WEBVTT

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 You'll never know if you can be fully loved until you allow yourself to be fully loved.

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 I mean, so, you know, God fully knows you and loves you, so you've got to open up those

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 hidden parts of your life to Him.

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 And quite honestly, He's put people out there that will love you in Christ, regardless of

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 what's there when you're isolating.

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 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast.

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 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the Church,

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 but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions.

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 Is disciple-making possible digitally?

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 How should we approach the digital mission field?

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 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space?

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 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this?

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 Whether you're a big or small church, the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours

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 learn to be a multiplying church, digitally and physically.

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 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed.

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 All right, hey, it's episode three.

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 Oh, man, I should always look this up before I get started doing this.

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 Megan, I did it again.

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 Is this 310?

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 This is like the worst start to any podcast ever.

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 I don't even know what number I'm on.

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 It is 310.

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 I'm going to pretend it's 310.

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 We're going to say it's 310.

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 And if not, we're going to lie in the data to make sure it's 310.

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 We'll maybe skip a number here.

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 It's okay.

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 We've done over 300 of these.

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 Nobody keep them straight anyway.

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 It's episode 310 of the Church Digital Podcast.

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 Jeff here.

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 We're going to have a fun day.

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 It's going to be a fun conversation here.

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 We're in the season of digital and mental health.

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 And we've got a couple extra guests into the conversation today.

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 By the way, we are broadcasting this live on Twitch.

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 We're doing this season every Tuesday, I think at 1 o'clock for the most part.

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 You can go to twitch.tv slash thechurchdigital to find that out.

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 And more importantly, if you want to engage us in community and start talking about this podcast,

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 questions on this or anything else, feel free to swing over to our Discord community.

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 It's at discord.thechurch.digital.

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 Discord.thechurch.digital.

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 If you have a Discord account, great.

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 You can log in there.

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 If you don't have a Discord account, if you don't even know what Discord is,

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 come hang out with us, kick the tires, explore it,

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 maybe learn something along the way about how asynchronous community can work,

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 even in making disciples and disciple-making relationships digitally.

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 And so excited about some of the things that are happening here with the season.

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 We have been leaning on our co-host here, Megan Carter,

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 who is the brainchild of digital and maybe I should say the parent.

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 Brainchild would be the opposite way.

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 Who is the brain parent.

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 What is that saying that I just butchered?

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 I have no idea.

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 Who's the author, who's the brains, we'll say it that way,

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 who's the brains behind this?

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 Megan, thanks for coming back on the podcast.

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 Yeah, I'm excited to be here.

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 And we talked about earlier, you know, a couple episodes ago, inner critic.

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 Like every time you say those things, I'm like, my inner critic is like, no, no.

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 I just had a few ideas.

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 It's not really that big of a thing.

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 So when the inner critic, you know, barks at you, just say, shut up, Todd.

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 Go back to your corner.

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 We discussed that last week.

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 And it was funny.

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 I was actually, Andy Mage was the guest.

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 I guess a couple weeks ago, right?

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 And, you know, he names his inner critic Todd.

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 And so, therefore, I've named my inner critic Todd.

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 And I told Andy at least three times since that.

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 I've been like, shut up, Todd.

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 Shut up, Todd.

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 Nobody cares about you, Todd.

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 And so that's been fun.

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 So there are some other people we care about in this conversation.

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 We've got Nate Graybill, who, Nate, it's been a minute since I've seen.

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 We did a lot with Nate back in the leadership network days, I want to say,

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 in some learning communities and really has been outspoken, at least in our context,

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 about discipleship and recovery.

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 Nate is the executive director, maybe butchering the title of Regeneration,

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 a Christ-centered recovery material.

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 It's actually based out of Dallas, out of his church, Watermark Dallas.

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 And so, Nate, thanks for jumping on the podcast here and joining the conversation.

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 Welcome to be here.

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 I'm excited to talk with you about this topic.

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 And I'll tell Todd, in my mind, to keep silent as well.

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 So just shut up, Todd.

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 I feel bad because, actually, I do know a guy named Todd.

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 And, you know, he runs sound at my church.

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 And this weekend, I saw Todd.

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 So I stopped and had, like, a conversation with Todd.

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 And in the back of my head, the only thing I heard, I didn't hear what he was saying.

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 I just heard, shut up, Todd.

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 Shut up, Todd, while this guy's talking.

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 And so it's like, it's gone too far.

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 So Todd was the name of our founding pastor here at Watermark, too.

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 And so there are times where I have to tell him to be quiet as well.

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 Maybe a little nicer than shut up, Todd, in that one situation.

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 Yeah, with a little more grace than I'm probably capable of.

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 Awesome.

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 And if you're watching on YouTube or if you're listening on podcasts and you're hearing that laugh that is only one person capable of laughing that way,

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 JMO, the Jason Morris, is jumping on this conversation, too.

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 Jason is actually a fan of the Regeneration material.

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 Jason, you want to maybe talk a little bit about what Regeneration has been doing with you and with your church?

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 Absolutely.

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 The church here that we landed in in Georgetown ended up using, well, they're big users of Regeneration as part of their discipleship curriculum,

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 which when I went to their membership class, realized that Regeneration was not what I thought it was,

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 where I thought what it was, you know, addiction recovery.

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 And what I realized was they think of it as recovery as discipleship, where, you know, all of us might be addicted to people-pleasing or control or anger.

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 There's all sorts of fruits of the, you know, the fruits of the flesh.

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 We all know them, struggle with them, but don't consider them to be, we don't consider ourselves addicted to those particular besetting sins.

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 But as I thought of it, I was like, well, what's the difference between that and recovery?

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 And the truth is, in my mind, there isn't.

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 So that took me on a journey of exploring some of the things that I struggle with as an addiction recovery discipleship path.

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 And it's been really fascinating to go through with that particular lens.

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 And it's really helped my relationships with my wife and my kids.

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 And it's been really great.

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 I've got a meeting tonight, actually, that I'm going to be going to my Regen group.

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 And, yeah, it was a little jarring at first to, like, attend what would be considered, like, a 12-step program.

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 But put in the context of things that we all struggle with, it made nothing but sense.

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 So, anyway, I just wanted to be in on this conversation because Nate's here.

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 And he's the author of the book.

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 So I was like, dude, I want to be in on this.

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 This is going to be fun.

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 Hey, Nate, where do people find out more information about regeneration or, you know, getting regeneration connected into their church?

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 Yeah.

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 Well, if you're just a participant and you're looking for a place to go through it, you can go to regenerationrecovery.org.

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 And there's a group locator there.

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 We can find groups all over the country.

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 And some churches are running virtual groups.

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 So there's even a virtual search tab.

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 So if you're not close to a local, you know, chapter of it, you can join a virtual group.

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 If you're a church, you know, looking to bring it or even an organization, we can now run regeneration, you know, in nonprofits and other places.

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 If you want to find more about bringing regeneration to your organization, you can go to watermarkresources.com.

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 And that's designed for organizations looking to launch the ministry.

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 We've got full support that's free, you know, to end users.

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 We provide direct coaching to all point leaders, you know, the ministries, wherever they launch, whether it's in counseling centers or, you know, prisons or inpatient treatment centers or churches or even community centers.

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 And so all that's free, it's underwritten by watermark and just grateful to help, you know, be part of the work that God's doing in people's lives.

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 He's recovering all of humanity to the image and glory of God.

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 I mean, that's what we were created as image bearers.

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 And so all that regeneration does is identify those things, getting away your relationship with God and others and gives you the biblical path for, you know, dealing with them and bringing them before a cross and letting Christ deal with it.

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 So grateful to be a part of it.

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 Thankful that Jason's on the call and going through.

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 And I was telling everybody on the call before we went live that I probably need to go through again myself, you know, to pull back another layer.

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 So, yeah, it's deep stuff.

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 Yeah, I'm curious, though, with your, because you mentioned virtual, right, which to me isn't virtual.

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 It's just as real as everything else.

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 But, you know, that's a different conversation.

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 What, for you, are the differences between the digital expression of regen versus the physical expression of regen?

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 Does it work better?

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 I'm sure it works better in some ways and worse in others.

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 But I'm curious what your experience has been.

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 And then the follow-up question would be, how could folks that listen to this podcast get involved in something like that?

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 Yeah, well, you know, initially the criticism from our church was it's not real because it's online.

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 And, you know, I think when we started it during the pandemic, people that were forced to go online from face to face, that wasn't necessarily a great, you know, experience at the beginning.

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 But as we matured and it became and people started meeting back in person and then the online became an option for folks, you know, and they were volitionally opting in.

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 It really changed the dynamic.

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 And so we learned a lot about how to build relationships online, you know, going through.

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 We found that attendance was actually retention and attendance was higher because everybody's accessible.

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 Like people don't get caught in traffic, you know.

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 Oftentimes they're calling from places where they feel comfortable, like their home.

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 And whether it's true or not, they feel a little bit safer, you know, in a place where they're comfortable.

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 And if there's a screen there, you know, I might not bump into somebody at the store, you know, you know, that I've seen face to face.

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 And so for us, we give the first seats to our Watermark members who can't make it to our ministry night.

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 So it actually covers some logistics.

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 So it opens the door to people that can't make it, that are homebound or traveling or, you know, have jobs that, you know, move them or they move away.

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 But then it also opens up to people that can't participate because they're not close to anyone.

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 And what we found is that it's working great.

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 Like, you know, they've learned how to build community.

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 We require that people, in addition to the group, find a local mentor, hopefully within their church.

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 So we're creating, we certainly see the value of that personal connection, ability to meet one-on-one and not isolating the recovery.

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 We're going to talk about isolation here a little bit because a lot of people want to isolate recovery.

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 But we kind of force that through a local mentor relationship.

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 And then we train the mentors as well as they go through, in addition to, you know, the process there.

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 So you want a combination of both.

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 But what digital does is help cross some of those divides.

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 And, you know, we used to get the criticism that people aren't as authentic online or it's too easy for them to lie.

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 And I'm like, you know, in person, people hide behind masks just as much.

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 You know, it doesn't, you know, authenticity and being known is a personal choice, regardless of the environment that you're in.

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 And so, you know, y'all may be lying to me right now and I might be lying to you, but hopefully we're not.

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 We're being authentic and we can do that even face to face, you know.

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 And so hopefully we are authentic so we don't end up on the paper somewhere someday because that's what happens when you isolate is sin takes over, you know, starts to rule in your life and then affect others.

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 And we're seeing pastors fall left and right because they are isolated in the church.

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 But that's a choice.

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 That's a personal choice, even of senior pastors and elders.

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 You're not called to live that way.

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 So hopefully that rolls us into our topic.

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 That was an incredible transition.

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 I was about to give you credit.

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 So well done.

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 I appreciate that.

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 We are here in the season, digital mental health.

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 Today we're talking about isolation versus solitude.

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 And you know what, Megan, why don't, since you were the, whatever, the brainchild thing I was trying to say earlier and failed miserably, shut up, Todd.

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 Why don't you maybe explain here what you were thinking as you were describing this, the isolation versus solitude comparison?

00:13:47.960 --> 00:13:48.160
 Yeah.

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 So a big piece came from, and I honestly can't remember exactly where I heard it from, but it really opened my eyes of, because you think of isolation, isolation and solitude.

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 And sometimes people will clump them together, and sometimes people will clump them together or think like, well, I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 And I'm going to go off by myself.

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 Solitude is when you put yourself in a box.

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 Solitude is when you put your distractions in a box.

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 And that was like a game changer for me, realizing, oh, there are two different things.

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 And so I think that's where I want to start is, you know, what comes to mind when you hear those two words, isolation and solitude?

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 What do you see as the difference between them?

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 And then maybe just the first things that come to mind when you think of those.

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 Well, you know, I do think that isolation carries with it, you know, a component of detachment, you know, where you're trying to really break away from some reality in life.

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 And so for me, when I'm isolating, I've had a long day.

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 I go home.

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 I'll isolate by maybe vegging out on a movie, you know, and kind of escaping, you know, in some capacity.

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 I'm detaching from something that's a reality somewhere.

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 And honestly, you know, being in recovery, I honestly think that 99, actually probably 100% of the people, of the Christians that come into recovery and probably the non-Christians as well, they're coming in because they've isolated a part of their life, you know, from reality or from God or from others.

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 You know, we were created to be fully known and fully loved and to bear the image of God.

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 And so, you know, I think what happens is people start to struggle and they tuck it away and they detach a part of their life and they isolate that part of their life from the community and from God.

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 And over time, you know, sin, sin grows in the dark, right?

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 It gives birth to death is what the scripture says.

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 And so that eventually it will overtake them.

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 So I would think isolation, it carries that detachment from reality, whereas solitude, like you said, I do think what solitude is more of along the line of is removing distractions, you know,

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 hopefully for the sake of intimacy, you know, with God, like, you know, you see in scripture all the time that Jesus went away to solitary places, invited the disciples to go, you know, to quiet places,

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 just to be alone with God and allow him to speak into those areas of life, you know, where you can listen and be undistracted, not pulled away.

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 And so that's, that's probably the, I would say that in my mind, that's the difference between the two.

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 Yeah.

00:16:49.600 --> 00:16:55.260
 And I think that that's so important for us to be very intentional with finding solitude.

00:16:55.480 --> 00:17:01.980
 And especially, you know, as we're talking about people in digital ministry, we're connected to our phones 24 seven.

00:17:02.140 --> 00:17:04.680
 Like, that's the way we feel that we have to.

00:17:05.080 --> 00:17:13.560
 And so to be able to set that, I think we've talked about it before, like set the do not disturb or set a way to pull yourself away just for a little bit.

00:17:13.560 --> 00:17:20.900
 Because again, we, we gave the, we have the best role model in Jesus and scripture of him saying, you know, saying, I need to go away.

00:17:20.900 --> 00:17:23.360
 Like all these things, he has all these miracles happening.

00:17:23.360 --> 00:17:25.640
 And he's like, I've got to go find some rest.

00:17:25.700 --> 00:17:29.080
 I've got to find some solitude, find some time with, with his, you know, with God.

00:17:29.580 --> 00:17:38.360
 And that gave him the strength, the energy to come back, to be able to, to do the ministry he, you know, he's called to.

00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:41.220
 And I think we have to follow his lead in that.

00:17:41.300 --> 00:17:44.860
 And I think that that's so important to find those times.

00:17:45.340 --> 00:17:53.240
 And that's why I think this conversation is really important too, because it's, it's not just, just going away.

00:17:53.240 --> 00:18:04.000
 And like you said, like going and watching movies and just putting, you know, kind of not where you're thinking, not where you're having to like really be intentional, but making sure you're intentional with those things.

00:18:04.240 --> 00:18:06.260
 That's the, that's the key to it.

00:18:06.960 --> 00:18:11.880
 I, I've got a question on that and it is an honest question.

00:18:12.020 --> 00:18:12.980
 I'm not leading to anything.

00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:14.220
 I honestly don't know the answer.

00:18:15.220 --> 00:18:29.120
 Um, because Nate, you just described something and you mentioned something to Megan around, um, how we tend to escape with the, and the examples you made are digital ones.

00:18:29.120 --> 00:18:38.580
 So, um, is it possible that being connected to your phone could be an act of isolation?

00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:49.360
 One, um, is it possible, and I'm trying to think of a close analog in, uh, the way that ministry tends to play out.

00:18:49.360 --> 00:18:57.340
 Is it possible for public ministry to be an act of isolation too?

00:18:59.260 --> 00:19:05.640
 So I'm just, I'm asking the question because those thoughts, those connections came to me as you guys were describing it.

00:19:05.640 --> 00:19:15.000
 Um, because I love your definition, Megan, and it just made so much sense the moment you said it was, I'm putting myself in a box versus putting my distractions in a box.

00:19:15.800 --> 00:19:27.060
 Um, some, and I, I know this from personal experience that some of the most isolating times can be big public ministry.

00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:34.540
 Um, in the analog world, and I'm curious how that plays out in the digital side.

00:19:34.620 --> 00:19:37.280
 So anyway, I'm curious what you guys think about that.

00:19:37.760 --> 00:19:42.740
 Yeah, I think for me, you know, I, I personally think that people can isolate in any component of their life.

00:19:43.320 --> 00:19:53.040
 You know, um, you can do it in a big public ministry, you know, you can do it in a marriage, you know, you can, you can do it in a family, you can do it in an activity that you love.

00:19:53.520 --> 00:20:03.720
 You know, um, and so, and I also think that, um, um, I also think that you can invite God or other people into any of those arenas as well.

00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:11.420
 So I think that isolation is more of a personal choice, you know, to be known and loved in the environments that you're in.

00:20:12.080 --> 00:20:23.800
 And, and oftentimes things get in the way, like, especially with public, like I'm, I'm a pastor's kid, you know, um, and I've been, I've been now on staff here at Watermark for 18 years.

00:20:24.640 --> 00:20:29.080
 And, um, and then, you know, lead a ministry that's had plenty of leaders in it.

00:20:29.160 --> 00:20:45.360
 And I think even in my role, like there's a temptation for me to isolate, uh, parts of my life when I'm struggling, you know, um, because I want to keep up a certain image or because my role, or I don't want to be known.

00:20:45.540 --> 00:20:48.600
 You know, I don't want, I, I'm scared of the ramifications on that.

00:20:48.760 --> 00:20:56.320
 And that's even more so when you have a, I would probably say the bigger, the platform, the more opportunity you have to hide behind it.

00:20:56.860 --> 00:21:01.080
 Um, but being fully known and loved is your own choice.

00:21:01.480 --> 00:21:04.900
 God calls us, you know, to be fully known and fully loved by him.

00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:17.540
 In fact, in scripture, you see the apostle John and first John writing to the church and he says, the things that we see, we've seen and heard, we proclaim to you also so that you might have fellowship with us.

00:21:17.940 --> 00:21:21.000
 And our fellowship was with God, the father and his son, Jesus Christ.

00:21:21.060 --> 00:21:32.240
 So they're proclaiming the gospel to invite people into the fellowship and, and invite people in the fellowship of the Trinity, you know, to be, and he said, we write these things so that our joy may be made complete.

00:21:32.240 --> 00:21:37.920
 And he goes, this is the completion of joy is in the fellowship of God together, being fully known and fully loved.

00:21:38.020 --> 00:21:46.320
 And later on in that chapter, he goes on, you know, we're to walk in the light as he is in the light and the, you know, the blood of Christ, the son cleanses us from all unrighteousness.

00:21:46.320 --> 00:21:50.920
 So we're caught, we're invited into this fellowship of being fully known and fully loved.

00:21:50.980 --> 00:21:54.380
 And you can choose to do that at any time in any form.

00:21:54.500 --> 00:22:00.260
 And we can also isolate in any form and through any medium, um, at least in my mind, in my life.

00:22:00.260 --> 00:22:01.220
 So I can do it.

00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:02.280
 I can certainly do it online.

00:22:02.480 --> 00:22:03.540
 I can do it in relationships.

00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:11.540
 I can do it in any capacity because my flesh wants to distance itself from the resources that God's given me to connect with them.

00:22:12.200 --> 00:22:14.520
 It's, it's always pulling away from that.

00:22:14.680 --> 00:22:16.420
 Always is distracting from that.

00:22:17.620 --> 00:22:26.820
 Well, I mean, arguably, let me just ask, like, you can, you, my understanding here now is that you can isolate in a crowded room.

00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.040
 Like it's, it happens all the time.

00:22:30.680 --> 00:22:34.440
 And by being inauthentic, by putting up masks and fronts.

00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:53.500
 And, and so it's, it's not as much about being alone as it is, um, being disgenuine, which, uh, isolates who you really are in that moment and prevents people from a knowing you and be being there to help you.

00:22:53.500 --> 00:22:55.100
 Like, am I reading that right?

00:22:55.420 --> 00:22:56.240
 Yes, absolutely.

00:22:56.440 --> 00:22:56.940
 I mean, that's it.

00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:57.220
 Yeah.

00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:03.840
 Isolation is, is coordinating off a part of your life, if not all of your life, you know, in the relationship that's God's given you.

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:06.720
 And there, there's all kinds of distractions that compete for that.

00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:13.860
 I mean, Satan wants to throw all that stuff in front of you all the time, whether it's media, it might be relationships, it might be crowds, it might be position.

00:23:14.300 --> 00:23:22.940
 Like he's just trying to pull you off the track of that intimate, that intimacy, which is the thing that fuels really that encounter and joy in the Lord.

00:23:23.180 --> 00:23:28.400
 And actually it's that join the Lord that then produces the great commission you, you operate out of that.

00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:28.980
 Yeah.

00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:37.900
 I was going to add that, especially when you're in ministry, like it feels like you can isolate so much more in those crowded rooms.

00:23:37.900 --> 00:23:45.680
 Like you guys were saying, and part of it, I think has to do with, we feel like we have an expectation set upon us.

00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:59.360
 And so this is whether you're meeting with people in person or you have a presence online, and if people think, oh, you have it all together, you never have a bad day, like you don't have any of these things like that we all struggle with.

00:23:59.760 --> 00:24:10.720
 Then it's like, oh, how can I, you know, gracefully show that side of it, but also, you know, be able to be there for other people.

00:24:10.980 --> 00:24:21.180
 And I think that sometimes we think we have to be stronger than we are to say, no, I've got this, like I'm here for you and always being there for the other people.

00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:25.800
 So then yourself isn't, you're not getting, you know, that taken care of.

00:24:26.120 --> 00:24:36.460
 So you have to find, again, intentional ways, whether it's through solitude or through, you know, connecting with other people that you trust that you can, you know, share those things with too.

00:24:36.460 --> 00:24:54.820
 I think that's a big, difficult piece of being in any kind of ministry is finding ways to be able to share those things, but also not just like blurting everything out, because not everybody needs to know all the details of your life, right?

00:24:54.900 --> 00:24:57.140
 But you need to be able to be authentic through that.

00:24:57.240 --> 00:24:58.560
 So that's a, that's a hard piece.

00:24:58.640 --> 00:25:08.080
 And if somebody is, if you feel like you're being put on a pedestal of like, you've got it all together, it's like, oh no, no, no, no, I don't have it all together.

00:25:08.440 --> 00:25:15.260
 Well, you certainly need some people in your life that you're fully authentic with, you know, and, and I do think that there's a little bit of pressure.

00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:28.020
 But what's interesting is that, you know, I found that each time that a pastor or myself or someone chooses to be authentic with their struggles, it actually draws people closer.

00:25:28.160 --> 00:25:42.080
 It makes them feel safer, like they can connect, you know, someone understanding like they can't relate or you don't get me, or I need to put on, you know, I need to be like you, you know, that works against what the church is created to be,

00:25:42.080 --> 00:25:45.600
 because what they feel like people don't understand them in the church.

00:25:46.300 --> 00:25:54.180
 And so when reality is they're sitting next to somebody that's been through the same thing or a pastor who's been through the same thing, he's not even willing to share his, share his story.

00:25:54.860 --> 00:26:11.100
 You know, certainly I don't think that a pastor needs to share every detail with everybody in the congregation every time, but he certainly needs to have, be willing to let others that are close speak into those parts of his life.

00:26:11.100 --> 00:26:14.300
 And then at times widen the circle, you know, when necessary.

00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:17.080
 Yeah, no, I, I agree.

00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:21.640
 And I think that that's like something we can all share at some level.

00:26:22.240 --> 00:26:28.280
 I know that's a big piece of why I got so heavily into mental health things is because I struggled with it myself.

00:26:28.280 --> 00:26:31.480
 So being able to share that part of my story.

00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:39.100
 Now, not everyone knows every part of my story, but they know enough to be able to relate and be like, oh, yeah, I've been there too.

00:26:39.660 --> 00:26:42.140
 And I think that that's something, you know, really important.

00:26:42.540 --> 00:26:50.540
 And so it kind of leads me to my next question of, you know, do you have a personal story experience when you felt isolated?

00:26:50.540 --> 00:26:55.400
 And like, how did that affect you emotionally and mentally in that time of your life?

00:26:56.520 --> 00:27:02.920
 Yeah, I mean, probably my best example was, so I was part of the church here when we started up years ago.

00:27:03.860 --> 00:27:12.100
 I, you know, I really surrendered my life to the Lord, you know, several years before the church launched, the part of the church, you know, when it started, I was leading.

00:27:12.640 --> 00:27:13.800
 I wasn't on staff.

00:27:13.860 --> 00:27:14.580
 I was a lay person.

00:27:14.660 --> 00:27:25.360
 I was leading the ministry here at the church and then stumbled across some pornography and didn't share that, you know, with others at the time.

00:27:25.740 --> 00:27:29.040
 And a year later, I was back into an addiction that I'd had when I was younger.

00:27:30.040 --> 00:27:33.760
 And it's interesting because I still did daily quiet times.

00:27:34.200 --> 00:27:42.960
 I still journaled, you know, and I was completely detached myself, you know, from really what was happening during that time.

00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:45.540
 Not honest with myself, certainly not honest with my wife.

00:27:46.560 --> 00:27:48.500
 And my health got worse.

00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:50.160
 The way I related to people got worse.

00:27:52.180 --> 00:28:03.080
 And then, and then eventually, you know, I got online one night and saw more than enough to scare me and into reality and say, hey, this is not going to be the last.

00:28:03.280 --> 00:28:05.720
 I got to stop telling myself this is going to be the last time.

00:28:05.780 --> 00:28:07.160
 This is not going to be the last time.

00:28:07.400 --> 00:28:10.320
 If I keep isolated, I need to let other people into this.

00:28:10.440 --> 00:28:11.340
 I need my wife's help.

00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:12.600
 I need my church's help.

00:28:13.240 --> 00:28:14.800
 Took me a while to get to my church's help.

00:28:14.800 --> 00:28:17.300
 But, you know, I woke my wife up and told her.

00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:22.400
 And, you know, she was clearly hurt and upset.

00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:31.600
 She figured out a way to see all that I'd seen, you know, and then widen the circle appropriately biblically to say, hey, look, we need to go talk with our Pastor Todd.

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:33.040
 There we go again.

00:28:33.220 --> 00:28:34.160
 Our Pastor Todd.

00:28:35.280 --> 00:28:37.700
 And we can fast there.

00:28:38.100 --> 00:28:42.000
 And really, you know, the invitation from the church was to join a community and be authentic.

00:28:42.000 --> 00:28:46.140
 And we my recovery didn't happen in a 12 step program or anywhere else.

00:28:46.180 --> 00:28:48.280
 It happened in a small group working through scripture.

00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:58.980
 And we did an inventory on my life and uncovered, unpacked all that had been stuffed down and isolated and uncovered the root of my addiction, where that came from.

00:29:00.300 --> 00:29:15.640
 And and when I realized that my porn addiction was really about me receiving validation from others, I wanted people to, you know, to affirm me, to think, you know, to pursue me, to be exalted.

00:29:15.640 --> 00:29:26.200
 You know, and I was whenever I was afraid of failure, when I was not feeling affirmed in life, I would run to a fantasy world where I was always affirmed, always accepted, always approved.

00:29:26.300 --> 00:29:27.680
 I didn't have to think about anybody but myself.

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:31.560
 And so that's why that proclivity kind of worked for me.

00:29:31.560 --> 00:29:45.040
 But when I figured out it was an idolatry issue that I wanted to be worshipped and pursued, as opposed to me pursuing the Lord, you know, and trying to glorify him, it changed everything for me in terms of that heart shift.

00:29:46.160 --> 00:29:57.500
 And and so at that point, what was ironic was, you know, when we first came to our pastor and we said, hey, is there any other couples here that can walk through, you know, this struggle with us?

00:29:57.880 --> 00:30:01.280
 You know, he said, oh, this is a big issue in our church.

00:30:01.280 --> 00:30:02.860
 It's affecting so many marriages.

00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:06.080
 He said, we just don't know who anyone is because nobody's talked about it.

00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:09.780
 You know, and so we were literally the first ones to come.

00:30:10.420 --> 00:30:13.800
 And and and so.

00:30:15.700 --> 00:30:19.500
 And that was, you know, 24 years ago.

00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:25.760
 But so but this process of being fully known and fully loved by God's people.

00:30:26.340 --> 00:30:40.940
 And, you know, learning how to work through my emotions because I'd stuffed them, you know, I'd medicated them, learning how to talk about when I was feeling disappointed or sad or to journal or be honest about feelings towards God.

00:30:40.940 --> 00:30:44.220
 When I wasn't even feeling my feelings, I was escaping my feelings.

00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:49.620
 Like all of that was an encounter to be invited into fellowship with a living God.

00:30:50.640 --> 00:30:58.080
 And, you know, over the course of the next few years, I just journaled for years and then we started to share our stories because we didn't want others to feel like they were all alone.

00:30:58.200 --> 00:31:09.100
 And so that invitation that I talked to and talked about in First John, you know, chapter one versus three through four, you know, we just started inviting others into that fellowship.

00:31:09.200 --> 00:31:10.580
 And that's how all that got started.

00:31:11.100 --> 00:31:24.440
 And so all that to say is I still, you know, I still there's a temptation in me to one isolate from God parts of my life.

00:31:24.540 --> 00:31:27.460
 I'm just because I don't want to, you know, I just want to escape.

00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:31.860
 I don't want to I don't have to deal with things going on like it's just I enjoy watching a movie.

00:31:31.960 --> 00:31:34.220
 I don't want to have to deal with, you know, an emotion that's there.

00:31:34.300 --> 00:31:35.520
 Maybe I'm detached from it already.

00:31:35.520 --> 00:31:39.040
 When I come in, I've got fleshly desires in there as well.

00:31:39.040 --> 00:31:46.280
 And, you know, and and then even then, if I blow it, you know, I've got a group of guys around me that I've and my wife that I want to confess to.

00:31:46.360 --> 00:31:47.380
 But there's a temptation there.

00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:53.700
 And I, you know, if there's if there's a time when I've I've there's been two relapses over the last 24 years that have been short lived.

00:31:53.740 --> 00:31:59.880
 But, you know, you run through this process of, hey, is my position more important than my intimacy with God?

00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:02.200
 You know, this is God's ministry.

00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:06.220
 You know, this is this is his church.

00:32:06.780 --> 00:32:10.360
 You know, if I'm not the right person for this anymore and he's the right person in place.

00:32:11.120 --> 00:32:19.980
 And and so you come to a decision over, hey, either I'm going to be fully known and loved and authentic, you know, in my walk with the Lord and that or I'm not.

00:32:20.060 --> 00:32:22.020
 I'm going to try and hold on to this idol, which is ministry.

00:32:22.220 --> 00:32:22.660
 I need behind.

00:32:22.940 --> 00:32:26.560
 You know, you can you can hide behind the idol of ministry really easy.

00:32:26.780 --> 00:32:29.700
 And God wants us to to walk authentically with him.

00:32:29.700 --> 00:32:36.740
 And when that happens, there's joy and freedom and relationships and invitations into things that you don't even know.

00:32:36.820 --> 00:32:38.120
 That's I never got into.

00:32:38.860 --> 00:32:41.700
 I did not want my resume in ministry to be a porn addict.

00:32:42.120 --> 00:32:45.360
 That was not my plan, especially someone that wanted validation.

00:32:45.760 --> 00:32:48.020
 But where's there's no room for me in that.

00:32:48.120 --> 00:32:49.720
 It's God's story now.

00:32:50.240 --> 00:32:58.380
 You know, and now I get to be engaged in life changing ministry all over the world because I've just accepted invitations.

00:32:58.420 --> 00:33:17.900
 You know, and so I'm just grateful for the invitations that he's given me and pray that I wouldn't my flesh wouldn't take over, you know, and I pray that he would spare me because I'm certainly capable of all the things that that everyone else is still.

00:33:18.120 --> 00:33:25.340
 But I'm thankful that he's given me, but I'm thankful that he's given me 22 years of freedom in a place where I can be fully known and fully loved regardless.

00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:28.040
 You know, it's a privilege.

00:33:29.380 --> 00:33:36.120
 Let me ask, how do you, because I hear isolation, I hear being transparent and authentic.

00:33:37.460 --> 00:33:41.440
 I'm also a huge introvert.

00:33:42.020 --> 00:33:47.860
 Like, I just am very, and a lot of our digital ministry people are.

00:33:49.200 --> 00:33:57.540
 How do we gauge introvertedness compared to isolation?

00:33:57.760 --> 00:34:12.900
 Because there, you know, last night I was in, I was in a meeting and, um, uh, Andy and I were, was with a potential partner and, um, you know, Andy presented very authentic, very, you know, opened up on a lot of the stuff.

00:34:13.140 --> 00:34:17.120
 Um, honestly, it was the end of the day confession hour for me.

00:34:17.120 --> 00:34:18.100
 I was tired.

00:34:18.660 --> 00:34:24.700
 Like it had been, it was like meeting nine on a Monday and it was like seven 30, eight o'clock at night.

00:34:24.700 --> 00:34:31.240
 And I just like, man, I just, I don't have it in me to like really flesh out my soul at this moment to, in front of a bunch of strangers.

00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:43.700
 And so I, I pulled some punches and, uh, at the end of the meeting, some people, you know, graciously called me out and said, Hey Jeff, you were like kind of more business oriented than, than authentic in, in this, in this meeting.

00:34:43.720 --> 00:34:44.460
 Are you feeling okay?

00:34:44.740 --> 00:34:47.700
 And my response was actually, no, I'm tired.

00:34:47.960 --> 00:34:50.200
 I, I'm, I want to go like hug my family now.

00:34:50.260 --> 00:34:50.400
 Bye.

00:34:51.060 --> 00:34:57.920
 Um, but you know, and, and, and honestly, like in this, I'm, I'm kind of like half jesting, but half serious.

00:34:58.240 --> 00:35:01.720
 How much of this was, you know, one versus the other.

00:35:02.100 --> 00:35:03.520
 Um, I don't, I don't know.

00:35:03.540 --> 00:35:04.700
 Is that, does that question make sense?

00:35:05.060 --> 00:35:06.240
 It's a great question.

00:35:06.240 --> 00:35:16.720
 And I actually think it's a, it's a, it's a reality because I think some of the, you know, sometimes, you know, I saw, um, introverts really get their energy from being alone.

00:35:16.720 --> 00:35:18.400
 That's where you get re-energized, right?

00:35:18.880 --> 00:35:24.480
 Extroverts really get their energy from being around people and out and about, but I think that's different than isolation.

00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:37.240
 So, you know, um, so you can be an introvert and need time to recharge and recharge by isolating or try and recharge by isolating, you know?

00:35:37.240 --> 00:35:48.300
 Um, so, um, I would say, I would say solitude is removing distractions, all the things that wear you out so that you can.

00:35:48.880 --> 00:35:55.660
 Um, you can be alone with God, you know, quite honestly, it's, it's to be able to listen and connect with him.

00:35:55.840 --> 00:36:03.620
 And so that's, that's much different than I just need a break and to recharge and, you know, get away, you know, from people.

00:36:03.800 --> 00:36:12.060
 And so you can be completely introverted and isolate and not seek any solitude in the Lord, you know?

00:36:12.420 --> 00:36:18.040
 Um, and, um, and so I think there are two different things.

00:36:18.040 --> 00:36:22.120
 Like I think Jeff Reed needs to get re I'm, I'm borderline introvert.

00:36:22.220 --> 00:36:28.800
 I'm right in the middle, you know, so I can, uh, my wife is very introverted and I've got a daughter that's very introverted.

00:36:28.920 --> 00:36:32.240
 My wife would presume to stay home all day, all the time, you know?

00:36:32.380 --> 00:36:47.440
 And so for an introvert, um, I've got to set aside time to really focus on my relationship with God and not just isolate in, you know, by myself, you know, and try and re-energize other ways.

00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:55.800
 And probably introverts more than extroverts need to be intentional about moving towards relationships, you know?

00:36:55.980 --> 00:37:03.480
 Um, and that might even be scheduling it, you know, or setting up group times so that you don't completely isolate in general.

00:37:03.480 --> 00:37:17.460
 And that can be online or in person, you know, quite honestly, like, um, so, um, so for me, I've got guys that I meet with every week, you know, every Wednesday morning at six 30, you know, they're in my life.

00:37:17.500 --> 00:37:20.360
 And we meet every week and talk through all life and what we're learning.

00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:21.460
 We'll go through stuff together.

00:37:22.160 --> 00:37:27.320
 Um, I've got a, I'm, I'm borderline introvert, but that's, that's different.

00:37:27.320 --> 00:37:29.180
 Like I actually designate a time.

00:37:29.180 --> 00:37:36.460
 I learned early in my, in my marriage, we had young kids at the only quiet time that happens in my home is at five in the morning.

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:47.340
 And so I've gotten up at five in the morning every day for, let me put honestly, 90% of the days, you know, uh, where I, it's intentional.

00:37:47.700 --> 00:37:50.720
 You know, uh, just getting time with the Lord.

00:37:50.800 --> 00:37:51.880
 It's gotta be quiet.

00:37:52.500 --> 00:37:54.080
 It's gotta be a place where I can listen.

00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:56.620
 My worship style is contemplative.

00:37:57.100 --> 00:38:11.300
 So the best place for me to connect with the Lord is in my lazy boy, you know, at five in the morning when there's no other distractions for some people, because they connect with God in other ways, they need to get on their worship music at that time of the day.

00:38:11.580 --> 00:38:13.560
 For some people need to go on a walk outside.

00:38:14.120 --> 00:38:17.760
 You know, it's the things that stir your affections and connect you with him.

00:38:17.800 --> 00:38:20.640
 And so that's really what solitude is.

00:38:20.640 --> 00:38:34.100
 It's finding that place that God's wired you to connect with him intimately, you know, um, and be fully known where you can listen to him, receive from him, pour out back to him through whatever means is there.

00:38:34.660 --> 00:38:37.300
 Um, and, and that's different than isolation.

00:38:37.580 --> 00:38:40.080
 Like I am a, I don't want to make this about me.

00:38:40.260 --> 00:38:49.920
 Um, but like I'm, um, when I tell people I'm, I'm an introvert, they, they laugh at me because it's like, Jeff, you stand up and you talk in front of hundreds of people and you do all this stuff.

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:51.900
 And you're, you're outgoing and blah, blah, blah, blah.

00:38:52.180 --> 00:38:56.800
 All that's a defense mechanism that, because I'm a raving introvert.

00:38:56.980 --> 00:39:06.420
 And so when I'm, my extrovertedness, I last about five minutes and then I'm literally in the back of the room asleep unconscious because all my energy is, is spent as, as a result of that.

00:39:06.920 --> 00:39:14.900
 There are, I mean, there are seasons where, um, I'm very comfortable and open sharing and talking with, with anybody.

00:39:15.120 --> 00:39:17.640
 Hey, my life's an open book, ask anything, anything you want.

00:39:17.820 --> 00:39:24.320
 And, and there's, I, I, you know, lunch yesterday with one of these guys that, that holds me accountable and talks to me.

00:39:24.320 --> 00:39:32.000
 And, and, you know, I've got, I've got four of those guys in my life and, and as for a digital guy, all four of those people live in Miami.

00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:39.400
 And so I'm sitting face to face across from these people and, and having, you know, that level of, of intimacy, accountability.

00:39:39.400 --> 00:39:49.020
 And so that piece, I, I'm, I'm actually very comfortable with it being in, in, in solitude and connecting with others and connecting with God.

00:39:49.700 --> 00:40:01.980
 Um, it's, it's the, and maybe it's the, you know, last night I told Todd to shut up because of the inner critic after, after this meeting where it's like, okay, what did, was I actually too busy?

00:40:02.000 --> 00:40:04.440
 And I wasn't business oriented and I wasn't reading the room, right?

00:40:04.880 --> 00:40:05.800
 Was that justified?

00:40:06.000 --> 00:40:06.980
 Was that not justified?

00:40:07.520 --> 00:40:20.480
 Um, but I do, I, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm maybe complexing things, but I'm wrestling between how much of it is inner critic and how much of it is me having an issue that I do need to address.

00:40:20.680 --> 00:40:26.620
 And, you know, kind of navigating that, the, the solitude piece, um, I, I understand.

00:40:27.620 --> 00:40:30.880
 And, you know, I've made strides this year has been so hard.

00:40:30.880 --> 00:40:35.340
 I've made strides this year to, to get that solitude piece more in place.

00:40:35.340 --> 00:40:44.520
 It's, it's the, am I still isolating parts of my life, uh, in that, uh, inappropriately is, is some of what I'm wrestling with.

00:40:44.760 --> 00:40:45.200
 Yeah.

00:40:45.600 --> 00:40:57.080
 I think regardless of whether you're introverted or extroverted, you know, avoiding isolation is just being intentional about relationships with God and others in whatever environment, you know, you're most suited to be in.

00:40:57.380 --> 00:41:06.460
 So, and, and so I think those are separate, separate components, you know, as an introvert, you're always going to want to kind of move out of the crowd to re-energize.

00:41:06.980 --> 00:41:15.520
 Like I, I get the same way if I'm talking in front of a bunch of people all day long, I go home, sit in my chair and I'm asleep, you know, in two minutes because it's just war me out.

00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:20.980
 You know, I work with a couple of people where they're ready to go for another four days because they're extroverts, you know?

00:41:20.980 --> 00:41:33.360
 Um, but, um, but always just being intentional about, you know, the relationships God's given in your life to be, you know, fully known and fully loved in time with him.

00:41:34.260 --> 00:41:34.700
 Yeah.

00:41:34.780 --> 00:41:46.980
 I find it really interesting that, uh, for most people on this call, we are introverted extroverts because I am the same way, but there are times that I can find like, like regenerate.

00:41:46.980 --> 00:41:50.860
 Yeah, I can be rejuvenized by being around other people.

00:41:51.300 --> 00:41:54.320
 Um, but it's a brown, a certain group of people.

00:41:54.480 --> 00:41:56.960
 So it's, it's really interesting how those play.

00:41:57.180 --> 00:42:09.340
 And I think it, it kind of goes back to what you were saying, Nate, is like finding and knowing who you are, um, how God wired you, um, where finding ways that you do find solitude with him.

00:42:09.640 --> 00:42:11.040
 Um, so I love nature.

00:42:11.180 --> 00:42:14.640
 I'm one that does like to really find that solitude.

00:42:14.940 --> 00:42:20.900
 There's a little, um, lake that I can go to and I turn my phone off pretty much.

00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:22.080
 I can sit there.

00:42:22.160 --> 00:42:28.760
 I can read through scripture or a book and then walk around that lake, which is beautiful and gorgeous pretty much any time of the year.

00:42:29.060 --> 00:42:31.700
 Um, even if it's freezing, somehow it's still pretty.

00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:33.720
 So like go around that.

00:42:33.720 --> 00:42:37.540
 And like, that can bring me, I feel so much closer to God in that moment.

00:42:37.940 --> 00:42:40.160
 And that's the way that I'm able to go out.

00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:48.280
 And so there's days that I'm like, I can realize that I've kind of hit my quota for like people or, you know, just life and things going on.

00:42:48.280 --> 00:42:51.300
 And, uh, almost that like overstimulation feeling.

00:42:51.740 --> 00:42:55.000
 And then I'm like, okay, I, I need to go be outside.

00:42:55.000 --> 00:42:56.060
 I need to go do this.

00:42:56.060 --> 00:42:57.040
 And that helps me.

00:42:57.100 --> 00:43:01.260
 It also refocuses like how I'm thinking and perceiving things.

00:43:01.260 --> 00:43:03.000
 It gives me some, some time.

00:43:03.440 --> 00:43:14.700
 Um, so I would love, like you talked a little bit, but what are ways that you do find solitude or, or maybe you've heard of other people that they, they can find solitude in, you know, their own lives.

00:43:15.200 --> 00:43:24.700
 Well, I'm going to tell myself a little bit here and that I, uh, you know, I wish I would just practice the Sabbath more of what it was intended to be, you know?

00:43:24.900 --> 00:43:39.600
 Um, and so, you know, a lot of times I'll view my Sunday as a day or my, my Sabbath day, whether that's a Saturday or Sunday, um, as, as me time, you know, as opposed to God time and really be intentional about that.

00:43:39.600 --> 00:43:41.880
 I think God, why God commanded it for a reason.

00:43:42.500 --> 00:43:48.780
 And I'm probably one of the bigger violators on just not taking advantage of that invitation, which is really what it is.

00:43:49.600 --> 00:43:55.360
 Um, so I think, I think with that, I'll say is that I actually think you need to be intentional.

00:43:56.060 --> 00:44:01.020
 You know, um, I think at least my life anyway, I can't speak to others.

00:44:01.240 --> 00:44:09.800
 It's busy enough and there's enough responsibilities and tasks and people, people pulling at my time, whether it's at work, you know, or at home with needs and relationships there.

00:44:10.220 --> 00:44:14.260
 That if you're not intentional with it and not proactive with it, it's going to get away from you.

00:44:14.800 --> 00:44:17.180
 And Satan wants to isolate it to you.

00:44:17.180 --> 00:44:19.720
 You know, a sheep that's isolated is lunch.

00:44:20.040 --> 00:44:20.860
 That's what's going to happen.

00:44:21.040 --> 00:44:23.160
 It's going to get eaten by the wolf, you know?

00:44:23.160 --> 00:44:35.920
 And so, uh, you know, and that's, and, and, and so I think just a, a regular rhythm daily, probably a daily rhythm sometime, even taking daily moments, you know, uh, a weekly rhythm.

00:44:35.920 --> 00:44:40.860
 And then there are seasons where you probably need to schedule some time away.

00:44:41.240 --> 00:44:47.400
 And so, um, I went, uh, I'm, I've got a sabbatical coming up my first time.

00:44:47.400 --> 00:44:48.780
 And here is telling as well.

00:44:48.840 --> 00:44:52.520
 It's my first sabbatical in, uh, 18 years of ministry.

00:44:53.060 --> 00:45:00.860
 So, uh, uh, and that's partly, you know, our organization and where they were, you know, for a season and part and partly me.

00:45:00.860 --> 00:45:05.620
 Like I probably wouldn't choose to take one, you know, uh, because I get energy from work.

00:45:05.620 --> 00:45:06.620
 Like there's a part of that.

00:45:06.680 --> 00:45:08.060
 That's, that's a component of me.

00:45:08.520 --> 00:45:14.320
 Um, but, um, but a couple of years ago I did take a month because I was feeling very tired.

00:45:14.900 --> 00:45:19.560
 And what was funny is that I didn't realize how tired I was.

00:45:20.280 --> 00:45:24.620
 Um, so I went away to a place where there was no, no digital world.

00:45:24.900 --> 00:45:31.940
 Like I couldn't, I took my Bible, um, fasted for a couple of days and you see in scripture, God calls us away to do those things.

00:45:31.940 --> 00:45:34.080
 Like Christ did that all the time.

00:45:34.080 --> 00:45:40.040
 And those are the times where the spirit leads you in the wilderness for testing and vetting and all those things that he does just to draw you deeper.

00:45:40.180 --> 00:45:41.240
 So I took a couple of books.

00:45:41.480 --> 00:45:42.520
 I read a little bit.

00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:46.280
 There was a day, I kid you not, I'm a six hour night sleeper.

00:45:46.420 --> 00:45:48.480
 So I would have been 11, wake up at five.

00:45:48.580 --> 00:45:51.560
 And that's been my rhythm for, I'm, I'm now over 50.

00:45:51.780 --> 00:45:54.100
 It's been my rhythm for the last X number of years.

00:45:54.180 --> 00:45:54.740
 I know it's unhealthy.

00:45:54.860 --> 00:45:55.920
 It's the way my clock works.

00:45:56.440 --> 00:46:02.420
 And, uh, but on that trip, one day I slept 18 hours one day.

00:46:03.320 --> 00:46:04.660
 That's how tired I was.

00:46:04.920 --> 00:46:12.000
 And so all I'm saying is that it got away from me and I was in a very vulnerable position, I think.

00:46:12.240 --> 00:46:18.840
 And God just used that month to really draw me deeper into a relationship with him.

00:46:18.880 --> 00:46:20.260
 And now I'm two years removed from that.

00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:23.060
 I can feel, you know, life catching up to me again.

00:46:23.460 --> 00:46:26.480
 And that I'm like, oh, it's probably time for me to disconnect.

00:46:26.600 --> 00:46:31.900
 So when you've got a sabbatical or not, I think it takes intentionality of going away.

00:46:32.360 --> 00:46:36.160
 And hopefully if I'm listening to the Lord regularly, I'm listening to his call away.

00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:42.460
 I might just, again, push him off to the side and go, but I've got these cash lists, you know, they need to get done.

00:46:43.140 --> 00:46:46.900
 Um, but I think he's, he's there every day.

00:46:47.380 --> 00:46:51.000
 You know, he certainly called us to set aside a day for him.

00:46:51.160 --> 00:46:54.960
 And I think there are seasons where you've got to be intentional to pull away.

00:46:55.080 --> 00:47:02.380
 And that's probably true, not just in relationship with Christ, but in your most important relationships, whether it's your marriage or kids.

00:47:02.900 --> 00:47:06.340
 Yeah, let me, uh, let me pull the thread on, on pull away.

00:47:06.500 --> 00:47:11.760
 Uh, cause I'm, I'm willing to wager the majority of people listening to this don't have, uh, sabbaticals.

00:47:11.760 --> 00:47:15.640
 Like we're bivocational, non, uh, church staff people.

00:47:16.000 --> 00:47:21.780
 Um, I mean, I had a 15 year church staff career.

00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:23.680
 I never had a sabbatical, so I get it.

00:47:23.680 --> 00:47:27.060
 Um, congratulations, by the way, I, I, I honestly, I would love one.

00:47:27.240 --> 00:47:31.720
 Um, but what does, you know, let's get practical here a little bit.

00:47:31.720 --> 00:47:39.480
 What does pulling away, what does something like this look like for somebody that's got a nine to five jobs, a spouse and two kids at home?

00:47:41.020 --> 00:47:54.860
 Yeah, I think, I think, uh, I think first of all, communication, you know, listening to the Lord, communication, setting up a rhythm, you know, in your own family and life, I think is, I think is important.

00:47:54.860 --> 00:48:01.340
 So if you've got believers in the home, uh, just saying, Hey, let's, let's honor what the Lord's called us to do in terms of sabbatical.

00:48:01.720 --> 00:48:08.000
 I mean, in terms of, uh, of a sabbath of a sabbath, just taking a sabbath rest, being honest about a rhythm.

00:48:08.220 --> 00:48:20.500
 And then I think most people, not all, but the majority probably people that are on this, you know, working some of the time that you do, that your company does allow your vacation time.

00:48:20.500 --> 00:48:26.100
 Or even if you, if you take a vacation, maybe taking some time a day or something where you're able to get away.

00:48:26.400 --> 00:48:35.940
 So it's about really you being intentional and communicating with those that you love and then allowing those that you love that, you know, um, the freedom to do the same so that they can connect with the Lord.

00:48:36.780 --> 00:48:40.820
 So I just think you've got to be personal, you know, you've got to be purposeful about it.

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:43.860
 If you're not life catches up with you too much.

00:48:44.300 --> 00:48:51.820
 And so I think that that's really what the sabbath command is calling us to do is be purposeful, set aside time for the Lord.

00:48:51.960 --> 00:48:54.840
 So you can focus on him and listen and rest in him.

00:48:55.080 --> 00:49:00.500
 Like that was created for you as a respite to be fully known and loved and rest.

00:49:00.960 --> 00:49:01.080
 Yeah.

00:49:01.120 --> 00:49:05.080
 I love that you took it to sabbath because I think that's so important.

00:49:05.080 --> 00:49:09.920
 And sometimes we were like, oh yeah, we have a sabbath, go to church on Sundays.

00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:13.280
 And I work on Sundays because I work at a church.

00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:16.620
 So that's, I have to find a different time and be intentional that way.

00:49:16.860 --> 00:49:20.380
 And I think it's so just, I don't know.

00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:26.640
 It's really important to, yes, be intentional, but also like throw off expectations of what

00:49:26.640 --> 00:49:28.960
 you thought like the sabbath was supposed to be.

00:49:29.120 --> 00:49:34.400
 So we always have these like ideas of like, we're supposed to do this, this and this, or

00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:36.640
 the sabbath is supposed to look like this on a Sunday.

00:49:36.840 --> 00:49:42.400
 And if you work on a Sunday, or if you do your ministry on a Sunday or like digitally online,

00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:48.680
 like you're on Sundays or whatever day it may be, like find another time, like set aside,

00:49:48.800 --> 00:49:50.880
 put that in your calendar.

00:49:50.880 --> 00:49:52.740
 And if you can't do a full day, do what you can.

00:49:53.140 --> 00:49:58.720
 So I think it's like really taking ourself out of the box and saying, okay, let me, let

00:49:58.720 --> 00:50:00.560
 me just find what I have right now.

00:50:00.880 --> 00:50:06.160
 And if it's a few hours that I have this time that I can set aside and then it'd be intentional,

00:50:06.160 --> 00:50:11.080
 find specific things like diving deeper into the word or finding people who can help pour

00:50:11.080 --> 00:50:13.960
 into you in whatever way that may look like.

00:50:13.960 --> 00:50:22.040
 And I think really, if we can break up with like expectations in those instances, that really can change.

00:50:22.040 --> 00:50:28.800
 It kind of gives ourself permission to be able to do those things a little freer, to find that solitude a little freer.

00:50:28.800 --> 00:50:33.840
 And, and to remember, like you were saying, Nate, like in scripture, we see Jesus all the time.

00:50:33.840 --> 00:50:35.760
 He went and found solitude.

00:50:36.240 --> 00:50:39.920
 If you even go back to the beginning, like God had a day of rest.

00:50:39.920 --> 00:50:45.760
 I don't think that was like unintentional if for us to see, like we were designed to find rest.

00:50:45.920 --> 00:50:51.920
 And in the culture we're in, we want to go way too fast and we don't ever feel like we can stop.

00:50:52.320 --> 00:50:56.640
 So you're going to hit a point and either your body is going to shut down or, you know,

00:50:56.640 --> 00:51:02.000
 something like that's going to happen where it's going to make you find some solitude, but it might go into the isolation.

00:51:02.000 --> 00:51:03.680
 So that's where it's really intentional.

00:51:03.680 --> 00:51:07.600
 Be proactive when it comes to these things and find what works for you.

00:51:07.600 --> 00:51:09.840
 It's not going to look the same for every person.

00:51:11.600 --> 00:51:12.160
 That's great.

00:51:12.880 --> 00:51:13.520
 That's right on.

00:51:13.520 --> 00:51:15.600
 And yeah, I think finding what works for you.

00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:17.760
 How do you connect with the Lord is a great question.

00:51:17.760 --> 00:51:20.880
 And if you don't know, like there's studies that can help you kind of figure that part out.

00:51:20.880 --> 00:51:23.920
 But just, you know, what are the things that draw you closest to him?

00:51:23.920 --> 00:51:25.040
 You know, when do you feel closest?

00:51:27.760 --> 00:51:33.920
 There's a new phenomenon right now called, uh, raw dogging flights, horrible name.

00:51:34.720 --> 00:51:40.480
 But basically what it is, is because on airplanes, you have to be in airplane mode anyway.

00:51:40.480 --> 00:51:47.120
 If you haven't intentionally downloaded media ahead of time, you don't have any.

00:51:48.000 --> 00:51:54.080
 And what this new phenomenon, they say that people are just doing this now.

00:51:54.080 --> 00:51:59.040
 They're intentionally going on flights with nothing.

00:51:59.840 --> 00:52:01.280
 And all they do is stare out the window.

00:52:01.760 --> 00:52:02.240
 That's it.

00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:11.920
 And there's folks that just long for that time where there are no distractions because there's nothing.

00:52:11.920 --> 00:52:14.000
 Just a bunch of nothing for hours.

00:52:15.520 --> 00:52:31.920
 Horrible name, but I think it's a good principle, which you were talking about, where, um, a little bit of intentionality, you can find pockets of solitude for times of rejuvenation, um, if you want them.

00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:43.600
 And they can be directed toward relationship with God, which is a piece that is, um, more than just, um, like, unwinding.

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:48.320
 It's, it's, um, intentionally seeking the Father.

00:52:48.320 --> 00:52:52.680
 So that's one difference that I feel like most people don't notice.

00:52:52.960 --> 00:53:00.080
 They want to get away out of an escape, but they're not running toward God.

00:53:00.560 --> 00:53:08.320
 And what you end up with is just, um, the stark realization of how dark we all are when we're by ourselves.

00:53:09.120 --> 00:53:13.760
 So, or even taking time to, to listen.

00:53:13.920 --> 00:53:22.320
 Like, I think there's a component of listening because, you know, we, I think it's important for us to, to, to pursue God and follow God, but God's pursuing us all the time.

00:53:22.960 --> 00:53:35.320
 You know, if we just stop enough, slow down enough, listen, whether it's through his word or nature or, you know, um, a worship song, or I don't know whatever it is that connects you.

00:53:35.740 --> 00:53:39.720
 For me, I mean, honestly, um, I'm tied to God's word.

00:53:39.720 --> 00:53:50.540
 So writing down a verse was something I always did was I was studying right now with how it hit me, where my affections got stirred is where I started to write back love letters to the Lord based on that verse.

00:53:50.620 --> 00:53:53.800
 I've got journals stacked high, you know, of that.

00:53:53.800 --> 00:54:05.020
 And that's really when my, when my recovery got to the point where I was now working towards intimacy with God and my time with him, as opposed to just running through the, the steps of learning about God.

00:54:05.100 --> 00:54:11.400
 Now it's pursuing him, writing back to him, pouring out my heart, getting out of my head down on paper.

00:54:11.860 --> 00:54:14.540
 Like that's what stirred my affections for him.

00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:20.640
 So when I'm doing great, I'm, I'm writing letters to him and not things that I ever publish anywhere else.

00:54:20.640 --> 00:54:25.980
 It's just writing out how I feel, what I think, you know, praise things to him.

00:54:26.540 --> 00:54:29.880
 And I don't know, I'm sure there's a lot of people that do that.

00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:33.340
 Um, but that's the one thing that stirs my affections for him.

00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:35.700
 And so that's why that time in the morning works for me.

00:54:36.120 --> 00:54:40.800
 You know, when I'm doing well, I'm writing when I'm, um, and it's also hard for me to get started to do that.

00:54:40.880 --> 00:54:42.080
 I feel like there's a spiritual battle.

00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:46.460
 You know, it's easy for me to take that off my plate and just go through the motions.

00:54:46.720 --> 00:54:47.700
 That's not what God wants.

00:54:47.760 --> 00:54:48.380
 He wants engagement.

00:54:48.820 --> 00:54:52.860
 I don't know how much engagement I could do at 5 a.m. sitting in a lazy board chair with God.

00:54:53.460 --> 00:54:56.560
 Like, you'll get your rest there, right?

00:54:57.060 --> 00:55:04.320
 I rest certainly, um, you know, unfortunately it's, there are, there are days where I'm going to bed at 5 a.m.

00:55:04.320 --> 00:55:12.280
 And so like, I, I just, the idea of waking up at 5 a.m. to, to like have a, uh, that's, that's, God has not blessed me with that ability.

00:55:12.780 --> 00:55:14.020
 I'm glad he did you.

00:55:14.320 --> 00:55:16.580
 Um, but that, that's, that's not on my cards.

00:55:17.260 --> 00:55:20.480
 Well, I, I, I tell you what, this has been a great conversation.

00:55:20.620 --> 00:55:24.140
 Flat caps, uh, blowing up Twitch with a mouse emoji.

00:55:24.140 --> 00:55:26.420
 That's asleep right now talking about 5 a.m.

00:55:26.460 --> 00:55:31.620
 So, um, it's, we're, we're, we're feeling that, um, chats, chats been good.

00:55:31.680 --> 00:55:34.600
 Lots, lots of conversations, lots of people connecting with this.

00:55:34.600 --> 00:55:39.660
 And so, um, Nate, man, I want to thank you for, for jumping into this conversation.

00:55:40.500 --> 00:55:45.700
 Um, you know, as, as we're wrapping up here, Nate, any closing thoughts on your side?

00:55:45.700 --> 00:56:00.980
 Uh, you know, I, I, I just, I do think this, this thought of, you know, um, you know, I just, I just think that God's always pursuing, always waiting, always inviting.

00:56:01.920 --> 00:56:08.220
 You know, there's always an invitation to be close to the living God who created you for a purpose and a reason.

00:56:08.760 --> 00:56:10.900
 He's eager to speak into your life.

00:56:11.420 --> 00:56:13.320
 And I just think about that.

00:56:13.440 --> 00:56:24.540
 The sovereign God of the universe that created all of it, that created the hand wove you, you know, intentionally, purposely, fearfully, and wonderfully made.

00:56:25.060 --> 00:56:34.840
 Well, you were created to, um, uh, as the Westminster Catholicism puts, Hey, you know, you know, the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever.

00:56:35.400 --> 00:56:39.460
 Like he's created you specifically to bring him glory.

00:56:39.460 --> 00:56:46.360
 And, and, and, and, and not only that, but just enjoy the way he's made you, the way he's wired you, the way he's opened up life to you.

00:56:46.580 --> 00:56:48.660
 And so that invitation is ongoing.

00:56:49.380 --> 00:56:55.900
 And just know that Satan and the world is trying to pull you away and your flesh is trying to pull you away from that all the time.

00:56:55.980 --> 00:56:59.700
 There's nothing in your flesh that wants intimacy with God, nothing.

00:56:59.920 --> 00:57:01.440
 It's moving the opposite direction.

00:57:01.880 --> 00:57:05.520
 And so you've got to be intentional, you know, with those things.

00:57:05.520 --> 00:57:12.500
 And if Satan can bring something in your life, that's going to pull you away or distraction or some escape other than connecting with the Lord, he's going to do it.

00:57:12.980 --> 00:57:18.740
 But, you know, in that silence and rest is where your strength is going to be found and your joy is going to be found.

00:57:19.180 --> 00:57:21.700
 You can be fully known and fully loved in your relationship with him.

00:57:21.700 --> 00:57:27.340
 And quite honestly, with a few trusted other people as well, you know, that are the hands and feet of Christ in your life.

00:57:27.340 --> 00:57:41.800
 And so just accept the invitations and don't let the noise crowded out, you know, um, and, um, just know that there's a great opportunity every day, you know, to meet with him and then be intentional when you don't feel like it.

00:57:41.800 --> 00:57:44.260
 Like that's, there's just going to be times where you don't feel like it.

00:57:44.300 --> 00:57:44.820
 You're distracted.

00:57:44.920 --> 00:57:49.180
 You're too busy, you know, and you just know that that's competition for your soul.

00:57:50.120 --> 00:57:51.740
 That took a deep turn.

00:57:53.860 --> 00:57:55.260
 Competition for your soul.

00:57:55.400 --> 00:57:55.500
 Wow.

00:57:56.040 --> 00:57:58.260
 Uh, Hey, J Mo, closing thoughts on your side.

00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:07.440
 I'm just trying to process in my mind what, uh, we, we talked about how digital solitude, I mean, digital isolation can work.

00:58:08.160 --> 00:58:13.220
 Um, I still have a question mark in my mind, how digital solitude could work.

00:58:13.980 --> 00:58:16.120
 I, I, it's, it's interesting.

00:58:16.260 --> 00:58:19.240
 Uh, and, and I'm the guy who's always fighting for digital.

00:58:19.740 --> 00:58:22.860
 Um, you know, I have, I have conversations.

00:58:23.960 --> 00:58:27.660
 Um, I'm, I'm just, it's going to be, this is all about Jeff Reed for 10 seconds.

00:58:27.660 --> 00:58:28.300
 And I cut you off.

00:58:29.620 --> 00:58:35.360
 Um, but like I, I, I, Jason, I have solitude conversations with you.

00:58:35.420 --> 00:58:38.020
 I have solitude conversations with, with Andy digitally.

00:58:38.540 --> 00:58:41.000
 And, and those are, those are powerful conversations.

00:58:41.860 --> 00:58:47.260
 Um, I sat across from, you know, one of the men that I, I consider my pastor yesterday.

00:58:48.040 --> 00:58:52.800
 Um, and it was, um, it was a level more intense.

00:58:54.080 --> 00:58:56.000
 I, I don't, I don't know how to reconcile that.

00:58:56.140 --> 00:59:03.380
 Like, I don't know if that's taking a walk in the woods, you know, letting your feet feel the carpet, you know, whatever the, the, the, the visual is.

00:59:03.960 --> 00:59:17.080
 Um, I, I, I'm all for connecting digitally to that, but even going back to, you know, when Nate said earlier, um, hey, if somebody's going to do regeneration digitally, they need to find the sponsor in physical space.

00:59:17.800 --> 00:59:25.780
 Like, I, I, I think there's, I think there's wisdom in having groups of people you can connect with and utilizing the digital tools for it.

00:59:25.960 --> 00:59:30.260
 But I think there's wisdom in being able to look at eye to eye across from a Starbucks table.

00:59:30.900 --> 00:59:32.220
 Um, you know, it was so funny.

00:59:32.480 --> 00:59:42.080
 Uh, this guy asked me what my view of God was and, uh, and I, I told him the answer and he said, how long did you say that answer before you actually believed it?

00:59:42.820 --> 00:59:52.260
 Like he, he called my bluff in front of me in the Starbucks and, um, and, and I, I told him the answer and there, there's a long story.

00:59:52.300 --> 00:59:53.220
 I can get into that if you want.

00:59:53.640 --> 01:00:04.740
 Um, but the, the, the physicality of, of solitude is, um, is intriguing to me coming from a guy that does so much digital.

01:00:04.900 --> 01:00:05.580
 I, I don't know.

01:00:05.740 --> 01:00:08.820
 Maybe Jay, Jayma, what, what are you thinking about this or in general, I cut you off.

01:00:08.840 --> 01:00:09.260
 I'm sorry.

01:00:09.720 --> 01:00:15.780
 Um, I think there's something to contrast whatever you're doing.

01:00:17.060 --> 01:00:20.780
 So for Jesus, he was in the crowd constantly.

01:00:21.420 --> 01:00:23.240
 He needed something different.

01:00:24.120 --> 01:00:26.540
 That's how vacations work for most people.

01:00:26.760 --> 01:00:28.720
 It's not like they're doing less activity.

01:00:29.160 --> 01:00:31.500
 Sometimes they're doing more, but it's different.

01:00:32.620 --> 01:00:41.300
 Um, for those of us who are in digital, maybe the different thing to do would be to not be in digital.

01:00:42.080 --> 01:00:48.100
 Um, for those who aren't, they're probably in digital to a certain degree.

01:00:48.100 --> 01:00:48.940
 They don't even realize it.

01:00:49.040 --> 01:00:53.900
 If they're, you know, taking a walk in the woods while listening to worship music, well, where does that worship music come from?

01:00:54.200 --> 01:00:54.480
 Digital.

01:00:54.940 --> 01:00:56.920
 I mean, it's, it's all kind of there.

01:00:57.240 --> 01:01:00.220
 There's a mixture going on constantly.

01:01:00.440 --> 01:01:03.040
 We're just not aware of it or thinking of it.

01:01:03.700 --> 01:01:15.020
 And so that awareness, however, of not only what we are using in the moment, but where that's leading us toward.

01:01:15.600 --> 01:01:30.220
 If it is toward myself or if it is toward God, that's one thing I really appreciate about Nate's, um, perspective and Megan's is a part of it's just distraction.

01:01:30.840 --> 01:01:45.240
 Um, and part of it is, you know, am I just the soul leaning in on itself, you know, or is it something where I'm actually trying to connect an intimacy with God?

01:01:45.600 --> 01:01:51.640
 And others, that can happen in lots of different ways, using lots of different modes.

01:01:52.000 --> 01:01:54.880
 And I think we just kind of discovered that together.

01:01:55.300 --> 01:01:57.180
 So yeah, I'm still processing.

01:01:57.440 --> 01:02:02.020
 I certainly feel more connected to you, Jason and Jeff, than I did earlier this week.

01:02:02.320 --> 01:02:03.300
 So I'm grateful for this.

01:02:04.100 --> 01:02:04.480
 Me too.

01:02:05.760 --> 01:02:10.300
 It's, it's, it's a, it's a little bit of, um, maybe being out of the comfort zone.

01:02:11.020 --> 01:02:18.720
 Um, and so getting you out of the comfort zone keeps your, your focus on what it should be and not distracted.

01:02:18.980 --> 01:02:22.300
 You know, I'm wagering Nate doesn't want to be up at 5am.

01:02:22.840 --> 01:02:26.840
 Um, but discipline has, has allowed him to be more focused that way.

01:02:26.840 --> 01:02:32.300
 And maybe I should do 5am, but, uh, I don't, I don't, I think I'd be more focused on my coffee that, that early.

01:02:32.680 --> 01:02:33.280
 Do you drink coffee?

01:02:33.560 --> 01:02:34.960
 It's my best time of the day.

01:02:35.080 --> 01:02:35.600
 That's it.

01:02:35.780 --> 01:02:38.840
 Like, I don't talk, don't talk to me at 10 at 10.

01:02:38.940 --> 01:02:39.300
 I'm out.

01:02:39.840 --> 01:02:42.480
 So, all right, I can appreciate that very much.

01:02:42.580 --> 01:02:45.140
 So Megan, as we're wrapping up here, any closing thoughts?

01:02:45.900 --> 01:02:46.060
 Yeah.

01:02:46.140 --> 01:02:56.380
 I mean, my closing thought is going to be that if someone's listening to this and they are dealing with isolation, like they're, they heard some of the things that are like, ah, it sounds a lot like what I've been doing.

01:02:56.380 --> 01:03:08.720
 Or they resonate with that, like reach out to somebody, um, find people around you because sometimes it's hard for us to get out of the isolation by ourself and we need some people to come alongside us.

01:03:08.720 --> 01:03:19.400
 So whether it's, even if it's a digital community, um, the church digital, like come be a part of it or, you know, any people around you that, you know, are safe to go to.

01:03:20.360 --> 01:03:21.320
 You're not alone.

01:03:21.320 --> 01:03:31.180
 Like, I think probably all of us had dealt with this at some point in our life and, and there are a lot of people that go through it, but that's the lie that we want to believe is like, no one else is feeling this.

01:03:31.300 --> 01:03:32.700
 No one else is dealing with this.

01:03:32.800 --> 01:03:36.760
 So like, why, why burden somebody with what I'm going through?

01:03:37.560 --> 01:03:38.480
 Go do that.

01:03:38.660 --> 01:03:39.700
 Share it with somebody else.

01:03:40.200 --> 01:03:44.300
 You'll never know that if you can be fully loved until you allow yourself to be fully known.

01:03:45.560 --> 01:03:49.460
 I mean, so, uh, you know, God fully knows you and loves you.

01:03:49.460 --> 01:03:52.220
 So you got to open up that, those hidden parts of your life to him.

01:03:52.600 --> 01:04:01.540
 And quite honestly, he's put people out there that'll, that will love you in Christ, regardless of what's there in your isolated part.

01:04:01.700 --> 01:04:03.800
 All right.

01:04:04.100 --> 01:04:10.320
 You'll never know that you're fully loved until you allow yourself to be fully known.

01:04:11.900 --> 01:04:12.660
 That's really good.

01:04:12.920 --> 01:04:13.700
 You should write a book.

01:04:16.560 --> 01:04:17.780
 Or two or three.

01:04:19.380 --> 01:04:19.920
 That's good.

01:04:20.020 --> 01:04:20.520
 Is that you?

01:04:20.780 --> 01:04:21.260
 Is that you?

01:04:21.320 --> 01:04:22.520
 Or are you stealing that from somebody?

01:04:22.680 --> 01:04:22.960
 Right up.

01:04:23.040 --> 01:04:23.580
 Tell me right now.

01:04:23.680 --> 01:04:24.480
 No, that's me.

01:04:24.540 --> 01:04:25.700
 And I actually am writing a book.

01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:28.000
 So like, that's, uh, that's happening.

01:04:29.860 --> 01:04:30.620
 Uh, yeah.

01:04:31.880 --> 01:04:32.280
 Awesome.

01:04:32.420 --> 01:04:33.040
 Very good.

01:04:33.120 --> 01:04:35.760
 So Nate Graybill, thanks for jumping on here.

01:04:36.240 --> 01:04:40.420
 Um, ukulele for worship, ukulele for worship, but says early birds unite.

01:04:40.560 --> 01:04:43.100
 Uh, Nate, she's, uh, she's a 5 a.m. or two.

01:04:43.240 --> 01:04:45.280
 So God, God bless you.

01:04:45.520 --> 01:04:47.460
 Melanious used to do 5 a.m. as well.

01:04:47.500 --> 01:04:53.720
 And until she had kids and now that's not, but, um, we will, uh, we're going to call it.

01:04:53.780 --> 01:05:00.820
 And so, Hey, uh, for, uh, for, uh, for a crowded room today for Nate, for JMO, for Megan, this is Jeff with the church digital.

01:05:01.140 --> 01:05:03.700
 Thanks for jumping on the podcast and we'll see you next time on the show.

01:05:03.820 --> 01:05:04.400
 Y'all have a good one.

01:05:06.240 --> 01:05:18.040
 Y'all have a good one.