WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.400 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:07.260 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the Church. 00:00:07.600 --> 00:00:11.040 But more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:11.680 --> 00:00:13.300 Is disciple-making possible digitally? 00:00:13.780 --> 00:00:15.720 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:16.020 --> 00:00:18.620 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:19.060 --> 00:00:22.840 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:25.840 Whether you're a big or small church, 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:30.660 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:32.540 digitally and physically. 00:00:33.060 --> 00:00:34.660 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:34.980 --> 00:00:35.960 All right. Hey, everybody. 00:00:36.560 --> 00:00:37.960 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:38.940 I think you can hear me. 00:00:39.000 --> 00:00:42.800 We're doing a live stream here, episode 329. 00:00:43.120 --> 00:00:45.560 I hope things are going well in your circles. 00:00:45.660 --> 00:00:47.600 We've got a great show coming up here. 00:00:48.100 --> 00:00:51.460 We've got John Crawford from Reliant, 00:00:51.460 --> 00:00:55.660 a friend, a ministry partner we've got here coming in. 00:00:55.840 --> 00:00:59.620 We're going to talk about how digital missionaries can get funding, 00:00:59.940 --> 00:01:01.340 how you can get funded, 00:01:01.660 --> 00:01:06.860 what does it look like to raise funds, 00:01:07.560 --> 00:01:09.720 and how can the Church Digital help? 00:01:09.800 --> 00:01:12.900 And so we're going to get into that conversation here in a little bit. 00:01:13.760 --> 00:01:15.140 Now, I'm already coughing, 00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:17.940 and I don't have a cough button hooked up, 00:01:17.940 --> 00:01:23.760 but we've got our good friend Steve Reed opening up the conversation here in chat. 00:01:24.360 --> 00:01:26.120 If you're here, I hope you're feeling better. 00:01:26.220 --> 00:01:27.040 If you're like me, 00:01:27.580 --> 00:01:30.220 going to urgent care means it's pretty bad. 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:32.180 I was in urgent care actually last night. 00:01:33.220 --> 00:01:40.100 I have had a cough for I think this is day 10, day 11. 00:01:40.700 --> 00:01:44.140 I had a vacation, and then I had a road trip a couple weeks ago 00:01:44.140 --> 00:01:46.440 and came off of that road trip. 00:01:46.560 --> 00:01:50.560 I was in Dallas where it was like literally it was negative degrees. 00:01:50.760 --> 00:01:55.680 It was when I got to Dallas, it was negative 15, negative 10 Fahrenheit. 00:01:56.220 --> 00:02:02.480 And I've been kind of AWOL as a result, just constantly coughing. 00:02:02.740 --> 00:02:05.740 And so I still don't have meds in me. 00:02:05.820 --> 00:02:07.320 They said, hey, Jeff, you've got bronchitis, 00:02:07.460 --> 00:02:08.460 but at least there wasn't pneumonia. 00:02:09.080 --> 00:02:12.180 And so I'll get my meds here in a little bit. 00:02:12.240 --> 00:02:13.640 The pharmacy is working on it right now. 00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:18.100 But if you see me popping or you hear me like crunching on cough drops, 00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:19.980 I've been eating like 50 of these a day. 00:02:20.020 --> 00:02:20.640 You don't really care. 00:02:20.640 --> 00:02:22.480 I just thought I'd share with you. 00:02:23.180 --> 00:02:30.140 But I do want to say that rumors of my demise are greatly exaggerated at this point. 00:02:31.480 --> 00:02:33.920 What doesn't kill me will only make me stronger. 00:02:34.120 --> 00:02:36.420 And so Connor Lott, hey, how are you doing, man? 00:02:36.860 --> 00:02:38.700 Connor, I feel like it's been a minute since we've talked. 00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:40.880 Hope things are going well for you. 00:02:40.940 --> 00:02:45.600 But here with the Church Digital, I want to bring on John just in a minute. 00:02:45.700 --> 00:02:47.700 But hey, let me dig into this a little bit. 00:02:47.700 --> 00:02:52.940 We are doing a digital missionary conference, man, right around the corner. 00:02:53.180 --> 00:03:02.580 It's coming up April 2nd over at – and so we're doing a one-day completely online conference. 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:04.840 It's going to be on two stages. 00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:10.800 We're going to be doing a digital broadcast stage on our platform, Alter Live. 00:03:10.880 --> 00:03:13.000 Our good friends over at Alter Live, if you know them, great. 00:03:13.060 --> 00:03:13.940 If not, it doesn't matter. 00:03:14.440 --> 00:03:18.260 And then we're also doing in virtual reality, in spatial. 00:03:18.260 --> 00:03:32.260 And so it's going to be a free conference all day, 11 to 5 roughly, on Tuesday, April 2nd. 00:03:33.220 --> 00:03:37.340 And so for more information, man, we've got 10 speakers. 00:03:37.640 --> 00:03:39.200 I'm currently lining up more. 00:03:40.500 --> 00:03:42.620 Jason Morris had this great idea for a speaker. 00:03:42.760 --> 00:03:46.960 I am not allowed to tell you who it is at this point. 00:03:47.480 --> 00:03:51.320 I'm hoping we can work out the details by Thursday. 00:03:51.700 --> 00:03:54.460 And so I'm doing a stream on Thursday. 00:03:54.680 --> 00:03:58.460 We're going to roll out more information on the conference so you can check it out. 00:03:58.540 --> 00:04:00.260 I'm going to stream Mondays and Thursdays. 00:04:00.720 --> 00:04:03.260 Leaking – you know how I like to leak information. 00:04:03.340 --> 00:04:07.600 We're going to leak information on Mondays and Thursdays for the conference. 00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:17.160 And so for more information, at least what we are publicly allowed to say at this point, go swing over to the website missionary.digital. 00:04:17.460 --> 00:04:19.920 You've likely been blown up on email. 00:04:20.180 --> 00:04:21.600 You've seen it all over our socials. 00:04:22.260 --> 00:04:23.840 You're seeing it in the communities. 00:04:24.100 --> 00:04:25.960 Missionary.digital. 00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:31.080 We're connecting 1,000 digital missionaries from literally around the globe. 00:04:31.420 --> 00:04:43.400 And by the way, I do want to publicly say this so that it's understood, all the speakers, all the content, everything that's going to happen at the conference, it's only for registered. 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:49.240 Like, we're not going to roll this out on demand afterwards where it's going to turn into YouTube content. 00:04:49.920 --> 00:04:55.420 Like, if you want to know what's said at the conference, you've got to register. 00:04:55.420 --> 00:05:02.200 And by the way, registration's free, and so you can do that over at missionary.digital. 00:05:02.320 --> 00:05:04.000 And so, hey, check out the website. 00:05:04.200 --> 00:05:07.540 We're going to get more into that in the days to come. 00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:14.400 April 2nd is, like, less than 30 days away, I think, is what popped up on my calendar the other day. 00:05:14.460 --> 00:05:23.240 And it kind of gave me chest pains a little bit because we ain't ready, but we are getting very close to it, I hope, as we're heading into that. 00:05:23.240 --> 00:05:24.380 But, hey, let me do this. 00:05:24.460 --> 00:05:29.080 Let me go ahead and bring on my friend John Crawford into the conversation. 00:05:29.260 --> 00:05:30.120 So, John, you there? 00:05:30.240 --> 00:05:31.020 There you are, my friend. 00:05:31.080 --> 00:05:31.480 How's it going? 00:05:32.720 --> 00:05:33.000 Yep. 00:05:33.100 --> 00:05:33.740 Hey, good. 00:05:33.800 --> 00:05:34.260 How are you? 00:05:34.960 --> 00:05:35.420 Doing good. 00:05:35.420 --> 00:05:37.220 Well, other than the urgent care, obviously. 00:05:37.220 --> 00:05:39.120 Yeah, urgent care, you know, whatever. 00:05:39.880 --> 00:05:50.040 They want me to, like, wear the mask to, like, get the things in and the inhalers and the little pills, the pearls that help you not cough. 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:52.800 And they got all that junk in my system. 00:05:53.020 --> 00:05:54.520 And so, coming soon. 00:05:54.620 --> 00:05:55.600 We'll get there when we get there. 00:05:56.600 --> 00:05:56.960 Yes. 00:05:57.400 --> 00:05:57.700 It's good. 00:05:57.820 --> 00:06:00.220 Yeah, we have all the asthma and allergies in our house. 00:06:00.260 --> 00:06:01.660 I'm familiar with all those tools. 00:06:02.620 --> 00:06:02.960 Yes. 00:06:03.140 --> 00:06:03.440 Yeah, yeah. 00:06:03.440 --> 00:06:04.600 I've been down that road. 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:11.440 Ironically, my wife was in urgent care for a completely separate set of issues Friday. 00:06:11.660 --> 00:06:20.260 She's been having a lot of back pain, which was my story, like, six months ago, and where I just had brutal back pain for a couple months. 00:06:20.540 --> 00:06:21.860 And, John, how old are you? 00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:26.320 You look younger, but maybe that's deceiving. 00:06:26.320 --> 00:06:28.480 Like, where are you on the grand scheme? 00:06:28.920 --> 00:06:29.920 Just the beauty. 00:06:30.140 --> 00:06:30.680 It deceives. 00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:32.440 No, I'm coming up on 35. 00:06:32.680 --> 00:06:35.360 So, I'll hit 35 here in this month, just a few weeks. 00:06:36.040 --> 00:06:36.980 Man, listen. 00:06:37.200 --> 00:06:38.080 I don't know about you. 00:06:38.200 --> 00:06:38.960 Well, you don't know. 00:06:39.080 --> 00:06:40.120 You haven't discovered it. 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:44.120 In my 30s, when I was your age, I was running half marathons, man. 00:06:44.280 --> 00:06:48.140 I was, like, you know, running 100 miles a month. 00:06:48.140 --> 00:06:53.980 I was probably the best health I was ever when I was 35, 37. 00:06:55.200 --> 00:06:56.000 Yeah, definitely. 00:06:57.020 --> 00:06:57.520 Sorry, go ahead. 00:06:57.920 --> 00:06:58.560 No, go for it. 00:06:58.760 --> 00:06:59.060 Tell me. 00:06:59.960 --> 00:07:04.720 I was going to say, mid-30s is definitely that age where I'm starting to notice and feel the things, right? 00:07:04.780 --> 00:07:05.940 Like, there are differences. 00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:11.260 I don't recover the same, but I am running half marathons and had a long run this weekend. 00:07:11.580 --> 00:07:15.400 And I'm like, okay, it's harder to fight through that knee pain, but I can still. 00:07:15.560 --> 00:07:17.260 And so, I'm trying to soak that up. 00:07:17.340 --> 00:07:21.900 The more that I got here and I was afraid of here, now I'm here and I'm doing okay and I'm looking ahead. 00:07:22.140 --> 00:07:23.020 And it's like, I don't know. 00:07:23.040 --> 00:07:23.300 We'll see. 00:07:23.420 --> 00:07:23.920 We'll see how it goes. 00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:24.080 Yeah. 00:07:24.660 --> 00:07:26.920 This is a true story, I promise you. 00:07:27.020 --> 00:07:32.840 I am at the mall at Wellington Green, and it is the month I turn 40. 00:07:33.400 --> 00:07:35.440 I have my kids. 00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:43.240 We're actually driving from Miami up to go up to vacation up on the east coast of Florida up at the beach. 00:07:43.920 --> 00:07:46.320 And so, we stop off at the mall at Wellington Green. 00:07:46.420 --> 00:07:48.160 I used to own a business there at the mall. 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:52.240 We're showing the kids where I used to own the business and did the work there at the mall. 00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:58.060 And my son and I, in the parking lot, decide we're going to race to the car. 00:07:58.160 --> 00:08:00.820 My son is probably five years old. 00:08:01.240 --> 00:08:02.880 And so, we're in the parking lot. 00:08:02.980 --> 00:08:04.240 There's no traffic around. 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:05.460 Nobody's going to die. 00:08:05.960 --> 00:08:10.680 And so, he and I just take off running, like, maybe a couple weeks away from turning 40. 00:08:11.660 --> 00:08:17.800 And he decides that, as all five-year-olds are, that he has to beat daddy. 00:08:18.300 --> 00:08:23.680 And so, he got a good lead on me because he was quick out of the gates. 00:08:23.680 --> 00:08:26.000 I think he jumped on two instead of three. 00:08:27.140 --> 00:08:34.660 And as I was catching up with him, you know, the size that I am, but still mobile, he decides he's going to cut into my lane. 00:08:36.120 --> 00:08:37.700 And I tripped over him. 00:08:37.840 --> 00:08:39.340 I fell on my knees. 00:08:39.700 --> 00:08:47.880 That moment, my son cutting me off in the parking lot at the mall at Wellington Green was the moment that my body self-destructed. 00:08:48.500 --> 00:08:50.680 And everything went downhill from there. 00:08:51.020 --> 00:08:53.800 Literally, teeth started falling out of my mouth. 00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:56.320 My eyes, I started going blind. 00:08:56.840 --> 00:09:00.440 Like, hair, whatever hair I had left, just decided to run away. 00:09:00.680 --> 00:09:04.640 Like, it just, the moment you turn 40, my friend, it all goes downhill. 00:09:04.840 --> 00:09:06.200 So, get ready for that. 00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:08.120 Like, you just survived Jesus. 00:09:08.460 --> 00:09:09.820 Like, Jesus died at 33. 00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:10.460 Congratulations. 00:09:10.820 --> 00:09:11.760 You made it past that. 00:09:11.820 --> 00:09:12.720 You're at 35 now. 00:09:13.280 --> 00:09:14.980 It just, it's all downhill from here. 00:09:15.300 --> 00:09:16.540 So, sorry to do that to you. 00:09:17.660 --> 00:09:18.360 Hey, it's all right. 00:09:18.480 --> 00:09:19.980 I'm, you know, I'm working on it. 00:09:20.000 --> 00:09:23.120 I've been contemplating, you know, here's the, keep going in that. 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:24.660 I've been contemplating death lately. 00:09:24.660 --> 00:09:28.320 We're coming into Lent and we're coming into all the things. 00:09:28.320 --> 00:09:31.140 And I'm like, yeah, I'm processing it. 00:09:31.200 --> 00:09:31.540 It's good. 00:09:33.360 --> 00:09:34.180 Contemplating death. 00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:34.860 Okay. 00:09:35.020 --> 00:09:38.320 So, on a brighter note, John. 00:09:41.060 --> 00:09:43.580 Oh, man, we got really dark in a hurry. 00:09:43.680 --> 00:09:44.780 Hey, Troy, how's it going? 00:09:45.380 --> 00:09:48.540 Yeah, Troy, Troy's like 12 or, Troy's 18. 00:09:48.740 --> 00:09:49.380 I'm sorry, Troy. 00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:50.620 I didn't mean to offend you. 00:09:50.720 --> 00:09:52.100 Troy is an 18-year-old. 00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:54.520 High school kid was my point. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:00.820 And so, let's not be any more morbid for the rest of this. 00:10:01.820 --> 00:10:04.400 Troy, go back to school. 00:10:05.200 --> 00:10:11.080 Troy, there is no reason for you to be streaming me right now instead of watching this stream. 00:10:11.520 --> 00:10:13.000 Get your butt back in class. 00:10:13.920 --> 00:10:14.980 It's that simple, bro. 00:10:15.040 --> 00:10:18.020 You graduate, like, in six months, three months, two months. 00:10:18.160 --> 00:10:19.520 You can watch me all day long. 00:10:19.580 --> 00:10:20.040 I don't care. 00:10:20.160 --> 00:10:22.340 But right now, class, do that. 00:10:22.420 --> 00:10:23.400 Don't make me mad at you, Troy. 00:10:23.860 --> 00:10:26.280 Hey, listen, John, I'm sorry. 00:10:26.400 --> 00:10:33.320 Yeah, John, what we want to talk about, the whole thing, we're doing a season here on questions. 00:10:33.780 --> 00:10:36.160 Like, what are the questions we as digital missionaries hear? 00:10:36.300 --> 00:10:42.340 And to be honest, one of the questions that I hear a lot, that I hear a lot of us struggling with, is funding. 00:10:42.860 --> 00:10:44.440 How do we get funded? 00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:50.400 We have a passion to do this ministry, and the ministry takes time, and we're seeing fruit from it. 00:10:50.500 --> 00:10:53.180 But funding isn't necessarily there. 00:10:53.520 --> 00:10:57.900 And so I remember Leighton, we were, as leadership, we were wrestling with this. 00:10:58.100 --> 00:11:05.440 And there was a season where I was like, man, I'm going to have to, like, create this, like, massive organizational shift with the church digital. 00:11:05.540 --> 00:11:09.400 We're going to have to do, like, all this accounting work and start to open this up where people can fundraise. 00:11:09.400 --> 00:11:13.180 And Leighton's like, you ever heard of Reliant, Jeff? 00:11:13.400 --> 00:11:15.940 I think this guy, John, does that. 00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:22.500 And so that was music to my ears because I love the fact that I don't have to do that. 00:11:22.620 --> 00:11:25.260 So, John, kick us off here a little bit. 00:11:25.320 --> 00:11:28.880 Maybe tell us a little bit about yourself and a little bit about Reliant. 00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:30.660 What exactly does Reliant do? 00:11:32.100 --> 00:11:32.840 Yeah, absolutely. 00:11:33.060 --> 00:11:41.000 So I, myself, I live in Indianapolis and moved here to plant a church and to plant a missional-oriented church, right? 00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:54.200 To plant a movement of being a person of God into a place where it was unfamiliar, unknown, you know, especially in kind of urban context, de-churched and those sorts of places. 00:11:54.200 --> 00:11:57.500 And so moved here years ago with my family, have three kids. 00:11:57.580 --> 00:12:01.640 We live here in Indianapolis and continue to do that. 00:12:01.740 --> 00:12:05.340 I continue to live missionally in the place that I am and what that looks like. 00:12:05.340 --> 00:12:11.580 And I get to do that while also working with this organization called Reliant that has helped me plant a church. 00:12:11.580 --> 00:12:23.100 When I had an idea, a thing that God was doing that looked maybe non-traditional, which we can get into that whole conversation about what means traditional or not traditional, but non-traditional or a different sort of a thing. 00:12:23.360 --> 00:12:37.660 Reliant was able to help support me in the fact of teaching me how to raise my support, as well as then handling all the kind of back-end administrative details of handling those funds, making payroll happen, all those sorts of things. 00:12:37.660 --> 00:12:46.040 Which, as you can imagine, the kind of person that's like, I just want to go be in coffee shops and sit on the front porch with people who are far from God and be present to them. 00:12:46.140 --> 00:12:48.380 Go be in a space and be present to people. 00:12:49.320 --> 00:12:51.820 How to do payroll is not the top of my strengths. 00:12:51.820 --> 00:12:55.980 And so having somebody that was coming alongside, able to help me with those things, do that. 00:12:56.040 --> 00:13:05.280 Not that you can't be really good at payroll and sitting on the porch with people, to be clear, but it wasn't the kind of thing that I was wanting to spend my day doing. 00:13:05.280 --> 00:13:19.880 And so that's what Reliant does, is we come in and we help folks who have a mission and we come and help support them by training and coaching on how to raise that support, as well as then handling all the operational drag, as I like to say, of what it means to be a nonprofit. 00:13:20.100 --> 00:13:32.480 The operational drag of what it means to be receiving funding and not have the government come after you, to be able to have a retirement account and health insurance and all that sort of stuff that is all really good and beneficial. 00:13:32.900 --> 00:13:39.520 But if you have to maintain it and run it on your own, it's really overwhelming and not the kind of thing that we want our partners having to do. 00:13:39.640 --> 00:13:42.240 We want our partners being able to focus on the ministry that they're doing. 00:13:42.740 --> 00:13:43.820 And so we take care of that. 00:13:44.000 --> 00:13:44.880 So that's what we do. 00:13:45.040 --> 00:13:47.360 That's how I got into Reliant and what that looks like. 00:13:47.420 --> 00:13:57.900 And so then with Reliant now, I get to go out and hang out with folks like Jeff and Leighton, Blackcap, you know, and all these others and just see, hey, what's God doing in this space? 00:13:57.900 --> 00:14:04.300 How can we potentially be a part of that and help and just see new partnerships and ultimately make more ministry happen? 00:14:04.800 --> 00:14:16.800 I love this because, you know, so often with digital missionaries, like there's, I don't mean this rudely, but like we're not really an administrative group. 00:14:16.800 --> 00:14:34.600 Like if you look as a general rule, like people that like streaming or people that like creating graphics on social media or even like writers, often we lean into more artistic or community, very relational, very, you know, high relational type people. 00:14:34.600 --> 00:14:37.380 We're not administrative. 00:14:38.860 --> 00:15:00.300 And so the opportunity, you know, nevermind the fundraising, but even like managing the back office and having to deal with like, you know, a lot of the reporting and some of this stuff, like there's a really exciting opportunity to come alongside an organization who can handle some of the difficulties. 00:15:00.300 --> 00:15:15.220 But, you know, before we jumped on here, John, you and I were talking about, you know, the pivot between physical churches doing digital ministry and now really like the audience we're really focusing on is digital missionary. 00:15:15.220 --> 00:15:21.440 And, you know, like a physical church, we're doing EDM right now, equipping digital missionaries. 00:15:21.440 --> 00:15:33.940 I'm leading a cohort and one of the cohort, probably I would say is probably 10 different churches that are going through out of the 40 or 50 people that are going through EDM. 00:15:33.940 --> 00:15:44.880 And so there's this, this exploration of physical churches trying to figure out what digital missionary work could look like, but the physical pastors that are, you know, 00:15:44.880 --> 00:15:50.800 doing digital ministry in the space, like they've most likely got funding covered as a result of the church. 00:15:50.800 --> 00:16:01.880 People give money to the church and the church has a budget where they break all that up and, and, you know, the, the online pastors get a, you know, a salary payment from that. 00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:07.420 Well, in, in digital missionary space, we don't, we don't have that luxury. 00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:18.900 And so actually just this morning, I was on a call with a, with a guy in India who was, who was struggling with how to fundraise and how to start to have some of those conversations. 00:16:18.900 --> 00:16:25.900 I'm actually talking with a guy tomorrow who's in Pakistan, who's, who's struggling in some of those situations. 00:16:25.900 --> 00:16:39.820 And so there's, there's this idea of missionary fundraising and, and, and to be honest, John, like this was a, this was a foreign concept to me up until maybe a couple of years ago. 00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:45.400 What, what, what does like missionary fundraising, what, what does this even like look like? 00:16:45.420 --> 00:16:46.840 Can you walk me through a little bit here? 00:16:48.060 --> 00:16:49.020 Yeah, absolutely. 00:16:49.020 --> 00:17:07.720 So, I mean, missionary fundraising, especially in this context, right, is pretty old in the sense of like in the Christian tradition, in the Christian tradition of saying, hey, here's a group of the people of God that have a set aside calling or a set aside mission that is different. 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:15.120 That is different from the day-to-day way of being the people of God in some ways that is different than how we present. 00:17:15.240 --> 00:17:18.280 And one of the first places that we look at that is the Levites, right? 00:17:18.280 --> 00:17:29.740 And so then we take the Levites and we start to look at some pretty, that's a lot of where we get a lot of the images of priesthood, a lot of the basis for priesthood, not just images of the basis for priesthood. 00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:36.820 We get a lot of this sort of thing, but really what we begin seeing is the people of God saying, hey, there's goodness in the world. 00:17:37.120 --> 00:17:39.260 And there's a lot of things that we do in our common life together. 00:17:39.400 --> 00:17:48.140 We work jobs and we shepherd and we do these things, but there is something about these people set aside for a task of what it means to be the people of God. 00:17:48.280 --> 00:17:53.220 We're witnessing among who we are and going and being a witness and doing those things. 00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.340 And the Levites, not as much an example of that particularly, right? 00:17:56.420 --> 00:17:59.180 But then we start to see missionaries throughout the New Testament. 00:17:59.380 --> 00:18:07.400 You have the person of Paul who is writing New Testament letters and asking for funding for the things that he's going to do. 00:18:07.520 --> 00:18:20.080 And I think one of the things that we often talk about with Paul is we talk about Paul as tent maker, but even in Paul's ministry is a move more and more towards this funding from the people of God to keep doing the work that God is doing. 00:18:20.200 --> 00:18:23.080 This is the way Paul is saying, I'm set aside. 00:18:23.200 --> 00:18:25.360 I'm moving towards this thing and what that looks like. 00:18:25.360 --> 00:18:37.980 And that has then continued to be a trend in the people of God towards, hey, these people are going to take the gospel, to go and be a witness to the presence of Christ in a place. 00:18:38.480 --> 00:18:41.460 And that has been missionaries for a long time. 00:18:42.320 --> 00:18:51.420 And then when we talk about now missionary fundraising within the digital context, as you and I know, and we start to see some of the church catching up to that idea. 00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:59.780 But when we say there's a lobby of a game, there's a lobby, there's a chat or discord to be in, there's these things. 00:18:59.940 --> 00:19:02.880 Like these are spaces where God is present and at work. 00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:09.400 We can go join into and be present and be that person that God is calling into that space to go. 00:19:09.960 --> 00:19:11.620 And so then missionary fundraising, right? 00:19:11.640 --> 00:19:14.260 This is just kind of a thing around who are people that are set aside? 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:15.180 What does that look like? 00:19:15.200 --> 00:19:16.700 And how does that then play out here? 00:19:16.800 --> 00:19:35.840 And so somebody is going to do digital missions and whatever capacity that is, as we know the, I think there was somebody on a stream that I had with y'all probably a month or two back that talked about that idea between IRL and the idea of IRL and online as not different. 00:19:36.140 --> 00:19:37.080 Like there's not real life. 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:39.700 No, digital is the place we're being. 00:19:39.820 --> 00:19:42.940 It is the things that things are happening in, right? 00:19:42.940 --> 00:19:47.060 Sure, you're not tangibly touching the person in front of you, but it is life. 00:19:47.180 --> 00:19:47.860 This is living here. 00:19:47.960 --> 00:19:49.240 And so then go be a missionary there. 00:19:49.380 --> 00:19:58.440 And so then missionary fundraising is to say, hey, people of God and sometimes not people of God, here's this thing that I feel called to. 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:00.040 Here's the need in this space. 00:20:00.140 --> 00:20:12.180 And you start to look at books of the New Testament that are some ways, parts of them at least at a minimum are fundraising support letters saying, here's the need for the gospel in this place. 00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:15.580 Here's the need for the good news of Jesus in this place. 00:20:16.460 --> 00:20:23.940 Here's the answer to that need, which I think is me going and being a person of Christ here, going and being in this space. 00:20:24.560 --> 00:20:27.680 Will you be a part of that and inviting people into that? 00:20:27.760 --> 00:20:31.620 You're not saying, hey, will you, it's not begging for money. 00:20:31.840 --> 00:20:38.020 It's not saying, hey, will you please do this thing so that, you know, I can have cushy things and all that. 00:20:38.060 --> 00:20:40.680 And it's like, no, it's like, hey, God is doing something. 00:20:41.140 --> 00:20:42.900 Will you join me in that? 00:20:43.100 --> 00:20:44.740 Be a part of this with me as a partner. 00:20:45.000 --> 00:20:54.020 And so that's what missionary fundraising is in a long rambly way is inviting somebody into what God is doing, just like we always have been as the people of God. 00:20:54.460 --> 00:20:56.260 Now we're just talking about it digitally. 00:20:56.340 --> 00:21:05.900 Yeah, I mean, it's this beautiful opportunity to invite people to partner with you to be part of what you're doing in ministry. 00:21:05.900 --> 00:21:20.060 And so, you know, I tell you, for me, oftentimes people don't understand what it is that we're doing with the church digital and, you know, with gamers and streamers and TikTokers. 00:21:20.300 --> 00:21:32.620 And so, you know, it's beautiful with me anytime I have a conversation, even with, honestly, the most ardent against the idea of digital church people. 00:21:34.100 --> 00:21:50.660 After about 10 minutes of conversation with them, kind of working through some of their issues, helping them recognize that the idea of digital relationships, you know, a micro view of digital as opposed to like a macro, like it's a whisper, not a megaphone type of deal. 00:21:50.720 --> 00:21:51.840 You've heard me have this conversation. 00:21:52.820 --> 00:21:55.800 But people are open to the idea. 00:21:55.980 --> 00:21:59.760 And oftentimes it's, you know, I hear the words, oh, I've never thought of it that way. 00:21:59.760 --> 00:22:16.760 And really, instead of recognizing that people are pushing off against you, taking the time to dialogue with them and inviting them to partner with you to maybe start to even fund some of the stuff that you're doing. 00:22:17.400 --> 00:22:26.120 You know, I know that there's, through the church digital, we feel this, where it takes time to build that relationship, to share the stories, to show the stats. 00:22:26.700 --> 00:22:32.440 But people are open and receptive to the idea of partnering with that. 00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:49.420 And so, like, John, what are some basic practices or idea of, like, developing that relationships with partners, partnering with people, developing relationships with individuals to get them to the place of, like, that doesn't happen overnight. 00:22:49.660 --> 00:22:55.120 I just, I can't tell you how many times, you know, people have told me historically, Jeff, it takes time. 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.960 Jeff, it takes time. 00:22:56.040 --> 00:22:56.680 Jeff, it takes time. 00:22:56.740 --> 00:22:57.280 I get it. 00:22:58.120 --> 00:23:07.000 But what are some things that we can do to start that road, to build relationships with people so that they can start to help fund us? 00:23:08.220 --> 00:23:08.880 Yeah, absolutely. 00:23:09.020 --> 00:23:11.200 I mean, I think there's a ton of things within that. 00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:16.680 But I think a few things that stick out to me, as always, when we talk about this, is people give to people. 00:23:17.040 --> 00:23:24.380 When we talk about this sort of support raising, this sort of raising funds as a missionary, people give to people. 00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:27.560 And so, part of what I mean by that is two different things. 00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:28.740 They want to know you. 00:23:29.000 --> 00:23:29.680 Who are you? 00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:32.340 Who are you in this ministry and the need of that ministry? 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:33.400 And what does that look like? 00:23:33.800 --> 00:23:39.060 Two, they, people, it makes a difference when you connect with them personally. 00:23:39.660 --> 00:23:43.320 And so, the idea of, especially in the digital world, right, we're used to this. 00:23:43.420 --> 00:23:49.260 We're used to the idea of, like, hey, we can put something out there and we know the potential of millions of people that will see it. 00:23:49.460 --> 00:23:57.860 But the reality is, is that we also know that engagement into retention, into all that stuff, is very, very, very, very, very low, typically. 00:23:58.380 --> 00:24:01.540 And what people really want is beginning to connect with the person. 00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:03.340 It's having that message. 00:24:03.540 --> 00:24:04.980 It's having that call with them. 00:24:05.080 --> 00:24:06.200 It's doing that sort of stuff. 00:24:06.540 --> 00:24:15.080 Fostering relationships with people and having that relationship sort of one-on-one that they get to know you as well as they have relationship with you. 00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:16.320 And that makes a big difference. 00:24:16.460 --> 00:24:26.500 I think that's one of the core big pieces of starting that is kind of having some intentionality in that relationship because people give to people and it takes time. 00:24:26.720 --> 00:24:28.860 All relationships take intentionality, right? 00:24:28.900 --> 00:24:36.640 Any relationship that we have, we think we have this idea of kind of the best friendships are just these magical things that happen all of a sudden and come. 00:24:36.960 --> 00:24:38.260 But even then, it takes time. 00:24:38.460 --> 00:24:40.460 You take time to invest in intentionality. 00:24:40.900 --> 00:24:52.060 And so then, as we build these relationships with people that want to become partners in the work that God is doing, taking time to let them know you and to build a relationship, that's one first step, I think, that really matters. 00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:56.280 Instead of assuming, well, if I just put enough stuff out there, people will pay attention. 00:24:57.040 --> 00:25:07.380 And at some point, maybe, maybe, but towards this sort of style, building relationships over time with people that can support you in the long run, I think is really beneficial. 00:25:07.660 --> 00:25:10.540 So that's just what I can keep going or we can reflect there for a second if we want. 00:25:10.540 --> 00:25:11.120 Give me one more. 00:25:11.200 --> 00:25:12.740 Give me one more idea. 00:25:14.300 --> 00:25:14.920 Yeah, absolutely. 00:25:14.920 --> 00:25:23.980 So I think another is that basic of what I just named, essentially, there's a kind of flow in when we share with people about what we're doing. 00:25:24.180 --> 00:25:27.680 And there's kind of a basic framework, and it's just storytelling. 00:25:27.900 --> 00:25:29.360 It's just a storytelling framework. 00:25:29.660 --> 00:25:32.500 But you kind of introduce yourself, let them get to know who you are. 00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:34.400 You express the need. 00:25:34.680 --> 00:25:44.820 And it's helpful if you give a story of the need, give an example of somebody you met in a server, somebody that you are having conversation with, that regular who's always hitting the stream. 00:25:45.020 --> 00:25:51.280 Share a story that represents that need with permissions, obviously, or change names, you know, do those things. 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:57.220 And then the answer to the need and sharing very clearly the ultimate answer to that need is the good news of Jesus Christ. 00:25:57.480 --> 00:26:06.280 But then how is this thing that you're doing, the ministry that you're doing, answering that need that is there for this person and this story? 00:26:07.320 --> 00:26:11.920 And so then you can play that out a few times, giving more about the details of here are your partners in that. 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:13.240 What are the things you're doing? 00:26:13.600 --> 00:26:15.780 What are some stories that you've seen be really beneficial? 00:26:16.260 --> 00:26:23.920 And then you just kind of give a bit of just like, and this is why, again, story, need, answer to the need. 00:26:24.160 --> 00:26:26.600 And then, hey, I would love to invite you to partner. 00:26:27.040 --> 00:26:28.800 And then you invite them to partner with you. 00:26:28.860 --> 00:26:34.280 And there's levels of partnership ask that you can talk about and different things and lots of conversations we can have there. 00:26:34.280 --> 00:26:41.360 But the main thing to name is explicitly inviting a person to partner with you specifically. 00:26:41.960 --> 00:26:47.080 And sometimes the temptation is like, well, if you'd like to think about partnering, that would be cool. 00:26:47.400 --> 00:26:49.620 And hopefully you can't hear me over this background music. 00:26:49.620 --> 00:26:52.660 And that makes the whole point that you're being really timid and like all the things. 00:26:53.320 --> 00:26:56.900 Instead of, hey, you've heard the need, heard the answer to the need. 00:26:57.040 --> 00:26:58.480 Here are the things that God is doing. 00:26:58.640 --> 00:27:00.520 And, you know, if I just like kind of role play it for a second. 00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:05.680 And Jeff, part of what that means in order for me to continue to do this is I need partners. 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:13.380 I need partners in this ministry to come along and pray with me, to connect me with other people that might want to hear more about this ministry, as well as to partner financially. 00:27:13.900 --> 00:27:16.100 And then I would share more about the financial piece. 00:27:16.200 --> 00:27:16.720 Here's that. 00:27:16.880 --> 00:27:17.700 Here's how this goes. 00:27:17.900 --> 00:27:23.660 And so, Jeff, my question is, would you be willing to partner with me at $75 a month? 00:27:24.620 --> 00:27:26.280 And you give the explicit invitation. 00:27:26.280 --> 00:27:39.580 Now, you might give a range or you might say, hey, there's different levels, but kind of the explicit invitation in a partnership with the person that you have relationship with, that you've been building relationship with, is beneficial because otherwise they don't know. 00:27:39.780 --> 00:27:40.940 They don't know what to do. 00:27:41.080 --> 00:27:46.460 You know, the example I like to use a lot is like, what do you tip a, what do you tip an Uber driver? 00:27:46.660 --> 00:27:48.660 What do you tip a door dash delivery person? 00:27:49.700 --> 00:27:51.120 We don't have a norm for this yet. 00:27:51.180 --> 00:27:54.920 I know that I should tip probably 15, 20% at a restaurant, but like, is this that? 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:56.060 I ordered carry out. 00:27:56.140 --> 00:27:57.300 Is this the same thing? 00:27:57.820 --> 00:28:01.900 And when it's unknown for us, we all go into this like, I don't know what to do. 00:28:01.980 --> 00:28:09.780 And so, you're just handing somebody the square terminal options to say, hey, here are some options of ways that people can partner. 00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:14.160 And with that, it's big asks, right? 00:28:14.320 --> 00:28:20.820 And there's a book on that I know I've read historically as I started getting more exposed into this. 00:28:20.980 --> 00:28:21.520 I'm blanking. 00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:22.280 Big ask. 00:28:22.500 --> 00:28:23.100 The big ask. 00:28:23.100 --> 00:28:23.780 Do you know the author? 00:28:24.780 --> 00:28:25.720 Yeah, the god ask. 00:28:25.720 --> 00:28:25.960 Yeah, that's it. 00:28:26.040 --> 00:28:27.000 Who's the author's on that? 00:28:27.620 --> 00:28:28.760 Yeah, I'm blanking on that. 00:28:28.980 --> 00:28:29.740 I'm bad. 00:28:29.960 --> 00:28:31.760 I should have looked that up in advance. 00:28:32.020 --> 00:28:34.320 We'll put it in the show notes at some point. 00:28:35.060 --> 00:28:39.880 Hey, chat GPT, figure that out for us and we'll get that at some point. 00:28:40.120 --> 00:28:49.780 By the way, as a former Uber driver, tip your Uber driver who's – in general, that's a good thing. 00:28:50.460 --> 00:29:02.400 And then especially when they're delivering food, like I would not – I gave up delivering food because I was making like two bucks for like an hour of work because I had to get out of the car to go get the food. 00:29:02.400 --> 00:29:06.840 Then I had to deliver the food, then I had to deliver the food over and there's no money in that. 00:29:07.580 --> 00:29:09.320 That's a whole other conversation. 00:29:09.980 --> 00:29:13.220 But actually, it'll segue into this. 00:29:14.120 --> 00:29:15.420 It's amazing how this works out. 00:29:15.560 --> 00:29:23.520 My focus keeps going out on me because I'm very emotionally connected to you right now and so my focus does not like it. 00:29:23.600 --> 00:29:24.420 I've got to stop. 00:29:24.900 --> 00:29:29.020 I'm standing as opposed to sitting because my legs were like, you just need to stand up. 00:29:29.420 --> 00:29:31.520 And so I'm much more energetic today. 00:29:32.480 --> 00:29:37.520 Hey, so Uber – I mean there were seasons where I had to do that. 00:29:37.520 --> 00:29:46.520 I'll just be honest where I am a tent maker, bivocational is a phrase we use a lot, co-vocational. 00:29:47.480 --> 00:29:49.240 And I've been publicly saying this. 00:29:49.300 --> 00:29:55.860 The Church Digital has not paid me a penny in five, six years at this point. 00:29:56.120 --> 00:30:02.300 Like money that goes into the organization goes into leaderships, into organizational costs. 00:30:02.560 --> 00:30:12.460 And I'm happy to dialogue and work through anybody on this, but we're not making money as an organization at a negative even. 00:30:12.660 --> 00:30:19.740 And so historically, I've carried a lot of that responsibility just to keep the lights on, so to speak. 00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.860 I'm not bragging. 00:30:21.120 --> 00:30:22.640 I'm also unemployed. 00:30:23.460 --> 00:30:25.560 My contract is actually ending next month. 00:30:25.560 --> 00:30:38.720 So I'm feeling this at a very high level because I'm actually – I need to either find another bivocational approach or I need to lean holistically more into this. 00:30:40.580 --> 00:30:53.420 Link, talk to us a little bit here because the idea of bivocational as getting a job, DoorDash, Starbucks, doing something, anything, co-vocational, 00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:59.280 figuring out how money, your job can actually be part of your ministry, fundraising. 00:30:59.840 --> 00:31:03.100 Like, are there pros and cons to these different approaches? 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:06.320 Yeah, absolutely, right? 00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.420 I think there – I mean, there's pros and cons to everything. 00:31:10.300 --> 00:31:11.420 Steve Shadrach, there it is. 00:31:11.440 --> 00:31:11.860 There you go. 00:31:13.260 --> 00:31:17.320 So the – yeah, I think there's pros and cons. 00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:23.660 And so the phrase that I use a lot, that we use a lot at Reliant is finding funding that matches your mission. 00:31:24.360 --> 00:31:33.540 And so a lot of times, instead of saying, well, I need to shift the mission of the thing, I need to change the thing because the funding just isn't working. 00:31:33.660 --> 00:31:34.600 What does that look like? 00:31:34.740 --> 00:31:43.360 And what our hope is, is that we then present one option that when folks have a mission that could use being support-based, 00:31:43.700 --> 00:31:48.960 that they can keep going with that mission and not have to change the mission based on what the – you know, 00:31:48.980 --> 00:31:53.480 one of the options you gave earlier is the idea of, hey, yeah, there's a lot of people that they have, like, church budgets. 00:31:54.180 --> 00:31:55.820 Even those church budgets are shrinking. 00:31:56.020 --> 00:31:57.340 Those church budgets are changing. 00:31:57.520 --> 00:32:03.240 As you have, you know, a book that just came out a few years ago, and I'm going to forget the author's name again, 00:32:03.360 --> 00:32:06.940 if anybody in the chat wants to help us with that, but called The Great Dechurching, 00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:15.460 showing the decline of how many people are leaving or how much smaller some of traditional church is getting and what that looks like. 00:32:15.980 --> 00:32:17.280 And so even that funding is changing. 00:32:17.480 --> 00:32:21.120 And so all that to say, pros and cons of those different models and what that looks like, 00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:26.420 I think the thing that – I almost begin every conversation that I have with anybody in, it's like, what's the mission? 00:32:26.680 --> 00:32:29.120 What is the thing that you're on about, to use an Alan Hirsch phrase? 00:32:29.220 --> 00:32:31.620 Like, what is the thing that you're wanting to do? 00:32:32.380 --> 00:32:35.740 And how – what does funding look like within that? 00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:40.200 And so then for a lot of people, co-vocational is a really great mission. 00:32:40.360 --> 00:32:42.980 It's what works really well for me and my family in this season. 00:32:42.980 --> 00:32:46.100 I find, you know, what I'm doing is ministry at my work with Reliant, 00:32:46.220 --> 00:32:52.580 but I work full-time with Reliant, getting to meet people and help them step into ministry and do lots of things across, 00:32:52.700 --> 00:32:56.560 while also then being a part of a local church in a neighborhood of people. 00:32:56.740 --> 00:32:59.580 We have – I was just counting it with my wife the other day, 00:32:59.620 --> 00:33:06.820 but we have nine units of folks that live in the same one-square-mile neighborhood that are doing life here. 00:33:06.900 --> 00:33:07.200 Wow. 00:33:07.280 --> 00:33:11.060 And the co-vocational thing works really well for that. 00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:18.340 I work during the day, but I work remotely and have flexibility when I need to go get groceries for a neighbor or do those things, you know? 00:33:18.420 --> 00:33:20.960 So, like, that works really well for us. 00:33:21.700 --> 00:33:30.100 But some people – but the con to that is when, you know, my priest asked, like, hey, can you preach on this date? 00:33:30.360 --> 00:33:31.320 I'm like, I can't. 00:33:31.320 --> 00:33:34.320 I'm traveling for work that week before, and I'm doing this other thing. 00:33:34.440 --> 00:33:42.680 Like, I say no to some ministry opportunities that I really would love to be a part of because of the co-vocationality of myself. 00:33:43.000 --> 00:33:47.620 And somebody may go, no, I want to be able to spend more time doing that thing. 00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.800 I may want to spend more time doing that. 00:33:49.800 --> 00:33:59.540 You know, I think about the digital space a lot and how some of the hours in the digital space is often off hours, which can be hard for a family. 00:33:59.980 --> 00:34:11.920 It can be hard if you're like, hey, my kids are home from school doing this time and all that, and you're exhausted because you were working a full-time job, and now you're trying to stream, or now you're trying to go be in a lobby when things are full on the eastern seaboard. 00:34:11.920 --> 00:34:14.700 Like, you're doing that kind of thing. 00:34:16.220 --> 00:34:21.960 Sometimes maybe raising support is an answer to that, and that shifts your work hours to the evening. 00:34:22.180 --> 00:34:25.660 Yes, you're not present with your kids, but you're able to be with them during the day. 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:30.900 Or maybe you're homeschooling them and getting more time with them and doing some of that and working those hours. 00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:37.000 And even it gives you some flexibility and options that some sort of co-vocationality might not. 00:34:37.540 --> 00:34:40.720 And a million other ways to do it and a million other things. 00:34:40.820 --> 00:34:41.780 But there's pros and cons. 00:34:42.020 --> 00:34:45.240 Ultimately, it comes back to, in my mind, funding that matches the mission. 00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.320 What is the thing that God is calling you into? 00:34:47.880 --> 00:34:49.820 How do you – what does that look like? 00:34:50.060 --> 00:34:52.060 And then let's get some funding that matches that well. 00:34:52.480 --> 00:35:00.580 Yeah, it's interesting, the relationship between co-vocational, bivocational. 00:35:01.240 --> 00:35:02.140 You're – I don't know. 00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:06.540 Like, John, I heard somebody describe the difference between bivo and covo this way. 00:35:06.700 --> 00:35:09.640 And so I resonate with it, and then I tell people this. 00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:11.760 And they're like, I've never heard that. 00:35:11.820 --> 00:35:16.460 So I don't know if I'm just making stuff up, which I'm known to do on occasion too, all the time. 00:35:16.460 --> 00:35:22.420 But, like, bivocational is like your 9 to 5 is nothing to do with ministry. 00:35:22.900 --> 00:35:24.760 You're just – that's what you're doing. 00:35:25.260 --> 00:35:27.060 You're delivering food on Uber. 00:35:27.660 --> 00:35:32.080 And as a result, you're able to do ministry after hours or off the clock. 00:35:33.320 --> 00:35:33.400 Yeah. 00:35:33.500 --> 00:35:39.460 Co-vocational tends to be – like, I have a friend who's running a microchurch out of a bar. 00:35:39.920 --> 00:35:45.580 And he's also the operations director at the bar that he's running the microchurch out of. 00:35:45.700 --> 00:35:51.760 Like, he's managed to figure out how to, like, do ministry and have somebody else pay him to do the ministry. 00:35:52.160 --> 00:35:54.500 Like, that's a sweet gig if you can figure that out. 00:35:54.620 --> 00:35:57.560 But there's – it's kind of that tension. 00:35:58.160 --> 00:35:58.900 You know, it's interesting. 00:35:59.040 --> 00:36:05.720 I look at scripture and, like, this is a – this is not a gotcha moment. 00:36:06.120 --> 00:36:07.720 But this is a gotcha moment for me. 00:36:07.820 --> 00:36:11.460 And so, like, John, I'm going to let you off the hook if you're like, wow, never thought of that, right? 00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:14.620 And maybe I'm misinterpreting all of this. 00:36:15.220 --> 00:36:18.220 But, like, Paul – Paul was a tent maker. 00:36:19.420 --> 00:36:23.040 Paul was a church planner, a church networker. 00:36:23.240 --> 00:36:24.960 You know, he was constantly moving. 00:36:25.120 --> 00:36:27.120 He was constantly in jail. 00:36:27.300 --> 00:36:28.740 I mean, let's set that aside. 00:36:29.200 --> 00:36:31.120 Paul was going from place to place. 00:36:31.180 --> 00:36:32.560 I'm sorry I can't be with you in person. 00:36:33.180 --> 00:36:37.760 I'm sending this letter written on paper, which was modern technology. 00:36:38.200 --> 00:36:42.880 And I'm sending it via Timothy on the Roman roads, which was new technology. 00:36:43.120 --> 00:36:45.820 And so, Paul 100% would have been a digital missionary. 00:36:46.020 --> 00:36:50.440 Like, we see him engaging with a lot of this new technology, you know, even historically. 00:36:51.220 --> 00:36:52.280 But he was a tent maker. 00:36:52.800 --> 00:36:53.780 And then it was funny. 00:36:53.840 --> 00:36:58.420 As I was prepping for this, I was doing some, like, for this interview. 00:36:58.420 --> 00:37:06.320 I ran across this Bible verse, 1 Corinthians 9.14, in the same way the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel 00:37:06.320 --> 00:37:10.460 should receive their living from the gospel. 00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:16.820 And so, Paul was a tent maker, but Paul says to the Corinthians, 00:37:17.640 --> 00:37:21.480 hey, pay the people who are preaching the gospels. 00:37:21.900 --> 00:37:24.880 And now, like, we're in this tension. 00:37:25.080 --> 00:37:25.660 You've said it. 00:37:25.660 --> 00:37:33.720 We're even, like, churches are having to adjust and are moving more towards different funding models. 00:37:34.540 --> 00:37:38.320 Non-profit donations in the church space is even not what it used to be. 00:37:38.760 --> 00:37:45.760 And so, as a result, you know, I believe you're going to see more of a swing towards more Bivo, Covo, tent maker type approaches. 00:37:46.820 --> 00:37:49.120 What are we supposed to do with all this? 00:37:49.180 --> 00:37:52.300 Like, it feels like, you know, it's hard for me. 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:54.580 I'm killing myself over here. 00:37:55.040 --> 00:37:56.980 Funding isn't what it used to be. 00:37:57.060 --> 00:38:00.560 Some of our digital missionaries are putting in crazy amounts of time. 00:38:00.860 --> 00:38:06.380 But, you know, as more digital missionaries get in the space, I was just having a conversation the other day with – 00:38:06.380 --> 00:38:08.640 And do you know, Susie, have you ever hung out with pastors? 00:38:08.740 --> 00:38:10.640 You've hung out with Pastor Zuzi, you know? 00:38:10.920 --> 00:38:11.260 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:38:11.260 --> 00:38:12.860 We've been around each other. 00:38:13.040 --> 00:38:15.260 I'd say we're getting to know each other over the years slowly. 00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:16.280 He's a great guy. 00:38:16.400 --> 00:38:20.280 You should – I should totally get you connected with him at a deeper level. 00:38:20.980 --> 00:38:22.620 But even Susie was saying – 00:38:22.620 --> 00:38:27.980 I've been on calls with this team some and chatted about different things, Amanda and Pastor over there with them. 00:38:28.200 --> 00:38:28.520 Totally. 00:38:28.900 --> 00:38:33.320 Susie was saying – he's like, yeah, 10 years ago, we were the only thing in gaming space. 00:38:33.820 --> 00:38:39.840 And so the money was coming in like crazy because anybody who was thinking crazy was given to us. 00:38:40.420 --> 00:38:44.580 And now there's so many other things, which, by the way, is still not enough. 00:38:45.120 --> 00:38:49.000 But, you know, there's more crazies in the pool than it used to be. 00:38:49.000 --> 00:38:52.760 And so the amount's kind of getting bleeded down a little bit. 00:38:53.500 --> 00:39:04.840 How do we reconcile this idea of full salary, what I'm reading here, should receive their living from the gospel? 00:39:05.480 --> 00:39:09.200 Like, is that taken to account, the Tim Maker, the Bivo? 00:39:09.400 --> 00:39:11.580 Should we be looking for something different? 00:39:12.860 --> 00:39:15.000 Yeah, I mean, I think, again, for that, right? 00:39:15.100 --> 00:39:19.400 And this is where Paul kept figuring out the mission as he went. 00:39:19.900 --> 00:39:21.200 He's figuring it out. 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:26.260 I think sometimes because it's scripture, we're all like, that dude knew exactly what he was doing. 00:39:26.580 --> 00:39:29.540 And his five-year plan went according to plan. 00:39:29.660 --> 00:39:30.320 And this is great. 00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.620 And it's like, no, he got shipwrecked and he figured out, what do I do with that? 00:39:33.700 --> 00:39:37.280 He got to put it in prison over here and had to figure that out. 00:39:37.400 --> 00:39:44.040 This church didn't give what he thought they were going to give and he writes a letter and it's scripture and it's like, hey, what are you guys doing? 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:48.220 You know, these sorts of things are happening and he's figuring it out. 00:39:48.300 --> 00:39:55.560 And so I think that's the answer a lot of times for people is like, let's figure it out and let's figure out what it means for this person. 00:39:55.560 --> 00:40:09.280 And I think the way of support raising is a way of, you know, having your living and sustaining coming from the gospel, because it is a matter of you're inviting people to partner with you and what that looks like. 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:25.820 But then there is this certain amount of time economic model that's actually really short, like, and as far as the history of the church, there's this model of great, everybody tithes and that paid the retirement, healthcare and pension for a few staff to go and do a thing and all that. 00:40:26.040 --> 00:40:30.200 Like, so it's a fairly limited model that we, it's normal. 00:40:30.480 --> 00:40:36.700 And, you know, there's all sorts of conversations we can get into of leaking into free market capitalism and church and like all these things. 00:40:36.700 --> 00:40:38.360 I can have all sorts of conversations about that. 00:40:38.780 --> 00:40:39.500 That's not today. 00:40:39.680 --> 00:40:41.700 That sounds like an incredibly boring conversation. 00:40:41.940 --> 00:40:47.160 I just want to say that's not what I'm interested in long term, like five minutes, maybe, but go ahead, please. 00:40:47.580 --> 00:40:47.780 Yeah. 00:40:48.080 --> 00:40:48.740 Yeah, no, it's great. 00:40:49.040 --> 00:40:55.020 I mean, I could talk about that stuff for days, but they living from the gospel as well as like, hey, things are changing. 00:40:55.180 --> 00:40:57.560 They are changing and everything is changing. 00:40:57.560 --> 00:41:04.960 And so then I think that that's the face that we find ourselves in is a curiosity, just like Paul and going, okay, 00:41:05.500 --> 00:41:11.140 the Roman government capacities, this, this is changing who we are as a people and what's accepted as not. 00:41:11.200 --> 00:41:12.380 And what do we do with this thing? 00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.400 And we're saying, okay, great. 00:41:13.800 --> 00:41:16.980 What does it mean to be faithful to the things that God is present to you, right? 00:41:17.000 --> 00:41:17.980 This is what Paul is doing. 00:41:18.060 --> 00:41:21.440 It goes and he lands and it's the classic statue of the unknown God. 00:41:21.580 --> 00:41:24.980 He shows up and he says, I trust God is present and at work here. 00:41:25.640 --> 00:41:31.380 And now I'm going to pay attention to see what's going on and then respond to what it means for the church to be here. 00:41:31.380 --> 00:41:32.300 What does that look like? 00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:34.580 And I'm going to write to these people over here and do these things. 00:41:34.580 --> 00:41:37.940 And he did make tents, but then he also asked for funds. 00:41:38.120 --> 00:41:44.800 And he, some ways he, you know, that his tent making changed day to day based on the thing and what he was happening. 00:41:45.180 --> 00:41:50.260 And so for those that are ready and called to live like Paul, well, that's going to change every three months for you. 00:41:50.600 --> 00:41:55.780 Others, you may go, hey, I see this piece of what Paul did, which was raising support and I can do that. 00:41:55.840 --> 00:41:58.120 Or I see a piece of what he did and that was a tent maker. 00:41:58.520 --> 00:42:07.840 And I bring that all back to, I bring that all back to, again, matching, funding that matches your mission and what that looks like and how that plays out. 00:42:07.840 --> 00:42:15.160 And I think we can discern that and have better stories and better examples from other people that are doing those different things and what that looks like. 00:42:15.540 --> 00:42:19.720 But then I think just really asking yourself like, hey, asking yourself and praying. 00:42:19.920 --> 00:42:22.080 Okay, God, what is it you have for me here? 00:42:22.200 --> 00:42:24.240 What is it that you have for me to do? 00:42:24.300 --> 00:42:25.920 And what are the methods in which I can fund that? 00:42:27.320 --> 00:42:32.940 Yeah, there is a, it's funny in a completely unrelated conversation. 00:42:32.940 --> 00:42:42.140 I was having a conversation with one of our leaders this afternoon around lunch, just before this, maybe 11 o'clock Eastern. 00:42:43.260 --> 00:42:49.660 And she was sharing, I want to say, I left it open on my screen, but I think I closed the browser. 00:42:49.800 --> 00:42:51.160 I'm pretty sure it was Jeremiah 1. 00:42:52.580 --> 00:42:59.340 You know, and it's the scripture where Jeremiah is saying, but I'm a boy. 00:43:01.160 --> 00:43:03.520 And I think it's like Jeremiah 1.6. 00:43:04.080 --> 00:43:06.280 But I am just a boy. 00:43:07.320 --> 00:43:08.080 You know, that's what it was. 00:43:08.140 --> 00:43:15.900 It was Jeremiah 1.3, where it was 2 and 3, where God's like, you know, I knit you, I formed you, I created you. 00:43:16.340 --> 00:43:19.020 Jeremiah 1.6, Jeremiah's like, but I'm a boy. 00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:20.700 I don't, I don't, I don't, I don't know. 00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:28.240 And, and Jeremiah 1.8 is, is God is like, is putting the words in Jeremiah's mouth. 00:43:28.240 --> 00:43:31.400 And, and he's like, you, you are not silence. 00:43:31.780 --> 00:43:49.220 And so I can speak through you, you know, and for me, honestly, it was this perfectly timed for where I am in my life, but also where I, where I am in this conversation with you, where it was, was like the, the idea of, hey, you know, we don't have it figured out yet. 00:43:49.980 --> 00:43:51.180 Paul didn't have it figured out. 00:43:51.240 --> 00:43:53.860 What do you mean Paul, you know, was kind of wrestling with some of these things? 00:43:54.000 --> 00:43:56.300 He's, Paul's like one of the founding fathers of the church. 00:43:56.360 --> 00:43:57.700 He's supposed to know what the crap's going on. 00:43:58.080 --> 00:43:59.700 And it's okay that he didn't. 00:43:59.800 --> 00:43:59.920 Yes. 00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:10.720 And as, as we're in the, in the midst of this as well, you know, I, I, I have been wrestling with the fact that, you know, I'll just be transparent in this. 00:44:10.720 --> 00:44:13.440 I, I, I can't do this. 00:44:14.060 --> 00:44:21.540 And, and the way that me saying, I cannot do this, that brokenness is not giving up. 00:44:22.060 --> 00:44:35.840 It's, it's me shutting up long enough to allow God to enter in to the conversation for, for God to, um, come put his words into it. 00:44:35.960 --> 00:44:52.560 You know, um, that was the, the leader, uh, was actually challenging me, you know, um, uh, Psalms 4610, um, you know, the, abiding is something that as an organization, I, I am, I am, if you know me, I'm a type A person. 00:44:52.740 --> 00:45:09.820 I am like driven out the wazoo and, and, and it's, it's this idea of, in the Psalms of like ceasing striving, uh, of, of ceasing in that and, and allowing God to, to move as opposed to you moving for him. 00:45:10.020 --> 00:45:25.160 And, and, and it's, and it's this really interesting, um, personal thing that I'm, I'm wrestling with is how to let God move in the finances versus me working real hard. 00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:29.740 I'll just be transparent versus me working real hard to, to make it happen. 00:45:29.880 --> 00:45:39.220 You know, John, I know you've been like a, you know, a planter you've, you've gone down this road and as somebody who's doing like mission fundraising and working for an organization like, like Reliant. 00:45:40.840 --> 00:45:42.820 How do you see that brokenness? 00:45:42.940 --> 00:45:44.420 How do you see, see striving? 00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:48.700 How, how do you see, uh, I am, but a boy and allowing God to speak. 00:45:48.760 --> 00:45:56.060 Like, do you have any, any stories or any examples or, uh, either your ministry or others of, of how you've seen God move through that? 00:45:57.460 --> 00:45:58.600 Yeah, I mean, absolutely. 00:45:58.740 --> 00:46:01.900 I think that there is, I mean, there's so many things, right. 00:46:01.900 --> 00:46:09.900 And then especially one of the things I love about the church digital is like a lot of our crocking and conversation has been from a very particular American context. 00:46:10.020 --> 00:46:13.180 Today, but like, that's not everybody that church digital is involved in. 00:46:13.240 --> 00:46:18.680 And that, that plays itself out in like so many different ways and so much nuance and all those things here. 00:46:18.680 --> 00:46:33.480 But I think towards that, that brokenness and that striving, we, as the American church have gotten really comfortable because there has, in some ways felt like abundance for a long time and the normality and like these things. 00:46:33.500 --> 00:46:41.880 But then when it comes to the idea of, okay, Hey, we're talking about something unique or things are changing, there's trends that are changing. 00:46:42.240 --> 00:46:54.600 It's easier to then go, okay, well, here's the American mentality of pull yourself up by your bootstraps and, uh, just work harder and hustle and like do these sorts of thing as this invitation. 00:46:54.600 --> 00:47:01.220 Now there is this sense of, you know, somebody has the phrase, uh, work like it depends on you, pray like it depends on God. 00:47:01.220 --> 00:47:05.040 And so this, there's some tension in all of this, right? 00:47:05.040 --> 00:47:12.420 No real specific answer, but one of the stories that really sticks out to me was I was in a season of when you're raising support. 00:47:12.420 --> 00:47:24.580 A lot of times you have that initial season, you're having a season of trying to raise that initial support and then you're maintaining relationships and doing, but then you may take a month or two to, uh, bring on new partners, meet with some new folks. 00:47:24.580 --> 00:47:28.000 Re-meet with people, raise a bit more, you know, that sort of a thing. 00:47:28.620 --> 00:47:29.840 And I was in one of those seasons. 00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:38.360 I was weeks away from a baby, uh, coming along and was just feeling this pressure. 00:47:38.880 --> 00:47:42.160 And one of the best ways that I can clear my head is just to go for a run. 00:47:42.700 --> 00:47:51.720 And so I go and I go for a run and all that like anxiety and stress is like pent up and it's coming out by me running way too fast. 00:47:51.720 --> 00:48:05.520 I was just going way too hard and I'm like going and I remember the neighborhood where I'm at it, the street corner that I'm at and I'm, I'm running and I'm just gasped and gasping for air, which is not the kind of running I like doing. 00:48:05.640 --> 00:48:06.980 That's not fun for me. 00:48:06.980 --> 00:48:09.280 Like I, I'm a slow runner, nice and easy. 00:48:09.920 --> 00:48:14.740 Uh, and I remember I, I felt it as invitation. 00:48:14.740 --> 00:48:19.660 I felt it as God going like, you know, you can't do this on your own, right? 00:48:19.860 --> 00:48:22.460 Like you can't just keep trying harder and harder. 00:48:22.720 --> 00:48:24.180 Like I'm with you. 00:48:24.340 --> 00:48:25.380 Will you trust me? 00:48:25.620 --> 00:48:26.900 Will you be with me? 00:48:26.960 --> 00:48:28.320 Will you depend upon me? 00:48:28.380 --> 00:48:31.160 And that's my like moment of going like, no, I can't. 00:48:31.200 --> 00:48:37.640 If I just, if I just keep doing it, if I do the right thing and I make the right things happen and just keep working harder, it's going to work out. 00:48:37.640 --> 00:48:37.860 Right? 00:48:37.880 --> 00:48:50.940 Like this is this story that we believe, but then I think there's an invitation from God and this dependence and just like Jeremiah, just like the people of God and just like to go, Hey, I'm coming and bringing my dependence to you, God. 00:48:50.940 --> 00:49:01.160 And what that looks like to bring that to Christ as the body of Christ and the people of God and coming in this dependence and this open handedness to go, Hey, I need you. 00:49:01.260 --> 00:49:05.840 I can't just keep trying too hard because else I'm going to just be gasping and out of breath. 00:49:06.560 --> 00:49:08.420 And this doesn't work. 00:49:08.540 --> 00:49:13.340 And so I think that's the story for my own life that I had that moment of remembering and realizing. 00:49:14.460 --> 00:49:20.240 And then, you know, I'm sure the next day at some point I was stressed and anxious and making sure that I made enough phone calls that next day. 00:49:20.240 --> 00:49:26.300 Like, and it's just this constant reminder that's needed to the reminder that I have, uh, right now. 00:49:26.400 --> 00:49:36.300 I'm one of those people that's a little careful with kids on the internet, but like, uh, is this picture of my son and, uh, you know, that you saw the back of, um, but is. 00:49:36.300 --> 00:49:38.560 I was about to say, that's really unique. 00:49:39.360 --> 00:49:40.220 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 00:49:40.220 --> 00:49:43.820 I know my son's a very unique looking, uh, set of lines. 00:49:44.080 --> 00:49:48.120 No, it's just the back of, uh, that, but it's that reminder that's sitting here. 00:49:48.120 --> 00:49:53.020 That's like, Hey, I, life isn't about just striving and doing all the things. 00:49:53.020 --> 00:49:55.340 And like, this isn't what God's inviting us into. 00:49:55.340 --> 00:50:01.740 Like part of the goodness God's inviting me into is like my relationship with my son, my relationship with God, my relationship with these things. 00:50:01.740 --> 00:50:08.200 And that reminder and that dependence upon that, while also all the, it's tension, it's all tension. 00:50:08.200 --> 00:50:18.880 But as you say that, that's the things that come immediately to mind for me and how we do that is we open our hands and say, okay, God, I, I give this to you and to the people of God who are the body of Christ. 00:50:18.880 --> 00:50:19.880 I give this to you. 00:50:20.000 --> 00:50:21.840 Help me discern this, discern this with me. 00:50:21.900 --> 00:50:23.060 What do I do here? 00:50:23.160 --> 00:50:28.000 You know, and that's stuff, Jeff, that you and I, I've talked about with y'all in the church digital is just takes discernment. 00:50:28.080 --> 00:50:30.720 That's why you have a team and a board and okay. 00:50:30.880 --> 00:50:32.360 Hey, let's pray together. 00:50:32.480 --> 00:50:34.160 Let's see, what is God doing here? 00:50:34.220 --> 00:50:34.980 And what does this look like? 00:50:35.020 --> 00:50:36.400 What does the future of this look like? 00:50:37.480 --> 00:50:37.660 Yeah. 00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:38.060 Yeah. 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:46.380 It's that, I mean, I've had the mentality historically, pray hard, work harder, you know, which you were alluding to earlier. 00:50:46.880 --> 00:51:00.440 And, you know, coming around to the, to the brokenness of, I can't, I can't do this, but God and, and allowing him to, to move in that. 00:51:00.440 --> 00:51:06.460 But I, and that, that's been like, that's just, that's a hard position for me to be in. 00:51:06.880 --> 00:51:15.520 Um, I, I, I, at least I've, I've never really, this past six months has, has put me in that, in that unique spot. 00:51:16.180 --> 00:51:20.800 And, um, I, I, I learned constantly from it. 00:51:21.420 --> 00:51:25.680 Um, I go through seasons of, I can do this. 00:51:25.720 --> 00:51:26.740 I can't do this. 00:51:27.140 --> 00:51:30.160 I, maybe I don't, maybe I don't, I don't want to do this. 00:51:30.160 --> 00:51:32.100 What is God telling me through this? 00:51:32.720 --> 00:51:46.340 Um, you know, and, you know, I, I just, I, I'm, I'm constantly, you know, I'm just maybe saying a little bit more here, but I, I, I find, I find myself saying like things like, I don't, I, but I don't want to slow down. 00:51:46.340 --> 00:51:53.860 But maybe I need to, or maybe God's, God's telling me in this season too, or, you know, let's bring on more people. 00:51:53.860 --> 00:52:02.280 And, and I've tried intentionally to, to, to bring more, more people into the system for, for different vantage points and views. 00:52:02.280 --> 00:52:04.960 And like, we're, I'm, I'm, I'm just being here on this train. 00:52:04.960 --> 00:52:16.160 Like, we're, we're very, um, open-handed with this because I, I never wanted this thing to be jeffreed.com. 00:52:16.640 --> 00:52:41.040 And, and, and, and even through the, through the church digital and beyond, even through the seasons, like we've just, we've really, um, been challenged towards, um, being broken in recent months. 00:52:41.040 --> 00:52:45.160 And, and allowing God to, to do what God's going to do with it. 00:52:45.940 --> 00:53:05.780 Um, so if I'm a, if I'm a missionary out there, you know, somebody that's working with the, the, the church digital, what would, what would it even like, look, I mean, we've kind of been talking all over the map here and, and brokenness and, and fundraising and, and, um, and allowing God to do what he's going to do. 00:53:06.080 --> 00:53:12.460 But what would a, uh, what would a relationship with reliant look like? 00:53:12.460 --> 00:53:21.200 How, how, how, how do you all come alongside missionaries and, and, and help them maybe start to, to work through some of these things? 00:53:22.180 --> 00:53:23.140 Yeah, absolutely. 00:53:23.240 --> 00:53:23.900 It's a good question. 00:53:23.980 --> 00:53:32.740 Uh, real quick to answer Steve in the chat, he's asking what, uh, badong means, and it's just, uh, hard to read cursive. 00:53:32.820 --> 00:53:40.600 It's just belong, uh, but I get it asked enough that I need to probably take it down and put something else there. 00:53:40.860 --> 00:53:43.520 I did ask him that in, in one of our first meetings too. 00:53:43.560 --> 00:53:45.060 I was like, what in the world is badong? 00:53:45.520 --> 00:53:47.900 But, uh, that was what your, your church, right? 00:53:47.960 --> 00:53:52.340 Or was it when it's something, the name of our church plant, when we first moved to the city, yeah, it was belong. 00:53:52.340 --> 00:53:56.720 And so, um, anyways, uh, I think towards, yeah. 00:53:56.780 --> 00:54:02.780 And I think, and to tie it in with the brokenness that you're naming in the space of just like, yeah, who are we and what do we do? 00:54:02.780 --> 00:54:05.420 And how do we respond when God's calling us to this thing? 00:54:05.420 --> 00:54:14.520 And I think that's one of the spaces that we hope to meet at Reliant to go like, Hey, when you're at that space to go, I don't know, God, I, I just have to kind of trust. 00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:15.620 And what does that look like? 00:54:15.620 --> 00:54:21.340 And then we also see a faithful piece of scripture is going and then asking God for the things that we want. 00:54:21.520 --> 00:54:24.240 Like, Hey, I don't know, but I'm asking for this. 00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:29.240 And I'm putting that out to the people of God and to the church community to say, here's the things I think I need. 00:54:29.540 --> 00:54:30.480 What does this look like? 00:54:30.580 --> 00:54:33.480 And so then that's the space where Reliant comes along. 00:54:33.620 --> 00:54:37.160 And so you could reach out, anybody could reach out to me, uh, check out our website. 00:54:37.620 --> 00:54:43.760 Most things that you would find to reach to somebody about potentially working with Reliant are going to get to me on our website. 00:54:44.300 --> 00:54:52.020 Um, but essentially what it's going to look like, it's just a conversation to say, Hey, uh, what is it that God is doing with you and you through you and all that sort of stuff. 00:54:52.020 --> 00:54:53.960 We just want to come and help support you in that. 00:54:53.960 --> 00:54:55.640 Say our mission is your mission. 00:54:56.060 --> 00:54:58.680 We want to support your mission so that you can keep focusing on your mission. 00:54:59.220 --> 00:55:14.280 But then if you are wanting to be trained and coach and within that brokenness that we're talking about within that space, come and invite other people to partner with you in the thing that you are doing, to partner with you in the thing that God is doing, that you are doing right. 00:55:14.300 --> 00:55:17.580 It's the thing that somehow some combination of the both end of that. 00:55:18.020 --> 00:55:19.820 Um, and that's what we can do. 00:55:19.900 --> 00:55:25.180 You can come and, uh, we would basically kick off some partnership conversations and what that looks like. 00:55:25.180 --> 00:55:29.440 Then we would be able to train and coach you on how to raise that support. 00:55:29.680 --> 00:55:37.340 You would take a season of time to raise that support, to go and meet with people and individuals, to live out the things that we're talking about here and invite them in. 00:55:37.420 --> 00:55:47.140 Just like Paul did, just like Jesus was support based in his ministry, this going out and saying, Hey, we, we'd be a part of this thing that God is doing and inviting people in. 00:55:47.200 --> 00:55:49.900 And then you have this sustainable group of partners. 00:55:49.900 --> 00:55:51.660 We call it ministry team development. 00:55:51.880 --> 00:55:52.940 You're not begging for funds. 00:55:52.940 --> 00:55:53.840 You're not doing those things. 00:55:53.840 --> 00:55:57.320 You're building a team of people to partner with you in this thing that God is doing. 00:55:57.480 --> 00:55:58.640 And you would go and do that. 00:55:58.680 --> 00:56:05.600 And then you go and continue doing ministry by doing the thing that God has called you to, and that you have a team around you to do. 00:56:05.820 --> 00:56:12.300 And now you have a sustainable kind of base of partners that can help sustain you for the work that's ahead. 00:56:12.440 --> 00:56:16.480 So that you can be, uh, you know, sustained, uh, what is it? 00:56:16.520 --> 00:56:24.600 First Corinthians, um, but it's Paul saying like, Hey, go and like, I'm being sustained in Christ through Christ for the work that God is calling in. 00:56:24.740 --> 00:56:25.740 You can be sustained. 00:56:25.740 --> 00:56:41.400 This is one of the ways that we can do that is be sustained by having partners around you to help do that and rely on being the partner that helps kind of take care of all the things that are the administrative, you know, hard parts that, you know, we talked about the idea of like that, not being us. 00:56:41.600 --> 00:56:42.600 And that's what that looks like. 00:56:42.640 --> 00:56:45.340 And thankfully for you all, I'm not on those teams at Reliant. 00:56:45.440 --> 00:56:46.640 You don't want me on those teams. 00:56:47.120 --> 00:56:53.440 Uh, but I would say even for those people that are really good at it, it may not be still the thing they want to be spending their time on. 00:56:53.720 --> 00:56:58.280 You know, it may not be like, yeah, you're great at it, but is that the thing that you want to spend your time on? 00:56:58.560 --> 00:56:59.420 Hey, no, then great. 00:56:59.480 --> 00:57:01.440 We can come alongside and help with that. 00:57:01.540 --> 00:57:02.820 So I think that's kind of the next steps. 00:57:02.840 --> 00:57:04.740 It looks like partnership, looks like training and coaching. 00:57:04.960 --> 00:57:08.880 Then it looks like you being equipped to go and do the thing that God is calling you to do. 00:57:09.880 --> 00:57:24.220 One of the benefits of being part of the Church Digital Network, being one of the benefits of completing EDM, equipping digital missionaries with us here with the Church Digital, is a partnership with Reliant. 00:57:24.480 --> 00:57:40.460 And we've got digital missionaries that are currently, we've got some that have gone through the process and some that are currently going through the process here in U.S. and globally, you know, and using the Reliant ecosystem towards fundraising. 00:57:40.460 --> 00:57:55.760 I know they provide some coaching, they provide, you know, the ability to do the online transactions, the process, to manage, you know, all the accounting of that, all the tax stuff. 00:57:56.120 --> 00:58:08.100 Like, it's very hands-off and it's something, to be honest, it'd be the type of thing I would have really loved to have had access to maybe five or six years ago. 00:58:08.540 --> 00:58:18.180 I was, and part of, you know, part of my story, you know, I was sick for a number of years where basically I had diabetic neuropathy. 00:58:18.280 --> 00:58:21.760 It's funny, I'm standing right now where I actually have no feeling beneath my calves. 00:58:22.300 --> 00:58:25.520 And so, like, I'm kind of, like, surprised I haven't, like, tipped over at this point. 00:58:25.600 --> 00:58:26.060 Yay for me! 00:58:26.480 --> 00:58:32.180 But the larger picture was I didn't have health insurance. 00:58:32.760 --> 00:58:42.300 And so, you know, the ability to get health insurance through Reliant, the ability to set up, you know, retirement through Reliant and some of these things. 00:58:42.520 --> 00:58:49.940 Like, that's one of the opportunities that Reliant allows to missionaries that are part of it. 00:58:50.200 --> 00:59:00.640 And so, you know, what I wanted to do for the Church Digital is to say, I want people to have health insurance, even if they don't have it because of what their work is doing or what. 00:59:00.760 --> 00:59:07.040 In my situation, I was an entrepreneur, my wife was a part-time employee working full-time hours for a ministry. 00:59:07.040 --> 00:59:12.160 And so, we didn't have health insurance, you know, for us. 00:59:12.340 --> 00:59:16.420 And the kids had some, like, state-level thing, which didn't really cover much except for accidents. 00:59:16.800 --> 00:59:19.360 And so, like, we didn't have that. 00:59:20.240 --> 00:59:28.880 And I vowed I didn't want to have others to be put in that same situation as I did now with a lot of the health issues that I'm dealing with as a result. 00:59:28.880 --> 00:59:39.880 And so, having a partner like Reliant to kind of help offer some of the benefits within the network is a major opportunity. 00:59:40.660 --> 00:59:48.620 And so, I would love to connect you with John moving forward. 00:59:48.620 --> 00:59:55.720 And so, like, if you're interested in this, if you're watching this on YouTube or questions in general, hit me up directly. 00:59:55.860 --> 01:00:00.680 Find me in Discord or in WhatsApp. 01:00:01.260 --> 01:00:13.940 And I'm happy to get you connected to John and the team over there as they're processing how to help support digital missionaries here in the U.S. and beyond. 01:00:14.220 --> 01:00:18.060 And so, I don't know, John, I said, go ahead, go talk to me. 01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:27.540 And I just was going to say, I think I would, you know, agree for those that I know you guys have had a few people go through EDM cohorts and what that looks like already. 01:00:27.540 --> 01:00:35.880 But if you're somebody on here that hasn't and you're, I think it's a huge, amazing resource that the Church Digital is putting out. 01:00:36.020 --> 01:00:39.580 And I think we'll give the framework for the ways that Reliant helps, right? 01:00:39.580 --> 01:00:44.980 Because you're getting this overall framework for digital missions and the ways that that can happen and all that sort of stuff. 01:00:45.080 --> 01:00:48.480 And so, if you're here and listening and you're like, oh, man, I think I'm interested. 01:00:48.600 --> 01:00:49.560 I think I have some ideas. 01:00:50.780 --> 01:01:00.200 Cannot recommend 12 out of 10 would recommend to all my friends the course that the Church Digital and the things that they put together because it helps give that framework towards that. 01:01:00.340 --> 01:01:02.780 That Reliant is just a piece of that we want to serve. 01:01:02.780 --> 01:01:09.960 If we want to serve, you know, Jeff, those stories, and those are the stories for me that motivate me more and more every day because I'm like, it doesn't have to be this way. 01:01:09.960 --> 01:01:12.760 How can we get out there and let people know it doesn't have to be this way? 01:01:13.720 --> 01:01:16.420 But it's all within that framework that you're talking about. 01:01:16.560 --> 01:01:23.380 And so, for folks that haven't, I would just so highly recommend that because, yeah, once you have that framework and you kind of are in that framework, 01:01:23.380 --> 01:01:28.680 then you can, you know, understand some of the options and the choices and all the nuances that we talked about today. 01:01:28.980 --> 01:01:33.420 But then, yes, if you're ready to explore and you've done that, I'm excited to chat with whoever. 01:01:34.100 --> 01:01:34.180 Yeah. 01:01:34.400 --> 01:01:40.540 And that plug would have nothing to do with the fact that you were one of the videos that we show in EDM, would it? 01:01:41.380 --> 01:01:45.760 I mean, I'm in there, but it is more the idea of I'm like, hey, but that's a framework. 01:01:45.920 --> 01:01:48.080 To understand Reliant, understand the framework. 01:01:48.100 --> 01:01:48.440 You were plugging framework. 01:01:48.680 --> 01:01:50.200 I appreciate that. 01:01:50.200 --> 01:01:50.560 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 01:01:50.900 --> 01:01:51.820 No, very good. 01:01:52.180 --> 01:01:53.320 And so, yeah, thank you. 01:01:53.420 --> 01:01:54.040 Thank you for that. 01:01:54.040 --> 01:01:56.240 John, thanks for jumping on the stream here. 01:01:57.220 --> 01:02:00.760 Episode 329, what does it look like for a digital missionary? 01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:03.700 How can a digital missionary raise funds? 01:02:03.980 --> 01:02:13.700 And so Reliant has an incredible opportunity and a resource for any, the church digital missionary, any missionary to connect with. 01:02:14.180 --> 01:02:19.160 And so, John, as we're wrapping up here, any closing thoughts on your side? 01:02:21.160 --> 01:02:30.220 No, just grateful for the work that you guys are doing and continuing to, for all those that would be folks that are heading into the church digital. 01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:36.820 And it is still non-understood in some ways, in so many ways, and those sorts of things. 01:02:36.980 --> 01:02:45.240 And why you would do it, just an encouragement to go like, hey, you are doing the work that the people of God have been doing in lots of ways. 01:02:45.820 --> 01:02:56.980 And, you know, I know the statistics are just at the top of my head, but I just recently was working, chatting with somebody who has the statistics about how many people are online and the amount of time we're spending online. 01:02:57.100 --> 01:02:58.260 They're not spending time in churches. 01:02:58.540 --> 01:03:04.200 They're spending time in these spaces that we know to be real places of connection. 01:03:04.200 --> 01:03:16.720 And so as you continue to find yourself encouraged and burdened towards caring for people, just know that I see it and it is good and it's good work that you're doing. 01:03:16.780 --> 01:03:23.220 And just grateful for, thank you for saying yes to God and being present to the places that God is already at work in those lives. 01:03:23.260 --> 01:03:28.020 And then being in those lobbies, being in those servers, being in those spaces, just thank you for the work you're doing. 01:03:28.020 --> 01:03:29.480 All of you who are listening. 01:03:29.480 --> 01:03:33.820 No, it's, I mean, sometimes it does feel like thankless work. 01:03:34.360 --> 01:03:47.340 And sometimes, you know, when I know the tension when, you know, the bills aren't getting paid or the, you know, the check from the invoice is late coming in and you're not, you're dealing with that tension. 01:03:47.820 --> 01:03:57.680 And, you know, you've got the spouse with the kids with the field trip and that, you know, it just, it's hard and it can be a thankless job. 01:03:57.680 --> 01:04:01.800 And so know that we're praying for the missionaries in that space. 01:04:01.800 --> 01:04:11.600 And, you know, one of the things that I believe with the Church Digital is that we want to normalize the idea of digital missions work. 01:04:11.720 --> 01:04:19.440 You know, I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not naive enough to think that, you know, we're going to be exclusive on this forever. 01:04:20.180 --> 01:04:32.420 But I do believe that we've got an opportunity to really expose the idea at a large scale and try to create resources for the next generation to come along. 01:04:32.420 --> 01:04:45.520 And relationships with John and Reliant solve one of the major problems that comes up with digital missionaries, especially considering funding. 01:04:45.760 --> 01:04:48.580 And so questions on that, hit me up. 01:04:48.660 --> 01:04:51.260 Let's get you connected to John and we'll go for there. 01:04:51.420 --> 01:04:58.820 But we're going to wrap up episode 329 and I'm kind of impressed that I never coughed on air. 01:04:58.940 --> 01:05:00.300 I had to mute a couple of times. 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:03.540 Almost lost it there at the end, but I was able to pull it together. 01:05:04.160 --> 01:05:09.540 I think John saw me kind of lean off screen a little bit, knew to kind of stretch. 01:05:09.740 --> 01:05:10.680 Keep it going a little bit. 01:05:11.220 --> 01:05:12.220 That was good. 01:05:12.340 --> 01:05:16.320 But for, for, for John, this is Jeff with the Church Digital. 01:05:16.420 --> 01:05:19.400 From John with Reliant, this is Jeff with the Church Digital. 01:05:19.560 --> 01:05:23.060 Thanks for jumping on the pod and we'll see you next time on the stream. 01:05:23.380 --> 01:05:24.020 Y'all have a good one. 01:05:25.020 --> 01:05:25.340 Peace.