church in America. 00:55:19.200 --> 00:55:20.680 But there's an interesting tidbit. 00:55:20.760 --> 00:55:24.160 And I actually have a bunch of friends over at Life.Church and had the luxury of hanging 00:55:24.160 --> 00:55:25.900 out with their operations team a lot. 00:55:26.400 --> 00:55:27.780 I don't know if you know this, Barbara. 00:55:28.040 --> 00:55:32.020 Life.Church, and this may not be true, this is several years ago when I had this conversation 00:55:32.020 --> 00:55:33.460 and things moved quickly over there. 00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:38.520 But for them, their target audience is Payway, the restaurant. 00:55:39.220 --> 00:55:45.120 They get opportunities to connect with churches. 00:55:45.340 --> 00:55:46.640 Like people approach them all the time. 00:55:47.060 --> 00:55:48.020 Come take over my church. 00:55:48.020 --> 00:55:48.940 Come take over our property. 00:55:49.060 --> 00:55:49.900 Come take over our debt. 00:55:50.000 --> 00:55:50.680 You know, just whatever. 00:55:51.280 --> 00:55:52.760 People trying to merge in with Life.Church. 00:55:52.980 --> 00:55:58.240 And one of the first things that Life.Church does is see if there's a payway anywhere near 00:55:58.240 --> 00:55:59.000 that location. 00:55:59.640 --> 00:56:05.200 Because the type of person, what they figured out, the type of audience that Life.Church is 00:56:05.200 --> 00:56:09.940 designed to reach is the type of person that would go to Payway, the restaurant. 00:56:10.340 --> 00:56:17.240 And so, like, if there's no payway in your town, there's a very good chance Life.Church is not coming to you. 00:56:17.480 --> 00:56:18.840 Now, like I said, things may have changed. 00:56:18.960 --> 00:56:22.140 That was maybe three years ago, early COVID, when I had that conversation. 00:56:22.480 --> 00:56:38.800 But the fact is, is that everybody is, at least the churches that are effective, physically, digitally, fidgetally, whatever, hybrid, thinking more and more targeted is going to help you be more effective with what we're trying to do. 00:56:39.360 --> 00:56:43.520 It's, you know, I say this, and people, like, look at me like I'm crazy. 00:56:43.980 --> 00:56:48.980 But effectively trying to reach less people will help you reach more people. 00:56:49.400 --> 00:56:56.580 It's when you try to reach more people that your stuff is ineffective and you actually reach less than if you had tried to reach less. 00:56:56.660 --> 00:56:58.000 That's when you multiply and get more. 00:56:58.140 --> 00:56:59.100 Go back to the Bible. 00:56:59.640 --> 00:57:00.340 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:57:01.340 --> 00:57:04.460 Man, that crazy Jesus guy actually knew what he was talking about. 00:57:04.460 --> 00:57:07.540 Like, it's 2,000 years later, this stuff's still working. 00:57:08.060 --> 00:57:13.260 And by the way, like some of the top marketing guys right now, I talk about Seth Godin. 00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:24.220 You can go back to previous podcasts and blogs, but some of the stuff Seth Godin talks about and the way that he handles marketing is, I mean, I hate to be, like, straight biblical, but, dude, it freaking comes from the Bible. 00:57:24.880 --> 00:57:31.500 And I think Seth Godin's Jewish, so I'm not sure where he pulls it from, but it's some of the New Testament stuff, like, he pulls as well. 00:57:31.500 --> 00:57:34.460 So it's really, really interesting. 00:57:34.640 --> 00:57:37.880 Barbara, this has been a phenomenal conversation. 00:57:37.960 --> 00:57:38.780 We're going to have to do it again. 00:57:39.000 --> 00:57:44.800 Like, over here on the side, I am taking notes for what I want to dig into for the next conversation. 00:57:45.000 --> 00:57:47.380 So we're going to do this real soon and have you come back. 00:57:47.880 --> 00:57:53.680 And, you know, I love communications, church communications, and this has been a lot of fun. 00:57:53.800 --> 00:57:56.180 As we're landing the plane here, any closing thoughts? 00:57:57.640 --> 00:58:00.860 Listen, just know that it is simpler than you think it is. 00:58:00.860 --> 00:58:04.740 I feel like we overcomplicate things, and I think we're ready for simplification now. 00:58:04.820 --> 00:58:06.180 I think the church is ready for that. 00:58:06.540 --> 00:58:06.860 Beautiful. 00:58:07.220 --> 00:58:07.540 Simplification. 00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:08.880 2024. 00:58:10.040 --> 00:58:11.320 Curation and simplification. 00:58:11.580 --> 00:58:13.220 That does a lot. 00:58:13.720 --> 00:58:18.280 You know, we made things really complicated, maybe over the past decade or so. 00:58:18.420 --> 00:58:21.740 And so a simplification would be a great help. 00:58:21.860 --> 00:58:22.880 But, hey, we're going to land the plane. 00:58:23.720 --> 00:58:26.800 And so, hey, I hope this podcast has been helpful for you. 00:58:27.380 --> 00:58:35.940 If it has not, once again, go ahead and email Bernie at Romans, R-O-M-A-N-S, at thechurch.digital. 00:58:36.100 --> 00:58:37.960 And tell them Jeff said hello. 00:58:38.120 --> 00:58:38.620 That'll be great. 00:58:39.200 --> 00:58:41.660 But for Barbara, this is Jeff at The Church Digital. 00:58:41.660 --> 00:58:44.040 Thanks for jumping on the podcast here. 00:58:44.320 --> 00:58:45.740 And we'll see you next time on the show. 00:58:46.160 --> 00:58:46.820 Y'all have a good day. 00:58:46.820 --> 00:59:01.400 I'll see you next time on the show.