WEBVTT

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 Episode 62 of the Church Digital Podcast, powered by Stadia Church Planning.

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 Guys, congratulations. We did it. We survived Easter.

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 A month ago, people were freaking out about this whole church online thing,

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 and then we went and did the impossible. We did the Super Bowl.

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 We did the biggest Sunday of the year and did it in a church online environment.

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 You out there, the creative geniuses, the online pastors, the executive pastors,

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 the lead pastors, the volunteer. Each of you did a phenomenal job to help these services happen online.

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 You all should be applauded for what happened as a result of it.

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 It's funny. While I was doing this recording, I actually had a text come in from a friend of mine

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 who's connected with Life.Church, works on the church online platform, that project.

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 And so I've got some stats. I don't think these are final stats,

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 but this is just even where we are in the midst of Sunday when I'm doing this recording.

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 11.4 million people watched a church service on the church online platform.

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 Of those, 57,000 services.

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 57,000 services have been executed on the church online platform.

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 Over 70,000 salvations as a result of it.

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 134 countries.

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 By the way, this is like 1.30 p.m. Eastern Time on Sunday the 12th.

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 We're still in the midst of Easter Sunday, and we're already seeing stats like this coming in,

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 and I'm sure it's going to skyrocket.

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 By the way, I'm not sure if we had did all physical services.

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 I don't think we would have reached 134 countries.

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 And there's this interesting merger between physical and digital.

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 Now, look, we really know how to do the physical church service.

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 We've been doing the physical church service as a church.

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 We've been doing them for centuries, the physical church service.

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 I think, gun to our head, we've been trying to figure out how to do the church online service,

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 the digital church service well.

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 The conversation that I want to have today is, what does it look like to do both well?

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 What does it look like to take the church online, the digital aspect, and then the physical aspect,

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 and do it well together so that it's a merger of physical and digital?

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 What if, hey, let's just make up a word because that's what we do, right?

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 What if we're looking at a physical church, one that marries physical and digital together with that?

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 What are the differences?

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 What are the strengths and weaknesses?

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 What are the opportunities that we have to combine, and what would that do for us, the church, long term?

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 Listen, we made it past getting all our church services online.

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 We made it past Easter, which was one giant hurdle that we as a church had.

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 We've got an opportunity now to do the next thing, and that's develop a strategy for the church

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 that is merging physical and digital together, a fidgetal strategy for the church.

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 That's the challenge before you.

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 And to this end, we're bringing in a podcast, a conversation.

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 We've got Jay Cranda from Saddleback Church, one of the OGs right now of Church Online,

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 original gangster.

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 In case, like, you're not up with the lingo, you know, I try to stay cool at 42.

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 Jay's coming back in.

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 No strangers to the podcast.

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 He was actually one of the first guests we had on the podcast a year ago.

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 We're coming up on our one-year anniversary.

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 And then we're also bringing in a co-host of the podcast here, digital pastor of Christ Fellowship Miami,

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 Ray DeArmas, in a conversation that I'm calling Tomorrow's Fidgetal Strategy.

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 All right, everybody.

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 Here we go.

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 Who would have won the NBA Finals this year?

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 I actually think it would have been the Lakers.

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 You think?

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 I actually do.

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 Yeah.

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 Would this have been the year?

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 Yeah, absolutely.

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 Well, when you say the year, I mean, we've had many years, so you don't need to, like, tell us.

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 I am sorry, sir.

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 I did not mean to offend you when I said that.

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 It's a pre-staried history over there.

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 Yeah, we're not, trust me, there's no drought, so here, we're good.

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 But, yeah, I think the Lakers had a, and I know I'm biased, I think they had a legitimate chance to do it,

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 considering everything.

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 But you never know.

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 The playoffs were deep this year.

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 The teams were deep.

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 There were everybody, I think there were, like, four teams that legitimately could have, if they would have gotten on fire,

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 which is all you need.

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 You just need four, you need four games, man.

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 That's all you need, so.

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 It's true.

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 It's true.

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 I think it would have been, you guys are the Clippers.

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 I think either way, the trophy would have stayed in Los Angeles.

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 Whoever came out of the West was going to win, just because, to me, Antetokounmpo is going to leave.

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 Like, the Bucs just don't have enough.

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 That's going to be that.

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 But, yeah.

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 Yeah, yeah.

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 I think LeBron gets his third championship with a third team.

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 Solidifying yet another piece on his resume for history.

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 Yeah.

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 Now you're depressing me, Jeff.

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 Now I'm, like, now we got to, now I got to wait, you know, because most likely they're not going to play.

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 I know that they're trying to make stuff happen in July, but.

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 Are they really?

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 I hadn't heard.

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 At sea.

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 At sea.

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 I know.

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 Well, like, they're trying, it's like the, what's his name from the UFC?

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 Like, they're trying to buy the island.

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 He's trying to, like, buy an island so he can go.

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 Like, Dana White?

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 Yeah.

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 Yeah, he's trying to have fights on an island somewhere.

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 But people are not.

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 I mean, the thing is, I was listening to something yesterday, and they were talking about, like, I guess they did WrestleMania with nobody.

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 Yes.

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 Yes.

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 An empty room.

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 I didn't watch it, but they said it was kind of weird.

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 Everybody was just like, it's definitely super strange.

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 So, I don't know.

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 I don't know how a team, I was watching, I watched a couple nights ago the old, the Utah Bulls games, and I totally forgot the Utah, I remember the thing with the old, with the Utah games was how loud the arena was, because it was all up on it.

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 Like, it was just kind of a weird, it was like a tight arena, and they kept going to shots of the noise level in the arena, which I totally, I know that was the thing Utah did forever.

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 But it was funny, because it wasn't a digital meter, it was, like, an actual shot of, like, a real meter, like, somewhere, like, because they couldn't do it digitally, so it just kept shot into this camera shot.

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 I was like, they felt so old.

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 But I'm like, yeah, I don't know how in a quiet arena where you could hear everything, it would be really strange, and playoffs are such a momentum.

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 There is something about basketball when it's loud, and it's just, I don't know how that would be.

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 And I don't know how it would affect the teams.

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 And I don't know how, you would have to essentially lock everybody down.

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 You would have to say, hey, guys, we're playing in this area, this, every, you can't leave, like, and you're just stuck here for the next, you know, for the next month.

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 Weeks, weeks.

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 Yeah.

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 Yeah, and, like, would people really want to do that?

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 I don't know.

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 We'll see.

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 Well, the other thing, Jay, is it's not just the players themselves, right?

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 Like, it's their staff, it's the coaches, it's a whole lot of folks.

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 Yeah, it's a lot of folks that you have to have under wraps for quarantine for all this stuff.

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 But I agree with you.

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 Look, when we talk about wrestling, like, when I was in college, I went to go see the filming of Monday Night Raw here in Miami.

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 Oh, yeah.

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 Yeah.

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 And, man, this was during the Stone Cold Rock era when they were, like, both huge.

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 And, man, what an amazing experience.

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 But I saw some of the clips of WrestleMania and stuff.

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 Dude, you get the crowd out of it.

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 It's, like, 70% of wrestling is gone.

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 It's just awkward.

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 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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 You can't, yeah, that's the thing.

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 It's, we have, you know, we moved next to our, like, our closest friends.

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 And so we've been, like, in quarantine with each other, kind of.

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 But another friend lives on the same street, and they have kids that are older.

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 And one of the kids is kind of, like, he's not a bane to any of the rules.

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 And so we had a conversation today about, like, okay, this, our friend's son, Jacob,

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 who we, I was, like, his small group leader in high school.

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 Like, I love Jacob.

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 But, like, he's going in and out.

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 He's not a bane to anything.

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 And so now he's going to be home.

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 And we had this, we're going to have this weird conversation.

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 Like, you know, we're going to have to tell him, like, he can't just come over to our house.

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 Because, essentially, if he wants to break the rules, he can.

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 But we are in self-quarantine right now, like, between our families.

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 And so we, and you're risking, because our friend's mom is going to come stay with them.

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 And she's high risk, essentially.

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 And so, like, so this is what's going to, how are you going to control all these teams,

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 all their kids, all their families?

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 Like, so you really have to, you have to have those type of conversations.

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 Oh, so your daughter who's in college wants to go to the local coffee shop and just grabs

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 them and come back.

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 Like, did she wear a mask?

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 Are you doing the temperature stuff?

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 Are you going to do what China's doing with the green, yellow card stuff?

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 Where, like, that's how they're, like, I know it's possible.

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 But, like, I know they have to go into a player's agreement deal.

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 They have to go to the player's association and go, like, because it is infringing in people's

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 rights.

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 Like, it's a big thing.

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 And so it's, like, it's going to be interesting.

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 But regardless, we have to figure it out here in the next month or so as they start lifting

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 stuff.

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 If Americans just wear masks, we probably can go back to some activity.

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 But will people obey is the real issue.

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 So our autonomy has always kind of been the issue at this.

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 And I find it very spiritual, like, on one side, because, right, like, the Bible that we

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 study is actually Eastern in thought.

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 And so there's a lot more thought in terms of how an individual's actions affect the community.

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 When this whole thing happened, the instant thing that was insulted was everybody's autonomy,

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 was everybody's individual rights.

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 It's like, no government's going to tell me that I can't worship at church in person.

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 Yeah.

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 Are you not thinking Christologically about how your actions affect the community?

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 That's a struggle.

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 Yeah, I know.

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 It's a good question.

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 When we get past coronavirus, when life gets back to whatever normal is, what does church look

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 like?

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 What does culture look like around us?

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 It's like, we started, we're talking about, you know, WWE, WWF, and, you know, the rock

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 doing his hand thing to the ear.

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 Are you smelling what the rock's cooking in the kitchen?

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 Whatever the line is.

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 It's been so long since I watched that stuff.

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 I was more of a Hulk Hogan, Ultimate Warrior, kind of, like, that was my heyday way back when.

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 And so, like, you're right.

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 That, take that out of the equation, out of that physical environment where you're just

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 watching it online, there is a piece of it where, yeah, you need that physical component.

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 But without having the online part, without it being broadcast, you're definitely losing

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 a lot of reach.

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 And so, there's this tension, and I can't believe I'm drawing an analogy of church at WWE.

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 I did not plan this when I started this podcast.

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 But you've got this tension, right, between, all right, so let's go all the way back to

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 the way that it was before coronavirus, where all these churches aren't having anything to

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 do with online.

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 Okay, you can maybe do that.

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 I don't even know that you can do that, because I think culture is swinging so far the other

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 way towards having more digital, more technology, more community centered around these technology

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 pieces.

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 So, like, I think there's a balance between the two.

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 Like, when you look, when you think at what is culture going to look like post-coronavirus,

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 when you think, how is the church, how can the church respond to this?

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 Jake Cranda, Ray DeArmas, two of the smartest people I know, which is why I wanted you on this

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 podcast.

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 What are you thinking about?

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 What does the future look like?

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 I will, I was actually just thinking how you kind of look like Jake the snake.

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 I was just like, you got, that's awesome.

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 Yeah, you got, you got the look a little bit.

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 So, but anyways, so I, yeah, it's a, it's a good question.

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 I, I, I, I go to two places.

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 I definitely think that a lot of people are going to immediately leverage, you know, Zoom

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 for a lot more things.

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 I think there's a lot of, there was a quote today that I was reading in an article and

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 he was talking about kind of this idea of, of what the coronavirus is doing.

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 And I'll just read it.

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 It was from Ben Thompson.

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 He says, the coronavirus crisis will not so much foment drastic changes as it will accelerate

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 trends that were already happening.

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 Changes that might have taken 10 to 15 years simply because of the, this stickness of the

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 status quo may now happen in far less time.

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 And so he was talking about like, uh, cutting cords.

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 So if people have cable because of live streaming of sports and there's no live sports, a lot

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 of people might immediately be forced into a, you know, into a corner to go, oh, wow.

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 Like, I don't really need this.

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 I can get everything on Netflix or whatever.

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 Um, and I think churches are realizing like, oh, wow.

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 Like we can do meetings online.

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 We, we can do support groups online.

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 We can do coaching online.

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 I, you know, I, I was kind of joking that right now, if you get, if you get let go at your

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 church and you need to get hired at a church right now, you could really get hired anywhere.

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 Like any church is doing remote, like remote stuff.

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 Now they might not want to do that.

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 Um, or they might not have the funds right now to do that.

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 So it's not really a good time for that to happen, but I, I do think there's a lot of

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 people just realizing, oh, wow.

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 Like a lot of this stuff is working now the flip side.

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 I do also feel that there's a lot of people that this might give them justification to

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 not do things online after this, because they might go, this didn't work for us, or I didn't

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 see this.

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 And I actually think a lot of that is coming from the confusion around metrics.

00:13:50.380 --> 00:13:54.660
 I don't feel like a lot of people are like, they're, they're looking at all this stuff

00:13:54.660 --> 00:13:59.340
 and they're like, wow, a lot of people are watching this or this isn't, this isn't working.

00:13:59.340 --> 00:14:05.340
 And I think if you didn't have the platform set up for this pre COVID-19 and all of a

00:14:05.340 --> 00:14:09.060
 sudden everybody has to watch on Facebook and YouTube and on your website, whatever, if

00:14:09.060 --> 00:14:12.540
 you didn't have that platform set up, you're having to remessage a bunch of people where

00:14:12.540 --> 00:14:12.980
 to go.

00:14:13.160 --> 00:14:15.480
 And the people that already had that, it was seamless.

00:14:15.620 --> 00:14:17.380
 Like for us, we already had a platform.

00:14:17.880 --> 00:14:20.400
 We had, you know, subscribers, we had things.

00:14:20.540 --> 00:14:22.780
 And so people automatically knew where to go.

00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:24.640
 And I think a lot of people, the first couple of weeks have been.

00:14:24.660 --> 00:14:28.560
 And I am scared that might give them reason to not reinvest.

00:14:28.920 --> 00:14:31.780
 And I, and I feel both feel like both camps kind of exist.

00:14:31.900 --> 00:14:32.140
 I do.

00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:34.080
 I do feel like more people will leverage it.

00:14:34.380 --> 00:14:39.040
 I feel like that camp's larger, but I am a little nervous for what people will do after

00:14:39.040 --> 00:14:39.320
 this.

00:14:39.340 --> 00:14:42.940
 It might, might stop doing some things just because they said, oh, look, we did that.

00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:44.380
 And it didn't really work that great.

00:14:45.220 --> 00:14:48.480
 You know, I'm actually a little more optimistic, even though I agree with you.

00:14:48.540 --> 00:14:49.640
 I think that things will change.

00:14:49.640 --> 00:14:50.980
 And I'm glad that you cited that article.

00:14:50.980 --> 00:14:51.920
 Because I couldn't agree more.

00:14:52.040 --> 00:14:58.240
 This really, it advanced us a lot quicker than what we had thought in terms of arriving

00:14:58.240 --> 00:14:59.080
 at this point.

00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:04.380
 I was telling Jeff earlier that we were so happy that 90% of our physical groups actually

00:15:04.380 --> 00:15:09.440
 transitioned to an online environment during this time, which was bigger than what I thought

00:15:09.440 --> 00:15:10.040
 would happen.

00:15:10.640 --> 00:15:13.760
 And so that right there, but there were already exactly what you're saying, Jay.

00:15:13.800 --> 00:15:15.400
 We had a lot of the things in place.

00:15:15.540 --> 00:15:17.500
 We had, oh, we know how to do this.

00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:19.020
 We've done this already in other environments.

00:15:19.020 --> 00:15:20.580
 We've, we've taken our services online.

00:15:20.660 --> 00:15:21.800
 We've taken small groups online.

00:15:21.880 --> 00:15:23.120
 We've got membership online.

00:15:23.120 --> 00:15:27.640
 We've got like so many different things that are possible that people can encounter these

00:15:27.640 --> 00:15:29.480
 environments in an online process.

00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:32.000
 Most of our church was already onboarded to online giving.

00:15:32.180 --> 00:15:34.720
 So some of those things were already in place.

00:15:34.720 --> 00:15:37.040
 And for the churches that were not, this was very difficult.

00:15:37.220 --> 00:15:42.200
 Now, the reason I say I'm more optimistic is because I think that churches now, both church

00:15:42.200 --> 00:15:43.480
 plants and moving forward.

00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:47.760
 And even those are going to be replants are now going to have in mind that they need to

00:15:47.760 --> 00:15:51.320
 have at least some kind of presence in the digital environment.

00:15:51.580 --> 00:15:55.240
 Even if they're not going to stream their services, their pastors are going to be more conscientious

00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:59.360
 of the fact that, man, I've got to stay connected with my people during the one, six, seven, all

00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:00.260
 those hours of the week.

00:16:00.260 --> 00:16:04.200
 I think that's going to be a primary engagement driving factor kind of moving forward.

00:16:04.800 --> 00:16:07.660
 Whether it's going to be through social media platforms or something else.

00:16:07.760 --> 00:16:10.860
 And it's not even going to be before they would like insult people saying, oh, well, that's

00:16:10.860 --> 00:16:11.700
 just celebrity stuff.

00:16:11.700 --> 00:16:13.360
 That's just people trying to accentuate themselves.

00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:18.660
 I think now they recognize, oh, no, there's a need for my people to be connected on a regular

00:16:18.660 --> 00:16:23.220
 basis throughout the week to pastoral community, to have something, somebody shepherding them

00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:24.080
 there in that kind of way.

00:16:24.320 --> 00:16:28.600
 And so that's something that I could see that hangs around for a long time moving forward

00:16:28.600 --> 00:16:29.400
 in church leadership.

00:16:30.260 --> 00:16:35.900
 Yeah, that's a good, I was just, as you were saying that, I was thinking of a lot of church

00:16:35.900 --> 00:16:38.320
 plants and people coming out of seminary right now.

00:16:38.460 --> 00:16:43.600
 And I got an email from somebody just yesterday that they're, they're graduating from seminary

00:16:43.600 --> 00:16:45.440
 and they're wanting to plant a church online.

00:16:46.380 --> 00:16:51.060
 And I'm thinking there's a lot of these people that are finishing up school, or maybe, you

00:16:51.060 --> 00:16:53.360
 know, there's a friend here locally that planted a church.

00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:58.340
 And I'm just thinking, oh man, what a terrible time to be like cut off from a lot of the financial

00:16:58.340 --> 00:16:58.920
 support.

00:16:58.920 --> 00:17:02.480
 Because it is, it's like, you know, churches that have been going for a couple of years,

00:17:02.480 --> 00:17:07.660
 you're going to generally have some base, but if you're just, just launching or just launched,

00:17:07.660 --> 00:17:08.560
 it's going to be really rough.

00:17:08.560 --> 00:17:13.700
 But I, I, I am excited for the people thinking about planting churches, uh, instead of getting

00:17:13.700 --> 00:17:18.420
 so wrapped up and just picking a location and a building, you know, more people are going

00:17:18.420 --> 00:17:22.020
 to go, oh, wow, maybe we should just start streaming and start doing this.

00:17:22.020 --> 00:17:23.880
 And the barrier of entry is a lot lower now.

00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:28.000
 And, and I, I like that because I think it gets them thinking digital really early.

00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:28.940
 Yeah.

00:17:28.940 --> 00:17:33.380
 Let me, let me pitch in something on that because like, and I'm going to put on my Stadia hat

00:17:33.380 --> 00:17:34.200
 here for a second.

00:17:34.700 --> 00:17:38.220
 There are some phenomenal stories that are coming out of Stadia.

00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:40.940
 Next week, we're going to have, um, uh, Patrick.

00:17:40.940 --> 00:17:42.680
 He's, he's a church planner.

00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:48.300
 Um, the man's not even living in the city where his church is, is planning yet.

00:17:48.300 --> 00:17:54.360
 And he's utilizing Facebook groups and church line to ramp up his actual ministry and, and

00:17:54.360 --> 00:18:00.260
 how he's got such, like even today, he started rolling out his strategy for how he's using

00:18:00.260 --> 00:18:06.040
 local Facebook groups to connect with people, trying to get exposure to me, to funnel them

00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:06.280
 in.

00:18:06.500 --> 00:18:08.540
 It's phenomenal, the stuff that he's doing.

00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:12.480
 And he's not even located within the city that he's trying to reach.

00:18:12.860 --> 00:18:16.100
 There are people that we're going to be doing blogs with and going to write content.

00:18:16.420 --> 00:18:19.840
 There's guys who were scheduled to launch their church in the fall.

00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:24.920
 And they're looking at, at like the ramp up of what's, what's happening in this season.

00:18:25.080 --> 00:18:27.320
 And they're like, yeah, we want to roll sooner.

00:18:27.500 --> 00:18:28.860
 Like let's launch now.

00:18:28.940 --> 00:18:32.840
 We're not, we're not prepared for physical, but let's do ministry now because this is where

00:18:32.840 --> 00:18:34.320
 people need us.

00:18:34.500 --> 00:18:37.860
 And so it's, it's amazing to me because some people it's, there's a mix.

00:18:37.940 --> 00:18:38.700
 I've seen both.

00:18:38.760 --> 00:18:41.520
 There's some people who are like, I don't even know what's going on right now.

00:18:41.580 --> 00:18:43.180
 I'm going to pause and I'm going to delay.

00:18:43.380 --> 00:18:48.020
 And then at the same time, I've seen people who are like, dude, the fire's over there.

00:18:48.080 --> 00:18:48.760
 That's where I'm needed.

00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.140
 I'm running towards the fire to try to do what I can.

00:18:52.240 --> 00:18:56.480
 It's, it's this phenomenal experience where you start to see planners.

00:18:56.640 --> 00:19:03.520
 I had a, had a giga church, literally 20,000 member church, physical locations.

00:19:03.880 --> 00:19:08.580
 Their online pastor said to me the other day, man, I wish I was at a church plant right now

00:19:08.580 --> 00:19:13.260
 where I could be doing tangible ministry because he's even recognizing, which is scary.

00:19:13.400 --> 00:19:17.220
 And I kind of had to work with him a little bit, but he's seeing this point of, okay, what's

00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:21.420
 happening at the, at, at the physical level with the broadcast and all this, that's so

00:19:21.420 --> 00:19:23.460
 far away from the, the relationships.

00:19:23.460 --> 00:19:27.360
 You have to work really hard to get into those tangible relationships.

00:19:28.060 --> 00:19:31.900
 Uh, and that's, that's really where a lot of the church online, the relationships, that's

00:19:31.900 --> 00:19:37.240
 where the, the life change in the discipleship comes in small churches, church plants have

00:19:37.240 --> 00:19:42.520
 a huge opportunity in the time ahead to utilize technology in a real way.

00:19:42.620 --> 00:19:47.700
 I don't know that they really realized it beforehand, but I know a lot of churches are learning it

00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:48.660
 kind of in this season.

00:19:49.140 --> 00:19:49.500
 Yeah.

00:19:49.640 --> 00:19:54.240
 And just to throw this in on the flip side, like I heard, um, from some folks that how

00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.520
 disappointed they were that their churches weren't offering anything here locally in

00:19:57.520 --> 00:20:02.520
 Miami, how almost disenfranchised they felt like they felt so isolated as a result of it.

00:20:02.560 --> 00:20:06.420
 And these are older elderly folks, you know, their churches weren't even offering, you know,

00:20:06.420 --> 00:20:10.140
 the people that you thought, Oh, well, those folks might not necessarily have be into church

00:20:10.140 --> 00:20:11.080
 online or whatever else.

00:20:11.080 --> 00:20:16.060
 They felt alone in the fact that their church wasn't offering any opportunity for them to engage

00:20:16.060 --> 00:20:20.560
 online and they were coming to us saying, Hey, we're going to be watching your services in

00:20:20.560 --> 00:20:22.920
 this time because we have nothing else.

00:20:23.280 --> 00:20:26.280
 And I almost wanted to give that, pick up that pastor's phone and be like, Hey man, can

00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:29.040
 you please just record yourself for this poor old lady here?

00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.040
 Like, cause she wants to be part of your church.

00:20:31.100 --> 00:20:35.040
 She still wants to be tied in there, but you're not providing that opportunity for her.

00:20:35.080 --> 00:20:35.760
 Like that's a shame.

00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:40.780
 I've heard that from a couple of people just looking at pausing and, and I do, do think

00:20:40.780 --> 00:20:45.340
 it's overwhelming when you think about doing church online.

00:20:45.340 --> 00:20:49.220
 And especially if you think of it as an all or nothing type of initiative.

00:20:50.080 --> 00:20:55.300
 Um, uh, we, we've been talking a lot about the ideas that there's like kind of four pillars

00:20:55.300 --> 00:20:56.720
 of how you kind of do it.

00:20:56.880 --> 00:21:01.080
 It's it's, you have large gatherings online, you have small gatherings online, you have one

00:21:01.080 --> 00:21:07.580
 on one connections and you have self-guided, uh, kind of opportunities and your church needs

00:21:07.580 --> 00:21:12.440
 to do all those and you as the pastor don't need to do it all, but you need to encourage

00:21:12.440 --> 00:21:17.560
 your key people and your small groups and the people mentoring to use these venues, because

00:21:17.560 --> 00:21:20.200
 ultimately you as the pastor are not doing all the ministry.

00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:22.300
 And so you got to understand some of it.

00:21:22.380 --> 00:21:24.000
 You got to enable your key people to do it.

00:21:24.220 --> 00:21:27.420
 But I do think a lot of, I do think it calls out.

00:21:27.420 --> 00:21:33.800
 Like if it's, if you're just streaming, I still believe that it's, it's because your ministry

00:21:33.800 --> 00:21:39.040
 paradigm was so dependent on people being present and the more you do stuff online.

00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:42.760
 And I know you guys have experienced this before you do something digital.

00:21:42.760 --> 00:21:47.800
 You have, you have to really think through it because it's, it's, you have to pre-program

00:21:47.800 --> 00:21:48.060
 it.

00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:49.540
 You got to write out your emails.

00:21:49.660 --> 00:21:51.220
 You got to coach your people.

00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:56.120
 And I think a lot of people, the way they do ministries, people show up and they preach

00:21:56.120 --> 00:21:57.400
 and then they have these conversations.

00:21:57.400 --> 00:22:01.880
 And sometimes digital kind of calls out all this, this planning that you have to do.

00:22:02.400 --> 00:22:03.760
 And it's, it is hard.

00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:10.260
 So I, I, I'm, I'm praying that a lot of people, as the weeks go on, that they get challenged

00:22:10.260 --> 00:22:12.600
 not to be like, not just a pause.

00:22:12.600 --> 00:22:17.280
 And that even the people that are doing small things that you got to lean into more uncomfortable,

00:22:17.280 --> 00:22:22.460
 like you've got to up your game slowly because this is as, as the weeks and the months draw

00:22:22.460 --> 00:22:26.300
 on, however long we're in this season, you can't pause, cannot be an answer.

00:22:26.300 --> 00:22:28.920
 It can be an answer for some things, but not for everything.

00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:29.840
 Yeah.

00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:33.540
 You know, Jay, a conversation that I think that this advanced drastically, and we were

00:22:33.540 --> 00:22:37.640
 highlighting this with our staff the last couple of weeks was the, the engagement being the

00:22:37.640 --> 00:22:39.140
 new attendance conversation.

00:22:39.800 --> 00:22:45.660
 To me, this whole thing is, is advanced this light years ahead because, you know, everybody's

00:22:45.660 --> 00:22:47.080
 falling in love with the views right now, right?

00:22:47.080 --> 00:22:48.000
 Like, oh man, great.

00:22:48.020 --> 00:22:49.120
 We got awesome views.

00:22:49.240 --> 00:22:51.340
 Hey, everybody's reaching thousands and thousands of people.

00:22:51.480 --> 00:22:51.680
 Wonderful.

00:22:52.060 --> 00:22:55.440
 But the thing that I keep telling them is, all right, but how many, how many connections did

00:22:55.440 --> 00:22:56.360
 we receive that week?

00:22:56.580 --> 00:22:58.460
 How many people are getting plugged into small groups?

00:22:58.460 --> 00:23:03.260
 Because if, and when, if, and when it comes time to transition back to physical locations,

00:23:03.880 --> 00:23:06.860
 like we need to make sure that people are connected.

00:23:07.100 --> 00:23:08.720
 We need to make sure that they're connected.

00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:13.040
 And even then in the here and now, if they're going to be cared for, they have to be connected,

00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.840
 whether it's in small group, whether they're serving, they have to have some kind of tangible

00:23:16.840 --> 00:23:17.820
 connection to the church.

00:23:17.920 --> 00:23:22.780
 And so we have to hone in on those metrics now and put a greater emphasis on those than

00:23:22.780 --> 00:23:24.780
 we do on the actual view count week to week.

00:23:26.140 --> 00:23:26.500
 Yeah.

00:23:26.620 --> 00:23:30.320
 So, I mean, engagement, at least how I define engagement, it's a two-way conversation.

00:23:30.320 --> 00:23:39.580
 So, it's user, computer user, online attender, engaging in a situation with the church or

00:23:39.580 --> 00:23:44.980
 someone from the church to the point that they're no longer just consuming a product, but they're

00:23:44.980 --> 00:23:48.280
 responding and engaging with it in the physical space.

00:23:48.860 --> 00:23:50.280
 There's three different models of church.

00:23:50.400 --> 00:23:52.960
 One would be a physical only model of church.

00:23:53.100 --> 00:23:58.020
 One that is, hey, we're just going back to the way that it was in the physical space.

00:23:58.460 --> 00:24:02.780
 There's the other end of the spectrum, and this is one that I've done a lot of talking

00:24:02.780 --> 00:24:10.000
 about, where it's a digital-only model, a digital ecclesiology only in virtual space.

00:24:10.060 --> 00:24:12.600
 It's not dependent on the physical at all.

00:24:13.140 --> 00:24:14.780
 And then there's probably something in between.

00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:15.860
 Call it more fidgetal.

00:24:15.940 --> 00:24:18.460
 That's the term that Stadia is using right now.

00:24:18.880 --> 00:24:25.860
 Towards, it's a mixture of digital and physical, where we're utilizing the physical church, but

00:24:25.860 --> 00:24:31.460
 we're utilizing the digital tools to create a mixed model of it.

00:24:31.600 --> 00:24:34.840
 Ray, we've been on podcasts with Eric Geiger.

00:24:34.960 --> 00:24:39.840
 I think Geiger is actually the first person that I ever heard say the word fidgetal back

00:24:39.840 --> 00:24:42.720
 when we did this podcast almost a year ago now.

00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:43.480
 Man, it's been crazy.

00:24:44.280 --> 00:24:45.740
 Here's my question with all that.

00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:53.880
 Is a physical-only in this culture, and I'm not looking for mic drops here, but legitimately,

00:24:54.300 --> 00:24:56.020
 is that even going to work?

00:24:57.520 --> 00:25:00.580
 Technology has shifted and adjusted so far.

00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:06.220
 Yeah, there's probably some churches that still could be physical-only and ignore it.

00:25:06.560 --> 00:25:12.680
 But I'm wondering, at some point, is it already gone, where a physical-only approach, they're

00:25:12.680 --> 00:25:13.420
 not going to last?

00:25:13.600 --> 00:25:15.000
 Is there room for it?

00:25:15.040 --> 00:25:16.140
 Am I being too doomsday?

00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:18.040
 I'm open to feedback.

00:25:18.140 --> 00:25:18.840
 What do you guys think?

00:25:18.900 --> 00:25:19.580
 Physical-only.

00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:24.420
 I think you're always going to have outliers in terms of the physical-only that you'll be

00:25:24.420 --> 00:25:25.040
 able to point to.

00:25:25.300 --> 00:25:28.600
 And that they'll be able to point to themselves and say, you see, we did it without digital,

00:25:28.780 --> 00:25:30.060
 as if there's a gold medal for that.

00:25:31.220 --> 00:25:33.480
 I think those are always going to exist.

00:25:33.620 --> 00:25:35.340
 I don't think it's going to be the norm, though.

00:25:37.300 --> 00:25:43.260
 I think within the bell curve of, hey, strictly digital and strictly physical, I think the

00:25:43.260 --> 00:25:46.020
 greater is going to be in the middle, where the physical meets.

00:25:46.800 --> 00:25:50.680
 But within that, though, I think you are still going to have some on the outlier side that

00:25:50.680 --> 00:25:53.420
 say, nope, we are not going to podcast even.

00:25:53.560 --> 00:25:54.940
 We're not going to put our stuff streaming.

00:25:55.120 --> 00:25:56.280
 We're not going to do any of that.

00:25:56.620 --> 00:26:00.680
 Instead, we're going to make sure that all of our meetings are in physical spaces and

00:26:00.680 --> 00:26:01.100
 environment.

00:26:01.220 --> 00:26:02.560
 I think that's still a little hot.

00:26:03.340 --> 00:26:03.740
 Yeah.

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.680
 And it's really, it comes down to like, you know, each of us are called to reach the people

00:26:08.680 --> 00:26:09.700
 God calls us to reach.

00:26:09.840 --> 00:26:15.440
 So is the question, can people leverage just physical and not digital?

00:26:15.620 --> 00:26:18.640
 Well, of course, there's always going to be counter movements to reach different people.

00:26:19.060 --> 00:26:23.980
 You know, it's kind of like the difference between, you know, Orange County to Los Angeles

00:26:23.980 --> 00:26:29.080
 County to, you know, outside of Seattle, like every little subculture exists.

00:26:29.080 --> 00:26:35.100
 And, you know, I don't have to like Minecraft for Minecraft to be used and popular.

00:26:35.100 --> 00:26:35.640
 You know what I mean?

00:26:35.640 --> 00:26:41.060
 Like it, it is, you know, there's so much of the internet that I just don't get and, but

00:26:41.060 --> 00:26:42.180
 it's still relevant.

00:26:42.180 --> 00:26:46.320
 You know, I pull up any YouTuber and I, I get annoyed in a moment and I'm like, how is

00:26:46.320 --> 00:26:47.060
 this person popular?

00:26:47.540 --> 00:26:52.440
 And it's, but it's the point is that, you know, it's, it's the whole thing that's happened

00:26:52.440 --> 00:26:53.860
 with zoom in the last couple of weeks.

00:26:53.860 --> 00:26:55.580
 Like zoom has been around.

00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:58.080
 Many of us have been using zoom for five plus years.

00:26:58.500 --> 00:27:02.700
 And the problem with zoom, what happened in the last couple of weeks is when 200 million

00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:03.560
 people use it.

00:27:03.720 --> 00:27:08.620
 And 1% of those 2 million people get scared because a third of their people are in China.

00:27:08.620 --> 00:27:12.880
 Then everybody has, there's a backlash on zoom and it's like, nothing really changed.

00:27:12.880 --> 00:27:16.300
 It just happened to be their audience went berserk.

00:27:16.300 --> 00:27:18.840
 And it just, when you have a large enough people, people get scared.

00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:22.480
 But I think the reverse is true with the church is for sure.

00:27:23.700 --> 00:27:26.900
 People are, there's always going to be things that are going to be relevant.

00:27:26.900 --> 00:27:28.860
 And I think they're going to be people that are unreached.

00:27:29.240 --> 00:27:34.320
 And I just, I think it doesn't, it doesn't make sense if you want to reach a lot of people

00:27:34.320 --> 00:27:36.860
 to not use digital, but can you reach people?

00:27:36.940 --> 00:27:37.300
 Yeah.

00:27:37.380 --> 00:27:42.280
 And I still think that that will be, um, it could be a powerful expression, especially

00:27:42.280 --> 00:27:47.680
 as you know, before this, there were all that stuff going around about how social media

00:27:47.680 --> 00:27:52.160
 and being on your phone and screen time and all this stuff was kind of draining your brain.

00:27:52.160 --> 00:27:55.820
 And the thought was, if you were leaning too much into digital, you were kind of feeding

00:27:55.820 --> 00:27:58.340
 this bad habit and it wasn't mentally healthy.

00:27:59.040 --> 00:28:00.940
 Um, and so I think that will go back.

00:28:01.560 --> 00:28:07.140
 Um, I, I, I, I think whatever we're in, you know, we're going to swing back, uh, the

00:28:07.140 --> 00:28:09.320
 pretty, you know, humans are pretty resilient.

00:28:09.320 --> 00:28:13.620
 And I think, you know, everybody thought the world was going to be one way after 9-11 and

00:28:13.620 --> 00:28:14.100
 guess what?

00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:15.320
 We went back to that way.

00:28:15.440 --> 00:28:19.680
 I think we're going to go back to our ways after this, there will be some changes, but

00:28:19.680 --> 00:28:24.040
 I, I, I think we are, I mean, you look through the, the, the span of history.

00:28:24.040 --> 00:28:28.480
 We we've been through a lot and eventually we, we kind of go back to norm.

00:28:28.480 --> 00:28:32.240
 So I don't think that this will drastically change too much.

00:28:32.240 --> 00:28:35.760
 I just think, I think it will just lead to people.

00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:39.540
 I think there's a portion of people that probably we're going to adopt some digital stuff.

00:28:39.940 --> 00:28:44.520
 Um, I I'm curious, the thing I feel like that, that I think it will impact churches.

00:28:44.880 --> 00:28:50.280
 I think the more we're more remote learning, remote learning stuff is going to be really

00:28:50.280 --> 00:28:50.600
 interesting.

00:28:50.700 --> 00:28:55.120
 I think there's going to be a lot of people more okay with like people working from home

00:28:55.120 --> 00:29:00.800
 and just like, that's, I think a lot of churches just totally, you know, you know, figured that

00:29:00.800 --> 00:29:01.140
 one out.

00:29:01.140 --> 00:29:05.780
 Um, but I, I, I don't think it's going to, I, I feel like for sure digital is the smartest

00:29:05.780 --> 00:29:09.620
 way to do it, but still people will still not do digital for sure.

00:29:09.620 --> 00:29:11.880
 You know, we're going to get to the remote learning.

00:29:12.000 --> 00:29:15.720
 Carrie Newhoff published a thing and I don't want us to unpack it here in a second, but I

00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.580
 want to come back to your four pillars, Jay.

00:29:18.300 --> 00:29:21.820
 Uh, and, and I'm, I'm, I'm glad you said it because it was in the back of my mind.

00:29:21.920 --> 00:29:26.640
 I couldn't figure out what the four were, but I've loved this of you've got the, you know,

00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:31.640
 the large group, you've got small group, you've got one-on-one, and then you've got kind

00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:35.900
 of self-led self-taught systems that are in place.

00:29:36.140 --> 00:29:42.560
 I would suggest pre-coronavirus that church was using was very good.

00:29:42.760 --> 00:29:48.280
 I say that we were really good at broadcasting services and we were really good at making

00:29:48.280 --> 00:29:54.420
 sermon archives and some resources available for us, quote unquote, self-taught.

00:29:54.520 --> 00:30:00.500
 I don't know that we were really developing rich funnels and curriculum there, but I think

00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:05.860
 we were, we thought we were good at maybe the, the large group and, and the self.

00:30:06.200 --> 00:30:12.900
 I don't think that we had really given much attention to the one-on-one and, and the small

00:30:12.900 --> 00:30:18.600
 group, I think that we're seeing the small group grow, um, quickly.

00:30:19.140 --> 00:30:24.840
 If no, nothing else in like situations like Ray where, Hey, we had to get our groups have

00:30:24.840 --> 00:30:25.280
 to meet.

00:30:25.280 --> 00:30:30.160
 This is a long period of time and now, you know, Ray's telling stories of 90% of their

00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.420
 small groups are now funneled into an online environment.

00:30:33.420 --> 00:30:37.920
 And some of those, when the dust settles, some of them may stick online.

00:30:37.920 --> 00:30:43.420
 Some of them may be a hybrid and, and, and, you know, would love to see some exposure there.

00:30:43.420 --> 00:30:48.880
 I think in this season, I'm, I'm hoping that the church is learning there, there's opportunities

00:30:48.880 --> 00:30:51.320
 for four pillars, not just two.

00:30:51.820 --> 00:30:56.560
 And one thing that I don't even think that we've even realized yet is how to utilize the

00:30:56.560 --> 00:31:03.620
 one-on-one for multiplication, for discipleship, to teach, uh, disciple others to the point

00:31:03.620 --> 00:31:05.740
 where they can disciple someone else.

00:31:05.960 --> 00:31:09.660
 So I think there's even opportunities for us to grow in this season where we even are today

00:31:09.660 --> 00:31:11.340
 towards what tomorrow can be.

00:31:13.340 --> 00:31:15.400
 Kind of any, any thoughts, any thoughts on that?

00:31:15.500 --> 00:31:19.880
 How, how have you seen the, the, the small groups or the one-on-one kind of, what does

00:31:19.880 --> 00:31:21.400
 that look like in, in, in your environments?

00:31:23.060 --> 00:31:28.340
 So for us, um, you know, the small group has really been transformed in a lot of ways.

00:31:28.340 --> 00:31:31.660
 I mean, we were already doing digital small groups before through zoom or through Google

00:31:31.660 --> 00:31:34.440
 hangouts or whatever methods that the group leader wanted to choose.

00:31:34.860 --> 00:31:39.040
 But, um, but Jeff, what you're talking about here, you know, I don't even know if we're,

00:31:39.100 --> 00:31:40.100
 if we're succeeding at that.

00:31:40.140 --> 00:31:42.280
 I'm, I look forward to hearing Jay's answer a little bit more.

00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:47.240
 This is what I was going to highlight is remember we, we spoke to Ed Stetzer a few, a few episodes

00:31:47.240 --> 00:31:51.860
 ago where he talked about the need for the third environment that churches need, like

00:31:51.860 --> 00:31:52.920
 a third environment.

00:31:53.320 --> 00:31:57.840
 And we talked about how digital can become that we're finding that we're creating more

00:31:57.840 --> 00:31:58.100
 content.

00:31:58.100 --> 00:32:01.200
 content, but even I've been coming back and talking to our leadership about creating

00:32:01.200 --> 00:32:02.880
 more community around that third environment.

00:32:02.880 --> 00:32:07.920
 environment, because as such, we've kind of become like mini Netflix with the amount of content

00:32:07.920 --> 00:32:08.840
 that we've been churning out.

00:32:08.840 --> 00:32:12.080
 Just the need to feed people, social, social, social, thinking that that's connection.

00:32:12.280 --> 00:32:14.640
 But the reality of it is that the opposite is true.

00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:16.460
 People need more community kind of engagement.

00:32:16.660 --> 00:32:20.680
 So Jay, uh, what are some things that you guys have done in terms of the one-on-one stuff,

00:32:20.740 --> 00:32:22.400
 uh, to get good at that?

00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:26.120
 Yeah, I, so for sure we've had a huge conversion as well.

00:32:26.200 --> 00:32:30.220
 I don't know the percentage of, of what's happening, but a lot of stuff we were promoting

00:32:30.220 --> 00:32:36.040
 promoting early on was how to convert your existing group to an online group and then how

00:32:36.040 --> 00:32:37.160
 to join an online group.

00:32:37.160 --> 00:32:43.040
 So I think we, we, we spun up a lot of like more robust tutorial videos on how to use zoom.

00:32:43.140 --> 00:32:49.680
 We spun up a support line so people who were kind of stuck could call in and we could answer

00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:51.820
 questions on whatever I did.

00:32:51.920 --> 00:32:56.320
 I did one where this lady who was like clearly in her eighties, she did not know how to zoom.

00:32:56.380 --> 00:32:57.500
 She's trying to do it from her iPad.

00:32:58.300 --> 00:33:02.820
 And, you know, I'm just, I realized she was scheduling, she was editing her, her zoom meeting

00:33:02.820 --> 00:33:04.600
 on like her iPad calendar.

00:33:04.760 --> 00:33:06.740
 I was like, oh yeah, that doesn't talk to the zoom app.

00:33:06.760 --> 00:33:07.180
 You got to go.

00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:11.340
 So like, so it's like those types of things where you're just trying to, you're trying to

00:33:11.340 --> 00:33:14.180
 help people navigate the gap of, of transition.

00:33:15.140 --> 00:33:20.580
 And then, and because like we're in that where it's, it's, it's the classic, like, you know,

00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:24.600
 what's going to happen when people like with the industrial revolution, we're going to leave

00:33:24.600 --> 00:33:29.560
 people around, you know, the people from the horse to the car and people get left behind.

00:33:29.560 --> 00:33:33.940
 And we're in one of those digital where you could have survived without digital on some

00:33:33.940 --> 00:33:35.980
 level, cause you could have still done stuff.

00:33:35.980 --> 00:33:39.980
 But now those people who hadn't adopted, you know, are being left behind.

00:33:39.980 --> 00:33:41.640
 So we wanted to guide those people.

00:33:42.380 --> 00:33:47.000
 And then it was a lot of, we spun up a lot of online central groups where large groups

00:33:47.000 --> 00:33:51.940
 could be together and we would use zoom breakouts so that people could taste and experience what

00:33:51.940 --> 00:33:56.180
 an online group was before being jumped into starting one or joining one small.

00:33:56.940 --> 00:34:04.780
 But one-on-one, I think a lot of it is around, Hey, experience an online group, join an online

00:34:04.780 --> 00:34:06.220
 group.

00:34:06.220 --> 00:34:09.720
 And then the idea is that you could do this same thing one-on-one with people.

00:34:09.720 --> 00:34:11.800
 And, and I think we've been communicating two things.

00:34:11.800 --> 00:34:16.560
 It's, you could do a zoom, a Skype or just call people.

00:34:16.560 --> 00:34:19.480
 And this is something that, you know, I've been doing.

00:34:19.480 --> 00:34:23.800
 Like I did a zoom with my grandma a couple, like two weeks ago, a week and a half.

00:34:23.800 --> 00:34:24.560
 Oh, grandma.

00:34:25.060 --> 00:34:25.600
 That's awesome.

00:34:25.600 --> 00:34:26.400
 That's so sweet.

00:34:26.660 --> 00:34:27.040
 I love it.

00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:28.400
 And so like, but it was funny.

00:34:28.540 --> 00:34:29.240
 A good grandson.

00:34:29.600 --> 00:34:29.860
 I know.

00:34:29.900 --> 00:34:30.040
 Yeah.

00:34:30.100 --> 00:34:33.380
 I'm just saying it for brownie points, but like, but it was funny.

00:34:33.380 --> 00:34:38.000
 Cause like I said, let's do a zoom and I text all my family and stuff.

00:34:38.000 --> 00:34:42.800
 And we did this zoom and my grandpa, my, my, one of my brothers and his wife live with my

00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:43.400
 grandma right now.

00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:48.120
 And so she, he was able to be tech support and we were all able to get on the call.

00:34:48.120 --> 00:34:51.920
 And the cool thing, I have another brother that's in, um, well, actually just moved.

00:34:52.020 --> 00:34:53.940
 He's in Missouri outside of St. Louis.

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:58.100
 And we were able to all be on this call and we hadn't all been together for like years

00:34:58.100 --> 00:35:00.640
 and like my nephew and stuff.

00:35:00.640 --> 00:35:02.120
 And it was, it showed the power of this.

00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:03.760
 Like, why weren't we doing this before?

00:35:04.360 --> 00:35:07.920
 Like we could have done this, but this forced everybody to do it.

00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:12.660
 And I think with my grandma though, I still, we did that zoom, but I still call her once

00:35:12.660 --> 00:35:12.920
 a week.

00:35:12.920 --> 00:35:13.960
 I call my other grandma too.

00:35:14.080 --> 00:35:17.980
 And so the last couple of weeks, cause two things, I know that they're isolated and they

00:35:17.980 --> 00:35:21.940
 have to stay inside that they're in the demographic to have to, but I just call them.

00:35:22.020 --> 00:35:26.200
 And so I think we're encouraging, you don't have to use complex technology.

00:35:26.200 --> 00:35:27.540
 You could just jump on the phone.

00:35:27.540 --> 00:35:31.640
 And I think a lot of that is just teaching and modeling from, from the pastor side.

00:35:31.640 --> 00:35:35.260
 It's just going, Hey, here's a way you can experience it.

00:35:35.340 --> 00:35:37.800
 Hey, and then we tell them, Hey, you need to do it one-on-one.

00:35:38.120 --> 00:35:40.120
 And then lastly, you can use whatever you want.

00:35:40.260 --> 00:35:41.880
 Just old school call them.

00:35:42.060 --> 00:35:45.740
 You know, I was trying to earlier today, I was meeting with somebody this morning and

00:35:45.740 --> 00:35:49.820
 we were trying to do a zoom call and the, and their wifi went down and it's funny.

00:35:49.920 --> 00:35:52.000
 I just, we called and we did a phone call.

00:35:52.020 --> 00:35:56.340
 And it's like, it doesn't need to be this like complicated thing.

00:35:56.420 --> 00:36:00.960
 And I think sometimes we put the bar so high that it's just like, we just like, and this

00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:01.640
 is the whole thing.

00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:06.180
 You guys know this, our online groups were very agnostic with our technology.

00:36:06.660 --> 00:36:09.600
 So it's just like, meet with your friends, meet with your people.

00:36:10.140 --> 00:36:11.320
 We don't care how you meet.

00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:12.200
 Zoom's a great tool.

00:36:12.380 --> 00:36:14.820
 If it's confusing to you, I don't care.

00:36:15.160 --> 00:36:20.760
 Call, you know, you know, you text each other, whatever, just you need to meet.

00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:24.640
 And so I think the more we tell those stories, the more we provide environments for them to

00:36:24.640 --> 00:36:28.260
 taste it and experience it, the more people will do it.

00:36:28.520 --> 00:36:30.380
 And I, and I think that's why I would encourage pastors.

00:36:30.660 --> 00:36:33.380
 If you're like, I just don't get online groups.

00:36:33.540 --> 00:36:35.020
 I don't, it scares me.

00:36:35.480 --> 00:36:38.520
 I don't, if you don't do it, your community won't do it.

00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:42.600
 And your job is you still want your church to still be a church and you need to facilitate

00:36:42.600 --> 00:36:42.980
 that.

00:36:43.040 --> 00:36:47.460
 And I think a lot of churches are, are the catalysts to people figuring it out.

00:36:47.540 --> 00:36:51.280
 They're either experiencing at work or they're experiencing in their church.

00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:53.440
 And if they start doing it, then guess what?

00:36:53.500 --> 00:36:54.920
 Then they'll go, oh, you know what?

00:36:55.320 --> 00:36:59.500
 I could do this with my family or I could do this with my, with my, with my neighbors.

00:36:59.500 --> 00:37:00.560
 I could use zoom.

00:37:00.560 --> 00:37:04.760
 And I think a lot of people are meeting in online groups for their work and for their

00:37:04.760 --> 00:37:05.060
 church.

00:37:05.060 --> 00:37:08.980
 And that's bleeding over to all areas of life, which ultimately leaves to people not

00:37:08.980 --> 00:37:11.680
 feeling as isolated and it leads to a healthy experience.

00:37:11.720 --> 00:37:16.060
 So I think we do have a job to show that this stuff is possible online and we got to push

00:37:16.060 --> 00:37:17.160
 them and we got to do it.

00:37:17.400 --> 00:37:20.020
 Jay, you said something earlier that really intrigued me.

00:37:20.080 --> 00:37:23.580
 You said that you think that things are going to kind of go back to normal, like really, really

00:37:23.580 --> 00:37:24.020
 quick.

00:37:24.820 --> 00:37:28.060
 You know, in terms of the fact that we're going to get back to the way that things work.

00:37:28.520 --> 00:37:29.960
 Why do you think that's the case?

00:37:29.980 --> 00:37:32.360
 And what do you think some of that's going to look like?

00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:37.460
 Like let's say August, they say, Hey guys, we're ready to go back in to gatherings of

00:37:37.460 --> 00:37:40.380
 50 or more on a nationwide scale in the United States.

00:37:41.040 --> 00:37:42.060
 What does that look like to you?

00:37:42.420 --> 00:37:46.260
 I think if you're, if you do not know, so this is the number one thing.

00:37:46.320 --> 00:37:50.980
 There's a lot of people that went streaming first week or two and they were measuring numbers

00:37:50.980 --> 00:37:54.200
 and now week three, four, five into it, they're seeing a draw.

00:37:54.340 --> 00:37:58.400
 And so I think the narrative is going to be like, wow, that only worked for the first week

00:37:58.400 --> 00:37:58.740
 or two.

00:37:58.820 --> 00:38:00.840
 And now we have a third of wherever we were at.

00:38:00.840 --> 00:38:06.460
 And I think if you don't, if you don't properly understand the metrics, if you don't properly

00:38:06.460 --> 00:38:12.860
 understand what's going on, then I feel like the data, data can be spun in any way possible.

00:38:13.600 --> 00:38:18.020
 It's another example is that if you don't have a good strategy online right, right now, and

00:38:18.020 --> 00:38:21.720
 you're not telling people to get into online groups, if you're not launching them, launching

00:38:21.720 --> 00:38:23.320
 them, then nobody's going to do it.

00:38:23.320 --> 00:38:26.720
 And you might come out of this, go, you know what we stream, but online groups really didn't

00:38:26.720 --> 00:38:27.020
 work.

00:38:27.020 --> 00:38:30.240
 And our people really don't want it because nobody did it.

00:38:30.240 --> 00:38:33.900
 And the question comes down, was that because nobody did it because they really didn't want

00:38:33.900 --> 00:38:34.040
 it?

00:38:34.040 --> 00:38:37.500
 Or was it because your poor leadership, you weren't able to execute it right?

00:38:38.200 --> 00:38:43.760
 And so I think I'm nervous that right now churches are not leveraging digital correctly.

00:38:43.760 --> 00:38:46.960
 And they're going to say, our people don't want a digital strategy because they didn't

00:38:46.960 --> 00:38:47.340
 do it.

00:38:47.460 --> 00:38:50.280
 And it really, it's not going to be because they didn't do it.

00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:51.660
 It's because you didn't do it right.

00:38:51.780 --> 00:38:55.180
 And I think it could be a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy.

00:38:55.340 --> 00:38:59.900
 So I think it's, I think people will, I think a lot of people will continue streaming their

00:38:59.900 --> 00:39:00.320
 services.

00:39:00.540 --> 00:39:02.880
 I'm just worried people won't stream more things.

00:39:03.060 --> 00:39:04.820
 They won't lean into online groups.

00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:05.480
 They'll pull back.

00:39:05.620 --> 00:39:08.460
 So like support groups, online support groups, I think make a lot of sense.

00:39:08.480 --> 00:39:10.540
 And I think a lot of people will go, you know what?

00:39:10.560 --> 00:39:11.400
 That was scary.

00:39:11.880 --> 00:39:12.660
 Let's not do that.

00:39:12.660 --> 00:39:17.100
 I don't think you need to make it for everybody, but I still think that like online counseling,

00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:22.460
 online crisis stuff, online support groups, I think that has a place digitally and, and

00:39:22.460 --> 00:39:26.280
 maybe it's 20% of your strategy, but I think a lot of people might go, you know what?

00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:33.260
 And pull back at least that's my, but if I put on my, my speculative hat, um, which, which

00:39:33.260 --> 00:39:37.140
 if you knew anything about my stock investing, you would know that it's probably not worth

00:39:37.140 --> 00:39:37.480
 a lot.

00:39:37.880 --> 00:39:41.160
 Uh, but, but ultimately I guess that's what I'm feeling.

00:39:41.200 --> 00:39:42.760
 I I'm a little nervous about that.

00:39:43.100 --> 00:39:43.460
 Yeah.

00:39:43.600 --> 00:39:44.540
 You know, it's funny.

00:39:44.540 --> 00:39:46.940
 Cause I, I lean a little bit more of the optimistic side.

00:39:46.940 --> 00:39:52.080
 And the reason is, is because, you know, I, I liken it kind of to what happened when, when

00:39:52.080 --> 00:39:55.700
 your lead pastor, when Rick Warren came out with purpose driven church, a lot of churches

00:39:55.700 --> 00:39:57.600
 tried it and they, and they tried it.

00:39:57.600 --> 00:39:58.560
 They quote unquote, tried it.

00:39:58.560 --> 00:40:00.440
 They didn't necessarily give into it.

00:40:00.440 --> 00:40:01.800
 They didn't build systems around it.

00:40:01.800 --> 00:40:04.940
 They didn't really try to move people through each of the five purposes.

00:40:04.940 --> 00:40:06.020
 They didn't really do that.

00:40:06.020 --> 00:40:09.860
 And so after, you know, six weeks of, Hey, we took our church through purpose driven

00:40:09.860 --> 00:40:10.200
 life.

00:40:10.300 --> 00:40:11.340
 We did X, Y, and Z.

00:40:11.380 --> 00:40:11.760
 And you know what?

00:40:11.780 --> 00:40:12.520
 Our church didn't grow.

00:40:12.640 --> 00:40:14.380
 Well, you still stayed in small groups.

00:40:14.380 --> 00:40:15.260
 You didn't funnel people.

00:40:15.320 --> 00:40:16.060
 You didn't have connections.

00:40:16.160 --> 00:40:18.360
 You didn't have systems in place to move people into the small groups.

00:40:18.360 --> 00:40:21.560
 Those who wanted to join those who wanted to get on board with some of this stuff.

00:40:21.880 --> 00:40:25.060
 You took a lot of people through it who wanted to get on board, but you never really had

00:40:25.060 --> 00:40:26.640
 the systems in place to get them there.

00:40:26.700 --> 00:40:28.300
 So it's not that it didn't work.

00:40:28.300 --> 00:40:30.780
 It's that you weren't really fully dedicated to the system.

00:40:31.100 --> 00:40:34.900
 And so that's kind of where I agree with you in a sense of, yeah, are some people going

00:40:34.900 --> 00:40:36.120
 to be critical of it on the back end?

00:40:36.260 --> 00:40:36.580
 Absolutely.

00:40:37.180 --> 00:40:40.300
 Do I see a lot of other people kind of like the elderly that we talked about on the front

00:40:40.300 --> 00:40:43.820
 end transitioning to churches that had a lot of those systems in place though?

00:40:44.220 --> 00:40:45.560
 Absolutely, I do.

00:40:45.900 --> 00:40:49.260
 Because now they're put into care systems where people are actually carrying on them

00:40:49.260 --> 00:40:52.020
 and loving on them in that one, six, seven space.

00:40:52.020 --> 00:40:55.040
 And not just in that hour and 15 or two hours on Sunday.

00:40:55.300 --> 00:40:57.980
 Now they've actually got church for real.

00:40:58.240 --> 00:41:02.700
 Like they've got a community of believers that are in their lives that care about them

00:41:02.700 --> 00:41:05.700
 as opposed to just, well, I sit in a pew and I sing from the hymnal.

00:41:05.820 --> 00:41:07.020
 It's the same hymnal every week.

00:41:07.020 --> 00:41:07.860
 And that's all we got.

00:41:08.060 --> 00:41:12.400
 Now they're actually going to have real people, tangible people in their lives that they can

00:41:12.400 --> 00:41:13.980
 go and visit, that can visit them.

00:41:14.400 --> 00:41:16.740
 And then this is the not so optimistic side.

00:41:17.100 --> 00:41:19.620
 There's still the fear factor of getting sick.

00:41:20.400 --> 00:41:25.420
 There's still that cloud that's going to loom over our nation and over a culture for quite

00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:29.900
 a while where I think even just going to church and seeing people in masks is going to be enough

00:41:29.900 --> 00:41:33.160
 to freak people out that they're going to say, you know what, I'd prefer to stay home.

00:41:33.160 --> 00:41:38.400
 I prefer to engage in digital spaces for now until I have some kind of normalcy back.

00:41:38.920 --> 00:41:42.880
 And so even though I agree like, hey, 9-11, eventually things went back to normal.

00:41:43.140 --> 00:41:48.320
 I still see because of cultural advancements and because of fear and even because of connection

00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:52.180
 on the positive side, I see a lot of the digital stuff hanging around and sticking.

00:41:55.120 --> 00:41:56.780
 Well said, well said.

00:41:57.060 --> 00:42:01.120
 Hey, yeah, so and I mentioned it briefly, Cary Newhoff, and I hate to like quote, well,

00:42:01.160 --> 00:42:06.120
 Cary Newhoff said, but it's interesting because actually I had several people email me Cary

00:42:06.120 --> 00:42:08.460
 Newhoff's most recent blog, we'll link to in the show notes.

00:42:08.900 --> 00:42:10.680
 It's like five predictions for the future.

00:42:11.280 --> 00:42:16.320
 And honestly, a lot of it has validated a lot of the things that I've been saying.

00:42:16.420 --> 00:42:21.080
 He's talking about how digital church is here to stay, church online in his context,

00:42:21.080 --> 00:42:25.420
 because when I say digital, I'm far more aggressive towards digital only, but to his

00:42:25.420 --> 00:42:28.320
 context, church online, digital church is here to stay.

00:42:29.020 --> 00:42:34.620
 Daily content was another thing that Cary said in his of how this is the opportunity for

00:42:34.620 --> 00:42:35.840
 church to be seven days a week.

00:42:36.660 --> 00:42:40.720
 Ray, to your end, I think there's an opportunity not just to be content, but to have community

00:42:40.720 --> 00:42:41.440
 around that.

00:42:41.520 --> 00:42:46.440
 And that's the thing that I think the church lesson that I'm learning, even mid-coronavirus

00:42:46.440 --> 00:42:50.060
 here, it's not enough to be content seven days a week, but to be community.

00:42:50.220 --> 00:42:56.620
 Acts 2, I recently wrote a blog on this last week about how we're content overload, but

00:42:56.620 --> 00:43:01.380
 we're really conversation starved because we're watching content, but we're not interacting

00:43:01.380 --> 00:43:01.860
 with people.

00:43:02.300 --> 00:43:06.020
 Create community online, not seven days a week, not just the content.

00:43:06.640 --> 00:43:07.440
 Work environment.

00:43:07.560 --> 00:43:12.160
 I got to tell you, I'm looking forward to having this mixed work environment where some

00:43:12.160 --> 00:43:17.620
 at home and some in the office, because I've had plenty of people tell me that they are

00:43:17.620 --> 00:43:21.260
 more productive in home environments as well.

00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.580
 This was interesting, and we'll pause here for a second.

00:43:25.000 --> 00:43:30.820
 He saw that multi-site, maybe it was going to have an issue here because people are more

00:43:30.820 --> 00:43:36.200
 likely to stay at home and engage instead of going to some of the multi-site campuses where

00:43:36.200 --> 00:43:36.780
 they're smaller.

00:43:36.780 --> 00:43:41.280
 They can't necessarily afford the 20% drop like a normal church would.

00:43:43.080 --> 00:43:44.080
 What's your spin?

00:43:44.280 --> 00:43:48.520
 And the fifth was sermon, and we can talk about sermon later, but sermon definitely is evolving

00:43:48.520 --> 00:43:49.120
 in this season.

00:43:49.560 --> 00:43:52.940
 But I'm just curious on the multi-site, and I'm not necessarily looking for mic drops either

00:43:52.940 --> 00:43:57.760
 here, but what do y'all's take towards multi-site and maybe struggling in this season?

00:43:58.240 --> 00:44:04.160
 Yeah, I guess I feel like a lot of our multi-site in our model, and I've seen this in other churches

00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:11.540
 as well, is that ultimately, the larger you are, the more neutral your language has to come from.

00:44:11.660 --> 00:44:17.580
 It has to feel like it's from this behemoth because you're ultimately thinking about everybody.

00:44:18.240 --> 00:44:23.360
 And I really have loved a lot of churches that have multi-site expressions thriving because

00:44:23.360 --> 00:44:29.460
 literally their pastor now has more time than ever to communicate to their community.

00:44:29.820 --> 00:44:35.480
 And so our church was doing stuff daily, and I just loved watching a lot of our campus pastors

00:44:35.480 --> 00:44:40.600
 just go live and upload videos and record stuff from their home and just figure out all that stuff.

00:44:41.060 --> 00:44:47.080
 So I actually, and I think ultimately that's the, within your church, the value of the multi-site,

00:44:47.380 --> 00:44:51.660
 depending on if you have live teaching or a pre-recorded type of thing.

00:44:51.660 --> 00:44:54.360
 You know, a lot of it comes down to that tight-knit community.

00:44:54.580 --> 00:44:59.520
 And ultimately, social media and online tactics are really good in that.

00:44:59.640 --> 00:45:02.920
 And so the idea is that I just have my message for our people.

00:45:03.040 --> 00:45:06.620
 And I think if you empower people, I actually think that this is a thriving opportunity.

00:45:06.760 --> 00:45:13.200
 Now, the question is, is the person who got hired at that multi-site location ready to,

00:45:13.200 --> 00:45:17.520
 you know, to actually be somebody to leverage these moments?

00:45:17.520 --> 00:45:21.280
 Cause I know I noticed that it's like, all of a sudden, like, you know, we had some people that

00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:25.660
 weren't really on social media and now in this time you have to be on social media.

00:45:25.860 --> 00:45:28.980
 This is the only way you could talk to your people and that could be uncomfortable.

00:45:28.980 --> 00:45:33.720
 So I do think it's, it's the same way if your multi-site tomorrow went to a live teaching

00:45:33.720 --> 00:45:38.020
 and you were a video also, but maybe you're not necessarily the person that can handle the

00:45:38.020 --> 00:45:38.540
 live teaching.

00:45:38.620 --> 00:45:43.460
 That's not a skill that you've built up, but I definitely think it's something that is

00:45:43.460 --> 00:45:46.120
 valuable, more valuable at a multi-site level.

00:45:46.120 --> 00:45:49.880
 Cause you could be more personal, more, you can be, you can kind of express the ethos

00:45:49.880 --> 00:45:51.840
 of whatever your campus is at that level.

00:45:52.880 --> 00:45:54.000
 Yeah, I agree with you, Jay.

00:45:54.120 --> 00:45:57.360
 I think there's a lot of need, you know, for campus pastors, especially, and we had the

00:45:57.360 --> 00:46:01.900
 same issue where campus pastors, a lot, all of our campus pastors had social media accounts.

00:46:02.060 --> 00:46:06.260
 Did they ever leverage them for the sake of connecting with their communities or whatever

00:46:06.260 --> 00:46:06.980
 prior to this?

00:46:07.080 --> 00:46:07.280
 No.

00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:13.640
 And so this was kind of a sharp learning lesson, like a real quick, have to hit left and take

00:46:13.640 --> 00:46:16.720
 a turn where, and even then we've had to encourage them.

00:46:16.820 --> 00:46:17.900
 All right, but not just content.

00:46:17.900 --> 00:46:21.780
 Once again, kind of like we flagged earlier, but also community side, make sure you're engaging

00:46:21.780 --> 00:46:24.820
 in the comments or you're talking with people that you're inviting them to take next steps.

00:46:24.900 --> 00:46:26.660
 You're doing those things as well.

00:46:26.740 --> 00:46:32.300
 I think that's crucial, but also there's something that, that I wonder about because I launched a

00:46:32.300 --> 00:46:36.880
 physical multi-site before I took on this job of being our, our online pastor.

00:46:37.300 --> 00:46:42.720
 And, you know, looking back and looking, or excuse me, looking back a little bit in terms

00:46:42.720 --> 00:46:46.360
 of the expenses that are there, and even then looking forward in the way that some of these

00:46:46.360 --> 00:46:52.400
 dynamics are changing the economy of church, I do wonder how, how ready churches are going

00:46:52.400 --> 00:46:57.920
 to be to jump into rental spaces for a lot of this, especially where real estate can be so high

00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:02.480
 when they know the potential for reach through digital avenues, and they know the potential

00:47:02.480 --> 00:47:06.480
 for community building early on onset before launching that physical location.

00:47:06.900 --> 00:47:11.820
 Um, I'm, I'm kind of hoping that a lot more churches who are kind of on the edge to transition

00:47:11.820 --> 00:47:16.640
 would merge through some of this with some of the multi-site churches to help alleviate

00:47:16.640 --> 00:47:19.060
 some of that stress, some of the financial burden that's there.

00:47:19.240 --> 00:47:23.760
 Not just because churches like, you know, Coral Christ Fellowship, Coral Gables that I helped

00:47:23.760 --> 00:47:25.860
 launch, you know, would have an opportunity.

00:47:26.040 --> 00:47:31.720
 But because, you know, specifically in, in cities, in areas like New York, LA, where Jay, where Jay's

00:47:31.720 --> 00:47:36.260
 at, you know, in Orange County, in that area, Miami, where I'm at, where real estate is so huge and so

00:47:36.260 --> 00:47:41.220
 expensive. And it's difficult for churches to stay physically in a space where they can gain from

00:47:41.220 --> 00:47:45.840
 that. That to me is a big deal. And then the last thing, Jeff, we flagged this before is the size of

00:47:45.840 --> 00:47:50.740
 the spaces that we think that we need. You know, I think in terms of advancement, we're not going to be

00:47:50.740 --> 00:47:55.800
 building these massive theaters anymore. I think this is going to help advance the fact that we're

00:47:55.800 --> 00:48:01.620
 going to build smaller, smaller rooms, but maybe more of them, you know, to help accommodate for the

00:48:01.620 --> 00:48:05.600
 needs of a specific community, recognizing that the digital environments can carry the bulk of the

00:48:05.600 --> 00:48:11.140
 load of larger spaces. There's certainly opportunities for the physical church to, to pivot through this.

00:48:11.140 --> 00:48:19.680
 And even to understand, you know, at the campus level, it's, it's far more relational in getting down

00:48:19.680 --> 00:48:25.520
 into that, even with multi-site churches that I work with, it's, it's, you know, the content, let, let central

00:48:25.520 --> 00:48:31.520
 run the content at the campus level, get, get relational, get, get down and dirty at that level and

00:48:31.520 --> 00:48:38.160
 understand that, you know, we're in the people business at that point. At the campus level, if we're

00:48:38.160 --> 00:48:44.240
 conversation starved, even in this coronavirus season, that's, this is our opportunity to, to engage at the, at the

00:48:44.240 --> 00:48:50.320
 campuses, uh, to really get into that. So, um, definitely love that. Well, I tell you what,

00:48:50.320 --> 00:48:53.360
 we're, we're going to wrap. This has been, this has been a great, once again, it's always a great

00:48:53.360 --> 00:48:59.360
 podcast when Jay, Jay Cranston's in the building. Love seeing Jay's, uh, face. You have to go to

00:48:59.360 --> 00:49:04.240
 YouTube. The way we're on YouTube, we never talk about YouTube and nobody ever follows me on YouTube.

00:49:04.240 --> 00:49:10.400
 But if you want to see Jay's face through this and see his awesome, um, seminary-like backdrop

00:49:10.400 --> 00:49:16.400
 that's not in a, uh, an actual library, go over to YouTube and you, you can see that and dissect it.

00:49:16.400 --> 00:49:22.080
 It's so dope. It is awesome. It's, it's, it's been great. We're just like, you know, raving out over here

00:49:22.080 --> 00:49:28.560
 looking at Jay's, uh, theological backdrop. Cool. Hey, so as we're landing the plane here after that awkward moment,

00:49:28.560 --> 00:49:34.800
 it's, Hey Ray, any thoughts as we're landing the plane here? Yeah. Um, leading into this, I honestly,

00:49:34.800 --> 00:49:38.880
 I let, I went into this season with the spirit of fear, you know, with the disease and everything

00:49:38.880 --> 00:49:44.680
 kind of looming over us as a heavy cloud, like many of you did. And even kind of watching as to how

00:49:44.680 --> 00:49:50.920
 churches were going to transition into these spaces. I'm super encouraged by the ones that have at least

00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:56.880
 tried. And I think that's something, you know, to be celebrated now coming out of it. Are we going to

00:49:56.880 --> 00:50:00.720
 embrace the physical and digital? That's a question that we've all got to answer together

00:50:00.720 --> 00:50:05.060
 and how we're going to embrace that. I've always been encouraged by how Jay and Jeff have led the

00:50:05.060 --> 00:50:09.680
 way and pioneered in so many ways and providing resources for, for churches to navigate those

00:50:09.680 --> 00:50:13.360
 questions. And so if you've not yet checked out some of Jay's tools in terms of how to launch

00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:18.040
 small groups online, how to do that, I want to encourage you to just, you know, take about a half

00:50:18.040 --> 00:50:22.700
 hour and plug in with some of those videos and, and dive into it and start to ask yourself, man,

00:50:22.700 --> 00:50:27.440
 am I concerned with the community aspects of my church right now? Or am I just worried about

00:50:27.440 --> 00:50:32.220
 getting a message out to them every week? Because that community question, that's going to change

00:50:32.220 --> 00:50:36.500
 everything for you in terms of your digital experience. Jay is right. And that this could be

00:50:36.500 --> 00:50:41.420
 something that, Hey, it's just a fleeting moment for your church, unless you leverage it for all of

00:50:41.420 --> 00:50:47.540
 its potential. Awesome. Well said by the way, Jay, jacranda.com. I think that's the website.

00:50:47.540 --> 00:50:51.600
 Is Jay Cranda your social media? Like how can people follow up with you, Jay?

00:50:51.660 --> 00:50:55.940
 Yeah. Yeah. Just Jay Cranda. Just create all, all the accounts. They're all the same.

00:50:56.020 --> 00:50:58.400
 Jay Cranda all over the place. You know what?

00:50:58.420 --> 00:51:00.500
 There's not a lot. There's not a lot of us. So.

00:51:01.160 --> 00:51:05.480
 Hey, and you should hit him up on Tik TOK. Jay Cranda on Tik TOK.

00:51:05.940 --> 00:51:09.060
 Oh, I don't even know if I'm on that. That's a good question. I have an account.

00:51:09.060 --> 00:51:09.740
 Oh, I'm going to follow.

00:51:10.740 --> 00:51:16.680
 That's a question. You told me before you had an account. So you lied in a previous podcast.

00:51:17.160 --> 00:51:24.080
 Well, I have, the question is, is that I don't know what my username is. So I think I have it. So

00:51:24.080 --> 00:51:30.660
 that's a good question. I would say, Jeff, for my, my closing thought would be to encourage

00:51:30.660 --> 00:51:37.780
 churches and leaders, you know, within, within those churches with your leadership is this is

00:51:37.780 --> 00:51:43.720
 the time to experiment with all your ideas. So if you've got an idea that you want to experiment

00:51:43.720 --> 00:51:49.660
 with digitally, this is the time to test it because your leadership is at least got some interest.

00:51:50.080 --> 00:51:54.620
 So do not, if you're like, I want to try out this thing digitally and you're doing it six months from

00:51:54.620 --> 00:51:59.340
 now, you've missed it. You've totally missed the point. So whatever you want to do, try it out and

00:51:59.340 --> 00:52:04.000
 put it under the, the umbrella or the, you know, the everything about we're testing this out. So

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:08.300
 online membership, we want to test out online membership. Hey, can we test this out right

00:52:08.300 --> 00:52:13.100
 now? We're not going to, let's just do small things. Let's just try it out in a beta form,

00:52:13.220 --> 00:52:19.500
 but this is the time. Make your asks now. Do not wait till later. So I think that would be my

00:52:19.500 --> 00:52:25.100
 encouragement. Yeah. By the way, if, if you're not in a faith, talking about experimenting and even

00:52:25.100 --> 00:52:30.680
 just getting feedback that are on this road, if you're not in a Facebook group, um, talking and

00:52:30.680 --> 00:52:36.540
 talking through some of the stuff, you really should be a lot of the, the best wisdom and experience from

00:52:36.540 --> 00:52:41.280
 guys that are doing this guys and gals who are doing this, you know, um, I'm hearing coming out

00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:46.320
 of Facebook groups. So I know I started one at either short link is that the church.digital slash

00:52:46.320 --> 00:52:51.640
 FB for Facebook. And so that'll redirect to, to one that I'm doing with stadia. I know there's a,

00:52:51.740 --> 00:52:57.320
 um, uh, online digital tools. And if you hit me up on Facebook, I can point you that way.

00:52:57.460 --> 00:53:04.480
 And the.com man, I don't know how you generate so much like video content on, on YouTube. I'm always

00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:10.080
 shocked at how much stuff you're, you're turning around just the one man shop making that happen,

00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:15.320
 but he's definitely a good follow there with, with the YouTube stuff. And not to mention,

00:53:15.320 --> 00:53:19.340
 I mean, crap, five years ago, seven years ago, when I started on this road, I didn't know what I was

00:53:19.340 --> 00:53:24.780
 doing. And, uh, Jay was one of the voices for me, honestly, that just started speaking into,

00:53:24.780 --> 00:53:29.160
 into me and saying, Hey, there's this thing called online to offline. Have you heard of it?

00:53:29.540 --> 00:53:34.260
 And honestly, that one philosophy and whether he takes credit or not for saying it revolutionized

00:53:34.260 --> 00:53:39.840
 my view of church and others as well. And so you go back to earlier podcasts, if you go back to episode

00:53:39.840 --> 00:53:47.060
 three, I think it's was, was the first who Jay Cranda, the OG. And so you can catch up with that

00:53:47.060 --> 00:53:52.680
 and listen to it. But as, as, as you, as you tell me the least listened to episode, by the way,

00:53:52.680 --> 00:53:57.240
 you've told me last time we were on. So, so I edited this story. We need more views for it. We need

00:53:57.240 --> 00:54:02.180
 more listens. People help Jay out. Come on. Listen, audience, I'm going to be completely honest right

00:54:02.180 --> 00:54:07.140
 now. And this, I cut this out in an earlier podcast because it was inappropriate, but he's brought it up

00:54:07.140 --> 00:54:13.520
 again. So let's actually really tell the story. Jay Cranda is the least listened episode I have at the

00:54:13.520 --> 00:54:20.060
 church digital today. Um, I don't think it's related to Jay Cranda because Jay Cranda, another episode

00:54:20.060 --> 00:54:26.420
 that we did later on was actually very high, but I launched four episodes at the exact same day when

00:54:26.420 --> 00:54:31.320
 we launched this thing, by the way, our one year anniversary is like coming up in, in a couple of

00:54:31.320 --> 00:54:35.680
 days. And so our one year anniversary, we're, we're bringing in somebody we're going to launch on

00:54:35.680 --> 00:54:40.580
 Thursday. It's going to be awesome. One year anniversary coming up. But with Jay, we launched

00:54:40.580 --> 00:54:46.060
 four episodes in a row. Episode one, episode two, we're heavily listened to episode four, which was

00:54:46.060 --> 00:54:52.100
 the top one in the podcast. When people downloaded it is heavily listened to my man, Jay gets no love

00:54:52.100 --> 00:54:57.520
 whatsoever. Nobody listens to his podcast. I'm like, it's Jay freaking Cranda. Why does nobody listen to

00:54:57.520 --> 00:55:06.620
 this podcast? I had, I had, I totally thought like I texted you a day later. I had an idea of why that

00:55:06.620 --> 00:55:12.240
 happened, but I still, you like it, like it, but I know you released a bunch at once, but it still

00:55:12.240 --> 00:55:17.300
 cracks me up. Oh yeah. It's, it's, it's totally, it's, I should have launched three. Maybe I should

00:55:17.300 --> 00:55:22.000
 have just launched two, but I was really excited to do this podcast thing. And I can't believe we made

00:55:22.000 --> 00:55:26.720
 like 60 plus here. This is awesome. When your anniversary coming up. So here's what I want you to do.

00:55:26.720 --> 00:55:33.820
 Listening audience, stop this podcast, go back to your app, scroll down, find episode three, Jay

00:55:33.820 --> 00:55:39.500
 Cranda. By the way, I'm not saying that episode is better than this episode, but it's, no, it's,

00:55:39.540 --> 00:55:44.960
 it's, it's a really good one. Check it out. Listen to it and just show some love to my friend Jay. So

00:55:44.960 --> 00:55:52.100
 he's no longer the least listened to episode of the church digital. I mean, he's too smart to be at the

00:55:52.100 --> 00:55:59.760
 bottom. He just, he really is. Give Jay a chance. This is a great way to end. This is a great way

00:55:59.760 --> 00:56:04.860
 to end. Jay, it was great having you on the podcast. I hope we have many more before you kill Jeff Reed.

00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:12.180
 But yeah. Awesome. Hey, so for Ray, for Jay, this is Jeff for the church digital. Thanks for being

00:56:12.180 --> 00:56:14.620
 here and we'll see you next time here on the podcast. Y'all have a good day.