WEBVTT 00:00:00.120 --> 00:00:09.300 Hey, this is Jeff with The Church Digital. We're going to get started with the episode here in just a minute, but before we get there, we all know Stadia, the organization that's been powering The Church.Digital. 00:00:09.740 --> 00:00:19.540 Well, guess what? Stadia is opening up some learning communities. We've been doing this for a while now. We've got about 70 churches that are actually part of these learning communities. 00:00:19.540 --> 00:00:29.340 They're learning how to thrive, grow, and multiply, not just physically, not just digitally, but digitally, the combining of physical and digital. 00:00:29.340 --> 00:00:36.300 And it's been a beautiful, beautiful thing. We've got content coming in from churches like Crossroads, from Saddleback, like Church Home. 00:00:36.720 --> 00:00:42.680 But guess what? It's not a content thing. Content's nice. Content doesn't change your church. Let's just say it. It doesn't. 00:00:43.020 --> 00:00:46.480 I'm a podcast operator. I understand this. It's not going to change your church. 00:00:46.680 --> 00:00:57.960 The ability to walk with someone and to help you understand some of the guidance, some of the accountability, the community of connecting with other churches, engaging with them, 00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:12.440 conversations with people as you wrestle with some of these things to try to figure out how to make your physical church and your online church authentically you that lines up with your missions, visions, and strategies, 00:01:12.440 --> 00:01:18.920 or maybe is even tightly intertwined that maybe some of that strategy changes to get more online. 00:01:18.920 --> 00:01:29.380 This is what Stadia is trying to create, an opportunity for you to learn and to dialogue and to change your church to thrive, grow, and multiply. 00:01:29.540 --> 00:01:30.920 It's a beautiful, beautiful thing. 00:01:31.000 --> 00:01:33.500 Hey, the learning community starts in August. 00:01:33.960 --> 00:01:39.620 So right now, go to stadiachurchplanting.org slash digital. 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:42.460 P-H-Y-G-I-T-A-L. 00:01:42.960 --> 00:01:45.280 Stadiachurchplanting.org slash digital. 00:01:45.800 --> 00:01:50.320 And more information will be there for you to learn about these learning communities. 00:01:50.440 --> 00:01:51.620 This has been great. It's been fun. 00:01:51.960 --> 00:01:54.920 But let's go ahead and get you now to that podcast episode. 00:01:55.580 --> 00:01:59.780 Episode 69 of the Church Digital Podcast powered by Stadia Church Planning. 00:01:59.900 --> 00:02:04.040 Once again, Jeff here, excited about the podcast that's happening here. 00:02:04.540 --> 00:02:05.440 Awesome topic. 00:02:05.660 --> 00:02:08.600 How do we, church, how do we get back into our buildings? 00:02:09.140 --> 00:02:09.920 What's the plan? 00:02:10.180 --> 00:02:11.200 What should the plan be? 00:02:11.300 --> 00:02:14.820 What should we be taking into consideration as we're heading back into the buildings? 00:02:15.160 --> 00:02:20.540 And the funny thing is, other than this, like, intro, I really didn't contribute much into this conversation. 00:02:20.860 --> 00:02:24.260 Because the people we had on the podcast were so passionate. 00:02:24.580 --> 00:02:26.660 They were so excited about this, they wouldn't stop talking. 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:34.160 And through the process, we had a fascinating conversation about how to be digital first in this season. 00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:38.600 In addition to going into the buildings, which is back, which is important, and the buildings play a role. 00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:42.620 Have we learned anything in this season towards being digital first? 00:02:42.760 --> 00:02:45.280 And so that's the conversation that we're having. 00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:46.500 It's an awesome conversation. 00:02:47.040 --> 00:02:50.560 Matt Welty, technology pastor out of Crossroads up in Cincinnati. 00:02:51.320 --> 00:02:56.040 Jason Morris, Westside Family, Kansas City, their global innovations pastor. 00:02:56.040 --> 00:03:00.260 Of course, Ray DeArmis, co-host regular here, digital pastor, Christ Fellowship Miami. 00:03:00.420 --> 00:03:04.240 Myself, Jeff, with the Church Digital, as well as Stadia Church Planning, 00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:09.040 in a conversation that I'm calling Digital First, even when we get back to the building. 00:03:09.420 --> 00:03:10.640 Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:03:11.060 --> 00:03:14.060 Have you two met each other or had talks? 00:03:14.060 --> 00:03:15.400 Yes, you made the connection. 00:03:15.960 --> 00:03:21.640 We called each other and had a lot of really great conversations. 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:29.940 I'm really kind of curious to see what Crossroads is thinking now on this particular topic for the podcast. 00:03:30.620 --> 00:03:35.600 Because you guys were already probably a couple of steps ahead anyway for most churches. 00:03:35.980 --> 00:03:39.700 So I'm kind of curious to see how you guys are approaching it. 00:03:39.800 --> 00:03:42.360 We're like doing a complete flip, it seems. 00:03:42.840 --> 00:03:44.920 So it's going to be super interesting. 00:03:44.920 --> 00:03:46.340 I can't wait to hear more about that. 00:03:46.540 --> 00:03:50.220 Man, hey, Ray. 00:03:50.520 --> 00:03:52.960 Yeah, I'm thinking like, oh, this is going to be great. 00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:54.580 I'm going to let Jason answer everything first. 00:03:54.740 --> 00:03:55.820 No, no, no, no. 00:03:55.820 --> 00:03:57.440 I'm going to be like, okay. 00:03:58.020 --> 00:03:58.380 No. 00:03:58.820 --> 00:04:00.720 Here's what Crossroads is thinking. 00:04:01.180 --> 00:04:02.100 Here's what I'm thinking. 00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:02.480 I don't know. 00:04:02.680 --> 00:04:02.920 Yeah. 00:04:04.500 --> 00:04:06.700 Also, everything will change too. 00:04:06.860 --> 00:04:09.680 That's the fun part about this topic is like in a month. 00:04:09.760 --> 00:04:13.420 It's more of like how do you approach thinking about it. 00:04:14.040 --> 00:04:17.000 Not only in a month, two months, and then a year from now. 00:04:17.420 --> 00:04:17.700 Yeah. 00:04:17.860 --> 00:04:20.080 There are probably going to be three separate models. 00:04:20.780 --> 00:04:20.940 Yeah. 00:04:21.020 --> 00:04:21.300 Agreed. 00:04:21.980 --> 00:04:22.220 Yeah. 00:04:22.340 --> 00:04:29.960 It's more about the philosophy of how do you think about reopening versus the when do you do it and what's the specific tactic. 00:04:30.260 --> 00:04:32.360 It's like, well, you're going to do it three times. 00:04:32.660 --> 00:04:33.840 So, yeah, I agree. 00:04:35.000 --> 00:04:37.900 Or just try to do it twice or once. 00:04:38.740 --> 00:04:39.100 Yep. 00:04:39.340 --> 00:04:40.860 Depending upon how you look at it. 00:04:40.860 --> 00:04:52.100 And that's one of the things where we as a church are like saying, man, there would be so much pain in creating a transitional plan for the next month, maybe two. 00:04:52.900 --> 00:04:53.780 It's not worth it. 00:04:54.520 --> 00:04:56.240 For a church of our size, it's not worth it. 00:04:56.500 --> 00:04:56.600 Yeah. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:05:02.800 Like you, you know, opening your buildings back up doesn't take the same amount of effort as having a service did three months ago. 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:08.440 It's, you're going to pull additional effort away from things that could be really fruitful right now. 00:05:08.920 --> 00:05:09.440 Exactly. 00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:11.220 Or potentially less return. 00:05:12.000 --> 00:05:12.360 Yeah. 00:05:13.360 --> 00:05:14.080 No joke. 00:05:15.320 --> 00:05:18.460 Are we allowed, is this the kind of stuff we're allowed to say, Jeff? 00:05:19.140 --> 00:05:22.980 Well, you know, I'm not even recording this whole time. 00:05:24.080 --> 00:05:26.520 I'm not even sure if we officially started this thing yet. 00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:28.800 You guys just kind of dove straight into it. 00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:29.500 That's awesome. 00:05:29.820 --> 00:05:33.680 I told Ray, I was like, I mean, this is all day. 00:05:33.820 --> 00:05:37.020 This is all I'm thinking about getting up at three o'clock in the morning, thinking about this stuff. 00:05:37.720 --> 00:05:40.720 Ray, Ray, Ray emailed me earlier today or texted or something. 00:05:40.720 --> 00:05:42.560 He's like, Hey, how should I prepare for this thing? 00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:43.420 And I'm like, are you kidding? 00:05:44.100 --> 00:05:45.960 We're going to like let these two guys go in the room. 00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:47.260 We're going to like press record. 00:05:47.460 --> 00:05:48.600 And they're just going to go. 00:05:49.400 --> 00:05:51.560 I mean, the smartest that's in here. 00:05:51.660 --> 00:05:55.100 I just want to get out of the way of the conversation and really let this happen. 00:05:55.400 --> 00:06:02.300 I've had 27 year old pastors, Jeff, I'm going to do everything I can to get back in that building as fast as possible. 00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.960 And like who are just miserable in this, in this digital experiment. 00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:14.160 I've had 65, 66 year old pastors, Jeff, we are not going to go back into a building until we can hug somebody. 00:06:14.580 --> 00:06:25.240 So we are fully engaging in doing this digital movement as long as possible until the place that we can do church the way that we have been designed to do, to do church. 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.600 So like, let's, let's fall in love with this digital strategy. 00:06:28.600 --> 00:06:30.580 And it's not an age thing. 00:06:30.580 --> 00:06:44.100 It's, it's when I still hear the pastor, it might be an experience thing because the guys that have been doing it, you know, 65 years or whatever, they know the amount of effort and energy it takes to pull this off week after week. 00:06:45.360 --> 00:06:55.080 And so they're thinking of it from a different mindset because they're, they're talking about managing not only their own energy, but managing the energy of their 00:06:55.080 --> 00:06:58.120 congregation because they've seen things come and go really quickly. 00:06:58.540 --> 00:07:01.160 And that's something that the 27 year old hasn't learned yet. 00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:03.780 Cause he's just like, let's just get it done. 00:07:03.860 --> 00:07:04.460 Let's get it done. 00:07:04.560 --> 00:07:04.820 You know? 00:07:04.920 --> 00:07:09.560 And he's not, he's not really thinking about the marathon like the 65 year old is. 00:07:09.780 --> 00:07:10.180 Yeah. 00:07:10.380 --> 00:07:19.980 And that, this is a marathon, especially with the stage rollout that we have here in Kansas city, dude, it's going to be at least six months. 00:07:20.220 --> 00:07:38.360 Here's, here's the part that for me is a little pernicious is that technically in the state of Kansas, because of all the kerfuffle that's been happening and in Johnson County, which is the county that our church is in, that has the highest number of COVID cases of the whole state. 00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:46.100 The governor is saying one thing, the county is saying another, but both are afraid of touching the church. 00:07:46.960 --> 00:07:50.440 They're calling the church an essential business, which is great. 00:07:50.860 --> 00:07:55.500 I mean, especially after all the kerfuffle in Kansas, you know, with the governor over it. 00:07:55.820 --> 00:07:56.040 Right. 00:07:56.660 --> 00:07:59.480 So, um, they're calling it an essential business. 00:07:59.480 --> 00:08:02.080 So basically it's like, okay, it's up to you pastors. 00:08:02.080 --> 00:08:03.520 Then go for it. 00:08:03.620 --> 00:08:10.420 You take the responsibility of the health of your County, of your neighborhood and of your state. 00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:16.580 It's on, you know, because the sports guys, they're not doing anything. 00:08:16.580 --> 00:08:21.720 I mean, every other large gathering has been clamped down except for the church. 00:08:21.840 --> 00:08:30.900 And this is one of those weird legal things about separation of church and state kind of stuff where it lays out in wacky ways for pastors right now. 00:08:31.500 --> 00:08:34.320 And now we've got pressure from both sides. 00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:36.440 We've got pressure from the culture to not open. 00:08:37.160 --> 00:08:40.360 And then you've got pressure from people in our churches to open. 00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:42.480 And that's weird. 00:08:42.960 --> 00:08:44.020 We've never had that before. 00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:52.780 To this, for me personally, is a, like when I can, doesn't mean you should situation, because I think we're allowed. 00:08:52.960 --> 00:08:54.100 It's an incredible thing. 00:08:54.140 --> 00:08:58.940 It's how affirming even that a lot of state governments are saying, hey, churches are essential businesses. 00:08:59.400 --> 00:09:00.460 Yeah, that's great. 00:09:00.560 --> 00:09:02.080 That's, that's a great thing. 00:09:02.080 --> 00:09:10.580 And when you, we, we have to pay attention to the, the currency of culture right now. 00:09:10.620 --> 00:09:24.400 And for the people we're trying to reach, yes, it will crush our witness to not be socially conscious and care about the health of people that we're trying to reach. 00:09:24.540 --> 00:09:26.440 And so it's one thing for church people. 00:09:26.640 --> 00:09:27.080 Absolutely. 00:09:27.880 --> 00:09:30.300 We want, because it will give us a sense of normalcy. 00:09:30.960 --> 00:09:35.820 As a church goer, as someone who's been in that habit, this will give me an anchor that feels great. 00:09:35.920 --> 00:09:36.800 And it will be amazing. 00:09:36.940 --> 00:09:38.640 And I'll get to see my people and that'll be awesome. 00:09:38.980 --> 00:09:54.680 But we're going to reopen and risk our witness to unbelieving people who we hope to reach and welcome into the family of God so that the church people who are already engaged in our church currently can come back into a building. 00:09:55.000 --> 00:09:56.740 And that might not be the right trade-off. 00:09:57.160 --> 00:09:57.360 Right. 00:09:57.440 --> 00:10:01.420 Because you would think that we would have learned from the example of Jesus that it's not about us. 00:10:02.780 --> 00:10:06.760 It's about that lost person who doesn't know Jesus yet. 00:10:07.460 --> 00:10:19.660 And if we do something stupid culturally that puts yet another mark against the name of Jesus, I think we're kind of going to be held accountable for that too. 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:22.540 Way to throw the dagger in there, bro. 00:10:24.660 --> 00:10:27.240 It's about love your neighbor as yourself kind of a deal. 00:10:27.740 --> 00:10:28.060 Oh, I know. 00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:30.980 That was just the Jesus kook that I needed, though. 00:10:31.060 --> 00:10:32.140 That was really good. 00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:37.300 And so, you know, both of you bring up a very, very good point. 00:10:37.680 --> 00:10:47.580 And I guess kind of what a lot of this comes down to in terms of how a lot of this is functioning is do we satisfy our current crowd, which is always a question in church, right? 00:10:47.940 --> 00:10:56.360 Do we satisfy our current crowd or do we do what it takes to make sure that we're consistently tapped in with reaching people for Christ? 00:10:57.560 --> 00:11:00.800 That's been like the battle of like the last like 50 years of church, right? 00:11:00.900 --> 00:11:07.580 Like in terms of, hey, do we consider going more seeker sensitive versus just tapping into like what we've currently going on? 00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:10.920 Do we consider going digital versus just keeping things the norm, you know? 00:11:12.100 --> 00:11:14.960 This is yet another hard fought battle on that front. 00:11:15.120 --> 00:11:18.520 Am I correct in kind of not summing it up, but just looking at it from that perspective? 00:11:18.520 --> 00:11:21.820 Yeah, and I would even say it goes beyond 50 years. 00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:32.120 I mean, even when you look at 1 Corinthians 14 and the Apostle Paul says, do your church services differently so that the new person who's coming in doesn't think you're crazy. 00:11:33.300 --> 00:11:56.400 So I think this is just another application of that idea where, for whatever reason, any organization, whether it be religious or not, tends toward introspection, tends toward complexity, tends toward serving the needs of their members and gets real introspective and real inward focused instead of outward focused. 00:11:56.400 --> 00:11:57.820 That's just human nature. 00:11:57.820 --> 00:12:10.800 The gap between the people who are already a part of the church, believe what we believe, following Jesus alongside of us and community with us, is growing wider between the people that we're trying to reach. 00:12:10.900 --> 00:12:12.340 So I think we have to pay attention to that too. 00:12:12.580 --> 00:12:17.260 There was in that last 50 years, in those five decades, that was closer together. 00:12:17.900 --> 00:12:19.720 There were, we shared values. 00:12:19.940 --> 00:12:21.400 There was an association with church. 00:12:21.400 --> 00:12:23.640 There was no big barrier to walking into a building. 00:12:23.640 --> 00:12:29.940 But today, like, to go back to how it was before is a false narrative. 00:12:30.140 --> 00:12:33.220 It's a fantasy to think, like, we'll go back to the way it was. 00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:39.180 There won't be a big barrier for people who don't yet believe what we believe to come into our big, dark building. 00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:41.260 We don't know what's going to happen there. 00:12:41.780 --> 00:12:43.360 And drop off your kids. 00:12:43.800 --> 00:12:44.600 Yeah, right? 00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:52.980 Like, sing real breathy in all directions, no matter what, the step forward is how does the combination of both of these things. 00:12:52.980 --> 00:12:55.180 It's not an abandon what we were doing physically. 00:12:55.280 --> 00:12:55.400 Right. 00:12:55.700 --> 00:13:07.620 It's as we step forward, what are we learning now, because we have to in this digital mode, that is effective at reaching new people and is effective at engaging disciples and making disciple makers. 00:13:07.980 --> 00:13:08.320 Right. 00:13:08.320 --> 00:13:13.520 And then what do we add back in as we can, and when do we do it? 00:13:13.880 --> 00:13:17.920 And there'll be, hopefully, lots of different variations of that, depending on the church. 00:13:18.160 --> 00:13:22.360 Yeah, one of the really great quotes that, I don't know, maybe, Jeff, you posted this or something. 00:13:22.620 --> 00:13:33.260 I don't remember who posted it, but it was an Alan Hirsch quote where he said that church in COVID season right now is having to do things completely differently. 00:13:33.500 --> 00:13:44.120 So, what it does is really good chess masters will practice without their queen. 00:13:45.200 --> 00:14:02.580 And what we're learning right now is I personally believe that Jesus is forcing us to be really good at our game so that we can find other ways of doing the disciple making mission that Jesus called us to do without a Sunday weekly service. 00:14:03.500 --> 00:14:10.240 So, so that we can explore all these other things and discover there, we have more power at our disposal than we realize. 00:14:11.280 --> 00:14:15.720 And this, the queen is always nice to have, but it's an add-on. 00:14:16.380 --> 00:14:33.120 And what, what has happened, I think, in kind of this punctuated church history of the past three or four months is it used to be that churches had an on-site, they were an on-site church with an online add-on. 00:14:33.840 --> 00:14:37.140 Now in COVID season, everybody's an online church. 00:14:38.380 --> 00:14:55.300 And post-COVID, we'll see what happens, but I, I'll tell you that there are churches that are forward-thinking from the things we're learning right now and how to play chess well and realizing how much power and how many more pieces we actually have on the board that they're considering. 00:14:55.300 --> 00:15:01.640 I mean, like our church is considering flipping to becoming an online church with an on-site add-on. 00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:13.220 And that's a different model that I think is more scalable and has more potential for leadership development and probably is even a little bit closer to what we find in scripture. 00:15:14.280 --> 00:15:21.400 And I definitely think that it's probably going to be more effective with the culture that we will find ourselves in post-COVID season. 00:15:21.540 --> 00:15:23.640 I mean, at the end of the day, I think all of this is playing. 00:15:23.980 --> 00:15:29.680 And it's funny, I think two or three times the whole Alan Hirsch queen has come up through blogs or podcasts. 00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:31.460 It's been a, it's been a common theme. 00:15:31.880 --> 00:15:33.260 We have used the queen. 00:15:33.480 --> 00:15:37.120 We, the American church, has used the queen way too much. 00:15:37.120 --> 00:15:43.920 And as a result of that, we became just, that's the only tool that we would use on the chess board. 00:15:44.060 --> 00:15:45.220 This has removed it. 00:15:45.420 --> 00:15:47.180 And I do think it has a place. 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:52.720 I, the guy who's like director of digital church planting, it's my job to plant digital only churches. 00:15:52.980 --> 00:15:57.900 I am saying there isn't, there is a place for a physical location in that. 00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:05.240 And even in that though, we need to realize it's a tool, not the method towards it. 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:15.480 And so that's where I think hopefully churches, and I love this idea of digital first where, and this is really the thing that I wanted to kind of park on because it's a different mentality. 00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:20.820 Jason, to your point, it's, it was physical first and then maybe an option of digital. 00:16:20.980 --> 00:16:26.480 I mean, and that's, and you were far more aggressive in that maybe 10% of churches who were broadcasting pre-COVID. 00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:33.940 But for the majority of the church, it was physical first and digital is like, you know, get the people in the physical building. 00:16:34.120 --> 00:16:34.680 That's it. 00:16:34.760 --> 00:16:41.080 There was not looking at online as discipleship opportunities within that virtual space. 00:16:41.840 --> 00:16:43.800 We've got a season now here to pivot. 00:16:44.020 --> 00:16:49.740 Matt, Matt floored me when we were talking about this podcast, when I invited him in. 00:16:49.860 --> 00:16:51.320 And I was like, hey, Matt, yeah, come on. 00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:52.900 I want to talk about when we get back to the building. 00:16:53.380 --> 00:16:55.440 And Matt emailed, text, whatever it was. 00:16:55.460 --> 00:16:57.160 He's like, he called me out, which I love. 00:16:57.240 --> 00:16:59.360 And he's like, Jeff, you're, you're, you're looking at it backwards. 00:16:59.500 --> 00:17:01.460 We're not going back to the building. 00:17:01.820 --> 00:17:06.220 We're implementing physical locations into our new founded digital strategy. 00:17:06.620 --> 00:17:21.520 And in that one statement, I'm like, oh my God, she just, I have told that story to 15 people because it's, it's like when we're doing this, when we're even considering this, let's not forget everything we've learned, but let's add to it. 00:17:22.260 --> 00:17:23.340 So I want to hear this. 00:17:23.400 --> 00:17:38.500 So Matt, I mean, I've got some things that we've been doing that I could share, but I really want to hear what Matt has to say because they've been doing micro-siting and they're a little, a few steps ahead of the game on that front. 00:17:38.500 --> 00:17:47.320 And so I'm kind of curious as to what has changed in this season, what your plans are going forward, if you have any, or if they're just conjecture at this point, that's fine. 00:17:47.420 --> 00:17:48.420 I still want to hear it. 00:17:49.080 --> 00:17:51.040 Yeah, they, they are conjecture. 00:17:51.120 --> 00:17:55.980 I mean, any, anybody who has a hard and fast plan is going to get that plan disrupted really soon. 00:17:56.000 --> 00:17:57.720 So we don't, we don't have a hard and fast plan. 00:17:58.320 --> 00:18:04.080 We, it's a, it's a, it's a missionary mindset for me. 00:18:04.260 --> 00:18:10.280 It's, it's the approach to the problem to go, we're not preserving and protecting our method of church. 00:18:10.740 --> 00:18:19.980 We are, as, as the people we're trying to reach, just like if we were to get picked up from America, we're in Ohio, so we're like in the middle of the middle or I don't know, Kansas is maybe the middle of the 00:18:19.980 --> 00:18:25.480 middle, but we, and go to a different country with a different language. 00:18:25.480 --> 00:18:28.680 We wouldn't go, well, everyone come do it the way that we do it. 00:18:28.680 --> 00:18:32.520 We would, we all know this like any, you know, and so we would get in and do the native language. 00:18:33.080 --> 00:18:43.060 Culture has changed pre-COVID, but for sure all of us are having to, you know, get gripped by this fact that the native language of the people we're trying to reach is digital. 00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:50.580 So we've, this is our opportunity if we'll let it for God to show us the new capability we need in our organization. 00:18:50.580 --> 00:18:52.240 So we, we had experimented. 00:18:52.300 --> 00:18:58.180 Like I, if we're ahead, we're only ahead in experimenting and gathering up mistakes and figuring out as we go. 00:18:58.260 --> 00:19:15.260 But we, I mean, we have, we, we have done the microsite or the, you know, sort of more smaller gatherings, watch parties like Elevation is, and so many other churches are doing inside of the initial weeks of stay at home orders. 00:19:15.760 --> 00:19:18.820 Our staff, like so many church staffs have shifted to great. 00:19:18.820 --> 00:19:19.720 We're picking up the phone. 00:19:19.800 --> 00:19:21.480 We've called every person in the church. 00:19:21.860 --> 00:19:22.880 How can we pray for you? 00:19:23.240 --> 00:19:29.680 In most cases, leaving voicemails, no one picks up the number they don't know, but that's a pretty nice voicemail to get like, Hey, this is from your church. 00:19:29.680 --> 00:19:40.320 You know, um, and, and going, it's, I think too, even the phone call thing, that's a great example of how, when we say digital first, we don't digital. 00:19:41.280 --> 00:19:45.660 It digital first is still people doing ministry with people. 00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.280 Yes, it is a different tool. 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:49.600 That's a platform changing. 00:19:49.880 --> 00:19:56.560 It's like, if you were to go back to whenever buildings came online and 300 AD or something, you're like, Oh, you guys are, you guys are going building first. 00:19:56.680 --> 00:19:57.440 That's interesting. 00:19:58.240 --> 00:20:00.920 No, we're just, you're adapting to the culture. 00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:04.120 You know, I would have loved to have been a part of those conversations as a digital guy. 00:20:04.120 --> 00:20:05.800 Like that would have been good for me. 00:20:05.800 --> 00:20:08.800 Cause now, you know, all the building guys are like digital now, you know? 00:20:08.800 --> 00:20:13.980 So yeah, it, it, it is a moving forward and buildings play a critical role in it. 00:20:13.980 --> 00:20:19.320 Like, but for us to go, let's not lose any of our innovation that we're experiencing now. 00:20:19.360 --> 00:20:20.640 Let's not lose any of our momentum. 00:20:20.640 --> 00:20:29.520 We've, we've validated for people that they can be engaged in the church, growing spiritually, reaching their friends without a building. 00:20:30.180 --> 00:20:36.880 So instead of going back, it's just a mindset to go, as we add a building back in, what is, what is it? 00:20:37.520 --> 00:20:39.060 What can only a building do? 00:20:40.280 --> 00:20:45.160 What, how do we use it in a way that is so unique and so value added? 00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:51.940 Because it won't, if we're honest with ourselves, all of the church people already engaged in our churches will come back to our buildings when we reopen them. 00:20:52.600 --> 00:21:03.120 And then in a few weeks, if we're offering only what we're offering online inside of our buildings, they will opt for the more convenient way to be engaged in our churches. 00:21:04.580 --> 00:21:12.780 We've valid, the good news is that we've said in this COVID period, this is an authentic expression of church, what we're doing digitally. 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:21.400 We can't bring buildings back in, in a way that takes all of that away, especially because it's going to be the minority of our churches coming to gather together. 00:21:21.580 --> 00:21:28.820 So we're going to get a small group gathered together and say, okay, just kidding guys, all that stuff we were doing online, it's not, not fully church anymore. 00:21:30.080 --> 00:21:32.100 You got to come here for the full church experience. 00:21:32.100 --> 00:21:34.640 So we've got, that's the mindset of we can't go back. 00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:38.120 We've got to figure out how to pull buildings back in to the full toolbox. 00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:43.160 I've got a question though, because one of the things we're wrestling with is which one takes primary. 00:21:43.360 --> 00:21:51.400 And in our mind, it's like, you know what, we should probably go to the place where online takes primary as the primary expression of worship. 00:21:52.100 --> 00:22:00.800 And your on-site expression of worship now takes a back burner to what we are programming for, putting all of our energy in. 00:22:01.600 --> 00:22:04.800 And resourcing, staffing, all that kind of stuff. 00:22:04.860 --> 00:22:06.920 Because pre-COVID, it was the opposite. 00:22:07.420 --> 00:22:10.200 We were broadcasting what was happening on site. 00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:19.200 Now, what we could do is we could throw in the room on the screen what we have pre-prepared for everyone online. 00:22:20.080 --> 00:22:20.220 Yeah. 00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:21.180 So that's a flip. 00:22:21.180 --> 00:22:35.780 That's one of the things that we're talking through because one thing that's really great about creating all of your workflows, all of your worship, all of your teaching, all that stuff that is prepared and optimized for the screen is that the screen is scalable. 00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:37.580 You can put it in a small room. 00:22:37.580 --> 00:22:38.520 You can put it in your pocket. 00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:39.760 You can put it in a big room. 00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:40.640 It doesn't matter. 00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:41.380 Right? 00:22:41.740 --> 00:22:44.260 We've got campuses all over the place that just do video. 00:22:44.480 --> 00:22:46.340 And obviously, the screen works there. 00:22:46.760 --> 00:22:47.040 Right? 00:22:47.180 --> 00:22:47.300 Yeah. 00:22:47.440 --> 00:23:00.360 So if we were to optimize all of our processes, all of the energy for Sunday's coming kind of stuff on the video first, then we can scale it and let people go wherever they want. 00:23:00.840 --> 00:23:02.340 That's kind of what we're thinking at this point. 00:23:02.880 --> 00:23:03.560 I love it. 00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:06.520 So personal opinion is in full agreement with that. 00:23:06.520 --> 00:23:15.340 We internally at Crossroads a year and a half ago, I think is about the timing of it, we went screen first. 00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:18.580 So that was an internal call to action. 00:23:18.840 --> 00:23:24.360 We will create screen first content for every venue. 00:23:25.260 --> 00:23:27.220 And it was just what you're describing, Jason. 00:23:27.280 --> 00:23:30.820 And that was the mindset behind it and made mistakes along the way. 00:23:30.940 --> 00:23:36.080 So for us, one of the mistakes we made was we, well, the metaphor we used was Jerry Seinfeld. 00:23:36.780 --> 00:23:43.640 So Seinfeld, an incredible comedian, prolific live entertainer, but only so many people could see him live. 00:23:44.000 --> 00:23:51.900 When you put Jerry's, no loss of DNA, his comedy inside of a sitcom, it scales. 00:23:52.620 --> 00:23:54.700 Yes, but here's the thing, though. 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.400 Wait, wait, wait. 00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:57.200 You're not going to criticize Seinfeld here. 00:23:57.440 --> 00:23:58.380 No, no, no, I'm not. 00:23:58.480 --> 00:23:58.700 I'm not. 00:23:58.780 --> 00:23:59.780 But I want to draw a distinction. 00:23:59.780 --> 00:24:01.180 Like there's few sacred cows. 00:24:01.420 --> 00:24:02.320 No, I get it. 00:24:02.420 --> 00:24:02.980 Okay, okay. 00:24:03.100 --> 00:24:03.400 Okay. 00:24:03.560 --> 00:24:06.000 I think you're going to point out one of the mistakes we got, though. 00:24:06.780 --> 00:24:08.800 Here's a critical distinction, though. 00:24:09.180 --> 00:24:17.060 There is a difference between watching the Seinfeld show and watching a TV show that's one of his comedy routines on stage. 00:24:17.660 --> 00:24:18.620 There is a difference. 00:24:18.620 --> 00:24:35.140 The way that you program it, the way that you edit it, the way that you leave room for commercial, all those things in a normal sitcom is a completely different metaphor of storytelling than the way that one would do it standing on a stage. 00:24:35.680 --> 00:24:36.280 Totally agree. 00:24:36.280 --> 00:24:49.080 And what we're trying to pull off right now is not to recreate a stage experience on Sunday in our videos, but create a completely new method of storytelling altogether. 00:24:49.480 --> 00:24:56.600 And that impacts the way that we program, it impacts liturgy, it impacts, you know, the way that we try to make it interactive, all of those things. 00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:57.580 And we're still experimenting. 00:24:57.580 --> 00:25:00.860 We've got one coming out this Sunday that I think is getting close. 00:25:01.140 --> 00:25:03.660 We're starting to figure it out, what we can do. 00:25:04.320 --> 00:25:11.060 But it's radically different, and it's very disruptive for people that are used to, like, the worship guys are like, what do we do? 00:25:11.240 --> 00:25:12.160 How do we do this? 00:25:12.200 --> 00:25:20.460 You know, they want to do a stage thing, you know, and everybody film it, but that doesn't fit in what we're trying to do with video first kind of stuff. 00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:20.960 So go ahead. 00:25:21.220 --> 00:25:23.700 I want to dig in there for both of you. 00:25:23.720 --> 00:25:28.220 I want to hear it from both of you, because, Jason, by the time this podcast comes out, like, this will have already happened. 00:25:28.220 --> 00:25:36.140 So, Matt, you're going to go next, but, you know, we had to basically stick a dynamite to the whole thing, too, once we hit COVID in terms of the service. 00:25:36.140 --> 00:25:40.940 And we had to say, okay, this made sense from exactly what you said, bringing a stage experience to online. 00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:47.400 Now, when it's online first, the whole thing, the whole shebang had to change from beginning to end. 00:25:48.060 --> 00:25:54.100 Our experience of worship, the way that our worship leaders interacted with the camera, even the way that our communicators talk, length of sermon, et cetera. 00:25:54.580 --> 00:25:56.600 So, Matt, for sure, you go. 00:25:56.780 --> 00:25:59.760 Jason, I want to hear what you guys got on the docket coming up this weekend. 00:26:00.540 --> 00:26:03.020 So, yeah, we've experimented with some of this. 00:26:03.280 --> 00:26:05.520 We've done on-location teaching. 00:26:05.700 --> 00:26:13.180 So we've gone far away to different parts of the world to go, okay, we're connecting in the geography and what you can feel to the teaching background. 00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:17.020 That was an early experiment, and it was better than on-stage teaching. 00:26:17.120 --> 00:26:19.380 Way more immersive, can play in more places. 00:26:19.800 --> 00:26:22.300 We tried a reality TV show format. 00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:32.880 So we used our camps structure, and we followed people through a two-day camp experience, spiritual, mountaintop, exceptional vulnerability, the whole thing. 00:26:32.980 --> 00:26:34.120 In 100 ways, it was great. 00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:38.900 And in 100 ways, we learned, like, okay, that was cool, but it was also a reality TV show. 00:26:39.040 --> 00:26:45.320 And all the people coming for church would say, that was a great reality TV show, but I wanted you to give me church. 00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.520 So on-location teaching was a little bit better at that. 00:26:47.860 --> 00:26:56.480 And so, you know, and so then our more recent versions of on-location teaching are way more interactive. 00:26:56.680 --> 00:27:11.600 It's not just a backdrop where Brian was just in Israel, a story where Jesus puts mud in the guy's eyes to take away his blindness, but can't see until he walks the half mile from where this happened down to the river to wash the mud out of his eyes, 00:27:12.100 --> 00:27:14.580 which is a piece of the story I'd never thought about before. 00:27:14.580 --> 00:27:25.620 And so Brian, blindfolded with mud in his eyes, walks the half mile as he continues to teach about the doubt and the fear and that you have to take action and faith and all these things. 00:27:26.060 --> 00:27:33.880 So that kind of new, that's the, at least for us at the moment, that new mode of storytelling to get the sermon across, which was great. 00:27:34.140 --> 00:27:36.520 What we've found is that scales everywhere. 00:27:36.620 --> 00:27:39.820 And the great news is you can take that same video product. 00:27:39.960 --> 00:27:42.920 If you just play it in an auditorium, good, but not great. 00:27:43.120 --> 00:27:46.340 Because why come in for just what I could watch on my couch. 00:27:46.560 --> 00:27:54.520 But now in an auditorium, in a building, you can augment that with worship experiences from your worship leaders that can't happen anywhere else. 00:27:54.520 --> 00:28:04.160 From commentary from Brian or some of the other, like, so we'll do a in and out of video thing where Brian will play a clip of what you can watch the whole thing online. 00:28:04.280 --> 00:28:09.680 If you're, but if you're in our buildings, you're going to see a 15 minute clip and then Brian's going to riff on it. 00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:13.260 And so it creates this new in-room church experience. 00:28:13.840 --> 00:28:23.060 But you, to your point, Jason, you're, you've created a new type of content that's now usable in so many different places, which is really healthy for our churches too. 00:28:23.120 --> 00:28:26.820 Because most of our churches are, were made to only produce one thing. 00:28:27.180 --> 00:28:27.620 Right. 00:28:27.780 --> 00:28:30.420 We've optimized for the past hundred years. 00:28:30.560 --> 00:28:34.140 Even our buildings are optimized for one kind of experience. 00:28:34.300 --> 00:28:35.000 They do one thing. 00:28:35.000 --> 00:28:43.380 So if you, if you flip that in COVID season and take this opportunity to get optimized, to create screen first content, that may work for another five years. 00:28:43.380 --> 00:28:49.180 But what it, what it will do is also create a capability in your staff and your organization to pivot again, if you need to. 00:28:49.300 --> 00:28:54.240 So now what we're, what we're doing is our online experiences will be different than our in-room experiences. 00:28:54.500 --> 00:28:56.400 They'll share some of the same assets. 00:28:56.780 --> 00:28:56.880 Yeah. 00:28:56.900 --> 00:28:58.380 We're having that conversation too. 00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:02.460 And which is a little scary for me because I know all the work that it's going to take. 00:29:02.620 --> 00:29:03.020 Totally. 00:29:03.020 --> 00:29:16.720 But one, one thing that I think to your point that I've been talking about as well is if we create core content with which each environment can contextualize and add to as needed. 00:29:17.180 --> 00:29:26.360 And we know that this 15 minutes is not going to be a whole service, but this will be the core part of the service that keeps us all unified together as a church network. 00:29:26.660 --> 00:29:27.060 Yeah. 00:29:27.060 --> 00:29:27.220 Right. 00:29:27.220 --> 00:29:31.620 This is what we're all going to be doing on Sunday or Saturday night or whatever. 00:29:31.620 --> 00:29:31.880 Right. 00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:33.420 This is what we're going to be doing this week. 00:29:33.820 --> 00:29:34.120 Right. 00:29:34.520 --> 00:29:40.180 And each environment can scale it up or down as needed, including the online environment. 00:29:40.320 --> 00:29:48.140 So if the online environment, you know, we've got 15 minutes of really high production, high quality storytelling via video. 00:29:48.420 --> 00:29:53.920 Now I can do cut ins and riff on that to just my online audience, right? 00:29:54.480 --> 00:29:58.720 Knowing that it's my online audience is the primary people that are going to be receiving it. 00:29:58.980 --> 00:30:06.020 This is something that's probably going to happen, you know, six months down the road when everybody kind of settles into whatever their rhythm happens to be. 00:30:06.020 --> 00:30:26.060 And I will be able to minister to in a specific and contextualized way to that audience in particular, knowing that in the big room of a thousand people or in the other room that we have across town with our multi-site, you know, with 300 people, they're going to be contextualizing it differently. 00:30:26.220 --> 00:30:29.660 But we're all going to have that same core content at least. 00:30:30.340 --> 00:30:41.960 And that way, instead of having that core content come from one place on a stage, it is now storytelling from video perspective first. 00:30:42.600 --> 00:30:42.800 Yes. 00:30:43.000 --> 00:30:46.340 And I think we can have way more interactivity around that. 00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:59.460 One of the things that we're putting into the video thing for ours right now, and this is what we're experimenting with this Sunday, is to have a particular block of time set aside in the video with like a little countdown and stuff in there. 00:30:59.460 --> 00:31:10.900 And prayer prompts to have prayer moments in the middle of the video, so that people can, wherever they are, gather their whole family together and say, okay, we're going to pray for this right now. 00:31:11.080 --> 00:31:23.160 And there's like these prayer prompts and these little visuals and things like that to keep things going, you know, and then pulling them out of that prayer time into a worship time, you know, but it feels it's not, it's not passive. 00:31:23.160 --> 00:31:35.680 So, and that's one of the big things about video I think we need to figure out is keeping it not passive because people are used to watching TV, they're used to watching movies, all those things where you just sit back in the lazy chair in your pajamas and just like coast. 00:31:35.980 --> 00:31:36.980 Yeah. 00:31:36.980 --> 00:31:48.420 And that's not what we want to do in church, church is supposed to be participative read first Corinthians 14 and everybody's supposed to be bringing something we have to figure out how all of us together can participate. 00:31:48.420 --> 00:31:56.880 And I think that's one of the things that people are feeling that vacuum right now, that hole, because they're watching videos and honestly, they're watching videos from everybody. 00:31:57.060 --> 00:32:03.900 But if the participation though, you can't, you can't fake that, you know, you can't just watch participation. 00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:05.600 You have to create participation. 00:32:06.240 --> 00:32:07.800 So that's, that's a great thought. 00:32:07.860 --> 00:32:13.540 And I definitely want to have that conversation eventually about how Christians are content overloaded and discipleship start. 00:32:13.680 --> 00:32:16.380 Like we'll have that conversation down the road. 00:32:16.380 --> 00:32:18.420 I'm pretty sure Jeff will have us back on for that one. 00:32:18.640 --> 00:32:29.100 Really, what I want to know is, should we be creating more second screened experiences than if that's the case to ensure that people have that kind of conversation and that kind of participation? 00:32:29.460 --> 00:32:36.800 Because for instance, one of the things that I love about the NBA right now is NBA Twitter, because for me, it's, it's, it's a second screened experience. 00:32:36.800 --> 00:32:40.120 Not only am I watching the game, but there are jokes, there's inside things. 00:32:40.120 --> 00:32:42.340 There's all sorts of stuff happening alongside of it. 00:32:42.760 --> 00:32:46.260 You know, Netflix party has kind of erupted and it's become a thing, you know? 00:32:46.300 --> 00:32:50.320 And so now I can watch videos and participate with others in that as well. 00:32:50.800 --> 00:32:51.240 Yes. 00:32:51.380 --> 00:32:59.440 So here for church, how can we make sure and create conversational experiences with this, within the service, both physical and digital? 00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:01.840 To ensure that that kind of thing continues. 00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:07.240 So it's interesting that you had mentioned that particular scenario with NBA, that you watch the game. 00:33:07.720 --> 00:33:10.560 So there's like three different layers of things going on. 00:33:10.820 --> 00:33:20.760 There's an actual game that's going on on site in an arena somewhere where people are interacting with one another with this, with different people than the people that are watching it on TV. 00:33:21.080 --> 00:33:25.880 But the interaction platform is the same common denominator with both audiences. 00:33:25.880 --> 00:33:37.860 I think there's, there are things to be learned there and to be mined there where you can have people on site interacting with people online and create that cross network effect that's happening. 00:33:38.100 --> 00:33:42.480 And the only, the only downside to that is, is that y'all have to be on the same time. 00:33:42.600 --> 00:33:45.060 So that's where we come back to live versus prerecorded. 00:33:45.560 --> 00:33:54.960 See, one of the benefits we have right now is, and this is what we're kind of experimenting with right now is, how can we make prerecorded content, which if you get the quality up, you kind of have to. 00:33:55.120 --> 00:34:01.400 How do you get prerecorded content, have the interactivity of live, more than just chat. 00:34:01.400 --> 00:34:15.180 And I've seen certain churches take like a zoom call like this, where they'll have people interacting, but they'll do it like mystery science theater 3000 style, where they're watching a video, but everybody else is kind of interacting at the same time. 00:34:15.260 --> 00:34:22.540 So that would be one approach that is not chat related, where you have this participative thing, polls and surveys and things like that. 00:34:22.540 --> 00:34:31.140 If you're doing it in a live environment, then you can respond to the responses that are happening in real time and people feel like, oh, I'm a part of this, they're paying attention to me. 00:34:31.240 --> 00:34:37.140 Q&A sessions, those types of things that can happen cross campus, cross location. 00:34:37.740 --> 00:34:43.760 Just the timing thing is what you have to snap into when you create those interactive experiences. 00:34:43.960 --> 00:34:48.400 And that's, that's where for me, it's like, okay, how do we, how do we pull this off in a good way? 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:52.220 So that's it, we're experimenting with this Sunday with these prayer moments. 00:34:52.440 --> 00:34:56.480 And I'm telling people, if you're in the room, you got people in the room, then pray with the people in your room. 00:34:57.120 --> 00:35:01.180 If you're by yourself, or you're watching this later, pray in the comments. 00:35:02.080 --> 00:35:06.400 And so, or pray in the chat, you know, so all of the, you are not alone. 00:35:06.640 --> 00:35:08.320 That is the thing that people want to feel. 00:35:08.420 --> 00:35:11.400 And that's why there's so much push toward going back to the building. 00:35:11.580 --> 00:35:15.080 It's because they want to feel part of something again, they want to participate again. 00:35:15.080 --> 00:35:21.020 And that, that core desire, we should really think about hard. 00:35:21.520 --> 00:35:25.680 Because if anything, any pastor wants to have is somebody who wants to participate. 00:35:26.180 --> 00:35:28.720 So let's figure that out in the digital space. 00:35:28.720 --> 00:35:32.100 And then when we put the onsite add on, that'll just be easy at that point. 00:35:32.320 --> 00:35:35.260 Your prayer moment, Jason, I think it's brilliant. 00:35:35.380 --> 00:35:37.520 I can't wait to, I'm going to watch it. 00:35:37.580 --> 00:35:41.500 And I can't wait to hear what you, as you debrief it with your team, what happens. 00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:46.680 What it reminds me of is if you guys have ever done a Google sprint, they have this phrase 00:35:46.680 --> 00:35:48.940 they use in there that's called working alone together. 00:35:49.080 --> 00:35:52.520 I'd never thought about it in this context, but what you're setting people up to do, even 00:35:52.520 --> 00:35:57.160 if they watch it on demand later on, you're pausing their moment, you're causing them 00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:57.760 to interact. 00:35:57.880 --> 00:36:01.880 And even if they're only interacting with their family or they're by themselves, they are 00:36:01.880 --> 00:36:04.720 with their church, they're doing something alone together. 00:36:04.940 --> 00:36:08.540 This is something our movement did, even if it's a little bit separated by time. 00:36:08.540 --> 00:36:16.300 And I think too, the, the chat during service, we, we've got to be careful about labeling that 00:36:16.300 --> 00:36:18.980 as community or as participation. 00:36:19.980 --> 00:36:25.080 It is for some, but also when we go back into buildings, I don't think any of us are going 00:36:25.080 --> 00:36:28.040 to be like, and we'd love for everyone to just continue to chat during the sermon. 00:36:28.660 --> 00:36:32.660 And we're, it's a, if we go online, that'll never happen. 00:36:32.680 --> 00:36:34.300 I don't think we should go back to a sermon. 00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:35.200 That's the thing. 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:38.300 Hey, everyone be quiet. 00:36:38.820 --> 00:36:40.140 We're going to do our thing now. 00:36:40.920 --> 00:36:44.960 Like, so online thinking like, what are those core actions? 00:36:45.160 --> 00:36:46.740 What does participation mean? 00:36:46.840 --> 00:36:53.300 If I watch on my, my Roku, the sermon this week, and I'm struck by this revelation, this 00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:56.480 teaching, this thing that should lead me to an action. 00:36:56.680 --> 00:37:00.940 We, we are, we have a know and do within all of our teaching structures where we go, we 00:37:00.940 --> 00:37:04.140 don't want people to know more stuff, want them to practice more stuff. 00:37:04.140 --> 00:37:05.560 So everything has to end in a do. 00:37:06.040 --> 00:37:10.640 So I think too, that second screen experience could be a second moment experience. 00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:14.660 So it could, it can be not timed at the same time. 00:37:14.800 --> 00:37:17.620 It could be take an initial action. 00:37:17.620 --> 00:37:23.540 Like, um, this would be about like, uh, text something to this number because on Monday 00:37:23.540 --> 00:37:28.320 morning, we're going to, we're going to, we're going to send you a stimulus to do X. 00:37:28.600 --> 00:37:29.740 Dude, there's an idea. 00:37:30.000 --> 00:37:30.960 Yeah, it is a good idea. 00:37:31.560 --> 00:37:33.060 You've created this participation. 00:37:33.420 --> 00:37:33.640 Yeah. 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:38.460 But it's separate and everybody can, even if I watch that on demand a year later, 00:37:38.780 --> 00:37:42.920 potentially with this, you know, and, and so I think too, like when you're, you're 00:37:42.920 --> 00:37:47.300 creating screen first content, you're thinking about evergreen interactions that 00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:51.240 people can have, the other benefit that comes from the screen first content is you're 00:37:51.240 --> 00:37:55.160 setting yourself up, not just for the scalability that weekend in different 00:37:55.160 --> 00:37:59.960 environments, you're automatically creating all of your long form on demand 00:37:59.960 --> 00:38:04.680 content for years to come that people search up what's usable on social media, which I 00:38:04.680 --> 00:38:09.560 think we all have to figure out how to get the most out of every single resource right 00:38:09.560 --> 00:38:10.860 now and forever. 00:38:11.040 --> 00:38:15.620 But interaction is, I have a lot of passion around that to figure out what does that mean 00:38:15.620 --> 00:38:20.140 in the digital space when it's mixed in with my life happens in this, you know, if I'm 00:38:20.140 --> 00:38:22.380 in this room watching church, how do I interact? 00:38:22.460 --> 00:38:23.200 What does that mean? 00:38:23.260 --> 00:38:27.440 But there are some tangible steps I can take in obedience and response to God. 00:38:27.560 --> 00:38:33.440 And they can be in the moment, worship, prayer, but you could extend the service well into 00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:37.540 the week, or maybe even start to get into some of that engagement discipleship stuff. 00:38:37.540 --> 00:38:42.420 Cause we're not, we're getting people out of content consumption mode into like, oh yeah, 00:38:42.460 --> 00:38:46.620 I did, I did say I wanted on Sunday to do that thing on Wednesday. 00:38:46.620 --> 00:38:49.360 How helpful my church just helped me follow through on that. 00:38:49.360 --> 00:38:53.920 One of the things that I think has been helpful in this COVID season, because the queen in the 00:38:53.920 --> 00:38:58.540 same way where it can go laterally and diagonally, the queen, as it relates to the Sunday service 00:38:58.540 --> 00:39:00.280 is both a building and a time. 00:39:00.540 --> 00:39:01.840 So, and it's a weekly thing. 00:39:02.060 --> 00:39:07.000 So we just went away from weekly and we went away from building those two constraints. 00:39:07.000 --> 00:39:12.460 I think you've just tapped into, as it relates to possible interactions where you could have 00:39:12.460 --> 00:39:18.520 like a staggered interaction where on one day you're saying, Hey, respond in this way. 00:39:18.520 --> 00:39:24.340 And we will talk about it three days later when we have our prayer time together, you know, 00:39:24.340 --> 00:39:26.420 live at five, whatever that is. 00:39:26.420 --> 00:39:29.900 And you've, you've just, you, you like disintegrated two things. 00:39:29.900 --> 00:39:33.760 One is you disintegrated the building and the other you disintegrated weekly Sunday, which 00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:41.560 is super helpful because I, we're finding in this time that we're getting more done daily 00:39:41.560 --> 00:39:43.100 than we could weekly. 00:39:43.680 --> 00:39:50.360 We're getting more done when it comes to parents, empowering them to pastor their own kids and 00:39:50.360 --> 00:39:55.860 they're awakening to their own, um, priesthood in their homes, like never before. 00:39:55.860 --> 00:40:00.100 And we're getting feedback now where they're like, uh, I don't want to send them to Sunday 00:40:00.100 --> 00:40:00.300 school. 00:40:00.340 --> 00:40:04.160 And that's because I don't like you guys, but I feel like I can do a better job. 00:40:04.380 --> 00:40:11.200 All of us should hear kids ministry is one of the reasons we always hold up as a unique 00:40:11.200 --> 00:40:14.720 thing that people come to the building for, which is for sure. 00:40:14.780 --> 00:40:14.960 True. 00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:17.640 If you're early in your spiritual walk, you haven't had some of those epiphanies you're 00:40:17.640 --> 00:40:23.820 talking about, but I do think a lot of churches are figuring out how to distribute the development 00:40:23.820 --> 00:40:25.140 discipleship of kids. 00:40:25.920 --> 00:40:31.080 And so we're, that is one, that is one of the barriers is interesting. 00:40:31.180 --> 00:40:31.480 Yes. 00:40:31.680 --> 00:40:34.640 That's one of the barriers too, for a lot of the micrositing stuff. 00:40:34.640 --> 00:40:39.080 Cause whenever you talk about like small groups, microsites, um, community groups, missional 00:40:39.080 --> 00:40:42.100 communities, the question always is, what are you going to do with the kids? 00:40:42.440 --> 00:40:42.780 Right. 00:40:43.020 --> 00:40:46.080 And we're figuring that out now in this time period. 00:40:46.140 --> 00:40:50.580 So that that is no longer an obstacle because we've already got that figured out. 00:40:50.620 --> 00:40:51.660 We did it in COVID season. 00:40:51.800 --> 00:40:52.840 We can do it here. 00:40:53.080 --> 00:40:58.640 And that will unlock all kinds of scalability for us as the big C church, like we've never 00:40:58.640 --> 00:40:59.180 seen before. 00:40:59.440 --> 00:41:03.140 But there's, there's other things too, where people, you know, we're calling them up on 00:41:03.140 --> 00:41:03.480 the phone. 00:41:03.580 --> 00:41:07.660 They're having like these personal interactions and they're saying things like, you guys never 00:41:07.660 --> 00:41:08.540 called me before. 00:41:10.740 --> 00:41:22.800 And so now, now we're like having these personal conversations, we're praying with people and 00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:26.720 the people are telling us, this is more meaningful to me than Sunday. 00:41:27.320 --> 00:41:28.080 Thank you. 00:41:29.180 --> 00:41:36.400 And so if that's true and what is also true, we did like this, uh, Barna check-in thing 00:41:36.400 --> 00:41:37.860 that a lot of churches are doing right now. 00:41:38.320 --> 00:41:45.080 And we got results back that were surprising to us, but not that unlike what are a lot of 00:41:45.080 --> 00:41:48.940 other large churches are experiencing too, where there were three basic questions. 00:41:48.940 --> 00:41:52.540 When it's time to go back to the building, you know, what are your expectations? 00:41:53.660 --> 00:41:56.780 Um, and question number one, what are the answer? 00:41:56.860 --> 00:41:59.820 Number one response was, Oh, I'll come back. 00:41:59.860 --> 00:42:02.400 You guys, I'm in, you guys do whatever you want. 00:42:02.560 --> 00:42:03.240 I'm in. 00:42:03.320 --> 00:42:03.640 Right. 00:42:03.880 --> 00:42:04.100 Right. 00:42:04.140 --> 00:42:08.040 That was, that was only 19% said that. 00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:08.840 Hmm. 00:42:09.300 --> 00:42:12.200 13% said, these stats are your church, right? 00:42:12.340 --> 00:42:14.320 These, so 19% at West side. 00:42:14.400 --> 00:42:14.640 Okay. 00:42:14.780 --> 00:42:15.240 Keep going. 00:42:15.300 --> 00:42:15.600 I'm sorry. 00:42:16.740 --> 00:42:20.820 Um, and if I get the percentages a little off, it's because they were moving around a little 00:42:20.820 --> 00:42:26.120 bit as the survey went through, but the general, the general thing was true. 00:42:26.360 --> 00:42:26.800 Okay. 00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:28.380 So here's, here's the other thing. 00:42:28.440 --> 00:42:31.500 13% said, I'm not coming back until there's a vaccine. 00:42:32.680 --> 00:42:33.120 Wow. 00:42:33.380 --> 00:42:33.620 That's fair. 00:42:33.940 --> 00:42:39.240 And all the rest of them, 69% is, I will only come back with proper health and safety 00:42:39.240 --> 00:42:40.120 measures in place. 00:42:41.500 --> 00:42:45.260 So we just got this big old indication right there. 00:42:45.980 --> 00:42:53.160 Whenever that time comes, whether it is when gatherings can be tens, fifties, or thousands, 00:42:53.700 --> 00:42:59.120 the way church is going to look in large gatherings will be different. 00:42:59.380 --> 00:43:03.000 It has to be, or we're only going to have 20% of the people show up. 00:43:03.140 --> 00:43:08.460 We might be actually okay with that, knowing that the rest of the 80% are online, getting 00:43:08.460 --> 00:43:13.100 the job done in their homes and in missional communities and stuff like that anyway, which 00:43:13.100 --> 00:43:20.500 kind of brings the question then, if we're getting twice as much work done, twice as much 00:43:20.500 --> 00:43:25.260 discipleship for half the cost, why would we want to go back to the building? 00:43:25.680 --> 00:43:27.540 So you use it for something different. 00:43:28.220 --> 00:43:28.480 Yes. 00:43:28.800 --> 00:43:32.460 Like that's the, like, that's what we, we have this incredible opportunity. 00:43:32.880 --> 00:43:38.680 To go, to go into the building with a new objective for what happens in the building. 00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:39.400 Yes. 00:43:39.480 --> 00:43:44.720 If you happen to be a church where you, you've discovered that you're delivering some of the, 00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:49.460 some, probably some of the same value, but way more efficiently through all these digital 00:43:49.460 --> 00:43:52.320 tools, you have this incredible asset. 00:43:52.860 --> 00:43:53.860 So what is it? 00:43:53.880 --> 00:43:58.400 And worship is one of those, like for, for the body of believers to be in corporate worship 00:43:58.400 --> 00:44:02.800 where the Holy Spirit comes into a room, like you, I can be moved through worship. 00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:03.240 Online. 00:44:03.600 --> 00:44:05.960 I am authentically worshiping. 00:44:06.300 --> 00:44:07.640 It's different when you're in there. 00:44:07.720 --> 00:44:08.400 And so, okay, great. 00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:11.420 How do we lean into that unique thing that can happen in a building? 00:44:11.580 --> 00:44:13.820 What community things can happen in a building? 00:44:13.960 --> 00:44:15.240 How can you raise the value? 00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:18.300 Like I think about for Leah and I got three little kids. 00:44:18.980 --> 00:44:19.720 You know what? 00:44:19.800 --> 00:44:26.040 If we could do date night and church in one, that sounds pretty amazing for us in a week. 00:44:26.040 --> 00:44:31.900 Like if we could come and kids club doubled as a babysitter and we could drop off our kids. 00:44:32.040 --> 00:44:33.040 So crossers is a bit different. 00:44:33.140 --> 00:44:35.940 So this next thing I'm going to say, I don't know if everyone will love, but like I can grab 00:44:35.940 --> 00:44:41.400 a beer and she can grab a glass of wine and then we can go into church and we can have 00:44:41.400 --> 00:44:43.340 an immersive church experience. 00:44:43.340 --> 00:44:47.520 And then come out and chat about it a little bit and probably run into some of our friends 00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:50.320 who are in a similar life stage before we go grab our kids from kids club. 00:44:51.260 --> 00:44:56.900 That's an offering that a building can do that, that I can't, I can't get on one. 00:44:57.240 --> 00:45:01.880 And so, and it may or may not have anything to do with a sermon or worship music or the 00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:03.800 normal liturgies we're thinking of. 00:45:04.620 --> 00:45:05.060 Right. 00:45:05.420 --> 00:45:10.560 So as, as we, as we go forward or go, we think about bringing buildings back in, it's great. 00:45:10.700 --> 00:45:11.860 What do these add? 00:45:12.240 --> 00:45:15.400 Cause we're, we're not digital focus. 00:45:15.400 --> 00:45:16.720 We're not building focus. 00:45:16.900 --> 00:45:18.300 We're people focused. 00:45:18.300 --> 00:45:26.320 So what do people need to help them know Jesus, accelerate their growth to Jesus, accelerate 00:45:26.320 --> 00:45:30.020 their path to community, whatever they, whatever you're trying to do, but pick, potentially 00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:35.440 pick a new objective or a sharper one for what happens in your building and only bring it 00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:36.680 back to do that thing. 00:45:37.560 --> 00:45:37.800 Yes. 00:45:38.440 --> 00:45:43.400 So to your point, some of the things that I've got like on this list of proposal things that 00:45:43.400 --> 00:45:44.200 I'm like submitting. 00:45:44.680 --> 00:45:50.820 One of the things is to only use the building for like monthly or quarterly events, like 00:45:50.820 --> 00:45:51.460 the big ones. 00:45:51.980 --> 00:45:54.740 And when we do the big ones, we blow them out. 00:45:55.020 --> 00:46:01.880 Like just big time, high production that we can spend a lot of time working up toward, 00:46:02.220 --> 00:46:04.220 setting up the stage, doing all these things. 00:46:04.220 --> 00:46:07.360 So like when we launch a series, we're going to do it big. 00:46:07.420 --> 00:46:11.740 When we do Christmas, when we do Easter, we do back to whatever that happens to be. 00:46:11.740 --> 00:46:15.620 Do it really, really big, bigger than we've ever done it. 00:46:16.340 --> 00:46:22.960 And we do it once a quarter or, or whatever, you know, and we can spend all quarter for 00:46:22.960 --> 00:46:27.000 that special event and have everybody there on those big things. 00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.900 And knowing that it only happens about once a quarter, if the COVID thing is still a factor, 00:46:31.900 --> 00:46:38.040 we can spread out those, those experiences over the course of a week to disperse the crowd 00:46:38.040 --> 00:46:38.620 a little bit. 00:46:38.620 --> 00:46:43.000 It's going to make it a whole lot easier than to try to pull that off every single Sunday 00:46:43.000 --> 00:46:49.500 because the dispersal of that will, will grind our staff into the ground. 00:46:49.500 --> 00:46:54.200 Because if you're thinking like in my mind, I'm just like right now we've have like four 00:46:54.200 --> 00:46:56.180 services at our largest campus, right? 00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:05.280 815, 930, 11 and five already online on demand is already bigger than our five. 00:47:05.420 --> 00:47:11.480 It's like, um, factors of magnitude bigger, our on-demand audience than the five o'clock 00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:11.840 PM. 00:47:11.980 --> 00:47:12.400 Right. 00:47:13.060 --> 00:47:16.760 It, depending upon which measures you use, which I use like super conservative measures. 00:47:16.840 --> 00:47:20.120 We can talk about that at a different time, but you know, it's bigger than any other service 00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:21.480 depending upon the way that you measure it. 00:47:21.680 --> 00:47:21.880 Right. 00:47:22.260 --> 00:47:27.980 So, but in COVID season or post COVID when all these safety measures have to be in place, 00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:28.940 what is that going to look like? 00:47:29.160 --> 00:47:35.240 You know, we can't have an 815 and a 930 and a one hour service because of the turnaround 00:47:35.240 --> 00:47:40.060 time that you will need to clean up and do, and then space people out. 00:47:40.200 --> 00:47:41.660 Are we going to do more services? 00:47:41.660 --> 00:47:43.500 Are we going to space them out two hours? 00:47:43.680 --> 00:47:50.740 So now we're talking about Saturday, Sunday, all day, having this huge building that is 00:47:50.740 --> 00:47:56.920 optimized for thousands of people, not for fifties or hundreds and spacing out all the 00:47:56.920 --> 00:47:58.280 chairs, cleaning up afterwards. 00:47:58.360 --> 00:48:00.480 That is a nightmare for staff. 00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:04.600 I mean, you just, you think about that and even the staff that have been redeployed toward 00:48:04.600 --> 00:48:08.920 call centers that are loving it by the way, because they're having, they're praying with 00:48:08.920 --> 00:48:11.340 folks, they're awakening their pastoral calling like never before. 00:48:11.340 --> 00:48:14.100 And now you're going to tell them, Oh, we're going to pivot again. 00:48:14.320 --> 00:48:19.060 And instead of you working like two services, two or three services in a morning, you're 00:48:19.060 --> 00:48:20.840 going to work all weekend. 00:48:22.100 --> 00:48:24.840 And you're going to clean up every single time. 00:48:25.420 --> 00:48:25.540 Yeah. 00:48:25.860 --> 00:48:26.840 How is that going to feel? 00:48:26.840 --> 00:48:34.160 So in my mind, if we, if we take it and say, all right, we're going to do this once a quarter, 00:48:34.280 --> 00:48:40.840 once a month, whatever we can spread out and disperse and do it in a sustainable fashion with 00:48:40.840 --> 00:48:47.140 the staff that we currently have, knowing that the primary expression will be in neighborhood 00:48:47.140 --> 00:48:51.760 communities, in, in online, in homes. 00:48:52.140 --> 00:48:58.300 And another thing that I'm proposing too, is that we replace our small group ministry with 00:48:58.300 --> 00:48:59.440 this new missional community thing. 00:48:59.820 --> 00:49:01.100 So there's no competition. 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:05.680 So in other words, no more small groups, all of our small groups are going to be these 00:49:05.680 --> 00:49:07.580 community group, missional community things. 00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:12.660 And they'll all be watch parties that do it whenever is most convenient for their neighborhood 00:49:12.660 --> 00:49:13.640 once a week. 00:49:14.320 --> 00:49:18.020 And knowing that daily they're still, we're still going to be doing the online stuff that 00:49:18.020 --> 00:49:18.740 we're always doing. 00:49:19.040 --> 00:49:23.820 So every day they're going to get it just like they do right now, except now they'll be able 00:49:23.820 --> 00:49:30.180 to go down the street and meet with 20 or 30 other people, have a barbecue, watch the service, 00:49:30.340 --> 00:49:33.520 which is, which is designed for that type of environment. 00:49:34.140 --> 00:49:38.860 And then once a month you have this huge blowout or once a quarter, you have this huge blowout. 00:49:38.980 --> 00:49:40.220 We baptize a bunch of people. 00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:42.520 We have a concert gathering together. 00:49:42.720 --> 00:49:42.980 Love it. 00:49:42.980 --> 00:49:45.980 The thing is, there's already families that are doing this right now. 00:49:46.560 --> 00:49:51.760 We've already had families do this in other parts of Olathe and in Lenexa, even before 00:49:51.760 --> 00:49:52.080 COVID. 00:49:52.240 --> 00:49:56.460 And I guarantee you they're doing it right now because that is their primary expression 00:49:56.460 --> 00:49:56.900 of church. 00:49:56.900 --> 00:49:58.920 And they would come to the big box about once a month. 00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:03.780 So I'm just taking that basic model that organically already happened. 00:50:04.020 --> 00:50:09.180 And I'm saying that is the model now, because it's the only one that's going to function with 00:50:09.180 --> 00:50:12.780 any kind of, you know, man, just the thought. 00:50:12.980 --> 00:50:21.320 Of trying to do kids ministry and, you know, big box experience in this phased COVID season 00:50:21.320 --> 00:50:22.320 gives me hives. 00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:26.420 Because it's just way too much work for what you're getting out of it. 00:50:27.620 --> 00:50:30.120 But if we can, and everybody else knows it too. 00:50:30.320 --> 00:50:33.920 And there's a bunch of people who think, man, I don't want to go back to the big box because 00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:36.140 I don't know what kind of contagions are going on there. 00:50:36.200 --> 00:50:37.500 You know, how they're cleaning. 00:50:37.860 --> 00:50:42.260 I will minimize my surface area of risk by going down the street. 00:50:42.480 --> 00:50:43.160 I'll do that. 00:50:43.820 --> 00:50:47.560 You know, and so that right there is leadership development. 00:50:48.080 --> 00:50:55.200 It would be so exciting to me to see us start figuring out the hybrid of mega church and 00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:57.820 home church or missional church, missional community stuff. 00:50:58.300 --> 00:51:02.900 I think, I mean, any thriving church has had to have that aptitude continuum of temple 00:51:02.900 --> 00:51:03.300 and home. 00:51:03.520 --> 00:51:04.920 Like you can't only do one. 00:51:05.020 --> 00:51:06.720 And so the mega church has that continuum. 00:51:07.220 --> 00:51:09.580 There's got to, even the home churches are hurting right now. 00:51:10.000 --> 00:51:13.680 I can't go to my 25 person home church gathering right now. 00:51:13.760 --> 00:51:17.860 And so it's interesting on both ends of the spectrum, you're having to figure out if you 00:51:17.860 --> 00:51:20.460 weren't prepared digitally, this is a really tough time. 00:51:20.640 --> 00:51:26.360 So as more things come online, no matter who you are, figuring out how you can win. 00:51:26.920 --> 00:51:32.220 And so I, as you were describing some of that missional community stuff, I thought how that, 00:51:32.340 --> 00:51:36.280 which is organic and sometimes it's faulted at like, man, is it, does it ever really grow? 00:51:36.380 --> 00:51:37.560 Does it ever really reproduce? 00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:42.400 Does it ever, how do you give it an influx of resources so that it can expand? 00:51:42.400 --> 00:51:42.760 Yeah. 00:51:45.280 --> 00:51:50.500 So to take, to take Randy, to take the leader in there, to model it on the big screen of 00:51:50.500 --> 00:51:55.740 the mega church is really interesting to even use the buildings to go, we're not doing weekend 00:51:55.740 --> 00:52:00.060 services maybe in our buildings for the next few months, but what we could do on Tuesday 00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:05.920 night is the four or five, two, four, four zip code hosted by the missional community leader. 00:52:05.920 --> 00:52:08.140 Like we're going to help them throw at the bill. 00:52:08.240 --> 00:52:12.600 Like, so it's a safe third space where people can come socially distance barbecue. 00:52:13.700 --> 00:52:17.360 Now they take it from there and run like now they're out of the building after that one, 00:52:17.420 --> 00:52:20.360 but we can, so figuring out how to overlap some of these. 00:52:20.360 --> 00:52:26.700 Neighborhood home base and things that we, ah, we've always been so attracted to in principle, 00:52:26.700 --> 00:52:28.460 they just fit and sound right. 00:52:28.880 --> 00:52:34.820 And how do we accelerate and infuse them with resource of some of the mega church model that's 00:52:34.820 --> 00:52:36.540 about execution and drive. 00:52:36.880 --> 00:52:44.160 So what if we were to use the big box only for leadership development of those leaders who 00:52:44.160 --> 00:52:48.280 were, um, hosting these, uh, missional communities? 00:52:48.880 --> 00:52:54.560 So if I want to go to the big mo to the big box and I'm, we're only allowed 50 people, well, 00:52:54.560 --> 00:53:00.080 it's going to be those 50 leaders instead of just 50 rando people, you know, that may or may not be 00:53:00.080 --> 00:53:04.880 impacting their neighborhoods because we're very clear about what we're supposed to do as a church. 00:53:05.300 --> 00:53:09.920 So if you're going to limit us to 50, well, those 50 are going to be rock stars. 00:53:10.080 --> 00:53:15.020 Kind of like when Jesus only had the 12, they were rock stars. 00:53:15.020 --> 00:53:19.080 And so he could go saying, look, I did everything I was supposed to do. 00:53:19.800 --> 00:53:27.120 You know, I'm good with those 11, you know, that one, whatever, but those 11 were good. 00:53:27.460 --> 00:53:33.540 So if the state says, oh, you can only have 10 people, well, then we're just going back to Jesus, 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:38.500 you know, and we're going to dedicate all of our energies on that group of people, knowing 00:53:38.500 --> 00:53:41.460 that they will be leading others as well. 00:53:42.700 --> 00:53:44.900 It's not just micro sites. 00:53:44.900 --> 00:53:47.880 It's not just like we, we live pre COVID. 00:53:48.180 --> 00:53:52.940 We lived in this world that we thought was all these separate just, well, you're just a mega 00:53:52.940 --> 00:53:53.240 church. 00:53:53.240 --> 00:53:54.500 You're just a home church. 00:53:54.500 --> 00:53:55.700 You're just a micro site. 00:53:55.760 --> 00:53:56.940 You're just a missional community. 00:53:57.340 --> 00:54:03.200 It's the blending of these that is so interesting to me right now to go like, it's, it is the 00:54:03.200 --> 00:54:06.880 micro community while you're reaching tens of thousands of people potentially. 00:54:07.140 --> 00:54:14.520 Like you're, you're, it's a both and, and it's so hard to do the both and, but as movements 00:54:14.520 --> 00:54:18.880 now, I think we've got to step into how do we do the big and the small, how do we do the 00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:23.260 digital and the physical, how do we do the very personal and the macro ministry that we 00:54:23.260 --> 00:54:23.700 might do? 00:54:23.780 --> 00:54:31.620 Like it's all on the table and figuring out where we can win in the both and based on your 00:54:31.620 --> 00:54:35.920 ministry and your church feels like this is the, this is the moment to capture before 00:54:35.920 --> 00:54:38.400 all of this lifts. 00:54:38.720 --> 00:54:43.300 So let, let me ask this and let's, let's pivot as, as we're getting close to wrapping 00:54:43.300 --> 00:54:43.780 up here. 00:54:44.300 --> 00:54:46.860 Um, and let's just say it this way. 00:54:47.220 --> 00:54:50.560 There are people listening to this podcast that buy into what you're saying. 00:54:50.620 --> 00:54:51.620 Their leadership does not. 00:54:52.420 --> 00:54:56.180 So let's, let's pivot here and let's get a little practical. 00:54:56.180 --> 00:54:59.460 Oh, this, this entire conversation has been theoretical. 00:54:59.840 --> 00:55:02.380 So there are people where that are passionate about this. 00:55:02.380 --> 00:55:07.220 Now they, their leadership's not, how do you advise them to have the conversation? 00:55:07.220 --> 00:55:09.020 Cast vision direct. 00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:11.600 Uh, you guys are both high level leaders. 00:55:11.600 --> 00:55:13.920 How would you recommend things like that are handled? 00:55:14.240 --> 00:55:17.360 Submission to authority and honoring your leadership. 00:55:17.960 --> 00:55:20.120 I think you have to empathize with the fact that. 00:55:20.620 --> 00:55:26.300 Oftentimes the way that they have won the way that they have engaged in ministry. 00:55:26.420 --> 00:55:31.060 that there's a grieving process that if, if it's happening, they have to go through this. 00:55:31.060 --> 00:55:34.500 Like I used to watch people get lit up by my message. 00:55:35.020 --> 00:55:39.300 I used to go down and put my hand and pray on for someone down for, you know, like there's 00:55:39.300 --> 00:55:44.320 so much change that for many of us who are passionate about it, we've, we've crossed these 00:55:44.320 --> 00:55:49.060 bridges for the last many years, but we've got to give time and space for people to cross 00:55:49.060 --> 00:55:49.520 them with us. 00:55:49.520 --> 00:55:53.300 And then I think practically to help them do that, putting them in positions where they 00:55:53.300 --> 00:55:58.060 can win and then ensuring you're, you're looping back all of the life change stories. 00:55:58.420 --> 00:56:01.580 Like the, that's really what we're in this game for. 00:56:01.640 --> 00:56:05.480 And so if you're truly reaching new people for Jesus, if you're seeing people get baptized, 00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:09.720 you're seeing people grow and those tangible stories, whether they start to come in as now 00:56:09.720 --> 00:56:13.960 app reviews or Facebook comments or whatever, there's going to be a new way to get them. 00:56:14.420 --> 00:56:19.100 But you've got to do the feedback because so much of our leadership now is flying by 00:56:19.100 --> 00:56:21.080 instrument instead of by sight. 00:56:21.700 --> 00:56:27.480 And you have to take it on your responsibility to be the instrument of feedback to go, this is 00:56:27.480 --> 00:56:28.260 something's happening. 00:56:28.260 --> 00:56:31.500 God's at, God's at work here and patience and timing. 00:56:31.740 --> 00:56:38.160 Like I, you know, all the, everything does have to come together and, and, and you can sometimes 00:56:38.160 --> 00:56:42.960 see it before other people, but there there's often times also a reason why maybe it's not 00:56:44.100 --> 00:56:45.540 hitting all gears right away. 00:56:45.960 --> 00:56:48.500 Um, and that sometimes is even protection. 00:56:48.780 --> 00:56:53.040 So just being open to that and honoring your leader, I think is a big part of it. 00:56:53.220 --> 00:56:58.080 One of the other, uh, things that's a tool at our disposal that we have uniquely in this 00:56:58.080 --> 00:57:04.700 time that it's not that this kind of frustration didn't exist before it it's been there with 00:57:04.700 --> 00:57:06.180 any transition like this. 00:57:06.540 --> 00:57:11.540 But now you have the unique opportunity to just blame it on the virus because it's forcing 00:57:11.540 --> 00:57:16.400 us to do things that we probably wouldn't have chosen to do otherwise. 00:57:17.320 --> 00:57:22.520 And so when I love that, you know, you're flying by instrument instead of, you know, by 00:57:22.520 --> 00:57:23.820 sight, which is awesome. 00:57:24.320 --> 00:57:30.400 And that is what makes your, uh, metrics and your analytics so important in this time. 00:57:30.460 --> 00:57:32.320 You're hitting something with the engagement thing. 00:57:32.440 --> 00:57:36.120 I mean, I think online gives us such an opportunity to have a breadth of reach. 00:57:36.560 --> 00:57:36.960 Yeah. 00:57:37.180 --> 00:57:40.440 Great, great leaders can smell that coming. 00:57:40.440 --> 00:57:46.960 If you are at all trying to, to, to prop up a number that just like, if you're taking your 00:57:46.960 --> 00:57:50.680 Facebook impressions, which is valuable for something, but then trying to go like, see what 00:57:50.680 --> 00:57:57.780 you, to move people like the inciting incident of the virus will move a great leader to a 00:57:57.780 --> 00:58:02.280 place of, of, of introspection and reflection and how are we going to tackle this thing? 00:58:02.400 --> 00:58:07.220 But then to your point, Jason, like it's, you need down the funnel metrics to go like, no, 00:58:07.300 --> 00:58:11.080 here's, here's the real stuff that, that is happening as a result of this. 00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:15.900 I think that's what attaches them to the great, I mean, in the past, you know, five years ago, 00:58:15.900 --> 00:58:22.500 a lot of us were talking about a future state where certain models might not work, which is 00:58:22.500 --> 00:58:25.020 valuable, but it's very different. 00:58:25.020 --> 00:58:28.220 Like that's still a manufactured threat. 00:58:28.940 --> 00:58:33.420 You take advantage of the fact that right now there is a very real threat to our model 00:58:33.420 --> 00:58:36.700 ministry and not to our, not to our model ministry. 00:58:36.820 --> 00:58:39.100 There's a threat to our ability to fulfill the great commission. 00:58:39.340 --> 00:58:42.700 And as followers of Jesus, we get hyped up on going like, great. 00:58:43.040 --> 00:58:44.960 The gospel is, is resilient. 00:58:45.480 --> 00:58:47.560 So, so what, what's our way around? 00:58:47.660 --> 00:58:48.540 How are we going to do this? 00:58:48.540 --> 00:58:50.860 And we, we just got to capitalize on that the best that we can. 00:58:51.200 --> 00:58:51.540 Love that. 00:58:51.640 --> 00:58:51.780 Yeah. 00:58:51.820 --> 00:58:55.440 And that's, that's going to be a great place to, to land, land the plane. 00:58:55.440 --> 00:58:59.660 It's, I think God has his church going through them for a reason. 00:58:59.660 --> 00:59:03.040 I think there's, there's a lesson to be learned in this. 00:59:03.040 --> 00:59:08.000 And in the process of God breaking the model of church, not his church, but the model of 00:59:08.000 --> 00:59:12.940 the church, you know, I've, I've never known in scripture where God breaks something and 00:59:12.940 --> 00:59:15.300 then puts it back together exactly the way that it was. 00:59:15.300 --> 00:59:21.020 Usually in that breaking process, there's, there's a humbling and adaptation of something to get 00:59:21.020 --> 00:59:25.580 it more in tune with the, the, the glory and the purpose that God wanted for it. 00:59:25.580 --> 00:59:31.860 And so I'm, I'm anxious to see how the church is going to evolve in the season. 00:59:31.860 --> 00:59:38.840 We just did a podcast with Ed right before COVID and with Ed Stetzer and, and, and literally 00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:45.020 the conversation with Ed is Ed, we talk, all this needs to change literally year after year, 00:59:45.300 --> 00:59:46.860 week after week, month after month. 00:59:46.860 --> 00:59:49.580 Jeff, we say we need change and nothing ever changes. 00:59:49.580 --> 00:59:51.580 Ed, what do we have to do to change? 00:59:51.580 --> 00:59:55.220 And it's like, Jeff, I don't know that you, you're going to see the change. 00:59:55.220 --> 01:00:00.220 And then like later in the podcast, he says something about COVID and then March 8th happened 01:00:00.220 --> 01:00:02.220 in the entire world, like changed. 01:00:02.580 --> 01:00:07.580 And, and it's, it's, it's kind of bittersweet in this moment to look and to see God, God's 01:00:07.580 --> 01:00:09.300 in control of all of this. 01:00:09.620 --> 01:00:14.720 And, and, and as a result of it, things are going to work to, to the, to the, to his glory 01:00:14.720 --> 01:00:16.100 ultimately throughout it. 01:00:16.100 --> 01:00:20.240 And we are just mere pawns and pieces serving him in that. 01:00:20.240 --> 01:00:25.260 And I'm so anxious and so appreciative of this change and where we're going. 01:00:25.980 --> 01:00:30.340 You know, I can, even from my experience, the churches that, that were, that are making, 01:00:30.460 --> 01:00:34.180 picking up those phone calls and having those conversations and building that, the people 01:00:34.180 --> 01:00:37.500 are saying, yeah, I'm at, I'm at a better spiritual level now than I was with the 01:00:37.500 --> 01:00:37.860 events. 01:00:38.140 --> 01:00:41.660 Like there's, there's lessons in here that we, we church, we need to, we need to learn 01:00:41.660 --> 01:00:42.040 from that. 01:00:42.040 --> 01:00:47.180 So, so Matt, Jason, man, uh, I think this is the least I've ever said in a podcast. 01:00:47.180 --> 01:00:49.880 And this is the most fun I've had through it. 01:00:49.880 --> 01:00:53.400 Cause I just sat back and it's like, I'm just going to listen to these guys. 01:00:53.400 --> 01:00:57.160 Um, Hey Ray, we need to just give them a podcast. 01:00:57.260 --> 01:01:02.300 Like, let's just get the two of them doing a digital podcast network, son. 01:01:02.400 --> 01:01:03.720 I keep talking about it, man. 01:01:03.800 --> 01:01:05.400 This needs to be a thing. 01:01:05.820 --> 01:01:06.500 All right. 01:01:06.500 --> 01:01:08.520 So, so we're, we're going to, we're going to revisit that. 01:01:08.580 --> 01:01:09.440 We'll come back around. 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:11.800 But seriously, gentlemen, thank you very much for this. 01:01:11.880 --> 01:01:18.060 This was a great conversation, uh, for Ray, for Jason, for, for Matt, this is Jeff, the 01:01:18.060 --> 01:01:18.980 church digital. 01:01:19.500 --> 01:01:20.320 Thanks for being here. 01:01:20.340 --> 01:01:21.720 And we'll see you next time here at the podcast. 01:01:21.840 --> 01:01:22.460 Y'all have a good day. 01:01:22.460 --> 01:01:26.800 You, I knew that, that, um, that I'd play chess this way, but I wanted to make sure it wasn't 01:01:26.800 --> 01:01:33.220 just weenie hut juniors kid chess back in the day, but when a pawn crosses the board, if 01:01:33.220 --> 01:01:34.960 you've lost your queen, it gets promoted. 01:01:34.960 --> 01:01:36.400 You could, you could, yeah, exactly. 01:01:37.040 --> 01:01:39.260 And church online is just crossed the board. 01:01:39.880 --> 01:01:40.180 Interesting. 01:01:40.860 --> 01:01:41.020 Yeah. 01:01:41.160 --> 01:01:41.320 Yeah. 01:01:43.820 --> 01:01:44.320 That's all. 01:01:45.040 --> 01:01:45.840 That's good. 01:01:45.840 --> 01:01:46.740 Right there. 01:01:47.140 --> 01:01:48.160 That's good stuff. 01:01:48.620 --> 01:01:48.800 Yeah. 01:01:49.320 --> 01:01:50.600 That's got to get back in there. 01:01:51.500 --> 01:01:53.600 We'll figure out a way to, to inception. 01:01:53.780 --> 01:01:54.360 Anyways, guys.