WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.100 I don't know if you've noticed or looked, but a lot of professional counselors, therapists, 00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:11.980 they're booked. It's hard to get into them a lot of times. And so either you have a waiting period 00:00:11.980 --> 00:00:17.900 or you have a hard time finding one at all. And so having somebody that can sit down and listen 00:00:17.900 --> 00:00:22.320 and talk to you, that's the biggest part to be able to just be there. 00:00:22.560 --> 00:00:25.400 That can make a difference in someone's life, just being there. 00:00:26.060 --> 00:00:31.000 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. Through this podcast, we'll talk about the 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:35.900 technological innovations within the church, but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address 00:00:35.900 --> 00:00:40.920 deeper questions. Is disciple making possible digitally? How should we approach the digital 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:45.480 mission field? Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? Oh, and where does 00:00:45.480 --> 00:00:51.640 the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? Whether you're a big or small church, 00:00:51.640 --> 00:00:56.480 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:56.840 --> 00:01:00.460 digitally and physically. And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:03.520 All right. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast episode. 00:01:06.340 --> 00:01:10.920 Wow. I probably should have looked that up in advance. I want to say this is 296. 00:01:12.380 --> 00:01:17.760 Hello, Melanie. We're doing a live stream here for this recording. Whitebeard Punk Monk 00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:26.580 does tell me it's 296. So anytime Whitebeard is in the Discord chat, he has several unofficial titles 00:01:26.580 --> 00:01:32.740 with the Church Digital. Number one, he is the resident digital theologian. And so anytime there's 00:01:32.740 --> 00:01:38.940 a theology question or like, dude, like I think he was alive during some of the Bible times. I'm not 00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:43.400 publicly calling him out for being old, but his beard's long enough that he can totally pull off the 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:49.100 look. But more than that, he is also the fact checker, especially for the Church Digital Podcast, 00:01:49.100 --> 00:01:55.840 because I make up crap all the time. And Whitebeard is always one to say yes or no, whether 00:01:55.840 --> 00:02:01.100 it's true. I'm not saying he publicly calls me a liar, but privately he's like, dude, you may want 00:02:01.100 --> 00:02:07.320 to like check that. And so I have to double back and repair it. Yeah, it does. He's like the Holy Spirit 00:02:07.320 --> 00:02:11.480 and the devil kind of sitting on the devil, kind of sitting on the shoulders. Yeah. If you're watching 00:02:11.480 --> 00:02:15.300 on YouTube and you're watching me kind of bounce up and down in the chair with two hands on my 00:02:15.300 --> 00:02:21.920 shoulders, you know, you're seeing that. So Whitebeard is one of the two. I'll let him, he's both, 00:02:22.180 --> 00:02:27.880 honest to God, I was about to say, I'll let him decide which one he wants to be. And so he says in 00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:34.780 chat that he's both, which I'm actually okay with. And so, hey, the Church Digital Podcast brought to 00:02:34.780 --> 00:02:39.620 you by Riverside. We are broadcasting, doing the stream live in Discord, which is why we're able 00:02:39.620 --> 00:02:43.220 to interact with people in live. And then we're recording in the background. God bless the 00:02:43.220 --> 00:02:49.560 technology. And so, you know, Riverside just continues to roll out stuff week by week. It's 00:02:49.560 --> 00:02:53.900 unbelievable, this platform. So if you're not utilizing it, if Church, if you haven't looked at it 00:02:53.900 --> 00:03:02.180 yet, thechurch.digital slash Riverside, be able to connect, record high quality video, remote 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:09.980 interviews, shorts, upload sermons for AI short production. Oh my gosh, there's so many features 00:03:09.980 --> 00:03:16.500 in this thing. And so professional level software, check it out, thechurch.digital slash Riverside. 00:03:16.560 --> 00:03:23.800 Hey, Simon walks in, Simon Dirks from Germany. And so from Beta Church. 00:03:23.900 --> 00:03:31.900 As well as the, oh my gosh, Simon, I'm blanking on the name of your planting organization. I should 00:03:31.900 --> 00:03:37.680 know this. Cloud Kirsch. I'm probably mispronouncing Kirsch. Kirsch. How do you say church in Germany? 00:03:37.840 --> 00:03:42.780 Cloud Kirsch. That's right. So there you go. We're excited. Hey, I'll just say this. You know, 00:03:42.820 --> 00:03:51.040 we're right now, we're actually merging Cloud Kirsch into TCD's Discord. And so there's going to 00:03:51.040 --> 00:03:56.660 hopefully be an influx of Germans running around Discord, uh, hanging out with us and, and excited 00:03:56.660 --> 00:04:04.300 to see, you know, the church digital. We are going into the season of, um, uh, international. Like 00:04:04.300 --> 00:04:09.440 we're, we're talking with Simon. We're talking with, uh, Tope, Tope, you know, is doing some stuff in 00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:14.800 Nigeria. Um, there's, uh, and there's other conversations internationally. This was funny. 00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:20.740 I was actually for a completely, okay, Megan, you know me. It's like, Hey, Jeff, he's got like five, 00:04:20.820 --> 00:04:27.060 six businesses, whatever. And so, um, you know, today I started, uh, or I was sitting down with a 00:04:27.060 --> 00:04:31.000 guy, probably roll this out later, but at some point there's going to be another business we're 00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:35.640 going to launch that's selling a product that I'm not able to talk about right now. Um, but, 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:40.840 but he was like, so like, what international connections do you have? And I was like, 00:04:40.840 --> 00:04:44.560 and Simon, you're one of them. I'll just say that publicly. But I started rattling off like 00:04:44.560 --> 00:04:50.300 six, seven, eight, nine, 10 different countries that, and like, his eyes got really big. Cause 00:04:50.300 --> 00:04:54.320 I don't think he was expecting me to like, you know, and he's, he's like, you know, people I was 00:04:54.320 --> 00:04:58.500 like, Oh, I was, Oh yeah. Like, I, I mean, I'm, I'm not saying I know Simon like on speed dial, 00:04:58.500 --> 00:05:04.580 but if I'm like, Hey Simon, let's get on a call. Like he's going to do that. And, um, I'm not even 00:05:04.580 --> 00:05:08.800 sure the product will work in Germany, which then he's like, Oh, I've got to figure out to make 00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:11.700 sure this thing's international. It opened up this whole other can of war. And so it was awesome, 00:05:11.700 --> 00:05:17.620 but I love the idea of, of, you know, the idea of discipleship, digital discipleship, you know, 00:05:17.620 --> 00:05:22.220 and that's not a, that's not a product. That's a concept. And the fact that, you know, Simon's 00:05:22.220 --> 00:05:28.040 wrestling with this internationally and the Tope is doing what he's doing internationally. And, 00:05:28.080 --> 00:05:33.560 and, you know, even just today I was on with a call, um, with, with two separate organizations 00:05:33.560 --> 00:05:39.460 that are, that are looking at utilizing gaming internationally. And so it's, it's how people are 00:05:39.460 --> 00:05:45.040 really utilizing this digital tool to, to even get into third world areas and behind the iron 00:05:45.040 --> 00:05:51.460 curtains and things like that. Speaking of that, Inyi Chukwu walks in, who's also from, um, Nigeria, 00:05:51.460 --> 00:05:58.260 uh, Inyi Chukwu, correct me, Nigeria, I'm almost positive. And so, you know, I love the fact that the 00:05:58.260 --> 00:06:04.300 church digital is, is moving more into this international state. And so, Hey, that's enough 00:06:04.300 --> 00:06:13.140 of a commercial upfront. So we got episode 296, um, Megan Carter, um, who is, uh, is a hero and, 00:06:13.200 --> 00:06:20.200 and a villain both at the same time in my life, a hero because she dives into, uh, mental health 00:06:20.200 --> 00:06:24.440 and really has addressed that not just in digital ministry in the church overall, which is the heart 00:06:24.440 --> 00:06:28.240 of this podcast that I want to get into a little bit. She's a villain though, because for some 00:06:28.240 --> 00:06:34.560 reason she likes pirates more than ninjas. I knew that's where it was going. I, I, I, for the, 00:06:34.700 --> 00:06:38.760 you know what, Megan, what's interesting. So if you've listened to episode 295, we had, um, 00:06:39.120 --> 00:06:44.300 we had, uh, Stuart, we had Stunami on Stuart McPherson. Yes. Shut up white beard. Uh, and we 00:06:44.300 --> 00:06:50.260 also had, that's funny. And we also had, um, uh, uh, Peyton, Peyton, I keep wanting to say Peyton 00:06:50.260 --> 00:06:55.620 Manning, Peyton Jones, um, on, on the podcast, you know, church planter, extraordinaire training, 00:06:55.620 --> 00:07:00.900 training people in 72 countries digitally on, on how to plant churches. Like Peyton's doing some 00:07:00.900 --> 00:07:06.280 incredible stuff. Plantology author, the modern textbook for modern church planting. And, uh, 00:07:06.280 --> 00:07:11.160 and so Peyton's a big ninja guy. Like he's his nicknames, the church planting ninja. He's literally 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:18.000 got the tattoo like ninja clan on his arm that being the GI Joe lore that snake eyes and, and, uh, 00:07:18.000 --> 00:07:25.600 storm shadow have on their body. And so, you know, he's a ninja guy and, and Megan on the podcast was 00:07:25.600 --> 00:07:34.740 rude enough to say publicly with white beard that, um, that ninjas suck and that, uh, pirates are 00:07:34.740 --> 00:07:41.700 better. I'm not sure exactly said that, but I did say pirates all the way. Yeah. And, and I can take it 00:07:41.700 --> 00:07:47.400 to be honest. Well, and here's the deal like, and, and I'm okay that Megan has this opinion. You know, 00:07:47.400 --> 00:07:52.440 I'm feeling a bunch of negativity towards ninjas coming towards me with pirates and honest to God, 00:07:52.440 --> 00:07:56.220 I'm looking at the room, the people that were in the stream. And I'm like, whatever Megan decides, 00:07:56.220 --> 00:08:01.980 I'm going to say is going to be the decision. And then Megan's Megan says pirates. And I'm like, 00:08:01.980 --> 00:08:05.400 what the crap, Megan, you sold me out. Like, why are you doing this to me? I was really upset, 00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:12.460 but here's the truth, Megan. Like I have, I have asked, this is not an exaggeration in though it's 00:08:12.460 --> 00:08:16.540 not even, maybe it's been a week. Maybe it's been, I think it was less than actually did that 00:08:16.540 --> 00:08:21.180 interview Thursday. So it's been five days since we did that interview, had that conversation live 00:08:21.180 --> 00:08:30.900 in real time. I've asked 20 people ninjas versus pirates to the T not one person of the 20 00:08:30.900 --> 00:08:40.620 has said pirates. Like, I don't know what discord was smoking at that time. What a resident air was 00:08:40.620 --> 00:08:46.280 flow air molecules were floating around the digital chat room that everybody was inhaling to get them 00:08:46.280 --> 00:08:52.900 thinking that pirates were cool. But for whatever reason, everybody else has been like, why, why in 00:08:52.900 --> 00:08:58.120 the world would you want to be a pirate? So white beards got some influence over everybody. I don't get 00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:02.700 it. Megan, I will, I will shut up. I want your thoughts. I want your thoughts. 00:09:03.180 --> 00:09:09.160 No, I, um, yeah, pirates all the way. Cause I, well, I grew up with pirates, the Caribbean, 00:09:09.160 --> 00:09:18.920 um, Johnny Depp, like they're the first, like three movies were after the fourth one. It kind of 00:09:18.920 --> 00:09:24.900 went off the rails a little bit, but, um, I can, I think I can watch the first one without any 00:09:24.900 --> 00:09:30.760 sound and follow through. So you told me, I mean, I'm gonna call you out publicly. 00:09:31.180 --> 00:09:35.600 Yeah. You've got a tattoo of, uh, referencing, uh, Captain Jack. 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:42.280 Yep. I have a sparrow on my shoulder, like kind of the back. Um, some people are like, Oh, it's the 00:09:42.280 --> 00:09:48.880 sparrow. Like Jesus doesn't, you know, he always feeds the sparrows. And I'm like, yeah, it could mean 00:09:48.880 --> 00:09:54.960 that. Um, but no, it was definitely for that. Uh, I've got those and some other Disney ones and 00:09:54.960 --> 00:10:02.440 other favorite movies shows, but yeah. So it's, it's a sparrow. Not, not that God cares for you. 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:08.260 Uh, it's not the sparrow. I mean, he does, but that is not what it was. No, that was not the 00:10:08.260 --> 00:10:16.080 intention. It's literally Captain Jack. Unbelievable. Yep. Yep. Well, Whitebeard is furiously typing 00:10:16.080 --> 00:10:23.360 away at his keyboard with some, uh, uh, response angry that I'm calling out his, uh, his pirate 00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:29.420 reference. I think he started. Yes. I said that you're fact checking me. I said the Holy Spirit's a 00:10:29.420 --> 00:10:35.160 dove, not a sparrow. You don't need to correct that. Uh, but it is bird related. Okay. Um, 00:10:35.280 --> 00:10:41.340 geez, uh, theologian and fact check at the same time, uh, Whitebeard's all over me. He, he owns 00:10:41.340 --> 00:10:48.400 it. Okay. Um, well, Hey, Megan's on here. We're in episode, we're in season seven, uh, the season 00:10:48.400 --> 00:10:52.760 not to be named because every name I come up with, I didn't like, but really what I'm featuring 00:10:52.760 --> 00:10:58.460 here with season seven are a lot of the facilitators for the learning communities that the church 00:10:58.460 --> 00:11:02.760 digital is putting on. And if you stuck around this long to talk about mental health in the church, 00:11:02.760 --> 00:11:08.740 good for you. Like you, you survived, uh, 15 minutes of random garbage talking about sparrows 00:11:08.740 --> 00:11:13.720 and tattoos and pirates and ninjas and all sorts of good stuff. But with, uh, with the learning 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:17.600 communities and you're probably acknowledging, Hey, that guy, Jeff does need mental health after, 00:11:17.600 --> 00:11:22.940 uh, this, uh, some attention after this conversation. But, um, through the church digital, 00:11:22.940 --> 00:11:29.240 we're doing five different learning communities, um, here this summer coming up. And so we're doing 00:11:29.240 --> 00:11:34.420 season seven pirates be pirates. No, um, white, white beards really trying hard. At some point, 00:11:34.420 --> 00:11:38.020 I got to like, you know, ignore that, but no, I'm kidding, man. You're awesome. I like, I love it. 00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:42.580 I love the engagement in this stuff, but we're, we're doing five different learning communities. 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:50.160 And so information is at the church.digital slash LC for learning community, the church.digital letter L 00:11:50.160 --> 00:11:57.300 letter C. And so you can pull up more information. Uh, Andy Mage is doing one on, um, asynchronous 00:11:57.300 --> 00:12:02.940 communities, like how to do discord or slack, or even how to elevate your, your Facebook group to 00:12:02.940 --> 00:12:07.560 another level, really digging into the power of digital communities, asynchronous communities. 00:12:08.160 --> 00:12:14.280 Uh, Megan, of course is doing mental health. Uh, we've got, I'm doing one on hybrid micro churches 00:12:14.280 --> 00:12:19.720 and physical churches, launching micro churches and how to grow that ministry out of your online. 00:12:20.380 --> 00:12:26.920 Um, there's, uh, who am I missing? Uh, Barbara is doing one on digital, uh, community and digital 00:12:26.920 --> 00:12:31.580 communications. And then Stuart Stunami is doing, thank you, white beard. Stunami. I'm telling you, 00:12:31.600 --> 00:12:36.920 fact checker, dude stays on me. You haven't said Stunami yet, Jeff. Uh, Stunami is coming up, 00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:45.140 uh, also doing one on, um, virtual reality church and how your churches can launch ministries in 00:12:45.140 --> 00:12:48.460 virtual reality, whether it's a full church, whether it's groups or, or whatever it looks 00:12:48.460 --> 00:12:53.960 like. And so, man, these are five opportunities for churches like yours to experiment, uh, this 00:12:53.960 --> 00:13:00.000 summer and launch something this summer. And so really are looking forward to that. And so we've 00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:04.740 had a number of them on, I think Megan is one of the last in the season. And then I'm doing mental 00:13:04.740 --> 00:13:09.520 health last week. And so check the church digital, the website and the podcast and YouTube to, 00:13:09.600 --> 00:13:15.740 to find past episodes. But Megan, um, you know, let's, let's, let's dive in here to, to mental 00:13:15.740 --> 00:13:19.820 health. Cause I would love to maybe tease some of what you're doing, maybe get some, get some 00:13:19.820 --> 00:13:25.360 exposure and really, really try to elevate. Um, you know, when we say mental health, it's 00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:30.220 interesting. Mental health means so many different things, uh, to so many different people. Uh, 00:13:30.220 --> 00:13:33.440 I almost want that to almost be like the first question, like, as we're drilling in, 00:13:33.440 --> 00:13:39.840 what exactly does mental health mean to you? What are, what are we addressing when we say 00:13:39.840 --> 00:13:45.380 mental health? I mean, mental health is a huge part of our lives. It's always been there. Um, 00:13:45.380 --> 00:13:51.260 it's one of the things that people start, have started talking about more. So if people are 00:13:51.260 --> 00:13:56.740 asking the question, like, why is so much about like anxiety, depression, all these things out so much 00:13:56.740 --> 00:14:01.320 more in public and I'm like, well, it's always been there. It's just, you're making it more 00:14:01.320 --> 00:14:06.480 visible. More people are learning about it. And the more we learn about it, the more we realize 00:14:06.480 --> 00:14:11.180 that there might've been things that we didn't realize were things that we maybe struggled with. 00:14:11.720 --> 00:14:15.600 Um, like me, I grew up, I didn't realize that some of the things I struggled with was anxiety. 00:14:15.900 --> 00:14:23.300 And so bringing that to light and in a church, um, format is amazing because we can hit on so many 00:14:23.300 --> 00:14:29.300 more levels than just like psychologically. Um, so we look at the person as a whole person, 00:14:29.300 --> 00:14:34.060 not just one aspect. And so that's the biggest thing is I love to be able to see, 00:14:34.440 --> 00:14:39.260 like, if I sit across from somebody, um, I'd talk to them about, you know, their spiritual health. 00:14:39.500 --> 00:14:43.720 Obviously I work at a church, I'm a pastor. That's part of what I do, but talking about their 00:14:43.720 --> 00:14:48.460 spiritual health, talk about their mental health. Cause I understand some of the, um, things that go 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:52.880 behind that. Uh, we talk about emotional health, which is separate from your mental health. So 00:14:52.880 --> 00:14:59.620 that's a whole nother piece, um, emotional, and then you have your relational. Um, so that's just 00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:06.180 relationships with other people. And let's see, physical, spiritual, mental, emotional. I am missing 00:15:06.180 --> 00:15:15.240 one and I just lost it. Of course I did. Right. Um, but there are five. And so that is looking at a 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:23.060 whole person rather than just one specific area is so important. And I think that encompasses, 00:15:23.060 --> 00:15:28.560 like we can call it mental health, but it encompasses all of those things, um, that we can 00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:32.900 really focus on and, and help people because they're hurting in different areas and they, 00:15:33.060 --> 00:15:38.340 they're searching for something. Um, and if we can help them and for me, if I can help them with a 00:15:38.340 --> 00:15:44.000 little bit of like biblical knowledge, but then also like the knowledge of how the brain is working 00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:49.880 and how our, our bodies just work with this and combine it together, it can do really amazing 00:15:49.880 --> 00:15:57.760 things. Okay. So you're talking about like spiritual aspects, which, you know, you're a, you are, 00:15:57.760 --> 00:16:02.720 you are a pastor with, with, um, with, uh, the, the church, church united or church united, 00:16:02.780 --> 00:16:09.240 I'm sorry, church anywhere. Yeah. Um, and so like, you've got pastoral experience that gives you 00:16:09.240 --> 00:16:16.380 the ability to speak to that, that aspect. What, how do you speak to the, the, like, I mean, 00:16:16.380 --> 00:16:20.600 you're talking about brain science at some level here. Like, um, where, where, where did you, 00:16:20.940 --> 00:16:25.180 where did you learn this? Like what, where, where are you gaining some of this experience and knowledge? 00:16:26.120 --> 00:16:30.580 Yeah. Some of it comes from personal experience. Um, I've went to counseling myself, 00:16:30.580 --> 00:16:36.000 so I was able to work through some of my own anxieties, depression. And so some of that just 00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:43.440 from experience of life. The other is, um, I went to, with, uh, light university, which is connected 00:16:43.440 --> 00:16:49.080 to the AACC American association of Christian counselors. And they have programs that are set 00:16:49.080 --> 00:16:56.180 up for people that can go through, um, really for like lay leaders, um, or pastors that can go through, 00:16:56.180 --> 00:17:02.480 gain knowledge to be able to help people fully and, and wholly. Um, and not just, you know, 00:17:03.580 --> 00:17:07.940 I love scripture, but not just throw scripture at them because a lot of people, that's not what they 00:17:07.940 --> 00:17:13.740 need right at the beginning. They need to be able to have this whole experience and then come in with 00:17:13.740 --> 00:17:17.940 the scripture and then Jesus can meet them right where they're at. So there's, there's a balance of 00:17:17.940 --> 00:17:22.580 those things, but going through that, um, I have a board, board certification of mental health 00:17:22.580 --> 00:17:27.820 coaching. And then I just finished my biblical counseling, uh, program not long ago, which was 00:17:27.820 --> 00:17:33.380 really long, but I made it through and survived. And so now getting ready to send in for my board 00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:38.620 certification as a pastoral counselor. So just, it's really cool to be able to partner alongside 00:17:38.620 --> 00:17:43.540 and have a church that, that wants to do that, um, whether it's in person or online. 00:17:43.920 --> 00:17:48.120 So does that make you a doctor? Does that make you a counselor? Does that make you, 00:17:49.260 --> 00:17:53.620 what does that give you coming away with this? So it would, uh, once I get the board certification, 00:17:53.620 --> 00:17:59.980 I'll be a pastoral counselor. Um, I'm not a therapist. I can't prescribe anything. I help 00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:06.820 and guide people along their path with giving them some practical tips, resources, practices to put in 00:18:06.820 --> 00:18:13.100 their life. Kind of like we do with discipleship. Um, it's very similar. And so being able to do that 00:18:13.100 --> 00:18:18.020 and help guide them. And then it's usually for a shorter time rather than like, if someone's going to see 00:18:18.020 --> 00:18:22.340 a therapist, it would be very different, but so there are limitations and you have to know those 00:18:22.340 --> 00:18:26.840 limitations and know when it's above your pay grade and when it's time to refer to someone else. 00:18:27.120 --> 00:18:28.460 So that's a big piece of it too. 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.560 Yeah. Love it. By the way, the chat's opening up and we've got some more people in the room. 00:18:32.660 --> 00:18:37.760 Pastor D joining us from California. I, Pastor D, I think I emailed you just, just this morning. 00:18:37.820 --> 00:18:43.920 Hope I got it to you. Andy, uh, was in, um, a flat cap was kind of popping in and out, uh, a little bit 00:18:43.920 --> 00:18:48.580 as well. And so, you know, love seeing some more people, yo chat Andy saying, Hey, appreciate that, 00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:52.220 man. Uh, I haven't, I haven't, I haven't talked to Andy. You know, I've talked to Andy pretty much 00:18:52.220 --> 00:18:56.840 like every day. I feel like, and that's, that's the first conversation that we've had today. I miss 00:18:56.840 --> 00:19:06.260 you, man. That's good stuff. Um, so you have a, um, you mentioned before, Hey, you know what, 00:19:06.320 --> 00:19:10.400 really, when you're talking to somebody, you don't want to like, you know, take scripture right off the 00:19:10.400 --> 00:19:14.060 bat, beat him over the head. That's not, that's not helpful. Like, okay. You probably didn't say 00:19:14.060 --> 00:19:19.000 beat him over the head, but that was the, that was the visual that I, I, I concocted it in my head 00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:24.700 when I heard it. I've seen it happen. Yeah, no, I mean, we all have at some level. And, and, and to 00:19:24.700 --> 00:19:28.700 be honest, I've been guilty of it myself, you know, at some point, you know, just it's, it's an unhealthy, 00:19:29.160 --> 00:19:36.520 it's an unhealthy approach, but I mean, honestly, that's how we were taught 10, 20 years ago, 00:19:36.520 --> 00:19:42.180 you know? Um, I mean, I can remember, Hey, like I've got a lot of issues in my life and I can 00:19:42.180 --> 00:19:46.980 remember a pastor coming up to me when I was in my twenties. Well, you know, have you prayed about 00:19:46.980 --> 00:19:51.180 it? Have you, have you read scripture? Like, okay. You know, I mean, there's, there's, there's 00:19:51.180 --> 00:19:59.180 Yeah. I mean, 10, 20 years ago that, that didn't work that way. Um, you know, even today, I'll be 00:19:59.180 --> 00:20:05.940 honest, like, um, I walk around with a cane. I have like, I mean, literally the, the brain synapses 00:20:05.940 --> 00:20:13.820 between my brain and my, my legs don't work. And so like, it's documented the reduced rate of how it 00:20:13.820 --> 00:20:19.480 goes through it. So it's like dropped data packets back and forth, which is why I really struggle to 00:20:19.480 --> 00:20:26.500 walk. And, and I've had people, well, have you prayed about your situation? Um, yes, yes, I have. 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:31.840 And, and God has said, it's better to be this way. So, you know, don't be a day hole. Um, for, 00:20:31.980 --> 00:20:35.160 I don't think anybody's listening that would have done that, but if you were, I apologize for calling 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:43.260 you an a-hole at the moment. Um, I would, I'd love some insight from you here. How should we handle 00:20:43.260 --> 00:20:49.740 those situations? How should we talk with people as ministers, as pastors, even as we're training our 00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:55.640 volunteers, how do we respond to difficult situations? When do we apply scripture first? 00:20:55.640 --> 00:20:59.160 And when do we listen more? Like what, what's a good rule of thumb? 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:03.580 I would say above everything else, lead with love. I mean, that's what Jesus did. If we're going to 00:21:03.580 --> 00:21:09.220 live our life like Jesus, lead with love. The other things, um, no matter what the situation is, 00:21:09.680 --> 00:21:14.240 they can be figured out or worked out later, but leading with love first. And the thing you have 00:21:14.240 --> 00:21:21.820 to remember is something I've learned when, um, I've done some, um, studying on trauma, which some of us 00:21:21.820 --> 00:21:27.120 might have a little bit of small T trauma from those responses we've gotten before in church, but 00:21:27.120 --> 00:21:35.160 is that everybody's trauma is going to be different. Somebody can experience, or two people can experience the 00:21:35.160 --> 00:21:42.920 exact same moment and situation. And one person can perceive it as a trauma. And one person can be like, 00:21:42.920 --> 00:21:49.500 no, that's normal. And it doesn't affect them. And so realizing that whatever people are going through, 00:21:49.500 --> 00:21:57.060 that it's real and like, it's valid to them. There may be things like within, with a therapist or 00:21:57.060 --> 00:22:01.720 professional counselor, like they need to walk through and there, there isn't, you know, some things 00:22:01.720 --> 00:22:05.180 they got to walk through to, to find that the reality may be a little different than they're 00:22:05.180 --> 00:22:10.280 perceiving it. But at that moment, they perceive it that way. So if you can start with just leading 00:22:10.280 --> 00:22:16.380 with love and then, and then talking to them like a real human being, like not just running by, like 00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:22.080 we get so busy nowadays, like you see people on the street and you're like, Hey, how are you doing? 00:22:22.120 --> 00:22:27.480 And like, before they even answer, you're gone. Like you've already passed. And we don't stop to like 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:32.600 be present with that person. And I think that's the biggest thing, like whether you're doing ministry 00:22:32.600 --> 00:22:38.160 in person or online is if there is someone hurting and you can see that they're needing that, like 00:22:38.160 --> 00:22:43.480 stopping and being present with that person, however you can, and whether that's just chatting back and 00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:49.160 forth, um, or seeing them face to face, but being able to really be present with them and hear what 00:22:49.160 --> 00:22:55.220 they're saying and sometimes what they're not saying. So it takes a lot of skills. Um, but even just like 00:22:55.220 --> 00:23:00.760 going in it with a little bit of empathy, you can make a big difference in that person's life. And then 00:23:00.760 --> 00:23:05.980 depending on the situation. And once you built some trust, you can really start speaking into their 00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:10.900 life with some truth that may be a little harder or some scripture that can go alongside to help that 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:15.860 person. But you have to know that person a little bit to really dive into that. Yeah. We, we talk a lot 00:23:15.860 --> 00:23:23.020 about building trust and earning trust, you know, especially in digital ministry, uh, because it's 00:23:23.020 --> 00:23:30.780 very easy to get on a soapbox digitally and, and chase off anybody right off the bat. I would love to 00:23:30.780 --> 00:23:35.320 ask you, cause you used, you used a couple of interesting words. Empathy was one of them. Um, 00:23:35.320 --> 00:23:42.700 and presence was the other, like how do you, and you're, you're a former digital pastor and you've, 00:23:42.760 --> 00:23:50.960 you've worked a lot with digital ministry, um, even still. So how do you be present digitally? How do 00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:58.560 you build empathy with someone digitally? You have to get to know people. Um, you can't just post content 00:23:58.560 --> 00:24:06.740 and leave it and never look at comments that are in there. Um, interact with people, find out a little 00:24:06.740 --> 00:24:12.820 bit about them, not in a creepy way because it can get creepy really fast. Right. Um, but if you can 00:24:12.820 --> 00:24:18.700 create a community and even if it's just a one-on-one or you have a group of people that you're constantly 00:24:18.700 --> 00:24:24.980 in communication with, that's a, a great starting point. And I think this is one thing, um, Jeff, 00:24:24.980 --> 00:24:31.220 you know, it is Tyler, when he became the digital pastor, he was challenged to know a hundred people 00:24:31.220 --> 00:24:37.120 online and he has passed that down to every single staff member. And so anybody that works with digital 00:24:37.120 --> 00:24:43.200 stuff, it's no a hundred people, like actually know them. Um, how can you get to know them? And so 00:24:43.200 --> 00:24:49.680 that's been an amazing thing because through some of the digital content I've done, I've been able to 00:24:49.680 --> 00:24:54.320 pray with people and they've opened up a lot more than I ever thought they would like through 00:24:54.320 --> 00:25:00.500 messaging and shared things with me. And then you don't always see this response, but I found like 00:25:00.500 --> 00:25:05.240 months later they came back and they're like, you prayed for me. And then this was the response of 00:25:05.240 --> 00:25:10.520 your prayer. And I'm like, praise God. Like, and you kind of almost forgot because you're trying to 00:25:10.520 --> 00:25:16.020 connect with so many different people, but creating that. And that goes right back to that trust and 00:25:16.020 --> 00:25:22.440 just stepping, you know, the empathy piece is really stepping into their shoes. So if you hear somebody's 00:25:22.440 --> 00:25:27.300 story and they're talking about things like step in, put yourself in their perspective, like how would 00:25:27.300 --> 00:25:32.240 you feel in that situation? How would you handle it? And then that gives you a little bit of knowledge 00:25:32.240 --> 00:25:38.820 of like how to talk to them and perceive through that. Yeah. Um, and that's so good. And so, you know, 00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:44.920 Simon, uh, actually says in chat here, uh, and this is challenging when, when followers are scaling, 00:25:44.920 --> 00:25:50.640 you know, and that's, that's an interesting challenge of digital, the idea of, Hey, I got to know a hundred 00:25:50.640 --> 00:25:57.140 people. Um, now what's what I love about what Tyler did and, and, you know, I, I, I almost had a front 00:25:57.140 --> 00:26:02.460 row seat because, you know, Tyler and I communicate regularly and I saw this when he was digital pastor and 00:26:02.460 --> 00:26:07.420 engagement and, and, you know, all the way through like his process now as his lead pastor and holding that 00:26:07.420 --> 00:26:14.660 standard towards others. I think that's really how it scales. Simon is applying that policy 00:26:14.660 --> 00:26:19.900 to others. Like it's one thing to expect the digital pastor to know a hundred people 00:26:19.900 --> 00:26:30.700 digitally. It's another to say, Hey, volunteer, no 50, no 75, no 25, like, like build that relational 00:26:30.700 --> 00:26:36.600 evangelism, multiplying. Exactly. Multiplying DNA from the beginning. That's actually why I love Simon 00:26:36.600 --> 00:26:42.200 says multiplying from the beginning. That's why I love working with planters because planters it's new 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:47.940 culture. You can come in and you can say whatever you want and people will, will buy into it or they 00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:54.320 won't, but they buy in, they choose in. It's much easier to have no culture and create it than it is to 00:26:54.320 --> 00:27:00.500 change the established culture. That's much harder. Now churches like first capital have had 00:27:00.500 --> 00:27:06.800 huge success changing culture because really they just modernized in some areas, but the heart 00:27:06.800 --> 00:27:13.640 of, of service and the heart of multiplying was really built into the DNA for decades. And so Tyler 00:27:13.640 --> 00:27:19.680 coming on was able to make shifts easily. Like I just, I've had that conversation enough to know. 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:25.580 You know, it's interesting here. Pastor D talks about how she's been with the AACC for years. 00:27:26.620 --> 00:27:30.380 I, you know, I didn't realize that, uh, Pastor D. And so that, that, that's good to know. 00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:36.440 Um, what role like with the, is there, is there anything that AACC does beyond, like, 00:27:36.460 --> 00:27:40.800 I know you're doing a very intensive training. Is there lighter trainings? Is there other things 00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:43.220 that they're, they do as well? What is, what are, what are they offer? 00:27:43.880 --> 00:27:47.840 Yeah. I mean, they have all kinds of trainings. They have like one-off trainings you can even do 00:27:47.840 --> 00:27:52.680 if you don't want to go do something like I did. Um, or honestly the mental health coaching, 00:27:52.680 --> 00:27:59.480 it's 42 hours, which is sounds like a lot, but it's just physically 42 hours. Cause each lesson 00:27:59.480 --> 00:28:04.000 is an hour long and you have a quiz. Um, that's how you go through it, but that's a great resource. 00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:10.380 It covers so much that it is designed like specifically to help those that are in churches 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:17.960 or ministries that want to put this into place. Um, it's a little more intensive, but it, it is so worth 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:23.460 it if you have the ability to do that for sure. But they also have a whole bunch of resources that you 00:28:23.460 --> 00:28:28.560 can do just, um, in, in specific areas that you wouldn't want to learn more about too. 00:28:28.840 --> 00:28:34.200 So you're offering a learning community, um, through, through the church digital coming up, 00:28:34.260 --> 00:28:39.300 excited about that. It was interesting. We were, we were in a, in a session, just, you know, we were 00:28:39.300 --> 00:28:43.680 in a meeting talking about, you know, some of the learning communities that were coming up. And to be 00:28:43.680 --> 00:28:49.840 honest, mental health, wasn't a topic that was on my mind. And, um, and somebody said, 00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:52.560 what about mental health? And I was like, oh crap, we got to do that. We have to do that. 00:28:52.580 --> 00:28:58.240 We have to do that. Why did I not think of that? Um, like this is a, you know, and especially in 00:28:58.240 --> 00:29:03.720 recent months, as I've been going through some, some health issues and some trauma issues and 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:08.420 reevaluating my own life and in my own, my own life makes it sound like it's much more drastic than 00:29:08.420 --> 00:29:14.500 it is, but, uh, my, my ministry and, and, uh, in different, different aspects of it, like I was 00:29:14.500 --> 00:29:18.900 passionate about mental health, but I don't really think I understood it. I don't know that I 00:29:18.900 --> 00:29:26.140 understand it now totally, but I definitely feel the pain points of it because I'm going through this. 00:29:26.140 --> 00:29:32.680 You know, it's interesting. Um, Andy, uh, Andy, you know, put in chat, um, you know, talking about, 00:29:32.760 --> 00:29:36.920 you know, we should pray more. Uh, he says, that's what I was told when I had my first panic 00:29:36.920 --> 00:29:41.180 attack as a pastor about 10 years ago. Well, let's pray about that. Your faith isn't large 00:29:41.180 --> 00:29:45.640 enough. Had three different people. He says, tell me that, that, oh, you need to pray more. 00:29:45.640 --> 00:29:52.220 It frustrates me so much. Um, yeah. And, and, and, and to be honest, like, um, I feel that on a 00:29:52.220 --> 00:29:58.460 regular basis. Um, you know, it's interesting. I told Andy, um, I told Andy, yeah, Andy was probably 00:29:58.460 --> 00:30:01.400 one of the first people I told this to. I don't think I've said this in the podcast. Like, I mean, 00:30:01.840 --> 00:30:06.660 at some level I, I, I, I am acknowledging that I, Jeff Reed, I'm suffering from depression. 00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:11.440 Um, now it's interesting. I don't know if I'm depressed because of situations in my life. 00:30:11.860 --> 00:30:18.280 I don't know if I'm depressed because of situations of my health or I'm depressed because it's a side 00:30:18.280 --> 00:30:23.300 effect of all the medicine that I'm on because of my health. Um, like if you, if you really sat down 00:30:23.300 --> 00:30:27.600 and looked at it, there's a number of reasons. Now, you know, I, I tell people I'm depressed 00:30:27.600 --> 00:30:32.580 or all of the above pastor. Do I agree? Um, you know, I say I'm depressed and, and it's like, 00:30:32.580 --> 00:30:36.720 you know, I almost, I want to put a disclaimer right off the top. I'm not going to take my life. 00:30:36.980 --> 00:30:42.700 I am not a risk to myself or anyone else around me. And, and, and, and truth is like the day that 00:30:42.700 --> 00:30:48.000 I told, uh, TCD, the church digital leadership, uh, I was depressed and I was feeling symptoms of 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:55.860 depression. Like just even admitting that in a public environment, me, 70% of what I was feeling 00:30:55.860 --> 00:31:03.020 depression, 70% of the weight was off my chest. Like just acknowledging the stigma, not carrying it, 00:31:03.260 --> 00:31:10.940 not hiding it anymore and, and, and making the people around me aware so that they could be, um, 00:31:12.120 --> 00:31:19.500 sensitive, stepping in, helping, um, holding me accountable, um, you know, whatever it is. 00:31:19.500 --> 00:31:23.120 And what I loved about, you know, Andy and the rest of the church digital leadership, 00:31:23.460 --> 00:31:28.860 none of them said to me, oh, well, let's, um, you know, uh, you need to pray more about it. 00:31:28.940 --> 00:31:34.200 None of them quoted scripture at me. Now it actually put a play when okay for scripture. Um, 00:31:34.320 --> 00:31:44.300 but it was a much more, I'm using this word gently. It was a much more real tangible thing. Um, 00:31:46.300 --> 00:31:55.560 prayer plays a part in this, but the person I think has to trust you to the place where you get to the 00:31:55.560 --> 00:32:00.460 prayer. You, you have, I think culture is changing a little bit. Maybe this is a soapbox. I don't 00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:07.740 need to get on. Um, but I think there's a level of maybe years ago you could pray without earning the 00:32:07.740 --> 00:32:17.160 trust. Um, but in 2024, there's so little trust that if you're praying without the trust, that person 00:32:17.160 --> 00:32:24.080 doesn't automatically trust the prayer. They don't trust God. It's, it's the majority of people at this 00:32:24.080 --> 00:32:30.400 point in America do not have a relationship or even awareness of God. And so you taking time to pray to 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:36.300 an, uh, an unnamed God that they don't know or recognize is the equivalent of someone praying to 00:32:36.300 --> 00:32:43.780 Baal or, you know, I don't know, some random God or, you know, Hercules, whatever. Like it, it doesn't, 00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:51.840 it doesn't carry weight like, like it did 10, 20, 30 years ago. And so the relationship aspect 00:32:51.840 --> 00:33:00.280 is very, um, poignant today. And I think that plays such an important role 00:33:00.280 --> 00:33:06.060 digitally as well as within, in the physical church. Um, Whitebeard brings up a very important 00:33:06.060 --> 00:33:11.900 question that I want to come back to. I'm okay with that. Um, I will, we'll, we'll end the show 00:33:11.900 --> 00:33:17.160 with that. Thank you. Thank you, Whitebeard. He's, he's so good, man. Um, talk to me specifically, 00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:23.280 you're doing this learning community. Who should, who should, who should come to this? Why should they 00:33:23.280 --> 00:33:29.500 go? What are you, what are you covering? Like give us a rundown here of the type of churches that 00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:34.460 would benefit, why they would benefit from, um, doing a eight week learning community with you 00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:42.120 on a mental health ministry? Yeah. Um, people that should is people who care about people. Um, 00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:48.860 that's a wide net, right? But it's true. Um, if you, one of our core values here at the church, 00:33:48.860 --> 00:33:54.400 and I think that's why we push so much into so many different areas is we deeply care about people. 00:33:54.700 --> 00:34:01.540 And if you do deeply care about people, this is a huge piece of people's life. Um, we, we see a world 00:34:01.540 --> 00:34:08.400 that is hurting in so many different ways. Uh, so many people are even like just desensitized to so 00:34:08.400 --> 00:34:14.960 much. That's a whole other conversation, but there's so many pieces and, and we see that online. Um, you 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:20.120 mentioned how things have shifted. Like we can't just pray for people like we used to. It's not the 00:34:20.120 --> 00:34:25.900 same. It doesn't hold the same value. That's kind of the same way with the church itself. Um, we have 00:34:25.900 --> 00:34:32.500 had, we have less people that are coming in to the church to find help. They're going online. 00:34:32.940 --> 00:34:37.960 They're, they're going on their social media. They're shouting it from the rooftops, trying to 00:34:37.960 --> 00:34:42.820 figure out what to do. And they get all kinds of responses. Cause if you look hard enough, you can 00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:49.120 find an answer for whatever you're looking for. Right. And so it's, I think leads a lot of people 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:56.240 astray. It leads them down different paths and that can make it really difficult. So a big piece of 00:34:56.240 --> 00:35:02.840 what I'm putting together is just how do we create a mental health ministry? So this could be an in-person 00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:08.340 ministry. It could be an online ministry. It could be with a group. It could be individually. There's 00:35:08.340 --> 00:35:14.820 so many different ways because our mental health is not cookie cutter. We can't just like stamp it and 00:35:14.820 --> 00:35:19.380 move it along. Cause it doesn't work that way. We're all different and we're all unique in individuals. 00:35:19.800 --> 00:35:24.720 And so you've, you've got to really work with that and, and what your community that you have around 00:35:24.720 --> 00:35:29.400 you needs. And so a big piece is we're going to talk about what mental health is a little more in 00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:35.020 depth, um, why that's important to the church. We're gonna talk about discovering your community 00:35:35.020 --> 00:35:41.820 needs. So whatever community is around you, whatever your network of influences, uh, we want you to find 00:35:41.820 --> 00:35:46.100 out what are their, what are they searching for? What are their, you know, felt needs? What are things 00:35:46.100 --> 00:35:51.620 that they're struggling with and how can you kind of step into that? You may not be able to step all the 00:35:51.620 --> 00:35:58.500 way in because some of them most likely will need professional, um, help. And that's where building 00:35:58.500 --> 00:36:04.640 a reference, like a referral network, um, finding people that, you know, that you can trust that you 00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:10.300 can help build that is going to be so important. It's something we've worked here to do because there's 00:36:10.300 --> 00:36:14.920 a lot of people I've met with like one time and I've sat down and I, they start talking and I'm like, 00:36:14.980 --> 00:36:22.200 I want to help you so bad, but this is above what I can do. And so I want to help you find 00:36:22.200 --> 00:36:28.980 the healing in your journey. And so how can I do that? So creating that, um, also talking about 00:36:28.980 --> 00:36:35.160 huge pieces, those who do mental health ministry or any kind of care ministry, talking about burnout, 00:36:35.160 --> 00:36:41.840 um, that's real compassion fatigue. That could be a whole podcast in itself. It's real. Um, 00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:47.880 it's so, it's so hard if you get to that point, but there's no, it's not like the end all, like 00:36:47.880 --> 00:36:53.000 you can come back from it definitely. And just how to, how to work through those. And then even like 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:57.920 creating your own Sabbath, making sure that you're taking care of yourself as you're taking care of 00:36:57.920 --> 00:37:03.080 other people. It's that whole, like the airbags and the airplane, like put your mask on first before 00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:07.720 you help other people. It's the same thing in, in any kind of ministry, but especially if you're 00:37:07.720 --> 00:37:13.220 dealing with some, some really deep and sometimes dark things, um, with dealing with mental health. 00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:18.720 And we'll talk about balancing that spiritual side and the mental health side. How do we do that? 00:37:19.120 --> 00:37:24.220 And then, um, hopefully by the end, launching a minute, a ministry for mental health and, 00:37:24.220 --> 00:37:29.240 and what that looks like for whoever is part of it, it's going to look different for each one. And I'm 00:37:29.240 --> 00:37:33.300 really excited to see kind of the different ministries that come out of it. And it'd be 00:37:33.300 --> 00:37:38.880 different than what I do. Um, but just be able to really launch some things to just deeply care for 00:37:38.880 --> 00:37:44.540 people and help them along the way. Yeah. I love it. Um, you know, it's interesting. The idea of, 00:37:44.620 --> 00:37:52.480 of a ministry of, of, of mental health is, are there, are there churches that are doing that? Is this a, 00:37:52.480 --> 00:37:58.840 is this a trend like are the, are the cutting edge or is this, is this a brand new concept that you're 00:37:58.840 --> 00:38:04.520 exploring and bringing into the church digital? I think there are some churches. Um, I think there's 00:38:04.520 --> 00:38:10.400 probably a lot of churches that are caring for people in one aspect. Um, when we hit that as a 00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:14.740 whole person, like we're created whole with all these different aspects, I don't know how many are. 00:38:15.120 --> 00:38:19.820 We've tried to research and find some, and it's, there are some who have like a counseling center 00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:24.500 connected to their church. Um, it's actually something we're working towards, um, which would 00:38:24.500 --> 00:38:31.080 be amazing and just kind of trying to think ahead of the game, but it is something that is so needed. 00:38:31.080 --> 00:38:37.760 And there's so many people that whether you're an online church or people come into your church, 00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:42.420 so many people that are sitting in a part of your church that you probably don't even realize 00:38:42.420 --> 00:38:47.660 are in need of that. Um, I stand at the door and greet people as they walk in every Sunday. 00:38:47.660 --> 00:38:51.180 And there's some people that I've talked to and they come in with a big smile and they're like, 00:38:51.180 --> 00:38:56.020 everything's great. And I'm like, no, it's not like, I know it's not. Um, I'm not going to call 00:38:56.020 --> 00:39:00.440 them out right there. Cause that would be, um, unethical, but we can have those conversations. 00:39:00.860 --> 00:39:06.940 And when you're able to open that up and really break that stigma of saying like, yes, you're like, 00:39:06.940 --> 00:39:11.980 you can be a Christ follower and deal with mental health issues. And that's, I mean, 00:39:11.980 --> 00:39:17.760 that's my story. Like I grew up like thinking, oh, I can't be a good Christian if I'm struggling 00:39:17.760 --> 00:39:22.560 with, you know, mental health, if I'm struggling with anxiety and depression. And I was, as I was 00:39:22.560 --> 00:39:27.280 growing up and then again, it got the, just pray about it. And so for me, when I went to counseling, 00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:33.080 I went to a Christian counselor and he did not start with scripture. And I think if he would have, 00:39:33.120 --> 00:39:36.320 for me, it would have been a big turnoff because that's what I only got. 00:39:36.320 --> 00:39:43.280 And so that was a big, um, change. And that's what really my passion comes from it is I want 00:39:43.280 --> 00:39:48.620 to be an advocate for those people who have struggled with it and they have felt like something 00:39:48.620 --> 00:39:53.500 is wrong with them or something is wrong in general. And knowing that that's not something 00:39:53.500 --> 00:39:59.760 to just be fixed. Um, like mental health is not just something that gets fixed. Um, you find ways 00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:04.820 to manage it. And, you know, we talked about praying like, yeah, I could pray and God's big 00:40:04.820 --> 00:40:10.240 enough. He could definitely like take it away. I'd be amazing. Um, but he hasn't yet. So I have 00:40:10.240 --> 00:40:15.340 to find ways to manage it. And some days are better than others, but I can manage that around. And so 00:40:15.340 --> 00:40:21.420 as much as I can help other people and partner alongside them, and obviously I can't do it by 00:40:21.420 --> 00:40:26.980 myself. So being able to help train other people is so important. It's that multiplication piece, 00:40:27.060 --> 00:40:32.460 right? That we train others and continue to grow, um, that way that we can just reach so many more 00:40:32.460 --> 00:40:41.780 people for the kingdom. How much of this is triage? You know, I've, I've heard that described where, 00:40:41.980 --> 00:40:46.840 you know, the, the, the church should triage and then connect. And that gets back to some of the 00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:51.960 resource that you're talking about. Yeah. Like as you're taught, as you're talking about a ministry 00:40:51.960 --> 00:40:58.220 of mental health, like, is that really the, is that the front lines of this where you've got people 00:40:58.220 --> 00:41:04.540 that are, that are triaging and then resourcing to, to someone for the longterm? Like, is, is that, 00:41:04.620 --> 00:41:11.220 is that the idea? Yeah. I mean, it is. And you can see that if you compare like the mental health 00:41:11.220 --> 00:41:16.960 system to our just health system, which I know is not great, but like, if you have a headache, 00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:21.780 you can take Advil or something, you can take Tylenol. And then if it's worse, you can go to an 00:41:21.780 --> 00:41:26.620 urgent care, if it's really bad or go to your doctor. And like, if it progresses, you can go, 00:41:26.740 --> 00:41:31.980 you know, to surgery and then you are going in rehab. So you have this like steady kind of flow. 00:41:32.340 --> 00:41:38.460 You go up the hill and you go down, you got that pathway. Usually when people are searching out 00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:44.340 mental health and struggling with that, it's at that critical highest point. They don't get that 00:41:44.340 --> 00:41:50.340 care they need at the beginning. So this is a great way. Um, and that's a lot what the AACC is doing 00:41:50.340 --> 00:41:55.640 with the mental health coaches is creating lay leaders, volunteers that can help with that triage 00:41:55.640 --> 00:42:01.360 piece as well. Um, but any kind of mental health, just caring for those so that you can help direct 00:42:01.360 --> 00:42:06.920 them so that it doesn't come to that point. Because I mean, I don't know if you've noticed or looked, 00:42:06.920 --> 00:42:13.020 but, um, a lot of professional counselors, therapists, they're booked. Um, it's hard to 00:42:13.020 --> 00:42:18.960 get into them a lot of times. And so either you have a waiting period or you have a hard time finding 00:42:18.960 --> 00:42:25.440 one at all. Um, and so having somebody that can sit down and listen and talk to you, uh, that's the 00:42:25.440 --> 00:42:30.100 biggest part to be able to just be there. That can make a difference in someone's life, just being 00:42:30.100 --> 00:42:35.900 there. I mean, like, like I said, with, with the, for me, with the depression, um, saying it 00:42:35.900 --> 00:42:43.580 solve 70% of my problems. Like I, I felt like I was, I've, I was not going to take my life. Like I, 00:42:43.580 --> 00:42:47.180 I almost, I feel awkward having this conversation publicly because I don't want people to freak out 00:42:47.180 --> 00:42:54.540 on me. I was not planning on, on ending my life. Um, but I was, I was circling around depression 00:42:54.540 --> 00:42:59.700 and, and I was in a position where I didn't feel like I could get out of it. And I kept trying 00:42:59.700 --> 00:43:06.940 to solve the problem of why I was depressed thinking that the, why would actually help me 00:43:06.940 --> 00:43:15.740 get over it. Um, and I, I just, after a couple of, maybe a month or so, I, I could not figure out 00:43:15.740 --> 00:43:21.720 whether it was situational, which may or may not exist, whether it was medical or whether it was, 00:43:21.720 --> 00:43:27.940 was health related. And I just, I got to this place, you know, after talking with counselors and, 00:43:27.940 --> 00:43:31.140 and, and, you know, I've got seven doctors on speed dial, I'm having conversations with lots of 00:43:31.140 --> 00:43:38.380 people. Um, and, and at the end of the day, I, I just, when I told Andy, Hey man, I'm, I'm depressed. 00:43:38.380 --> 00:43:43.200 Like, I just, I need to publicly say that. Uh, I told, I told my wife and then Andy was number two. 00:43:43.880 --> 00:43:48.660 And, um, you know, when, when he, and he looks at me and, and he, you know, shared some things from 00:43:48.660 --> 00:43:54.780 his life and we had a conversation and it was, it was 70% gone. Like I still struggle. I still have 00:43:54.780 --> 00:44:03.040 things that, that I'm wary of. Um, but things have been progressively better. And it was interesting. 00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:07.600 Like even, even today at a call with a friend, we were talking, I had this conversation. First time I 00:44:07.600 --> 00:44:14.280 told them about this depression stuff. And, uh, and they, they asked me the question and I got the 00:44:14.280 --> 00:44:19.440 feeling that they have experienced with some depression as well. And they asked me, um, Hey Jeff, 00:44:19.500 --> 00:44:25.180 where do you find joy? And, and really, you know, started diving into, you know, a joy, joy isn't 00:44:25.180 --> 00:44:31.400 guaranteed, but taking time to find happiness in everything that you're doing, um, in, in finding 00:44:31.400 --> 00:44:37.660 purpose in that and making yourself go through that exercise. Um, I mean, it really started to 00:44:37.660 --> 00:44:43.800 chisel away at some of, of what this is. That's that was inside some of this weight that I was 00:44:43.800 --> 00:44:48.900 carrying. So I love what you're talking about here. Now, you know, you've got, you and I 00:44:48.900 --> 00:44:56.460 are saying, admit it, address it, embrace it, move on. Like that's the, that's the 2024 healthy 00:44:56.460 --> 00:45:02.160 approach, some would say. And so we mentioned earlier, there's, there was a white cap, a white 00:45:02.160 --> 00:45:09.640 beard through white cap, flat beard. I'm sorry, man. Uh, white, white beard threw up a link 00:45:09.640 --> 00:45:15.400 here. Um, an article, I actually haven't clicked on it, but, um, cause I, I know that I know the 00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:22.040 whole article, uh, John MacArthur denies mental illness, no such thing as PTSD, OCD, ADHD, whatever. 00:45:22.900 --> 00:45:29.680 Um, and so John MacArthur, um, you know, I almost want to disclaim this upfront. I feel like we 00:45:29.680 --> 00:45:35.860 villainize John MacArthur a lot on this show. Now, John MacArthur has taken public shots at the 00:45:35.860 --> 00:45:41.960 church digital, digital church network, myself and, and, uh, a former, uh, teammate, Chesley Lundy, 00:45:41.960 --> 00:45:49.280 uh, with our views on digital church. And, um, you know, Chesley made the statement, the church needs 00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:55.600 a, um, needs disruption and John MacArthur and John MacArthur's team objected to that, 00:45:55.600 --> 00:46:03.060 took to the lines to, you know, publicly ridicule how we are operating and what we're doing with, 00:46:03.060 --> 00:46:09.960 with, uh, digital churches. And, and, you know, I, I replied back by, by offering him a copy of 00:46:09.960 --> 00:46:14.540 my book on virtual reality churches and said, I'd love to have a conversation with him wherever he 00:46:14.540 --> 00:46:18.820 wanted leadership network exponential offered to, to host the conversation between the two of us. 00:46:19.380 --> 00:46:25.160 And, um, he did not reply. So I am not, um, I do not want to pick a fight with John MacArthur, 00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:30.720 um, one way or the other, that being said, and this is the second week in a row, John MacArthur 00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:35.540 comes up on a podcast. So, uh, we just got to, I guess, be okay with that. Sorry, John, if you're 00:46:35.540 --> 00:46:41.460 listening, by the way, like I, I soapbox, sorry, Megan, I used to run a Christian bookstore. 00:46:42.120 --> 00:46:50.040 Like, I mean, John MacArthur study Bibles would be behind me on there, like reading as a, 00:46:52.120 --> 00:47:00.120 yeah, I'll say this in my, in my twenties, I had a desire to do digital ministry 00:47:00.120 --> 00:47:08.480 and not one freaking church on the planet had vision for it in the year 2000 and 2001. 00:47:09.360 --> 00:47:15.960 And so I'm trying to figure out like how to like pay the bills. And, and, and honestly, 00:47:15.960 --> 00:47:20.000 like my, my parents were like, go to seminary and I'm like, cause you want to do ministry. 00:47:20.000 --> 00:47:24.460 And I'm like, seminary is not going to teach. I mean, they'll teach me about God, but this 00:47:24.460 --> 00:47:29.920 aspect of digital ministry, no, like it's that nobody's, nobody's talking or thinking or doing 00:47:29.920 --> 00:47:38.560 what I want to do. Um, and there was a season where I really leaned into, uh, this idea of, 00:47:38.560 --> 00:47:44.500 of biblical counseling and I wanted to be a counselor. I wanted to be the therapist, like 00:47:44.500 --> 00:47:51.560 mental health for me, even, even early two thousands was, was a fascination to the point 00:47:51.560 --> 00:47:58.440 that I wanted, like I've read intro to biblical counseling by, uh, by MacArthur from cover to 00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:06.300 cover multiple times. And in the foreword, when he describes the story of basically saying, 00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:12.000 he tells the story of, of a, of a young person who needed, uh, who felt like he needed counseling. 00:48:12.000 --> 00:48:17.960 And instead he just needed to pray harder. That's the story in the foreword before he actually 00:48:17.960 --> 00:48:26.680 gets into the book. In 2000, 2001, 2002, to be honest, that's what church culture was. 00:48:28.260 --> 00:48:34.800 You know, I can't, I don't want to slam the guy for believing the way that it's all they 00:48:34.800 --> 00:48:42.080 knew. And so it's, I mean, honestly, it's like the, it's like the pastor that says to me, 00:48:42.180 --> 00:48:47.580 you know, Jeff, you're going to hell for taking people out of the bride of Christ is physical 00:48:47.580 --> 00:48:53.320 church building. You should repent your, of your sins. Um, and, and endorse the physical church 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:56.820 instead of all this digital mumbo jumbo, which is a real conversation, by the way. I'm not just 00:48:56.820 --> 00:49:05.040 making that up. Um, I can't ridicule that guy. I don't, I don't agree with him. I think it's an old 00:49:05.040 --> 00:49:14.040 mindset, but to be honest, the majority of these people are old and have come from that old culture 00:49:14.040 --> 00:49:20.160 and they haven't modernized. You know, a lot of people have vilified John MacArthur for a number 00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:25.340 of reasons that have nothing to do with the church digital, but the heart of it is he has an old 00:49:25.340 --> 00:49:34.080 mindset that has not adapted. Um, and, and I, I say this graciously and no, I don't really mean 00:49:34.080 --> 00:49:40.740 anything and don't let this statement go viral. At some point that generation is going to die off. 00:49:40.740 --> 00:49:47.320 Like that's not me ripping. That's just the reality. It's a danger. I mean, I said, I'm, I'm 46. 00:49:48.580 --> 00:49:56.140 The danger that I have is thinking that my way is the only way. John MacArthur thinks that his way is 00:49:56.140 --> 00:50:04.320 the only way, you know, I'm fearful of the day that I become John MacArthur, holding to my truths 00:50:04.320 --> 00:50:10.460 that I believe without recognizing that culture can change while Jesus is the same yesterday, today, 00:50:10.460 --> 00:50:18.360 and forever. That's really the challenge that I think the John MacArthur crowd has because 00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:27.800 they're following a, a view of culture and are, and are assuming that a lot of what they believe is 00:50:27.800 --> 00:50:34.480 theology is opinions. Uh, and it's not grounded in biblical fact. It's, it's grounded in, in, um, 00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:40.940 extra biblical ideology. Sorry. That's my soapbox. Megan, would you like to contribute anything? 00:50:41.160 --> 00:50:45.400 That was a very long monologue on my part. That's probably the longest I've ever talked on the show. 00:50:45.460 --> 00:50:48.340 I'm going to shut up. Megan, you go. No, I mean, I agree with you. 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:52.940 I think that's, you can't beat somebody down just cause that's the only way they grew up because 00:50:52.940 --> 00:50:58.880 there are things the way I grew up that I, if I would go back today, like to that time, 00:50:58.880 --> 00:51:05.540 I would be like, why did you think that? Because if we're not growing and learning, like we're not 00:51:05.540 --> 00:51:10.880 moving forward. And I think we do that even with like biblical knowledge and, and learning that. 00:51:10.880 --> 00:51:17.820 And what I would say to it, it's, I've done some research into just different scriptures and we deal 00:51:17.820 --> 00:51:22.040 with a lot of different discipleship. I work side by side with our discipleship pastor. And 00:51:22.040 --> 00:51:28.800 whenever somebody gets baptized, we always talk to them about, you know, the time that the leaders of 00:51:29.460 --> 00:51:35.440 came to Jesus. Right. And they were like, which one of the 613 laws, which I'm going to say, 00:51:35.500 --> 00:51:40.860 I'm a perfectionist and there's no way I could follow 613 laws. It's just like 613 ways to fail. 00:51:40.860 --> 00:51:47.520 Right. So I, I couldn't do it, but, and honestly, it was a thing that was impossible to really 00:51:47.520 --> 00:51:51.720 actually follow all those laws. And so they were like, well, Jesus, how, you know, they're trying 00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:57.740 to catch them, which ones, which one is the most important. And that's when he says the greatest of 00:51:57.740 --> 00:52:01.060 all these is love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength and love your neighbors 00:52:01.060 --> 00:52:05.800 yourself was just as important. And that's what I try to tell people. Like that's how we need to live 00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:10.460 our life. And they're really interesting pieces. You know, Jesus knew who he was talking to in that 00:52:10.460 --> 00:52:14.400 moment. And when he was saying, love the Lord God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, 00:52:14.520 --> 00:52:19.380 he was talking from Isaiah, which they would have known that because that's something they would have 00:52:19.380 --> 00:52:25.840 learned and grown up, grown up with. But Jesus added the mind in there. So in Isaiah, it says with all 00:52:25.840 --> 00:52:31.400 your heart, soul, and your strength, but Jesus had in mind, and I don't think that was by accident. 00:52:31.980 --> 00:52:39.060 I think that that goes back to the whole person is that he saw us as a whole person. And so my one 00:52:39.060 --> 00:52:47.020 piece would be, if I was talking to John MacArthur, um, probably won't, but if I was, I would be like, 00:52:47.060 --> 00:52:52.960 we just need to look at people as a whole person like Jesus did. And so what somebody is struggling 00:52:52.960 --> 00:52:58.200 with, you may not relate with, you may not understand. And the more and more I learn about 00:52:58.200 --> 00:53:04.220 the brain, the less and less I know, because it is so intricate. And for me, like looking at that, 00:53:04.320 --> 00:53:11.560 I see how just specific and so intentional God created us, how he created the brain to be wired. 00:53:11.560 --> 00:53:17.360 And yeah, sometimes it feels a little off or, or chemical imbalances. Those things are real 00:53:17.360 --> 00:53:23.720 because we have some things to back it up, but we have to look at that as we don't always understand 00:53:23.720 --> 00:53:29.620 what that person's going through. And so if we can just take a moment to like set all of our own 00:53:29.620 --> 00:53:36.160 perspectives aside and sit with that person, that's that being present. And then just listen to them and 00:53:36.160 --> 00:53:40.900 what they're saying. You may not agree with them and that's okay, but just be able to sit with them 00:53:40.900 --> 00:53:47.600 and listen and, and care for them. I mean, that's what Jesus did, right? He sat with them, he cared for them. 00:53:47.880 --> 00:53:53.660 And that's what we're supposed to do as disciples. We're supposed to follow him, his footsteps and become 00:53:53.660 --> 00:54:01.380 more like him every day. And that's the way I go by it. And that's the way I try to live my life, where I look 00:54:01.380 --> 00:54:07.800 back and see, yeah, I probably wouldn't have done things like I do now that I used to. But yeah, living in life like 00:54:07.800 --> 00:54:10.560 that, and just leading with love above everything else. 00:54:11.700 --> 00:54:16.720 Yeah, that's, that's a really interesting takeaway, leading with love, opening up with that. 00:54:18.020 --> 00:54:28.680 The, the, you know, here, Pastor D, that culture of mental health still exists, or the, you know, talking about 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:35.040 MacArthur, that still exists in churches today. I can't necessarily say, especially black churches, but yes, it's still 00:54:35.040 --> 00:54:43.020 present yet. And she, Pastor D, does a lot of work in African-American churches. Does, Pastor, I'm blanking 00:54:43.020 --> 00:54:49.360 on the name of your church right now, but she has a digital church that operates in that space. The, she's, 00:54:49.440 --> 00:54:53.020 excuse me, tell me in a second, I'll say it. But, you know, whether, whether it's African-American 00:54:53.020 --> 00:55:03.200 or, you know, Hispanic, thehouseofhisglory.com, you can check that out. But the, whether it's, 00:55:03.200 --> 00:55:07.520 it's African-American, I know it's prevalent in Hispanic. I know it's prevalent in white. I know 00:55:07.520 --> 00:55:18.500 it's prevalent in blended. Like there's, there's lots of, of obvious problems. What I love about what 00:55:18.500 --> 00:55:25.600 we're doing is we're trying to provide a solution. Now, you know, the learning community, awesome. 00:55:25.780 --> 00:55:30.160 Come in here, explore, figure it out. What is ministry? What is a, what does a mental health 00:55:30.160 --> 00:55:34.540 ministry look like? How does triage, you know, what, what's, what's working here? What's working 00:55:34.540 --> 00:55:40.060 for you? Let's, let's learn from each other together and let's experiment with some different 00:55:40.060 --> 00:55:47.960 ideas. If there's a, if there's already a solution, then it's just executing on a blueprint or, or, 00:55:47.960 --> 00:55:55.220 or adapting it. And, and, you know, maybe in time there will be, but it's not today. And so, 00:55:55.220 --> 00:56:00.560 you know, us, the, the church digital constantly wanting to be on the, the innovation line to, 00:56:00.620 --> 00:56:06.140 to help, um, address some of these problems. Like I, I believe what Megan's describing is a 00:56:06.140 --> 00:56:12.420 bleeding edge concept to try to solve a problem that is prevalent in a whole lot of churches. And so 00:56:12.420 --> 00:56:17.400 physical churches, digital churches, hybrid churches, um, you know, African-American, 00:56:17.580 --> 00:56:20.540 red and yellow, black and white, we're a precious in a site, something like that. I don't know, 00:56:20.540 --> 00:56:24.780 but the, uh, oh my gosh, I'm, I'm starting to sing in my head and I'm not going to do that. 00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:31.480 But the reality is, is that, you know, anybody, Megan, what did you say? Who should be a part 00:56:31.480 --> 00:56:36.220 of this learning community? You said, I mean, it was somebody who cares. Yeah. Anybody who cares? 00:56:36.880 --> 00:56:43.960 Um, anybody who cares? I feel like I'm calling people out. Yeah. If you love people, if you give 00:56:43.960 --> 00:56:50.760 a crap about your neighbor, um, you know, but if, if you want to understand how to, to better address, 00:56:50.760 --> 00:56:54.400 um, mental health, uh, Megan, we're going to bring you back on at some point, 00:56:54.460 --> 00:56:59.520 cause I want to dive into the, um, the, the crash and burn of the supporters like that, 00:56:59.520 --> 00:57:05.020 that, that, that you mentioned that podcast into itself. It's huge. Um, but like I, I, you know, 00:57:05.020 --> 00:57:10.720 if, if your church is interested in this, um, there's more information, the church.digital 00:57:10.720 --> 00:57:17.680 slash LC for learning community short that I'll redirect you over white beard is like the teleprompter. 00:57:18.100 --> 00:57:24.080 I, you know, he's, he's just on it, man. He's so good. Um, learning communities are at an 00:57:24.080 --> 00:57:29.060 introductory price of 797. So they're running the summer, uh, June, July, and August, eight weeks 00:57:29.060 --> 00:57:35.540 this summer. Go through it all online. Uh, the church.digital slash LC more information on the 00:57:35.540 --> 00:57:40.200 website. We'll get you in touch with Megan and, uh, we can go from there. It's awesome. 00:57:41.160 --> 00:57:46.200 Hey Megan, it's listen, it's always, this is the first, this is the first podcast you and I have 00:57:46.200 --> 00:57:54.060 done solo, solo. Um, I feel like we did one, but it was like years ago about digital missionaries. 00:57:54.160 --> 00:58:02.160 I think. Okay. Okay. Maybe we did. Maybe we will scrape the archives to find out. Well, 00:58:02.200 --> 00:58:08.240 I'm surprised. I'm surprised, uh, white beard. No, yes. Episode 32 or whatever. Like I know. 00:58:08.820 --> 00:58:14.180 Um, yeah, you know what? I, I probably, well, it was either you and Tyler or maybe you solo. I don't 00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:18.780 remember, but I do remember talking about that back in the day, but, uh, it's, man, it's, it's great. 00:58:18.860 --> 00:58:24.820 I've had John recently talking about mental health and grief and a couple other situations and, uh, 00:58:24.820 --> 00:58:30.400 looking forward to seeing this learning community come to fruition. But, uh, as we are landing the 00:58:30.400 --> 00:58:34.900 plane here in any closing thoughts on your side? I mean, the biggest thing is like, I just want to 00:58:34.900 --> 00:58:40.300 share the knowledge that I've learned to be able to help other people. Um, we've done mental health 00:58:40.300 --> 00:58:45.960 ministry here for a while at the church. And so being able to share that, um, with others, some trial and 00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:50.460 error happened, we found some things that work, some things that don't work. So if we can help you, 00:58:50.520 --> 00:58:55.260 if I can help you at all of some things that maybe won't work very well, or that might be a little 00:58:55.260 --> 00:58:59.440 more struggle, um, that's something I would love to be able to do. And that's, I mean, it's my passion 00:58:59.440 --> 00:59:05.700 as I think it's one of my heartbeats of just helping people, um, in this area and just, uh, being an 00:59:05.700 --> 00:59:12.020 advocate for that. Yeah. Awesome. And so really looking forward to seeing that, that come to fruition and 00:59:12.020 --> 00:59:16.980 honestly helping more churches, even past this learning community, uh, address this. And you're 00:59:16.980 --> 00:59:20.940 going to be seeing and hearing more of Megan, uh, through the church digital and in the, in the 00:59:20.940 --> 00:59:25.720 months to come. So cool. I keep getting text messages. I think my kids are outside and they 00:59:25.720 --> 00:59:29.860 left their keys at home and they're trying to get in the house. And I mean, that's not my fault. 00:59:29.860 --> 00:59:33.940 Cause dude, like, you know, I tell my kids all the time, own your crap. Like you got to get in the 00:59:33.940 --> 00:59:38.160 house, take keys with you. Don't, don't, don't get mad at me. I'm just saying like, I'm not, 00:59:38.160 --> 00:59:43.980 I'm your dad. I'm not. Anyway, I'm sorry. I'm like, we have one of those really cool down print ones. 00:59:44.180 --> 00:59:50.480 Yeah. It's awesome. We may, I have, yeah, I've got this, uh, I wish I would love a Bluetooth lock, 00:59:50.620 --> 00:59:56.660 you know, app, but, uh, we've got these like hurricane proof doors that only a certain lock 00:59:56.660 --> 01:00:01.660 goes on and they don't make the Bluetooth to fit that. And like, I just, whatever. So this is, 01:00:01.660 --> 01:00:05.380 you know, we're, we're going into extra, extra innings here with the church digital podcast. So 01:00:05.380 --> 01:00:10.920 we're going to land the plane on the recording. Check out the church.digital slash LC for more 01:00:10.920 --> 01:00:18.440 information on the learning community. And, uh, Hey, for to, uh, pastor D whitebeard, Melanie, 01:00:18.440 --> 01:00:25.420 uh, everybody else, Simon, uh, Andy was hanging around, uh, in each crew. Um, every, I'm just 01:00:25.420 --> 01:00:29.240 scrolling through chat real quick. Uh, anybody else that was hanging out with us today was awesome. 01:00:29.740 --> 01:00:34.720 Uh, flat, uh, flat, uh, flat cap as well. So thanks for hanging out with us. We're going to wrap 01:00:34.720 --> 01:00:40.020 up. So for, uh, for Megan, this is Jeff with the church digital. Thanks for hanging out with us 01:00:40.020 --> 01:00:42.220 in the show. We'll see you next time on the pop. Have a good one.