WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.840 You need to have some faith that God can bring you the resources that you need to get the 00:00:06.840 --> 00:00:11.840 things that you need to go into the highways and byways of the pilgrimage to come. 00:00:11.980 --> 00:00:14.420 You need to be called to digital ministry. 00:00:15.100 --> 00:00:17.120 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:17.940 --> 00:00:21.960 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:21.960 --> 00:00:25.780 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:28.000 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:28.420 --> 00:00:30.480 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:30.780 --> 00:00:33.340 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:33.780 --> 00:00:37.660 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:38.680 --> 00:00:43.740 Whether you're a big or small church, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:47.240 learn to be a multiplying church digitally and physically. 00:00:47.720 --> 00:00:49.380 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:50.160 --> 00:00:51.040 Hey, you know what? 00:00:51.060 --> 00:00:52.060 It just took us five minutes. 00:00:52.380 --> 00:00:53.820 First time we've done this publicly. 00:00:54.220 --> 00:00:56.260 And so glad we can get everybody together. 00:00:56.840 --> 00:00:58.780 We lost a couple people in the process. 00:00:58.780 --> 00:01:03.900 But we've got Simon is from Germany. 00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:07.160 He runs Beta Church. 00:01:07.940 --> 00:01:10.700 And actually, Simon's actually running a digital church network. 00:01:11.000 --> 00:01:18.100 Runs in Germany a network of digital churches without churches, without buildings, and is resourcing up there. 00:01:18.480 --> 00:01:20.780 Simon works for Simon. 00:01:20.940 --> 00:01:23.000 I'm blanking on the organization. 00:01:23.260 --> 00:01:26.520 I can never remember which missional organization it is. 00:01:26.720 --> 00:01:27.820 And so I apologize for that. 00:01:29.100 --> 00:01:32.940 Whitebeard is, like I said, ZZ Top. 00:01:33.800 --> 00:01:37.660 And so, but he lives in Tampa and Alliance. 00:01:37.900 --> 00:01:39.140 Yeah, excuse me, Alliance Missions. 00:01:39.960 --> 00:01:47.920 Whitebeard is probably the most radical within the Church Digital. 00:01:48.240 --> 00:01:51.840 Some of, like, his ideas and some of the stuff that he's doing is incredible. 00:01:52.520 --> 00:01:53.360 A man of prayer. 00:01:54.240 --> 00:01:56.380 Really intriguing some of his ideas. 00:01:57.160 --> 00:02:06.960 And he walks around the art district in Tampa called Ybor City wearing a monk outfit and giving away water and praying for people, like, on the street. 00:02:07.080 --> 00:02:07.800 Incredible stuff. 00:02:08.660 --> 00:02:14.640 And Melanie does a lot of stuff with Digital Church Flatcaps, one of our leaders as well. 00:02:14.840 --> 00:02:17.720 So, anyway, it's going to be an interesting conversation here. 00:02:18.520 --> 00:02:19.600 I'm joined by DK. 00:02:20.240 --> 00:02:23.720 By the way, before we get going, DK, what does DK stand for? 00:02:23.960 --> 00:02:25.100 Am I allowed to know that? 00:02:25.520 --> 00:02:26.020 Yeah, man. 00:02:26.020 --> 00:02:28.620 My first name is actually, my first name is Derek. 00:02:29.460 --> 00:02:30.060 Can you hear me? 00:02:31.300 --> 00:02:31.780 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:02:31.780 --> 00:02:32.040 You're good. 00:02:32.380 --> 00:02:32.600 You're good. 00:02:32.820 --> 00:02:33.680 First name is Derek. 00:02:33.760 --> 00:02:35.180 My middle name, you cannot know. 00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:37.640 But Derek Hammonds is my name. 00:02:38.320 --> 00:02:39.440 Middle name starts with a K. 00:02:39.600 --> 00:02:40.540 You're welcome to guess. 00:02:40.720 --> 00:02:42.180 I'll tell you if you're right or wrong. 00:02:42.180 --> 00:02:44.320 That could be a conversation for the chat for later. 00:02:44.840 --> 00:02:47.740 But, yeah, DK Hammonds, it's easy to go by. 00:02:48.100 --> 00:02:53.300 And if it's somebody uniquely named Derek in another place, there's very few people named DK. 00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:55.680 So, that's what makes it sense of that. 00:02:56.060 --> 00:02:56.460 Interesting. 00:02:57.140 --> 00:03:02.520 Yeah, so you did DK to be, like, you know, unique because there's all sorts of Derrecks all over the place. 00:03:02.780 --> 00:03:03.100 Absolutely. 00:03:03.740 --> 00:03:09.800 There was a season where I was actually JD for the same reason because Jeff Reads are, like, dude, I've won Super Bowls. 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:10.800 I've won the World Series. 00:03:11.580 --> 00:03:14.760 I did, you know, unfortunately, if you Google me, there's, like, 00:03:14.760 --> 00:03:17.460 a Jeff Reed that's done the stuff with kids you're not allowed to do with kids. 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:24.840 And so, like, you know, trying to find the Jeff Reads out there, it was very easy to get kind of overwhelmed and lost in the shuffle. 00:03:25.140 --> 00:03:27.500 But DK, man, that's smart. 00:03:27.620 --> 00:03:29.080 So, where do you live, DK? 00:03:29.440 --> 00:03:32.320 I'm currently a resident here in Dallas, Texas. 00:03:32.420 --> 00:03:33.980 I'm in a suburb called Glen Heights. 00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:35.840 That's where I live. 00:03:36.100 --> 00:03:37.980 But Dallas is home. 00:03:39.500 --> 00:03:39.880 Awesome. 00:03:40.120 --> 00:03:42.280 I mean, I didn't put that together either. 00:03:42.400 --> 00:03:45.400 I was stuck in Dallas March. 00:03:46.140 --> 00:03:47.320 Man, you'll appreciate this. 00:03:47.440 --> 00:03:51.160 I was in Allen, Texas, speaking at a Push Pay Resi event. 00:03:51.600 --> 00:03:51.740 Yeah. 00:03:51.860 --> 00:03:59.060 And I, so my flight was supposed to leave Thursday afternoon. 00:03:59.820 --> 00:04:02.540 I didn't actually leave Dallas until Saturday night. 00:04:03.360 --> 00:04:09.380 I was literally grounded in Dallas for two extra days because of a thunderstorm coming in. 00:04:10.000 --> 00:04:13.700 That was so bad, it literally shut down DFW Airport for two days. 00:04:14.160 --> 00:04:16.560 And when I could finally get off the ground, they flew me to Austin. 00:04:17.160 --> 00:04:24.140 I was actually stuck in Austin because there was another storm front that blew through that basically cut off the entire, like, seaboard. 00:04:24.440 --> 00:04:25.720 And so it was, it was nuts. 00:04:26.360 --> 00:04:39.720 I was, literally, I was like, I was in a hotel bar working all day Friday and Saturday on my laptop just drinking bottomless Diet Cokes trying to pass the time cheaply because there was, like, nothing else for me to do. 00:04:40.140 --> 00:04:40.740 Yeah, it did. 00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:42.400 Cool. 00:04:42.600 --> 00:04:47.140 And so, man, DK, maybe share with us a little, I'm going to feel like I'm going to call you Derek and I'll slip off. 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:47.460 It's up here. 00:04:47.860 --> 00:04:48.140 That's fine. 00:04:48.560 --> 00:04:52.060 But DK, yeah, tell us a little bit about, about yourself and your ministry. 00:04:52.720 --> 00:05:01.680 Yeah, man, I've been, well, my ministry is kind of connected in two ways, right? 00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:07.080 By, by trade, I'm a trained, licensed, ordained pastor, minister. 00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:12.920 And that's been almost 17 years of that, that ministry. 00:05:12.920 --> 00:05:20.400 I work my way through the ranks of youth ministry, campus, pastor, all the things you can think of in church that you can do. 00:05:21.300 --> 00:05:22.100 I've done it. 00:05:22.320 --> 00:05:24.000 Trumps, Ursa, done that. 00:05:25.040 --> 00:05:31.500 And then some years ago, recently, because I've been in a tech space when I wasn't preaching. 00:05:32.220 --> 00:05:37.400 So tech has always been a part of my life for the bulk of my adult life. 00:05:37.960 --> 00:05:41.620 And so when I say tech space, we're talking about startups, startup companies. 00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:47.940 I've been helping startup companies move through the series A's and series B's and getting funded angel investors. 00:05:48.400 --> 00:05:54.480 They'll bring somebody like me in as their tech guy to kind of help them forge the organization along. 00:05:54.480 --> 00:06:00.860 So we're talking about major projects across states, company lines, things of that nature, and supporting people. 00:06:01.880 --> 00:06:13.980 And then from there, I've always been in this place where I couldn't find a place in church to use that skill set. 00:06:14.500 --> 00:06:21.160 I could find a place in the marketplace, but never in my church context. 00:06:21.620 --> 00:06:24.240 So that had made me, I had to go look elsewhere. 00:06:24.460 --> 00:06:28.240 And then recently, NBC City was a church that I was at. 00:06:28.520 --> 00:06:30.840 I'm working for myself as a contractor now. 00:06:31.300 --> 00:06:38.380 But, you know, that was one of the places that I worked at as a contractor, as an employee, being their IT and systems manager. 00:06:38.780 --> 00:06:53.800 And so it gave me an opportunity to kind of converge these two worlds together and use the biblical approach to a tech because there is one and using the tech approach to ministry because there should be one. 00:06:54.280 --> 00:06:59.360 And in most churches, at least that I've been encountered, they didn't have a person like that. 00:06:59.540 --> 00:07:01.180 So it gave me an opportunity to do that. 00:07:01.220 --> 00:07:02.580 So that's kind of a little bit about me. 00:07:02.640 --> 00:07:05.240 I'm a husband of one father of four. 00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:07.320 And I love my wife. 00:07:07.380 --> 00:07:08.460 She just had a birthday yesterday. 00:07:08.980 --> 00:07:11.160 And so that's who I am and how I've gotten here. 00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:12.960 Awesome. 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:14.560 Well, happy birthday to the wife. 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:14.980 Happy. 00:07:15.200 --> 00:07:16.860 Was it happy wife, happy life. 00:07:17.100 --> 00:07:19.940 And so sometimes I'm sure she really appreciates. 00:07:20.080 --> 00:07:23.380 Yeah, I'm sure she really appreciates the husband of one. 00:07:23.700 --> 00:07:24.180 That's right. 00:07:26.440 --> 00:07:33.780 You know, to, you know, adding, complexing that relationship, maybe not the wisest, wisest choice, especially in ministry. 00:07:34.040 --> 00:07:35.300 But well done. 00:07:35.820 --> 00:07:53.560 So, you know, you may know DK, a lot of our podcast listeners here with TCD Podcasts are also probably engaging over with Social Media Church, which DK is over now with Nils and with Aaron Magnuson, right? 00:07:53.640 --> 00:07:55.260 He's the other voice over there. 00:07:55.420 --> 00:07:59.680 And so, you know, Nils has been here on the podcast several times. 00:07:59.680 --> 00:08:05.120 And we've worked with Aaron in the background on some projects and with some other vendors and things. 00:08:05.300 --> 00:08:08.800 And so definitely excited here to include DK in. 00:08:09.100 --> 00:08:13.660 And so I've been hanging out with him a little bit here with the live podcast doing on Discord. 00:08:14.240 --> 00:08:17.720 Exciting to see him start to interact here as we're building out the Discord community. 00:08:17.820 --> 00:08:19.200 Brand new for us, DK. 00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:23.140 Like we're maybe a week in, maybe two weeks. 00:08:23.720 --> 00:08:25.940 I think the website, we just launched a new website. 00:08:26.060 --> 00:08:26.960 I noticed that was fire. 00:08:27.180 --> 00:08:27.740 I love that site. 00:08:28.620 --> 00:08:28.940 Yeah. 00:08:29.120 --> 00:08:31.900 And it was funny. 00:08:32.100 --> 00:08:35.400 Like the leadership team was like, hey, now that we're launching a new website, let's go to Discord. 00:08:35.620 --> 00:08:36.600 And I was like, I don't know. 00:08:37.160 --> 00:08:38.780 Let's talk about the timing on that. 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:41.400 And I got voted down, like severely voted down. 00:08:41.600 --> 00:08:45.700 Like when everybody else in the room is like, Discord, Discord, Discord, and I'm the only person saying no. 00:08:45.760 --> 00:08:46.860 It's like, okay, we're going to Discord. 00:08:47.280 --> 00:08:50.660 So definitely excited to see that. 00:08:50.840 --> 00:08:51.000 Okay. 00:08:51.060 --> 00:08:57.220 Hey, so here with this conversation, we want to talk about, you know what? 00:08:57.340 --> 00:08:58.220 African-American churches. 00:08:58.740 --> 00:09:03.680 And so let me be the purple elephant in the room or whatever it is. 00:09:03.900 --> 00:09:13.300 And if you're watching us on Discord or you know anything about me, I am a bald white man currently wearing a yellow trucker hat with a beard. 00:09:13.800 --> 00:09:19.060 And, you know, I used to have like a decent sized goatee before I decided to, you know, clean up my life a little bit. 00:09:19.320 --> 00:09:19.460 Yeah. 00:09:19.460 --> 00:09:27.520 So like, you know, I'm not the, DK, I'm not the guy that probably, you know, needs to talk about race. 00:09:27.700 --> 00:09:30.080 I want to be the guy that learns about race. 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:35.340 And so I'm very much wanting to position myself as the learner in this conversation. 00:09:35.820 --> 00:09:44.960 And I almost want to put this disclaimer up at the front that I'm a little afraid to like almost have some of these conversations publicly and publicly recorded. 00:09:45.460 --> 00:09:56.240 We were joking offline about how, you know, maybe I would say something stupid and then this video would go viral because like I would be the stupid, ignorant white man saying something dumb. 00:09:56.660 --> 00:10:00.060 And there's a very good chance that's going to happen. 00:10:00.440 --> 00:10:02.240 Like, and that's not me intentionally doing it. 00:10:02.280 --> 00:10:04.700 It's just, I'm, I'm kind of stupid. 00:10:05.300 --> 00:10:07.400 To be honest, you know, this is my disclaimer. 00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:08.740 I live in Miami, Florida. 00:10:09.280 --> 00:10:17.980 Like, it's where race is, you know, we're 40% Hispanic, we're 30% white, and we're 30% African American. 00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:25.960 Like, I mean, I've got, I've got friends here in Miami that are a mix between all three demographics. 00:10:25.960 --> 00:10:30.400 Like, like a white person marries a black Cuban. 00:10:30.400 --> 00:10:32.100 And what, what are the kids? 00:10:32.300 --> 00:10:35.720 Like, it's, it's like race almost doesn't exist anymore. 00:10:35.720 --> 00:10:38.940 And that's, that's not the norm, especially when we're looking at America. 00:10:38.940 --> 00:10:44.300 And so while I'm, you know, while I'm like, is race really still a problem in this country? 00:10:44.300 --> 00:10:47.400 Then, you know, I see everything else that's happening in this country. 00:10:47.440 --> 00:10:48.400 And I remember, hey, you know what? 00:10:48.460 --> 00:10:51.440 Miami is like this, you know, it's the diamond. 00:10:51.620 --> 00:10:52.100 Not just Miami. 00:10:52.300 --> 00:10:52.740 So to speak. 00:10:52.740 --> 00:10:52.920 Florida. 00:10:55.820 --> 00:10:59.100 Maybe, you know, some of the, no, no, no, I'm not even going to get there. 00:10:59.140 --> 00:11:01.880 Because that would be some of the stupid stuff that I could say answering that question. 00:11:01.980 --> 00:11:07.720 But yeah, Florida, Florida definitely is, is, leans a little more race friendly. 00:11:07.880 --> 00:11:08.620 Let's just call it that way. 00:11:08.980 --> 00:11:09.680 All right. 00:11:12.260 --> 00:11:18.320 I at least am looking forward to the conversation here with DK and getting to ask some questions. 00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:18.800 Yes. 00:11:18.880 --> 00:11:20.000 And we're not running from anything. 00:11:20.180 --> 00:11:20.920 Let's get to it. 00:11:21.400 --> 00:11:22.600 I'm not, I'm not easily offended. 00:11:22.600 --> 00:11:24.080 If something offends me, I'm going to say, hey, man. 00:11:24.300 --> 00:11:24.780 All right. 00:11:25.480 --> 00:11:26.080 And we keep going. 00:11:26.300 --> 00:11:26.580 Awesome. 00:11:26.980 --> 00:11:27.300 All good. 00:11:27.660 --> 00:11:27.920 All right. 00:11:27.980 --> 00:11:30.260 Hey, so, so let's, let's get in here. 00:11:31.500 --> 00:11:34.300 You know, I, so I want to open up with this. 00:11:34.400 --> 00:11:40.080 Like I, once again, I told you, like I'm, I'm, I'm very much a, uh, where there's a blended 00:11:40.080 --> 00:11:41.760 society down here in Miami. 00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:44.940 Like the church that I went to was, was very mixed. 00:11:45.640 --> 00:11:49.500 Um, and, uh, I heard there were, we brought in a speaker and for life of me, I don't remember 00:11:49.500 --> 00:11:50.260 who this guy is. 00:11:50.320 --> 00:11:54.000 I knew the name, but it didn't like, it didn't stick with me. 00:11:54.180 --> 00:11:59.200 And, uh, this guy from Chicago came in to speak on race and, uh, and he shared this vantage 00:11:59.200 --> 00:12:06.120 point that, um, that really church, like he was for race. 00:12:06.120 --> 00:12:11.360 He was advocating for the segregation of churches, like having African-American churches, having 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:16.780 white churches, having Hispanic churches, that that was actually the thing to properly do 00:12:16.780 --> 00:12:26.540 within churches so that churches can be, uh, so that people can worship in their context, worship 00:12:26.540 --> 00:12:29.420 within their, their demographics, worship within their style. 00:12:29.720 --> 00:12:34.160 Now there's definitely some things within African-American church, like true African-American 00:12:34.160 --> 00:12:35.740 church that isn't done by the white church. 00:12:35.800 --> 00:12:41.740 Hispanic churches have far different styles and, and, you know, but a lot of what, what I'm, 00:12:41.740 --> 00:12:44.280 I'm used to seems to be more blended. 00:12:44.280 --> 00:12:49.740 And actually, you know, my, my ministry story, we've tried to create blended approaches, although 00:12:49.740 --> 00:12:54.340 sometimes like it was a bunch of white people and, you know, the token Asian guy that was 00:12:54.340 --> 00:12:55.360 just like in the neighborhood. 00:12:55.920 --> 00:13:03.040 Um, I mean, I would love your take, like, is, is, is it, is it better for us to be, I'm using 00:13:03.040 --> 00:13:07.700 the word segregated, that man, I'd be right, separated in, or is it better to be blended? 00:13:07.700 --> 00:13:14.060 Like when, when you look at, at church, physical church in race, what, what are you more comfortable 00:13:14.060 --> 00:13:14.440 with? 00:13:15.820 --> 00:13:22.380 Well, I'll be honest with you, uh, because I've, I've worked in both contexts and I've served 00:13:22.380 --> 00:13:30.680 in both contexts and while I would say African-Americans would love a blended approach. 00:13:30.680 --> 00:13:39.100 What happens is when they go into said spaces, the spaces aren't safe for them in terms of 00:13:39.100 --> 00:13:39.680 context. 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:45.980 And so they have to find places where they can be free to worship in the style by which they 00:13:45.980 --> 00:13:53.280 are accustomed to, or that feels natural to them and then go there. 00:13:53.280 --> 00:13:58.960 Now, with that being said, there are some people who see it in a very blended format. 00:13:59.400 --> 00:14:03.600 So it's not, it's to me, it's not a one size fits all to answer the question direct. 00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:07.260 Uh, it is, what is your preference? 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:10.300 What do you feel led to do? 00:14:10.680 --> 00:14:15.780 There are some of us who feel led where I need to be in a predominant church or predominant 00:14:15.780 --> 00:14:16.380 race church. 00:14:16.700 --> 00:14:18.080 Then that's where you want to go. 00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:18.720 Cool. 00:14:19.560 --> 00:14:21.440 Uh, and sometimes it just happens that way. 00:14:21.500 --> 00:14:23.540 You don't even, you're not even paying attention to it. 00:14:23.540 --> 00:14:25.020 It just naturally happens that way. 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:30.200 And then other times it is, this is what I need for the sake of my own personal safety. 00:14:30.200 --> 00:14:31.460 This is what I am used to. 00:14:31.660 --> 00:14:34.980 And this is what I'm going to choose based upon that. 00:14:34.980 --> 00:14:39.480 And so I would be honest, like, especially like in Dallas, we're starting to see the convergence 00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:49.460 of, um, the multi-ethnic, multi-generational churches, um, that have the various race makeup 00:14:49.460 --> 00:14:50.300 within them. 00:14:50.940 --> 00:14:58.240 But the, the, the, the, the thin line between that is, it is, is going to lean to its dominant 00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:03.880 and it does it unintentionally sometimes, as you mentioned, but it leans to its dominant. 00:15:03.880 --> 00:15:08.880 And so we always need to be trying to be centered so that we can be inclusive of everyone. 00:15:08.880 --> 00:15:14.940 So if a person does decide that they want to go to a black church, cool, let's, let's honor 00:15:14.940 --> 00:15:15.220 that. 00:15:15.280 --> 00:15:16.620 At least they're going to church. 00:15:16.900 --> 00:15:21.540 If a person says they want to go to a blended church, cool, let's honor that. 00:15:21.640 --> 00:15:22.900 And then let's move forward. 00:15:22.900 --> 00:15:30.760 Cause I think, I think I feel, and I believe that, um, we're probably better together as 00:15:30.760 --> 00:15:37.300 the Bible has already told us to be, but sometimes we're not safer together and that doesn't make 00:15:37.300 --> 00:15:37.700 us better. 00:15:38.780 --> 00:15:39.260 Hmm. 00:15:39.760 --> 00:15:40.660 That's interesting. 00:15:40.660 --> 00:15:43.280 So you're in Texas, I mean, Dallas. 00:15:43.540 --> 00:15:43.800 Yeah. 00:15:43.960 --> 00:15:47.040 I mean, Dallas is, is the home of like the cowboy church. 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:53.020 Um, and I'm not sure if that's Dallas cowboys or just, you know, cowboys and Indians, cowboys. 00:15:53.020 --> 00:15:53.860 Can I say Indians? 00:15:53.960 --> 00:15:55.660 I don't know, but cowboys church. 00:15:55.960 --> 00:16:03.380 Um, like, and, and so, uh, how do you, like, is your church, is your church African-American? 00:16:03.500 --> 00:16:04.180 Is, is it blended? 00:16:04.300 --> 00:16:05.660 Like where do you specifically worship? 00:16:06.100 --> 00:16:06.400 Can I ask? 00:16:06.400 --> 00:16:08.180 So it's blended, right? 00:16:08.380 --> 00:16:13.780 And now when you get into the African-Americans, I think you're only talking about one sect of 00:16:13.780 --> 00:16:14.200 people. 00:16:14.380 --> 00:16:21.180 Now we have to also include Senegalese and Congolese and African and Tanzanian people that 00:16:21.180 --> 00:16:23.020 are equally a part of that diaspora. 00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:26.140 They don't necessarily subscribe to the construct of African-American. 00:16:26.280 --> 00:16:26.720 Right. 00:16:27.020 --> 00:16:33.000 And so you have them included into that because on that side of town or North side, they actually 00:16:33.000 --> 00:16:35.980 are Christians, devout Christians, and they want to go to church. 00:16:36.220 --> 00:16:38.640 And so they go to church at these places. 00:16:38.640 --> 00:16:43.620 They may present as African-American, but if you hear their accent, you'll, you'll, you'll 00:16:43.620 --> 00:16:45.880 find out very clearly they are not African-American. 00:16:45.880 --> 00:16:47.400 They are from somewhere else. 00:16:47.400 --> 00:16:52.800 And just like I've seen, um, white presenting South Americans, uh, I mean, not South Americans, 00:16:52.800 --> 00:16:56.960 South Africans, um, and they are going to African-American churches. 00:16:56.960 --> 00:17:04.680 And so I've seen the blended, blended experience, and I would love to be a part of that, to be 00:17:04.680 --> 00:17:08.960 a part of a place that is both safe and inclusive of everyone. 00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:14.060 The problem is that doesn't happen, not intentionally. 00:17:14.060 --> 00:17:16.220 And so let, let, let me give you a scenario. 00:17:16.820 --> 00:17:22.240 So when we're talking about inclusive, we're talking about the staff looks like me. 00:17:22.800 --> 00:17:24.360 Or resembles parts of me. 00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:31.340 There are sermons that are directed to my issues, ills, and situations in my community, just 00:17:31.340 --> 00:17:33.220 like there are sermons directed to your community. 00:17:33.740 --> 00:17:35.680 So there's an intentionality behind that. 00:17:36.020 --> 00:17:40.760 And a lot of pastors try to veer away from that because their focus is to try to be more 00:17:40.760 --> 00:17:42.860 biblical and not communal. 00:17:43.280 --> 00:17:45.000 And so their messaging shows up that way. 00:17:46.140 --> 00:17:46.580 Okay. 00:17:47.280 --> 00:17:54.100 So then, you know, who on, on staff represents you, uh, can speak to you. 00:17:54.400 --> 00:18:02.480 Um, you know, maybe, um, do you like, you know, I know, um, you know, lamenting, uh, is, 00:18:02.480 --> 00:18:04.460 is a big part of African-American churches. 00:18:05.180 --> 00:18:09.580 Um, you know, black gospel choirs dancing on stage is, is a big part. 00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:12.120 Um, like, say more about lamenting. 00:18:12.200 --> 00:18:13.340 What, what do you mean lamenting? 00:18:13.600 --> 00:18:14.420 This is good, man. 00:18:14.460 --> 00:18:15.140 I'm having fun. 00:18:15.780 --> 00:18:16.460 What do you mean? 00:18:16.460 --> 00:18:24.460 No, like it's, um, that, well, maybe I'm speaking out of turn, but, but, you know, the, 00:18:24.520 --> 00:18:30.640 the lament, like the, the lament, the, the, the holding to reading scripture together, um, 00:18:30.740 --> 00:18:36.340 the lamenting, the, the woes where we've come from, some of the, the, the disparity of, 00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:42.340 of the historical aspect, um, you know, we did a, uh, like a, my, maybe some of my time 00:18:42.340 --> 00:18:45.080 at Stadia, but we were very, uh, very big. 00:18:45.080 --> 00:18:53.640 We spent a lot of time in COVID actually really getting into the African-American, um, church. 00:18:53.900 --> 00:18:57.180 Like what is, what do, what do they do? 00:18:57.240 --> 00:19:04.580 Cause basically, um, and we were accused, Stadia was accused of basically trying to make, 00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.000 trying to whitewash everything with the planters. 00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:09.400 We were measuring the, the, the planters. 00:19:09.400 --> 00:19:14.600 We're measuring the effectiveness of these churches through, uh, a white lens through, 00:19:14.780 --> 00:19:18.440 Hey, are they, you know, can they do a three song, uh, worship set? 00:19:18.540 --> 00:19:21.460 Can they, can they preach a, a, a white sermon? 00:19:21.460 --> 00:19:26.700 And so like, it was, everything was, was the perception was, was, it was all through that 00:19:26.700 --> 00:19:27.040 lens. 00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:27.560 Yeah. 00:19:27.620 --> 00:19:31.460 And so we had to do like this, this really deep dive organizationally. 00:19:31.540 --> 00:19:33.960 What is, what does an African-American church look like? 00:19:33.960 --> 00:19:36.400 What is, what does a Hispanic church look like? 00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:37.200 What are the characteristics? 00:19:37.360 --> 00:19:39.940 What are the people, what are the people looking for? 00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:40.920 How are they discipled? 00:19:40.980 --> 00:19:43.360 How is that different than a physical church? 00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:48.280 And so we really, um, delved into the, the aspects of it. 00:19:48.280 --> 00:19:52.840 This is where, you know, I started to discover things like African-American churches really 00:19:52.840 --> 00:19:59.320 are not typically aligned much to technology near to the level that white churches are. 00:19:59.420 --> 00:20:03.700 And white churches are years behind, like, you know, culturally where, where corporations 00:20:03.700 --> 00:20:04.120 are. 00:20:04.280 --> 00:20:05.000 Now it's interesting. 00:20:05.080 --> 00:20:09.720 Hispanic churches actually lean more towards technology if they have it available. 00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:10.220 Yeah. 00:20:10.300 --> 00:20:11.940 Um, but a lot of them can't afford it. 00:20:12.020 --> 00:20:13.660 They want it, but they can't afford it. 00:20:13.660 --> 00:20:18.000 Whereas African-American churches, you know, if it almost, it felt like pre COVID, like they 00:20:18.000 --> 00:20:19.380 were hands off. 00:20:19.380 --> 00:20:25.720 They didn't want anything to do with it because like the technology really wasn't, and maybe 00:20:25.720 --> 00:20:31.400 I'm overstating, but it's, it was more about being in the room, in the event, seeing the 00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.280 choir, hearing them sing, seeing the performance value, seeing the pastor. 00:20:36.540 --> 00:20:42.760 Like it was much more of a, a communal event really than what even the white church was 00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:44.440 at the high level that they considered it. 00:20:44.920 --> 00:20:45.320 Yeah, brother. 00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:50.940 Like, I think, I think for, I think you, the, the last statement you mentioned, and I love 00:20:50.940 --> 00:20:54.760 what white beard is saying in the chat, try to find a good Eastern movie that is for black, 00:20:54.900 --> 00:20:55.600 for a black church. 00:20:55.720 --> 00:20:56.660 It doesn't really exist. 00:20:56.740 --> 00:20:57.680 That's powerful statement. 00:20:57.780 --> 00:20:58.760 That's a real statement. 00:20:59.380 --> 00:21:03.480 Uh, cause I hadn't found one myself, but I think the last statement that you mentioned 00:21:03.480 --> 00:21:10.720 about community for our people, and I would say, and I'm, I'm including anybody that, that 00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:20.440 is for justice for everybody, for our people, it is about community and we, the understanding 00:21:20.440 --> 00:21:27.880 for some leaders is digital divide impacts community. 00:21:28.560 --> 00:21:31.700 And we're absolutely terrified of digital divide. 00:21:32.020 --> 00:21:33.940 We don't know enough about it. 00:21:34.500 --> 00:21:36.000 There isn't much information. 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.500 So shout out to people like Brianna Parker, who is really doing the work in this area to 00:21:40.500 --> 00:21:43.740 give us numbers about African-American churches and people. 00:21:44.180 --> 00:21:49.480 Um, but there's not really, uh, and I even say, um, Barner group is doing a, they're attempting 00:21:49.480 --> 00:21:51.620 to do a better job at representing that. 00:21:51.680 --> 00:21:53.340 So I want to make sure I make that clear too. 00:21:53.340 --> 00:21:58.340 Um, so just having that information is really, really important. 00:21:58.560 --> 00:22:06.960 And some pastors, when COVID hit, were really terrified about how to pivot to the next because 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:10.000 they were used to people just automatically showing up. 00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.700 It didn't require work. 00:22:11.700 --> 00:22:14.040 These people would be there every single Sunday. 00:22:14.040 --> 00:22:19.520 And so now I have to do something different that I'm not prepared for that. 00:22:19.520 --> 00:22:21.160 I didn't think about that. 00:22:21.220 --> 00:22:24.460 I don't have the financial resources to gain. 00:22:24.600 --> 00:22:26.100 I'm kind of stuck. 00:22:26.340 --> 00:22:31.240 So I do need help here and I don't know where to start to get the help. 00:22:31.320 --> 00:22:36.340 So these conversations should have been happening, but I think of African-American churches. 00:22:36.340 --> 00:22:40.360 I think of the small church that has only 50 to a hundred people in all family. 00:22:40.980 --> 00:22:49.600 They can't afford a, a resi set up, uh, rate array set up that that's 900 bucks, a computer 00:22:49.600 --> 00:22:54.240 from Mac that's $2,000, a, um, a switcher. 00:22:54.320 --> 00:22:55.720 That's another thousand dollars. 00:22:55.720 --> 00:22:58.040 And then three cameras that are Canon reds. 00:22:58.040 --> 00:23:02.780 It's another three or $4,000 a piece that that's not, unfortunately they can't afford that. 00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:08.900 Um, and that's just how the makeup is now here's where partnerships matter. 00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:13.680 And you can do this and be an ally without trying to bang the actual bail. 00:23:14.020 --> 00:23:15.540 Hey, do you need help? 00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:17.320 I see you need help. 00:23:17.480 --> 00:23:18.960 Here are some resources. 00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:21.020 Allow me to provide them for you. 00:23:21.140 --> 00:23:22.380 I don't need nothing from it. 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:24.180 You ain't got to post me on social media. 00:23:24.320 --> 00:23:25.740 That is not required of me. 00:23:25.860 --> 00:23:29.760 Allow me to just help you get where we are and then we can move forward. 00:23:29.860 --> 00:23:31.280 Watch this as a community. 00:23:31.600 --> 00:23:37.900 What happens is when you have, uh, Anglo-Saxon churches, they move ahead and not try to pull 00:23:37.900 --> 00:23:42.700 us or other people with them so that we can move ahead and communities together. 00:23:42.800 --> 00:23:44.680 It is always, let me get ahead. 00:23:44.840 --> 00:23:46.260 Let me forge, let me conquer. 00:23:46.420 --> 00:23:49.300 And then y'all can get it by your bootstraps along the way. 00:23:49.320 --> 00:23:53.660 And that's not always a good philosophy, but I understand why you do it. 00:23:53.680 --> 00:23:57.720 Cause you're going to be looking out for your people, whoever the people are in your context. 00:23:57.780 --> 00:24:00.180 And I respect that solely. 00:24:00.180 --> 00:24:09.380 So there was a divide line, a digital divide, and it does impact the people who are unfortunately 00:24:09.380 --> 00:24:13.420 not, um, not financially there. 00:24:13.660 --> 00:24:15.360 And we have to acknowledge that. 00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.760 Right. 00:24:16.220 --> 00:24:19.700 Uh, and I know there are some organizations, I think like a Southern Baptist convention that 00:24:19.700 --> 00:24:20.480 helped with digital. 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.760 I know those things exist, but everybody can't get ahold to those resources. 00:24:25.060 --> 00:24:26.740 And so that puts people behind. 00:24:26.920 --> 00:24:28.860 Now I'm going to say this. 00:24:31.040 --> 00:24:35.020 You can stay behind or you can make some adjustments. 00:24:36.980 --> 00:24:42.400 Facebook allows you to pull up a stream on your phone, turn on your phone, plug it into 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:42.980 a wall. 00:24:43.020 --> 00:24:44.280 And there you have live stream. 00:24:45.260 --> 00:24:46.580 It won't be perfect. 00:24:47.100 --> 00:24:50.920 It won't look like everybody else, but it'll be yours. 00:24:51.620 --> 00:24:57.120 And nobody was willing to forge that line and say, at least let me try it. 00:24:57.980 --> 00:25:02.120 We're just sitting around waiting to see who would do the next thing better. 00:25:03.220 --> 00:25:06.500 Try where you are, start where you are. 00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:08.680 And God always provides the increase. 00:25:09.920 --> 00:25:10.200 Yeah. 00:25:10.340 --> 00:25:13.560 You know, I had a, um, a pastor friend. 00:25:13.700 --> 00:25:18.000 I was actually friends with the executive pastors in African-American church here, here in South 00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:18.320 Florida. 00:25:18.940 --> 00:25:26.520 Um, maybe 1,000, 1,500, um, was, was much larger as shrunk over time, as decreased in size. 00:25:27.080 --> 00:25:31.960 And, uh, the executive pastor wanted me to come in and talk about, um, online, this is pre-COVID. 00:25:32.780 --> 00:25:38.500 And, uh, and so came in, uh, met with the pastor, walked the facility, talked, cast vision for, 00:25:38.560 --> 00:25:39.060 for digital. 00:25:39.440 --> 00:25:39.660 Yeah. 00:25:39.740 --> 00:25:43.040 And, um, you know, I remember the pastor getting really excited. 00:25:43.180 --> 00:25:48.360 I've told this story several times, but Jeff, I want to see my message preached around the 00:25:48.360 --> 00:25:48.600 world. 00:25:48.660 --> 00:25:49.840 He was very specific with this. 00:25:50.220 --> 00:25:55.500 Jeff, I want to see somebody accept Christ and get baptized because of my sermon in, in 00:25:55.500 --> 00:25:55.920 Ethiopia. 00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.460 And, uh, I, I, I kind of chuckled about that with him and I was like, Hey, that guy that 00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:05.780 gets baptized in Ethiopia, what happens after, uh, he gets baptized, what happens to him? 00:26:06.400 --> 00:26:09.960 And, uh, the pastor looked at me and he's like, I don't know, Jeff, that's, that's really 00:26:09.960 --> 00:26:10.720 not my problem. 00:26:11.780 --> 00:26:13.540 And, um, and it was pre-COVID. 00:26:13.760 --> 00:26:17.980 I mean, to be honest, like that was, that was not that uncommon of a mindset pre-COVID. 00:26:18.560 --> 00:26:23.180 But, uh, I really had this opportunity to sit down with him and cast vision towards digital 00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:27.600 discipleship and what church can look like more than just, uh, that, that one piece. 00:26:27.600 --> 00:26:34.300 Um, so let me just ask, like, why does, and, and I, maybe I'm stereotypic, stereotyping all 00:26:34.300 --> 00:26:35.260 African-American pastors. 00:26:35.380 --> 00:26:40.360 So forgive me if that's happening here, but it feels like African-American culture struggles 00:26:40.360 --> 00:26:41.900 to connect with digital community. 00:26:42.260 --> 00:26:47.680 Like, um, it was interesting pre-COVID, the majority of online viewers of church services 00:26:47.680 --> 00:26:50.240 on Facebook was African-American women. 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:56.300 Like, they, they would, uh, view content, but leaning into community and engagement, it 00:26:56.300 --> 00:26:58.760 feels like African-Americans kind of struggle in that space. 00:26:58.840 --> 00:27:03.940 Is, would you feel that's accurate or do you, do you disagree and maybe why or why not? 00:27:04.360 --> 00:27:05.920 I think that's about exposure. 00:27:06.860 --> 00:27:10.060 Uh, I don't feel, I don't necessarily feel like that's accurate. 00:27:10.440 --> 00:27:17.980 I feel like we don't have the digital discipleship programs understood to on-ramp and off-ramp 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:22.500 people from the actual digital experience into our worship experience, right? 00:27:22.540 --> 00:27:26.620 Or into a church setting or a small group, but you are right. 00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:29.480 We consume a lot of this digital. 00:27:29.720 --> 00:27:35.420 We may, to be honest, some of the times we make it cool to be on digital because of the 00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:37.800 things that we do and how we just make digital move. 00:27:38.460 --> 00:27:42.720 So that's about exposure to other aspects. 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:49.600 Like I did a whole two years where I immersed myself in multi-ethnic culture to see how it 00:27:49.600 --> 00:27:52.900 was and if there was a difference between this one and that one. 00:27:53.500 --> 00:28:00.600 And let me tell you, it ain't much difference between you and me, but here's the bigger difference. 00:28:00.600 --> 00:28:06.480 And that is the digital divide because it impacts the disproportionate race and culture of people 00:28:06.480 --> 00:28:09.140 more than it impacts the dominant culture. 00:28:09.340 --> 00:28:11.740 And so we have to be cognizant of that. 00:28:12.080 --> 00:28:12.920 Now watch this. 00:28:13.020 --> 00:28:13.580 You're right. 00:28:13.720 --> 00:28:20.660 The women, they consume this at a high rate and a high clip all the time. 00:28:20.760 --> 00:28:26.140 And I can tell you, brother, there are a lot of African-American churches running live streams. 00:28:26.140 --> 00:28:33.820 Now, not the whole totality, but a great deal of them are using the live stream, but they 00:28:33.820 --> 00:28:40.640 don't know much of how to integrate them into their day to day walk in terms of creating 00:28:40.640 --> 00:28:47.780 digital discipleship models and insert a person like me where I have lived these experience. 00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:53.260 I've been a part of those and I understand how these makeups work in a church setting, whether 00:28:53.260 --> 00:28:58.840 it be an African-American or a multi-COVID and, and we are more than more of the same than 00:28:58.840 --> 00:28:59.560 we are different. 00:29:00.180 --> 00:29:03.120 Again, as I stated, the divide is what it is. 00:29:03.700 --> 00:29:05.420 The resources is what it is. 00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:07.260 But I think this is about exposure for your brother. 00:29:07.260 --> 00:29:12.120 Cause there's, I'll give you a church, a Wheeler Avenue Baptist church, uh, located in 00:29:12.120 --> 00:29:18.140 Houston, Texas, uh, is a church that every Sunday, at least when I watched them last, I think 00:29:18.140 --> 00:29:20.740 that had 26,000 views live. 00:29:21.800 --> 00:29:22.160 Wow. 00:29:22.240 --> 00:29:22.500 Okay. 00:29:22.500 --> 00:29:23.300 That's in Houston. 00:29:24.020 --> 00:29:27.040 Um, there is a church in Florida that I visited. 00:29:27.040 --> 00:29:28.940 I want to say it's family church. 00:29:29.080 --> 00:29:31.060 I visited family church when I was there for a conference. 00:29:31.260 --> 00:29:32.420 I enjoy family church. 00:29:32.540 --> 00:29:33.380 Family church was cool. 00:29:33.760 --> 00:29:38.940 So they, how they, their, their makeup is all about community and being a part of the 00:29:38.940 --> 00:29:40.780 community experience in Florida. 00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:43.480 And so that was real as West Palm beach, as a matter of fact. 00:29:43.820 --> 00:29:44.720 So that was really cool. 00:29:45.560 --> 00:29:48.940 Um, and then there, I was actually just that family church a couple of weeks ago. 00:29:48.940 --> 00:29:50.000 Hey man, I keep going. 00:29:50.240 --> 00:29:52.740 So, so the IT dude, the family church, cool guy salute. 00:29:53.240 --> 00:29:56.340 Um, but another church, um, that's, that's really cool. 00:29:56.400 --> 00:30:00.480 Now you have, um, you can, Potter's house is an anomaly, right? 00:30:00.780 --> 00:30:06.100 It is one that has thousands of people watching, but it is an anomaly and it is a multi-ethnic 00:30:06.100 --> 00:30:06.680 experience. 00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:10.820 And so now you have like Potter's house, Fort worth that people ignore, which is a good 00:30:10.820 --> 00:30:11.980 friend of mine, Patrick Winfield. 00:30:12.280 --> 00:30:13.760 They have many people. 00:30:13.840 --> 00:30:15.740 The one North has many people. 00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:16.500 Here's another church. 00:30:16.560 --> 00:30:19.820 And I'm just using Dallas, uh, one community church, Conway Edwards. 00:30:20.560 --> 00:30:23.980 He has, he, he just had 500 people get saved. 00:30:23.980 --> 00:30:25.880 And I think two or 300 get baptized. 00:30:26.660 --> 00:30:31.840 So this is about exposure more so than it is about under representation. 00:30:31.840 --> 00:30:38.220 Now, to your example of the pastor who wants everything to be blasted across the world that 00:30:38.220 --> 00:30:43.320 somebody can get saved in Ethiopia and Kazakhstan and all these other wishful places. 00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:48.440 Let me tell you something, pastor, you need to curtail your dreams. 00:30:48.780 --> 00:30:56.560 You are called usually to a local establishment and God may provide you the digital footprint to 00:30:56.560 --> 00:30:58.500 be called to a more global one. 00:30:58.900 --> 00:31:04.340 And usually that digital footprint is created through Facebook ads and YouTube funding. 00:31:04.680 --> 00:31:06.860 And most of us are not ready to have that conversation. 00:31:08.840 --> 00:31:09.600 It's interesting. 00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:12.280 We may dig into that here in a little bit. 00:31:12.520 --> 00:31:13.020 Yes, sir. 00:31:13.120 --> 00:31:14.100 You know, it's, it's interesting. 00:31:14.700 --> 00:31:16.000 Conway Edwards is a friend. 00:31:16.220 --> 00:31:22.740 I've, I've, I've spoken at, uh, at one community a lot and, and, um, um, no, uh, like they did 00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:27.020 an excellent virtual, but we actually built their virtual reality ministry for them a couple 00:31:27.020 --> 00:31:29.620 of years ago and, and, and, and several other things along the way. 00:31:29.900 --> 00:31:33.580 Um, but you know, and they're, they're an example of, of a hybrid church, a physical 00:31:33.580 --> 00:31:34.560 church doing digital. 00:31:34.720 --> 00:31:38.600 And you were talking about how, you know, I say fidgetal, but that's, you know, I get 00:31:38.600 --> 00:31:39.400 booed for saying that word. 00:31:39.460 --> 00:31:39.760 It's okay. 00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:47.060 But the, but part of this really gets back to, um, the integration beyond just the broadcast 00:31:47.060 --> 00:31:50.280 could be on the content and getting into day to day. 00:31:50.360 --> 00:31:50.800 Yes. 00:31:50.920 --> 00:31:54.840 Um, and so you said some things about groups and, and I mentioned some, some churches, but 00:31:54.840 --> 00:32:00.380 would love to maybe get into specifics if you, if you were able to share, like what would 00:32:00.380 --> 00:32:07.300 specifically, tangibly, practically, um, what does an integration into an African-American 00:32:07.300 --> 00:32:12.840 life, uh, Monday through Friday, Monday through Saturday, like any other time, the 9am Sunday, 00:32:12.980 --> 00:32:18.460 what does it look like to integrate, uh, a, a hybrid physical and digital together? 00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:21.880 How does, how does digital make the physical engagement better? 00:32:22.420 --> 00:32:22.560 Yeah. 00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:22.960 Yeah. 00:32:23.120 --> 00:32:24.060 Good question, brother. 00:32:24.180 --> 00:32:28.420 And salute to one of my clients who I'm the communication director for in South Carolina, 00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:30.700 Spartanburg, uh, that is Mount Moriah. 00:32:30.700 --> 00:32:36.560 And so we are taking and using social media and digital to our advantage. 00:32:36.680 --> 00:32:39.820 And I'm going to use them as an example, because I know I won't get in trouble and I won't 00:32:39.820 --> 00:32:43.300 violate any NDAs that I may have signed in the past or current. 00:32:43.600 --> 00:32:50.140 So that being said, uh, one of the things that we did when I first got there is we made 00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:55.540 sure that we had a simplistic digital presence and I'm going to go through my process because 00:32:55.540 --> 00:32:58.260 I'm a project manager and I just have to go through it and give you my spiel. 00:32:58.540 --> 00:33:00.200 Simplistic digital presence. 00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:01.800 That is helpful. 00:33:02.180 --> 00:33:03.160 It's easy to communicate. 00:33:03.520 --> 00:33:04.340 Everybody can see it. 00:33:04.360 --> 00:33:06.300 So we had to go through a brand and restructuring. 00:33:06.460 --> 00:33:08.820 We're now about to finish, redo the website. 00:33:09.600 --> 00:33:12.060 And I'm going to come back to that because that's an important piece. 00:33:12.480 --> 00:33:15.920 The website is for the external use of our visitors. 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:21.660 We want the external customers to go directly to the website and integrate themselves there 00:33:21.660 --> 00:33:26.380 first to get information that'll be pertinent to that community specifically. 00:33:26.640 --> 00:33:32.400 Because what I may do for South Carolina, I may not do in Baltimore or LA or Nashville or 00:33:32.400 --> 00:33:33.320 whatever the case may be. 00:33:33.500 --> 00:33:36.460 Each one is going to have a different approach and I'm just using them as an example. 00:33:36.900 --> 00:33:42.900 So we, we take that and we, we redo the website to make sure that we are from an external standpoint, 00:33:43.060 --> 00:33:46.740 answering all questions on that front landing page of that website. 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:47.640 Right. 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:53.600 And then we're going to use things like the learn more button to off-road them into next 00:33:53.600 --> 00:33:57.340 steps, membership, discipleship. 00:33:57.440 --> 00:33:59.520 This is something that I'm doing currently. 00:33:59.660 --> 00:34:01.060 It's not nothing that's old. 00:34:01.320 --> 00:34:02.660 It's something I'm doing currently. 00:34:02.800 --> 00:34:04.980 And the website should be up probably tomorrow. 00:34:05.060 --> 00:34:08.600 I believe my team is working on it, but we have that. 00:34:08.660 --> 00:34:09.900 Hey, join us here. 00:34:10.040 --> 00:34:11.440 Here's our live page. 00:34:11.520 --> 00:34:12.740 Here is your next steps. 00:34:13.020 --> 00:34:13.980 Here is this event. 00:34:14.100 --> 00:34:19.740 Here is that event and that's good for an external user in terms of how we integrate them into 00:34:19.740 --> 00:34:20.920 our process. 00:34:21.020 --> 00:34:27.480 But now, oh, my bad, my, my, I'm going to switch. 00:34:28.300 --> 00:34:29.840 I'm not going to switch devices. 00:34:30.760 --> 00:34:33.180 My camera, my other camera finally came up. 00:34:33.580 --> 00:34:34.400 I can switch. 00:34:34.540 --> 00:34:34.780 It's cool. 00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:35.060 Okay. 00:34:35.620 --> 00:34:35.940 All right. 00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:36.400 Yeah, go ahead. 00:34:36.800 --> 00:34:41.080 We can, we got, um, so anyway, um, that's, uh, it still didn't come on. 00:34:41.560 --> 00:34:42.220 Let's do it. 00:34:42.240 --> 00:34:42.820 In discord. 00:34:42.940 --> 00:34:43.800 There you go. 00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:47.320 I was struggling looking at the other screen. 00:34:47.580 --> 00:34:53.600 So, um, so that being said, you know, we have a digital process and that front page 00:34:53.600 --> 00:35:00.980 is going to really get them on ramped off ramp into, um, or what I like to call it a tech 00:35:00.980 --> 00:35:03.740 world, uh, handshakes and handoff. 00:35:03.980 --> 00:35:06.500 We want to make sure that they are good for a new member. 00:35:06.920 --> 00:35:07.880 That's one way. 00:35:08.480 --> 00:35:16.320 Um, the other way is we want to make sure that the live chat experience is engaging. 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:24.380 Sometimes some of us in the African American space simply turn on our live feed and then 00:35:24.380 --> 00:35:25.160 that is it. 00:35:26.160 --> 00:35:31.920 We don't engage the clients that's outside of the live feed because those are potential 00:35:31.920 --> 00:35:35.180 people that want to join or be become a member of that church. 00:35:35.280 --> 00:35:42.540 So creating an engaging environment that is loving brings people back the center of the whole 00:35:42.540 --> 00:35:43.220 thing, right? 00:35:43.700 --> 00:35:44.780 That's important. 00:35:44.980 --> 00:35:45.540 Cool. 00:35:46.200 --> 00:35:52.680 So once we've done that, now we're going to ask that have, I'm gonna get right there, 00:35:52.720 --> 00:35:52.880 brother. 00:35:52.940 --> 00:35:58.960 We're going to ask them to say, Hey, would you like to become a member? 00:35:59.360 --> 00:36:04.740 And we're going to have a digital process for those who are in-house and external. 00:36:05.020 --> 00:36:09.700 And that process is going to route them to something called either adult ministry or assimilation. 00:36:10.660 --> 00:36:12.100 That is the whole target. 00:36:12.360 --> 00:36:16.580 We're trying to reposition people back into the local church. 00:36:16.780 --> 00:36:22.260 And if the local church has a online campus passes, white beard said, then we're trying 00:36:22.260 --> 00:36:23.920 to get them fostered in the community. 00:36:23.920 --> 00:36:29.760 So let now we take a right turn and we say, here is our Facebook group, or we say, here 00:36:29.760 --> 00:36:30.980 is our discord group. 00:36:31.060 --> 00:36:33.260 And then this is going to be our small group. 00:36:33.260 --> 00:36:37.720 And we're going to build and foster this connection in that manner. 00:36:37.860 --> 00:36:44.000 So those are a couple of ways in which we are integrating the digital discipleship model. 00:36:44.160 --> 00:36:51.380 And I think the last and most important way that I'm start, I'm, I am going to be really 00:36:51.380 --> 00:36:53.000 big on coming forward. 00:36:53.120 --> 00:36:57.640 And that is setting up ways where the pastor doesn't have to repeat his or herself. 00:36:58.300 --> 00:37:05.540 And that means we need to create learning models, learning management models so that people can 00:37:05.540 --> 00:37:07.640 watch and become members digitally. 00:37:08.160 --> 00:37:13.660 You can't be really serious about digital if you didn't create a model that exists digitally. 00:37:13.940 --> 00:37:20.080 And so now if we have an LMS system that is within the website, we can track milestones, we 00:37:20.080 --> 00:37:24.160 can track progress, and we can track you and give you the information you need. 00:37:24.300 --> 00:37:29.180 And this can happen for any church in specifically a black one. 00:37:29.760 --> 00:37:30.840 That's my spiel, bro. 00:37:30.840 --> 00:37:34.960 You just spooked a whole bunch of people by then tracking like 12 times. 00:37:35.380 --> 00:37:38.440 So that, that, that aside, no, I love what you're talking about. 00:37:38.500 --> 00:37:44.620 And because I mean, ultimately a lot of that is, I mean, there's, there's some old technique 00:37:44.620 --> 00:37:44.960 there. 00:37:45.040 --> 00:37:46.220 It's nothing new under the sun. 00:37:46.420 --> 00:37:47.280 Absolutely, bro. 00:37:47.800 --> 00:37:50.460 The, the, the, the heart of this is, is there's intentionality. 00:37:50.780 --> 00:37:56.380 Like it's, we are intentionally going to use this technology for, uh, for this benefit. 00:37:56.380 --> 00:38:00.940 And, you know, you've said several times to drive people to, to physical buildings for, for that. 00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:05.180 And, um, you know, there's a lot of, there's a lot of churches that do that. 00:38:05.220 --> 00:38:06.780 Now we, we, we will get into this a little bit. 00:38:06.800 --> 00:38:09.900 We work with digital churches without, big churches without buildings. 00:38:09.900 --> 00:38:15.360 But, um, the, the fact is, is that there's, there's far more opportunities for physical 00:38:15.360 --> 00:38:20.560 churches to better engage people digitally, uh, than even the, the amount of digital churches 00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:21.580 that are out there. 00:38:21.580 --> 00:38:27.600 And can I say this, Jeff, can I say this before you, before you, um, because I would love to 00:38:27.600 --> 00:38:34.320 see more African-American churches or black and brown people do digital churches and do 00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:34.840 them well. 00:38:35.440 --> 00:38:41.120 I think some of them don't have the information or know-how to create that. 00:38:41.120 --> 00:38:47.720 So I, I, I believe now in this society, we can create that model to exist, uh, that Jeff 00:38:47.720 --> 00:38:54.280 and I are speaking about, you know, there was, um, TD Jakes is what's the Potter's house, 00:38:54.340 --> 00:38:54.480 right? 00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:55.280 That's Dallas. 00:38:56.280 --> 00:39:05.580 His son, I want to say launched a, a digital only church that was based out of Denver or 00:39:05.580 --> 00:39:06.460 somewhere in Colorado. 00:39:06.460 --> 00:39:13.900 You talking about the, you talking about one church, uh, at first one church was in LA and 00:39:13.900 --> 00:39:19.620 it was a physical church and then their church transitioned because they moved to Dallas and 00:39:19.620 --> 00:39:24.640 now they have one church, one church, Denver that is connected to one church LA and they 00:39:24.640 --> 00:39:26.120 do it the digital and physical way. 00:39:26.300 --> 00:39:26.740 Yeah. 00:39:27.320 --> 00:39:28.660 Oh, so they're, they're hybrid now. 00:39:28.720 --> 00:39:29.680 They're physical and digital. 00:39:29.840 --> 00:39:30.180 That's right. 00:39:30.340 --> 00:39:35.360 At some point, I guess when they were launching, they launched digital first and which, you 00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:39.040 know, if you're TD Jakes, the son, I would launch digital first too and build your following 00:39:39.040 --> 00:39:41.100 digitally and then evolve to physically. 00:39:41.340 --> 00:39:48.120 Do you know of, of any, uh, African American churches that are digital only? 00:39:48.200 --> 00:39:50.980 Like has, has anybody kind of hit your radar on that yet? 00:39:51.620 --> 00:39:53.880 No, I can't, I haven't, I haven't met one. 00:39:54.000 --> 00:40:00.080 I have, I see, I see them here and there, but I haven't done enough research to see if 00:40:00.080 --> 00:40:00.600 they are. 00:40:00.680 --> 00:40:01.440 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. 00:40:01.700 --> 00:40:02.460 Stop right there. 00:40:03.240 --> 00:40:09.440 Um, at one point, I think they went back to hybrid Clarence stores out of Chicago. 00:40:10.260 --> 00:40:18.100 He was doing strictly online, uh, and he had an online ministry for a minute and then he 00:40:18.100 --> 00:40:21.360 moved to doing digital and now Clarence stores is a great resource. 00:40:21.940 --> 00:40:27.620 Um, and so now you can see him positioning himself to do what I'm talking about in terms 00:40:27.620 --> 00:40:33.620 of creating this model of learning digitally, which allows your church to be anywhere at 00:40:33.620 --> 00:40:34.300 any time. 00:40:34.300 --> 00:40:37.660 And they have their, their tagline is Morris Hill anywhere. 00:40:37.860 --> 00:40:40.680 And so that means his church can be anywhere at any time. 00:40:40.780 --> 00:40:45.860 So if I was thinking of somebody who, who I believe was doing it or going that direction, 00:40:46.200 --> 00:40:48.360 Clarence stores is definitely that guy. 00:40:49.240 --> 00:40:49.720 Yeah. 00:40:50.220 --> 00:40:51.920 Um, there are African Americans. 00:40:52.040 --> 00:40:52.540 It's interesting. 00:40:52.620 --> 00:40:54.560 I would love some information on Clarence. 00:40:54.720 --> 00:40:56.700 Um, there's a little offline. 00:40:57.080 --> 00:41:01.200 The there, there, I mean, there are African Americans that are doing this. 00:41:01.200 --> 00:41:03.120 Like Andre, do you know Andre Anderson? 00:41:03.480 --> 00:41:05.800 Um, barbecue church, barbecue. 00:41:06.160 --> 00:41:07.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:41:07.860 --> 00:41:14.360 I mean, like he's, he's, he's solid and doing all sorts of stuff digitally, but like, he's 00:41:14.360 --> 00:41:18.920 more excited about barbecue grills than African American culture or whatever. 00:41:19.060 --> 00:41:21.840 So like, it's, it's kind of a different, it's a different vibe. 00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:26.040 I guess I would say talking, talking with, with Andre, that guy's, that guy's talking about 00:41:26.040 --> 00:41:31.000 like smoked sausage and all sorts of like he's, he's giving me, I'm doing a podcast trying 00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:32.020 to discover what his church is. 00:41:32.020 --> 00:41:35.000 And he's giving me recipes for, for like what he's like, you're going to, you're going to 00:41:35.000 --> 00:41:41.340 come over to my house and we're going to cook this and this and this and like, Oh my gosh. 00:41:41.340 --> 00:41:41.660 Yes. 00:41:41.660 --> 00:41:46.420 Like I need to get Andre back on just, just for, just to talk about the food that I'm going 00:41:46.420 --> 00:41:47.180 to maybe one day. 00:41:47.180 --> 00:41:53.360 I think, I think for us in terms of creating a digital only church, here are some components 00:41:53.360 --> 00:41:58.440 that we have to create and I believe it can be done, but the components have to be created. 00:41:58.560 --> 00:42:09.140 At some point we have to figure out how to have the, the community at large feel like an actual 00:42:09.140 --> 00:42:15.020 physical church because an African-American diaspora community is a lifeline for us. 00:42:15.400 --> 00:42:15.800 Right. 00:42:16.040 --> 00:42:22.300 And so you can do digital community, but for us, we like to have that nice, good hug from 00:42:22.300 --> 00:42:27.240 grandmother that's on the front row to help us go along the way or have a conversation. 00:42:27.480 --> 00:42:33.080 Or as, as, as mentioned, having meals, food is a, is a huge thing for us that gives us 00:42:33.080 --> 00:42:34.500 that source of community. 00:42:34.920 --> 00:42:41.380 So let's say you did church pop-ups, but for the most part, your church is digital and we 00:42:41.380 --> 00:42:45.580 just do the pop-ups to make sure that biblically we are doing as far as what the Bible says in 00:42:45.580 --> 00:42:46.220 the book of Acts. 00:42:46.360 --> 00:42:49.260 And that is coming together as much as we should. 00:42:49.520 --> 00:42:49.700 Right. 00:42:50.460 --> 00:42:57.080 And we could still have that approach and still be able to not lose a red cent as far as anything 00:42:57.080 --> 00:42:57.480 else. 00:42:57.920 --> 00:42:59.220 So I think it could be done. 00:42:59.800 --> 00:43:04.400 It's just, nobody has leaned into that fully, but they have leaned into more. 00:43:04.400 --> 00:43:11.080 So it's having that online pastor or our campus pastor to do exactly what I'm mentioning, where 00:43:11.080 --> 00:43:12.600 we're getting both of the hybrid. 00:43:12.740 --> 00:43:19.820 So I am watching more African-American churches move to the hybrid model and embrace it because 00:43:19.820 --> 00:43:24.260 they saw what happened before and they don't want to get caught again like that. 00:43:25.020 --> 00:43:25.160 Yeah. 00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:32.720 Well, a hybrid is the, I mean, hiring a, an online campus pastor, a hybrid model, like that's 00:43:32.720 --> 00:43:38.340 the less, that's the least invasive way to add digital to a physical church. 00:43:38.340 --> 00:43:38.620 That is correct. 00:43:39.020 --> 00:43:40.240 Let's hire a guy. 00:43:40.240 --> 00:43:46.040 Let's make that his problem and, you know, watch him succeed or fail. 00:43:46.180 --> 00:43:47.660 And if he fails, we'll find somebody else. 00:43:47.740 --> 00:43:52.940 But like, it's, it's, I don't have to, you know, really rethink things. 00:43:52.940 --> 00:43:54.340 It's not going to impact physical. 00:43:54.600 --> 00:43:55.860 We just put cameras in here. 00:43:55.960 --> 00:44:01.140 We record and, you know, somebody pastorally cares for the people that are not in the building. 00:44:01.720 --> 00:44:06.600 Um, and, and that's, that's not to discredit, like for, for many, that needs to be the step, 00:44:06.600 --> 00:44:07.800 uh, for today. 00:44:08.360 --> 00:44:10.900 Uh, cause we don't want to re-engage. 00:44:11.100 --> 00:44:12.240 We don't want to rediscover. 00:44:12.400 --> 00:44:17.460 We don't want to have to re-experience, um, COVID all over again and, and what it was 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:21.080 like to be locked out and, and caught without some of, some of those issues. 00:44:21.580 --> 00:44:26.720 Um, our, there, there is another lady, I'm going to say this, Jeff, there is another lady 00:44:26.720 --> 00:44:28.900 and she used to do it. 00:44:28.940 --> 00:44:29.960 I think she still does it. 00:44:30.000 --> 00:44:35.200 She is a, she's a doctor, I think somewhere in the Midwest and I'm going to get her name 00:44:35.200 --> 00:44:35.460 wrong. 00:44:35.520 --> 00:44:39.580 I'm trying to look it up real quick, but I think it's her name of her show was like pink 00:44:39.580 --> 00:44:40.780 robe chronicles. 00:44:41.300 --> 00:44:47.100 And she would do an actual worship service and experience in her robe and it would be 00:44:47.100 --> 00:44:48.120 three or 400 people there. 00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:49.340 So I've seen it. 00:44:49.980 --> 00:44:50.740 I've seen it. 00:44:50.800 --> 00:44:51.200 Yes, sir. 00:44:51.780 --> 00:44:52.940 I've seen it done. 00:44:53.260 --> 00:44:57.620 And she would, and she, I want to say, I have to get the name and I'll put it in the chat 00:44:57.620 --> 00:45:05.560 later, but definitely it has been done even prior to COVID definitely has been done. 00:45:05.980 --> 00:45:08.620 Um, just hasn't been done at a more prevalent. 00:45:08.720 --> 00:45:11.020 We, it didn't break the algorithm, right? 00:45:11.060 --> 00:45:13.520 We, they weren't over there doing something really crazy. 00:45:13.640 --> 00:45:16.600 They were simply over there preaching to their former people. 00:45:16.660 --> 00:45:21.560 It's another guy out of Memphis, a brother named Earl, uh, Abyssinia Baptist church. 00:45:21.740 --> 00:45:24.220 For the most part, his church is digital. 00:45:24.780 --> 00:45:28.680 Like I just saw him preaching on a beach Sunday, right? 00:45:28.780 --> 00:45:34.000 So there are some have doing it, but not at the rate that we would want to see them at 00:45:34.000 --> 00:45:34.920 some of these major ministries. 00:45:35.000 --> 00:45:35.820 Yeah, there it is. 00:45:35.920 --> 00:45:36.840 My man got it. 00:45:37.260 --> 00:45:39.400 Melva Sampson, Dr. Melva Sampson. 00:45:39.820 --> 00:45:41.420 She, she does it. 00:45:41.840 --> 00:45:42.480 My man. 00:45:42.560 --> 00:45:43.540 Hey, we got to connect, bro. 00:45:43.640 --> 00:45:44.180 You're all right. 00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:47.500 Uh, she, she, she does it for sure. 00:45:48.720 --> 00:45:49.120 Yeah. 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:51.260 White beard, DK, you two should connect. 00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:52.900 Uh, DK, I'm going to warn you. 00:45:53.480 --> 00:45:55.060 White beard's a little eclectic. 00:45:55.280 --> 00:45:57.840 Uh, so like he's, uh, but he's, he's, he's a solid guy. 00:45:57.920 --> 00:46:01.660 He's, he's, he's becoming a good friend here of, of the church digital. 00:46:01.920 --> 00:46:02.220 Love that man. 00:46:02.280 --> 00:46:06.940 Um, so, so answer me this as, as we're getting into this. 00:46:06.960 --> 00:46:11.540 And by the way, uh, if there's any questions, throw them in chat and, uh, towards the end, 00:46:11.580 --> 00:46:13.920 we'll probably open it up and, and, and let you guys even come on. 00:46:14.300 --> 00:46:16.820 Um, but talk to me about this. 00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:23.380 Um, are the majority of churches, African-American churches, would you say the majority at this 00:46:23.380 --> 00:46:26.560 point are comfortable with a hybrid model? 00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:27.680 It's, it's interesting. 00:46:27.680 --> 00:46:30.700 Like, uh, push pay stats recently. 00:46:30.940 --> 00:46:32.380 Let me put some grounding into this. 00:46:32.740 --> 00:46:38.000 91% of, of churches that push pay, uh, interviewed are streaming services online. 00:46:38.440 --> 00:46:43.440 Uh, 90% are, are hybrid, would consider themselves hybrid. 00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:49.120 Like nine out of 10 churches in America today would consider themselves hybrid. 00:46:49.740 --> 00:46:54.260 Um, do you think that carries over or something close to that carries over an African-American? 00:46:54.500 --> 00:46:55.560 What do you think the stats are? 00:46:56.720 --> 00:47:00.360 Yeah, uh, I would bring up Brianna Parker's stat that she put up. 00:47:00.620 --> 00:47:02.260 Um, I don't have it on me. 00:47:02.500 --> 00:47:03.400 I may be able to bring it up in a minute. 00:47:03.780 --> 00:47:05.960 Uh, but I feel like- 00:47:05.960 --> 00:47:07.540 Oh, you put that on Facebook recently, right? 00:47:07.580 --> 00:47:07.800 That's right. 00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:08.380 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:47:08.380 --> 00:47:08.680 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:47:08.680 --> 00:47:12.180 Dr. Brianna Parker, she does the research on African-American churches. 00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:16.440 She is, to me, the GOAT when it comes to that information. 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:23.140 And I don't mind referencing, referencing to her because look, man, she, she's done the research 00:47:23.140 --> 00:47:25.200 and the legwork necessary. 00:47:25.200 --> 00:47:26.180 And here's what she says. 00:47:26.720 --> 00:47:29.500 Uh, this is, uh, Black Millennial Cafe. 00:47:29.700 --> 00:47:35.700 If you want to look it up, Dr. Brianna Parker, uh, it says this 41% of black church members 00:47:35.700 --> 00:47:38.460 say they want to continue with virtual church. 00:47:39.000 --> 00:47:41.120 Digital ministry can't be ignored. 00:47:41.560 --> 00:47:48.860 59% of black church members are only willing to commit to returning to church in a hybrid 00:47:48.860 --> 00:47:49.640 model. 00:47:50.180 --> 00:47:52.060 Now I've seen that push pay report. 00:47:52.120 --> 00:47:55.940 And my fear is that it was probably one sided. 00:47:56.340 --> 00:47:56.920 That's my fear. 00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:57.460 That's my fear. 00:47:57.460 --> 00:47:58.340 I'm not sure. 00:47:58.340 --> 00:47:59.880 And I'm not judging them if it is. 00:47:59.940 --> 00:48:00.840 I do not know. 00:48:01.100 --> 00:48:02.720 I don't have a direct connect. 00:48:03.200 --> 00:48:08.500 Uh, I just feel like they may or may not have gotten it and represented everybody well 00:48:08.500 --> 00:48:08.920 there. 00:48:09.340 --> 00:48:15.820 Um, but I know she's attempting to create the narrative to show people here is what these 00:48:15.820 --> 00:48:22.040 groups of people desire and they do desire a church that is a hybrid model. 00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:28.740 Um, and so if they desire a church as hybrid model, then we have to pay attention to that. 00:48:28.980 --> 00:48:30.380 We can't ignore that. 00:48:30.540 --> 00:48:33.360 We, we have to set things in place here. 00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:35.480 Here are a couple of things that you want to set in place. 00:48:35.640 --> 00:48:39.980 If you are an African American church and you're listening to me, first thing is you want to 00:48:39.980 --> 00:48:43.380 make sure the video quality is aesthetically pleasing. 00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:49.660 You can no longer risk having these fuzzy pictures and expecting people to stay on your 00:48:49.660 --> 00:48:51.480 live feed at any time. 00:48:51.520 --> 00:48:52.280 It's not happening. 00:48:52.660 --> 00:48:56.580 You want to make sure your sound quality is up to standard, right? 00:48:57.140 --> 00:48:58.680 Your sound quality is important. 00:48:58.680 --> 00:49:00.660 Just like your video quality is important. 00:49:00.800 --> 00:49:02.160 And here's the most important thing. 00:49:02.220 --> 00:49:06.040 Once you get done with the aesthetics and how they look, you want to make sure that your 00:49:06.040 --> 00:49:07.680 pastor is preaching about something. 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:11.160 Now I know this is going to be risky and it may get me in trouble or cancel. 00:49:11.320 --> 00:49:13.640 And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm braced for both of them. 00:49:14.360 --> 00:49:17.180 Some of these pastors that want to go digital should not go digital. 00:49:17.980 --> 00:49:21.440 They should close down their digital and just preach to their community church because that's 00:49:21.440 --> 00:49:22.560 what works for them. 00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:25.240 Some of these things should not be seen or shown. 00:49:25.500 --> 00:49:30.900 They should be put behind a paywall or safe later at a different time for other people 00:49:30.900 --> 00:49:31.640 to experience. 00:49:31.780 --> 00:49:34.380 So to the answer to the question, absolutely. 00:49:35.000 --> 00:49:36.540 Here's what the, here's what the church is saying. 00:49:37.120 --> 00:49:38.840 We want to have variety. 00:49:39.160 --> 00:49:42.660 We want to be able to experience church both in person. 00:49:42.660 --> 00:49:46.800 And if I'm on vacation, I want to be able to take church wherever I go. 00:49:47.560 --> 00:49:51.480 And some of these leaders aren't on board with that. 00:49:51.660 --> 00:49:57.440 They, I had a pastor once said to me, and, and, and I love when they start the statement 00:49:57.440 --> 00:50:02.600 off like this, cause it's funny, you know, being a member has its privileges. 00:50:04.480 --> 00:50:12.220 And so we used to joke. 00:50:12.360 --> 00:50:13.320 I know I do, man. 00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:13.680 I love it. 00:50:13.680 --> 00:50:14.260 We used to joke. 00:50:14.260 --> 00:50:19.300 It's like being, being a church member that won't even give me like a free fry at McDonald's. 00:50:19.300 --> 00:50:21.240 Like, like, anyway, that's, that's funny. 00:50:21.340 --> 00:50:21.620 That's good. 00:50:21.620 --> 00:50:23.500 Being a member has its privileges. 00:50:23.680 --> 00:50:24.860 Being a member has its privileges. 00:50:25.260 --> 00:50:27.820 And one of the privileges should be that you, this is what the pastor said. 00:50:28.060 --> 00:50:32.900 One of the privileges should be that you should show up to church and you shouldn't do digital. 00:50:34.140 --> 00:50:36.460 And then his mind changed when he received a check. 00:50:39.600 --> 00:50:40.520 You got what I'm saying? 00:50:40.860 --> 00:50:44.400 So now it took a, it took, it took incentivization. 00:50:44.620 --> 00:50:47.620 If that's a word today, you were incentivized by the check. 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:51.060 And now you're saying, okay, let's, let's offer something for digital. 00:50:51.620 --> 00:50:54.320 Because I see that giving is coming. 00:50:54.640 --> 00:50:55.660 Giving has been there. 00:50:57.000 --> 00:51:00.560 Maybe if you teach about something, giving would go up. 00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:03.480 I'm off of my soapbox now. 00:51:04.120 --> 00:51:05.480 Those three things you need. 00:51:06.000 --> 00:51:13.580 So, so go ahead and send any hate mail to DK at, no, it's, it's all good. 00:51:14.460 --> 00:51:17.040 That's, that's not even the worst thing that I've said this week. 00:51:17.040 --> 00:51:18.860 So you're, you're, you're fine. 00:51:19.140 --> 00:51:19.480 Yes, sir. 00:51:20.120 --> 00:51:21.680 That's, that's so good, man. 00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:24.980 That's, that's awesome. 00:51:25.440 --> 00:51:27.360 What, a couple, a couple more questions. 00:51:27.560 --> 00:51:27.840 Yeah, man. 00:51:31.780 --> 00:51:41.880 Does, how do we change and get more adoption, more understanding? 00:51:42.140 --> 00:51:42.360 Yeah. 00:51:42.820 --> 00:51:49.140 Of digital, like, it's funny, like White Beard, White Beard works for an African-American church. 00:51:49.680 --> 00:52:01.280 You know, others have some connections, you know, within that, even in our audience, there's going to be people that work at or are connected with African-American churches that may or may not be supporting this. 00:52:01.520 --> 00:52:05.120 But yeah, how, what, what, what needs to happen? 00:52:05.200 --> 00:52:08.100 What's, what's some practical things that we can do to kind of pivot here? 00:52:08.100 --> 00:52:09.380 I've been waiting for this question. 00:52:10.380 --> 00:52:12.040 So here's what I think. 00:52:12.780 --> 00:52:13.700 Here is a way. 00:52:14.080 --> 00:52:16.780 Here are some things that we need to do in no particular order. 00:52:18.040 --> 00:52:23.640 Number one, we need senior leadership to embrace the change. 00:52:26.420 --> 00:52:28.820 The, the, the fight is not the people. 00:52:29.720 --> 00:52:44.000 My conversation and consultant is more so of senior leadership and their fear or the fear of the unknown for them and not knowing or educating themselves about what could be if you would allow it. 00:52:44.340 --> 00:52:44.860 Right. 00:52:45.320 --> 00:52:45.800 Cool. 00:52:45.800 --> 00:52:57.960 You need to have some faith that God can bring you the resources that you need to get the things that you need to go into the highways and byways and compel men to come. 00:52:58.080 --> 00:53:00.600 You need to be called to digital ministry. 00:53:01.520 --> 00:53:07.980 Some people aren't called to it and they shouldn't do it if you are not called to it. 00:53:08.220 --> 00:53:18.160 And if you are called to it, find somebody who's as passionate about it, like white beard here and get connected with them so they can help you foster and build that. 00:53:18.620 --> 00:53:21.900 I think partnership is a huge thing. 00:53:21.920 --> 00:53:24.080 It's a huge thing for me. 00:53:24.300 --> 00:53:30.300 And so I do my best that while I work for these various churches is that I always set time. 00:53:30.380 --> 00:53:31.660 This is kind of what my podcast about. 00:53:31.740 --> 00:53:33.420 It's kind of what my connection with SMC is about. 00:53:33.660 --> 00:53:47.960 I'm always setting time to get information that I'm learning and put it out there into the atmosphere because I know there's somebody who is listening that don't have the resources to afford it, but they're thinking about it and they're dreaming about it. 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:49.680 And I'm having a conversation about it. 00:53:49.680 --> 00:53:51.820 And this is my communal give back. 00:53:52.240 --> 00:54:01.700 Every single time I do something for anybody else, I am bringing information for all of us to consume, to move ahead if we so desire. 00:54:02.260 --> 00:54:07.580 So partnership is important is one of the critical pieces. 00:54:07.580 --> 00:54:16.820 And then I love the church that was in Oregon recently who made a bold declaration that said they weren't called to a live church experience. 00:54:17.200 --> 00:54:20.140 Then we did a we did a recap on that. 00:54:20.160 --> 00:54:23.180 And I and I loved his after I heard it a couple of times. 00:54:23.480 --> 00:54:24.920 I loved his approach. 00:54:25.160 --> 00:54:26.000 We are called that. 00:54:26.040 --> 00:54:28.120 He said it is Oregon in the kingdom of God. 00:54:28.440 --> 00:54:29.600 That is the in between. 00:54:30.120 --> 00:54:37.740 And so if you feel like you are called to something more global, then your ministry should reflect. 00:54:38.340 --> 00:54:42.080 If you are not called, then your ministry should reflect. 00:54:42.520 --> 00:54:44.160 And that's how we should put it. 00:54:44.160 --> 00:54:53.940 And we shouldn't demonize people who want a more variety, more robust experience from the digital to the physical. 00:54:55.120 --> 00:54:57.560 Yeah, it's Irma McManus. 00:54:57.600 --> 00:54:58.500 I don't know if you've heard this quote. 00:54:58.600 --> 00:54:59.120 Oh, for sure. 00:54:59.300 --> 00:55:00.500 I'm making McManus said this. 00:55:00.640 --> 00:55:00.740 Yeah. 00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:13.380 He's like, if if you really love the physical church service, like if if the one thing you do and how you gauge success is the number of people that are sitting in the pews. 00:55:13.440 --> 00:55:17.620 Like if that's your thing, why would you put that online? 00:55:18.200 --> 00:55:21.100 Like it doesn't make any sense to put that online. 00:55:21.480 --> 00:55:25.940 Now, you know, I would I would challenge there's other things you can do online. 00:55:26.100 --> 00:55:28.860 There's other ways that you can be missional and engage. 00:55:29.300 --> 00:55:38.620 Even if you're you're, you know, hyper focusing on a specific area like Oregon, there's still digital ways to hyper focus on on Oregon. 00:55:39.080 --> 00:55:48.080 So you want to utilize digital, but that doesn't mean you have to utilize the online church service, the 70 minutes or whatever it is on Sunday morning. 00:55:48.260 --> 00:55:52.700 And it's so interesting that like that's been the that's been the conflict. 00:55:52.860 --> 00:55:55.380 It's like, oh, we got the church service on that. 00:55:55.400 --> 00:55:55.720 We're good. 00:55:56.000 --> 00:55:57.300 We got the church service online. 00:55:57.400 --> 00:55:58.360 That's that's all that we're doing. 00:55:58.380 --> 00:55:59.620 And it's like, no, no, no, that's not really. 00:55:59.720 --> 00:56:04.760 And you're you're so good at this and so eloquently explaining it like the online church service is the start of the conversation. 00:56:04.760 --> 00:56:06.120 It's not it's not the finish line. 00:56:06.240 --> 00:56:09.780 No, it's there's so much more that needs to needs to happen. 00:56:09.780 --> 00:56:14.960 Or otherwise, we're we're creating consumers of content, which, to your point, is not a good thing. 00:56:15.000 --> 00:56:15.820 That's not where we want to be. 00:56:15.880 --> 00:56:17.680 We need to move move beyond that. 00:56:17.680 --> 00:56:18.560 So so good. 00:56:19.680 --> 00:56:22.440 Hey, Melanie's asking a question here. 00:56:23.520 --> 00:56:29.740 My city is 80 percent white, 20 percent, 22 percent Hispanic and one percent black. 00:56:29.920 --> 00:56:33.860 Now, let's not do the math here and discover that's one hundred and three percent. 00:56:33.940 --> 00:56:34.840 Let's just assume the best. 00:56:37.220 --> 00:56:40.960 Former sundown town KKK history. 00:56:41.480 --> 00:56:47.100 So I'm curious if how digital church can provide a safe experience. 00:56:47.100 --> 00:56:53.860 So going back to the beginning, we talked a lot about somebody giving that safety, giving that safe experience feel. 00:56:53.860 --> 00:57:01.620 So she's in a town where one percent African-American digitally. 00:57:01.620 --> 00:57:06.000 That sounds like my old city where I'm from is Little Rock, Arkansas. 00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.080 So I hope that's not Springdale or Harrison, but I won't. 00:57:10.380 --> 00:57:15.060 That's where I'm trying to answer to answer the question. 00:57:15.140 --> 00:57:17.140 And again, there's no right or wrong. 00:57:17.140 --> 00:57:29.140 But if I'm trying to create safety and I'm thinking I already have these people represented and I'm creating safety, number one for the people internally. 00:57:29.140 --> 00:57:32.820 And I'm considering the people externally. 00:57:33.820 --> 00:57:38.820 So somebody that may look like me is going to be looking for songs. 00:57:39.900 --> 00:57:43.100 That they can hear them, that they can sing with you. 00:57:43.580 --> 00:57:46.580 Again, African-Americans love the community experience. 00:57:46.660 --> 00:57:46.820 Right. 00:57:47.540 --> 00:57:50.480 And so a part of our communal experience is singing together. 00:57:51.620 --> 00:57:52.860 It's a huge part. 00:57:53.300 --> 00:58:04.040 And so CCM, unfortunately, when it is song, it is five, five verses, three bamps that we have to understand and get. 00:58:04.560 --> 00:58:07.720 And we can't connect to that in most times. 00:58:08.100 --> 00:58:19.060 And so we have to sit there and look on the screen to try to keep up with and understand that cadence, because that is a different feel for us. 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:19.800 That's one. 00:58:20.420 --> 00:58:23.740 So the worship experience needs to be there. 00:58:23.940 --> 00:58:31.560 The preaching experience needs to be an experience that includes everybody, including the one percent. 00:58:31.900 --> 00:58:34.620 I love that one percent that includes that. 00:58:34.880 --> 00:58:45.200 That means I am sympathetic, understanding and willing to speak truth to power to what you may experience as the person you are. 00:58:45.840 --> 00:58:47.420 Point blank, period. 00:58:48.020 --> 00:59:01.380 Now, that is a risky conversation for some pastors because you're going to alienate the 80 percent when you attempt to speak to the other congregants that may not look like them. 00:59:02.060 --> 00:59:03.660 OK, so that leads me to the third point. 00:59:03.820 --> 00:59:10.200 So now we have to go in and do internal work to make sure that we're doing allyship correctly. 00:59:10.740 --> 00:59:16.280 And most of the time, that's where people are kind of off board and they think you're left wing, right wing. 00:59:16.600 --> 00:59:17.660 It's not about that. 00:59:18.020 --> 00:59:21.600 If I go into a worship experience, I want to feel God's presence. 00:59:22.280 --> 00:59:23.900 I don't want to feel your ethnicity. 00:59:24.600 --> 00:59:29.900 And if I feel your ethnicity more than God's presence, this is not the church for anybody. 00:59:30.700 --> 00:59:31.680 At any point. 00:59:32.240 --> 00:59:33.700 So that is important. 00:59:33.760 --> 00:59:35.140 I don't want to feel your politics. 00:59:35.800 --> 00:59:37.520 I want to feel God's presence. 00:59:38.520 --> 00:59:39.580 That is important. 00:59:39.780 --> 00:59:41.620 And so presence is community. 00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.400 It is fellowship. 00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:45.140 It is singing. 00:59:45.640 --> 00:59:47.480 It is the preaching experience. 00:59:48.200 --> 00:59:49.440 It is the safety. 00:59:50.040 --> 00:59:56.280 I hope that kind of answers a way that we can help foster an environment of safety for the 1%. 00:59:56.280 --> 00:59:58.780 I may I may do a podcast on that. 00:59:59.180 --> 00:59:59.960 That's a good topic. 01:00:01.320 --> 01:00:07.980 Yeah, that's that's interesting in that it actually kind of challenges even the idea of of preferences, right? 01:00:07.980 --> 01:00:19.980 Like you want to you want to feel God, not preferences, extra biblical ideology like the with the worship, the worship's aligning towards a biblical ideology. 01:00:20.040 --> 01:00:20.700 That's right. 01:00:20.700 --> 01:00:29.200 Not preferences that may come into play, which really flies even in the face of of, you know, white, black, whatever. 01:00:29.520 --> 01:00:33.180 Like it's it's it's that's, you know, what you're you're pulling the thread of. 01:00:33.220 --> 01:00:34.340 We're asking the wrong questions. 01:00:34.340 --> 01:00:35.780 It's it's more about God. 01:00:37.120 --> 01:00:37.600 Yes. 01:00:37.920 --> 01:00:48.080 Have you what's a good what's a good book like there's on this maybe that to really expose the African-American culture and Bible and scripture? 01:00:48.080 --> 01:01:02.260 Like is there there is a I'm trying to think is reading the reading the Bible black or reading the gospel black is something that I've read historically is is there a is there a book you fall back on or encourage some of some of your friends to read? 01:01:02.680 --> 01:01:05.080 I have some on my shelf if you allow me to grab them. 01:01:05.420 --> 01:01:06.700 I think I can grab them real quick. 01:01:06.800 --> 01:01:07.200 Hold on a second. 01:01:08.100 --> 01:01:08.260 Yeah. 01:01:10.440 --> 01:01:11.340 Oh, look at that. 01:01:11.400 --> 01:01:17.160 The camera even panned with plus the iPhone and it's tracking. 01:01:17.360 --> 01:01:18.720 Oh, that was so good, man. 01:01:21.720 --> 01:01:23.800 OK, so I will give three. 01:01:24.940 --> 01:01:31.220 Anytime we're talking about African-Americans, you want to definitely think about this is Howard Thurman Meditations of Heart. 01:01:31.780 --> 01:01:40.400 This is going to be he's a he's what's called a Christian mystic, but he definitely is going to represent and you can hear a lot of his sermons on Harvard. 01:01:40.640 --> 01:01:43.720 He has a listening room on Harvard seminary page. 01:01:44.100 --> 01:01:45.440 Definitely a good read. 01:01:47.620 --> 01:01:50.260 This is not a good one, but I grabbed it. 01:01:50.540 --> 01:01:52.460 So I feel like I'm going to share it anyway. 01:01:53.160 --> 01:01:58.380 This is this is more of a this is more of a leadership book. 01:01:58.480 --> 01:02:00.860 It is leadership in the age of the quick fix. 01:02:01.100 --> 01:02:01.560 This is one. 01:02:01.680 --> 01:02:03.340 This is a seminary text that I have. 01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:04.100 Let me move this down. 01:02:04.140 --> 01:02:04.340 Sorry. 01:02:05.020 --> 01:02:06.420 Seminary text that I use. 01:02:06.500 --> 01:02:08.000 That's really great for leadership. 01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:13.120 And then anything with MLK and let's not do the sanitize MLK. 01:02:13.220 --> 01:02:15.000 Let's do the real one, please. 01:02:15.620 --> 01:02:20.860 This is a testament of hope, essential writings and speeches of Martin Luther King. 01:02:21.160 --> 01:02:25.460 And if we take some of those, we can start a conversation. 01:02:26.860 --> 01:02:31.900 I would say find a good brother or sister who you can just share with. 01:02:31.900 --> 01:02:44.920 I love my seminary people at Phillips Theological Seminary in Tulsa, who I have allies there and we have conversations like this and they're willing to do the work here. 01:02:45.160 --> 01:02:48.380 And I love that you say bring up the reading because it's going to require you to do work. 01:02:48.480 --> 01:02:58.480 It's not going to be one of those places where you can't you're going to have to do some work to unearth some things and do away with some things in order to understand. 01:02:58.900 --> 01:03:06.920 I would even say, I would even say, man, attend a worship experience, get that in your spirit. 01:03:07.020 --> 01:03:10.740 Just just go there just to see for yourself what we're talking about. 01:03:11.100 --> 01:03:17.060 And if you have questions, find somebody that you can say, hey, I know this is this is this is a crying thought of you. 01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:18.460 And I want to apologize up front. 01:03:18.520 --> 01:03:21.500 But can you help educate me where it's not a problem? 01:03:22.120 --> 01:03:27.780 And most people will do that if you're looking at podcasting because we are podcasters. 01:03:27.840 --> 01:03:31.020 Of course, you want to look at my podcast or the SMC podcast. 01:03:31.740 --> 01:03:37.200 There are other people in the diaspora that you want to definitely look at. 01:03:37.240 --> 01:03:40.880 A pastor named Larry T. Cruder out of South Carolina, his podcast. 01:03:41.780 --> 01:03:47.100 There are various people in the the work that's willing to help you. 01:03:47.620 --> 01:03:52.400 Dr. Brianna Parker can't speak enough about her willing to help you help you understand. 01:03:52.520 --> 01:03:54.380 But it is going to require some work on your side. 01:03:54.500 --> 01:03:55.940 So that's what I would say, bro. 01:03:57.640 --> 01:03:58.900 Awesome, man. 01:03:58.960 --> 01:04:02.320 I've I've loved hanging out with you on doing this, having this conversation. 01:04:02.600 --> 01:04:04.960 Yeah, I don't think I said anything too stupid. 01:04:05.080 --> 01:04:06.180 Maybe maybe once or twice. 01:04:06.180 --> 01:04:09.620 But I don't I don't think we'll go viral for me being an idiot. 01:04:09.880 --> 01:04:12.020 Hopefully time will tell. 01:04:12.260 --> 01:04:14.400 But hey, as we're landing the plane here. 01:04:14.700 --> 01:04:15.760 Yeah, that's funny. 01:04:15.760 --> 01:04:16.920 As we're landing the plane here. 01:04:16.980 --> 01:04:17.660 Any closing thoughts? 01:04:18.380 --> 01:04:18.640 No, man. 01:04:18.660 --> 01:04:21.100 I appreciate you guys for for having me. 01:04:21.620 --> 01:04:27.600 Please make sure you check out SMC and myself, Niels and Aaron over there. 01:04:27.860 --> 01:04:30.220 Check out my podcast, drop the mic podcast. 01:04:30.600 --> 01:04:35.840 And I'm talking about various conversations myself and just just continue to pray for us 01:04:35.840 --> 01:04:45.820 as pray for me as I continue to make an impact digitally and help our people see the God of the grids. 01:04:46.640 --> 01:04:48.780 Hey, DK, thanks for jumping on here. 01:04:48.880 --> 01:04:50.400 SMC is social media church. 01:04:50.400 --> 01:04:52.060 It's a social media church podcast. 01:04:52.060 --> 01:04:56.200 So we'll put links to to DK stuff and social media church. 01:04:56.200 --> 01:04:56.780 And absolutely. 01:04:56.780 --> 01:05:01.820 And some of these will put them in the show notes and on the podcast and YouTube descriptions and all that stuff. 01:05:01.820 --> 01:05:03.960 So we'll get the resources out in front. 01:05:03.960 --> 01:05:09.160 But hey, so we're going to wrap up here with the podcast recording and discord. 01:05:09.160 --> 01:05:10.620 We're going to hang out, maybe talk here a little bit. 01:05:10.620 --> 01:05:12.220 If DK still got some time to do that. 01:05:12.220 --> 01:05:16.080 But thanks for jumping on the show with us today and we'll catch you next time. 01:05:16.160 --> 01:05:16.660 Y'all have a good one. 01:05:16.880 --> 01:05:17.080 Peace.