WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.380 I don't know where you are in your church journey or your ability, your leadership responsibility. 00:00:06.100 --> 00:00:06.660 Love you, Hector. 00:00:07.440 --> 00:00:11.380 I wonder how much of that we need to be aware of and we need to be thinking about. 00:00:12.860 --> 00:00:20.000 How much of our desires for legacy, our desires for impact, 00:00:21.100 --> 00:00:25.940 how much of what even we're doing digitally is long-term versus to be short-term seats? 00:00:27.200 --> 00:00:29.200 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:30.000 --> 00:00:34.040 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:34.360 --> 00:00:37.860 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:38.480 --> 00:00:40.100 Is disciple-making possible digitally? 00:00:40.480 --> 00:00:42.540 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:42.820 --> 00:00:45.420 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:45.800 --> 00:00:49.740 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:50.440 --> 00:00:52.640 Whether you're a big or small church, 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:59.320 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church digitally and physically. 00:00:59.900 --> 00:01:01.440 And now, here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:01.620 --> 00:01:02.740 Hey, TCD family. 00:01:02.840 --> 00:01:05.120 Jeff Reed here, doing a stream here. 00:01:05.720 --> 00:01:11.340 But excited to jump on here and talk a little bit here to the TCD fam. 00:01:11.460 --> 00:01:15.000 Now, we'll put this out on YouTube as well. 00:01:15.100 --> 00:01:16.660 We'll put it on demand over there. 00:01:17.340 --> 00:01:22.600 I may put it on the podcast and just really try to get this out on a regular basis. 00:01:22.600 --> 00:01:27.080 Because, you know, I'm excited to talk to the family here at the Church Digital. 00:01:27.320 --> 00:01:29.480 And so, waiting to see some people come in. 00:01:29.580 --> 00:01:33.320 But looking forward to connecting here with the Church Digital fam. 00:01:33.380 --> 00:01:38.200 Now, a lot has been going on here with TCD over the past couple weeks. 00:01:38.400 --> 00:01:41.240 Last week was Expo. 00:01:41.800 --> 00:01:46.160 And so, a lot of you were in Expo Orlando, there at First Baptist Orlando. 00:01:46.440 --> 00:01:49.040 This exponential global conference was happening. 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:54.660 And it's such an incredible, awesome time, I know, within our leadership. 00:01:55.800 --> 00:02:02.220 Jason Morris was there and was speaking with Jim Tomberlin and his crew at the Multisite Group through Resi. 00:02:02.600 --> 00:02:09.060 And Andy Mage was doing a lot of work last week at Expo for Lux. 00:02:09.240 --> 00:02:11.520 And I know Mark spoke over there with something. 00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:17.240 I believe Layton was definitely around as well and was doing a lot. 00:02:17.240 --> 00:02:27.700 And so, it was a really exponential, was a really great time to connect and really start to see, honestly, some digital get a little more fruition. 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:30.240 Now, I was actually not at Expo this year. 00:02:30.300 --> 00:02:31.120 I took this year off. 00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:34.040 I'd been there maybe, I don't know, five or six years in a row. 00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:35.620 And so, I took the year off. 00:02:35.700 --> 00:02:42.260 I was actually speaking at a push pay event in Dallas that I was contracted to be at. 00:02:42.260 --> 00:02:45.420 And so, Miss the Exponential family was excited about it. 00:02:45.420 --> 00:02:49.860 Hey, Elle, Michelle, Spencer, Deborah, it's good to see you all. 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:51.520 Glad you can jump here on the stream. 00:02:52.100 --> 00:02:55.180 But what's really interesting, Gerald, hey, Gerald, what's going on? 00:02:55.580 --> 00:03:04.300 What was really interesting coming out of Expo that I am hearing and seeing more and more of, and it's actually push pay. 00:03:04.300 --> 00:03:09.560 We talked about it with their CTO a couple weeks ago on the podcast. 00:03:10.880 --> 00:03:19.160 The acceptance of digital or the perceived acceptance of digital, what people are thinking is digital, is becoming far more regular. 00:03:19.380 --> 00:03:19.720 It was funny. 00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:22.440 Jason Morris was telling me about his talk. 00:03:22.900 --> 00:03:23.320 It's funny. 00:03:23.440 --> 00:03:26.620 I've actually spoken, his talk, what he did. 00:03:26.940 --> 00:03:28.640 I spoke in that track. 00:03:28.740 --> 00:03:32.920 That was actually the first place that I spoke maybe five or six years ago at Exponential. 00:03:34.040 --> 00:03:38.340 And it was Jim Tomberlin, who's a digital supporter. 00:03:39.020 --> 00:03:40.680 But it's a multi-site track. 00:03:40.920 --> 00:03:48.240 And to be honest, historically, you know, there hasn't been a lot of support for, like, the people in the room have not been excited about digital ministry. 00:03:48.240 --> 00:03:58.220 And so, like, there were times, maybe five or six years ago, that when I would speak for that talk for Jim, it was really a hostile audience because they weren't wanting digital. 00:03:58.340 --> 00:03:59.560 They weren't wanting to talk digital. 00:04:00.880 --> 00:04:05.960 And so when I touched base with J-Mo this morning, hey, what's going on? 00:04:05.960 --> 00:04:06.840 How was Expo? 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.920 How did that talk go? 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:09.800 I know that's typically tough for him to speak in. 00:04:10.840 --> 00:04:12.600 And Jason laughed. 00:04:12.860 --> 00:04:15.920 And he's like, man, there wasn't anything tough about it. 00:04:16.520 --> 00:04:20.080 I was building up my defense within the first five, ten minutes. 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:22.460 And everybody kept shaking their head yes like they agreed with me. 00:04:22.800 --> 00:04:24.320 And I realized I was wasting my time. 00:04:24.380 --> 00:04:30.120 And so I skipped, like, a couple slides and went just into the rest of my talk where I started actually talking about how digital would work. 00:04:30.980 --> 00:04:32.920 And really, that's what we're seeing. 00:04:33.380 --> 00:04:35.560 Aaron Sin, I've talked about that CTO of PushPay. 00:04:37.020 --> 00:04:39.060 90, I'm going to get my stats confused. 00:04:39.140 --> 00:04:40.220 Confused, forgive me. 00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:47.400 But something like 91% of churches consider themselves hybrid. 00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:50.940 Now, what hybrid is, we can have that conversation. 00:04:50.940 --> 00:04:59.960 But 91% of churches today, physical churches, mostly interviewed, I don't think any digital churches were represented in that interview. 00:05:00.060 --> 00:05:07.620 But 91% consider their ministry hybrid, having physical and having digital aspects. 00:05:08.220 --> 00:05:15.180 90% of those interviewed, 90% of those interviewed, 9-0, stream their services at some point, for some level. 00:05:15.260 --> 00:05:17.020 Now, maybe they understand why. 00:05:17.100 --> 00:05:18.580 Maybe they need to be reminded of why. 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:22.060 Maybe there needs to be better definition centered around that. 00:05:22.060 --> 00:05:26.260 Or maybe helping them have more purpose behind it. 00:05:26.420 --> 00:05:31.860 But there is a huge opportunity, I would suggest. 00:05:31.860 --> 00:05:35.960 I mean, really, we talk about hostility around digital. 00:05:36.360 --> 00:05:43.640 And I'm curious, yeah, so we, through the Church Digital, we talk a lot about digital discipleship. 00:05:43.720 --> 00:05:45.880 That's still a battleground, I would argue. 00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:55.680 You know, A, because of the digital context of discipleship, but then also our view of discipleship is a little different than the, you know, the established churches. 00:05:55.680 --> 00:06:00.220 So there's still a lot of controversy in the, at least in our, some of our arguments. 00:06:00.420 --> 00:06:05.280 But I would suggest that it's, the pendulum is shifting a little bit here. 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:08.500 And I'm, I personally am feeling that. 00:06:08.780 --> 00:06:10.560 And I'm seeing that. 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:11.720 And it's interesting. 00:06:11.800 --> 00:06:16.220 In my talk with PushPay, I did a modified talk. 00:06:16.220 --> 00:06:23.640 And I've done this maybe three or four times for PushPay and for different churches that are, it's really, it's a boutique kind of conference. 00:06:23.860 --> 00:06:29.240 It's six, eight, ten churches, very small kind of crowd, very intimate setting. 00:06:29.820 --> 00:06:32.980 And, and I've, I've done the same talk four times. 00:06:33.500 --> 00:06:36.060 It's modified slightly, but same general gist. 00:06:36.880 --> 00:06:39.960 And for whatever reason, this time, it didn't land. 00:06:40.220 --> 00:06:43.560 Last time I did this talk was September, and it was a freaking slam dunk. 00:06:44.500 --> 00:06:47.640 And, you know, I don't know if it was just different churches in the room, different places. 00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:49.160 I don't know if I was just in a bad mood. 00:06:50.420 --> 00:06:54.160 To be honest, it was actually, last time I did, it was probably June. 00:06:54.300 --> 00:06:56.840 So it's been maybe eight or nine months since I had talked publicly. 00:06:57.220 --> 00:07:00.740 It was the first time I talked with the cane and kind of gone through that. 00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:10.820 And so maybe some of it was that, but like, it was the, the defensive posture of my talk did not resonate well with the audience. 00:07:10.820 --> 00:07:15.280 And so like, I found myself agreeing with JMO, man. 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:19.880 And, and some of the stuff that Mark and Andy are, are, are, I'm hearing through Lux. 00:07:20.440 --> 00:07:21.560 It's a, it's the same thing. 00:07:21.560 --> 00:07:23.140 It's like, man, we didn't have to, we didn't have to fight. 00:07:23.200 --> 00:07:24.860 Like people are, are agreeing. 00:07:24.960 --> 00:07:25.960 There's some that are interested. 00:07:26.100 --> 00:07:28.080 It's like, we, we didn't have to sell. 00:07:28.140 --> 00:07:29.780 Like people were coming to us. 00:07:31.160 --> 00:07:35.800 And so I'm curious if you're out there listening in chat here, Hector, hey man, Hector, how are you doing? 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:37.100 We should, we should catch up. 00:07:37.340 --> 00:07:38.520 Great to see you, Hector. 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:44.940 I would love to hear what you're all experiencing with your churches. 00:07:45.100 --> 00:07:47.740 Are you feeling physical and digital? 00:07:47.880 --> 00:07:51.280 Like, are you feeling that, that hesitation towards digital anymore? 00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:53.500 Are people open to the conversation? 00:07:53.660 --> 00:08:01.020 Are they just not understanding what it is that they're, they're, they're wanting to, to connect with, but they're open to it. 00:08:01.020 --> 00:08:03.060 Like what, what is the feeling? 00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:06.840 What's the temperature that you guys and gals, what are you feeling in your churches? 00:08:06.940 --> 00:08:07.500 Go ahead and do this. 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:09.120 And as you know, we're doing this on demand. 00:08:09.220 --> 00:08:10.420 It's not, put it in chat if you want. 00:08:10.720 --> 00:08:18.100 Um, but on demand, you know, I'm going to give you my cell phone number, 484-324-8724, 484-324-8724. 00:08:18.260 --> 00:08:19.240 It's number four of the church. 00:08:19.880 --> 00:08:23.380 Uh, so text me, uh, and, and, and let me know your opinion on that. 00:08:23.440 --> 00:08:26.620 I would, I would love to hear from you on it. 00:08:27.000 --> 00:08:27.620 It's interesting. 00:08:27.740 --> 00:08:31.620 I've been, um, oh my gosh, so much to talk about today. 00:08:31.800 --> 00:08:38.960 Um, a couple of weeks ago, I did a stream shared from the heart and, um, got emotional, cried a little bit on camera. 00:08:38.960 --> 00:08:41.140 I think that was the first time I cried on camera publicly. 00:08:41.920 --> 00:08:42.980 And, uh, so you can go back. 00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:45.100 Well, it's, it's somewhere in our YouTubes. 00:08:45.160 --> 00:08:46.100 You can find it. 00:08:46.680 --> 00:09:07.760 Um, but, uh, would definitely love for you to, to, to go back and, and, and experience that and just even get a feel, uh, where people, uh, literally around the planet are praying for the digital church and, and, and what we're seeing and what we're championing and what we're wanting to do in digital space. 00:09:07.760 --> 00:09:15.800 And so Elmichel is saying here, well, um, what bird, pink mink, uh, I, I have no idea who you are, bro. 00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:17.380 Uh, that's awesome though. 00:09:17.440 --> 00:09:19.820 Hopefully I pronounced all of that accurately. 00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:26.760 Uh, the brick and mortar church has had to change how they do ministry because people didn't come back. 00:09:26.900 --> 00:09:28.080 You know, that's interesting. 00:09:28.200 --> 00:09:30.060 White beard, punk monk. 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:30.940 Thank you. 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:31.740 That makes more sense. 00:09:32.020 --> 00:09:37.680 Um, the pink mink would have been interesting, especially given your, uh, avatar photo there. 00:09:37.760 --> 00:09:41.900 Um, the brick and mortar church has had to change, uh, how they do ministry. 00:09:42.100 --> 00:09:43.180 You know, it's interesting. 00:09:43.320 --> 00:09:51.080 I, I agree with you, but at the same time, I'm actually seeing that's not true. 00:09:51.880 --> 00:09:56.680 Um, what there are some churches that are in decline. 00:09:57.320 --> 00:09:59.560 There are many churches that are going up to the right. 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:07.500 Now, in my opinion, the hangers on, I have, I have stories. 00:10:07.680 --> 00:10:10.200 I don't have stats to back up what I'm about to say. 00:10:10.960 --> 00:10:25.280 Um, I've had several churches report to me that the loose hangers on pre COVID, not the typical engaged person, but the, the crowd, not the community, not the loyal people. 00:10:25.280 --> 00:10:29.420 The, the, the, the hangers on, the hangers on didn't come back. 00:10:30.160 --> 00:10:32.160 Uh, and so a lot of churches took a hit. 00:10:32.740 --> 00:10:39.700 Um, and there was a season where they tried to re-engage with the old hangers on the churches that have been successful have said, forget those people. 00:10:39.700 --> 00:10:48.380 We're just going to start from scratch and have re-engaged, have built up a new audience, a new crowd leading into a new community. 00:10:48.380 --> 00:10:54.000 And so those seem to be the ones, uh, that are, have, have transitioned in this season. 00:10:54.120 --> 00:11:01.980 Elle Michelle's emphatically doing a yes with about seven different, uh, you almost have to treat the church as a replant. 00:11:02.120 --> 00:11:06.440 You know what, post COVID, I agree with you there, uh, Hector, that, that's very true. 00:11:07.280 --> 00:11:17.200 Um, uh, people, Elle Michelle, people are open, but some push back on, on going live at time of service, saying people may not come to the building. 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:22.880 And as a result, you know what, I mean, in the grand scheme of things, Elle Michelle, I'm okay with that. 00:11:23.560 --> 00:11:24.060 I'm okay. 00:11:24.060 --> 00:11:29.820 If somebody doesn't come back to the, to, if, if you don't stream your service live, we don't, uh, we don't stream our service live. 00:11:30.000 --> 00:11:31.620 Um, I mean, we're, let me, let me context. 00:11:31.720 --> 00:11:35.820 I'm a, we're a 200, 250 person church plant. 00:11:35.820 --> 00:11:37.160 Like we've been open two years. 00:11:37.720 --> 00:11:40.280 Um, we have no ability to produce. 00:11:40.280 --> 00:11:42.180 We have a high quality worship. 00:11:42.180 --> 00:11:45.440 I would suggest, uh, sing a singer songwriter. 00:11:45.440 --> 00:11:50.040 Uh, like a very class, very classy professional feel. 00:11:50.040 --> 00:11:52.620 Um, we're all mega church guys doing a church plant. 00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:56.560 Um, and I'm actually not involved too much in leadership at this point. 00:11:56.560 --> 00:11:58.220 I kind of stepped back with some of the health stuff. 00:11:58.680 --> 00:12:04.120 And, um, but I, I would say that like, we can't produce the musical portion well at all. 00:12:04.680 --> 00:12:13.620 And so we put that sermon online, you know, post, and I mean, we get, like I said, there's a, there's 200 people in the room and a hundred people are watching on YouTube. 00:12:14.620 --> 00:12:19.420 I mean, there, there's, there's, there's value to that, whether that's shareability, whether that's spread. 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:24.640 I don't know if we really have 300 people or if it's, you know, a hundred of the 200 are watching it on YouTube again. 00:12:25.920 --> 00:12:29.340 Um, there's on demand will all reach more than live. 00:12:29.660 --> 00:12:33.560 And so really, like I would suggest, and you know, I'm going to show you're smarter in this. 00:12:33.640 --> 00:12:37.320 I'm not teaching you anything you don't know, but pick your battles, right? 00:12:37.380 --> 00:12:38.520 As you're walking into this stuff. 00:12:40.520 --> 00:12:54.880 If, uh, if somebody doesn't want, it's funny, um, Erwin McManus, Erwin McManus said this, um, if everything you value about your church happens on Sunday morning, nine o'clock, then why the garbage would you want to stream that on Sunday morning? 00:12:55.880 --> 00:13:00.720 Streaming that on Sunday morning, well, it cheapens what you're doing physically. 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:13.840 And so if, if you really value Sunday morning, like it's, it's the, it's the umpteenth thing that you're doing, like it's, it's the ultimate of, of what your church is, which maybe it shouldn't be, but that's another conversation. 00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:17.980 But if it is, then don't stream it, like make it happen in the physical space. 00:13:18.060 --> 00:13:24.500 Now do something else, put it on demand after the fact, get more views anyway, um, stream other things. 00:13:24.500 --> 00:13:26.540 Like there, there's other ways to do that. 00:13:29.240 --> 00:13:31.320 Definitely would encourage, uh, moving beyond that. 00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:32.840 And you see, you see that on the show, which is great. 00:13:33.560 --> 00:13:36.960 Uh, people are open to some pushback, uh, yeah, of which I disagree. 00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:40.160 Whoever plans to come inside a building will, uh, and vice versa. 00:13:40.620 --> 00:13:41.140 You're right. 00:13:42.100 --> 00:13:43.680 And, but you, you pick that on the show. 00:13:43.740 --> 00:13:48.280 You pick that battle, like when you can, um, it's better to move the ball forward. 00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:49.260 It's better to be progressive. 00:13:49.260 --> 00:13:50.960 It's better to be, uh, adopting. 00:13:51.040 --> 00:13:52.940 It better be friendly than, than antagonistic. 00:13:53.220 --> 00:13:57.080 Um, I've actually been doing some writing for Rezzy and that was, um, 00:13:57.420 --> 00:13:59.880 that was actually one of the blogs. 00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:01.040 I can't wait for it to publish. 00:14:01.180 --> 00:14:04.020 Actually, I went, they were like, Hey, write 1200 words. 00:14:04.060 --> 00:14:04.820 And I wrote 2,500. 00:14:04.820 --> 00:14:06.060 And I was like, I got another five. 00:14:06.180 --> 00:14:07.340 I got another 500 words easy. 00:14:07.400 --> 00:14:08.580 I could turn this into two blogs. 00:14:08.880 --> 00:14:10.120 And instead they were like, no, no, no. 00:14:10.140 --> 00:14:10.820 We like what you did. 00:14:10.840 --> 00:14:12.140 Just keep it together as, as one. 00:14:12.420 --> 00:14:13.640 But I told my story. 00:14:13.820 --> 00:14:21.320 I gave advice on how, um, like how, how to, um, how a physical church can work with the 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:26.480 lead pastor and work with leadership to install, uh, digital ministry. 00:14:27.100 --> 00:14:30.560 I said, here's eight tips on how to make that happen. 00:14:30.560 --> 00:14:37.060 And then after I gave those eight tips, I said, here's the story of what I did where I literally 00:14:37.060 --> 00:14:39.580 violated every one of those eight tips. 00:14:39.740 --> 00:14:42.440 I, and practically got myself fired. 00:14:42.580 --> 00:14:44.660 I got, I worked myself out of a job. 00:14:44.760 --> 00:14:50.440 They did not want to continue me on because I didn't do anything that I'm now suggesting 00:14:50.440 --> 00:14:52.020 that digital pastors do. 00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:53.040 That's actually how I learned it. 00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:54.200 I was like, where did I go wrong? 00:14:54.380 --> 00:14:59.060 Here's the eight things I screwed up in, in, in that job and how I basically was like, Jeff, 00:14:59.100 --> 00:15:02.440 you need to leave, um, and, and how I postured things. 00:15:02.480 --> 00:15:03.640 And so there's ways to do it wrong. 00:15:03.640 --> 00:15:04.740 Uh, definitely. 00:15:05.580 --> 00:15:09.240 Uh, and, and, but, you know, with anything in life, learn from those mistakes. 00:15:10.040 --> 00:15:16.240 Um, Hector, if people don't come to the building, but are engaged online, it changes strategy 00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:17.580 dramatically. 00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:22.440 Uh, if you engage online differently, uh, than just a window into the room. 00:15:23.000 --> 00:15:23.500 Ooh. 00:15:24.380 --> 00:15:28.000 Ooh, more than just a window into the room. 00:15:28.080 --> 00:15:29.820 I'm going to, I'm going to come back. 00:15:29.900 --> 00:15:34.040 Now you see you, Hector, you just, you just pulled the thread on actually what I wanted 00:15:34.040 --> 00:15:35.300 to get into in this conversation. 00:15:35.300 --> 00:15:36.240 So we'll get there in a little bit. 00:15:36.880 --> 00:15:38.580 Um, white beard. 00:15:38.680 --> 00:15:41.680 I'm, I'm at a black gospel church in Orlando, Florida tech director. 00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:46.080 We stream, uh, we have 900 in person and 1300 online. 00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:48.980 We also do all of our small groups online. 00:15:48.980 --> 00:15:51.800 Now you said all white beard. 00:15:52.320 --> 00:15:54.700 Do you mean 100% all? 00:15:54.700 --> 00:16:00.040 Um, and I would love to know what the online context is, uh, for that. 00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:05.340 If you're holding classes, parent nights, you see a very, very good one white beard. 00:16:05.420 --> 00:16:08.220 I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, you're my hero, bro. 00:16:08.660 --> 00:16:12.080 Like how, how many groups don't, don't be, are you better not be lying to me right now, 00:16:12.080 --> 00:16:12.280 man? 00:16:12.280 --> 00:16:13.900 Like this is, this is serious stuff. 00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:15.700 Um, let me know. 00:16:15.920 --> 00:16:16.420 I'm real. 00:16:16.440 --> 00:16:17.420 That's really interesting. 00:16:17.820 --> 00:16:19.720 Um, I want to, I want to explore this more. 00:16:19.720 --> 00:16:21.960 Actually may want to dig in six day groups. 00:16:21.960 --> 00:16:22.180 Okay. 00:16:22.180 --> 00:16:26.440 So it's, it's, it's starting strategy, but your culture is online, um, which, which is 00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:27.900 good, uh, towards that. 00:16:28.280 --> 00:16:32.260 And, um, yeah, very, very cool. 00:16:32.320 --> 00:16:33.400 I do want to dig into that. 00:16:33.400 --> 00:16:37.560 Uh, so I'll, I'll hit you up via, uh, um, fam messenger here in a little bit. 00:16:37.560 --> 00:16:46.420 I, I, it does, I do want to pull the thread here, um, of moving beyond the online stream 00:16:46.420 --> 00:16:47.880 being a window to the physical space. 00:16:49.480 --> 00:16:52.040 Um, that was very well said, Hector. 00:16:52.540 --> 00:16:59.440 I have a strategy that I've been kind of working through over the past year or so in context. 00:16:59.540 --> 00:17:02.440 It's really a framework of, of how digital churches operate. 00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:06.740 And, uh, you know, I, I would love y'all's feedback as, as I'm kind of, you know, trying 00:17:06.740 --> 00:17:09.160 to get these to come through, I've got a slide. 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:12.820 I'm not going to put a slide up because it's just, it kind of distracts from the moment. 00:17:12.820 --> 00:17:18.660 So let me, let me just kind of walk through the, the four steps and it says, so the first 00:17:18.660 --> 00:17:22.400 step, you know, is what I'm calling connection. 00:17:23.140 --> 00:17:30.560 So through our connections, uh, we drive people, we engage with people and drive them into community 00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:32.520 within the community. 00:17:32.520 --> 00:17:37.320 We build and develop relationships that lead towards discipleship. 00:17:37.860 --> 00:17:42.440 And within our discipleship, we teach and we train people towards multiplication. 00:17:43.100 --> 00:17:48.660 So connection, community, discipleship, multiplication. 00:17:49.660 --> 00:17:52.240 Show the slide so I can screenshot it. 00:17:52.320 --> 00:17:53.160 Is that the correct way? 00:17:53.220 --> 00:17:54.060 Is it screenshot it? 00:17:54.520 --> 00:17:57.320 What's, what's the, what's the correct way to say that? 00:17:57.400 --> 00:17:59.440 No, I'm not happy with it. 00:17:59.580 --> 00:18:05.600 Um, to be honest with it, I, I, I shared the idea with, uh, with some of my, my Rezzy push 00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:06.300 pay friends. 00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:11.200 And, um, this is, um, it's that they were, they were excited about it. 00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.460 And so like, they're like, they're, they're graphic artists. 00:18:13.460 --> 00:18:16.080 They want to, um, to take a look at it. 00:18:16.120 --> 00:18:19.540 To be honest, Elmichelle, I've been talking about this for so long. 00:18:19.660 --> 00:18:23.600 Some of the slide decks I probably gave you way back in the day to, for you to use, you've 00:18:23.600 --> 00:18:27.380 probably have access to the slide already, but it's really, and at the time it was content. 00:18:27.820 --> 00:18:29.440 And you say content leads to community. 00:18:29.940 --> 00:18:32.040 Our online church services have to leave the community. 00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.920 Our, our social media has to lead to community. 00:18:35.140 --> 00:18:40.680 Our TikTok posts, our reels, everything we do has to drive people to a community because 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:42.800 we cannot do discipleship on TikTok. 00:18:42.800 --> 00:18:46.980 Like I, I will, I mean, I'm not, I'm not going to, yeah, no, I will die on that hill. 00:18:47.160 --> 00:18:53.820 We cannot because the TikTok platform is not rich enough relationally for us to create a, 00:18:53.820 --> 00:18:58.640 a, um, a system of discipleship, maybe one off individual people. 00:18:58.800 --> 00:18:58.900 Okay. 00:18:58.900 --> 00:19:05.340 Maybe, but a system of discipleship existing in digital space in, in TikTok, it's, it's not 00:19:05.340 --> 00:19:08.600 resilient enough of a, of a platform for that to happen. 00:19:09.320 --> 00:19:09.760 Okay. 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.120 Hot, hot lead there. 00:19:11.120 --> 00:19:13.900 You know, send your hate mail to me, Jeff at the church digital. 00:19:14.700 --> 00:19:19.720 Um, so, but what we're really doing is more than, than content. 00:19:19.840 --> 00:19:20.140 Right. 00:19:20.720 --> 00:19:24.560 Um, and so it's really like social media, our influence. 00:19:24.920 --> 00:19:29.980 So it really starts to become our connections, our connections, which includes content, which 00:19:29.980 --> 00:19:37.800 includes social media, which like all of this, our connections have to lead people into community 00:19:37.800 --> 00:19:42.880 where we can build relationships with them, where I can know what's going on with El Michelle 00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:47.940 and be excited for what's going on with white beard and, and, and be praying for, for Hector 00:19:47.940 --> 00:19:54.440 and his transitions and, and to be able to be aware of what's going on in, in these spaces. 00:19:54.440 --> 00:19:59.820 Um, Hey, Scott, Scott, Scott, Scott's a guy I haven't seen in a while, uh, show up on this 00:19:59.820 --> 00:19:59.980 thing. 00:19:59.980 --> 00:20:02.880 So Scott, great to see you kind of pop on here today as well. 00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.120 Hey. 00:20:03.560 --> 00:20:09.760 And so once again, it's that community aspect where we build relationships. 00:20:09.760 --> 00:20:15.260 Now, the, I mean, the biggest problem with the church online, the hybrid church, the church 00:20:15.260 --> 00:20:20.900 that's doing a broadcast of a window to seeing what's happening in the physical building is 00:20:20.900 --> 00:20:26.420 they're trying to get organized or they're trying to get their visitors, um, either to 00:20:26.420 --> 00:20:31.340 come into a physical building, which they may or may not want to do, or to, to join a small 00:20:31.340 --> 00:20:35.620 group, which there's not enough trust to really do that. 00:20:35.620 --> 00:20:43.060 You see this, this process of connection, leading people to community, building relationships 00:20:43.060 --> 00:20:48.480 towards discipleship and getting to the place of multiplying and empowering others towards 00:20:48.480 --> 00:20:53.520 their creating their own process. 00:20:53.520 --> 00:20:57.240 This entire process is really about trust. 00:20:57.240 --> 00:21:01.820 It's really about how much trust does that person on tick tock have? 00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:06.680 Do I have enough trust with this person to get them at least into a discord community? 00:21:06.680 --> 00:21:10.420 If the answer is yeah, oh my gosh, uh, Hector, you're quoting Isaac. 00:21:10.420 --> 00:21:11.720 Let me get to that in a little bit. 00:21:11.720 --> 00:21:12.720 I love that. 00:21:12.720 --> 00:21:13.720 Isaac. 00:21:13.720 --> 00:21:14.720 Isaac's a bud. 00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:15.720 Isaac actually started his stuff down here in Miami. 00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:16.720 Good stuff. 00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:25.480 Um, so, um, where we are is that our, um, sorry, I just got distracted, but our, our. 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:27.240 Uh, it's all about trust, right? 00:21:27.240 --> 00:21:35.240 And, and how we're utilizing and engagement in our connections to build that trust, to drive 00:21:35.240 --> 00:21:36.240 them into a community. 00:21:36.240 --> 00:21:39.240 Now, I mean, this even works in physical space, right? 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:48.000 The connections that we have within a church service, you're able to drive that into a community in 00:21:48.000 --> 00:21:49.000 physical space. 00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:57.760 And so getting somebody connected into a small group physically relatively easy to happen. 00:21:57.760 --> 00:21:59.760 It, but there's physicality. 00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:01.760 It's a lot easier to trust. 00:22:01.760 --> 00:22:06.200 I think I, I think I said this a couple of weeks ago, like if I'm a visitor at a, at a physical 00:22:06.200 --> 00:22:12.160 church building, uh, I have actually don't really have a problem leaving you, my baby, my newborn 00:22:12.160 --> 00:22:16.520 child, and giving you all of my contact information with that child. 00:22:16.520 --> 00:22:21.520 I don't know what it is about physicality, but physicality, there's a higher level of trust in 00:22:21.520 --> 00:22:22.520 that environment online. 00:22:22.520 --> 00:22:25.520 I, I, man, I'm not even going to give you my email address. 00:22:25.520 --> 00:22:30.880 Like, I'm going to check you out several times before I build that in. 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:38.360 And so it's really, it's a hard jump digitally to build that trust. 00:22:38.360 --> 00:22:43.840 But once you can get that trust into community, man, that's where I think we're really able 00:22:43.840 --> 00:22:47.080 to see relationships develop quickly. 00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:51.740 And now through that, that growing trust in the relationships, that's where we're able 00:22:51.740 --> 00:22:56.860 to get into relational evangelism, relational discipleship, like, you know, you know, we've, 00:22:56.860 --> 00:23:00.700 we've talked many stories and some of my virtual reality friends can, can, you know, tell the 00:23:00.700 --> 00:23:04.940 story of this Alice in the palace, formerly Alice queen of hell, you know, she's a great 00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:10.540 example of, this is a, it's a woman, uh, um, a neo-paganist, a Satanist who found Christ, 00:23:10.540 --> 00:23:15.660 uh, in virtual reality as a result of relationships that developed over eight months. 00:23:15.660 --> 00:23:20.540 And, and, and we say JMO is, is Jason Morris on, on our leadership team is famous for 00:23:20.540 --> 00:23:23.740 saying digitally people find, uh, community before they find Christ. 00:23:24.300 --> 00:23:27.100 That's different than the physical church, physical church. 00:23:27.100 --> 00:23:28.940 People find Christ and then join the community. 00:23:28.940 --> 00:23:34.940 I mean, literally it's like raise my hand, pray this prayer, come forward and get, get introduced 00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:36.620 to the church or, you know, whatever the process is. 00:23:36.620 --> 00:23:37.180 I'm Baptist. 00:23:37.180 --> 00:23:39.500 That's the way I was growing up digitally. 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:40.700 It's, it's, it's not that way. 00:23:41.580 --> 00:23:46.780 Um, digitally it's join the community like Alice, get invited into the community, 00:23:46.780 --> 00:23:47.820 get pulled into the community. 00:23:47.820 --> 00:23:52.620 Alice actually showed up to troll the church in virtual reality and ended up, um, 00:23:53.580 --> 00:23:57.580 being invited in two weeks later after trying to troll it, she was actually managing the tech 00:23:59.100 --> 00:24:01.020 more point for virtual reality. 00:24:01.020 --> 00:24:07.180 And six to eight months later, I found Jesus accepted Christ, uh, through conversations. 00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:07.660 So good. 00:24:07.660 --> 00:24:10.540 Uh, Isaac, uh, so Hector saying it's hard. 00:24:10.540 --> 00:24:16.380 Isaac, uh, petite free air, uh, did, did it, but it was a one-off and it was really, 00:24:16.940 --> 00:24:19.260 uh, from folks who enjoyed him reading the Bible and thoughts. 00:24:19.260 --> 00:24:24.380 They ended up asking him, uh, and then doing the work to help, uh, build a podcast. 00:24:24.940 --> 00:24:28.940 Uh, you know what, Isaac, uh, I, I, I've worked with Isaac in the COVID season. 00:24:29.260 --> 00:24:33.740 Um, it was part of, uh, it's a church United, South Florida network called Church United. 00:24:34.300 --> 00:24:37.100 Um, he, I think Isaac's now out on the west coast of Florida. 00:24:37.820 --> 00:24:42.780 Isaac was quoted as me as saying, Jeff, uh, we only, he had a building, he had a warehouse, 00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:46.460 maybe, you know, in, in a, in an art district down here in South Florida. 00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:49.340 Isaac was quoted as saying, Jeff, the building slows us down. 00:24:49.340 --> 00:24:50.540 The building's a lid. 00:24:50.540 --> 00:24:51.660 We don't want a building. 00:24:51.660 --> 00:24:53.260 Uh, we want, we want to be digital. 00:24:53.900 --> 00:24:58.860 And it was so beautiful of a concept and to see the stuff that he's doing. 00:24:59.340 --> 00:25:01.260 Um, he's done a lot of work with alpha. 00:25:01.260 --> 00:25:06.380 Like if you were look at alpha, um, USA, like they, they did, I don't know if it's a student 00:25:06.380 --> 00:25:10.300 track or like a young track, but he adopted alpha towards that. 00:25:10.300 --> 00:25:13.020 Um, and his church, the last I heard is doing, doing great. 00:25:13.020 --> 00:25:15.180 He's not working with Church United anymore. 00:25:15.180 --> 00:25:19.180 So I don't necessarily have as much access as I did at one point, but I know he's, uh, 00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:22.460 I get texts from him every once in a while, encouragement texts. 00:25:22.460 --> 00:25:23.820 And so that's good, good to see. 00:25:24.380 --> 00:25:31.180 Um, but this process connections, which leads us to community and through the community, 00:25:31.180 --> 00:25:35.020 we, we build relationships towards discipleship that take us to the point of 00:25:35.020 --> 00:25:40.940 multiplying disciples out and releasing and empowering them to do the same thing over again. 00:25:40.940 --> 00:25:46.860 It's that cycle that I think we, uh, the church, digital, we, the metaverse church, 00:25:46.860 --> 00:25:49.580 we digital and physical churches that are out there. 00:25:49.580 --> 00:25:53.660 We've got to start championing these, these ideas. 00:25:53.660 --> 00:25:55.340 It's interesting yesterday. 00:25:55.340 --> 00:25:57.180 Uh, yeah, I do have it yesterday. 00:25:57.180 --> 00:25:59.340 Um, I drove up to West Palm beach. 00:25:59.340 --> 00:26:05.900 Uh, I was hanging out with, uh, with some friends, uh, where I, I got to meet a borderline 00:26:05.900 --> 00:26:06.620 hero of mine. 00:26:06.620 --> 00:26:09.180 Steve Addison is, uh, is Australian as well. 00:26:09.180 --> 00:26:11.740 We had a story of Australian last week, Australian of this week. 00:26:11.740 --> 00:26:12.460 Sorry of Australian. 00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:17.180 Uh, Steve Addison here, new book, uh, acts, uh, in the movement of God. 00:26:17.180 --> 00:26:19.900 Steve is a, uh, a missiologist. 00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:22.780 He went to college at West Palm beach there at, uh, Palm beach Atlantic. 00:26:22.780 --> 00:26:24.780 Um, their white beard. 00:26:24.780 --> 00:26:25.820 He was, uh, yeah. 00:26:25.820 --> 00:26:27.260 So I was, I was right there. 00:26:27.260 --> 00:26:34.460 I was at, at, uh, family Christian, Christian family, uh, there at the heart of, um, uh, 00:26:34.460 --> 00:26:35.100 PBA. 00:26:35.100 --> 00:26:38.380 I actually was walking around the library. 00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:44.380 I was having coffee with, uh, with Steve Addison and some of the no place left people. 00:26:44.780 --> 00:26:46.780 Um, and, uh, it was funny. 00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:54.300 The, the Starbucks that I was at had a sign over the, over in the corner that it was the 00:26:54.300 --> 00:27:01.660 John MacArthur, um, whatever, whatever, whatever cafe, like, I guess John MacArthur had paid for 00:27:01.660 --> 00:27:04.860 this Starbucks cafe in the library and blah, blah, blah. 00:27:05.580 --> 00:27:09.500 And so I was talking with Steve Addison and I was like, Hey, look, we're sitting in John 00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:10.460 MacArthur's cafe. 00:27:10.780 --> 00:27:11.340 Steve laughs. 00:27:11.340 --> 00:27:12.700 And he's like, yeah, that guy hates me. 00:27:13.500 --> 00:27:14.460 John MacArthur hates you. 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.620 Yeah. 00:27:14.620 --> 00:27:15.580 John MacArthur hates me. 00:27:15.580 --> 00:27:18.220 Like he, he, uh, he, he's ripped the church digital. 00:27:18.220 --> 00:27:25.180 Uh, he ripped, uh, Chesley and I, uh, some, I think he's 22, 23 and in some, some articles, 00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:29.900 he and his organization actually went very much against the idea of, of virtual church. 00:27:29.900 --> 00:27:33.260 Actually, I think, um, digital church is what we would call it. 00:27:33.260 --> 00:27:34.700 He kind of used some old language. 00:27:35.100 --> 00:27:42.380 Um, but Chesley, I think really alienated him, um, by saying the church needed a disruption 00:27:42.380 --> 00:27:43.500 and it does. 00:27:44.300 --> 00:27:47.580 Um, and the disruptions coming. 00:27:50.140 --> 00:27:52.460 The disruptions happened everywhere else on the planet. 00:27:52.460 --> 00:27:53.820 Why would it not come to America? 00:27:55.580 --> 00:27:59.500 Uh, but that's not for us to say right now. 00:27:59.500 --> 00:28:03.340 It's, it's, it's, let's do what we can for the kingdom with the, uh, opportunities available. 00:28:03.340 --> 00:28:05.900 So I'm hanging out with my friend, Steve Addison. 00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:07.180 No, about Steve Addison. 00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:09.420 Um, he's a, he's a missiologist. 00:28:09.420 --> 00:28:11.900 He's a, he's a huge guy. 00:28:11.900 --> 00:28:16.780 Um, he's written a number of books of talking about movements, talking about movements that 00:28:16.780 --> 00:28:26.620 changed the world and about how, uh, people started, um, um, um, people have started movements, 00:28:26.620 --> 00:28:33.980 evangelical movements, disciple making movements, um, that have impacted cities, states, regions, 00:28:33.980 --> 00:28:35.820 countries, nations, continents. 00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:39.500 Um, and, and what does that look like in, in biblical context? 00:28:40.140 --> 00:28:45.420 When we look at the book of acts, the church of acts, when we look at that, at the early church, 00:28:46.300 --> 00:28:49.260 what do we see in context of, of movements? 00:28:49.260 --> 00:28:50.460 How did they operate? 00:28:51.340 --> 00:28:55.820 You know, and, and, and if we're fair, how does that, how does that compare to the, 00:28:55.820 --> 00:28:57.980 to the church of today, to the American church? 00:28:57.980 --> 00:28:59.740 Let's take John MacArthur out of the conversation. 00:29:00.700 --> 00:29:05.900 And so like, he started dropping some, some bombs, and even like the historical church, 00:29:05.900 --> 00:29:07.660 like what is movements looked like historically? 00:29:07.660 --> 00:29:10.940 And what, what do we, what do we need to learn from this for the future? 00:29:11.740 --> 00:29:14.140 Let me give you a couple of tidbits that, that Steve Addison shared. 00:29:14.620 --> 00:29:16.220 I was just so blown away. 00:29:16.220 --> 00:29:18.220 I was so encouraged, um, by it. 00:29:19.420 --> 00:29:23.580 Um, he started talking about the church in Jerusalem, the Jerusalem church, 00:29:24.620 --> 00:29:28.300 Gen zero, like this is where the church started Jerusalem. 00:29:28.780 --> 00:29:35.340 These are the, was it 60 some, 80 some people that are up in the room with the tongues of fire and all that. 00:29:38.300 --> 00:29:39.260 Oh, you're killing me. 00:29:39.260 --> 00:29:39.740 White beard. 00:29:39.740 --> 00:29:40.940 It's a different MacArthur. 00:29:43.660 --> 00:29:45.180 Man, that kills my story. 00:29:45.660 --> 00:29:48.460 I was so excited to be able to say that guy hates me. 00:29:48.860 --> 00:29:49.900 That guy doesn't know me. 00:29:50.220 --> 00:29:50.780 Nevermind. 00:29:51.340 --> 00:29:52.140 Hey, you know what? 00:29:52.460 --> 00:29:54.620 White beard, you just killed everything for me. 00:29:54.620 --> 00:29:57.740 Like, I can't, I don't even know what to do right now, man, like that. 00:29:57.980 --> 00:29:58.460 No, I'm kidding. 00:29:58.460 --> 00:29:59.420 That's, it's, it was irrelevant. 00:29:59.420 --> 00:30:00.380 It was a very small point. 00:30:00.380 --> 00:30:05.260 What I was actually trying to say, um, the church in Jerusalem, but thank you for that. 00:30:05.260 --> 00:30:06.940 I do appreciate the, the correction. 00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:11.180 I'll, uh, I, I will adopt, I will adapt my stories moving forward. 00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:12.220 Okay. 00:30:12.780 --> 00:30:20.620 So, um, the church in Jerusalem, the 60 some, 80 some people, tongues of fire coming down. 00:30:22.460 --> 00:30:23.820 3000 people saved. 00:30:25.020 --> 00:30:29.180 Um, where is the, where's the Jerusalem building? 00:30:29.820 --> 00:30:33.340 I mean, initially there is no like church buildings anywhere. 00:30:33.340 --> 00:30:39.500 If, if you looked at like the, the, the church, um, the biblical church, my mom actually did this. 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:43.980 My mom asked me the other day, I think she's going through a study of acts, um, with, uh, some people online. 00:30:44.620 --> 00:30:47.340 My mom teaches two online groups, by the way, which is awesome. 00:30:47.340 --> 00:30:50.300 She's like old and she's, she's still doing it. 00:30:50.300 --> 00:30:55.740 She's like, she loves online, but she asked me, she's like, Jeff, how many of the early churches were house churches? 00:30:56.540 --> 00:31:00.380 I was like 100%, 99%. 00:31:00.860 --> 00:31:03.260 Like there wasn't a lot of other opportunities. 00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:06.620 You don't see church buildings from that era. 00:31:06.620 --> 00:31:12.300 Like it was the majority of them, if not all of them met in homes or living spaces or things like that. 00:31:12.300 --> 00:31:17.260 It's not like there was building campaigns, uh, in the time of Christ, uh, towards that. 00:31:17.260 --> 00:31:21.740 And my mom kind of laughed at the irony of, of just how much things have changed. 00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:27.660 Um, but the truth of true church of Jerusalem, it literally gave itself away. 00:31:28.860 --> 00:31:36.300 Like the, the persecution that came with, with Saul, um, with, uh, Stephen and the story of Saul. 00:31:37.340 --> 00:31:41.020 Uh, I mean, the scripture literally says, and they taught, they shared the gospel as they went. 00:31:41.980 --> 00:31:44.140 The, the church dissipated. 00:31:44.460 --> 00:31:47.580 The first church was not a, uh, legacy church. 00:31:47.900 --> 00:31:49.980 It was not an eternal church. 00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:53.420 They were not trying to build an entity for, for forever. 00:31:54.620 --> 00:32:05.100 It was specifically designed and ended up through God's wisdom to be a distributed church, to be sent out. 00:32:05.660 --> 00:32:08.780 Um, it was not an ekklesia forever. 00:32:08.780 --> 00:32:09.980 It was a diaspora. 00:32:10.380 --> 00:32:15.820 It was, it was a distributed church that was meant to be the seeds for others. 00:32:17.340 --> 00:32:18.540 Um, and, and, and it's interesting. 00:32:18.540 --> 00:32:20.460 I wonder how much of that. 00:32:22.780 --> 00:32:28.220 I don't know where you are in your church journey or your ability, your leadership responsibility. 00:32:28.780 --> 00:32:29.500 Love you, Hector. 00:32:29.980 --> 00:32:34.140 Um, I, I wonder how much of that we need to be aware of and we need to be thinking about. 00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:42.780 How much of our, our desires for, for legacy, our desires for, for impact. 00:32:43.740 --> 00:32:48.700 Um, how much of what even we're doing digitally is long-term versus to be short-term seeds. 00:32:49.420 --> 00:32:56.300 You know, last, last time I did a stream, we talked about the ability to, uh, connect with others, to mentor. 00:32:56.300 --> 00:33:04.940 Let's have Paul's that are mentoring us and let's have Timothy's that we're mentoring and, and, and, um, in discipleship and multiplication and who are we empowering? 00:33:05.260 --> 00:33:09.180 Who are we apprenticing to, for this next generation of planters like that? 00:33:09.180 --> 00:33:11.820 I think is, is so important. 00:33:13.420 --> 00:33:19.020 And I don't think digitally, like if I were to look at us as digital churches, um, what I know, and I don't know everything, 00:33:20.220 --> 00:33:23.420 but I don't know that we're really understanding that multiplication. 00:33:23.420 --> 00:33:26.780 I don't think we're really taking advantage of empowering that next generation yet. 00:33:27.100 --> 00:33:30.300 Part of us wants to be, uh, and, and I get it, I'm, I'm guilty of it. 00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:34.860 Part of it is, you know, I led the church digital for a season where it's like, I don't want to bring on more leaders 00:33:35.740 --> 00:33:37.100 until I get the model figured out. 00:33:37.100 --> 00:33:40.300 And then when I get the model figured out, we'll, we'll bring on more leaders. 00:33:40.940 --> 00:33:43.020 The thing is the model is constantly evolving. 00:33:43.820 --> 00:33:45.100 It's constantly changing. 00:33:46.140 --> 00:33:49.420 We're, I mean, we're even bringing out some new changes 00:33:50.460 --> 00:33:54.620 like there is stuff I've brought out Monday, major impacts within the organization. 00:33:54.620 --> 00:33:58.060 And we're, we're going to roll this out and communicate it out in a couple, in a couple of weeks. 00:33:58.060 --> 00:34:01.580 But there's, there's just, there's always, there's always change, right? 00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:04.220 It's almost like, we're going to wait to have a baby. 00:34:04.220 --> 00:34:07.660 You just have the baby that you're never ready for the baby. 00:34:08.220 --> 00:34:11.340 Um, you're, you're never ready for the apprentice. 00:34:11.340 --> 00:34:15.100 By the way, the apprentice can help you develop those next systems. 00:34:15.100 --> 00:34:16.300 Like they can give you the feedback. 00:34:16.300 --> 00:34:17.020 They give you direction. 00:34:17.020 --> 00:34:18.060 They could be eyes on the field. 00:34:18.700 --> 00:34:22.780 And so like there, there's this challenge to, to give it away. 00:34:24.940 --> 00:34:26.300 The church in Jerusalem didn't wait. 00:34:28.460 --> 00:34:31.100 Now, arguably they had, you know, persecution. 00:34:31.100 --> 00:34:35.420 There was a gun to the head, literally speaking, to get them to that place. 00:34:35.420 --> 00:34:37.180 But I think that's the opportunity for us 00:34:38.620 --> 00:34:45.020 maybe to start to apprentice, to train, to find someone that can walk along with us, 00:34:45.020 --> 00:34:49.500 carry some of our burden that we can eventually release to do their own. 00:34:50.700 --> 00:34:56.620 And whether that's an offshoot of what you're doing as, as like a, a, a sub brand, or whether 00:34:56.620 --> 00:34:58.140 that's a completely separate thing. 00:34:58.140 --> 00:34:59.020 I mean, does it matter? 00:34:59.740 --> 00:35:03.660 Um, but the fact is, is that, man, there's so much potential in life. 00:35:05.500 --> 00:35:08.380 If we start to multiply ourselves into others. 00:35:09.820 --> 00:35:10.540 And it's interesting. 00:35:10.540 --> 00:35:13.580 Steve Addison, he, he told me a story, uh, yesterday. 00:35:14.300 --> 00:35:19.740 And, um, uh, white beard, you're more, and some of you others on here, probably a little more 00:35:19.740 --> 00:35:23.580 theological, um, especially church history, more grounded than I am. 00:35:23.580 --> 00:35:24.940 And so I'm probably going to butcher the story. 00:35:25.660 --> 00:35:29.100 I'm going to look it up, but I just wanted to share the rough version of it right now. 00:35:29.660 --> 00:35:31.260 And, uh, it's William Carey. 00:35:32.060 --> 00:35:37.500 Uh, William Carey is, uh, was a, my understanding was an Anglican pastor around 1750. 00:35:38.140 --> 00:35:39.580 And it's set in the 1700s. 00:35:40.940 --> 00:35:49.260 And, um, William Carey, my understanding, um, was really, uh, an, an early movement leader, 00:35:49.260 --> 00:35:51.900 much more about multiplication and discipleship. 00:35:51.900 --> 00:35:57.580 And that was really kind of his approach on, on how he was, was managing church a couple 00:35:57.580 --> 00:35:58.220 hundred years ago. 00:35:59.500 --> 00:36:06.620 Um, and that was, I mean, you think it was controversial in 2020, um, some of the stuff 00:36:06.620 --> 00:36:12.620 we're doing that his ideology was controversial to the Anglican church in the 1700s. 00:36:13.660 --> 00:36:21.660 So much so that the church literally changed his church literally changed the locks on the guy, 00:36:22.700 --> 00:36:28.860 locked him out of the church building and forbid him from, uh, speaking. 00:36:30.140 --> 00:36:33.180 Now, William Carey was, was a young person at the time. 00:36:34.140 --> 00:36:42.540 Um, but he, he did not give up on his disciple making approach on the way that he viewed God 00:36:42.540 --> 00:36:47.580 in viewed ministry, even as controversial as it was in the 1700s. 00:36:49.020 --> 00:36:55.740 And so he pulled 20 individuals as a young adult, as a young man, um, and met with them regularly 00:36:55.740 --> 00:37:00.700 in a pub, in a pub, William Carey, 20 individuals. 00:37:01.660 --> 00:37:06.700 And over the course of the year, discipled those 20 individuals and then sent them out. 00:37:07.980 --> 00:37:09.100 Year two came around. 00:37:11.180 --> 00:37:15.180 William Carey didn't have any funding, doesn't have a job. 00:37:15.820 --> 00:37:16.780 He got locked out. 00:37:16.780 --> 00:37:17.900 He literally got fired. 00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:21.340 He, they, they, they removed, they changed the locks on the guy. 00:37:21.820 --> 00:37:27.580 So he's not getting funding, but he found another 20 guys invested 12 months into them 00:37:29.180 --> 00:37:30.460 and sent those 20 guys out. 00:37:31.820 --> 00:37:36.780 Now, my understanding is that William Carey did that 50 times over 50 years. 00:37:38.140 --> 00:37:43.260 And that William Carey, over the span of 50 years, without funding, without a church job, 00:37:43.820 --> 00:37:45.820 um, truly bivocational here. 00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:48.140 I don't know how, I don't know what he was doing for a living at the time. 00:37:48.140 --> 00:37:56.460 But William Carey is, is historically, um, had rejuvenated, uh, evangelism within the Anglican 00:37:56.460 --> 00:38:02.460 church by investing in 20 guys at a time in an English pub. 00:38:02.460 --> 00:38:08.460 You know, last time I talked here on the stream, we talked a lot about how, um, finances are hard, 00:38:08.460 --> 00:38:14.140 money's hard, and we don't know, you know, it's, it's a struggle, right? 00:38:14.140 --> 00:38:17.900 And we literally, I was talking about how pioneers get shot. 00:38:17.900 --> 00:38:18.780 Settlers get rich. 00:38:20.300 --> 00:38:22.380 William Carey was a pioneer and dude got shot. 00:38:22.780 --> 00:38:24.140 I mean, he didn't literally get shot. 00:38:24.140 --> 00:38:27.020 I don't, I don't even know what bullets looked like in 17. 00:38:27.020 --> 00:38:28.300 I guess they had cannonballs, right? 00:38:28.300 --> 00:38:31.100 So they had that some sort of gun thing. 00:38:31.100 --> 00:38:31.340 Yeah. 00:38:31.340 --> 00:38:34.140 I mean, 1776, they had the bayonets. 00:38:35.340 --> 00:38:38.620 So there is bullets, but he didn't literally get shot. 00:38:38.620 --> 00:38:39.580 I don't know. 00:38:39.580 --> 00:38:43.660 I don't think, but he got criticized. 00:38:43.660 --> 00:38:44.940 He got ostracized. 00:38:44.940 --> 00:38:46.860 He got kicked out of his church for his beliefs. 00:38:48.860 --> 00:38:52.540 And instead of running away and crying and hiding, he spent 50 years investing in a 00:38:52.540 --> 00:38:55.180 thousand people that I'm sure multiplied into many others. 00:38:55.180 --> 00:38:59.980 And dude is credited with restoring what's happening within the church. 00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:06.620 And so I would suggest, maybe that's our opportunities for today. 00:39:07.180 --> 00:39:11.180 For some of us that are in physical churches, you are championing the idea of digital ministry. 00:39:11.180 --> 00:39:17.180 And while they may see an opportunity for hybrid, they may not understand the opportunity of 00:39:17.180 --> 00:39:18.220 digital discipleship. 00:39:18.700 --> 00:39:23.500 And it's your job to be the bridge to connect that physical church to understand that we need 00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:26.060 to be more than just a window into the building. 00:39:26.060 --> 00:39:29.660 There's an opportunity for discipleship to be more than just a window into the building. 00:39:29.660 --> 00:39:32.060 That discipleship can happen digitally as well as physically. 00:39:32.060 --> 00:39:36.300 And oh my gosh, if the church can understand that and invest into that, ministry will explode. 00:39:38.220 --> 00:39:41.020 So the physical church minister has a challenge ahead of them. 00:39:42.860 --> 00:39:49.260 I would follow up with this that the digital church pastor, the digital church planter, has an opportunity as well. 00:39:51.420 --> 00:39:54.380 Because we are the pioneers that are getting shot. 00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:57.340 We are the ones that are struggling with funding. 00:39:57.820 --> 00:40:01.900 We are the ones that are struggling with approval. 00:40:03.500 --> 00:40:06.300 And we can cry about that. 00:40:08.460 --> 00:40:12.220 Or we can William Carey the situation and realize they may lock us out of the building. 00:40:12.220 --> 00:40:14.540 But who needs a building? 00:40:14.540 --> 00:40:16.620 The buildings are the lid that's going to hold us back. 00:40:16.620 --> 00:40:22.540 And let's go find a British pub to go invest in 20 guys a year and multiply the crap out of this idea. 00:40:24.620 --> 00:40:25.580 And that's the challenge. 00:40:27.020 --> 00:40:29.260 I've spent too many of my years trying to get approval. 00:40:31.420 --> 00:40:32.940 I don't know what this is on Enneagram. 00:40:32.940 --> 00:40:34.140 I'm not really an Enneagram. 00:40:34.140 --> 00:40:37.340 But one of the Enneagrams is an approval addict, right? 00:40:37.340 --> 00:40:41.100 And in many ways, I've lived my life as an approval addict. 00:40:41.100 --> 00:40:44.060 I'm looking for people to thumbs up. 00:40:45.500 --> 00:40:50.460 And that's a challenge because I'm also incredibly disruptive. 00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:53.340 I'm incredibly change-oriented. 00:40:53.820 --> 00:40:58.940 And so I live in this vicious cycle where I want change, but I want people to approve the change. 00:40:58.940 --> 00:41:01.180 But I always want to be bleeding edge and I need people to approve. 00:41:03.020 --> 00:41:04.460 Don't live yourself in that cycle. 00:41:05.100 --> 00:41:11.180 But what we as digital pastors, what we really need to be are the screw-it people. 00:41:12.460 --> 00:41:17.180 And let's just find a pub, find 20 people, and change the world. 00:41:19.260 --> 00:41:21.740 That's the mentality that we're looking for. 00:41:22.460 --> 00:41:29.340 That's the mentality I think that's going to be successful today in digital ministry and digital discipleship. 00:41:31.020 --> 00:41:32.220 The world will see what we're doing. 00:41:32.220 --> 00:41:33.900 They already are. 00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:41.660 Some of the conversations that Mark was experiencing at Expo as a result of planting and Andy and 00:41:41.660 --> 00:41:46.540 Leighton was very encouraged by even some of the feedback towards the church digital. 00:41:47.100 --> 00:41:59.020 Like where we are, it's an incredible opportunity, but rather than being discouraged in this situation, I want to encourage you to keep pressing on. 00:42:01.180 --> 00:42:02.540 They walk us out of buildings. 00:42:03.980 --> 00:42:07.100 Realize that those buildings are lids and limitations to what we can do. 00:42:08.140 --> 00:42:21.580 And let's keep pressing forward with this idea of digital and how we can reach the people successfully and disciple the people and mobilize and multiply and release people digitally and physically. 00:42:22.460 --> 00:42:28.620 We can impact people that the physical buildings are not reaching and impacting. 00:42:30.140 --> 00:42:30.540 That's it. 00:42:30.540 --> 00:42:31.820 That's the time for today. 00:42:31.820 --> 00:42:33.100 I hope this has been good. 00:42:33.100 --> 00:42:38.540 I have really enjoyed hanging out with the eight of you that stuck around this long. 00:42:38.540 --> 00:42:43.820 Elle, Michelle, Scott, Hector, Gerald, Spencer, Deborah, Whitebeard. 00:42:45.100 --> 00:42:47.420 Whitebeard, let's hang out some. 00:42:47.420 --> 00:42:49.020 I want to learn more about you. 00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:50.860 You've hit my radar a couple of times. 00:42:51.820 --> 00:42:59.740 To be honest, the pink mink kind of scared me off a little bit, but understanding you a little bit better in this conversation is good. 00:42:59.740 --> 00:43:03.660 But, hey, listen, if you've got thoughts on this, if you're in chat, great. 00:43:03.660 --> 00:43:13.100 If you are hanging out with us in other space, my cell number, 484-324-8724. 00:43:13.500 --> 00:43:16.540 Once again, that's number for the church. 00:43:16.540 --> 00:43:19.660 Would love to hang out with you guys, but feel free to text me. 00:43:20.220 --> 00:43:22.940 Any thoughts, challenges, questions, prayer requests. 00:43:22.940 --> 00:43:27.420 Let's be praying for the church digital once ahead. 00:43:28.140 --> 00:43:34.220 There is just started a community to curate content talks like this on X. 00:43:34.220 --> 00:43:36.860 I love that you're in X, Elle, Michelle. 00:43:36.860 --> 00:43:37.420 So awesome. 00:43:37.420 --> 00:43:39.500 Check out that link. 00:43:40.140 --> 00:43:42.380 But let's continue the conversation. 00:43:42.380 --> 00:43:47.820 There's going to be some big announcements coming out of church digital in the next week or so. 00:43:48.860 --> 00:43:56.380 Really excited about some things coming up very soon that's going to impact ministry through the church digital as we know it. 00:43:56.380 --> 00:43:57.020 So stay tuned. 00:43:59.020 --> 00:44:03.660 Man, listen, I am a guy who loves leaking stuff before it's supposed to. 00:44:04.220 --> 00:44:06.220 And I really want to leak this. 00:44:06.220 --> 00:44:07.420 I really want to tell you. 00:44:07.420 --> 00:44:08.460 I can't, though. 00:44:08.460 --> 00:44:09.100 I can't. 00:44:09.100 --> 00:44:10.300 I can't. 00:44:10.300 --> 00:44:11.100 I can't. 00:44:11.100 --> 00:44:12.060 I can't. 00:44:12.060 --> 00:44:13.980 Elle, Michelle, I can't do it. 00:44:14.380 --> 00:44:15.740 Don't make me do it. 00:44:15.740 --> 00:44:17.180 But I really, I just. 00:44:18.380 --> 00:44:24.940 Barbara Carnero somewhere is like drilling into me right now. 00:44:25.580 --> 00:44:26.660 Layton says it's okay. 00:44:26.820 --> 00:44:28.720 Layton is currently on a cruise ship. 00:44:29.260 --> 00:44:31.000 Layton isn't talking to any. 00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:31.800 Okay, tiny leak. 00:44:33.740 --> 00:44:34.900 The website. 00:44:35.380 --> 00:44:36.940 So TCD will have a new website. 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:39.580 And we're going to. 00:44:40.380 --> 00:44:44.660 I think I've been teasing the website for since January, first week of January. 00:44:44.660 --> 00:44:53.760 But April 5th, I've told the team, hell or high water, the church digital is going to relaunch the website April 5th. 00:44:53.760 --> 00:45:02.400 And so that, and that is going to snowball into a whole bunch of other things. 00:45:02.400 --> 00:45:08.040 And so I'm excited about some of the, some of the organizational shifts, some of our shifts in community. 00:45:09.060 --> 00:45:10.800 It really, it's structured around that, right? 00:45:10.860 --> 00:45:19.620 This, this connection, which leads to community where discipleship happens and leads our people towards multiplication and mobilization and our job to mobilize them. 00:45:20.000 --> 00:45:21.780 That right there, you want the leak? 00:45:22.280 --> 00:45:23.020 That's the leak. 00:45:23.500 --> 00:45:24.580 That right there. 00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:27.080 Hey, we created a model for what digital church could be. 00:45:27.160 --> 00:45:30.840 And oh, by the way, that's how we're going to structure the church digital moving forward. 00:45:31.000 --> 00:45:34.900 It's, you know, I've said this, the church digital is not about me. 00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:40.540 Organizationally, even the leading of this is not about me. 00:45:40.720 --> 00:45:42.700 It's, it's, we're led by a team. 00:45:43.460 --> 00:45:50.840 And I'm really excited to see what this team's got in store for us in the, in the day, in the weeks, the weeks, the weeks to come. 00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:51.460 Stay tuned. 00:45:52.300 --> 00:45:53.100 April 5th. 00:45:54.380 --> 00:45:58.940 My head will either explode like the emoji or it's going to be an awesome day. 00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:02.940 Hopefully my head explodes like the emoji. 00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:06.680 Although somebody would say clean up on aisle four and then that would get weird. 00:46:07.920 --> 00:46:08.240 Awesome. 00:46:08.720 --> 00:46:09.040 All right. 00:46:09.100 --> 00:46:14.920 So, hey, I'm going to, I'm going to stall for maybe 30 more seconds, but as we're landing the plane, I feel like I'm on the church digital podcast. 00:46:15.180 --> 00:46:18.200 As we're landing the plane, Jeff, any closing thoughts? 00:46:19.460 --> 00:46:21.980 No, listen, it's been awesome hanging with you all. 00:46:22.700 --> 00:46:37.320 And we're going to do this more often here in fam or maybe some other community platform yet to be publicly announced. 00:46:38.380 --> 00:46:39.120 I don't know. 00:46:39.120 --> 00:46:40.960 Are we, are we, are we moving? 00:46:41.740 --> 00:46:42.560 I'm not allowed to say that. 00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:45.040 Don't make me say it on Michelle. 00:46:46.400 --> 00:46:46.800 All right. 00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:47.060 I'm out. 00:46:47.160 --> 00:46:47.840 Hey, love y'all. 00:46:48.060 --> 00:46:48.540 Have a good one. 00:46:48.780 --> 00:46:49.020 Bye.