WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.620 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:07.240 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church. 00:00:07.620 --> 00:00:11.080 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:13.300 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:13.740 --> 00:00:15.760 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:16.060 --> 00:00:18.640 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:22.940 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:23.900 --> 00:00:25.840 Whether you're a big or small church, 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:30.680 The Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:32.520 digitally and physically. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.680 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:34.940 --> 00:00:35.960 All right. Hey, everybody. 00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:38.500 It's Jeff here, founder of The Church Digital. 00:00:38.780 --> 00:00:44.080 And we are talking episode 323 on The Church Digital Podcast, 00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:49.280 highlighting the digital missionary, you know, I call it framework. 00:00:49.480 --> 00:00:52.300 I'm starting to test this other language of flywheel 00:00:52.480 --> 00:00:56.200 as we're starting to explore maybe doing something different 00:00:56.200 --> 00:01:01.200 and reaching different people by doing ministry in digital space. 00:01:01.380 --> 00:01:03.580 And so, hey, I see some people are jumping on us. 00:01:03.640 --> 00:01:04.940 By the way, I'm streaming live on YouTube. 00:01:05.100 --> 00:01:08.600 Hey, to our YouTube friends, go ahead and jump in the comments. 00:01:08.700 --> 00:01:11.240 Let me know if you're watching live on YouTube. 00:01:11.500 --> 00:01:12.460 And I'm also on Instagram. 00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.800 And so I've got Peter Nallin I see jumping on. 00:01:15.860 --> 00:01:16.940 So excited to see Peter. 00:01:17.060 --> 00:01:17.980 Thanks for doing this. 00:01:18.540 --> 00:01:19.120 Jumping on. 00:01:19.220 --> 00:01:21.460 So I'm talking to my phone at the same time as the camera, 00:01:21.580 --> 00:01:24.840 trying some different things here with season 11. 00:01:25.540 --> 00:01:30.140 Once again, season 11 talking digital mission. 00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:31.380 Let's go flywheel. 00:01:31.560 --> 00:01:32.120 Now, it's funny. 00:01:32.260 --> 00:01:33.920 I've not really said flywheel. 00:01:33.980 --> 00:01:35.700 I'm kind of shopping this language around, 00:01:36.380 --> 00:01:38.260 seeing if it kind of works, the flywheel. 00:01:38.360 --> 00:01:39.620 And so you guys are my guinea pig. 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:40.380 Can I say that? 00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:41.280 You guys are my guinea pig. 00:01:41.700 --> 00:01:44.380 Guys and gals, people out there that are watching this stream in real time, 00:01:44.380 --> 00:01:46.040 I have never done this before. 00:01:46.580 --> 00:01:49.720 And so this is, I tell you, if you're watching this stream, 00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:53.160 you are always getting the raw stuff. 00:01:53.280 --> 00:01:56.200 And so that's what we're talking about here with this flywheel. 00:01:56.260 --> 00:02:04.160 Because framework, it is a framework when we talk about the framework of contextualizing 00:02:04.160 --> 00:02:08.640 the digital missionary framework of connect, community, equip, and mobilize. 00:02:09.320 --> 00:02:14.820 But one of the things that we don't talk about is it's a lot of work to get the framework built. 00:02:15.480 --> 00:02:23.120 But once you get it built, it turns into a flywheel where it almost like multiplies into itself. 00:02:23.140 --> 00:02:25.140 It almost sustains itself. 00:02:25.200 --> 00:02:26.500 It's hard to get it going. 00:02:26.980 --> 00:02:28.720 Maybe you don't know what a flywheel is. 00:02:28.800 --> 00:02:32.400 And so maybe you should like even back up and shop some of that language around. 00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:39.340 And so, you know, in typical Funko fashion, let me present to you my friend here, Leonardo da Vinci. 00:02:39.520 --> 00:02:45.180 Some would say, hey, Jeff, you look a little bit like Leonardo, wearing the dark hat and the beard. 00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:47.960 Dude's got a pretty hefty beard. 00:02:48.040 --> 00:02:48.820 I don't know that I'm there. 00:02:48.940 --> 00:02:50.440 But seriously, Leonardo da Vinci. 00:02:50.740 --> 00:02:57.740 Not, some of you are expecting a turtle with a, Leonardo was the sword guy, right? 00:02:57.800 --> 00:03:00.320 With the blue, the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle. 00:03:00.860 --> 00:03:02.160 So, no, that's not this one. 00:03:02.200 --> 00:03:02.520 Da Vinci. 00:03:03.600 --> 00:03:05.020 He actually invented the flywheel. 00:03:05.860 --> 00:03:13.680 And I happened to go to an exhibit here in Miami a while back where they were talking about the flywheel. 00:03:13.680 --> 00:03:19.180 And a bunch of Leonardo was a known artist, but he's also a known inventor. 00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:26.480 And this exhibit was highlighting like all of his early inventions hundreds of years ago. 00:03:26.920 --> 00:03:36.380 And somehow he figured out the physics of the flywheel where it was this, it was this device that you would crank at the top. 00:03:36.600 --> 00:03:43.980 And as you were cranking it, there were four weighted pieces of wood that were spinning around. 00:03:44.480 --> 00:03:56.400 And what Leonardo discovered with the flywheel is once you get it spinning, and once you get those four things in, you know, I don't know what the language is, centrical force. 00:03:56.780 --> 00:04:00.360 Somebody who's in physics can centripetal force, whatever you guys tell me. 00:04:00.600 --> 00:04:07.160 But once it starts moving and sustaining in a circular motion, it's sustained, it continues on. 00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:22.640 And I would argue, as we're looking at digital ministry, as we're looking at digital mission work, that these four elements that we're going to talk about are these four pieces that go in the circle. 00:04:22.740 --> 00:04:33.860 It's these four wood blocks that once you get all four of these working in context, and once you get all four of them, or once you partner with people, and all four of them are sustained, 00:04:33.860 --> 00:04:45.660 you're going to see your ministry explode in digital and virtual space because it's built into a reproducing format, a multiplying format. 00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:54.940 To be honest, we're seeing that right here with the church digital as we're now seeing the four elements in TCD context work for us. 00:04:54.940 --> 00:05:03.780 And we're even seeing that now start to explore in global space as we're starting to expand out and multiply into some different regions. 00:05:03.860 --> 00:05:06.780 They contextualize it in that space and, oh, it's so much fun. 00:05:07.320 --> 00:05:10.060 But, hey, here's what we're talking about with the flywheel. 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:11.240 I said there was four pieces, right? 00:05:12.040 --> 00:05:15.580 Piece number one we've got coming into it is this idea of connection. 00:05:16.160 --> 00:05:16.560 Connect. 00:05:17.320 --> 00:05:18.440 You know, this is what we see. 00:05:19.120 --> 00:05:23.700 Well, let me just give a, well, it's connect, it's community, it's equip, and it's mobilize. 00:05:23.880 --> 00:05:27.200 Connect, community, equip, and mobilize. 00:05:27.200 --> 00:05:31.600 So, basically, you know, the connections that we have, we want to feed them into community. 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.300 And within the community, we want to build relationships. 00:05:34.700 --> 00:05:40.820 And through those relationships, establish trust, evangelism, discipleship, all of these things are super important. 00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:47.680 But in the community has to have a purpose more than just building the relationships. 00:05:48.140 --> 00:05:49.780 What do we want the community to do? 00:05:50.040 --> 00:06:00.100 And for the flywheel to sustain itself, okay, that community, we're going to talk about this today, it's got to feed into some sort of an equipping model. 00:06:00.460 --> 00:06:03.000 Some sort of a tool where you're equipping people. 00:06:03.080 --> 00:06:07.180 In the Church Digital's context, we're equipping people to find their purpose. 00:06:07.300 --> 00:06:08.520 What's God calling them to do? 00:06:08.880 --> 00:06:11.780 And literally, through the Church Digital, we're helping them do that. 00:06:11.840 --> 00:06:13.220 We're sending them out to do that. 00:06:13.420 --> 00:06:18.260 As a digital missionary sending agency, we're equipping people to be digital missionaries. 00:06:18.300 --> 00:06:22.680 And now we're sending them out to be digital missionaries in their context. 00:06:22.800 --> 00:06:24.600 And so, that's the goal. 00:06:24.780 --> 00:06:27.480 Connect, community, equip, mobilize. 00:06:28.100 --> 00:06:43.660 And just like my friend DaVinci here, hey, DaVinci, just like he spun that flywheel to create the science, to discover the science of those four elements that are now have the force around it to sustain ongoing movement. 00:06:45.580 --> 00:06:52.820 So would you guys and gals if we utilize the connect to community, equip, mobilization model. 00:06:53.300 --> 00:06:53.600 All right. 00:06:53.840 --> 00:06:56.320 So, let me just kind of get into this here in a little bit. 00:06:56.360 --> 00:06:59.880 This is what we're talking about here in this season, digging in here. 00:06:59.880 --> 00:07:24.860 So, connecting, if we are connecting, if we are doing blogs, if we're doing podcasts, if we're doing streams, if we're doing games, if we're engaging on social media, if we are engaging in these digital connection points, but we're not driving them into a digital community for a deeper relationship, well, I hate to say it, but there's really no power in that. 00:07:24.860 --> 00:07:28.740 I mean, sure, you've got lots of followers. 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:34.420 You could have hundreds of thousands, tens of thousands, you could have millions of followers, but that's an influencer. 00:07:35.300 --> 00:07:37.820 Are you able to speak into somebody's life digitally? 00:07:38.060 --> 00:07:39.880 Are we able to share Jesus at that level? 00:07:39.960 --> 00:07:43.200 Are you able to change somebody's life at that mass number? 00:07:45.060 --> 00:07:49.680 It's not about connecting with people at a superficial level. 00:07:49.680 --> 00:07:51.960 Now, I don't mean anything rude about connection. 00:07:52.020 --> 00:07:54.760 We talked about that in the podcast last week. 00:07:54.820 --> 00:07:57.120 We did a deep dive on the connection. 00:07:57.680 --> 00:08:03.420 But the connection for connection to itself, there's more than just connection, right? 00:08:03.800 --> 00:08:06.640 This is where community comes into place. 00:08:06.640 --> 00:08:10.140 So connection without community is powerless. 00:08:11.100 --> 00:08:18.640 I would suggest community without equipping, community without some sort of purpose behind it. 00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:25.140 If you don't have a purpose behind your community, I would argue it's kind of pointless. 00:08:25.140 --> 00:08:34.200 Like, why even bother with community if the community is not going to end up doing something to have a larger purpose? 00:08:34.920 --> 00:08:45.060 And for me, for the church digital and the missionaries that we're working with, we're encouraging this idea of equipping, feeding into mobilization. 00:08:46.020 --> 00:08:59.660 Equipping, feeding into helping these missionaries we're training, helping the people that we're discipling find their spiritual purpose and equipping and mobilizing them to go do that in physical digital space. 00:08:59.780 --> 00:09:02.320 So that's the 40,000 foot view. 00:09:02.440 --> 00:09:06.280 That's the elevator pitch for Connect, Community, Equip, Mobilize. 00:09:06.380 --> 00:09:08.240 I hope that's starting to resonate with you. 00:09:08.300 --> 00:09:15.740 You're going to hear me this season say that a lot because it is the core foundation of what we're doing inside the church digital. 00:09:16.140 --> 00:09:20.820 So last week, we did a deep dive on connection. 00:09:21.660 --> 00:09:22.280 And it was interesting. 00:09:22.400 --> 00:09:28.120 Last week, if you listened to the live, I was not feeling well. 00:09:29.200 --> 00:09:34.260 I would just actually right after the podcast recording I did on Tuesday in the live stream. 00:09:34.620 --> 00:09:40.960 I mean, I didn't like crush my car, but I literally crashed and I was out for like three days almost like it was it was brutal. 00:09:41.080 --> 00:09:44.140 I just was broken physically. 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:45.840 My body just was like, yeah, you're done. 00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:46.680 And it was funny. 00:09:46.720 --> 00:09:47.900 Like, I wasn't really beat up. 00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:48.240 It wasn't. 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:49.640 So I have no idea what caused it. 00:09:49.820 --> 00:09:50.900 I'm feeling much better now. 00:09:51.220 --> 00:09:55.780 My point being is that if you watch this on podcast, you're not seeing the live take. 00:09:55.900 --> 00:10:00.360 And so it kind of condensed it down to the simpler take for episode 322. 00:10:00.840 --> 00:10:05.740 But even that, it's really focused on this idea of connection. 00:10:06.040 --> 00:10:09.200 What does it mean to connect with people in digital space? 00:10:09.280 --> 00:10:11.020 What are the strengths of connection? 00:10:11.300 --> 00:10:12.860 What are the weaknesses of connection? 00:10:13.180 --> 00:10:14.380 What can connection do? 00:10:14.740 --> 00:10:17.080 What can connection not do? 00:10:17.420 --> 00:10:22.180 And so I would encourage you to dig back into 322 and explore that. 00:10:22.180 --> 00:10:26.420 But it's important to remember that connection left to itself. 00:10:26.740 --> 00:10:33.800 If all we're doing is connection, I'm sorry to say this, but it's most likely shallow and superficial. 00:10:34.160 --> 00:10:42.540 Now, somebody is going to say, but Jeff, give me some like extreme situation where they can connect at a deep level involving X platform. 00:10:42.740 --> 00:10:43.460 And sure. 00:10:43.580 --> 00:10:45.760 OK, you know, I'm not going to fight the battle. 00:10:46.460 --> 00:10:53.880 Maybe you're using that platform, not at a connection level, but maybe you figured out how to jury rig it to a community level. 00:10:54.380 --> 00:11:01.840 But the fact is, is that platforms like like Twitch or excuse me, like Twitter X, it's hard to get to a deep level. 00:11:02.020 --> 00:11:06.380 You only got so many different characters that you can type in and replies. 00:11:06.380 --> 00:11:07.980 It's it's cumbersome. 00:11:08.140 --> 00:11:12.280 It's not a it's not designed for relational approach. 00:11:12.820 --> 00:11:14.960 You know, Instagram is kind of the same way. 00:11:15.100 --> 00:11:26.480 Even as I'm streaming right now on Instagram, looking at this camera, you're all you're limited in some context with who you're really able to connect with in a two way conversation. 00:11:26.940 --> 00:11:33.280 And so we start to rethink maybe what digital community is looking like. 00:11:34.640 --> 00:11:43.040 This is where we start to now recognize that connection without community. 00:11:44.900 --> 00:11:46.620 There's no power in it. 00:11:47.240 --> 00:11:52.700 Now, as I talk about the flywheel, you know, start to think about this idea. 00:11:53.220 --> 00:11:56.020 Digital missions, digital missionary work. 00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:00.280 The majority of what we do is digital missionaries. 00:12:00.720 --> 00:12:04.340 I mean, if we're really honest, it's it's it's grounded in community. 00:12:04.660 --> 00:12:07.520 To be honest, like the majority, it's not even making about shoot. 00:12:07.820 --> 00:12:09.020 Let's take that out of the connection. 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:10.940 It's not even about digital missionaries. 00:12:11.040 --> 00:12:15.740 The idea of anything in missionaries, digital or physical church, digital or physical. 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:22.540 It's all about connection and it's all about community. 00:12:23.080 --> 00:12:24.780 Let's take your average physical church. 00:12:24.920 --> 00:12:25.920 Now, it's interesting. 00:12:26.100 --> 00:12:28.440 I would suggest connect, community, equip, mobilize. 00:12:28.980 --> 00:12:32.180 It's the same playbook your physical church is doing, just different context. 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:40.980 So you've got these people and they are they're the ones that are sitting in the pews of your 00:12:40.980 --> 00:12:41.340 church. 00:12:42.460 --> 00:12:44.640 Let's just say they're in your neighborhood around your church. 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:49.220 You just planted a new church plant in, I don't know, I'm downtown Miami. 00:12:50.000 --> 00:12:52.320 OK, so you planted a church in downtown Miami. 00:12:53.380 --> 00:13:00.800 The you want to connect with the people in your context, 10 miles around your where your church 00:13:00.800 --> 00:13:02.120 is located in downtown Miami. 00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:07.060 Oh, look, there's a giant skyscraper apartment complex right across the street from your church. 00:13:07.160 --> 00:13:12.520 I want to go shake the hand of every person in that building and I want to invite them to 00:13:12.520 --> 00:13:13.000 church. 00:13:13.380 --> 00:13:18.020 I'm connecting with them because they're within range, physical reach of the church. 00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:19.960 I'm meeting them. 00:13:20.620 --> 00:13:26.120 And yes, in some physical context, you know, it is possible to to pray with a person, to 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:26.740 share Jesus. 00:13:26.880 --> 00:13:30.840 The Holy Spirit can open something and do something incredible at the connection level. 00:13:30.920 --> 00:13:33.160 He does that in physical and digital space. 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:37.200 Far be it for me to cheapen the impact of God in this context. 00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:43.900 But it's important to realize, I would suggest, that it's not just the connection. 00:13:44.640 --> 00:13:48.880 It's, hey, why don't you come join us for church on Sunday? 00:13:49.420 --> 00:13:52.580 Now, that's the playbook in the physical space. 00:13:52.580 --> 00:13:58.280 We want to get him into that physical community to build a relationship in the physical space. 00:13:59.420 --> 00:14:07.020 I would argue that digital community is actually maybe even more effective than engaging with 00:14:07.020 --> 00:14:11.160 people in the physical community, especially when you're dealing with people that are that 00:14:11.160 --> 00:14:17.000 are called to Christ, because digital community gives a safe space for people to have those 00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:20.580 hard conversations without feeling the pressure of physicality. 00:14:20.580 --> 00:14:30.000 And so the opportunity in physical or digital to use digital community to establish trust, 00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:35.360 to build relationships, to deepen relationships. 00:14:35.900 --> 00:14:41.540 Digital evangelism, we actually find, is very effective in digital community. 00:14:42.540 --> 00:14:45.960 Digital evangelism is very effective in digital community. 00:14:46.100 --> 00:14:52.100 Because of relational approaches, we find that, and we'll talk about this here in a little 00:14:52.100 --> 00:14:59.000 bit, relationships are crucial for digital mission work. 00:14:59.460 --> 00:15:05.780 And the more that we can build relationships, not at the superficial level of connection, follow 00:15:05.780 --> 00:15:10.220 the Holy Spirit, but as he guides, get these people, get the people you want to do ministry 00:15:10.220 --> 00:15:11.920 with in community. 00:15:12.540 --> 00:15:18.960 And there, establish trust, build relationships, evangelize, connect them to Jesus, and even 00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:22.200 disciple in that digital community level. 00:15:23.020 --> 00:15:26.500 There's so much that can be done utilizing digital community. 00:15:26.640 --> 00:15:27.420 You know, it's interesting. 00:15:27.820 --> 00:15:33.860 The, I tell this story every once in a while, the US Surgeon General, I'm blanking on his name 00:15:33.860 --> 00:15:34.400 right now. 00:15:34.660 --> 00:15:36.440 And I'm assuming he's still in office. 00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:40.460 You know, I know here in America, you know, Trump just took office yesterday. 00:15:40.460 --> 00:15:44.020 And I actually, I'm not sure if the dude got picked up again. 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:45.180 Actually, I need to look up. 00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:55.440 But in 2023, the US Surgeon General here in America wrote a deal on the epidemic of loneliness. 00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:56.700 This was a big deal. 00:15:57.200 --> 00:16:06.480 This was 150, 200 page report, as I recall, citing the major issues in Gen Z and Gen A on 00:16:06.480 --> 00:16:12.120 how they are isolated and separated and alone, and they don't go on dates, and they don't 00:16:12.120 --> 00:16:12.960 have any friends. 00:16:13.200 --> 00:16:16.200 We've got all this connection and no real relationships. 00:16:17.560 --> 00:16:20.460 You can, you know, Google the report epidemic of loneliness. 00:16:20.760 --> 00:16:24.540 I promise you, you'll find it in a whole bunch of commentary centered around it. 00:16:25.100 --> 00:16:31.720 Now, what's interesting for me is that the US Surgeon General, who is not a Christian by any 00:16:31.720 --> 00:16:35.520 stretch, I believe, doesn't profess to be, we've got mutual friends. 00:16:36.860 --> 00:16:46.380 He is, he says that there's seven ways, there's seven ways in America we can address the epidemic 00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:51.500 of loneliness, three of them actually utilize digital. 00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:57.940 But the one that I really want to cite today on how to address the epidemic of loneliness. 00:16:58.800 --> 00:16:59.480 It's funny. 00:16:59.620 --> 00:17:05.420 I would think, okay, all the teenagers need to trash their phones because that's, that's 00:17:05.420 --> 00:17:06.820 what normal culture would say. 00:17:06.940 --> 00:17:11.060 Well, they just need to get rid of their phones and start having conversations like normal 00:17:11.060 --> 00:17:11.500 people. 00:17:12.940 --> 00:17:14.700 It's not what the Surgeon General said. 00:17:15.320 --> 00:17:22.920 The Surgeon General said that we, corporations, we, organizations, we, institutions, we, churches, 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:28.620 we need to do a better job of utilizing digital community. 00:17:29.520 --> 00:17:35.840 The Surgeon General, to address the epidemic of loneliness that's engaging in the next generation 00:17:35.840 --> 00:17:42.800 in Gen A and Gen Z in America today, the top medical guy says, hey, digital community is 00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:44.700 crucial and y'all suck at it. 00:17:45.080 --> 00:17:45.940 We need to do better. 00:17:47.400 --> 00:17:53.280 And so even the Surgeon General recognizes there's power in this digital community. 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:56.340 We just haven't utilized it yet. 00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:01.280 So, so what would it look like to actually, you know, utilize this thing to, to establish 00:18:01.280 --> 00:18:07.260 trust, to, to build relationships, evangelism, um, and, and even at the discipleship level. 00:18:07.260 --> 00:18:11.540 And, and actually I'm reminded of a book that I wrote way back in the day, somewhere over 00:18:11.540 --> 00:18:11.880 here. 00:18:11.980 --> 00:18:13.060 I got my finger, right? 00:18:13.080 --> 00:18:15.680 It's not showing up on Instagram right there. 00:18:16.340 --> 00:18:17.940 That is so hard to do point. 00:18:18.120 --> 00:18:21.240 You know, you can't see me on Instagram, but I'm pointing with my finger and it's like 00:18:21.240 --> 00:18:21.500 mirror. 00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:21.760 Yeah. 00:18:21.800 --> 00:18:23.800 It's, it's just, it's mind blowing. 00:18:24.380 --> 00:18:28.420 But I wrote this book with, uh, Dr. John Harris called Sharing Jesus Online. 00:18:29.200 --> 00:18:32.940 And then we take this idea centered around bless. 00:18:33.020 --> 00:18:39.080 You may have heard Dave Ferguson, uh, write the blessed practices, um, and, and, which is 00:18:39.080 --> 00:18:42.900 a very relational approach towards evangelism. 00:18:43.020 --> 00:18:50.420 Begin with prayer, listen, eat together with someone, serve that person and, and share Jesus, 00:18:50.640 --> 00:18:51.760 share your Jesus story. 00:18:52.060 --> 00:18:57.540 Now, Dave and his brother, John, they, they wrote the book and they developed the framework 00:18:57.540 --> 00:18:59.320 in, in physical context, right? 00:18:59.420 --> 00:19:02.780 And so this is where I am going to connect with my neighbor. 00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:05.760 Uh, and I want to go share Jesus with my neighbor. 00:19:05.800 --> 00:19:09.420 I want to build a relationship, uh, with my neighbor to connect with him about Christ. 00:19:09.420 --> 00:19:13.100 And so I am going to, before I do anything, I'm going to begin with prayer. 00:19:14.260 --> 00:19:14.740 All right. 00:19:14.740 --> 00:19:15.960 I'm going to pray it up. 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:18.120 God helped me in this situation. 00:19:18.380 --> 00:19:21.820 Give me the words to say and help me connect with, uh, my neighbor. 00:19:22.060 --> 00:19:24.240 And then I'm going to go connect with my neighbor. 00:19:25.180 --> 00:19:29.840 And, and instead of talking, the first thing I'm going to do is listen. 00:19:30.220 --> 00:19:31.360 Hey, how was your day? 00:19:31.740 --> 00:19:32.540 How's your wife? 00:19:32.620 --> 00:19:33.500 Tell me what's going on. 00:19:33.540 --> 00:19:34.320 Let's let's. 00:19:34.320 --> 00:19:39.700 And you're, you are letting that neighbor, letting that person talk. 00:19:39.800 --> 00:19:40.560 You're listening. 00:19:41.300 --> 00:19:44.580 You're, you're engaging him and you're building that trust by, by listening. 00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:51.600 Even at the listening level, you're already at community because community is two-way conversation. 00:19:51.860 --> 00:19:53.000 Not one way. 00:19:53.460 --> 00:20:02.060 Connection is, is you talking at people, social media posts, uh, blogging, uh, podcast streaming. 00:20:02.060 --> 00:20:03.240 What I'm doing right now. 00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:05.720 Like I've got Steve Reed on here. 00:20:05.820 --> 00:20:06.600 I've got Peter. 00:20:06.800 --> 00:20:07.680 I've got tall. 00:20:07.800 --> 00:20:10.820 I've got people that are processing this stream with me. 00:20:11.460 --> 00:20:15.140 But to be honest, I'm having a lot of one-way conversations here. 00:20:15.180 --> 00:20:16.940 I'm not really engaging in two-way. 00:20:17.100 --> 00:20:18.220 This is connection. 00:20:18.840 --> 00:20:24.220 But by blessing, by beginning in prayer and listening, you're in community two-way. 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:31.380 And, and that's, that's the opportunity now to listen to people and, and strengthen that 00:20:31.380 --> 00:20:33.960 community even more by, by eating together. 00:20:34.420 --> 00:20:36.260 Hey man, this, this is great. 00:20:36.320 --> 00:20:37.460 I'd love to talk more. 00:20:37.500 --> 00:20:38.380 Let's go grab coffee. 00:20:38.980 --> 00:20:41.940 And what's interesting with eat together in physical space. 00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:43.120 Now, how do you eat together digitally? 00:20:43.220 --> 00:20:43.640 We'll get there. 00:20:43.720 --> 00:20:46.800 But eating together in physical space, there's a level of intimacy. 00:20:46.800 --> 00:20:47.960 There's a level of trust. 00:20:48.320 --> 00:20:54.300 Like if I'm at war with someone, if, if we're having verbal abuse towards each other, I'm 00:20:54.300 --> 00:20:56.720 not going to trust them enough to go sit down over Starbucks. 00:20:56.920 --> 00:21:01.740 Or if I am sitting down at Starbucks and having that conversation, well, that means that I am 00:21:01.740 --> 00:21:08.040 attempting to overcome the struggles and, and make myself more accessible. 00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:14.460 There's a humility that's involved when you sit down and eat that vanilla bean scone in 00:21:14.460 --> 00:21:16.860 front of their, their face. 00:21:17.200 --> 00:21:24.940 And so there's this opportunity to eat together through the process and deepening that relationship 00:21:24.940 --> 00:21:25.700 by eating together. 00:21:25.920 --> 00:21:33.260 And then you, and according to Dave Ferguson, you serve them like, you know, Hey man, I'm, 00:21:33.260 --> 00:21:35.080 I'm, I'm sorry to hear you're having a hard time. 00:21:35.120 --> 00:21:38.220 Can I, let me, let me mow your yard for you while, while, while you're traveling. 00:21:38.340 --> 00:21:40.540 Oh, you're going to be out of town helping your mom. 00:21:40.700 --> 00:21:42.680 Do you need somebody to house it or check your mail? 00:21:44.900 --> 00:21:46.240 Show up at their house. 00:21:46.240 --> 00:21:50.160 I heard Dave tell me the story once of how he showed up with, uh, he went to like this 00:21:50.160 --> 00:21:54.400 special bakery in Chicago and, and he showed up at his neighbor's house with like a, this 00:21:54.400 --> 00:21:57.460 like special loaf of bread that other than you can only buy at this one bakery. 00:21:57.540 --> 00:21:57.960 That's really good. 00:21:58.000 --> 00:21:58.960 It's like, Hey, I got two loaves. 00:21:59.140 --> 00:22:00.660 Why don't you and your family take one? 00:22:00.780 --> 00:22:04.740 Like it's simple to do, uh, to serve physically. 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:11.300 And so that, but once again, you're establishing trust, you're building the relationship and then 00:22:11.300 --> 00:22:12.820 you share your Jesus story. 00:22:12.820 --> 00:22:21.440 So like when you go through, begin with prayer, listen, uh, eat, uh, serve, and then share your 00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:22.160 Jesus story. 00:22:22.520 --> 00:22:29.340 You'll notice the bottom, the last step, share your Jesus story is, is really the, um, 00:22:30.340 --> 00:22:33.080 is really the point where you are now speaking. 00:22:33.560 --> 00:22:36.680 The rest is you action to build a relationship. 00:22:36.680 --> 00:22:42.760 Now, it's interesting that, that Dave didn't choose the words like, um, Oh, I don't know, 00:22:42.780 --> 00:22:50.120 like, you know, jump on a, uh, soapbox and tell them everything they're doing in life. 00:22:50.120 --> 00:22:50.660 That's wrong. 00:22:50.880 --> 00:22:57.660 Or that it's, it's not, you know, some, something like stand on some, uh, theological mandate, 00:22:57.660 --> 00:23:01.180 uh, and just start, you know, slapping them upside the head. 00:23:01.320 --> 00:23:05.420 It's not, it's not soapbox and, and it's not slap. 00:23:05.840 --> 00:23:08.280 It's, it's share your story. 00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:12.080 Hey, let me tell you what Christ did and did in my life. 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:18.420 I was, I was, I was at a time similar to yours and, and Jesus really met me in a, in a big 00:23:18.420 --> 00:23:18.600 way. 00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:21.240 Can I, can I share with you how, how that went? 00:23:22.620 --> 00:23:25.600 So that is blessed in physical space. 00:23:26.500 --> 00:23:36.100 Now I'm, I'm here to tell you, according to that book, begin with prayer, listen, shared 00:23:36.100 --> 00:23:42.140 experiences, serve and share your Jesus story. 00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:50.660 That is an incredible relational framework that works beautiful in community to share Jesus 00:23:50.660 --> 00:23:55.120 and to bring people to Christ in digital and in virtual space. 00:23:55.800 --> 00:23:59.340 Like we are seeing it time and time again through the church digital. 00:23:59.340 --> 00:24:07.320 And, and I want to encourage you to start to recognize the power of, of community, the 00:24:07.320 --> 00:24:11.760 power of a relational evangelism and, and to that relational discipleship. 00:24:11.760 --> 00:24:17.380 Once you bring that person to Christ, you, you want to be part of that discipleship process 00:24:17.380 --> 00:24:18.100 with them. 00:24:18.180 --> 00:24:21.800 By the way, I'm not, I'm not speaking to like pastors here. 00:24:22.540 --> 00:24:26.280 Um, you know, it's funny, the majority of pastors that actually watched my stream through 00:24:26.280 --> 00:24:29.200 the COVID years, majority of those people are gone. 00:24:29.200 --> 00:24:31.740 Like they're not, they're not keeping up with what I'm doing. 00:24:31.740 --> 00:24:36.240 Cause I'm not talking about like how to get their church service to look great on stream. 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:38.820 Like I, I can have that conversation with you. 00:24:38.900 --> 00:24:44.140 That is so not interesting to me, by the way, helping normal people become digital missionaries 00:24:44.140 --> 00:24:49.060 to utilize their influence and digital virtual space for the cause of Christ to create a movement 00:24:49.060 --> 00:24:55.740 of normies that are helping change the world, uh, and, and to come to the, uh, understanding 00:24:55.740 --> 00:25:00.240 power of the gospel and understand their humility and the power of the kingdom. 00:25:01.460 --> 00:25:05.440 Yes, please sign me up for the humility of the kingdom. 00:25:05.440 --> 00:25:09.020 By the way, I'm, I am, I am all about that. 00:25:10.380 --> 00:25:18.600 And so for us, normal people, bi-vocational ministers, people with nine to five jobs that 00:25:18.600 --> 00:25:21.180 have nothing to do with ministry that are just, Oh, on the side. 00:25:21.240 --> 00:25:25.060 Hey, let me, let me do a little ministry here in digital or virtual space. 00:25:25.060 --> 00:25:27.380 Listen, let me, let me see how God can use this. 00:25:27.720 --> 00:25:28.980 God can use this. 00:25:29.840 --> 00:25:33.080 Uh, it's a, it's a powerful, it's a beautiful thing. 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:42.940 And so engage in this idea of relational evangelism, engage in this idea of once they know Christ, 00:25:43.320 --> 00:25:46.380 continue the relationship, relational discipleship. 00:25:47.660 --> 00:25:52.840 Now, the beautiful thing about the flywheel, the beautiful thing about the framework, this 00:25:52.840 --> 00:25:58.840 connect, community, equip, mobilize, connect, community, equip, and mobilize is that it can 00:25:58.840 --> 00:25:59.860 be contextualized. 00:26:00.580 --> 00:26:01.980 I'm using big words today. 00:26:02.080 --> 00:26:08.160 I feel like, you know, this may be, this may be the, um, deep into the pool for some, this 00:26:08.160 --> 00:26:10.800 may be, this can get contextualized. 00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:17.580 You know, I, I, I've had hundreds of conversations with people and they would say something to the 00:26:17.580 --> 00:26:20.160 extent of Jeff, just give me a, give me a formula. 00:26:20.740 --> 00:26:24.260 I just, I just want, I want four easy steps for each. 00:26:24.300 --> 00:26:25.960 Can you just tell me what to do and I'll do it. 00:26:26.180 --> 00:26:30.720 Jeff, if you can come up with a, with a four simple steps to, to launching a digital church 00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.500 plant, um, it'll revolutionize the world. 00:26:35.880 --> 00:26:41.060 Unfortunately, it's not that easy because of the word contextualize. 00:26:42.200 --> 00:26:47.480 You want to launch a Facebook group church. 00:26:47.500 --> 00:26:50.080 To reach the retired generation. 00:26:50.080 --> 00:26:57.560 You want to launch a video game church on Twitch to reach, uh, 20 something gamers. 00:26:57.920 --> 00:27:02.540 You want to figure out how to decide, start a discipleship movement for Gen A, Gen Z. 00:27:03.080 --> 00:27:07.240 Uh, you want to do something in virtual reality. 00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:14.080 That's engaging with people in, in Morocco and, uh, you know, some of the, um, uh, MENA region. 00:27:14.500 --> 00:27:16.880 Uh, you want to do something in, in Africa. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:18.380 You want to do something in South America. 00:27:18.380 --> 00:27:19.800 You want to do something in Oceania. 00:27:19.800 --> 00:27:21.260 You want to do something in the middle East. 00:27:21.400 --> 00:27:23.740 Like it don't contextualization. 00:27:23.980 --> 00:27:30.680 Um, that's why the church, the physical church, that's why the American church really, I mean, 00:27:30.680 --> 00:27:32.420 this is why I said the American church was lazy. 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:36.700 Uh, actually I said they were cowards, but lazy may be a better word. 00:27:37.980 --> 00:27:46.280 Because contextualization is hard because contextualization isn't scalable because they have their audience. 00:27:46.280 --> 00:27:48.620 They don't want to put in the effort to find a new audience. 00:27:48.780 --> 00:27:52.380 They just want to scale what they're doing more effectively. 00:27:53.420 --> 00:27:57.680 And that's, that may not be a bad idea. 00:27:57.900 --> 00:28:00.840 Like, I don't want to be critical of that model and of that play. 00:28:00.960 --> 00:28:07.460 If I was investing millions of dollars into a certain type of model with a certain type of person, 00:28:07.460 --> 00:28:10.120 I would want to maximize the ROI on that as well. 00:28:11.240 --> 00:28:16.800 The problem with that model is that you only reach a certain type of person. 00:28:17.300 --> 00:28:23.160 And this is where I say digitally, we have the opportunity to reach someone different by doing someone, 00:28:23.340 --> 00:28:24.360 something different. 00:28:24.360 --> 00:28:25.240 I say it again. 00:28:25.440 --> 00:28:31.260 We have the opportunity to reach someone different by doing something different. 00:28:31.760 --> 00:28:34.300 And it's leaning into these contextualizations. 00:28:34.300 --> 00:28:41.300 It's leaning into adapting that flywheel, that connect community equipping mobilization. 00:28:41.660 --> 00:28:43.620 That's why it's so important. 00:28:43.740 --> 00:28:47.340 I've got my friend here, New Zealand, tall, skinny Kiwi. 00:28:47.780 --> 00:28:50.560 I have no idea what time it is on your side of the planet, my friend. 00:28:51.460 --> 00:28:56.640 Contextualization is why nobody should take a how to start a VR church in three days. 00:28:56.800 --> 00:29:02.440 It takes a long time to figure out a new digital culture and be a redemptive part of that. 00:29:03.680 --> 00:29:04.580 Yeah, it's interesting. 00:29:04.580 --> 00:29:05.940 No, no shots intended. 00:29:06.140 --> 00:29:08.740 I know somebody actually does have a VR church in three days. 00:29:08.960 --> 00:29:11.580 And I would, I've had the conversations. 00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:14.580 It's not three 24-hour periods. 00:29:14.580 --> 00:29:14.980 Okay. 00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:17.180 Like, let's, let's, let's back off the food train there. 00:29:17.840 --> 00:29:22.300 It's more of like the, it's okay. 00:29:22.440 --> 00:29:27.300 Like, I don't want to get like, did God create the world in seven days or seven time periods? 00:29:27.500 --> 00:29:34.940 I'm not saying it was, you know, seven 24-hour periods versus seven time spans. 00:29:35.220 --> 00:29:39.520 But yeah, it's, it's never as easy as, as three simple days. 00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:45.140 Well, and to be honest, tall, skinny, that's one of the reasons I don't think I got as popular. 00:29:46.300 --> 00:29:49.540 I could have been a lot more popular if I'd said, oh, it's four easy steps. 00:29:49.580 --> 00:29:51.120 You guys can do this in 72 hours. 00:29:51.280 --> 00:29:52.080 No problem. 00:29:53.360 --> 00:29:56.760 You know, it, I actually, I had a, you know, I've told this story. 00:29:56.800 --> 00:30:02.680 I had a global organization with a globally recognized lead pastor ask me, 00:30:02.900 --> 00:30:07.220 Hey, Jeff, how do we get our, how do we get, um, one church for every planet, 00:30:07.320 --> 00:30:12.340 one church for every hundred people on the planet globally utilizing digital tools? 00:30:12.540 --> 00:30:19.060 Like there's a lot of desire to see this move, 00:30:19.060 --> 00:30:23.920 but the importance to contextualize even what community looks like. 00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:25.540 Like, you know, it's interesting. 00:30:25.540 --> 00:30:32.720 I've been, I've been even wrestling with this in a, in a global context here in the past 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:33.060 week. 00:30:33.100 --> 00:30:36.020 I had, I had a call from, um, Utope. 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.640 Utope is, uh, Utope, if you're watching, this is awesome. 00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:43.080 Like don't, Utope sometimes second guesses himself when we talk. 00:30:43.560 --> 00:30:45.320 And, um, you know, it's funny. 00:30:45.400 --> 00:30:47.940 He, we were on this call and I'm like, Hey, so I was, how's EDM going? 00:30:48.220 --> 00:30:48.820 What's going on? 00:30:48.820 --> 00:30:50.400 I was getting like, you know, updates from him. 00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:53.920 And, um, you know, Utope's in Nigeria. 00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:58.920 He's been involved with us for the church digital five or six years now, seven years pre COVID. 00:30:59.500 --> 00:31:03.080 And, and he starts like wanting, talking about changing things. 00:31:03.580 --> 00:31:07.160 And, and, you know, you know, ever having those conversations with somebody and they're 00:31:07.160 --> 00:31:09.520 like dancing around what they want to say. 00:31:09.520 --> 00:31:12.960 Cause they're, they're afraid of, they're going to hurt your feelings or, you know, they 00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:17.700 don't want to like, it's like broken glass or eggshells and they don't want to like, you 00:31:17.700 --> 00:31:20.060 know, do too much damage, but they really want. 00:31:20.140 --> 00:31:22.980 And I'm like, Utope, don't dance around it, man. 00:31:23.080 --> 00:31:30.420 Just, just, just say it, just say it like contextualization requires that you say it. 00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:38.520 Utope, I invited you into the conversation to recognize that how we think in America is 00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:44.020 different than what's going to be effective in, in Nigeria, the, the conversation, so to 00:31:44.020 --> 00:31:50.000 speak between he and I is, is that I am a huge, and my team for the most part, the church 00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:56.100 digital team is a huge proponent of flip the classroom, the, that method of, of teaching 00:31:56.100 --> 00:32:00.880 and then how we utilize community on the backside to reinforce the teaching that's in play. 00:32:02.900 --> 00:32:08.220 Utope, in his experience through what he's taught and what he's, what he's actually done 00:32:08.220 --> 00:32:14.480 as participant, it's like, Hey Jeff, flip the classroom doesn't work in, in, um, African 00:32:14.480 --> 00:32:15.080 context. 00:32:16.560 --> 00:32:17.540 Lesson learned, bro. 00:32:17.640 --> 00:32:18.600 What do we want to do instead? 00:32:19.300 --> 00:32:20.400 Come up with a proposal. 00:32:20.540 --> 00:32:21.400 Think outside the box. 00:32:21.960 --> 00:32:22.540 Dream big. 00:32:23.620 --> 00:32:25.260 That's what contextualization is. 00:32:25.300 --> 00:32:30.260 Actually, I told my leadership the other day, um, you know, talking about EDM as, as we're 00:32:30.260 --> 00:32:33.540 talking about at the out, we're going to get into that post some of that later, but I was 00:32:33.540 --> 00:32:36.240 like, there's, there's nothing in contextualization. 00:32:37.660 --> 00:32:40.840 There's probably something that's off the table there. 00:32:41.040 --> 00:32:44.600 It's, I don't want to say nothing's off the table at this point. 00:32:44.600 --> 00:32:49.220 I cannot think of something that I would say, no, you're not allowed to do that. 00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:53.960 You know, like I almost want to say like the life church motto, the Craig Groeschel, everything 00:32:53.960 --> 00:32:55.900 short of sin for the kingdom is okay. 00:32:56.580 --> 00:33:01.080 Like, I don't, I don't know what I would say no to. 00:33:01.400 --> 00:33:06.820 There's probably something, but if you're not stretching the limits, uh, if you don't think 00:33:06.820 --> 00:33:09.380 you're stretching the limits of what I would approve, you're not thinking big enough. 00:33:10.080 --> 00:33:16.340 I I've had multiple of his conversations this week and it's so, I love, I love this. 00:33:16.940 --> 00:33:21.900 I love seeing, I've been looking at people like on, on a, on a zoom call, a Google meet, 00:33:21.980 --> 00:33:28.700 we use Google meet, Google meet call and their eyes, they just start to widen when they realize, 00:33:28.900 --> 00:33:34.180 wait, he really means like shake, break it up, shake it up. 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:39.820 I I've been using the language of, um, deconstruct, deconstruct this baby. 00:33:39.820 --> 00:33:40.740 And rebuild it. 00:33:40.940 --> 00:33:45.280 Like when I'm talking contextualizing, you're not, there's not four easy steps. 00:33:45.860 --> 00:33:48.480 It's we're going to help you establish the steps you need. 00:33:48.560 --> 00:33:55.100 Realizing that what Utope needs in Africa is different than what Simon needs in, um, uh, 00:33:55.100 --> 00:33:59.680 Germany and in Europe, which is different than what so-and-so is going to need in, uh, the 00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:01.780 Middle East, which is different than what Abby's going to need. 00:34:01.920 --> 00:34:07.840 Rafiq in the Middle East, Abby in, uh, uh, Southeast Asia, which is different than Oceania, 00:34:07.840 --> 00:34:09.840 which is different than like, you know, insert. 00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:11.540 And I haven't even gotten to the platforms. 00:34:11.620 --> 00:34:14.220 How do we talk about Gen Z and Gen A and gaming? 00:34:14.220 --> 00:34:24.000 And, um, I sat with my, um, I sat with the chair of the board today. 00:34:24.260 --> 00:34:26.380 I had a breakfast with him, Charlie. 00:34:26.600 --> 00:34:30.340 I have breakfast with Charlie probably a couple of times a month. 00:34:30.380 --> 00:34:32.060 Once every couple of weeks, he lives here in Miami. 00:34:32.060 --> 00:34:34.460 We, we, we go, we go way back like a decade or so. 00:34:35.760 --> 00:34:37.920 And, um, I, I can on it. 00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:46.280 Like the, the dreams of 25, I, I, to this day, I'm like, God, I don't, I, this is my prayer. 00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:48.860 God, I don't know how I got here. 00:34:49.120 --> 00:34:52.660 And God, I don't know how you are equipping me. 00:34:52.900 --> 00:34:58.260 I don't know how you are expecting me to do what you are asking me to do. 00:34:58.260 --> 00:35:03.220 Cause this is so out of my league, but God, I'm, I'm going to obey you and in obedience 00:35:03.220 --> 00:35:05.020 to you, I'm going down this road. 00:35:05.700 --> 00:35:07.900 Um, you know, I, I don't know. 00:35:07.980 --> 00:35:12.680 I'm to the level of God, I can't, I need your brother, but, uh, you know, the Moses Aaron 00:35:12.680 --> 00:35:17.380 deal, but it'd be nice to send some people along the way that, that, that can help. 00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:23.540 And, um, you know, everybody on the team at this point has serving such an important role 00:35:23.540 --> 00:35:24.900 and it's fascinating. 00:35:25.040 --> 00:35:32.560 I, I, I literally, I, I can look at these people and I can say, you are, we just brought 00:35:32.560 --> 00:35:37.940 on Stacy, uh, to handle, um, member care and some mental health stuff. 00:35:38.540 --> 00:35:44.660 And, uh, I was, was sitting down with Stacy and I was like, you are literally, I rattled 00:35:44.660 --> 00:35:47.600 off her resume over the past five, seven years. 00:35:47.820 --> 00:35:53.620 I was like, you are literally created by God to do the role that I'm asking you to do. 00:35:55.540 --> 00:36:01.120 Like everything that I know of your history, we can talk about your other history pre when 00:36:01.120 --> 00:36:07.220 you got on my radar, but everything about you has built you to the point where you can 00:36:07.220 --> 00:36:08.700 do the job that I'm asking you to do. 00:36:08.820 --> 00:36:12.460 And it's amazing time after time, after time, the people that I'm talking with right now, 00:36:12.540 --> 00:36:13.600 it's, it's that same way. 00:36:15.720 --> 00:36:21.740 And what's fascinating is that, you know, a pest, they all think different, uh, motivations 00:36:21.740 --> 00:36:23.520 they're, they're, they're, they're driven different. 00:36:24.060 --> 00:36:28.120 And this almost gets back to, this is off topic, but you know, don't surround yourself 00:36:28.120 --> 00:36:28.620 with yes. 00:36:28.620 --> 00:36:33.120 People don't surround yourself with people that agree with you surround yourself with people 00:36:33.120 --> 00:36:38.780 that don't agree with you and challenge them to make you better and be humbled to listen 00:36:38.780 --> 00:36:40.020 to them when you need to. 00:36:40.740 --> 00:36:41.740 It's a hard lesson. 00:36:42.260 --> 00:36:42.780 All right. 00:36:42.940 --> 00:36:44.040 So what does it look like? 00:36:45.020 --> 00:36:46.120 What does it look like? 00:36:46.180 --> 00:36:47.500 I'm, I'm, I'm reigning this back in. 00:36:47.560 --> 00:36:49.100 That was a, that was a diversion. 00:36:49.340 --> 00:36:50.900 I got, I got to come back here a little bit. 00:36:51.360 --> 00:36:56.480 What does it look like to contextualize community? 00:36:57.240 --> 00:36:57.620 All right. 00:36:58.160 --> 00:37:02.240 You know, I, I, last week, oh my gosh, I don't remember who had the conversation with 00:37:02.240 --> 00:37:03.140 live last week. 00:37:03.720 --> 00:37:11.320 Um, but we did, we did a deep dive because they, they didn't agree with some of my perceptions 00:37:11.320 --> 00:37:11.940 of Twitch. 00:37:12.720 --> 00:37:15.540 I view Twitch more as, as a connection platform. 00:37:15.940 --> 00:37:21.340 I, I, to be honest, I've never really seen Twitch, the platform as community. 00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:25.460 Now I can cite, you know, it's a streaming, it's a one way. 00:37:25.640 --> 00:37:29.520 I can't actually hear the person I'm seeing texting coming back. 00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:32.320 Um, and so that's, that's my biases. 00:37:32.320 --> 00:37:33.240 That's my opinion. 00:37:33.600 --> 00:37:39.520 I am not God, nor am I anyone that watches Twitch on any regular basis. 00:37:39.520 --> 00:37:43.860 So I'm not an expert on how Twitch can be used for digital missions and context. 00:37:43.940 --> 00:37:48.740 If you want to talk with anybody that understands how to use Twitch in digital context, you're 00:37:48.740 --> 00:37:53.540 hanging out with, with, uh, uh, with flat cap, you're handed, hanging out with Andy, Chino 00:37:53.540 --> 00:37:54.020 mage. 00:37:54.140 --> 00:37:59.720 Like there's a ton of people inside TCD that know how to do Twitch far better than I do. 00:37:59.840 --> 00:38:00.840 I am not a streamer. 00:38:01.200 --> 00:38:05.920 I, I, I fake this on, uh, on literally I play a streamer on TV. 00:38:06.760 --> 00:38:07.540 Think about it. 00:38:07.980 --> 00:38:14.580 And so I, I, I'm not, I'm not the one to say what can, it cannot be done by community, but 00:38:14.580 --> 00:38:16.600 that's also part of contextualization. 00:38:17.240 --> 00:38:20.680 In my context, I can't use that tool in that way. 00:38:21.600 --> 00:38:27.040 In your context, maybe you can, and, and, and start to ask yourself these questions. 00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:34.680 Can the platform, you know, Twitch in this example, can it allow for, for two way conversations? 00:38:35.020 --> 00:38:43.740 I would say that the, the, the benchmark for a digital community to be an active part of 00:38:43.740 --> 00:38:48.820 the flywheel in order to build trust, in order to establish relationships for digital evangelism 00:38:48.820 --> 00:38:51.580 to be effective, for digital discipleship to be effective. 00:38:51.820 --> 00:38:58.620 If we want to see that happen in a, uh, effective digitally digital community. 00:38:58.860 --> 00:39:03.220 If we want to see that happen in digital community, there has to be some level of two-way conversation. 00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:07.460 And at what varying degree does that happen? 00:39:07.940 --> 00:39:14.060 Now, a lot of the, the Twitch people I know, like Twitch is part of what they're doing, but 00:39:14.060 --> 00:39:15.360 they feed it into discord. 00:39:16.040 --> 00:39:19.440 And so they've got the Twitch, they've got the discord as well. 00:39:19.780 --> 00:39:25.100 What would it look like for, for you to use a platform for a while? 00:39:25.100 --> 00:39:29.320 And, and does that sustain itself or do you need to feed into something else? 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:35.000 Like globally, we're in discord, uh, for a lot of our community in our context, that was 00:39:35.000 --> 00:39:35.860 removing more global. 00:39:36.280 --> 00:39:39.240 We needed to do something more than discord. 00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:41.760 And that's when we, we hit into WhatsApp. 00:39:42.120 --> 00:39:46.440 And now that we're in the discord and WhatsApp, we've got to use YouTube instead of what's built 00:39:46.440 --> 00:39:47.080 into discord. 00:39:47.080 --> 00:39:54.840 And so we start to build some complimentary tools, start to wrestle with some of this. 00:39:55.100 --> 00:39:59.560 How does this look in your context moving forward? 00:40:00.500 --> 00:40:07.560 The other thing that I would suggest to you, and we hit on this a little bit earlier is what 00:40:07.560 --> 00:40:08.340 is the purpose? 00:40:09.140 --> 00:40:10.340 What is the purpose? 00:40:10.500 --> 00:40:14.760 What are you really trying to accomplish with your digital community? 00:40:15.460 --> 00:40:19.980 Are you trying to get people to do something? 00:40:20.360 --> 00:40:23.140 Are you trying to just get people to hang out? 00:40:23.260 --> 00:40:24.880 Are you creating a safe space? 00:40:25.540 --> 00:40:29.460 What are you handing off to in and through the community? 00:40:30.800 --> 00:40:41.560 If, if the only thing you're doing with the community is reinforcing what's happening at the 00:40:41.560 --> 00:40:42.380 connection level. 00:40:42.540 --> 00:40:47.320 So you're creating a connection, community, connection, community, connection, community 00:40:47.320 --> 00:40:48.560 loop. 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:51.660 And there's nothing at, at a deeper level. 00:40:53.220 --> 00:40:56.700 I said it before, man, that's, that's really pointless. 00:40:57.380 --> 00:41:02.040 I mean, at the end of the connection, community, uh, infinity loop that's happening there. 00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:02.680 Yeah. 00:41:02.740 --> 00:41:04.920 You're building up a lot of followers. 00:41:05.140 --> 00:41:07.260 You are building up people. 00:41:07.620 --> 00:41:12.980 Uh, you're gaining followers, but I mean, to pardon the biblical term, I don't know that 00:41:12.980 --> 00:41:14.020 you're making disciples. 00:41:15.080 --> 00:41:21.300 And even if you're promoting connection and community until you're equipping them specifically 00:41:21.300 --> 00:41:24.760 and then mobilizing them and empowering them to do what God's calling them to do, sending 00:41:24.760 --> 00:41:31.060 them out, it's, um, spiritual milk when they should be eating solid food. 00:41:33.340 --> 00:41:35.640 What is your community's purpose? 00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:39.400 Start to wrestle with that. 00:41:39.600 --> 00:41:44.900 Think through that and be challenged to think outside of the box. 00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:57.640 In some of these ideas, look at different ways that you can utilize community to accomplish 00:41:57.640 --> 00:41:59.560 something. 00:42:00.460 --> 00:42:04.100 What's the purpose beyond that connect community loop? 00:42:04.540 --> 00:42:06.980 Give it some sort of a purpose. 00:42:07.660 --> 00:42:14.780 Um, if you're in our system, it's equipping because we want to see, we want to see people 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:18.300 empowered on fire digitally. 00:42:18.300 --> 00:42:19.840 We want to give people purpose. 00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:23.460 Uh, we want to get people on the solid food. 00:42:23.560 --> 00:42:25.820 We want to get people off the spiritual milk. 00:42:25.920 --> 00:42:29.360 And I can tell you so many stories around that. 00:42:30.000 --> 00:42:34.400 Um, there is, it's interesting here. 00:42:34.500 --> 00:42:35.300 Tall skinny Kiwi. 00:42:36.000 --> 00:42:38.100 Uh, let me zap this real quick. 00:42:38.460 --> 00:42:45.960 Uh, with the very first short term mission team, Jesus told them to leave their bags behind. 00:42:46.540 --> 00:42:47.100 Yeah. 00:42:48.080 --> 00:42:50.140 Also, I've got, uh, Steve here. 00:42:50.760 --> 00:42:51.740 Kiwi, we need to hang out. 00:42:51.840 --> 00:42:52.160 Kiwi! 00:42:53.660 --> 00:42:56.020 Dude, I, I sent you a DM on WhatsApp. 00:42:56.980 --> 00:42:59.600 I, or on, on, uh, on, not on WhatsApp, on Discord. 00:43:00.160 --> 00:43:00.960 We got to talk. 00:43:01.660 --> 00:43:02.460 I need you. 00:43:03.580 --> 00:43:05.620 Literally, I had, I had three of our people together. 00:43:06.240 --> 00:43:09.740 And, um, I said, who else needs to be involved in this conversation? 00:43:10.460 --> 00:43:14.140 And, uh, uh, 100% voted we needed tall skinny Kiwi. 00:43:14.240 --> 00:43:15.040 So, let's figure that out. 00:43:15.400 --> 00:43:15.940 Check your DM. 00:43:16.040 --> 00:43:16.960 I'll tag you after this. 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:21.280 Uh, Steve Reed, one of my new friends here in, uh, in TCD. 00:43:21.980 --> 00:43:24.020 Um, it's one of the things I like about your format. 00:43:24.120 --> 00:43:24.880 Nothing's off the table. 00:43:24.980 --> 00:43:25.300 Oh, yeah. 00:43:25.620 --> 00:43:25.840 Yeah. 00:43:26.060 --> 00:43:31.080 If we're not, if we're not challenging people, um, we're not doing it right. 00:43:31.160 --> 00:43:32.320 And, and Kiwi says hello. 00:43:34.120 --> 00:43:34.760 I love that. 00:43:34.820 --> 00:43:35.200 Good morning. 00:43:36.400 --> 00:43:38.300 Kiwi is 15 hours away from me. 00:43:39.300 --> 00:43:40.440 It's 1 p.m. 00:43:40.460 --> 00:43:41.940 So, it's 6, 7 a.m. 00:43:42.680 --> 00:43:43.520 Your time, bro. 00:43:43.920 --> 00:43:44.720 Good morning, Kiwi. 00:43:46.420 --> 00:43:46.900 Melanious. 00:43:47.900 --> 00:43:49.500 Um, I'm listening too. 00:43:49.620 --> 00:43:50.360 So, Melanious is around. 00:43:50.480 --> 00:43:52.800 Yeah, we're starting to get some love here from the YouTube crowd. 00:43:53.260 --> 00:43:55.420 I, I'm going to be honest. 00:43:55.660 --> 00:43:57.460 And, and, and I apologize for this. 00:43:57.580 --> 00:44:04.360 This season, um, I'm going to be more talking, less dialoguing. 00:44:04.840 --> 00:44:07.000 Uh, next season, what's coming up? 00:44:07.480 --> 00:44:10.220 Uh, next season, we're going to be really focusing on questions. 00:44:10.460 --> 00:44:16.220 I'm going to be engaging a lot more, uh, in this, in this season, though. 00:44:16.480 --> 00:44:20.900 I'm going to be kind of banging the drum and getting through this. 00:44:20.900 --> 00:44:23.640 Tall Skinning Kiwis, 8 a.m. in New Zealand. 00:44:23.760 --> 00:44:24.920 So, I hope the coffee's good. 00:44:25.420 --> 00:44:26.680 I'm, I'm, I'm sure it is. 00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:33.600 Listen, some of you are listening to me monologue through all of this, and you're probably thinking, 00:44:33.760 --> 00:44:37.160 well, dang it, Jeff, this sounds like a lot of work. 00:44:39.120 --> 00:44:40.500 I'm not a community builder. 00:44:40.680 --> 00:44:42.360 That's not what I'm called to be. 00:44:42.620 --> 00:44:44.920 I, I just, I'm a, I'm a content creator. 00:44:45.080 --> 00:44:46.700 I don't know anything about Discord. 00:44:46.960 --> 00:44:48.140 I don't know anything about community. 00:44:48.320 --> 00:44:49.460 I'm not interested in this. 00:44:49.560 --> 00:44:50.240 I don't have time. 00:44:51.420 --> 00:44:54.060 If that is you, congratulations. 00:44:54.240 --> 00:44:55.060 You're a normal person. 00:44:55.840 --> 00:44:56.720 Partner with somebody. 00:44:57.520 --> 00:45:01.720 And that, that's, what's really is fascinating about the digital community, the digital mission 00:45:01.720 --> 00:45:02.860 space that we're in right now. 00:45:03.200 --> 00:45:08.720 The collaboration, the willingness to work together is phenomenal. 00:45:09.800 --> 00:45:15.600 And so take this opportunity right now and maybe start to find some people to work with. 00:45:16.380 --> 00:45:20.980 I'll tell you, one of the things that I'd actually would, would invite you to do is even 00:45:20.980 --> 00:45:24.680 with inside the church digital, our communities, there's always an opportunity to connect and 00:45:24.680 --> 00:45:31.060 talk with people at a large scale, but more than that, take our EDM course, equipping digital 00:45:31.060 --> 00:45:35.760 missionaries and start to connect with a cohort of people that are in, in a similar space and 00:45:35.760 --> 00:45:36.440 similar calling. 00:45:36.580 --> 00:45:42.220 And maybe you'll find somebody that, that wants to partner up, or maybe there's an opportunity 00:45:42.220 --> 00:45:47.700 to even work through one of our outposts, uh, in, in different contexts and meet up people 00:45:47.700 --> 00:45:48.520 in that space. 00:45:48.940 --> 00:45:54.580 Like the church digital exists to be a resource for people like you. 00:45:54.680 --> 00:45:57.020 That are doing digital missions work. 00:45:57.640 --> 00:46:04.160 And if you're, if you only want to operate at the connections level, you need to find the 00:46:04.160 --> 00:46:06.800 people that can operate at the community. 00:46:07.020 --> 00:46:15.800 I cannot tell me, tell you how many connections only churches, how many connection only, um, missionaries 00:46:15.800 --> 00:46:25.860 I've seen dry up, I've seen burnout, uh, because they don't have an accountability. 00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:27.920 They don't have a relationship. 00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.020 They don't have a community to feed these people into. 00:46:31.760 --> 00:46:40.800 So important to think through a multiple tier, this flywheel model. 00:46:40.920 --> 00:46:43.820 It's so crucial for the digital ministry space. 00:46:44.240 --> 00:46:44.900 Tall Skin and Kiwi. 00:46:45.160 --> 00:46:50.120 I'm thinking through new ideas of a first person, virtual church, vicarious model based on streaming 00:46:50.120 --> 00:46:55.820 and watching a single avatar go through an interactive church experience. 00:46:55.820 --> 00:46:57.080 Just love to chat through that. 00:46:57.560 --> 00:46:59.200 I swear I fricking love Kiwi, man. 00:46:59.260 --> 00:47:02.300 He's just always, always thinking outside the box. 00:47:02.360 --> 00:47:04.360 He was thinking outside the box on this stuff before. 00:47:04.700 --> 00:47:07.220 I don't want to say before I was born, but yeah. 00:47:07.380 --> 00:47:11.240 I mean, dude's been doing it a really, really long time. 00:47:11.740 --> 00:47:14.080 Uh, digital ministry podcast, Utope. 00:47:14.480 --> 00:47:15.220 Hey, Jeff. 00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:15.720 Hey everyone. 00:47:15.920 --> 00:47:18.020 Utope actually was talking about you earlier on the show. 00:47:18.400 --> 00:47:21.260 Uh, you'll have to go back and, and scrub to, to get caught up on it. 00:47:21.740 --> 00:47:24.460 Um, but this is, this is the core of it. 00:47:24.520 --> 00:47:31.780 You know, last week we talked about connection and in this, in this flywheel of how do we 00:47:31.780 --> 00:47:35.100 get perpetual motion, centripetal force. 00:47:35.100 --> 00:47:39.720 I'll discover how to say that word at some point, but how do we keep it spinning? 00:47:40.260 --> 00:47:42.200 How do we get ministry going? 00:47:42.920 --> 00:47:44.420 It takes a while to get started. 00:47:44.560 --> 00:47:50.660 It takes some work, may take some partnerships, but the idea of connecting with people, uh, using 00:47:50.660 --> 00:47:57.080 social media, using blogs, using podcasts, using streams, using gaming, using whatever it is, 00:47:57.080 --> 00:48:01.300 and use that to feed into a community. 00:48:02.500 --> 00:48:07.420 The communities where we establish trust, we build relationships, evangelism, discipleship 00:48:07.420 --> 00:48:08.680 happens best in community. 00:48:08.880 --> 00:48:15.060 And then with all that feeding them into some sort of an equipping process to church digital, 00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:19.160 we'll give you ours, equipping digital missionaries and that. 00:48:19.400 --> 00:48:24.020 And so you're starting to now train them on how to do this and then mobilize them and send 00:48:24.020 --> 00:48:24.580 them out. 00:48:25.400 --> 00:48:33.120 This is a incredible opportunity for people to do effective ministry digitally. 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:35.500 They can be contexted. 00:48:35.720 --> 00:48:36.820 They can be white labeled. 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:39.280 They can be reshaped in all of this. 00:48:39.820 --> 00:48:43.600 And so, Hey, this past week was connection. 00:48:43.740 --> 00:48:44.440 Today was community. 00:48:44.440 --> 00:48:46.920 Next week, we're going to get into equipping. 00:48:47.080 --> 00:48:48.300 I'm excited about this one. 00:48:48.620 --> 00:48:50.640 We're going to let some of the, uh, sorry. 00:48:50.720 --> 00:48:51.780 I said the cat out of the bag. 00:48:51.860 --> 00:48:53.540 We're gonna let some of the secret out of the sauce. 00:48:53.680 --> 00:48:58.020 I don't, I hate cats and, um, I guess secret out of the sauce. 00:48:58.080 --> 00:48:58.620 That's not bad. 00:49:01.000 --> 00:49:02.800 I really feel like that needed to get worked on better. 00:49:03.220 --> 00:49:04.880 I have no idea how to transition out of this. 00:49:05.200 --> 00:49:06.360 So, Hey, I'm just going to wrap. 00:49:06.500 --> 00:49:07.740 I mean, I hope this was a good one. 00:49:07.820 --> 00:49:10.880 Thanks for coming in and hanging out with me today. 00:49:11.060 --> 00:49:17.400 Uh, but for me and everybody else who was hanging out here, uh, with the church, uh, digital 00:49:17.400 --> 00:49:22.080 podcast, thanks for jumping on here and, uh, we'll talk with you later. 00:49:22.080 --> 00:49:23.280 Bye.