WEBVTT 00:00:00.700 --> 00:00:14.400 All right. Hey, it's episode 341. I think I've been on vacation. I was I was fishing in a flat fishing on a creek like 48 hours ago. 00:00:14.500 --> 00:00:20.660 So I'm not actually sure where I am right now. Monday was a 17 hour travel day. 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:30.160 I didn't think I think it was a quicker trip for me to fly to Korea than it was for me to get to Billings, Montana and back. 00:00:30.420 --> 00:00:41.240 Actually, it was no Billings, Montana's where I landed. And then we drove to Hyattville, Wyoming, population 78. 00:00:41.660 --> 00:00:48.620 OK, like I'm all about small town America, not wanting to be like negative towards that at all. 00:00:49.040 --> 00:00:54.860 I want to get lost in a town as well at some point in my life and just like, you know, disappear. 00:00:55.640 --> 00:01:02.660 I need a little more. I need a little more than than 78 population in that town. 00:01:02.760 --> 00:01:05.300 What was interesting, fascinating story. You don't care. 00:01:06.240 --> 00:01:09.580 This small town of 78 people, literally population 78. 00:01:10.940 --> 00:01:12.500 Had four different restaurants. 00:01:14.380 --> 00:01:17.660 Four different restaurants in a small town of 78. 00:01:18.200 --> 00:01:21.500 If there's only 78 people, why do you need four different restaurants? 00:01:21.740 --> 00:01:24.360 Like, how often do people go out to eat? 00:01:24.620 --> 00:01:26.900 I would think that would be a conflict. 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:27.840 I'm just saying. 00:01:28.460 --> 00:01:30.440 But we really we had an awesome time. 00:01:30.640 --> 00:01:38.380 A couple of the TCD board members, Jesse Carbo, a lot of, you know, Charlie Barham as well. 00:01:38.660 --> 00:01:39.740 They kidnapped me. 00:01:39.980 --> 00:01:46.680 I have not been fishing in 30 years and they grabbed me and took me up literally upstream. 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:56.180 It was a great time of just talking and hanging out and getting to meet some other pastors and some other people in life. 00:01:56.400 --> 00:01:58.960 And it was just it was a really incredible opportunity. 00:01:58.960 --> 00:02:00.380 So appreciative for that. 00:02:00.440 --> 00:02:10.560 But hey, it's going to be back sleeping in my own bed, taking a nice warm shower and and loving loving life. 00:02:10.600 --> 00:02:15.540 Although it's it is rainy and dreary outside in Miami today, which is which is a whole other thing. 00:02:16.000 --> 00:02:19.400 My pool, this is not something I want to broadcast, but hey, you know what? 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:22.460 My pool is black like it is. 00:02:22.540 --> 00:02:25.440 It is so like dirty, whatever. 00:02:25.960 --> 00:02:28.700 We've kind of like a leak and there's a problem with the pump or whatever. 00:02:29.220 --> 00:02:32.520 And like the sun will not pierce. 00:02:32.860 --> 00:02:34.300 There's so much crap in there. 00:02:34.380 --> 00:02:37.380 The sun will not pierce the water to get what was inside. 00:02:37.540 --> 00:02:39.180 So what are you going to do? 00:02:39.720 --> 00:02:40.460 Welcome to Miami. 00:02:40.580 --> 00:02:42.580 Hey, it's welcome to come down anytime you want. 00:02:42.640 --> 00:02:44.160 But hey, listen, 341. 00:02:44.260 --> 00:02:45.740 I've been vamping enough. 00:02:45.940 --> 00:02:48.600 Some really cool stuff coming up here with the Church Digital. 00:02:48.700 --> 00:02:50.980 Some exciting things coming very soon. 00:02:51.060 --> 00:02:51.520 But stay tuned. 00:02:51.520 --> 00:02:56.340 But today, today we're kicking off a new new podcast season. 00:02:56.460 --> 00:02:58.020 I've lost track of the podcast seasons. 00:02:58.140 --> 00:03:01.400 Maybe this is podcast season 12, 13, 29. 00:03:01.700 --> 00:03:02.320 Who really knows? 00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:08.380 But the heart of this is we want to get into starting to talk about maybe some of some of the partners, 00:03:08.920 --> 00:03:18.300 some of the opportunities that are willing to come alongside some of the tools that are wanting to help you in your digital missionary work. 00:03:18.300 --> 00:03:20.800 And so we're we're talking about these tools. 00:03:20.980 --> 00:03:30.040 We're talking about these these equipping partners and these empowering tools to help you take some and some intentional steps towards this. 00:03:30.100 --> 00:03:34.040 And for the conversation today, we're bringing into into the call. 00:03:34.220 --> 00:03:39.940 Lucas Pulley, my friend Lucas Pulley from here in here in Florida. 00:03:40.240 --> 00:03:45.040 It feels like there's a lot of Florida people that do like unconventional work. 00:03:45.120 --> 00:03:47.480 Lucas, we have to go for it in a little bit. 00:03:47.480 --> 00:03:51.980 But but but Lucas is with Underground Network. 00:03:52.380 --> 00:03:56.540 Now, Lucas, I lied like you're you're not going to be with us here in Florida anymore. 00:03:56.540 --> 00:04:04.640 So like you're our friendship has an expiration date, I'm afraid, because, you know, when you're out of Florida, you're dead to me, right? 00:04:04.780 --> 00:04:05.700 I'm dead to you. 00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:06.080 Yes. 00:04:06.300 --> 00:04:06.660 Yes. 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:07.180 Yes. 00:04:07.400 --> 00:04:08.780 When are you when are you moving? 00:04:08.880 --> 00:04:09.400 When are you leaving? 00:04:09.600 --> 00:04:18.500 At the end of July, I am moving up to the southern half of the state of Illinois, not terribly far from St. Louis. 00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:23.220 We're going to I'm still going to have my same role with Underground. 00:04:23.220 --> 00:04:27.400 I'm still going to be, you know, sitting on the executive team with Underground Network. 00:04:27.400 --> 00:04:35.400 And most of what I've been doing over the last, you know, 12 to 15 months has been stuff outside of Tampa. 00:04:35.400 --> 00:04:54.100 It's been coaching, training, consulting, immersion visits with Underground friends and sister movements around the world, including this, you know, roundtable of getting close to 30 sister movements of the Underground in country and out of country. 00:04:54.300 --> 00:05:19.340 And if I can park right in the middle of the southern half of the state of Illinois, I'll be within a three and a half, four hour drive radius of emerging Underground networks, you know, networks of microchurches that are friends of ours in St. Louis, Champaign, Chicago, Indianapolis, Evansville, Nashville, Memphis, Chattanooga, you know, all over the place. 00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:25.620 So it's just a sort of a strategic place for us to land, to be practitioners in a small town and to still serve the Underground. 00:05:25.940 --> 00:05:29.860 But I'm going to be what you just came back from on vacation. 00:05:29.860 --> 00:05:33.080 I'm going to be in like a small town on the set of a Hallmark movie. 00:05:33.080 --> 00:05:38.060 I'm going to be trying to save a bakery from from becoming a parking lot. 00:05:38.560 --> 00:05:45.200 And Santa's probably going to be working it, you know, somehow it's what you just came back from on vacation. 00:05:45.460 --> 00:05:48.620 So I'm glad you made it back from the set of a Hallmark movie. 00:05:49.340 --> 00:05:51.620 And I'm trading I'm trading places with you. 00:05:51.720 --> 00:05:52.500 I'm heading there. 00:05:53.020 --> 00:05:56.160 I mean, it's it's it really was a fun place to be. 00:05:56.160 --> 00:06:08.460 Um, in my particular situation, I was on a dude ranch where there were 57 stairs, 57 stairs separating my bed from the toilet. 00:06:08.860 --> 00:06:15.680 I don't know, I don't know, your Apple, your Apple watch fitness tracker was just going nuts for three. 00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:21.960 I got my flights of stairs count. 00:06:25.460 --> 00:06:27.360 Oh, man, we can talk about that all day. 00:06:27.460 --> 00:06:28.600 I want to ask this. 00:06:28.740 --> 00:06:29.140 I did. 00:06:29.240 --> 00:06:30.220 We're going to get into something. 00:06:30.400 --> 00:06:32.040 But you just hearing you talk about this. 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:35.240 So there's 30 some you're calling them sister movements. 00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:39.420 Now, let's let's let's let's get back in the way back machine. 00:06:39.520 --> 00:06:41.840 I'll tell I want you to tell me how far back we go. 00:06:41.840 --> 00:06:55.720 But like at some point, you Tampa Underground, like it was you and Rob with Casey Underground, like there were not a lot of these micro church movements, at least here in the U.S. 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.920 And and now we're seeing a resurgence a little bit. 00:06:58.980 --> 00:06:59.980 We're seeing it explode. 00:06:59.980 --> 00:07:03.180 But, you know, walk me maybe through some of that transition a little bit. 00:07:04.080 --> 00:07:04.200 Yeah. 00:07:04.340 --> 00:07:10.780 So, you know, the Tampa Underground community, the roots of that community started in the late 90s. 00:07:11.100 --> 00:07:14.420 And so our community is almost 30 years old in Tampa. 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:22.140 And it, you know, became like a formal entity, like launched as a formal entity in 2006, 2007, around then. 00:07:22.400 --> 00:07:25.260 And at that time, I was actually up in Illinois. 00:07:25.720 --> 00:07:28.520 I was part of the origin story of the Tampa network. 00:07:28.780 --> 00:07:32.860 But up in Illinois, I had in a college town outside of St. 00:07:32.940 --> 00:07:36.380 Louis, I had stumbled into leading a network of micro churches up there. 00:07:36.540 --> 00:07:39.280 And around 2010, we were asking we needed help. 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:41.920 I mean, we just we needed learning. 00:07:42.020 --> 00:07:42.700 We needed mentorship. 00:07:43.300 --> 00:07:47.040 And so I got connected with the Tampa Underground crew around 2010. 00:07:49.060 --> 00:07:52.540 And our community and I stayed in Illinois until 2016. 00:07:53.180 --> 00:08:00.460 But our network of micro churches up in Illinois became one of the earliest sister movements of Underground Network. 00:08:00.580 --> 00:08:04.060 And at the time, there was a sister movement in Haiti. 00:08:04.260 --> 00:08:06.360 There was one in Hamburg, Germany. 00:08:06.500 --> 00:08:08.600 There was one in Manila, Philippines. 00:08:09.320 --> 00:08:12.660 And and then there there was what we were doing. 00:08:12.660 --> 00:08:15.000 And there was one in Birmingham, Alabama. 00:08:16.160 --> 00:08:24.480 And and yeah, over time, you know, fast forward now, you know, we've got getting close to 30 sister networks. 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:34.200 But for us, for the Tampa community, growing a growing a network of sister movements has never really been the goal. 00:08:34.420 --> 00:08:39.160 It's we've never felt like we've never felt like that's the mandate or the assignment from the Lord for us. 00:08:40.160 --> 00:08:53.660 So our we feel like our mandate is to just come alongside leaders and teams that are trying to see a decentralized network of the priesthood of all believers activated in their city, regardless of how close they want to be with us. 00:08:55.000 --> 00:08:56.840 So we're just that's the goal. 00:08:56.920 --> 00:08:57.540 That's the bullseye. 00:08:57.540 --> 00:09:08.500 So so we've we've got twenty five hundred, you know, leaders and teams that we have walked with in training and coaching and consulting environments. 00:09:08.500 --> 00:09:09.500 They visit us. 00:09:09.560 --> 00:09:10.360 We visit them. 00:09:10.460 --> 00:09:12.280 We just sort of react to their level of need. 00:09:12.780 --> 00:09:14.380 And that's the bullseye for us. 00:09:14.380 --> 00:09:24.080 And the network of sister movements is a group of people who have basically said what we need is like a close, you know, fellowship of the ring. 00:09:24.380 --> 00:09:34.920 You know, we need we need like we need like a crew of people who are really trying to go after this in a way that overlaps quite a bit in terms of values and principles. 00:09:36.520 --> 00:09:41.900 And so that's the the network of sister movements is sort of a thing that that is offered. 00:09:42.160 --> 00:09:46.500 It's available for people that like really, really want to get close, but we don't see it. 00:09:46.540 --> 00:09:48.000 We're not trying to push people toward it. 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:49.600 We're not trying to sell people toward it. 00:09:49.660 --> 00:09:51.160 We're not trying to recruit people toward it. 00:09:52.300 --> 00:09:54.440 And so sorry, somebody's trying to make me. 00:09:55.200 --> 00:09:56.080 They're succeeding. 00:09:58.160 --> 00:09:59.340 Somebody in the office. 00:10:02.180 --> 00:10:06.460 So, yeah, so the sister movements are all called different things. 00:10:06.620 --> 00:10:08.980 Us and Casey are the only ones that have the underground name. 00:10:09.500 --> 00:10:09.600 Right. 00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:21.980 And but most of the other ones are like Wildfire Network in San Antonio, Table Network, Indianapolis, Undercurrent Network, Chicago, Catalyst Network, Portland. 00:10:22.300 --> 00:10:24.520 And then we've still got some around the world, too. 00:10:25.560 --> 00:10:28.900 And we connect with each other on some Zoom calls throughout the year. 00:10:28.980 --> 00:10:39.720 We try to see each other in person and we try to be there's no it's important to say there's no sort of broad like international organization that contains that there. 00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:43.460 The underground network is still just in Tampa. 00:10:45.100 --> 00:10:49.280 We haven't created like an international scope network to sort of contain all that. 00:10:49.280 --> 00:10:50.780 Nobody, nobody leads it. 00:10:51.680 --> 00:10:52.700 Nobody runs it. 00:10:52.780 --> 00:10:54.040 Nobody's nobody works for it. 00:10:54.740 --> 00:11:03.020 I just happen to coordinate it, but I'm just one of the network directors in peer to peer fellowship with the others. 00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:08.380 So, yeah, this is we're going to get into some digital stuff here in a little bit. 00:11:08.500 --> 00:11:11.020 But decentralized, distributed, digital, micro. 00:11:11.320 --> 00:11:11.600 Yes. 00:11:11.680 --> 00:11:14.680 Like there and even even at the network level. 00:11:14.800 --> 00:11:17.640 So you've got these close to 30. 00:11:18.100 --> 00:11:21.860 You know, you're relocating away from Tampa, maybe closer to home, Illinois. 00:11:21.860 --> 00:11:25.360 You're rattling off a bunch of these these these these names. 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:35.960 And even outside of your circle, 30, there there is definitely is there is a there's a coming back to the the the micro, the home church. 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:57.720 How does that as you're watching this, like how do you feel knowing that that you're you're part of a of a larger movement or a reengaging using, you know, people recognizing different ways to reach different people and discipleship looks differently than just in the in the big buildings. 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:00.500 How is that how is that how do you sleep at night? 00:12:01.040 --> 00:12:02.640 Yeah, I mean, we sleep really good. 00:12:02.640 --> 00:12:23.780 I think it's really I think it's really humbling that apart from any one of these networks or tribes having like a dominant amount of influence or trying to push or sell or strive or influence. 00:12:24.820 --> 00:12:30.480 It's not nobody's really trying to like, I don't know, push or dominate the market. 00:12:30.480 --> 00:12:42.100 It's it's actually like the winds of the spirit are blowing and people everywhere across the country, across continents, globally, in every type of context. 00:12:42.100 --> 00:12:49.820 Every type of people group are all sort of waking up to a thing that God is saying and doing and we're just finding each other. 00:12:50.760 --> 00:12:56.640 So I think that's the thing that's like really encouraging is that his yoke is easy as burdens light. 00:12:56.760 --> 00:13:02.140 It's not like it's not like it's nobody's trying to like persuade the church to change. 00:13:02.140 --> 00:13:05.680 You know, it's like we're we're we're we're non anxious. 00:13:06.040 --> 00:13:17.180 We're we're just sort of trying to put our head into the ground in our own incarnational neighborhood and city and just try to make disciples and see the church emerge and serve networks. 00:13:17.800 --> 00:13:28.160 But we're finding people in cities all over the country that are like we're using the same frameworks or language or we're wrestling with the same principles without knowing each other. 00:13:29.300 --> 00:13:32.900 And it's just happening all over the place. 00:13:33.240 --> 00:13:38.800 And so that's what makes us feel like this is just something that God is doing and he's been doing it for quite a while. 00:13:39.220 --> 00:13:40.880 And it's not new. 00:13:40.940 --> 00:13:41.760 None of this stuff is new. 00:13:42.040 --> 00:13:45.020 Like you said, it's not a discovery. 00:13:45.260 --> 00:13:46.020 It's not innovative. 00:13:46.520 --> 00:13:48.280 It's not a discovery of something new. 00:13:48.380 --> 00:13:52.120 It's like a recovery of something old, something ancient. 00:13:54.160 --> 00:14:00.940 And, you know, it's just been a really a thrill ride for us to just find friends all over the place. 00:14:02.240 --> 00:14:12.120 I have I've always you know, Lucas, you and I've had this conversation, but I've I've always I'm like a micro church pastor in a digital pastor. 00:14:12.840 --> 00:14:15.800 Yeah, you know, it's it's just the similarities. 00:14:15.800 --> 00:14:23.160 And we've really we've tried to run the church digital now as we're setting up the outposts and, you know, even more of the equipping. 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:35.960 Like we're we're trying to do to set up these these these networks and hubs, empowering people to to do the the ministry God's calling them to do. 00:14:36.140 --> 00:14:40.800 And I'll be honest, like part of me looks at what you guys are going through now. 00:14:41.280 --> 00:14:48.220 And I hope I pray that that's what TCD looks like in 10 years and five years and 15 years, whatever. 00:14:49.060 --> 00:14:50.420 You know, I mean, sure. 00:14:50.600 --> 00:14:57.400 In the 1970s may have been the pinnacle of like the house movement with the Jesus movement, Jesus people. 00:14:57.560 --> 00:14:59.600 Yeah, Jesus people and all that. 00:15:00.360 --> 00:15:01.960 And then and then it was weird. 00:15:01.960 --> 00:15:07.660 And then they were like the ones that were like the the rebels and trying to take down the church by doing their own thing. 00:15:07.800 --> 00:15:08.880 I'm paraphrasing. 00:15:09.020 --> 00:15:09.860 Don't don't judge. 00:15:09.940 --> 00:15:10.460 Don't at me. 00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:10.580 Yeah. 00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:19.400 But what you know, what came out of that, I think, is is is a is a pure idea that's that's now operating cleanly and moving forward. 00:15:19.780 --> 00:15:26.480 And, you know, we're we're still a little controversial over here on the digital side in some some ways. 00:15:26.480 --> 00:15:40.780 But but hopefully I think I think in I think in 15 years, Netflix will do like a lot of live action telling movie made made for made for TV event telling the story of digital churches. 00:15:40.780 --> 00:15:43.520 You know, the Jesus revolution. 00:15:43.740 --> 00:15:44.480 Yeah, that's right. 00:15:44.480 --> 00:15:50.160 I think that's the obvious choice. 00:15:50.300 --> 00:15:52.420 I mean, the first thing that came to my mind. 00:15:53.300 --> 00:15:55.000 So so I'm on this retreat. 00:15:55.160 --> 00:15:56.200 Listen, I'm 47. 00:15:56.540 --> 00:15:58.060 OK, I'll add my age here. 00:15:58.100 --> 00:15:58.800 I'm 47. 00:15:59.460 --> 00:16:00.820 Jesse Carbo is 50. 00:16:00.900 --> 00:16:01.840 You know, Jesse, don't you? 00:16:01.880 --> 00:16:03.140 I just talked to him last week. 00:16:03.220 --> 00:16:04.040 I just that's awesome. 00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:04.680 Yeah. 00:16:04.780 --> 00:16:06.240 So, Luke, Jesse was with me. 00:16:06.280 --> 00:16:06.960 He's 50. 00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.680 And Charlie, who's the chair, is 62. 00:16:10.260 --> 00:16:16.160 And of the three of us, the everyone else on the retreat was convinced I was the oldest. 00:16:17.260 --> 00:16:21.180 I'm like, I'm 15 years younger than the old guy. 00:16:21.340 --> 00:16:24.380 And you think because they're like, oh, it's all it's the white and the beard. 00:16:24.380 --> 00:16:25.200 Jeff, it's the wisdom. 00:16:25.700 --> 00:16:27.740 Jeff, it's the wisdom that you deliver. 00:16:28.080 --> 00:16:28.840 It's the wisdom. 00:16:29.440 --> 00:16:36.640 I hope and not the decrepit way this old guy walks up the stairs or it's got nothing to do. 00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:39.160 It's got nothing to do with the tripping up the stairs. 00:16:39.380 --> 00:16:40.340 It's the wisdom. 00:16:40.860 --> 00:16:41.760 It's the wisdom. 00:16:43.320 --> 00:16:44.420 Oh, my gosh. 00:16:44.540 --> 00:16:44.840 All right. 00:16:44.940 --> 00:16:48.900 So, hey, listen, Lucas, I follow him on Facebook. 00:16:49.260 --> 00:16:53.500 And every once in a while, he just does a shout out. 00:16:53.900 --> 00:16:56.320 Hey, I'm fixing to do a webinar. 00:16:56.940 --> 00:17:08.440 If you're curious on how Underground Network does data and collects data, like, we would love to just do a training and talk with you and just share some of our learnings. 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:14.760 And as I'm looking on the outside, it's almost like you guys are doing a series of webinars and learnings, which I love. 00:17:14.860 --> 00:17:16.340 We'll get to that here in a little bit. 00:17:16.560 --> 00:17:19.840 But, you know, I think it's so funny. 00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:30.040 I was telling Lucas earlier, data is something that, as digital people, we should really have easy understanding and access to. 00:17:30.760 --> 00:17:43.920 But for whatever reason, I think a lot of our ministries are so new and so green that we really haven't gotten to the place of understanding what we're tracking or how we're tracking or the importance of it. 00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:45.240 I think it's funny. 00:17:45.740 --> 00:17:47.660 And there's no judgment here, people. 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:49.140 I mean, it's a slight judgment. 00:17:49.620 --> 00:17:51.160 But I threw in one of the communities. 00:17:51.280 --> 00:17:53.460 I was like, hey, how do you guys track data? 00:17:54.260 --> 00:17:57.960 And the number one answer of the people when I was like, how do you track data? 00:17:57.960 --> 00:18:00.260 The number one answer was, oh, on my phone. 00:18:00.900 --> 00:18:02.480 And I was like, oh, we got it. 00:18:02.500 --> 00:18:14.420 We got to do something better than just like, you know, it's, oh, I just I pull an email address out of my out of my my phone book or, you know, because that puts you as the lid. 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:15.360 It puts you as the limit. 00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:18.360 And now other people don't don't have your learnings. 00:18:18.400 --> 00:18:20.560 And so data is going to be so important. 00:18:20.560 --> 00:18:20.880 It's going to bottleneck it. 00:18:21.340 --> 00:18:22.060 Oh, my gosh. 00:18:22.060 --> 00:18:22.440 Yes. 00:18:22.940 --> 00:18:28.240 And so the desire to to maybe to learn a little bit from our microchurch brothers. 00:18:29.040 --> 00:18:31.920 OK, what what exactly like what are you tracking? 00:18:32.100 --> 00:18:33.140 What are you looking at? 00:18:33.480 --> 00:18:34.560 How are you tracking? 00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:45.200 You know, the one thing that I've always loved about Tampa Underground is is that they are of all of the of all of the microchurch networks that I've seen. 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:52.840 They are doing the most bang with the littlest buck like these guys know how to stretch it. 00:18:53.160 --> 00:19:02.540 And, you know, I don't want to say it's a point of pride for you, but man, like I've seen some incredible things on like, you know, ball of twine and duct tape. 00:19:02.820 --> 00:19:11.240 And so, you know, when he was telling me some of the ways that he's collecting data and some of the systems, I was like, oh, my gosh, we've got to talk about this at a larger level. 00:19:11.600 --> 00:19:21.240 And so, Lucas, let me just like open it up when I say when you say tracking data, like what what what metrics are you looking at? 00:19:21.300 --> 00:19:23.680 How are you collecting it? 00:19:23.720 --> 00:19:33.560 Like what what are some maybe numbers that as we're doing ministry, we should start to think as digital people, we should start to be tracing on those tracking that as well. 00:19:35.460 --> 00:19:47.520 Yeah, so I think over time, there's there's probably been, I don't know, three or four categories of data that we've we've learned that we need to track. 00:19:47.660 --> 00:19:52.760 And a lot of times you you figure out you need to track it at a moment when you need it and you don't have it. 00:19:53.540 --> 00:20:05.080 And then you're and then you're behind the ball because you can't actually you can't operationalize the thing you need, you know, you need to do because you've got to do all the forward work of trying to collect the data you need. 00:20:05.080 --> 00:20:14.400 And so I would just say generally the domains that we it's not just it's we do track some numbers, which is just sort of like health of the network, state of the network. 00:20:15.400 --> 00:20:22.520 And and so I think there's probably four main numbers that we track that are averages per microchurch. 00:20:22.520 --> 00:20:40.520 We collect information through an annual or semi annual survey that we send to all the microchurches, four of those main numbers that help us get a sense of like the averages per microchurch that we can project out across the city and have a little bit of the state of the movement. 00:20:42.520 --> 00:20:46.120 Is we do average amount of people. 00:20:46.280 --> 00:20:58.280 We ask every microchurch how many people are participating in the life of your microchurch greater than 50 percent of the time, because most microchurches don't have an event based paradigm of being the church. 00:20:58.280 --> 00:21:06.600 They they usually have what's called something like a rule of life where they actually see each other a few times a week for different reasons and different purposes. 00:21:06.600 --> 00:21:09.480 So it's sort of like it's not just who showed up at your dinner. 00:21:09.960 --> 00:21:14.420 It's like who's involved in the life of the community greater than 50 percent of the time. 00:21:15.140 --> 00:21:18.720 And then we ask how many people are part of your core team. 00:21:19.920 --> 00:21:22.740 So that's usually like people who are bought in. 00:21:23.200 --> 00:21:25.240 They're committed to the rule of life. 00:21:26.240 --> 00:21:28.680 They they volunteer. 00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:29.200 They serve. 00:21:29.260 --> 00:21:30.000 They might be leaders. 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.420 They might help make decisions. 00:21:32.800 --> 00:21:38.160 So we have a way that our community use the language of core team that most people understand what we mean by that. 00:21:39.340 --> 00:21:49.340 And then a third number we ask is how many people surrender their life to the lordship of Jesus in a meaningful way this year in and around your microchurch. 00:21:50.380 --> 00:22:00.320 And the fourth thing we ask is how many people are are are you engaging missionally that are involved in the life of the community less than 50 percent of the time. 00:22:00.320 --> 00:22:01.900 So that's like the general like impact. 00:22:02.040 --> 00:22:03.360 That's like missional impact number. 00:22:03.560 --> 00:22:05.140 How many people are like you're reaching? 00:22:05.280 --> 00:22:07.160 How many people are that is your community reaching? 00:22:08.040 --> 00:22:12.940 So those would be four numbers that we care about at the microchurch level. 00:22:13.680 --> 00:22:19.380 Now, it would be important to say there's probably there's probably a thousand other numbers that you could track. 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:33.840 And systems people usually have a tendency to try to track too much and you have an appetite for too much data and too much reporting and that needs to be toned down. 00:22:34.840 --> 00:22:39.320 And apostolic people usually have a tendency to track too little. 00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:41.340 They just don't care. 00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:42.760 They don't think about systems. 00:22:43.420 --> 00:22:51.180 So you got to find some happy medium where it's like you need some systems, you need to track some things, but you don't want to hand the keys to the systems thinkers. 00:22:52.400 --> 00:23:01.280 Because the first thing you can do to collapse a decentralized entity into centralization is data collection. 00:23:02.060 --> 00:23:11.700 It's like one of the first little canaries in the coal mine that kills what God is doing just by trying to do data collection. 00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:15.960 Because if you want movement, you want something that's out of control. 00:23:16.220 --> 00:23:17.400 That's what movement is. 00:23:19.340 --> 00:23:30.200 And if you try to actually collect an enormous amount of data to totally understand what God is doing, that is a mechanism of control. 00:23:31.260 --> 00:23:34.740 Being able to totally understand it is a first step to control it. 00:23:34.820 --> 00:23:35.880 It's a way to control it. 00:23:36.800 --> 00:23:42.980 So we do try to resist how much data collection we do because you actually can't understand. 00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:46.340 You shouldn't want to fully understand it because you want movement. 00:23:46.540 --> 00:23:47.800 You want something outside of your control. 00:23:48.960 --> 00:23:54.380 So a few other domains of data that we collect is like names and contact information. 00:23:54.600 --> 00:23:55.740 I cannot overstate that. 00:23:55.940 --> 00:24:00.340 Like we – the reason we even started talking about this two years ago, we never used to talk about this, Jeff. 00:24:00.400 --> 00:24:07.580 Like we never used to talk about like data systems or web solutions or app support, anything like that. 00:24:08.480 --> 00:24:17.920 But it was over the last five or six years talking with so many simple church networks, microchurch networks, decentralized networks around the country and around the world. 00:24:18.580 --> 00:24:24.060 That, one, weren't thinking about this stuff at all. 00:24:24.060 --> 00:24:27.900 And it actually hurt them badly later in the game. 00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:40.800 Or two, they were thinking about it and they were trying to do it, but they were landing on solutions that were imperfect, that were either too expensive or too rigid or required coding proficiency. 00:24:41.480 --> 00:24:44.860 And they were landing on options that weren't actually great for them. 00:24:44.860 --> 00:24:53.860 So us just being able to have open conversation with people about what we do internally, which we would say we're not experts and what we've designed probably isn't the best solution. 00:24:53.860 --> 00:24:57.700 But it's at least something we've been using for 10 or 15 years and it seemed to meet our needs. 00:24:58.960 --> 00:25:02.780 We just started realizing some people actually need us to talk about that. 00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:05.300 So that's why we've just started talking about it the last couple of years. 00:25:05.940 --> 00:25:12.700 So collecting people's names, contact information, names of their kids, like general ages or something like that. 00:25:12.700 --> 00:25:22.460 It's just a way to actually help people feel included and like they belong to a citywide movement of microchurches or to some decentralized tribe. 00:25:22.680 --> 00:25:33.980 If you care at all about people feeling like they belong, that requires a communication strategy that helps them feel like they belong. 00:25:34.900 --> 00:25:39.680 And a communication strategy requires contact information. 00:25:40.220 --> 00:25:40.280 Right. 00:25:40.480 --> 00:25:52.320 So being able to collect that intentionally and store it somewhere, I don't know, not in your phone, but like in a place where a few people have access to it, 00:25:52.320 --> 00:26:03.040 where, you know, you're, you have a way to sort of like have drip communication with people that helps them feel invited to things that they're invited to included in things that they're included in. 00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:18.320 So number like stats, numbers, contact information, maybe the last thing that we, that the last two things we, we collect is like some diagnostic things around like the state of a microchurch beyond numbers, 00:26:18.320 --> 00:26:28.240 like phase of development, like phase of development, like what phase is a, in a, in like a four phase grid, what phase is a microchurch in, or what type is the microchurch mission specific or distributive? 00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:35.480 These things matter to us, but they're not numeric, but it's like, we need to know what type of context they're reaching. 00:26:36.940 --> 00:26:38.660 Uh, are they a neighborhood house church? 00:26:38.660 --> 00:26:46.200 Are they involved in homelessness, incarceration, uh, human trafficking, um, re-entry, foster care and adoption? 00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:47.320 So that matters to us. 00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:49.800 Like what, what's the, what's the mission they're engaged in? 00:26:49.860 --> 00:26:51.580 What phase of development are they in? 00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:52.960 So we collect all that. 00:26:53.380 --> 00:27:00.760 Um, and the last thing that we, that we collect is being able to get a pulse on the needs of the microchurch. 00:27:00.760 --> 00:27:08.520 So we do survey needs that's data, you know, data is not just numbers, data is data is like user experience. 00:27:08.680 --> 00:27:19.600 It's, it's what, what, how is the trellis that we've built, the platform of services, which exists to help the microchurches being able to ask them? 00:27:19.760 --> 00:27:24.300 Is it helping is the trellis of services that we've built? 00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:29.380 Is it helping you be the church and how, what are the things that are the most helpful that you use regularly? 00:27:29.640 --> 00:27:33.640 What are the needs that you have that we're not actually meeting right now? 00:27:34.540 --> 00:27:41.860 And so being able to collect that data and then dashboard it and to be able to see this service is being used really highly. 00:27:42.400 --> 00:27:49.840 Let's keep, let's actually give a good allocation of the budget to that to reflect that's the needs of the microchurches. 00:27:49.920 --> 00:27:51.000 We need to grow that service. 00:27:51.160 --> 00:27:57.340 But this service over here that has a huge allocation of the budget, nobody's using and nobody's saying they need it anymore. 00:27:57.440 --> 00:27:58.940 So let's tear that back a little bit. 00:27:59.280 --> 00:28:05.460 And then we've got 27 microchurches that all said they have this need that we don't have, we don't have a service for. 00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:07.240 We don't, we're not actively helping. 00:28:07.520 --> 00:28:08.660 Coaches aren't engaged in it. 00:28:08.740 --> 00:28:09.780 We don't have curriculum for. 00:28:09.940 --> 00:28:12.200 Well, suddenly we know we need to build something. 00:28:12.400 --> 00:28:25.400 Um, so I, you know, so I, I, it's, it's a little bit of like survey assessing needs of the priesthood of all believers and how we're meeting those needs, how we're helping people be the church. 00:28:25.460 --> 00:28:29.720 It's diagnostic, it's numeric, it's contact information. 00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:42.880 Um, so, uh, we, we have, uh, the, the system that we use behind the scenes to track all that, which again, I'm not going to do a tutorial or share my screen on this. 00:28:42.880 --> 00:28:49.380 If, if, if, if there's anybody that sees this and wants to know about that, feel free to reach out to me and I can show you a tutorial. 00:28:49.380 --> 00:28:54.420 We can, we can show you behind the, under the hood, behind the scenes, um, of how it all works. 00:28:54.420 --> 00:28:56.860 But we use a web-based tool called Airtable. 00:28:57.680 --> 00:29:01.920 Uh, we've been using it for 14 years, probably at this point. 00:29:02.060 --> 00:29:04.400 I didn't even know Airtable was around 14 years ago. 00:29:04.520 --> 00:29:09.100 When you, I know, man, we started, I know we started using that early. 00:29:09.100 --> 00:29:20.940 And I think a lot of people would maybe resonate with the, like, you know, in the, in the early days of us being a microchurch network, we, we, we, we just had Excel spreadsheets. 00:29:21.740 --> 00:29:23.460 It, we didn't even have Google sheets. 00:29:24.500 --> 00:29:30.780 Uh, we, we had Excel spreadsheets and we had one Excel spreadsheet that was tracking microchurch leaders. 00:29:32.400 --> 00:29:41.920 And then we had a different Excel spreadsheet that was tracking microchurches because those are two different types of records to like track. 00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:44.040 So you can't track those in the same list. 00:29:44.120 --> 00:29:45.120 Those are two different things. 00:29:45.800 --> 00:29:52.560 So it was hard for those Excel spreadsheets to be linked to each other, like to link leaders to the microchurches they're leading. 00:29:52.920 --> 00:29:56.480 And if you change information in one, you got to go back and change information in the other. 00:29:56.680 --> 00:29:59.540 And then you've got a different spreadsheet for donors. 00:30:00.060 --> 00:30:11.840 If you have some kind of economic model that actually requires like private donors to, you, you've got to be able to track those people, maintain, upkeep, look at prospects, all that kind of stuff is data. 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:12.980 It's a separate data sheet. 00:30:13.940 --> 00:30:25.340 And we, I think we realized like, oh, updating these and then attaching them and sending them back to each other and having version 37, you know, that's the most updated, like this isn't great. 00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:36.480 So then we started using Google Sheets because it was more collaborative, but it didn't fix the problem of having 15 different data sets that need to be able to interact with each other, but they don't. 00:30:37.100 --> 00:30:38.440 And it gets unwieldy. 00:30:38.940 --> 00:30:42.680 And so it was more collaborative, but it didn't fix any of the other problems. 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:48.920 And so we felt like, gosh, we need one data solution that helps us track all this stuff in a way that it's integrated. 00:30:49.040 --> 00:30:54.880 It interacts with each other and, um, and there's a, there's a few of those, right. 00:30:54.920 --> 00:30:59.980 And I, there's things like HubSpot and Salesforce and Hive and big contacts. 00:30:59.980 --> 00:31:04.820 And like, there's, there's, uh, uh, um, there's a lot of tools like that out there. 00:31:05.160 --> 00:31:10.020 I think the reason we landed on air table, I get, uh, that is exactly right. 00:31:10.260 --> 00:31:11.180 I'm not kidding. 00:31:11.280 --> 00:31:19.380 I, we started, I don't know if you know, like we were a HubSpot shop for many years and, uh, it was year after year. 00:31:19.380 --> 00:31:22.340 It was, it was the most expensive thing in the tech stack. 00:31:22.620 --> 00:31:23.180 Huge line. 00:31:23.180 --> 00:31:31.600 And yeah, it's like, yeah, we leaned on it a lot, but not, and, and the one thing, you know, HubSpot, Salesforce, they're great at getting your money. 00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:41.760 Um, you know, you're, you're, you're paying X and then like, in no disrespect, six months later, you're paying Y 12 months later, you're paying Z that thing just keeps going up to the right. 00:31:41.760 --> 00:31:44.080 It's, it's, you know, cable all over again. 00:31:44.420 --> 00:31:45.420 So that's exactly right. 00:31:45.500 --> 00:31:46.320 We needed that. 00:31:46.440 --> 00:31:52.000 We were trying to find a solution that was in the balance of three restricting variables. 00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:59.780 One, we needed a web solution that, um, was affordable and not many of them were at the time. 00:31:59.780 --> 00:32:05.800 And still a lot of them that meet all of our needs, we can't afford them now. 00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:13.540 And then you run into the second restriction, which is you find the ones that are affordable, but they're too rigid. 00:32:14.420 --> 00:32:16.640 They don't allow for a lot. 00:32:16.740 --> 00:32:19.640 They don't allow for the level of customization that we need. 00:32:20.120 --> 00:32:24.420 Um, they, they, you have to use it in a particular way. 00:32:24.500 --> 00:32:32.480 And that particular way usually makes sense for prevailing model, legacy model churches, organizations, or nonprofits. 00:32:33.060 --> 00:32:42.880 It doesn't quite fit the data that needs to be collected and the, and the, and the user experience of a decentralized network of microchurches like what we're doing. 00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:45.040 And it didn't allow for the customization. 00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:56.480 So it was either too expensive or too rigid, or we would find, we would find solutions that were affordable and had customization, but they required coding. 00:32:57.480 --> 00:33:06.500 So you're, you're, you're having to basically hard wire into your organization that you're going to have to be able to afford, you're going to have to pay staff that know how to code forever. 00:33:06.500 --> 00:33:14.640 If you sign up for that thing, you have to have a coding gift set proficiency, competency in your organization at all times. 00:33:14.640 --> 00:33:24.360 And if you lose it, if you lose that person that, that runs it or manages it or built it, you're screwed until you find another person that can come in. 00:33:24.580 --> 00:33:26.420 So we were hesitant about that too. 00:33:26.520 --> 00:33:31.700 We didn't want to like rely heavily on a coding proficiency because it bottlenecks and it kills scale. 00:33:32.340 --> 00:33:34.660 So like, can we find something that's cheap? 00:33:35.400 --> 00:33:39.000 It's fully customizable and it doesn't have coding. 00:33:39.500 --> 00:33:41.920 And we found Airtable and there might be others out there. 00:33:42.000 --> 00:33:49.080 I don't know, but Airtable was the one we found at the time and it's been great to, it's still meets all of our needs now. 00:33:49.100 --> 00:33:50.680 And we're continuing to be impressed with it. 00:33:50.680 --> 00:33:59.640 And yeah, Andy, Andy Mage, uh, the communicate, the community director for TCD loves Airtable and is, and is constantly working. 00:33:59.640 --> 00:34:06.520 And there was, there was a season of TCD where we were using Airtable for a number of, of, uh, projects. 00:34:06.520 --> 00:34:09.120 And so that, that's really, that's really intriguing. 00:34:09.120 --> 00:34:15.020 Now, um, how do you like, who has access? 00:34:15.020 --> 00:34:22.440 So your, your entire database is now a giant Airtable and who has access to it? 00:34:22.440 --> 00:34:30.500 Like what, what, what is, cause that almost feels like a little bit of an administrative nightmare, but you've, you figured out a simplified system for that. 00:34:31.120 --> 00:34:31.680 Yeah. 00:34:31.680 --> 00:34:48.940 So we have one Airtable base, um, and inside that base, we have one table for microchurch leader that tracks people, microchurch leaders, missionaries, volunteers, donors, any person is tracked in one table. 00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:56.800 And then there's a separate table in the same base that tracks microchurches, which again, that's a different record. 00:34:57.180 --> 00:34:57.620 Yeah. 00:34:57.740 --> 00:35:01.440 But then they, inside those tables, you can link those to each other. 00:35:01.820 --> 00:35:06.160 So the, the people are always synced with the microchurches they're a part of. 00:35:06.220 --> 00:35:10.360 And the microchurches are always synced with the leaders and people that are involved with them. 00:35:10.360 --> 00:35:13.900 And you can sort of open up all the records and see the integration. 00:35:14.960 --> 00:35:23.960 And, uh, the other nice thing is that in order to add records, add people to the database, add microchurches to the database. 00:35:23.960 --> 00:35:24.680 How do you do that? 00:35:24.680 --> 00:35:31.100 Well, a, a, a big way to help attract, collect new data is through forms, right? 00:35:31.100 --> 00:35:37.480 So type form, ninja form, jot form, like these form solutions where you're collecting the data. 00:35:37.660 --> 00:35:40.020 Well, Airtable has built-in forms. 00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:42.260 So you don't need type form. 00:35:42.320 --> 00:35:43.200 You don't need ninja form. 00:35:43.260 --> 00:35:44.140 You don't need jot form. 00:35:44.260 --> 00:35:52.360 You can create Airtable forms that add people directly to your existing tables, collecting the data that you're already tracking. 00:35:53.560 --> 00:36:07.100 Um, and then, uh, automations, uh, that Airtable inside those bases have native action trigger automation features where we, we, we don't, we used to rely heavily on Zapier. 00:36:07.560 --> 00:36:09.360 We don't have to use Zapier anymore. 00:36:09.780 --> 00:36:15.980 And, uh, every automation that we needed from Zapier is handled inside Airtable natively. 00:36:16.280 --> 00:36:16.400 Yeah. 00:36:16.900 --> 00:36:20.800 So basically like, and, and Zapier would break all the time, man. 00:36:20.860 --> 00:36:27.840 Like they, so, and, and you wouldn't catch it sometimes until like you, you went six months without an automation working. 00:36:28.240 --> 00:36:29.100 You didn't know it. 00:36:29.660 --> 00:36:37.200 So, um, so built-in automations that do, that does automatic, you know, custom emailing or automatic record adjustment. 00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:45.980 And then Airtable, and then, and then the next question becomes, well, how do you take that data and make it viewable by outsiders in a way that makes sense? 00:36:46.020 --> 00:36:55.320 So that's dashboarding, that's, um, interpretive data sets, that's showing people the records that it affects them for their job, like coaches. 00:36:56.100 --> 00:37:07.720 So if there's coaches in the network that have signed, that are assigned five or six microchurches, well, how do you make sure that those coaches have access to all the information they need about the leaders and the microchurches? 00:37:07.820 --> 00:37:21.600 Well, we can create custom views that show those coaches who they're assigned to and gives them access to all the information they need to be a coach without giving them access to the underlying base where they can't break anything in the database. 00:37:21.960 --> 00:37:42.560 So who has access to, so that, that's all contained in one base, the forms that collect data, the lists that actually filter, group, sort, or create custom views of that data, the automations where you operationalize that data, the interfaces where you actually can create public interaction on that data and dashboard that data. 00:37:42.660 --> 00:37:44.920 It's all in one base and it's fully customizable. 00:37:45.820 --> 00:37:48.020 Um, who has access to that core data? 00:37:48.360 --> 00:37:49.840 Three or four people on our team. 00:37:50.940 --> 00:37:57.400 There's, there's only three or four folks like in, in the, and you can make that as broad or as tight as you want. 00:37:58.560 --> 00:38:12.700 And so there's just a handful of people on our team that have access to the raw data on the backend, but we can, but because of the customization automate automation interface features, we can actually turn that data to the outside world. 00:38:12.700 --> 00:38:19.820 in ways that are functional and helpful for people without giving them access to break it 00:38:19.820 --> 00:38:27.680 or get access to too much information, security issues. So that's generally how we operate. Now, 00:38:27.680 --> 00:38:36.320 that's just our one main leaders and microchurches directory base. But Airtable is a no-code app 00:38:36.320 --> 00:38:42.960 builder. That's what it is. And so almost all of our departments have built five or six of their own 00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:53.240 bases to hack their work. So you can use Airtable as a task management system where the records 00:38:53.240 --> 00:38:59.880 aren't people. The records aren't microchurches. The records are tasks. And then you're assigning 00:38:59.880 --> 00:39:05.160 them to people and you give them a due date and you show them in an interface. So it's just an app 00:39:05.160 --> 00:39:14.460 builder. Using it for directories is just one use case. So we probably have like 40 or 50 bases 00:39:14.460 --> 00:39:21.280 in our underground account that are like apps that are helping our – even microchurches. There's 00:39:21.280 --> 00:39:29.700 probably 10 or 15 microchurches that the network has built an Airtable base for them to do volunteer 00:39:29.700 --> 00:39:36.160 management for outreaches, project management on some kind of like initiatives that they're running. 00:39:37.600 --> 00:39:43.700 So we use it for all kinds of things. I mean, but the leaders and microchurches directory is the 00:39:43.700 --> 00:39:46.500 main one that a lot of people are interested in how we do that. 00:39:47.000 --> 00:39:52.900 Now, like I'm assuming as you're talking about, you know, designing, creating Airtables, there has to be 00:39:52.900 --> 00:39:59.040 some level, okay, maybe you're not a coder. You know, it's code free. But there has to be some 00:39:59.040 --> 00:40:02.300 understanding of like database structure. 00:40:02.700 --> 00:40:03.140 Totally. 00:40:03.460 --> 00:40:10.360 You know, and so understanding permissions of who needs to have what. Like, but now you're talking 00:40:10.360 --> 00:40:17.300 about each department is building their own. And so do you have like a database champion, 00:40:17.680 --> 00:40:23.860 somebody who kind of works alongside and helps as you see that scaled down to the different ministries, 00:40:24.020 --> 00:40:28.240 the different, I, I think the best, the closest thing we have to that is me. 00:40:29.740 --> 00:40:35.460 So are you the database cheerleader? Do you have like a little, I'm the czar. I'm the czar. 00:40:35.700 --> 00:40:38.280 Oh, that's czar. That's a lot more fancy. That's good. That's good. 00:40:38.280 --> 00:40:42.860 But I think, I think, um, the nice thing about it, you're totally right. There, there's always a 00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:47.520 learning curve on any web solution. There's always a learning curve. So there is a learning curve with 00:40:47.520 --> 00:40:53.720 their table on how it works and its functionality, but the learning curve is a bit shorter than a lot 00:40:53.720 --> 00:40:59.260 of the other ones. And so that's the nice thing about like so many folks in our, in our, on our team 00:40:59.260 --> 00:41:06.480 and in our community that are using it because the, um, usability of it has actually made it a bit 00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.100 more decent. People don't feel like they have to rely on a central champion to either help them use 00:41:12.100 --> 00:41:16.400 it or give them permission to use it. And so there's a lot of folks that are using it to build stuff 00:41:16.400 --> 00:41:23.160 that helps them that I don't know anything about. And it, and you know, each individual staff or some, 00:41:23.240 --> 00:41:26.920 a lot of those microchurch leaders, they just have their own air table user account. They have 00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:30.740 their own workspace, their building stuff, and then they can share those bases with us if they need 00:41:30.740 --> 00:41:34.720 help. But I think a lot of people have just sort of gotten used to like, if they get stuck 00:41:34.720 --> 00:41:41.680 or if they need to like map it out on a whiteboard, like the functionality, like if they need to do a 00:41:41.680 --> 00:41:45.700 logic flow chart of like what, how, how do they need it to work? How do they, what do they need? 00:41:46.400 --> 00:41:49.560 And then how do we build that? Like, I think people have gotten used to like, 00:41:49.600 --> 00:41:55.660 they can always ask me, um, and I can help them. I can help them build it. I can help them sort of 00:41:55.660 --> 00:42:03.360 get over a hurdle or a barrier, you know, because the customization is so expansive that if you're 00:42:03.360 --> 00:42:09.260 trying to do one, you're trying to build a base to accomplish one outcome, there's a hundred ways 00:42:09.260 --> 00:42:14.020 you could build that. Some of them are more complex and some of them are super simple. 00:42:14.420 --> 00:42:19.680 And so, um, you know, so I, I do, I do sort of come alongside and help, but they don't need me. 00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:25.800 You know, they, they, they, they're building stuff on their own all over the place. So do you find 00:42:25.800 --> 00:42:32.600 that, that people within the org, um, they're more like they're open to tracking, they understand 00:42:32.600 --> 00:42:40.060 reporting? Is there, is there hesitancy or, you know, invasiveness that's too much? Is there pushback 00:42:40.060 --> 00:42:45.280 against that? Yeah. I think we're always, we're always trying to be conscious of that, you know? 00:42:45.280 --> 00:42:53.420 So that's why we only do, we only send the survey to all the microchurch leaders once a year at most, 00:42:54.020 --> 00:43:00.100 you know? So it's not like we're sending this quarterly thing or monthly thing where it can 00:43:00.100 --> 00:43:05.200 sort of feel like, gosh, you guys are, it's, it's taken half my ministry time to do these reports, 00:43:05.200 --> 00:43:09.460 you know, or whatever. So we're trying to be really conscious that like these people are 00:43:09.460 --> 00:43:13.500 practitioners. They don't have an enormous amount of time to be telling us what's going on. 00:43:14.060 --> 00:43:21.880 But then we always, whenever we send those surveys, we always frame it as like, this isn't like a pass 00:43:21.880 --> 00:43:26.560 fail. We're not a valuing the success or failure of your microchurch. We're not so like, we're trying 00:43:26.560 --> 00:43:38.760 to like, and you filling out this, my, this survey is not actually just about us helping you better 00:43:38.760 --> 00:43:43.800 like now or in the future by understanding what's going on. It is partly that it's partly 00:43:43.800 --> 00:43:51.380 like help us help you, you know, that's part of it. But it's also like everybody that fills this out, 00:43:51.500 --> 00:43:57.240 it's, it's giving us a bigger picture of what God is doing across the city that we can, 00:43:57.660 --> 00:44:02.500 that we could share that picture back to you because every microchurch is in isolation and 00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:06.500 they don't often get a glimpse of like what God's up to in the whole citywide network, 00:44:06.500 --> 00:44:13.300 but they need that picture. And, and that pic being able to get a glimpse of that picture, 00:44:13.300 --> 00:44:21.560 not just in numbers, but in like stories in like being able to say how many leaders or people are 00:44:21.560 --> 00:44:28.520 involved in different sort of kingdom contour, social causes, homelessness, hunger, joblessness, 00:44:28.660 --> 00:44:34.360 incarceration, being able to sort of like share a broad picture of all that God is doing 00:44:34.360 --> 00:44:41.260 through a, through a tribe of missionary people who are embedding their life in the soil of the city 00:44:41.260 --> 00:44:47.340 in quiet, humble, sacrificial ways. Being able to share that story requires data collection, 00:44:47.340 --> 00:44:52.700 like being able to ask everybody what's going on so that we can tell you back, look at what God's doing. 00:44:54.080 --> 00:45:01.960 And because people around the world are asking those questions of the Tampa community and we want 00:45:01.960 --> 00:45:08.000 to be able to have accurate answers to tell back to them. So we always frame the data collection with 00:45:08.000 --> 00:45:13.900 those, with a little bit of vision for why it matters. We would never just send a survey and just 00:45:13.900 --> 00:45:19.240 be like, Hey, answer these questions, please. You know? So I think people do need, I think people do 00:45:19.240 --> 00:45:24.640 need a little framing to understand like why we're asking this, why it would be super helpful for you 00:45:24.640 --> 00:45:28.880 to fill it out, not just to you, but for like the city and for the world, why it's like actually 00:45:28.880 --> 00:45:37.140 mission critical for you to do this and to not, not to assume that because people are constantly 00:45:37.140 --> 00:45:47.740 inundated by data collection from non kingdom entities and initiatives. Yeah. And people have had 00:45:47.740 --> 00:45:53.440 their frameworks around data collection, their like mental paradigm around data collection formed by 00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:58.720 that stuff. And we're, so we're trying to do data collection, but we're not trying to do it in the 00:45:58.720 --> 00:46:03.180 way of the world. We're trying to do it a different way. And we're trying to use it for different 00:46:03.180 --> 00:46:08.780 purposes. We're not trying to commoditize that data. We're not trying to self-aggrandize that data. 00:46:09.140 --> 00:46:17.920 We're trying to use it for the sake of love and the glory of God. But people have been baked to be either 00:46:17.920 --> 00:46:26.160 frustrated or ignore that, that kind of stuff or to feel controlled by it. So I think acknowledging 00:46:26.160 --> 00:46:30.460 that that's the case and trying to sort of frame it better for people is really important. 00:46:31.000 --> 00:46:40.240 That being said, you're trying to do something different. They're reporting adverse or at least 00:46:40.240 --> 00:46:46.800 the culture. You're creating a new culture. You're establishing something. So let me ask this, 00:46:47.020 --> 00:46:54.780 because this is a pain point for me, the church digital. Do you, okay, I know where I, I know what 00:46:54.780 --> 00:47:02.020 we need to collect and it's going to put some people in shock. Do we go ahead and just rip the 00:47:02.020 --> 00:47:09.140 bandaid off and work hard to establish that new culture? Do you boil the frog slowly and get there 00:47:09.140 --> 00:47:16.240 over time? How do you get from zero to where you want to be? Yeah. Like, are you saying there's good 00:47:16.240 --> 00:47:22.900 like, uh, if you were to try to do some base digit, some base like data collection from like, I don't know, 00:47:22.900 --> 00:47:29.560 a particular subset of an audience or influencer or a community. Are you saying like, they'd be really 00:47:29.560 --> 00:47:35.980 hesitant to do that? And how do you react? I think we're just not, uh, you know, collecting data is, 00:47:36.060 --> 00:47:42.100 is the hardest, the hardest thing, getting people to remember, getting people to get on their radar. 00:47:42.500 --> 00:47:49.100 A hundred percent. So now you're reminding monthly to do something you only want quarterly. And now 00:47:49.100 --> 00:47:55.660 you're like, you know, the annoying voice. Um, and you, you don't want to do that people in one of the 00:47:55.660 --> 00:48:00.260 things, you know, we talk about there's recruiters, there's, uh, there's owners and there's renters, 00:48:00.260 --> 00:48:05.820 like the people that, that own the vision were all about it. People that are renting the vision, 00:48:05.820 --> 00:48:10.700 there's pushback. Well, they're, they're not an owner. And so it's, it's kind of that, 00:48:10.760 --> 00:48:16.200 okay, we're not tracking anything till we need to start to actually track and get involved in that. 00:48:16.260 --> 00:48:20.220 But that's, that's a culture shock because for years you haven't tracked anything. 00:48:20.840 --> 00:48:27.120 Totally. Totally. Yeah. So I, I would say just a few, a few pieces on that one is the reason why we 00:48:27.120 --> 00:48:33.700 only dashboard outward on the, like, just take the numbers of like the microchurch number questions. 00:48:34.560 --> 00:48:41.320 We never, we never necessarily try to project outward some total numbers. We always do averages. 00:48:41.880 --> 00:48:47.340 The reason why we send out averages is because there's only 40 or 50 or 60% of the microchurches 00:48:47.340 --> 00:48:54.280 that actually do the survey. So we don't actually have some total numbers. Like it, we would have 00:48:54.280 --> 00:48:59.460 some, we would, we would feel pretty confident about some total numbers if like 90% of the microchurches 00:48:59.460 --> 00:49:04.640 or more actually did this survey, but we only get about 50 to 60% compliance on the survey. So then 00:49:04.640 --> 00:49:08.940 we actually take the averages of those numbers and we project them out across the network. 00:49:09.520 --> 00:49:16.880 So we're used to having like 50 to 60% survey compliance as like a home run. That's great. 00:49:17.620 --> 00:49:22.640 Like, so we don't, you know, I think it would cause us problems if we had the expectations that 00:49:22.640 --> 00:49:28.340 we're going to get like a hundred percent compliance on those surveys. Uh, so we only get, you know, 00:49:28.600 --> 00:49:37.080 50, 60% annual survey compliance. We know that. And we don't give people consequences for not filling 00:49:37.080 --> 00:49:41.980 out the survey. It's just, it's very like open relational. It's like, Hey, we're creating some 00:49:41.980 --> 00:49:46.520 vision and some values around why this would be helpful for you to fill out helpful for us, 00:49:46.580 --> 00:49:50.620 helpful for the city, helpful for the world. But if you don't want to do it, we're not going to 00:49:50.620 --> 00:49:54.280 like excommunicate you. We're not going to like, we're not going to pull away services. We're not 00:49:54.280 --> 00:49:58.120 going to, we're not going to disaffiliate, disaffiliate with your market church. We're still 00:49:58.120 --> 00:50:04.680 going to help you be the church just like yesterday. It's going to have like no effect. Um, so I think, 00:50:04.680 --> 00:50:12.460 I think people still feel that we're being true to our values, even in, even in like the delivery 00:50:12.460 --> 00:50:17.320 of the survey, it's almost like if you don't do it, we're still open-handed. We're trying to create 00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:23.460 non-transactional relationships with each other. And we're trying to like serve each other freely. 00:50:23.900 --> 00:50:31.980 But to your point, like the sort of members, owners, owners or operators, we do it. Yeah, 00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:40.120 we do have, we do have like a core community and we have a friends network and we would definitely 00:50:40.120 --> 00:50:44.460 have a higher expectation that people, that people who say like, I want to be core to the underground. 00:50:44.460 --> 00:50:50.220 I want to be like an owner. I want to be like bought in. I got skin in the game, not just at 00:50:50.220 --> 00:50:55.920 the micro church level, but in the network level, those people, we'd be like, yeah, I, you basically 00:50:55.920 --> 00:51:02.060 told us you would do this. Like you, you, you want to help at this level. Um, and people who are in 00:51:02.060 --> 00:51:07.580 the more friends network, we'd be like, yeah, it's okay. Like we, it'd be helpful. Um, so we have 00:51:07.580 --> 00:51:16.060 those sort of levels of relationship too, but the, the, we don't put people, we don't select people into 00:51:16.060 --> 00:51:22.000 those relational expectations or categories. They choose, they, they choose like how, 00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:27.420 you know, they, what the expectations that they want to have, or don't want to have, 00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:35.760 you know, at the network level and we just honor what they told us. Uh, so, um, so yeah, I think 00:51:35.760 --> 00:51:39.260 that, I think those two things have been helpful. I think the other thing is just like, there's a lot 00:51:39.260 --> 00:51:45.180 of times where, when we're, when we've built a survey and we're going to send out the survey, 00:51:45.180 --> 00:51:52.040 a lot of times we won't do that through like a random MailChimp or like just a broadcast or a 00:51:52.040 --> 00:51:58.680 BCC email. That's just going to land in people's trash. We distribute that survey out relationally, 00:51:58.680 --> 00:52:06.900 like through, like through, um, core leaders, governing elders, coaches, where it's like, 00:52:06.960 --> 00:52:11.220 you're actually being invited to fill out that survey, not through an email, but through like 00:52:11.220 --> 00:52:15.260 a phone call or a text message from a friend. Yeah. There's relational understanding. 00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:20.820 Totally. Yeah. So it's like, we, we trickle it through that way to be like, 00:52:21.140 --> 00:52:27.620 Hey, I'm going to text you this survey link. It'd be so great if you filled it out. And there's 15, 00:52:27.720 --> 00:52:33.140 20 people who are taking responsibility for diffusing out that, that survey across the network 00:52:33.140 --> 00:52:38.620 so that if people do feel weird about it, they can at least vocalize that because they're talking 00:52:38.620 --> 00:52:45.260 with a friend, you know, and they can, a lot of times people don't really have concerns anymore. 00:52:45.260 --> 00:52:48.740 But back in the day when we first started doing this, cause we had to rip the bandaid to like the 00:52:48.740 --> 00:52:54.820 cultural bandaid. And so even just being able to have create space for people to say, what's this 00:52:54.820 --> 00:53:03.520 being used for and how long is it going to take? And, um, or this question makes me feel weird or, 00:53:03.680 --> 00:53:09.320 you know, whatever. Like I think it was, it's always been a good flow to, to, to do it that way. 00:53:09.860 --> 00:53:18.000 Um, it takes more time or it takes some additional, uh, communication hacks, you know, to figure out 00:53:18.000 --> 00:53:28.260 how to send a text message to 150 people from your phone to them where they feel like they just 00:53:28.260 --> 00:53:32.720 received a text message from you directly that you just worked on, but you actually clicked a button 00:53:32.720 --> 00:53:39.300 and it sent 150 times. So it does take some, some scalability hacks to do it that way. But 00:53:39.300 --> 00:53:44.320 I actually do have an app for that, but, um, that, that may be, it's, it's, uh, on the, uh, on the 00:53:44.320 --> 00:53:51.420 iOS it's a hit, hit him up H I T E M U P. Oh, really? Are you familiar with that one? Yeah. 00:53:51.500 --> 00:53:57.720 I've never heard of it. We, we've, we, we use the shortcuts app on, on, on, on iPhone. Yeah. 00:53:57.720 --> 00:54:06.580 Yeah. And we, we built a shortcut to text at mass audiences individually using air table as 00:54:06.580 --> 00:54:13.960 the backend with via API because air table has API functionality. So, um, hit them up would 00:54:13.960 --> 00:54:19.140 do, would do something similar to that. Um, one of the things that, that I, I like about 00:54:19.140 --> 00:54:28.680 it is, um, hit them ups like the shortcut where it copies and paste the email into the, um, the 00:54:28.680 --> 00:54:37.320 message app. Um, but it pauses so that I can like write a, um, a personalized note at the 00:54:37.320 --> 00:54:43.560 top. Perfect. And so they're not just getting like a, an automated thing. I've got the ability 00:54:43.560 --> 00:54:50.200 to kind of, yeah, something that they can tell right away was that it's not. Yeah. And 00:54:50.200 --> 00:54:54.700 so, but it is, it's funny. I tell the story. I was, I was on a, I was on a giving Tuesday 00:54:54.700 --> 00:55:00.780 stream and I was at, while I was on a giving Tuesday, I had my phone underneath the desk 00:55:00.780 --> 00:55:07.600 here. And, and literally I just was like, as I was spamming the send button, just going 00:55:07.600 --> 00:55:13.200 through, trying to text people while I was staring right at the camera, trying to keep, keep 00:55:13.200 --> 00:55:19.020 conversations going. And it was funny. I messed up. I told the story to, and we had a conversation 00:55:19.020 --> 00:55:23.680 with the lady. There's this old, there was a, while I was texting all these people, one 00:55:23.680 --> 00:55:28.800 of the ladies was, um, I'm not going to date her, but 70 something, you know, older, older 00:55:28.800 --> 00:55:36.020 side of the equation. And, um, I miss, I miss pushed. And instead I pushed microphone on 00:55:36.020 --> 00:55:42.740 hers. And so Siri recorded, I don't know, three, five minutes of me talking. 00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:50.220 And then I pressed send this massively long text of Siri, just recording whatever I was 00:55:50.220 --> 00:55:54.960 saying at the moment. And I was like, Hey, I'm sorry. I was totally screwed up. That was 00:55:54.960 --> 00:56:03.240 my fault. But I think she laughed at my behalf. Um, man, this, this was so good. Um, you are 00:56:03.240 --> 00:56:09.280 doing other like webinars and things that you're for microchurch, we've got some microchurch, 00:56:09.620 --> 00:56:14.320 digital microchurch people hanging out with us. Like if they're, if they're interested in, 00:56:14.360 --> 00:56:18.680 in more resources, what, what are you guys doing through, uh, through your network? 00:56:19.360 --> 00:56:25.240 Yeah, we do. We do, uh, a monthly webinar. It's usually the first week of the month. I think 00:56:25.240 --> 00:56:30.460 starting in the fall in August, we're, we're doing one tomorrow, uh, because we're in the 00:56:30.460 --> 00:56:34.800 first week of June. So tomorrow's the first week of the month. We'll do one tomorrow, uh, 00:56:34.800 --> 00:56:40.120 tomorrow afternoon at two o'clock. Um, and that one's going to be on economic models for microchurch 00:56:40.120 --> 00:56:47.600 networks. Um, so some people sort of just feel like, uh, tithing doesn't feel right. Nonprofit 00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:52.740 fundraising model doesn't feel right. Missionary personal support doesn't quite feel right. We're 00:56:52.740 --> 00:57:01.040 not sure what to do. Um, so, uh, we'll talk about that tomorrow, like exploring pre inherited and, 00:57:01.040 --> 00:57:05.360 you know, future thinking, alternative economic models that can work for decentralized networks. 00:57:05.740 --> 00:57:13.020 Um, uh, we'll skip July and then, uh, throughout the fall, um, it'll be every first Thursday of 00:57:13.020 --> 00:57:18.680 every month. And we usually, we have some webinars that are at the microchurch level and then some 00:57:18.680 --> 00:57:23.480 webinars that are at the network level, you know? So, um, so I think in August, we're going to, 00:57:23.580 --> 00:57:30.320 the, the, the, the, the webinars on how to start a microchurch. And I think September is how to 00:57:30.320 --> 00:57:35.640 activate people in mission in your microchurch. You know, um, if people aren't really active in 00:57:35.640 --> 00:57:39.580 mission, how do you get people activated? But then later that later that year, like, 00:57:39.620 --> 00:57:44.980 I think in November, we're going to be talking about governance in a microchurch network, you 00:57:44.980 --> 00:57:51.500 know, like church, church discipline, um, moral failure, theological questioning, like how does 00:57:51.500 --> 00:57:57.880 all that work in a, in a, in a microchurch network? And, um, so yeah, we'll do, we'll do one every 00:57:57.880 --> 00:58:05.420 month. And then, uh, we also have the, uh, a seven week underground intensive that we do twice a year, 00:58:05.540 --> 00:58:10.040 the next time we do it is it starts the last week of August. It'll go through September. 00:58:10.540 --> 00:58:16.100 It's four weeks of core content and then three optional weeks. Uh, if people want to go the 00:58:16.100 --> 00:58:22.180 whole seven weeks, um, it's once a week on zoom. Uh, but that's basically like getting really under 00:58:22.180 --> 00:58:28.740 the hood in the underground sort of frameworks principles, um, along with it's cohort based. 00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:33.240 So you'll, it's usually along with 10, 15 other folks around the country, around the world that are 00:58:33.240 --> 00:58:39.540 sort of exploring it. Um, so we'll do that in August and September. Um, all that stuff is free. 00:58:39.660 --> 00:58:45.200 All of our training environments are, are, are based on a donate what you can model. So a lot of people 00:58:45.200 --> 00:58:50.140 just do it, just do it free. We don't want cost to be a barrier for folks. Some people chip in after 00:58:50.140 --> 00:58:56.220 the fact. Um, uh, but you can find all that at underground network.org. Awesome. So we'll, 00:58:56.340 --> 00:59:02.260 we'll take a look at that underground network.org. I want to get you connected with Micah, uh, Micah 00:59:02.260 --> 00:59:11.000 is our outpost leader. So he kind of collects together all the people that are, um, running what 00:59:11.000 --> 00:59:18.720 I would call a digital micro, um, a micro church strategy with a strong digital component. And so 00:59:18.720 --> 00:59:25.060 he's actually planting, uh, a series of micro churches and, and, uh, some others that we're 00:59:25.060 --> 00:59:30.020 starting to collect. It'd be worth the two of you, you, you talk and just to kind of be aware when 00:59:30.020 --> 00:59:35.780 there's, there's, uh, there's lots of resources that you guys are doing that, that would benefit. 00:59:35.940 --> 00:59:41.680 Like, even as you're talking about like pastoral care and how to like discipline, discipline is 00:59:41.680 --> 00:59:46.600 probably a better word. Yeah. Like how you would do that in a digital micro could very easily be 00:59:46.600 --> 00:59:52.240 contextualized into, uh, into digital space. Uh, I'm sorry, how you're doing that in incarnational 00:59:52.240 --> 00:59:57.720 micro, uh, would, would totally be contextualized digitally. And so there's, there's lots of 00:59:57.720 --> 01:00:03.340 opportunities I think for learning there, but cool. Uh, man, this has been great as we're, as we're 01:00:03.340 --> 01:00:10.180 wrapping up today. Uh, in any, any closing thoughts? No, man. Appreciate, appreciate you always have 01:00:10.180 --> 01:00:17.060 appreciate church digital. Um, I'm telling you, man, 15 years from now starring Brad Pitt. It's going 01:00:17.060 --> 01:00:24.100 to be a movie on Netflix talking about how the church figured out how to invade and engage people 01:00:24.100 --> 01:00:30.960 living in digital environments. And there was a little Jesus revolution in VR environments, 01:00:31.080 --> 01:00:37.760 Decentraland environments, leveraging blockchain. It's coming. And I don't, I can't think of any 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:43.480 other actor to play you. Yeah. Yeah. It's, it's Brad, Brad Pitt or Brad Pitt. Uh, and if somebody 01:00:43.480 --> 01:00:48.420 says whoever, whoever the George Costanza guy, that guy should play Jeff. I don't like you, but 01:00:48.420 --> 01:00:54.000 everybody else is good. It's good. Oh my gosh. All right. Hey, we're, we're, we're going to wrap. 01:00:54.080 --> 01:00:59.120 This has been so cool. Hey, Lucas, thanks for hanging out with us. Lucas Pulley. What Lucas, 01:00:59.220 --> 01:01:04.520 what are you, are you director of Tampa of underground network? What's the actual title? I feel like I am 01:01:04.520 --> 01:01:08.900 one, I am one of the executive directors of underground network. There's one of the executive 01:01:08.900 --> 01:01:17.080 and executive director. But my, my, my business card, my business card says that I am a, a trans 01:01:17.080 --> 01:01:25.040 dimensional architect paradigm thinker. You know, that's my printed title. Um, not just trans 01:01:25.040 --> 01:01:33.240 dimensional trans timeline, metaverse, metaverse, global multiverse pastor. I actually, I'm not sure 01:01:33.240 --> 01:01:38.880 if he's serious or not right now. Um, I'm not going to lie. He said trans and I was like, 01:01:39.060 --> 01:01:44.840 where is this conversation going? You just took me to a whole other realm. Where did we go? Where did 01:01:44.840 --> 01:01:52.340 we go? We're not great with titles. We always joke about titles, man. We're always joking about 01:01:52.340 --> 01:01:58.420 titles, but I, I'm one of three executive directors of underground network. We try to have a plurality of 01:01:58.420 --> 01:02:05.280 leadership at every level of the organization. So love it. Um, yeah. Yeah. Awesome. For that guy, 01:02:05.820 --> 01:02:11.440 plurality of leadership, one of the executive directors who, uh, serves the underground network, 01:02:11.440 --> 01:02:17.920 but does not live in Tampa. Uh, you know what? I, I, I told, I'll, I'll end on this. I told Jesse, 01:02:17.920 --> 01:02:24.360 I mean, I really, and I still do. I would love to move to Tampa. Like a, I kind of liked the vibe on 01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:28.540 Tampa, West coast, best coast in Florida. I understand. I always love the Gulf coast. 01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:34.780 There's been some hurricane issues. Like I want to get past, but I, I like when I moved to Tampa, 01:02:35.040 --> 01:02:41.700 get a spot on the, on the beach and like, dude, I would love to work with you guys and help out 01:02:41.700 --> 01:02:47.560 what you're, what you're doing. I just, I've, I've loved that now. Come on. None of my family agrees 01:02:47.560 --> 01:02:55.920 with me. There's some barriers to kind of get that to happen. Maybe we should be praying through those 01:02:55.920 --> 01:03:01.860 barriers, but my son's got to graduate. My son's a freshman coming up in September. And so, you know, 01:03:01.860 --> 01:03:06.040 if you want to pray that he could like graduate four years in one year, so we could leave Miami, 01:03:06.260 --> 01:03:11.380 that would be awesome. But I don't, I don't, he's smart, but he's, he's not that smart. I'm just saying. 01:03:12.020 --> 01:03:17.380 So we're going to, and the best part is it's summer. So they're totally around here listening to me 01:03:17.380 --> 01:03:22.040 have this conversation. Cause I'm loud when I do this. So it's good. Hey, we're, we're, we're going 01:03:22.040 --> 01:03:28.040 to wrap for, uh, for Lucas with, uh, underground network. This is Jeff, uh, with the church digital. 01:03:28.040 --> 01:03:32.980 Thanks for hanging out with us today. And, uh, we'll see you all next time. Have a good one.