WEBVTT

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 Jeff here. We'll get back to the podcast in a second, but I wanted to let you know of an

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 opportunity to help you further develop your church online. Here at The Church Digital,

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 we found some of the best ways for churches to grow their ministry online is to work alongside

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 other churches. To that end, The Church Digital is opening up some coaching cohorts in January 2020.

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 Through our cohorts, you'll be connected with churches with similar goals in place in ministry,

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 and work through these goals together over the six months under the guidance of the crew

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 here at The Church Digital. In 2020, invest in your church online. Invest in you. For more

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 information and to find out how you can save 20%, visit thechurch.digital slash cohort.

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 Let's not get hung up on a facility. That's a direct quote from Mark Venti here on episode 29

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 of The Church Digital Podcast. We had a great episode, a great interview, great conversation,

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 and I got to tell you, it went a little long, but it is so rich with concepts for church online,

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 for digital church, for mobile app church, that I don't want to add a bunch of stuff here

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 in the beginning. I just want you to listen to the interview because right from the get-go,

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 it is solid, solid stuff. Here's who I'm bringing to the table today. Mark Venti, executive pastor

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 of Church Home there on the West Coast. I'm bringing in Ray DeArmes, online pastor from

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 Christ Fellowship Miami, and myself, of course, Jeff Reed from The Church Digital in a conversation

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 that I'm calling Creating Church Culture Digitally. Hey, everybody. Here you go.

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 Our church started in 1992, and I came over. I started attending church home. It was then

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 called The City Church. It was launched called The City Church in Seattle, Washington. I joined

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 the church in 2000. I kind of dabbled in it a little bit before that, but I came to do our

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 Bible College, and the church saw a lot of growth early on, and I came on staff in 2001, cleaning

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 toilets and washing windows, and then during that time, myself, I did a lot of youth ministry,

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 and during that time, our church also transitioned to doing multi-site. We launched our first location

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 in 2004, and so I was a part of that on the youth ministry side, how to start and grow our youth

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 ministry in multiple locations, and a really fun time. Our pastor right now is Judah Smith, so his

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 parents started the church, and he was the youth pastor, though, and I worked with him back in youth

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 ministry, and had a really fun time building youth ministry in a multi-site environment, and what that

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 meant was we did four youth services a week in person, so that was a lot, and I did the high school and the

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 music, and then I slowly morphed into becoming the college and young adults pastor and campus pastor

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 two of our locations, one that's on the University of Washington, so it's pretty much all college

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 students. A lot of fun. It would triple the third week of September when all the students came back,

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 and then like the second week of December, it was like the rapture happened, and then I campus

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 pastored at our main location, and the church has just been through, you know, a bunch. What happened

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 in 2006, sorry, 2005, right after we started this new location, we were looking into getting a new

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 building, and at that point, we needed to get insurance on our lead pastor to get leverage at the bank and

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 discovered that he had multiple myeloma, and so the mission of our church became the healing of our

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 pastor, and so our church was growing at an exponential rate, you know, in those first 10 years, and then all

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 of a sudden, our mission became that he would get better, so throughout all of that, we stayed about the

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 same size of the community. Judah took over the church in 2009, and a year later, his dad passed away, so it was, you know,

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 then we went through quite a bit of a season of transition because Judah was transitioning to church and

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 mourning his dad's life at the same time. This is when I was out the UD, so I was kind of in a little bit of a bubble,

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 because I'm with a bunch of young college students that have no connection to our past, and so, you know,

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 I wasn't in the middle of all that pain as much as a lot of our community was here, and then I came

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 over and helped lead our main location for four years and the transition into a leadership team role,

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 which is where I sit now, and helping resource all of our locations, and I'm primarily involved with

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 expansion and growth for our church. There is so much really good there, especially, you know, I heard

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 succession plans, health longevity of being on staff, and really, like, and that's, that's like the first

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 question I would ask, and that's not even what I wanted to dig into, so you started, I mean, I'm not

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 saying you were in the mailroom, but you were basically, like, cleaning toilets. Is that a literal thing?

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 My second year as a college student, I started, I became a janitor at the church. I was a waiter in a

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 restaurant, and so I started, yeah, cleaning, literally cleaning toilets. I was also leading

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 worship as a volunteer, so I was doing all the music for our youth ministry, and I, there was a few

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 Sundays where I was literally on the clock emptying garbages, but this is back in the day where you wore

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 suits to church every Sunday, and so I bought my suit at, we also had a little, like, thrift shop

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 in our lobby, so I bought my suit for $20 that I wore almost every week, and what, there were a few

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 Sundays where I was cleaning toilets with the suit on in between services, and I'd get on the stage and

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 I'd lead worship, and our auditorium seats about 2,500, so I'd be leading worship in front of 2,000

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 people, and then during service break, I'd be emptying garbages, so yeah, that was real.

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 That's an interesting stage of life, definitely. So we've talked about this on the podcast, and I'm

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 just going to be completely transparent right here. I haven't had a ministry position longer than four

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 years. You're looking at something where, I'm doing bad math in my head, but 15, 16, 17 years, I think,

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 right? 19 years. 19, like I said, bad math, 19 years. How? How did you manage to stay in a position

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 for 19 years? Like, what does that look like for you? Probably because our church changes so much,

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 so it doesn't feel like I'm in one position. I mean, my role, I've probably only been in one,

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 the similar role for more than three years at a time. We're a pretty younger staff. It hasn't always

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 been like that, being our pastor now is 40 years old, and he took over the church at 31, and so that's

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 probably a lot of it. I'm also, I love the vision of the church. I love, I have a long-term relationship

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 with Jude and Chelsea. I mean, I was 17, and I went on a ministry trip with him when they were engaged to

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 be married, and when they were on this trip, it's me, a 17-year-old with an engaged couple

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 on a 10-hour drive into Canada, and there were times where Judah would go off to study, and I'd sit in a

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 coffee shop with this fiance. It was bizarre. I'm just saying, we go way back, and so I just think

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 there's something there, and we also complement each other. Judah is an artist. He is a gifted

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 communicator. I'm the first person in my family to be in ministry. My dad is a mechanical engineer,

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 so even the way my brain is wired, like I connect with Judah. I've preached a lot. I did all of that,

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 but I'm also a little bit more of a tactical, mathematical-minded individual, so we just have

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 a long history, so we connect really well, but I'm also very different than him. Wow. That's exciting

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 how you found somebody that's like complementary, and you connect with each other, and completing

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 that package. So you were with the city, and so now you're in the midst of a rebrand or something

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 heading into church home, and I know you first came on my radar, honestly. I found you on Fox News.

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 I think I ran an article about this guy named Judah Smith who's trying to pastor people

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 digitally on his phone, and it's just like, what's going on? So I started digging and doing

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 some research, and honestly, just right now, the number one blog on my website is what I wrote about

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 you guys, so I don't know if like people are still hitting on Google or what. Honestly, I didn't

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 really dig into the analytics lately, but there still is a hot topic where people are trying to

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 figure out what church home is, so kind of help us here and really help us define what is church home?

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 What are you guys trying to do? So here's part of the story that's funny is, so we changed the name

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 of our church three years ago, and it, our church, we didn't have a digital app at that point.

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 We weren't, we didn't change the name of our church so that we could become a, you know, a massive

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 digital expression. I mean, the name of our church is not very innovative. In fact, we pushed back with Judah

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 quite a bit, like, hey, we can get like some professionals in here, like rebranding experts, and he's like,

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 no, I feel like God's calling our church to be church like a home, and this is three years ago,

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 and possibly to have church in your home, and, and, but church should feel like a home setting. It should

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 feel like a refuge. It should feel like a space where you breathe, and I, I feel like it's supposed

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 to change. So it was, it was a bit of an identity emphasizeser when we made that transition. Little

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 did we know how important technology would be to complete that mission. I mean, we're still learning

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 how that all is, but we, there's people that have come up to me and been like, okay, so I know City

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 Church, which is our old name, but there's a million city churches now. When we started in 1992, it was

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 like this super innovative name, but we were City Church, and when we changed, people thought like,

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 okay, so is City Church like your building church, and Church Home is like your digital church? It's just,

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 it just happens to be that within a year of us changing our name, that this opportunity came

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 for us around using digital technology to help us create communities, hopefully all over the world.

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 The, the goal of, of, of Church Home is to create churches in homes, and part one is to create a

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 church environment, maybe in a physical building that feels like home, but then there's a second part

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 that's creating churches in homes. Unpack, I mean, both if you want, but really that second piece of

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 what does it look like to create a church in a home? Yeah, I mean, first thing I'll say is, I think,

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 I think it's important we don't get hung up on a facility, because it's not about a building,

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 it's not about a home, it's, it's way more about church. We all know this, it's no question for any

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 church leader that a building is not a church, and that's the same thing, you know, I think that's

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 probably why in your blog in the past, and maybe when we launched our app, people, there were some

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 people that had a little bit of a hard time, because they're like, an app is not church, and we're like,

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 we're not saying it is, but we do believe just like a building facilitates church, we believe that an

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 app facilitates church, and, and I will also say this, that the first 300 years of the church,

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 there weren't buildings, like, the buildings were, didn't get created until Constantine built them,

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 and so, like, when we, when we look at churches, I mean, and throughout the New Testament, Paul is

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 saying, hey, greet those people, and if you, if you look at it, says the ones who meet at the church in

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 your home, like, people just found whatever means possible they could to build the community of

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 church, and I, I think culturally, um, that we, we put limitations around the church that don't need to

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 be there, um, and, and I think that's kind of the heart, I mean, if, if you take the digital mentality

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 that's way broader, not talking church, but, you know, we have Amazon in our backyard, um, Silicon

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 Valley's just down the road, and Seattle is becoming a new Silicon Valley, I mean, literally, our real

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 estate has doubled in the last three years, because a lot of companies from San Francisco are moving up

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 here, uh, Apple's moving their headquarters to Seattle, um, Microsoft is literally a stone's throw

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 from where I'm sitting right now, and the list goes on, so we're in a very, we're in a very tech-based

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 area, the way, the way the tech world thinks is they, they literally are, are constantly adapting,

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 constantly changing, and they're constantly thinking one thing, let's use whatever means humanly possible

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 to sell what we have, to give what we have, and so my opinion, like, why shouldn't the church think

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 that much, that, that way, even more so, like, let's use any means we possibly can, I mean, Amazon

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 started in Seattle last year, they built a whole department, invested millions of dollars into

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 downtown, this thing called Amazon Go, it's a grocery store that you walk in with your phone in your

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 pocket, grab your stuff, and walk out without checking out, your phone just does it for you, everybody's

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 like, this is going to be the next idea, well, they closed it two months ago, they're like, didn't

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 work, and by the way, all of your staff that did this, you don't have a job anymore, like, and, but at

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 the same time, they just started a new store in Seattle, because they're testing it, um, called the

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 four-star, and what, what that is, is the top 100 four-star rated products on Amazon, they're selling

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 in person, and they're, I mean, they're totally random, but they're all the top sellers, and

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 Amazon's just going, it's not about an app, it's not about online, it's not about a building, it's, let's

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 find any way possible to sell, and so, if a building helps us, let's do it, let's find it out, and so, so much

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 more, I think, why, why doesn't the church think the same way? Yeah, there, there's that bit of

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 experimenting that, you know, the church has, and we talked about this recently, we had Seth Muse on, who's a

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 communications director at a church, and, and we've just talked so much about this idea of the church

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 doesn't experiment, it's, it's afraid to, it's, it gets locked in this model of, of the, of the brick and

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 the mortar building of, oh, well, we've been doing church services for years, we shouldn't have to do

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 another thing, because the, the church service worked 20 years ago, 30 years ago, 50 years ago, 100 years ago,

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 way back in Constantine, I mean, that's, that's a great illustration right there of, we've been stuck

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 in, in a model, and are maybe trying to, to break free of, of that model, churches like yours with, with

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 church home, you know, wrestling with what it looks like to do something different, and honestly, like,

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 as I was doing some digging, I'll never forget this tweet, and I, we may, I've discussed it, I think,

00:15:35.660 --> 00:15:41.540
 previously, but literally, somebody said in a, in a tweet, and Twitter's Twitter, I get it, I don't know what

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 the F-bomb you think this is, but don't call it church, that was the church, that was someone involved

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 in the church's response to church home experimenting with doing something different, like, and there's a whole

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 bunch of issues with that, but how much of that have you guys felt? Seattle's sheltered, I'll say that, like,

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 we're, we're, we're probably disconnected from the, and it's probably a good thing, there's probably some

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 bad things to it, but we're disconnected from a lot of different areas with, like, the, sometimes the

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 competition and the critics in the church world, and I mean, honestly, what we're passionate about, we're

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 based in Seattle, we have a location in Los Angeles, and, and we're believing to really reach people and

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 engage with them at a high level, much broader than that, clearly, but I think we've been sheltered

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 from a lot of it, I mean, I would say this, like, we, a lot of our staff, for example, I mean, they

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 probably are, it's not like we regulate their social media, but we don't talk about our press this way

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 or that way that much, it, you know, there were some in the beginning that were kind of, that were kind

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 of fun to hear, just like, it was like, wow, people really have an opinion about this, I'm kind of

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 shocked, but there, so there might still be a lot going on, I literally would tell you, I don't even

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 know, I, I think we just have our head down, we're trying to learn, we're trying to experiment,

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 we're trying to listen to, to users, not to critics, or another way, that's a, those are kind of digital

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 terms, but, you know, we're trying to listen to people that are, that are engaging with our community

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 and what their experience is and how we can make that better, that, that's what I have my focused

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 attention on, but that's what our team has their focused attention on. Yeah, what, what is a, so what

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 does, what does church look like in church home? Obviously, physical buildings, I think people can

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 put it together, but, you know, maybe since let's not listen to the critics, but let's focus on

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 what is this? What, what's, what's the end game? What's the actual church going through? Here's what I

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 think people get hung up on. I mean, to answer your question, we have, we have five locations that are

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 buildings. We have staff, pastors, we have gatherings on Sundays and Wednesday night, but, and we also

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 have this, this digital tool that is what we're passionate about is that we call it a digital tool,

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 by the way, that it's a, it's a tool that helps engagement. I'm going to use a term that's nothing

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 rocket science, but I think this is what get people get hung up with on maybe this critic who said,

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 this is not church and is, is this, well, people need to meet in person. And I mean, that's a good

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 question. I don't know if anybody can conclude on that, but I will tell you our goal,

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 is that people would meet in person. So what we are hoping to do with mobile technology

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 is help people, whether they meet in our buildings or they meet in another way that we can create a

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 space where people can, can build relationships and meet face to face. So, and whatever means

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 possible for that to facilitate, there is massive benefits to digital engagement and technology.

00:19:06.780 --> 00:19:13.340
 I believe majority of that and get majority of that is, is really benefit on the front end.

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 I asked the guys at Life.Church when we were first exploring this, you know, because from what,

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 the little bit that I know, they're some of the people that really started this. And I talked to their

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 online pastor and he's like, man, people are actually engaged more on online than they do in

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 person. You know, I'll walk past somebody in our lobby and they won't say hi to me and they'll get

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 on their phone and they'll text me or vice versa. People will be extremely vulnerable. And let's just

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 be honest. It's because there's anonymity. You know, you can, you can talk about, I had a terrible day

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 today. This, this, and this, and this, and just open up very quickly with complete strangers.

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 That's actually something that we can really use for our benefit. Like we can use that vulnerability

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 to create connections that hopefully lead to people meeting together in person.

00:20:05.080 --> 00:20:11.480
 So what church home looks like is, I say all that to say, church home is very passionate about

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 being church like a home. And what I mean by that again, is that, is that you have a safe place,

00:20:17.580 --> 00:20:22.680
 a small church that happens to have a lot of people. So we want to have a small church environment

00:20:22.680 --> 00:20:28.860
 and it just, our prayer is that we reach as many people as possible. So, uh, it happens to have a

00:20:28.860 --> 00:20:32.520
 lot of people, but it might meet in small environments. Or if you're in an environment, it's a large,

00:20:32.620 --> 00:20:37.140
 we want to feel very small. We want to feel very authentic. We want to feel very genuine.

00:20:37.800 --> 00:20:42.540
 We want everybody to know somebody and somebody to know you at the end of the day. Is it about a

00:20:42.540 --> 00:20:47.560
 group's program? Is it about this? I think, I think programs are overrated programs help us

00:20:47.560 --> 00:20:52.220
 facilitate a cultural value. Our cultural value would be that when you're going through a hard time,

00:20:52.220 --> 00:20:58.200
 do you actually know somebody that you can call or text or connect with? And that person doesn't

00:20:58.200 --> 00:21:03.060
 need to have the answers. They seem to be able to be there and be like, Hey, I'm sorry. I'll pray with

00:21:03.060 --> 00:21:08.480
 you. I'm for you. And we all know that the people we want to go to in those moments, it's not somebody

00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:12.400
 that's got a solution, but it's somebody that's going to empathize with us. It's going to be

00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:17.520
 somebody that's going to be there for us. And so we're trying to find any way possible to help

00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:24.440
 facilitate easy connection. Um, even like I said, for people that come in our buildings, we, I think one

00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:29.800
 of the negative aspects of the mega church world in which we live in, of which we are one, by the way,

00:21:29.800 --> 00:21:36.220
 um, is it so easy to slip in and slip out. It's so easy to come to a gathering and think a gathering

00:21:36.220 --> 00:21:43.840
 is church. And, and as we know, church is so much more than that. And, and so we're, we're kind of,

00:21:44.320 --> 00:21:51.580
 we're, we're trying to think of a community that engages daily rather than Sunday. Um, and let's use

00:21:51.580 --> 00:21:59.000
 Sunday or a gathering as a tool to help people engage daily. Um, so that's what, that's, that's what we're

00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:04.400
 passionate about church home. So often we hear with church online or technology that, that it, that it

00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:09.740
 conflicts, that it competes with the physical building. Like I've literally had conversation

00:22:09.740 --> 00:22:16.480
 where pastors are debating about shutting down church online because they're seeing church online

00:22:16.480 --> 00:22:22.680
 numbers skyrocket and they're seeing physical numbers shrink. So rather than working with the

00:22:22.680 --> 00:22:27.220
 thing that's being successful, they want to shut down the successful thing in hopes that since they're

00:22:27.220 --> 00:22:32.060
 not able to access the content, the services, the messages online, they'll go back to the physical

00:22:32.060 --> 00:22:37.920
 buildings, the brick and mortar and see it there. What you've done with church home is you've managed to

00:22:37.920 --> 00:22:45.500
 develop a strategy or maybe unpack what this looks like, where your church home app, your digital

00:22:45.500 --> 00:22:52.720
 strategy, um, compliments what's happening in the physical, as well as coexisting outside for,

00:22:52.880 --> 00:23:00.120
 for an online audience. He kind of unpack a little bit about how the mobile works alongside and doesn't

00:23:00.120 --> 00:23:02.720
 compete with the physical.

00:23:02.720 --> 00:23:08.440
 Well, let me use a few words that you just used to kind of give context. First off, let me actually

00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:17.520
 say it does compete. And I think it's important for, for any leader to go, if I leave it to itself,

00:23:17.520 --> 00:23:26.140
 they do contrast and they do compete. But if we lead it, they cannot, and I actually don't even want to

00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:32.660
 use the word compliment that they can do their part in their own space to help make the whole experience

00:23:32.660 --> 00:23:38.020
 better. Let me give you an example. When Nordstrom first started their digital and Nordstrom's also

00:23:38.020 --> 00:23:46.220
 local community here, uh, company here. And, um, when they first started their digital online presence

00:23:46.220 --> 00:23:53.340
 for selling stuff, what ended up happening without them trying to was their stores and their digital

00:23:53.340 --> 00:23:57.920
 ended up competing against each other. And so their leadership got together and said,

00:23:58.020 --> 00:24:05.680
 this isn't going to work. The option that I think what churches and what church leaders have thought

00:24:05.680 --> 00:24:13.020
 is, um, you can have three options, keep them competing. And that's a pain. Um, or shut one of

00:24:13.020 --> 00:24:17.880
 them down. We should shut buildings down. No, we should shut online down. But when you think in business

00:24:17.880 --> 00:24:24.240
 terms, how, how terrible would that be for Nordstrom to make that conclusion? Of course, the answer is

00:24:24.240 --> 00:24:30.160
 one of the two, you let them keep competing, which I don't think is a good solution, or let's find out

00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:36.640
 a way that these can work together. Not, and, and, and I agree. There's a complimentary aspect to it,

00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:44.660
 but there's also an idea of going, let's let digital make physical better and let's make physical,

00:24:44.660 --> 00:24:49.740
 make digital better. So what I mean by this is this, and this is what we're endeavoring to do. And I will

00:24:49.740 --> 00:24:58.060
 say that, um, we are trying and we are growing and we are learning. And I think we've got some great

00:24:58.060 --> 00:25:02.500
 ideas. And I think what we're doing right now is also awesome. But I think some of the new things

00:25:02.500 --> 00:25:08.460
 we're going to be trying in the future are going to even make this even better that you have, you have

00:25:08.460 --> 00:25:15.840
 the exact same experience, whether your first interaction with church home is digital and online,

00:25:15.840 --> 00:25:22.440
 or if it's in person. And I'm actually beginning to see that the most ideal scenario is your first

00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:29.020
 impression to be digitally, which leads to in person. So I'm going to use in person on purpose

00:25:29.020 --> 00:25:35.040
 rather than, than buildings. Because again, I don't want us to be limited to buildings being physical,

00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:41.280
 physical that I think we see in the Bible is people meeting with people. Um, and obviously there's the

00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:45.200
 whole government structure church. Of course we believe in all that, but I'm just saying it's face

00:25:45.200 --> 00:25:53.740
 to face engagement. So, um, what we have had, and this actually did happen for us is that we, when we

00:25:53.740 --> 00:26:01.180
 launched our app, um, we, we realized quickly that we had to start creating workflows. How is this all

00:26:01.180 --> 00:26:05.180
 going to work? And so we started creating all these workflows and all of a sudden we kind of had two

00:26:05.180 --> 00:26:10.940
 churches. We had workflows for all of our buildings and our mega church. And then we had workflows for

00:26:10.940 --> 00:26:16.620
 all of our digital. And I mean, we had staff literally just to tell you the conflict to be

00:26:16.620 --> 00:26:20.860
 vulnerable with you. We had staff being like, I kind of feel like we're going back to the book Exodus

00:26:20.860 --> 00:26:25.680
 and you're asking us to build more brick with less straw and mud. Like, I feel like you just gave me

00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:29.720
 a second job. I can't keep up with both of these. Cause, cause we were like, we're going to,

00:26:29.780 --> 00:26:32.900
 we're going to seamlessly bring these together. All of us are going to be involved. You're,

00:26:33.060 --> 00:26:34.800
 Everybody's going to have a job on the app.

00:26:34.940 --> 00:26:36.440
 Everybody's going to have a job in person.

00:26:37.380 --> 00:26:41.840
 And that's still, you know, part of being a team is you just jump in and do it.

00:26:42.460 --> 00:26:48.060
 What we're working on right now is trying to go, let's think of one workflow that seamlessly

00:26:48.060 --> 00:26:54.740
 has digital, physical, physical, digital, physical, rather than digital, digital, digital,

00:26:54.740 --> 00:26:57.800
 digital, digital, digital, or physical, physical, physical, physical, physical.

00:26:58.260 --> 00:27:02.860
 Let's have one workflow that doesn't cause these things to compete because they naturally

00:27:02.860 --> 00:27:06.340
 do, but they actually seamlessly work together.

00:27:07.160 --> 00:27:14.560
 And there's a term that is funny in industry right now that's called digital.

00:27:15.140 --> 00:27:17.980
 Like I said, you can tell so many jokes around it.

00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:20.700
 But this term is exactly that.

00:27:20.700 --> 00:27:28.460
 It's the seamless cohesion of physical and digital workflows working together in cohesion

00:27:28.460 --> 00:27:31.440
 to build the best product we possibly can.

00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:33.080
 So church is not a business.

00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:33.920
 It's not a product.

00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:34.880
 You hear my heart.

00:27:35.520 --> 00:27:37.760
 But that's what we're endeavoring to do.

00:27:38.420 --> 00:27:40.340
 And it's a constant journey.

00:27:40.780 --> 00:27:43.100
 It's a constant adaptation.

00:27:43.940 --> 00:27:48.580
 And it's a constant learning from users on how we can do that better.

00:27:49.040 --> 00:27:53.500
 Mark, you made a comment earlier about how programs and processes need to work together.

00:27:54.000 --> 00:27:59.180
 I thought that was great because so often, you know, I find that we get so caught up in

00:27:59.180 --> 00:28:02.560
 terms of what the true purpose of the program is.

00:28:02.720 --> 00:28:07.260
 And so can you give me some, some like more specific examples as to how that works out with

00:28:07.260 --> 00:28:10.660
 church home in terms of, Hey, here's the concept that we want to see happen.

00:28:11.220 --> 00:28:13.640
 How are we going to do this in the digital space?

00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:18.580
 And we're open to whatever ideas come with it as far as how that's going to work.

00:28:19.020 --> 00:28:19.160
 Sure.

00:28:19.400 --> 00:28:21.840
 I'll tell you some we are doing right now.

00:28:22.240 --> 00:28:25.840
 I'll also tell you some of the problems we have with those, which is why we're trying to

00:28:25.840 --> 00:28:28.180
 explore other ways.

00:28:28.340 --> 00:28:29.640
 But they're, they're good problems.

00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:33.640
 So it's, it's, there's probably always going to be some problems with everything we do,

00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:35.240
 which is what keeps us having a job.

00:28:36.740 --> 00:28:42.360
 But what we're doing right, right now, which has been a big aspect of, of what we're trying

00:28:42.360 --> 00:28:48.500
 to leverage content to, to, to, to be a hook for people to engage with.

00:28:48.980 --> 00:28:54.080
 And our, our goal is that those people would, would consider starting groups, leading groups.

00:28:54.160 --> 00:28:56.500
 So obviously groups is a, is a very big aspect.

00:28:57.260 --> 00:28:59.560
 We want to make it super easy for people to lead groups.

00:28:59.820 --> 00:29:05.400
 One thing has been very specific as we have, we've, we've tried to really streamline our

00:29:05.400 --> 00:29:08.680
 technology rather than having like 15 different on-ramps.

00:29:09.360 --> 00:29:12.600
 As narrowing as it is, we've said, this is our on-ramp.

00:29:13.300 --> 00:29:18.360
 So we don't, we're not like communicating to our church and say, Hey, go use this technology,

00:29:18.480 --> 00:29:19.760
 go use that, go use this.

00:29:19.880 --> 00:29:21.580
 And I think there's benefits to that.

00:29:21.680 --> 00:29:26.720
 But I think what I would recommend to anybody is curate those different technologies that other

00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:31.260
 people created like Facebook groups or any of those try to curate them to work as one seamless

00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:33.260
 thing, customized for, for your community.

00:29:34.260 --> 00:29:37.260
 So for us, we, we went all in with this mobile app.

00:29:37.820 --> 00:29:43.620
 Are we going to have, use some of that in a, in a, an online web-based experience?

00:29:43.980 --> 00:29:44.360
 Sure.

00:29:44.360 --> 00:29:49.220
 We'd like to build that out more, but we went first with a mobile app because that's way

00:29:49.220 --> 00:29:50.280
 more where people are at.

00:29:51.060 --> 00:29:53.320
 I mean, who even remembers amazon.com?

00:29:53.320 --> 00:29:56.840
 Like when I'm not saying people don't use it, but that's where Amazon started.

00:29:57.100 --> 00:30:03.320
 But what made Amazon, Amazon is that app because we all know we spend way too much money because

00:30:03.320 --> 00:30:06.560
 we think of something and then we buy it right then on our phone.

00:30:06.880 --> 00:30:12.480
 So mobile technology is very different than online technology and mobile technology is primarily

00:30:12.480 --> 00:30:18.320
 about the immediate and it's also primarily about engagement because you can engage right

00:30:18.320 --> 00:30:18.940
 then or right there.

00:30:19.440 --> 00:30:23.040
 I mean, think about how different social media would be if we didn't have mobile phones.

00:30:23.380 --> 00:30:24.660
 It'd be extremely different.

00:30:25.360 --> 00:30:29.160
 And so I think streamlining what you're going to choose, that's what we chose.

00:30:29.260 --> 00:30:30.420
 That's why we went that direction.

00:30:31.140 --> 00:30:36.280
 Um, I also believe that, that businesses that are using mobile technology appropriately are

00:30:36.280 --> 00:30:38.380
 the ones that are really thriving.

00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:44.320
 And I don't think, um, in my opinion, I don't think churches have really used mobile technology

00:30:44.320 --> 00:30:44.980
 for what it is.

00:30:44.980 --> 00:30:47.560
 It's become like an app version of a website.

00:30:47.940 --> 00:30:50.040
 Um, it's, it's not really interactive.

00:30:50.040 --> 00:30:51.460
 It's not very engaging.

00:30:51.460 --> 00:30:58.380
 It's not something that is, um, addicting and let's be honest, these things are addicting.

00:30:58.380 --> 00:31:03.220
 So why not use that addiction to do it for something awesome like Jesus and church?

00:31:03.660 --> 00:31:06.600
 So that's, that's what, that's what we're on for sure.

00:31:06.840 --> 00:31:11.100
 Some of the other things we're working on right now is we do still presently have separate

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:11.620
 workflows.

00:31:12.240 --> 00:31:19.700
 Um, and what we are working on a new, new thing that will allow us to do this, that your first

00:31:19.700 --> 00:31:25.140
 step, uh, for example, I think probably somewhere in the nineties, uh, or maybe even as early

00:31:25.140 --> 00:31:30.100
 as the eighties, um, we can thank Bill Hybels and lots of other great, you know, entrepreneurial

00:31:30.100 --> 00:31:36.340
 creative thinking pastors that were like, Hey, let's make, let's make Sundays the, for the

00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:37.460
 front door of church.

00:31:37.460 --> 00:31:42.020
 Like we're going to make it open for, for non-Christians and make it a space where people

00:31:42.020 --> 00:31:42.720
 feel safe.

00:31:43.280 --> 00:31:49.500
 And Sundays became that what we're wanting is we're wanting, um, this phone, this, this

00:31:49.500 --> 00:31:56.360
 digital app, or maybe the online experience to become the front door church that it's way

00:31:56.360 --> 00:31:57.520
 less intimidating.

00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:04.420
 Let's just be flat out honest to say, Hey, uh, would you consider checking out this cool

00:32:04.420 --> 00:32:04.780
 content?

00:32:04.780 --> 00:32:09.040
 This is an app that, um, a community, the community I'm a part of is, is leading.

00:32:09.040 --> 00:32:13.720
 And, um, rather than going like, Hey, do you want to darken the doors of a church building

00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.480
 this Sunday for people that don't go to church?

00:32:15.580 --> 00:32:20.300
 There's so many preconceived ideas about that, but there's so little preconceived ideas about

00:32:20.300 --> 00:32:21.120
 church on an app.

00:32:21.320 --> 00:32:25.760
 So most people I'll tell you our experience, most people are like a hundred percent.

00:32:25.840 --> 00:32:26.380
 Y'all check it out.

00:32:26.420 --> 00:32:26.820
 That's cool.

00:32:26.980 --> 00:32:27.160
 Wow.

00:32:27.160 --> 00:32:27.800
 This is awesome.

00:32:27.860 --> 00:32:30.780
 Like, and you can show it to them real quick, the hairdresser.

00:32:30.900 --> 00:32:31.580
 Hey, check this out.

00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:32.380
 Oh, that's kind of cool.

00:32:32.900 --> 00:32:38.300
 So, um, we're thinking digital really is a great first step.

00:32:38.780 --> 00:32:40.900
 So I'll give you an example right now on Sundays.

00:32:40.980 --> 00:32:45.560
 If you come to one of our buildings, if you raise your hand or respond in some way,

00:32:45.560 --> 00:32:51.140
 to say, I want to follow Jesus, you know, we have our, our assimilation steps, workflows,

00:32:51.140 --> 00:32:52.780
 and it's usually as simple.

00:32:52.900 --> 00:32:57.560
 Ours are very low compared to most churches, but it's usually as simple as, uh, Hey, we've

00:32:57.560 --> 00:32:59.280
 got people at our next steps bar in the lobby.

00:32:59.560 --> 00:33:01.380
 We have prayer on tap in the lobby.

00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:02.180
 Go check it out.

00:33:02.440 --> 00:33:05.480
 And, and, um, you know, we'd love to connect with you.

00:33:05.640 --> 00:33:07.580
 We got a couple of different things people can do.

00:33:08.140 --> 00:33:13.220
 Um, what we would like to do is build our technology out appropriately so that whether you're

00:33:13.220 --> 00:33:19.760
 in your barber shop or you are at church, the first step is exactly the same.

00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:23.560
 Download the app and, uh, tell us a little bit about yourself.

00:33:23.560 --> 00:33:29.660
 So we're going to build out kind of a space where, um, the onboarding process is, uh, is

00:33:29.660 --> 00:33:31.160
 us getting to know the user.

00:33:31.520 --> 00:33:38.100
 And then that space will really allow us the ability to engage with them customized and

00:33:38.100 --> 00:33:40.840
 kind of help them find their next step in engagement.

00:33:41.300 --> 00:33:45.420
 So regardless of whether you're in a building or you're engaging from a barber shop three

00:33:45.420 --> 00:33:49.920
 states away, the goal is that once you download this app and you go through kind of an opening

00:33:49.920 --> 00:33:55.800
 process, it'll immediately connect you into a space, a smaller space where you can engage

00:33:55.800 --> 00:34:00.360
 with other users around your location so you can start to get to know people.

00:34:00.600 --> 00:34:03.800
 And then hopefully eventually you naturally get to know them online.

00:34:03.900 --> 00:34:05.900
 You'll be like, Hey, you want to meet up at a coffee shop?

00:34:05.960 --> 00:34:06.980
 I'd love to get to know you more.

00:34:07.500 --> 00:34:11.380
 So, uh, but we hope that's actually going to revolutionize the people who come to our

00:34:11.380 --> 00:34:11.740
 buildings.

00:34:11.740 --> 00:34:13.660
 Also that the same thing will happen.

00:34:14.020 --> 00:34:17.700
 They'll be put in a small space with a group of people that live, you know, in the Redmond

00:34:17.700 --> 00:34:18.820
 area around them.

00:34:18.940 --> 00:34:21.280
 Maybe they all work at Microsoft and be like, Hey, let's grab lunch.

00:34:21.580 --> 00:34:24.600
 During our lunch break today, I, you know, I've met you on this digitally.

00:34:24.840 --> 00:34:25.900
 Let's meet in person now.

00:34:26.780 --> 00:34:33.500
 So the, the app drives, it connects people who are geographically, um, similar and, and

00:34:33.500 --> 00:34:38.200
 connects them together to, in hopes of creating some sort of a biblical community.

00:34:38.640 --> 00:34:39.080
 Yeah.

00:34:39.080 --> 00:34:45.300
 What, I mean, in using church language here, but what else, um, like with, with the app at

00:34:45.300 --> 00:34:50.100
 all, I know a lot of times in physical brick and mortars, like there's next step classes,

00:34:50.620 --> 00:34:57.360
 101, 201, 301, 401, you know, connect to God, other serving, um, mission, you know, just

00:34:57.360 --> 00:34:59.320
 different strategies that are out there.

00:34:59.560 --> 00:35:03.240
 Do you guys implement any of those strategies on your app?

00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.220
 Are those strategies on, in the physical church?

00:35:06.220 --> 00:35:09.520
 Like what, what are those processes kind of look like for you?

00:35:09.860 --> 00:35:14.340
 Well, let me preface this with that, with this first two, the guy who launched it, one

00:35:14.340 --> 00:35:19.140
 of the top investors for Airbnb and the guy who launched PayPal said, if you're not embarrassed

00:35:19.140 --> 00:35:23.480
 by the first expression of your technology, you launched too late.

00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:29.440
 So, um, there are aspects of our app that I so wish were already better and were better

00:35:29.440 --> 00:35:33.760
 from the beginning, but we took that as a premise to go, let's go, let's get out there

00:35:33.760 --> 00:35:35.120
 and we'll make it better as we go.

00:35:35.260 --> 00:35:39.840
 It is getting more systematized and strategic, uh, upfront.

00:35:40.220 --> 00:35:45.160
 We've just put all that content on there and we've, and we've, we've allowed, uh, on-demand

00:35:45.160 --> 00:35:48.140
 version of chat in all of, in all of those spaces.

00:35:48.140 --> 00:35:50.700
 So, I mean, just if we really just boil it down and simple.

00:35:50.920 --> 00:35:52.860
 So we have our grow classes on there.

00:35:53.100 --> 00:35:57.740
 We have content about how to get baptized and the basics of what we believe about biblical

00:35:57.740 --> 00:35:58.260
 baptism.

00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:59.620
 And we encourage people to do it.

00:35:59.720 --> 00:36:03.760
 And here's, here's what we see biblically is the, is the base that you need.

00:36:04.080 --> 00:36:05.300
 Go do it and let us know.

00:36:05.480 --> 00:36:08.900
 Like we're also here, come to our church, come to our building if you want.

00:36:09.300 --> 00:36:13.100
 But we also believe that the Bible gives preference for this over here, if you do it in this way.

00:36:13.260 --> 00:36:15.080
 So we have that content on there.

00:36:15.080 --> 00:36:20.820
 Um, yes, with kind of some of this new stuff that I was just describing that we're trying

00:36:20.820 --> 00:36:27.160
 to get better at is we're trying to use the technology to help kind of lead somebody through

00:36:27.160 --> 00:36:28.020
 those steps.

00:36:28.620 --> 00:36:34.260
 Um, so, you know, if, if you're, if you're engaging and you, and you, and you're, you want

00:36:34.260 --> 00:36:36.880
 to step into leadership, it's a very clear what to do.

00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:38.300
 And all of that is at your fingertips.

00:36:38.740 --> 00:36:43.320
 And we want it to be in an engaging space where you're, you're, you're simultaneously engaging

00:36:43.320 --> 00:36:50.420
 with humans, uh, not just digital content and, and going through checking off boxes, because

00:36:50.420 --> 00:36:53.800
 as we all know, the devil can do that and he can be leading in our church.

00:36:53.920 --> 00:37:00.040
 So, um, but, but at the same time, there's just a massive level of, of trust also.

00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:06.000
 Um, so, you know, we, we also, we also really believe in, in, in, uh, you know, doing everything

00:37:06.000 --> 00:37:11.700
 we can with all those different processes, but, um, but also leading a space for people

00:37:11.700 --> 00:37:14.540
 to step, step in and, and give it a go.

00:37:15.100 --> 00:37:20.440
 So other things like volunteering, uh, a lot of it is around, is around chat and communication.

00:37:20.720 --> 00:37:25.660
 Like we haven't integrated at this point, like functional stuff that typical church things

00:37:25.660 --> 00:37:25.920
 do.

00:37:25.980 --> 00:37:31.140
 But I will say this, if you don't think about church via how to make Sunday happen, but

00:37:31.140 --> 00:37:36.880
 you make church more around like engagement and community, volunteering looks totally different.

00:37:37.040 --> 00:37:39.420
 It's not about getting volunteers at a door on Sunday.

00:37:39.800 --> 00:37:44.500
 It's about people serving their neighbors and it's about people doing different.

00:37:44.500 --> 00:37:46.260
 So we, we are, we are high on that.

00:37:46.380 --> 00:37:50.720
 We have these things called uplift projects and we do global uplift projects.

00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:57.640
 And, um, so like when the wildfires hit California, we did a response event last fall

00:37:57.640 --> 00:38:02.020
 where we literally did a live event, Q and R for 30 minutes.

00:38:02.240 --> 00:38:06.160
 And we just tried to raise money for, for, we, we picked an organization.

00:38:06.160 --> 00:38:07.220
 It was the firefighters.

00:38:07.880 --> 00:38:13.560
 And, um, you know, a lot of this is around, around finances, but, um, we, we literally brought

00:38:13.560 --> 00:38:16.280
 three people on live that their houses burned down.

00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:21.220
 We interviewed them, we talked to them about what the experience is like, and it was, it's

00:38:21.220 --> 00:38:22.080
 on our app right now.

00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:23.360
 So you have all that on demand.

00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:28.560
 Um, so there's lots of opportunities like that, but then we also encourage people to start

00:38:28.560 --> 00:38:29.380
 just like a group.

00:38:29.380 --> 00:38:34.600
 We encourage them to start what we call uplift groups, which are basically like service oriented,

00:38:34.920 --> 00:38:38.280
 volunteer oriented, um, uh, things.

00:38:38.280 --> 00:38:43.220
 So getting out and, and, and impacting your city, impacting your world.

00:38:43.220 --> 00:38:50.060
 So it's, it's really more around resourcing and empowering people to go do than it is around

00:38:50.060 --> 00:38:55.240
 like trying to collect people and having organization systems that help make Sunday happen.

00:38:55.500 --> 00:38:56.620
 Mark, that's fantastic.

00:38:56.620 --> 00:38:58.160
 Kind of begs the question a little bit.

00:38:58.180 --> 00:39:01.120
 And I know you guys got a physical location in Los Angeles as well.

00:39:01.640 --> 00:39:07.340
 Um, or do you have online digital communities, uh, that, that end up resulting in physical

00:39:07.340 --> 00:39:11.720
 locations or not, not locations in the sense of a physical campus, but outside of Seattle

00:39:11.720 --> 00:39:15.600
 and outside of LA, like in terms of these connections, is that happening with church home?

00:39:16.180 --> 00:39:18.940
 Yeah, we're, it, it, it organically has happened.

00:39:19.140 --> 00:39:19.300
 Yeah.

00:39:19.800 --> 00:39:24.740
 Uh, and we're, we're in, we're in beta, beta mode of that, meaning we're, we're exploring

00:39:24.740 --> 00:39:25.400
 that ourselves.

00:39:25.580 --> 00:39:29.240
 So yeah, we, we have a, um, we have, we have a handful.

00:39:29.580 --> 00:39:34.040
 Um, we probably have more than that that we know of too, but some that we're engaging

00:39:34.040 --> 00:39:39.920
 with, um, we, we have one in Seattle, uh, there's an area in Seattle called Bainbridge

00:39:39.920 --> 00:39:40.260
 Island.

00:39:40.420 --> 00:39:45.220
 So it's literally an Island that's that you have to take a boat to get to Seattle and it's

00:39:45.220 --> 00:39:45.940
 an Island life.

00:39:45.940 --> 00:39:47.380
 Like people don't want to leave the Island.

00:39:48.060 --> 00:39:52.780
 Um, and it's, it's a couple that's just hardcore that, that did commute to our church

00:39:52.780 --> 00:39:54.420
 hour and a half.

00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:57.500
 Um, but when this happened, they're like, awesome.

00:39:58.020 --> 00:39:59.780
 We can just invite people to our home.

00:39:59.860 --> 00:40:01.220
 So they just didn't, we didn't tell them to.

00:40:01.880 --> 00:40:03.760
 And, and we're like, awesome.

00:40:03.920 --> 00:40:05.540
 You know, what's kind of crazy about this?

00:40:05.920 --> 00:40:08.180
 Same thing about digital being a first impression.

00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:11.520
 I went, so I've, I've been to their, uh, they're on our app.

00:40:11.920 --> 00:40:17.160
 Um, we're calling them like a group at this point, but they do join our live gathering.

00:40:17.320 --> 00:40:18.480
 They meet in their home.

00:40:18.540 --> 00:40:19.560
 They worship together.

00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:21.500
 They, they always cook food.

00:40:21.780 --> 00:40:23.100
 He's a professional musician.

00:40:23.100 --> 00:40:26.120
 So he like has a studio at his house and they live out of their house.

00:40:26.200 --> 00:40:28.520
 Literally a really artistic couple.

00:40:29.100 --> 00:40:32.840
 And, um, all of the people, I can almost promise you this.

00:40:32.840 --> 00:40:39.200
 All the people that have come to their group wouldn't in no way ever get on a ferry and

00:40:39.200 --> 00:40:40.440
 ever come to one of our buildings.

00:40:40.940 --> 00:40:42.400
 They are not church people.

00:40:42.980 --> 00:40:44.060
 They're kind of spiritual.

00:40:45.120 --> 00:40:49.200
 Um, so when their friend said, Hey, we're doing this thing at our house, it's about Jesus

00:40:49.200 --> 00:40:50.080
 come over.

00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:51.300
 They're like, yeah, we'll come support you.

00:40:51.700 --> 00:40:57.720
 They're, I mean, people are open, but coming to a church building, especially it's an hour

00:40:57.720 --> 00:40:58.400
 and a half drive.

00:40:58.400 --> 00:40:59.560
 Like that's for the committed.

00:40:59.940 --> 00:41:03.720
 And this is a small community where just to be honest, like most church planters aren't

00:41:03.720 --> 00:41:05.000
 going like, let's go there.

00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:08.620
 Like it's, it's so, so we have a community like that there.

00:41:08.620 --> 00:41:13.680
 We have one, um, in Dallas that started, which I know we're all like, there's tons of churches

00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:16.400
 in Dallas, but, um, but it organically happened.

00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:17.340
 So we got around it.

00:41:17.340 --> 00:41:21.220
 It was this couple that literally they listened to our podcast.

00:41:21.620 --> 00:41:25.560
 Uh, liked our pastor liked our culture and they literally prayed.

00:41:25.560 --> 00:41:26.880
 They showed us this in their journal.

00:41:26.880 --> 00:41:27.800
 They're a younger couple.

00:41:27.800 --> 00:41:32.140
 And they said, Hey, um, we, we were praying for that.

00:41:32.140 --> 00:41:33.740
 We're going to find a church within a year.

00:41:33.900 --> 00:41:36.580
 And we're praying that we'll find a church just like church home.

00:41:36.580 --> 00:41:45.320
 Um, the next week we announced our app and they were like, Oh my word, let's start a group

00:41:45.320 --> 00:41:47.140
 within two weeks.

00:41:47.740 --> 00:41:51.920
 Because of the app, they had over 40 people come to their group that they'd never met.

00:41:52.160 --> 00:41:55.580
 They started in a cafe because they didn't want a bunch of strangers showing up their house.

00:41:55.580 --> 00:41:59.840
 Um, and they, they literally meet every week.

00:41:59.840 --> 00:42:04.920
 Now they, they, they've had baptisms and they've had people, they have people give their lives

00:42:04.920 --> 00:42:09.180
 to Jesus weekly, like raise their hand the same time that people are in our physical buildings.

00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:14.820
 Um, we are, we're presently constantly talking to them because we want to learn from them

00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:16.380
 more than we're asking them to learn from us.

00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:20.720
 Um, primarily more about what's the experience like, what are the pain points you're having?

00:42:21.120 --> 00:42:27.400
 Uh, we're also clearly at the same time, just completely giving them culture and DNA, uh,

00:42:27.500 --> 00:42:28.840
 every chance we have.

00:42:29.080 --> 00:42:31.520
 But yeah, we're, we're an exploration process in that.

00:42:31.680 --> 00:42:36.300
 So when people are starting them, we're, we're, we're, we're wanting to more hear from them

00:42:36.300 --> 00:42:37.220
 and see what's happening.

00:42:37.920 --> 00:42:40.200
 And, uh, and we're, we're kind of seeing where that goes.

00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:46.000
 I know we had, um, Danny from, uh, Elevation Church on, and she's the watch party pastor.

00:42:46.000 --> 00:42:50.540
 And she talked a lot about kind of what you're, you're describing at least Elevation spin on

00:42:50.540 --> 00:42:55.100
 that and they're constantly evolving and experimenting, uh, with that model over there.

00:42:55.400 --> 00:42:59.320
 Like Dallas, what does that service look like?

00:42:59.480 --> 00:43:02.920
 How, how are you training these people quality control?

00:43:02.920 --> 00:43:07.040
 Like that's, that's two time zones away from you on the West coast.

00:43:07.180 --> 00:43:11.880
 What, what is the practicalness of that worship experience look like?

00:43:12.120 --> 00:43:15.540
 So what I say right now could be completely different in six months.

00:43:15.660 --> 00:43:19.420
 So we're, we're, we're literally, we're literally in a place where we're just starting to lean in

00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:23.700
 to go, okay, let's collect a handful of these and let's learn from them.

00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:24.640
 Let's go to them.

00:43:24.740 --> 00:43:26.100
 Let's experience it with them.

00:43:26.520 --> 00:43:29.080
 It's just so different than I, it's funny.

00:43:29.120 --> 00:43:30.520
 I'm talking about using a digital tool.

00:43:30.520 --> 00:43:33.140
 And right now we're, you know, communicating over a computer.

00:43:33.620 --> 00:43:36.500
 Um, but it takes from a pastor.

00:43:36.560 --> 00:43:38.200
 It's so different when you meet in person.

00:43:38.260 --> 00:43:41.300
 That's why we want our digital tool to lead to in person.

00:43:41.300 --> 00:43:43.460
 So we want to go to them.

00:43:43.640 --> 00:43:44.900
 We want to learn from them.

00:43:45.460 --> 00:43:47.180
 Uh, but what's happening right now is this.

00:43:47.380 --> 00:43:50.440
 We have weekly communication with them because they want it.

00:43:50.860 --> 00:43:53.440
 They, they are communicating with us via text.

00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:57.880
 We have a Google hangout with all of our, what we call our global group leaders.

00:43:58.080 --> 00:44:00.480
 So we have, we, we do have groups.

00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:02.440
 All of them are engaging at different levels.

00:44:02.960 --> 00:44:08.320
 Um, but we have groups that are meeting in, uh, I think 80 different cities worldwide.

00:44:08.980 --> 00:44:13.340
 Um, and we actually do a Google hangout with all of those leaders.

00:44:13.340 --> 00:44:14.360
 And it's like a leaders meeting.

00:44:14.360 --> 00:44:15.660
 We talk, we talk culture.

00:44:16.020 --> 00:44:18.760
 We talk, we ask, we have a Q and a time with them.

00:44:18.960 --> 00:44:20.000
 They ask us questions.

00:44:20.520 --> 00:44:23.420
 Obviously some of them are engaging with us more than others.

00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:29.040
 Um, and so that's what kind of the support structure looks like, but we really hope to

00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:31.420
 build that out quite a bit moving forward.

00:44:32.280 --> 00:44:37.480
 Um, second, uh, how the services look like they get together.

00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:39.420
 There's usually some food when they're hanging out.

00:44:39.420 --> 00:44:43.800
 And then we have service that's scheduled at 6 PM Pacific time.

00:44:44.140 --> 00:44:46.060
 So for them, that's 8 PM.

00:44:46.560 --> 00:44:49.860
 So when it comes on, they just airplay it to their TV.

00:44:50.040 --> 00:44:55.080
 We're working on, we're working on, uh, we, we would like to, it just comes down to priorities,

00:44:55.080 --> 00:44:58.920
 uh, build a Roku and Apple TV app.

00:44:58.920 --> 00:45:01.160
 So they can just, it's, it's embedded in there.

00:45:01.460 --> 00:45:04.080
 Uh, but in the meantime, Chromecast is on there.

00:45:04.320 --> 00:45:08.380
 And so we're, you know, working on casting abilities, but they just cast it on their TV

00:45:08.380 --> 00:45:10.780
 and they literally watch the same experience.

00:45:10.780 --> 00:45:14.120
 At this point, we might do a different customized version for in-home.

00:45:14.880 --> 00:45:17.220
 Um, but right now it's the exact same experience.

00:45:17.220 --> 00:45:22.180
 If you were just taking it on the phone and on the phone, we have a highly moderated chat

00:45:22.180 --> 00:45:23.440
 area.

00:45:23.600 --> 00:45:24.740
 And it's fascinating.

00:45:24.840 --> 00:45:27.900
 The very beginning we have, what's our called our digital lobby.

00:45:27.900 --> 00:45:29.440
 It literally looks like our services.

00:45:29.440 --> 00:45:30.760
 So our services are unique.

00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:33.640
 Like, not like most churches, we worship at the end.

00:45:33.860 --> 00:45:34.600
 We sing at the end.

00:45:34.720 --> 00:45:35.640
 We preach at the beginning.

00:45:36.600 --> 00:45:38.640
 So, yes, I know it's very different.

00:45:39.160 --> 00:45:42.140
 Um, but when we start, it happened unplanned.

00:45:42.140 --> 00:45:45.800
 When we started our LA community, which we never planned doing, it started in a home, which

00:45:45.800 --> 00:45:46.180
 is funny.

00:45:47.060 --> 00:45:51.240
 Literally Judah was down there with a friend of his that's in the industry.

00:45:51.560 --> 00:45:54.280
 And he said, Hey, you're in town for a preach speaking engagement.

00:45:54.420 --> 00:45:58.840
 Will you, um, will you do Bible study at my house?

00:45:59.060 --> 00:46:01.880
 And they invited people that would not normally go to church.

00:46:02.420 --> 00:46:07.140
 And Judah has a gift definitely for communication, especially with unchurched people.

00:46:07.360 --> 00:46:12.680
 And, and that night there was like probably like 12 or 15 people and like two thirds of

00:46:12.680 --> 00:46:15.140
 the room responded to give their lives to Jesus.

00:46:15.140 --> 00:46:16.920
 And it was one of those moments like, wow, that was God.

00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:18.620
 And of course there was no music.

00:46:18.720 --> 00:46:19.260
 Of course there was nothing.

00:46:19.340 --> 00:46:20.720
 It was in a house and he got up and talked.

00:46:21.580 --> 00:46:24.040
 And so quickly, these are very unchurched people.

00:46:24.040 --> 00:46:27.380
 So if we started with like a song at the beginning, they would have been like, where are

00:46:27.380 --> 00:46:27.640
 we?

00:46:28.280 --> 00:46:33.840
 So that, that whole community in LA for a year, and it grew to like 300.

00:46:34.520 --> 00:46:37.980
 It was literally Judah hopping on a plane every Wednesday preaching and leaving.

00:46:38.200 --> 00:46:42.020
 And we would meet in a hotel ballroom with a microphone.

00:46:42.280 --> 00:46:42.680
 That was it.

00:46:43.260 --> 00:46:45.000
 And it grew to several hundred people.

00:46:45.360 --> 00:46:49.960
 And then we started introducing music at the end because it just felt right.

00:46:49.960 --> 00:46:53.720
 To be honest with all the people in the room, none of them had any experience in a church

00:46:53.720 --> 00:46:54.940
 setting like zero.

00:46:56.080 --> 00:47:00.700
 And, um, so we've used that to kind of reflect, you know, we think we, we can give some biblical

00:47:00.700 --> 00:47:01.260
 precedents.

00:47:01.380 --> 00:47:06.180
 We don't think it's like that level, but, uh, you know, we believe that worship is a

00:47:06.180 --> 00:47:07.280
 response to the gospel.

00:47:07.420 --> 00:47:12.000
 And so that's why we do it, but it's also, uh, disarming.

00:47:12.000 --> 00:47:16.740
 So literally, if you come to one of our services online or in person, uh, let's say it starts

00:47:16.740 --> 00:47:19.180
 at nine, nine Oh three, that preacher's up there.

00:47:19.320 --> 00:47:25.620
 Let's open our Bibles and, uh, and you're going, and then it leads to singing and then

00:47:25.620 --> 00:47:28.060
 like some closed comments and giving and stuff like that.

00:47:28.220 --> 00:47:29.620
 So we have a digital lobby.

00:47:30.340 --> 00:47:33.820
 It's like 10 minutes of chat and everybody's like, Hey, I'm here from Brazil.

00:47:33.960 --> 00:47:35.620
 I'm here for it's, it's pretty fun.

00:47:35.760 --> 00:47:39.380
 Cause you got people from all over the world, um, that are checking in.

00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:43.900
 And so there, there's a chat where we are super social.

00:47:44.240 --> 00:47:45.820
 We're like a family, we're church home.

00:47:46.280 --> 00:47:50.960
 So we're very social, um, half the time when the communicator gets up, he's like, okay,

00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:52.680
 we're starting like literally.

00:47:53.200 --> 00:47:55.520
 So people look around, it's like, Oh, I guess we should sit down now.

00:47:55.980 --> 00:48:02.060
 And, um, so people sit down and then we start the, then the communicator starts speaking and,

00:48:02.140 --> 00:48:06.500
 uh, it leads into music and it leads into a response time.

00:48:06.720 --> 00:48:09.020
 And all that time has got some chat in there.

00:48:09.080 --> 00:48:10.100
 You can turn the chat off.

00:48:10.100 --> 00:48:13.660
 If you turn your phone to landscape mode, or you can keep it on if you keep it up.

00:48:13.660 --> 00:48:18.960
 So whichever one you prefer, um, but it's, it's, it seems great.

00:48:19.320 --> 00:48:20.680
 So this is amazing.

00:48:20.680 --> 00:48:23.960
 And I know that in a lot of riots, it's innovative.

00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:28.400
 Um, are there any other churches or church movements that you guys are learning from right

00:48:28.400 --> 00:48:28.600
 now?

00:48:29.820 --> 00:48:32.220
 Yeah, we learned different things from different people.

00:48:32.620 --> 00:48:37.060
 Um, of course you're not gonna be surprised by the people I bring up, but in the church world,

00:48:37.060 --> 00:48:40.860
 uh, obviously elevation, what they're doing is unbelievable.

00:48:41.320 --> 00:48:43.200
 And I'm friends with a few of the people there.

00:48:43.660 --> 00:48:51.760
 Um, life church, uh, Craig is, is kind of like an uncle to pastor Judah, uh, to our pastor.

00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:55.160
 So he's constantly encouraging him in his innovation.

00:48:55.480 --> 00:48:58.980
 When we launched the app, you know, Craig was right there cheering him on.

00:48:59.600 --> 00:49:03.720
 Um, so, you know, I would say those two are some of the top.

00:49:03.860 --> 00:49:06.000
 I'm friends with a few other online pastors.

00:49:06.000 --> 00:49:13.360
 So like the pastoral engagement part, um, you know, uh, uh, uh, saddleback, um, I know they've

00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:15.320
 been doing online groups for a long time.

00:49:15.580 --> 00:49:17.040
 We've learned some from them.

00:49:17.380 --> 00:49:22.220
 Uh, but when it comes to the technology platform, to be honest, we're learning from people that

00:49:22.220 --> 00:49:23.200
 are not church people.

00:49:23.740 --> 00:49:31.740
 Um, the way this started was an entrepreneur that went to church twice a year was homesick

00:49:31.740 --> 00:49:36.780
 in November and he turned TV on and watch church on TV.

00:49:37.180 --> 00:49:39.860
 And he's a very successful, smart entrepreneur.

00:49:39.860 --> 00:49:44.260
 And he goes, the church hasn't updated their technology since 1970.

00:49:44.820 --> 00:49:46.760
 That was, he's like, they're still using broadcast TV.

00:49:47.520 --> 00:49:50.360
 Uh, they haven't even started using mobile technology.

00:49:50.360 --> 00:49:52.120
 And so he got this idea as an entrepreneur.

00:49:52.640 --> 00:49:55.540
 I want to build mobile technology like the church has never seen.

00:49:55.780 --> 00:49:59.980
 And so for him, it's a business, but, um, it's incredible guy.

00:49:59.980 --> 00:50:04.360
 And he, he, uh, is in LA and he actually reached out to us.

00:50:05.180 --> 00:50:12.180
 Um, and, and he started talking with us and they're the ones that have developed this, uh,

00:50:12.180 --> 00:50:13.120
 with us and for us.

00:50:13.140 --> 00:50:17.160
 It's an incredible partnership, but none of them.

00:50:17.160 --> 00:50:20.220
 And I mean, none of them are church people.

00:50:20.480 --> 00:50:25.100
 They've all become Jesus followers, but it's funny.

00:50:25.220 --> 00:50:28.400
 Well, they'll challenge our strategies all the time.

00:50:28.400 --> 00:50:33.020
 Like last week I was talking to him about a groups, kind of a, what a lot of, a lot of

00:50:33.020 --> 00:50:34.840
 us do new year, like a groups initiative.

00:50:35.040 --> 00:50:36.440
 And they're like, why do you do that?

00:50:36.960 --> 00:50:40.760
 And I explained it to him and they're, and then immediately when they asked the question,

00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:46.200
 I start getting in their frame of reference and I'm like, there's so many better ways we

00:50:46.200 --> 00:50:46.960
 could be doing this.

00:50:47.620 --> 00:50:53.920
 And so I will, I, to be honest, I would say we actually are learning a lot more from Silicon

00:50:53.920 --> 00:50:57.480
 Valley than we are learning from, from churches.

00:50:57.480 --> 00:51:00.000
 In many ways, uh, shouldn't that be the case?

00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:06.440
 Um, uh, and I, I think that's wonderful that you guys have the humility to admit that because,

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:08.340
 you know, you kind of challenged this thought earlier.

00:51:08.340 --> 00:51:11.660
 We get stuck in our own perspective, in our own way.

00:51:11.760 --> 00:51:13.260
 Well, this is the way it's always been done.

00:51:13.480 --> 00:51:16.320
 Therefore, it's the, always, it's the way it always should be done.

00:51:16.780 --> 00:51:18.980
 And, uh, it seems like you guys are challenging that.

00:51:19.060 --> 00:51:24.220
 How are you guys creating content to engage folks in the midweek that's connected to the

00:51:24.220 --> 00:51:24.480
 weekend?

00:51:24.480 --> 00:51:27.080
 Cause I know that's a big part of what it is that you're doing.

00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:30.880
 And that's just gotta be, that's gotta create a tremendous amount of tension for you.

00:51:31.060 --> 00:51:31.860
 So tell me about that.

00:51:32.080 --> 00:51:34.660
 So right now we have what's called a daily spark.

00:51:34.880 --> 00:51:39.620
 So literally we have a, we have a, we have a daily one minute and a half.

00:51:40.380 --> 00:51:42.820
 Um, and it is curated.

00:51:42.820 --> 00:51:43.800
 It is intentional.

00:51:44.120 --> 00:51:48.020
 I wouldn't say it's always like echoing what's being said on Sunday.

00:51:48.020 --> 00:51:48.500
 Exactly.

00:51:48.640 --> 00:51:52.300
 But I will say this once again, this is just our community.

00:51:52.660 --> 00:51:55.260
 Uh, but we preach Jesus every Sunday.

00:51:55.600 --> 00:51:58.140
 So it almost doesn't matter what you're talking about.

00:51:58.160 --> 00:51:59.340
 It always ties in together.

00:51:59.860 --> 00:52:04.920
 Um, and so, so yeah, we do have a daily thing, uh, called daily spark.

00:52:04.980 --> 00:52:08.940
 That's also something that we are, you know, continuing to try to make better and more

00:52:08.940 --> 00:52:11.500
 engaging, more interactive and more.

00:52:12.380 --> 00:52:15.280
 When I say engaging, I'm not talking about engaging with other people.

00:52:15.280 --> 00:52:17.260
 I'm talking about engaging with Jesus.

00:52:17.940 --> 00:52:20.480
 And, um, there's a lot of content out there.

00:52:20.640 --> 00:52:25.780
 So we want something that really makes, that really helps you facilitate a moment with Jesus.

00:52:26.260 --> 00:52:30.580
 So we're, we, we are, there's actually some sneak peek stuff on there right now called guided

00:52:30.580 --> 00:52:31.020
 prayers.

00:52:31.640 --> 00:52:34.000
 Um, that's like about a four to five minute.

00:52:34.020 --> 00:52:36.820
 And it's literally that like helping people.

00:52:36.820 --> 00:52:44.460
 And I'll tell you what, I've been praying and read my Bible for 25 years daily, obviously

00:52:44.460 --> 00:52:46.180
 not every day, but you get what I'm saying.

00:52:46.780 --> 00:52:54.520
 And, um, and I found these personally, like so engaging in a world that is full of distractions.

00:52:55.080 --> 00:52:57.240
 I've found my prayer life is so easy.

00:52:57.240 --> 00:53:01.940
 Like I have to focus so much more and maybe people are more spiritual than me, but I've

00:53:01.940 --> 00:53:08.080
 had to fight for focus in my time in the Bible, in my time talking to God more just because

00:53:08.080 --> 00:53:10.740
 of the culture we live in now life is so fast paced.

00:53:10.740 --> 00:53:19.080
 And, um, um, I'll say these five to five to eight minute guided prayers have been really

00:53:19.080 --> 00:53:25.240
 helpful for me because it's, it's just somebody like, think about this right now, say this out

00:53:25.240 --> 00:53:25.520
 loud.

00:53:26.680 --> 00:53:29.180
 Think about how Jesus is embracing you right now.

00:53:29.280 --> 00:53:31.820
 You know, like it's, it's, it's pretty awesome.

00:53:32.060 --> 00:53:36.680
 So we, we, we hope that those are going to be a real tool to help people.

00:53:36.940 --> 00:53:41.840
 Once again, our church exists to point people to Jesus, not to our message.

00:53:42.420 --> 00:53:46.460
 Um, so the daily content is pointed towards that.

00:53:46.800 --> 00:53:50.120
 From a, from a practical standpoint, is that, is that Judah?

00:53:50.220 --> 00:53:51.180
 Is that lead pastor?

00:53:51.540 --> 00:53:53.220
 Who's, who's in your daily minute?

00:53:53.220 --> 00:53:55.940
 Like who are the people doing the content?

00:53:56.100 --> 00:53:57.360
 So the daily sparks, right?

00:53:57.540 --> 00:54:00.180
 The daily sparks all started out as Judah and Chelsea.

00:54:00.820 --> 00:54:06.260
 Um, we shot them all in two days, like a month, like literally just did two days straight

00:54:06.260 --> 00:54:08.140
 content, nailed it.

00:54:08.680 --> 00:54:13.520
 Um, and then we started doing like response with sparks, like where it'd be like a selfie

00:54:13.520 --> 00:54:15.400
 spark where he just pulls phone up and do it.

00:54:15.400 --> 00:54:21.800
 If something happened, uh, like a tragedy, we still do these like the day of he'll stop.

00:54:21.900 --> 00:54:23.740
 He'll say something about it, pray it and we'll post it.

00:54:24.080 --> 00:54:27.340
 So it did start out primarily as, as, as Judah and Chelsea.

00:54:27.480 --> 00:54:32.300
 Then we've started bringing in, um, a handful of our community and we've been intentional

00:54:32.300 --> 00:54:39.460
 about different voices, different ages, uh, you know, diversity, inclusive, inclusivity,

00:54:39.660 --> 00:54:41.080
 different, different perspectives.

00:54:41.540 --> 00:54:47.360
 Um, though guided prayers, uh, are, are once again, it's just another piece of content.

00:54:47.360 --> 00:54:50.180
 We'll see what happens, but they're doing those right now too.

00:54:51.380 --> 00:54:56.820
 And let me ask this, probably the biggest problem that would churches that are doing something

00:54:56.820 --> 00:55:01.580
 similar or trying to do something similar to what you're doing groups, creating physical

00:55:01.580 --> 00:55:07.380
 community, creating community online, utilizing a church online or a digital transmission, uh,

00:55:07.380 --> 00:55:08.900
 is this idea of church and isolation.

00:55:08.900 --> 00:55:13.340
 And you mentioned it earlier, you know, the goal of church home isn't to have a bunch of

00:55:13.340 --> 00:55:16.400
 people staring at their iPhones experiencing church.

00:55:16.400 --> 00:55:22.480
 The goal is to create community, how are, create new communities in, in different areas, an

00:55:22.480 --> 00:55:27.060
 island that you're not able to, to plant a church, Dallas, you know, wherever they may

00:55:27.060 --> 00:55:27.240
 be.

00:55:27.240 --> 00:55:33.200
 How are you able to get people away from isolation, staring at the phones?

00:55:33.760 --> 00:55:38.100
 Um, like, is this geographical thing you were talking about earlier, is that the only way

00:55:38.100 --> 00:55:38.620
 you're doing it?

00:55:38.680 --> 00:55:43.440
 Are there other methods that you're using to pull people out of isolation into a new community?

00:55:44.800 --> 00:55:46.640
 Yeah, I, it's a good question.

00:55:46.640 --> 00:55:48.800
 And I, I, I'll take a stab at it.

00:55:49.160 --> 00:55:55.340
 Um, it, it, it starts with the heart and the focus that that's the goal of this.

00:55:55.340 --> 00:56:00.100
 So when we're shaping and making content, when we're shaping and making strategy, we're focusing

00:56:00.100 --> 00:56:00.640
 on that.

00:56:01.160 --> 00:56:05.680
 Um, I don't know if number one, there's, we can't control people.

00:56:05.680 --> 00:56:11.820
 We can't force them, but, but we are definitely trying to, from the very inception, from the

00:56:11.820 --> 00:56:17.080
 launch of this app, we said, this is all the build tack, the word we use, which is funny,

00:56:17.180 --> 00:56:18.300
 tactile relationships.

00:56:18.540 --> 00:56:20.880
 Now we're kind of saying face-to-face engagement.

00:56:21.500 --> 00:56:27.200
 Um, engagement is not a new thing on app, but face-to-face engagement, you know, leading

00:56:27.200 --> 00:56:31.700
 to that is, is not the tool of a lot of, well, there are some dating apps around that.

00:56:31.920 --> 00:56:40.460
 But, um, so yeah, I will say this, the, this, this digital device, um, we didn't know in

00:56:40.460 --> 00:56:42.840
 the beginning, but it has led to a lot of isolation.

00:56:43.120 --> 00:56:50.640
 It, it just has, but I think God's redeemed a lot of things to use them to, for other purposes.

00:56:51.040 --> 00:56:58.180
 So we're saying rather than hiding from it, let's redeem it and use it to, to remove isolation.

00:56:58.560 --> 00:57:02.040
 So, yeah, I would say how we're doing that is probably in our messaging.

00:57:02.500 --> 00:57:07.200
 We're building, we're, we're, we're trying to constantly think of, of, of new strategies

00:57:07.200 --> 00:57:08.680
 to help facilitate that.

00:57:09.000 --> 00:57:13.060
 Um, what we're learning from people that are meeting in person, once we learn more from

00:57:13.060 --> 00:57:16.840
 them, we'll probably adjust the technology to support that better, to help facilitate

00:57:16.840 --> 00:57:17.500
 that better.

00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:23.000
 But, um, I, I know for myself in the past, I've got the car before the horse way too many

00:57:23.000 --> 00:57:23.400
 times.

00:57:23.400 --> 00:57:24.360
 I've got an idea.

00:57:24.640 --> 00:57:25.460
 I think it's great.

00:57:25.740 --> 00:57:28.860
 And then we put all this work into it and then, and then people really actually don't

00:57:28.860 --> 00:57:29.900
 care about it or want it.

00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:36.660
 But the way great organizations and, and, and businesses do it is they, they try things

00:57:36.660 --> 00:57:42.180
 and they listen, they take feedback and then they adjust and they adapt.

00:57:42.280 --> 00:57:45.620
 And as they do that, so our goal is not changing.

00:57:46.360 --> 00:57:51.580
 It's the goal that's been since the beginning of the church, point people to Jesus, let community

00:57:51.580 --> 00:57:55.000
 swell as a result, and then help people step up to lead that community.

00:57:55.820 --> 00:57:57.820
 And so we didn't create a vision.

00:57:58.020 --> 00:57:59.440
 It's already established in the Bible.

00:57:59.780 --> 00:58:01.920
 We're just trying to find tools to help facilitate it.

00:58:02.480 --> 00:58:06.860
 I saw, I heard Clay Scroggins once, once at a conference and he said that the, the digital,

00:58:06.980 --> 00:58:11.340
 digital disruption, the business world looks at the digital disruption as an opportunity.

00:58:11.340 --> 00:58:14.220
 The church looks at it as an obstacle to run away from.

00:58:14.860 --> 00:58:20.700
 And so you, you know, maybe learning some from the business side out on the West coast, but

00:58:20.700 --> 00:58:27.820
 also trying to take advantage of these tools to, to create a community, to create disciples,

00:58:27.820 --> 00:58:29.660
 to, to connect people to God.

00:58:30.000 --> 00:58:33.580
 Ray, did you have any, any questions as we're wrapping, how to land in the plane?

00:58:34.040 --> 00:58:34.920
 I love this.

00:58:35.140 --> 00:58:38.900
 Mark, I hope we can have you on again, just because I feel like I learned a lot and I hope

00:58:38.900 --> 00:58:41.020
 everybody listening learned a lot as well.

00:58:41.060 --> 00:58:43.380
 And just hearing your heart and your passion for innovation.

00:58:43.720 --> 00:58:49.640
 And you know, you've heard us say this before, once again, folks, um, try, just try, get

00:58:49.640 --> 00:58:50.660
 out there and try something.

00:58:50.660 --> 00:58:54.340
 And, uh, if you get mocked for it, if, if, you know, if folks don't like, if they don't

00:58:54.340 --> 00:58:55.420
 appreciate it, that's okay.

00:58:55.580 --> 00:58:59.580
 Uh, just keep trying and keep tweaking at it because it really is about reaching folks

00:58:59.580 --> 00:59:00.000
 for Christ.

00:59:00.160 --> 00:59:00.940
 Just like Mark is doing.

00:59:01.420 --> 00:59:04.860
 I'll, I'll, I'll land, I'll land the plane on a few scriptures cause that's very spiritual

00:59:04.860 --> 00:59:07.980
 and probably appropriate, but that's what the early church did.

00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:12.060
 They, they say it seems good to us and the Holy spirit to set you apart.

00:59:12.580 --> 00:59:14.260
 I think we got to do more things.

00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:16.880
 It's like, I think it, I think it's going to be good.

00:59:16.960 --> 00:59:18.360
 It seems like it's going to be good.

00:59:18.420 --> 00:59:21.060
 I think God's saying this to me, so let's give it a try.

00:59:21.640 --> 00:59:28.580
 And I love, I think it's the, I think it's the original living translation, uh, that it's

00:59:28.580 --> 00:59:33.620
 an Ecclesiastes scripture, but it says, if you, if you wait for perfect conditions, you'll

00:59:33.620 --> 00:59:34.820
 never get anything done.

00:59:35.500 --> 00:59:37.420
 And, uh, it's just never going to be cookie cutter.

00:59:37.520 --> 00:59:38.760
 This is never going to be a formula.

00:59:38.920 --> 00:59:39.780
 We're working with people.

00:59:40.080 --> 00:59:46.460
 We're building a community, not, uh, an organization and can't wait for perfect conditions.

00:59:46.460 --> 00:59:47.580
 We got to give it a try.

00:59:47.580 --> 00:59:52.940
 And I promise you this, uh, if we talk again someday, I will contradict myself.

00:59:52.940 --> 00:59:55.320
 Then we will have learned new things.

00:59:55.540 --> 00:59:58.080
 We will change things we're doing right now.

00:59:58.140 --> 00:59:59.000
 And I'll say, Oh yeah.

00:59:59.000 --> 01:00:01.420
 Remember when I said that I completely disagreed with myself.

01:00:01.540 --> 01:00:04.220
 And I think that's part of learning and growing.

01:00:04.800 --> 01:00:09.460
 And, and I want to be that type of Jesus follower that I'm humble enough to go.

01:00:09.600 --> 01:00:11.220
 I had that completely wrong.

01:00:11.600 --> 01:00:14.160
 And I think we need to apply that to our strategies as a church too.

01:00:15.420 --> 01:00:15.820
 Awesome.

01:00:16.540 --> 01:00:19.200
 I mean, I don't know anything better than I can say to land the plane.

01:00:19.360 --> 01:00:20.980
 So Mark, thank you for joining us today.

01:00:21.060 --> 01:00:23.300
 Ray, thanks for jumping on as well.

01:00:23.440 --> 01:00:25.220
 Uh, this is Jeff with the church digital.

01:00:25.600 --> 01:00:30.100
 Thanks for being here and, uh, we'll hear you or see you or whatever next time.

01:00:30.180 --> 01:00:30.720
 Y'all have a good day.