WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.660 Well, hey, everybody. Welcome to the Church Digital Podcast. My name is Jeff Reed, and 00:00:04.660 --> 00:00:09.320 it is great to be here with y'all today. Once again, with the Church Digital, we focus a 00:00:09.320 --> 00:00:15.240 lot on church online, talking about what that ministry looks like and how it can be utilized 00:00:15.240 --> 00:00:20.660 in the church today. And I'm joined today by a guest here, and this is a man that I've 00:00:20.660 --> 00:00:26.260 grown to love in a very short amount of time. This is Ben Stapley, currently Weekend Experience 00:00:26.260 --> 00:00:31.080 Director, I believe is the title, at Christ Fellowship, and he's got a long track record 00:00:31.080 --> 00:00:38.300 of online and communication, formerly with Liquid Church, and as I'm sure as well as a number 00:00:38.300 --> 00:00:42.740 of other churches. I just want to say this up front, even before I let you talk, Ben, because 00:00:42.740 --> 00:00:48.520 this is awesome. I respected you before I even met you. And like Ben was, I don't know if 00:00:48.520 --> 00:00:54.980 you follow Ben online at Ben Stapley, but I don't know many people around in the Christian 00:00:54.980 --> 00:00:59.320 industry, and I'm sorry to call it that, but the Christian industry, that utilize technology 00:00:59.320 --> 00:01:04.480 as well as he does to create a platform and to create resources that are out there. And 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:09.160 so like it was one of those things, you know, even like four or five years ago, I was like, 00:01:09.240 --> 00:01:14.020 man, this Ben Stapley guy is awesome. I love this. And I was sharing his resources out with 00:01:14.020 --> 00:01:20.160 pastors and with church staff and people that I was working with. And it's awesome now to see 00:01:20.160 --> 00:01:24.340 him down here at Christ Fellowship at a church that I'm very active with and involved with 00:01:24.340 --> 00:01:30.280 doing his thing and helping the church here. So Ben, that's the best intro I know how to give you. 00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:34.660 I will give you the $20 after this conversation. Thank you. That was wonderful. That was wonderful. 00:01:35.500 --> 00:01:42.620 Awesome. I will gladly take that. Apple Pay is a great option. Cash App works too. So hey, Ben, 00:01:42.660 --> 00:01:47.980 man, just tell us a little bit, like I've totally just sucked up, but what can you do? What do you do 00:01:47.980 --> 00:01:52.720 at Christ Fellowship and what does your day-to-day look like? Yeah. So let me suck up a little bit 00:01:52.720 --> 00:02:01.160 back. First of all, I've been loving the podcast. They're incredible. Learning from this platform that 00:02:01.160 --> 00:02:07.120 you have right here. And I love you spearheading this because I think this is a need and will only 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:14.240 grow in its neediness for the church world as we continue in advance. So I love the fact that you've 00:02:14.240 --> 00:02:18.840 launched this platform and these conversations for people to engage with and to learn with. 00:02:18.980 --> 00:02:24.720 And I also, I also love learning from you because you, I like to call myself cutting edge, but you're 00:02:24.720 --> 00:02:30.460 bleeding edge. And so like, I look to you and see what you've done and the mistakes you maybe have 00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:35.600 made or lessons that you learned and say, I'm going to apply that from Jeffrey. So I think you're a 00:02:35.600 --> 00:02:40.620 vanguard there. And I appreciate that heart of yours. In relationship to what I'm doing here at 00:02:40.620 --> 00:02:44.560 Christ Fellowship, the weekend experience director kind of encompasses a couple different things. 00:02:45.600 --> 00:02:51.840 Basically, we're looking to craft services so compelling every week that people invite someone 00:02:51.840 --> 00:02:57.400 to join them the following week. Oftentimes the bar for most churches is, hey, we just, if people come 00:02:57.400 --> 00:03:03.320 back, we're happy. For me, the bar is a little higher. I want services so engaging that I'm, that our 00:03:03.320 --> 00:03:09.420 guests are inviting new guests to join them every week. That's the bar for me. I have the privilege of 00:03:09.420 --> 00:03:14.200 leading a couple different departments to pull that off. The worship production, creative, online 00:03:14.200 --> 00:03:19.760 communications, kind of a whole collaborative team to how do we maximize this one hour on the 00:03:19.760 --> 00:03:25.720 weekend. But then beyond that, how do we maximize the other 167 during the course of the week and to 00:03:25.720 --> 00:03:32.040 make sure that the message that we hit on a weekend experience continues to get extrapolated over the 00:03:32.040 --> 00:03:36.940 course of the week and we engage people that way as well. So that's the big picture of who I am, 00:03:36.940 --> 00:03:42.740 what I do here at Christ Fellowship. That's awesome. And that's really the challenge of churches a day. 00:03:42.860 --> 00:03:48.920 It's not just to focus on the one hour on Sunday, but to create resources and utilize the communication 00:03:48.920 --> 00:03:54.720 channels, social media, mobile app, website to really drive a discipleship plan, a discipleship 00:03:54.720 --> 00:04:03.240 process to help connect with people. 168 hours a week. I actually bought a domain name, 168.church, 00:04:03.400 --> 00:04:09.620 because the goal was to create a church that does something 168 hours a day. So if that just spurred 00:04:09.620 --> 00:04:15.220 an idea in somebody's head, I'm totally willing to sell it. So feel free to message me. I'll put the 00:04:15.220 --> 00:04:21.680 information in the blog notes. And if you are like, I want to create a church that operates 168 hours a week, 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:29.700 that church can't be yours for the right. I'm your guy. That's awesome. Well, Hey, the topic I want to 00:04:29.700 --> 00:04:36.600 talk about today is, um, is really communicating in context of church online. And we started this 00:04:36.600 --> 00:04:42.400 dialogue just kind of on the side, Ben and I, and the initial topic was, was more towards a teaching 00:04:42.400 --> 00:04:48.740 style, but then that just kind of naturally grew towards, okay, well, what about like on, uh, hosts and, 00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:54.240 uh, and, uh, you know, campus pastor and communicating to the lens and what's that like. And then suddenly 00:04:54.240 --> 00:04:58.820 we found ourselves kind of transitioning into, into chat hosts and that communication. And so like 00:04:58.820 --> 00:05:05.140 what I want to really do today is just do a holistic view where we're talking about all of communication 00:05:05.140 --> 00:05:12.580 in context of what happens in, in a church online service. And so, and like I said, Ben is the man 00:05:12.580 --> 00:05:18.380 on this topic. I cannot think of a better person to be talking to. And so let's dive in. All right, 00:05:18.440 --> 00:05:23.540 Ben, number one, like teachers and preachers, people that are communicating, which in the context 00:05:23.540 --> 00:05:29.680 of our physical services, like this is the majority of time in a physical service. And vis-a-vis it's 00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:35.860 the majority of time that happens in context of, of an online service. Like what options, 00:05:36.080 --> 00:05:41.060 what instructions, what coaching would you give, you know, to a teacher that maybe for the first 00:05:41.060 --> 00:05:47.380 time is really starting to, to expand into online. That's, that's nervous about doing it online. 00:05:47.380 --> 00:05:53.380 Like, like what steps can you give them, uh, to help these, these communicators, uh, do online 00:05:53.380 --> 00:05:59.280 teaching better? Yeah. So I'll try to tackle some low hanging fruit first and get to maybe more 00:05:59.280 --> 00:06:04.320 advanced stuff as we go. So the, the, the one is, um, I would say just, uh, first of all, 00:06:04.380 --> 00:06:10.920 um, communicate, um, to that audience, engage that audience and reference that audience. So oftentimes, 00:06:10.920 --> 00:06:16.180 um, oftentimes the preachers will just preach to the room. We'll just preach to the people they 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:20.660 literally see in front of them, which makes sense because that is the way that they were trained. 00:06:20.780 --> 00:06:26.280 Most preachers, um, especially if they're a Gen X or boomers were trained to preach to a room, 00:06:26.280 --> 00:06:30.960 they weren't concerned with cameras in the back or, or even if they were not necessarily even where 00:06:30.960 --> 00:06:36.080 those cameras went, like who's watching that video experience. And that is obviously, um, blown up 00:06:36.080 --> 00:06:40.320 over the past decade in terms of the different avenues that that experience can now reach. So, 00:06:40.760 --> 00:06:46.660 so first of all, um, you know, mention that campus, um, really basic thing. A lot of multi-site 00:06:46.660 --> 00:06:50.480 churches do is they'll, Hey, you know, I'm preaching from such and such location, but I want to give a 00:06:50.480 --> 00:06:56.120 shout out to, and they'll mention their other campuses or locations. Uh, the other thing is making 00:06:56.120 --> 00:07:00.520 sure if you have an online campus to include them in that shout out where I've seen that before where 00:07:00.520 --> 00:07:04.980 pastors will mention, uh, there are four other campuses, but they'll forget their online campus. 00:07:04.980 --> 00:07:09.000 And then again, if you're doing that right away, and if you, if you view it as an actual campus, 00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:14.740 um, then call them out accordingly and reference them accordingly. Uh, we'll even do that in promotional 00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.900 materials for our price fellowship. Hey, we got a great experience happening this weekend. 00:07:18.280 --> 00:07:23.360 Um, it's at six of our locations or, or, or online. And so even before the weekend comes, 00:07:23.360 --> 00:07:31.560 we're just acknowledging that as a vital and valuable, um, avenue to experience, uh, what's coming up over 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:36.780 the weekend and keeping it on par with physical location. So calling it out is the first and lowest 00:07:36.780 --> 00:07:43.840 hanging fruit for, for communicators, pastors, teachers, preachers. Uh, the next thing I would say 00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:51.440 is, um, as much as they can preach for the screen and not the stage. Uh, this is, this is funny. We, um, 00:07:51.440 --> 00:07:55.300 um, you know, I've seen this before, but you've probably seen this before where, before cameras 00:07:55.300 --> 00:08:00.000 happened and before I mag image magnification, where you would project yourself onto the screens 00:08:00.000 --> 00:08:05.580 behind you. Um, you as a communicator had to be big and bold and, and, and visibly dynamic 00:08:05.580 --> 00:08:12.080 to engage the room. And so you would literally walk around on stage and create all this kinetic energy, 00:08:12.080 --> 00:08:16.520 um, because you didn't have those support systems. Well, guess what? Now we, we do now have those 00:08:16.520 --> 00:08:22.780 support systems. We've had it for a while and we, you don't need to, um, manufacture all that kinetic 00:08:22.780 --> 00:08:28.880 energy anymore because it's already there. So, um, preach for a screen experience and not a stage 00:08:28.880 --> 00:08:34.080 experience, but it's one of the basic ways ways is to, to not walk around as much and, and kind of be a 00:08:34.080 --> 00:08:39.800 little more locked in. Um, because if you do it, it's a silly thing, but, um, it's, it's, uh, my ability 00:08:39.800 --> 00:08:44.460 to follow you from an audience perspective. If I'm in the room from farther back, it's easier for me to 00:08:44.460 --> 00:08:49.880 pan because it's not that dramatic, but if there's a tight shot on me, like a waist up shot and I'm 00:08:49.880 --> 00:08:53.800 walking back and forth, then the audience, the visual experience there is going to create some 00:08:53.800 --> 00:08:59.360 whiplash because it's, it's going back too fast and, and, and back and forth. So just like taking those 00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:06.040 things into consideration. Yeah. The camera officer having fun there, trying to keep up with, with a guy 00:09:06.040 --> 00:09:11.960 walking back and forth, I've done enough live video to know, uh, that's, uh, that's always an 00:09:11.960 --> 00:09:17.640 interesting position to be in. What else you got? I would say, this is funny. I use the, um, I remember 00:09:17.640 --> 00:09:23.220 back in the day when people would design websites, you know, probably like 10, 15 years ago, the, the 00:09:23.220 --> 00:09:29.460 phrase would be, um, it's gotta be, it's gotta be mobile friendly. So the adage back then was you're 00:09:29.460 --> 00:09:34.860 making a website for a desktop experience, but there might be some people, you know, I say like 10, 00:09:34.860 --> 00:09:38.600 you know, 10, five years ago, there might be some people who are going to experience it mobily. 00:09:38.600 --> 00:09:44.740 Well, obviously that has radically changed over the past five, 10 years. Now it's, um, the phrase is 00:09:44.740 --> 00:09:48.800 you're going to make it desktop friendly, but the assumption that your primary audience, the majority 00:09:48.800 --> 00:09:54.100 of your people are going to experience your website, your content on a mobile device. And then the 00:09:54.100 --> 00:10:00.200 secondary audience is the desktop experience. And so that, that same switch has happened there. I 00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:05.020 encourage, um, preachers, communicators to make that same switch, um, in terms of how they view 00:10:05.020 --> 00:10:11.240 their audience that, um, they, they need to make sure that it is stage friendly. So your main audience 00:10:11.240 --> 00:10:16.320 is people through the screen, but then you need to make sure that it's stage friendly. So, or another 00:10:16.320 --> 00:10:22.940 way to say that is, um, your, your primary audience is, is online and your secondary audience is actually 00:10:22.940 --> 00:10:28.320 in the room. Again, this is for some communicators, this is revolutionary and it's even hard for them 00:10:28.320 --> 00:10:32.180 to kind of wrap their mind around it. But if you just look at the numbers, uh, how many people you 00:10:32.180 --> 00:10:36.980 have in the room, how many people you currently have online or could have online, that's your primary 00:10:36.980 --> 00:10:42.940 audience where your numbers are at. So if you make that switch, um, a lot of everything else in terms 00:10:42.940 --> 00:10:48.400 of how you communicate, uh, follows. So follow the numbers, uh, and then communicate to them accordingly. 00:10:49.540 --> 00:10:56.560 Hmm. So like if, if I'm tailoring something specific for an online environment, um, 00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:04.180 or trying to reach the online people first now, like I read YouTube, YouTube, the average video is like 00:11:04.180 --> 00:11:09.860 five minutes long. Facebook, the, I think the average video is like three minutes. Ted talks are like 00:11:09.860 --> 00:11:15.940 what 15 to 18 minutes, some, something like that. And so in an online audience, like the content is 00:11:15.940 --> 00:11:21.480 in a much shorter context. Um, how do, how do we wrestle that tension? You know, the average sermon 00:11:21.480 --> 00:11:26.220 is what 30, 40. Uh, I was, I was actually at a church the other day that's considering doing church 00:11:26.220 --> 00:11:32.140 online and the pastor preached an hour. Like, so what, what, how do we wrestle with that? Okay. I want 00:11:32.140 --> 00:11:38.260 to target an online. I want to reach a younger, but the, the experiences that we're currently 00:11:38.260 --> 00:11:42.640 creating and fostering are much larger. Like what, what does that conversation look like? 00:11:43.300 --> 00:11:48.960 Yeah. The, the, the Ted talk is interesting. The, um, I usually say, Hey, a good, um, Ted talk is 18 00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:54.180 minutes, um, because primarily it's mainly it's, it's meant to engage your head. You know, it's an 00:11:54.180 --> 00:11:59.000 intellectual experience. Um, there isn't much in which is engaging your heart from an emotional 00:11:59.000 --> 00:12:04.100 standpoint or your hands from an action point standpoint, but, but, but messages aren't designed 00:12:04.100 --> 00:12:08.580 just intellectually speaking. They're all three of those facets, the, the head, the heart 00:12:08.580 --> 00:12:12.560 and the hands. And so because of that, I say, Hey, Ted talks are great. 18 minutes. Um, we're 00:12:12.560 --> 00:12:16.620 trying to do more than that. Why don't we double it and go for 36 as an average or, or starting 00:12:16.620 --> 00:12:22.260 there at 36. Uh, but that's the kind of rule that I use in relationship to that. Uh, if you're 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:27.520 talking about a, a, a service experience, a message experience, if you ultimately want people 00:12:27.520 --> 00:12:33.960 to take, to understand it, what you're trying to communicate, to feel it, and then have a clear 00:12:33.960 --> 00:12:40.200 action step and, and take action on that, you need a 30 to 40 minutes to kind of accomplish 00:12:40.200 --> 00:12:44.820 that from, from my vantage point. Now, if you're talking about just general communication, how 00:12:44.820 --> 00:12:50.920 you can cut up that 30 to 40 minute experience and have that land on the range of social platforms, 00:12:50.980 --> 00:12:55.000 there's a lot of different ways to do that, but I would still encourage most communicators 00:12:55.000 --> 00:13:01.660 to still land from there, the 30 to 40. Now there is, there is some helpful things to do to make 00:13:01.660 --> 00:13:06.440 sure that it's evergreen, that it's going to land on the, whatever platform it's going to land and 00:13:06.440 --> 00:13:11.420 it's not going to be time-based. So some, again, some basic stuff, but if you're used to preaching 00:13:11.420 --> 00:13:16.760 just for the room, you need to reluin these things. You cannot, you cannot date things. Um, and 00:13:16.760 --> 00:13:20.720 you cannot, um, you cannot pace them on the day. Hey, good morning, everybody. Well, if people are 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:26.000 going to watch this later on at night online, that doesn't make sense. Um, um, or even calling 00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:31.460 things out, like, um, I'll try to, I'll try to keep things that are seasonally based, um, outside of 00:13:31.460 --> 00:13:37.420 the message experience. Uh, so here's a good example. Um, Mother's Day. That's great. We all know we're 00:13:37.420 --> 00:13:40.700 going to celebrate Mother's Day. It's probably going to be like one of your biggest services over the 00:13:40.700 --> 00:13:44.860 year. It's usually like after Christmas and Easter, it's usually the third biggest service for most 00:13:44.860 --> 00:13:49.140 churches. That's incredible. If you, if you communicate all that in your message, well, 00:13:49.160 --> 00:13:52.720 then you've dated that message and it doesn't have a great shelf life. So how do you do that? Well, 00:13:52.720 --> 00:13:59.900 then you, you, you include all that, that, um, that time-based content and, um, anything else outside 00:13:59.900 --> 00:14:04.520 of your message experience. So during your hosting, during your worship set, during the live stuff that 00:14:04.520 --> 00:14:11.600 might just live, uh, live and locally, keep the time-based stuff in those moments and keep the 00:14:11.600 --> 00:14:16.440 message portion as evergreen as you can. Now I understand that sometimes you're making a cultural 00:14:16.440 --> 00:14:20.160 reference that's, you know, a tragedy just happened. Hey, there's, you know, shooting here 00:14:20.160 --> 00:14:24.820 or whatever it might be. Um, but trying to minimize that as much as possible. So it has a longer shelf 00:14:24.820 --> 00:14:32.220 life. Hmm. I like that. So position content within the context of your live service to kind of keep 00:14:32.220 --> 00:14:36.800 that, that sermon, you know, I don't know if pure is the right word, but something where it's focused 00:14:36.800 --> 00:14:42.720 on the topic, you know, so that you can cut it up and do things with it later or, or utilize the 00:14:42.720 --> 00:14:49.540 sermon archive even to market outside of that. Um, so like, um, you know, guy wearing a baseball 00:14:49.540 --> 00:14:55.340 Jersey or it's Superbowl Sunday and preacher wants to like check out in that, or, you know, 00:14:55.340 --> 00:15:00.740 like, is that how, how does, how does illustrations, things like that, how does that tie into an online 00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:05.160 environment? Yeah. Some of those like big moments, it's hard to kind of get around from everyone. 00:15:05.360 --> 00:15:09.740 Every preacher is going to want to incorporate Superbowl into their message somehow come February. 00:15:09.740 --> 00:15:15.420 So that's hard to get, hard to get around. Um, but again, if you can, if you can, um, 00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:22.700 if you got a great illustration and it doesn't need any of those, uh, references that base it upon 00:15:22.700 --> 00:15:27.500 time, then, then pull them out. Uh, again, it's something as simple as not saying good morning 00:15:27.500 --> 00:15:32.000 to begin your message that oftentimes that's how a lot of preachers do that. Um, and that's like, 00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:35.800 that's even helpful outside of the online experience. Um, you'll see a lot of churches 00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:40.020 they'll do this. They'll have like maybe a Saturday service and they'll use that as their 00:15:40.020 --> 00:15:43.860 backup service. If this is like a multi-site and the stream goes down on Sunday morning 00:15:43.860 --> 00:15:48.220 and that's the backup. Well, they're used to saying, Hey, good evening, everybody. Well, 00:15:48.220 --> 00:15:53.020 when that gets played back Sunday morning, that feels weird. So even outside of the online 00:15:53.020 --> 00:15:59.680 people, when you do that, uh, as much as you can stop making your messages, see time-based, 00:15:59.680 --> 00:16:03.860 it has benefits across all the playback platforms. 00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:11.080 Awesome. You know, and I know one of the things, um, that, uh, that you and I have talked about 00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:17.240 in the past, and this goes back to the liquid days. Um, there was a, there was a review team 00:16:17.240 --> 00:16:22.940 and, or honestly, like, I forget the exact language, but it was the first time that, that I'd ever had 00:16:22.940 --> 00:16:28.760 had this experience of, uh, or hearing about it where like a sermon would happen like as an early 00:16:28.760 --> 00:16:33.580 read and there, there was like feedback from a, from a different demographics or like, could you 00:16:33.580 --> 00:16:39.620 explain some of that, uh, to the audience? So real, like real big picture is, um, Hey, um, like for 00:16:39.620 --> 00:16:45.360 the preachers out there, uh, everyone's going to review your message, um, already. So when you're 00:16:45.360 --> 00:16:48.860 done, everyone drives home, you know, husband and wife, Hey, you know, what'd you think of that? 00:16:48.940 --> 00:16:52.860 You know, I thought that was a train wreck. I thought it was terrible. So every, everybody reviews 00:16:52.860 --> 00:16:58.620 your message already. What I encourage preachers to do is to bake in some type of review process 00:16:58.620 --> 00:17:03.760 before the weekend. So they can get that honest coaching and that honest review, which will then 00:17:03.760 --> 00:17:08.880 minimize the negative reviews on the drive home out of the driveway of the church later on. 00:17:09.420 --> 00:17:12.480 Now there's a lot of pushback for that, you know, pastors, preachers, Hey, you don't understand 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:18.440 like my weeks are, are crazy. You're going to have to do the same amount of prep work, whatever 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:24.800 it is, you know, 10, 12, 15, 20 hours. Um, most people, most preachers and pastors will do meetings 00:17:24.800 --> 00:17:29.180 in the first half of the week and then sermon prep in the back half. If you just flip your week 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:34.900 structure around and do message trip at the beginning and, and meetings on the backend, which takes 00:17:34.900 --> 00:17:39.220 some organizational finagling to get people to do that. Well, then you can have a 00:17:39.220 --> 00:17:46.080 review mid to late week. You can get feedback from a trusted panel of peers. Um, and then 00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.940 you can make the message spear experience so much better, like basic things, right? Like, 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:54.280 Hey, like that cultural reference is a little dated, uh, or that theology is a little wonky. 00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:58.800 Um, or, you know, Hey, that joke was a little sexist to be frank. And like, that's not going 00:17:58.800 --> 00:18:03.600 to play with half of our audience. Um, because it's kind of alienating. You catch all those 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:07.300 small things and you make the message, you turn the message from good to great, uh, because 00:18:07.300 --> 00:18:13.060 you, you apply that. Uh, my quick feedback here is, is it needs to be a, um, it's not a, 00:18:13.060 --> 00:18:17.860 it's not a democracy, you know, it's a benevolent dictatorship. So, so whoever that panel is gives 00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:22.540 their feedback, but ultimately the, the lead pastor, the communicator absorbs that and takes 00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:29.280 it and does not, or does not, and then applies it. Um, so the benefits again of that is for the 00:18:29.280 --> 00:18:34.660 audience within the room because then they get a message that, um, that was polished and 00:18:34.660 --> 00:18:39.380 was great. And because somebody gave feedback on it. Uh, but then again, beyond that for 00:18:39.380 --> 00:18:46.720 our online audience here, they also benefit from the, from an extra, usually an extra, like 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:52.380 95 minutes of work in the course of the week. So 95 minutes, right? So, so the preacher gets 00:18:52.380 --> 00:18:58.640 all this done. Um, they then perform for a panel, right? And it's kind of like, it's, it's 00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.040 like, you think like maybe American idol, but there's no Simon Cowell's like, there's 00:19:02.040 --> 00:19:06.180 no one who's going to grill them. Right. And they, and they, they present their, their 00:19:06.180 --> 00:19:09.620 message, um, and the way in which they do it, right. You always want to practice the way 00:19:09.620 --> 00:19:14.380 you're going to perform. So like do it the way you would do it. And, uh, and then a 45 00:19:14.380 --> 00:19:17.820 minutes of a, Hey, let's go around, uh, and, and review. And hopefully you had a manuscript 00:19:17.820 --> 00:19:21.220 you can kind of go point by point and like, Hey, on page two, like, I love that point. 00:19:21.240 --> 00:19:25.320 I think there's like more meat on those bones, like drill into that or on page three 00:19:25.320 --> 00:19:27.840 here. It's got, you know, you're just kind of redundant. You were repeating 00:19:27.840 --> 00:19:33.100 yourself. You know, it seemed like to me, so an extra 90 minutes in your work week, 00:19:33.100 --> 00:19:38.260 this benefits the physical campuses and the online campus, because then they get a 00:19:38.260 --> 00:19:42.720 much more polished message. And here's the, here's the great thing. This is a great 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:47.840 for them. It's also a leadership pipeline because you can then bring into that 00:19:47.840 --> 00:19:52.080 panel, an aspiring communicator. Uh, maybe it's your student pastor. I don't know who it is, 00:19:52.080 --> 00:19:57.900 but someone who can see how the sausage is made and their learning curve and their leadership 00:19:57.900 --> 00:20:02.160 and their communication, um, their curve skyrockets because they're doing, they're 00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.760 seeing this, they're seeing all this behind the scenes stuff every week. So it's like, 00:20:05.760 --> 00:20:10.240 it not only makes you better as communicator, makes your audience and your guests better, 00:20:10.300 --> 00:20:14.020 but receiving a better message. And then it's a leadership. I can go on and on, but those 00:20:14.020 --> 00:20:18.300 are some of the benefits. And obviously the huge thing is the online people get a polished 00:20:18.300 --> 00:20:22.620 experience because here's frankly, a lot of churches will take their, their first message 00:20:22.620 --> 00:20:27.480 and, and, and, and roll that out as their online experience. I mean, it's a Saturday night or it's 00:20:27.480 --> 00:20:32.740 the first thing Sunday morning. And if you don't do this, then, then it's, it's, then that's your 00:20:32.740 --> 00:20:37.900 practice message, right? If you don't have a review process during the week, then you do your review 00:20:37.900 --> 00:20:43.080 process after the first message. And that's when, and then, then that's a shame because then your online 00:20:43.080 --> 00:20:48.060 community is getting your worst experience and they're getting your message without any review. 00:20:49.060 --> 00:20:53.840 There was, yeah, there was a story of the church. And I've heard this recently where 00:20:53.840 --> 00:21:00.120 it wasn't the lead pastor was, it was like a second level teacher was, was had the stage 00:21:00.120 --> 00:21:06.040 and basically had a sub point that it is a sin when we do not come together on a Sunday. 00:21:06.540 --> 00:21:13.260 And, and, and like that, that's great. Uh, there was a, uh, there was a person who was a regular 00:21:13.260 --> 00:21:18.240 attender in a different city, in a different state of the online campus, uh, an online small group 00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:26.140 leader, as well as a regular, uh, tither. And so in metrics of what an actual person is, uh, this, 00:21:26.300 --> 00:21:30.920 this person in a different state met all the metrics in place for somebody who was actively 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:37.740 involved in the church. Um, and, and, and like, there was a freak out moment of, um, sinning 00:21:37.740 --> 00:21:44.580 because I'm attending church online. Like that was the, the connection point. And while, and, and, 00:21:44.580 --> 00:21:48.960 and while it looked great on paper and there was no, oh yeah, Hey, no, no big deal. Just, just roll 00:21:48.960 --> 00:21:54.140 with it. Um, kind of hearing that in the context and shaping it like really negatively affected 00:21:54.140 --> 00:22:00.400 this online ministry, taking out one of its key, um, leaders who just out of frustration. And so 00:22:00.400 --> 00:22:06.960 setting up those, those review places, having somebody to, to kind of hear and focus in, in 00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:12.320 the online context to be aware of some of that stuff, um, would be awesome. And, and, and, and I do 00:22:12.320 --> 00:22:17.540 know, I've talked, I talked with several churches that that first service is what makes it to online 00:22:17.540 --> 00:22:22.220 and, and, or even, you know, sometimes you get the ball rolling. And even if you catch something 00:22:22.220 --> 00:22:26.420 in between the first and the second service, that the odds of you trying to get that changed 00:22:26.420 --> 00:22:31.100 as, as quickly, it just, it's so difficult. So, you know, getting that stuff done beforehand 00:22:31.100 --> 00:22:35.460 while it's still shapeable, um, man, churches like jump on that. 00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:40.080 This, we, we haven't touched on this in terms of copyright content, right? So you'll have like 00:22:40.080 --> 00:22:43.880 churches like Life.Church where it's like during their incredible at the movie series. It's 00:22:43.880 --> 00:22:48.160 like, this is not available, which is understandable. This is not available, um, online and you'd 00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:52.640 have to go to one of our physical campuses. So like, which is like, I'm not saying that's 00:22:52.640 --> 00:22:56.760 a good thing or a bad thing, but they've understood the cost and they've counted the cost and say, 00:22:56.760 --> 00:23:00.520 we're going to, we understand the pros and cons. We're going to move in this direction. Um, 00:23:00.520 --> 00:23:05.000 because we still think it's a net gain for us. Um, but if you don't have someone from, 00:23:05.000 --> 00:23:08.880 from an online perspective, thinking that through saying, Hey, that's awesome. In your message, 00:23:08.880 --> 00:23:13.820 you threw to the such and such music video and you built it all up. And then afterwards, 00:23:13.820 --> 00:23:19.920 you came out of it and, and you talked, uh, about it and you referenced it, but we, no one online saw 00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:24.380 that because it got flagged. Um, and the whole video was taken down or we knew it was going to get 00:23:24.380 --> 00:23:29.960 flagged. And so we cut it out before we sent it there. Um, you, you know, you can't do that or, 00:23:30.160 --> 00:23:34.620 you know, you can't, you, you probably shouldn't do that. Um, but here's some other options, 00:23:34.620 --> 00:23:38.280 either just like, uh, read the lyrics that, you know, you think the lyrics are really strong, 00:23:38.340 --> 00:23:43.080 like read those, because that won't get flagged and that will, that will translate to our online 00:23:43.820 --> 00:23:47.500 let's get, let's pull the band up and they will perform the song because we have copyright to do 00:23:47.500 --> 00:23:51.500 that. And we're legally covered there and that's not going to get flagged. And so we'll have the 00:23:51.500 --> 00:23:56.640 band perform the song that you want to do. So, um, anyone who has that hat on, if they have a seat 00:23:56.640 --> 00:24:01.840 at the table, they can flag all that stuff. And, uh, you know, something as silly as basic where, 00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:05.180 uh, this was happening at liquid and we flagged it with Tim and he's, Oh, that's helpful. 00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:10.140 Where he was talking about the incredible teams of service, um, that people could jump on 00:24:10.140 --> 00:24:15.900 and participate and serve. And all the teams that he mentioned were all, uh, at physical locations. 00:24:15.960 --> 00:24:19.620 And then, you know, myself who was representing online at the time said, Hey, could you, 00:24:19.900 --> 00:24:25.440 could you mention chat hosts, um, online? Because that's one of the volunteer isms for people on 00:24:25.440 --> 00:24:30.320 that campus. Hey, you know, he, he didn't catch it because it wasn't on his radar. I put it on his 00:24:30.320 --> 00:24:35.180 radar. He incorporated it into his message. And then we saw like a 50% increase of our volunteerism 00:24:35.180 --> 00:24:40.720 over the next quarter on there because he, just that one reference, people realized that they 00:24:40.720 --> 00:24:45.440 could also serve. It's not just a, a come and consume. It's also a come and contribute platform. 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:50.100 And, and someone was speaking that into the lead pastor. So you need, hopefully you need someone 00:24:50.100 --> 00:24:53.620 at that review panel who could speak that in for the online experience as well. 00:24:54.600 --> 00:25:00.120 That is, that is so good. And, and having produced, man, I don't know, thousands of church 00:25:00.120 --> 00:25:05.020 services over the years, uh, the idea of, of having, you know, something 00:25:05.020 --> 00:25:12.020 like that to be able to, to shape around, to be able to just go that extra five, 10% to really 00:25:12.020 --> 00:25:18.200 nail something, uh, to have that, that connection, to have that relational point, to have that impact 00:25:18.200 --> 00:25:23.900 into the audience, um, whether physical or virtual, man, that's, that's awesome. So, Hey, 00:25:23.940 --> 00:25:27.360 let's, let's shift gears off the, off the teachings. We've got some other stuff I wanted 00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:31.560 to cover and let's talk about chat hosts, you know, like there's, um, or I'm sorry, 00:25:31.560 --> 00:25:36.540 not chat hosts, let's do on camera hosts where you we've got, um, you know, it's, it's sometimes 00:25:36.540 --> 00:25:43.860 it's the campus pastor. Uh, sometimes it's not a, uh, a exclusive content for the online. 00:25:43.860 --> 00:25:49.400 It's just the piping in of maybe what's happening within the broadcast center. It's, it's somebody 00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:54.220 else, um, live in the room versus maybe something that's prerecorded, you know? And so let's, 00:25:54.300 --> 00:25:57.520 let's kind of just talk through the pros and cons here. Let's open it up with this, 00:25:57.560 --> 00:26:04.260 like pre-record content dedicated, exclusive for the online audience or utilizing the physical 00:26:04.260 --> 00:26:10.060 campus announcement time period in context of church online. Like, what do you recommend? 00:26:10.160 --> 00:26:15.080 What are those pros and cons? Yeah, I would say I don't have a strong recommendation, but like you're 00:26:15.080 --> 00:26:19.260 saying there's pros and cons to both. So understanding what you're trying to do as an organization during 00:26:19.260 --> 00:26:24.900 a particular season will help you identify what you need to do during that season. So for, uh, 00:26:24.900 --> 00:26:31.340 us at liquid during a season, our online ministry, uh, wasn't well known. And so what we wanted to do 00:26:31.340 --> 00:26:38.300 was we wanted to do our, our, our, um, our on-camera hosting. We wanted to do it in the auditorium of 00:26:38.300 --> 00:26:45.020 our, in the, um, in the lobby space of our broadcast campus, because we knew that if we set up a station 00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:50.340 there and we had lights up and a camera up and two people talking on there, and we had a screen behind 00:26:50.340 --> 00:26:56.440 that showed live what was happening and we had stations of volunteers out there as well that were the actual 00:26:56.440 --> 00:27:02.700 chat hosts, then we created incredible awareness of something that could have been hidden, uh, and, and, and 00:27:02.700 --> 00:27:08.160 tucked away. And so, so no, no, we want to, we want to pull it out physically to broaden the organizational 00:27:08.160 --> 00:27:14.580 knowledge of this incredible campus that we have, our online campus. And this is what we're physically going to 00:27:14.580 --> 00:27:20.000 put it in front of people's faces. And so as people were walking into the service experience, they're 00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:24.840 seeing a, uh, you know, uh, a pre hosting done by people. Hey, what's that all about? Oh, that's our 00:27:24.840 --> 00:27:30.900 online campus. Uh, that's what we want you to do an experience while you're not here. Or if you have a 00:27:30.900 --> 00:27:34.440 friend who wants to check out church before they come to church, tell them to do that because that's, 00:27:34.520 --> 00:27:38.640 that's a safe environment for them to do it. And then, and then that's a great environment for if 00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:42.860 you'll never be able to come to a physical location, that's where you have robust spiritual 00:27:42.860 --> 00:27:49.540 discipleship happening. So for us during a season, we said, let's do that, um, on site in our lobby 00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:53.080 just to bring awareness. So again, it was an organizational value for us during that season 00:27:53.080 --> 00:28:00.340 to bring awareness to what was actually happening on the ministry. Um, you, you, now that being said, 00:28:00.580 --> 00:28:05.580 another way you mentioned is to do the, the pre record, which is like super helpful when you want 00:28:05.580 --> 00:28:10.920 to communicate just to your online community. So you're not, you're not showing, um, things that 00:28:10.920 --> 00:28:16.700 are happening at a particular campus, which kind of conveys the fact that that campus is, is there as 00:28:16.700 --> 00:28:20.740 present, maybe as important. And so the fact that you're, if you're shooting in the lobby of a space, 00:28:20.840 --> 00:28:25.700 you may be conveying the fact that, Hey, thanks for coming to this online thing, but the real deal 00:28:25.700 --> 00:28:29.820 is coming to the physical thing. So you have to be aware of that. So if you pre-record it, you, 00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:33.820 you avoid that, right? You avoid big brother, little brother syndrome. And you just say, Hey, 00:28:33.820 --> 00:28:39.040 we're talking to you online community. The other big pro about pre-recording is you communicate 00:28:39.040 --> 00:28:45.220 just to them. So it's not like generic hosting, like, Hey, at our church this weekend, um, you can 00:28:45.220 --> 00:28:51.100 communicate to your people. So, um, an example of this is, uh, we were at a liquid, we're doing an 00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:57.080 event called night to shine. It was the Tim Tebow foundation, uh, chance to give people special 00:28:57.080 --> 00:29:00.980 needs, incredible prom experience that they might not have experienced during, during the high school 00:29:00.980 --> 00:29:05.880 is one of the most beautiful things. If you've never done it as a church and, you know, my old sales pitch 00:29:05.880 --> 00:29:10.880 for it, it's one of the most redemptive things I've ever done. I say it's like the closest step to 00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.460 heaven I've ever had here on earth. It's just beautiful. Uh, there's, there's my, there's my 00:29:14.460 --> 00:29:20.280 plug. And, and so for us, we were trying to communicate to our online, um, community that, 00:29:20.460 --> 00:29:24.200 you know, how they can get engaged with that. And, and, and for us, it was like, you know, 00:29:24.200 --> 00:29:27.920 it was during that season was prayer support because they weren't able to physically come, 00:29:28.020 --> 00:29:31.460 you know, a lot of our people who weren't in state, Hey, you know, for this, for the, 00:29:31.600 --> 00:29:36.200 we had this incredible event coming up, um, the way in which you can participate during this event 00:29:36.200 --> 00:29:41.400 is through this. So we, we, in other words, we tailor made our content, our announcement content 00:29:41.400 --> 00:29:48.500 and the action steps to our online community. Um, so that's, that's a huge benefit of pre pre-roll 00:29:48.500 --> 00:29:57.240 and pre-recording versus doing it live and onsite. Awesome. Um, so then you're right. It all comes 00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:04.340 down to the purpose, which, which you're trying to, you know, accomplish by that. Um, having one 00:30:04.340 --> 00:30:08.440 person, you know, it's like, there've been times in my life when I was doing, you know, for me, 00:30:08.440 --> 00:30:13.140 it was just the one person kind of, kind of doing it. And honestly, his life was so hectic. Like I could 00:30:13.140 --> 00:30:17.220 never just get the other person in there. Uh, and, and I've seen recently, you know, more and more 00:30:17.220 --> 00:30:22.660 where there's a trend towards having two people kind of in their hosting together versus that. 00:30:22.720 --> 00:30:28.180 And I've seen this online, but I've also seen this more in, in physical churches, uh, like doing, 00:30:28.340 --> 00:30:33.160 doing that as well, having two people on stage, like what's, what's this trend towards having 00:30:33.160 --> 00:30:39.080 kind of the, the co-hosts, uh, and involved in that. Yeah. I think you, you hit a couple of things 00:30:39.080 --> 00:30:44.440 there. It's, it's, I always say two is better than one, uh, from a very practical standpoint, 00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:49.640 if it's you and I on stage, it's hard for me to remember like maybe four points of content, 00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:53.400 but if we're ping ponging back and forth and I only need to remember two, because you're remembering 00:30:53.400 --> 00:30:58.760 other two, well, I do the first one. And as you're communicating the second one, I can mentally roll 00:30:58.760 --> 00:31:04.520 back my mental, uh, index and remember my third point. And so it's just like, from a practical 00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:09.160 standpoint, it's a little easier to do because you're relying on somebody else as well. Uh, but the big 00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:14.040 good thing for me is it's, um, it's a con, uh, when you have two people, it's a conversation. 00:31:14.040 --> 00:31:18.600 When you have one person, it's a monologue. So the fact that we're talking creates, creates a 00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:25.880 conversational tone, which is, um, which is vital for the online community because they need to sense 00:31:25.880 --> 00:31:32.360 that it's an, it's, it is a conversation. Um, whenever we would naturally ask ourselves questions, 00:31:32.360 --> 00:31:37.320 like if we were, you know, um, as hosts, we could then naturally ask our audience as well. 00:31:37.320 --> 00:31:40.920 Say Jeff 4th of July is coming up. What are you doing for this weekend? Uh, 00:31:40.920 --> 00:31:44.520 Hey Ben, we're, we're, we're grabbing some, um, burgers and fireworks. It's going to be awesome. 00:31:44.520 --> 00:31:50.360 Hey, online community, what are you guys doing? So the fact that we would have natural conversation 00:31:50.360 --> 00:31:55.160 and questions and answers between ourselves, then allows us to throw it to the online audience 00:31:55.160 --> 00:32:00.360 as well. Encourage them to jump into the chat and participate. So it kind of creates a conversation 00:32:00.360 --> 00:32:05.560 between your, your talent, but then creates a conversation more importantly with your audiences. 00:32:05.560 --> 00:32:12.920 So that's, um, that's vital to have two people instead of one. Um, I used to, I, um, again, 00:32:12.920 --> 00:32:17.240 it's a leadership pipeline. So you have somebody with you that you're training up and doing this. 00:32:17.240 --> 00:32:23.480 I got to the point where, um, as the online pastor at liquid church, I stepped out of that role and just 00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:29.240 let, um, other people play that role, but I realized I was missing it because I wanted to raise up 00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:36.760 leadership, which is, which is a great value. But I realized, um, I, I lost the, the, the online 00:32:36.760 --> 00:32:43.000 campus lost the face of the campus. In other words, I was the face of the campus. And if I was never on 00:32:43.000 --> 00:32:47.480 camera, then people didn't know who was running the show. And it's not that it's about me or you or 00:32:47.480 --> 00:32:53.080 anybody else, but guests want to know that there's a point guy or gal, there's a point person. And that 00:32:53.080 --> 00:32:57.800 if, if they need to get, get questions and they need to go to the top, they know who that person is. 00:32:57.800 --> 00:33:04.360 And so I would encourage you to, um, whoever's that, that visible point person to have them play 00:33:04.360 --> 00:33:08.680 that role and not be, not be in the passenger seat, not being the back seat and not be seen 00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:12.200 by the community because the community wants to, ultimately the community wants, they want to know 00:33:12.200 --> 00:33:16.440 who their pastor is. Um, and it's great that you have associate pastors and there's layers, 00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:21.800 but they, they will be thinking in a hierarchical mindset and saying, okay, but who's on the top 00:33:21.800 --> 00:33:27.240 here. And so you just need to visually demonstrate that as well. Yeah. And there's a lot of impact, 00:33:27.240 --> 00:33:34.280 by the way, um, by hat, by that online pastor. Like I can remember times where I'd be walking into 00:33:34.280 --> 00:33:39.640 like a Home Depot and the guy, the greeter at the door is like, I know you from somewhere. And I'm like, 00:33:39.640 --> 00:33:44.360 okay, like I never go to Home Depot. And he's like, no, no, no. You're the guy from the web, 00:33:44.360 --> 00:33:50.920 literally you're the guy from the website. I'm like, oh, church online. Yes. Yes. I'm with, uh, 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:55.720 with, uh, the online campus pastor there. Or, and it was funny, just another brief story. I'm, 00:33:55.720 --> 00:34:01.800 I'm literally, I'm having coffee, uh, working at a Starbucks and I've got an executive pastor of, 00:34:01.800 --> 00:34:06.120 of the church I was at at Christ fellowship. And I've got a campus pastor sitting next to me. Like, 00:34:06.120 --> 00:34:11.560 I'm, I'm just working, doing my own thing. And I got these two guys, a campus pastor and another 00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:15.800 other one next to me, then they're having their own conversation. I'm just drinking coffee and working. 00:34:16.440 --> 00:34:20.840 And somebody walks in the room. They don't recognize the campus pastor. They don't recognize 00:34:20.840 --> 00:34:26.520 the executive pastor. They recognize me and come up and start to have a conversation. And it's, and it's 00:34:26.520 --> 00:34:31.800 like, Hey, have you met these people over here? Cause like they're more important to the organization, 00:34:31.800 --> 00:34:38.680 but it quickly becomes that there's influence, uh, within the, the online campus because you are 00:34:38.680 --> 00:34:43.320 reaching, you know, the, the front door where people are interested in coming into your church, 00:34:43.320 --> 00:34:48.760 the church online is reaching them a side door, people who are, you know, sick or traveling or for 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.560 whatever reason they're, they're not coming in. Uh, you are reaching those types of people as a, 00:34:53.560 --> 00:35:01.240 as a campus pastor or online host. And so like the ability to, to shepherd and to be kind of 00:35:01.240 --> 00:35:07.400 responsible or the face of to route those people through like that, that's a high value. Um, 00:35:08.120 --> 00:35:14.280 so like, what's the, I just want to know this. And, uh, we like, this is just me. What's the worst 00:35:14.280 --> 00:35:20.440 experience you've ever had being a host for that? I'm going to put you on this because you've been 00:35:20.440 --> 00:35:24.920 doing this probably longer than I have. And I bet you got a story. And so I want the one story. 00:35:24.920 --> 00:35:29.160 Let's go ahead and do it. I'll give like something like really practical. Um, and then let's see if I 00:35:29.160 --> 00:35:33.800 can find something funny, but like for me, it, it, um, it took away, compromised my ability to be a 00:35:33.800 --> 00:35:37.000 secret shopper. So what you're talking about on there right now is that you become, 00:35:37.000 --> 00:35:42.120 you became a face, um, and, and then a brand and the, and you represent the organization and 00:35:42.120 --> 00:35:46.520 people are aware of you, um, because of that. Well, I, I also like to go around to our campuses, 00:35:46.520 --> 00:35:51.080 the, you know, liquid, you know, we had six locations. Uh, we have six locations down here 00:35:51.080 --> 00:35:56.760 at Christ fellowships as well. And so I love, um, to go around and just to play the role of a guest 00:35:56.760 --> 00:36:02.040 and, and, and try to fly under the radar as much as possible. And just, you know, walk up and I was 00:36:02.040 --> 00:36:05.400 doing this like a couple of weeks ago, you know, walk up to the sound tech, like, Hey, look, 00:36:05.400 --> 00:36:09.080 it's like, uh, it's like, it's like loud in here. Like, I like that. It kind of feels like awesome. 00:36:09.080 --> 00:36:13.960 Like, you know, what, like, what DB levels do you run it at? And the guy didn't know me from Adam. 00:36:13.960 --> 00:36:16.920 And he just thought I was a regular person. He's like, you know, he's like, I don't know. 00:36:16.920 --> 00:36:20.760 I was like, Oh, okay. That's, you know, like mentally this, but in the back, my, Oh, okay. 00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:26.600 Good to know. Um, and it allows you to follow up and get like very honest and unvarnished, um, 00:36:26.600 --> 00:36:32.040 responses from people when you, when you are not the on-camera talent, when you are, 00:36:32.040 --> 00:36:36.520 you walk on and you're known and you, you know, people can kind of start cleaning up their actor 00:36:37.640 --> 00:36:44.520 or whatever. Right. Um, and, uh, and you, you, you lose, um, some of that. Um, yeah. Now, 00:36:44.520 --> 00:36:49.880 like my, my, my, my funny story in terms of being on camera talent is, um, the fact that I'll always 00:36:49.880 --> 00:36:56.280 make, um, shorter guests, uh, stand on some type of riser so that I'm relatively on the same level. 00:36:56.280 --> 00:37:00.040 So I would have, you know, I'm a six foot dude, sometimes I'd have like five foot, um, 00:37:00.040 --> 00:37:05.320 gals, um, uh, on camera talent with me and I'd get them, you know, a riser to stand up. So we were 00:37:05.320 --> 00:37:10.840 not completely eye level, but so it didn't look weird on camera. So there's a lot of behind the 00:37:10.840 --> 00:37:15.640 scenes photos of, of talent of mine standing on those risers. And that, that, that always gets, 00:37:15.640 --> 00:37:19.800 gets a kick of me. Um, and so I always look for that when I watch people co-hosting and try to 00:37:19.800 --> 00:37:23.960 figure out, you know, have they elevated one of these people or are they clearly, you know, 00:37:23.960 --> 00:37:28.280 the guy clearly heads and shoulders taller than the gal and they, and they didn't look do that. 00:37:28.280 --> 00:37:33.320 And maybe it looks a little wonky. So that's a kind of fun behind the scenes mentioned in, uh, 00:37:33.320 --> 00:37:38.120 in film world, those are called apple boxes. And so you're standing on apple boxes. There you go. 00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:45.240 I've done that drill. No, no, that well, you'll see the NBA games, right. And so like the reporters 00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:48.600 having to like stretch their arm way up to get the interview with Shaq. Like, you know, 00:37:48.600 --> 00:37:53.880 they're a little bit closer to them. Yeah. That might actually be a small ladder in that context. 00:37:53.960 --> 00:37:59.880 But, uh, yes, that, that being said, that's awesome. Um, man, well, I tell you one thing, 00:37:59.880 --> 00:38:04.440 the last area that I wanted to hit on was, was the chat host. And this was a, this was like a, 00:38:04.440 --> 00:38:09.080 a side conversation that it's suddenly clicked from a, yeah, let's, let's really focus on that. And 00:38:09.080 --> 00:38:15.080 actually to set it up, I was listening to a Kerry Newhoff podcast, uh, recently, and it had, um, 00:38:15.880 --> 00:38:21.800 Oh man, he did like two back to back that were focusing on the, the, um, uh, the church cross 00:38:21.800 --> 00:38:25.880 point up, up in Nashville where they had like the creative director and someone, but then they also 00:38:25.880 --> 00:38:30.920 had the, the lead pastor and someone in that podcast said this, I'll have to find it in the show notes 00:38:30.920 --> 00:38:37.080 and come back. But they were quoted as saying, some of the best pastors in our church are chat hosts. 00:38:37.640 --> 00:38:43.080 And, and, and to me, it really resonated the, the importance of kind of like these people are on the 00:38:43.080 --> 00:38:49.240 front line and there were stages truthfully of my online ministry where I was like afraid of what a 00:38:49.240 --> 00:38:54.520 chat host would say because like they're representing the church, they're representing it externally, 00:38:54.520 --> 00:38:58.120 probably more so than what's happening in the physical building. And so, you know, 00:38:58.120 --> 00:39:03.240 a chat host and an online service says the wrong thing in the wrong context. And all of a sudden it's 00:39:03.240 --> 00:39:08.920 like, you know, press up all in your face and things are going crazy because the church just 00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:14.040 said something and it really was, you know, just a volunteer. Um, so like, what are some ways, 00:39:14.040 --> 00:39:19.880 cause they have power though to the point that they can be the best, best pastors. And, and so like, 00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:26.280 what is it, what is, what does that look like? How can we utilize these volunteers, uh, in, in such a way 00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:31.080 that we can trust what they're saying and then get them in an environment where they can really, 00:39:31.080 --> 00:39:37.320 you know, pastorally lead and shepherd people? Yeah, the, I think you just, the one thing you said 00:39:37.320 --> 00:39:42.280 there, I think is just foundational. So I'll echo it is that they are representing the organization. 00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:48.360 So you may, um, you may be on Facebook and you might give them, um, you might have them just log 00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:53.240 in as themselves. Like, Hey, you know, hi everybody. I'm Ben on the chat host today, uh, and Facebook 00:39:53.240 --> 00:39:58.360 live and they're, they are logged, even though they're logging in by themselves or as themselves, 00:39:58.360 --> 00:40:02.280 they're still representing the organization. Once they said I'm, I'm the chat host and identify 00:40:02.280 --> 00:40:05.560 themselves that way. And then clearly as the conversation goes and they're leading it and 00:40:05.560 --> 00:40:10.120 responding to it, they are representing the church. And so them feeling that weight, like, 00:40:10.120 --> 00:40:14.920 you know, there, there isn't any other ambassador other than you today representing the church, 00:40:14.920 --> 00:40:22.840 you know, do us proud, do not do us proud, uh, represent Jesus. Well, uh, is, is the big thing I would say to them. 00:40:22.840 --> 00:40:28.120 Now you could, you could also have them log in as your, um, as your church, again, in this face, 00:40:28.120 --> 00:40:32.200 Facebook platform, I would encourage them not to do that because people don't want to be interacted 00:40:32.200 --> 00:40:37.000 by an entity in our organization. They want to be, you know, uh, they want to engage with a person. 00:40:37.000 --> 00:40:42.280 And so, so I would still have people log in as people on shop. The same thing applies on that 00:40:42.280 --> 00:40:46.920 platform as well. Um, or I think any other additional platforms I'm not thinking about right now that, 00:40:46.920 --> 00:40:51.640 um, have the person log in as themselves, but realize they're representing the church. And that 00:40:51.640 --> 00:40:56.920 goes, that goes 90% of the way right there. Um, the other thing that I'd say, the same thing applies 00:40:56.920 --> 00:41:02.760 for on camera hosts is that it does for chat hosts that, um, two is better than one. I remember I was 00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:08.120 part of a church that did, um, open air evangelism. It was in Chicago and, you know, they had the, 00:41:08.120 --> 00:41:14.040 the, the flip chart there and the whole, you know, here's this, where you are in this big pit. 00:41:14.040 --> 00:41:17.240 And there's like, this is where God is. And, but if you use the cross, this is, you know, 00:41:17.240 --> 00:41:20.840 the visual illustration that I'm sure a lot of us are aware of. And, uh, and so they had different, 00:41:20.840 --> 00:41:23.880 like, whereas they're talking about it and rolling out, like, Hey, you're going to be the person that 00:41:23.880 --> 00:41:27.560 illustrates it. And you're like, you're going to be a person standing and watching it. I was like, 00:41:27.560 --> 00:41:30.680 wait, why am I going to be the person standing and watching it? Like that doesn't, that doesn't 00:41:30.680 --> 00:41:35.560 make any sense. And they said, no, it does. They said, um, it takes a crowd to gather a crowd. 00:41:35.560 --> 00:41:41.320 And like, tell me more. They said, if we're doing this out on the corner and, and we start, 00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:45.560 then people are just going to walk by because no one wants to be the first person to stop and watch 00:41:45.560 --> 00:41:48.360 because that's pretty vulnerable. No one wants to be the first to do anything, 00:41:48.360 --> 00:41:51.720 unless you're like Jeffrey and who's a complete innovator. Uh, you don't want to be the first 00:41:51.720 --> 00:41:57.640 person to do it. So, but if we have, so if you stand there and watch and participate, um, 00:41:57.640 --> 00:42:01.320 then someone will come behind you because they feel safety, you know, and then someone will come 00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:06.600 behind that and come behind that. And then we'll, we will gather a crowd. Um, same thing applies for the 00:42:06.600 --> 00:42:11.800 chat host. If the chat host is there and Hey, how's everybody doing? How was your weekend? 00:42:12.520 --> 00:42:17.400 What are you taking away from this message? What do you think? And, and there's nobody responding to 00:42:17.400 --> 00:42:22.200 them. It's hard for that first person to respond, but if you have two chat hosts, um, they can go 00:42:22.200 --> 00:42:27.640 back and forth. You and I, um, jump in and everybody, um, everybody I'm Ben Stapley. I'm one of your chat 00:42:27.640 --> 00:42:32.600 hosts. It's great to be here. Um, Hey, uh, can you give me a highlight from the message that you put into 00:42:32.600 --> 00:42:37.560 action last week? And if you were to jump in and respond to that, then we create a dialogue that's 00:42:37.560 --> 00:42:41.800 easier for someone to jump in. So same thing, get two people, not just one for chat hosts. Um, 00:42:42.760 --> 00:42:48.920 again, really simple is, uh, very, very practical. If someone's sick, then you at least have somebody 00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:53.320 to follow up, follow up on. I can't tell you how many times when I had one chat host and they were 00:42:53.320 --> 00:42:56.840 sick and they forgot to get a replacement. And then you have the experience with no one leading the 00:42:56.840 --> 00:43:01.720 chat host. So, you know, complete train wreck. So, um, you cover your back there as well in terms 00:43:01.720 --> 00:43:05.400 of sickness or call outs for volunteerism, but starting with two is key. 00:43:06.920 --> 00:43:13.720 That's, that's awesome. How do you like, how do you prep volunteers, communicate to volunteers? 00:43:14.200 --> 00:43:21.160 Like how much information do you tell them about the service or are they blind and blind? 00:43:21.160 --> 00:43:27.000 Like what, what is the experience of kind of leading that group to help them understand the service? 00:43:27.000 --> 00:43:31.320 That's a great question. So first of all, in terms of resourcing them, there's a general FAQ page 00:43:31.320 --> 00:43:37.320 that I have on the available for them, the questions that we know get asked every week or answers that 00:43:37.320 --> 00:43:41.640 we want to provide in action steps that we want to provide every week as well. So there was the, 00:43:41.640 --> 00:43:45.480 Hey, this is a general FAQ. When people ask, Hey, like, where, where are your locations? 00:43:45.480 --> 00:43:50.760 You know, you have the, you have the tab ready to go to send them to that, uh, people want to serve. 00:43:50.760 --> 00:43:56.760 You can send them the URL for that right away. Um, we know that when the giving talk is given, 00:43:56.760 --> 00:44:00.600 we want you to encourage people to call them to giving as well. And this is the language that 00:44:00.600 --> 00:44:04.680 we've crafted around this. And there's the URL, the action step, and encourage them to take the 00:44:04.680 --> 00:44:11.480 step of faith and obedience. So there was the FAQs that I had available. Um, there was the, um, 00:44:11.480 --> 00:44:15.560 boilerplate, like these are the five things over the course of the chat that need to be communicated 00:44:15.560 --> 00:44:21.960 sometime during it. So these are core values that you need to hit these. Um, and then, so that was 00:44:21.960 --> 00:44:27.880 a great starting point. And then, uh, uh, in addition to that week, uh, that, uh, foundational 00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:31.960 document, there was weekly communication that I gave to the chat hosts in terms of letting them know 00:44:31.960 --> 00:44:36.760 what was coming up and in particular to that weekend or that message. Um, so everybody, um, 00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:43.480 there's a particular call out, um, you know, during this message, uh, by Rick. Uh, and so like, 00:44:43.480 --> 00:44:48.520 you know, here's the action step or, uh, one time that happened for us was, Hey, we knew that this 00:44:48.520 --> 00:44:53.880 service, it was, uh, it was on relationships and it was on like, um, it was a sexual dynamic to the 00:44:53.880 --> 00:44:58.760 message. We know that this is going to, it's not going to be, it's going to be PG 13 and up the 00:44:58.760 --> 00:45:05.480 content. And so in our services, we mentioned that during the hosting moment, but that wasn't shown 00:45:05.480 --> 00:45:10.120 online. So we had to tell our chat hosts to communicate that. So if you're watching this with 00:45:10.120 --> 00:45:14.120 your kids right now, you might want to ask them to step out of the room or just let them know, 00:45:14.120 --> 00:45:18.120 this is going to be some more mature content and you'll, so we had to flag that in advance to let 00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:23.560 them know. Um, this is silly, but it's super helpful that every four years come November, 00:45:23.560 --> 00:45:27.720 I have to give a lot of clear instruction to the chat hosts so that when the political 00:45:27.720 --> 00:45:34.120 conversation comes up and who's God's man or who's God's gal for president, redirect the conversation 00:45:34.120 --> 00:45:39.720 because we are not going there. And so even like something silly as that, um, where, um, 00:45:40.120 --> 00:45:45.240 uh, you know, how to, how to, how to gear them around that. Um, you know, this recently there, 00:45:45.240 --> 00:45:50.440 um, a while ago, there was a shooting, I believe in a, in a mosque, right. Um, I think Australia, 00:45:50.440 --> 00:45:55.320 am I getting my country, right? Uh, yeah. Uh, news, news. Thank you. A couple, you know, 00:45:55.320 --> 00:46:00.360 a couple of months ago. And, um, and like in relationship to that, it was, you know, I saw, 00:46:00.360 --> 00:46:03.880 there was a lot of conversation happening online. Like, Hey, Hey, it's kind of silly. Hey, do, 00:46:03.880 --> 00:46:06.840 do we pray for these people? Like, of course we pray for these people. They are, 00:46:06.840 --> 00:46:11.880 you know, these are people, um, whose lives were lost. Like, do you know, do we, do we pray over 00:46:11.880 --> 00:46:16.520 the situation as followers of Christ? Yes, we do because we're all God's creation. Uh, 00:46:16.520 --> 00:46:22.440 and he wants all to come into a relationship with him. So like, so even we saw that conversation 00:46:22.440 --> 00:46:28.040 happening, um, um, on social media, like leading up to the weekend and we knew, you know what, 00:46:28.040 --> 00:46:32.600 we should probably give some instruction to our people to how to handle this well and give us some 00:46:32.600 --> 00:46:38.360 particular language or the conversation can quickly unravel if we don't give some leadership here, 00:46:38.360 --> 00:46:43.560 because we know this is going to be contentious. So flagging those contentious topics early allows 00:46:43.560 --> 00:46:47.320 you to keep the conversation civil online, which is sometimes hard to do. 00:46:48.520 --> 00:46:53.240 What type of trainings, um, have, have you done in the past to get into like, 00:46:54.040 --> 00:46:58.680 and obviously you want to flag the scary conversations, like, uh, to the point, the man or the woman, 00:46:58.680 --> 00:47:03.560 you know, either way on the presidency side, but you know, um, I'm depressed. Actually, I was, 00:47:03.560 --> 00:47:09.080 was reading a article recently about how, uh, teenagers are more lonely than they've ever been, 00:47:09.080 --> 00:47:14.360 even though they're engaging more in the technology piece. And so like, I'm depressed, I'm suicidal, 00:47:14.360 --> 00:47:20.120 those things. And that that's rare in, in an online experience, but you still want to, want to prepare 00:47:20.120 --> 00:47:24.840 the people for it. So like, what does that look like for you in context of to have the, 00:47:25.560 --> 00:47:29.160 to handle some of those, those spiritual or psychological issues? 00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:33.560 Uh, you talking about stuff that is like baked within the message that is 00:47:33.560 --> 00:47:35.880 tackling or just stuff kind of from out of left field, 00:47:36.760 --> 00:47:43.080 just out of left field coming in or, or the, or the crazy guy come, um, don't want to compare 00:47:43.080 --> 00:47:49.080 depression and craziness, please. But the, the, the, the, the person that comes in to cause trouble 00:47:49.080 --> 00:47:57.080 and where they're the chat host is trying to deal with either a very sensitive topic or a, um, very 00:47:57.080 --> 00:47:58.920 aggressive type of personality. 00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:04.920 Yeah. So the, that's great. So we give, we give a lot of responsibility and therefore permission to 00:48:04.920 --> 00:48:09.720 our chat hosts. And, and I would, I would say this as well, like you have to vet these people out well, 00:48:09.720 --> 00:48:14.360 because they're, again, they're representing the whole church. Um, and, uh, it's like one of those 00:48:14.360 --> 00:48:21.400 things there in terms of, if someone is, uh, is, uh, is spewing toxic in terms of, um, hate speech, 00:48:21.400 --> 00:48:28.040 um, sexism, uh, bigotry, like you kind of go down, like what that could entitle. Um, you know, 00:48:28.040 --> 00:48:33.240 not only do you have the right, but you have the mandate to block them from the, um, from that exchange 00:48:33.240 --> 00:48:38.120 as quickly as possible, because we're not going to let the conversation rabbit trail. And if someone's 00:48:38.120 --> 00:48:42.440 coming in with that type of hostility and hatred, then we're going to cut it off right away because 00:48:42.440 --> 00:48:45.800 they're not looking to contribute to this conversation. They're looking to derail it 00:48:45.800 --> 00:48:51.000 and your responsibility is to keep the conversation moving along. And so to do that, block them. You 00:48:51.000 --> 00:48:55.320 know, I always say lovingly, Hey, invite them to the block party as quickly as possible. Uh, 00:48:55.320 --> 00:48:58.440 that type of person, because we're not going to let the conversation get there. 00:48:58.440 --> 00:49:02.920 Now that's the, the few and far between like most people don't come that way. Most people are, 00:49:02.920 --> 00:49:07.480 um, or maybe have a bone to pick or they have a soapbox to get onto. And so it takes more 00:49:07.480 --> 00:49:11.880 massaging the conversation and redirecting a lot of conversations kind of redirected back to the 00:49:11.880 --> 00:49:17.240 message. So, Hey, that's an interesting point. I love your opinion on the Seahawks or that football, 00:49:17.240 --> 00:49:21.320 whatever it is, but Hey, like, you know what, what are your thoughts on the message or that, 00:49:21.320 --> 00:49:27.960 that last point he made. And so block if you need to, but more importantly, probably redirect will be 00:49:27.960 --> 00:49:31.640 the main way to handle somebody who's taking the conversation a little sideways. 00:49:32.440 --> 00:49:36.520 Um, is, is the, is the way I'd handle it. And then the last thing there too, is, 00:49:36.520 --> 00:49:42.040 is don't feel they need to be the answer man or the answer woman. So like, just because we've been 00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:46.360 trusted you with this doesn't, doesn't mean we expect you to have all the answers. 00:49:47.000 --> 00:49:52.280 Uh, and when you don't, uh, but, but when you don't always, uh, redirect. So don't just say, 00:49:52.280 --> 00:49:56.680 I don't know, say, I don't know. Um, but that's, uh, that's an incredible question. Uh, 00:49:56.680 --> 00:50:02.360 why don't you email the online campus pastor, uh, Ben Stapley at, and he would love to give you 00:50:02.360 --> 00:50:06.200 additional information on that. Or, you know what, you know what I've, uh, I've screen captured that 00:50:06.200 --> 00:50:11.560 question. Uh, and, and, and you, you provide your email and he will follow, he or she will follow 00:50:11.560 --> 00:50:16.120 up with you. So it's, there's layers, right? So it's the people you have to block, uh, the people 00:50:16.120 --> 00:50:20.840 you have to redirect, um, in the conversation, and then the people you have to pass on to saying, 00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:24.920 hey, that's just kind of outside of my pay grade or, you know, I'm not entirely sure, um, 00:50:24.920 --> 00:50:29.720 what our stance is on female leadership within the church. Um, but I know someone who'd love to 00:50:29.720 --> 00:50:34.520 dialogue with you. Here that person is reach out to them. Um, so those, those are the ways I'd handle 00:50:34.520 --> 00:50:40.440 that. And the bonus of having two people involved in the chat host, and that was, that was so eloquently 00:50:40.440 --> 00:50:47.160 said earlier, but the idea that now you've got, um, a person that can handle this, the sensitive or the 00:50:47.160 --> 00:50:55.960 isolated issues separately. And so route that have a person peel off and just either direct message or 00:50:55.960 --> 00:51:01.960 on chop, you can have a one-on-one conversation and the other person can still focus on handling 00:51:01.960 --> 00:51:07.560 and directing the rest of the service without, you know, waiting for that, without dealing with the, 00:51:07.560 --> 00:51:13.880 the messy slash sensitive, uh, situation. And so like, that's, that's an exact reason why you always 00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:20.200 want to have two in there, um, making that work. So that's, that's awesome. Well, man, 00:51:20.200 --> 00:51:24.760 Hey, this has been a great chat and we could sit on here and just keep going, but I want to be 00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:31.640 sensitive to time of your side and on others. So, uh, man, any, any closing thoughts in any, 00:51:31.640 --> 00:51:36.520 you know, just any passing lob you want to like throw at me? What, what do you got? 00:51:36.520 --> 00:51:41.880 Yeah. We, we, you know, we talked all about the, like the, the, the house, right? Like I was just 00:51:41.880 --> 00:51:45.320 always come back to the wise. And so for me, it's that this is like, this is an incredible 00:51:45.320 --> 00:51:49.960 opportunity, incredible platform. Uh, the church is leveraging it. We'll continue to leverage it 00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:55.640 to draw people closer to Jesus. And so as long, you know, even I forgot to frame the conversation 00:51:55.640 --> 00:52:01.800 that way, but you know, sometimes we can get lost on the, within the technology itself. Um, 00:52:01.800 --> 00:52:05.560 or we can get lost in the comparison game. This church is doing that or that church is doing that. 00:52:05.560 --> 00:52:11.000 Why aren't we doing that? Um, um, or even for myself, sometimes like the, the, the volunteerism, 00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:17.160 right? Oh, this, you know, this chat host isn't as polished as I'd like them to be. Um, for me, 00:52:17.160 --> 00:52:23.000 coming back to the, Hey, um, keeping that in the forefront of our mind that this is just another 00:52:23.000 --> 00:52:29.080 platform, another venue, another environment to ultimately introduce people to Jesus and, and 00:52:29.080 --> 00:52:35.560 allow him to woo them closer to him. Uh, for me, keeping that wine in front of my eyes helps handle 00:52:35.560 --> 00:52:41.480 all those tensions that I just mentioned that I, you know, that we all wrestle through, um, uh, 00:52:41.480 --> 00:52:47.320 on a daily basis. So keeping that out there is, uh, super helpful to keep moving us down the road. 00:52:48.040 --> 00:52:53.800 Yeah. We've, uh, why is, has got to be the first and foremost thing. And we've, uh, we've talked 00:52:53.800 --> 00:52:59.240 about it in an earlier podcast and, and there's, um, you know, there's plenty of resources. And 00:52:59.240 --> 00:53:03.240 actually, if you go on the blog at the church digital, you find that I asked that, that question 00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:09.560 a lot where what, what's the why of it? You know, I was on, I was on Facebook recently in a group for 00:53:09.560 --> 00:53:17.240 church online and, um, and somebody was like, I've got $5,000. What should I do? And, um, you know, 00:53:17.240 --> 00:53:23.000 the, the, the first question I kind of threw back at him was what is the purpose of what you're doing, 00:53:23.000 --> 00:53:28.200 what's working and what's not working. Don't just blow your, this newfound budget on, on the newest 00:53:28.200 --> 00:53:34.600 toy. Um, if it's not going to solve a problem. So let's, let's talk through your problem, then find 00:53:34.600 --> 00:53:39.000 where the money should go. And, and everybody was kind of laughing at that, but, and it's, it's the, 00:53:39.000 --> 00:53:44.040 really the purpose behind it where we don't understand as an organization, a lot of churches don't 00:53:44.040 --> 00:53:49.720 understand the why of church online, or they don't have it yet. They haven't, or it's the lead pastor 00:53:49.720 --> 00:53:54.760 wants to do one thing. The executive pastor wants to do another. And the, the, the campus pastor or 00:53:54.760 --> 00:53:59.480 the guy who's in charge of online is in a completely separate direction. And so there's not alignment 00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:05.240 in that. Uh, and so, man, that's a great way to ground the message just for us to collectively learn 00:54:05.240 --> 00:54:13.400 how to, to find that why and then custom design what we're doing in context of our communication, 00:54:13.400 --> 00:54:17.800 whether it's with teaching, uh, whether it's through the chat host or, or whether through this, 00:54:17.800 --> 00:54:22.600 you know, the stage presentations to aim and direct the online audience to the why. 00:54:23.000 --> 00:54:27.240 So, man, uh, Ben, thanks for, you know, landing the plane right there and helping us keep focused 00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:33.000 on that. Um, Hey, this has been a great, uh, time with you and you know what, we're gonna have to do 00:54:33.000 --> 00:54:39.160 it again. I'm sure at some point, because I just like hanging out with you and, uh, you bring a lot of 00:54:39.160 --> 00:54:43.720 knowledge to the, to the table and a lot of experience, uh, through, uh, liquid through 00:54:43.720 --> 00:54:49.400 Christ fellowship and others. So thanks for joining us once again. And, uh, for the audience out there, 00:54:49.400 --> 00:54:55.880 thanks again. Uh, next podcast is coming up. So stay tuned for that. And until then, uh, 00:54:55.880 --> 00:54:59.640 my name is Jeff with the church digital. Thanks for being here.