WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.780 All right. Episode 78 of the Church Digital Podcast, once again, powered by Stadia Church Planting. 00:00:05.300 --> 00:00:10.020 Jeff here. All right. We're coming out of this COVID season. Maybe. We may be coming out of this 00:00:10.020 --> 00:00:14.480 COVID season. It's too soon to tell. I think I see the light at the end of the tunnel, although 00:00:14.480 --> 00:00:19.780 really this could just be like one tunnel and there's a whole other COVID 2.0 tunnel coming up 00:00:19.780 --> 00:00:24.500 soon. Who knows? God knows. Okay. God knows. God knows. We can say that, right? Other than God, 00:00:24.500 --> 00:00:30.580 who knows? But one thing that, of course, in this COVID season, this podcast and other resources, 00:00:30.820 --> 00:00:36.900 we're learning things throughout this season. And one of the things that we've learned is the 00:00:36.900 --> 00:00:42.100 importance of community. We're seeing small groups created online. We're seeing churches 00:00:42.100 --> 00:00:48.440 wrestle with this idea of digital community and engaging in those areas. And I love those 00:00:48.440 --> 00:00:53.260 conversations. One thing that I really have not seen a lot of traction with, or maybe it's just 00:00:53.260 --> 00:00:58.140 I'm not hearing these conversations, but it's someone that centers around like women's ministry, 00:00:58.720 --> 00:01:05.760 felt needs, creating community centered around those community online. And so with this podcast, 00:01:05.760 --> 00:01:10.500 I just wanted to shed some light on, hey, maybe there's some opportunities to engage in already 00:01:10.500 --> 00:01:17.040 existing communities online, like a women's ministry, which has just has a phenomenal rich opportunity, 00:01:17.040 --> 00:01:22.520 as you'll explore in this podcast. So we're bringing in Christelle Acevedo, longtime friend of the 00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:29.440 podcast here. She's been friends with Ray DeArmis and I for years. And she is currently on staff at 00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:35.180 Transformation Church, TC. You're going to hear it referenced a lot on the show that way, TC. But 00:01:35.180 --> 00:01:44.380 she is one of their content creators. And her husband's a storyteller, video editor on the communications 00:01:44.380 --> 00:01:52.180 team, Alex. And just they have a really rich family DNA when it comes towards creating content and 00:01:52.180 --> 00:01:57.420 helping the church tell more effective stories. And so we wanted to bring Christelle in because 00:01:57.420 --> 00:02:03.500 Transformation Church, TC is doing some phenomenal stuff, some really interesting stuff in women's 00:02:03.500 --> 00:02:11.100 ministry, maybe some of these other groups. But more than even just like the felt needs, what I think TC 00:02:11.100 --> 00:02:19.020 is starting to really scratch the surface on is how do we take content and how do we build community around it? 00:02:19.180 --> 00:02:26.000 Like how can the content fuel the community that allows for engagement? And what does that community 00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:32.660 most effectively look like? And so to that end, we're bringing in actually, to be honest, like I didn't 00:02:32.660 --> 00:02:38.520 even be part of this conversation. Ray and Christelle have a great friendship and I had a scheduling 00:02:38.520 --> 00:02:45.140 conflict and I bowed out. So in this conversation, we're bringing in Ray DeArmis, who's effectively host for 00:02:45.140 --> 00:02:51.960 the church digital podcast in this episode. And Christelle Acevedo, once again, content creator for 00:02:51.960 --> 00:02:58.280 Transformation Church in a conversation that I'm calling Online Women's Ministry and Creating Community 00:02:58.280 --> 00:03:01.860 Centered Around Content. Okay, everybody, here you go. 00:03:02.380 --> 00:03:11.120 At TC, my title or role description, if you want to call it that, is content creator. And I love that 00:03:11.120 --> 00:03:17.720 because it sounds like a fake job. It sounds like a millennial job. We're like, what's a content creator? 00:03:18.420 --> 00:03:19.620 Whatever I want it to be. 00:03:20.180 --> 00:03:26.320 Exactly. That's the beauty of it. So it looks like a lot of different things. I work very closely with 00:03:26.320 --> 00:03:32.300 Pastor Derwin. He is writing books. He just, we're getting ready to release The Good Life, which is his 00:03:32.300 --> 00:03:38.460 latest book. And he actually started writing another book today because he's just ready for it. Then the 00:03:38.460 --> 00:03:47.220 Lord has illuminated his mind, you know. So I help him with his book writing, writing questions, just 00:03:47.220 --> 00:03:52.480 helping him in general with all his writing projects because he also writes articles or has different 00:03:52.480 --> 00:03:57.960 things going on with different places. He also has a podcast called Marinate on That. So I basically 00:03:57.960 --> 00:04:05.620 produce that podcast and just help steer that and cast a vision for that. So that's all Pastor Derwin's side 00:04:05.620 --> 00:04:13.260 of things. The other part of my job is equipping and discipleship. So creating resources for our small 00:04:13.260 --> 00:04:18.100 groups or for individuals who are wanting to learn more about the Bible or learn more about what it means 00:04:18.100 --> 00:04:25.360 to be a Christian or a lot of our most of all of our small groups are sermon based. So we create a sermon 00:04:25.360 --> 00:04:32.240 based study guide for all our small groups. And that's what they walk through so that they can. So we 00:04:32.240 --> 00:04:39.820 equip our group leaders to lead their groups. And we're in this space now where we're just trying to 00:04:39.820 --> 00:04:47.080 create a lot of digital resources and figure out what it looks like to disciple people online. So we've 00:04:47.080 --> 00:04:52.340 been on the front end of that trying to figure that out and creating resources and content for that. 00:04:53.180 --> 00:04:58.180 Yeah, what really caught my eye is specifically what you guys have geared in towards women in the last 00:04:58.180 --> 00:05:02.680 few weeks, particularly with Vicki, because what Derwin does is great. And I think Derwin's got a vibrant 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:07.720 personality, you know, and for those of you don't follow him on Twitter or on Instagram or any of the 00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.340 socials, you should, because he really demonstrates like a pastor's heart and like how to shepherd people 00:05:12.340 --> 00:05:16.900 through some really tough topics online, which is great. But the other side of that, 00:05:17.060 --> 00:05:22.900 is Vicki, his wife, and what you guys have really dug into here in the online space. Why don't you 00:05:22.900 --> 00:05:24.680 explain to everybody what you've been doing for the last few weeks? 00:05:25.220 --> 00:05:29.460 Yeah, definitely. And something that I love about Vicki is that she is just an amazing 00:05:29.460 --> 00:05:34.900 disciple of Christ in her own right. Most of the times when I introduce her to people, 00:05:34.900 --> 00:05:39.520 I don't say she's the pastor's wife. I lead with, she's our executive directional strategist, 00:05:39.580 --> 00:05:45.660 because that's what she does. She's a very integral part of TC. And so she's also a very gifted Bible 00:05:45.660 --> 00:05:51.700 teacher. And I think for a long time, she was, had her hands and her head and all these other things, 00:05:51.700 --> 00:05:57.640 and couldn't focus on the teaching side of her giftings. And now she's just in a space where 00:05:57.640 --> 00:06:05.540 God has just called her and said, it's time. So we have been wanting to create a women's ministry. 00:06:05.540 --> 00:06:11.000 And this is something that we have been talking about pre-COVID. And so we were thinking about what, 00:06:11.000 --> 00:06:15.840 what does it look like to start a women's ministry at TC? Part of the tension is that our vision is to 00:06:15.840 --> 00:06:21.520 be a multi-ethnic, multi-generational, mission-shaped community. Therefore, we really focused on having 00:06:21.520 --> 00:06:25.060 all our groups be multi-ethnic, multi-generational. We didn't want to have all these like sub 00:06:25.060 --> 00:06:29.220 things like, this is a group for just women. This is a group for just moms. This is a group for just, 00:06:29.320 --> 00:06:34.740 you know, dads who love motorcycles. We wanted it to just be all multi-ethnic, multi-generational. But 00:06:34.740 --> 00:06:41.060 we realized that we were just in a place now within our, as we have grown, we just celebrated 10 years 00:06:41.060 --> 00:06:46.600 where we wanted to start a women's ministry and a men's ministry and still keep the multi-ethnic, 00:06:46.700 --> 00:06:51.660 multi-generational vision within that. So we had been talking about that and we had been planning 00:06:51.660 --> 00:06:57.940 for our very first women's event and then COVID happened. So we had to cancel it. So we said, 00:06:58.020 --> 00:07:03.100 okay, what are we going to do? Because we have all this momentum and all these plans and we don't want 00:07:03.100 --> 00:07:09.440 to lose that. We don't want to lay that to the side just because we can't meet in person. So then we 00:07:09.440 --> 00:07:17.300 decided that we wanted to provide an online space for women for this ministry, which we're calling 00:07:17.300 --> 00:07:26.260 For Her because it's for her, for anybody, any woman, any age, any ethnicity. And so at first we did not 00:07:26.260 --> 00:07:31.920 realize how big this was going to be. And so we had planned to just host it on Zoom and we thought it'll 00:07:31.920 --> 00:07:37.360 be fine. We'll have some, you know, a few women jump on, Vicki will teach. We'll go through the book of 00:07:37.360 --> 00:07:45.180 Esther together. No big deal. We opened up registration and it was like the floodgates had opened up. And 00:07:45.180 --> 00:07:50.180 there were so many women who wanted to sign up and it got to the point where we decided to cut off 00:07:50.180 --> 00:07:56.400 registration because it was too many women and we were not going to fit on a Zoom call. Well, they didn't 00:07:56.400 --> 00:08:02.560 like that. And even it's funny because Pastor John said from the beginning, you can't, this is not how 00:08:02.560 --> 00:08:06.000 you guys meet. This is going to be big. There's going to be a lot of women who are going to want 00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.760 to do this. We're going to want to hear from Vicki who are going to want to connect with each other. 00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:15.660 And Vicki was like, no, it'll be fun. And so, you know, we tried it, but then we realized it, 00:08:15.840 --> 00:08:23.400 it wasn't fine. So we had to, we had to pivot all of a sudden. And that's when we decided to use Facebook 00:08:23.400 --> 00:08:31.140 Facebook and we created a Facebook group called For Her and decided to host teachings, video 00:08:31.140 --> 00:08:36.160 teachings on there, create a watch party so that we could all watch together, be chatting. And then 00:08:36.160 --> 00:08:43.840 we created subgroups that would be like small groups. So we had, we tapped like 21 women on the 00:08:43.840 --> 00:08:47.460 shoulder and said, Hey, can you lead a small group? Cause we all of a sudden we're just trying to like 00:08:47.460 --> 00:08:53.620 make it happen. And we have just amazing women servant leaders at TC. And so we created, I think 00:08:53.620 --> 00:09:02.360 21 or so small groups from that. So we had, uh, groups for those smaller, uh, small groups and then, 00:09:02.360 --> 00:09:06.080 yeah. So then we would watch the teaching together and they would go to their small groups 00:09:06.080 --> 00:09:11.500 for discussion time. At the same time, we still couldn't get all the women into small groups 00:09:11.500 --> 00:09:18.820 because it was too many women. And so we host, we would host a, um, like a chat within the large 00:09:18.820 --> 00:09:24.360 group for all the women who couldn't be in small groups. And that's just kind of how we've been 00:09:24.360 --> 00:09:30.200 running it. And that I think last week was the final week of the Esther study. And now we're trying 00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:36.360 to see how we're going to move forward with this group. That's good. What was the strategy in capping 00:09:36.360 --> 00:09:40.940 the small groups? Like what did you guys decide to cap those groups at that you were like, man, we can't 00:09:40.940 --> 00:09:44.340 fit everybody in a group. And what was the reasoning and thinking behind that? 00:09:44.340 --> 00:09:48.660 So Vicki's heart was really to keep the group small because we realized that when a group gets 00:09:48.660 --> 00:09:54.380 too big, it's just not conducive for conversation. There's going to be people who don't feel 00:09:54.380 --> 00:10:00.740 comfortable to speak up in a larger group. And we wanted it to feel intimate and just like a little 00:10:00.740 --> 00:10:06.240 tiny family, you know? So we wanted to keep the group small. And then at the same time, there was 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:13.460 only so many women leaders that we had because we honestly, like this was just like within a week, 00:10:13.460 --> 00:10:20.320 we had to just change our whole strategy from Zoom to Facebook and figure it all out. So we were able 00:10:20.320 --> 00:10:26.380 to find, like I said, I think 20 or 21 women to lead groups. And we wanted to keep maybe like 12 women 00:10:26.380 --> 00:10:33.600 per group, which is still kind of big. And then just go from there. And so that's like the reason we kept it. 00:10:33.640 --> 00:10:41.460 But that's also why we kept the large group open. And one of the other girls and I, we would chat with the 00:10:41.460 --> 00:10:42.080 ladies in there. 00:10:42.580 --> 00:10:50.180 21 groups, 12 women per group. It's over 240 people. I mean, that's a lot of movement in a very short 00:10:50.180 --> 00:10:56.400 period of time. And really, let me ask you, what were your expectations versus, hey, if you guys did a 00:10:56.400 --> 00:10:59.940 women's event in person, like, what was that going to look like versus doing it online? 00:11:00.700 --> 00:11:08.300 Yeah, so it was basically going to be a night for her. So just go get a babysitter, you know, have come 00:11:08.300 --> 00:11:14.320 hang out with us, forget about everything else, and just have this time for you, you know? Right. 00:11:14.980 --> 00:11:19.220 And we were going to have teaching, we're going to have music, it was basically going to be, we had 00:11:19.220 --> 00:11:22.620 these Wednesday night services. So it's going to be basically like one of our Wednesday night services, 00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:28.800 but for women only. And then we were going to point all these women to small groups. So we were still 00:11:28.800 --> 00:11:33.140 going to do small groups, but they were going to be in person in people's homes, etc. 00:11:33.360 --> 00:11:37.660 So the plan was still going to go to groups, but this obviously made a big shift in terms of, hey, 00:11:37.660 --> 00:11:41.960 we're going to do a big night versus, hey, we're going to do this consistently, like on a week to 00:11:41.960 --> 00:11:47.080 week basis. It's a big shift. That really is a big shift to be considered. What were some of the 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:51.340 things that you would look at and say, well, this is what we're losing out on by doing this digitally 00:11:51.340 --> 00:11:58.900 versus having it in person? Yeah, I think there was just, I think just that in-person 00:11:58.900 --> 00:12:04.320 connection, being able to see people and hug people and all that. I know that that's a huge 00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:16.240 deal. I think one of the obstacles was that not everyone is tech friendly. And so that was a big 00:12:16.240 --> 00:12:21.980 obstacle for us because again, we are multi-generational and sometimes older folks and sometimes even 00:12:21.980 --> 00:12:28.080 younger people just don't know where do I go to see a watch party and how do I click on this and 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:33.280 where's my small group and how do you join a Zoom? And so I think that was just one of the biggest 00:12:33.280 --> 00:12:38.900 obstacles. And in the beginning, it was a lot of helping people figure it out and putting out little 00:12:38.900 --> 00:12:44.440 fires all over the place of things not working properly. And so I would say that was just one of the 00:12:44.440 --> 00:12:50.500 biggest obstacles. I don't think we would have had that if we met in person, right? We wouldn't have all 00:12:50.500 --> 00:12:56.960 these technical difficulties, hopefully. Sure. But one of the amazing things is that we had women, even though 00:12:56.960 --> 00:13:04.960 there were only 250-ish women in groups, we had 800 women within the large group. And these are women 00:13:04.960 --> 00:13:13.100 from all over the country, not just local to TC. We had women from Canada and from Africa join it. Like, 00:13:13.160 --> 00:13:19.300 it's just been amazing to see these women connect from all over the world. And so I think that was 00:13:19.300 --> 00:13:24.920 something that we saw as a plus. Like, we are reaching so many more women in an age where they 00:13:24.920 --> 00:13:30.400 feel very disconnected. Right. So illuminate me a little bit more to what's going on with that. The 00:13:30.400 --> 00:13:35.440 800 people, is that how large the Facebook group overall has grown? Like in this four-week time, 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:40.440 it's boom, blossomed over 800 people. That's huge. Yeah. Yep. Yep. A lot of women. 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.480 That's good. And so give me an idea. Like, in terms of your Sunday morning makeup, in terms of the 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:50.340 different services and this kind of thing, how many women would you say attend TC versus, man, 00:13:50.380 --> 00:13:53.520 what's happening here within for her since you guys have done this now? 00:13:54.300 --> 00:14:01.080 I have no idea. I think on a Sunday morning regularly, like before, like COVID, when we would meet in 00:14:01.080 --> 00:14:09.040 person, there was about 2,500 people in general that would meet adults. I don't know, half of those 00:14:09.040 --> 00:14:14.680 are women at least. Sure. And to say that now 800 women are involved in some kind of discipleship 00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:19.720 process, I mean, that's huge, you know, and granted, not all of them, they're there, you know, 00:14:19.720 --> 00:14:24.620 where TC is, but still like, it's, it's a big thing to say that, you know, you guys made this shift, 00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.320 which was big. And, and even to see all these different people kind of forming community from 00:14:29.320 --> 00:14:33.580 different places around the world, sharing their story. And it could be, let me ask you, are there 00:14:33.580 --> 00:14:37.320 any stories of like evangelism that kind of came out of this? Like, Hey, my friend or my relative who 00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:42.620 wasn't connected to church is now digging into for her. What's going on there? There was this one 00:14:42.620 --> 00:14:52.680 woman who said that she, her husband had just taken his life recently, and she moved to Texas, because 00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:58.940 that's where one of her kids lived, and she wanted to be close to them. And she had felt just, you know, 00:14:59.000 --> 00:15:06.240 obviously, that's a tragedy to have to live through as a wife. Yeah. And so she was just obviously going 00:15:06.240 --> 00:15:12.780 through a terrible time and just feeling disconnected in a new place with no real community, no church 00:15:12.780 --> 00:15:20.420 community. And somehow she was, she got connected to the for her Facebook group. And it was just 00:15:20.420 --> 00:15:25.440 a blessing to her. And she like wrote this long message to us, letting us know how much she 00:15:25.440 --> 00:15:31.480 appreciated it, and how it was just a blessing to her in that time of her life. And I love those kind 00:15:31.480 --> 00:15:36.240 of stories, because we're making an impact on someone's life, and they don't even live within 00:15:36.240 --> 00:15:41.520 our state, you know, that's awesome. No, I think that's tremendous. And she's obviously very integrated. 00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:46.600 She's very much part of the community. She's that willing to share her story with you, which it's 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:51.780 hard. We've talked about this before for people to pass online from anonymity to community. It's very 00:15:51.780 --> 00:15:57.520 difficult for people to kind of break that barrier and say, here I am. I'm watching you guys. Here's my 00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:04.600 story. And I want to stay walking with you. And she's done that. And that's a big deal. So now looking 00:16:04.600 --> 00:16:10.400 ahead, what is for her look like? And I'm sure you guys are thinking about reopening, you guys are 00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:13.680 thinking about all sorts of things. What does this look like on in the future? Because you were looking 00:16:13.680 --> 00:16:21.120 at this as once a month. And now it's gone once a week, and growing. So obviously, there's big plans 00:16:21.120 --> 00:16:25.940 for this down the road. Definitely. Yeah. So we've been thinking a lot this week, meeting and praying and 00:16:25.940 --> 00:16:30.620 dreaming together. And so like I said, Pastor Darwin's new book, The Good Life is coming out. 00:16:30.880 --> 00:16:36.440 It releases June 2nd. As a church, we're going through the Good Life series, a sermon series, 00:16:36.780 --> 00:16:43.280 and that starts on May 31st. And so all of our small groups are going to be reading the Good Life 00:16:43.280 --> 00:16:48.400 book together and going through a conversation guide that we're creating to help facilitate 00:16:48.400 --> 00:16:55.380 conversation about the book. And so what we've decided to do is, within the Facebook group, 00:16:55.380 --> 00:17:01.520 we're going to host a watch party of our Sunday services. So that women, if they want to watch 00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:06.840 together, they can all congregate within the For Her Facebook group to watch the service together 00:17:06.840 --> 00:17:13.840 every Sunday. And then we are going to, we have a few women that we're asking to be servant leaders 00:17:13.840 --> 00:17:19.180 in the group as moderators. And they are going to be creating conversation using the questions from 00:17:19.180 --> 00:17:26.140 the guide to have conversation within the large group of women. Like just making posts, like sharing 00:17:26.140 --> 00:17:31.140 their own insights, encouraging the women to read the book along with them and share what they're 00:17:31.140 --> 00:17:35.980 learning, what God is showing them. And then we are also pointing them to our Good Life groups, 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.640 since all of our small groups are going to be walking through the Good Life. We're saying, 00:17:38.740 --> 00:17:42.740 if you want to be a part of a small group, you can be, it's not going to be a specifically like women 00:17:42.740 --> 00:17:47.120 only group, but it's a small group that is going to be walking through the Good Life together. 00:17:47.460 --> 00:17:51.860 So you guys are looking at this as a way to on-ramp people towards regular small groups, 00:17:51.940 --> 00:17:54.660 not necessarily to keep them in For Her small groups. 00:17:55.020 --> 00:17:55.360 Right. 00:17:55.820 --> 00:18:02.240 Understood. So if that's the case, is there hope to revamp or to re-up For Her down the road? Or 00:18:02.240 --> 00:18:06.100 is this just, hey, this is a one-off, we're going to leverage this to pull people into small groups, 00:18:06.120 --> 00:18:07.180 and then we're going to keep moving on? 00:18:07.780 --> 00:18:12.720 Yeah, no, I think we definitely want to keep it going. We see the desire of the women within our 00:18:12.720 --> 00:18:18.960 church to have this connection with other women. And so we want to keep the For Her Facebook page 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:24.400 going. We're creating like a content calendar for the group specifically so that we can always be 00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:30.460 sharing things on there. And we want to be just creating that space. I think the more we engage 00:18:30.460 --> 00:18:37.100 on it, the more other women are going to engage, if that makes sense. And so we just want to keep it 00:18:37.100 --> 00:18:43.520 going. And then we're just asking God to show us like, as we move, like we're taking it step by 00:18:43.520 --> 00:18:47.500 step. Like we did the Esther study together. Now we're going to go into the good life. And then we're 00:18:47.500 --> 00:18:52.400 going to see how it goes, how it moves in the fall as we begin to reopen and all of that. 00:18:53.240 --> 00:18:56.620 That's cool. That's really cool. And I know there's a lot of it that's still very ambiguous. 00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:01.240 Like we don't have a really well-defined sense of whatever kind of church future is going to look like 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:06.680 anywhere, really. I know some churches have reopened. Some have not. Some have not stopped 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.460 meeting. They've just kind of worked through whatever guidelines are there. And even with small 00:19:11.460 --> 00:19:16.080 groups in particular, this is a pretty big struggle because everybody's talking about big church 00:19:16.080 --> 00:19:21.940 reopening. Nobody's talked about small groups reopening and in terms of what that's going to 00:19:21.940 --> 00:19:27.020 look like. How much of that do you feel like in the immediate is going to continue to be digital at TC 00:19:27.020 --> 00:19:31.260 and how some of this is going to be effective? Oh yeah. No, everything. We're encouraging all our 00:19:31.260 --> 00:19:35.740 small groups to keep meeting online throughout the series, the good life series, which is an eight 00:19:35.740 --> 00:19:45.320 week series. So, I mean, we're just, we don't see, we would rather keep people as safe and healthy as 00:19:45.320 --> 00:19:52.340 possible than risk reopening to have to close down again because an outbreak occurs within our church. 00:19:52.440 --> 00:19:57.480 Like we don't want to risk that at all. And so, and the same with our small groups, like we, 00:19:57.720 --> 00:20:01.800 we are just encouraging everyone to meet through Zoom, meet online. 00:20:03.680 --> 00:20:07.160 And hopefully they can continue to do that. 00:20:07.160 --> 00:20:12.560 Let me ask, has there been a shift in terms of the thought process at TC as far as online 00:20:12.560 --> 00:20:17.260 discipleship and all this, since all this has started? Because I know like at times, like you and I 00:20:17.260 --> 00:20:21.400 talked before and it was like, not necessarily on their radar on the onset. Part of the reason is 00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:25.540 because, and this is a whole lot of churches, this is no offense to anybody, trying to reach their local 00:20:25.540 --> 00:20:30.060 community, but obviously now all of our local communities have moved online. And so, you know, 00:20:30.080 --> 00:20:35.280 how has that affected TC's discipleship strategy just kind of moving forward, looking at all the 00:20:35.280 --> 00:20:40.700 success that you guys have had, especially with this? Oh yeah. It's all changed. It has all changed. 00:20:40.800 --> 00:20:46.200 I think that, I think this was the wake up call that like our leadership team needed. And it's funny 00:20:46.200 --> 00:20:50.960 because our communications director said at the beginning of 2020 that this was going to be the year of 00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:55.000 digital. So back way back in January, he was talking about this has to be the year of digital. We're 00:20:55.000 --> 00:21:00.520 going to ramp up our, our online presence. We're going to change our website. They're working on a 00:21:00.520 --> 00:21:08.840 total website revamp. Right. And, um, and that was their foot. We hired a digital strategist who is 00:21:08.840 --> 00:21:15.880 just amazing and is so smart. And so we had already been moving in that direction. And then just when 00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:22.240 this happened, it just, Ooh, our digital strategist is very busy now. She has a lot of work to do. Um, 00:21:22.240 --> 00:21:29.240 and which is great because she's so amazing at what she does, but yeah, I think we are, um, just really 00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:34.240 trying to shift everything. And I think a lot of that is going to be reflected in our website and in the 00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:39.120 opportunities that we give people, even when it comes like the, for her was not the only online 00:21:39.120 --> 00:21:45.720 connection group that we created at the onset of this. We also had, um, started doing TC kids 00:21:45.720 --> 00:21:52.760 online, which we had never done before. And like zoom, like TC kids, zoom play dates. Um, we did a 00:21:52.760 --> 00:21:59.040 brain health awareness month in May. And so we had brain health chats every week, um, for the month of 00:21:59.040 --> 00:22:04.200 May, where we had different brain health experts at the last week we had a panel where they talked 00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:08.200 about brain health and they talked about what it means and like, like what it means to rest, what 00:22:08.200 --> 00:22:16.340 it means to stay healthy mentally and physically throughout this quarantine time. And it was great 00:22:16.340 --> 00:22:21.060 because we could point people to, we still have resources. We're still here for you. We're still 00:22:21.060 --> 00:22:25.240 providing care for you. We'll, we're still providing connection points for you, even though it's all 00:22:25.240 --> 00:22:31.380 online. That's good. And you feel like the church is really kind of absorbing this and tuning into it 00:22:31.380 --> 00:22:34.860 and feeling like they're part of this, right? Like this is a big deal where it's not to say we're 00:22:34.860 --> 00:22:40.860 putting content out. Are you guys getting feedback as far as like how it's going? Yeah, I think people, 00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:50.400 what we always try to do is create, um, ways like relational opportunities. And so a lot of that is just 00:22:50.400 --> 00:22:55.120 like, let's say in the chat, everything, every video that we premiere or go live with, there's always 00:22:55.120 --> 00:23:01.660 a chat and there's always engagers within the chat, asking questions, pointing to, uh, websites, um, 00:23:01.660 --> 00:23:06.300 giving information so that people know that we're not just, you're not just watching a video. We're here, 00:23:06.300 --> 00:23:10.540 we're watching it with you. We're having a discussion about it. If you have a question, I'm here to answer 00:23:10.540 --> 00:23:16.680 it. Um, so that's a big part of it. And then, um, like, so one of the other things is we are now doing 00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:23.600 membership online, which we had never, ever done before. And so, um, one of the biggest things that we 00:23:23.600 --> 00:23:29.800 wanted to make sure was that it wasn't just, all right, watch this video and sign a, sign a little 00:23:29.800 --> 00:23:33.860 thing at the end says, okay, I want to be a member of TC. Like we wanted it to be as relational as 00:23:33.860 --> 00:23:38.340 possible. So again, we had like a large group where we did like a teaching and then we broke up into 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:43.500 smaller groups where there was a basically like what, what used to be called table hosts, but there's 00:23:43.500 --> 00:23:50.420 no table now. Cause it's online. So a chat host, let's say, or a breakout host where, um, they would 00:23:50.420 --> 00:23:57.520 kind of lead in some discussion questions and, um, facilitate questions. And that was a relational 00:23:57.520 --> 00:24:02.720 touch point. And we had the same group, like the same host with the same group week to week so that 00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:08.140 they would create a bond. And then we're having like a social distancing drive by. Cause usually at the 00:24:08.140 --> 00:24:13.000 end of our membership classes, we, they get like a little gift. So we're going to do a drive by where 00:24:13.000 --> 00:24:16.440 they come to the church. We're going to stand six feet apart and wear masks and gloves and give them 00:24:16.440 --> 00:24:20.560 their gift because we, and say like, hi, and wave to them and say, we're so glad you're part of TC, 00:24:20.780 --> 00:24:26.640 you know? Um, so it's all about, um, I guess Jeff always uses that digital word, which sounds weird, 00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:30.440 but we're trying to figure out how can we be digital and physical at the same time? 00:24:30.860 --> 00:24:35.540 I'm mad. Cause I was the one who gave it to Jeff. Oh, were you the one? Oh, okay. Sorry guys. It was 00:24:35.540 --> 00:24:40.000 Ray DeArmas. I'm just going to take it away from Jeff. Just like I'm taking away his podcast right now. 00:24:40.000 --> 00:24:45.960 But yeah, no, it's it. And I'm glad that you guys are wrestling through all this stuff because it's, 00:24:45.960 --> 00:24:51.140 it's a challenge. It is a challenge. And, and really the challenge kind of moving forward that 00:24:51.140 --> 00:24:55.680 we've been talking to a lot of folks in a lot of churches is what to keep and what to go and how a 00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:58.980 lot of that's going to work out. But it sounds like you guys are wrestling with a lot of the right 00:24:58.980 --> 00:25:04.780 questions. Um, now mind you, I know not every, but every church is excited about these digital 00:25:04.780 --> 00:25:10.000 processes and these digital tools. I've dealt with a lot of pastors who are a little bit antagonistic 00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:15.420 towards it. Um, how are you guys handling, getting people to those next steps? Cause that's what I 00:25:15.420 --> 00:25:18.500 keep telling them. I'm like, part of the reason why you're antagonistic is because you're not thinking 00:25:18.500 --> 00:25:24.460 about people taking their next step beyond the broadcast. And so how have you guys done that? 00:25:24.460 --> 00:25:29.820 Because for her, it would have been great on its own in terms of content, but you guys stepped it up 00:25:29.820 --> 00:25:34.560 another level by creating the community around it. So how are you guys bridging that gap between 00:25:34.560 --> 00:25:39.900 content and community and getting people there? Man, that's a great question. Let me think. 00:25:41.320 --> 00:25:45.960 I feel like there's so, I just feel like there's so much, it's such a, like an interweaving of 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:53.080 different things and a lot of collaboration between teams. Um, I think it's always, so we have like 00:25:53.080 --> 00:25:58.620 even a care connection card, let's say, or a connection card that we do that, you know, like the 00:25:58.620 --> 00:26:02.700 regular connection card that you do on Sunday mornings usually, but we have like a digital version of 00:26:02.700 --> 00:26:08.100 that and beyond that, we have a care version of that. So we, we create these, um, forms, these cards that 00:26:08.100 --> 00:26:13.160 people can fill out. And that just doesn't go into outer space. Like that goes to a person that reads 00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:19.380 through them and then makes contact with them, whether that's email or phone or a zoom call. And so we are 00:26:19.380 --> 00:26:26.280 still trying to, like, we respond to every email. We respond to every phone call. I know that like, 00:26:26.340 --> 00:26:30.640 unfortunately there's some churches that are not that way. Like they, someone sends an email and just 00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:34.420 goes somewhere and then people ignore it. And, but we don't do that. Like we really care. Like we 00:26:34.420 --> 00:26:39.040 really respond to every single email, you know? And so I think that's a huge part of it. And I think 00:26:39.040 --> 00:26:43.420 even when it comes to social media, because I'm really involved with our social media as well, 00:26:43.420 --> 00:26:48.320 I'm very passionate about responding to every comment, every message, every DM that we get, 00:26:48.320 --> 00:26:52.740 because I want them to know that they're, that we are a family, that we are here for you. We're not 00:26:52.740 --> 00:26:58.480 just wanting you to consume our content. We want to help you in your discipleship process or in your, 00:26:58.620 --> 00:27:02.660 in your life. No, that's helpful because a lot of people, especially people who are, 00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:06.260 who are obviously connecting with you guys online there, if they're connecting to you, 00:27:06.260 --> 00:27:10.320 it's because they are longing for that piece of community, right? They're not just connecting 00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:14.380 simply because they dig your podcast or they dig, they dig Derwin or they dig Vicky and the stuff 00:27:14.380 --> 00:27:19.300 that you guys are doing, but it goes a step beyond that. And transformation, mind you, 00:27:19.540 --> 00:27:25.120 I know that transformation tried multi-site and that didn't work out. I know we've talked about that 00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:31.260 in the past, just privately, but in the future, you guys have really exploded online. How do you 00:27:31.260 --> 00:27:37.820 see online kind of taking a greater emphasis as things move forward? Oh man, it's just, it's like, 00:27:37.820 --> 00:27:43.220 it's everything. We're trying to, I think one of our biggest strategies right now is that we're seeing 00:27:43.220 --> 00:27:50.040 ourselves as an online church, huh? Not as like a church that has a broadcast online. Like we are 00:27:50.040 --> 00:27:54.720 an online church right now. And yes, we have a building that we, that we will use someday. 00:27:55.120 --> 00:27:59.560 That's a huge shift from conversations that you and I have even had in the past in regarding TC. 00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:06.420 That's a big shift. How do you guys arrive at where a church, you know, in, in the Carolinas too, 00:28:06.800 --> 00:28:13.220 we're an online church. Like that's a major jump. I think just seeing the impact, like seeing the 00:28:13.220 --> 00:28:21.100 numbers of people who are watching our broadcast online every single Sunday, watching our midweek 00:28:21.100 --> 00:28:28.280 services who are like, even our follows on, on Instagram and Facebook have grown so much. And we 00:28:28.280 --> 00:28:35.760 see where people are watching from. And it's just amazing. Like we just understand now the impact that 00:28:35.760 --> 00:28:42.440 we can have not only in North Carolina, South Carolina, but beyond. And recently, even on our 00:28:42.440 --> 00:28:48.340 Instagram, we shared a story about a woman who lives in Maryland, I believe. And she watches Faithfully. 00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:56.180 She's a transformer. So she does not live in North or South Carolina, yet she's a part of our family. 00:28:56.180 --> 00:28:59.660 And so we wanted to feature that story to show people like you see, like, it doesn't matter where 00:28:59.660 --> 00:29:05.460 you live. You can be part of our TC family. Um, see, I know this is true because my mother-in-law 00:29:05.460 --> 00:29:11.480 is now a self-proclaimed transformer. She's loving it. She's digging it. Yeah. I love, I know we 00:29:11.480 --> 00:29:15.500 talked on the phone the other day. She's like, I'm a transformer in Miami. I'm like, yeah, girl, 00:29:15.500 --> 00:29:21.000 we're going to do, we're going to do a Miami campus, TC Miami. You know, I'm, I like that. 00:29:21.220 --> 00:29:24.300 She'll be the first one to show up for sure. There's no question about it, 00:29:24.300 --> 00:29:28.800 but that's, that, that is the power that you guys have created this great community. I mean, 00:29:28.860 --> 00:29:34.120 granted it did start with, with phenomenal content. There's no question about it. It's great content, 00:29:34.120 --> 00:29:39.040 you know, but then there's the community that's created around the content that really makes it 00:29:39.040 --> 00:29:44.340 more compelling. Yeah, for sure. I think, I think showing people that you, when you show people that 00:29:44.340 --> 00:29:48.900 you care and you show people that you're willing to walk with them and willing, like, you know, 00:29:48.900 --> 00:29:54.440 if someone, if someone messages us about, you know, I'm, I'm struggling with this or that, 00:29:54.500 --> 00:29:59.100 we don't just say, okay, we're praying for you. We say, okay, please, you know, fill out this 00:29:59.100 --> 00:30:02.280 connection card. Someone from our team is going to be in contact with you. And then they are, 00:30:02.360 --> 00:30:07.780 they email them or they call them. And then we set up a zoom care meeting with one of our care 00:30:07.780 --> 00:30:11.860 shepherds. Like we walk them through it. You know, we don't just abandon people. It's like, 00:30:11.920 --> 00:30:15.860 oh, did you watch Sunday? Okay, cool. See you next week. Like we want to see people all throughout the 00:30:15.860 --> 00:30:20.060 week. That's awesome. That's really good. How else are you guys keeping that contact throughout the 00:30:20.060 --> 00:30:25.320 week? Cause that's, that's a challenge for a lot of folks. I mean, I think that always social media 00:30:25.320 --> 00:30:35.640 where we update every day and we encourage people to interact on there. The, the for her group has 00:30:35.640 --> 00:30:40.860 shown us that it doesn't have to be just a for her group. We can have groups about anything and 00:30:40.860 --> 00:30:46.400 everything. And so I think that's probably a move that will make more Facebook groups because there's 00:30:46.400 --> 00:30:52.180 more engagement within groups than on pages. Ooh, talk about that. Talk about that. I agree. 00:30:52.740 --> 00:30:59.080 Yeah. Talk about that. Why do you say that's the case? Okay. Well, this is something that I learned 00:30:59.080 --> 00:31:05.180 from Nona Jones who works at Facebook. She's like their faith, uh, initiative person, partnership 00:31:05.180 --> 00:31:11.600 person. Anyways, she's a genius. And I've listened to a lot of her talks and she always says how Facebook 00:31:11.600 --> 00:31:16.320 pages are more of like a drive-by, like it's like your front door and people just kind of like see what 00:31:16.320 --> 00:31:20.680 this is. Oh, this is transformation church. Oh, okay. They have, okay, cool. See you later. But groups are 00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:29.000 where people get into community and get connected. And so, um, it's just, it's just easier. It's, it's, 00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:35.280 it can be smaller. You can, you can just, you're going to receive more engagement within a group than 00:31:35.280 --> 00:31:40.740 on a page. And so, and you can, I don't know. It's just, is there just something about a group? 00:31:40.820 --> 00:31:46.660 It feels safer. It feels more intimate. It feels closer than a page. A page is more public than a 00:31:46.660 --> 00:31:52.620 group is. Yeah. The thing I've noticed about groups within this is the user's ability to add content to 00:31:52.620 --> 00:32:01.340 it, which is good and bad. Like it depending, right? Yes. We learned that. I mean, I've seen some, some 00:32:01.340 --> 00:32:06.860 weird, horrific content that as an admin, I've had to like, no, we're not doing that. We're not doing 00:32:06.860 --> 00:32:10.960 that here or we're not promoting that or no, you cannot promote your multi-level marketing scheme 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:18.660 on our Facebook group. But, but it's definitely been an opportunity though, for people to drive 00:32:18.660 --> 00:32:24.460 content and even to give feedback in a good way. You know, like a lot of people take feedback as, 00:32:24.600 --> 00:32:26.780 oh, they're going to do, they're going to do the negative thing. They're going to say, well, 00:32:26.780 --> 00:32:30.540 why doesn't our church do this? Why don't you guys do that? I've not seen any of that. What I have 00:32:30.540 --> 00:32:35.460 seen more of is, man, I love this week's message. Hey, how can, how can I pray for some of the 00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:39.720 different people at our church? That's been pretty powerful and transformative to see in a group versus 00:32:39.720 --> 00:32:44.820 just a brand page where it's just us talking at people. Yeah, I think that's good. I think that's a 00:32:44.820 --> 00:32:49.480 really good point because even within our for her page, we see women saying, Hey, I was reading this 00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:53.160 devotional this morning. I was reading the Bible and I, and I saw this and it reminded me of something 00:32:53.160 --> 00:32:59.420 Vicki said, or, you know, and then it's, it's encouraging is what it is. It encourages people 00:32:59.420 --> 00:33:05.600 within their own spiritual habits, within their own spiritual walks. And it's, it's good because it 00:33:05.600 --> 00:33:12.100 feels like you're doing it together. It's good. That's real good. So now, I mean, obviously, 00:33:12.760 --> 00:33:19.480 as you know, you talked about like the good life book and all this stuff is for her done or is for 00:33:19.480 --> 00:33:25.080 her relaunching in the fall or what's next for that? No, I mean, I don't think it's done at all. 00:33:25.180 --> 00:33:30.780 This is something, like I said, that we were planning even before all of this happened. And this is 00:33:30.780 --> 00:33:36.180 something we have a vision and a passion for. And so it's definitely not done and it will keep going. 00:33:36.260 --> 00:33:40.900 Like right now it's going to look differently than how it did while we were doing our Esther study. Now 00:33:40.900 --> 00:33:45.660 it's more of the good life and it's more us as a church, you know, coming alongside pastor Derwin 00:33:45.660 --> 00:33:50.840 as he's releasing this book that we all like love and believe in. And then from the fall, then we'll 00:33:50.840 --> 00:33:55.560 see, you know, where it goes from there. That's really good. And something that I'm hoping to see, 00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:59.600 I'm hoping to see, and mind you, she's being really humble. I'm hoping to see Christelle start 00:33:59.600 --> 00:34:03.880 teaching it for her online. I'm really looking forward to that kind of stuff. I know she's not going to 00:34:03.880 --> 00:34:08.120 tout her own content, but I'm telling you right now, she's a Bible teacher and I think she would do a 00:34:08.120 --> 00:34:14.260 phenomenal job at it. So that's just me. All right. Welcome. Hey, look, I got a long history 00:34:14.260 --> 00:34:20.060 with Christelle and I'm very, very happy to see you leading people here online and to really be 00:34:20.060 --> 00:34:25.080 driving this transformation because what I had seen a lot of in the past, and this isn't a critique, 00:34:25.200 --> 00:34:29.100 it was just an observation, was just some hesitancy because there had always been this ability 00:34:29.100 --> 00:34:34.300 to have this kind of influence online from transformation. And now that I see them embracing 00:34:34.300 --> 00:34:37.680 it, I just love it. Yeah. Phenomenal. And I see a thriving factor in it. 00:34:38.520 --> 00:34:42.160 Yeah. I think I believe that too. And I, and I'm, and I'm so thankful to see it. 00:34:42.620 --> 00:34:48.020 You know, my husband, Alex also works at TC in the communications. He's so gifted at storytelling 00:34:48.020 --> 00:34:53.560 through video and photos and all of that. And so he's also very passionate about this. Like we, 00:34:53.660 --> 00:34:58.580 we have to do things online. We have to like tell these stories that what's happening and put it 00:34:58.580 --> 00:35:04.160 out there. And so having him, having our communications director, who also, who called 00:35:04.160 --> 00:35:10.280 2020 the year of digital before COVID even happened, having our, yeah, having our digital 00:35:10.280 --> 00:35:15.500 strategies, like where God is building this team. Like God knew what was happening even before we knew 00:35:15.500 --> 00:35:19.160 what was happening. And he was already putting people in the right places. And it's just like, 00:35:19.200 --> 00:35:23.460 our eyes were all opened and everyone's, everyone's eyes were open to like, okay, this is happening. 00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:29.680 And we're seeing so many more opportunities come because we have started opening up the, 00:35:29.760 --> 00:35:34.000 the ideas of like, what does it mean to be an online church? What does it mean to go digital? 00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:39.320 And so we just see so many opportunities coming and we know that's God doing his work. 00:35:39.600 --> 00:35:44.360 So anyways, now to land the plane, uh, Christelle, you know, do you have any closing thoughts as to 00:35:44.360 --> 00:35:49.800 how you would encourage churches to move in digital strategy and digital discipleship in this kind of 00:35:49.800 --> 00:35:52.580 direction as to what you guys have done for women? I mean, it's powerful. 00:35:53.100 --> 00:36:00.000 It can feel overwhelming, especially if you're not, um, well-versed in digital and online and all of 00:36:00.000 --> 00:36:06.400 that. It can definitely feel overwhelming, but there are so many people within your church who 00:36:06.400 --> 00:36:12.100 know how to do this. Like there are younger people or maybe even like moms and moms are amazing on 00:36:12.100 --> 00:36:15.660 Facebook. Like you don't even know there's so many mom Facebook groups. They know how to run it 00:36:15.660 --> 00:36:22.460 like better than anyone else. I know there's like younger people who are, who just have like a knack for it. 00:36:22.460 --> 00:36:25.560 You know, there are people within your church, you know, even if you don't know how to do it, 00:36:25.700 --> 00:36:30.480 there's somebody in your church, even if it's one person who knows how to navigate online spaces 00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:35.880 very well. So it's time to tap them on the shoulder and say, please help me like show some 00:36:35.880 --> 00:36:40.500 humility and be like, okay, I don't know what I'm doing. Please help me with this. And they'll do it. 00:36:40.520 --> 00:36:46.360 They'll be so excited and they'll love to help navigate this new arena for you. I think that's like 00:36:46.360 --> 00:36:51.640 step number one, like, and if not, then ask God, you know, pray and ask him to show you who that is 00:36:51.640 --> 00:36:55.140 or to bring that person to your church. Because I promise you, there are so many people out there 00:36:55.140 --> 00:36:59.920 who know what they're doing when it comes to this. That's so good. That's so powerful. And I agree. 00:37:00.160 --> 00:37:04.140 You know, if you're out here listening and you're thinking to yourself, well, this is great, but I 00:37:04.140 --> 00:37:09.000 don't have a dynamic speaker or I don't have the kind of personality that transformation has on either 00:37:09.000 --> 00:37:13.360 men or women's side. How in the world can I get started? The reality is, is your willingness is 00:37:13.360 --> 00:37:18.100 kind of the first place to start. And if you're a regular listener on the church digital, we talk 00:37:18.100 --> 00:37:22.480 about this all the time. It's okay to fail. Like it's okay to mess up in this space in the sense of, 00:37:22.620 --> 00:37:27.760 yeah, I tried something and it didn't work out, but get back up and try again. Because as we're 00:37:27.760 --> 00:37:35.620 seeing here and what's happening at transformation, this wasn't planned. Nobody went into this saying, 00:37:35.620 --> 00:37:39.780 hey, this is going to be a sensation. We're going to get 800 women into a Facebook group and over 250 00:37:39.780 --> 00:37:45.900 women involved in small groups in four weeks. There was no plan that kind of went into this in motion, 00:37:45.900 --> 00:37:50.480 but there was the willingness to say yes to God. And even when the plan on zoom fell apart, 00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:55.080 there was the willingness to get up. Yeah. And that wasn't even, that wasn't even the last fail 00:37:55.080 --> 00:38:00.500 because we had other fails after that. And we had to regroup and, and, and, and like, I think the 00:38:00.500 --> 00:38:04.940 very first week that we had the video teaching, we, we said we were going to do individual watch 00:38:04.940 --> 00:38:08.840 parties in all of the different small groups. That was a fail because so many people were like, 00:38:08.920 --> 00:38:14.860 how do I do this? Where do I go? I don't understand. And so we had to just simplify like one watch party 00:38:14.860 --> 00:38:20.500 in the large group, then go to your small groups, you know? So you, you, you, uh, something Pastor 00:38:20.500 --> 00:38:23.380 says is sudden change, which I guess is a football thing. I don't know. 00:38:24.100 --> 00:38:28.820 What was that? What was that again? Sudden change. Sudden change. Okay. Yeah. Like, 00:38:28.920 --> 00:38:33.540 it's just like something happens. Now you have to rethink your whole strategy. It's a sudden change. 00:38:33.540 --> 00:38:36.480 So just move and just do it, you know? So that's what we had to do. 00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:41.460 That sounds good. And that kind of, I think that exemplifies maybe church ministry in general, 00:38:41.460 --> 00:38:46.840 but definitely church online is sudden change is just part of the norm. Um, and it's, it's tough 00:38:46.840 --> 00:38:50.880 to embrace, but it's definitely something that needs to, needs to be embraced, especially when 00:38:50.880 --> 00:38:55.940 we're in the business of faith and working for God, because every hero I've ever had in the Bible 00:38:55.940 --> 00:39:02.500 has had to deal with sudden change. So. Oh yeah. Yep. Very cool. Well, Christelle, 00:39:02.600 --> 00:39:06.600 thanks so much for taking the time to join us on the church digital podcast. Look forward to having 00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:11.440 you again, because I definitely want to talk about in the future as to after you've reopened and 00:39:11.440 --> 00:39:17.380 what's happening in terms of transformation church, being an online church first. That's that I'm sure 00:39:17.380 --> 00:39:23.320 is going to take on a whole lot of other meanings, uh, come the fall and, and come on into 2021. So 00:39:23.320 --> 00:39:25.520 look forward to hearing from you guys again. That'll be great. 00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:30.400 Thanks Ray. I love you guys. And I love this podcast and everything you guys are doing. So 00:39:30.400 --> 00:39:36.120 thank you. And then make sure if you're listening to go pick up a copy of the good life when it comes 00:39:36.120 --> 00:39:42.960 out, because it's going to be awesome. There it is. Yes. By Derwin Gray, uh, phenomenal pastor has a lot 00:39:42.960 --> 00:39:48.060 of great things to say and definitely, um, is very engaging online and then follow at Christelle ace. 00:39:48.140 --> 00:39:52.620 She's a great follow, uh, make sure I'm plugging with her. All right. That sums it up here. My name 00:39:52.620 --> 00:39:54.800 is Ray. I'm here for the church digital. We'll see you all next time.