WEBVTT 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:06.080 It's something we say in mental health space and in recovery space, you're only as sick as your secrets. 00:00:07.940 --> 00:00:15.560 Now that's more in terms of addiction, but even in the sense of mental health, when you have to carry this burden privately, it's just heavier. 00:00:16.260 --> 00:00:18.300 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:19.240 --> 00:00:23.120 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the Church. 00:00:23.480 --> 00:00:26.940 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:27.120 --> 00:00:29.220 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:29.700 --> 00:00:31.640 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:31.940 --> 00:00:34.500 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:34.920 --> 00:00:38.820 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:39.580 --> 00:00:48.380 Whether you're a big or small church, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically. 00:00:48.800 --> 00:00:50.540 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:51.220 --> 00:00:53.560 All right. Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:53.560 --> 00:00:56.640 We've got episode 306. 00:00:57.520 --> 00:00:59.460 Jeff Reed here, founder of Church Digital. 00:00:59.460 --> 00:01:01.620 We're excited. We're kicking off a new season. 00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:03.240 I've had so many seasons. 00:01:03.380 --> 00:01:05.120 I don't even know what season number this is. 00:01:05.800 --> 00:01:07.920 I want to say it's season eight. 00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:13.200 If I had Whitebeard here in Discord, he would fact check me and tell me correctly. 00:01:13.600 --> 00:01:15.160 But he's not in the room yet. 00:01:15.260 --> 00:01:18.340 And so I think it's season eight. 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:20.520 The season, I'm really excited about this season, though. 00:01:20.580 --> 00:01:24.460 We're doing a deep dive on mental health. 00:01:25.120 --> 00:01:26.660 Whitebeard is in the room. 00:01:26.740 --> 00:01:27.120 Thank you, sir. 00:01:27.140 --> 00:01:28.520 We were just talking about you. 00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:32.860 By the way, before we get into this, like we're doing this live recording on Discord. 00:01:33.220 --> 00:01:38.900 We do this on the TCD Discord server every Tuesday or Wednesday. 00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:46.540 So we will have all of the live recordings in the events board listed there. 00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:50.320 But check it out Tuesday or Wednesday as we typically do TCD recordings. 00:01:51.040 --> 00:01:53.900 And so like this season, we're doing obviously mental health. 00:01:54.460 --> 00:01:56.740 Whitebeard, I was asking you to fact check me. 00:01:58.540 --> 00:02:00.240 What season am I on? 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:01.080 This is a new season. 00:02:01.540 --> 00:02:02.900 We just wrapped up season seven. 00:02:03.560 --> 00:02:04.320 Wait, that's a church. 00:02:04.380 --> 00:02:05.140 Or was that season eight? 00:02:05.220 --> 00:02:05.840 Wait, that's a church. 00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.540 I don't know if you can get that number, but see, so we're on season nine. 00:02:09.760 --> 00:02:10.900 He's telling me season nine. 00:02:11.480 --> 00:02:12.340 Wait, that's a church. 00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:14.180 I freaking love Whitebeard. 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:20.260 He's like the perfect fact checker for everything until he like gets an attitude and starts correcting me. 00:02:20.620 --> 00:02:23.380 It's one thing to fact check me, but then correcting me is completely different. 00:02:23.580 --> 00:02:24.800 But so we're in season nine. 00:02:24.900 --> 00:02:25.460 Thank you, Whitebeard. 00:02:25.580 --> 00:02:26.720 Wait, that's a church. 00:02:27.300 --> 00:02:34.860 No, we are on season nine of mental health in digital, digital and mental health. 00:02:34.860 --> 00:02:40.320 And so there's so much implication centered around mental health in digital ministry. 00:02:40.500 --> 00:02:43.480 A, ourselves as we're doing ministry in that space. 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:48.000 B, as we're ministering to people in a mental health environment. 00:02:48.300 --> 00:02:54.820 C, protecting ourselves as we're in sometimes addictive environments and dealing with people 00:02:54.820 --> 00:03:02.940 that have addiction type tendencies and issues, not to even get into other mental issues that people might be dealing with digitally. 00:03:02.940 --> 00:03:08.580 It was interesting, and a stream yesterday was talking with the group, talking about the season that was kicking off. 00:03:08.580 --> 00:03:17.680 And they started sharing examples of stories of people that they've dealt with, that have had mental issues. 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:29.120 And it seems like in digital ministry, like once you really get beyond broadcast and get into relational aspects of digital ministry, digital church, digital missions work, 00:03:29.480 --> 00:03:40.000 you really find yourself engaging with people that are in dire straits, that have more needs, that are more open to conversing about it than they are in physical space. 00:03:40.140 --> 00:03:41.640 So I'm excited for this season. 00:03:41.640 --> 00:03:47.880 We've got eight weeks coming in, and I'm going to bring Megan Carter on, who's obviously, you can see her. 00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:53.220 But Megan is, I'm not going to lie, she's the brainchild of this season. 00:03:53.520 --> 00:03:58.500 I just said to Megan, hey, I want to do a season on mental health, will you help me? 00:03:58.500 --> 00:04:09.180 And she designed the episodes and the questions and really is, you know, she's going to take over the Church Digital Podcast for the next eight weeks. 00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:13.120 And I'm just going to be like a pretty eye candy on YouTube for you all. 00:04:13.220 --> 00:04:16.380 No, but it's really excited about this. 00:04:16.500 --> 00:04:19.620 Megan, why don't you just set the stage a little bit and introduce yourself? 00:04:20.220 --> 00:04:30.020 Yeah, so Megan Carter, I'm on staff at First Capital Christian Church slash Church Anywhere, has multiple names, depending if you're in person or online. 00:04:30.420 --> 00:04:34.700 So, yeah, I get to be part of the staff and Next Steps Pastor. 00:04:34.940 --> 00:04:36.560 There's a lot that goes along with that. 00:04:36.680 --> 00:04:42.560 It's hard to sum up in like a sentence what that does, but it's basically guiding people into whatever their next step may be. 00:04:43.140 --> 00:04:49.620 And so a big part of that and my passion that God's placed in my heart and something that I've personally dealt with is mental health. 00:04:49.920 --> 00:05:00.700 So going through trainings to just become aware of more than what I've just dealt with, but what other people are struggling with and be able to help them in other ways as well is huge passion of mine. 00:05:00.780 --> 00:05:03.320 And so getting to step into something like that is awesome. 00:05:03.320 --> 00:05:11.080 And so I'm excited to partner with you guys and do this as well and meet some awesome guests that we're going to have on this episode or these seasons. 00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:17.080 Yeah, so I'm excited about the episodes here that Megan's put together. 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:24.240 And so the first one that she put together was what we're talking about today, mental health stigmas and the church. 00:05:24.720 --> 00:05:33.580 And I honestly, my contribution was, okay, let me, you know, connect the dots and see who would be an interesting person to talk about the mental health stigmas. 00:05:33.580 --> 00:05:37.900 And DJ Chong quickly rose up for this episode. 00:05:38.060 --> 00:05:57.500 So DJ, my gosh, he is, I mean, I want to call you a OG of digital ministry because dude's been doing digital ministry like before, maybe before I was like, he's been doing this for such, such a long time. 00:05:57.500 --> 00:06:08.540 And I feel like DJ, you know, people tell me, Jeff, you know, everybody, I don't know anybody compared to DJ Chong, DJ Chong's network and relationship pool is incredible. 00:06:08.720 --> 00:06:14.900 I mean, at one point he was running a database of churches that were doing ministry online. 00:06:14.900 --> 00:06:23.600 Like you could, if you started broadcasting, you would check in with DJ to let him know that you were doing like literally like that was the extent what was happening was incredible. 00:06:23.600 --> 00:06:28.600 And so DJ, maybe just introduce yourself here a little bit and tell, tell the audience who you are. 00:06:29.300 --> 00:06:30.040 Well, thank you, Jeff. 00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:32.380 It's OG just means I'm old. 00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:35.140 I just turned 58 in July. 00:06:35.600 --> 00:06:50.020 I'm so honored to be here and being the kickoff, the lead off hitter for your series, which, which means I can get on base, but your next three people are going to provide the grand slam, which will be amazing. 00:06:50.020 --> 00:06:52.900 And so mental health is such a big issue. 00:06:53.100 --> 00:06:54.200 It's a global crisis. 00:06:55.140 --> 00:06:57.100 Our Surgeon General here in the U.S. 00:06:57.160 --> 00:07:04.380 has acknowledged that loneliness is a crisis, an epidemic, and that's only just one part of mental health. 00:07:05.320 --> 00:07:08.240 Before I dig into that, share with you who I am. 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:21.920 I've been blogging for over 20 years, so that's kind of the history I've had with online, the online world, and just continue to use the latest technology, social media, podcasting. 00:07:22.600 --> 00:07:29.720 I think we started social media church back in 2012, 2013, something like that, 500 episodes there. 00:07:30.600 --> 00:07:31.660 Handed it off to Noel Smith. 00:07:31.780 --> 00:07:32.700 He continues to run that. 00:07:33.140 --> 00:07:36.660 I'm actually coming to you live from Silicon Valley today. 00:07:36.660 --> 00:07:40.840 Happened to be up here doing some networking and co-working. 00:07:40.840 --> 00:07:43.720 Married 29 years. 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:48.540 Went to Virginia Tech for my undergrad, computer engineering. 00:07:49.040 --> 00:07:54.720 Went to Dallas Seminary, so I have a background in technology and theology. 00:07:55.720 --> 00:08:03.540 Worked in church for five years and realized I can be an okay pastor, but who needs an okay pastor? 00:08:04.780 --> 00:08:10.460 My journey is realizing God uses not just my skills, but also my passion. 00:08:11.420 --> 00:08:16.840 And so 24 years ago, how I got into mental health ministry is part of my own experience. 00:08:16.840 --> 00:08:26.260 I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at the age of 35 when I left vocational pastoring. 00:08:26.700 --> 00:08:38.320 And the past 24 years has been a personal recovery journey, but also continuing to serve the church at large with the capital C and outside of its church walls. 00:08:39.320 --> 00:08:48.820 And one of the things I realized is every time I share my mental health journey, that it opens more doors for ministry than when I open the Bible. 00:08:49.960 --> 00:08:54.920 And so the online space has been a great place to connect with people. 00:08:55.400 --> 00:08:59.620 And I'll unpack a bit more of that as we continue this conversation. 00:08:59.620 --> 00:09:03.680 So thank you for inviting me to be part of this conversation at TCD. 00:09:05.220 --> 00:09:05.900 Love it. 00:09:05.900 --> 00:09:15.900 And so what I want to say, and I'm looking forward to so much there, even to digging into the dealing with the bipolar 25 years ago. 00:09:15.980 --> 00:09:18.200 Like, oh, my gosh, that begs so many questions right here. 00:09:18.640 --> 00:09:21.700 The church response in that space and how it's evolved over time. 00:09:22.240 --> 00:09:24.540 You know, we've got six people in the room. 00:09:24.680 --> 00:09:25.620 Hector watching this live. 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:26.940 Hector, Whitebeard, Whatta Rob. 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:29.320 Flatcap, Walt, First Pet. 00:09:29.340 --> 00:09:30.960 If you guys got questions, put them in chat. 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.960 We'll try to engage, pull them in into the conversation as we're going. 00:09:36.380 --> 00:09:37.520 And I'll tell you what. 00:09:37.720 --> 00:09:40.440 Let me ask that question, and then I want to back off. 00:09:41.460 --> 00:09:45.300 25 years ago, you were diagnosed with bipolar. 00:09:46.980 --> 00:09:55.780 I'll say for me, doing ministry 25 years ago, I, as a pastor, had no idea how to deal with bipolar people. 00:09:56.700 --> 00:10:00.860 Like, and so, like, I mean, I don't want to say, like, I would shove them off. 00:10:01.000 --> 00:10:08.000 But it was, it was, for me, it was way too complicated to understand even how to do that. 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:12.900 And sadly, I know pastors 25 years later today that are still probably responding in that same way. 00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:21.340 How did, how did the church perceive you 25 years ago when you kind of were, like, was it open hands? 00:10:21.440 --> 00:10:22.500 Was it, was the question marks? 00:10:22.500 --> 00:10:27.280 Like, talk to me a little bit about that journey, about a personal level, what you've had to deal with. 00:10:28.580 --> 00:10:31.980 Yeah, so 25 years ago, I was 35 years old. 00:10:32.720 --> 00:10:44.640 And I think looking back at my life, middle school, high school, I've always had symptoms and feelings of depression and sadness, but not to the degree where I couldn't function. 00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:55.660 And so, since I could survive, hold down a job, do okay in school, I wouldn't think of going to a counselor to get help because I'm okay, I'm surviving. 00:10:56.780 --> 00:11:03.620 And because of the shame and stigma as a Chinese American, all the more reason not to seek mental health treatment. 00:11:03.620 --> 00:11:08.480 And back then, 25 years ago, there wasn't much conversation about mental health. 00:11:09.420 --> 00:11:26.240 And my only point of reference when it came to bipolar disorder was there was another guy in our church who had bipolar with much more severe symptoms, where he couldn't function for months at a time. 00:11:26.780 --> 00:11:30.120 And he couldn't hold down a job for months at a time. 00:11:30.900 --> 00:11:38.540 And so, his symptoms were so pronounced that for a couple weeks, he'd be super energetic, super outgoing. 00:11:38.980 --> 00:11:46.020 And then for another month, he would be so sad and so depressed and could barely talk to people. 00:11:46.740 --> 00:11:54.580 And so, the mood swings, which is what bipolar disorder is a diagnosis around, you have very high highs and low lows. 00:11:54.820 --> 00:12:02.460 So, it looks like one moment, you're super man, super energetic, super outgoing, and maybe misbehaving a little bit. 00:12:03.140 --> 00:12:06.860 And then depression, just sad and blue. 00:12:07.580 --> 00:12:13.300 Now, my symptoms were not so pronounced until I had some stressful moments in my life. 00:12:13.460 --> 00:12:22.920 So, over the past 25 years, every three to five years, I have some stressful episodes like moving cross-country or changing jobs or being laid off. 00:12:22.920 --> 00:12:37.300 And those are triggers that affect my mood regulation where I need to adjust my medication and seek some extra professional help to get readjusted and normalized. 00:12:37.860 --> 00:12:42.940 So, that's a quick snapshot of what bipolar disorder, number two, there's two kinds. 00:12:43.060 --> 00:12:44.160 There's number one and number two. 00:12:44.920 --> 00:12:50.100 I can't tell the difference, but mine's number two, which means it's less severe than some others. 00:12:54.180 --> 00:12:56.820 How did you feel during that time? 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.140 Did you feel supported by certain people? 00:13:00.300 --> 00:13:01.660 Were they in the church, out of the church? 00:13:01.820 --> 00:13:04.040 Or did you feel that stigma on you? 00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:06.160 I think a lot of people can relate with that. 00:13:06.160 --> 00:13:06.700 Like, I can. 00:13:06.820 --> 00:13:09.200 I have that same kind of story of dealing with that. 00:13:09.380 --> 00:13:11.160 So, I'd love to hear kind of your perspective. 00:13:12.440 --> 00:13:21.500 Well, when it comes to mental health 25 years ago and even now, it's by default a private and heavy burden carry. 00:13:22.360 --> 00:13:28.640 There's not many safe places where you can just let your hair down and share more openly about what you're struggling with. 00:13:29.360 --> 00:13:42.240 And certainly, 25 years ago, even more so, where it was just a private thing that my pastor and a few close friends and even just a few family members knew about. 00:13:42.660 --> 00:13:44.360 But not all my family knew about it. 00:13:45.140 --> 00:13:46.600 And certainly not my church. 00:13:46.740 --> 00:13:55.780 And so, when you have a secret, and something we say in mental health space and in recovery space, you're only as sick as your secrets. 00:13:57.720 --> 00:14:00.120 Now, that's more in terms of addiction. 00:14:00.340 --> 00:14:05.360 But even in the sense of mental health, when you have to carry this burden privately, it's just heavier. 00:14:06.440 --> 00:14:09.880 And the Bible talks about when we share our burden, it becomes lighter. 00:14:10.740 --> 00:14:16.100 Sharing burdens to one another, and you will be healed and lighten your burden. 00:14:16.780 --> 00:14:26.140 So, over the years, I've found a few safe places, even some online, which we'll get into the past three years. 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:28.300 I go to a little church called Saddleback. 00:14:28.660 --> 00:14:30.040 Some of you may have heard of it. 00:14:31.460 --> 00:14:35.400 And I've been part of the mental health ministry at that church. 00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:42.160 And I host a Zoom-based support group where we meet every week for an hour. 00:14:43.000 --> 00:14:46.100 And people feel cared for and supported because it's a safe place. 00:14:46.880 --> 00:14:47.980 And so, that's been really cool. 00:14:47.980 --> 00:15:02.940 And I think there's so many opportunities in the online space because people are more open because of a sense of intimacy that when you're in person, you just don't know. 00:15:03.200 --> 00:15:04.980 People take a little more risk. 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:11.900 And because we don't yet know each other, then we're like, well, what's there to lose? 00:15:12.120 --> 00:15:13.440 I'll share a little bit more online. 00:15:13.960 --> 00:15:21.860 And certainly, there's good guidelines on how to facilitate the safe space to make sure it continues to be safe online. 00:15:22.340 --> 00:15:28.180 And there's plenty of online spaces where it's not safe, what you call it, Twitter, X, or Reddit, or so on. 00:15:30.960 --> 00:15:38.540 Do you find, and I know you've been doing digital a long time, you were engaging in Twitter. 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:39.980 It was funny. 00:15:39.980 --> 00:15:48.360 Actually, my first time I met you, I was with Eric Geiger, who's now lead pastor over at another small church, Mariners, right down the street from you. 00:15:49.260 --> 00:15:56.760 And Geiger, this is years ago, he was executive pastor at a church here in Miami, and Geiger was infatuated with you. 00:15:57.300 --> 00:16:04.080 Like, he could not believe that you had a mega church of people, over 1,000 people following you on Twitter. 00:16:04.760 --> 00:16:09.060 Like, Jeff, there's a mega church of people that are listening to what this guy, DJ Chong, says. 00:16:09.340 --> 00:16:12.520 Can you imagine a mega church listening to people online? 00:16:12.700 --> 00:16:15.540 Like, in his mind, you were like the first Christian influencer or something. 00:16:16.920 --> 00:16:19.160 But you've been doing this a long time. 00:16:19.700 --> 00:16:25.140 Do you find that people are open to talking digitally? 00:16:25.880 --> 00:16:32.460 Like, you know, I know some people are hesitant to do recovery-type conversations online. 00:16:32.460 --> 00:16:35.140 They view it from a negative perspective. 00:16:35.960 --> 00:16:39.520 But you've been comfortable discussing it in your safe spaces digitally. 00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:44.400 Like, do you find that that's trustworthy information, that it's healthy? 00:16:44.560 --> 00:16:51.020 Like, how do you manage detention or have the conversation when people are like, no, you can't do recovery in digital space. 00:16:51.080 --> 00:16:52.020 It has to only be visited. 00:16:55.020 --> 00:16:56.360 Boy, that's a lot of impact. 00:16:56.360 --> 00:17:04.460 Because the magic and the opportunity of online is it's a wild, wild west, and it's wide open. 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:19.640 So there's so much tension in the online space, and it's the loudest and the ugliest voices that have been polarizing and painted the online space as something dark and nasty and shouting. 00:17:20.360 --> 00:17:30.760 But with the right people and the right use of technology, you can create safe spaces that can be very intimate and very powerful. 00:17:31.740 --> 00:17:37.740 But those safe spaces are not just done in the wide open internet. 00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:49.040 So I don't think you can create safe spaces in the public Twittersphere or I don't know if they call it Xphere or Reddit. 00:17:49.040 --> 00:17:55.300 But I think you can create it on a private Facebook group, and I can give you examples of that. 00:17:55.420 --> 00:17:59.820 I'll give you two concrete examples because I've been part of them, and they've worked. 00:18:00.660 --> 00:18:03.320 A private Facebook group can do it. 00:18:03.620 --> 00:18:05.840 A Zoom meeting can do it. 00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:18.900 Reddit, if you have that privacy or membership entry point, then that gives you the technical guardrails to create that safe space because you don't want trolls coming in and out. 00:18:19.040 --> 00:18:26.960 So, for example, in VR space, that would be challenging to do it because in rec room or whatever, trolls just come in there. 00:18:27.220 --> 00:18:28.060 So you don't want that. 00:18:28.840 --> 00:18:35.120 But technology can also allow memberships, and people can come in after you approve them. 00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:39.560 I don't know Discord well enough if you can control access to some things. 00:18:40.080 --> 00:18:41.520 I know in Mighty Network you could. 00:18:42.380 --> 00:18:43.780 So two examples I'll mention. 00:18:44.120 --> 00:18:47.400 One is called Subtle Asian Mental Health. 00:18:48.040 --> 00:18:58.140 It's a private Facebook group with 61,000 members, volunteer-run, and it's been around for about three or four years. 00:18:58.600 --> 00:19:12.060 It's all kinds of Asian Americans around the world, English-speaking, and people can post anonymous questions and get peer support from other Asian Americans who have shared their mental health reality. 00:19:12.060 --> 00:19:21.280 And we do moderate the group with volunteers, and so the content is vetted, and we don't have triggers. 00:19:22.180 --> 00:19:26.160 And so it's become a safe space for 61,000 members. 00:19:26.320 --> 00:19:28.100 I don't know if you like it for Christians. 00:19:29.140 --> 00:19:36.060 There's a few small ones for Christians, but it takes a little bit of manpower to really shepherd that space. 00:19:36.060 --> 00:19:51.680 And there's a Christian Mental Health Facebook group on Facebook that has maybe 1,000 people, but there's not the ongoing conversation like the Subtle Asian Mental Health with 61,000 members a week at least 10 to 20 posts a day. 00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:57.440 So once you have a critical mass and a momentum, then it feels like it's a lively place instead of a ghost town. 00:19:58.280 --> 00:20:03.480 Now, the other example I'll share is what I participated in at Saddleback Church. 00:20:03.480 --> 00:20:05.340 We have a Zoom support group. 00:20:06.060 --> 00:20:08.900 That's been meeting since September of 2021. 00:20:09.860 --> 00:20:26.060 And we've gone through seven rounds of a workbook called Living Grace, which starting August 1st will be free, a free digital workbook about mental health and faith. 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:29.420 Living Grace is the name of the book. 00:20:29.420 --> 00:20:32.020 And when you have show notes, I'll send the links to you. 00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:38.220 And it's a 16-week workbook that integrates faith, facts, and future. 00:20:38.840 --> 00:20:43.880 Faith is a spiritual devotion, grounds us, grounds our mental health realities in scripture. 00:20:44.660 --> 00:20:47.960 And scripture's got plenty to say of our human condition. 00:20:48.600 --> 00:20:56.600 And when it comes to mental health, they don't use that phrase, but, you know, there's anxiety, there's worry, there's suicidal ideation, depression, grief, it's suffering. 00:20:56.840 --> 00:20:58.260 It's all throughout the scripture. 00:20:58.440 --> 00:20:59.380 It's part of our human condition. 00:21:00.240 --> 00:21:04.060 But our vernacular lingua franca is mental health. 00:21:05.060 --> 00:21:08.880 And so grounding in scripture, facts is neuroscience. 00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:21.080 So the person that designed the curriculum, Matthew Stanford and Joe Padilla, really wanted to ground it in psychology and science so that we understand what's going on in our mind and our relationships and our emotions. 00:21:22.000 --> 00:21:31.600 And then future, so three Fs because they like to alliterate, future is practical skills that we can practice as a part of our mental and emotional health. 00:21:31.600 --> 00:21:39.240 Because mental health is not something you can just think your way out of, you need to engage your body and develop some new practices. 00:21:39.520 --> 00:21:50.820 So those are two excellent examples of what we can do in online spaces to create safe places for supporting one another and caring for one another in mental health. 00:21:52.860 --> 00:21:53.640 That's awesome. 00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:55.600 I absolutely love that. 00:21:55.680 --> 00:21:59.900 And I'm going to have to check out that whenever it's available, because that's going to be so cool. 00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:23.000 I would love to hear, I think I could probably sit and listen for hours or days of stories you have, but I would love to hear like a story of how walking through with someone in maybe even a religious space in a church or on digitally ministry, how that like successfully happened. 00:22:23.280 --> 00:22:31.160 And then even on the flip side, what have you seen where it's like went downhill real quick and it's not been helpful to the other person? 00:22:31.300 --> 00:22:33.200 Maybe two kind of stories like that. 00:22:34.240 --> 00:22:50.580 I'll take the second one first because we've been spared and blessed from having to deal with the really challenging cases, which is kind of the initial fear that many of us have when we try to enter into the mental health care and support space. 00:22:50.800 --> 00:23:06.280 Oh, what if this or this happened and we can't handle it, and yes, we want to go in discerning and prepare, but those edge cases are rare that you do want to be prepared. 00:23:06.920 --> 00:23:17.280 So in most cases, 90%, 95%, people just need care and support, prayer, someone that can listen empathetically and nonjudgmental and validate their experiences. 00:23:17.280 --> 00:23:34.600 We all have feelings and thoughts that fly by in our mental radar, and just as in Asian culture and perhaps in non-Asian cultures too, we say don't trust our feelings, but we also can't trust our thoughts. 00:23:34.880 --> 00:23:43.620 Not all of them, but we do need discernment as we experience all of life, and that's where the Word of God and the Spirit of God really helps us. 00:23:44.000 --> 00:24:13.060 But where we've seen amazing stories of healing and support, I'm actually in conversation with a lady in North Carolina who has had so many mental and physical challenges that over the past three years, because we've held this space for her online, she's been able to experience healing and strength and hope and temper, 00:24:13.060 --> 00:24:17.760 and now she's moving into her purpose. 00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:39.720 Just this past week, we had a sermon from Artie Kendall, the Reverend Dr. Artie Kendall from Britain was a speaker at Saddleback Church, and he talked about total forgiveness, and that really touched our heart to release some of the pains of the past so that she can continue her healing journey. 00:24:39.720 --> 00:24:53.720 And then she's had ups and downs, as many of us have up and down when we live with some of the more mental health challenges, and we've been able to pray and support her through some of those. 00:24:53.720 --> 00:25:01.960 So through the darkest times, we are there with her just as Jesus is with her through the dark valleys, and we're not alone. 00:25:01.960 --> 00:25:19.960 So I'll summarize it this way, the most valuable thing when it comes to having support groups, in addition to professional therapy or medication, is that having a support group helps us to know we're not alone. 00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:41.820 And when we know we're not alone, not just with an invisible God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit and all that is true and grounded, having a fellow brother and sister, a human person that we can talk to, just adds to the care and support we need to go through this thing. 00:25:41.820 --> 00:25:55.820 And the way I say it is, I can use all the help I can give, so I need the Trinity, I need the Church, I need my online relationships, I need my in-person relationships, I need healthy eating, exercise, sleep. 00:25:55.820 --> 00:25:59.820 Sleep, I sleep seven, I sleep nine hours a night plus a nap. 00:25:59.820 --> 00:26:01.820 So that's what my body needs. 00:26:01.820 --> 00:26:08.820 That's what my body needs, which means I have to be very efficient with my waking hours to do what I do. 00:26:08.820 --> 00:26:16.820 Yeah, I love that you brought that up, because the whole person is so important when we deal with mental health and our spiritual, physical, all this. 00:26:16.820 --> 00:26:18.820 Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. 00:26:18.820 --> 00:26:22.820 Jeff, you're holding the mic, you have a question or a comment. 00:26:22.820 --> 00:26:25.820 Yeah, this is my comfortable position, holding it. 00:26:25.820 --> 00:26:28.820 I'm actually getting a new arm, and so I'm gonna miss this. 00:26:28.820 --> 00:26:35.820 If you're watching on YouTube, if I screw up, I'll move my hand down and these bars actually pinch, and I've pinched my fingers a couple of times there. 00:26:35.820 --> 00:26:46.820 Hey, DJ, if you can adjust your mic on your head a little bit, I think it's rubbing on the skin and giving us some rubbing noise. 00:26:46.820 --> 00:26:51.820 Maybe try that and get it into a different spot, or maybe it's your collar, but we'll just be sensitive to that. 00:26:51.820 --> 00:26:52.820 It is my collar. 00:26:52.820 --> 00:26:54.820 You'll have to edit. 00:26:54.820 --> 00:26:56.820 Yeah, we'll see what we can do. 00:26:56.820 --> 00:26:57.820 Fix it in post. 00:26:57.820 --> 00:26:58.820 Let me ask. 00:26:58.820 --> 00:26:59.820 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:26:59.820 --> 00:27:00.820 Andy Mage. 00:27:00.820 --> 00:27:01.820 It's Andy's problem. 00:27:01.820 --> 00:27:03.820 He'll have to deal with it. 00:27:03.820 --> 00:27:20.820 So, do you feel like, and now you're at Saddleback, you know, creators of Celebrate Recovery, Kay Warren, I know recovery mental health was a big deal for her when Rick and Kay were there at the church. 00:27:20.820 --> 00:27:31.820 Do you feel like the, so mental health is a big deal for Saddleback, historically, and I assume that legacy is still moving forward with the new leadership that is there. 00:27:31.820 --> 00:27:36.820 When you look at the church in general, is the church still receptive? 00:27:36.820 --> 00:27:43.820 I know during COVID, it felt like a mental health was all the rage because everybody was in lockdown and was freaking out. 00:27:43.820 --> 00:27:48.820 You know, the push is for everybody to get back to normal, whatever normal means. 00:27:48.820 --> 00:27:54.820 Is the church in general, are they receptive to ideas about mental health still? 00:27:54.820 --> 00:28:01.820 Is there challenges and negativity towards that or, or agnosticism, not wanting anything to do with it? 00:28:01.820 --> 00:28:04.820 Like what's, what's a temperature check for the church in 2024? 00:28:06.820 --> 00:28:08.820 Well, let me zoom out first. 00:28:08.820 --> 00:28:14.820 Um, the latest research had been focused on the impact of COVID. 00:28:14.820 --> 00:28:23.820 So that's the hard data from surveys in terms of how the church was responding to COVID and mental health. 00:28:23.820 --> 00:28:42.820 And it's kind of a coin toss about 50% of Christian churches are anti-psychology because that's been the history of psychology that, uh, because some of it was founded on humanistic, um, research and theories. 00:28:42.820 --> 00:28:50.820 There's a reaction from more conservative Christians against, uh, mental health categories. 00:28:50.820 --> 00:29:02.820 So there's a significant movement of networks and platforms and teachings that are called biblical counseling, where the Bible is sufficient for everything we need. 00:29:02.820 --> 00:29:03.820 So we don't need psychology. 00:29:03.820 --> 00:29:10.820 And so there are churches like that that are against using mental health categories and languages and diagnoses. 00:29:10.820 --> 00:29:18.820 And so any challenge we face with depression, anxiety, and so on is just a spiritual problem. 00:29:18.820 --> 00:29:33.820 Now, some people are helped with that minimalistic approach, but I know and believe many people are not helped with just a small approach to mental health challenges. 00:29:33.820 --> 00:29:45.820 And so maybe half the church are more open to integrated approach where faith is a resource for mental health treatment and recovery. 00:29:45.820 --> 00:29:54.820 I'm working, I'm working, I'm working, I'm working and connecting with people in both secular spaces, non-faith spaces, as well as faith spaces. 00:29:54.820 --> 00:30:08.820 And what's surprising is non-faith, non-Christian people are more open to faith and spirituality as a resource and as a support for mental health recovery than some pastors. 00:30:08.820 --> 00:30:15.820 It's kind of backwards in my book, but whatever the case may be. 00:30:15.820 --> 00:30:22.820 Um, some churches are not receptive, but some are, uh, the crisis, the mental health crisis. 00:30:22.820 --> 00:30:26.820 I'll use the word crisis epidemic is so big that there's so much work to do. 00:30:26.820 --> 00:30:37.820 And churches are generally speaking are not as engaged as they could be because there's so many programs that churches are more concerned about, whether it's children's ministry, youth ministry. 00:30:37.820 --> 00:30:45.820 Uh, celebrate recovery, the weekend worship, small groups, and just keeping the church running. 00:30:45.820 --> 00:30:54.820 So mental health tends to take a back seat, even though mental health challenges affect at least 20% of our general population. 00:30:54.820 --> 00:30:57.820 And people in church are just as human as everybody else. 00:30:57.820 --> 00:31:06.820 So, you know, 20% of people in your church, and if they're not struggling, then they probably know someone who's struggling with friends and families. 00:31:06.820 --> 00:31:13.820 And so, uh, some of the thought leaders have recognized that mental health is the greatest mission field. 00:31:13.820 --> 00:31:14.820 It's the greatest ministry. 00:31:14.820 --> 00:31:30.820 It's the greatest felt need that the church can take bold step in caring and supporting for people without necessarily getting people through professional training that takes two to four years of graduate studies and thousands of hours of supervision. 00:31:30.820 --> 00:31:44.820 And the living grace curriculum that I mentioned has an online training that just takes 45 minutes to train up group leaders that can facilitate a support group, whether online or in person. 00:31:44.820 --> 00:31:59.820 And the first two times I did the group, I literally just read the workbook word for word to test if the curriculum could stand on its own. 00:31:59.820 --> 00:32:11.820 I've been able to train up two or three other co-hosts and it's helped people experience care support over the years. 00:32:11.820 --> 00:32:12.820 Yeah. 00:32:12.820 --> 00:32:13.820 I can't wait to see that. 00:32:13.820 --> 00:32:14.820 Go ahead. 00:32:14.820 --> 00:32:15.820 Yeah. 00:32:15.820 --> 00:32:20.820 I, um, somebody kind of posted in here about, uh, somebody talking about, is it okay for Christians to take antidepressants? 00:32:20.820 --> 00:32:29.820 And I, I was kind of going that same direction because I know growing up for me, like I didn't feel like it was okay to say that I had anxiety or I dealt with depression. 00:32:29.820 --> 00:32:38.820 So what would you say to someone who's maybe listening that they're struggling with that or they're just feeling some sort of way and they're not really sure what's going on. 00:32:38.820 --> 00:32:44.820 Um, that is it okay for Christians to struggle with that, for Christ followers to, to struggle with those things. 00:32:44.820 --> 00:32:53.820 Um, and maybe like where you mentioned earlier, some things in scripture that kind of coincide with those, just a few of how that can help somebody. 00:32:54.820 --> 00:33:07.820 Well, medication is a, a challenging topic because not everybody is in agreement, but in the reality of life, I don't think we're in agreement on. 00:33:07.820 --> 00:33:08.820 Much of anything. 00:33:08.820 --> 00:33:20.820 I mean, whether you call it politics or nutritional tips or diet and certainly medication, um, is even more challenging that when I'm on medication. 00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:26.820 And so when you look at prescription medication, they always have this bigger list of side effects. 00:33:27.820 --> 00:33:29.820 Then they do the benefits list. 00:33:29.820 --> 00:33:32.820 So I'm like, why are there so many side effects? 00:33:32.820 --> 00:33:46.820 Uh, when it comes to prescription medication, not just psych psych psychiatric, uh, medications, but even your general physiology medication that, you know, the human body is very complicated. 00:33:46.820 --> 00:34:00.820 And so even the latest nutrition theory, they're recognizing that dietary and nutrition, um, uh, practices are very individualized. 00:34:00.820 --> 00:34:06.820 Each of us have a unique DNA and we respond to food and medication in different ways. 00:34:06.820 --> 00:34:15.820 And so what I've, I'm, what I'm learning about mental health is it's a very personalized and customized journey of wellness. 00:34:16.820 --> 00:34:19.820 Just just, and I think it's a reflection of our lives. 00:34:19.820 --> 00:34:32.820 All of us have to figure out how our body is designed, how well it responds to food, how well it responds to medication, how long, how well it responds to lifestyles and so on and so on. 00:34:33.820 --> 00:34:36.820 So the body is the temple of the Holy spirit. 00:34:36.820 --> 00:34:41.820 And by God's design, each of us have unique fingerprints. 00:34:41.820 --> 00:34:48.820 I think we have unique plans for health, mental, emotional, physical, and that's hard work. 00:34:49.820 --> 00:34:55.820 Um, we would prefer to have a one side fits all a solution when it comes to medication, everything else in health. 00:34:56.820 --> 00:35:02.820 But I think we're learning as technology is showing us customization and personalization is not a bad thing. 00:35:03.820 --> 00:35:15.820 It's, it's a human thing that we, we, um, we would do well to respect our unique design or unique God given design for taking care of our bodies and minds. 00:35:16.820 --> 00:35:17.820 I want to pull the thread on that one. 00:35:17.820 --> 00:35:20.820 That that's, you know, there are churches, I'm sure, you know, you probably know better than me. 00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:30.820 Um, recovery church is, is down here in Florida where our whole church was developed centered around, um, the, you know, focusing on, on recovery focus. 00:35:30.820 --> 00:35:47.820 And, and sometimes, um, you know, I, I say this with experience, sometimes celebrate recovery at a church actually, uh, unintentionally becomes a completely separate thing from the church where it actually is like a, a church in itself for people that are going through recovery. 00:35:48.820 --> 00:35:53.820 So is the goal to, to give them an opportunity for exclusion to do their own thing? 00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:55.820 Is it, is that appropriate? 00:35:55.820 --> 00:36:02.820 Is the, is the goal for unification where, where people are together, whether they have issues or not? 00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:07.820 Like what's, what's the, what's the healthy approach as we're looking at this? 00:36:09.820 --> 00:36:11.820 Well, I'm going to build on what I just said. 00:36:11.820 --> 00:36:12.820 It's a customized approach. 00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:20.820 It takes a bit of discerning of the people you have and the leadership to figure out what's going to work best in their current situation. 00:36:21.820 --> 00:36:24.820 Uh, so it's a longer, short term versus long. 00:36:24.820 --> 00:36:25.820 Yeah. 00:36:25.820 --> 00:36:33.820 Short term versus long term, um, short term, meet them, you know, individualized long term, bring them back in, gauge it necessary. 00:36:33.820 --> 00:36:38.820 Like what, how, how, how do we learn to discern? 00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:40.820 I guess maybe that's a better question to ask. 00:36:40.820 --> 00:36:44.820 Well, thanks for asking the question. 00:36:44.820 --> 00:36:46.820 I don't have an answer on the spot. 00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:51.820 Um, there are training guides and people that are in the coaching. 00:36:51.820 --> 00:37:06.820 So I'll, I'll mention one Laura how is in the mental health Christian space providing the kind of coaching and discerning to help people customize their mental health, uh, program and support group strategies. 00:37:06.820 --> 00:37:19.820 So there's someone who's spent, she's a trained counselor based in Canada and she does a mental health summit every year in October, uh, specifically to provide those resources and provide that coaching. 00:37:19.820 --> 00:37:23.820 So I'm going to hand the baton off to her. 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:23.820 Yeah. 00:37:23.820 --> 00:37:24.820 She's awesome. 00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:25.820 I've met with her before. 00:37:25.820 --> 00:37:26.820 She's really cool. 00:37:26.820 --> 00:37:30.820 And she's doing awesome things for mental health ministry, that kind of thing. 00:37:30.820 --> 00:37:31.820 Yeah. 00:37:31.820 --> 00:37:32.820 Yes. 00:37:32.820 --> 00:37:33.820 I love that. 00:37:33.820 --> 00:37:37.820 So I find it way more helpful to refer to a person than to a program. 00:37:39.820 --> 00:37:40.820 Yeah. 00:37:40.820 --> 00:37:44.820 I just find a programmatic approaches to be a bit flat. 00:37:44.820 --> 00:37:48.820 And when it comes to mental health, we really need that personal touch. 00:37:48.820 --> 00:37:59.820 So as I've started just a year and a half ago, something called Christian Asian mental health, because I feel called to really zone in on that niche. 00:37:59.820 --> 00:38:05.820 So there's mental health generically, which is huge affects 20% of American population. 00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:09.820 And then the Christian mental health space is still nascent. 00:38:09.820 --> 00:38:11.820 I mean, it's still underdeveloped. 00:38:11.820 --> 00:38:12.820 There's huge opportunities. 00:38:12.820 --> 00:38:19.820 And we could get into that perhaps on a future episode, but there's a conference coming up end of September in Cleveland. 00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:26.820 That will be the first national church and mental health conference that's going to continue on an annual basis, Lord willing. 00:38:26.820 --> 00:38:30.820 I'll start by Steve Gershevik of Key Ministry. 00:38:30.820 --> 00:38:32.820 We'll add a link in the show notes. 00:38:32.820 --> 00:38:40.820 And then I'm zoning in on Asian American churches because every Asian American church needs a mental health ministry. 00:38:40.820 --> 00:38:55.820 And the reason I feel compelled to serve that demographic is if we don't focus on the unique needs of particular groups of people, Asian Americans are going to be left out if you just go generic. 00:38:55.820 --> 00:39:00.820 And part of the thinking behind that is Asian Americans are the least likely to seek mental health treatment. 00:39:00.820 --> 00:39:06.820 Three times less likely to seek professional help compared to white counterparts. 00:39:06.820 --> 00:39:13.820 And we have the high suicide rates in several demographics, young adults and older people. 00:39:13.820 --> 00:39:19.820 And so the unique needs we have culturally in our shame based culture is just really dire. 00:39:21.820 --> 00:39:33.820 I think that's really important for anyone who's doing ministry in any way, like looking at your demographic of who you're reaching and they're going to have different things that they're struggling with. 00:39:33.820 --> 00:39:36.820 Like you said, the shame culture, they're going to have different things. 00:39:36.820 --> 00:39:44.820 So it's really being able to focus in on those specific ones are going to help so many more people and the people you're trying to reach. 00:39:44.820 --> 00:39:45.820 Yeah. 00:39:45.820 --> 00:39:47.820 And I mentioned Christian Asian mythology. 00:39:47.820 --> 00:39:48.820 I forgot my punchline. 00:39:48.820 --> 00:40:01.820 I was going to say, the way I want to approach the churches, and I'm happy to hear, Jeff, during our warm up on this episode, you were saying you're working with the Chinese church there where you are. 00:40:01.820 --> 00:40:06.820 I want to provide concierge service to the churches in developing their mental health ministry. 00:40:06.820 --> 00:40:09.820 I don't want to just throw them to a website or on-demand training program. 00:40:09.820 --> 00:40:15.820 Though I will do that as a kickstart of just being familiar with content. 00:40:15.820 --> 00:40:27.820 But that personal touch, and my theory on mental health, it's not just a chemical issue, it's a disconnection relationally that is affecting our mental health. 00:40:27.820 --> 00:40:30.820 So we're not just disconnected because of chemical imbalance. 00:40:30.820 --> 00:40:32.820 We're disconnected relationally. 00:40:32.820 --> 00:40:35.820 And technology is isolating us. 00:40:35.820 --> 00:40:36.820 It doesn't have to. 00:40:36.820 --> 00:40:46.820 But if we use technology properly, as you do here at TCD, you're bringing that relational connection, which helps our mental health and emotional relationship. 00:40:46.820 --> 00:40:55.820 And spirituality and becoming whole, really, we're becoming whole again when we connect as humans to humans. 00:40:56.820 --> 00:41:05.820 Is a mental health ministry, is that just coaching of mental health to get all ministries to understand better? 00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:07.820 Is there a mental health pastor? 00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:09.820 Is it volunteer-driven? 00:41:09.820 --> 00:41:15.820 Like, what would a typical church mental health ministry look like? 00:41:16.820 --> 00:41:18.820 Excellent question. 00:41:18.820 --> 00:41:21.820 And I'm going to lean back on my answer. 00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:24.820 It needs to be a personalized and customized approach. 00:41:24.820 --> 00:41:30.820 The reason we have so many different kinds of churches, each of them have a unique DNA and fingerprint. 00:41:30.820 --> 00:41:36.820 In the same way, each church needs to have a unique approach to mental health ministry. 00:41:36.820 --> 00:41:39.820 Now, there are some things that go common across the board. 00:41:39.820 --> 00:41:45.820 So, I have a very lean startup prototype framework model for mental health ministry. 00:41:45.820 --> 00:41:51.820 And they start with the letter S, because pastors like to alliterate. 00:41:51.820 --> 00:42:08.820 And pastors have to be at the gatekeeper, they're the shepherd, so they need to understand what mental health ministry is in their church before they can deploy and mobilize their volunteers to run the mental health ministry. 00:42:08.820 --> 00:42:09.820 So, five S's. 00:42:09.820 --> 00:42:14.820 Okay, we have ten minutes. 00:42:14.820 --> 00:42:18.820 First, they need to talk about mental health in their sermons. 00:42:18.820 --> 00:42:23.820 To quote the great Dr. Ed Stetzer, "Sermons stop stigma." 00:42:23.820 --> 00:42:28.820 And we need to be grounded in God's truth, who guides us into all truth for life and wellness. 00:42:28.820 --> 00:42:29.820 So, sermons. 00:42:29.820 --> 00:42:31.820 Second, stories. 00:42:31.820 --> 00:42:33.820 Stories of lived experience. 00:42:33.820 --> 00:42:41.820 People experiencing mental health challenges, but yet we have support and comfort through the scripture. 00:42:41.820 --> 00:42:42.820 So, sermons, stories. 00:42:42.820 --> 00:42:44.820 Third, seminars. 00:42:44.820 --> 00:42:56.820 So, bring in the clinicians and therapists from your local community to provide practical skills and understanding for how we deal with our challenges holistically, 00:42:56.820 --> 00:42:58.820 whether that's depression, anxiety. 00:42:58.820 --> 00:43:03.820 Those are the first two I would deal with because that's the most common things we all deal with. 00:43:03.820 --> 00:43:06.820 And then you can touch on grief, suffering, burnout. 00:43:06.820 --> 00:43:09.820 Those are common things of our human experience. 00:43:09.820 --> 00:43:21.820 And then you can get into more specifics like DSM-5 diagnoses, like clinical depression or anxiety disorder, bipolar or schizophrenia or special needs. 00:43:21.820 --> 00:43:26.820 So, that's sermons, stories, seminars, support groups. 00:43:26.820 --> 00:43:30.820 I would refer people to the Living Grace curriculum. 00:43:30.820 --> 00:43:34.820 I've got five or six on my website that are Christian and mental health. 00:43:34.820 --> 00:43:35.820 There's not too many. 00:43:35.820 --> 00:43:37.820 Fresh Hope is another popular one. 00:43:37.820 --> 00:43:44.820 So, support groups provide the care and support that complements what therapists and medication provide for the treatment. 00:43:44.820 --> 00:43:48.820 People don't need treatment just once a week or once a month. 00:43:48.820 --> 00:43:49.820 They need it every week. 00:43:49.820 --> 00:43:51.820 So, support groups provide that community. 00:43:51.820 --> 00:43:54.820 And then fifth S is Sabbath. 00:43:54.820 --> 00:43:55.820 God modeled it. 00:43:55.820 --> 00:43:57.820 It's in the Ten Commandments. 00:43:57.820 --> 00:43:59.820 And you and I know churches are overworked. 00:43:59.820 --> 00:44:06.820 So, we need a healthy rhythm of rest so that we work from rest, not resting from work. 00:44:06.820 --> 00:44:07.820 Sermon, stories. 00:44:07.820 --> 00:44:08.820 That's all that, Jeff. 00:44:08.820 --> 00:44:09.820 I see you taking notes. 00:44:09.820 --> 00:44:16.820 I'm writing it down right now on my whiteboard desk. 00:44:16.820 --> 00:44:21.820 So, sermon, stories, seminars, support groups, and Sabbath. 00:44:21.820 --> 00:44:22.820 That's five S's. 00:44:22.820 --> 00:44:23.820 You got it. 00:44:23.820 --> 00:44:27.820 What an appropriate ending here. 00:44:27.820 --> 00:44:30.820 You got your Rick Warren would be proud. 00:44:30.820 --> 00:44:32.820 You got your five points. 00:44:32.820 --> 00:44:34.820 They all align. 00:44:34.820 --> 00:44:36.820 So, so good with that. 00:44:36.820 --> 00:44:38.820 Man, this is good. 00:44:38.820 --> 00:44:48.820 I'm even trying to think like what's a good question to wrap up or land on. 00:44:48.820 --> 00:44:52.820 Do you want to take any from the audience? 00:44:52.820 --> 00:44:53.820 Sure. 00:44:53.820 --> 00:44:55.820 I would be open to that. 00:44:55.820 --> 00:44:57.820 How often do they need to. 00:44:57.820 --> 00:45:00.820 Flat cap says he's done Thresh Hope. 00:45:00.820 --> 00:45:01.820 Yeah. 00:45:01.820 --> 00:45:02.820 Great. 00:45:04.820 --> 00:45:07.820 How often do then, how do they need to flat cap? 00:45:07.820 --> 00:45:09.820 I'm not understanding that. 00:45:09.820 --> 00:45:12.820 Zach Valley, I'd love to hear about one of the practices DJ recommends. 00:45:12.820 --> 00:45:18.820 Maybe one of the basic entry level ones that nurtures mental, emotional flourishing. 00:45:18.820 --> 00:45:19.820 Hmm. 00:45:21.820 --> 00:45:23.820 Here's the most basic ones. 00:45:23.820 --> 00:45:26.820 Learning how to breathe deeply. 00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:28.820 Hmm. 00:45:28.820 --> 00:45:34.820 So Kay Warren's focus in mental health ministry is something called breathe. 00:45:35.820 --> 00:45:40.820 So she has these some zoom seminars on breathe called breathe. 00:45:40.820 --> 00:45:53.820 And she's focusing just as you mentioned at the top of the hour that I've really zoned in on a niche of a niche when it comes to Christian mental health. 00:45:53.820 --> 00:46:12.820 And one of the most biological, critical, physical, emotional, mental thing that we can do well for ourselves is learning how to breathe well. 00:46:12.820 --> 00:46:19.820 So when we learn to breathe deeply, rhythmically, it literally biologically resets our brains. 00:46:19.820 --> 00:46:20.820 Mm hmm. 00:46:20.820 --> 00:46:25.820 So we're having a panic attack or anxiety, depression. 00:46:25.820 --> 00:46:33.820 Walking and breathing resets our body physically, and that helps reset our mind and emotions. 00:46:33.820 --> 00:46:37.820 So that's something I've had to learn very basic, very practical. 00:46:38.820 --> 00:46:41.820 Within 60 seconds, 90 seconds, you'll feel different. 00:46:42.820 --> 00:46:42.820 So breathe. 00:46:43.820 --> 00:46:46.820 Yeah, we've got box method or whatever method. 00:46:46.820 --> 00:46:47.820 Breathing. 00:46:48.820 --> 00:46:49.820 We've got Megan. 00:46:49.820 --> 00:46:55.820 No, we've got, um, Mindy Caliguire coming on, um, five or six, I think. 00:46:56.820 --> 00:46:58.820 And, uh, she's with soulcare.com. 00:46:58.820 --> 00:47:03.820 And, uh, she's like, it's talking about rest and just from personal experience. 00:47:03.820 --> 00:47:09.820 She's done, um, so much for me on that space and, in, in helping me, uh, restore through that. 00:47:09.820 --> 00:47:11.820 And yeah, Zach's like, yeah, I do, do love that. 00:47:12.820 --> 00:47:16.820 Um, yeah, it's so good as, as, as we're landing the plane here. 00:47:16.820 --> 00:47:20.820 Um, let's get practical. 00:47:20.820 --> 00:47:24.820 We've, we've got, we're, we're mental health savvy. 00:47:24.820 --> 00:47:29.820 Uh, maybe someone within our organization or someone in leadership is, is not. 00:47:29.820 --> 00:47:32.820 We're currently, you know, in difficult situations. 00:47:32.820 --> 00:47:35.820 Um, you know, maybe a physical church pastor. 00:47:35.820 --> 00:47:39.820 That's not, uh, that's not understanding of, of some of this. 00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:43.820 How do we, um, start those conversations? 00:47:43.820 --> 00:47:51.820 How do we help others maybe try to battle through some of the stigmas and misunderstandings that they have from a practical standpoint? 00:47:51.820 --> 00:47:54.820 Well, here's as practical as I can make it. 00:47:54.820 --> 00:48:00.820 Pastors already know that their congregation and their community is struggling with mental health reality. 00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:08.820 Because pastors are often the first person that someone struggling with life is going to, or help. 00:48:08.820 --> 00:48:14.820 And their struggles are not just with getting the bills paid or relational conflict in marriage. 00:48:14.820 --> 00:48:18.820 They're experiencing suffering through depression, anxiety. 00:48:18.820 --> 00:48:24.820 So pastors already know that pastors are often overworked and they don't know what to do. 00:48:24.820 --> 00:48:30.820 They weren't trained in seminary or, um, counseling and psychology. 00:48:30.820 --> 00:48:34.820 They're trained in dead languages like Hebrew and Greek. 00:48:34.820 --> 00:48:40.820 But, um, so, so they, they know they need help, but they don't know who to go to or who to trust. 00:48:40.820 --> 00:48:43.820 And sometimes just go into a counselor. 00:48:43.820 --> 00:48:45.820 Oh, they might just be in it for the business. 00:48:45.820 --> 00:48:46.820 No, we're trying to help people. 00:48:46.820 --> 00:48:52.820 And so to speak to the pastors, um, is critical. 00:48:52.820 --> 00:48:57.820 And to show them the basic needs and the resources that are available. 00:48:57.820 --> 00:49:00.820 So I would refer to something called the sanctuary course. 00:49:00.820 --> 00:49:09.820 It's a free online video series, eight weeks with discussion guides, with stories, with science, and with scripture. 00:49:09.820 --> 00:49:12.820 Hey, those are all S's too. 00:49:12.820 --> 00:49:18.820 And it's a free course, uh, developed in, uh, England and Canada. 00:49:18.820 --> 00:49:31.820 And so, um, that would be a great discussion starter to get your church leaders onto the same page about the need for mental health and what the church can do. 00:49:31.820 --> 00:49:41.820 So rather than just sending this podcast, which is also a easy thing to do, the sanctuary course is a practical way to engage that conversation, 00:49:41.820 --> 00:49:47.820 to recognize the church's role in being a sanctuary, a place of care, support, and comfort, 00:49:47.820 --> 00:49:52.820 when it comes to not just suffering in general, but mental health specifically. 00:49:52.820 --> 00:49:57.820 So bringing your people together, recognizing that we're the hands and feet of Christ. 00:49:57.820 --> 00:49:58.820 We care for people. 00:49:58.820 --> 00:50:00.820 It's our call to care for people. 00:50:00.820 --> 00:50:03.820 Uh, Jesus cares about our wellness. 00:50:03.820 --> 00:50:15.820 And then the pastor can be a part of moving from pastoral care instead of them carrying the burden of pastoring the people by themselves. 00:50:15.820 --> 00:50:18.820 Move from pastoral care to congregational care. 00:50:18.820 --> 00:50:19.820 That's the move. 00:50:19.820 --> 00:50:20.820 That's the move. 00:50:20.820 --> 00:50:30.820 And then you've activated the lay people to care for your church and your community and everybody will be healthier for it. 00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:31.820 Awesome. 00:50:31.820 --> 00:50:39.820 DJ man, you have kicked off this season, um, incredibly, and I'm excited to see, uh, where we're going with all this. 00:50:39.820 --> 00:50:45.820 The chat has, has been blowing up with different research resources, talking about, uh, Jay sharing light university. 00:50:45.820 --> 00:50:47.820 And we're going to talk more about that later. 00:50:47.820 --> 00:50:53.820 Megan's got some experience with light and, um, yeah, we need to train our chat bots and mental health. 00:50:53.820 --> 00:50:54.820 That's, that's, that's fun. 00:50:54.820 --> 00:50:57.820 That's a fun conversation for a different day. 00:50:57.820 --> 00:51:01.820 Um, but, uh, DJ, thank you very much for, for jumping on here. 00:51:01.820 --> 00:51:03.820 Uh, but we're going to, we're going to land the plane. 00:51:03.820 --> 00:51:04.820 Megan. 00:51:04.820 --> 00:51:05.820 Thanks for joining us as well. 00:51:05.820 --> 00:51:12.820 And, and being a champion in this area and helping out with the church, digital podcast season nine, digital and mental health. 00:51:12.820 --> 00:51:17.820 Uh, but we're going to, we're going to land a plane for this one, uh, for a DJ for Megan. 00:51:17.820 --> 00:51:19.820 This is Jeff with the church digital. 00:51:19.820 --> 00:51:21.820 Thanks for joining on the podcast. 00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:22.820 We'll see you next time on the show. 00:51:22.820 --> 00:51:23.820 Y'all have a good one.