WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.720 it's going to be fascinating to hear some youth pastors actually have to get up there and talk 00:00:03.720 --> 00:00:09.720 about it. Like, I'm scared of having that talk, and yet I'm also kind of looking forward to it 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:14.160 because I have a lot of things to say about it. Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:15.140 --> 00:00:19.000 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church, 00:00:19.180 --> 00:00:24.640 but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. Is disciple making possible 00:00:24.640 --> 00:00:29.040 digitally? How should we approach the digital mission field? Can a biblically grounded church 00:00:29.040 --> 00:00:34.220 operate in digital space? Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all 00:00:34.220 --> 00:00:40.460 of this? Whether you're a big or small church, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like 00:00:40.460 --> 00:00:46.440 yours learn to be a multiplying church digitally and physically. And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:47.300 --> 00:00:53.400 Episode 282 of the Church Digital Podcast. 282, Andy Bage coming up right around the corner. But 00:00:53.400 --> 00:00:57.400 before we get there, we've got a new part of the intro that I'm excited to share with you, 00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:03.280 brought to you by Riverside. That's right. The Church Digital Podcast has a sponsorship now, 00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:10.920 Riverside. It is an incredible software. I cannot tell you how many hundreds of podcast episodes and 00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:18.260 YouTube videos and shows we have produced here at the Church Digital utilizing Riverside software. 00:01:18.260 --> 00:01:48.240 Andy Bage, myself, Garrett Silji, Dr. I'm sorry, John Pyle. There's been so many people within the Church Digital utilizing this software. And it is incredible. Listen, we've done the whole like long distance interviews, remote interviews. We interview people all over the country, all over the world. We've got an interview from Germany coming up in a couple weeks. And so we've done things like, hey, let's try Zoom. Zoom is horrible when it comes to recording video. Can I say that? I don't know if I can. 00:01:48.260 --> 00:02:04.540 I don't know if I can say that, but sue me. Listen, we've tried. Listen, I have tried every product under the planet when looking at remote interview software. And the quality that we get out of Riverside is incredible. Audio as well as video. 00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:22.540 So listen, Church, if you're thinking about doing a remote podcast interview, stuff like that, start checking out Riverside. For more information, it's an incredible tool. For more information, swing over to thechurch.digital slash Riverside. Thechurch.digital slash Riverside. 00:02:23.260 --> 00:02:32.440 Okay, let's get into this Andy Mage thing. So we're going to talk about the Apple Vision Pro today. Just kidding. Yeah, maybe a small device. Maybe you've heard of it. $3,500. 00:02:33.200 --> 00:02:43.980 Apple sells 200,000 of them within the first week or so, something like that. This is a huge device release. One that I've been waiting for vocally for many, many years. 00:02:43.980 --> 00:03:00.160 But let me tell you, I'm self-confessed here. I'm a huge Apple fan. When the first version of the iPhone came out, I showed up at the mall at Wellington Green in West Palm Beach, Florida, at 3 a.m. to pick up that bad boy and stood in line for hours. 00:03:00.300 --> 00:03:07.720 I was number seven to get the iPhone at the little Apple store. Actually, a huge Apple store at Mall at Wellington Green for that. That's so many years ago. 00:03:08.140 --> 00:03:18.400 But, you know, I see the price tag for $3,500 on this one for the Apple Vision Pro. And I decided to, you know, I got to wait. I'm a pastor. 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:25.300 That's like, you know, way more than I've got to spend on this device. But I am so curious about what it's going to be. 00:03:25.380 --> 00:03:38.680 And I'm so hopeful for the augmented reality, for the virtual reality, for the XR, the mixed reality that's going to come out of this device, what it's going to do for the workplace, what it's going to do for community. 00:03:38.880 --> 00:03:47.960 Like, there is so much potential. And I would dare suggest there's so much writing on this, on the future when Apple, you know, I trust Apple a lot more than I trust Facebook. 00:03:48.520 --> 00:03:59.200 So I really but I haven't been able to touch this thing. And that's where Andy Mage comes into place in a meeting with Andy Mage, by the way, operations director for the church digital producer here of the church digital podcast. 00:03:59.200 --> 00:04:07.280 And Andy just drops a nugget. He's like, oh, yeah, I got to play with an Apple Pro Max for Apple Provision Pro for a couple of days or something like that, he said. 00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:13.480 And, you know, after my mouth dropped, jaw hit the floor, I said to him, hey, let's jump on a podcast. 00:04:13.660 --> 00:04:17.960 Let's have a conversation because I want to know all about this thing, what you're experiencing, what you're feeling. 00:04:18.360 --> 00:04:22.320 What do you think we're hitting? So we did. We jumped on a podcast and here we are. 00:04:22.380 --> 00:04:27.200 Episode 282 launching right now. We talk Apple Vision Pro. We talk we talk some other stuff. 00:04:27.200 --> 00:04:31.200 Stick around. We kind of toy with some other things down the road. But 282 is great. 00:04:32.460 --> 00:04:36.760 And so here you go. Episode 282, Apple Vision Pro. I did it again. 00:04:36.840 --> 00:04:42.300 Apple Vision Pro. That's right. Apple Vision Pro and Andy Mage here on the church digital podcast. 00:04:44.660 --> 00:04:48.300 All right. Andy Mage joining us here on the church digital podcast. 00:04:48.420 --> 00:04:51.300 I'd say something awkward like, how are you doing, Andy? 00:04:51.480 --> 00:04:54.920 Except, you know, I've talked to you maybe three or four times already today. 00:04:55.240 --> 00:05:00.220 So not much of a surprise. But for the listening audience, how are you doing, Andy? 00:05:00.640 --> 00:05:04.740 Hey, Jeff, I'm great. I'm so happy to be here. Thanks so much. 00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:09.000 Is that too much? Like am I putting on too much of the podcast voice there for you? 00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:14.700 Maybe a little bit, but we'll go ahead and roll with it and call it done. 00:05:14.700 --> 00:05:21.460 So, you know, Andy Mage is no stranger to the church digital or the podcast operations director for the church digital. 00:05:22.520 --> 00:05:26.840 He's currently the producer of the church digital podcast is the editing on the backside. 00:05:27.120 --> 00:05:31.300 In addition to that, he is featured on from text to testimony. 00:05:31.900 --> 00:05:36.460 He's featured and producing on hybrid disciple. 00:05:37.080 --> 00:05:40.720 What else are you doing right now? Is that it? Are you just two shows? 00:05:41.120 --> 00:05:46.760 Well, no, actually, we were recording and releasing something brand new with your friend of mine, John Pyle, 00:05:46.900 --> 00:05:51.720 calling called Common Religion, where we're actually taking deep dives into movies 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:58.280 and looking at kind of the lingua franca, the common language that people speak. 00:05:58.420 --> 00:06:02.500 We're revealing a lot of the spirituality behind things without actually talking about Christianity, 00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:04.300 which is very cool. 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:10.100 And also, John is just a wizard. He's like he's essentially one of those tops that you can just kind of pull the string 00:06:10.100 --> 00:06:14.400 and I can just interview him about something and then let him go for 45 minutes. 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:17.060 And he's perfectly fine just being himself. 00:06:17.180 --> 00:06:21.300 So that's going to be dropping mid, you know, within the next couple of weeks or so. 00:06:21.380 --> 00:06:23.540 Don't want to date or timestamp this or anything like that. 00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:26.680 On top of that, I'm also the creative pastor for Lux Digital Church. 00:06:26.720 --> 00:06:28.740 And so we're doing a whole lot of stuff over there as well. 00:06:29.140 --> 00:06:32.180 So I just I feel like most of my days I was having 20. 00:06:32.240 --> 00:06:34.160 I was having lunch with my grandmother who's down from Michigan. 00:06:34.380 --> 00:06:36.040 And she was like, how's the how's the new gig? 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:39.400 And I said, cool. I sit in front of cameras and talk to them most of the day. 00:06:39.400 --> 00:06:41.860 And I love it. I think it's it's fascinating. 00:06:42.140 --> 00:06:44.500 My lower back gets sore. I've got it. I'm getting old. 00:06:44.560 --> 00:06:47.260 I got to like get up and stretch around. I think I may have a disc. 00:06:47.400 --> 00:06:51.020 You know, it's it's you know, you're old when you're talking about like discs that may be out of place. 00:06:51.180 --> 00:06:57.900 The best thing that happened to my work and the best thing that happened to my work environment was the standing desk, the electric standing desk. 00:06:58.100 --> 00:07:01.820 And so I usually stand all morning. I'll work out in the morning and I'll stand and I'll have coffee. 00:07:01.820 --> 00:07:04.600 And then by afternoon, I'll sit for like two or three hours. 00:07:04.600 --> 00:07:06.480 So you might you might want to look into one of those. 00:07:07.620 --> 00:07:10.040 I'll I'll I'll check that out. But really good. 00:07:10.140 --> 00:07:13.540 So let's let's lean into this. By the way, John Pyle's podcast. 00:07:13.780 --> 00:07:18.240 I think he did one or two episodes on the poltergeist was freaking incredible. 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:20.940 And so I think he talked about this podcast on his show. 00:07:20.980 --> 00:07:22.820 So I can't wait to to explore that. 00:07:22.820 --> 00:07:28.000 But we can talk about John Pyle, Russian spam bot a later time. 00:07:29.040 --> 00:07:38.640 Instead, I want to lean into this new device that you happen to get your hands on the Apple Vision Pro Vision Pro Max. 00:07:38.740 --> 00:07:41.540 What is this thing actually called? I'm going to like date myself here. 00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:50.340 So if you are following the marketing guide, as us kind of quasi Apple nerds do, it is the Apple Vision Pro running Vision OS. 00:07:51.140 --> 00:07:56.020 And it is out as of right now. It's been out for less than a week as we're speaking. 00:07:56.360 --> 00:08:06.660 So this device out less than a week costs about thirty five hundred dollars, which is maybe thirty thousand dollars more than I was willing to throw down on the device. 00:08:06.660 --> 00:08:11.520 So I'm praying for the thousand dollar, five hundred dollar option to come sooner than later. 00:08:11.720 --> 00:08:15.860 And, you know, what's interesting is that, you know, I've seen Instagram. 00:08:16.260 --> 00:08:19.900 I've seen like friends that have it at the Apple store wearing it. 00:08:19.980 --> 00:08:25.240 I guess Apple's got displays of it now in different spots or doing roadshows or whatever with it. 00:08:25.640 --> 00:08:33.740 You know, I've seen the guys that are wearing the devices walking around New York City and, you know, whatever, being stupid, driving, trying to make that work. 00:08:34.700 --> 00:08:42.120 But I don't know anybody that's actually like had one or put one on specifically until I was in a meeting the other day. 00:08:42.180 --> 00:08:48.320 And Andy told me, oh, yeah, I had one on one of his friends and it happened to use it for for a period of time. 00:08:48.320 --> 00:08:50.380 And of course, I was like, well, I want to know what's going on. 00:08:50.380 --> 00:08:57.680 So, dude, you got you had your hands and you actually wore an Apple, Apple Pro, Apple Vision Pro. 00:08:58.420 --> 00:08:59.720 Talk to us a little bit about that. 00:09:00.160 --> 00:09:03.380 It is. So first off, I think I need to give a little bit of a background. 00:09:03.620 --> 00:09:06.600 I am mostly kind of an Apple nerd. 00:09:07.020 --> 00:09:11.720 I have it's just kind of been a thing for the last probably 10 or 15 years of my life. 00:09:12.340 --> 00:09:14.880 I am extremely interested in what Apple does. 00:09:14.980 --> 00:09:21.520 I'm not I wouldn't I'm I'm kind of a fanboy, although I also PC game and, you know, I like Android phones and all that. 00:09:21.580 --> 00:09:25.140 But but Apple in particular always has this this thing. 00:09:25.220 --> 00:09:26.900 They have this design ethos. 00:09:26.900 --> 00:09:28.520 And, yeah, everyone makes fun of them. 00:09:28.620 --> 00:09:33.440 And they talk about, oh, you're a sheep and, you know, you're the you're you're a follower and all that. 00:09:33.540 --> 00:09:34.580 And that might be true. 00:09:34.980 --> 00:09:39.380 But there's a thing that happens when you get an Apple product in your hand. 00:09:39.380 --> 00:09:44.400 And it's and it's something that Steve Jobs actually had in his design DNA. 00:09:44.760 --> 00:09:49.360 And I don't think I don't revere him as like, you know, King Jobs and all these other things. 00:09:49.640 --> 00:09:56.940 But one of the things that he did impart into particularly tech was the idea that when you peel something off, 00:09:57.040 --> 00:10:05.920 like when you peel off the cover of something, he and Johnny Ive had this had this this mantra that you want you want to add you want the inside to look as beautiful as the outside. 00:10:06.260 --> 00:10:11.740 And that led to a lot of things happening with Apple, particularly around the turn of the century, 00:10:11.840 --> 00:10:18.000 maybe a little bit before, you know, late late 90s ish, right when he came back from being at Next. 00:10:18.140 --> 00:10:22.540 He was you know, he started Apple and then got summarily dismissed from there. 00:10:22.700 --> 00:10:23.180 And then fired. 00:10:23.480 --> 00:10:24.080 Yeah, fired. 00:10:24.180 --> 00:10:28.560 And then Apple bought Pixar ish kind of I mean, there's a whole long story. 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:36.920 He came back and one of the one of the design principles that he said was the inside needs to be as beautiful as the outside and he hired engineers and he hired people to do all that. 00:10:37.060 --> 00:10:45.080 So fast forward about 30 years, we've gone through, you know, 17 different iterations of the iPhone, I think 18 different iterations of the iPhone. 00:10:45.080 --> 00:10:53.700 We've gone through nine or 10 different iterations of the iPad, we've got the Apple Watch, like 1000 things, 1000 different versions of them, MacBook Pros at the wazoo. 00:10:53.800 --> 00:11:00.780 And I love all of these things, not because of not because of the hardware, necessarily, because it's not the strongest hardware. 00:11:01.160 --> 00:11:04.160 It just everything just does kind of seamlessly fit together. 00:11:04.160 --> 00:11:11.620 And it's a it's a miracle how the inside of the hardware mimics the inside of the software and how everything just is beautiful. 00:11:11.620 --> 00:11:14.380 Like you pull open a MacBook Pro and it's beautiful. 00:11:14.620 --> 00:11:16.120 It speaks to me. 00:11:16.300 --> 00:11:25.340 And so when they started talking about the Apple Vision Pro back at WWDC of 2023, I I'm not like necessarily a VR guy. 00:11:25.420 --> 00:11:26.720 I have a I have a Quest 2. 00:11:26.840 --> 00:11:27.860 I played around with a Quest 3. 00:11:27.860 --> 00:11:33.480 I think you have a Quest 2 like sitting behind you as well and one of your displays VR is it's it's OK. 00:11:33.740 --> 00:11:36.700 Like it's not it's not like a it's not a life's journey for me. 00:11:36.800 --> 00:11:42.960 I'm not like, you know, Stu, who we love Stu, by the way, here at the Church Digital, but not like him. 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.720 Like I'm not I'm not I'm not seeking to install churches in VR. 00:11:45.840 --> 00:11:48.820 Just I kind of like playing Beat Saber and I like hanging out and shooting things. 00:11:49.580 --> 00:11:53.680 Well, WWDC 2023 rolls around and they introduced the Apple Vision Pro. 00:11:53.680 --> 00:12:00.560 And I was I was intrigued more so because I thought it looked ridiculous, looked like a big pair of glass ski goggles. 00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:01.840 And I was like, oh, I find you. 00:12:01.840 --> 00:12:02.620 There's no controllers. 00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:05.140 Gaming is going to be kind of tough on this whole thing. 00:12:06.140 --> 00:12:08.040 And then more and more reviews started coming out of it. 00:12:08.220 --> 00:12:12.620 And particularly within the last two or three weeks, the zeitgeist has been high on this thing. 00:12:13.140 --> 00:12:21.660 And it's it got in the hands of some notable tech reviewers, some guys that I follow in particular, Marcus Marquez Brownlee, MKBHD on YouTube. 00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:22.760 He's he's brilliant. 00:12:23.020 --> 00:12:25.820 Like, you know, a lot of people think he's dumbed down all of his reviews. 00:12:25.940 --> 00:12:26.120 No, no. 00:12:26.400 --> 00:12:29.460 This is like the first Apple product he's been excited about in years. 00:12:29.600 --> 00:12:33.240 And then, you know, guys like Casey Neistat are putting this thing on a walking through New York. 00:12:33.240 --> 00:12:35.040 And I'm like, huh, this is fascinating. 00:12:35.100 --> 00:12:36.100 I want to get my hands on one. 00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:37.260 And so, yes, you're right. 00:12:37.300 --> 00:12:41.540 I had a friend who allowed me to use it for at length. 00:12:42.060 --> 00:12:49.000 And I must say it is everything that you would think an Apple product would be. 00:12:49.060 --> 00:12:50.200 It is beautiful. 00:12:50.460 --> 00:12:52.980 It really it is a work of art. 00:12:53.080 --> 00:13:00.120 The way that the curved glass on the outside feels the weight, even it's made of, you know, there's plastic interior. 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:06.980 But the glass on the outside, the way it cups around your eyes and your head, you know, it could be uncomfortable at first. 00:13:06.980 --> 00:13:10.280 But then you size it right and you get the right light seal and you get the right everything. 00:13:10.280 --> 00:13:11.400 And it just clicks. 00:13:11.800 --> 00:13:14.120 You know, it's just one of the things that just clicks. 00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:17.560 And it's the weight of it is kind of weird. 00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:22.580 And, you know, there's a battery pack that you got to put in your in your in your pant in your pocket, not in your pants, in your pocket. 00:13:22.580 --> 00:13:24.940 And, you know, it's it's weird. 00:13:25.200 --> 00:13:25.520 Right. 00:13:25.900 --> 00:13:30.020 But then you start to use it and you go, this is fascinating. 00:13:30.520 --> 00:13:32.180 It's not it's not the best product in the world. 00:13:32.240 --> 00:13:33.260 It's I don't think it's the best. 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:36.500 It's probably the best VR display out there from what I've used. 00:13:36.660 --> 00:13:41.400 It's definitely not a product that I would want to use for longer than 45 minutes to an hour. 00:13:41.520 --> 00:13:43.340 Honestly, it's kind of a pain in the butt. 00:13:43.500 --> 00:13:46.040 You do have to put a battery bank in your pocket. 00:13:46.040 --> 00:13:47.120 You do have it. 00:13:47.120 --> 00:13:51.300 It does get a little heavy if you if you don't have it pushed on your face properly. 00:13:51.920 --> 00:13:55.120 And we can talk more about controls and about the whole thing in just a little bit. 00:13:55.320 --> 00:14:03.780 But but the the core conceit of what the Apple Vision Pro is, is that it's essentially a gigantic wearable iPad for your face. 00:14:04.400 --> 00:14:06.960 And it's fascinating to me. 00:14:07.480 --> 00:14:08.460 That's that's incredible. 00:14:08.460 --> 00:14:17.040 Like the the fact that they were able to to pull together that seamlessness that you're describing, how the Apple hardware and the software works together on version one. 00:14:17.160 --> 00:14:25.720 I was really nervous and I didn't want to drop thirty five hundred on on V1, knowing that V2, you know, they'd work out the kinks and the bugs towards that. 00:14:25.780 --> 00:14:27.420 But this this sounds great. 00:14:27.840 --> 00:14:47.020 Now, I do want to get into, you know, let's let's get into like Apple software, what comes with it, like is there, you know, I know you can do FaceTime and you and I had a conversation about FaceTime, about what that looks like with with the headset, the augmented reality approach that it's taking. 00:14:47.020 --> 00:14:52.240 And but maybe start to dig into maybe some of the basic functionalities that comes with it out of the box. 00:14:52.800 --> 00:14:57.280 Yeah, this is not a review, by the way, because I have not had any time to do a review. 00:14:57.340 --> 00:15:01.620 I'd love to become a tech reviewer at some point because I'm just I'm kind of a tech nerd along with all this stuff. 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:04.400 But when the first thing you put it on, oh, you're a nerd. 00:15:05.260 --> 00:15:07.900 I mean, yeah, you're you're not wrong there. 00:15:08.660 --> 00:15:09.520 Truth. Yeah. 00:15:09.880 --> 00:15:11.280 Yeah. But so are you. 00:15:11.420 --> 00:15:13.500 And it's OK. Like we're in we're in comfortable space here. 00:15:14.300 --> 00:15:21.460 The second you put it on, it wants to scan your eyes because it's all based on eye tracking. 00:15:21.660 --> 00:15:32.400 It's called, you know, there's there's a thing called foveated rendering in there where it's following your eyes and it's rendering out the pixels that your eyes are following more than the pixels that are in your in your periphery. 00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:33.800 And it does that for processing reasons. 00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:41.280 But it also actually if you think about the way that your eyes work when you're focusing on something in front of you, everything kind of blurs off to the side. 00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:43.260 And that's a processing power of your brain thing as well. 00:15:43.340 --> 00:15:46.100 It's it's it's kind of cool how it mimics it scans your eyes. 00:15:46.100 --> 00:15:48.400 It then uses your eyes as kind of your face ID. 00:15:48.640 --> 00:15:50.420 It is retina ID, I think is what it's called. 00:15:51.300 --> 00:15:53.680 Eye ID, something along those lines, which is pretty cool. 00:15:54.400 --> 00:15:55.780 So it does all of those things. 00:15:55.860 --> 00:16:02.320 And then the way it wants you to control is just simply using your hand and you use your hand. 00:16:02.480 --> 00:16:07.700 And when you want to do something, you look at it and then you pinch your fingers together. 00:16:08.440 --> 00:16:11.400 And the first couple of times you do it, you're like, this is stupid. 00:16:11.780 --> 00:16:13.940 I look I must look ridiculous. 00:16:14.940 --> 00:16:26.940 And then you start to get the hang of it and you start to pinch and grab a grab a safari page and toss that safari page up and it scrolls and it's seamless scrolling. 00:16:27.080 --> 00:16:29.940 You know, it's got I think it's 120, 120 hertz refresh. 00:16:30.080 --> 00:16:31.900 So there's no like weird jelly scrolling. 00:16:32.140 --> 00:16:34.440 You don't feel queasy or anything like that. 00:16:34.460 --> 00:16:36.160 And you pinch and you push things. 00:16:36.180 --> 00:16:42.860 Or if you want to like you want to move a volume slider up and down, you you look at it, you pinch it and you just move it left and right. 00:16:42.860 --> 00:16:49.320 And the way it works, again, is fascinating because you go, this is probably not the most efficient way of doing it. 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:54.220 Like the meta, the meta quest, the Oculus quest, whatever it's called, the meta quest two and three have hand controllers. 00:16:54.460 --> 00:16:58.240 You know, pretty much every VR headset has hand some sort of controller you put in your hand. 00:16:58.280 --> 00:16:59.180 And it's very accurate. 00:16:59.180 --> 00:17:04.940 And like I wouldn't want a game or play Beat Saber or anything like that with my hands because I feel like it would be very unwieldy. 00:17:05.740 --> 00:17:15.560 But when you're just doing productivity stuff, like when you sit down and you put the goggles on and you look at your Mac and it tells you, hey, I want to mirror your Mac screen. 00:17:15.560 --> 00:17:21.620 And then you pull your Mac screen up in front of you and you've all of a sudden has this huge 4K screen in front of you. 00:17:22.120 --> 00:17:26.860 And then you click the little button, which allows you to get immersive or not immersive. 00:17:26.860 --> 00:17:32.360 You click the little crown and a couple of apps pop up and you say, all right, I want my I want another Safari window over here. 00:17:32.520 --> 00:17:34.900 And then I want my Apple Music window over here. 00:17:35.220 --> 00:17:37.320 Oh, I want to put my messages window up there. 00:17:38.000 --> 00:17:40.780 And maybe I want to be in the desert at some point. 00:17:40.860 --> 00:17:45.860 You turn the thing and then you're completely enveloped in the desert somewhere. 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:49.840 You hear like the wind whistling and kind of this ambient thing. 00:17:50.180 --> 00:17:52.040 And I'm now staring at my Mac. 00:17:52.380 --> 00:17:59.600 My my I have two monitors here, but I'm staring at the biggest monitor that I have and I can move that thing back and forth and left and right and up and down. 00:17:59.600 --> 00:18:05.000 And I'm getting my messages over here and I'm listening to Apple Music through the spatial headphones and I'm doing. 00:18:05.220 --> 00:18:07.660 I have another Safari window if I want it over here. 00:18:07.660 --> 00:18:21.180 And it's extremely extravagant and it's it's a it's a it's a masterpiece of interoperability because literally now I'm operating my Mac with my keyboard and my trackpad and my mouse, but I'm also operating the Vision Pro. 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:30.760 And then I spin that button again and then I'm looking at my office again and I'm looking at my lights and my camera and I will adjust something here and then I'll spin the thing, the digital crown again and then I'm back in the desert. 00:18:30.760 --> 00:18:34.440 And again, the way it all works is fascinating. 00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:45.040 And the biggest takeaway that I had from that is it's extremely easy to get lost in what you're doing because of the immersiveness of it is the field of view bad. 00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:45.600 Yeah, sure. 00:18:45.740 --> 00:18:48.240 I mean, it literally feels like you're just wearing goggles. 00:18:48.420 --> 00:18:52.880 And for those watching on YouTube, like I'm holding my hands over my eyes and that's about the field of view. 00:18:52.980 --> 00:18:54.280 It's a they call binocular view. 00:18:54.560 --> 00:18:57.760 Like that's what it feels like you're you're you're in a bunch of binoculars. 00:18:57.900 --> 00:19:00.380 And is it worth three to thirty five hundred dollars? 00:19:00.460 --> 00:19:01.440 No, absolutely not. 00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:03.340 Like not at least not for me and not for Jeff. 00:19:03.400 --> 00:19:04.640 Like we're we're pastors. 00:19:04.740 --> 00:19:05.860 We don't have a whole ton of money. 00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:07.220 It's not worth it for us. 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:18.320 But, you know, for somebody that's going to be flying on an airplane that wants to work in perfect privacy with their laptop or who wants to watch a movie like an immersive movie on an airplane or something. 00:19:18.840 --> 00:19:19.240 Absolutely. 00:19:19.560 --> 00:19:20.320 If they have the money. 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.040 Absolutely. 00:19:21.300 --> 00:19:21.860 Go for it. 00:19:22.020 --> 00:19:27.820 Now, have you ever done any work productivity devices other than Apple's or this was kind of like your first stab in. 00:19:27.900 --> 00:19:29.060 In the virtual type stuff. 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:35.160 I've done virtual desktop stuff with the MetaQuest 2 via a link cable to my PC. 00:19:35.300 --> 00:19:36.900 It doesn't work with Mac yet. 00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:39.580 I mean, it kind of does, but it's it's bad. 00:19:39.700 --> 00:19:42.460 But I've done it with my PC and it's it's weird. 00:19:42.600 --> 00:19:48.180 Like so I after after we were done with the Vision Pro and I gave it back to the friend and all that. 00:19:49.600 --> 00:20:04.780 I put my MetaQuest on and it was it was essentially like what happened when like you got done watching a flat screen TV for the first time and then you went back to your old CRT monitor or like that big gigantic wooden cabinet to play Nintendo. 00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:08.060 And you just saw how big and nasty and gross the pixels were. 00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:09.400 It was essentially like that. 00:20:09.500 --> 00:20:13.800 Like it felt like I was stepping back in time when I put that thing on it. 00:20:14.940 --> 00:20:22.320 The MetaQuest 2 is very, very bad at remote desktop stuff, but it's also a five year old product or a six year old product or whatever it is. 00:20:22.440 --> 00:20:22.560 Yeah. 00:20:23.940 --> 00:20:26.880 Well, there I mean, at some levels are even phasing out to two at this point. 00:20:26.940 --> 00:20:29.360 I know the three is my two is actually broken. 00:20:29.480 --> 00:20:35.140 What I've got behind me is actually a one, which is, you know, DOA at this point, legacy it out. 00:20:35.300 --> 00:20:39.500 But the two is the got got broken. 00:20:39.640 --> 00:20:40.640 I think my son dropped it. 00:20:40.680 --> 00:20:43.200 I'm not actually sure how it broke, but it just magically broke one day. 00:20:43.600 --> 00:20:46.300 And then I didn't get real upset. 00:20:46.760 --> 00:20:52.780 But and then the three I've I'll probably honestly I'll probably end up buying the three just because I want a VR headset. 00:20:52.780 --> 00:20:58.800 And I well, Apple is just just a little out of range, I believe, for now. 00:20:58.900 --> 00:21:05.980 But, you know, with the two, I really didn't ever get into much augmented reality type stuff. 00:21:06.900 --> 00:21:15.820 You know, like the the meta, the one and the two on the MetaQuest is it closes off reality and it creates its own. 00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:19.400 And so like you're playing Beat Saber and doing that. 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:26.840 You're you're going into worlds like VR chat or rec room completely independent. 00:21:27.100 --> 00:21:28.060 You know, it's interesting. 00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:29.260 I'm going to go off on a tangent here. 00:21:29.360 --> 00:21:34.240 I actually spoke last night for a Canadian Bible school. 00:21:35.080 --> 00:21:36.240 This was fascinating to me. 00:21:36.280 --> 00:21:40.840 It was was like college Bible school up in Canada, somewhere way up north. 00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:42.100 I can't I don't remember the name of the school. 00:21:42.100 --> 00:21:45.240 I don't remember the name of the where it was at. 00:21:46.500 --> 00:21:50.560 But I asked in the class, I said, hey, how many of you have ever put on a headset? 00:21:51.640 --> 00:21:53.400 Ninety percent of these kids put on a headset. 00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.960 I couldn't believe the ratio. 00:21:56.120 --> 00:22:04.900 Like, I don't know if there's more Canadians in using virtual reality than Americans, but like it's just just a pure ratio of kids are like, yeah, I've used I use virtual reality. 00:22:04.980 --> 00:22:06.320 I was like, tell me some of the stories. 00:22:06.380 --> 00:22:07.100 What are you guys doing? 00:22:07.540 --> 00:22:08.200 Where are you going? 00:22:08.580 --> 00:22:12.960 And everybody's using like Beat Saber for it for like cardio, but and some other stuff, too. 00:22:14.100 --> 00:22:15.440 Does that does the. 00:22:17.060 --> 00:22:31.360 The augmented reality aspects of what Apple's done seems to be really impressive to me, like to me, I get more excited about augmented and virtual virtual, I think, is really going to hit its lid because it blinds people to reality. 00:22:31.360 --> 00:22:33.520 People don't want to be blinded to the physical reality. 00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:35.080 They want to make it better. 00:22:35.620 --> 00:22:37.380 They want to add on top of it. 00:22:37.540 --> 00:22:46.360 And so to me, I was really curious what that experience was, seeing things added to the physical reality. 00:22:46.360 --> 00:22:51.660 Like what were some tangible things Apple's doing right now to augment the physical reality around us? 00:22:51.660 --> 00:23:08.620 I think it's that's actually the most fascinating thing is the reaction that people had to the initial VR wave that was back in what 2012 2013 when Parker What's-His-Face released the first Oculus and then the whole thing kind of blew up. 00:23:09.560 --> 00:23:15.000 That that that was very much we're closing you off, you're living in this world, you're doing this whole thing. 00:23:15.020 --> 00:23:18.380 And I think what people started to realize is that I can't do that for very long. 00:23:18.380 --> 00:23:24.200 Like innately, I can't be closed off, I can go I can go sit in my mom's basement and play video games for a while. 00:23:24.200 --> 00:23:27.200 But even then, like I have that I have spatial awareness that that people are around me. 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:35.060 And I remember the Quest 2 had, they call it pass through, it had pass through, but it was really grainy and kind of black and white. 00:23:35.060 --> 00:23:37.260 And like mine doesn't work very well anymore. 00:23:37.260 --> 00:23:38.140 Oh, yeah, it was horrible. 00:23:38.580 --> 00:23:39.540 Yeah, it was. 00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:40.820 I mean, you couldn't read your phone. 00:23:41.400 --> 00:23:50.200 The most interesting thing that they did with this is, you're absolutely right, the augmented reality, they call it XR or something like that, extra reality, but essentially it's augmented reality. 00:23:51.340 --> 00:23:52.660 A couple, it's not perfect. 00:23:52.780 --> 00:23:53.600 It's definitely not perfect. 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:56.540 The cameras on the thing are not nearly bright enough. 00:23:56.540 --> 00:24:00.560 And so if you're in, like in the areas that I was using it, it was kind of dark. 00:24:01.580 --> 00:24:09.240 And it, and you know what happens when you turn up the ISO of a camera in a dark room, it gets grainy, it gets real noisy and artifact-y. 00:24:09.740 --> 00:24:16.960 I could, I tried to pull up my phone and read it and I could sometimes read it, but there's a weird sort of spatial bending that's happening. 00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:24.280 And, and so I, I'm like trying to interact with my phone or trying to interact with my watch and, you know, it was, it was fine. 00:24:24.360 --> 00:24:25.260 It was passable. 00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:34.900 The, the thing really though, that is really interesting is that you can, so outside of the Mac pass through, which we can talk to, I'd talk about ad nauseum. 00:24:34.900 --> 00:24:40.380 I think that's one of the biggest features, one of the biggest selling features here is that when you pull up an app. 00:24:40.380 --> 00:24:44.560 So let's say, you know, Joanna Stern from the wall street journal, she's brilliant reviewer. 00:24:44.560 --> 00:24:49.480 She reviewed where she was cooking with this thing, which I think is, seems terrible. 00:24:50.040 --> 00:24:54.080 Uh, she was cooking with this thing and she set a timer over a pot and then put it there. 00:24:54.160 --> 00:24:56.780 And then she set a timer over another pot and put it there. 00:24:56.980 --> 00:25:04.020 And so she was watching these timers over these pots and they were different times and she was able to grab the one when it was up and watch the other one. 00:25:04.020 --> 00:25:05.620 And I thought that was like, Oh, that's pretty cool. 00:25:06.480 --> 00:25:10.300 And so I was at, I was, I was kind of demoing this thing and I was walking around with it. 00:25:10.500 --> 00:25:15.600 And, uh, I put, um, I've been watching the show called slow horses on Apple TV plus great show. 00:25:15.720 --> 00:25:16.660 Highly recommend it. 00:25:16.820 --> 00:25:18.460 Uh, it's this like mystery spy thriller. 00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:29.500 And so I pulled it up and I pushed it, I was out in my kind of my kitchen area and I pushed it out into the dining room, pushed like the theater out into the dining room and it was just sitting there. 00:25:29.500 --> 00:25:35.420 And so the literal image of the video, like the move, the, the video itself, like it, think of like cinema screen. 00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:36.440 I did it. 00:25:36.520 --> 00:25:37.280 You pinch the bottom. 00:25:37.440 --> 00:25:42.560 There's like a little line that comes up almost like at the bottom of your iPhone where you get that little line there. 00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:48.560 Uh, you look at that line, you grab that line and you just push it or pull it depending on where you want. 00:25:48.600 --> 00:25:49.720 Or move it left and right. 00:25:50.100 --> 00:25:51.420 And so I, it was too close. 00:25:51.680 --> 00:25:54.040 And so I grabbed it and this was all like, I didn't think about this. 00:25:54.060 --> 00:25:54.620 I just did it. 00:25:54.940 --> 00:25:55.760 I grabbed it. 00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:57.540 I picked it up and I pushed it backwards. 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:05.200 And so now I'm looking out at my Island where our sink is and I'm doing dishes and I'm watching the show that is back by our dining room table. 00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:06.940 And I thought, that's pretty cool. 00:26:07.240 --> 00:26:13.500 And then I walked over to like, go put some dishes away and the thing stayed there. 00:26:13.700 --> 00:26:21.120 And I turned my head and because of spatial audio, I, it, it felt like I could hear like the whole thing was turning. 00:26:21.120 --> 00:26:25.960 Like I could hear it from where it was coming from, which was like, okay, that's also cool. 00:26:26.100 --> 00:26:27.040 So I put the dishes away. 00:26:27.100 --> 00:26:30.200 I crouched down, put some dishes down and then stood back up and turned back around. 00:26:30.320 --> 00:26:32.300 And it was still there, had not moved. 00:26:32.340 --> 00:26:33.360 Like there was not a glitch. 00:26:33.380 --> 00:26:36.980 It was still playing at 60 frames a second at, or 24 frames a second or whatever it was. 00:26:37.620 --> 00:26:39.880 And then I, I was like, I wanted to try something. 00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:41.220 And so I opened a couple other windows. 00:26:41.220 --> 00:26:43.640 And so I put like an Apple music window kind of off to the side. 00:26:43.700 --> 00:26:46.580 I put it like out in our living room and it was just kind of floating there doing its thing. 00:26:46.660 --> 00:26:47.320 It wasn't playing. 00:26:47.420 --> 00:26:48.400 It's just, I wanted to see what happened. 00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:52.380 Put my messages like off in the hallway and I walked over to them. 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:55.700 I walked literally up to the screen where slow horses was playing. 00:26:56.020 --> 00:27:01.680 And then I turned and I walked probably 20 feet over to where the messages app was. 00:27:02.240 --> 00:27:03.820 And I typed in there. 00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:08.580 I kind of, I, you know, you can hand dictate or, you know, you can poke your finger in there or do some other stuff. 00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:10.860 And then I turned around and I walked back over to Apple music. 00:27:11.060 --> 00:27:14.640 And, and it was just this, like, these things are floating in space. 00:27:15.100 --> 00:27:16.200 Nobody else sees them. 00:27:16.680 --> 00:27:17.380 I do. 00:27:17.540 --> 00:27:22.320 I have this augmented reality here where I am the master of this universe. 00:27:22.780 --> 00:27:27.340 And it was, and it was mind blowing the way, and this is again, the interoperability. 00:27:27.560 --> 00:27:31.760 It was mind blowing the way that all of Apple services just knew what to do. 00:27:31.900 --> 00:27:33.460 They had me signed in. 00:27:33.700 --> 00:27:36.800 They knew exactly where I had left off in, in the show on my iPad. 00:27:36.800 --> 00:27:39.860 When I was on the Peloton earlier, they knew all of my messages. 00:27:39.860 --> 00:27:44.120 They knew who I was talking to and they knew where I was in my last Apple music playlist. 00:27:44.200 --> 00:27:46.760 Like it was, it was mind blowing Jeff. 00:27:46.820 --> 00:27:49.800 And like for $3,500 again, I keep going back to that. 00:27:49.800 --> 00:27:52.280 Like the price is too much, but maybe for a thousand dollars. 00:27:52.780 --> 00:27:56.980 Well, I mean, in what you're even describing, you don't, you don't need a TV anymore because 00:27:56.980 --> 00:28:02.520 you, everything that's online and Apple store is now available through, through the headset. 00:28:03.520 --> 00:28:07.960 And so that $1,500 you're going to spend on a Samsung, well, you're probably not going 00:28:07.960 --> 00:28:11.600 to spend that much on a Samsung, but the point being is all of a sudden you start to throw 00:28:11.600 --> 00:28:12.760 some other devices in. 00:28:14.120 --> 00:28:19.780 Now that quantifies or that multiplies very quickly as I've got a family of four wife and 00:28:19.780 --> 00:28:20.300 two kids. 00:28:20.620 --> 00:28:24.620 And so, you know, now I'm, I'm spending 3,500 times four. 00:28:24.860 --> 00:28:28.360 So we all can watch, you know, I don't, I don't know what just came out. 00:28:28.440 --> 00:28:29.940 Oh, we just watched the Marvels last night. 00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:34.780 And so, so we all can watch the, you know, the Marvels on Disney plus, um, and you know, 00:28:34.800 --> 00:28:41.680 and there's, um, that's, that's a real, it's $14,000 worth of, of Apple glass, uh, to, uh, 00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.800 to make, to make that happen. 00:28:42.800 --> 00:28:48.680 And that's, that's well beyond the pastor's budgets, um, along with, with others. 00:28:48.680 --> 00:28:54.940 But that's, that's a, um, you know, I got to believe that this is step one of, of a multiple 00:28:54.940 --> 00:28:57.240 step plan on Apple's part. 00:28:57.240 --> 00:29:00.200 So I'm excited to, to see what's, what's coming from this. 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:04.720 Did you actually, you know, one of the things that when we talk about, you know, Stuart talks 00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:10.100 so much about this church and virtual reality, it's, it's communication, it's, it's building 00:29:10.100 --> 00:29:16.600 relationships, friendships, it's, you know, sitting around the campfire, got, um, um, all 00:29:16.600 --> 00:29:22.300 space, God bless it, or, you know, hanging out in, in rec room at, at a, at a coffee house 00:29:22.300 --> 00:29:24.900 or, uh, going to a bar at VR chat. 00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:29.680 Um, but it's, it's relationships, it's, it's dialoguing with that. 00:29:29.800 --> 00:29:36.640 I was actually surprised, uh, Apple hasn't, didn't release any, any virtual community aspects 00:29:36.640 --> 00:29:39.020 in this device or nothing that, that I know of. 00:29:39.600 --> 00:29:44.520 Um, is, is there any community built into version one of this? 00:29:44.520 --> 00:29:48.420 Like what, what are the communication tools that are available for the vision pro? 00:29:48.600 --> 00:29:49.940 That's a, that's a great question. 00:29:49.940 --> 00:29:52.700 And honestly, it's something I think they're getting dinged on a little bit. 00:29:52.700 --> 00:30:00.420 Um, they, Apple has repeatedly rebuffed the chance to build some sort of quote unquote social 00:30:00.420 --> 00:30:01.840 network that they could have done. 00:30:02.020 --> 00:30:06.740 I think I personally, I think they might see it as a little below them, which is what was 00:30:06.740 --> 00:30:08.420 the iTunes one that was around. 00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:08.920 Yeah. 00:30:08.920 --> 00:30:12.280 There was iTunes connect or iTunes share. 00:30:13.120 --> 00:30:16.520 Um, oh my gosh, that was horrible. 00:30:16.660 --> 00:30:17.340 It was horrible. 00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:17.820 Yeah. 00:30:17.840 --> 00:30:19.960 It was essentially a glorified comment. 00:30:20.040 --> 00:30:22.040 A blog post comment is what it was. 00:30:22.620 --> 00:30:23.240 Um, right. 00:30:23.680 --> 00:30:25.820 And tied to whatever was coming off of iTunes. 00:30:26.040 --> 00:30:26.280 Yeah. 00:30:26.280 --> 00:30:26.480 But go ahead. 00:30:26.500 --> 00:30:26.840 I'm sorry. 00:30:27.000 --> 00:30:27.200 I'm fine. 00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:27.460 No, no, no. 00:30:27.520 --> 00:30:29.160 And that, like that, that's what I mean. 00:30:29.160 --> 00:30:31.960 Like I, I, they tried and they got, it was bad. 00:30:32.420 --> 00:30:35.020 And I think they kind of see that as that's what Facebook does. 00:30:35.020 --> 00:30:41.040 And that's what, you remember Google tried Google one, no Google plus, I think, uh, 00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:44.620 Google plus, yeah, whatever their circles were and they tried it and they killed it. 00:30:44.620 --> 00:30:46.920 Cause Google just kills things randomly. 00:30:47.300 --> 00:30:50.040 Uh, also Google plus was bad, but you know, that's what Facebook does. 00:30:50.080 --> 00:30:51.940 That's what Twitter does or X or whatever we're calling it. 00:30:51.940 --> 00:30:53.860 That's what, you know, Mastodon and all those do. 00:30:54.320 --> 00:30:56.840 Um, that's what, that's what those things do. 00:30:56.880 --> 00:30:57.780 That's not what Apple does. 00:30:57.820 --> 00:30:58.680 We are above that. 00:30:58.680 --> 00:31:02.380 We are a, uh, software as a service company and all, you know, like that type. 00:31:02.420 --> 00:31:04.040 And whatever that's elitism. 00:31:04.040 --> 00:31:06.740 And I, that's the part of Apple that I absolutely hate. 00:31:06.740 --> 00:31:11.640 And that's the, that's the part that people really glom onto, which I get past that. 00:31:12.080 --> 00:31:18.840 But the, the, the, the communication piece that's built into it is, uh, twofold. 00:31:18.840 --> 00:31:20.820 Number one, you create this thing called a persona. 00:31:21.340 --> 00:31:22.480 Uh, it's still in beta. 00:31:22.480 --> 00:31:25.220 I didn't really, I, when I had it, I didn't have it for mine. 00:31:25.320 --> 00:31:26.760 The one that I had for too long. 00:31:27.280 --> 00:31:33.760 Um, I had it enough to create a persona and it, it's essentially creating a, um, like a 00:31:33.760 --> 00:31:35.160 memoji of you. 00:31:35.420 --> 00:31:39.120 Uh, and everybody knows emoji from, memoji from their phone, except it, it's a little more 00:31:39.120 --> 00:31:39.580 lifelike. 00:31:39.820 --> 00:31:41.960 Uh, it feels a little bit more real. 00:31:41.960 --> 00:31:47.180 And, and, you know, Apple, Apple's fascinating the way that they do tech, uh, more so than like 00:31:47.180 --> 00:31:51.220 Microsoft who throws a bunch of stuff at the wall and says like, okay, businesses pick 00:31:51.220 --> 00:31:51.540 something. 00:31:51.620 --> 00:31:53.540 Gamers pick something, Xbox pick something. 00:31:53.540 --> 00:31:57.880 And like, they're kind of, and we can talk, we can talk tech news all we want, but like 00:31:57.880 --> 00:32:02.720 they're reaping the benefit or the rewards of that in the business sector, but also in 00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:05.640 the gaming sector, they're losing big time because they just threw a bunch of crap at 00:32:05.640 --> 00:32:07.900 the wall and Sony had like a focused thing. 00:32:07.980 --> 00:32:08.840 So that's gaming. 00:32:09.100 --> 00:32:11.320 Apple kind of does the same thing that Sony has been doing. 00:32:11.420 --> 00:32:15.100 Like, yeah, we might get beat in this quarter or we, we, we, we might be getting this product, 00:32:15.280 --> 00:32:19.140 uh, beaten in this product cycle, but over time, all of the things that we learned, we're 00:32:19.140 --> 00:32:19.960 going to implement them. 00:32:20.240 --> 00:32:21.500 Apple did Memoji. 00:32:21.600 --> 00:32:25.940 They did the AR VR stuff 10, you know, eight years ago with our LIDAR scans, scanners and 00:32:25.940 --> 00:32:29.700 their iPads, you know, they've built all of these things on top of each other. 00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:33.740 And now we have this amazing weird piece of glass that you put on your head. 00:32:34.200 --> 00:32:39.280 And inside of that, you have these personas that are built on Memoji technology that move 00:32:39.280 --> 00:32:41.880 with your face and they, they respond to your eyes. 00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:45.440 They respond to your facial features, but they don't have realistic hair. 00:32:45.820 --> 00:32:47.920 And so the hair just kind of feels like Lego hair. 00:32:48.340 --> 00:32:50.000 Uh, your beard doesn't move. 00:32:50.000 --> 00:32:52.980 Like you're, uh, you, you're wearing the same shirt. 00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:56.300 It's essentially from like your collarbone up, if you can think of it, maybe a little bit 00:32:56.300 --> 00:32:56.660 lower. 00:32:57.260 --> 00:33:00.220 Um, and so you're always wearing the same shirt forever. 00:33:00.540 --> 00:33:04.780 And unless you redo your persona, which I guess you can do, I've not, I didn't get a chance 00:33:04.780 --> 00:33:05.300 to do that. 00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:08.680 Um, and it's, it looks a little kind of uncanny Valley. 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:12.620 Like you, you definitely look like one of the animatronics from Disney at that point. 00:33:13.120 --> 00:33:16.340 Um, so there's all those things happening there. 00:33:16.580 --> 00:33:21.200 And then when you want to FaceTime somebody in a, they're on their phone, they, they see 00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:22.800 your persona. 00:33:22.940 --> 00:33:26.560 They don't see you because obviously that's like got an Ironman visor thing happening. 00:33:26.940 --> 00:33:28.460 Uh, that'd be way too close. 00:33:28.520 --> 00:33:33.800 They don't see, they see your persona and you can see this actual entire person, which is 00:33:33.800 --> 00:33:34.760 cool. 00:33:35.160 --> 00:33:37.020 So there's, there's that built into it. 00:33:37.060 --> 00:33:39.960 There's also, you know, your iMessage and your regular texting that are built in. 00:33:40.120 --> 00:33:44.580 Um, Microsoft just released teams for Apple vision pro. 00:33:44.740 --> 00:33:46.400 Uh, I haven't seen how it works yet. 00:33:46.540 --> 00:33:48.720 Um, that zoom is working on something as well. 00:33:48.880 --> 00:33:53.640 You know, if you think about it, it's really a productivity and entertainment thing. 00:33:53.640 --> 00:33:56.840 It's not necessarily a community focused thing just yet. 00:33:56.920 --> 00:33:58.800 Uh, you know, rec room is not available yet. 00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:01.640 Um, Apple was talking about game. 00:34:01.820 --> 00:34:04.340 Somebody released something called game room, I think is what it's called. 00:34:04.340 --> 00:34:08.580 And it's trying to be rec room, but it's going to be extremely difficult because Apple doesn't 00:34:08.580 --> 00:34:10.600 really let you do anything with the personas. 00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:15.640 Like they don't, you know, pornography is one of the biggest things in the world. 00:34:15.640 --> 00:34:19.320 And Apple, I think is afraid that they're going to use, they're going to have their personas 00:34:19.320 --> 00:34:24.480 doing things that are, you know, not what Apple wants their personas to be doing. 00:34:24.480 --> 00:34:28.520 And so I just, I think that's probably if I could read into it a little bit. 00:34:28.920 --> 00:34:34.140 Um, and then the regular communication tools of Safari and email and all of that stuff. 00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:36.220 Again, very version one right now. 00:34:36.700 --> 00:34:36.840 Yeah. 00:34:36.920 --> 00:34:38.360 It'll be, it'll be interesting. 00:34:38.480 --> 00:34:44.300 The, the community aspects of it, um, uh, or whether Apple actually does it. 00:34:44.300 --> 00:34:44.900 It was funny. 00:34:45.000 --> 00:34:51.740 I remember when, uh, when all space VR shut down, um, Stu was, was actually really pushing. 00:34:51.740 --> 00:34:56.740 And he said this several times also that he thought Apple was going to acquire all space 00:34:56.740 --> 00:34:59.960 and integrate that into, um, to, to the headset. 00:35:00.680 --> 00:35:05.900 Um, I, you know, I've, whether it's a social media network or a community or whatever, I, I, 00:35:06.040 --> 00:35:11.140 I think Apple's missing something here in, in the community aspect. 00:35:11.240 --> 00:35:15.960 Several people I've heard Mark, uh, lament about the lack of, of controllers really for 00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:17.620 gaming and making that. 00:35:18.160 --> 00:35:23.600 Um, and so if, if Apple's not going to step into the space, man, I, I believe it's, uh, 00:35:23.600 --> 00:35:24.880 an opportunity for third party. 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:29.060 Uh, you know, and, and as Apple gets more comfortable with, with opening up their SDK 00:35:29.060 --> 00:35:34.840 software development kits and, um, and, and allowing more, uh, functionality, you know, 00:35:34.840 --> 00:35:41.120 I think we're going to, to see some big winners, you know, step into the space and, and, and 00:35:41.120 --> 00:35:43.840 come start to develop some things. 00:35:43.840 --> 00:35:52.880 I, I just, to have that much productivity without community, like even, I mean, even Microsoft 00:35:52.880 --> 00:35:56.120 Teams gives you community aspects within the workplace. 00:35:56.820 --> 00:36:00.720 Um, you know, we, we, you know, you and I, Andy today, earlier today, we were just talking 00:36:00.720 --> 00:36:07.000 with, um, um, Barbara, uh, Carnero, a word revolution who was on the podcast last week. 00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:11.020 And she's talking about virtual offices and, and, and ways to connect. 00:36:11.020 --> 00:36:16.560 And she's, I mean, we're on a zoom call and she's got like her, her agency team that's 00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:17.060 on with her. 00:36:17.060 --> 00:36:20.620 And there's like several continents involved in the conversation and they're not missing 00:36:20.620 --> 00:36:23.400 a beat working together because they're, they're, they're working together virtually. 00:36:23.860 --> 00:36:29.700 And so even if it's just within the workplace environment, like having some sort of a, of 00:36:29.700 --> 00:36:36.380 a community, community communications, um, engagement tool is going to have to be necessary. 00:36:36.500 --> 00:36:41.620 And, um, you know, we can talk about the, the wins and the losses of FaceTime, but there's, 00:36:41.720 --> 00:36:44.660 there's a lot more opportunities I think open right now. 00:36:44.900 --> 00:36:48.800 The, the, the quest pro I think was built on that. 00:36:48.800 --> 00:36:54.640 So like 2021, 2022 meta did the quest pro and then, so they did the quest two and then 00:36:54.640 --> 00:36:56.300 the quest pro and then the quest three. 00:36:56.860 --> 00:37:00.820 And I remember the quest pro, like the thing that turned me off about it, uh, a, it was 00:37:00.820 --> 00:37:04.080 like a thousand dollars and I was like, I'm not paying a thousand dollars for something 00:37:04.080 --> 00:37:08.480 that I don't, it's not gaming focused, but I think they had in their head, like it was 00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.220 going to be a lot of what Barbara's team, Barbara's team was talking about. 00:37:11.220 --> 00:37:14.600 You know, I think, I think in their head, they were thinking, well, corporations are 00:37:14.600 --> 00:37:18.640 going to buy these with the, you know, corporations with those crappy open office plans, which 00:37:18.640 --> 00:37:19.640 everybody seems to hate. 00:37:19.900 --> 00:37:22.680 Uh, you're going to put your headset on, you're going to wear your headset for eight hours 00:37:22.680 --> 00:37:24.880 a day, minus a lunch break or whatever you want to go to the bathroom. 00:37:25.220 --> 00:37:29.520 And then you're going to be able to virtually connect with people in other offices all across 00:37:29.520 --> 00:37:30.100 the world. 00:37:30.540 --> 00:37:32.680 And I think they thought that was what was going to happen. 00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:35.820 And I don't, I have never seen any success stories about that. 00:37:36.080 --> 00:37:40.120 Actually, the only success stories I've seen about community like that has been from two 00:37:40.120 --> 00:37:44.080 places, it's been from churches and it's been from like discord servers that are actually 00:37:44.080 --> 00:37:44.860 doing the things. 00:37:45.320 --> 00:37:49.800 And I think that right there is a testament to Christians kind of just taking the space 00:37:49.800 --> 00:37:50.920 and going like, yeah, people are here. 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:51.660 We're going to go there. 00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:58.440 Well, in, in understanding the role of community and the necessity of it, um, we've, we've talked 00:37:58.440 --> 00:38:04.100 so much about that, even as of late, that, that the content that shows the, the, the relationships 00:38:04.100 --> 00:38:08.440 that we have, the people that we meet, like in order to, to really engage in the dialogue 00:38:08.440 --> 00:38:10.740 and build those relationships, it's got to be done in community. 00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:11.300 Yep. 00:38:11.460 --> 00:38:17.180 Um, you know, which is why I'm really, I mean, Apple released a 30, honestly, Apple released 00:38:17.180 --> 00:38:18.240 a 3,500 device. 00:38:18.500 --> 00:38:18.820 Yay. 00:38:19.440 --> 00:38:22.300 Um, Apple hasn't released a new device in a decade, not for a decade. 00:38:22.300 --> 00:38:23.940 I've been saying they got to come out with something. 00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:24.800 They got to come out with something. 00:38:24.900 --> 00:38:26.700 They got to, they got to get into the space. 00:38:26.780 --> 00:38:27.060 Yep. 00:38:27.280 --> 00:38:30.240 And, and, and I, and I think they did a great first step. 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:35.800 Um, when I look at what digital church, when I look at virtual reality churches and what 00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:41.080 DJ Soto's doing and what Stu's doing and, and, and many of the others that, that have been 00:38:41.080 --> 00:38:44.520 exploring, uh, the pollings, Jason pollings as well. 00:38:45.020 --> 00:38:52.260 Um, you know, there's Apple, I don't think delivered what I was expecting. 00:38:52.640 --> 00:38:53.040 Really? 00:38:53.240 --> 00:38:57.220 Um, and, and that's, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm a little disappointed. 00:38:57.620 --> 00:39:04.400 Now, I think that Apple leans more into meta and to augmented than virtual. 00:39:05.100 --> 00:39:09.920 And so if I'm looking at it with the lens of virtual of what, you know, guys like VR 00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:15.320 Tiger are doing, where they're building these massive virtual reality worlds that are recreating 00:39:15.320 --> 00:39:21.080 biblical context, I'm literally walking the tabernacle, listening to VR Tiger preach his 00:39:21.080 --> 00:39:24.860 sermon on the tabernacle and, oh, look over there, a cow just got his head cut off. 00:39:25.140 --> 00:39:28.600 Like, you know, that is not what's happened. 00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:29.700 That's believe me. 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:31.500 That is not exaggeration. 00:39:32.140 --> 00:39:32.460 Thank you. 00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.460 VR Tiger's a listener to this VR Tiger. 00:39:34.600 --> 00:39:36.140 I love you, man. 00:39:36.680 --> 00:39:42.060 Um, but, um, the, we're, we're, we're not, I'm not, I'm not getting that from the Apple 00:39:42.060 --> 00:39:42.560 device. 00:39:42.760 --> 00:39:47.260 Like, I mean, maybe, and, and I don't want to speak ill of anything that we just heard. 00:39:47.860 --> 00:39:54.960 Um, I, I think that the virtual reality concepts that we were doing at some level, I think that's 00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:56.040 like one-on-one. 00:39:56.200 --> 00:39:57.300 I think that's elementary. 00:39:57.680 --> 00:40:00.880 I think that's, um, I think that's the start. 00:40:01.040 --> 00:40:03.120 It's phase one, be less insultive. 00:40:03.320 --> 00:40:04.840 It's phase one to it. 00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:10.780 Um, I mean, even when we started this conversation, we were, you, you were talking about how you 00:40:10.780 --> 00:40:14.760 put that headset on and the, the old quest and it blocks you from reality. 00:40:14.860 --> 00:40:17.360 And there's only so long you can be that way. 00:40:17.520 --> 00:40:22.840 Even if you're downstairs playing in your mom's basement gaming, you're still has spatial 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:24.580 awareness of what's going on around you. 00:40:25.460 --> 00:40:31.560 I really do believe, and I've gotten, I remember I did, I did a podcast with Nils Smith on this 00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:33.460 and, uh, and he and I got into an argument. 00:40:33.560 --> 00:40:34.220 I couldn't believe it. 00:40:34.780 --> 00:40:40.300 Um, I really do believe that augmented reality is going to be the bigger, bigger player long 00:40:40.300 --> 00:40:44.060 term, not just for the church, but in general than virtual. 00:40:44.720 --> 00:40:46.720 Um, I think virtual is nice. 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:53.420 Uh, I think that virtual will have a place, but the ability to, to supplement what's happening, 00:40:53.420 --> 00:41:00.120 um, on your phones ends reality to put virtual, to put augmented reality in these pair of glasses 00:41:00.120 --> 00:41:05.360 that I'm holding in my hand, put it down and then have that augmented piece on top of it. 00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:12.480 Um, and when I look at the church, what I see for augmented reality, I see it tearing down 00:41:12.480 --> 00:41:18.940 borders and barriers like at, we've got to get beyond this, this persona piece where, um, 00:41:18.940 --> 00:41:23.800 I'm talking to a semi real version of whoever's wearing the headset on the other end. 00:41:24.260 --> 00:41:27.800 And we've got, you know, some of the stuff that Facebook was promising and Facebook promised 00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:32.260 all sorts of stuff Zuckerberg did in that video, but some of the stuff, some of his vision for 00:41:32.260 --> 00:41:34.600 it wasn't, you know, fake. 00:41:34.660 --> 00:41:36.500 It was real hologram person. 00:41:36.500 --> 00:41:40.800 I'm sitting, you know, I'm, I'm traveling, I'm in California, my wife's in Miami, I'm sitting 00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.700 at Starbucks and I'm watching a hologram version of her in the seat across from me, have this 00:41:44.700 --> 00:41:45.260 conversation. 00:41:46.020 --> 00:41:50.620 Um, like we need to see augmented reality tear down the borders. 00:41:50.940 --> 00:41:51.880 That's where we're going. 00:41:52.040 --> 00:41:52.800 Tear down the boundaries. 00:41:53.520 --> 00:41:59.580 Um, I can remember I had a conversation with, um, I'm not going to say who it was because 00:41:59.580 --> 00:42:00.580 I just remembered who it was. 00:42:00.740 --> 00:42:07.720 I had a conversation with, um, uh, a very popular pastor who was talking about virtual reality 00:42:07.720 --> 00:42:14.740 church and, um, I'm sorry, about churches in virtual reality, like doing ministry in virtual 00:42:14.740 --> 00:42:15.180 reality. 00:42:16.020 --> 00:42:20.920 And, uh, and he said to me, Jeff, it's, this is exact words, Jeff, it's 65% there. 00:42:21.780 --> 00:42:23.700 Like, and literally he's describing the efficacy. 00:42:24.260 --> 00:42:29.080 He's like, if I'm looking at that avatar, I'm not actually seeing the person's facial reactions. 00:42:29.080 --> 00:42:30.040 I'm not seeing their movement. 00:42:30.120 --> 00:42:30.960 I'm not seeing their skin. 00:42:31.040 --> 00:42:32.000 I'm not seeing who they are. 00:42:32.240 --> 00:42:37.240 And so you're asking me as a pastor to, to build relationships with people that I can't 00:42:37.240 --> 00:42:39.000 like read body language to. 00:42:39.760 --> 00:42:43.020 Um, and so what he equated it to was, was 65%. 00:42:43.020 --> 00:42:50.300 Um, I, I gotta hope, and maybe this is me, you know, pipe dream here. 00:42:51.080 --> 00:42:57.200 Um, I gotta believe that Apple and the technology that they're leveraging, uh, as they're continuing 00:42:57.200 --> 00:43:02.560 to build out a more, a more augmented reality, uh, is going to be able to finish off that 00:43:02.560 --> 00:43:03.300 35%. 00:43:03.300 --> 00:43:06.960 Well, think about, I mean, yes, I, I would agree with you. 00:43:07.060 --> 00:43:15.780 I also, the, the, the core conceit of what augmented reality is, is I am splitting the 00:43:15.780 --> 00:43:16.540 difference, right? 00:43:16.540 --> 00:43:21.580 I am, I'm splitting the difference of what virtual reality can give me, which is a completely 00:43:21.580 --> 00:43:23.320 different world to mine. 00:43:23.740 --> 00:43:24.340 It's escapism. 00:43:24.660 --> 00:43:27.860 It's just, it is the, it is the core of escapism. 00:43:28.400 --> 00:43:34.900 And then augmented reality is that sort of, I'm the God of this universe and I can do anything 00:43:34.900 --> 00:43:35.280 I want. 00:43:35.340 --> 00:43:36.620 It's a power fantasy, essentially. 00:43:37.600 --> 00:43:43.820 And where it gets tricky is that you, we're, we don't have the tech for it right now. 00:43:43.960 --> 00:43:49.020 Obviously, like we're, Apple's trying and their meta is going to try and, you know, uh, steam 00:43:49.020 --> 00:43:54.360 is going to try with their new index and all sorts of stuff is going to happen where, where 00:43:54.360 --> 00:44:02.960 it starts to get a little scary is that when you are a God of your own universe, you start 00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:07.180 to not pay attention to the other things around you. 00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:13.100 For example, in the state of California, when you buy a vision pro and you drive around 00:44:13.100 --> 00:44:17.840 in your Tesla, which has autopilot on, and you're playing with your vision pro, that is, 00:44:18.160 --> 00:44:21.180 I mean, they were doing it for clicks and it, and it's funny. 00:44:21.360 --> 00:44:24.760 It's also, they're going to get arrested for it or at least ticketed because now it's a 00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:25.140 misdemeanor. 00:44:25.220 --> 00:44:29.200 You're not allowed to drive with screens in your front seat, uh, looking, you know, operating 00:44:29.200 --> 00:44:30.760 screens in your front seat, excuse me. 00:44:31.160 --> 00:44:36.820 So there's that part, but, but, but the, the people that are now going to be doing things 00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:39.120 with that type of thing are not going to be paying attention to anything. 00:44:39.120 --> 00:44:43.780 And I, and I look at Casey Neistat, love Casey Neistat as a videographer, as a filmmaker, 00:44:43.780 --> 00:44:46.540 as a vlogger, the guy is inspirational. 00:44:46.680 --> 00:44:48.320 He's like old school YouTube. 00:44:49.040 --> 00:44:49.960 This is my guy. 00:44:49.960 --> 00:44:50.220 Right. 00:44:50.240 --> 00:44:52.660 And I've been following him for a hundred thousand years. 00:44:53.120 --> 00:44:54.280 He got a vision pro. 00:44:54.400 --> 00:44:57.660 And the first thing he did was he FaceTimed his friend and said, Hey, we're going to go 00:44:57.660 --> 00:44:58.940 make a review of this out in the street. 00:44:59.000 --> 00:44:59.780 It was like, okay, cool. 00:45:00.020 --> 00:45:06.200 And so the guy's just wandering around, uh, New York city, uh, it's tethered to his phone 00:45:06.200 --> 00:45:07.420 and he's just doing the whole thing. 00:45:07.460 --> 00:45:09.040 And I thought, okay, this is clever. 00:45:09.100 --> 00:45:09.780 He's skateboarding. 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:10.420 He's doing the thing. 00:45:10.480 --> 00:45:11.500 People are asking him about it. 00:45:11.500 --> 00:45:14.060 He's having really kind of heartfelt conversations with people. 00:45:14.620 --> 00:45:18.800 And then he's coming out of the subway into times square and he stops in the middle 00:45:18.800 --> 00:45:21.580 of the freaking steps to respond to a text message. 00:45:21.660 --> 00:45:23.240 And I lost it right there. 00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:28.360 And I was like, listen, if somebody in front of me stops to respond to a text message, when 00:45:28.360 --> 00:45:31.360 I can't see a phone in front of them, like if they're just walking with both hands, like 00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:34.460 I'm not, I, you know, usually if you see somebody looking down at their phone, you know, like, 00:45:34.460 --> 00:45:35.720 okay, I got to pay attention to that person. 00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:39.640 If that person just stops because a text message popped up in their eyes, I'm going to drill 00:45:39.640 --> 00:45:41.800 them and I'm not going to feel bad about it. 00:45:41.880 --> 00:45:44.900 And if that person, you know, Casey's now thinking I'm the God of my universe. 00:45:44.900 --> 00:45:48.220 I can just take over New York city and respond to a text message. 00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.620 That's dangerous to me. 00:45:50.040 --> 00:45:52.800 And I, the church has a part to play in that. 00:45:52.940 --> 00:45:54.000 Like they, they really do. 00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:59.080 Uh, I, I, I think that, that we can start to speak into those things a little bit. 00:45:59.080 --> 00:46:04.480 Um, and it's going to, it's going to be fascinating in five or 10 years when we do have, you know, 00:46:04.520 --> 00:46:08.520 Google glass was awful, but when it was, it was thin at least, and it was lightweight. 00:46:09.000 --> 00:46:14.060 And when we do have things like Google glass that are actually pro projecting things in 00:46:14.060 --> 00:46:19.000 front of us that we can interact with, not just screens, but interactive things like augmented 00:46:19.000 --> 00:46:23.340 reality, it's going to be fascinating to hear some youth pastors actually have to get up there 00:46:23.340 --> 00:46:24.040 and talk about it. 00:46:24.320 --> 00:46:29.560 Like I, I, I, I'm scared of having that talk and yet I'm also kind of looking forward to 00:46:29.560 --> 00:46:33.780 it because I have a lot of things to say about, you know, the reality is, uh, I think business 00:46:33.780 --> 00:46:41.520 insider was reporting, um, uh, Apple VP of business saying that, uh, iOS devices are dead. 00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:47.340 In, in, in 10 years, the, the phones and the iPads that we carry around are going to be replaced 00:46:47.340 --> 00:46:49.000 by, uh, vision OS. 00:46:49.000 --> 00:46:57.300 And so, um, it's going to be a very, uh, different reality in, in, in, over the next five or 10 years 00:46:57.300 --> 00:47:04.300 as, uh, as the technology improves, as, as, uh, the, the hardware and software gets more developed 00:47:04.300 --> 00:47:07.980 and, and as there's more cultural acceptance, that's really interesting. 00:47:07.980 --> 00:47:11.340 Like the guy stopping in the middle of the, the stairway in New York city. 00:47:11.940 --> 00:47:17.440 Um, I don't know that I, I react as strongly as you did, but I, I would totally be the guy 00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:21.640 just like, you know, ramming them and, and, you know, for our friends that actually live 00:47:21.640 --> 00:47:25.460 in New York city, the guy walks around with a $3,500 thing strapped to his head and nobody 00:47:25.460 --> 00:47:26.420 stole it like that. 00:47:26.520 --> 00:47:28.780 I, it's just as surprising to me. 00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:29.580 I don't know. 00:47:29.580 --> 00:47:30.580 He had a camera crew with him to protect him. 00:47:30.580 --> 00:47:30.860 Okay. 00:47:30.860 --> 00:47:31.120 Okay. 00:47:31.300 --> 00:47:31.800 There's that. 00:47:31.900 --> 00:47:35.360 He had a couple of bouncers, I guess, protecting security guards along the way. 00:47:35.620 --> 00:47:36.140 Okay, good. 00:47:36.860 --> 00:47:38.500 Um, awesome, man. 00:47:38.600 --> 00:47:41.120 Any other, any other thoughts or insights on the device? 00:47:41.720 --> 00:47:47.260 Uh, I mean, you, you, you talked a little bit about the dream of not having to buy a TV 00:47:47.260 --> 00:47:51.040 and instead everybody buys an Apple vision, kind of like ready player one type stuff. 00:47:51.040 --> 00:47:52.920 And I, I'm excited. 00:47:53.120 --> 00:47:59.520 So I talked, I talked negative about AR, but like sign me up for Apple contact lens, whatever's 00:47:59.520 --> 00:48:00.620 like, I'll pop those things in. 00:48:00.700 --> 00:48:01.520 I wear contacts regularly. 00:48:01.520 --> 00:48:03.860 I'm like almost legally blind without my contacts. 00:48:04.120 --> 00:48:09.480 I will wear Apple contacts, scan my eyes, take my brainwaves, whatever you have to do. 00:48:09.580 --> 00:48:11.320 Like if I can just interact with the world like that. 00:48:11.380 --> 00:48:11.880 Yes, please. 00:48:12.500 --> 00:48:18.680 Um, but the, the thing that is really cool going back to talking about your family wearing 00:48:18.680 --> 00:48:24.160 these is, you know, with phones, typically what families do with phones is somebody will 00:48:24.160 --> 00:48:28.780 get the latest and greatest and then they'll hand it down to their kid or to their wife 00:48:28.780 --> 00:48:30.820 or to, you know, some of their grandmother or somebody. 00:48:31.100 --> 00:48:35.040 And, you know, there's usually two or three generations of phones in families right now. 00:48:35.120 --> 00:48:36.980 It's just a, it's kind of an interesting thing. 00:48:37.040 --> 00:48:39.420 That's a phenomenon that's happened in the last seven or eight years. 00:48:39.840 --> 00:48:44.580 And that's going to be happening with the Apple vision pro, you know, Timmy, the 14 year 00:48:44.580 --> 00:48:48.700 old or Jimmy Lipper, you know, whomever the 14 year old is going to get dad's old Apple 00:48:48.700 --> 00:48:52.080 vision pro because dad's going to get the new Apple vision pro three. 00:48:52.620 --> 00:48:57.460 Uh, and he's going to wear it and then they're all going to be able to lock up together and 00:48:57.460 --> 00:49:02.440 they're all going to be able to position their own movie watching the same movie synced up 00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:07.000 because that's actually a feature in, it's called share play in, uh, iMessage right now. 00:49:07.120 --> 00:49:10.620 You can actually watch a movie with somebody through iMessage. 00:49:10.620 --> 00:49:15.440 You guys, you, one person controls it, they start the movie and then you guys can both watch 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:15.560 it. 00:49:15.740 --> 00:49:16.380 It's fascinating. 00:49:16.740 --> 00:49:17.860 So that, that technology is there. 00:49:18.460 --> 00:49:21.220 Uh, I mean, it's, it's just sync over the internet. 00:49:21.720 --> 00:49:27.100 So there's that happening and that's fascinating, but how does the church respond again, back 00:49:27.100 --> 00:49:35.420 to the further, um, the further, what's the word I'm looking for insulation of families 00:49:35.420 --> 00:49:40.820 and of people pulling, you know, giving them yet another reason to not actually do things 00:49:40.820 --> 00:49:42.600 in church or, you know, attend online church. 00:49:42.660 --> 00:49:46.700 That's great, but also have 14 other windows up around them doing 14 other things. 00:49:46.700 --> 00:49:51.520 You know, the human brain cannot physically, cannot concentrate on more than one thing at 00:49:51.520 --> 00:49:51.820 a time. 00:49:51.880 --> 00:49:55.440 It can try to, you can listen to things, but you are not concentrating on them. 00:49:55.580 --> 00:50:00.480 And, and part of being a churchgoer, part of being a Christian is we need to concentrate 00:50:00.480 --> 00:50:01.560 on God's will. 00:50:01.640 --> 00:50:03.120 We need to concentrate on his word. 00:50:03.180 --> 00:50:06.580 We need to concentrate on what he is saying to us at a specific time. 00:50:07.220 --> 00:50:09.980 And it's going to be fascinating how the church is able to do that as well. 00:50:10.000 --> 00:50:11.980 And I, I, I don't think we're fighting a losing battle. 00:50:11.980 --> 00:50:16.320 I just think we're on the cutting edge of yet another cultural battle that if we're 00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:20.760 not ready for as pastors and leaders and mentors and designers and all this, we're going to 00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:21.040 lose. 00:50:21.160 --> 00:50:22.000 And I don't want to lose. 00:50:22.100 --> 00:50:22.600 I want to win. 00:50:22.980 --> 00:50:24.100 Well, yeah. 00:50:24.220 --> 00:50:29.740 I mean, and that's gen a, um, gen alpha and, you know, whatever the next generation is 00:50:29.740 --> 00:50:35.040 coming along, who's going to be far more comfortable, um, utilizing this technology. 00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:40.400 And, and yeah, I mean, I can focus on God and have 14 other windows open as opposed to, 00:50:40.400 --> 00:50:41.740 you know, Xers. 00:50:41.900 --> 00:50:42.880 You're an Xer, aren't you? 00:50:42.940 --> 00:50:43.840 Well, I'm a millennial. 00:50:43.900 --> 00:50:44.520 Are you a millennial? 00:50:44.960 --> 00:50:45.120 Yeah. 00:50:45.620 --> 00:50:46.200 You're a millennial. 00:50:46.700 --> 00:50:47.900 Um, so I'm an Xer. 00:50:48.180 --> 00:50:52.140 Um, and so, you know, the Xers and the millennials are like, get off my lawn and I'll, I'll shake 00:50:52.140 --> 00:50:53.020 my cane at them. 00:50:53.020 --> 00:50:55.080 And, uh, it'll be, it'll be beautiful. 00:50:55.080 --> 00:50:56.260 Actually, I'll probably be fighting for them. 00:50:56.300 --> 00:50:57.200 I'm like, just listen to them. 00:50:57.240 --> 00:50:58.600 They said, they, they know what they're doing. 00:50:58.680 --> 00:50:59.040 Give me a shot. 00:50:59.040 --> 00:51:05.880 Um, but no, I, I, I think that's, um, I think the next decade is going to be really 00:51:05.880 --> 00:51:06.460 interesting. 00:51:06.760 --> 00:51:07.420 You know what? 00:51:07.420 --> 00:51:08.360 I got you here. 00:51:08.760 --> 00:51:11.760 And so we're going to, we're going to shift into a bonus question. 00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:12.200 Yeah. 00:51:12.620 --> 00:51:16.480 Uh, because Apple, Apple released, uh, vision pro. 00:51:16.660 --> 00:51:19.520 And so that's treated, which was a big deal. 00:51:20.180 --> 00:51:26.040 Um, there was another big deal that, that is maybe in this metaverse type stuff that happened 00:51:26.040 --> 00:51:26.600 yesterday. 00:51:26.860 --> 00:51:31.220 Maybe, you know, this Disney invested 1.5 billion. 00:51:31.220 --> 00:51:36.140 That's with a B billion dollars into Epic, which is the company that makes Fortnite. 00:51:37.140 --> 00:51:41.200 Um, you know, I would love to just pick your brain here. 00:51:41.300 --> 00:51:43.820 Maybe five minutes what's going on in that space. 00:51:44.900 --> 00:51:45.700 It's scary. 00:51:45.900 --> 00:51:53.000 Uh, so Epic, Epic has like the biggest game in the world for the last, what, eight or 10 00:51:53.000 --> 00:51:53.740 years called Fortnite. 00:51:53.880 --> 00:51:54.640 Perhaps you've heard of it. 00:51:54.680 --> 00:51:58.640 It's a little, little game where you punch trees, uh, and then you shoot a little game. 00:51:58.860 --> 00:51:59.040 Yeah. 00:51:59.120 --> 00:52:04.160 It's a, it is, it is essentially turned into, uh, and, and the, the funny thing is if you 00:52:04.160 --> 00:52:09.380 ever want to really laugh a little bit, go back and read the creation story of how Fortnite 00:52:09.380 --> 00:52:13.160 saved the world and then Fortnite, the battle Royale came about Fortnite was saved. 00:52:13.160 --> 00:52:15.020 The world was supposed to be the survival game. 00:52:15.560 --> 00:52:20.920 And somebody just added a couple of designers added the battle Royale into it just for fun. 00:52:20.920 --> 00:52:22.400 And it became the biggest thing ever. 00:52:22.740 --> 00:52:23.800 I play Fortnite occasionally. 00:52:23.800 --> 00:52:24.680 I'm sure you do. 00:52:24.680 --> 00:52:29.400 I'm sure everybody that in the world has played Fortnite at some point with the Disney thing. 00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:36.580 What happened was they, um, Disney had a really booming quarter and I, and it, and it took 00:52:36.580 --> 00:52:41.300 a bunch of people by surprise, I think, because Disney has not had really good quarters lately, 00:52:41.300 --> 00:52:45.580 which is shocking to me that Disney is talking about being bought by Apple and selling a bunch 00:52:45.580 --> 00:52:48.120 of shares and getting rid of their CEO and doing all the things. 00:52:49.220 --> 00:52:52.520 And, you know, Bob Iger stepped back in two and a half years ago, coming right out of the 00:52:52.520 --> 00:52:54.460 pandemic three years ago, coming right out of the pandemic. 00:52:54.460 --> 00:52:55.900 And he said, okay, we're going to be strong. 00:52:55.900 --> 00:52:58.140 Like we're going to, we're going to, we're going to present a strong front. 00:52:58.340 --> 00:53:01.820 We are going to double down on the, the things that we have. 00:53:01.820 --> 00:53:04.600 We're going to get rid of some of the things we don't have, which is why you're hearing 00:53:04.600 --> 00:53:07.660 that ESPN might be being sold as well. 00:53:07.660 --> 00:53:12.120 They're selling off properties that they think might be useful elsewhere and they're really 00:53:12.120 --> 00:53:13.300 getting to the core of what they do. 00:53:13.300 --> 00:53:18.640 And that is character based, um, characters, essentially character based characters. 00:53:18.880 --> 00:53:21.180 That's a, that's a, that's a double weird thing. 00:53:22.000 --> 00:53:30.060 What Fortnite, what Fortnite does and they have done so well is that they license different 00:53:30.060 --> 00:53:30.780 characters. 00:53:30.780 --> 00:53:35.220 So they license, uh, Dr. Strange, they license all these Marvel characters. 00:53:35.220 --> 00:53:40.360 They license, uh, the guy from Halo, you know, uh, uh, John Spartan, uh, uh, they, they 00:53:40.360 --> 00:53:44.620 license, um, different, they license hot dogs and they license all sorts of things. 00:53:44.820 --> 00:53:49.140 And then they also license things like Lego. 00:53:49.240 --> 00:53:52.840 And so there is a now Lego Fortnite out, which is actually pretty good. 00:53:52.840 --> 00:53:54.920 It's this completely standalone thing. 00:53:54.920 --> 00:53:57.580 You play Legos and you build things kind of like Minecraft. 00:53:57.580 --> 00:54:00.080 And then you just shoot each other inside the Lego world. 00:54:00.300 --> 00:54:02.800 My 14 year old plays it with his friends online. 00:54:02.960 --> 00:54:03.660 He loves it. 00:54:03.740 --> 00:54:04.720 He's having a great time. 00:54:05.200 --> 00:54:06.900 So Disney saw that and went, Oh, cool. 00:54:07.020 --> 00:54:08.000 We had a good quarter. 00:54:08.180 --> 00:54:10.200 We've got a bunch of money to throw around. 00:54:11.300 --> 00:54:15.360 Let's, uh, let's figure out how we can make this a little bit more successful. 00:54:15.980 --> 00:54:20.000 Epic had already licensed out a bunch of, again, Marvel and a bunch of Disney stuff already. 00:54:21.260 --> 00:54:24.600 And Epic said, okay, here's some, here's some stock. 00:54:24.820 --> 00:54:30.680 And I think they bought something like 25%, 24% of their, essentially like a very large chunk, 00:54:30.680 --> 00:54:33.360 a very large voting interest of Epic. 00:54:34.160 --> 00:54:38.160 And Epic now is owned by a couple of really huge companies. 00:54:38.160 --> 00:54:42.220 Uh, Epic is owned by, uh, Tim Schafer himself, like the owner. 00:54:42.320 --> 00:54:46.040 I think he's got 50 something, 49%, maybe 50% of the company. 00:54:46.160 --> 00:54:49.740 And then right behind that is this company called Tencent and Tencent. 00:54:49.880 --> 00:54:58.280 If you know anything about Tencent, they are a Chinese publisher that license every freaking 00:54:58.280 --> 00:55:00.240 game under the sun. 00:55:00.320 --> 00:55:02.760 They have, they have so many properties. 00:55:02.960 --> 00:55:07.640 Like if you, if you want to get a kick out of it, find a game that is just released or 00:55:07.640 --> 00:55:11.200 that has been released in the last five years and start to dig down into the actual publisher. 00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:16.220 Chances are Tencent owns at least a percentage share of that publisher. 00:55:16.340 --> 00:55:18.440 They are printing money in China right now. 00:55:18.800 --> 00:55:20.400 And so Tencent owns this. 00:55:20.400 --> 00:55:24.080 And now Disney is getting into essentially getting into bed with them. 00:55:24.560 --> 00:55:31.480 Uh, I'm, I'm equal parts scared and also excited to see what they do because Disney now can 00:55:31.480 --> 00:55:34.600 start putting Fortnite things in its park. 00:55:34.700 --> 00:55:38.480 They can have Fortnite representations in their parks. 00:55:38.540 --> 00:55:44.440 They can have Fortnite movies on Disney plus they can have Fortnite, you know, action figures 00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:49.240 that are coming out in Disney parks and in the Disney store and things like this is insane 00:55:49.240 --> 00:55:51.180 to me, the world that we are living in right now. 00:55:51.400 --> 00:55:51.580 Wow. 00:55:52.160 --> 00:55:52.880 It's interesting. 00:55:53.000 --> 00:55:54.660 I, I, I wasn't going there at all. 00:55:54.700 --> 00:55:56.840 I was thinking more that, that they were developing. 00:55:56.980 --> 00:56:01.820 Disney was moving towards developing a, a metaverse, uh, with all these worlds infused 00:56:01.820 --> 00:56:05.780 with, with Fortnite technology, but you're even getting into, into licensing. 00:56:06.340 --> 00:56:08.580 Um, that's really interesting. 00:56:08.580 --> 00:56:11.420 You talk about the, the VR and the metaverse side of it. 00:56:11.940 --> 00:56:13.260 Uh, Fortnite's already been doing that. 00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:14.840 Fortnite holds concerts in here. 00:56:14.920 --> 00:56:16.700 You know, I think Lady Gaga was in there. 00:56:16.740 --> 00:56:19.560 I want to say Taylor, maybe not Taylor Swift, maybe not somebody as large as that. 00:56:19.560 --> 00:56:22.880 I know, um, uh, was Drake in there as well? 00:56:23.480 --> 00:56:28.440 Um, there was, there was a number of people that have had concerts in Fortnite and essentially 00:56:28.440 --> 00:56:30.740 you just show up and you go and do the thing. 00:56:30.920 --> 00:56:34.540 I, I think I, I, I'm surprised they haven't done a VR thing yet. 00:56:34.600 --> 00:56:39.520 I think there's the thinking there that when they do it, uh, they now have the backing 00:56:39.520 --> 00:56:40.460 of Disney and Tencent. 00:56:40.560 --> 00:56:41.580 They want to release their own headset. 00:56:41.580 --> 00:56:44.980 That would be, if I'm reading the tea leaves a little bit, they want to release their own 00:56:44.980 --> 00:56:45.260 headset. 00:56:45.400 --> 00:56:51.500 They want to have the Epic, uh, the Epic quest 17 or whatever, you know, or let, you know, 00:56:51.540 --> 00:56:54.140 whatever they're going to call it, the Epic hammer one. 00:56:54.640 --> 00:56:57.720 And it's all part of the Epic game store, which they have their own game store. 00:56:57.820 --> 00:56:59.120 They have their own publishing arm. 00:56:59.460 --> 00:57:03.480 Uh, they want to have all of their own kind of properties tied up into this. 00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:08.480 Because if you, again, you trace the money back to all of these things, Disney now can 00:57:08.480 --> 00:57:10.440 license the things that it puts in there. 00:57:10.440 --> 00:57:15.600 So imagine the only way you can watch Disney plus is if you buy the Epic hammer one headset. 00:57:15.760 --> 00:57:22.220 Now you get spatial video from Disney that is now supported in China and Disney has now 00:57:22.220 --> 00:57:24.260 taken over the world yet again. 00:57:24.720 --> 00:57:25.720 Of course they did. 00:57:25.780 --> 00:57:26.200 It's Disney. 00:57:26.640 --> 00:57:28.360 Um, it's, it's, it's what they do. 00:57:28.360 --> 00:57:32.760 And now that Bob Biger's back, man, just great things, uh, are going to continue on. 00:57:32.820 --> 00:57:38.560 I, I, I, I think his, his eye for things is, is, um, is very good from a leadership perspective. 00:57:38.560 --> 00:57:42.520 And at least down here in, in Miami, I know we, we love, uh, we love the mouse degree. 00:57:42.520 --> 00:57:45.420 So hopefully, hopefully going to go visit in 24. 00:57:45.420 --> 00:57:46.720 I haven't, I haven't done trying yet. 00:57:46.900 --> 00:57:49.480 So like, that's the, that's the thing we're looking forward to. 00:57:49.480 --> 00:57:49.900 It's awesome. 00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:52.280 Anyway, man, this has been a great podcast. 00:57:52.360 --> 00:57:55.200 We kind of, kind of danced around some things with the, with the vision pro. 00:57:56.000 --> 00:57:58.380 Um, I just really wanted to talk to you about the Disney stuff. 00:57:58.460 --> 00:58:00.240 So why not do that on, on, on the podcast as well? 00:58:00.240 --> 00:58:05.220 But Hey, as, as we're, as we're landing the plane here, um, Andy Mage, operations director 00:58:05.220 --> 00:58:11.480 of the church digital and podcast, uh, host and producer of, Oh, so many you're do you're 00:58:11.480 --> 00:58:14.180 like, you're like the digital church version of Disney. 00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:21.580 I'm just saying, but, um, any, uh, put, put that out there and man, any closing thoughts, 00:58:21.680 --> 00:58:21.800 man? 00:58:22.200 --> 00:58:25.700 No, I'm, I am excited to see the next five or 10 years of tech. 00:58:25.780 --> 00:58:31.360 Uh, again, being a tech enthusiast, it's just a, it's a real cool time, uh, to, to be doing 00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:35.460 things that things were getting stale there for a little bit with phones, kind of an iPads 00:58:35.460 --> 00:58:35.920 and tablets. 00:58:35.920 --> 00:58:39.480 And then the last two or three years, there's really been a Renaissance coming out of COVID. 00:58:39.640 --> 00:58:41.940 There was almost like a slinge slingshot effect happening. 00:58:42.460 --> 00:58:46.320 Uh, everyone sat on their hands for a little bit too long and then wanted to drive products 00:58:46.320 --> 00:58:46.540 forward. 00:58:46.540 --> 00:58:48.540 So I'm super excited to see where it goes. 00:58:48.540 --> 00:58:52.100 And more than that, I'm super excited to see again, going back to my previous statement, 00:58:52.100 --> 00:58:53.300 I don't want to lose as the church. 00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:54.400 I want to win as the church. 00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:58.100 And so I want to, I want to figure out how we as the church can be using all of these new 00:58:58.100 --> 00:58:58.520 tools. 00:58:58.980 --> 00:58:59.340 Definitely. 00:58:59.620 --> 00:59:00.500 And completely. 00:59:00.740 --> 00:59:05.900 And so, yeah, we don't have to be excited about Apple adding a fourth camera lens to the 00:59:05.900 --> 00:59:10.240 iPhone, like there's other things that we can, uh, be, be talking about, which is, which 00:59:10.240 --> 00:59:10.860 is a great thing. 00:59:10.860 --> 00:59:13.460 But Hey, thanks for jumping on the podcast to Andy. 00:59:13.880 --> 00:59:16.240 So, uh, for Andy, this is Jeff at the church digital. 00:59:16.640 --> 00:59:18.420 Thanks for jumping here on the show. 00:59:18.480 --> 00:59:19.260 We'll see you next time. 00:59:19.380 --> 00:59:19.920 Y'all have a good one. 00:59:19.920 --> 00:59:20.420 Bye.