WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.483 [Jeff Reed] All right, hey everybody, welcome to episode 382, 382 of the Church Digital Podcast. 00:00:06.543 --> 00:00:09.123 [Jeff Reed] I got Chill Hop playing in the background. 00:00:09.364 --> 00:00:10.343 [Jeff Reed] I like my lo-fi. 00:00:10.424 --> 00:00:13.645 [Jeff Reed] I don't know that I like my lo-fi with saxophone. 00:00:13.825 --> 00:00:16.486 [Jeff Reed] This is not the environment I necessarily was going into. 00:00:17.426 --> 00:00:18.488 [Jeff Reed] Walking into the stream. 00:00:19.307 --> 00:00:25.091 [Jeff Reed] So I'm just going to go ahead and fade out the music because that took the turn that I was not expecting. 00:00:25.192 --> 00:00:26.613 [Jeff Reed] So apologize for that. 00:00:26.633 --> 00:00:29.615 [Jeff Reed] But so thankful to be on the stream here with you guys and talking. 00:00:30.095 --> 00:00:31.855 [Jeff Reed] I had a show scheduled for today. 00:00:31.936 --> 00:00:32.757 [Jeff Reed] And to be honest. 00:00:33.257 --> 00:00:35.498 [Jeff Reed] what I had planned, I dropped the ball on. 00:00:35.538 --> 00:00:54.574 [Jeff Reed] And so looking forward to bringing the guest on next week and definitely excited about what's in store for that as we're getting back to the listening tour and really just starting to explore what God is doing digitally through digital missionaries on a global, literally a global scale. 00:00:55.134 --> 00:01:06.218 [Jeff Reed] I was in a meeting this morning, once again, talking with some of our friends in India and in Europe and Africa and planning on how to draw attention to that with the Church Digital. 00:01:06.879 --> 00:01:09.759 [Jeff Reed] It's so important, I think, for us to recognize. 00:01:09.779 --> 00:01:14.362 [Jeff Reed] I heard a story even last week about a Muslim. 00:01:14.382 --> 00:01:20.863 [Jeff Reed] We're going to share the story with the Church Digital soon, but it was a Muslim convert from Yemen. 00:01:21.988 --> 00:01:27.752 [Jeff Reed] And when I was watching this story, I was like, I can't actually think of the last time I said the word Yemen. 00:01:28.312 --> 00:01:30.834 [Jeff Reed] Like, as a country, it's just not in my vocabulary. 00:01:30.853 --> 00:01:31.834 [Jeff Reed] It's not in my mindset. 00:01:32.315 --> 00:01:40.800 [Jeff Reed] But even though it's scattered, it's dispersed, it's away, it's disconnected, God's doing things digitally in that space. 00:01:40.921 --> 00:01:49.647 [Jeff Reed] And so important, I think, for us to celebrate that and start to show what God is doing digitally, not only here in the U.S., but around the world. 00:01:50.249 --> 00:01:51.591 [Jeff Reed] And it's interesting. 00:01:52.072 --> 00:01:53.195 [Jeff Reed] You know, I'm kind of... 00:01:53.317 --> 00:01:56.022 [Jeff Reed] I was actually talking on Discord a minute ago. 00:01:56.545 --> 00:01:58.870 [Jeff Reed] By the way, if you ever DM me on Discord... 00:01:59.829 --> 00:02:00.449 [Jeff Reed] I apologize. 00:02:00.468 --> 00:02:01.189 [Jeff Reed] Same thing on WhatsApp. 00:02:01.668 --> 00:02:02.389 [Jeff Reed] I'm horrible. 00:02:02.750 --> 00:02:06.451 [Jeff Reed] I am horrible with DMing back on people. 00:02:06.511 --> 00:02:07.250 [Jeff Reed] I need to get better. 00:02:07.271 --> 00:02:08.110 [Jeff Reed] It's a confession. 00:02:08.151 --> 00:02:10.091 [Jeff Reed] It's an issue of mine. 00:02:10.451 --> 00:02:12.271 [Jeff Reed] I need to pay more attention to those inboxes. 00:02:13.651 --> 00:02:18.173 [Jeff Reed] In the community, I'm great, but just the inboxes, they just pile up. 00:02:18.653 --> 00:02:22.053 [Jeff Reed] Not an excuse, but an excuse. 00:02:22.074 --> 00:02:28.916 [Jeff Reed] There was a person, I believe from overseas, Europe, who had DMed me 00:02:30.476 --> 00:02:31.396 [Jeff Reed] four or five months ago. 00:02:32.156 --> 00:02:40.418 [Jeff Reed] And they were very upset about God, ministry, life, relationships. 00:02:40.858 --> 00:02:42.759 [Jeff Reed] We've all gotten to that point, right? 00:02:43.118 --> 00:02:45.899 [Jeff Reed] Where we just, we feel like we need to explode. 00:02:46.279 --> 00:02:50.601 [Jeff Reed] We need somebody that's gonna listen and just vent and do it. 00:02:51.161 --> 00:02:54.762 [Jeff Reed] And this person, they went ahead and they had that moment. 00:02:55.322 --> 00:03:00.026 [Jeff Reed] It was funny in the moment, I saw them having the moment in the community. 00:03:00.065 --> 00:03:03.207 [Jeff Reed] I told them to DM me and I didn't see every DM to me. 00:03:03.288 --> 00:03:13.737 [Jeff Reed] Actually, they got connected to Leighton and had the conversation I know and things ended well, but that was the situation four or five months ago. 00:03:13.757 --> 00:03:19.201 [Jeff Reed] And I'm reading this now recollecting, oh crap, this really did happen four or five months ago and I dropped the ball. 00:03:19.661 --> 00:03:21.322 [Jeff Reed] Thank you Leighton for covering by the way. 00:03:21.423 --> 00:03:22.884 [Jeff Reed] That's why you always wanna be in a team. 00:03:23.483 --> 00:03:24.725 [Jeff Reed] Never go alone digitally. 00:03:24.944 --> 00:03:26.526 [Jeff Reed] Never go alone digitally. 00:03:27.947 --> 00:03:31.129 [Jeff Reed] But I told this person, I was like, I'm going to be honest. 00:03:31.209 --> 00:03:33.011 [Jeff Reed] And you're going to hear it today. 00:03:33.952 --> 00:03:36.334 [Jeff Reed] I'm in a little bit of a questioning period myself. 00:03:37.055 --> 00:03:39.836 [Jeff Reed] And it's not I'm questioning the existence of God. 00:03:39.916 --> 00:03:40.517 [Jeff Reed] God exists. 00:03:40.596 --> 00:03:41.298 [Jeff Reed] God is real. 00:03:41.358 --> 00:03:42.399 [Jeff Reed] I have gone down that road. 00:03:42.879 --> 00:03:43.459 [Jeff Reed] Is God real? 00:03:44.139 --> 00:03:45.820 [Jeff Reed] Check me out maybe 2023. 00:03:46.221 --> 00:03:48.702 [Jeff Reed] We can have some of those conversations. 00:03:49.202 --> 00:03:53.024 [Jeff Reed] You know, I've had the conversations of, is God worthy of listening to? 00:03:53.084 --> 00:03:55.565 [Jeff Reed] Is God worthy of our work, our worship, and our praise? 00:03:56.125 --> 00:03:57.146 [Jeff Reed] I've gone down that. 00:03:58.286 --> 00:04:06.130 [Jeff Reed] And what I'm wrestling with today, and I'm happy, I see God, you know, like that's not my problem. 00:04:07.094 --> 00:04:15.197 [Jeff Reed] The thing that I've been struggling with, and if you've been keeping up with the Scattered Bible Studies, you've seen this, you've heard this, you've heard me talk about it. 00:04:15.558 --> 00:04:17.098 [Jeff Reed] By the way, Scattered's incredible. 00:04:17.118 --> 00:04:20.880 [Jeff Reed] You should totally check that out, thechurch.digital.com, but this is not about Scattered. 00:04:21.581 --> 00:04:26.283 [Jeff Reed] I'll be honest, I'm struggling with the church. 00:04:27.435 --> 00:04:38.605 [Jeff Reed] coming from an organization that's called The Church Digital, it's kind of bad when the guy who founded it's like, hey, two of the three words I'm struggling with right now, but I am, I'm struggling with the church. 00:04:39.286 --> 00:04:46.733 [Jeff Reed] And I've been trying to figure out, honestly, for years, how to put words behind the issues that I have. 00:04:48.528 --> 00:04:54.170 [Jeff Reed] Here in America, it's funny, there's many reasons why I don't go to conferences anymore. 00:04:54.269 --> 00:05:02.874 [Jeff Reed] I used to be, a lot of you have known me and met me from the work with Leadership Network and Exponential and New Thing Network and Stadia. 00:05:02.973 --> 00:05:05.033 [Jeff Reed] I was constantly on the go. 00:05:05.274 --> 00:05:09.235 [Jeff Reed] There's days in my life where I was on the road two or three days out of seven. 00:05:10.355 --> 00:05:17.079 [Jeff Reed] Being a digital guy, it's ironic that I was on the road that much, but I was constantly traveling and connecting. 00:05:17.459 --> 00:05:20.440 [Jeff Reed] with people globally, and there's value in that. 00:05:21.161 --> 00:05:34.628 [Jeff Reed] But it's interesting for me, the more that I got into those one-on-one conversations, the more that it really just turned, not where I was getting encouragement, 00:05:35.873 --> 00:05:52.440 [Jeff Reed] but where I was battling, I was fighting, I was trying to show, I was bucking the system, I was disrupting what was there, and never once was it good job, never once was it comforting. 00:05:52.501 --> 00:05:57.483 [Jeff Reed] It was like everywhere I went, it was, I'm overstating here, but it was a fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. 00:05:58.603 --> 00:06:02.945 [Jeff Reed] And I never knew peace when I would travel. 00:06:02.986 --> 00:06:03.786 [Jeff Reed] I never knew comfort. 00:06:03.886 --> 00:06:07.527 [Jeff Reed] Anywhere I go, I was expecting, like we would talk about it. 00:06:07.647 --> 00:06:08.568 [Jeff Reed] You may have heard me say this. 00:06:09.068 --> 00:06:11.248 [Jeff Reed] Anytime I'd have a conversation, there were 30%. 00:06:11.309 --> 00:06:13.469 [Jeff Reed] When I walk into a room, these stats are true. 00:06:13.949 --> 00:06:18.252 [Jeff Reed] When I walk into a room and start talking, 30% of the room is gonna love everything I'm gonna say. 00:06:19.151 --> 00:06:25.580 [Jeff Reed] 30% of the room is going to think I'm a nut job and is going to hate everything, is going to question the standards. 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:26.943 [Jeff Reed] And so really there's 40%. 00:06:27.563 --> 00:06:32.229 [Jeff Reed] The 40% is what I'm in the room for is to try to sway them one way or another. 00:06:32.369 --> 00:06:35.414 [Jeff Reed] And it was so frustrating in ministry. 00:06:36.561 --> 00:06:42.166 [Jeff Reed] Well, then we were invited to go to Korea to meet with this missions organization, Lausanne. 00:06:42.786 --> 00:06:44.608 [Jeff Reed] And you know the story. 00:06:44.647 --> 00:06:45.287 [Jeff Reed] I said, no. 00:06:45.768 --> 00:06:47.989 [Jeff Reed] They came back and said, no, really, you are coming. 00:06:48.011 --> 00:06:48.531 [Jeff Reed] What do you need? 00:06:48.550 --> 00:06:49.551 [Jeff Reed] Let's figure it out and get here. 00:06:50.212 --> 00:06:51.252 [Jeff Reed] Because we couldn't afford it. 00:06:51.552 --> 00:06:52.513 [Jeff Reed] And so we figured it out. 00:06:52.534 --> 00:06:53.153 [Jeff Reed] We got there. 00:06:53.834 --> 00:06:59.439 [Jeff Reed] And it was maybe the best experience I've ever had at a conference. 00:07:00.239 --> 00:07:02.381 [Jeff Reed] Because people were supportive. 00:07:02.861 --> 00:07:03.561 [Jeff Reed] They were encouraging. 00:07:03.582 --> 00:07:04.382 [Jeff Reed] The global people. 00:07:05.443 --> 00:07:10.705 [Jeff Reed] Like even the US for the most part, US global people were supportive. 00:07:10.786 --> 00:07:24.892 [Jeff Reed] It seems like when I have a conversation or when I'm at the US conferences, to be honest, church conferences, you know the conferences I go to, I'm not gonna drop names, but like 30, 40% of the conversations I would have would be negative. 00:07:24.953 --> 00:07:26.814 [Jeff Reed] Remember three out of 10 think I'm a nut job. 00:07:27.214 --> 00:07:31.877 [Jeff Reed] So 30% of the people I'm talking to are like, you're crazy, it doesn't work that way. 00:07:32.987 --> 00:07:38.531 [Jeff Reed] In Lausanne, I had maybe 500 conversations. 00:07:38.651 --> 00:07:41.914 [Jeff Reed] And honest to God, of those 500 conversations, maybe one or two. 00:07:42.753 --> 00:07:46.196 [Jeff Reed] One that was aggressive, and another guy was like, look, I appreciate what you're doing. 00:07:46.457 --> 00:07:47.397 [Jeff Reed] I'm thankful you're doing it. 00:07:47.517 --> 00:07:48.659 [Jeff Reed] It's just not for me. 00:07:48.858 --> 00:07:49.979 [Jeff Reed] I'm not that guy. 00:07:51.523 --> 00:07:57.406 [Jeff Reed] And so it was a very strong affirmation for me that we were on the right trail. 00:07:58.007 --> 00:08:02.150 [Jeff Reed] And for a second, I thought that it was because it was a global audience and global is more open. 00:08:02.729 --> 00:08:07.031 [Jeff Reed] And I do believe global is more open to digital because in many ways it's post-Christian. 00:08:07.212 --> 00:08:08.652 [Jeff Reed] Europe, more people go to a pub. 00:08:09.773 --> 00:08:12.074 [Jeff Reed] than a cathedral or a temple on Christmas Eve. 00:08:12.454 --> 00:08:16.718 [Jeff Reed] And so in many ways, what they're experiencing in Europe, up where Simon is, is post-Christian. 00:08:16.757 --> 00:08:25.704 [Jeff Reed] Same thing with a lot of our friends, obviously, India, South Asia right now is in the midst of persecution, where even sharing Jesus is illegal. 00:08:26.364 --> 00:08:28.767 [Jeff Reed] There's lots of challenges in Africa, up and down. 00:08:29.007 --> 00:08:36.612 [Jeff Reed] And so, you know, in many ways, the mission field is more ripe and more open for more missional thinking. 00:08:37.868 --> 00:08:40.449 [Jeff Reed] in these areas than they are here in America. 00:08:41.010 --> 00:08:43.650 [Jeff Reed] America, you know, we like our buildings. 00:08:44.310 --> 00:08:45.210 [Jeff Reed] We like our structure. 00:08:45.231 --> 00:08:46.271 [Jeff Reed] We like our tradition. 00:08:47.090 --> 00:08:58.433 [Jeff Reed] And it's been a struggle for me as a guy who evidently has been called to be one of the disruptors in that church space to constantly be battling against that. 00:08:58.772 --> 00:09:00.593 [Jeff Reed] And, well, Jeff, how hard can it be? 00:09:00.914 --> 00:09:02.233 [Jeff Reed] I've been doing this for 25 years, 26 years. 00:09:02.253 --> 00:09:03.214 [Jeff Reed] It's hard. 00:09:05.895 --> 00:09:08.901 [Jeff Reed] I mean, the bald and the gray, my kids are great. 00:09:08.940 --> 00:09:10.063 [Jeff Reed] This is not because of my family. 00:09:10.343 --> 00:09:11.204 [Jeff Reed] Let me just say it that way. 00:09:11.805 --> 00:09:14.571 [Jeff Reed] And so, but it's been hard for me. 00:09:15.608 --> 00:09:24.659 [Jeff Reed] to put words on the struggle, to help define and understand better what it is that I'm fighting against. 00:09:24.758 --> 00:09:29.744 [Jeff Reed] And so I wanna take some time right here and unpack this a little bit for you. 00:09:30.324 --> 00:09:31.406 [Jeff Reed] I'm asking your patience. 00:09:31.786 --> 00:09:33.608 [Jeff Reed] This is the first time I've said a lot of this stuff. 00:09:33.949 --> 00:09:35.830 [Jeff Reed] And so, you know, I've talked about 00:09:36.892 --> 00:09:40.054 [Jeff Reed] I'm going to be unfiltered on these streams. 00:09:40.093 --> 00:09:48.900 [Jeff Reed] This is a perfect example of being unfiltered because I've never really said this before, but it's going to be some strong stuff in the process of that. 00:09:48.999 --> 00:09:58.826 [Jeff Reed] So once again, if you've got hate email you want to send my way, go ahead and send it to Leighton, L-E-I-G-H-T-O-N, leighton at thechurch.digital. 00:09:58.887 --> 00:10:03.790 [Jeff Reed] Leighton would love to have a conversation with you about that, and that'll be great. 00:10:04.340 --> 00:10:08.790 [Jeff Reed] Look, the heart of this is we keep picking one. 00:10:10.532 --> 00:10:13.218 [Jeff Reed] And this is me, I'm guilty of it. 00:10:13.539 --> 00:10:15.623 [Jeff Reed] And so like, I'm not, this is me trying to figure it out. 00:10:16.832 --> 00:10:17.752 [Jeff Reed] Jesus wanted both. 00:10:18.272 --> 00:10:19.534 [Jeff Reed] Jesus modeled both. 00:10:20.414 --> 00:10:28.660 [Jeff Reed] And we, for some reason, I'm saying Americans, I'm suggesting maybe even at a larger level globally, we keep picking one. 00:10:28.719 --> 00:10:30.861 [Jeff Reed] We're either mission or we're the church. 00:10:31.200 --> 00:10:35.784 [Jeff Reed] Very rarely in digital space do I see us being both. 00:10:35.883 --> 00:10:39.247 [Jeff Reed] So let's work through this together and kind of see where we end up here. 00:10:40.547 --> 00:10:41.910 [Jeff Reed] there's go and there's gather. 00:10:42.310 --> 00:10:44.813 [Jeff Reed] There's missiology, which is go. 00:10:44.872 --> 00:10:45.694 [Jeff Reed] It's the scattering. 00:10:45.734 --> 00:10:46.996 [Jeff Reed] It's the dispersion. 00:10:47.095 --> 00:10:52.502 [Jeff Reed] It's go out and be the light of Christ in these dark areas. 00:10:53.324 --> 00:10:54.545 [Jeff Reed] And then there's the gather. 00:10:55.347 --> 00:11:06.535 [Jeff Reed] which is the ecclesiology, the coming together, often on Sunday mornings in today's culture, but it's the study of the church, what it is, how it gathers, who it belongs to, who it leads to. 00:11:07.015 --> 00:11:10.517 [Jeff Reed] And it feels like there's a tension. 00:11:10.978 --> 00:11:20.765 [Jeff Reed] I almost want to call up Ed Stetzer and sit down and have a convo with Ed Stetzer on this and probably get beat up because Ed's aggressive on some of the digital stuff. 00:11:21.166 --> 00:11:23.927 [Jeff Reed] But figuring out this, because the relationship... 00:11:24.608 --> 00:11:34.472 [Jeff Reed] between the go, the missiology, the sending, the missionary, and the gathering, the ecclesiology, is very strong. 00:11:35.313 --> 00:11:40.954 [Jeff Reed] It's funny, New Thing actually uses the phrase, Exponential now uses the term, missional imagination. 00:11:41.655 --> 00:11:54.300 [Jeff Reed] Like, they talk about this, understanding the gospel well enough to imagine how to display it in other areas, and they're far more aggressive, missionaries are, in experimenting, in learning new tips and techniques, 00:11:54.621 --> 00:11:59.464 [Jeff Reed] and going into new areas and new structures and new environments. 00:11:59.824 --> 00:12:08.231 [Jeff Reed] Like, you know, Craig Groeschel, ironically, a pastor, but he says, you know, we'll do anything for the cause of Christ, anything short of sin for the cause of Christ. 00:12:08.470 --> 00:12:14.675 [Jeff Reed] And that's a perfect example of what a missionary, a digital missionary is doing. 00:12:15.175 --> 00:12:28.498 [Jeff Reed] I mean, we've got people streaming in different Discord, streaming in Twitch channels, WhatsApp, YouTube, creating communities through apps and Facebook and Instagram. 00:12:28.819 --> 00:12:38.862 [Jeff Reed] And like they're utilizing these digital tools, not as a communications tool, but as a community tool to establish relationships, to build relationships, to establish trust. 00:12:39.801 --> 00:12:44.184 [Jeff Reed] and to eventually share Christ, evangelism, and discipleship in these spaces. 00:12:44.424 --> 00:12:46.766 [Jeff Reed] And by the way, it's working. 00:12:47.465 --> 00:12:52.007 [Jeff Reed] The methods are working, and this is not an experiment anymore. 00:12:52.907 --> 00:13:03.272 [Jeff Reed] So the missiology of digital is working, but when we start to get into the ecclesiology of a digital church, you can't do that. 00:13:03.473 --> 00:13:04.294 [Jeff Reed] You can't, you can't. 00:13:05.834 --> 00:13:06.775 [Jeff Reed] If we look at Jesus, 00:13:08.263 --> 00:13:11.565 [Jeff Reed] This is hard for me because I put on my blinders. 00:13:11.626 --> 00:13:13.026 [Jeff Reed] This is confession hour for Jeff here. 00:13:13.686 --> 00:13:15.208 [Jeff Reed] I put on my blinders to the church. 00:13:16.128 --> 00:13:16.608 [Jeff Reed] I'm done. 00:13:17.268 --> 00:13:18.530 [Jeff Reed] It's one of the reasons I confess. 00:13:18.550 --> 00:13:20.430 [Jeff Reed] It's one of the reasons why I don't go to the conferences anymore. 00:13:20.670 --> 00:13:27.935 [Jeff Reed] It's a bunch of church people that are doing church things, and I love what they're doing, but they don't understand me and what I'm trying to do. 00:13:27.954 --> 00:13:35.359 [Jeff Reed] They're not supporting, and I just, I'm not, in my heart, I'm trying to be humble in this, but I'm just, I'm tired of the fight. 00:13:36.339 --> 00:13:38.241 [Jeff Reed] I'm tired of the fight. 00:13:39.943 --> 00:13:43.364 [Jeff Reed] Jesus does talk about both. 00:13:43.885 --> 00:13:46.667 [Jeff Reed] He does talk about the mission of things here. 00:13:47.327 --> 00:13:52.551 [Jeff Reed] Again, Jesus said to them, peace be with you, as the Father has sent me, so I am sending you. 00:13:52.691 --> 00:13:55.232 [Jeff Reed] He constantly was sending people out. 00:13:55.333 --> 00:14:02.798 [Jeff Reed] And it was funny, you know, of course, any digital missionaries go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit. 00:14:04.239 --> 00:14:14.083 [Jeff Reed] It's funny, there's a story that I constantly tell about this, about the demon-possessed man who had the legion. 00:14:14.643 --> 00:14:18.864 [Jeff Reed] You know, the guy who had like 100 or so, whatever it was, I don't know what the number was, demons in him. 00:14:19.344 --> 00:14:22.706 [Jeff Reed] And Jesus came upon him and cast the demon out to the swine. 00:14:23.065 --> 00:14:26.267 [Jeff Reed] The swine run over the cliff and dive into the water and die. 00:14:27.168 --> 00:14:27.648 [Jeff Reed] Poor pigs. 00:14:28.007 --> 00:14:30.669 [Jeff Reed] And then the disguise left without the demons healed. 00:14:31.209 --> 00:14:33.412 [Jeff Reed] And the guy's like, dude, you saved my life. 00:14:33.553 --> 00:14:34.153 [Jeff Reed] That's incredible. 00:14:34.173 --> 00:14:34.593 [Jeff Reed] Thank you. 00:14:34.955 --> 00:14:35.736 [Jeff Reed] What can I do? 00:14:36.658 --> 00:14:39.181 [Jeff Reed] He wanted to stay with Jesus. 00:14:40.487 --> 00:14:41.707 [Jeff Reed] He wanted to be the community. 00:14:41.727 --> 00:14:43.908 [Jeff Reed] He wanted to follow Jesus and go wherever Jesus went. 00:14:44.368 --> 00:14:46.429 [Jeff Reed] And Jesus said, no, no, no, no, you're not with us. 00:14:46.869 --> 00:14:48.028 [Jeff Reed] You go over here to Decapolis. 00:14:48.588 --> 00:14:51.190 [Jeff Reed] There's 10 cities that are up here in this nearby region. 00:14:51.630 --> 00:14:53.150 [Jeff Reed] They know you, they've seen you. 00:14:53.209 --> 00:14:54.831 [Jeff Reed] You go tell them what I did for you. 00:14:55.551 --> 00:15:02.513 [Jeff Reed] And he went, he was the first missionary in this town, in this area, in this region called Decapolis. 00:15:03.353 --> 00:15:03.993 [Jeff Reed] and got to do that. 00:15:04.033 --> 00:15:06.133 [Jeff Reed] He didn't get communion with Jesus. 00:15:06.755 --> 00:15:10.536 [Jeff Reed] He was the missionary who was sent to go be the light in the dark places. 00:15:10.937 --> 00:15:12.296 [Jeff Reed] And so there is that option. 00:15:12.316 --> 00:15:17.199 [Jeff Reed] There is that understanding, that missiology, that being sent goes into different places. 00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:17.820 [Jeff Reed] Now... 00:15:18.640 --> 00:15:32.682 [Jeff Reed] In fact, there is an option as well, and I'd love comments on this as we go through it, about building the church, about having a home base, a structure, a place. 00:15:32.722 --> 00:15:36.744 [Jeff Reed] But, you know, if you look at Scripture, I think it looks differently from what we're seeing here. 00:15:37.123 --> 00:15:38.884 [Jeff Reed] Like, let's look at Jesus here. 00:15:39.565 --> 00:15:46.006 [Jeff Reed] And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail. 00:15:46.065 --> 00:15:47.427 [Jeff Reed] Jesus also said, where to? 00:15:47.566 --> 00:15:47.967 [Jeff Reed] It's funny. 00:15:48.647 --> 00:15:53.371 [Jeff Reed] Okay, I'm going to build something in you, Peter, that the gates of hell, the gates of Hades will not prevail. 00:15:53.970 --> 00:15:58.695 [Jeff Reed] But where two or three are gathered in my name, there I am with them. 00:15:59.195 --> 00:16:08.122 [Jeff Reed] That right there doesn't paint the picture of a multimillion-dollar building taking shots at our U.S. friends. 00:16:09.161 --> 00:16:15.247 [Jeff Reed] Instead, it paints the picture of a much more organic, a much more dispersed world. 00:16:15.727 --> 00:16:20.048 [Jeff Reed] not limited by structure and place, but being able to spread among the people. 00:16:20.088 --> 00:16:20.650 [Jeff Reed] It's interesting. 00:16:20.850 --> 00:16:21.749 [Jeff Reed] I didn't plan it this way. 00:16:22.070 --> 00:16:23.170 [Jeff Reed] I'm wearing a shirt right now. 00:16:23.210 --> 00:16:24.111 [Jeff Reed] It's I Am Second. 00:16:24.170 --> 00:16:26.472 [Jeff Reed] It's with a missions organization. 00:16:26.513 --> 00:16:27.853 [Jeff Reed] Man, I really didn't plan it this way. 00:16:27.872 --> 00:16:30.235 [Jeff Reed] It was kind of ironic, just looking at myself on the screen. 00:16:30.715 --> 00:16:33.216 [Jeff Reed] No Place Left, E3 organization. 00:16:33.555 --> 00:16:38.179 [Jeff Reed] E3 plants churches, very organic style, and under like... 00:16:39.218 --> 00:16:41.101 [Jeff Reed] you know, three people under a palm tree. 00:16:41.401 --> 00:16:47.690 [Jeff Reed] You know, No Place Left would look at Matthew 18, 20 here and say, oh, three people under a palm tree, that's a church. 00:16:48.130 --> 00:16:49.431 [Jeff Reed] Let's go, let's get them going. 00:16:50.013 --> 00:16:55.238 [Jeff Reed] And so they take that church structure, but they make it very missional-minded. 00:16:56.140 --> 00:16:59.842 [Jeff Reed] John 13 here, a new commandment, I give you, love one another. 00:16:59.961 --> 00:17:03.024 [Jeff Reed] And as I have loved you, you must also love one another. 00:17:03.824 --> 00:17:06.486 [Jeff Reed] By this, everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another. 00:17:06.545 --> 00:17:08.707 [Jeff Reed] The church, we should love one another. 00:17:08.968 --> 00:17:10.468 [Jeff Reed] That's interesting. 00:17:10.988 --> 00:17:12.430 [Jeff Reed] That all of us may be one. 00:17:13.410 --> 00:17:15.651 [Jeff Reed] as you, Father, are in me and I am in you. 00:17:15.710 --> 00:17:21.092 [Jeff Reed] May they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me, John 17, there. 00:17:21.572 --> 00:17:34.354 [Jeff Reed] And so you're starting to see a picture of that the church was important to Jesus, and the missions, the spreading, the light and the darkness, was both important to Jesus. 00:17:35.312 --> 00:17:41.136 [Jeff Reed] And so it's interesting, you know, and when we look at digital missions, we're all for that. 00:17:41.677 --> 00:17:46.622 [Jeff Reed] And it was funny, when I was, when I first started with Stadia, I was the director of digital church planting. 00:17:47.082 --> 00:17:48.063 [Jeff Reed] This was pre-COVID. 00:17:48.743 --> 00:17:55.909 [Jeff Reed] And, you know, a lot of these pastors were very, pre-COVID, were very open to the idea of digital missions. 00:17:57.029 --> 00:17:59.833 [Jeff Reed] You know, being a light in the darkness is great. 00:18:00.873 --> 00:18:02.035 [Jeff Reed] Get them into our church buildings. 00:18:03.282 --> 00:18:11.128 [Jeff Reed] And so a digital missionary utilizing digital media to connect with people and invite them into a church building, which is not a bad strategy. 00:18:11.468 --> 00:18:15.792 [Jeff Reed] By the way, I'm running it right now very effectively for several churches here in Miami. 00:18:16.313 --> 00:18:24.199 [Jeff Reed] Like using digital with connecting to people, inviting them into a physical relationship is not a bad thing, but it's a limiter. 00:18:25.562 --> 00:18:28.142 [Jeff Reed] you are limited by the amount of people that you can reach. 00:18:28.963 --> 00:18:49.432 [Jeff Reed] I have to intentionally gate ad campaigns and intentionally structure SEO and Google and utilize Ai to, I'm gonna be honest here and I'm not mincing words, I have to limit the spread of the gospel because the church I'm feeding it into is not capable yet to where they can support remote discipleship. 00:18:50.380 --> 00:18:59.164 [Jeff Reed] And so I actually have to intentionally squelch it back a little bit, realizing that, hey, I need just a smaller area now. 00:18:59.265 --> 00:19:03.688 [Jeff Reed] I'm working with my churches to help them expand beyond their limitations digitally. 00:19:04.188 --> 00:19:19.837 [Jeff Reed] But let's recognize that to be effective, it is a limitation unless the church is ready to disciple people in digital space, which most churches say they are, but in practice are not. 00:19:21.565 --> 00:19:26.408 [Jeff Reed] If we're looking at digital missions, we are very comfortable with digital missions. 00:19:26.468 --> 00:19:29.769 [Jeff Reed] Let's go on the dark places, Facebook, whatever, and do that. 00:19:30.049 --> 00:19:30.729 [Jeff Reed] Hey, you know what? 00:19:30.850 --> 00:19:31.289 [Jeff Reed] I've got to. 00:19:31.851 --> 00:19:32.510 [Jeff Reed] I tell the story. 00:19:32.750 --> 00:19:35.671 [Jeff Reed] I tear up on this one because this one, this cuts deep for me. 00:19:35.812 --> 00:19:37.493 [Jeff Reed] I had a digital missionary friend. 00:19:39.633 --> 00:19:40.594 [Jeff Reed] He literally had shared. 00:19:40.634 --> 00:19:41.914 [Jeff Reed] He did some work with me in the past. 00:19:42.315 --> 00:19:45.356 [Jeff Reed] He literally had shared Jesus over 2,000 times in virtual reality. 00:19:46.257 --> 00:19:50.941 [Jeff Reed] documented, would walk up to people in VR chat and just start talking about Jesus. 00:19:51.501 --> 00:19:57.347 [Jeff Reed] He's a freaking John the Baptist of VR chat, walking around proclaiming, you know, the good news of Christ. 00:19:58.389 --> 00:20:00.450 [Jeff Reed] His church threatened to excommunicate him. 00:20:01.618 --> 00:20:07.121 [Jeff Reed] because they were not comfortable with the idea of what they were doing. 00:20:07.761 --> 00:20:20.068 [Jeff Reed] They very much—I'm sorry if there was an internet outage there, but my friend here was excommunicated or threatened to be excommunicated out of a church for sharing Jesus in virtual reality. 00:20:21.534 --> 00:20:25.978 [Jeff Reed] Not because he was incapable, but because that wasn't what the church would do. 00:20:28.081 --> 00:20:31.644 [Jeff Reed] You know, at the heart of it, I guess, the gospel doesn't belong in the church. 00:20:32.384 --> 00:20:34.368 [Jeff Reed] I'm sorry, the gospel doesn't belong in virtual reality. 00:20:36.028 --> 00:20:42.997 [Jeff Reed] And that's frustrating because as a general rule, churches like the missional aspect when it benefits them. 00:20:44.103 --> 00:20:52.247 [Jeff Reed] But to be honest, they're not yet comfortable with the idea of representing the church or being the church in digital space. 00:20:53.007 --> 00:21:04.713 [Jeff Reed] And so our desire to disciple, to grow people in a digital-only environment or even a hybrid environment, a physical and digital, still in 2026 has questions. 00:21:04.774 --> 00:21:05.674 [Jeff Reed] Now, why? 00:21:06.094 --> 00:21:07.114 [Jeff Reed] You know, we did it in COVID. 00:21:07.134 --> 00:21:08.436 [Jeff Reed] Well, you know, 300,000 churches in America and... 00:21:10.096 --> 00:21:11.398 [Jeff Reed] couple billion churches around the world. 00:21:11.438 --> 00:21:15.481 [Jeff Reed] Yeah, they did it during COVID with a gun to their head, and it wasn't a great experience. 00:21:15.862 --> 00:21:21.667 [Jeff Reed] They did it kicking and screaming, and right now they're kind of overcorrecting and saying, yeah, I never want to go back to that again. 00:21:22.408 --> 00:21:28.994 [Jeff Reed] What's interesting is I would say there is a percentage of churches that learned something in that season and do want to embrace it. 00:21:29.934 --> 00:21:35.018 [Jeff Reed] But I'll tell you, in my life right now, I've got a 40-year-old pastor who is... 00:21:37.217 --> 00:21:44.084 [Jeff Reed] very friendly to digital discipleship and utilizing digital here in America. 00:21:44.205 --> 00:21:52.455 [Jeff Reed] And I've got an early 40-year-old pastor who, to be honest, would do phenomenal in digital spaces, but wants nothing to do with it. 00:21:52.654 --> 00:21:55.317 [Jeff Reed] He's digital allergic, agnostic. 00:21:56.238 --> 00:21:59.462 [Jeff Reed] And that's not a bad thing necessarily. 00:22:00.044 --> 00:22:04.007 [Jeff Reed] It hurts me because I know there's so much potential that's there that we can't yet tap into. 00:22:04.548 --> 00:22:09.794 [Jeff Reed] But he's not comfortable with the idea of digital church. 00:22:10.555 --> 00:22:17.122 [Jeff Reed] And as digital missionaries and as people that are wanting to plant and start digital churches, welcome to our world. 00:22:18.028 --> 00:22:18.809 [Jeff Reed] This is a Tuesday. 00:22:19.470 --> 00:22:21.533 [Jeff Reed] This is just a normal day for us. 00:22:21.994 --> 00:22:23.936 [Jeff Reed] We are constantly living in this tension. 00:22:24.056 --> 00:22:34.429 [Jeff Reed] And for me, I'll confess, it's funny, I tell people on a regular basis, our operating budget with the Church Digital right now is under $1,000 a month. 00:22:36.482 --> 00:22:37.804 [Jeff Reed] Nobody's getting paid anything. 00:22:38.924 --> 00:22:42.587 [Jeff Reed] 100% volunteer-led, driven, funded. 00:22:42.628 --> 00:22:47.731 [Jeff Reed] The reason it's under $1,000 a month, because I'll just open up the checkbook, we get $950 a month in recurring donation. 00:22:52.413 --> 00:23:04.718 [Jeff Reed] givers, donors, people like you that are involved in the ministry of the Church Digital, give $5, $10, $20, $50, $100, different varying levels all the way through, and that money hits the Church Digital. 00:23:05.238 --> 00:23:08.738 [Jeff Reed] And that's why we're able to do the things that we're doing right now. 00:23:09.058 --> 00:23:10.038 [Jeff Reed] We're all bivocational. 00:23:10.058 --> 00:23:10.998 [Jeff Reed] We all have jobs. 00:23:11.258 --> 00:23:13.180 [Jeff Reed] And I say that to say... 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:19.722 [Jeff Reed] a lot of the support that we're looking for in the church space, to be honest, it's not there. 00:23:20.584 --> 00:23:26.767 [Jeff Reed] And for us in America, I think we're looking in the wrong place. 00:23:27.507 --> 00:23:33.390 [Jeff Reed] I think we need to be looking more in the missional space for that support and encouragement. 00:23:34.091 --> 00:23:36.092 [Jeff Reed] But to really connect the two together... 00:23:37.534 --> 00:23:43.235 [Jeff Reed] It really isn't about digital, about one side versus the other. 00:23:43.275 --> 00:23:48.555 [Jeff Reed] It's not about missional, and it's not about ecclesiology. 00:23:48.575 --> 00:23:50.596 [Jeff Reed] It's not about the church, and it's not about the mission. 00:23:51.336 --> 00:23:56.878 [Jeff Reed] It's about finding ways for us to work together, about finding ways to combine that together. 00:23:57.357 --> 00:23:58.638 [Jeff Reed] Well, hey, let's dig in here. 00:23:58.857 --> 00:24:00.139 [Jeff Reed] I want to get through some things here. 00:24:00.459 --> 00:24:01.578 [Jeff Reed] Point one, be humble. 00:24:02.969 --> 00:24:04.970 [Jeff Reed] The word comes before our ways. 00:24:05.071 --> 00:24:06.272 [Jeff Reed] Listen before you defend. 00:24:06.411 --> 00:24:08.493 [Jeff Reed] I suck at this. 00:24:08.513 --> 00:24:12.074 [Jeff Reed] A gentle answer turneth away wrath. 00:24:12.094 --> 00:24:13.256 [Jeff Reed] Mean words stir up anger. 00:24:14.036 --> 00:24:14.996 [Jeff Reed] Slow is the tongue. 00:24:15.276 --> 00:24:16.497 [Jeff Reed] A fool speaks quickly. 00:24:18.378 --> 00:24:20.558 [Jeff Reed] Like that, I'm the biggest idiot on the planet. 00:24:20.779 --> 00:24:22.980 [Jeff Reed] I do not know when to shut up. 00:24:23.000 --> 00:24:24.741 [Jeff Reed] That's the streamer at heart for me. 00:24:26.022 --> 00:24:28.984 [Jeff Reed] When there's silence, I just fill the room, and it's hard for me to listen. 00:24:30.293 --> 00:24:35.076 [Jeff Reed] And so in this situation, which is one of the reasons why I don't wanna go fight at these conferences anymore. 00:24:35.997 --> 00:24:41.722 [Jeff Reed] But those of you that are on that front line, I wanna challenge you, okay? 00:24:41.763 --> 00:24:46.247 [Jeff Reed] This is me, the guy that has been fighting the fight for a long time, passing it down to the next generation. 00:24:47.388 --> 00:24:48.288 [Jeff Reed] Be humble when you fight. 00:24:49.336 --> 00:24:56.279 [Jeff Reed] Do not go in disrupting, tearing down other systems, other processes, other methods to make yours look better. 00:24:56.980 --> 00:24:58.500 [Jeff Reed] The physical church is necessary. 00:24:58.862 --> 00:25:00.181 [Jeff Reed] The U.S. church is necessary. 00:25:00.221 --> 00:25:04.004 [Jeff Reed] The churches that God has established are ordained and established by God. 00:25:04.904 --> 00:25:09.566 [Jeff Reed] And we are not in place to cast judgment or rule upon them one way or the other. 00:25:11.034 --> 00:25:18.641 [Jeff Reed] What I wanna talk about is the missed opportunities and the people that the physical brick and mortar buildings are not connecting with. 00:25:19.141 --> 00:25:27.248 [Jeff Reed] Those that are so burned by the idea of church, they will never, ever set foot in a building, but hey, may have a conversation with somebody on Twitch or Discord. 00:25:27.808 --> 00:25:41.267 [Jeff Reed] Or somebody in a dark place overseas that is not even able to connect with a Christian in physical space because of persecution is able to connect with someone in a WhatsApp app or connect with somebody via Facebook Messenger. 00:25:41.626 --> 00:25:43.930 [Jeff Reed] Like, there is so much other opportunities. 00:25:45.007 --> 00:25:50.509 [Jeff Reed] beyond the established ecclesia that we need to explore. 00:25:51.311 --> 00:25:54.113 [Jeff Reed] And for us to really have the conversation, I want to challenge you. 00:25:54.152 --> 00:25:57.735 [Jeff Reed] Listen, oh, listen before you defend on here. 00:25:58.915 --> 00:26:01.136 [Jeff Reed] Tradition is not the enemy. 00:26:01.776 --> 00:26:05.099 [Jeff Reed] This is hard for me because I've spent a lot of years thinking that it was. 00:26:09.582 --> 00:26:10.583 [Jeff Reed] Putting it above the word is. 00:26:12.494 --> 00:26:14.775 [Jeff Reed] Tradition is not the thing that we're fighting against. 00:26:16.176 --> 00:26:18.836 [Jeff Reed] Old mindset is not the thing that we're fighting against. 00:26:20.918 --> 00:26:29.142 [Jeff Reed] Extra-biblical opinion that's limiting what the Bible is saying, that's what we're fighting against. 00:26:30.461 --> 00:26:32.263 [Jeff Reed] It's not that tradition is bad. 00:26:32.323 --> 00:26:32.902 [Jeff Reed] Actually, it's funny. 00:26:32.922 --> 00:26:38.665 [Jeff Reed] I actually know a couple very traditional churches that are doing very well. 00:26:39.926 --> 00:26:44.591 [Jeff Reed] but they've adapted more of a digital mindset with connecting and spreading across the board. 00:26:44.670 --> 00:26:46.372 [Jeff Reed] And so there's possibility to do that. 00:26:46.392 --> 00:26:48.414 [Jeff Reed] I mean, let's look at what Jesus said here. 00:26:48.495 --> 00:26:49.476 [Jeff Reed] I'm gonna love some of this. 00:26:49.496 --> 00:26:51.198 [Jeff Reed] You set aside, oh, that's a long one here. 00:26:51.857 --> 00:26:52.459 [Jeff Reed] Let's skip that one. 00:26:52.478 --> 00:26:54.381 [Jeff Reed] You can come back, we'll give this to you later. 00:26:55.382 --> 00:26:59.565 [Jeff Reed] Matthew 5, 17 and 18, do not think that I've come to abolish the law or the prophets. 00:27:00.427 --> 00:27:02.548 [Jeff Reed] I did not come to abolish them, but fulfill them. 00:27:03.209 --> 00:27:06.392 [Jeff Reed] We're going to talk more about this later, the Pharisees and the Sadducees. 00:27:06.452 --> 00:27:07.314 [Jeff Reed] I'm excited about that. 00:27:07.334 --> 00:27:11.596 [Jeff Reed] I had an aha moment a couple days ago, and I'm excited to see that come into play. 00:27:12.077 --> 00:27:19.904 [Jeff Reed] For I tell you, until heaven and earth passes away, not a single jot nor a stroke of a pen will disappear from the law until everything is accomplished. 00:27:20.726 --> 00:27:22.688 [Jeff Reed] Jesus didn't throw the law books away. 00:27:24.080 --> 00:27:25.540 [Jeff Reed] He embraced the law. 00:27:25.760 --> 00:27:27.961 [Jeff Reed] He completed the law for what it was. 00:27:28.362 --> 00:27:46.630 [Jeff Reed] The problem was that the Pharisees and Sadducees, I'll give a sneak peek, even though it was in front of them, they didn't realize what they had, and they persecuted him and challenged him because they were stuck in the mindset that there's no way this guy can be him because he is still to come. 00:27:47.289 --> 00:27:48.831 [Jeff Reed] It's sad for my friends. 00:27:48.891 --> 00:27:50.731 [Jeff Reed] Actually, this was a point of mourning for me. 00:27:50.751 --> 00:27:52.253 [Jeff Reed] I was in Israel a couple years ago. 00:27:52.833 --> 00:28:02.597 [Jeff Reed] And I mourned because all of these people, literally, I'm at the Wailing Wall seeing all of these people who are mourning for their Jesus to come. 00:28:02.698 --> 00:28:12.863 [Jeff Reed] And going back in the archives where all of these people are studying and getting into the Word in these libraries, reading over scrolls and pondering and praying with all their heart. 00:28:13.402 --> 00:28:14.244 [Jeff Reed] for God to come. 00:28:14.764 --> 00:28:20.587 [Jeff Reed] And it's like, I just, I broke inside because I'm like, dude, you missed him. 00:28:21.488 --> 00:28:34.816 [Jeff Reed] I almost, I didn't want to go on the trip because I just felt so bad that there's thousands of millions of people who have devouted themselves so passionately to something and have totally 100% missed the boat. 00:28:38.038 --> 00:28:41.500 [Jeff Reed] Jesus didn't come to abolish the law or throw it away. 00:28:42.141 --> 00:28:43.161 [Jeff Reed] He came to complete it. 00:28:43.181 --> 00:28:44.142 [Jeff Reed] Now watch what he says here. 00:28:44.822 --> 00:28:54.487 [Jeff Reed] Take my yoke upon you, digital missionaries, pay attention to this, and learn from me, for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 00:28:55.965 --> 00:29:00.110 [Jeff Reed] Gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. 00:29:00.150 --> 00:29:12.942 [Jeff Reed] I used to work with a guy, and when he'd go into some of these conversations, I'll be honest, he used to intentionally find the fight, and he would poke it with a stick, like poke the bear with the stick. 00:29:12.962 --> 00:29:14.064 [Jeff Reed] He knew there was going to be a problem. 00:29:14.765 --> 00:29:15.265 [Jeff Reed] It was funny. 00:29:15.305 --> 00:29:18.727 [Jeff Reed] Actually, I walked into one of these situations at the last conference I was at. 00:29:18.747 --> 00:29:19.727 [Jeff Reed] I'm not going to say what conference. 00:29:20.227 --> 00:29:24.109 [Jeff Reed] But literally, a guy knew how fired up I was, pro-digital. 00:29:24.849 --> 00:29:27.370 [Jeff Reed] And there was another guy who was very anti-digital. 00:29:28.029 --> 00:29:30.270 [Jeff Reed] And the guy put the two of us together in a conversation. 00:29:30.371 --> 00:29:34.613 [Jeff Reed] We started this huge fight between me and this other individual. 00:29:34.632 --> 00:29:35.712 [Jeff Reed] I apologize for it later. 00:29:38.173 --> 00:29:40.937 [Jeff Reed] gentle and humble or not, I can't say, yeah, there was this huge fight. 00:29:41.458 --> 00:29:46.222 [Jeff Reed] And then look at the scripture where it says gentle and humble and think, oh, yeah, I represented Christ in that moment. 00:29:46.683 --> 00:29:50.688 [Jeff Reed] Yeah, I represented the Holy Spirit, love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control. 00:29:51.228 --> 00:29:59.277 [Jeff Reed] That's totally what I was doing when I was yelling at this guy for wasting millions of digital connections by not leading them into some sort of a discipleship pathway. 00:30:03.184 --> 00:30:08.165 [Jeff Reed] You know, it's funny, afterwards, when I apologized, he apologized as well. 00:30:08.585 --> 00:30:10.626 [Jeff Reed] He's like, Jeff, I had no idea who you were. 00:30:11.086 --> 00:30:12.987 [Jeff Reed] I thought, literally, he's like, I had no idea who you were. 00:30:13.007 --> 00:30:15.267 [Jeff Reed] I just thought you were some pastor talking about this. 00:30:15.347 --> 00:30:15.908 [Jeff Reed] I didn't know you. 00:30:15.968 --> 00:30:16.908 [Jeff Reed] I know the Church Digital. 00:30:16.928 --> 00:30:17.688 [Jeff Reed] I know what you're doing. 00:30:18.507 --> 00:30:19.547 [Jeff Reed] And I apologized. 00:30:19.587 --> 00:30:26.549 [Jeff Reed] I was like, yeah, I explained the situation where, you know, both of us got set up for the fight, so to speak. 00:30:27.650 --> 00:30:30.051 [Jeff Reed] But, you know, and he said, he said, well, let's follow up and let's talk. 00:30:31.051 --> 00:30:31.371 [Jeff Reed] We didn't. 00:30:33.208 --> 00:30:41.651 [Jeff Reed] the damage was done, I came at it too strong and aggressive rather than listening, rather than being humble and gentle. 00:30:42.651 --> 00:30:43.792 [Jeff Reed] You know, it's interesting here. 00:30:43.812 --> 00:30:44.971 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at the Philippines. 00:30:46.093 --> 00:30:57.297 [Jeff Reed] Who exists in the form of God, did not consider equality, emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being humble, being made in human likeness, and being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself. 00:30:58.056 --> 00:31:00.158 [Jeff Reed] and became obedient to death, even death on the cross. 00:31:00.777 --> 00:31:02.759 [Jeff Reed] We've been talking about this scattered Bible study. 00:31:03.198 --> 00:31:04.439 [Jeff Reed] You know, it talks about Jesus. 00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:05.801 [Jeff Reed] I don't want to say it's Acts. 00:31:07.381 --> 00:31:08.821 [Jeff Reed] Maybe it's the end of Acts 1. 00:31:09.002 --> 00:31:10.663 [Jeff Reed] I'm sorry, end of 1 Peter 1. 00:31:10.723 --> 00:31:12.743 [Jeff Reed] Maybe it's the first part of 1 Peter 2. 00:31:14.125 --> 00:31:17.185 [Jeff Reed] But we're talking about the cornerstone. 00:31:17.685 --> 00:31:19.067 [Jeff Reed] You know, Jesus is the cornerstone. 00:31:19.906 --> 00:31:21.388 [Jeff Reed] The builders built the cornerstone. 00:31:21.408 --> 00:31:22.607 [Jeff Reed] They rejected the cornerstone. 00:31:22.928 --> 00:31:25.370 [Jeff Reed] This is the process it goes through in about three or four verses. 00:31:26.591 --> 00:31:30.533 [Jeff Reed] The builders built the cornerstone, Jesus. 00:31:30.593 --> 00:31:31.873 [Jeff Reed] Jesus is the cornerstone. 00:31:32.435 --> 00:31:34.997 [Jeff Reed] We, like Jesus, need to be cornerstones. 00:31:35.477 --> 00:31:39.699 [Jeff Reed] The builders rejected Jesus, destroyed the cornerstone. 00:31:40.381 --> 00:31:42.942 [Jeff Reed] We will be rejected like Jesus. 00:31:43.882 --> 00:31:45.024 [Jeff Reed] It literally talks about that. 00:31:45.064 --> 00:32:03.431 [Jeff Reed] Now, the context of the scripture is talking to displaced Christians in first century who have left Jerusalem and are now the light in other areas that are being house churches, that are being the light in hostile lands. 00:32:06.652 --> 00:32:08.835 [Jeff Reed] And so there's an opportunity. 00:32:08.915 --> 00:32:16.080 [Jeff Reed] When he says here, he humbled himself and became obedient to death, I mean, that's what Jesus did for us. 00:32:16.920 --> 00:32:19.382 [Jeff Reed] And it's interesting, that's the challenge for us. 00:32:19.482 --> 00:32:22.544 [Jeff Reed] Now, you know, I'm sitting in Miami, Florida on a camera. 00:32:22.625 --> 00:32:24.165 [Jeff Reed] I'm not being obedient to death. 00:32:25.908 --> 00:32:28.489 [Jeff Reed] I'll be doing this until I die, but that's not what they're talking about here. 00:32:29.210 --> 00:32:39.082 [Jeff Reed] I've got some friends that we're working with in some hostile, unfriendly-to-Christianity lands that would speak differently. 00:32:39.844 --> 00:33:01.136 [Jeff Reed] where, to be honest, constantly I'm praying for them that they're not going to get the knock on the door from the police, that we are being safe and secure in communications, and that they are able to continue to be the light in the dark ways, and that God would allow ministry to continue on behind some of these, in some of these dark areas. 00:33:01.777 --> 00:33:05.819 [Jeff Reed] And so the idea of a digital missionary being obedient to death is... 00:33:07.685 --> 00:33:08.346 [Jeff Reed] is a reality. 00:33:09.366 --> 00:33:12.348 [Jeff Reed] And some of us, we are facing persecution. 00:33:12.768 --> 00:33:26.935 [Jeff Reed] You know, I've constantly been having conversations about what's happening in the metaverse, VR church, Oasis church, and others that are facing persecution, not from outside the church with people being stupid, but from Christians inside the church who are being stupid. 00:33:27.357 --> 00:33:31.098 [Jeff Reed] People that are coming in, Christians that are coming in, just this troll. 00:33:32.058 --> 00:33:46.632 [Jeff Reed] And being, you know, I'll be honest, as a volunteer who doesn't get paid anything, who's trying to be the light of the world in the darkness, you know, dark arrows being shot at me, Satan shots at me personally, eh, okay, they hurt. 00:33:47.614 --> 00:33:50.714 [Jeff Reed] It's the friendly fire that kills. 00:33:51.314 --> 00:33:53.234 [Jeff Reed] It's the friendly fire that wipes me out. 00:33:53.955 --> 00:33:56.315 [Jeff Reed] And so, I mean, I could tell you some fun stories. 00:33:56.455 --> 00:33:57.096 [Jeff Reed] I'm not going to. 00:33:57.156 --> 00:34:03.078 [Jeff Reed] But the reality is that that's some of that support that I would love to see the church. 00:34:03.477 --> 00:34:05.158 [Jeff Reed] There was somebody who hit up on Discord. 00:34:05.518 --> 00:34:05.879 [Jeff Reed] It was funny. 00:34:05.899 --> 00:34:07.978 [Jeff Reed] It was right after they were part of one of the scattered thing. 00:34:07.998 --> 00:34:10.500 [Jeff Reed] We were talking about, you know, being that support system. 00:34:11.540 --> 00:34:17.381 [Jeff Reed] And somebody said on Discord recently, forgive me if you're watching, I just, I can't pull the name real quick. 00:34:17.401 --> 00:34:22.922 [Jeff Reed] But somebody said, I don't understand what digital missionaries do who don't have the church digital. 00:34:23.542 --> 00:34:32.044 [Jeff Reed] Like, what support system do you have to help you in the ministry, to encourage you, to uplift you, to pray for you? 00:34:32.544 --> 00:34:33.805 [Jeff Reed] Who is supporting you? 00:34:33.844 --> 00:34:38.386 [Jeff Reed] Because there's so little support that's out there in these spaces. 00:34:39.286 --> 00:34:40.486 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at what the church does. 00:34:41.386 --> 00:34:42.348 [Jeff Reed] This is Acts here. 00:34:42.669 --> 00:34:48.701 [Jeff Reed] It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not cause trouble for the Gentiles that are turning to God. 00:34:49.714 --> 00:34:51.136 [Jeff Reed] Okay, let's talk about context here. 00:34:52.475 --> 00:35:01.478 [Jeff Reed] This is Peter, I believe, coming in in one of the fights that Peter had with, this is the Jerusalem Council, yeah. 00:35:02.038 --> 00:35:03.819 [Jeff Reed] And they were trying to figure out what to do with these Gentiles. 00:35:03.839 --> 00:35:06.401 [Jeff Reed] So, you know, a bunch of Jews finding Jesus is great. 00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:08.221 [Jeff Reed] Well, Jews are God's chosen people, right? 00:35:08.701 --> 00:35:09.902 [Jeff Reed] And so let them do it. 00:35:10.201 --> 00:35:12.002 [Jeff Reed] You know, whatever you need to do. 00:35:12.823 --> 00:35:13.964 [Jeff Reed] And they're circumcised. 00:35:14.004 --> 00:35:14.904 [Jeff Reed] They're okay. 00:35:14.944 --> 00:35:16.585 [Jeff Reed] God's ordained it. 00:35:16.625 --> 00:35:16.944 [Jeff Reed] We're good. 00:35:17.864 --> 00:35:22.167 [Jeff Reed] Around Acts 15, they started questioning and saying, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. 00:35:22.207 --> 00:35:24.006 [Jeff Reed] That guy's uncircumcised over there. 00:35:24.107 --> 00:35:24.908 [Jeff Reed] That guy's a Gentile. 00:35:25.268 --> 00:35:26.768 [Jeff Reed] We got another couple of Gentiles over here. 00:35:27.109 --> 00:35:27.908 [Jeff Reed] Who told that guy? 00:35:27.928 --> 00:35:29.169 [Jeff Reed] That guy's not allowed to know. 00:35:29.730 --> 00:35:35.071 [Jeff Reed] Organically, the gospel spread outside of the Jewish circles. 00:35:35.591 --> 00:35:40.754 [Jeff Reed] And now Gentiles who weren't supposed to know about Jesus started finding out about Jesus. 00:35:40.794 --> 00:35:42.995 [Jeff Reed] So they brought together a Jerusalem council. 00:35:43.754 --> 00:35:46.277 [Jeff Reed] to figure out what are we going to do and what did they say. 00:35:48.120 --> 00:35:51.844 [Jeff Reed] We should not cause trouble for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 00:35:53.442 --> 00:35:59.165 [Jeff Reed] I'm gonna be honest, I don't see much different parallel here to what's happening in digital spaces. 00:35:59.944 --> 00:36:01.665 [Jeff Reed] Digital missionaries, we know this. 00:36:02.685 --> 00:36:14.808 [Jeff Reed] The people that we're reaching in Twitch, in virtual reality, in Discord, the people that we're engaging with digitally in the ways that we are in closed countries, overseas, in post-Christian environments across the planet, 00:36:16.665 --> 00:36:23.589 [Jeff Reed] The people that we're reaching are not the people that are going to Sunday morning service in any church. 00:36:23.728 --> 00:36:30.872 [Jeff Reed] And rather than the church being afraid of what you're doing, the church, to be honest, should be embracing. 00:36:31.652 --> 00:36:33.292 [Jeff Reed] The church shouldn't be questioning. 00:36:34.192 --> 00:36:42.676 [Jeff Reed] The church needs to arms open, hug and support and start saying, how can we help you find and connect with more Gentiles? 00:36:42.736 --> 00:36:43.857 [Jeff Reed] I mean, more digital people. 00:36:47.424 --> 00:36:48.946 [Jeff Reed] How can we help? 00:36:51.107 --> 00:36:52.107 [Jeff Reed] When's the last time you've heard that? 00:36:54.029 --> 00:36:55.129 [Jeff Reed] It's been a while, right? 00:36:55.951 --> 00:37:01.335 [Jeff Reed] You know, I may hear it occasionally from one or two people, but nothing really comes about it. 00:37:02.694 --> 00:37:11.721 [Jeff Reed] A lot of people, I think, are interested in the story, but to be honest, they don't know how to quantify it and turn the trigger and figure out how to help. 00:37:11.741 --> 00:37:14.243 [Jeff Reed] We're going to get more into that in a little bit. 00:37:14.562 --> 00:37:19.165 [Jeff Reed] But realize, as humble missionaries in this space, 00:37:20.948 --> 00:37:22.129 [Jeff Reed] You know, I don't want to get into that. 00:37:22.348 --> 00:37:22.770 [Jeff Reed] We know this. 00:37:22.810 --> 00:37:25.511 [Jeff Reed] We're guests on the phones of the people that we're connecting with. 00:37:25.973 --> 00:37:27.553 [Jeff Reed] We need to use their platform. 00:37:27.573 --> 00:37:31.357 [Jeff Reed] We need to embrace and be part in their church and adapt their culture. 00:37:32.058 --> 00:37:35.440 [Jeff Reed] We need to work on their timing, not ours. 00:37:36.622 --> 00:37:44.009 [Jeff Reed] The work of a digital missionary is very, very sacrificial, very time-consuming. 00:37:44.149 --> 00:37:44.790 [Jeff Reed] I know that. 00:37:44.910 --> 00:37:45.569 [Jeff Reed] I live that. 00:37:46.451 --> 00:37:50.232 [Jeff Reed] I mean, shoot, I'm using Ai in incredible freaking ways. 00:37:50.712 --> 00:38:03.435 [Jeff Reed] And even with that, and even how Ai is multiplying all this stuff and using it well, it still is a huge, I started to say time suck, that's too negative, but it is a time expenditure. 00:38:04.455 --> 00:38:13.919 [Jeff Reed] But as we're sacrificing as digital missionaries, I think it's important that we stay not only humble, as we just talked about in that environment, 00:38:15.482 --> 00:38:19.464 [Jeff Reed] But number two, we need to be comfortable with the disruption. 00:38:20.986 --> 00:38:21.846 [Jeff Reed] You know, I will say this. 00:38:21.946 --> 00:38:25.468 [Jeff Reed] I actually, I got some negative attention to Church Digital did. 00:38:25.988 --> 00:38:41.194 [Jeff Reed] Several years ago, one of our associates, Chesley Lundy, wrote an article through the Church Digital about, I don't know, the intentionality of disrupting the virtual church, I think was what it was about. 00:38:42.236 --> 00:38:42.435 [Jeff Reed] And... 00:38:45.239 --> 00:38:46.281 [Jeff Reed] It was an aggressive article. 00:38:47.661 --> 00:38:49.263 [Jeff Reed] It was an aggressive article. 00:38:49.303 --> 00:38:49.982 [Jeff Reed] I was fine with it. 00:38:50.042 --> 00:38:50.944 [Jeff Reed] I read it in advance. 00:38:51.544 --> 00:38:53.064 [Jeff Reed] I knew who was writing it. 00:38:53.225 --> 00:38:58.149 [Jeff Reed] It was in a public publication, from what I recall, and the words were fine. 00:38:58.408 --> 00:39:01.670 [Jeff Reed] It wasn't negative or anything bad, necessarily, but... 00:39:02.892 --> 00:39:05.913 [Jeff Reed] Some of our friends that weren't digital-friendly found the fence at it. 00:39:06.732 --> 00:39:25.680 [Jeff Reed] And, you know, God rest his soul, John MacArthur was one of these that objected very strongly, and his organization actually wrote an open letter in response to what we did, our article, about how the church does not need disruption. 00:39:26.980 --> 00:39:29.341 [Jeff Reed] and cited a number of reasons why, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. 00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:33.721 [Jeff Reed] It's funny, I've got on the bookshelf behind me, I actually have a John MacArthur study Bible. 00:39:34.422 --> 00:39:35.221 [Jeff Reed] I love John MacArthur. 00:39:35.261 --> 00:39:38.882 [Jeff Reed] John MacArthur's, okay, John MacArthur went a little weird at the end of his life. 00:39:39.243 --> 00:39:40.602 [Jeff Reed] I'm not gonna defend that. 00:39:40.623 --> 00:39:55.067 [Jeff Reed] I'm not a John MacArthur apologist, but John MacArthur as a pastor, John MacArthur as some of the work that he did in biblical counseling, like I'm gonna be honest, John MacArthur was a very strong part of my life 00:39:55.946 --> 00:40:21.257 [Jeff Reed] with his works in my 20s and 30s, which made it very uncomfortable and very infuriating when John MacArthur, rest his soul, is throwing shots at me and Chesley by name and naming my organization, The Church Digital, personally in his response, driving all sorts of negative traffic and noise around The Church Digital. 00:40:22.078 --> 00:40:22.859 [Jeff Reed] It was interesting. 00:40:23.158 --> 00:40:29.643 [Jeff Reed] I actually had a very poignant, angry response that I had drafted and not sent. 00:40:30.305 --> 00:40:33.346 [Jeff Reed] I've told this story a couple times, and I was on The Verge's ending it. 00:40:33.747 --> 00:40:37.169 [Jeff Reed] My wife called me and said, don't press send. 00:40:37.611 --> 00:40:38.370 [Jeff Reed] I needed to hear that. 00:40:40.033 --> 00:40:41.132 [Jeff Reed] I never hear from her at school. 00:40:41.152 --> 00:40:46.238 [Jeff Reed] She called me because she saw how frustrated I was, and she called me from school, and she's like, don't press send. 00:40:47.437 --> 00:40:48.279 [Jeff Reed] She says, think about it. 00:40:48.339 --> 00:40:49.779 [Jeff Reed] John MacArthur knows who you are. 00:40:51.042 --> 00:40:59.692 [Jeff Reed] And so, you know, with some badge of honor, he is the highest ranking old white male who knew of the church digital at that time. 00:40:59.712 --> 00:41:02.535 [Jeff Reed] There are some others probably in that vein as well. 00:41:02.995 --> 00:41:06.219 [Jeff Reed] But the reality was, was that we disrupted. 00:41:07.799 --> 00:41:10.381 [Jeff Reed] we got under the skin of somebody. 00:41:10.460 --> 00:41:14.881 [Jeff Reed] And I hated the negative connotation that it had come about with. 00:41:15.442 --> 00:41:18.984 [Jeff Reed] To be honest, we do try to be very relational. 00:41:19.103 --> 00:41:30.267 [Jeff Reed] I did, instead of the angry response, it was funny, it was right when this happened within a week of my book on virtual reality, VR in the Metaverse Church, published. 00:41:31.145 --> 00:41:39.948 [Jeff Reed] And so I invited John to come on my stream, to be on this stream, to talk about it, to have an open forum about the pros and cons of digital ministry. 00:41:40.027 --> 00:41:44.647 [Jeff Reed] If not John, maybe somebody from his organization would love to have a talk. 00:41:44.908 --> 00:41:49.669 [Jeff Reed] I was very gentle in the response. 00:41:49.709 --> 00:41:57.131 [Jeff Reed] And I even had trusted people kind of read it to make sure that I wasn't being overly intentional. 00:41:57.170 --> 00:41:58.790 [Jeff Reed] Never responded, never engaged. 00:42:00.214 --> 00:42:02.506 [Jeff Reed] People are going to be disrupted by what we're doing. 00:42:03.638 --> 00:42:09.881 [Jeff Reed] You know, even pastors that are very close to me, I'll be honest, have no idea how to support me. 00:42:11.642 --> 00:42:18.185 [Jeff Reed] To be honest, like one of my best friends, I was telling this story the other day, one of my best friends, maybe a decade ago, he used to live here in Miami. 00:42:18.205 --> 00:42:18.665 [Jeff Reed] He moved away. 00:42:18.685 --> 00:42:19.745 [Jeff Reed] He's not in Miami anymore. 00:42:20.565 --> 00:42:23.306 [Jeff Reed] And he calls maybe once a month or so just to check in. 00:42:24.286 --> 00:42:30.069 [Jeff Reed] I don't talk about work with him, to be honest, because when I do, he's like, yeah, Jeff, I don't understand the word you're saying. 00:42:30.770 --> 00:42:32.411 [Jeff Reed] Because it's different. 00:42:33.272 --> 00:42:37.176 [Jeff Reed] And we, as digital missionaries, we have to be okay with it being different. 00:42:37.355 --> 00:42:41.078 [Jeff Reed] Now, we need to find support to help us that can help us be okay when we're different. 00:42:41.098 --> 00:42:44.381 [Jeff Reed] We need to find a team that can walk alongside us when it's different. 00:42:44.623 --> 00:42:48.145 [Jeff Reed] But we need to be okay with understanding that your pastor's not going to get it. 00:42:48.446 --> 00:42:50.908 [Jeff Reed] Your denomination's probably afraid it's going to spend too much money. 00:42:51.209 --> 00:42:54.571 [Jeff Reed] Your spouse and your friends aren't going to know how to support it because they've never seen it before. 00:42:54.792 --> 00:42:55.792 [Jeff Reed] They don't even know if it's okay. 00:42:57.699 --> 00:42:59.301 [Jeff Reed] That's the reality of where we are. 00:42:59.321 --> 00:43:01.442 [Jeff Reed] We've got to be comfortable with that. 00:43:02.042 --> 00:43:12.451 [Jeff Reed] Now, this is really interesting to me because I've started going down this road of the Pharisees and the Sadducees, looking at them together. 00:43:13.071 --> 00:43:16.294 [Jeff Reed] Once again, okay, I'm grounding Pharisees and Sadducees. 00:43:16.433 --> 00:43:17.654 [Jeff Reed] I think I said this in the Bible study. 00:43:18.076 --> 00:43:18.835 [Jeff Reed] I've said this privately. 00:43:18.855 --> 00:43:20.297 [Jeff Reed] It's the first time I've talked about this publicly. 00:43:20.977 --> 00:43:25.140 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees and the Sadducees, to me, it's this idea of... 00:43:28.645 --> 00:43:35.254 [Jeff Reed] Okay, I'm just going to be unfiltered here, and bear with me as I say this, because this has been my mind thought. 00:43:36.055 --> 00:43:39.660 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees and the Sadducees, they're not that much different from today's Church. 00:43:40.718 --> 00:43:42.538 [Jeff Reed] because they're grounded in traditionalism. 00:43:42.558 --> 00:43:43.178 [Jeff Reed] This is wrong. 00:43:43.598 --> 00:43:45.498 [Jeff Reed] I want to preface this, but this was my train of thought. 00:43:46.020 --> 00:43:49.980 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees and the Sadducees are not that different from today's modern church. 00:43:50.381 --> 00:44:03.785 [Jeff Reed] They're grounded in traditionalism, and with that traditionalism, they're actually looking Jesus in the face and not even able to see what he is saying because they're so stuck on the traditions that they have. 00:44:04.821 --> 00:44:05.142 [Jeff Reed] Okay? 00:44:05.922 --> 00:44:10.285 [Jeff Reed] Now, there is some merit to what I'm saying with that. 00:44:10.767 --> 00:44:13.308 [Jeff Reed] However, I don't think it holds up. 00:44:13.388 --> 00:44:24.457 [Jeff Reed] I do think the Pharisees and the Sadducees, they have got their issues, but they are, if we dig into Scripture, there is some separate issues that speak to that. 00:44:26.058 --> 00:44:29.422 [Jeff Reed] But they miss, but they miss on different points. 00:44:29.482 --> 00:44:32.805 [Jeff Reed] And so let's drill into this and see if we see some parallels. 00:44:33.904 --> 00:44:37.248 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees, let's look at Mark 7 here, 1 to 13. 00:44:37.288 --> 00:44:38.348 [Jeff Reed] This is a long one. 00:44:39.449 --> 00:44:44.413 [Jeff Reed] The heart of what we're going to see here is that they have tradition layered over Scripture. 00:44:45.314 --> 00:44:50.158 [Jeff Reed] So Scripture is the foundation, and tradition is what is... 00:44:52.234 --> 00:44:52.674 [Jeff Reed] a priority. 00:44:53.194 --> 00:44:54.975 [Jeff Reed] Let's see if we find that in the scripture here. 00:44:55.094 --> 00:44:55.594 [Jeff Reed] Mark 7. 00:44:55.895 --> 00:45:03.178 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees and some of the scribes who had come to Jerusalem gathered around Jesus and saw some of the disciples eating with hands that were defiled, that is, unwashed. 00:45:03.257 --> 00:45:09.020 [Jeff Reed] Now, in holding to the tradition of the elders, the Pharisees and all the Jews do not eat until they wash their hands ceremonially. 00:45:09.381 --> 00:45:11.701 [Jeff Reed] And on the returning of the market, they do not eat unless they wash. 00:45:12.241 --> 00:45:16.785 [Jeff Reed] And there are many other traditions for them to observe, including the washing of cups, blah, blah, blah. 00:45:16.984 --> 00:45:22.067 [Jeff Reed] So the Pharisees and scribes questioned Jesus, why do your disciples not walk in according to the tradition of the elders? 00:45:22.107 --> 00:45:23.207 [Jeff Reed] Instead, they eat with devout hands. 00:45:23.547 --> 00:45:27.009 [Jeff Reed] Jesus answered them, Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites. 00:45:27.529 --> 00:45:31.993 [Jeff Reed] As it is written, these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 00:45:34.853 --> 00:45:38.136 [Jeff Reed] These people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. 00:45:38.935 --> 00:45:40.196 [Jeff Reed] They worship me in vain. 00:45:41.866 --> 00:45:44.647 [Jeff Reed] They teach as doctrine the precepts of men. 00:45:45.248 --> 00:45:50.129 [Jeff Reed] You have disregarded the commandment of God to keep the tradition of men. 00:45:51.089 --> 00:45:55.149 [Jeff Reed] He went on to say, you neatly set aside the commands of God to maintain your own tradition. 00:45:55.169 --> 00:45:57.290 [Jeff Reed] For Moses said, honor your father and your mother. 00:45:57.350 --> 00:45:59.670 [Jeff Reed] Anyone who curses his father or mother must be put to death. 00:46:00.031 --> 00:46:03.232 [Jeff Reed] But you say a man must say to his father or mother, what good, blah, blah, blah. 00:46:03.491 --> 00:46:07.533 [Jeff Reed] Thus you nullify the word of God by the tradition you have handed down. 00:46:07.933 --> 00:46:08.832 [Jeff Reed] You nullify. 00:46:09.814 --> 00:46:10.513 [Jeff Reed] You void it. 00:46:11.850 --> 00:46:19.453 [Jeff Reed] by the traditions that you put on top, by the extra biblical, the outside of Bible traditions that are in place. 00:46:22.136 --> 00:46:27.018 [Jeff Reed] I've always said with digital churches, the first thing that we've got to do is go back to Acts. 00:46:27.879 --> 00:46:29.620 [Jeff Reed] What is the church called to be? 00:46:30.359 --> 00:46:32.902 [Jeff Reed] What is the biblical functions of today's church? 00:46:32.982 --> 00:46:36.303 [Jeff Reed] Worship, teaching, giving, like you can rile it off. 00:46:36.323 --> 00:46:37.084 [Jeff Reed] Look at Acts. 00:46:38.234 --> 00:46:38.995 [Jeff Reed] Oh crap, what is it? 00:46:39.076 --> 00:46:43.078 [Jeff Reed] Is it Acts 1, Acts 2, where it lists it out? 00:46:43.477 --> 00:46:44.899 [Jeff Reed] Like go back to that. 00:46:45.198 --> 00:46:48.160 [Jeff Reed] And it's funny, in no place left circles, it's called the church circle. 00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.661 [Jeff Reed] And there's 14 things. 00:46:49.701 --> 00:46:50.982 [Jeff Reed] I used to build it into my talks. 00:46:51.002 --> 00:46:53.303 [Jeff Reed] There's 14 things the church is called to do. 00:46:53.384 --> 00:46:55.665 [Jeff Reed] And to be honest, digitally, we can do all of them, 12 of them easy. 00:46:56.846 --> 00:46:59.469 [Jeff Reed] Where it gets weird is baptism and communion. 00:46:59.750 --> 00:47:01.332 [Jeff Reed] And we can have that conversation. 00:47:01.591 --> 00:47:06.558 [Jeff Reed] The first time my kid had communion was digitally at home with us during COVID, my son. 00:47:06.939 --> 00:47:08.361 [Jeff Reed] And, you know, he came out okay. 00:47:10.123 --> 00:47:27.620 [Jeff Reed] And so I know there's different traditions and different feelings about what that would look like within different denominational circles, but the reality is that you can execute a biblical function of church very well digitally. 00:47:29.283 --> 00:47:33.988 [Jeff Reed] It's the stuff that gets added on top of, really, that nullifies 00:47:36.279 --> 00:47:39.861 [Jeff Reed] what God's trying to do or can do digitally. 00:47:41.422 --> 00:48:01.357 [Jeff Reed] And as hard as it is for us to look for approval from today's church, to be honest, I feel like a lot of what we're battling against is, I can't highlight that, sorry, I thought I could, is nullifying the Word of God. 00:48:03.116 --> 00:48:19.939 [Jeff Reed] is that we digital churches, we digital missionaries, are following after scripture, and the people that are fighting against us may be nullifying the word of God by putting their traditions on top of it. 00:48:22.120 --> 00:48:23.000 [Jeff Reed] It's hard words, right? 00:48:25.901 --> 00:48:26.901 [Jeff Reed] I'm saying this publicly. 00:48:30.042 --> 00:48:31.082 [Jeff Reed] The one thing I ask is, 00:48:32.294 --> 00:48:43.779 [Jeff Reed] If you are a digital missionary and you are a digital church planter and you're thinking about going down this road and exploring and wanting to go down what's next, make sure you're grounded in the Word of God. 00:48:45.261 --> 00:48:47.781 [Jeff Reed] Please, make sure you're grounded in the Word of God. 00:48:48.861 --> 00:48:52.123 [Jeff Reed] All right, so that is the Pharisees' problem. 00:48:52.564 --> 00:48:55.645 [Jeff Reed] The Pharisees' problem put tradition over the Word. 00:48:56.245 --> 00:48:59.207 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at where the Sadducees were. 00:48:59.227 --> 00:49:01.908 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at what their problems were biblically. 00:49:04.236 --> 00:49:06.618 [Jeff Reed] All right, so Mark, where are we here? 00:49:06.678 --> 00:49:08.299 [Jeff Reed] Mark 12, that is the right one, right? 00:49:08.319 --> 00:49:09.020 [Jeff Reed] 18 to 27, yeah. 00:49:09.480 --> 00:49:10.681 [Jeff Reed] Mark 12, 18 to 27. 00:49:10.701 --> 00:49:13.564 [Jeff Reed] We'll fix that later. 00:49:13.884 --> 00:49:17.607 [Jeff Reed] Then the Sadducees, who said there is no resurrection, came to Jesus and questioned him. 00:49:18.127 --> 00:49:26.053 [Jeff Reed] Teacher, Moses wrote us that if a man's brother dies and leaves a wife but no children, that man is to marry his brother and raise up the offspring for him. 00:49:26.513 --> 00:49:27.533 [Jeff Reed] Now there were seven brothers. 00:49:27.553 --> 00:49:28.475 [Jeff Reed] The first one married and died. 00:49:28.495 --> 00:49:30.616 [Jeff Reed] You know, it's the typical trap they would do back then. 00:49:30.937 --> 00:49:32.457 [Jeff Reed] Then the second one marries and also died. 00:49:32.477 --> 00:49:35.620 [Jeff Reed] And in this way, none of the seven left any children. 00:49:35.741 --> 00:49:37.201 [Jeff Reed] At last, all of the women died. 00:49:38.082 --> 00:49:40.904 [Jeff Reed] In the resurrection then, whose wife will she be? 00:49:41.125 --> 00:49:43.727 [Jeff Reed] For she was married to all seven. 00:49:43.986 --> 00:49:45.348 [Jeff Reed] There was a movie about this, right? 00:49:45.388 --> 00:49:46.169 [Jeff Reed] No, I'm kidding. 00:49:46.209 --> 00:49:47.270 [Jeff Reed] Yeah, there was, but not really. 00:49:48.071 --> 00:49:53.875 [Jeff Reed] Jesus said to them, aren't you mistaken because you do not know the scripture or the power of God? 00:49:54.256 --> 00:49:58.181 [Jeff Reed] When the dead rise, they will neither marry nor be given in marriage. 00:49:58.660 --> 00:50:00.902 [Jeff Reed] Instead, they will be like angels in heaven. 00:50:01.723 --> 00:50:06.689 [Jeff Reed] But concerning the dead rising, have you not read about the burning bush in the book of Moses? 00:50:07.629 --> 00:50:12.652 [Jeff Reed] how God told him, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob. 00:50:13.352 --> 00:50:17.576 [Jeff Reed] He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. 00:50:17.596 --> 00:50:19.056 [Jeff Reed] You are badly mistaken. 00:50:19.716 --> 00:50:24.960 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at the other friend here, John 14, 48. 00:50:25.399 --> 00:50:28.381 [Jeff Reed] If we let him go on like this, everyone will believe him. 00:50:29.442 --> 00:50:34.844 [Jeff Reed] and then the Romans will come and take away both our place and our nation. 00:50:34.904 --> 00:50:38.705 [Jeff Reed] This is the Pharisees, Sadducees talking in this context. 00:50:39.906 --> 00:50:44.149 [Jeff Reed] They were scared about losing their place. 00:50:50.272 --> 00:50:50.991 [Jeff Reed] It's hard for me. 00:50:53.267 --> 00:51:01.975 [Jeff Reed] I have friends that work in multi-million dollar church buildings. 00:51:01.995 --> 00:51:09.142 [Jeff Reed] I, as of a couple months ago, was actually employed by a church working in a multi-million dollar church building. 00:51:09.821 --> 00:51:17.089 [Jeff Reed] I have a career of working in physical churches that are working in multi-million dollar church buildings. 00:51:18.290 --> 00:51:39.473 [Jeff Reed] And it's hard for me to look at the disdain away from digital ministry, the desire to stay away from digital ministry and digital mission work, the reason they're wanting to, without wondering, is this maybe because they're afraid if digital is successful, they can't pay for their mortgage? 00:51:41.174 --> 00:51:43.455 [Jeff Reed] That's a damaging accusation. 00:51:44.375 --> 00:51:44.794 [Jeff Reed] I don't... 00:51:46.861 --> 00:51:53.123 [Jeff Reed] I cannot tell you a specific instance of a conversation with a pastor or a person that has said that. 00:51:54.143 --> 00:51:57.683 [Jeff Reed] And so I cannot back that. 00:51:58.285 --> 00:52:03.526 [Jeff Reed] And I'm not looking to come into a swinging battle with someone in this context. 00:52:04.326 --> 00:52:09.027 [Jeff Reed] But I cannot help but wonder, you know what? 00:52:10.558 --> 00:52:16.640 [Jeff Reed] The Church Digital, we're being really effective in digital space on about $12,000 a year. 00:52:17.821 --> 00:52:25.803 [Jeff Reed] It's funny, when I was working for the multimillion dollar building, I was getting, buying stuff that was just thousands upon thousands of dollars. 00:52:25.843 --> 00:52:29.223 [Jeff Reed] And we were just, we were writing money, checks left and right. 00:52:29.663 --> 00:52:31.864 [Jeff Reed] And to be honest, I'm wincing a little bit. 00:52:33.609 --> 00:52:39.475 [Jeff Reed] Because I know, oh my gosh, could you imagine what a digital missionary could do with this? 00:52:39.495 --> 00:52:46.544 [Jeff Reed] Could you imagine what the impact would do with this, where we can be a light in darkness instead of trying to keep up with the Joneses? 00:52:48.426 --> 00:52:48.886 [Jeff Reed] It hurts. 00:52:50.348 --> 00:52:55.053 [Jeff Reed] And so the Pharisees and the Sadducees recognize they had two different issues. 00:52:55.834 --> 00:53:06.239 [Jeff Reed] That to be honest, I think today's church, I would say U.S., global, you can wrestle with this in your context and you can tell me, but I would say there's two different things they're wrestling with. 00:53:06.500 --> 00:53:10.701 [Jeff Reed] One, like the Pharisees, I do think they're putting tradition over the word. 00:53:12.221 --> 00:53:14.022 [Jeff Reed] in fear of digital because of that. 00:53:14.462 --> 00:53:26.388 [Jeff Reed] And our call as digital missionaries is that we have to put the Bible as the, not the foundation, but it is the truth of everything that we are doing in digital space. 00:53:26.448 --> 00:53:29.948 [Jeff Reed] Otherwise, we're guilty of doing the same thing that the Pharisees are doing. 00:53:31.460 --> 00:53:33.520 [Jeff Reed] Secondly, I swear this is going to be my next book. 00:53:33.560 --> 00:53:36.002 [Jeff Reed] Like, my head is spinning right now. 00:53:36.462 --> 00:53:55.589 [Jeff Reed] Secondly, as Sadducees, I do believe that the Church is guilty of, even subconsciously, leaning away from some of these experimental methods, what they would deem experimental, out of fear of losing the traditional footprint that they have. 00:53:57.870 --> 00:53:59.790 [Jeff Reed] And you can only look at movie theaters. 00:53:59.830 --> 00:54:12.038 [Jeff Reed] You can only look at seminaries, at schools that are very grounded in, that are losing properties and are leaning much more into long distance or remote learning. 00:54:12.339 --> 00:54:13.339 [Jeff Reed] It's always funny to me. 00:54:13.618 --> 00:54:14.839 [Jeff Reed] Who was I talking to the other day? 00:54:14.859 --> 00:54:16.281 [Jeff Reed] I was talking with somebody about this. 00:54:16.401 --> 00:54:17.442 [Jeff Reed] It is hilarious to me. 00:54:18.022 --> 00:54:28.149 [Jeff Reed] When I find a pastor who's gotten his master's and doctorate from a seminary via remote learning, like a seminary that's in another state that he only goes to like once a year. 00:54:29.210 --> 00:54:36.656 [Jeff Reed] It's hilarious to me when that guy's like, yeah, I don't believe in digital discipleship, but he got his master's and his doctorate via digital methods. 00:54:36.815 --> 00:54:39.138 [Jeff Reed] Sorry, kind of gone on that. 00:54:39.198 --> 00:54:41.640 [Jeff Reed] Different conversation for a different day. 00:54:43.074 --> 00:54:47.417 [Jeff Reed] but start to recognize maybe some of the challenges that today's church is facing. 00:54:48.736 --> 00:54:57.980 [Jeff Reed] And there may be some biblical tie-ins that we've got to overcome, help them understand. 00:54:58.841 --> 00:55:01.703 [Jeff Reed] How aggressive do you want to be in the space trying to change the church? 00:55:05.564 --> 00:55:12.306 [Jeff Reed] Understand that, and this is good too, mission broke out where the structure broke down. 00:55:14.165 --> 00:55:14.705 [Jeff Reed] Who was it? 00:55:15.065 --> 00:55:18.589 [Jeff Reed] I've had somebody on the stream here, a missiologist. 00:55:19.428 --> 00:55:21.029 [Jeff Reed] Oh my gosh, he's an Asian guy. 00:55:21.049 --> 00:55:22.392 [Jeff Reed] I've heard his name. 00:55:22.411 --> 00:55:24.573 [Jeff Reed] He's probably one of the smartest men I've ever had on this show. 00:55:25.053 --> 00:55:26.013 [Jeff Reed] Jason Morris, I'm sorry. 00:55:26.274 --> 00:55:27.955 [Jeff Reed] Jason Morris learned from this guy when he's on. 00:55:28.535 --> 00:55:30.518 [Jeff Reed] I've had two or three conversations with him. 00:55:31.319 --> 00:55:32.558 [Jeff Reed] But God is a mobile God. 00:55:34.301 --> 00:55:38.064 [Jeff Reed] God does not move when the church does not. 00:55:39.433 --> 00:55:42.295 [Jeff Reed] I've talked about this in Scattered. 00:55:42.676 --> 00:55:46.098 [Jeff Reed] If Stephen didn't die, we would not be here. 00:55:47.138 --> 00:55:53.442 [Jeff Reed] Biblically, Stephen had to die for the church to be persecuted, to be kicked out of Jerusalem. 00:55:53.922 --> 00:55:56.623 [Jeff Reed] Stephen's job was to be stoned. 00:55:57.243 --> 00:56:03.488 [Jeff Reed] Saul's job was to hold the coats, feel bad, guilty, have the Holy Spirit move and be the voice. 00:56:03.868 --> 00:56:07.410 [Jeff Reed] Paul would not be a thing had not Stephen sacrificed. 00:56:08.645 --> 00:56:11.435 [Jeff Reed] You know, we talk about serving to the point of death, even death on the cross. 00:56:11.797 --> 00:56:14.346 [Jeff Reed] Stephen did live that in his lifetime. 00:56:15.506 --> 00:56:24.272 [Jeff Reed] And the result of that in Acts brought about this scattered thing that we're seeing here, where it said, and Saul therefore was given approval to Stephen's death. 00:56:24.373 --> 00:56:31.536 [Jeff Reed] On that day, a great persecution broke out against the church in Jerusalem, and all except the apostles were scattered throughout Judea and Samaria. 00:56:31.556 --> 00:56:36.580 [Jeff Reed] A lot of these are who we're studying and talking about in the 1 Peter study of scattered. 00:56:37.181 --> 00:56:42.504 [Jeff Reed] These are God-fearing men buried Stephen and mourned him deeply, but Saul began to destroy the church. 00:56:42.564 --> 00:56:43.544 [Jeff Reed] Persecution came. 00:56:44.665 --> 00:56:49.848 [Jeff Reed] Those that have been scattered, preach the word wherever they went. 00:56:49.948 --> 00:56:53.330 [Jeff Reed] I've referenced this verse so many times in the Scattered Bible Study. 00:56:54.471 --> 00:57:00.634 [Jeff Reed] When the persecution came, the Christians ran, but not of cowardice. 00:57:02.355 --> 00:57:04.156 [Jeff Reed] God used the running to spread. 00:57:05.277 --> 00:57:09.299 [Jeff Reed] And as they were running, they spread the news of Jesus wherever they went. 00:57:11.355 --> 00:57:13.636 [Jeff Reed] First off, man, could we be capable of that? 00:57:13.937 --> 00:57:15.056 [Jeff Reed] That would be incredible. 00:57:15.576 --> 00:57:18.397 [Jeff Reed] But second, you can see in that persecution, God's doing the light. 00:57:18.658 --> 00:57:20.558 [Jeff Reed] Let's look at the early church as well. 00:57:20.819 --> 00:57:21.839 [Jeff Reed] Acts 11.1. 00:57:22.118 --> 00:57:25.759 [Jeff Reed] And the apostles' brothers through the Judea soon heard that the Gentiles also received the word. 00:57:26.199 --> 00:57:34.042 [Jeff Reed] So when Peter went up to Jerusalem and the circumcised believers took issue with him and said, you visited uncircumcised men and ate with them. 00:57:34.082 --> 00:57:34.863 [Jeff Reed] How dare you? 00:57:34.902 --> 00:57:36.703 [Jeff Reed] They are not approved people. 00:57:37.944 --> 00:57:39.263 [Jeff Reed] There's a joke about... 00:57:40.603 --> 00:57:41.785 [Jeff Reed] Genitals, I'm not gonna do. 00:57:42.745 --> 00:57:43.826 [Jeff Reed] Sorry, I apologize. 00:57:43.866 --> 00:57:45.567 [Jeff Reed] Don't censor me, YouTube. 00:57:46.428 --> 00:57:49.350 [Jeff Reed] But Peter began and explained to them the whole sequence of events. 00:57:49.509 --> 00:57:51.210 [Jeff Reed] I was in the city of Joppa praying. 00:57:51.571 --> 00:57:55.694 [Jeff Reed] And in a trance, I saw a vision of something like a large sheet being laid down by having the four corners. 00:57:55.714 --> 00:57:57.455 [Jeff Reed] I looked at it closely and saw a four-footed animal. 00:57:57.776 --> 00:57:58.216 [Jeff Reed] Well, peace. 00:57:58.236 --> 00:58:01.277 [Jeff Reed] And then I heard the Lord say, get up, Peter, kill it and eat. 00:58:01.337 --> 00:58:05.580 [Jeff Reed] No, Lord, for nothing impure or unclean has ever entered my mouth. 00:58:05.600 --> 00:58:06.482 [Jeff Reed] But the voice spoke. 00:58:07.002 --> 00:58:10.484 [Jeff Reed] From heaven a second time, do not call anything impure that God has made clean. 00:58:11.065 --> 00:58:14.669 [Jeff Reed] Three times this happened, and everything was drawn back into heaven. 00:58:15.149 --> 00:58:19.453 [Jeff Reed] Just then I saw three men sent to me from Caesarea stopped at the house where I was staying. 00:58:19.473 --> 00:58:22.156 [Jeff Reed] The Spirit told me to accompany them without hesitation. 00:58:23.036 --> 00:58:26.339 [Jeff Reed] These six brothers also went with me, and we entered the house. 00:58:26.420 --> 00:58:26.980 [Jeff Reed] He didn't go alone. 00:58:27.020 --> 00:58:27.781 [Jeff Reed] He took people with him. 00:58:28.978 --> 00:58:37.886 [Jeff Reed] he told them how he had seen an angel standing in the house saying, send a joppa for Simon, who is called Peter, convey a message. 00:58:37.926 --> 00:58:42.489 [Jeff Reed] As we began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, just that he had fallen upon us at the beginning. 00:58:42.509 --> 00:58:46.832 [Jeff Reed] Then I remember the word of the Lord, John baptized with water, but you'll be baptized with the Holy Spirit. 00:58:47.212 --> 00:58:54.978 [Jeff Reed] So if God gave them the same gifts he gave us, who believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I to hinder the work of the Lord? 00:58:57.140 --> 00:58:57.841 [Jeff Reed] Who was I? 00:58:59.574 --> 00:59:00.515 [Jeff Reed] to enter the work of the Lord. 00:59:02.498 --> 00:59:09.823 [Jeff Reed] When they heard this, they had no further objections, and they glorified God, saying, so then God has granted even the Gentiles repentance unto life. 00:59:13.828 --> 00:59:15.408 [Jeff Reed] Digital missionaries questioning calling. 00:59:16.449 --> 00:59:18.631 [Jeff Reed] Digital churches questioning structure. 00:59:22.015 --> 00:59:25.257 [Jeff Reed] Let me affirm you by reading verse 17 here. 00:59:27.591 --> 00:59:30.654 [Jeff Reed] Who am I to hinder the work of the Lord? 00:59:32.696 --> 00:59:33.698 [Jeff Reed] Look, I have no authority. 00:59:34.759 --> 00:59:38.683 [Jeff Reed] I'm in my guest bedroom now talking into a microphone. 00:59:39.064 --> 00:59:40.745 [Jeff Reed] I've had this set up for seven years. 00:59:40.785 --> 00:59:43.949 [Jeff Reed] The background's changed a little bit, but not much has changed. 00:59:45.591 --> 00:59:46.672 [Jeff Reed] I feel the same pain. 00:59:46.712 --> 00:59:48.114 [Jeff Reed] I have the same struggles and issues. 00:59:48.734 --> 00:59:50.556 [Jeff Reed] You know, where does money come from? 00:59:50.616 --> 00:59:52.337 [Jeff Reed] How am I managing all this and a job? 00:59:52.397 --> 00:59:55.839 [Jeff Reed] How is this affecting my marriage, my skills, this bi-vocational ministry? 00:59:55.859 --> 00:59:56.939 [Jeff Reed] I'm not doing this full-time. 00:59:57.379 --> 00:59:58.299 [Jeff Reed] How do I support? 00:59:58.379 --> 00:59:59.199 [Jeff Reed] How do I balance? 00:59:59.841 --> 01:00:01.841 [Jeff Reed] Everything that you are, I'm right there. 01:00:02.462 --> 01:00:03.442 [Jeff Reed] I'm right there with you. 01:00:07.165 --> 01:00:11.167 [Jeff Reed] Do not give up on the work of the Lord. 01:00:14.107 --> 01:00:17.509 [Jeff Reed] When people try to hinder you, don't let them. 01:00:19.355 --> 01:00:20.576 [Jeff Reed] Respond with humility. 01:00:21.676 --> 01:00:28.578 [Jeff Reed] Number two, also, let's be comfortable in the fact that it's going to be difficult. 01:00:29.118 --> 01:00:30.857 [Jeff Reed] It's going to be messy. 01:00:32.457 --> 01:00:36.859 [Jeff Reed] God works in that messiness, in that difficulty of the situation. 01:00:36.978 --> 01:00:41.580 [Jeff Reed] I'm not going to read Galatians 2 here, Peter at the table, but that's a third option. 01:00:41.600 --> 01:00:45.620 [Jeff Reed] You can download the deck at the church.digital slash 382 deck. 01:00:45.640 --> 01:00:48.060 [Jeff Reed] We'll get to that at a later point, but it's available for you all. 01:00:49.596 --> 01:00:55.236 [Jeff Reed] If a building is the only thing we call church, we're not going to see everybody. 01:00:56.877 --> 01:00:57.917 [Jeff Reed] This is the hesitation. 01:00:57.957 --> 01:00:58.357 [Jeff Reed] It's funny. 01:00:58.397 --> 01:00:59.178 [Jeff Reed] We had a... 01:01:00.538 --> 01:01:07.598 [Jeff Reed] The church I worked at here in Miami, there was a season where we wanted everyone in Miami to be a fully devoted follower of Christ. 01:01:10.140 --> 01:01:15.801 [Jeff Reed] Miami, I don't know how many hundreds of thousands of people live in Miami, South Florida, Dade area, but... 01:01:18.547 --> 01:01:19.571 [Jeff Reed] That was literally the mantra. 01:01:19.591 --> 01:01:22.203 [Jeff Reed] We want everyone to be a fully devoted follower of Christ in Miami. 01:01:23.676 --> 01:01:31.640 [Jeff Reed] And I love the heart of the calling, but we had five campuses, six campuses, seven campuses at the time. 01:01:32.439 --> 01:01:36.741 [Jeff Reed] You know, the largest campus, I think, housed 1,000 people, and we were doing like four or five services in there. 01:01:36.761 --> 01:01:39.283 [Jeff Reed] So that campus was seeing 4,000 people. 01:01:39.723 --> 01:01:46.085 [Jeff Reed] The other campuses, the other six campuses, I mean, let's say they were housing 3,000, you know, 300 people apiece. 01:01:46.145 --> 01:01:47.466 [Jeff Reed] I mean, let's just throw a radical number. 01:01:47.886 --> 01:01:50.406 [Jeff Reed] We were seeing 10,000, 11,000 people per service. 01:01:51.667 --> 01:01:52.768 [Jeff Reed] That's a drop in the bucket. 01:01:54.234 --> 01:01:55.497 [Jeff Reed] because of property. 01:01:55.636 --> 01:02:04.649 [Jeff Reed] Now, we can keep spending a bunch of money buying property in Miami, building these massive buildings, which there are churches that do, and there's nothing wrong with that strategy. 01:02:05.089 --> 01:02:05.971 [Jeff Reed] It's a good strategy. 01:02:06.991 --> 01:02:09.415 [Jeff Reed] I don't wanna demean the physical method. 01:02:11.017 --> 01:02:12.777 [Jeff Reed] But it does have its limitations. 01:02:12.877 --> 01:02:13.837 [Jeff Reed] It does have its benefits. 01:02:14.397 --> 01:02:19.000 [Jeff Reed] It's a whole lot easier to engage with people physically than it is digitally. 01:02:20.000 --> 01:02:22.841 [Jeff Reed] You reach a different type of person physically than it does digitally. 01:02:23.701 --> 01:02:26.261 [Jeff Reed] Discipleship can look very different physically than digitally. 01:02:27.042 --> 01:02:28.321 [Jeff Reed] A lot more differences in digital. 01:02:28.341 --> 01:02:29.982 [Jeff Reed] Digital, it can be a lot more relational. 01:02:30.922 --> 01:02:35.645 [Jeff Reed] Digital, you can get a lot of people talking, you know, very honest, very quickly. 01:02:36.585 --> 01:02:38.725 [Jeff Reed] Digital is anytime, anywhere. 01:02:38.765 --> 01:02:44.750 [Jeff Reed] You're not having to worry about, oh my gosh, it's 2 a.m., I don't have anybody to talk to. 01:02:45.410 --> 01:02:49.613 [Jeff Reed] You can find somebody on a 2 a.m. stream to talk to in a Discord. 01:02:49.672 --> 01:02:54.736 [Jeff Reed] You can connect with people in a WhatsApp group, scattered Bible studies, launching again. 01:02:55.116 --> 01:02:59.959 [Jeff Reed] Like, there are things that you can do digitally, and you are doing digitally. 01:03:01.377 --> 01:03:08.392 [Jeff Reed] Be comfortable with the fact of what you're doing, even though the world around you, the church world around you, disagrees. 01:03:10.911 --> 01:03:12.373 [Jeff Reed] I want to challenge you thirdly here. 01:03:12.453 --> 01:03:15.933 [Jeff Reed] I want you to be bold in what God is calling you to do. 01:03:17.274 --> 01:03:19.074 [Jeff Reed] Don't back off that. 01:03:20.074 --> 01:03:23.056 [Jeff Reed] This is something that I've been honest about. 01:03:23.696 --> 01:03:28.098 [Jeff Reed] I mean, a couple months ago, I was questioning whether or not to shut down the church digital overall. 01:03:28.777 --> 01:03:29.477 [Jeff Reed] I was tired. 01:03:30.138 --> 01:03:30.978 [Jeff Reed] I was frustrated. 01:03:30.998 --> 01:03:32.478 [Jeff Reed] What I... 01:03:34.339 --> 01:03:38.082 [Jeff Reed] What I had in my mind, what it was, wasn't. 01:03:38.984 --> 01:03:45.047 [Jeff Reed] But what it needed to be for the community, it could be. 01:03:46.348 --> 01:03:59.319 [Jeff Reed] And instead of me trying to push my agenda, thanks to leadership, I was able to pivot and understand more of what the church digital has become and the direction it needs to go for the future. 01:04:00.058 --> 01:04:00.538 [Jeff Reed] near future. 01:04:01.578 --> 01:04:05.339 [Jeff Reed] And so be bold with what you're doing. 01:04:06.060 --> 01:04:07.261 [Jeff Reed] I lost some of my boldness. 01:04:07.500 --> 01:04:11.823 [Jeff Reed] I still, I think there's a difference between humility and timidity. 01:04:13.984 --> 01:04:17.364 [Jeff Reed] This is really one of the first things I've done in a while that I think is bold. 01:04:18.846 --> 01:04:21.747 [Jeff Reed] We'll have to see what comes out of this. 01:04:22.288 --> 01:04:25.649 [Jeff Reed] But through your ministries, be bold with what you're doing. 01:04:26.348 --> 01:04:27.509 [Jeff Reed] But I do want to challenge you 01:04:28.846 --> 01:04:36.620 [Jeff Reed] Look at both the missiology and the ecclesiology and the Church aspects of that. 01:04:37.719 --> 01:04:41.080 [Jeff Reed] Look, we need the missiology aspects. 01:04:41.721 --> 01:04:43.142 [Jeff Reed] Look at Luke 5 here. 01:04:43.361 --> 01:04:44.181 [Jeff Reed] I love this scripture. 01:04:44.881 --> 01:04:50.143 [Jeff Reed] He also told the parable, no one tears a piece of cloth from a new garment and sews it onto an old one. 01:04:50.163 --> 01:04:55.205 [Jeff Reed] If he does, he will tear the new garment as well, and the patch from the new will not match the old. 01:04:55.605 --> 01:04:58.407 [Jeff Reed] And no one pours new wine into old wineskins. 01:04:58.787 --> 01:05:03.889 [Jeff Reed] If he does, the new wine will burst the skins, the wine will spill, and the wineskins will be ruined. 01:05:04.429 --> 01:05:07.711 [Jeff Reed] Instead, new wine is poured into new wineskins. 01:05:08.611 --> 01:05:13.532 [Jeff Reed] And no one, after drinking the old wine, wants new, for he says the old is better. 01:05:13.612 --> 01:05:16.995 [Jeff Reed] And so it's interesting that we can have a whole conversation on 39. 01:05:17.394 --> 01:05:20.596 [Jeff Reed] But the idea is that we do need some new wine. 01:05:20.617 --> 01:05:21.857 [Jeff Reed] We do need some new methods. 01:05:22.596 --> 01:05:23.398 [Jeff Reed] All about the new wine. 01:05:23.417 --> 01:05:24.518 [Jeff Reed] We do need some new methods. 01:05:25.059 --> 01:05:28.699 [Jeff Reed] And the methodology that we're doing in a missional mindset is great. 01:05:29.361 --> 01:05:29.560 [Jeff Reed] Run. 01:05:30.300 --> 01:05:30.621 [Jeff Reed] Do it. 01:05:31.161 --> 01:05:32.181 [Jeff Reed] I'm telling you right now. 01:05:32.442 --> 01:05:38.603 [Jeff Reed] Listen, I'm in Miami-Dade, which is now, I'm in Miami, you know, right here, which is now Vice City. 01:05:39.063 --> 01:05:41.144 [Jeff Reed] There's like a multi-million dollar ad campaign. 01:05:41.163 --> 01:05:45.285 [Jeff Reed] They're literally turning Miami into GTA 6 Vice City. 01:05:46.585 --> 01:05:56.808 [Jeff Reed] You know, signs and billboards and LED walls and even like the man covers, the whole manhole covers on the roads are now labeled Vice City in downtown Miami. 01:05:57.287 --> 01:05:59.169 [Jeff Reed] GTA is thriving. 01:06:01.406 --> 01:06:04.047 [Jeff Reed] I would put money on a GTA church right now. 01:06:04.127 --> 01:06:04.688 [Jeff Reed] I don't have money. 01:06:05.089 --> 01:06:05.769 [Jeff Reed] I'll find the money. 01:06:06.069 --> 01:06:09.072 [Jeff Reed] If you wanna do a GTA church, I will help you get started. 01:06:09.853 --> 01:06:12.474 [Jeff Reed] I wanna do that because we need new wine skins. 01:06:13.355 --> 01:06:22.863 [Jeff Reed] And there's a huge potential for us to reach people that would never grace the door of a physical church through crazy ideas like GTA. 01:06:24.364 --> 01:06:27.848 [Jeff Reed] Platforms, formats, schedules, languages, all of this changes. 01:06:28.167 --> 01:06:29.809 [Jeff Reed] It's interesting that we gave up on Facebook. 01:06:30.913 --> 01:06:31.474 [Jeff Reed] Give up on it. 01:06:32.475 --> 01:06:36.979 [Jeff Reed] And God bless whoever the people are that keep saying, use Facebook, use Facebook, use Facebook. 01:06:37.460 --> 01:06:39.662 [Jeff Reed] Okay, I'm using Facebook. 01:06:39.761 --> 01:06:40.143 [Jeff Reed] What is it? 01:06:40.162 --> 01:06:42.224 [Jeff Reed] Facebook.com slash thechurchdigital. 01:06:42.264 --> 01:06:43.406 [Jeff Reed] Daily devotionals are there. 01:06:43.765 --> 01:06:45.108 [Jeff Reed] We're updating it all the time. 01:06:45.587 --> 01:06:48.171 [Jeff Reed] Please interact with it and use it. 01:06:48.190 --> 01:06:48.791 [Jeff Reed] We'll go back to it. 01:06:49.171 --> 01:06:52.574 [Jeff Reed] The fact is, is that Facebook actually does carry a lot of weight internationally. 01:06:53.949 --> 01:07:01.014 [Jeff Reed] U.S., it's kind of died off, but globally it carries more weight, and so we're going back into the platform with that understanding, and so I apologize for that. 01:07:01.854 --> 01:07:12.318 [Jeff Reed] So, like, we can lose some of these systems that are around us and just recognize that we do have abilities to adapt and to mobilize, but there's some things that we cannot lose. 01:07:13.120 --> 01:07:15.461 [Jeff Reed] There's some things that we cannot lose, and that's the gospel. 01:07:16.327 --> 01:07:26.529 [Jeff Reed] Beloved, although I made every effort to write you about the salvation we share, I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once for all to the saints. 01:07:26.870 --> 01:07:29.430 [Jeff Reed] Hold true to that. 01:07:29.470 --> 01:07:30.371 [Jeff Reed] That's Jude 3 there. 01:07:30.411 --> 01:07:31.732 [Jeff Reed] Here's 2 Thessalonians. 01:07:31.751 --> 01:07:37.693 [Jeff Reed] Therefore, brothers, stand firm and cling to the traditions we taught you, whether by speech or by letter. 01:07:37.712 --> 01:07:46.054 [Jeff Reed] I mean, what they're talking about there, traditions is an interesting word there, but it's the gospel of what we're reading in Scripture. 01:07:46.934 --> 01:07:56.202 [Jeff Reed] Hold true to that scripture and recognize what is scripture and what is extra-biblical traditions. 01:07:56.282 --> 01:08:01.645 [Jeff Reed] Disruption in method, never in message. 01:08:03.487 --> 01:08:05.129 [Jeff Reed] I really do cling to this idea. 01:08:06.479 --> 01:08:07.961 [Jeff Reed] You know, I mentioned Ed Stetzer earlier. 01:08:07.980 --> 01:08:10.143 [Jeff Reed] I don't know that I've told this story too many times. 01:08:11.063 --> 01:08:12.984 [Jeff Reed] A lot of people in America know Ed Stetzer. 01:08:13.005 --> 01:08:23.294 [Jeff Reed] He's a very outspoken, famous missiologist and biblical researcher and does a lot of things, well-spoken publicly. 01:08:23.834 --> 01:08:26.897 [Jeff Reed] I worked with Ed at a church. 01:08:27.537 --> 01:08:28.639 [Jeff Reed] down here in Miami. 01:08:28.998 --> 01:08:31.723 [Jeff Reed] And I was invited right when COVID started in 2020. 01:08:32.363 --> 01:08:38.852 [Jeff Reed] I was actually invited to speak at one of Ed's conferences, a conference that Ed was very close to called... 01:08:40.790 --> 01:08:41.810 [Jeff Reed] I have no idea what it was called. 01:08:42.111 --> 01:08:43.172 [Jeff Reed] It's four-letter abbreviation. 01:08:43.193 --> 01:08:47.056 [Jeff Reed] It's like NCLF, New Church Leadership Foundation or something like that. 01:08:47.837 --> 01:08:51.602 [Jeff Reed] Well-known, it's kind of like ultra, honestly, it's like ultra-secret. 01:08:52.102 --> 01:08:55.246 [Jeff Reed] It's like not, and nobody, it's not one that everybody goes to. 01:08:55.286 --> 01:09:02.733 [Jeff Reed] It's like the top 300 global missions organizations in their C-suite crowd, the top people of each come into this thing. 01:09:03.474 --> 01:09:05.857 [Jeff Reed] And this is very, it's 2020 COVID. 01:09:05.876 --> 01:09:07.959 [Jeff Reed] To be honest, I was not a good speaker. 01:09:07.998 --> 01:09:10.220 [Jeff Reed] 2020, not very comfortable communicating publicly. 01:09:10.822 --> 01:09:12.924 [Jeff Reed] And I was invited to speak at this conference. 01:09:13.864 --> 01:09:17.629 [Jeff Reed] And so I'm sharing my stuff. 01:09:18.449 --> 01:09:24.212 [Jeff Reed] And the gentleman who was my facilitator, it's like, okay, Jeff, you're gonna have about 40 minutes. 01:09:24.834 --> 01:09:25.554 [Jeff Reed] Here's what I want you to do. 01:09:25.573 --> 01:09:27.694 [Jeff Reed] I want you to do your talk for about 20, 25 minutes. 01:09:28.456 --> 01:09:31.197 [Jeff Reed] And then at some point, I'm just gonna cut you off just towards the end. 01:09:31.256 --> 01:09:32.218 [Jeff Reed] It's okay, just trust me. 01:09:32.598 --> 01:09:34.059 [Jeff Reed] You keep talking until I cut you off. 01:09:34.618 --> 01:09:39.001 [Jeff Reed] And when I cut you off, I'm gonna go ahead and start to ask you some questions. 01:09:39.902 --> 01:09:41.023 [Jeff Reed] And so we're gonna dig into it. 01:09:41.042 --> 01:09:42.804 [Jeff Reed] Here's the questions you can prepare in advance. 01:09:43.724 --> 01:09:45.385 [Jeff Reed] And so it was great. 01:09:45.404 --> 01:09:46.425 [Jeff Reed] I was prepared and everything was good. 01:09:47.791 --> 01:09:50.153 [Jeff Reed] Well, I'm in the talk and Ed's in the room. 01:09:51.032 --> 01:09:53.653 [Jeff Reed] And Ed's like this, Ed was my facilitator's boss. 01:09:55.094 --> 01:09:55.993 [Jeff Reed] Ed knew me. 01:09:56.073 --> 01:09:58.694 [Jeff Reed] We had sat down in offices and had digital conversations. 01:09:58.854 --> 01:10:10.657 [Jeff Reed] And to be honest, like the distributed church ideas, the micro churches, the digital community churches, communities and digital churches, platforms and places, I had gone down all this with Ed. 01:10:13.290 --> 01:10:17.674 [Jeff Reed] Like a lot of the stuff we're doing right now, it's not new under the sun. 01:10:17.794 --> 01:10:22.438 [Jeff Reed] It's just hypothetical stuff that I was trying to get the church to do in 2016. 01:10:22.518 --> 01:10:26.921 [Jeff Reed] And when they wouldn't, I sped it off and did my own thing in 2018 and beyond. 01:10:27.803 --> 01:10:30.285 [Jeff Reed] And so I knew Ed was hesitant to bring me on. 01:10:30.304 --> 01:10:36.050 [Jeff Reed] I was actually surprised I was allowed to speak on this, but COVID just opened a lot of doors back then towards some of these ideas. 01:10:37.050 --> 01:10:42.294 [Jeff Reed] And so my talk went okay, and it got to the place where the questions. 01:10:42.913 --> 01:10:47.555 [Jeff Reed] And so the facilitator came on, interrupted my talk, and was like, hey, all right, I'd love to ask some questions. 01:10:48.456 --> 01:10:55.099 [Jeff Reed] And he asked me the first question, and before I could even respond, this was on a Zoom call, and Ed opens up. 01:10:55.660 --> 01:10:59.662 [Jeff Reed] He's got the microphone, and he's like, well, actually, you know, Jeff and I go way back. 01:10:59.982 --> 01:11:00.541 [Jeff Reed] I know Jeff. 01:11:01.282 --> 01:11:03.483 [Jeff Reed] I would love to, like... 01:11:04.563 --> 01:11:05.264 [Jeff Reed] have a conversation. 01:11:05.824 --> 01:11:07.147 [Jeff Reed] Jeff, are you okay if I lead this? 01:11:07.487 --> 01:11:09.269 [Jeff Reed] I know you and I have had a lot of these conversations. 01:11:09.288 --> 01:11:16.416 [Jeff Reed] I used to work with Jeff, but I really feel like there's a lot of things that we still need to discuss here, and I want to help us get to that. 01:11:18.818 --> 01:11:20.821 [Jeff Reed] And I was like, you know, sure, what am I going to do? 01:11:20.880 --> 01:11:21.340 [Jeff Reed] Ed Stetzer. 01:11:22.362 --> 01:11:24.202 [Jeff Reed] And God is my witness. 01:11:24.382 --> 01:11:25.224 [Jeff Reed] God is my witness. 01:11:25.903 --> 01:11:27.644 [Jeff Reed] Dude starts throwing haymakers at me. 01:11:29.026 --> 01:11:29.527 [Jeff Reed] I love Ed. 01:11:30.107 --> 01:11:31.428 [Jeff Reed] I've got his number. 01:11:32.729 --> 01:11:37.392 [Jeff Reed] But he was on the attack against digital. 01:11:37.551 --> 01:11:39.193 [Jeff Reed] And I'm in front of 200 people. 01:11:40.979 --> 01:11:43.779 [Jeff Reed] you know, C-suite crowd, COVID season. 01:11:44.599 --> 01:11:46.560 [Jeff Reed] I'm doing the only thing I know how to. 01:11:46.581 --> 01:12:01.366 [Jeff Reed] I started first to defend and deflect, thinking he's not gonna keep doing this, but he kept firing, you know, bullets, just being very aggressive on the questions, spinning them, trying to dismiss the idea of digital. 01:12:02.447 --> 01:12:06.072 [Jeff Reed] And to be honest, I'm like, I really wish I had this video because it was hilarious. 01:12:07.876 --> 01:12:09.778 [Jeff Reed] I'm swaying. 01:12:09.858 --> 01:12:13.345 [Jeff Reed] I decided, shoot, I'm not going to sit here in front of these people and take shots. 01:12:13.364 --> 01:12:14.166 [Jeff Reed] I'm going to fire back. 01:12:15.068 --> 01:12:16.988 [Jeff Reed] And so I went on the attack. 01:12:17.549 --> 01:12:22.130 [Jeff Reed] You know, Ed actually works in, used to work for Lifeway in books. 01:12:22.810 --> 01:12:39.538 [Jeff Reed] And so I actually started throwing out some like, you know, bookstore comparisons and books and digital and that and dying and Amazon and Netflix and missing the opportunity blockbuster, trying to parallel the idea, not that physical is bad, but that it's missing. 01:12:40.358 --> 01:12:43.401 [Jeff Reed] And it was so funny while this is happening. 01:12:43.821 --> 01:12:48.183 [Jeff Reed] You know, I really had the same setup I did now, like seven years ago, where the camera's here. 01:12:48.764 --> 01:12:51.005 [Jeff Reed] And right beneath, I always keep my phone when I'm streaming. 01:12:51.745 --> 01:12:56.006 [Jeff Reed] And so if text or anything pops up, I see it pop up on the phone when I'm looking at the camera. 01:12:56.468 --> 01:12:58.549 [Jeff Reed] And it's like not that disruptive. 01:12:59.089 --> 01:13:00.349 [Jeff Reed] My phone is blowing up. 01:13:01.130 --> 01:13:03.952 [Jeff Reed] from people in the audience that know me, that are encouraging me. 01:13:04.634 --> 01:13:09.337 [Jeff Reed] The facilitator is apologizing to me for Ed taking over the stream. 01:13:09.799 --> 01:13:14.643 [Jeff Reed] My boss, it was when I was with Stadia, is fielding, like, what is going on? 01:13:14.683 --> 01:13:15.403 [Jeff Reed] How is this guy? 01:13:15.483 --> 01:13:17.805 [Jeff Reed] It was massive pandemonium. 01:13:17.845 --> 01:13:18.506 [Jeff Reed] It was hilarious. 01:13:18.546 --> 01:13:19.287 [Jeff Reed] It was awesome. 01:13:19.947 --> 01:13:22.850 [Jeff Reed] I actually got texts back from people saying, man, you kicked Ed's butt. 01:13:23.791 --> 01:13:32.179 [Jeff Reed] The funniest thing, the reason I say that story is that five minutes after I hung up, the conference was still going on. 01:13:32.339 --> 01:13:34.501 [Jeff Reed] I was just like, I'm not going to stick around for the rest of the conference. 01:13:34.921 --> 01:13:36.042 [Jeff Reed] So I hung up on the Zoom call. 01:13:36.962 --> 01:13:38.203 [Jeff Reed] I get a text message from Ed. 01:13:39.425 --> 01:13:40.565 [Jeff Reed] Hey, Jeff, that was great. 01:13:40.687 --> 01:13:41.827 [Jeff Reed] Thank you for letting me do that. 01:13:42.287 --> 01:13:46.751 [Jeff Reed] Would you mind jumping on my new church leadership podcast? 01:13:46.812 --> 01:13:49.254 [Jeff Reed] And let's have that conversation for my podcast listeners. 01:13:52.634 --> 01:13:54.215 [Jeff Reed] Hey, Ed, I'd love to do it. 01:13:54.755 --> 01:13:57.377 [Jeff Reed] You're going to have to be okay with me talking about whatever I want to talk about. 01:13:58.259 --> 01:13:58.979 [Jeff Reed] Yeah, Jeff, that's great. 01:13:59.278 --> 01:14:02.081 [Jeff Reed] Whatever you want to talk about, my associate will follow up with you the details. 01:14:02.402 --> 01:14:03.822 [Jeff Reed] You can actually find that podcast. 01:14:04.183 --> 01:14:07.305 [Jeff Reed] We got stuck on virtual reality baptism. 01:14:08.687 --> 01:14:12.809 [Jeff Reed] We got stuck on that for like 20 minutes, just blowing his mind and fighting about that. 01:14:15.511 --> 01:14:18.755 [Jeff Reed] That is an example of disruption in the message. 01:14:20.260 --> 01:14:22.862 [Jeff Reed] we fought for the purpose of fighting. 01:14:23.563 --> 01:14:24.965 [Jeff Reed] And it became a show. 01:14:25.684 --> 01:14:29.108 [Jeff Reed] I mean, honestly, it wasn't that different from a WWF cage match. 01:14:29.769 --> 01:14:31.069 [Jeff Reed] Jeff Reed versus Ed Stetzer. 01:14:31.090 --> 01:14:31.751 [Jeff Reed] Who's going to win? 01:14:32.050 --> 01:14:32.692 [Jeff Reed] Ding, ding. 01:14:35.814 --> 01:14:37.756 [Jeff Reed] That's not going to change the church. 01:14:39.550 --> 01:14:41.970 [Jeff Reed] This is why I'm hesitant. 01:14:42.550 --> 01:14:43.812 [Jeff Reed] Leighton loves the conferences. 01:14:43.971 --> 01:14:45.612 [Jeff Reed] I love Leighton for loving the conferences. 01:14:45.693 --> 01:14:48.354 [Jeff Reed] I support Leighton for loving the conferences. 01:14:48.373 --> 01:14:51.215 [Jeff Reed] And you're more likely to see him at a conference than me these days. 01:14:53.397 --> 01:14:54.777 [Jeff Reed] I love the conferences. 01:14:54.857 --> 01:14:55.978 [Jeff Reed] I love the conversations. 01:14:56.098 --> 01:14:57.237 [Jeff Reed] I love the relationships. 01:14:57.337 --> 01:14:58.639 [Jeff Reed] Jason, same thing with J-Mo. 01:14:59.139 --> 01:15:00.639 [Jeff Reed] I love the investment in that space. 01:15:01.983 --> 01:15:06.366 [Jeff Reed] I truly believe disruption is not in the message. 01:15:07.145 --> 01:15:10.148 [Jeff Reed] True disruption that's gonna change the church is in the mission field. 01:15:10.828 --> 01:15:12.929 [Jeff Reed] It's in the methods of what we're doing. 01:15:13.050 --> 01:15:16.672 [Jeff Reed] It's the dirt underneath our fingernails and getting into that. 01:15:17.773 --> 01:15:18.913 [Jeff Reed] That's the challenge. 01:15:19.014 --> 01:15:19.894 [Jeff Reed] That's the space. 01:15:19.995 --> 01:15:20.774 [Jeff Reed] That's the win. 01:15:21.616 --> 01:15:25.077 [Jeff Reed] It's not in the academia world. 01:15:25.197 --> 01:15:30.602 [Jeff Reed] It's in the real world to show the examples, to tell the stories, and then push that upstream. 01:15:31.769 --> 01:15:40.055 [Jeff Reed] And so digital missionary that's fighting that fight right now, make sure that you are focused on the right fight. 01:15:41.737 --> 01:15:45.660 [Jeff Reed] The arguments can be fun. 01:15:45.880 --> 01:15:46.520 [Jeff Reed] It can be fun. 01:15:46.541 --> 01:15:48.221 [Jeff Reed] It can be frustrating. 01:15:49.183 --> 01:15:51.845 [Jeff Reed] And at least in my experience, it's unfulfilling. 01:15:53.594 --> 01:15:56.035 [Jeff Reed] Do not leave the people you reach churchless. 01:15:56.614 --> 01:16:02.058 [Jeff Reed] It was interesting, the conversation with the man that I was sharing with you, 2,000 people who knew Jesus. 01:16:03.157 --> 01:16:17.563 [Jeff Reed] I did ask him at one point, I was like, hey, who do you know, who do you know, like, once you save people to Jesus, once you bring someone to Christ in virtual reality, what do you do with them? 01:16:19.545 --> 01:16:21.185 [Jeff Reed] And he looked at me weird, and he's like, what do you mean? 01:16:21.980 --> 01:16:23.381 [Jeff Reed] Like, well, do you follow up with him? 01:16:23.402 --> 01:16:24.742 [Jeff Reed] Do you meet with him on a regular basis? 01:16:24.782 --> 01:16:26.764 [Jeff Reed] Do you get him connected to another church? 01:16:26.804 --> 01:16:30.547 [Jeff Reed] And he's like, no, I just give him Jesus. 01:16:32.769 --> 01:16:35.393 [Jeff Reed] I want to challenge you as digital missionaries, that's not the answer. 01:16:37.033 --> 01:16:46.723 [Jeff Reed] If you are not running a digital church or are connected with a digital church or physical church, you need to help people get connected in ministry. 01:16:47.684 --> 01:16:50.067 [Jeff Reed] Look at this, like Paul went back. 01:16:50.147 --> 01:16:59.872 [Jeff Reed] As he preached the gospel in the city, made many disciples, they returned to Lystra, Iconium, and Antioch, strengthening the souls of the disciples and encouraging them to continue in strength. 01:17:00.254 --> 01:17:01.854 [Jeff Reed] We must endure the hardships. 01:17:02.614 --> 01:17:04.496 [Jeff Reed] Paul didn't let people go. 01:17:05.096 --> 01:17:06.318 [Jeff Reed] He stayed with them. 01:17:06.438 --> 01:17:09.081 [Jeff Reed] Titus stayed to set things in order. 01:17:09.142 --> 01:17:17.991 [Jeff Reed] The reason I left you in Crete, Titus 1.5, was that you would set in order what was unfinished and appoint elders in every town as I directed. 01:17:18.492 --> 01:17:21.595 [Jeff Reed] Titus helped the church build a structure. 01:17:22.555 --> 01:17:29.239 [Jeff Reed] Hebrews and Acts and, you know, even 1 Peter, we've been talking about these Christians that were scattered, and Peter writes this letter and sends it. 01:17:29.279 --> 01:17:33.081 [Jeff Reed] I can never remember the name of the missionary who took it across the letters. 01:17:33.381 --> 01:17:43.827 [Jeff Reed] But you can see a trend here of where people were being dispersed through, and where people were being continually encouraged, even though they were dispersed. 01:17:44.727 --> 01:17:49.210 [Jeff Reed] as you're reaching people, make sure that they're connected in a community. 01:17:49.250 --> 01:17:52.473 [Jeff Reed] Maybe it's a church, maybe it's a community, maybe it's the church digital. 01:17:53.013 --> 01:17:56.154 [Jeff Reed] Whatever it looks like, that's what I'm encouraging you to do. 01:17:57.276 --> 01:17:57.897 [Jeff Reed] To wrap up... 01:17:58.804 --> 01:17:59.424 [Jeff Reed] It's been a long one. 01:17:59.443 --> 01:18:00.004 [Jeff Reed] It's been fun. 01:18:00.344 --> 01:18:02.764 [Jeff Reed] I've enjoyed getting this off and kind of working this out. 01:18:03.144 --> 01:18:12.306 [Jeff Reed] Thank you for letting me kind of vent and process with y'all on this stream and looking forward to seeing where this goes in the days to come. 01:18:13.388 --> 01:18:17.908 [Jeff Reed] I want to challenge us to be humble enough to listen, but bold enough to disrupt. 01:18:19.693 --> 01:18:26.657 [Jeff Reed] I believe that Jesus sent us and that Jesus is sending us to build his church. 01:18:27.979 --> 01:18:30.260 [Jeff Reed] It does not look like the church is today. 01:18:32.461 --> 01:18:36.084 [Jeff Reed] The missiology side of me says, that's okay. 01:18:37.064 --> 01:18:39.367 [Jeff Reed] We're okay doing something different. 01:18:40.506 --> 01:18:48.153 [Jeff Reed] The ecclesiology side of me says, but we can't discredit what the church community provides. 01:18:48.872 --> 01:18:49.572 [Jeff Reed] We need to provide it. 01:18:50.879 --> 01:18:56.921 [Jeff Reed] And so to the beauty, this is where working together, partnering, comes so good. 01:18:57.742 --> 01:19:05.805 [Jeff Reed] Find churches, get connected with people that don't have your skillset, that don't have your strengths, and work to become that. 01:19:05.885 --> 01:19:07.105 [Jeff Reed] Become that connection point. 01:19:07.185 --> 01:19:12.108 [Jeff Reed] Find the people, find the organizations that can help you do that. 01:19:12.468 --> 01:19:16.109 [Jeff Reed] If you've got any questions, reach out and connect. 01:19:16.170 --> 01:19:17.930 [Jeff Reed] Remember here, I love this. 01:19:18.130 --> 01:19:19.772 [Jeff Reed] He asked us to hold... 01:19:20.591 --> 01:19:20.912 [Jeff Reed] both. 01:19:21.652 --> 01:19:23.832 [Jeff Reed] Boldness without humility is noise. 01:19:25.492 --> 01:19:28.493 [Jeff Reed] Humility without boldness is comfort. 01:19:29.313 --> 01:19:36.515 [Jeff Reed] I do think that we are called to be bold, but we do need to be humble with that. 01:19:37.435 --> 01:19:42.956 [Jeff Reed] We don't just need to be noise, and you know we're being stepped out of our comfort zone. 01:19:43.907 --> 01:19:45.306 [Jeff Reed] So let's do that. 01:19:45.527 --> 01:19:50.209 [Jeff Reed] Hit me up, hit me up in Discord or in Fam, Discord or WhatsApp. 01:19:50.629 --> 01:19:52.908 [Jeff Reed] Happy to connect there or find me wherever you can. 01:19:53.470 --> 01:19:56.429 [Jeff Reed] Hey, we're gonna re-gear starting next week. 01:19:57.050 --> 01:20:03.532 [Jeff Reed] I'm not sure what the schedule is gonna look like, but we've got 382 wrapping up here today, 383 coming up soon. 01:20:03.612 --> 01:20:10.073 [Jeff Reed] So for Jeff and Jeff, cause it's been all me for almost 90 minutes. 01:20:10.514 --> 01:20:11.573 [Jeff Reed] This is Jeff with The Church Digital. 01:20:11.594 --> 01:20:13.014 [Jeff Reed] Thanks for hanging out with me. 01:20:13.694 --> 01:20:16.246 [Jeff Reed] today as we're going through these ideas. 01:20:16.769 --> 01:20:17.452 [Jeff Reed] We'll talk to you soon.