WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.740 Episode 48 of the Church Digital Podcast. Jeff Reed here once again, and I'm excited for this 00:00:05.740 --> 00:00:11.640 podcast, at least as excited as I can be, considering I am very, very sick. Yeah, it's 00:00:11.640 --> 00:00:17.160 been a rough, it feels like it's been a rough 2020, just the entire house seems to be individually 00:00:17.160 --> 00:00:21.660 getting sick one after another, after another. But I've had my stretch a little bit this week, 00:00:21.660 --> 00:00:27.420 and I've been coughing a little bit, actually a lot a bit. I may have lost a lung somewhere 00:00:27.420 --> 00:00:32.960 around this week. So if you, in fact, if you do have a spare lung, feel free to hit me up on social 00:00:32.960 --> 00:00:38.660 media, DeerFeg, I'm on all the platforms, and let me know that you have a spare lung, and we're going 00:00:38.660 --> 00:00:43.380 to figure out how to, I can get it, because I'm probably going to need it the rate that I'm going. 00:00:43.740 --> 00:00:49.380 So, but we have an awesome podcast for you. So here's where we are. We're pausing from technology, 00:00:49.380 --> 00:00:56.220 we're pausing from a Church Online talk with this podcast in particular, because, well, 00:00:56.900 --> 00:01:04.460 technology is the means to the end. It's not the end. The end in our situation is gospel. And a lot 00:01:04.460 --> 00:01:11.280 of the gospel is getting people to understand who they are in Christ. And so to have this conversation, 00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:16.440 we're going to a technology guy who's kind of being pastoral, because, hey, technology guys can be 00:01:16.440 --> 00:01:21.500 pastoral too, right? Like, that's a thing. We talk about that all the time. It's okay for a technology 00:01:21.500 --> 00:01:27.180 guy to be pastoral. So here on the podcast, we're bringing in a good friend of mine and a guy that I've 00:01:27.180 --> 00:01:34.180 enjoyed working with in the past. His name is Aaron McClung. He runs a company literally called AM. And 00:01:34.180 --> 00:01:41.400 they are a digital company. They do a lot of website design, graphic design, branding, marketing, like the 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:46.880 whole gamut. And this particular company, like I've worked with a number of church staffing, multiple 00:01:46.880 --> 00:01:52.600 projects over the years. I consider them friends. I treat them like family. And when I work with them, 00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:59.640 I treat them like a staff member. They are that closely integrated into my life and my projects. I 00:01:59.640 --> 00:02:04.540 could not imagine doing church ministry without them. And I don't, I honestly don't know that I could 00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:12.560 give a better testimony to them than that, as this podcast is not about the tech. It is all, it is all, 00:02:12.880 --> 00:02:21.300 it is all about the individual. You see, there's a thing here with the discipleship. And really, 00:02:21.300 --> 00:02:28.820 this is the core that I believe will help church online be effective. It's not the new church platform. 00:02:29.180 --> 00:02:35.500 It's not the new tool. It's not the new toy. It's not another feature. It's understanding that our job 00:02:35.500 --> 00:02:41.640 is to help people understand personal mission. And what's interesting is Aaron has really kind of 00:02:41.640 --> 00:02:49.580 figured out that even more than just church online or even church attenders, churches, organizations, 00:02:50.540 --> 00:02:57.040 businesses, like there's a lot of people out there that don't understand the why for themselves on an 00:02:57.040 --> 00:03:04.880 individual level or even the why for themselves as a business. And so Aaron, you know, who has guy who 00:03:04.880 --> 00:03:09.380 has been starting to, well, you know what, I'm not even going to tell the story because I want Aaron 00:03:09.380 --> 00:03:15.000 to. So here's what I want you to do. Listen to this podcast. We're not talking tech. We don't need to 00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:20.220 talk tech. The podcast you need to hear is the one you're about to hear right now. So you got Aaron 00:03:20.220 --> 00:03:27.580 McClung, president and CEO of AM and myself, Jeff in the church digital in a podcast episode that I am 00:03:27.580 --> 00:03:33.840 calling the why of personal mission. Okay, everybody. Here you go. Yeah. So my name is Aaron McClung. 00:03:34.560 --> 00:03:42.200 I live in Hearst, Texas, currently. I grew up in Oklahoma. I grew up going to Baptist churches and 00:03:42.200 --> 00:03:50.900 spent a lot of time in that world. And God called me and saved me from age of five at a BBS. And so 00:03:50.900 --> 00:03:56.860 ever since then, I've been just trying to follow him and in the ways that a child can all the way up 00:03:56.860 --> 00:04:02.680 through growing up and just always felt a sense that God has just called me to serve him. And I didn't 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:08.620 always know what that looked like. I didn't have the typical pastoral personality, as you'll probably 00:04:08.620 --> 00:04:15.160 find out shortly. But wasn't always the guy lighting up the room, if I could say it that way. But I 00:04:15.160 --> 00:04:20.640 always felt like really strongly that I wanted to serve the Lord. And so going through college, I 00:04:20.640 --> 00:04:27.780 decided to, there was a ability in design and graphic design and creativity. And so I felt like that was 00:04:27.780 --> 00:04:34.160 something I needed to do. And I started to look into that and realize that I was gifted in that and had 00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:41.220 ability to help people understand concepts visually that are easier said in pictures than in words 00:04:41.220 --> 00:04:47.440 sometimes. And so as I explore that, I realized that that was exactly what I was supposed to be doing 00:04:47.440 --> 00:04:52.260 and got through college and went to immediately started working at a church as a graphic designer. 00:04:52.260 --> 00:04:58.320 And so not in that long after that, I opened up my own business doing that helping ministries and 00:04:58.320 --> 00:05:05.080 churches and businesses, as well just, you know, get the message out with clarity, and creatively as 00:05:05.080 --> 00:05:08.300 possible. And so that's what we've done for now over 20 years. 00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.580 Yeah. So what year what year did you launch your the the agency? Or what year were you on staff? Kind of 00:05:13.580 --> 00:05:21.220 like, put that in context? Yeah. So in 1998, I started doing any freelance work in college for some 00:05:21.220 --> 00:05:27.200 ministries, worship leaders, things like mostly like CD covers, things like that was a lot of that 00:05:27.200 --> 00:05:33.260 like Disciple Now, curriculum covers, things like that. So yeah, and then I worked at First Baptist 00:05:33.260 --> 00:05:40.100 Ulus from 1999 to 2001 here in the DFW area. So and then started awesome. 00:05:40.900 --> 00:05:47.420 Yeah, I was doing 19 actually 2000 99 I graduated from college and right out of college I started a web 00:05:47.420 --> 00:05:52.460 design company called eBeliever. And I was actually in Fort Worth, you were on the Dallas side. So we were 00:05:52.460 --> 00:05:58.460 like literally contemporaries in the same, you know, territory. And obviously, a am you guys have been far 00:05:58.460 --> 00:06:05.340 more successful than my little business was. But it's just like those those days of web design and 00:06:05.340 --> 00:06:10.200 graphic design, man, those those were rough days. I don't know if you ever gone back like 20 years ago, 00:06:10.620 --> 00:06:17.120 kind of look back at the old work. And it was, I mean, I can remember talking to a pastor and I was my 00:06:17.120 --> 00:06:22.780 company eBeliever was doing web design for churches. And I distinctly remember this, I was talking with a 00:06:22.780 --> 00:06:28.720 pastor in Arlington, Texas. And the pastor looked at me, the year was 2000. And he's like, why would I pay 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:35.520 you money to build me a website when my 10 year old son can do it for free in Microsoft front page. 00:06:36.520 --> 00:06:41.860 And I was like, well, if you're happy with what your 10 year old son can generate in Microsoft front 00:06:41.860 --> 00:06:48.060 page, then you and I really don't need to talk. And but that was man, like, remember when like flash was 00:06:48.060 --> 00:06:53.580 cool. Like that was like that flash opening. And then you'd have to have the flash navigation. And 00:06:53.580 --> 00:06:58.880 like that was like the best thing ever. We've come a long way since then, man. 00:06:59.420 --> 00:07:03.900 Yeah, things have changed quite a bit. But the it was always fun to do the flash websites. There was 00:07:03.900 --> 00:07:09.560 just like, as a creative, it was like this open canvas that you could do all this amazing things 00:07:09.560 --> 00:07:13.080 with and you had no accountability to whether it had to work on a mobile phone or any of that kind 00:07:13.080 --> 00:07:18.300 of stuff. So things have definitely changed. But yeah, it's been yeah, it was just the only thing 00:07:18.300 --> 00:07:22.860 you had to worry about was the desktop experience. There was no mobile phones. There was nothing. It 00:07:22.860 --> 00:07:27.880 was just just give me the desktop. That was that was easy. Things have I guess have gotten a little 00:07:27.880 --> 00:07:34.480 more complicated since responsive and you know, Apple decided to boycott, you know, flash and all that 00:07:34.480 --> 00:07:40.280 fun stuff. One of the things and I love am and we were I was talking about this with with Aaron 00:07:40.280 --> 00:07:46.700 and off air like I just I've managed to really utilize this this company a lot and I've seen 00:07:46.700 --> 00:07:55.380 them come into very bad situations where websites were failing and code was crashing left and right 00:07:55.380 --> 00:08:03.140 and have really kind of depended on this company to get us out of bad situations. And so as much as I 00:08:03.140 --> 00:08:07.560 can like an endorse a company without endorsing actually, it's my podcast so I can do whatever I want. 00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:13.920 You know, I just I really love working with these guys and seeing the heart for ministry that they 00:08:13.920 --> 00:08:22.420 have beyond even just the website. It's it's more of they really have a heart for doing what's best 00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:28.240 for the ministry, the church, the experience that the least in context of me that I've ever worked 00:08:28.240 --> 00:08:32.700 with them on. And it's really it's this this heart that I wanted to bring Aaron in to really 00:08:32.700 --> 00:08:38.420 dive into it because their their companies pivoted a little bit, I guess would be the word. I don't 00:08:38.420 --> 00:08:43.400 know if pivots the right word, but there there was a there was a change in philosophy that at least 00:08:43.400 --> 00:08:48.480 that I've I've seen from the outside over the past year or so. And I really wanted Aaron just to kind 00:08:48.480 --> 00:08:55.240 of talk about this because I'm excited about how this impacts individuals and how it can help 00:08:55.240 --> 00:09:01.160 organizations and churches achieve much higher clarity. And so Aaron, man, why don't you just 00:09:01.160 --> 00:09:06.420 talk a little bit and tell us a little bit about this overflow, kind of what it is and then how you 00:09:06.420 --> 00:09:09.840 as an organization, how you got to this place where you realized you needed to pivot. 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:16.580 So we have a new we call a signature process that we call it overflow. And so the idea is that your 00:09:16.580 --> 00:09:21.560 brand or your culture, your organization should communicate your story basically out of the 00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:25.720 overflow of your heart, like Jesus was talking about, for people, it's like out of overflow of 00:09:25.720 --> 00:09:30.360 your heart, your mouth will speak, but we believe your brand will speak from that. And if you can speak 00:09:30.360 --> 00:09:36.360 from the core of why you exist, what's your call to what's your unique story, that that's going to be 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:40.160 the meaningful connection point that people are looking for. And that's how they make decisions 00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:45.340 on what they buy or buy into. And so that's, that's the general idea of it, of the backstory 00:09:45.340 --> 00:09:50.460 and the name, but what it is, it's basically a branding process starts with discovery sessions up at 00:09:50.460 --> 00:09:56.440 the front of it and really digs into the core existence of why the organization is there, whether 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.360 it's a business or a church, there's an origin story and there's, there's leaders there that chose to 00:10:01.360 --> 00:10:05.100 be there. They're leading the organization and they typically have a vision that God has called 00:10:05.100 --> 00:10:11.160 them to. And so it's, it's uncovering that it's clarifying it. It's using our agency skills, but 00:10:11.160 --> 00:10:17.280 also trying to, to get to the place where it's articulated clearly and well, and all the story 00:10:17.280 --> 00:10:22.840 that you're having as an organization, all channels, all, all, you know, every opportunity that you can 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:28.000 communicate is going through the filter of what that core purpose is. And it's, it's smarter, 00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:31.460 it's trying to be smarter than just talking about what's in house, but really the why. 00:10:31.560 --> 00:10:37.620 And so that, cause there's science behind that. There's the millennial generations changing, 00:10:37.620 --> 00:10:42.440 everything's changing about the way people buy into everything. And so they want meaning and they 00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.560 want impact. They want to know that they're buying into a story that they can put their time and their 00:10:46.560 --> 00:10:51.160 dollars into, and it's going to making lives better. And so that's the story. We've got to go in and find 00:10:51.160 --> 00:10:55.900 out what is unique about that company, that organization, and then build a story around it. And so I had to go 00:10:55.900 --> 00:11:02.860 through the same thing. So, uh, doing this agency life for over 20 years, we're on our 22nd year now, 00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:08.060 I think, um, depending on how you do the math, but that's, we, the first deck, two decades of that 00:11:08.060 --> 00:11:14.060 was just doing good work. Like that was the bar for what success was. It's like, uh, I didn't have a 00:11:14.060 --> 00:11:19.300 vision. I didn't know having this great business model plan in place. I was just trying to do good 00:11:19.300 --> 00:11:23.920 work with what brought us and be fair to our employees. To me, that was enough. That was 00:11:23.920 --> 00:11:30.180 enough to make me want to do it and, and, uh, do a good job. And, um, however, about a couple of 00:11:30.180 --> 00:11:35.000 years ago, God began to change the conversation with me to something else. And so it was like, 00:11:35.040 --> 00:11:39.060 where are we going with this? I started to see that the industry is changing. It wasn't, you know, 00:11:39.060 --> 00:11:43.980 like you said, it's always, you know, there's always some cheaper, faster way to do websites or 00:11:43.980 --> 00:11:47.780 whatever. And so it was, that may have grown us, but that wasn't clearly wasn't going to, 00:11:47.780 --> 00:11:51.340 you know, that could be the thing to take us to the next round of the next 20 years. And so 00:11:51.340 --> 00:11:56.400 I started to wonder what the answer was. And so for the first time ever, I was like, well, 00:11:56.400 --> 00:12:00.200 where is this going and what do I need to do? And I really didn't even think about asking God about 00:12:00.200 --> 00:12:06.320 it, to be honest with me, first of my whole life, but I didn't really know to take my business to him 00:12:06.320 --> 00:12:12.940 in that way. And so I always knew he was kind of watching out for me and trying to take care of me 00:12:12.940 --> 00:12:17.680 because he cares about me, but never had the kind of relationship to where I was asking specific 00:12:17.680 --> 00:12:22.000 questions and expecting him to lead me. And so that had to happen through those couple of years. 00:12:22.000 --> 00:12:27.960 And so as I, as I dug more into that, I started to realize he does have a purpose for me. He has 00:12:27.960 --> 00:12:33.880 a gift to me for a very specific thing. He does want the business to be his, and I'm just a steward of 00:12:33.880 --> 00:12:39.380 it. And that I can reach people through it. And that there's way more meaning to be shared and to 00:12:39.380 --> 00:12:44.820 be attracting our team to, and digging it. Like I said, I wasn't, I never saw myself as pastoral, 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:49.860 so I didn't really even try, honestly. But the more I dug into that, the more I realized that, 00:12:49.920 --> 00:12:54.720 no, that God wants me to help impact our staff in meaningful ways. But there was, they needed a 00:12:54.720 --> 00:13:01.100 story to connect to, for that to be meaningful. And so went through a whole bunch of that. But like I 00:13:01.100 --> 00:13:06.520 said, I had to start with me. And then once I did that, and I started, God gave me a specific vision 00:13:06.520 --> 00:13:11.520 on how to do this agency thing differently. I had to dig into how to do that. You know, months later, 00:13:11.520 --> 00:13:17.080 there's now a literal process for it. It's got a name, it's got steps. And we're doing that every 00:13:17.080 --> 00:13:22.680 day. And it's made a world of different work. So let me, let me pick in, and I don't want to get 00:13:22.680 --> 00:13:28.120 overly personal, but I'm just curious, because, you know, I get asked all the time, you know, 00:13:28.220 --> 00:13:32.600 Jeff, are you pastoral? Do you consider yourself a pastor? And I kind of, kind of just put my arms 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:36.900 up in the air and it's, I don't know, do you consider me pastoral? Like, but you're, you're 00:13:36.900 --> 00:13:41.500 a tech guy. Like what, what, how do you, how do you leverage tech with, with being pastoral? And I'm 00:13:41.500 --> 00:13:49.360 like, cause I work with tech to be pastoral with people who are in community. So I, I'm just curious 00:13:49.360 --> 00:13:54.640 because you're, you're asking and you're saying things about helping people realize, and we'll unpack more 00:13:54.640 --> 00:13:59.120 about this, but there's this tension of, you're not, you don't consider yourself pastoral. Why 00:13:59.120 --> 00:14:03.540 is it just in your personal journey? Well, it's been the thing that you're like, I don't consider 00:14:03.540 --> 00:14:05.640 myself pastoral because of this. 00:14:06.280 --> 00:14:11.120 Well, I'm highly introverted. So it's like, I'm always the quietest person in the room. I'm not 00:14:11.120 --> 00:14:15.260 usually the one to kind of lighten up the room and making everybody feel comfortable. It's like, 00:14:15.260 --> 00:14:20.420 I'm usually just trying to hide and not be noticed. And so, but here I am running a business 00:14:20.420 --> 00:14:25.680 with 20 plus employees and they're all looking to me for vision and they want to be inspired 00:14:25.680 --> 00:14:30.260 to work. And so, and they should be, and they should show up to work every day with something 00:14:30.260 --> 00:14:35.560 where they know that something, a life is being changed and they need to know how they're doing 00:14:35.560 --> 00:14:40.080 that. Cause that's what we're designed to do. We're designed to, you know, connect with 00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:44.200 others because that's what the image, the imprint of God in us is, you know, his, that's what 00:14:44.200 --> 00:14:48.760 he does. And so, um, that meaning that we're all looking for, they're, they're looking for 00:14:48.760 --> 00:14:53.080 it from their workplace. And that's, that's something that's changing, I think. And so, um, 00:14:53.080 --> 00:14:58.160 I didn't, I didn't recognize, uh, that I, I guess, you know, you go through spiritual gifts 00:14:58.160 --> 00:15:02.940 tests, you do things like that, try to figure out, you know, God, I know you've got a ministry 00:15:02.940 --> 00:15:09.580 purpose for me. Um, and, uh, I, I know the general callings of making, uh, disciples and, 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:15.660 uh, helping other people applies to me, but you know, how do I do it? And so, um, how 00:15:15.660 --> 00:15:20.200 do I do it at work? How do I shepherd this team? And I never realized that I could do 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:24.940 that. And so the more I've gotten to understand myself and do, do self-assessments, do things 00:15:24.940 --> 00:15:30.080 like that, the more, uh, tried new things, the more confident I get. And now I do realize 00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:34.080 I can impact people. And it's, uh, it's just like a different world here in our company, 00:15:34.140 --> 00:15:38.700 even just our, in our, in our company, it's just like everybody's, we now have processes 00:15:38.700 --> 00:15:43.320 where everyone in the company understands how to under what their purpose is, like literal 00:15:43.320 --> 00:15:48.840 processes. And so that's changed everything for us, helping people, you know, feel valued. 00:15:49.120 --> 00:15:55.580 So, yeah, I, I think the defining the why it was funny, you made an off comment about blaming 00:15:55.580 --> 00:15:59.700 the millennials, or maybe you just said because of the millennials, I would kind of blame them 00:15:59.700 --> 00:16:05.840 a little bit, but honestly, like for me and I'm 42 and I've had this conversation in context 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:10.320 of the podcast as well. Like it, I almost feel like I went through a midlife crisis a couple 00:16:10.320 --> 00:16:14.960 of years ago where it was, all right, so I've been doing this thing, you know, to, to your 00:16:14.960 --> 00:16:19.860 point, you were using the language, um, you're doing the work. And, and, and a couple of years 00:16:19.860 --> 00:16:24.460 ago, I really just came to this place of, why am I doing this? Like, what's the, what's 00:16:24.460 --> 00:16:29.820 the overall purpose behind this? And is the way that I'm doing it, is it, is it the most 00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:36.080 effective? Now for me, my, my, my end game, my goal was, was discipling people and helping 00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:40.420 people understand God's purpose. Uh, and, and for whatever reason, I really feel like 00:16:40.420 --> 00:16:46.520 my, my calling has been in that, in that digital scope. And so this midlife crisis that I was 00:16:46.520 --> 00:16:53.820 on made me pause and kind of evaluate, okay, do I, am I, am I called to do it this way? 00:16:53.900 --> 00:16:58.040 Is this the best way what I'm doing it? Are there other ways to make that happen? And 00:16:58.040 --> 00:17:03.640 that really started wrestling with my, my overall purpose. And as a result of that, honestly, 00:17:03.840 --> 00:17:07.520 in my track record over the past couple of years of show, God, God took me down a road 00:17:07.520 --> 00:17:12.840 that, that I didn't necessarily want to go down. And all of a sudden I'm being connected 00:17:12.840 --> 00:17:17.900 because he's in control. It's not me and my wishes that I'm getting, being connected 00:17:17.900 --> 00:17:23.620 into relationships and in purposes and, and connections that, that I've never dreamed that 00:17:23.620 --> 00:17:28.360 I would be a part of doing things for the kingdom that I never imagined even six months 00:17:28.360 --> 00:17:33.260 ago, how things have pivoted and changed so quickly. But it's amazing when, when God's 00:17:33.260 --> 00:17:39.160 in control of that. And so it's exciting to me because through your organization, through 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:44.380 AM, man, you're, you're literally helping people, you're helping organizations, you're 00:17:44.380 --> 00:17:49.420 helping churches like wrestle with some of this stuff. What, what stories are you, are you 00:17:49.420 --> 00:17:55.860 hearing? What stories are you seeing as you're helping churches wrestle with their, with their 00:17:55.860 --> 00:17:57.000 purpose, with their why? 00:17:57.060 --> 00:18:02.220 Well, it's, it's a, it's funny because we talk about the why of a church and almost all 00:18:02.220 --> 00:18:07.040 people think, well, aren't, don't all churches have the same why? Like, aren't we all on the 00:18:07.040 --> 00:18:13.120 great commission and doing those kinds of things? And so it's a great question. Um, I think 00:18:13.120 --> 00:18:18.400 I typically, or I'm like, well, do you have, I mean, why are you at that church? Like, right? 00:18:18.520 --> 00:18:23.100 What is God, what's the vision and what's the calling he's called you to? And as if we, 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:29.160 if there's not a unique calling in a, in a local body, then, um, why don't we just shut 00:18:29.160 --> 00:18:33.400 the doors and go to the one down the street? So obviously we know there's a unique thing 00:18:33.400 --> 00:18:38.420 there, but the church hasn't necessarily done a lot of work in trying to figure out what's 00:18:38.420 --> 00:18:41.900 unique about it or what, uh, what is it, what are people, and on top of that, what, what 00:18:41.900 --> 00:18:47.360 do people, why do they make decisions today and how, how has that changed? And so, um, what 00:18:47.360 --> 00:18:50.780 are, like you said, the millennial generation, the ones after that, what are they looking for 00:18:50.780 --> 00:18:54.580 and how are they making decisions? And the church has to wrestle with that, um, and make sure 00:18:54.580 --> 00:18:58.560 that their branding and marketing is telling that story well. So we are seeing that, um, we 00:18:58.560 --> 00:19:03.520 do dig into these processes and what we're finding is that they get really excited when we 00:19:03.520 --> 00:19:07.400 get into helping them uncover what that's going, what that is. It's like, it's really 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:11.380 fuzzy for churches. It's that to begin with, it's like, you know, they're skeptical maybe 00:19:11.380 --> 00:19:16.480 that there is something unique to say about them, but man, there is. And so you start to 00:19:16.480 --> 00:19:20.660 help them uncover that. It's just like, I've seen so much joy and just like clarity. It's 00:19:20.660 --> 00:19:25.880 like, ah, because a lot of times they work with consultants that, uh, you know, you might 00:19:25.880 --> 00:19:30.400 hire a consultant to help you figure out what your value statements are, your purpose statements, 00:19:30.400 --> 00:19:35.660 those kinds of things, but they're typically not creative agencies. And so the, um, I actually 00:19:35.660 --> 00:19:38.560 don't know of any other ones that are doing what we're doing, but there's not, there's 00:19:38.560 --> 00:19:43.540 not one that's can do both at the same time. And so that, that means it makes it hard for 00:19:43.540 --> 00:19:48.720 like a typical consultant. It's hard for them to visualize it and bring it to life and show 00:19:48.720 --> 00:19:53.420 a church or any organization what it looks like. They can speak into, they get to what it is, 00:19:53.480 --> 00:19:58.140 what, how do you word it maybe, um, what's important, but having a creative agency come in 00:19:58.140 --> 00:20:03.780 and just like do all of that with all the skills that we have at the same time and visualize 00:20:03.780 --> 00:20:09.200 it. And they see all of it at the same moment. It's just like eyeopening for them and encouraging 00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:12.640 and exciting. And it just infuses energy into the whole organization. 00:20:12.880 --> 00:20:17.880 Yeah. You know, I can tell you being a guy that's worked with creative agencies, being a 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:24.420 guy that has run a creative department, uh, a couple of times in a church, like I understand 00:20:24.420 --> 00:20:30.400 the, the, the joy of working with an organization that has clarity. I understand that. I don't 00:20:30.400 --> 00:20:34.700 know that I've experienced it a lot because a lot of times you don't, you don't have that 00:20:34.700 --> 00:20:41.620 clarity. Um, one of the things that I love about this story is you're taking the time, not 00:20:41.620 --> 00:20:46.980 just to create the graphics, to create the ad campaign, to create the, the, the movement 00:20:46.980 --> 00:20:51.460 that whether it works or not, I don't care, man. I'm just, I'm just, you know, cash in 00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:56.460 the, the, the invoice to check when it comes in, you're helping the organization get its 00:20:56.460 --> 00:21:04.200 ducks in a row by discovering it's, it's messaging by discovering how to be clear, uh, by, by helping 00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:10.680 it understand its why and its purpose. And from there breaking it down, uh, a lot of times, 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:16.280 honestly, uh, especially dealing with consultants and I am one that's cool. I can say this. Uh, 00:21:16.280 --> 00:21:21.360 a lot of times it's, it's, we need to solve, we need to solve the problem, but the big picture 00:21:21.360 --> 00:21:24.960 like that's, that's not, that's not in my scope. You're not, you're not paying me for 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:30.160 that. Uh, the holistic view of coming in of, of what you're doing through overflow of helping 00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:37.000 people understand their, their why helping the organization with clarity, understand what 00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:43.100 its purpose is. Now that's so much easier to market and so much more effective because you're 00:21:43.100 --> 00:21:49.020 able to do that with clarity instead of promising X and really delivering Y, which makes for, 00:21:49.020 --> 00:21:55.220 you know, unhappiness on, on the backside. Why is clarity? And we, you and I have both 00:21:55.220 --> 00:22:00.540 experienced this. Honestly, there are people with church staffs out there that have experienced 00:22:00.540 --> 00:22:05.440 this. So this isn't a hard question. We all know this. Churches often struggle with clarity. 00:22:06.100 --> 00:22:11.240 Um, the, the, the finish line is constantly moving. The target is, is constantly shifting. 00:22:11.740 --> 00:22:17.860 Um, organizations are trying its best to reach people. The, the, the goal is high reaching 00:22:17.860 --> 00:22:23.320 people for Christ. But as a result of that, it shifts, it moves on, on a regular basis as 00:22:23.320 --> 00:22:30.620 we're trying to be more effective. Why do we struggle with that clarity piece in a church 00:22:30.620 --> 00:22:36.460 environment? What's, what's the overarching issue maybe culturally that, that we need to address? 00:22:36.540 --> 00:22:40.280 Is there a common thread as you're working with churches? What are you exploring? What are you 00:22:40.280 --> 00:22:40.520 seeing? 00:22:40.880 --> 00:22:47.100 Well, well, there's the obvious kind of the busyness of the church cycle and the, the focus on keeping 00:22:47.100 --> 00:22:51.280 the machine running. And does anybody actually have time to stop and breathe and think about, 00:22:51.540 --> 00:22:56.380 is this actually working? That's rare. And so I think a lot of times when we go into a church 00:22:56.380 --> 00:23:00.680 and start asking these questions, it's like, we all get to pause at least for a day or two 00:23:00.680 --> 00:23:07.300 and sit in these questions with each other and, um, decide if, you know, what is the answer to the 00:23:07.300 --> 00:23:14.120 questions? What are we focused on? Cause there's not usually scheduled time to stop the machine for 00:23:14.120 --> 00:23:19.280 enough time to get on the same page together and remember, you know, what we're called to. And it's, 00:23:19.280 --> 00:23:26.520 that's just the pace of it, the, the, the, just the grind of it. And so, um, for us, it's, it's amazing 00:23:26.520 --> 00:23:32.660 what a few simple questions can do to bring clarity for an entire organization. And so it has to start 00:23:32.660 --> 00:23:38.720 at the top. The, the, the leadership has to be on board that I can't push this, this rock upstream. I 00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:43.520 don't think that's really how this is designed. So that's why it's critical that we get buy-in from the 00:23:43.520 --> 00:23:47.920 top of the organization because we need them to, we, we don't know how long we're going to be 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:53.200 involved, right? We have to know, we have to give tools and give clarity and ability to articulate, 00:23:53.200 --> 00:23:59.580 but it has to be from the pulpit to the email, to everything. And in between of every channel, 00:23:59.580 --> 00:24:04.220 it's got to be lined up if it's going to work the way we want in that, uh, the clarity is all about 00:24:04.220 --> 00:24:10.780 focus. Like if you can get your purpose figured out and you can get your why cleaned up, then it's all, 00:24:10.840 --> 00:24:15.380 it's like providing you a filter for staying, you know, keeping from getting distracted all the time 00:24:15.380 --> 00:24:19.700 with all this stuff. And so if you can't, if you can define that and say, okay, this is why, 00:24:19.780 --> 00:24:23.840 why we're here. This is what this church is called to. This is maybe our three-year plan or one-year 00:24:23.840 --> 00:24:29.420 plan, whatever. Um, and this is how we're going to get there. Then it should bring like the ability 00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:33.320 to say no to a lot of things. I've seen a lot of people struggle with that. Like they don't, 00:24:33.460 --> 00:24:38.500 yeah, don't have anything to say, you know, no to this. And because it's, you know, it's scary to say, 00:24:38.600 --> 00:24:44.000 you know, in a place where you're, everybody's kind of looking to you to be like, you know, to serve 00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:49.800 them. And so, um, that's a lot of tension in that statement, but, uh, uh, we've seen those 00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:55.160 conversations, the processes, just getting everybody in the room together at this right time. Um, God 00:24:55.160 --> 00:25:00.720 can show up and, um, get some things off their chest that they just haven't had the ability to do. 00:25:01.060 --> 00:25:08.880 So, yeah, it is, it is hard organizationally to say no, you know, especially the, the cause is great 00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:14.260 to the, to the, to the Romans. I'm a Roman, to the Jew, the Jew, to a Greek, I'm a Greek. And so we 00:25:14.260 --> 00:25:21.720 have that. Um, but, but the larger purpose is, is that if we're everything to everyone, then from a 00:25:21.720 --> 00:25:27.560 messaging standpoint, we're really nothing to no one, you know, and, and we, we lose the overarching 00:25:27.560 --> 00:25:34.400 purpose of the organization. And somehow by simplifying it down, uh, we find that we're 00:25:34.400 --> 00:25:40.820 more organizationally structured. There's clearer purpose behind it. We're more structured towards 00:25:40.820 --> 00:25:47.200 achieving that goal. But what's interesting is when we play, when an individual church plays its part, 00:25:47.740 --> 00:25:54.860 what it really does, I believe is it opens up for other churches to play their part rather than, 00:25:54.860 --> 00:26:02.180 Hey, you know, I live in Miami, arguably Miami has 98% lostness. Um, like their stats are, 00:26:02.380 --> 00:26:08.800 even if you were to assume the best stat, it's still like 85% lossless. Like it's, it's crazy. Um, 00:26:09.040 --> 00:26:14.680 how, how little church has a purpose here. And for any one organization to say, I want to be a part of 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:20.500 reaching the millions of people, like I'm going to tackle it all. It's ridiculous. There's no way to, 00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:26.780 we have to organizationally work together towards doing that. And churches often struggle with that 00:26:26.780 --> 00:26:33.320 because of, for whatever reason, they want to own the larger piece instead of realizing that 00:26:33.320 --> 00:26:40.860 maybe it's more effective for us to own a smaller piece of that. One of the things that, that, that you, 00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:46.780 you stated on your website, and I really want to unpack this because you are, um, a self-diagnosed 00:26:46.780 --> 00:26:51.100 introvert. I am a self-diagnosed introvert as well. People are like, well, Jeff, you're so 00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:56.180 extroverted. No, no. My extrovertedness is my defense mechanism that covers up how actually 00:26:56.180 --> 00:27:01.360 introverted I am. And even having conversations like this on the, on zoom are just exploding 00:27:01.360 --> 00:27:07.340 my brain right now. So, but you said something, um, on the website that, that I want to, I want to, 00:27:07.340 --> 00:27:12.720 I'll get your take on this. Cause this is good. His business is relationships. His being God, 00:27:12.720 --> 00:27:20.740 God's business is relationships. God is after a relationship. How does that imply and fit in to 00:27:20.740 --> 00:27:27.340 like what you're doing through overflow? How does that relationship component come into play at 2020? 00:27:28.600 --> 00:27:36.120 Well, that's typically a conversation I'm having with business owners. Um, they, they tend to think 00:27:36.120 --> 00:27:43.220 of their business as a separate thing from their faith. And so my, my desire to tell that to them, 00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:48.280 and this would apply to church leaders as well, but the idea is that it's not your business, right? 00:27:48.280 --> 00:27:52.280 It's God's. And just like, just like you have to get saved, your business sometimes kind of have to 00:27:52.280 --> 00:27:57.140 get saved too. And so give it to him, let him run it. Just like your life, all the stuff we hear in 00:27:57.140 --> 00:28:02.200 sermons about transferring ownership of who we are and what our dreams are applies to business leaders 00:28:02.200 --> 00:28:06.940 too. And applies to their business. And so if you let God run your business, then he, it's about him. 00:28:07.020 --> 00:28:12.960 It's his vision and his vision. We know it's going to be about other people. And so his business is 00:28:12.960 --> 00:28:17.960 relationships. That's like, that's the, the, you know, the business he's building is the kingdom. 00:28:17.960 --> 00:28:22.740 And so, uh, to use your business, uh, if it's going, if you're going to give it to him, 00:28:22.740 --> 00:28:27.700 then your business then becomes all about relationships too. And so, um, most business owners 00:28:27.700 --> 00:28:33.560 are trying to survive. They're trying to get the bottom line built up. Um, I guess you could argue 00:28:33.560 --> 00:28:40.840 that the churches maybe are, are focused on outcomes as well. But, uh, basically if you're 00:28:40.840 --> 00:28:44.000 going to give your business to him and let him run it, then it's going to, you're going to have to 00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:50.080 remember that, uh, the, the thing you're growing is other people. And so how do you do that through 00:28:50.080 --> 00:28:51.980 your business? So that's, that's the idea there. 00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:57.640 So, you know, I'm listening to the guys, EO fire, um, Gary Vaynerchuk. I'm listening to some 00:28:57.640 --> 00:29:03.440 of these business guys and they, from a digital standpoint, they challenge me. And sometimes, 00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:10.440 honestly, I look outside of the church world to be challenged, um, to find some digital guidance 00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:15.880 and direction of what the future is. And it's interesting me to kind of filter that, um, through, 00:29:16.020 --> 00:29:21.140 uh, through a spiritual lens, but, but you're asking secular businesses, you're asking business 00:29:21.140 --> 00:29:27.700 owners to really like release the, the business to God. And so like, let's, let's just be very 00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:32.360 practical at that point because somebody out there is like, wait, what you want me to do 00:29:32.360 --> 00:29:38.160 what with my business? That's, that's, that's separate from my one hour on Sunday when I attend 00:29:38.160 --> 00:29:46.500 church over here. So explain to me what it is and why I should give up my business, my, my workplace, 00:29:47.200 --> 00:29:50.780 why, why that's God's business. What, what does that even look like? 00:29:50.780 --> 00:29:54.300 I can tell you practically what it, what it looks like for me and how we talk about it with our 00:29:54.300 --> 00:29:59.300 business owners. So, um, like I said earlier, like I ran the business for 20 years separately in my 00:29:59.300 --> 00:30:03.680 head, trying to be obedient to general things, the general callings of God through some mentoring 00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:09.200 and some discipleship in this area by other Christian business leaders. They kind of enlightened 00:30:09.200 --> 00:30:13.300 me of what, that the Bible has much to say about business. It has much to say about running a business. 00:30:13.460 --> 00:30:18.980 Where does vision come from? What does God want for, for my life? Well, if my life is mostly spent at 00:30:18.980 --> 00:30:25.140 work time-wise, math-wise, um, then that's got to line up too, right? Uh, then this idea of that he 00:30:25.140 --> 00:30:31.120 can run it better than I can. Cause I, again, I spent 20 years, um, doing well and probably too 00:30:31.120 --> 00:30:36.320 comfortable staying where I was and then trying to figure out what's next. I needed, I needed, I don't 00:30:36.320 --> 00:30:41.100 have this entrepreneurial thing that I see in a lot of business owners. And so I need like God to say 00:30:41.100 --> 00:30:48.000 what's next. And so if I start, if I believe that he cares about me and this business is, is just a 00:30:48.000 --> 00:30:52.740 vehicle for our relationship, that's what changed my perspective. It's like, he wants to guide me and 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:59.160 he knows my heart is in the business and my time. And it says, you know, where our treasure is, which 00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:03.680 where our heart is. And so if he wants to reach me, it's probably going to likely be through the 00:31:03.680 --> 00:31:10.280 business. And so why not, why not trust him with it and to let him lead it. And then I start to do 00:31:10.280 --> 00:31:15.000 that. And I started asking specific questions that I never asked before. I practically like, okay, 00:31:15.040 --> 00:31:19.080 God, what is the vision for my business? Is it a, is it yours? Have I, have we made that clear? 00:31:19.080 --> 00:31:24.080 Are we good? You know, if we, have I turned this over to you and you start to pray through that and 00:31:24.080 --> 00:31:27.920 you, you know, God begins to speak because God is always speaking. You look for confirmations 00:31:27.920 --> 00:31:32.940 through scripture, through others, uh, through the Holy spirit. You're, you're asking God specific 00:31:32.940 --> 00:31:38.200 questions like, God, what's the vision? Okay. I'm waiting. And then I'm getting answers. And so, 00:31:38.200 --> 00:31:42.860 um, and you get more confident the more you do that. And before you know, you're asking God, 00:31:42.860 --> 00:31:47.120 should I hire this person? Should I take this step? Is this what you want the business to do? 00:31:47.120 --> 00:31:50.140 Is this how you want to use this money? If it's your business, I'm stewarding it and I 00:31:50.140 --> 00:31:54.720 must hear from you. And so before I know it, my dependence on God and my relationship with 00:31:54.720 --> 00:32:00.660 him is so different and so improved. Um, and it's like night and day from the first 20 years. 00:32:00.660 --> 00:32:06.160 And so it's just like, and it's working because apparently God knows what's going on. And so 00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:10.060 that's the crazy practical side of, there's a spiritual side, there's a tactical side, but they 00:32:10.060 --> 00:32:16.520 are both, they chase to the father as well. They are as much as I can, uh, give him leadership 00:32:16.520 --> 00:32:21.500 and ownership of the business. Then I haven't, I've just been blown away by it. And my relationship 00:32:21.500 --> 00:32:26.740 with him is truly that walking in the cool of the day kind of thing that he, he was after 00:32:26.740 --> 00:32:31.800 the whole time. And so I pulled up a stat as you were talking, and this is something, this 00:32:31.800 --> 00:32:37.500 is Lifeway research. This is 2019. This is last year. They ran a research. We'll link to 00:32:37.500 --> 00:32:43.420 it in the show notes. So you guys have, have it. 51% of people, um, who are Christians, spiritual 00:32:43.420 --> 00:32:48.420 matters do not tend to come up as a normal part of my daily conversations with other 00:32:48.420 --> 00:32:57.680 Christians. So the majority of people, it's 51%. Um, it's not, it's not existing one out 00:32:57.680 --> 00:33:01.680 at one out of two. That's not even like, you know, to the point of I'm willing to give up 00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:06.080 my business. It's almost to the level of, yeah, like I'm not even talking about God outside 00:33:06.080 --> 00:33:11.600 of the one hour on Sunday. And so like what you're describing is, is really going to be 00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:17.120 a foreign concept to people where, uh, you know, there, there, there's this, uh, I'm presenting, 00:33:17.280 --> 00:33:23.400 you know, people define worship as the literal 20 minute block of musical noise that comes off 00:33:23.400 --> 00:33:28.300 of the stage for that one hour on Sunday. Scripture tells us that we're present our bodies as a 00:33:28.300 --> 00:33:34.100 living sacrifice, holy and cleansing to God. This is our spiritual act of worship. And it's, and it's 00:33:34.100 --> 00:33:40.080 more than just, you know, the, the low rumblings of that bass guitar coming through the subs, which is 00:33:40.080 --> 00:33:46.200 so glorious to hear, but it's really more of who we are as a Christian and what our life entails 00:33:46.200 --> 00:33:52.100 entirely. And so you're dropping this knowledge on some people and it's probably, you know, exploding 00:33:52.100 --> 00:33:56.900 some brains a little bit, uh, which is awesome. I, I, you know, I loved a little emoji of the exploding 00:33:56.900 --> 00:34:04.660 head guy. What are people's responses when you, when you talk through this, are they appreciative? 00:34:04.920 --> 00:34:10.580 Are they pushing away? Like what's the range of emotions people are hearing as, as you're kind of 00:34:10.580 --> 00:34:16.760 coaching them through this idea of, of giving of their, of their business, of all they are to God and 00:34:16.760 --> 00:34:20.820 letting God be central of, of their, their work, their home, their family, everything. 00:34:21.560 --> 00:34:26.720 Well, obviously Christian business leaders are the ones that are mostly being challenged with 00:34:26.720 --> 00:34:30.320 this. Like if you're, if you're on that, you're not on the, you know, if you're not in a relationship 00:34:30.320 --> 00:34:33.620 with Christ, you're just going to be like bouncing that off. But the ones that are Christian and 00:34:33.620 --> 00:34:36.900 they're hearing it, they're being like, they're kind of blown away because they've never heard 00:34:36.900 --> 00:34:41.900 anybody put that together like that. Like, cause I'm, I'm a, uh, I'm a teacher. I'm a learner. 00:34:41.900 --> 00:34:45.820 Right. And so I don't come with just fuzzy stuff. I've got a framework and I put it in an order 00:34:45.820 --> 00:34:50.880 and I show it to them and say, yes, here's your relationship with God. And I walk it through. 00:34:51.020 --> 00:34:57.020 It's from vision to, uh, your wine, your purpose and your, your mission statement and, uh, your 00:34:57.020 --> 00:34:59.760 execution and how you're going to get there and how you're going to achieve that vision 00:34:59.760 --> 00:35:03.420 and then how you're going to engage and empower your team to get there. So it's a framework that 00:35:03.420 --> 00:35:09.560 I'm putting in front of a very, uh, technical and, uh, built off of similar business thinking 00:35:09.560 --> 00:35:14.860 models, right? Business operational models, but just putting God at the beginning of it and 00:35:14.860 --> 00:35:18.600 saying, this is actually all about him. And so when I walk them through it, it makes total sense to them. 00:35:18.600 --> 00:35:23.900 And they've never seen it laid out that way. And then we start talking about overflow specifically 00:35:23.900 --> 00:35:27.360 is just a little piece of that. Right. And so we're actually trying to create an entire culture 00:35:27.360 --> 00:35:32.200 around this purpose that's in you. Um, and when you do that, you're actually building a purpose 00:35:32.200 --> 00:35:36.580 around God because he's the one that put the purpose there. And so, um, to what degree they 00:35:36.580 --> 00:35:41.600 want to share that or lead that story from a gospel standpoint, or it's kind of up to them. 00:35:41.600 --> 00:35:46.900 Um, they're usually their reaction is, wow. I never knew that there was a logical linear flow 00:35:46.900 --> 00:35:52.360 to understand this. And so it kind of makes sense to them because business owners want actionable, 00:35:52.360 --> 00:35:58.700 tactical steps to follow. Um, and so, you know, make it easy for me. And so having those conversations 00:35:58.700 --> 00:36:04.360 a lot, that's where my, my gifting comes. That's like the clarity and creativity combining. It's kind 00:36:04.360 --> 00:36:08.600 of coming up with this kind of unique flavor to it. It's just stuff I've done myself. It's just, 00:36:08.600 --> 00:36:13.060 I've gone, God gives me what I need and then I'm sharing it with other people. So, uh, but that 00:36:13.060 --> 00:36:17.560 rate, the response has been great. Yeah. I'm, I'm literally sitting here trying to think of the next 00:36:17.560 --> 00:36:26.220 question. And my question was going to be, okay, so I own a shake shack. What is giving God my shake 00:36:26.220 --> 00:36:30.760 shack? What is that actually gonna, gonna look like? What, how is that going to affect my business? 00:36:30.760 --> 00:36:34.480 And as I'm sitting here waiting for you to finish, and I was going to ask the question, 00:36:34.480 --> 00:36:40.520 the first thing that pops in my head is Chick-fil-A and how that, that is, as a business, 00:36:40.520 --> 00:36:45.000 like how is, how does, you know, giving God my business, how does that affect my messaging? 00:36:45.360 --> 00:36:49.980 How does that affect who I am? How does that affect my culture? And, and, and arguably there's 00:36:49.980 --> 00:36:54.320 others, and I'd love to hear some other examples, but, you know, Chick-fil-A as an organization, 00:36:54.320 --> 00:37:00.140 um, has been very vocal in standing up for, you know, who they are and, and who they are not. 00:37:00.500 --> 00:37:06.700 And as, and as diverse as they are, man, it's good chicken, man, that place is, is always busy. 00:37:07.060 --> 00:37:12.260 And they've managed to stay in good favor, still holding to their, to the morals and ethics 00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:17.500 of, of what, you know, that, that family has instilled years ago. What are some other examples? 00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:20.220 Shake Shack's a bad example, but, but what else you got? 00:37:20.220 --> 00:37:25.060 Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll give you some of our client examples. So there's one client that's an egg roll 00:37:25.060 --> 00:37:31.140 manufacturer, a based company. They, it's a second generation, 30 year old plus egg roll manufacturer 00:37:31.140 --> 00:37:36.460 here in DFW. We have these conversations like, okay, let's figure out why, why you do this. And so we dig 00:37:36.460 --> 00:37:42.160 into that. And at the end of it, it's basically, we've got to come up with the taglines and the stuff 00:37:42.160 --> 00:37:46.800 you're talking about messaging that drives this story home. And so, um, we dug into it and said, 00:37:46.800 --> 00:37:50.760 okay, what is meaningful? It's happening here. Well, it's, it's an immigrant family that came 00:37:50.760 --> 00:37:55.160 over from Vietnam with nothing back in the sixties, running from all kinds of terrible things in that 00:37:55.160 --> 00:38:00.660 country. They come to the U S with nothing, chasing the American dream. The mom of the couple is 00:38:00.660 --> 00:38:06.560 basically trying to figure out how to, to run the company with, uh, and she's basically got $40 in 00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:11.680 her pocket and she got this crazy story of how she's landed here and how to get, uh, her family and 00:38:11.680 --> 00:38:16.040 going and surviving in this country. And so these are the people that started this and they're 00:38:16.040 --> 00:38:21.920 Christians. And so now it's, uh, 30 years later, this, the daughter is now the CEO of the company. 00:38:22.500 --> 00:38:28.080 And, um, we basically have a minority owned faith-based women led company. And so you can 00:38:28.080 --> 00:38:32.480 see, I'm already got things that are starting to pop of what I can drive a meaningful story around. 00:38:32.940 --> 00:38:39.380 Sure. Um, from there, long story short, um, the tagline has gone from things like, uh, 00:38:39.800 --> 00:38:44.960 you know, I'll just, you know, just more generic things around, you know, honest food and things like 00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:50.500 that, making, you know, quality products to our new tagline is made to love. And so I've been, 00:38:50.580 --> 00:38:55.340 you know, the, the people, we care about our people, we care about our customers and we feel 00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:59.980 like, you know, they are made. Those are, those are words that are Christians can identify with 00:38:59.980 --> 00:39:05.100 those words that someone is made to love and that the food is made to love. And so we now have this 00:39:05.100 --> 00:39:10.900 conversation changing, starting piece for all communications. And they can tell a, you know, 00:39:10.900 --> 00:39:17.520 10 second, you know, simple surface level story about their, where the quality of their girls and how our 00:39:17.520 --> 00:39:22.620 people are made to love. And, um, we want our food to be as well. And, or you can go really deep into 00:39:22.620 --> 00:39:27.540 the culture of, you know, how they hire people and how they attract people and, um, how they honor 00:39:27.540 --> 00:39:33.320 people, um, in that same tagline. And so it's like, that's the kind of thing I want. I want to give 00:39:33.320 --> 00:39:39.060 everybody a meaningful conversation starter. And then we build a beautiful brand around it visually, 00:39:39.060 --> 00:39:44.160 uh, all the creative assets. And so the entire organization now has these conversations the same 00:39:44.160 --> 00:39:49.280 way now. And they're all, the starting points are the same. It's super consistent. Uh, it's just like 00:39:49.280 --> 00:39:54.480 the ownership, they have exactly what they need to tell their story in any context. And it's, 00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:58.680 it's working, attracting people to the organization in every way. So how do people 00:39:58.680 --> 00:40:02.200 and organizations, how do they, how do they work with you? What's the process to get started? 00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:06.800 Um, well, the beginning conversation would be making sure there's a fit there. Like, uh, 00:40:06.800 --> 00:40:10.660 where are you at? What do you, what do you, do you have a conversation that you're trying to change? 00:40:11.060 --> 00:40:16.420 Uh, typically people come in, uh, with the pain point, right? And so, you know, are we willing to go to 00:40:16.420 --> 00:40:21.760 this brand story and revamp it and then reply it to all the channels? And so, uh, to get started, 00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:25.240 it's having an honest conversation about where you are, what you're, what can we affect? What can 00:40:25.240 --> 00:40:30.160 we impact? And then deciding if overflow is the right choice for you. Um, sometimes we need to go 00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:34.580 deeper. And so it might be, well, I don't know what my purpose is. I don't know where I start and I'm 00:40:34.580 --> 00:40:39.320 a leader. We might have to have some conversations around a purpose discovery process where we help you 00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:43.860 figure that out. And then we just start applying it to the company and help you, uh, you know, build from 00:40:43.860 --> 00:40:47.360 there. And so it's, there's a couple of different starting places, uh, typical starting places 00:40:47.360 --> 00:40:52.560 overflow. And we work on that and that scope and then decide once we've built it, how far do we 00:40:52.560 --> 00:40:57.120 want to take it right now and keep going from there? What's the, and so we've talked about 00:40:57.120 --> 00:41:02.420 businesses. We've, we've talked about churches. I mean, I really feel like even if you take the 00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:07.200 business out of this, if you, even if you take like the, the, the church out of this, I feel like 00:41:07.200 --> 00:41:12.620 there's a challenge for the, for the individual where there's an opportunity, I mean, baked 00:41:12.620 --> 00:41:16.560 in a little bit of this and I don't want to like overstate, but there's like a, there's 00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:22.000 like a discipleship. There's like a personal mission kind of challenge in this where, where 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:29.140 we as individuals really need to, as, as individual Christians today, we need to wrestle with some 00:41:29.140 --> 00:41:34.300 of the, some of the why on this and maybe recognizing, uh, some of what the personal 00:41:34.300 --> 00:41:40.060 mission of our life is and why God's has us where we are in our workplace, maybe not as the boss, 00:41:40.060 --> 00:41:45.760 but maybe as a, just a general worker, why God has us in our, in our community, in the home that we 00:41:45.760 --> 00:41:51.720 live or why God has us with our kids involved in the stuff that they're involved in. Like how can 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:56.980 you, mate, do you ever wrestle with this? Like how does this overflow maybe apply down to an individual 00:41:56.980 --> 00:42:00.800 level? We start with that conversation a lot. So we, like I said, we have a, we have a purpose 00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.520 discovery process that all of our team goes through and you dig into your spiritual gifts, your 00:42:05.520 --> 00:42:10.880 personality profile, um, your strengths in general areas. Like what, what, you know, why do you, you know, 00:42:11.200 --> 00:42:16.400 what do people say you're great at? And cause we're trying to show them that God is putting exactly 00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:21.140 in them what he wants them to do with their lives. And so most people, most people don't even know what 00:42:21.140 --> 00:42:25.460 their purpose is. I, there's a stat that says only 10% of people know what their purpose is, 00:42:25.460 --> 00:42:30.640 which is, it's way too valuable to be sitting there dormant. And it's way too much focus and 00:42:30.640 --> 00:42:34.560 clarity to know what your lane is like, God, you created me to do this thing. And so when Jeff 00:42:34.560 --> 00:42:40.620 needs something and it's mine, I'm up, you know, do I recognize the skills and gifts he's called me 00:42:40.620 --> 00:42:45.180 to? And am I operating in that when I see your need? Cause that's going to show me that what God is 00:42:45.180 --> 00:42:49.420 asking me to do. And I'm going to see the biggest fruit in you when I do that, instead of trying to be 00:42:49.420 --> 00:42:55.200 somebody I'm not, if I can be aware of myself more, then it's going to, it can change lives. 00:42:55.200 --> 00:43:02.200 And it's, it's putting confidence in people that they never, they never had. And so when people 00:43:02.200 --> 00:43:06.680 know themselves and they know what God is calling them to, it's just like, it resonates so much 00:43:06.680 --> 00:43:12.880 stronger and deeply when you operate in it. And sadly, most people just have no awareness of any of 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.240 that. That's what we're about with individuals for sure. 00:43:15.240 --> 00:43:21.780 It's, it's so important. And I literally had coffee this week, uh, with someone who's wrestling with 00:43:21.780 --> 00:43:27.540 this. This is a person who's been on staff for a number of years, a church staff. And, um, I've 00:43:27.540 --> 00:43:31.800 literally brought up the calling piece and they were like, you know, I'm not, I'm not sure what I'm 00:43:31.800 --> 00:43:38.100 called to. And, and, and, and it's this, this gross reality of, and it gross isn't even the right 00:43:38.100 --> 00:43:44.540 word, but it's, it's the stark reality of, of people that, that are living lives without realizing what 00:43:44.540 --> 00:43:50.520 God has them for. And maybe they haven't understood it at a personal level to achieve their, their own 00:43:50.520 --> 00:43:55.540 clarity, or they're so busy, you know, to your point, organizations are often so busy. They don't 00:43:55.540 --> 00:44:01.460 have time to ask the wise. Maybe they're so busy, busy living out the lives and the identities that 00:44:01.460 --> 00:44:06.620 they've kind of stumbled into on their own to put money on the table, food on the table, um, and things 00:44:06.620 --> 00:44:11.220 like that without stopping and realizing, wait, what does God have for me in that situation? 00:44:11.380 --> 00:44:17.460 And oftentimes to do that, to have, you know, God be head of your, your organization and have that be 00:44:17.460 --> 00:44:23.800 the wire to have God be head of, of yourself. Like there, there's a humility in that where you have 00:44:23.800 --> 00:44:29.880 to release control. When we look at the Beatitudes, um, blessed is, are the meek or the poor in spirit, 00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:35.980 are they that mourn, um, you know, Matthew four and five, it's not a overly controlling, 00:44:36.140 --> 00:44:42.860 demanding power type a person that that's, that's blessed in those situations. It's blessed are the 00:44:42.860 --> 00:44:48.440 people who are humble, arguably who are teachable by God and shapeable by the, the path of the spirit 00:44:48.440 --> 00:44:54.420 who are in tune to, to where he's leading. And that's dripping all over this. The ability to 00:44:54.420 --> 00:45:02.740 stop and to ask the organization, why do you exist? Allows God the opportunity to drive instead of you 00:45:02.740 --> 00:45:09.740 forcing will upon that situation. And, and whether, you know, I, I said this, uh, once in a blog, if, 00:45:09.740 --> 00:45:15.900 if, if, if you are responsible for your victories in life, then you're responsible for the losses. 00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:22.180 And so every, when you get, Hey, good for you, but the failures are all over you. Um, if the, if you, 00:45:22.300 --> 00:45:27.820 if you're not responsible for the victories, if you allow God to own the victory, then God owns the 00:45:27.820 --> 00:45:33.120 failure, uh, because he's driving through that and allowing you to grow through that process. 00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:39.360 I would much rather give God the victories and allow God to cover my, uh, my failures than for 00:45:39.360 --> 00:45:45.280 me to be solely responsible for that. Giving God control is, is so much clearer. And, and Aaron, 00:45:45.280 --> 00:45:52.800 I love your, your, your path and even just the courage to organizationally pivot 20 years into 00:45:52.800 --> 00:46:00.080 developing an agency and realizing, Hey, I'm, we're asking the wrong question. And they're not ready 00:46:00.080 --> 00:46:05.920 to answer the question. What's best for the, for themselves. We need to change the organization 00:46:05.920 --> 00:46:12.960 away from just a creative agency to an agency that's helping organizations answer the questions 00:46:12.960 --> 00:46:16.720 they really should answer. And then once it's answered, then yeah, we can definitely be the 00:46:16.720 --> 00:46:22.240 creative aspect, but there's so much value in what you're doing beyond just that ad campaign or that 00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:28.800 website or that social media look. So, man, thank you for your, your diligence and your patience. 00:46:29.280 --> 00:46:35.360 Um, with that, cause I'm sure that's a hard thing to get a 20 year organization to kind of 00:46:35.360 --> 00:46:42.480 turn like that, but it's awesome to see how God is using you in this process. So man, as we're landing 00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:47.440 the plane, any last thoughts? No, I appreciate your time. It's your, you're definitely hitting on some of 00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:52.960 the, the high points and the, it's reminding me of some of the, just the challenges it's been to get 00:46:52.960 --> 00:46:57.920 there. And it's, it takes a lot of faith and vulnerability and courage and just willingness to 00:46:58.560 --> 00:47:03.520 uh, do things that you're not, I'm not like, I've done so many things in the last two years that I'm 00:47:03.520 --> 00:47:08.400 was never comfortable or never thought I was capable of. Um, but it's been completely 00:47:09.200 --> 00:47:13.360 praying through it, asking God to, you know, I'm going to trust you that I know you're bringing these 00:47:13.360 --> 00:47:18.640 opportunities. Um, and I think this is going to work. And then you start to build on it and it keeps 00:47:18.640 --> 00:47:23.440 working and it's like, yes, this is God and is working and changing lives. And I'm just excited 00:47:23.440 --> 00:47:28.560 to be part of it at this point. So the thing I love about this entirely is that you are, you have 00:47:28.560 --> 00:47:34.800 literally put yourself through the same test and you've redefined yourself through this, why that 00:47:34.800 --> 00:47:40.080 you are asking other people to go through and you yourselves are a living testimony of, of, of how 00:47:40.080 --> 00:47:45.120 you've gone through this process. So man, thank you for being just diligent and faithful in that. 00:47:45.120 --> 00:47:50.720 And, uh, we're going to be looking excitedly to see how God continues to do things through 00:47:51.280 --> 00:47:56.480 AM agency. So, hey, uh, we're going to wrap right here. This has been a great podcast. Looking 00:47:56.480 --> 00:48:01.200 forward to what's next, uh, for Aaron. Uh, this is Jeff with the church digital. We'll see you next 00:48:01.200 --> 00:48:02.960 time here on the podcast. Y'all have a good day.