WEBVTT 00:00:00.320 --> 00:00:02.400 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:03.380 --> 00:00:07.260 Through this podcast, we'll talk about the technological innovations within the church, 00:00:07.400 --> 00:00:11.080 but more than tech for tech itself, we'll address deeper questions. 00:00:11.700 --> 00:00:13.300 Is disciple making possible digitally? 00:00:13.760 --> 00:00:15.760 How should we approach the digital mission field? 00:00:16.060 --> 00:00:18.620 Can a biblically grounded church operate in digital space? 00:00:19.060 --> 00:00:22.880 Oh, and where does the metaverse and artificial intelligence fit into all of this? 00:00:23.680 --> 00:00:25.840 Whether you're a big or small church, 00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:30.660 the Church Digital's goal is to help churches like yours learn to be a multiplying church, 00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:32.520 digitally and physically. 00:00:33.000 --> 00:00:34.680 And now here's your host, Jeff Reed. 00:00:35.420 --> 00:00:37.760 Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:37.860 --> 00:00:39.740 We're doing a live stream recording here. 00:00:39.840 --> 00:00:42.080 This is episode 332. 00:00:42.320 --> 00:00:49.440 We've got Pastor Alina and Pastor Coco from VRMMO Church off screen here for just a minute. 00:00:49.860 --> 00:00:51.280 They're anxious to go. 00:00:51.400 --> 00:00:52.640 They're excited about the conversation. 00:00:52.640 --> 00:00:55.960 They're a little nervous, maybe feeling a little bit towards this. 00:00:56.100 --> 00:00:58.760 And so now they're embarrassed that I said that they were feeling a little nervous. 00:00:58.880 --> 00:01:03.700 But it's going to be a really good conversation digging into, is the metaverse dead? 00:01:04.240 --> 00:01:09.740 You know, I keep hearing rumors of its demise, yet I still see it thriving and growing. 00:01:09.960 --> 00:01:17.800 So a good conversation from really one of the premier churches operating right now in virtual reality, VRMMO Church. 00:01:18.140 --> 00:01:21.020 So looking forward to getting that conversation here in a little bit. 00:01:21.020 --> 00:01:26.080 Heading into it, though, hey, we've got a conference coming up right around the corner. 00:01:26.960 --> 00:01:29.520 Digital Missionary Conference. 00:01:30.180 --> 00:01:33.140 And super, super excited about it. 00:01:33.300 --> 00:01:36.400 I literally, it's been last minute details. 00:01:36.600 --> 00:01:42.780 We are seven days and like eight hours or something away from this thing being a reality. 00:01:42.940 --> 00:01:47.160 It's kicking off Wednesday, April 2nd, 11 a.m. Eastern. 00:01:47.820 --> 00:01:51.660 And so 11 keynotes, 30-some breakouts. 00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:54.060 You know, and the breakouts keep coming in. 00:01:54.220 --> 00:01:58.800 Like, seriously, still getting signups and people that want to be part of this thing. 00:01:59.040 --> 00:02:00.220 I just checked registration. 00:02:00.520 --> 00:02:01.960 We are close to 700 registered. 00:02:02.500 --> 00:02:04.620 Get this, from 73 countries. 00:02:05.080 --> 00:02:10.060 There are 73 countries represented in the breakouts. 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:12.860 Or excuse me, in the registered people so far. 00:02:12.940 --> 00:02:14.040 The 700 people registered. 00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:16.300 And so super excited about this. 00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:17.020 More information. 00:02:17.220 --> 00:02:20.160 You can see it there on the screen. 00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:21.700 Does anybody else have that problem? 00:02:21.880 --> 00:02:23.560 It's always wrong hand backwards. 00:02:24.020 --> 00:02:29.200 Missionary.digital, www.missionary.digital to register for that. 00:02:29.860 --> 00:02:32.700 We've got a lot of people hanging out in chat with us. 00:02:33.040 --> 00:02:34.900 Flatcap, let's go. 00:02:35.360 --> 00:02:39.560 Steve Reed, brother from another mother, beats me, blessed, beat me. 00:02:39.980 --> 00:02:41.100 You know, Flatcap got first. 00:02:41.920 --> 00:02:43.120 Blessed day to everybody. 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:46.320 Troy Jones, who just got a new job. 00:02:46.380 --> 00:02:47.260 Excited about that. 00:02:47.260 --> 00:02:49.720 But it's also supposed to be in school right now. 00:02:49.800 --> 00:02:51.920 So should not be on this stream. 00:02:52.020 --> 00:02:55.120 Because dude, go to class, is saying hi. 00:02:56.440 --> 00:03:00.180 We've got Pastor D, who is always curious. 00:03:00.560 --> 00:03:01.400 And I'm curious. 00:03:01.680 --> 00:03:03.660 She's probably wanting to check out the metaverse. 00:03:03.760 --> 00:03:09.040 Because she is very excited about the metaverse and virtual, historically. 00:03:09.540 --> 00:03:12.300 And we've got Flatcap busting my man Troy right now. 00:03:12.400 --> 00:03:14.680 Yes, Troy, you are supposed to be in class. 00:03:15.040 --> 00:03:16.160 Get off the stream, bro. 00:03:16.160 --> 00:03:18.020 I do not want to get in trouble. 00:03:18.160 --> 00:03:24.100 Because you are ditching guitar Ian on the other coast and saying good morning. 00:03:24.260 --> 00:03:25.980 And probably some others coming on. 00:03:26.120 --> 00:03:30.220 So as you guys are watching this, interactive, of course, in the show. 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:31.160 Okay, Troy. 00:03:31.540 --> 00:03:33.860 So Troy Copocalypse. 00:03:34.780 --> 00:03:35.980 Troy's at lunch. 00:03:36.640 --> 00:03:40.160 And so it's okay for Troy to be involved because it's at lunch. 00:03:40.260 --> 00:03:45.040 Now, Troy, when lunch is over and you go to guitar class, stop. 00:03:45.760 --> 00:03:46.000 Okay? 00:03:46.320 --> 00:03:47.460 Don't be that guy. 00:03:47.940 --> 00:03:56.720 I don't want to get, like, some associate principal yelling at me because you'd be skipping class and being a distraction because you're watching the stream. 00:03:57.180 --> 00:04:00.480 Now, once you graduate in a couple weeks, you can do whatever the crap you want. 00:04:00.520 --> 00:04:00.940 I don't care. 00:04:01.300 --> 00:04:04.020 But until you graduate, until you get that diploma, do go to school. 00:04:04.300 --> 00:04:04.480 All right. 00:04:04.820 --> 00:04:05.200 All right. 00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.640 Hey, disclaimer. 00:04:07.300 --> 00:04:07.500 Yes. 00:04:07.580 --> 00:04:07.800 Okay. 00:04:07.860 --> 00:04:09.860 Troy is, in fact, going back to class. 00:04:09.960 --> 00:04:17.740 I know the rest of us were very relieved at this and excited that dude's going to finish strong up in Pennsylvania. 00:04:18.260 --> 00:04:21.120 And so, Troy, update over for this one. 00:04:21.400 --> 00:04:23.160 Hey, I'm excited about this conversation. 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:31.940 And so let me go ahead and bring into the show, I'm going to press my magic button, hope this works, Pastor Alina and Pastor Coco. 00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:33.840 How are you doing, ladies? 00:04:35.220 --> 00:04:35.900 I'm going okay. 00:04:36.520 --> 00:04:36.900 Awesome. 00:04:36.900 --> 00:04:39.740 And so it's very, very good. 00:04:40.020 --> 00:04:46.720 Well, Pastor Coco and Pastor Alina, you're all quiet, like a little reserved. 00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:54.200 Is this the normal, like, metaverse, virtual reality, MMO energy level? 00:04:54.520 --> 00:05:00.680 Is it more, like, what does energy look like for you when you're wearing the headset, Pastor Alina? 00:05:01.900 --> 00:05:08.780 Oh, it's quite the opposite of this quiet, reserved self you see here. 00:05:08.780 --> 00:05:17.900 You're just, like, you step into the space and immediately there are, you're just, like, surrounded by so many people. 00:05:18.360 --> 00:05:20.200 Just the energy is insane. 00:05:20.740 --> 00:05:24.260 Sometimes, because I'm a little older, it can be a bit much, even. 00:05:25.420 --> 00:05:27.320 It's just a lot of excitement. 00:05:27.840 --> 00:05:33.080 Everybody's always really just excited to gather and they catch up. 00:05:33.140 --> 00:05:41.180 Even though most of us will see each other a few times a week, that excitement to get together is always vibrant. 00:05:41.940 --> 00:05:42.360 Beautiful. 00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:49.360 And so VR, MMO Church, Virtual Reality, MMO, Massive Multiplayer Online Church. 00:05:49.360 --> 00:05:56.880 This was founded by and is still run by DJ Soto, who's well-known. 00:05:57.140 --> 00:06:01.360 Wired Magazine talked about him being the virtual reality pastor. 00:06:02.060 --> 00:06:04.980 And BBC has done stories on him. 00:06:05.000 --> 00:06:08.900 The Daily Show did a shtick on him for baptizing somebody in virtual reality. 00:06:08.900 --> 00:06:18.120 And so, you know, VR, MMO has really been the metaverse church kind of that has been known over the past decade or so. 00:06:18.900 --> 00:06:22.720 And recently, and Pastor Alina heads up the virtual reality campus. 00:06:22.720 --> 00:06:39.960 And then Pastor Coco, in the middle, has pivoted and really launched an MMO church in Final Fantasy, which is different, I'm assuming, than the virtual reality church. 00:06:40.180 --> 00:06:44.220 And so I'd love to get into that a little bit. 00:06:44.360 --> 00:06:47.360 But, hey, let's meet these two kind of heading into the conversation. 00:06:47.360 --> 00:06:51.200 Pastor Alina, maybe set us up a little bit here. 00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:54.740 Tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got connected to VR MMO. 00:06:56.180 --> 00:06:57.060 Oh, oh, wow. 00:06:57.180 --> 00:07:01.020 I could take up the entire time, but I will try my best not to here. 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:10.220 I discovered VR MMO Church six years ago-ish. 00:07:11.300 --> 00:07:14.600 I was a flight attendant for most of my life. 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:19.200 I became disabled about 12 or 15 years ago. 00:07:19.840 --> 00:07:26.020 And my illness, my body doesn't regulate temperature. 00:07:26.220 --> 00:07:28.200 And so it's kept me confined in my home. 00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:33.340 And so I first got into VR because I've always been a gamer. 00:07:34.140 --> 00:07:37.280 And VR was this escape for me. 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:44.160 It let me feel like I was no longer in the same for this little box that I lived in forever. 00:07:44.160 --> 00:07:49.160 And one of the first things I downloaded was alt space. 00:07:49.880 --> 00:07:51.560 Couldn't believe there was a church in there. 00:07:52.100 --> 00:07:54.980 Didn't think even that it was real. 00:07:55.140 --> 00:07:57.980 Like, we get that a lot where people don't think it's a real church. 00:07:58.320 --> 00:08:00.220 People are playing in some way. 00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.460 But as soon as I stepped in, Bishop Soto was teaching. 00:08:05.900 --> 00:08:11.140 All of the people were so welcoming, made me feel comfortable immediately. 00:08:11.640 --> 00:08:19.180 And then after hearing his teaching and just the full experience, I knew then and there, this is my forever home. 00:08:19.400 --> 00:08:21.080 Like, I just knew it. 00:08:21.080 --> 00:08:30.280 And I knew I had to do whatever I could to make sure it not only, like, it stays existing but flourishes. 00:08:30.680 --> 00:08:32.160 It was an immediate passion. 00:08:33.140 --> 00:08:36.080 And then I just started serving every which way I could. 00:08:36.300 --> 00:08:43.880 And then over the years, I started taking seminary classes and ultimately becoming a pastor here at VR Church. 00:08:45.080 --> 00:08:45.520 Awesome. 00:08:45.780 --> 00:08:47.000 And so excited. 00:08:47.100 --> 00:08:52.140 We're going to get more into the VR aspects and pastoring and virtual reality and all that. 00:08:52.140 --> 00:09:10.180 But what's come out in the past, Pastor Coco, two years, three years, a pivot towards not just virtual reality but into these MMO video games like Final Fantasy and Rust and Black Desert. 00:09:10.440 --> 00:09:16.580 But specifically, Pastor Coco heads up the Final Fantasy campus. 00:09:16.580 --> 00:09:21.220 And so, Pastor Coco, maybe tell a bit about your story and how you got connected into the church. 00:09:22.140 --> 00:09:32.900 Well, I got connected in 2020 and I had joined to help with the MMO aspect of it in 2020 because it was still in the experimental discovery phases. 00:09:33.800 --> 00:09:41.660 And I have a long background in emerging tech design and that's actually what I do for a living. 00:09:42.360 --> 00:09:50.100 And so, when the COVID layoffs happened and I was re-examining my existence, I'm like, I wonder if there's a church in VR. 00:09:50.100 --> 00:10:02.100 And so, I googled VR church and there was a VR church and I connected with DJ and wanted to volunteer for VR and then I found out about this MMO side. 00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:07.600 And I'm like, well, my friends have been trying to convince me to play Final Fantasy, so why not? 00:10:07.880 --> 00:10:08.840 I'll volunteer for that. 00:10:09.540 --> 00:10:17.560 And yeah, and never planned on becoming a pastor and DJ tapped me on the shoulder and Alina can say the same thing. 00:10:18.060 --> 00:10:19.020 I was just here to help. 00:10:19.500 --> 00:10:21.540 And then DJ said, you lead. 00:10:22.940 --> 00:10:23.800 So, here I am. 00:10:24.360 --> 00:10:24.920 That's awesome. 00:10:25.520 --> 00:10:26.820 Delegation is so cool, right? 00:10:26.960 --> 00:10:29.360 It's like, hey, glad you're here. 00:10:29.900 --> 00:10:30.340 Take over. 00:10:30.880 --> 00:10:31.580 That's beautiful. 00:10:32.540 --> 00:10:34.860 Hey, so let's dig in. 00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:37.420 You know, it's kind of tongue-in-cheek. 00:10:37.540 --> 00:10:39.200 Is the metaverse dead? 00:10:39.780 --> 00:10:50.380 It feels like in some circles there's not as much attention into virtual reality as there was during the kind of the initial push. 00:10:50.640 --> 00:10:53.360 COVID brought a lot of attention to it. 00:10:54.220 --> 00:10:58.840 That being said, Altspace was really a strong push for a while. 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:10.140 Microsoft shut that down and poured some of their energy into what is now, you know, chat GPT and AI is kind of the tech push it feels like for a while. 00:11:10.580 --> 00:11:15.680 But the time that I'm spending in virtual reality, there's still tons of people involved. 00:11:15.680 --> 00:11:20.400 I'm still seeing technology being worked on and software being developed. 00:11:20.820 --> 00:11:24.120 And I'm seeing churches grow and expand in this space. 00:11:24.260 --> 00:11:27.980 So, it doesn't actually feel like anything is dead or changed. 00:11:28.540 --> 00:11:30.280 Pastor Alina, what's your experience? 00:11:30.380 --> 00:11:33.220 What are you guys feeling over out of VRMMO? 00:11:33.480 --> 00:11:34.740 Is this thing really dead? 00:11:35.900 --> 00:11:36.620 Oh, gosh, no. 00:11:36.840 --> 00:11:37.740 No, no, no. 00:11:37.780 --> 00:11:38.540 Definitely not dead. 00:11:39.320 --> 00:11:49.320 Yes, there was this, like, spike during COVID where just there was immense growth. 00:11:50.120 --> 00:12:02.640 And, of course, as society opened back up and people could go out on their own, some of those people, sure, don't come always or as often. 00:12:03.260 --> 00:12:04.800 But we continue to grow. 00:12:04.900 --> 00:12:07.920 We continue to get new people all of the time. 00:12:09.560 --> 00:12:13.240 And it's, we're just at the beginning. 00:12:13.880 --> 00:12:25.420 Like, this idea of we've already hit our peak and now it's dead or going away, is, we haven't really even begun, in all honesty. 00:12:26.980 --> 00:12:33.960 This is, without a doubt, an emerging and growing platform. 00:12:35.240 --> 00:12:38.640 And, yeah, still a lot of exciting things to come. 00:12:38.820 --> 00:12:40.140 So many exciting things to come. 00:12:40.260 --> 00:12:40.480 Yeah. 00:12:40.880 --> 00:12:49.840 Let's talk a little here about it because, you know, the idea of Flatcap is saying there, Flatcap Dapper, where two or three are gathered in the name of Jesus. 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:58.920 It is a church and, you know, I know Flatcap's been working alongside you all and doing some and helping out in the VR side and both sides. 00:12:58.920 --> 00:13:02.060 But talk to us a little bit here. 00:13:02.760 --> 00:13:08.420 What does church look like in virtual reality? 00:13:08.740 --> 00:13:12.960 Like, describe, you know, I wish, put on headsets and get in there. 00:13:13.040 --> 00:13:13.920 It doesn't do its service. 00:13:14.060 --> 00:13:19.360 But talk to us a little bit here about what the church experience is in VR. 00:13:20.880 --> 00:13:33.100 So, first of all, it's impossible to ever explain in a way that someone who hasn't experienced it can't, they just can't wrap their mind around. 00:13:33.980 --> 00:13:48.440 Just the VR experience itself, when you put on this little headset, you really do feel as if you are in the presence of others or that you are in that space. 00:13:48.440 --> 00:13:55.700 If you're going and doing a VR thing that's not social, that the immersion is like indescribable. 00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:57.020 Again, you can't describe it. 00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:04.320 When I step into, say, church, there are people all around. 00:14:04.460 --> 00:14:06.240 We're very excited to see each other. 00:14:07.120 --> 00:14:08.520 We hug one another. 00:14:09.380 --> 00:14:12.340 And it feels like you're hugging one another. 00:14:12.340 --> 00:14:22.240 Like, whatever endorphins is put out like in a normal hug, it is the same thing. 00:14:22.440 --> 00:14:27.180 Your body has the same response as if it were a physical experience. 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:42.040 Church in VR is particularly exciting because you definitely, again, it's not like you're watching a stream, something that's happening like you're an observer. 00:14:42.340 --> 00:14:44.980 You are absolutely in it. 00:14:46.280 --> 00:14:49.780 And in VR, we're able to build spaces. 00:14:49.780 --> 00:14:54.640 And we do, especially in Rec Room, new worlds for every sermon. 00:14:55.300 --> 00:14:56.880 We have a team that does that. 00:14:56.880 --> 00:15:06.840 So you're not just like listening to a pastor who's just speaking all this time, but you're walking through that environment that is created just for that. 00:15:07.580 --> 00:15:14.380 And there's a lot of opportunity because you're not standing like on a podium with everybody out there. 00:15:14.480 --> 00:15:15.840 You're walking together. 00:15:16.160 --> 00:15:21.420 So there's a lot of opportunity to engage with people in the middle of service. 00:15:21.420 --> 00:15:34.100 So it's less, you know, one person doing all of the sharing of God's wisdom and we do it together. 00:15:34.100 --> 00:15:36.280 There's very much a together attitude. 00:15:36.620 --> 00:15:46.960 There's like this, sometimes the pastor in the congregation, there can be this separation or this wall where in VR, and I'm sure on the MMO side as well, 00:15:47.600 --> 00:15:51.920 it's that wall is torn down and we're doing it together. 00:15:52.400 --> 00:15:54.580 And to me, that's really exciting. 00:15:55.360 --> 00:15:55.520 Yeah. 00:15:56.020 --> 00:16:00.660 And so you're, I know you mentioned Rec Room a couple of times. 00:16:00.660 --> 00:16:09.760 That's one of the social worlds, one of the virtual reality platforms that exists that people really come together and connect with. 00:16:10.280 --> 00:16:15.720 Rec Room is really tied to a lot of the video game systems. 00:16:16.060 --> 00:16:22.160 And so it tends to be a little younger audience, a little skewed, a little younger, I think. 00:16:22.360 --> 00:16:27.480 And so, but in addition to Rec Room, you're also in VR Chat. 00:16:27.660 --> 00:16:28.640 That's the other one, correct? 00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:29.900 Correct. 00:16:29.900 --> 00:16:36.100 And so, like, in VR Chat, you know, DJ Soto calls it the wild, wild west. 00:16:36.160 --> 00:16:37.380 I've heard him talk about that. 00:16:37.860 --> 00:16:41.040 You know, for some level I've talked about it being the red light district. 00:16:41.040 --> 00:16:49.060 It's kind of no parental controls, and it goes, you know, people are a little more free to express themselves, the good and the bad. 00:16:50.020 --> 00:16:54.940 Like, what does ministry look like in both of those spaces? 00:16:55.320 --> 00:17:05.400 You're dealing with maybe a more immature kid in one realm, and then you're dealing with unfiltered adults in the other. 00:17:05.400 --> 00:17:13.240 And so how do you, do you change things in between the worlds, or what's your approach maybe in both of those spaces? 00:17:14.540 --> 00:17:19.780 So that's really interesting, because Rec Room and VR Chat couldn't be more opposite. 00:17:21.460 --> 00:17:27.500 And Rec Room definitely has a younger crowd, but there are plenty of adults as well. 00:17:27.500 --> 00:17:31.140 It's just, it's a, for those young at heart, I love it. 00:17:31.680 --> 00:17:38.460 And I'm only young at heart, not young in, you know, age. 00:17:39.520 --> 00:17:42.100 And then VR Chat is, like you said, it's the wild, wild west. 00:17:43.020 --> 00:17:48.560 Yeah, and with an older crowd, for the most part. 00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:57.140 And we don't really change, I don't change anything between my Rec Room experience and my VR Chat experience, 00:17:57.140 --> 00:18:07.500 as in how I engage with people, because that engagement should always, like, be the same. 00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:16.740 And in Rec Room, these people are hungry in the same way that VR Chat people are. 00:18:16.740 --> 00:18:22.060 Like, they're all coming, even those different locations, they're coming for the same purpose. 00:18:22.380 --> 00:18:30.360 Like, often they aren't comfortable or are unwelcome in a physical church. 00:18:30.700 --> 00:18:37.720 So, whether they be older or younger, they're often coming from a similar, like, background or perspective. 00:18:38.820 --> 00:18:46.700 And in VR Chat, they're older and more comfortable talking, which is really cool. 00:18:47.080 --> 00:18:54.500 So, in VR Chat, we have a lot better communication with the community. 00:18:54.680 --> 00:19:04.120 We have these community Sundays, which are held in Rec Room and in VR Chat, where instead of the sermon from a pastor or teacher, 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:14.920 we take that hour to focus on building the community, so that the community can care for itself. 00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:24.520 So, it's not just a pastor care for all of the people, which is impossible, but getting the community to care for itself. 00:19:25.580 --> 00:19:39.340 In VR Chat, they're older, so they're more comfortable opening up, and they often open up about things that no one would dream about bringing up in, say, a physical church. 00:19:39.820 --> 00:19:39.900 Yeah. 00:19:40.140 --> 00:19:49.080 There's this comfort, and the community is just excited to engage and help people. 00:19:49.080 --> 00:19:59.780 We talk about everyday life and the challenges and how we can live for Christ in this complicated world, in this difficult world. 00:20:00.600 --> 00:20:14.520 And so, from depression to standing strong in your faith when you're surrounded, say, in VR Chat, by, like, a lot of damaging. 00:20:15.160 --> 00:20:18.200 There's, like you said, red light, wild, wild west. 00:20:19.160 --> 00:20:26.160 How do you stand in your faith when you're surrounded by all of this that's trying to tug you away? 00:20:26.620 --> 00:20:26.820 Yeah. 00:20:26.960 --> 00:20:27.380 Pardon me. 00:20:27.580 --> 00:20:28.760 I'll have to get rid of that. 00:20:30.160 --> 00:20:35.480 And so, we have similar conversations in Rec Room. 00:20:35.820 --> 00:20:44.720 It's just usually people are not quite as open, but they do, but not nearly quite as open to talk about things. 00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:53.660 And, again, that's one of my favorite things about digital ministry is the engagement that we can have with the community, the not one-sided thing. 00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:56.400 So, yeah. 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:56.820 I love that. 00:20:57.220 --> 00:21:05.480 And you are, I mean, you're engaging with a different type of person in virtual reality than that who would go to a physical church building. 00:21:06.100 --> 00:21:08.160 Like, you know, I kind of have this running joke. 00:21:08.280 --> 00:21:15.820 Nobody in the history of time has ever said, I'm going to skip going to church in the building today, and instead, I'm going to go to church in virtual reality. 00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:33.080 Like, you know, my experience in these spaces, it's atheist agnostics, it's people that have walked away from the church, no exposure to church or God whatsoever, not even understanding who Jesus is as a person, what the cross symbolizes. 00:21:33.080 --> 00:21:37.360 Or like she said, not welcome at the church. 00:21:37.880 --> 00:21:49.940 Yeah, and I know, Coco, that's something that you, you know, highlight a lot and protect, you feel like you need to protect within VRMMO. 00:21:50.300 --> 00:21:53.060 Do you maybe want to expand a little bit and share a little bit about that? 00:21:54.220 --> 00:21:57.480 About the people that aren't welcome in physical church? 00:21:58.780 --> 00:21:59.260 Yeah. 00:21:59.260 --> 00:22:03.520 Yeah, we get, it's actually where we get the most flack. 00:22:04.280 --> 00:22:06.860 And you're always talking about people getting shot. 00:22:07.320 --> 00:22:19.980 This is where we get the most flack is because we will let the atheists, the agnostics, the people with really difficult questions that Christians usually get offended by them asking. 00:22:20.620 --> 00:22:41.060 And, but they don't feel safe to ask and we'll get Muslims, we'll get Hindu, we'll get all kinds of people, LGBTQ people, and we welcome them and we give them a safe place to get to know Jesus without trying to force them to meet some kind of standard. 00:22:41.060 --> 00:22:47.360 We meet them where they are, we meet them where they are, just like Jesus did, and we try to help them grow at their pace. 00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:56.720 And that's not something that those people get in real life church, at least from my experience with real life church. 00:22:57.640 --> 00:23:04.480 How, so I would love to, I want to come back to that, and it's interesting. 00:23:04.680 --> 00:23:10.700 Axel says here, we talk a lot about church hurt, don't we? 00:23:10.900 --> 00:23:12.880 You know, I know that that's a dream. 00:23:12.880 --> 00:23:13.320 Yeah, he's one of mine. 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:19.740 Yeah, that feels, you know, I feel that in the metaverse space and can recognize that. 00:23:19.860 --> 00:23:24.140 But let's, I want to dig in a little bit before we go too far down that trail. 00:23:25.060 --> 00:23:29.380 MMO, like you were, so you're doing church and virtual reality. 00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:37.580 VR church was a thing for probably a decade before you started to swing over and explore the MMO side. 00:23:37.580 --> 00:23:43.520 And I know there were some experiments with some things, and we landed in Final Fantasy that's still operating today. 00:23:44.140 --> 00:23:51.340 Pastor Coco, can you maybe explain a little bit about what that experience was, like where you guys tested, 00:23:51.800 --> 00:23:58.120 and a little bit about like what church actually looks like in a video game like Final Fantasy? 00:23:59.720 --> 00:24:03.000 Yeah, we've tested in a bunch of different games. 00:24:03.280 --> 00:24:04.140 We've done GTA. 00:24:04.640 --> 00:24:05.920 Alina was a part of that. 00:24:05.920 --> 00:24:10.000 I didn't play that one, that DJ and Alina were playing it, so they can tell you more about it. 00:24:10.420 --> 00:24:19.140 But did Rust, and that ran for a little while, and Black Desert Online, and Final Fantasy XIV. 00:24:20.060 --> 00:24:21.860 And all of them had potential. 00:24:22.120 --> 00:24:24.500 Rust had great potential, and it was doing really well. 00:24:25.000 --> 00:24:30.620 And the problem is that we can't do it all. 00:24:30.620 --> 00:24:33.180 So we have to get other people to run those different platforms. 00:24:34.260 --> 00:24:39.520 And the people that were helping with the different platforms, like Black Desert, disappeared. 00:24:40.220 --> 00:24:42.060 So it's like they just stopped coming. 00:24:42.940 --> 00:24:47.940 And Rust, we didn't have the people to keep it going. 00:24:48.900 --> 00:24:52.440 So I'm the last standing, basically. 00:24:52.600 --> 00:24:53.600 That's how it's going. 00:24:55.600 --> 00:24:57.560 So I'm curious. 00:24:57.560 --> 00:25:00.780 Let's dig in. 00:25:01.020 --> 00:25:18.500 What does volunteering for Final Fantasy or for Rust, like what type of skill set, what type of personality, what type of person would be volunteering for some of these MMO games, church in these games? 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:20.420 Well, they're all different. 00:25:20.820 --> 00:25:21.780 Every single one is different. 00:25:21.880 --> 00:25:24.920 You cannot lift and shift from one experience to the next. 00:25:24.980 --> 00:25:32.600 So you have to play it and learn it, learn the culture, just like you would if you're going out in a physical location to a different mission field. 00:25:32.940 --> 00:25:33.340 Okay. 00:25:33.460 --> 00:25:34.740 Same thing in digital. 00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:39.440 And so Rust, absolutely, completely different personality than Final Fantasy XIV. 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:43.200 I don't know that there would be many people that like both. 00:25:43.900 --> 00:25:44.180 Okay. 00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:47.500 So walk me through specifically, because you're in Final Fantasy. 00:25:48.380 --> 00:25:49.620 Walk me through that. 00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:50.420 What type of person? 00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:52.560 By the way, my daughter is obsessed with Final Fantasy. 00:25:53.260 --> 00:25:57.260 She is in Tokyo right now. 00:25:58.040 --> 00:26:03.520 And she's actually, tomorrow, she's going to the Square Enix headquarters. 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:04.540 That's Final Fantasy, right? 00:26:05.320 --> 00:26:05.660 Yeah. 00:26:05.880 --> 00:26:08.520 So she loves Final Fantasy. 00:26:08.900 --> 00:26:12.860 And so, like, I know my daughter comes to mind when I think about the question. 00:26:12.980 --> 00:26:21.120 But, like, what type of personality, what type of person, like, who would you be looking for in the Final Fantasy volunteering? 00:26:23.180 --> 00:26:30.640 Well, our group, I don't know if it's just by coincidence or not, but it's over 20. 00:26:31.100 --> 00:26:36.360 So we don't have, we have a couple of teens that show up every now and then, but most everyone's like adult. 00:26:37.240 --> 00:26:43.240 And we're, come from all different backgrounds. 00:26:43.380 --> 00:26:46.000 We've got mothers that, we have stay-at-home moms. 00:26:46.140 --> 00:26:50.500 We have people that work all day and just come home to unwind in Final Fantasy. 00:26:50.600 --> 00:26:55.380 We've got a whole slew of different backgrounds coming in. 00:26:55.740 --> 00:27:01.960 And the personality that I see mostly in Final Fantasy is one that just really values community. 00:27:03.160 --> 00:27:17.980 And the MMO sets up, it enables that community in ways that, and I'm not, you can get community in VR and in Rec Room and stuff. 00:27:17.980 --> 00:27:22.020 But MMOs are meant for teamwork, meant for community. 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:23.020 Interesting. 00:27:23.020 --> 00:27:24.340 So we, yeah. 00:27:24.880 --> 00:27:35.640 And so, like, from a gamer perspective, is this like, I'm using words I don't even understand, but is this like a guild where you're creating a group of friends in the community? 00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:43.300 Or are you engaging with new people outside of that you're meeting in the community and bringing them in? 00:27:43.300 --> 00:27:51.420 Like, I recognize how video games, most people would recognize how video games do allow for a community to exist. 00:27:51.860 --> 00:28:01.620 I'm curious, though, because church is a different level of community, or the perception is, and that may not exist in video game space. 00:28:01.620 --> 00:28:08.260 How do you capitalize on video game community to be the church for others? 00:28:10.700 --> 00:28:12.020 Well, each game's different. 00:28:12.980 --> 00:28:15.920 Let's talk Final Fantasy, since that's what you're most comfortable. 00:28:16.280 --> 00:28:28.040 They do have guilds, they're called free companies, but we don't focus on those because the way the servers are set up and the way we get people from all over the world. 00:28:28.160 --> 00:28:36.340 Our last church service had people from New Zealand, Australia, the Europe, Canada, Mexico, and the United States. 00:28:37.160 --> 00:28:46.640 So since we can't all, the servers are set up regionally, so not everyone's going to be able to play together unless we travel. 00:28:46.820 --> 00:28:49.700 So we can't do free companies across servers. 00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:52.400 So we don't bother with the free company. 00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:58.240 We have one for the people that want to come over to that server and join it, but we don't focus on the free company. 00:28:58.420 --> 00:29:11.460 We just focus on, we find our people by putting videos on YouTube, and then they come into Discord, and then we connect that way. 00:29:12.620 --> 00:29:15.280 And then we just play together. 00:29:15.620 --> 00:29:17.380 We do play sessions, and we play together. 00:29:17.380 --> 00:29:21.140 We meet together on a server, but we don't meet in-game. 00:29:21.260 --> 00:29:23.500 We meet from YouTube and Discord. 00:29:23.860 --> 00:29:29.420 Okay, so Discord, a synchronous community, is really the hub. 00:29:30.040 --> 00:29:37.620 And so you're connecting with people via YouTube, and Discord's where you're really developing the relationship. 00:29:38.100 --> 00:29:40.920 And then you're strengthening the relationship by playing in-game. 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:48.360 So it's really like a shared thing between the video game, YouTube, and Discord. 00:29:48.560 --> 00:29:51.940 Those are kind of like the three platforms you're using. 00:29:52.120 --> 00:29:53.100 I love that. 00:29:53.360 --> 00:30:01.800 And then the virtual reality side, you're utilizing Discord as well to build relationships outside of headset time. 00:30:02.040 --> 00:30:02.820 Is that correct? 00:30:03.860 --> 00:30:09.200 It is, but I would probably say it's the other way around on the VR side. 00:30:09.520 --> 00:30:09.780 Okay. 00:30:09.920 --> 00:30:23.500 I see the relationships forming in VR and then continuing in Discord just by nature because you are, it really feels like you're there in person. 00:30:24.220 --> 00:30:30.520 So in a small amount of time, you're talking face-to-face, just like we're talking face-to-face. 00:30:31.380 --> 00:30:34.340 So we're not messaging and waiting for someone else to reply. 00:30:34.620 --> 00:30:35.960 You're just having a conversation. 00:30:36.800 --> 00:30:44.600 And so that's when most of our relationships are formed in these conversations that we're having. 00:30:44.600 --> 00:30:51.440 And then in Discord, that's how we connect with everyone else because we are one church. 00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.620 We're doing this together. 00:30:54.360 --> 00:30:58.200 Even though we meet on different platforms, we're all in this together. 00:30:58.820 --> 00:31:01.900 And so Discord is where we connect with each other. 00:31:02.960 --> 00:31:10.880 And yes, there's lots of conversation going on in Discord across the various people from the different platforms. 00:31:11.560 --> 00:31:13.780 And so it continues in Discord. 00:31:13.780 --> 00:31:22.360 I love the fact that even as a church, you have different strategies really using the same tools. 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:32.300 Like the role of Discord in MMO versus VR, the role of the video game versus virtual reality. 00:31:32.760 --> 00:31:39.720 Like you're adjusting, and I kind of unintentionally am pressuring Coco, like what's the MMO answer? 00:31:39.820 --> 00:31:43.560 And she's like, well, you know, in Final Fantasy, it's this. 00:31:43.900 --> 00:31:46.220 And in Rust, it would be something completely different. 00:31:46.860 --> 00:31:47.760 There's no one. 00:31:48.240 --> 00:31:52.500 You know, Flatcap just literally put it in chat right now. 00:31:52.580 --> 00:31:53.920 It's a multi-campus. 00:31:54.000 --> 00:31:57.120 It's a multi-platform, you know, digital church. 00:31:57.120 --> 00:32:13.360 And it's not like it's, you know, a multi-site where it's centralized, where, you know, I attended a session once from a U.S.-based organization that was like, literally, it was like, what can a multi-site church learn from Walmart? 00:32:13.840 --> 00:32:18.320 Because it was all about franchising and creating that centralized feel across all the campuses. 00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:20.260 This is not a multi-site. 00:32:20.380 --> 00:32:30.400 This is more of like a multi-church where you're planting something in VR, where you're planting something in Final Fantasy, or you're planting something. 00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:42.740 I would love to see a GTA church, Grand Theft Auto, just the kind of the cojones to actually put something together, the gravitas of reaching somebody in that space. 00:32:42.880 --> 00:32:45.280 Like, I need to reach out to them, figure that out. 00:32:45.520 --> 00:32:58.660 Like, to be able to do unique things, to be stylized, to connect with those specific people, using specific strategies, recognizing different people operate differently. 00:32:58.820 --> 00:33:02.240 Like, that's a beautiful thing to explore. 00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:10.500 Let me ask this question of both of you, for VR, for MMO, for Final Fantasy, whatever the context. 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:19.320 What is the one thing you can do in your unique church expressions that cannot happen physically? 00:33:19.740 --> 00:33:26.380 What can you all do in virtual reality and Final Fantasy that cannot happen in a physical church? 00:33:29.400 --> 00:33:30.700 Pastor Lena, you want to go first? 00:33:30.780 --> 00:33:31.520 I'll put you on the spot. 00:33:32.660 --> 00:33:33.100 Sure. 00:33:33.600 --> 00:33:38.900 One of the coolest things is that we can gather from all over the world. 00:33:39.060 --> 00:33:42.460 We're not limited to our local space. 00:33:43.020 --> 00:33:56.540 So, this helps us, because as a church, we also feel strongly that we want people to come to their own, we want to help people to get to the point where they can come to their own understanding. 00:33:56.920 --> 00:34:04.240 We don't want to force anything down anyone's throats and say, you must understand this, this, all the same. 00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:14.120 And when you have a global church, you're exposed to a lot of new ideas, because church, one place is very different, and understandings can be very different. 00:34:14.660 --> 00:34:21.200 And we provide this space where people are free to discover and talk about these things. 00:34:21.200 --> 00:34:25.700 And it's a great place for re-evaluating. 00:34:26.200 --> 00:34:30.180 Like, you know, sometimes we grow up with ideas, and that's what we've been told. 00:34:30.440 --> 00:34:40.780 And when we're limited to always that same small group of people, we don't get the opportunity to see that maybe we're mistaken in some places. 00:34:41.160 --> 00:34:44.940 And so, it creates that, which I absolutely love. 00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:48.680 It's the gathering of different minds. 00:34:50.280 --> 00:34:50.760 Yeah. 00:34:50.840 --> 00:34:52.260 Pastor Coco, does that echo for you? 00:34:53.500 --> 00:34:53.940 Yeah. 00:34:54.060 --> 00:35:03.260 Just like I was saying, our last service, we had people from Spain, UK, Canada, Europe, Mexico, Australia, New Zealand. 00:35:03.820 --> 00:35:06.820 It's like, are you going to get that in a physical language? 00:35:07.620 --> 00:35:10.500 Maybe if they travel there, but no. 00:35:11.360 --> 00:35:13.420 It's definitely hard to get that feel. 00:35:13.420 --> 00:35:29.960 We have conversations around, we learn what a church is like in other countries and their understandings of certain scriptures that are different based on your translations of the Bible, because English is very different than German. 00:35:31.000 --> 00:35:43.420 And so, we learn, and like she said, it's like we have a broader understanding of just our stuck, for me, United States evangelical Christian upbringing. 00:35:44.380 --> 00:35:47.160 And you don't get that in physical church. 00:35:47.160 --> 00:35:53.500 You're stuck with who's there, and you're stuck with the mindsets of that local region, which is often very close-minded. 00:35:53.900 --> 00:36:05.780 So, having that global community and global perspective opens up your mind to what the world is actually, what is actually going on in the world, because we're often very sheltered from that. 00:36:06.780 --> 00:36:12.520 Let me, I'm going to pull the thread on that, because I'm curious what this response is, Pastor Coco. 00:36:13.540 --> 00:36:21.820 You, so, you're talking about how Final Fantasy has a very strong culture, right? 00:36:22.020 --> 00:36:26.980 And so, like, it's a unique persona, the type of people that are engaging in that. 00:36:27.600 --> 00:36:30.100 Globally, you're seeing reach, and people are engaging. 00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:37.020 You're talking multiple continents, multiple countries, and, you know, some of the countries you're rattling off. 00:36:37.020 --> 00:36:44.700 Like, even Europe and America, Europe is post-Christian, and so, as a result, Christianity looks different. 00:36:44.860 --> 00:36:47.680 You're talking Mexico, Hispanic, strong Catholic. 00:36:47.680 --> 00:36:56.660 That has a different kind of expression, and you're saying that countries kind of have their unique spin on church and Christianity as well. 00:36:57.500 --> 00:37:04.440 What is the—I've kind of been theorizing on something, and I would love you to say I'm wrong, if I am. 00:37:06.100 --> 00:37:16.020 I've been talking about how that the culture of the platform that we go into, Final Fantasy, that culture is predominant. 00:37:16.020 --> 00:37:21.060 It leads over the secondary culture, which would be the countries that we're from. 00:37:21.600 --> 00:37:33.440 Would you agree with that, or do you feel like, you know, a Hispanic, someone from Mexico, the Hispanic influence is stronger than the influence of the platform? 00:37:33.800 --> 00:37:34.940 Does the question make sense? 00:37:35.060 --> 00:37:36.760 Am I kind of clear in explaining it? 00:37:36.760 --> 00:37:43.580 Yeah, I would say that the Final Fantasy culture wins out because it's something that we can all unite under. 00:37:43.580 --> 00:37:50.320 Just like we're all supposed to be uniting under the banner of Christ, at least in Final Fantasy, we're uniting under Final Fantasy 14. 00:37:51.040 --> 00:38:03.260 So we have the unity in that, but there is a little difference, and one of the reasons they don't allow cross-regional data center play as much. 00:38:03.260 --> 00:38:10.620 I mean, it's opening up, but there's still some lockdown on that is because there are still different cultures. 00:38:11.120 --> 00:38:16.780 So like the Japan, you can't go play on the Japan one because they have a different culture. 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:23.740 And if anyone from the other cultures comes in there, it could cause a lot of strife. 00:38:24.680 --> 00:38:25.080 Wow. 00:38:25.160 --> 00:38:31.600 And so Square Enix is aware of that, and so they protect that. 00:38:34.020 --> 00:38:37.180 And help me out, y'all, that are from Final Fantasy in the chat. 00:38:37.280 --> 00:38:39.940 What else do y'all see that's different about MMO? 00:38:39.940 --> 00:38:41.280 Yeah, I'd love to hear. 00:38:41.760 --> 00:38:43.640 We got, looks like Bunny. 00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:47.660 At least I'm recognizing a lot of people I don't usually see and hear. 00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:48.400 Bunny L. 00:38:48.420 --> 00:38:49.240 Bunny Axel. 00:38:49.320 --> 00:38:51.620 Is Axel as well. 00:38:52.580 --> 00:38:54.220 We love the community aspects. 00:38:54.820 --> 00:38:55.400 They may be around. 00:38:56.280 --> 00:38:56.760 Tonic. 00:38:57.300 --> 00:38:58.660 Is Tonic you? 00:38:58.800 --> 00:38:59.420 Mostly adult. 00:38:59.500 --> 00:39:01.200 He was making a comment on that earlier. 00:39:01.900 --> 00:39:03.520 But I love that. 00:39:03.580 --> 00:39:06.020 We've got Steve Reed making a comment. 00:39:06.220 --> 00:39:13.500 Steve's brother from another mother on my side truly sounds to me like Ecclesia Jesus meant the church to be. 00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:14.660 It's interesting. 00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.560 Steve's on the older side of the equation. 00:39:19.020 --> 00:39:20.800 Steve mocks me because I call him an old man. 00:39:22.140 --> 00:39:23.660 So, but he's not, he's not. 00:39:23.820 --> 00:39:24.240 Yeah, he is. 00:39:24.280 --> 00:39:27.040 He's an old man, but he's, he's young at heart. 00:39:27.140 --> 00:39:27.820 Let's say it that way. 00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:30.600 Rexy, Rexy, Ronan, the cat. 00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:33.960 They're one of the ones that goes across both. 00:39:34.860 --> 00:39:35.020 Yeah. 00:39:35.540 --> 00:39:37.140 Rexy will show up at our services. 00:39:37.700 --> 00:39:37.720 Yeah. 00:39:37.760 --> 00:39:38.060 Okay. 00:39:38.160 --> 00:39:40.180 So, so she does Final Fantasy and VR. 00:39:40.720 --> 00:39:43.740 Do you see, is that, is that the majority? 00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:44.720 Is that a minority? 00:39:45.560 --> 00:39:48.440 A couple of people, minority towards that. 00:39:51.440 --> 00:40:01.260 Um, is, is there, I mean, you're mentioning like, um, Grand Theft Auto as a possibility and, and just selfishly, I just really want to see that happen. 00:40:01.620 --> 00:40:12.540 But, um, like, is, is there, is there a roadmap for what's next or, or, uh, uh, you know, a passion area to explore next, even at an individual level? 00:40:12.540 --> 00:40:19.380 Like what, what are you all thinking about where, uh, VR MMO is going next? 00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:22.320 Well, our plans are continue to plant. 00:40:22.600 --> 00:40:28.220 That's as we all have the, at least amongst the leaders, we all have that apostolic gifting. 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.460 And so we're going to always want to plant. 00:40:32.380 --> 00:40:36.760 Um, but as you know, we're working on the multiplication aspect. 00:40:36.760 --> 00:40:39.700 So it can't just be me and DJ and Alina that are doing it. 00:40:40.020 --> 00:40:45.620 And, um, so we have to raise up the leaders to go do that. 00:40:45.700 --> 00:40:55.800 And DJ's got plans that he's working out in his brain that he's always working on something and he's not ready to share those yet, but he's working. 00:40:57.080 --> 00:41:00.660 It's, it's, it's fun to see the wheels spinning in, in, in his head. 00:41:00.660 --> 00:41:15.500 But I would, um, you know, I love, I love the idea of, of having a foundation in place and not rushing into doing something before you have the, um, the structure in place to manage it. 00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:21.580 You know, so often in, in, in physical church, it's, it's like, okay, we gotta, we gotta launch this campus. 00:41:21.580 --> 00:41:23.040 We gotta launch, launch this church. 00:41:23.140 --> 00:41:25.040 Let's burn the ships and get there. 00:41:25.580 --> 00:41:33.820 And, you know, by the time you actually get it launched, you're not, you're, you're, you're fried and you're, you don't even have the stability to maintain it. 00:41:34.320 --> 00:41:37.040 Um, and that's one of the things that, yeah. 00:41:37.380 --> 00:41:54.720 And, and, but, you know, you all kind of circling the wagons up here for a stretch and, and focusing on a good, healthy culture, multiplying leadership development and, and, uh, being able to create a healthy foundation to be able to manage where you're, where you're going. 00:41:55.180 --> 00:42:07.320 Um, I, uh, I just, I see that moving very well for, for you in, in, in the weeks and in the, in the months and in the years to come to be able to be healthy as, as you're growing and multiplying towards that. 00:42:07.680 --> 00:42:14.700 Well, I know one of the things that we, we had talked about earlier, uh, was kind of the, the, the church hurt, uh, towards that. 00:42:14.740 --> 00:42:16.100 And, you know, I've seen that. 00:42:16.180 --> 00:42:17.760 I don't even want to call out in this conversation. 00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:31.060 Like I've seen that in, in, in my interactions and in virtual reality and, um, and, and, um, what I've seen in, in some of the video conversations that even, uh, Coco, Pastor Coco, you and I have had. 00:42:31.060 --> 00:42:46.260 Um, what is it like to, to, to pastor, to shepherd, uh, that people that, that are struggling, um, with, with some of this, this church hurt or, or, or pain or addiction or depression? 00:42:46.260 --> 00:42:51.900 Like there's a lot of darkness in, in, in these, in these areas that, that you're in. 00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:55.340 What is it like to pastor and shepherd people in these spaces? 00:42:57.480 --> 00:42:58.360 Do you want to go first? 00:42:58.560 --> 00:42:58.840 May I? 00:42:59.620 --> 00:43:00.700 Or you go, go, go, go ahead. 00:43:01.280 --> 00:43:01.400 Go. 00:43:02.420 --> 00:43:03.420 Go ahead, Pastor Coco. 00:43:04.200 --> 00:43:04.800 Flip a coin. 00:43:04.900 --> 00:43:05.200 Go, go, go, go, go. 00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:13.340 We do see a lot of, we do see a lot of the dark that, honestly, I don't think that a lot of people see in physical. 00:43:14.180 --> 00:43:23.320 We see a lot of dark and we see a lot of the by-products of parents letting digital devices raise their children. 00:43:24.220 --> 00:43:33.120 We see a lot of, yeah, that I don't really want to go into details, but yeah, we do see a lot of that dark and we don't have all the answers. 00:43:33.120 --> 00:43:37.480 Cause we're still like realizing as we go and connecting dots as we go. 00:43:37.580 --> 00:43:39.500 Oh, I think this is the issue. 00:43:39.980 --> 00:43:42.160 And so now how do we deal with that? 00:43:43.180 --> 00:43:44.620 We're still figuring it out. 00:43:45.240 --> 00:43:47.480 Prayers is definitely something that's needed. 00:43:47.660 --> 00:43:52.100 We, we have a lot of spiritual warfare going on a lot of dark. 00:43:52.520 --> 00:44:03.100 Um, and so, yeah, we need prayers and life and acknowledging, cause that's another thing that I've experienced. 00:44:03.120 --> 00:44:07.920 With physical churches is that they will not acknowledge your pain. 00:44:08.700 --> 00:44:11.900 They will minimize it. 00:44:12.500 --> 00:44:14.920 And so what we try to do is acknowledge. 00:44:15.340 --> 00:44:16.620 Yes, this is an issue. 00:44:17.100 --> 00:44:18.080 Yes, this hurts. 00:44:19.460 --> 00:44:21.260 And here's what you've been taught. 00:44:21.860 --> 00:44:22.720 Here's the truth. 00:44:23.640 --> 00:44:27.320 Um, the, Alina, did you want to go? 00:44:28.440 --> 00:44:32.520 Oh, I just, um, so like you said, there's a lot of dark. 00:44:33.100 --> 00:44:38.680 Um, there is a lot of dark, but I also believe there's a lot of dark in the physical church as well. 00:44:38.680 --> 00:44:47.940 It's just not visible because we, in the physical church, we're, we're taught to come at best space forward. 00:44:48.360 --> 00:44:53.480 Like you get the mask, you, you get in trouble. 00:44:53.600 --> 00:44:59.420 You're going to embarrass me now because we go to church and you did this and, and how, how's it going to look? 00:45:00.160 --> 00:45:02.260 Where, and here, and you're going to get kicked out. 00:45:03.380 --> 00:45:04.760 It wasn't kicked out. 00:45:04.840 --> 00:45:05.000 Yeah. 00:45:05.080 --> 00:45:05.320 Right. 00:45:05.420 --> 00:45:06.200 There's this theory. 00:45:06.420 --> 00:45:14.260 Then it's a family member does something, you know, um, in, in, so here it's, it's, it's opposite. 00:45:14.260 --> 00:45:23.760 Like we try our best to draw that out of people instead of trying to hide it. 00:45:23.900 --> 00:45:28.580 We try and, and see it because you can't address the thing. 00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:36.200 If you're not addressing the thing, if you're hiding the thing, you're never going to get past it. 00:45:36.200 --> 00:45:44.720 And so we, throughout MMO and VR, uh, really encourage honesty. 00:45:44.780 --> 00:45:47.480 We want people to come as they are. 00:45:47.480 --> 00:45:48.860 Don't hide yourself. 00:45:49.460 --> 00:45:50.840 We want to see you. 00:45:50.840 --> 00:46:03.860 We want to know you, not some, you, you think we want you to be, but you, um, and it's very exciting to be as, cause I have a very strong shepherd side. 00:46:04.400 --> 00:46:21.580 And so to what, countless times, what an honor people have opened up to me in ways that they don't open up with their own family or their close relationships. 00:46:22.220 --> 00:46:29.960 Um, I, I still have someone, uh, Melody who I met six years ago. 00:46:30.440 --> 00:46:32.540 Um, she had broken her leg. 00:46:33.060 --> 00:46:36.140 Um, she had posted in discord asking for prayer. 00:46:36.700 --> 00:46:39.840 And so of course I w I was praying for her. 00:46:39.840 --> 00:46:43.320 I reached out to her, try, you know, to help them whatever way I can. 00:46:43.780 --> 00:46:52.240 Um, she was, uh, dealing with a, an earlier trauma who left her unable to speak. 00:46:52.740 --> 00:46:55.980 Like, like she just totally shut down, closed off. 00:46:56.160 --> 00:46:58.920 Um, and, and, and didn't speak, not even with her family. 00:46:58.920 --> 00:47:00.840 Like did not speak for years. 00:47:01.400 --> 00:47:07.140 And, um, even though a few years ago, she kind of, uh, stopped coming to VRMMO church. 00:47:07.500 --> 00:47:13.080 Uh, not because of anything about us, but you know, life transitions and things change. 00:47:13.080 --> 00:47:19.220 And she, she, she, she, um, moved on to different things, but she and I never lost contact. 00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:25.940 And she, she, about a year ago wanted to meet me in VR and I'm like, absolutely. 00:47:25.940 --> 00:47:26.640 Let's go do this. 00:47:26.640 --> 00:47:32.460 And when we spawned in, she just started talking to me and I had never heard her voice. 00:47:32.680 --> 00:47:41.580 Um, and she shared with me that I am the second person that she's feels comfortable enough. 00:47:41.580 --> 00:47:44.940 Cause there's still, it wasn't just from nothing to talking to everyone. 00:47:45.180 --> 00:47:50.940 There was a, a trust barrier and the fact that she. 00:47:53.820 --> 00:47:59.180 Was comfortable speaking to me is such an incredible honor. 00:47:59.540 --> 00:48:07.320 And so when we get the opportunity, I'm sorry, it's reminding me of a church adventure, Alexa, this miss. 00:48:08.220 --> 00:48:09.040 I'm sorry. 00:48:09.960 --> 00:48:13.820 Um, so, uh, just like incredible. 00:48:13.820 --> 00:48:15.300 I cannot begin to describe it. 00:48:15.300 --> 00:48:17.040 Just wow. 00:48:17.560 --> 00:48:21.960 That we have the opportunity to, to serve people in this way. 00:48:22.060 --> 00:48:22.360 Yeah. 00:48:23.600 --> 00:48:24.340 It's pretty special. 00:48:24.980 --> 00:48:31.080 It's, it's, it's ironic that you, you deal with people at ava with an avatar form. 00:48:31.080 --> 00:48:31.360 Right. 00:48:31.780 --> 00:48:37.900 And, um, you know, the avatar form is, is when people are the most real and, and, and the 00:48:37.900 --> 00:48:43.380 people that, you know, are walking around in normal clothes and physical space, you know, 00:48:43.380 --> 00:48:44.660 you, you said the word masks. 00:48:44.660 --> 00:48:49.420 I think pastor Coco said it initially, but you're there, they're, they're guilty or they can be 00:48:49.420 --> 00:48:55.900 guilty of, of, of hiding behind masks and, and putting up fronts, um, and, and presenting, 00:48:55.900 --> 00:49:01.700 you know, the, the Instagram lifestyle that is not as perfect as, as it is once you drill 00:49:01.700 --> 00:49:04.020 in and not that it needs to be perfect. 00:49:04.020 --> 00:49:09.260 We're, we're, we're not, we're not judging them for having issues as much as questioning why 00:49:09.260 --> 00:49:15.400 they feel like they have to put up those fronts and, and to, to put up those, those walls to 00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:16.080 prevent it. 00:49:16.500 --> 00:49:23.680 And, uh, I, I just, I love the, I love the opportunity that, that you all have to, to shine 00:49:23.680 --> 00:49:25.140 the light in the darkness. 00:49:25.720 --> 00:49:29.560 You know, we, I, I talk about this and this is one of the things with the church digital 00:49:29.560 --> 00:49:33.540 we're going to be digging in a lot to over the course of the year. 00:49:33.540 --> 00:49:42.060 Like, and, and you all with your unique environments of, uh, final fantasy and VR, like you're, you're 00:49:42.060 --> 00:49:48.080 exemplifying this, we are doing ministry in digital, uh, in virtual reality, we are doing 00:49:48.080 --> 00:49:51.300 in video games, we're doing ministry in addictive spaces. 00:49:51.720 --> 00:49:54.320 People can get addicted to virtual reality. 00:49:54.460 --> 00:49:57.820 People can get addicted to the, to the lifestyle of the games that we're in. 00:49:57.820 --> 00:50:03.640 We're recruiting volunteers that are doing ministry, that will do ministry inside these 00:50:03.640 --> 00:50:04.540 addictive spaces. 00:50:05.200 --> 00:50:12.040 And number three, um, we are serving people that are addicted to the spaces they're in. 00:50:12.060 --> 00:50:21.460 Or are very quick to highlight other addictive behaviors and, and, and suicide and depression. 00:50:22.280 --> 00:50:28.720 Like, it's very easy for people to express these extreme level situations. 00:50:29.120 --> 00:50:31.040 I don't know that it's a higher percentage. 00:50:31.180 --> 00:50:35.040 I used to think it was a higher percentage than, in, in digital and virtual. 00:50:35.340 --> 00:50:36.660 I, I don't believe that anymore. 00:50:36.920 --> 00:50:41.080 I just think people are more forthcoming in, in some of these environments. 00:50:41.080 --> 00:50:46.880 It's, it's easier for, for people to really express what's, what's in their heart as opposed 00:50:46.880 --> 00:50:48.680 to hiding behind those masks. 00:50:49.000 --> 00:50:56.600 And, and, you know, trying to help you as, both of you as, as pastors manage these situations. 00:50:56.600 --> 00:51:01.500 But, you know, one of the things that, that I really respect about you two in conversations 00:51:01.500 --> 00:51:07.680 has been, hey, I can't, I can't, I can't manage this all entirely on myself. 00:51:08.060 --> 00:51:13.440 Like, we need to figure out how to reproduce and replicate the, the pastor mindset. 00:51:13.440 --> 00:51:18.600 Especially now as you're talking about planting new churches and new ministries and multiplying 00:51:18.600 --> 00:51:19.300 out. 00:51:19.500 --> 00:51:25.980 Like, it's, it's, it's important for us to, to recognize, hey, we need to start to equip 00:51:25.980 --> 00:51:32.600 others on, on how to handle these really difficult situations. 00:51:32.600 --> 00:51:37.940 I, I would love to, maybe just some of the challenges or opportunities. 00:51:38.440 --> 00:51:42.280 I know you're, you're literally smack in the middle of this, and I don't want to put you 00:51:42.280 --> 00:51:48.860 on the spot, but as, as you've been looking at, at challenging people to, to step up pastor, 00:51:48.980 --> 00:51:56.880 pastorally, embracing a shepherd heart, like what, what are some opportunities or challenges 00:51:56.880 --> 00:52:02.340 that, that you are, you two are feeling about recruiting and maybe starting to develop some 00:52:02.340 --> 00:52:02.960 of these people? 00:52:02.960 --> 00:52:05.120 Are you okay addressing that? 00:52:07.140 --> 00:52:08.900 Alina, do you maybe want to start that off? 00:52:09.800 --> 00:52:10.800 Sure. 00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:21.860 Um, so I think challenge number one is, um, it's funny because people seem to be so much 00:52:21.860 --> 00:52:26.600 more open and willing in a virtual or digital space. 00:52:26.600 --> 00:52:37.480 Um, but that still doesn't, um, the unease or lack of confidence and self, uh, is still very 00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:38.480 much there. 00:52:38.480 --> 00:52:48.740 And so I think that one of the biggest challenges is that people, even though we, we, we try and 00:52:48.740 --> 00:52:55.660 cultivate this, um, we're in this together thing, like all of us playing, you know, one 00:52:55.660 --> 00:53:01.280 part of the, the, the one body, um, each their own part of this one body and it's collective. 00:53:01.280 --> 00:53:04.280 Um, the ministry should be done together. 00:53:04.280 --> 00:53:15.280 Um, still people tend to not value themselves, not, they just, they don't have the self confidence 00:53:15.280 --> 00:53:19.280 to realize that they can do these things too. 00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:20.280 Mm-hmm. 00:53:20.280 --> 00:53:26.280 And so sometimes that's a long journey, like a long journey just to get them from, from, 00:53:26.280 --> 00:53:38.280 you know, coming into the doors to being confident enough to pursue, uh, these type roles in the 00:53:38.280 --> 00:53:39.280 church. 00:53:39.280 --> 00:53:40.280 Yeah. 00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:44.280 And I think that's the, the, the, the biggest hurdle to be honest and time, uh, it takes 00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:46.280 a lot of time, uh, to lead the church. 00:53:46.280 --> 00:53:47.280 Mm-hmm. 00:53:47.280 --> 00:53:48.280 Uh, and, uh, it's difficult. 00:53:48.280 --> 00:53:50.280 People have families and they have to make a living. 00:53:50.280 --> 00:53:52.280 Uh, we don't have the financial support to pay our pastors, um, you know, living wages 00:53:52.280 --> 00:53:53.280 at this moment. 00:53:53.280 --> 00:54:07.280 And that, those two things are our biggest challenge. 00:54:07.280 --> 00:54:08.280 I think. 00:54:08.280 --> 00:54:09.280 Yeah. 00:54:09.280 --> 00:54:12.280 Um, Alina has the pastoral gift. 00:54:12.280 --> 00:54:13.280 She's a shepherd. 00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:14.280 She's a shepherd. 00:54:14.280 --> 00:54:16.280 I'm not, I'm an apostle. 00:54:16.280 --> 00:54:21.280 I want to forge ahead and I don't care if you come with me or not. 00:54:21.280 --> 00:54:22.280 I'm going. 00:54:22.280 --> 00:54:24.280 So that's my problem. 00:54:24.280 --> 00:54:32.280 That's, um, Pastor Coco, you, yeah, I, I echo that 100%, but no, keep going, please. 00:54:32.280 --> 00:54:35.280 Um, so I'm learning. 00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:43.280 Um, how do I, um, cause that is part of the apostle gift is to teach others how to do this. 00:54:43.280 --> 00:54:49.280 Um, the biggest challenges that I'm seeing is we've got a lot of people like Alina said, 00:54:49.280 --> 00:54:55.280 who don't realize the gifting and the calling on their life and that they can actually make 00:54:55.280 --> 00:54:56.280 a difference. 00:54:56.280 --> 00:55:00.280 I was there once I was, it's like when you were having that women's discussion the other 00:55:00.280 --> 00:55:03.280 day, it's like, I was told I couldn't. 00:55:03.280 --> 00:55:09.280 So we have to undo those teachings, those false teachings that you don't matter, that it's 00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:10.280 only the pastors that can do this. 00:55:10.280 --> 00:55:11.280 No, it's everybody. 00:55:11.280 --> 00:55:18.280 We have to retreat, retrain people into seeing that we're all in this together. 00:55:18.280 --> 00:55:19.280 It's not just pastors. 00:55:19.280 --> 00:55:22.280 It's not just specific people that were called. 00:55:22.280 --> 00:55:29.280 Um, and so I've been working on that on my side, uh, on the final fantasy side, cause we 00:55:29.280 --> 00:55:33.280 do our teachings differently in, uh, the platforms. 00:55:33.280 --> 00:55:34.280 Sure. 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:35.280 And yeah. 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:36.280 So it's, it's, it's interesting. 00:55:36.280 --> 00:55:39.280 I want to come back to the, to the women thing. 00:55:39.280 --> 00:55:44.280 Tonic says here, uh, what I like most about this group is that they've been supportive of 00:55:44.280 --> 00:55:48.280 me and my fresh start with God ever since first joining them. 00:55:48.280 --> 00:55:54.280 They've given me all the resources to keep me on, on his path. 00:55:54.280 --> 00:55:57.280 Um, what a, what, what, what a powerful testimony. 00:55:57.280 --> 00:55:59.280 How long, like, what can you tell me? 00:55:59.280 --> 00:56:02.280 Just quick snapshot of, of Tonic story here. 00:56:02.280 --> 00:56:04.280 How long has he, he or she been connected with you? 00:56:06.280 --> 00:56:07.280 When did you join Tonic? 00:56:07.280 --> 00:56:08.280 It's been at least nine months. 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:10.280 Um, it's been a while. 00:56:11.280 --> 00:56:12.280 Um, yeah. 00:56:12.280 --> 00:56:16.280 It's just fresh start and you can find his testimony. 00:56:16.280 --> 00:56:17.280 Um, yeah. 00:56:17.280 --> 00:56:22.280 On our YouTube, but I don't want to put his words in his mouth. 00:56:22.280 --> 00:56:23.280 I love that. 00:56:23.280 --> 00:56:28.280 Um, bunny out the community helped me, uh, to reinvigorate my walk with God. 00:56:28.280 --> 00:56:34.280 Pastor Coco and, and the new found friends I met in the final fantasy 14 side, uh, encouraged 00:56:34.280 --> 00:56:38.280 me to take better steps towards healing. 00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:39.280 Um, yeah. 00:56:39.280 --> 00:56:40.280 Yeah. 00:56:40.280 --> 00:56:44.280 And I've, I've seen significant growth in both of them and, and in all of the people 00:56:44.280 --> 00:56:50.280 that, um, are getting engaged, are seeing it. 00:56:50.280 --> 00:56:55.280 Engaging God, engaging the word, not engaged as in getting married. 00:56:55.280 --> 00:56:56.280 In community. 00:56:56.280 --> 00:56:57.280 Yeah. 00:56:57.280 --> 00:56:58.280 In community. 00:56:58.280 --> 00:56:59.280 Okay. 00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:02.280 And in the like services and yeah. 00:57:02.280 --> 00:57:03.280 Tonic says about nine months. 00:57:03.280 --> 00:57:04.280 Tonic says about nine months. 00:57:04.280 --> 00:57:06.280 So, so, so that's good. 00:57:06.280 --> 00:57:07.280 Um, yeah. 00:57:07.280 --> 00:57:08.280 I mean, we, we talk about this all the time. 00:57:08.280 --> 00:57:12.280 Doing something different bunny bunny's been about a year. 00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:18.280 So I love this doing something different allows us to reach someone different. 00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:20.280 And, and I'm going to tonic bunny. 00:57:20.280 --> 00:57:22.280 Like I'm going to right now, I'm talking to you. 00:57:22.280 --> 00:57:23.280 Yes or no. 00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:27.280 Um, would you be involved at a physical church? 00:57:27.280 --> 00:57:31.280 If you do not get involved in, in VR MMO, I don't want to put words in your mouth. 00:57:31.280 --> 00:57:32.280 Go ahead and type it in chat. 00:57:32.280 --> 00:57:36.280 If you're available, would you be involved at a physical church? 00:57:36.280 --> 00:57:37.280 Yes or no. 00:57:37.280 --> 00:57:39.280 Um, and I'll put it on the screen when I see it come up. 00:57:39.280 --> 00:57:40.280 I see it come up. 00:57:40.280 --> 00:57:48.280 But time and time again, we see that people who, um, by doing something different, like church 00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:50.280 in a video game, like church in virtual reality. 00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:51.280 Yeah. 00:57:51.280 --> 00:57:52.280 That is a radical concept. 00:57:52.280 --> 00:57:56.280 That makes no sense to the average physical church attender. 00:57:56.280 --> 00:58:01.280 Well, here in America, one out of four are still, uh, attending a physical church. 00:58:01.280 --> 00:58:02.280 That number is decreasing. 00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:09.280 And so to do something, to reach different people, to reach people that are not coming 00:58:09.280 --> 00:58:13.280 to the buildings, we have to do something different. 00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:19.280 And these two ladies are doing a phenomenal job in their, in their context of, of reaching, 00:58:19.280 --> 00:58:26.280 engaging, evangelizing, shepherding, and discipling people, um, in, in these platforms. 00:58:26.280 --> 00:58:32.280 Now, one of the things that I, it was interesting, I did not, and I publicly say this, I didn't 00:58:32.280 --> 00:58:37.280 realize, uh, until, um, uh, this, it's interesting. 00:58:37.280 --> 00:58:43.280 But Burn, uh, Bunny says here, uh, she would have attended a physical church, but online just 00:58:43.280 --> 00:58:44.280 works better for me. 00:58:44.280 --> 00:58:45.280 And that's great. 00:58:45.280 --> 00:58:50.280 I mean, whether it works better or whether it was in isolation, what's important for me 00:58:50.280 --> 00:58:55.280 is you are in the word, you're connected with somebody who's pastorally shepherding and 00:58:55.280 --> 00:59:01.280 caring and discipling and, and challenging you, which, which I know is, is happening here on 00:59:01.280 --> 00:59:02.280 these two. 00:59:02.280 --> 00:59:10.280 But I did not intentionally, you know, we did the women's thing last week and had four women. 00:59:10.280 --> 00:59:16.280 I did not intentionally the next week book two more ladies, uh, to come on and do this. 00:59:16.280 --> 00:59:18.280 It just organically happened. 00:59:18.280 --> 00:59:23.280 It didn't even occur to me to this morning when I realized, oh, I got a stream this afternoon. 00:59:23.280 --> 00:59:25.280 Oh, I've got these two ladies. 00:59:25.280 --> 00:59:27.280 Oh, I've got to come up with questions. 00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:30.280 Do I ask the question about women's in ministry? 00:59:30.280 --> 00:59:33.280 And I was like, but I really, we kind of hashed that last time. 00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:38.280 And, and, and it was, it was like, I, um, I'm going to just, I'll be blunt. 00:59:38.280 --> 00:59:43.280 I remember one of the conversations that somebody said last week was Jeff. 00:59:43.280 --> 00:59:48.280 I longed to be on the show interviewed, not about women's ministry, about what I'm actually 00:59:48.280 --> 00:59:49.280 doing in ministry. 00:59:49.280 --> 00:59:52.280 And so like, I didn't want to like say anything. 00:59:52.280 --> 00:59:54.280 Cause I'm like, I don't want to be that guy. 00:59:54.280 --> 00:59:55.280 She's not wrong. 00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:56.280 We need to do that. 00:59:56.280 --> 01:00:04.280 But since pastor Coco brought it up and, you know, made it public, um, do you, what tension 01:00:04.280 --> 01:00:11.280 do you all feel in the metaverse centered around you being women pastors? 01:00:11.280 --> 01:00:19.280 You know, last week we had, um, uh, pastor Susie's wife, uh, Amanda on Amanda Souza, you 01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:23.280 know, and she's talking about as a streamer, she felt a lot of that tension. 01:00:23.280 --> 01:00:28.280 You know, uh, you, uh, you talked about Coco, pastor Coco, how, you know, you were trained 01:00:28.280 --> 01:00:33.280 that it wasn't that and you're kind of reprogramming and relearning, unlearning and relearning 01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:39.280 some things in your role, which echoed a lot of the things that were, um, last time. 01:00:39.280 --> 01:00:45.280 Do, do you feel that from the average attender in virtual reality? 01:00:45.280 --> 01:00:51.280 Do you get trolled by people in virtual reality that are slamming like Bible verses out of 01:00:51.280 --> 01:00:54.280 context in final fantasy or in VR? 01:00:54.280 --> 01:01:01.280 Like what, what is the perception of the average person in, in, in your unique, uh, environments 01:01:01.280 --> 01:01:04.280 towards, towards you being women pastors? 01:01:04.280 --> 01:01:05.280 Um, who wants to go first? 01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:06.280 Yeah. 01:01:06.280 --> 01:01:07.280 I saw that. 01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:08.280 She's like, yeah. 01:01:08.280 --> 01:01:09.280 She's like, yeah. 01:01:09.280 --> 01:01:10.280 Go, go for it. 01:01:10.280 --> 01:01:11.280 Alina. 01:01:11.280 --> 01:01:14.280 Um, so average person. 01:01:14.280 --> 01:01:16.280 It is not a problem. 01:01:16.280 --> 01:01:17.280 Average person. 01:01:17.280 --> 01:01:27.280 People don't even consider it as it doesn't cross their mind, but we absolutely get trolls. 01:01:27.280 --> 01:01:34.280 People who find out that we are teaching and we are female, um, who come specifically just 01:01:34.280 --> 01:01:37.280 to try and disrupt it. 01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:42.280 Um, probably the most significant one in this, in this happened, it was a group of people, 01:01:42.280 --> 01:01:45.280 um, who came, it was like their mission. 01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:50.280 They would come week after week after week to cause problems. 01:01:50.280 --> 01:01:56.280 And they would have this recording that was just playing on a loop that would, uh, they 01:01:56.280 --> 01:02:01.280 came into the space and it would say, you are a Jezebel. 01:02:01.280 --> 01:02:04.280 Women are not allowed to preach. 01:02:04.280 --> 01:02:07.280 And it just was on this loop. 01:02:07.280 --> 01:02:13.280 And so, you know, we, we ended up needing to kick them from the space and then they would 01:02:13.280 --> 01:02:17.280 come back and this would happen over and over and kick them from the space. 01:02:17.280 --> 01:02:18.280 Uh, I don't know. 01:02:18.280 --> 01:02:19.280 They gave up eventually. 01:02:19.280 --> 01:02:21.280 I haven't seen them in a long time. 01:02:21.280 --> 01:02:23.280 I think it's, it's a seasonal missional trip. 01:02:23.280 --> 01:02:25.280 So just wait till spring break. 01:02:25.280 --> 01:02:26.280 Seasonal missional. 01:02:26.280 --> 01:02:27.280 Yeah. 01:02:27.280 --> 01:02:28.280 So usually. 01:02:28.280 --> 01:02:30.280 That's funny. 01:02:30.280 --> 01:02:31.280 Go ahead, go, go. 01:02:31.280 --> 01:02:32.280 Or go ahead. 01:02:32.280 --> 01:02:33.280 I don't know what it is. 01:02:33.280 --> 01:02:34.280 Oh, yes. 01:02:34.280 --> 01:02:36.280 So normally it's like a one person. 01:02:36.280 --> 01:02:42.280 Normally it's not this, a group format that, um, in this case, normally it's one person. 01:02:42.280 --> 01:02:48.280 Um, they, in my experience, they often wait till after service and then come. 01:02:48.280 --> 01:02:51.280 And I just have a question for you. 01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:56.280 And that question is, do you know, you're not supposed to be teaching? 01:02:56.280 --> 01:03:01.280 Um, and so the, you know, we'll have a quick discussion. 01:03:01.280 --> 01:03:07.280 They usually leave and don't come back because, you know, it's, they aren't going to convince 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:10.280 me that I shouldn't be sharing Christ with the world. 01:03:10.280 --> 01:03:12.280 But, but they try. 01:03:12.280 --> 01:03:17.280 Um, but the people who come usually don't even think one way or another about it. 01:03:17.280 --> 01:03:25.280 It's only the trolls who, um, and again, occasionally there'll be just people who don't know what 01:03:25.280 --> 01:03:26.280 to expect. 01:03:26.280 --> 01:03:27.280 They come in, you're female. 01:03:27.280 --> 01:03:28.280 They ask you a question. 01:03:28.280 --> 01:03:30.280 You know, they ask you after. 01:03:30.280 --> 01:03:36.280 And when you guys agree to disagree, they, they go elsewhere to find another place where 01:03:36.280 --> 01:03:37.280 a male will. 01:03:37.280 --> 01:03:38.280 Yeah. 01:03:38.280 --> 01:03:42.280 Again, we're getting a different group of people. 01:03:42.280 --> 01:03:48.280 Cause we get the ones that aren't accepted at church and that didn't grow up in church. 01:03:48.280 --> 01:03:51.280 And so they didn't get taught that. 01:03:51.280 --> 01:03:57.280 Um, so, and then on the final fantasy side, I had to turn off my DMS. 01:03:57.280 --> 01:04:00.280 Um, you can't DM me unless you're my friend. 01:04:00.280 --> 01:04:05.280 Um, and cause I would get people DMing me saying, really? 01:04:05.280 --> 01:04:06.280 You're not. 01:04:06.280 --> 01:04:07.280 Wow. 01:04:07.280 --> 01:04:09.280 That, uh, they don't believe. 01:04:09.280 --> 01:04:10.280 Yeah. 01:04:10.280 --> 01:04:15.280 And it's really frustrating because they would in the same paragraph say, I don't believe 01:04:15.280 --> 01:04:17.280 in women pastors. 01:04:17.280 --> 01:04:22.280 Are you married? 01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:23.280 Such and such age. 01:04:23.280 --> 01:04:25.280 And I'm not married. 01:04:25.280 --> 01:04:26.280 It's like. 01:04:26.280 --> 01:04:32.280 I, theologically don't agree with anything you're doing, but are you single? 01:04:32.280 --> 01:04:34.280 Who are you seeing right now? 01:04:34.280 --> 01:04:35.280 Okay. 01:04:35.280 --> 01:04:36.280 Yes. 01:04:36.280 --> 01:04:37.280 Pastor D. 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:39.280 My DMs are turned off. 01:04:39.280 --> 01:04:40.280 Don't take it personally. 01:04:40.280 --> 01:04:41.280 Oh my. 01:04:41.280 --> 01:04:42.280 If you can't get through to me. 01:04:42.280 --> 01:04:43.280 Honestly. 01:04:43.280 --> 01:04:44.280 That's, that's funny. 01:04:44.280 --> 01:04:45.280 Pastor D. 01:04:45.280 --> 01:04:47.280 We're going to have a conversation on this soon. 01:04:47.280 --> 01:04:48.280 We'll bring you on the show. 01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:50.280 Um, yeah, it is. 01:04:50.280 --> 01:04:51.280 Um, I, I do. 01:04:51.280 --> 01:04:55.280 You know, I, my heart goes out. 01:04:55.280 --> 01:04:57.280 I, I don't, I don't know. 01:04:57.280 --> 01:05:01.280 I, I, I literally, I had a conversation today with some of, some of the team. 01:05:01.280 --> 01:05:05.280 Like, how do we, how do we handle this? 01:05:05.280 --> 01:05:08.280 How do we address the women in, in ministry? 01:05:08.280 --> 01:05:12.280 Like, how do we, how can we support more than we already are? 01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:18.280 And, you know, how do we, how do we strengthen this and, and, and shield and protect or, or fight? 01:05:18.280 --> 01:05:20.280 Like what, what's, what's the stance? 01:05:20.280 --> 01:05:24.280 And so this is what, what these two women are doing are, are, are phenomenal. 01:05:24.280 --> 01:05:26.280 And, you know, it's, it's interesting. 01:05:26.280 --> 01:05:32.280 Some of, I, I, I made a conversation in, in talking about like, sorry, let me back up. 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:37.280 I made this observation today that the, the women that I have in leadership of the church 01:05:37.280 --> 01:05:41.280 digital are the ones that bust my butt the most. 01:05:41.280 --> 01:05:44.280 Like, they're the ones that call my crap that tell me. 01:05:44.280 --> 01:05:50.280 And literally I was in a conversation with Stacy and I, and I, and I made some comment just off the cuff. 01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:53.280 Not just, you know, something I would say all the time. 01:05:53.280 --> 01:05:55.280 And I've said 20 times this year. 01:05:55.280 --> 01:06:00.280 And, and Stacy's like, okay, Jeff, can I, can I say something in response? 01:06:00.280 --> 01:06:01.280 And I was like, yeah. 01:06:01.280 --> 01:06:04.280 She says, do you realize how racist that comment was? 01:06:04.280 --> 01:06:07.280 And I was like, actually, no, I don't. 01:06:07.280 --> 01:06:08.280 Can you educate me? 01:06:08.280 --> 01:06:11.280 And she explained to me what that, what her vantage point was. 01:06:11.280 --> 01:06:13.280 And I was like, oh crap. 01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:15.280 That was not what I meant at all. 01:06:15.280 --> 01:06:20.280 I made that comment because of something 30 years ago in a book that I read and it like 01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:21.280 had nothing to do. 01:06:21.280 --> 01:06:23.280 And she's like, was that book written by a white man? 01:06:23.280 --> 01:06:25.280 And I said, actually, yes, it was. 01:06:25.280 --> 01:06:31.280 And it's been quoted by hundreds of other white men, business leaders over the years. 01:06:31.280 --> 01:06:36.280 And so, you know, we are ingrained, we're brought up, we're trained in this. 01:06:36.280 --> 01:06:42.280 And, and new times doing something different is, um, is, is necessary. 01:06:42.280 --> 01:06:48.280 You know, uh, doctor or pastor D here is talking about recognizing the apostolic gift, wherever 01:06:48.280 --> 01:06:50.280 it is in, in, in men and women. 01:06:50.280 --> 01:06:53.280 I want to share some love here as, as we're wrapping up. 01:06:53.280 --> 01:06:54.280 Oh, Oasis Church VR. 01:06:54.280 --> 01:06:56.280 So I'm assuming this is a VR tiger. 01:06:56.280 --> 01:07:02.280 Uh, Alina was the Jedi world builder in, uh, all space VR who showed me the ropes when 01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:04.280 I first got started. 01:07:04.280 --> 01:07:07.280 And, and so, um, that's awesome, man. 01:07:07.280 --> 01:07:09.280 You, you really sparked something in him. 01:07:09.280 --> 01:07:13.280 He actually, uh, VR tiger built the, uh, the world. 01:07:13.280 --> 01:07:18.280 I just saw it today for the first time, built the world that we're doing the, uh, metaverse 01:07:18.280 --> 01:07:21.280 or the, uh, yeah, the metaverse conference, the digital missionary conference. 01:07:21.280 --> 01:07:24.280 He built the world that we're going to be doing the conference. 01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:25.280 And so excited about that. 01:07:25.280 --> 01:07:32.280 Uh, David says, I'm an evangelist, um, not being, uh, attending, not attending to a real 01:07:32.280 --> 01:07:33.280 church. 01:07:33.280 --> 01:07:36.280 And I'd love to go to VR church no matter who's preaching. 01:07:36.280 --> 01:07:40.280 And so, uh, yeah, there's, I know there's a rotation that, that comes around. 01:07:40.280 --> 01:07:44.280 Uh, there was a, let me get tonic actually added a response back here. 01:07:44.280 --> 01:07:51.280 Uh, and so the question I asked tonic directly was, um, if you were not at VR memo, would you 01:07:51.280 --> 01:07:54.280 be attending a physical church? 01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:56.280 No, it was his response. 01:07:56.280 --> 01:07:57.280 Not a year ago. 01:07:57.280 --> 01:08:01.280 God reached me where I was online through VR memo church. 01:08:01.280 --> 01:08:08.280 Now that I've grown a little, I'm only now able to start looking for a physical church. 01:08:08.280 --> 01:08:10.280 We'll see what God has in store. 01:08:10.280 --> 01:08:12.280 And that's a great answer. 01:08:12.280 --> 01:08:19.280 There's, you know, and there's a reason we do Saturdays, not Sundays to free up people 01:08:19.280 --> 01:08:20.280 to have the ability. 01:08:20.280 --> 01:08:21.280 Okay. 01:08:21.280 --> 01:08:22.280 Yeah. 01:08:22.280 --> 01:08:30.280 Do you, is there a, you know, do you have a, a trend or one off where people will connect? 01:08:30.280 --> 01:08:34.280 Are you, are you helping give people courage to engage on Sunday? 01:08:34.280 --> 01:08:36.280 Like, are you seeing that happen, uh, through it? 01:08:36.280 --> 01:08:38.280 Or is that something you're striving to do? 01:08:38.280 --> 01:08:40.280 Uh, pastor Coco. 01:08:40.280 --> 01:08:42.280 It's not my main goal. 01:08:42.280 --> 01:08:48.280 My main goal is to disciple people and get them closer to Jesus and to step into their callings 01:08:48.280 --> 01:08:52.280 and whatever the Holy Spirit leads them to do is what I want them to do. 01:08:52.280 --> 01:08:53.280 Yeah. 01:08:53.280 --> 01:08:56.280 And I don't care whether they go physical or digital. 01:08:56.280 --> 01:09:02.280 It's, uh, it's the Holy Spirit's, uh, job to convict. 01:09:02.280 --> 01:09:04.280 It's God's job to judge. 01:09:04.280 --> 01:09:05.280 Yeah. 01:09:05.280 --> 01:09:06.280 Your job to love. 01:09:06.280 --> 01:09:07.280 And so. 01:09:07.280 --> 01:09:09.280 And it's their job to go wherever he sends them. 01:09:09.280 --> 01:09:12.280 And if he sends them digital, then go digital. 01:09:12.280 --> 01:09:17.280 Um, there's a lot of people who can't find a safe church in their local community. 01:09:17.280 --> 01:09:19.280 So I love this. 01:09:19.280 --> 01:09:20.280 Yeah. 01:09:20.280 --> 01:09:22.280 This has been, um, go ahead. 01:09:22.280 --> 01:09:23.280 Go ahead. 01:09:23.280 --> 01:09:24.280 Go, go, go. 01:09:24.280 --> 01:09:30.280 Oh, I was just going to mention Zeke who came and served alongside us for years. 01:09:30.280 --> 01:09:38.280 Um, and he's recently, uh, stepped away to go to a physical church, which we were so excited 01:09:38.280 --> 01:09:46.280 that he finally found because over the years he's wanted to go, but he couldn't find one that. 01:09:46.280 --> 01:09:48.280 That's was right for him. 01:09:48.280 --> 01:09:55.280 And five years later, he found this particular church that really serves him well. 01:09:55.280 --> 01:09:58.280 Um, and I'm just so excited. 01:09:58.280 --> 01:10:00.280 That meant that he stepped back from volunteering. 01:10:00.280 --> 01:10:03.280 Um, I still see him from time to time. 01:10:03.280 --> 01:10:08.280 Uh, but I'm just as excited if I lead you to a place where you're supposed to be, or if 01:10:08.280 --> 01:10:15.280 this is where you're supposed to be, or what, as long as you are going where God is leading 01:10:15.280 --> 01:10:20.280 you, that excites me, even if it is away from us. 01:10:20.280 --> 01:10:21.280 Absolutely. 01:10:21.280 --> 01:10:22.280 Yeah. 01:10:22.280 --> 01:10:23.280 Yeah. 01:10:23.280 --> 01:10:26.280 It's sad, but still I'm happy and excited. 01:10:26.280 --> 01:10:27.280 Well said. 01:10:27.280 --> 01:10:32.280 And, you know, and if God uses you to, to help people reconnect with, with a physical ministry, 01:10:32.280 --> 01:10:34.280 I mean, that's a, that's a kingdom win. 01:10:34.280 --> 01:10:40.280 If God uses you to, to help plant another church in virtual reality or, or MMO, or, 01:10:40.280 --> 01:10:41.280 I mean, that's, that's a win. 01:10:41.280 --> 01:10:48.280 Um, if, if God helps, you know, you restore marriages, that's a win, you know, and, and, 01:10:48.280 --> 01:10:51.280 uh, your friend Axel is agreeing here. 01:10:51.280 --> 01:10:55.280 I said, uh, pastor D are you interested in plant planting across different platforms? 01:10:55.280 --> 01:10:56.280 Yeah. 01:10:56.280 --> 01:10:57.280 We, we had talked about that. 01:10:57.280 --> 01:11:02.280 Um, I mean, you got a couple of apostolic women here that are, that are ready to go. 01:11:02.280 --> 01:11:07.280 The, the biggest issue is, is really helping or finding leaders to kind of come alongside. 01:11:07.280 --> 01:11:08.280 I'm not putting words in your mouth. 01:11:08.280 --> 01:11:10.280 That, that was kind of the, the, the challenge. 01:11:10.280 --> 01:11:11.280 Yeah. 01:11:11.280 --> 01:11:12.280 Yeah. 01:11:12.280 --> 01:11:13.280 Yeah. 01:11:13.280 --> 01:11:16.280 Uh, he enables, uh, also from VR MMO. 01:11:16.280 --> 01:11:17.280 Uh, no, I'm sorry. 01:11:17.280 --> 01:11:18.280 From Oasis. 01:11:18.280 --> 01:11:19.280 Come again, man. 01:11:19.280 --> 01:11:23.280 We're, we're getting the VR crowd, uh, coming on, coming on for, for this, this stream. 01:11:23.280 --> 01:11:26.280 Go where God is, is leading you. 01:11:26.280 --> 01:11:27.280 Rexy. 01:11:27.280 --> 01:11:28.280 Rexy's with you. 01:11:28.280 --> 01:11:29.280 And she's even asking. 01:11:29.280 --> 01:11:31.280 I'm, I'm assuming she with the, the purple cat. 01:11:31.280 --> 01:11:32.280 Sorry. 01:11:32.280 --> 01:11:37.280 But, uh, why not, uh, X expand to world of Warcraft? 01:11:37.280 --> 01:11:39.280 Uh, are you volunteering Rexy? 01:11:39.280 --> 01:11:46.280 Ah, I'm, I'm, I'm just saying, um, I'd be, I'd be interested. 01:11:46.280 --> 01:11:47.280 That's the issue. 01:11:47.280 --> 01:11:49.280 I actually, it's a fun story. 01:11:49.280 --> 01:11:55.280 I was, I was on a plane flight a while back and, um, ended up striking up a conversation 01:11:55.280 --> 01:11:59.280 with a couple of the women who were sitting next to me and there were devs for Blizzard. 01:11:59.280 --> 01:12:01.280 Blizzard is world of Warcraft, right? 01:12:01.280 --> 01:12:02.280 Am I getting the company right? 01:12:02.280 --> 01:12:03.280 I think so. 01:12:03.280 --> 01:12:04.280 Yeah. 01:12:04.280 --> 01:12:06.280 And so, uh, actually, hey, Rexy's owning it. 01:12:06.280 --> 01:12:07.280 Rexy says yes. 01:12:07.280 --> 01:12:08.280 Rexy says yes. 01:12:08.280 --> 01:12:09.280 Yeah. 01:12:09.280 --> 01:12:10.280 Rexy says yes. 01:12:10.280 --> 01:12:11.280 She's, she's volunteering. 01:12:11.280 --> 01:12:13.280 So follow up on that on Discord. 01:12:13.280 --> 01:12:18.280 But, um, I was having to come pretty sure Blizzard, that was whatever company did world 01:12:18.280 --> 01:12:19.280 of Warcraft. 01:12:19.280 --> 01:12:23.280 I'm pretty sure Blizzard, but they were devs for, for Blizzard and they had worked on world 01:12:23.280 --> 01:12:24.280 of Warcraft and like, what do you do? 01:12:24.280 --> 01:12:27.280 And I'm like, oh yeah, I, I, I know world of Warcraft. 01:12:27.280 --> 01:12:30.280 I am not the face of somebody who should look like world of Warcraft. 01:12:30.280 --> 01:12:32.280 And so they were like, how do you know that? 01:12:32.280 --> 01:12:36.280 And I said, oh yeah, we work with organizations that plant churches and video games and whatever. 01:12:36.280 --> 01:12:39.280 And they're like, their heads works bloating. 01:12:39.280 --> 01:12:41.280 You're doing what? 01:12:41.280 --> 01:12:42.280 In where? 01:12:42.280 --> 01:12:43.280 How does that work? 01:12:43.280 --> 01:12:46.280 And like, and they were, they were so excited. 01:12:46.280 --> 01:12:48.280 I literally, I've got their, their phone number. 01:12:48.280 --> 01:12:54.280 I gave, I gave their, um, their discord to my kids because they were the, they were like, oh, 01:12:54.280 --> 01:12:56.280 we'd love to, you know, talk to the kids about whatever. 01:12:56.280 --> 01:12:57.280 And anyway, it's fun. 01:12:57.280 --> 01:12:58.280 Thanks. 01:12:58.280 --> 01:12:59.280 All right. 01:12:59.280 --> 01:13:01.280 Hey, this has been a, been a great stream. 01:13:01.280 --> 01:13:07.280 Uh, we went a little longer than, but just love the conversation at hand and a lot of engagement 01:13:07.280 --> 01:13:11.280 and so appreciate the work that you all are doing in, in VR and MMO. 01:13:11.280 --> 01:13:14.280 It doesn't sound like the metaverse is dead. 01:13:14.280 --> 01:13:18.280 Not yet anyway, but, uh, we're, we're going to, we're going to keep plugging away and seeing 01:13:18.280 --> 01:13:21.280 what God's doing, uh, in, in the space to come. 01:13:21.280 --> 01:13:26.280 But as we're, as we're landing the plane, uh, here, uh, any, any closing thoughts? 01:13:26.280 --> 01:13:29.280 Uh, Pastor Lena, you want to go first? 01:13:29.280 --> 01:13:36.280 Oh, um, as you said, it doesn't seem like the metaverse is dead. 01:13:36.280 --> 01:13:37.280 Not yet anyway. 01:13:37.280 --> 01:13:50.280 Um, uh, it just sparked to mind, um, how my passion lies with quality and not numbers. 01:13:50.280 --> 01:14:01.280 Um, so if I can serve a few people really well leading to action and life change, um, with 01:14:01.280 --> 01:14:12.280 a few people, uh, versus just standing up there talking and, you know, with many people, um, 01:14:12.280 --> 01:14:20.280 I would choose the few people who are making real life changes, um, any day. 01:14:20.280 --> 01:14:21.280 Every day. 01:14:21.280 --> 01:14:24.280 Um, and so I'm, I'm happy. 01:14:24.280 --> 01:14:26.280 I'm happy with where we are. 01:14:26.280 --> 01:14:33.280 Like, like it would be difficult with more people, of course, getting that support of other 01:14:33.280 --> 01:14:38.280 people stepping up into leadership, then that is, you know, would be possible. 01:14:38.280 --> 01:14:46.280 But, um, as we stand today, where we are is where we're supposed to be. 01:14:46.280 --> 01:14:55.280 Like, um, I believe, you know, God is sending us some really interesting, um, uh, tests or, 01:14:55.280 --> 01:14:59.280 uh, you know, refinement period for us. 01:14:59.280 --> 01:15:06.280 Um, Coco, uh, Pastor Coco, you and I were talking about, uh, there's this sense that there are 01:15:06.280 --> 01:15:15.280 these things that we must handle well, um, to, to go on, whether that means new platforms 01:15:15.280 --> 01:15:20.280 or growth or some wonderful, uh, change in the church. 01:15:20.280 --> 01:15:27.280 Uh, but we've gotta, we've gotta handle where we are well first. 01:15:27.280 --> 01:15:34.280 Um, and so I'm just very happy with where we are is, is, uh, what I wanted to say. 01:15:34.280 --> 01:15:41.280 And it's been an amazing opportunity that I never in my wildest dreams could have ever imagined. 01:15:41.280 --> 01:15:42.280 Really. 01:15:42.280 --> 01:15:43.280 Seriously. 01:15:43.280 --> 01:15:44.280 Yeah. 01:15:44.280 --> 01:15:46.280 I love how it's, yeah. 01:15:46.280 --> 01:15:51.280 I mean, we, we kind of glossed it over, but it extended your, your ministry career. 01:15:51.280 --> 01:15:56.280 You've got the health issues, unable to, to leave the house much and, and, and leaning into 01:15:56.280 --> 01:15:57.280 virtual reality. 01:15:57.280 --> 01:16:02.280 I mean, really just opened up a, a world of ministry opportunities as a result. 01:16:02.280 --> 01:16:07.280 So love that, uh, that opportunity that, that you've had to, to reach and disciple people 01:16:07.280 --> 01:16:08.280 in the unique space. 01:16:08.280 --> 01:16:13.280 And so pastor Coco on your side, any, any closing thoughts? 01:16:13.280 --> 01:16:17.280 Um, you can make a difference. 01:16:17.280 --> 01:16:22.280 It doesn't matter what you've been taught, what you've been told, you can make a difference 01:16:22.280 --> 01:16:26.280 and you're called to make a difference and God will empower you to do what you've been called 01:16:26.280 --> 01:16:27.280 to do. 01:16:27.280 --> 01:16:28.280 Yeah. 01:16:28.280 --> 01:16:35.280 Um, and for those of you that are wanting to get into ministry in the digital space, another 01:16:35.280 --> 01:16:41.960 thing that, um, we didn't, that came up while you were talking, uh, that I wanted to point 01:16:41.960 --> 01:16:49.220 out was in the digital space, which is different than physical space in that you've got a lot 01:16:49.220 --> 01:16:56.580 of people in with trauma everywhere, but the ones that are not going to physical church and 01:16:56.580 --> 01:17:01.520 can only feel safe in digital spaces is because there is a barrier between them and the other 01:17:01.520 --> 01:17:02.860 human. 01:17:02.860 --> 01:17:07.860 And so that barrier makes people feel safe because they don't have the fear of somebody physically 01:17:07.860 --> 01:17:10.640 attacking them for whatever reason. 01:17:10.640 --> 01:17:13.760 And so I feel that because I have trauma too. 01:17:13.760 --> 01:17:19.580 And I feel that safety when there is a physical barrier between me and other people. 01:17:19.580 --> 01:17:26.820 Yes, I do still talk to real people in real life, but, um, that barrier is a sense of safety 01:17:26.820 --> 01:17:33.400 for people who've been through trauma and do not feel safe going to a pastor, which is mostly 01:17:33.400 --> 01:17:37.800 going to be a male pastor IRL, especially if they're female and they've been traumatized 01:17:37.800 --> 01:17:38.520 by men. 01:17:38.520 --> 01:17:46.660 They don't feel safe going to a pastor within a private meeting with a pastor alone physically, 01:17:46.660 --> 01:17:52.460 but you can digitally and we also need more women to help those women. 01:17:52.460 --> 01:17:59.360 So, yeah, I mean, top, top to bottom on, on all that, you know, there, there's a level 01:17:59.360 --> 01:18:05.440 of almost, we're, we're, we're saying relearn, uh, but there, there's a little bit of, and 01:18:05.440 --> 01:18:10.020 I'm going to use a buzzword, there's a little bit of deconstruction that that's involved in, 01:18:10.020 --> 01:18:16.100 and I don't mean, um, deconstructing faith because I don't know that I'm, I'm talking about 01:18:16.100 --> 01:18:20.200 re-imagining who God is or anything to that. 01:18:20.240 --> 01:18:22.000 God's the same yesterday, today, and forever. 01:18:22.760 --> 01:18:25.800 What we're, what we're doing is taught a wrong character. 01:18:26.340 --> 01:18:31.700 I mean, what we're, what, what I'm actually suggesting is, you know, examine the, the practices 01:18:31.700 --> 01:18:37.500 that you are operating under and are, are they biblical or are they extra biblical? 01:18:37.740 --> 01:18:40.100 Are they scripture or is it outside of scripture? 01:18:40.740 --> 01:18:46.020 And, um, and by, by the way, what you should be listening to is, is the Holy Spirit, uh, in 01:18:46.020 --> 01:18:47.900 that God does speak through experiences. 01:18:47.900 --> 01:18:49.700 God does speak through, through the past. 01:18:49.780 --> 01:18:50.720 God speaks through scripture. 01:18:50.940 --> 01:18:53.220 God speaks to, to people around you. 01:18:53.420 --> 01:19:02.560 And so, um, be open to, um, maybe deconstructing some of these things and, and, and look and 01:19:02.560 --> 01:19:07.860 seeing, you know, Henry Blackaby said this back in 1976, this, this quote's actually older 01:19:07.860 --> 01:19:13.720 than I am, uh, look and see where God is moving and, uh, and join him in, in his work. 01:19:14.140 --> 01:19:20.180 Uh, and then he said something to the extent of, if everyone set aside their selfish ambition 01:19:20.180 --> 01:19:26.640 and vain conceit and joined where, where God is moving, the world would be changed forever. 01:19:27.080 --> 01:19:29.020 And so God is, is moving. 01:19:29.520 --> 01:19:31.220 That was actually a very profound quote. 01:19:31.300 --> 01:19:32.600 I just, I say that all the time. 01:19:32.600 --> 01:19:38.000 But if, if we would actually set aside some of our extra biblical preferences and seeing, 01:19:38.160 --> 01:19:43.540 hey, by doing some things digitally and virtually and MMO and all this stuff, like we can reach 01:19:43.540 --> 01:19:50.180 people that are church hurt, that are asking questions and be comfortable with hard questions 01:19:50.180 --> 01:19:51.540 that we have to work through. 01:19:51.540 --> 01:20:00.440 Um, like that's, what a great challenge for us as, uh, as people of God to maybe embrace 01:20:00.440 --> 01:20:06.080 the MMO, to embrace the virtual reality, embrace this metaverse as the mission field that it 01:20:06.080 --> 01:20:06.580 really is. 01:20:07.240 --> 01:20:11.620 And so, yeah, uh, you know, uh, VR tiger, my quote drop. 01:20:11.700 --> 01:20:11.780 Yeah. 01:20:11.800 --> 01:20:12.040 Thank you. 01:20:12.060 --> 01:20:12.340 I'm done. 01:20:12.700 --> 01:20:16.200 Uh, give credit to, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, what was it? 01:20:16.240 --> 01:20:17.340 Experiencing God, Henry Blackaby. 01:20:17.440 --> 01:20:18.280 That's all Henry Blackaby. 01:20:18.560 --> 01:20:19.400 But we're done. 01:20:19.580 --> 01:20:21.180 You know, an old, an old white man. 01:20:21.260 --> 01:20:22.980 And actually I wrote a, I wrote a blog. 01:20:23.600 --> 01:20:29.160 Um, I, it was an interesting, it was Henry Blackaby, Henry Blackaby's view of the metaverse. 01:20:29.240 --> 01:20:31.900 Henry Blackaby died before the metaverse actually came about. 01:20:31.900 --> 01:20:38.060 But looking at experiencing God, his view of how like the metaverse could work in that 01:20:38.060 --> 01:20:38.880 was incredible. 01:20:39.600 --> 01:20:41.240 Uh, and so let's do this. 01:20:42.080 --> 01:20:47.900 Somebody call Rexy and get Rexy Ronan started on World of Warcraft Church. 01:20:48.160 --> 01:20:54.520 Uh, because I want to interview Rexy, uh, uh, like sometime in the next 12 months and get 01:20:54.520 --> 01:20:57.140 an update with what's going on at, at WoW Church. 01:20:57.520 --> 01:21:01.780 And, uh, you know, Susie will probably be going to get involved in that too, but we're 01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:02.480 going to land the plane. 01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:06.940 So, uh, Pastor Coco, Pastor Alina, thank you for jumping on this stream. 01:21:07.260 --> 01:21:08.100 Uh, love it. 01:21:08.240 --> 01:21:09.800 I wish we could keep going, but I got to go. 01:21:10.280 --> 01:21:14.100 Uh, so we're going to land the plane for Pastor Coco, for Pastor Alina. 01:21:14.220 --> 01:21:16.420 This is Jeff with the Church Digital. 01:21:16.700 --> 01:21:17.700 Thanks for hanging out with us. 01:21:17.760 --> 01:21:19.560 We'll see you next time on the show. 01:21:19.820 --> 01:21:20.280 Y'all have a good one. 01:21:31.660 --> 01:21:33.720 you