WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.740 episode 63 of the church digital podcast powered by stadia church planting hey this is our one 00:00:06.740 --> 00:00:12.680 year anniversary the podcast we've literally been doing this for one year now it's a weekly podcast 00:00:12.680 --> 00:00:18.240 i'm going to do bad math here we're on episode 63 52 weeks out of the year okay so during 00:00:18.240 --> 00:00:22.900 coronavirus we've been a little hyped up and we've done a lot of podcasts like two to three a week 00:00:22.900 --> 00:00:28.540 it's been a lot of fun and the reason honestly that we're doing so much podcast is a you guys 00:00:28.540 --> 00:00:35.140 are eating it up and engagement's been awesome but on top of that there's so much to talk about 00:00:35.140 --> 00:00:39.800 and there's so much that i personally am experiencing talking to individual churches 00:00:39.800 --> 00:00:44.460 looking at what's happening online where our attention points are where our successes where 00:00:44.460 --> 00:00:50.340 our wins where areas of improvement i just i want to share it so yeah we're on episode 63 00:00:50.340 --> 00:00:57.360 over a stretch of 52 weeks that's awesome this is a really interesting podcast it's it's it's a little 00:00:57.360 --> 00:01:04.080 bit of a topic and i was nervous of how it was going to come out um but i'm really really glad we did it 00:01:04.080 --> 00:01:10.680 i'm going to be honest um church we're struggling to keep up like and let's let's just talk about it 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:17.060 let's embrace it because chances are people on your church staff if it's like the majority of churches 00:01:17.060 --> 00:01:24.660 that i've been talking with um we're all struggling keeping up and and more often than not staff seem to 00:01:24.660 --> 00:01:32.100 be close to breaking points i've already seen uh several uh emotional breaks across several churches 00:01:32.100 --> 00:01:37.420 in the amount of time in this covet season because let's be honest we're trying to take this 00:01:37.420 --> 00:01:43.840 physical church model of creating content and instead of doing that one hour on sunday we're trying to do that 00:01:43.840 --> 00:01:50.720 one hour sunday stretched across seven days a week maybe even multiple times a day seven days a week 00:01:50.720 --> 00:01:56.160 and there's pros and cons to that and i don't even want to get into the philosophy because that that's 00:01:56.160 --> 00:02:02.320 not the point of this podcast what i do want to get into is how is it affecting our souls not not the 00:02:02.320 --> 00:02:10.160 not the listeners us as pastors us as church staff us as the people who are are pastoring who are 00:02:10.160 --> 00:02:18.080 shepherding who are passionately caring for people in this environment because while the god is breaking 00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:24.160 the church model not church but the model of church that we're doing while god's breaking it in this season 00:02:24.880 --> 00:02:34.080 inadvertently we ourselves are being broken by the same process and we church we pastors we church staff 00:02:34.080 --> 00:02:39.840 we have an opportunity to respond in different ways and this this is really the heart of the 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:46.160 conversation that i wanted to get into with this podcast so we're bringing in um somebody who i have 00:02:46.160 --> 00:02:54.240 immense respect for in this area mindy callaguire so mindy um has an organization she works with called 00:02:54.240 --> 00:03:01.360 soul care it's not all she does she's former willow creek used to uh she's uh very heavily involved 00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:06.960 with glue as well as a number of she's on staff with glue and is involved with a number of other 00:03:06.960 --> 00:03:13.600 non-profits and so she's uh very well spoken in a number of different leadership and ministry areas 00:03:14.160 --> 00:03:22.240 but her passion as near as i can tell comes into this area of caring for souls caring for staffs for 00:03:22.240 --> 00:03:28.480 pastors uh in this area well written uh and on this topic as well over the years those you used to know 00:03:28.480 --> 00:03:34.640 me from the bookstore i sold her books at the bookstore like so she is is well versed in this area 00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:41.120 and it has been an honor for me in recent weeks and months to get to know her better and even as 00:03:41.120 --> 00:03:46.960 as i've learned how to adjust my ministry the ministry of the church digital the ministry through stadia 00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:53.360 church planning how i've adjusted that in context to some of the guidance uh through stadia as well as 00:03:53.360 --> 00:04:00.000 through soul care so i am super glad that you guys are here in this and i'm honored to have mindy be 00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:05.840 the one year anniversary episode here at the church digital podcast so here you go bringing in mindy 00:04:05.840 --> 00:04:11.520 calaguire from soul care um a number of different organizations as well as myself jeff with the 00:04:11.520 --> 00:04:17.040 church digital and a conversation that i'm calling soul care and the freedom of letting go all right 00:04:17.040 --> 00:04:23.920 everybody here you go i really want to dive into um you know not to use the the catchphrase but but 00:04:23.920 --> 00:04:29.280 it's soul care so we're in this coronavirus season but i don't even think it has to be about coronavirus 00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:36.240 we we as as pastors as staff um you know so often we're we're in this burn the ship mentality there's 00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:41.040 a service every sunday there's always urgent needs we're always engaging with people we're getting calls 00:04:41.040 --> 00:04:49.360 after hours we're working with volunteers um and just at a sensitive level um you know there there's 00:04:49.360 --> 00:04:56.400 literally i just blogged it 2011 holy week i worked 98 hours my wife had just come out of the urgent 00:04:56.400 --> 00:05:02.960 emergency room off of having a tia stroke we had two kids under the age of three there was literally no 00:05:02.960 --> 00:05:09.520 one else on staff and and after that happened i'm working 98 hours my wife didn't love me my kids 00:05:09.520 --> 00:05:18.080 literally didn't know my name um and what should have been this this just honoring of god production 00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:25.680 that i created uh across five campuses i don't know 30 plus services um was actually the low point of my 00:05:25.680 --> 00:05:32.000 life because i did everything but honor god because it cost uh it cost my marriage it cost so much more 00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:40.080 than what the the ministry was and so there there's there's this tension i can tell you within the uh 00:05:40.080 --> 00:05:46.640 the online pastors i actually had a meeting with some online pastors the other day and the and somebody 00:05:46.640 --> 00:05:51.040 said okay so what's the number three or four and i just kind of looked at him we're like what are you 00:05:51.040 --> 00:05:55.760 talking about like what's the number three or four um and and i was like i have literally have no idea 00:05:55.760 --> 00:06:01.360 what you're asking me how many hours of sleep are you getting a night three or four and and and 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:08.080 the average consensus in the room was four a couple were five at the point i was six but there there 00:06:08.080 --> 00:06:15.920 are still like three three hour people and that's not a that's not a healthy place to be no but in 00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:22.240 the season of of coronavirus there's there's urgency behind it there's infrastructures that aren't in 00:06:22.240 --> 00:06:27.760 place and it's so easy like even with my own life it's all right i gotta flip it it's just gonna be a 00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:34.560 season and and i'm gonna burn out here uh because i've got to meet this need but then when i look at 00:06:34.560 --> 00:06:41.120 like my wife and my kids who are like okay it's good for a season but then they start hitting the 00:06:41.120 --> 00:06:46.320 proverbial wall before i hit the proverbial wall tensions start to get high and my kids are learning 00:06:46.320 --> 00:06:51.760 the lesson that daddy cares more about ministry than he does me which dear god let not be the 00:06:51.760 --> 00:07:00.560 lesson that my kids learned from me in the season boundaries tensions like how how do we as staff kind 00:07:00.560 --> 00:07:05.920 of manage through stuff like this because it's not just me that's feeling this especially in this holy 00:07:05.920 --> 00:07:14.480 week that we're going through how how do we survive how do we thrive how do we manage some of these 00:07:14.480 --> 00:07:21.600 things from from an employee level like there were seasons back in the 2011 i was afraid if i didn't 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:27.760 give the 98 hours i was going to lose my job and and my wife even understood at that point she's like 00:07:27.760 --> 00:07:32.800 you got to do what you got to do because you don't want to get fired maybe getting fired actually would 00:07:32.800 --> 00:07:36.320 have been the best thing for me in that time because it would have enabled me to have this 00:07:37.920 --> 00:07:46.880 with with my with my family yeah and so yeah like what hearing all that like what what thoughts do you 00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:51.920 have for for someone like me or someone else that that's out there because this tension is something 00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:57.920 that we're all especially in this coronavirus season and post as we try to figure out how to rebuild 00:07:57.920 --> 00:08:06.640 church what advice do you have yeah well that's a huge open open question uh and i want to validate 00:08:06.640 --> 00:08:12.080 what you're saying and describing and maybe share a little of my own experience as well before getting 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:20.080 into a more practical thing which we can definitely do but um my church that i'm part of right now uh has 00:08:21.040 --> 00:08:27.280 i i talked to our senior pastor a couple maybe a week ago and he said that the staff had not taken 00:08:27.280 --> 00:08:34.000 a day off in three weeks as they're scrambling to redo everything and they're pretty attuned to the 00:08:34.000 --> 00:08:38.320 need for their own souls i hope they're getting more sleep than you were describing was the 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:46.960 average of the people on your call but they uh they're they're definitely struggling and and our church 00:08:46.960 --> 00:08:53.040 had had had had to right there's there's this moment of like okay it can't go on like this forever but if 00:08:53.040 --> 00:08:58.640 if something doesn't change in the next 24 hours we're not gonna be able to connect with our community 00:08:58.640 --> 00:09:05.840 so i i definitely understand the urgency and the the seriousness with which um pastors and leaders are 00:09:05.840 --> 00:09:15.920 struggling with this issue and my my context prior to this did not involve any um a global reversal of how 00:09:15.920 --> 00:09:21.760 church was happening and everyone having to scramble accordingly but i think you know you know a little 00:09:21.760 --> 00:09:27.680 bit about my own story but i my husband i were church planting in boston in the early 90s and 00:09:27.680 --> 00:09:35.920 everything that i believe about the care of the soul and how to lead your own soul um for soul health and 00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:42.800 then create cultures and systems that allow team members to thrive and not just like get burned out 00:09:43.440 --> 00:09:51.680 um came from the really hard tragedies of that day now that day that moment that season of my life 00:09:51.680 --> 00:09:58.560 um so more about that i can say if that's ever helpful but it was enough of a serious wake-up call 00:09:58.560 --> 00:10:06.160 uh you used the phrase uh before before we started about becoming in touch with one's mortality and for 00:10:06.160 --> 00:10:16.720 me that was absolutely the case i was 29 years old when i lost my ability to do most anything and um 00:10:16.720 --> 00:10:23.200 you know was holding various huge responsibilities for our tiny little church uh we weren't running 30 00:10:23.200 --> 00:10:31.760 services or anything but um we've maybe had 30 people most weekends but but um but all the things 00:10:31.760 --> 00:10:35.840 behind the scenes all the finances all the communications i was leading probably three 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:41.120 different small groups and just holding all that together my husband was in a really rough place 00:10:41.120 --> 00:10:47.280 that he's written about you've met jeff uh since um he's written about it since but he you know was 00:10:47.280 --> 00:10:51.920 struggling with probably a pure straight-up depression and i think there's probably a lot of pastors right 00:10:51.920 --> 00:11:00.880 now who coronavirus virus has caused a very inconvenient exacerbation of what was already an underlying 00:11:00.880 --> 00:11:07.120 malaise of some pretty deep on health that was probably just barely below the surface of making it if 00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:13.840 if the data that's come to us from studies like this one on resilient ministry i don't know if you're 00:11:13.840 --> 00:11:20.800 familiar with that no came out of a body of research that the lily foundation had done okay it's a really 00:11:20.800 --> 00:11:28.400 uh a pretty strong uh compelling case uh bottom uh subtitle says what pastors told us about surviving and 00:11:28.400 --> 00:11:35.840 thriving so those very words you were using earlier and a really significant body of research and came up 00:11:35.840 --> 00:11:44.560 with five characteristics of pastors that make it and that are always there and present when people are 00:11:44.560 --> 00:11:50.800 resilient to the ups and downs of ministry as we've always known it in the past uh and when those things 00:11:50.800 --> 00:11:57.840 are absent uh it's really difficult to stay stay the course and so if you can imagine that many pastors 00:11:58.560 --> 00:12:05.920 around the country around the world we're already at a pretty unworkable pace unworkable system of 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:14.800 how do i know if i'm successful how do i balance needs of my family etc etc um this i'm sure has has 00:12:14.800 --> 00:12:24.080 created a whole next level of chaos i've wondered how many pastors uh have have felt like they finally get a 00:12:24.080 --> 00:12:29.520 chance to rethink everything because there was never an excuse to rethink everything when you're just 00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:35.360 accountable to your leaders or your denomination or whatever and there's never a moment to go this is 00:12:35.360 --> 00:12:43.520 crazy we should think about something new so i'm hopeful that in the middle of a terrible circumstance 00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:51.520 that's impacting our entire world my hope is that this is giving the body of christ some pause even 00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:58.880 as we're working to get online some pause on what it is we're really trying to do in the body of christ 00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:05.520 what pastors are fundamentally called to toward their people so there's a moment for that but a lot of 00:13:05.520 --> 00:13:11.440 probably the people on the call are just exhausted right now and not really necessarily thinking big 00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:16.960 aspirational things i know i i serve on the the leadership team of our church here in in lewisville 00:13:16.960 --> 00:13:25.520 colorado as a as a volunteer uh it's our sort of the equivalent of elders and the uh we had a meeting 00:13:25.520 --> 00:13:29.760 on sunday night virtually obviously and we were doing the same thing only usually we go through 00:13:29.760 --> 00:13:35.760 numbers about the finances and attendance and now it's like well how do we measure attendance you know 00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:40.560 i think our pastor was in on your facebook group which was great thank you for answering his questions 00:13:41.120 --> 00:13:49.280 um and and having completely new conversations about what what the direction of the church will be but at the 00:13:49.280 --> 00:13:55.920 very end tail end of the night we probably spent another 40 minutes just sort of starting to dream 00:13:55.920 --> 00:14:03.360 like if we imagine the day six months 18 months from now we don't know what it is but how how might 00:14:03.920 --> 00:14:09.920 who we are be different right anyway those are other questions but back to your main question about how to 00:14:11.200 --> 00:14:21.040 i i do i get so excited about maybe new wineskins being formed that help the message of the kingdom 00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:29.440 get to people's hearts and souls in ways that are different than what the last 50 years 70 100 years 00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:37.280 have been mostly marked by large one-to-many gatherings that have left usually some level of discipleship 00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:46.080 and evangelism a little bit outside the walls of that experience notable exceptions but by and large and 00:14:46.080 --> 00:14:53.200 what if this mash-up this incoherent moment that we're in opens some new doors to that and i know 00:14:53.200 --> 00:15:00.400 that's what you're excited about as well but back to the question at hand um and in part because i so 00:15:00.400 --> 00:15:07.760 greatly value and treasure that future vision for the church i can't ask your listeners our listeners 00:15:08.640 --> 00:15:15.360 more uh than i ever have in all of my years of ministry with soul care to please prioritize the 00:15:15.360 --> 00:15:27.360 well-being of your own soul the only way we get to those reserves those quiet levels of listening to 00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:36.800 god's direction for the future the courage to innovate to do something new the headspace to get out of the 00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:45.360 way we've always done it even to move against fear uh all of that only emerges out of a healthy soul 00:15:45.360 --> 00:15:51.200 is only going to come when we are deeply connected to god as our real time in the moment source of life 00:15:51.840 --> 00:16:00.240 and that is that is what has been on offer since the first century as jesus you know here we are in holy 00:16:00.240 --> 00:16:09.280 week it was the last supper when in john 15 he and beyond he was introducing a new way of being 00:16:10.960 --> 00:16:17.360 for once he was no longer physically present and that is so significant to us in our day 00:16:18.400 --> 00:16:23.040 as it was to them he's on the verge of his departure which of course they don't 00:16:23.040 --> 00:16:29.680 couldn't fully understand nor would we have if we were had been there but he is telling them look there 00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:38.480 is going to be a new way of of being with me from which you can receive your life i am that vine i am that 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:45.840 source you are branches and if you remain if you remain connected to me not if you know truth about 00:16:45.840 --> 00:16:51.760 me not if you study the bible really hard about me not if you in your head can analyze things really 00:16:51.760 --> 00:16:59.840 well if you remain in me connect it imagine this here's a here's a vine it's in the ground it in 00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:07.760 and of itself has life and that connection is like this and when that connection allows this this is so 00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:13.120 crazy to air draw this but to from that life source of my elbow rooted into the ground 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:22.160 the flow through this point of connection and out here that is where fruit is born that's where courage 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:29.040 is expressed that's where love and forgiveness and generosity and all those things gifting teaching 00:17:29.600 --> 00:17:37.520 evangelism all those spiritual gifts they are a manifestation of god's spirit being at work in us 00:17:37.520 --> 00:17:44.000 right and through us what happens when life gets hard and we get running and gunning and all of a sudden 00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:50.000 we haven't had a day off in three weeks and we all that we just disconnect we don't mean to 00:17:50.880 --> 00:17:59.760 it's it's benign none of our none of our truths or beliefs about god have changed one bit we still would 00:17:59.760 --> 00:18:07.040 probably most pastors truly take a bullet for what they believe and know to be true and i that sounds 00:18:07.040 --> 00:18:14.480 maybe crass but i don't mean that in any trite way there is an unwavering devotion to the truth of 00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:22.560 who god is to the mission of the gospel to the calling on their life right that stuff is sort of out here 00:18:23.520 --> 00:18:31.520 but when when we've disconnected we've lost our source we've lost our energy and then we start 00:18:31.520 --> 00:18:38.320 doing really weird stuff out here we lose our capacity for courage we lose our willingness to 00:18:38.320 --> 00:18:48.480 be patient or loving or to focus on um on someone else's goals rather than our own agenda right there's 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:55.280 so many dark things that start to dominate when we've lost that connection and that reconnection and 00:18:55.280 --> 00:19:00.640 and why it's so interesting to me that in that last supper jesus returns to that metaphor again and 00:19:00.640 --> 00:19:06.560 again and again right remain in me and you'll bear much fruit apart from me apart from me you can do 00:19:06.560 --> 00:19:14.000 nothing right and you know why why did he keep saying that over and over again it's like can you imagine 00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:18.080 like you know sending your kid off to college or if you went off to college and you go out to 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:25.360 dinner with your mom and dad uh and you know everyone has cell phones now but imagine that 00:19:25.360 --> 00:19:31.200 they had a way to say at dinner slide me across the table here's a cell phone or special line to get 00:19:31.200 --> 00:19:38.640 in touch with me you know call me call me whenever you need it call me and you know six times during 00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:45.280 the same dinner you'd be like okay i get it how many times during that last supper did jesus return to this 00:19:45.280 --> 00:19:55.360 metaphor wow on the eve of his actual no longer being present with us or with them but putting into 00:19:55.360 --> 00:20:03.040 motion a way of us relating to god ever more because of the cross because of the resurrection 00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:09.120 because of the indwelling of the holy spirit so when i think about what it means to care for your soul 00:20:09.120 --> 00:20:14.880 and we can get into practical ways to do that but guys nothing matters as much as deciding that you 00:20:14.880 --> 00:20:21.200 want to live like this connected in real time so even as you're listening to me right now you can at 00:20:21.200 --> 00:20:27.760 the same time be saying hey god thank you thank you for this day thank you for what's going on uh around 00:20:27.760 --> 00:20:33.680 us we don't understand it thank you that you've given me these volunteers or leaders or people to shepherd 00:20:33.680 --> 00:20:40.320 thank you for my family anything you want to be want me to hear through what mindy and jeff were talking 00:20:40.320 --> 00:20:47.280 about today we can be prayerful and the minute we do that it's as intimate as the air we're breathing 00:20:47.280 --> 00:20:53.600 the stuff around us we're right back in a place of connection anyway so i'm talking a lot but that's 00:20:53.600 --> 00:20:59.760 what i think about is soul care jeff it's like staying connected there's a lot of humility at that 00:20:59.760 --> 00:21:05.200 point right because you know so often and i'm guilty of this i'll make it about me there there have been 00:21:05.200 --> 00:21:11.200 seasons of my life where i got my identity out of my ministry uh it was an area that i loved i was 00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:17.520 passionate about it i i saw the world differently and and all of a sudden i found myself serving in 00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:27.280 this i i i i world instead of um being humble and broken before god to reshape me in the way that he 00:21:27.280 --> 00:21:32.480 wanted and i fought for the things that i wanted instead of even taking the time to ask god is this 00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:38.960 is this what you want and and as a result i found myself like working hard to create this this ministry 00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:45.600 and these opportunities that may have been more self-directed than than god focused so what what 00:21:45.600 --> 00:21:53.200 does that that tension of humility look like while we're trying to take care of ourselves if it's all about 00:21:53.200 --> 00:22:01.280 us we won't have a felt need to connect with god because we will believe that we in and of ourselves have the 00:22:01.280 --> 00:22:15.360 answers and i find that the closer we come to that enduring connection with god the more natural humility 00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:22.160 actually is because we have greater awareness of our brokenness our limitations we're more honest with 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:30.880 ourselves and it's one of the sort of deaths i think that we die is to the the idols that we hold 00:22:30.880 --> 00:22:39.760 some of which are building our own kingdom um but those things uh they they start to look comical even 00:22:39.760 --> 00:22:47.440 when we're connecting with god it's like oh really that's that's your uh that's your top priority 00:22:48.000 --> 00:22:52.880 oh really you you know how to bring this church uh through coronavirus and you don't need any help 00:22:52.880 --> 00:22:57.680 all right that's up to you you know those are the kinds of things that i think god has a great sense 00:22:57.680 --> 00:23:05.680 of humor but it's just like all right that's that's your call you you get to choose but i think that the 00:23:05.680 --> 00:23:14.000 delight the joy the we're we're we're made for humility we're made to have a right-sized view of 00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:20.000 ourselves and to relate to others in great love and freedom when we have a right-sized view of ourselves 00:23:20.000 --> 00:23:27.200 when we have a disoriented heart or a false self that we're bringing into the world that could look 00:23:27.200 --> 00:23:32.800 very prideful very chest-pounding you know all the things that we see uh in the research around 00:23:32.800 --> 00:23:40.320 narcissism is that uh people who exhibit narcissistic traits which is a character disorder it's a terrible 00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:48.320 it's really thought of as a as a disease uh it is people who have that disorder are suffering terribly 00:23:48.320 --> 00:23:57.440 they are terrified inside they deal with tremendous levels of shame and guilt and it's not to be taken 00:23:57.440 --> 00:24:06.080 lightly if if you're finding yourself in that place that looks like the characteristics of that because 00:24:06.720 --> 00:24:13.280 certainly god can heal us and free us um all of us have that we're all on that continuum at some level 00:24:14.080 --> 00:24:22.960 but oh jeff the the joy and freedom that comes from humility is incredible because then you just get to 00:24:22.960 --> 00:24:34.240 be an ordinary human being and uh and god gets to be god and when we are rightly ordered in our minds 00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:41.200 about who god is and who we are we i don't need to have a negative view of myself i don't i have a i think a 00:24:41.200 --> 00:24:50.080 a right-sized view of myself um and that's one that god loves and is wild about but it's not an over 00:24:50.080 --> 00:24:57.120 inflated view of myself and i don't i think one of the lessons i learned in uh in boston when everything 00:24:57.120 --> 00:25:05.360 fell apart was it one of the things that i i'm wired with is pretty high uh i don't know i'm pretty 00:25:05.360 --> 00:25:15.360 analytical i can i think a lot i am fast mentally and all those kind of things and i think i realized 00:25:15.360 --> 00:25:24.560 that the crisis that i had gotten myself into was in many ways the exact result of how i had been living 00:25:25.200 --> 00:25:34.640 with an over inflated view of my own views of my thinking and uh with the help of some friends who 00:25:34.640 --> 00:25:43.360 were in my small group at that time and uh had been part of 12-step communities i came to understand the 00:25:45.040 --> 00:25:51.520 the fallacy of depending too heavily on my perspective of what was even real 00:25:53.280 --> 00:25:58.480 i had made a lot of decisions based on what i thought was real and i had landed myself exactly 00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:10.400 in a very very unhealthy unworkable place and it was a refreshing if a little bit of a blow to humility 00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:17.200 or to pride um which is a grace when that happens uh it was a it was a hard realization to come to 00:26:18.400 --> 00:26:26.560 and i i i think i still hold to it is that my sense of what i think is real is inherently flawed 00:26:28.160 --> 00:26:35.040 it's inherently flawed and that doesn't mean i'm a bad person it doesn't mean god doesn't love me and 00:26:35.040 --> 00:26:43.680 can't use me i just i see through a glass dimly i do not see i certainly don't see the future i barely 00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:47.440 understand the reality of the past if you think of that movie what was it called vantage point 00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:52.000 that showed the same incident from like eight different perspectives it's like 00:26:52.640 --> 00:26:58.800 i don't have every perspective i can't and that's just the logical constraints never mind 00:26:59.840 --> 00:27:06.800 the the brokenness that i bring to what i think i see so humility is the freest place in the whole 00:27:06.800 --> 00:27:17.520 world i highly commend a path toward uh toward free and willing surrender and humility um andrew murray that 00:27:17.520 --> 00:27:26.320 little tiny book he wrote i think in the 1800s on humility is just delightful um if anybody's looking 00:27:26.320 --> 00:27:34.160 for a resource on that uh it's um it's challenging you read it and go wow this is i want to aspire to this 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:44.960 this kind of a life um so yeah we uh we are free to the extent to which we have a right-sized uh view 00:27:44.960 --> 00:27:53.680 of ourselves and god and i think under those circumstances the more free we are the more okay 00:27:53.680 --> 00:28:01.280 we are with just being who we are uh the more available we are for god to work through us in some pretty 00:28:01.280 --> 00:28:09.200 powerful ways i'm thinking of there was a time um i was can i tell a silly story go for it uh yeah it 00:28:09.200 --> 00:28:15.120 won't take too long but i was asked to when i first joined the staff of willow creek i was working for 00:28:15.120 --> 00:28:20.400 john orberg in spiritual formation and he and ruth haley barton had just published through the willow 00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:28.880 creek association of course called an ordinary day with jesus and ruth had left the staff to join or to 00:28:28.880 --> 00:28:36.320 found the transforming center which is an amazing ministry and i as sort of the person who inherited 00:28:36.320 --> 00:28:43.120 some of the content and the teaching responsibilities was invited to asbury seminary to do a day-long 00:28:43.120 --> 00:28:48.160 workshop reviewing and going throwing all the content on an ordinary day with jesus which basically talks 00:28:48.160 --> 00:28:54.880 about how do you incorporate normal spiritual practices into daily life which is kind of what 00:28:54.880 --> 00:29:01.920 we should be talking about as soon as i'm done telling the story and uh and and so the guy that 00:29:01.920 --> 00:29:07.680 picks me up from the airport uh the night before is just making to chat with me along the way and he's 00:29:07.680 --> 00:29:13.360 like so where'd you go to seminary and i said well actually i i didn't go to seminary my husband went to 00:29:13.360 --> 00:29:17.760 seminary he went to dallas seminary and i took some courses while we were there but i was in the 00:29:17.760 --> 00:29:26.640 marketplace um doing sales and some technology companies and so he he you know just i i said in 00:29:26.640 --> 00:29:33.520 fact i you know everybody says i got my pht for putting hubby through and uh he just appropriately 00:29:33.520 --> 00:29:38.400 laughed and didn't think anything of it so i'm in the room the next day they're recording the whole 00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:43.440 thing and broadcasting it live there's probably a hundred people in this little this little 00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:49.520 auditorium kind of thing and he gets up and introduces me as having a phd from dallas seminary 00:29:50.960 --> 00:29:57.520 yeah and i was like oh no this is not good i can't like it's being recorded i cannot let 00:29:57.520 --> 00:30:01.920 that go out there but i also don't want to insult him he's just trying to give me a nice introduction 00:30:02.720 --> 00:30:11.360 so i got up and and tried to as quickly as i could just say uh you know actually told him about you 00:30:11.360 --> 00:30:17.120 know my husband dallas seminary i got the phd for putting hubby through i'm just an ordinary girl here 00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:24.560 to talk about an ordinary day with jesus and we went on from there but it's kind of a blessing to just be an 00:30:24.560 --> 00:30:32.800 ordinary person like how do we just even if i had a phd i which i don't i would still just be an ordinary 00:30:32.800 --> 00:30:39.840 person and that's what any of us is um okay so practical ways to care for your soul is that what 00:30:39.840 --> 00:30:46.000 you want to talk about as i said first you have to decide what you want and that may not seem very 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:54.960 practical but i would recommend getting out a journal and on one left hand side of a page start noticing 00:30:54.960 --> 00:31:02.800 reflect back what are some of the symptoms of how my soul has been that seem a little on the darker side 00:31:03.440 --> 00:31:14.000 i've been impatient i can't sleep at night i am worrying constantly i was snapping at my kids 00:31:14.640 --> 00:31:20.960 i um have these lustful thoughts that won't go away like whatever it is just list out what are the 00:31:20.960 --> 00:31:26.400 symptoms of disconnection that are going on currently not conceptually just currently for you 00:31:26.960 --> 00:31:31.120 and we're all a mixed bag so you're going to have things on both sides but on the other side of the 00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:38.000 paper i want you to reflect where are there signs of life that are currently in my life where are there 00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:44.240 symptoms of the spirit at work where did i have joy where did i experience 00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:51.200 some courage where did humility come to me in a time of interaction with someone where 00:31:51.840 --> 00:31:58.800 was my spiritual gift at play the value of creating those two lists and noticing what's current for 00:31:58.800 --> 00:32:07.200 you is that you then can be like okay this this is where i am right now and in all likelihood you're 00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:13.920 going to want to be moving towards the list on the right and away from the list on the left but what 00:32:13.920 --> 00:32:20.560 we normally do in that moment is start to think about oh well how do i be more joyful and how do i stop 00:32:20.560 --> 00:32:26.160 thinking about things i shouldn't think about how like we start to try to solve the symptoms of how the soul is 00:32:26.960 --> 00:32:33.600 but that doesn't get us back to connection so the first step though is to assess that so that you have 00:32:33.600 --> 00:32:38.880 that sense of what's at stake in your real life and why caring for your soul is really going to matter 00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:48.160 then i want you to start experimenting what things help you actually connect with god and when you're 00:32:48.160 --> 00:32:52.960 helping your team members or anything else like that those are these are all good ideas for that as 00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:58.320 well but start with yourself like right now just take that leader hat off you don't need to solve for 00:32:58.320 --> 00:33:06.960 everybody else right now what does this need to be like for you what things help do you need to i mean 00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:12.240 we're all sort of in this quarantine moment like where is a corner of your house that for 10 minutes 00:33:12.960 --> 00:33:18.400 you can set your devices down set your books down set your journals down don't even do any of that 00:33:19.280 --> 00:33:25.200 and see how well your body can just rest loosen up your shoulders put both your feet on the ground 00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:35.600 take a deep breath or three pay attention to that and then just see can you be quiet can you just rest 00:33:35.600 --> 00:33:44.400 in god's presence can you not be productive but just be with god that is one practice for me 00:33:45.200 --> 00:33:53.200 learning how to be silent especially in the morning that is not only very helpful to me but the difficulty 00:33:53.200 --> 00:34:01.280 of getting into it is usually a barometer for me of how my soul is doing um but it has been a very 00:34:01.280 --> 00:34:09.680 transformational practice for me so writing out in a journal getting some time for silence super 00:34:09.680 --> 00:34:16.240 important what is there something i mean we're so limited right now and i totally understand that but 00:34:16.240 --> 00:34:22.480 like do you need to take a break from your news feed for a two-hour window and say i'm i'm just 00:34:22.480 --> 00:34:30.000 intentionally going to not pay attention to that right now do you need to negotiate with your spouse or 00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:37.680 kids or team members that you need sleep you need at least six hours of sleep you might need more than that 00:34:39.120 --> 00:34:47.120 what would it be like to make sure you get that i think those are the places where you choose to take 00:34:47.120 --> 00:34:53.600 time to sleep choose to take time to connect with a ministry peer who can you call who can you hop on 00:34:53.600 --> 00:35:02.400 a zoom call and just laugh pray together do something that connects you relationally to 00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:08.640 a friend um but deciding to do those things guys you're already going to be thinking of all the other 00:35:08.640 --> 00:35:15.440 things you should be doing and you don't have time to do those wow right and that's that's going to be 00:35:16.160 --> 00:35:27.920 the game changer of how that's where humility comes in do i believe that letting go of all my producing 00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:34.560 long enough to be silent for 10 minutes or hop on a 20-minute call with a friend 00:35:35.920 --> 00:35:42.800 or get three more hours of sleep than i did last week each night do i really believe 00:35:43.920 --> 00:35:53.120 that it's all up to me or that by taking care of my own body and soul that god can work through me 00:35:53.840 --> 00:36:01.200 and do whatever he wants and you the sooner we let go of that guys the sooner the sooner we let go of 00:36:01.200 --> 00:36:06.640 it the more freedom and life there will be on the outside and all those exciting visions of what the body 00:36:06.640 --> 00:36:12.640 of christ can become during and through this crisis they start to open up to us because you're open 00:36:13.920 --> 00:36:18.400 you're open the world doesn't need i don't care how smart you are the world does not need your smart 00:36:18.400 --> 00:36:27.440 hard-working solutions there's enough of that and it it's not going to be enough we need your your 00:36:27.440 --> 00:36:36.000 life connected to god's life walking in freedom and joy and peace and openness and creativity 00:36:36.880 --> 00:36:42.880 and courage and that is only going to consistently come from a place of deep connection so figure out 00:36:42.880 --> 00:36:47.120 what it takes for you to stay connected to god it might be completely different than any things i've 00:36:47.120 --> 00:36:54.320 said but you'll know it by its fruit yeah what what's interesting in this whole conversation is it was 00:36:55.040 --> 00:37:01.440 like honestly half of me was expecting you to say you know spend time with family spend spend time with 00:37:01.440 --> 00:37:08.960 this but even before you got to the to the family level it's it's you know fix yourself first like 00:37:08.960 --> 00:37:14.800 work and solve these problems internally with you but before you get to to the family level you want 00:37:15.440 --> 00:37:22.320 jeff i love my family i do love my family but if i'm not operating from a place of connection with god 00:37:23.120 --> 00:37:28.720 my family doesn't want anything to do with me because i'm no fun to be around i am i mean it's like 00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:36.800 don't inflict yourself on the people and things you care about if you're not operating from a place of 00:37:37.600 --> 00:37:42.720 centeredness and connection to god because i mean again that's the humility like what on earth do i 00:37:42.720 --> 00:37:50.480 have to offer the people i actually love if i'm operating out of drivenness anxiety fear manipulation 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:57.200 like that's what i'm that's who i'm bringing into those family meetings and if i am running on gasping on 00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:04.000 fumes and have nothing to offer there's not a ministry spouse related to anyone who's ever hearing this 00:38:04.640 --> 00:38:08.720 who would not prefer you to go back and hang out with god until you have something 00:38:09.760 --> 00:38:15.520 not to bring like here's what i heard from the lord but something to bring that you're more solid you're 00:38:15.520 --> 00:38:24.960 actually a more solid person you're not a shell of who you used to be because god is filling you up from 00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:30.160 the inside i mean my husband would be like you know years ago we were just sort of learning how 00:38:30.160 --> 00:38:35.520 to do these things he'd be like mindy i'm having such a rough time i think i need to just go away for 00:38:35.520 --> 00:38:41.280 it could be a few days i don't know you know all these things and i mean i've got like a baby and we're 00:38:41.280 --> 00:38:46.720 trying to raise money and all this stuff and i'm like go like go and don't even come back until you 00:38:46.720 --> 00:38:52.880 and god have sorted this out because you're not helping and it's like of course we love our families 00:38:52.880 --> 00:38:58.640 but what are we bringing to them when we're operating in such places of deficit we just we have nothing 00:38:58.640 --> 00:39:05.920 to give we just don't you know that's that's well said does that surprise you jeff does that surprise you 00:39:05.920 --> 00:39:14.560 that i would focus on the inner part first rather than how to connect with your family well it and 00:39:14.560 --> 00:39:20.240 i'm gonna i'm gonna call myself out a little bit here um it that that's been a lesson that i've i've 00:39:20.240 --> 00:39:27.840 learned over time and and honestly the times where i've been healthiest emotionally um and and physically 00:39:27.840 --> 00:39:34.960 even was when i was putting myself through that the um and this is my 42 year old knees can't do 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:40.800 this anymore and i'm discovering that even like today in the season but i used to run and and running 00:39:40.800 --> 00:39:46.320 for me i would even do like up to half marathons and oh wow training oh yeah training regularly like 00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:53.520 that's impressive and and so i was just i was in a better physical state yeah but like i i wouldn't even 00:39:53.520 --> 00:39:58.880 like we have earbuds and music sometimes but oftentimes i would just be turning that off and 00:39:58.880 --> 00:40:04.560 just focusing on god in the conversation and it was it was funny i always felt weird in the moment 00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:09.440 just being transparent i felt weird in the moment to be like at nine o'clock at night when amy's 00:40:09.440 --> 00:40:13.760 putting the kids to bed and i'm like all right i'm gonna go for a run see you later and i come back 00:40:13.760 --> 00:40:19.360 and the kids are already asleep and i thought hey like you know don't you like feel am i am i leaving 00:40:19.360 --> 00:40:24.000 you should i stop doing this and my wife's like no keep going exactly because she's seeing she's seeing 00:40:24.000 --> 00:40:30.400 the fruit of of me caring for myself in that situation and even in seasons where i felt it 00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:34.800 was counterproductive it was actually very productive yeah one of one of the things that 00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:40.800 just transparently that i'm wrestling with in this covid 19 season that we're in is what what is that for 00:40:40.800 --> 00:40:47.760 for me in in the midst of what is the thing that i can do where is the escapism that that i can 00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:54.800 escapism may not be the right healthy word but this this idea of isolation with yeah like i i have um 00:40:54.800 --> 00:41:00.080 my kids and they they do this where uh we bought a um i don't know actually what it's called we'll 00:41:00.080 --> 00:41:04.960 link to it in the show notes but it's like a a kitchen safe that's got a timer on the top and so 00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:10.560 like i bought it to penalize the kids like when they're bad put their ipads in there and say like 00:41:11.280 --> 00:41:16.560 no ipads for like eight hours or a day you dial in the timer and then it locks it in for the amount of 00:41:16.560 --> 00:41:22.480 time well i'll be honest the number one device that's in that is my phone because because the 00:41:22.480 --> 00:41:27.680 kids at this point they're like yeah we we want daddy time put the phone in there and so like 30 minutes 00:41:27.680 --> 00:41:33.760 two hours you know regardless it's it's just it's it's isolated you know the air the airpods go in 00:41:33.760 --> 00:41:40.400 there the watch goes in there it's it's it's full lockdown as yeah but it's it's try to find the ways 00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:46.560 to move that you know not just for the family but but for yourself as as well to get you yeah get you 00:41:46.560 --> 00:41:52.880 girded in that here here's the thing that i've i've learned in this season is um historically coming 00:41:52.880 --> 00:42:00.960 out of the 2011 season uh when my life was was not healthy um victories i was claiming for for my own 00:42:00.960 --> 00:42:05.840 and so i was like look at all the stuff that i had done and what's interesting is if victories are mine 00:42:05.840 --> 00:42:12.560 then failures the failures of my life are mine as well um if my victories are not mine but god's 00:42:13.200 --> 00:42:18.800 then i'm blessed to be able to say that my failures are not mine that but they're god's and and he's in 00:42:18.800 --> 00:42:24.320 control and so if he's in control my failures are a lesson that's allowing me to be more in tune to 00:42:24.320 --> 00:42:30.960 where he would have me go it has a purpose and the purpose is god's not mine to figure out and so if 00:42:30.960 --> 00:42:37.440 you're talking about freedom you know the more that we're in tune to god the more that we're giving him 00:42:37.440 --> 00:42:44.480 the pluses and the minuses the more that he's able to shape us in our broken state and so the the more 00:42:44.480 --> 00:42:50.720 that we can just stay you know broken it was funny i i blogged recently i was like the the church is 00:42:50.720 --> 00:42:59.760 broken um not the god church but the usa the modern model of church today is broken and that was such a 00:42:59.760 --> 00:43:04.800 honestly it was a controversial blog post i had people texting me are you sure you want to say that and 00:43:04.800 --> 00:43:10.880 i'm like yeah i think i'm okay with that because i'm not saying god's church no i'm saying just how 00:43:10.880 --> 00:43:17.120 how we as humans are executing it and that we need to we need to learn something in this in this season 00:43:17.680 --> 00:43:23.680 but i would love for us to learn it under the guidance of the holy spirit amen not a self-guided 00:43:23.680 --> 00:43:30.160 witch hunt where we start deconstructing and pulling apart and everything else but let how do we have 00:43:30.160 --> 00:43:36.480 that curiosity and openness god show us it feels like this might be a little broken what what is there 00:43:36.480 --> 00:43:42.960 for us to see i'm thinking of one other spiritual practice i do want to share do i admit it go for it 00:43:42.960 --> 00:43:49.520 okay i put this on the soul care instagram uh last week so you might have seen it there but many many 00:43:49.520 --> 00:43:55.120 years ago like over 30 years ago somebody gave me a prayer in a little thing at a bridal shower so like a 00:43:55.120 --> 00:44:04.160 like 100 years ago and it's so faded now you cannot even read it but it was a prayer and i think of this 00:44:04.160 --> 00:44:09.760 as one of the practices that i do practice almost like pretty much every day whenever in the day i 00:44:09.760 --> 00:44:16.080 remember too but it's a daily prayer of surrender and you were we've been talking about humility about 00:44:16.080 --> 00:44:21.840 whether it's my vision or god's vision all these things this prayer and the words to this prayer have 00:44:21.840 --> 00:44:30.560 been with me daily for many many years and um i just want to read it as something we can put it in 00:44:30.560 --> 00:44:35.280 the show notes as well i actually don't know the source it's probably from somebody important but 00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:42.320 i don't know who because they didn't write it down but it just says jesus i am a humble lowly servant 00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:53.360 take me take all of me add anything take anything away at any cost and with any price 00:44:54.880 --> 00:45:04.560 make me make me yours completely and wholly may i not be remembered for the shape of my face or the 00:45:04.560 --> 00:45:12.160 way i wear my hair or the people i know or the crowds i've addressed may i be known for loving you 00:45:13.360 --> 00:45:21.440 for carrying a dream for building bridges to the lost and broken and hurting in this world may i live 00:45:21.440 --> 00:45:33.760 this day today as if you jesus were in my place may everything accomplished in my simple life bring honor 00:45:33.760 --> 00:45:44.320 and glory to you and then this really hard part at the end to take my human faults and failures 00:45:45.600 --> 00:45:52.960 and use them to remind those who know me that only you are god and i will always just be mindy 00:45:57.440 --> 00:46:08.720 there have been days when i had received great gifts and blessings and so the idea of saying 00:46:10.160 --> 00:46:12.640 add anything take anything away 00:46:15.280 --> 00:46:17.760 those are hard things to pray sincerely 00:46:20.560 --> 00:46:26.800 but i think the sort of the arc over time of that prayer over my life 00:46:28.240 --> 00:46:30.480 has been very healthy 00:46:32.080 --> 00:46:33.600 reorienting daily 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:43.280 and transactional at a level of me choosing do i really want to say this to the lord today 00:46:44.800 --> 00:46:49.280 and the oftener i do the more i 00:46:50.880 --> 00:46:57.120 i have sensed the winds of his spirit throughout my life in ways i could never have 00:46:57.120 --> 00:47:05.920 planned or intended or sought after and for me a daily prayer of surrender 00:47:06.880 --> 00:47:11.280 is a very practical doesn't take four hours doesn't take 20 minutes 00:47:11.920 --> 00:47:16.720 you can do it while you're making breakfast or writing a sermon 00:47:18.080 --> 00:47:28.240 you can just pause and re-surrender yet again your whole life to the one in whose hands you are so safe 00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:32.240 so loved so known and so cared for 00:47:35.840 --> 00:47:43.200 yeah i actually have no idea how to come how to say anything more to that like it's uh just even the 00:47:43.200 --> 00:47:46.960 poem and all that coming together that was that was beautiful thank you for sharing that 00:47:46.960 --> 00:47:54.000 um we're gonna we'll put uh we'll put a photo of it on there the thing that i love is um i actually 00:47:54.000 --> 00:48:00.880 couldn't read it like it's so uh when you held the frame up it's so oh i can't either yeah i mean it's 00:48:00.880 --> 00:48:05.680 so worn and weathered and when she recited it for a second i thought like she was reading it but 00:48:05.680 --> 00:48:10.800 she's like staring right at the webcam and so like this is not this is something that that's worn on 00:48:10.800 --> 00:48:17.920 your heart this is memorized this is this is part of the culture of of who you are um and and i love 00:48:17.920 --> 00:48:24.000 that i have um just at a personal level i have a bumper sticker and and actually i bought out the 00:48:24.000 --> 00:48:30.640 store of of the bumper sticker and i've got maybe 30 of them stockpiled so i bought 50 of them a 00:48:30.640 --> 00:48:36.960 couple decades ago and it's and it's this uh it's a john 330 uh you know he must become greater i must 00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:42.400 become less and it and it's this uh basically the bumper sticker i literally have it on my desk right 00:48:42.400 --> 00:48:47.440 here and so i had to look down just to reference but it says it's not about me uh just living 00:48:47.920 --> 00:48:54.880 living the the life that way um and allowing um allowing god to shape all the aspects of it 00:48:55.840 --> 00:49:00.720 and taking care of realizing that you have to take care of yourself in that system so that you can be 00:49:01.360 --> 00:49:09.920 uh the the the leader the the spouse uh that god called you to be the the father uh the mother the 00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:15.440 parent that god had called you to be that's that's so beautiful um mindy uh so thank you very much for 00:49:15.440 --> 00:49:20.880 the time i know that you've got a lot of things going on in your world uh soul care if somebody 00:49:20.880 --> 00:49:27.280 just briefly somebody wanted to connect uh yeah yeah yeah yeah on the there's a soulcare.com is our 00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:34.400 website and we have a team of people now who are also providing services to leaders uh spiritual 00:49:34.400 --> 00:49:40.640 direction leadership coaching but there's just a lot of resources on the site just for anybody and then 00:49:41.360 --> 00:49:48.560 so you can sign up to get our email distribution there if you're interested um we also have uh 00:49:48.560 --> 00:49:54.080 because of a team that's coming around soul care one of whom is my daughter-in-law uh she has been 00:49:54.080 --> 00:49:59.760 doing an incredible job on our instagram feed so i really feel like uh people are getting some value 00:49:59.760 --> 00:50:04.640 out of that i used to never tell anybody about it because it was like completely dormant and lame but now it's 00:50:04.640 --> 00:50:14.400 cool and so uh yeah it's just the at soul underscore care um for that or myself mindy calaguire on instagram 00:50:14.400 --> 00:50:20.320 just love to stay connected to this conversation we love talking with leaders about how they're actually 00:50:20.320 --> 00:50:27.200 doing we are never surprised we're never happy but never surprised at the true levels of pain 00:50:27.200 --> 00:50:31.920 disorientation and that kind of stuff that many leaders are holding i've had conversations with 00:50:31.920 --> 00:50:38.720 leaders from around the world for many years now and i can tell you with great confidence no matter where 00:50:38.720 --> 00:50:45.920 you are no matter how dark your circumstance may seem there is nothing beyond what god can meet you in 00:50:46.640 --> 00:50:54.720 and even just be with you in a painful place and eventually guide you from there but your soul 00:50:56.080 --> 00:51:00.480 like the writer of proverbs says above all else we have to guard that innermost 00:51:00.480 --> 00:51:06.640 part of who we are for from it comes your life and ultimately your leadership amen 00:51:08.320 --> 00:51:12.800 well mindy thank you for the time jumping on this um we're going to land the plane right 00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:17.680 there because i don't think it could be said better uh for for mindy this is jeff at the church digital 00:51:17.680 --> 00:51:21.680 thanks for jumping on the podcast and we'll see you next time uh here on the show y'all have a good day 00:51:22.240 --> 00:51:22.800 see you guys