WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.540 All right. Hey, everybody. This is Jeff here, the Church Digital, episode 347 here of the 00:00:08.540 --> 00:00:16.340 podcast. Doing a live recording. Thanks for joining me in this chill Thursday evening. 00:00:16.900 --> 00:00:25.780 Ian coming in from the outside. This'll be fun. And yes, yes, this will be fun. I'm going 00:00:25.780 --> 00:00:32.140 to try not to tick anybody off while at the same time have a purposeful conversation behind 00:00:32.140 --> 00:00:38.040 this. And so now it was not even supposed to be what this actually is. We were supposed 00:00:38.040 --> 00:00:42.340 to have a conversation with Barbara Carnero talking about some of the work that she's 00:00:42.340 --> 00:00:49.960 doing in Word Revolution and creating some because we're in the season here talking about 00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:55.600 equipping partners and empowering tools. And so but she's a little under the weather in 00:00:55.600 --> 00:00:59.540 Barcelona and asked if we could delay. So we're going to have a conversation with Barbara 00:00:59.540 --> 00:01:09.760 here in a in a little bit. And so I literally at about 945 this morning did not have a topic 00:01:09.760 --> 00:01:15.160 to talk about here on the stream. Meanwhile, I've been having like an interesting conversation 00:01:15.160 --> 00:01:22.760 on the side, particularly in in I started to say Slack. Why do I keep saying Slack in WhatsApp? 00:01:22.760 --> 00:01:28.920 I had we're having a particularly interesting conversation in WhatsApp surrounding deconstruction 00:01:28.920 --> 00:01:40.260 over the past couple days and maybe a misrepresentation, a misunderstanding of the word and some of the concepts 00:01:40.260 --> 00:01:45.960 therein. And it was like, you know, as as I needed a new topic and seeing some of the conversations 00:01:45.960 --> 00:01:50.600 that was happening, it was like, you know what? We're going to dig into it here on the stream today. 00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:55.720 And so because of the hours, because literally it was like a two hour notice, I didn't I normally I would 00:01:55.720 --> 00:02:01.600 love to like bring in a guest for a different view or a complimentary view or somebody who's maybe better 00:02:01.600 --> 00:02:05.760 to explain this stuff because I'm not necessarily the best at this. I'll just be honest with you. 00:02:05.760 --> 00:02:12.800 But my heart is but just going to have it. And so I do want to have a a somewhat 00:02:12.800 --> 00:02:22.560 spirited but respectful conversation around this. I know when you say the word deconstruction 00:02:22.560 --> 00:02:27.720 around around people in established church, at least in North American context, 00:02:27.720 --> 00:02:36.920 is a lot of unsettledness that comes around that a lot of people get upset. Now, the American church 00:02:36.920 --> 00:02:44.240 has been deconstructed many times in the past couple decades. In the past 25 years, the U.S. 00:02:44.240 --> 00:02:54.720 church has lost 25 percent of active participants. And so like we are as a as a nation, as a as a 00:02:54.720 --> 00:02:59.960 continent, the church on this continent is is struggling. Some stats have come out recently 00:02:59.960 --> 00:03:08.320 that the new generation A and Z, they are interested in reengaging in spiritual reengaging 00:03:08.320 --> 00:03:12.800 in God. They're just not interested in the church. You know that literally there are books that are 00:03:12.800 --> 00:03:18.720 written. I like your Jesus. I don't like your church. They're so unlike Christ. That's actually it's a 00:03:18.720 --> 00:03:28.880 Gandhi quote, I believe. But there's there is a movement, a generational movement back towards 00:03:28.880 --> 00:03:35.520 spirituality or Christianity, just not in church context, in physical church context. And that's 00:03:35.520 --> 00:03:40.880 one of the reasons why, you know, the idea of digital missionaries stepping into the space, 00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:45.360 digital missionaries representing Christ, just maybe in a different context, even doing churches 00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:52.480 just digitally, maybe putting out a different ecclesiology. Like I'm going to be an ecclesiology 00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:55.840 that's respectful. I want to make sure I say the right words there. An ecclesiology that's 00:03:55.840 --> 00:04:01.360 respectful of of the Bible, maybe just reimagining some things. We're going to get into that here 00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:07.880 in a little bit. Like I, you know, it's funny. Barbara Carnero, she sat down with me. We were, 00:04:07.880 --> 00:04:15.320 this is early in our relationship. Um, and, and, and, and she says, so Jeff, like what's, 00:04:15.320 --> 00:04:22.600 what's the win in 10 years with the church digital? What's the win? And, um, I, I quickly, uh, I, 00:04:22.600 --> 00:04:27.560 honestly, I didn't even have to think about it. Uh, I said, I want to, I want to help create a, 00:04:27.560 --> 00:04:30.920 a new ecclesiologically stable, biblically sound model of church. 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:42.600 It's not violating scripture. It's re-imagining what it can be while holding true to scripture. 00:04:43.560 --> 00:04:49.240 And that's where I would suggest a little bit of this deconstruction comes into play. Now I have, 00:04:49.240 --> 00:04:58.120 I have gone through some of it here. Let's back up. Jeff, how do we even get to this point in the 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:04.120 conversation? I'm glad you asked. Uh, I'm going to push this button and hopefully it works. I forgot 00:05:04.120 --> 00:05:13.160 to check this and yes, it does work. I'm very happy. I received this email yesterday, 24 hours ago, 00:05:13.720 --> 00:05:19.160 Barna, you know, I'm on their mail list. I'm on, of course, dozens of, of organizations and 00:05:19.160 --> 00:05:23.800 corporations, mail lists and, and Barna, you know what I'm actually, I really enjoy Barna's because they 00:05:23.800 --> 00:05:29.960 give me stats every once in a while. And, uh, and it's, it's, it's a good place to be. But Barna sends 00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:35.720 me this, this email. Let me get this out of the way so I can, I can see our relationships, 00:05:36.520 --> 00:05:41.640 pastor's biggest blind spots, our relationships, pastor's biggest blind spots. And, and, you know, 00:05:41.640 --> 00:05:48.440 they've done a, um, you know, they've done a re, uh, relational flourishing is lower among pastors 00:05:48.440 --> 00:05:57.720 than congregants. Some stats that have come out. Practicing Christians are, uh, 85% are, are like 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:06.520 comfortable or deal with relationships or happy to get into it. Um, pastors, 67%, like that's almost 00:06:06.520 --> 00:06:13.640 20%, one in five drop comparatively. And, and, you know, the article goes into talk about it's a major 00:06:13.640 --> 00:06:18.440 gap in pastors, uh, lives and support systems. However, they may be unaware or unconcerned that 00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:24.040 their relational health falls behind that of, of the other group. And of course, you know, Barna, 00:06:24.440 --> 00:06:31.000 Barna's context is to help the, the established church, the physical church. And so like, there's 00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:37.560 a, uh, there's a report they want you to buy confession hour. I didn't buy the report. The website 00:06:37.560 --> 00:06:42.760 actually wasn't working yesterday and, but they fixed it today. And so, but you can go on, you can 00:06:42.760 --> 00:06:48.280 look at the report, you can buy the report. It is, um, it is going to be, um, I'm sure it's factual. 00:06:48.280 --> 00:06:53.400 I'm sure it's stable. I love my friends at Barna. I've worked with them historically over the years, 00:06:53.400 --> 00:07:03.960 but the vantage point is to help the lead pastor. And so Barna is helping the lead pastor address the 00:07:03.960 --> 00:07:11.160 weaknesses that are in play. And that's not, that's not a bad play for Barna. There's 300,000 plus 00:07:11.160 --> 00:07:17.480 evangelical churches in North, in, uh, America alone, not including, you know, the other English 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:24.360 speaking, uh, nations and congregations here in, uh, in the, you know, the Western hemisphere. And it's a 00:07:24.360 --> 00:07:30.760 great play to solve that initial problem. But, but I would, I, I, and this is what I kind of threw into, 00:07:30.760 --> 00:07:39.640 into, into WhatsApp. I was like the, that's like, um, treating the system, treating the symptom. It's 00:07:39.640 --> 00:07:46.280 treating the symptom. It's not solving the problem. You see, the problem is, is that I would suggest is 00:07:46.280 --> 00:07:52.840 that the 2025 us church in North America, and this is probably where I'm going to get some hate. Uh, 00:07:52.840 --> 00:08:02.120 the 2025 church in North America, uh, really has become a content centric model. We create content, 00:08:03.000 --> 00:08:09.880 uh, that we want to connect with people with and through that content, through that live content, 00:08:09.880 --> 00:08:15.240 through that musical worship and a, an oration, a speaker on stage, we hope to change lives. 00:08:15.880 --> 00:08:23.160 And, you know, in fairness, there is a percentage of people that, uh, would, um, connect with that 00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:32.440 type of model. In North America alone, we're seeing 25% of, of people, uh, that are actively engaged in, 00:08:32.440 --> 00:08:38.440 in the North American church in an organized, actually organized religion, 25% organized religion is 00:08:38.440 --> 00:08:46.040 the stat there. That's a Barna quote, by the way. Um, that is, uh, down 25% from year 20, 2000. 00:08:46.040 --> 00:08:52.280 So over the past 25 years, we've lost 25%. Um, this is North America. And, and I should also say, 00:08:52.280 --> 00:08:57.400 by the way, globally, you know, I understand different continents and different contexts are 00:08:57.400 --> 00:09:01.880 at different places. The, I was talking with somebody yesterday and they're seeing, you know, 00:09:01.880 --> 00:09:07.880 borderline revival in the global South, like our friends in Africa, our friends in, uh, 00:09:07.880 --> 00:09:14.600 in India, like, like the gospel is on fire in, in those contexts and they're hungry for it. 00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:23.160 Europe, Europe is, is a, um, is a D, uh, is a D church to model almost already where they, 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:27.320 people are not interested in going to the buildings at all. As a matter of fact, Christmas Eve, 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:33.400 you're more, more likely in, in England, Christmas Eve in England, you're more likely to find more 00:09:33.400 --> 00:09:40.360 people in pubs than you will in, in cathedrals. And so the understanding is that they've already 00:09:40.360 --> 00:09:48.360 walked away and there's now the church in Europe is adapting to what to do next. Now, 00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:53.000 which is funny because we're actually doing a conference for the European Digital Missionary 00:09:53.000 --> 00:09:58.840 summit. And that's going to be, uh, October 1st, missionary.digital, get more information 00:09:58.840 --> 00:10:05.320 about that. Really excited to see how Europe is adapting and using digital in these, uh, D 00:10:05.320 --> 00:10:13.640 churched in environments. So we did this report and I was, was talking about this with, with Barna, 00:10:13.640 --> 00:10:21.720 uh, uh, you know, 80, once again, 67% of pastors are, are, are comfortable with environments. 85% of 00:10:21.720 --> 00:10:28.360 people are, and, but there's a disparity between the two. Well, is it because pastors don't have 00:10:28.360 --> 00:10:32.280 people they can trust within the communities? I'll tell you the pastors that, that I've worked for 00:10:32.280 --> 00:10:38.760 often do treat people within the church, um, hands off. It's like, I can't, I'm serving you. I can't 00:10:38.760 --> 00:10:44.520 trust you. Um, um, for the organization, I can't be very open about what I'm doing. Uh, I'll, I'll tell 00:10:44.520 --> 00:10:49.000 you some of the years that I've worked in, in physical church staffs, uh, have been, you know, 00:10:49.000 --> 00:10:56.040 as, as, as, as a pastor and as a staff person, uh, have been some of the loneliest, loneliest 00:10:56.680 --> 00:11:02.040 years of, of my life. Like, um, I, I just, I, it was funny. I used to joke. It was like, yeah, 00:11:02.040 --> 00:11:08.600 the church owns my soul. It just, because it was so encompassing to serve the model of church, 00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:13.640 that, that I was, I was working in to serve the, the churches that I've worked in historically. Now, 00:11:14.760 --> 00:11:23.080 let me pause because I want to put this disclaimer. That's not to say that all churches are that way. 00:11:24.120 --> 00:11:30.840 As I say this, I'm actually interviewing and it's likely that I will be on a physical church staff, 00:11:30.840 --> 00:11:35.560 um, by the end of the summer. And we're progressing forward and moving towards, 00:11:35.560 --> 00:11:41.880 towards that sort of a conversation. So I have hope for the future church. I have hope for the 00:11:41.880 --> 00:11:48.200 physical church. And I'm glad there's organizations like Barna that are leaning in and wanting to 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:56.280 restore the model. I do, because that model is going to reach people. But through the church digital, 00:11:56.280 --> 00:12:03.240 I've, and, and I've, I've always said this, doing something different reaches someone different. 00:12:04.200 --> 00:12:13.560 And, and using a, a different model, a different type, uh, of, of way to reach and connect people. 00:12:13.560 --> 00:12:18.520 Well, you know, we're going to reach people in, in a different way. All right. So let's ask this 00:12:18.520 --> 00:12:24.120 question. Why looking at this stat, it's funny. I'm just going to, maybe I'm going to leave this up the 00:12:24.120 --> 00:12:29.240 entire time and just bounce back and forth into it. Looking at this stat right here, pastors, 00:12:29.800 --> 00:12:35.560 67% practicing Christians, 85%. What, why is that so, so important? 00:12:37.400 --> 00:12:43.160 Barna released another stat a couple of months ago. Uh, maybe it was early, early this year, late last 00:12:43.160 --> 00:12:54.440 year. Um, 47% of, um, Oh no, no, that's what it was. 53% of people that are active in a physical 00:12:54.440 --> 00:13:01.320 church. These are active church attenders. They are regularly attending church. 53% strongly trust 00:13:01.320 --> 00:13:09.400 church leadership. And, and Barna was celebrating that stat as, as a positive, a stat to prove a 00:13:09.400 --> 00:13:13.480 stat that's going to get there in a second. For me, it was interesting. You know, I've always been a 00:13:13.480 --> 00:13:20.440 flip the script guy, right? 43% of, of people, uh, in America, 43% of Americans that are actively 00:13:20.440 --> 00:13:27.160 attending church did not feel like they could say they, they strongly trusted church leadership. 00:13:27.160 --> 00:13:33.880 Now, look, there's, there's varying levels, right? There's somewhat trust, neutral, somewhat don't 00:13:33.880 --> 00:13:40.840 trust, very much not trust, whatever. Half the people who are sitting in the church building 00:13:41.240 --> 00:13:50.520 cannot say I a hundred percent trust my, my pastor. That's not a good sign. That is not a good sign. 00:13:51.400 --> 00:14:00.520 And, and why, why do you think that is? Well, in 2025, what we find is that trust comes via relationships. 00:14:03.160 --> 00:14:13.640 In 1980s, in the 1990s, in maybe even the early 2000s, an orator, a pastor, a communicator standing 00:14:13.640 --> 00:14:19.560 on stage preaching a sermon for 40 minutes would reach a mass amount of people for Christ 00:14:20.680 --> 00:14:23.720 because the culture was set up to receive in that way. 00:14:26.040 --> 00:14:33.640 Now, unfortunately, in 2025, unfortunately, maybe things have changed and, and there needs to be more, 00:14:33.640 --> 00:14:39.400 more relationship. We actually, we see this all the time. Now I cannot say with certainty that it works 00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:45.560 this way did physically. I can say with certainty it does work this way digitally, um, because I've seen 00:14:45.560 --> 00:14:52.760 it time and time and time again. Digitally, people find community before they find Christ. 00:14:53.720 --> 00:14:59.560 I don't know enough about physical church to say whether that's true, whether people find community 00:14:59.560 --> 00:15:05.960 before they find Christ. And maybe the reason that some of our churches, um, are dropping is because 00:15:05.960 --> 00:15:16.680 they don't have that, uh, that percentage. But yes, there is a, a drop in, there's a, there's a change 00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:26.680 coming where people to build trust need the relationship and the physical church model where 00:15:26.680 --> 00:15:33.320 the Sunday morning, 9am church service is the lead opportunity for evangelism. It's, 00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:40.440 it's lacking the community. Well, Jeff, there's community out in the lobby. You try being the new 00:15:40.440 --> 00:15:45.480 person out there in the lobby, uh, to build relationships with people. Yeah, it doesn't 00:15:45.480 --> 00:15:51.800 work. It, it, the, the model is flawed at some churches. Yeah. My church can do it. Maybe your 00:15:51.800 --> 00:15:59.800 church can. What I would suggest is, is that the, the model is flawed. Now, when I say the model is 00:15:59.800 --> 00:16:06.920 flawed, what, what I am not saying is that, uh, God is bogus. Christ did not die. He was just a, 00:16:06.920 --> 00:16:12.600 he did die. He did not raise from the dead. He is just a man. I'm not tearing down Christianity. 00:16:13.720 --> 00:16:20.680 I'm questioning the validity of a model. There's nowhere in scripture that it says that, 00:16:20.680 --> 00:16:27.320 um, I don't know that sermons have to be 40 minutes long. Uh, I mean, scripture, 00:16:27.320 --> 00:16:32.760 it says things like make a joyful noise. Does that mean there needs to be a, a rock band on stage leading 00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:38.600 worship? Now I love the rock band. My son plays bass, but it's a method. It's a mod. My son plays 00:16:38.600 --> 00:16:45.480 bass for my church. Like, I love it. I, I want that sub. I was, we used to joke, um, you know, 00:16:45.480 --> 00:16:50.680 when I was a production director 20 years ago, you know, say things like cue the Holy Spirit. And that 00:16:50.680 --> 00:16:57.480 would be in time to, you know, crank up the fog machine. But that's almost is, is the, is the problem, 00:16:57.480 --> 00:17:08.120 right? Because we start to create models without examining scripture, without going back, without 00:17:08.120 --> 00:17:16.920 questioning how we got to where we are. Oftentimes Christianity, church leaders, this is just my, 00:17:16.920 --> 00:17:24.600 my pitch from the outside. We're afraid of questions. It's funny. Jesus, you know, 00:17:24.600 --> 00:17:31.320 Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. Christianity has survived 2000 plus years. The 00:17:31.320 --> 00:17:37.640 Bible is a 6,000 year old document. I really don't think that I am going to ask the question 00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:46.280 that tears down the entire Christianity belief system. At least smarter people than me have tried 00:17:46.280 --> 00:17:53.960 and have failed along the way. And so taking the opportunity to, to question things. 00:17:56.440 --> 00:18:02.040 I think that's okay. Now I'm seeing some, I see some comments coming in. Let me pause here. 00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:05.720 Uh, Steve's, you know, asking questions. Did I miss anything? Dude, if you're just walking into 00:18:05.720 --> 00:18:09.800 this conversation, yes. Yes, Steve, you missed something. You may want to go back to that. 00:18:09.800 --> 00:18:15.000 Uh, Ian is saying, uh, you know, good luck in not taking anyone off with this. It's probably going 00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:21.000 to happen. It's okay. Since he sent hate email to Jeff at the church digital, I will gladly embrace 00:18:21.000 --> 00:18:27.640 it and respond. Um, um, that would be 33% still not good. I think that may be Scott. I saw when you 00:18:27.640 --> 00:18:33.000 said that, I think that was around the people that are questioning. My stats may be off, but for, 00:18:33.000 --> 00:18:39.800 I said 43% of people, uh, don't trust physical church leadership. And it may, it may, I thought 00:18:39.800 --> 00:18:47.960 it was 57, 43, but you're saying it may have been 67, 33. That's fair. Either way, your points got 00:18:47.960 --> 00:18:56.760 still not good. And so what I would propose to you. Oh, just my math. Yeah. Okay. Just, yeah. Yeah. 00:18:56.760 --> 00:19:03.080 Listen, my, my, my, my wife teaches AP calculus. My daughter just got a five. She's a, she just 00:19:03.080 --> 00:19:09.640 graduated her sophomore year in high school. She just got a college level, uh, credit for college 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:16.760 calculus. Uh, and so, yeah, I'm, I'm the dumb one in the family when it comes to, when it comes to 00:19:16.760 --> 00:19:24.120 that stuff. Thanks. Thanks for that, Scott. Um, the, yeah, so it's 50, 57% of people, uh, trust 00:19:24.120 --> 00:19:33.240 church leadership. 43% do not. That was the stat that, um, yeah, that's right. 57, 43, nine, 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:37.800 carry the one 10. Um, you're making, you're making me question myself here, Scott. All right, look, 00:19:38.520 --> 00:19:45.400 where, where, where I'm going with this is that there's this word deconstruction that's floating 00:19:45.400 --> 00:19:52.520 around in church space and it, and it has a, and it has a negative connotation. Deconstruction, 00:19:52.520 --> 00:19:57.120 the way that the majority of church leaders in North America, and I would suggest outside of North 00:19:57.120 --> 00:20:02.760 America, deconstruction is, is a negative term because it means that you cannot question what's 00:20:02.760 --> 00:20:10.520 happening within the church. I, I, I would suggest that we need to question what's in the church. 00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:16.920 I would suggest that where there's actually biblical models in place and examples of where people 00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.760 questioned what was in the church. We just need to make sure that we're 00:20:21.720 --> 00:20:27.160 quantifying it against something. Now, you know, let's, it was, was interesting. I actually, 00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:32.120 I think Scott, I was picking on you a little bit in, in, in WhatsApp. Um, you know, the idea, 00:20:32.120 --> 00:20:37.720 I would actually suggest that, that Christ was in, I don't want to, I love Scott. It's not about Scott. 00:20:38.280 --> 00:20:45.080 Um, I would suggest that Christ actually was the, the, the first, you know, if Christ is a Christian, 00:20:45.080 --> 00:20:52.560 we can have that term, but he was one of the first within the Christian circles to deconstruct 00:20:52.560 --> 00:20:59.800 religion. He stood up against the Pharisees and the Sadducees, uh, questions, their beliefs, 00:21:00.360 --> 00:21:06.400 quantified it against existing scripture to show where they were wrong and started a movement of, of people 00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:14.320 towards that, that direction. He started collecting people that were, that recognized, that saw the 00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:22.080 world that he saw, and they went to him for more learnings and teachings on that space, which is a 00:21:22.080 --> 00:21:32.480 great thing. We want to be, uh, questioning. We want to be learning. We should be open to more ways to 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:38.400 recognize in, in scripture and in those teachings. We're here and here from, from flat cap coming in. 00:21:38.400 --> 00:21:43.760 Deconstruction is only negative to the establishment, not those who are questioning. 00:21:44.640 --> 00:21:49.920 Now it's interesting, flat cap. I want to get to this and rebuilding their faith. 00:21:51.360 --> 00:21:58.880 I think asking questions is, is great. What you do after you deconstruct, when you rebuild, 00:21:58.880 --> 00:22:06.640 that's where it's interesting, um, here, uh, to insist on, uh, on a standard is oppression. Scott, 00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:11.600 that's, that's a, that's a great vantage point. I was actually talking about in the WhatsApp, 00:22:11.600 --> 00:22:17.840 that deconstruction is actually necessary to get into contextualization, pairing together the two 00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:23.920 ideas of deconstruction and contextualization that you want to get down to that, that, you know, 00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:30.160 ecclesiological minimal. Okay. You know, if we're planting digital churches, what is a church? 00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:37.520 Let's boil everything out. The 10,000 person mega church model is not the standard for a micro 00:22:37.520 --> 00:22:43.360 church or a digital church. What is the standard? And then how do we do that digitally? Um, the 00:22:43.360 --> 00:22:49.120 misdefinition of the word comes from the establishment. That's interesting, Scott. 00:22:49.920 --> 00:22:53.600 A lot of wisdom in that. Scott actually works for a physical church, used to work for a physical 00:22:53.600 --> 00:23:00.000 church. I don't, is in the process of retiring. It may be retiring any, any day now, but he actually, 00:23:00.000 --> 00:23:06.560 when he says that he's got some experience behind those words. Deconstruction 00:23:08.240 --> 00:23:15.760 does not challenge Christ. Deconstruction. Christ is the same. Christ is, is read the end of the book. 00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:23.440 Revelations 2 and 3 is nothing but deconstructing of churches. Dude, you've lost your first love. Get 00:23:23.440 --> 00:23:31.360 back in there. Like questioning the established norm is not a, is not deconstructing a model. Let 00:23:31.360 --> 00:23:36.880 me make it a model, not established norm. Deconstructing a model is not a bad thing. Um, 00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:47.360 it's but to Christ. But what it does do is it questions the model. Uh, deconstruction challenges, um, 00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:55.760 opinions. Deconstruction challenges beliefs. Now, if deconstruction takes you away from Christ, 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:02.400 listen, there's plenty of examples of that, uh, of people that have, have deconstructed 00:24:03.040 --> 00:24:07.360 and, and where it's not deconstructing the church, it's gone to deconstructing their faith. 00:24:09.440 --> 00:24:17.040 Well, I hate to say this, but, you know, Christ said many of, many of will say, Lord, Lord, 00:24:17.040 --> 00:24:22.880 and, and I'll say, depart from me for I never knew you. Like there's plenty of examples scripturally 00:24:23.440 --> 00:24:31.440 of, of, of how people walked away from their belief. Or, I mean, shoot, we could even take Judas as an 00:24:31.440 --> 00:24:39.360 example. Judas never was on the same page as Jesus, in my opinion. Judas was looking for a, a military 00:24:39.360 --> 00:24:44.960 king, which was not what Christ was about. Judas wanted his revolution, uh, at the malicious 00:24:44.960 --> 00:24:52.960 standpoint, and Christ was looking for it in, in a different way. And so Judas, when Judas had to 00:24:52.960 --> 00:24:58.560 deconstruct, hey, this guy is not the, the, the military general that I was thinking it was going 00:24:58.560 --> 00:25:06.880 to be. When he deconstructed, he lost his faith at the same time. Now we can beat that up and, and 00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:13.600 you're happy to, to wordsmith that around. But the, the fact is, is that deconstructing faith, 00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:19.840 well, maybe you never understood what faith was at the beginning. Because the whole part of faith is 00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:24.480 believing in something you can't prove. So deconstructing something you can't prove means 00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:29.760 that you never really understood what you were doing in the first place. 00:25:32.400 --> 00:25:36.800 Get into that. Hey, we've got some great, uh, comments coming in. Sermon on the Mount was a 00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:44.320 bit of deconstruction and reconstruction of God's word. That is, that is true. I, I do, I use the Sermon on the 00:25:44.320 --> 00:25:52.000 Mount all the time, uh, as, as, uh, you know, blessed are the, uh, as, as establishing what, 00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:57.920 what we, the church are to be. And that was, uh, quantifiably different. That was challenging 00:25:57.920 --> 00:26:03.360 to many who had heard it at, at the time. Uh, and so, so good. I have, uh, Scott saying here, 00:26:03.360 --> 00:26:08.080 I have no problem with reform, recontextualization, or any other term we're using. None of it is, is 00:26:08.080 --> 00:26:13.040 deconstruction. Uh, I know you can't talk and follow the chat, but your definition of the word is, 00:26:13.040 --> 00:26:18.960 is wrong. Now, I, I, I actually appreciate that. I, I, I would flip, Scott, I would flip the script 00:26:18.960 --> 00:26:24.800 on you. Uh, I actually think that the way that we are using the word deconstruction is right. 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:31.520 Um, in that, if you, if you look at the pure, um, you know, I'm talking Webster's dictionary 00:26:31.520 --> 00:26:39.840 definition of deconstruction, um, it's, it's grounded in, in the way that we're talking about it, 00:26:39.840 --> 00:26:47.380 looking at something and breaking it down. The, the problem is, is that culture in North America is 00:26:47.380 --> 00:26:52.000 using it wrong. I don't, I don't want to, I don't want to wordsmith on this because Scott, I do, 00:26:52.340 --> 00:27:02.260 I do understand your heart is, is that what we're trying to do is break down, um, the way things are 00:27:02.260 --> 00:27:11.520 perceived to be and, and re-engage it with the source code, so to speak, scripture, and then re-engage 00:27:11.520 --> 00:27:16.640 in an appropriate method. We're seeing some of the weakness in physical church. Uh, we're seeing some 00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:21.900 of the, uh, how it's, it's physical church is missing in culture because there's a disconnect 00:27:21.900 --> 00:27:27.020 in relationships and, and, and, and content and some of that, maybe a mindset, maybe a move away 00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:33.080 from discipleship. And we're trying to create a new model using digital that's re-engaging and that's 00:27:33.080 --> 00:27:40.520 open to, um, a, a different mindset. Uh, but it's, is based on, like I said, that source code, 00:27:40.560 --> 00:27:45.880 that, that, that scripture and it's re-engaging in that. Um, listen, if it's, if it's deconstruction, 00:27:45.960 --> 00:27:52.660 if it's reconstruction, I appreciate your, your, your term, Scott. But my, my point is, is that 00:27:52.660 --> 00:28:00.520 people have misconstrued, church leaders have misconstrued any form of questioning as negative. 00:28:01.080 --> 00:28:07.120 The majority of leaders, you may be different, but it's, no, you can't, can't question that. 00:28:07.620 --> 00:28:12.300 That's, that's, you know, that's non-negotiable. I've, I've worked in environments where that, 00:28:12.360 --> 00:28:19.940 that lead pastor was, you know, king, uh, where it was, um, there was no questioning and, and he had 00:28:19.940 --> 00:28:27.380 final say. Uh, I, I can tell you some stories. I don't want to on that. But, um, the, the fact is, 00:28:27.380 --> 00:28:33.700 is that scripture, we actually saw this and it was, I, I, I shared in one of the WhatsApp groups, 00:28:33.700 --> 00:28:38.100 um, it took me a while to remember their names. I had to, ironically, I had to ask chat GPT, hey, 00:28:38.560 --> 00:28:43.440 who are those people in scripture that were allowed to, to question or that, you know, that, 00:28:43.580 --> 00:28:48.940 that Paul said that the, um, they questioned, and it was the Bereans. It's actually in Acts 17. 00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:56.740 Paul went to go talk to the Bereans and, and it was mentioned that the Bereans would, uh, 00:28:56.740 --> 00:29:01.940 Acts 17, uh, I think nine to 12. I can actually read it right here. 10 to 12. As soon as was 00:29:01.940 --> 00:29:08.220 night, the believers sent Paul and Silas away to Berea. On arriving there, they went to the Jewish 00:29:08.220 --> 00:29:14.660 synagogue. Now the Bereans, uh, the Berean Jews were of noble character, uh, than those in Thessalonica 00:29:14.660 --> 00:29:21.120 for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the scriptures every day to see if 00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:28.300 Paul said was true. As a result, many of them believed and also did a number of prominent 00:29:28.300 --> 00:29:32.600 Greek women and many Greek men. It's interesting. I don't think I ever caught the Greek part, 00:29:32.600 --> 00:29:38.160 but that's what we're supposed to do. 00:29:39.440 --> 00:30:04.360 Like, is, is it better to, to hear the Sunday sermon and, and not cross-reference it in scripture? Or, or is it better to hear the Sunday sermon and cross-reference it in scripture to, to, to, to challenge and to own the belief? You know, as, as, as a youth pastor, I would, I would tell, tell, I told my kids, you know, when you hear something, look it up. I was, was funny. My, my pastor was actually quoted something. 00:30:04.440 --> 00:30:23.500 Maybe it was last week. It was two weeks ago. And, and it was funny when, when he said it, I actually opened up chat. He quoted a couple stats and I was like, I don't know that that's true. And I, and I actually, I went into chat GPT and I was like, find this stat or something close to that stat because my, my pastor didn't list a reference. He just threw it at the number out there. 00:30:24.300 --> 00:30:28.240 And, and, and, and I just wanted to cross-reference it to better understand it. 00:30:31.100 --> 00:30:39.880 Questioning is, is a form of respect if the people you're questioning are aligned to scripture. 00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:46.580 The Bereans who were not believers were questioning what Paul was saying. 00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:55.740 They were, they were Jews, but the Bereans were questioning Paul and found by scripture and found what Paul was saying to be true. 00:30:56.600 --> 00:30:58.060 That's a form of respect. 00:30:58.300 --> 00:31:01.080 Dude, I, I, I cross-checked you and you're right. 00:31:02.840 --> 00:31:13.540 Where it's disrespectful or where there gets to be a problem is if the Bereans are cross-referencing Paul against scripture and are finding that Paul is not accurate. 00:31:16.980 --> 00:31:26.440 Church leaders that are afraid of being questioned because their, their motives or the directions or what they're talking about is not affirmed in scripture. 00:31:28.440 --> 00:31:39.400 Man, you're, you're, you're, you're picking a battle without having your, your greatest tool, scripture, God, the Holy Spirit, on, on, on your side. 00:31:40.680 --> 00:31:52.580 Like, why, why would you, this is why I just, I love, I love scripture so much in this because scripture is the strength, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's the, it's, it's the strength of, of the battle. 00:31:52.580 --> 00:31:58.080 It's what makes your, I'm trying to actually think what is in the, in the armor of God. 00:31:58.180 --> 00:32:02.760 What is the, it's, it's the breastplate of righteousness, sword of the spirit, the gospel. 00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:03.880 It's the sword, is it not? 00:32:03.980 --> 00:32:05.280 The gospel is the, is the sword. 00:32:05.980 --> 00:32:08.320 But it really, it's, it's an essential part. 00:32:08.400 --> 00:32:10.040 I'll generalize it because I don't have it memorized. 00:32:10.040 --> 00:32:10.640 I'm sorry. 00:32:11.160 --> 00:32:15.740 But it is the, it's the strength of what we're getting into. 00:32:16.620 --> 00:32:18.880 It's the strength of our armor. 00:32:19.660 --> 00:32:29.520 And, and to not use scripture in, in, in such a way, it just doesn't make sense. 00:32:36.520 --> 00:32:49.160 I think that there's a, a strong emphasis on misunderstanding in, in, in a lot of this misunderstanding and posture. 00:32:49.160 --> 00:32:55.620 Even going back to what Hosea is talking about here, about the, the Sermon on the Mount. 00:32:57.620 --> 00:33:04.820 Who is, um, blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. 00:33:04.920 --> 00:33:06.320 Blessed are they that mourn. 00:33:06.860 --> 00:33:07.800 Blessed are the meek. 00:33:08.360 --> 00:33:26.960 Um, and the, the posture of the people that Jesus is calling towards in, in this, in this, in the Sermon on the Mount are, are in a position of, of humility, are in a position of, of weakness, are in a position of, of where they have to be dependent on God. 00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:50.940 And, and, and that, I would suggest, that questioning, that deconstruction, shirks away, reconstruction, the process of boiling refiner's fire, taking out any of the imperfections, internal questioning, okay, where am I off in this? 00:33:51.320 --> 00:34:04.480 Actually, in, in, in, in counterchecking that against God, actually brings us closer to alignment with him, which brings, makes the questions not seem as, as impactful. 00:34:09.000 --> 00:34:10.460 I am a control freak. 00:34:10.840 --> 00:34:11.480 I am. 00:34:11.680 --> 00:34:13.580 I'm, I'm, I'm a, I'm a recovering control freak. 00:34:14.180 --> 00:34:21.300 Uh, if you would have looked at me maybe even three years ago, two years ago, if you would have looked at me last week, there's probably some level of control. 00:34:21.320 --> 00:34:29.680 My control freak still in me, um, but I, my, my control freak was actually, this is confession hour for me here. 00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:37.700 My, my control freak is actually, um, a, a testimony to my lack of belief in my leadership capacity. 00:34:38.180 --> 00:34:42.780 This is, this is the unfiltered hour of, of the church digital. 00:34:43.780 --> 00:34:50.820 I would, um, challenge, I, that I had to fight for everything to keep it the way that I wanted, 00:34:50.820 --> 00:34:52.180 because that was what I wanted. 00:34:52.660 --> 00:35:05.180 And, uh, I was, I was constantly battling against others because I was fearful of different, um, different mindsets that would challenge my power. 00:35:05.900 --> 00:35:12.820 Uh, and that, that I would lose my power and influence that I had, um, because I did not want to, um, 00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:16.180 yeah, I was addicted to the power. 00:35:17.400 --> 00:35:23.740 And, and my control freakness is actually, man, that really cost me a lot. 00:35:25.140 --> 00:35:27.220 Get more into that at a later point if you want. 00:35:27.980 --> 00:35:36.880 The fact is, is that recognizing that God is God, whether or not I'm right, and God can use me, whether or not I'm right. 00:35:38.140 --> 00:35:40.680 That really opened up a lot of eyes. 00:35:41.980 --> 00:35:53.480 You see, I, I, I, I had a misunderstanding of, of what God was, what God is. 00:35:54.440 --> 00:35:59.340 I still struggle with it, that, that faith and that dependence on him. 00:36:00.140 --> 00:36:02.920 I am, I'm, I'm, I'm a systems guy. 00:36:03.440 --> 00:36:05.200 I'm a processes guy. 00:36:05.940 --> 00:36:09.640 I, um, you know, build the model, let it run. 00:36:13.120 --> 00:36:15.700 Turn around and say, hey God, look at what I did for you. 00:36:20.720 --> 00:36:22.720 It took deconstruction for me. 00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:27.380 Word, insert whatever word you want and want there. 00:36:27.720 --> 00:36:32.540 It took questioning what I was doing. 00:36:34.220 --> 00:36:35.900 Counterbalancing it against scripture. 00:36:37.680 --> 00:36:53.940 Talking to others of faith and, and being open and transparent to their negative feedback for me to start to understand where, what I was doing, even though it was modeled by many, many, many other Christian leaders, was wrong. 00:36:55.580 --> 00:37:01.600 And I had to be broken to be rebuilt. 00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:20.540 I had to take that, that model, that desire, that control freakness out and, and reinsert in, um, the humility that I see in, in scripture, the humility that I see in the Beatitudes, uh, the, the, um, you know, the, the fruits of the spirit. 00:37:20.660 --> 00:37:21.180 What do I find? 00:37:21.260 --> 00:37:24.540 Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. 00:37:24.660 --> 00:37:28.880 Notice that control freak was not one of, of those terms. 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:37.780 Um, you know, it, uh, the, um, the, um, the Beatitudes are not saying blessed are the powerful. 00:37:41.860 --> 00:37:49.320 Pretty sure you can find some power hungry churches in, uh, Rev 2 and 3, by the way. 00:37:51.000 --> 00:37:56.840 Shoot, even the early church, there was questioning in what was happening there. 00:37:56.840 --> 00:38:06.220 As Paul was moving on his missionary journey and jacked up excited and started reaching the Gentiles. 00:38:07.120 --> 00:38:13.140 In the early church, the converted Jews were like, what the crap? 00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.320 No, no, no, no, no, they can't do that. 00:38:17.440 --> 00:38:18.740 And there were questions. 00:38:19.340 --> 00:38:20.700 Well, what do you do when there are questions? 00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:25.660 Let's go back to, I mean, now it's, let's go to Paul's epistles and get that figured out. 00:38:25.660 --> 00:38:28.820 But at the time, you're going to counterbalance that through scripture. 00:38:29.480 --> 00:38:31.720 You're going to counterbalance that through prayer. 00:38:32.300 --> 00:38:37.540 You're going to counterbalance that through people that are in your life. 00:38:37.780 --> 00:38:39.060 How does God speak? 00:38:39.660 --> 00:38:41.660 Experiencing God 101, you can dig into that. 00:38:42.060 --> 00:38:47.600 The book's been around a long time and it still is valid today as it was 50 years ago when it was written, 48 years ago. 00:38:50.760 --> 00:39:03.180 The point being is if we don't question ourselves, if we don't question what we hear, that creates a above reproach approach, 00:39:03.540 --> 00:39:08.600 which creates this control-free, power-hungry model. 00:39:11.540 --> 00:39:21.960 If you look at the church, if you look at the North American church today, maybe what's one of the more popular complaints? 00:39:23.660 --> 00:39:25.000 Why do we not trust? 00:39:27.200 --> 00:39:28.920 You've got people that are power-hungry. 00:39:29.020 --> 00:39:29.960 They want to do their own thing. 00:39:30.040 --> 00:39:31.400 They're not listening to those around. 00:39:32.040 --> 00:39:36.500 And maybe, just maybe, what they're doing doesn't always line up to what they see in scripture. 00:39:43.220 --> 00:39:48.260 Maybe instead of trying to treat the symptom, we need to solve the problem. 00:39:49.960 --> 00:39:51.120 I appreciate, Scott. 00:39:51.400 --> 00:39:53.020 You know, Scott, this is not about you. 00:39:53.240 --> 00:39:58.780 I just, you're one of many that are saying, you know, use a different word. 00:39:59.540 --> 00:40:00.380 And maybe we need to. 00:40:00.520 --> 00:40:05.440 I mean, shoot, I'm the guy that, Fidgetal, I own Hybrid.Church. 00:40:05.540 --> 00:40:07.980 Like, I use, I mean, I make up words all the time. 00:40:08.680 --> 00:40:11.180 Maybe we need to figure out a new word here. 00:40:15.160 --> 00:40:24.580 But it's not so much about challenging God as much as what you do once you challenge God. 00:40:25.600 --> 00:40:28.540 What you do with the information when you get it back. 00:40:29.740 --> 00:40:31.080 Job questioned God. 00:40:32.760 --> 00:40:39.940 And, you know, Job, it's towards the end of the book, what, 37, I'm guessing, 47, towards, you know, God answers back. 00:40:41.020 --> 00:40:42.760 Who are you to question me? 00:40:42.860 --> 00:40:46.880 Where were you when I created the suns and the earth and separated the water from the blah, blah, blah? 00:40:47.160 --> 00:40:54.740 Look, it's, it's all about, it's all about approach. 00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:56.620 It's all about posture. 00:40:56.900 --> 00:41:03.100 And, and maybe, just maybe, it's, it's all about what we do with the information once we have it. 00:41:05.000 --> 00:41:06.880 Many walked away from the church. 00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:10.780 Many walked away from God when they should have been walking away from the church. 00:41:14.380 --> 00:41:27.900 In today's contextualization, in today's contextualized, in today's bifurcated experiment, experience, culture, you can't get anybody to agree on everything. 00:41:30.060 --> 00:41:34.980 The physical church model, it's not bad. 00:41:35.120 --> 00:41:37.120 Like I said, I'm, I'm actually going to go work for one. 00:41:37.280 --> 00:41:40.960 I, I, I want to re-engage with, with the physical church. 00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:42.680 And there are physical churches that get it. 00:41:42.680 --> 00:41:59.120 There are church leaders that, and pastors that are, are humble enough to, to create a, um, a culture and experience, uh, of discipleship that is, is beautiful within the church. 00:41:59.420 --> 00:42:08.500 And for those pastors in those churches, I'm not necessarily bemoaning you, but they're the, they're the exception to the acceptable rule. 00:42:11.300 --> 00:42:15.160 Maybe it's time for us to deconstruct. 00:42:15.380 --> 00:42:16.960 Maybe it's time for us to question. 00:42:17.580 --> 00:42:22.880 Maybe it's time for us to get back to the way that it used to be. 00:42:24.020 --> 00:42:31.040 And, and do something then to contextualize it. 00:42:32.020 --> 00:42:33.760 This, this is rough. 00:42:34.220 --> 00:42:38.100 Like, this is literally fresh thought over the past 12 hours. 00:42:38.620 --> 00:42:39.940 Where I, I was funny. 00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:41.260 I'm actually, you're going to laugh. 00:42:41.420 --> 00:42:49.260 Um, so, you know, the church digital, we're doing digital missionary conference, 2025, September, October, missionary.digital. 00:42:49.320 --> 00:42:51.120 Get more information about the conference. 00:42:51.220 --> 00:42:54.020 There are 250 people have already registered for the conference. 00:42:54.060 --> 00:42:54.940 Excited about that. 00:42:55.040 --> 00:43:05.640 We'll have, uh, hopefully, you know, 10X that, uh, when all said and done, uh, for the four summits we're doing, uh, uh, September 17th, 24th, October 1st and 8th. 00:43:05.960 --> 00:43:07.460 More information on missionary digital. 00:43:08.520 --> 00:43:09.680 But this is funny. 00:43:09.680 --> 00:43:17.260 I, I actually, I started working on, um, the spring 26th conference. 00:43:18.420 --> 00:43:22.640 Because Barbara and the word revolution team say, Jeff, you need to get the conferences a year out. 00:43:22.960 --> 00:43:25.380 And so it's like, fine, I got, I got to start planning spring. 00:43:25.720 --> 00:43:29.200 By the way, it's going to probably be a late April if you're really interested. 00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:40.520 But where I'm going with that, where I'm going with that is I started putting together words that don't make sense together. 00:43:41.860 --> 00:43:50.560 But flipping the script to show that they do make sense together when we understand what those words mean. 00:43:51.480 --> 00:43:56.840 And, and, and I actually, I, I put together just, and this is me being stupid. 00:43:57.140 --> 00:43:58.600 This is me brainstorming. 00:43:58.660 --> 00:44:02.800 This is me finding threads and nuances and, and, and doing this together. 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:06.780 And I created like a, maybe 15 to 20 pairs of words. 00:44:07.140 --> 00:44:12.040 You know, I'm talking like synchronous and asynchronous now, you know, as a digital missionary, you need to utilize both. 00:44:12.420 --> 00:44:13.660 That's, that's okay. 00:44:13.680 --> 00:44:14.960 That makes sense to go together. 00:44:15.140 --> 00:44:25.640 And, you know, and, and, and, um, you know, I'm talking, uh, broken to be healed, um, and, um, healed, healed need, or, um, I forget what that one was. 00:44:25.700 --> 00:44:26.920 I can pull the document up. 00:44:28.060 --> 00:44:34.940 The one that I put together in this was pairing together deconstruction and contextualization and putting them together. 00:44:37.140 --> 00:44:45.340 To figure out how best to contextualize digital church, micro church. 00:44:45.480 --> 00:44:46.140 And you know what? 00:44:46.220 --> 00:44:52.100 And actually, um, our friend, Alan Hirsch down in, in Australia, he's so good at this. 00:44:55.460 --> 00:44:59.960 I heard him before I knew Alan, uh, before I barely knew Alan. 00:45:00.200 --> 00:45:05.640 Um, I, I, I heard Alan speak on this at an exponential and just blew my mind. 00:45:06.280 --> 00:45:14.060 Um, you know, talking about the ecclesiological, minimal ecclesiology, uh, ecclesiological norms. 00:45:14.420 --> 00:45:17.640 What is the, the minimum level of, of a church? 00:45:18.920 --> 00:45:20.320 What does a church need? 00:45:20.720 --> 00:45:28.400 You know, it's interesting with the church that I'm, um, um, talking to right now, they've got a situation. 00:45:28.500 --> 00:45:29.200 I'll tell the story. 00:45:29.320 --> 00:45:33.640 I, I, I don't think Kit, I'm sorry if I shouldn't have said this. 00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:35.220 I'm going to go ahead and say it. 00:45:35.700 --> 00:45:36.940 Kit's the missions director. 00:45:37.120 --> 00:45:39.040 Kit's actually on the board of directors for the church. 00:45:39.120 --> 00:45:41.400 Digital is the missions director at that, at this church. 00:45:41.500 --> 00:45:42.900 I won't say the name of the church, 00:45:42.900 --> 00:45:56.700 but, um, they are planting a hundred, they're working with an organization in a country. 00:45:56.700 --> 00:46:07.600 I can't say that are planting a hundred churches, house churches, micro churches in this communist 00:46:07.600 --> 00:46:08.100 country. 00:46:08.200 --> 00:46:21.540 I cannot say, and, um, they, uh, started anyway, they said to me, Jeff, would you help? 00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:31.280 And so, you know, digital discipleship, um, digital community peer to peer. 00:46:32.860 --> 00:46:36.080 Yeah, I can help with that contextualization. 00:46:36.340 --> 00:46:37.860 Yeah, I can help with that. 00:46:38.200 --> 00:46:44.380 And so, you know, I, I sat down with, uh, with the, the church and started to brainstorm. 00:46:44.560 --> 00:46:48.220 Okay, like I can create the, the framework and the, the model. 00:46:49.020 --> 00:46:51.620 Um, but what are we, what are we doing? 00:46:51.700 --> 00:46:53.880 Like, what, what is it, what does the church mean to you? 00:46:55.020 --> 00:47:03.620 And, and the idea was to take the, that church's model of a mega church model, a mega multi-site 00:47:03.620 --> 00:47:13.240 church model and boil it down for international, uh, multi-lingual micro in a communist country. 00:47:17.640 --> 00:47:18.680 Let's not do that. 00:47:20.620 --> 00:47:24.480 Because there's so much that's built into what happens at the physical church level. 00:47:24.480 --> 00:47:27.220 That's opinions at, at, at, at mega church level. 00:47:27.220 --> 00:47:28.180 That's opinions. 00:47:28.180 --> 00:47:29.500 It's, it's not of Christ. 00:47:29.500 --> 00:47:33.280 And it's so hard to, you know, that refiner's fire. 00:47:33.660 --> 00:47:40.100 It's so hard to take out all of those things to get it down where it's small, simple, and 00:47:40.100 --> 00:47:40.980 reproducible. 00:47:41.900 --> 00:47:44.260 No, like it's, you, you, you can't. 00:47:44.940 --> 00:47:50.020 Now, I mean, it can, it takes a lot of time and it's extremely painful. 00:47:50.020 --> 00:47:55.400 And because it's painful because you're, you're, you're pruning, you're, you're, you're 00:47:55.400 --> 00:48:00.700 cutting things off and, and, and like, you know, you're snipping leaves when you're pruning 00:48:00.700 --> 00:48:07.940 a branch, like the pruning hurts in the opinions that you have of how the church is and what 00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:08.600 church is. 00:48:08.660 --> 00:48:09.880 That's extra biblical. 00:48:09.880 --> 00:48:11.360 It's outside of the Bible. 00:48:11.360 --> 00:48:16.680 That doesn't make it bad, but over tradition and over the years, all of a sudden what you 00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:22.640 thought wasn't a big deal is now a big deal because it's been baked into your entire model, 00:48:22.820 --> 00:48:32.420 which once again works for your model, but may not work in a multilingual communist country. 00:48:35.460 --> 00:48:39.800 For us to contextualize things, you've got to deconstruct it. 00:48:40.280 --> 00:48:43.000 You've got to break it down to that norm. 00:48:43.100 --> 00:48:48.160 You've got to, um, you know, I, I, man, I, Scott, I appreciate you. 00:48:48.260 --> 00:48:49.320 I love you. 00:48:49.420 --> 00:48:52.680 If I can't say the word deconstruction, I don't know what to say. 00:48:53.320 --> 00:48:55.380 Reconstruction is still going to be deconstruction. 00:48:55.380 --> 00:49:04.420 Um, but I, I just, I, you've got to be able to break it down and do something with it. 00:49:08.420 --> 00:49:09.900 I still attest today. 00:49:10.020 --> 00:49:14.080 God is not afraid of deconstruction over the years. 00:49:14.200 --> 00:49:23.400 I'm sure God has faced many of these time periods historically where Christians were doing 00:49:23.400 --> 00:49:33.600 not smart things in the name of Christ, the crusades, and was causing some cultural shifts. 00:49:34.980 --> 00:49:39.880 And, you know, maybe the church needed a little realignment. 00:49:41.440 --> 00:49:42.140 I don't know. 00:49:42.700 --> 00:49:48.400 Maybe one day somebody will hammer a bunch of theses on a door somewhere and, and that, 00:49:48.500 --> 00:49:49.440 that'll be the new norm. 00:49:49.440 --> 00:49:52.820 Or somebody will publish a YouTube video and that'll be the new norm. 00:49:53.060 --> 00:50:00.360 Or God shows up and breaks us only to rebuild us in the way that he wanted. 00:50:00.360 --> 00:50:16.120 At the end of this, I do believe, and I think I've said this before, I will stand before God 00:50:16.120 --> 00:50:21.360 one day and, and ask this question. 00:50:23.020 --> 00:50:23.680 All right. 00:50:24.520 --> 00:50:25.500 Where'd I get it wrong? 00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:29.360 You ever watch the, the, the TV show, Good Place? 00:50:29.620 --> 00:50:31.860 Like it's, it's a little religious satire. 00:50:32.220 --> 00:50:37.200 It's a Ted Danson is, he actually starts off saying, isn't, I don't want, I'm not going 00:50:37.200 --> 00:50:37.620 to be a spoiler. 00:50:37.720 --> 00:50:39.800 I almost spoiled the show for you right there on that. 00:50:40.180 --> 00:50:41.100 The Good Place. 00:50:41.200 --> 00:50:42.580 It's, it's, it's funny. 00:50:43.340 --> 00:50:49.940 Um, it's, uh, a little, it's very satire, religious, uh, it's very easy to get offended 00:50:49.940 --> 00:50:51.320 if, if you watch it. 00:50:51.620 --> 00:50:53.580 Um, so maybe watch it, maybe not. 00:50:53.620 --> 00:50:56.540 If you, if you can make it past the first couple episodes, you'll be fine. 00:50:57.680 --> 00:51:00.080 And then at the end of the first season, your head's going to explode. 00:51:00.920 --> 00:51:04.140 But there's, there's the one guy, uh, there, there's the photo. 00:51:04.280 --> 00:51:05.120 I forget the guy's name. 00:51:05.180 --> 00:51:07.060 Somebody watching this may actually know the guy's name. 00:51:07.380 --> 00:51:15.400 There's this one guy who, uh, they have his photo in, in the office, like a big, uh, painting 00:51:15.400 --> 00:51:24.100 mural of this guy, because this one guy in, in the history of all time, um, the one guy 00:51:24.100 --> 00:51:31.160 was drunk and, and spouted off in a drunken stupor what he thought God was. 00:51:31.160 --> 00:51:35.640 And that one guy over the entire history of time, that one guy got it right. 00:51:36.080 --> 00:51:41.140 And so they, they like put a painting up, up in the, in the, the spiritual office, because 00:51:41.140 --> 00:51:43.140 this is the one guy that actually got it. 00:51:43.420 --> 00:51:49.800 He was drunk at the time, but it's once again, satire being what it is, but I'll stand before 00:51:49.800 --> 00:51:50.100 God. 00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:52.080 Oh God, where'd I get it wrong? 00:51:52.580 --> 00:51:52.980 I will. 00:51:54.240 --> 00:52:01.160 We're, we are aggressively doing things differently here with the church digital. 00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:07.280 Um, and, and, and, and my hope is, is that while we're doing it, we are, we're, we're, we're 00:52:07.280 --> 00:52:08.700 cross-referencing scripture. 00:52:09.120 --> 00:52:10.420 We're looking at Bible. 00:52:10.840 --> 00:52:20.860 We're looking at how things are, um, how we're doing things and making sure it aligns with 00:52:20.860 --> 00:52:21.420 that scripture. 00:52:21.940 --> 00:52:29.000 I'll tell you, we're not, we're not cross-referencing it against physical church buildings, um, because 00:52:29.000 --> 00:52:33.200 it doesn't, if COVID taught us anything, it taught us that it's physical church building 00:52:33.200 --> 00:52:34.400 mindset doesn't work digitally. 00:52:35.260 --> 00:52:37.720 Um, that doesn't make it bad physical. 00:52:37.940 --> 00:52:39.360 I don't think that makes digital bad. 00:52:40.140 --> 00:52:49.920 Now, what I would say is that I don't think this came up somewhere. 00:52:51.220 --> 00:52:53.700 I think I was talking with Jesse Velez about this. 00:52:55.380 --> 00:52:58.820 The model, digital is a model, just like physical is a model. 00:52:59.320 --> 00:53:04.880 And like I'm saying, there are good physical churches, um, there can be bad digital churches. 00:53:06.320 --> 00:53:16.240 There can be people that use this tool effectively, and there can be people who use the tool ineffectively. 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:23.660 Uh, whether the physical church model works or doesn't, um, there, there is, there are people 00:53:23.660 --> 00:53:30.580 that, and God is glorified through that model in some context, physically, and in some context, 00:53:30.700 --> 00:53:31.740 physically, it struggles. 00:53:32.240 --> 00:53:40.440 And, and, and I believe that God can use a, a digital content model if God so chooses. 00:53:41.220 --> 00:53:50.360 Um, but when I look at other parts of scripture, I see more consistency around relationships. 00:53:51.020 --> 00:53:57.780 And when I look at today's culture and some of the challenges they have, I see relationships. 00:53:58.880 --> 00:54:03.040 And so while I can't, this is like, um, once again, I'm trying not to posture to be like 00:54:03.040 --> 00:54:03.640 a jerk here. 00:54:04.040 --> 00:54:11.200 While I can't say that I speak for the entire digital model, what I can say is that we encourage 00:54:11.200 --> 00:54:16.080 people to use digital in, in a way that aligns to scripture. 00:54:17.420 --> 00:54:20.760 Now look, digital is the place of pornography. 00:54:21.420 --> 00:54:23.880 The metaverse is, is the place of great darkness. 00:54:24.660 --> 00:54:30.000 And, and, and so to say that we are alone and that, that we can control and that all things 00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:37.040 that are digital and all things that are metaverse are good, uh, and of God, uh, that I, I, I cannot 00:54:37.040 --> 00:54:37.800 say that. 00:54:38.940 --> 00:54:44.620 But that does not mean that what we are, are doing is not of God. 00:54:46.440 --> 00:54:54.540 And I believe God is using us in a way to bring about a change and the way to bring out a, a new 00:54:54.540 --> 00:55:00.480 model, a healthy, uh, model of church in digital virtual space. 00:55:00.580 --> 00:55:02.000 Now, can that be abused? 00:55:02.160 --> 00:55:02.400 Yes. 00:55:02.500 --> 00:55:04.720 Can that be misaligned? 00:55:04.860 --> 00:55:05.060 Yes. 00:55:05.120 --> 00:55:06.640 Does that need to be deconstructed? 00:55:07.540 --> 00:55:08.660 Every step of the way. 00:55:08.860 --> 00:55:09.580 Let me say it this way. 00:55:09.680 --> 00:55:10.800 Every step of the way. 00:55:11.560 --> 00:55:11.920 Yeah. 00:55:12.160 --> 00:55:13.720 Like bring on the questions. 00:55:14.440 --> 00:55:16.080 And, and I've, I've said this for years. 00:55:16.340 --> 00:55:24.020 The, the day that we find a different model that is more effective in connecting people, 00:55:24.020 --> 00:55:32.240 like the day that digital does not become effective for, for reaching and discipling people, I out. 00:55:33.160 --> 00:55:36.580 Like, let's, let's be, let's do what we can for the kingdom. 00:55:37.260 --> 00:55:47.780 If we're stuck on models, if we're stuck on models, I mean, I don't overthink what I'm about 00:55:47.780 --> 00:55:48.200 to say. 00:55:48.320 --> 00:55:53.060 I honestly, like everything that I've said here today, I'm comfortable with. 00:55:53.060 --> 00:55:57.760 I'm about to say something out loud that in my mind, I'm like, I don't know that you 00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:58.700 want to say this. 00:56:03.500 --> 00:56:12.180 If I were to oversimplify, I would say something like, if we're stuck on the model, we're no 00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:14.100 different than the Pharisees and the Sadducees. 00:56:14.100 --> 00:56:22.600 Yes, there's a lot more than model in that, but they were stuck on pride and ego. 00:56:23.060 --> 00:56:29.040 And not recognizing what, what God was doing in that moment, not recognizing that they had 00:56:29.040 --> 00:56:30.120 Christ before them. 00:56:30.620 --> 00:56:36.760 And I would suggest that, that even though I am a digital guy that's been pushing digital 00:56:36.760 --> 00:56:45.120 for 25 plus years, God had called me to be a digital pastor 33 years ago. 00:56:45.980 --> 00:56:50.680 Honest to God, I can say that my parents will back me up. 00:56:53.920 --> 00:57:02.200 I will count it all as loss and we'll move on when Christ opens the door for something else. 00:57:05.440 --> 00:57:15.560 If we're going to make a difference in people's lives, we have to be open to shining that light 00:57:15.560 --> 00:57:16.180 on ourselves. 00:57:17.580 --> 00:57:25.240 We have to be transparent in all things, even when it means questioning ourselves, deconstructing 00:57:25.240 --> 00:57:25.940 ourselves. 00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:33.280 Here, he says this, Jesus always, Scott, Jesus always called us back to the standard. 00:57:33.420 --> 00:57:34.400 That is not deconstruction. 00:57:34.460 --> 00:57:36.240 That is the opposite of deconstruction. 00:57:36.340 --> 00:57:36.660 No. 00:57:37.600 --> 00:57:40.340 And that's, that's where we're, that's where we're off here, Scott. 00:57:41.340 --> 00:57:43.220 Deconstruction brings us back to the standard. 00:57:44.500 --> 00:57:52.400 Deconstruction sheds away that right there is, this is, this is where, Scott, I'm, I'm 00:57:52.400 --> 00:57:53.580 trying like you and me, bro. 00:57:53.680 --> 00:57:54.960 We are on the same page. 00:57:55.320 --> 00:58:07.260 I want to get us there because deconstruction tears it apart so that the standard is what you 00:58:07.260 --> 00:58:07.940 have. 00:58:08.920 --> 00:58:10.380 That is what I'm saying. 00:58:11.100 --> 00:58:17.860 Is that deconstruction deconstructs it down to you get to the standard. 00:58:18.840 --> 00:58:26.480 I had a, oh my gosh, what was the, I had a, I had a deconstructed spicy tuna roll, um, 00:58:26.600 --> 00:58:32.520 at, at, um, payway. 00:58:34.120 --> 00:58:40.500 It was, it was like a big bowl and it had the rice, it had the spicy tuna, it had the celery, 00:58:40.500 --> 00:58:42.400 it had the, but it wasn't in a roll form. 00:58:42.400 --> 00:58:46.680 It was deconstructed and you had the individual elements around. 00:58:47.180 --> 00:58:53.780 I ate a spicy tuna roll in a bowl that was not in as made as like a sushi. 00:58:54.020 --> 00:58:58.440 It was made, but it was made, but it was made, but it was the elements of a, a spicy tuna. 00:58:59.120 --> 00:59:01.120 You are, that, that's just it. 00:59:01.660 --> 00:59:11.760 To your point though, Scott, um, I don't fully understand the term and people inside the church and maybe outside the church. 00:59:12.720 --> 00:59:13.160 Yeah. 00:59:14.260 --> 00:59:29.000 And to your point, Scott, I'm either debating whether or not to reclaim the word and so alienate those around me or come up with a new term and try to get that work through. 00:59:31.000 --> 00:59:34.160 And that, my friends, is what we call a Tuesday at the church digital. 00:59:34.340 --> 00:59:40.800 Cause I was, I was talking with, uh, you know, it's, it's so easy to forget. 00:59:42.800 --> 00:59:45.040 We're a, essentially a volunteer organization. 00:59:46.680 --> 00:59:59.020 Like, I mean, there's 50 some people globally who, who are volunteering and serving, you know, the leadership that we've got is, you know, some are paid, some are not. 00:59:59.380 --> 01:00:03.820 Uh, by paid, I mean like fractional leadership, they're paid pennies on the, on the hour. 01:00:04.480 --> 01:00:14.300 Um, the, um, I, I, myself, like I just started taking, uh, um, a stipend a couple months ago. 01:00:14.760 --> 01:00:27.800 Um, but I was meeting with our, the word revolution team and I was going over, over the past couple of weeks, I've been going over everything that happens, you know, that's going to happen in the next six months. 01:00:29.180 --> 01:00:29.860 It's a lot. 01:00:31.600 --> 01:00:37.160 And, and it was, you know, I just, I told him, I was like, listen, I, and there's, it's, it's a lot of change for you all. 01:00:37.760 --> 01:00:41.300 And, and they're feeling it on, on the, at the comms level, comms and connection level. 01:00:41.300 --> 01:00:51.260 Like there's going to be a lot of shifts, but what's coming out of that is, uh, is going to be a, a tighter organization. 01:00:53.080 --> 01:00:58.880 We do a lot, uh, with, you know, a digital missionary conference for, for, 01:00:58.980 --> 01:01:01.000 for individual summits over the span of a month. 01:01:01.100 --> 01:01:04.880 I had somebody, you know, who's, who's in the industry, someone I respect. 01:01:04.980 --> 01:01:06.760 She says to me, she says, are you crazy? 01:01:08.300 --> 01:01:10.420 Like, do you think your team can handle that? 01:01:12.340 --> 01:01:12.700 No. 01:01:14.620 --> 01:01:20.360 Um, but you know what we're going to do is we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to nail it as best we can. 01:01:20.900 --> 01:01:22.580 Uh, it's going to be good enough to move on. 01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:31.860 And I, I do know this is that, um, we're going to depend on God and, and we're praying that God does something incredible through it. 01:01:33.540 --> 01:01:39.300 Proverbs three, trusting God, even when it doesn't make sense and acknowledge him while you're doing it. 01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:41.140 And he's going to direct your path. 01:01:41.580 --> 01:01:52.240 And, um, we, with the church digital, we're doing this and words like, you know, deconstruction, whether that's the right word, whether that's the wrong word, we need to come up with a new word. 01:01:52.560 --> 01:01:53.820 Uh, we'll figure it out. 01:01:54.180 --> 01:02:04.480 And that is, that is one of many, many things that you're going to see in, in the coming days through the church digital. 01:02:04.480 --> 01:02:08.020 I am, uh, gosh, I am very excited. 01:02:08.480 --> 01:02:13.980 Yeah, I do want to, we're talking a lot about physical church today and I do want to, want to kind of pause here for a second. 01:02:14.840 --> 01:02:22.400 Um, you know, I've said, I've said in leadership circles, the, my senior leadership knows, the board knows. 01:02:22.560 --> 01:02:25.560 Key volunteers know, I've, you know, I've said it here on the stream. 01:02:25.640 --> 01:02:28.540 Now I don't, I, I'm not hiding this. 01:02:28.540 --> 01:02:35.400 Like I am, um, most likely taking a job at a, at a physical church, um, in, in the coming weeks. 01:02:35.880 --> 01:02:44.520 Um, and I don't, I don't view that as any sort of a move away from the church digital. 01:02:44.940 --> 01:02:46.140 Uh, it was interesting. 01:02:46.140 --> 01:02:51.740 I've actually, uh, had, had a conversation with a friend, a donor here at the church digital. 01:02:52.280 --> 01:03:00.680 Uh, and, and there was, I could tell there was some skepticism, you know, well, are you, are you still going to be, you know, doing the church digital? 01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.500 Are you giving it up? 01:03:01.540 --> 01:03:03.500 It's like, oh no, no, no, no, no, no. 01:03:03.500 --> 01:03:07.320 No, church digital isn't going away, uh, by far from it. 01:03:07.780 --> 01:03:10.740 Like this is, this is the season to lean in strong. 01:03:10.860 --> 01:03:14.980 This is, uh, this is the season to, to push hard. 01:03:15.500 --> 01:03:20.000 Uh, God is opening some incredible doors in, in a ministry context. 01:03:20.800 --> 01:03:35.900 Um, what I think you're seeing is that this is not going to be, um, a Jeff Reed centered, a Jeff Reed focused, a Jeff Reed driven, uh, organization. 01:03:36.700 --> 01:03:39.660 And, and that we're going to start to move away from that. 01:03:39.740 --> 01:03:42.060 Now, I may be a visionary role. 01:03:42.260 --> 01:03:46.320 I may be a mouthpiece to be able to do streams and, and stuff like this. 01:03:46.320 --> 01:03:57.040 But, um, we want to, um, we're recognizing there's some incredible, absolutely incredible people that are now connected with us at a global level. 01:03:58.040 --> 01:04:06.440 And for us to really, the, the heart of what we're doing at this time and time again is decentralization. 01:04:06.900 --> 01:04:24.360 We want to create a decentralized global movement that, that's freeing Simon, that's freeing Yatope, that's free, freeing Tariq, that's, that's freeing up Layton, that's freeing all of these people, Micah, to do what God is, is calling each of them to do. 01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:27.700 Freeing Stacey to do what God is calling them to do. 01:04:28.360 --> 01:04:50.420 And as, as a result of that, what we, what we really wanted to do was create a central framework, connect community, equip, mobilize, get those pieces in place, and then start to empower others to utilize that framework. 01:04:51.640 --> 01:05:05.240 And, and, and in the process of that, you're going to see a lot more people, a lot more faces of the church digital, instead of just this one bald guy with a beard, wearing an orange Mickey Mouse shirt. 01:05:05.700 --> 01:05:08.060 I don't know who dressed me this morning, that was a little awkward. 01:05:08.980 --> 01:05:12.680 The fact is, is that it's, it's going to look different. 01:05:14.400 --> 01:05:19.440 And in, in the midst of a decentral, you've, if you've ever been a part of a decentralized movement, you know, it's messy. 01:05:20.580 --> 01:05:26.640 Um, you, it's, decentralization is not, centralization is clean. 01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:28.160 Decentralization is messy. 01:05:28.880 --> 01:05:35.760 Uh, there, it's very, it's impossible to be a power hungry control freak in a decentralized movement. 01:05:35.860 --> 01:05:49.620 And so it's, I'm even more adamant that we move in this direction as a check and balance for myself so that I can empower others, uh, instead of seeking it for myself. 01:05:52.120 --> 01:05:59.800 But the, the, the vision, the dream, the drive of the church digital is not slowing down. 01:06:00.940 --> 01:06:02.380 It's decentralizing. 01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:04.860 It's getting in the hands of others. 01:06:08.680 --> 01:06:15.640 Biblically, the church exploded, not because this is going to be bad. 01:06:18.000 --> 01:06:19.460 Don't be mad at me. 01:06:21.140 --> 01:06:27.840 Biblically, the church did not explode because of Christ. 01:06:31.500 --> 01:06:36.280 It exploded because Christ invested in 12 men who carried it on. 01:06:38.680 --> 01:06:48.540 Um, if it was just Christ, he would be a madman and a lunatic, but Christ invested into others who carried it on. 01:06:48.640 --> 01:06:58.580 He would be perceived, would be perceived as a madman and a lunatic, but that others carried the name of Christ up into their own death. 01:06:59.000 --> 01:07:10.100 You know, Peter crucified upside down, um, you know, and, and everything encompassed in that, that the sacrament, not that I'm, we're going to kill Andy. 01:07:10.220 --> 01:07:12.220 Oh my gosh, that'd be awkward. 01:07:12.780 --> 01:07:19.480 Um, but the, the validity of this carries on, um, because of that generation. 01:07:20.140 --> 01:07:29.780 And I can remember, I can remember, you know, the first group of, of, um, church planners I worked with when I was with that, that stadia. 01:07:30.600 --> 01:07:33.460 I literally, I was like, you're lunatic one, you're lunatic two. 01:07:33.560 --> 01:07:39.280 There's a Ted talk on this, uh, watch, um, concert footage, um, lunatics. 01:07:39.520 --> 01:07:40.640 Uh, you can Google it. 01:07:40.760 --> 01:07:42.140 Um, crazy people. 01:07:42.360 --> 01:07:46.220 It's a really good Ted talk, but it's interesting. 01:07:46.220 --> 01:07:49.180 The first person that followed and I'll get into it. 01:07:49.220 --> 01:07:49.760 You can Google it. 01:07:49.780 --> 01:07:59.920 We'll talk about it later, but, uh, it was talking about the, the influence of, of getting the idea to spread, uh, dancing at a, at a, uh, outdoor concert. 01:08:01.240 --> 01:08:01.720 Crazy. 01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:07.380 The fact is, is that the church digital is not, man, I'm really bad at tangents today. 01:08:07.680 --> 01:08:09.500 The church digital is not slowing down. 01:08:09.500 --> 01:08:15.660 We're ramping up, um, and we're decentralizing into some different areas to allow. 01:08:17.000 --> 01:08:20.660 People's passions and people's callings to come out at a stronger level. 01:08:22.440 --> 01:08:35.500 Pray for me that God has moved through the transition and that, um, he'll be glorified through physical churches and digital churches, uh, globally. 01:08:38.680 --> 01:08:39.640 I'm encouraged. 01:08:39.880 --> 01:08:40.740 I hope you are too. 01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:42.400 Scott, love you. 01:08:42.620 --> 01:08:44.860 I mean, I, I, I feel like I've said your name a lot today. 01:08:44.940 --> 01:08:46.240 I'm really don't mean to pick on you. 01:08:46.540 --> 01:08:58.560 Uh, it totally does make sense, uh, about the, the, um, you know, agreeing the deconstruction, that minor context, finding a different word or reclaiming the word. 01:08:58.620 --> 01:08:59.120 I hear you. 01:08:59.400 --> 01:09:00.200 We'll have to figure that out. 01:09:00.840 --> 01:09:01.360 All right. 01:09:01.780 --> 01:09:04.140 Hey, next week. 01:09:04.140 --> 01:09:06.060 I have no idea what's going on. 01:09:06.060 --> 01:09:08.200 The schedule has gotten a little screwed up in recent weeks. 01:09:08.800 --> 01:09:10.240 We'll re-engage. 01:09:10.380 --> 01:09:12.580 Scott says it back to, I love you, brother. 01:09:12.640 --> 01:09:12.980 We're good. 01:09:13.040 --> 01:09:13.280 I know. 01:09:13.300 --> 01:09:13.500 I know. 01:09:13.560 --> 01:09:13.880 We're good. 01:09:14.040 --> 01:09:14.820 Scott, Scott's great. 01:09:15.320 --> 01:09:27.080 But, um, looking forward to re-engaging next week as we're getting back into, uh, the season and equipping partners, empowering tools. 01:09:27.120 --> 01:09:28.460 So, so check that out. 01:09:28.720 --> 01:09:30.560 WhatsApp and Discord's got the schedule. 01:09:30.660 --> 01:09:32.940 You can find that the church.digital slash calendar. 01:09:33.160 --> 01:09:35.920 You can find the schedule there as well. 01:09:36.460 --> 01:09:40.000 Um, and swing over to missionary.digital. 01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:43.900 We're, we're going to be launching more stuff on that in the next week or so. 01:09:43.900 --> 01:09:57.820 And so looking forward to updating you all on the craziness, the craziness that's going to be the four digital missionary summits we are going to be doing this fall. 01:09:57.920 --> 01:09:58.300 Check it out. 01:09:58.360 --> 01:09:59.280 Missionary.digital. 01:09:59.680 --> 01:10:02.180 But for Barbara, feel better. 01:10:02.740 --> 01:10:04.360 Uh, this is Jeff with The Church Digital. 01:10:04.500 --> 01:10:07.440 Thanks for hanging out with us today on, on the stream. 01:10:07.440 --> 01:10:13.440 Uh, send a email to, um, Andy, A-N-D-Y at thechurch.com. 01:10:13.900 --> 01:10:15.240 Thanks everybody. 01:10:15.460 --> 01:10:15.980 Y'all have a good one.