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 all right hey everybody welcome to uh the church digital podcast stream whatever it is we're

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 calling this thing i i may be in a little bit of a of a branding slump here um podcasts aren't as

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 cool as they used to be youtube seems to be all the rage and so we've been doing the church

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 digital podcast since i don't know 2019 and i got to rebrand this thing but not really because

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 evidently the church digital is is uh taking off and going awesome hey jeff reed here founder uh

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 president and um you know just uh in general windbag and so it's great to have you here with

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 us today um we're going to be doing uh some fun conversations uh i i love talking about stuff i

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 don't have a clue on and today's conversation is is going to get uh into that we're going to get

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 into the weeds a little bit on maybe it's soul care maybe it's mental health maybe it's chaplaincy to

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 be honest i'm still trying to figure all of that out but but we're what we're really want to get

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 into is how uh we the church digital can help you uh digital missionaries do ministry in uh digital

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 and virtual spaces so we've got uh some great guests we've we've got stacy we've got elle michelle

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 coming on uh two ladies that that have um uh they have some dirt under their fingernails so to speak

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 when it comes to uh mental health soul care caring for individuals in digital and virtual spaces so

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 very much looking forward to this conversation coming up um hey we've got uh some people jumping on with

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 us already in addition to streaming on youtube evidently mr pete jumping in from the outside

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 uh saying you are in big screen as well thank you mr pete mr pete is is like a a walking uh promotional

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 distribution channel all into himself and so uh if you do not check out uh the conversation we had

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 with mr pete a couple weeks ago maybe 334 uh loved it um i multiple people have said to me that i need to

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 have mr pete on to have a one hour theological conversation about the end of the world involving

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 whatever mr pete's uh puppet was i don't remember was it pete was that the name of the of the puppet

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 uh and so you know give the people what they want i don't maybe i don't know that i'm up to date on

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 the theology behind the end of the world necessarily you know uh pre post there there's a whole different

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 thing there but uh it would be interesting uh mr pete thank you once again for jumping on with us

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 troy is skipping school once again so excited it's actually not excited to see troy

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 troy what three more weeks bro like get your butt back in class just turn the phone off

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 finish up after you graduate you can go to town man love love it uh layton is saying let's go with

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 a whole bunch of um random things because once again layton speaks a language that none of the rest of us

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 do that's a common discussion here uh with with the church digital uh mr pete once again the distribution

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 beast that he is has got this posted uh steve reed is doing um comments from the outside talking about

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 gramps uh which is which is interesting gramps is what my father is called that's what my kids call

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 my father and so that was um an internal triggering mechanism that's okay and uh good news troy does

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 not have school troy has work and so we have cleaned up we've gotten through all the pre-show chat

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 of what's happening here excited about that if you guys have questions guys and gals anybody's watching

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 this uh feel free feel free to throw it in chat looking forward to this this the conversation at hand

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 before we get uh going on it i do oh steve actually i don't know was mr pete's puppet named gramps

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 it is okay yeah so el michelle is nodding in the green room it's gramps i thought it was pd

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 no disrespect oh my gosh mr pete's puppet is named gramps

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 there's so many just jokes right there um all right so i'm gonna have to have dinner with my father one

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 day and just you know let the dailies happen it'll it'll be good it'll be a good time anyway hey listen

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 something to put on your radar coming up uh may 20th tuesday may 20th we're doing a town hall meeting

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 those of you know with the church digital once a quarter we get together and do a town hall where we

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 ask questions we listen to what's going on uh with uh the people that are doing digital missions work

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 uh that are part of the church digital community and this is the really uh a part of the show where we

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 listen to you and we want to learn what your challenges are what you're stuck on um and and and really we want to start to

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 explore how we can help and so i'll just sneak peek this whole mental health soul care piece

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 is going to be a big part of of the may 20th um uh it's town hall in addition

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 the schedule of what our upcoming fall conferences will be announced on may 20th and wait the upcoming

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 fall conferences did he say plural yes he said plural uh i think i leaked it last week we're going to be

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 doing at least more than one technically you have to do more than one if you're going to say more

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 so yes we're going to be doing more than one conference in the fall thus the term conferences

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 and uh i i it's going to be more than two it's going to be more than three we still got we got one more

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 detail to figure out but it's going to be very exciting how i think all of this is is going to come

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 together and so may 20th put on your calendar 1 p.m eastern this time in about three weeks or so and

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 it's going to be a great time to come together and celebrate um a what you all are doing in digital

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 mission work i keep moving my hand which is making my camera out of focus uh it's a to celebrate may

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 the 20th what you guys are and gals are up to in digital and virtual spaces um and b start to talk

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 about how we can resource and help you better to to accomplish that and so hey great thanks looking

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 forward there i did it again i i just i want to i want to my auto focus i've got to keep my hand

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 lower because my camera focus is racking it's driving me nuts stacy knows she's she's got it anyway hey let me

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 introduce uh to the show to the people hanging out backstage uh stacy and el michelle

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 uh i would i you know el michelle i usually call you the coolest person i've ever met online which

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 does not say much for stacy so i i i feel like i need to to do a better descriptive so two of the

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 coolest people i've met on well actually that's not even a stretch you know stacy starts talking

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 about her dj days and it like she's so much cooler so much cooler no no no okay all right stacy how

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 many times have you seen lincoln park in concert oh that's a long that's a lot i'd say 15

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 cool yeah you know what i'm saying right there like i don't even need stace l michelle you are no longer

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 the coolest you you are a close second like you just got drunk oh yeah yeah it is it's a lot it is a lot

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 i know i know i will have to say i will have to say i haven't seen them in the last

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 eight or nine years though so yeah what what is the what in the not planned part of the conversation

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 what is the musical act that you've seen the most in concert

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 i well for me yeah is it lincoln park is it okay it is lincoln park yeah but but you know i've seen my

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 brother play many many times growing up and recently too so yeah i've seen i've seen the the worship band

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 that my church every sunday but i'm not counting that as a show so maybe maybe i should but that

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 wasn't on my list that that's funny all right yeah so uh let these uh these two ladies are

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 chaplains through through the church digital and so we're going to get into exactly what that means

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 and how they are are here uh to help uh digital missionaries help people like you be more effective

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 in the ministry that god's called you to do but before we get there i'd love to maybe just give

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 them an opportunity to tell a little bit of their story what they do what their background is and so

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 to kick it off uh stacy do you maybe want to share a little bit of your story and your background

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 yeah sure uh so it first started i think back in the day and it had to do with lincoln park uh so

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 i joined the message board the fan club and then message board and that's back in the days where you

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 had all these different threads going back and forth asynchronous and so it was really compelling

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 moment when i realized well these people are hurting and then um and they're sharing they're sharing

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 lots of details and and i was just present to them i didn't fix them i didn't tell them what to do but i

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 was just like oh that sounds really heavy or horrible and that really started uh an idea of chaplaincy

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 work i didn't know what that was gonna look like in my future this is in 2003 i didn't know had no idea

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 what that looked like but as i did more um experiences uh with chaplains in my church denomination and with

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 how they did that you know it was all these different industries they were doing so i thought

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 oh well what about music because i was into music that time and that's kind of where it started and

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 then as it's always been though in the digital space uh yes in person but my focus has been in the digital

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 space because that's where people are they were they were showing up so um and then got connected with

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 tcd i think it's through facebook maybe a few years ago and then um can't get rid of me

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 and involved with my church which is a mostly digital platform church imagine church that's it

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 i'm sitting here talking away and like y'all are being quiet i'm like oh the idiot i'm muted

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 sorry i i went no one tells the host no one checks the host we were just like

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 for like awesome hey andy we're gonna go ahead and cut out uh like moments uh eight to eleven we'll

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 kind of have to do some edits around that point though good very cool i always thought that you

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 found this dude through uh imagine church not not separate but maybe maybe i was off on that

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 it was a long time ago what do i know it feels like a long time ago it's really yeah

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 like four years maybe during covet

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 el michelle what's your what's your background

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 well um let's see in the digital space my background background is news reporting uh believe it or not

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 and uh just kind of reporting on news at the state level and politics of the time of the early 2000s but

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 at a similar time i got into writing a column that i called stories of faith at the time and

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 just writing people's testimonies because i love story and i love to hear people's stories and was

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 really pressing in more to god at the time this was like my mid-20s and i was like it'd be kind of

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 cool i'm doing all these news stories it'd be cool if i could do stories that were more surrounding

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 testimony so i started doing that and that just kind of led me down a path of finding more of god

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 uh more purpose like starting to do media more uh along the lines of media ministry which i didn't

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 know at the time i just was calling it media for god and uh so it started with radio ministry

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 um with my pastor now uh like 20 years ago just kind of helping out with the radio ministry and then at

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 that time there was like myspace and things like that and we were like we should start doing what we

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 believe on myspace too so that was like all the rage like yeah we're gonna do that then we were like we

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 need something called a website and i just remember wordpress was so big back then oh wordpress you could build

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 your own you don't have to pay people thousands of dollars to then decide they don't want to be your

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 web designer and take their site and your site with them so you know it was all about learning how to

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 translate what we were doing how to transfer that into more of a digital type package and it just

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 really grew from there to having smaller cameras like the flip cam and doing quick videos and then

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 facebook and the social social networks and fast forward to now it's always been emerging media and

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 technology and ministry how those things could merge but i didn't have much of a community until i met

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 like jeff and saw like i'm one of a whole bunch of other people who are doing this too i just

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 had not met them yet and um from there just began to be more encouraged even in the things that we're

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 doing now with smart glasses and the metaverse and and now i'm here um working more in the mental health

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 space i'll say during the pandemic is when i really found out about trauma healing which is my area of

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 a real interest in the mental health space and then um from there just started using it in these um

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 talking about trauma healing and wanting to host groups uh trauma healing groups not just

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 on zoom but in the metaverse as well and it just it has kind of led me now to i guess a point of

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 chaplaincy if you will in this particular area uh with the church that digital so no i i love that all

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 the way going all the way back to the flip the flip cameras you you that oh the flip camera wasn't that

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 a dream oh my gosh that triggered so many memories back in back in the day of that but you know you're

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 you're talking about um in in stacy i want to revisit some things with you as well but

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 you're you're talking about um you know augmented reality smart glasses and and you're you're tying

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 this into uh to mental health and and um you know life within and some of this so talk to us a little

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 bit because you really are doing el michelle you're doing some really interesting work kind of below the

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 radar here a little bit share with us what what you're doing with some of this technology

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 yeah well you know i just as you were talking you know just reflecting on the flip cam and things like

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 that it's just amazing to me how god will use any tool you surrender for him to him for his glory like

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 really any tool that's why it's never you know it's always the user not the tools that are the problem

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 so for me um to get into the work that i'm doing with smart glasses this started um i guess in uh 2016

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 with google glass i had this idea of making a life film i was like how cool because you know you had

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 the flip cam that was small camera you could just like kind of record these quick videos but i was

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 like how cool would it be to record your life um through your own pov like through your eyes

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 so it started with google glass but you know you got a lot of heat for having a camera you were walking

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 around and wearing at that time it's before it's time it was before it's time yeah yeah yeah they had a

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 name for people like that and it wasn't a goblin name you know so it was just like maybe i don't

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 know it was good to do this but i don't know if this is gonna necessarily be used to win people

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 but it was fun a lot lasting so fast forward to uh snapchat spectacles being a much better price

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 point um and just still kind of able to do some of the same things i thought during my 40th year of

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 life which is was in 2019 that i would record the year just as um documenting the year so to speak

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 but what i didn't know and found out maybe a few months in i started looking at the footage

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 and i started seeing behavior because you're not on camera face wise but your behaviors how you make

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 people feel you know um your mannerisms that you don't know this like those kind of things are on

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 camera and it it really started to turn more into a healing experience because i began to see

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 uh ways that i was acting out that i couldn't receive uh criticism about from other people

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 because i was just too strong willed so i would always have a comeback if they're like you're doing

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 this wrong i'm like and what are you doing wrong are you removing that log out of your eye first you

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 know i just always was kind of and that's why it's interesting for me to be in the mental health space

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 because i was a little rejected of it because i felt like if you're getting the word you're being

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 transformed and so i almost saw mental health as something outside of god in a way it's like you have

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 mental health when you don't maybe go to god first you need to kind of get help elsewhere when you could

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 be praying or seeking out your word i didn't see how it was just really all intertwined until the smart

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 class until my behavioral health came center stage until i realized the hidden traumas were coming out in

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 the video and i couldn't stop them you know because it was coming out of me through my own eyes and pov

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 and so it just kind of led to this journey which unlocked trauma healing like maybe you should

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 join a group and i was like a group and so for me you know i like being in this space because i'm

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 for the people who feel like they don't need it i feel like god sent me in this space for the people

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 who are like you know they're high performers or whatever and they just don't think there's anything

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 wrong when they have experienced some things that have been hurtful but may be suppressed and they don't

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 realize it's coming out for everybody else to see they're just missing it so the smart glasses

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 um it turned from a year-long project to now i'm six years into recording and recording the whole

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 decade in this way and healing every step of the way i mean it's a fortunate thing but it's

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 unfortunate because every year i think i've gotten way better and then i'll look back at some clips

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 and ultimately have to say i'm sorry i didn't realize this before but it just shows to me

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 shows me that healing is a journey so you're a work in progress that's that's a positive way to look at

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 it yeah and it's needed mental health is not apart from our relationship with god and in fact it's

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 another tool that he uses to help us live this life that he died for us so it really kind of brought it

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 all together for me through this smart glass project we'll probably get more into the uh the the trauma

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 recovery the trauma healing uh here in a little bit but uh you know stacy you're spending a lot of time

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 and and and one of the things that really impresses me by your work is is the amount of work that

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 you're doing helping people you know deal with grief uh via digital platforms and and how you're um

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 counseling available listening uh to people via digital when they're dealing with things that

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 so often has to be the the the ideas that oh that has to be done physically but you're finding ways to

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 do it digitally do you maybe want to share a little bit about what you're learning through uh welcoming

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 grief yeah welcoming grief that's the title of my ministry uh but i've noticed all it takes is observing

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 as uh in social media and being present uh and when people are sharing about just life in general it

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 doesn't take much if you're paying attention it doesn't take much when someone is sharing about

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 their their life transition even so it's not even it's not just the death of loved ones so that is

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 part of it but it's also changes transitions uh the other losses that um recall i've called it the other

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 losses of of life i mean job changes uh job loss um maybe maybe the role that you have as maybe a mom or dad

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 maybe that's changed maybe anything like that and so when when people are excited they post pictures

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 about their kids graduating and it depends on how uh the attachment or the relationship i have with

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 someone i will reach out to them i said wow that's exciting how is that going for you

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 it doesn't take much that's all it is i asked that question then they then people just the floodgates

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 open oh i'm so thrilled but i'm having a hard time i don't know what this is going to be like

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 oh my kids going to college away to college away to school they're moving out different things like

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 that so um and and that's just through a direct a private message and i'm not i'm not trying to fix

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 you i don't think you're broken i just think you're it's something a a life um life event that we don't

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 talk about all of the emotions that we experience in those life events and um you know we talk about

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 grief what does that look like no it's not just mourning the loss the physical death of someone maybe

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 it's even a relationship change with someone that you care about and it's different now it's changed

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 it's took a turn covet during covet a lot of relationships changed during covet so i walked

00:23:47.480 --> 00:23:54.440
 through some hard times with with people who had different opinions and strong opinions and because

00:23:54.440 --> 00:23:59.320
 of that the relationship changed and that was heartbreaking for a lot of people going through that

00:23:59.960 --> 00:24:07.960
 so um just being present maybe two minutes you could scroll on your feed and you will notice

00:24:08.840 --> 00:24:14.360
 you will notice life transitions whatever people share it's amazing what we share out in public

00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:24.280
 not even just to our friends but public sharing and i believe it's an opportunity it's really a compelling

00:24:24.280 --> 00:24:33.160
 opportunity to serve people in their uh their emotions and the change and grief and loss beautiful you know

00:24:33.160 --> 00:24:39.400
 steve reed says right here two eyes two ears for a reason i i guess he's uh calling to attention uh

00:24:39.400 --> 00:24:45.160
 intelligent design i guess so to speak only one mouth we'd probably need to shut it more but uh

00:24:46.200 --> 00:24:53.080
 very good with that well um as we as we look at um you know it's interesting we've been trying to figure

00:24:53.080 --> 00:24:59.320
 out i've for a couple years now three four years what's the role of of mental health and we've had

00:24:59.320 --> 00:25:07.960
 people in in the church digital we've had people champion kind of step into it um uh megan carter was

00:25:07.960 --> 00:25:14.280
 was for a season and we've done a lot of work with uh mindy calaguire with soulcare.com uh alongside and

00:25:14.280 --> 00:25:19.960
 so like we've we've i would say we've really toyed with the idea but we we didn't really

00:25:20.680 --> 00:25:30.680
 have a a clear focus on this until we really got into uh the place of uh being a digital missionary

00:25:30.680 --> 00:25:37.880
 sending agency and once we narrowed down to digital missionaries all of a sudden that opened up a lot

00:25:37.880 --> 00:25:46.040
 more clarity because now it's like we are trying to help make sure that our digital missionaries you

00:25:46.040 --> 00:25:51.560
 know and i say these these three a lot one we have people that are doing ministry and digital and virtual

00:25:51.560 --> 00:25:59.480
 spaces and the the spaces the platforms they're on are addictive they are recruiting volunteers a

00:25:59.480 --> 00:26:06.760
 virtual reality is is an addictive platform even social media the doom scrolling is addictive and

00:26:06.760 --> 00:26:14.200
 so we're doing ministry in areas that is addictive number two uh we're recruiting volunteers and inviting

00:26:14.200 --> 00:26:23.000
 them to do ministry in a platform that's addictive and number three we're doing ministry uh for

00:26:23.000 --> 00:26:28.840
 people we're doing ministry to people we're doing ministry working with people that are

00:26:29.480 --> 00:26:36.760
 uh we're seeing in digital virtual spaces it's a much higher percentage of addiction and so as we as i

00:26:36.760 --> 00:26:46.920
 have to sneeze and that's bad because that's true if i sneeze once i'm gonna have to sneeze five times

00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:52.520
 so i'm gonna shut up real quick um but really when we look at at the the the role of it of of

00:26:52.520 --> 00:27:00.600
 um mental health of of soul care towards digital missionaries and empowering them and equipping

00:27:00.600 --> 00:27:08.360
 them stacy and i started talking about the need of of a chaplain of of somebody who could come in and

00:27:08.360 --> 00:27:14.520
 it's interesting like stacy i almost want to ask you the question what does a chaplain do like like

00:27:14.520 --> 00:27:21.640
 kind of set the stage here a little bit uh for the church digital physically digitally what does a

00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:31.320
 a chaplain actually do yeah good yeah good question uh both in person and digitally uh we chaplains

00:27:31.320 --> 00:27:39.240
 are present in the end whether it's their immediate crisis situation or maybe it's a long-term thing that

00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:49.880
 someone's facing and has a deep need for care um in the technical in our in chaplain training we say it's

00:27:49.880 --> 00:27:58.520
 to decrease arousal okay i know that sounds funny but it's to decrease the stress and minimize it it's

00:27:58.520 --> 00:28:06.280
 not to fix it's not to diagnose it's not to come up with a treatment plan but is to be present in that

00:28:06.280 --> 00:28:13.480
 moment for someone so that by the end of the conversation we could ask how do you feel and

00:28:13.480 --> 00:28:20.840
 if they say oh i feel better or i feel like i have maybe tools to move forward and it's never about i

00:28:20.840 --> 00:28:28.360
 need to get over this as it is i'm helping you supporting you in that moment um for and and

00:28:28.360 --> 00:28:38.840
 chaplaincy work could be in various uh environments hospital um workplace chaplains different uh

00:28:38.840 --> 00:28:46.600
 different and so for me it is really in the digital space that's my just my primary but also i serve as

00:28:46.600 --> 00:28:55.640
 as a chaplain in workplaces everything from a um from a hospital uh a rehab hospital to

00:28:56.360 --> 00:29:02.440
 even manufacturing plants where i'm on the manufacturing floor i'm just present and we say

00:29:02.440 --> 00:29:09.160
 in our a lot of us we say this is that we are present in your worst moments life moments

00:29:11.080 --> 00:29:20.120
 and so what i referenced earlier is uh when i see the posts on social media some of those sound like

00:29:20.120 --> 00:29:26.360
 worst day situations and so it doesn't take much just to reach out and check in

00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:34.040
 um and in person in my workplace chaplaincy i'm literally i'm not i may be on the factory line but i'm

00:29:34.040 --> 00:29:38.840
 not having full conversations with some of these people it's literally just hey checking in how's

00:29:38.840 --> 00:29:44.840
 it going how is the holidays when it was the holidays i did not assume holidays were going

00:29:44.840 --> 00:29:51.560
 to be this positive great thing some people it was the worst time of year for them and so i just come

00:29:51.560 --> 00:29:58.040
 across with that just saying hey i know uh holidays are not always the best time of year so um i'm here

00:29:58.040 --> 00:30:03.880
 for you if you want to chat if you have something to share and that just opens the floodgate

00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:09.320
 so and i think that's how it is even in digital space the great thing is i i don't i'm not

00:30:09.320 --> 00:30:15.880
 expecting an immediate response from people you know it's the expectation that they just know that i care

00:30:16.680 --> 00:30:25.320
 and that is that's the love of god that's the love of god people can experience the love of god and peace

00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:31.960
 and care and if they could be on the other side of the world and they won't even respond to me

00:30:31.960 --> 00:30:38.360
 till the next day you know it just that's what i love about it about the digital space

00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:46.600
 so uh you know i'm hearing being there i'm hearing active listening um i'm hearing um you know

00:30:46.600 --> 00:30:54.120
 communication uh being of being available um el michelle you know i know you've done uh some some

00:30:54.120 --> 00:30:59.560
 works in around uh active listening in the metaverse you were actually one of our speakers with the

00:30:59.560 --> 00:31:06.760
 digital missionary summit talking about active listening in in the metaverse so as as you explore

00:31:07.320 --> 00:31:13.800
 you know the idea of of being a chaplain in the metaverse a chaplain to virtual reality and beyond

00:31:13.800 --> 00:31:21.000
 what is that what does that even start to look like for you yeah well kind of like what stacy said she

00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:31.160
 hit the nail on the head just about being there to listen listening is like very key especially in the

00:31:31.160 --> 00:31:39.720
 area that i'm most passionate about in the area of trauma healing most of it is about talking out the

00:31:39.720 --> 00:31:46.040
 pain already lodged inside the hearts of people a lot of times you know people are walking around and

00:31:46.040 --> 00:31:52.600
 especially you know behind our avatars we like to say in the metaverse behind every avatar is a real

00:31:52.600 --> 00:31:59.800
 person you know just like behind the keyboard behind the screen wherever people are those are people

00:31:59.800 --> 00:32:06.600
 that are there for the most part i know we have ai agents and all of those things but even people behind

00:32:06.600 --> 00:32:13.400
 kind of like masterminding these things it's still people behind it and a lot of people are hurting even the

00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:21.240
 pandemic was traumatic for a lot of people a lot of lost experience a lot of hopelessness and helplessness

00:32:21.240 --> 00:32:30.280
 at that time um of what we could do and sometimes grief uh could be traumatic if it's sudden you know

00:32:30.280 --> 00:32:38.680
 people unexpected and things like that so for me you know there are three main questions that we always ask

00:32:38.680 --> 00:32:46.600
 um in the trauma healing arena and there are three simple questions but if you listen it helps people

00:32:46.600 --> 00:32:55.480
 begin to process their pain from another part of their brain it begins their process of healing and

00:32:55.480 --> 00:33:02.280
 walking through um what may have taken place and those three questions are just simply what happened

00:33:03.240 --> 00:33:10.920
 how did it make you feel and what was the hardest part of that for you could be a whole discussion of

00:33:10.920 --> 00:33:18.520
 helping the person process the moment that caused trauma in their lives we find out we found you know

00:33:18.520 --> 00:33:25.320
 barna did a study on trauma in the church and pastors and you know many of them responded i can't pull

00:33:25.320 --> 00:33:31.240
 that's right off my head i'm like what is this that but it was more pastors than not that said lots of

00:33:31.240 --> 00:33:39.160
 members in their congregations were suffering from trauma and many of them felt ill-equipped to handle these

00:33:39.160 --> 00:33:48.920
 but there is a way even starting with not rushing but just simply listening and what that does take is time

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:57.480
 it does take you know allocating this space to do that and it does take a heart of care of just genuine

00:33:58.040 --> 00:34:08.360
 care not just to keep membership or to be perceived as nice a nice person but just a genuine heart of care for

00:34:08.360 --> 00:34:17.320
 people who uh have faced some really tough things so for me listening is the key to that because like

00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:25.720
 stacy said whether they're writing it out or in the metaverse being such an immersive space i mean unlike

00:34:25.720 --> 00:34:33.080
 the video you do on a screen it's the embodiment thing it's like you know you actually be in there and

00:34:33.080 --> 00:34:39.560
 in a lot of ways i'm preaching to the choir but the immersive nature of the platform feels like you're

00:34:39.560 --> 00:34:47.080
 in person having a one-to-one conversation which is why i thought what a great idea would be to start

00:34:47.080 --> 00:34:53.560
 trauma healing groups in there because sometimes people don't want you to be associated with their

00:34:53.560 --> 00:34:59.080
 in real life persona so then you see them at the store and you're like yeah that's jim we're in a

00:34:59.080 --> 00:35:04.760
 group together he's going through a lot you know love to be have that anonymity that avatars kind

00:35:04.760 --> 00:35:13.320
 of bring to the equation but you're still sharing real-time sharing the deep parts of your pain which

00:35:13.320 --> 00:35:22.120
 people are more inclined to share more than they would in an in-person interaction just because they

00:35:22.120 --> 00:35:29.880
 kind of have a little bit of a barrier but what it takes even in those spaces sometimes i've attempted

00:35:29.880 --> 00:35:37.720
 to say all right i'm gonna do this group and we have these benchmarks we want to hit and almost 10 out of 10

00:35:37.720 --> 00:35:47.880
 times it's just about people having a space that's safe and that's caring and that's really they feel

00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:54.200
 the love of god where they can share what's on their heart they say is the most has brought the most

00:35:54.200 --> 00:36:00.600
 healing to them then they'll say now what else is in your curriculum but the fact that you will stand

00:36:00.600 --> 00:36:08.120
 here and listen to me without rushing me without trying to preach to me not trying to fix people

00:36:08.120 --> 00:36:15.320
 not listening to fix you know or listening to get your fix but listening out of genuine care

00:36:16.040 --> 00:36:20.280
 for people just i found to bring so much healing especially in the metaverse

00:36:20.840 --> 00:36:27.080
 where it is the real world space you know it is it's so funny to me no i appreciate it it's so funny to

00:36:27.080 --> 00:36:35.800
 me that uh people put on the virtual reality avatar mask and then they're completely transparent but so

00:36:35.800 --> 00:36:44.120
 often in physical space where they're they're completely seen that's when they want to hide it's it's it's

00:36:44.120 --> 00:36:50.520
 like they they need to hide if they can be seen but if they cannot be seen there's no reason to hide

00:36:50.840 --> 00:36:56.760
 and i love how through the trauma healing in the metaverse uh and actually this is some of the

00:36:56.760 --> 00:37:03.400
 mantra behind why uh digital mission work is so effective because we're able to engage with people

00:37:03.400 --> 00:37:09.880
 digitally and even virtually in in ways that you know the physical church in in physical missions just

00:37:09.880 --> 00:37:17.240
 doesn't doesn't have the the luxury and and the benefit of um so uh as you both look at this and by

00:37:17.240 --> 00:37:22.760
 the way i i love your your three questions there nicole highlighted them in chat so let me let me just

00:37:22.760 --> 00:37:29.320
 throw them up here real quick to reinforce what happened number two how did it make you feel

00:37:29.960 --> 00:37:38.520
 uh number three what was the hardest uh for you and of course uh nicole howard says hey stacy and

00:37:38.520 --> 00:37:44.920
 now michelle uh by the way stacy's here on a tuesday as opposed to being being stuck at work so hey stacy

00:37:44.920 --> 00:37:52.280
 like we see you that that was that's good glad you're here um talk to uh talk to us a little bit here

00:37:52.920 --> 00:38:02.040
 um as uh stacy just to to kick us off here a little bit as you look at okay chaplains as you look at

00:38:02.600 --> 00:38:08.760
 you know listening to people as you look at what you're seeing inside the church digital communities

00:38:08.760 --> 00:38:15.160
 you're no stranger to the church digital you've been around here for a while what are like what

00:38:15.160 --> 00:38:21.640
 what are some of the the challenges and opportunities we're facing uh just in general like what what are

00:38:21.640 --> 00:38:30.120
 some issues that you're seeing well i'm finding and maybe this is pretty basic across the board in digital

00:38:30.120 --> 00:38:39.000
 work ministry is that people are feeling alone to begin with a lot of times they come to tcd because

00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:46.840
 they're looking for community themselves uh maybe for their own maybe the initial was to be connected

00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:53.880
 with others who are in the digital space and whether it's a church or missionary or anything else

00:38:53.880 --> 00:39:02.680
 but they're already feeling alone but when they join the community they also are finding out oh i need

00:39:02.680 --> 00:39:11.080
 support and i need care whatever i'm going through and so um i'm finding that some people because there

00:39:11.080 --> 00:39:19.560
 is maybe not quite the support and needed where you know uh and maybe they're involved with an in-person

00:39:19.560 --> 00:39:28.040
 church that they're looking for other people to maybe share ideas but in the sharing ideas within tcd

00:39:28.040 --> 00:39:34.280
 you're finding oh there is support and care provided as well you know the there's a prayer channel and

00:39:34.280 --> 00:39:40.040
 people dropping their prayer requests in there and and even though it's across it's across the world but

00:39:40.040 --> 00:39:48.920
 there's always someone that's going to respond with emoji to say oh a heart or praying hands to say like i

00:39:48.920 --> 00:39:56.120
 i'm i see you i'm reading this and i'm praying for you in this moment and um with when it comes to

00:39:56.120 --> 00:40:05.000
 chaplaincy work while that is part of it as well there's the opportunities to serve people if they want

00:40:05.800 --> 00:40:15.720
 care then um more than just the opportunity of with the community in general that we are perhaps we could be a

00:40:15.720 --> 00:40:23.000
 person of support to you you know where chaplaincy work is not like we've el michelle mentioned we're

00:40:23.000 --> 00:40:30.520
 not we're not looking to to fix you or or uh come up with a treatment steps now it's not clinical

00:40:31.160 --> 00:40:38.680
 and just being the president yeah it's just to be to be present and the end of most of my conversations

00:40:38.680 --> 00:40:45.160
 i'll ask you know how do you feel how do you feel now as you did when at the beginning of this

00:40:45.160 --> 00:40:51.480
 conversation and maybe what's a practical step moving forward in this not to get over it not to

00:40:51.480 --> 00:40:57.720
 just stop your feelings but maybe moving a practical step in the next moving forward in that direction

00:40:57.720 --> 00:41:04.120
 and i think that's an opportunity for us not just as the chap those of us with the label chaplain but

00:41:04.120 --> 00:41:11.640
 how we can support one another in this in the digital space in tcd in this community we can

00:41:11.640 --> 00:41:19.800
 learn you know maybe it's it's about equipping others on how to be present for each other not just

00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:25.240
 maybe in the people you serve in the digital space but how about how how we serve each other in tcd

00:41:26.600 --> 00:41:32.280
 that's right yeah how does that reconcile with with you l michelle especially as you're thinking about

00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:37.160
 you know ministry of some of what you're seeing in the metaverse and some of the people uh that that

00:41:37.160 --> 00:41:43.800
 you've you've encountered uh in in vr and in other spaces um what what are some of the needs and

00:41:43.800 --> 00:41:53.160
 challenges they're facing um i think kind of like what we said just being heard in general also um

00:41:53.800 --> 00:42:01.240
 having to hide you know hide behind maybe being a high performer i'll never forget i was um

00:42:01.240 --> 00:42:07.800
 in a church in the metaverse and a man came up for prayer and after we prayed he said thank you he said

00:42:07.800 --> 00:42:15.240
 you know in real life i'm a marine biologist and i couldn't be as vulnerable as i was in this group of

00:42:15.240 --> 00:42:24.760
 people because of in his mind what he did and in some people's mind having you know mental health concerns

00:42:25.320 --> 00:42:32.200
 that showing or being a sign of weakness even you know my husband is a chaplain in the military so

00:42:32.200 --> 00:42:39.560
 we deal uh with this you know kind of all the time like you have this persona that you're you're presenting

00:42:40.120 --> 00:42:47.160
 when really you're kind of hurting inside so we're seeing a lot of people who a need to be heard a

00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:54.600
 are tired of hiding because they know that this is just it's it's it's it's really coming to a head

00:42:54.600 --> 00:42:59.640
 now you know like they're not going to be able to hide anymore they don't feel like they have a place

00:42:59.640 --> 00:43:09.240
 to go so then what is the what is the next step so them having like this kind of outlet helps keep them

00:43:09.800 --> 00:43:16.360
 on a path of hope and i was just thinking about something stacy said how people are lonely even

00:43:16.360 --> 00:43:23.960
 though we have more networks and more media just more things that we can get involved with on our phones

00:43:23.960 --> 00:43:32.600
 and otherwise more than ever before but a lot of people are numb to being empathetic to caring everything

00:43:32.600 --> 00:43:38.680
 is just so numbing you could even you know people might even pass it's just like yeah r.i.p to that

00:43:38.680 --> 00:43:46.520
 and then it's happy birthday to this in the next post it's just it's it is the way life is it's the circle

00:43:46.520 --> 00:43:58.360
 of life but i think having chaplains or even people as missionaries who are not numb who are empathetic

00:43:58.360 --> 00:44:07.000
 who are awake to things hurting beyond the few seconds it takes to scroll who follow up the next day

00:44:07.800 --> 00:44:13.320
 okay this happened to you yesterday they're not just like oh well let's get it popping for today

00:44:13.320 --> 00:44:21.080
 what's up no they're mindful but they also don't keep you down to that place maybe you are now moving

00:44:21.080 --> 00:44:26.040
 forward so they don't just keep you there yet you remember when you were down you know they're able

00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:34.440
 to journey along with you and i think that there's a real absence of that just on platforms and networks

00:44:34.440 --> 00:44:42.840
 in general just because of the nature of the game right so when you do find a place or a people

00:44:42.840 --> 00:44:48.040
 who are awake to the fact that this might have hurt a little bit more you still might be hurting or

00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:54.360
 it's difficult for you to process that or you know you need someone to talk to even though you are the

00:44:54.360 --> 00:45:04.440
 president of said company you know it's refreshing and i feel like that's really in this moment i'm just

00:45:04.440 --> 00:45:10.120
 thinking that's what jesus really wants for us to be like a fresh cup of water in the midst of

00:45:11.240 --> 00:45:17.160
 oh this real dryness that's out there it's just becoming really dry even though it looks like

00:45:17.160 --> 00:45:25.080
 there's a lot going on it's just making people harder and so i think when we come into the equation

00:45:25.080 --> 00:45:32.440
 and our heart is a little bit softer and we're a little bit more in tune to people as god is showing

00:45:32.440 --> 00:45:38.680
 us things and people in tune to us i remember stacy asked me one day or she asked somebody how they were

00:45:38.680 --> 00:45:45.880
 doing and i was there and i just told her that was profound like now it's profound to ask someone how

00:45:45.880 --> 00:45:53.720
 they're doing and really mean it you know and so i just think to answer your question in a very long way

00:45:53.720 --> 00:46:01.880
 because you see i like to go around the bush a little bit um people want to be heard for real

00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:08.360
 because they have platforms to post but they don't have people to process with you know

00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:15.720
 you have platforms to post but not people to process with yeah it's interesting judy uh judy says this

00:46:15.720 --> 00:46:22.360
 hey judy uh that almost echoes exactly what you're saying safe space caring and sharing feelings love of

00:46:22.360 --> 00:46:32.040
 god active listening uh not preaching and and not fixing it's it's interesting um i actually think that

00:46:32.760 --> 00:46:38.440
 digitally and this does fly counter-cultural judy digitally it's it's all about creating content

00:46:39.240 --> 00:46:45.720
 and so it's it's all about talking not about listening and so a lot of what we're describing

00:46:45.720 --> 00:46:50.920
 here through the church digital it is it is counter-cultural it's not so much about you talking

00:46:51.640 --> 00:46:56.440
 it's not about the perfect 40 minute sermon it's it's it's much more about listening

00:46:56.440 --> 00:47:00.680
 using more question marks than periods and for love of god never use an exclamation mark

00:47:01.480 --> 00:47:07.960
 in in recognizing how to do that in digital and virtual space uh and and so uh definitely love

00:47:07.960 --> 00:47:14.040
 this idea uh that we're starting to to scratch here judy thanks for sharing that appreciate that

00:47:14.040 --> 00:47:19.800
 oh my gosh white beard's even coming around nicole is building on that uh judy and the concept of

00:47:19.800 --> 00:47:26.680
 brave space for youth and young adults um here i just always want to anytime tom says something tom's

00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:33.720
 tom's smart plus he looks like um literally a monk uh because that's his his tom is the perfect

00:47:33.720 --> 00:47:39.640
 impersonation of the handle he has created for himself white beard punk monk have you have you

00:47:39.640 --> 00:47:45.080
 looked at his photo just saying uh i've had so many people in life who talk about mental health but have

00:47:45.080 --> 00:47:53.480
 never taken time uh to check on me um yeah tom i love that tom we've stacy and i were literally

00:47:53.480 --> 00:48:01.800
 talking about you an hour ago so you're checked on um yeah i've you know very good all right moving on

00:48:01.800 --> 00:48:09.640
 i've i now have found new people who care about me and and ask uh and nicole saying uh that is so true

00:48:09.640 --> 00:48:17.160
 forget about the aftercare the day after uh the the traumatic incident uh uh stacy you're shaking

00:48:17.160 --> 00:48:22.360
 your head yes sir you got anything to add on that yeah yeah i i want to add to that because in

00:48:23.080 --> 00:48:33.080
 chaplaincy in person chaplaincy training we go through days of training of of debriefing or or putting

00:48:33.080 --> 00:48:39.960
 people in groups things that may have happened with the whole group and it's not just in that moment

00:48:39.960 --> 00:48:49.560
 right it is continuing the conversation and if if if someone wants to uh you know follow up we'll ask

00:48:49.560 --> 00:48:55.800
 well do you would you like follow up we always ask that we don't assume that everyone wants that it

00:48:55.800 --> 00:49:03.960
 could be so traumatic they don't want to even talk about it yet and so we just it's when you're present

00:49:03.960 --> 00:49:10.200
 with someone that's something to think to think about um in that i want to go back to what el michelle

00:49:10.200 --> 00:49:15.560
 said because this is so compelling when you said earlier about um it's not about trying to fix

00:49:16.120 --> 00:49:22.760
 other people and it's not trying to get your fix to fix people or something like that that say that

00:49:22.760 --> 00:49:27.480
 can you say that again yeah i said you know when we're listening to people we're not listening to

00:49:27.480 --> 00:49:37.000
 fix them or get our fix you know it's almost like i'm listening to you to you know absorb the trauma

00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:43.960
 you've had then i could get my preach on about the trauma you've had and then i could feel like a

00:49:43.960 --> 00:49:55.800
 better person because this has been my help for today so good like what is that you know so i've

00:49:55.800 --> 00:50:02.360
 gotten a fix now i'm on to the next person what happened to you it's just it's just never in the

00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:10.600
 cycle but the it's all the motivation is not right because if we just really wanted to

00:50:11.240 --> 00:50:17.880
 have a listening ear i remember once uh it was after the pandemic someone had um a network was

00:50:17.880 --> 00:50:24.360
 just like you know you can book just a time where we're going to listen to whatever idea you have

00:50:25.080 --> 00:50:31.080
 it's like really and it wasn't they they put out there we're not going to use your idea or anything

00:50:31.080 --> 00:50:35.240
 we're just going to give you an opportunity to talk it through and we're going to listen and we're going

00:50:35.240 --> 00:50:40.760
 to ask you questions about your idea to get you to process it better it was like the best 30 minute

00:50:40.760 --> 00:50:48.760
 zoom i've ever been on knowing i didn't feel rushed i knew my time didn't feel rushed didn't feel like

00:50:48.760 --> 00:50:54.600
 they were like yeah we thought of that before nothing they were just genuinely there to listen

00:50:54.600 --> 00:50:59.480
 and they said if you don't have anything to say and you just want someone on here just looking we'll

00:50:59.480 --> 00:51:06.440
 do that too and i think it was their idea of helping people through the pandemic but maybe we need to get

00:51:06.440 --> 00:51:13.640
 back to that just doing a listening session for people i want to know more about that let's

00:51:13.640 --> 00:51:19.560
 without motive that offline no motive i want to know you know no getting our fix no trying to fix

00:51:21.080 --> 00:51:31.160
 well i i think we're doing a good job of talking about how to maybe care for self is isn't the right word but

00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:40.520
 care for a generation care for like those that are are underneath us we need to be better active listeners

00:51:41.080 --> 00:51:49.080
 um but by doing digital missionary um and we want to see digital missionaries multiply there's a lot of

00:51:49.080 --> 00:51:57.560
 of scaling of these ideas um where it's not just you know we need to be active listening but we need to

00:51:57.560 --> 00:52:04.680
 train others on on on how to do active listening so that they can be effective yeah the church digital

00:52:04.680 --> 00:52:11.640
 needs to scale but also individual missionaries need these ideas to scale out beyond just them and so

00:52:12.360 --> 00:52:19.400
 um what what does that even look like how do we maybe start to see some of these ideas uh scale out

00:52:21.400 --> 00:52:29.480
 oh i'll speak to that there is always opportunity to learn and even as i train other chaplains i'm

00:52:29.480 --> 00:52:35.880
 learning from them but i think it is really important for us to provide opportunities to

00:52:35.880 --> 00:52:43.560
 learn and when i say learn it's not classroom just classroom setting so el michelle and what you're

00:52:43.560 --> 00:52:51.400
 doing in the metaverse it's interactive it's not just oh i'm gonna tell you what to do but but but

00:52:51.400 --> 00:52:59.320
 practitioners i call us practitioners of this this is not just about oh writing my notes in my my notebook

00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:08.520
 here got it down oh i have these all even digitally but no why don't we like we talk about labs you know

00:53:08.520 --> 00:53:14.920
 uh in in in education oh i'm going to i'm going to the lab okay that means you're going to be practicing

00:53:14.920 --> 00:53:23.960
 it putting putting it into practice so i think that is key to um active listening learning learning

00:53:25.560 --> 00:53:33.720
 how to do it and then immediately trying it out on each other right so that hey that's the place to

00:53:33.720 --> 00:53:40.200
 make all those mistakes that's the place to to keep learning in that and um sometimes people say i'm

00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:47.400
 so afraid of saying the wrong thing well then don't say anything right right i mean just listen and

00:53:47.400 --> 00:53:55.560
 like you're saying go ahead practical being out there you know seeing it model i know uh in trauma healing

00:53:56.120 --> 00:54:04.200
 we have where you can go through a group yourself and then learn how to do groups for others so let's

00:54:04.200 --> 00:54:10.120
 say you're like l i'm interested in learning more about this trauma healing we work with the american

00:54:10.120 --> 00:54:19.640
 bible society on this and uh what i think is the best part of it is then i say yeah okay it starts with

00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:26.440
 going through a healing group yourself and that's actually a part of your training to then be able

00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:33.960
 to facilitate groups so when i went in i already knew i was like yeah i i'm interested in this and i

00:54:33.960 --> 00:54:40.520
 know i'm going to want to carry it forward but i was so blessed that the first few days were just me

00:54:40.520 --> 00:54:47.160
 going through a healing group myself and receiving what i needed it's like i got a chance to put my mask

00:54:47.160 --> 00:54:53.880
 on first and then go out and try to help other people using the airplane analogy you know what i

00:54:53.880 --> 00:55:05.720
 mean and so it is it is awesome for us to be partakers first and then know how to continue it on you

00:55:05.720 --> 00:55:12.360
 know so i know at least in the trauma healing space there's opportunity for you to learn more even if

00:55:12.360 --> 00:55:19.640
 you're like i've never think i've ever had trauma now you would be able to be more trauma aware of

00:55:19.640 --> 00:55:26.200
 people around you who may be dealing with some things and you just thought they are way off sometimes

00:55:26.200 --> 00:55:33.640
 but you'll be better able to understand what's kind of like driving those things so i know we we do

00:55:33.640 --> 00:55:38.840
 have opportunities and we'll open them up we hope here in the future for you to learn more about

00:55:38.840 --> 00:55:45.080
 these things go through these things yourself and then be able to share it with others yeah i mean

00:55:45.080 --> 00:55:51.480
 there is a little bit it was funny stacy and i were talking earlier today in in a cut you know okay if

00:55:51.480 --> 00:55:58.280
 you know me i say things without like filter and i just it's off the top of my head and my mouth

00:55:58.280 --> 00:56:04.520
 gets me in trouble a lot ask every teacher i ever had in school um and and i was like yeah

00:56:04.520 --> 00:56:09.000
 i mean stacy basically we we want people to smoke what they're selling right you know to actually

00:56:09.000 --> 00:56:14.200
 do the stuff that we're you know and and and it's that face that she just made was exactly the face

00:56:14.200 --> 00:56:19.080
 that she made at me when i when i said it and i was like okay um i'll go ahead and say it just to

00:56:19.080 --> 00:56:24.840
 say it but um maybe maybe maybe i'll get in trouble so if you have any hate mail on smoke what you're

00:56:24.840 --> 00:56:32.440
 selling go and send that to stacy stacy at the church.digital she would love to have a conversation

00:56:32.440 --> 00:56:38.520
 with you centered around that but we are um you know there there's some interesting things and

00:56:38.520 --> 00:56:45.880
 we're we're wrapping up uh some of the details on this right now uh but um we're we're talking right

00:56:45.880 --> 00:56:53.240
 now with an organization based out of south africa called project exodus now uh there's lots of

00:56:53.240 --> 00:56:58.920
 different project exodus is out there i always put this disclaimer some of the project exodus organizations

00:56:58.920 --> 00:57:05.160
 are good some of the project exodus organizations are bad and chances are you're not familiar with

00:57:05.160 --> 00:57:12.680
 this one this is kind of a below the radar one uh and so what project exodus is is it's a it's an

00:57:12.680 --> 00:57:22.120
 organization that's really centered around helping um people churches in our context digital missionaries

00:57:22.680 --> 00:57:31.320
 understand how to how to uh help people that are dealing with trauma dealing with crisis uh dealing

00:57:31.320 --> 00:57:39.080
 with sexual addiction type scenarios and and one of the things that that i love about this approach

00:57:39.080 --> 00:57:47.800
 of what they do is they are very intentional towards um not just um oh you need counseling let's get

00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:54.440
 you connected to a counselor and you can pay that individual 150 you know us dollars uh uh session

00:57:55.000 --> 00:58:02.600
 um instead you know a lot of the the training that they're supplying is based around volunteers

00:58:03.160 --> 00:58:11.000
 are based around non-educated non-clinical people and and helping empower them to be

00:58:12.040 --> 00:58:20.040
 more effective um in in our context the mission work that they're doing and so we are we've been talking

00:58:20.040 --> 00:58:27.320
 with them for a while and we're excited to but maybe wrap up some uh last minute details probably the

00:58:27.320 --> 00:58:35.160
 next couple weeks if a major announcement were to be made that would likely be made at the um the town

00:58:35.160 --> 00:58:42.440
 hall meeting on may 20th hashtag just saying so stay tuned for more information about that but it's it's

00:58:42.440 --> 00:58:49.320
 really about equipping normal people to handle you know some of the initial conversations uh we've we

00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:54.360
 had a situation you know god bless this church i'm not going to say what church it was but they had

00:58:54.360 --> 00:59:00.680
 i don't know three or four suicidal situations over the span of a month and like the the the pastors were

00:59:01.480 --> 00:59:08.280
 exhausted like they could not handle any any more of it and you know as i was talking to them i was like

00:59:08.280 --> 00:59:14.280
 hey wouldn't it be great if like you had volunteers that were in position that that could help cover

00:59:14.280 --> 00:59:20.120
 some of this responsibility so that that you didn't feel like you had to carry the weight of all this on

00:59:20.120 --> 00:59:25.480
 your own oh jeff yeah that would be incredible and so this is some of the things that we're laying the

00:59:25.480 --> 00:59:32.040
 the groundwork for now you know even facilitating and training uh recovery groups you know some of some

00:59:32.040 --> 00:59:38.040
 of the stuff i want i would love el michelle to lean into you know specifically uh stuff that that

00:59:38.040 --> 00:59:47.160
 she's doing um uh with the um the the trauma recovery uh but even on how to handle other situations

00:59:47.160 --> 00:59:52.360
 uh creating but the thing that i'm most excited about is we've talked with this organization project

00:59:52.360 --> 00:59:59.880
 to exodus the idea of creating a a healthy christ-centered recovery culture uh within the the

00:59:59.880 --> 01:00:08.200
 the church digital it's so interesting to me how um you know recovery almost is like a redheaded

01:00:08.200 --> 01:00:13.960
 stepchild among some church cultures where it's like oh yeah that's those people over there we don't

01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:19.480
 we don't talk about them oh you you got an issue you just go go hang out over there instead of

01:00:19.480 --> 01:00:26.280
 embracing the fact that we all got issues at some level or or not and so y'all we're going to be

01:00:26.280 --> 01:00:32.440
 leaning into this in the in the in the months and in years to come and so look for and a

01:00:33.560 --> 01:00:41.880
 more intentional uh announcement on this soon and uh probably some beta groups even even rolling uh this

01:00:41.880 --> 01:00:52.520
 somewhere as where we are um we're excited about this road ahead and and the deeper that we get into

01:00:52.520 --> 01:00:58.680
 digital and virtual community the deeper that your ministry will get into digital and virtual community

01:00:59.240 --> 01:01:06.920
 the more necessary the more necessary the more of a necessity understanding christ-centered recovery

01:01:06.920 --> 01:01:13.960
 and how to deal with trauma and crisis is going to be you know so i was talking recently with a a

01:01:13.960 --> 01:01:19.480
 pastor friend of mine and he's like yeah jeff this is the stuff that we don't literally this is a

01:01:19.480 --> 01:01:25.640
 executive pastor at a mega church here in miami yeah jeff this is the stuff that uh we don't deal with on

01:01:25.640 --> 01:01:31.480
 sunday morning like sunday mornings it's it's not it's so stacy probably had one of my favorite quotes

01:01:31.480 --> 01:01:40.280
 of the day um and i'm gonna i'm gonna butcher it but pastoring is is to sheep what what uh what was

01:01:40.280 --> 01:01:46.200
 that what was the line stacy oh yeah give it to pastors yeah pastors tend to sheep or care for sheep

01:01:46.200 --> 01:01:54.520
 and chaplains care for goats wow and i was i was like oh my gosh because past pastors it's pretty

01:01:54.520 --> 01:02:00.440
 pastors it pastors it's easy pastors you know you get your nice system running and everything lines up

01:02:00.440 --> 01:02:08.760
 uh but you know chaplains missionaries you are much more at the edge and uh that goat goat ain't as

01:02:08.760 --> 01:02:15.480
 pretty and that goat ain't nearly as easy and that goat will kick your butt given the opportunity and

01:02:15.480 --> 01:02:22.440
 so uh yeah sit in that one enjoy that tonight pastors are anyway that's good yeah i'm not saying it's

01:02:22.440 --> 01:02:31.240
 tattoo worthy but it's it's uh it's it's up there it's close yeah that was good especially since we have

01:02:31.240 --> 01:02:39.000
 a goat culture greatest of all time yeah you know oh yeah oh wow that just took it to a whole other

01:02:39.000 --> 01:02:49.160
 level that's fascinating yeah we got so you know yeah so anyway we gotta we we it just makes me think

01:02:49.720 --> 01:02:59.240
 a lot of people can put on their sheep suits for sunday but be goats during the week like and not make you

01:02:59.240 --> 01:03:05.640
 want to be but they don't know how to be fully transformed so it's good to have all us you know

01:03:06.920 --> 01:03:13.480
 good yeah yeah well hey let's um let's talk a little bit practical because there are some hey

01:03:13.480 --> 01:03:18.360
 you know what i said there's going to be some announcements coming soon uh stacy el michelle

01:03:18.360 --> 01:03:24.440
 others behind the scenes are aggressively um working uh towards some solutions you're going to be here

01:03:24.440 --> 01:03:29.800
 more about this in in the days and weeks to come uh but there is something that that we're working on

01:03:29.800 --> 01:03:35.960
 right now that that's going to help and there it's already in place but we're going to kind of publicly

01:03:35.960 --> 01:03:42.760
 launch this thing or or kind of fine-tune it a little bit today and and i'm talking about in our

01:03:42.760 --> 01:03:51.000
 discord and in our whatsapp communities we've got a a channel or a group called um missionary care

01:03:51.000 --> 01:03:58.120
 right missionary care and and so um stacy do you want to talk a little bit about what what we want

01:03:58.120 --> 01:04:05.320
 to see and what the aim of that missionary care is yeah that's good yeah yeah the the aim is so it's a

01:04:05.320 --> 01:04:15.400
 community um but it's a way for actually us to practice not fixing people it is where we are

01:04:15.400 --> 01:04:21.960
 listening to what people post or what i post even any of us that those of us that are serving in the

01:04:21.960 --> 01:04:31.240
 digital space that maybe there's a challenge um and it's not so much about how do i do this but it is

01:04:31.240 --> 01:04:39.400
 how do i i need i need care right what i'm thinking so it's it's almost like those of us

01:04:39.960 --> 01:04:47.400
 that are reading them we can practice our listening skills in that it's not quick to respond well have

01:04:47.400 --> 01:04:54.360
 you heard of this ministry have you been a part of this group or things like that it is it is being

01:04:54.360 --> 01:05:01.880
 present to someone so um so if someone says their loved one uh just died and they're just heartbroken

01:05:02.680 --> 01:05:08.360
 and they post that and in the missionary care well you know what how about just a response to say

01:05:08.920 --> 01:05:16.520
 i'm sorry that sounds really heavy i'm praying for you or even post the prayer in response to that

01:05:16.520 --> 01:05:23.960
 sometimes i'm literally writing typing out my prayer and it the prayer itself is just a prayer of support

01:05:24.600 --> 01:05:34.360
 not to say uh um lord i pray that this person um goes to this group or have you heard of this group you

01:05:34.360 --> 01:05:40.840
 know those kind of things that because that's that is a step to try to fix someone's pain

01:05:41.880 --> 01:05:49.480
 and heaviness of what's weighing on them so uh yes yes there may be opportunities for that if you

01:05:49.480 --> 01:05:56.040
 feel like god's leading you to to say something else that that maybe it's a direct message you know that

01:05:56.040 --> 01:06:04.760
 that the community itself really is to be supportive of someone and whatever they're they're experiencing

01:06:04.760 --> 01:06:13.880
 um it is not about us to give them um all these resources there may be a time for that later maybe

01:06:13.880 --> 01:06:21.080
 personally and personal if you have relational equity with someone that that may you may be able to it

01:06:21.080 --> 01:06:26.360
 might be appropriate to send a private message to them but if it's someone you don't know i mean how

01:06:26.360 --> 01:06:33.080
 many people jeff what's that how many people are in the whatsapp and discord uh i mean we've got

01:06:33.080 --> 01:06:41.240
 we've got over 600 maybe close to 700 in discord maybe 400 almost 500 in whatsapp i mean there's

01:06:41.240 --> 01:06:48.680
 some overlap but we've got a significant number of missionaries um in in both aspects and and so

01:06:48.680 --> 01:06:57.960
 um l michelle will be hanging out in discord and uh and stacy will be primarily focused in in whatsapp and

01:06:57.960 --> 01:07:06.040
 uh now it was so funny it was initially the plan was leighton is is giving me discord is 670 right now

01:07:06.040 --> 01:07:13.320
 so yeah we're very close to 700 there last i saw whatsapp whatsapp was 452 i think and so it's and

01:07:13.320 --> 01:07:17.480
 it's been been growing actually we've been kicking a bunch of spam bots out so it may actually be down

01:07:18.120 --> 01:07:24.280
 but uh it's hard it's hard to tell in whatsapp whatsapp's being whatsapp the um but what was

01:07:24.280 --> 01:07:32.840
 interesting was is that um whatsapp was i thought gonna be primarily global and and there is a lot of

01:07:32.840 --> 01:07:40.680
 global in there but there's a lot of us influence in in whatsapp and also at the same time we're starting

01:07:40.680 --> 01:07:47.480
 to see a separation of the two communities where initially when we launched whatsapp it was both

01:07:48.120 --> 01:07:55.480
 it was people in whatsapp and discord at the same time and now we're seeing distinct users in whatsapp

01:07:55.480 --> 01:08:01.640
 completely separate from the people that are in discord it's not like people are double populating

01:08:01.640 --> 01:08:06.120
 or double existing in the communities they're picking one because that's the goal like i don't i

01:08:06.120 --> 01:08:11.480
 don't want you to feel like you're having to carry the burden of being in both but the people that will

01:08:11.480 --> 01:08:17.720
 hang out in discord are not the people that want to hang out in whatsapp or vice versa almost it's it's

01:08:17.720 --> 01:08:25.160
 two really completely different platforms um but our our goal is is to start to create an asynchronous

01:08:25.160 --> 01:08:34.120
 community that would allow for um you freedom to to post some of some of these thoughts yeah okay now you

01:08:34.120 --> 01:08:41.800
 can you know post uh prayer requests but oftentimes what you would pray for and you know something

01:08:41.800 --> 01:08:48.040
 missionary where it's open to yourself it's it's two different things and so we didn't want just to

01:08:48.040 --> 01:08:54.040
 isolate missionary prayer into prayer requests as much as to highlight it as something else and then

01:08:54.040 --> 01:09:00.440
 there's you know down the road there's going to be much more that we're going to get into as the

01:09:00.440 --> 01:09:08.840
 church digital continues to develop uh more equipping partners um develop uh what mobilization looks like

01:09:08.840 --> 01:09:14.680
 as our outposts develop and move forward and so we're really excited about what the future holds

01:09:14.680 --> 01:09:23.240
 uh for our our digital missionaries at a global scale but uh what you're seeing now is is literally

01:09:23.240 --> 01:09:33.400
 those first steps in creating a healthy culture uh because i i i don't know much uh but i know that

01:09:33.400 --> 01:09:41.880
 culture eats strategy for breakfast and i would rather have have a healthy uh as a as a as a strategist

01:09:41.880 --> 01:09:48.040
 i would rather have a healthy culture than uh a kicking strategy and so we're gonna we're gonna take this

01:09:48.040 --> 01:09:57.000
 time now to start to build that that culture out um well recognizing uh the importance of of of

01:09:57.000 --> 01:10:04.920
 recovery of active listening of recognizing trauma and crisis and all of these things because it's just

01:10:04.920 --> 01:10:11.320
 going to get more and more in this situation barna rolled out uh and i'll close with this but barna rolled

01:10:11.320 --> 01:10:21.000
 out a stat um crap just like you uh l michelle i'm blanking on numbers right now but it was uh the the

01:10:21.000 --> 01:10:29.000
 punchline to the stat was that gen a and gen z there's a small little uptick where gen a and gen z

01:10:29.000 --> 01:10:39.160
 is starting to re-engage in spirituality and is coming back to god and is starting to see jesus and look for

01:10:39.160 --> 01:10:46.840
 jesus more than they had in previous years but what was interesting in that equation is that they are

01:10:46.840 --> 01:10:56.440
 not they are not going to church buildings and so the the generation has a small little uptick

01:10:57.000 --> 01:11:05.000
 uh but the the brick and mortar buildings flatlined or even down in some of the categories and the the

01:11:05.000 --> 01:11:10.760
 the the takeaway from this is um actually steve was blowing me up on i think whatsapp because he's

01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:15.400
 like well doesn't that mean that digital missionaries this is our time yes that is what

01:11:15.400 --> 01:11:20.120
 that means is that digital missionaries doing something different to reach someone different

01:11:20.120 --> 01:11:26.840
 there's now an opportunity digitally to engage to reach that and so understanding some of this this

01:11:26.840 --> 01:11:34.520
 healthy approaches uh is going to make us far more able to to connect and engage uh with

01:11:34.520 --> 01:11:41.640
 that which is why that culture is is so important and so ladies thank you very much for for the stream

01:11:41.640 --> 01:11:47.400
 here um no i i love it l michelle as as we're wrapping up any closing thoughts on your side

01:11:48.520 --> 01:11:56.200
 um i'm glad we're here i'm glad we're here i'm glad that we took this time to listen to each other glad

01:11:56.200 --> 01:12:06.760
 everybody who's on the feed is on the feed um and really big goal for me or big ask or big prayer big

01:12:06.760 --> 01:12:16.440
 want would be for missionary care to become a part of everyone's mission or thought process just a little

01:12:16.440 --> 01:12:23.240
 bit you know as we're interacting not just like yeah go over there or like the pastor said we don't

01:12:23.240 --> 01:12:31.240
 really deal with that on sunday but having a heart to deal with it on whatever day you know in in a way

01:12:31.240 --> 01:12:37.480
 incorporating this in some way active listening doesn't have to have a ministry name on it it's

01:12:37.480 --> 01:12:44.680
 just being a human being who empathizes with the people around them and recognizing people not as

01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:54.840
 the machines that we operate with with our expertise but seeing people as the people behind it you know and

01:12:54.840 --> 01:13:02.440
 just being cognizant of that that that would be my big prayer that this would become a part of

01:13:02.440 --> 01:13:08.920
 everyone's thinking even if it's just a little bit that have to be what you do all the time but just

01:13:09.720 --> 01:13:16.440
 now taking a step back and maybe listening a little bit more which is why i know i could keep talking on

01:13:16.440 --> 01:13:21.640
 and on because no one's going to want to cut me off because we're active listening right now no but

01:13:21.640 --> 01:13:27.240
 seriously yeah you may be taking advantage of the process we're trying to wrap up but we're not

01:13:27.240 --> 01:13:35.880
 going to rush her because we're listening to her but no seriously just trying to um not be numb to it

01:13:35.880 --> 01:13:44.680
 anymore but being more awake to the fact that if someone is in your presence it really is for a reason

01:13:45.480 --> 01:13:53.320
 so kind of giving into that a little bit more than our own agendas and things like that but that's it

01:13:53.320 --> 01:13:59.480
 that's all i would say as a final word we hope that we will inspire everyone to walk in these ways

01:14:00.120 --> 01:14:08.680
 love it uh stacy any any closing thoughts on yourself sure yeah the invitation i have is inviting

01:14:09.240 --> 01:14:17.640
 god to speak to you and listen how to be a minister of presence that is really essentially what chaplain

01:14:17.640 --> 01:14:25.720
 and say chaplain yes i have that title but no as as messengers of god's love and care

01:14:26.760 --> 01:14:35.320
 it is about being present being a minister of presence and so i that my invitation to you is pray about that

01:14:36.200 --> 01:14:44.680
 how can you be present for others um in whatever they're facing and then just a practical real

01:14:44.680 --> 01:14:55.000
 practical thing about listening more than talking um my mentor shout out to uh to gail j yandel my mentor

01:14:55.000 --> 01:14:59.880
 top of mentor she said some people just do this when they're listening you know like you can't see it but

01:14:59.880 --> 01:15:08.200
 you know putting your just your one one finger over your mouth when you're listening to someone it literally

01:15:08.200 --> 01:15:17.320
 keeps you from talking and i thought wow that is super practical you know or or something that's just

01:15:17.320 --> 01:15:26.280
 gonna prevent me from talking but really focused on listening to someone um so that i don't fall into the

01:15:26.280 --> 01:15:33.640
 temptation to speak when someone is just trying to be heard and expressing themselves because that's

01:15:33.640 --> 01:15:39.080
 what it is people want to be seen heard and understood that's that's so cool just kind of

01:15:40.520 --> 01:15:47.000
 yes i'm deep in thought okay i'm i'm pensive i'm listening i always i've always thought this meant

01:15:47.000 --> 01:15:52.280
 you're hiding something you know it's like that that was that was like that was like the 20 30 years ago

01:15:52.280 --> 01:15:56.840
 right it's the it's if you're doing something it's it's like you're you're hiding what are you hiding

01:15:56.840 --> 01:16:01.720
 something it's like the body language for that but which is why i i kind of do this i'm standing and

01:16:01.720 --> 01:16:05.800
 so i kind of like you know put my arms this way but it's like now i look like i'm ticked off and

01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:11.960
 which i'm not and so i've kind of trying to figure that out but uh very very good it's interesting gail

01:16:11.960 --> 01:16:17.240
 we'll uh we'll give that a shot a little bit and uh you know el michelle just wanted to make sure

01:16:17.960 --> 01:16:23.240
 you you got that you got that down yeah very good and she she pulls that off so much better than i

01:16:23.240 --> 01:16:29.960
 does that's that's so good yes cool yeah yeah so so much cooler cool i'm just a bald dork with a

01:16:29.960 --> 01:16:36.120
 beard like she she has you both y'all got to look all right hey we're gonna we're gonna wrap uh it's

01:16:36.120 --> 01:16:41.720
 so funny my andy keeps texting me i'm i'm three minutes late for a meeting with him and so i gotta go

01:16:41.720 --> 01:16:48.200
 we're gonna land a plane for for stacy for el michelle this is uh jeff at the church digital

01:16:48.200 --> 01:16:53.800
 find both of them in whatsapp and discord for any uh more questions with them and tcds uh

01:16:53.800 --> 01:16:59.000
 whatsapp and discord they love to connect with you and uh but hey more coming soon don't forget about

01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:06.520
 the town hall may 20th thanks y'all have a good one talk to you later thanks bye bye thank you